From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  1 00:18:26 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <199808312332.AA03433@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980831215121.16244E-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

Hello Allison,
 
> I meant simply:
> 
> >>>B MKA0  <cr>
> 
> It could be any device from 0->7.

OK, I have tried >>>B MKAn for values 0->7 and ended with a quick 84 FAIL 
in each instance.

Likewise, I have tried >>>B MUAn for the same values with the same 
results, excepting n=0.  In that instance, I first see the 

-MUA0 

displayed and sometime later:

%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL              ^^^

In this case, however, ^ this value is different from the other instances. 
  
> < By the way, about how long should the boot from tape take, and what are
> < the TK50Z indications that it is 'doing its thing'?  I tend to assume
> < that the flashing green LED means that it is reading.
> 
> Assume slow, slow, slow.
> 
> < ??  1  00C0  0000.7004                *** WHAT IS THIS??? ***
> 
> Unterminated ethernet (BNC)?

Likely so, as it is not terminated.
 
> <    TPC      0202.0001       
> <       FFFFFF03 01000001 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFF
> 
> those ending on 05 are not occupied scsi addresses.
> 
> I believe the one that comes up ffffff03 is the tape, the 010000001 is a 
> new one on me.
> 
> All the other tests I'm ingoring right now.  Try the TK50 again with the 
> SCSI tape disconnected and see that the pattern is. It should all be 
> xxxxxxx05.  Also I think the default address for the tape is 7 not 0.

I tried it with the T 50 disconnected and the change was that the 
01000001 value became FFFFFF05 also.  With it connected but powered down, 
I got FFFFFF03 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF ...

Right now, I am trying again to boot from the TK50 after setting MUA0 as 
default via T 51.  I entered just 'B', and it has tried -DUA0, -MUA0, -ESA0, 
?54 RETRY, and is now on ESA0 again.  I'm not sure how long this will go 
on, but it looks like it is skipping MUA0 on this go round.  Yes, it is. 
It is cycling between -ESA0 and ?54RETRY.

Could the TK50 drive itself be faulty, or d\the tapes themselves?

						 - don



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep  1 00:54:58 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980831225458.038febb0@agora.rdrop.com>

Hmmm...  Ok, based on what information was forwarded to me (thanks, and you
know who you are!) the box is not all what it appears to be.  It does
appear that the box contains one set of original LISA parts (two eproms and
a state machine) which I'll have to figure out what to do with (lots of
folks wanted some, and now it seems I only have one) and a LOT of sets of
other parts.

Can anyone put meaning to these?

Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
           342-0134A  (???)
           342-0133A  (???)
and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)

My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep  1 00:21:05 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
References: <m0zDZO7-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35EB8441.E77F78E4@cnct.com>

Tony Duell wrote:

> The TRS-80 floppy drives are standard. Just about anything, including PC
> 360K and 720K drives will work. The cable is straight-through and you set
> the links to select which drive each one is (well, unless you use that
> crazy Tandy cable with the pins removed...

Tony, setting the drive addresses by pulling pins from the cable
might be the smartest thing Tandy ever did from the point of view
of somebody who did tech support for them for half a decade.  If
there'd been some way to put the termination resistor in the cable
it would have been even better.  Remember, the TRS-80 later called
the Model One really _was_ the first computer marketed to the
ignorant masses, long before "the rest of us" became a slogan.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From red at bears.org  Tue Sep  1 00:37:54 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: old magazines
In-Reply-To: <IIIIIBAGHILFHAAA@my-dejanews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809010133140.5595-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Tony Dellett wrote:

> I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine
> called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was
> in high school.

I don't have any of the magazines, but I did find another publication of
theirs in a pile of Kaypro docs I recently got.

"Kaypro 84 Theory of Operation", (c)1984 Micro Cornucopia. By Eric Roby.
Includes block diagram and schematic.

How serendipitous. (:

Actually, this gives me another idea.

More in a bit...

ok
r.



From red at bears.org  Tue Sep  1 00:50:05 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Docs archive
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809010137570.5595-100000@instinct.bears.org>


My collection of documentation has taken a dramatic upturn in the last few
weeks. It just occurred to me that I could have the very thing somebody's
looking for. Who knows?

So, in an attempt to be unselfish, I am going to catalogue the docs I have
available and make information from them available to anybody needing it.
Just ask. 

And, for the record, I'll try to be quicker than I have been getting that
CT Voice Processor manual copied and mailed to Sam. (:

I'll make the listing available at

http://www.slash.net/predicate/

Hope it'll be useful!

ok
r.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 02:12:50 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980831225458.038febb0@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901000957.2730A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:

> Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
>            342-0134A  (???)
>            342-0133A  (???)
> and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
> 
> My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
> to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
> deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...

The Apple //gs is circa 1986, but the Lisa is circa 1982/83.  So they are
most likely Lisa parts.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Sep  1 02:25:01 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <199809010725.RAA02916@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 04:26 PM 31-08-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:

>Use Linux instead.  Its far less picky about its hardware (and a whole
>lot more stable too, not to mention just a better OS).

I wouldn't be so sure. Linux will stress a system far more than
W3.11/WFWG/W95 will. I've experienced a number of systems that would quite
happily run BGP (Bill Gate's Products) that wouldn't reliably run Linux.
Typically the problem is memory that is marginal and is quite often seen as
compile errors (especially rebuilding kernels).

However, I must admit that I never have problems with stability of either
of linux or NT....

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 02:32:40 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901000957.2730A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 1, 98 00:12:50 am
Message-ID: <199809010732.BAA15289@calico.litterbox.com>

> On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:
> 
> > Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
> >            342-0134A  (???)
> >            342-0133A  (???)
> > and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
> > 
> > My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
> > to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
> > deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...
> 
> The Apple //gs is circa 1986, but the Lisa is circa 1982/83.  So they are
> most likely Lisa parts.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 
I suspect these are apple2e upgrade roms.  The upgrades to make a 2e into an
enhanced 2e included 3 roms and a new CPU.  These may be the leftovers.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 06:29:24 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Pascal Micro Engines 
Message-ID: <199809010912.LAA08827@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> See my web page for a history of the UCSD P-System.
>>Hmm letmesee... only Pascal ?  What about the otherlanguages ?
> 
> I don't think I have any other languages for my Terak's
> P-System, and I don't know much about who developed those...
> Did UCSD develop any beyond Pascal?

At least Fortran and Basic - While the Basic compiler
never got wide usage, the Fortran was quite popular
among the number crunchers to get some of their
apps running on the A2


Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 06:50:19 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
Message-ID: <ee4569ec.35ebdf7b@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-01 03:35:51 EDT, you write:

<< > On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:
 > 
 > > Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
 > >            342-0134A  (???)
 > >            342-0133A  (???)
 > > and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
 > > 
 > > My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
 > > to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
 > > deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982... >>

these are the chips needed to turn an original apple //e into an enhanced //e
model.  

david


From museum at techniche.com  Tue Sep  1 07:15:31 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: old computers
Message-ID: <199809011215.IAA13948@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Where are you located?

Regards,

Jon
---------------------------------

>We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them?
>Marvin J. Wakoff
>Wakoff, Andriulli & Co.
>mwakoff@njcpa.com
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
><META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>We have some old 486 computers that we
don't use 
>anymore. Can you use them?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Marvin J. Wakoff<BR>Wakoff, Andriulli &amp; 
>Co.<BR><A 
>href="mailto:mwakoff@njcpa.com">mwakoff@njcpa.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></
HTML>
>



From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 09:51:38 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Deja vu
Message-ID: <199809011235.OAA05144@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>Give me a break! 

>> Plus, I would guess some of the parts they are using are old.
>>I have the feeling cracked seals could once again be the
>>problem."

> Could it be because they don't know how to built a rocket today?

But maybe it's only because they do (and design) today
everything in the ISO 900x way - Documentation is everything,
personal engagment and responsibility is nothing. Just keep
in mind, 900x evolved from several rules inside the military/
supply industry to avoide any responibility for failure
(tecnical/cost).

Gruss
H.

(Sorry, to go off topic so fast, but I belive we need no
mysterious conspiracy to describe the world, we have more
than enough buerocracy and incompetence)



--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 10:19:20 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Ataris
Message-ID: <199809011302.PAA06632@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> At 10:31 PM 8/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Yeah, I know a number of musicians using STs in preference to more
>>modern PC VESA/PCI sound cards -- there is some program out of
>>Germany (dongle protected) that apparently has yet to be equalled on
>>Wintel platforms.

> Probably Cubase -- which I would be using if a) I had and money, b) I had
> any talent, and c) I had any time.  Cubase Audio for the Falcon (68030)
> offered (iirc) 8 or 16 track digital recording straight out of the box.
> Serious digital recording & MIDI for around a grand.  (Used Falcon, Cubase,
> and a big hard drive.)

> Also, there are ST clones available from (iirc) Canada and/or Germany with
> fast 68060 processors, tower cases, IDE and SCSI support, true
> multi-tasking, etc.  The Medusa, if I recall correctly.  

In fact there are 3 major NEW designs ST compatible computers in
Europe: Hades, Medusa and Milan (1 French and 2 German), and several
small size efforts based on refitet Falcon Boards.

The Milan for examlpe, the newest ST successor is available since
3 month. A 68040/33 MHz (060/80MHz within the next 3 Month), up to
512 MB RAM, 4 PCI, 3 ISA slots, 2 IDE ports, etc. Of course GEM
and TOS in ROM (or to be exact FLASH) - The Milan Computersysteme
GmbH ownes now all legal rights for the TOS/GEM ROMs - now in
version 4.5 (an enhanced 3.x like on the Falcon). Eventualy they
licenced the new PCI-BIOS to all other ST compatible manufacturers
virtualy for free. A multitasking OS is also includest

And the best of all: A basic configuration (Milan 040, 1 GB HD,
16 MB RAM, 2 MB Trio V64+ Video, Midi tower, PC-Keyboard, Mouse
and some SW) is just DM 1499,- (including tax) thats something
like USD 750,- (without tax). Incredible cheap - A Mac Performa
630 (040/33Mhz) is used still something like USD 400.

There an enormus power alive in the european ST family.

(oops, again off topic, but I still like ATARI :)

> And, while we're on the subject, anyone get to the World of Atari in Las
> Vegas last weekend?

Any URL for a report _with_ info ?

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep  1 08:38:51 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980901083851.00cd3ac0@pc>

At 04:26 PM 8/31/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote:
>
>> WinNT is quite stable.  I've been running it for years - since 3.0,
>> I think, under heavy daily software development. 
>
>Use Linux instead.  Its far less picky about its hardware (and a whole
>lot more stable too, not to mention just a better OS).

Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
pay for software.

I use Linux alot, but not for running Microsoft products or Windows code.
All my firewalls and source code servers are Linux.  The SGI version
of my product easily recompiles and runs under Linux and X Window.
We used it occasionally to use Checker and Electric Fence for debugging.

I've got hundreds of unsold CDs of a Linux-based 3D product in the 
basement, left over from when my company was acquired.  I'll gladly 
send a CD of it for free to anyone in the world who wants to send me 
a piece of old computer junk or software in trade.  See my web page
to see what I like.

(See a description of Megahedron 
at http://www.threedee.com/mhedron/mhedron.htm>, 
and download a free, fully functional demo for Win95/NT x86 and AXP, 
Linux and SGI IRIX from <http://www.threedee.com/demos/demos.html>.)

Frankly, Linux doesn't fit under the ten-year-rule.  We'll need to
wait until 2003 for that.  Sure, it might run on old PCs, though.

- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>



From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com  Tue Sep  1 11:18:55 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
In-Reply-To: <8749@ifrsys.com>
Message-ID: <199809011426.JAA26620@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com>

Guys:

I just snarfed some PC-jr modules:

2 - 128k Ram expansion
1 - Parallel printer module
1 - Speech Module

I cut open the speech and printer modules, and they seem to be
in pretty good shape, although I don't know if any of this 
stuff actually works.

If this is of any value to anyone, I'll offer it for trade for
something interesting (I collect mostly Motorola related stuff),
or some reasonable $$.

PLease reply via private e-mail.

Thanx,

Jeff




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 09:37:41 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
Message-ID: <19980901143741.9803.qmail@hotmail.com>





However, Linux can do some things on a 386 while NT will barely run.
I would expect that NT may have some bugs that cause, say, divide by
zeros on certain hardware. It's very difficult for Linux to have a
bug last very long. I have never had any problems running Linux but
I stil can't get it to install on some machines because of crappy
distributions. I'll do it manually soon enough...
>
>I wouldn't be so sure. Linux will stress a system far more than
>W3.11/WFWG/W95 will. I've experienced a number of systems that would 
quite
>happily run BGP (Bill Gate's Products) that wouldn't reliably run 
Linux.
>Typically the problem is memory that is marginal and is quite often 
seen as
>compile errors (especially rebuilding kernels).
>
>However, I must admit that I never have problems with stability of 
either
>of linux or NT....
>
> Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
> Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 
9479
>1999
> La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in 
the
> Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep  1 10:55:02 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980901083851.00cd3ac0@pc>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com> <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]>

>Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
>pay for software.

At the moment I see this as being the chief problem.  There are a few
people that are willing to pay for stuff.  Part of the problem is the stuff
you get for free is better quality in a lot of cases that what you pay for.
In that respect it rememinds me of OS/2, every commercial App I ever bought
for OS/2 except the one game I got, was of worse quality than the free
stuff.

I buy software all the time for the Mac, but the only commercial software
I've for Linux, with the exception of the backup software has gone unused
except for a brief tryout.

Note, I'm not commenting on the Linux software you mentioned trying to
sell, as I've never seen or heard of it.

>Frankly, Linux doesn't fit under the ten-year-rule.  We'll need to
>wait until 2003 for that.  Sure, it might run on old PCs, though.

Now this statement has a problem, namely that we only need to wait till
2001 for it to fall under the 10-year rule (I've been actively running it
since January '91).  Got to agree that for the most part it's only
applicable to talk about it in respect to running it on old computers, OR
using it to tie old computers together (one of my uses).

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep  1 10:51:02 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
Message-ID: <199809011551.AA25779@world.std.com>

Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From franzese at att.com  Tue Sep  1 11:51:29 1998
From: franzese at att.com (Franzese, G R (Robert), NPG  NCIO)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Old Computer
Message-ID: <65A5FB4B6023D211AEA30000C059F2F94E5521@njb140po01.ems.att.com>

I have a Heath-Zenith Z90 CPM based computer, and am looking for a home for
it. Can you help?

Bob Franzese


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Tue Sep  1 12:08:01 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Old Computer
In-Reply-To: <65A5FB4B6023D211AEA30000C059F2F94E5521@njb140po01.ems.att.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980901100709.26395C-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Tell people where you are located.  If your next door somebody will
probably help you.  Don't live near Portland Oregon do you?

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Franzese, G R (Robert), NPG  NCIO wrote:

> I have a Heath-Zenith Z90 CPM based computer, and am looking for a home for
> it. Can you help?
> 
> Bob Franzese
> 



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 12:42:43 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
Message-ID: <19980901174243.2001.qmail@hotmail.com>

Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
test this thing before shipping it.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  1 14:20:57 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
	 com> <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc> <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]>
Message-ID: <35EC4918.D1272E7C@bbtel.com>

Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
> >pay for software.
>
> At the moment I see this as being the chief problem.  There are a few
> people that are willing to pay for stuff.  Part of the problem is the stuff
> you get for free is better quality in a lot of cases that what you pay for.
> In that respect it rememinds me of OS/2, every commercial App I ever bought
> for OS/2 except the one game I got, was of worse quality than the free
> stuff.

The same uusally is true for BBS programs as well. One good example is Maximus
- free to general users and a great program with plentyu of support and in many
OS versions. Then take a pay BBS - ProBoard...Phillipe Lebeyart has promised a
32 bit OS version for 3 years now, and has finally dropped out of it without
even a good beta.

Not saying ALL free BBS programs are good or ALL pay ones are bad. Mustang puts
out a good product as well as the makers of PCboard. The problem is that when
you call it a pay bbs, you mean it's a PAY BBS, not cheap in the least - but
worth it if that's what you need.
Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org  Tue Sep  1 14:42:55 1998
From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <35EC4918.D1272E7C@bbtel.com> from Russ Blakeman at "Sep 1, 98 02:20:57 pm"
Message-ID: <199809011942.PAA13483@pechter.dyn.ml.org>

> Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
> over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
> Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.

Debian Linux is one of the newer distributions...

Behind Tamu SLS, Slackware, RedHat.  Ahead of Stallion, SuSe.

I've heard good things about it.

I still use mostly Slackware since I started with SLS.
However, I've installed RedHat and found it ok on most systems.

My favorite Unix install is FreeBSD.

Bill



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  1 15:07:58 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
References: <199809011942.PAA13483@pechter.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <35EC541D.7144FA0@bbtel.com>

Bill Pechter wrote:

> > Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
> > over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
> > Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.
>
> Debian Linux is one of the newer distributions...
>
> Behind Tamu SLS, Slackware, RedHat.  Ahead of Stallion, SuSe.
>
> I've heard good things about it.
>
> I still use mostly Slackware since I started with SLS.
> However, I've installed RedHat and found it ok on most systems.
>
> My favorite Unix install is FreeBSD.
>
> Bill

I'll have to try it after I get some clear time in a little while. THX
--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Tue Sep  1 15:41:05 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


Hey, my Mac 512K is now working!

In fact, I'm using it to type this message.

Instead of going out hunting for more expensive connectors, I decided to
use a dead C64 for parts.  I pulled a male 9-pin D connector out of there,
and while I was doing so, I also noticed that the C64 cartridge connector
might be useful for repairing my TS1016 memory cartridge for my Sinclair.

I don't think I'll go to hell for cannibalizing a C64.  Besides, C64s are
cheaper than the useful salvageable parts inside.

Anyhow... I made a Macintosh to Amiga mouse adapter.  I got the two
X-direction wires switched around the first time, but it's all working
now.  I decided to use the lessons from the Laser 3000 and I poured hot
glue onto the wires after they were all soldered into place, so that the
thing is rigid, and then I wrapped it in electrical tape. :)

So my Macintosh is presently using a two-button 'Pregnant' Amiga mouse.  I
should try the three-button optical mouse, but what would be the use of
having TWO useless buttons? :)

This is also giving me a chance to try out that old 1200bps Apple modem I
pulled out of the Goodwill a couple of months back.  Obviously it works
pretty well!  But I'm not used to this level of slowness anymore.

I'm also not used to using Pico without arrow keys.  Who's idea was it to
use ^B, ^F, ^P, and ^N anyway?  Couldn't they have at least arranged the
keys in some sensible manner?

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out how to configure the Option
key to work as Control, too.

I don't know what I'll do if I have to use ESC for anything.

Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/

Anyhow, I'm glad to see this thing works.  Eventually I'll get around to
fixing the real Macintosh mouse.

Now... my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?

And what about that MacSnap SCSI board?  Do I need special drivers for it
or something?  I can't get it to see my Zip drive.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc




From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 15:58:23 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 1, 98 07:55:02 am
Message-ID: <199809012058.OAA19739@calico.litterbox.com>

OT - Linux apps.  I've bought 1 commercial linux app, and I strongly recommend
it to all you folk running Unix (or VMS, I think) on classic machines (woohoo,
a tiein back on topic. :) - it's called Dnews.  It runs on windows, Unix
, OS/2, Mac, Novell Netware, VMS, etc, according to their web site.

It's not cheap.  My two user licence cost me about 200 bucks... but it sets up
in 5 minutes.  Honest.  And it's solid and reliable, and I have no regrets
whatever.  It can do both IHAVE and multiple site suck feeding, lots of other
cool stuff.

Their web site is http://netwinsite.com.  Note that they also have VERY
nice educational discounts on some of their products, including a 100%
discount for universities and schools using Dnews for non-profit 
activities.  

My only problem with this software is what happens when the clock gets munged
(as happens on my somewhat elderly linux box from time to time) - if it
goes before the beginning of the license, you have to reinstall the license
to make it work again.  KEEP YOUR LICENSE INFORMATION HANDY. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 15:59:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Doug Spence wrote:

> I don't think I'll go to hell for cannibalizing a C64.  Besides, C64s are
> cheaper than the useful salvageable parts inside.

22 million C64s.  I don't think anyone will shed too many tears.

> I'm also not used to using Pico without arrow keys.  Who's idea was it to
> use ^B, ^F, ^P, and ^N anyway?  Couldn't they have at least arranged the
> keys in some sensible manner?

Maybe they developed it on a system with a Dvorak keyboard?

> Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/

If you never used PCs and didn't have to interface with systems that are
PC-based you wouldn't have need to complain.  As it is, most online
text-based apps assume a VT-100 style keyobard with CTRL and ALT keys (and
sometimes META too perhaps).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com  Tue Sep  1 18:00:34 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff 
In-Reply-To: <8756@ifrsys.com>
Message-ID: <199809012108.QAA28829@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com>

I don't think so.  These are add-on modules specifically
for the PC-jr.  I posted this because I'm pretty sure 
there are at least a couple of PC-jr fans out there.

Jeff

At 11:51 AM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?
>
>                                        Megan Gentry
>                                        Former RT-11 Developer
>
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
>| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
>| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
>| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
>| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
>| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> 



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 12:42:42 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
In-Reply-To: <35EB8441.E77F78E4@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Sep 1, 98 01:21:05 am
Message-ID: <m0zDuS7-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 17:46:04 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
Message-ID: <ee47c7c3.35ec792c@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-01 11:54:05 EDT, you write:

<< Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?
 
 					Megan Gentry
 					Former RT-11 Developer >>


no. totally incompatible. 


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep  1 17:55:51 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <8223357@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Doug Spence wrote:
my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?
--- end of quote ---

There are some adjustments you can do with plastic TV-tweaking tools (even demagnetized metal ones distort the display when they're near the board). The easy-to-reach ones are accessible from the solder-side of the analog board (there should be a white plastic sheet that tells you which controls are which). If those don't fix the problem, then you can cut away the blop of glue (more lessons from the L3K!) that's across the adjustment rings on the CRT yoke. Then you twist those rings (they have little "handles," sort of) and see what happens. However, the yoke IS dangerous, and of course you can't discharge it if you need to look at the screen, so watch out. Those rings are right near the Copper Wires o' Death.   :/

-- MB


From roblwill at usaor.net  Tue Sep  1 17:42:09 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
Message-ID: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net>

I used to have a Model 1.  I believe the logical answer for why Drive 0 was
at the beginning of the cable was do that it was the closest to the
computer, ant it would make it less confusing for novice computer users: 
Closest drive gets the boot disk.  

As for the drive with a resistor pack needing to be at the end of the
cable, I disagree.  I had a two-disk system, and both drives were
identical.  I know that, because when I first got the computer, I plugged
the drives in, turned them on, turned on the expansion box, and turned on
the computer, and they worked.  I tried the drives the other way (switched
them on the cable), and they still worked.  

I'm also sure that neither had the resistor pack, because when I got the
computer, it was supposed to have 4 drives.  There was, however, another
Model 1 with an expansion box, but no drives.  The person who was selling
the computers took drives 3 and 4 off of the one that I got, and put them
on the other one.  My friend bought it, and the drives worked on it, too.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
> Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 1:42 PM
> 
> It would have been a lot simpler if the connectors had been fitted in the

> opposite order so that drive 0 was at the end of the cable. Then the 
> terminated drive always would have gone at the end of the cable, and 
> would always have been Drive 0. No idea why they didn't do this.
> 
> -tony
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 17:37:23 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 1, 98 04:41:05 pm
Message-ID: <m0zDz3F-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Tue Sep  1 14:54:30 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: old computers
In-Reply-To: <000701bdd541$5ff193e0$1300a8c0@ibmp>
Message-ID: <199809012331.TAA22763@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:42:16 -0400
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Marvin" <mwakoff@njcpa.com>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       old computers
> X-To:          <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

> We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them?
> Marvin J. Wakoff
> Wakoff, Andriulli & Co.
> mwakoff@njcpa.com
> 
> 

Hi Marwin!

What exacty are these 486 boxens are?

branded or clones?  I'd like one if it has cache already maybe with
HD in it?

Thanks!

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep  1 18:54:54 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
References: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35EC894E.753CC1E5@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
 
> As for the drive with a resistor pack needing to be at the end of the
> cable, I disagree.  I had a two-disk system, and both drives were
> identical.  I know that, because when I first got the computer, I plugged
> the drives in, turned them on, turned on the expansion box, and turned on
> the computer, and they worked.  I tried the drives the other way (switched
> them on the cable), and they still worked.

The Model One was incredibly forgiving about the presence of the
termination pack.  I saw them work reliably with the terminator
missing, on the wrong drive, or doubled up.  Three was right out.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 19:06:39 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: trs80model1
Message-ID: <199809020006.SAA21009@calico.litterbox.com>

Ooo, TRS-80 model 1.  The first computer that ever inspired lust in my heart
 - I don't suppose these can be had inexpensively...
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From roblwill at usaor.net  Tue Sep  1 19:10:19 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: trs80model1
Message-ID: <199809020015.UAA17618@gate.usaor.net>

I got one with an expansion box, monitor, and 2 disk drives for $2.50.  I
also got a LOAD of software with it.  It was working fine 'till the monitor
blew.  I tried fixing it, and got it working, but it was a bit wavy.  Then
the P/S for the expansion unit blew, so I sold the whole deal for $20.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: trs80model1
> Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 8:06 PM
> 
> Ooo, TRS-80 model 1.  The first computer that ever inspired lust in my
heart
>  - I don't suppose these can be had inexpensively...
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 18:34:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
In-Reply-To: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 1, 98 06:42:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zDzwF-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 18:39:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <8223357@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 1, 98 06:55:51 pm
Message-ID: <m0zE00z-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep  1 19:54:26 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <980901205426.112@trailing-edge.com>

>at $ prompt type in drive name
>
>    $ DK0

What sort of media are you actually trying to boot?  Why do you think
it's got a valid boot-block?

>It now takes me back to the @ prompt.
>Type in 0g
>
>    @0g
>
>and I get 000002 back.
>I'm assuming that the '2' I get back is an error of some sort. Can anyone
>shed any light
>on this one for me.

Nope, it's not an error - it's the address the CPU stopped at.  It's
certainly the case that at address 0, there's a "HALT" instruction
(i.e. the contents are zero.)  This is very possibly because the boot
block you read into location 0 was all zeroes - i.e. not a boot block
at all.

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From jruschme at exit109.com  Tue Sep  1 20:16:36 1998
From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
In-Reply-To: <19980901174243.2001.qmail@hotmail.com> from Max Eskin at "Sep 1, 98 10:42:43 am"
Message-ID: <199809020116.VAA10326@crobin.home.org>

> Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
> for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
> test this thing before shipping it.

Interesting tidbit if you're looking for the old HITACHIA.SYS driver...

Apparenly one of Tandy's CD-ROM drives (CDR-1500, IIRC) uses the same driver
and is downloadable from their site.

<<<John>>>


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep  1 09:07:11 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
Message-ID: <35EBFF8F.5A66B13B@sprintmail.com>

Hello everyone,
    I am needing schematics for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
repairing it..
I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
damage..
I took it apart for a quick look expecting to find a burnt electrolyte
capacitor in the power supply but did not see any damage.. I am afraid
to power this unit up again for fear it will damage the mainboard.. Can
anyone help me this is one of the finest old computer I have ever owned
and I want to get it working again..

There must be someone that has schematics out there for it.. or maybe
someone can help me dx it..

Thank You.. Phil Clayton



From wpe101 at banet.net  Tue Sep  1 20:56:34 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP
Message-ID: <35ECA5D1.8EC5C991@banet.net>

Changing my ISP... Sprynet will be discontinued as of 23:59 30 Sep 1998.


Will




From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  1 21:53:32 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <006701bdd61d$185d3840$6753fea9@mainoffice>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:11 +1, "Hans Franke" <franke@sbs.de> wrote:

>>does anybody know who has right now the rights for
>>the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code?

>>Or more in general - is there any successor for
>>the Commodore Semiconductor divison ?

    I did some research on this about 18 months ago in preparation for
contacting Commodore's bankruptcy counsel to see about purchasing the rights
to Commodore's 8-bit technology.

    Even though I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan and Chapter 7
liquidation motion, and my corporate counsel looked at the docs, it's really
hard to trace the chain of asset transfers, since I could not find a
specific list of those assets sold; only broad "all intellectual property"
language was used.
    Collectively, Commodore's assets were sold to Escom (a German computer
manufacturer) for $14 million, $4 million of which realted to CBM and $10
million related to Commodore International Bahamas, Ltd. an affiliate of
CBM. The former CSG operation located at 950 Rittenhouse Road in Norristown
PA was purchased by GMT Microelectronics Corp., a company formed by former
CSG management in order to purchase the chip-making assets. The purchase
price was $4.3 million plus another $1 million to clear EPA liens. Assets
included the plant, equipment, other inventory items at that location. Last
year, I made a field trip to GMT and verified that they exist and are
operating out of the old CSG building.

    The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
(bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the old
8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>







From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 22:36:15 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP
In-Reply-To: <35ECA5D1.8EC5C991@banet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901203502.25082B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 wpe101@banet.net wrote:

> Changing my ISP... Sprynet will be discontinued as of 23:59 30 Sep 1998.

The proper method for subscribing is to send e-mail to

listproc@u.washington.edu

with the following in the BODY of the message:

subscribe classiccmp <yourname>

To unsubscribe:

unsubscribe classiccmp <yourname>

Again, in the BODY.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 22:41:25 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <19980827170343.0582a83c.in@mail.pressstart.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901224125.2fc781a6@intellistar.net>



At 04:29 PM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
> I see another rocket has blown up. 
> Looks like it's time to break out those
> desk top analog computers that got us
> into space the first time.

   Yeap, time to go back to using HP 9825s!  Seems like the fault in this
one was that they had the software for the OLD guidance system loaded!

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 22:51:59 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <87d2a7e2.35e60e7a@aol.com>>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net>

At 09:57 PM 8/27/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/27/98 9:03:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
>
>> 
>>  The Unimat (it's still being made) is a nice machine, but IMHO a little 
>>  small for the sort of things that I'm likely to need....
>>  
>
>i really dread continuing this off topic discussion, but american science and
>surplus (sciplus.com) sells the unimat 1 for $300. is it any good? 

  Not in my opinion,  they're a clever design but they're too small to make
anything other than pins and such and much too flimsy to make accurate
cuts. Weight & mass = stiffness = accurate cuts in a machine tool.  You're
much better off to find an old 6" lathe like a Logan, Atlas or a South
Bend.   I have a 12" lathe made in Mexico of all places but it's strong as
hell! Even the chip tray is solid cast iron.

  Joe

 





From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 23:11:41 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <199808281440.AA26604@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901231141.2fc78f9a@intellistar.net>

At 10:40 AM 8/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>"Max Eskin" <maxeskin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess
>>some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked
>>seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on
>>computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely
>>they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car.
>
>Actually, from the news report I heard, it was a new launch vehicle.
>The maiden flight... That doesn't contradict the idea it may be old
>technology, but supposedly the vehicle was one of a new series...

   It was a new vehicle.  But they used guidance software from the old
vehicle and the software could handle the inputs from the new system and
crashed. The rocket did the same shortly thereafter.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 23:22:36 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <199808281816.AA09241@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901232236.2fc78374@intellistar.net>

At 02:16 PM 8/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
>> Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution 
>> sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: 
>> freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent 
>> Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the 
>> invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by 
>> Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in 
>> interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living 
>> breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need 
>> interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped.
>
>I may be naive, but I understand that the satellite was owned by
>a connecticut company who was have it launched to replace the one
>which went bad earlier this year, knocking out millions of pagers,
>etc.

   Nope.  Wrong.  It was a spy satellite.  Years ago, most spy satellites
were launched from Vandenburg but more and more of them are being launched
from KSC.  It's supposed to take a year or more to replace the failed
communications satellite.  They've moved some some others around in their
orbits to provide temporary coverage for the failed one.

  Joe



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Tue Sep  1 23:30:17 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>



 Today I saved from the mythical Company Dumpster the following Stuff:


 DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.

 Printronix P 300 Line Printer  (from long-gone Prime Mainframe)

             Hewlett Packard :

 (2) 7914 disk drive units, one damaged in fall.

 An HP Systems cab with (1) 9144 and (2) 3000.

 (1) 2563A LIne Printer. (Very nice condition)


  Heads Up part:  I do not particularly want the HP stuff, I took it 
to be nice to the warehouse foreman (to whom it's just junk he has to 
move around).

  SoCal area HP collectors....  any Interest???  Anyone? I have more 
than my share of non-DEC orpans now...   heeellpppp....   


  WANTS: Unibus 9trk formatter card for Kennedy 9300, or preferably 
a TE16 and cards in SoCal or thereabouts.  Need vacuum column door 
for abovementione Kennedy... or a whole 'nother drive... I'm not picky.

  MINC stuff.   FSW Votrax (commercial Version) for PDP-11.

  An 11/750 w/magtape....  ?


   Cheers

  John



From aaronwa at telusplanet.net  Tue Sep  1 23:45:15 1998
From: aaronwa at telusplanet.net (Aaron Michael Walkhouse)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980901224125.2fc781a6@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <199809020442.VAA05138@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

>-----Original Message-----
>From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
>[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Joe
>Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 4:41 PM
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: Deja vu
>
>At 04:29 PM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> I see another rocket has blown up.
>> Looks like it's time to break out those
>> desk top analog computers that got us
>> into space the first time.
>
>   Yeap, time to go back to using HP 9825s!  Seems like the fault in this
>one was that they had the software for the OLD guidance system loaded!

D'oh!  You'd think that after The Famous Ariane 5 Fireball that every launch
since would have that checked as part of the countdown.
That one was way too spectacular to forget.




From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  1 23:44:11 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980901214029.1497A-100000@crash.cts.com>


 
I decided to run a number of different tapes to try to determine whether
my TK50Z drive was defective or the tapes were not bootable.  Below are
the results of the tests.  Since in each case the results are somewhat
different, I conclude that the drive reads OK, and that the tapes are
suspect.  Does anyone have a different perspective?
 
                                              - don
=======================
 
ULTRIX APPLICATION TAPE
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-SCBINT2, PC = 00007000, PSL = 041F0008
 
 83 BOOT SYS
-DUA0
 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-SCBINT2, PC = 00007000, PSL = 041F0008
 
 83 BOOT SYS
?02 EXT HLT                   **** Infinite loop without the halt ****
    PC = 00002704
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> VMS APP TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> DEGAUSSED TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000001F6
 84 FAIL
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> VMS 5.5 BIN TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> 
 
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL
>>>
 
Thats all folks!
 
 



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 01:25:48 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>
Message-ID: <v04011706b2129494d7e5@[192.168.1.2]>

> DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.

You sure this is an RC?  The only way it would be an RC from my
understanding is if it's a VAXstation II/RC.  Three of the slots in the
backplane have been filled with Rosen, so you can't use them.  It was DEC's
idea of a "Reduced Cost" system.  The RC should be in a BA23.  Of course I
guess it would be possible to hack something like that together, after all
I've pulled out the video card on mine so I can plug a RL02 controller in
(I've actually got a non-crippled backplane for it, just haven't bothered
to put it in).

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 01:28:41 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980901214029.1497A-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b212959714b4@[192.168.1.2]>

>
>I decided to run a number of different tapes to try to determine whether
>my TK50Z drive was defective or the tapes were not bootable.  Below are
>the results of the tests.  Since in each case the results are somewhat
>different, I conclude that the drive reads OK, and that the tapes are
>suspect.  Does anyone have a different perspective?
>

Don,
Do you have any tapes that say anything about Standalone backup?  I don't
know about Ultrix, but with VMS you've first got to boot Standalone backup
and the use it to load VMS.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 05:57:10 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809020840.KAA17685@marina.fth.sbs.de>

One more question:

Does anyone know any technical dokumentation for the
TI PC-234 printer and/or the TI-74 interface ? I couldn't
find any usefull trace in the web.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 05:57:10 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:11 +1, "Hans Franke" <franke@sbs.de> wrote:
>>>does anybody know who has right now the rights for
>>>the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code?

>>>Or more in general - is there any successor for
>>>the Commodore Semiconductor divison ?

>     I did some research on this about 18 months ago in preparation for
> contacting Commodore's bankruptcy counsel to see about purchasing the rights
> to Commodore's 8-bit technology.

>     Even though I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan and Chapter 7
> liquidation motion, and my corporate counsel looked at the docs, it's really
> hard to trace the chain of asset transfers, since I could not find a
> specific list of those assets sold; only broad "all intellectual property"
> language was used.

>     Collectively, Commodore's assets were sold to Escom (a German computer
> manufacturer) for $14 million, $4 million of which realted to CBM and $10
> million related to Commodore International Bahamas, Ltd. an affiliate of
> CBM. The former CSG operation located at 950 Rittenhouse Road in Norristown
> PA was purchased by GMT Microelectronics Corp., a company formed by former
> CSG management in order to purchase the chip-making assets. The purchase
> price was $4.3 million plus another $1 million to clear EPA liens. Assets
> included the plant, equipment, other inventory items at that location. Last
> year, I made a field trip to GMT and verified that they exist and are
> operating out of the old CSG building.

Did you talk to them ? Their website (http://www.gmtme.com/index.html)
presents only a few new products - noting of the old stuff.

>     The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
> (bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
> company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
> Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the old
> 8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
> Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
> knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.

I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
other soft ?

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 04:22:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902022043.26255A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
> toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
> manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
> the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
> other soft ?

Us.

(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  2 04:40:54 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: Free stuff in the UK
In-Reply-To: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Not me, this guy:

<<
Subject: 
            Free old computer bits
       Date: 
            24 Aug 1998 00:00:00 GMT
       From: 
            markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Mark Carroll)
Organization: 
            Linux Unlimited
 Newsgroups: 
            uk.local.southwest, uk.adverts.computer, cam.misc
 Followup-To: 
            poster


Free to anyone who can collect from St Austell, Cornwall:

Nice working dual-drive ICL computer system with CP/M disks and faulty
dot-matrix printer

8086 IBM PC 'portable' - heavy as a sewing machine! 20Mb hard drive,
works.
circa 1985?

Commodore stuff - working and broken Commodore PETs, nice dual PET disk
drive, maybe a couple of borken Commodore 64's...

BBC Micro with teletext adaptor - mostly working, but keyboard needs 
repair or replacement

cam.misc cross-post: if anyone in Cambridge wants any of this, I may
be able to arrange for it to be brought up for free.

-- Mark
>>




From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  2 04:48:38 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: COSMAC user needs help
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902044639.197E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

<<
Roger Lamson <rlamson@snds.com>
San Diego, CA USA - Tuesday, September 01, 1998 at 12:39:56

     We have some old 1802 source code that was not documented, 
     now we need to "reverse" engineer this code and develop 
     flow charts so that we can then implement the correct algoithms
     in a new processor.
     Is there a cosmac 1802 users group out there?
     Is there a development system, UT20 from RCA out there?
     Thanks
>>

I'd offer this guy my COSMAC ICE, but currently I have no way to verify
that it works (i.e., I haven't built my COSMAC ELF yet :-)

-- Doug



From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 08:05:31 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021048.MAA27242@marina.fth.sbs.de>

 
>> I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
>> toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
>> manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
>> the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
>> other soft ?

> Us.

*g*
Toys R Us !

> (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

Still searching
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 08:22:59 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: COSMAC user needs help
Message-ID: <199809021106.NAA17440@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> <<
> Roger Lamson <rlamson@snds.com>
> San Diego, CA USA - Tuesday, September 01, 1998 at 12:39:56
>      We have some old 1802 source code that was not documented, 
>      now we need to "reverse" engineer this code and develop 
>      flow charts so that we can then implement the correct algoithms
>      in a new processor.
>      Is there a cosmac 1802 users group out there?
>      Is there a development system, UT20 from RCA out there?
>      Thanks
> >>
> I'd offer this guy my COSMAC ICE, but currently I have no way to verify
> that it works (i.e., I haven't built my COSMAC ELF yet :-)

In fact, I still have a group of RCA tapes with an cross
assembler and other tools (for /360 compatible RCA Mainframe :)
- We just need one of these 1966..75 build dinosaurs.

Or to be more constructive, I'm still able to read and write
1802 Assm (or at least I belive to be - it's some years ago :).
Writing 'modern' Assemblers (Z80, x86, MIPS, ARM etc.) isn't
tragic at all. 

I'm just a bit far away from SD.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Wed Sep  2 07:36:10 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980902123610Z-131757@exchange01.hersheys.com>

I thought I was the only one who owned a TI-74. I'm looking for the
specs too. TI does mention some authorized service centers on their web
page for the TI-74. I haven't got a chance to contact any of them for
information.

Check out:  http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/7495.htm

Jeff Salzman
----------------------------
Zu denken ist gut, da=DF Sie sind gut

>
>Does anyone know any technical dokumentation for the
>TI PC-234 printer and/or the TI-74 interface ? I couldn't
>find any usefull trace in the web.
>


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Wed Sep  2 07:44:39 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FREE Texas Instuments VDT
Message-ID: <35ED3DB6.20F11080@bbtel.com>

I have just had laid on me a very nice condition (from a bank) texas
Instruments model 911 VDT video display unit. I only have the screen
unit, no keyboard. It has two jacks on back, one marked keyboard and one
marked controller (9 pin male d-sub)

FREE to anyone that wants it, you pay the shipping of about 30 lbs. I
need to hear from people soon on it or it will go dumpster diving and
not come up for air. As it is I still have the Visual 102 (complete) and
DEC VT100 (no keyboard) to GIVE AWAY and the last inquiring mind never
got back with me. These are also in great condition and working order
and available for the cost of shipping.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 10:35:11 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809021318.PAA20842@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I thought I was the only one who owned a TI-74. I'm looking for the
> specs too. TI does mention some authorized service centers on their web
> page for the TI-74. I haven't got a chance to contact any of them for
> information.

I have one, and 4 spare printers (fleamarket haul).

> Check out:  http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/7495.htm

Marysville, WA is kind of down under from Muenchen, Bavaria :)

> ----------------------------
> Zu denken ist gut, dass Sie sind gut
:))
Knapp daneben ist auch vorbei.

Altavista or German lessons ?

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep  2 09:27:06 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902022043.26255A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980902092706.00c82e50@pc>

At 02:22 AM 9/2/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>Us.
>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

I wonder if there is legal precedent that might establish a reasonable
level of due diligence to determine that a copyright asset has indeed
been abandoned, and a legitimate method by which someone else could
be considered at least allowed to reproduce it but perhaps not claim
ownership of it.  In short, a process to follow that would establish
that something is on its way to becoming public domain.  Without
preservation now, the asset might be truly lost.

For example, I've contacted several authors of early computer books 
who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
floppies that had held his manuscript.

- John



From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Wed Sep  2 09:45:17 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FW: Freebies available! Santa Fe, NM (I think)
References: <01bdd62d$f7f45820$df733bc6@pilar>
Message-ID: <35ED59FD.A1472A0@my-dejanews.com>

Looks like a good bunch of DEC freebies (at least to non-profit folks)
available in Santa Fe, NM (at least if the Santa Fe Institute moniker is
any indication). Please contact this fellow directly if interested.

-=-=- <snip> -=-=-

From: 
                 "Phillip Williams" <phdevaxvms@roadrunner.com>
       Newsgroups: 
                 comp.sys.dec
          Subject: 
                 its that time again
            Date: 
                 2 Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT
       Organization: 
                 Santa Fe Institute
            Lines: 
                 20
       Message-ID: 
                 <01bdd62d$f7f45820$df733bc6@pilar>
 NNTP-Posting-Host: 
                 dial531.roadrunner.com
         X-Trace: 
                 santaclara.santafe.edu 904712691 23951 209.12.73.131 (2
Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT)
   X-Complaints-To: 
                 abuse@santafe.edu
 NNTP-Posting-Date: 
                 2 Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT
      X-Newsreader: 
                 Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
            Path: 
                
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.fiber.net!news-stk-2.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.128.37.8!feeder.lobo.net!feeder.swcp.com!fugu!SantaFe!not-for-mail




well its time to  go thru and sell or trade some stuff
RA92 qty 4
LN03Rs qty 2
DECstations 5000 qty 2
VT1300 qty 2
VT240 with modem (wow 1200 bps) qty 2
RX33 qty 4
BA200 with  16 megs KA650, QDSS, KDA50,CXA16,TK70,  2 RA70s with
OpenVMS 5.5-2 DECwindows/DECwrite/C/BASIC/FORTRAN/KERMIT
Once again if you are a none profit org and can arrange for pickup its
free and if you are a Homeless vet center then I'll pick up the price!!!

phillip
AfterMidNight BBS
56k connection with v90 with 30 megs of disk space and free web pages

IF YOU KNOW OF ANY VET THATS HOMELESS OR JUST DOWN AND
OUT WE OFFER FREE RESUME AND INTERNET ACCESS.


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 10:05:26 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: <v04011706b2129494d7e5@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809020739.A19410-0100000@netcom6>



On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> > DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.
> 
> You sure this is an RC?  The only way it would be an RC from my
> understanding is if it's a VAXstation II/RC.  Three of the slots in the


  (clip)

  That's what the little badge says above the switches....  I 
haven't had time to look in the computer yet...  the back panel has 
the ethernet port and 8 serial connectors, and ribbons for the 
Cipher. I didn't get the model of the cabinet, but it's 4' high and 
the uVax is mounted on rack rails on it's side under the magtape. 
Nothing alse in the cabinet but the power controller.


  Any HP afficianados out there...  I am really curious to see what 
thes various things do... I have noknowledge of the computing side 
of HP, though I have used (and own) tons of their test gear.

[ HP 7914 disk, 3000s, etc...]


   Cheers

John



From fmc at reanimators.org  Wed Sep  2 09:57:11 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: John Lawson's message of Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
References: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>
Message-ID: <199809021457.HAA24441@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

John Lawson <jpl15@netcom.com> wrote:
>  (2) 7914 disk drive units, one damaged in fall.

I'm thinking these are largish floor-standing units (about half
washing-machine size) good for about 120MB.  They could have cartridge
tape drives in them too, do they?

>  An HP Systems cab with (1) 9144 and (2) 3000.

9144 is an HP cartridge tape drive.

A 3000 in that sort of cabinet is probably a Series 37 or Micro 3000,
a little departmental system good for about eight terminals.  Should
have a key for the front panel and I hope it's there because
fabricating it could be a problem (it is a small metal strip with
indentations drilled in but not through its larger faces).

>  (1) 2563A LIne Printer. (Very nice condition)

300LPM printer, could be serial or HP-IB or maybe parallel (with a
50-pin telco connector) though I only remember the parallel on its
bigger faster cousins.  If serial, it would be usable with other
things; I think it speaks something like PCL but certainly not the PCL
of the many-DPI printers.  Used to use one as a remote serial printer
hung off a 3000 and it was very reliable.

>   SoCal area HP collectors....  any Interest???  Anyone? I have more 
> than my share of non-DEC orpans now...   heeellpppp....   

I'm not quite SoCal (a little bit north of San Jose) and won't be able
to make it down there for a little while.  Plus IDDD (I Don't Do DEC)
and so don't have any of the stuff you're interested in for a swap.
Also I have two 3000/37s of my own.  So I won't be hurt if someone
else gets 'em, in fact that's part of the reason I am writing this
message, to help other folks down there figure out what this stuff is.

-Frank McConnell


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 12:42:16 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021525.RAA05564@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>Us.
>>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

> I wonder if there is legal precedent that might establish a reasonable
> level of due diligence to determine that a copyright asset has indeed
> been abandoned, and a legitimate method by which someone else could
> be considered at least allowed to reproduce it but perhaps not claim
> ownership of it.  In short, a process to follow that would establish
> that something is on its way to becoming public domain.  Without
> preservation now, the asset might be truly lost.

There are one possible way, but it isn't very safe - see below.

> For example, I've contacted several authors of early computer books 
> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
> floppies that had held his manuscript.

Just loosing _one_ media doesn't mean loosing copyright.
If one wants to get rid of his rights, he has to proclam
this in a prominent and usefull manner - like anouncing
it in a state publication or any kind of aprobiate publication.
Like puting an anouncement in a sourcefile.

It's exactly the reverse way as claiming an title for a book
or movie - If you want to avoide that someone else will
use a title of a planned book, you have to anounce it in a
aprobiate manner - i.e. in Germay you till put an add in the
'Boersenblatt des Deutschen Buchhandels' - a 'news'paper
for publishing companies and book traders.

For this case (reprinting a book), there are two and a half
steps to perform:

First try to get knowledge of the holder of rights. Basicly
easy, since book rights are always originated by the author.
Find the author, and ask if there are current licences. Apply
for a licence. If he has no futher interest, he may offer it
exclusive and unlimited for just a beer or two. Try to get a
written statement.

Geting licence doesn't include source material like disks
or scripts - if they are lost, you still have to key in
every letter again ...

Second if you can't locate the author, or any other people
possible owning actual licences or able to legitimate their
rights, you are free to copy and redistribute the work.

The hard term is 'unable to locate the owner' - judges
(at least in Europe and especialy the US) put up very
high bars to cross. You have to show that you did anything
possible (Adds, writing to former publishers, companies,
familie, friends, etc. searching directories).

Now you can start to reproduce the book - BUT in your best
interest you should take step twoandahalf: Opening a closed
account (I don't know the exact US term - its an account
where yo ujust put in money, but never take it back - possibly
managed by a lawyer) for the author/owner of rights. Now
'just' pay the royalities into this account.

If a beliveable owner of rights shows up, you just have to
grant him access to this account. A possible 'new' royality
agreement has to be made at this point. If the owner of
rights disagrees with the summ (you have to open your books
for double check sales and business regarding this licence)
don't grant the access and wait for his court move.

As long as your amount of saved royalities is reasonable
any court decision inf favour or the owner wouldn't grant
more, so be aware and don't put the royalities to low,
becaus if the judge thinks so, the summs can be enormous -
at leat within the strange US system.

This method (step twoandahalf) can (and will) be used on
any matter regarding intelectual properies - books, music
('legal' bootlegs use this to avoid geting dumped in the US)
or patents (If company A won't give company B a licence, B
could try it via twoandahalf - as long as they are able
without support from A :)

The trick is that you are NOT stealing the property - you
are willing to pay, but some strange thing might hinder you.

(This is even at wartime true, which leads to the very strange
fact where Germany took a way more civilizated position than
the US - Germany payed royalities even during the war for
tecnologie used - including weapon tecnologie - while the
US just declared any German patent or Trademark non existent.
Some things can caus dizziness when thinking about)

Ok, back to our book project: If you get the permission
from the author (like Sheldon Leemon) you're fine - don't
forgett to ask if theres still a licence, maybe even a
exclusive one for a publishing company, since in this
case you still have to look for the (original) publisher.

But regarding the KIM, with his chaotic past, a simple
solution isn't available.

Gruss
H.

Oh, and don't forgett: Even a non profit copying action
is forbidden. so if a C= group, for example, make copies
of the C64 ROM to distrimute within their group and friends
FOR FREE, they are subject to pay royalieties.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 12:45:26 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021528.RAA28157@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>>Us.
>>>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

> There are one possible way, but it isn't very safe - see below.

Addendum: I'm not a lawyer - just some publishing knowledge.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Wed Sep  2 12:18:11 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: HELP! (Tektronix 4052)
Message-ID: <9808029047.AA904781994@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

The last step before I cart my Tek to Santa Clara for the VCF:  
Insurance.

Insurance companies don't like things without a replacement value.  I 
have asked around how much to insure it for, and Dr Dooijes (curator of 
the Computer Museum in Amsterdam) has suggested $3000.

Anyone else have any ideas:

Are there any other 4052s around?
What might be the market rate?
Whom else can I ask?

Also, anyone have any suggestions about how to pack it for the flight?  
Large box with lots of foam seems to be the best idea so far.  Unless I 
can get hold of a Tek carrying case...

Philip.



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:03:17 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980902170317.20309.qmail@hotmail.com>

I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 12:07:18 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809021048.MAA27242@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902100222.16818B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> > (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)
> 
> Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
> bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

Not necessarily.  I think some of this old technology could arguably be
considered in the public domain, with companies having folded, owners
having died, etc.  Case in point: the IMSAI 8080.  I think whatever
vestiges of ownership of the IMSAI 8080 have been lost to time after the
transformation into ComputerLand, the subsequent bankruptcy and then the
re-birth of ComputerLand as Vanguard.  This is what I gather after having
read the book _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_. 

Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 12:13:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980902092706.00c82e50@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902101009.16818C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
> floppies that had held his manuscript.

This is something I hadn't considered.  The authors of some of the most
classic of computer books (I could name a bunch of Apple ones, like
_Benath Apple DOS_ for one) should be contacted and asked to hold onto
their original manuscripts if they still have them.  While it wouldn't be
a total loss if they are thrown out, since at least the book survives in
thousands of coipies, it would be nice to have the original manuscript
around in digital form to be preserved for millenia. 

I wonder if this is something we could turn into a concerted effort, a
drive to root out old computer book authors, or if anyone is really
interested.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  2 12:38:12 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Sep 1, 98 10:51:59 pm
Message-ID: <199809021738.KAA02219@goodnet.com>

> At 09:57 PM 8/27/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 8/27/98 9:03:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
> >
> >> 
> >>  The Unimat (it's still being made) is a nice machine, but IMHO a little 
> >>  small for the sort of things that I'm likely to need....
> >>  
> >
> >i really dread continuing this off topic discussion, but american science and
> >surplus (sciplus.com) sells the unimat 1 for $300. is it any good? 
> 
>   Not in my opinion,  they're a clever design but they're too small to make
> anything other than pins and such and much too flimsy to make accurate
> cuts. Weight & mass = stiffness = accurate cuts in a machine tool.  You're
> much better off to find an old 6" lathe like a Logan, Atlas or a South
> Bend.   I have a 12" lathe made in Mexico of all places but it's strong as
> hell! Even the chip tray is solid cast iron.

Where would you recommend finding a good deal on one?  How much do they
tend to go for?

-- 
  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
 (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
 __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:38:26 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
References: <19980902170317.20309.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35ED8292.33F2@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Yes the RS-232 is fully complient.. I use mine all the time..
Goto www.TRS-80.com  you will find out all you need there..
Even a Model 100 user's club on the internet..

Phil...

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
> came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
> Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
> if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
> and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
> modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
> cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
> like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep  2 12:39:06 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <v04011707b212959714b4@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980902103310.18218B-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

Zane, 

> Do you have any tapes that say anything about Standalone backup?  I don't
> know about Ultrix, but with VMS you've first got to boot Standalone backup
> and the use it to load VMS.

No, I do not, and did not know that.  VMS is what I am trying to load.  
The other tapes (Ultrix Application included) were ones that I used 
trying to determine if there was any problem with the TK50's ability to 
read.  Where could I get one of those?

						 - don


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 14:53:14 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021736.TAA28597@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

>> Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
>> bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

> Not necessarily.  I think some of this old technology could arguably be
> considered in the public domain, with companies having folded, owners
> having died, etc.  Case in point: the IMSAI 8080.  I think whatever
> vestiges of ownership of the IMSAI 8080 have been lost to time after the
> transformation into ComputerLand, the subsequent bankruptcy and then the
> re-birth of ComputerLand as Vanguard.  This is what I gather after having
> read the book _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_. 

In terms of copyright there is no thing like
'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
property) is always originated by natural persons,
And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
return to the original Author/Inventor.

> Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
> Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Don't know, but they are not free.

Sad but true.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From mbg at world.std.com  Wed Sep  2 12:55:53 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809021755.AA25291@world.std.com>

I also have a TI-74, with all of the rom cartridges, and the
PC interface... I have not yet bought the printer for it...

If you use AltaVista search for "TI-74", you should get the TI
web site, which will point you to another site, which is where
I actually purchased the stuff from.  I also got some manuals on
the TI-74... they have RAM cartridges, ROM cartridges, the
printer, the TI->PC interface (and software) and some other
stuff as well.  They also have stuff for the TI-95 (ProCalc)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Wed Sep  2 13:35:34 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: WORLD OF ATARI '98...WALKING THROUGH THE PARK AND
  REMINISCING
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980902105711.570fa652@ricochet.net>

At 07:29 PM 8/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You bet I was there...what an incredible time! It was a 
>fantastic event and well worth enduring the 110? heat!

Cool!  Next Saturday our local Atari club meeting will be centered around
stories from the folks that went.  

>Don Thomas has posted an excellent account 

Saw that and a couple of others; it did sound like fun!

>I myself will be posting pictures as soon as they are scanned...

Excellent!  Let us know when they're up!  


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Wed Sep  2 14:00:05 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980902142448.1155A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


Immediately following my success with the Mac yesterday, I got to work on
'fixing' my portable '286 box with LCD display (which I think is _barely_
classic).

The cable leading to the display had had three of its wires pulled out,
and I figured that this was the reason for the very weak and grungy
display.

I managed to solder little bits of wire into the holes and solder the
stray wires from the cable onto those, but then I realized that I couldn't
plug the thing in anymore as the holes (from the underside) had filled
with solder. :/

And I also realized that my solution was a bad one because the protruding
wires would short against the metal frame that holds the LCD panel in
place.

So I used the connector from the C64 keyboard instead.

Anyway, I got the cable rebuilt.  I've tested it with the multimeter and
all the wires make contact and go to the right places.

But now I can't get any kind of display from the LCD panel.  It doesn't
light up at all.  It looks like it's totally dead.

I put a monochrome display adapter card in the machine, and it will boot
up with that and display fine on a monochrome monitor.  So the machine is
_mostly_ OK.

I'm not sure the power supply is OK, though.  It squeals now.

So basically, I've turned an ill-looking display into a dead display, and
for some reason a healthy power supply is now sounding sick.

Bleah!

Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
in the same scanline.

I don't know where I'll go from here.  I'm just taking a breather
before continuing.  I wanted to be rebuilding the TS1016 RAM pack by now
instead of still messing with this damn PC. <s>

Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
juice going through there.  My thumb and forefinger are still tender.  But
the display was still working at that point, and looking much sharper than
it had been.  But the machine wouldn't close up properly because the
connector was too thick and that's why I went back in today, just to
reverse the cable so that the big fat Commodore connector was on the
inside instead of on the LCD panel end. (Which meant pulling the connector
apart and rebuilding it the other way, just so it would fit in.)

I haven't crossed any wires, I haven't plugged anything in backwards, and
I haven't dropped anything into the machine, so I don't know what I've
done wrong.

<s>


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From museum at techniche.com  Wed Sep  2 14:00:18 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Anybody want this stuff?
Message-ID: <199809021900.PAA02936@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi Scott,

Just checking whether you're still trying to sort things out or what not?

Regards,

Jon


>Jon Healey wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> 
>> I think I'd be interested in the xerox and the Amstrad.
>> Are they spoken for yet?
>> 
>> Where are you located?  I'm in NH.
>> 
>
>Neither are claimed at the moment. In the case of the Xerox, it has a
>lot of documentation and will be quite heavy to ship I think. Give a
>couple of days to sort out the stuff and I will be back in touch with
>you.
>
>I am located in Rocky Mount, NC.
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kirk Scott
>scottk5@ibm.net
>



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 14:04:36 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <19980902190437.28684.qmail@hotmail.com>





if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.
>
>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:
>
>> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
>> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
>> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
>> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
>> floppies that had held his manuscript.
>
>This is something I hadn't considered.  The authors of some of the most
>classic of computer books (I could name a bunch of Apple ones, like
>_Benath Apple DOS_ for one) should be contacted and asked to hold onto
>their original manuscripts if they still have them.  While it wouldn't 
be
>a total loss if they are thrown out, since at least the book survives 
in
>thousands of coipies, it would be nice to have the original manuscript
>around in digital form to be preserved for millenia. 
>
>I wonder if this is something we could turn into a concerted effort, a
>drive to root out old computer book authors, or if anyone is really
>interested.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Wed Sep  2 13:36:58 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <980902143658.62@trailing-edge.com>

>Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
>Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Which rights?  The name?  The design?  The PC board layouts?  The
documentation?

I would think the only things left to worry about are the name and
any copyrights that might exist on the PC artwork.  I doubt the
actual design is protected at all - it's almost exactly what you'd get
if you just took one of the Intel 8080A databooks and copied the CPU
implementation.  Why would anybody want to
make an exact clone of the original design anyway?  A couple
months after the introduction of the Altair there were hundreds
of garage-based businesses selling much better designed S-100
CPU's and peripherals!

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 2081


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 14:09:37 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <19980902190941.7507.qmail@hotmail.com>





HGC _could_ stand for Hercules Graphics Controller. I don't know.
The display... are you sure you haven't shorted anything with solder?
Have you tried using a VOM in O mode to directly stimulate the display?
Touching it to various pins should get various lines to appear.
>'fixing' my portable '286 box with LCD display (which I think is 
_barely_
>classic).
>
>The cable leading to the display had had three of its wires pulled out,
>and I figured that this was the reason for the very weak and grungy
>display.
>
>I managed to solder little bits of wire into the holes and solder the
>stray wires from the cable onto those, but then I realized that I 
couldn't
>plug the thing in anymore as the holes (from the underside) had filled
>with solder. :/
>
>And I also realized that my solution was a bad one because the 
protruding
>wires would short against the metal frame that holds the LCD panel in
>place.
>
>So I used the connector from the C64 keyboard instead.
>
>Anyway, I got the cable rebuilt.  I've tested it with the multimeter 
and
>all the wires make contact and go to the right places.
>
>But now I can't get any kind of display from the LCD panel.  It doesn't
>light up at all.  It looks like it's totally dead.
>
>I put a monochrome display adapter card in the machine, and it will 
boot
>up with that and display fine on a monochrome monitor.  So the machine 
is
>_mostly_ OK.
>
>I'm not sure the power supply is OK, though.  It squeals now.
>
>So basically, I've turned an ill-looking display into a dead display, 
and
>for some reason a healthy power supply is now sounding sick.
>
>Bleah!
>
>Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
>It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 
9-pin
>port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
>picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different 
frequency
>or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
>craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous 
times
>in the same scanline.
>
>I don't know where I'll go from here.  I'm just taking a breather
>before continuing.  I wanted to be rebuilding the TS1016 RAM pack by 
now
>instead of still messing with this damn PC. <s>
>
>Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some 
exposed
>wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that 
much
>juice going through there.  My thumb and forefinger are still tender.  
But
>the display was still working at that point, and looking much sharper 
than
>it had been.  But the machine wouldn't close up properly because the
>connector was too thick and that's why I went back in today, just to
>reverse the cable so that the big fat Commodore connector was on the
>inside instead of on the LCD panel end. (Which meant pulling the 
connector
>apart and rebuilding it the other way, just so it would fit in.)
>
>I haven't crossed any wires, I haven't plugged anything in backwards, 
and
>I haven't dropped anything into the machine, so I don't know what I've
>done wrong.
>
><s>
>
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
>http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep  2 14:27:27 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <19980902190437.28684.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980902142727.00c69900@pc>

At 12:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.

- John



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 15:01:27 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980902200128.221.qmail@hotmail.com>





I said it was _like_ a model 100, not an actual 100. It's very
different, but the idea is similar.
>Yes the RS-232 is fully complient.. I use mine all the time..
>Goto www.TRS-80.com  you will find out all you need there..
>Even a Model 100 user's club on the internet..
>
>Phil...
>
>Max Eskin wrote:
>> 
>> I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
>> came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
>> Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
>> if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
>> and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
>> modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
>> cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
>> like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 15:04:24 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <19980902200424.18425.qmail@hotmail.com>





These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
to go back and edit something.
>>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.
>
>Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
>shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
>book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
>reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
>as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
>Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.
>
>- John
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  2 12:33:36 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
In-Reply-To: <35EBFF8F.5A66B13B@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 1, 98 10:07:11 am
Message-ID: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 15:50:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809021736.TAA28597@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902134939.16353A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
> property) is always originated by natural persons,
> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
> return to the original Author/Inventor.

What happens if the author/inventor dies?


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 15:52:47 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: WORLD OF ATARI '98...WALKING THROUGH THE PARK AND  REMINISCING
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980902105711.570fa652@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902135158.16353B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> At 07:29 PM 8/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >You bet I was there...what an incredible time! It was a 
> >fantastic event and well worth enduring the 110° heat!
> 
> Cool!  Next Saturday our local Atari club meeting will be centered around
> stories from the folks that went.  

What was the attendance?  Anyone have an actual number?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com  Wed Sep  2 13:23:40 1998
From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: FWD: Free stuff in the UK
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35ED8D2C.792F4CCD@joules.enterprise-plc.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> Not me, this guy:
[Snip]
> 
> Free to anyone who can collect from St Austell, Cornwall:
> 
Damn, Damn, Damn  - I have just got back from a holiday in Cornwall -
this stuff would have made the 330mile (each way) journey even more
worthwile :)

Regards
Pete



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  2 16:10:58 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: re RAMs
Message-ID: <199809022110.PAA28067@calico.litterbox.com>

For anyone who was wondering, those RAM chips I was offering for free found a 
home in a computer at the Red Cross courtesy of Russ.  Thanks.  Beats the heck
out of throwing them out. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 16:14:35 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809022114.OAA27791@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
>> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
>> property) is always originated by natural persons,
>> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
>> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
>> return to the original Author/Inventor.
>
>What happens if the author/inventor dies?

I just went through a huge ordeal similiar to this in trying to get 
Resnova's NovaServer (BBS server) put into the public domain.

The following, of course, does not constitute legal advice.  ;-)

To quote Peter E. Converse:

---Start Quote---
When you say that ResNova "no longer exists in any way shape or form", 
that
may mean several different things.  It may mean that ResNova has gone
through a Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation, that its corporate charter has
been allowed to lapse, or merely that its operations have been abandoned. 
Each of these possibilities leads to several different outcomes.

First, if ResNova is bankrupt, any intellectual property (like NovaServer)
would pass temporarily through the hands of a bankruptcy trustee, receiver
or debtor-in-possession.  Then, this person probably would have attempted
to sell this intellectual property to satisfy the debts of the company.  
If
ResNova is still going through a bankruptcy, you could contact the trustee
or receiver by checking federal Bankruptcy records.

Second, if ResNova's corporate charter has been allowed to lapse (which is
what I think you mean, if I had to bet), that corporation still owns the
intellectual property in question, even though it no longer exists under
the laws of the state of incorporation (subject to my comments about
abandonment below).  You might be able to arrange to purchase or license
the IP by contacting the officers of the company.  To find out who they
are, you could contact the Secretary of State of the state in which 
Resnova
was originally incorporated.  This would probably be the State of its
primary operations, or, alternatively, Delaware, NY or Calif.  Any
Secretary of State will tell you, over the phone, the name of the
registered agent (prob an attorney or officer of the company) who could
help you arrange a purchase or license.

Third, if ResNova's shareholders, officers, directors and creditors have
all disappeared, you might be able to treat this intellectual property as
having been "abandoned."  Unfortunately, if you do so, you may be
subjecting yourself to legal liability for unlicensed use of the IP in the
event that any of these folks turn up later.  The burden in court would be
placed on you to prove that you made a rigorous effort to find the owners
and that they really had abandoned the asset.  I would suggest making
thorough investigations as described in the above two paragraphs before
simply assuming that the asset has been abandoned.

Of course, you should understand that this information is merely general
and is not legal advice rendered as to specific facts.  You should 
probably
consult an attorney before taking any actions in this matter.
 
Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.  I represent a number 
of
software developers, consultants, consumer product marketers and IT
professionals.

Good Luck.

Peter E. Converse
The Law Offices of Peter E. Converse
8 South Michigan Avenue
Suite 2600
Chicago, Illinois  60603
(312) 214-0661
(312) 332-0600 Fax
convers@interaccess.com
---End Quote---

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 05:19:06 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
References: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35ED1B9A.EE4E1B24@sprintmail.com>

Hi Tony,
    I did not see anything unusual on the screen before this happened, however
tonight I will look closer and let you know..
I am planning on disconnecting the power sullpy from the rest of the components
and see what happens if I power it up alone..
I will look very close at the yoke assemble also..

Thanks for your interest.. Very kind of you..
Back to you later...

Phil Clayton

Tony Duell wrote:

> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >     I am needing schematics for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
> > repairing it..
> > I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
> > had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
> > condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
> > was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
> > damage..
>
> My first guess (not having seen the machine or the schematics) is that
> the flyback (EHT) transformer is breaking down. Was there any change to
> the image on the screen (flicker/change in size) when the problem occurred?
>
> Examine the flyback carefully looking for cracks/burning
>
> -tony





From rhblake at bbtel.com  Wed Sep  2 17:31:55 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: FREE to a good home (you pay shipping)- Terminals
Message-ID: <35EDC75A.416DB9E@bbtel.com>

FREE (yup, just shipping is all) to a good home....temrinals! One, two
or all.

     1 - DEC model VT100, no keyboard but great shape and working. About
32 lbs shipping weight

     2 - Visual model 102 complete with keyboard, great shape and
working. About 35 lbs shipping

     3 - Texas Instruments model 911VDT, no keyboard. Great shape and
working. About 28 lbs shipping

     NOTE....They go to that terrible place that many other unwanted
machines go soon - the DUMPSTER OF
     DEATH if I don't get a firm response before long. I've held back
from dumping them as I know someone out
     there has a use for one or all of them. Shipping will be calculated
by USPS parcel post rates from me in zip 40144
     to you and prepayment by money order or cashier's check is
required. I will ship the same or next day as I
     recieve payment. If you want any of these contact me by direct
email SOON.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 06:20:00 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
References: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com>




> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >     I am needing help for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
> > repairing it..
> > I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
> > had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
> > condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
> > was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
> > damage..
>
> My first guess (not having seen the machine or the schematics) is that
> the flyback (EHT) transformer is breaking down. Was there any change to
> the image on the screen (flicker/change in size) when the problem occurred?
>
> Examine the flyback carefully looking for cracks/burning
>
> -tony

I checked the Flyback and whole Video assembly , it looks fine on inspection..

  I pulled the whole unit apart and I now know its the Switching Power Supply..

1980 by Astec components LTD.

The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
saw smoke..

The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
leaking out)
The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP

On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..

I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
from my friends"


So What do you think?
Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?

Like I said the unit was still working when I shut it down, it was smoking like

crazy tho..

It looks like the standard voltages +12, -12,  Com, +5 noted on the circuit
board..

Can anyone help...???

Thanks for your help...

Phil Clayton





From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  2 19:02:16 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980902142448.1155A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 2, 98 03:00:05 pm
Message-ID: <199809030002.RAA01765@goodnet.com>

> Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
> It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin

Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original 
mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
It does use a 9-pin connector.

> port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
> picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
> or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
> craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
> in the same scanline.

Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?
> 
> Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
> wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much

Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.

-- 
  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
 (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
 __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Wed Sep  2 19:52:27 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980902170259.3a0f92b0@ricochet.net>

At 02:31 PM 8/26/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and
>invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without
>owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would
>own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for
>the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders
>like this?

Well, reloading is a popular sport -- you take used cartridges, cast your
own bullets (heat metal, pour into molds), and combine them with as much
gunpowder as you like.  Modifying the casing wouldn't be too hard, I
imagine for anyone with any basic metalworking skills, nor would altering
the bullet mold.  

As for computer cases, early models were probably handmade; it's not that
hard.  Take a run to your local Tap Plastics store.  You can pick up all
kinds/sizes of plastics that can then be made into just about anything.
Also, model car/plane/boat shops probably have stuff to let you work with
plastics.

Even metal cases aren't that hard; I have a friend who built, as one of his
first projects, an amazing set of cabinets/shelves for his Land Rover out
of aluminum.  Some simple tools are required, but nothing earth-shattering.

I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  2 20:33:50 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Deja vu
References: <199809020442.VAA05138@mxu1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35EDF1FE.29A2A9AC@cnct.com>

Aaron Michael Walkhouse wrote:

> D'oh!  You'd think that after The Famous Ariane 5 Fireball that every launch
> since would have that checked as part of the countdown.
> That one was way too spectacular to forget.

I forget if I've plugged the book here before (I know I've plugged
it every bloody where else and given away a dozen licensed copies
as well), but for a _good_ description of a trivial software glitch
screwing up a launch, I recommend the Prometheus Award winning
novel _Kings of the High Frontier_ by Victor Koman.  It is now out
in a limited edition hardcover (I bought one at Worldcon), but the
HTML version is still available from <http://www.pulpless.com/>.
Yes, the book is unashamedly libertarian (as am I).  But imagine
the sight if the Solid Rocket Boosters either side of a NASA
shuttle happened to light off a fraction of a second apart.  (SRBs
can't be throttled the way liguid-fueled engines can).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  2 20:38:18 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <00be01bdd6db$889526e0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

I remember some laptop that had a special key combination to switch from LCD
to external monitor. You could not have both at the same time. Look for
extra feature keys (usually accessed by pressing a special FN key).
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Rutledge <ecloud@goodnet.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: LCD woes


>> Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
>> It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
>
>Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original
>mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
>mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
>with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
>with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
>It does use a 9-pin connector.
>
>> port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
>> picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
>> or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
>> craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous
times
>> in the same scanline.
>
>Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?
>>
>> Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
>> wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
>
>Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.
>
>--
>  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM
ecloud@goodnet.com
> (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web:
http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
> __) | |
\__________________________________________________________________
>* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics *
>



From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  2 20:39:46 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <00cb01bdd6db$bdaf3500$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

So what is it? Any model number on the machine?
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <maxeskin@hotmail.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: TI Compact Computer 40


>
>
>
>
>I said it was _like_ a model 100, not an actual 100. It's very
>different, but the idea is similar.




From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  2 21:44:53 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
References: <3.0.16.19980902170259.3a0f92b0@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <35EE02A5.3ABB094@cnct.com>

Uncle Roger wrote:

> I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
> wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
> first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
> you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
> vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)

Back in my youth, Ma Bell (a monopoly at the time) displayed at a
travelling show (where I first played tic-tac-toe against a computer)
a demo model of their upcoming standard phone with the dial in the
handset -- but the case wase was transparent plastic so you could 
actually see the transisters and relays and such inside the thing.
They never produced such things for customers, and by the time other
companies could sell clear telephones the circuitry was modern and
therefore boring.

The Tandy folks from Fort Worth used to bring a Tandy 6000 to the
computer shows in LA (which I naturally had to help with, as they
rarely brought anybody from central tech support and I was the closest
competent available) with a big chunk of the case cut out out and a
piece of plexi showing it off.  I'd have loved it if the entire case
made of plexi was an option.  Especially since one of my local
customers (a company that was making the cases for Tandy, desired to
computerise, and sent a dozen folks to several classes I taught
before they actually bought the machines) would have made them, and I
might have been able to snarf a few manufacturing seconds.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From esther95 at gro1.telmex.net.mx  Wed Sep  2 21:47:42 1998
From: esther95 at gro1.telmex.net.mx (Esther Vargas Astudillo)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <01bdd6e5$38ec3160$24a7e994@gro1.gro1.telmex.net.mx>

Please 


send me a imagen of minicomputers

-------------- next part --------------
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From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep  3 01:57:42 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809030441.GAA03171@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

>>Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
>>shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
>>book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
>>reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
>>as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
>>Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.

> These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
> successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
> compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
> to go back and edit something.

First, not everybody is collecting everything :)
Second, for a sequent edition you will use the
medias from the publisher, or jur write the
changes in one copy and give it to the publisher
(And if you're very successful, you just tell him
via phone wat to change :).

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep  3 01:57:43 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809030441.GAA03206@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
>> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
>> property) is always originated by natural persons,
>> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
>> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
>> return to the original Author/Inventor.

> What happens if the author/inventor dies?

It comes to inheritance.

In fact, even copyright vanishes, but not before at least
50 Years.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From russmiller at jps.net  Thu Sep  3 01:57:17 1998
From: russmiller at jps.net (Russ Miller)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM!- Prototypes
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980902235716.006b60cc@jps.net>

Dave Hick's fantastic HP calculator museum has an interesting page and
images of design studies and prototypes of a few HP desktop calculators
which illustrate how realistic some prototyping methods can be.  

http://www.teleport.com/~dgh/designs/designs.htm

>
>As for computer cases, early models were probably handmade; it's not that
>hard.  Take a run to your local Tap Plastics store.  You can pick up all
>kinds/sizes of plastics that can then be made into just about anything.
>Also, model car/plane/boat shops probably have stuff to let you work with
>plastics.
>
>Even metal cases aren't that hard; I have a friend who built, as one of his
>first projects, an amazing set of cabinets/shelves for his Land Rover out
>of aluminum.  Some simple tools are required, but nothing earth-shattering.
>
>I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
>wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
>first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
>you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
>vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>
>Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/
>
>
>



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Thu Sep  3 04:10:06 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD update
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903044229.24937A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


All is OK!  Even the power supply is quiet now.  I think it may have been
squealing only when the full load wasn't being drawn (I had both drives
disconnected) and only for a few seconds after power-up.

Anyway, the problem with the LCD panel was really nothing.  The new
connector simply needed to mate with longer pins to make proper contact.
The pins at the back of the LCD panel were long enough, but the ones
inside the machine were not.  I ground down the connector a little bit and
it works now.

I also fully disassembled the casing to get at the variable resistor that
controls the "contrast", because it was so dirty that I couldn't get a
stable picture at all.  I used an aerosol contact cleaner on it.

I did find a loose paperclip during the disassembly.  Hopefully it didn't
do any damage while it was in there.

The picture is now stable and clear.  I used to get corrupted characters
and strange lines on the display at seemingly random times, but I used the
machine for at least six hours straight tonight and it never came back.
The screen also used to be sensitive to movement and its position, and now
it doesn't care if I grab it and flip it up while I'm using it.  I'm
guessing that several other wires were in the process of working loose.

The screen is just naturally hard to read, but not nearly as hard as it
was.  The contrast has to be adjusted according to the user's viewpoint,
and it's not always possible to clearly see the whole screen at once
(especially up close).

At some contrast settings, dark patches appear on the screen.  Also, areas
of the screen react to what is being displayed on other areas with a kind
of ghosting, which can be a little distracting when the contents of the
screen are busy.  I'm guessing that this is normal for this technology.

One really cool thing is that the characters appear to "float" on the
screen.

I think I can confirm a 1988 date for both construction and purchase.
Most of the parts with identifiable date stamps that I looked at had date
stamps of late '87 or the first few weeks of '88.  Also, the contents of
the hard drive which I never inspected very thoroughly (because of the
screen) included personal and business (including many local businesses 
that I know) tax records from 1987 through to 1991.

And yes, I did delete files of that nature as I found them.  There were
approximately 16MB worth of accounting files, and only software that would
be useful in accounting, so clearly this was an accountant's machine.

I'm a bit disturbed by the implications of finding such information at a
garage sale.

There is something strange about the display, BTW.  It has
externally-accessible dip switches.  Four of them.  And there's a note
taped inside the panel that certain pieces of software require a certain
switch setting.

I attempted to install GeoWorks 1.00 and found that its installation
program is one of the programs that needs that switch setting. :/

And no, I didn't get GeoWorks running, because I don't have a
PC-compatible mouse. :/ (I picked up GeoWorks at the Goodwill this week.)

Anyway, I'm still up because I've been watching the news all night.
<shudder>  Had it not been for that, I probably would have reported back
with my success a lot sooner.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Thu Sep  3 04:17:45 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809030002.RAA01765@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903051215.24937B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> > Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
> > It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
> 
> Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original 
> mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
> mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
> with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
> with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
> It does use a 9-pin connector.

OK, thanks, that's probably it.  The fact that it didn't work with my
monochrome monitor may not mean much, either, as there is an external
toggle switch on the display card as well as four externally-accessible
dip switches.  I did try the monitor with both toggle positions, but I
didn't play with the dip switches.

> > port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
> > picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
> > or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
> > craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
> > in the same scanline.
> 
> Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?

Yes, it works fine with two other machines and three monochrome cards that
I've tried.

> > Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
> > wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
> 
> Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.

Yes, it's backlit.  I think that's why it looks like the characters are
floating. :)

> -- 
>   _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
>  (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
>  __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
> * X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 

Thanks.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From gim at hitec-uk.com  Thu Sep  3 04:19:34 1998
From: gim at hitec-uk.com (Grant I Mitchell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <80256674.0031B4F1.00@hitec-uk.com>




Tim,

The drives are Diablo 30 drives, and the disks (there are several), are
marked
PDP-11 system disk, and PDP-11 Backup disk. The previous owner told me when
I
picked them up, that they should boot. Last night, I tried playing around
with
it again, and tried to access the disk status register (round about
17400(8) from
memory, but I'm at work just now and it was late last night, so my terrible
memory
can't be sure...). It seemed to contain 000000 (from typing @17400/). :(
Which
doesn't, as far as I can tell from the assorted docs, look to promising for
the state drive.

An other potential problem is that I believe a clock pulse was generated by
a
CAMAC crate attatched to it. I've got the crate, but cannot attatch it at
present
because it needs a 110V supply, and I don't have my 110V transformer just
now.

My house is a 240V only zone at the moment, or at least as long as these
machines stop tripping the surge detector!. I need to install a more
forgiving
fuse box.

Thanks for your help.

Grant

>>at $ prompt type in drive name
>>
>>    $ DK0
>
>What sort of media are you actually trying to boot?  Why do you think
>it's got a valid boot-block?
>
>>It now takes me back to the @ prompt.
>>Type in 0g
>>
>>    @0g
>>
>>and I get 000002 back.
>>I'm assuming that the '2' I get back is an error of some sort. Can anyone
>>shed any light
>>on this one for me.
>
>Nope, it's not an error - it's the address the CPU stopped at.  It's
>certainly the case that at address 0, there's a "HALT" instruction
>(i.e. the contents are zero.)  This is very possibly because the boot
>block you read into location 0 was all zeroes - i.e. not a boot block
>at all.




From scottk5 at ibm.net  Thu Sep  3 05:31:11 1998
From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Anybody want this stuff?
References: <199809021900.PAA02936@chmls05.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <35EE6FEF.B6@ibm.net>

Jon Healey wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Just checking whether you're still trying to sort things out or what not?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon
> 

Hi Jon,

Still sorting and the recent hurricane complicated matters by damaging
part of the roof where the computers are stored. Will let you know when
they are ready to go asap. Thanks for your patience.

Kirk Scott
scottk5@ibm.net


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 09:13:11 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980903141312.12257.qmail@hotmail.com>







>So what is it? Any model number on the machine?
>Francois
The model is Compact Computer 40, abbreviated as CC40. It's a small
9 X 5.5 " unit, gray, with a full keyboard including numeric keypad,
and a one-line 30-character display. It has 8k RAM and 2k ROM (I
think) and BASIC and a monitor in ROM. A cartridge port, HEXBUS port
for plugging in cool stuff which I don't have (like a tape drive),
and AC adapter port. Runs on 4 AA batteries. Has lots of math
functions as well. Comes with a manual, mostly about BASIC, and anothe
r book called 'Learn BASIC: A guide to programming the TI CC40'
It's made in 1983. There is an ad for it that runs '20 pages of notes,
a thesis, algebraic formulas. Can you make a date at eight?
Turn to your TI Compact Computer. By 7:14 your TI CC40(tm) has your
notes filed, the changes made in your thesis, and all those formulas
worked. The CC-40 goes where you go -- the classroom, library,
anywhere. It's cordless, compact, sophisticated. It gives you much of
the problem solving power of Apple or IBM personal computers. But
it's a fraction of the size and price..." the ad goes on to say
6K RAM, 34K ROM, which doesn't agree with my manual. This thing
runs at 2.5 Mhz,BTW. So, if anyone has any cartridges or accessories
(that tape drive sure looks nice!) that they would be willing to
sell/trade/give to me...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From workapulo at my-dejanews.com  Thu Sep  3 11:28:49 1998
From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: PT SOL Arrives
Message-ID: <BDLDHCAKDIODIAAA@my-dejanews.com>

Well, my new (old) PT SOL machine showed up (after nearly being lost by UPS) last night.

Of all the classic machines I have gathered, this one was by far the best kept of the bunch.

Bob Stek, the docs showed up (thank you) the same time. How nice :)

Tony


-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums


From van at wired.com  Thu Sep  3 12:32:31 1998
From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HE HE HE
In-Reply-To: <01bdd6e5$38ec3160$24a7e994@gro1.gro1.telmex.net.mx>
Message-ID: <v03110702b21482ff03df@[206.221.206.170]>

I have a nice 10MB file of a PDP-1...should I send it to her? ;)




>     Please      send me a imagen of  minicomputers  


........................................................................

                                          @
                                         /
                                        /  Shift Lever
                                    (D)/
\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan ===
BNL            |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired!
- ------------]=[]@----------------------@                  415.276.4979
Trans-      ]  ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655  (B) ? (C) Rear Connection
mission     ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
            ]  ]]
71 ------------]         web superstation of the stars...
van burnham				http://www.futuraworld.com
production manager
wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states
........................................................................
for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com
van@wired.com  van@futuraworld.com  pingpong@spy.net  vanburnham@aol.com




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 12:47:30 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HE HE HE
Message-ID: <19980903174730.27291.qmail@hotmail.com>




C'mon guys, be nice. It's probably someone doing a school report or
something. www.chac.org/chhistpg.htm has plenty of links to pictures.
Try the PDP ftp archives, they have some good pics.
>I have a nice 10MB file of a PDP-1...should I send it to her? ;)
>
>
>
>
>>     Please      send me a imagen of  minicomputers  
>
>
>........................................................................
>
>                                          @
>                                         /
>                                        /  Shift Lever
>                                    (D)/
>\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan 
===
>BNL            |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired!
>- ------------]=[]@----------------------@                  
415.276.4979
>Trans-      ]  ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655  (B) ? (C) Rear 
Connection
>mission     ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
>            ]  ]]
>71 ------------]         web superstation of the stars...
>van burnham				http://www.futuraworld.com
>production manager
>wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united 
states
>........................................................................
>for immediate emergency wireless access send email to 
van-page@wired.com
>van@wired.com  van@futuraworld.com  pingpong@spy.net  
vanburnham@aol.com
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ecloud at goodnet.com  Thu Sep  3 13:23:34 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903051215.24937B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 3, 98 05:17:45 am
Message-ID: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>

> OK, thanks, that's probably it.  The fact that it didn't work with my
> monochrome monitor may not mean much, either, as there is an external
> toggle switch on the display card as well as four externally-accessible
> dip switches.  I did try the monitor with both toggle positions, but I
> didn't play with the dip switches.

I've seen cards that could do both CGA and HGC, and maybe even EGA modes.
They had DIP switches as you are describing.

As for some software requireing a switch to be flipped - maybe it also
has a way of emulating CGA via HGC, or something.  (CGA-mono is slightly
lower res (640x200 I think), and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games 
on my hercules card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe
your card can do this in hardware.)

-- 


From red at bears.org  Thu Sep  3 13:37:51 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809031434510.31131-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games on my hercules
> card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe your
> card can do this in hardware.)

I remember that utility. SIMCGA.EXE (or .COM?) I'll bet you could still
find it in one of the MS-DOS Shareware archives.

ok
r.



From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca  Thu Sep  3 14:06:49 1998
From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Digest?
Message-ID: <012f01bdd76e$02c548e0$844c8bc0@mgb119>

Is this list available in digest format? If so - how does one subscribe?




From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Sep  3 14:24:31 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <199809031924.AA24321@world.std.com>

>The drives are Diablo 30 drives, and the disks (there are several), are
>marked PDP-11 system disk, and PDP-11 Backup disk. The previous owner
>told me when I picked them up, that they should boot. Last night, I tried
>playing around with it again, and tried to access the disk status
>register (round about 17400(8) from memory, but I'm at work just now and
>it was late last night, so my terrible memory can't be sure...). It
>seemed to contain 000000 (from typing @17400/). :( Which doesn't, as far
>as I can tell from the assorted docs, look to promising for the state
>drive. 

17400 can't be a disk address...  The physical address range for I/O
page addresses is 17760000-17777776.  On some machines this can be
shortened to 760000-777776, and on some, even further to 160000-177776.
(Though if you are referencing the I/O page from within a program, you
must use a 16-bit value in the range 160000-177776, and the memory
management must either be off, or setup such that the mapping registers
for that range point to the actual I/O page).

Have you examined memory beginning at 0 to see if there has been any
code actually loaded from the disk?  (Deposit something like zero or
177777 in a bunch of locations beginning at address 0, and after trying
to boot, check those addresses... if they are different from what you
entered, then that might indicate the disk has actually done something)

BTW - what sort of DEC disk do your disks emulate?  That would help
in being able to tell you what address you could twiddle with, and
what toggle-in boot code to try...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep  3 15:49:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HTML in email (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980903134858.18211A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


This is not relevant to vintage computers but it is relevant to people
who, unbeknownst to them, are sending HTML in their e-mail.  Hope it helps
someone.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:45:55 +0000
From: Mark <mark_k@iname.com>
To: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
Subject: HTML in email


Anyway, here are some instructions on how to turn off this mis-feature. Telling
senders of HTML messages how to do this will allow them to turn the HTML off.

Regards,
-- Mark Knibbs
mark_k@iname.com


Removing HTML from Internet Mail and Outlook Express.
=====================================================

Internet Mail
-------------
Go to the Mail menu, select Options.
This brings up a set of tabs. The first tab is marked Send.

Near the bottom of this is a section Mail Sending Format.

There are two bullet holes (radio buttons), set this to Plain Text
instead of HTML.

Outlook Express
---------------
Go to the Tools menu and select Options. click the second tab which is marked
Send. Here you have both mail sending format and news sending format.

For both put the bullet point next to Plain text and not HTML.



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Thu Sep  3 15:51:22 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

Don't know if I'd actually classify this as a 'rescue', since probably the
worst that would happen would be that the gear would end up buried in my
warehouse, but...

A couple of items that could use a new home.  (just cause I don't have
time to get to them at present)  I won't attach a specific price to either
but would like to see either a little $$ or something interesting in trade
for them.  (see the 'wish list' on my web pages for ideas)

Both items are considered to be in 'as-is' condition.  I've not had time
to try to fire them up or do any check out since they came to me.

Either would need to be picked up as they are too large (&/or) heavy to be
practical to ship economically.


1) Cypher 9 track tape drive.  800/1600 bpi, 125IPS transport. Just the
drive, no cabinet.

1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
top bay.


Drop me a note if interested.  Note: my ISP is having problems with their
dial up lines (darn US West anyway!) so my access to email is a bit
sporadic at present...  So don't panic if I don't get right back to you...

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 15:54:05 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: apple2GS wave keyboard
Message-ID: <199809032054.OAA02963@calico.litterbox.com>

Hi gang.  Just to let you know, the Adesso TruForm (AEK-606) wave style
keyboard works great with the apple2GS.  For those of you like me with
big hands and wrists that don't like bending sideways during typing, this
thing is a godsend.  US$89.95 at CompUSA, probably cheaper in MacMall.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Thu Sep  3 15:57:51 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <980903165751.21c@trailing-edge.com>

>17400 can't be a disk address...  The physical address range for I/O
>BTW - what sort of DEC disk do your disks emulate?  That would help
>in being able to tell you what address you could twiddle with, and
>what toggle-in boot code to try...

174400 is the RL02, and it's vaguely possible that this is the CSR
he meant to type.  He describes the disk packs as being Diablos, and
RL02 packs do have the same form factor.  But if this were the case, 
then the device he should be trying to boot from would be DL0:, not 
the DK0: he's been trying so far.  

177400 is the RK05, and this is possible too.

Of course, we've so little information
that this is all just shooting in the wind!

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Thu Sep  3 16:05:46 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
References: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809031434510.31131-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <35EF04A9.9318985A@bbtel.com>

R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:
>
> > and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games on my hercules
> > card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe your
> > card can do this in hardware.)
>
> I remember that utility. SIMCGA.EXE (or .COM?) I'll bet you could still
> find it in one of the MS-DOS Shareware archives.

It's SIMCGA4.ZIP and I have it if someone needs it...just drop me a direct
email and I'll attach it post-haste.

--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 12:35:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 2, 98 07:20:00 am
Message-ID: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 12:56:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
In-Reply-To: <80256674.0031B4F1.00@hitec-uk.com> from "Grant I Mitchell" at Sep 3, 98 10:19:34 am
Message-ID: <m0zEdck-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 16:16:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
In-Reply-To: <980903165751.21c@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Sep 3, 98 04:57:51 pm
Message-ID: <m0zEgkE-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From manney at lrbcg.com  Thu Sep  3 11:46:50 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
Message-ID: <01bdd75a$72b169e0$1428a2ce@manney>

I do, I think. Lemme check.

>Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
>for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
>test this thing before shipping it.




From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:10 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: old computers
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903111946.4cbff826@ricochet.net>

At 06:49 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Marvin, this came out as an unviewable HTML and PLAIN text document on my
>end that PINE's external viewer couldn't handle.  When I replied it came

Eudora assumes it's an attachment and puts it in a file; I end up with
hundreds of stupid little files called "reoldcom" or whatever.  PITA.  

>this problem of posting their messages in HTML.  I think you guys should
>be able to configure your mail program to send only unencoded plain text. 

On the other hand, this particular Marvin (not the one we're used to) is a)
probably a CPA and thus perhaps not truly computer literate (why else would
he be dumping perfectly good 486's?) and b) not subscribed to the list, so
unless you BCC'ed him, he didn't get it.  (Probably wouldn't get it anyway.)

Keep in mind, folks, that the list is echoed to a web site.  If someone
does a search on, say, "Altair", they're going to find several of the pages
with list messages.  They'll then send a message to the address listed (the
list) asking how much their Altair is worth, or what have you.  Probably
without checking the date, btw, which is why we occasionally see messages
like "I see you are searching for a rare commodore 64 power supply; I can
sell you one for $199 plus shipping" when no one's been looking for a C PS
for months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:11 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903121310.4b0747b6@ricochet.net>

At 12:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, you wrote:
>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

Not necessarily.  He may have hundreds of the printed copy, and not think
that the original manuscript, on an 8-bit Atari floppy, for example, is
worth keeping around.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:05 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903110443.6d5f2006@ricochet.net>

At 06:30 PM 8/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Max Eskin wrote:
>> 
>> Who _is_ Jerry Pournelle?
>
>Columnist in Byte, "The User's Column", later renamed "Computing
...
>good science fiction writer and half of the best science fiction

Well, I'm not so crazy about him as a sf writer, but I did feel that his
columns in Byte did well in showing, in a way that a techie could
understand, what it was like for a user to be confronted with new
technology.  

Nearly ran him down one time, though, on my skateboard, because I was busy
checking out his wife.  8^)  Wasn't (isn't) she a expert in special ed or
something like that?  

I remember him; he (99.99%) probably doesn't remember me.  But love him or
hate him, he was a fascinating character.  Not sure if he claimed it
outright or just alluded to it, but I always got the impression he had been
a spy or something in the 50's/60's.  Any truth to that?  

Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
neat person.  A physicist turned programmer. 

Lastly, anyone know whatever happened to the local San Francisco BBS
Newsbase and its denizens?


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:13 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903122029.37d71422@ricochet.net>

At 01:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, you wrote:
>These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
>successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
>compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
>to go back and edit something.

If you wrote a book in 1983, had the second edition in 85, then they
discontinued the 8-bit ataris.  Now it's 1995, you're moving, and you've
got this box with an old atari and a bunch of disks.  You look at the
Pentium PC on your desk, reminisce for a few moments, laugh, and toss it on
the trash pile.  With your original manuscript disks. 



--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From rcini at email.msn.com  Thu Sep  3 18:16:05 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

Hans:

>>Did you talk to them ? Their website (http://www.gmtme.com/index.html)
>>presents only a few new products - noting of the old stuff.

    No, I did not. I got the impression that the intellectual property
associated with the old MOS stuff remained with the bankruptcy estate. GMT
only purchased certain inventory on hand (probably wafers, etching
chemicals, etc.)

>     The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
> (bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
> company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
> Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the
old
> 8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
> Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
> knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.

>>I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980) toys -
Almost all of the small (and >>even some of the big)
manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
>>the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any other soft ?

    One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
bankruptcy court in Southern California.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From rcini at email.msn.com  Thu Sep  3 18:46:41 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Chain of ownership (was KIM/MOS-Tech)
Message-ID: <008d01bdd795$cfc5fd40$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

To Sam and any others:

> Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
> Roberts?  What happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

    I'll do some research on this if someone can give me a complete chain of
ownership (as far as anyone knows), approximate dates, addresses, any notes
on bankruptcies, etc.

    My attorneys are alyaws looking for interesting projects :-)

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 19:19:16 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>

yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
talking about the future of gaming. 

In a message dated 9/3/98 7:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:

> Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
>  Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
>  then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
>  world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
>  neat person.  A physicist turned programmer


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep  3 19:37:18 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980903193718.00c748b0@pc>


Finding old characters like Chris Crawford?  Sheesh, doesn't anyone
try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.) before asking a question
of the endlessly patient oracle known as this mailing list?  Crawford
is still quite active as an old wise man in the gaming industry.
If his page(s) don't show up in the first twenty hits, you're not
using the right keywords.

- John



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep  3 08:19:54 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
References: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35EE977A.387824D4@sprintmail.com>

Thank you Tony for your interest in my problem..
I will try to locate a replacment Cap tomorrow or over the weekend..
And I will just replace the defective Cap as you said..
I also agree with you that its probubly all thats wrong with the old machine...

I truly love this computer, finding not only one, but two after looking for quite
awhile was a thrill
and I look forward to some play time with my two Osborne 01's ..

I also want to thank a very nice lady from Germany named Gaby, that also echoed the
same advise as you did on the repair..

Brings up somthing I never considered about old computers that have not been used for
many years.. These two Osbornes were not powered up for over 13 years, they are in
mint condition kept inside for all these years.. I did not know that the years of
sleeping can effect Capacitors..

I am now concerned about the other one, it has an odor like something is hot also in
it comming out..
I have only had the second unit on for no more than 10 mins sofar, hopeing to sort of
break-in the old caps on it without blowing the power supply on it also..

Has anyone else had this problem with old computers befor..?

Again Thank you ..

Phil Clayton


Tony Duell wrote:

> I received your private e-mail to me as well, but I may as well reply to
> this one only.
>
> >   I pulled the whole unit apart and I now know its the Switching Power Supply..
> >
> > 1980 by Astec components LTD.
>
> Astec are a very common manufacturer of SMPSUs. They turn up in all sorts
> of machines.
>
> >
> > The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
> > blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
> > saw smoke..
> >
> > The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
> > leaking out)
> > The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP
> >
> > On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
> > touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
> > on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..
> >
>
> Hmm... The 'X' on the capacitor makes me think it may be part of the
> mains filter network. And these caps fail for no good reason and do no
> other damage.
>
> > I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
>
> Nor am I!
>
> > experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
> > tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
> > I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
> > from my friends"
> >
> >
> > So What do you think?
> > Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
>
> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get
> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't
> help you there).
>
> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would)
> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a
> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and
> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load
> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
>
> > Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?
>
> No, I think it just failed.
>
> -tony





From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep  3 21:23:21 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b214fd4ba2f7@[207.220.32.214]>

>yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
>was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
>talking about the future of gaming.

"Balance of Power" saw at least two different versions, and I'm aware of
versions for the Mac, Amiga, and PC, I'm sure there was a version for the
Atari ST, and possibly some of the 8-Bit platforms.

The PC version is interesting, came on 5.25" low density disk, and includes
a crippled version of Windows 1, that can only be used to play the game.
The Mac version will only run correctly on OLD machines such as the Mac
Plus, in fact it wants that size screen.

As for Chris Crawford I know that he wrote a book, that centered around
"Balance of Power", on the design of computer games.  I think it was
published by Microsoft Press around 1990.

				Zane


>
>In a message dated 9/3/98 7:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:
>
>> Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
>>  Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
>>  then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
>>  world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
>>  neat person.  A physicist turned programmer

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 20:15:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <35EE977A.387824D4@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 3, 98 09:19:54 am
Message-ID: <m0zEkTc-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From fmc at reanimators.org  Thu Sep  3 20:16:16 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini, Jr."'s message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:16:05 -0400
References: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

"Richard A. Cini, Jr." <rcini@email.msn.com> wrote:
>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.

At one point (before 1979) Bill Millard was pursuing an
income-sheltering scheme that involved selling IMS to a
south-of-the-border company that would liquidate it, then sell its
intellectual property to yet another company located on the Isle of
Jersey.  Said third company would license the intellectual property
back to IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. which would make and sell computers.
IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. would pay a licensing fee; the third company
would pay Millard royalties.

I gathered this was never really completed, but Millard ended up going
to some effort in an attempt to put things back the way they were,
un-incorporating the old IMS Associates Inc. and IMSAI Manufacturing
Corp. to release the names, and incorporating new ones of each.  Also
I thought that it was IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. that filed for
bankruptcy and presumably sold its assets to Fischer-Freitas.  IMS
Associates was (I think) still the parent of both IMSAI Manufacturing
Corp. and ComputerLand.

Or maybe I don't understand it at all, IANAL.  If you'd like to
explain it to me I'd appreciate it.

-Frank McConnell






From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep  3 20:36:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809040142.VAA14852@gate.usaor.net>

I have an old WANG WLTC that a Cap will explode if is left plugged in for
more than a minute without the battery in it.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 9:15 PM
>
> > Has anyone else had this problem with old computers befor..?
> 
> I've seen a Tektronix terminal where all the mains filter capacitors 
> exploded but the terminal was otherwise fine. No idea why...
> 
> -tony
> 


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep  3 20:53:11 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205136.1286B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 3 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Or maybe I don't understand it at all, IANAL.  If you'd like to
> explain it to me I'd appreciate it.

OK, this has got to be the worst acronym yet.  Are you describing your
personality, are you trying to tell us that you're not a lawyer, or
what?

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep  3 21:00:51 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980903193718.00c748b0@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205648.1286C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Sheesh, doesn't anyone try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.)
> before asking a question of the endlessly patient oracle known as this
> mailing list?

That reminds me, oh oracle, who designed the Scelbi-8H (was it Nat
Wadsworth?) and where is he now?  The last reference to somebody named Nat
Wadsworth that *might* be the right guy was a blurb in QST about a heart
attack he had in 1993, but survived. 

Has anybody attempted to create a "wahtever happended to" list of our
heros?

-- Doug



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep  3 21:30:45 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

Thanks to the advice on restoring my rained-on Osborne 1 (especially from
Tony Duell - thanks Tony), it is now up and running, and asking for a boot
disk, which of course I haven't got.

Is there any way to create a boot disk from an image, and if so where can I
find such an image?  I'm pretty sure my Osborne has a double-density
controller (it is the blue version, and the floppy drives appear to be
plugged into a daughterboard).

I addition to a PC with a 360K floppy drive, I have a copy of Sybex's
22disk and a copy of a much earlier program called ALIEN.COM, both of which
can read and write CP/M disks in a variety of formats. (BTW, does anyone
have a version of ALIEN.COM later than 1.0Fj?)

I also have a Commodore 128D, plus external 1571 and 1581 drives, and I've
found a CP/M program called Jugg'ler-128, which is supposed to allow
reading and writing of around 140 different CP/M formats (including, it
seems, Osborne 1 single-density).

So given these resources, is it possible for me to create an Osborne 1 boot
disk?  I understand that I can get one (for a small fee) from the Dina-SIG
CP/M System Disk Archives via Don Maslin, but this involves getting the
disk shipped halfway around the world, not to mention the added
complication of getting a few Australian dollars converted into (even
fewer) US dollars.

Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure
things are more complicated than that.

Thanks in advance.

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 21:44:11 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au> from "Scott McLauchlan" at Sep 4, 98 12:30:45 pm
Message-ID: <199809040244.UAA05325@calico.litterbox.com>

Osborne1 was a CPM machine, wasn't it?  If so, there's CPM for PCs that I 
would think you could build a bootable disk with... dunno.  If you need the 
CPM for PCs, lemme know and I'll e-mail you a copy.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Sep  3 23:06:07 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <199809021738.KAA02219@goodnet.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980903230607.3bff1750@intellistar.net>

At 10:38 AM 9/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Where would you recommend finding a good deal on one?  How much do they
>tend to go for?


   You can find them at used equipment dealers but they're expensive there.
 The best place to find one is in someones garage or a company like an
electrical contractors that hasn't used it much.  I paid $750 for mine (in
VERY good condition) but I've seen stuff like old 6" Logans in good
conditons for $100 to $300.  Beware though that tooling costs as  much or
more than the machine. If you can find one with tooling it will save you a
lot of time searching and a LOT of money.

  Joe



From fmc at reanimators.org  Thu Sep  3 22:14:56 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:53:11 -0500 (CDT)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205136.1286B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <199809040314.UAA02591@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote (after me):
> >IANAL.
> 
> OK, this has got to be the worst acronym yet.  Are you describing your
> personality, are you trying to tell us that you're not a lawyer, or
> what?

Well, when I typed it I was thinking "I Am Not A Lawyer", but as long
as you're asking I'll answer "all of the above."

-Frank McConnell


From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep  3 22:36:29 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net>

I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).

--Alan


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep  3 18:43:10 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
In-Reply-To: <01bdd75a$72b169e0$1428a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <199809040347.XAA19128@smtp.interlog.com>

On  3 Sep 98 at 12:46, PG Manney wrote:

> I do, I think. Lemme check.
> 
> >Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
> >for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
> >test this thing before shipping it.
> 
 Mr. Manney what happened with the IEEE serial cards ?

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep  3 18:43:09 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 2, 98 07:20:00 am
Message-ID: <199809040347.XAA19142@smtp.interlog.com>

On  3 Sep 98 at 18:35, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
> > blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
> > saw smoke..
> > 
> > The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
> > leaking out)
> > The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP
> > 
> > On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
> > touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
> > on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..
> > 
> 
> Hmm... The 'X' on the capacitor makes me think it may be part of the 
> mains filter network. And these caps fail for no good reason and do no 
> other damage.
> 
 Tony, I tend to be a board switcher now (shame) and I usually just replace the 
defective component. When I first started I was more investigative and would 
replace defective diodes etc. Dried out caps is common in older equipment and
while i've occasionally replaced them as in old audio equipment, I've always
tended to think that they would take out other parts of the circuits with them.
 Does the cap short or open when they dry out ? Thinking about it , it makes
sense that they would not damage other components as long as they did not short 
or be able to charge.
 Is this why you get failed PSU.s commonly with an intact fuse ?
 I've had 3 or 4 IBM PSU failures recently and have avoided trying to repair 
them since I think that a failed power transister usually took a bunch of other 
stuff with it and I think my time is more valuable than trying to track it 
down. Are failed electrolytyics the most common source of failures. ?
 Another source is a fan disfunction with heat causing failure. What circuit
component is most likely to die under those conditions ? Having an overview
of this you could quickly check the most likely offender and desolder it to 
check it . Of course if you had the circuit diagrams you could figure out the
RC,  pi, etc. functions but I retain little of the theory I studied long ago.
 Whatever the lackings of the IBM service manuals, they , like the army
give you step by step processes and leave little to initiative.

> > I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
> 
> Nor am I!
> 
> > experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
> > tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
> > I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
> > from my friends"
> > 
> > 
> > So What do you think?
> > Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
> 
> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
> help you there). 
> 
> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
> 
> > Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?
> 
> No, I think it just failed.
> 
> -tony
> 
 You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W
bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 

 I must admit that you and Jason P have inspired me to go back to basics.
 I should warn you I have an IBM PS1 SVGA monitor I just acquired that
I will be asking for guidance on , and if the stuff thats been on the list 
lately isn't off topic a svga sure as fuck isn't. :^))

ciao  Larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Thu Sep  3 22:48:39 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809040348.NAA24994@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 12:30 PM 04-09-98 +1000, Scott McLauchlan wrote:

>Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
>with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
>this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
>originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure
>things are more complicated than that.

As you can tell from my e-mail address, I'm a little closer to you than a
lot of others on the list.

I can't talk about the legality of getting copies of Wordstar et al, but
I'm sure it'll be OK to get you a copy of the necessary disks to get your
O1 up again. I've got them all at home. I'm off for a week to train as a
"pointy head" but I'll see what I can do on my return.

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep  3 11:08:52 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
References: <199809040244.UAA05325@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35EEBF14.3774657E@sprintmail.com>

Jim :
    If you have or even know where I could get a copy CP/M  for my PC I sure
would apperciate it..
Did you say you could email it?

As for Scott , I would be glad to send him a copy of my Osborne CP/M via Snail
Mail of he likes..

But I would personally love to have a copy of CP/M for my DOS machine, sounds
very
cool to me....

Could you email me a copy...?

Thank You..

Phil Clayton



Jim wrote:

> Osborne1 was a CPM machine, wasn't it?  If so, there's CPM for PCs that I
> would think you could build a bootable disk with... dunno.  If you need the
> CPM for PCs, lemme know and I'll e-mail you a copy.
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------





From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 22:57:18 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 3, 98 11:36:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>

Here's what I know.

Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.
80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface  goes in 1.

As far as the operating system, you can ftp it down from apple - of course
you need an apple to write the disks.  You can also order the OS disks from
alltech (www.allelec.com) for less than 10 bucks, I think.  Alltech also
carries a surprizing number of *new* and refurbished hardware for the 2s
including roms, disk drives, interface cards, motherboards, ICs, monitors, and
so on.  Even hard disks at VERY reasonable prices.

There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There 
WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the 
a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating
software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not, 
as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)

The other good place for information are the apple2 and apple2pro(grammer)
forums on Delphi.  You can get delphi web access for free by hitting their
web site - www.delphi.com.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 23:04:16 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <35EEBF14.3774657E@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 3, 98 12:08:52 pm
Message-ID: <199809040404.WAA05809@calico.litterbox.com>

I'd be delighted, but you'll have to send me your e-mail address.  The 
listserver seems to be pretty thorough excising it from the headers.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep  3 23:24:01 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980903212258.10092A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Scott McLauchlan wrote:

> Thanks to the advice on restoring my rained-on Osborne 1 (especially from
> Tony Duell - thanks Tony), it is now up and running, and asking for a boot
> disk, which of course I haven't got.
> 
> Is there any way to create a boot disk from an image, and if so where can I
> find such an image?  I'm pretty sure my Osborne has a double-density
> controller (it is the blue version, and the floppy drives appear to be
> plugged into a daughterboard).
> 
> I addition to a PC with a 360K floppy drive, I have a copy of Sybex's
> 22disk and a copy of a much earlier program called ALIEN.COM, both of which
> can read and write CP/M disks in a variety of formats. (BTW, does anyone
> have a version of ALIEN.COM later than 1.0Fj?)
> 
> I also have a Commodore 128D, plus external 1571 and 1581 drives, and I've
> found a CP/M program called Jugg'ler-128, which is supposed to allow
> reading and writing of around 140 different CP/M formats (including, it
> seems, Osborne 1 single-density).
> 
> So given these resources, is it possible for me to create an Osborne 1 boot
> disk?  I understand that I can get one (for a small fee) from the Dina-SIG
> CP/M System Disk Archives via Don Maslin, but this involves getting the
> disk shipped halfway around the world, not to mention the added
> complication of getting a few Australian dollars converted into (even
> fewer) US dollars.
> 
> Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
> with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
> this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
> originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure

That has always been my thesis!
						 - don

> things are more complicated than that.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> |         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
> |       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
> |      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
> | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |
> 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
    visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm




From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Thu Sep  3 21:11:31 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Someone left the "confirmation on read" on.  tsk.
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
References: "Richard A. Cini, Jr."'s message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:16:05 -0400
Message-ID: <199809040548.BAA08263@commercial.cgocable.net>

Guys,

Please kindly turn this feature off!

This happened at least to 2 topics.
Sorry, both had Send-to addressed to classicomp mailing list not
to real users who enabled it.

Osborne PSU smoked and cdrom discussions.

Thanks!

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From sethm at loomcom.com  Fri Sep  4 01:58:08 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Looking for a rack...
Message-ID: <199809040658.XAA01384@loomcom.com>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:45:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904004525.2588A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

How awesome to have someone with the ambition and the resources to do
something like this.  Just awesome!  Thanks, Richard!!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:49:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904004903.2588C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
> was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
> talking about the future of gaming. 

_Balance of Power_ perhaps?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:56:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <v04011707b214fd4ba2f7@[207.220.32.214]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904005616.2588F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> "Balance of Power" saw at least two different versions, and I'm aware of
> versions for the Mac, Amiga, and PC, I'm sure there was a version for the
> Atari ST, and possibly some of the 8-Bit platforms.

FYI, there was an Apple ][ version.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:10:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904005826.2588G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 3 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
> Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.
> 
> At one point (before 1979) Bill Millard was pursuing an
> income-sheltering scheme that involved selling IMS to a
> south-of-the-border company that would liquidate it, then sell its
> intellectual property to yet another company located on the Isle of
> Jersey.  Said third company would license the intellectual property
> back to IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. which would make and sell computers.
> IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. would pay a licensing fee; the third company
> would pay Millard royalties.
> 
> I gathered this was never really completed, but Millard ended up going
> to some effort in an attempt to put things back the way they were,
> un-incorporating the old IMS Associates Inc. and IMSAI Manufacturing
> Corp. to release the names, and incorporating new ones of each.  Also
> I thought that it was IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. that filed for
> bankruptcy and presumably sold its assets to Fischer-Freitas.  IMS
> Associates was (I think) still the parent of both IMSAI Manufacturing
> Corp. and ComputerLand.

In my reading of the book (which you so graciously let me
borrow...thanks...but I haven't been able to locate my own copy yet) I
recall that this is basically correct.  Millard was on his way to
completing this strange incorporation in order to avoid paying corporate
taxes in the U.S.  But the backing partners freaked out over it and
demanded he cease and desist because the way he was structuring it would
have made the backing partners' share of the company worthless (my memory
is getting a bit sketchy now about the details but that was the gist of
it).  After this he started the ComputerLand chain concept, which began to
take off.  He then spitefully let IMSAI run itself into the ground so he
could declare bankruptcy, maneuvering to absolve his obligation to the
backing partners of IMSAI (in a nutshell...it was carried out in a
non-obvious manner in an attempt to circumvent the backing partners'
onwership).  However, there was one little note that threw a wrench into
his master plan that was later capitalized on in the subsequent trials
over ownership of ComputerLand.  Basically the argument was that an
investment into IMSAI at some point legally went towards the financing of
ComputerLand, and therefore the US$6 billion ComputerLand empire was not
Millard's alone, but was shared by the initial backers in IMSAI, as well
as a principal of IMSAI who had purchased the note from the initial
backers and had been selling shares in the note to other people to support
his subsequent hair-brained schemes. 

Its as complicated as it sounds.  The book is a great read!  Not written
all that competently, but a fascinating.  An amazing tale of treachery and
deceit.  Bill Millard was one of those crooked sons-a-bitches you wouldn't
want to buy an Apple from...sort of like my ex-boss. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:11:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205648.1286C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011118.2588H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> That reminds me, oh oracle, who designed the Scelbi-8H (was it Nat
> Wadsworth?) and where is he now?  The last reference to somebody named Nat
> Wadsworth that *might* be the right guy was a blurb in QST about a heart
> attack he had in 1993, but survived. 
> 
> Has anybody attempted to create a "wahtever happended to" list of our
> heros?

That's what you're supposed to research when you create your Nerd Trading
Cards (tm).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:14:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011400.2588I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:

> I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
> laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
> any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
> mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
> for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).

Not old-timers but people who spent enough time with it growing up to help
you out.

For starters, do you have a case and power supply?  The case is optional
but the P/S is mandatory unfortunately.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:24:10 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> Here's what I know.
> 
> Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.

Actually, floppy controller can go in ANY slot.  But typically, slot 6
(not 5) was used.

> 80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface goes
> in 1. 

Again, only by custom do the cards go where you specify.  You can stick
the cards in whatever slot you'd like.  There were SOME video cards that
had to go in slot 7 which had a special video signal present on that slot
only.

> There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There 
> WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
> and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the 
> a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating

This guy was a mega turd.  Although his FAQ was good, and his amazingly
peurile action of obliterating the FAQ over his personal holy war against
perceived or actual piracy of mostly obsolete software was indeed bizarre,
there are plenty of replacement FAQs available to help out the novice.

> software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not, 
> as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)

This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
alone.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Sep  4 05:38:48 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Toshiba 3100e/40, locks up??
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980904063848.006880ac@mail.wincom.net>


	Just received a pair of 3100e/40's. One seems ok, the other will boot ok
but after about four minutes the screen will freeze and the keyboard will
become completely inoperative.
	Turning it off and on results in three or four bright vertical lines on
the screen and no other activity. Turning it off for twenty minutes or so
results in it booting up normally as above.
	Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to start?

								Regards

								Charlie Fox



From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:42:50 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC429.6988@bright.net>

Jim wrote:
> 
> Here's what I know.
> 
> Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.
> 80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface  goes in 1.
> 
> As far as the operating system, you can ftp it down from apple - of course
> you need an apple to write the disks.  You can also order the OS disks from
> alltech (www.allelec.com) for less than 10 bucks, I think.  Alltech also
> carries a surprizing number of *new* and refurbished hardware for the 2s
> including roms, disk drives, interface cards, motherboards, ICs, monitors, and
> so on.  Even hard disks at VERY reasonable prices.
> 
> There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There
> WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
> and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the
> a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating
> software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not,
> as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)
> 
> The other good place for information are the apple2 and apple2pro(grammer)
> forums on Delphi.  You can get delphi web access for free by hitting their
> web site - www.delphi.com.
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my message. The information you
provided is very helpful. I know what you mean about the software
privacy issue regarding commercial software.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:49:47 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011400.2588I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC5CB.1362@bright.net>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:
> 
> > I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
> > laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
> > any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
> > mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
> > for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).
> 
> Not old-timers but people who spent enough time with it growing up to help
> you out.
> 
> For starters, do you have a case and power supply?  The case is optional
> but the P/S is mandatory unfortunately.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com

Sam,
Yes, the motherboards are still in the cases and have the power
supplies, keyboards, cards, ect. Later today I will get back to you with
the model number written on the case.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:57:58 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC7B6.6996@bright.net>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
> There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
> are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
> going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
> would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
> alone.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 

Sam,
I was not aware of this. I will look through my archives. I downloaded
some Apple II FAQs about a year ago from somewhere on the web. Perhaps
it was the person you mentioned who authored them.

--Alan


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 08:12:11 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <9808049049.AA904940034@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Larry and Tony are discussing a blown capacitor...
 
>> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
>> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
>> help you there). 
>> 
>> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
>> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
>> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
>> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
>> it's safe to try it in the computer again.

[...]
 
>  You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
> memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
> a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
> Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W 
> bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 

Eh?  6V 6W bulb is exactly what Tony suggested.

To be more specific, many power supplies have regulator circuits that 
expect some current to be flowing in the load.  These PSUs will push out 
the wrong voltages, or shut down altogether, if you power them up with 
nothing on the output.

Therefore, when testing power supplies, connect some sort of load device 
- it doesn't matter what as long as it draws roughly the right amount of 
current - to the output.  Most computer PSUs regulate the voltage on the 
5V rail and hope all the others will follow, so this is the best place 
to connect the load.

Light bulbs make good dummy loads because (a) they light up when the 
current is flowing and (b) they are relatively small, cheap and easy to 
obtain compared with (say) resistors of similar value.

12V bulbs (e.g. car running lamp (0.3 A) or indicator lamp (1.75 A)) are 
good for loading 12V lines should you need it.

6V bulbs are good for loading 5V lines.  6V 6W flashlight bulb is good 
for small and medium PSUs; for larger power supplies I use a 6V 24W car 
headlamp bulb (yes, my truck has 6V electrics).  12V bulbs also work at 
5V, but remeber they have a much lower resistance at 5V than they do at 
12.

DON'T use the "power good" line to connect the dummy load.  This is a 
digital output - usually TTL level - which can only drive a few mA.

DO connect the "voltage sense" line(s) to the load as well as +5V and 
ground.

Philip.



From rcini at email.msn.com  Fri Sep  4 07:05:21 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <013601bdd7fe$34cf2e60$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

On 03 Sep 1998 18:16:16 -0700, Frank McConnell <fmc@reanimators.org> wrote:

>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

>>Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
>>Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.

    I'll try to locate a copy. This is all part of learning about a
particular computer line...I was about 11 at the time, so my focus was on
playing in the park, not computers.

    Thanks for the input.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Sep  4 08:31:03 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <4F1A121151@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On  4 Sep 98 at 1:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> This guy was a mega turd.  Although his FAQ was good, and his amazingly
> peurile action of obliterating the FAQ over his personal holy war against
> perceived or actual piracy of mostly obsolete software was indeed bizarre,
> there are plenty of replacement FAQs available to help out the novice.

The "new" FAQs can be downloaded from the Ground FTP server at 
ground.ecn.uiowa.edu


> This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!

Things have improved on the csa2 newsgroup following NM's departure. 
You forgot to mention his trademark "read the FAQ, stupid" response to 
every naive question. As you said, definitely a group for the 
sociologists to enjoy in years to come on Dejanews...

Phil 
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 13:07:48 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EFC5CB.1362@bright.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904110655.2885A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:

> Yes, the motherboards are still in the cases and have the power
> supplies, keyboards, cards, ect. Later today I will get back to you with
> the model number written on the case.

No need for the model number.  Its pretty irrelevant.  Tell us what cards
you have.  Most should have a name on the card that indicates what it is,
ie. "Disk ][ Controller".

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep  4 11:33:11 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <9808049049.AA904940034@compsci.powertech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199809042036.QAA03872@smtp.interlog.com>

On  4 Sep 98 at 13:12, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote:

> Larry and Tony are discussing a blown capacitor...
>  
> >> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
> >> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
> >> help you there). 
> >> 
> >> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
> >> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
> >> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
> >> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
> >> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
> 
> [...]
>  
> >  You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
> > memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
> > a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
> > Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W 
> > bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 
> 
> Eh?  6V 6W bulb is exactly what Tony suggested.
> 
Oops. I meant 6V 9W

> To be more specific, many power supplies have regulator circuits that 
> expect some current to be flowing in the load.  These PSUs will push out 
> the wrong voltages, or shut down altogether, if you power them up with 
> nothing on the output.
> 
> Therefore, when testing power supplies, connect some sort of load device 
> - it doesn't matter what as long as it draws roughly the right amount of 
> current - to the output.  Most computer PSUs regulate the voltage on the 
> 5V rail and hope all the others will follow, so this is the best place 
> to connect the load.
> 
> Light bulbs make good dummy loads because (a) they light up when the 
> current is flowing and (b) they are relatively small, cheap and easy to 
> obtain compared with (say) resistors of similar value.
> 
> 12V bulbs (e.g. car running lamp (0.3 A) or indicator lamp (1.75 A)) are 
> good for loading 12V lines should you need it.
> 
> 6V bulbs are good for loading 5V lines.  6V 6W flashlight bulb is good 
> for small and medium PSUs; for larger power supplies I use a 6V 24W car 
> headlamp bulb (yes, my truck has 6V electrics).  12V bulbs also work at 
> 5V, but remeber they have a much lower resistance at 5V than they do at 
> 12.
> 
> DON'T use the "power good" line to connect the dummy load.  This is a 
> digital output - usually TTL level - which can only drive a few mA.
> 
 Hmmm. Now I'm confused (as always). Wouldn't that mean you'd have to
leave the "power good" (orange ?) line connected to the motherboard otherwise
the PSU would shut down ? Was why I mentioned the higher W rating.

> DO connect the "voltage sense" line(s) to the load as well as +5V and 
> ground.
> 
> Philip.

 Ahh this seems like the source of my confusion about this. What is the
difference between the "power good" and the "voltage sense" lines ?
 For example, most of computer PSUs I've seen have up to 12 lines connected  
to the MB sometimes segmented into 2 groups. One of these groups has a
uniquely color-coded line ( orange ?) which I took to be the PG line. the 
conectors for the peripheral devices have 4 lines 2 of which are usually black
(ground or neutral) and there's usually a red which I believe is "hot or 
positive" Is the 4th line (usually blue or yellow) the "voltage sense" line ?

BTW is there any color-code convention for wire like the one for resistors and 
other components ? Green is always ground in most applications for example.

 I also have an IBM 8557 which is a SCSI mchn that has 4 heavy-guage red and
black connected to the PSU as well as a connector with 7 smaller guage wires 
( 2 blu, y, wh, or, bla, brn). The heavy guage are obviously power but what are
the rest for ? The orange I take it is PG ,the black neg. or return. The device 
plugs are red, bla, bla, blu. no smaller perp. plug. I guess the 3 1/2" FDD 
takes power from the SCSI bus.  

ciao		larry
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep  4 11:33:10 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EFC7B6.6996@bright.net>
Message-ID: <199809042037.QAA03894@smtp.interlog.com>

On  4 Sep 98 at 6:57, oajones wrote:

> Sam Ismail wrote:
> > 
> > This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> > whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> > with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
> > There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
> > are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
> > going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
> > would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
> > alone.
> > 
> > Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
> 
> Sam,
> I was not aware of this. I will look through my archives. I downloaded
> some Apple II FAQs about a year ago from somewhere on the web. Perhaps
> it was the person you mentioned who authored them.
> 
> --Alan
> 
 Actually, it was quite hilarious when it wasn't tedious. TMK Nathan Mates
and his supporters are now ensconced on the Delphi A2 forum.
 comp.sys.apple2 has settled down into a more rational newsgroup with
only an occasional flurry sparked by a NM type doing a guerilla attack.
 I downloaded NM's FAQ before he pulled it. I wonder what the status
of this formerly freely-distributed property is. Hmmm , might be fun to
upload it to the Asimov site and see the sparks fly.  :^))

ciao		larry
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Sep  4 16:24:22 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980904172422.006881f4@mail.wincom.net>


	Problem has apparently been solved by re-seating the 286 chip and putting
silicon grease between the chip and the heatsink. It has been going now for
several hours.
	Thanks anyway, folks.

							Cheers

							Charlie Fox



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 16:52:54 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
References: <3.0.2.32.19980904172422.006881f4@mail.wincom.net>
Message-ID: <35F06135.267AD6DE@bbtel.com>

Next best thing to thermal transfer compound. Evidentally the 286 chip is one of the
older non-C types that generate a lot of heat

Charles E. Fox wrote:

>         Problem has apparently been solved by re-seating the 286 chip and putting
> silicon grease between the chip and the heatsink. It has been going now for
> several hours.
>         Thanks anyway, folks.
>
>                                                         Cheers
>
>                                                         Charlie Fox



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 12:57:05 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809040347.XAA19142@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 3, 98 11:43:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zF06f-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 13:17:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 4, 98 01:24:10 am
Message-ID: <m0zF0Q9-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 19:26:10 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <4F1A121151@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <35F08521.4AA6@bright.net>

Phil Beesley wrote:
> 
> The "new" FAQs can be downloaded from the Ground FTP server at
> ground.ecn.uiowa.edu
> 

Phil,

Thanks for giving us the link. I just checked it out. It is nice to
know  I can find help there too!

--Alan


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  4 20:55:26 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21649aa10a7@[207.220.32.167]>

>1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
>top bay.

I _might_ be interested in this.  How much of the rack does the CPU cabinet
take up?  Is there room in the rack for a couple of RL drives (ie, one
above, one below)?  Also, any idea cash wise what you want for it?

I heard from Joe Rigdon that Paxton's big auction was delayed, so I sent
him e-mail last night.  He actually answered back today (surprise,
surprise), and it's delayed for at least a couple weeks.  Of course I just
went through hell arranging to be free those days.

				Zane



| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 19:35:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809042036.QAA03872@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 4, 98 04:33:11 pm
Message-ID: <m0zF6K3-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From mbg at world.std.com  Fri Sep  4 20:04:27 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
Message-ID: <199809050104.AA21592@world.std.com>

That is probably room for *an* RL02 or RA8x at the top of the cab...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:18:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zF06f-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904181730.29915E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> semiconductors have failed. If the supply is 'tweeting' then the most 
> likely problem is either a short on the secondary side (e.g. a shorted 

Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
described above?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 20:12:14 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net>

The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
(IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
(loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped
suddenly, or if the chip would move due to expansion and contraction of the
chip from heat, it would need to reseated.  There was also VERY little
airflow in those machines.  The power supply has a 1 1/2" fan, and the hard
drive and floppy drive were directly in front of the internal air vents,
basically blocking the already limited (because of fan size) airflow.  The
HD controller was also buried under the hot power supply.  The controller
would heat up, and the P/S would heat up, causing the HD controller to blow
from overheating, and making it seem like the heads in the HD were stuck
(don't know if toshiba did this on purpose...).  The HD's, if you can find
one are around $150 for a 20 meg.  I don't know the cost of the
controllers, because I sold the thing for parts before I even thought about
looking in to it.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

PS>> when the P/S starts blowing out air about as hot as a hair dryer set
on "low" (about an hour and a half), you better turn it off an let it cool
down for a bit (or just put it on ice).

----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake@bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 5:52 PM
> 
> Next best thing to thermal transfer compound. Evidentally the 286 chip is
one of the
> older non-C types that generate a lot of heat
> 
>  ___________________________________________________
> 
>  Russ Blakeman
>  Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
>  Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
>  Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
>  Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
>  ICQ UIN #1714857
>  ___________________________________________________
> 
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 20:16:06 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809050121.VAA29630@gate.usaor.net>

normally one of the components is trying to do something with the power,
but it can't.  sort of like when you short a wall transformer and it starts
to hum.  Another example is how some of the old computer screens or TV's
sometimes put a high-pitched whistle.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:18 PM
> 
> On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> > semiconductors have failed. If the supply is 'tweeting' then the most 
> > likely problem is either a short on the secondary side (e.g. a shorted 
> 
> Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
> described above?
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:24:09 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <m0zF0Q9-000IyPC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904182108.29915F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> Also slot 0 (far left, nearest the PSU) is odd in software. You can't 
> access it with the standard PR# and IN# commands like you can all other 
> slots. In general only put language cards and Applesoft ROM cards there.

It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
"language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
slot.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:53:39 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809050121.VAA29630@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904185246.29915I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> > Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
> > described above?
> > 
> normally one of the components is trying to do something with the power,
> but it can't.  sort of like when you short a wall transformer and it starts
> to hum.  Another example is how some of the old computer screens or TV's
> sometimes put a high-pitched whistle.

But what part is making such vibrations that it actually causes sound
waves to be emitted?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 21:10:26 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>

Hello everybody.

I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).  However, his solution
to fixing it was to drag it up the steps on sheet of plywood and let it sit
in the rain for three weeks.  Then he gave it to me because he was afraid
to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
the picture tube. 

 After everything had dried for about a week, I put it all back together,
and turned it on.  The tube came on with a bunch of crazy characters on the
screen.  I took the main board out, propped it up behind the computer,
tried it again, and the screen came up with the "Diskette ?" prompt.  I put
in a copy of TRS-DOS (unsubmerged), and hit reset.  ERROR came up in
40-column letters.  I shut it off, and pulled the drives.  I stuck (well
more like jammed- it was too wide) a 5.25" 360 half-height drive in it (it
ended up at an angle and upside down to fit), and tried that.  That time it
worked, booting to the TRS-DOS screen, asking for a date.  I typed
"09/01/98".  Nothing.  I took a key off the keyboard to try to clean it,
and they are the sealed-switch type.  I had to unsolder each switch, take
each one apart, clean it, put it back together, and solder it back to the
board.  However, I just cleaned the <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.

Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:

-5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
be TRS-80).
-External TRS-80 disk drives.
-Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
-TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
-Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
-TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)


I'm also looking for anything for the CoCo Model I and II - ESPECIALLY disk
drives and a printer.

As always, ThAnX in advance,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 21:23:29 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net>

It could be, as in the case of the adapter, a transformer.  It could also
be a capacitor.  I don't know how they make sound, but when I used to turn
off my old Leading Edge, there was a high-voltage Cap that would make a
loud *Chirp!*, then whistle, and the whistle would die down in a few
seconds.  It did the same thing when it was turned on, but backwards.  It
would start out as a soft whistle, get louder, then disappear, as the sound
probably went out of the range of human hearing.  It sounded sort of like
when a computer would power up in an old Sci-Fi movie.

Is the computer otherwise working fine?  if it is, and there's no smoke or
crackling sounds (like heating of coils or other components) after it's
been on for a while, I wouldn't worry.  

Is it a constant, high-pitched whistle?  Not being familiar with the
Osborne 01, dose it have a built-in CRT?  It could be that that's
whistling.  Try booting it with the CRT and control board (the thing with
the high voltage transformer with the wire going to the side of the CRT)
TOTALLY disconnected, and see if it still whistles.  If it doesn't, then
you've found the problem.  

As for fixing a whistling CRT, I haven't figured it out, yet (If anybody
knows how, could they please tell me?).  The only problems that I've seen
the whistling do is possibly make your ears hurt.  My current solution: 
wear ear plugs when using my Tandy 1000.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:53 PM
> 
> But what part is making such vibrations that it actually causes sound
> waves to be emitted?
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 21:54:43 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
References: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F0A7F3.24E7A757@bbtel.com>



Jason Willgruber wrote:

> The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
> (IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
> (loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
> of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped
> suddenly, or if the chip would move due to expansion and contraction of the
> chip from heat, it would need to reseated.  There was also VERY little
> airflow in those machines.  The power supply has a 1 1/2" fan, and the hard
> drive and floppy drive were directly in front of the internal air vents,
> basically blocking the already limited (because of fan size) airflow.  The
> HD controller was also buried under the hot power supply.  The controller
> would heat up, and the P/S would heat up, causing the HD controller to blow
> from overheating, and making it seem like the heads in the HD were stuck
> (don't know if toshiba did this on purpose...).  The HD's, if you can find
> one are around $150 for a 20 meg.  I don't know the cost of the
> controllers, because I sold the thing for parts before I even thought about
> looking in to it.

Oh I know the type your talking about, square 286 clamped in with pressure
contacts on all four sides. The last one I saw like that was in a Delta Gold I
had over 10 years ago. It had the white thermal compound on it to the heat sink
cover but of course that unit had more than enough air flow being a desktop
case, unless you got sloppy and let the ribbon cables block the air. I've only
worked on 2 T3100's and that was external work so I can't attest to what may be
inside.

So the hard drives are a special type huh?

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 22:03:17 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
References: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F0A9F4.50429596@bbtel.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Hello everybody.
>
> I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
> sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
> it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).

> <snip>

> <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
> enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.

More time and patience than I have!

> Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:
>
> -5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
> be TRS-80).
> -External TRS-80 disk drives.
> -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> -TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
> -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> -TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)

Check the stuff Frank Larosa has on his site at
http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm

He has a Model III set up with external drives to include a 3.5" drive. I'm not
sure what you can do for a hard drive but if you can get some makes/models I
can see what I can scrounge up. As for a full height floppy, the one you have
is most likely a Tandon belt drive and you should be able to lube and clean it
and get it back on line with a little more detailing. Most likely the head(s)
need to be cleaned with denatured alcohol and the mechanism all lubed
(liberally and then wiped off) with a silicone based oil, much like sewing
machine oil. I do use sewing machine oil, the type they have at Walmart in a
white and red bottle sold under the Singer name. I just refill the needle oiler
I bought at tandy some years ago. Use it on VCRs, appliances, etc.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  4 23:30:24 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b21649aa10a7@[207.220.32.167]>
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <v04011702b2166eba2f0e@[192.168.1.2]>

Doh, I hate quick replies, that was meant to go directly to Jim.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 22:20:00 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <199809050336.XAA22007@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake@bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:54 PM
> 
> 
> Oh I know the type your talking about, square 286 clamped in with
pressure
> contacts on all four sides. The last one I saw like that was in a Delta
Gold I
> had over 10 years ago. It had the white thermal compound on it to the
heat sink
> cover but of course that unit had more than enough air flow being a
desktop
> case, unless you got sloppy and let the ribbon cables block the air. I've
only
> worked on 2 T3100's and that was external work so I can't attest to what
may be
> inside.
>
They were supposed to have the terminal compound between the chip and
processor.  Toshiba didn't put the compound on, leading to another
premature failure and more excess heat.
> 
> So the hard drives are a special type huh?
> 
They were made by JVC and had a 26 pin (IIRC) connector, with no power
connector.  My WANG WLTC has the 10MB version of the JVC drive, and my
Tandy 1400HD has an ALPS 20MB with the same connector.  I think they were
fairly common in old laptops, but just fairly hard to find now.  The drive
usually didn't go bad in the Toshiba.  It was the controller.  I know two
people who replaced the HD, only to find that it didn't work, either.  They
sent the HD's back to the company and scrapped the computers.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 22:30:38 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809050337.XAA22024@gate.usaor.net>



> 
> Check the stuff Frank Larosa has on his site at
> http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm
> 
> He has a Model III set up with external drives to include a 3.5" drive.
I'm not
> sure what you can do for a hard drive but if you can get some
makes/models I
> can see what I can scrounge up. As for a full height floppy, the one you
have
> is most likely a Tandon belt drive and you should be able to lube and
clean it
> and get it back on line with a little more detailing. Most likely the
head(s)
> need to be cleaned with denatured alcohol and the mechanism all lubed
> (liberally and then wiped off) with a silicone based oil, much like
sewing
> machine oil. I do use sewing machine oil, the type they have at Walmart
in a
> white and red bottle sold under the Singer name. I just refill the needle
oiler
> I bought at tandy some years ago. Use it on VCRs, appliances, etc.
> 

I may be able to get the lower drive working by oiling it, but not the
upper drive.  My friend's 4-year old cousin put a penny in the top of the
computer, and it fell on the disk drive PCB.  When I took the computer
apart, the penny was still there - fused to the top of the board, with a
black ring around it.  I'm not sure if they're Tandon or ALPS.  The
keyboard was made by ALPS, but I didn't look at the drives.

I looked at Frank's TRS-80, and I tried to put my drive in it, but it was
too long and wide.  I noticed that his was a Model 4.  It may have a
different drive mount.  From the picture, the mount looks like it's shiny
metal.  Mine's a dull, gray plastic.

I'll try to get the model numbers from it.  I think the stickers are still
on there.



From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu  Sat Sep  5 00:24:45 1998
From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Fwd: CBM 4032 Pet info request
Message-ID: <199809050524.BAA22224@dgs.cs.unc.edu>

I got e-mail from Adrienne Carter at Money Magazine (!) asking about
the value "either financially or sentimentally" of the Commodore 4032
Pet.  I pointed her at e-bay, but she doesn't seem to be just looking
for a place to sell one.  Unfortunately, I don't know much anything
about those machines.  So, if any of you out there want to chat about
that machine, kindly write to her at this address after removing the
letter "x"s from it: Adrixenne_Carter@tixmexinc.com .

	Thanks,
	Bill.



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:01:40 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
References: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F09B84.833948D4@sprintmail.com>

Jason, I think the problem is that the original version of TRSDOS you are using
will not accept a date after 1989.
As you say it boots fine to a date prompt..
You will need to get LDOS to correct this funny flaw in the operating system.
Guess They never expected them to be around so long..
But it sound like you have it working..

Phil...

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Hello everybody.
>
> I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
> sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
> it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).  However, his solution
> to fixing it was to drag it up the steps on sheet of plywood and let it sit
> in the rain for three weeks.  Then he gave it to me because he was afraid
> to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
> down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
> to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
> the picture tube.
>
>  After everything had dried for about a week, I put it all back together,
> and turned it on.  The tube came on with a bunch of crazy characters on the
> screen.  I took the main board out, propped it up behind the computer,
> tried it again, and the screen came up with the "Diskette ?" prompt.  I put
> in a copy of TRS-DOS (unsubmerged), and hit reset.  ERROR came up in
> 40-column letters.  I shut it off, and pulled the drives.  I stuck (well
> more like jammed- it was too wide) a 5.25" 360 half-height drive in it (it
> ended up at an angle and upside down to fit), and tried that.  That time it
> worked, booting to the TRS-DOS screen, asking for a date.  I typed
> "09/01/98".  Nothing.  I took a key off the keyboard to try to clean it,
> and they are the sealed-switch type.  I had to unsolder each switch, take
> each one apart, clean it, put it back together, and solder it back to the
> board.  However, I just cleaned the <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
> enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.
>
> Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:
>
> -5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
> be TRS-80).
> -External TRS-80 disk drives.
> -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> -TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
> -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> -TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)
>
> I'm also looking for anything for the CoCo Model I and II - ESPECIALLY disk
> drives and a printer.
>
> As always, ThAnX in advance,
> --
>          -Jason
> (roblwill@usaor.net)
>    ICQ#-1730318





From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sat Sep  5 05:22:12 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
In-Reply-To: <199809050336.XAA22007@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <199809051358.JAA16655@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:20:00 -0400
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Jason Willgruber" <roblwill@usaor.net>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> X-To:          <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

> premature failure and more excess heat.
> > 
> > So the hard drives are a special type huh?
> > 
> They were made by JVC and had a 26 pin (IIRC) connector, with no power
> connector.  My WANG WLTC has the 10MB version of the JVC drive, and my
> Tandy 1400HD has an ALPS 20MB with the same connector.  I think they were
> fairly common in old laptops, but just fairly hard to find now.  The drive
> usually didn't go bad in the Toshiba.  It was the controller.  I know two
> people who replaced the HD, only to find that it didn't work, either.  They
> sent the HD's back to the company and scrapped the computers.
> --       
>          -Jason
> (roblwill@usaor.net)
>    ICQ#-1730318
> 
Ditto in several models of Zenith laptops as well that used
26 pin JVC type HD's.    I REALLY loathe those!
When some finds like this, usually HD is blown (that is from my 
experience).

Best solution is find a old scsi bios based ISA card and a low power
scsi HD avgerage 3 to 8W.  Find a way to adapt it in.  On Zenith 
series, the 8 bit isa slot on back is missing a 5V power,  I hooked 
from 5V source from inside which works.

This is really dodgy hack but that is real start.  I still have the 
ZWL-193-xx laptop with nice grey-blue screen.  Later on when thigns 
is slow, will trace out that pinouts on that motherboard side 2 
connectors using the ISA pins as reference and some tracing.

T1600 is nice BUT uses EGA LCD (wierd, imho should be VGA at that 
point).  Did Toshiba sold those T1600 series with either JVC 26pin 
and real IDE (better!) by different "controller boards"?

My suggestion to your 3200e, pull that whole socket and that sick 
CPU and install a 68pin PLCC and  find a HARRIS or any 80C286 PLCC 
and plug that in.   That CPU is no good after long time of use at 
hotter temperatures and beginning to fail plus that socket is 
getting bad as you have seen.

My choice:  T5200 (cached 386 with vga plasma, prolly use real IDE 
port) or other T4400 using 486 CPU.  What's your pick?

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Sat Sep  5 09:35:59 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: FW: FREE PDP-11/73 with tape drive in Cheshire
References: <6srbfq$c0f$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <35F14C4F.98D9D613@my-dejanews.com>

ATTN: Rescuers in England/UK! This fellow's looking for a home for a
MicroPDP-11/73, and it sounds like it's well-equipped. Please contact
him directly if interested.

-=-=- <snip> -=-=-

From: 
                 helbig@man.ac.uk (Phillip Helbig)
       Newsgroups: 
                 comp.sys.dec
          Subject: 
                 free VAX 11/73 with tape drive in Cheshire
            Date: 
                 5 Sep 1998 12:40:26 GMT
       Organization: 
                 University of Manchester, NRAL
       Message-ID: 
                 <6srbfq$c0f$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>
         Reply-To: 
                 p.helbig@jb.man.ac.uk
 NNTP-Posting-Host: 
                 multivac.jb.man.ac.uk
            Lines: 
                 48
            Path: 
                
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!peer.news.bb.u-net.net!u-net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!man.ac.uk!HELBIG




As mentioned before, I'm planning on doing inventory on some old VAX 
stuff I have and having a big give-away in a few weeks.  By the way, I'm 
still looking for stuff myself, especially tape drives (8mm) and bigger 
SCSI disks---see http://multivac.jb.man.ac.uk:8000/helbig/vms/vax.txt .
I especially want VAXstation 4000 or VAXstation 3100 boxes.

When picking up my last lot, I decided to save an 11/73 from
destruction, hoping I could give it a good home.  I don't know much
about it except that it has a good tape drive in it and two sizes of
floppies (no, neither is 3?"---5" and 8").  I need to get rid of this
quickly, as it is filling up my car and making it difficult to drive. 
It's a rack-mount. 

If you want it, then come and get it, but you better hurry 'cause it's 
going fast.  Previous experience shows that there is a big demand for 
these old systems.  It's first come, first served.  I would prefer 
people who will take it in any case, as there's not much point in 
looking at it and I want to unload it directly from my car into your 
vehicle.

I could arrange to obtain some manuals and perhaps even software 
distribution media, but not before you pick up the VAX (since I don't 
want to drive anywhere with it in my car); you could come back for them 
or I could probably tell you where to pick them up, perhaps on the way 
to picking up the VAX.

Email is the best way to contact me, though the other methods below are 
OK as well.

I barely managed to get it in the back of a VW Polo estate (the previous
model; it wouldn't fit in a new Polo) with the back seat folded down.  
So you need a car at least as big, where the dimensions of the opening 
are as critical as the volume.  If you're not too far away, I could 
drive it out myself (which might save some effort) but only if you 
promise me to take it in any case.  As far as I know, it is in working 
order and there is at least the OS and some compilers installed on it.  
I don't know WHICH OS is on it.


--
Phillip Helbig                          Email .........
p.helbig@jb.man.ac.uk
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories   Tel. .... +44 1477 571 321 (ext.
297)
Jodrell Bank                            Fax ................ +44 1477
571 618
Macclesfield                            Telex ................ 36149
JODREL G
UK-Cheshire SK11 9DL                    Web ...
http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~pjh/

My opinions are not necessarily those of NRAL or the University of
Manchester.


From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Sat Sep  5 10:01:00 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <000801bdd8dd$fee78640$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

One of my finds this week was an Altos model 586-30E.

It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8086
cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos net".

The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.

Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?

Thanks
Hans Olminkhof



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep  5 10:52:10 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>


< It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8
< cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
< connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
< number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos ne

Of course ther are no monitor or keyboard plugs... Thats a PC thing. ;)

It expected serial terminals like vt100 or ADM3s and the like.

< The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.
< 
< Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?

No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system 
where there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone 
like turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to 
the local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to 
exchange data.


Allison



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 10:52:00 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809051559.LAA18644@gate.usaor.net>

That wasn't my problem.  I really don't care about the date.  The problem
is, when I typed the date, NOTHING happened, because the keyboard was
gummed up.  I normally just type 11/11/11 at the date prompt, anyway.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:01 PM
> 
> Jason, I think the problem is that the original version of TRSDOS you are
using
> will not accept a date after 1989.
> As you say it boots fine to a date prompt..
> You will need to get LDOS to correct this funny flaw in the operating
system.
> Guess They never expected them to be around so long..
> But it sound like you have it working..
> 
> Phil...
> 



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep  5 11:09:04 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
In-Reply-To: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809051606.LAA05796@trailingedge.com>

On 5 Sep 98, at 11:52, Allison J Parent wrote:

> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system where
> there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone like
> turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to the
> local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
> exchange data.

The Altos 586 ran Xenix off the 8086 IIRC.  My father's office used 
one about that time for their accounting.  They looked at the Altos, 
a Fortune and one other Unix based system at the time and picked 
the Altos.  They felt the company had a little better staying power 
over the others.  Not a bad little system, they ran 3 users with no 
more than 1 meg of memory and could have put a couple more on 
it.  Don't recall the sizes of the disks.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jrice at texoma.net  Sat Sep  5 11:05:00 1998
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
References: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <35F1612C.F73020A9@texoma.net>

A lot of Altos systems ran Xenix in a multiuser system with text
terminals served at each port.  Very popular in dentist and medical
offices.

James

Allison J Parent wrote:
> 
> < It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8
> < cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
> < connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
> < number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos ne
> 
> Of course ther are no monitor or keyboard plugs... Thats a PC thing. ;)
> 
> It expected serial terminals like vt100 or ADM3s and the like.
> 
> < The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.
> <
> < Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?
> 
> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system
> where there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone
> like turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to
> the local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
> exchange data.
> 
> Allison


From altair8800 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  5 11:48:59 1998
From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <19980905164900.27719.qmail@hotmail.com>



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From computercollector at juno.com  Sat Sep  5 11:50:58 1998
From: computercollector at juno.com (Polly Bowery)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Subscribe
Message-ID: <19980905.115100.16582.0.computercollector@juno.com>


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From nmccann at creativecomputing.com  Sat Sep  5 12:19:13 1998
From: nmccann at creativecomputing.com (Nellie McCann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: old computer
Message-ID: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]>

I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
land fill?
I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
Nellie McCann




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:44:18 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: old computer
References: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]>
Message-ID: <35F0CFB2.52AC23B5@sprintmail.com>

Hi Nellie:
eBay.com is a great place to sell old computer equipment..
It however may not be worth your while as it takes time and also shipping to
do it..
Also Apple IIe's are very plentifull and not worth very much..
I usually take my old stuff to the Salvation Army and donate it, problem is I
usually come back with more computer junk than what I left off .. <Grin!!>
And thay make me pay for it to.. <Bummer>!!!

Phil...

Nellie McCann wrote:

> I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
> Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
> land fill?
> I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
> Nellie McCann





From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org  Sat Sep  5 12:37:20 1998
From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Getting rid of old computers -- hint --- Ham Fests.
In-Reply-To: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]> from Nellie McCann at "Sep 5, 98 01:19:13 pm"
Message-ID: <199809051737.NAA05654@pechter.dyn.ml.org>

> I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
> Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
> land fill?
> I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
> Nellie McCann
> 

We sold ours two years ago at the Ham Fest at Allaire Airport a
couple of years ago.  It's now held at the community college at Brookdale.

Bill


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep  5 14:37:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Need submissions for VCF links page
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980905123514.12829C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Hi People.

I'm building out the VCF links page and would like to invite suggestions
or requests for submission for inclusion on the page.

The URL is http://www.siconic.com/vcf/vcflinks.htm.  You can scroll to the
bottom of the page and click on the "Submit a Link" button, or just e-mail
me with a link.

I could especially use some help in fleshing out the specific computer
links groups, such as Commdore, Atari, Radio Shack, etc. as well as adding
sections for additional computer families.

Thanks!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Sep  5 14:57:08 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <19980905.145956.165.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

I used to maintain one of these beasties in the late 1980's.  It used
Altos III
terminals, which were just WYSE-50's with different color plasteek and 
slightly different firmware.

It ran XENIX, which it seemed like it was of Edition 7 vintage.  This
particular
one was a bit tempremental, and went down every few months or so
due to hardware problems.

It used a pair of Quantum 40MB FH hard disks.  It think it could
accomodate
a 60 or an 80 as well, if I'm not mistaken (as I frequently am).

Actually, it was a cool little machine.  It was used for Cellular
Telephone billing,
and I learned how to use Unix on it.  Shoot, I even remember the default
root 
password after the Xenix was installed: 'sotla'  :-)

Jeff

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:09:04 -0500 "David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com>
writes:
>On 5 Sep 98, at 11:52, Allison J Parent wrote:
>
>> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system 
>where
>> there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone 
>like
>> turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to 
>the
>> local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
>> exchange data.
>
>The Altos 586 ran Xenix off the 8086 IIRC.  My father's office used 
>one about that time for their accounting.  They looked at the Altos, 
>a Fortune and one other Unix based system at the time and picked 
>the Altos.  They felt the company had a little better staying power 
>over the others.  Not a bad little system, they ran 3 users with no 
>more than 1 meg of memory and could have put a couple more on 
>it.  Don't recall the sizes of the disks.
>
>
>-----
>David Williams - Computer Packrat
>dlw@trailingedge.com
>http://www.trailingedge.com
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From mark_k at iname.com  Sat Sep  5 18:27:26 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Various things
Message-ID: <yam7552.1319.6168936@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

A reply to a previous post and some other things...


On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 Tony Duell wrote (Re: MAC ATTACK):
>The normal sets in the UK are of 2 forms - either integral handle/blade 
>(just like a normal screwdriver) or a set of 1/4" hex insert bits and a 
>handle. In neither case will they fit into a classic Mac, alas. The 
>problem with the insert bit type is that the bit holder is too large to 
>fit into the Mac.

CPC plc sell a "Macintosh Computer Case Screwdriver" for 1.19 pounds (+VAT).
The order code is TL01544. They also sell a more or less identical one (Ideal
brand) for over 5 pounds.



Repair of switchmode PSU from SyDOS 44e external drive case
-----------------------------------------------------------
I am trying to repair the PSU from an old SyQuest external drive case. The PSU
is made by Skynet, model SNP-9533-2. It has +5V and +12V outputs, both rated at
2A.

The fault is a short between the +5V and ground lines. This showed up as a
twitching of the cooling fan, as the unit repeatedly shut down and started up
again. Thanks to the sci.electronics.repair FAQ, I have found the faulty
component. A schottky rectifier has gone short circuit. There are two identical
rectifiers in parallel. The other one is okay.

So, I need to find a replacement for the broken rectifier, which is marked as
follows:
        31DQ
         04
         3F
According to the data sheet available from www.irf.com, the specs are:
   I     Rectangular waveform      3.3A
    F(AV)
   V                               40V
    RRM
   I     @ tp=5us sine             470A
    FSM
   V     @ 3Apk, T = 25C           0.55V
    F             J
   T                               -40 to 125 C
    J

Will it be okay to use any diode of higher rating than the original? Can anyone
recommend a suitable replacement, or does someone have a spare 31DQ04 diode?



Mac SCSI cable
--------------
I have a Mac SCSI cable, which has 50 way Centronics type connectors on both
ends. On one end there is a small "extension", the body of which is about 2cm
deep. It has a male Centronics connector on one end, female on the other. The
Apple logo is moulded into it, and the Apple part # is 590-0304-A. What is the
purpose of this?

When it is in the SCSI cable, I cannot boot (my non-Apple computer) without
having the external MO drive turned on. Without this thing,it works fine. Maybe
something to do with TERMPWR?



Wangtek tape streamers
----------------------
I was lucky enough to find Wangtek 5525ES and 5150ES SCSI tape streamers the
other week, along with a couple of Adaptec PC SCSI controller cards. One of
these, assuming that they work okay, should finally allow me to read (if not
make use of) my Amiga UNIX tape.

Did the Wangtek streamers normally come with any PC driver software, or is this
not necessary?



Hitachi CD-ROMs
---------------
I have some old external Hitachi CD-ROMs (model CDR-1503S, I think). These have
37-way D connectors on the back, and they came with a couple of 37-way D
cables. It looks like you can daisy-chain two or three of these to one PC.

The Hitachi web site was unhelpful. Does anyone know anything about these? Do
they need a special interface card, or do they plug into the 5.25" drive port
on the back of my PC (which is a 37-way D connector)? Does anyone have suitable
drivers? It would be a shame to get rid of them, since they seem to work; at
least, after powering on I can eject and insert discs.



Sinclair Oxford 300 calculator
------------------------------
I bought one of these the other week. Is this the same Sinclair as produced the
ZX80, ZX81 etc.? A quick description:
Unit is powered by 9V PP3 type battery, has an 8 digit red flourescent display.
A minimal range of scientific funtions; (arc)sin, cos, tan, ln, e^x, square
root and reciprocal. There is a switch on the back to choose between degree and
radian modes. Calculation of (for example) the sine of a number takes about two
seconds. Unless I haven't figured out how to use it properly, the answers it
gives are rather inaccurate; for example:
        square root of 2 = 1.4139192
        e = 2.6108 (obtained by entering 1 and using e^x function)
It may be faulty; repeatedly pressing the 0 button causes the number entered to
be variously 22000000, 22220000 or 20000000. (Though I just tried this again,
and it seems okay now.)


-- Mark



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:22:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
In-Reply-To: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 09:12:14 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFM2Z-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:27:38 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904181730.29915E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 4, 98 06:18:08 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFM7h-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:39:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:10:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMJL-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:41:49 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:23:29 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMLQ-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:45:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050337.XAA22024@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 11:30:38 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMPD-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep  5 17:57:30 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Toshiba T4600
Message-ID: <35F1C1D9.438423A1@bbtel.com>

I am in need of a few things for a Toshiba T4600 VGA 486 laptop. The
unit could probably use a new battery, this one holds for less than 5
mins after all night charging. I'm also interested in the users manual
and possibly a docking bay, or at least the model number or part number
of a suitable docking bay. Other reasonable items such as PCMCIA items
that will work on it I may be interested in as well.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From manney at lrbcg.com  Sat Sep  5 17:59:03 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <01bdd920$c6af4cc0$1428a2ce@manney>

I've found those on various 286 systems. I made a key fob out of mine!
>>
>> The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
>> (IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
>> (loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
>> of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 17:38:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Various things
In-Reply-To: <yam7552.1319.6168936@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk> from "Mark" at Sep 5, 98 11:27:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFQyA-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep  6 00:24:37 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>



  Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.

 I have discovered recently a very dangerous on-line book service, 
which, in my *very* humble opinion, just beats the bloody tar out of 
the 'major' ones.. (Amazon, Barnes, etc).  Some of you Listmembers 
may already be aware of these folks.. if not, the URL is;

                     www.abebooks.com

  I'm *definitely* in Big $$$ Trouble.  I have a very large library, 
around 10K volumes, journals, periodicals, papers...  collected over 
many years. A lot of it is old, wierd, rare, fringe-science, 
technology, engineering, computing, etc. 

  Now I find ABE (American Book Exchange) and they've got titles 
I've been searching for for *ages*...  including a book I read in 4th 
Grade and never heard of since...   oh dear: most of the booksellers 
on ABE take credit cards...  damn, damn, damn...!

  I've already found over $1K of stuff I must have..  NOW!

  Anyway, I hereby disclaim and hold myself inurred and harmless 
from anyone who goes bankrupt because I turned them on to ABE.

  Just try searching with Van Nostrand or Wiley or Howard Sams 
entered in the 'Publisher' slot...  or pdp-11 in the 'keywords' 
section....


  I'm in **trouble**   !


  
Cheers   ;}

  John




From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 22:40:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809060544.BAA21141@gate.usaor.net>

> Stage 1 :  LART the cousin....
> 
> Stage 2 : It may not have done that much damage. Remove the coin and 
> clean up the board. What components did it seem to have come into contact

> with?. There's not a lot on that board that can't be replaced,
actually...
> 
I took it off, and it looks as though some resistors (I think) had burned
up (can't recognize the value coding), and some of the traces and also been
cooked (broken, and blackened).
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 22:40:49 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809060544.BAA21146@gate.usaor.net>

> The original Tandy drives were normally made by a company called 'Texas 
> Peripherals', and are identical to Tandon drives.
> 
They're both actual Tandon drives, dated from 1981.

> Start by taking them apart a little way.
> 
> Unplug all the cables going to the PCB on top of the drive, take out the 
> 2 screws and slip off the PCB. If there's a separate motor control board 
> on the back (old drives have this), then remove that as well.
> 
> > -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> 
> That's easy to make. It's just a length of 34 way ribbon cable with edge 
> connectors crimped to it. Most people these days don't pull pins as Tandy

> did, but instead select the drive using the links on the drive PCB.
> 
<snip>

I did this to one drive, and got it working, but the other is beyond
repair.  A penny was once dropped into the computer by my friends 4 yr. old
cousin.  The penny landed on top of the top drive PCB, shorting some stuff
and fusing the penny to a few components.  I need at least one drive.

> > -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> 
> If you're _really_ stuck for this, remove the connectors from the CPU 
> board and RS232 board and solder some 0.1" SIL headers in place. I seem 
> to remember it's 20 pins. Then use a 40 pin (or whatever) IDC ribbon 
> cable + connectors (like a very short IDE cable) to link them up. Just 
> use the same row of holes in the 2 connectors.
> 

I may just try making my own cable out of an old piece of ribbon cable,
some clear plastic, and some Super Glue.  That's basically what the
original one was, anyway.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep  5 21:27:18 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFMLQ-000IyPC@p850ug1>
References: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:23:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>

Well it looks like this thread has played out. Damn it was a good one. Its
like going to an advanced seminar on electronics. Thanks Tony and Phillip
I can now face PSU repair with much more confidence. This one was definitely a 
keeper. I'll append it to the earlier PSU thread and save it to my personal 
classiccmp FAQ. 
 Does anyone know the status of the archives ? I haven't been able to access 
the site for well over a year. I would be a shame if all this info on classic
computers has vanished , while the sex-life of ants is archived on Deja News.
I know some of you are acquainted with Bill ,would it be possible to find out
so that remedial steps can be taken ?

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Sun Sep  6 01:38:28 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>

I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
of that vintage?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep  6 01:46:15 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980906014217.13363B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

>  Does anyone know the status of the archives ?

Kevan Heydon has been the keeper of the light for a while now:
	http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/

It'd be great if somebody is maintaining an up-to-date FAQ with some of
the pearls fo wisdom that were sent to this list.  URL anybody?

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep  6 01:50:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980906014651.13363C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
> of that vintage?

Heathkit made at least three HERO's (the HERO 1, the HERO Jr., and the
HERO 2000).  There's at least one company that is still making HERO-like
bots, but I think the price was something like $5000 last I checked.

But don't despair.  Take a look at what my girlfriend just ordered for my
birthday present:
	http://www.legomindstorms.com/

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sun Sep  6 07:39:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
References: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <35F28270.BE3152FE@bbtel.com>



John Lawson wrote:

>   Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.

You really should have, now I may have to claim bankruptcy as well.
Thanks for the info.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 22:30:53 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
References: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <35F201ED.F5ED5F59@sprintmail.com>

Thank alot John!!!! <Grin>
    I think I just spent a couple of hundred dollars after looking at
this web site on old out of print books.. Man What a great source for old
computer books.. Really great !!
Thanks for the info...

Phil....


John Lawson wrote:

>   Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.
>
>  I have discovered recently a very dangerous on-line book service,



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 23:08:23 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35F20AB7.6CF0F937@sprintmail.com>

I have an Armdroid Robotic (Circa early 80's) Arm by D & M Computing Inc..
This is a really elaborate Arm with computer interface and small computer
controller included, with a hugh manual about 6 inches thick on its programing and
operation.. The thing is  heavy (about 40lbs) and built like a rock. Wondering if
anyone knows anything about this unit. It was previously used in colleges for
Robotics training. It needs some minor repairs, some of the cables on the stepper
motors have come loose, and a couple of pulleys need replacement..

Phil...

Jim wrote:

> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
> of that vintage?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------





From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Sep  6 12:35:17 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980906103517.036c4a00@agora.rdrop.com>

At 12:38 AM 9/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
>80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other
robots
>of that vintage?

I have a HERO-1 and HERO-2000 in my collection.  Was there something
specific you wanted to know about them?

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sun Sep  6 10:10:47 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Unusual monitor has problem, Tobishi?!  (Skip if you're not elec
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980906103517.036c4a00@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <199809061847.OAA22271@commercial.cgocable.net>

A customer dropped this dead 14" monitor in my lap
and got a new monitor.

This is not your normal "clone" design monitor.  Three things;  the 
brand is Tobishi, this is 100% analog user controls but internally 
has uprocessor to select modes that is number 2.  Finally the 
shocker is it is decoupled horizontal type.   One driver for each; 
one for flyback and one for horizontal yoke coil.   Both trannys is 
controlled by one area fair amount of circuitry.

That tranny for that yoke is blown that all, nothing else is cooked 
thanks to good design of PSU protection.  BU2520AF is the one, it 
seemed to have failed from bad mounting with HS paste,  fell off 
after a gentle touch to it after the mounting screw is out.  The 
diode scubber is good.

Will check out caps but I suspect most are still good

Thanks.

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:33:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <35F20AB7.6CF0F937@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 6, 98 00:08:23 am
Message-ID: <m0zFigT-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:24:40 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:27:09 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809060544.BAA21141@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 5, 98 11:40:27 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFian-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz  Sun Sep  6 15:56:36 1998
From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <l03010d00b218a62aa2b5@[130.123.73.41]>

>to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
>down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
>to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
>the picture tube.

Well water (especially Distilled water) is a great start for this sort of
thing.
However I always rinse the boards thoughly with ethanol (If you can
submerge them for a half hour or so even better), this will displace the
water in all of those hard to get places. After this I would then go
through the drying out process...Oh BTW do this is a well ventilated
area...you can get very drunk from the fumes :-), take note that ethanol
can attack some plastics and may affect some solder masks and screen
printing, so you may want to try iso-propyl alcohol...its less abusive.

Cheers




k.j.whitehead@massey.ac.nz

Keith Whitehead
Electronics Technician
Electronics Services
Institute of Fundamental Sciences
Massey University
Palmerston North
New Zealand
5301





From cdrmool at interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 15:59:10 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Pixel 80
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980906165023.27996G-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Does anyone have any doc's or info on a "Pixel 80"?  A nice fellow in
Guelph Ontario was kind enough to pass one on to me and I'd like to get it
running.  On quick perusal, it has a 5.25" drive on the front, and at the
back a centronics output, 9- 9pin and 4- 25 pin D shell connectors.  The
date says 9/83. Its the size of the bar fridge I had in university and
weighs a bloody ton.  It was manufactured by "Instumentation Labratory
Inc."  Dominique who gave it to me says that he contacted them but they 
say they know nothing about it.  There is a web site for IL but its no
help.

 Colan






From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sun Sep  6 12:02:47 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <199809062039.QAA22653@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:24:40 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..

In the past this newsgroups used to post often for faq but now that 
Sams owner of this faq now posts himself in reponse to other netters 
Q's and his sig line has this line which I will show.

www.repairfaq.org

Jason D.

> 
> -tony
 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 16:00:22 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062109.RAA29438@gate.usaor.net>

I got a new drive (well, to me at least).  It was from an XT clone, and
works great.  When I took the fried one apart, I found out that the spindle
bearing was rusted, so I took the heads, motor, and everything else that
looked good out, and junked the rest.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 1:27 PM
> 
> I have the schematics for that drive (both in the Tandy and IBM tech 
> manuals). So I could probably identify the burnt components. What chips 
> are they near (either type - like NE592, or circuit reference - like U1).

> 
> Burnt traces can be repaired - I do it all the time....
> 
> 
> > --       
> >          -Jason
> > (roblwill@usaor.net)
> >    ICQ#-1730318
> > 
> 
> -tony
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 16:06:03 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062111.RAA29748@gate.usaor.net>

I pretty much got it working (aside from a few keys on the keyboard).  I
basically had to just hose the boards down, because they weren't just
submerged in water, they were submerged in sewage.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Keith Whitehead <K.J.Whitehead@massey.ac.nz>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 4:56 PM
> 
> Well water (especially Distilled water) is a great start for this sort of
> thing.
> However I always rinse the boards thoughly with ethanol (If you can
> submerge them for a half hour or so even better), this will displace the
> water in all of those hard to get places. After this I would then go
> through the drying out process...Oh BTW do this is a well ventilated
> area...you can get very drunk from the fumes :-), take note that ethanol
> can attack some plastics and may affect some solder masks and screen
> printing, so you may want to try iso-propyl alcohol...its less abusive.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> k.j.whitehead@massey.ac.nz
> 
> Keith Whitehead
> Electronics Technician
> Electronics Services
> Institute of Fundamental Sciences
> Massey University
> Palmerston North
> New Zealand
> 5301
> 
> 
> 


From pgrammen at sonic.net  Sun Sep  6 16:32:05 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <199809062039.QAA22653@commercial.cgocable.net>
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
 <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>

I picked up a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer for my collection, and
found a fair amount of info on it on the net. One thing I could use is a
pinout on the phone jack. Also, I gather that this went to an accoustic
coupler. Can I wire it so I can use it directly with a modular phone line?
I got this working with an external 1200 Baud modem, but I wanted to use
the internal 300 baud modem instead.
Thanks,
Paul



From oajones at bright.net  Sun Sep  6 17:22:08 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
	 <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <35F30B10.56C@bright.net>

Paul Grammens wrote:
> 
> I picked up a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer for my collection, and
> found a fair amount of info on it on the net. One thing I could use is a
> pinout on the phone jack. Also, I gather that this went to an accoustic
> coupler. Can I wire it so I can use it directly with a modular phone line?
> I got this working with an external 1200 Baud modem, but I wanted to use
> the internal 300 baud modem instead.
> Thanks,
> Paul

Hi Paul,

Here is the pinout for the phone jack:
Pin No.      Symbol      Description
---------    --------    ------------------------------------
1            TL          Conventional Telephone Unit
2            GND         Logic GND
3            R x MD      Direct Connection to Tel Line (RING)
4            R x MC      Acoustic Coupler Connection (MIC)
5            T x MC      Acousitc Coupler Connection (Speaker)
6            VDD
7            T x MD      Direct Connection to Tel Line (TIP)
8            RP          Ringing Paluse

I hope this helps.

--Alan


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 15:54:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Unusual monitor has problem, Tobishi?!  (Skip if you're not elec
In-Reply-To: <199809061847.OAA22271@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Sep 6, 98 03:10:47 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFlpG-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 18:17:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net> from "Paul Grammens" at Sep 6, 98 02:32:05 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFo3p-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 18:19:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062109.RAA29438@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 05:00:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFo5p-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From mmcmanus at direct.ca  Sun Sep  6 18:29:00 1998
From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (M McManus)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <000701bdd9ee$2188cfe0$4c8617d8@mmcmanus>

Subsribe mike mcmanus
-------------- next part --------------
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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep  6 18:44:37 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809061618.A25072-0100000@netcom15>



   Well, I fired up my recently-acquired uVAX II/RC up this 
afternoon, and whaddaya know...  it boots!

  Thanks to the reams of information which I have dutifully stored 
away, I was able to get the system passwords reset, and I have VMS 
V5.4 signed on. Now I need that DECUS Hobbyist license.

  This machine originally booted into some kind of communications 
software..  but it went by too fast to read much more than TCP/IP 
and (I think) Excelan, or EXlan, or something....

  This Machine has 1 RD53, 1 TK50(?) and a Cipher Data flatbed 9trk 
tape drive. (no floppy)

  The cartridge drive is not happy.. it will load the tape, but the 
red load light stays on, and VMS reports "device not found", and 
SHOW DEV shows it as unmounted.

  I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher 
drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info 
yet on where to look for the device drivers and other procedures.  
The Cipher came installed with this machine, so I'm assuming at some 
point someone was using it...  maybe.  ;}

  ANYWAY: Thanks to Allison and Megan for various bits of wisdom 
that I have vicariously snagged and now put to good use.

  Now to wedge this thing into the rest of the gear in the Computing
Centre (AKA Rapidly Shrinking Living Room). Sigh. Why did it have to
be Minicomputers??? Why couldn't it have been Stamps??  Bottlecaps?? 
Toothpicks from Around the World????? 


   Cheers

John




From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 18:39:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net>

Cool.  where would I get a copy of LDOS, and would I still be able to run
my TRS-DOS programs?  Is there any program for the IBM PC that will allow
disks from a TRS-80 to be read on the PC?  Is there one that will allow the
same to read TRS-80 Model 600 disks on the PC?  Or on the Model III?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 7:19 PM
> 
> 
> That's probably a double-sided drive. If you modify the cable slightly to

> connect up the side select line (I will have to look up the details), and

> run somthing like LDOS, then you can have 360K on a disk. 
> 
> -tony
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 19:03:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 07:39:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFomX-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 19:15:04 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070020.UAA21755@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 8:03 PM
> 
> I believe it's available from Tim Mann's TRS-80 web page. The author has 
> allowed it to be copied for personal use. Of course getting it onto a 
> disk is another problem.
> 
What's the address?  I may be able to use Telcom to transfer the files.

> Does anyone in the States on this list have it, and would be prepared to 
> copy it, I wonder?
> 
> There used to be a commercial program to do the opposite (allow TRS-80s 
> to read/write MS-DOS disks). No idea where you'd get that from now,
though.
> 

Do you remember what the name of it is?

--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Sun Sep  6 19:26:10 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8280553@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 19:22:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070020.UAA21755@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 08:15:04 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFp4q-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Sun Sep  6 20:13:44 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3602327a.285279059@insight>

It was that History Channel program, wasn't it?  That was a really
nice look at some old footage I'd never seen before.  I'm hoping it
will come by again so I can tape it, or maybe I can order the tape
from them.  I've been absolutely crazy for any kind of robot since I
was a small child.  I've got two Hero 1's in my collection, along with
about 40 lbs of books, manuals, schematics, mechanical diagrams, etc.
I'd love to have a Hero 2000 (or other similar vintage) to go with
them, but the last couple on eBay have gone the way of the Altair, and
there were even _fewer_ of these ever sold!  I've got a page up about
"orphaned" robots on my web site that you might find interesting.
Some good pictures if nothing else.

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:38:28 -0600 (MDT), you wrote:

>I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
>80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
>of that vintage?

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 20:22:36 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070135.VAA02367@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 8:22 PM
> 
> http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80.html/
> 
> I seem to remember that you can't make a bootable LDOS disk by just 
> copying the files onto it, and that some of the files have to be in the 
> right place (or their directory entries do). 
> 

Thanks.  I'll have to check it out.

> What version of TRS-DOS are you running at the moment?
> 

I think it's 1.3.  It's on an old Mortgage investment program disk that's
been sitting in my garage loft for three years (temperature ranges from -10
to 120 degrees F).  I'm surprised that it even worked.

> > > There used to be a commercial program to do the opposite (allow
TRS-80s 
> > > to read/write MS-DOS disks). No idea where you'd get that from now,
> > though.
> > > 
> > 
> > Do you remember what the name of it is?
> 
> TRSCROSS, I think. Maybe HYPERCROSS (I think they were both programs to 
> read 'foreign' disks on the TRS-80). 
> 
O.K.  I'll try  to see if I can find it or not.  Was there a program that
would let you run Apple ][ Programs?  I have about 100 program disks
without a working apple (I actually have a Franklin 2000).  Or does the
disk controller thing come into play?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 20:37:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070135.VAA02367@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 09:22:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFqEw-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Sun Sep  6 21:18:29 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
References: <Pine.3.89.9809061618.A25072-0100000@netcom15>
Message-ID: <35F34275.A5D26F32@my-dejanews.com>

John Lawson wrote:

	<snip>

	Congrats on getting it to boot!

>   The cartridge drive is not happy.. it will load the tape, but the
> red load light stays on, and VMS reports "device not found", and
> SHOW DEV shows it as unmounted.

	Ah. I've seen that before in TK50's. What you need to do is pull it
out, remove the cover and head guard, and clean the head. Use the same
procedures you would for wet-cleaning of professional audio tape decks.

>   I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher
> drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info

	Its device name should be MUB0. You might load a scratch tape and then
try the following command.

	mount /foreign MUB0:

	Include the colon. If it works, you should see the thing move its reels
momentarily and then stop.

	Best of luck!


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 17:35:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8280553@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com>

On  6 Sep 98 at 20:26, Marion Bates wrote:

> I have a VIC-20 that didn't come with a video cable, but I later found what
> appeared to be the right one. The part that plugs into the computer has a
> half-circle of five connectors, and on the other end there are two RCA-type
> plugs, one red and one black. Regardless of which one I plug into the
> "video-in" port on my TV, I get perfect video (why does it work with both?) --
> but no audio, whether I plug the second RCA plug into the left or the right
> "sound-in" jack on the TV. Is this the wrong cable, or is there a problem with
> using a stereo TV? (Or is there a fault somewhere?)
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> -- MB
> 
>
 It's been a while and my VICs are buried under a pile of other stuff but I
think the problem is that the box is a RF modulator that has to go directly
into your TV to split the signal into audio and video. I don't remember there 
being 2 RCA outlets on the modulator but in any case you need to connect it to 
your TV with a switchbox like the ones used by Atari 2600 and CoCos. They
have a switch to change between TV or Computer and attach to your antennae or
cable inputs. IIRC the 5 pins were +5v, ground, video hi, video lo, audio. The 
switch- boxes are readily available at any Radio-Shack.
  The 'official' VIC-20 FAQ by Ward Shrake is posted at:
    http://home1.gte.net/salzman
unless it's been changed recently. An excellent FAQ.

ciao		Larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 17:35:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <199809070238.WAB16673@smtp.interlog.com>

On  6 Sep 98 at 18:24, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > Well it looks like this thread has played out. Damn it was a good one. Its
> 
> Well, feel free to continue it, or to start a similar one :-). IMHO 
> questions on repair/restoration techniques are on-topic here, and I 
> certainly enjoy contributing to such threads...
> 
> > like going to an advanced seminar on electronics. Thanks Tony and Phillip
> > I can now face PSU repair with much more confidence. This one was definitely a 
> 
> If you're serious about doing SMPSU repair (especially after a 
> primary-side blow-up), then I don't think we've covered it all by any 
> means. There is an excellent FAQ for the sci.electronics.repair usenet 
> group (search for it on the web), which has a section on swtich-mode 
> PSUs, and I'd recomend reading that (rather than me just typing great 
> sections from memory). Of course you're welcome to ask questions about it 
> here if you like.
> 
> -tony
> 
  Yes I went to look for it on my old bookmark at paranoia.com and
eventually found it had moved to 
 http://www.repairfaq.org

Great bunch of FAQs for electronic repair but this m-l suppliments it
as does sci.electronics.repair and Sam Goldwasser the guru who compiled the 
FAQs who is usually on it.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 21:33:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 9:37 PM
> 
> 
> Well, you'll not be able to read an Apple ][ disk on anything but an 
> Apple (or clone), or maybe a PC with a special disk controller board. 
> 
> And even if you got the program onto a TRS-80 disk, the TRS-80 and Apple 
> have different CPUs (Z80 and 6502), different graphics systems, etc. A 
> BASIC program might be able to be translated, but if it uses PEEK/POKE, 
> or if it uses graphics, or has machine code routines, or anything like 
> that, then it would be quicker to rewrite it.
> 
> Anyway, Apple ]['s are not exactly rare, are they?
> 
> 
They're not rare at all.  I just thought it would be neat to have a
computer that would run almost everything.  I guess that's yet to be made. 
I have a Franklin 2000, but it's sort of screwed up in it's own way.  It
has two video outputs, that don't work simultaneously.  One's 40 column,
one's 80 column.  To use an 80 column program, you have to turn off the
computer, connect the 80 column to the monitor, and reboot.  To use the 40
column, you need to turn it off, connect to the 40 column, and then reboot.
 It also uses Integer Basic, not ProDos, like most of the Apples.  
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
> 


From oajones at bright.net  Sun Sep  6 22:17:34 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
Message-ID: <35F3504E.D02@bright.net>

I was given an old Tandy 3 microcomputer. The button on the right side
of the keyboard says "48K." Was this computer a newer version of the
TRS-80 Model III? I am going to try and restore this computer. Right now
it has a video problem. The screen lights up and has zig-zags on the
screen. Also the contrast and brightness knobs are frozen and move just
a little bit left or right.

--Alan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep  6 22:48:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980906204734.7159F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Cool.  where would I get a copy of LDOS, and would I still be able to run
> my TRS-DOS programs?  Is there any program for the IBM PC that will allow
> disks from a TRS-80 to be read on the PC?  Is there one that will allow the
> same to read TRS-80 Model 600 disks on the PC?  Or on the Model III?

Too many list members have asked this question too many times in the past
several weeks.  Time to update the FAQ (and then have it automatically
posted every two weeks).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 22:46:15 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
Message-ID: <199809070352.XAA23059@gate.usaor.net>

It's not a newer version.  My TRS-80 Model III also has 48K.  It was the
top-of-the-line Model III.  When I first got mine, it had been sitting in a
basement for 2 years, and the basement had been flooded when the septic
tank backed up.  when I cleaned it all out, and turned it on, I had the
same problem with the screen.  I gave it a good, solid whack on the back,
and it's been working fine ever since (not too hard, though -  you don't
want to put a hole in the back).  I think that the problem may have been
that a couple of the chips got either corroded or slightly unseated, and
smacking the back of it reseated them.  That may not be your problem,
though.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: oajones <oajones@bright.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Tandy 3
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 11:17 PM
> 
> I was given an old Tandy 3 microcomputer. The button on the right side
> of the keyboard says "48K." Was this computer a newer version of the
> TRS-80 Model III? I am going to try and restore this computer. Right now
> it has a video problem. The screen lights up and has zig-zags on the
> screen. Also the contrast and brightness knobs are frozen and move just
> a little bit left or right.
> 
> --Alan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep  6 23:25:30 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980906212343.7159I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> I have a Franklin 2000, but it's sort of screwed up in it's own way.  It
<...>
>  It also uses Integer Basic, not ProDos, like most of the Apples.  

Integer Basic and ProDOS are not synonymous.  You might be referring to
DOS 3.3, which a lot of people (like me) prefer to ProDOS for a number of
reasons.  At any rate, the reason it doesn't run ProDOS is because Apple
specifically crippled ProDOS so it couldn't run on clones.  There are
patches that can be applied to ProDOS to make it work on clones like the
Franklin.  I just don't know what they are or where to find them.  A good
place to start would be to pose the question on comp.sys.apple2.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From transit at primenet.com  Mon Sep  7 01:14:49 1998
From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980906231345.8526A-100000@usr06.primenet.com>


On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:
> They're not rare at all.  I just thought it would be neat to have a
> computer that would run almost everything.  I guess that's yet to be made. 

You could kind of "cheat" with some of the emulator programs out there,
but . . .:-)



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 01:24:38 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <m0zFomX-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 07:39:56 pm
Message-ID: <199809070621.BAA07285@trailingedge.com>

On 7 Sep 98, at 1:03, Tony Duell wrote:

> I believe it's available from Tim Mann's TRS-80 web page. The author has
> allowed it to be copied for personal use. Of course getting it onto a disk
> is another problem.

On Tim's page (I believe) there is also a Linux TRS-80 Model 1/3/4 
emulator (called xtrs) that can use the Linux box's floppy drives as 
the emulator's drives.  A couple of days ago, I setup an old 486 
with a 5.25" floppy and installed Linux.  Set up the emulator and 
downloaded the LDOS from Tim's page.  Used the emulator to 
make a new LDOS boot disk using the floppy drive.  Took the disk 
to my Model III and it booted right up.  I've used that technique to 
move several pieces of TRS-80 Model III software now and I'm 
working on Model I software using the Model III as a go between.  
Works great and is just one more example of some useful software 
for Linux.  At least for collectors of old TRS-80s. :-)  The xtrs 
emulator is pretty good although it isn't really easy to swap 
emulated disks.  Next I'm going to try it out with my Model 4.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Mon Sep  7 03:25:19 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <92034F0DD8@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On  4 Sep 98 at 18:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
> "language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
> built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
> normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
> slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
> instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
> 3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
> board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
> expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
> slot.

Can anyone explain the reason why Apple put the Aux slot directly in 
line with slot 3 on the European version of the IIe? For example, I 
have a full length Ramworks III board in the Aux slot and this 
completely obscures slot 3 so an accelerator so Sam's trick with the 
Transwarp will not work.

Phil


**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From franke at sbs.de  Mon Sep  7 06:06:52 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <199809070850.KAA01581@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
>> "language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
>> built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
>> normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
>> slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
>> instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
>> 3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
>> board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
>> expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
>> slot.

> Can anyone explain the reason why Apple put the Aux slot directly in 
> line with slot 3 on the European version of the IIe? For example, I 
> have a full length Ramworks III board in the Aux slot and this 
> completely obscures slot 3 so an accelerator so Sam's trick with the 
> Transwarp will not work.

THe AUX slot _is_ slot #3. just some different signals. For
any 'regular' use you can only use the slot #3 connector or
AUX connector. The Transwarp is just (like some other very
special cards) desigend for uste in #3 while AUX is hosting
the 'regular' card. In fact, any card, able to run in slot
#0 (using no slot resources like RAM and (E)PROM space) will
coexist in #3 with a card in AUX.

The location was choosed to avoid that owners will plug in
two cards using the slot resources into AUX and #3, since
this (may) result in address conflicts. A far better solution
than any message in a manual for the usual I-am-an-expert-I-
-never-read-manuals user.

Gruss
H.


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep  7 01:15:33 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
Message-ID: <199809071020.GAA08472@smtp.interlog.com>

 I was going thru a bunch of old material and I ran across this IBM
manual that I had squirrelled away from a garbage find in the early 80s
that also included a bunch of Bytes. It's a 6th edition (Mar 79) and says it 
applies to Release 4 of OS/VS1, Release 3 of OS/VS2 ,Release 2 of VM/370,
DOS/VSE, and all other releases
 A descrptive heading says "This manual describes the OS/VS -DOS/VSE-
VM/370 assembler language. It's a 450 page XEROXed copy.
 I know ziltch about non-micros and am wondering if this is of any value
(in the intellectual sense) ?

ciao		larry  
lwalker@interlog.com


From franke at sbs.de  Mon Sep  7 08:13:01 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
Message-ID: <199809071056.MAA23595@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>  I was going thru a bunch of old material and I ran across this IBM
> manual that I had squirrelled away from a garbage find in the early 80s
> that also included a bunch of Bytes. It's a 6th edition (Mar 79) and says it 
> applies to Release 4 of OS/VS1, Release 3 of OS/VS2 ,Release 2 of VM/370,
> DOS/VSE, and all other releases
>  A descrptive heading says "This manual describes the OS/VS -DOS/VSE-
> VM/370 assembler language. It's a 450 page XEROXed copy.
>  I know ziltch about non-micros and am wondering if this is of any value
> (in the intellectual sense) ?

/360, /370 ASSM is an brilliant example how simple, clear
and beautiful a (CISC) processor can be. I know now other
assembler so simple, so strikt and easy to implement (and
I'm still an Assm programmer since 20 years).

With exraordinary simple thinking one can easy develop all
stages of an execution pipline for this opcode. Staight
forward. Did I say develop ? There is noting to develop -
reading the opcodes is like reading a step by step instruction
to build the CPU.

Ok, maybe I'm overemphasing, but I love this structure.
I did almost any microprocessor (from 1802 to 9900 and Z80)
in the past 20 years, and some of the bigger architectures,
but none equals the /370.

So, if you want to have fun, take the OP-Code table and
solve the puzzle - or just keep the manual for 'real world'
tasks, since this Assm is still valid for IBM (and compatible)
Mainframes. I bet your taxes are calculated on one of 'em.

Gruss
H.
P.S.:
 I did several interpreters for micros - first on the KIM :).

P.P.S.:
 Shure there have been some realy genieous extensions to the
 /370 architecture (like maybe the stack engine in the SIEMENS
 X calss CPUs), beautiful and powerfull themself, but they are
 still don't met the elegance of the basic instruction set.

P.P.P.S.:
 And of course there are several good Microprcessors - but again:
 not as elegant, simple and beautifull than the /370.


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Mon Sep  7 07:29:44 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
In-Reply-To: <35F34275.A5D26F32@my-dejanews.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Sep 6, 98 07:18:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809071229.IAA16606@shell.monmouth.com>

Bruce Lane wrote:
> John Lawson wrote:
> 
> 	<snip>
> 
> 	Congrats on getting it to boot!
> 
> >   I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher
> > drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info
> 
> Its device name should be MUB0. You might load a scratch tape and then
> try the following command.
>  
>  	mount /foreign MUB0:
> 
> 	Include the colon. If it works, you should see the thing move its reels
> momentarily and then stop.
> 
> 	Best of luck!
> 

I didn't get the controller the Cipher is on -- but it could also be 
emulating a TS11 (MSA0:).

Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From danjo at xnet.com  Mon Sep  7 08:49:42 1998
From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: (fwd) free/cheap Kaypro computers (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980907084806.14185A-100000@typhoon>


Noticed this on the local forsale list - go for it guys/gals 8-)
Please contact him directly - all info is in the message.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: epement@ripco.com (Eric Pement)
Newsgroups: chi.forsale
Subject: free/cheap Kaypro computers
Date: 7 Sep 1998 05:19:38 GMT
Organization: Ripco, Chicago's Oldest Online Information Service

  I have 10 Kaypro CP/M computers for sale or for free. Best offer 
takes it (I'm hoping $5 or $10 for any working computer; any nonworking 
Kaypro is free), but if you don't have any money and can pick them up 
here in Chicago, any or *ALL* of them can be yours for free. Probably 3 
or 4 of them have FDD problems with drive alignment, one or two has a 
bad or missing power supply, one of them has both drives missing.

 3   Kaypro II (nongraphics, 2 SSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 2  (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 2x (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 4   Kaypro 4  (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 10 (graphics, 1 SSDD floppy dirve, one 10 meg HDD)

   If anyone wants to pick them all up and cart them away, that would 
be fine! I can provide bootable disks, including legit Kaypro masters, 
for these computers, but no printed manuals (sorry!).

Email me at <epement@jpusa.chi.il.us> or phone at 773/561-2450, 1-2084#.
If I'm not there, leave a message on voice mail. If you need to know 
more about Kaypros, CP/M, or have other questions, please ask.

Kind regards,
Eric Pement
-- end of forwarded message --



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep  6 22:25:46 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35F3523A.718E2AEB@sprintmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and Schematics
for the following classic computers:

Osborne 01,
Osborne Executive
Kaypro Model 2
Kaypro Model 2X

I have these units in my collection of CP/M based computers, and they all have minor
problems with them..
It is my goal to keep them all running, but I now realize that I need Service
Manuals to do this..

Can anyone help ?

Thanks Phil....








From wanderer at bos.nl  Mon Sep  7 13:31:29 1998
From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
Message-ID: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>

Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
people during the night shift?

I'm looking for these drawings. So if you have one (ore more)
of them please feel free to email them to me directly, unless
you want to please other readers as well...

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. can somebody help me with a 'chat' container or knows
an address where to get one?
-- 
The Wanderer                       | Geloof nooit een politicus!
wanderer@bos.nl                    | Europarlementariers:
http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer   | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor
Unix Lives!   windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici.
'96 GSXR 1100R                     | 
See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of
Gates!


From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com  Mon Sep  7 11:47:00 1998
From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions
Message-ID: <D11784690BF5D111ADCD002035B165AF069549@ticonderoga.virtualadmin.com>

Thanks for the info, I'm driving this puppy 850 miles though.  Is the
clip permanently attached to the positioner?

-----Original Message-----
From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:04 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions


> 
> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm going to pickup a system in a week or two, and it's got RL02
Drives.
> I haven't seen one of these in years.  Any shipping hints, locking
> screws,

There is a locking clip on the head positioner, but in my experience the

positioner is stiff enough not to need locking for short moves.

Do make sure there are no packs in them. To open the top cover, either 
remove the little plate on the RHS (if it's an old drive) and frob the 
solenoid (and replace the plate afterwards), or undo the access cover on

top and release the door that way. Take out any packs you find in the 
drives, but keep them, as one may well be a bootable OS.

> etc?
> 
> Thanks.
> 

-tony


From haleyk at okstate.edu  Mon Sep  7 11:57:23 1998
From: haleyk at okstate.edu (K.S. (Tall Texan) Haley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980907115631.80258C-101000@vms.ucc.okstate.edu>

I have Snoopy.

have a good Labor Day.

regards,
scott

*********1*********2*********3*********4*********5*********6
As the astronomers unanimously teach, the circuit of the
whole earth, which to us seems endless, compared with the
greatness of the universe has the likeness of a mere point.
--Ammianus Marcellinius ( 330-395 AD)
the last major Roman historian in "The Chronicle of Events"
*****	haleyk@okstate.edu	*****	*****	***** 	ends.


On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, wanderer wrote:

> Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
> people during the night shift?
> 
> I'm looking for these drawings. So if you have one (ore more)
> of them please feel free to email them to me directly, unless
> you want to please other readers as well...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> P.S. can somebody help me with a 'chat' container or knows
> an address where to get one?
> -- 
> The Wanderer                       | Geloof nooit een politicus!
> wanderer@bos.nl                    | Europarlementariers:
> http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer   | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor
> Unix Lives!   windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici.
> '96 GSXR 1100R                     | 
> See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of
> Gates!
> 
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 12:15:27 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC20 video port/cable
Message-ID: <m0zG4t1-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Mon Sep  7 13:02:33 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II Bugcheck help
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809071057.A25021-0100000@netcom12>


  I have a couple of newbie questions re: the uVAX II  that has come 
to live with me..

  One is (and I have looked before asking) where might I find more 
technical data than the User's Manual seems to provide? Particularly 
sysgen info....  I need to a) find some device drivers and b) make 
them available to VMS..  specifically the TK50. There are no 
floppies installed. (nor in my other one.. boo!)

  Two is..  this old beast got quite cranky on me this morning..  it 
crashed loudly five or six time before stabilizing...  I managed to 
capture the info once or twice, but I cannot verify that it was the 
same each time...   most crashes came during boot after VMS signed 
on and somewhere right before/during the DATE/TIME prompt..  though 
it happened at other times too...

  FATAL CRASH Bugcheck... PGFIPLHI Pagefault IPL too high

  Crash CPU 00    Primary CPU 00

  and a ton of other stuff...  registers etc. which I will not 
reproduce unless asked.  ;}

  It *seemed* to get better as it warmed up..  the machine is out in 
my shop and the ambient is about 68F and foggy...  also it is not 
retaining the DATE/TIME info...  is the uVAX as sensitive to it's 
battery state as some other machines? Has the RAM developed mange?

  Today I will move it in to the house where it can be given TLC...

  by the way, I have been asked re: the cabinet it's in..  it is in 
a 4' high roll-around rack, whose top hinges up to allow access to 
the Cipher 9trk tape drive.  I don't have the cabinet model number.


  Thanks to All who have offered comments/suggestions so far!

  Cheers

John




From Roger at Sinasohn.com  Mon Sep  7 13:19:49 1998
From: Roger at Sinasohn.com (Roger Sinasohn)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Fwd: Panasonic HHC
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980907110641.6abf6fc2@mail.sinasohn.com>

Can anyone help this guy?

>X-Persona: <Roger@Sinasohn.Com>
>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Matt Herriot <linkstar457@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Panasonic HHC
>To: roger@sinasohn.com
>
>Roger,
>
> We came across a Panasonic HHC in the storage room the other day that
>had come frmo an insurance company ages ago with a bunch of eproms
>written with software for their business. We thought it would be cute
>to write a handy little program for it but do not have a manual. Can
>you tell me whether it programs in basic and what form? 
>
> I myself have a fondness for the little Pocket Computer II or III
>from Tandy. The one with the white LCD screen, not the yellow. Mine
>was stolen back in the eighties though. If you happen to know where I
>can pick one up for around $30 or less let me know.
>
>
>          Thanks,
>          Matt Herriot
>          linkstar457@yahoo.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From thomas100 at home.com  Mon Sep  7 14:36:47 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <199809071936.LAA11322@next.ireadyco.com>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:14:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 10:35:30 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5o8-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:19:28 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 10:33:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5sx-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:25:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
In-Reply-To: <35F3504E.D02@bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 6, 98 11:17:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5yP-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep  7 15:56:18 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907165132.4887A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

[re: the original Macintosh keyboards]

> > Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/
> 
> If you never used PCs and didn't have to interface with systems that are
> PC-based you wouldn't have need to complain.

I'm sorry, but I find arrow keys to be fairly important.  I don't want to
have to use the mouse just to position the cursor in a text editor.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep  7 16:17:38 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <m0zE00z-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907170801.4887B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > --- Doug Spence wrote:
> > my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
> > Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?
> > --- end of quote ---
> > 
> > There are some adjustments you can do with plastic TV-tweaking
> > tools (even demagnetized metal ones distort the display when
> > they're near the board). The easy-to-reach ones are accessible from
> > the solder-side of the analog board (there should be a white
> > plastic sheet that tells you which controls are which). If those
> 
> Well, horizontal linearity (which is what you're asking about) is set by 
> the magnetically-biased coil L3. And AFAIK it's not adjustable. L2, which 
> can be tweaked, sets the width. The rings on the yoke centre the picture.
> 
> You might find that careful tweaking of width and centring will get a 
> useable picture. If not, look for defective components in the L2/L3 area 
> (in particular that 3.9uF cap I mentioned).

It's already 'useable' (I wrote the original message on the very machine
we're discussing) it's just that the distortion is noticeable.  The
picture is probably only a couple of millimeters shorter on the left than
on the right, if there is even that much difference.

Considering the risks, and the amount of free time I've got, I've decided
not to do anything about this little problem for the time being.

Unless you think it's a sign of something worse on the way, in which case
a little preventative maintenance would be a whole lot better than
cleaning up after something goes kablooie in a major way. :)

> Whatever you do, don't tweak the DC voltage preset on the analogue board 
> unless you know what you are doing. I normally set if to get the +5V line 
> spot-on, but I have not idea if that's the official thing to do.

I'm not sure it's set correctly as it is.  When I got the machine it had a
clip-in 512K memory expansion in it, and I was told that the voltage was
probably tweaked to accomodate this board.

However, the machine wouldn't start up with the memory board in it, so I
removed it.  But I never tweaked the voltage on the analogue board.

As soon as I get the appropriate parts to fix the memory board, it's going
back in.

> -tony

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Sep  7 16:28:55 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8284943@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
According to the Tech manual, the output from the VIC20 is composite 
video and line level audio. There was an external RF modulator that 
plugged into that socket and connected via a switchbox to the aerial 
socket on a TV, but if you TV has composite video inputs, etc, then 
there's no need to use a modulator.
--- end of quote ---

I posted the original question. There didn't seem to be any need for a switchbox since the TV has these inputs already. 

Tony, your earlier post (thanks, BTW) describes the pinout for the correct video connector. Except that, um, I don't know the pin numbering scheme you're using. So, in this summary of continuity checks, I am counting pins from left to right, not knowing any better:

Pin 1 -- nothing.
Pin 2 -- tip of black RCA connector.
Pin 3 -- sleeves of both red and black RCA's. 
Pin 4 -- tip of red RCA.
Pin 5 -- nothing.

So I guess that pin 3's corresponding with both RCA sleeves must have something to do with the video signal's being present even when I switch them around, right? But I'm not sure what to make of the rest of it. The answer is probably staring me right in the face from your previous post, but I'm pretty ignorant about electronics, so please bear with me.  ;)

Thanks again for the help.

-- MB


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep  7 17:27:24 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809072236.SAA13293@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: David Williams <dlw@trailingedge.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 2:24 AM
> 
> 
> On Tim's page (I believe) there is also a Linux TRS-80 Model 1/3/4 
> emulator (called xtrs) that can use the Linux box's floppy drives as 
> the emulator's drives.  A couple of days ago, I setup an old 486 
> with a 5.25" floppy and installed Linux.  Set up the emulator and 
> downloaded the LDOS from Tim's page.  Used the emulator to 
> make a new LDOS boot disk using the floppy drive.  Took the disk 
> to my Model III and it booted right up.  I've used that technique to 
> move several pieces of TRS-80 Model III software now and I'm 
> working on Model I software using the Model III as a go between.  
> Works great and is just one more example of some useful software 
> for Linux.  At least for collectors of old TRS-80s. :-)  The xtrs 
> emulator is pretty good although it isn't really easy to swap 
> emulated disks.  Next I'm going to try it out with my Model 4.
> 
O.K.  I saw that.  Now-- Where do I get a copy of Linux??
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 16:47:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907170801.4887B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 7, 98 05:17:38 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG97t-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ventas at centraldeabastos.com.mx  Mon Sep  7 19:34:00 1998
From: ventas at centraldeabastos.com.mx (ventas@centraldeabastos.com.mx)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: NEEDED.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980907183400.00772778@centraldeabastos.com.mx>

September 1998.

I'm looking for this old unit functioning to purchase it, actually I need
the PACK or FIXED PLATE also called HDA, the interface of this unit is SMD
and there may be manufacturers that emulate SMD with SCSI disk, (an
alternative of this type as long as it is transparent and that doesn't
require modifications in hardware or software would do).

BRAND : Ampex 
MODEL : 932  (DFR-932) 
P/N : 3311637-01 
DISC TYPE : Winchester ( 1 FIXED PLATE, 1 REMOVABLE PLATE TYPE BASF CARTRIDGE)
I/O INTERFACE TYPE:  SMD/CMD 
INTERNAL PROCESSOR : INTEL 8085A - 5 Mhz. 
CAPACITY :  32 MByte 
FABRICATION YEAR: AGO-1980 
WEIGHT : 77 Kgm. - 154 Lbs. 
ELECTRICAS CHARACTERISTICS: 60 Hz. - 120 VAC. 
FABRICATION PLACE:  Redwood City, California USA BY: AMPEX Corp. 

NOTE : This Unit model 932 can be reeplaced by models 964 or 966. 

We would appreciate if you could suggest where we may find a used unit.

Thanks.
Mexico City.
International Used Components.




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  7 18:39:50 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <19980907233950.2893.qmail@hotmail.com>





I was volunteering for a short time at the Museum of Science, and they
had a Terrapin LOGO turtle stashed away, and some descendants as well.
The LOGO was controlled via an external box by serial cable. The
descendants were programmable by IR connection. They stored them
for lack of display space.I would have asked about the Amiga 500
deal with them too much. These people had no money, and they replaced
an entire computer due to a PSU problem I had asked about before.
Has anyone seen a turtle in action? How rare are these>
>motors have come loose, and a couple of pulleys need replacement..
>
>Phil...
>
>Jim wrote:
>
>> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the 
early
>> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or 
other robots
>> of that vintage?
>> --
>> Jim Strickland
>> jim@calico.litterbox.com
>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep  7 18:48:38 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <19980907233950.2893.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980907184618.30714A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> I was volunteering for a short time at the Museum of Science, and they
> had a Terrapin LOGO turtle stashed away, and some descendants as well.
> The LOGO was controlled via an external box by serial cable.

LOGO is not the turtle, it's the programming language.  The language was
used to teach programming concepts by moving a turtle (either a robot or a
virtual graphics turtle).

-- Doug



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 18:20:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8284943@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 7, 98 05:28:55 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGAaH-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From fmc at reanimators.org  Mon Sep  7 18:55:02 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: Thomas Pfaff's message of Mon, 7 Sep 98 12:36:47 -0700
References: <199809071936.LAA11322@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:
> (View with proportional fonts)

Ewww.  Y'know, not all proportional fonts have the same widths
for the same characters.  Besides, who made ASCII terminals with
proportional fonts?  (Yes, this is an invitation for folks to 
inform us all.  And make sure you tell us what they were used 
for!)

-Frank McConnell



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Sep  7 19:17:31 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <8285894@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
The Mac PSU is a little marginal and should be tweaked if the load 
changes.

How I do it is to connect a DC voltmeter to the +5V line on the logic 
board (for example on the mouse port). And adjust the DC voltage preset 
on the PSU board for a reading of 5V. I am not sure if this is the 
official procedure, though.
--- end of quote ---

What you're doing is probably fine. The "official procedure" at the repair shop where I used to work involved a special little testing adapter (available from Apple, but probably only to authorized service centers) that plugged into the Mac's floppy port and split into four wires, one of which was ground. The other three were some combination of 5V and 12V leads (I think one 12V, one -5V, and one +5V, or something like that). You'd check all three and tweak each of them to within some tolerance, and according to the service manual, if you couldn't get all three within tolerance, then you were supposed to replace the board. 

-- MB


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 19:30:25 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 7, 98 04:55:02 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGBfw-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 19:37:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <8285894@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 7, 98 08:17:31 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGBmi-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep  7 20:37:00 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980907183632.29125A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 7 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:
> > (View with proportional fonts)
> 
> Ewww.  Y'know, not all proportional fonts have the same widths
> for the same characters.  Besides, who made ASCII terminals with
> proportional fonts?  (Yes, this is an invitation for folks to 
> inform us all.  And make sure you tell us what they were used 
> for!)

My guess is he meant fixed-width font (ie. non-proportional).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 20:49:10 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: (Fwd) Looking for DG NOVA info
Message-ID: <199809080145.UAA07906@trailingedge.com>

Can anyone help him out?  Email him directly if you can.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	"Scott L. Baker" <scd@teleport.com>
To:             	<dlw@trailingedge.com>
Subject:        	Looking for DG NOVA info
Date sent:      	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:05:59 -0700

I'm looking for any information that you might have on the
Data General Nova series of minicomputers.  Specifically a
programmers reference or architecture reference.  If you have
any info, I would gladly pay for photocopying and shipping charges.

                            Thanks in advanced,
                            Scott L. Baker
                            scd@teleport.com



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 20:59:39 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809072236.SAA13293@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>

There are several places to pick up Linux.  I tend to use the version 
from Red Hat (www.redhat.com).  There are places to download it 
off the net but it is BIG and I'd suggest you pick up on of the 
CDRom copies.  They can be picked up for cheap and make it a lot 
easier to install.

On 7 Sep 98, at 18:27, Jason Willgruber wrote:
> O.K.  I saw that.  Now-- Where do I get a copy of Linux??


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Mon Sep  7 21:38:39 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

Hi All.  I know there are a huge number of PDP-11 fans here (me-self
included)  But I don't hear much about other mini-computer scale systems. 

Are there any other Prime Computer fans on the list?  I spent a lot of
years working on the things, and have mucho respect for their hardware and
kernel development guys.  Shit-head marketing and other problems killed
off the company a couple years ago, but they had a really nice product in
the "super mini" market for at least a few years running.  I'd like to
latch onto one of the 23xx series small machines, or even one of the last
5200 boxes.

  -wayne




From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Mon Sep  7 22:24:52 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 529
References: <199809080002.RAA15236@lists5.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35F4A384.16DC5A5A@goldrush.com>

> From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
> 
> I have a VIC-20 that didn't come with a video cable, but I later found what
> appeared to be the right one. The part that plugs into the computer has a
> half-circle of five connectors, and on the other end there are two RCA-type
> plugs, one red and one black. Regardless of which one I plug into the
> "video-in" port on my TV, I get perfect video (why does it work with both?) --
> but no audio, whether I plug the second RCA plug into the left or the right
> "sound-in" jack on the TV. Is this the wrong cable, or is there a problem with
> using a stereo TV? (Or is there a fault somewhere?)
> 

The video cable you have is probably for a Commodore 64, Atari 8-bit, or Sega
Genesis.  There are two video outputs on the VIC video connector.

You should be able to locate a cable that has a 5-pin din to 4 RCA type plugs
- Radio shack used to sell them - I think they are (were) used in automobile
audio systems...  With that you will find both video and audio output (but
watch out, there is also the +5v output in one plug too.)  :/

BTW you're not missing much with the VIC-20 sound, the programmer's trick to
get better sound output is to keep the computer controlled sound volume low
(like 2 or 3) then the voices don't mess up each other as much.
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From pgrammen at sonic.net  Mon Sep  7 23:02:25 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907165132.4887A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca
 >
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980907210225.008517f0@pop.sonic.net>

At 04:56 PM 9/7/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I find arrow keys to be fairly important.  I don't want to
>have to use the mouse just to position the cursor in a text editor.
>

There is an optional number pad that daisy chains with the keyboard. I
think that has arrow keys on it. You could also use a Mac Plus keyboard
which has arrow keys and number pad built-in. At least I think it is
compatible with the 512K. It certainly would be if it is a 512K Enhanced
with the 800K floppy. 

A couple of common problems with those are overheating due to the lack of a
fan, fractured solder joints where the cable connectors are soldered to the
powersupply board, and gummy grease making the 400K floppy drives stick. 
-Paul



From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 00:24:53 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
Message-ID: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>

Just got a PDP-11/84 into the basement, and after the Series/1 experience I
was ready... Go grab some 2x4 lumber if you ever need to get a rack system
up or down stairs... Now that it's down, I need to get it running. When I
plug it in and turn it on, it turns on the "DC on" light and the boot test
display says "77". And what is the easiest way to hook up a
terminal(probably use a WY-99GT or VT-220, maybe the WY-60)? It's a nice
system with 4MB RAM and a 9-track Cipher tape drive(I noticed that the tape
drive I have with my Series/1 appears to be a Cipher, or based on it as it
needs a Cipher tool to prepare the tape for the autoload feature). Any
ideas on how to hook the tape drive up?



--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 00:21:19 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>
References: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]>

>Hi All.  I know there are a huge number of PDP-11 fans here (me-self
>included)  But I don't hear much about other mini-computer scale systems.
What's wrong with my IBM Series/1? Well, other than it isn't quite in
working condition... I have the CPU converted to 110v(from 220v), but
nothing else is going quite that well. But I'm happy now that I have a
PDP-11/84 :-) That reminds me, I'm going to be getting rid of three IBM
4967 hard drives(220v) and a rack(hesitant to give it up, but I need the
room), as well as a 4959 expansion unit. And I'm looking for 110v 4963 or
4967 hard drive. Anyways...

>Are there any other Prime Computer fans on the list?  I spent a lot of
>years working on the things, and have mucho respect for their hardware and
>kernel development guys.  Shit-head marketing and other problems killed
>off the company a couple years ago, but they had a really nice product in
>the "super mini" market for at least a few years running.  I'd like to
>latch onto one of the 23xx series small machines, or even one of the last
>5200 boxes.
Never heard of them. But I do have a question... Considering how powerful
computers are getting, where do you draw the line between micros, minis and
mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 line,
about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can even fit
a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM has a
PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from somewhere)...
Looking back to older computers it's pretty easy, but with the newer stuff
it gets confusing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From WHoagIII at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 23:32:07 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <6e787edc.35f4b347@aol.com>

I think I have a Prime 23XX in the whse. I will look and get back to you. I
have one or two systems left. I am a secondary market dealer who is retireing
and getting rid of the last of the inventory.
Paxton Hoag


From nerdware at laidbak.com  Tue Sep  8 00:03:31 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Yamaha system question
In-Reply-To: <199808300024.TAA27067@trailingedge.com>
References: <3.0.16.19980209145747.624f99e6@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <199809080500.AAA32298@garcon.laidbak.com>

Sorry. I just read the other postings about the Yammy box. I guess I've got too 
many things stored in memory for the more obscure stuff to always be filed 
accurately.

Guess it's time to defrag my brain.



Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep  8 01:14:50 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>
Message-ID: <v04011703b21a7b4ba62a@[192.168.1.2]>

>Just got a PDP-11/84 into the basement, and after the Series/1 experience I

Ah, so you're the one that got it :^)

>display says "77". And what is the easiest way to hook up a
>terminal(probably use a WY-99GT or VT-220, maybe the WY-60)? It's a nice

Go with the VT220, it will prefer a DEC terminal.

>needs a Cipher tool to prepare the tape for the autoload feature). Any
>ideas on how to hook the tape drive up?

Stupid question, do you have a controller for it?  Also do you have any
disk drives?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 01:21:27 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b21a7b4ba62a@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>
Message-ID: <l03130306b21a7d08921d@[207.225.86.134]>

>Ah, so you're the one that got it :^)
Yep.

>Go with the VT220, it will prefer a DEC terminal.
And it looks nicer with a VT-220 sitting on top...

>Stupid question, do you have a controller for it?  Also do you have any
>disk drives?
Hehe... NOPE! No controllers at all, in fact no cards other than the CPU,
RAM, bus converter and terminator. And the only drive I have for it is the
Cipher.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep  8 01:33:30 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
In-Reply-To: <35F3523A.718E2AEB@sprintmail.com>
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980907233330.03679690@agora.rdrop.com>

Greetings;

At 11:25 PM 9/6/98 -0400, Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>:
>    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..
>
>I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and
Schematics
>for the following classic computers:
>
>Osborne 01,
>Osborne Executive
>Kaypro Model 2
>Kaypro Model 2X

Well...  I don't have anything (that I know of, I forget sometimes  B^}  )
for the Osbornes (tho I could probably use them too) but I do have a
service manual set for the entire Kaypro (8-bit) line of computers.

I can run you a copy of the whole thing, or the selected parts if you like.
 I'd have to get a page count to figure the cost tho...

I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Tue Sep  8 06:14:11 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980908071030.15389A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> I've seen cards that could do both CGA and HGC, and maybe even EGA modes.
> They had DIP switches as you are describing.
> 
> As for some software requireing a switch to be flipped - maybe it also
> has a way of emulating CGA via HGC, or something.

This is possible, as the software I had to flip a switch to run (GeoWorks
Ensemble setup) seems to assume I'm using CGA.

I'll have to put a system information-type program on there to see if it
reports different display cards with different switch settings.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 06:23:05 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <76759482.35f51399@aol.com>

Both the Prime systems I have are old 2250s (2044-90 & 901). I havn't looked
at the cards but one is a low cabinet with CPU and Hard drive. The other is
two low cabinets, the second holding a 1" Cipher Tape drive. Is there any
interest in them or parts from them. Unless someone is interested they are a
week or two from becoming parts & scrap. I am closing my warehouse shortly and
need to get rid of them. If you have more questions or interest in them
contact me directly at
Innfograph@aol.com
Thanks for your interest,
Paxton Hoag


From su4393 at eclipse.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 06:27:21 1998
From: su4393 at eclipse.co.uk (Mr James Sterling Bunting)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Intellec 8 Etc. & Cromemco Computers Etc.
Message-ID: <199809081222.MAA02922@ns1.saturn.ispc.net>

As a  retired moneychanger turned storyteller, fighting against government
exploitation, often winning the un-winnable but definitely loosing the war,
I need to dispose of 'assets' to pay Sancho Pansa's wages.

'Assets'? available:-

COMPUTER - INTEL CORPORATION
Intellec 8
Model No. 8 - 84
Serial No. 245
S.D. 4.75 (Production Date?)

STAND ALONE TAPE READER/TRANSMITTER - ADDMASTER CORPORATION
ADDMASTER 606 
Model No.606 - (Parallel Output)
Serial No.606136
Production Date 1975?

DESKTOP PUNCH STATION - LITTON - SWEDA INTERNATIONAL, INC.
ROYTRON 528 PUNCH
Model No. 528
Serial No. 528 - 23 - 3382.

CASSETTE TAPE UNIT - MESONIX AUTOMATION LTD.
CASSETTE UNIT.
Model No. -  Fitted DCR-3 Tape Unit  (Phillips?)
Serial No.  -  Mesonix Tape Storage Unit.
Production Date  1976? 

I have recently dug out the above items which were purchased new in 1975/6
(whilst working as a moneychanger) and were working when put into storage
in 1980.  There is also a quantity of advertising literature and 
instruction manuals relating to all but the Mesonix Tape unit 
(a U.K. company that no longer exists?)

Still in store there are also three complete Cromemco systems one System 1
(or 2?) and two System 3's with four or five terminals, a stand alone 
double 8" disk drive, a Cromemco Spinwriter and Quime daisywheel printer
plus a mass of Cromemco software, manuals and disks.

S100 - a bit like tilting at windmills.

I'm thinking of eBay for disposal of anything of any real value but would
appreciate the helpful comments of any classic computer cognoscenti
/collectors/dealers out there,  willing and able to assist.  

James S. Bunting
Campaign Against Statutory Exploitation (C.A.S.E.)

M.V. Great Gull,
C/O Double Locks Hotel,
Canal Banks,
Exeter Ship Canal,
Exeter,
Devon.
EX2 6LT.

Phone No. 44- (0) 1932.493311. (On board)
eMail - headcase@eclipse.co.uk





From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  8 07:53:28 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1> <3.0.3.32.19980907233330.03679690@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <35F528C7.E3251BAF@bbtel.com>

James Willing wrote:

> At 11:25 PM 9/6/98 -0400, Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>:
> >    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..
> >
> >I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and
> Schematics
> >for the following classic computers:
> >
> >Osborne 01,
> >Osborne Executive
> >Kaypro Model 2
> >Kaypro Model 2X
>
> Well...  I don't have anything (that I know of, I forget sometimes  B^}  )
> for the Osbornes (tho I could probably use them too) but I do have a
> service manual set for the entire Kaypro (8-bit) line of computers.
>
> I can run you a copy of the whole thing, or the selected parts if you like.
>  I'd have to get a page count to figure the cost tho...
>
> I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

Not sure if the Osborne machines are listed as model OCC1 or OCC1A but if they
are you can get a ComputerFacts schematic from Sams as schematic CSCS-1. No
Kaypro machines are listed. Weird too as even that crappy little Sanyo MBC555
is listed in it as well as schematics for some of the more popular Teac 5.25"
drives.

Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a ton of them from the
Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how cost effective it might be to spend
the $$$ on a schematic for a $20 machine thoough.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 10:21:42 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <199809081304.PAA23101@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a ton of them from the
> Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how cost effective it might be to spend
> the $$$ on a schematic for a $20 machine thoough.

Maybe pure fun ? I just recently browsed the KIM Manuals :)

But USD 20 ? Expensive box huh ?

Gruss
H.

BTW:
 Anybody willing to host some 100 MB of
 scans ? While browsing I just decided
 to scan the KIM-1 USER MANUAL.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 08:15:41 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980908131541Z-1883@exch001.softwright.co.uk>

>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>> $20 machine thoough.

So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??

Jules
>


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 10:47:18 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <199809081330.PAA14918@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> Date:          Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:15:41 +0100
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Julian Richardson <JRichardson@softwright.co.uk>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       RE: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
> X-To:          "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

>>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>>> $20 machine thoough.

> So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
> them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
> scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
> information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??

Don't know in this case, but its still money to earn.
Every cent is at least 1/100 of a dollar.

:)
Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 08:42:53 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908094208.4262A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  8 08:48:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <199809081330.PAA14918@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <35F5359C.577BEDF5@bbtel.com>

Hans Franke wrote:

> >>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a
> >>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how
> >>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a
> >>> $20 machine thoough.
>
> > So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
> > them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
> > scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
> > information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??
>
> Don't know in this case, but its still money to earn.
> Every cent is at least 1/100 of a dollar.

 I believe it just has to do with the fact that they have it in print, and in many cases they are
copyrighting their time in reverse engineering it to get the schematic in the first place. Why do
companies copyright webpages? Still in viewable form and prone to being stolen essentially.
Another reason might be - just because they can.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU  Tue Sep  8 09:33:47 1998
From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <01J1K51O9WEQ8YI8SZ@AC.GRIN.EDU>

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
the story somewhere?

-- 
Ben Coakley  http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley/   coakley@ac.grin.edu
CBEL: Xavier OH                                          CMEL: Xavier


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 09:40:57 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <01J1K51O9WEQ8YI8SZ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908103940.4262H-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
> the story somewhere?

Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep  8 10:02:38 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980908100238.00bc6410@pc>

At 06:31 PM 9/7/98 +0000, wanderer wrote:
>Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
>people during the night shift?

I have a web page devoted to it.  One of these days, I'll fix it up.
Right now, it includes a dozen or two small images of teletype art,
as recreated from the original data with a program I wrote.  It
converts the overstrike art into an Adobe Illustrator file that
can be rasterized by PhotoShop.  I'd like to put the original
files online, but it would take many megabytes.

Contemporary ASCII art doesn't make much sense to me, but old
teletype / lineprinter art does.  It was a great way to squeeze
graphics from old machines.

You might also check out:
<http://cgi1.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/history.htm>
<http://cgi1.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/geobook.html>
<http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2695/links.htm>

- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>



From Marty at itgonline.com  Tue Sep  8 10:07:31 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <1998Sep08.110552.1767.136102@smtp.itgonline.com>

 If the article William is refering to is on the Retro-Computing 
 Society of RI, go to the Providence Journal home page then do a search 
 under computers. The article for the Retro museum will be first up in 
 line.
 
 Marty
 


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/8/98 10:43 AM


 > That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
 > the story somewhere?
 
 Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...
 
 William Donzelli
 william@ans.net
 
 
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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 10:07:21 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <19980908150722.14994.qmail@hotmail.com>





Well, the C64 had a schematic in the reference manual, as did the
Apple ][. I would be willing to photocopy either.
>>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>>> $20 machine thoough.
>
>So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
>them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
>scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
>information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??
>
>Jules
>>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 11:53:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <76759482.35f51399@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908095336.10537A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> Both the Prime systems I have are old 2250s (2044-90 & 901). I havn't looked
> at the cards but one is a low cabinet with CPU and Hard drive. The other is
> two low cabinets, the second holding a 1" Cipher Tape drive. Is there any
> interest in them or parts from them. Unless someone is interested they are a
> week or two from becoming parts & scrap. I am closing my warehouse shortly and
> need to get rid of them. If you have more questions or interest in them
> contact me directly at

Ugh!  If you guys don't work out some arrangement to save these please let
the list know so some heroes can cometo the rescue.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:06:03 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908094208.4262A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100546.10537D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm
> 
> William Donzelli
> william@ans.net

Sorry, the item you requested was not found. It may have expired,
          or you may have misspelled your request.

Hey William, what the hell was this?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:06:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908103940.4262H-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100639.10537E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> > That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
> > the story somewhere?
> 
> Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...

Well what was it!?!?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:13:17 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <1998Sep08.110552.1767.136102@smtp.itgonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908101257.10537G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Marty wrote:

>  If the article William is refering to is on the Retro-Computing 
>  Society of RI, go to the Providence Journal home page then do a search 
>  under computers. The article for the Retro museum will be first up in 
>  line.

Cool!  Excellent story.  Congratulations RCS guys!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 12:17:06 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100546.10537D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908131359.4262T-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Hey William, what the hell was this?

RCS/RI had a bit of nice PR in the Providence Journal. Try going to
www.projo.com and search for "computers". The first article to come up
should be "Humming to the oldies".

Apparently the articles expire quickly (hey, its "news"), but they get
archived for a while.

Its a shame they did not include the nice photo of a PDP-12 in the web
page, as the actual paper copy has.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 14:37:36 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <199809081720.TAA25731@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

I think it's still accessable - but now called:
http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190282.htm

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 13:57:41 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: old fax machine
Message-ID: <19980908185741.14527.qmail@hotmail.com>

I just found an old fax machine in the trash. It has two connectors
on the back: one is a DIN-6 labelled coupler. The other is DIN-8
marked NCU. The question is that I have neither coupler nor 'NCU',
and does anyone have any idea how to wire this thing to a phone line?
Is a coupler necessary, or can I wire the line right into the machine
if I figure out the DIN-5 connector's pinout? This is a PERSONALFAX II
, BTW.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 14:38:57 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908152957.4262V-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

I have seen plenty of Pr1mes in junkyards, but most had received "the
treatment" before I could pull them.

> What's wrong with my IBM Series/1? Well, other than it isn't quite in
> working condition... I have the CPU converted to 110v(from 220v), but
> nothing else is going quite that well. But I'm happy now that I have a
> PDP-11/84 :-) That reminds me, I'm going to be getting rid of three IBM
> 4967 hard drives(220v) and a rack(hesitant to give it up, but I need the
> room), as well as a 4959 expansion unit.

Please pull all of the parts that you can out of these units - boards,
heads, maybe a motor or two. S/1s definitely are not in the common
category, so those of us with them (I think that makes the two of us!)
will have spares in the future. We all know how standard IBM parts are...

> Never heard of them. But I do have a question... Considering how powerful
> computers are getting, where do you draw the line between micros, minis and
> mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 line,
> about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can even fit
> a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM has a
> PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from somewhere)...
> Looking back to older computers it's pretty easy, but with the newer stuff
> it gets confusing.

The line between micros and workstations is getting very dull, but minis
are still minis and mainframes are still mainframes. Sure, everything now
fits on one chip (or maybe a few - no more scads of misc), but minis tend
to be multiprocessor boxes with _loads_ of memory and expandability.
Mainframes, of course, can always be characterized by theie I/O channels.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 






From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep  8 11:43:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <m0zG5o8-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 10:35:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809082047.QAA06808@smtp.interlog.com>

On  7 Sep 98 at 19:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> >  It's been a while and my VICs are buried under a pile of other stuff but I
> > think the problem is that the box is a RF modulator that has to go directly
> > into your TV to split the signal into audio and video. I don't remember there 
> 
> Wait a second....
> 
> According to the Tech manual, the output from the VIC20 is composite 
> video and line level audio. There was an external RF modulator that 
> plugged into that socket and connected via a switchbox to the aerial 
> socket on a TV, but if you TV has composite video inputs, etc, then 
> there's no need to use a modulator.
> 
> It sounds like that's what the original poster was doing. The fact that 
> they got perfect video implies that _something_ was right - mix up RF and 
> composite video signals and you won't get anything.
> 
> -tony
> 
> 
 I just checked my old VIC20 Programmers manual from C= and
VIC20 manual both showing the pinouts. They call the pin 4 video low
and pin 5 video hi. The pin 1 +5v has a note 10mA max. Is it possible the
difference between the video pins was the hi-lo tuning on older TVs
(CH 2-7 .8-13 ?). That would explain why there were 2 plugs
on the RF modulator box output. A C64 plug with the 4 (or 2) line split-out 
would give him the composite and audio signals needed.
The Programmers manual is a great little book, C= also included the
schematics with it. I see that Q1 output is tied to both pin 4 and directly 
to pin 5 but with the pin 4 fed thru R8 a 47ohm r and with another line thru a 
75 ohm R8 to ground. The schematic also marks the 1pin as 6v . Why the 
discrepancy between the +5v pin 1 p-o diagrams in both of my C+ books and the 
schematic and your tech manuals' +6v ?

ciao		larry

  
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep  8 11:43:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
In-Reply-To: <199809071056.MAA23595@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809082047.QAA06789@smtp.interlog.com>

On  7 Sep 98 at 13:14, Hans Franke wrote:
 SNIP
> With exraordinary simple thinking one can easy develop all
> stages of an execution pipline for this opcode. Staight
> forward. Did I say develop ? There is noting to develop -
> reading the opcodes is like reading a step by step instruction
> to build the CPU.
> 
> Ok, maybe I'm overemphasing, but I love this structure.
> I did almost any microprocessor (from 1802 to 9900 and Z80)
> in the past 20 years, and some of the bigger architectures,
> but none equals the /370.
> 
> So, if you want to have fun, take the OP-Code table and
> solve the puzzle - or just keep the manual for 'real world'
> tasks, since this Assm is still valid for IBM (and compatible)
> Mainframes. I bet your taxes are calculated on one of 'em.

 Well it's unlikely anyone would let me anywhere near a mainframe but
from your description it sounds like it would be good just to study and
learn from.
> 
> Gruss
> H.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 12:58:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 7, 98 10:38:39 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGS2G-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 13:04:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]> from "John Rollins" at Sep 7, 98 09:21:19 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep  8 17:12:23 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980908140241.4a472248@ricochet.net>

At 07:37 PM 9/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Finding old characters like Chris Crawford?  Sheesh, doesn't anyone
>try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.) before asking a question

Whups, sorry.  I was just sort of reminiscing, while replying, not really
thinking.  Besides, I'm currently running windoze, and can't load Eudora
and Netscape at the same time.

>of the endlessly patient oracle known as this mailing list?  Crawford
>is still quite active as an old wise man in the gaming industry.

I'll check it out -- Thanks!


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 17:36:13 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <19980908223614.7302.qmail@hotmail.com>



I must comment that the real distinction is how they are marketed.
Earlier, the size of the machine denoted its power and utility. Now,
it's not possible to classify as easily. Plus, hardware gets outmoded
so quickly, it's not likely for anyone to buy a 'mainframe' these
days. PCs are pretty disposable now. Tony's rules are adequate, as
these distinctions closely mirror the target market of the machine.
>> mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 
line,
>> about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can 
even fit
>> a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM 
has a
>> PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from 
somewhere)...
>
>The rule I use is simple : 
>
>If the CPU is one chip (like a Z80, or a pentium) or a chipset that's 
>always used together to make that CPU (like a F11, or the early IBM 
6000 
>CPU) -> It's a micro
>
>If the CPU is a lot of standard chips (gates, flip-flops, ALUs, 
bit-slice 
>stuff), and it fits into at most a couple of 6' racks -> it's a mini
>
>If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.
>
>If it meets the 3M critera (Megabyte, Megapixel, Mips) -> it's a 
workstation.
>
>Now, this leads to some interesting ones. By that definition, a 
PDP11/23 
>is a micro. But a PDP11/34 is a mini. The 370-on-a-card is probably 
also 
>a micro.
>
>Note that 'workstation' says nothing about the CPU. I'd claim a Sun3 is 
a 
>worktation _and_ a micro. A PERQ 2 is a workstation and a mini. 
>
>Those definitions aren't perfect, but they seem to work for me.
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 16:57:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809082047.QAA06808@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 8, 98 04:43:29 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGVlX-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 18:03:59 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> The rule I use is simple : 

Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:

Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.

Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

Personal computer: an interactive computer small enough to fit on a desk
and inexpensive enough to be owned by a single average person.

Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
simultaneous users.

Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
simultaneously.

Supercomputer: a superscalar computer typically optimized for vector
operations.

and some finer grain classes:

Single-board computer: a computer with CPU, memory, and I/O support on a
single board.

Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
data processing and display facilities.

Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order to
reprogram.

All-in-one computer: a computer with built-in display, keyboard, and
storage device. 

Portable computer: an all-in-one computer designed to be easily
transportable by a single average person.

Laptop computer: a portable computer weighing less than 12 lbs.

Notebook computer: a laptop computer with A4 (8.5x11) dimensions or
smaller.

Handheld computer: a notebook computer weighing less than 2 lbs.

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep  8 18:42:39 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809082342.AA09606@world.std.com>


< Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
< 
< Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.

What if the cpu is multiple chips aka LSI-11?
 
< Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.
 

< Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
workststions.
 
< Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
< simultaneous users.

VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users.
 
< Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
< simultaneously.

Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically 
large.  AKA univac 1180.
 
< and some finer grain classes:
< 
....
< Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order t
< reprogram.

Maybe, or it can be a single board computer installed into a dedicated 
application.  Generally term embedded means dedicated to a task(or set of 
tasks).  One possible embedded machine is a national Nibble Basic or
intel 8052ah (basic or forth) chip with a keyboard, LCD and EEPROM.

Allison
 



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 19:11:03 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809082342.AA09606@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908185808.29282A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> 
> < Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
> < 
> < Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.
> 
> What if the cpu is multiple chips aka LSI-11?

I don't know why you would want to class that as a MPU.  Most of these
terms were invented because a new breed came into existance and it needed
a new name to distinguish it from what came before.  "Microprocessor"
was coined to celebrate a logic integration landmark: a computer on a
single chip.

> < Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.
> 
> What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.

OK, Microcomputer:  a computer that runs applications on a single
microprocessor.

I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

> < Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
> 
> What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
> workststions.

OK, Workstation: a computer with a bitmapped display designed to run a
non-Microsoft multitasking OS.

> < Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> < simultaneous users.
> 
> VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users.

OK, Minicomputer: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped
display, smaller than a mainframe. 

> < Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> < simultaneously.
> 
> Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically 
> large.  AKA univac 1180.

OK, Mainframe: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped display
that weighs at least one ton.

> < Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order t
> < reprogram.
> 
> Maybe, or it can be a single board computer installed into a dedicated 
> application.  Generally term embedded means dedicated to a task(or set of 
> tasks).  One possible embedded machine is a national Nibble Basic or
> intel 8052ah (basic or forth) chip with a keyboard, LCD and EEPROM.

Some people use PC's as dedicated controllers, but that doesn't make
a PC an embedded computer in my mind.  Cross-development seems to be the
only common factor when people talk about embedded, although there are
embedded environments, such as QNX, that support native development.

-- Doug



From pgrammen at sonic.net  Tue Sep  8 19:12:50 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <m0zFo3p-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net>

>Ok... It appears that the pins are _not_ numbered conventionally (from 
>fig 6-5, Main PCB component side in the TechRef).
>
>They seem to be : 
>      2
>   4  o  5
>   o     o
>1 o   o   o 3
>7 o   6   o 8
>
>The pinout is (from Fig 6-3, main PCB schematic 
>
>1 TL (Telephone)
>2 Gnd (System logic ground)
>3 RxMD (Telephone line, Telephone common)
>4 RxM (Acoustic coupler receive)
>5 TxM (Acoustic coupler transmit)
>6 Vdd (+5V output to power acoustic coupler)
>7 TxMd (Telephone line)
>8 RP (5V CMOS logic input. Beleived to be for an external ringing 
>detector unit for autoanswer. I can find no mention of this in the manuals)
>
>There are 2 switches on the left. One is marked Orig/Ans and selectes 
>Originate or Answer tones. The other is marked ACOP/DIR and selects 
>Acoustic coupler or Direct Connect operation.
>
>To link the thing up to a US phone line, direct connect : 
>
>Connect the phone line to pin 3 and pin 7 on the connector. The official 
>Tandy cable linked between a 'phone and the wall socket. The 'phone wires 
>go to pin 3 and pin 1
>

I verified your pinout info by tracing the connections and connected the
red phone wire to pin 7 and the green wire to pin 3. When I ran the
terminal program it hung and the internal speaker made a continuous static
hiss.  I exited the terminal program with a break command, and the static
stopped. 
One thing I'm confused about is your direction to connect the phone line to
pin 3 and 7, but saying that the Tandy cable goes to pins 3 and 1. I must
be missing something here. I looked up phone wiring, and found that the
green wire is called "Tip" and is like a common, and the red wire is "Ring". 

Any ideas on where I went wrong? 
-Paul



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:14:35 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908195713.26350B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

Almost ALL machines today use just a few chips (at most) in the CPU. The
days of little glue logic chips are long gone. Some S/390s, for example,
typically use only two chips in the CPU, and only for redundancy! Same
with the AS/400s.

> Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Unix? What about other OSes? Even NT...

> Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> simultaneous users.

Many minis do not timeshare - embedded control was and is a favorite duty.
PDP-8s were single user machines (yeah, I know about TSS/8, so keep
quite!), yet when someone says "mini", they instantly come to mind of many
people.

> Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> simultaneously.

Many mainframe applications do not have lots of people online, all tapping
away at their terminals. Some of the big boxes do their best work when
everyone is sleeping. 
 
I think the best definition for a "mainframe" is a machine designed not
for processor speed, but I/O speed (thus the use of channels - some
mainframe CPUs actually _idle_ under a heavy load, because the channels
are doing all the work).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:18:20 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908185808.29282A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908201650.26350C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:24:50 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <19980908223614.7302.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908202259.26350E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> ...it's not likely for anyone to buy a 'mainframe' these
> days.

Do not tell IBM, or they might stop shipping S/390s. That would put a few
people out of work!

> >If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.

Actually, I like this definition, too.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:16:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 8, 98 06:03:59 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGXwN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:29:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908195713.26350B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 08:14:35 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:35:17 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net> from "Paul Grammens" at Sep 8, 98 05:12:50 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGYED-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 19:53:15 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGXwN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908194021.29282D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
> 
> This one actually had an official definition when workstations were first 
> designed. It was called the '3M' criteria (nothing to do with the 3M of 
> tape/disk fame).
> 
> The 3 M's were : 
> 
> Megabyte - approximately 1 Megabyte or more of RAM
> 
> Megapixel - a bitmapped display with about 1 million pixels (or more) 
> 
> MIPS - about 1 VAX MIPS (11/780-speed) of CPU power
> 
> To those I would add
> 
> Personal - it's designed to be used by one person sitting in front of it. 
> It's not _designed_ for remote logins (although of course it may support 
> them). It may or may not be multitasking
> 
> Networkable - However, it is designed to be networked to other machines.

The problem with this definition is that it would include a PC running
Windows.  Very few seem to be willing to call that a workstation.

A workstation has to be *designed* to be networked, graphical, and
multitasking.  The Amiga would have been a workstation if it has
networking built-in.  If somebody built a PC that had networking built-in
and ran Windows NT, but could not run MS-DOS, I might be willing to call
that a workstation.

> > Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
> > data processing and display facilities.
> 
> We have this debate at HPCC (UK HP user club). The general view there is 
> that a calculator is designed for numeric operations (although it may 
> well have alphanumeric ones as well), and probably has separate keys for 
> common maths functions like SIN and LOG. 

When HP came out with the 9800 series, they introduced three models: the
9810, 9820, and 9830.  The first two were classed as "function per key"
calculators to distinguish them from the 9830, which was really a
computer.

> Something like an HP48 is clearly a calculator, but it has string 
> handling, list operations, I/O, etc as standard. It can even drive a 
> video display (or at least mine does....)

I consider the HP48 to be solidly a hybrid.  It has all the elements to be
classed a handheld computer.  In addition, it also has a user interface
that makes it easy to use as a calculator.  The 41 and 28 are in the same
camp.  The 9100, 9810, 9815, 65, etc are all solidly in the "programmable
calculator" camp simply because they don't handle full alphanumerics.

-- Doug



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Tue Sep  8 19:58:55 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980909105854.0084d5c0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 08:07 8/09/98 PDT, Max Eskin <maxeskin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well, the C64 had a schematic in the reference manual, as did the
>Apple ][. I would be willing to photocopy either.

If you're after schematics for Commodore micros, check out
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/index.html

There are schematics for the C128, C64, VIC-20, Plus-4, PET2001, PET8032,
KIM-1 and various peripherals such as floppy disk drives, printers,
datasettes, etc.

Regards,

|     Scott McLauchlan    |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads |
| Client Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation."    |
|  University of Canberra |___________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_|
|scott@cts.canberra.edu.au| http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |


From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  8 19:36:33 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: I'm UP!
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS2G-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980908173455.1506A-100000@crash.cts.com>

 
 Thanks to the loan of the tapes by Hank, the many helpful hints from
 Allison, the tip from Zane about standalone Backup, and the dumb luck
 of stumbling across some DEC manuals for installation and update of VMS
 v5.5 at the local swapmeet, it looks like I am on the way to having an
 operational MicroVAX/Station 2000.
 
 The manuals told me that Backup was contained in Tape #2/2 and, even
 though it was not so labled as containing it, Backup booted up.  They
 also provided the correct syntax for a number of needed commands.  I'm
 sure that they will prove most helpful in other areas also.
 
 As I write, the machine has booted off the RD54 and is busily loading
 DECwindows and all that other good stuff that comes in the installation
 kit.  Mandatory Update will follow, and somewhere along the line I can
 enter my hobbyist license information (makes me honest :-)).
 
 I am sure that I will have more questions, but I certainly appreciate
 the help that I have been given.
                                                - don
 



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:01:51 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Sep 8, 98 07:04:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809090101.TAA11557@calico.litterbox.com>

I look at it from the perspective of "what was it designed to do?"

If it was designed to sit on or beside a desktop with a single user (a big
clue is, does it have a memory mapped graphics system), then it's probably
a micro or a workstation.  All PCs, All Macs, and so forth fall into this 
category.  With the right OS a micro can do the WORK of a small mini, but it's
still a micro.

If it was designed to sit in a wiring closet or a cubical and service multiple
users either via xwindows, dumb terminals, file service, printer service, and
so on, and can support a number of users simultaniously, and if it has a 
serial port for communicating with its console, it's probably a mini.  
All Vaxen, and I'd say all PDP11s (never met one with a memory mapped screen) 
and so on are minis.

If it has the same qualifications as a mini, but takes up more than say 4 racks,
*requires* air conditioning, it's a mainframe.  An additional clue - mainframes
usually don't speak unix.  A mainframe does exactly the same job as a mini,
except that it's much larger and can handle many more users.

My reasoning for this division is something Steve Wozniac is supposed to have
said, that really all the early "micros" before the apple were just small
minis - they handled like minis, they interacted like mini's.  With the advent
of the memory mapped, integrated graphics system, the micro became a class unto
itself.,

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Tue Sep  8 20:01:06 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <001701bddb8d$52d05aa0$87b0adce@5x86jk>

yes I have a working HERO,Jr  John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Jim
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 1998 1:38 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: robots?
>
>
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or
> other robots
> of that vintage?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 20:21:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090101.TAA11557@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> If it has the same qualifications as a mini, but takes up more than say 4 racks,
> *requires* air conditioning, it's a mainframe.  An additional clue - mainframes
> usually don't speak unix.  A mainframe does exactly the same job as a mini,
> except that it's much larger and can handle many more users.

I seem to defending the mainframe today...

Anyway, mainframes are not big minis! Minis are generally very interactive
(process terminal keypresses one at a time, or maybe respond to external
signals from an A/D box). Mainframes are not interactive things - they
like to work on huge jobs that require moving tons of information on 
disk or tape to more disk or tape, often with little human interaction at
all. Take a look at IBMs terminals (327x) - they are quite smart, sending
out whole chunks of data, preassembled for the mainframe. The mainframe
need not be bothered dealing with escape characters and such to move the
cursor around - it has better things to do. The less keypresses, the
better.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net  



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:27:40 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:21:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809090127.TAA11736@calico.litterbox.com>

Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 20:41:11 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090127.TAA11736@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
> learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)

I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
TCP/IP and you will see black and white).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Tue Sep  8 20:47:38 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:41:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809090147.VAA16323@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
> > Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
> > learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)
> 
> I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
> misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
> are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
> way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
> benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
> TCP/IP and you will see black and white).
> 
> William Donzelli
> william@ans.net 
> 
> 

Well, as an old DEC guy who later worked for IBM... I agree, although
with Posix Compliant mainframe software that meets the Unix spec
and runs the Apache webserver... mainframes aren't mainframes anymore.

(at least not the IBM 390 class ones which look like a cross between
a mainframe and a Unix server)

I do feel some of the flavor of the mini's is missed by the current
Unix de jour environment today.  VAX/VMS is not Unix or HP's MPE or 
Concurrent's OS/32 (which feels very IBM Mainframe -- with block mode
terminals and VTAM/ITAM type access).

I miss RSTS/E, RSX11(M,M+), IAS, RT11 on DEC stuff and the other
neat OS's for DEC -- MUMPS, PICK etc...

Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:50:42 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:41:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809090150.TAA11874@calico.litterbox.com>

I didn't interpret it as a flame.  I don't object to being corrected when I'm
wrong, and my only mainframe experience was via a terminal emulator box
doing course data transactions with an IBM.  I'd always heard that Crays
were best fed a colossal program and left alone, but didn't realise it held true
for most/all mainframes.

Speaking of Crays, one of the first *big* computers to inspire lust in my 
heart was a Cray 1.  Anyone got one of THOSE in the basement? :)  And can
anyone tell me how they stack up to modern computers performancewise?  I was
exposed to one at an impressionable young age at the National Center for 
Atmospheric Research, and know next to nothing about them.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep  8 21:21:38 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980908182004.6067f180@ricochet.net>

At 12:08 AM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other
robots
> of that vintage?

There's been a few HERO's on ebay lately.  (Don't ask what they sold for.)  

Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep  8 21:35:35 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809090235.AA21995@world.std.com>

I'm picking as I've been around long enough in the industry to see what I 
call retrorevisionism.  It's the terminology creep that has been occuring 
since the PC became the computer for all things.  Though its been going on 
for load longer.

< I don't know why you would want to class that as a MPU.  Most of these
< terms were invented because a new breed came into existance and it neede
< a new name to distinguish it from what came before.  "Microprocessor"
< was coined to celebrate a logic integration landmark: a computer on a
< single chip.

the terms were invented after the fact.

< > < Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.
< > 
< > What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.
< 
< OK, Microcomputer:  a computer that runs applications on a single
< microprocessor.

Lessee, my visual 1050 uses the 6502 for video and a z80 for the main cpu 
and a z80 for the MFM hard disk controller (all running concurrently).  
Teh single cpu thing is a sticking point.  

Try: A computer based on microprocessors.

< I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

Or the s100 4 z80 loosely coupled SMP running CP/M2.2... Terminology 
sorta gets mashed.

< > < Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped displa
< > 
< > What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
< > workststions.
< 
< OK, Workstation: a computer with a bitmapped display designed to run a
< non-Microsoft multitasking OS.

;') a NON PC pc.

< > < Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 10
< > < simultaneous users.
< > 
< > VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users
< 
< OK, Minicomputer: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped
< display, smaller than a mainframe. 

What about a MicrovaxII servicing a half dozen Xterms?  Or a 11/780 
equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?

Minicomputer: something significantly smaller and cheaper than mainframes 
of the time.  The definition was based on compact size not IO interface
or the presence or lack of a bit mapped display.

< > < Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more user
< > < simultaneously.
< > 
< > Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically
< > large.  AKA univac 1180.
< 
< OK, Mainframe: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped displa
< that weighs at least one ton.

Oh dear.. the video displays on some of the big ums...  Actually the break 
point was again size and especially cost.  At the time mini and mainframe 
were in vogue the difference was around 10/1 in cost and around the same 
or greater for weight.

< Some people use PC's as dedicated controllers, but that doesn't make
< a PC an embedded computer in my mind.  Cross-development seems to be th
< only common factor when people talk about embedded, although there are
< embedded environments, such as QNX, that support native development.

PDP-8s and 11s were some of the mainstays for embedded controls work
and some had local resources enough to develop insitu.  Your viewpoint
is influenced by the current vogue.  ***An embedded system is simply a
system that has a computer (ANY!) burried/coupled to it.***  It could be 
a NC mill with a PDP-8, a production line with a PDP-15 or in later years 
a PLC or a process control system with a s100 crate and Compucolor board 
and color CRT.  I have seen and worked on all of these and more.

Allison



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 21:35:26 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <9a65e737.35f5e96e@aol.com>

BIG TRAK
grrr, i always wanted one of those things! it had a keypad where you punched
in coordinates and then it would carry them out. it also had lazer guns which
you could also program to flash i think. there was an optional dump trailer
too. im sure you could probably find one on epay.com for serveral hundred $.
came out in the early 80's i believe. 

david


In a message dated 9/8/98 10:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:

<< There's been a few HERO's on ebay lately.  (Don't ask what they sold for.) 
 
 Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
 could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
 bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
 gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^( >>


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Tue Sep  8 21:41:00 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
Message-ID: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca>

Hi All:

Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings for the 8 DIP switches
on a DEC M8357 TX01/RX02 controller?

Thanks,

Kevin


-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From jhfine at idirect.com  Tue Sep  8 22:21:44 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <35F5F448.BFE63BC0@idirect.com>

>James Willing wrote:

> 1) Cypher 9 track tape drive.  800/1600 bpi, 125IPS transport. Just the
> drive, no cabinet.
>
> 1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
> top bay.
>
> Drop me a note if interested.  Note: my ISP is having problems with their
> dial up lines (darn US West anyway!) so my access to email is a bit
> sporadic at present...  So don't panic if I don't get right back to you...

Jerome Fine replies:

While I would appreciate the tape drive in order to read some
DEC RT-11 distributions which are now only on 9-track tape,
I understand the drive is VERY heavy.

Also, although the 11/84 is a monster overall, it would be worthwhile
if it were going to the dumpster to at least save the CPU board
which can also be used in a Qbus, but not the memory.

Incidentally, I am in Toronto.    Postage code is M2R 3G3.

Please advise.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Tue Sep  8 23:17:05 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Byte 1st Year in Need of Homej
Message-ID: <3617010f.469236796@insight>

I spotted this in a newsgroup - thought someone might want to contact
him about these mags.  I have no connection with them or with him.

>
>Hi,
>
>I have a set of the first year+ BYTE mags from
>1975-1976. I have issue #1 (Sept. 75) complete
>through Dec. 76. Is there a market for these
>or should i just toss em? It is kinda interesting
>looking at the PC world before there were PCs
>and the evil empire did not exist.
>
>Opinions welcome,
>kbt
>
>P.S. If you email direct make sure the address is:
>
>keith.thompson@east.sun.com

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Tue Sep  8 23:25:18 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: PSU question
Message-ID: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com>

I need to test a possibly bad PSU for an Apple II+.  Can anyone 
(tony?) tell me what I should use for a dummy load?

Thanks.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  9 00:26:11 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21bc02bcc6f@[207.220.32.195]>

>Hi All:
>
>Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings for the 8 DIP switches
>on a DEC M8357 TX01/RX02 controller?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin

Well, the book I've got identifies the M8357 as a RX8E Interface for PDP-8
Omnibus, the M7846 is the RX11 interface for PDP-11 Unibus.  In any case
here is the table.

			Zane



			RX8E (M8357)

	SW1	SW2	SW3	SW4	SW5	SW6
*670X	on	on	on	off	off	off
671X	on	on	off	off	off	on
672X	on	off	on 	off	on	off
673X	on	off	off	off	on	on
674X	OFF	on	on	on	off	off
675X	off	on	off	on	off	on
676X	off	off	on	on	on	off
677X	off	off	off	on	on	on

*Standard
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Wed Sep  9 00:07:53 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: RX01: DIP switch settings - Found Answer!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908230205.008102f0@fw.itm-inst.com>
References: <199809090237.TAA29082@fraser.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980908220753.02fec6d0@ferrari.sfu.ca>

Hi Group:

Thanks to Rick Murphy, I have the answer to my query. Turns out that the
info was also on my own website, in the RX01/02 maintenance manual. I
should've looked there first!

See http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8 for pdp-8 docs, software, and other info.
Kevin


At 11:02 PM 98/09/08 -0400, you wrote:
>At 07:37 PM 9/8/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote:
>>Hi Group:
>>
>>Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings on the M8357
>>RX01/RX02 interface board? There are 8 switches in the block.
>
>Switch 7 and 8 are not connected. S1-S6 set the IOT (device code).
>
>            S1 S2 S3 S4 S5 S6 S7 S8
>Normal (75)  0  1  0  1  0  1 NC NC
>Other  (76)  0  0  1  1  1  0 NC NC
>
>On the RX02 M7744 module, set S1-1/S1-2 to off.
>	-Rick
>
>
>

---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:11:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908220616.12917G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
> 
> Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.
> 
> Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

What about dual-CPU desktop Pentium machines?  What are those?

> Personal computer: an interactive computer small enough to fit on a desk
> and inexpensive enough to be owned by a single average person.

Define "inexpensive" again?

> Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Eww.

> Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> simultaneous users.

What about a PC running Linux?

> Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> simultaneously.

What about a souped-up, dual processor PC running Linux with 128 serial
ports (it CAN be done)?

> Single-board computer: a computer with CPU, memory, and I/O support on a
> single board.

So this includes: Apple ][+, Commodore 64, IBM PC, the Pentium box sitting
beside my desk?

> Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
> data processing and display facilities.

So this would be a Kim-1, AIM-65, SYM-1, any-single-board-computer-with-a
-keypad-and-limited-LED-display?

> All-in-one computer: a computer with built-in display, keyboard, and
> storage device. 

No printer?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:35:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223456.12917I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> signals from an A/D box). Mainframes are not interactive things - they
> like to work on huge jobs that require moving tons of information on 
> disk or tape to more disk or tape, often with little human interaction at
> all. Take a look at IBMs terminals (327x) - they are quite smart, sending
> out whole chunks of data, preassembled for the mainframe. The mainframe
> need not be bothered dealing with escape characters and such to move the
> cursor around - it has better things to do. The less keypresses, the
> better.

I think you're definitely on to something here.  This is the best
distinction I've seen yet to describe a mainframe.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:39:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980908182004.6067f180@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(

My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
by Radio Shack?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:45:02 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908224246.12917K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
6502/Commodore PET fame.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 02:20:50 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F62C52.6ADA857A@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
> 
> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
> 
> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
> by Radio Shack?

No, though I think Radio Shack did resell them for a couple of years,
likely relabeled.  As was (and is) common with Radio Shack, though
this last few years there's less relabeling.  Back in the 80-86
period when I was with the company, the normal percentage was 40% of
the products in a product line were manufactured by Tandy Corp.  In
computers, the ratio was higher, though almost all printers were
relabels.  Aside from the Pocket Computers, the first Radio Shack
computer manufactured outside and relabeled was the 1200HD, built by
Tandon, an XT clone with no redeeming value other than filling the gap
until the 1000 series was functional -- the 1200HD had an incredible
rate of motherboard replacement under warranty, charged against the
managers of the selling stores -- I've heard rumors the buyer _was_
fired for it eventually.  To the best of my knowledge that pattern
held to the early '90s, though with increased influx of peripherals
by other companies (many components of course were always from
outside), until the hardware market became so unprofitable that
Tandy sold the computer manufacturing capability to AST.

(It's a pain to go into a Radio Shack store and find no computers on
displays except Aptivas or whatever the brand of the month might be.
It's worse to find nobody who knows that Radio Shack was once a
serious and innovative computer manufacturer -- I've had better luck
there at Computer City, where a lot of long-time Radio Shack folks
who's been around migrated when Tandy opened that chain -- who knows
where they'll go with the sale of Computer City to the incompetents
at CompUSA?)

I am no longer a stockholder in Tandy Corporation.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  9 06:37:45 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <00c701bddbe6$44425200$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

>On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>> > Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
>The problem with this definition is that it would include a PC running
>Windows.  Very few seem to be willing to call that a workstation.
>
>A workstation has to be *designed* to be networked, graphical, and
>multitasking.  The Amiga would have been a workstation if it has
>networking built-in.  If somebody built a PC that had networking built-in
>and ran Windows NT, but could not run MS-DOS, I might be willing to call
>that a workstation.
>
How about the iMac it has networking built in and AFAIK doen't run MS stuff.
I think that todays machines are so versatile that it is pretty hard to
differenciate them out of the box, The way they are used makes them a
workstation, a server, a personal computer or what not, not the hardware
itself.



From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 08:23:15 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: PSU question
Message-ID: <9808099053.AA905372754@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

> I need to test a possibly bad PSU for an Apple II+.  Can anyone 
> (tony?) tell me what I should use for a dummy load?

I don't know what the Apple ][ or // used in the way of current, but 
Commodore PETs of that date used 2 to 4 amps, I think.  (Early PETs, 
iirc, had 4 1A regulator chips on different bits of 5V rail).

You want something to draw around 1/2 to 1 amp.  6V torch (flashlight) 
bulb - one of the nice krypton ones that runs of a big rectangular 
battery would be ideal.  12V 10W car lamp bulb would do, though it won't 
glow more than dull orange when working.  10 ohm resistor would work, 
but it probably needs to be a really big fat one - in a rectangular 
ceramic package or with built in alumin(i)um heatsink.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Philip.



From william at ans.net  Wed Sep  9 08:25:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090150.TAA11874@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909091738.9183B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I'd always heard that Crays
> were best fed a colossal program and left alone, but didn't realise it held true
> for most/all mainframes.

Crays (at least the old ones) like to be left alone to crunch, requiring
human interaction just about every day when they crash or break (the price
of being in front of the edge). The new ones are better.

> Speaking of Crays, one of the first *big* computers to inspire lust in my 
> heart was a Cray 1.  Anyone got one of THOSE in the basement?

Well, I am looking...Cray, ETA, Connection Machine, Convex, Multiflow,
MasPas, nCube...

They are out there - I think one of the M$ biggies has a small collection
of Crays and CMs.

Then there is that ETA-10P in the basement of a high school out here on
the East Coast.

> And can
> anyone tell me how they stack up to modern computers performancewise?  I was
> exposed to one at an impressionable young age at the National Center for 
> Atmospheric Research, and know next to nothing about them.

The line is really getting close these days. An UltraSPARC or Pentium
whatever has the horsepower in the CPU, but the old Crays still beat them
out for I/O bandwidth (and resulting sustained floating point
performance). That should fall quite soon, then it will be up to
the X/MPs to carry the Cray standard.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:11:33 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

> These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
> essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.

So this PC, I'm curently working on, on my desktop with 4 CPUs
and Win 3.51, is a Mini ? Gosh - I always thought is was just an
ordinary PC for my dayly Tasks with Word & co.

:)
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:11:33 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091354.PAA16854@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> The rule I use is simple : 

> If the CPU is one chip (like a Z80, or a pentium) or a chipset that's 
> always used together to make that CPU (like a F11, or the early IBM 6000 
> CPU) -> It's a micro

> If the CPU is a lot of standard chips (gates, flip-flops, ALUs, bit-slice 
> stuff), and it fits into at most a couple of 6' racks -> it's a mini

> If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.

> If it meets the 3M critera (Megabyte, Megapixel, Mips) -> it's a workstation.

> Now, this leads to some interesting ones. By that definition, a PDP11/23 
> is a micro. But a PDP11/34 is a mini. The 370-on-a-card is probably also 
> a micro.

> Note that 'workstation' says nothing about the CPU. I'd claim a Sun3 is a 
> worktation _and_ a micro. A PERQ 2 is a workstation and a mini. 

> Those definitions aren't perfect, but they seem to work for me.

I think ruling the CPU isn't exatly the way to describe this
classes, since even a mainframe type computer can have singe
chip processors, and a micro can consist of a whole chip graveyard.

But your Note leads a trace: try the design goal as class.

So, a mainframe is a general purpose computer specaly designed
to transport, merge and modify data like a big steel plant
modifies iron. Using only a small number of programms but serving
the same task a _huge_ mass of users. Usualy these are just /370ish
designs.

A Mini is some kind of 'big' computer designed to serve
a lot of people in an individual sense, giving every
user (and sometimes even every single programm) the
feeling of a complete independant computer. The OS is
wasing a lot of resouces (not needed on mainframes) to
ensure coexistence, fast programm change etc. The OS is
mostly unix-like.

A Workstation is 4M (you just missed the Megabucks :).
A workstaton serves the needs of only one user.
The OS is in most cases very graphic-able orientated.

An average PC is just a workstation on a lower level, running
several different application (maybe even at the same time)
to serve every person as his own computer like a mini, but
without sharing anything. The OS is almost complete graphic
orientated.

I think this sceme is sufficient for all GPC. If you miss
the micro, its just because it represents no class of its
own. The micro can be just a very small mini, or he is a
PC(Workstation). Didn't the Wozniak once state that every
micro before the A2 was just a small singe user mini ?

Gruss
H.



--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Wed Sep  9 09:07:24 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
> > These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
> > essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.
> 
> So this PC, I'm curently working on, on my desktop with 4 CPUs
> and Win 3.51, is a Mini ? Gosh - I always thought is was just an

A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.

On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.

  -Wayne




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:39:56 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091422.QAA02649@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
>>> learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)

>> I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
>> misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
>> are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
>> way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
>> benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
>> TCP/IP and you will see black and white).

> Well, as an old DEC guy who later worked for IBM... I agree, although

So, there are at least tree of us holding the
banner for the real (big) guys :)

> with Posix Compliant mainframe software that meets the Unix spec
> and runs the Apache webserver... mainframes aren't mainframes anymore.

Oh-Oh, did you ever took a look at the resulting ASSM code ?
Did yo uever trace the extreamly inperformant I/O calls for
unix like file systems ?

A mainframe can only produce it's marvelous throughput if
the data is well prepared - handling every byte of a string
inside a loop and check for zero is like using a using a
truck for moving a pice of paper.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep  9 10:29:46 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.co
 m>
References: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980909102946.3c8fd81a@intellistar.net>

At 10:07 AM 9/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
>NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
>pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
>of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.
>
>On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
>keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.
>
>  -Wayne
>

  Geez,  I'll bet that that one smoked!   Sounds like just what you need to
run Windozes '95 effectively.

   Joe



From erd at infinet.com  Wed Sep  9 09:38:42 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 9, 98 10:07:24 am
Message-ID: <199809091438.KAA02932@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
> NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
> pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
> of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.

We use them at work, here.  The model that I have personally seen that most 
resembles your description is the NCR 3555.  We have those and bigger boxes
like the NCR 4380, which I think runs PPro boards, not just Pentia.  NCR's
latest offerings are PCI, not Microchannel, at least.  They do have some nice
quad-SCSI cards, fiber serial cards (AT&T Datakit) and more, but no sound
card.  :-(

> On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
> keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.
> 
>   -Wayne

I got such a kick out of that when I saw someone boot DOS to run a diagnostic
package that I commented on what a nice Quake server this $100K (new) server
would make.  I got such a dirty look.  ;-)







From pgrammen at sonic.net  Wed Sep  9 12:38:47 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <m0zGYED-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909103847.00793ae0@pop.sonic.net>

>Are you sure _anything_ is wrong? By default the sound from the phone 
>line is routed (much distorted) to the internal speaker, I think. You 
>might just have been hearing a distorted dial tone.
>

It works! Thanks for the help, Tony. The static sound is apparently the
carrier. I got it to work by connecting the phone wires per your
instructions and using the dialer to dial, THEN entering the terminal mode.
With the external modem I was entering the terminal mode and typing Hayes
modem commands to dial, etc. That doesn't work with the internal 300 baud
modem. 

Thanks again for the detailed information!
-Paul



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 13:34:18 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Need an obituary for Don Tarbell
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909113027.26554B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Hello all.

If you're not aware of this, Don Tarbell, of the famous Tarbell Cassette
standard, died earlier this year.  Someone posted about this on the list
around the time he passed on.

I'd like to display an "obituary" at the Vintage Computer Festival.  I'll
give a free pass to this (or a future) Vintage Computer Festival and a VCF
t-shirt to anyone who wants to write up an obituary for Mr. Tarbell.

Ideally, the write-up should include his contributions to the world of
computing, including a good historical account of his cassette standard
and other technical acheivements, as well as what companies he founded,
etc.  The requisite obituary information such as date of birth/death,
hometown, etc. should also be included.

I would need to have this by the 20th or so.  Please contact me by private
e-mail if you are interested.  Thanks!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Wed Sep  9 14:33:30 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Even better book source
In-Reply-To: <199809091438.KAA02932@user2.infinet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909153147.19956A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

Over the weekend, someone (Sam?) posted about the ABE book source on the
'net.  I told a friend about it, and got this response:

>Tell your friend to try:
>www.mxbf.com    MX BookFinders
>This is a guy who wrote a search of ABE plus about a dozen other sites.
>It searches them all at the same time, even takes a price range or first
>edition request.  He then forwards your request to the company and you're
>on your way.  I've got a used book coming from Australia.


  -Wayne




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 17:30:32 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <199809092013.WAA07090@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
> person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
> 6502/Commodore PET fame.

The last thing I remember is his role as some kind of chairman for 
Tandon - somewhen around 1989 or 1990.


Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Wed Sep  9 15:22:03 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F505A325DD@RED-MSG-43>

Heh heh, this took some doing, but I got it for ya, phone # coming in
private mail.

Kai

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:45 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!



I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
6502/Commodore PET fame.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]


From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  9 15:34:34 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 8, 98 10:39:51 pm
Message-ID: <199809092034.NAA02981@goodnet.com>

> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
> 
> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
> 
> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made

When I was in 4th grade a classmate had one.  We were all jealous of course.
I think he said it went for $80.

Seems like maybe it picked itself up on a turntable in order to make 
turns in-place.  I'm pretty sure the wheels didn't steer.

-- 


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Wed Sep  9 11:46:07 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
In-Reply-To: <199809092013.WAA07090@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809092022.QAA10771@commercial.cgocable.net>

While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner 
have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.

Contact him:

george@compurent.net

His location of business:

Kingston, Ontario, Canda
481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3

PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!

email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  9 15:52:36 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809092052.NAA03329@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
>could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
>bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
>gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(

I have one of the 4.5v Lego/Dacta Robotics kits that hooks up to my Apple 
IIe (conveniently making this post on-topic).  I bought it through the 
school when Lego discontinued the kits last year.  The system is based on 
Logo.  The motors and sensors connect to the external interface box, 
which is connected to the Apple IIe via a 20 pin ribbon cable and 
interface card (which I think is really just a scaled down serial card).

There are touch sensors, optosensors, motors, and lights for the kit.  I 
currently have mine set up around my 9v Lego train, using the sensors to 
detect when it passes, the motors to raise and lower the crossing gates.

There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Wed Sep  9 16:11:47 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>

>> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
>> 
>> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
>> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
>> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
>> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
>> 
>> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
>> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
>
>When I was in 4th grade a classmate had one.  We were all jealous of course.
>I think he said it went for $80.
>
>Seems like maybe it picked itself up on a turntable in order to make 
>turns in-place.  I'm pretty sure the wheels didn't steer.
>
I believe you're talking about the Mattel "Big Trak"?  My nephews had one of
those many years ago.  I believe it used tank-type steering; six wheels, and
it could either lock one set and pivot using the others, or reverse one
side.  I've got some surplus gearboxes and motors from the Big Trak that I
purchased several years ago.  They're kind of neat; they have two motors and
gear trains, linked together with a couple of big magnets.  If you run both
in the same direction, the magnets are strong enough to force both motors to
turn at the same speed.  If you reverse one of the motors, the magnets
alternately repel and attract.  This either forces the machine to drive in a
straight line, or to pivot about its center, respectively.  They also have
an optical interrupter on one gear so the CPU can tell how far the motors
have turned.  It had a hookup to dump the trailer, and I think some other
options that never were released.  It was a pretty cool toy.  

A quick web search found this:

BigTrak User's Guide:
http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/brown/BT_UG/

BigTrak Simulator Project:
http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/corke/

BigTrak Repair Service:
http://www.lavalamp.demon.co.uk/bigtrak/bigtrak.htm

                                        Bill Richman
                                        incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                                        (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                                         microcomputer simulator!)



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:37:53 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908194021.29282D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 8, 98 07:53:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoBo-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 13:11:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <9808099053.AA905372754@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Sep 9, 98 01:23:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoiA-000IyTC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:51:53 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Sep 8, 98 07:41:00 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoPM-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:59:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 8, 98 11:25:18 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoWH-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 17:16:22 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
References: <199809092022.QAA10771@commercial.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <35F6FE36.126550BB@cnct.com>

jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:
> 
> While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner
> have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.
> 
> Contact him:
> 
> george@compurent.net
> 
> His location of business:
> 
> Kingston, Ontario, Canda
> 481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3
> 
> PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!

(It's too far away or I'd jump at it).

The Tandy 6000HD is the version of the Tandy 6000 with one of the two
built-in floppy drives (8" half-height double-sided) replaced with a
15 Mbyte hard drive.  The CPU is an 8MHz 68000 that has a Z-80 CPU to
handle I/O (in fact, the Z-80 can boot all by itself to run older
software for the TRS-80 Model II or Model 12).  The normal operating
system is Xenix.  Stock RAM is 512K or 1Mb.  I'll be putting up a
bunch of info on the Tandy 2/12/16/6000 line when I finally get to
have a web page stored on my local systems instead of the measily
10 Mb my ISP allocates -- a fast link a static IP address through the
cable TV company is supposed to be available _sometime_ this quarter.
When that happens, I also hope to provide a guest login to the Tandy
Xenix system through a serial connection from my Linux box.  (Also
the AT&T Unix PC and maybe even the Coco 3 running OS-9 Level II).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 17:35:36 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <m0zGoWH-000IyRC@p850ug1>
References: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 8, 98 11:25:18 pm
Message-ID: <199809092130.QAA02139@trailingedge.com>

Thanks Tony.  I'll see about picking up the blubs this weekend and 
give it a try.

> Now, all you need to load is the +5V line and maybe the +12V line. About
> 1A on the former and 200mA on the latter. 
> 
> Try using a 6V 6W bulb between the +5V pin and ground (it doesn't matter
> which ground pin you use) and a 12V 2W (or 2.2W, which is more common in
> the UK) bulb between the +12V pin and ground. The latter is a common car
> bulb, and the former should be available from a car shop that still
> supplies parts for old vehicles (or maybe a motorbike shop?)


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  8 19:51:59 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
Message-ID: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>


    While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
thing).

    Does anyone have any info on this beast?

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  8 19:48:59 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
Message-ID: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice>

    I was thinking about this the other night {it was a slow night :-)} --
how does the DC option on the PDP-11 work (besides the obvious)? My 11/34
has a DC light on the panel, but I know that my unit did not come with a
battery backup unit.

    What was involved with the DC option? Was it a special PSU and
batteries? Or was it a board and separate UPS?

    Just curious...

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From cdrmool at interlog.com  Wed Sep  9 17:36:02 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
In-Reply-To: <35F6FE36.126550BB@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909183508.14561A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Can you tell me a bit more?  I can go and grab this fairly soon but what
does he want for it?   


Colan





On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:
> > 
> > While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner
> > have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.
> > 
> > Contact him:
> > 
> > george@compurent.net
> > 
> > His location of business:
> > 
> > Kingston, Ontario, Canda
> > 481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3
> > 
> > PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!
> 
> (It's too far away or I'd jump at it).
> 
> The Tandy 6000HD is the version of the Tandy 6000 with one of the two
> built-in floppy drives (8" half-height double-sided) replaced with a
> 15 Mbyte hard drive.  The CPU is an 8MHz 68000 that has a Z-80 CPU to
> handle I/O (in fact, the Z-80 can boot all by itself to run older
> software for the TRS-80 Model II or Model 12).  The normal operating
> system is Xenix.  Stock RAM is 512K or 1Mb.  I'll be putting up a
> bunch of info on the Tandy 2/12/16/6000 line when I finally get to
> have a web page stored on my local systems instead of the measily
> 10 Mb my ISP allocates -- a fast link a static IP address through the
> cable TV company is supposed to be available _sometime_ this quarter.
> When that happens, I also hope to provide a guest login to the Tandy
> Xenix system through a serial connection from my Linux box.  (Also
> the AT&T Unix PC and maybe even the Coco 3 running OS-9 Level II).
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 17:47:48 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
In-Reply-To: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909154610.18891A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
> Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
> it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
> data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
> thing).

There was at least one other SBC like this.  I have an Explorer 85 that
has room for two S-100 slots (mine has one S-100 connector soldered in).
And I believe my SD Z-80 Starter System SBC can also accomodate an S-100
board.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 17:57:26 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
In-Reply-To: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909175459.4717A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
> Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
> it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
> data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
> thing).

It's easy to imagine an Altair-KIM hyrid since one actually existed.  It
was called the KIMSAI -- an S-100 extension for the KIM by ThinkerToys. 

-- Doug



From cdrmool at interlog.com  Wed Sep  9 18:01:53 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909185917.16465C-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  I've
stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested I'll
get it scanned and uploaded. 



colan






From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Wed Sep  9 18:19:26 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
In-Reply-To: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 8, 98 08:48:59 pm
Message-ID: <199809092319.TAA24698@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
>     I was thinking about this the other night {it was a slow night :-)} --
> how does the DC option on the PDP-11 work (besides the obvious)? My 11/34
> has a DC light on the panel, but I know that my unit did not come with a
> battery backup unit.
> 
>     What was involved with the DC option? Was it a special PSU and
> batteries? Or was it a board and separate UPS?
> 
>     Just curious...
> 
> 

Working from distant DEC Field Service memory...

It was a wiring harness, batteries, a couple of jumpers on the 
backplane and a regulator.


Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:02:59 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092034.NAA02981@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Sep 9, 98 01:34:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtGV-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:04:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092052.NAA03329@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 9, 98 01:52:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtHc-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:45:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
In-Reply-To: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 8, 98 08:48:59 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtvN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Sep  9 19:05:47 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: FW: Your post on ebay
Message-ID: <000301bddc4e$c2fd9380$60afadce@5x86jk>


Hey guys anybody want to follow-up with this MacPlus offer
-----Original Message-----
From: mkreutz@brook.edu [mailto:mkreutz@brook.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 4:32 PM
To: jrkeys@concentric.net
Subject: Your post on ebay


Hi there,

I'm replying to your post on ebay.

I have an Apple Mac Plus computer purchased in 1988/89.  It's in
excellent condition!!!  I have all the software, the system 7 upgrade
and other goodies that came with it (plus a hard drive that was custom
built for it).  I also have an ImageWriter printer and unopened
ribbons.  If you are interested, please let me know and we can discuss
it further.  I think I may still have some of the original boxes.  I'd
like to find it a good home!!!  :)

Best regards,

Mica
(ebay ID is mek2)




<<<<Posted by jthecman (37)  on 09/09/98 at 14:14:54 PDT

Auctions

  Wanted: old or new computer demos used by the dealers to get your
attention as you walk into the store. Looking for any
  brand of computer starting back in 1956 to present For hand held
devices also like the apple newton palm pilot's. email me
  with your price private collector so my funds are limited. Also
looking for old computer toys from the 1950's to 1980's.>>>>>



From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Wed Sep  9 19:54:59 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b21bc02bcc6f@[207.220.32.195]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 8, 98 09:26:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809100054.RAA03631@fraser.sfu.ca>

Thanks!

Kevin

-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  9 20:13:19 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809100113.SAA27182@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>> There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!
>
>Nonsense!. A Fischertechnik robotics kit controlled by a calculator is 
>infinitely more fun :-) :-) :-)... And yes, I have done that.

Well that figures!  ;-)

What kind of calculator?  Something simple, or more like a TI-86 (which I 
consider a computer)?

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Sep  9 20:01:34 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Mac's for Sale
Message-ID: <000001bddc56$8de47620$65afadce@5x86jk>

Before I place these on eBay let me know if anyone wants them for 20.00 each
(my cost) asis not tested. I purchased 3 machines for someone and then they
cjhanged their mind and only took one of the three. one is IIvx with 230 meg
HD in it and the other is a IIcx with a ony 40meg HD in it, again these are
ASIS I have not tried to test them at all. I already have 2 vx's and 3 or 4
cx's in storage.



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 20:22:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>

I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
me wonder.  Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 20:48:05 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

	MICROSOFT BUYS TEX, PLANS NEW PRODUCTS

	STANFORD PROFESSOR REAPS WINDFALL

PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA, USA (CNEWS/MSNBC) --- In a major move into the
scientific publishing market, Microsoft Corporation announced today that it
has purchased all rights to the computer language and document compiler
known as TeX (pronounced, "tech"), and plans a major new product line based
on the 20-year-old software.

Stanford Professor Donald Knuth (pronounced, "kah-nooth"), the author of
the widely-used TeX software, in a joint press conference at the university
campus with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, acknowledged that the two had
been negotiating for some months. "I felt that two decades of TeX in the
public domain was enough. I am reasserting the copyright to my original work
in TeX.  Microsoft will carry the ball now, and I can get back to my
computer science research." Knuth acknowledged he was paid a "seven-figure
sum" from Microsoft, which he will use to finance his work on a project he
has code-named "Volume 4".

At the press conference, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said the acquisition
was "the kind of cooperation between academia and industry that builds
prosperity for both." He added that TeX would "finally give Microsoft a
foothold in mathematical desktop publishing" that has eluded the software
giant since its founding. Drawing gasps of surprise from the college
audience, Gates asserted that "TeX will soon be biggest jewel in the
Microsoft crown."

Apparently the jewel metaphor will include a hefty, unavoidable price tag
for future TeX users. Gates outlined plans whereby all existing TeX
compilers would be phased out, to be replaced by a new Microsoft master
implementation written in C++. Beta versions for public testing on Windows
95 and NT platforms are expected in late 1998, issuing from a new
205-programmer project laboratory at Microsoft's Redmond campus. Microsoft
TeX for other platforms, such as Unix workstations, will follow at an as-yet
unspecified date. According to Gates, "the master TeX from Microsoft will
ensure that the incompatibilities across platforms are once and for all
eliminated." TeX software is widely used due its portability, although
variations among operating systems have been troublesome due to
uncoordinated development.

Unlike the technical aspects of the project, Gates explained that pricing
for Microsoft TeX has already been firmly set. The single-user retail
product is expected to have a street price of about $600 and consist of
three CDs. When heckled by an graduate student complaining about a high
price for a formerly free product, Gates seemed startled, explaining that
a "student edition at $299 is likely" and that "Microsoft will use the
revenue to make TeX better."

Most current users of TeX have paid nothing for their implementations,
derived from Professor Knuth's formerly-free work. Before leaving the
podium, Gates made a final comment that "TeX hasn't changed in years. What
kind of a product can that be?", and then handed the microphone to an
assistant, introduced only as the project leader for Microsoft TeX.

The assistant displayed an overhead presentation using the current test
version of Microsoft TeX. Equations and tables could be seen dissolving into
each other in a morphing action between frames. "No one has ever done that
with TeX," Gates announced from an audience seat at one point. "It's the
kind of sizzle that can really enliven a dull paper at an academic
conference." Some onlookers were not convinced, especially when the program
crashed midway through the demonstration, resulting in a five-minute delay
while Windows 95 was restarted.  Microsoft technicians later blamed a
third-party display driver.

The impact on the large base of existing TeX users was unclear. During a
question-and-answer period, Gates said that the "TeX" trademark would be
registered as the exclusive property of Microsoft, and could not appear in
any competitive or free software. "We are granting of our own good will
until the 3rd quarter of 1998, free use to any existing TeX vendors or
public-domain authors. That's plenty of time for an orderly phase-out and
change-over to Microsoft TeX, or no TeX at all. After that, our legal
department will be contacting them."

A Microsoft attorney added that some of the project personnel would be
dedicated to searching the Internet to find non-Microsoft TeX software.
"Archives and collections of TeX-related programs will not be permitted.
The standards must be enforced, or they become meaningless. We are rescuing
a fine piece of work from being diluted into worthlessness. You would not
believe the number of programs that have been based on TeX without any
central, controlling authority. We will stop this infringement."

Some large organizations dependent on TeX were stunned by the announcment
and had not yet formed plans for dealing with the change. At the American
Mathematical Society, whose publications largely depend on TeX for
typesetting, editor Barbara Beeton was incensed. "I can't believe Don
[Professor Donald Knuth] sold us out like this. We should have never based
a publishing enterprise of this scope on so-called public-domain software.
What were we thinking?" Publication schedules for the rest of 1998 were on
hold, and journal editors scrambled to reassure their authors that deadlines
would not slip more than a few months.

Certain small businesses are also expected to feel the impact of the
Microsoft ownership of TeX. Palo Alto restaurant owner Wu Chen appeared
unhappy at the news, stating that "for ten year I print new menu every day
with TeX, now I will pay big time." He displayed a crumpled, grease-spotted
take-out flyer, and with tears in his eyes explained how multiple columns,
exotic typefaces, and daily price changes could all be printed by TeX in a
multi-lingual format. "In Wordperfect this would be a long journey."

Commercial vendors of TeX software stand to lose everything in the face of
the new Microsoft monopoly. While most derivatives of TeX were freely
published, several companies had made a business of publishing proprietary
versions. One anonymous source from a leading TeX firm said that "publishing
TeX was a gold mine while it lasted, and the Internet let us mine it deeper
and deeper. Now this is a cave-in right on our heads. TeX was a monumental
work of beauty and utility, freely given to the world by one of the finest
and most generous minds of the 20th century. Now it belongs to a lucky
dropout. We're finished."





From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  9 20:51:26 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Mac's for Sale
Message-ID: <030301bddc5d$86cea200$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

I'll take them. Are they complete? monitor and kbd? It doesn't make a
difference though.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Keys, Jr. <jrkeys@concentric.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 8:17 PM
Subject: Mac's for Sale


>Before I place these on eBay let me know if anyone wants them for 20.00
each
>(my cost) asis not tested. I purchased 3 machines for someone and then they
>cjhanged their mind and only took one of the three. one is IIvx with 230
meg
>HD in it and the other is a IIcx with a ony 40meg HD in it, again these are
>ASIS I have not tried to test them at all. I already have 2 vx's and 3 or 4
>cx's in storage.
>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 20:51:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909184806.5586A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
> hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
> to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
> original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
> me wonder.  Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
> you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
> wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".

Don't be afraid to strip away the shrink-wrap and use this thing.  Unless
you're planning on selling this at auction 20-30 years from now, I don't
think there's much sense in keeping it in this condition.  If you had,
say, 3 or 4 of them in shrinkwrap, or one loose card and 1 in shrinkwrap,
then sure, I'd keep it in shrinkwrap for show.  But if you've only got
one, open it up and use it.

And as you alluded to, there's no telling how many times the box you have
has been shrink-wrapped in the past for re-sale.  And if you want to
return it to its "pristine" condition, you can always re-shrinkwrap it
once you've had your fun with the card.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 20:59:25 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
behind this?


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Wed Sep  9 20:59:20 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
Message-ID: <bc707495.35f73278@aol.com>

In response to bill's final comment about, "what kind of product can that be?"
hmmm, perhaps a less buggy and workable product?

david


In a message dated 9/9/98 9:50:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yowza@yowza.com
writes:

<< Most current users of TeX have paid nothing for their implementations,
 derived from Professor Knuth's formerly-free work. Before leaving the
 podium, Gates made a final comment that "TeX hasn't changed in years. What
 kind of a product can that be?", and then handed the microphone to an
 assistant, introduced only as the project leader for Microsoft TeX. >>


From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep  9 21:23:41 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
Message-ID: <199809100223.AA02996@world.std.com>


< >     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for
< > Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks
< > it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display
< > data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such 
< > thing).
< 
< There was at least one other SBC like this.  I have an Explorer 85 that
< has room for two S-100 slots (mine has one S-100 connector soldered in)
< And I believe my SD Z-80 Starter System SBC can also accomodate an S-10
< board.

As someone with an actively used Netronics Explorer 8085, yes that one 
had two s100 slots and a 5 slot extender (level E) as well.

That class of machines was not uncommon.  There was a front pannel 
replacement with display and keypad (8080 too!) for s100 machines.

Allison



From kyrrin at jps.net  Wed Sep  9 21:08:42 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980909192739.kyrrin@jps.net>


On 10-Sep-98 Doug Yowza wrote:

>       MICROSOFT BUYS TEX, PLANS NEW PRODUCTS
>       STANFORD PROFESSOR REAPS WINDFALL

        <read with a weird mix of horror and disgust, then snipped>

        As I recall, at least one of our list members works at
Microsoft (Kai? Would that be you?)

        If so, perhaps they could comment on whether this wild story is
anywhere close to factual. Sam's right; it smells too much like
someone's idea of a -very- bad joke.
  
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 09-Sep-98 at 19:08:47, Pacific 
Web -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 21:37:13 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> behind this?

Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What do you
think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

-- Doug



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 22:21:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909184806.5586A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>

Don't worry Sam, this is one item that won't find it's way up to 
EBay.  I'm already in the process of going through it and looking at 
installing it in my Apple ///.  And yes, I have a shrink-wrap gun so if 
I wanted to make millions on EBay I can alway re-wrap it. :-)  It 
was just a small part of me didn't want to break the virgin seal.

Looking at the cover of the box it says,

"SOS
DOS
and
CP/M"

SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
own.

On 9 Sep 98, at 18:51, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Don't be afraid to strip away the shrink-wrap and use this thing.  Unless
> you're planning on selling this at auction 20-30 years from now, I don't
> think there's much sense in keeping it in this condition.  If you had,
> say, 3 or 4 of them in shrinkwrap, or one loose card and 1 in shrinkwrap,
> then sure, I'd keep it in shrinkwrap for show.  But if you've only got
> one, open it up and use it.
> 
> And as you alluded to, there's no telling how many times the box you have
> has been shrink-wrapped in the past for re-sale.  And if you want to
> return it to its "pristine" condition, you can always re-shrinkwrap it
> once you've had your fun with the card.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 22:28:07 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F74747.FAE8181B@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> behind this?

It's a joke, son.

Please note the smiley in the subject header.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep  9 22:48:11 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net>

Hello.

Please forgive me if I mess up on any model numbers or names here.  I'm not
all that familiar with Apple computers.

I'm looking for an old Apple // (?) - The small portable type.  I'm looking
for the older model with the 5.25" built-in disk drive (external p/s).  I'm
looking for the type with the LCD display.  If you have one without one,
let me know anyway.  I don't want to pay all that much for one (w/o LCD),
because they're fairly common (my school probably has about 20 on each
floor, but they don't want to get rid of any of them).

I need it to replace an old Franklin Ace 1200 that's a little too big for
the limited space that I have.  All I'm basically looking for is the main
computer.  I'm not looking for any manuals, disks, monitors (unless it's
LCD), or anything like that.  I'll I'm asking is that it works (I have a
monitor).

As for the Franklin, if anyone's interested in it, make me an offer
(+shipping).  It's an Apple ][+ compatible w/dual built-in 5.25" disk
drives, 80-column and 40-column card, joystick, Amdek 13" color composite
monitor, Original system disks, AppleWorks, and all the manuals.  The
computer works great, but it's just too big.  You can see what it looks
like at:

<http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/ace.htm>

It's not a very good picture, but it is the same unit that I have.  The
printer card, however has been switched in mine (I think), and was used
with a Star Gemini 10-X printer (until it died).  I'll also include the
printer cable (connects to Centronics -standard printer).  The version of
AppleWorks also takes care of the missing open and closed-apple keys.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  9 23:09:41 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 9, 98 11:48:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809100409.WAA20685@calico.litterbox.com>

You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a VERY rare
perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch diagonal 
green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 

You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics (www.allelec.com)
or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going for
around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.

The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:11:07 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909210602.17515A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> > behind this?
> 
> Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
> construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What do you
> think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

That's a reflief (I knew it was a joke but Bruce's description was good: a
strange mix of horror and shock).

I think Linus should sell out.  If Microsoft was stupid enough to think
they could reign in Linux after the source code has already been in more
hands than a stripper's breasts then more power to him.  This is why I
knew the TeX story was bogus.  There's no way they could possibly hope to
make fifty cents off of TeX because a thousand screaming programmers
world-wide would just make a compatible version, call it SeX, and crush
Microsoft's silly aspriations of TeX domination.

Also, that quote of the Chinese restaurant owner at the end was a dead
give away. :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:17:13 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> Don't worry Sam, this is one item that won't find it's way up to 
> EBay.  I'm already in the process of going through it and looking at 
> installing it in my Apple ///.  And yes, I have a shrink-wrap gun so if 
> I wanted to make millions on EBay I can alway re-wrap it. :-)  It 
> was just a small part of me didn't want to break the virgin seal.

I know exactly how you feel.  There's something special about a piece of
computer equipment that's stayed in its original, pristine state for 15
years.  I'm the same way, as are many other people for some strange
psychological reason.  But if I really want to use it, there's no sense in
depriving myself of it just because its in such a state. 

> SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
> and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
> emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
> own.

The Softcard came with additional RAM, so yes, they were probably
referring to the fact that you could access that extra bank of memory from
DOS 3.3 in Apple // emulation mode.

Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS. 
While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 
 
Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  9 23:22:13 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 9, 98 09:17:13 pm
Message-ID: <199809100422.WAA20824@calico.litterbox.com>

> Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
> before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS. 
> While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
> out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 
>  

but then they'd have had to develop an original OS instead of buying a 
CPM ripoff and messing it up.  Oops. :)

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:29:41 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211735.17515C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> I'm looking for an old Apple // (?) - The small portable type.  I'm looking

You're looking for the Apple //c.

> for the older model with the 5.25" built-in disk drive (external p/s).  I'm

The newer model with the internal P/S and 3.5" drive (and 3.3Mhz 65C02) is
the Apple //c+.

> looking for the type with the LCD display.  If you have one without one,

Good luck.  The LCD display was an external add-on that you could either
buy from Apple or third-parties that manufactered them.  They're still in
high demand believe it or not because Japanese LOVE Apple ]['s, still put
them to regular use, and pay premiums for the LCD display for the //c
(I've seen them go for $300 and up).  One lucky bastard on this list found
one at his local thrift shop for $4.98 (you know who you are!)  I haven't
seen one go for less than $250 on the online auctions, and that's when
they come up, which is not very often.

> let me know anyway.  I don't want to pay all that much for one (w/o LCD),
> because they're fairly common (my school probably has about 20 on each
> floor, but they don't want to get rid of any of them).

You can find these (at least around here) occasionally in thrift shops and
at flea markets (I just saw one last Sunday complete with external disk
drive and the tiny 8" monitor in excellent condition).  They're not too
difficult to find.  If you want a good deal, shop the usenet newsgroup
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  In fact I just went over there and found
several people selling //c's (including one of the list members here) and
will be forwarding them to you.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 01:15:06 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>



  sleeeping.....sleeeping... sleeping in a Jar 
       (the Jar is under the bed)

  [sorry...  had a Zappa flashback just then. Please disregard.]

  Ahem.  

  Encouraged by the success of my more recent uVAX resurrection, I 
this evening powered up another one I have had for some time. It 
doesn't do much. So I have some questions re: uVAX autism.

  First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on 
the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and 
the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have 
been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

  The VMS manual that I have (Thank you Bruce L. !!) seems to 
correspond with the sofware as extant on GoodMachine.

  DeadMachine is configured (externally) just the same as GM, ie. 
all the switches and controls are at the same settings. I am using a 
Decwriter III as the console, to have hardcopy.

  Upon power-up, the LED display on the back shows 'A'. The fixed 
disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 
Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
have let it go for 10 minutes....  

  I have checked the power supply voltages.. all nominal. I have 
power-cycled the unit a few times..  same behavior. I have re-seated 
the CPU and MEM cards..  no change.

  In the absense of the System User Guides / Operating Manual / 
Processor Handbooks..  I am stuck here. I remember a thread on the 
disk drive's spin up/down routine, but I forgot the cause.

  I will gladly pay for some more docs for these machines..  any 
spare MicroVax Orange Notebooks out there??

  Thanks in advance for any Info...


  Cheers

John


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep 10 04:49:41 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809100732.JAA09890@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
> hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
> to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
> original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
> me wonder.

Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
(especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
Try to get a second one.

> Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
> you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
> wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".

Yes, or at least there are some hints. First, the type
of platic film is changing constantly (but you need a bit
experiance, since not only the material is different over
time, also for example, at the same time, companies in
Europe liked different material than those in the US).
Second the aging is visible thru the consistence. While
the years it gets harder and harder. Even if you get the
same material as uses when original, it takes some years
to get the softener out. And third: In a lot of cases
there are stickers on top. If you rewarp the card you
loose them. And most visible, forth: if you juse it
there will be dust on the card and traces on the books.

I always try to keep original packt items as they are,
althru I have some early singleboarders (i.e. 6800),
where I have to fight myself every time I see them :)

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep 10 04:54:36 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809100737.JAA09235@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> Date:          Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:04:13 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: robots?

> > There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!
> 
> Nonsense!. A Fischertechnik robotics kit controlled by a calculator is 
> infinitely more fun :-) :-) :-)... And yes, I have done that.

So, what ? Isn't there a logo for your calculator ?
Just one more step of fun!

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From kyrrin at jps.net  Thu Sep 10 08:27:52 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980910063153.kyrrin@jps.net>

On 10-Sep-98 Doug Yowza wrote:

>On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation
>is
>> behind this?
>
>Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You
>can construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What
>do you think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

        More than Micro$quat's ready to give, that's for bloody sure!

        Geez... I noticed the smiley, but I thought it was some bizarre
positive reaction to what would be horrible news. I will admit I was
taken in at first. After I got halfway through a reply laden with more
MS flames than I usually produce in a year, I started to consider the
possibility that it was somebody's idea of a joke.

        <g> Well, heck... given the shock value, and the apparent
writing quality, I would wager that it'll qualify for Urban Legend
status in due course.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 10-Sep-98 at 06:27:55, Pacific
Web -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 08:41:16 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>


<   First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on 
< the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and 
< the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have 
< been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

Similar save for VAXstation was the marketing thing for a workstation 
configuration and Microvax generally meant terminals for IO unless there 
was a /GPX or /SPX then it was a workstation.  Confused... so was 
marketing.

<   Upon power-up, the LED display on the back shows 'A'. The fixed 
< disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 

The RD53 has a problem, there is internally a rubber bumper and the head 
is stuck to it!  Common problem on the Micropolus 1325s.  The fix, open it 
HDA, unlatch the head lock and force the arm to move then apply power and 
close. recover data and dispose or if you nuts like me do surgery to 
remove the peice of gum that used to be rubber and button it up and use it 
a few more years.

< Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
< printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
< have let it go for 10 minutes....  

I think it's waiting for a terminal.

Allison




From gentry at zk3.dec.com  Thu Sep 10 09:07:02 1998
From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
Message-ID: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>

Recently, there was a flurry of messages regarding a license
found in the RT-11 V4 tar-ball on gatekeeper.dec.com.  The
license appeared to be one which conveyed rights for hobbyist
users of pdp-11 software from Mentec.

After consulting with Mentec and Bob Supnik (praised be he
for negotiating the deal), and after combing my archives for
a copy of the binary distribution of RT V5.3 (which I
provided to Bob Supnik for him to package up with the license),

I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
distribution kit available on:

ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z

I'm sure that there is work being done on obtaining distribution
copies of other license-covered software.  Watch this space for
further notices about software.

For the sake of good will between Mentec and hobbyists, please
DO NOT start making copies of RT or any other pdp-11 software
available from other locations without it first coming from
gatekeeper.  Also, please read and abide by the terms of the
license.

                                        Megan Gentry
                                        Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg@world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    |                                     |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   | 
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 10 09:26:44 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne
 t>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>

At 09:37 PM 9/9/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
>Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
>construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  

I recently saw a web site with dozens of fake press releases like this
one about TeX.  Some were funny, many were not.  I forget where it was, 
and my bookmarks aren't telling.

>What do you think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

Sell out?  To me, the more interesting prospect is that there's no
reason to buy him out, or anyone else out.  For that matter, he may
have already sold out; see below.

I've been cultivating a pet theory lately regarding the assimilation 
of Linux by Microsoft.

I believe it would be possible to refine a layer of compatibility
into WinNT that would allow more and more Linux software to be
recompiled to run under WinNT as-is (or someday, even running the
executables directly.)

I like tossing this idea on the table at programmer lunches just 
to see the reactions it provokes.  Because of the freeware nature 
of Linux, as long as Microsoft abides by the rules of releasing
the *relevant* source code, they'd be free to assimilate as many
freeware tools as they like.  Today they'll ship you a service pack CD
for $9.95; tomorrow they might ship a $9.95 Linux compatibility CD,
or even give it away as a promotion.

The average Linux-head has a hypocritical hatred of Microsoft 
when considered in the light of their devotion to portable, 
run-everywhere source code.  Why shouldn't Linux freeware run 
under NT, too?

Of course, Linux is many different components.  The bulk of it, 
as Richard Stallman tries hard to remind us, is based on GNU tools.
Linus made the kernel, and hordes of programmers have refined
the drivers and many other parts.

For a while, there's been a project to make a Unix compatibility
layer for GNU tools, at <http://www.cygnus.com/misc/gnu-win32/>.
Steve Chamberlain <sac@transmeta.com> was the original author of 
this CygWin32 software.  Note the e-mail address - Transmeta, 
Silicon Valley's mystery company of the moment.  Oh, that's 
where Linus works now, too.  Speculation about Transmeta includes 
the development of graphics chips and emulator chips that mimic 
various CPUs and OSes.

When I present this possibility to Linux-heads, their first reaction is 
a fearful "But why would Microsoft want to do that?"  I respond, 
"To run all that great Linux application software," a double-whammy 
that underscores the lack of anything truly comparable to 
Microsoft Office in the Linux market.  To ask why Microsoft would
assimilate Linux forces one to consider which Linux apps are most
useful to anyone but the most nerdy.

Do we really need to reproduce the kernel?  WinNT already has a 
microkernel architecture that, in theory, allows different OSes
to be placed on top - that's how Win32, OS/2, POSIX and DOS/Win16
live there.  See <http://www.sysinternals.com/ntdll.htm> 
and other pages there for a nice discussion of this.  

Implement a layer of HAL that talks to Unix-style device drivers, add 
an X Window server to the top layers, expand the present POSIX support, 
enhance the GNU Win32 effort, make a more Unix-like shell, and presto,
Microsoft assimilates a great deal of Linux.  All the Linux programmers
are working for Microsoft, unless they explicitly do something to
prevent it.

Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already 
Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:
<http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2134010,00.ht
ml>

Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
<http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
and automagically start the right emulator.

- John



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 09:44:29 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>

On 9 Sep 98, at 21:17, Sam Ismail wrote:

> I know exactly how you feel.  There's something special about a piece of
> computer equipment that's stayed in its original, pristine state for 15
> years.  I'm the same way, as are many other people for some strange
> psychological reason.  But if I really want to use it, there's no sense in
> depriving myself of it just because its in such a state. 

Exactly.  And after I overcame the small urge to leave it wrapped, 
what do I find?  The disks and each of the manuals are individually 
wrapped as well!  Arg! Now I have to fight the urge again, though 
not as strong this time.

Everything was there, including the registration card from Microsoft 
and the warranty registration from Apple.  I'd love to fill those out 
and send them in. :-)

> Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
> before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS.
> While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
> out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 

They did try that, along with IBM.  It was called OS/2.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 10 09:49:05 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910104233.9784D-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Exactly.  And after I overcame the small urge to leave it wrapped, 
> what do I find?  The disks and each of the manuals are individually 
> wrapped as well!  Arg! Now I have to fight the urge again, though 
> not as strong this time.

In general, it is not a good idea to leave stuff in its original wrappers
without any inspections. Often, the goodies inside will suffer from
degrading wrappings (yucky plastic, trapped moisture, etc.) and we never
know about it. Remember, the wrappings probably were designed to last
only a year or two. If you get something in the original wrapper, please
open it carefully and see whats inside! You just might save it!

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 09:53:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100732.JAA09890@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 9:50, Hans Franke wrote:

> Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
> (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
> Try to get a second one.

To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

> to get the softener out. And third: In a lot of cases
> there are stickers on top. If you rewarp the card you
> loose them. And most visible, forth: if you juse it
> there will be dust on the card and traces on the books.

Problem here is you may not know what stickers were there to 
begin with so you wouldn't know if they were missing.  And with the 
last one, you would have to remove the wrap to check for dust on 
the card or traces on the books.  If you don't break the wrap and 
open the box, you can't check for dust.

> I always try to keep original packt items as they are,
> althru I have some early singleboarders (i.e. 6800),
> where I have to fight myself every time I see them :)

I'd lose that fight.  I don't have anything with a 6800 on it and would 
love to play with one.  Those suckers would be in use right now if 
they were around my place.  I do try and keep the original packing 
materials around, ie. boxes and what not when I have them.



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 10:03:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910104233.9784D-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101359.IAA03212@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 10:49, William Donzelli wrote:

> In general, it is not a good idea to leave stuff in its original wrappers
> without any inspections. Often, the goodies inside will suffer from
> degrading wrappings (yucky plastic, trapped moisture, etc.) and we never
> know about it. Remember, the wrappings probably were designed to last only
> a year or two. If you get something in the original wrapper, please open
> it carefully and see whats inside! You just might save it!

That's a good point.  In my case I was going to open it anyway and 
you'll be glad to know everything was there is in fantastic shape.  I 
didn't have time last night to do more than open it up and start 
looking through the manuals.  Hope to have time tonight to install it 
and fire it up.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 10 10:04:20 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101359.IAA03212@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910110212.9784F-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> That's a good point.  In my case I was going to open it anyway and 
> you'll be glad to know everything was there is in fantastic shape.  I 
> didn't have time last night to do more than open it up and start 
> looking through the manuals.  Hope to have time tonight to install it 
> and fire it up.

I have opened too many things (mostly radio, however) from their original
boxes, only to find plastic that has shrunk, nests of insects, and
corrosion. Maybe some of the thing would be pristine if they were opened
just a few years before.

I tend to open the wrappings up very carefully, with a razor, in such a
away that it does dot create a mess.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From gooi at oce.nl  Thu Sep 10 00:21:37 1998
From: gooi at oce.nl (Henk Gooijen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Help needed with PDP-11/35 and XXDP problem
Message-ID: <1B5E745673@fs-nw-itc3.oce.nl>

Hello readers.

I have two questions which are in a sense related.
I have a problem with my PDP-11/35 and withn XXDP+.

When I boot my 11/35 it reports RT11-SJ (S) V04.00E. This version
runs perfectly. When I try to boot RT11-FB V5.4 the VIRTUAL LED on
the console goes on and at that moment the system hangs.
I did check all the required jumper changes on the other CPU boards
but the memory management unit M7238 was already installed in the
system and the jumpers all seem to be correctly set.
Anyway, when I boot that RT11-FB version on my PDP-11/34 it runs
just fine. Needless to say that both are _real_ machines.
When that RT11 version is booted on the 11/35 the ADDRESS LEDs show
076602 and the DATA LEDs show 177620. The MMU occupies address range
777600-777676. Is this a coincidence ?

Last week I got the RL02 drives connected to the 11/35. I have a
pack with XXDP+ on it and I hoped to run the diagnostics for the
CPU and the MMU. When I have XXDP+ booted (that goes well) and enter
the command "R BKTGD1.BIC" the READY light and on the 11/35 the ADDR
and DATA LEDs blink a few seconds but then the system hangs.
ADDR LEDs show 001156, DATA shows 000767. On the console terminal is
the text "KT11-D EXERCISER DBKTG-D".

Does anybody have any clues on how to proceed?
How do I use XXDP, any manual anywhere ?

TIA,
Henk Gooijen
gooi@oce.nl



From thomas100 at home.com  Thu Sep 10 11:30:27 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne
Message-ID: <199809101628.IAA00848@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

Well, Microsoft has been in the Unix camp before, with Xenix and  
SCO.  [Witness my Trs-80 Mod 16 runs it].

But speculation aside, Apple is the one gobbling up both Unix and  
[Windows application functionality] into their new OS.  That's scary  
in a very comfortable way.  The old NeXT underpinnings with Linux  
innovation, etc. is turning out to be ultra-powerful!

Thomas


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 11:40:08 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>

Hi there. My name is Jason Simpson. I'm a 25 year old Seattle-based geek
that likes to scrounge around thrift stores looking for cool old
technology. I've been collecting this stuff since I was 16. I've owned some
of it since I was 13.

Here's a brief summary of some of the things I own:

Tandy Model 16 (dual 8" drives. I'd really like to run CP/M on this!)
Tandy Model 4P (with flakey and ENORMOUS 5 meg harddisk)
Tandy Model 100 (x2, one is broken)
Tandy Micro Color Computer MC-10 (x2)
Tandy Color Computer 3 (x3 or 4, at least one is broken, couple of disk
drives)
Tandy Pocket Computer (PC-1? broken/bad battery)
Tandy PC-3 pocket computer (plus printer)
Tandy PC-6 pocket computer
Texas Instruments TI-74 BasiCalc pocket computer
Casio FX-702P pocket computer (plus printer and cassette interface)
Hewlett Packard 75C (broken/bad battery)
DEC VT102 terminal
DEC VT220 terminal
Wyse 60 terminal
Commodore 128 (broken, and my fault at that -- blown SID)
Commodore 128D
Amiga 500 (broken)
Amiga 2000 (with harddisk)
Amiga 3000
Apple IIc (x2)
Apple IIgs (x2)
Laser 128 (Apple IIc clone)
Macintosh Plus
Outbound Systems notebook (portable '030 Mac clone w/ Plus ROMs, won't recharge)
Timex Sinclair 2068 (screwy but usuable video. For some reason, I find this one
especially captivating even though I have no software or peripherals for it)

There's more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

In general, last time I looked, these all work unless mentioned otherwise.
Of course, I'd like to fix or replace the broken items.

Some things I'd like to find:

Model 16 stuff:
        CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
        Harddisk **
        Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)

Color Computer stuff:
        OS/9 disks **
        RAM expansion
		Multicartridge adapter
        Accelerator

Commodore 64/128 stuff:
        REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
        Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)
        Accelerator
        Serial accelerator
        SuperSnapshot 5 cartridge **
        Harddisk

Apple II(gs) stuff:
        IIgs accelerator
        SCSI card **
		Apple IIc+ (I've only seen one of these once)

Amiga stuff:
        Amiga 1200 **
        Accelerator

** I really want these. :)

I also collect video game systems. Of these, some of the ones I'm most
interested in find more stuff for are: Atari 7800(/2600), Atari 5200, Sega
Master System, Commodore CD32, 3DO, NES.

I'm currently playing with the C= 128D. Dug out my old 1581 disk drive and
some disks. Whoo that's a fun machine, but I need a fastloader cartridge. :)

        -jrs

_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 12:03:07 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> I believe it would be possible to refine a layer of compatibility
> into WinNT that would allow more and more Linux software to be
> recompiled to run under WinNT as-is (or someday, even running the
> executables directly.)
> 
> I like tossing this idea on the table at programmer lunches just 
> to see the reactions it provokes.  Because of the freeware nature 
> of Linux, as long as Microsoft abides by the rules of releasing
> the *relevant* source code, they'd be free to assimilate as many
> freeware tools as they like.  Today they'll ship you a service pack CD
> for $9.95; tomorrow they might ship a $9.95 Linux compatibility CD,
> or even give it away as a promotion.

But why?  The whole point of using Linux instead of something like NT is
that it doesn't blow.

> The average Linux-head has a hypocritical hatred of Microsoft 
> when considered in the light of their devotion to portable, 
> run-everywhere source code.  Why shouldn't Linux freeware run 
> under NT, too?

Because it would probably crash all the time.

> "To run all that great Linux application software," a double-whammy 
> that underscores the lack of anything truly comparable to 
> Microsoft Office in the Linux market.  To ask why Microsoft would
> assimilate Linux forces one to consider which Linux apps are most
> useful to anyone but the most nerdy.

You obviously haven't perused the catalogs of Linux productivity software
lately, have you?

> Implement a layer of HAL that talks to Unix-style device drivers, add 
> an X Window server to the top layers, expand the present POSIX support, 
> enhance the GNU Win32 effort, make a more Unix-like shell, and presto,
> Microsoft assimilates a great deal of Linux.  All the Linux programmers
> are working for Microsoft, unless they explicitly do something to
> prevent it.

If this happens then great!  It might make NT worthy of the term
"Operating System".  But the fact is you'd have NT masquerading as Linux,
and if you're going to go through all the trouble of paying a bundle of
money for a half-assed Linux, what's the point?  Just buy a $39.95 CD
distribution of Linux and get ALL the power of Linux.

> Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already 
> Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:

I think what ever scheme they're concocting will ultimately fail, or in
the very least, it won't affect the rising tide of Linux.  It's just too
late.  This is no browser war.

> Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

A much more productive end goal.  Port the software over to the good OS,
not the other way around.

> As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
> WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
> to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
> and automagically start the right emulator.

I think the better solution is to have someone write such an interface in
Linux (someone probably already has) but your feeble attempt to make this
seem topical has failed :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 12:07:52 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910100548.28840C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 10 Sep 98, at 9:50, Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
> > (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
> > Try to get a second one.

Who stole your Apple ///?  And under what circumstances??

> To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
> leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
> would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
> to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
> That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
> what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
> something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
the pawn shop :)


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gene at ehrich.com  Thu Sep 10 12:25:20 1998
From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <199809101718.KAA27674@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

>I also collect video game systems. Of these, some of the ones I'm most
>interested in find more stuff for are: Atari 7800(/2600), Atari 5200, Sega
>Master System, Commodore CD32, 3DO, NES.
>

  Jason, I do have some items on my web site that might meet your needs.
  Particularly the NES items but lots more there also.

  Gene

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
gene@ehrich.com
Gene Ehrich   P.O. Box 209   Marlton NJ   08053-0209
------------------------------------------------------ 


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Sep 10 12:31:39 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com>

Jason Simpson wrote:

> Some things I'd like to find:
> 
> Model 16 stuff:
>         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **

Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.

>         Harddisk **

You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.

>         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)

The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines -- 
it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
TRS-DOS.

> Color Computer stuff:
>         OS/9 disks **
>         RAM expansion
>                 Multicartridge adapter
>         Accelerator

Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
disassembly required.

In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I 
found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
much).

What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
<http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Sep 10 12:46:12 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F81064.96B6A81F@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> > Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already
> > Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:
> 
> I think what ever scheme they're concocting will ultimately fail, or in
> the very least, it won't affect the rising tide of Linux.  It's just too
> late.  This is no browser war.
> 
> > Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> > <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.
> 
> A much more productive end goal.  Port the software over to the good OS,
> not the other way around.
> 
> > As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
> > WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
> > to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
> > and automagically start the right emulator.
> 
> I think the better solution is to have someone write such an interface in
> Linux (someone probably already has) but your feeble attempt to make this
> seem topical has failed :)

Indeed.  All of the emulators that run under MS-DOS seem to run just
peachy using dosemu (though my dosemu boots DR-DOS, not MS-DOS), and
the couple of emulators that run under Windows that I've tried did
just fine under Caldera's WABI.  I haven't tried Freedows, and so
far my luck with Wine has been sketchy.  I haven't tried making the
emulators run by clicking on a filename, in large part due to the
confusion caused by similar extensions to filenames for executables
for different OSs and processors, and in medium part because I'm not
a graphically oriented user.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 13:21:40 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com> <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>

Thanks for the reply. Sure helps me narrow my search a bit.

That Tandy 6000HD mentioned a day or two ago on the list sounds mighty interesting!

	-jrs


Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> Jason Simpson wrote:
> 
> > Some things I'd like to find:
> >
> > Model 16 stuff:
> >         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
> 
> Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.
> 
> >         Harddisk **
> 
> You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
> the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
> adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.
> 
> >         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)
> 
> The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
> mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines --
> it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
> there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
> TRS-DOS.
> 
> > Color Computer stuff:
> >         OS/9 disks **
> >         RAM expansion
> >                 Multicartridge adapter
> >         Accelerator
> 
> Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
> newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
> thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
> chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
> inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
> disassembly required.
> 
> In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
> expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
> might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
> but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
> Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
> Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I
> found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
> this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
> much).
> 
> What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
> is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
> haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
> a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
> good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
> <http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
> Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
> --
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 13:49:02 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910100548.28840C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 10:07, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
> computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
> the pawn shop :)

Ha! Fooled those thieves, I don't even have an Altair. :-)
But I wish I did. *sob*

Actually, I'd like to find any S-100 systems.  The only one I've 
picked up so far is my North Star Horizon.  I was thinking of 
building my own S-100 expansion for my Exidy Sorcerer though, I 
think I just about have everything I need to attempt it.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 14:18:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> Actually, I'd like to find any S-100 systems.  The only one I've 
> picked up so far is my North Star Horizon.  I was thinking of 
> building my own S-100 expansion for my Exidy Sorcerer though, I 
> think I just about have everything I need to attempt it.

You needn't worry about looking any further.  The Horizon is a classic in
its own right, and a right solid S-100 machine at that.  Just ask Allison,
the staunchest N* supporter on the planet.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 14:27:09 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com>

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From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 14:32:08 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909185917.16465C-100000@shell1.interlog.com> from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Sep 9, 98 07:01:53 pm
Message-ID: <199809101932.MAA10122@loomcom.com>

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From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 14:49:59 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lego robots (was Re: "Allow myself to introduce... myself.")
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com> <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com> <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>
Message-ID: <35F82CF8.F24FD5C@xio.com>

Whoops! I apologize for the accidental public message and extra quoting in my
response to Ward Griffiths.

But anyway, since I've already started this message, let me point those of you
interested in robotics to http://www.legomindstorms.com/ in case you hadn't
seen it already. It's a Lego kit that comes with a microcontroller, infra-red
link, and CD-ROM with programming software for around $200. I want.

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 14:54:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101850.NAA03763@trailingedge.com>



On 10 Sep 98, at 12:18, Sam Ismail wrote:

> You needn't worry about looking any further.  The Horizon is a classic in
> its own right, and a right solid S-100 machine at that.  Just ask Allison,
> the staunchest N* supporter on the planet.

And I would agree with her.  I really like the N* even though I 
haven't had much time to play with it yet.  And all for only $4 from a 
thrift who said it was just a big disk drive unit.  N*DOS doesn't sit 
to well with me though.  Never cared much for a continuous block 
OS. That was the one thing I didn't care for on my UCSD p-system. 
 But I also have CP/M for the N* and that's fine.

Still, I'd like some other S-100 systems, such as a Cromemco.  
Sure, I'd take an Altair or IMSAI if I could get one for less than 
EBay but I'm more interested in other S-100s.  A SOL would be 
good too.  Got to get that box together for my Socerer.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 10 14:56:10 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <19980910195611.21546.qmail@hotmail.com>

Why was the LCD so rare, anyway?
It seems that with a battery, this could be a real laptop.
How much did the LCD cost then?


>
>You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a 
VERY rare
>perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch 
diagonal 
>green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 
>
>You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics 
(www.allelec.com)
>or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going 
for
>around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.
>
>The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
>less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
>-- 
>Jim Strickland
>jim@calico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 15:24:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <19980910195611.21546.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910132318.13768A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> Why was the LCD so rare, anyway?

Not many were produced as demand was low due to high price.

> It seems that with a battery, this could be a real laptop.

That was the intent.  Optional external batteries were available in its
day to make it fully portable.

> How much did the LCD cost then?

$A lot.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From djenner at halcyon.com  Thu Sep 10 15:26:16 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <35F81064.96B6A81F@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <35F835E8.2AFEA5A3@halcyon.com>



From pgrammen at sonic.net  Thu Sep 10 16:11:04 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980910141104.0085b100@pop.sonic.net>

At 12:27 PM 9/10/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hi folks,
>
>I'm having some problems with a floppy drive in a newly aquired Apple
>Lisa, and I'm hoping someone here will have some repair tips.
>When I first powered up the system, the floppy drive seemed to be
>working fine.  I booted the system into MacWorks+ off of one of the
>ProFile drives, and was able to format, read, and write floppies with
>no problems.  However, a few hours later, the floppy drive started
>making horrible "CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK ..." noises, resulting in
>a wave of panic and fear :)
>
>I investigated, taking off the front cover of the Lisa to get a closer
>look at what was going on.  It appears that the head assembly, which
>is moved back and forth by a spiral cam shaft, was all the way in the
>back-most position -- but for some reason, the drive didn't know it
>was all they way back, and the cam shaft kept turning, trying to push
>the head assembly back further.  The "CLICK CLICK CLICK" was coming
>from the spiral cam shaft clicking the little driver arm on the head
>assembly as it spun around.
>

Hard to say for sure, but there is a sensor on the right side (viewed from
the front) that detects when the head gets to the end of its travel. Could
it be dirty? I think it uses LEDs and photo sensor to detect a plastic
piece passing between the emitter and sensor. I've seen behavior such as
you describe when solvent gets on the sensor. The most common problem with
this drive (assuming it is the same 400K drive used with the 128K and 500K
Macs) is that the grease turns to glue with age, gumming the eject
mechanism. Sounds like that is OK. Was it cleaned recently? If so, it may
just be solvent in the area of that sensor. I thought I'd ruined a couple
of drives in cleaning them, but after sitting for a while they stopped that
"click click click" you mentioned. If it is the same drive as the Mac
drives, you should be able to pick up a replacement for a dollar or two,
worst case. Good luck with it!
-Paul





From jhfine at idirect.com  Thu Sep 10 16:12:07 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <35F840A6.9F59DABC@idirect.com>

>Megan Gentry wrote:

> After consulting with Mentec and Bob Supnik (praised be he
> for negotiating the deal), and after combing my archives for
> a copy of the binary distribution of RT V5.3 (which I
> provided to Bob Supnik for him to package up with the license),

Jerome Fine replies:

Bravo!  Considering how fast other things have happened in the
past, you seem to have accomplished the job in record time.

> I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
> by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
> distribution kit available on:
>
> ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z
>
> I'm sure that there is work being done on obtaining distribution
> copies of other license-covered software.  Watch this space for
> further notices about software.
>
> For the sake of good will between Mentec and hobbyists, please
> DO NOT start making copies of RT or any other pdp-11 software
> available from other locations without it first coming from
> gatekeeper.  Also, please read and abide by the terms of the
> license.

Are there any things you would recommend that this groups would
want to be aware of?  Any Y2K issues that you feel are important?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict
Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications
(Sources not always required)



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 12:56:32 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909210602.17515A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 9, 98 09:11:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHAxP-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 12:49:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809100113.SAA27182@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 9, 98 06:13:19 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHAqR-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep 10 16:58:27 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <35F835E8.2AFEA5A3@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980910164757.22153E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David C. Jenner wrote:

> From the start, NT has had a POSIX layer meant to allow POSIX-compliant
> software to run under NT.  There has been a product, OpenNT, that
> refines this layer and adds utilities, an SDK, and X Window capabilities
> (clients and server) to NT.  You can telnet into an NT system and run
> command-line applications.  Any GNU-based application that conforms to
> POSIX can be ported.  The product is now called INTERIX.  See:
> http://www.interix.com

And from the guys that orignally wrote the POSIX layer for Microsoft,
there's a product call NuTCracker that does the same thing:
	http://www.datafocus.com/

This is not something you would want to use unless you had to.  There are
several UNIX things that don't map well to the NT microkernel, including
fork/exec, signals, and the nice UNIX unified I/O model.  Basically, NT is
a dog, and UNIX on top of NT is a mangey mutt. 

-- Doug



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 17:25:46 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne t>
Message-ID: <199809102121.QAA04087@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 9:26, John Foust wrote:

> Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

Freedows isn't trying to run Windows apps under Linux.  They are 
building a whole new OS with the idea of being able to run apps 
from several different operating systems at the same time.  The 
last plan I heard from them was to start with an OS that could run 
Windows and DOS apps and then add Linux and Mac apps in the 
next release.  Keeping this on-topic, they also plan to handle apps 
from classic systems naming the C64 and Coco as planned 
systems.  This is something I've wanted since working on IBM 
mainframes in the late 70s.  I've wanted a VM style setup where I 
could run different OSs on "virtual machines" on the same box.  
Over the years that's evolved into an OS which would just be able 
to handle seamless apps from several different systems.  Ok, I can 
dream.  Freedows, if they can pull it off, might actually do just that. 
I'd like to work on some application kernels (as they call them) for 
some of my classic systems.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 17:22:28 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
References: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com> <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <19980910222228.12478.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com> wrote:
> SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
> and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
> emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
> own.

The Apple /// dealer diagnostic disk contains a version of Apple DOS 3.3
modified to boot directly (w/o emulation mode) on an Apple ///.  I've
been meaning to study the changes sometime, but haven't gotten around to
it.

Aside from the boot sequence, the only changes that would be absolutely
required would be some code to load the character generator.

Eric



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Sep 10 17:46:13 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Paul Grammens wrote:
If it is the same drive as the Mac
drives, you should be able to pick up a replacement for a dollar or two,
worst case.
--- end of quote ---

As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, whereas the Mac version does not.

-- MB


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Sep 10 17:55:07 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
What you need is a cable with the tips of the plugs connected to pins 5 
and 3 (and the sleeves to pin 2). That's actually a very common audio 
cable - I would think RatShack would have one.
--- end of quote ---

They didn't, so I made one to match your description here. It checks out fine with the multimeter, but I still get video with no audio. Leads me to believe there's a problem with the VIC itself.

Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the C64 for as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the video cable (the one that splits into three RCA's, one for video and two for sound) with the video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice, sharp, black and white display, no color. If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get (cruddy) color. I've checked every setting I can find on the TV for color/B&W stuff, but everything looks right. ???

Thanks again for the help.

-- MB


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Sep 10 18:48:14 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
 <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980910184814.591f9a48@intellistar.net>

Jason,

  Let me know if you get the 6000HD.  I have two of them.

  Joe


At 11:21 AM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for the reply. Sure helps me narrow my search a bit.
>
>That Tandy 6000HD mentioned a day or two ago on the list sounds mighty
interesting!
>
>	-jrs
>
>
>Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
>> 
>> Jason Simpson wrote:
>> 
>> > Some things I'd like to find:
>> >
>> > Model 16 stuff:
>> >         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
>> 
>> Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.
>> 
>> >         Harddisk **
>> 
>> You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
>> the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
>> adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.
>> 
>> >         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)
>> 
>> The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
>> mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines --
>> it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
>> there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
>> TRS-DOS.
>> 
>> > Color Computer stuff:
>> >         OS/9 disks **
>> >         RAM expansion
>> >                 Multicartridge adapter
>> >         Accelerator
>> 
>> Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
>> newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
>> thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
>> chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
>> inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
>> disassembly required.
>> 
>> In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
>> expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
>> might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
>> but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
>> Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
>> Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I
>> found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
>> this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
>> much).
>> 
>> What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
>> is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
>> haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
>> a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
>> good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
>> <http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
>> Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
>> --
>> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
>> 
>> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
>> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon
>



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 18:08:22 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <19980910222228.12478.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
Message-ID: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 22:22, Eric Smith wrote:

> The Apple /// dealer diagnostic disk contains a version of Apple DOS 3.3
> modified to boot directly (w/o emulation mode) on an Apple ///.  I've been
> meaning to study the changes sometime, but haven't gotten around to it.
> 
> Aside from the boot sequence, the only changes that would be absolutely
> required would be some code to load the character generator.

Hmm, that would be interesting.  I'll have to look for one of those.  
I've seen patches for DOS 3.3 to work with 3.5" floppies on a // but 
haven't seen anything for it on a /// before now.  If you ever get 
around to checking out the changes tell us about it.  I once hacked 
an Apple // OS called Apex which was only out on 13 sector format 
at the time to work with the 16 sector format when it came out.  
That was fun.



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 17:10:25 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <199809102306.TAA24647@gate.usaor.net>

If no one has the LCD, I have a color/mono (switchable) Magnavox
Professional CGA/composite (switchable) monitor with built-in sound that I
can use.  Does anyone have the pinouts for the LCD?  I have an old CGA LCD
that I may be able to use to make my own (maybe).

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: Apple // (I think)
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 12:09 AM
> 
> You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a VERY
rare
> perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch diagonal 
> green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 
> 
> You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics
(www.allelec.com)
> or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going for
> around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.
> 
> The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
> less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 18:08:38 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <199809102315.TAA26385@gate.usaor.net>

Try taking the output of the VIC through the inputs of a VCR.  I'm not sure
about this, but if I remember the monitor that was with my C64, there were
two audio, and two video jacks, or a special cable that would combine
everything into one plug.  There was also another cable that would allow
the computer to connect to a TV (had a converter and Audio/Video in one RCA
jack, like a Nintendo).  However, I no longer have the computer, so I can't
be sure, but I do remember the four RCA jacks and the single multi-plug on
the back of the monitor.  There was also a switch to change from 60-75Hz (I
think).  The monitor would NOT work with a standard composite computer,
such as an apple.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Marion Bates <Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: VIC-20 -- no sound
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 6:55 PM
>
> They didn't, so I made one to match your description here. It checks out
fine with the multimeter, but I still get video with no audio. Leads me to
believe there's a problem with the VIC itself.
> 
> Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the C64 for
as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the video cable (the
one that splits into three RCA's, one for video and two for sound) with the
video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice, sharp, black and white display, no
color. If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get
(cruddy) color. I've checked every setting I can find on the TV for
color/B&W stuff, but everything looks right. ???
> 
> Thanks again for the help.
> 
> -- MB


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 18:09:27 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> (Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU)
References: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <19980910230927.12703.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
> As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down =
> to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's =
> auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, =
> whereas the Mac version does not.

No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Eric


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 17:01:08 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com> from "sethm@loomcom.com" at Sep 10, 98 12:27:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHEm8-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 16:41:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com> from "Jason Simpson" at Sep 10, 98 11:21:40 am
Message-ID: <m0zHESr-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 16:47:17 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 10, 98 12:18:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHEYi-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 18:55:06 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809102355.RAA27406@calico.litterbox.com>

The 64 monitor I had had a 3 wire cable with signals for chroma, luma, and
audio.  I *think* the composite cable bound chroma and luma together, or 
used a seperate composite pin.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 18:38:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHGHy-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From marvin at rain.org  Thu Sep 10 19:11:11 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Hungarian/Russian Computers
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902044639.197E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35F86A9F.1F528AD2@rain.org>

I had a great time while I was over in Austria and Hungary.  The only
computer I saw over there was a Phillips (didn't recognize it) that looked
similar to the C-64.  However, at the ARDF Championships, I met a number of
electronics people knew what it was I wanted.  One person from Russia (who
just happened to win 3 gold medals at the competition) indicated he might be
able to find some older Russian systems.  Another (who designed and built
his own equipment, and also was a past gold medal winner) told me about some
Hungarian S-100 systems that might be available.  The language barrier was
something I hadn't really anticipated, but I know now for the next time I
travel overseas!


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 19:12:42 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com) <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <19980911001242.12888.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com> wrote:
> I once hacked 
> an Apple // OS called Apex which was only out on 13 sector format 
> at the time to work with the 16 sector format when it came out.  
> That was fun.

Wow, it's pretty rare to find anyone who remembers Apex, since it wasn't
ever all that popular.  It was distributed by Apparat, and they were more
famous for NewDOS/80 for the TRS-80 Model I and Model III.

The 16-sector hack should have been quite easy, since the source code of the
disk driver was printed in the Apex manual.  I don't recall if it was provided
on disk.  Apex used Apple's RWTS routines sans some of the formatting code, in
order to free up the page between $bf00 and $bfff for other uses.  If you'd
gotten in touch with us, we would have sent you a 16-sector update.

Apex was written mainly by members of the "6502 Group", which has met on the
Colorado School of Mines campus in Golden every Tuesday* since it formed in
1976.  These days the discussion topics rarely involve 6502s, but the
name has stuck for historical reasons.  At its peak around 1981, a typical
meeting had perhaps 80 attendees, but these days it tends to be fewer than a
dozen.  I no longer live in Colorado, but whenever I go back to visit family
and friends I try to attend a meeting.

Apex evolved from earlier operating systems called FFS (Floppy File System)
and TFS (Tape File System), which were never widely distributed.  The
command interpreter and most of the utilities were written in a language
called XPL0, conceptually similar to the way that parts of CP/M were
written in PL/M.

The main people behind Apex and XPL0 were Peter Boyle, Wayne Wall, Larry Fish,
and Loren Blaney.  I'm sure I've omitted other contributors; my apologies to
them.

The XPL0 language has been ported to other processors including the x86:
	http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/computers/xpl0/

Apex was ported to the 68K, and ran on some models of Macintoshes.  It was
used by DFM for telescope controllers:
	http://www2.csn.net/~dfm42/dfm.html

Apparat's EPROM programmer for the Apple ][ was originally supplied with
APEX-based software written by Larry Fish (who also designed the hardware),
using special routines by Roger Nace to read and write Apple DOS 3.3 disks.
Because this was somewhat inconvenient for most of our customers, I wrote
entirely new software for it that ran directly under DOS 3.3.

Cheers,
Eric

* Actually we missed a few due to weather and holidays.  But almost every
  Tuesday.



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 19:53:23 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: new addition(s)
Message-ID: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com>

ive found the best way to find old machines is to let as many people know as
possible. a coworker knew i collected old machines and he gave me a very clean
rom3 apple //gs that works great along with a matching monochrome monitor in
its box. also got a clean //c and also got 3 C64s with 3 disk drives along
with the little matching dot matrix printer and all the power supplies. anyone
interested in the C64s? ive also got to pick up a sanyo mbc1000 cpm machine
which ive never heard of, and i also have a lead on some dec equipment. all i
know is it's some terminals, cables and tapes. i've requested a detailed list
of what's available. if there's anything i dont want i'll be sure to let the
subscribers to this list have first craic.

david


From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 20:05:42 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <199809110105.AA28475@world.std.com>

Jerome Fine replies:

>Bravo!  Considering how fast other things have happened in the
>past, you seem to have accomplished the job in record time.

Thanks, but I didn't do much... just produced a V5.3 binary
distribution kit... the *real* work was by Bob Supnik, who
negotiated the license with Mentec...

>Are there any things you would recommend that this groups would
>want to be aware of?  Any Y2K issues that you feel are important?

Firstly, I want to let people know that the kit put up on gatekeeper
was slightly flawed (in that it took up MUCH more space than it
needed to).  A new copy of the *same* distribution will be available
in the near future (taking up only about 900kb instead of 3.5mb)
from gatekeeper... all the proper bits are there... nothing will
be missing, don't worry.

Now, as to Y2K... I doubt that V5.3 even had the support for the
extended dates (above 2003), so there was NO y2k work done at all
on V5.3.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:14 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>

>Commodore 64/128 stuff:
>        REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
>        Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)

I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.  I
know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had mine
<sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were selectable
by a rotary switch, and available via the OCCUG (Oregon Commodore Computer
Users Group).  Of course this was back in '81 or '82 and it was a kit, they
also had a kit to upgrade the 8k card to 16k, and you could switch between
the two sizes with dip switches.

As for the SCSI adapter for the Apple ]['s, I was able to get one for about
$40 from a company in Vancover.  They do mail-order and advertise in the
Apple newsgroups.

You might be able to get a SID from http://www.paxtron.com they do Amiga
and Commodore stuff, though I prefer http://www.softhut.com for my Amiga
stuff.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 20:25:20 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Making and using PDP-11 disk images
Message-ID: <199809110125.SAA11810@loomcom.com>

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From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:49:54 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <v04011701b21e3f1db1fa@[192.168.1.2]>

>  First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on
>the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and
>the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have
>been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

VAXstation II = 8 slot backplane
VAXstation II/RC = 8 slot backplane with 3 slots filled in with Rosen = DEC
marketing ploy at a "Reduced Cost" system

I've heard that a cheap way to get a VAXstation II was to buy the II/RC,
and then replace the backplane with a normal fully functional 8 slot one.

If it's got a video card it's a VAXstation, if it doesn't it's a MicroVAX.
Basically irrelevant.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 20:55:10 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com>

I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
require a tv?

david


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 20:53:46 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <199809110200.WAA00350@gate.usaor.net>



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep 10 21:18:12 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980911121812.007e88c0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 21:55 10/09/98 EDT, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:
>I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
>composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
>speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
>require a tv?

If you're plugging the composite monitor into the RCA plug on the back of
the C64 you're not going to have much luck.  That's the RF output.  The
composite video is, if I remember correctly, on pin 4 of the AV DIN socket.

The C64 does not have an internal speaker.  Sound is modulated on the RF if
you connect it to a TV, otherwise it's present on pin 3 of the AV DIN
connector.  Either way, ^G does *not* give you a beep on a C64.  To get
sound out of it you need to resort to POKEing (I can't remember exactly
where you need to POKE, but I'm sure someone else on the list can).

Regards,

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 21:19:23 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 10, 98 09:55:10 pm
Message-ID: <199809110219.UAA28330@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, the 64 has a built in RF modulator tied to the single RCA jack in the 
back.  The composite outputs are on a DIN port and require a special cable.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:44 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <m0zHEYi-000IyNC@p850ug1>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 10, 98 12:18:22 pm
Message-ID: <199809110124.UAA04497@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 22:47, Tony Duell wrote:

> There was an official S100 expansion for the Sorcerer. I have one, and I
> also have the technical manual (= schematics) for it. Let me know if this
> info would be of use to you. No I am not going to sell the unit...

Yes, that info would be a GREAT help.  I knew that the unit existed 
but so far I've been unable to locate one, other than some that are 
in the hands of other collectors.  Since I have some S-100 card 
cages and back planes I thought I'd look into putting my own 
together.  Any info on the real one would be much appreciated.  
They also had a combo monitor/disk drive unit I've always been on 
the look out for but so far haven't located either.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:21 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809101958.A17939-0100000@netcom18>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> 
> < disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 
> 
> The RD53 has a problem, there is internally a rubber bumper and the head 
> is stuck to it!  Common problem on the Micropolus 1325s.  The fix, open it 

 Ah yes..  thanks for the memory nudge. I'll wait for the weekend 
when I can get into my shp, and do the surgery there.

> 
> < Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
> < printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
> < have let it go for 10 minutes....  
> 
> I think it's waiting for a terminal.


  Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...   
maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it 
wating for something on the ethernet port? 

> > Allison
> 
> 
  Thanks so much for your help.... hopefully this machine will be 
more than just a supply of parts for the other one....


Cheers

John
 


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 21:48:39 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <19980911001242.12888.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
Message-ID: <199809110144.UAA04522@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 0:12, Eric Smith wrote:

> Wow, it's pretty rare to find anyone who remembers Apex, since it wasn't
> ever all that popular.  It was distributed by Apparat, and they were more
> famous for NewDOS/80 for the TRS-80 Model I and Model III.

That's the one.  Still have it and the manuals too.  I've always had 
an interest in different operating systems and played with 
NewDOS/80 on a Model I as well.  They had ads for Apex and 
XPL0 and Focal IIRC which I always wanted but was a poor college 
student at the time.  Finally picked up the Apex and XPL0 at a 
discount during some going out of business sale.  Didn't have the 
Focal so I never got it.  Besides OSs I really enjoy playing with 
different languages too.

BTW, I also have a copy of another OS for the Apple // called 
CP/A.  How many here have see that one?

> The 16-sector hack should have been quite easy, since the source code of
> the disk driver was printed in the Apex manual.  I don't recall if it was
> provided on disk.  Apex used Apple's RWTS routines sans some of the
> formatting code, in order to free up the page between $bf00 and $bfff for
> other uses.  If you'd gotten in touch with us, we would have sent you a
> 16-sector update.

Yes, it wasn't real hard.  I looked through the code in the manual 
and parts of the OS and then stole code out of Apple's 16-sector 
RTWS to replace the parts of the 13-sector one that Apex used.  
Still have it around here too I believe.

> fewer than a dozen.  I no longer live in Colorado, but whenever I go back
> to visit family and friends I try to attend a meeting.

Hmm, I have family in Golden and my mom has a place up in Idaho 
Springs, maybe I should look them up sometime when I'm visiting 
up there.

Seems to me I've seen a ref around that a later version of Apex 
which is available at some site.  Don't recall off hand though.  Also 
seem to recall something about working with it on a PC but that 
just might be the Dr. Pepper affecting my mind.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From rws at ais.net  Thu Sep 10 22:04:05 1998
From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>

Hi everybody,

I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
questions concern moving them.  

What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.

1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
could lighten them up. 

3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or removing
anything, stuff like that.

Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:

4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?

5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.

6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.

7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
winter?  I live in IL.

Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).

I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model OIS-60X,
and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC connectors),
plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the server. 
I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges too,
"because they're almost the same".  I think not.

Thanks,

Richard Schauer
rws@ais.net



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 22:09:29 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
Message-ID: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>

A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a "bunch
of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:

1 commodore 64.
1 composite monitor for a 64.
1 1541 floppy drive.
1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
1 vic 1600 modem.
1 Apple Printer.
lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.

I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)

Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?

*shrug*

Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)

-Jim
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 23:15:37 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809101958.A17939-0100000@netcom18>
References: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21e5418a0ab@[192.168.1.2]>

>  Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...
>maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it
>wating for something on the ethernet port?

Classicly stupid question, are you using the same cable that you use for
the other system?  These systems expect something other than a plain
null-modem cable.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From cfandt at servtech.com  Thu Sep 10 22:25:39 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <199809110325.DAA07254@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 22:04 10-09-98 -0500,  "Richard W. Schauer" <rws@ais.net> wrote:
>Hi everybody,
>
>I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
>questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
>questions concern moving them.  
>
>What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
>5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
>plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
>order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
>
>1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
>2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
>lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

I know a bit about the 3262's. Had a chance to drag one home with my 9370
system. Too doggone big to handle so I did not take it. Stripped
electronics out and had to scrap rest :-(  

They do weigh something over 525 pounds. Not much could be stripped to make
them lighter. Maybe the PSU which weighs about 70-80 pounds. 

220 volts, single phase is the power needed. Don't think they can be set to
115v. but I could check the hardware manual I got stashed in some box
around here that is not yet unpacked. 

The 3262's are however on wheels which would make moving somewhat easier.
Mr. Donzelli is one of the listmembers who knows IBM Big Iron. He might
chime-in on the other components.

Good luck.

Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 22:36:48 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980910203648.00bc09d4@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>


Perhaps this list can help me identify something I just picked up.

It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
button makes contact, it says "TOP".

It looked about the right size for a C64 cartridge, but it doesn't do
anything.

Any ideas? Too bad I pretty much destroyed the case while opening it. It
was glued shut pretty tight.

	-jrs
 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 22:59:24 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <199809110359.AA04897@world.std.com>

< > < Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
< > < printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
< > < have let it go for 10 minutes....  
< > 
< > I think it's waiting for a terminal.
< 
< 
<   Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...   
< maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it 
< wating for something on the ethernet port? 

Nope step 8 is language inquery and if it's not printing a list to 
respond to then the halt button is in.  Step 9 is identify the terminal.

If the terminal cannot or does not respond I belive it will continue.
Do check the settings of the halt and run buttons and The switches on the 
rear pannel.

Allison



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 23:12:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910211144.9355E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.  I
> know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had mine
> <sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were selectable

I know a 4-carthridge adapter was made for the TI-99/4a as I picked one up
from a thrift store a while ago.


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 23:17:09 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
In-Reply-To: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910211639.9355F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
> with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
> going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
> a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
> Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
> interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
> be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?

It probably indicates you've finally acquired some good taste :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rexstout at uswest.net  Fri Sep 11 00:21:15 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <l03130300b21e5e79af71@[207.225.86.192]>

I've only seen a System/34, so that's all I'm talking about... You can get
more info by going to
http://www.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?request=menu&parms=&xu=guest&xp=&xh=lo
gon and choose the SalesManual link, enter the part number(5340, 5360,
etc...) and off you go... Be sure to use the inactive option for the older
hardware, and then go through all of them and see what pops up. Lots of
cool stuff...

>1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
>2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
>lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?
Probably. The 34 is very large and heavy, but they have very nice wheels
under them, works great on smooth floors. No info at IBMLink about
size/weight/etc...

>2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
>tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
>they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
>could lighten them up.
I'm not sure. There really isn't much that can come apart. I suppose you
could get the hard drives out, but I'm not sure how(just moving those
around would be interesting to watch...). You could take out the floppy
drive, but it doesn't weigh much. Maybe you could get the power supply out,
but I don't know how. I would be worried more about the cabling than the
actual hardware, I'm not sure how everythings hooked up in there.


>Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
>4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
The 5340 uses twin-ax cabling(big thick expensive stuff) going to 5250-type
terminals. You could also use a PC as a terminal using a twinax interface
card(they seem kinda expensive to me, I seem to remember seeing them for
around $150+ last time I looked). You can still buy the cabling and maybe
the terminals, go to http://www.system3x.com/, which has TONS of Sys/3x and
AS/400 stuff.

>5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.
IBMLink shows single phase 208v or 230v as the options available.

>6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
I'm not sure, but I doubt it's very much. Looking at IBMLink, they maxed
out with a 258MB hard drive(which required an extension to the cabinet),
and 256K RAM. Bottom end was 8MB HD and 32K RAM.

>7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
>winter?  I live in IL.
Well, most people joke(or were they?) about using them AS a heater... Do a
search at DejaNews(http://www.dejanews.com/) use the power search option
and set an early begin search date. There's some interesting stories about
the S/34, but mostly resumes for people who once programmed them but no
longer remember anythign about them...

>Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
>be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
I'd be worried about damage to yourself. Times like this are good to have
an ambulance sitting nearby ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Thu Sep 10 23:11:01 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle
References: <199809100702.AAA13199@lists4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35F8A2D4.77DFCE0C@goldrush.com>

This snippet I grabbed last year as I was compiling my Commodore 8-bit write
up for Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 at least it's a lead...  (my scrapbook
doesn't get cleaned much)   I think it was a writeup on an awards ceremony for
the innovators of the microcomputer industry.

>        One of the awards went to William D. Mensch, Jr., president and CEO, The Western
>        Design Center Inc. Mensch was fundamental to the development of the Motorola
>        68000 microprocessor, and he went on to help invent and develop the 6502 chip at
>        MOS Technology in the early 1970s. The 6502 was eventually used in Apple,
>        Commodore and Atari computers.
> 
>        The second award in the category was presented to Chuck Peddle, president, Thstyme
>        Ltd., and another MOS Technology veteran. Peddle pioneered the phenomenally
>        successful 6502 microprocessor, and, under Commodore, led the development of one
>        of the first personal computers: the PET (Personal Electronic Transactor), which put the
>        6502 chip to practical use.

Hope that helps!
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 23:57:35 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <199809110359.AA04897@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809102112.A2853-0100000@netcom5>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> < wating for something on the ethernet port? 
> 
> Nope step 8 is language inquery and if it's not printing a list to 
> respond to then the halt button is in.  Step 9 is identify the terminal.
> 
> If the terminal cannot or does not respond I belive it will continue.
> Do check the settings of the halt and run buttons and The switches on the 
> rear pannel.

  Right. Zane asked (quite rightly) in an earlier post if I was sure 
of my cabling..  yes, I am using the same cables for both machines; 
the 'dead' one is sitting on top of the 'live' one's cabinet...  
nothing but the DB9 adapter going to the console and the power cord.

Further configuration observation: The II/RC has a console port, a 
DB15F (for e-net?) and 8 DB25Ms... [this is the working machine]
  The II has the DB9M, the DB15F + fuse holder, marked DEQNA, and 
two other DB15s, for the monitor and keyboard [dead machine]

  BUT......

 What *IS* stupid is...  last time it gave me the >>> prompt and I 
just sat there waiting for the computer, which was waiting for me to 
tell it to do something.  DUH! So, okay, tonite a few more synapses 
are firing than last time..  I type >>>b <ret> and......

?06 HLT INST
    PC = 20040314
?15 CORRPTN

 and there we are....  I do not have the proper docs yet, so y'all 
must tell me what this means... unless my dim assumption is correct 
and it is missing it's Fixed Disk...  which is still stuck.  I 
re-booted 6 or 7 times, the result is invariate.

> 
> Allison
> 
> 


  Cheers (and mucho thanks!!)


  John



From thedm at sunflower.com  Fri Sep 11 00:26:47 1998
From: thedm at sunflower.com (TheDM)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
Message-ID: <000801bddd44$c5c9e720$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us>

When or IF you get rid of it, im very interested in that monitor.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 10:19 PM
Subject: treasure haul


>A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a
"bunch
>of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:
>
>1 commodore 64.
>1 composite monitor for a 64.
>1 1541 floppy drive.
>1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
>1 vic 1600 modem.
>1 Apple Printer.
>lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
>lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.
>
>I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
>work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
>switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)
>
>Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
>with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm
probably
>going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I
was
>a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I
had.
>Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the
non-standard
>interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I
wouldn't
>be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?
>
>*shrug*
>
>Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)
>
>-Jim
>--
>Jim Strickland
>jim@calico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 03:00:19 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <8bfe1699.35f8d893@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-10 23:23:46 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
 questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
 questions concern moving them.  
 
 What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
 5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
 plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
 order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
 
 1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
 lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is
necessary.
 
 2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
 tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
 they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
 could lighten them up. 

Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I don't know
the configuation of  the 34. It is possible it could be composed of several
parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have moved
several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate type of
liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully the truck
matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a piece of
sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on. IBM made
a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used to keep
the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can tie it
down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off each
machine.
 
 3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or removing
 anything, stuff like that.

At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be raised
with a crescent wrench, all the way up.
 
 Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
 
 4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
 
 5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.

It could be single phase.
 
 6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
 
 7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
 winter?  I live in IL.

They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be warm to
run.
 
 Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
 be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
 
 I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
 take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model OIS-60X,
 and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC connectors),
 plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the server. 
 I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges too,
 "because they're almost the same".  I think not.
  >>
If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The engine
is a Canon SX I think.


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Sep 11 06:39:38 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35F90BFA.61DE2166@rain.org>

Jim wrote:
> 
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some
> of the early 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection
> a H.E.R.O, or other robots of that vintage?

I was at a thrift store about a year ago, and saw a Max Steele Robot for
sale.  With a price of $10 including manuals but no main battery but in
pretty good shape, I purchased it.  After mounting a 12V gel cell on the
back (it wouldn't fit inside the robot), we found out it worked quite
nicely.  A web search turned up a web site (don't have it handy) where the
statistics and more info was available.  Apparently there were only about
5000 of these units made.  It uses, IIRC, a 6502 microprocessor and has a
slot for program cartridges.


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 09:29:17 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809111212.OAA01306@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
>>> (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
>>> Try to get a second one.

> Who stole your Apple ///?

Who ? I guess some bad guys.

> And under what circumstances??

They opened the basement dor on the backside of the house, and
worked their way up into the computer rooms.

>> To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
>> leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
>> would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
>> to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
>> That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
>> what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
>> something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

> Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
> computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
> the pawn shop :)

Its exacte wat I think hapened - the APPLE /// (no plus!) was
the most prominent device on the big table. I think he was the
only thing close to a PC in their eyes (An APPLE // 'tower' with
two Profile Harddisks, Monitor /// and an external Disk /// drive).

I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

I'm very happy that they didn't know what was laying in front
of them - they took none of the KIMs or the other ols single
boarders, non of the real devices like SWTP or Heatkit.

My problem is that I should monitor now all major flea markts,
but I'm leaving for the VCF this saturday :(

Gruss
H.




--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From museum at techniche.com  Fri Sep 11 07:27:59 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <199809111227.IAA25788@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi Jason,

I can't precisely identify what you have but I've got a navarone cartridge
connector somewhere in my collection.  They were a small company and
the connector I have allow you to have 3 cartridges connected to the TI99/4a
at once.  there was a switch to select the cartridge that you wanted to be
active and a reset button if I remember correctly.  This allow you to 
switch cartridges *without* reseting the computer or putting too much
wear on your cartridges.  This was very useful in certain circumstances
such as when using the assembler cartridge.  You wolld use it in this 
way  to examine the workings of ther cartridges.

Maybe your device serves a somewhat similar function.

Jon

>
>Perhaps this list can help me identify something I just picked up.
>
>It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
>light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
>square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
>an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
>covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
>SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
>button makes contact, it says "TOP".
>
>It looked about the right size for a C64 cartridge, but it doesn't do
>anything.
>
>Any ideas? Too bad I pretty much destroyed the case while opening it. It
>was glued shut pretty tight.
>
>	-jrs
> 
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon
>



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 11 08:59:37 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
Message-ID: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

Isn't it funny how that law *ALWAYS* works?

Here's the story:
44 is on a sturdy (I thought...) cart, ready to be moved into a larger room with more power available.  Then RA81, and 2 BA boxes.  Cart is stood toward the middle of the server room overnight, so if it does fall, nothing gets damaged, right?

Try again.

About 7:00, Linux server dies.  Funny.  I come in to investigate this morining.
Arrive to the gentle beep of UPSes.
Spot the 44 in multiple parts on the floor, shit pants, see the cart against the
opposite wall (Or as close as it could get, there was crud in it's way...)
Apparently, the 44 dove off the cart about 6:00, the distro panel for the
DH11 caught the power line of a strip loaded with gear on the way down, sliced it
open, and made for a small electrical fire.
Total damage:  A hefty dose of 120AC on the DH distro board, and I snapped the
switch of the second BA11 (AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!  NOT AGAIN!), but it seems to
be OK.  The traces (appear to be) OK on the distro panel, so I may be able to
clean the scorch mark off.

As for that powerstrip, it shorted, blackened part of the wall, and nailed the
power to 2 of our servers when it blew the breaker for the wall it was attached
to.

I hate life...
-------


From adept at Mcs.Net  Fri Sep 11 09:02:19 1998
From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
In-Reply-To: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980911090151.15970A-100000@Mercury.mcs.net>

Depending on the software and carts, I'd be interested in them when
you are through. :)

Cheers,

  Dan

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a "bunch
> of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:
> 
> 1 commodore 64.
> 1 composite monitor for a 64.
> 1 1541 floppy drive.
> 1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
> 1 vic 1600 modem.
> 1 Apple Printer.
> lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
> lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
> work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
> switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)
> 
> Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
> with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
> going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
> a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
> Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
> interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
> be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)
> 
> -Jim
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 11 09:04:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911070410.27006A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> I hate life...

And what did you learn from this mini-tragedy, Daniel?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 11 09:15:54 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911070410.27006A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[What did I learn?]

Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
weight.

Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.
-------


From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au  Fri Sep 11 19:50:30 1998
From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Recent finds...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980912004232.2550A-100000@blitzen.canberra.edu.au>


Today I had to transfer a vast quantity of old computers from one uni
faculty down to residences (where I am sysadmin), now this load of
equipment was mainly older PC's, and some Apple II and Mac stuff, now the
interesting part.. Amongst the boxes of disks there is a box of about 30
hard-sectored disks, including a couple labelled 'CP/M Ver 2.2 Rev 1.2.1
9600 Baud, PIP,FILES,SYSGEN,STAT,DO(=SUBMIT),DSKCOPY(=COPY)' and a few
disks of something called "GDOS". Also I was given a few shelves full of
technical books, including what appears to be a complete set of Philips
component books, as well as other data books, and the most interesting
being the Motorola 8-bit devices manual, and a Kaypro technical manual.
There is also a collection of Kaypro PC's.

Would this be CP/M-86 or the Z80 version,and are they useful to anyone?

Cheers
Karl

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia

Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au



From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Sep 11 09:01:47 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: More on emulation, Linus and Transmeta from TBTF
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980911090147.00e99960@pc>

..Say it ain't so, Luke

  Watching the watchers watch Transmeta

    Transmeta, the Silicon Valley company that employs Linus Torvalds,
    isn't saying what kind of technology it's working on. (Their Web
    site says, succinctly if paradoxically, "This web page is not here
    yet.") The Red Herring tried to find out what they are up to --
    or perhaps their account of the attempt, "Stalking Transmeta," [17]
    is all in good fun. PC Magazine prints a more substantial guess [18]:

      > [Transmeta] has been working for about two years on a CPU for
      > PCs, which is rumored to have its own internal instruction set
      > but to use a fast software translator to execute x86 instruc-
      > tions. Transmeta has raised a large (undisclosed) amount of
      > venture capital and is well staffed; a product debut is likely
      > in 1999.

    In the NY Times for 8/31, John Markoff relays a rumor [19] that he
    says has some Sili Valley techies quite upset.

    Markoff's article is mostly about evidence of increasing strain
    in the "Wintel" alliance. One factor contributing to the wobble
    is the rapid growth of technology areas such as telephony and
    personal digital assistants that do not use Intel hardware or
    Microsoft software. Microsoft has an entrant at this end of the
    market -- Windows CE -- but Intel is seen as concentrating in-
    creasingly on the shrinking top end. (Its purchase of Digital's
    StrongArm technology may have been reduced in value by the defec-
    tion of key technical talent.)

    If Transmeta, which was founded by a former Sun Sparc architect,
    is working on a platform for portable computing -- let's call it
    a "media chip" [20] -- what OS will it run? Well, with Linus on
    board, you would assume the answer would be "Linux, duh." Some
    flavor of Java would certainly be a contender. But Markoff says
    the word is that Transmeta may run Microsoft software. A hardware
    designer is quoted thus:

      > It would be a little like hiring Luke Skywalker and then
      > turning the whole organization over to Darth Vader.

    [17] http://www.herring.com/mag/issue58/stalking.html
    [18] http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/cpu98/intro10.html
    [19]
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/08/biztech/articles/31chip.html
    [20] http://www.techweb.com/se/directlink.cgi?EET19980706S0069
    ____________________________________________

    TBTF home and archive at http://www.tbtf.com/ . To subscribe send
    the message "subscribe" to tbtf-request@world.std.com. TBTF is
    Copyright 1994-1998 by Keith Dawson, <dawson@world.std.com>. Com-
    mercial use prohibited. For non-commercial purposes please forward,
    post, and link as you see fit.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 11 10:41:12 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911084037.5620A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> [What did I learn?]
> 
> Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
> weight.
> 
> Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.

You also might want to lean a rickety pile of boxes against a wall instead
of parking it in the center of a bunch of expensive or critical equipment.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep 10 23:14:25 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: CP/M for TRS-80 model 4P
References: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35F8A3A1.F0FCC2EF@sprintmail.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of CP/M for my TRS-80 model 4P ?
I would be very greatfull.. Also Pay for your trouble and shipping charges..

I fact I will send you a pre-paid return mailer for you to just put the disk in
for me..

Please help... Thanks..

Phil...




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Fri Sep 11 11:37:46 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Making and using PDP-11 disk images
Message-ID: <980911123746.2e2@trailing-edge.com>

>Could someone provide a quick tutorial on how the process works?

All you need is one page out of the RT-11 manuals: that for COPY/DEV/FI.

As an example, if you've got a RX02 that you want an image of, and you're
going to put that image on a RL02 and call it "MYRX02.DSK", you do:

COPY/DEVICE/FILE DY0: DL0:MYRX02.DSK

Then you use Kermit (or, if you're like me and have a half-dozen networked
PDP-11's, you just use FTP) to move the image off to whatever other place
you might want to put the image.

To do the reverse operation, you'd (or course!) do:

COPY/FILE/DEVICE DL0:MYRX02.DSK DY0:

Note that doing this under RT-11, you *only* get the blocks that RT-11
usually addresses on the disk.  There are the usual caveats about
track zero on 8" floppies and the bad block forwarding table on RL02's;
these are well-discussed in the RT-11 _Software Support Manual_ in
the sections on individual drivers, and the .SPFUN ways of reading
these areas are also thoroughly documented.

Also note that in doing this, you'll be copying every block on the disk,
even those not included in a file.  Don't get burned like some others
have and end up copying proprietary or personal data that you didn't
want copied when you make the image!  Bob Schor has a program called
"CLEAR.SAV", that is available from the 11S113 RT DECUS SIG symposium
tape, that will clear out blocks not allocated to a file.  This, and
many other useful utilities from Bob, are available from:

ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/11s113/schor1_dsk

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Fri Sep 11 12:12:23 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111212.OAA01306@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809111607.LAA05220@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 14:30, Hans Franke wrote:

> I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
> destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
> trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
> unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
> and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
> 4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
> the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see 
but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't 
expect I will.  Back before I really started collecting, someone 
broken in and tried to take my AT&T 6300.  The cables were all 
screwed into the back around the sides of the desk's hutch.  Since 
they were in a hurry they just tried to pick it up and run.  The 
cables snapped so they left it.  Took a friend's PC and left my 
Amiga 500.  Guess they thought it was just a spare keyboard or 
something.  Had some other systems but those were all that were 
in the house at the time.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 14:51:27 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> On 11 Sep 98, at 14:30, Hans Franke wrote:
>> I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
>> destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
>> trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
>> unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
>> and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
>> 4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
>> the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

> Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see 
> but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't 
> expect I will.

Hmm brings up two questions:
First: Is there already an Enterprise for display (Juhu Sa-a-am) ?
Second: Will you be attending VCF ?
If no for the first question, I could take the remainings and
put it up on display - but if no for the second, I'm sooo sorry :)

Gruss
H.

P.S.: Sam, answer quick, since I will do last Email-check in
  about 2 hours.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From heavy at ctesc.net  Fri Sep 11 12:39:34 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <199809062111.RAA29748@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]>

Hi, ya'll- I'm overwhelmed and elated to have found this listserve.
Overwhelmed by the depth of knowledge displayed here, and by your
willingness to share it. Elated because I have been watching, and even
participating, for years in the loss by destruction for recycling these old
machines, without being able to do much about it, personally. This very
active listserve gives me hope that the history of computing will not be
lost!

My entry into computing is very short compared to many on this list. I've
been hacking on these things for only about 6-7 years, and I am
self-taught. My first machine was a Sanyo MBC-1000 given to me by a friend.
I graduated from that to a Mac 512KE, and have worked my way up through
most of the Macs (including some backward steps). I will probably be mostly
a lurker, although I do see now that I possess some little knowledge that I
can share with the list, primarily about restoring old Macs, in the
practical hardware sense. I don't know much about programming, except for
the "higher" GUI, user-level stuff. The Macs that I have and use every day
(that I calll modern) consist in a Mac SE-30 (that I'm setting up as a
local router), a Quadra 610, and a Quadra 950; I had to suppress a chuckle
(at myself), on visiting one of the links I found here (the Classic
Computer show on the West Coast?) and seeing that the Q950 was included
amongst the line of obsolete Macs. Oh, I know that it's obsolete, but it
does my work quite well, for now, and I can't at the moment afford to
upgrade to a PPC. (I paid big money for it, too.) The Q610 has a "classic"
Apple 601 Upgrade card in it, which converts it into a 40Mhz PPC, and I've
discovered works very well under OS 8.1, despite being disclaimed by Apple
for support. I also have an Intel 100Mhz Pentium, on which I'm hacking on
learning Windows NT 4.

In spite of my preoccupation with the old stuff, my most ardent desire is
for machines and software that really work well, for users in the present
and future. Liken this to the auto industry: the first automobiles that
came out had to have a physically strong person with a fair amount of
knowledge of their auto's workings, in order to deal with the problems that
arose while driving them. Automobiles have "progressed" to a stage where
everyone can now own one, without much of a clue as to how they work, and
can rely on them to get them to their destination. Computers are
progressing along this path, at what I consider a much faster rate, than
the automobile. Although I place myself in the first class of users to some
extent, I DON'T WANT to have to go back and learn all the basics, that many
on this list display intimate knowledge of. I'm too old (54), started too
late in computing, and have too many other interests to take care of, to do
that.

Due to circumstances, I am in a place where there is a lot of old machines
to find, and I do have a small collection. Also due to circumstances, I am
needing to divest myself of my collection, and am actively doing so, on
eBay. I was somewhat surprised at the interest displayed on two of my
auctions, and didn't discover the reason for this, until I delivered one of
the Sanyo MBC-1000s to a buyer in Austin, George Currie. He told me about
this list, and said that someone had posted my auctions to this list, and
the mystery was solved.

There has been some recent talk on this list about old Mac restorations.
I've been running an auction on 10 MacPlus analog pullouts, for two weeks,
and have dropped the starting price from $3@ to $1@, in a Dutch auction.
They have finally gotten bids, and if any on this list has any interest in
them, this is their last chance at 'em. The auction ends today at 23:05:36.
Had I known of this list, I would have offered them here, first. I think I
paid $5@ for them, when I bought them, years ago.

MacPlus Analog parts boards:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=28864145

    "Recycleable" is the new politically-correct word for "Garbage"
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 11 12:46:36 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: More on emulation, Linus and Transmeta from TBTF
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980911090147.00e99960@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980911123348.19941B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Another clue that Transmeta is making a new chip: one of their host names
is neosilicon.  Their DNS servers is very friendly and talkative, but they
are clearly paranoid in the way their servers are configured.

Centaur was much the same way when they were making their x86 clone (which
I think they call WinChip now).  IBM was also pretty quiet about their 615
project -- I don't remember if they ever admitted that the chip existed.
If Transmeta is really making an x86 clone, all I can say is *yawn*.
Linus is still pretty active on the Linux kernel hackers list doing
seemingly mainstream stuff.  Maybe they hired him as a tester.  Doing x86
compatibility testing is the hardest part of making a clone.

ObCC: what was the first MPU clone?  It couldn't have been the NS 8080
clone, could it?

-- Doug



From lff at unique-inc.com  Fri Sep 11 12:45:50 1998
From: lff at unique-inc.com (lff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: ATARI 1040ST w/monitor
Message-ID: <199809111745.NAA23644@i2klff.unique>


Would you be interested in an ATARI 1040ST computer with the SC1224
monitor?  I have a host of software for it, include dBASE, word
processors, a C language compiler, and others.  I also have
a handful of games.

Larry Fisher

Unique Computer Services Inc.
lff@unique-inc.com 
(732) 786-0111 x104 (voice)
(732) 786-0097 (fax)


From gentry at zk3.dec.com  Fri Sep 11 13:08:00 1998
From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <35F96700.41C6@zk3.dec.com>

I recently wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
> by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
> distribution kit available on:
> 
> ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z

I'm sorry to say that the file is *temporarily* unavailable.  I'm
replacing it with a much smaller file, but this new file will still
contain all the bits as distributed (the old file had a lot of
empty space, the size of an RL02).

I'll let everyone know when the new, smaller, file is available.

                                        Megan Gentry
                                        Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry&zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg&world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    |     Replace '&' with '@' for mail   |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   | 
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 11 14:53:44 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <19980911195345.9838.qmail@hotmail.com>





The System/34 is on wheels. You do need to lock the hard drive heads
if there's a hard drive. To do this: slide a coin or screwdriver
into the little slots on the sides of the machine to open the panels.
Once you've found the hard drive, there is one variety I can help
you with. In this one, there is a metal box to the right of the
motor, spindle, etc. On one side of this box is a single screw
which you have to remove. This will allow you to swing the metal box
out of the way on its hinges. Once done, you will find a white
plastic wheel on the bottom edge of the drive. TUrn it all the way
in the direction that it will turn. THere should be directions on the
metal box as well.
> plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
> order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
> 
> 1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there 
estimated
> 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 
500
> lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?
>
>The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is
>necessary.
> 
> 2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get 
to
> tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
> they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
> could lighten them up. 
>
>Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I 
don't know
>the configuation of  the 34. It is possible it could be composed of 
several
>parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have 
moved
>several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate 
type of
>liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully 
the truck
>matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a 
piece of
>sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on. 
IBM made
>a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used 
to keep
>the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can 
tie it
>down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off 
each
>machine.
> 
> 3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or 
removing
> anything, stuff like that.
>
>At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be 
raised
>with a crescent wrench, all the way up.
> 
> Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
> 
> 4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
> 
> 5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.
>
>It could be single phase.
> 
> 6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
> 
> 7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
> winter?  I live in IL.
>
>They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be 
warm to
>run.
> 
> Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really 
like to
> be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
> 
> I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
> take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model 
OIS-60X,
> and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC 
connectors),
> plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the 
server. 
> I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges 
too,
> "because they're almost the same".  I think not.
>  >>
>If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The 
engine
>is a Canon SX I think.
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 19:03:57 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Bye
Message-ID: <199809112146.XAA26763@marina.fth.sbs.de>

I will leve the list for the next 3 weeks - I think thats way better 
than to read one zillion mails :)

Bis zum VCF
(See you at the VCF)
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 13:21:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Sep 11, 98 06:59:37 am
Message-ID: <m0zHXoy-000IyUC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 12:32:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 10, 98 09:55:10 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHX3Q-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep 11 17:00:03 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: CP/M for TRS-80 model 4P
References: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com> <35F8A3A1.F0FCC2EF@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <35F99D63.70F7@bright.net>

Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a copy of CP/M for my TRS-80 model 4P ?
> I would be very greatfull.. Also Pay for your trouble and shipping charges..
> 
> I fact I will send you a pre-paid return mailer for you to just put the disk in
> for me..
> 
> Please help... Thanks..
> 
> Phil...
Hi Phil,
I used to own a TRS-80 Model 4P. I always keep copies of master disks
just in case I might need them in the future. Attached is Montezuma
Micro CP/M disk image file I saved using the TELEDISK program. I also am
including TELEDISK. Good luck and let me know if it worked for you. Oh,
be sure to replicate this disk in a 360K drive. 1.2 meg drives are not
reliable for making copies.

--Alan
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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Fri Sep 11 17:19:38 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: the haul (revisited)
Message-ID: <199809112219.QAA02608@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, yesterday I posted about a bunch of commodore stuff a friend gave me 
in the process of cleaning out his trailor.  Here is the skinny.

The 64 works, but the keyboard has about had it.  A and RETURN don't work 
without wiggling them.  I seem to recall keyboards for this machine for about 
5 bucks in surplus catalogs. I'll sell it for $10 +shipping.  Includes power 
supply (the white brick kind, possibly from a 64c?) and manual.

The 1541 works flawlessly.  I'm kind of surprized, mine was a finicky piece of
junk.  This one appears to be the later model of '41 with the rectangular access
light.  I'll sell it for $20 + shipping.  I *think* I have a manual for this 
too.

I didn't try the printer.  It's a Seikosia sp1000vc, looks intact, but has
no ribbon.  If you want it, make me an offer + shipping.  

The monitor is junk.  It works, but unless you live near Colorado Springs and
like to frotz with monitors internally it's not worth mailing.  Picture quality
is worse than a cheap TV.  If you live nearby and want it let me know and you
can have it.

Vicmodem - Don't know.  Haven't got a phone line near where I was testing
and I've long since forgotten how to use a vicmodem.  May already be spoken for.
has the disk it shipped with, which has victerm, 64 term, and quantumlink. 

All prices are in US dollars, and all the hardware is designed to run on US
current with US video screens.

I've already had several people express interest in the cartriges and the 
software, and I've sent e-mail to the person who sent the oldest timestamped
message.  This person also wanted the vicmodem.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Fri Sep 11 16:45:40 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980911164320.24682A-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>



> Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
> weight.
> 
> Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.

You learned that if you drop an 11/44 on a linux box, the linux box stops 
working.  If you drop a linux box on an 11/44 the 11/44 doesn't stop 
working.  =-)  Or something like that...

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 18:00:52 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <542b32db.35f9aba4@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-11 18:10:36 EDT, you write:

<< Older machines have a 5 pin DIN socket, later ones have an 8 pin one. I 
 can look up the pinouts if you need them. >>

yes, that would be great. one socket has 6 pins, the other has 8 pins. 


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Sep 11 18:13:17 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980911152237.5d57ce66@ricochet.net>

At 08:36 PM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the

IIRC, Navarone made a video interface for (at least) the Atari ST -- plug
your camcorder/vcr into the cart, plug the cart into the computer, and
capture images.  Kinda like the Snappy thing you can get these days.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Sep 11 18:13:20 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Recent findings
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980911162818.5f37b5a8@ricochet.net>

I managed to pick up a Fora LP-386c mini-lunchbox (kinda like some of the
Compaq's).  Dated 1989, so almost classic, and my first "F" computer!  

Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but otherwise
seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this?  Inside,
it has some interesting connectors.  There are some flat... hmmm.. plastic
strips with traces on them (kinda like ultra-flat ribbon cables?) that go
into what look like IDC connectors.  Only, you pull up on the top rim of
the IDC-like things, and that releases the ends of the flat things.
Surprised the heck out of me when I was (gently!) trying to pull the whole
thing off.  8^)  

Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
would an RCA plug work? 

Lastly, but not least, is probably the coolest item I've found in a while
-- A Frisbee that says XEROX PARC on it.  Very neat!


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep 10 14:29:36 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <m0zHGHy-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809112334.TAA00524@smtp.interlog.com>

On 11 Sep 98 at 0:38, Tony Duell wrote:

> The audio output circuit is quite simple. Sound comes from pin 19 on the 
> 6560 VIC chip (UB7). It's filtered by C17 (0.01uF), R16 (1M) and C20 
> (0.1uF) and fed to the base of Q5 (2N3904) which is connected as an 
> emitter follower. The collector is tied to the +5V rail. The emitter load 
> is R15 (470 Ohm). The emitter is also connected to the +ve side of C16 
> (1uF), the other side of which goes to pin 3 of the monitor socket.
> 
Interesting. The schematic I have in the Programmers Reference Guide is
obviously for a different model. The schema is c-writ 1980 and labeled 
"Schematic Main Logic Version E"


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep 10 14:29:35 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <199809112334.TAA00530@smtp.interlog.com>

On 10 Sep 98 at 9:40, Jason Simpson wrote:


> Some things I'd like to find:
> 

> Commodore 64/128 stuff:
>         REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
>         Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)
>         Accelerator
>         Serial accelerator
>         SuperSnapshot 5 cartridge **
Try
	J.P. PBM Products By Mail
	Box # 60515, N. Sheridan Mall P.O.
	Downsview, ON M3L 1B0
	CANADA
They own the rights to SS and are TMK still producing it and were working on
version 6 which might be available now.

>         -jrs
> 
ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From system at minako.umtec.com  Fri Sep 11 17:39:35 1998
From: system at minako.umtec.com (system@minako.umtec.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
Message-ID: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com>

Can you guys ack this please?

If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:26:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <19980911195345.9838.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 11, 98 12:53:44 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbdm-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:16:04 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]> from "Jim Weiler" at Sep 11, 98 12:39:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbU8-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:20:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Sep 11, 98 07:52:27 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbY9-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:45:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809112334.TAA00524@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 10, 98 07:29:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHcst-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:54:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <542b32db.35f9aba4@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 11, 98 07:00:52 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHd18-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Fri Sep 11 19:12:36 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com> from "system@minako.umtec.com" at Sep 11, 98 06:39:35 pm
Message-ID: <199809120012.UAA28280@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
> Can you guys ack this please?
> 
> If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...
> 

Wow... SMTP on VAX/VMS.  Now I just have to find a Vax.

Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From cfandt at servtech.com  Fri Sep 11 19:50:34 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120012.UAA28280@shell.monmouth.com>
References: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com>
Message-ID: <199809120050.AAA26145@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 20:12 11-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> 
>> Can you guys ack this please?
>> 
>> If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...
>> 
>
>Wow... SMTP on VAX/VMS.  Now I just have to find a Vax.

Hey Bill!  I got an 11/750 for which I want to find a home before winter
sets in too far....

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 19:54:48 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Vax 730 FS
Message-ID: <3c1a7403.35f9c658@aol.com>

I have a Vax 730 for sale in Portland, Oregon. I am open to all offers above
scrap.
Please reply directly to whoagiii@aol.com.


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Fri Sep 11 20:00:44 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120050.AAA26145@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Sep 11, 98 08:50:34 pm
Message-ID: <199809120100.VAA11942@shell.monmouth.com>

> Hey Bill!  I got an 11/750 for which I want to find a home before winter
> sets in too far....
> 
> --Chris


I'm not crazy about electric heat 8-)

Actually, maintenance on an 11/750's a royal pain.  I used to do 'em
for a living.

I'm looking for something smaller.  I think a '780's easier to fix
than a '730 or 750.

Anyone on the group have any comments about 11/750 maintenance in a home
environment.  Custom gate arrays scare me without the RDC board and a spares
kit.

Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Fri Sep 11 20:15:48 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VAX 11/750s everywhere
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809111847.A1007-0100000@netcom13>



  But not within 1000 miles of El-Lay, dammit!

  I would love to find a '750 system. Preferrably with a TE16 and RL02s.

  And docs and software.

  Is that too much to ask of the Universe? O Great Gods of Scrap:

  Just one 11/750, then I'll shut up.

  I promise.


  sigh.

John.


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 11 21:20:35 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Looking for RX01 Floppies
Message-ID: <199809120220.TAA03130@fraser.sfu.ca>

Hi Gang:

I am looking for some RX01 8" floppies, for use in my recently-acquired
RX01 drives (thanks go to John Lawson!!).

I can trade a few boxes of 5-1/4" DD floppies for them. Software on the
diskettes would be a bonus (OS/8 would be great!) but is not a
requirement. I just need some floppies that I can use in my new drives.

Thanks,

Kevin


-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:04:17 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
References: <199809111607.LAA05220@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <35F9E4B1.AB31EC5D@cnct.com>

David Williams wrote:

> Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see
> but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't
> expect I will.  Back before I really started collecting, someone
> broken in and tried to take my AT&T 6300.  The cables were all
> screwed into the back around the sides of the desk's hutch.  Since
> they were in a hurry they just tried to pick it up and run.  The
> cables snapped so they left it.  Took a friend's PC and left my
> Amiga 500.  Guess they thought it was just a spare keyboard or
> something.  Had some other systems but those were all that were
> in the house at the time.

My apartment was burglarized back in the early 80s.  Missing was a
32k TRS-80 Color Computer with disk drive and Line Printer 8 and a
Tandyvision One (the relabeled Mattel Intellivision), that latter
bought the previous day on closeout ($25 less 10% employee discount).
The place was trashed somewhat, and they ignored a couple thousand
bucks worth of semi-precious stones and an amber necklace that my 
ex-wife had from her grandmother that would easily pawn a K.

It was the day that the first copy of OS-9 arrived at the Radio
Shack Computer Center where I did tech support.  I went home with
every intent of finally breaking the seal to see if it would go
live with 64k.  It was not a good day.

My subscription copy of 80-Micro was on the couch.  Neither my ex-
wife nor I had brought it in.  This was in the peak years, when it
wouldn't fit into an apartment house mail niche and instead went
into the trough underneath the mailboxes.  The best assumption is
that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
"maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".  The cop who
took the report demonstrated how easy it was to open our type of
patio door.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep 11 22:06:49 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sorry!
Message-ID: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>

Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
files to the entire mail list.

--Alan


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 21:03:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Recent findings
Message-ID: <199809120315.XAA10363@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Recent findings
> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 7:13 PM
> 
> I managed to pick up a Fora LP-386c mini-lunchbox (kinda like some of the
> Compaq's).  Dated 1989, so almost classic, and my first "F" computer!  
> 
> Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but
otherwise
> seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this? 
Inside,
> it has some interesting connectors.  There are some flat... hmmm..
plastic
> strips with traces on them (kinda like ultra-flat ribbon cables?) that go
> into what look like IDC connectors.  Only, you pull up on the top rim of
> the IDC-like things, and that releases the ends of the flat things.
> Surprised the heck out of me when I was (gently!) trying to pull the
whole
> thing off.  8^)  

Those are the same type of connectors that the keyboard on my PS/2 L40sx
uses.
> 
> Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
> power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
> would an RCA plug work? 
> 
> Lastly, but not least, is probably the coolest item I've found in a while
> -- A Frisbee that says XEROX PARC on it.  Very neat!
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
> 
> Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 22:09:04 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
Message-ID: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>

Hello everyone.

I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
(needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
(since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.  

as always, ThAnX in advance,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:40:29 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sorry!
References: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>
Message-ID: <35F9ED2D.E3F94083@cnct.com>

oajones wrote:
> 
> Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
> files to the entire mail list.

Well, some of us can deal with it philosophically -- I've got a 4P
myself, and while I've got Tandy's CP/M 3 for it, I've never actually
played with the Montezuma Micro version 2.2.  (As to when I'll have
_time_ is another story -- remember never to open a can of worms
except when you're actually on a fishing trip -- in a boat).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:47:51 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
References: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F9EEE6.EEBA0CF6@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
 
> I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
> motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
> looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
> (needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
> like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
> a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
> (since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.

Well, I'd offer the relatively gutted Compaq portable I got free at
the last Trenton festival, but I'm sort of in the middle of building
a TRS-80 Color Computer 3 into the beast.  (The 8088 board is a wall
decoration, wasn't worth fixing).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Fri Sep 11 22:54:15 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <35F9E4B1.AB31EC5D@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199809120252.VAA05915@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 23:04, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> The best assumption is
> that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
> "maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".

This is the sort of thing that always crosses my mind whenever I 
bring in a new piece of equipment and have to carry it in from the 
parking lot.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 23:42:52 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
References: <199809120252.VAA05915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com>

David Williams wrote:
> 
> On 11 Sep 98, at 23:04, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> > The best assumption is
> > that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
> > "maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".
> 
> This is the sort of thing that always crosses my mind whenever I
> bring in a new piece of equipment and have to carry it in from the
> parking lot.

In my neighborhood these days (in those days I was in Los Angeles,
a lovely town if Sacramento was plowed back into the swamp on which
it was built) in New Jersey, the locals remember how my current
wife took a baseball bat to to the guy crowbarring open the back
door -- he bruised her knee a bit, she put him out.  The local cops
were going to book her for child abuse (17 years old, 5'11", 190#),
but they eased up when inquiries brought out that when his folks
brought him with them from Brazil a decade back they forgot to
check him (and themselves) in with the INS.  They also tried to
confiscate the baseball bat, but she reminded one of the cops of
the things he used to do when she babysat him as a child.

A couple years back, when we were having part of the attic finished,
the building inspector noticed the number of computers and tried for
a bribe based on his (incorrect at the time) assumption that we must
be running a business out of the house.  Lisa went to high school
with the jerk.  That part was cleared up no problem.  (The bribe to
get the building permit was merely the way these things are done here
in Hudson County, the scale is relatively consistent).

Gods, but I want to get out of this hellhole and move to Wyoming.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Sep 11 23:53:09 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911214808.13836B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard drives
also of unknown condition.

Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
isn't something that I'd really want to ship.

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com



From rexstout at uswest.net  Sat Sep 12 00:51:00 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: PDP-11/84 & Cipher tape drive questions
Message-ID: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]>

Lets start with the PDP-11/84... What is that console distribution board
connected to the DB-25 port in the back? Remote power control, dumb
terminal or what? What's the pinout of the connector? And about
terminals... What do I need to hook up a dumb terminal? It'll be either a
VT-220(after a good cleaning of the keyboard and a switch or two replaced)
or WY-99GT. OK, when I turn on the system the DC on light turns on and the
LED's just show a boring "77" every time... What does that mean? Anyone
have a list of error codes for the 11/84?

And then Cipher... Got two of them actually, the nicer one is labeled as an
IBM 4968(goes with my IBM Series/1). The big noisy one says it's a Cipher
0920640-98-125OU. So, what kind of interface do I need to hook it up to my
11/84? And is there any easy way to use them with a PC or Mac? And while
I'm talking about drives, does anyone in the PDX area have any cheap or
free drives or Unibus cards laying around they don't need?

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 23:47:18 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
Message-ID: <199809120453.AAA24366@gate.usaor.net>

That would have been exactly what I would have needed, although I would
have needed the CRT, too.  

The mention of the 8088 board reminded me of something:

Is there any way to convert an XT keyboard to make it work with an AT?  If
so, how?

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: Portable
> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 11:47 PM
> 
> 
> Well, I'd offer the relatively gutted Compaq portable I got free at
> the last Trenton festival, but I'm sort of in the middle of building
> a TRS-80 Color Computer 3 into the beast.  (The 8088 board is a wall
> decoration, wasn't worth fixing).
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 11 23:56:34 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sun Machines for the Taking
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980911215634.006f1f60@ferrari.sfu.ca>

Hi All:

I am attempting to break up the logjam in the basement, and have the
following machines available to any interested parties:

- Sun 3/50;
- Sun 3/60.

Both are in working order, but the 3/60 has an inoperative CG4 frame
buffer. No matter, you can boot it off of the serial port.

No monitors, and you would have to supply a SCSI hard disk. Both can run
SunOS or NetBSD.

Free for the taking, limit one per person. I'd prefer you to pick up, but I
could be convinced to ship as long as you pay for it.

I also have a spare Sun 4/110, this one has a keyboard, mouse, and hard
drive, with NetBSD installed on it. I'm looking to recoup $100 for this
machine, however!

I'm located near Vancouver, BC.

Kevin


---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 23:50:53 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
Message-ID: <199809120503.BAA25509@gate.usaor.net>

Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
Model III?  Are they the same thing?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> 
> I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
drives
> also of unknown condition.
> 
> Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> 
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> 


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Sat Sep 12 00:21:47 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911214808.13836B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Wow!  Several responses in just a few minutes.

I'm not really looking for $$$ for these.  I'm looking to trade for
something smaller.  I've just aquired an original Next cube and need
Nextstep software on Magnito/optical.

An Apple ][ LCD panel would be nice <grin!>

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, George Rachor wrote:

> I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard drives
> also of unknown condition.
> 
> Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> 
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> 
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:20:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221819.15380D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler wrote:

> local router), a Quadra 610, and a Quadra 950; I had to suppress a chuckle
> (at myself), on visiting one of the links I found here (the Classic
> Computer show on the West Coast?) and seeing that the Q950 was included

Vintage Computer Festival.

> amongst the line of obsolete Macs. Oh, I know that it's obsolete, but it
> does my work quite well, for now, and I can't at the moment afford to
> upgrade to a PPC. (I paid big money for it, too.) The Q610 has a "classic"

Its not listed as being "obsolete", but it will be in the exhibition area.

Welcome.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:16:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221539.15380C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> Hmm brings up two questions:
> First: Is there already an Enterprise for display (Juhu Sa-a-am) ?

Nope.  I don't think I've ever even heard of this computer.

> Second: Will you be attending VCF ?

I think David said he might be.

> P.S.: Sam, answer quick, since I will do last Email-check in
>   about 2 hours.

I don't think this got to you in time but oh well, this will leave you
with more room on the plane back.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 12 00:33:06 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
References: <199809120503.BAA25509@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FA0792.9DE05B85@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
> Model III?  Are they the same thing?

If it is a 5,12,15,35 or 70Mb hard drive, it will work fine.  If it
is an 8.4 Mb drive, it will not.  If the drive case is about 18"
across, it is one of the former.  If the drive case is two or so
feet across, it is the latter [actually earlier] and is totally
incompatible.  As I recall, _all_ of the compatible drives had their
capacities labelled on the front of the drive -- it's been so long
that I forget whether the 8.4 drives were labeled with their size
or not.

Either way, salvage the the adapter card from the Model II, with the
cable and the connector that passes through the case.  Those I will
paying shipping plus a bit for untested.  And I'll accept the drives
-- if they're the 8.4 type, it is _critical_ to lock the heads
before shipping.

Oh, the primary and secondary drives are different, as the primary
contains the actual hard disk controller.  In either generation.
The board in the Model II is basically a bus adapter. 
> ----------
> > From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> > Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> >
> > I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> > The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> > the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
> drives
> > also of unknown condition.
> >
> > Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> > isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> >
> > =========================================================
> > George L. Rachor              george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> > Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> >

-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Sat Sep 12 00:40:33 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <35FA0792.9DE05B85@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911223943.13993A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

In this case they are 8.4 MByte drives and are about 18 inches across.

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> Jason Willgruber wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
> > Model III?  Are they the same thing?
> 
> If it is a 5,12,15,35 or 70Mb hard drive, it will work fine.  If it
> is an 8.4 Mb drive, it will not.  If the drive case is about 18"
> across, it is one of the former.  If the drive case is two or so
> feet across, it is the latter [actually earlier] and is totally
> incompatible.  As I recall, _all_ of the compatible drives had their
> capacities labelled on the front of the drive -- it's been so long
> that I forget whether the 8.4 drives were labeled with their size
> or not.
> 
> Either way, salvage the the adapter card from the Model II, with the
> cable and the connector that passes through the case.  Those I will
> paying shipping plus a bit for untested.  And I'll accept the drives
> -- if they're the 8.4 type, it is _critical_ to lock the heads
> before shipping.
> 
> Oh, the primary and secondary drives are different, as the primary
> contains the actual hard disk controller.  In either generation.
> The board in the Model II is basically a bus adapter. 
> > ----------
> > > From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> > <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> > > Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> > >
> > > I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> > > The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> > > the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
> > drives
> > > also of unknown condition.
> > >
> > > Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> > > isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> > >
> > > =========================================================
> > > George L. Rachor              george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> > > Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> > >
> 
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
> 



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep 12 00:44:07 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221539.15380C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809120439.XAA06042@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 22:16, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Nope.  I don't think I've ever even heard of this computer.

They're pretty interesting Z-80 based machines from Europe.  You 
can see one and a link to a wealth of info including an emulator on 
the "Wanted" list on my site.  Try:

http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/wtxttemp.html?enterprise

to check it out.

> 
> > Second: Will you be attending VCF ?
> 
> I think David said he might be.

I want to but at the moment unless something big happens it looks 
like work is going to send me to a different convention on the 
opposite coast.  Right now if I can it will be a last minute trip.  If 
not, well there is always 3.0. :-\

May have to settle for the audio tapes, of course that's if Sam ever 
gets around to the ones from 1.0.  Hey Sam, how about video 
tapes of the event?


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jason at xio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:55:03 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980911152237.5d57ce66@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980911225503.00737d4c@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>

At 04:13 PM 9/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>IIRC, Navarone made a video interface for (at least) the Atari ST -- plug
>your camcorder/vcr into the cart, plug the cart into the computer, and
>capture images.  Kinda like the Snappy thing you can get these days.

I'm pretty sure it's not a video interface of any sort. It's some sort of
cartridge passthrough with a single button on it.

	-jrs

_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep 12 01:16:57 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy & Profiles
Message-ID: <199809120512.AAA06071@trailingedge.com>

What is this, Murphy strikes again?  I moved my Apple /// so I 
could open it all up and insert the new SoftCard ///.  I have 2 profile 
hard drives and placed one on its side beside some bookshelves 
while I worked on the ///.  A few minutes later I hear a crash and 
look over at the shelf.  The middle shelf had dropped down and 
dumped everything on top of the profile knocking it over and burying 
it.  These shelves have been doing just fine for over 5 years, why 
now?  At least the SoftCard is in and working fine.  I now have 
CP/M installed and working with the other profile.  I now only have 
one slot left open, what else is available for the ///?  As for the 
other profile, I guess it is still ok.  I've never used it and I'm not sure 
if I want to use it on my ///.  You see, it has a hand written label on 
the front which says the Lisa Office System (scratched out) and 
below that MacWorks 3.0 12/16/85.  I can't decide if I want to 
format it and use it on my /// or save it in case I ever get a Lisa.  
Any way to copy off anything on it without a Lisa?  Could the Lisa 
format be read from a ///?  Ok, it's a shot in the dark.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 02:05:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809120439.XAA06042@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980912000438.15380K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> May have to settle for the audio tapes, of course that's if Sam ever 
> gets around to the ones from 1.0.  Hey Sam, how about video 
> tapes of the event?

Audio tapes for 1.0 and 2.0 will be available a few weeks after 2.0.  I'm
planning to film some segments of 2.0 to make a video.  Also, CNET and
ZDTV will be bringing camera crews, so you might catch some VCF 2.0
footage on future shows.  I'll make sure to notify everyone in advance
if/when they air.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 12 02:27:39 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...
Message-ID: <35FA226A.C5E3706A@bbtel.com>

Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
port on your PC.

http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From foxvideo at wincom.net  Sat Sep 12 06:19:27 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Sorry!
In-Reply-To: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980912071927.00695a9c@mail.wincom.net>

At 11:06 PM 9/11/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
>files to the entire mail list.
>
>--Alan
>
>
	Personally I was glad to get them.

					Regards

					Charlie Fox



From mark_k at iname.com  Sat Sep 12 07:46:36 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <yam7559.1837.3966064@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
>Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the
>C64 for as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the
>video cable (the one that splits into three RCA's, one for video
>and two for sound) with the video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice,
>sharp, black and white display, no color.

The C64 provides composite video, luminance, chrominance and audio on its DIN
connector.

The luminance and chrominance signals are what is nowadays known as S-video or
Y/C. The luminance is the brightness information (i.e., a monochrome video
signal), the chrominance is the colour information. By having the two signals
on separate wires rather than mixing them, picture quality is improved over
composite video.

Many modern TVs have S-video inputs; a 4-pin mini-DIN socket is used for this.
Commodore monitors use two phono sockets, marked L and C. It sounds like you
are using a cable designed for connecting a C64 to a Commodore monitor. This
will not directly work with your TV's composite video input. As you have found,
the best you can do is to get a monochrome picture by connecting the luminance
signal.

To get the best possible picture quality, buy a lead that has two phono sockets
on one end, and an S-video 4-pin mini-DIN connector on the other. You would
connect this to the L and C jacks of your C64 video lead, and the S-video port
on your TV. However, you may have trouble finding a ready-made lead like this;
perhaps building one yourself will be quicker.

If your TV does not have an S-video input, you'll need to get another lead that
uses the C64's composite video output instead. An A/V lead for the Sega Mega
Drive/Genesis 1 console *may* work.



>If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get (cruddy) color.

I think you mean using the RF output and a TV signal switch (as supplied with
most game consoles), not a modulator.


-- Mark



From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Sat Sep 12 08:31:58 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Sep 12, 98 00:42:52 am
Message-ID: <199809121331.JAA29071@shell.monmouth.com>

> > Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> A couple years back, when we were having part of the attic finished,
> the building inspector noticed the number of computers and tried for
> a bribe based on his (incorrect at the time) assumption that we must
> be running a business out of the house.  Lisa went to high school
> with the jerk.  That part was cleared up no problem.  (The bribe to
> get the building permit was merely the way these things are done here
> in Hudson County, the scale is relatively consistent).
> 
> Gods, but I want to get out of this hellhole and move to Wyoming.

Well, that's Hudson County for you.  I won't defend that at all.
It's not representative of the rest of the state though.  Move.
Anything North of I-287 is hell.

Bill

(Happy in Central New Jersey where that kind of @$#%^&* wouldn't be
tolerated).

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 12 08:36:04 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: MX test...
Message-ID: <199809121336.AA13697@world.std.com>


< > Can you guys ack this please?
< > 
< > If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...

Whoa!  You got my attention... as they say tell me more being I have a 
upwards of 7 of them running here. 

Allison



From bwit at pobox.com  Sat Sep 12 09:00:22 1998
From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Need help with TRS-80 Hard Drive
Message-ID: <01BDDE2B.C8163320.bwit@pobox.com>

Hello.

I have a "TRS-80 Five Meg Disk System" model 26-1130 that I'd like to use with a Model 4D.
The hard drive seems to power up fine but I have no cables to connect it to the Mod4.  In 
addition, the back of the hard drive appears to have a connector missing.  On the back of the
drive cabinet I see the following:

	Computer In:  empty opening, no cover
	Control Out: 34 pin male connector
	Data Out A: empty, metal cover over opening
	Data Out B: empty, metal cover over opening
	Data Out C: empty, metal cover over opening

Opening the drive case shows no obvious connector where a missing cable might attach.

If anyone can assist with information and/or parts please let me know.

TIA,
Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Withers                                                  Do or do not, there is no try.
bwit@pobox.com                                                                          Yoda
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 12 09:23:47 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Apple Computer Parts
Message-ID: <35FA83F3.6C00@bright.net>

It is my turn to clean out my basement.

Item                                      Quanity
------------------------------------      -------
Digicard, Network Controller Card         7
Tymac, PPC-100 Tackler                    2
Digicard, Modem                           2
Apple Monitor /// Model #A3M0039          1
Apple Disk Drive ][ Model #A2M0003        3
Apple Unidisk Model #A9M0104              1
Apple ][e (missing 2 keys on keyboard)    1
Apple ][ Plus                             2

If you are interested in any of these items please make an offer. I've
never used an Apple system. I collected these parts to build one
complete system but never got around to it. I don't know what this stuff
is worth. I hope someone out there can put this stuff to good use. No
reasonable offer will be refused.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 12 09:26:08 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tandy 1400 HD
Message-ID: <35FA8480.7DCA@bright.net>

I have a Tandy 1400 HD collecting dust in my basement. It has a power
supply problem and also the battery will need to be replaced. Perhaps
someone out there could use this for parts if nothing else. I am asking
$25 plus shipping charges. I have the books for it and the original
packing box.

--Alan


From heavy at ctesc.net  Sat Sep 12 10:23:07 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Recent findings
In-Reply-To: <199809120315.XAA10363@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <v04011701b22036a5cdba@[10.1.115.23]>

>> Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but
otherwise
>> seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this?

On the inside face, below the screen, there are two plastic pug; under
those, there are the star-shaped screws that Apple is fond of, but they are
really small, like #6 or #8. I had to really look for those bits. I believe
you also have to remove the keyboard and other things in order to separate
the screen assembly; it's been awhile.

>> Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
>> power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
>> would an RCA plug work?
>>
An RCA plug will not work unless they have types that I have never seen. I
actually tried to modify an RCA plug once, for that machine. The plus and
minus are both on the tip of the thing, and the external part of what looks
like an RCA plug is the frame ground. I have no idea where they found that
part. Your best bet is shopping for a Duo power supply, I've seen them
recently on eBay, and they are not expensive. I have an extra one, BTW.
Those supplies are neat, travel-ready; I think they work on anything from
about 90v to 250v input. Not spot-on about voltage out, but 12.5v should
work. You can also get a cigar lighter power supply for those models.

 Poor ascii art:
(-+?)(-+?)(frame grnd)
  |  |  --- ---'
<===|======|
        ---

I have a PB Duo 280c, which works fine, except that the active-matrix color
screen is broken. I also have a dock for it, so use it as a desktop
machine. This doesn't work for me, because I need it for carrying. Anyone
know how to find replacement screens for this model, that don't cost more
than the machine is worth? Either a color or grey-scale would do, thanks.

I also have a PB 140. I use a pencil eraser to clean the little ribbon
ends, but you probably already know that trick. -Jim
      "Recycleable" is the politically-correct word for "Trash"
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sat Sep 12 11:54:28 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: HP 3000s avail in CA.
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809120949.A16527-0100000@netcom3>


  Hello ListMembers..


  I have available for Immediate Adoption the following
Hewlett Packard stuff:

2 3000 systems and a 9144 backup device in one cabinet.
2 7914 hard drive units (one damaged mechanically)
1 2563a printer in very nice shape (serial I/O)

  These Items are in Malibu, CA and are free for the taking. I would 
prefer not to split up the load unless you are talking significant 
bux or trade for something I need Real Bad: (VAX 11/750 system; TE16 
w/formatter card for Unibus; Kennedy 9300 or vacuum door from same; 
MINC-11 cards; etc.)

  Due to weight and size, these things are not shippable. I can be 
bribed to deliver them in the SoCal area, but it would be Better if 
you came with a small truck or minivan and rescued them. Also, work 
logistics pretty much dictate that it must be a weekend rescue.

  Otherwise....     i don't wanna think about it   :(

  Please consider giving these lonely orphans the security and 
happiness of a loving home and some 110vac to munch on. I need the 
space for more DEC stuff.  Like that 11/750 I *know* you're hiding.

  Hint: I'll be home all weekend.........

Cheers

John



From red at bears.org  Sat Sep 12 12:47:35 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809121341070.28443-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, George Rachor wrote:

> I'm not really looking for $$$ for these.  I'm looking to trade for
> something smaller.  I've just aquired an original Next cube and need
> Nextstep software on Magnito/optical.

I've got copies of NEXTSTEP on MO through version 3.0 and while I haven't
any spare copies, I do have a few spare MOs.

What version were you looking for? I'd recommend 2.11 if it's an '030
cube.

ok
r.



From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 12 16:29:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809121341070.28443-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
exactly like the one in the brochure:
	http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/vixen.htm
For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the
floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
starts off with EXP.

Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has
one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?

-- Doug



From donm at cts.com  Sat Sep 12 16:43:25 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980912144111.29460B-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
> things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
> exactly like the one in the brochure:
> 	http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/vixen.htm
> For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the

They were officially known as the Osborne 4.

> floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
> horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
> starts off with EXP.

The drives orientation is nonstandard.  Can't comment on the S/N.
 
> Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has

I think that is nonstandard also.
						 - don

> one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?
> 
> -- Doug
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 12 15:50:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120100.VAA11942@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Sep 11, 98 09:00:44 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHwcq-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 12 17:36:24 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980912144111.29460B-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Don Maslin wrote:

> They were officially known as the Osborne 4.

Mine only says OSBORNE.  I suspect mine has a smaller display than the
production model -- it looks like a 5" diag.  If anybody else thinks they
have this same version, please let me know.  Otherwise, I'll start
bragging about it on my web page as the only surviving specimen!

OK, you twisted my arm, here are a couple of pix:
	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/osborne/vixen1.jpg
	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/osborne/vixen2.jpg

-- Doug



From thomas100 at home.com  Sat Sep 12 19:44:17 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

The most alarming thing I used to enjoy about an 030 cube is that  
you can boot and run NeXTStep, a Windows-NT counterpart, in 4  
megabytes of RAM.

Not that you'd want to... though you can set one up as a stable  
lightweight network file server and such.  I ran Windows Networking  
(Samba), Columbia Appletalk, NFS and web server, perl and CGI  
effectively on a 16 mb machine for quite awhile.  There are also  
various cron-based things you can do with the DSP chip and audio that  
take up only moderate amounts CPU bandwidth that I did.  All in all  
these machines are a heck of a lot of fun not only as a hobbyist  
machine but also in various useful roles.

While my TRS-80 Model 16 sits in the corner, the NeXT machines both  
at office and at home are working hard and are on the net.

And it looks like I'll be picking up another cube on Monday.
Joy of joys!  YIPPEEEE!

BTW... about hooking older machines to the net.  I've heard that  
someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.

Thomas


From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 12 19:11:55 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Need help with TRS-80 Hard Drive
References: <01BDDE2B.C8163320.bwit@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <35FB0DCB.4FF7BE53@cnct.com>

Bob Withers wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I have a "TRS-80 Five Meg Disk System" model 26-1130 that I'd like to use with a Model 4D.
> The hard drive seems to power up fine but I have no cables to connect it to the Mod4.  In
> addition, the back of the hard drive appears to have a connector missing.  On the back of the
> drive cabinet I see the following:
> 
>         Computer In:  empty opening, no cover
>         Control Out: 34 pin male connector
>         Data Out A: empty, metal cover over opening
>         Data Out B: empty, metal cover over opening
>         Data Out C: empty, metal cover over opening
> 
> Opening the drive case shows no obvious connector where a missing cable might attach.
> 
> If anyone can assist with information and/or parts please let me know.

The cable is a piece of cake to build.  Straight through from the
edge connector under the back of the 4D to the header connector
labeled "Computer In".  The other connectors on the back of the
drive are for connecting up to three additional drives to the
controller built into the one you have.  (The short cables from the
controller to the empty data out cutouts came with the secondary
drives.  They too are easy to fabricate.)

The connector under the 4D _should_ be labeled expansion bus or
something like that -- I never did much with the 4D, they came out
about the time I left the company.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fmc at reanimators.org  Sat Sep 12 19:27:05 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:36:24 -0500 (CDT)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <199809130027.RAA11175@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote:
> Mine only says OSBORNE.  I suspect mine has a smaller display than the
> production model -- it looks like a 5" diag.  If anybody else thinks they
> have this same version, please let me know.  Otherwise, I'll start
> bragging about it on my web page as the only surviving specimen!

That is a find.  If you can find the Kilobaud that has the photos of
Adam Osborne showing off the Vixen, you will note that the one he is
showing is configured like that.

-Frank McConnell


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 20:55:43 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980912184040.15433A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
> things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
> exactly like the one in the brochure:

I went downstairs to compare mine, saw how much of a hassle it would be to
dig it out, then turned around and headed right back upstairs.

> For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the
> floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
> horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
> starts off with EXP.

I'm pretty certain mine said "Vixen".

Ok, my curiousity getting the best of me, I went downstairs and, risking
great bodily injury and pulling muscles, I managed to dig out my Vixen
while nearly destroying multiple machines in the process.

> Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has
> one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?

Mine has the GPIB port.  On the front, underneath the screen, mine has a
badge that say "O4 Vixen".  My drives are vertically oriented.  My serial
number is "FR000 001632 with the "FR000" being part of the label and the
"001632" being stamped on.

I would say it would be a reasonable assumption that you have an early
prototype.  Your case must be sufficiently different as I can't see
how you could rotate the drives horizontally on this.  What is the rest of
the serial number?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jhfine at idirect.com  Sat Sep 12 23:14:20 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Available: PC Magazine
References: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]>
Message-ID: <35FB469C.284F3BDB@idirect.com>

Hi  Collectors,

I have to start cleaning things and the most obvious
right now are about 6 feet of PC Magazine from
about 1988 to 1994.

I also will be putting a TRS 80 Model III with 2 floppy
drives in the pot.

Not finally - only the beginning, there is a lot of DEC
QBus stuff I must sort through.

If any of this is worth anything, is there anything that
is worth trading?  Like some DEC Qbus boards
or a PC tape drive for a W95 system - I need tape
backup.

Even boxes of floppies - 3 1/2" HD 1.44 MBytes
or 5 1/4" DSDD 360 KBytes
or 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MBytes
or Zip Cartridges 100 MBytes

The last thing I want to see is for the stuff to go in a
dumpster.

I am in Toronto.  Magazines are very heavy and local
pickup would be best.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine



From spc at armigeron.com  Sat Sep 12 21:14:01 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com> from "Thomas Pfaff" at Sep 12, 98 05:44:17 pm
Message-ID: <199809130214.WAA20500@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Thomas Pfaff once stated:
> 
> BTW... about hooking older machines to the net.  I've heard that  
> someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
> Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
> up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.

  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the C-64
(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP and
ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and uncompressed
SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under UNIX)
version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I think UDP
stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable by
definition if I recall correctly).

  -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
	6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
	have two Tandy 6000s ... )





From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 01:20:27 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: UDP on 1970's micros  [was Re: NeXT]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com> from "Thomas Pfaff" at Sep 12, 98 05:44:17 pm
Message-ID: <199809130617.WAA03186@next.ireadyco.com>

The neat thing about using a PIC chip is that it's external... so  
with a little extra logic you can route it through either a parallel  
or serial port.

UDP is User Datagram Protocol... it's good enough that you can write  
simple clients and servers to transfer data.  Many servers can be  
switched from TCP to UDP services on any unix machine or a tiny  
daemon can be written to do the routing.  So you could access a web  
server on the net via a TRS-80 this way.

Of course it would be nice to have full TCP/IP available but it's  
considerably more work.
There is a stack for the C64.  I'd like something that is portable,  
a widget that plugs on the back of a variety of early PCs.  Something  
like a box with a Z180 board, with serial and ethernet on board  
would be very nice for a full network implementation.

Ironically the upstart company I helped "startup" does all of this  
in a gate level implementation [no processor required] but it's  
available only as an embeddable logic core for integration into  
things like cellular phones and kids toys.

Anyway, UDP is good enough as long as you do checksums on the data  
that comes through.  Obviously you couldn't run a web server using  
UDP very well.  TCP/IP would be more fun because as an exercise you  
could host a web server on computers from the 1970's.

Also if you did TCP/IP, IP, ARP and PPP all in software on a 1970's  
micro you probably couldn't do a whole lot else in RAM.  However, a  
dedicated embedded SBC between your
Trs-80 and your Sun Sparcstation could allow your Trs-80 to do quite  
a bit and would simplify data transfers to and from the net, etc.   
It could be made simple too... type in a small BASIC program to  
program your IP address and bootstrap your network connection.  It  
could be that easy [no floppies required].

I mentioned the PIC controller with UDP first because they are small  
and egg-stremely cheap.

Thomas


Begin forwarded message:


  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the C-64
(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP and
ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and uncompressed
SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under UNIX)
version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I  
think UDP
stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable by
definition if I recall correctly).



From gram at cnct.com  Sun Sep 13 00:54:05 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
References: <199809130214.WAA20500@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: <35FB5DFD.D0179CF9@cnct.com>

Captain Napalm wrote:

>   -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
>         6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
>         have two Tandy 6000s ... )

Not especially common, not especially rare.  Trouble is, the
software for the Model II (there were never Xenix drivers for
Arcnet for the Tandy 6000) is incompatible with anybody else's
Arcnet software, even Tandy's Vianet which connected Tandy and
other PCs in a peer-to-peer network (though at least the Tandy
2000 got in on that one).  An Arcnet card in a Model 2 or 12
or in a 16 or 6000 in Z-80 mode will only talk to others of its
own kind.  And Ghod only knows where any copies of the server
software might be (Model 2 Arcnet was _not_ peer-to-peer).

About the best way to connect a Tandy 68k Xenix system to the
world is through a serial link to a Linux box.  As I've done.
Hopefully when I finally have a permanent link from my Linux
communication server to the Internet, it will be possible for
folks to login to my 6000HD (and one of my AT&T 7300s) from a
secured telnet session to Linux and the old cu command (or
maybe minicom).

I suppose it might be possible to somehow port slip to Tandy
Xenix.  I am not capable of doing so, however.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 13 08:44:43 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
Message-ID: <19980913134444.14361.qmail@hotmail.com>





So, let's say this were ported to a C128 or an upgraded 64. Would this
allow one to access the 'net?
As for ARCnet cards, yes, they're quite common in corporate and
government places, along with token ring (I believe IBM supported
these two, but not ethernet). I may have a couple.
>> someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
>> Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
>> up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.
>
>  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the 
C-64
>(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP 
and
>ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
>nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and 
uncompressed
>SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under 
UNIX)
>version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I think 
UDP
>stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable 
by
>definition if I recall correctly).
>
>  -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
>	6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
>	have two Tandy 6000s ... )
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 10:16:56 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: RE-PC Finds
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913082535.kyrrin@jps.net>

        For those in or near the Seattle area, RE-PC has turned up some
pretty cool stuff.

        First, some intriguing VMEBus systems. From what I can tell,
they were made by Charles River Data Systems and, although they may not
be terribly useful as a system in their current state, the VME backplane
is very much an industry standard and can be adapted to just about any
VME cards you might want to plug into it.

        They also have a pile of Cipher 9-track tape drives. These are
the front-loading 880 series, 1600/3200 density, Pertec interface. I've
looked over several of them, and most look like they've had barely any
use at all (I picked one up yesterday to repair another I already have).

        And, if you want a rack to put such goodies into, they've got a
blortload of retired five-foot high Sun racks. Although wider on the
outside than the norm, all appear to be standard 19" on the inside
rails. Just about all of 'em are in clean shape, and going for around
$50 per.

        I think, last time I looked, they wanted no more than $20/unit
for the tape drives, and I don't think the VME systems would be horribly
expensive either. If interested, give a call to the Tukwila store at
(206) 575-8737. Ask for Eric Meiney, tell him I referred you, and you're
off and running.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 08:16:56, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 13:00:40 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
Message-ID: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>

For anyone in the Portland area I just met a most interesting Computer
Recycler.  Unlike the standard Horror stories I hear, he's working out of
an apartment complex he apparently runs.  He's got a ton of stuff
squirreled away, and would rather sell to people that will reuse it, but if
that doesn't work out, or if he doesn't think he can resell it, it gets
recycled.

Stuff I saw:
	IBM System III Model 50
	A very interesting little Tek terminal on it's own stand
	A lot of Apollo Domain
	A lot of HP stuff including an interesting rack mounted system with,
		a 9-track drive.
	Sun stuff (I've got a friend that bought a complete Sparc 10 system
from
	him)
	More PC stuff than you can shake a stick a
	Some NeXT stuff (which I got most or all of)

Stuff I got:
	Some tape drives, mostly DAT and an old 8mm (think I cleaned him
out of
		DAT
	Toshba CD-ROM (My Alpha loves it, and the DAT I hooked up)
	NeXT B&W Turbo slab system/32Mb RAM/1Gb HD/keyboard/mouse/monitor
		haven't tried it yet, so no idea how it works.  Also no
idea if
		it has an OS on it
	NeXT MO drive

I let him know that there are people looking for a lot of the stuff he
didn't seem to think anyone would want.  A good example being Amiga and
Atari systems.  I've also asked him to let me know when any DEC stuff shows
up.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Sun Sep 13 12:17:23 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
References: <199809130702.AAA22462@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35FBFE24.EAE70ED@goldrush.com>

> Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...

 
> Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
> hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
> port on your PC.
> 
> http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html

There has been some discussion on this in the CBM Hacker's maillist about the
newer parallel ports not being able to handle the voltage levels used by the
Commodore's IEC.  Here is a copy of one of the latest in the chain:

> Subject: Re: New X1541 standard
>    From: "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> 
> Hi Ruud,
> 
> >New X1541-cable,
> >
> >A lot of people happily use the X1541-cable to connect their PC with their
> >C= equipment. I was one of them until one day my PC started to smoke. I
> >opened my PC and found out that my I/O-card had gone to the moon. From that
> >day on I used X1541 only in combination with an old-fashion all-TTL-ICs
> >card and was happy again.
> 
> Happily I gone into that conclusion in very early time :-)
> 
> >When soldering the cable I instantly knew there was something fishy about
> >it because I knew the lines of the IEC-bus were used to transport signals
> >in two directions while the LPT-port had no line capable of doing this.
> 
> And the authors of X1541 supported programs doesn't mention risk came with it.
> 
> >The problem is that more and more users, including myself, have mother-
> >boards with an onboard LPT-port and no hair on my head thinks of it using
> >this port for things like X1541. It is easy to say to buy an extra card for
> >this purpose but I also have no confidence in these as they are fitted with
> >VLSI-chips as my I/O-card was.
> 
> >The hardware:
> >
> >There are two directions to go:
> >1) using transistors, resistors etc.
> >2) using TTL ICs
> 
> Or
> 
>  3) Use resistors in range 100-200 Ohms, so risk could be minimized (but not
>     resolved) and programs should support that little modification :-).
> 
> >Another idea is to use pin 10, Acknowledge, as input for the ATN-signal
> >because this input is capable of generating an interrupt. This can be an
> >advantage when using the PC as diskdrive for an C64.
> 
> I can remember that some cards won't like correctly generate interrupts.
> 
> >Extra idea:
> >
> >The datalines of LPT-port are not used. How about connecting them to the
> >userport for 8 bit parallel transfers?
> 
> I already connected and works perfectly.
> 
> >For the old ports this can only be used for reading but for bidirectional
> >ports.... (And I rebuild an old one :-) )
> 
> Done. What about my version?
> 
>  http://members.tripod.com/~Frank_Kontros/easyport/cable.gif
> 
> OK! Needs bi-directional port, but simple.
> 
> >The consequence is that to use this feature the kernal has to be changed.
> 
> Changed successfully. Not completed, but the whole serial protocol emulated by
> parallel way, fastload/save/verify, DOS WEDGE, F-keys.
> 
> >Yvo Nelemans wrote Server64 and he wrote it in Turbo Pascal :-). He stopped
> >with the devellopment and I have decided to resume with this project after
> >getting his permission. Server64 is meant to use the PC as diskdrive for
> >the C64. Unfortunally it also is as slow as a standard diskdrive in
> >combination with a standard C64.
> 
> I wrote it in asm, so you can compare the speedz. Just only 10 native mode drives
> emulated and a 256K REU, but in future ... anything possible.
> 
> >My questions to you are:
> >1) does anybody have detailed protocol specifications of a fastloader only
> >using the IEC-cable (example EXOS V3) and/or its sourcecodes?
> >2) the same for a parallel fastloader (like SpeedDos)?
> 
> In my opininon there are no fastloader specifications at all. All transfer
> operations should be maximally synchronized. There are general rules, but
> no specifications. Isn't you meant the burst protocol specifications, used
> in 1571/81 drives?
> 
> Regards,
> Frank

Thought I should pass it along.  :)

P.S. Subscription info for CBM Hackers list is on my web-page - see link below.
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 12:25:09 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913102918.kyrrin@jps.net>

        While at RE-PC in Seattle yesterday, I saw that they're working
on getting a complete color NeXT system ready to sell. As near as I can
tell, this is the 'Pizza Box' configuration with 32 megs RAM. I don't
know what size hard drive it has as it had been taken home by one of
the guys who was going to load the NeXT OS on it.

        If interested, give a call to the Seattle store at (206)
623-9151. Ask for Maurice or Jeff and tell them I referred you.

        Best of luck!


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 10:25:09, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Sun Sep 13 12:40:45 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: C64
References: <199809130702.AAA22462@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35FC039E.48CA1FAE@goldrush.com>

> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Subject: Re: C64 video
> 
> > 
> > I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
> > composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
> > speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
> > require a tv?

Control-G Does not produce any noise on the 64.  There are no sound routines
(except to clear the SID registers at start-up) in the 64 ROMs (I think they
were rushed on putting the 64 to market; later they released Super Expander
and Simon's BASIC which offered sound commands.)  I usually use a game
cartridge to check the 64's sound, video and joystick ports.  Jumpman Junior
seems to be my favored one (mainly because it does not rely on much of the
KERNAL/BASIC ROMs in it's operation.)

And yes, the Genesis A/V cable is compatible with the 64 (I've used the same
cable on both units).
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From djenner at halcyon.com  Sun Sep 13 13:18:05 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
Message-ID: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>

I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
one card with:
 - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
 - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
 - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
 - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.

The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.

Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
a card?

Thanks,
Dave


From kozmik at wave.home.com  Sun Sep 13 14:00:49 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
In-Reply-To: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
References: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FC16612EE.F652KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:09:04 -0400
"Jason Willgruber" <roblwill@usaor.net> wrote:

> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
> motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
> looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
> (needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
> like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
> a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
> (since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.  
>

I own an old P70, which is a 386-20 based lunchbox. If this is what you
were referring to, I don't think you'll be able to change this into
anything other then what it is. I have replaced the 386 with a TI486slc
chip, but thats all I have been able to do with it.

This is unless you can figure out a way to drive the gas plasma vga
screen. Then you could probably put in another motherboard. 

A better thing to do would be to find the rarer P75 (486 based), and
then put a pentium overdrive in there. This will be expensive though,
since P75's are rare, and MCA cards are also rare and because of this
they all can be expensive.

Please ignore this message if you were talking about those REALLY large 
fullsize portables, that had crt in them.

I got my P70 for $100 (canadian), and was offered one with a dead HD for
$50....so that should give you a ball park on price. 

Oh if you know of a way to drive the proprietary gas plasma screen,
please tell me, I'd love to upgrade mine. 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
    


From kozmik at wave.home.com  Sun Sep 13 14:10:50 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com> <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <35FC18BA3C9.F653KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Sat, 12 Sep 98 17:44:17 -0700
Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The most alarming thing I used to enjoy about an 030 cube is that  
> you can boot and run NeXTStep, a Windows-NT counterpart, in 4  
> megabytes of RAM.
>

I missed alot of this thread, but could you please explain how the
Nextstep operating system is related to NT? 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sun Sep 13 14:43:10 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Sorcerer Serial Number Decode
Message-ID: <199809131838.NAA07277@trailingedge.com>

While digging through my Exidy Sorcerer doc, I noticed a little 
paragraph in the technical manul which tells how to read the 
Sorcerer's serial number.  I'm sending this in case other Exidy 
owners want to check their systems.

---QUOTE---
"The first five digits of the serial number give the date of 
manufacturer. The next several digits are specific to the individual 
unit, and then, if you have a Sorcerer 2, there are the letters II. 
Next comes the voltage designation.  For example, serial number 
10299 528 II 220V indicates a Sorcerer 2, manufactured on 
10/29/79, unit number 528, of 220 volts."
---END QUOTE---

Mine is 03070 0085 110v so made on 03/07/80 I guess.  Funny 
thing is mine doesn't have the II to indicate it is a Sorcerer 2 but all 
the doc and looking at the mobo inside seems to indicate it is a 2.  
Wonder if the original owner swapped it at some point?  It does list 
a model number of DP1000-2.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jason at xio.com  Sun Sep 13 14:45:28 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
In-Reply-To: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>


I had a multi-I/o card that did 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 game, SuperVGA
(Cirrus Logic 5424 I think), IDE and floppy all on one card. But it was a
VLB card. I used it in my 486SLC I had at the time. I don't remember who
made it. It was "generic" -- no name printed on the card, and all of the
large number of jumpers where labelled "JPx" so it was quite difficult to
reconfigure without the manual.

	-jrs

At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
>one card with:
> - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
> - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
> - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
> - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.
>
>The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
>would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
>and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.
>
>Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
>I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
>a card?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 17:11:30 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <199809132208.OAA03755@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

You didn't miss that much.

Windows NT was essentially patterned after NeXTStep, though it still  
has a way to go in order to catch up.  Assuming you believe that  
dynamic binding is an inevitable innovation and DLLs are the  
brain-dead broken mess they are, NT still has a long way to go to  
catch up to where NeXTStep was.  There are other issues as well that  
push NT back to the cro-magon era, but dynamic binding is the issue  
that always sticks in my head since it yields overall improvements in  
application performance and reliability at the same time.

Thomas


----

_someone said:_

I missed alot of this thread, but could you please explain how the
Nextstep operating system is related to NT?

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm





From heavy at ctesc.net  Sun Sep 13 16:14:00 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>
References: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b221e3d3bce0@[10.1.115.9]>

I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone
knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, I'd
appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim

COMPUTER HAIKU

Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced
error messages in haiku...


	A file that big?
	It might be very useful.
	But now it is gone.


	The Web site you seek
	cannot be located but
	endless others exist.


	Chaos reigns within.
	Reflect, repent, and reboot.
	Order shall return.


	ABORTED effort:
	Close all that you have.
	You ask far too much.


	First snow, then silence.
	This thousand dollar screen dies
	so beautifully.


	With searching comes loss
	and the presence of absence:
	"My Novel" not found.


	The Tao that is seen
	Is not the true Tao, until
	You bring fresh toner.


	Windows NT crashed.
	I am the Blue Screen of Death.
	No one hears your screams.


	Stay the patient course
	Of little worth is your ire
	The network is down


	A crash reduces
	your expensive computer
	to a simple stone.


	Yesterday it worked
	Today it is not working
	Windows is like that


	Three things are certain:
	Death, taxes, and lost data.
	Guess which has occurred.


	You step in the stream,
	but the water has moved on.
	This page is not here.


	Out of memory.
	We wish to hold the whole sky,
	But we never will.


	Having been erased,
	The document you're seeking
	Must now be retyped.


	Rather than a beep
	Or a rude error message,
	These words: "File not found." >


	Serious error.
	All shortcuts have disappeared.
	Screen. Mind. Both are blank.


Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen
(tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or
just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I
appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to
another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>
             "I wish I was deep, instead of just macho."
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 17:17:59 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
Message-ID: <199809132215.OAA03763@next.ireadyco.com>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 13 17:12:25 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
In-Reply-To: <35FC16612EE.F652KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913170551.30472C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Dominique Cormann wrote:

> A better thing to do would be to find the rarer P75 (486 based), and
> then put a pentium overdrive in there. This will be expensive though,
> since P75's are rare, and MCA cards are also rare and because of this
> they all can be expensive.

I just brought home two of the rare P75's (aka 8573-161) yesterday.  I'm
willing to trade one of them away for something equally as rare and
interesting.  These are nice usable vintage boxen.  I think the 8573 was
intro'd in 1990 (OK, not quite 10 years old), has a gas plasma display,
built-in SCSI, and two full-length + 2 1/2-length MCA slots.  I think they
sold for close to $10K when new, which explains their rarity.

-- Doug




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 17:28:10 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809131513.A23751-0100000@netcom5>


  This is an open letter to my Northern Brother-in-Scrap, Bruce 
Lane, 'cause I know he's done this...  and I thought maybe others 
will have (or soon have) these questions too...

   Okay..  I realize now that all of my 20+ years of computer 
experience has been on disk-based systems... and I am having some 
fundamental-concept problems in understanding the basics of Tape, as 
it is implemented under VMS (and maybe RT-11 too, I'll burn that 
bridge when I get to it).

   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 
have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals 
VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and 
allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted, 
allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made 
a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created 
a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to 
the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the 
HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get 
are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.

  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
the directories are empty when I copy them back...

  I am lacking in the basic understanding of how the tape system 
works, so I thought to ask my Firends and Listmembers.


  Cheers

John



From william at ans.net  Sun Sep 13 18:36:55 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193328.8430A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> 	IBM System III Model 50

I know of no S/3 model 50 - just the 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 15.

Any chance you could describe this machine? S/3s tend to be rather big -
but then they really are just stripped down S/360s.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net




From william at ans.net  Sun Sep 13 18:45:56 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110325.DAA07254@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193911.8430C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> 220 volts, single phase is the power needed. Don't think they can be set to
> 115v. but I could check the hardware manual I got stashed in some box
> around here that is not yet unpacked. 
> 
> The 3262's are however on wheels which would make moving somewhat easier.
> Mr. Donzelli is one of the listmembers who knows IBM Big Iron. He might
> chime-in on the other components.

Well, I was not part of either of the RCS/RI System 3x moving parties.
Sorry.

Looking at the S/34 however, it looks like taking heavy bits out might
just be a real pain in the butt.

One interesting chunk of trivia is that IBM actually put some thought into
deciding how big to make these machines. They had their engineers make the
box so it could be moved around inside "standard" office building
elevators, as they did not want to screw themselves out of sales just
because of a few inches.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From wpe101 at banet.net  Sun Sep 13 19:10:33 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
References: <Pine.3.89.9809131513.A23751-0100000@netcom5>
Message-ID: <35FC5EF8.D37A27ED@banet.net>

Distant memory time... As far as copying files to the tape, did you
initialize it prior to MOUNTing it?
$ INIT MSA0: TEST      !TEST being the volume name assigned to the tape.

$ MOUNT MSA0: TEST    !tape "mounts", and is given the logical name
"TEST".
$ COPY DUA0:[MYDIRECTORY]FILENAME.EXT TEST:FILENAME.EXT  !file spec is
an example.......

Allison, PLEASE correct me on this!!!!!!

If memory serves me, if you do a DIR of TEST: you should see your file
in the [0,0] directory.
I think to preserve the directory structure, you have to mount the tape
/FOREIGN, and use
"BACKUP".
I haven't done this for about 5 years, so, "your mileage may vary"..
Hope this helps.. As far as
RT-11, sorry... Don't have my books handy, and I know the list'll have
the answer long before
I find them...


Will




John Lawson wrote:

>   This is an open letter to my Northern Brother-in-Scrap, Bruce
> Lane, 'cause I know he's done this...  and I thought maybe others
> will have (or soon have) these questions too...
>
>    Okay..  I realize now that all of my 20+ years of computer
> experience has been on disk-based systems... and I am having some
> fundamental-concept problems in understanding the basics of Tape, as
> it is implemented under VMS (and maybe RT-11 too, I'll burn that
> bridge when I get to it).
>
>    On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I
> have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals
> VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and
> allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted,
> allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made
> a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created
> a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to
> the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the
> HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get
> are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.
>
>   I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the
> HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but
> the directories are empty when I copy them back...
>
>   I am lacking in the basic understanding of how the tape system
> works, so I thought to ask my Firends and Listmembers.
>
>   Cheers
>
> John



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 19:10:55 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913201055.d5@trailing-edge.com>

>   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 
>have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals 
>VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and 
>allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted, 
>allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made 
>a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created 
>a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to 
>the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the 
>HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get 
>are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.

Some very important questions that need to be answered:

1.  Which version of VMS?

2.  What commands did you use?  The *exact* commands, with all qualifiers.

You know, it is *very* hard for us to tell what you did wrong unless
you tell us exactly what you did!  It sounds like you may have
very well mounted the tape /FOREIGN, in which case there is no
file name associated with each file.  (See the ANSI labeled tape
spec for more details about what /FOREIGN isn't doing for you :-) )

>  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
>HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
>the directories are empty when I copy them back...

Again, what commands?  If you MOU/FOR the tape, by default there
is no "file name" associated with each file, and on a copy back you
will get files named "." (apparently what you are seeing).

When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.

Finally, don't forget "/LOG" if you want to know what each
COPY command is really doing for you :-).

As a basic test of ANSI labeled tape functionality under VMS, try this:

INIT MSA0: TEST  (if it complains, use /OVER=(ID,ACCESS) )
MOUNT MSA0: TEST
COPY LOGIN.COM MSA0:
DIR MSA0:
COPY MSA0:LOGIN.COM []LOGIN2.COM

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 21:05:20 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193328.8430A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <v04011709b22229daa359@[207.220.32.98]>

>> 	IBM System III Model 50
>
>I know of no S/3 model 50 - just the 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 15.
>
>Any chance you could describe this machine? S/3s tend to be rather big -
>but then they really are just stripped down S/360s.
>
>William Donzelli
>william@ans.net

It was mostly buried, so I couldn't see what it looked like, it was the
size of a large Xerox machine.  All I could see was the front, I couldn't
see the top or sides.  My memory isn't always the best so I might have the
name wrong.  I'd estimate about 5 feet wide, by 4 feet high, and 2-3 feet
deep (note these are really rough estimates).

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 20:19:40 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Free 19-inch rack - DC area
Message-ID: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>

I've got an ex-Systems Industries 19" computer rack
available.  It's got about 60" of vertical mounting space available 
and a nice-built in surge protector and power distribution system.
Very, very heavy duty construction (weight empty is about 200 lbs.)
with big casters on the bottom.  Sides and top are removable.

Terms: first person to show up with a vehicle capable of carrying
it away gets it - after they help me pull the Fuji 2444 currently
residing in it.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 21:31:21 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
Message-ID: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>

As the subject says I've got a couple of REALLY basic questions.  I picked
up my first NeXT box yesterday, and am getting ready to start playing with
it.  Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
rather flimsy for that.  Also is there anything I should be aware of when
initially powering the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network
prior to powering on?

Basically I've got enough experience with OPENSTEP 4.2 x86 to know that I
want to ask some really stupid questions prior to trying anything :^)

Oh, and what's the story with the DSP port on the back?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 20:41:12 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
In-Reply-To: <980913201055.d5@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809131822.A19879-0100000@netcom20>




 Thank you Tim... I have written a 7" reel of tape with the word 
"D'OH!" several thousand times, and I am now wearing it as I type. ;}

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote:

> >   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 

  (clip)

> 
> Some very important questions that need to be answered:
> 
> 1.  Which version of VMS?
> 

      5.4    maj id=1,    min id=0

> 2.  What commands did you use?  The *exact* commands, with all qualifiers.
> 
> You know, it is *very* hard for us to tell what you did wrong unless
> you tell us exactly what you did! 

  You know, I wasn't exactly looking for precise commands (re-read 
my post, just general info and 'why not try this' type of stuff. 
More the algorithmic side...  how tape is logically different from 
disk.. to help me understand where the appropriate command apply... 
but I will copy herewith according to your wishes:

> It sounds like you may have
> very well mounted the tape /FOREIGN, in which case there is no
> file name associated with each file.  (See the ANSI labeled tape
> spec for more details about what /FOREIGN isn't doing for you :-) )

  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?
> 
> >  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
> >HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
> >the directories are empty when I copy them back...
> 
> Again, what commands?  If you MOU/FOR the tape, by default there
> is no "file name" associated with each file, and on a copy back you
> will get files named "." (apparently what you are seeing).
> 
  OK: from the console pile o' paper....

$MOUNT/FOREIGN MSA0:
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, RTSIG mounted on _MSA0:
$DIR MSA0:
 and dir fails for (now) obvious reasons.
$SHOW MAGTAPE
_Device: MSA0:

Magtape MSA0:, device type TS11, is online, allocated, deallocate 
     on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-
     oriented device, error logging is enabled.


   Error count    2   Operations completed        41

  and so forth... I'm not gonna transcribe all this, but it does 
report:   Volume Label 'RTSIG ' Density 1600 Format Normal-11

$CREATE/DIRECTORY [TEST]
$DIR TEST
%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found
$COPY MSA0:*.* [TEST]
(tape runs; HD led blinks, I enjoy the music for 6 or 7 minutes, then)
$ DIR [TEST]
.;10   .;9   .;8   .;7
.;6    .;5   .;4   .;3
.;2    .;1

  
(Remeber, Folks, I am learning this as I go along, going from the 
manual to the help files to the console and back again... this took 
hours.)
 

> When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
> in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
> Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.

 Easier kept in mind when the mind in question actually has *access*
to the aforementioned document; this one does not. :(    (refer to
original post. I have only the VMS User's Guide and the "help" system
on the machine. I also scanned thru my RT-11 Orange Wall, but didn't 
find it in there, either..  I will look again when off-line.


>
> 
Finally, don't forget "/LOG" if you 
want to know what each > COPY command is really doing for you :-).
> 

  I didn't look at this one.. I will experiment.

> As a basic test of ANSI labeled tape functionality under VMS, try this:
> 
> INIT MSA0: TEST  (if it complains, use /OVER=(ID,ACCESS) )
> MOUNT MSA0: TEST
> COPY LOGIN.COM MSA0:
> DIR MSA0:
> COPY MSA0:LOGIN.COM []LOGIN2.COM
> 

  Will try this a bit later, (after dinner).


>  Tim Shoppa                        

  Also, Tim... if DEC Hard Drive test-sets are of interest to you, I 
have three which are taking up Space...  they are looking to be 
adopted for the price of shipping...  e-mail me privately and we can 
go from There.

  Cheers and Thanks

  John

 


From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 13 20:50:48 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <199809140150.AA05173@world.std.com>

First:
  $ help copy
  $ help backup
  $ help files

under vms should be helpful as it nominally goes down to examples.

< Distant memory time... As far as copying files to the tape, did you
< initialize it prior to MOUNTing it?
< $ INIT MSA0: TEST      !TEST being the volume name assigned to the tape

That is correct.

< $ MOUNT MSA0: TEST    !tape "mounts", and is given the logical name
< "TEST".

It's mount/foreign msa0:

< $ COPY DUA0:[MYDIRECTORY]FILENAME.EXT TEST:FILENAME.EXT  !file spec is
< an example.......

$backup/log/image DUA0: MSA0:test.bak/sav

< 
< /FOREIGN, and use
< "BACKUP".

Yep!

A tape from a PDP-11 would ahve to be mounted foreign as it's a non 
files-11 format.

Allison



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 13 21:19:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Many of you have seen the postings of Sam Ismail on this list, but few
know that these posts are actually generated by an artifically intelligent
robot named "Lisam" that resides at WeirdStuff warehouse in Sunnyvale. 
I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
community not far from WeirdStuff. 

Prepare yourself; this won't be pretty.

	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/people/ismail.jpg

-- Doug



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:31:33 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913223133.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>A tape from a PDP-11 would ahve to be mounted foreign as it's a non 
>files-11 format.
>Allison

Gees, Allison, I've been interchanging tapes between VMS and RT-11 and RSX-11
for years and I don't have to mount them foreign :-).

You will very likely want to review section 1.2.2 in your "RT-11
Volume and File Formats Manual" to get the straight dope RT-11 <-> VMS
file interchange.  In particular, it notes how RT-11 uses
80-byte HDR1 records now.  If anybody *really* wants to get into
minutae, we can begin a discussion about whether ANSI Standard X3.27-1978
requires that headers be exactly 80 bytes or whether it just sets forth
the interpretation of the first 80 bytes.  I don't have a copy of the
level 4 standard with me at the moment, but I don't think this makes
it any clearer.  In any event, the level-4 compliant versions of RT-11's
FSM handlers in RT-11 V5.7 only write 80 byte headers, so it's now a
moot point.

And tell any RSX devotee that his magtapes must be mounted /FOREIGN
on a VAX and he'll teach you about something called an ACP :-).

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:36:45 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913223645.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?

ANSI sells copies - I don't know the current price.  The one I carry
around with me is ANSI X3.27-1978, "File Structure and Labeling
of Magnetic Tapes for Information Interchange".  There's a more recent
Level 4 document that makes the (obvious) Y2K-compliance workaround
the "official" solution, but I can't find my copy at the moment (I
may very well have left it at a customer's site... oops!)

>> When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
>> in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
>> Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.
> Easier kept in mind when the mind in question actually has *access*
>to the aforementioned document; this one does not. :(

Get me a fax number and I'll send you the relevant pages.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
 


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:42:49 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913224249.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?

Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
US$32.00.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From red at bears.org  Sun Sep 13 21:50:11 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809132242060.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> As the subject says I've got a couple of REALLY basic questions.  I picked
> up my first NeXT box yesterday, and am getting ready to start playing with
> it.

Great, congrats. NeXT is where my loyalties lie.

> Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
> rather flimsy for that.  

The box is die cast from magnesium. No worries.

> Also is there anything I should be aware of when initially powering
> the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network prior to
> powering on?

No, although if the box was previously a network client, it may time out
looking for a Master NetInfo server that doesn't exist. That is mostly
easy to fix, though, so no worries. The ROM monitor can be accessed by
pressing command-command-tilde (comand bar-tilde if you have an ADB
machine) any time after the keyboard self-tests complete (the shift-lock
lights flash) and the machine may be booted into single user mode from
there if necessary.

> Oh, and what's the story with the DSP port on the back?

1.5 mbit serial interface to the machine through the onboard Motorola
56001 DSP. You could get ISDN and SIO interfaces, audio hardware, and
other things to plug into it.

Feel free to contact me with specific questions.

ok
r.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 21:50:29 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913195003.2739A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Many of you have seen the postings of Sam Ismail on this list, but few
> know that these posts are actually generated by an artifically intelligent
> robot named "Lisam" that resides at WeirdStuff warehouse in Sunnyvale. 
> I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> community not far from WeirdStuff. 

Damn paparazzi!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 13 22:07:47 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:19:41 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980914030747.25457.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> community not far from WeirdStuff. 

I'm disappointed though.  Not a Lisa 1 in the lot.  :-)

Speaking of which, has anybody got a spare 1.5M memory card for a Lisa?


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 23:16:27 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <19980914030747.25457.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211548.10270A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 14 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> > I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> > Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> > community not far from WeirdStuff. 
> 
> I'm disappointed though.  Not a Lisa 1 in the lot.  :-)

That one was at home in my garage :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 23:43:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I'm looking thru this June 1977 issue of Byte.  Inside I find an ad from
Apple on page 14&15.  The copy starts "Introducing Apple II", which makes
sense as the Apple II was introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in
April 1977, so this ad was probably one of the first for the Apple II. 
Now, one of the great things about the Apple II was its ability to display
color graphics, apparently a big deal at the time, as supposedly no other
machine in the home computer class had this capability (save for the S-100
machines with a Cromemco TV Dazzler, but that was an add-on, as opposed to
the Apple II's built-in capability). 

Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001.  The
Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM,
cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080.  However,
the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped
graphics).  The Compucolor also had "mini-disk drives" (I assume 8")
available for it separately.  The retail price advertised for the
Compucolor was $2,750, very comparable with a similarly equipped Apple
II.

Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with
built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever
made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success
for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran.
The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share
of the mention.

I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparable
to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) 
hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read.

Maybe someone who is cognizant of that era can shed some additional light
on this.

The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product
in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 14 00:47:16 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809132242060.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>
References: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <v0401170cb2224f64762e@[207.220.32.98]>

>Great, congrats. NeXT is where my loyalties lie.

NeXT has a look that other computers wish they had, the hardware is classy
and the GUI polished.

>> Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
>> rather flimsy for that.
>
>The box is die cast from magnesium. No worries.

Oh, in that case <zip, zing, whoose>, OK, it's booting :^)  Had to hunt for
a while for a place to plug the power cord into the monitor though I'm
afriad.  Then I realized there wasn't one :^)

>> Also is there anything I should be aware of when initially powering
>> the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network prior to
>> powering on?
>
>No, although if the box was previously a network client, it may time out
>looking for a Master NetInfo server that doesn't exist. That is mostly

Well, it's now sitting in the "Mounting file systems" state, has been for a
few minutes, don't know if it's fscking the drive, or looking for NFS
volumes, for all I know it could be expecting some external volumes, but
with a 1Gb HD I kind of doubt that.

<waiting>

OK, it's been about half an hour and the progress bar has sat at that point
the whole time.  Anyone have any ideas?


>easy to fix, though, so no worries. The ROM monitor can be accessed by
>pressing command-command-tilde (comand bar-tilde if you have an ADB
>machine) any time after the keyboard self-tests complete (the shift-lock
>lights flash) and the machine may be booted into single user mode from
>there if necessary.

Hmm, sounds like a plan, OK, I've just dropped into the monitor, and see
that I've got 48Mb of RAM instead of 32 <yipee>, but only a 239Mb HD
instead of a 1GB <sigh>.  Gotta love an error msg of "WARNING: preposterous
time in Real Time Clock".

OK, playing some more with the ROM monitor, it looks like it's actually got
some RAM that needs reset, or it's got a bad 32Mb SIMM, I know there are 4
SIMMs, but it only shows 3, one 32Mb, and 2 8Mb (cool).

Some more playing and I somehow got it to do a verbose boot (I was actually
trying to power down :^/  It is in fact stuck on trying to mount a remote
file system, namely /usr/local (hmm, shouldn't be devistatingly important).

>Feel free to contact me with specific questions.
>
>ok
>r.

OK, how do I boot single user so I can make changes to /etc/mtab?  For all
that goes does it use /etc/mtab?  <hoping single user mode isn't password
protected>

Also, I'll try to figure it out after sending this, but how do I shutdown
this thing properly?  It's looking like a halt from the monitor, which will
apparently sync the HD, and then pull the plug <gulp>.

Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
net, but didn't dig anything up.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From thomas100 at home.com  Mon Sep 14 00:48:03 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
Message-ID: <199809140545.VAA04041@next.ireadyco.com>

Setting 17" monitors on the box is normal.  The CPU can handle it.
Most of the connection cables aren't long enough to do otherwise  
anyway.  :-(

Openstep 4.2 on NeXT hardware does Windows Networking (Samba).  If  
you have a printer you can even set up your entire NeXT machine as a  
postscript printer from Windows and have at it!

There is also an Appletalk server available for it [free] that is a  
double-clickable application.
You probably won't have much need for Netinfo.  Nevertheless it's  
easiest to use the Simple Networking application in /NextAdmin, enter  
an IP address and set it up as a Netinfo server.

Before doing this, go into /etc and copy the default netinfo  
directory s.t. you have a spare copy.  So if you mess up your netinfo  
database while you're getting started you can boot in single user  
mode and start over.  Also make a copy of the default /etc/hostconfig  
file.  [Call them hostconfig.default and netinfo.default if you  
like]

More specifically...
cd /etc
cp -r netinfo netinfo.default
cp hostconfig hostconfig.default

If you have any problems let me know...

Thomas


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 23:55:18 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Stuff up for grabs, and an explanation
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913220304.kyrrin@jps.net>

Hi, folks,

        I just posted a blurb to the Usenet groups comp.sys.dec and
comp.sys.dec.micro to start moving most of the stuff I rescued a while
back from Fluke up in Everett. I'm CC'ing this to Dave Jenner as I
think he was one of the folks who wanted some of the rescued gear.
If this isn't true, Dave, please pardon the post.

        Some explanation is, I feel, in order as to why I didn't post
here first (as I normally would have).

        When I first picked the stuff up, my contact said that there
had been considerable interest in the stuff, though my response had
apparently come in first. He later forwarded me an E-mail containing
the contact info for the others who had responded, since I had made a
promise to redistribute the stuff after I decided what I wanted to keep.

        Due to my own clumsiness, this E-mail has gone astray. Since my
Fluke contact's original message advertising the stuff had gone to the
same two groups I posted my latest blurb to, I figured it would be a
good bet to do the same thing under the assumption that the same people
would see this and get in touch with me.

        So, there you have it. I'm more concerned with finding the
stuff a good home than anything else, though I did make a request for a
contribution of $25 to help cover the time off from work and
gas/wear/tear on my car (it was a fairly long trip).

        Let's see how it goes....

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 21:55:18, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From red at bears.org  Mon Sep 14 00:08:44 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <v0401170cb2224f64762e@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809140049280.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> Oh, in that case <zip, zing, whoose>, OK, it's booting :^)  Had to hunt for
> a while for a place to plug the power cord into the monitor though I'm
> afriad.  Then I realized there wasn't one :^)

Surprise! I always liked that.

> Well, it's now sitting in the "Mounting file systems" state, has been for a
> few minutes, don't know if it's fscking the drive, or looking for NFS
> volumes, for all I know it could be expecting some external volumes, but
> with a 1Gb HD I kind of doubt that.

Those are almost certainly NFS timeouts. It'll say 'checking the disk'
when it's fscking.

It's good news, though, that you didn't get the NetInfo timeouts as those
can indicate some of the most troublesome problems.

> OK, it's been about half an hour and the progress bar has sat at that point
> the whole time.  Anyone have any ideas?

> Hmm, sounds like a plan, OK, I've just dropped into the monitor, and see
> that I've got 48Mb of RAM instead of 32 <yipee>, but only a 239Mb HD
> instead of a 1GB <sigh>.  Gotta love an error msg of "WARNING: preposterous
> time in Real Time Clock".
> 

> OK, playing some more with the ROM monitor, it looks like it's actually got
> some RAM that needs reset, or it's got a bad 32Mb SIMM, I know there are 4
> SIMMs, but it only shows 3, one 32Mb, and 2 8Mb (cool).

You might want to verify that; I seem to recall something about the
formatting of the display there that led me once to wonder the same thing,
but the machines require RAM installed in pairs.

Suddenly, though, that strikes me as odd, as my 040 cube uses 30 pin SIMMs
and takes the standard matched quads.

> Some more playing and I somehow got it to do a verbose boot (I was actually
> trying to power down :^/

Hit the power key. (:

The two most commonly used options to b are -s (single user boot) and -v
(verbose boot)

> OK, how do I boot single user so I can make changes to /etc/mtab?  For all
> that goes does it use /etc/mtab?  <hoping single user mode isn't password
> protected>

No, the console single-user boot is open. It is regularly used to repair
brain-damaged system reconfigs. (: I think there's an option somewhere to
password protect the single-user boot, but I've never heard of it being
done.

NeXT> bsd -s

will boot from the standard hard disk (first available SCSI disk) to
single-user.

Oh, and mtab is used by the OS to keep track of the currently mounted
fs'en. Edit /etc/fstab instead.

IF /usr/local IS NOT LISTED IN /etc/fstab:

The NFS Admin tool was used to create the mount entry and we'll have to
fossick about in the NetInfo db. No big deal, but it is desireable to
avoid doing so.

> Also, I'll try to figure it out after sending this, but how do I shutdown
> this thing properly?  It's looking like a halt from the monitor, which will
> apparently sync the HD, and then pull the plug <gulp>.

Soft power. If the OS is running, hit the power key. It'll sync and power
off. If it's not (i.e. you're in the ROM monitor) just hit the power key.

Easy, eh? (:

> Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
> net, but didn't dig anything up.

Look harder. It's out there, but is old and the maintainer can't be
reached---I had some additions but was unable to get them added. I don't
have the URL handy, otherwise I'd give it to you. If you truly can't find
it, I'll see if I can't dig it up.

ok
r.



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Mon Sep 14 00:40:49 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35feab88.906093824@insight>

Wow - that's him?  But he comes across like such an old f*rt on the
list!  I guess that's what happens when you run Windows 95 on an
Apple.  ;-)  Wonder if he's Y2K compliant...?

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:19:41 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:
<snip>
>Prepare yourself; this won't be pretty.
>
>	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/people/ismail.jpg

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 00:57:03 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <35feab88.906093824@insight>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913225434.10270F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Bill Richman wrote:

> Wow - that's him?  But he comes across like such an old f*rt on the
> list!  I guess that's what happens when you run Windows 95 on an
> Apple.  ;-)  Wonder if he's Y2K compliant...?

This came out of no where.

I'm a very young looking 72.  Don't cross me, sonny, or I'll slap you
upside the head with my cane.

("Fart" is spelled with an 'a'.)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Mon Sep 14 01:05:13 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <4733983e.35fcb219@aol.com>

This one is a no brainer. I scrapped a Compucolor 8001 once. It was a STD Bus
8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial color terminal. This
terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor inside. It weighed 70 or
80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in their house. It was ugly, huge, very
unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 8" hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and
any other interface availiable on STD bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot
backplane. No comparison to an Apple  II, which many people wanted in their
homes.
Paxton


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 01:20:23 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <4733983e.35fcb219@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913231738.16328A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> This one is a no brainer. I scrapped a Compucolor 8001 once. It was a
> STD Bus 8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial color
> terminal. This terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor
> inside. It weighed 70 or 80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in their
> house. It was ugly, huge, very unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 8"
> hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and any other interface availiable on STD
> bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot backplane. No comparison to an
> Apple II, which many people wanted in their homes. 

Well, you just spent a paragraph telling us your opinion of the
Compucolor, without giving any technical reasons as to why one would
prefer an Apple II over a Compucolor. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 03:04:42 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914034248.11127A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Bill Richman wrote:

> I believe you're talking about the Mattel "Big Trak"?  My nephews had one of
> those many years ago.

Mine is labeled Milton Bradley.  I still have my Big Trak, its box, and
its manual, and although some of the axils are busted, it still works!

> I believe it used tank-type steering; six wheels, and it could either lock
> one set and pivot using the others, or reverse one side.

It has six wheels; three on each side.

The middle wheel on each side is a drive wheel.  To turn, it turns one of
these wheels forward and the other backward.  So it does a nice pivot.

> I've got some surplus gearboxes and motors from the Big Trak that I
> purchased several years ago.  They're kind of neat; they have two motors and
> gear trains, linked together with a couple of big magnets.  If you run both
> in the same direction, the magnets are strong enough to force both motors to
> turn at the same speed.  If you reverse one of the motors, the magnets
> alternately repel and attract.  This either forces the machine to drive in a
> straight line, or to pivot about its center, respectively.  They also have
> an optical interrupter on one gear so the CPU can tell how far the motors
> have turned.

Cool!  The turning never worked that well for me, but I think it had more
to do with uneven floors than with the Big Trak.  A value of 15 was
supposed to do a 90 degree turn, but sometimes it took 14 or 16 and it
made programming difficult.  I had to keep re-entering the programs for a
particular patch of floor, and the effect of just having it follow me into
a room and shoot someone of my choosing was lost. :)

My Big Trak's biggest problem was (and is) breaking plastic.  First it was
the tabs that held the D cells in place, then it was the front axil, then
one of the back axils.

When I play with it now, I hold the batteries in place by forcing a
broken popsicle stick into the hole in the cover, which acts to keep the
plastic tab in place.  Eventually this might stress the plastic and cause
more breakage. :/

The front axil is held together with electrical tape.

The back axil has been drilled through and bolted into place.  It was a
repair my father made when I was a kid.  It's not quite straight, though,
so the wheel doesn't turn freely.

But it's still a cool toy.  I drag it out about once every two years and
have it drive around the house.

When I was a kid I had some sheets of paper that I had written programs
on, but those must have been tossed out or recycled years ago.

> It had a hookup to dump the trailer, and I think some other
> options that never were released.  It was a pretty cool toy.  

The trailer was the Big Trak Transport.  It looks highly breakable. :)

> A quick web search found this:
> 
> BigTrak User's Guide:
> http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/brown/BT_UG/
> 
> BigTrak Simulator Project:
> http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/corke/
> 
> BigTrak Repair Service:
> http://www.lavalamp.demon.co.uk/bigtrak/bigtrak.htm

I'll have to check these out. :)

>                                         Bill Richman
>                                         incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
>                                         (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
>                                          microcomputer simulator!)

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Mon Sep 14 03:28:29 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
Message-ID: <004b01bddfb9$a7205620$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

Doesn't he have any keyboards either?
Where have all the keyboards gone?



From thomas at ireadyco.COM  Mon Sep 14 04:10:51 1998
From: thomas at ireadyco.COM (thomas)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Big Trak / Lego Robot kit arrived
In-Reply-To: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>
Message-ID: <199809141007.CAA04325@next.ireadyco.com>

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From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 04:14:01 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
In-Reply-To: <199809101932.MAA10122@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914045036.9708A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:

> > Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  I've
> > stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested I'll
> > get it scanned and uploaded. 
> > 
> > colan
> 
> I'd love to see it!  Thanks for letting us know.
> 
> Next to old computers themselves, my next favorite collectible is
> classic computer collateral -- ads, catalog entries, old photos,
> that kind of thing.

I like this kind of stuff, too.

We actually have a large pile of Popular Science magazines that are slowly
degrading in the basement.  We were going to throw them out, so I got busy
with a razor blade and cut out a lot of things.  Unfortunatley that got my
father and I reading the old issues, and as a result they still haven't
been thrown out.  But I do have a binder full of interesting
computer-related stuff.

The single-system reviews I've collected from Popular Science are:

Apple ///
Xerox 820
Timex Sinclair 1000
Apple Lisa
Epson QX-10
Access
Kaypro 10
Gavilan
Macintosh
Sinclair QL
Acorn (unknown model, it's just called the Acorn in the article, looks
       like BBC-B)
Kaypro 2000
Amiga
Atari 520ST
Macintosh Plus

A lot of other computers are mentioned (and photographed!) in articles or
mini-reviews, including:

Sinclair ZX80
VIC-20
TRS-80 Pocket Computer
Sharp PC-1211
NewBrain
TRS-80 Color Computer
TRS-80 Model III
IBM-PC
NEC PC-8001A
Osborne 1
APF Imagination Machine
Casio FX-9000P
TI-99/4A
HP-86
Sony SMC-70
Olivetti M20
Commodore BX256
Zenith Z200
Commodore Max
Astrocade
Altos
Cromemco
.
.
.
(the list is lengthier than I want to type ;) )

There are also ads for things like the TI-99/2 with Bill Cosby, the Adam,
the PMC-80, Ohio Scientific Challenger, Atari 400, Color Computer with
Isaac Asimov, VIC-20 with William Shatner, etc, etc, etc...

Lots of cool articles on computer technology stuff, too.

If you cut up Popular Science magazines and condense them to just the
computer stuff, you end up with a really interesting read. :)

> -Seth

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 04:36:10 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914052730.16947A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.

I think I've seen ads for them.  Probably any COMPUTE! or COMPUTE!'s
Gazette from the '83-'86 timeframe would be a good place to start looking
for what _may_have_been_ available. :)

> I know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had
> mine <sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were
> selectable by a rotary switch, and available via the OCCUG (Oregon
> Commodore Computer Users Group).

I've got a multi-cartridge adapter for the VIC-20, which I don't know how
to use.  I got it with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it, and I
assume that the cartridge adapter board was made so that multiple
cartridges could be active at the same time.  So that, for example, I
could use an 8K expander with Quick Brown Fox.

The reason I say I don't know how to use the multi-cartridge adapter is
that it has a bunch of dip switches, and I've got no manual to tell me
what they do.  I have managed to plug in my 16K RAM Expander and various
other carts at the same time, and had it come up with the 16K visible, but
then I don't know the proper entry point for the software (though I've
been able to scan through memory and see QBF there).

My adapter board says "Cardboard" on it, and it has space for six
cartridges.  And it has a reset button. :)

> 			Zane

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From oajones at bright.net  Mon Sep 14 04:44:37 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Commodore Plus/4
Message-ID: <35FCE585.501E@bright.net>

I have a Commodore Plus/4 for sale. It is in mint condition and in the
original box with books, ect. The price is $25 plus shipping.

--Alan


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 06:03:42 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with
> built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever
> made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
> between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success
> for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran.
> The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share
> of the mention.

Color graphics was only part of the equation, and a pretty small part.
The Apple ][ was the first mass-produced high-quality high-availability
micro.  If you looks at any successful product, you'll generally find that
it did *several* things right.  So, start with the fact that on paper,
that Apple had specs that met or exceeded just about anything else
available.  Then add the price, then the fact that it looked good (don't
underestimate that), then the fact that the fit-and-finish surpassed
anything else out there (ask Toyota how important that is), and perhaps
most importantly, add the Apple dealer network.  Most of the people buying
Apples weren't hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into
an Apple store.

The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped
graphics certainly helped the Apple when compared to te TRS-80, but the
Apple was just so damn *pretty* compared to the rest.

Of course, this is where the HP connection comes in:

     "Jobs thought the cigar boxes [housing the home-made computers]
     that sat on the ... desk tops during Homebrew meetings were as
     elegant as fly traps.  The angular, blue and black sheet-metal
     case that housed Processor Technology's Sol struck him as clumsy
     and industrial ... A plastic case was generally considered a
     needless expense compared to the cheaper and more pliable sheet
     metal.  Hobbyists, so the arguments went, didn't care as much for
     appearance as they did for substance.  Jobs wanted to model the
     case for the Apple after those Hewlett-Packard used for its
     calculators.  He admired their sleek, fresh lines, their hardy
     finish, and the way they looked at home on a table or desk."
	-- Michael Moritz, THE LITTLE KINGDOM, p. 186.

-- Doug



From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Mon Sep 14 08:08:25 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914130825Z-187659@exchange01.hersheys.com>

If it's for the 64, it could be a cartridge like Action Replay or
whatever was made for the 64. It usually has a pass-through on the
expansion bus and a button to activate the cart. These carts were used
to *freeze* the computer and allow you access to all the current memory
to examine, change, or save entire blocks to disk. The logic chips were
probably used to transfer control electrically from the Kernel to the
code stored in the EPROM upon the push of the button.

Jeff Salzman
>
>It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
>light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
>square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
>an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
>covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
>SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
>button makes contact, it says "TOP".
>


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 09:41:57 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <199809141337.IAA08267@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 6:03, Doug Yowza wrote:
> Most of the people buying Apples weren't
> hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into an Apple store.

I didn't think we had yuppies in 1977.  That is how I found the Apple 
myself though.  I was going to buy a TRS-80 and just happened to 
run across a store selling Apples.  It was the color graphics, slots 
and the fact the higher capacity disks that sold me over the TRS-
80.  At the time I hadn't heard of Compucolors.  Though I did see 
the Compucolor II later on and wanted one.  Thus I guess you 
could say it was marketing that helped make the Apple the hit it 
was.  I don't think the Compucolor 8001 was ever marketed 
towards the home user.

> The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
> available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
> a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped

I always saw PETs in department stores.  Don't recall ever seeing 
one in a computer store.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 09:44:35 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: (Fwd) Rescue in the UK
Message-ID: <199809141340.IAA08285@trailingedge.com>

If anyone in the UK is interested contact the party below.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	kthacker@krisalis.co.uk
Date sent:      	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:57:32 +0100

Hi,

If you're interested I have a Amiga A500+ in bad condition which 
you
could try to rehabilitate.
I've only got the casing (a bit dodgy), the main board (missing
Kickstart 2) - when you switch it
on it fails - might be problem with real time clock etc. It also has the
disc drive and keyboard.

I'm happy to send it to you, but you'd have to pay postage. I'm not 
sure
if you are in the UK, but it would be better if you were.

I'd prefer for it not to go into a landfill site.

Kev


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon Sep 14 09:39:55 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980914093955.00c80c20@pc>

At 09:43 PM 9/13/98 -0700, youthful photogenic Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product
>in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
>got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.]

In my experience, when engineers and programmers say "best" they mean
technically pure, interesting, vibrant, and often cost-effective.

They always seem baffled by the marketplace when it decides that
"best" means something else and doesn't buy the coolest technology
as frequently as something seemingly second-best, and it only gets
worse when others begin to espouse the notion that "most popular" 
equals "best" as well.

- John



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Sep 14 09:54:26 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Free 19-inch rack - Beaverton, OR area
In-Reply-To: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914074513.17654B-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

DEC lo-boy system rack.  Suitable for 10 inch chassis CPU and two RA/RL
form factor drives.

First to be able to come get it before it becomes 'oject de art

Drop me a note if interested.
-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 14 10:48:34 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809121336.AA13697@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <13387866761.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

I found software called MX which uses CMU-IP and plays SMTP server.
It's on my 3100 now.
Seems to work OK...  Hang on and I'll dig up where I got it from.
-------


From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 14 11:34:07 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:

> Color graphics was only part of the equation, and a pretty small part.
> The Apple ][ was the first mass-produced high-quality high-availability
> micro.  If you looks at any successful product, you'll generally find that
> it did *several* things right.  So, start with the fact that on paper,
> that Apple had specs that met or exceeded just about anything else
> available.  Then add the price, then the fact that it looked good (don't
> underestimate that), then the fact that the fit-and-finish surpassed
> anything else out there (ask Toyota how important that is), and perhaps
> most importantly, add the Apple dealer network.  Most of the people buying
> Apples weren't hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into
> an Apple store.

The same stores where I first saw Apples were the same stores where I
first saw Pets and Compucolors and Cromemcos -- the Byte Shop in
Mountain View and the Computerland in Los Altos.  While what I wanted
was a Cromemco 3, the credit rating of a guy fresh out of the USAF
was insufficient to get a loan for the $10k for the configuration I
wanted, so I went with a more incremental approach involving the
TRS-80.  I do remember the Compucolor II as a nice system.  (Never
have yet gotten into the Apple II, or for that matter anything else
with a 6502 -- never liked the specs on the processor).
> 
> The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
> available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
> a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped
> graphics certainly helped the Apple when compared to te TRS-80, but the
> Apple was just so damn *pretty* compared to the rest.

And the TRS-80 would have driven Apple into receivership by 1980 if it
hadn't been for VisiCalc -- that one product saved the whole company,
allowing it to survive long enough to produce the Lisa and the Mac,
causing the plague of GUIs that haunts us more every day.  (Oh, the
GUIs would _exist_, but there wouldn't have been so much _pressure_).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 11:46:45 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914130825Z-187659@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD4873.69E997B5@xio.com>

I attempted to use it on my 128.

Without a cartridge plugged into it, the 128 would come up part way -- in 128
mode. It would have the gray backgrouna and green border and a screen largely
full of "@"s.

With a cartridge plugged in, the screen stayed black when I turned the power on.

It certainly seemed about the right size for a 64 cartridge, but it doesn't
work that way. Also, the passthru plug is a teeny big too large to easily get
a cartridge to attach to it.

	-jrs

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> If it's for the 64, it could be a cartridge like Action Replay or
> whatever was made for the 64. It usually has a pass-through on the
> expansion bus and a button to activate the cart. These carts were used
> to *freeze* the computer and allow you access to all the current memory
> to examine, change, or save entire blocks to disk. The logic chips were
> probably used to transfer control electrically from the Kernel to the
> code stored in the EPROM upon the push of the button.
> 
> Jeff Salzman
> >
> >It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
> >light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
> >square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
> >an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
> >covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
> >SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
> >resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
> >next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
> >button makes contact, it says "TOP".
> >

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Mon Sep 14 12:16:25 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>

What are the expansion port specs (if applicable) of an Atari ST?
Research on the internet turned up info about a cartridge port expander
made to connect a scanner to an ST via a Navarone Cartridge Interface

(ref:)  http://www.ataricentral.com/wwwboard/messages/366.html

Other found info:

Navarone Industries is (was) located at:

Navarone Industries, Inc.
510 Lawrence Expressway #800
Sunnyvale, CA 94086

(ref:)
http://cws86.kyamk.fi/Computers/Commodore/articles/Enhancing_Your_64/
---------------------------------------
Navarone apparently made stuff for the TI99. I wonder if it is a
pass-thru cart for the side connector of a TI99, where the speech module
connects to (I forget if the port is male or female)? Or, even though it
may not be as wide as a regular TI cart, does it slide into the front
cartridge connector anyhow and possibly be used for copying cartridges? 

<insert standard liability disclaimer>
---------------------------------------

Jeff Salzman

>It certainly seemed about the right size for a 64 cartridge, but it doesn't
>work that way. Also, the passthru plug is a teeny big too large to easily get
>a cartridge to attach to it.
>


From mtapley at swri.edu  Mon Sep 14 12:30:50 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: One more NeXT dealer
Message-ID: <l03102801b222ffd8bf7d@[129.162.151.33]>

All,
	Thomas Pfaff picked out 3 of my top 4 NeXT sources. The 4th is:

http://206.67.57.106			Black Hole, Incorporated

	(having problems with his USP pointing to
http://www.blackholeinc.com/ )
I have contacted them before, and they seemed nice, but I have not dealt
with them. (They didn't have the software I was looking for.)

						- Mark




From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 14 13:01:00 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <199809141801.AA24979@world.std.com>


< the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
< 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped

The Compucolor had raster graphics. It did run it as raster too.  The 
software was written as vector to raster.

< Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer wi
< built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is eve
< made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
< between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous succes
< for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran
< The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's shar
< of the mention.

Such are the vagarities of history.

< I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparab
< to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) 
< hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read.

the difference is the apple could be had peicemeal for less and the 
Compucolor was big and expensive.  the CC was intimidating and aimed at 
the highend, appleII was cuddly and inviting being aimed a bit lower.

Think of it this way it's wasnt' what the hardware could do it was waht 
the user perceived (s)he could do with it.

< The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing produc
< in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
< got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.

DEC did not learn that several times over starting with the PDP-11/150
(destop pdp-11 system), the VT180, Pro350 and Rainbow.  Yet the DECMATE
series which were fairly capable but generally used for wordprocessing 
are like flies!

Allison



From mtapley at swri.edu  Mon Sep 14 13:03:04 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: NeXT FAQ/info
Message-ID: <l03102802b2230882c889@[129.162.151.33]>


Hello, all,

> Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
> net, but didn't dig anything up.

Here are Net.places I'd start with for info on NeXTs:

http://www.stepwise.com
http://www.peak.org/next
http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers

all extracted from the periodical "..Resources on the Net" posting in
comp.sys.next.announce  if you can get usenet.

Also:
http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/index-noframe.html
						- Mark




From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 13:24:36 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD5F5F.92C8FE0F@xio.com>

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> What are the expansion port specs (if applicable) of an Atari ST?
> Research on the internet turned up info about a cartridge port expander
> made to connect a scanner to an ST via a Navarone Cartridge Interface
> 
> (ref:)  http://www.ataricentral.com/wwwboard/messages/366.html

This, I'm not sure about. I have one Atari ST thing -- a Happy Computers disk
interface box of some sort. I don't have an ST, but the card-edge connector on
this disk thing is narrower than the slot on the Navarone cartridge.

> Navarone apparently made stuff for the TI99. I wonder if it is a
> pass-thru cart for the side connector of a TI99, where the speech module
> connects to (I forget if the port is male or female)? Or, even though it
> may not be as wide as a regular TI cart, does it slide into the front
> cartridge connector anyhow and possibly be used for copying cartridges?

I checked with a friend about the cartridge slot on a TI99/4A -- it has a
40-pin connector, not a 44-pin provided by the Navarone thingy.

Hmmm...

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 13:30:38 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD60C8.6BCC1046@xio.com>

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> Navarone Industries is (was) located at:
> 
> Navarone Industries, Inc.
> 510 Lawrence Expressway #800
> Sunnyvale, CA 94086

And I just called (408) information. They have no listing for Navarone
Industries in Sunnyvale.

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Mon Sep 14 13:40:32 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <199809141801.AA24979@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 14, 98 02:01:00 pm
Message-ID: <199809141840.OAA25192@shell.monmouth.com>

> < The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing produc
> < in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
> < got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.
> 
> DEC did not learn that several times over starting with the PDP-11/150
> (destop pdp-11 system), the VT180, Pro350 and Rainbow.  Yet the DECMATE
> series which were fairly capable but generally used for wordprocessing 
> are like flies!
> 
> Allison
> 

The DECmate had one of the nicest word processing systems.  Non-techies
could pick up the DECmate and be productive in hours.  Kind of like the 
Wang word processing copied by MultiMate.

Compare that to Wordstar (a slick word processor for some of us who
don't mind roff/troff like dot commands and who are willing to learn
control codes).

The VT180 and PDP150 suffered from lack of hard disk and were condemned
to a too-soon trash heap.  I have the VT180 at home and still love it
with WPS-80 (for DECmate like) word processing.  The PDT150 was a nice
RT11 box -- but disk access was slow and limited to the two RX01 like
floppies.  RX50 size disks would've been better.  A 20 meg hard disk
would've been outstanding. (I didn't even miss the lack of XM or
any memory management on the PDT).  I ran RT11 v5 with FB and System Job
support to run RTMON on a VT100 with my console being a PC with VT100
emulation.

I ran DECnet from home to DEC over a serial link (1200 baud) and found 
it would've been slick if there was only less swapping and load time.

Bill

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From erd at infinet.com  Mon Sep 14 13:43:56 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <199809141337.IAA08267@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 14, 98 09:41:57 am
Message-ID: <199809141843.OAA02868@user2.infinet.com>

 
David Williams writes:
> I always saw PETs in department stores.  Don't recall ever seeing 
> one in a computer store.

I bought my 32K PET in 1978 at the Micro Mini Computer Store in Columbus,
Ohio, the only place for 100 miles to buy PETs.  I never saw them at 
department stores.  It was $1000 plus $100 for the external tape.  When I
used it every day, I was never able to afford a disk drive (by the time
4040's got cheap, I had moved on to Amigas).  

-ethan



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 14 13:46:15 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seatt
 le.wa.us>
References: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980914134615.3b7f7c8c@intellistar.net>

Jason,

   I have a card like that too.  There's no same on it or the manual but
the description is the same.  It even has the Cirrus Logic video Bios. It
has nine sets of jumpers near the center of the board and a single pair
toward one end.  The floppy and IDE connectors are mounted vertically near
the center of the board. Let me know if you want to compare them and see if
they're the same.  I have the manuals and software for mine.

   Joe


At 12:45 PM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I had a multi-I/o card that did 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 game, SuperVGA
>(Cirrus Logic 5424 I think), IDE and floppy all on one card. But it was a
>VLB card. I used it in my 486SLC I had at the time. I don't remember who
>made it. It was "generic" -- no name printed on the card, and all of the
>large number of jumpers where labelled "JPx" so it was quite difficult to
>reconfigure without the manual.
>
>	-jrs
>
>At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
>>one card with:
>> - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
>> - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
>> - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
>> - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
>>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.
>>
>>The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
>>would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
>>and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.
>>
>>Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
>>I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
>>a card?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dave
>>
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon
>



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 15:39:08 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: The Pill?
Message-ID: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>

I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
with says:

ON                    OFF
       "THE PILL"

This came in a box of misc Atari 800 items but I don't know where 
it would plug into an Atari.  Anyone have any idea what it might be?


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From mark_k at iname.com  Sun Sep 13 11:55:54 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Limiting message size
Message-ID: <yam7560.2701.6275624@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

Would it be possible to enforce a maximum size for each list message in the
classiccmp mailing list software? 20K maximum should be okay, and would prevent
people (accidentally or on purpose) sending large files through the list, as
just happened.

Otherwise when someone posts a large file to the list, those who subscribe to
the digest version especially must decide between downloading a huge digest
message file (containing the useless large posting), or skipping it and
therefore missing proper messages. (If they have configured their mail program
to alert them when large messages are waiting.)

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


-- Mark



From mark_k at iname.com  Mon Sep 14 16:56:40 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <yam7561.2024.3960728@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an external
unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive, for a
simple floppy drive.

Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive mechanism,
and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive set
in the backup RAM.

I can format disks and use DIR, but reading or writing any files always gives
an Abort/Retry/Cancel error. Unsurprisingly, cleaning the heads made no
difference. Actually, to elaborate on this copying a load of files to a newly-
formatted disk gives an error after copying (say) the first two files.

Does this drive have some non-standard pinout, different from the 37-way D
5.25" port on the back of the PC, or maybe only work with IBM PS/2 machines?

If it is just faulty, what might the problem be? The cable is unlikely I think,
as is the power supply.

The casing has a couple of tamperproof Torx screws. I'd like to know what size
they are so that I can buy a suitable screwdriver bit.


Finally, on another subject, if anyone has an old PC with at least three ISA
slots (386SX would be fine) I could give it a good home.


-- Mark



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:09:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Big Trak / Lego Robot kit arrived
In-Reply-To: <199809141007.CAA04325@next.ireadyco.com> from "thomas" at Sep 14, 98 02:10:51 am
Message-ID: <m0zId4D-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 14:54:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
Message-ID: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Sep 14 16:54:03 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914144937.14317A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> I was delving in my pile of odd bits and I found the encoder board for an 
> Apple ][ keyboard. This is the later version with the slide switch to 
> select between reset and ctrl-reset. It's marked 'Encoder Discrete 
> Keyboard 605-X105-__ Copyright Apple Computer 1979'
> 
> There are 2 unused positions on this board. One is marked S2, and seems 
> to be for a DPDT switch. There are X-pads to cut (I guess) when you 
> install this switch. 
> 
> The other is J2, and is for a DE9-P connector.
> 
> Does anyone know what they're for? I would guess J2 is for a numeric 
> keypad, but I can't be sure.

As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the J2
connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And, I
believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads) enables
lower case encoding.

Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard ROMs.

(been quite a while since I looked at the prints on that one tho...)

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Sep 14 16:55:42 1998
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
References: <199809132215.OAA03763@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <35FD90DE.183200E8@texoma.net>

I've bought from DeepSpace Tech and got good prompt service.  It was
only a mouse, but shipment was as promised and the price seemed
reasonable.

James

Thomas Pfaff wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I should note that there are several places to reliably pick up inexpensive NeXT hardware.
> Ebay and such generally don't have such good prices.
> 
> news://comp.sys.next.marketplace
> http://www.orb.com
> http://www.deepspacetech.com
> 
> The 'orb' guy is weird and opportunistic but does seem to do whatever he says he'll do in terms of support and such. I've never bought from deepspace but have heard reasonably good things about them. Orb is on the west coast just north of San Francisco. I believe deepspace is on the east coast... Orb seems to occasionally pick up equipment from deepspace and sell it for higher prices but that's usual. I've dealt with orb on and off since 1991 or so.
> 
> Thomas
> ----
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: kyrrin@jps.net
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: NeXT system available soon!
> X-Sender: kyrrin@seleth.bluefeather.com
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> 
> While at RE-PC in Seattle yesterday, I saw that they're working
> on getting a complete color NeXT system ready to sell. As near as I can
> tell, this is the 'Pizza Box' configuration with 32 megs RAM. I don't
> know what size hard drive it has as it had been taken home by one of
> the guys who was going to load the NeXT OS on it.
> 
> If interested, give a call to the Seattle store at (206)
> 623-9151. Ask for Maurice or Jeff and tell them I referred you.
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
> E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
> Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 10:25:09, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
> "...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can
> only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human
> terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep 14 16:43:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <199809142200.SAA16533@gate.usaor.net>

> 
> The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an
external
> unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive,
for a
> simple floppy drive.
> 
The extra space (length) is the power supply.  I also have one of those
drives.

> Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive
mechanism,
> and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive
set
> in the backup RAM.

It was made to work with the XT, plugging into a special port on the disk
controller card.  Yes, it is a standard 360K drive.

> 
> I can format disks and use DIR, but reading or writing any files always
gives
> an Abort/Retry/Cancel error. Unsurprisingly, cleaning the heads made no
> difference. Actually, to elaborate on this copying a load of files to a
newly-
> formatted disk gives an error after copying (say) the first two files.
> 
> Does this drive have some non-standard pinout, different from the 37-way
D
> 5.25" port on the back of the PC, or maybe only work with IBM PS/2
machines?
> 
The D connector goes directly to the disk drive.

> If it is just faulty, what might the problem be? The cable is unlikely I
think,
> as is the power supply.
> 
> The casing has a couple of tamperproof Torx screws. I'd like to know what
size
> they are so that I can buy a suitable screwdriver bit.

Tamperproof screw solution: a SHARP 1/2" drill bit.  Just drill off the
heads, and you'll have no problem.

The drive that I had, I had no use for, and couldn't get it to work with my
PC, so here's what I did: 

-Pulled the old 360K drive, and replaced it with a 1.2 meg drive.  
-Cut a hole in the top of the case large enough so that I could attach a
3.5" drive on top of the 5.25".
-Super-glued the 3.5" to the 5.25" drive.
-Split the power cable, and put a 3.5" floppy connector on it so that the
P/S could power both drives.
-Using a TRS-80 printer cable (ribbon - type), I twisted the cable and put
on new plugs to connect the floppies.
-Ran the ribbon cable under the P/S, and out a slot that I cut in the back.
 
-Connected all cables, and put the case back together.
-Ran ribbon cable into open slot on back of computer and connected to
floppy connector.

It may seem like a bit of work to get an external drive, but it sure beats
buying a new $80 tower case.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 17:05:25 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <19980914220526.28308.qmail@hotmail.com>





Because people  don't want to feel like they're singlehandedly
running the Ministry of Truth from a desk in their room. Something
engineers never seem to get is the concept of a nice look. Many of
the people on this list mention how ugly something is, and if I've
seen it, I'm often forced to agree.
>> STD Bus 8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial 
color
>> terminal. This terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor
>> inside. It weighed 70 or 80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in 
their
>> house. It was ugly, huge, very unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 
8"
>> hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and any other interface availiable on 
STD
>> bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot backplane. No comparison to 
an
>> Apple II, which many people wanted in their homes. 
>
>Well, you just spent a paragraph telling us your opinion of the
>Compucolor, without giving any technical reasons as to why one would
>prefer an Apple II over a Compucolor. 
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 17:10:03 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
Message-ID: <19980914221003.11301.qmail@hotmail.com>





Popular science used to be a good magazine, until they changed
editors a few years ago and it became much less informative.
While before they had some real journalism, now it's just constant
articles about 'the new superplane'.
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:
>
>> > Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  
I've
>> > stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested 
I'll
>> > get it scanned and uploaded. 
>> > 
>> > colan
>> 
>> I'd love to see it!  Thanks for letting us know.
>> 
>> Next to old computers themselves, my next favorite collectible is
>> classic computer collateral -- ads, catalog entries, old photos,
>> that kind of thing.
>
>I like this kind of stuff, too.
>
>We actually have a large pile of Popular Science magazines that are 
slowly
>degrading in the basement.  We were going to throw them out, so I got 
busy
>with a razor blade and cut out a lot of things.  Unfortunatley that got 
my
>father and I reading the old issues, and as a result they still haven't
>been thrown out.  But I do have a binder full of interesting
>computer-related stuff.
>
>The single-system reviews I've collected from Popular Science are:
>
>Apple ///
>Xerox 820
>Timex Sinclair 1000
>Apple Lisa
>Epson QX-10
>Access
>Kaypro 10
>Gavilan
>Macintosh
>Sinclair QL
>Acorn (unknown model, it's just called the Acorn in the article, looks
>       like BBC-B)
>Kaypro 2000
>Amiga
>Atari 520ST
>Macintosh Plus
>
>A lot of other computers are mentioned (and photographed!) in articles 
or
>mini-reviews, including:
>
>Sinclair ZX80
>VIC-20
>TRS-80 Pocket Computer
>Sharp PC-1211
>NewBrain
>TRS-80 Color Computer
>TRS-80 Model III
>IBM-PC
>NEC PC-8001A
>Osborne 1
>APF Imagination Machine
>Casio FX-9000P
>TI-99/4A
>HP-86
>Sony SMC-70
>Olivetti M20
>Commodore BX256
>Zenith Z200
>Commodore Max
>Astrocade
>Altos
>Cromemco
>.
>.
>.
>(the list is lengthier than I want to type ;) )
>
>There are also ads for things like the TI-99/2 with Bill Cosby, the 
Adam,
>the PMC-80, Ohio Scientific Challenger, Atari 400, Color Computer with
>Isaac Asimov, VIC-20 with William Shatner, etc, etc, etc...
>
>Lots of cool articles on computer technology stuff, too.
>
>If you cut up Popular Science magazines and condense them to just the
>computer stuff, you end up with a really interesting read. :)
>
>> -Seth
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
>http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 17:44:53 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
> on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
> with says:
> 
> ON                    OFF
>        "THE PILL"
> 
> This came in a box of misc Atari 800 items but I don't know where 
> it would plug into an Atari.  Anyone have any idea what it might be?

Maybe its birth control for the Atari.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 17:46:20 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Limiting message size
In-Reply-To: <yam7560.2701.6275624@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154530.18103C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Mark wrote:

> Would it be possible to enforce a maximum size for each list message in the
> classiccmp mailing list software? 20K maximum should be okay, and would prevent
> people (accidentally or on purpose) sending large files through the list, as
> just happened.
<...> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I don't think any attachment should ever be sent to a list.  It should
either be posted somewhere on the web, at an FTP site, or e-mailed
directly to the parties interested.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:10:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914155254.18103F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> There are 2 unused positions on this board. One is marked S2, and seems 
> to be for a DPDT switch. There are X-pads to cut (I guess) when you 
> install this switch. 

I found the perfect book to answer this question over the weekend.  Its
called _The Apple II Circuit Description_ by Winston D. Gayler.  It
includes in-depth technical descriptions of the Apple II and detailed
fold-out schematics of every major subsystem in the Apple II, including
the CPU, the bus pinouts, the keyboard, etc.

This should answer your question:

"Quad-mode operation--B6 is a quad-mode encoder.  This means each key can
generate up to four different characters as a function of the SHIFT and
CTRL keys.

"Lowercase--there are two bow ties on the board with the ICs [the encoder 
board].  They may be cut as a user option.  The circuit is then restored
by adding switch S2.  In the normal position of S2, the circuit functions
as previously described [ie. normal Apple II keyboard encoding].  When S2
is operated, output bits 9 and 8 are substituted for bits 5 and 6.
Encoder B6 has been programmed with ASCII lowercase letters.  This
substitution of bits will make the lowercase letters available.
Lowercase operation is as follows: with the shift key not depressed,
pressing any letter key will output lowercase.  With the shift key
pressed, pressing any letter key will output uppercase.

Numeric pad--As a user option, a nine-pin connector may be installed on
the keyboard at J2.  Then J2 can be extended to a numeric pad."

Let me know if you have any more specific questions.  This book is
excellent.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 18:15:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809142210.RAA00764@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 15:44, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Maybe its birth control for the Atari.

Ok, I was wondering how long it would be before you came back 
with that one Sam. :-)

Whatever it is, it sure is strange looking.  Guess I need to take a 
picture and put it up on the web site.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:11:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914144937.14317A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:

> As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the J2
> connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And, I
> believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads) enables
> lower case encoding.
> 
> Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard ROMs.

True.  You still needed to acquire (or burn) a character ROM with
lowercase characters.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Mon Sep 14 18:19:39 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980914161842.6998A-100000@lafleur>



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Maybe its birth control for the Atari.


Atari hasn't needed birth control since Jack Tremiel castrated it in the
mid 80's....



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:33:57 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <199809142210.RAA00764@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914163258.18103H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 14 Sep 98, at 15:44, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > Maybe its birth control for the Atari.
> 
> Ok, I was wondering how long it would be before you came back 
> with that one Sam. :-)

Geez, am I that predictable?  I guess its time for me to move on to Wit
102 since my Wit 101 gags are growing tired.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 18:32:41 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914155254.18103F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 04:10:32 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIi6v-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 18:34:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 04:11:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 19:27:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> What does most Apple ][ software (e.g. Applesoft, the p-system) do if you 
> enter commands in lower case?

On the ][ and ][+, AppleSoft and DOS 3.3 will puke.  Don't know about
Pascal, although I would venture to guess it dones't mind lowercase
characters.

Now, on the //e, AppleSoft doesn't mind lowercase, but DOS 3.3 still pukes
as it was written in an era where lowercase simply was never considered,
even as a future enhancement.

In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language
card" to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 19:43:43 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914193932.16476A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Now, on the //e, AppleSoft doesn't mind lowercase, but DOS 3.3 still pukes
> as it was written in an era where lowercase simply was never considered,
> even as a future enhancement.

A friend of mine created a product called LowerEase that added lowercase
to the Apple ][.  In addition to the character gen ROM and a shift key
mod, I thought the package also included a patch to the command-line
interpreter for Apple DOS.  IIRC, DOS intercepted the command-line input
routine for AppleSoft, so this would have worked for BASIC as well.  (I
never used his product, so I may be making this all up.)

-- Doug




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 20:31:53 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914193932.16476A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914182833.18103R-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> A friend of mine created a product called LowerEase that added lowercase
> to the Apple ][.  In addition to the character gen ROM and a shift key
> mod, I thought the package also included a patch to the command-line
> interpreter for Apple DOS.  IIRC, DOS intercepted the command-line input
> routine for AppleSoft, so this would have worked for BASIC as well.  (I
> never used his product, so I may be making this all up.)

You're making some of it up.  DOS intercepted the command line input and
only parsed out DOS commands.  If it didn't recognize a DOS command it
passed the line off to BASIC.  His DOS enhancement COULD have converted
any lowercase command line to uppercase before passing it on to BASIC so
it wouldn't puke.  That's entirely doable and would be rather elegant. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 14 21:48:17 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914052730.16947A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>
References: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <v04011702b223851ef74e@[207.220.32.235]>

>I've got a multi-cartridge adapter for the VIC-20, which I don't know how
>to use.  I got it with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it, and I
>assume that the cartridge adapter board was made so that multiple
>cartridges could be active at the same time.  So that, for example, I
>could use an 8K expander with Quick Brown Fox.
>
>The reason I say I don't know how to use the multi-cartridge adapter is
>that it has a bunch of dip switches, and I've got no manual to tell me
>what they do.  I have managed to plug in my 16K RAM Expander and various
>other carts at the same time, and had it come up with the 16K visible, but
>then I don't know the proper entry point for the software (though I've
>been able to scan through memory and see QBF there).
>
>My adapter board says "Cardboard" on it, and it has space for six
>cartridges.  And it has a reset button. :)

The one I had the rotary switch, which I gather you don't have, it was to
select the slot, you then pressed the reset button, and that rebooted with
that cartridge.  IIRC it also had the DIP switches, these were used to copy
the cartridges to cassette tape or floppy, and back to a memory cartridge.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 14 20:48:05 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
Message-ID: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>

>You're making some of it up.  DOS intercepted the command line input and
>only parsed out DOS commands.  If it didn't recognize a DOS command it
>passed the line off to BASIC.  His DOS enhancement COULD have converted
>any lowercase command line to uppercase before passing it on to BASIC so
>it wouldn't puke.

That's the way I interpreted his description of the action.

>That's entirely doable and would be rather elegant. 

Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

The only software that I extensively used on a Apple II that dealt with
lowercase characters was Paul Lutus's _Applewriter II_.  A very excellent
editor, with what amounts to almost "regular expression" search and
replace.  If only EMACS (Eight Megabytes and Continually Swapping?
Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift?) were as lean and mean!

Tim.


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 14 20:59:53 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090235.AA21995@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809150159.LAA19036@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 10:35 PM 08-09-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote:

>Or a 11/780 
>equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?

Didn't this get called a VAXstation-I. If it's the device I remember it was
one (several) Unibus cards and a fibre optic connect or was this something
different again?

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 21:03:55 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914210039.6761A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:

> Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
> the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

It hooked the command interpreter, not the low-level input routines.  It
would only uppercase commands (and I assume it was smart enough to leave
quoted strings alone).  Applications would, of course, have mixed case
input available. 

-- Doug




From rhblake at bbtel.com  Mon Sep 14 21:57:22 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
References: <199809142200.SAA16533@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FDD790.ADFE258@bbtel.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> The extra space (length) is the power supply.  I also have one of those
> drives.

I don't have a schematic in front of me but the 4869 has it's own internal
power supply.

> > Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive
> mechanism,
> > and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive
> set
> > in the backup RAM.
>
> It was made to work with the XT, plugging into a special port on the disk
> controller card.  Yes, it is a standard 360K drive.

Might be....there is also a 1.2mb version.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 22:06:38 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 17:27, Sam Ismail wrote:

> In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
> be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language card"
> to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).

Sam, are you saying ProDOS required the autostart ROM?  I have 
a II+ without the autostart ROM (swapped it for a original II ROM) 
and I believe ProDOS worked fine.  I'd have to set it up and check 
though.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 23:20:21 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914211637.23462B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:

> Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
> the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

If you're in a word processor, sure.  But when you're typing commands, you
don't want to have to worry what case you're in.  The point of converting
it in software is that you don't want to have the commands stored in a
table in memory in both upper and lower case, wasting memory.

> The only software that I extensively used on a Apple II that dealt with
> lowercase characters was Paul Lutus's _Applewriter II_.  A very excellent
> editor, with what amounts to almost "regular expression" search and
> replace.  If only EMACS (Eight Megabytes and Continually Swapping?
> Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift?) were as lean and mean!

I preferred that in my early days as well.  Then moved on to Apple Pie.
Then was impressed by AppleWorks and made the switch, occasionally using
Apple Pie for certain tasks.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 23:24:54 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 14 Sep 98, at 17:27, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
> > be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language card"
> > to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).
> 
> Sam, are you saying ProDOS required the autostart ROM?  I have 
> a II+ without the autostart ROM (swapped it for a original II ROM) 
> and I believe ProDOS worked fine.  I'd have to set it up and check 
> though.

It was speculation on my part.  However, if you ran ProDOS on the
"Integer" ROMs then I'm a bit surprised.  Perhaps I shouldn't be.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Sep 15 01:49:05 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
        "Re: Apple ][ keyboard encoder" (Sep 14, 16:11)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <9809150749.ZM10115@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 14, 16:11, Sam Ismail wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:
>
> > As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the
J2
> > connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And,
I
> > believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads)
enables
> > lower case encoding.
> >
> > Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard
ROMs.
>
> True.  You still needed to acquire (or burn) a character ROM with
> lowercase characters.

A few years ago, I made the mod and created a suitable character set ROM
image, which I burned into a 2716.  If anybody wants it, you can pick up
the ROM image at

    http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/NewCG

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:11:00 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
Message-ID: <9808159058.AA905873225@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Jim Weiler wrote:

> I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone 
> knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, 
> I'd appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim
>
> COMPUTER HAIKU
>
> Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced 
> error messages in haiku...

[Seventeen haiku
 all really hilarious
 are snipped from this point]

> Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen 
> (tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or 
> just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I 
> appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to 
> another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>

There used to be a long list at

http://www.mong.demon.co.uk/haiku.htm

but it seems to have disappeared.  I think all yours were on it - I have 
an hard copy at home.  Anyone know where it's gone?

I think Haiku error messages are a good idea, and now I work off my 
frustration by making them up for errors I get, such as:

CC:Mails are stored
all in one big database
which you can't access.

Philip.



From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:01:12 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
Message-ID: <9808159058.AA905873221@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Zane Healy wrote:

> Stuff I saw:
 
 [...]
 
> A very interesting little Tek terminal on it's own stand 

Get a better look at this.  It could be any of the following (at least):

4006
4012
4014
4051
4052
4054
4052A
4054A

I'd guess it's not a 4014 or 4054 (A or otherwise), since these are not 
in the least "little"

However 4052s of any flavour are EXTREMELY RARE.  AFAIK, the only two 
known still to exist are mine and the one in the computer museum in 
Amsterdam, Netherlands.  (If anyone knows of another 4052 or 4054 please 
let me know!)

All the TEK terminals of this date are interesting, partly because of 
the dead-end technology, viz. the storage tube.

If it is more recent than storage tube TEKs, it may still be 
interesting...

BTW, the 4050 series had computers tucked in the bottom of the terminals 
- a 6800 based micro in the 4051 and a 16 bit bitslice in the others.

To give you an idea of value, I paid roughly $200 for my 4052, and I 
have been advised by Dr Dooijes at the Dutch museum to insure it for 
$3000.  (NB he paid nothing for his).  It looks like insurance for the 
VCF is going to cost another 100 pounds...

Philip.



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 15 07:15:08 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809151215.AA18724@world.std.com>

< >Or a 11/780 
< >equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?
< 
< Didn't this get called a VAXstation-I. If it's the device I remember it 
< one (several) Unibus cards and a fibre optic connect or was this somethi
< different again?

Thats the beastie, I've used it too.  Not bad for it's day.

Allison



From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Tue Sep 15 07:39:08 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915123908Z-195594@exchange01.hersheys.com>

The Atari 8-bit FAQ mentions something about the "Pill" cartridge
copying scheme.

http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html

Jeff Salzman

>\I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
>on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
>with says:
>
>ON                    OFF
>       "THE PILL"


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Tue Sep 15 08:40:56 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809151236.HAA01332@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 21:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> It was speculation on my part.  However, if you ran ProDOS on the
> "Integer" ROMs then I'm a bit surprised.  Perhaps I shouldn't be.

Hmm, don't have a way to test that.  I was using the Applesoft 
ROMs but without the Autostart ROM.  Wonder if it would work 
with the Interger ROMs or not.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep 15 11:20:42 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
Message-ID: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

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From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Tue Sep 15 11:43:28 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
References: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <35FE9930.6D2855D6@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Marion Bates wrote:
> 
> I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the 64C looks like a 128. (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- MB

Thats the difference. The 64C looks like a 128.

Tony


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Tue Sep 15 11:41:43 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915164143Z-198853@exchange01.hersheys.com>

Mostly, there are some motherboard design difference between the two.
However, it is known that you can actually swap the boards between the
two if you preferred one case over another and have a bad unit. There
were at least 4 different board revisions, so some boards may not move
to another case. Another thing you might notice is the power supply
connector is different. There was a connector redesign between the newer
(aka 'flat C64') and older (aka 'Breadbox') C64's. The flat 64 has a
square connector where the breadbox 64 has a round one. The flat 64 also
has a different component layout due to IC consolidation. Maybe those
newer chip designs are what's overheating your system. Or it could be
the fact that the parts are closer to the outside of the case.

I'm toying with the idea of swapping boards in my systems. I only heard
that it can be done. I want a functional version of each and I have 2
working flat units and 7 dead breadboxes (of which I salvaged parts from
to get an SX-64 working). For my display units, I would like one of each
design in working order.

Hope this helps,
Jeff Salzman

>I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
>64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
>64C looks like a 128. (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats
>after about an hour or so...)
>


From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu  Tue Sep 15 12:13:37 1998
From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <199809151713.NAA20812@dgs.cs.unc.edu>

On Mon 14 Sep 1998 21:56:40, Mark <mark_k@iname.com> wrote:
] The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an external
] unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive,
] ...

Hope you didn't pay much; I have three of these available on my
"for trade" web page.  See this URL:

	http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/fortrade.html

I'm in NC, zip code 27514 (for those of you calculating postage).

	Cheers,
	Bill.


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <35FBFE24.EAE70ED@goldrush.com>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10846@smtp.interlog.com>

On 13 Sep 98 at 10:17, Larry Anderson wrote:

> > Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...
> 
>  
> > Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
> > hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
> > port on your PC.
> > 
> > http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html
> 
> There has been some discussion on this in the CBM Hacker's maillist about the
> newer parallel ports not being able to handle the voltage levels used by the
> Commodore's IEC.  Here is a copy of one of the latest in the chain:
> 
> > Subject: Re: New X1541 standard
> >    From: "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> > 
> > Hi Ruud,
> > 
> > >New X1541-cable,
> > >
> > >A lot of people happily use the X1541-cable to connect their PC with their
> > >C= equipment. I was one of them until one day my PC started to smoke. I
> > >opened my PC and found out that my I/O-card had gone to the moon. From that
> > >day on I used X1541 only in combination with an old-fashion all-TTL-ICs
> > >card and was happy again.
> > 
Larry A. , or someone could you elaborate on this. I have an X1541 cable and 
the StarCommander program to use with my PC's paralell port to transfer stuff 
to and from a C64's 1541 fdd. From what I could translate from  this exchange:
   Using the X1541 cable with "newer paralell ports" and non-"old-fashioned" 
all transister-transister logic ICs could smoke my PC , cause the "newer 
p-ports can't handle the higher voltage levels used by the Commodores IEC( ? ) 
  I monitor the CBM newsgroup and many are using this cable to get prgs. etc.
from the net to transfer to their commie and have never heard of any problems.
 What does newer or non-TTL ICs refer to in particular ? The newer CPUs that 
use 3.5 volts ? 

ciao		larry

    (Didn't snip this cause it seems relevent )

> > Happily I gone into that conclusion in very early time :-)
> > 
> > >When soldering the cable I instantly knew there was something fishy about
> > >it because I knew the lines of the IEC-bus were used to transport signals
> > >in two directions while the LPT-port had no line capable of doing this.
> > 
> > And the authors of X1541 supported programs doesn't mention risk came with it.
> > 
> > >The problem is that more and more users, including myself, have mother-
> > >boards with an onboard LPT-port and no hair on my head thinks of it using
> > >this port for things like X1541. It is easy to say to buy an extra card for
> > >this purpose but I also have no confidence in these as they are fitted with
> > >VLSI-chips as my I/O-card was.
> > 
> > >The hardware:
> > >
> > >There are two directions to go:
> > >1) using transistors, resistors etc.
> > >2) using TTL ICs
> > 
> > Or
> > 
> >  3) Use resistors in range 100-200 Ohms, so risk could be minimized (but not
> >     resolved) and programs should support that little modification :-).
> > 
> > >Another idea is to use pin 10, Acknowledge, as input for the ATN-signal
> > >because this input is capable of generating an interrupt. This can be an
> > >advantage when using the PC as diskdrive for an C64.
> > 
> > I can remember that some cards won't like correctly generate interrupts.
> > 
> > >Extra idea:
> > >
> > >The datalines of LPT-port are not used. How about connecting them to the
> > >userport for 8 bit parallel transfers?
> > 
> > I already connected and works perfectly.
> > 
> > >For the old ports this can only be used for reading but for bidirectional
> > >ports.... (And I rebuild an old one :-) )
> > 
> > Done. What about my version?
> > 
> >  http://members.tripod.com/~Frank_Kontros/easyport/cable.gif
> > 
> > OK! Needs bi-directional port, but simple.
> > 
> > >The consequence is that to use this feature the kernal has to be changed.
> > 
> > Changed successfully. Not completed, but the whole serial protocol emulated by
> > parallel way, fastload/save/verify, DOS WEDGE, F-keys.
> > 
> > >Yvo Nelemans wrote Server64 and he wrote it in Turbo Pascal :-). He stopped
> > >with the devellopment and I have decided to resume with this project after
> > >getting his permission. Server64 is meant to use the PC as diskdrive for
> > >the C64. Unfortunally it also is as slow as a standard diskdrive in
> > >combination with a standard C64.
> > 
> > I wrote it in asm, so you can compare the speedz. Just only 10 native mode drives
> > emulated and a 256K REU, but in future ... anything possible.
> > 
> > >My questions to you are:
> > >1) does anybody have detailed protocol specifications of a fastloader only
> > >using the IEC-cable (example EXOS V3) and/or its sourcecodes?
> > >2) the same for a parallel fastloader (like SpeedDos)?
> > 
> > In my opininon there are no fastloader specifications at all. All transfer
> > operations should be maximally synchronized. There are general rules, but
> > no specifications. Isn't you meant the burst protocol specifications, used
> > in 1571/81 drives?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Frank
> 
> Thought I should pass it along.  :)
> 
> P.S. Subscription info for CBM Hackers list is on my web-page - see link below.
> -- 
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
> Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
>                         http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> 
> 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:32 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <9808159058.AA905873225@compsci.powertech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>

On 14 Sep 98 at 18:11, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote:

> Jim Weiler wrote:
> 
> > I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone 
> > knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, 
> > I'd appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim
> >
> > COMPUTER HAIKU
> >
> > Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced 
> > error messages in haiku...
> 
> [Seventeen haiku
>  all really hilarious
>  are snipped from this point]
> 
> > Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen 
> > (tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or 
> > just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I 
> > appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to 
> > another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>
> 
> There used to be a long list at
> 
> http://www.mong.demon.co.uk/haiku.htm
> 
> but it seems to have disappeared.  I think all yours were on it - I have 
> an hard copy at home.  Anyone know where it's gone?
> 
> I think Haiku error messages are a good idea, and now I work off my 
> frustration by making them up for errors I get, such as:
> 
> CC:Mails are stored
> all in one big database
> which you can't access.
> 
> Philip.
> 
> 
two haikus in a message 
about haikus in a message
What a good thing Haikus are

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915123908Z-195594@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10884@smtp.interlog.com>

On 15 Sep 98 at 8:39, Salzman, Jeff wrote:

> The Atari 8-bit FAQ mentions something about the "Pill" cartridge
> copying scheme.
> 
> http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html
> 
> Jeff Salzman
> 
> >\I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
> >on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
> >with says:
> >
> >ON                    OFF
> >       "THE PILL"
> 
 If you have access to usenet , I'm sure someone at 
 comp.sys.atari.8bit which is still very active could answer
your questions.

ciao		larry  
lwalker@interlog.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 13:17:05 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

> two haikus in a message 
> about haikus in a message
> What a good thing Haikus are

This is not haiku
You must adhere to structure
Five seven five dude

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 14:23:45 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
In-Reply-To: <35FE9930.6D2855D6@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> from "Tony Dellett" at Sep 15, 98 12:43:28 pm
Message-ID: <199809151923.NAA00859@calico.litterbox.com>

I believe the C64C had a redesigned motherboard to reflect advances that had
occurred in available chips.  I know it had fewer roms, and so forth.  
I believe they also corrected defects in the power supply.  Functionally they
were supposed to be identical.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 14:31:12 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <199809151725.NAA10846@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 14, 98 01:21:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809151931.NAA00951@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, I have a question.  Why would one connect a serial peripheral - the 
1541 - to a parallel port on the PC?  The 64 uarts maxed at 2400 baud 
(at least for external serial, I think they could be programmed for up to
9600 baud)  are they communicating with the 1541 faster than that?
If not, why not create a serial port adapter, preferably designed to 
isolate the 1541 from expensive PC electronics?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark_k at iname.com  Tue Sep 15 14:33:08 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <yam7562.425.3965104@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
>>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?
>
>Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
>from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
>US$32.00.

This isn't really on-topic, but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).

Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web site at
http://www.ecma.ch/.

There is at least one ECMA standard that covers tape formats; maybe it is the
same as the mentioned ANSI standard?


-- Mark



From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Tue Sep 15 14:59:40 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
References: <199809151931.NAA00951@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35FEC72C.1A4608C@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Jim wrote:
> 
> Okay, I have a question.  Why would one connect a serial peripheral - the
> 1541 - to a parallel port on the PC?  The 64 uarts maxed at 2400 baud
> (at least for external serial, I think they could be programmed for up to
> 9600 baud)  are they communicating with the 1541 faster than that?
> If not, why not create a serial port adapter, preferably designed to
> isolate the 1541 from expensive PC electronics?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

The simple answer... It's easier to brute force the control lines and
such using the parallel port than serial port.

Tony


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 15:02:39 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <35FEC72C.1A4608C@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> from "Tony Dellett" at Sep 15, 98 03:59:40 pm
Message-ID: <199809152002.OAA01149@calico.litterbox.com>

Ah.  That makes sense.  And the problem that it's causing is an over-voltage
issue?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 15 15:15:11 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980915161511.284@trailing-edge.com>

>>Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
>>from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
>>US$32.00.
>This isn't really on-topic

I'd disagree - it certainly *is* on topic.  The standards used to produce
magnetic and other computer media are of extreme interest to me, both
professionally and otherwise :-).

> but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
>have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).

It looks to me like ECMA-13, "File Structure and Labelling of Magnetic 
Tapes for Information Interchange", may be the equivalent.

>Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
>identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web site at
>http://www.ecma.ch/.

ECMA-13 isn't available electronically, but it does indeed seem to be
the case that they will provide hardcopy free of charge.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep 15 15:21:15 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Eric Smith wrote:
Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
> As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down =
> to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's =
> auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, =
> whereas the Mac version does not.

No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Eric
--- end of quote ---

I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say:

"Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac
and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my
understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its
power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy.  The Mac drive
does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a
floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system
software.

See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.

FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa
hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific
tasks.  That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like
formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk.  The
Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it --
COPS, control oriented processing system."

-- MB


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 15:16:04 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:43:32 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980915201604.2512.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001.  The
> Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM,
> cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080.  However,
> the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
> 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped
> graphics).

The ISC 8001 used bit-mapped graphics.  Carl Friend has one in his collection:

http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/machines/ISC8001.html


From heavy at ctesc.net  Tue Sep 15 15:25:02 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>

This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally
try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim

>On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 & Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker and Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> two haikus in a message
>> about haikus in a message
>> What a good thing Haikus are
>
>This is not haiku
>You must adhere to structure
>Five seven five dude
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
>dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

             "I wish I was deep, instead of just macho."
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 15:29:55 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:34:07 -0400)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Griffiths wrote:
> And the TRS-80 would have driven Apple into receivership by 1980 if it
> hadn't been for VisiCalc -- that one product saved the whole company,
> allowing it to survive long enough to produce the Lisa and the Mac,

Having been involved with both TRS-80s and Apple ][s from 1976 to 1984,
I seriously doubt that the TRS-80 posed a serious threat to the Apple ][,
or vice versa.  Aside from Visicalc, there were still many compelling
advantages of each type of system.

> causing the plague of GUIs that haunts us more every day.  (Oh, the
> GUIs would _exist_, but there wouldn't have been so much _pressure_).

GUIs have become dominant because they are what people want.

Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.  The simple fact is that GUIs make
doing some kinds of tasks much easier.

Unfortunately many designers have seized upon that and tried to eliminate
the command-line interface entirely, not recognizing that there is another
class of tasks that are exceedingly difficult to do with GUIs.

Eric


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 15 15:48:50 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

I have in my collection a couple of Kaypro and Osborne computers.
It seems all of them have some sort of floppy drive problem.
Perhaps alignment problems or bad controllers.

I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
CP/M's.?

Thanks.. Phil


From cgregory at lrbcg.com  Tue Sep 15 15:51:28 1998
From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Fw: PCjr available to good home (Ohio)
Message-ID: <006801bde0ea$9cb94ac0$9927a2ce@cgregory>

Please contact Birger directly if you are interested in the PCjr.

Cliff Gregory
cgregory@lrbcg.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Gregory <cgregory@lrbcg.com>
To: Birger A. Bentsen <ansgar@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: PCjr


>Hi Birger,
>
>Thanks for the inquiry.  I already have a fair quantity of PCjr hardware,
so
>I really wouldn't be interested in any more at this time; however with your
>permission I can post the availability of the computer with various
>newsgroups and mailing lists that I subscribe to.  Surely there will be
>someone there who would give it a nice home.  Please don't discard this
>classic.  Let me know if it is OK to post your message.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cliff Gregory
>cgregory@lrbcg.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Birger A. Bentsen <ansgar@ix.netcom.com>
>To: cgregory@lrbcg.com <cgregory@lrbcg.com>
>Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 8:07 AM
>Subject: PCjr
>
>
>>Cliff Gregory:
>>I contacted the PCjr Club in Eugene, OR, asking if the club knew of
>>anyone who might be interested in a PCjr. I received an e-mail message
>>listing your name as someone who might be able to "find a home" for my
>>old PCjr.
>>I have one PCjr Enhanced Version in working order. I don't want to throw
>>it away, rather, I would like to find someone who might want to keep it.
>>
>>Let me know if you are interested. I live in Riverside, a suburb of
>>Dayton, OH.
>>
>>
>



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 16:03:30 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> (Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU)
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <19980915210330.2804.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote about Lisa vs. Macintosh 400K disk drives:

> No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
> white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
> doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:

> I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say:
> 
> "Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac
> and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my
> understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its
> power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy.  The Mac drive
> does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a
> floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system
> software.
> 
> See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.

I don't have Sun's Lisa repair manual (though I'd like to get one);
I have Apple's.  The replacement part numbers for Macintosh and Lisa 400K
drive mechanisms are identical.  No big surprise, since the drive was
originally designed for the Macintosh, not for the Lisa.

I've replaced broken Lisa drives with Macintosh drives, and they still
eject when the Lisa is powered down.

Furthermore, it can easily be demonstrated that if you pull the power plug
on a running Lisa, the disk doesn't eject.

And they would have needed a whopping big capacitor to store enough energy
to operate the eject mechanism once the power has failed, since there's no
signal from the computer to the disk drive that provides any advance notice
of imminent power loss.

I stand by my claim that the Lisa's power-down eject is done by software.

This was true of the Lisa's original Twiggy drive as well.  The schematics
show no sign of any power-fail detection.

> FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa
> hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific
> tasks.  That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like
> formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk.

That's also why the Lisa was so f'ing expensive.  Putting in special
hardware to handle infrequent operations like formatting disks is a
waste of money.  Anyhow, they could have used an industry-standard disk
controller chip and saved money over either the Mac or Lisa implementation,
but they didn't because that had an extremely severe case of NIH Syndrome.

> The Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it --
> COPS, control oriented processing system."

The Lisa's keyboard is no smarter (and arguably dumber) than a standard
PC keyboard.  The Lisa keyboard contains a 4-bit National Semiconductor
COPS microcontroller, which almost all PC keyboards contain 8-bit Intel
8048 or 8051-family microcontrollers.

The Lisa I/O board contains another COPS for communicating with the keyboard,
which was overkill.  It would have been completely unjustified, except that
they used it for the RTC also.  IBM added another Intel 8-bitter (8042) to
talk to the keyboard in the PC/AT, which was only actually needed because
they needed a way for the 286 processor to make some piece of external
hardware generate a processor reset in order to return from protected mode
to real mode.

Don't get me wrong; I think the Lisa is a neat machine, and I have several of
them.  But the hardware engineering tradeoffs that were made were completely
absurd, as was proven by the disappointing sales.

Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 16:12:01 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]> (message from Jim Weiler on
	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:25:02 -0500)
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com> <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <19980915211201.2875.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
> when Japan is west of us?)

A quick glance at a globe confirms that Japan is most definitely in the east.
In fact, it is east of all of the United States, with the exception of a small
portion of Alaska that happens to be in the far east.

Don't get directions confused with locations.  It is often the case that the
fastest way to get to the east is to travel west.

Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers from
the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080 clone
(though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][ clone.

Eric


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 16:29:50 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion
Message-ID: <1feea65e.35fedc4e@aol.com>

www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/index.html


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 16:33:21 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: OFFTOPIC! Re: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915143026.28408B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler wrote:

> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
> when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
> altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
> structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally

Westernized Haiku
Sucks the very great big one
Tradition is best

> try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
> in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
> adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim

It doesn't take much creativity to make a "haiku" that allows free form.
One of the beautiful things about true Haiku is the craft that goes into
each.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 13:27:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 09:24:54 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIzoy-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 13:46:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
In-Reply-To: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 15, 98 12:20:42 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ07V-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From heavy at ctesc.net  Tue Sep 15 17:07:15 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: OFFTOPIC! Re: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915143026.28408B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <v04011705b224942a28d6@[10.1.115.19]>

>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler & Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
>> when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
>> altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
>> structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally
>
>Westernized Haiku
>Sucks the very great big one
>Tradition is best
>
>> try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
>> in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
>> adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim
>
>It doesn't take much creativity to make a "haiku" that allows free form.
>One of the beautiful things about true Haiku is the craft that goes into
>each.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
>dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

I agree with you. -Jim :-)

I wish I was deep
for reasons incomprehensible
instead of just macho

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
         http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 "Transitions are golden opportunities to shake out the old, welcome
  in the new and mix to a fine blend all the possibilities that life
  has to offer. You're not falling apart, you're growing!" (unknown)


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 15 17:14:13 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
Message-ID: <199809152214.PAA08064@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers from
>the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080 clone
>(though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][ clone.

I had a Korean Apple II clone.  It was in a white case similiar to the 
Franklin Ace.  The keyboard had an ordinairy US layout, for the most 
part, but the keys were also labeled in Korean.  A key combo was used to 
switch between the two alphapbets.

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 17:37:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIzoy-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915153714.28408D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> I was under the impression (from reading the manuals, all my Apple ][s 
> have autostart and applesoft ROMs) that you could have either monitor 
> (autostart or old monitor) with either BASIC (applesoft or integer). 
> 
> Is this not the case ? Prodos may require Applesoft BASIC, but that 
> doesn't mean it needs the autostart ROM.

That's probably a safe guess.  Coming after the original ][ (I started on
the ][+) I'm not an expert on autostart vs. original ROMs and what the
older is or isn't capable of.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 18:00:34 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com>


Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Sep 15 18:04:44 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
In-Reply-To: CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com
        "RE: Tape Storage for Dummies" (Sep 15, 16:15)
References: <980915161511.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <9809160004.ZM10668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 15, 16:15, CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
> Subject: RE: Tape Storage for Dummies
[Attribution lost] wrote:
> > but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
> >have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).
>
> It looks to me like ECMA-13, "File Structure and Labelling of Magnetic
> Tapes for Information Interchange", may be the equivalent.
>
> >Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
> >identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web
site at
> >http://www.ecma.ch/.
>
> ECMA-13 isn't available electronically, but it does indeed seem to be
> the case that they will provide hardcopy free of charge.

Many of the ISO standards are just the nationally-approved copies of the
ECMA standards.  As has been pointed out, they're not all available online,
but they will supply hardcopy free -- it just takes several weeks to get
them :-)  Or you can order the ECMA CD-ROM, which has most of the
standards, including many that are not online.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 18:07:46 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 15, 98 04:48:50 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ4CL-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 18:14:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 15, 98 04:21:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ4J5-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 15 07:43:27 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple IIe SCSI II interface & CDROM Drive
References: <19980914221003.11301.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FE60EF.F9C28C3E@sprintmail.com>

I reciently purchased an Apple IIe computer. The computer was in mint
condition with every add-on you could think of and I am adding it to my
collection.
This is my first experiance with an Apple and I do not think I will ever
need the CDROM on it so I have removed it from the unit. I did not even know
that Apple IIe used CDROMS, and I know of  no software for it..

If anyone can use the combo please make me a resonable offer as I do not
need them.

1.  Apple CD model 150, external CDROM Drive
2.  SCSI interface board by CMS, SCSI II..

 I am assuming it works as the computer is in perfect condition, however it
came without any software, books or CD's.. SO I cannot guaranty it works..
Gudging by the rest of the unit it should work..

Phil...




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 19:42:00 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 16:01:38 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <199809160105.VAA13454@smtp.interlog.com>

On 15 Sep 98 at 11:17, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> 
> > two haikus in a message 
> > about haikus in a message
> > What a good thing Haikus are
> 
> This is not haiku
> You must adhere to structure
> Five seven five dude
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com

  It is a Canadian Haiku.
 We often have to tighten our belts.
 And we don't drop ehs

Oh well ,back to Watts and Suzuki.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 20:26:11 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: new additions
Message-ID: <342f69b7.35ff13b3@aol.com>

i posted an old computers wanted ad in a local newsgroup and today i came home
with a sanyo mbc-1000 cpm computer. came in its original box and plastic wrap
and included system disks and manuals and wordstar, reportstar, and datastar,
calcstar and mailmerge on original disks. i also got a star gemini10 printer.
the proof of purchase shows over $1700. system is very clean and booted up
with no problems. even has a pleasant keyclick through the speaker too. i also
got a lead on some dec stuff, but no reply back from the induhvidual yet.

david


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:40:40 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980916014041.28834.qmail@hotmail.com>





You don't have the schematics for this anywhere? The PSU is separate
and it looks like I could plug in a PC power supply if I knew pinout.
As for useful things, I would also suggest an older model printer,
a 5.25" drive, and, if possible, an 8" drive. Then, I would say a
VOM is obligatory either way.

>
>This is rapidly becoming a FAQ here - how to convert between 110V and 
>220V mains.
>
>By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It 
>doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is 
fine. 
>You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are 
>fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the 
States.
>
>If you can't find a suitable transformer, then there's a sort-of kludge 
>that works, but you need to take a little care when wiring it up.
>
>Get a mains transformer with _2_ 115V (or thereabouts) primary 
windings. 
>Such transformers are fairly common, since by connecting the primaries 
in 
>parallel you can use them in the States, and by connecting them is 
series 
>(230V) you can use them in Europe. It doesn't matter what the 
secondaries 
>are, as you're not going to use them.
>
>Connect the windings in series, like you would for 230V mains. Connect 
>the output across the 2 windings. Connect the 115V mains across one of 
>them. In effect you're using the primaries as an autotransformer.
>
>The power rating of the transformer that you use should be about twice 
>that of the computer you want to run. That gives a reasonable safety 
margin.
>
>Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
>against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
>outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever 
into.
>
>It may be possible to modify the PSU. If it uses an iron-core 50Hz/60Hz 
>transformer, then look to see if there are 2 primaries wired in series 
>for 220V mains. Connect them in parallel for 110V mains - taking care 
to 
>get the relative polarity correct. I'll not give any more details, 
>because it really depends on the PSU design what you should do.
>
>For a switcher, the input circuit is often a bridge rectifier for 230V 
>mains. If you can convert this to a voltage doubler, and if there's no 
>line-frequency transformer for a start-up supply, then it should work.
>
>A lot of switchers have 2 smoothing capacitors in series - look for 2 
>large capacitors of about 470uF at 200V. Connecting the centre-tap of 
>these to one side of the mains (after the switch/fuse/filter) will do 
it. 
>Often there's a link on the PCB (marked 'link for 115V' or something 
like 
>that) for this purpose. Again, knowing how PSUs work is a great help 
here.
>
>But I'd recomend the step-up transformer in your case. It avoids 
>modification, and it's safe.
>
>How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even 
>for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with 
the 
>following... Feel free to add things
>
>A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. 
I.e. 
>a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for 
>the states.
>
>A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
>standards (almost all will do that).
>
>An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
>
>A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program)
>
>One of those RS232 quicktesters with red/green LEDs. (I use mine more 
>than my Tektronix datacomms analyser)
>
>An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains 
>leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - 
RCA, 
>BNC, PL259, etc)
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 15 20:41:32 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
    <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <199809160141.AA09255@world.std.com>


>Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers
>from the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080
>clone (though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][
>clone.

I have a friend who has obtained the Soviet version of the pdp-11, the
UKNC, for me.  I just have to get some parts to him so that he can
complete it...

It'll even have a russian variant of RT-11 on it...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep 15 20:44:02 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980915151749.28df8b74@ricochet.net>

At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.

I came across a couple of small systems made by SIIG (who makes expansion
cards now) that are the size of a small shoebox (not my shoes; Rachel's)
and are complete systems with I/O, Video, FDC, HDC, etc.  Room for a single
3.5" floppy and one 3.5"hd.  One 16-bit expansion slot.  

Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines, but they work
great for my voicemail system (which can run fine on an 8088).  I would
love to find such a box with something more current, but SIIG doesn't
mention them on their web site.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 15 23:14:26 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at
 Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm
Message-ID: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]>

>How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even
>for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the
>following... Feel free to add things
>
>A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e.
>a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for
>the states.

One of these day's I _REALLY_ want to find time to build a "Universal"
powersupply, that will feed a basically any piece of microcomputer hardware
given the correct cabling.  Powersupplies are the first thing that
disappears after the documentation and software.

>A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV
>standards (almost all will do that).
>
>An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates

My PowerMac 8500 has a AV card in it which allows it to function as a
colour NTSC and PAL TV.  I've used it as an Amiga 2000 monitor before.

>A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program)

I like an old laptop for this, I've got an old 386sx/16 that I paid
$2600.00 for, so I like to still get a little use out of it :^)  (Yes, I
bought it new)

>An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains
>leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - RCA,
>BNC, PL259, etc)

Not only a varied assortment of cables, but also the materials to make your
own, and gender changers for DB9 and DB25 (I never have the right gender
cable).

Basically I make it a habit to collect all cables, documentation, and
powersupplies that I can, it doens't matter if I don't have a computer to
go with them.

Of course the #1 useful item is a large amount of storage space.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 15 23:18:23 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b224ec2b3dc6@[207.220.32.241]>

>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.

Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500,
A-600, A-1200?  I know that for these systems the best powersupply is the
one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From marvin at rain.org  Tue Sep 15 22:21:16 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org>

Eric Smith wrote:
> 
> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
> interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
> evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

That would depend on your definition of "forced".  There will always be
people who go their own way, but for others needing to interact with how
things are done today, "forced" is exactly what has happened.


From marvin at rain.org  Tue Sep 15 22:36:02 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
References: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35FF3222.98126C9E@rain.org>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 

> > Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
> > Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
> 
> By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It
> doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is fine.
> You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are
> fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the States.

Before I left for Europe, I checked out voltage converters here in the US. 
For about $25 or so, a 100 watt transformer can be purchased that can be
used as either a step-up or step-down transformer.  I suspect 100 watts is
the maximum short term draw, and continuous is most likely about 60 watts or
so.


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Sep 16 05:02:31 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K 
> drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) 
> which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not 
> used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa.

I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 
3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch.

Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From IVIE at cc.usu.edu  Wed Sep 16 06:26:19 1998
From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
Message-ID: <01J1V0IMBK6A8WXJ2V@cc.usu.edu>

Uncle Roger said:
>I came across a couple of small systems ...
> that are the size of a small shoebox ...
> Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ...
> I would
> love to find such a box with something more current ...

http://www.mod.com/html/desktop_products.html

The only thing that might possibly link this to being on-topic is that
this is Ken Olsen's new company.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Sep 16 07:10:56 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:

> How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even 
> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the 
> following... Feel free to add things
> 
> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. 
> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for 
> the states.
> 
> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
> standards (almost all will do that).
> 
> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates

The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
screen displays?

Phil



**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From oajones at bright.net  Wed Sep 16 07:07:25 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
Message-ID: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>

I have the following items for sale:

1. Cartridges:
Music Machine
Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs)
Fast Load
Visible Solar System
Oil's Well

2. C2N Cassette Unit

3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable)

I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone
is interested please send me email.

--Alan


From bede0005 at tc.umn.edu  Wed Sep 16 07:56:05 1998
From: bede0005 at tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <19980915210330.2804.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980916075503.14519A-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>


> > See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.
> 
> I don't have Sun's Lisa repair manual (though I'd like to get one);
> I have Apple's.  The replacement part numbers for Macintosh and Lisa 400K
> drive mechanisms are identical.  No big surprise, since the drive was
> originally designed for the Macintosh, not for the Lisa.


I have a copy of this document on my Lisa web site at
http://www.asap.net/~rbedeaux/lisa


rob



From mtapley at swri.edu  Wed Sep 16 11:22:32 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Rainbows and S/W for sale.
Message-ID: <l03102803b225944d1753@[129.162.151.33]>

All,
	spotted this on the comp.sys.dec.micro newsgroup. Please reply to
him, not me. I love my Rainbow but don't know anything about his :-) Also,
you probably should check out ftp.update.uu.se in the /pub/rainbow
directory to see whether there's anything there that might suit your
Rainbow software needs better. Or check it out to see what a wonderful
variety of reasons there is to get a Rainbow!
						- Mark
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Path:
Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.r
cn.net!rcn!news-xfer.netaxs.com!feed.centuryinter.net!not-for-mail
From: aljohnson@centuryinter.net
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro
Subject: FS:  Misc DEC Software for DEC rainbow and Hardware
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 04:52:05 GMT
Organization: CENTURYinter.net
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <N.091598.235205.05@ppp093.av.centuryinter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp093.av.centuryinter.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]
Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:67074 comp.sys.dec.micro:9067

I have misc software including wordprocessing, multiplan, operating stuff for
dec rainbows and similar machines. Have several rainbow machines and some
cables.  Parting out all of it CHEAP.  Software a buck a box,  Hardware a buck
a part.  Most but not all software is still in plastic.  Got to get rid of
it.

Please email with any question.

Allen
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From fmc at reanimators.org  Wed Sep 16 11:43:12 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: Phil Clayton's message of Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:48:50 -0400
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809161643.JAA24573@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> CP/M's.?

Kaypro: yes
Osborne: I dunno

I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
else to jump in and correct me.

-Frank McConnell



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Wed Sep 16 12:58:13 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <199809161643.JAA24573@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980916105618.1301A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> > CP/M's.?
> 
> Kaypro: yes
> Osborne: I dunno
> 
> I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
> somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
> one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
> else to jump in and correct me.

You are correct.  The Obsorne drives feed power on the drive data cable
and connecting them to other configurations tends to cause the 'magic
smoke' to escape...

I've even got a drive exerciser in the collection that has special
connections to support the Osborne drives...

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 13:18:57 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980916105618.1301A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <36000111.56FB@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

James Willing wrote:
> 
> On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
> 
> > Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> > > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> > > CP/M's.?
> >
> > Kaypro: yes
> > Osborne: I dunno
> >
> > I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
> > somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
> > one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
> > else to jump in and correct me.
> 
> You are correct.  The Obsorne drives feed power on the drive data cable
> and connecting them to other configurations tends to cause the 'magic
> smoke' to escape...
> 
> I've even got a drive exerciser in the collection that has special
> connections to support the Osborne drives...
> 
> -jim

OK I Thank everyone for the input.. Kaypro is no problem..

Then that brings me to the next question.
Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
Osborne 01?
Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?

Thanks... Phil...


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:17:48 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980916191748.7793.qmail@brouhaha.com>

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
> against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
> outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into.

I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason it's against code is that they
assume that European 220V equipment will be wired for one side of the
line being neutral, whereas a 220V outlet here in the US has both sides
hot.

If it's properly grounded equipment, this shouldn't matter.  But if it's
ungrounded equipment, it could be a safety hazard.


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Wed Sep 16 10:28:53 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <199809161905.PAA32116@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:10:56 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Phil Beesley" <PB14@leicester.ac.uk>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

> On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:

Snip!

> 
> The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
> TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
> Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
> seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
> years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
> snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
> Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
> screen displays?
> 
> Phil

Several others like Nec 3D for composite  and Iiyama MF5117 will do 
that except it can't do composite.

But, better get that Nec Multisync rebuilt with new tube (tubes are 
fairly standard nothing special about them)  and many capacitors, 
whole board resolder work if you can afford that. I don't know who is 
still making like this kind of features and this rebuilding expense 
should worth the trouble.

Jason D.

> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
> University of Leicester
> 
> Tel (0)116 252-2231
> E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk
> 
> 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:23:21 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]> (healyzh@ix.netcom.com)
References: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at
 Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]>
Message-ID: <19980916192321.7822.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> One of these day's I _REALLY_ want to find time to build a "Universal"
> powersupply, that will feed a basically any piece of microcomputer hardware
> given the correct cabling.  Powersupplies are the first thing that
> disappears after the documentation and software.

I bought one last year.  An HP E3631A.  Quite nice, but a bit pricey
(around $1000).

IMHO, having a power supply with adjustable current limiting is absolutely
essential to bringing up old DC-powered equipment in unknown condition.

For similar reasons, a variac and an isolation transformer are desirable for
working on AC-powered equipment.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:29:36 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Tue, 15 Sep
	1998 20:21:16 -0700)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org>
Message-ID: <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
> interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
> evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

Marvin <marvin@rain.org> replies:

> That would depend on your definition of "forced".  There will always be
> people who go their own way, but for others needing to interact with how
> things are done today, "forced" is exactly what has happened.

There is a small minority that dislikes GUIs.  I've seen no evidence
that any substantial number of people were forced into GUIs; most people seem
to like them.  Since deployment of Windows started as a fairly gradual thing,
and gained momentum at an exponential rate, it is obvious that the majority
of users must have preferred it.

With any new development, there will always be some group that
don't like it, but get forced along.

The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xerox
work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xerox
people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would have
happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:33:37 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk> (PB14@leicester.ac.uk)
References: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <19980916193337.7912.qmail@brouhaha.com>

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K 
> drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) 
> which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not 
> used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa.

"Phil Beesley" <PB14@leicester.ac.uk> wrote:

> I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 
> 3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch.

Furthermore, Apple implemented the switch such that it doesn't actually
force the drive to eject the disk.  If the computer configures the drive
appropriately, the switch will simply generate a request to software.
For instance, if you install an external Apple 3.5 drive or SuperDrive
(FDHD) on a Macintosh IIcx or IIci, pressing the button on the drive
causes the driver to post an event that is equivalent to hitting
Command-Shift-2 on the keyboard.

The Apple IIgs software might also use the button in this way; I haven't
checked.



From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep 16 14:54:44 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <36000111.56FB@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916125111.5111A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> James Willing wrote:
> > 
> > On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
> > 
> > > Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > > > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > > > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?

**** snip ****

> Then that brings me to the next question.
> Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
> Osborne 01?
> Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
> Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?
> 
> Thanks... Phil...

Courtesy of the chap who sent it to me some time back: 

						 - don

 
The disk controller chip used on the main logic board is the Fujitsu 8877, 
equivalent to the Western Digital 1793.  The following pinouts apply to the
disk cable connector on the main logic board.
 
pin  1  GND
     2  GND
     3  GND
     4  GND
     5  GND
     6  GND
     7  GND
     8  INDEX
     9  GND
    10  DRIVE SELECT 1
    11  +12 volts
    12  DRIVE SELECT 2
    13  +12 volts
    14  NC
    15  +12 volts
    16  4mhz clock
    17  +12 volts
    18  DIR
    19  GND
    20  STEP
    21  +5 volts
    22  WRITE DATA
    23  +5 volts
    24  WRITE GATE
    25  +5 volts
    26  TRACK 00
    27  GND
    28  WRITE PROTECT
    29  GND
    30  READ DATA
    31  GND
    32  SIDE SELECT
    33  GND
    34  LATE
 
Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts
 
  



From g at ehrich.com  Wed Sep 16 15:38:21 1998
From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: old stuff for sale
In-Reply-To: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>
Message-ID: <199809162031.NAA22750@mxu2.u.washington.edu>

I have lots of old stuff for sale on my web site at

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic

Take a look and while you are there try the

1. Riddles
2. Brain Teasers
3. HTML Color Chart
4. Sale Lists
------------------------------------------------------

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
gene@ehrich.com
Gene Ehrich   P.O. Box 209   Marlton NJ   08053-0209
------------------------------------------------------ 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep 16 14:30:08 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <199809162045.QAA22589@gate.usaor.net>

One RGB monitor that I have is a Magnavox Professional.  It has composite
input, RGB input, and another input that I don't have the cable for.  I
like it because it also is capable of displaying Monochrome (green) display
in either CGA/RGB, Composite, or Monochrome mode.  I think the third
connector is to connect it to a Hercules card, but I don't have the cable
(not the same as RGB cable.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Phil Beesley <PB14@leicester.ac.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 8:10 AM
> 
> On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even

> > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with
the 
> > following... Feel free to add things
> > 
> > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard.
I.e. 
> > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for

> > the states.
> > 
> > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
> > standards (almost all will do that).
> > 
> > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
> 
> The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
> TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
> Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
> seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
> years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
> snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
> Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
> screen displays?
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
> University of Leicester
> 
> Tel (0)116 252-2231
> E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:56:17 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916125111.5111A-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <360025F1.192A@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Don Maslin wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> James Willing wrote:
> On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
>
> Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> is it possible to use these to replace my defective CP/M drives.?
> 
> **** snip ****
> 
> Then that brings me to the next question.
> Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
> Osborne 01?
> Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
> Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?
> 
> Thanks... Phil...
> 
> Courtesy of the chap who sent it to me some time back:
> 
>                                                  - don
> 
> 
> The disk controller chip used on the main logic board is the Fujitsu 8877,
> equivalent to the Western Digital 1793.  The following pinouts apply to the
> disk cable connector on the main logic board.
> 
> pin  1  GND
>      2  GND
>      3  GND
>      4  GND
>      5  GND
>      6  GND
>      7  GND
>      8  INDEX
>      9  GND
>     10  DRIVE SELECT 1
>     11  +12 volts
>     12  DRIVE SELECT 2
>     13  +12 volts
>     14  NC
>     15  +12 volts
>     16  4mhz clock
>     17  +12 volts
>     18  DIR
>     19  GND
>     20  STEP
>     21  +5 volts
>     22  WRITE DATA
>     23  +5 volts
>     24  WRITE GATE
>     25  +5 volts
>     26  TRACK 00
>     27  GND
>     28  WRITE PROTECT
>     29  GND
>     30  READ DATA
>     31  GND
>     32  SIDE SELECT
>     33  GND
>     34  LATE
> 
> Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts

Don: 
Thanks very much for the info.. Are you saying that indeed the 360KB XT
floppy drives will work in the osborne 01, if I correctly modify the
cable ? 
Have you actually done this yourself?  Has anyone else done this before
?

Phil...


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:56:15 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980916205616.25436.qmail@hotmail.com>



No, this is an internal PSU.


>
>>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
>>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
>>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.
>
>Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500,
>A-600, A-1200?  I know that for these systems the best powersupply is 
the
>one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage.
>
>			Zane
>| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
>| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
>| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
>|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
>|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:59:29 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <19980916205930.12795.qmail@hotmail.com>





Most flat screen displays use analog SVGA signals. They're trying to
elminiate SVGA, and have pure digital signals, which is how it should
be for a TFT screen. When this happens, you'll have a harder time
using it with old machines. Eventually, CRTs may be relegated to
second place (kinda like dot matrix printers).
>> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with 
the 
>> following... Feel free to add things
>> 
>> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. 
I.e. 
>> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer 
for 
>> the states.
>> 
>> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
>> standards (almost all will do that).
>> 
>> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
>
>The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
>TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
>Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
>seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
>years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
>snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
>Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
>screen displays?
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>**************************************************************
>Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
>University of Leicester
>
>Tel (0)116 252-2231
>E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 16 16:06:25 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
In-Reply-To: <01J1V0IMBK6A8WXJ2V@cc.usu.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980916160625.2ed7be68@intellistar.net>

At 04:26 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Uncle Roger said:
>>I came across a couple of small systems ...
>> that are the size of a small shoebox ...
>> Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ...
>> I would
>> love to find such a box with something more current ...


 I have a small box made by Advanced Modular Solutions for NASA that's
about third the size of shoe box.  It's about 3" wide x 4 1/2" tall x 10"
long and has a 50 MHz 486 SLC processor with math coprocessor, 16 Mb of
memory, a 1 Gig hard drive, LAN port, serial port and 2 parallel ports, PS
2 keyboard and mouse ports and super VGA built-in.  Right now it's running
Windozes 95.  There's a picture of it and a 3/5 floppy at
"http://www.mod.com/html/simplified.html".   I'll sell it for $150 if you
want it.

   Joe



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 16 17:35:49 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> There is a small minority that dislikes GUIs.  I've seen no evidence
> that any substantial number of people were forced into GUIs; most people seem
> to like them.  Since deployment of Windows started as a fairly gradual thing,
> and gained momentum at an exponential rate, it is obvious that the majority
> of users must have preferred it.

Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major
improvement for the dopes...er non-computer types.  For guys like me its
a nuisance.  I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when
I need to do REAL work.

The last thing I want decisions on future products to be based on is
popular opinion, as that is often unreliable and contrary to what I would
prefer.  Look at the polls on Clinton for example.

> With any new development, there will always be some group that
> don't like it, but get forced along.

We don't have to accept it either.


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 17:40:06 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:35:49 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
> because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
> necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
> are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major

I *NEVER* said that GUI was better.  I said that GUIs became popular because
people liked them, not because (as someone else claimed) Apple forced it
down their throats.

Beta was technically better than VHS.  But VHS won because the consumers
preferred it.  Not the engineers, not the marketers, not the sales people.
The CONSUMERS.

And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
marketing.  If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued
to refer to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is
widely believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
in advertising.

Eric



From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep 16 18:03:12 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <360025F1.192A@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916155653.20129A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Don Maslin wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> > 

**** snip ****

> > Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts
> 
> Don: 
> Thanks very much for the info.. Are you saying that indeed the 360KB XT
> floppy drives will work in the osborne 01, if I correctly modify the
> cable ? 
> Have you actually done this yourself?  Has anyone else done this before
> ?
> 
In reverse order, Phil, no I have not done it myself.  However, I can see 
no obvious reasons why it could not be done as the drive mechanisms must 
be quite similar.  It would require some fancy 'wire-weaving' though 
considering drive placement.
						 - don

 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 12:53:48 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916014041.28834.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 15, 98 06:40:40 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJLm4-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 13:13:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 15, 98 08:14:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJM5G-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 12:57:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <35FF3222.98126C9E@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 15, 98 08:36:02 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJLpB-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 13:26:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk> from "Phil Beesley" at Sep 16, 98 01:10:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJMHi-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From jason at xio.com  Wed Sep 16 18:21:56 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
References: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>
Message-ID: <36004792.9A6CA091@xio.com>

Sold it yet? Where are you located? I'm interested, especially in the Snapshot cart.

	-jrs

oajones wrote:
> 
> I have the following items for sale:
> 
> 1. Cartridges:
> Music Machine
> Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs)
> Fast Load
> Visible Solar System
> Oil's Well
> 
> 2. C2N Cassette Unit
> 
> 3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable)
> 
> I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone
> is interested please send me email.
> 
> --Alan

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 16 18:19:41 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> Beta was technically better than VHS.  But VHS won because the consumers
> preferred it.  Not the engineers, not the marketers, not the sales people.
> The CONSUMERS.

I don't think the consumers cared either way.  They chose the technology
that had better marketing.  End of story.  This plays out time and again
in the computer industry.

> And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
> marketing.

Oh, I disagree.

> If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued to refer
> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is widely
> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
> in advertising. 

M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G

Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.

PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.

Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
caption in a magazine compels them to.  The majority of the people buying
into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From spc at armigeron.com  Wed Sep 16 16:14:54 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 10:40:06 pm
Message-ID: <199809162114.RAA29545@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Eric Smith once stated:
> 
> Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> > Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
> > because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
> > necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
> > are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major
> 
> I *NEVER* said that GUI was better.  I said that GUIs became popular because
> people liked them, not because (as someone else claimed) Apple forced it
> down their throats.

  For non-repetative interactive work, GUIs tend to be better, but once you
need to do something that's repetative, then the scripting or batch ability
of CLIs become better.

> And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
> marketing.  If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued
> to refer to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is
> widely believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
> in advertising.

  Nope.  Porn.  Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses
required to produce Betamax tapes.  The adult film industry could, however,
get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over
Betamax.  At least that's the story I heard.

  -spc (Two things drive technology:  Sex and war 8-)



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep 16 18:26:42 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <m0zJMHi-000IyRC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Sep 16, 98 07:26:31 pm
Message-ID: <199809162326.RAA00355@calico.litterbox.com>

I believe (in the US at least) there are companies making monitors for 
Nintendo machines.  These would be composite monitors as well, although 
I don't know if they have rgb inputs.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Sep 16 18:31:32 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
References: <m0zJLpB-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <36004A54.28388D45@rain.org>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> A transformer _should_ be rated for the maximum continuous RMS loading -
> and if you get one from an electronics shop, it will be ;-). Companies

I know, and that is why I bought the 50W unit.  After a while, it got rather
warm and when I checked the ratings, it said it was good for 30W
continuous.  Oh well, the breaker on it went on and off for a while before
it fused closed.  After that it *was* good for 50W continuous :).  Of
course, I kept a careful eye on how warm it was getting after that!


From IVIE at cc.usu.edu  Wed Sep 16 18:48:32 1998
From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
Message-ID: <01J1VSL7BNC29FM8TN@cc.usu.edu>

Captain Napalm said:
> Nope.  Porn.  Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses
> required to produce Betamax tapes.  The adult film industry could, however,
> get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over
> Betamax.  At least that's the story I heard.

I recently read a news story on the net regarding net.porn and porn on
DVDs. A Sony spokesman was quoted as saying the porn thing was a major
reason for the death of Betamax and they dang well were gonna make sure
people could license DVD for porn so DVD wouldn't go the way of Betamax.

Roger "Another unsubstantiated net.rumor slung your way" Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:24:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916191748.7793.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:17:48 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJQvw-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:28:41 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916192321.7822.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:23:21 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJR07-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:30:24 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <19980916193337.7912.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:33:37 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJR1n-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:05:13 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
Message-ID: <19980917000513.27738.qmail@hotmail.com>





Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's
never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's
a tradeoff between product quality and marketing quality most of the
time.
Back to GUIs, I think that a GUI is very useful for some things.
For example, let's say I want to look at the files in a directory
and copy five certain ones. It's easiest to do with a GUI. Graphical
software can use either. AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version,
not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program,
usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows
buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense. One GUI I really appreciate
is the early Mac GUI, for being almost as simple and clear as a CLI.
That was really a user-friendly computer. But the lessons of PARC and
early Apple were forgotten and turned into a who-can-make-the-nicest-
3d-menu competition.
>Oh, I disagree.
>
>> If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued to 
refer
>> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is widely
>> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
>> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this 
feature
>> in advertising. 
>
>M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
>
>Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.
>
>PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
>
>Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.
>
>Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
>majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
>caption in a magazine compels them to.  The majority of the people 
buying
>into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
>product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 16 19:06:10 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WI
< > interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And ther
< > evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

First off the early GUI interfaces were pretty primitive and deserved a
sneer.

The GUI interface we know and love is far more powerful than the originals
with the ability to manipulate data and objects.

< The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
< wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xe
< work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xero
< people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would hav
< happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.

Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.

Allison



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 19:01:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <36004A54.28388D45@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 16, 98 04:31:32 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJRVz-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 19:26:03 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:19:41 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> Oh, I disagree.
...
> M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
...
> Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.
> PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
> Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.
> 
> Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The

No, I don't see your point.  You wave around the word "Marketing" as if
it was magic.  (Which perhaps you are asserting that it is.)

However, you don't give any *evidence* to support your claims.

Although there can be no "proof" either way, I at least cited a possible
(and widely believed) non-marketing reason for the success of VHS over Beta.
You neither refuted my example, nor did you provide support for your claim
that marketing is the primary cause in your two examples.

I could just as easily claim that Mac vs. Windows and PowerPC vs. Pentium
were decided by consumers solely on the basis of cost.  I could probably
come up with half a dozen other expanations that have nothing to do with
marketing.  I don't need to invoke any mystical, unsupported "marketing"
claim.

I won't deny that marketing influences consumer perceptions and decisions;
that would be absurd.  However, I think you grossly overestimate the
degree to which marketing is able to override other considerations that
consumers may have.

For instance, before 1990, Apple had much better marketing than Microsoft,
yet Microsoft was outselling Apple by a considerable margin even then.

Eric


This isn't an argument; it's just contradiction.
No it isn't.
          -- Monty Python's argument clinic sketch


From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep 16 20:10:41 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com>

Eric Smith wrote:

> The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
> wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xerox
> work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xerox
> people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would have
> happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.

I did not say there wouldn't be GUIs.  But without the competition
between the Mac OS and Microsoft, I seriously doubt there would have
been anything close to the marketing pressure brought to bear.  Hell,
I'm using a GUI even as I type, XFree86, so I can have several xterms
visible simultaneously while I'm using Netscrape.  I'd estimate that
GUIs would have maybe 30% of the market penetration they have now
without that competition.  And yes, there's a plus -- the demands of
Windows has spurred vastly the development of video and multimedia
hardware, as well as pushing for faster CPUs.  So I can recompile my
Linux kernel in a small fraction of the time it would have taken
otherwise.  The black cloud of Windows has produced a silver lining.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 20:21:18 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:10:41 -0400)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com> <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com> wrote:
> I did not say there wouldn't be GUIs.  But without the competition
> between the Mac OS and Microsoft, I seriously doubt there would have
> been anything close to the marketing pressure brought to bear.

I still disagree.

If Apple hadn't introduced the Lisa, the war might have been between
Microsoft, Digital Research, Amiga, GEOS, or any number of other contenders.

If any one company started having even a modest amount of success with a
GUI, everyone else would have followed suit.

Eventually there would have been one hugely successful GUI, and perhaps one
moderately successful one.  Few people would care about the also-rans.


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Wed Sep 16 20:50:04 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?  & X1541 Repost
References: <199809160702.AAA19884@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <36006ACC.A92146F1@goldrush.com>

> From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
> 
> I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
> 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
> 64C looks like a 128.

Generally they are exatly the same except the 64C went through a couple of
later board revisions that noticibly cut down the chip count and the board
size (and not to mention the production cost too).

One 'bug' that resulted is that the 64C's SID chip was 'fixed' of a clicking
sound when you change volume levels.  Unfortunately that 'click' was employed
by some game and sound programmers to play digitized sounds, and without the
'click' those digitized sounds in older 64 games came out either muted or non-existant.

> (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)

I hooked in a fresh (used) 64C into my BBS couple weeks back and after about
336 hours of continual use, it doesn't seem too noticibly warm.  It may be
because the slimmer 64C case is closer to the motherboard.


------------

The X-1541 post and response were by:
           
           g.j.p.a.a.baltissen@kader.hobby.nl (Ruud Baltissen)
and
           "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>

If you want more info than what I posted, talk to them, as I am more of a
general programmer than a hardware/OS person.

       Larry
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 21:10:36 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916205925.6019C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> If Apple hadn't introduced the Lisa, the war might have been between
> Microsoft, Digital Research, Amiga, GEOS, or any number of other contenders.

There was never any O/S or GUI war.  After the PC and MS-DOS, Apple never
owned any serious hearts and minds except for a few niches like desktop
publishing and graphics design.  DR's GEM was never a serious contender,
and the Amiga never had more than a video effects niche.  Microsoft was
handed the PC monopoly and they held onto it. 

Microsoft intro'd three generations of GUIs before anybody cared, and
nobody has mentioned the real reason for the success of Windows 3.x: 
Solitaire.  Just as sex videos made VHS a standard, Solitaire is the one
thing that kept users from simply deleting Windows 3.0 after the standard
"OK, what are they up to now?" evaluation.  OK, virtual memory, multiple
MS-DOS boxes, and 3-D icons helped too, but I remember the real reason I
left Windows on my hard disk: Solitaire.

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 16 21:17:32 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809170217.AA04239@world.std.com>


< M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
< 
< Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!  MS won because intel won and several downs 
manufacturers of clones won.  Mac was a single point product that
was also for much of it's life a closed product.  People do like the 
appearence of competition so intel boxen did get a little cheaper while
Macs did have like product pressure.

< PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.

Too little to late.

Allison



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 09:45:17 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>

Here is an interesting find for all you computer buffs..
I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week.
Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
Identical
except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural white..
I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this time 1984, is it
possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ?
This machine is really cool, boots up in DOS, has the smallest dual 5-1/4
floppy I have ever seen for its time period..
Here is a WebSite that shows the Osborne version of it..

http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/encore.htm

Phil...



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 21:40:14 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916213744.6019D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week. 
> Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
> Identical except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural
> white..  I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this
> time 1984, is it possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ? 

No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.

I think the Vixen (O4) was Osborne's last machine.

-- Doug



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 09:57:31 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FFD1DB.D14A3B8D@sprintmail.com>

Reprinted form the Dead,Gone and Obsolite Computer WebSite:

The Osborne Encore is not the successor of the famous Osborne 1.
     Few times after launching the successor of the Osborne 1, the
     Osborne Executive, Osborne Corp. had serious financial problems
     and stopped all its activities. The founder of the company, Adam
     Osborne created then a research company and the result of his
     work is the Osborne Encore. It is a MSDOS computer. The Encore
     has a built-in modem (I don't know its speed). The keyboard has
     four 'icon' keys which call small program located in ROM : the
     "phone" key calls the communication software, the "clock" key
     calls a calendar, the "disk" key boots the system and the
     "calculator" key calls the little calculator. The screen can
     display only 16 lines, so only few MSDOS softwares can be used
     (the lower 9 lines are invisible). When it was conceived, the
     Encore had a 25 lines LCD screen, but when it was launched, it
     had a 16 lines screen (?).

My Machine:
The Zenith Z170 has a composite  jack that supports 24lines by 80 column, and
built in modem. Whats interesting about this computer is that it has build in
several things like a calendar, Memo pad, World map, and Calculator.. All this is
built in ROM, and runs before the machine is even booted..

> Here,s the site again if anyone wants to visit...
>
> http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/encore.htm
>
> Phil...





From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:02:10 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916213744.6019D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>



Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
> > I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week.
> > Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
> > Identical except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural
> > white..  I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this
> > time 1984, is it possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ?
>
> No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
> Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.
>
> I think the Vixen (O4) was Osborne's last machine.
>
> -- Doug

Do  you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed must be
incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
Thanks for your info..

Phil...

Take a "Look-See" for yourself..

  http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_site/page_start.htm



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 22:07:48 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Do you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed
> must be incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine.. 

The collective mind of the web is forgetful :-)  Unless a site provides
references, take the info with a grain of salt.

Here's part of a conversation between our own Don Maslin and somebody who
was actually there:
	http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=240328861

Zenith won a couple of huge gov't contracts with that machine (including
the IRS), which explains both why they're so easy to find and why there
were two models -- Z170 and Z171 (I don't remember which was the gov't
model).

-- Doug




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:50:25 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFDE40.35F3DFA1@sprintmail.com>



Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
> > Do you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed
> > must be incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
>
> The collective mind of the web is forgetful :-)  Unless a site provides
> references, take the info with a grain of salt.
>
> Here's part of a conversation between our own Don Maslin and somebody who
> was actually there:
>         http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=240328861
>
> Zenith won a couple of huge gov't contracts with that machine (including
> the IRS), which explains both why they're so easy to find and why there
> were two models -- Z170 and Z171 (I don't remember which was the gov't
> model).
>
> -- Doug

This is execellent information Doug, Thanks very much. I printed the
discussion  of the above web site for keeping with the unit. I try to get as
much information as possible whenever I find such a rare find (At least What
I thought was Rare) <Grin>

Do you know how many Adam Osborne produced, and was it before Zenith got into
the picture with it.. ?

An IRS computer Huh!!  And the Navy to, very interesting..

Phil...





From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 22:46:28 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFDE40.35F3DFA1@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916224306.6019H-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Do you know how many Adam Osborne produced, and was it before Zenith got
> into the picture with it.. ? 

Dunno.  I think they all came out about the same time.  In my experience,
the Zenith is the most common, followed by the Morrow, and the Osborne is
the rarest.  If I ever got off my butt and developed the Comprehensive
Classic Computer Registry, then you could simply take the max of the
serial numbers in the registry to give you a rough idea of production
figures.  The FCC ID of the unit will tell you who made it and when.

-- Doug




From jhfine at idirect.com  Wed Sep 16 23:22:40 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Available: PC Magazine
References: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]> <35FB469C.284F3BDB@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <36008E90.A663D76@idirect.com>

>Jerome Fine wrote:

> Hi  Collectors,
>
> I have to start cleaning things and the most obvious
> right now are about 6 feet of PC Magazine from
> about 1988 to 1994.
>
> I also will be putting a TRS 80 Model III with 2 floppy
> drives in the pot.
>
> Not finally - only the beginning, there is a lot of DEC
> QBus stuff I must sort through.
>
> If any of this is worth anything, is there anything that
> is worth trading?  Like some DEC Qbus boards
> or a PC tape drive for a W95 system - I need tape
> backup.
>
> Even boxes of floppies - 3 1/2" HD 1.44 MBytes
> or 5 1/4" DSDD 360 KBytes
> or 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MBytes
> or Zip Cartridges 100 MBytes
>
> The last thing I want to see is for the stuff to go in a
> dumpster.
>
> I am in Toronto.  Magazines are very heavy and local
> pickup would be best.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jerome Fine

Gooooooooing!!     Goooooooooing!!     G..........

Last chance.  My wife wants the stuff out.

Anyone interested???



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 17 00:00:09 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809162130.A1612-0100000@netcom4>



  To the List-Group, greetings!

  Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 
the I/O pinouts? 

  This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a 
large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted.  

  It's in prime shape  [STOP THAT!!!] and I'm wishing to make it 
part of the DEC managerie.

  Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
something the same width....

  O Yes: I would entertain the notion of purchasing (cheaply) and
having shipped a VAXVMS 5.x Grey Wall...  I saw one advertised a
while ago but it's gone now. 


  Thanks y'all


John



From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:20:32 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJQvw-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916221826.14817A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> > > Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
> > > against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
> > > outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into.
> > 
> > I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason it's against code is that they
> 
> IIRC the code says something like 'No 220V equipment under 1400W in 
> domestic use'. Very strange.
> 
> Fortunately, we don't have silly rules like that in the UK. 

Probably because you have about one tenth the percentage of lawyers that 
we have over here!  You are indeed fortunate.

						 - don
 


From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:45:18 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916224344.14817C-100000@crash.cts.com>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote:

**** snip ****

> I still disagree.
 
You certainly broadcast from an appropriate ISP!



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 00:58:19 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> I won't deny that marketing influences consumer perceptions and decisions;
> that would be absurd.  However, I think you grossly overestimate the
> degree to which marketing is able to override other considerations that
> consumers may have.

I think you grossly over-estimate the intelligence of the average American
consumer.

> For instance, before 1990, Apple had much better marketing than Microsoft,
> yet Microsoft was outselling Apple by a considerable margin even then.

You mean in DOS sales?  Then you're assigning the PCs (and therefore,
IBM's) marketing success to Microsoft? 

Sure I'm waving around marketing as the be all and end all of why people
choose one thing over the other.  Because basically that's most of what's
to it.  Like I said, marketed properly, I could sell dogshit to people and
they wouldn't be able to get enough of it.

It has a lot to do with why 10,000 owner's of castrated dogs have bought
false testicles for them called "Neuticles".  I'm not making this up.  Do
you think people start clamoring for fake pet testicles and some company
came in to fill the niche?

Anyway, I cede your point.  There is more to it than just "marketing". 
But marketing is a huge factor.  Do you think people would be clamoring
for the iMac if Apple wasn't advertising it as well as they are? 
Otherwise it'd be just another damned Mac.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:58:37 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916225443.14817D-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Doug Yowza wrote:
 
**** snip ****

> > No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
> > Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.

**** snip ****
 
> Do  you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed must be
> incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
> Thanks for your info..

Vadem was involved in a lot of things - most visibly as a software 
house.  They wrote the code for some of Ampro's EPROMs, and some some for 
the Xerox 820 as I recall.  I have no idea whether they are still around.

						 - don



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 01:06:11 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>
References: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3600A6D3289.AD5AKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:06:10 -0400
allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:

> 
> Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.

Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DOS
and the atari platform?

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 17 01:09:26 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809170217.AA04239@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917020051.17890A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> < PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
> 
> Too little to late.

Ummm...when did the PowerPC die? They just got copper interconnects!

The things are everywhere, just not on the desktops of many people. The
PowerPC family of CPUs is widely acknowledged as a sucessful product.
Beyond PeeCees and PeeCee type servers, Pentiums have little market
share. PowerPCs can be found in RS/6000s, AS/400s, cars, telecom
equipment, etc..

I do wish they were better at floating point - compared to Power2, or
even the original Power architecture, the things suck.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 01:14:29 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3600A8C5162.AD5BKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On 17 Sep 1998 00:26:03 -0000
Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote:

 
> Although there can be no "proof" either way, I at least cited a possible
> (and widely believed) non-marketing reason for the success of VHS over Beta.
> You neither refuted my example, nor did you provide support for your claim
> that marketing is the primary cause in your two examples.
> 
> I could just as easily claim that Mac vs. Windows and PowerPC vs. Pentium
> were decided by consumers solely on the basis of cost.  I could probably
> come up with half a dozen other expanations that have nothing to do with
> marketing.  I don't need to invoke any mystical, unsupported "marketing"
> claim.
> 

I agree with you. I think people are greatly oversimplifying things when
they generalize everything that happens in a marketplace that is
dominated by someone, as a win that was due to better marketing.

Marketing is a factor, but isn't the only one. 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 01:18:42 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917020051.17890A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916231755.7663E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> Ummm...when did the PowerPC die? They just got copper interconnects!

They didn't.  My point was that it didn't take the world by storm like
they had expected.  Intel won the marketing game.

> The things are everywhere, just not on the desktops of many people. The
> PowerPC family of CPUs is widely acknowledged as a sucessful product.
> Beyond PeeCees and PeeCee type servers, Pentiums have little market
> share. PowerPCs can be found in RS/6000s, AS/400s, cars, telecom
> equipment, etc..

I certainly think the PowerPC has life in it yet.  The new G3 Macs are
incredible.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep 17 16:47:27 1998
From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: CP/M Disks may be Northstar
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917214124.30337E-100000@blitzen.canberra.edu.au>


Hi,

I was showing those CP/M disks I found to a friend of mine (also a
computer collector), and some of them are marked as being for a Northstar,
if anyone is interested in these let me know, I'd like to see them go to a
good home.

Cheers
Karl


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia

Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au



From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep 17 06:38:04 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
References: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net> <36004792.9A6CA091@xio.com>
Message-ID: <3600F49C.54B6@bright.net>

Hi Jason,
I live in Pikeon, Ohio. I still have all of the items.

--Alan


Jason Simpson wrote:
> 
> Sold it yet? Where are you located? I'm interested, especially in the Snapshot cart.
> 
>         -jrs
>


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 17 07:25:36 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <199809171225.AA14569@world.std.com>


<   Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
< Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 
< the I/O pinouts? 

Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
LP-11 interfaces.

<   Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
< ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
< something the same width....

Yes.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 17 07:25:43 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809171225.AA15405@world.std.com>

 
< > Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.
< 
< Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DO
< and the atari platform?

Yes.  It started on 8bit cpm as GSS kernal and GKS graphics extensions
also with the DR Graph product.

Allison



From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep 17 07:26:37 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Tandy Model 3000 HL
Message-ID: <3600FFFC.1171@bright.net>

I'm still cleaning out my basement parts supply. I found a Tandy 3000 HL
motherboard and the owner's manual. The last time I tried this
motherboard it was acting flaky. But if anyone wants it for parts you
can have it. Just pay for shipping and its yours.

Have a nice day!

--Alan


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Thu Sep 17 08:20:31 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809162130.A1612-0100000@netcom4>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917091616.17206A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
>   Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
> Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 

I assume Printronix is still around, and most their later printers were
backwards compatible.  As least on control codes, graphics, etc.

>   This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a 
> large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted.  

That's a DataProducts parrallel interface.  Common standard in the 70's,
pretty rare nowadays.  The whole I/O board in the P300 could be swapped
for RS232, Centronics, DataProducts, or IBM coax.

>   Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
> ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 

We still use them, they're pretty easy to find.

  -Wayne




From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Thu Sep 17 08:22:38 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <199809171225.AA14569@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917092119.17206B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
> LP-11 interfaces.


Oh yeah?!  I've got a UniBus card for that.  And maybe a whole V750
available with it.  Ethan!  Where are you??

  -Wayne Cox




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Thu Sep 17 08:36:19 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <980917093619.12f@trailing-edge.com>

>  Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
>ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
>something the same width....

Have you tried 1-800-DIGITAL?  You *will* have to know the model number
of the printer you need the ribbon for.

Tim.


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 17 09:02:02 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980917090202.00d0f100@pc>

At 04:19 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
>majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
>caption in a magazine compels them to. 

Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Is it working yet?
This isn't an ordinary disembodied voice.  Only *you* hear it
in your head, so it should be extra-effective.

The usual technoid misanthropy aside, "buy what everyone else
is buying" isn't a bad strategy if it's something that's 
not central to your life.  Do you spend as much time researching,
optimizing and comparing your decisions for buying food as you
do with buying computers?

> The majority of the people buying
>into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
>product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.

Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ?  Someone's beat you to it.

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 17 08:55:33 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917000513.27738.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980917085533.00c49320@pc>

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version,
>not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program,
>usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows
>buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense.

Bad example, really.  AutoCAD has a slew of interfaces: menus, buttons, 
command-line, scripting, and several APIs for programming.  Autodesk
has been very stodgy about whether or not their products can use
parts of those interfaces that might obliquely compete with AutoCAD.
For example, I recall anecdotes regarding whether 3D Studio for DOS
was allowed to have certain numerical interfaces (the ruler?) lest
someone try to use it for CAD.

- John



From erd at infinet.com  Thu Sep 17 09:09:25 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917092119.17206B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 17, 98 09:22:38 am
Message-ID: <199809171409.KAA04489@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
> > Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
> > LP-11 interfaces.
> 
> Oh yeah?!  I've got a UniBus card for that.  And maybe a whole V750
> available with it.  Ethan!  Where are you??
> 
>   -Wayne Cox

Still in Columbus, waiting for an overhead door to my quonset hut.  If I
try and wheel an 11/750 into an open shed, I'm asking for trouble.

I haven't forgotten about picking it up, but due to outside forces, I'm
not yet ready.  This was supposed to be done weeks ago.  On the bright 
side, when it is done, I'll have a good place for the collection: a 32'x48'
quonset hut with two 12'x15' overhead doors, across the driveway from my
new (to me) house.  I'm working on aquiring some left-over 12-conductor 
fiber to connect the buildings.  :-)

-ethan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 11:32:39 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980917090202.00d0f100@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917093120.16724B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> > The majority of the people buying
> >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
> >product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.
> 
> Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ?  Someone's beat you to it.

Thank you.  My point has been proven.  These guys have marketed horse shit
in such a way as to get people to pay $19.95 for it.

I think I may actually use their service.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep 17 11:24:53 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980916184154.56df0da6@ricochet.net>

>a nuisance.  I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when

And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard
time going back to DOS-only.)  Yes, it's possible to run multiple
programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a
CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the
ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep 17 11:24:56 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980916185356.626f4e58@ricochet.net>

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's
>never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's

Never advertised, sure.  Never reviewed, possibly.  Don't think I ever saw
an ad for the Sony Mavica I've got, and I know I never read a review.
Bought it because a friend had one.

I don't recall seeing much advertising for the Voicemail system I have.
Saw a mention of it somewhere, got info, compared what it could do to
others, and bought it.  It's still the only consumer-priced system I've
seen that can do what I need it to.

The mechanics I take my (non-Land-Rover) cars to doesn't have an ad in the
phone book.  Doesn't need one; they get all the business they need by word
of mouth.  If you need a big ad, your customers aren't doing your selling
for you.  

Which of course does not mean that the majority of the idiots out there
don't buy things simply because some guy in a fancy suit says they should.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Thu Sep 17 11:43:13 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980916184154.56df0da6@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <13388663143.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Need GUI to cut and paste]

Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.
-------


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 16 07:47:48 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?  & X1541 Repost
In-Reply-To: <36006ACC.A92146F1@goldrush.com>
Message-ID: <199809171650.MAA28784@smtp.interlog.com>

On 16 Sep 98 at 18:50, Larry Anderson wrote:

> > From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> > Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
> > 
> > I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
> > 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
> > 64C looks like a 128.
> 
> Generally they are exatly the same except the 64C went through a couple of
> later board revisions that noticibly cut down the chip count and the board
> size (and not to mention the production cost too).
> 
> One 'bug' that resulted is that the 64C's SID chip was 'fixed' of a clicking
> sound when you change volume levels.  Unfortunately that 'click' was employed
> by some game and sound programmers to play digitized sounds, and without the
> 'click' those digitized sounds in older 64 games came out either muted or non-existant.
> 
> > (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)
> 
> I hooked in a fresh (used) 64C into my BBS couple weeks back and after about
> 336 hours of continual use, it doesn't seem too noticibly warm.  It may be
> because the slimmer 64C case is closer to the motherboard.
> 
> 
 I have a C64 that I had always taken as being a 64C since it is the flatter 
design case. I also have a 128. This thread raised questions about this 
assumption when it was mentioned that the 64c not only looked like a 128
but was the same dimensions. I pulled out the 2 machnes. and the 128 was 
noticeably  deeper and longer than the 64 altho it was basically the same 
design.. I checked out the label underneath and nope no "C" following the
C64. Did Commodore put out a C design case on a regular 64 ?

> ------------
> 
> The X-1541 post and response were by:
>            
>            g.j.p.a.a.baltissen@kader.hobby.nl (Ruud Baltissen)
> and
>            "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> 
> If you want more info than what I posted, talk to them, as I am more of a
> general programmer than a hardware/OS person.
> 
>        Larry
 
  Thanks Larry  (like your name :^) )  I'll toss the question out on the cscbm 
newsgroup. It's strange that no one ever mentioned the possibility of smoking
your Doze box before since so many use the X1541 cable.

 ciao		larry
						
lwalker@interlog.com


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Thu Sep 17 11:49:20 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
References: <13388663143.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <36013D8F.78B0A905@bbtel.com>

Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> [Need GUI to cut and paste]
>
> Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.
> -------

 It wasn't that long ago we were all using our mice to cut and paste in
DOS applications I beleive...

--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 17 12:15:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
In-Reply-To: <36013D8F.78B0A905@bbtel.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917130239.1223E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> > [Need GUI to cut and paste]
> >
> > Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.

But a GUI sure makes thing a great deal easier. I have to deal with things
that do not talk like a DOS, Windows, Unix, whatever box - typically Cisco
routers and a slew of different types of CSUs. If I had to use a single
screen of text to move configurations between machines, I would go nuts!
When I copy access lists, interface configurations, etc., I thank the
people that made GUIs popular. It does not matter if I am using a
Thinkpad, an old XTerm, or an Ultra - when the clock is ticking on a
maintenance window, I can use anything that makes life easier.

>  It wasn't that long ago we were all using our mice to cut and paste in
> DOS applications I beleive...

And that was not too bad - as long as you had one document to deal with.
What about developing a good sized application in C? Having separate
windows for different chunks of code is very nice.

Yes folks, technology marches on, and generally gets better...

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 12:59:31 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36014E0325.449EKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:

 
> Anyway, I cede your point.  There is more to it than just "marketing". 
> But marketing is a huge factor.  Do you think people would be clamoring
> for the iMac if Apple wasn't advertising it as well as they are? 
> Otherwise it'd be just another damned Mac.


You brought up the perfect example of how it *isn't* just marketing.

The imac did well because of:

* Good marketing of the product and...

* Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as
simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should
packaged similar to other attractive household appliances).

* People wanted a cheaper mac

* People wanted a non intel/MS based machine (some people feel very
politcally motivated to boycot MS).

* People wanted a fast but yet still cheap machine that was easier to
use then a wintel box. (Simpler OS and very simple hookups, it only has
USB and ethernet)

* Some people prefer a simple all-in-one design (not me, but some ppl).

* They have attractive educational discounts and bundles. (The
university I go too cannot stock enough of these things, to meet student
demand).

* This computer is far easier to network up in large groups. (Another
plus for schools).

* The mac platform is argueably a better platform for certain apps.

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com  Thu Sep 17 13:18:27 1998
From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion
Message-ID: <D2060E39363AD211837E00A0242979EF0FA15D@NTS_ENS4.ensemble.net>

As someone who was there, I can tell you all it was a blast.  :)  :)  :)

The turnout was pretty high and everyone was pleasntly surpised at that.
The food was even good!

Woz was great form; gratious, humble, and sense of humor fully intact;
people brought _all_ manner of Apple hardware for him to sign ;-)

So many good people, and the memories just flowed...

-Matt Pritchard
Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist
MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	SUPRDAVE@aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 15, 1998 4:30 PM
> To:	Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject:	Apple ][ programmer's reunion
> 
> www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/index.html


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 17 14:04:05 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:58:19 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980917190405.13618.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:
> However, I think you grossly overestimate the
> degree to which marketing is able to override other considerations that
> consumers may have.

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> I think you grossly over-estimate the intelligence of the average American
> consumer.

No, I most certainly don't do that.

I think you still miss my point.  I am not claiming that consumers pick
the "better" product (for any sensible definition of better).  I am claiming
that consumers will seize upon some perceived benefit of a product, and make
that product successful.  Sometimes this happens because of marketing,
but other times it happens despite the best efforts of marketing to derail
it.

This appears to be precisely what happened in the Beta vs. VHS format war.
Neither side did all that much marketing, but Sony's marketing tended to
be much better my any sensible metric.*  Neither party emphasized the
recording time per tape, or the availability of porn, the two factors
that most people agree led to the success of VHS.

Cheers,
Eric

* Some people use the success of the product as the metric for how good
the marketing was.  This is an utterly useless way of looking at it, because
it assumes from the outset that marketing is the only factor affecting
purchases.



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Thu Sep 17 18:22:31 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Rare Find
Message-ID: <000201bde292$0aedc860$a8afadce@5x86jk>

I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare but
yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing is
wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold
plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono connector.
The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has a
RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape. I
can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it.  If anyone has
anymore info on it I'd like to hear it.  John



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 17 19:31:41 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Printronix Info #2
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809171747.A21330-0100000@netcom18>



  Hello to All..

  Thank you so much for the various respomses to my P 300 inquiry. 

 In doing some research, I discovered several sites with info, but 
nothing specific about this model, other than someone here in SoCal 
who has several of them for sale ($500..... not!). I have a call in 
to see if they might have docs and, now that I know such a thing 
exists....  an RS232 or Centronics I/O card.

  I would like to re-iterate my previous request, though...   I am 
interested in buying, trading, copying, or otherwise acquiring a 
nice set of manuals for this printer..  engineering, user, etc.  I 
like to have the docs for stuff... it cuts down on the guess-work 
when they break.   ;)

  Thanks again for all the other info... and especial regards to the 
individual who took the time to FAX me some critical material on VMS 
magtape issues...  taken from an important book I don't have.  Yet.

 I am further interested in getting a VMS 5.x Grey Wall. 
Purchase/ship/trade/whatever.


  Cheers

  John




From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 17 19:33:44 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Rare Find
Message-ID: <199809180120.VAA23628@gate.usaor.net>

Sounds like some type of terminal.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: John R. Keys, Jr. <jrkeys@concentric.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Rare Find
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:22 PM
> 
> I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare
but
> yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing
is
> wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold
> plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono
connector.
> The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has
a
> RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape.
I
> can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it.  If anyone
has
> anymore info on it I'd like to hear it.  John
> 


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 20:35:11 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Web Standards Project (Off-topic but useful)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183447.24122A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I wanted to share with you guys what I learned last night at a meeting of
the Web Guild (affiliated with the Association of Internet Professionals).
Basically a SIG for web development.

The speakers introduced the audience to the Web Standards Project, which
is an effort to force web browser vendors to confirm to ONE (and
only one) standard so that the web isn't such a kludge.

Check out the whole deal at http://www.webstandards.org.  Its very
promising.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 20:35:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183514.24122B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Dominique Cormann wrote:

> You brought up the perfect example of how it *isn't* just marketing.
> 
> The imac did well because of:
> 
> * Good marketing of the product and...
> 
> * Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as
> simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should
> packaged similar to other attractive household appliances).

Do you think the socially retarded engineers at Apple designed the case? 
Hardly.  I can guarantee you it was someone more affiliated with the
marketing department. 

> * People wanted a cheaper mac

Engineers didn't decide this.  If engineers had their way your computer
you'd be able to stick your dirty dishes inside your computer and have it
wash them while you surf the web.  Engineers aren't mindful of cost (and
therefore price).  However, marketers are.

As for the next three of your points, it is speculation (and opinion) on
your part.

> * They have attractive educational discounts and bundles. (The
> university I go too cannot stock enough of these things, to meet student
> demand).

Marketing.

> * This computer is far easier to network up in large groups. (Another
> plus for schools).

I would guess marketing had a hand in defining this.

Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people are getting pissed by now of this
pointless argument.  I'll move it offline.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 20:36:02 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Gooeys
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183542.24122C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard
> time going back to DOS-only.)  Yes, it's possible to run multiple
> programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a
> CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the
> ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage.

Certainly.

One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when
was the virtual terminals.  I could switch between something like 32
different virtual terminals and be doing all sorts of stuff on each.  Very
powerful, very useful.  Its what a computer was intended to allow one to
do with it.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]





From jhfine at idirect.com  Thu Sep 17 22:06:13 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Available: PC Magazine
References: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]> <35FB469C.284F3BDB@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3601CE25.3C4024A@idirect.com>

>Jerome Fine wrote:

> Hi  Collectors,
>
> I have to start cleaning things and the most obvious
> right now are about 6 feet of PC Magazine from
> about 1988 to 1994.
>
> I also will be putting a TRS 80 Model III with 2 floppy
> drives in the pot.
>
> Not finally - only the beginning, there is a lot of DEC
> QBus stuff I must sort through.
>
> If any of this is worth anything, is there anything that
> is worth trading?  Like some DEC Qbus boards
> or a PC tape drive for a W95 system - I need tape
> backup.
>
> Even boxes of floppies - 3 1/2" HD 1.44 MBytes
> or 5 1/4" DSDD 360 KBytes
> or 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MBytes
> or Zip Cartridges 100 MBytes
>
> The last thing I want to see is for the stuff to go in a
> dumpster.
>
> I am in Toronto.  Magazines are very heavy and local
> pickup would be best.

Going!   Going!    Gone!   Well almost!

I still have everything, but so far no one has asked about the
stuff that is taking up too much shelf space - 6 feet of
PC Magazine.  A few people have contacted me about
the Qbus board and I will hold them for a while until I have
the time to sort the stuff.  I even found a PDP-11/34 I
had forgotten about which I had been saving for someone
else.  And I will also save the TRS-80  Model III for
a while.

But  the magazines will have to go by the end of next week,
out in the dumpster on September 27th at the latest.

Also, I really don't have the facilities or the cartons or
the whatever to package anything for shipping -  SO
I  AM  SORRY  TO  SAY,   LOCAL  PICKUP  ONLY!!

Also, I gave the wrong impression!  I would like to have
more floppies, i.e. receive them in trade for the above stuff.
The DSDD 360 KByte 5 1/4" floppies will be used as
RX50 in DEC systems, and the others will become RX33
and RX23.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 22:07:35 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
Message-ID: <f052f4b6.3601ce77@aol.com>

since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me
something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit
card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it
has a cable that plugs into the 8088 socket and the board does all the
processing. basically turns an xt into an at with lots of memory. i got
everything, disks manuals and the special cable. i guess for a fun vacation
project, i'll see about getting win3.1 running in standard mode or maybe even
os2 1.3 for a challenging project...

david


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 22:17:34 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <f052f4b6.3601ce77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917201624.5586A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me
> something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit
> card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it

How funny.  Back then they didn't have the clout to force computer
manufacturers to make faster hardware to run their slow, bloated
software, so they had to manufacture their own :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From nerdware at laidbak.com  Thu Sep 17 22:21:33 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980916185356.626f4e58@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <199809180319.WAA06407@garcon.laidbak.com>

Date sent:      	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@u.washington.edu
From:           	Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
To:             	"Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Subject:        	Re: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
 	consider.)
 
> Which of course does not mean that the majority of the idiots out there
> don't buy things simply because some guy in a fancy suit says they should.
> 

> Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/

 Then why did peple think that pc's were "toys" until IBM told them it was ok to 
have one? Engineers were doing great things with Apple II's, but the front office 
refused to buy them because they weren't "real computers." 

Then IBM came along with the 5150, and suddenly everyone said, "Oh. It's from 
IBM. It must be a real computer and now we must buy one."

I feel that people also dismissed the first Mac for the same reason. (I know, it 
had limited apps to start with, but wider initial acceptance would've possibly 
changed that.) If they had gone on ease of use, elegance of interface, and 
technological superiority, they wouldn't have bought slow, clunky DOS-based 
XT's instead. The Amiga suffered the same fate. Drastically superior 
technically, but perceived by the business world as only a toy. Multimedia was 
for games and kids until Gates and IBM told them that this new "multimedia" 
thing they came up with was going to be the wave of the future.

Likewise, GUI's were scorned by the business world until MS brought out 
Windows and told them it was OK to use a mouse.



Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From nerdware at laidbak.com  Thu Sep 17 22:21:33 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980917085533.00c49320@pc>
References: <19980917000513.27738.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809180319.WAA06417@garcon.laidbak.com>

Date sent:      	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:55:33 -0500
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@u.washington.edu
From:           	John Foust <jfoust@threedee.com>
To:             	"Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Subject:        	Re: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
 	consider.)

> At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
> >
> >AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version,
> >not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program,
> >usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows
> >buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense.

I don't know about Mechanical Desktop, but I use R14 everyday and it still has 
a cli. In fact, I find that several commands are much faster to type in than to try 
and find with the mouse. I use keyboard shortcuts all the time.

I know they had a Windows version of R12, but I don't know how much further 
back that goes.



Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 17 23:32:37 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <f052f4b6.3601ce77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04011700b2279279e1bb@[192.168.1.2]>

>since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me
>something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit
>card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it
>has a cable that plugs into the 8088 socket and the board does all the
>processing. basically turns an xt into an at with lots of memory. i got
>everything, disks manuals and the special cable. i guess for a fun vacation
>project, i'll see about getting win3.1 running in standard mode or maybe even
>os2 1.3 for a challenging project...
>
>david

If I remember correctly OS/2 1.3 required 3.5Mb.  Somehow I don't feel like
burrowing through the "pseudo-rack" of computer hardware that is in front
of that bookcase to check though :^)

			Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep 17 11:44:38 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>

I found the most interesting article on a web site about Gary Kildall, and
that CP/M  could have possibly been our main stream OS.. How could so many
great ideas get lost in the big shuffle..?
I know everyone has been talking about GUI's, and according to this article
Digital Research did alot of work in this area.
Also Digital Research back in 1989 released a very good DOS called DRDOS, I
used this for awhile back in 1990 and was very impressed with its features,
then MS came out with a clone of it called MSDOS ver 6.0..  I still own
several original copies of DRDOS in unopened packages..

Check out this article its very interesting:

http://www.microtec.net/~dlessard/kildall.htm

Brings me to a question does anyone have a copy of the original DOS Version
1.0 ?
I would love to load this on one of my old XT's ..

Phil...





From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep 17 23:56:45 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980917234121.31598C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> I found the most interesting article on a web site about Gary Kildall, and
> that CP/M  could have possibly been our main stream OS.

Oh my, the Mac crowd would have loved to make fun of PIP and friends.
That article reminds me of another point that hasn't yet been made in
this drawn-out discussion.  Early PC GUI's (pre-Win3) could be bound to
individual applications.  Ventura was a stand-alone GEM app.  The AOL
client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone Win
apps, but I can't remember any names.

Just one more data-point that shows that computer evolution is
application-driven, not the result of marketing magic or of religious wars
between Microsoft and Apple. 

-- Doug



From mbg at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 00:12:52 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <199809180512.AA16990@world.std.com>

I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the
similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are
simply coincidental or if there is something more to it...

It sure looked like a PIP from V3B of RT-11 (I remember we
did some comparisons back in the 80's...)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 00:39:34 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Check out this article its very interesting:
> 
> http://www.microtec.net/~dlessard/kildall.htm

I hate when people do lazy research.

CP/M actually stands for Control Program/Monitor.

While I don't know for sure, I suspected PL/M stands for Programming
Language/Monitor and not Programming Language/Microprocessor.

The Intel 4004 was NOT the first microprocessor, although that's an error
in fact that will be cleared up for good after the Vintage Computer
Festival.

By 1978, Sharp and Zenith had yet to even create computer divisions, let
alone have computers running CP/M.

Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward. 

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep 18 02:41:36 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980917234121.31598C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <v04011702b227bf045a1e@[192.168.1.2]>

>client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone Win
>apps, but I can't remember any names.

The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".  It's Windows 1.x

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 03:06:44 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Oh no, not another imporvement!
Message-ID: <9808189061.AA906131302@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Over the course of the next two weeks, here at Power Tech, we are being 
migrated from Lotus Cack-mail to Lotus Not.

It just happens that I shall be on holiday in California at the time, 
doing things like vintage computer festivals.

The concurrence of these two happenings means I am going to POSTPONE the 
list for the time being...  no saying how long it will take me to get 
back on, though!

Nice knowing you all!

Philip.



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Sep 18 03:46:37 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980917113412.2eff779a@ricochet.net>

At 09:10 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>There was never any O/S or GUI war.  After the PC and MS-DOS, Apple never
>owned any serious hearts and minds except for a few niches like desktop
>publishing and graphics design.  DR's GEM was never a serious contender,

I disagree.  There are plenty of people who are mac fanatics (or
Atari/Amiga/Etc fanatics) but because their employer/school/software
requires MS/PC stuff, they switch.  The vast majority of people who really
don't care one way or another; they just use whatever they have at
work/school/etc, or whatever their grandson said they should get, or even
what the guy at circuit city said they should use.  

Personally, I feel the lack of Mac Clones is what kill^h^h^h^h wounded the
Mac.  An awful lot of people 10-15 years ago looked at buying a full-price
Mac, a Full-price IBM/Compaq/Etc, and a PC's Limited clone, and let their
budget do the choosing.  I know I did -- I bought a used clone motherboard
and case, added a disk drive, brand-x video card with a composite monitor,
and so on.  There's no way I (or a lot of other people) could afford, let
alone justify the cost of a name brand computer.  (The same is true, to a
lesser extent of the Atari ST (which was also hampered by Tramiel) and
possibly the Amiga.)

>nobody has mentioned the real reason for the success of Windows 3.x: 
>Solitaire.  Just as sex videos made VHS a standard, Solitaire is the one
>thing that kept users from simply deleting Windows 3.0 after the standard

I agree completely on this.  Although, I explained its inclusion as a tool
to help people get used to the concept of and to practice with the mouse.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 18 04:54:59 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Classic Computers FS
Message-ID: <ad5e1f82.36022df3@aol.com>

Gentlepeople;

I am liquidating my warehouse and I have a lot of collectable computers for
sale.
Following is a rough list of what I have. If interested please e-mail
whoagiii@aol.com.

Paradise Convertable
DBS 16 (MPM)
IBC
IMI 5021H
Onyx C5000
Vector 4 
Vector 3
Kaypro II
Zeus 4
Mindset CPU only
Zorba
Plexus P/55
Chieftain S50
Altos 8000-12 with MTU (tape)
Altos 580s & 586
uSci
Cromemco systems 1, 2 & 3
XORI
Ampro Little Board 80186 MS-Dos
Lomas Data Products S100
Kurtzweil/AI KUSPPC CPU only
Morrow Decision 1 with HD/Floppy
Compupro S100
Televideo 8/16-40
Xerox 820, 8/16
Multibus dual Sun 
Intel iPDS 8080 Portable(several) wi E-prom Programmer
Intel Multibus 310s, 330s & 380s
Heath/Zenith Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives
2 other Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives
Misc 5" Hard and floppy external disk drives & cases
DEC Vax 730 Wi R80
DEC TU 81 Plus
Several RA 81s
DEC MINK 11s
DEC Rainbows & 350s
Tek 43XX & Tek terminals (Many 4025, 4028, 4029, 4105, 4107, 4108, 4109, 4208,
4211, Mice Keyboards)
HP Integrals
HP 150 I & II
HP 9810A, 9815B, 9825B, 9830B, 9845B, Many peripherals and interface cables.
Separate list availiable on request.

I am open to reasonable offers. Please reply to my e-mail address and not the
list. I am able to ship UPS, FedEX or USPS and with special arrangements,
commercial trucking.

Paxton
Whoagiii@aol.com



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 08:07:38 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
Message-ID: <199809181307.AA07643@world.std.com>

> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave
> something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length
> card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on 

I also have a card something like that.  INBOARD386PC (I have it box and 
all!), it goes in a XT class machine and gives you a 386sx/16 with 1mb 
ram.  I use it in a leading edge model D to make a nice fast sorta 
turbo-xt. I've run win3.1 on it but with 1mb of ram it's real pokey and
some apps can't eb run.

It's limitation is that the board only has 1mb of ram.  I'm on the lookout
for a matching memory card.  There were two different piggyback memory 
cards 2mb and 4mb.  also anyone have a slow (16mhz) 387math co processor 
(PGA package)?

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 08:07:46 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to 
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809181307.AA07715@world.std.com>

< I feel that people also dismissed the first Mac for the same reason. (I 
< had limited apps to start with, but wider initial acceptance would've po
< changed that.) If they had gone on ease of use, elegance of interface, a
< technological superiority, they wouldn't have bought slow, clunky DOS-ba
< XT's instead. The Amiga suffered the same fate. Drastically superior 
< technically, but perceived by the business world as only a toy. Multimed
< for games and kids until Gates and IBM told them that this new "multimed
< thing they came up with was going to be the wave of the future.

Ok, Boys and Girls.  Fetch a cup of your favorite drink and follow along.

There were events and products that had to happen before we could make the 
quantum leap of faith to GUI interfaces.  One of which was a competent and
reasonably inexpensive platform to execute on.  this is about technology
convergence on a set of parameters needed to produce a GUI based system.
I will touch on a few of them here.

At the time people were looking for more serious machines the Apples 
were in businesses as were trs80s.  S100 crates however were acknowledge 
as more potent *IF* the user was willing to get into the guts.  At the 
time of the 5150 intro S100 crates with 6mhz z80s and 8mhz 8088s were 
on the desks of some (compupro 8/16 for example) and setting the standard 
for performance that PC would not achieve for several years.

The problem as I saw it back then (1980 -early 82)was the number of 
possible systems you could buy and their attractiveness beyond 
appearance.  Apples were fast, had graphics and were fairly easy to 
configure and find tons of cheap software.  Many vendors also supported
Apples with hardware add ons like the Softcard extending it's performance 
and range of executeable software.  TRS80s were popular as they also 
offered a soft introduction for the hardware timid.  Game software may 
have factored in the Apple success at the time as well.  BUT, they were 
8bit systems.  Those that needed raw computing power and couldn't afford 
the cost of a decent PDP-11, Nova or HP system would bite the hardware 
bullet and go S100, Multibus, STD or VME busses for it.They also eyed the 
68000 and 8086 series of 16bit cpus for a bit more computational power and 
larger address spaces that their bigger programs would need.

The XT at first really was lackluster.  It wasn't until it started 
showing up with a 5 or 10 mb hard disks and at least 256-512k of ram 
that people could see it as a potential engine of greater performance than 
the Apple or the others of the time.  It offered the prople that 
hit the hardware path something less hardware intensive like the Apple 
or TRS80 but with the potential of 16bit performance.  That last item 
was selling hard at the time as the next place to be and it wasn't IBM 
alone saying that.  Even the S100 oriented knew that already.  You see 
the idea of graphics, WYSIWYG text editing and other memory intensive 
tasks were already being seen in products like DBASE, Multiplan and 
others.  This extended to push people from the floppy to larger fixed 
drives as well.  So in the end it was the need for more performance that 
would alter the shape of the early 80s computer market with the outcome 
fairly uncertain till the late 80s.  

There is no small coincidence that when 8bit systems were common storage 
of hundres of kilobytes were adaquate.  The 8088 made megabyte a word used 
and storage was in the same range.  The 80286 and the 68000 would stay in 
the megabyte range but the software was using more of it and the storage
formerly in the 5-10mb range was now reaching for the 40-80mb or more 
realm. The advent of the 32bit 386 and the faster 68010/020 made memories 
also move from the 512k to 2mb range in to the serious 2-8mb range with 
disks pushing the 100mb region and growing fast this would push RLL, EDSI 
and eventually IDE is the quest for more space.  One more notch up.

While GUIs aren't mentioned as yet, they were not the standard.  
Computer performance and graphics had to come up a notch or two to 
support that and offer acceptable prformance.  Its offering of a 
less complex user interface would take many years to be realized 
and those already knowledgable of command lines saw them as slow and 
awkard as they sometimes were.  It would take one more notch up to 
32bit computing to establish the platform that GUIs needed to succeed.  
When it happend those timid people looking for a computer solution 
without the languages and hardware jumped on the bandwagon.  Since 
Apple chose the 68000 series there were there a bit sooner and had 
polish off some of the rough edges. They were first, best didn't really 
matter.  It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the 
performance perceived to be needed to attract attention.

What was missed is that in the time line GUIs needed 32bit cpus. The
VAX, ECLIPSE, SUN and other worstations already knew that but at $50,000
or so they were not in the running.  We are talking in the under $5000
bracket throughout this dicertation. Graphics require big address spaces 
or at least larger than a 16bit word could easily provide.  Motorola was 
already there with the 68000 and Intel was still working their way to it 
and the 286 a 16 bit cpu was not it yet!  So from the time of the PC 
introduction to the day of the GUI is long, nearly seven years and lot's 
of other things had to happen along the way, each significant in it own 
right and also contributing to system as we know them now.


Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 08:07:52 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <199809181307.AA07804@world.std.com>

that CP/M  could have possibly been our main stream OS.. How could so ma
< great ideas get lost in the big shuffle..?

Yes I ahve a lot of the 8bit stuff like DRGRAPH.

< I know everyone has been talking about GUI's, and according to this arti
< Digital Research did alot of work in this area.

And real product for both 8 and 16 bit systems.

< Also Digital Research back in 1989 released a very good DOS called DRDOS
< used this for awhile back in 1990 and was very impressed with its featur
< then MS came out with a clone of it called MSDOS ver 6.0..  I still own
< several original copies of DRDOS in unopened packages..

What you missed is MPM-86 and CCPM that DRI did before DRDOS!  Btoh of 
wich were a significant advancement over DOS.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 08:07:59 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <199809181307.AA07962@world.std.com>


< I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the
< similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are
< simply coincidental or if there is something more to it...

Gary was a DEC system user and did a fair amount of cross development
on DEC platforms.  DEC systems (PDP-8, PDP10, PDP-11 and later VAX) were 
the models he knew and had used.  There is no coincidence that CP/M and 
DEC command lines and utilities were so similar.
 
Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 08:08:05 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <199809181308.AA08118@world.std.com>

< CP/M actually stands for Control Program/Monitor.
 
Yes.  Taken from the first paragraph of An Introduction to CPM features 
and facilities version 1.4  1976.  (my V1.4 manual!)

QUOTE:

CP/M is a monitor control program for microcomputer system development
which uses IBM-compatable flexible disks for backup storage. Using a
mainframe based upon Intel's 8080 microcomputer, CP/M provides a general
enviornment for program construction, storage, and editing, along with
assembly and program check-out facilities.

It goes on from there.

< While I don't know for sure, I suspected PL/M stands for Programming
< Language/Monitor and not Programming Language/Microprocessor.

No, PL/M is Programming Language/Microprocessor  It derives it's 
structure from PL/1 and can be viewd as an integer version of it
like smallc is to full C.

< By 1978, Sharp and Zenith had yet to even create computer divisions, le
< alone have computers running CP/M.

Zenith at the time was doing TVs and would later aquire Heathkit who
did already have products (H8 and H11).  generally speaking the japanese
companies like Sharp, NEC, Epson and other would be a bit later.

Allison



From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Fri Sep 18 08:48:29 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Classic Computers FS
References: <ad5e1f82.36022df3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <360264AD.DEFBE4A2@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Hi there,

Can you send a more complete list?  Also, where are you located?  It may
be easier for me to pick up the stuff rather than have you ship it to
me.

Tony

WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Gentlepeople;
> 
> I am liquidating my warehouse and I have a lot of collectable computers for
> sale.
> Following is a rough list of what I have. If interested please e-mail
> whoagiii@aol.com.
> 
> Paradise Convertable
> DBS 16 (MPM)
> IBC
> IMI 5021H
> Onyx C5000
> Vector 4
> Vector 3
> Kaypro II
> Zeus 4
> Mindset CPU only
> Zorba
> Plexus P/55
> Chieftain S50
> Altos 8000-12 with MTU (tape)
> Altos 580s & 586
> uSci
> Cromemco systems 1, 2 & 3
> XORI
> Ampro Little Board 80186 MS-Dos
> Lomas Data Products S100
> Kurtzweil/AI KUSPPC CPU only
> Morrow Decision 1 with HD/Floppy
> Compupro S100
> Televideo 8/16-40
> Xerox 820, 8/16
> Multibus dual Sun
> Intel iPDS 8080 Portable(several) wi E-prom Programmer
> Intel Multibus 310s, 330s & 380s
> Heath/Zenith Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives
> 2 other Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives
> Misc 5" Hard and floppy external disk drives & cases
> DEC Vax 730 Wi R80
> DEC TU 81 Plus
> Several RA 81s
> DEC MINK 11s
> DEC Rainbows & 350s
> Tek 43XX & Tek terminals (Many 4025, 4028, 4029, 4105, 4107, 4108, 4109, 4208,
> 4211, Mice Keyboards)
> HP Integrals
> HP 150 I & II
> HP 9810A, 9815B, 9825B, 9830B, 9845B, Many peripherals and interface cables.
> Separate list availiable on request.
> 
> I am open to reasonable offers. Please reply to my e-mail address and not the
> list. I am able to ship UPS, FedEX or USPS and with special arrangements,
> commercial trucking.
> 
> Paxton
> Whoagiii@aol.com


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep 17 21:10:14 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3601C105.74884C4A@sprintmail.com>

> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
> > Check out this article its very interesting:
> >
> > http://www.microtec.net/~dlessard/kildall.htm
>
> I hate when people do lazy research.
>
> CP/M actually stands for Control Program/Monitor.
>

Perhaps the author made a small error or typo in His or Her research, however to
say the research on this article was  "Lazy" seems a bit to strong a word on your
part.  Overall I was very impressed with this Web site and the artcle. I personally
gained a lot of knowledge from the article.. I give it an A+

BTW:   Does anyone have a genuine copy of DOS ver 1.0  ?

Phil...



From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Sep 18 09:28:01 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Gooeys
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183542.24122C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980918092801.00bfb7c0@pc>

At 06:36 PM 9/17/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when
>was the virtual terminals.

One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is 
the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at 
<http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> .

It's graphical remote-control software like the Win-world's 
pcAnywhere program, but it's not platform-specific.  They hand
out source code and define the protocol, and there are servers
available for several platforms, and viewers (controlling ends)
for even more platforms.  Incredibly, you can control your Windows
or Unix X Window box from an old DOS box, a Palm Pilot, or many
other machines.  It runs over TCP/IP, but I'm sure eventually
someone will adapt it to direct serial or dial-up interface.

What does this mean for the classic collector?  To me, it 
means being able to control old machines from different rooms,
or to put old computers to better use, allowing me to peek
into windows of my present-day computers.

- John



From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 09:57:25 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Gooeys
Message-ID: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exch001.softwright.co.uk>

>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is 
>> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at 
>> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> .

Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've
seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of
crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software
sounds awesome though, if it works... 

cheers

Jules
>


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Sep 18 09:58:34 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <3601C105.74884C4A@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <3602751A.2B676A5F@rain.org>

Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> BTW:   Does anyone have a genuine copy of DOS ver 1.0  ?

I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0.  The best I have
been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago.
Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was
upgraded?


From pb14 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Sep 18 10:16:56 1998
From: pb14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Gooeys
In-Reply-To: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exch001.softwright.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E0zK2Ib-0002TD-00@artemis.le.ac.uk>

> Date:          Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:57:25 +0100
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Julian Richardson <JRichardson@softwright.co.uk>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       RE: Gooeys
> X-To:          "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

> >> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is 
> >> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at 
> >> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> .
> 
> Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've
> seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of
> crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software
> sounds awesome though, if it works... 

Well, I thought, it's Friday afternoon and I've had a productive 
week. So I loaded the VNC server on Win 95 and loaded the VNC viewer 
on a Mac and that is what I am using now to send this message.

This actually looks like a possible way to get a monitor off my desk 
but I don't think I'll try running it on NT5 beta just yet...

Phil

**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 18 10:54:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to     consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809181307.AA07715@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918104338.23174B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the 
> performance perceived to be needed to attract attention.

The 386 was important, but not because of performance.  Virtual memory,
flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the success
of Windows 3. 

Have you ever tried GEOS?  It is a very acceptable GUI with nice
performance even on an 8088 box.  But it is a royal pain to write apps
for.  The flat address space of the 386 was a real boon to application
developers.  V86 mode made multiple DOS boxes possible.  And virtual
memory meant that Microsoft could write huge bloated applications and
people could still run them even without the 64MB RAM they required for
good performance.

-- Doug



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep 18 06:55:27 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to  consid
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980917090202.00d0f100@pc>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio .com>
Message-ID: <199809181557.LAA20002@smtp.interlog.com>

On 17 Sep 98 at 9:02, John Foust wrote:

> At 04:19 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
> >
> >Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
> >majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
> >caption in a magazine compels them to. 
> 
> Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Is it working yet?
> This isn't an ordinary disembodied voice.  Only *you* hear it
> in your head, so it should be extra-effective.
> 
> The usual technoid misanthropy aside, "buy what everyone else
> is buying" isn't a bad strategy if it's something that's 
> not central to your life.  Do you spend as much time researching,
> optimizing and comparing your decisions for buying food as you
> do with buying computers?
> 
> > The majority of the people buying
> >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
> >product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.
> 
> Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ?  Someone's beat you to it.
> 
> - John
> 
 Speaking of dogshit, why are McDonalds and so many fast food outlets 
so successfull when usually the neighborhood greasy spoon has better
tasting and quality food. To me most people have lost awareness of quality
in things. A select few overpay for "gourmet" foods but are really generally
unaware of the taste difference , it's the "status"of the thing. And if 
something has "status", it's expensive. West Indians I know complain about 
how tasteless our commercial tomatoes and other produce is. And it's because
they were broght up on food right out of a garden rather than ripening on the 
way to the market.
  I go with Sam on this, but the reason the marketing succeeds is because most 
people just don't know the difference. A mechanic who's livelyhood depends on 
his tools will go for the best he can afford based on his experience no matter 
what "The Home Handyman" says. Similiarly computer professionals will not go 
with the flow, but what they require to acomplish their tasks.  But of course 
most people only use their computers for minor tasks so they go with what
they perceive as the best considering their circumstances.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 18 11:11:43 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Gooeys
In-Reply-To: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exc
 h001.softwright.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980918091143.008afa70@mail.sfu.ca>

Sounds like an X term, it's been around for so many years, yawn.....

Kevin

At 03:57 PM 18/09/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is 
>>> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at 
>>> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> .
>
>Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've
>seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of
>crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software
>sounds awesome though, if it works... 
>
>cheers
>
>Jules
>>
>
>

==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 18 11:18:05 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    
  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918104338.23174B-100000@behemoth.host4u.n
 et>
References: <199809181307.AA07715@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980918091805.008b4240@mail.sfu.ca>

At 10:54 AM 18/09/98 -0500, you wrote:
>The 386 was important, but not because of performance.  Virtual memory,
>flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the success

Intel x86 series have anything _but_ a flat 32 bit address space! The flat
memory model is one of the positive features of the 68K series. I taught a
computer architecture course a couple of summers ago and one of the most
challenging parts of the course was explaining the addressing schemes used
on the 386 and above.

Kevin


==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 18 11:38:33 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to      consider.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980918091805.008b4240@mail.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918113358.23174D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Kevin McQuiggin wrote:

> Intel x86 series have anything _but_ a flat 32 bit address space! The flat
> memory model is one of the positive features of the 68K series. I taught a
> computer architecture course a couple of summers ago and one of the most
> challenging parts of the course was explaining the addressing schemes used
> on the 386 and above.

True, the architecture is quite "rich", but it's trivial to make the
address space look flat, and that's what most PC operating systems do
today.  Segments could have been a very powerful feature if Intel had just
given us more of them.  Imagine having every data object in its own
segment which hardware access protection and boundary checking.  This
would have been a huge boon to software reliability, but they only gave us
4096 of them!

-- Doug



From spc at armigeron.com  Fri Sep 18 09:58:23 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to      consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918113358.23174D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 18, 98 11:38:33 am
Message-ID: <199809181458.KAA00278@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Doug Yowza once stated:
> 
> True, the architecture is quite "rich", but it's trivial to make the
> address space look flat, and that's what most PC operating systems do
> today.  Segments could have been a very powerful feature if Intel had just
> given us more of them.  Imagine having every data object in its own
> segment which hardware access protection and boundary checking.  This
> would have been a huge boon to software reliability, but they only gave us
> 4096 of them!

  Intel did.  It's the 432.  Neat architecture.  Slow architecture.

  -spc (Early 80s I think ... )





From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 12:14:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <3602751A.2B676A5F@rain.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918101330.2754H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote:

> I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0.  The best I have
> been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago.
> Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was
> upgraded?

I too have a DOS 1.1 package.  I'm wondering if 1.0 was only release WITH
the PC, and was not available separately as the 1.1 upgrade was?
Someone who was paying attention back then then should be able to shed
some light on this.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From Marty at itgonline.com  Fri Sep 18 12:26:06 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.132535.1767.139605@smtp.itgonline.com>

 I have a (unsealed) copy of DOS 1.1 as well. I've never seen a copy of 
 DOS 1.0.... still looking.... Unfortunately I was out killing brain 
 cells at the time DOS 1.0 was released and have only vague hazy 
 recollections that come and go with intermittant flashbacks. What was 
 the question again?
 
 Marty
 


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/18/98 1:16 PM


 On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote:
 
 > I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0.  The best I have 
 > been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago. 
 > Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was 
 > upgraded?
 
 I too have a DOS 1.1 package.  I'm wondering if 1.0 was only release WITH 
 the PC, and was not available separately as the 1.1 upgrade was?
 Someone who was paying attention back then then should be able to shed 
 some light on this.
 
 Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Ever onward.
 
             September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                     [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
 
 
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From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 18 12:38:36 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Classic Computers FS
Message-ID: <de53a172.36029a9c@aol.com>

Gentlepeople:

Sorry, I am located in Portland, Oregon. 

I also have a bunch of 8" floppys both HH & FH, Shugart, Tandon, CDC,
Mitsubishi & NEC. Also some 8"HDs, Quantum etc. 
All untested.
Any interest?

Paxton Hoag


From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 18 12:42:15 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809181742.AA26632@world.std.com>


< > It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the 
< > performance perceived to be needed to attract attention.
< 
< The 386 was important, but not because of performance.  Virtual memory,
< flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the succes
< of Windows 3. 

Isn't that what I meant!  Performance is not exclusivly a speed metric.
All those features of the 386 (its 32bitness) is the performance improment 
required to make GUI software more praticeable.  However it's address 
space while better than the 286 is anything but flat.  Look at teh 68k for 
the definition of a flat address space.

< Have you ever tried GEOS?  It is a very acceptable GUI with nice

Yes, long time ago.

Allison



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Sep 18 12:53:51 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Classic Computers FS
In-Reply-To: <de53a172.36029a9c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980918105207.25387A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

I might know somebody here in the Portland area that might be interested.
I'll chat with him on Monday and let you know.

It must be fall cleaning as it sounds like the collections are starting to
move around again.  Sounds like musical chairs.

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> Gentlepeople:
> 
> Sorry, I am located in Portland, Oregon. 
> 
> I also have a bunch of 8" floppys both HH & FH, Shugart, Tandon, CDC,
> Mitsubishi & NEC. Also some 8"HDs, Quantum etc. 
> All untested.
> Any interest?
> 
> Paxton Hoag
> 



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Fri Sep 18 12:56:20 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: PDP-8 Core stack
Message-ID: <36029EC4.F1B00BAA@freegate.com>

I'm looking for a G104 and G227 cards for a PDP-8 (these are two of the
three cards needed for a 4K core stack) Alternatively a complete 4K or
8K core stack would be sufficient :-)

--Chuck McManis


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Sep 18 12:58:33 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Tandy 10 MB HD info
In-Reply-To: <de53a172.36029a9c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980918105534.25412A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

What is needed to connect a 10 MB HD (Model 25-1025) to either a Model III
4 or 4P?  Does is connect to something else (Color Computers?)?
I noticed the back of this drive has connections for both data and
control.

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Fri Sep 18 13:39:24 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183514.24122B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917183514.24122B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3602A8DC15B.A921KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:

 
> > * Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as
> > simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should
> > packaged similar to other attractive household appliances).
> 
> Do you think the socially retarded engineers at Apple designed the case? 
> Hardly.  I can guarantee you it was someone more affiliated with the
> marketing department. 



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Fri Sep 18 14:29:27 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Gooeys
In-Reply-To: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exch001.softwright.co.uk>
References: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exch001.softwright.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3602B497B0.A922KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:57:25 +0100
Julian Richardson <JRichardson@softwright.co.uk> wrote:

> >> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is 
> >> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at 
> >> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> .
> 
> Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've
> seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of
> crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software
> sounds awesome though, if it works... 
>

Yup its very much for real, and has been around for a while. 

I use it a lot to 'control' my home LAN. I have 3 NT machines at home,
connected to the internet via a cable modem. I sometimes like to talk to
them at school, so I just walk over to a internet capable win95/nt
machine at school and run the internet client (i carry it on a floppy).
This is over the universities T1.

I have also used it from a laptop, over a dialup 28.8. The client
program is really small. It can easily sit on a floppy, and run off it.

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Sep 18 14:33:44 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:39:34 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980918193344.19418.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> The Intel 4004 was NOT the first microprocessor, although that's an error
> in fact that will be cleared up for good after the Vintage Computer
> Festival.

I'll look forward to hearing about that.  But the 4004 was certainly the
first mass-produced microprocessor, which is more significant.

Cheers,
Eric


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Fri Sep 18 14:50:52 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918101330.2754H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3602B99C.29E5@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:

> I too have a DOS 1.1 package.  I'm wondering if 1.0 was only release WITH
> the PC, and was not available separately as the 1.1 upgrade was?
> Someone who was paying attention back then then should be able to shed
> some light on this.

I really would love to get even just a copy of DOS Ver 1.0, OK! I'll
settly for Ver 1.1 DOS.. I have an old XT thats is needs it really bad..
I'll send ya a return postage paid diskette mailer for a copy, can
anyone help ?

I also have a copy someone gave me of Windows Ver 1.0 , have never tried
it yet..
Has anyone seen this yet ?
--Phil


From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Sep 18 14:47:07 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <3601C105.74884C4A@sprintmail.com> (message from Phil Clayton on
	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:10:14 -0400)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <3601C105.74884C4A@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <19980918194707.19489.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> BTW:   Does anyone have a genuine copy of DOS ver 1.0  ?

What kind of DOS?  I've used several different operating systems on radically
different machines that all were called DOS version 1.0.

Assuming you're talking about IBM-DOS, though, I do have a copy somewhere.
I don't recall whether it was version 1.0 or 1.00.

AFAIK, Microsoft never released MS-DOS with a version number of 1.0.  The
earliest I ever saw was 1.11, released at about the same time as IBM DOS 1.10,
and soon followed by MS-DOS 1.25.

Personally, I think 86-DOS and QDOS are more interesting.  I've got an 86-DOS
manual set but no disks.


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 14:56:52 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
Message-ID: <19980918195653.22186.qmail@hotmail.com>





Did Microsoft actually make the hardware, like this thing and the
Softcard? I'm pretty sure  that their modern hardware (mice, joysticks
talking barney) are licensed from someone else.
>
>> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone 
gave me
>> something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full 
length 8 bit
>> card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on 
it. it
>
>How funny.  Back then they didn't have the clout to force computer
>manufacturers to make faster hardware to run their slow, bloated
>software, so they had to manufacture their own :)
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Sep 18 14:50:29 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <3602751A.2B676A5F@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Fri, 18 Sep
	1998 07:58:34 -0700)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917223045.13720A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <3601C105.74884C4A@sprintmail.com> <3602751A.2B676A5F@rain.org>
Message-ID: <19980918195029.19515.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Marvin <marvin@rain.org> wrote:
> I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0.  The best I have
> been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago.
> Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was
> upgraded?

Not very long.  Most people have forgotten that IBM DOS 1.0 only supported the
160K disk format (single-sided, 8 sectors per track).  In fact, most people
have forgotten that there even *was* a 160K format, but the DOS FORMAT command
supports it to this day, along with the 180K and 320K formats, and the much
better known 360K format.


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 18 15:17:59 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Halted Specialties
In-Reply-To: <36029EC4.F1B00BAA@freegate.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980918131759.008a1b70@mail.sfu.ca>

Hi Chuck:

Unfortunately I don't have any spare pdp-8 core stacks, but I just wanted
to mention that I was in San Jose a couple of weeks ago, from Vancouver BC,
and saw your advert there about your quest for an ASR-33. Funny to talk to
you on the net and then see your poster up there at the store!

I wonder if you ever found one? I did, by the way, find those omnibus edge
connectors, at Gateway Electronics in San Diego! If you're still in need
they have plenty more. I have a friend in San Diego who could grab some for
you. $2 each.

Kevin


At 10:56 AM 18/09/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a G104 and G227 cards for a PDP-8 (these are two of the
>three cards needed for a 4K core stack) Alternatively a complete 4K or
>8K core stack would be sufficient :-)
>
>--Chuck McManis
>
>

==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 15:39:30 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <19980918193344.19418.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918133721.2879B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 18 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> > The Intel 4004 was NOT the first microprocessor, although that's an error
> > in fact that will be cleared up for good after the Vintage Computer
> > Festival.
> 
> I'll look forward to hearing about that.  But the 4004 was certainly the
> first mass-produced microprocessor, which is more significant.

There's no doubt that the 4004 had significance.  But not as much
technically as Intel would want you to believe.

And I think an argument could be made that the microprocessor to be
unveiled at the Vintage Computer Festival was "mass-produced".  It was
produced in significant quantities to say the least.  It had to be.  It
provided the control for one of America's most lethal flying machines.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 16:07:27 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918140241.2879E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky.  They've
got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around
in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with.

I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using
computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers
were too expensive.  I had one design based on a //c, but this was around
1986 when the //c was still relatively new.

Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable
computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of),
disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers
to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
just a few bucks.

An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea
market parts.  It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
board.  This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.

Man, I wish I was a kid again!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Sep 18 16:13:48 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to      consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809181458.KAA00278@armigeron.com> (message from Captain
	Napalm on Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:58:23 -0400 (EDT))
References: <199809181458.KAA00278@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: <19980918211348.19854.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Captain Napalm <spc@armigeron.com> wrote:
>   Intel did.  It's the 432.  Neat architecture.  Slow architecture.

Slow architecture results in commercial failure.  But it was
incredibly neat.  It could best be characterized as a VCISC; it had
a *much* more complex architecture than a VAX.

Part of the reason it was slow was that they were pushing the limits of
1980 technology to fabricate it, so they couldn't actually fit the
main processor (GDP, for General Data Processor) onto a single chip.
They had to split it into two chips, of which the 43201 was the instruction
decoder and microsequencer, and the 43202 was the execution unit.
Unfortunately due to packaging limitations the microinstruction bus between
the two chips was not wide enough to support single-cycle microinstruction
execution.

The 432 was a capability-based architecture.  Objects were divided into
two portions, an access part and a data part.  The access part could only
store access descriptors (pointers to other objects), while the data part
could store anything but access descriptors.  This allowed efficient
implementation of Dijkstra's parallel garbage collection.  Unfortunately
each part of the object is limited to 64 kilobytes.

Intel claimed that the 432 was designed for Ada.  Actually, it was
designed before Ada, and it merely happened that Ada proved to be a
particularly suitable language for it.  However, the first HLL for the
432 that Intel provided to customers was a variant of Rosetta Smalltalk
called OPL:
	http://www.rosetta.com/TechHistory.html#opl-432

432 GDP instructions were of variable size, from 6 to 344 bits, depending
on the number of operands (0-3) and the addressing modes.  Intel had an
assembler for the DECsystem-10, but never shipped it to customers.  The
cross-development environment for Ada ran on the VAX.

The 432 GDP did not do an I/O operations.  There was a 43203 IP (Interface
Processor), which was used in conjunction with an AP (Attached Processor),
typically an 8086.  The IP wasn't really a processor in the conventional
sense of the word, in that it didn't execute stored programs.  It executed
commands provided by the AP in order to control five memory windows that
allowed the AP to access objects in the 432 memory space.

The 432 supported 16 megabytes of physical memory, and an extremely large
virtual space.  Intel designed a persistent object store as part of the
iMAX-432 operating system, however the persistent object store implementation
was never shipped to customers.

Other chips in the 432 set included the 43204 BIU (Bus Interface Unit) and
43205 MCU (Memory Control Unit).  Using the complete chipset, it was easy
to design systems with full fault-tolerance.  All of the chips were designed
to be usable in pairs to support FRC (functional redundancy checking), in
which one component was the master and one was the checker.  The checker
performed exactly the same computations as the master, but instead of driving
bus signals, it compared its own results with those of the master, and
signalled an error if there was a mismatch.  The master and checker roles
were exchanged on alternate bus cycles in order to insure that there were
no latent faults in the checker.

FRC alone isn't enough to build a fault-tolerant system, because if a failure
is detected, it is not known which of the two components failed.  So pairs of
FRC modules could be operated in lock step for QMR (Quad Modular Redundancy).
When an FRC pair fails, the board is disabled and the other board is known
to have valid state.  Under the direction of software, several recovery
methods were possible.  The remaining module could continue operating without
a backup, in which case the system is no longer fault-tolerant.  The module
could be shut down, in which case the system is still fault-tolerant but
has lower performance.  Or the module could be paired with a spare module
reserved for that purpose.  The hardware provided mechanism, but the
software determined the policy.

Although it is out of print, the most easily found reference on the 432
is _A_Programmer's_View_of_the_Intel_432_System_ by Elliot Organick.

Anyone still have any 432 docs, hardware, or software?

Cheers,
Eric


From william at ans.net  Fri Sep 18 16:48:21 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to      consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980918211348.19854.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918173534.28617I-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Slow architecture results in commercial failure.  But it was
> incredibly neat.  It could best be characterized as a VCISC; it had
> a *much* more complex architecture than a VAX.

[lots of good i432 info snipped]

Yes, it was a slow architecture, but IBMs S/38 was as well, and it led to
one of the most sucessful lines of minis since the PDP-11, the AS/400s.
Both the i432 architecture and the S/38/AS/400 architecture were quite
similar - the heavy use of objects, memory space neither flat or
segmented, very strict accessing of objects. I think the difference could
have been "marketing" (that word again!) - put IBM's sales force out,
armed with bulletproof OS/applications, and the boxes will sell. I do not
think Intel could have done that back then. Look at how the i860 flopped -
a screaming fast CPU for floating point, but it died when Microsoft, their
only real ally for the chip, cut it out of their NT plans (OK, so their
was that pipeline problem).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net





From kozmik at wave.home.com  Fri Sep 18 17:56:56 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Gooeys
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980918091143.008afa70@mail.sfu.ca>
References: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980918145725Z-5213@exc h001.softwright.co.uk> <3.0.5.32.19980918091143.008afa70@mail.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <3602E53865.E24DKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:11:43 -0700
Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi@sfu.ca> wrote:

> Sounds like an X term, it's been around for so many years, yawn.....
>

Its not xterm, or based on x technology.

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 12:46:47 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <v04011702b227bf045a1e@[192.168.1.2]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 17, 98 11:41:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zK4cM-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From amc358 at interserv.com  Fri Sep 18 18:09:48 1998
From: amc358 at interserv.com (Albert J. McCann, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <v04011702b227bf045a1e@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <000001bde35c$2e13fc40$55519ad1@albertj>

> On Friday, September 18, 1998 3:42 AM, 
> CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> wrote:

> >client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone Win
> >apps, but I can't remember any names.

> The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".  
> It's Windows 1.x

Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows.

Al McCann


From fauradon at pclink.com  Fri Sep 18 18:34:39 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <001201bde35c$e8349b20$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

What's keeping you?
I had the same wishes when I was a kid and somehow I still have them.
Unfortunately they have evolved too: as a kid I wished I had a robot that
could stack blocks (whoopee) or one that would run around without bumping in
the furnitures (prety advanced). Today I wish I had one that would vacuum
when it's needed, pick up the toys the kids leave all around the house, wash
my car and changes the cat litter.
What I'm getting at is that what we dreamed of as kids is not, by todays
standards, dream material anymore: you have those programable cars and all
sorts of talking toys (some of them animated) so the novelty and feeling of
innovation or creation is not the same. Dreaming of building a robot that
can pile blocks or solve the hanoi towers is not quite as fascinating as
beating the big bad dude on level four of the latest nintendo game.
But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and
gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I have
the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have
recorded in notebooks.
In 1994 I started working on one "project" thinking to bring it to market,
built a prototype thought of a better way to do it and wanted to make a
second proto but it involved much more money than what I had at the time and
it got filed with the rest. That is until I saw my idea in a catalog earlier
this week. So I fired Quake II and logged on a server and fragged for the
rest of the evening.
Boy I feel like rambling today.
Anyway there is not much that prevents from building the stuff you want, you
just need to know what you want and how you want to do it and stick to it.
Or did you loose that drive, that desire to build and bring innanimate
things to (artificial) life?

Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 4:10 PM
Subject: Kids these days


>
>I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky.  They've
>got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around
>in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with.
>
>I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using
>computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers
>were too expensive.  I had one design based on a //c, but this was around
>1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
>
>Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable
>computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of),
>disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers
>to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
>just a few bucks.
>
>An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea
>market parts.  It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
>"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
>board.  This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
>
>Man, I wish I was a kid again!
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 18:51:28 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918165020.8366J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get
one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
been powered in over a decade perhaps.  What can I do to warm up the caps
and transformer before bringing it fully online?  Anything?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:57:13 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com>





But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
giving me ideas. I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts. They are
powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
and they'll still work. BTW, where do all of those researchers get
neural network chips?
>
>I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and 
using
>computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the 
computers
>were too expensive.  I had one design based on a //c, but this was 
around
>1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
>
>Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of 
salvageable
>computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out 
of),
>disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the 
computers
>to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
>just a few bucks.
>
>An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and 
flea
>market parts.  It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
>"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
>board.  This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
>
>Man, I wish I was a kid again!
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 19:04:24 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Transformer
Message-ID: <19980919000425.10783.qmail@hotmail.com>


I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 'traveling
abroad'. There is a price range, with some 'for heating appliances
only' (the cheapest) and the higher priced ones allow motors, and
the $34 ones allow electronic devices. What is the difference among
these units? Also, could a transformer such as in these theoretically
be reversed and used for step-up purposes?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Fri Sep 18 19:16:44 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: [getting off topic, sort of] Re: Kids these days
References: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3602F7EC.D56F55B3@freegate.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
> giving me ideas.

There is an incomplete description about how to build a robot out of a
3.5" floppy drive. To qualify as a "classic" computer I'm guessing that
one should use at least a 5.25" floppy and perhaps a 8" floppy. The
"metal" in that case is the drive structure itself.

> I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
> Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts.

Actually that is Mark Tilden and he is working at Sandia National
Laboratory.

> They are
> powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
> and they'll still work.

Actually, Mark call's them 'Nervous Nets' and they are something he
invented. They use about $0.50 in parts.

> BTW, where do all of those researchers get
> neural network chips?

You presume complexity, they are nothing but a couple of op-amps biased
into a non-linear feedback loop. Stop thinking digital, think analog,
its cheaper.

--Chuck


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 19:14:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <001201bde35c$e8349b20$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918170344.8366M-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Francois wrote:

> What I'm getting at is that what we dreamed of as kids is not, by todays
> standards, dream material anymore: you have those programable cars and all
> sorts of talking toys (some of them animated) so the novelty and feeling of
> innovation or creation is not the same. Dreaming of building a robot that

Sure.  But that's what I was getting at.  There's so much advanced
tinkering that can be done very cheaply that we didn't have available to
us. 

> can pile blocks or solve the hanoi towers is not quite as fascinating as
> beating the big bad dude on level four of the latest nintendo game.

I don't think that's true at all.  I think the really creative kids would
much rather build their own robot or program their own computer than sit
on their ass all day and play games.  The problem is the atmosphere is
different.  Everything is so nicely packaged that you don't need to get
inside your machine and learn about it.  I think this needs to change.

> But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and
> gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I have
> the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have
> recorded in notebooks.

Me too.  But my parts are all stashed in thrift stores, waiting for me to
pick them up :)

> In 1994 I started working on one "project" thinking to bring it to market,
> built a prototype thought of a better way to do it and wanted to make a
> second proto but it involved much more money than what I had at the time and
> it got filed with the rest. That is until I saw my idea in a catalog earlier
> this week. So I fired Quake II and logged on a server and fragged for the
> rest of the evening.

What idea was that?

> Anyway there is not much that prevents from building the stuff you want, you
> just need to know what you want and how you want to do it and stick to it.
> Or did you loose that drive, that desire to build and bring innanimate
> things to (artificial) life?

I'm not talking about me.  I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these
days could be having if they discovered classic computers.

Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's
19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore).  He built some sort of
digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller!
It sounds wild.  He said it can do actual useful work, such as image
processing.  I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to
exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival.  He said its very large and
would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him
get it to the venue.  That sort of project should inspire many people
around his age to embark on similar projects of their own.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 19:16:49 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918171504.8366N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're

Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores.  Also, look
around!  Scrap yards, flea markets, etc.  You can find many sources for
the raw materials for the framework.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 18:21:46 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: PDP-8 Core stack
In-Reply-To: <36029EC4.F1B00BAA@freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 18, 98 10:56:20 am
Message-ID: <m0zK9qX-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 18:29:26 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <19980918195653.22186.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 18, 98 12:56:52 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 18:31:32 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918140241.2879E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 18, 98 02:07:27 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 18:42:54 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Dataproducts interface
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From fauradon at pclink.com  Fri Sep 18 19:54:14 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <001001bde368$0639d800$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>


Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
>Sure.  But that's what I was getting at.  There's so much advanced
>tinkering that can be done very cheaply that we didn't have available to
>us.

I see the lego and K'nex stuff, follow the directions and there you are!


>I don't think that's true at all.  I think the really creative kids would
>much rather build their own robot or program their own computer than sit
>on their ass all day and play games.  The problem is the atmosphere is
>different.  Everything is so nicely packaged that you don't need to get
>inside your machine and learn about it.  I think this needs to change.

Exactly, with todays "creative sets" all the creativity is removed and
prepackaged: you can buld a dino or a tower of death then you play with it
for five minutes and get bored. Then you go back to your nintendo where you
still have to figure out the secret of the grotto on level twelve.
I'm not against nintendo and the such but they make entertainment easy and
readilly available: no looking for parts, no playing with sharp objects or
solvent based glue, they are the ideal "babysitters".

>> But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and
>> gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I
have
>> the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have
>> recorded in notebooks.
>Me too.  But my parts are all stashed in thrift stores, waiting for me to
>pick them up :)


I used to build stuff from old recycled materials, a few nails and lots of
paint, they were "analog robots" (kid power)

>What idea was that?
Do a web seach on "Slam Man"


>I'm not talking about me.  I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these
>days could be having if they discovered classic computers.

Got your point and I aggree but I guess the problem is more the shortage of
nerdy kids rather than their lack of imagination. As a classic collector you
must have gone to quite a few swapmeets or hamfest. I have not attended one
without seeing at least half a dozen kids with caddies or huge backpacks and
filling them up with anything marked free.
I think they are (the nerdy kids) having a bunch of fun with classics.
 I can tell you that my kids (I hope they end up like me:) will have lots of
stuff available for them to tinker with.

>Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's
>19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore).  He built some sort of
>digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller!
>It sounds wild.  He said it can do actual useful work, such as image
>processing.  I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to
>exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival.  He said its very large and
>would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him
>get it to the venue.  That sort of project should inspire many people
>around his age to embark on similar projects of their own.
Please keep pressuring him.
I wish I could help local kids in projects and getting they interest on
classic computers but there are no programs that deal with that here and
it's a real pain to set one up if you don't have an educator's degree.


Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep 18 15:53:15 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980917234121.31598C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809190055.UAA18645@smtp.interlog.com>

On 17 Sep 98 at 23:56, Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> > I found the most interesting article on a web site about Gary Kildall, and
> > that CP/M  could have possibly been our main stream OS.
> 
> Oh my, the Mac crowd would have loved to make fun of PIP and friends.
> That article reminds me of another point that hasn't yet been made in
> this drawn-out discussion.  Early PC GUI's (pre-Win3) could be bound to
> individual applications.  Ventura was a stand-alone GEM app.  The AOL
> client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone Win
> apps, but I can't remember any names.
> 
 There's an excellent stand-alone art program and image processor called 
Neopaint from OSCS Software Development, Inc. not to be confused with Neochrome 
which was shipped with the Atari ST. It works with Dos 3.1 and up or DRDOS 
on any PC, XT, x86 and a Hercules, CGA,EGA,VGA,or SVGA card. It requires 640k 
and a mouse. Not sure when it came out but suspect late 80's. I suspect it's 
GEM-based.
  I think the importance of GEM is often overlooked. The Berkley GEOS 
for Commodores is obviously GEM despite the disclaimers of C=  proponents.
The Atari ST had GEM 1.2 in Rom and was never forced to relinquish it by
Apple.Why ? The DR GUI versus Apple is the key IMHO. I see that DR's
copyright was 1985.
 One of the things that drove the acceptance of the GUI was that office 
managers could train new employees to use a computer in a day using point and 
click rather than having to remember the multitude of CLI instructions. Gates
simply jumped on a bandwagon that was already there. The DR <> MS relationship
is also another interesting link. TMK DR's successor Caldera still owns the 
MSDOS source-code. Not sure of the ins and outs of this.

> Just one more data-point that shows that computer evolution is
> application-driven, not the result of marketing magic or of religious wars
> between Microsoft and Apple. 
> 
> -- Doug
> 

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep 18 15:53:14 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <199809181307.AA07643@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809190055.UAA18673@smtp.interlog.com>

On 18 Sep 98 at 9:07, Allison J Parent wrote:

> > since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave
> > something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length
> > card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on 
> 
> I also have a card something like that.  INBOARD386PC (I have it box and 
> all!), it goes in a XT class machine and gives you a 386sx/16 with 1mb 
> ram.  I use it in a leading edge model D to make a nice fast sorta 
> turbo-xt. I've run win3.1 on it but with 1mb of ram it's real pokey and
> some apps can't eb run.
> 
> It's limitation is that the board only has 1mb of ram.  I'm on the lookout
> for a matching memory card.  There were two different piggyback memory 
> cards 2mb and 4mb.  also anyone have a slow (16mhz) 387math co processor 
> (PGA package)?
> 
> Allison
> 
 I've got an Intel Inboard card, but mounted in a 5150 with a Plus hardcard. 
I've also been searching for the piggyback with no luck so far. Would adding
a 387 co-processer speed applications up significantly ? I'm also on the 
lookout for an 8-bit VGA card for this set-up. I have a 16-bit card with a
switch for either 9 or 15 pin connectors. I don't suppose this would work
in the 8-bit 5150 would it ? I know some 16-bit cards will work in an 8-bit.

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From ddameron at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 18 19:57:49 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
Message-ID: <199809190057.RAA21433@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

At 04:51 PM 9/18/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get
>one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
>been powered in over a decade perhaps.  What can I do to warm up the caps
>and transformer before bringing it fully online?  Anything?
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
Connect a light bulb in series with the 120 volt line and power supply. Say
60 watts. The large caps you can estimate their capacity by seeing how long
they will light a small lamp after the supply is turned off. (12 Volts for
the +8Volt line, 24V for the +/-18 volt). Or you can time the discharge from
the bleeder resistors.
-Dave



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 19:42:12 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918165020.8366J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 18, 98 04:51:28 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKB6O-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 19:46:34 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 18, 98 04:57:13 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 19:54:04 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <19980919000425.10783.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 18, 98 05:04:24 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 18 19:57:26 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918170344.8366M-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 18, 98 05:14:40 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKBL6-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Fri Sep 18 20:19:36 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
Message-ID: <980918211936.12e@trailing-edge.com>

>I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get
>one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
>been powered in over a decade perhaps.  What can I do to warm up the caps
>and transformer before bringing it fully online?  Anything?

The "poor man's" substitute for a variac has always been a 120V light
bulb in series with the AC.  For something like an unloaded IMSAI
power supply, a small (15W or so) bulb might be best for starters.

That said, the capacitors are standard off-the-shelf items, and if you
do blow 'em up, just put in some new ones.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Fri Sep 18 21:00:31 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809181828.A22684-0100000@netcom12>



   Slightly off-topic, yet topical...

  I have, over the years taught many ham-radio license classes to 
hundreds of people, a good percentage of them kids, generally from 
age 10-11 and up. Apart from the required information relevant to 
the actual FCC questions..  I stress science, technology, and D-I-Y 
projects..  from the simplest 555-based LED flasher to working radio 
sets and computer interfacing. I go to ham radio swap meets and buy 
up all the old scopes and meters I can find, and then make them 
available to kids for the price of promising to *use* the gear.

  I like to use junk printers for robot supplies, because the 
control and drive electronics are already there, as well as an easy 
way of making them move via print commands sent to a parallel or 
serial port of any computer.  Sam and those of you who are robot 
aficianados...  I have seem some pretty fancy devices made up of the 
steppers and servos from old unwanted printers...  especially the 
big old wide carriage dot-matrix units from 10 or more years ago, 
whose motors were big and pwerful.

 And there are a few young scientists left out there, in and among 
the Beavis And Butthead clones thronging our schools.  Sigh.  Don't 
get me started....


  Cheers

John




From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Fri Sep 18 21:03:14 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
Message-ID: <4525f3c2.360310e2@aol.com>

installing the mathco will wont speed up anything EXCEPT for programs that USE
it. i bought an xt that had a 16 bit vga card in it. i dont know if every 16
bit vga card works in an 8bit slot, but i guess it's worth a try anyway.  

david

In a message dated 98-09-18 21:14:47 EDT, you write:

<<  I've got an Intel Inboard card, but mounted in a 5150 with a Plus
hardcard. 
 I've also been searching for the piggyback with no luck so far. Would adding
 a 387 co-processer speed applications up significantly ? I'm also on the 
 lookout for an 8-bit VGA card for this set-up. I have a 16-bit card with a
 switch for either 9 or 15 pin connectors. I don't suppose this would work
 in the 8-bit 5150 would it ? I know some 16-bit cards will work in an 8-bit.
 
 ciao		larry  >>


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 18 19:50:25 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809190216.WAA00758@gate.usaor.net>

> I'm not talking about me.  I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these
> days could be having if they discovered classic computers.
> 

Hey - I'm one of 'em.  I've got an old drafting table in my basement
covered (and full of) obsolete (286 and older) computer stuff.  It's also
scattered various places in my house.

> Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's
> 19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore).  He built some sort of
> digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller!
> It sounds wild.  He said it can do actual useful work, such as image
> processing.  I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to
> exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival.  He said its very large and
> would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him
> get it to the venue.  That sort of project should inspire many people
> around his age to embark on similar projects of their own.
> 
I'm only 15...  I had a few plans for a few things, but the only problem is
that I need to find an EPROM programmer and some old chips.  Any idea where
to get one - cheap??

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 18 19:53:36 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809190216.WAA00770@gate.usaor.net>

A couple of times, I've used old pie tins.  I would make a mold out of
something (like packed sand), and hold the pie tin with a tong-thing, and
melt it into the mold using a blow torch.  It's not the world's best thing,
but it works pretty good for making things like wheels.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Kids these days
> Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:16 PM
> 
> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> > But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
> 
> Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores.  Also, look
> around!  Scrap yards, flea markets, etc.  You can find many sources for
> the raw materials for the framework.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
> 


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 21:30:09 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809190216.WAA00758@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918192913.351C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> I'm only 15...  I had a few plans for a few things, but the only problem is
> that I need to find an EPROM programmer and some old chips.  Any idea where
> to get one - cheap??

Keep scouring those ham fests or swap meets.  Check the web for the one
nearest you.  If its too far away, convince Dad or Mom to take you by
mowing the lawn and cleaning up your room like you're told :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From jrice at texoma.net  Fri Sep 18 21:38:29 1998
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918140241.2879E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36031925.BF9C19C0@texoma.net>

Sam you don't have to be a kid.  I belong to the DPRG (Dallas Personal
Robotics Group)...we;re grown men who always wanted to those very
things.  We meet once a month, several times a month for dinner and a
couple of times a month informally in some one's garage to work on our
'bots.  We have careers, families, mortgages and all of the other
distractions of m,odern life.  We salvage components, use what ever we
can find, beg, borrow, scrounge to build our machines.  We hold a
contest twice a year to demo our skills.  We fabricate PC boards for
subassemblies.  It's a lot of fun...I just wish I had more spare tiome
for it.

James

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky.  They've
> got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around
> in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with.
> 
> I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using
> computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers
> were too expensive.  I had one design based on a //c, but this was around
> 1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
> 
> Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable
> computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of),
> disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers
> to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
> just a few bucks.
> 
> An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea
> market parts.  It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
> "brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
> board.  This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
> 
> Man, I wish I was a kid again!
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 09/12/98]


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Fri Sep 18 21:38:00 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <19980918.214119.174.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

OKay, for 2000 bonus points and the game, what was Micrografx Designer
when it was first
released under windows 1.X? (this is on topic as that was more than ten
years ago).

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:09:48 -0400 "Albert J. McCann, Jr."
<amc358@interserv.com> writes:
>> On Friday, September 18, 1998 3:42 AM, 
>> CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
>> wrote:
>
>> >client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone 
>Win
>> >apps, but I can't remember any names.
>
>> The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".  
>> It's Windows 1.x
>
>Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows.
>
>Al McCann
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 18 21:48:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809190255.WAA06769@gate.usaor.net>

> 
> Keep scouring those ham fests or swap meets.  Check the web for the one
> nearest you.  If its too far away, convince Dad or Mom to take you by
> mowing the lawn and cleaning up your room like you're told :)

That doesn't always work.  luckily, there's one every year pretty nearby. 
That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how they
all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em).  I was planning on
using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it work
by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Fri Sep 18 21:32:17 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809190255.WAA06769@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980918212622.30824A-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>



> That doesn't always work.  luckily, there's one every year pretty nearby. 
> That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how they
> all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em).  I was planning on
> using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it work
> by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC.

If you go to Doug Jones' page at the University of Iowa:

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~djones

he has a link to some documentation and source code for gutting out
floppy drives so that you can control the stepper and spin the drive 
motor.

I thought of doing two of those, put wheels on the steppers, use two to 
push it around in various directions, mount a pair plastic replicas of 
table-saw blades on the drive motors, mount those on top and then do some 
code on a microcontroller that would look at an up-pointing photocell, 
move the thing around until it was hiding under someplace dark, then wait 
until some forward looking sensors saw movement and then pop out, spin 
the phoney saw blades and trip one of those digital recorder chips to play 
the sound of a chain saw or table saw and have it chase the 
movement...just to scare the bejeesus out of people.  =-D

Twisted fun for the whole family!

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 18 23:07:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918210434.351D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Ok, so I have a 15W bulb in series with the P/S and it lit up.  The fan
didn't start blowing until the second time I powered up, but its blowing,
albeit very slowly due to the limited power I assume.

I didn't go the full Tony route because doing so would've required
desoldering the entire transformer which wasn't an attractive prospect.

I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and
-17.86.  A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load.

At this point I feel pretty comfortable that the P/S is working pretty
well, which surprised me.  I expected a fight (but was hoping for the
results I got).  These old machines just refuse to die.

I'm going to let it warm up for about an hour before I start plugging in
boards.

Thanks to Dave, Tony and Tim for your help!!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Fri Sep 18 22:19:40 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918210434.351D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980918221811.30824B-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>



> I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and
> -17.86.  A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load.

Actually, I think most power supplies in S100 mainframes tend to run a 
bit high so they can handle the load and because it doesn't matter since 
each board has it's own regulators anyway.

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead



From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Fri Sep 18 22:42:01 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:42 2005
Subject: Source for Fuzzball?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918210434.351D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980918224010.30824C-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>


I have the disk images for Fuzzball but tats.wizvax.com does not appear 
to exist anymore and I'm looking for the sources.  I'm not going to say 
why because I don't want to be accused of perpetuating vaporware later 
but I'm interested in any OS that can implement TCP/IP on 'minimal' 
hardware compared with modern machines.

Can anyone point me to the sources?  I've looked around quite a bit and I 
can't find them.

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead


From kozmik at wave.home.com  Fri Sep 18 23:42:26 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918133404.2879A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <3602A8DC15B.A921KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918133404.2879A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36033632399.C140KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:

 
> Woz designed the Apple 1 with the goal of using as few chips as possible
> because for him it was a mental exercise.  He mentions this time and again
> in numerous interviews.  Having it inexpensive to replicate was a
> by-product.

That isn't true. If you re-read those interviews. You'll read how he
spent most of his time going through catalogues finding the cheapest
chips first, then deciding what kind of machine he could best make from
those chips.

One of the goals of the Apple I was to create a low cost machine.

Basically I just wanted to give an apple example that not all engineers,
all of the time, want to built the biggest, and most expensive things.
That is a bad generalization.

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From ddameron at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 19 00:16:39 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
Message-ID: <199809190516.WAA20025@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

At 10:19 PM 9/18/98 -0500, Wirehead wrote:
>
>> I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and
>> -17.86.  A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load.
>
>Actually, I think most power supplies in S100 mainframes tend to run a 
>bit high so they can handle the load and because it doesn't matter since 
>each board has it's own regulators anyway.
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
On some (static memory and other) cards the linear regulators get quite hot
with the high input voltages. Doesn't help here that the 117 Volts is
sometimes 122 Volts or higher. For these systems I run them with a 12V
transformer wired as a 120 to 108V step down (buck) autotransformer. I first
tried with a variac to see how low the voltage can go, usually below 100V
with supplies with a lot of "margin", such as many of those open frame
linear supplies. It also helped a Heath H-19 terminal which also has a
linear power supply.

A slightly related matter, I found that some XT motherboards can run on only
5 volts, using a 1.44 floppy. I did this many years ago using a 12 Volt
battery directly as input to a 5V regulator as power supply. Not very
noteworthly now with all the portables.
-Dave




From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sat Sep 19 00:27:40 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918210434.351D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.c
 om>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980918222740.03890de0@agora.rdrop.com>

THrowing in my $0.02 here...

At 09:07 PM 9/18/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>Ok, so I have a 15W bulb in series with the P/S and it lit up.  The fan
>didn't start blowing until the second time I powered up, but its blowing,
>albeit very slowly due to the limited power I assume.

When its powered down, give the fan a spin with your finger.  It should
spin freely.  If not, it should be replaced.  The older bronze/oilite
bearings dried out and would start to stiffen up after a souple of years of
operation.

>I didn't go the full Tony route because doing so would've required
>desoldering the entire transformer which wasn't an attractive prospect.

True 'nuff...  Unless you got a very early IMSAI with the point-to-point
wires PS.

>I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and
>-17.86.  A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load.

That is actually pretty much normal.  Keeping in mind that the mains on the
S-100 bus are unregulated and spec'd (such as it is) at +8 and +/-16VDC to
allow for drop under load without falling out of the 'comfort' range for
the regulators on the individual boards.

>At this point I feel pretty comfortable that the P/S is working pretty
>well, which surprised me.  I expected a fight (but was hoping for the
>results I got).  These old machines just refuse to die.

The big 'can' caps are a good deal harder to kill than the minis...

>I'm going to let it warm up for about an hour before I start plugging in
>boards.

Never can be too safe.  In the case of my PDP-8/i which had not been fired
in a known 10+ years, once I had the supplied spun up I ran it in under
(auto) lamp loads for a little over 6 hours (frequently checking for ripple
with a 'scope) before I started reconnecting logic.

But thats just me...   B^}

So... 'fess up.  Is this the 'door prize' IMSAI?

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sat Sep 19 00:31:33 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <199809190516.WAA20025@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980918223133.038b4810@agora.rdrop.com>

At 10:16 PM 9/18/98 -0700, it was written:
>At 10:19 PM 9/18/98 -0500, Wirehead wrote:
>>
>>> I measured the voltages across a power connector and got 9.4V, +17.56 and
>>> -17.86.  A little high but I attribute that to a lack of a load.
>>
>>Actually, I think most power supplies in S100 mainframes tend to run a 
>>bit high so they can handle the load and because it doesn't matter since 
>>each board has it's own regulators anyway.
>>
>>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>>
>On some (static memory and other) cards the linear regulators get quite hot
>with the high input voltages. Doesn't help here that the 117 Volts is
>sometimes 122 Volts or higher. For these systems I run them with a 12V
>transformer wired as a 120 to 108V step down (buck) autotransformer. I first
>tried with a variac to see how low the voltage can go, usually below 100V
>with supplies with a lot of "margin", such as many of those open frame
>linear supplies.

A note in defence of the much maligned Altair while on this subject...

May I point out the the Altair 'B' series machines were one of the first to
provide a main transformer with a multi-tap primary to allow for adjusting
for varying loads and local AC supply.

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From marvin at rain.org  Sat Sep 19 00:41:18 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Transformer
References: <19980919000425.10783.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <360343FE.9A1F1E46@rain.org>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 'traveling
> abroad'. There is a price range, with some 'for heating appliances
> only' (the cheapest) and the higher priced ones allow motors, and
> the $34 ones allow electronic devices. What is the difference among
> these units? Also, could a transformer such as in these theoretically
> be reversed and used for step-up purposes?

The ones for heating appliances are basically some type of switching
circuit, while some of the others are actually step up/down transformers.  I
have seen some of the units capable of 220 to 110V operation and vice versa.


From spc at armigeron.com  Fri Sep 18 22:38:36 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: LEGO MINDSTORMS Robotics Invention System Now Shipping (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809190338.XAA01453@armigeron.com>


  With all the talk recently about kids, robots and computers, I have to
pass this along (sorry about the length):

It was thus said that the Great LEGO MINDSTORMS News once stated:
> 
> Retailers Brace for Overwhelming Consumer Demand for
> LEGO(reg) MINDSTORMS(tm) Robotics Invention System(tm)
> 
> The very first units of the LEGO MINDSTORMS Robotics Invention System
> arrived on U.S. retail store shelves in limited quantities during the first
> week of September. Since the Robotics Invention System previewed at the
> American International Toy Fair, the Nurnberg International Toy Fair, and
> the British International Toy & Hobby Fair last February, the buzz over the
> first consumer robotics product that can actually react to its environment
> has been gaining more momentum than even the LEGO Company expected.
> 
> To date LEGO MINDSTORMS has received over 100,000 inquiries about its new
> Robotics Invention System, half of those from enthusiastic LEGO fans who
> registered online for a chance to be one of only 200 product beta testers.
> With just 12,000 units made available for the initial shipment, and only
> 75,000 additional units to be shipped through the end of the year, LEGO
> MINDSTORMS is anticipating a run on the Robotics Invention System that will
> quickly empty store shelves. It is expected to be one of the hottest
> products of the holiday buying season.
> 
> "LEGO MINDSTORMS has packaged high-tech, creativity and fun into a new form
> that represents a whole new direction for toys," commented Terri Bartlett,
> Communications Director for Toy Manufacturers of America, Inc., the
> industry association. "I don't expect to see any LEGO MINDSTORMS sets left
> on retail shelves after the holidays."
> 
> "The clamor for our new LEGO MINDSTORMS robots is far beyond even our
> expectations. Thousands of LEGO lovers of all ages have sent us requests to
> be the first to own the Robotics Invention System. We are already
> redoubling our efforts to produce enough product to handle the demand,"
> added Linda Dalton, Director, LEGO MINDSTORMS.
> 
> 
> PRODUCT AVAILABILITY:
> 
> In 1998, LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available for sale in the United States,
> Canada, and the United Kingdom.
> 
> 
> United States: LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available on or before October 1 at
> the following retail stores: select Discovery Channel Stores, FAO Schwarz,
> Fry's, Learningsmith, LEGO Imagination Centers (at Mall of America and
> Downtown Disney), Media Play, select Noodle Kidoodle, select Target (from
> November 1), Toys "R" Us, and Zany Brainy.  Some stores have reported that
> they are already sold out of initial inventories.
> 
> It is also available in the following catalogs: TigerDirect, Hammacher
> Schlemmer, FAO Schwarz, and The Robot Store Catalog.  LEGO MINDSTORMS can
> also be purchased through LEGO Shop at Home at (800) 453-4652 and (800)
> 835-4386.
> 
> 
> Canada: In Canada, LEGO MINDSTORMS will be available at Toys "R" Us and
> through the Sears catalog. Product should be available at retail by October
> 6.
> 
> 
> United Kingdom: To find out more about your local UK stockist, please call
> our UK information line on 0845 606 2043.
> 
> 
> Other English-speaking Countries: In 1999 the English versions of LEGO
> MINDSTORMS products will be launched in the following countries: Australia,
> Hong Kong, Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, South Africa, and Taiwan.
> 
> 
> Other language versions: In late 1999 we hope to launch localized versions
> in the following languages: German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch,
> Swedish, Danish, Finnish and Norwegian.
> 
> 
> Internet Sales: We are working on providing Internet sales.  Further
> details to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your interest.
> 
> The LEGO MINDSTORMS team
> 


From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Sat Sep 19 00:50:52 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com>
References: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3604445e.93480507@insight>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:57:13 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:

>But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
>giving me ideas. I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
>Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts. They are
>powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
>and they'll still work. BTW, where do all of those researchers get
>neural network chips?
>>

I believe you're talking about Mark Tilden and his robots.  He posts
to another mailing list I'm on.  He builds all kinds of small robots
without using any microprocessors at all; just some simple logic chips
and such.  They're not even used in the sense they're designed to be;
they're wired to oscillate in useful patterns (generating a walking
gait, for example).  You can drive small motors with them, and the
feedback (in the form of increased motor loading) will cause the gait
to change.  They're not really "neural net" chips (although you can
buy those several places quite readily); they're called "nervous nets"
- I guess because they act "nervous".  It's pretty wild stuff. Check
out Al Miller's site with a good introduction to "nervous nets" and
walkers at www.golden.net/~amiller/beam.htm, or see more about the
BEAM philosophy as well as some kits at www.solarbotics.com.

The metal parts aren't that tough if you want to build something
bigger.  Just get some aluminum angle, a hacksaw, and some bolts and
nuts, and you can build pretty much any shape you want.



                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                              microcomputer simulator!)
                            


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 19 00:58:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980918222740.03890de0@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918224002.351E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:

> So... 'fess up.  Is this the 'door prize' IMSAI?

Once this puppy is all restored I'll be sad to see it go.  I've had the
case powder-coated (even better than the original...powder coating is
scratch resistant!), I've had the dual disk drive unit I'm including with
it powder-coated to match, it'll have a nice terminal spray-painted to
match both of those.  It's totally cleaned up and almost sparkling. 
Providing the IMSAI CPU still works, it'll have that, plus 64K of Godbout
RAM, and a Thinker Toys Disk Jockey.  I haven't decided what I/O board to
use yet, and I'm thinking about throwing in a Godbout RAM17 (static) and a
System Support 1 (real-time clock/calendar, interrupt controller, math
corprocessor...) for good measure.  The bus is the original IMSAI so I'll
probably put a California Computer Systems bus terminator in there help it
out.

In eBay dollars this system would be worth $2000-$3000.  Some luck VCF
attendee will go home with it for free.  What a steal.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Sat Sep 19 00:57:19 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: [getting off topic, sort of] Re: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <3602F7EC.D56F55B3@freegate.com>
References: <19980918235713.15174.qmail@hotmail.com> <3602F7EC.D56F55B3@freegate.com>
Message-ID: <360546f6.94144923@insight>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:16:44 -0700, <cmcmanis@freegate.com> wrote:


>You presume complexity, they are nothing but a couple of op-amps biased
>into a non-linear feedback loop. Stop thinking digital, think analog,
>its cheaper.

Actually, I don't think most of them are even op-amps.  Just things
like 74C14's and the like.



                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                              microcomputer simulator!)
                            


From mbg at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 01:07:29 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Source for Fuzzball?
Message-ID: <199809190607.AA00371@world.std.com>

Try on

	ftp://dbit.dbit.com/pub/pdp11/fuzzball

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Sat Sep 19 01:41:43 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <006a01bde398$915d8000$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

Phil Clayton wrote:

>I really would love to get even just a copy of DOS Ver 1.0, OK! I'll
>settly for Ver 1.1 DOS.. I have an old XT thats is needs it really bad..
>I'll send ya a return postage paid diskette mailer for a copy, can
>anyone help ?


If you plan to install it on your XT's hard drive, forget it. Ver 1.1 didn't
support hard drives.

>
>I also have a copy someone gave me of Windows Ver 1.0 , have never tried
>it yet..
>Has anyone seen this yet ?


I have an old 386 set up with a boot manager and three different GUI's on
different partitions. GEM 1.2, Windows 1.02 and IBM's Topview 1.01. Topview
is the oldest with files dated March 1985 and the most primitive looking.
GEM is the best looking and most usable. Looks similar to an early Mac.
Dated September 1985. Windows looks a little untidy with garish default
colors. These files are dated January 1986.   I have them all set up to run
in EGA. The only one that gave any trouble installing was Topview, which
didn't work properly until I found a 1986 mouse driver.

Regards,
Hans




From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 02:50:33 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
References: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com> <199809190055.UAA18645@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <36036249.C9FB1921@cnct.com>

Lawrence Walker wrote:

> simply jumped on a bandwagon that was already there. The DR <> MS relationship
> is also another interesting link. TMK DR's successor Caldera still owns the
> MSDOS source-code. Not sure of the ins and outs of this.

That turns out not to be the case.  Caldera got the rights to DRDOS
from Novell, who got it from DR.  DRDOS was a direct descendant of
CP/M with MSDOS functionality added -- no common source.  MSDOS
started as a CP/M clone by Seattle Computing (QDOS) who licensed it
to Microsoft (so the story goes) when they got tired of explaining
"Quick & Dirty Operating System" to clients.  Caldera doesn't own
any source code Microsoft ever was convicted of using -- "look and
feel" is a different can of worms.

Those elements from 2.0 on that make MSDOS really different from
(not necessarily superior to) come from the Xenix porting effort.
While MS was never able to make it a product (they let Altos, Tandy,
IBM and SCO do that -- in that order), it gave them the concepts of
subdirectories, "device independance" and pipes (though MSDOS pipes
were really "command1 >tmpfile;command2 <tmpfile;rm tmpfile" -- the
very thing that the guys at Murray Hill developed pipes to avoid).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 03:13:37 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918171504.8366N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <360367B1.5583AC6F@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> > But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
> 
> Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores.  Also, look
> around!  Scrap yards, flea markets, etc.  You can find many sources for
> the raw materials for the framework.

There's also the politically incorrect concept of grabbing metal out
of the recycle bins.  (Anybody else here ever read a kids novel from
the 60s _Andy Buckram's Tin Men_?  I'll admit to having read it at 
just under the target age bracket when it first hit my local public
library.)
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 03:33:44 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980918212622.30824A-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>
Message-ID: <36036C68.3822457F@cnct.com>

Wirehead Prime wrote:

> I thought of doing two of those, put wheels on the steppers, use two to
> push it around in various directions, mount a pair plastic replicas of
> table-saw blades on the drive motors, mount those on top and then do some
> code on a microcontroller that would look at an up-pointing photocell,
> move the thing around until it was hiding under someplace dark, then wait
> until some forward looking sensors saw movement and then pop out, spin
> the phoney saw blades and trip one of those digital recorder chips to play
> the sound of a chain saw or table saw and have it chase the
> movement...just to scare the bejeesus out of people.  =-D
> 
> Twisted fun for the whole family!

Cheaper than the digital recorder chips (since the thing's got to be
big enough to notice, there'll be some empty space inside) is just an
old cheap tape player (even with chips, you still need an amplifier
and speakers) with an answering machine loop tape of a chainsaw.  The
chip method is preferable for a multi-purpose machine (chainsaw, 
dental drill, Clinton advising perjury, chestburster alien, lightsaber,
puking coed, etc.).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep 19 01:31:19 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <4525f3c2.360310e2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199809191033.GAA24721@smtp.interlog.com>

On 18 Sep 98 at 22:03, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> installing the mathco will wont speed up anything EXCEPT for programs that USE
> it. i bought an xt that had a 16 bit vga card in it. i dont know if every 16
> bit vga card works in an 8bit slot, but i guess it's worth a try anyway.  
> 
> david
> 
> In a message dated 98-09-18 21:14:47 EDT, you write:
> 
> <<  I've got an Intel Inboard card, but mounted in a 5150 with a Plus
> hardcard. 
>  I've also been searching for the piggyback with no luck so far. Would adding
>  a 387 co-processer speed applications up significantly ? I'm also on the 
>  lookout for an 8-bit VGA card for this set-up. I have a 16-bit card with a
>  switch for either 9 or 15 pin connectors. I don't suppose this would work
>  in the 8-bit 5150 would it ? I know some 16-bit cards will work in an 8-bit.
>  
>  ciao		larry  >>
> 
 Thanks Dave, that sounds encouraging. At least it tells me I won't fry the 
board. I'll give it the 16-bit a try.
 I had heard that very few apps use the 387 and it wasn't worth the expense, 
but then again on a 5150 every little bit counts. 

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 19 06:39:43 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: XPOST-converting CDC7600 format to IBM/APPLE/ETC
Message-ID: <360397FE.CD7F93EC@bbtel.com>

If anyone can help this guy out, contact him directly:


Jim Apple <jma150@psu.edu>
University Park, PA USA - Friday, September 18, 1998 at 14:22:32

     OKay, I'm quite desperate, so maybe someone out there is old (or
smart) enough to help me out here.

     I have some old binary files that I need to open up on a present
day system (PC,mac,unix). Here's the kicker,
     these files were originally encoded on the
     old CDC7600 mainframe computers. Yes, theyre that old. Anyway, I've
tried numerous encoders/decoders, and
     notthing has worked. So, I'm shopping for new and wonderful ideas.

     So, if you have any clue about this, or if you can point me in the
right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it.

     Thank you much.

     --jimi
     ps. please email me directly if possible at jma150@psu.edu




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sat Sep 19 06:55:30 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
Message-ID: <980919075530.158@trailing-edge.com>

>A note in defence of the much maligned Altair while on this subject...
>May I point out the the Altair 'B' series machines were one of the first to
>provide a main transformer with a multi-tap primary to allow for adjusting
>for varying loads and local AC supply.

And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being
dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either.
Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite
power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers.

Tim.


From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 19 07:04:23 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <36039DC7.1703@bright.net>

I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill
Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how to
progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machine
language.
-- 
Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
http://www.bright.net/~oajones
Rev. O. Alan Jones


From fauradon at pclink.com  Sat Sep 19 07:33:23 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <004001bde3c9$b1ebe380$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

Boy! You're starting a religious war here.
Most of us are not fans of the guy.
Here is my cent and a half (I wouldn't give two cents for Bill Gates): He is
too buisy learning monopolistic laws to be bothered with programming. If he
was still in the coding arena Visual C++ probably would not be the way it is
today and the MFC would probably make sense too. That is IF he was
programming AND was interested in it.
I guess he's more on the design and what he calls innovation (plagiarism),
he says let's do that and there are 2000 employees jumping on it.
So my answer is he probably forgot what code looks like.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: oajones <oajones@bright.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 7:09 AM
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?


>I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill
>Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how to
>progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machine
>language.
>--
>Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
>Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
>http://www.bright.net/~oajones
>Rev. O. Alan Jones
>



From cdrmool at interlog.com  Sat Sep 19 09:26:35 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Someone was looking for DOS 1?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980919102318.6800B-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

I may be mixing up lists here (must get that procmail filter setup) but I
think someone was looking for a copy of Dos (MS) ver 1 or 1.1.  If so let
me know, I have a disk image of most old versions of IBM/MS dos stored
away. Its useless on a hard disk system though as it has no support for
them. 
	Just let me know...


Colan






From bobstek at ix13.ix.netcom.com  Sat Sep 19 14:34:01 1998
From: bobstek at ix13.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Somebody ought to grab this!
Message-ID: <000001bde404$74770080$35cbb7c7@mycroft>

I just saw this posting - a free Fortune 32:16 in Utah!

>I have this old, but functional, Fortune 32:16 computer system that
>I'm trying to get rid of.  I hate throwing away working hardware, so I
>wanted to see if someone else could give it a good home before I'm
>forced to dispose of it by other means.
>
>Details at http://www.xmission.com/~skb/fortune.html

(I want it but my wife would kill me.)

Bob Stek
bobstek@ix.netcom.com
Saver of lost SOLs



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 12:02:19 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
Message-ID: <199809191702.AA28369@world.std.com>


< I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to ge
< one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
< been powered in over a decade perhaps.  What can I do to warm up the cap
< and transformer before bringing it fully online?  Anything?

Try a 100W light bulb in SERIES.  It will limit the inrush current and if 
there is a short it will absorb the load.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 12:02:57 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809191702.AA28710@world.std.com>

< One of the goals of the Apple I was to create a low cost machine.
< 
< Basically I just wanted to give an apple example that not all engineers
< all of the time, want to built the biggest, and most expensive things.
< That is a bad generalization.

It indeed is a bad generalization.  As an engiener myself I found it 
annoying but let it pass.

Actually the rules are simple.  Good, Fast, Cheap... Pick any two.

Enginering is about compromize, tradeoff and innovation.  For a given 
product there are often many ways to implement but more often than not
considerations at higher levels may dictate which are the best ways to
go.  They are not always bad either.  If your corperate strategy is
fault tolerence the hardware is likely not have extra bits, redundancy
and other things needed to make that happen.  That can and is more costly.
On the other hand if you making really low cost means something else takes 
precedent.

Some thins are a surprize to the uninitiated.  For example fewer chips
fewer interconnections and connectors often means lower cost and to most 
people surprize higher realiability.  So the idea of Good, Fast and Cheap
is not as obvious as first stated.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 12:03:10 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
Message-ID: <199809191703.AA28823@world.std.com>

< And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being
< dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either.
< Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite
< power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers.

Compupro and ECT come to mind... I have both and they are really well 
engineerd bent metal.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 12:03:16 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <199809191703.AA28858@world.std.com>


< I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill
< Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how t
< progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machin
< language.

No, he knew how to code asm for a BASIC interpreter.  I don't know when he 
stopped coding but many say the basic and OS used in the tandy 100 was the 
last effort he had a direct hand in.

Allison



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 19 11:59:32 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809191711.NAA14713@gate.usaor.net>

> > That doesn't always work.  luckily, there's one every year pretty
nearby. 
> > That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how
they
> > all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em).  I was planning on
> > using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it
work
> > by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC.
> 
> If you go to Doug Jones' page at the University of Iowa:
> 
> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~djones
> 
> he has a link to some documentation and source code for gutting out
> floppy drives so that you can control the stepper and spin the drive 
> motor.

The link doesn't work.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Sat Sep 19 11:18:15 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809191711.NAA14713@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980919111713.31349A-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>


> > If you go to Doug Jones' page at the University of Iowa:
> > 
> > http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~djones
> > 
> > he has a link to some documentation and source code for gutting out
> > floppy drives so that you can control the stepper and spin the drive 
> > motor.
> 
> The link doesn't work.

Well, you know you COULD find him on a search engine in two seconds.  But 
the correct link is

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 19 12:22:47 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809191702.AA28710@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919101729.18646B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> It indeed is a bad generalization.  As an engiener myself I found it 
> annoying but let it pass.

Well, my point was this: if you had free reign and an unlimited budget,
you'd probably do all sorts of wild things with a product you were
designing.  All sorts of wacky features would creep in.  That's a good
thing.  It's called "creativity".

However, as an engineer you seldom have free reign, and certainly the
budget is not unlimited.  You're basically following mandates from higher
up in the food chain.  These mandates come from the corporate strategists,
with input from the marketing demons as to what the market wants.

The comment wasn't meant as a jab at engineers at all!  I am an engineer
too!

> Enginering is about compromize, tradeoff and innovation.  For a given 
> product there are often many ways to implement but more often than not
> considerations at higher levels may dictate which are the best ways to
<...>

Me too.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep 19 13:36:53 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: High density disks on double density drives
Message-ID: <199809191836.NAA05261@trailingedge.com>

I've heard that you shouldn't use high density disks in double 
density drives, that the data wouldn't be reliable.  Well, I just 
bought a bunch of double density 3.5" disks to use with my Apple 
//gs and I got to thinking about this.  Is it because of the drive or 
the controller?  I would think it was the drive, if so, I have the Apple 
SuperDrive which can read/write high density disks except I don't 
have the SuperDrive controller for the //gs.  Thus I'm stuck with the 
800k format.  Could I still use high density disks in this drive 
without problems?

Thanks.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Sat Sep 19 13:41:16 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: High density disks on double density drives
In-Reply-To: <199809191836.NAA05261@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809191836.LAA10517@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

It is neither the drive nor the controller per-se, it is the read/write
heads and the media that are incompatible. HD disk media requires a higher
magnetic field to magnetize reliably and the DD drives don't provide it. 

--Chuck

At 01:36 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've heard that you shouldn't use high density disks in double 
>density drives, that the data wouldn't be reliable.  


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 19 13:41:44 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919114048.18646D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


This is from the CP/M FAQ:

Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything?

A: (Don Kirkpatrick)

   There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for
   Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control
   Program/Monitor.  The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M
   books giving different answers.  According to Gary Kildall (the
   author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show
   "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is:
   Control Program for Microcomputers.  This is also consistent with
   DRI documentation.  See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual.

If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From heavy at ctesc.net  Sat Sep 19 13:57:43 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809191711.NAA14713@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <v04011703b229aa853315@[10.1.115.13]>

>> > That doesn't always work.  luckily, there's one every year pretty
>nearby.
>> > That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how
>they
>> > all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em).  I was planning on
>> > using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it
>work
>> > by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC.
>>
>> If you go to Doug Jones' page at the University of Iowa:
>>
>> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~djones
>>
>> he has a link to some documentation and source code for gutting out
>> floppy drives so that you can control the stepper and spin the drive
>> motor.
>
>The link doesn't work.
>--
>         -Jason
>(roblwill@usaor.net)
>   ICQ#-1730318

I followed the link out, too, and found it dead. By snipping the ~djones
from the url, I got to the main page with a directory showing David Jones
in it. His index page took me to:

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/

My own interest in stepping motors has to do with building a rotating
platform for making Quicktime movies of objects. I figure I can use an old
salvaged mainframe hard drive spindle for the axis, and a stepper motor to
step the increments, using a geared-down belt and pulley system, perhaps.
It doesn't have to be really accurate. It would be nice to have it all
controlled automatically for a shoot, including triggering the camera, with
appropriate delays for things to happen in. I don't know if I'll get around
to doing the code on that; probably either do it manually, or use GUI
Applescript. If manual, I don't even need a stepper motor, do I?

I'm not a kid, I'm an old f**t, with fewer braincells not enough time and
not enough background. -Jim
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
         http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 19 14:19:25 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: AS400 RPG books needed
Message-ID: <360403BC.7F3EAAF6@bbtel.com>

I'm going to have to refresh and improve my programming skills in RPG
(not role playing games RPG) for the IBM AS400 system and am in search
of good books on general RPG as well as RPG400 specific programming,
from a basic level to mid/advanced. Haven't even programmed in RPG in 6
or 7 yrs so I need to go way back to the beginnings.

___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From eric at brouhaha.com  Sat Sep 19 14:21:05 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <980919075530.158@trailing-edge.com>
	(CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
References: <980919075530.158@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <19980919192105.23804.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tim wrote:
> And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being
> dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either.
> Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite
> power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers.

I've been told that one shouldn't plug anything using a ferroresonant
transformer into a UPS.  Perhaps someone who knows more about the
characteristics of ferroresonant transformers (and UPSes) can explain why,
or refute the claim.  I haven't tried it, because the only thing I have (*)
containing a ferroresonant transformer *is* my UPS, and there's no point
plugging that into itself.

Although just a few days ago a friend who shall remain nameless was talking
about playing around with two old, decommisioned UPSes.  He pluged each one
into the other to see what the frequency of the resulting on/off osciallation
would be (about two seconds as it turned out).

Eric 

(*) The only modern thing, anyhow.  Did DEC use ferroresonant transformers in
any of their machines?



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 19 14:30:25 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
References: <4525f3c2.360310e2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36040650.77FB8D9A@bbtel.com>

You're correct on the mathco (you knew you were) and on the VGA 8/16 there are
some that do and some that don't. I had a few 8 bit VGA cards (maybe still do,
don't know right now) that would go either/or and there was a complete group of
cards made as 16 that would either autosense or could be dipped or jumpered to 8
bit. The Trident 8800 line was capable of autosense or manual settings as some of
the 8900's are still. Headland cards usually allow use in 8 bit systems too as
well as many of the Paradise cards.

If someone needs an 8 bit contact me and I'll see what I have an maybe we can work
a trade.

SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> installing the mathco will wont speed up anything EXCEPT for programs that USE
> it. i bought an xt that had a 16 bit vga card in it. i dont know if every 16
> bit vga card works in an 8bit slot, but i guess it's worth a try anyway.
>
> david
>
> In a message dated 98-09-18 21:14:47 EDT, you write:
>
> <<  I've got an Intel Inboard card, but mounted in a 5150 with a Plus
> hardcard.
>  I've also been searching for the piggyback with no luck so far. Would adding
>  a 387 co-processer speed applications up significantly ? I'm also on the
>  lookout for an 8-bit VGA card for this set-up. I have a 16-bit card with a
>  switch for either 9 or 15 pin connectors. I don't suppose this would work
>  in the 8-bit 5150 would it ? I know some 16-bit cards will work in an 8-bit.
>
>  ciao           larry  >>



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 19 14:34:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918171504.8366N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36040734.3323ACC4@bbtel.com>

Old bed rails make ideal supports, just grind off the rivets and you have
lightweight but durable angle iron for use as the skeleton, usually free of charge
(I used to find them by trash cans all the time in Chicago). Sheet metal to cover
it can be gotten from heating and AC shops when they cut off parts of fulllength
ducts or when they gut old systems and bring the old ducts back. Hoods of cars that
are nearly flat are also good for sheetmetal, and cheap.

Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
> > But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
>
> Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores.  Also, look
> around!  Scrap yards, flea markets, etc.  You can find many sources for
> the raw materials for the framework.
>
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ever onward.
>
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From eric at brouhaha.com  Sat Sep 19 14:35:31 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Someone was looking for DOS 1?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980919102318.6800B-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
	(cdrmool@interlog.com)
References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980919102318.6800B-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <19980919193531.23900.qmail@brouhaha.com>

By the way, with all this talk about old versions of DOS (and other MS
products), and getting copies of same, I thought I should mention an
interesting aspect of MS End User License Agreements (EULAs).

At least some of them state state theat the licensee is entitled to install
and use any earlier version of the same product.  For instance, the EULA for
Office 95 states:

  1.  GRANT OF LICENSE.  This EULA grants you the following rights:

      * Software:  You may install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE
        PRODUCT, or in its place, any prior version for the same
        operating system, on a single computer.  The primary user of the
        computer on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is installed may make a
        second copy of his or her exclusive use on either a home or
        portable computer.

When I bought Office 95, I was quite pleased to see this, because I still
occasionally used Windows 3.1, and did not own a copy of Office Pro 4.3.

Strictly interpreting the license, I would have to deinstall Office 95
every time I wanted to install Office Pro 4.3, and vice versa, unless I
had a separate license for Office Pro 4.3 that was not used to upgrade
to Office 95.

Anyhow, I've never actually found myself a copy of the Office Pro 4.3
CD-ROM.  If anyone has an extra, please let me know.  Since I'm legally
entitled to install and run it (under certain circumstances), it isn't
piracy for me to get a copy from someone else.  :-)

The more insteresting part is the second sentence.  I personally own
a copy of Office 95.  When I worked at a previous employer, the employer
did not provide a copy or license of Office for my use in the office.
So I installed my personal copy on my computer at work, as the "single
computer", as provided in the first sentence of the license.  I installed
a second copy on my home computer, as the "home or portable computer" of
the second sentence.

In this minor regard, the Microsoft EULA was even better than the old
Borland book-style license.

Be forwarned, however, that Microsoft does not use the same EULA for all
of their products.  I don't even know whether Office 97's EULA offers
these same terms.

Eric


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 19 14:48:59 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Transformer
Message-ID: <19980919194859.14007.qmail@hotmail.com>





As you yourself said, the C128 logic board requires 9vac. But why
is this cheap one harmful for electronics?
>> 
>> 
>> I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 
'traveling
>> abroad'. There is a price range, with some 'for heating appliances
>> only' (the cheapest) and the higher priced ones allow motors, and
>> the $34 ones allow electronic devices. What is the difference among
>> these units? Also, could a transformer such as in these theoretically
>> be reversed and used for step-up purposes?
>
>The very cheap one ('for heating appliances only') is probably a triac 
>circuit. Like a lamp dimmer fixed at half-brightness. And that one 
can't 
>step up, of course. Don't use that for anything but heaters/lamps. I've 
>seen the result of plugging a Mac+ into one of those, and it wasn't 
>pretty. It took me a long time to rebuild the analgoue board. If the 
>owner had asked me what to do in the first place, I'd have simply cut 
the 
>link...
>
>The true transformers can be used as a step-up unit. But owing to 
losses, 
>etc, you may not get the output voltage that you expect (it will, in 
>general, be lower than you'd expect). But it should work.
>
>You may find it's cheaper to buy a bare transformer and add the 
>case/connectors yourself.
>
>BTW, another trick which I hesitate to mention because it can casue 
>damage is the following. If you _know_ it's a switch-mode PSU, and that 
>the first thing it does is rectify the mains, and there's no 
>line-frequency transformer to provide a startup voltage, then it'll run 
>on DC, right. So give it DC at peak voltage of the 220V mains it's 
>expecting - i.e. at twice the peak voltage of the local mains. Make an 
>external voltage doubler to do this.
>
>I don't want to give more details, because IMHO if you can't work it 
>out from that, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. Even if you do 
>know what to do, examine the PSU carefully to make sure there's 
_nothing_ 
>that depends on an AC input. 
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sat Sep 19 14:51:08 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
Message-ID: <980919155108.160@trailing-edge.com>

>Tim wrote:
>> And by this point in time ferroresonant transformers were also being
>> dropped in by folks who weren't happy with the original supply, either.
>> Having used a large variety of S-100 boxes, far and away my favorite
>> power supplies are ones with ferroresonant transformers.
>I've been told that one shouldn't plug anything using a ferroresonant
>transformer into a UPS.  Perhaps someone who knows more about the
>characteristics of ferroresonant transformers (and UPSes) can explain why,
>or refute the claim.

Ferroresonant transformers really really want sine waves as input.
Many UPS's put out square waves, or slightly shaped square waves.
There are many high-frequency harmonics in a square wave, and these
disrupt the careful LC-resonance-at-saturation regulation mechanism.

Not only do ferroresonant transformers want sine waves, they want
sine waves of a specific frequency.  I've never tried running a 60Hz
unit at 50Hz, but I do know from hard experience what happens at
400 Hz :-(.

There are UPS's that do put out nice sine waves, but these aren't all
that commonly found.

>(*) The only modern thing, anyhow.  Did DEC use ferroresonant transformers in
>any of their machines?

DEC computers from 1970 onwards typically used switching supplies for
all high-current supplies, though there are usually some low-current
supplies with linear regulators.  (There are some exceptions, such as
the "large" 8/E using a linear supply while the "small" 8/F used a
switching supply)...

DEC did sell ferroresonant line conditioners (some of them quite large;
one that I passed by took 440VAC 3-phase in and had about 70 15 amp
circuits out), but these came before the computer.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 19 14:56:06 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <19980919195606.20092.qmail@hotmail.com>





I believe his last program was in 1986 for a Tandy machine. He's been
strictly buisness after that
>I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill
>Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how 
to
>progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew 
machine
>language.
>-- 
>Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
>Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
>http://www.bright.net/~oajones
>Rev. O. Alan Jones
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sat Sep 19 15:23:58 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919101729.18646B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:22:47 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919101729.18646B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980919202358.24034.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam wrote:
> Engineers didn't decide this.  If engineers had their way your computer
> you'd be able to stick your dirty dishes inside your computer and have it
> wash them while you surf the web.  Engineers aren't mindful of cost (and
> therefore price).  However, marketers are.

Dominique Cormann wrote:
> That is a terrible and false generalization. Engineers can go in any
> direction cost wise.

and in a later message:
> Basically I just wanted to give an apple example that not all engineers,
> all of the time, want to built the biggest, and most expensive things.
> That is a bad generalization.

Allison J Parent wrote:
> It indeed is a bad generalization.  As an engiener myself I found it 
> annoying but let it pass.

Same here.

Sam replied:
> Well, my point was this: if you had free reign and an unlimited budget,
> you'd probably do all sorts of wild things with a product you were
> designing.  All sorts of wacky features would creep in.  That's a good
> thing.  It's called "creativity".

If you have free reign and unlimited budget, what you're doing is *NOT*
engineering.

Good engineers want to ship a product that customers will actually use;
the greatest satisfaction an engineer ever has is seeing or hearing
customers use the product.  While it is an ego boost to hear customers
praise the product, most of the best engineering goes completely unnoticed.
When was the last time you drove across a bridge and thought "Wow, the
engineers did an awesome job on this bridge."?  (At most, people might think
"Wow, this is a pretty bridge.")

While it is tempting to keep improving the design forever, a good engineer
realizes that at some point the design has to be "done".  There may or
may not be an opportunity to revise the design later.

To refute Sam's original point, at one of my previous jobs, the engineers had
to fight marketing tooth-and-nail to KEEP FEATURES OUT of the product, because
otherwise the product would have cost far too much.  As it turned out, we
(engineers) weren't sufficiently successful at reigning in the marketing
bozos, and our competition came out with a product with 1/10 the features at
1/3 the cost.  Guess which product was more successful?

A good engineer DOES NOT try to design the kitchen sink into everything.
Customers don't want a computer that doubles as a dishwasher, and engineers
know it.

Henry Ford said "The most beautiful things in the world are those from
which all excess weight has been removed."  While at first glance this
might seem to apply only to automobiles, airplanes, and the like, in
reality it applies to all fields of engineering, including computer
hardware and software.

Any bozo with a EE degree could have built a computer roughly comparable
in capabilities to the Apple II using many hundreds of chips and costing
thousands of dollars.   A good engineer could have done it with few enough
chips to make it affordable.  An excellent engineer did it with almost
no chips, and made it not just affordable but also elegant.  Ford would
have been proud to see it.

For more information on what engineering is really about (which is NOT
"feature creep"), I'd recommend the book _The_Existential_Pleasures_of_
_Engineering_ by Samuel Florman (although I disgraee with Florman's claims
about the necessity of government regulation).

There's also a good Engineering-related bibliography at
	http://g250.grainger.uiuc.edu/eng199/biblio.html

Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sat Sep 19 15:36:37 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: High density disks on double density drives
In-Reply-To: <199809191836.NAA05261@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
References: <199809191836.NAA05261@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <19980919203637.24082.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> I have the Apple 
> SuperDrive which can read/write high density disks except I don't 
> have the SuperDrive controller for the //gs.  Thus I'm stuck with the 
> 800k format.  Could I still use high density disks in this drive 
> without problems?

No.  When the drive is accessing 800k disks, which are effectively double
density, though they actually use GCR, it uses write current that
is suitable for double density media.  High density media is only suitable
for use in 1.44M format.

Using the wrong kind of media sometimes seems to work, but the data will
be much more susceptible to error.




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 12:45:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809190216.WAA00758@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 18, 98 08:50:25 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKR4e-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 12:48:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
In-Reply-To: <980918211936.12e@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com" at Sep 18, 98 09:19:36 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 12:56:57 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809190255.WAA06769@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 18, 98 10:48:27 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 13:43:28 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980918222740.03890de0@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Sep 18, 98 10:27:40 pm
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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 19 16:49:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <m0zKRym-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919144000.18646G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > When its powered down, give the fan a spin with your finger.  It should
> > spin freely.  If not, it should be replaced.  The older bronze/oilite
> > bearings dried out and would start to stiffen up after a souple of years of
> > operation.

The fan works just fine with or without power.

> > Never can be too safe.  In the case of my PDP-8/i which had not been fired
> > in a known 10+ years, once I had the supplied spun up I ran it in under
> > (auto) lamp loads for a little over 6 hours (frequently checking for ripple
> > with a 'scope) before I started reconnecting logic.
> 
> No, it's me as well :-). Having once had a PSU fail and take out chips, I 
> am now _very_ careful when I bring up an unknown PSU.

I actually left it warming for about 4 hours while I ran around trying to
locate boards, manuals, cables, etc. in between other things I need to get
completed for VCF.

Today I plugged in the front panel and a Cromemco ZPU.  It worked!  The
address LEDs 15, 14 and 13 are sequencing in a binary pattern.  I don't
know what this means, but at least it shows life.  I got the same results
with another ZPU.  I can single-step it and see different stuff happening,
but I have no idea what its doing.  I buried my friggin IMSAI manual in a
box a few weeks back.

> Darn it, on an S100 machine, I'd probably pull the socketed chips from
> each board and test the regulators off-load... 

I got your message after I started playing but fortunately everything came
out fine.  I don't know if I should be surprised that this stuff is
working as well as it is.  Aside from its age, most of this had been
stuffed away in grimy corners of peoples' basements and garages, or worse!
A lot of these boards seem so kludgy with all the patch wires they have.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 17:57:17 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <m0zKRFk-000IyPC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <360436CD.50AE4AD8@cnct.com>

Tony Duell wrote:

> > That doesn't always work.  luckily, there's one every year pretty nearby.
> > That's where I got my Tandy 1000 with 4 LPT ports (I don't know how they
> > all work, but they do, and I'm not gonna touch 'em).  I was planning on
> > using it as the controller, and hooking up printer guts and making it work
> > by sending line feeds and spaces, and things like through BASIC.
> 
> Can I recomend that you grab the parallel port FAQ off the web. Those
> printer ports are really 12 output lines and 4 input lines each. You can
> do all sorts of neat stuff with those. Like _directly_ control the
> stepper motors (or use some simple stepper control ICs). Hook up
> switches/sensors. You can do that from BASIC, but I think you have to be
> running MS-DOS and not Windows (cetainly not 95 or NT), since that tends
> to get in the way of direct port access.

He won't have that problem.  While I _think_ there might have been a
final member of the Tandy 1000 line with a 386, the usual CPU in a
Tandy 1000 is an 8088 (and my TL/2 has a 286, but only an 8-bit bus).
Windows is _not_ an option except maybe 1.x (2.x with a 286), and it
needs a CGA screen driver (preferably with knowledge of the PC Jr.
video modes).  So I think we're safe to assume BASIC under MS-DOS.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From donm at cts.com  Sat Sep 19 17:57:04 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: Need to bring up a power supply
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918165020.8366J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980919155451.7421A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> 
> I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get
> one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
> been powered in over a decade perhaps.  What can I do to warm up the caps
> and transformer before bringing it fully online?  Anything?
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

Well, it is terribly crude, but you could put a light bulb socket in 
series with one side of the mains to the PS and start off with a low 
wattage bulb and work your way up.
						 - don



From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 18:03:03 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:43 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919114048.18646D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36043827.981718C9@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> This is from the CP/M FAQ:
> 
> Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything?
> 
> A: (Don Kirkpatrick)
> 
>    There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for
>    Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control
>    Program/Monitor.  The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M
>    books giving different answers.  According to Gary Kildall (the
>    author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show
>    "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is:
>    Control Program for Microcomputers.  This is also consistent with
>    DRI documentation.  See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual.
> 
> If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself).

"Control Program for Microcomputers" is what I recall from magazine
articles in the 70s and it's what's used in my CP/M 3.0 manuals.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 19 18:01:52 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919144000.18646G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Lucky me.  I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today.  A nice
assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles.  I don't do DEC (I remember
cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last
time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon
Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so.

Except for one.  This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful
info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only).  This
looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep
understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS,
unibus, the works.  I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's
double-sided 8.5x11x2".  If some DEC-head could use this, let me know. 
Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) 

-- Doug



From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 19 17:59:33 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
Message-ID: <36043755.4B34@bright.net>

Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these
machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up:
"162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)"
Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory
during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error.
Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software
program?

Thanks...
--Alan
-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
<A
HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>


From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 19 18:16:37 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to   
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809192316.AA29177@world.std.com>

< If you have free reign and unlimited budget, what you're doing is *NOT*
< engineering.

Ah, gak another generalization.  It does take out the challenge though.

< Good engineers want to ship a product that customers will actually use;
< the greatest satisfaction an engineer ever has is seeing or hearing
< customers use the product.  While it is an ego boost to hear customers

!You bet! ;)  I've done a few.

< praise the product, most of the best engineering goes completely unnotic
< When was the last time you drove across a bridge and thought "Wow, the
< engineers did an awesome job on this bridge."?  (At most, people might t
< "Wow, this is a pretty bridge.")

What people notice is that gee it does save me 20 minutes getting there.

A few will notice it as something to look at like Golden Gate or the 
Verizanio Narrows Bridge.

< Any bozo with a EE degree could have built a computer roughly comparabl
< in capabilities to the Apple II using many hundreds of chips and costin
< thousands of dollars.   A good engineer could have done it with few enou
< chips to make it affordable.  An excellent engineer did it with almost
< no chips, and made it not just affordable but also elegant.  Ford would
< have been proud to see it.

Go back to Good, Fast, Cheap.  Innovation is the product of careful 
compromize.

I'm also a pilot and In aeronautical engineering given 100hp engine of
nominal weight you can make a fast bird that can't carry anything or
a very slow one that can and everything inbetween.  Somethings however 
are not possible despite innovations in materials.

Allison



From thomas100 at home.com  Sat Sep 19 19:18:13 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <199809200015.QAA05323@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

I've heard many times that he did the BASIC for the Trs-80 Model  
100.  At that time I think Microsoft put out pretty respectable  
product [I thought so anyway].

Perhaps it makes sense that since he became strictly-management  
oriented, Microsoft products have been backward, unimaginative and  
often downright creepy.

Well, at least unlike the other Bill, his vices are limited to  
economic pursuits.  I just hope that someday soon they help to  
modernize computing again.  :-(

Outside of web browsers and Java, things have been pretty dull for  
the last couple of years.  I would say that that's okay for a  
maturing industry, but there are so many helpful technologies on the  
backburner right now that it's just unreal.

What was it somebody said?  "The popularization of the Internet  
slammed modern software development back ten years."  Or something  
like that.

Thomas


From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 19 18:29:09 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
References: <19980919195606.20092.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <36043E45.75DBB7B5@cnct.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> I believe his last program was in 1986 for a Tandy machine. He's been
> strictly buisness after that

> >I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill
> >Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how
> to
> >progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew
> machine
> >language.

That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
not much over a year ago.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 19 18:27:41 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809192327.QAA24153@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>You might get an old EPROM programmer at a Radio rally/hamfest. But 
>they're often not that cheap. How about buildign one for your next 
>project - to program standard EPROMs (2764s - 27512s, say) is not that 
>hard. Basically you have to set up the address and data, take one of the 
>pins (Vpp) up to 12.5V (or 21V, or even 25V on older devices) and then 
>apply a 50ms program pulse to another pin. And repeat for all the 
>locations you want to program.

I have a BAL-500 EMROM Programmer for the Apple II I've been meaning to 
experiment with.  No documentation or software, of course.  Is any 
"special" software required to operate an EPROM programmer, or can it be 
programmed using the Apple II's BASIC or Assembly (not that I know 
assembly)?

>When i built my first embedded control system I had to build an EPROM 
>programmer first....

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 19 18:33:42 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
References: <36043755.4B34@bright.net>
Message-ID: <36043F55.DA30AEA3@bbtel.com>

See your personal email, I've answered and attached the setup program there

oajones wrote:

> Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these
> machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up:
> "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)"
> Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory
> during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error.
> Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software
> program?
>
> Thanks...
> --Alan
> --
> Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
> Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
> BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
> <A
> HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 17:18:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <19980919192105.23804.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 19, 98 07:21:05 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKVKg-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 17:31:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <19980919194859.14007.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 19, 98 12:48:59 pm
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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 19 19:01:10 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919165955.18646I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be
found walking the halls of VCF 2.0.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 19:00:40 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
In-Reply-To: <36043755.4B34@bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 19, 98 06:59:33 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKWvk-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 19 19:15:40 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919165955.18646I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919191221.16607B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be
> found walking the halls of VCF 2.0.

Cool, so who won the lifetime pass?  BTW, one of the books I got today at
the Halted give-away was a Rockwell catalog with a nice section on the AIM
65.  I'm now pretty sure that the ebay AIM 65 in the cream case was a
standard AIM.  I had only seen black (or no) cases before, but the catalog
shows a bunch in the cream case.

-- Doug



From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Sat Sep 19 19:20:25 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.n
 et>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919144000.18646G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980919172025.030106a4@ferrari.sfu.ca>

Hi Doug:

Another thought might be to post a list of the titles, and lend for
scanning purposes a copy of any titles not already available on the net.
They could then be posted for others reference.

There are several titles already on http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8, I'm
currently scanning DEC's "Introduction to Programming, Volume 1" from 1972.
The other scans are courtesy of the efforts of David Gesswein.

Congratulations on your haul!

Kevin


At 06:01 PM 98/09/19 -0500, you wrote:
>Lucky me.  I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today.  A nice
>assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles.  I don't do DEC (I remember
>cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last
>time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon
>Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so.
>
>Except for one.  This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful
>info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only).  This
>looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep
>understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS,
>unibus, the works.  I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's
>double-sided 8.5x11x2".  If some DEC-head could use this, let me know. 
>Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) 
>
>-- Doug
>
>
>

---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 19 19:30:54 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <19980920003055.24446.qmail@hotmail.com>





So, why are they so expensive then?
>
>> I'm only 15...  I had a few plans for a few things, but the only 
problem is
>> that I need to find an EPROM programmer and some old chips.  Any idea 
where
>> to get one - cheap??
>
>You might get an old EPROM programmer at a Radio rally/hamfest. But 
>they're often not that cheap. How about buildign one for your next 
>project - to program standard EPROMs (2764s - 27512s, say) is not that 
>hard. Basically you have to set up the address and data, take one of 
the 
>pins (Vpp) up to 12.5V (or 21V, or even 25V on older devices) and then 
>apply a 50ms program pulse to another pin. And repeat for all the 
>locations you want to program.
>
>When i built my first embedded control system I had to build an EPROM 
>programmer first....
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 19 19:41:33 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980919172025.030106a4@ferrari.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919192810.16607C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Kevin McQuiggin wrote:

> Another thought might be to post a list of the titles, and lend for
> scanning purposes a copy of any titles not already available on the net.

Sure, if somebody local to me (Bay Area) wants to scan these, that would
be cool (the earliest two were already in my collection):

Digital Logic Handbook, 1961
The Digital Logic Handbook, 1966
pdp8/e, pdp8/m, & pdp8/f small computer handbook, 1973
introduction to programming (pdp-8), 1973
processor handbook pdp11/45, 1973
logic handbook, 1975
pdp11/34 processor handbook, 1976
pdp11 peripherals handbook, 1976
VAX-11/780 Architecture Handbook, 1977
pdp11 software handbook, 1978
terminals and communications handbook, 1978
Distributed Systems Handbook, 1978
Spares Kit Handbook, 1979
RL01/02 Pocket Service Guide, 1979
microcomputer processor handbook, 1979
VAX Diagnostic Systems User's Guide, 1980
terminals and communications handbook, 1980
cables handbook, 1980
peripherals handbook, 1980
VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbook, 1980

-- Doug



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 19 19:34:09 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980920003055.24446.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 19, 98 05:30:54 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKXS8-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 19 19:44:12 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <36043E45.75DBB7B5@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919194341.16607D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
> interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
> various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
> not much over a year ago.

http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm

-- Doug



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sat Sep 19 19:44:11 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919144000.18646G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <m0zKRym-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980919174411.0333a100@agora.rdrop.com>

At 02:49 PM 9/19/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>Today I plugged in the front panel and a Cromemco ZPU.  It worked!  The
>address LEDs 15, 14 and 13 are sequencing in a binary pattern.  I don't
>know what this means, but at least it shows life.  I got the same results
>with another ZPU.  I can single-step it and see different stuff happening,
>but I have no idea what its doing.  I buried my friggin IMSAI manual in a
>box a few weeks back.

No memory installed?  It is executing a RST 7 (0FFH) which pushes the
current address onto the stack and jumps to 038H (070 octal), and finding
yet another 0FFH there, repeats the exercise forever...  You are seeing the
stack pointer reflected in the lights when running...

It's a good sign.

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sat Sep 19 19:45:44 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.n
 et>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919144000.18646G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980919174544.0333ad20@agora.rdrop.com>

At 06:01 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Lucky me.  I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today.  A nice
>assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles.  I don't do DEC (I remember
>cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last
>time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon
>Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so.
>
>Except for one.  This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful
>info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only).  This
>looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep
>understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS,
>unibus, the works.  I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's
>double-sided 8.5x11x2".  If some DEC-head could use this, let me know. 
>Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) 

Hmmm... Think I'd like to have that one!  Wonder if I've got that Intel
manual buried somewhere...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 19 19:53:33 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <19980920005334.9334.qmail@hotmail.com>





Interesting that BG actually realizes that the filesystem where he
never had to save anything was cool. And why, may I ask, did he
never try this on a PC? With today's fast hard drives, this could
probably be done.
>> That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
>> interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
>> various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
>> not much over a year ago.
>
>http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm
>
>-- Doug
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sat Sep 19 19:51:05 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <36043E45.75DBB7B5@cnct.com>
References: <19980919195606.20092.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980919175105.0333ab20@agora.rdrop.com>


Well... having no specific definitive knowledge on the topic, I can offer
the following comment...

A couple of years back, when I loaned Mr. Gates one of the Altairs from my
collection for him to use in a presentation to the Smithsonian (has anyone
seen the video of the interview?), I spent about 2 hours teaching a couple
of his minions how to start up an Altair, start BASIC from a ROM card, and
enter and run a 20+ year old three line sine wave program (which he used in
the presentation and claimed as his own) so that they could pass this
arcane knowledge back to him...

All of this while I was restoring an Altair 8800B for him...

(ah... the stories...)

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 19 20:24:14 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
References: <m0zKWvk-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <3604593E.55C1@bright.net>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these
> > machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up:
> > "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)"
> 
> That normally means that something has changed since the CMOS RAM was
> configured.
> 
> > Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory
> > during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error.
> 
> Which version of the system board do you have? The older one has 36 RAM
> chips, each one being a 128K*1 device (actually made from 2 DIPs soldered
> together). The later one has 18 256K*1 bit devices on it. I have
> schematics, etc for both boards.
> 
> The partiy error sounds like a RAM chip failing. Try reseating them, and
> if it's the later version, try replacing the RAMs one at a time with
> known-good ones. 256K*1 DRAMs are pretty easy to get, and the ones on the
> system board are socketed.
> 
> > Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software
> 
> There are 2 switch-things on the system board (unless you count the
> little 8-pin DIP postion behind the expansion slots that can be used to
> fiddle with the ROM addressing).
> 
> One is a slide switch next to the power connector. In one position the
> board is set up for an MDA display. The other way for a CGA one. I can't
> remember which is which, but if you get it wrong, all that happens is
> that it fails the POST and beeps. Flip the switch and try again.
> 
> The other is a jumper (J18) to the left of the speaker connector at the
> front). This selects between 256K and 512K for RAM on the system board.
> Check this is set the same way on both your boards.
> 
> > program?
> 
> Yes, SETUP is the program used to load the parameters into the CMOS RAM.
> Unlike most modern PCs, this is not in ROM, but has to be loaded from
> disk. There's a free clone (with source, I think) on Simtel somewhere. If
> the parameters have got scrambled, then about the only thing it can boot
> from is a 5.25" drive as A:
> 
> -tony

Thanks for the very helpful information Tony. I would like a copy of
the  shematic if you can swing it!

--Alan

-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
<A
HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>


From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 19 20:32:12 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919194341.16607D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <36045B1C.6936@bright.net>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> > That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
> > interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
> > various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
> > not much over a year ago.
> 
> http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm
> 
> -- Doug

Thanks for the info Doug!

--Alan

-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
<A
HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>


From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Sat Sep 19 20:51:19 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809192327.QAA24153@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980919204957.31349B-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>



> I have a BAL-500 EMROM Programmer for the Apple II I've been meaning to 
> experiment with.  No documentation or software, of course.  Is any 
> "special" software required to operate an EPROM programmer, or can it be 
> programmed using the Apple II's BASIC or Assembly (not that I know 
> assembly)?

Yes!  Something I can help with.  To get to the BAL-500 menu, which is 
onboard, you just put it in a slot and do PR#X where X is the slot number 
it's in.  It'll bring up a menu of things you can do with it.

Simple!

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead

PS:  At least I think I have a BAL-500.  Try it and see.



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sat Sep 19 22:55:41 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits
Message-ID: <v04011703b22a29eb9e04@[207.220.32.78]>

Last weekend I got a Monochrome NeXTstation Turbo slab, and with a little
difficulty was able to clear out the root password using the procedures
that are fairly easy to find on DejaNews.  However, NetInfo was giving me a
fit, and kept setting the root password back to something else.  Never did
solve that, because I found a cleaner solution.

I found a message using DejaNews in which someone recommends prior to
selling a networked NeXT system that you copy

	/usr/templates/client/etc/hostconfig and netinfo/* to
	/private/etc and then reboot.

The system is then in a "out of the box" standalone configuration.  When
you reboot you're then in the "me" account.


Another useful piece of info that I found is that most of the "Lighthouse
Design" apps are now available with a free 2 user license at
http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign/  These apps seem to all be
quad-fat binaries, and include a Word Processor, 2 different Spreadsheets,
a Database, Bitmap and Vector based graphics programs, and some other
stuff.  You can use them to turn your old NeXT system into a truely useful
system.

Not sure what you'd have to do for a local printer, I'm printing over the
network to the Postscript HP 5MP on my Linux box.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 19 22:03:09 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
Message-ID: <199809200328.XAA03486@gate.usaor.net>

I had a similar problem when I got my 5170 board.  I replaced the RAM
chips, and it worked fine after I ran SETUP.  

Try replacing the RAM chips.  It sounds like that that is your problem,
too.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: oajones <oajones@bright.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Help: IBM 5170
> Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 6:59 PM
> 
> Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these
> machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up:
> "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)"
> Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory
> during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error.
> Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software
> program?
> 
> Thanks...
> --Alan
> -- 
> Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
> Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
> BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
> <A
> HREF="http://www.bright.net/~oajones">http://www.bright.net/~oajones</A>


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 19 22:06:25 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809200328.XAA03496@gate.usaor.net>

> Can I recomend that you grab the parallel port FAQ off the web. Those 
> printer ports are really 12 output lines and 4 input lines each. You can 
> do all sorts of neat stuff with those. Like _directly_ control the 
> stepper motors (or use some simple stepper control ICs). Hook up 
> switches/sensors. You can do that from BASIC, but I think you have to be 
> running MS-DOS and not Windows (cetainly not 95 or NT), since that tends 
> to get in the way of direct port access.
> 

That's not a problem.  I'm using a Tandy 1000TX running DOS 3.2, and
GW-BASIC 3.11

> Using the electronics from the printer, faking it so it thinks it's still

> connected to a printer, and the using the motors seems a rather complex 
> way to do it, actually.

Maybe.  I'm just trying to get something to work, first, then I'll improve
it and make it easier to use after it works.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 19 22:15:44 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: High density disks on double density drives
Message-ID: <199809200328.XAA03523@gate.usaor.net>

In PC's, I always use 1.44 meg disks in 720k drives.  I just tape over the
second hole, and format them in one of my 720k machines.  I have one of
these "doctored" disks that is 5 years old, and still holding its original
data strong and true.  It has even been around magnetic fields (slit off
monitor onto back, right above coil), and hasn't lost a byte.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis@freegate.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: High density disks on double density drives
> Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 2:41 PM
> 
> It is neither the drive nor the controller per-se, it is the read/write
> heads and the media that are incompatible. HD disk media requires a
higher
> magnetic field to magnetize reliably and the DD drives don't provide it. 
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> At 01:36 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >I've heard that you shouldn't use high density disks in double 
> >density drives, that the data wouldn't be reliable.  


From scott at saskatoon.com  Sat Sep 19 23:13:47 1998
From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <000001bde35c$2e13fc40$55519ad1@albertj>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980919221057.20454A-100000@walde.cprompt.sk.ca>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Albert J. McCann, Jr. wrote:

> > >client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone Win
> > >apps, but I can't remember any names.
> 
> > The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".  
> > It's Windows 1.x
> 
> Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows.

When I started selling computers in 1990, we had Aldus Pagemaker (v?) on
the shelf.  It included run-time windows v2.x.

Did this practice stop with Windows v3.0?  Everything anyone has mentioned
here was v1 or v2.

ttyl
srw




From scott at saskatoon.com  Sat Sep 19 23:17:55 1998
From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <360343FE.9A1F1E46@rain.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980919221453.20454B-100000@walde.cprompt.sk.ca>

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote:

> > I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 'traveling
 
> The ones for heating appliances are basically some type of switching
> circuit, while some of the others are actually step up/down transformers.  I

I was under the impression that these were simply a diode.  Without
burning too many braincells, it seems to me this should work.  (half the
sine wave, half the area under the curve (actually, the square of the
curve), half the power.)

ttyl
srw




From marvin at rain.org  Sat Sep 19 23:17:57 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: High density disks on double density drives
References: <199809200328.XAA03523@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <360481F5.5E202845@rain.org>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
> 
> In PC's, I always use 1.44 meg disks in 720k drives.  I just tape over the
> second hole, and format them in one of my 720k machines.  I have one of

Going from memory, the orstead rating for 360K diskettes is 300, 1.2M is
600, 720K is 600, and 1.4MB is 700.  As such, the difference between 720K
and 1.44 MB is marginal but will still work.  It is more common to take the
720K diskettes and punch a new hole in them to use them as 1.44.  As you can
see though, the difference between 360K and 1.2 MB is much greater, and at
best is not reliable.  There have been many discussions about this over the
past 15 years or so.

Another area of controversy is using 360K disks to transfer information
between 1.2 and 360 drives.  Nutshell description: if the diskette has been
bulk erased and formatted and information written by the 1.2 (of course
using the /4 or f:360 switch), it will work fine.  Once a disk has been
written to by the 360K disk, writting to it again with the 1.2 can
frequently result in an unreadable disk on a 360 drive.


From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 19 23:27:01 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980919221057.20454A-100000@walde.cprompt.sk.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919232055.16607J-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Scott Walde wrote:

> When I started selling computers in 1990, we had Aldus Pagemaker (v?) on
> the shelf.  It included run-time windows v2.x.
> 
> Did this practice stop with Windows v3.0?  Everything anyone has mentioned
> here was v1 or v2.

Yes, Microsoft was intent on positioning Win3 as an operating system, not
as a mere GUI. As a developer at the time, I found this a bit presumptious
of them :-)  I distinctly remember asking a Microsofty if Win3 would be
released in run-time form and getting a terse "no."  It was clearly a
strategic descision.

-- Doug




From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 20 00:58:44 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits (hijacking a NeXT Computer properly / other tidbits)
Message-ID: <199809200555.VAA05517@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

You can blow away the netinfo database if you like... tho' it's  
somewhat crude.
There's a simple way to hijack a NeXT computer from the console.



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Sun Sep 20 00:26:28 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits (hijacking a NeXT Computer properly / other tidbits)
In-Reply-To: <199809200555.VAA05517@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980919222517.29763B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

When I try to do a "bsd -s" from the monitor I still get a password
prompt.  That was after removing the hardware password by leaving the
battery out of the machine for two days!

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> You can blow away the netinfo database if you like... tho' it's  
> somewhat crude.
> There's a simple way to hijack a NeXT computer from the console.
> 
> >From the Rom-based console type:
> bsd -s
> 
> Once it boots do:
> sh /etc/rc &
> passwd root
> <type in your password>
> reboot
> (Physically turn system off and then on again at reboot)
> 
> Note that of course you can't do this unless you're sitting at the  
> console.
> 
> Another tip:
> If you have troubles writing files in single user mode (using bsd  
> -s), just remount the file system:
> 
> moun t -o remount /
> 
> ----
> 
> It's too bad you didn't notice the great applications that are  
> around for NeXTStep a couple years earlier.  You would have seen a  
> great many more of them than are available today anywhere.  Pre-press  
> was awesome with postscript.  More average applications like  
> scanning applications and such are way ahead of their time.  And then  
> of course there's the  Lighthouse Application Suite which you did  
> find [that's great]!
> 
> Rhapsody/Mac OS X Server is <deleted> <deleted> <deleted> <deleted>
> Oops... I think that's supposed to be a surprise.
> 
> I just bought a 68030 cube last week.  I'm currently running  
> NeXTStep on Sun Sparc hardware.  Since my 68040 machine is at work  
> it'll be fun to set up some CRON jobs that run  DSP [audio] programs  
> at home.  First I have to find an affordable monitor, keyboard, mouse  
> and long connector cable for it.
> 
> There are all sorts of fun things you can do with a NeXT computer.   
> It is the ultimate hobbyist computer if you give it half a chance.
> 
> I have a NeXT machine at http://next.ireadyco.com and software along  
> with some software not on the archives if anyone is interested.
> 
> Speaking of software not on the archives, there's a lot of neat  
> hobbiest stuff that was released with the original OS and machine in  
> 1988.  Most of this has disappeared off the NeXT archives (peak,  
> peanuts, etc).  I found a lot of it on an old-days CD-ROM I bought at  
> NeXTWorld.
> 
> Thomas
> 



From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 20 01:26:29 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits [Printing]
Message-ID: <199809200623.WAA05556@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

I've never figured out how to hook into a printer on another system  
[FROM  NeXTStep/Rhapsody] which is annoying.  It's easy if you're in  
the same location as netinfo handles everything for you... but I  
haven't been able to get one NeXT machine speaking remotely to  
another NeXT machine's laser printer without netinfo at long  
distances.

I had better luck getting Windows networking and printing to work  
with my NeXT machine tho'.  I expose my printer to my login account  
and can print from any Windows machine on the Internet to my NeXT  
machine once I login.  Using Samba, you can have both Windows  
Networking and can configure your NeXT machine to look like a  
Postscript Laserprinter which is just _dandy_ for printing quick  
output from Win95 when you're away from home.

Thomas


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 20 00:26:24 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Warming up an IMSAI P/S
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980919174411.0333a100@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919222131.18646P-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:

> No memory installed?  It is executing a RST 7 (0FFH) which pushes the

Nope.  No memory yet.  I still have to figure out how to set the jumpers
on the Dynabyte 16K Static RAMs I've got.  I know I have docs somewhere
but they're buried.

> current address onto the stack and jumps to 038H (070 octal), and finding
> yet another 0FFH there, repeats the exercise forever...  You are seeing the
> stack pointer reflected in the lights when running...
> 
> It's a good sign.

COol.  I knew it was a good sign.  That makes sense then, since in single
step mode the address and data patterns kept repeating after about 5 or 6
steps.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sun Sep 20 00:55:57 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
Message-ID: <19980920.005802.224.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:13:47 -0600 (CST) Scott Walde
<scott@saskatoon.com> writes:
>On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Albert J. McCann, Jr. wrote:
>
>> > >client was a stand-alone GEOS app.  I know there were stand-alone 
>Win
>> > >apps, but I can't remember any names.
>> 
>> > The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".  
>> > It's Windows 1.x
>> 
>> Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows.
>
>When I started selling computers in 1990, we had Aldus Pagemaker (v?) 
>on
>the shelf.  It included run-time windows v2.x.

As did Samna's Ami (before it became 'PRO').  I still think Ami 1.0 is
the best
windoze wordprocessor ever written: SImple, but powerful and easy to use.
It won't run under 3.1 though (sigh).

>
>Did this practice stop with Windows v3.0?  Everything anyone has 
>mentioned
>here was v1 or v2.
>
>ttyl
>srw
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From sethm at loomcom.com  Sun Sep 20 01:41:25 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 19, 98 06:01:52 pm
Message-ID: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com>

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From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 03:11:59 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits [Printing]
In-Reply-To: <199809200623.WAA05556@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <v04011709b22a6610c0e9@[207.220.32.78]>

>Hi,
>
>I've never figured out how to hook into a printer on another system
>[FROM  NeXTStep/Rhapsody] which is annoying.  It's easy if you're in
>the same location as netinfo handles everything for you... but I
>haven't been able to get one NeXT machine speaking remotely to
>another NeXT machine's laser printer without netinfo at long
>distances.
>
>I had better luck getting Windows networking and printing to work
>with my NeXT machine tho'.  I expose my printer to my login account
>and can print from any Windows machine on the Internet to my NeXT
>machine once I login.  Using Samba, you can have both Windows
>Networking and can configure your NeXT machine to look like a
>Postscript Laserprinter which is just _dandy_ for printing quick
>output from Win95 when you're away from home.
>
>Thomas

I've done it two different ways.  The first way was about a year ago, from
my OPENSTEP 4.2 system.  I set up CAP, and printed to my Mac using
Appletalk.  You have to run "Laserwriter Bridge" on the Mac which bridges
the ethernet to localtalk.

The way I've set up this last week is to configure my Linux box to accept
remote print jobs from my NeXT slab.  Then setup a printcap entry on the
NeXT for the printer.  To do this I did a:

	nidump printcap . >/tmp/printcap

edited the file then

	niload printcap . </tmp/printcap

you need a printcap entry that looks something like:

lj1:\
	:lp=:rp=cse-lj1:rm=some.host.com:\
	:sd=/usr/spool/cse-lj1:

where 'rp' is remote printer name, 'rm' is remote host, and 'sd' is spool
directory on you system.

As long as both systems are set up correctly, you should be able to print
over the internet.  The big thing is setting up the machine with the
printer attached to accept print jobs from the client.

I've not tried the Samba solution.


			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 03:22:52 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: NeXT tidbits (hijacking a NeXT Computer properly / other
 tidbits)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980919222517.29763B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
References: <199809200555.VAA05517@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <v04011701b22a6b7c0733@[192.168.1.2]>

>When I try to do a "bsd -s" from the monitor I still get a password
>prompt.  That was after removing the hardware password by leaving the
>battery out of the machine for two days!

That's intriguing, when I cleared my HW password it only took a couple of
hours without the battery installed to clear the password.  A couple of
days should definitly have cleared it from everything I've read.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sun Sep 20 04:10:58 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
In-Reply-To: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com>
        "Re: CP/M definition" (Sep 19, 19:03)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919114048.18646D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> 
	<36043827.981718C9@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <9809201010.ZM15574@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 19, 19:03, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> Subject: Re: CP/M definition
> Sam Ismail wrote:
> >
> > This is from the CP/M FAQ:
> >
> > Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything?
> >
> > A: (Don Kirkpatrick)
> >
> >    There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for
> >    Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control
> >    Program/Monitor.  The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M
> >    books giving different answers.  According to Gary Kildall (the
> >    author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show
> >    "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is:
> >    Control Program for Microcomputers.  This is also consistent with
> >    DRI documentation.  See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual.
> >
> > If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself).
>
> "Control Program for Microcomputers" is what I recall from magazine
> articles in the 70s and it's what's used in my CP/M 3.0 manuals.

The first line on page 1 of my CP/M 2.2 manual says "CP/M? is a
monitor/control program ..."

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From gram at cnct.com  Sun Sep 20 05:19:12 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919114048.18646D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> 
		<36043827.981718C9@cnct.com> <9809201010.ZM15574@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3604D6A0.5706464E@cnct.com>

Pete Turnbull wrote:
> 
> On Sep 19, 19:03, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> > Subject: Re: CP/M definition
> > Sam Ismail wrote:
> > >
> > > This is from the CP/M FAQ:
> > >
> > > Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything?
> > >
> > > A: (Don Kirkpatrick)
> > >
> > >    There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for
> > >    Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control
> > >    Program/Monitor.  The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M
> > >    books giving different answers.  According to Gary Kildall (the
> > >    author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show
> > >    "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is:
> > >    Control Program for Microcomputers.  This is also consistent with
> > >    DRI documentation.  See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual.
> > >
> > > If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself).
> >
> > "Control Program for Microcomputers" is what I recall from magazine
> > articles in the 70s and it's what's used in my CP/M 3.0 manuals.
> 
> The first line on page 1 of my CP/M 2.2 manual says "CP/M? is a
> monitor/control program ..."

It is indeed a monitor/control program.  That does not mean that that
is what the initials stand for.  In the same way I can say that WG is
a weird geek.  (Actually, it's other people who usually say that -- I
just don't actively [or actually] disagree with them).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sun Sep 20 05:37:29 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
In-Reply-To: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com>
        "Re: CP/M definition" (Sep 20,  6:19)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919114048.18646D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> 
	<36043827.981718C9@cnct.com> 
Message-ID: <9809201137.ZM15708@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 20,  6:19, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > The first line on page 1 of my CP/M 2.2 manual says "CP/M? is a
> > monitor/control program ..."
>
> It is indeed a monitor/control program.  That does not mean that that
> is what the initials stand for.  In the same way I can say that WG is
> a weird geek.  (Actually, it's other people who usually say that -- I
> just don't actively [or actually] disagree with them).

Sure, but the point I was making was simply that it's referred to
differently in different places.  For example, other CP/M documentation
refers to it as "a control program for microprocessors" -- but the 2.2 docs
don't (AFAICS).  I think trying to decide on a canonical definition of what
CP/M stands for is futile -- since DR were themeselves inconsistent over
time.  Much the same thing happens in lots of other places, and it's not
unusual for someone to pick a name simply because it has multiple meanings
or interpretations.

I think it's significant that early DR docs don't explicitly say what the
acronym stands for (or even that it's an acronym).

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 20 07:59:57 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
Message-ID: <980920085957.d7@trailing-edge.com>

>I think trying to decide on a canonical definition of what
>CP/M stands for is futile -- since DR were themeselves inconsistent over
>time.

Even the name of the company changed over time.  Don't forget
Digital Research Intergalactic!

Tim.


From rcini at email.msn.com  Sun Sep 20 07:57:12 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Re.: CP/M Definition
Message-ID: <001401bde499$4bbdc8a0$8d0ffea9@mainoffice>


    Contrtol Program for Microcomputers according to Digital Research ads in
early Byte magazines.

>>This is from the CP/M FAQ:
>>Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything?
>>A: (Don Kirkpatrick)
{snip}


Rich Cini/WUGNET
  - ClubWin!/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Collector of "classic" computers
<=========  reply separator ==========>





From rcini at email.msn.com  Sun Sep 20 08:17:03 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Re.: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <001501bde499$4c97fc00$8d0ffea9@mainoffice>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:56:06 PDT, "Max Eskin" <maxeskin@hotmail.com> wrote:


>>I believe his last program was in 1986 for a Tandy machine. He's been
>>strictly buisness after that.

    Didn't Gates work on the BASIC on the Model 100?

    At the risk of a flame war...I think that Gates walks a razor-thin line
between really aggressive and monopolistic. No question, he and Microsoft
are successful, through a combination of luck, brass balls, and the paranoid
fear of being technologically overtaken by another technology company. I
also think that a portion of Microsoft's problems today can be attributed to
sour grapes by some of the competition, fueled by books and articles in
recent years which showcase Gates' incredible wealth and Microsoft's amazing
success.

    Now, back to our regularly-scheduled program...

    The earliest programming example comes from "Gates" by Stephen Manes and
Paul Andrews. Gates and Allen worked on an 8080 emulator on Aiken Lab's
(Harvard) PDP10s during the winter '75 break. The Altair Basic command set
was lifted from DEC's RSTS-11 Basic-Plus, which Gates considered elegant.
The simulator code was dated 2/9/75.

    "Programmers at Work" by Susan Lammers quotes Gates as saying that there
wasn't a program at Microsoft (at the time; the book is (c) 1986, 1989) in
which he was not involved. Microsoft's Basic interpreter products are
attributed to Gates, as is the work on the Model 100. At the time, Microsoft
had 160 programmers, and Gates was intimately involved in the code review
process, noting that there wasn't a piece of code which he didn't read.


Rich Cini/WUGNET
  - ClubWin!/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Collector of "classic" computers
<=========  reply separator ==========>





From amc358 at interserv.com  Sun Sep 20 09:07:16 1998
From: amc358 at interserv.com (Albert J. McCann, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918192913.351C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <000001bde49f$fd7b6f60$0d3f9ad1@albertj>

> On Friday, September 18, 1998 10:30 PM,

> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, dastar@siconic.com wrote:
> Keep scouring those ham fests or swap meets.  Check the web
> for the one nearest you.

For hamfest info, go to:

http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html


Al McCann (who goes to hamfests because it is the last place left to buy
cheap electronic parts in onsy twosy quantities, and surplus circuit
boards.)



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 20 10:23:59 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
Message-ID: <199809201523.AA28873@world.std.com>


< They won't last more than 20 years, sorry :)

Depends.  The older ones may not, the later one are on far better paper
though still not low acid.  That change started in the early 80s.

My introduction to programming 1972 is still doing well considering the 
newsprint it's on.

< Seriously, all the DEC processor and programming paperbacks I've come
< accross are printed on highly acidic paper, almost newsprint quality.
< They can be de-acidified, if it's not too late.  Check by gently

None the less if it's a thing your serious about preserving then proceed.

Allison



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Sep 20 12:05:50 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: CP/M definition
In-Reply-To: <980920085957.d7@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980920100550.035b2230@agora.rdrop.com>

At 08:59 AM 9/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think trying to decide on a canonical definition of what
>>CP/M stands for is futile -- since DR were themeselves inconsistent over
>>time.
>
>Even the name of the company changed over time.  Don't forget
>Digital Research Intergalactic!
>
>Tim.

Ummm...  wasn't it "Intergalactic Digital Research"?

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Sun Sep 20 12:16:42 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:44 2005
Subject: Hewlett Packard 9835B
Message-ID: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

We picked one up at the MIT flea today. Anyone know much about it? It
seems to be working.

Tony


From marvin at rain.org  Sun Sep 20 12:52:55 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: IBM 5103 Printer
References: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
Message-ID: <360540F7.E32D5F09@rain.org>

I fired up my IBM 5100 getting it ready for the VCF 2.0, and found the
inking or feed rolls on the 5103 printer, shall we say, disintegrating.  I
did a brief check on the web and didn't find anything available.  Anyone
know if these rolls might even be available?  I did find the ribbons but
they won't do me much good if the printer won't feed them :).


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Sun Sep 20 13:10:48 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980919175105.0333ab20@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980920140918.12487A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:
> A couple of years back, when I loaned Mr. Gates one of the Altairs from my
> collection for him to use in a presentation to the Smithsonian (has anyone

DOH!  An oppourtunity to plant a fatal booby-trap (no, I aint talking
blue-screens) missed! 

  -wayne




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep 20 02:25:08 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919194341.16607D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <36045B1C.6936@bright.net>
Message-ID: <3604ADD4.C9FB4440@sprintmail.com>

> Doug Yowza wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> >
> > > That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
> > > interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
> > > various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
> > > not much over a year ago.
> >
> > http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm
> >
> > -- Doug

This machine is one of my favorites (Model 100), in fact I use it quite
often..Very Cool the fact it runs on 4 AA batteries, and at that for many
hours..
It has no need for storage, it holds it all in its own memory. I have
several applications
I use it for that I wrote in basic.
That was an interesting article, to know that Bill Gates had a major hand in

writing the code for this machine.. The Radio Shack Model 100 is defiantly a
very cool
machine..
BTW: I was at Service Merchandise the other day and they had a similar
machine running
a GUI based software (Not Windows SE) , but it had the same concept as the
Model 100,
but with a GUI, No floppy drive, just memory storage, and a serial plug to
Up load the data..
It was not a pocket type, but a lap top size computer. Priced at $299.00
(Very Cheap)..
Price was so inexpensive bacause of no Hard Drive or Floppy,
No Color either but very good VGA type monochrome graphs and text..
A great machine for simple applications like WP and spreadsheets
--Phil



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 20 14:20:21 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <3604ADD4.C9FB4440@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920122006.27909C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> BTW: I was at Service Merchandise the other day and they had a similar
> machine running a GUI based software (Not Windows SE) , but it had the
> same concept as the Model 100, but with a GUI, No floppy drive, just
> memory storage, and a serial plug to Up load the data..  It was not a
> pocket type, but a lap top size computer. Priced at $299.00 (Very
> Cheap)..  Price was so inexpensive bacause of no Hard Drive or Floppy,
> No Color either but very good VGA type monochrome graphs and text..  A
> great machine for simple applications like WP and spreadsheets --Phil

Did you know they put a man on the moon, too?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 15:13:41 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
Message-ID: <19980920201342.27119.qmail@hotmail.com>





Hmmm...a BROTHER running GEOS, by any chance?
>
>> Doug Yowza wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
>> >
>> > > That is what has been reported.  There used to be a link to an
>> > > interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my
>> > > various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it
>> > > not much over a year ago.
>> >
>> > http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm
>> >
>> > -- Doug
>
>This machine is one of my favorites (Model 100), in fact I use it quite
>often..Very Cool the fact it runs on 4 AA batteries, and at that for 
many
>hours..
>It has no need for storage, it holds it all in its own memory. I have
>several applications
>I use it for that I wrote in basic.
>That was an interesting article, to know that Bill Gates had a major 
hand in
>
>writing the code for this machine.. The Radio Shack Model 100 is 
defiantly a
>very cool
>machine..
>BTW: I was at Service Merchandise the other day and they had a similar
>machine running
>a GUI based software (Not Windows SE) , but it had the same concept as 
the
>Model 100,
>but with a GUI, No floppy drive, just memory storage, and a serial plug 
to
>Up load the data..
>It was not a pocket type, but a lap top size computer. Priced at 
$299.00
>(Very Cheap)..
>Price was so inexpensive bacause of no Hard Drive or Floppy,
>No Color either but very good VGA type monochrome graphs and text..
>A great machine for simple applications like WP and spreadsheets
>--Phil
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 15:15:45 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com>


I'm having a little problem with Linux. I deleted the /dev/printer
socket, and don't know how to get it back. I really don't feel like
swapping floppies for three hours again, either. Anyone got ideas?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 15:25:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920152425.9991A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> I'm having a little problem with Linux. I deleted the /dev/printer
> socket, and don't know how to get it back. I really don't feel like
> swapping floppies for three hours again, either. Anyone got ideas?

Lart the luser, revoke his root, and then shutdown and restart the lpd
process.

-- Doug



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 09:08:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <199809200328.XAA03496@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 19, 98 11:06:25 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKk9l-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 09:17:40 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980919221453.20454B-100000@walde.cprompt.sk.ca> from "Scott Walde" at Sep 19, 98 10:17:55 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKkJ5-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Sun Sep 20 16:05:05 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows
In-Reply-To: <36013C75.43A1221C@sprintmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980920160505.39dfb298@intellistar.net>

>
>Brings me to a question does anyone have a copy of the original DOS Version
>1.0 ?


  No, but I have a complete package of DOS 1.1 .




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep 20 04:39:39 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920122006.27909C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3604CD5B.8FFA20E9@sprintmail.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:

> Did you know they put a man on the moon, too?
>
> Sam

Who Bill Gates or Radio Shack ?



From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 16:58:00 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:01:52 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980920215800.28118.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Doug Yowza writes:
> Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-) 

I don't need a VAX-11/750 book (even if it is phenomenally rare), but I
do have an MCS-4 manual.  I'm not letting it out of my sight, but my arm
could perhaps be twisted to scan it and provide a PDF file.

I wonder if Intel would be willing to grant permission for online
distribution of their out-of-print manuals?

Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 17:11:27 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920122006.27909C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920122006.27909C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980920221127.28337.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Phil Clayton wrote:
> BTW: I was at Service Merchandise the other day and they had a similar

Sam Ismail replied:
> Did you know they put a man on the moon, too?

Service Merchandise?  When???!!!  Is that why they closed so many of their
retail outlets, to save money for their space program?


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 17:15:10 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <m0zKk9l-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zKk9l-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980920221510.28352.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running 
> Windows on an 8088

Are you certain?  I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs?

Not that anyone in their right mind would have wanted to run Windows 1.0,
but that's an entirely different issue.


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Sun Sep 20 18:20:54 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Hewlett Packard 9835B
In-Reply-To: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980920182054.39d7634c@intellistar.net>

Tony,

  All I know is that it a less powerfull version of the 9845. SOME of my
9845 manuals also apply to the 9835.  I have a friend in Texas that has a
9835.  I'll send you his address privately.

   Joe

At 01:16 PM 9/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>We picked one up at the MIT flea today. Anyone know much about it? It
>seems to be working.
>
>Tony
>



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 16:22:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Does Bill Gates know how to program?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980920140918.12487A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 20, 98 02:10:48 pm
Message-ID: <m0zKqwZ-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 17:18:49 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Hewlett Packard 9835B
In-Reply-To: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> (message from Tony
	Dellett on Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:16:42 -0400)
References: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
Message-ID: <19980920221849.28367.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Dellett wrote about the HP 9835B:
> We picked one up at the MIT flea today. Anyone know much about it? It
> seems to be working.

Uses a 16-bit custom multichip processor by HP.  Runs BASIC.  Photocopies
of the manual were still available from HP last time I checked.

Anybody got a spare assembler ROM for the 9835 or 9845?



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Sun Sep 20 17:27:48 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980920221510.28352.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 20, 98 10:15:10 pm
Message-ID: <199809202227.QAA25374@calico.litterbox.com>

Anything up to windows 3.0 will run on an xt, given enough memory and disk
space.  (win 3.0 will run in real mode).  I used to follow the HP200lx 
mailing lists and people actually got win 3.0 to run on the hp200lx, which
is an xt class machine with cga.  

In theory win95 will run in safe mode on one, but I haven't ever tried it, 
and safe mode isn't very useful anyway.  Safe mode is apparently very similar
to win 3.0/3.1's real mode.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 17:23:11 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com> (maxeskin@hotmail.com)
References: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <19980920222311.28401.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Max Eskin" wrote:
> I'm having a little problem with Linux. I deleted the /dev/printer

Wow, I didn't realize that Linux ran on any classic computers.  (Although
there were some people working on a VAX port.)  What kind of classic
computer are you running it on?

Anybody know where I can get an IBM 360/30?  It would be fun to port Linux
to that, although the lack of paging would be a bit of a problem.  One of
the cool things about the 360/30 is that you can alter the microcode using
a standard keypuch machine.



From marvin at rain.org  Sun Sep 20 17:37:58 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <m0zKk9l-000IyMC@p850ug1> <19980920221510.28352.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <360583C6.849D9F26@rain.org>

Eric Smith wrote:
> 
> Tony Duell wrote:
> > As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running
> > Windows on an 8088
> 
> Are you certain?  I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs?

Windows 3.0 was the last version to be able to run on an 8088 when Windows
was started in Real mode.


From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 17:39:32 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
In-Reply-To: <19980920215800.28118.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920173410.22637B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 20 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> I don't need a VAX-11/750 book (even if it is phenomenally rare), but I
> do have an MCS-4 manual.  I'm not letting it out of my sight, but my arm
> could perhaps be twisted to scan it and provide a PDF file.

Twwwwwist. There, how's that?

> I wonder if Intel would be willing to grant permission for online
> distribution of their out-of-print manuals?

Probably, but you'd need to wind through countless intelcrats and lawyers.
It would be easier to simply publish the thing, and let them find you if
they care enough.  You can blame me if they want to sue you.

-- Doug



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Sun Sep 20 18:38:38 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Hewlett Packard 9835B
In-Reply-To: <19980920221849.28367.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
 <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980920183838.39e7573e@intellistar.net>

At 10:18 PM 9/20/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Tony Dellett wrote about the HP 9835B:
>> We picked one up at the MIT flea today. Anyone know much about it? It
>> seems to be working.
>
>Uses a 16-bit custom multichip processor by HP.  Runs BASIC.  Photocopies
>of the manual were still available from HP last time I checked.
>
>Anybody got a spare assembler ROM for the 9835 or 9845?

   I might.  Do you have a 9835 or 45?

   Joe

>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Sun Sep 20 18:40:47 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: To Tony Dellett 
In-Reply-To: <19980920222341.AAA29936@star1.intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980920184047.39df70b6@intellistar.net>

Tony,

  Send me your REAL address and I'll send the info that I promised.

  Joe

At 06:23 PM 9/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
>
>Your message was not delivered because the DNS records for the
>destination computer could not be found.  Carefully check that
>the address was spelled correctly, and try sending it again if  
>there were any mistakes.
>
>It is also possible that a network problem caused this situation,
>so if you are sure the address is correct you might want to try to
>send it again.  If the problem continues, contact your friendly
>system administrator.
>
>     Host joyce.eng.yale.eduop not found
>
>The following recipients did not receive this message:
>
>     <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
>
>Please reply to Postmaster@star1.intellistar.net
>if you feel this message to be in error.
>Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.165]) by star1.intellistar.net
>          (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a  ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0)
>          with SMTP id AAF29927 for <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>;
>          Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:23:37 -0400
>Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980920182409.39d700ae@intellistar.net>
>X-Sender: rigdonj@intellistar.net
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16)
>Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:24:09
>To: Tony Dellett <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
>From: Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net>
>Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard 9835B
>In-Reply-To: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Tony,
>
>



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 17:40:46 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <19980920221510.28352.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920173949.22637C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 20 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> Tony Duell wrote:
> > As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running 
> > Windows on an 8088
> 
> Are you certain?  I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs?

Even Windows 3.0 could run on an 8088.  It wasn't until 3.1 that they
dropped real-mode support.

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sun Sep 20 17:53:36 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920173949.22637C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3605876F.E53A784B@bbtel.com>

It doesn't look to see what processor you're running then? I've never
thought to try it on an XT with a bunch of EMS/XMS memory. Thanks for
creating yet another tinkering project that I'll be dying to get at.

Doug Yowza wrote:

> On 20 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:
>
> > Tony Duell wrote:
> > > As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running
> > > Windows on an 8088
> >
> > Are you certain?  I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs?
>
> Even Windows 3.0 could run on an 8088.  It wasn't until 3.1 that they
> dropped real-mode support.
>
> -- Doug



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 17:54:04 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920222311.28401.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920175049.22637D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 20 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> Wow, I didn't realize that Linux ran on any classic computers.  (Although
> there were some people working on a VAX port.)  What kind of classic
> computer are you running it on?

On this list, "classic" means 10 years old or older, for the most part. 
The 386 already qualifies.  However, there is a project (stalled?) to get
Linux running on some older 8-bitters: 
	http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sun Sep 20 17:58:01 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Micro jumper blocks
Message-ID: <36058878.7949CFB2@bbtel.com>

Wasn't it Manney that was looking for micro (not mini) jumper blocks for
a HD a while back? He never got back with me on that or the IEE488 card
and I haven't seen any posts from him of late. I have some if he wnats
them, just drop me a note by reg. email.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 18:05:34 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <3605876F.E53A784B@bbtel.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920180151.22637F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> It doesn't look to see what processor you're running then? I've never
> thought to try it on an XT with a bunch of EMS/XMS memory. Thanks for
> creating yet another tinkering project that I'll be dying to get at.

You'll be sorry.  There is a reason they dropped real-mode support, you
know.  In any case, it will try to detect the CPU and use the run-time for
that CPU, but there is a way to force it to run as if it were on a
lower-class CPU.

I'm not positive, and I don't have an easy way to check, but I think it
is:
	win/s	-- standard (i.e., 286) mode
	win/r	-- real mode

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sun Sep 20 18:17:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920180151.22637F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <36058CF8.F62B44BD@bbtel.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> > It doesn't look to see what processor you're running then? I've never
> > thought to try it on an XT with a bunch of EMS/XMS memory. Thanks for
> > creating yet another tinkering project that I'll be dying to get at.
>
> You'll be sorry.  There is a reason they dropped real-mode support, you
> know.  In any case, it will try to detect the CPU and use the run-time for
> that CPU, but there is a way to force it to run as if it were on a
> lower-class CPU.
>
> I'm not positive, and I don't have an easy way to check, but I think it
> is:
>         win/s   -- standard (i.e., 286) mode
>         win/r   -- real mode

It's only experimental to see what it does anyway, so if it runs like crap I
don't care. Just never thought it would run on a PC/XT platform. You're right
on the switches though, and /3 is enhanced mode on 386's and up.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 20 18:59:14 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809202359.AA00370@world.std.com>


< Tony Duell wrote:
< > As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running 
< > Windows on an 8088
< 
< Are you certain?  I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs?
< 
< Not that anyone in their right mind would have wanted to run Windows 1.0
< but that's an entirely different issue.

I have a copy of win3.0 that runs just fine (ok slow) on 8088s.

Allison





From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu  Sun Sep 20 19:15:44 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: To Tony Dellett
References: <3.0.1.16.19980920184047.39df70b6@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <36059AB0.38F85F65@joyce.eng.yale.edu>

Joe wrote:
> 
> Tony,
> 
>   Send me your REAL address and I'll send the info that I promised.
> 
>   Joe
> 
> At 06:23 PM 9/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
> >
> >Your message was not delivered because the DNS records for the
> >destination computer could not be found.  Carefully check that
> >the address was spelled correctly, and try sending it again if
> >there were any mistakes.
> >
> >It is also possible that a network problem caused this situation,
> >so if you are sure the address is correct you might want to try to
> >send it again.  If the problem continues, contact your friendly
> >system administrator.
> >
> >     Host joyce.eng.yale.eduop not found
> >
> >The following recipients did not receive this message:
> >
> >     <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
> >
> >Please reply to Postmaster@star1.intellistar.net
> >if you feel this message to be in error.
> >Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.165]) by star1.intellistar.net
> >          (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a  ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0)
> >          with SMTP id AAF29927 for <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>;
> >          Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:23:37 -0400
> >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980920182409.39d700ae@intellistar.net>
> >X-Sender: rigdonj@intellistar.net
> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16)
> >Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:24:09
> >To: Tony Dellett <apulo@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
> >From: Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net>
> >Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard 9835B
> >In-Reply-To: <36053879.A58B1548@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >Tony,
> >
> >


Hmm... apulo@joyce.eng.yale.edu


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 19:29:37 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920175049.22637D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:54:04 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920175049.22637D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980921002937.29220.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote:
> On this list, "classic" means 10 years old or older, for the most part. 
> The 386 already qualifies.

Ugh!  I guess I'm a bigot, but I'm personally unwilling to consider any x86
that runs a Microsoft OS to be a classic.  You can't polish a turd.

If age is the only criterion for establishing "classicness", this list 
might as well be called the old computers list to reduce the number of
characters we have to type.


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Sun Sep 20 19:42:43 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980921002937.29220.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 21, 98 00:29:37 am
Message-ID: <199809210042.SAA26206@calico.litterbox.com>

Unfortunately the 808x machines that run dos are more like the classic micros
than modern machines.  I'm not willing to be biased against them.  After all
my Amstrad ppc640 portable(haha) is technically a classic.  Don't like
microsoft OS?  Okay, I'll load DRDOS on it.  (it's even free)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 19:37:59 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980921002937.29220.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 21, 98 00:29:37 am
Message-ID: <m0zKtzT-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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Size: 897 bytes
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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Sun Sep 20 20:02:50 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <m0zKtzT-000IyMC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Sep 21, 98 01:37:59 am
Message-ID: <199809210102.TAA26342@calico.litterbox.com>

I fully agree that PCs are poorly designed and that their operating systems
are sub-par.  But I know some people LOVE them.  I use them because they
do what I need.  I bought my ppc 640 because I NEEDED a portable with a full
sized keyboard for my fat fingers.

Hell, even my apples have a job.  The GS is to help me support my father's 
GS, and the 2e is for a project I have in mind and I don't want to fry my GS
by building a bus card that doesn't work right.  If I fry the E, I'm only
out 40 bucks.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 20 21:03:13 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
In-Reply-To: <m0zKtzT-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zKtzT-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980921020313.29511.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> I seem to remember that the charter for this list states that the only 
> criterion for a machine to be classic is that it is over 10 years old. 
> And that PCs over 10 years old are on-topic here.

You're right!  I should have paid more attention to the NAQ list.
I guess there's simply no refuge from x86 PCs; they invade every newsgroup
and mailing list.  Not to mention surplus stores; it's getting very hard
to find anything interesting because the places are completely overrun
with PC crap.  As if anyone really wants huge piles of off-brand EGA cards
(or any EGA cards), ARCnet cards, etc.  Sigh.

The only halfway interesting PC-based hardware I've ever found surplus are
the XT/370 and AT/370 board sets, and I've never gotten the software for
them.  If anyone wants them, though, I think Timeline is still advertising
them.  Be forewarned, however, that they are mapped to the 512K-640K
memory address range, so they won't work unless you have a motherboard that
can be configured to NOT provide memory in that range.

These boards contained three processors, a custom-microcoded 68000 variant
to implement the core 370 instruction set, a standard 68000 to implement
the instructions that wouldn't fit in the microcode of the first one, and
a custom version of the 8087 hacked to do IBM radix-16 floating point
instead of IEEE.

Too bad no technical docs were ever available, it would be fun to port
Linux to them.


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 22:45:16 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?
Message-ID: <v04011704b22b79e8231b@[207.220.32.173]>

I got a bunch of Q-Bus and Unibus boards today, most of which are DEC, and
most of which I was able to identify.  One really caught my eye that I
can't identify however.

It's a Quad-Height board with a 50-pin connector on it  There is one chip
with a Model number on it "UTS25".  The board looks to be manufactured by
either MTI or MT, not sure which.  The one EPROM says "MTI-U/B A3.4".  It
has a Z80B CPU from SGS, and a Zilog Z0853606PSC chip.  However the chip
that really caught my eye was a WD33C93-PL.  Could this be a fabled SCSI
controller?  The WD chip is the same as an Amiga 3000's SCSI controller.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 20 21:58:37 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b22b79e8231b@[207.220.32.173]>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980920195945.kyrrin@jps.net>

On 21-Sep-98 Zane H. Healy wrote:

>that really caught my eye was a WD33C93-PL.  Could this be a fabled
>SCSI controller?  The WD chip is the same as an Amiga 3000's SCSI
>controller.

        Sure is. Sounds to me like you got lucky! That's WD's SCSI
chip, and it can be either a single-ended or differential interface
depending on the line drivers used.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 20-Sep-98 at 19:58:43, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From nerdware at laidbak.com  Sun Sep 20 22:21:03 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: new interesting addition
In-Reply-To: <199809181307.AA07643@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809210318.WAA02571@garcon.laidbak.com>

Allison,

I read your reply with great interest. Apparently, I've misunderstood some 
things.

I'm relatively new to the list, so if this has come up before, I apologize. I've 
noticed several of your postings refer to your days with Tandy and some other 
companies -- just out of curiosity, what is your brief career resume? It seems 
that a lot of you 'regulars' have backgrounds that run really deep into the roots 
of the industry.

Thanks.





Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 22:19:53 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809202059.A8483-0100000@netcom15>



   Well, sorta..   I have found a wonderful EDSAC simulator that 
runs on Windows or Mac. It presents you with the 'front panel' of 
the machine..  a CRT that 'looks' at the various memory delay tanks, 
other register displays, and some control buttons. One 'punches' 
programs into files, which are then presented to the sim and away it 
goes.  Even (corny) sound effects. It emulates the machine as it 
existed in the 1949 - 50 time range.

  It is a 1.873 Mb file that explodes into the program and demo 
files, as well as two .pdf docs explaining everything.

  
It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac


  I have been playing with it on and off all day today.

Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a box running 
this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it 
was like back in the Old Days. 

 Certainly on topic, I guess...   ;}

  Cheers

John




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 20 22:59:42 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920205912.27909E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> I'm having a little problem with Linux. I deleted the /dev/printer
> socket, and don't know how to get it back. I really don't feel like
> swapping floppies for three hours again, either. Anyone got ideas?

Yeah, try looking for assistance on one of the bazillion Linux newsgroups.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 20 23:08:06 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Windows 3.0 on 8088?
Message-ID: <199809210408.AA28017@world.std.com>

< That means I could run it on my IBM PC Convertible.  Is this true?
< 
< 					Megan

Yes it would.  You do need a hard disk as the install kit is some 5 disks. 
plus dos.

Allison



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 20 23:38:16 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809202059.A8483-0100000@netcom15>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920233027.31144F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

> It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac

s/ocs/dcs

> Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a box running 
> this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it 
> was like back in the Old Days. 

Simulators are the single best way to preserve classic machines for
future generations.  Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
themselves obsolete, you've got a problem.  So, IMHO, all simulators
should be written in Java so that there's a good chance they'll run on
future machines.

-- Doug



From william at ans.net  Sun Sep 20 23:57:28 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: IBM 5103 Printer
In-Reply-To: <360540F7.E32D5F09@rain.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921005543.3951C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I fired up my IBM 5100 getting it ready for the VCF 2.0, and found the
> inking or feed rolls on the 5103 printer, shall we say, disintegrating.  I
> did a brief check on the web and didn't find anything available.  Anyone
> know if these rolls might even be available?  I did find the ribbons but
> they won't do me much good if the printer won't feed them :).

I have a bunch of the things somewhere - but I do not know if they are
good.

If anyone else wants some, speak up!

I also have an extra tractor feed attachment, if you need that bit.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net




From mbg at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 00:06:38 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: Windows 3.0 on 8088?
Message-ID: <199809210506.AA03360@world.std.com>

Oh, that is a problem... the system does not have a hard
disk...  so much for that idea...

					Megan


From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Mon Sep 21 00:10:02 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809202059.A8483-0100000@netcom15>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809202059.A8483-0100000@netcom15>
Message-ID: <3608df2a.125386336@insight>

>  
>It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac
>
Actually, I think that should be:

www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac

It does look cool, though.  I'm downloading a copy as we (errrr...)
speak.



                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                              microcomputer simulator!)
                            


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 00:14:33 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809202059.A8483-0100000@netcom15>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920221259.27909G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

> Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a box running 
> this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it 
> was like back in the Old Days. 

Hey, thanks for the idea.  I think its a good one.  I'll expand on it by
loading all the simulators I can find on a PC, then creating a bunch of
icons so that attendees can launch their favorite and then play around
with it until they get bored.

Providing I havet he time that is :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From william at ans.net  Mon Sep 21 00:16:18 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920222311.28401.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921005951.3951D-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Anybody know where I can get an IBM 360/30?

No. And I would _seriously_ drive across the country to get any S/360 or
370. Maybe even for an S/3 or S/7.

>  It would be fun to port Linux
> to that, although the lack of paging would be a bit of a problem.  One of
> the cool things about the 360/30 is that you can alter the microcode using
> a standard keypuch machine.

A real problem, I would say. The Model 30s were just about the runts of
the family, and could only have 8 to 64 K of storage.

I would think that putting Linux on an S/370 would be just a bit easier,
but still cool enough to matter (circa 1974!). But I think there are less
S/370s out there than S/360s (I know of _one_ S/370, and it belongs to
IBM. S/360s, at least, number more than 10, probably).

And by S/370, I mean _real_ S/370, with the cool panels. Not the beige
boxes IBM made in late 1970s, dropping the S/370 name.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 00:18:33 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920233027.31144F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920221505.27909H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Simulators are the single best way to preserve classic machines for
> future generations.  Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
> themselves obsolete, you've got a problem.  So, IMHO, all simulators
> should be written in Java so that there's a good chance they'll run on
> future machines.

This in itself is a pretty big assumption.

The most absolute way to ensure old machine simulators live on is by
developing a human-understable pseudo-programming language that's based on
logic flow diagrams, then converting all the simulators into this
language, then getting it standardized, then fending off all the microsoft
"improvements", then suing them for corrupting the language...

Or just write them in BASIC.  Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.

BASIC RULES!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From william at ans.net  Mon Sep 21 00:23:44 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920221505.27909H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> The most absolute way to ensure old machine simulators live on is by
> developing a human-understable pseudo-programming language that's based on
> logic flow diagrams, then converting all the simulators into this
> language, then getting it standardized, then fending off all the microsoft
> "improvements", then suing them for corrupting the language...
> 
> Or just write them in BASIC.  Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
> efforts, its not going away.

I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
portable.
 
> BASIC RULES!

What are the BASIC rules?

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 00:29:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920222858.27909I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> > Or just write them in BASIC.  Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
> > efforts, its not going away.
> 
> I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
> and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
> portable.

I vote for ANSI Logo, and if ANSI has not formalized a standard for Logo,
then ANSI PILOT.

> > BASIC RULES!
> 
> What are the BASIC rules?

Use as many GOTOs as it takes to confuse the hell out of the next guy.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Mon Sep 21 00:30:26 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: OOOpps, sorry!
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809202259.A20286-0100000@netcom2>


  Yup.  Can't read my own scrawly handwriting.

  EDSAC Simulator: www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac

Possible Bart Simpson blackboard punishment writing:

I will not post screwed-up URLs
I will not post screwed-up URLs
I will not post screwed-up URLs
I will not.......

Again... my apologies to those who got treated to error messages 
when all they wanted was some antique Fun.


   Sheeeshhhh!!


John





From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Mon Sep 21 00:30:56 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:45 2005
Subject: wierd stuff/spam
Message-ID: <199809210530.XAA28386@calico.litterbox.com>

Gang, some jerk is trying to use my site as a spam relay.  If you get 
ANYTHING coming from litterbox.com that looks like a sex add please
let me know and accept my humble apology.  We've found where the attack
is coming from and have sent e-mail to their hostmaster.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 21 00:36:12 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <199809202227.QAA25374@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3605E5CC.51E89636@cnct.com>

Jim wrote:
> 
> Anything up to windows 3.0 will run on an xt, given enough memory and disk
> space.  (win 3.0 will run in real mode).  I used to follow the HP200lx
> mailing lists and people actually got win 3.0 to run on the hp200lx, which
> is an xt class machine with cga.
> 
> In theory win95 will run in safe mode on one, but I haven't ever tried it,
> and safe mode isn't very useful anyway.  Safe mode is apparently very similar
> to win 3.0/3.1's real mode.

Considering the 4-6 hours it takes for Win-95 to boot on a 386-16 with
8 Mb RAM, the week it would take with an '88 is probably not worth the
wait.  Win-95 safe mode isn't even as useful for fixing problems as
Win 3.x real mode anyway -- Win 3.x you could edit the .ini files,
Win-95 registry crap even with "good" tools it's a crapshoot whether or
not anything can be fixed unless you approach the job like a veterinarian
with a tomcat instead of a mechanic with a Ford.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From donm at cts.com  Mon Sep 21 00:34:07 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b22b79e8231b@[207.220.32.173]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980920223318.7294F-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I got a bunch of Q-Bus and Unibus boards today, most of which are DEC, and
> most of which I was able to identify.  One really caught my eye that I
> can't identify however.
> 
> It's a Quad-Height board with a 50-pin connector on it  There is one chip
> with a Model number on it "UTS25".  The board looks to be manufactured by
> either MTI or MT, not sure which.  The one EPROM says "MTI-U/B A3.4".  It
> has a Z80B CPU from SGS, and a Zilog Z0853606PSC chip.  However the chip
> that really caught my eye was a WD33C93-PL.  Could this be a fabled SCSI
> controller?  The WD chip is the same as an Amiga 3000's SCSI controller.

And is also incorporated in their old WD7000-ASC SCSI cards.

						 - don
 
> 			Zane
> | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
> | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
> | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
> |                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
> |               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |
> 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
    visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm




From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 00:55:54 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921004328.12031B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

> > Or just write them in BASIC.  Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
> > efforts, its not going away.
> 
> I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
> and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
> portable.

May a standards group visit both your houses! (Ancient Swiss curse.) 

Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
executable environment.  The Java machine is very well documented, and the
environment has goodies like a GUI and networking defined as well. 
Neither BASIC nor C nor anything else today has those things going for it. 

Most of the simulators written today are being distributed as Win95
executables.  Forty years from now, if your kids are faced with writing a
Win95 emulator before they can run the Edsac emulator, they will lose
interest in the Edsac before you can say "convoluted API".

-- Doug



From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 21 00:59:28 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920175049.22637D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <19980921002937.29220.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3605EB40.1ED77EAE@cnct.com>

Eric Smith wrote:
> 
> Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote:
> > On this list, "classic" means 10 years old or older, for the most part.
> > The 386 already qualifies.
> 
> Ugh!  I guess I'm a bigot, but I'm personally unwilling to consider any x86
> that runs a Microsoft OS to be a classic.  You can't polish a turd.
> 
> If age is the only criterion for establishing "classicness", this list
> might as well be called the old computers list to reduce the number of
> characters we have to type.

I guess it's time for the FAQ to be reposted.  (Sam?)  Linux is
less than ten years old itself -- it runs on computers somewhat
older -- most of those computers will also run Microsoft
operating systems.  The original TRS-80 ran a Microsoft operating
system (Level 2 BASIC in ROM).  As did the Model 100.  While the
Model 100 had an 8085, the Model 1 had a Z-80.

You say you don't consider an '86 box that runs an MS OS to be a
classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.

You're new here -- it's known that I am no fan of Intel or MS, but I
try to let the credit lay where it will -- I came to Unix before I
ever used MS-DOS because my employer (Radio Shack) licensed Xenix
from Microsoft who had failed to make it an end-user product.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 21 00:58:46 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: VIC multi-cartridge board
In-Reply-To: <v04011702b223851ef74e@[207.220.32.235]>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980921014134.25240A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >The reason I say I don't know how to use the multi-cartridge adapter is
> >that it has a bunch of dip switches, and I've got no manual to tell me
> >what they do.  I have managed to plug in my 16K RAM Expander and various
> >other carts at the same time, and had it come up with the 16K visible, but
> >then I don't know the proper entry point for the software (though I've
> >been able to scan through memory and see QBF there).
> >
> >My adapter board says "Cardboard" on it, and it has space for six
> >cartridges.  And it has a reset button. :)
> 
> The one I had the rotary switch, which I gather you don't have, it was to
> select the slot, you then pressed the reset button, and that rebooted with
> that cartridge.  IIRC it also had the DIP switches, these were used to copy
> the cartridges to cassette tape or floppy, and back to a memory cartridge.

On mine (I pulled it out and played with the multimeter) the switches
control whether or not to activate certain address lines for each slot.

There is one block of six switches, and another block of seven switches.

The block of six switches controls whether or not a cartridge slot is
connected to the BLK3 address line ($6000-$7FFF).  One switch per slot.

The block of seven uses the first six switches for the same purpose, but
with BLK5 ($A000-$BFFF).  The remaining switch activates/deactivates the
BLK1 line ($2000-$3FFF) on all six slots.

I think. :)  I may have got it reversed (side to side) so that the first
block of switches controls BLK2 ($4000-$5FFF), the second block of
switches controls BLK1 ($2000-$3FFF), and the remaining switch activates
BLK5 ($A000-$BFFF) on all slots.  I'll have to check again.

$A000 seems to be where auto-starting ROMs live, though, so it would
probably be better if they were selected individually.

Yours is simpler to use, and the rotary switch wouldn't allow conflicts
the way this board does.

> 				Zane
> | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
> | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
> | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
> |                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
> |               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 01:00:24 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921004328.12031B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920230003.27909K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Most of the simulators written today are being distributed as Win95
> executables.  Forty years from now, if your kids are faced with writing a
> Win95 emulator before they can run the Edsac emulator, they will lose
> interest in the Edsac before you can say "convoluted API".

Don't you mean "grand-kids" old timer?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 01:06:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <3605EB40.1ED77EAE@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920230436.27909L-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> I guess it's time for the FAQ to be reposted.  (Sam?)  Linux is

What the heck, its been a while.

We also should do another round of updates.  There's been a lot of good
information posted in the past few months.  It'd be nice to get a FAQ
maintainer (hint hint).

=============================================================================
 DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ.  THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW
  YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE.  IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE
        THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF
=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.3
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp.  It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill@booster.u.washington.edu>.  The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein.  I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).

This FAQ is Part 1 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy.  The information presented
deals with the use of mailing lists and internet-specific tools.

If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.

A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell
washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart1.faq.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Mailing Lists
----------------
1.1 Mailing List Basics
1.2 How to Talk to the Robot
       How to set to Digest
       How to Subscribe
       How to Unsubscribe

2. FTP
------
2.1  FTP Basics

3. World Wide Web
-----------------
3.1 WWW Basics

=============================================================================
1.1 Mailing List Basics

A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it
to a group of people.  People can add and remove themselves from the
distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing.  When you send a message
to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it
to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc).
If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution
list.

1.2 How to Talk to the Robot

There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use.  To
send a command to the list processor, write a message to
  listproc@u.washington.edu
(Do NOT send the message to classiccmp@u.washington.edu).  In the body of
the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following
commands, then send the message.

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK

        Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you
        write to the list.  This is the default.

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK

        Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages
        you write to the list.  I don't recommend this.

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST

        Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages
        rather than each as it is posted.  With this option
        you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep
        a nice, tidy in-box.

SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address

        Subscribes you to the list.

UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address

        Removes you from the list.

[][][][][][][][][][]

2.1 FTP Basics

FTP is a protocol by which files can be transferred over the internet.
You can use FTP to connect to a remote site and retrieve files.  The
commands you use with FTP depend on the software you use.  In general
you must make sure that you are in BINARY mode before transferring a
program file or compressed files.  The process of downloading a file
is usually termed GET and the process of uploading a file is usually
termed PUT.

Your FTP program will require an address to connect to.  For the
ClassicCmp site that address is 140.142.225.188.

You then may be asked to log in (unless your program assumes an
anonymous login).  When asked for a name, use anonymous.  When asked
for a password enter your internet e-mail address.

[][][][][][][][][][]

3.1 WWW Basics

The only complicated thing with the WWW is knowing what bells
and whistles your web browser supports.  You don't really need to
know much other than the address for ClassicCmp.  The web site is
all text which means just about any web browser from the oldest
Lynx to the newest Netscape or Microsoft browser should support it.

The ClassicCmp site is http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp.
=============================================================================



=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.3
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp.  It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill@booster.u.washington.edu>.  The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein.  I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).

This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy.  The information presented
deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list.

If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.

A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell
washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart2.faq.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Added: section 1.8
         Changed: section 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 3.1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. About the List
-----------------
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
1.3 What's a Classic Computer?
1.4 Who runs this thing?
1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?
1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done?
1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?
1.8 How long has this list been around?

2. Protocol and Etiquette
-------------------------
2.1 What can I talk about?
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames?
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers?
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x?
2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question?
2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!?
2.9 Can I post trophy lists?
2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts?

3. Misc List Information
------------------------
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
3.3 Is this list archived?

4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net
----------------------------------
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site?
4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly?
4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site?

Collecting
----------
5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers?
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
5.4 I don't understand anything.  Help!
=============================================================================
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?

It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers.  Topics center
on collection, restoration, and operation.  It is also an appropriate place
for stories and reminiscences of classic computers.  Lofty discussions
dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are
often better handled in private e-mail ;)

1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?

Uh, why not?  There are lots of people who love these old machines and it
seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.

1.3 What is a Classic Computer?

_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary.  It seems to
work OK, so I've kept it.

This definition has come under fire recently but remains the guideline.
Remember that it is certainly flexible.  The idea is to keep conversation
on track, not to restrict what you can talk about.

1.4 Who runs this thing?

That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu.

1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?

Sorry.  It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond
to e-mail.  I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still
probably busy doing real work.  I receive more than double the amount of
mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd
user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the
messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;).  I will get
back to you eventually.

As an update, I've been _really_ hard to reach for the last couple months.
Hopefully, this has now changed.  Please keep in mind that this list is
recreation for me, and I sometimes cannot devote any time to it.  This
does not indicate a lack of interest in the people or activities
involved.

1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.

I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week.  If you show
me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large
as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find.  Obviously
there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see
a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing
anyway.

1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?

The daily load varies widely from about 20 messages to over 100.  Average
seems to be about (I haven't checked lately, will update) messages a day.
There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week.

1.8 How long has this list been around?

The first message went out March 13, 1997.

[][][][][][][][][]

2.1 What can I talk about?

Anything related to classic computers as defined above.  There are many
people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might
want to check facts before you start shooting off messages.  It's also a
good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before
posting.

2.2 Can I talk about PCs?

Yes.  PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years.  Even then, be
aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC
newsgroups.

2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes
    with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations?

There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for
micros/home computers only.  You'll note I said "misconception".

2.4 Can I post advertisements?

Sure.  As long as they're related to _classic_ computers.  And, of course,
use your brain - don't spam.  Also, please state up-front whether or not
you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there
are members of this list in a number of different countries.

If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way
in the subject line.

2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?

Sure.  But you're not likely to get a very nice response.  Mine, for example,
would be: Get your own f***ing computer!  There are several people on
usenet who will vouch for this.  When someone posts about one of their
machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that
they're not secretly trolling for offers.  See section 5 for info on how to
find yourself a computer.

2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.

Yes.  Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't
have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic
electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc).  I'm no whiz
with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking
questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check
the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking
out!" exactly means.

2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?

It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive
section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).

2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?!
    (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?)

Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please.  For that matter, drop
any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars.

2.9 Can I post trophy lists?

Some people like to read other peoples' trophy lists, some do not.  There
have been times when most people have been interested in these and times
when many wanted to see them banned.  So, they remain - appreciated or
tolerated and somewhat controversial.  Can't make everyone happy all the
time ;)

2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts?

Yes.  Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not.  A number of
people have complained about this.  I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now
that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice.

[][][][][][][][][][]

3.1 How many subscribers are there?

Around 210 and changing daily.

3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?

Check the web site (see below).  The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows
the number of machines registered by subscribers.

3.3 Is this list archived?

Yes.  The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/archive.  The file name format indicates
the month/year of the archive.  Keep in mind that they are quite large.

[][][][][][][][][][]

4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site?

Yep.  http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp

4.2 How come the web site is so ugly?

How come a PET is so ugly?  Who cares as long as it works?

4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site?

Yes.  Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188.  Look in /pub/classiccmp.  There's
not much there that's not available on the web site.  I'm starting to
load old drivers and system disks on occasion.  There is an incoming
directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers
if needed.

[][][][][][][][][][]

5.1 Where can I find classic computers?

The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets.  These are
closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores.
The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary
of individual pick-and-choosers.  Oh yeah - garage sales!

5.2 How much is machine x worth?

Precisely as much as you'll pay for it.  Oh, you're selling it?  Then,
precisely as much as I'll pay for it.  Seriously, no one prices these any
more.  I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic
computers but the prices are just ridiculous.  Some machines (Apple
Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down
the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that
most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components.

5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?

Yes.  This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless
effort.  Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly
hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos).
The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you
probably think I'm joking).  Save a computer!  Act now!  Remind your
SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals.  It might work.

In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called
"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and
recycle them into "reusable scrap".  Small amounts of gold, silver, and
platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally
just marketed to less wasteful countries.

5.4 I don't understand anything.  Help!

Don't worry - you're not the only one.  Reading this list, old magazines,
books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step.
Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier.
=============================================================================



=============================================================================
ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2
Last Update: 12/10/97
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp.  It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill@booster.u.washington.edu>.  The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein.  I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).

This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy.  The information presented
deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature.

If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.

A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell
washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart3.faq.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. General
------------------
1.1 I just picked up a new machine.  What should I do?
1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?

2. Media
--------
2.1 What's a hard sector disk?  What's a soft sector disk?
2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.
2.3 Can these formats be interchanged?
2.4 What disk sizes are there?
2.5 How do I take care of old media?

3. Component Failure Issues
---------------------------
3.1 Do EPROM's go bad?
3.2 How about ROM's, other chips?
3.3 How about capacitors?
3.4 Anything else?
3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest?

4. Software
-----------
4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X?
4.2 What's the best way to back up my software?

5. Specific Problems/Solutions
------------------------------
5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output?
=============================================================================
1.1 I just picked up a new machine.  What should I do?

Don't power it up yet!  All of the following should probably be done
before that power switch gets flipped.

Open the case - clean and visually inspect components.  You're
looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown
caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc.  It
may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and
connectors.  If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to
replace it before powering up the unit.  You can avoid a number of
problems just by taking a peek inside.

If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and
dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs.  If you have really cool
tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them
to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom
chips.  Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of
a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate
tools.

Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it
up on a "dummy load".  A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as
a convenient load.  These should be available from any decent Volkswagen
shop.  Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to
it.  You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it
could be no where near the 5V average in micros.  Even if you don't want
to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up
separately from the computer for the first time.  If you have a really
rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of
circuit just to get them warmed up.

Now you can power it up.  Assuming it works, take a blank disk,
format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your
precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your
day.

1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes?

Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment.  Try
soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing.  This takes
care of most jobs.  For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone
(available at most hardware stores - in the US at least).  If those
don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm.
For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc)
but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully
applied.  Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off
textured plastic.  For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product
called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US
at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly.

Recommended commercial products:

Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration]
Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic)
Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings]
Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted)
Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker]
Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable)
3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge]
CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge]
Fulcron [for discoloration]
Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge]

Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good
for removing corrosion.  Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a
different texture - which may be damaging.  Make sure to wipe the
connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them.  There are a large
number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from
components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to
promote any of them.  For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some
softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders.

Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays.

Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice
job on keyboards.  Just be sure they're completely dry before you
put any power to them.  If there is reason not to use a dishwasher
(some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each
keycap and clean conventionally.

[][][][][][][][][][]

2.1 What's a hard sectored disk?  What's a soft sectored disk?

We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain.  On a
soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector
begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the
formatting process).  This means that various computers can use
the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control-
led by the operating system.

Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark
the beginnings and ends of sectors.  This means that computers
which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they
specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy.  A number of
differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16
sector formats.  8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard
sectoring.  3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact,
it would not be possible.

2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc.

These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's
density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together).
SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available
type I believe.  The storage afforded by a single density disk was
very small compared to today's standards.  Single Sided disks were
popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily
modified with a hole punch into double sided disks.  SD was followed
by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage
space.  Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived
Quad Density which doubled a DD disk.  QD was short lived because
High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity
again.  DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became.  3.5"
disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high
density.

2.3 Can these formats be interchanged?

Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general
the following substitutions may be made:

Desired Format                  Substitute
---------------------------------------------------
Single Density                  Double Density
Double Density                  none reliably
Quad Density                    DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!)
High Density                    none

Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in
how the disks are made they are generally unreliable.  It can almost
be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality
will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong
density.  In the case of quad density no substitution should be
considered reliable.  DD and HD disks both can be forced to work.  One
may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives.

2.4 What disk sizes are there?  Disk Types?

Physically?

Standard Disks          Unique/Proprietary Disks
---------------------------------------------------------
8" (Floppy)             5" (MiniFloppy)
5.25" (MiniFloppy)      3.25" (MicroFloppy)
3.5" (MicroFloppy)      3" (MicroFloppy)
                        2.5"
                        2"

In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which
was physically different.  "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were
regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write
windows.  One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south".

2.5 How do I take care of old media?

Step one is Back It Up!  After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry,
temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer).
With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than
lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes.  I like to exercise disks
and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real
evidence that this has any positive effect.  I have modified an old C64
floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large
stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're
not starting to stick up internally.

An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of
classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media
on PC's and Macs.  This seems to be a very good way to backup
disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take
care of them.

The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of
approximately 10 years.  With proper care many are lasting a lot longer.

[][][][][][][][][][]

3.1 Do EPROM's go bad?

Definitely.  They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for
(on the outside edge) 15 years.  This amount can be considerably
reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and
fallen off.  Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're
out there.  An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment
and an easy fix.  Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still
fine for being "re-educated".

3.2 How about ROMs and other chips?

Things wear out.  It's likely that even components which have not been
fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday.  ROMs can
be dumped to a file and re-written if they die.  Other custom chips which
are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace.  The
best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even
unused chips will probably start to turn up bad.  In this case the best
defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify
an existing component to meet your needs.

3.3 How about capacitors?

This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an
unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable
components with it when it goes.  It's a good idea to check out all the
caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while.  Caps go bad
with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more
reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect.  It's unlikely that
it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much
more standard electronic components.

3.4 Anything else?

Documentation:  If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its
the docs for uncommon equipment.  Once they're gone, they're gone.
I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because
I may someday.  Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be
obvious and they will be easily duplicated.

Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going
to go bad.  Then they'll be gone.  Theoretically, I suppose it's possible
to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate,
etc...  but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base-
ment.  Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this.

3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest?

This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more.  The best ways
seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp-
riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows).


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Mon Sep 21 01:16:19 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921004328.12031B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 21, 98 00:55:54 am
Message-ID: <199809210616.AAA28869@calico.litterbox.com>

At the risk of starting a flame war, yes Java is universal.  It works 
universally badly on every machine I've seen.  The days of a lingua 
franca for computers are not yet here, I think.  And with microsoft 
inventing their own extensions and protocols it's not likely to BE upon
us any time soon.

[-snip-]
lengthy rant about microsoft and spammers and so forth deleted.
[-snip-]
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From red at bears.org  Mon Sep 21 01:19:27 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <3605EB40.1ED77EAE@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809210214370.3454-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.

Convergent N-GEN computers (Burroughs B25, etc). Available in 80186,
80286, and 80386 flavours, if not also 80486 or later.

ok
r.



From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 01:30:05 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809210616.AAA28869@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921012003.12031C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> At the risk of starting a flame war, yes Java is universal.  It works 
> universally badly on every machine I've seen.  The days of a lingua 
> franca for computers are not yet here, I think.  And with microsoft 
> inventing their own extensions and protocols it's not likely to BE upon
> us any time soon.

Don't confuse performance issues with the value of a well-documented
execution environment that was designed to be emulated!

It is in Microsoft's interest to "embrace and extend" any standard they
didn't invent, and that means that they will never offer a standard Java
and it probably means that Internet Explorer will intentionally choke on
standard Java, but that won't significantly detract from the long-term
benefit of having a standard Java.  If Java didn't exist, it would be our
duty as preservers-by-simulation to invent it.

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 01:32:16 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809210214370.3454-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921013042.12031D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> > classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> > MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.
> 
> Convergent N-GEN computers (Burroughs B25, etc). Available in 80186,
> 80286, and 80386 flavours, if not also 80486 or later.

Didn't we have this thread before?  OK, Intel iPSC/1 (I want my
hypercube!)

-- Doug



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 01:37:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809210214370.3454-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920233641.27909M-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> > classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> > MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.
> 
> Convergent N-GEN computers (Burroughs B25, etc). Available in 80186,
> 80286, and 80386 flavours, if not also 80486 or later.

Include in this list the Mindset and the various S-100 '86 boxen.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 01:42:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Need docs for Dynabyte 16K Static RAM (S-100)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920234138.27909N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Anyone have the docs for the Dynabyte 16K Static RAM handy?  I need to
know what each switch in the configuration blocks are for.  I might be
able to figure it out from the system I have set up but it'd be nice to
know exactly what they all do.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 21 02:05:29 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809210214370.3454-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <3605FAB9.915F9955@cnct.com>

R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> > classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> > MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.
> 
> Convergent N-GEN computers (Burroughs B25, etc). Available in 80186,
> 80286, and 80386 flavours, if not also 80486 or later.

Well, a fair number of those at the Convergent campuses in San Jose
were running MS-DOS when I worked there back in 90-91.  Possibly
not the best way to run the gear (is MS-DOS _ever_ the best way to
run the gear?) but functional.  Don't recall any '486 NGENs -- I
was working with the Unisys 6000 series mostly, didn't actually
_use_ any NGENs myself, but did use several old (left over from the
AT&T contract) Unix PCs as my consoles for the machines I was doing
software QA on.  The '486 was fairly new at the time, I'd been given
to understand that NGEN was a dead series then -- pretty machines
that they were.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 21 02:15:52 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921004328.12031B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3605FD28.9202EE8C@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> > > Or just write them in BASIC.  Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
> > > efforts, its not going away.
> >
> > I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
> > and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
> > portable.
> 
> May a standards group visit both your houses! (Ancient Swiss curse.)
> 
> Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
> executable environment.  The Java machine is very well documented, and the
> environment has goodies like a GUI and networking defined as well.
> Neither BASIC nor C nor anything else today has those things going for it.
> 
> Most of the simulators written today are being distributed as Win95
> executables.  Forty years from now, if your kids are faced with writing a
> Win95 emulator before they can run the Edsac emulator, they will lose
> interest in the Edsac before you can say "convoluted API".

I guess I spend too much time not dealing with what's distributed
_today_.  I've got a bunch of emulators, and most of them are MSDOS
executables.  (Some are for MAC and ST etc -- I do like variety).
I have yet to see a Win-95-specific TRS-80 or CoCo emulator.  (The Java
TRS-80 emulator I've seen needs a _LOT_ of work).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From eric at brouhaha.com  Mon Sep 21 03:20:27 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <3605EB40.1ED77EAE@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:59:28 -0400)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920175049.22637D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <19980921002937.29220.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3605EB40.1ED77EAE@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19980921082027.30833.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com> wrote:
> You say you don't consider an '86 box that runs an MS OS to be a
> classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> MS OS.

OK, the HP-94.  Also I have an S100 8088 box for which (to the best of my
knowledge) CPM/86 was the only available OS.  Not that I consider CPM/86 to
be that much better than 86/DOS, QDOS, or MS-DOS.

> And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.

It probably isn't, although it is certainly more obscure.  I don't care much
for old x86 machines even if they run non-MS operating systems.  The fact
is that the x86 architecture is evil.  I have nothing but the highest
regard for the Intel engineers that somehow managed to take the disgusting
8086 and 80286 architecture and make an almost respectable 32 bit
processor out if it (the 386).  However, that doesn't make me like the
x86 any more.

My point (for what little it's worth; I've already conceded that the charter
of this list explicitly covers all computers over 10 years old) was that
I don't consider any computer that instead of inspiring interest makes me
want to run away screaming should be considered a classic, notwithstanding
its popularity.

This is obviously only me own personal opinion, and I really didn't intend
to start a religious war.  I'm sure there are some demented people out there
that actually *like* the 8086.  And I'm sure that there are many people who
are happy to consider even disgusting machines classics; I just happen not
to be one of them.

Cheers,
Eric



From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 06:46:58 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <199809211146.AA01137@world.std.com>

> classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an
> MS OS.  And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT.

Many of the 8088/8086 and x86 powered s100 crate were not native MSdos.
Many of them were CPM or Turbodos.

Allison



From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Mon Sep 21 08:23:47 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920205912.27909E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 20, 98 08:59:42 pm
Message-ID: <199809211323.JAA19464@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
> On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> > I'm having a little problem with Linux. I deleted the /dev/printer
> > socket, and don't know how to get it back. I really don't feel like
> > swapping floppies for three hours again, either. Anyone got ideas?
> 
> Yeah, try looking for assistance on one of the bazillion Linux newsgroups.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com


actually, it's a really quick thing on FreeBSD and SunOS and I think
Linux (don't have it up here at the present time).

Just kill and restart lpd (the print spooler) and it'll remake it 
automatically.

Bill

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From Marty at itgonline.com  Mon Sep 21 08:37:32 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
Message-ID: <1998Sep21.093552.1767.140161@smtp.itgonline.com>

 
 I believe you can download the 80286 (AT) setup program from IBM's web 
 site. Last year I downloaded the POS setup diskette for the PS/2 60.
 
 Marty
 


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Help: IBM 5170
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/19/98 8:13 PM


 >
 > Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these
 > machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up: 
 > "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)"
 
 That normally means that something has changed since the CMOS RAM was 
 configured.
 
 > Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory
 > during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error.
 
 Which version of the system board do you have? The older one has 36 RAM 
 chips, each one being a 128K*1 device (actually made from 2 DIPs soldered 
 together). The later one has 18 256K*1 bit devices on it. I have 
 schematics, etc for both boards.
 
 The partiy error sounds like a RAM chip failing. Try reseating them, and 
 if it's the later version, try replacing the RAMs one at a time with 
 known-good ones. 256K*1 DRAMs are pretty easy to get, and the ones on the 
 system board are socketed.
 
 > Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software
 
 There are 2 switch-things on the system board (unless you count the 
 little 8-pin DIP postion behind the expansion slots that can be used to 
 fiddle with the ROM addressing).
 
 One is a slide switch next to the power connector. In one position the 
 board is set up for an MDA display. The other way for a CGA one. I can't 
 remember which is which, but if you get it wrong, all that happens is 
 that it fails the POST and beeps. Flip the switch and try again.
 
 The other is a jumper (J18) to the left of the speaker connector at the 
 front). This selects between 256K and 512K for RAM on the system board. 
 Check this is set the same way on both your boards.
 
 > program?
 
 Yes, SETUP is the program used to load the parameters into the CMOS RAM. 
 Unlike most modern PCs, this is not in ROM, but has to be loaded from 
 disk. There's a free clone (with source, I think) on Simtel somewhere. If 
 the parameters have got scrambled, then about the only thing it can boot 
 from is a 5.25" drive as A:
 
 -tony
 
 
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From kozmik at wave.home.com  Mon Sep 21 08:55:23 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920221505.27909H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <36065ACB1A6.4F37KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
William Donzelli <william@ans.net> wrote:

  
> > BASIC RULES!
> 
> What are the BASIC rules?

Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C
(ansi c)?

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Mon Sep 21 09:04:07 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Help: IBM 5170
References: <1998Sep21.093552.1767.140161@smtp.itgonline.com>
Message-ID: <36065CD6.43FFBDE@bbtel.com>

Marty wrote:

>  I believe you can download the 80286 (AT) setup program from IBM's web
>  site. Last year I downloaded the POS setup diskette for the PS/2 60.
>
>  Marty
>

All the ref disks for the 5170 throught he PS/1 line is on IBM's FTP at
ftp://204.146.167.81/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/or you can go to the PS2 Page at
http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ and there are links to all the info, ADF's and
reference/setup disks. For the 5170 the file needed is ATDG207.EXE to create a
bootable diagnostics/setup disk on low density 5.25" or 3.5" floppy.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From william at ans.net  Mon Sep 21 09:30:28 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921004328.12031B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921102420.13855B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> May a standards group visit both your houses! (Ancient Swiss curse.) 
> 
> Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
> executable environment.  The Java machine is very well documented, and the
> environment has goodies like a GUI and networking defined as well. 
> Neither BASIC nor C nor anything else today has those things going for it. 

C is well established, Java is not. People keep worrying about what the
different companies will do to extend or change Java. When Java gets to be
a truely standard, then I might say OK.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net





From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 21 09:33:50 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <980921103350.b0@trailing-edge.com>

Dominique Cormann wrote:
>William Donzelli <william@ans.net> wrote:  
>> > BASIC RULES!
>> 
>> What are the BASIC rules?
>Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C
>(ansi c)?

Yes, there are at least two ANSI standards, and one maybe-never-quite-
adopted ANSI working committee standard:

ANSI X3.60-1978, _American National Standard for the Programming Language
Minimal Basic_.  This is a *very* minimal basic, lacking things like
strings and files.

ANSI X3J2 working committee BASIC.  AFAIK this was never officially
adopted as an ANSI standard, despite the fact that the committee must've
worked on it for over a decade.  In _BYTE_ 1982:6 p182, you'll find
Thomas Kurtz (yes, *the* Kurtz of Dartmouth) describing the draft
standard as it then existed, and he actually sold a working version of
this called "True BASIC".  It does things in very different ways from
just about every other BASIC (the string syntax is entirely different,
looking more like Fortran-77 style character-addressable strings, and
the math is actually *decimal* math!)

ANSI X3.113-1987 "Full BASIC".  I believe this to be the standard that
the X3J2 committee eventually settled on.  Penware's NKR BASIC claims to be
an implementation of this standard, though I've never actually seen
it in use.

Bywater BASIC (by Ted Campbell, and often implemented on Unix-type
machines by the executable "bwbasic") claims to be a superset of X3.60-1978
and a subset of X3.113-1987.  It's available under the terms of the Gnu
Public License.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From cfandt at servtech.com  Mon Sep 21 09:38:26 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921005951.3951D-100000@titan.purch.ans.ne
 t>
References: <19980920222311.28401.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <199809211438.OAA21109@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 01:16 21-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Anybody know where I can get an IBM 360/30?
>
>No. And I would _seriously_ drive across the country to get any S/360 or
>370. Maybe even for an S/3 or S/7.

Can't agree more with you on that William!

>
>>  It would be fun to port Linux
>> to that, although the lack of paging would be a bit of a problem.  One of
>> the cool things about the 360/30 is that you can alter the microcode using
>> a standard keypuch machine.
>
>A real problem, I would say. The Model 30s were just about the runts of
>the family, and could only have 8 to 64 K of storage.
>
>I would think that putting Linux on an S/370 would be just a bit easier,
>but still cool enough to matter (circa 1974!). But I think there are less
>S/370s out there than S/360s (I know of _one_ S/370, and it belongs to
>IBM. S/360s, at least, number more than 10, probably).

Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage,
there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you though. 

>
>And by S/370, I mean _real_ S/370, with the cool panels. Not the beige
>boxes IBM made in late 1970s, dropping the S/370 name.

Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-(  (It's a CMOS
version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't
tinker with hardware much at all, etc.  Pah!

Later this winter, William, I'll be trying to get the bugs worked out of
that thing as to IPL failures. I still have to move it over from the old
house to its new home in a nicely remodeled basement workarea. It'll set
beside the PDP-11 racks I still need to haul outta the garage before
winter. All this stuff is _heavy_. Oh, my sore back! 

Anyway, O Honorable Listmembers, stand by for a request from me for VSE OS
documentation of any sort and perhaps some IPL troubleshooting.

--Chris
-- --

Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 21 09:42:00 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <36065ACB1A6.4F37KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921012043.3951E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <199809211446.JAA07388@trailingedge.com>

On 21 Sep 98, at 9:55, Dominique Cormann wrote:

> Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C
> (ansi c)?

Yes, there is an ANSI BASIC standard.  There is a version out for 
the PC (and the Mac I believe) called True BASIC which is ANSI 
standard.  I'm sure there were others too.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 21 09:44:55 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980920233641.27909M-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809210214370.3454-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <199809211449.JAA07398@trailingedge.com>

On 20 Sep 98, at 23:37, Sam Ismail wrote:
> Include in this list the Mindset and the various S-100 '86 boxen.

Sam,

I believe the DOS for my Mindset is copyright Micro$oft.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 21 09:43:57 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <980921104357.b0@trailing-edge.com>

Someone wrote:

>> Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
>> executable environment.

Except for the fact that it pretty much requires that IEEE floating point be
used.  Yes, Virginia, there are lots of machines out there that don't
do IEEE math!  And there are many good reasons to *not* use IEEE floating
point.

William Donzelli pointed out:
> C is well established, Java is not.

True, but C itself if far from portable.  The endless maze of #ifdef's
that are necessary to make a piece of source code portable among a limited
set of machines and OS's are fine and dandy unless you have to support all 
those different permutations!

> People keep worrying about what the
> different companies will do to extend or change Java. When Java gets to be
> a truely standard, then I might say OK.

Part of the problem is that folks are already using Java in ways that
are not portable.  It's almost as bad as those web pages that come up
and *insist* that you change your graphics mode to 640x480 or
some other particular size - why do folks insist on starting with a
nice general information-based document standard and then turn it into
a nonportable one???!!!  At least, in my experience, any page that
insists on being viewed at some particular resolution inevitably has
absolutely zero information content, so I don't want to view it anyway.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 21 09:45:40 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920201546.5792.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <13389690318.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

/dev/printer?

Was it linked to lp0 or lp1?

(What port is your printer on?)
-------


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 21 09:48:59 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980920222311.28401.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13389690923.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Anyone have IBM 360/30 for Linux port?]

No, but I've a couple System/36es and a System/34...

-------


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 21 10:00:52 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920233027.31144F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <13389693087.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[All sims should be written in Java]

Ha!  If you expect me to try writing ka10 in that, you're nuts.
I'm having enough trouble with C...
(And keeping my crappy 486 up for more than 10 minutes so as to hack at it[1])

[1] No, Not Windoze.  Linux, on failing hardware.  The IO controller is giving
up every 10 minutes or so, and the keyboard controller is starting to fail.
I'm working on moving the project to my MicroVAX, but having console
difficulties.
-------


From Bob.Withers at MCI.com  Mon Sep 21 10:04:24 1998
From: Bob.Withers at MCI.com (Withers, Bob (MCI))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <CA6966C24AC6D111B5A100805FEAB7D82AE38F@nsrip00208.mcit.com>

True Basic is the name of the version of the language published by Professor's
Kemeny and Kurtz, the inventors of the language.  As far as I know the Basic
language has not been standardized by ANSI, ISO, or any other standards
organization.  Can you provide more information?

Bob



> On 21 Sep 98, at 9:55, Dominique Cormann wrote:
> 
> > Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C
> > (ansi c)?
> 
> Yes, there is an ANSI BASIC standard.  There is a version out for 
> the PC (and the Mac I believe) called True BASIC which is ANSI 
> standard.  I'm sure there were others too.
> 
> 
> -----
> David Williams - Computer Packrat
> dlw@trailingedge.com
> http://www.trailingedge.com


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 21 10:08:04 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: wierd stuff/spam
In-Reply-To: <199809210530.XAA28386@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <13389694397.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Someone's using litterbox as a spam relay]

Some fsckhead tried this with makoto a few weeks ago - Don't know where
he got it's hostname from.  I was on at the time, and caught him (Gee, why
am I paging from running ls?  Hmm..  mailq...  OH, FSCK!)
He was a local luser at another ISP nearby, so I phoned them and they
cancelled his account.
-------


From william at ans.net  Mon Sep 21 10:13:50 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <199809211438.OAA21109@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage,
> there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you though. 

I think is simply the prestige of the S/360s. After all, they are probably
the single most influential computer family of the 1960s. The S/370s just
do not have the same magic in their name.

> Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-(  (It's a CMOS
> version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't
> tinker with hardware much at all, etc.  Pah!

Even the last of the machines tagged "System/370" started to lose their
panels. By the time the 3033 and 4331 came out (mid to late 1970s), the
panels were gone. IBM used the same cabinets until recently switching over
to the black and red (very sharp looking) S/390s.

S/370 panels are amazing. Unlike the S/360 panels, they are black with all
sorts of color coding, and liberal use of the hexadecimal knobs for
setting the registers.

I would like to find a picture of any old S/370 on the Web, but I have not
come accross one yet.

> Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian

Lets give Chris a big hand for being an Auction helper at the Antique
Wireless Association meet in Rochester, NY just a few weeks ago. He did
not drop too many things.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From Marty at itgonline.com  Mon Sep 21 10:48:48 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <1998Sep21.114735.1767.140226@smtp.itgonline.com>

 
 How many DeForest double wing audions did Chris drop? Did they bounce 
 or shatter?
 
 Marty  


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/21/98 11:16 AM


 > Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage,
 > there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you
though.
 
 
 
 I think is simply the prestige of the S/360s. After all, they are probably 
 the single most influential computer family of the 1960s. The S/370s just 
 do not have the same magic in their name.
 
 > Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-(  (It's a CMOS 
 > version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't
 > tinker with hardware much at all, etc.  Pah!
 
 Even the last of the machines tagged "System/370" started to lose their 
 panels. By the time the 3033 and 4331 came out (mid to late 1970s), the 
 panels were gone. IBM used the same cabinets until recently switching over 
 to the black and red (very sharp looking) S/390s.
 
 S/370 panels are amazing. Unlike the S/360 panels, they are black with all 
 sorts of color coding, and liberal use of the hexadecimal knobs for 
 setting the registers.
 
 I would like to find a picture of any old S/370 on the Web, but I have not 
 come accross one yet.
 
 > Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
 
 Lets give Chris a big hand for being an Auction helper at the Antique 
 Wireless Association meet in Rochester, NY just a few weeks ago. He did 
 not drop too many things.
 
 William Donzelli
 william@ans.net
 
 
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From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Mon Sep 21 11:18:54 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Books for DEC-heads
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980919174617.25483B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <36067C6E.C66FD3BC@freegate.com>

Doug, I would really like to get my hands on the PDP-8 titles. Are you
looking to trade something for them perhaps? What are you interested in
collecting?
--Chuck


Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> Lucky me.  I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today.  A nice
> assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles.  I don't do DEC (I remember
> cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last
> time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon
> Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so.
> 
> Except for one.  This one is not only rare, but seems to be full of useful
> info: VAX-11/750 Level II Student Workbork (For Internal Use Only).  This
> looks like it would be great for somebody who wants a pretty deep
> understanding of the VAX architecture, including microcode, the WCS,
> unibus, the works.  I'm not good at estimating page count, but it's
> double-sided 8.5x11x2".  If some DEC-head could use this, let me know.
> Offer me a trade of, say, your spare Intel MCS-4 manual and it's yours :-)
> 
> -- Doug


From mtapley at swri.edu  Mon Sep 21 11:02:54 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 539
In-Reply-To: <199809190702.AAA29324@lists4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <l03102802b22c20bd0cda@[129.162.151.33]>

All,
	Another announcement of possibly useful stuff on
comp.sys.dec.micro. Contact him not me and I can't vouch for him.
						- Mark

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Path:
Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-
hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail
From: fonzo@mindspring.com (Don Dalfonzo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
Subject: manuals
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:17:33 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <360321ef.696121@news.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: fonzo@mindspring.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lc6s9.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 19 Sep 1998 03:13:42 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec.micro:9088

Anyone interested in unused(shrinkwrapped) ultrix manuals - 4.6 I
believe.. let me know before I dump them... also some uniplex manuals.
Complete set of both .....
Don
or email
fonzo@mindspring.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon Sep 21 10:28:44 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980918212622.30824A-100000@www.retrocomputin
 g.com>
References: <199809190255.WAA06769@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980921102844.00c59e40@pc>

At 09:32 PM 9/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I thought of doing two of those, put wheels on the steppers, use two to 
>push it around in various directions, mount a pair plastic replicas of 
>table-saw blades on the drive motors

Sounds like my friends who build robots for the Bay area "robot wars"
competitions.  They do incorporate truly deadly weapons in their
remote-control 'bots, including spinning saw blades.

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon Sep 21 10:47:34 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980919165955.18646I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980921104734.00c16670@pc>

At 05:01 PM 9/19/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be
>found walking the halls of VCF 2.0.

So you found him?  Who won your contest for the VCF lifetime pass?

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon Sep 21 11:18:29 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <980921103350.b0@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980921111829.00c0c100@pc>

At 10:33 AM 9/21/98 -0400, CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
>In _BYTE_ 1982:6 p182, you'll find
>Thomas Kurtz (yes, *the* Kurtz of Dartmouth) describing the draft
>standard as it then existed, and he actually sold a working version of
>this called "True BASIC". 

I think I own a copy of True BASIC for the Amiga.

>True, but C itself if far from portable.  The endless maze of #ifdef's
>that are necessary to make a piece of source code portable among a limited
>set of machines and OS's are fine and dandy unless you have to support all 
>those different permutations!

Straight ANSI C must be the most portable language for contemporary
computers.  Java is written in it.  :-)  C++ is another matter, it still 
has too many flavors.  Depending on the app, portability can be a great 
hassle (if you expect portable GUIs) or a non-concern (in command-line, 
text-based apps).

- John



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Mon Sep 21 11:30:38 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: wierd stuff/spam
References: <13389694397.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <36067F2E.4404D827@freegate.com>

Use qmail. Since spammers are not sending mail to your domain, qmail
will, by default not relay any mail not to your domain. You can also
modify it so that only your IP address can relay mail if you are using
it as a mail relay. (www.qmail.org)

--Chuck
Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
> [Someone's using litterbox as a spam relay]


From spc at armigeron.com  Mon Sep 21 09:21:49 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <980921104357.b0@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Sep 21, 98 10:43:57 am
Message-ID: <199809211421.KAA05405@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com once stated:
> 
> William Donzelli pointed out:
> > C is well established, Java is not.
> 
> True, but C itself if far from portable.  The endless maze of #ifdef's
> that are necessary to make a piece of source code portable among a limited
> set of machines and OS's are fine and dandy unless you have to support all 
> those different permutations!

  As a software geek, C is quite portable, as long as you keep several
things in mind, like shorts are at least 16 bits, longs are at least 32
bits, ints are at least 16 bits and can't be longer than a long, and don't
use functions not defined in the Standard C library (or stuff you've
written).

  It's only when you strive for solid, reliable robust code that you have to
skip past the Standard C library and that's when you start having all those
insipid #ifdef's all over the place.  It takes experience and some skill to
deal with that stuff cleanly [1].

> It's almost as bad as those web pages that come up
> and *insist* that you change your graphics mode to 640x480 or
> some other particular size - why do folks insist on starting with a
> nice general information-based document standard and then turn it into
> a nonportable one???!!!  

  They spend an inordinate amount of time getting the stuff to look decent
on *their* system and they assume everyone has the same set up.  Also (as
far as coding goes) it's easier to write non-portable code than it is
portable [2].  Sorry.  Unless the content is very compelling, if I can't
read it, I'll move on.

  -spc (Heretic programmer and computer crumudgeon ... )

[1]	Basically, it comes down to abstraction.  If you can hide the
	non-portable stuff within a function you have a better chance of
	dealing with more ports.  A program I wrote [3] for Unix needed
	a few functions changed (about 4) to run successfully under
	Windows.

[2]	Actually, it's pretty easy, as long as you plan from the start to
	make the program portable.  But I'm afraid most programmers don't
	design as much as hack away at things.  Linux was like that, and
	it took about three years to get it ``portable.''  I would like
	for students in CS departments to be forced to write code for
	two or more different platforms, but alas, I doubt that'll every
	come to pass.

[3]	It's actually a CGI program in C that's being turned into a stand-
	alone program for Windows.  You can play with it at
	http://www.geofind.com/



From william at ans.net  Mon Sep 21 11:31:02 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980921111829.00c0c100@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921122507.17566E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> >True, but C itself if far from portable.  The endless maze of #ifdef's
> >that are necessary to make a piece of source code portable among a limited
> >set of machines and OS's are fine and dandy unless you have to support all 
> >those different permutations!

Well, that is what sizeof() and #ifdef are for! Liberal use of them!

> Straight ANSI C must be the most portable language for contemporary
> computers.  Java is written in it.  :-)  C++ is another matter, it still 
> has too many flavors.  Depending on the app, portability can be a great 
> hassle (if you expect portable GUIs) or a non-concern (in command-line, 
> text-based apps).

C++ is also a bit portable, if you stay away from all of the object crap
(geeks gone bananas).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 21 11:48:06 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: My 'newest' one: an Epson QX-10
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <36068343.D0E58D6D@xio.com>

I picked up an Epson QX-10 yesterday for $22. It came with 256k of RAM, CP/M
2.2, Valdocs 1.19 and Valdocs III+.

Most intruiging is the single card in the expansion slots: a Titan
Technologies QX-PC. I gather that this was a 8088 and memory that allowed the
Epson to run MS-DOS and MS-DOS software (kinda like its big brother, the QX-16).

I have the "QX-PC Pre-boot" disk and the "MS-DOS v2.11" disk that apparently
came with the Titan card. On the Pre-boot disk is a CP/M system and two .COM
files: QXPC, which when run claims to be testing the QXPC card but never
finishes; and QXDISK, which complains about the harddisk(!) being
misconfigured or not responding and returns to the CP/M prompt.

Is/was there a harddisk option for the QX-10?
What other options are/were available for it?
Any ideas about what might be wrong with the QXPC card?

I noticed there's a whole lot more information about the Epson portables (the
HX and PX) on the 'net than there is about the QXs.

	-jrs


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 11:54:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980921104734.00c16670@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921095419.17480G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> At 05:01 PM 9/19/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
> >
> >Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be
> >found walking the halls of VCF 2.0.
> 
> So you found him?  Who won your contest for the VCF lifetime pass?

I'll let that person come forward if they so choose :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From info at annalee.com  Mon Sep 21 11:56:52 1998
From: info at annalee.com (Annalee.Com Info)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: removal help
Message-ID: <01BDE55F.51794DC0@laco2-6.worldpath.net>

Please sent me information about how to be removed for this list serve.  Thank you.


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 11:55:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Kids these days
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980921102844.00c59e40@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921095500.17480H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Sounds like my friends who build robots for the Bay area "robot wars"
> competitions.  They do incorporate truly deadly weapons in their
> remote-control 'bots, including spinning saw blades.

I always seem to miss this event!  I'll bet Chuck knows all about the
when/where on this.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Mon Sep 21 12:04:31 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: My 'newest' one: an Epson QX-10
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> <36068343.D0E58D6D@xio.com>
Message-ID: <3606871F.3BAB459E@freegate.com>

"Don't touch it, it's EVIL." A line from the Time Bandits I believe...
I actually won a QX-10 with its Titan PC card in a contest once. It was
surrealistically slow running MS-DOS, not very compatible, and just
plain weird. I also had the hard disk card for it.  Weird system. 

QXPC should finish if the Titan card is working. I may have the source
to it (don't ask :-) I'll see...

--Chuck

Jason Simpson wrote:
> 
> I picked up an Epson QX-10 yesterday for $22. It came with 256k of RAM, CP/M
> 2.2, Valdocs 1.19 and Valdocs III+.
> 
> Most intruiging is the single card in the expansion slots: a Titan
> Technologies QX-PC. I gather that this was a 8088 and memory that allowed the
> Epson to run MS-DOS and MS-DOS software (kinda like its big brother, the QX-16).
> 
> I have the "QX-PC Pre-boot" disk and the "MS-DOS v2.11" disk that apparently
> came with the Titan card. On the Pre-boot disk is a CP/M system and two .COM
> files: QXPC, which when run claims to be testing the QXPC card but never
> finishes; and QXDISK, which complains about the harddisk(!) being
> misconfigured or not responding and returns to the CP/M prompt.
> 
> Is/was there a harddisk option for the QX-10?
> What other options are/were available for it?
> Any ideas about what might be wrong with the QXPC card?
> 
> I noticed there's a whole lot more information about the Epson portables (the
> HX and PX) on the 'net than there is about the QXs.
> 
>         -jrs


From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Mon Sep 21 12:07:48 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: Kids these days
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921095500.17480H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <360687E4.FAF0117F@freegate.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> I always seem to miss this event!  I'll bet Chuck knows all about the
> when/where on this.

Actually the creator's of Robot wars (the original inventor and his
original investor) have been in litigation for over two years now. This
year a private group was going to rent the Cow Palace for a _private_
event and they still got put on notice that if the event proceeded they
would be sued. At this point it seems to be just testicles talking,
there is no rational for why, if you try to host such an event in the
US, you should be sued...

Bottom line: no robotwars this year (or Robotica for that matter)
--Chuck


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 21 12:07:41 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:46 2005
Subject: wierd stuff/spam
In-Reply-To: <36067F2E.4404D827@freegate.com>
Message-ID: <13389716171.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Use qmail]

It's already fixed - I got the latest Sendmail and turned off relaying.
Did so for the mains too - (Try relaying something thru ubani.umtec.com and
see what it says :).

Besides, qmail doesn't have a Turing Machine, does it?
-------


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Mon Sep 21 12:41:32 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: "bblish" Altair fails to sell on eBay AGAIN
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BDA70@RED-MSG-43>

This is at LEAST the third time he's listed that Altair 8800 on eBay, and it
failed to sell AGAIN, this time topping out at a "mere" $2225.

Has anybody exchanged email with him?  What the hell is this guy doing?

Kai



From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Mon Sep 21 12:54:05 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Help with Lisa 2 vertical hold
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BDAAB@RED-MSG-43>

Does anybody know how to adjust the vertical hold on a Lisa 2?

thanks

Kai



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 13:07:52 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Help with Lisa 2 vertical hold
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BDAAB@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110720.29786A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:

> Does anybody know how to adjust the vertical hold on a Lisa 2?

Try this web site:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba/lisatech

And specifically this web page:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba/lisatech/page44_45.html

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 21 14:34:36 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: My 'newest' one: an Epson QX-10
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> <36068343.D0E58D6D@xio.com> <3606871F.3BAB459E@freegate.com>
Message-ID: <3606AA43.A291BADC@xio.com>

Chuck McManis wrote:
> 
> "Don't touch it, it's EVIL." A line from the Time Bandits I believe...

"...PURE evil..."

Actually, it seems like a reasonable system, at least CP/M-wise. I did find a
page on the web where a fellow made an IDE controller card and patched the
BDOS to use it. I'd really like to play with a 2.5" card-mounted HD in this thing!

Now that Titan card might be evil... MS-DOS and all. :)

It's strange that 64k (CP/M memory) + 111k (RAM disk) leaves 81k of 'unused'
memory. Where'd that go? 

> I actually won a QX-10 with its Titan PC card in a contest once. It was
> surrealistically slow running MS-DOS, not very compatible, and just
> plain weird. I also had the hard disk card for it.  Weird system.

I just put Turbo Pascal 3.0 on it last night, although I have to reconfigure
the key commands. (Anyone know a quick way to get TP3 back to WordStar-style
defaults? My copy, freshly installed, doesn't even let me exit the editor. All
the key commands except up/down/left/right are undefined.)

It's certainly faster and easier to use than my Commodore 128 I've been
playing with in CP/M mode.

> QXPC should finish if the Titan card is working. I may have the source
> to it (don't ask :-) I'll see...

I let it run for 5, maybe 10 minutes without any noticable progress.

Source? Uh.. Okay.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 14:18:51 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921122507.17566E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921140436.25199A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Woe is me.  Did I start this language war?  Before somebody suggests ANSI
COBOL, let me once again remind you that it was the portability of the
binary program and execution environment that I was talking about, and not
portability of the source code.  If the simulator author distributes
source code, then that is good documentation for the simulated
architecture no matter what language she uses, although it will almost
certainly involve a porting effort to get it running on
machine-X-of-the-future because most language standards don't define a
rich I/O package. And I doubt that a sim that is written in, say, portable
C and uses stdio will be very interesting to run. 

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 14:35:16 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <199809211935.AA05778@world.std.com>


<   As a software geek, C is quite portable, as long as you keep several
< things in mind, like shorts are at least 16 bits, longs are at least 32
< bits, ints are at least 16 bits and can't be longer than a long, and don
< use functions not defined in the Standard C library (or stuff you've
< written).

Those things are or should be a given for any language.  The problem in 
all cases is when you talk to hardware, soon as you do that portability 
is likely broken.  This has always been true and until hardware is reduced 
to one uniform platform (gag!).  That is unlikely.

< > It's almost as bad as those web pages that come up
< > and *insist* that you change your graphics mode to 640x480 or
< > some other particular size - why do folks insist on starting with a
< > nice general information-based document standard and then turn it int
< > a nonportable one???!!!  

See hardware and portability.


Allison



From spc at armigeron.com  Mon Sep 21 12:47:47 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809211935.AA05778@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 21, 98 03:35:16 pm
Message-ID: <199809211747.NAA05959@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Allison J Parent once stated:
> 
> 
> <   As a software geek, C is quite portable, as long as you keep several
> < things in mind, like shorts are at least 16 bits, longs are at least 32
> < bits, ints are at least 16 bits and can't be longer than a long, and don
> < use functions not defined in the Standard C library (or stuff you've
> < written).
> 
> Those things are or should be a given for any language.  The problem in 
> all cases is when you talk to hardware, soon as you do that portability 
> is likely broken.  This has always been true and until hardware is reduced 
> to one uniform platform (gag!).  That is unlikely.

  The C Standard guarentees a minimum size for various types; they can be
larger.  Also, if you're hitting the hardware then of course the code is not
going to be portable (or portable to only those systems that support that
piece of hardware).  Since that's the case, then what is typically done (or
rather, should be 8-) is to use system/compile specific extensions, but
isolate them.

  For instance, I would specify an API to read/write at a generic level
(block_read(), block_write()) and create datatypes appropriate to the device
(block_t is a block number), and have code call this layer.  This layer
would be the only thing to change, not the rest.

  You might call this a device driver 8-)

  I don't expect device drivers to be very portable.  But well designed code
will minimize the non-portable stuff.

  -spc (The Linux kernel proper is farily portable now ... )



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 16:32:40 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <19980921213240.25989.qmail@hotmail.com>





ELKS worked more or less last time I checked it. I think Minix is a
lot better for the purpose, though.
I've seen several attempts at UNIX for the Commodore, but never tried
them. are they anything like UNIX, or just demo UNIX look-alikes?
(The difference is that when you type ls on one, it executes assembly
or C code, and when you do it on the other, it has a bit of code:
300 IF A$ = "ls" THEN LOAD "$",8,1 )

>On this list, "classic" means 10 years old or older, for the most part. 
>The 386 already qualifies.  However, there is a project (stalled?) to 
get
>Linux running on some older 8-bitters: 
>	http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html
>
>-- Doug
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 16:39:56 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
Message-ID: <19980921213956.18891.qmail@hotmail.com>







Well, I feel the same way about Apples. I mean, I find Apple IIs as
boring as any PC XT. And both are quite common. I sometimes find
various PC clone models interesting, but not very. But about these
370 cards, am I to understand they're normal PCs that can also act
like 370s?
>You're right!  I should have paid more attention to the NAQ list.
>I guess there's simply no refuge from x86 PCs; they invade every 
newsgroup
>and mailing list.  Not to mention surplus stores; it's getting very 
hard
>to find anything interesting because the places are completely overrun
>with PC crap.  As if anyone really wants huge piles of off-brand EGA 
cards
>(or any EGA cards), ARCnet cards, etc.  Sigh.
>
>The only halfway interesting PC-based hardware I've ever found surplus 
are
>the XT/370 and AT/370 board sets, and I've never gotten the software 
for
>them.  If anyone wants them, though, I think Timeline is still 
advertising
>them.  Be forewarned, however, that they are mapped to the 512K-640K
>memory address range, so they won't work unless you have a motherboard 
that
>can be configured to NOT provide memory in that range.
>
>These boards contained three processors, a custom-microcoded 68000 
variant
>to implement the core 370 instruction set, a standard 68000 to 
implement
>the instructions that wouldn't fit in the microcode of the first one, 
and
>a custom version of the 8087 hacked to do IBM radix-16 floating point
>instead of IEEE.
>
>Too bad no technical docs were ever available, it would be fun to port
>Linux to them.
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 16:52:18 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <19980921215219.20240.qmail@hotmail.com>
















Well, I don't know of any OS that runs on an XT besides DOS and
various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case.
>were running MS-DOS when I worked there back in 90-91.  Possibly
>not the best way to run the gear (is MS-DOS _ever_ the best way to
>run the gear?) but functional.  Don't recall any '486 NGENs -- I
>was working with the Unisys 6000 series mostly, didn't actually
>_use_ any NGENs myself, but did use several old (left over from the
>AT&T contract) Unix PCs as my consoles for the machines I was doing
>software QA on.  The '486 was fairly new at the time, I'd been given
>to understand that NGEN was a dead series then -- pretty machines
>that they were.
>-- 
>Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
>
>When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
>firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 12:44:36 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
In-Reply-To: <19980921020313.29511.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 21, 98 02:03:13 am
Message-ID: <m0zLA0u-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 12:48:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b22b79e8231b@[207.220.32.173]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 20, 98 07:45:16 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLA4s-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 12:55:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920233027.31144F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 20, 98 11:38:16 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 13:06:32 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <19980921082027.30833.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 21, 98 08:20:27 am
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 14:44:58 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: My 'newest' one: an Epson QX-10
In-Reply-To: <36068343.D0E58D6D@xio.com> from "Jason Simpson" at Sep 21, 98 09:48:06 am
Message-ID: <m0zLBtO-000IyUC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 17:33:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: "bblish" Altair fails to sell on eBay AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BDA70@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921172856.15456A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:

> This is at LEAST the third time he's listed that Altair 8800 on eBay, and it
> failed to sell AGAIN, this time topping out at a "mere" $2225.
> 
> Has anybody exchanged email with him?  What the hell is this guy doing?

He's trying to get more than it's worth, of course.  He actually had a
chance the first time he listed it, but all of the over-bidders already
have their Altairs now.  It's a classic case of supply and demand.  $2000
is the "normal" price for an Altair sold via online auction.  $500 is
still the normal price for transactions between private parties, and $5 is
the normal price when you find one at GoodWill. 

-- Doug



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 17:44:41 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: "bblish" Altair fails to sell on eBay AGAIN
Message-ID: <2f03c266.3606d6d9@aol.com>

If you read his text he has a reserve of $6000.
Pax


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 21 20:06:09 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <v04011705b22ca69c829c@[207.220.32.115]>

I picked up 5 Quantum Q540's yesterday in the hope of being able to get
some usable diskspace for one of my PDP-11's.  These are the same as a RD52
from what I've been able to find out.

I stick one of the drives in my VS2000 and try to format it with the following
results:

>>> T 70


                  KA410-A RDRXfmt


VSfmt_QUE_unitno (0-2) ? 0

VSfmt_STS_Siz .??

VSfmt_RES_ERR #2
 84 FAIL

It does this for each of the drives.  The drives "sound good" for what it's
worth.  Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52,
does the VS2000 have a dislike for RD52's, or (my personal suspicion) is
the drive simply dead.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 19:05:23 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
Message-ID: <19980922000523.1549.qmail@hotmail.com>





I'm sure that the problem is that earlier, you had a different
concept of interesting machines. I don't think minis and workstations
were ever very common at hamfests, compared to common micros. I don't
think PCs are bringing an end to classic computing; sooner or later,
all PDPs and VAXen and IMSAIs will be in the hands of collectors.
In the meantime, some interesting machines are still being made.
The AS/400 for example, is a non-micro. The problem, I guess, is that
when the computer market got a life of its own and was no longer
paid for by the government, PHBs didn't see the beauty of an 8-opcode
machine that had been developed for 10 years. And as long as computers
are commercial, we'll see much less of this 'interesting' stuff.
Maybe if Transmeta comes out with something, it will be interesting
10 years from the release. Then again, it might be another WinChip...
>upon pile of motherboards, I/O cards, VGA cards, etc on sale. And very 
>few 'interesting' machines.
>


Did Compaq document their machines well?
>
>Actually, I do tend to buy genuine IBM cards, especially if they're 
>described in the TechRefs. A lot of them did 'set the standard' for 
what 
>followed, and although poorly designed certainly have a place in the 
>history of computing.
>
>[AT/370]
> 
>> Too bad no technical docs were ever available, it would be fun to 
port
>> Linux to them.
>
>YEs, I've never managed to trace a TechRef for them, alas...
>
>> 
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 21 19:10:53 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <980921104357.b0@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <199809220010.KAA18631@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 10:43 AM 21-09-98 -0400, CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
>Someone wrote:
>
>>> Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
>>> executable environment.
>
>Except for the fact that it pretty much requires that IEEE floating point be
>used.  Yes, Virginia, there are lots of machines out there that don't
>do IEEE math!  And there are many good reasons to *not* use IEEE floating
>point.
>
>William Donzelli pointed out:
>> C is well established, Java is not.

Well, if you want to do something reasonably portable (I was about to write
portable, but someone will provide a nice counter example :-) you could
write it in a language that has a compiler written in itself that generates
pseudo-code. Two examples come to mind, Pascal and BCPL (me, I prefer the
latter, but what the heck).

You then write an interpreter for the pseudo-code in anything handy (the
BCPL one I have is written in c, but it's about a day's work to rewrite in
some other high level language. Took about 2 weeks way back when to write
macros to convert intcode (the BCPL pseudo-code) to 8080 assembler, and
then about a week to assemble a simple program on my Northstar :-)). Then
you have a relatively portable environment that you can take with you
wherever you go. I have versions of the BCPL compiler running on VMS,
Digital Unix, Linux and NT. My one major BCPL program works in all these
environments (it's my basic test of correctness other than the compiler
itself).

Further info at http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/LANG/BCPL-1.html

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 19:11:36 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <199809220011.AA24827@world.std.com>

< Well, I don't know of any OS that runs on an XT besides DOS and
< various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case.

You neglect CP/M-86 and CCPM.  Also MINIX (unix like) and a few other more 
obscure OSs.

Allison



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 21 19:12:35 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980921201235.167@trailing-edge.com>

>VSfmt_RES_ERR #2
> 84 FAIL
>
>It does this for each of the drives.  The drives "sound good" for what it's
>worth.  Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52

Really silly question: what have you set the drive select jumper to
on the Q540's?  Generally on VAXen you have to set the DS to the third
position (DS3 if it starts at one, DS2 if it starts at zero.)

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 19:21:59 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809220010.KAA18631@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921191652.12166A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Huw Davies wrote:

> Well, if you want to do something reasonably portable (I was about to write
> portable, but someone will provide a nice counter example :-) you could
> write it in a language that has a compiler written in itself that generates
> pseudo-code. Two examples come to mind, Pascal and BCPL (me, I prefer the
> latter, but what the heck).

Excellent idea!  That's part of the reason to choose Java :-)  Sun's Java
compiler is written in Java, and generates code for the Java virtual
machine.  Most of the Java runtime environment is also written in Java,
except for the machine-level glue which is written in a combo of C and
assembler. 

I'm sure future generation won't have to worry about performance of the
JVM, but for users that have that concern today, many Java compilers can
also compile down to native code (not to mention JIT).

I'm not a big Java fan for most applications, but for certain niches it's
a great idea.

-- Doug



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 21 20:55:26 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <980921201235.167@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <v04011706b22cb2fb6bc3@[207.220.32.115]>

>>VSfmt_RES_ERR #2
>> 84 FAIL
>>
>>It does this for each of the drives.  The drives "sound good" for what it's
>>worth.  Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52
>
>Really silly question: what have you set the drive select jumper to
>on the Q540's?  Generally on VAXen you have to set the DS to the third
>position (DS3 if it starts at one, DS2 if it starts at zero.)
>
>--
> Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
> 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

Not a silly question in the least.  Sort of falls in the "now why didn't I
think of that" catagory!  In all cases except 1 DS1 was jumpered, on the
one exception, nothing is jumpered.  Set it to DS2, no luck, set it to DS3
and it works.  Thanks!

Next question, does anyone happen to have the list of correct answers to
give the formating program written down anywhere?  Yes, I'm lazy enough not
to want to have to figure that out.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 21 20:06:50 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Tandy 600 questions
Message-ID: <199809220106.SAA10191@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I purchased a Tandy 600 at the York Hamfest on Sunday.  The unit doesn't 
seem to work - the screen fills up with garbage (just alternating pixels, 
about 75% black).  Anybody know what could cause this?

I'm trying to take the unit apart so I can look at it, but its not 
opening up very easily.  Are there screws under the four rubber feet on 
the bottom?  They're in so good I'd have to tear them apart to get them 
out, which I hate to do unless I know there are actually screws under it.

Thanks.

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 19:58:12 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
In-Reply-To: <19980922000523.1549.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 21, 98 05:05:23 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLGmU-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 20:09:21 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: printer socket (Off topic)
Message-ID: <19980922010922.17418.qmail@hotmail.com>





Well, if someone doesn't want to run a microsoft OS, does that
mean they don't want any version of DOS because they think DOS sucks?
CP/M doesn't suck any more or any less, IMHO. Maybe a bit more
>< various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case.
>
>You neglect CP/M-86 and CCPM.  Also MINIX (unix like) and a few other 
more 
>obscure OSs.
>
>Allison
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 21 20:10:11 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921191652.12166A-100000@behemoth.host4u.n
 et>
References: <199809220010.KAA18631@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809220110.LAA19321@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 07:21 PM 21-09-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:

>Excellent idea!  That's part of the reason to choose Java :-)  Sun's Java
>compiler is written in Java, and generates code for the Java virtual
>machine.  Most of the Java runtime environment is also written in Java,
>except for the machine-level glue which is written in a combo of C and
>assembler. 

I guess the only difference is that BCPL is significantly smaller and
simpler. I doubt that I could move Java to a new environment within a week,
whereas I'd be confident that anyone with some simple programming skills
could move BCPL, even with the limited documentation that exists.

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 21 20:07:04 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <m0zLABo-000IyPC@p850ug1>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980920233027.31144F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 06:55 PM 21-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
>> Simulators are the single best way to preserve classic machines for
>> future generations.  Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
>
>OK, I'll be polite. I strongly disagree with that statement! (I could be 
>a lot stronger than that...)
>
>A simulator (in general) preserves one aspect of the machine - a platform 
>on which to run the original programs. What it doesn't preserve is any 
>feel of the hardware, any of the hardware techniques that were in use at 
>that time, the construction methods, etc.

Well some machines only exist in small numbers (or not at all) so a
simulator is one way of preserving the environment. Another difficulty is
that some desirable machines are a little large to own personally. The sort
of machines I'm talking about are Atlas, DECsystem-10s, CDC6600s and so on.
A simulator is at least better than just reading about them...

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 21 20:23:33 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))
References: <19980922000523.1549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3606FC15.ACF09CCF@cnct.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> I'm sure that the problem is that earlier, you had a different
> concept of interesting machines. I don't think minis and workstations
> were ever very common at hamfests, compared to common micros. I don't
> think PCs are bringing an end to classic computing; sooner or later,
> all PDPs and VAXen and IMSAIs will be in the hands of collectors.

And/or in landfills.  A lot are already there.

> Did Compaq document their machines well?

Not that I've noticed -- that may improve with the acquisition of DEC,
if they keep some of the tech writing crew, but I wouldn't bet the
ranch on it.

-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 20:25:50 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <199809220125.AA20669@world.std.com>

<It does this for each of the drives.  The drives "sound good" for what i
< worth.  Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52
< does the VS2000 have a dislike for RD52's, or (my personal suspicion) i
< the drive simply dead.

ok, Quantum DQ540s are RD52... no difference, as I have RD52s and guess 
what they also say on the outside.  Also the QD540 is about as reliable a 
drive as you can find.

VS2000 likes the following:

20mb	Seagate St225
40mb	Seagate ST251
31mb	Quantum QD540
71mb	Micropolus 1325
159mb	Maxtor 2190 series

Now if the drive is incorrectly jumpered it will not work. If it's been 
formatted on say a PC the format mode of the VS2000 may not work as 
expected.  Meaning you have to fill in the values manually.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 20:25:56 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off
    topic))
Message-ID: <199809220125.AA20733@world.std.com>

<The AS/400 for example, is a non-micro. The problem, I guess, is that
< when the computer market got a life of its own and was no longer
< paid for by the government, PHBs didn't see the beauty of an 8-opcode

?????  the government did make a few interesting machines but the bulk 
of them from Univac on were the result of private industry trying to make 
the better mouse trap.

having played with a minuteman missle computer (you could get them surplus
in the early '70s).  I can say they are interesting for their day and hard 
as hell to program usefully as they were not innovative.

< machine that had been developed for 10 years. And as long as computers
< are commercial, we'll see much less of this 'interesting' stuff.
< Maybe if Transmeta comes out with something, it will be interesting

There are a lot of intresting machine of very current design that while 
not part of the converstation here as classics the cpus are none the less 
interesting even though they are neither PC or pc.

Allison



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 21 20:33:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921183128.4082B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


You people thought you were weird.  Would you believe there's an article
in the Wall Street Journal today about people who collect (and pay
outrageous eBay sums for)--get this---old sneakers?

A pair of some Nike something-or-others sold for $2,300 on ebay, and some
fetch up to $5,000.  And we thought all the money was in Altairs.

I'm sorry, but sneakers I can not understand.  Computers, yes.  Beanie
babies, maybe.  Sneakers??

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 20:27:53 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Sep 22, 98 11:07:04 am
Message-ID: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 20:41:49 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809220110.LAA19321@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921203415.12166C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Huw Davies wrote:

> I guess the only difference is that BCPL is significantly smaller and
> simpler. I doubt that I could move Java to a new environment within a week,
> whereas I'd be confident that anyone with some simple programming skills
> could move BCPL, even with the limited documentation that exists.

That's true, but it's also part of the reason that Sun defined several
levels of Java runtime.  I haven't kept track of the latest haps, but last
I checked they had "personal" and "embedded" Java which basically defined
subsets of the run-time environment that both facilitate porting effort
and minimize footprint. 

But for something like a desktop environment to run pretty GUI simulators,
you'd want to port the GUI glue.  You don't have that "problem" with other
languages simply because they didn't define a GUI abstraction. 

In any case, nailing down a common simulation runtime environment would
just be one of the hurdles.  It'd also be nice to define, for example, a
software bus so that simulator writers could easily share CPU and
peripheral implementations.  From experience, I can tell you that writing
a good 386 simulation, for example, is tough, and I wouldn't wish that
particular wheel-reinvention upon anybody I liked :-)

-- Doug



From cfandt at servtech.com  Mon Sep 21 20:35:12 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.n
 et>
References: <199809211438.OAA21109@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <199809220145.BAA01744@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 11:13 21-09-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>> Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage,
>> there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you
though. 
>
>I think is simply the prestige of the S/360s. After all, they are probably
>the single most influential computer family of the 1960s. The S/370s just
>do not have the same magic in their name.

I can agree with that about their influence. IBM had the marketing
horsepower and exposure to put them in many banks, insurance companies,
factories, etc. more so than say, Buroughs, CDC and any of the other big
names of the day. Computers back then were a BIG and Important Investment
to a company. IBM made sure everyone got that feeling through their marketing.

Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine?

>
>> Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-(  (It's a CMOS
>> version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't
>> tinker with hardware much at all, etc.  Pah!
>
>Even the last of the machines tagged "System/370" started to lose their
>panels. By the time the 3033 and 4331 came out (mid to late 1970s), the
>panels were gone. IBM used the same cabinets until recently switching over
>to the black and red (very sharp looking) S/390s.
>
>S/370 panels are amazing. Unlike the S/360 panels, they are black with all
>sorts of color coding, and liberal use of the hexadecimal knobs for
>setting the registers.
>
>I would like to find a picture of any old S/370 on the Web, but I have not
>come accross one yet.

Interesting that there is no pics to be found so far. I recall seeing the
S/370 console at the Deutsches Museum in Munich several years ago. It was
amazing indeed at least for that model, to see such a neat operating panel.
Wish I had taken some detailed photos of it then I could have someone scan
and post them for everyone to see. 

Anyone have any sales/marketing brochures out there who could scan some
good example photos of S/370's? 
>
>> Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
>
>Lets give Chris a big hand for being an Auction helper at the Antique
>Wireless Association meet in Rochester, NY just a few weeks ago. He did
>not drop too many things.

Thanks! I do worry about handling those $750-$1k DeForest Audions that come
through. We've done the auction for many, many years as you may know (how
long have you been an AWA member?). I've helped for at least 18 years I
think. Usually it's myself, Lauren Peckham and his son, David, who are up
there every year and several other old stand-bys in the "sold" area to the
right. Thank God we usually have light weight equipment compared to classic
computers!! However, a few Radiola 60's and the like come through
occasionally and they can get real heavy _real_fast_! The three '30's and
early 40's console radios and the early TV were auctioned while just
setting in place as you saw. 

I was kinda sick for most of the day from total exhaustion or more likely
burn-out while working at the conference. I wasn't my usual wise-cracking
self with Lauren and Dave. I had to sit behind the platform for about 15
minutes around 2 PM as I was about to literally drop. That recharged my
batteries, so to speak, and was able to perk me up enough to continue
helping. We had, IIRC, 620 individual lots with a huge number of vacuum
tube lots this year. Quite a few paper lots too. IIRC, $62,400 or so was
sold during the 8 hour duration. New record amounts both in lot quantity
and money. I got a few rather nice items for my collection including a
Crosley 50A Two-step Amplifier with brass-base tipped '01A's for only $150
and a real early version of the Crosley ACE Type V (wooden book condensor,
ceramic tube socket, cylindrical tickler coil) for $130. Somebody was
sleeping on those rather rare items :-) I like Crosleys since they're quite
interesting and SMALL doggone it! It was great to just relax on Saturday AM
and listen to the technical talks.


If any of us get involved with a computer collecting club or association
like the AWA is to Electronic Communications and that club or assoc. begins
to have an equipment auction, and I get involved with helping run the
auction, please haul me away to get my head examined! I'm staying HOME!!!
:-)  Imagine lugging around Cromemco, CompuPro or other loaded S100
systems, or DEC RL02 drives, or IBM DASD units during an auction. Those are
truly comparative boatanchors like an RAL-7 or R-390 (old military radios
for the unwashed out there) but we sure love 'em, don't we! ;)

I did not see you. Should have come up to me and introduced yourself.

>
>William Donzelli
>william@ans.net
> 

Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From cfandt at servtech.com  Mon Sep 21 20:45:47 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <1998Sep21.114735.1767.140226@smtp.itgonline.com>
Message-ID: <199809220145.BAA01747@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 11:48 21-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> How many DeForest double wing audions did Chris drop? Did they bounce 
> or shatter?

None, I'm happy to say, were dropped Marty! Never happened (said while
knocking on wood.) Only one came through the auction this year. I can't
recall for sure but it sold for about $500 I think (have to check the
Auction Results in ARC or the OTB). This one was a single wing (IIRC) and
seemed to have been 'repaired' as the neck of the tube just above the base
was unusually long and there was evidence of irregularities in that area of
the envelope where the two sections were welded together. That's what
Lauren and his son figured (Lauren Peckham, as you might know, is one of
the three or four foremost historians on early vacuum tubes around today.)
Filament was broken in it too. 

> 
> Marty  
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
>Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
>Date:    9/21/98 11:16 AM
>
>
> > Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage,
> > there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you
>though.
> 
> 
> 
> I think is simply the prestige of the S/360s. After all, they are probably 
> the single most influential computer family of the 1960s. The S/370s just 
> do not have the same magic in their name.
> 
> > Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-(  (It's a
CMOS 
> > version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't
> > tinker with hardware much at all, etc.  Pah!
> 
> Even the last of the machines tagged "System/370" started to lose their 
> panels. By the time the 3033 and 4331 came out (mid to late 1970s), the 
> panels were gone. IBM used the same cabinets until recently switching over 
> to the black and red (very sharp looking) S/390s.
> 
> S/370 panels are amazing. Unlike the S/360 panels, they are black with all 
> sorts of color coding, and liberal use of the hexadecimal knobs for 
> setting the registers.
> 
> I would like to find a picture of any old S/370 on the Web, but I have not 
> come accross one yet.
> 
> > Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
> 
> Lets give Chris a big hand for being an Auction helper at the Antique 
> Wireless Association meet in Rochester, NY just a few weeks ago. He did 
> not drop too many things.
> 
> William Donzelli
> william@ans.net
>
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 20:46:58 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921183128.4082B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921204327.12166D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> I'm sorry, but sneakers I can not understand.  Computers, yes.  Beanie
> babies, maybe.  Sneakers??

Well, it's sneakers and blue jeans, actually.  Some rich cultures which
will remain anonymous are obsessed by American clothes.  Whatever diddles
your bits, I say. 

-- Doug



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Mon Sep 21 21:02:49 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Computer shoppers headed for dumpster!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921204327.12166D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980921185952.2785A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Don't really know why I kept these but they are headed for the paper
recycler unless anybody in the Beaverton Oregon area decides they want
these.  It is a fairly complete collection from 1986 -> 1994.

George 

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com



From eric at brouhaha.com  Mon Sep 21 20:57:34 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980922015734.2482.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> Well, I doubt if a DECsystem 10 would be larger than the collection I 
> already have. So I would have thought it wouldn't be impossible to run 
> one personally.. Ditto for the other machines...

Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can assure you that storing
it is only a small portion of the problem.  Powering it and cooling it are
very problematic.  It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at over 35A).  And
guess what it does with all those kilowatts?  It does any amazingly good
job at turning them almost entirely into heat.  People have joked about
using it to heat my home in the winter, but in actuallity I'd have to keep
the air conditioner running.

Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is more practical.

And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
PDP-10 :-)

Cheers,
Eric


From manney at lrbcg.com  Mon Sep 21 20:59:08 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
Message-ID: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>

An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
_some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).

What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?

Thanks,
manney



From marvin at rain.org  Mon Sep 21 21:36:35 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Tandy 600 questions
References: <199809220106.SAA10191@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <36070D33.3312C9C5@rain.org>

Tom Owad wrote:
> 
> I purchased a Tandy 600 at the York Hamfest on Sunday.  The unit doesn't
> seem to work - the screen fills up with garbage (just alternating pixels,
> about 75% black).  Anybody know what could cause this?

I had a similar problem with one someone had brought me to see if I could
get it working.  It ended up working, but (and I *hate* this) the reason why
was and is unclear.  What I did was to diassemble it and check out the
backup battery and the power to the board: both were okay.  The thing that
finally got it working was when I removed the keyboard connector (probably
under power) and put it back.  I don't remember the thought processes (no
comments please!) that caused be to try it.  It happened again when the
backup battery went dead and again, I was able to bring it back to life.  I
might add that I did have the power supply connected and plugged in when I
did this.


> I'm trying to take the unit apart so I can look at it, but its not
> opening up very easily.  Are there screws under the four rubber feet on
> the bottom?  They're in so good I'd have to tear them apart to get them
> out, which I hate to do unless I know there are actually screws under it.

IIRC, the case has some tabs that hold it together, and after removing the
obvious screws, the thing can be gotten apart with some gentle prying.  Good
luck.


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep 21 21:34:07 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Tandy 600 questions
Message-ID: <199809220242.WAA12952@gate.usaor.net>

Don't take apart.  The only time you should have to do this is when you
need to replace the battery pack.  Here's what you should do:

Perform a cold start.

Before you perform a cold start, be sure the RAM Memory switch on the 
bottom of the computer is ON. Then, briefly press the [BKSP], [ALT], 
[LABEL], and [POWER] keys at the same time. Release the [POWER] key
first, then the others.  All data files stored in memory are erased, and
the System Manager screen appears.

If this doesn't work, turn off the RAM switch, and try everything again
after a minute.  Just remember to turn the RAM switch back on before you
do.

GooD LucK,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Tom Owad <tomowad@earthlink.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Tandy 600 questions
> Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 9:06 PM
> 
> I purchased a Tandy 600 at the York Hamfest on Sunday.  The unit doesn't 
> seem to work - the screen fills up with garbage (just alternating pixels,

> about 75% black).  Anybody know what could cause this?
> 
> I'm trying to take the unit apart so I can look at it, but its not 
> opening up very easily.  Are there screws under the four rubber feet on 
> the bottom?  They're in so good I'd have to tear them apart to get them 
> out, which I hate to do unless I know there are actually screws under it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tom Owad
> 
> --
> Sysop of Caesarville Online
> Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
> 


From cad at gamewood.net  Mon Sep 21 21:34:32 1998
From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <36070CB8.56C5@gamewood.net>

PG Manney wrote:
> 
> An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
> _some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
> 
> What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?
> 
> Thanks,
> manney

Hi manny:

GOO GONE should do the trick. Lately it seems to be available at most
hardware, and even grocery stores.

Chuck


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 21 22:30:23 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980921223023.50bfb7aa@intellistar.net>

I use denatured alcohol and/or Goo-Gone.  It works faster if you heat the
object first.

  Joe

At 09:59 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
>_some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
>
>What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?
>
>Thanks,
>manney
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 21 22:33:08 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)
In-Reply-To: <199809220145.BAA01744@cyber2.servtech.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.n et>
 <199809211438.OAA21109@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980921223308.4fbf2848@intellistar.net>

At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine?
>

  Yeah,  I learned to program on one.  Many years later I worked on them.

   Joe




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 21 22:00:46 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980921230046.19d@trailing-edge.com>

>Not a silly question in the least.  Sort of falls in the "now why didn't I
>think of that" catagory!  In all cases except 1 DS1 was jumpered, on the
>one exception, nothing is jumpered.  Set it to DS2, no luck, set it to DS3
>and it works.  Thanks!

This falls into the category of "my 11/73's line time clock quit
working" :-).  *Extremely* common problem, extremely simple answer!

>Next question, does anyone happen to have the list of correct answers to
>give the formating program written down anywhere?  Yes, I'm lazy enough not
>to want to have to figure that out.

Roger Ivie posted the following many, many years ago.  It's for the RD51,
not the RD52, but it should get you started.  One tiny note: Roger
didn't figure out the Media ID scheme, but if you look at the source
code to my DUSTAT utility (i.e. take a look at:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/dustat/dustat.mac
) and look at my comments there about how the media type code is
represented.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


I've come across the notes I used to format an RD51 (that's a 10MB disk,
folks) on a VS2000. When I was done, I was able to mount the disk under
VMS. Here's what my notes say:

An XBN is a block containing geometry info for the drive.

DBNs are the blocks between the XBN and the end of the cylinder; essentially,
the first cylinder of the drive is reserved to contain geometry info, but
not all of the blocks in the cylinder may be used. DBNs fill out the
first cylinder after all the XBNs are filled in.

LBNs are blocks containing user data.

RBNs are replacement blocks.

RCTSIZ appears to be the size of the replacement block table in blocks, but
I have a ? after my note on that one.

RCTNBR appears to be the number of copies of the RCT on the disk, again I've
makred that with a ?.

Here were my answers to the questions for the RD51. The RD51 has 305 cylinders
and 4 heads. I'm pretty certain the VS2000 and RQDX3 use 17 sectors/track (the
RQDX2 used 18 sectors/track; reformatting a disk with an RQDX3 drops its
capacity slightly):

XBNSIZ: 54      I used 54 because all the info I've seen for other drives
                used 54.
DBNSIZ: 14      A cylinder on the RD51 has 68 blocks. After the 54 XBN
                blocks are allocated, 14 blocks are left in the cylinder.
LBNSIZ: 20000   I just winged this one. You should be able to twiddle this
                up or down by playing with the replacement blocks.
RBNSIZ: 168     I think I picked this because that's what an RD52 uses, but
                I don't remember.
SURPUN: 4       The RD51 has four heads.
CYLPUN: 305     The RD51 has 305 cylinders.
WRTPRC: 305     I don't remember where write precomp is supposed to be turned
                on for the RD51, so I turned it off for the whole drive. This
                should be the cylinder number where write precomp starts.
RCTSIZ: 4       Again, taken from the RD52
RCTNBR: 8       Again, taken from the RD52
SECITL: 1       Sectors should be number 1 through 17 instead of 0 through 16.
STSSKW: 2       Head-to-head skew in sectors. The RD52 also uses 2.
CTCSKW: 14      Cylinder-to-cylinder skew in sectors. I don't remember why I
                picked 14; some experimentation should let you figure out what
                to use here.
MEDIAI: 627327027 I'm pretty sure I looked in the source listings to see what
                the driver was expecting for an RD51. Short of doing that,
                I don't know what else to do here. I don't know if this
                number is really critical for antyhing; the driver should use
                the XBNs to get the geometry information instead of depending
                on the media ID to look it up.



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 21 22:02:33 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <980921230233.19d@trailing-edge.com>

>You people thought you were weird.  Would you believe there's an article
>in the Wall Street Journal today about people who collect (and pay
>outrageous eBay sums for)--get this---old sneakers?

You know what I always wanted?  A shoe phone.  And with today's technology,
it'd be easy to do.  (I'd have to learn some about shoe repair, but I
wouldn't mind.)  Put that together with my cone of silence, and...

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 21 23:09:31 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:47 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921183128.4082B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <v0401170bb22cd2bce44a@[207.220.32.115]>

>You people thought you were weird.  Would you believe there's an article
>in the Wall Street Journal today about people who collect (and pay
>outrageous eBay sums for)--get this---old sneakers?
>
>A pair of some Nike something-or-others sold for $2,300 on ebay, and some
>fetch up to $5,000.  And we thought all the money was in Altairs.
>
>I'm sorry, but sneakers I can not understand.  Computers, yes.  Beanie
>babies, maybe.  Sneakers??

They sell them to the Japanese.  There is a totally ridiculous market in
Japan for them.  I've seen reports on TV where people go trolling at the
local Goodwill looking for Tennis shoes, and the "right" blue jeans.  Some
people actually make thier living buying these things and shipping them to
Japan.  In Japan they are they are fashionable.

Personally the only shoes I'll wear are ones that I buy new!

				Zane



>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
>dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 21 22:18:36 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
In-Reply-To: <980921230233.19d@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980921221632.16387A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:

> You know what I always wanted?  A shoe phone.  And with today's technology,
> it'd be easy to do.  (I'd have to learn some about shoe repair, but I
> wouldn't mind.)  Put that together with my cone of silence, and...

Good idea, Max.  Let me be the first one to call you next time you use a
public restroom.  Stick with the Dick Tracy wrist-radio, will ya?

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Mon Sep 21 22:36:29 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <36071B3C.EC42712D@bbtel.com>

PG Manney wrote:

> An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
> _some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
>
> What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?
>

Lighter fluid (benzine) or denatured alcohol. Some glues work ok with the
alcohol, some with the lighter fluid. Some are even water based but not likely
on mailing labels. The goo is similar to rubber cement and benzine is the
solvent in rubber cement.



From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep 21 22:29:51 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <199809220337.XAA23073@gate.usaor.net>

Hey, You never know when you'll be put up against the forces of CHAOS, Max.
:-)
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: RE: Shoe collectors?
> Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 11:02 PM
>
> You know what I always wanted?  A shoe phone.  And with today's
technology,
> it'd be easy to do.  (I'd have to learn some about shoe repair, but I
> wouldn't mind.)  Put that together with my cone of silence, and...
> 
> -- 
>  Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
>  Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
>  7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
>  Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 22 00:10:31 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <980921230046.19d@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <v0401170eb22cdc1f19be@[207.220.32.115]>

>Roger Ivie posted the following many, many years ago.  It's for the RD51,
>not the RD52, but it should get you started.  One tiny note: Roger
>didn't figure out the Media ID scheme, but if you look at the source
>code to my DUSTAT utility (i.e. take a look at:
>http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/dustat/d
>ustat.mac
>) and look at my comments there about how the media type code is
>represented.

I'd already found the procedure from Roger Ivie, which was why I'd hoped
someone had already figured it out.  Especially since the only stats I've
found on the disk aren't that informative.

However, I just realized, I am trying to make this overly difficult.  I'm
wanting to use these drives on PDP-11's which means they need to be
formated on one.  So the question I should really be asking is how to get
them formated on a RQDX3 that's in a PDP-11.  The reason for trying to
format them on the VS2000 was just to make sure they worked (and for some
reason I was thinking it was a good idea, go figure).

Ah, well at least I know that at least one seems to be good.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From jon at techniche.com  Mon Sep 21 23:13:26 1998
From: jon at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
Message-ID: <199809220413.AAA23604@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi Manney,

I frequently buy books that are discounted or second hand.  
These always have annoying old labels on them that are
a pain to remove.  And my goal is to save the books cover
at the same time (typically these are the glossy style covers
that are popular for computer books these days).

What I do is remove the majority of the "gunk" either with
my fingernail or carefully with a pocket knife and then
I use something with a sticky backing to  remove the
rest.  The material with a sticky backing might be the
label I just  removed or scotch tape or a new label I've
peeled off of some junk mail.  You take that stickey
material and repeatedly (like 50-60 times), stick it
on the gunk and then peel it off again. 

This is incredibly tedious, but it works like a charm.
You end up with a perfectly clean surface with no damage
done during the cleaning.   This may not work for you
epson since you may not be able to reach all the places
where there is gunk.  But give it a try.

Jon

>An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
>_some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
>
>What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?
>
>Thanks,
>manney
>
>



From mbg at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 23:23:06 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
References: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809220423.AA09163@world.std.com>


>Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can assure you that
>storing it is only a small portion of the problem.  Powering it and
>cooling it are very problematic.  It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at
>over 35A).  And guess what it does with all those kilowatts?  It does any
>amazingly good job at turning them almost entirely into heat.  People
>have joked about using it to heat my home in the winter, but in
>actuallity I'd have to keep the air conditioner running.

That's why I'm looking to get a KS10...

>Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is more practical.

>And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
>PDP-10 :-)

Oh really?  And how would you know that?

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

p.s. I'm working on an emulator, and have actually had it running some
     instructions to test it.  On a P90 system, I'm getting about KA
     speed...  LOTS of work to go yet, so don't get your hopes up...



From mbg at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 23:28:38 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <199809220428.AA11622@world.std.com>


>However, I just realized, I am trying to make this overly difficult.  I'm
>wanting to use these drives on PDP-11's which means they need to be
>formated on one.  So the question I should really be asking is how to get
>them formated on a RQDX3 that's in a PDP-11.  The reason for trying to
>format them on the VS2000 was just to make sure they worked (and for some
>reason I was thinking it was a good idea, go figure).

Then what you want is the XXDP+ kit, and the ZRQC formatter.

>Ah, well at least I know that at least one seems to be good.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From sethm at loomcom.com  Mon Sep 21 23:34:59 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
Message-ID: <199809220434.VAA05865@loomcom.com>

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From mbg at world.std.com  Mon Sep 21 23:41:15 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: DECmates up for grabs - contact original poster
Message-ID: <199809220441.AA17892@world.std.com>


>Xref: world comp.sys.dec.micro:8719
>Path: world!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>From: whoagiii@aol.com (WHoagIII)
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
>Subject: Re: Looking for WPS-Plus DOS and DECmates
>Lines: 9
>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
>X-Admin: news@aol.com
>Date: 21 Sep 1998 18:15:47 GMT
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>References: <6tbn9i$8gt8$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>
>Message-ID: <19980921141547.20548.00002820@ng119.aol.com>


I have several decmate IIs and IIIs that are going to be scrapped. I would be
happy to sell one or all. $20 each plus shipping. I have 4 or 5 IIIs and a
couple of IIs I think.
I am in Portland, Oregon
Thnks,
Paxton Hoag
whoagiii@aol.com
WhoagIII@aol.com


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 21 23:42:12 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 02:27 AM 22-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:

>Well, I doubt if a DECsystem 10 would be larger than the collection I 
>already have. So I would have thought it wouldn't be impossible to run 
>one personally.. Ditto for the other machines...

It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10 that getting one to run
(even when new) required a full time field service engineer and with age
(our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still here it'd be 25 years
old) I'd expect the probability of it running would be close to zero. The
maintenance fiche is about a foot deep....

>True. The ideal situation would be for madmen like ourselves to continue 
>preserving the real machines _and_ for simulators to be available.

Couldn't agree more, which is why you find a PDP-8A in my office although I
prefer the DECmate-II for home (less noisy if nothing else :-)

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 21 23:45:30 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <19980922015734.2482.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
 <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809220445.OAA21691@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 01:57 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:

>Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can assure you that storing
>it is only a small portion of the problem.  

Indeedy. Our air conditioning plant was designed to cool one DECsystem-10
and it has been modified a couple of times as we replaced it with only five
or six largish VAXes and the cold deck kept freezing (even on 40C summer
days)...

>Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is more practical.
>
>And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
>PDP-10 :-)

I guess this is a copy of the unobtainable -10 simulator? How does it model
disks etc?

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 00:06:27 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921220536.13368H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, PG Manney wrote:

> An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
> _some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
> 
> What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?

Any citrus-based solvent.  I use stuff called "A Touch of Orange".  This
is better than that stuff you get from the hardware store called "Goo-off"
or what not.  Also, enough rubbing alcohol will take just about anything
off.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 00:21:00 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <199809220413.AAA23604@chmls05.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921221649.13368K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Jon Healey wrote:

> This is incredibly tedious, but it works like a charm.
> You end up with a perfectly clean surface with no damage
> done during the cleaning.   This may not work for you
> epson since you may not be able to reach all the places
> where there is gunk.  But give it a try.

50-60 times?  "Tedious" doesn't even begin to describe this.

Order yourself up a bottle of "Touch of Oranges".  Squirt a little on a
paper towel or rag and rub it over the gunk.  In a few seconds it'll do
away with it all, and will leave the surface if the (glossy) book cover or
software box untarnished.  Just don't spray it directly onto the cover
unless its glossy and unless there are no cracks in the gloss.  If the
solution seeps in it will mark the paper with an ugly stain.

Touch of Oranges
Ivus Marketing
PO Box 2210
Cottonwood, CA 96022
800/867.2643

I swear by it.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 00:27:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
In-Reply-To: <199809220434.VAA05865@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921222153.13368L-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:

> I'm finally getting ready to tackle my Imsai 8080 restoration.  There's
> actually very little involved except cleaning, and bringing up the
> power supply.  EXCEPT:  The PS transformer is very badly rusted.  Oddly,
> the paper wrapping looks fairly OK, it's just the metal core which is
> covered in a lovely, crusty layer of rust.

The one I'm working on was fairly rusty as well.  I simply used a steel
brush to take as much off as I could.  Otherwise, the rust doesn't harm
anything (unless its eaten half the core away or something).  There's also
stuff you can buy at the hardware store to dissolve rust.  I was thinking
about using it but didn't bother as the steel brush did a decent enough
job.  Its still brown but it adds character.

> Is there a way to recover this transformer and bring it back to life?
> It could be replaced by a modern equivalent, but I'd much rather save
> the original -if possible-.
> 
> By the way, the recent discussions about using a light bulb in series
> with the power supply has helped tremendously -- I had no idea where
> I was going to find a Variac; at least, not a cheap one.

Yeah, it worked fine for me.  I used a fifteen watt bulb and ran it for
over 4 hours.  I bought a light socket that has two prongs on the end so
you can stick it in the wall.  I bought some heavy duty alligator clips. 
I soldered two clips to each end of some electrical wire (stranded, same
guage as an electrical cord for a lamp).  I made two of these.  I then
desoldered one side of the power line in the IMSAI.  I clipped one of my
wires to the desoldered line.  I clipped the other end to one prong on the
bulb socket.  I soldered a temporary wire into the hole where the
power line I de-soldered went.  I clipped the other wire to the end of
this wire.  I then clipped the other end to the other prong on the socket.

Your power supply may make this whole process much easier for you.  This
wasn't so bad as it is.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 00:31:46 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> (message from
	Huw Davies on Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:42:12 +1000)
References: <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <19980922053146.3515.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
> It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10 that getting one to run
> (even when new) required a full time field service engineer

As I recall, the 2060 I used to use ran for months at a time without needing
repair (i.e., just scheduled PM).

> (our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still here it'd be 25 years
> old)

Must have been a KI, then.  I'm told that those were relatively easy to keep
running (at least compared to the KL).

> I'd expect the probability of it running would be close to zero. The
> maintenance fiche is about a foot deep....

A former DEC field service engineer has told me that I'm a madman for wanting
to try, but he didn't put the probability anywhere near that low.  The
system was in perfect working order when it was decommissioned, and not
much has happened to it since.  Aside from testing the power supplies and
checking for oxidation on the connectors, I'm not really expecting that
much to be wrong with it.  And I think I know where to find spare modules
if it is necessary.

Cheers,
Eric



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 00:37:23 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809220445.OAA21691@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> (message from
	Huw Davies on Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:45:30 +1000)
References: <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
 <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1> <199809220445.OAA21691@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <19980922053723.3568.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:
> And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
> PDP-10 :-)

Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
> I guess this is a copy of the unobtainable -10 simulator?

It can't be too unobtainable, since I got a copy.  It's not the KLH
simulator, if that's what you're thinking.  It's Stu Grossman's kx10.

> How does it model disks etc?

It simulates RP06 drives attached to an RH20 massbus channel, as would
be configured on a DECsystem-109x or a KL10-based DECSYSTEM-20.

It also simulates an NI20 (or is it NIA20?  I've seen it both ways.)
Ethernet interface, using the BPF to assign a separate Ethernet MAC
address.  It's nice being able to telnet into TOPS-20 again.

I haven't been in touch with Stu for a while; I don't know whether he
is getting any closer to releasing it.

Cheers,
Eric


From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Tue Sep 22 01:41:12 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Decomposing Books (was: Re: Books for DEC-heads)
In-Reply-To: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980922022356.21030A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:

> > Lucky me.  I went home with a box of old DEC paperbacks today.  A nice
> > assortment of PDP-8, PDP-11 and VAX titles.  I don't do DEC (I remember
> > cherishing the honor of powering-down our development VAXen for the last
> > time), but the books are small, so I plan to get them all signed by Gordon
> > Bell at VCF next weekend and stash them away for 100 years or so.
> 
> They won't last more than 20 years, sorry :)

Ack!  Something else to worry about!

> Seriously, all the DEC processor and programming paperbacks I've come
> accross are printed on highly acidic paper, almost newsprint quality.

I actually have a couple of DEC paperbacks (lucky me) and both are indeed
in bad shape.  The paper is very yellow.

> They can be de-acidified, if it's not too late.  Check by gently
> folding back a small corner of one of the pages, then folding it back
> the other way; if it snaps off, the book is too far gone to be saved.
> If it stays attached, there's hope.

I can't get to my "Introduction to Programming" book from the PDP-8
handbook series right now (which is in really sad shape paperwise), but
I've just checked my "decsystem10 mathematical languages handbook", and it
still passes the test.  It smells funny, though, and I don't think the 
smell is cigarette smoke.

(And on the cigarette smoke front, I'm happy to report that my Amiga
Hardware Reference Manual and RKM: Exec manual no longer send out a
suffocating stench of tobacco when I flip the pages!  I guess it must have
been humid this summer.)

I also have other historical documents that are in similar condition to
the DEC books (most notably volumes 1, 3, 5, 6, and 7 of Ernesto Che
Guevara's "Escritos y discursos" which I still haven't read because I
don't speak Spanish).  As a result, I would be very interested in hearing
if anyone has success in deacidifying books.

> Check out Doug Jones's excellent page about bookbinding and preserving
> old paperbacks at http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/book/index.html

This page itself deals with photocopying and binding mainly, but there are
some excellent links from this page which deal with deacidification.  I
like the look of Paprican's Dry Deacidification Method... it looks like
something I might be able to manage on my own if I can locate the
materials.  I'll have to look at some of the other processes as well.

> -Seth


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep 22 02:29:45 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Decomposing Books (was: Re: Books for DEC-heads)
References: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980922022356.21030A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <360751E9.18102CCF@cnct.com>

Doug Spence wrote:

> (And on the cigarette smoke front, I'm happy to report that my Amiga
> Hardware Reference Manual and RKM: Exec manual no longer send out a
> suffocating stench of tobacco when I flip the pages!  I guess it must have
> been humid this summer.)

Some of us _like_ the smell of cigarette smoke -- it's a clue that at
one point somebody actually read the book instead of using it as a 
static display.  All of my books smell of cigarette smoke, so do all
of my computers.

> I also have other historical documents that are in similar condition to
> the DEC books (most notably volumes 1, 3, 5, 6, and 7 of Ernesto Che
> Guevara's "Escritos y discursos" which I still haven't read because I
> don't speak Spanish).  As a result, I would be very interested in hearing
> if anyone has success in deacidifying books.

It isn't necessary to speak a language to read it.  I don't speak
Spanish (unless I drop a brick on my foot -- then I speak the street
Mexican I learned growing up in LA), French, German or Latin --
but I read them with occasional glances at dictionaries.

> > Check out Doug Jones's excellent page about bookbinding and preserving
> > old paperbacks at http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/book/index.html
> 
> This page itself deals with photocopying and binding mainly, but there are
> some excellent links from this page which deal with deacidification.  I
> like the look of Paprican's Dry Deacidification Method... it looks like
> something I might be able to manage on my own if I can locate the
> materials.  I'll have to look at some of the other processes as well.

You'll find some of the best resources at comic book shops.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From WHoagIII at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 03:47:12 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <7936c023.36076410@aol.com>

There is a Shoe phone out there in the marketplace, I have seen one. The shoe
phone is over 10 years old so It is not too far off topic.

The population of collectors is growing by leaps and bounds. The internet
revolution is making it much easier to get together and form community. I too
am amazed at what collectors collect. 

Paxton


From WHoagIII at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 03:53:39 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
Message-ID: <be971fe7.36076593@aol.com>

Joe, what is Goo-Gone and where do you get it.
Paxton


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 03:54:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
In-Reply-To: <7936c023.36076410@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922015351.18452E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> The population of collectors is growing by leaps and bounds. The internet
> revolution is making it much easier to get together and form community. I too
> am amazed at what collectors collect. 

I'm appalled at what some collectors collect.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 04:18:43 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <e880cea5.36076b73@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-22 04:56:58 EDT, you write:

<< I'm appalled at what some collectors collect. >>

I suspect that the Shoe collectors would be appalled at what you collect. It
is this diversity of people that make the world interesting. I am attracted to
the idea of collecting mainframes, my signifigant other is appalled at that
attraction. I had a Litton 1251 in my living room when we met 19 years ago. I
mention this so we would be on topic for the list.  400K of drum memory, a
very interesting machine.

Paxton


From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 07:50:47 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: off topic  for nerdware
Message-ID: <199809221250.AA04446@world.std.com>

<    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
< ... while talking to po.laidbak.com.:
< >>> MAIL From:<allisonp@world.std.com>
< <<< 550 Access denied
< 554 <nerdware@laidbak.com>... Service unavailable


It's near impossible to discuss anything of your mailer is misconfigured
or broken.  Real address?

Allison



From cfandt at servtech.com  Tue Sep 22 07:54:19 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off
  topic))
In-Reply-To: <m0zLA0u-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <19980921020313.29511.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <199809221254.MAA09197@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 18:44 21-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
   --snip --
>And radio rallies (hamfests). Nowadays most such events in the UK have pile
>upon pile of motherboards, I/O cards, VGA cards, etc on sale. And very 
>few 'interesting' machines.

That's true in the States for sure as far as I have seen up here in the
Northeast. Lots of the stuff is just plain unidentifiable to the untrained
eye. Seems there's not that much good old ham gear and military surplus
gear anymore :(  The hamfests are overrun with computer related gear now
and not the computer gear I'm into (the non-typical home computer stuff,
i.e., commercial, business, industrial machines.)

I did see an AT/370 boardset about six or eight years ago at the Buffalo
Hamfest. Up to that time I had no clear idea what the heck it was. I saw a
Moto 68K CPU on it and my interest was piqued (I'm into Moto SBC's, OS-9
systems, etc.) The fellow who had the fleamarket space explained what it
was but at that time I was not into collecting classic computer hardware. I
wasn't sure of its condition as it was amongst the heaps of PC boards piled
in his space and refused it ($20 asking price, I think.)  Oh well....

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Tue Sep 22 07:53:16 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <19980922015734.2482.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13389932002.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Simulated 10 is easier to deal with]

This is the point behind ka10.  I could never run a KL, I could try for a KS
but I have nowhere to put it either.  Therefore, simulation is my only
method of screwing with ITS (Eventually).
-------


From cfandt at servtech.com  Tue Sep 22 08:31:35 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <36070CB8.56C5@gamewood.net>
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <199809221331.NAA09788@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 22:34 21-09-98 -0400, Charles A Davis wrote:
>PG Manney wrote:
>> 
>> An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
>> _some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
>> 
>> What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> manney
>
>Hi manny:
>
>GOO GONE should do the trick. Lately it seems to be available at most
>hardware, and even grocery stores.
>
>Chuck
> 

Another good product to use for this is "De-Solv-it" Citrus Solution from
Orange-Sol Household Products. I like it better as it has no harsh solvents
but works a bit slower. Smells good too. We got ours either at WalMart or
KMart I think. Should be available in large grocery stores. I have no
association with that company; I just feel it is better because of it being
less likely to damage plastics or paint.

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From cfandt at servtech.com  Tue Sep 22 08:55:10 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off
  topic)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980921223308.4fbf2848@intellistar.net>
References: <199809220145.BAA01744@cyber2.servtech.com>
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921110102.13855C-100000@titan.purch.ans.n et>
Message-ID: <199809221355.NAA10088@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 22:33 21-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote:
>>
>>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine?
>>
>
>  Yeah,  I learned to program on one.  Many years later I worked on them.

That's where my interest lies as this was my first exposure to computing.
In college I learned Fortran IV/66 in 1972/73. I've always been curious
about those machines since then. Never heard of them anymore over the past
25 (!!) years. 

At least I can tell stories to the youngsters, like other "old time"
computer folks here, about spending hours in the noisy keypunch room on an
IBM 026 (I think) keypunch machine punching out my programs onto the
Hollerith cards, hauling the stack of cards (without dropping the danged
things!) over to the Computer Operator Guru to be run together in a batch
with all the other students' Fortran and Cobol programs overnite and coming
back the next morning to be greeted with several pages of compiler errors
typically generated by a very simple syntax error in the early part of my
program.  No fancy-a** GUI there!! :-)

That machine was "huge" by some standards then: it had 32K of core memory!
The technical faculty at this rather small junior college was quite
impressed. 

Ahhh, those were the days....  

Of course, I would LOVE to have one!  Anybody got one laying around they
want to get shed of?? <g!>

Have any technical/interesting facts or anecdotes about the 1130 to share
with us big iron folk Joe?

Thanks, Chris
-- --



Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep 22 09:27:54 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Decomposing Books (was: Re: Books for DEC-heads)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980922022356.21030A-100000@alcor.concordia.c
 a>
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc>


The discussions of Xeroxing and de-acidifying are interesting, but
I'd like to hear any experiences of preserving documents by
electronic means - scanning, OCRing, and tools for doing that,
problems encountered, workable means of viewing and reprinting, etc.

The guys at <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/frames.html> have
made an admirable effort.  They've converted a number of documents
to Adobe PDF format.  They're waiting on permission from DEC
to post some old docs - wasn't there a mention on this list recently
from someone who received permission to redistribute old docs?

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep 22 09:18:33 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <36071B3C.EC42712D@bbtel.com>
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980922091833.00c62cd0@pc>

>> What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?

An intriguing topic.  Short-term, computer pin-feed mailing labels
can be removed with a heat gun.  Use very light strokes, you just
want to warm the rubbery glue.  Long-term, I've found that the 
glue hardens to nasty stuff no longer dissolved in Goo-gone and
the like.  You need to chip it off.  The heat gun trick works with
old floppy disk labels, too.  Pulling very, very, very slowly
does the trick.  Aside from Goo-gone and other solvents, other people
have suggested using cooking oil, which here in the States tends
to mean corn oil.

- John



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 22 11:00:56 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <199809220428.AA11622@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <v04011701b22d77313674@[207.220.32.115]>

>>However, I just realized, I am trying to make this overly difficult.  I'm
>>wanting to use these drives on PDP-11's which means they need to be
>>formated on one.  So the question I should really be asking is how to get
>>them formated on a RQDX3 that's in a PDP-11.  The reason for trying to
>>format them on the VS2000 was just to make sure they worked (and for some
>>reason I was thinking it was a good idea, go figure).
>
>Then what you want is the XXDP+ kit, and the ZRQC formatter.
>
>					Megan Gentry
>					Former RT-11 Developer

I just checked the emulator images I've made of my XXDP+ packs.  The RL02 pack
has the ZRQC formater, the RL01 pack doesn't (big surprise it's from about
'79).  The next question is what is it expecting for input?  Obviously I
can't do anything while running under the emulator, but will be helpfull to
know for when I put a RLV11 or RLV12 in the 11/23 that has a RQDX3 but no
RDnn drives.  Hopefully I can get that done tonite after work.

BTW is there any problem with putting a RLV11 in a 22-bit system?

Here what happened when I ran ZRQCH0

.RUN ZRQCH0
ZRQCH0.BIN

DRSSM-G2
ZRQC-H-0
RQDX3 Disk Formatter Utility
UNIT IS Formattable Winchester (RDnn) or Floppy (RX33) Drives
RSTRT ADR 145702

DR>


So what does it want for input?  Don't know if this is a stupid question,
but am asking since I've never actually used XXDP+ and I didn't get any
documentation at all with the Packs, despite the fact that the rest had
related Docs.


				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 10:34:44 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980921220536.13368H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922103444.2f27d3ac@intellistar.net>

At 10:06 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote:
>is better than that stuff you get from the hardware store called "Goo-off"
>or what not.  Also, enough rubbing alcohol will take just about anything
>off.

  Be carefull using isopropyl or rubbing alcohol, I've found it discolors a
lot of paints and plastics.  I've found that denatured alcohol is safer.

   Joe




From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 10:41:56 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <be971fe7.36076593@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922104156.2f27b612@intellistar.net>

Paxton,

  It's a citrus based solvent and I bought mine at Home Depot.  It's
probably the same stuff that Sam and others call Goof Off or a Touch of
Citrus.  It works a lot faster it you heat the surface first and/or cover
the spot with tin foil after you apply the solvent.  The foil keeps it from
evaporating too fast.

   Joe

At 04:53 AM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Joe, what is Goo-Gone and where do you get it.
>Paxton
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 11:12:40 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980921223023.50bfb7aa@intellistar.net>
References: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922111240.2507f2d6@intellistar.net>

At 10:30 PM 9/21/98, you wrote:
>I use denatured alcohol and/or Goo-Gone.  It works faster if you heat the
>object first.

  I forgot to add that it works better if you cover the spot with tin foil
after you apply the Goo-Gone. The foil keeps it from evaporating as fast.
I wouldn't use Goo Gone on a paper surface such as a book.  It may stain
the surface.  I haven't found a good way to get stickers off of them yet.

   Joe



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 22 10:25:29 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980922112529.1d9@trailing-edge.com>

Zane asked:
>However, I just realized, I am trying to make this overly difficult.  I'm
>wanting to use these drives on PDP-11's which means they need to be
>formated on one.  So the question I should really be asking is how to get
>them formated on a RQDX3 that's in a PDP-11.  The reason for trying to
>format them on the VS2000 was just to make sure they worked (and for some
>reason I was thinking it was a good idea, go figure).

The VS2000 low-level format will be compatible with the RQDX3.  (The
VS2000 format isn't compatible with the RQDX1/2, though.)

Megan suggested:
>Then what you want is the XXDP+ kit, and the ZRQC formatter.

The ZRQC?? formatter will do the trick, too, but the VS2000 formatter
is far more convenient and robust.  I keep a VS2000 around for no
other purpose than formatting MFM disks when I have to.  Suggesting
that someone use ZRQC?? when they have a VS2000 available is like
suggesting that they learn how to fly an airplane rather than simply
using an airline ticket :-).

Zane asked about ZRQC??:
>So what does it want for input?  Don't know if this is a stupid question,
>but am asking since I've never actually used XXDP+ and I didn't get any
>documentation at all with the Packs, despite the fact that the rest had
>related Docs.

I'd go the VS2000 route myself, but if you insist on XXDP+ I can
fax you a couple pages out of the MicroPDP technical manuals that
will get you started.  If you thought the VS2000 prompts were
cryptic, you've never seen the ZRQC?? prompts :-).

Also, since nobody else has mentioned it, *none* of this stuff is any
great secret.  A lot of this is very well explained in Terry Kennedy's
collection of DECUSERVE conferences, THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT, available
by anonymous ftp from ftp.spc.edu.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From jim_willing at mail.intel.com  Tue Sep 22 10:40:30 1998
From: jim_willing at mail.intel.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: [Fwd: free PDP-11 in Dallas area]
Message-ID: <3607C4EE.446E@mail.intel.com>

A possible rescue in the Dallas, TX area.  Contact the original message
author for details.

-jim
-------------- next part --------------
Skipped content of type message/news
From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 11:28:18 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
  (Off  topic)
In-Reply-To: <199809221355.NAA10088@cyber2.servtech.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19980921223308.4fbf2848@intellistar.net>
 <199809220145.BAA01744@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922112818.3b9ff38e@intellistar.net>

Chris,

  I learned to program in APL on one in 1968 or 1969. We didn't have to use
punch cards, we were THE PROGRAMMERS, the machine was turned over to us
when we walked in the door. At that time it was the only computer in
central Florida. Not bad for a kid that was still in high school!

  Around 1979 I worked for a third party company in Virginia that
maintained 1130s and also upgraded them with third party hardware.  I well
remember adding boxs with core memory made by someone else (not IBM and not
us). I think it upgraded them to a whapping 32K!  One of the 1130s that I
upgraded was owned by Gallop in Princeton, NJ. They're the people that do
the Gallop polls.  Another one was owned by Virginia Military Institute in
Lexington, Va.

  Those machines seem to last forever, I'll bet there's still some of them
in use!

   Joe

At 09:55 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 22:33 21-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>>At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote:
>>>
>>>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine?
>>>
>>
>>  Yeah,  I learned to program on one.  Many years later I worked on them.
>
>That's where my interest lies as this was my first exposure to computing.
>In college I learned Fortran IV/66 in 1972/73. I've always been curious
>about those machines since then. Never heard of them anymore over the past
>25 (!!) years. 
>
>At least I can tell stories to the youngsters, like other "old time"
>computer folks here, about spending hours in the noisy keypunch room on an
>IBM 026 (I think) keypunch machine punching out my programs onto the
>Hollerith cards, hauling the stack of cards (without dropping the danged
>things!) over to the Computer Operator Guru to be run together in a batch
>with all the other students' Fortran and Cobol programs overnite and coming
>back the next morning to be greeted with several pages of compiler errors
>typically generated by a very simple syntax error in the early part of my
>program.  No fancy-a** GUI there!! :-)
>
>That machine was "huge" by some standards then: it had 32K of core memory!
>The technical faculty at this rather small junior college was quite
>impressed. 
>
>Ahhh, those were the days....  
>
>Of course, I would LOVE to have one!  Anybody got one laying around they
>want to get shed of?? <g!>
>
>Have any technical/interesting facts or anecdotes about the 1130 to share
>with us big iron folk Joe?
>
>Thanks, Chris
>-- --
>
>
>
>Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
>Jamestown, NY  USA  
>Member of Antique Wireless Association
>        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
>



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Mon Sep 21 23:04:09 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com> <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc>
Message-ID: <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com>

I saw that discussion about removing labels from books & hardware.
How about cosmetic smoke damage caused by Cigarette Smoke, and just
plain old yellowing plastic.
Has anyone been successful in removing this type of damage from old
computers.
--Phil



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep 22 11:10:45 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com> <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc> <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <3607CC03.2BAA02ED@bbtel.com>

Phil Clayton wrote:

> I saw that discussion about removing labels from books & hardware.
> How about cosmetic smoke damage caused by Cigarette Smoke, and just
> plain old yellowing plastic.
> Has anyone been successful in removing this type of damage from old
> computers.
> --Phil

Walmart sells a spray cleaner in a white spray (or gallon refill) called
Crown Cleaner. If the nicotine/tar is not embedded into the plastic
itself, then spray this on a let it sit a second. It will come right
off, no problem. To get rid of the sticky feeling afterwards just
reclean it with Windex or a damp sponge with plain water.

For the permanent stains, I disassemble and lightly sand the parts and
then tack rag them. I get the cheap stain finish paint that Walmart
sells (since it has toluene base and will soften into the plastic and
stay for good) and repaint the whole piece with the applicable paint.
They have a black, light grey, tan and off white that match the original
colors nearly to the T. I let them dry very well, usually overnight to
make sure that nothing has softened, and then wipe them down good with a
damp rag to get rid of the excess spray dust and then reassemble. I use
denatured alcohol to clean them prior to painting to make sure there
isn't any oily stuff left.

The paint hting is great if you have a cracked panel too. Reglue the
piece with super glue, fill with plastic filler (testor's for models)
and then sand until it's back to original finish. Then refinish like I
said above but be sure the item is clean (tack rag is best and very
cheap).

Hope this helps.



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep 22 11:17:15 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
References: <199809220434.VAA05865@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <3607CD8A.D6C7E5DE@bbtel.com>



sethm@loomcom.com wrote:

> Howdy folks,
>
> I'm finally getting ready to tackle my Imsai 8080 restoration.  There's
> actually very little involved except cleaning, and bringing up the
> power supply.  EXCEPT:  The PS transformer is very badly rusted.  Oddly,
> the paper wrapping looks fairly OK, it's just the metal core which is
> covered in a lovely, crusty layer of rust.
>
> Is there a way to recover this transformer and bring it back to life?
> It could be replaced by a modern equivalent, but I'd much rather save
> the original -if possible-.
>
> By the way, the recent discussions about using a light bulb in series
> with the power supply has helped tremendously -- I had no idea where
> I was going to find a Variac; at least, not a cheap one.
>

Steel wool ( the plain stuff without soap), wire brush (as Sam mentioned),
fine emery cloth, a number of things. Then mask where you don't want the
paint, hit it with a light coat or two of primer, wipe that after it's
totally dry, and hit it with a gloss black (or whatever color it was). If
the metal is badly pitted and you want that gone, use either filling primer
that you sand before the finish coat, or use body putty (not Bondo, a red
paste for filling minor flaws in a tube - one part).sand and wipe it off and
do the finish coat.Pull the masking tape before it's totally dry but at
least surface dry so the solvents don't leave the tape's adhesive behind.



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep 22 11:19:21 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
References: <be971fe7.36076593@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3607CE08.6DC9FF09@bbtel.com>

WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> Joe, what is Goo-Gone and where do you get it.

Googone can be bad on some plastics or finishes. It has some xylol based
chemicals and can damage a few things and dries rubber platens. Walmart,
hardware stores, etc have it but be really careful with it if you decide
to use it in leiu of common solvents like denatured alcohol.



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep 22 11:21:28 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
References: <199809220413.AAA23604@chmls05.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3607CE87.80CD6043@bbtel.com>



Jon Healey wrote:

> Hi Manney,
>
> I frequently buy books that are discounted or second hand.
> These always have annoying old labels on them that are
> a pain to remove.  And my goal is to save the books cover
> at the same time (typically these are the glossy style covers
> that are popular for computer books these days).
>
> What I do is remove the majority of the "gunk" either with
> my fingernail or carefully with a pocket knife and then
> I use something with a sticky backing to  remove the
> rest.  The material with a sticky backing might be the
> label I just  removed or scotch tape or a new label I've
> peeled off of some junk mail.  You take that stickey
> material and repeatedly (like 50-60 times), stick it
> on the gunk and then peel it off again.

I do the same with floppies but if the adhesive has dried to a hard finsih this
won't work until you soften it and then take it off with a fingernail or other
non cutting tool, like a sticker remover.



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 12:18:47 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <3607CC03.2BAA02ED@bbtel.com>
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com>
 <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922121847.43076e0a@intellistar.net>

At 11:10 AM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:

>For the permanent stains, I disassemble and lightly sand the parts and
>then tack rag them. I get the cheap stain finish paint that Walmart
>sells (since it has toluene base and will soften into the plastic and
>stay for good) and repaint the whole piece with the applicable paint.
>They have a black, light grey, tan and off white that match the original
>colors nearly to the T. I let them dry very well, usually overnight to
>make sure that nothing has softened, and then wipe them down good with a
>damp rag to get rid of the excess spray dust and then reassemble. I use
>denatured alcohol to clean them prior to painting to make sure there
>isn't any oily stuff left.
>

  Russ,

  That sounds like a great  idea for smooth surfaces but what about
surfaces that have a pebble finish?

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 12:26:16 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <3607CE08.6DC9FF09@bbtel.com>
References: <be971fe7.36076593@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922122616.3b3fa71c@intellistar.net>

At 11:19 AM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Joe, what is Goo-Gone and where do you get it.
>
>Googone can be bad on some plastics or finishes. It has some xylol based
>chemicals and can damage a few things and dries rubber platens. Walmart,
>hardware stores, etc have it but be really careful with it if you decide
>to use it in leiu of common solvents like denatured alcohol.

  Good advice.  I've never had a problem with Goo-Gone but I always try
denatured alcohol first.  ANY kind of solvent is rough on rubber. Try soap
and water with lots of elbow grease first.

    Joe



From blakeman at creative-net.net  Tue Sep 22 12:28:08 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Sorry, just a router test
Message-ID: <3607DE27.764210AC@creative-net.net>

I normally don't do this but I have suspicions. Thanks for ignoring this
message.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 12:33:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980922104156.2f27b612@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922103018.26410C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Joe wrote:

>   It's a citrus based solvent and I bought mine at Home Depot.  It's
> probably the same stuff that Sam and others call Goof Off or a Touch of
> Citrus.  It works a lot faster it you heat the surface first and/or cover
> the spot with tin foil after you apply the solvent.  The foil keeps it from
> evaporating too fast.

Touch of Oranges comes in a big bottle and is not caustic.  I don't
remember if Goof Off burns nose hairs, but I wasn't too impressed with it.
I probably wasn't using it right.  But Touch of Oranges won't harm
anything.  I leave it sitting on the worst goo for several minutes.  It
is completely harmless and smells nice too.  Its great for washing
petroleum based gunk off your hands too.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From emu at ecubics.com  Tue Sep 22 13:06:58 1998
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: q-bus finds ...
Message-ID: <19980922175204.AAA10227@emusp6>

Hi all,

I found some q-bus cards, i couldn't identify. Any help appreciated.

excelan exos 203 quad size (network ?)

eikonix 22 bit lsi-11 interface 821-141 , (two 50 pin connectors) (tape ?)

mercury computer systems, 4 quad size boards.
ap3216qb, bm3200qb, xm3200qb, cp3200qb (array processor ?)

thanks in advance,
emanuel


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Tue Sep 22 10:07:04 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980920223318.7294F-100000@crash.cts.com>
References: <v04011704b22b79e8231b@[207.220.32.173]>
Message-ID: <199809221843.OAA20383@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Don Maslin <donm@cts.com>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Strange Q-Bus Board, SCSI?

> On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> 
> > I got a bunch of Q-Bus and Unibus boards today, most of which are DEC, and
> > most of which I was able to identify.  One really caught my eye that I
> > can't identify however.
> > 
> > It's a Quad-Height board with a 50-pin connector on it  There is one chip
> > with a Model number on it "UTS25".  The board looks to be manufactured by
> > either MTI or MT, not sure which.  The one EPROM says "MTI-U/B A3.4".  It
> > has a Z80B CPU from SGS, and a Zilog Z0853606PSC chip.  However the chip
> > that really caught my eye was a WD33C93-PL.  Could this be a fabled SCSI
> > controller?  The WD chip is the same as an Amiga 3000's SCSI controller.
> 
> And is also incorporated in their old WD7000-ASC SCSI cards.

Ditto here, this is on my Always IN2000 card.  Very quick if done 
right and can do sync transfer pretty good.

Jason D.

> 
> 						 - don
>  
> > 			Zane
> > | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
> > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
> > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
> > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> > |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
> > |                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
> > |               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |
> > 
> 
>     donm@cts.com
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>     Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
>          Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
>        Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
>      Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
> *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
>         see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
>     visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
>    	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm
> 
> 
> 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From jhfine at idirect.com  Tue Sep 22 14:46:19 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
References: <v04011701b22d77313674@[207.220.32.115]>
Message-ID: <3607FE8B.C3217541@idirect.com>

>Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I just checked the emulator images I've made of my XXDP+ packs.  The RL02 pack
> has the ZRQC formater, the RL01 pack doesn't (big surprise it's from about
> '79).  The next question is what is it expecting for input?  Obviously I
> can't do anything while running under the emulator, but will be helpfull to
> know for when I put a RLV11 or RLV12 in the 11/23 that has a RQDX3 but no
> RDnn drives.  Hopefully I can get that done tonite after work.
>
> BTW is there any problem with putting a RLV11 in a 22-bit system?

Jerome Fine replies:

If you are talking about a BA23  (the bottom five slots)  OR  a  BA123
(the bottom 8 slots),

YOUR  WILL  PERMANENTLY  DAMAGE  THE  RLV11  IN  THAT
TYPE  OF  BACKPLANE.

I know, because I one did exactly that.  The dual RLV11 board set  MUST
BE  INSTALLED  IN  an  ABCD backplane which normally are only 18 bit.

> Here what happened when I ran ZRQCH0
>
> .RUN ZRQCH0
> ZRQCH0.BIN
>
> DRSSM-G2
> ZRQC-H-0
> RQDX3 Disk Formatter Utility
> UNIT IS Formattable Winchester (RDnn) or Floppy (RX33) Drives
> RSTRT ADR 145702
>
> DR>
>
> So what does it want for input?  Don't know if this is a stupid question,
> but am asking since I've never actually used XXDP+ and I didn't get any
> documentation at all with the Packs, despite the fact that the rest had
> related Docs.

It wants you to type START

If you get that far, then ask again.  But I must get this post to you ASAP
so you do not install an RLV11 dual board set in a BA23 (ABAB) portion
of the backplane.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict
Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications
(Sources not always required)



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 15:05:42 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Shoe collectors?
Message-ID: <19980922200542.15999.qmail@hotmail.com>





Think of its as nostalgia. Sure, you couldn't hook up an oscilloscope
to a sneaker and get meaningful results, but so what? People collect
coins and stamps, too. Another possibility is that these people are
using old sneakers to mask their odor :)
>> I'm sorry, but sneakers I can not understand.  Computers, yes.  
Beanie
>> babies, maybe.  Sneakers??
>
>Well, it's sneakers and blue jeans, actually.  Some rich cultures which
>will remain anonymous are obsessed by American clothes.  Whatever 
diddles
>your bits, I say. 
>
>-- Doug
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 22 15:10:30 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com> <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc> <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com> <3607CC03.2BAA02ED@bbtel.com>
Message-ID: <36080436.7B40@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
place (Not likely I can move them).. 
Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
also my collection...
I know by experiance that flooding is the worst part in this
area, so I will attempt to get all of them at least 2 foot
off the ground, but if it hits hard nothing I can do..
--Phil


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 22 15:31:35 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:48 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <199809222031.NAA17172@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>A simulator (in general) preserves one aspect of the machine - a platform 
>on which to run the original programs. What it doesn't preserve is any 
>feel of the hardware, any of the hardware techniques that were in use at 
>that time, the construction methods, etc.

Have you seen the Apple II emulator 'II in a Mac' for the 68000 Macs?  It 
placed the moitor, a keyboard, joystick, four floppy drives, printer, and 
a clock on the screen.  Then you could actually click on the keyboard's 
keys or move the joystick on the screen with the mouse.  A really neat 
interface which, IMHO, did a half decent job at preserving the hardware's 
feel.  It's a shame more emulators don't do such a good job at portraying 
the hardware.

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 15:37:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <36080436.7B40@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922133640.790F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
> over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
> place (Not likely I can move them).. 
> Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
> Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
> also my collection...

I know it would be rough, but do you have an attic you can haul them into?
Any barns in your area with an upstairs loft?  You might want to choose
the important ones and take care of them first.

GOOD LUCK!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Tue Sep 22 15:43:52 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809222031.NAA17172@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <13390017672.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Too bad emulators don't emulate hardware interfaces...]

Hmm...  ANyone got a decent description of the lights/switches on the
KA-10 frontpanel?  I could t
-------


From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com  Tue Sep 22 16:01:33 1998
From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <13390017672.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <199809222031.NAA17172@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <199809222055.NAA23063@mxu3.u.washington.edu>

We just to joke that Z80EMU on a Pentium was faster than any Z80 processor
you could actually buy, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible these days to
create a 38 pin I/O port and build an "ICE" in software...
--Chuck

At 01:43 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>[Too bad emulators don't emulate hardware interfaces...]
>
>Hmm...  ANyone got a decent description of the lights/switches on the
>KA-10 frontpanel?  I could t
>-------
> 


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 16:17:40 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <13390017672.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <13390017672.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <19980922211740.7447.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> wrote:
> Hmm...  ANyone got a decent description of the lights/switches on the
> KA-10 frontpanel?  I could t

The description is in the Processor Reference Manual.  Look at
	http://www.36bit.org/

There's a photo as well.  It wasn't very well reproduced in the manual,
and is unusable after being converted to bilevel.  I could make a greyscale
scan of it available if you can't find anything better.

Eric


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 22 16:28:15 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 22, 98 00:04:09 am
Message-ID: <199809222128.PAA11257@calico.litterbox.com>

> I saw that discussion about removing labels from books & hardware.
> How about cosmetic smoke damage caused by Cigarette Smoke, and just
> plain old yellowing plastic.
> Has anyone been successful in removing this type of damage from old
> computers.
> --Phil


If you can take the guts out of the computer conveniently, you can wash
and scrub the parts with soft scrub.  The yellow gunk from cigarette smoke
DOES come off.  (and as I pointed out to the smoker friend who sold me my
first GS, if your computer looks like this, imagine your lungs).

My GS still smells a bit of cigarette smoke - it's gotten into the power
supply and is still on the main board, and when things get warm it smells.
Still, it's cleaner and nicer than it was.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Tue Sep 22 12:44:33 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <199809222128.PAA11257@calico.litterbox.com>
References: <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 22, 98 00:04:09 am
Message-ID: <199809222120.RAA21745@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:28:15 -0600 (MDT)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke

Snip!

> 
> If you can take the guts out of the computer conveniently, you can wash
> and scrub the parts with soft scrub.  The yellow gunk from cigarette smoke
> DOES come off.  (and as I pointed out to the smoker friend who sold me my
> first GS, if your computer looks like this, imagine your lungs).
> 
> My GS still smells a bit of cigarette smoke - it's gotten into the power
> supply and is still on the main board, and when things get warm it smells.
> Still, it's cleaner and nicer than it was.

The point I wanted to find out is:

Is there a chemical that can be poured on or soak the boards in and 
just rinse off?  Not scrubbing!

Reason:

Components, IC's and especially those SMD's  and quads are very hard 
to clean to assure reliablity.

Cigerette smoke film are sticky and conductive to some degree!

Jason D.

> 
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep 22 16:43:20 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922133640.790F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980922143923.18162A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> > Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
> > over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
> > place (Not likely I can move them).. 
> > Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
> > Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
> > also my collection...
> 
> I know it would be rough, but do you have an attic you can haul them into?
> Any barns in your area with an upstairs loft?  You might want to choose
> the important ones and take care of them first.

Ummm... Sam, I don't know when the last time you were in a good howler of
a storm, but I don't know about the attic as a good place.  Gets REAL
unpleasant if the roof peels off.  And barns have real large, often flat
roofs!  (seen 'Twister' lately?  <G>)

Second floor maybe, out of the basement for sure...

> GOOD LUCK!

Seconded!

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From go at ao.com  Tue Sep 22 16:50:17 1998
From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809222055.NAA23063@mxu3.u.washington.edu>
References: <13390017672.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
 <199809222031.NAA17172@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <199809222152.OAA05609@office.ao.com>

I recently completed enough of a Control Data CDC-3300 / CDC-3500 simulator
that it's now capable of running an old timesharing system we used at
Oregon State up to 1980-something.  The simulator is fast enough (on a
Pentium 233, no less) that I actually found a race-condition bug in the
operating system.  Seemed that an interrupt was serviced "too quickly" and
caused a locking flag to get unset before the interrupt arming code could
get it set.  Bad programming practice, it turned out, but an event that
could "never happen" on the original machine.

This is an important consideration when you develop simulators for old
machines - if the beast is too fast you may find you can't run your trusty
old RSX / ITS / Kronos / etc.  It's a good idea (for complete legacy
compatibility) to have the ability to run the machine cycles as closely
as possible to those of the target machine configuration.  This is definitely
*not* trivial for most machine architectures, since the timing in
*hardware* can
hard to emulate in *software*.

But it *is* fun to see this OS run at 5 to 10 times the speed we saw on our
$3 million computer system - using a "cheap asian clone" pentium board.  The
whole computer costs little more than a few cases of line printer paper
for the original machine...

Of course, I would prefer to have the old 3300, but my garage ain't big
enough...  And it's a *lot* cheaper running this simulator on about $5
per month of electricty rather than $x thousand per month Oregon State paid!

Later,
Gary

At 02:01 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>We just to joke that Z80EMU on a Pentium was faster than any Z80 processor
>you could actually buy, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible these days to
>create a 38 pin I/O port and build an "ICE" in software...
>--Chuck
>
...snip..




From blakeman at creative-net.net  Tue Sep 22 16:54:38 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 22, 98 00:04:09 am <199809222120.RAA21745@commercial.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <36081C9D.6C6B89BB@creative-net.net>



jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:

> The point I wanted to find out is:
>
> Is there a chemical that can be poured on or soak the boards in and
> just rinse off?  Not scrubbing!

For those that can/should be near water, use the Crown Cleaner but make sure to rinse afterwards.
For PC boards and components, dentured alcohol on a nnatural bristle paint brush (wet) and swich
it around, then you can even semi-rinse with some not on a brush. Works great.



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 22 16:55:53 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <199809222120.RAA21745@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Sep 22, 98 05:44:33 pm
Message-ID: <199809222155.PAA11564@calico.litterbox.com>

Ack, I didn't mean to suggest washing the electronics with soft scrub.

I was refering to the case.  If I was inclined to clean the electronics I'd 
probably get my hands on as pure isopropyl alcohol as I could and go after
the conductive surfaces with a qtip.  Fortunately none of my machines need
cigarette smoke stains cleaned off the electronics - IE it's not interfering
with their operation and I'm willing to let it be if it's not.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jason at xio.com  Tue Sep 22 17:07:36 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 22, 98 00:04:09 am <199809222120.RAA21745@commercial.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <36081F63.388783EB@xio.com>

jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:

> The point I wanted to find out is:
> 
> Is there a chemical that can be poured on or soak the boards in and
> just rinse off?  Not scrubbing!

If I recall, the FAQ recommends something called "Purple Stuff". I don't know
what it is or how well it works or how hard you have to scrub, if at all --
I've never used it.

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Tue Sep 22 17:26:01 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BE646@RED-MSG-43>

Here's a PARTIAL list of the stuff I'll have in my booth at the Vintage
Computer Festival this weekend, followed by my want list.

FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:

- Apple II (original) systems (2), good cosmetics, neither working, one
needs PS, the other TLC
- Apple II/Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives, drives only
(3)
- Apple ///, tested working, plus optional ProFile hard disk and Apple ///
ProFile controller card
- Apple Lisa (Mac XL), nice shape, powers on, needs Sun SCSI card, keyboard
has 3 wrong keys
- Apple Macintosh 128, beautiful!  Correct original mouse, keyboard and
Apple-logo power cord
- Atari 65XE, memory error on boot
- Atari 130XE, tested working, plus floppy drive, cable, power supplies
- Atari 800, the original Atari 8-bit, nice shape, tested working, with
power supply and Atari BASIC book
- Atari ST, untested
- Coleco ADAM, tested working, with keyboard & printer
- Colecovision classic game system, mint condition, with 2 controllers,
power supply, 1 game
- Commodore 128D, rare version with separate keyboard/built-in diskette
drive, tested working
- Commodore Amiga 500, technician's special
- Commodore Amiga 1000, the first Amiga, tested working, with 1MB Insider
and 256K cartridge
- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working, with Multi-Unit 64
and Portable WordStar ROM
- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working except some keys,
needs cleaning?
- IBM PC Convertible 5140, looks great, tested working, with battery
- IBM Portable PC 5150, the original IBM PC in a portable case, flawless
condition
- Sharp PC1500 Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
working
- Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
working
- SoftStrip Reader!!! Read those barcoded programs along the edge of
magazine pages! In original box
- Sony 15" universal color monitor, accepts Composite, S-Video, Analog RGB,
Digital RGB
- Timex-Sinclair ZX1000, tested working
- TRS-80 Model 100, 32K, tested working, missing battery cover, with Model
100 book
- TRS-80 Color Computer 1, tested working
- Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU

WANT LIST:

- Most anything S-100 bus related, especially but not limited to MITS, IMSAI

- Documentation or Sales Literature for classic systems

- Altair 6800
- Commodore PET Floppy System
- Corvus Concept
- Dynalogic Hyperion
- Exidy Sorcerer
- Heath H8, H11, drives
- IBM AT
- Ohio Scientific systems
- Osborne Vixen
- Processor Technology HELIOS
- RCA 1802 machines (e.g. COSMAC ELF, VIP)
- Rockwell AIM-65
- Sinclair ZX80
- Smoke Signal Broadcasting systems, drives
- SWTPC systems, drives

- Optical serial paper tape reader
- Apple Lisa Office System Diskettes, Unserialized
- HP150 DOS
- Apricot F-Series DOS
- Apple Macintosh Portable Battery

And of course, can't fail to mention the Apple I, Apple Lisa I, Mark 8,
Scelbi 8H, Sphere, & Xerox Star.

See you at VCF!!

Kai



From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep 22 17:26:33 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
Message-ID: <005d01bde679$c4e1b700$78f8fea9@mainoffice>

FYI:

    On page B6, in an article titled "Yet Another 'Father' Of the
Microprocessor Wants Recognition", there is discussion of Ray Holt, an
ex-Navy engineer who claims to have created the microprocessor in 1969, two
years before Hoff, Faggin, and Mazor created the integrated processor.

    In the last paragraph, "This week, Mr. Holt will officially launch a
campaign to make his name. On Saturday, he will be a featured speaker at a
gathering of Silicon Valley computer buffs, the Vintage Computer Festival in
Santa Clara, Calif., where he will be joined by members of his original team
and publicly discuss his invention for the first time."

    Congrats Sam!

Rich Cini/WUGNET
  - ClubWin!/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Collector of "classic" computers
<=========  reply separator ==========>





From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 18:10:15 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BE646@RED-MSG-43> (message
	from Kai Kaltenbach on Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:26:01 -0700)
References: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BE646@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <19980922231015.7991.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal@MICROSOFT.com> wrote:
> FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:
...
> - Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU

MC6809.  Neat system.  Service manual, schematics, ROM images, and some
software source code are all available on the web.


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Tue Sep 22 18:30:08 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Vectrex (RE: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list)
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5062943F5@RED-MSG-43>

Whoops, yeah, 6809, typo.  I actually have another one that I'm keeping,
equipped with Sean Kelly's terrific Multicart, a cartridge that has all of
the Vectrex titles ever created with an on-screen menu select
(http://www.xnet.com/~skelly/).  A guy named John Dondzilla is programming
NEW games for the Vectrex (http://www.monmouth.com/~pcjohn/)

This is only slightly off-topic, since there was actually a plan to market a
Vectrex keyboard add-on that would make it a full computer.

Kai

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 4:10 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list


Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal@MICROSOFT.com> wrote:
> FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:
...
> - Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU

MC6809.  Neat system.  Service manual, schematics, ROM images, and some
software source code are all available on the web.


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 22 06:51:18 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Survival in Hurricanes
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980922143923.18162A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <36078F36.515ADE4D@sprintmail.com>

> > On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> >
> > > Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
> > > over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
> > > place (Not likely I can move them)..
> > > Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
> > > Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
> > > also my collection...
> >
> > I know it would be rough, but do you have an attic you can haul them into?
> > Any barns in your area with an upstairs loft?  You might want to choose
> > the important ones and take care of them first.
>
> Ummm... Sam, I don't know when the last time you were in a good howler of
> a storm, but I don't know about the attic as a good place.  Gets REAL
> unpleasant if the roof peels off.  And barns have real large, often flat
> roofs!  (seen 'Twister' lately?  <G>)
>
> Second floor maybe, out of the basement for sure...
>
> > GOOD LUCK

Attics never survive hurricanes. What's a Basement ?Thanks everyone for best
wishes and thoughtful ideas. I just finished watching the news, of course its
full of reports of  the worst. People down here are very aware of the danger of
these storms and tend to panic. It was only a few years ago the Andrew hit south
Florida, I live on the Southwest side of Florida, and according to reports we
are right in the predicted path. Already all grocery stores are  bare of
standard supplies like Water , Bread, Batteries, the isles are getting bare in
grocery stores. Lumber is already nonexistent as everyone boards up their
windows..My plan is to take my most prized computers like my Osbornes, Kaypros,
TRS-80's..( I mostly collect portables (Luggables)) to my Business Office and
store them . It's built very solid and has very few windows..
As for the rest I am going to put them (Already in boxes) in Large Garbage bags
tied to reduce leaking from possible flooding.. Nothing will help wind damage
from a category 4 storm, the structure of my house would not survive it, and
George looks like it could easily become a 4.  Its going to be a lot of work as
I have about 80 computers, not counting printers and monitors.. I've lived in
Florida for 30 years , seen a lot of storms come and go but this storm looks
very dangerous, it has all the conditions to become very damaging.
Just to stay with the theme of this forum I am changing the subject line to:
" Classic Computer Survival in Hurricanes" <GRIN>!!
Gotta' keep my sense humor here !!!!
--Phil



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 18:55:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980922143923.18162A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922165139.790H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:

> Ummm... Sam, I don't know when the last time you were in a good howler of
> a storm, but I don't know about the attic as a good place.  Gets REAL
> unpleasant if the roof peels off.  And barns have real large, often flat
> roofs!  (seen 'Twister' lately?  <G>)

Well, true, but I was more concerned with the more likely outcome of
flooding.  It seems that homes normally stay intact in hurricanes unless
you get the full force, or unless a tornado gets whipped up.  Maybe I'm
just hurricane ignorant.  Earthquakes are another matter. 


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 18:55:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <19980922015734.2482.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 22, 98 01:57:34 am
Message-ID: <m0zLcHF-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From blakeman at creative-net.net  Tue Sep 22 19:05:22 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
Message-ID: <36083B41.6E0D69B4@creative-net.net>

I have just gotten an original box, foam pads inside that has a manual
and modem inside, probably unused. It says it's a Motorola UDS 201 BC,
made for Motorola by Universal Data Systems of Huntsville AL.  The
manual says it's copyright 1986. Has the cable to connect to the regular
RJ11 lines (telco) and and RJ45 connector on back to hook in multline
phones or regular lines dependant upon the cable used. It also has a 25
pin d-sub on back but it's a female, marked DTE and the manual says its
an RS-232C connection. Pretty much like any external modem except for
the front switch positions. It's a rotary switch with the following
positions:

RDLIST
RDL
LDL
AL
DATA
TLK
TTP
RTP
ST

and it has 8 leds that are marked
MR/RI
TR
RS
CS
CD
RD
TD
TM

My guess is that it will do a multitude of things more than a stock dial
up modem. Many of you that have been into his stuff when it was new
probably know all about it.

Anyone willing to make a trade of some standard PC oriented stuff? PS/2
items? make me an offer if you want this as I don't think it's worth
much in $$ but a lot to someone that uses this type of equipment or for
their collection. A little high brow for me.



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 18:57:51 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
In-Reply-To: <01bde5cc$95f82a80$1028a2ce@manney> from "PG Manney" at Sep 21, 98 09:59:08 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLcJm-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From cfandt at servtech.com  Tue Sep 22 19:20:32 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket 
  (Off  topic)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980922112818.3b9ff38e@intellistar.net>
References: <199809221355.NAA10088@cyber2.servtech.com>
 <3.0.1.16.19980921223308.4fbf2848@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <199809230020.AAA19961@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 11:28 22-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>Chris,
>
>  I learned to program in APL on one in 1968 or 1969. We didn't have to use
>punch cards, we were THE PROGRAMMERS, the machine was turned over to us
>when we walked in the door. At that time it was the only computer in
>central Florida. Not bad for a kid that was still in high school!

Good Heavens! And I thought I was fortunate when my high school's
administration encouraged me to check out and play with a demonstrator
Friden desktop calculator which had a CRT display and quite a few math
function keys. This was about 1969 and I cannot recall the model of the
Friden.

>
>  Around 1979 I worked for a third party company in Virginia that
>maintained 1130s and also upgraded them with third party hardware.  I well
>remember adding boxs with core memory made by someone else (not IBM and not
>us). I think it upgraded them to a whapping 32K!  One of the 1130s that I
>upgraded was owned by Gallop in Princeton, NJ. They're the people that do
>the Gallop polls.  Another one was owned by Virginia Military Institute in
>Lexington, Va.
>
>  Those machines seem to last forever, I'll bet there's still some of them
>in use!

Yeah man! Where???????!!!!!!!   I'll rent a tent and camp out at the place
which has one until either they get tired of it or that Y2K thing obsoletes
it. W. Donzelli would be camping right next to me I think.

Seriously, that would be, in my opinion, the most excellent find! As I
mentioned, I have never heard of any around these days. They were, I
believe, not the typical mainline computers one would hear of in business
like the S/360's and S/370's. Weren't they more used in R&D and academia
because of their ability to handle number crunching not so much as
databases like a business application would? 

Did they use I/O channels like I know the S/370 and my 9370 do for
printers, etc.?

Ours at the college had, in addition to the "huge" 32k of core, a "huge"
5Mb removable hard disk, a 1403 printer and a plotter which could handle up
to 'D' or 'E' size drawings. Somewhere I still have a plot of Marilyn
Monroe in that famous nude pose found in a '53 or '54 Playboy Magazine
centerfold that the IBM CE had run to "checkout the hardware". I kinda
liked that "softwear" and he gave me the plot :-)  

I notice that the venerable 1403 printers are STILL being used after all
these years. They are blazing fast and evidently quite durable (If it ain't
broke, don't fix it! Or in other words, IBM is possibly saying: "If it
still serves its purpose reliably, don't design and sell a replacement
model".)


>
>   Joe
>
>At 09:55 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>At 22:33 21-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>>>At 09:35 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Ever hear much of an IBM 1130? Any info on the web, etc. on that machine?
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Yeah,  I learned to program on one.  Many years later I worked on them.
>>
>>That's where my interest lies as this was my first exposure to computing.
>>In college I learned Fortran IV/66 in 1972/73. I've always been curious
>>about those machines since then. Never heard of them anymore over the past
>>25 (!!) years. 
>>
>>At least I can tell stories to the youngsters, like other "old time"
>>computer folks here, about spending hours in the noisy keypunch room on an
>>IBM 026 (I think) keypunch machine punching out my programs onto the
>>Hollerith cards, hauling the stack of cards (without dropping the danged
>>things!) over to the Computer Operator Guru to be run together in a batch
>>with all the other students' Fortran and Cobol programs overnite and coming
>>back the next morning to be greeted with several pages of compiler errors
>>typically generated by a very simple syntax error in the early part of my
>>program.  No fancy-a** GUI there!! :-)
>>
>>That machine was "huge" by some standards then: it had 32K of core memory!
>>The technical faculty at this rather small junior college was quite
>>impressed. 
>>
>>Ahhh, those were the days....  
>>
>>Of course, I would LOVE to have one!  Anybody got one laying around they
>>want to get shed of?? <g!>
>>
>>Have any technical/interesting facts or anecdotes about the 1130 to share
>>with us big iron folk Joe?
>>

Thanks for the further info!
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 19:24:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <005d01bde679$c4e1b700$78f8fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922172104.790M-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     On page B6, in an article titled "Yet Another 'Father' Of the
> Microprocessor Wants Recognition", there is discussion of Ray Holt, an
> ex-Navy engineer who claims to have created the microprocessor in 1969, two
> years before Hoff, Faggin, and Mazor created the integrated processor.

Actually, its on page B3.

>     In the last paragraph, "This week, Mr. Holt will officially launch a
> campaign to make his name. On Saturday, he will be a featured speaker at a
> gathering of Silicon Valley computer buffs, the Vintage Computer Festival in
> Santa Clara, Calif., where he will be joined by members of his original team
> and publicly discuss his invention for the first time."

The article only raises more questions.  At the VCF we will answer them,
and a new chapter in the history of the development of the microprocessor
will be written.

>     Congrats Sam!

Thanks!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 19:37:12 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Transformer
Message-ID: <19980923003713.4274.qmail@hotmail.com>


I visited Radio Shack yesterday, and look for a step-up transformer
for my European C-128D. They had everything neatly labelled, but
how do I find out how many watts it's rated for? It has a measurement
called 'V/A Cap' which goes from about 70 to over a thousand. The
prices goes up with it.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 19:51:04 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <m0zLcHF-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zLcHF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980923005104.8390.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:
> Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can assure you that storing
> it is only a small portion of the problem.  Powering it and cooling it are
> very problematic.  It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at over 35A).  And

Tony Duell wrote:
> Remember I'm in the UK  -- 240V mains, and 30A ring mains are common. In 
> other words running it from time to time would not be a major problem. I 
> suspect my 11/45 pulls half that amount of power, for example, with all 
> the peripherals I have on it.

The KL10 draws over 8 KW for the CPU card cage alone.  That doesn't even
include the memory or memory adapters, I/O channels, PDP-11/40 front end, and
DECtape that happen to be in the same three-bay cabinet.  The CPU is not
capable of executing a single instruction without all of this support.

It also does not include any disk drives, 9 track tape drives, or
communications system, all of which are necessary for it to function as
a usable system.

You may have 240V mains, but it's split phase, isn't it?  The KL10 *needs*
three phase - the first stage power supply for the main CPU card cage
uses a three-phase rectifier arrangement to get I-forget-what DC voltage
(and I'm too lazy to lazy to calculate it).  This DC voltage is then used
as input to the second stage.  The end result is ten outputs of 5.2VDC at 35A,
and four outputs of 2VDC at 35A.  A substantial portion of the 8KW is
converted to heat just in the power supply; only 2100W is actually available
to the logic.

I'm considering converting the machine to use switching power supplies,
as was done by Compuserve.  Using VICOR modules, this would take five
front-end modules and fourteen DC-DC converter modules, for a cost of
around $2000.  However, it would make the machine much less expensive to
operate.  With this change, I thing it would be possible to power it from
a typical US electric range or clothes dryer circuit.

However, RP06 drives are another matter entirely.  They need three-phase
power for their motors.  I'm reluctant to try the capacitor trick.

Eric


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 19:44:07 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <199809222120.RAA21745@commercial.cgocable.net>
References: <199809222128.PAA11257@calico.litterbox.com>
 <360721B9.94D79C78@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922194407.40af4d12@intellistar.net>

At 05:44 PM 9/22/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>The point I wanted to find out is:
>
>Is there a chemical that can be poured on or soak the boards in and 
>just rinse off?  Not scrubbing!
>
>Reason:
>
>Components, IC's and especially those SMD's  and quads are very hard 
>to clean to assure reliablity.
>
>Cigerette smoke film are sticky and conductive to some degree!
>

   What about washing them in alcohol?  That's what they use to clean
circuit boards so it should be safe for the boards and I *think* it will
take off the smoke gunk.  Or have you tried running the boards through a
dish washer?  I've heard it doesn't harm the boards but I've never tried it.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 22 19:49:47 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5060BE646@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980922194947.40af4a3c@intellistar.net>

Kai,

  I have a bunch of extra HP 150s. How many do you want?

   Joe

At 03:26 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Here's a PARTIAL list of the stuff I'll have in my booth at the Vintage
>Computer Festival this weekend, followed by my want list.
>
>FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:
>
>- Apple II (original) systems (2), good cosmetics, neither working, one
>needs PS, the other TLC
>- Apple II/Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives, drives only
>(3)
>- Apple ///, tested working, plus optional ProFile hard disk and Apple ///
>ProFile controller card
>- Apple Lisa (Mac XL), nice shape, powers on, needs Sun SCSI card, keyboard
>has 3 wrong keys
>- Apple Macintosh 128, beautiful!  Correct original mouse, keyboard and
>Apple-logo power cord
>- Atari 65XE, memory error on boot
>- Atari 130XE, tested working, plus floppy drive, cable, power supplies
>- Atari 800, the original Atari 8-bit, nice shape, tested working, with
>power supply and Atari BASIC book
>- Atari ST, untested
>- Coleco ADAM, tested working, with keyboard & printer
>- Colecovision classic game system, mint condition, with 2 controllers,
>power supply, 1 game
>- Commodore 128D, rare version with separate keyboard/built-in diskette
>drive, tested working
>- Commodore Amiga 500, technician's special
>- Commodore Amiga 1000, the first Amiga, tested working, with 1MB Insider
>and 256K cartridge
>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working, with Multi-Unit 64
>and Portable WordStar ROM
>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working except some keys,
>needs cleaning?
>- IBM PC Convertible 5140, looks great, tested working, with battery
>- IBM Portable PC 5150, the original IBM PC in a portable case, flawless
>condition
>- Sharp PC1500 Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
>working
>- Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
>working
>- SoftStrip Reader!!! Read those barcoded programs along the edge of
>magazine pages! In original box
>- Sony 15" universal color monitor, accepts Composite, S-Video, Analog RGB,
>Digital RGB
>- Timex-Sinclair ZX1000, tested working
>- TRS-80 Model 100, 32K, tested working, missing battery cover, with Model
>100 book
>- TRS-80 Color Computer 1, tested working
>- Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU
>
>WANT LIST:
>
>- Most anything S-100 bus related, especially but not limited to MITS, IMSAI
>
>- Documentation or Sales Literature for classic systems
>
>- Altair 6800
>- Commodore PET Floppy System
>- Corvus Concept
>- Dynalogic Hyperion
>- Exidy Sorcerer
>- Heath H8, H11, drives
>- IBM AT
>- Ohio Scientific systems
>- Osborne Vixen
>- Processor Technology HELIOS
>- RCA 1802 machines (e.g. COSMAC ELF, VIP)
>- Rockwell AIM-65
>- Sinclair ZX80
>- Smoke Signal Broadcasting systems, drives
>- SWTPC systems, drives
>
>- Optical serial paper tape reader
>- Apple Lisa Office System Diskettes, Unserialized
>- HP150 DOS
>- Apricot F-Series DOS
>- Apple Macintosh Portable Battery
>
>And of course, can't fail to mention the Apple I, Apple Lisa I, Mark 8,
>Scelbi 8H, Sphere, & Xerox Star.
>
>See you at VCF!!
>
>Kai
>
>



From blakeman at creative-net.net  Tue Sep 22 20:01:50 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <199809200641.XAA02875@loomcom.com>
	 <3.0.1.32.19980922092754.00c621c0@pc> <3.0.1.16.19980922121847.43076e0a@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3608487D.50FC9556@creative-net.net>



Joe wrote:

> At 11:10 AM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >For the permanent stains, I disassemble and lightly sand the parts and
> >then tack rag them. I get the cheap stain finish paint that Walmart
> >sells (since it has toluene base and will soften into the plastic and
> >stay for good) and repaint the whole piece with the applicable paint.
> >They have a black, light grey, tan and off white that match the original
> >colors nearly to the T. I let them dry very well, usually overnight to
> >make sure that nothing has softened, and then wipe them down good with a
> >damp rag to get rid of the excess spray dust and then reassemble. I use
> >denatured alcohol to clean them prior to painting to make sure there
> >isn't any oily stuff left.
> >
>
>   Russ,
>
>   That sounds like a great  idea for smooth surfaces but what about
> surfaces that have a pebble finish?

If you need to re-pebble an area that's been filled, I use a gauze sponge
(square folded up of guaze) wet with acetone and then the acetone softens the
plastic (usually styrene type plastic anyway) and the guaze will put marks in
it similar to the finish it had. Of course you have to get used to it on a
junker first or you might just ruin the good one. That's what new computer's
cases were made for, trial and error. You can always get another clone case
faceplate.

As for something like the Sanyo, the are hammer finish paints out too, I just
use a Badger or Paasche airbrush to spray them on and then they hammer finish
them selves, whether on metal or plastic. Plastic usually takes a good primer
coat first though.



From blakeman at creative-net.net  Tue Sep 22 20:05:15 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Removing mailing label gunk
References: <be971fe7.36076593@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.19980922122616.3b3fa71c@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3608494A.63401FBB@creative-net.net>

Joe wrote:

> At 11:19 AM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> Joe, what is Goo-Gone and where do you get it.
> >
> >Googone can be bad on some plastics or finishes. It has some xylol based
> >chemicals and can damage a few things and dries rubber platens. Walmart,
> >hardware stores, etc have it but be really careful with it if you decide
> >to use it in leiu of common solvents like denatured alcohol.
>
>   Good advice.  I've never had a problem with Goo-Gone but I always try
> denatured alcohol first.  ANY kind of solvent is rough on rubber. Try soap
> and water with lots of elbow grease first.

I was thinking of something other than Goo-gone I think. Someone said Goo-Gone
is citrus based, although the oils from orange and lemon peels are flammable
solvents too, but what I was thinking of is named something else that I can't
think of. In other words, just be careful before you commit and turn to sh**.



From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 20:27:43 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <199809230127.AA27830@world.std.com>


>Here what happened when I ran ZRQCH0
>
>.RUN ZRQCH0
>ZRQCH0.BIN
>
>DRSSM-G2
>ZRQC-H-0
>RQDX3 Disk Formatter Utility
>UNIT IS Formattable Winchester (RDnn) or Floppy (RX33) Drives
>RSTRT ADR 145702
>
>DR>

>So what does it want for input?  Don't know if this is a stupid question,
>but am asking since I've never actually used XXDP+ and I didn't get any
>documentation at all with the Packs, despite the fact that the rest had
>related Docs.

type 'STA'.  It will prompt you for some information which will be
pretty intuitive... stuff like the hardware address to use, the unit
to format, whether you want bad blocks revectored, etc...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 20:29:28 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <199809230129.AA29376@world.std.com>


< We just to joke that Z80EMU on a Pentium was faster than any Z80 process
< you could actually buy, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible these days t
< create a 38 pin I/O port and build an "ICE" in software...
< --Chuck

thats a tall claim as the z80 is available up to 20mhz and z180s to 33mhz.
Then you can also use he Z380 is z80 native mode (it uses fewer clocks
per instruction than any other z80) at 20mhz (faster are supposed to 
exist.).

I am in the process of bringing up a Z280 at 12.5mhz (with 16bit zbus)
and I expect that with it's instruction cache and fast ram there will
be a new level of CPM performance comming.

since I have a z80 system that runs at 8mhz (no waits!) and MYZ80 on a 
486dx2/66 and the 486 is faster on emulated disk IO (inherent caching) but 
about the about the same as the 8mhz system otherwise.  The disk 
differences are due to the type of interface SCSI-1 vs SCSI-II and size of 
buffers.

Emulators have their place.  One is allowing cross platform code 
development and testing and the other is allowing access to archetectures
that are scarce or unusual.

Allison



From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 20:39:43 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <199809230139.AA08648@world.std.com>


>[Too bad emulators don't emulate hardware interfaces...]
>
>Hmm...  ANyone got a decent description of the lights/switches on the
>KA-10 frontpanel?  I could t

Actually, there is a pdp-8/e emulator (from Doug Jones) which creates
and X-window through which you can actually toggle things in, watch
the lights, etc.... it looks great...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From fauradon at pclink.com  Tue Sep 22 20:45:27 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: TOPS Flashcard
Message-ID: <001301bde693$d7e78fe0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

Hi,
I am currently trying to set up TOPS between my MAC network and PC network.
I have flashcard but apparently am having trouble making the two talk. Is
there any way I can test the flashcard and connector adapter to make sure
they work?
Any pinout and hardware info will be greatly apreciated as well as any tips
on that matter.
Thak you.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 19:17:00 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Sep 22, 98 02:42:12 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLccD-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 19:22:40 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off
In-Reply-To: <199809221254.MAA09197@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Sep 22, 98 08:54:19 am
Message-ID: <m0zLchf-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 19:36:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809222031.NAA17172@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 22, 98 01:31:35 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLcug-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 19:13:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
In-Reply-To: <199809220434.VAA05865@loomcom.com> from "sethm@loomcom.com" at Sep 21, 98 09:34:59 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLcYM-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 19:43:59 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Vectrex (RE: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list)
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5062943F5@RED-MSG-43> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Sep 22, 98 04:30:08 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLd2K-000IySC@p850ug1>

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From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 22 20:44:12 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980922214412.12a@trailing-edge.com>

>>So what does it want for input?  Don't know if this is a stupid question,
>>but am asking since I've never actually used XXDP+ and I didn't get any
>>documentation at all with the Packs, despite the fact that the rest had
>>related Docs.
>type 'STA'.  It will prompt you for some information which will be
>pretty intuitive... stuff like the hardware address to use, the unit
>to format, whether you want bad blocks revectored, etc...

If he couldn't figure out the answers to the VS2000 formatter, he's
not going to have any easier time with ZRQC!  Remember, he's formatting
disks that have never been formatted on a VS2000 or RQDX3 before, so
he needs all the numbers necessary to MSCP-qualify the disk.

Here's the RD52 numbers, straight from the RQDX3 DEC-internal docs:

					Quantum		Atasi
					-------		-----
Sector Interleave			1:1		1:1
Bytes/Sector				512		512
Sectors/LBN				1		1
LBNs/Track				17		17
Tracks/Group				8		7
Groups/Cylinder				1		1
Cylinders/Unit				512		645
Total LBN's/Unit			69632		76755
RBNs/Unit				168		168
RCT Size (Blocks)			4		4
RCT Copies				8		8
DBNs/Unit				8		8
XBNs/Unit				54		54
User LBNs/Unit				60480		60480
User Capacity (Bytes)			30965760	30965760
Step Pulsewidth (usec)			11.2		11.2
Step Rate (usec)			17.6		17.6
Write Precomp (nsec)			10		10
Precomp Cylinders			256-611		320-644

And, for completeness, the RD51 and RD53 numbers (though I suspect
the DEC tables have typos for at least some of the RD51 quantities):

					RD51		RD53
					----		----
Sector Interleave			1:1		1:1
Bytes/Sector				512		512
Sectors/LBN				1		1
LBNs/Track				18		17
Tracks/Group				1		8
Groups/Cylinder				4		1
Cylinders/Unit				306		1024
Total LBN's/Unit			22032		139264
RBNs/Unit				144		280
RCT Size (Blocks)			36		5
RCT Copies				4		8
DBNs/Unit				87		82
XBNs/Unit				57		54
User LBNs/Unit				21600		138672
User Capacity (Bytes)			11059200	71000064
Step Pulsewidth (usec)			11.2		11.2
Step Rate (usec)			17.6		17.6
Write Precomp (nsec)			10		(none)
Precomp Cylinders			110-305		(none)

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 22 20:50:43 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
Message-ID: <980922215043.12a@trailing-edge.com>

>Remember you are working with mains on exposed metalwork (including the 
>transformer core), so don't do this unless you have experience of such 
>things.

Hasn't every IMSAI owner experienced 120VAC when they touched the traces
running to the front panel power switch[*] and got a nasty jolt? :-).  I've
done it many times, and I'm sure I'll do it again!

[*] Yes, I know it's not necessarily a power switch, but it is on all
    of mine (never had write-protectable RAM).

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From museum at techniche.com  Tue Sep 22 20:54:06 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Trying to reach a list member
Message-ID: <199809230154.VAA16418@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi folks,

I've been trying to reach Paxton  Hoag (WHoaglll@aol.com).

I've send several e-mail message but apparently I
can't reach him.  Maybe his ISP is blocking mine or
something.

I have seen recent posting from him our our list so
I know that he's been out there.  If anyone is in 
touch with him could you forward this to him?

Perhaps he can contact me on an alternate address,

   techniche@mediaone.net

Thanks,

Jon



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 20:47:05 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <19980923005104.8390.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 23, 98 00:51:04 am
Message-ID: <m0zLe1M-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 20:56:46 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <19980923003713.4274.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 22, 98 05:37:12 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLeAj-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From kyrrin at jps.net  Tue Sep 22 21:08:48 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
In-Reply-To: <36083B41.6E0D69B4@creative-net.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980922191407.kyrrin@jps.net>

On 23-Sep-98 Russ Blakeman wrote:

>I have just gotten an original box, foam pads inside that has a manual
>and modem inside, probably unused. It says it's a Motorola UDS 201 BC,

        <snip>

>My guess is that it will do a multitude of things more than a stock
>dial up modem. Many of you that have been into his stuff when it was
>new probably know all about it.

        <snip>

        After spending seven years with Motorola, I consider myself
well qualified to comment on this beastie.

        What you have there is one of the early 4-wire leased-line
modems. It requires another Motorola 201 or compatible on the opposite
end to talk to, and is not capable of handling dial-up connections
because it has no autodialer in it. It was designed pretty much
exclusively for dedicated private lines.

        It tops out at 2400bps, speed-wise, and was designed to handle
synchronous transmission only. There's a weak possibility that a
commercial datacomm company might still be interested in it, but I've
seen people having trouble -giving- those things away at swap meets.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 22-Sep-98 at 19:08:52, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Sep 22 21:14:30 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <19980922053146.3515.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
 <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 05:31 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:
>Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
>> It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10 that getting one to run
>> (even when new) required a full time field service engineer
>
>As I recall, the 2060 I used to use ran for months at a time without needing
>repair (i.e., just scheduled PM).
>
>> (our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still here it'd be 25 years
>> old)
>
>Must have been a KI, then.  I'm told that those were relatively easy to keep
>running (at least compared to the KL).

Indeed it was a KI. We had weekly scheduled PMs. During this period, apart
from anything else, the engineer checked for defective bulbs. I seem to
recall that he used to replace 10 or so each week. (For those of you not
fortunate enough to see a -10, ours consisted of about 25 cabinets, each of
which had a minimum of 144 bulbs. That makes for lots of bulbs....

>A former DEC field service engineer has told me that I'm a madman for wanting
>to try, but he didn't put the probability anywhere near that low.  The
>system was in perfect working order when it was decommissioned, and not
>much has happened to it since.  Aside from testing the power supplies and
>checking for oxidation on the connectors, I'm not really expecting that
>much to be wrong with it.  And I think I know where to find spare modules
>if it is necessary.

Access to spare modules is a must. Lack of such access is one of the
reasons why I doubt most informed users would be able to run a -10. You
would ideally need access to a former -10 engineer who can fill you in on
all the "tricks". I've never done maintenance on a -10 but I did look after
three VAX-8800s for three years. Spare parts and a sympathetic engineer
were essential. The problem was at the end of three years, I got a
reputation as someone who knew about 8800s and people used to ask me
questions :-)

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 21:14:34 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
Message-ID: <199809230214.AA09119@world.std.com>


< Well, true, but I was more concerned with the more likely outcome of
< flooding.  It seems that homes normally stay intact in hurricanes unles
< you get the full force, or unless a tornado gets whipped up.  Maybe I'm

Being from LI NY I'm used to hurricanes.  I suggested CLEAN NEW garbage 
pails to store in as they can be taped closed and tied down.  Also they 
are less likely to be sold out.  We'd get one extra 10gal for water!

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 21:14:47 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
Message-ID: <199809230214.AA09321@world.std.com>


< >Reason:
< >
< >Components, IC's and especially those SMD's  and quads are very hard 
< >to clean to assure reliablity.
< >
< >Cigerette smoke film are sticky and conductive to some degree!
< >

While isopropanol is good wash a trip through the dish washer works every 
time for me.  Air dry or a cool oven to get out any trapped water.

Did that on a trs80 that was megga nasty once and it came out better than 
factory.  Keyboard and all.

Water and detergent is safe for most everything.

allison



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Sep 22 21:16:00 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <19980922053723.3568.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809220445.OAA21691@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
 <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809230216.MAA28908@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 05:37 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:

>I haven't been in touch with Stu for a while; I don't know whether he
>is getting any closer to releasing it.

I think there might be a few takers if it were available. I'd even buy a
Pentium based system to run it on (I've only got alphas at home....).

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:19:32 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Transformer
Message-ID: <19980923021933.29695.qmail@hotmail.com>





In short, if the 128D uses 60W, I need a transformer with a VA of
60 or higher, your recommendation around 100?
>> 
>> 
>> I visited Radio Shack yesterday, and look for a step-up transformer
>> for my European C-128D. They had everything neatly labelled, but
>> how do I find out how many watts it's rated for? It has a measurement
>> called 'V/A Cap' which goes from about 70 to over a thousand. The
>> prices goes up with it.
>
>OK... VA (not V/A...) is Volt-amps. It's called the 'apparent power' 
>rating of the load.
>
>Remember that in a DC circuit you calculate the power by multiplying 
the 
>voltage (in volts) by the current in amps. So the VA unit does have the 
>right dimensions to be power.
>
>In an AC circuit, things are not so simple. I'm going to stick to 
>sinusoidal waveforms here, BTW and let someone else handle the nasty 
>cases. It turns out that if the voltage and current are not in phase 
with 
>each other (and they won't be unless the load is perfectly resistive), 
>then the useful power you can get out of the load - the so-called true 
>power - is given by V*I*cos(phi) where phi is the phase angle between 
the 
>voltage (V) and current (I) waveforms. V and I are the rms values of 
the 
>voltage and current, as usual.
>
>cos(phi) is called the 'power factor' of the system.
>
>But, the size of the transformer you need is really determined by the 
rms 
>values of V and I, no matter what the phase shift is. So that, for 
>example, if you have a load giving out a true power of 50W, with a 
power 
>factor of 0.5, then you need to use a 100W transformer to supply it. 
>
>What does this mean to you?
>
>I think it's fair to say that 0.5 is an excessively low power factor 
for 
>any micro. 0.66 would be pretty low as well. So if you (say) see that 
>your machine takes 100W, then a 150W or 200W transformer would be 
ample. 
>A 100W transformer _might_ be OK, but it might be marginal. 
Practically, 
>I'd probably pick smalllest transformer with a VA rating in excess of 
the 
>wattage of the computer, and if it doesn't get excessively hot in use, 
>it'll be fine.
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 22 22:23:31 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:49 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <980922214412.12a@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <v0401170bb22e18c29419@[192.168.1.2]>

>Here's the RD52 numbers, straight from the RQDX3 DEC-internal docs:

THANK YOU Tim, This is the kind of info I've been searching EVERYWHERE for!
The info on the Quantum page was virtually worthless, and I'd not been able
to find anything anywhere else.  If you haven't already, could you please
stick this on the PDP-11 FTP site, so the next person will have an easier
time finding it (if it was already there I'm going to feel really stupid).

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 21:16:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Transformer
In-Reply-To: <19980923021933.29695.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 22, 98 07:19:32 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLeU4-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 22 21:27:52 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <199809230214.AA09321@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 22, 98 10:14:47 pm
Message-ID: <199809230227.UAA13553@calico.litterbox.com>

Seriously?  you can run electronics through the dishwasher?

Do you have to stop it before it goes through the dry cycle?
I have a '64 I don't value especially that I'll try this on... anything
else I should know before this venerable machine gets opened up?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 22 21:22:34 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> (message from
	Huw Davies on Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:14:30 +1000)
References: <199809220442.OAA21664@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
 <199809220107.LAA19187@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <19980923022234.8933.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
> Indeed it was a KI. We had weekly scheduled PMs. During this period, apart
> from anything else, the engineer checked for defective bulbs. I seem to
> recall that he used to replace 10 or so each week. (For those of you not
> fortunate enough to see a -10, ours consisted of about 25 cabinets, each of
> which had a minimum of 144 bulbs. That makes for lots of bulbs....

What a waste of time!  Even on the KA10 I used, the bulbs had been replaced
with LEDs.  There were several companies that made LEDs packaged with
current limiting resistors specifically for bulb replacement.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 21:23:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Sep 23, 98 12:14:30 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLeaI-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 22 21:32:11 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980922223211.246@trailing-edge.com>

>THANK YOU Tim

You're welcome!

> This is the kind of info I've been searching EVERYWHERE for!

And the kind that languishes about in DEC-internal docs :-).  Keep in
mind that I strongly suspect that at least some of the RD51 numbers
in that table are wrong.

>The info on the Quantum page was virtually worthless, and I'd not been able
>to find anything anywhere else.  

Unfortunately on the net these days, you're far more likely to find
folks trying to act self-important rather than actually dealing with
useful technical information.  I certainly thought I'd see useful
information on 'classiccmp', but it doesn't seem to be any better than
the rest of the world.

>If you haven't already, could you please
>stick this on the PDP-11 FTP site, so the next person will have an easier
>time finding it (if it was already there I'm going to feel really stupid).

Indeed, it is now there:

http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/rqdx3.mfmparameters

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep 22 22:08:00 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket   (Off  topic)
In-Reply-To: <199809230020.AAA19961@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922225702.4453B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Yeah man! Where???????!!!!!!!   I'll rent a tent and camp out at the place
> which has one until either they get tired of it or that Y2K thing obsoletes
> it. W. Donzelli would be camping right next to me I think.

No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.

> Seriously, that would be, in my opinion, the most excellent find! As I
> mentioned, I have never heard of any around these days. They were, I
> believe, not the typical mainline computers one would hear of in business
> like the S/360's and S/370's. Weren't they more used in R&D and academia
> because of their ability to handle number crunching not so much as
> databases like a business application would? 

I know little about 1103s, but they were indeed built for number crunching
for people that could not afford a big S/360. The 1103 is related to the
1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 22:15:23 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <199809230315.AA05865@world.std.com>


>If he couldn't figure out the answers to the VS2000 formatter, he's
>not going to have any easier time with ZRQC!  Remember, he's formatting
>disks that have never been formatted on a VS2000 or RQDX3 before, so
>he needs all the numbers necessary to MSCP-qualify the disk.

The version of ZRQC I've used doesn't ask any of the stuff you
supplied in the rest of your post... as I said, what it asks
is pretty intuitively answered (at least it has been for me, and
I've not had to enter any of the values).

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 22:19:03 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <199809230319.AA08735@world.std.com>


< It's not unheard of for a domestic mains supply in the UK to be 240V @ 
< 80A or even 100A. If I had a PDP10, you can be sure I'd find a way to ge
< such a supply.

In the USA (MA) 100-200A service pannels are common with both 120/240
ouputs typically under 15A for 120 loops and veriable for the 240.  It's
fairly trivial to drop a 30A 240 single phase and in my garage I have a 
plug for one if needed. 

KL10 8KW is likely not real but a max.

< Ouch. That's about 25% efficient. Sorry, but that does need to be 
< redesigned, particularly if it's a switcher.!

for that kind of efficientcy it would have to be a very poor linear
as most of them are in the 45-65% range.  I'm skeptical that the input 
load is really 8KW and in reality far less.  I'm inclined to believe
something more in the range of 4kw is the truth.

For example I'm running 4 VS3100s and the name plate says 5.8A at 120v
on the back of the /m76 yet the /M10E it's only 1.2A... the reson is the 
/m76 can daisy chan the AC power out to another box (switched) but the 
internal power supply is only a 150w switcher needing 1.2A.  The 
underline is that 8kw may well be the AC distribution bus load not the 
local processor power load.

< > However, RP06 drives are another matter entirely.  They need three-pha
< > power for their motors.  I'm reluctant to try the capacitor trick.

That works well if the values are right.  Keep in mind that the motors 
are running under a mostly static load so despite their size and power 
they are running at a fraction of their full load power.
 
< There are electronic 3-phase converters sold in the UK (and I think 
< Elektor published as design for one). They are typically used for small
< (2-3hp) motors on machine tools. I would guess that an RP06 would run of
< one of those without any problems.

Rotary converter, low efficentcy but they work and can be built.

Allison



From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 22:22:30 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
References: <199809220445.OAA21691@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
    <m0zLHFF-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809230322.AA11685@world.std.com>

Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:

>I think there might be a few takers if it were available. I'd even buy a
>Pentium based system to run it on (I've only got alphas at home....).

I'd want one... but I'd want to be able to build it for the
machine I have.  I hope he doesn't go the same route as the
person who wrote the EDSAC emulator did... executable image
only.  I prefer to NOT run MS-anything, so I run Linux at
home...

(Not to mention the EDSAC simulator did NOT run on my machine
when I did try W95 to run it).

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 22 22:31:54 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
Message-ID: <199809230331.AA19767@world.std.com>


< Do you have to stop it before it goes through the dry cycle?

On mine I can set it for a low energy dry so that varies.  I'd suggest 
letting it start and after five minutes pull it out (warm board will dry 
faster).

< I have a '64 I don't value especially that I'll try this on... anything
< else I should know before this venerable machine gets opened up?

Anything that can trap water like dip switches or adjustable coils will 
take a long time to dry.  Baking in a 170-180F oven will accelerate 
drying with little risk.  I've done this to PDP-11 and VAX boards, a
TRS80 and many other boards that were real grungy.  The process used at 
the factory is very similar to a dishwasher (sometimes is!).

Allison



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 22:31:25 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
Message-ID: <4140f2da.36086b8d@aol.com>

(wow, offline for 4 days, and well over 100 messages!)
heh, i have that apple emulator program. i think someone gave it to me. it's
pretty neat, but the apple // screen is rather small when you're running on a
compact mac's screen! the program even included a comm program for a // so you
could xfer files between the // and the mac. 

david

In a message dated 98-09-22 16:34:01 EDT, you write:

> Have you seen the Apple II emulator 'II in a Mac' for the 68000 Macs?  It 
>  placed the moitor, a keyboard, joystick, four floppy drives, printer, and 
>  a clock on the screen.  Then you could actually click on the keyboard's 
>  keys or move the joystick on the screen with the mouse.  A really neat 
>  interface which, IMHO, did a half decent job at preserving the hardware's 
>  feel.  It's a shame more emulators don't do such a good job at portraying 
>  the hardware.
>  
>  Tom Owad
>  


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 22:41:14 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
Message-ID: <373e0ea1.36086dda@aol.com>

DONT use purple stuff! its way too strong. i used it once on a pc case, and
where it dripped and/or sat on the case, the paint was a lighter shade. its
very strong, so if you take appropriate measures, it will clean most anything.
the best thing i've found is armor all all-purpose cleaner. safe, and cleans
good and wont draw the colour out of anything. it you use lots of it with hot
water, it even removes the grease pen price marks from thrift stores. 

david

In a message dated 98-09-22 18:11:28 EDT, you write:

> If I recall, the FAQ recommends something called "Purple Stuff". I don't 
> know
>  what it is or how well it works or how hard you have to scrub, if at all --
>  I've never used it.


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep 22 22:43:50 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <199809230214.AA09321@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980922224144.31661B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> While isopropanol is good wash a trip through the dish washer works every 
> time for me.  Air dry or a cool oven to get out any trapped water.
> 
> Did that on a trs80 that was megga nasty once and it came out better than 
> factory.  Keyboard and all.
> 
> Water and detergent is safe for most everything.

I just tried this with my old dusty CARDIAC (you know, the cardboard
computer).  Ewwww, what a mess.

-- Doug



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Tue Sep 22 22:47:31 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Mail Mixup (off topic)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809222008.A16560-0100000@netcom8>


  Sorry for this, but it's short.

 I recently lost correspondence with a list-member... it turned out 
that my e-mail addr had mysteriously mutated, and mail sent there 
just vanished, no bounce, no return...  zilch. It took a phone call 
to clear *that* up. [Correct is: jpl15@netcom.com]

  I have written two active list members, with no replies, though 
they used to do so. 

  So: Seth M. and Paxton... if you are writing me privately...  
I'm not getting them. And if you've gotten my mail(s) and simply
haven't/don't wish to write back..  my profuse apologies to you and
the group, and I'll shut up now. 

  Thanks for your indulgence, fellow List-friends.


  Cheers  (digital garlic breath??  nahh....)


  John



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 22 22:48:20 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <373e0ea1.36086dda@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922204739.28148A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> DONT use purple stuff! its way too strong. i used it once on a pc case, and
> where it dripped and/or sat on the case, the paint was a lighter shade. its
> very strong, so if you take appropriate measures, it will clean most anything.
> the best thing i've found is armor all all-purpose cleaner. safe, and cleans
> good and wont draw the colour out of anything. it you use lots of it with hot
> water, it even removes the grease pen price marks from thrift stores. 

Use Touch of Oranges for crayon or grease pencil.  Melts it like butter,
no scrubbing or hard rubbing required. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 22 11:08:02 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <199809230214.AA09321@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3607CB62.489817D4@sprintmail.com>

Allison J Parent wrote:

> While isopropanol is good wash a trip through the dish washer works every
> time for me.  Air dry or a cool oven to get out any trapped water.
>
> Did that on a trs80 that was megga nasty once and it came out better than
> factory.  Keyboard and all.
>
> Water and detergent is safe for most everything.
>
> allison

 This is really good information I am going to try this on one computer in my
collection. This unit is so Gummed up by Cigarette smoke I can't even stand
to be in the same room with it, It actually makes my sinuses get irritated
and makes me sneeze while this machine is on. I opened it up and there was a
sticky film all over the components, almost like a fungus growing on it from
cigarette tar.. I was going to get rid of it as it smelled so bad, so I hope
this works..

Phil



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Sep 22 23:14:27 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <m0zLeaI-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809230414.OAA29586@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 03:23 AM 23-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:

>I have never found module-swapping to be a reliable or useful method of 
>fault tracing or repair!. I find it a lot easier to look at signals on 
>the 'scope/analyser and track down the real fault. I do that on _all_ the 
>machines I own...
>
>You're going to have to convince me that there's something _very 
>differnt_ about a PDP10 to convince me that spare modules are essential.

Well I've only tried to maintain VAX8800s, where tracing signals is not at
all possible. You cannot run the machine with the doors open for example.
(I know that you can disable the door interlocks, but after a reasonably
short period of running either the airflow sensors will shut the system
down, or core temperatures will exceed threshold and it'll go down). Of
course, with a multi-layer PC board, you can't reliably follow signal paths
anyway....

As far as the -10 is concerned, there would be several hundred (if not
thousands) of modules and the backplane (for want of a better word) was a
machine wrapped nest of identical (yellow) wires. I doubt that you could
reliably follow a signal within a rack, let alone across the whole machine.
However, as I said before, I've never attacked a -10 with a scope so I
can't be sure that this isn't possible.

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep 22 23:57:57 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
References: <m0zLcJm-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <36087FD5.F96192FC@cnct.com>

Hokay, we've had enough discussion about making the cases pretty for
the groundlings to admire.  They don't count.  What matters is whether
or not the thing works.  Anybody got a line on head load pads for old
8" single-sided floppy drives?  My TRS-80 Model 2 is starting to eat
disks -- the pads probably should have been changed at least five
years ago.  (Hints on making my own will help).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 23 00:55:01 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <36087FD5.F96192FC@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:

By Mechanical Means

1) Disconnect the gun direction computer from its source of power.

2) Open the hinged doors on the front and rear of the case.

3) Remove the plug-in units from the cells of the computer main frame.

4) Using an axe, pick mattock, sledge, or other heavy implement, destroy
the gun direction computer by smashing the range unit, azimuth and
deflection unit, fuze unit, quadrant elevation unit, muzzle velocity unit,
spot correction unit, origin, reference, replot unit, main control unit,
meteorological unit, H/R unit, amplifiers, terminal boards, and blowers.
Elapsed time: 5 minutes.

[then run away]

-- Doug



From dpeschel at u.washington.edu  Wed Sep 23 01:03:03 1998
From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 23, 98 00:55:01 am
Message-ID: <199809230603.XAA29523@saul7.u.washington.edu>

> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:

The idea makes my flesh crawl.  (I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, only
that it's really scary).

I was going to mention another chapter every computer manual should have.
This also fits into the "It may be a mainframe if..." list that periodically
gets discussed on alt.folklore.computers.

The manual for the SWAC (used by the U.S. Bureau of Standards) has a whole
chapter on first-aid procedures, with emphasis on treatment of burns.

I don't know if it explains how to treat injuries from heavy objects
or angry co-workers.

-- Derek


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 01:03:54 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922230239.28148C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> 4) Using an axe, pick mattock, sledge, or other heavy implement, destroy
> the gun direction computer by smashing the range unit, azimuth and
> deflection unit, fuze unit, quadrant elevation unit, muzzle velocity unit,
> spot correction unit, origin, reference, replot unit, main control unit,
> meteorological unit, H/R unit, amplifiers, terminal boards, and blowers.
> Elapsed time: 5 minutes.

What about the old tried and true "swallowing" method?  Might be slow, and
a little painful on the other end, but if you don't happen to have a
sledge hammer handy it would be your only recourse.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep 23 01:35:45 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <360896C1.F24A8004@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:
> 
> By Mechanical Means
> 
> 1) Disconnect the gun direction computer from its source of power.
> 
> 2) Open the hinged doors on the front and rear of the case.
> 
> 3) Remove the plug-in units from the cells of the computer main frame.
> 
> 4) Using an axe, pick mattock, sledge, or other heavy implement, destroy
> the gun direction computer by smashing the range unit, azimuth and
> deflection unit, fuze unit, quadrant elevation unit, muzzle velocity unit,
> spot correction unit, origin, reference, replot unit, main control unit,
> meteorological unit, H/R unit, amplifiers, terminal boards, and blowers.
> Elapsed time: 5 minutes.
> 
> [then run away]

How about what should be line 0, using the gun to prevent the rest of
the instructions being necessary?
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From blakeman at creative-net.net  Wed Sep 23 02:08:41 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922204739.28148A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36089E77.4BCC7268@creative-net.net>

Sam Ismail wrote:

> Use Touch of Oranges for crayon or grease pencil.  Melts it like butter,
> no scrubbing or hard rubbing required.

Lighter fluid works just as good on them since they are petroleum based and so is
lighter fluid. I write with grease pencil on the fronts of machines in storage to
know what they have and the condition. When I do a finish cleaning to ship or
deliver I just take a little lighter fluid on the writing and it's gone.



From blakeman at creative-net.net  Wed Sep 23 02:11:33 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Cleaning a rusty transformer
References: <m0zLcYM-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <36089F23.2793BB49@creative-net.net>

Tony Duell wrote:

> Remember you are working with mains on exposed metalwork (including the
> transformer core), so don't do this unless you have experience of such
> things. I only mention it if you can't get a megger.

It wouldn't be any fun if it weren't dangerous.



From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 23 02:05:20 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809230414.OAA29586@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> (message from
	Huw Davies on Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:14:27 +1000)
References: <199809230214.MAA28884@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> <199809230414.OAA29586@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <19980923070520.10034.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Huw Davies <H.Davies@latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
> As far as the -10 is concerned, there would be several hundred (if not
> thousands) of modules

For the KL10, the main CPU cage contains a total of 47 extended hex
modules, of 30 unique types.

    http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/pdp-10/kl10d_modules.html

> and the backplane (for want of a better word) was a
> machine wrapped nest of identical (yellow) wires. I doubt that you could
> reliably follow a signal within a rack, let alone across the whole machine.

If you didn't have prints, it would be damned difficult.  Fortunately
prints exist.

Tracking down a short in the backplane would be a nightmare, though.

Cheers,
Eric


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 02:27:20 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
In-Reply-To: <36089E77.4BCC7268@creative-net.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923002653.6796C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > Use Touch of Oranges for crayon or grease pencil.  Melts it like butter,
> > no scrubbing or hard rubbing required.
> 
> Lighter fluid works just as good on them since they are petroleum based and so is
> lighter fluid. I write with grease pencil on the fronts of machines in storage to
> know what they have and the condition. When I do a finish cleaning to ship or
> deliver I just take a little lighter fluid on the writing and it's gone.

But is lighter fluid completely harmless to whatever surface you are
cleaning?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 23 06:44:28 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
Message-ID: <199809231144.AA16147@world.std.com>


< > While isopropanol is good wash a trip through the dish washer works ev
< > time for me.  Air dry or a cool oven to get out any trapped water.
< 
<  This is really good information I am going to try this on one computer 
< collection. This unit is so Gummed up by Cigarette smoke I can't even st
< to be in the same room with it, It actually makes my sinuses get irritat
< and makes me sneeze while this machine is on. I opened it up and there w
< sticky film all over the components, almost like a fungus growing on it 
< cigarette tar.. I was going to get rid of it as it smelled so bad, so I 
< this works..

this takes me back some to a customer that was making TV converter boxes
(legit).  Seems the boards were assembled in Mexico and then tested in 
Texas.  Then would fail after a few hours... seems fungus growing on the 
board from the bad water (recirculated and reused excessively) used would 
cause high resistance shorts that would affect the microprocessor crystal 
clock.  The fix was a was a wash in good Texas water. 

Actually, a clean board has a lower fail rate as the cooling is better,
no dust or grunge.

Case parts can also be cleaned that way if they fit, me I take them 
out in the driveway and use the hose and a bucket of soapy water.

With care you can clean most anything with soap and water... assuming 
the object itself isn't water soluble.  ;)

Allison




From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 23 06:44:34 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
Message-ID: <199809231144.AA16223@world.std.com>


< As far as the -10 is concerned, there would be several hundred (if not
< thousands) of modules and the backplane (for want of a better word) was 
< machine wrapped nest of identical (yellow) wires. I doubt that you coul
< reliably follow a signal within a rack, let alone across the whole machi
< However, as I said before, I've never attacked a -10 with a scope so I
< can't be sure that this isn't possible.

Never touched a 10 myself but... I've worked with those who had.  Despite 
it's complexity most of it is the same thing x36 or some sub multiple.
So troubleshoorting it would be like attacking and older straight 8 or
8I/L series with it's large number of modules.  You follow a problem along 
a bit path to the point of failure.  Usually with a handfull of know good 
common modules and a scope.  Backplane problems were extermely difficult
if there were any kind if damage to the wiring or connectors.

Allison



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 23 07:50:03 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <36087FD5.F96192FC@cnct.com>
References: <m0zLcJm-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980923075003.43a71980@intellistar.net>



At 12:57 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hokay, we've had enough discussion about making the cases pretty for
>the groundlings to admire.  They don't count.  What matters is whether
>or not the thing works.  Anybody got a line on head load pads for old
>8" single-sided floppy drives?  My TRS-80 Model 2 is starting to eat


  DAMM! I just passed up three 8" drives!  I have three or four extras
laying around here.  How interchangeable are they among the different brands?

   Joe




From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 23 08:00:13 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <360896C1.F24A8004@cnct.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980923080013.43a757fc@intellistar.net>

At 02:35 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Doug Yowza wrote:
>> 
>> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
>> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:
>> 
>> By Mechanical Means
>> 
>> 1) Disconnect the gun direction computer from its source of power.
>> 
>> 2) Open the hinged doors on the front and rear of the case.
>> 
>> 3) Remove the plug-in units from the cells of the computer main frame.
>> 
>> 4) Using an axe, pick mattock, sledge, or other heavy implement, destroy
>> the gun direction computer by smashing the range unit, azimuth and
>> deflection unit, fuze unit, quadrant elevation unit, muzzle velocity unit,
>> spot correction unit, origin, reference, replot unit, main control unit,
>> meteorological unit, H/R unit, amplifiers, terminal boards, and blowers.
>> Elapsed time: 5 minutes.
>> 
>> [then run away]
>
>How about what should be line 0, using the gun to prevent the rest of
>the instructions being necessary?


   Ward, you forget that our government doesn't even trust it's soldiers
with live ammo!   When the federal troops were patrolling Miami after
hurricane Andrew they had to send Fla National Guardsmen out with them to
protect the regular army types since the gangs were holding them up and
taking their weapons.

  Joe


>-- 
>Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
>
>When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
>firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
>



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Wed Sep 23 07:28:45 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809230322.AA11685@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <13390189681.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[If Stu releases .exe-only]

Eww, that would suck - I doubt he supports ITS, and that's my whole intent
for finding/emulating/whatever a PDP-10...
-------


From g at ehrich.com  Wed Sep 23 07:59:13 1998
From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: System 7
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922225702.4453B-100000@titan.purch.ans.ne
 t>
References: <199809230020.AAA19961@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980923085408.008f18e0@popmail.voicenet.com>

>1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).
>

I worked a lot with the System 7 back in the early 70's and wrote the code
on it (TPMM)
that controlled the first On-Line ATM in the US. It was at a small bank in
central NJ. The
ATM (2984 I think) was remote to a System 7. The files were transferred at
night to a System 3
by carrying the disk pack across the room. The ATM was called "Tin Teller".
The bank
was Hunterton County Trust. Never forget the day when testing it the
machine at the branch
with my young kids along, the looks on their faces when they saw money come
out of the
slot on the wall.
               gene@ehrich
   http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale


From william at ans.net  Wed Sep 23 08:16:55 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923091426.14689A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:

Instructions ("destructions" as Greenback and Stilletto would say) like
this are common in military tech manuals - at least ones that have even
the smallest chance of being near the front.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 22 20:37:22 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
References: <m0zLcJm-000IyMC@p850ug1> <36087FD5.F96192FC@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <360850D2.7312302F@sprintmail.com>



Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> Hokay, we've had enough discussion about making the cases pretty for
> the groundlings to admire.  They don't count.  What matters is whether
> or not the thing works.

I must disagree with you on this matter. Cosmetic appearance matters very
much to me.A working computer is also just as important.
I will buy a Crappy looking computer for parts, but for my collection of
keepers I want it clean, Pristine, in fact if I find a computer for sale
still in the box with manuals, cables and everything in tact, I get
somewhat aroused like seeing a beautiful woman.. <Grin>
I know, I'm a sick man...
--Phil




From jruschme at exit109.com  Wed Sep 23 08:32:36 1998
From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923091426.14689A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from William Donzelli at "Sep 23, 98 09:16:55 am"
Message-ID: <199809231332.JAA05058@crobin.home.org>

> > The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
> > on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:
> 
> Instructions ("destructions" as Greenback and Stilletto would say) like
> this are common in military tech manuals - at least ones that have even
> the smallest chance of being near the front.

This one hits close to home...

My previous job involved developing software for the Army's Maneuver Control
System. The target environment being a GTE-ruggedized Sparc 20.

One of the longstanding issues that had not been resolved was the
implementation of the "Emergency Purge" procedure. Basically, this was the
menu option that the operator was supposed to select in the event of
imminent capture, etc. It was supposed to do something like a wipe of the
disk within some relatively short time requirement.

The problem was, no one ever could write or buy a piece of software which
could wipe the disk to the satisfaction of the security people within the
allotted time.

About a week before I left, the decision was made to have the E-Purge menu
option do nothing more than pop up a dialog box which read (approx.)
"Emergency Purge: Please destroy remove the disk and destroy IAW your
Operating Procedures".

I'll reserve further comment...
<<<John>>>
(who personally preferred the idea of /dev/thermite)


From blakeman at creative-net.net  Wed Sep 23 09:15:18 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Stains caused by Cigarette smoke
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923002653.6796C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36090274.B04EB261@creative-net.net>

Sam-I-Am Ismail wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> > Sam Ismail wrote:
> >
> > > Use Touch of Oranges for crayon or grease pencil.  Melts it like butter,
> > > no scrubbing or hard rubbing required.
> >
> > Lighter fluid works just as good on them since they are petroleum based and so is
> > lighter fluid. I write with grease pencil on the fronts of machines in storage to
> > know what they have and the condition. When I do a finish cleaning to ship or
> > deliver I just take a little lighter fluid on the writing and it's gone.
>
> But is lighter fluid completely harmless to whatever surface you are
> cleaning?

Unless it's porous, it is generally not going to affect the paint or finish. I wouldn't
use it on unsealed wood or cloth as it will soak in and possibly stain it. It will make
glues that are rubber cement based loosen though, so keep it away from stickers and
logos that you don't want loose.



From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep 23 09:31:24 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980922191407.kyrrin@jps.net>
References: <36083B41.6E0D69B4@creative-net.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980923093124.00cd8d80@pc>

At 07:08 PM 9/22/98 -0700, kyrrin@jps.net wrote:
>
>        It tops out at 2400bps, speed-wise, and was designed to handle
>synchronous transmission only. There's a weak possibility that a
>commercial datacomm company might still be interested in it, but I've
>seen people having trouble -giving- those things away at swap meets.

Apart from the "gee, that really was slow" potential for demonstration,
recreating the past, is there *any* use for old modems?

- John



From william at ans.net  Wed Sep 23 09:36:58 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980923093124.00cd8d80@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923103530.14689G-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Apart from the "gee, that really was slow" potential for demonstration,
> recreating the past, is there *any* use for old modems?

Isn't that true for most of our old computers?

Enjoy them (or whatever you collect, even shoes) for what they are...

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From fzammett at voicenet.com  Wed Sep 23 09:42:19 1998
From: fzammett at voicenet.com (Frank W. Zammetti)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
References: <36083B41.6E0D69B4@creative-net.net> <3.0.1.32.19980923093124.00cd8d80@pc>
Message-ID: <360908CB.85FA53C8@voicenet.com>

Sure: poor-man's Network Interface Card.  I wrote a Ethernet IPX/SPX
translation program for a Commodore 64 and hooked the thing up to my
network (with a hardware converter between the modem and the hub of
course) at home.  No real purpose to it for me, but it was a fun
project.  Granted, the connection is slow as balls, but there it is
anyway!

*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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John Foust wrote:
> 
> At 07:08 PM 9/22/98 -0700, kyrrin@jps.net wrote:
> >
> >        It tops out at 2400bps, speed-wise, and was designed to handle
> >synchronous transmission only. There's a weak possibility that a
> >commercial datacomm company might still be interested in it, but I've
> >seen people having trouble -giving- those things away at swap meets.
> 
> Apart from the "gee, that really was slow" potential for demonstration,
> recreating the past, is there *any* use for old modems?
> 
> - John


From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Wed Sep 23 10:42:19 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
Message-ID: <199809231540.KAA20830@falcon.inetnebr.com>


>How about what should be line 0, using the gun to prevent the rest of
>the instructions being necessary?
>

You mean: 1) use the gun to shoot the computer (shades of the 3 laws of
robotics), or 2) use the gun to shoot the politicians who started the war?  

                                        Bill Richman
                                        incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                                        (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                                         microcomputer simulator!)



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 23 11:03:15 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
Message-ID: <199809231603.AA24195@world.std.com>


< Apart from the "gee, that really was slow" potential for demonstration,
< recreating the past, is there *any* use for old modems?

I still use a 2400 Zoom pocket modem with my PX8.  The PX8 isn't fast 
enough to keep up with anything over 9600 and 2400 is generally the 
slowest most services will go now (some will not go under 9600).

Allison



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Wed Sep 23 11:19:12 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809230129.AA29376@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809231612.JAA27136@mxu4.u.washington.edu>

At 09:29 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>< We just to joke that Z80EMU on a Pentium was faster than any Z80 process
>< you could actually buy, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible these days t
>< create a 38 pin I/O port and build an "ICE" in software...
>< --Chuck
>
>thats a tall claim as the z80 is available up to 20mhz and z180s to 33mhz.
>Then you can also use he Z380 is z80 native mode (it uses fewer clocks
>per instruction than any other z80) at 20mhz (faster are supposed to 
>exist.).

Of course this was before the Z280 was in production. However I called a
friend last night who still uses this setup and he said that a PII/400
reports an equivalent Z80 speed of 63.2Mhz. Guess it depends on the PC. He
did say that L80 and M80 were quite snappy :-)

--Chuck



From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Wed Sep 23 11:19:31 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Fwd: RE: Used DEC equipment for SALE !
Message-ID: <CEFCCHJPJAKKBAAA@my-dejanews.com>

CLASSICCMP folks...

    This is a list of DEC equipment that's either available now or soon will be. If any of you are interested, please contact the originator directly. His name is Craig Bence, and he can be reached as:

    craigb@frzr.com

    Thanks. Attachment follows.

--

--------- Forwarded Message ---------

DATE: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:05:44
From: "Craig Bence" <craigb@frzr.com>
To: <kyrrin@jps.net>

Here is a text file for you.

-=-=-=- <snip> -=-=-=-

Make    Model   Serial Num      Description     Location        Availability
                   DEC     DV-31ATBAA      108755  "KA41-1(4MB,FPU) RZ23-EG"       Omaha   Now
                   DEC     LA120-AA        NA3089  LA120-BA (W/out Numeric keypad) Omaha   Now
                   DEC     TK50Z-FA        000021  "TK50 Contrl, Exp Box, 120V"    Omaha   Now
                   DEC     RZ23-E  000018  "104MB Winch.Disk 3.5"" Preconfig"      Omaha   Now
                   DEC     RZ23-E  000019  "104MB Winch.Disk 3.5"" Preconfig"      Omaha   Now
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 729654  MicroVax 3100 Software Support  Omaha   Now
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000020  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drv/Add on"   Omaha   Now
                   Data Products   B300    N47065  300 LPM Printer Omaha   Now
                   DEC     DV-31DTAAA      0D3759  MV3100/10E VMS T/S Base USA     Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     LA120-AA        F08543  LA120-BA (W/Out Numeric keypad) Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     LA120-AA        N91945  LA120-BA (W/Out Numeric keypad) Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        0Z2693  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        353830  Mono AmberText Terminal Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        606499  Mono AmberText Terminal Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     DSH32-BA        000025  Microvax 2000 Communications    Fremont 10/01/98
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 0D3759  Microvax 3100 Software Support  Fremont 10/01/98
                   DXTRA   MV 2000 000025  Microvax 2000 Software Support  Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        018607  Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC       Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        018608  Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC       Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        4L9591  Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC       Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        5S7624  Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC       Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        685335  Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC       Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000026  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on" Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000027  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on" Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     SZ12X-HA        000023  TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB   Fremont 10/01/98
                   Data Products   B300    N21368  300 LPM Printer Fremont 10/01/98
                   DEC     DSRVG-AA        05425A  DECServer 90L   Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     DV-31CT2AA      005425  Microvax 3100 (KA41-A)  Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     LA424-CA        1P4C37  136 Column Printer      Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     LA100-AA        NN0195  "ENG Lang, Dot Mtrx Term, KSR, 240"     Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     LA120-DA        NN2925  LA120 ksr w Numeric Keypad      Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     LA120-RB        NN5002  Printer Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT510-AA        05425B  Terminal White  Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT510-AA        05425C  Terminal White  Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     TK50Z-BA        003QAY  TK50-AA w/ Nema Cabinet Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        146689  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        619887  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        744751  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT320-C2        9CF214  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     LG02-CA M94343  600 LPM Text/Graphic Printer    Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     RZ23-EF 101QL4  104MB DRV/Upgrade VS/MV3100     Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 005425  Microvax 3100 Software Support  Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     VT420-C2        05425D  Mono Amber Terminal no KB/PWC   Phoenix 11/01/98
                   DEC     DV-31GTAB9      OPH341  MV3100-40 2 User Open-VMS SYST  East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     450ZM-B9        3KP654  Microvax 3100 Model 40 SBB      East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     LA424-A2        346208  136 Column Impact Printer       East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     LA424-CA        346231  136 Column Printer      East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     TZ30-AA H341TZ  95MB Half Height Tape   East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-CA        8V1338  Mono Amber Terminal USA East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-CA        8V1339  Mono Amber Terminal USA East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-CA        8V1340  Mono Amber Terminal USA East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-CA        8V1341  Mono Amber Terminal USA East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   N       VT420-CA        8V1342  Mono Amber Terminal USA East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     RZ25-E  00341A  "426MB 3.5"" SCSI Disk Drive"   East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     RZ25-E  00341B  "426MB 3.5"" SCSI Disk Drive"   East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     SZ12X-HA        9000S9  TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB   East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     SZ12X-HA        903786  TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB   East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   FUJIT   M3041C  030135  Fujitsu M3041C  East Dubuque    02/01/99
                   DEC     DV-31DTAAA      8D7452  MV3100/10E VMS  Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-RA        NE4903  Printer Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-BA        N09850  LA120 120V/60HZ EIA Num Pad     Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        OCF915  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        OCH075  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        1R9867  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        2R3671  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        3BM687  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        742143  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        864430  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        943806  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     RZ24-EG 000001  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Fact Ins"       Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     RZ24-EG 000002  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Fact Ins"       Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 8D7452  Microvax 3100 Software Support  Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     SZ12X-HA        301GED  TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB   Amarillo        03/01/99
                   Data Products   8300    N21700  300 LPM Printer Amarillo        03/01/99
                   DEC     DV-31DTAAA      0F6459  MV3100/10E VMS 1/S Base USA     Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-BA        NF9304  Printer Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-BB        NN2813  Printer Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        0K9182  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        0L8531  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        1L1117  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        457736  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        537029  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        590686  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     TZ30-AA 000010  95MB Half Height Tape   Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     DSH32-BA        4DE366  Microvax 2000 Communications    Garden City     04/01/99
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 0F6459  Microvax 3100 Software Support  Garden City     04/01/99
                   DXTRA   MV 2000 4DE366  Microvax 2000 Software Support  Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-AA        612268  Mono White Terminal USA Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     SZ03B-BA        000008  209MB Disk Drive        Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000009  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on" Garden City     04/01/99
                   Data Products   B300    N45046  300 LPM Printer Garden City     04/01/99
                   DEC     DV-31DTAAA      0D3755  MV3100/10E VMS 1/S Base USA     Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-DA        NN6889  "LA120 KSR w/Numeric kypad, Univ"       Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     LA120-RA        N60640  Printer Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT510-AA        511891  Terminal White  Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        101183  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT320-C2        204241  Mono Amber Text Terminal        Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     DSH32-BA        000003  Microvax 2000 Communications    Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DXTRA   MV 3100 0D3755  Microvax 3100 Software Support  Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DXTRA   MV 2000 000003  Microvax 2000 Software Support  Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-C2        000001  Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc   Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-C2        203778  Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc   Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-C2        714107  Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc   Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     VT420-C2        714168  Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc   Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     RZ26L-EK        NF9304  1.05GB Disk Drive       Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000002  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Add on" Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     RZ24-EF 000006  "209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Add on" Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   DEC     SZ12X-HA        0043MF  TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB   Sioux Falls     05/01/99
                   Data Products   B300    N45044  300 LPM Printer Sioux Falls     05/01/99






-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
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-------------- next part --------------
Make	Model	Serial Num	Description	Location	Availability
DEC	DV-31ATBAA	108755	"KA41-1(4MB,FPU) RZ23-EG"	Omaha	Now
DEC	LA120-AA	NA3089	LA120-BA (W/out Numeric keypad)	Omaha	Now
DEC	TK50Z-FA	000021	"TK50 Contrl, Exp Box, 120V"	Omaha	Now
DEC	RZ23-E	000018	"104MB Winch.Disk 3.5"" Preconfig"	Omaha	Now
DEC	RZ23-E	000019	"104MB Winch.Disk 3.5"" Preconfig"	Omaha	Now
DXTRA	MV 3100	729654	MicroVax 3100 Software Support	Omaha	Now
DEC	RZ24-EF	000020	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drv/Add on"	Omaha	Now
Data Products	B300	N47065	300 LPM Printer	Omaha	Now
DEC	DV-31DTAAA	0D3759	MV3100/10E VMS T/S Base USA	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	LA120-AA	F08543	LA120-BA (W/Out Numeric keypad)	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	LA120-AA	N91945	LA120-BA (W/Out Numeric keypad)	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	0Z2693	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	353830	Mono AmberText Terminal	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	606499	Mono AmberText Terminal	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	DSH32-BA	000025	Microvax 2000 Communications	Fremont	10/01/98
DXTRA	MV 3100	0D3759	Microvax 3100 Software Support	Fremont	10/01/98
DXTRA	MV 2000	000025	Microvax 2000 Software Support	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	018607	Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	018608	Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	4L9591	Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	5S7624	Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	685335	Mono Amber Term No KB/PWC	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	RZ24-EF	000026	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on"	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	RZ24-EF	000027	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on"	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	SZ12X-HA	000023	TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB	Fremont	10/01/98
Data Products	B300	N21368	300 LPM Printer	Fremont	10/01/98
DEC	DSRVG-AA	05425A	DECServer 90L	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	DV-31CT2AA	005425	Microvax 3100 (KA41-A)	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	LA424-CA	1P4C37	136 Column Printer	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	LA100-AA	NN0195	"ENG Lang, Dot Mtrx Term, KSR, 240"	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	LA120-DA	NN2925	LA120 ksr w Numeric Keypad	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	LA120-RB	NN5002	Printer	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT510-AA	05425B	Terminal White	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT510-AA	05425C	Terminal White	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	TK50Z-BA	003QAY	TK50-AA w/ Nema Cabinet	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	146689	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	619887	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	744751	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT320-C2	9CF214	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	LG02-CA	M94343	600 LPM Text/Graphic Printer	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	RZ23-EF	101QL4	104MB DRV/Upgrade VS/MV3100	Phoenix	11/01/98
DXTRA	MV 3100	005425	Microvax 3100 Software Support	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	VT420-C2	05425D	Mono Amber Terminal no KB/PWC	Phoenix	11/01/98
DEC	DV-31GTAB9	OPH341	MV3100-40 2 User Open-VMS SYST	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	450ZM-B9	3KP654	Microvax 3100 Model 40 SBB	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	LA424-A2	346208	136 Column Impact Printer	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	LA424-CA	346231	136 Column Printer	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	TZ30-AA	H341TZ	95MB Half Height Tape	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	VT420-CA	8V1338	Mono Amber Terminal USA	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	VT420-CA	8V1339	Mono Amber Terminal USA	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	VT420-CA	8V1340	Mono Amber Terminal USA	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	VT420-CA	8V1341	Mono Amber Terminal USA	East Dubuque	02/01/99
N	VT420-CA	8V1342	Mono Amber Terminal USA	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	RZ25-E	00341A	"426MB 3.5"" SCSI Disk Drive"	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	RZ25-E	00341B	"426MB 3.5"" SCSI Disk Drive"	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	SZ12X-HA	9000S9	TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	SZ12X-HA	903786	TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB	East Dubuque	02/01/99
FUJIT	M3041C	030135	Fujitsu M3041C	East Dubuque	02/01/99
DEC	DV-31DTAAA	8D7452	MV3100/10E VMS	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	LA120-RA	NE4903	Printer	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	LA120-BA	N09850	LA120 120V/60HZ EIA Num Pad	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	OCF915	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	OCH075	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	1R9867	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	2R3671	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	3BM687	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	742143	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	864430	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	943806	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	RZ24-EG	000001	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Fact Ins"	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	RZ24-EG	000002	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Fact Ins"	Amarillo	03/01/99
DXTRA	MV 3100	8D7452	Microvax 3100 Software Support	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	SZ12X-HA	301GED	TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB	Amarillo	03/01/99
Data Products	8300	N21700	300 LPM Printer	Amarillo	03/01/99
DEC	DV-31DTAAA	0F6459	MV3100/10E VMS 1/S Base USA	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	LA120-BA	NF9304	Printer	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	LA120-BB	NN2813	Printer	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	0K9182	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	0L8531	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	1L1117	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	457736	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	537029	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	590686	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	TZ30-AA	000010	95MB Half Height Tape	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	DSH32-BA	4DE366	Microvax 2000 Communications	Garden City	04/01/99
DXTRA	MV 3100	0F6459	Microvax 3100 Software Support	Garden City	04/01/99
DXTRA	MV 2000	4DE366	Microvax 2000 Software Support	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	VT420-AA	612268	Mono White Terminal USA	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	SZ03B-BA	000008	209MB Disk Drive	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	RZ24-EF	000009	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/ADD on"	Garden City	04/01/99
Data Products	B300	N45046	300 LPM Printer	Garden City	04/01/99
DEC	DV-31DTAAA	0D3755	MV3100/10E VMS 1/S Base USA	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	LA120-DA	NN6889	"LA120 KSR w/Numeric kypad, Univ"	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	LA120-RA	N60640	Printer	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT510-AA	511891	Terminal White	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	101183	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT320-C2	204241	Mono Amber Text Terminal	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	DSH32-BA	000003	Microvax 2000 Communications	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DXTRA	MV 3100	0D3755	Microvax 3100 Software Support	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DXTRA	MV 2000	000003	Microvax 2000 Software Support	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT420-C2	000001	Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT420-C2	203778	Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT420-C2	714107	Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	VT420-C2	714168	Mono Amber Terminal no KB/pwc	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	RZ26L-EK	NF9304	1.05GB Disk Drive	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	RZ24-EF	000002	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Add on"	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	RZ24-EF	000006	"209MB 3.5"" Disk Drive/Add on"	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
DEC	SZ12X-HA	0043MF	TZ30 95MB Tape Drive-Dual CAB	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
Data Products	B300	N45044	300 LPM Printer	Sioux Falls	05/01/99
From Marty at itgonline.com  Wed Sep 23 11:43:35 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer so
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.124323.1767.141152@smtp.itgonline.com>

 
 During my last year in high school in Kensington, Maryland in 1969 an 
 IBM 1103 was installed with about twenty terminals for student use. I 
 never used the 1103 although I 'majored' in data processing which 
 included IBM EAM (Electronic Accounting Machine) plug board wiring and 
 operation (sorting, collating, keypunching, verifying, gang punching 
 printing etc. etc. by the way, if anybody has an old plug board 
 available for sale or trade I would be most grateful). I LOVED the old 
 punch card gear. It was fun wiring plug boards. 
 
 Marty


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socke
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/22/98 11:10 PM


 > Yeah man! Where???????!!!!!!!   I'll rent a tent and camp out at the place 
 > which has one until either they get tired of it or that Y2K thing obsoletes 
 > it. W. Donzelli would be camping right next to me I think.
 
 No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.
 
 > Seriously, that would be, in my opinion, the most excellent find! As I 
 > mentioned, I have never heard of any around these days. They were, I
 > believe, not the typical mainline computers one would hear of in business 
 > like the S/360's and S/370's. Weren't they more used in R&D and academia 
 > because of their ability to handle number crunching not so much as
 > databases like a business application would?
 
 I know little about 1103s, but they were indeed built for number crunching 
 for people that could not afford a big S/360. The 1103 is related to the 
 1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).
 
 William Donzelli
 william@ans.net
 
 
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From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Wed Sep 23 12:04:45 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F50629477B@RED-MSG-43>

I have a nice one, I just need the special DOS for it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 12:50 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list


Kai,

  I have a bunch of extra HP 150s. How many do you want?

   Joe

At 03:26 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Here's a PARTIAL list of the stuff I'll have in my booth at the Vintage
>Computer Festival this weekend, followed by my want list.
>
>FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:
>
>- Apple II (original) systems (2), good cosmetics, neither working, one
>needs PS, the other TLC
>- Apple II/Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives, drives only
>(3)
>- Apple ///, tested working, plus optional ProFile hard disk and Apple ///
>ProFile controller card
>- Apple Lisa (Mac XL), nice shape, powers on, needs Sun SCSI card, keyboard
>has 3 wrong keys
>- Apple Macintosh 128, beautiful!  Correct original mouse, keyboard and
>Apple-logo power cord
>- Atari 65XE, memory error on boot
>- Atari 130XE, tested working, plus floppy drive, cable, power supplies
>- Atari 800, the original Atari 8-bit, nice shape, tested working, with
>power supply and Atari BASIC book
>- Atari ST, untested
>- Coleco ADAM, tested working, with keyboard & printer
>- Colecovision classic game system, mint condition, with 2 controllers,
>power supply, 1 game
>- Commodore 128D, rare version with separate keyboard/built-in diskette
>drive, tested working
>- Commodore Amiga 500, technician's special
>- Commodore Amiga 1000, the first Amiga, tested working, with 1MB Insider
>and 256K cartridge
>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working, with Multi-Unit 64
>and Portable WordStar ROM
>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working except some keys,
>needs cleaning?
>- IBM PC Convertible 5140, looks great, tested working, with battery
>- IBM Portable PC 5150, the original IBM PC in a portable case, flawless
>condition
>- Sharp PC1500 Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
>working
>- Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals,
tested
>working
>- SoftStrip Reader!!! Read those barcoded programs along the edge of
>magazine pages! In original box
>- Sony 15" universal color monitor, accepts Composite, S-Video, Analog RGB,
>Digital RGB
>- Timex-Sinclair ZX1000, tested working
>- TRS-80 Model 100, 32K, tested working, missing battery cover, with Model
>100 book
>- TRS-80 Color Computer 1, tested working
>- Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU
>
>WANT LIST:
>
>- Most anything S-100 bus related, especially but not limited to MITS,
IMSAI
>
>- Documentation or Sales Literature for classic systems
>
>- Altair 6800
>- Commodore PET Floppy System
>- Corvus Concept
>- Dynalogic Hyperion
>- Exidy Sorcerer
>- Heath H8, H11, drives
>- IBM AT
>- Ohio Scientific systems
>- Osborne Vixen
>- Processor Technology HELIOS
>- RCA 1802 machines (e.g. COSMAC ELF, VIP)
>- Rockwell AIM-65
>- Sinclair ZX80
>- Smoke Signal Broadcasting systems, drives
>- SWTPC systems, drives
>
>- Optical serial paper tape reader
>- Apple Lisa Office System Diskettes, Unserialized
>- HP150 DOS
>- Apricot F-Series DOS
>- Apple Macintosh Portable Battery
>
>And of course, can't fail to mention the Apple I, Apple Lisa I, Mark 8,
>Scelbi 8H, Sphere, & Xerox Star.
>
>See you at VCF!!
>
>Kai
>
>


From firebird at exit109.com  Wed Sep 23 12:15:29 1998
From: firebird at exit109.com (Jim Winer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Osborne 1
Message-ID: <199809231715.NAA18230@hiway1.exit109.com>

I have an Osborne 1 in good operating condition with all 
original software and some additional software looking for a 
good home. Anyone there interested?

This email address was published in the Asbury Park Press.


Jim Winer
firebird@exit109.com
http://www.mimidolls.com
http://www.WeaverOfWebs.com


From cfandt at servtech.com  Wed Sep 23 08:22:36 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <980922223211.246@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <199809231741.RAA02898@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 22:32 22-09-98 -0400, Tim Shoppa stated he performed a very important
service:

>
>Indeed, it is now there:
>
>http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar
e/rqdx3.mfmparameters
>

Thank you from me too, Tim!!!!   I'm going to later this fall/winter try to
start-up my MicroPDP-11/73 and MicroVAX-II machines (along with an 11/34A,
11/24 and 11/23, maybe the VAX-11/730.) Of course, there are a couple of
RD's involved within the uPDP and uVAX here. This info could be extremely
important if I need to start from scratch with a 'new' fixed disk like Zane
is trying to do. 

You see, until now, I have never had any PDP-11's or VAXen to work with
and, importantly, learn from.

Now, the doggone garage is full of those danged things and I intend to keep
some of them in my collection. 

I am to be considered a greenhorn at using/administering DEC machines and
things like this that come out help me to ever so slightly add to the bits
of info I'm trying to gather/learn. Thanks again, Tim.

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From cfandt at servtech.com  Wed Sep 23 08:32:04 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket 
   (Off  topic)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922225702.4453B-100000@titan.purch.ans.ne
 t>
References: <199809230020.AAA19961@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <199809231741.RAA02901@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 23:08 22-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Yeah man! Where???????!!!!!!!   I'll rent a tent and camp out at the place
>> which has one until either they get tired of it or that Y2K thing obsoletes
>> it. W. Donzelli would be camping right next to me I think.
>
>No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.

Oh no you won't ;)  I'll get a set of those new Michelin Zero Pressure
tires (ones which the TV ad shows a 3/4" hole being drilled in the sidewall
and the car driving away; 55 MPH for 50 miles... [howzat work anyway?])

>
>> Seriously, that would be, in my opinion, the most excellent find! As I
>> mentioned, I have never heard of any around these days. They were, I
>> believe, not the typical mainline computers one would hear of in business
>> like the S/360's and S/370's. Weren't they more used in R&D and academia
>> because of their ability to handle number crunching not so much as
>> databases like a business application would? 
>
>I know little about 1103s, but they were indeed built for number crunching
>for people that could not afford a big S/360. The 1103 is related to the
>1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).

You must have been tired at 23:08 when you wrote this :)  It's an IBM 1130. 

Since the 1130 is related to the 1800, I would like to lookup info on the
1800 machine. Any online leads?

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From erd at infinet.com  Wed Sep 23 12:52:29 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <199809231741.RAA02901@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Sep 23, 98 09:32:04 am
Message-ID: <199809231752.NAA28219@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> At 23:08 22-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
> >No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.
> 
> Oh no you won't ;)  I'll get a set of those new Michelin Zero Pressure
> tires (ones which the TV ad shows a 3/4" hole being drilled in the sidewall
> and the car driving away; 55 MPH for 50 miles... [howzat work anyway?])

Special sidewalls that are stiff enough to resist being folded over and
cut by the rim or rubbed thin by the consant compression/expansion of
rolling under the weight of the car and back out  It's difficult to 
explain without diagrams.  The pressure monitoring system, BTW, is
required so that you, the driver, know that you have a flat and not to
drive on it too fast or too far.

> >I know little about 1103s, but they were indeed built for number crunching
> >for people that could not afford a big S/360. The 1103 is related to the
> >1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).
> 
> You must have been tired at 23:08 when you wrote this :)  It's an IBM 1130. 

Wasn't there an 1103, too?  I remember being confused while talking
computers with someone in college - he was thinking of an IBM 1103,
while I was thinking of a DEC LSI 11/03.  Maybe _he_ was confused.

I never got to program it, but the EE department at OSU had an 1130 with
a couple of RK05-style disks in a forgotten lab when I was a college
freshman.  ISTR it was short, but wide, being built into a desk.

-ethan


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Wed Sep 23 12:53:26 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:50 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <980923135326.29c@trailing-edge.com>

>Thank you from me too, Tim!!!!

You're welcome!

>   I'm going to later this fall/winter try to
>start-up my MicroPDP-11/73 and MicroVAX-II machines (along with an 11/34A,
>11/24 and 11/23, maybe the VAX-11/730.) Of course, there are a couple of
>RD's involved within the uPDP and uVAX here.

I've been slow in putting RQDX3 details on sunsite's PDP-11 archive,
I will admit, mainly because I despise RD-series MFM drives.
Most of this is because I don't get called in until the RD drive is
very sick and dying, and of course the users didn't make any backups
for the past decade!  You better believe that I charge a sizable fee
for data recovery/system restoration in this case!

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From william at ans.net  Wed Sep 23 13:00:38 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket    (Off  topic)
In-Reply-To: <199809231741.RAA02901@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923135815.14689K-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Oh no you won't ;)  I'll get a set of those new Michelin Zero Pressure
> tires (ones which the TV ad shows a 3/4" hole being drilled in the sidewall
> and the car driving away; 55 MPH for 50 miles... [howzat work anyway?])

When it involves Big Blue Big Iron, I could probably figure something else
to do to your car. 

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Wed Sep 23 13:02:41 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <199809231752.NAA28219@user2.infinet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923140104.14689L-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I never got to program it, but the EE department at OSU had an 1130 with
> a couple of RK05-style disks in a forgotten lab when I was a college
> freshman.  ISTR it was short, but wide, being built into a desk.

When was this? What happened to the machine? Old minis (and I would veture
to call the 1130 a mini) are still to be found in universities.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 23 13:57:29 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <360850D2.7312302F@sprintmail.com>
References: <m0zLcJm-000IyMC@p850ug1>
 <36087FD5.F96192FC@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980923135729.453fe2aa@intellistar.net>

At 09:37 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

 I find a computer for sale
>still in the box with manuals, cables and everything in tact, I get
>somewhat aroused like seeing a beautiful woman.. <Grin>
>I know, I'm a sick man...
>--Phil


 Phil,  You need to get out more!

   Joe

  PS  I know where there's a NIB TI-99.  I have a LNIB Mattel Aquarius,
interested?



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 23 14:00:59 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <199809231332.JAA05058@crobin.home.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923091426.14689A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980923140059.453fb078@intellistar.net>

At 09:32 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:


><<<John>>>
>(who personally preferred the idea of /dev/thermite)
>

  John,  What was wrong with /dev/thermite?   That's what has been used for
years.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 23 14:14:10 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F50629477B@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980923141410.44af4418@intellistar.net>

Kai,

   Which do you want, Dos 2.1 or 3.2?

    Joe

At 10:04 AM 9/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a nice one, I just need the special DOS for it...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 12:50 PM
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list
>
>
>Kai,
>
>  I have a bunch of extra HP 150s. How many do you want?
>
>   Joe
>
>At 03:26 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Here's a PARTIAL list of the stuff I'll have in my booth at the Vintage
>>Computer Festival this weekend, followed by my want list.
>>
>>FOR SALE/TRADE AT VCF:
>>
>>- Apple II (original) systems (2), good cosmetics, neither working, one
>>needs PS, the other TLC
>>- Apple II/Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives, drives only
>>(3)
>>- Apple ///, tested working, plus optional ProFile hard disk and Apple ///
>>ProFile controller card
>>- Apple Lisa (Mac XL), nice shape, powers on, needs Sun SCSI card, keyboard
>>has 3 wrong keys
>>- Apple Macintosh 128, beautiful!  Correct original mouse, keyboard and
>>Apple-logo power cord
>>- Atari 65XE, memory error on boot
>>- Atari 130XE, tested working, plus floppy drive, cable, power supplies
>>- Atari 800, the original Atari 8-bit, nice shape, tested working, with
>>power supply and Atari BASIC book
>>- Atari ST, untested
>>- Coleco ADAM, tested working, with keyboard & printer
>>- Colecovision classic game system, mint condition, with 2 controllers,
>>power supply, 1 game
>>- Commodore 128D, rare version with separate keyboard/built-in diskette
>>drive, tested working
>>- Commodore Amiga 500, technician's special
>>- Commodore Amiga 1000, the first Amiga, tested working, with 1MB Insider
>>and 256K cartridge
>>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working, with Multi-Unit 64
>>and Portable WordStar ROM
>>- Epson PX-8 Geneva, CP/M notebook PC, tested working except some keys,
>>needs cleaning?
>>- IBM PC Convertible 5140, looks great, tested working, with battery
>>- IBM Portable PC 5150, the original IBM PC in a portable case, flawless
>>condition
>>- Sharp PC1500 Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals, tested
>>working
>>- Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer with carrying case, printer, manuals,
>tested
>>working
>>- SoftStrip Reader!!! Read those barcoded programs along the edge of
>>magazine pages! In original box
>>- Sony 15" universal color monitor, accepts Composite, S-Video, Analog RGB,
>>Digital RGB
>>- Timex-Sinclair ZX1000, tested working
>>- TRS-80 Model 100, 32K, tested working, missing battery cover, with Model
>>100 book
>>- TRS-80 Color Computer 1, tested working
>>- Vectrex vector-graphic stand-alone home video game system, M6800 CPU
>>
>>WANT LIST:
>>
>>- Most anything S-100 bus related, especially but not limited to MITS,
>IMSAI
>>
>>- Documentation or Sales Literature for classic systems
>>
>>- Altair 6800
>>- Commodore PET Floppy System
>>- Corvus Concept
>>- Dynalogic Hyperion
>>- Exidy Sorcerer
>>- Heath H8, H11, drives
>>- IBM AT
>>- Ohio Scientific systems
>>- Osborne Vixen
>>- Processor Technology HELIOS
>>- RCA 1802 machines (e.g. COSMAC ELF, VIP)
>>- Rockwell AIM-65
>>- Sinclair ZX80
>>- Smoke Signal Broadcasting systems, drives
>>- SWTPC systems, drives
>>
>>- Optical serial paper tape reader
>>- Apple Lisa Office System Diskettes, Unserialized
>>- HP150 DOS
>>- Apricot F-Series DOS
>>- Apple Macintosh Portable Battery
>>
>>And of course, can't fail to mention the Apple I, Apple Lisa I, Mark 8,
>>Scelbi 8H, Sphere, & Xerox Star.
>>
>>See you at VCF!!
>>
>>Kai
>>
>>
>



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Wed Sep 23 13:17:16 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Osborne 1
In-Reply-To: <199809231715.NAA18230@hiway1.exit109.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980923111543.6285B-100000@lafleur>

Hi Jim,

Ya! I've been looking for an Osbourne 1 for a while now, with miserable
luck. The one that I bought for $20 plus shipping doesn't work and is
miserable looking to boot. If you still have it, I'd jump at a chance to
take it off your hands. Where are you located?

Cheers,

Aaron

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Jim Winer wrote:

> I have an Osborne 1 in good operating condition with all 
> original software and some additional software looking for a 
> good home. Anyone there interested?
> 
> This email address was published in the Asbury Park Press.
> 
> 
> Jim Winer
> firebird@exit109.com
> http://www.mimidolls.com
> http://www.WeaverOfWebs.com
> 



From erd at infinet.com  Wed Sep 23 13:25:09 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923140104.14689L-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 23, 98 02:02:41 pm
Message-ID: <199809231825.OAA28761@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> > I never got to program it, but the EE department at OSU had an 1130 with
> > a couple of RK05-style disks in a forgotten lab when I was a college
> > freshman.  ISTR it was short, but wide, being built into a desk.
> 
> When was this? What happened to the machine? Old minis (and I would veture
> to call the 1130 a mini) are still to be found in universities.

This was in 1984.  I do not know what happened to it.  It was not in daily use,
even back then.

I can make some inquries, but I don't hold out any hope.

-ethan




From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 23 13:42:22 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <005d01bde679$c4e1b700$78f8fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923133810.22262C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     On page B6, in an article titled "Yet Another 'Father' Of the
> Microprocessor Wants Recognition", there is discussion of Ray Holt, an
> ex-Navy engineer who claims to have created the microprocessor in 1969, two
> years before Hoff, Faggin, and Mazor created the integrated processor.

I finally read the article today.  It's interesting that Hoff et al define
a microprocessor just as I do:

"But we were the first to put a computer's central processing unit on a
single chip."

The article goes on to say that Mr. Holt argues that a microprocessor
doesn't have to be on one chip, but I didn't see any attempt to offer an
alternative definition of microprocessor.

-- Doug



From william at ans.net  Wed Sep 23 13:50:41 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <199809231825.OAA28761@user2.infinet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923144753.14689O-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> This was in 1984.  I do not know what happened to it.  It was not in daily use,
> even back then.
> 
> I can make some inquries, but I don't hold out any hope.

But you can never be sure...

One of RCS/RIs first hauls, about three years ago, consisted of (amongst
other things) similarly vintaged Packard-Bell pb250 and DEC LINC-8
machines!

Please ask around.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 14:03:23 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923133810.22262C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923115840.6796P-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> >     On page B6, in an article titled "Yet Another 'Father' Of the
> > Microprocessor Wants Recognition", there is discussion of Ray Holt, an
> > ex-Navy engineer who claims to have created the microprocessor in 1969, two
> > years before Hoff, Faggin, and Mazor created the integrated processor.
> 
> I finally read the article today.  It's interesting that Hoff et al define
> a microprocessor just as I do:
> 
> "But we were the first to put a computer's central processing unit on a
> single chip."
> 
> The article goes on to say that Mr. Holt argues that a microprocessor
> doesn't have to be on one chip, but I didn't see any attempt to offer an
> alternative definition of microprocessor.

In fact, Holt's design IS a central processing unit on a single chip.  The
article, unfortunately, left out a great amount of detail.  The journalist
spent two months working on an article that did little to explain the
complexity of the issue.

Ray's talk this Saturday will clear a lot of questions up.  Hoff and
Faggin are too biased to be the authorities on what constitutes a
"microprocessor", especially since many other industry veterans disagree
with their opinions.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Wed Sep 23 15:34:29 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Osborne 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980923111543.6285B-100000@lafleur>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980923133300.9474B-100000@lafleur>

Sorry about that....

Bad Pine....bad....

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:

> Hi Jim,



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 23 15:46:34 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
Message-ID: <19980923204634.28330.qmail@hotmail.com>





Shouldn't you destroy the manual too?
>
>> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a 
section
>> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:
>
>Instructions ("destructions" as Greenback and Stilletto would say) like
>this are common in military tech manuals - at least ones that have even
>the smallest chance of being near the front.
>
>William Donzelli
>william@ans.net
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep 23 18:36:31 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
References: <199809231540.KAA20830@falcon.inetnebr.com>
Message-ID: <360985FF.DBF4B331@cnct.com>

Bill Richman wrote:
> 
> >How about what should be line 0, using the gun to prevent the rest of
> >the instructions being necessary?
> >
> 
> You mean: 1) use the gun to shoot the computer (shades of the 3 laws of
> robotics), or 2) use the gun to shoot the politicians who started the war?

Both of those work for me, though I'm partial to the second option.
Problem is, the politicians will never be found anywhere near a
contested front.

(Hey, it's just one anarchist's opinion).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 23 18:32:54 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <13390189681.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <13390189681.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <19980923233254.14285.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote about Stu Grossman's PDP-10 emulator, kx10.

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> wrote:
> [If Stu releases .exe-only]
>
> Eww, that would suck - I doubt he supports ITS, and that's my whole intent
> for finding/emulating/whatever a PDP-10...

Stu didn't ever plan to do binary releases.  The code hasn't even been ported
to anything other than Unix variants.

I'm trying to get in touch with Stu to find out the current status.

Eric




From rcini at email.msn.com  Wed Sep 23 18:09:21 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Re.: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
Message-ID: <002101bde74d$fa765900$0e16fea9@mainoffice>

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:24:36 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
wrote:

>>On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:
>>     On page B6, in an article titled "Yet Another 'Father' Of the
>> Microprocessor Wants Recognition", there is discussion of Ray Holt, an
>> ex-Navy engineer who claims to have created the microprocessor in 1969,
two
>> years before Hoff, Faggin, and Mazor created the integrated processor.

>Actually, its on page B3.

    In the New York City edition (versus the National edition), it does
appear on page B6. Sorry for the confusion.

>>The article only raises more questions.  At the VCF we will answer them,
>>and a new chapter in the history of the development of the microprocessor
>>will be written.

    For those of us unable to make it to this event, will there be a
transcript of Holt's speech?


Rich Cini/WUGNET
  - ClubWin!/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Collector of "classic" computers
<=========  reply separator ==========>





From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 23 12:27:58 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <360850D2.7312302F@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 22, 98 09:37:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLshv-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 23 14:33:12 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <199809230414.OAA29586@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Sep 23, 98 02:14:27 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLuf5-000IySC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 23 14:36:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <19980923070520.10034.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 23, 98 07:05:20 am
Message-ID: <m0zLuiK-000IyTC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 23 14:15:54 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <199809230319.AA08735@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 22, 98 11:19:03 pm
Message-ID: <m0zLuOL-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 19:27:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Re.: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <002101bde74d$fa765900$0e16fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923172429.9099E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

> >>The article only raises more questions.  At the VCF we will answer them,
> >>and a new chapter in the history of the development of the microprocessor
> >>will be written.
> 
>     For those of us unable to make it to this event, will there be a
> transcript of Holt's speech?

Yes.  And a taped version and a video tape will be made.  No definite
plans exist for releasing the video tape of the talk, but an audio
cassette will be produced.

Also, I'll be releasing the URL to the web site that Ray Holt put up to
disseminate information about the F14 Central Air Data Computer on this
list tomorrow.  You guys will be getting this before the rest of the
world.

It has pictures of the chip masks, technical data, a more recent paper
Holt wrote to put this technology in perspective, and some other data.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 23 15:41:18 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <36080436.7B40@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809240043.UAA22204@smtp.interlog.com>

On 22 Sep 98 at 16:10, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
> over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
> place (Not likely I can move them).. 
> Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
> Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
> also my collection...
> I know by experiance that flooding is the worst part in this
> area, so I will attempt to get all of them at least 2 foot
> off the ground, but if it hits hard nothing I can do..
> --Phil
> 

 WOW !! And I was just thinking of winter coming soon and envying your climate.
I always assumed that people in areas succeptable to high winds would have storm
cellars, but I guess that's only applicable in the midwest where they don't have
that type of flooding. 
 Looks like that equipment will really get a stress test. See which stands up
best. I put my bets on the ones in metal cases.                             
 Good luck and let's hope it bypasses you. Take care.

ciao		larry
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep 23 20:48:01 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: A chapter every computer manual should have
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923091426.14689A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923004247.26690A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <v04011701b22f5468bd4f@[207.220.33.89]>

>> The last chapter of my "Gun Direction Computer M15" manual has a section
>> on destroying the computer if it should fall into enemy hands:
>
>Instructions ("destructions" as Greenback and Stilletto would say) like
>this are common in military tech manuals - at least ones that have even
>the smallest chance of being near the front.
>
>William Donzelli
>william@ans.net

When I worked on a Mainframe in the middle of Washington DC, this was a
part of our training.  I've been in plenty of computer rooms where Sledge
Hammers and Fire Axes were prominently displayed for just this purpose.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From rax at warbaby.com  Wed Sep 23 21:10:34 1998
From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
Message-ID: <v03007803b22f5a4100a5@[205.134.241.24]>

Forwarded sans comment...

http://www.flnet.com/~jlower/aquaria/aquarium.html

--



Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com

The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com


	Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.







From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 20:09:01 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <v03007803b22f5a4100a5@[205.134.241.24]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923180812.9099H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Rax wrote:

> Forwarded sans comment...
> 
> http://www.flnet.com/~jlower/aquaria/aquarium.html

It actually looks fucken cool with the light on.

I hope his fish died from the PCB chemicals.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 23 20:11:15 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Re.: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
Message-ID: <19980924011115.16723.qmail@hotmail.com>





Is that the only speech to be made?


>
>> >>The article only raises more questions.  At the VCF we will answer 
them,
>> >>and a new chapter in the history of the development of the 
microprocessor
>> >>will be written.
>> 
>>     For those of us unable to make it to this event, will there be a
>> transcript of Holt's speech?
>
>Yes.  And a taped version and a video tape will be made.  No definite
>plans exist for releasing the video tape of the talk, but an audio
>cassette will be produced.
>
>Also, I'll be releasing the URL to the web site that Ray Holt put up to
>disseminate information about the F14 Central Air Data Computer on this
>list tomorrow.  You guys will be getting this before the rest of the
>world.
>
>It has pictures of the chip masks, technical data, a more recent paper
>Holt wrote to put this technology in perspective, and some other data.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 20:14:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923180812.9099H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923181407.29825A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Rax wrote:
> 
> > Forwarded sans comment...
> > 
> > http://www.flnet.com/~jlower/aquaria/aquarium.html
> 
> I hope his fish died from the PCB chemicals.

Oops.  Thought that reply would be private.  Sorry if I offended the
virgin ears.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 23 20:16:04 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923180812.9099H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923201456.29847A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> It actually looks fucken cool with the light on.

If you liked that, then you'd love my LavaLamp/HabitTrail Lisa.  The
hamsters think it's groovy.

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 23 20:17:50 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Re.: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <19980924011115.16723.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923201657.29847B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> Is that the only speech to be made?

Yes, Max, the other speakers will really be doing shadow puppets.

> >                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!

-- Doug



From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 23 20:25:05 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <m0zLuiK-000IyTC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zLuiK-000IyTC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980924012505.14679.qmail@brouhaha.com>

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> That's apart from the fact that serious DEC hackers have automatic 
> continuity testers, at least for 36 pin flip-chip cards. 2 cards you plug 
> into the backplane and it'll tell you what's linked to what. Very useful 
> for tracking down backplane faults.

I can see that being simple and common for bussed signals, which are
prevalent on the Unibus, Omnibus, and Qbus.  But the KL10 backplane has
no bussed logic signals.  The backplane has some etched traces, but is
mostly machine-wrapped, and critical timing signals are wired with coax.

If a random wire in the backplane managed to get nicked on the corner of
a wire-wrap pin, I still assert that it will take a *long* time to find it.

Cheers,
Eric




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 23 20:35:43 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Re.: VCF mentioned in today's Wall Street Journal
In-Reply-To: <19980924011115.16723.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923183424.29825B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> Is that the only speech to be made?



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 23 09:21:14 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
References: <m0zLshv-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <360903DA.F234649E@sprintmail.com>

> > Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> >
>   What matters is whether or not the thing works.
> >
> > I must disagree with you on this matter. Cosmetic appearance matters very
> > much to me.A working computer is also just as important.
>
> I'm somewhat halfway between the 2 viewpoints..
>
> But I don't go crazy. I'll not ignore a rare machine because of a
> scratched case. I don't normally repaint cases either. And I certainly
> _use_ the machines, so they get some marks/scratches here. Nothing major,
> but you can probably tell they're not just-out-the-factory.
>
> > I will buy a Crappy looking computer for parts, but for my collection of
> > keepers I want it clean, Pristine, in fact if I find a computer for sale
> > still in the box with manuals, cables and everything in tact, I get
>
> I care about manuals - as a source of information, not as something to
> make the machine 'complete'. Cables are useful, but it's not hard to make
> new ones if they're missing. And I really couldn't care less about the box...
>
> -tony

If I find an Apple 1 computer I will take it anyway it comes (Even if it doesn't
have a case) ;-)

--Phil




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 23 09:51:51 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
References: <199809240043.UAA22204@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <36090B07.2AE95A98@sprintmail.com>

> On 22 Sep 98 at 16:10, Phil Clayton wrote:
> > Well folks looks like I have 2 days to get my collection of
> > over 80 computers to either high ground or in a really secure
> > place (Not likely I can move them)..
> > Weather.com says I am right in the middle of Hurricane George's path.
> > Looks like I will be busy, not only securing my home, but
>
>  Looks like that equipment will really get a stress test. See which stands up
> best. I put my bets on the ones in metal cases.
>  Good luck and let's hope it bypasses you. Take care.
>
> ciao            larry
>

I just spent the entire evening moving and boxing my collection of computers. I'm
watching theweather closely to see if Georges is going to hit hard, if so tomorrow I
will haul the more valuable computers  to my Office and secure them there, its
higher ground and a commercial building. If George comes in as a category 3 or 4
hurricane, I can expect storm surges  in my home of  possibly 2 feet of water, not
even counting wind damage which could blow them including my home away..  If it
looks really bad I am going to put each computer in 3 separate trash bags sealed in
hopes to water proof them.
Grocery stores are bare, lumber company's are bare of wood. No batteries, Water. I
heard that someone even hijacked a truck load of Plywood and stole the entire load
of lumber people use the plywood to board over their windows, Very Strange how
people can get under stress..
People down here are getting real panicked. Business will shut down tomorrow,
schools are closed for the remainder of the week, to prepair them for shelters..
As of  tomorrow if it looks like it will hit, I will go to into survival mode Grab
whats really important like family pictures, our Dog, some food and water, and most
important my 2 children and find a shelter.. The rest is just stuff and can be
replaced.. Estimated to hit on Friday..

--Phil




From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep 23 23:18:04 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923181407.29825A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980923180812.9099H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <v04011700b22f76f56202@[192.168.1.2]>

>> I hope his fish died from the PCB chemicals.
>
>Oops.  Thought that reply would be private.  Sorry if I offended the
>virgin ears.

I thought it was a very appropriate reaction seeing the post.  Not even
taking the pair of Lisa's into consideration, he's got a couple of Mac's I
wouldn't mind having had before he destroyed them!  One would hope that
they were parts machines prior to this, but I doubt it.  Having said that I
have considered doing this with one of my Mac Pluses that IS a parts
machine (and most parts are now gone out of it).

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From spc at armigeron.com  Wed Sep 23 20:17:16 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Here comes the Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <199809240043.UAA22204@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 23, 98 08:41:18 pm
Message-ID: <199809240117.VAA10705@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated:
> 
>  WOW !! And I was just thinking of winter coming soon and envying your climate.
> I always assumed that people in areas succeptable to high winds would have storm
> cellars, but I guess that's only applicable in the midwest where they don't have
> that type of flooding. 

  Well, most of South Florida (I'm on the east coast in Ft. Lauderdale) is
only a few feet above sea level so there really isn't an option when it
comes to basements.  Which sucks, because I happen to miss having a
basement.

  -spc (Looks like it'll hit the west coast of Florida harder than the east
	coast ... )



From jruschme at exit109.com  Wed Sep 23 22:30:55 1998
From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b22f76f56202@[192.168.1.2]> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Sep 23, 98 08:18:04 pm"
Message-ID: <199809240330.XAA05996@crobin.home.org>

> >> I hope his fish died from the PCB chemicals.
> >
> >Oops.  Thought that reply would be private.  Sorry if I offended the
> >virgin ears.
> 
> I thought it was a very appropriate reaction seeing the post.  Not even
> taking the pair of Lisa's into consideration, he's got a couple of Mac's I
> wouldn't mind having had before he destroyed them!  One would hope that
> they were parts machines prior to this, but I doubt it.  Having said that I
> have considered doing this with one of my Mac Pluses that IS a parts
> machine (and most parts are now gone out of it).

If it makes you feel any better, my own Lisa 2 has a Widget and a 512K
memory board which I got from him for the price of postage.

As I recall, he was using "parts" systems for his aquariums, getting the
parts through some association with a computer store. I originally found
out about him from a Usenet posting where he was looking for dead Lisas.
Though his posting never mentioned aquariums, it was clear that he was
not looking for them to restore. Since I, OTOH, was looking for parts for
one, I decided to inquire about getting some castoff pieces.

Nice gentleman, as I recall. 

<<<john>>>


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 23 18:37:07 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer so
In-Reply-To: <1998Sep23.124323.1767.141152@smtp.itgonline.com>
Message-ID: <199809240338.XAA26751@smtp.interlog.com>

On 23 Sep 98 at 12:43, Marty wrote:

>  
>  During my last year in high school in Kensington, Maryland in 1969 an 
>  IBM 1103 was installed with about twenty terminals for student use. I 
>  never used the 1103 although I 'majored' in data processing which 
>  included IBM EAM (Electronic Accounting Machine) plug board wiring and 
>  operation (sorting, collating, keypunching, verifying, gang punching 
>  printing etc. etc. by the way, if anybody has an old plug board 
>  available for sale or trade I would be most grateful). I LOVED the old 
>  punch card gear. It was fun wiring plug boards. 
>  
>  Marty
> 
> 
 I'll second that. I worked as a "Junior IBM Operator " for a large government 
agency here in Toronto in the mid-fifties. I think I still have callouses from 
"hipping" the cards so they wouldn't jam up the sorters. Wiring the plug boards
gave me an appreciation of what you could do with routing signals and 
processes. With IC s a lot of the magic is gone.

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 23 18:37:06 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS modem
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980923093124.00cd8d80@pc>
References: <XFMail.980922191407.kyrrin@jps.net>
Message-ID: <199809240339.XAA26760@smtp.interlog.com>

On 23 Sep 98 at 9:31, John Foust wrote:

> At 07:08 PM 9/22/98 -0700, kyrrin@jps.net wrote:
> >
> >        It tops out at 2400bps, speed-wise, and was designed to handle
> >synchronous transmission only. There's a weak possibility that a
> >commercial datacomm company might still be interested in it, but I've
> >seen people having trouble -giving- those things away at swap meets.
> 
> Apart from the "gee, that really was slow" potential for demonstration,
> recreating the past, is there *any* use for old modems?
> 
> - John
> 
 I've got an almost NIB Commodore Automodem, 300 bps, with terminal
programs for VIC-20 and C64 on cassette tapes. I consider it an integral part
of my collection. Do I "use" it ? Not really. But if functionality was our main 
concern , we wouldn't be collectors, would we ?
 Your question could be posed to most of us , substituting "old computer" for
"old modems" by anyone who's bought into the merchandising game perpetuated
by the computer corporations. 
 "With this NEWEST, SUPERDOOPERPOOPER PLENTYUM with technology
we haven't found a use for yet but we're getting around to it, >>YOU<< can be 
the BIGGEST and FASTEST on your block and get lots of girrls" " PS Our standard
price remains the same $2000 to $6000 just as in the 70"s . Stay curr'nt or be 
burnt "
 Luddite ? No, but I remember cars with 500 HP that you had to have otherwise 
you'd be left standing at the stop sign. (And not get girrls)

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Thu Sep 24 00:38:33 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b22f76f56202@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980923221110.23791A-100000@lafleur>

First I'd like to come forward and admnit that I myself made an aquarium
out of a modern-ish 15" monitor. It's neat, about 5 gallons. The monitor
was junk.

Oh, but how much do you want to hate this guy? Did anyone read through his
plans for making the Macquarium IV? He disassembles a mac with all of it's
parts intact, and even advises that if you're planning to throw away the
CRT to make sure that you break the end off the tube, listening for the
hiss. Then the doozy:

"Note the 'Hyperdrive' sticker on the back of this Mac. This was one of
the first internal hard drives for Mac with a cable that clipped directly
to the processor. Very cool, very expensive..."

Ok, like most collectors, I have a Mac + in the garage somewhere that has
been raided for its PS, etc. But wrecking rare stuff, that's just going
too far. Even if it does look f*ckin' cool.

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I thought it was a very appropriate reaction seeing the post.  Not even
> taking the pair of Lisa's into consideration, he's got a couple of Mac's I
> wouldn't mind having had before he destroyed them!  One would hope that
> they were parts machines prior to this, but I doubt it.  Having said that I
> have considered doing this with one of my Mac Pluses that IS a parts
> machine (and most parts are now gone out of it).




From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 24 01:43:22 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Followup: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <v04011707b22f97e11e92@[192.168.1.2]>

Well between the info Tim posted yesterday (Thanks again Tim), the
'mfm.disks' document that has been on the PDP-11 site, and the 'mv.txt'
document that is part of the MV/VS FAQ, I just finished formatting one of
the drives in the VS2000.  I decided to go that route at least initially
since getting a RL02 hooked up to the one /23 would take a lot of work, and
I've been stuck dialed into work.  Besides it sounds like a drive formatted
on a VS2000 can then be used on a RQDX3 without any problem.

1 down 4 to go.  At least I've got one good drive out of the deal so it was
worth it, even if the rest are bad!  Now I've got a RD52 for that /23. :^)

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Sep 24 01:15:18 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980923201456.29847A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3609E376.52374A8@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > It actually looks fucken cool with the light on.
> 
> If you liked that, then you'd love my LavaLamp/HabitTrail Lisa.  The
> hamsters think it's groovy.

Post construction notes.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep 24 01:43:58 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
In-Reply-To: <3609E376.52374A8@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924013700.1948D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> > If you liked that, then you'd love my LavaLamp/HabitTrail Lisa.  The
> > hamsters think it's groovy.
> 
> Post construction notes.

(It took me several milliseconds to parse that sentence.)

OK, take one Apple Lisa, one Lava Lamp (TM), one Habit Trail (R), place
the habit Trail on top of the Lisa, the Lava Lamp to the left, turn
everything on, and watch the hamsters start grooving.  (No actual Lisas
were harmed in the making of this project, and the hamsters were
portrayed by professional gerbils; do not try this while operating heavy
machinery.) 

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 24 06:31:15 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Followup: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <199809241131.AA11205@world.std.com>

< since getting a RL02 hooked up to the one /23 would take a lot of work, 

That isn't a bad task.  Put the controller in the system if you have the 
right box, plug in the cables, power and your off.

< I've been stuck dialed into work.  Besides it sounds like a drive format
< on a VS2000 can then be used on a RQDX3 without any problem.

Yes, that works well.

< 1 down 4 to go.  At least I've got one good drive out of the deal so it 
< worth it, even if the rest are bad!  Now I've got a RD52 for that /23. :

An 11/23 with RD52 is a good system with any OS 'cept maybe unix.  I run 
RT-11 on it and it's very roomy.

Allison



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 24 07:13:22 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Lisaquarium
Message-ID: <c95b898f.360a3762@aol.com>

hey, i have two macs with hyperdrives, one is complete and working. AFAIK,
that was the only way to get a hard drive on a mac512k besides the floppy
connected slow hard drive that apple built. that ST225 sure made the computer
much heavier! 


In a message dated 98-09-24 01:40:19 EDT, A Finney put forth:

> "Note the 'Hyperdrive' sticker on the back of this Mac. This was one of
>  the first internal hard drives for Mac with a cable that clipped directly
>  to the processor. Very cool, very expensive..."


From cdrmool at interlog.com  Thu Sep 24 11:57:10 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980924125406.2287A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Would someone be kind enough to direct me to a good FAQ or URL for
diagnosing/repairing monitors?  There has been some excellent information
passed around on this list since I've subscribed but I need something a
bit more basic.  For example, descriptions of different types of problems
(flickering, only 2 colours) and the possible causes and interventions.  I
realize that its not quite as simple as I'd like it to be but I have to
start somewhere.  I keep finding SVGA monitors that need some work and
would like to get them up and running.  


TIA
Colan






From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 24 12:04:38 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980924125406.2287A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <360A7BA5.D1121AE3@bigfoot.com>

cdrmool@interlog.com wrote:

> Would someone be kind enough to direct me to a good FAQ or URL for
> diagnosing/repairing monitors?  There has been some excellent information
> passed around on this list since I've subscribed but I need something a
> bit more basic.  For example, descriptions of different types of problems
> (flickering, only 2 colours) and the possible causes and interventions.  I
> realize that its not quite as simple as I'd like it to be but I have to
> start somewhere.  I keep finding SVGA monitors that need some work and
> would like to get them up and running.

Sounds a lot like a bad flyback transformer, getting ready to die. Anyway,
try   http://www.repairfaq.org/~filipg/HTML/REPAIR/F_IBMmon.html for the info
you need and unless you have a high voltage probe to test the voltage going to
the cap on top of the picture tube you'll have to guess-timate as to whether a
flyback is at fault. MCM Electronins is a good end user source for many of the
parts used in monitors as well.



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Thu Sep 24 12:13:04 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809241711.MAA11520@falcon.inetnebr.com>

>Would someone be kind enough to direct me to a good FAQ or URL for
>diagnosing/repairing monitors?  There has been some excellent information

Try www.repairfaq.com - it contains the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup
FAQ.  (I tried it just now, and can't get there, but I think this is the
right address.)


                                        Bill Richman
                                        incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                                        (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                                         microcomputer simulator!)



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Thu Sep 24 12:15:11 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809241713.MAA11826@falcon.inetnebr.com>

>Would someone be kind enough to direct me to a good FAQ or URL for
>diagnosing/repairing monitors?  There has been some excellent information

Oops - try www.repairfaq.org/~filipg.

                                        Bill Richman
                                        incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                                        (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                                         microcomputer simulator!)



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 24 13:11:56 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: new DEC additions
Message-ID: <17b4a8b5.360a8b6c@aol.com>

drove out to the country the other day and picked up this load of dec stuff.
some of you dec hotshots can tell me if it was worth the trip.  lol

i already have a microvax II, but in a tower unit form factor, almost like a
pc. (ba123 i think) the 3 i got are shaped different. two of them are big,
probably over 200lbs each easy. the first one has a sticker on it showing
model 63006. its a big unit, with a hood that opens up top and a big tape
drive <?> that slides forward. the machine says TS05 on the front. one model
came with two hard drives. the other unit 'named pugsly' is the same, except
it has a small tape drive and the backplane has cables going everywhere and
the side panels are off. thankfully they have wheels. the 3rd uvax is a  much
smaller unit but wider than the one i have here in the computer room. it has a
dual vertical floppy drive and two hard drives. 
i also got two vt220 terminals
about 40 orange binders about vax/vms. programmer's guide, reference, and who
know what else! 
a letterwriter 100
external drive RD54
a tape drive (tk50?)
a rat's nest of cables to hook everything up. 
some blank dec 5.25 disks
about 20 compactapes. half are backups. last bu was nov94. 
also got these system tapes:
microvms 4.6 full bin
vax fortran 4.5 bin
decnet mvms v4 net bnd/n
tsv05 driver bin
microvms v4.7 bin
vhs lic key bin
microvms 4.6 bin mand update
mvII diag cust
rel:1.2.1 install microvax II  (handwritten)


heh, if anyone can explain all this, that would be most welcome. it was hard
work having to unload those off a truck by myself. i might keep the smaller of
the 3 i got, but the two big monstors, i'm unsure of. the people i got these
from also want to give me a CDC machine that's even bigger...

david


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 24 14:01:54 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:51 2005
Subject: Kids these days
Message-ID: <199809241901.MAA03991@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Yes!  Something I can help with.  To get to the BAL-500 menu, which is 
>onboard, you just put it in a slot and do PR#X where X is the slot number 
>it's in.  It'll bring up a menu of things you can do with it.
>
>PS:  At least I think I have a BAL-500.  Try it and see.

Thanks, Anthony.  PR#X does it.  Now I just need to figure out how to 
actually program it.  :-)

Thanks,
Tom

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 24 12:20:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <360903DA.F234649E@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 23, 98 10:21:14 am
Message-ID: <m0zMF4Q-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 24 12:26:56 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
In-Reply-To: <19980924012505.14679.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 24, 98 01:25:05 am
Message-ID: <m0zMFAS-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 24 13:06:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <360A7BA5.D1121AE3@bigfoot.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Sep 24, 98 12:04:38 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMFmp-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From manney at lrbcg.com  Thu Sep 24 15:58:37 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Goo is gone!
Message-ID: <01bde7fe$19ccbf00$2528a2ce@manney>

Used Goo Gone; one swipe is all it took -- that stuff's magic!
manney@lrbcg.com


>An Epson gas eaten several mailing labels over the years (I think at least
>_some_ of the labels must be 10 years old!).
>
>What's good stuff to remove the gunk without melting the plastic?




From djenner at halcyon.com  Thu Sep 24 16:57:36 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <m0zMFmp-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <360AC050.906819A3@halcyon.com>

How about slowly varying focus?  I have a SuperVGA monitor that
won't keep its focus.  If I focus it when I first turn it on, it
slowly goes out of focus as it warms up.  If I try to keep it in
focus as it warms up, I can keep it in focus, but some of the other
adjustments peak out (like horizontal and vertical size).  Is this
a power supply problem?

Dave

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > cdrmool@interlog.com wrote:
> >
> > > Would someone be kind enough to direct me to a good FAQ or URL for
> > > diagnosing/repairing monitors?  There has been some excellent information
> > > passed around on this list since I've subscribed but I need something a
> > > bit more basic.  For example, descriptions of different types of problems
> > > (flickering, only 2 colours) and the possible causes and interventions.  I
> > > realize that its not quite as simple as I'd like it to be but I have to
> > > start somewhere.  I keep finding SVGA monitors that need some work and
> > > would like to get them up and running.
> >
> > Sounds a lot like a bad flyback transformer, getting ready to die. Anyway,
> 
> Flickering could be due to the flyback, could be due to a lot of other
> things. A missing colour is certainly not the flyback, though.
> 
> Here are some simple-ish faults and possible causes. There are plenty of
> other causes for these faults, but this is what I'd check first.
> 
> Missing colour (only 2 of the 3 guns working)
> ----
> Bad cable or PC plug (bent pin)
> Dry joints on the CRT base panel (Where the video amplifier normally is)
> Defective components (transistors, LM1203 chip, etc) in the video amplifier
> CRT (unlikely)
> 
> Horizontal line (only)
> ----
> Vertical output chip
> Capacitors near the vertical output chip open/shorted
> No power to vertical output chip (maybe fusible resistor O/C)
> 
> Vertical line (only)
> ---
> If EHT comes from the horizontal output, then O/C yoke, connector, or
> coupling components.
> If separate EHT generator (fairly common in monitors with multiple scan
> rates, including even EGA), then horizontal output transistor, drive to it.
> 
> Blank screen, power on light normal
> ---
> Look for glow from CRT heater. If missing, check supply (maybe from the
> flyback, maybe from the main PSU) and heater continuity
> Check EHT with a special EHT meter. Expect about 25kV on a colour
> monitor, about 12kV - 15kV on a mono one. If missing, check flyback,
> horizontal output transistor, etc
> Check other CRT voltages. If any are missing, trace back to the source
> (probably from the flyback).
> It's possible, although rare, for a video amplifier fault to bias the CRT
> beyond cut-off. Sometimes turning up the 'screen' control will get a
> raster in this case.
> 
> Blank screen, power light flashing about once a second
> ---
> The main PSU is tripping (assuming this isn't some infernal power-save
> mode). Most likely cause is the horizontal output transistor shorted,
> probably due to a shorted flyback.
> 
> Main fuse blows violently
> -----
> Short on the primary side of the PSU :
> Chopper transistor, bridge rectifier diodes, degaussing posistor, chopper
> control module, etc. Sort this out like an SMPSU
> 
> Flickering, especially when case is tapped
> ----
> Dry joints (could be just about anywhere). Often a complete resolder is
> the quickest way to solve this.
> 
> > try   http://www.repairfaq.org/~filipg/HTML/REPAIR/F_IBMmon.html for the info
> 
> www.repairfaq.org is down at the moment (I believe the amount of data
> pulled from that site exceeded the limits set by the ISP). There are
> mirrors, but I forget where. A quick search of sci.electronics.repair
> will find them, though.
> 
> FInd that site and read the safety warnings before you pull the case on a
> monitor. There are dangers in them - high voltages (not just the EHT to
> the CRT, but also mains), the high-vacuum CRT that could implode
> (although it's unlikely), etc.
> 
> > you need and unless you have a high voltage probe to test the voltage going to
> > the cap on top of the picture tube you'll have to guess-timate as to whether a
> > flyback is at fault. MCM Electronins is a good end user source for many of the
> 
> Normally, when a flyback fails, it develops shorted turns and kills the
> horizontal output transistor as well. You don't need an EHT probe to find
> that. A ringing tester will find shorted turns, but you need a 'scope.
> 
> > parts used in monitors as well.
> >
> >
> 
> -tony


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 24 17:04:58 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: New toys
Message-ID: <m0zMJVW-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 24 17:15:12 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <360AC050.906819A3@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Sep 24, 98 02:57:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMJfP-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 24 18:32:15 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <m0zMFmp-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <360AD67E.3A2F6DC@bigfoot.com>

Tony Duell wrote:

> > Sounds a lot like a bad flyback transformer, getting ready to die. Anyway,
>
> Flickering could be due to the flyback, could be due to a lot of other
> things. A missing colour is certainly not the flyback, though.

I know, I was a little quick on the reply. I have seen  a missing color problem cure
itself on a monitor or two with  the flyback change. It depends on the flyback
construction too, how much is consolidated into the HV system. The flaky focus
sounds a little like heat affecting the diodes, like it's ready to pop a flyback as
well. Probably 6 of 10 monitors I work on are flyback related, 2 are the power
supply and the rest are varied between bad controls, horiz or vert sections, or
cheap digital touch controls.

Power transistors tend to be a pain in the tush too.



From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 24 18:34:50 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <m0zMFmp-000IyQC@p850ug1> <360AC050.906819A3@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <360AD719.627917C3@bigfoot.com>

Speaking of monitor repair, anyone have a good source for IBM monitor parts other than
direct from Ft. Knox, er, IBM ($$$)??? I have a G40 that works great except the nasty
rubber type controls strip with the mylar circuit behind it is dead and won't allow
any adjustments at all.



From ecloud at goodnet.com  Thu Sep 24 19:49:07 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <360AD67E.3A2F6DC@bigfoot.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Sep 24, 98 06:32:15 pm
Message-ID: <199809250049.RAA19722@goodnet.com>

> Tony Duell wrote:
> well. Probably 6 of 10 monitors I work on are flyback related, 2 are the power
> supply and the rest are varied between bad controls, horiz or vert sections, or
> cheap digital touch controls.

Have you fixed any of the digital problems?  I have one that can be adjusted
digitally, and looks gorgeous, but as soon as you switch video modes
and it has to re-sync it forgets all its settings (and the defaults are
really bad - extreme trapezoid etc.)  

-- 
  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
 (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
 __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* ham radio * Gravis Ultrasound * virtual reality * quantize the universe * 


From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 24 20:04:40 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <199809250049.RAA19722@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <360AEC27.7699345F@bigfoot.com>

Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> > Tony Duell wrote:
> > well. Probably 6 of 10 monitors I work on are flyback related, 2 are the power
> > supply and the rest are varied between bad controls, horiz or vert sections, or
> > cheap digital touch controls.
>
> Have you fixed any of the digital problems?  I have one that can be adjusted
> digitally, and looks gorgeous, but as soon as you switch video modes
> and it has to re-sync it forgets all its settings (and the defaults are
> really bad - extreme trapezoid etc.)

The source of the problem is different on each one. The last one I had that did a
similar thing was an NEC, and it needed the processor chip replaced. Found out it was
cheaper (in the long run) to replace the one board and all of it's components. as a
single part. I would have junked the unit but the owner just had to get the thing
replaced. I guess, since a new one in 17" was around $300 and the board was $95.



From djenner at halcyon.com  Thu Sep 24 20:43:10 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
References: <m0zMJfP-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <360AF52E.CE8F7106@halcyon.com>

It's a CTX 1565GM, about 3-4 years old.  Other than this focus drift
problem, it's a good monitor.  I hate to trash it, but it's getting
pretty cheap to replace this size/quality.  I'd really like to keep
it around to use as a VGA with older systems (>=10 years, of course,
so it semi-qualifies as "classic"!).

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > How about slowly varying focus?  I have a SuperVGA monitor that
> > won't keep its focus.  If I focus it when I first turn it on, it
> > slowly goes out of focus as it warms up.  If I try to keep it in
> > focus as it warms up, I can keep it in focus, but some of the other
> > adjustments peak out (like horizontal and vertical size).  Is this
> > a power supply problem?
> 
> Interesting... It sounds like a high-voltage problem to me. I had a VGA
> monitor where the focus and brightness went all over the place as it
> warmed up. I traced it in the end to the flyback, which cost rather a lot
> to replace :-(.
> 
> Anyway, in most monitors the focus supply (5kV or thereabouts) comes from
> the flyback. As does the EHT to the CRT. And the EHT voltage does affect
> the size of the picture (higher EHT -> `stiffer' beam -> smaller picture
> for a given deflection field).
> 
> What I'd do is find the supply to the horizontal output stage. This is
> probably around 150V. Having a service manual (what is the monitor, just
> in case I have the schematics?) helps. If that drifts as the monitor
> warms up, then debug the power supply. If it's steady, suspect a problem
> with the divider network in the flyback.
> 
> -tony


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 24 20:48:36 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <m0zMF4Q-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zMF4Q-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980925014836.24142.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> Especially as the Apple 1 came as a bare board, didn't it. Case optional.

IIRC, the Apple 1 didn't even have an optional case.  You were on your own
with regard to packaging.


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep 24 17:24:35 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: More monitor Repair
Message-ID: <199809250225.WAA14541@smtp.interlog.com>

While we're on monitor repair:
 I picked up an IBM PS/1 SVGA which when turned on flashes a normal
screen for less than a second, which collapses and then displays a slowly 
degrading squiggly vertical line which gradually shortens and blanks.
 Likely some classic symptom . Any ideas ? 
 
ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 24 21:21:07 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809250228.WAA25859@gate.usaor.net>

Speaking of monitor repairs, does anyone know how to get rid of that
annoying whistling that some of the older monitors have?  I have an old
Magnavox that is a GREAT monitor (CGA/Herc/Composite, color/green w/
built-in sound), but it whistles like a tea kettle (O.K., that's a bit
exaggerated, but it's pretty bad).  I've been told to put glue on the
flyback, but where?

Also, speaking about that monitor, there's two sockets on the back:

TTL RGB
Lin RGB

I have the TTL RGB cable, which will work with CGA (standard 9-pin).  I
don't have the Lin RGB cable, and the connector for it is a 6 pin DIN jack
(the one for the TTL RGB is also an DIN connector - 8-pin).  What is the
Lin RGB for, and what is the pinout for it?  I got the monitor used for two
bucks, so I don't have a manual.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 24 21:35:22 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809250235.AA23675@world.std.com>

Here's one that has me going...

Gateway2000 crystal scan (1572 FS):

Problem: display from cold start is 75% of normal size, warms up to 
normal after about 10 minutes.  Color and aspect ratio excellent as is 
focus even in shrunken form.  Chill spray on components cannot cause 
the display to shrink.  

Any clues on this one?  I have no prints...

As tubes go this one is fairly nice.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 24 21:35:37 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: new DEC additions
Message-ID: <199809250235.AA23865@world.std.com>


< i already have a microvax II, but in a tower unit form factor, almost li
< pc. (ba123 i think) the 3 i got are shaped different. two of them are bi
< probably over 200lbs each easy. the first one has a sticker on it showin
< model 63006. its a big unit, with a hood that opens up top and a big tap

Could be a MVII in one of many possible boxes.  Sounds like you hiot the 
mother load.


< about 40 orange binders about vax/vms. programmer's guide, reference, an
< know what else! 

Orange is V4.x.. old but very useful.


< a letterwriter 100

A good wide platten printer that will do six part forms.

< external drive RD54
< a tape drive (tk50?)

Always handy.

< microvms 4.6 full bin

Old but usable.

< vax fortran 4.5 bin
< decnet mvms v4 net bnd/n
< tsv05 driver bin
< microvms v4.7 bin

Better.

< vhs lic key bin

BIG WIN if not expired, if not DECUS.

< microvms 4.6 bin mand update
< mvII diag cust
< rel:1.2.1 install microvax II  (handwritten)
< 
< 
< heh, if anyone can explain all this, that would be most welcome. it was 

Sounds like you have the docs needed to answer you questions.  The orange 
wall is chock full of information even if the version is old it's more 
valuable than the VAX itself!

Allison



From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 24 21:46:54 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809250254.WAA00868@gate.usaor.net>

I have the same monitor.  Don't have the same problem, though.  It may be
just the picture tube warming up, which would explain why the chill spray
doesn't do anything.  Although 10 minutes seems like an awfully long time
for tube warm-up.  Mine gets to full size, and warmed up in about 15
seconds.  It's from 1992 (or93).  

I have noticed, however, that since I got it, the picture is slowly
shrinking.  When new, I could adjust both horizontal and vertical, when
maxed out, would be past the edges of the screen.  Now, when I max out the
horiz. control, I can only get it to about 1/2 - 3/4" from each side of the
screen.  The vertical can still go off the screen.  Other than that, there
are no problems (no pincushion, distortion etc).  The monitor is very low
hours.  It was used probably about 3-4 hours a week, if that, until about 4
months ago.  Now it's used about 3-4 hours a day.  The problem started,
however, when being used 3-4 hrs. a week.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Allison J Parent <allisonp@world.std.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Monitor repair
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:35 PM
> 
> Here's one that has me going...
> 
> Gateway2000 crystal scan (1572 FS):
> 
> Problem: display from cold start is 75% of normal size, warms up to 
> normal after about 10 minutes.  Color and aspect ratio excellent as is 
> focus even in shrunken form.  Chill spray on components cannot cause 
> the display to shrink.  
> 
> Any clues on this one?  I have no prints...
> 
> As tubes go this one is fairly nice.
> 
> Allison
> 


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 24 22:17:21 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Caldera OpenLinux User)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
Message-ID: <199809250317.VAA18430@calico.litterbox.com>

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From red at bears.org  Thu Sep 24 22:22:46 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
In-Reply-To: <199809250317.VAA18430@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809242322140.480-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Caldera OpenLinux User wrote:

> has been around since the 60s, why do they feel they need to or should move
> things around at this late date?

Two words, "product differentiation".

ok
r.



From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep 24 22:33:24 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
In-Reply-To: <199809250317.VAA18430@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924223206.18520I-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Caldera OpenLinux User wrote:

> I just finished installing caldera linux on my unix machine in the hopes of 
> plugging the holes the spammers were using to forward mail through my site.  

	http://maps.vix.com/tsi/

-- Doug



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 24 22:49:54 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Caldera OpenLinux User)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924223206.18520I-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 24, 98 10:33:24 pm
Message-ID: <199809250349.VAA18725@calico.litterbox.com>

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From danjo at xnet.com  Thu Sep 24 22:50:38 1998
From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: (fwd) Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
In-Reply-To: <199809250329.WAA24612@xnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980924224906.26486A-100000@typhoon>



Now HERE is a Classic!

> -- forwarded message --
> Subject: Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:46:25 GMT
> 
> Over in sci.space.history they are offering an actual Shuttle
> Columbia Flight CPU that ACTUALLY FLEW. Price is something like 
> $1800. I came over here & didn't see the post here so thought
> I would tell y'all.
> 
> The thread is "ex-Mission Control surplus electronics for sale".
> -- end of forwarded message --




From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 24 22:56:38 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Caldera OpenLinux User)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
In-Reply-To: <199809250349.VAA18725@calico.litterbox.com> from "Caldera OpenLinux User" at Sep 24, 98 09:49:54 pm
Message-ID: <199809250356.VAA18779@calico.litterbox.com>

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From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep 24 23:11:40 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068
Message-ID: <360B17FC.2162@bright.net>

Can someone tell me what voltage and current are used for the power
supply on the Timex Sinclair 2068? Also what is the tip polarity?

--Alan

-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 24 23:07:11 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: The latest: Apple IIc+LCD and a Tomy Tutor
In-Reply-To: <199809250356.VAA18779@calico.litterbox.com>
References: <199809250349.VAA18725@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980924210711.00773408@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>


Just picked up two more interesting machines:

An Apple IIc with a C-VUE display panel from SWI International Systems and
an external battery pack(!). Somebody was using this as a "laptop". With
the battery, it's HEAVY. I haven't tested this yet.

And, a Tomy Tutor "16-bit graphic computer" -- a weird bastard crossbreed
of a TI99/4A, IBM PCjr, and an MSX computer. 16k of RAM, 16 colors,
built-in basic and graphic/sprite editor. I've never seen one of these
before, ever, but it seems to work just fine. Cameron Kaiser (of
comp.binaries.cbm moderation fame) has some information about this computer
at http://www.crosslink.ptloma.edu/~spectre/tomy/.

This past week has been one of the most productive in my thrift-scavenging
history. :)

	-jrs
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Thu Sep 24 23:04:08 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
In-Reply-To: <199809250317.VAA18430@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980924210408.036da830@agora.rdrop.com>

At 09:17 PM 9/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi.  This is only slightly off topic, for what are old computers without old
>operating systems? :)
>
>I just finished installing caldera linux on my unix machine in the hopes of 
>plugging the holes the spammers were using to forward mail through my site.  
>What IS it with these newer distributions that they have to MOVE everything,
>change how ps works, and four million annoying little things?  Look, Unix
>has been around since the 60s, why do they feel they need to or should move
>things around at this late date?
>-- 

Well... one consideration might be that Linux is not Unix...  It was
designed to look similar to the user, but that is pretty much where the
similarity ends...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 25 01:18:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100/102 Bonanza
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924210408.036da830@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980925011340.32705B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

OK, slate fans, now's your chance to own a classic, and still quite
usable, M100 or M102: 
	http://www.spantek.on.ca/search.htm
(Look for Tandy)

I haven't dealt with this particular vendor, but CAN$65 for an M100 is a
pretty good deal (I think that translates to about US$40).

-- Doug



From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 25 01:24:01 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: um... somewhat on topic...
References: <3.0.3.32.19980924210408.036da830@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <360B3701.EC65CF93@cnct.com>

James Willing wrote:
> 
> At 09:17 PM 9/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Hi.  This is only slightly off topic, for what are old computers without old
> >operating systems? :)
> >
> >I just finished installing caldera linux on my unix machine in the hopes of
> >plugging the holes the spammers were using to forward mail through my site.
> >What IS it with these newer distributions that they have to MOVE everything,
> >change how ps works, and four million annoying little things?  Look, Unix
> >has been around since the 60s, why do they feel they need to or should move
> >things around at this late date?
> >--
> 
> Well... one consideration might be that Linux is not Unix...  It was
> designed to look similar to the user, but that is pretty much where the
> similarity ends...

Yah.  Whining about options and output from the 'ps' command is
especially futile -- that's probably the most variable program on
the planet.  Switching between AT&T, BSD and AIX alone requires a
steno pad of notes on the program.  Hell, the change from Tandy
Xenix 1.x to Tandy Xenix 3.x on the 6000 caused serious changes to
the 'ps' command -- about the only command switch that seems to be
constant is '-l'.

If you want fun, install the CDE and try to get everything working
that used to be fine under fvwm or even Motif.  Then try to merge
the good parts from Redhat and Caldera (both based on the RPM
installation system).  Me, I find it fun -- since I always do it on
the designated guinea pig system (roughly equivalent to the main
working system, since they switch places once things are stable).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 25 01:25:47 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: (fwd) Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980924224906.26486A-100000@typhoon>
Message-ID: <360B376B.24C6A1@cnct.com>

Brett wrote:
> 
> Now HERE is a Classic!
> 
> > -- forwarded message --
> > Subject: Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:46:25 GMT
> >
> > Over in sci.space.history they are offering an actual Shuttle
> > Columbia Flight CPU that ACTUALLY FLEW. Price is something like
> > $1800. I came over here & didn't see the post here so thought
> > I would tell y'all.
> >
> > The thread is "ex-Mission Control surplus electronics for sale".
> > -- end of forwarded message --

Anybody know what happened to that TRS-80 Model 100 that Canadian
took up in a shuttle back in '85?
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 25 01:30:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: (fwd) Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
In-Reply-To: <360B376B.24C6A1@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980925012937.32705C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> Anybody know what happened to that TRS-80 Model 100 that Canadian
> took up in a shuttle back in '85?

It probably got crushed by one of the magnesium-cased GRiD portables that
have been onboard since 1982 or so :-)

-- Doug



From ddameron at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 25 01:41:26 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Don Tarbell's computer
Message-ID: <199809250641.XAA10502@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi Sam and all,
At 11:34 AM 9/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>If you're not aware of this, Don Tarbell, of the famous Tarbell Cassette
>standard, died earlier this year.  Someone posted about this on the list
>around the time he passed on.
>
I called Don about 18 months ago asking if he could give me some information
on his earlier homebrew computers. I know he started in the mid 1960's with
a RTL (resistor transistor logic) system. He didn't know where to locate any
at that time. I also said I'd be interested in other earlier computer
literature.
I knew a little about his cassette interface from BYTE ads. He and his wife
Brenda took my mumber.

Well this week she called, She had taken care of most things and was moving
this Sat. She had a small box of literature that I could pick up if I wanted
it. I said Sure!

The box has several of the Micro 8 newsletters, some IMSAI stuff, some 1977
Bytes, source code listings for Processor Tech Basic-5 and Software package
No. 1, +...
I was happy to have found it. Her last trash pickup would have been the next
day.

Why I'm writing is thrown out at the street was his (their) last homebrew
computer, "PUTER". Brenda said I was welcome to it. She had spent many hours
soldering the boards, they had dropped all work on it when the Altair came out.

I would like to get it to do at least something. The problem which makes it
(maybe too) difficult is that ALL documentation is lost. Many wires are broken.

I have 3 units:
1. the rack "mainframe" which include 16 address lights, 8 data switches, 4
"file address" switches + about 10 others. The main power supply is 5V, 15 Amp.
The backplane has space for 16 cards. There are 8.

2. A spare? cardcage with 7 misc I/O cards? The edge connectors are wired
partially, but it looks like a card storage unit.

3. A "GA" logo core memory card, 15 x17 inches (38x43cm). Not sure if it was
connected. Brenda said Don collected all types of computer surplus for his
projects.

I left behind a hard disk unit in a rack in very poor condition. The single
platter had been exposed for over 10 years...

Most of the cards are Douglas Electronics 11DE5.
(They are in San Leandro in N. Ca. and still sell these. You can see their
line at www.douglas.com. they also sell DEC, S-100 and other form cards at
attractive prices, in my opinion, if anyone needs them.)

The cards 11DE5 hold up to 36 16 pin dips. They are soldered together with
vari-colored telephone wire. (AWG 24, about 0.5mm). Am example of what I
have is a serial card (from the DB-25S) which contains 20 IC's.

3-7401
2-7402
2-7404
1-7421
1-7427
1-7430
1-7442
2-7474
2-7496 5 bit shift reg.
1-74163
1-74180 parity gen.
2-9602 (T. and R clocks)
1-8273 10 bit shift register.
This was in the "spare" cardcage.

Have not traced this board circuit or any other yet! May start with a simple
one with only 8 IC's. Have not recognized any computer function yet, such as
a ALU, address latch, etc. Should I start by finding the data and address
busses on the backplanes? Or does this sound like an impossibly long task???

Brenda said this system was used to start development on a cassette system
before S-100 came along. It is really amazing that he interfaced a hard disk
to it and wrote an operating system for it. She said one output devicer was
an X-Y recorder. If anyone has any of the Amateur Computer Society issues
that have any descriptions, I would be very interested.
-Dave




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 25 01:53:11 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Don Tarbell's computer
In-Reply-To: <199809250641.XAA10502@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980924235212.29839I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, dave dameron wrote:

> Brenda said this system was used to start development on a cassette system
> before S-100 came along. It is really amazing that he interfaced a hard disk
> to it and wrote an operating system for it. She said one output devicer was
> an X-Y recorder. If anyone has any of the Amateur Computer Society issues
> that have any descriptions, I would be very interested.

Don't have time to read this complete message but this is an INCREDIBLE
find!!  I'll be extremely interested in finding out more about it.
Congrats!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From emu at ecubics.com  Fri Sep 25 07:41:18 1998
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: new DEC additions
Message-ID: <19980925122559.AAA26493@emusp6>

Hi Dave,

----------
> From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: new DEC additions
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 12:11 PM
> 
> drove out to the country the other day and picked up this load of dec
stuff.
> some of you dec hotshots can tell me if it was worth the trip.  lol
 
> about 40 orange binders about vax/vms. programmer's guide, reference, and
who
> know what else!

Keep them. I find always more in this books, that i'm looking for ;-))
 
> external drive RD54

functional ?

> mvII diag cust

DON'T ERASE THIS ONE !

> heh, if anyone can explain all this, that would be most welcome. it was
hard
> work having to unload those off a truck by myself. i might keep the
smaller of
> the 3 i got, 

Tell us, what boards are in the 3 boxes ...


cheers,
emanuel


From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Sep 25 08:26:49 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068
In-Reply-To: <360B17FC.2162@bright.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980925092649.00694dfc@mail.wincom.net>

At 12:11 AM 9/25/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Can someone tell me what voltage and current are used for the power
>supply on the Timex Sinclair 2068? Also what is the tip polarity?
>
>--Alan
>
>-- 
>Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
>Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
>Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
>BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
>http://www.bright.net/~oajones
>
>
	The Timex Sinclair 2068 in our collection came with a DVE power supply, 15
V at 1 Amp DC, and with the outside sleeve of the plug positive and the
inside negative.

									Regards

									Charlie Fox



From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep 25 08:59:26 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068
References: <3.0.2.32.19980925092649.00694dfc@mail.wincom.net>
Message-ID: <360BA1BE.2EAF@bright.net>

Charles E. Fox wrote:
>         The Timex Sinclair 2068 in our collection came with a DVE power supply, 15
> V at 1 Amp DC, and with the outside sleeve of the plug positive and the
> inside negative.
> 
>                                                                         Regards
> 
>                                                                         Charlie Fox

Hi Charlie,
What does "DVE" stand for?

-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Fri Sep 25 09:00:17 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: new DEC additions
Message-ID: <980925100017.33d@trailing-edge.com>

>> mvII diag cust
>DON'T ERASE THIS ONE !

Why not?  The customer diagnostics are completely worthless.  If one
tries to use them to format a RD-series disk on a RQDX3, the best
possible outcome is that an already formatted disk will remain formatted.
A more likely outcome is that an already formatted disk will get zorched!

Tim.


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Fri Sep 25 10:04:50 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: new DEC additions
Message-ID: <630d7a21.360bb112@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-25 08:27:58 EDT, you write:

> Tell us, what boards are in the 3 boxes ...


i dont know dec, but if you can explain how to access the boards and ID them,
i can tell you what they are. 

david


From cfandt at servtech.com  Fri Sep 25 10:23:05 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <199809231752.NAA28219@user2.infinet.com>
References: <199809231741.RAA02901@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Version.32.19980925105853.01063510@199.1.22.12>

At 13:52 23-09-98 -0400, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> 
>> At 23:08 22-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> >No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.
>> 
>> Oh no you won't ;)  I'll get a set of those new Michelin Zero Pressure
>> tires (ones which the TV ad shows a 3/4" hole being drilled in the sidewall
>> and the car driving away; 55 MPH for 50 miles... [howzat work anyway?])
>
>Special sidewalls that are stiff enough to resist being folded over and
>cut by the rim or rubbed thin by the consant compression/expansion of
>rolling under the weight of the car and back out  It's difficult to 
>explain without diagrams.  

I figured it was some sort of stiff sidewall. Must be a real b**ch to
install and remove from the rims. I know what it's like to deal with
mounting 6-ply sidewall tires used on small  commercial vehicles not having
split rims. 

>The pressure monitoring system, BTW, is
>required so that you, the driver, know that you have a flat and not to
>drive on it too fast or too far.

Pressure monitor? How does the driver get that feedback? Obviously there
would need to be information sent to the driver as to pressure failure. 

>
>> >I know little about 1103s, but they were indeed built for number crunching
>> >for people that could not afford a big S/360. The 1103 is related to the
>> >1800, used for process control (leading to the S/7).
>> 
>> You must have been tired at 23:08 when you wrote this :)  It's an IBM
1130. 
>
>Wasn't there an 1103, too?  I remember being confused while talking
>computers with someone in college - he was thinking of an IBM 1103,
>while I was thinking of a DEC LSI 11/03.  Maybe _he_ was confused.

I do not know for sure if there was an IBM 1103 (anybody?) but for sure
there was an 1130 (I'm not _that_ old ;). Yeah, imagine the confusion when
throwing around 1103, 11/03 and 1130 numbers during a discussion or
whatever especially with non-technical persons.

>
>I never got to program it, but the EE department at OSU had an 1130 with
>a couple of RK05-style disks in a forgotten lab when I was a college
>freshman.  ISTR it was short, but wide, being built into a desk.

ISTR the same. There was a panel across the back of the desk-like cabinet
with switches/lights and a Selectric typewriter set in the center as the
local system programming I/O. I vaguely recall one day the IBM CE was in to
do maintenance/repairs and the door at the right side of the 'desk' was
open to show off the 32k core memory area.

--Chris
-- --


Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Fri Sep 25 11:46:45 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: (fwd) Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
In-Reply-To: <360B376B.24C6A1@cnct.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980924224906.26486A-100000@typhoon>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980925114645.44df079a@intellistar.net>

At 02:25 AM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Brett wrote:
>> 
>> Now HERE is a Classic!
>> 
>> > -- forwarded message --
>> > Subject: Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
>> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:46:25 GMT
>> >
>> > Over in sci.space.history they are offering an actual Shuttle
>> > Columbia Flight CPU that ACTUALLY FLEW. Price is something like
>> > $1800. I came over here & didn't see the post here so thought
>> > I would tell y'all.
>> >
>> > The thread is "ex-Mission Control surplus electronics for sale".
>> > -- end of forwarded message --
>
>Anybody know what happened to that TRS-80 Model 100 that Canadian
>took up in a shuttle back in '85?

  No, but I have an HP 41 CX that flew on one of the shuttle missions.  I
bought it at a NASA auction at KSC.

  FWIW  I have a friend that collects space stuff.  He has lots of neat
stuff that's flown.  His latest find was a large number of shuttle floor
panels and a shuttle light fixture.

   Joe



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Fri Sep 25 11:12:25 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: (fwd) Actual Shuttle Columbia Flight CPU and IOP for sale.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980925114645.44df079a@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980925090639.15044A-100000@lafleur>



On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Joe wrote:

>   FWIW  I have a friend that collects space stuff.  He has lots of neat
> stuff that's flown.  His latest find was a large number of shuttle floor
> panels and a shuttle light fixture.

My grandfather worked on the Columbia. I recently inherited a huge box
full of stuff, including original promo booklets, some of the infamous
tiles, and a few of the electronic bits that he developed (2nds, of
course) for it. The promo stuff is neat; some of it shows the computers
that were being used in the research and production labs. When I get a
chance, I'll scan them and post them somewhere.



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 11:28:17 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
Message-ID: <199809251628.AA17379@world.std.com>

< I have the same monitor.  Don't have the same problem, though.  It may b
< just the picture tube warming up, which would explain why the chill spra
< doesn't do anything.  Although 10 minutes seems like an awfully long tim
< for tube warm-up.  Mine gets to full size, and warmed up in about 15
< seconds.  It's from 1992 (or93).  

This is fromn a friend and was retrired because this wasn't normal 
operation.  The tube should be warm in a minute or so but the diplay 
growth takes a good 10-15minuts to reach normal.  It is otherwise stable. 

It's in very good shape but is was used every day for over 4 hours a 
sitting.

My first thought was power supply but any point I've measured is stable
on warm up.

Allison




From cfandt at servtech.com  Fri Sep 25 11:44:40 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
In-Reply-To: <980923135326.29c@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <199809251644.QAA09873@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 13:53 23-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Thank you from me too, Tim!!!!
>
>You're welcome!
>
>>   I'm going to later this fall/winter try to
>>start-up my MicroPDP-11/73 and MicroVAX-II machines (along with an 11/34A,
>>11/24 and 11/23, maybe the VAX-11/730.) Of course, there are a couple of
>>RD's involved within the uPDP and uVAX here.
>
>I've been slow in putting RQDX3 details on sunsite's PDP-11 archive,
>I will admit, mainly because I despise RD-series MFM drives.

I can understand that :)  I read comments here and elsewhere that were not
too favorable re RD-series drives. Tho I did read one or two msgs somewhere
that said the RD54 was somewhat reliable. 

In my uVAX-II there is an RD53 and a TK50 tape. The RD is controlled by an
RQDX3 (M7555). I won't know its condition 'til I light 'er up later this
year. Let's just hope for the best :-|

However, in the uPDP-11 there is a hard disk that is not marked w/an RD-
number. It is a Vertex Peripherals model V185 hung off a 3rd-party
controller designated as "UDC11". What can anybody tell me about that
Vertex product? Equivalent RD- number? Durability? Etc.? 


>Most of this is because I don't get called in until the RD drive is
>very sick and dying, and of course the users didn't make any backups
>for the past decade!  You better believe that I charge a sizable fee
>for data recovery/system restoration in this case!

"Backups??!" "What's a backup?" "Why do I need to do that?" (Yes, I've
heard those questions from a couple of different people over the years....) 

Wish I was positioned to do data recovery. I could use that to partly
replace a real job as I was recently "downsized" from after over 24 years.
(Today's lesson, kids, is to NOT expect to stay at a job permanently! :(  )

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From workapulo at my-dejanews.com  Fri Sep 25 12:13:43 1998
From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Email address changes
Message-ID: <FBEKIBBCICKECAAA@my-dejanews.com>

Just wanted to let people know that I'm trimming the number of email addresses I use down a bit.



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 25 12:13:37 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: EDSAC on your desk.
In-Reply-To: <19980922211740.7447.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13390765829.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[The Processor Ref Manual is at...]

Oh Holy ^%#@%!  That's the manual I've been looking for!

Kickarse!

[time passes...]

Just finished printing the whole fscking thing.  (It's about 3" thick :)
Looks great.  The pictures are pretty washed, but now, I can change
ka10.c to kl10.c and get to cracking!  Thanks alot!
(I even got a big binder to shove this in :)
-------


From erd at infinet.com  Fri Sep 25 14:21:20 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: IBM 1130 Was: Re: Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980925105853.01063510@199.1.22.12> from "Christian Fandt" at Sep 25, 98 11:23:05 am
Message-ID: <199809251921.PAA10288@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> At 13:52 23-09-98 -0400, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >> 
> >> At 23:08 22-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
> >> >No, I will be letting the air of your car's tires.
> >> 
> >> Oh no you won't ;)  I'll get a set of those new Michelin Zero Pressure
> >> tires (ones which the TV ad shows a 3/4" hole being drilled in the sidewall
> >> and the car driving away; 55 MPH for 50 miles... [howzat work anyway?])
> >
> >Special sidewalls that are stiff enough to resist being folded over...
> 
> I figured it was some sort of stiff sidewall. Must be a real b**ch to
> install and remove from the rims. I know what it's like to deal with
> mounting 6-ply sidewall tires used on small  commercial vehicles not having
> split rims. 

I have no personal experience with that, thankfully.  I pay people to do
that kind of stuff for me.  I'll do bicycle tyres, but not big stuff.

> Pressure monitor? How does the driver get that feedback? Obviously there
> would need to be information sent to the driver as to pressure failure. 

The ad I saw had a small box the size of a radar detector, mounted on the
ceiling in the drivers line of sight.  In each wheel, there was a small
instrument mounted on the inner face of the rim that I presume was battery
powered and reported in by radio.

-ethan


From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 15:01:30 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Email address changes
Message-ID: <199809252001.AA04154@world.std.com>


< apulo1@earthlink.net
< and
< workapulo@my-dejanews.com
< 
< I dont use the dejanews account much, mostly just to read my popmail (fr

that;s a shame as I had to out earthlink.com in my spam filter due to the 
large number of spam using that address.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 15:01:37 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
Message-ID: <199809252001.AA04247@world.std.com>

< Sounds like a dumb question and probably is.  I have moved from Chicago
< to a small town in
< Massachussetts (Randolph).  Is there a "junkyard" where one can find Va
< stuff?

There maybe but I don't know of one.  I'm down the road in Framingham.

Being as eastern MA used to be called the "greater Maynard area" by DEC
people (Digits) there should be more than I see around.  They arent scarce 
either.  Colleges are a good place to look.

Allison



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 25 15:09:09 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Does anyone have a list of KL10 console commands?
Message-ID: <13390797784.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

Was it like the KS10 console?
Or more like the Large-VAX console?
-------


From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Sep 25 15:39:54 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Does anyone have a list of KL10 console commands?
In-Reply-To: <13390797784.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <13390797784.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <19980925203954.28127.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have a list of KL10 console commands?
> Was it like the KS10 console?
> Or more like the Large-VAX console?

IIRC, they are documented in the TOPS-10 Operator's Manual and the
TOPS-20 Operator's Manual.  Unfortunately I haven't been able to track
down copies of either.


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 25 15:55:45 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:52 2005
Subject: Does anyone have a list of KL10 console commands?
In-Reply-To: <19980925203954.28127.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13390806267.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Needs TOPS-20 ops manual...]

Hey!  I think that's on Toad!

[^C, PUSH, DIR DOC:, TYPE DOC:OP_GUIDE.TXT,^C, POP, CONT]

There's the TOPS-20 OPERATOR'S GUIDE, is that it?
-------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 13:06:09 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: More monitor Repair
In-Reply-To: <199809250225.WAA14541@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 24, 98 10:24:35 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMcFx-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 13:08:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <360AD67E.3A2F6DC@bigfoot.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Sep 24, 98 06:32:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMcI1-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 13:12:45 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <199809250049.RAA19722@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Sep 24, 98 05:49:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMcMK-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 13:15:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Functional repairs, not cosmetic
In-Reply-To: <19980925014836.24142.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 25, 98 01:48:36 am
Message-ID: <m0zMcOo-000IySC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 13:14:30 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <360AF52E.CE8F7106@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Sep 24, 98 06:43:10 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMcO1-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 15:05:54 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <199809250228.WAA25859@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 24, 98 10:21:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMe7q-000IyTC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 15:09:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <199809250235.AA23675@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 24, 98 10:35:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMeAr-000IyUC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 25 16:23:30 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Don Tarbell's computer
In-Reply-To: <199809250641.XAA10502@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Sep 24, 98 11:41:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zMfKw-000IyWC@p850ug1>

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From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Fri Sep 25 12:49:22 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair
In-Reply-To: <199809251628.AA17379@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809252125.RAA19725@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:28:17 -0400
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Monitor repair

> < I have the same monitor.  Don't have the same problem, though.  It may b
> < just the picture tube warming up, which would explain why the chill spra
> < doesn't do anything.  Although 10 minutes seems like an awfully long tim
> < for tube warm-up.  Mine gets to full size, and warmed up in about 15
> < seconds.  It's from 1992 (or93).  

Snip!

> 
> My first thought was power supply but any point I've measured is stable
> on warm up.
> 
> Allison
> 
Hi!  Dropping in to offer info while still hunting the problem in the 
Tobishi monitor and cleaning those horrible glue.

For this width changes on warmup, that's not normal and all of my 
monitors are around that age @3 to 5 years in age and doen't have 
this problem besides aging tubes.

That growing width on warmup is in horizontal width area and 
pincushion, any iffy powering off the flyback.  Check those 1% 
resistors for drifts, check many capacitors too.

Jason D.

I'm not sure if my email server is working right...see if that comes 
out to your netherlands at all... thanks!
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Fri Sep 25 16:48:55 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
References: <199809252001.AA04154@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <360C0FC7.3ABC056@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Allison J Parent wrote:
> 
> < apulo1@earthlink.net
> < and
> < workapulo@my-dejanews.com
> <
> < I dont use the dejanews account much, mostly just to read my popmail (fr
> 
> that;s a shame as I had to out earthlink.com in my spam filter due to the
> large number of spam using that address.
> 
> Allison

I read the dejanews account all the time, I just try not to send
anything from it.

Tony


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Fri Sep 25 17:40:52 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
In-Reply-To: <FBEKIBBCICKECAAA@my-dejanews.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980925174052.56e70d48@intellistar.net>

At 10:13 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Just wanted to let people know that I'm trimming the number of email
addresses I use down a bit.
>
>>From now on, I'm only really going to check two email addresses:
>
>apulo1@earthlink.net
>and
>workapulo@my-dejanews.com

  Tony,

  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
permanent part of my SPAM filters now.

  Joe



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 25 17:41:03 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Does anyone have a list of KL10 console commands?
In-Reply-To: <13390806267.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <13390825436.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Is this it?]

No, I read through it.  It's not.  It has some UI, and some listings,
but not a list of commands.

-------


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 25 18:11:26 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: More monitor Repair
Message-ID: <19980925231126.25336.qmail@hotmail.com>





If it is something shutting down, could be a paperclip or something.
>
>> 
>> While we're on monitor repair:
>>  I picked up an IBM PS/1 SVGA which when turned on flashes a normal
>> screen for less than a second, which collapses and then displays a 
slowly 
>> degrading squiggly vertical line which gradually shortens and blanks.
>
>A MDA monitor does something like that on switch-off, but then that CRT 
>has a rediculously long persistance phosphor...
>
>Do just check that it's not the main PSU shutting down (and leaving the 
>monitor to run on the charge in some of the caps). Does the power-on 
lamp 
>remain on, for example (if there is one). What about the CRT heater?
>
>My guess is that the horizontal output stage is shutting down (but the 
>EHT is staying up for some reason). Assuming that they are separate, 
I'd 
>start by looking at the horizontal driver and output stages, their 
>operating voltages, etc
>
>Alas I don't have schematics for any IBM monitor apart from the first 3 
>(5151, 5153, 5154).
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 25 18:15:28 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Newton modem
Message-ID: <19980925231528.24729.qmail@hotmail.com>


This isn't really classic, but since the Newton is out of production,
I thought someone might be interested in a shrinkwrapped modem for
the Newton for $8 at a thrift store. I think it might get hard to get
one from Apple...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Fri Sep 25 18:43:45 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Newton modem
In-Reply-To: <19980925231528.24729.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809252337.QAA06486@mxu3.u.washington.edu>

Yes I would, but I went to a thrift store and they didn't have any.
--Chuck

At 04:15 PM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>This isn't really classic, but since the Newton is out of production,
>I thought someone might be interested in a shrinkwrapped modem for
>the Newton for $8 at a thrift store. I think it might get hard to get
>one from Apple...
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 



From rexstout at uswest.net  Fri Sep 25 19:53:18 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Newton modem
In-Reply-To: <19980925231528.24729.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <l03130302b231eaaff5c4@[207.225.88.240]>

>This isn't really classic, but since the Newton is out of production,
>I thought someone might be interested in a shrinkwrapped modem for
>the Newton for $8 at a thrift store. I think it might get hard to get
>one from Apple...
Well, that's not a bad price... But IIRC, the Newton modem wasn't anything
to get excited over. Something like 9600 or 2400, I forget. I think there
were a few PCMCIA card modems that worked with the Newton line, and of
course you can plug in a normal modem to the serial port on the side. Now,
the parallel printer interface is interesting. Plug it into the serial
port, goes to a little box with a Centronics connector on the other side,
and had something inside that loads the needed drivers into the Newt. Has
several different drivers depending on what type of printer it is, works
with any generic printer with the normal modes(Epson emulation and some
other stuff, I don't remember. been a while since I plugged it in).

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   orham@qth.net   list admin                KD7BCY         |
|   ham-mac@qth.net                        Portland, OR      |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From tomowad at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 25 19:27:22 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
Message-ID: <199809260027.RAA13491@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
>earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
>permanent part of my SPAM filters now.

I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want to 
get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink? 
 Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From mbg at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 19:29:07 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
Message-ID: <199809260029.AA21922@world.std.com>

(and I'm just down the road from Allison, also in Framingham)...

You could try Eli's (formerly Eli Heffron) in cambridge...

They've had lots of dec stuff in the past, and in fact I've
gotten some of my stuff (a BA23) from them...

They have LOTS of 'junk'...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 20:09:08 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
Message-ID: <199809260109.AA10488@world.std.com>

< >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
< >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're
< >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
< 
< I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want t
< get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink
<  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!

Unfortunatly the spammers are address spoofing earthlink and earthlink 
customers suffer.  It was a matter of practical necessity as most of the 
spammer were faking the earthink address and there were far to many 
different addresses of the spammers... simplest path.

Allison



From cfandt at servtech.com  Fri Sep 25 20:21:34 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
In-Reply-To: <199809260029.AA21922@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809260121.BAA17995@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 20:29 25-09-98 -0400, Megan Gentry wrote:
>(and I'm just down the road from Allison, also in Framingham)...
>
>You could try Eli's (formerly Eli Heffron) in cambridge...
>
>They've had lots of dec stuff in the past, and in fact I've
>gotten some of my stuff (a BA23) from them...
>
>They have LOTS of 'junk'...
>
>					Megan Gentry
>					Former RT-11 Developer

This is to the person who initiated this thread:

I live a fair distance away from Megan, Allison and Eli's but I do have a
VAX 11/750, TU80 and two RA81's available to fetch. I'm in Western NY State.

I got it in a big haul of PDP-11 and VAX gear back in July. I do not have
space in the garage to keep all the goodies. Since winter will come soon
(too soon, rather) it should be taken out of there ASAP. Damp, chilly condx
is not too good for these machines.

Let me know....

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From wpe101 at banet.net  Fri Sep 25 20:30:08 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights new hack method|sec info see url
Message-ID: <360C439F.DB40045E@banet.net>


For those who already know about this, or are uninterested, my
apologies..

Will

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C26833%2C00.html?dd.ne.htmldisp.hl.ne
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From wpe101 at banet.net  Fri Sep 25 20:35:53 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Intel, Netscape stake Linux?
Message-ID: <360C44F7.77770740@banet.net>

Another CNET url, regarding Linux, my apologies to those
uninterested.....

Will

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,26837,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh
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From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Fri Sep 25 21:10:14 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
References: <199809260121.BAA17995@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <360C4D06.ECF5CD60@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Christian Fandt wrote:
> 
> At 20:29 25-09-98 -0400, Megan Gentry wrote:
> >(and I'm just down the road from Allison, also in Framingham)...
> >
> >You could try Eli's (formerly Eli Heffron) in cambridge...
> >
> >They've had lots of dec stuff in the past, and in fact I've
> >gotten some of my stuff (a BA23) from them...
> >
> >They have LOTS of 'junk'...
> >
> >                                       Megan Gentry
> >                                       Former RT-11 Developer
> 
> This is to the person who initiated this thread:
> 
> I live a fair distance away from Megan, Allison and Eli's but I do have a
> VAX 11/750, TU80 and two RA81's available to fetch. I'm in Western NY State.
> 
> I got it in a big haul of PDP-11 and VAX gear back in July. I do not have
> space in the garage to keep all the goodies. Since winter will come soon
> (too soon, rather) it should be taken out of there ASAP. Damp, chilly condx
> is not too good for these machines.
> 
> Let me know....
> 
> --Chris
> -- --
> Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
> Jamestown, NY  USA
> Member of Antique Wireless Association
>         URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

Dang! I'm somewhat close to Megan and Allison (I live in Lawrence, MA
and work in Framingham). And I'd love a Vax 11/750. But I...

1. Dont have room for it in my car (a 1998 VW Beetle)
2. Dont have room for it in my apartment
3. Dont have room for it in my storage area
4. Haven't signed the lease on the mill space yet

:(  :(  :(  :(

Tony


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Fri Sep 25 21:20:21 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Quantum Q540 as a RD52
Message-ID: <19980925.212022.176.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:44:40 -0400 Christian Fandt <cfandt@servtech.com>
writes:
>number. It is a Vertex Peripherals model V185 hung off a 3rd-party
>controller designated as "UDC11". What can anybody tell me about that
>Vertex product? Equivalent RD- number? Durability? Etc.? 

I remember the V-185 well.  They were used by 3Com in their 3server70,
and 3Server3 line of file servers.  They were made by Vertex, who later 
became a division of Priam.  They are tough, reliable drives, as long 
as they work.  When they break, they tend to totally self-destruct.

They are also RLL-Rated, one of the few 'stock' drives (that I know of) 
that didn't require a design change for this capability.

I have no idea what the RD- designation would be, but I can tell you
it's geometry is 1166cyl x 7h x 17s for mfm or 28spt for RLL.

They're good drives.  They're also rather scarce.

Jeff


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From william at ans.net  Fri Sep 25 22:54:33 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
In-Reply-To: <199809260121.BAA17995@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980925234850.25057C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I live a fair distance away from Megan, Allison and Eli's but I do have a
> VAX 11/750, TU80 and two RA81's available to fetch. I'm in Western NY State.

For anyone that cares, I have a set of VAX-11/750 boards that I need to
get rid of. They might be handy as a set of spares. Included is the hard
to find DEC-use-only HDM (Hardware Diagnostic Module, I think. Allison?).

Open to just about all offers...

Actually, I will be liquidating nearly all of my DEC stuff pretty soon.
Mostly Unibus cards, I think, but probably a few weirdos as well, and a
little core. I will post a list after I sort things out.

No, the LINC-8, PDP-8/s, PDP-8/e, and KS-10 (in a week or so, that is) are
NOT going!

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From allisonp at world.std.com  Fri Sep 25 23:15:06 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights new hack method|sec info see url
Message-ID: <199809260415.AA20604@world.std.com>

< <a href=3D"/Radio/Index/0,55,,00.html?st.ne.nav.rad.idx"><font color=3D"
< 000000"><b>CNET Radio</b></font></a><big>&nbsp;</big><br>
< <a href=3D"/Perspectives/Index/0,175,,00.html?st.ne.nav.pers.idx"><font 
< olor=3D"#000000"><b>Perspectives</b></font></a><big>&nbsp;</big><br>
< <a href=3D"/Newsmakers/index.html?st.ne.nav.nmkr.idx"><font color=3D"#00
< 000"><b>Newsmakers</b></font></a><big>&nbsp;</big><br>


Please post only clear text... not everyone can read/display .html.

Allison



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sat Sep 26 01:42:22 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Dilog DQ614 and DQ615
Message-ID: <v0401170ab2323585fc63@[207.220.34.37]>

I'm searching for any info on the following two Q-Bus controller boards:

Dilog DQ614 rev. N	RL01/02 Emulation using MFM disks
Dilog DQ615 rev. B	RK06/07 Emulation using MFM disks

I was able to find a procedure using DejaNews for setting up a DQ614K, it
looks like I can't do much of anything without a floppy, is there any way
to get one still, and is it really needed?  I'm also trying to figure out
exactly what these boards will accept for drives.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From erd at infinet.com  Sat Sep 26 02:52:47 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Dilog DQ614 and DQ615
In-Reply-To: <v0401170ab2323585fc63@[207.220.34.37]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 25, 98 10:42:22 pm
Message-ID: <199809260752.DAA18336@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> I'm searching for any info on the following two Q-Bus controller boards:
> 
> Dilog DQ614 rev. N	RL01/02 Emulation using MFM disks
> Dilog DQ615 rev. B	RK06/07 Emulation using MFM disks
> 
> I was able to find a procedure using DejaNews for setting up a DQ614K, it
> looks like I can't do much of anything without a floppy, is there any way
> to get one still, and is it really needed?
I'm in the same boat.  I have a DQ614 (rev unknown) that I got from a former
employer out of a DataRAM 11/23 clone.  It also came with an industry-standard
8" floppy, all in a very un-DEC-like box.  About the only DEC part was the
CPU.  The rest was all third-party stuff.

I have never seen the diagnostic/format floppy for my DQ614.  



> I'm also trying to figure out exactly what these boards will accept for 
> drives.

Mine used to have a Rodime 10Mb drive on it, but the drive has never
worked with that controller for longer than I've had it.  I'd be very
happy if it were possible to use an ST-251 or such.

Thanks for any tips.

-ethan


From foxvideo at wincom.net  Sat Sep 26 05:31:19 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068
In-Reply-To: <360BA1BE.2EAF@bright.net>
References: <3.0.2.32.19980925092649.00694dfc@mail.wincom.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980926063119.006916f0@mail.wincom.net>

At 09:59 AM 9/25/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Charles E. Fox wrote:
>>         The Timex Sinclair 2068 in our collection came with a DVE power
supply, 15
>> V at 1 Amp DC, and with the outside sleeve of the plug positive and the
>> inside negative.
>> 
>>
Regards
>> 
>>
Charlie Fox
>
>Hi Charlie,
>What does "DVE" stand for?

-------	DVE was the manufacturer    ---------
						C. F.
>-- 
>Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
>Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
>Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
>BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
>http://www.bright.net/~oajones
>
>



From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 26 07:35:02 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068
Message-ID: <360CDF76.5F68@bright.net>

I have a Timex Sinclair 2068 that needs a good home. The computer is in
very good condition. I don't have any documentation for it. If you are
interested please email me. I'm asking $40 which also includes shipping
costs.

--Alan
-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 26 09:34:42 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Newton modem
Message-ID: <19980926143443.16063.qmail@hotmail.com>





OK, you can have it. How would you like to pay?
>
>Yes I would, but I went to a thrift store and they didn't have any.
>--Chuck
>
>At 04:15 PM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>This isn't really classic, but since the Newton is out of production,
>>I thought someone might be interested in a shrinkwrapped modem for
>>the Newton for $8 at a thrift store. I think it might get hard to get
>>one from Apple...
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> 
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From blakeman at creative-net.net  Sat Sep 26 09:44:11 1998
From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Motorola UDS Modem
Message-ID: <360CFDBB.B375848F@creative-net.net>

Spoken for now, thanks for the inquiries.



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 26 10:10:31 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Where to find Vax stuff in Mass.
Message-ID: <199809261510.AA06940@world.std.com>

< > I live a fair distance away from Megan, Allison and Eli's but I do hav
< > VAX 11/750, TU80 and two RA81's available to fetch. I'm in Western NY 
< 
< For anyone that cares, I have a set of VAX-11/750 boards that I need to
< get rid of. They might be handy as a set of spares. Included is the har
< to find DEC-use-only HDM (Hardware Diagnostic Module, I think. Allison?)

The HDM is scarce.  A 750 is a neat machine but I don't have space for 
it.

< No, the LINC-8, PDP-8/s, PDP-8/e, and KS-10 (in a week or so, that is) a
< NOT going!

An 8e or 8a with programmer panel is on my wish list.  What I'd like 
would have 8k of core and EMA and a serial card other wise minimal 
config.  I'd like to do some hacking like putting a IDE or some such 
drive on it.

Allison



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Sat Sep 26 11:03:10 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights new hack method|sec info see url
In-Reply-To: <199809260415.AA20604@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <13391015148.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

Don't sent HTML here!  HTML belongs on web pages, not email!
-------


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 26 10:58:42 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Memory needed (slightly OT)
Message-ID: <199809261606.MAA11353@gate.usaor.net>

Okay, this isn't quite classic, yet, but This is one of the few places that
I know of where someone could help me.

I have a PS/2 L40sx (laptop) that I need RAM for.  I need either the
special RAM made for this computer, or standard 4 meg IBM True Parity
SIMMS.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Sat Sep 26 12:06:12 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights new hack method|sec info see url
Message-ID: <d13acf38.360d1f04@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-26 12:06:11 EDT, you write:

> Don't sent HTML here!  HTML belongs on web pages, not email!
>  -------

html email sucks! speaking of such, i subscribe to a windont95 newsletter
called lockergnome and the writer insists on sending out the letter in html
format. at least a weekly digest still gets sent in plain text format. i guess
this idiot assumes that EVERYONE run ms' worst using internet exploder 4. but
then again, that's the mindset that bill gates wants everyone to have, right? 


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Sat Sep 26 12:09:55 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Memory needed (slightly OT)
Message-ID: <ccac8eb4.360d1fe3@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-26 12:08:13 EDT, you write:

> Okay, this isn't quite classic, yet, but This is one of the few places that
>  I know of where someone could help me.
>  
>  I have a PS/2 L40sx (laptop) that I need RAM for.  I need either the
>  special RAM made for this computer, or standard 4 meg IBM True Parity
>  SIMMS.

hey, that's a pre-thinkpad thinkpad!  lol
you could try asking in comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware  but everyone wants inflated
prices for parity (ps2) memory. there's a place in north carolina that sells
old ibm stuff. i betcha they'd have what you are looking for. 
tekserve  919.557.6242


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep 26 12:10:08 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
In-Reply-To: <199809260027.RAA13491@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <199809262113.RAA10909@smtp.interlog.com>

On 25 Sep 98 at 17:27, Tom Owad wrote:

> >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
> >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
> >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
> 
> I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want to 
> get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink? 
>  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!
> 
> Tom Owad
> 
> --
> Sysop of Caesarville Online
> Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
> 
> 
 Sorry Tom , I'm another that's blocking earthlink. As well as anything with 
cyber in the from line or money in the title line. I've not as yet 
filtered out AOL and hotmail is on the edge. These things have cut down my spam 
to around 1 or 2 a day. Losing an occasional valid e-mail is worth the lack of 
aggravation.

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep 26 12:10:09 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights new hack method|sec info see url
In-Reply-To: <360C439F.DB40045E@banet.net>
Message-ID: <199809262113.RAA10919@smtp.interlog.com>

On 25 Sep 98 at 21:30, Will Emerson wrote:

> 
> For those who already know about this, or are uninterested, my
> apologies..
> 
> Will
> 
> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C26833%2C00.html?dd.ne.htmldisp.hl.ne
> 
 Will, your apologies are for the wrong thing. An URL would have been 
sufficient without the attachment with numerous URL, html script, and java
instructions. You must realise that many recipients of this list do not use 
windows and in many cases not msdos. I use win 3.1 but even my Pegasus 
mail program was challenged. Usually I skip by msgs. with HTML or business
card attatchments but in this case I didn't notice until too late. Others don't 
have the option and this can really screw up their packet.

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sat Sep 26 12:41:09 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Memory needed (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <ccac8eb4.360d1fe3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199809262117.RAA27105@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:09:55 EDT
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          SUPRDAVE@aol.com
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Memory needed (slightly OT)

> In a message dated 98-09-26 12:08:13 EDT, you write:
> 
> > Okay, this isn't quite classic, yet, but This is one of the few places that
> >  I know of where someone could help me.
> >  
> >  I have a PS/2 L40sx (laptop) that I need RAM for.  I need either the
> >  special RAM made for this computer, or standard 4 meg IBM True Parity
> >  SIMMS.
> 
> hey, that's a pre-thinkpad thinkpad!  lol
> you could try asking in comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware  but everyone wants inflated
> prices for parity (ps2) memory. there's a place in north carolina that sells
> old ibm stuff. i betcha they'd have what you are looking for. 
> tekserve  919.557.6242

HI everybody!

But, you can use standard Fast Page Mode (FPM) parity 72pin simms
in those PS/2 series and that L40SX.  After modding the presence 
lines to proper settings as shown in that webpage:

I have number of machines that requires this mods to ram 
sticks so they will work in them and really save a brundle.  I pay 
about $25 CDN a stick for generic 4mb 70ns types with this specs.
And that are from my local computer reseller.

http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm

Jason D.

> 
> 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From wpe101 at banet.net  Sat Sep 26 17:09:39 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Navy fights, & Linux posts sorry 'bout HTML
Message-ID: <360D6622.72C8A42A@banet.net>

My deepest apologies.. I only meant to post the url's, NOT all the
(expliative
deleted) HTML stuff...


Will




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep 26 05:26:09 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
References: <199809262113.RAA10909@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <360CC141.E4A5553E@sprintmail.com>



Lawrence Walker wrote:

> On 25 Sep 98 at 17:27, Tom Owad wrote:
>
> > >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
> > >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
> > >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
> >
> > I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want to
> > get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink?
> >  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!
> >
> > Tom Owad
> >
> > --
> > Sysop of Caesarville Online
> > Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
> >
> >
>  Sorry Tom , I'm another that's blocking earthlink. As well as anything with
> cyber in the from line or money in the title line. I've not as yet
> filtered out AOL and hotmail is on the edge. These things have cut down my spam
> to around 1 or 2 a day. Losing an occasional valid e-mail is worth the lack of
> aggravation.
>
> ciao            larry
> lwalker@interlog.com





From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep 26 05:27:41 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Email address changes
References: <199809262113.RAA10909@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <360CC19D.ECF7FF79@sprintmail.com>

Lawrence Walker wrote:

> On 25 Sep 98 at 17:27, Tom Owad wrote:
>
> > >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
> > >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
> > >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
> >
> > I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want to
> > get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink?
> >  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!
> >
> > Tom Owad

Guess I can't send any email to you either I'm on Sprint/Earthlink also..
Phil Clayton



From cdrmool at interlog.com  Sat Sep 26 17:49:39 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: html in e-mail
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980926184641.10156A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

As a Pine user, I don't much like html ladden messages.  I do however have
a small dos program called "htmlstrip" that cleans up all the junk.  I
find it handy for mail and downloaded files off of web sites that are
html. If anyone wants it I'll pass it on.  Otherwise its fairly easy to
find via a search engine.  

Colan 






From danjo at xnet.com  Sat Sep 26 18:05:45 1998
From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair [Kind of]
In-Reply-To: <360A7BA5.D1121AE3@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980926175506.26248A-100000@typhoon>


Well - speaking of monitors....

I got a beater here.  A Sony GDM-1601.  It was dropped a couple of
times.  Don't know for sure, but the case is pretty busted up.
I salvaged it from a dumpster 8-)  Takes the 5 BNC type cable.
I can't find ANY specs on this one.  It powers up fine and even
achieves horizontal sync ... but the vertical - well...  Now I
'think' the problem is just what vertical sync rate to drive it
with.  It depends on what kind of monitor it is - CGA... don't
think so.  Not with a 5 BNC cable.  EGA maybe.  VGA - certainly
with in the time range of when I got it.  So - does anyone know
anything about or where to find anything about this monitor???
I remember searching the web and about all I found was the 1604
range and above.  I would love to get it going as I need monitors.

BC



From william at ans.net  Sat Sep 26 18:17:29 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Misc. for sale
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980926185047.12244A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

I am starting to prune out a lot of stuff from my pile. Best offer,
reasonable or silly, for the following:

(1) TRS-80 CoCo, 4K. I think the video is bad, as it spews out junk video
to my TV. The CPU seems to be doing something, as I can make out a some
characters on the screen. The reset button also does something. I assume
from the "Channel 3-4" switch, the thing has a modulator inside, and could
be the problem. I have better things to fix.

(1) Apple Parallel Printer card. Probably out of a ][ or some such thing.
Untested.

(1) Norden PDP-11/M control panel. This is a little handheld thingie that
essentially allows a soldier/sailor/etc. to do very basic functions (stop,
reset, etc.) and watch for bus and parity errors (LEDs). For the person
that _thought_ they had every PDP-11 part ever made.

(1) HardCard EZ, and two Conner drives. The HardCard has a big "127"
printed on the side (capacity?). No idea if it is good - same with the two
"normal" disks (types 2 and 17, for you IDE fans out there). 

(1) set RSX-11/M Programmers Manuals, Volumes 4A and 4B. These look
reasonably complete. No, I do not have the other volumes.

Most of this stuff is headed toward the jaws of my pliers, so feel free to
offer as little as you want. Just remember you pay shipping from Carmel,
NY (or thereabouts).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Sat Sep 26 18:19:40 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Monitor repair [Kind of]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980926175506.26248A-100000@typhoon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980926191834.12244B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I got a beater here.  A Sony GDM-1601.

This is very likely a tube from a workstation - not Sun or SGI, however.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 26 18:55:04 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: Memory needed (slightly OT)
Message-ID: <199809270002.UAA09821@gate.usaor.net>

I have the URL, and the info to modify the SIMMS.  I just need to get the
SIMMS.  True parity seems to be awfully hard to find anymore.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> HI everybody!
> 
> But, you can use standard Fast Page Mode (FPM) parity 72pin simms
> in those PS/2 series and that L40SX.  After modding the presence 
> lines to proper settings as shown in that webpage:
> 
> I have number of machines that requires this mods to ram 
> sticks so they will work in them and really save a brundle.  I pay 
> about $25 CDN a stick for generic 4mb 70ns types with this specs.
> And that are from my local computer reseller.
> 
> http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm
> 
> Jason D.
> 
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 26 19:29:32 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:53 2005
Subject: WTB: Compaq Portable III stuff
Message-ID: <199809270037.UAA13788@gate.usaor.net>

Hi!

I have a Compaq Portable III that Id like to get going a bit better than it
is now.  

Here's what I need for it:

RAM - It uses special RAM that is about as long as a 72-pin chip, bit is
only about 1/2" high, and doesn't have the notch in the middle.  I
currently have 2 MB, but would like to get it up to the max (16 MB?)

Modem (I think that's what the slot's for) - There's a little knock-out
under the disk drives, and a big open space inside the case, and a
connector.  That's really all I can say about that.

Manual - Any have a manual that they'd want to get rid of (or photocopy)?

I've checked the date on this thing (stamped on the inside of the back
cover), and It's dated 1988, so it just makes it for the list.

ThAnX again,	
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep 26 19:35:50 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Compaq correction
Message-ID: <199809270043.UAA14503@gate.usaor.net>

I'm not sure if they're the same, or not, but on Compaq's website, the
Portable III, and the Portable 386 were listed as two different computers. 
I need the parts for the Portable 386.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sat Sep 26 20:13:57 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809261753.A6140-0100000@netcom3>



  Well, I suppose a Statistically Significant Number of folk are 
attending the VCF II...  not, however. (snif..)

  I consoled myself by putting in my usual apperance at the TRW Ham 
Swapmeet here in cloudy SoCal..  whereat I picked up two 
list-related items, viz:

1) A complete set of Tech and Ref manual for the 286-based Compaqs,
complete w/disks and pocket refs, etc... for $2. 

2)  A Jonos Escort portable, running CP/M 3.0.

 This cute little box came from NASA, and has a Syquest drive 
alognside the 1/2 height HD..  the Syquest is unfortunately dead, 
and/or the cartridge is blank. The HD, however is *full* of Stuff, 
including WordStar, which is how I found out what who made this box, 
as it has no outside markings other than the model and serial 
numbers, telling me it's a Model C 2500.  

  It has an RS232 port, and an IEEE 488, a telephone jack, an 
external video RCA jack, and a many-pin Berg connector marked 
'External 8" Subsystem'

  I haven't had much more time to examine it closely, though it does 
boot and run with no problems, other than complaining about the B: 
drive not working.

  In advance of my doing the usual WebSearch on it..  any comments 
or info re: this box would be fun to hear.



  Also I have a lead on a "few" Rockwell AIM 65s; I missed the one 
by 30 seconds.. it went for $5 and the buyer declined my offer of 
$20..  damn I *hate* when that happens...  the seller and I 
exchanged phone/e-mail tho, and I will (hopefully) hear about the 
remaining units next week. [He told me the one I wanted had no ROMs 
in it... so I'm not completely depressed.]

 I bought a bunch of other stuff, too, but nothing on-topic.

  Cheers

John






From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Sat Sep 26 20:12:45 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Compaq correction
Message-ID: <001e01bde9b3$efa18640$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

The portable III was a 286, otherwise identical though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Willgruber <roblwill@usaor.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, 27 September 1998 10:44
Subject: Compaq correction


>I'm not sure if they're the same, or not, but on Compaq's website, the
>Portable III, and the Portable 386 were listed as two different computers.
>I need the parts for the Portable 386.
>--
>         -Jason
>(roblwill@usaor.net)
>   ICQ#-1730318



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sat Sep 26 20:23:36 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Compaq correction
In-Reply-To: <199809270043.UAA14503@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809261801.A6140-0100000@netcom3>



  Jason, I have a copy of the Compaq Service Quick Reference Guide, 
with several (small) pages devoted to your Portable 386..  e-mail me 
privately and I can copy them...  this is the basic tech and 
hardware config info for all of Compaq's machines from the 286 up 
thru the SystemPro XL servers

  Any others needing this info, respond likwise and I will endeavor
to get you the Data. 

  Cheers

 John

 cc:poster



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep 26 16:36:16 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Email address changes
In-Reply-To: <360CC19D.ECF7FF79@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809270139.VAA02724@smtp.interlog.com>

On 26 Sep 98 at 6:27, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Lawrence Walker wrote:
> 
> > On 25 Sep 98 at 17:27, Tom Owad wrote:
> >
> > > >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
> > > >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and they're a
> > > >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
> > >
> > > I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I want to
> > > get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from earthlink?
> > >  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!
> > >
> > > Tom Owad
> 
> Guess I can't send any email to you either I'm on Sprint/Earthlink also..
> Phil Clayton
> 
 My e-mail program didn't properly attribute the original reply to Allison.

I just checked your e-mail headers. It has @sprintmail on the from 
line. I do see earthlink in the routing tho. Like Allison the multitude of spam 
I was getting had earthlink as the domain so that's what I'm filtering.
 If Sprint hooked up with Earthlink that's another mistake they've made
beside only accepting Win 95 users. If it weren't for that I might have
signed on with them since they give unlimited for the same amount I'm
paying my ISP for 120 hours. I use Sprint for my long-distance calls and they 
have some bonuses for that combo,  but with my present ISP I also have shell 
usage and there's no way in hell I'm going to switch to Win 9x  because of the 
mistake of some marketing weenie who believes all the Micro Sloth hype. 

BTW what's happening with your community and hurricane George ? I had heard 
everybody was being forced to evacuate.

ciao		larry

lwalker@interlog.com


From wpe101 at banet.net  Sat Sep 26 20:53:17 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Govt (DOD) computer (&other stuff) sales
Message-ID: <360D9A8D.5A81CBF2@banet.net>

The U.S. Govt lists stuff for sale at the following site:
     www.drms.dla.mil

                                Will


From thomas100 at home.com  Sat Sep 26 22:05:40 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
Message-ID: <199809270302.TAA12971@next.ireadyco.com>

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From donm at cts.com  Sat Sep 26 23:18:40 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809261753.A6140-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980926211126.16685A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

**** snip ****
 
> 2)  A Jonos Escort portable, running CP/M 3.0.
> 
>  This cute little box came from NASA, and has a Syquest drive 
> alognside the 1/2 height HD..  the Syquest is unfortunately dead, 
> and/or the cartridge is blank. The HD, however is *full* of Stuff, 
> including WordStar, which is how I found out what who made this box, 
> as it has no outside markings other than the model and serial 
> numbers, telling me it's a Model C 2500.  
> 
>   It has an RS232 port, and an IEEE 488, a telephone jack, an 
> external video RCA jack, and a many-pin Berg connector marked 
> 'External 8" Subsystem'
> 
>   I haven't had much more time to examine it closely, though it does 
> boot and run with no problems, other than complaining about the B: 
> drive not working.
> 
>   In advance of my doing the usual WebSearch on it..  any comments 
> or info re: this box would be fun to hear.
 
John, the only one that I have been exposed to had two 3.5" SSDD drives - 
Sony, IIRC, the old ones that did not open the slide on the disk - and no 
hard disk.  It was based on the STD bus, so hardware mods should have 
been easy.  Yours may have a later floppy, I'd guess.  Rather nice little 
package.

I would be interested to hear what HD controller they used.

						 - don 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
    visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm




From jrkeys at concentric.net  Sat Sep 26 12:06:42 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
In-Reply-To: <199809270302.TAA12971@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <000201bde970$088e62c0$8ab0adce@5x86jk>

If you every see another cube for that price let me know I'd love to have a
first generation for my collection.  John
    -----Original Message-----
    From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Thomas Pfaff
    Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:06 PM
    To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
    Subject: Re: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff


    Hi,

    Yep I agree. HTML is annoying even on platforms that support it as an
internal functionality.
    It _really_ doesn't make much sense in a group that discusses 10 year
old and older computer junk.

    Hey did anyone see that somebody bid $425 on a NeXT cube on eBay? YOW!
    Unbelievable. I wish I had that much cash to just throw around... tho' I
think I'd find a charitable
    organization instead of someone on eBay to give it to if I did!

    I bought a first-generation cube alone for $75 two weeks ago. I tho't
that was a pretty fair price. I still have to buy a monitor ($100 or less
locally) for it. A mouse, keyboard and long power cable cost me $70 and are
in the mail. Looks like less than $250 total or less after everything is
properly assembled.

    Since I have a printer lying around for it it'll make a fair
print-server (I've used them before for this) for my Win '95, MacOSX Server
and other OSes I have around. I can also add a second CPU (040-25) board
internally for another $150 (with RAM) and have two machines running in it.

    One neat thing about having two boards in one machine is that you can
have two docks on one monitor, one for each machine.

    Well it's fun anyway. I'd wanted a first generation cube ever since I
had to sell my original four or five years ago. It seems neater than any of
my other obsolete hardware [far older stuff] for some reason.

    Thomas

-------------- next part --------------
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From spc at armigeron.com  Sat Sep 26 23:04:37 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
In-Reply-To: <000201bde970$088e62c0$8ab0adce@5x86jk> from "John R. Keys, Jr." at Sep 26, 98 12:06:42 pm
Message-ID: <199809270404.AAA16958@armigeron.com>


  I hate doing this, but I hate getting this type of mail even more.  THIS
is how some of us get these messages from certain software made from a
company out in Redmond, Washington.  There are options to TURN THIS OFF, but
unfortunately, you have to dig for it (from what I understand).

  -spc (Who thinks MIME is evil to begin with ... )

It was thus said that the Great John R. Keys, Jr. once stated:
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDE946.1FB85AC0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> If you every see another cube for that price let me know I'd love to have a
> first generation for my collection.  John
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Thomas Pfaff
>     Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:06 PM
>     To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>     Subject: Re: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
> 
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     Yep I agree. HTML is annoying even on platforms that support it as an
> internal functionality.
>     It _really_ doesn't make much sense in a group that discusses 10 year
> old and older computer junk.
> 
>     Hey did anyone see that somebody bid $425 on a NeXT cube on eBay? YOW!
>     Unbelievable. I wish I had that much cash to just throw around... tho' I
> think I'd find a charitable
>     organization instead of someone on eBay to give it to if I did!
> 
>     I bought a first-generation cube alone for $75 two weeks ago. I tho't
> that was a pretty fair price. I still have to buy a monitor ($100 or less
> locally) for it. A mouse, keyboard and long power cable cost me $70 and are
> in the mail. Looks like less than $250 total or less after everything is
> properly assembled.
> 
>     Since I have a printer lying around for it it'll make a fair
> print-server (I've used them before for this) for my Win '95, MacOSX Server
> and other OSes I have around. I can also add a second CPU (040-25) board
> internally for another $150 (with RAM) and have two machines running in it.
> 
>     One neat thing about having two boards in one machine is that you can
> have two docks on one monitor, one for each machine.
> 
>     Well it's fun anyway. I'd wanted a first generation cube ever since I
> had to sell my original four or five years ago. It seems neater than any of
> my other obsolete hardware [far older stuff] for some reason.
> 
>     Thomas
> 
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDE946.1FB85AC0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> 
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D290180517-26091998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
> size=3D2>If you=20
> every see another cube for that price let me know I'd love to have a =
> first=20
> generation for my collection.&nbsp; John</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
> 5px">
>     <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
>     size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
>     CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu=20
>     [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Thomas =
> 
>     Pfaff<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:06 =
> PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
>     Discussion re-collecting of classic computers<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
> html in=20
>     e-mail / NeXT stuff<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>Yep I agree. HTML =
> is=20
>     annoying even on platforms that support it as an internal=20
>     functionality.<BR>It _really_ doesn't make much sense in a group =
> that=20
>     discusses 10 year old and older computer junk.<BR><BR>Hey did anyone =
> see=20
>     that somebody bid $425 on a NeXT cube on eBay? YOW!<BR>Unbelievable. =
> I wish=20
>     I had that much cash to just throw around... tho' I think I'd find a =
> 
>     charitable<BR>organization instead of someone on eBay to give it to =
> if I=20
>     did!<BR><BR>I bought a first-generation cube alone for $75 two weeks =
> ago. I=20
>     tho't that was a pretty fair price. I still have to buy a monitor =
> ($100 or=20
>     less locally) for it. A mouse, keyboard and long power cable cost me =
> $70 and=20
>     are in the mail. Looks like less than $250 total or less after =
> everything is=20
>     properly assembled.<BR><BR>Since I have a printer lying around for =
> it it'll=20
>     make a fair print-server (I've used them before for this) for my Win =
> '95,=20
>     MacOSX Server and other OSes I have around. I can also add a =
> <B>second</B>=20
>     CPU (040-25) board internally for another $150 (with RAM) and have =
> two=20
>     machines running in it.<BR><BR>One neat thing about having two =
> boards in one=20
>     machine is that you can have two docks on one monitor, one for each=20
>     machine.<BR><BR>Well it's fun anyway. I'd wanted a first generation =
> cube=20
>     ever since I had to sell my original four or five years ago. It =
> seems neater=20
>     than any of my other obsolete hardware [far older stuff] for some=20
>     reason.<BR><BR>Thomas<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDE946.1FB85AC0--
> 



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 27 01:30:15 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809261753.A6140-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980927010145.22759B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

>   Well, I suppose a Statistically Significant Number of folk are 
> attending the VCF II...  not, however. (snif..)

Did you catch the write-up from Wired?
	http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/15244.html

I missed all of the talks today, mostly because I couldn't take myself
away from the exhibits and flea market.  I will attend the talks tomorrow,
including Gordon Bell's keynote, and, of course, the Nerd Trivia
Challenge.

ZDTV was filming the exhibits all day today, so if you get them on cable,
there should be some good footage.  In addition, a lot of pixs were taken,
so they should be appearing on a web site near you pretty soon.

In the exhibits, there were two basic themes: mass quantities and cool
stuff.  Uncle Roger and I exhibited mass quantities of portables, about 60
or so, including pretty complete collections of Kyoceras and Osbornes as
well as a bunch of odd-balls like the WorkSlate, GO, EO, at least five
prototypes, and more.

There were also mass quantities of Macs, just about every model, and all
of the important Commodore and Atari models.  A nice collection of Suns,
including the Sun-1.  A nice collection of HP's, including the 9100 (1968) 
and 9830 (1972).  An a nice collection of Heathkits, including the H-8 and
my own EC-1 (1959).

Highlights of cool stuff include two PDP-8's, an Apple 1, a module from
the Whirlwind, a nice COSMAC Elf display, a homebrew Digi-Comp I, several
MAD models, and, of course, the obligatory Altair, IMSAI, and Sol
(beautifully restored and running a game of Target).  Philip and Hans were
there with Tek workstations and German micros.

The flea market had almost as many interesting machines as the exhibit
area.  Kai dominated (with the list he already posted), but an Exidy
Sourcerer was also sold, lots of S-100 and DEC stuff, a MAD-1, and *tons*
of home computers and game machines.  I bought several books (including
titles from Scelbi, more early DEC paperbacks, Apple's "So Far" book, and
other good stuff) as well as a few portables, an early 8080 SBC, and a
nice CSA 68000 microprocessor trainer with wooden case sides (any computer
with a wood case is an instant classic, you know).

Oh, and Tony Cole was there selling his Cray bits.  He's fishing for early
micros now, so hold onto yours lest they become keychains or something.

-- Doug




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sun Sep 27 07:03:25 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
In-Reply-To: "John R. Keys, Jr." <jrkeys@concentric.net>
        "RE: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff" (Sep 26, 12:06)
References: <000201bde970$088e62c0$8ab0adce@5x86jk>
Message-ID: <9809271303.ZM9728@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 26, 12:06, John R. Keys, Jr. wrote:
> Subject: RE: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
>
> [ Attachment (multipart/alternative): 4834 bytes ]

And another flavour of *!&* :-)



-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sun Sep 27 06:59:51 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
In-Reply-To: Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com>
        "Re: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff" (Sep 26, 20:05)
References: <199809270302.TAA12971@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <9809271259.ZM9713@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 26, 20:05, Thomas Pfaff wrote:
> Subject: Re: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
>
> [ Attachment (text/enriched): 1440 bytes
>   Character set: us-ascii
>   Encoded with "quoted-printable" ]

> Yep I agree.  HTML is annoying even on platforms that support it as an
> internal functionality.
> It _really_ doesn't make much sense in a group that discusses 10 year old
> and older computer junk.

But neither does RTF :-)

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From gene at ehrich.com  Sun Sep 27 07:23:55 1998
From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Compaq correction
In-Reply-To: <199809270043.UAA14503@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <199809271222.FAA08229@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

At 08:35 PM 9/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm not sure if they're the same, or not, but on Compaq's website, the
>Portable III, and the Portable 386 were listed as two different computers. 
>I need the parts for the Portable 386.
>--       

   Jason,

   I have a working Compaq Portable 386 for sale on my web site.

>         -Jason
>(roblwill@usaor.net)
>   ICQ#-1730318
> 
------------------------------------------------------

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
gene@ehrich.com
Gene Ehrich   P.O. Box 209   Marlton NJ   08053-0209
------------------------------------------------------ 


From rcini at email.msn.com  Sun Sep 27 07:11:21 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Back e-mail files
Message-ID: <009601bdea11$4fc50ee0$0bf42399@mainoffice>

Could someone please cc: me on the list files #539 to #546. I had another
run-in with installing Windows NT5 Beta, so I lost most of my C: drive,
including my e-mail files.

Thanks in advance!

Rich Cini/WUGNET
  - ClubWin!/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Collector of "classic" computers
<=========  reply separator ==========>





From jruschme at exit109.com  Sun Sep 27 09:24:09 1998
From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Anybody got a spare NCR5380-based SCSI controller?
Message-ID: <199809271424.KAA14891@crobin.home.org>

Hi!

(I think this is old enough hardware to be on topic.)

In my off hours, I'm trying to put together a driver for NCR53C80-based
SCSI controllers for it i386 port of NetBSD. (For those who know NetBSD,
I'm doing some patches to the MI 5380 driver and writing an i386 MD
front end.)

I have it working with the very dumb Chinon controller (non-bootable,
no IRQ- polled only), but was trying to set up a test box with a card
capable of being interrupt driven and (ultimately) bootable. Unfortunately,
my ancient SUMO SCSI-AT seems to have given up the ghost as it will no
longer detect any connected drives and seems to actively screw up the
bootting of floppies from another card.

So, I was wondering if one of you might be able to loan (or cheaply sell) 
me a spare NCR53C80-based SCSI card. I guess I would ideally be looking
for another SUMO or similar card. My second choice would be a Trantor
T130 with boot ROM. I am, however, open to other suggestions.

Thanks...
<<<john>>>


From cfandt at servtech.com  Sun Sep 27 11:21:38 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Need info on a DECUS tape #VS0108TB
Message-ID: <199809271621.QAA13095@cyber2.servtech.com>

Hey gang!

I have a TK50 tape from DECUS labeled "The DECUS VMS Startup Set" with the
part number VS0108TB. It came with the uVAXII I recently got. Title sounds
quite intriguing as I will later be bringing up that machine and am a
novice at DEC goodies so far.

I cannot find, by searching, anything about it on the DECUS software site.
Nor can I find anything by searching newsgroups or the web under either the
description or the part number.

Anybody have any info on this from either their own tape library or old
archived DECUS S/W catalog listings?

Thanks for the help.
--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From mbg at world.std.com  Sun Sep 27 11:26:20 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
Message-ID: <199809271626.AA02751@world.std.com>

A home-brew digicomp I ????

Someone get those plans!

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 27 12:06:27 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: More Swapmeet stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809270940.A28896-0100000@netcom10>



  Along with the Compaq books and the Jonos Escort previously 
described, I just stumbled (literally!) over the other bit of 
vintage digital gear..  an unopened/shrink wrapped box containing an 
AT&T Voicepower VP1 module for the 6300 series.  The box is marked 
"Work Group System  Voice Power"

  I haven't opened it yet, but there was a stack of about 25 of 
them, 20 of which had been sold en masse. 

  Apparently it is a trainable voice-input command module. Along with
it (unrelated) was the AT&T version of the IBM user's guide for the
6300, with disks.  Since I have two 6300s skulking around here, I can
hook this thing up and see what happens... 


  The VCF II sounds like it will do more than was thought to further 
the aim of Thechnology Preservation....  but that's why we do this, no?

  Cheers

John 



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 26 19:36:50 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Monitor repair [Kind of]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980926175506.26248A-100000@typhoon> from "Brett" at Sep 26, 98 06:05:45 pm
Message-ID: <m0zN4pa-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Sun Sep 27 13:18:03 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Monitor repair [Kind of]
In-Reply-To: <m0zN4pa-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980927110829.28851A-100000@lafleur>



On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > I got a beater here.  A Sony GDM-1601.  It was dropped a couple of
> 
> That sounds like a workstation monitor. But with 5 BNCs (I guess R, G, B, 
> Hsync, VSync), it's not off any workstation that I know.

Fixed freq. workstation monitor, used for Sun, old SGI, etc. I have the
specs from mine:

Max res: 1280x1024@60Hz
Vfreq: 59.90Hz
Hfreq: 63.34KHz

There are adapters available to use these things with PC's and MACs too,
but I guess if it's been dropped, well...

I got mine for $45 and it's OK. A little fuzzy and one corner is starting
to fade. I spent $35 on a 13W3=>DB15 converter and am much happier using
my 17" NEC Multisync on my Sparc 5. 



From danjo at xnet.com  Sun Sep 27 13:40:41 1998
From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Monitor repair [Kind of]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980927110829.28851A-100000@lafleur>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980927133813.8038B-100000@typhoon>


On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
> > Brett wrote:
> > > I got a beater here.  A Sony GDM-1601.  It was dropped a couple of
> > 
> > That sounds like a workstation monitor. But with 5 BNCs (I guess R, G, B, 
> > Hsync, VSync), it's not off any workstation that I know.
> 
> Fixed freq. workstation monitor, used for Sun, old SGI, etc. I have the
> specs from mine:
> 
> Max res: 1280x1024@60Hz
> Vfreq: 59.90Hz
> Hfreq: 63.34KHz

That is what I needed to know!  Now to find out if it is really busted or
not 8-)

> There are adapters available to use these things with PC's and MACs too,
> but I guess if it's been dropped, well...
> 
> I got mine for $45 and it's OK. A little fuzzy and one corner is starting
> to fade. I spent $35 on a 13W3=>DB15 converter and am much happier using
> my 17" NEC Multisync on my Sparc 5.

Well 8-) send me your Sparc 5 and I will let you know 8-)

Thanks again for the info.

BC



From oajones at bright.net  Sun Sep 27 17:16:15 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
Message-ID: <360EB92F.49A6@bright.net>

Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
for both of these models?

--Alan
-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 27 18:46:36 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
In-Reply-To: <360EB92F.49A6@bright.net>
Message-ID: <v04011705b2347e863da6@[207.220.32.220]>

>Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
>then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
>you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
>TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
>for both of these models?

The silver and black model is the original one.  The beige, all plastic
case is the later model.  IIRC the later model has circuitry which prevents
it from running third party cartridges.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep 27 06:05:55 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
References: <360EB92F.49A6@bright.net>
Message-ID: <360E1C13.798FEA43@sprintmail.com>

oajones wrote:

> Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
> then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
> you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
> TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
> for both of these models?
>
> --Alan

Try this web site out, don't know if there are Schematics there but its a
really good source of information for the TI-99/4A..  I also have several
of these very popular computers in my collection.

http://99er.interspeed.net/

--Phil




From donm at cts.com  Sun Sep 27 17:56:24 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Anybody got a spare NCR5380-based SCSI controller?
In-Reply-To: <199809271424.KAA14891@crobin.home.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980927155216.5321C-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, John Ruschmeyer wrote:

Hello John, I have a Sumo that you can borrow or buy.  Are you still at 
36 Cardinal? 

Related topic:  If anyone has a 53C80 in the 44pin PLCC package that they 
are willing to part with, I am interested in getting one.  E-mail me.

						 - don

> Hi!
> 
> (I think this is old enough hardware to be on topic.)
> 
> In my off hours, I'm trying to put together a driver for NCR53C80-based
> SCSI controllers for it i386 port of NetBSD. (For those who know NetBSD,
> I'm doing some patches to the MI 5380 driver and writing an i386 MD
> front end.)
> 
> I have it working with the very dumb Chinon controller (non-bootable,
> no IRQ- polled only), but was trying to set up a test box with a card
> capable of being interrupt driven and (ultimately) bootable. Unfortunately,
> my ancient SUMO SCSI-AT seems to have given up the ghost as it will no
> longer detect any connected drives and seems to actively screw up the
> bootting of floppies from another card.
> 
> So, I was wondering if one of you might be able to loan (or cheaply sell) 
> me a spare NCR53C80-based SCSI card. I guess I would ideally be looking
> for another SUMO or similar card. My second choice would be a Trantor
> T130 with boot ROM. I am, however, open to other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks...
> <<<john>>>
> 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
    visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm





From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 27 18:06:02 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
Message-ID: <199809272306.AA20360@world.std.com>


< Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
< then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
< you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
< TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
< for both of these models?

The beige was a later model and is the same circuit as far as I know
though the roms are a bit different.  The beige will not play some non 
TI games that the black/metal trim one would.

There is an active TI99 list.  I not have the Listserv address beyond
the ti99@theriver.com  (there is a different address to subscribe).

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 27 18:06:08 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
Message-ID: <199809272306.AA20434@world.std.com>

>Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
< >then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
< >you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
< >TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
< >for both of these models?

The sequance was the TI99/4 (chicklet keys), TI99/4a enhanced display and 
real keyboard and the beige TI99/4a revised roms.
 
< The silver and black model is the original one.  The beige, all plastic
< case is the later model.  IIRC the later model has circuitry which preve
< it from running third party cartridges.

It was not a hardware change that I know of and I have several of the 
black and later beige units.  It is a firmware difference.

Allison



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 27 18:43:31 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980926211126.16685A-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809271624.A14086-0100000@netcom18>



On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Don Maslin wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
> 
> **** snip ****
>  
> > 2)  A Jonos Escort portable, running CP/M 3.0.
> > 
> >  This cute little box came from NASA, and has a Syquest drive 
> > alognside the 1/2 height HD..  the Syquest is unfortunately dead, 
> > and/or the cartridge is blank. The HD, however is *full* of Stuff, 
> > including WordStar, which is how I found out what who made this box, 

  (edit)
>  
> John, the only one that I have been exposed to had two 3.5" SSDD drives - 
> Sony, IIRC, the old ones that did not open the slide on the disk - and no 
> hard disk.  It was based on the STD bus, so hardware mods should have 
> been easy.  Yours may have a later floppy, I'd guess.  Rather nice little 
> package.
> 
> I would be interested to hear what HD controller they used.
> 
> 						 - don 


  I've not had the time yet to take the case apart. This particular 
Escort has only a 1/2 ht HD and matching Syquest removable cartridge 
drive. There is a banner screen on boot-up that lists drives A: - G:,
it calls out A: as a 'Syquest 5 Mb' and also B: the same. C: - F: 
are called out as 'Sony' and G: says '8 subsystem'. There are no 
floppies physically with the system, and BIOS issues the expected 
complaints upon trying to access these letters.

  What concerns me is the Syquest cart drive, and what data may be 
lurking thereon. BIOS says bad things about 'Data table not found' 
and also 'controller error'. The cart drive does spin up and a 
pattern of access can be heard (the same each time), but no joy as 
far as CP/M is concerned. I don't intend to format the cartridge 
until I can come up with some blank/recyclable ones that I can back 
up the HD to.

  A question for anyone who might know is: are the current Syquest 
carts still compatible with this unit? (c. 1983) If not..  has 
anyone some old ones they'd like to sell/trade?

  Also: One key is broken on the keyboard; the upper right corner 
one. What is it's function?

  Cheers

John




From donm at cts.com  Sun Sep 27 19:47:20 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809271624.A14086-0100000@netcom18>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980927172757.10858A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

> > > 2)  A Jonos Escort portable, running CP/M 3.0.
  
>   I've not had the time yet to take the case apart. This particular 
> Escort has only a 1/2 ht HD and matching Syquest removable cartridge 
> drive. There is a banner screen on boot-up that lists drives A: - G:,
> it calls out A: as a 'Syquest 5 Mb' and also B: the same. C: - F: 
> are called out as 'Sony' and G: says '8 subsystem'. There are no 
> floppies physically with the system, and BIOS issues the expected 
> complaints upon trying to access these letters.

C: - F: would suggest that they had a whole bank of floppy drives on it! 
And the G: '8 subsystem suggests another floppy controller.  None of any 
size presently installed, I take it. 
 
>   What concerns me is the Syquest cart drive, and what data may be 
> lurking thereon. BIOS says bad things about 'Data table not found' 
> and also 'controller error'. The cart drive does spin up and a 
> pattern of access can be heard (the same each time), but no joy as 
> far as CP/M is concerned. I don't intend to format the cartridge 
> until I can come up with some blank/recyclable ones that I can back 
> up the HD to.

Most likely, both HDs are off of the same HD controller as the early 
Syquests were ST-506 interface.  So, since the fixed drive boots, it is 
more likely that the Syquest is the problem rather than the controller.  
I think that a very early move should be to open it up and see what is 
connected to what, cleaning connections as you go. 

>   A question for anyone who might know is: are the current Syquest 
> carts still compatible with this unit? (c. 1983) If not..  has 
> anyone some old ones they'd like to sell/trade?

I seriously doubt it!  The cartridges are, as I'm sure you know, factory 
formatted to lay down servo tracks that the drive can follow.  You should 
not perform a low level format on the cartridge.  Check it with FDISK and 
see if it will recognize it.

Sysquest made their early drives in 5mb and 10mb capacities.  The problem 
that I always had was that I wasn't smart enough to tell the 5s from the 
10s and they were not interchangeable.  There were no obvious markings to 
differentiate them.

>   Also: One key is broken on the keyboard; the upper right 
corner > one. What is it's function?

Sorry, not a clue.
						 - don
 



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 28 00:14:39 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: ESDI, MSCP, RSX11M, TK50's, etc.
Message-ID: <v04011706b234bdb71832@[207.220.32.220]>

OK, I've been getting adventurous today.  I've been digging through a bunch
of my parts and tapes.  I discovered that I've got two ESDI controllers,
instead of the one that I knew about, one is a Emulex QD21 which I found
the manual online for, the other a "Webster WQESD" which I have the manual
for.  Figured out how to get both to work, and verified that at least one
of the three 150Mb ESDI drives I've got work.  I decided to go with the
WQESD controller since the directions are easier to follow (the ASCII files
are a bit messy on the QD21).
Plus the WQESD controller looks to be the better of the two controllers.

My configuration is as follows for reference

BA123 Cabinet

M8192-YB {11/73}
M8067-LF {RAM}
M8043 {DLV11J, used for console}
Dilog DQ606 {floppy controller, boot ROMs}		CSR=17772150
Webster WQESD {Quad-Height, boot ROMs turned off}	CSR=17760334
M7504				M7546 {TK50 controller}

NOTE: The DQ606 and WQESD both had the same CSR initially

The drive is a CDC, and I identified all three drives as 150Mb drives when
I got them, but for the life of me I can't find any kind of ID on it at the
moment.  It was formated on the WQESD controller.



Next I decided to see about getting RSX11M onto the drive.  So I started
looking through my media, including for some reason my TK50's.  Based on
the labeling they are backups of DU disks, so the system that I got with
V4.3 must have had DU disks at one point, despite the fact it was running
on a single RL02 when I got it.

I booted off one of my bootable TK50's, giving the RSX equivalent of
Standalone Backup the proper CSR for the WQESD controller, and pulled out
the manuals to try to figure out what I'm doing.  Unfortunatly when I try
to "BAD" the disk I get the following:

BAD>du0:/list
BAD -- DU0: Uncoverable error -65.
BAD>


And a "BRU" in the following:

BRU>/ini
From: mu0:
To:   du0:

BRU - Starting Tape 1 MUA0:

BRU -- *FATAL* -- Home block write error
I/O error code -65

BRU>

According to the Utilities manual error -65 needs to be looked up in the
"IAS/RSX-11 I/O Operations Reference Manual", which I'm not sure if or
where I've got.

The manual for the WQESD mentions that non-DEC drives must be compatible
with those listed below:

*RX50
*RD51
*RD52
*RC25
*RA60
*RA80
*RA81

So does this mean that it needs to look like one of these drives for the OS
to like it?  If so, I guess that explains the above error.


In order to test this theory, I was threatening to replace the ESDI
controller and drive with a RQDX3 and RD52, however, I don't seem to have a
documentation for the RQDX3, just the 1 & 2.  Are the 11 jumpers at the
bottom of the board for setting the CSR, and are they the same as on a
RQDX2?  They appear to be.

I realize that using the DQ606 and DLV11J in the place of a proper board,
such as a MXV11, to boot off of is far from ideal, unfortunalty it's
currently the best solution I've got.  I'd thought of trying to use the
PDP-11/23+ CPU I've got, but discovered it doesn't support TMSCP tape
drives as a boot device, where the DQ606 does.  Somehow I don't really feel
like trying to type in the bootstrap for a TK50 if I can help it (yes, I'm
being lazy).

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this mess?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Sun Sep 27 23:22:24 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Need info on a DECUS tape #VS0108TB
In-Reply-To: <199809271621.QAA13095@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <199809280422.OAA27184@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 12:21 PM 27-09-98 -0400, Christian Fandt wrote:

>Anybody have any info on this from either their own tape library or old
>archived DECUS S/W catalog listings?

OK, the contents are listed below.

This information (and lots of other DECUS stuff) is available from:

gopher://luck.latrobe.edu.au/11/Information%20Technology%20Services/DECUS%20
Library

Yes, it's good old gopher. You should probably replace the %20 with a space...

 16.31 VS0108     The DECUS VMS Startup Set  Version: AUGUST 1992

Author: Various

Submitted by: M. Edward Nieland

Operating System: VAX/VMS  Source Language: BLISS-32, C, DCL,
MACRO-32, PASCAL, VAX FORTRAN  Keywords: System Management - VMS,
Utilities - VMS

Abstract: This package contains some of the most popular
non-commercial programs for VMS sites.  This tape is
intended to be easy to install, though it does not use
VMSINSTAL.  Follow the directions found in the file
000_INSTRUCTIONS.TXT.

Following is a brief summary of highlights:
General Utilities
[.BOSS]         Multi logins through one terminal.
[.BULLETIN]     Electronic BULLETIN Board.
[.CMD]          Save and Restore Command Line Recall Buffers.
[.DM$SD]        Directory Manager/Set Default Utilities.
[.ERASE]        Program to clear the Screen.
[.EXE]          Executables of programs.
[.FILE]         Modify File Attributes without touching data.
[.FIND]         Utility to allow you to display information about a
                file.
[.FINGER]       Enhanced SHOW SYSTEM and more.
[.KERMIT]       Async Communications Protocol.
[.MAKE]         Port of UNIX MAKE to rebuild programs.
[.MFTU]         Mail File Transfer Utility.
[.MODIFY]       MODIFY a string in all wildcarded files.
[.MOST]         Port of UNIX More, TYPE with bells and
                whistles.
[.SEND ]        Broadcast a message to another terminal.
[.SETDEF]       Set Default Utility.
[.SPELL]        A spelling checker.
[.STATUS]       An enhanced SHOW SYSTEM.
[.SWING]        Change Directories using Graph of directory
                tree.
[.TERM_LOCK]    Lock the terminal using the account
                password.
[.TPUVI]        TPU emulation of the VI editor.
[.UUENC]        UUENCODE and UUDECODE for VMS.
[.VFE]          VAX File Editor, edit files byte by byte.
[.VMSGCC]       GNU CC Compiler and C++ Compiler for VMS
                and BISON (YACC-like).
[.XMODEM-1]     A XMODEM communication protocol package.
[.XMODEM-2]     A XMODEM communication protocol package.
[.YMODEM]       A YMODEM communication protocol package.
[.ZMODEM]       A ZMODEM communication protocol package.
[.ZOO]          Create and use compressed file archives.

System Manager Utilities
[.BECOME]       BECOME another user.
[.MAILUAF]      Manage the MAIL authorization File.
[.PROFILE]      SMG Menu based utility to set up accounts.
[.SNAP]         SNAP Shot of system, do things with it.
[.SUPSER052]    Supervisor Series, a Terminal Watcher and
                Terminal Logger.
[.VERB]         Decompile DCL tables to make changes.
[.WATCH]        WATCH another terminal.
[.WATCHER]      An idle terminal killer.
[.ZDEC]  Zero Device Error Counters of SHOW ERROR.

Changes and Improvements: Updated programs and new material.

Complete sources not included.

Media (Service Charge Code): 2400' Magnetic Tapes (PB)  Format:
VMS/BACKUP, 2400' Magnetic Tape (SB)  Format: VMS/BACKUP, TK50 Tape
Cartridge (TB)  Format: VMS/BACKUP
.


 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 28 01:31:33 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
In-Reply-To: <199809271626.AA02751@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980928002449.4289B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Megan wrote:

> A home-brew digicomp I ????
> 
> Someone get those plans!

Doug Coward made the Digi-Comp I clone, as far as I know, by downloading
scans from a web page:
	http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/
blowing them up, and then cutting the pieces from wood.  It was very well
done.

The final day of VCF was great!  I overslept, so I wandered in just as
Gorden Bell's talk was set to begin.  But before I could make it upstairs
to the talk, I noticed that the vendors had brought fresh meat!  By
getting there three hours late, I missed some prime stuff, like the SWTP
6800 box (damn), but even arriving that late, I was able to nab a Heathkit
H-8 chassis, a Lisa mouse (which I traded away later the same day), and
some good books.  I'm not much of a calculator collector, but I also got
an HP 91 and the only calculator I've really ever desired, the Sharp EL-8.

I also traded for a couple of things -- an Ampro Bookshelf Computer and a
Linus Write-Top (which I've been trying to track-down for months to
complete my early pen-based computer collection).

So, this meant I arrived an hour late for Bell's one-hour talk.  Luckily,
he overran his allotted time by about 20 minutes, so I caught the tail-end
of a PDP-6 discussion.  In the Q&A, I asked him whether he planned to
write a PDP-1 simulator, and he answered that Bob Supnik was doing one,
but I got the impression that they hadn't been able to overcome the "media
problem" of transfering? finding? restoring? some of the original
software.  I had previously been under the impression that there were
about 200 PDP-1's built, but Bell gave a number of 40 (20 each at two
installations).  And then I got his autograph :-)

Speaking of autographs, Lee Felsenstein stopped by and autographed the
case of the Sol 20 I mentioned yesterday.  No kidding.

The Nerd Trivia Challenge was all it was hyped up to be.  To give you an
idea of the caliper of contestants, Kip Crosby (of CHAC) was one of them,
and he didn't win.  The only questions that stumped the panel were some
semi-obscure questions about portable computers and the one about the
first Apple ]['s serial number.

Finally, prizes were awarded (including the IMSAI, which went to a visitor
from Nevada, and a few original Bell Labs' CARDIACs which went to some
exhibitors), and then we packed up and went home.

Congrats to Sam for pulling this off.  AFAIK, it's the only event like it
in the world, and Silicon Valley is a great venue for the show.  It's the
next best thing to a time machine :-)  See you there next year!

-- Doug



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Mon Sep 28 01:42:52 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980928002449.4289B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980927234208.8009A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Anybody see any Ohio Scientific hardware? (Still looking for a C8)

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Megan wrote:
> 
> > A home-brew digicomp I ????
> > 
> > Someone get those plans!
> 
> Doug Coward made the Digi-Comp I clone, as far as I know, by downloading
> scans from a web page:
> 	http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/
> blowing them up, and then cutting the pieces from wood.  It was very well
> done.
> 
> The final day of VCF was great!  I overslept, so I wandered in just as
> Gorden Bell's talk was set to begin.  But before I could make it upstairs
> to the talk, I noticed that the vendors had brought fresh meat!  By
> getting there three hours late, I missed some prime stuff, like the SWTP
> 6800 box (damn), but even arriving that late, I was able to nab a Heathkit
> H-8 chassis, a Lisa mouse (which I traded away later the same day), and
> some good books.  I'm not much of a calculator collector, but I also got
> an HP 91 and the only calculator I've really ever desired, the Sharp EL-8.
> 
> I also traded for a couple of things -- an Ampro Bookshelf Computer and a
> Linus Write-Top (which I've been trying to track-down for months to
> complete my early pen-based computer collection).
> 
> So, this meant I arrived an hour late for Bell's one-hour talk.  Luckily,
> he overran his allotted time by about 20 minutes, so I caught the tail-end
> of a PDP-6 discussion.  In the Q&A, I asked him whether he planned to
> write a PDP-1 simulator, and he answered that Bob Supnik was doing one,
> but I got the impression that they hadn't been able to overcome the "media
> problem" of transfering? finding? restoring? some of the original
> software.  I had previously been under the impression that there were
> about 200 PDP-1's built, but Bell gave a number of 40 (20 each at two
> installations).  And then I got his autograph :-)
> 
> Speaking of autographs, Lee Felsenstein stopped by and autographed the
> case of the Sol 20 I mentioned yesterday.  No kidding.
> 
> The Nerd Trivia Challenge was all it was hyped up to be.  To give you an
> idea of the caliper of contestants, Kip Crosby (of CHAC) was one of them,
> and he didn't win.  The only questions that stumped the panel were some
> semi-obscure questions about portable computers and the one about the
> first Apple ]['s serial number.
> 
> Finally, prizes were awarded (including the IMSAI, which went to a visitor
> from Nevada, and a few original Bell Labs' CARDIACs which went to some
> exhibitors), and then we packed up and went home.
> 
> Congrats to Sam for pulling this off.  AFAIK, it's the only event like it
> in the world, and Silicon Valley is a great venue for the show.  It's the
> next best thing to a time machine :-)  See you there next year!
> 
> -- Doug
> 
> 



From marvin at rain.org  Mon Sep 28 02:31:29 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
References: <Pine.3.89.9809261753.A6140-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <360F3B51.5EDF523B@rain.org>

John Lawson wrote:
> 

> 2)  A Jonos Escort portable, running CP/M 3.0.
> 
>   In advance of my doing the usual WebSearch on it..  any comments
> or info re: this box would be fun to hear.

Hmmm, I have two Jonos computers but unfortunately no docs.  We may have to
get together here to see what we can find out!  I do have a number of floppy
disks for the unit, but mine do not have the HD.


From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Mon Sep 28 04:02:42 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: html in e-mail / NeXT stuff
Message-ID: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980928090242Z-153@exch001.softwright.co.uk>

I don't suppose exchange has any sort of built-in SMTP autoresponder (or
anyone know of an autoresponder address anywhere?)  - be nice to be able
to send emails out to an SMTP-only site and get a reply back just so's I
can check that I *don't* have any stupid formatting in my outgoing
mail...

it bugs the hell out of me that I'm forced to use exchange here at work;
I'd rather not use all the 'extensions' that exchange gives you - all of
them being unnecessary - but the software's very good at not making it
clear what a sent message is going to look like at the other end of the
wire... (give me standard SMTP and uuencode any day! :)

(apologies in advance if this comes out with strange indentation,
formatting and useless attachments... at least I don't think I'll have
squeezed any HTML in there... :*)

oh well, rant mode off... sorry for the off-topic!!

Jules
>


From oajones at bright.net  Mon Sep 28 04:21:51 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: FS: TRS-80 Color Computer 4K (C) 1980
Message-ID: <360F552F.5CA8@bright.net>

I have for sale a TRS-80 Color Computer with 4k of memory (Catalog
#26-3001).  This is the first version of the Color Computer. It is in
original condition and works great. I already have one in my collection
so I will let this one go. The asking price is $40 plus shipping and
handling. If anyone is interested please send me email.

--Alan 
-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 28 07:14:16 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: IBM 1130
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980928071416.1da7bdca@intellistar.net>

I contacted a friend of mine that that is a salesman for IBM and asked him
if he knew where any IBM 1130s might be found.  Here's his reply:

>
>Joe,
>Sorry it took so long to reply....I was in Vegas and didn't get back until
>yesterday.   It was the annual World Gaming Congress meeting...the largest
>gaming convention  in the industry.
>
>Well...I got to admint....I've never even heard of an 1130!!  I had to do
>some research to find out what it was!  from what I can decuce..this thing
>dates back to the mid 60's.!!  Sorry but the only place I can think he might
>find one is a museum!

   Joe



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Mon Sep 28 06:46:45 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: BBS Gateway
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980928041956.24895A-100000@lafleur>

Uh-oh, 4:00am inspiration. I just got out of bed to ask about this:

Is there an existing BBS system that provides a BBS<==>Internet mail
gateway? So that a BBS user could, say, subscribe to a mailing list like
this one? The reason I ask is that I tried to get a shell account with a
local ISP a few months ago so I could use internet services on my Atari
1200XL. None of the local providers offered that service at all, and
seemed shocked that someone was even asking for one. But a shell prompt
doesn't exactly have the romance of a classic BBS and I am now set on
writing one that can do internet mail and browse text html docs. Even
more ambitious would be the ability to http/ftp binaries using xmodem/etc.
 
But first, your input would be appreciated:

Does such a system exist already? Is the source available? For what
platforms?

Is there anyone who would be interested in using such a product/service? I
guess what I'm asking is if there are others who would like to log on to a
"classic" BBS using a "classic" computer but still have access to the
wealth of information and software on the internet...

Any thoughts on platform/environment? Language? My first impulse is Linux,
written in C. But I also do Windows, and some other languages too.

Anyone want to collaborate on something like this? My time is rarely my
own, so this would take me a long, long time to do myself. But it seems
like it'd be an interesting project, so I don't mind at all.

Thanks for listening to a groggy man's ranting. I'm going back to bed
now...



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 28 08:08:29 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Email address changes
In-Reply-To: <199809270139.VAA02724@smtp.interlog.com>
References: <360CC19D.ECF7FF79@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980928080829.41e75db6@intellistar.net>

At 09:36 PM 9/26/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On 26 Sep 98 at 6:27, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
>> Lawrence Walker wrote:
>> 
>> > On 25 Sep 98 at 17:27, Tom Owad wrote:
>> >
>> > > >  I hope you don't send me any mail or post any messages from your
>> > > >earthlink address.  I've gotten tons of SPAM from earthlink and
they're a
>> > > >permanent part of my SPAM filters now.
>> > >
>> > > I find this all rather disturbing.  What am I supposed to do if I
want to
>> > > get in contact with one of you guys who is blocking email from
earthlink?
>> > >  Surely not use Hotmail or my AOL account!
>> > >
>> > > Tom Owad
>> 
>> Guess I can't send any email to you either I'm on Sprint/Earthlink also..
>> Phil Clayton
>> 
> My e-mail program didn't properly attribute the original reply to Allison.
>
>I just checked your e-mail headers. It has @sprintmail on the from 
>line. I do see earthlink in the routing tho. Like Allison the multitude of
spam 
>I was getting had earthlink as the domain so that's what I'm filtering.
> If Sprint hooked up with Earthlink that's another mistake they've made
>beside only accepting Win 95 users. If it weren't for that I might have
>signed on with them since they give unlimited for the same amount I'm
>paying my ISP for 120 hours. I use Sprint for my long-distance calls and
they 
>have some bonuses for that combo,  but with my present ISP I also have shell 
>usage and there's no way in hell I'm going to switch to Win 9x  because of
the 
>mistake of some marketing weenie who believes all the Micro Sloth hype. 
>
>BTW what's happening with your community and hurricane George ? I had heard 
>everybody was being forced to evacuate.
>
>ciao		larry
>
>lwalker@interlog.com
>

  Hi Larry,

  Sprint does (or did) support Win 3.1.  I used them for a while but
dropped them due *VERY* poor service.  I think I still have their W 3.1
installation disk.  You're right about Phil's E-mail showing that it comes
from Sprint, I looked at it too.  In addition, Phil and I have E-mailed
privately a number of times with no problems and I have Earthlink blocked.

  For you guys that are worried because you use Earthlink or Hotamil all I
can say is to raise hell with them for permitting SPAMMING or else change
your ISP.

   I'm in Orlando Florida.  There's no significant damage here. LOTs of
rain though.

   Joe



From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 28 08:58:44 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Email address changes
Message-ID: <199809281358.AA19923@world.std.com>

<   For you guys that are worried because you use Earthlink or Hotamil all
< can say is to raise hell with them for permitting SPAMMING or else chang
< your ISP.

Earthlink is actually one that has fought against fradulent spamming. Most
of the earthlink addresses I've gotten spam from didn't originate from 
them but were fraudulent addresses.  For filter purposes I used earthlink 
is they were most common.  Hotmail has been less a problem so I have a few 
specific filters and can generally get mail from there YET.

<    I'm in Orlando Florida.  There's no significant damage here. LOTs of
< rain though.

Glad to hear your ok but that hurricane is still dangerous.

Allison



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Mon Sep 28 09:14:44 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
Message-ID: <19980928.092051.71.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:31:33 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com>
writes:
>an HP 91 and the only calculator I've really ever desired, the Sharp 
>EL-8.

Oooooh, you lucky, lucky dog!  I had an EL-8, which was destroyed in the 
earthquake in L.A. a few years ago.  Is the bottom case half black or 
grey-blue color?  Mine was black.

Jeff

>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From cfandt at servtech.com  Mon Sep 28 09:36:46 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980928071416.1da7bdca@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <199809281437.OAA28492@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 07:14 28-09-98 +0000, Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>I contacted a friend of mine that that is a salesman for IBM and asked him
>if he knew where any IBM 1130s might be found.  Here's his reply:
>
>>
>>Joe,
>>Sorry it took so long to reply....I was in Vegas and didn't get back until
>>yesterday.   It was the annual World Gaming Congress meeting...the largest
>>gaming convention  in the industry.
>>
>>Well...I got to admint....I've never even heard of an 1130!!  I had to do
>>some research to find out what it was!  from what I can decuce..this thing
>>dates back to the mid 60's.!!  Sorry but the only place I can think he might
>>find one is a museum!
>
>   Joe
> 

Joe and I had passed a private msg or two regarding the IBM 1130, hence his
checking with an IBM friend as to 1130 locations. This latest msg Joe
posted through the list which is a good thing he did. 

It brings up a point I probably have spoken about previously here. It is to
try to find and preserve history of any obsolete, and in this case possibly
extinct, computers or related objects. The fellow Joe contacted is probably
not an "old timer" IBM salesman and probably would not know about machines
that could have even predated his graduation from high school! Joe could
maybe confirm this. There are retired or still-working old timers out there
who can be a wellspring of important historical information. This connects
to the point of this message.

The point is that if we know of, work with, have in the family, run into on
the street, share a jail cell with or any other way discover an old time
computer industry person who could have some 'lost' history to offer, make
an attempt to let them know you are interested in the history of computing
and would like them to help you preserve what he/she knows or otherwise
owns about the long obsolete hardware/software that that person had a hand
in. If you are shy about approaching that person maybe another fellow
collector could help you break the ice. Or, simply screw up the gumption
and introduce yourself and hope for the best. Quite often when a person
sees you are sincere about learning what he/she has once had been working
with and hears your request to learn what he/she has to offer as far as
preserving the history of something they once had a hand in they will be
open to you.


Try not to leave out the machines that are only 10 years old or even
younger in spite of concentrating on real 'antiques' (35 years old like the
IBM 1130 for example). And there should be no regard to whether they are
just good ol' home-use machines like the Ataris, Commodores, Sinclairs or
big iron antiques like S/360's or S/370's, etc. You see, now is the time to
learn and archive as much detail as possible. In 10, 20, 50 years, the
folks who designed, built, serviced or sold these machines will be gone.
Ourselves, if we're still alive, and future collectors will have a rich
collection of information to draw from whenever we find an Atari 400 or
something in a garage sale in 2038.

In the antique radio collecting hobby for example, as it is with other such
interests, a lot of needed technical information or simply interesting
anecdotal information and artifacts have been lost forever because they
were never kept or recorded. Computer collecting is a rather recent
technical collecting hobby and we have a chance to 'do it right' by
capturing all information and artifacts possible before they are
permanently lost. 

There were recent discussions in the list regarding source code to some
games and/or applications that were discarded because the author did not
think anybody would be interested. Last week there was a discussion
regarding one of the list members being able to rescue a prototype computer
from the estate of one of the mid-70's personal computer pioneers. What
else was lost lately? 

Sam's VCF has been performing a really beneficial function in historical
preservation by having pioneer speakers and displays on old computer
technology at the Festival. Good start, Sam. Maybe next year I could come
to it.

<Soapbox Mode Off now>  Sorry for the somewhat rambling statements, but
this has been something that has been in my interest for years now as some
of you know. Maybe it will be a timely reminder for us to continue to go
out and find and preserve the history of our hobby(ies) for others to share
now and in the distant future.

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 28 10:54:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: VCF Review
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Hi People.

I don't have a whole lot of time right now to re-cap VCF 2.0 right now
(there's still post-event work to be done) but last week I promised to
post the URL to the site that contains all the data on the Ray Holt
microprocessor chipset and didn't.  Sorry about that, but I was running
around like mad trying to get things done and forgot.

Anyway, go to http://www.microcomputerhistory.com and find a ton of
information about this.  You can download Ray's original article written
about the set in around 1971 (but which the gubment refused to clear for
publication) that describes the architecture and programming.  It's in
Word 8.0 format because it includes graphics.  I apologize for this but
we're working on a straight ASCII version so please be patient.

You'll also be able to view the chip masks on line, and there are links to
a bunch of resources.

Ray was interviewed by several press organizations (ZDTV, Public Radio
International to name a few) so if you keep your eyes open you might see
these interviews.

ZDTV will be showing clips from VCF 2.0 in the next few weeks as will
CNET.  I'll try to find out the actual schedule when they will run.  Also,
"Beyond Computers" on PRI will be airing a segment in the next few weeks
but it will be available as streaming audio off the web.

If the number of interviews Jim Willing was given is any indication, he'll
soon become the spokesman for the nerd generation.  You'll probably see
him on both CNET and ZDTV as well as in print and on radio.  Let's hope
all this fame doesn't go to this head :)

Be back later with some additional post-event notes.

It was a blast!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 28 14:13:53 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Anyone got docs for the DTE20 interface?
Message-ID: <13391574155.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

It interfaces the console PDP-11 to a KL-10.  ANyone have documentation for it?
-------


From marvin at rain.org  Mon Sep 28 14:35:20 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
References: <13391574155.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org>

This morning, a friend of mine brought over a pickup truck load of Apple
computers, monitors, printers, and dead disk drives.

First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early Apple
][e computers, or is there any significance to it?

Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?

Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
look for when I start checking out the drives?

Thanks in advance!


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep 28 14:52:33 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Color Computer 4K (C) 1980
Message-ID: <199809282015.QAA15912@gate.usaor.net>

I want to ask a question.  I bought the same CoCo (I) at a hamfest for $5,
and it worked great, and came with joysticks, and BASIC books.  Is this
computer actually worth $40?  If so then I REALLY got a good deal.	
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: oajones <oajones@bright.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: FS: TRS-80 Color Computer 4K (C) 1980
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 5:21 AM
> 
> I have for sale a TRS-80 Color Computer with 4k of memory (Catalog
> #26-3001).  This is the first version of the Color Computer. It is in
> original condition and works great. I already have one in my collection
> so I will let this one go. The asking price is $40 plus shipping and
> handling. If anyone is interested please send me email.
> 
> --Alan 
> -- 
> Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
> Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
> Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
> BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
> http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From pb0aia at iaehv.nl  Mon Sep 28 15:36:16 1998
From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Mystery board
  
Message-ID: <199809282036.WAA10788@IAEhv.nl>

Here's a nice puzzle for you.

A friend just gave me an old computer board that I have never seen before.
It seems to be a SCT-100 and it is from 1978. It is connected to a parallel
keyboard and mounted in a home made cabinet. It has a Mostek processor.
There are 7 2102's on it. It looks like it is a S-100 board. It even has a
voltage regulator on a heat sink.

I don't know wether this is a computer or a terminal. I don't see any 
obvious connections for a storage device, but that may not have been there 
in this design. I put up a few pictures at

http://vaxarchive.ml.org/compmus/kees/watisdit.html

Does anybody know what it is?

Kees

-- 

Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered



From rexstout at uswest.net  Mon Sep 28 16:45:35 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:54 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org>
References: <13391574155.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300b235b32acf72@[207.225.84.79]>

>Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
>these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
>used for other Apple computers?
I've got one of those. Pretty nice looking monitor. One would have to
assume that they were orginally meant for the Apple III, but it's never
smart to assume anything with old computers... It's no an Apple III-only
type of thing, just a normal composite monitor. I had mine hooked up to a
IIgs for while(finally got a 5.25" drive for it. Anyone know where to get
that DB-15->DB-15 video cable for the Apple RGB monitor?).

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   orham@qth.net   list admin                KD7BCY         |
|   ham-mac@qth.net                        Portland, OR      |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Mon Sep 28 15:52:10 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: MicroChess for the KIM-1
Message-ID: <199809282052.NAA18792@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Mon Sep 28 15:57:38 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Mystery board  
In-Reply-To: <199809282036.WAA10788@IAEhv.nl>
Message-ID: <199809282051.NAA01776@mxu4.u.washington.edu>

It is a 16 x 64 character TV Typewriter. The coax at the top should
generate Composite video out. Typically the display ram was memory mapped
in the S100 space. It looks like you're may have been converted to be a
dumb terminal of some sort. 

--Chuck

At 10:36 PM 9/28/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Here's a nice puzzle for you.
>Does anybody know what it is?




From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 28 15:52:27 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Mystery board  
In-Reply-To: <199809282036.WAA10788@IAEhv.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980928154620.14065C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Kees Stravers wrote:

> A friend just gave me an old computer board that I have never seen before.
> It seems to be a SCT-100 and it is from 1978. It is connected to a parallel
> keyboard and mounted in a home made cabinet. It has a Mostek processor.
> There are 7 2102's on it. It looks like it is a S-100 board. It even has a
> voltage regulator on a heat sink.

I've never heard of it, but it's definitely a computer.  The Mostek 3870
was the microprocessor version of the Fairchild F8.  I've been looking for
F8-based micros off-and-on, but never ran into one. 

-- Doug



From dpeschel at u.washington.edu  Mon Sep 28 16:58:12 1998
From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 28, 98 12:35:20 pm
Message-ID: <199809282158.OAA08288@saul7.u.washington.edu>

> First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
> different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
> that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early Apple
> ][e computers, or is there any significance to it?

I don't know about this.

> Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
> these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
> used for other Apple computers?

We used one on our Apple ][+.  One of the machines at the VCF was set up the
same way, I think.

> Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
> look for when I start checking out the drives?

Make sure the cables are aligned, otherwise you will fry a diode (it could be
another component -- I think it's a rectifier).  This applies to the Disk ][ --
I don't know about other drives.

-- Derek


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 28 13:29:51 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809271624.A14086-0100000@netcom18> from "John Lawson" at Sep 27, 98 04:43:31 pm
Message-ID: <m0zNi3W-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ai705 at osfn.org  Mon Sep 28 17:00:05 1998
From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <l03130300b235b32acf72@[207.225.84.79]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.980928173759.9162A-100000@osfn.org>


> >Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
> >these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
> >used for other Apple computers?

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, John Rollins wrote in response to the above:

> I've got one of those. Pretty nice looking monitor. One would have to
> assume that they were orginally meant for the Apple III, but it's never
> smart to assume anything with old computers... It's no an Apple III-only
> type of thing, just a normal composite monitor.

It is a normal green screen composite monitor that can be hooked up to 
most composite outputs. There was a special all plastic stand, sort of 
like a tiny step stool or one of those exercise steps, that straddles an 
Apple II and is the proper width for the III monitor. An Apple III 
computer has a blocky aluminum case and the monitor sits directly on top.
I would guess they had a lot of theose Apple III monitors after the 
Apple III fiasco and the little stand allowed them to fob them off with 
Apple IIe purchases.

> that DB-15->DB-15 video cable for the Apple RGB monitor?).

Standard pass through cable. A Belkin brand Macintosh monitor cable, 
available at any Comp USA, will do fine. Although the cable will work for 
either monitor, Mac and Apple IIgs RGB monitors cannot be used 
interchangably on either machine.


                                             -- Stephen Dauphin



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Mon Sep 28 17:20:33 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <m0zNi3W-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809281554.A24463-0100000@netcom20>



On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> What letter does the hard disk appear as?

  A:

> that standard, and a lot of early 3.5" drives were Sony.
> 
> G: sounds like an external 8" drive. Is there anywhere such a drive could 
> be connected?
> 

  On the rear apron, there are ports for RS232, IEEE488, a video 
RCA, and a multi-pin Berg 30 - 50 pins marked as ' 8" subsystem '..  
I am presuming that the external floppies go there as well. 
I really must get this thing apart and see what's what....

  Looking now for early-80s vintage syquest carts..  anyone have any 
lying about??  

> -tony
> 
> 

  Cheers

John





From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 28 17:29:00 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Tandon Laptop
Message-ID: <19980928222901.9496.qmail@hotmail.com>


I got a couple of Tandon laptops, named 'NB/386sx'. Anyone have any
experience with these? Does anyone know if they need a working
CMOS battery to boot off the AC adaptor? The AC adaptor has a weird
PS/2-like connector, and the laptop doesn't really turn on-the light
just blinks...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From marvin at rain.org  Mon Sep 28 17:31:04 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: VCF Comments
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org>

As usual, the VCF was a lot of fun and a great chance to put faces with many
of the names that appear on this list.  Besides the neat collection of older
working computers on display, it seemed like most of the fun took place in
the swap area.  

Couple of things there that *I* thought were worth noting.  Kai brought some
disk drives for the Bell & Howell Black Apple, and were the first I had
seen.  On Sunday, another vendor appeared with one of the Black Apples he
was selling for $200 (didn't sell.)  This same vendor brought quite a few
vintage computers that included a Commodore Teachers Pet w/ the calculator
keyboard, an H8 w/ no boards except the motherboard, a Heathkit H100, SWTP
6800, and a variety of other computers of similar vintage.  Another vendor
brought a Micromat robot that sold for somewhere around $200 that included
the robot and computers to interface it to.  His comment was that this was
mainly a social occasion, and to some extent I have to agree, a social
occasion well worth attending!!!  There were quite a few of the people there
from last year, and from everyone I talked to, sales were good.  I wish I
had an extra $1k or so to spend on the stuff I saw there!!!  But there is
always next year to look forward to and to plan on attending!

In the display area, The Computer Museum had a number of things including
the Apple I.  When I was talking to Carol Welsh of the Computer Museum, she
indicated that someone had brought an Apple I to the VCF and sold it to
someone else for $2000.  At the point that I talked with her, the other
person with her was trying to track down the parties involved.

Someone made the comment that there were two varieties of the Osbourne I,
and I gather that the difference was in the case (not talking about the
Executive, only the Osbourne I.)  Anyone have any input on this?  When I
checked mine, they were both like the one on display which was supposed to
be the older one but I'm not sure I've ever seen a One that looked any
different.

As with Doug, I didn't get a chance to hear the talks (except Gordon Bell)
and I am looking forward to being able to buy the audio tapes when Sam gets
them finished.

The tour of The Computer Museum at Moffet Field was incredible.  The
collection was what they called "Visible Storage" and they had about 2% of
their collection where people could take a look.  Generally speaking,
photographing the exhibits is prohibited but they relaxed that policy for
this tour with the stipulation that any photos taken were strictly for
private use.

Well, all for now, and I'm sure the others on this list who attended will
have lots to say!


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 28 18:38:30 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: BBS Gateway
Message-ID: <199809282238.PAA17296@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Is there an existing BBS system that provides a BBS<==>Internet mail
>gateway? So that a BBS user could, say, subscribe to a mailing list like
>this one?

Caesarville Online, my BBS, supports this (at least it will, as soon as I 
get internet email in a couple of weeks).  I'm running a NovaServer BBS 
on a Mac IIsi 17/700.

>Does such a system exist already? Is the source available? For what
>platforms?

NovaServer, by Resnova, has been discontinued unfortunately (read all 
about it at <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/novaserver.html>).  It's 
currently unclear as to who owns it, but the source code is most 
definately not available - yet.

NovaServer runs only on Macintosh.  Custom client software is available 
for Mac and Windows.  Anybody can log on using Ripterm or terminal 
emulation.  HTML isn't supported in terminal emulation, but email and 
newsgroups are.

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Mon Sep 28 06:10:40 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
In-Reply-To: <360EB92F.49A6@bright.net>
Message-ID: <000401bdead0$a0c4ef80$87afadce@5x86jk>

yes the beige was a later model and there is also a TI99/8 a few prototypes
got out to the public. John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of oajones
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 5:16 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
>
>
> Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
> then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
> you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
> TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
> for both of these models?
>
> --Alan
> --
> Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
> Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
> Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
> BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
> http://www.bright.net/~oajones
>



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Mon Sep 28 06:25:38 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Osborne 01's
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org>
Message-ID: <360F7232.18736156@sprintmail.com>



Marvin wrote:

> Someone made the comment that there were two varieties of the Osbourne I,
> and I gather that the difference was in the case (not talking about the
> Executive, only the Osbourne I.)  Anyone have any input on this?  When I
> checked mine, they were both like the one on display which was supposed to
> be the older one but I'm not sure I've ever seen a One that looked any
> different.

BTW: The spelling is Osborne.Here is a picture on Tom Copper's Web site of the
First production of the Osborne 01.

http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/osborne.htm

Here is a picture of the 2nd version of the Osborne 01.

http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/Osborne2.htm

The original 01 had a rather flimsy case, and was replaced by a more durable
case.
As far as I know the insides were identical..
The 2nd version  is Gray & Blue color, and the older one is Tan in color..

I have 2 Osbornes (2nd version)  in my collection , One has a Green phosphor
screen, the other White.. These two computers are by far my most favorite..

--Phil




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Mon Sep 28 06:31:01 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Osborne 01
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org>
Message-ID: <360F7375.B27F9DA4@sprintmail.com>

Sorry the reference I made to Tom Copper's web site is incorrect,  it's Tom
Carlsons "Obsolete Computer Museum"  that I used the pictures from..

Execellent Web Site Tom, Thanks for your contribution to knowledge of classic
computers..

--Phil
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a picture on Tom Copper's Web site of the
First production of the Osborne 01.

http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/osborne.htm

Here is a picture of the 2nd version of the Osborne 01.

http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/Osborne2.htm

The original 01 had a rather flimsy case, and was replaced by a more durable
case.
As far as I know the insides were identical..
The 2nd version  is Gray & Blue color, and the older one is Tan in color..





From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 28 14:36:46 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org>
Message-ID: <199809282339.TAA23537@smtp.interlog.com>

On 28 Sep 98 at 12:35, Marvin wrote:

> This morning, a friend of mine brought over a pickup truck load of Apple
> computers, monitors, printers, and dead disk drives.
> 
> First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
> different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
> that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early Apple
> ][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
> 
> Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
> these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
> used for other Apple computers?
> 
> Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
> look for when I start checking out the drives?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
 
Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the icon is bigger on the unenhanced 
lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle displays Apple ll-e
the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their regular lle however and I
don't know if this is true with the upgrades. IIRC the A3 monitor came out 
before the A3 and can be used with any ll. 
 Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings, so using
an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without setting them 
up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better info on this.
 Any extra Super Serial cards ?

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 28 14:36:45 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: BBS Gateway
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980928041956.24895A-100000@lafleur>
Message-ID: <199809282339.TAA23553@smtp.interlog.com>

On 28 Sep 98 at 4:46, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:

> Uh-oh, 4:00am inspiration. I just got out of bed to ask about this:
> 
> Is there an existing BBS system that provides a BBS<==>Internet mail
> gateway? So that a BBS user could, say, subscribe to a mailing list like
> this one? The reason I ask is that I tried to get a shell account with a
> local ISP a few months ago so I could use internet services on my Atari
> 1200XL. None of the local providers offered that service at all, and
> seemed shocked that someone was even asking for one. But a shell prompt
> doesn't exactly have the romance of a classic BBS and I am now set on
> writing one that can do internet mail and browse text html docs. Even
> more ambitious would be the ability to http/ftp binaries using xmodem/etc.
>  
> But first, your input would be appreciated:
> 
> Does such a system exist already? Is the source available? For what
> platforms?
> 
> Is there anyone who would be interested in using such a product/service? I
> guess what I'm asking is if there are others who would like to log on to a
> "classic" BBS using a "classic" computer but still have access to the
> wealth of information and software on the internet...
> 
> Any thoughts on platform/environment? Language? My first impulse is Linux,
> written in C. But I also do Windows, and some other languages too.
> 
> Anyone want to collaborate on something like this? My time is rarely my
> own, so this would take me a long, long time to do myself. But it seems
> like it'd be an interesting project, so I don't mind at all.
> 
> Thanks for listening to a groggy man's ranting. I'm going back to bed
> now...
> 
 You might want to check out alt.bbs.internet where this is covered.
There's an existing program PPPBBS which does something like this.
I know it will work under Dos as well as WinDose . There are also many 
programs to telenet BBS's such as COM-T. There is a local BBS who used to have 
an I-Net feed of some sort who is running his BBS on an Atari 130XE  Don't have 
his info handy but I'll dig it up if you want. If you want more info I can send 
you some stuff on PPPBBS and bbs int.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 28 17:07:47 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 28, 98 12:35:20 pm
Message-ID: <m0zNlSQ-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 28 18:42:10 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Swapmeet finds
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809281554.A24463-0100000@netcom20> from "John Lawson" at Sep 28, 98 03:20:33 pm
Message-ID: <m0zNmvm-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 28 18:53:30 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
Message-ID: <19980928235331.5434.qmail@hotmail.com>






>
>> First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
>> different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger 
that
>> that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early 
Apple
What about the little 'enhanced' LED?
>
>According to the technical manual, the easiest way to tell the original 
>//e from the enhanced //e is to power it up with a monitor connected
>
>An original //e displays 'Apple ][' while an enchanced one display 
>'Apple //e'. There is also an extended keybaord versions with a 
built-in 
>numeric keypad, but spotting that one is trivial.
>
>There is no mention in this manual of a difference in the 'Apple' key.
>
>> Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I 
should
>> look for when I start checking out the drives?
>
>
>Mechanical problems. I've never had an electronic failure on a Disk ][ 
>and I don't see why the //e drives would be any different.
>
>Mostly : Head alighment (Apple's trick of missing out the track0 sensor 
>saved a few parts but is hard on the positioner), drive belt (on 
>belt-driven drives, like the Disk ][, dirty heads.
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Mon Sep 28 19:47:00 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
Message-ID: <ea5079ea.36102e04@aol.com>

re: apple drives
any apple floppy drive can be used as drive 1 or 2; there is no difference.
undisks are daisy chainable and disk ][s plug into a controller card which has
two 20pin connections labled drive 1 and 2. the slot assignment was pretty
much understood as slot 6 for disk drives. btw. i have several SSCs...

david

In a message dated 98-09-28 20:03:28 EDT, you write:

>  Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings, so 
> using
>  an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without setting
them 
> 
>  up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better info on this.
>   Any extra Super Serial cards ?


From kroma at worldnet.att.net  Mon Sep 28 20:49:54 1998
From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
Message-ID: <008e01bdeb4b$7526e600$b7124f0c@kroma-i>


>First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
>different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
>that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early Apple
>][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
>


Were the keys a different color. //e's made in 1983 and early 1984 looked
different then later models. There is no significant differences between the
two. There is also the Enhanced //e, which came later. It had a slightly
different character set and used the 65C02 cpu instead of the 6502, among
other things.

        -- Kirk




From marvin at rain.org  Mon Sep 28 20:52:09 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Osborne 01's
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org> <360F7232.18736156@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <36103D49.2034D8F2@rain.org>

Phil Clayton wrote:
> 

> BTW: The spelling is Osborne.Here is a picture on Tom Copper's Web site of the
> First production of the Osborne 01.

Thanks for the spelling correction.  I knew it was wrong when I wrote it,
but didn't take the time to find out the correct spelling.

Thanks much for the references!!!  Before the VCF, I didn't realize there
were two different versions and it looks like both of mine are the earlier
version.  Now to find the later version :).


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Mon Sep 28 09:54:37 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Osborne 01's
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org> <360F7232.18736156@sprintmail.com> <36103D49.2034D8F2@rain.org>
Message-ID: <360FA32D.D10F80B2@sprintmail.com>

> Phil Clayton wrote:
> > BTW: The spelling is Osborne.Here is a picture on Tom Copper's Web site of the
> > First production of the Osborne 01.
>
> Thanks much for the references!!!  Before the VCF, I didn't realize there
> were two different versions and it looks like both of mine are the earlier
> version.  Now to find the later version :).

Thats interesting I have both of the later versions and I'm searching for an earlier
version..
--Phil



From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Mon Sep 28 20:09:13 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: "D. Peschel" <dpeschel@u.washington.edu>
        "Re: Apple Questions" (Sep 28, 14:58)
References: <199809282158.OAA08288@saul7.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9809290209.ZM14366@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 28, 14:58, D. Peschel wrote:
> Marvin wrote:
> > Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I
> > should look for when I start checking out the drives?
>
> Make sure the cables are aligned, otherwise you will fry a diode (it
> could beanother component -- I think it's a rectifier).  This applies
> to the Disk ][ -- I don't know about other drives.

More likely you'll let the magic white smoke out of the 74LS125.  It used
to happen regularly to drives that staff borrowed over a weekend.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Mon Sep 28 20:50:50 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: "Lawrence Walker" <lwalker@mail.interlog.com>
        "Re: Apple Questions" (Sep 28, 19:36)
References: <199809282339.TAA23537@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <9809290250.ZM14379@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 28, 19:36, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> On 28 Sep 98 at 12:35, Marvin wrote:
> > This morning, a friend of mine brought over a pickup truck load of
Apple
> > computers, monitors, printers, and dead disk drives.

> > Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I
> > should look for when I start checking out the drives?

> Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings,
> so using an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without
> setting them up.

Disk][s don't have any setup (apart from internal speed/alignment
servicing).  Whether a drive is Drive 1 or Drive 2 depends solely on which
of the two connectors it's plugged in to, on the controller.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Sep 28 18:00:19 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: VCF Comments
In-Reply-To: <36100E28.B4D7B88D@rain.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980928084508.14135B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980928160019.02e7abc8@agora.rdrop.com>

At 03:31 PM 9/28/98 -0700, Marvin wrote:
>As usual, the VCF was a lot of fun and a great chance to put faces with many
>of the names that appear on this list.  Besides the neat collection of older
>working computers on display, it seemed like most of the fun took place in
>the swap area.  

Seconded, thirded, etc...!
>
>In the display area, The Computer Museum had a number of things including
>the Apple I.  When I was talking to Carol Welsh of the Computer Museum, she
>indicated that someone had brought an Apple I to the VCF and sold it to
>someone else for $2000.  At the point that I talked with her, the other
>person with her was trying to track down the parties involved.

Now, don't that make all of the people who did not attend REALLY sorry?

>Someone made the comment that there were two varieties of the Osbourne I,
>and I gather that the difference was in the case (not talking about the
>Executive, only the Osbourne I.)  Anyone have any input on this?  When I
>checked mine, they were both like the one on display which was supposed to
>be the older one but I'm not sure I've ever seen a One that looked any
>different.

Check my web site.  I have both variations.  The early one came in the
brown (tan) vacu-form'd case.  The later version came in a grey molded case
and usually had the double-density upgrade standard.

>The tour of The Computer Museum at Moffet Field was incredible.  The
>collection was what they called "Visible Storage" and they had about 2% of
>their collection where people could take a look.

Yep!  It was most cool.  Many thanks to Sam for putting the tour together.

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 28 14:56:08 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
In-Reply-To: <19980928.092051.71.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980928145227.14065A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote:

> Oooooh, you lucky, lucky dog!  I had an EL-8, which was destroyed in the 
> earthquake in L.A. a few years ago.  Is the bottom case half black or 
> grey-blue color?  Mine was black.

Same here, off-white (stone?) on top, black on bottom.  The seller forgot
to bring the AC adapter with him, so I have to go pick it up before I can
see that weird display light up.

-- Doug



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 29 01:41:48 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: More RSX-11M and ESDI
Message-ID: <v04011707b2362db33859@[207.220.32.149]>

Question:
How required are front panel connections for drives?  The manual for my
WQESD controller states "if required a front panel can be connected".


Background:
I'm still working on the problems I described in my "ESDI, MSCP, RSX11M,
TK50's, etc." message yesterday.  I got adventurous with the RQDX3, and
tried the CSR settings listed for the RQDX2 controller and it worked.  I
replaced the Quad-Height WQESD ESDI Controller with the RQDX3 and a
Continuity card, booted from tape, "BAD'd" the disk, and then "BRU'd" part
of a tape to the disk.  Unfortunatly it was to small a disk to hold the
entire tape, but it tells me what I'm doing is right.

I also discovered that the Unrecoverable error -65 that "BAD" has been
giving me is apparently telling me that the device is either offline or
unavailable.  I got the same error when I initially tried the procedure
with the RQDX3 and a RD52, but then discovered that I didn't have the
34-pin cable plugged in all the way.

I'm sure the ESDI drive and controller are a good combination, and work, as
I was able to use the onboard programs to format and test the drive.  It
looks to me like my problem is that as far as the software or hardware is
concerned that the drive isn't online.

On that note, I'll probably give the Emulex QD21 controller I've got a try
tomorrow night since I've got a front panel thing for it.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 01:56:54 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Anyone got docs for the DTE20 interface?
In-Reply-To: <13391574155.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <13391574155.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <19980929065654.12178.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> wrote about the DTE20:
> It interfaces the console PDP-11 to a KL-10.

No, it interfaces a PDP-11 to a KL10.  DEC didn't make anything called
"KL-10".

> ANyone have documentation for it?

Yes.  What would you like to know?  Basically it lets the PDP-11 load the
KL10 microcode, transfer data to and from the KL10's memory, and allows
the PDP-11 to interrupt the KL10 and vice versa.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 03:25:42 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
Message-ID: <19980929082542.12441.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Questions came up last week about how much power a DECsystem-1090 CPU (KL10)
consumes, and how the power supply works.  Tony Duell suggested that the KL10
might not consume any more power than a big PDP-11/45 system; I disagreed.

My previous description of the power system was not entirely accurate, so I've
dug out some technical documentation, including the manual "Power System
(1080/1090) Interface Description", part number EK-PWR1-ID-002, dated March
1977.

The KL10 CPU cabinet consists of three bays.  In a 1080 or 1090, the middle
bay contains the main CPU card cage, which has 47 extended hex modules full
of ECL logic.

The left bay (as viewed from the front) contains an I/O card cage containing
up to 50 extended hex modules full of TTL for the RH20 Massbus channels, DTE20
front-end interfaces, DMA20 memory bus interface, and DIA20 I/O bus interface.

The right bay contains a PDP-11/40 front end processor, a TU56 dual DECtape
transport, and a TC11 DECtape control.

Note that this does not include any memory or peripherals necessary to
make a complete system.  I am going to describe only the power requirements
of the CPU cabinet.

All KL10 models require three-phase power.  The KL10-AA and KL10-BA models
operate on three phases of 90-132 VAC 60 Hz (208 VAC nominal phase-to-phase)
The KL10-AB and KL10-BB operate on three phases of 180-264 VAC 50 Hz (416V
nominal phase-to-phase).  Total input power is specified as 12.6 kW typical
for a basic system; a real-world configuration would have more DTE20 and
RH20 units, so it would consume more power.

Needless to say, the power supplies in the KL10 are not power factor
corrected.  The 863 three-phase power control has a 75A main circuit breaker.
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the DECsystem-10 Site Preparation Guide,
so I don't know what the actual specifications for peak current per phase
are.

With the exception of the power supply for the main CPU cage and the cooling
fans for that bay, most of the machine actually operates on single phase
power.  The various fans and power supplies are distributed between the
phases to balance the load.

The CPU cage fans operate between two phases (208V) in the -AA and -BA models,
and between one phase and neutral (240V) in the -AB and -BB models.

The power supply for the ECL consists of an H760A or H760B raw power supply
(depending on the line voltage), a 70-09475 capacitor assembly, and an H761
regulated series pass assembly.

The H760A/B contains three ferroresonant transformers with primaries wired in
a three-phase delta.  The secondaries are center-tapped and wired with
half-wave bridge rectifiers.  The output is -12V at 490A.  The diodes are
mounted to a massive heat sink with its own fans.

The capacitor assembly consists of thirteen 0.3F capacitors in parallel for
a total capacitance of 3.9F.  The output under full load is -11V+-10%.
In the event of a power failure, this is sufficient to allow a hold time
of 20 ms before the voltage drops below -7.5V.

The H761 regulated series pass assembly consists of 13 linear regulators.
Nine have -5.2V 35A outputs for the ECL main power, and four have -2V 35A
outputs for ECL termination.  There is room for a 14th linear regulator
which is normally not installed.

The maximum load for the CPU card cage is thus (9*5.2V*35A)+(4*2.0V*35A), or
1918W.  At that load, the input power required by the power supply is
over 5460W.  This is less than 35% efficiency.

Of course, the ECL power supply is nowhere near the whole story.

The following additional power supplies are in the system:

quant	model	output			use
-----	-----	------			--------------
1	H720	+5, -15			DECtape system
1	H725
	
1	H7420 AC power supply		PDP-11/40
3	H744	+5
1	H745	-15
1	H754	+20, -5

1	H732	0-20VDC			margin check
1	783-C	+10, -15

1	H7420 AC power supply
1	H744	+5V			CPU cage TTL supply
2	H744	+5V			I/O cage DTE20 TTL supply
1	H744	+5V			I/O cage RH20 TTL supply

1	H7420 AC power supply
4	H744	+5V			I/O cage RH20 TTL supply

1	H7420 AC power supply
1	H770	+15V	   		air flow sensors
1	H745	-15V			I/O cage DIA20/DMA20
3	H744	+5			I/O cage DIA20/DMA20 TTL supply

I have not found any figures for typical current used by the various
subsystems.  However, the ratings of the regulators are:

H720    5V 22A, -15V 10A, unregulated -22V 1A, unregulated +8V 1.5A
			  (unregulated outputs not used in KL10)
H732	0-20V 5A
H744	5V 25A
H745	-15V 10A
H754	+20V 8A and -5V 1A
H770	+15V 10A

DEC didn't waste any more money on regulators than necessary, so it is
a safe assumption that a fully configured system will use most of the
available DC power, which for just the +5V supplies alone is 1860W.

Fortunately the power supplies used with the H7420s are switchers, so they
are probably at least 65% efficient.

Eric


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 03:50:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: More Swapmeet stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809270940.A28896-0100000@netcom10>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929014841.17799D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:

>   Along with the Compaq books and the Jonos Escort previously 
> described, I just stumbled (literally!) over the other bit of 
> vintage digital gear..  an unopened/shrink wrapped box containing an 
> AT&T Voicepower VP1 module for the 6300 series.  The box is marked 
> "Work Group System  Voice Power"

Cool.  If you got the manual with this then I'd appreciate a photocopy of
it.  I picked up a 6300 expansion chassis with five of these boards
installed and want to know what I can do with this.

>   Apparently it is a trainable voice-input command module. Along with

For voice-recognition or voicemail?  I imagined it was to allow you to do
voicemail/auto-attendant functions on an AT&T 6300.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 03:53:30 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
In-Reply-To: <360EB92F.49A6@bright.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929015222.17799E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:

> Recently I added a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A to my collection. Since
> then I also bought one in a off white or beige case (I'm not sure what
> you would call the color). Was the non-metal case version of the
> TI-99/4A a later model? I also need to know if anyone has a schematic
> for both of these models?

The beige model was later.

I have the full schematic for the TI-99/4a.  Keep this in mind but don't
ask me to photocopy it for a while.  I'll be tied up trying to get my
collection in order for some time so I won't be able to do it in the short
term.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 04:27:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130
In-Reply-To: <199809281437.OAA28492@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929020539.17799F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Christian Fandt wrote:

> The point is that if we know of, work with, have in the family, run into on
> the street, share a jail cell with or any other way discover an old time
> computer industry person who could have some 'lost' history to offer, make
> an attempt to let them know you are interested in the history of computing
> and would like them to help you preserve what he/she knows or otherwise
> owns about the long obsolete hardware/software that that person had a hand
> in. If you are shy about approaching that person maybe another fellow

This is probably the most important part of being a computer "collector"
or "preservationist": getting the stories.  The hardware is tangible, and
easy to acquire.  The stories require more work to acquire and preserve,
but they are more important than th artifacts themselves.

> collector could help you break the ice. Or, simply screw up the gumption
> and introduce yourself and hope for the best. Quite often when a person
> sees you are sincere about learning what he/she has once had been working
> with and hears your request to learn what he/she has to offer as far as
> preserving the history of something they once had a hand in they will be
> open to you.

Old computer people LOVE to talk about their past work.  I especially love
to talk to the old timers, since they are the most generous with their
stories.  They love to recount the contributions they made to computing
history since nobody really cared (or could comprehend) what they were
doing during the time they were doing it.  I had a chance to talk to a
couple of old guys at a Computer Museum dinner function last week,
including a programmer of the SAGE and another old guy who went around
introducing himself to people and talking their ear off with computer
history anecdotes.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 04:36:17 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <360FE4F8.482E127D@rain.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929023225.17799I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote:

> First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
> different keyboards.  On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
> that on the rest of the computers.  Is this one way to identify early Apple
> ][e computers, or is there any significance to it?

It was the first revision Apple //e.  And yes, it is one way to identify
the earlier Apple //e.  The other way is by checking the revision stamped
on the motherboard.  I believe this version will be 'A' and the later
version with the black lettering will be 'B'.  The enhanced //e looks the
same as the Rev. B //e, and then the Platinum //e has an obvious numeric
keypad.

> Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them.  I had thought
> these were for the Apple III computers;  is this so, and/or were they also
> used for other Apple computers?

The Monitor /// was originally intended for the Apple ///, but since the
/// flopped, and Apple probably had a ton on hand, they made those stands
that fit around your Apple ][ that allow you to nicely stack the Monitor
/// on top.  They work fine with either Apple, and in fact are simply
monochrome monitors.

> Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
> look for when I start checking out the drives?

Drive speed, dirty heads.  Drive speed is easy to adjust.  Use Copy2plus
to display the drive speed while you tweak the drive speed potentiometer
on the drive's controller board.  Let me know if you need help with this.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 04:50:56 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <199809282339.TAA23537@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929024747.17799K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

> Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the icon is bigger on the
> unenhanced lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle
> displays Apple ll-e the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their

Remember that the second revision unenhanced //e has the same keyboard as
the enhanced //e.  The way you know that a //e is enhanced is by the
sticker that says "Enhanced" around the green power LED.  However, if the
original owner added the enhancement kit and didn't put the sticker on the
LED, you'd have to look inside for the upgraded ROMs and the 65C02.

> regular lle however and I don't know if this is true with the upgrades.
> IIRC the A3 monitor came out before the A3 and can be used with any ll.

The Monitor /// came out with the Apple ///.

>  Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings,
> so using an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without
> setting them up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better
> info on this.

Apple disk drives are dumb devices.  They'll go on whatever port or in
whatever order you put them, and are totally interchangeable.  They don't
care.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 29 05:05:17 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Caldera OpenLinux User)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929024747.17799K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 29, 98 02:50:56 am
Message-ID: <199809291005.EAA26072@calico.litterbox.com>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep 29 05:09:33 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929020539.17799F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929050308.15850A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> From him I learned that the IBM 5100 was actually a knock-off of a
> computer called the MCM-70!!  The MCM-70 was manufactured by a Canadian
> company, and included a CRT, tape drive and APL in ROM.  It was marketed
> at the insurance industry.  IBM, having a big stake in the insurance
> industry, needed to come up with a product lest MCM take over the market.
> So they answered with the 5100, which basically was a rip-off of the
> MCM-70.  Knowing this, it explains why IBM, a company which shunned
> personal computers until 1981, would have come out with a "personal
> computer" in the 1975 time frame.  They wouldn't have done so unless they
> were forced to!

The nice thing about these stories is that they're all different --
everybody has their own spin.  When I asked the guy who headed-up US sales
of the IBM 5100 about his story, it was that the 5100 was in response to
machines from HP and Wang, and that they lost to those machines on price
(the IBM 9830, for example, was about $10K for a similar setup).  IBM was
simply not used to competing based on price/features.

BTW, CBI has lots of MCM docs in their archives.  I'm not familiar with
MCM at all, but I got the sense that they always played in the insurance
niche, and always did fairly well there.

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep 29 05:13:54 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929050308.15850A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> (the IBM 9830, for example, was about $10K for a similar setup).  IBM was

Argh, late night email.  That should read HP 9830 was about $10K *less*.

-- Doug



From foxvideo at wincom.net  Tue Sep 29 05:50:18 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Fw: Who's on Start?
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980929065018.0068ab48@mail.wincom.net>

>From: "F.J. Ted Douglas" <tdouglas@MNSi.Net>
>To: "Charles Fox" <foxvideo@wincom.net>
>Subject: Fw: Who's on Start?
>Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:31:08 -0400
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Meg Perry <callusedwarhorse@hotmail.com>
>To: tamahome@tvo.org <tamahome@tvo.org>; not@idirect.com <not@idirect.com>;
>maerionne@hotmail.com <maerionne@hotmail.com>
>Cc: tdouglas@MNSi.Net <tdouglas@MNSi.Net>
>Date: September 28, 1998 8:30 AM
>Subject: Who's on Start?
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Costello: Hey, Abbott!
>>> Abbott:   Yes, Lou?
>>>
>>> Costello: I just got my first computer.
>>> Abbott:   That's great, Lou. What did you get?
>>>
>>> Costello: A Pentium II-266, with 40 Megs of RAM, a 2.1 Gig hard drive,
>>>               and a 24X CD-ROM.
>>> Abbott:   That's terrific, Lou.
>>>
>>> Costello: But I don't know what any of it means!
>>> Abbott:   You will in time.
>>>
>>> Costello: That's exactly why I'm here to see you.
>>> Abbott:   Oh?
>>>
>>> Costello: I heard that you're a real computer expert.
>>> Abbott:   Well, I don't know . . .
>>>
>>> Costello: Yes-sir-ee. You know your stuff. And you're going to train
>>me.
>>> Abbott:   Really?
>>>
>>> Costello: Uh huh. And I am here for my first lesson.
>>> Abbott:   O.K. Lou. What do want to know?
>>>
>>> Costello: I am having no problem turning it on, but I heard that you
>>should
>>>               be very careful how you turn it off.
>>> Abbott:   That's true.
>>>
>>> Costello: So, here I am working on my new computer and I want to turn
>>>               it off. What do I do?
>>> Abbott:   Well, first you press the Start button, and then . . .
>>>
>>> Costello: No, I told you I want to turn it off.
>>> Abbott:   I know, you press the Start button . . .
>>>
>>> Costello: Wait a second. I want to turn it Off. I know how to start
>>it.
>>>              So tell me  what to do.
>>> Abbott:   I did.
>>>
>>> Costello: When?
>>> Abbott:   When I told you to press the Start button.
>>>
>>> Costello: Why should I press the Start button?
>>> Abbott:   To shut off the computer.
>>>
>>> Costello: I press Start to stop?
>>> Abbott:   Well, Start doesn't actually stop the computer.
>>>
>>> Costello: I knew it! So what do I press?
>>> Abbott:   Start.
>>>
>>> Costello: Start what?
>>> Abbott:   Start button.
>>>
>>> Costello: Start button to do what?
>>> Abbott:   Shut down.
>>>
>>> Costello: You don't have to get rude!
>>> Abbott:   No, no, no! That's not what I meant.
>>>
>>> Costello: Then say what you mean.
>>> Abbott:   To shut down the computer, press . . .
>>>
>>> Costello: Don't say, "Start!"
>>> Abbott:   Then what do you want me to say?
>>>
>>> Costello: Look, if I want to turn off the computer, I am willing to
>>press
>>>              the Stop button, the End button and Cease and Desist
>>button,
>>>              but no one in their right mind presses the Start to Stop.
>>> Abbott:   But that's what you do.
>>>
>>> Costello: And you probably Go at Stop signs, and Stop at green lights.
>>> Abbott:   Don't be ridiculous.
>>>
>>> Costello: I'm being ridiculous? Well, I think it's about time we
>>started
>>>              this conversation.
>>> Abbott:   What are you talking about?
>>>
>>> Costello: I am starting this conversation right now. Good-bye.
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>
>



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Tue Sep 29 08:18:31 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: Anyone got docs for the DTE20 interface?
In-Reply-To: <19980929065654.12178.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13391771607.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[No such thing as KL-10]

Oops, I thougt a dash went there.  Sorry.

[What am I after with DTE20?]
What registers has it got (on the PDP-11 side) and where is it?
I have a copy of the KL FEP disks (images), and I want to make it go
enough to get a list of commands off ofit.
So, I need to (reasonably) fake a DTE20 so the stuff will boot.

-------


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 29 10:41:50 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:55 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
Message-ID: <v04011700b236afc734ff@[207.220.32.149]>

As far as I can tell the cables required for a single ESDI drive are the
same as for a MFM drive.  Is this correct?

I discovered I'd not had the drive I've been trying to use terminated late
last night, but that didn't make any difference in my problems.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep 29 10:49:48 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130
In-Reply-To: <199809281437.OAA28492@cyber2.servtech.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19980928071416.1da7bdca@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980929104948.477f3f42@intellistar.net>

At 10:36 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Joe and I had passed a private msg or two regarding the IBM 1130, hence his
>checking with an IBM friend as to 1130 locations. This latest msg Joe
>posted through the list which is a good thing he did. 
>
>It brings up a point I probably have spoken about previously here. It is to
>try to find and preserve history of any obsolete, and in this case possibly
>extinct, computers or related objects. The fellow Joe contacted is probably
>not an "old timer" IBM salesman and probably would not know about machines
>that could have even predated his graduation from high school! Joe could
>maybe confirm this. 

  <snipped>


   Chris,

   You brought up some excellent points.  The guy I contacted at IBM isn't
exactly a newbe but he's in sales so I thought he MIGHT have come across an
1130 while trying to sell someone a new computer.  We all know how a lot of
old systems get shoved into store rooms. When looking for something like
this I've found it pays to ask EVERYONE that might have the slightest
connection.  Even janitors may know where some of these things are stashed.

   Joe



From marvin at rain.org  Tue Sep 29 12:56:32 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
References: <199809291005.EAA26072@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <36111F50.3021AAF8@rain.org>

Thanks everyone for all the input on the Apple ][e differences.  I did
notice one other difference between cases; there are two styles of latches
for the cover.  The first is like the Apple ][ Plus with a velcro like
latch.  The second has a lip that goes into a slot on the back of the
machine.

As for the existing machines, all but one has the 6502 processor with the
other having the 65C02 processor.  Hopefully I will get a chance today or
tomorrow to start firing them up and find out which are enhanced and which
are not.  Thanks for all the help.


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Tue Sep 29 13:08:30 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Can anyone identify this vax for sale on Ebay?
Message-ID: <199809291808.OAA01417@shell.monmouth.com>

Forwarded message:
> From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com
> Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#32203160: DEC MicroVax 3300 Mini Main Frame.L@@K.(pics)
> X-Mailer: <smsmtp>
> 
> I saw this item for sale at eBay.
> 
> Any idea what this is -- is it a MicroVax, an Alpha?
> 
> I'd love to bid on a MicroVax... but I'm unsure
> since the guy doesn't even have the DEC number on
> the box. (Probably picked it up for free...)
> 
> Title of item:	DEC MicroVax 3300 Mini Main Frame.L@@K.(pics)
> Seller:	wizardworkz@netscape.net
> Starts:	09/24/98 21:40:34 PDT 
> Ends:	10/01/98 21:40:34 PDT 
> Price:	Currently $157.50
> To bid the item, go to:	http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=32203160
> 
> 
> Item Description:		
> 
> DEC MICROVAX 3300
>  - Mini Main Frame - Alpha Server -

He says Alpha?

> 
> 
> They say that a picture is worth a thousand words...
> Well, there you are, several pics that I think will explain a little bit anyhow.... I wish I could sit here and tell you all about this monster server
> but I can't because I'm no technical genius with servers  (As a matter of fact
> this thing tends to just SERIOUSLY intimidate me). It came into my possession during the same
> commercial real estate purchase that the ALR server in my other auction came in.... BUT,THIS ONE RUNS NOW, AND IS COMPLETELY FUNTIONAL!!!!!
> SOME THINGS ABOUT IT THAT I CAN TELL YOU ....
> There is information available on this thing in several locations on the web.
> It was IN USE when the business moved.
> It is VERY heavy.
> It is a VERY popular machine amongst hackers due to it's abilities and the fact that it is virtually impossible to hack into "IT"....or so I have read.
> It is an extremely stable system which will run UNIX.
> If I knew how to set this badboy up I wouldn't even think to sell it- :)
> 
> BUYER PAYS SHIPPING...UPS GROUND. (should be around $60.00) It's VERY
> heavy.
> NO PERSONAL CHECKS..Money Order or Cashiers Check Only.
> Unfortunately because I am not able to set this thing up due to my lack
> of knowledge I can't very well guarantee it. Therefore it is being sold AS IS. 
> Know what you are bidding on and bid appropriately. I have set a reserve on this item
> BUT it is low for what the item is. (I'm not crazy,I know this thing sold for quite a 
> chunk new.)
> 
> 
> FOR ANY OF YOUR SOFTWARE NEEDS...VISIT OUR NEW SOFTWARE SITE...JUST CLICK THE  LINK BELOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com
> 


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 13:19:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929050308.15850A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929111939.5359B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> BTW, CBI has lots of MCM docs in their archives.  I'm not familiar with
> MCM at all, but I got the sense that they always played in the insurance
> niche, and always did fairly well there.

Is there a URL for this CBI?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep 29 13:43:47 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929111939.5359B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929132602.22588B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Is there a URL for this CBI?

	http://www.cbi.umn.edu/inv/corpman.htm

This shows there inventory for computer manuals -- I only see the manuals
for the MCM System 900 on the list, but I remember seeing more someplace. 
(Next time I'm in MN, I plan to do some serious photocopying :-) 

Here's an article by the ACM's SIGAPL that specifically mentions the MCM
System 1000 in comparison to the IBM 5120 and includes the quote:

<<Some of the early MCM computers have gone into insurance companies for
actuarial work. They have been reported to provide considerable savings
compared to timesharing.>>

	http://www.acm.org/sigapl/whyapl.htm

-- Doug



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 13:43:33 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:13:54 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980929184333.14986.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote about the failure (?) of the IBM 5100:

> (the IBM 9830, for example, was about $10K for a similar setup).  IBM was
...
> Argh, late night email.  That should read HP 9830 was about $10K *less*.

A pretty amazing deal, given that the IBM 5100 was priced under $10K for
a minimal configuration.

My recollection is that the HP 9830 and IBM 5100 were pretty competitively
priced.  Both started under 10K and went up fact if you wanted more memory,
a printer, etc.

Eric


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep 29 14:17:43 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <19980929184333.14986.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929141132.22588C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 29 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> A pretty amazing deal, given that the IBM 5100 was priced under $10K for
> a minimal configuration.
> 
> My recollection is that the HP 9830 and IBM 5100 were pretty competitively
> priced.  Both started under 10K and went up fact if you wanted more memory,
> a printer, etc.

My IBM 5100 came with some of the term sheets used to make the original
sale:
	IBM 5100 Model C2 (APL+BASIC+32K):	$16,490
	Communications Feature			  1,062
	IBM 5103 Printer:			  4,335

I have a price list for the HP 9830 somplace.  I'll post the prices when I
find them.  According to the IBM sales guy (who later went on to be a
member of the team that put together the 5150, BTW), the stiffest
competition came from Wang, but he couldn't remember the model.

-- Doug



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep 29 10:43:56 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <ea5079ea.36102e04@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199809291947.PAA00316@smtp.interlog.com>

On 28 Sep 98 at 20:47, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> re: apple drives
> any apple floppy drive can be used as drive 1 or 2; there is no difference.
> undisks are daisy chainable and disk ][s plug into a controller card which has
> two 20pin connections labled drive 1 and 2. the slot assignment was pretty
> much understood as slot 6 for disk drives. btw. i have several SSCs...
> 
> david
> 
> In a message dated 98-09-28 20:03:28 EDT, you write:
> 
> >  Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings, so 
> > using
> >  an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without setting
> them 
> > 
> >  up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better info on this.
> >   Any extra Super Serial cards ?
> 
 Oops, my slip is showing . I have several sets of Diskll drives and 2 of them 
are labelled drive A , drive B . I guess for the original owners quick ID. I 
use a Unidisk. I must have been thinking of the Atari or C64 fdds at the time.
Altheimers setting in.

ciao		larry  
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 29 14:53:00 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Can anyone identify this vax for sale on Ebay?
Message-ID: <199809291953.AA00152@world.std.com>


< > Title of item:	DEC MicroVax 3300 Mini Main Frame.L@@K.(pics)
< > Seller:	wizardworkz@netscape.net
< > Starts:	09/24/98 21:40:34 PDT 
< > Ends:	10/01/98 21:40:34 PDT 
< > Price:	Currently $157.50
< > To bid the item, go to:	
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI
< > 
< > 
< > Item Description:		
< > 
< > DEC MICROVAX 3300
< >  - Mini Main Frame - Alpha Server -
< 
< He says Alpha?

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

If the case says VAXanything or MicroVAX it's VAX.  If it's an Alpha 
it would say Alphamumble.  Systems with the DECmumble are MIPS.

It's KA640 serie vax with a VUP of 2.4.

Allison



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep 29 15:49:01 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <199809291947.PAA00316@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980929134719.21278A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

>  Oops, my slip is showing . I have several sets of Diskll drives and 2 of them 
> are labelled drive A , drive B . I guess for the original owners quick ID. I 
> use a Unidisk. I must have been thinking of the Atari or C64 fdds at the time.
> Altheimers setting in.

Actually, if the labels really read "Drive A:" and "Drive B:", then the
drives were once used in an Apple that had a Z80 SoftCard installed in
order to run CP/M.

The original Apple drive labels read "Drive 1", "Drive 2", etc...

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 29 13:10:57 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <9809290250.ZM14379@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Sep 29, 98 01:50:50 am
Message-ID: <m0zO4Em-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 29 13:26:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <19980929082542.12441.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 29, 98 08:25:42 am
Message-ID: <m0zO4TT-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 29 13:29:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b236afc734ff@[207.220.32.149]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 29, 98 07:41:50 am
Message-ID: <m0zO4WL-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From william at ans.net  Tue Sep 29 16:23:53 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: OT: Help in San Jose
In-Reply-To: <19980929184333.14986.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929172056.2507H-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

Minor off-topic sin occurs here...

I am currently in San Jose, and I need some networking stuff for work:
10baseT transceivers, RJ45 crimping tool set, GMT (telco flag) fuses,
etc.. Where can I get these in a pinch?

Please respond to me directly, NOT the list!

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep 29 17:01:05 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: OT: Help in San Jose
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929172056.2507H-100000@titan.purch.ans.ne
 t>
References: <19980929184333.14986.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980929170105.00cd1860@pc>

At 05:23 PM 9/29/98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>Minor off-topic sin occurs here...
>I am currently in San Jose, and I need some networking stuff for work:
>10baseT transceivers, RJ45 crimping tool set, GMT (telco flag) fuses,
>etc.. Where can I get these in a pinch?

Geez, in the valley of plenty...  you could probably go to the local
bagel shop and pick up stuff like that.  Try finding parts in the middle
of relative nowhere, like Wisconsin.  :-) 

Hmm, come to think of it, I might have to drive an hour to get them, 
but I'd cover 80 miles, and in the same time you'd be able to get 
off at the next exit to find the local Fry's...

- John



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 16:58:24 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929141132.22588C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:17:43 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929141132.22588C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980929215824.16045.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote:
> My IBM 5100 came with some of the term sheets used to make the original
> sale:
> 	IBM 5100 Model C2 (APL+BASIC+32K):	$16,490

IBM bragged about the fact that the single-langauge 16K version had a
list price of under $10K.  That is comparable to the HP 9830, which only
had basic, and had 4K of RAM (expandable to 8K).  Of course, the HP 9830
was introduced three years earlier.

In 1976, less than a year after the IBM 5100 was introducted, HP replaced
the 9830 with the much more powerful 9835.  However, the 9835B with CRT
display was physically larger and less portable than the IBM 5100.

The 9835A was reasonably portable but had only a single-line LED display
(like the 9830), rather than the small integral CRT of the IBM.

Eric



From ss at allegro.com  Tue Sep 29 17:19:14 1998
From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: VCF Update (was Re: Swapmeet finds)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980927010145.22759B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <H0000069001d2843@MHS>

I enjoyed VCF2, and have a few low-res pictures at
http://www.allegro.com/sieler/vcf2.html


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 17:30:04 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <m0zO4TT-000IyOC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zO4TT-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980929223004.16217.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> But I was arguing that it would be possible for an enthusiast to run and 
> maintain a KL10. I stand by that statement...

Since I (half-)own a KL10, I'd like to believe so also.  I'm just pointing
out that it's not going to be easy.

> I was only considering the CPU rack. I was comparing it against a pretty 
> full 11/45 system as there are a number of those owned by enthusiasts, 
> with a number of peripherals on them, which they keep going.

By CPU rack, do you mean the entire 3-bay cabinet (which still does not
include peripherals), or do you mean just the CPU card cage in the center
bay?

> The ECL requirements (-5V @ 400A say total) are not as bad as I'd have 
> thought. That PSU could be replaced (temporarily) with a switcher to keep the
> machine running.

My plan is to replace it with Vicor power supply modules, which include
DC-DC converters and AC-DC front ends.

The VI-HAM front ends accept a wide range of AC input voltages, and produce
about 300VDC for input to the DC-DC converters.  They are power-factor
corrected which is vital to minimizing the necessary circuit amperage.
Each VI-HAM handles 600W.

The DC-DC converters are available in 2V 40A and 5V 40A models; 5.2V is well
within the adjustment range.  They have remote sensing.  It is important to
the KL10 power layout to maintain separate remote sensing power supplies for
each section of the backplane, hence it is *NOT* a good idea to replace the
original nine 5.2V 35A supplies with a single 5.2V 315A supply.

The DC-DC converters are rated at a minimum efficiency of 80%, so the
maximum load of 1918W may require 2397.5W from the front end modules.
In principle four of the 600W VI-HAM modules should be sufficient for this,
but I'm inclined to go with five VI-HAM modules and distribute the loads in
order to not run them quite so close to the maximum rating.

The VI-HAMs are rated at a minimum efficiency of 90%, and a power factor of
0.99.  So the AC input will have to supply 2664W, which will be under 12A
at 240VAC.  This is about 72% efficiency (minimum), almost twice the
efficiency of the original linear supplies.

Assuming that the rest of the KL10 power supplies (which are not power factor
corrected) don't end up requiring more than 18A at 240VAC, I should be able
to operate the KL10 from a common 30A circuit.

Of course, we haven't even discussed memory, peripherals, and cooling yet.
The Ampex 4 MW memory box requires a few KW.  RP06s and TU78s use hefty
amounts as well.

>> DEC didn't waste any more money on regulators than necessary, so it is
> Actually, that's not always true! In many cases on 11's, the PSUs are 
> overrated by quite high margins. The 5V 25A regulator was a standard part 

What I meant was that although they used 25A regulators for all of the 5V
supplies, and I'm sure that none of them are actually run at close to the
current limit, they wired the machine with as few 25A regulators as they
reasonably could.  They didn't have four 25A regulators each being used
for 5A, for instance, when a single regulator would do.

>> a safe assumption that a fully configured system will use most of the
>> available DC power, which for just the +5V supplies alone is 1860W.
> 
> OK, call that 2kW. Erring on the safe side, lets say we need 3kW input to 
> the (modern) SMPSU that we'll use to replace the ECL supply.

Agreed.

> Say 1kW for 
> the other lines. That's 6kW. Not at all impossible to find. In fact I 
> think I've had that sort of total power in my machine room at once already.

No, I expect that the rest of the KL10 will require at least another 2kW
or so, not the 1kW you suggest.

However, your total of 6kW suggests that perhaps you really meant 3kW for
all the non-ECL power.

Cheers,
Eric



From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 29 18:43:33 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Can anyone identify this vax for sale on Ebay?
Message-ID: <199809292343.AA19297@world.std.com>


>If the case says VAXanything or MicroVAX it's VAX.  If it's an Alpha 
>it would say Alphamumble.  Systems with the DECmumble are MIPS.

Systems with 'DECstation mumble' should be MIPS, but if it
says 'DEC nnnn' then it may well be an Alpha... for example, I
have a DEC 3000/400 in my office.. this is an Alpha.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 29 18:46:16 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <19980929223004.16217.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 29, 98 10:30:04 pm
Message-ID: <m0zO9TI-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 29 20:37:47 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Can anyone identify this vax for sale on Ebay?
In-Reply-To: <199809291953.AA00152@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <v04011700b2373a55ae94@[207.220.32.77]>

>He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>If the case says VAXanything or MicroVAX it's VAX.  If it's an Alpha
>it would say Alphamumble.  Systems with the DECmumble are MIPS.
>
>It's KA640 serie vax with a VUP of 2.4.
>
>Allison

The really scarry part is the following comment:

>> Unfortunately because I am not able to set this thing up due to my lack
>> of knowledge I can't very well guarantee it. Therefore it is being sold
>>AS IS.
>> Know what you are bidding on and bid appropriately. I have set a reserve
>>on this item
>> BUT it is low for what the item is. (I'm not crazy,I know this thing
>>sold for quite a
>> chunk new.)

I found the page at lunch today, and was left wondering, does it even have
any disks?  According to the FAQ it should have DSSI disks, and based on
the pictures on the ebay page, I suspect they were external disks.  Which
tells me that he's trying to sell a non-SCSI VAX without disks for over
$160.00, the bid is at $157.50, and the reserve hasn't been met.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 29 19:50:47 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <m0zO9TI-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zO9TI-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980930005047.16836.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> Seems reasonable. I'd keep the original PSU, though, and make as few mods 
> as possible. Just in case you want to go back to the original config at 
> some time.

Absolutely!

None of the changes we intend to make to the KL10 involve any permanent
alteration.  Aside from the power supply, we want to change two other
things:

Memory - We have an Ampex 4 megaword ECC memory box for the KI10-style memory
bus (which is interfaced to the KL10 through the DMA20 memory bus interface in
the I/O bay).  However, it consumes massive amounts of power, and is
physically huge.  The main CPU card cage has two "S bus" memory interfaces
(not to be confused with Sun's S-bus which came many years later).  For each S
bus there is an ECL<-->TTL translator board, and a slot for cabling to the
DMA20.  I've done preliminary design work on a board to plug into the S bus
cable slot and implement the 4 megawords of memory using six 8M*8 SDRAM
chips.  I'd use a DIMM, but it won't fit mechanically due to the 12.7 mm
board spacing.  Over 55% of the memory bits will go to waste!

Disk and tape I/O - Several companies made Massbus-to-SCSI adapters; most
of them only supported 16-bit Massbus transfers for use on VAXen and
PDP-11en, but a few of them supported 18-bit Massbus needed for the
DECsystem-10 and DECSYSTEM-20.  I think I've talked someone who once
worked on these things to lend or give me one of the leftover prototype
units.  I don't have it yet, though, so this part could still fall through.

We'll still need to have the capability of using the RP06 (and perhaps the
TU78) on occasion in order to deal with standard media.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 29 22:15:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Windows 1.0?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929201504.12786C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
Windows 1.0?  Could you please get in touch with me? 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Tue Sep 29 22:30:17 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: (Fwd) RE: IBM XT286
Message-ID: <199809300330.WAA26697@trailingedge.com>

Can someone help this person out?  If so reply directly to her at 
the address below.

Thanks.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	"AUDREY" <kutter@arn.net>
Subject:        	RE: IBM XT286
Date sent:      	Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:22 -0500


I hope you can help me with my problem ,as you can see  I have 
this old
machine . I had to replace the battery and now I can't bring 
anything up. 
I can't even get the to the C: prompt. This one has a Conner hard 
drive,
this is the information on the drive : Conner,CP 30064H  ACO3286 
CP30064H
9027 CMO2322 3GT 2.55 ML2 T ALR POWERFLEX FLYER HARD 
DRIVE:60MB TYPE:6
S/N0361634. I don't have a manual or a systems disk for this 
machine.
Every time I try to run setup this is the message I get back : device 
I/O
error I get this message with every thing iI try. If you have a manual 
or
a systems disk can you make a copy and I will buy them from you. 
If you
can help me set this thing up will you  send the information in a 
way a 55
year old granny can understand . I want my grandson to learn on it. 
I'm
sorry this is so long . 

Thank You, 
Audrey


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Tue Sep 29 23:30:05 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: More Swapmeet stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929014841.17799D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809292155.A20563-0100000@netcom2>



On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
> 
> >   Along with the Compaq books and the Jonos Escort previously 
> > described, I just stumbled (literally!) over the other bit of 


> Cool.  If you got the manual with this then I'd appreciate a photocopy of
> it.  I picked up a 6300 expansion chassis with five of these boards
> installed and want to know what I can do with this.
> 
> >   Apparently it is a trainable voice-input command module. Along with
> 
> For voice-recognition or voicemail?  I imagined it was to allow you to do
> voicemail/auto-attendant functions on an AT&T 6300.

  
  Apparently it *is* voicemail, not voice command as it was 
explained to me by the person I got it from.

  Unfortunately, only the installation guide is in the box, no 
software or manuals...  I will have to wait another month to see if 
the person has those.  I am *supposed* to get two or three 3B2 ATT 
Unix boxen from him...  he said they would be at the October TRW 
Meet.  I wish I had his number, I'd call. Perhaps in a month I'll 
have this info, unless someone has it earlier.

  Cheers

John



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep 29 20:40:13 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929024747.17799K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809282339.TAA23537@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <199809300543.BAA17290@smtp.interlog.com>

On 29 Sep 98 at 2:50, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> 
> > Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the icon is bigger on the
> > unenhanced lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle
> > displays Apple ll-e the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their
> 
> Remember that the second revision unenhanced //e has the same keyboard as
> the enhanced //e.  The way you know that a //e is enhanced is by the
> sticker that says "Enhanced" around the green power LED.  However, if the
> original owner added the enhancement kit and didn't put the sticker on the
> LED, you'd have to look inside for the upgraded ROMs and the 65C02.
> 
 Another difference I note is that my enhanced has black lettering on the keys
as opposed to white and a translucent 65C02 cover over the power-on indicator. 
 Also the rear lip on the back of the enhanced is wider which prevents me from
inserting some cards (modem 80 , long Grappler+ ) from my heavily upgraded
A-ll.
 
> > regular lle however and I don't know if this is true with the upgrades.
> > IIRC the A3 monitor came out before the A3 and can be used with any ll.
> 
> The Monitor /// came out with the Apple ///.
> 
 To not appear as a complete idiot, since it would stand to reason that the
Monitor /// would have come with the A/// , I ran across this somewhere when
researching my monitor find. The way I remember it is that there was some delay
in the A/// intro and they put out the ready to go A/// monitor since it would 
function with the other models. I have to organise my snippets of info one of 
these days. It's becoming harder to find stuff but I'll search for this one if 
only to retain some sort of credibility. : ^ ))

ciao		larry

lwalker@interlog.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 30 00:43:28 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <19980929215824.16045.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980930001523.21758E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 29 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> IBM bragged about the fact that the single-langauge 16K version had a
> list price of under $10K.  That is comparable to the HP 9830, which only
> had basic, and had 4K of RAM (expandable to 8K).  Of course, the HP 9830
> was introduced three years earlier.

I can't get to my 9830 price data right now, but Dave Hicks puts the 9830
at under $6000 for the base config, so with a $4K difference in base
models, it shouldn't surprise you that there might be a $10K spread for
certain configurations, which was my original point.

In any case, the IBM 5100 evolved into the 5110 and 5120 before the 5150
came out, and while all of these HP and IBM models can be considered
"personal computers", none of them had the impact of the Apple ][ or IBM
5150, and the main reason was price (or, almost equivalently,
market positioning).

I think the IBM 5100 was introduced September 9, 1975, when I was 13 years
old and throwing newspapers for a living.  Had I been in the pc market
back then, my choices were the IBM 5100, the HP 9830, the HP 65 (which was
literally called a "personal computer" by HP), the PDP-8, the Altair 8800,
or the Scelbi 8H.  If they had all been available for the same price, I
probably would have chosen the IBM, the Altair would have been comic
relief, and we'd all be programming in APL, but that's not what happened.

(Instead, I got a hand-me-down HP 65 when my dad upgraded to the 67,
which was perfect for a kid who just wanted to play Lunar Lander during
class.)

-- Doug



From rax at warbaby.com  Wed Sep 30 02:23:56 1998
From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Trivia Question
Message-ID: <v03007806b2378bfa59a8@[205.134.240.149]>

Sometime in the mid-seventies, Queen Elizabeth became the first monarch to
send an email. Does anyone know the year, to whom she sent it, and what the
circumstances were?

R.

--



Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com

The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com


	Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.







From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 30 01:43:45 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Trivia Question
In-Reply-To: <v03007806b2378bfa59a8@[205.134.240.149]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980930013340.21758F-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Rax wrote:

> Sometime in the mid-seventies, Queen Elizabeth became the first monarch to
> send an email. Does anyone know the year, to whom she sent it, and what the
> circumstances were?

1976, Jimmy Carter, "congrats, dude!"

-- Doug




From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Wed Sep 30 01:42:56 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
Message-ID: <001601bdec3d$8f17be20$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

Tony Duell wrote:

>>
>> As far as I can tell the cables required for a single ESDI drive are the
>> same as for a MFM drive.  Is this correct?
>
>AFAIK yes, provided there are no twists in them. Some PC control (34 pin)
>cables have twists so you can set all the hard drives to the same drive
>number. This doesn't work with ESDI.
>
>And no, I am not confusing this with a PC floppy cable, which also has a
>twist, but in a different place.
>
>But the ESDI cables are standard 20 pin (radial data) and 34 pin
>(control) cables.


ESDI cables for PC's may or may not have a twist. The drive has a jumper
(usually marked drive 1 or 2) that must be set accordingly.

I've had a lot of trouble getting old ESDI drives to work also, especially
with Western Digital controllers. I thought all my drives were bad until I
found a Future Domain controller that worked with most of them. The drives
also need to be low level formatted by the card being used.

Hans Olminkhof



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 30 03:20:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: <199809300543.BAA17290@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980930011539.2289D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

>  Another difference I note is that my enhanced has black lettering on the keys
> as opposed to white and a translucent 65C02 cover over the power-on indicator. 
>  Also the rear lip on the back of the enhanced is wider which prevents me from
> inserting some cards (modem 80 , long Grappler+ ) from my heavily upgraded
> A-ll.

Again, the white lettering is the first revision system.  The black
lettering keyboard was the second.  The enhanced version that came out
looked like the second revision unenhanced model.  You could apply the
upgrade kit to any of the first two versions.

Basically, the determination of what type of //e you have is thus:

External:

White lettering keyboard
Black lettering keyboard
Black lettering keyboard with "Enhanced" sticker

Internal

Unenhanced - You boot up the machine and the top line has "APPLE ]["  
Enhanced - You boot up the machine and the top line has "Apple //e"  

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep 30 08:00:36 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Intel, Netscape stake Linux?
References: <360C44F7.77770740@banet.net>
Message-ID: <36122B74.E9214417@cnct.com>

Will Emerson wrote:
> 
> Another CNET url, regarding Linux, my apologies to those
> uninterested.....

Fuck your apologies.  Two messages in a row completely off topic to
the Classic Computer Collectors mailing list.  With attached web
pages that many couldn't read on their text displays anyway.  Yes,
_I_ use Netscape under Linux and don't have a problem reading it --
then again, I already knew through other channels about the deal
RedHat is working on.  The other article was of no value to anybody
except the remaining few who have a stake in the government and its
fear of the people.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep 30 09:40:52 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Nicolet, DEC rescue coming up
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980930094052.00c8e340@pc>


A few months ago, I picked up a scavenged non-working MicroVAX
and a little VaxStation 2000/VS410 from a junk storeroom at 
Nicolet Instruments in Madison, WI.  I'd missed a pair of much 
nicer graphics-equipped MicroVAXes dumpstered a month or so before.

I've received word that they're clearing out this storeroom.
I know there'a a TK50, carts, manuals and lots of other misc. junk,
including several Cypher (?) mag tape units.

It was piled high and deep and very poorly organized.  There's
also a rack-mount Nicolet 1280 that was known-working when retired.

Mr. Ismail, you have a 1080, would you like another from the 
Nicolet family?

I'll pick up what makes sense, and post a list.  I doubt I'll want
to keep it all.

- John



From oajones at bright.net  Wed Sep 30 06:19:31 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Timex Sinclair 2068 has been sold!
Message-ID: <361213C3.2DD@bright.net>

Thanks everybody for the inquiries about the 2068. It has been sold.

--Alan
-- 
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo,  PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Wed Sep 30 06:28:23 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Vaxstation 3100
In-Reply-To: <199809300702.AAA20512@lists4.u.washington.edu> from "classiccmp@u.washington.edu" at Sep 30, 98 00:02:05 am
Message-ID: <199809301128.HAA26530@shell.monmouth.com>

I just came out ahead on a Vaxstation 3100 from E-Bay, having skipped
the MicroVax3300...

Looks like it's a 3100 Model 38... can someone point me to video
pinouts, monitor specs etc since it's coming CPU box only.

I'm wondering if it will drive any of the Sun Sparcstation monitors
without a problem (or a modern multisync).  At worst I'll run it
with a VT100 (or 320 if I can find an MMJ cable).

As soon as it arrives I plan to load it with VAX/VMS from the 
non-commercial hobby distribution...  I'm wondering if I should
check to see if there are any licenses and software on the box
first.  Any suggestions?

Can this machine boot off a second drive -- I'd like to put
NetBSD up on an external drive.

Any pointers to FAQs and info on this machine would be appreciated.
I left DEC after the MicroVax II and 8650 so I have no info on this machine.

Boy, will it be good to see VAX/VMS again.


Bill
Bill


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Wed Sep 30 11:19:12 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Windows 1.0?
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5065BAB37@RED-MSG-43>

To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00.  As I recall, we
released 1.03 as the first version.

1.03 was available only on 360K 5 1/4" and had no VGA support.  1.04 was the
same as 1.03 except it was available only on 720K 3 1/2" and supported the
PS/2 _exclusively_.

Kai

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:16 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Windows 1.0?



Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
Windows 1.0?  Could you please get in touch with me? 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 30 11:19:37 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Stuff up for grabs
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980930091850.4483C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Here's a message from another list.  Please respond directly to the
original posters.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/21/98]




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Tue Sep 29 11:31:22 1998
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Greetings from Big D!
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1109551016.8069.cctalk@classiccmp.org>

Saw an article about you and your group --
I have a working TRS-80 Model I which
includes expansion interface, RS-232
board, and double disk drives (now, try
and contain yourself....) at my parent's
home in Pennsylvania - they  want to
'reclaim' the space, and keep dropping
hints about removing -- would hate to
'landfill' it since it works, but need a contact --

Tried contacting the TRS-80 user groups
from a search on the web, and the Tandy Corp
headquarters here in Fort Worth , but have
received no replies.

Thanks for the help.

Glenn Knuth
Dallas, Texas
glennkn@juno.com





From ronfinch at iglobal.net  Tue Sep 29 19:43:00 1998
From: ronfinch at iglobal.net (ron finch)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: old apple stuff
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1109551016.8069.cctalk@classiccmp.org>


have lots of old apple stuff for sale-how can i put it on your list???-ron






From emu at ecubics.com  Wed Sep 30 11:50:34 1998
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Vaxstation 3100
Message-ID: <19980930163508.AAA1132@emusp6>

Hi Bill,

----------
> From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Vaxstation 3100
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 5:28 AM
> 
> I just came out ahead on a Vaxstation 3100 from E-Bay, having skipped
> the MicroVax3300...

It's not so heavy, and is faster than the 3300. Better graphics & more ...
 
> Looks like it's a 3100 Model 38... can someone point me to video
> pinouts, monitor specs etc since it's coming CPU box only.

If you still need it in few days, e-mail me directly. I have it all here,
but in boxes because i'm moving all computers from one room to another ;-))

 
> I'm wondering if it will drive any of the Sun Sparcstation monitors
> without a problem (or a modern multisync). 

Modern multisync, sure. But the monitor has to be capabale of sync on
green, and a horiz freq of more than 70 kHz. 


> At worst I'll run it with a VT100 (or 320 if I can find an MMJ cable).

320 would be better, you have MMJ on both sides then ..

> 
> As soon as it arrives I plan to load it with VAX/VMS from the 
> non-commercial hobby distribution...  I'm wondering if I should
> check to see if there are any licenses and software on the box
> first.  Any suggestions?

hobby is ok, i have 6.0, but using NetBSD too.

> Can this machine boot off a second drive -- I'd like to put
> NetBSD up on an external drive.

You could boot probably all of the sixteen scsi devices (if you have two
scsi in it). Only problem is, NetBSD still has problems with scsi on
Vaxstations 3100/xx.
 
> Any pointers to FAQs and info on this machine would be appreciated.

feels free to ask me directly, check the NetBSD homepage, there are
pointers to Microvax hardware pages.

> I left DEC after the MicroVax II and 8650 so I have no info on this
machine.
> Boy, will it be good to see VAX/VMS again.

Like seeing an old friend ? ;-))

cheers,
emanuel


From mbg at world.std.com  Wed Sep 30 13:24:14 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: pdp-11 available - contact the poster, not me
Message-ID: <199809301824.AA23493@world.std.com>


>Xref: world alt.sys.pdp11:5203
>Path: world!blanket.mitre.org!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
>From: "James A. Williams" <jawillie@hslc.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>Subject: We have a PDP11/44 Available
>Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:22:10 -0700
>Organization: The University of the Arts
>Lines: 27
>Message-ID: <3611173D.88A4C27B@hslc.org>
>Reply-To: jawillie@hslc.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.28.84.92
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Trace: 907165264 YRH3WRCEH545CD01CC usenet78.supernews.com
>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win16; I)

We currently have a full PDP11/44 system that we are trying to get rid
of.  The system consists of the
following

1 - PDP11/44
1 - TS11 Tape drive
2 - RMO2 Drives
2 - Systems Industries Drives (680Mb, 390Mb)
1 - DEC LP25 Printer

We are willing to entertain any reasonable offer for this equipment.  We
are also willing to donate this
equipment to any charitable or educational institution.  If you are
interested in this equipment, email
either myself at the address below or Joyce Zogott at jzogott@uarts.edu.

Thanks.

--
  James A. Williams, PC Systems Analyst
  The University of the Arts
  Computer Services
  Voice: (215)875-4856
  Fax: (215)546-6134
  jawilliams@uarts.edu




From marvin at rain.org  Wed Sep 30 15:54:11 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Windows 1.0?
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980929201504.12786C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36129A73.5312CBAB@rain.org>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
> Windows 1.0?  Could you please get in touch with me?

I have the Windows 1.03 package and might even be able to find an extra
copy, although probably missing some of the docs.


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 30 17:26:26 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <19980929184333.14986.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
 <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980930172626.505f061e@intellistar.net>

At 06:43 PM 9/29/98 -0000, you wrote:

>My recollection is that the HP 9830 and IBM 5100 were pretty competitively
>priced.  Both started under 10K and went up fact if you wanted more memory,
>a printer, etc.

   Not really.  It depends on when you bought them.  I had IBM research my
5100 and it cost $12,575 originally.   I have SOME of the yearly prices for
the 5100 posted at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/ibm5100.htm"

   Joe



From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep 30 16:43:02 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: WANG WLTC up for trade
Message-ID: <199809302150.RAA24063@gate.usaor.net>

Hello everybody.

I have a WANG WLTC laptop computer (circa 1980's).  I do not want to sell
it for cash, but I'd be willing to trade it for another unusual
portable/laptop.  

Here's some specs on it:

-NEC V30 (8086) processor
-10MB Winchester Disk
-External Centronics-type SCSI port (HD is also SCSI)
-Built-in thermal printer, with roll/cut sheet capabilities
-512K RAM
-RS232-C Serial port

If you're interested in it, email me, and I can send you more info and/or a
picture of it.

There is, however, a problem with the internal (regulating/switching) power
supply.  It runs the computer, but keeps blowing a capacitor.  It also
needs an external P/S and battery.  The battery is 10 sub-cells (with a
resistor - I have a schematic).  A Tyco 20VDC racing transformer (the kind
for the little car/track sets) will run it.

I had an offer to trade it for an IBM PC-Radio, but I never got a reply. 
If anyone has one of these, or any other odd or unusual laptops/portables,
and would be willing to trade, let me know.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 30 16:51:59 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: IBM 5100 (was Re: Preserving history. Was: Re: IBM 1130)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980930172626.505f061e@intellistar.net> (message from
	Joe on Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:26:26)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
 <Pine.LNX.3.95.980929051243.15850B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <3.0.1.16.19980930172626.505f061e@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <19980930215159.21496.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:
> My recollection is that the HP 9830 and IBM 5100 were pretty competitively
> priced.  Both started under 10K and went up fact if you wanted more memory,
> a printer, etc.

Joe <rigdonj@intellistar.net> wrote:
>    Not really.  It depends on when you bought them.  I had IBM research my
> 5100 and it cost $12,575 originally.   I have SOME of the yearly prices for
> the 5100 posted at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/ibm5100.htm"

Yes, but your 5100 has the optional second language, and four times the
RAM of the 9830.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 30 15:21:00 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <19980930005047.16836.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 30, 98 00:50:47 am
Message-ID: <m0zOSkD-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 30 15:40:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: (Fwd) RE: IBM XT286
In-Reply-To: <199809300330.WAA26697@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 29, 98 10:30:17 pm
Message-ID: <m0zOT32-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 30 15:47:04 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
In-Reply-To: <001601bdec3d$8f17be20$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Sep 30, 98 04:42:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zOT9P-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 30 18:26:45 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: DECsystem-1090 (KL10) power requirements
In-Reply-To: <m0zOSkD-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zOSkD-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980930232645.21940.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:
> Memory - We have an Ampex 4 megaword ECC memory box for the KI10-style memory
> bus
...
> I've done preliminary design work on a board to plug into the S bus
> cable slot and implement the 4 megawords of memory using six 8M*8 SDRAM
> chips.

Tony Duell replied:
> If it was my machine, I'd probably try to get the memory box working, 
> even if it eats power (what? 3kW or so?). On the other hand, a new memory 
> subsystem is certainly a reversable mod, and it's something worthwhile...

If it was a DEC memory box, I'd be more interested.  We're not going to
throw it away, but I don't really see any point in trying to use it.  If
it was core memory, that would be interesting, but it's just a humungous
box of 16K DRAMs, which aren't exciting at all.  And it's certainly not
representative of the type of memory that was available when the machine
was introduced.

Cheers,
Eric


From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep 30 18:30:58 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: WANG WLTC up for trade
Message-ID: <199809302338.TAA17174@gate.usaor.net>

> Hi Jason:
> 
> This is just a guess, but I think that the 'blown capacitor' problem is
> directly related to the 'TYCO' power supply. It's output IS going to be
> _very_ noisy, when compared to computer grade supplies. The peak voltage
> is probably what's killing things. I would look for an 18v supply.
> 
> Chuck

That's what I thought.  I have 2 of the WANG WLTC's (that's why I'm trading
one).  The other one has worked fine for about 1 year (and longer with the
previous owner) with the Tyco supply.  The other keeps blowing.  I think
it's being caused by some weak components elsewhere in the circuit (some of
the other caps may be beginning to deteriorate).
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

PS>> Your date is 8 months off - it's set for January 30 1998.


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Sep 29 17:16:03 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Apple Questions
In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
        "Re: Apple Questions" (Sep 29, 19:10)
References: <m0zO4Em-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <9809292316.ZM15416@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 29, 19:10, Tony Duell wrote:
> Subject: Re: Apple Questions
> > Disk][s don't have any setup (apart from internal speed/alignment
>
> And the read amplifier offset/threshold, R28 on the analogue board.
>

Yes, I sort of included that in "alignment" -- in the electronic sense.
 Actually, not all Disk][s seem to have a pot there; and it was some time
before I worked out how to set it properly (the Apple tech manuals I had in
those days didn't mention it) and I had to wait until I got a Sony manual
to figure it out.  I remember asking once Motorola for the MC3470
datasheet, and the UK office told me it didn't exist!

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From mbg at world.std.com  Wed Sep 30 19:51:18 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
Message-ID: <199810010051.AA01288@world.std.com>


>The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
>connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive
>only, same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences
>between ESDI and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details
>though.

I have one of the Andromeda ESDC controllers for qbus pdp-11s, and it
has four connectors on it.  One wide one (like the wide MFM one) and
three of the narrow ones.  According to the documentation I have, one
could attach up to three drives to the one controller, possibly up
to six with some sort of adapter...  (It also support floppies with
an adapter, but I don't have that)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+




From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 30 20:24:50 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
Message-ID: <199810010124.AA26688@world.std.com>

< The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
< connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive onl
< same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences between 
< and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details though.

EDSI does not generally use the twist unless that was a PC hack.  The 
Ultrastor EDSI controllers I hav elaying around use the esact cabling 
as a pair of MFM drive on a WD 1003/5/6 controller.

The only thing in PCs I know of that use a twist cable is Floppies.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 30 20:24:56 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: WANG WLTC up for trade
Message-ID: <199810010124.AA26750@world.std.com>

> There is, however, a problem with the internal (regulating/switching) 
< > supply.  It runs the computer, but keeps blowing a capacitor.  It als
< > needs an external P/S and battery.  The battery is 10 sub-cells (with 
< > resistor - I have a schematic).  A Tyco 20VDC racing transformer (the 
< > for the little car/track sets) will run it.

< This is just a guess, but I think that the 'blown capacitor' problem is
< directly related to the 'TYCO' power supply. It's output IS going to be
< _very_ noisy, when compared to computer grade supplies. The peak voltag
< is probably what's killing things. I would look for an 18v supply.
< 
< Chuck

Good point.  the answer is simple... What is te voltage rating of the 
failed cap?  Likely the tyco power far exceeds the required voltage.

Allison
 



From g at ehrich.com  Wed Sep 30 20:26:08 1998
From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: Windows 1.0?
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5065BAB37@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980930212526.00908d80@popmail.voicenet.com>

At 09:19 AM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00.  As I recall, we
>released 1.03 as the first version.
>

  Over the last several years I have sold original copies of both 1.0 and 1.03

  Gene
               gene@ehrich
   http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale


From g at ehrich.com  Wed Sep 30 20:22:42 1998
From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: IBM XT286
In-Reply-To: <m0zOT32-000IyOC@p850ug1>
References: <199809300330.WAA26697@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199810010133.SAA12917@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

>Alas the only information I have on the XT-286 is the circuit diagrams. 
>It's pretty much an electronic 'clone' of the PC/AT in a different case. 
>I also seem to remember that the ROM BIOS is almost identical to the 
>later AT BIOS.

  I have an XT/286 in a box and used it for many years.

  It is IBM's clone of the PC/AT with a few exceptions.

  1. It uses an XT case
  2 It is 6mhz with 0 (zero) wait states.
  3. Some AT boards will not fit into it.

  Due to the zero wait states it is faster than other 6mhz AT's that do
have wait states.


               gene@ehrich
   http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Sep 30 21:25:10 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
References: <199810010124.AA26688@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3612E806.AE2802F2@rain.org>

Allison J Parent wrote:
> 
> EDSI does not generally use the twist unless that was a PC hack.  The
> Ultrastor EDSI controllers I hav elaying around use the esact cabling
> as a pair of MFM drive on a WD 1003/5/6 controller.

The ESDI drives I have used on PCs are either set to drive select 0 with no
twist in the cable, or drive select 1 with the twist in the cable.
 
> The only thing in PCs I know of that use a twist cable is Floppies.

That might be true for the early PCs, but almost every PC I have seen uses a
twisted cable for the HD as well as the floppies (and of course the twist is
different for HDs than the floppies.)


From cad at gamewood.net  Wed Sep 30 21:40:15 1998
From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:57 2005
Subject: WANG WLTC up for trade
References: <199809302338.TAA17174@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <3612EB8F.7A0C@gamewood.net>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jason:
> >
> > This is just a guess, but I think that the 'blown capacitor' problem is
> > directly related to the 'TYCO' power supply. It's output IS going to be
> > _very_ noisy, when compared to computer grade supplies. The peak voltage
> > is probably what's killing things. I would look for an 18v supply.
> >
> > Chuck
> 
> That's what I thought.  I have 2 of the WANG WLTC's (that's why I'm trading
> one).  The other one has worked fine for about 1 year (and longer with the
> previous owner) with the Tyco supply.  The other keeps blowing.  I think
> it's being caused by some weak components elsewhere in the circuit (some of
> the other caps may be beginning to deteriorate).
> --
>          -Jason
> (roblwill@usaor.net)
>    ICQ#-1730318
> 
> PS>> Your date is 8 months off - it's set for January 30 1998.

Hi Jason:

Whoops --- didn't reset the calendar. Need to have it set before June,
for Netscape to stay usable. I'm running the 16 bit, JAVA enabled 'pre
release' copy --- they didn't replace it with a 'live' version --- just
with 4.0 Communicator and I can't stand the GUI of Communicator.


About the PS -- you are probably right in figuring that there is a
difference in the amount of 'filtering' before the capacitor that is
dying. Find that difference, and that will take care of the 'cap'
problem.

Chuck 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
He, who will not reason, is a bigot;       William Drumond,
he, who cannot, is a fool;                  Scottish writer
and he, who dares not, is a slave.              (1585-1649)
While he that does, is a free man!          Joseph P. 1955-
-----------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Davis  /  Sutherlin Industries   FAX # (804) 799-0940
1973 Reeves Mill Road            E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net
Sutherlin, Virginia 24594            Voice # (804) 799-5803


From jbixby at labwest.northatlantic.nf.ca  Tue Sep 29 17:45:38 1998
From: jbixby at labwest.northatlantic.nf.ca (Jamie Bixby)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:58 2005
Subject: Xerox 16/8
Message-ID: <36116312.1CC8B9D6@labwest.northatlantic.nf.ca>

I have recently came into position of an old Xerox computer that I
really do not know much about and was wondering if anyone out there
would be able to send me via e-mail any info that they may have on it.
The computer works and all but all that comes up is something about
tables and something about invalid drives.  If anyone out there has any
info on this computer I would greatly appreciate it.



From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com  Wed Sep  2 03:26:33 1998
From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:58 2005
Subject: Guardian article
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981002204852.8602A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35ED0139.E2A381AD@joules.enterprise-plc.com>

Sincere apologies (especially to Bill Whitson)  I replied to Sam's
request for the URL yesterday, after forwarding the message to myself so
that I could reply at home, and copied and pasted the Sender: header so
it went to classiccmp-owner@u.washington.edu and not classiccmp.

For those who want to look at the actual article here it is:

http://online.guardian.co.uk/one.html

I assume that it will be up until next Wednesday as the Online
supplement is published on Thursdays.

Regards
Pete


From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Wed Sep 30 18:14:25 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:58 2005
Subject: ESDI Cabling
Message-ID: <000801bdecc8$11a544e0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>



>> ESDI cables for PC's may or may not have a twist. The drive has a jumper
>> (usually marked drive 1 or 2) that must be set accordingly.
>
>I was under the impression that ESDI used 3 binary-encoded lines to
>select up to 8 drives on the same cable, and that there was no way just
>by swithing them round to have all the drives set to the same number.
>Certainly the ESDI drive I've just picked up has 3 binary-encoded
>selection links on the logic board. Of course for the special case of
>drive 1 and drive 2 (although not drive 0 and drive 1) you can get away
>with swapping over bits 0 and 1.


The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive only,
same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences between ESDI
and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details though.



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Wed Sep 30 21:08:32 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:58 2005
Subject: Can anyone identify this vax for sale on Ebay?
In-Reply-To: <199809292343.AA19297@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199810010208.MAA11206@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 07:43 PM 29-09-98 -0400, Megan wrote:


>Systems with 'DECstation mumble' should be MIPS, but if it
>says 'DEC nnnn' then it may well be an Alpha... for example, I
>have a DEC 3000/400 in my office.. this is an Alpha.

And of course DECsystems might be 36 bit (DECsystem-10 for example), 32 bit
(DECsystem 5500) or something else (wasn't there a DECsystem based on
either an -8 
or -11? for word processing). I also seem to recall that there were Intel
based DECstations too....

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 30 23:00:48 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:58 2005
Subject: als for it
In-Reply-To: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F5065BAB37@RED-MSG-43>
Message-ID: <199810010804.EAA13000@smtp.interlog.com>

On 30 Sep 98 at 9:19, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:

> To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00.  As I recall, we
> released 1.03 as the first version.
> 
> 1.03 was available only on 360K 5 1/4" and had no VGA support.  1.04 was the
> same as 1.03 except it was available only on 720K 3 1/2" and supported the
> PS/2 _exclusively_.
> 
> Kai
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:16 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Windows 1.0?
> 
> Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
> Windows 1.0?  Could you please get in touch with me? 
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:

 Sorry Kai, I usually tend to take your MS statements as gospel but in this 
case I've just been looking at the flash page and desktop of Windows 1.01
copyrighted 1984 and the files are dated 11-15-85. Unless this was a pirated 
version smuggled out of MS or an elaborate put-on it must be the first 
issue. It has a somewhat-Norton Commander style desktop but has most of
the utilities of the later version - notepad, write, calendar ,etc. and a 
pif-editor and win.ini. It comes on 5 360k disks with a set-up program that
builds a small Win.com and an much larger overlay binarie. As you mention it 
doesn't support VGA and the readme file has a lot of references to problems 
with AboveBoard (the Intel mem-expansion card). I've had it for a short while
and just now installed it on an 8580 PS2 running DRDOS. While I can get the
desktop the utilities hang with the familiar hourglass.
 I just tried it on my 5150 which has an Inboard card and uses the A20 
handler but only 1meg memory and also heavily configured and with Dos 5. It 
crashed leaving me at the prompt. Using my favorite shell CMFiler  got me to 
a blank screen before crashing . Likely memory related.   
  I'm going to try it on one of my 286s' using an earlier dos and with one of 
1.01's memory handlers emm.at or emm.xt (dated 7-30-85) in autoexec. I have 
of course no manual.
 I do run on, sorry.

ciao		larry

lwalker@interlog.com