From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  1 00:18:26 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <199808312332.AA03433@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980831215121.16244E-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

Hello Allison,
 
> I meant simply:
> 
> >>>B MKA0  <cr>
> 
> It could be any device from 0->7.

OK, I have tried >>>B MKAn for values 0->7 and ended with a quick 84 FAIL 
in each instance.

Likewise, I have tried >>>B MUAn for the same values with the same 
results, excepting n=0.  In that instance, I first see the 

-MUA0 

displayed and sometime later:

%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL              ^^^

In this case, however, ^ this value is different from the other instances. 
  
> < By the way, about how long should the boot from tape take, and what are
> < the TK50Z indications that it is 'doing its thing'?  I tend to assume
> < that the flashing green LED means that it is reading.
> 
> Assume slow, slow, slow.
> 
> < ??  1  00C0  0000.7004                *** WHAT IS THIS??? ***
> 
> Unterminated ethernet (BNC)?

Likely so, as it is not terminated.
 
> <    TPC      0202.0001       
> <       FFFFFF03 01000001 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFF
> 
> those ending on 05 are not occupied scsi addresses.
> 
> I believe the one that comes up ffffff03 is the tape, the 010000001 is a 
> new one on me.
> 
> All the other tests I'm ingoring right now.  Try the TK50 again with the 
> SCSI tape disconnected and see that the pattern is. It should all be 
> xxxxxxx05.  Also I think the default address for the tape is 7 not 0.

I tried it with the T 50 disconnected and the change was that the 
01000001 value became FFFFFF05 also.  With it connected but powered down, 
I got FFFFFF03 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF ...

Right now, I am trying again to boot from the TK50 after setting MUA0 as 
default via T 51.  I entered just 'B', and it has tried -DUA0, -MUA0, -ESA0, 
?54 RETRY, and is now on ESA0 again.  I'm not sure how long this will go 
on, but it looks like it is skipping MUA0 on this go round.  Yes, it is. 
It is cycling between -ESA0 and ?54RETRY.

Could the TK50 drive itself be faulty, or d\the tapes themselves?

						 - don



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep  1 00:54:58 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980831225458.038febb0@agora.rdrop.com>

Hmmm...  Ok, based on what information was forwarded to me (thanks, and you
know who you are!) the box is not all what it appears to be.  It does
appear that the box contains one set of original LISA parts (two eproms and
a state machine) which I'll have to figure out what to do with (lots of
folks wanted some, and now it seems I only have one) and a LOT of sets of
other parts.

Can anyone put meaning to these?

Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
           342-0134A  (???)
           342-0133A  (???)
and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)

My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep  1 00:21:05 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
References: <m0zDZO7-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35EB8441.E77F78E4@cnct.com>

Tony Duell wrote:

> The TRS-80 floppy drives are standard. Just about anything, including PC
> 360K and 720K drives will work. The cable is straight-through and you set
> the links to select which drive each one is (well, unless you use that
> crazy Tandy cable with the pins removed...

Tony, setting the drive addresses by pulling pins from the cable
might be the smartest thing Tandy ever did from the point of view
of somebody who did tech support for them for half a decade.  If
there'd been some way to put the termination resistor in the cable
it would have been even better.  Remember, the TRS-80 later called
the Model One really _was_ the first computer marketed to the
ignorant masses, long before "the rest of us" became a slogan.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From red at bears.org  Tue Sep  1 00:37:54 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: old magazines
In-Reply-To: <IIIIIBAGHILFHAAA@my-dejanews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809010133140.5595-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Tony Dellett wrote:

> I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine
> called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was
> in high school.

I don't have any of the magazines, but I did find another publication of
theirs in a pile of Kaypro docs I recently got.

"Kaypro 84 Theory of Operation", (c)1984 Micro Cornucopia. By Eric Roby.
Includes block diagram and schematic.

How serendipitous. (:

Actually, this gives me another idea.

More in a bit...

ok
r.



From red at bears.org  Tue Sep  1 00:50:05 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Docs archive
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809010137570.5595-100000@instinct.bears.org>


My collection of documentation has taken a dramatic upturn in the last few
weeks. It just occurred to me that I could have the very thing somebody's
looking for. Who knows?

So, in an attempt to be unselfish, I am going to catalogue the docs I have
available and make information from them available to anybody needing it.
Just ask. 

And, for the record, I'll try to be quicker than I have been getting that
CT Voice Processor manual copied and mailed to Sam. (:

I'll make the listing available at

http://www.slash.net/predicate/

Hope it'll be useful!

ok
r.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 02:12:50 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980831225458.038febb0@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901000957.2730A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:

> Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
>            342-0134A  (???)
>            342-0133A  (???)
> and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
> 
> My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
> to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
> deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...

The Apple //gs is circa 1986, but the Lisa is circa 1982/83.  So they are
most likely Lisa parts.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Sep  1 02:25:01 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <199809010725.RAA02916@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 04:26 PM 31-08-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:

>Use Linux instead.  Its far less picky about its hardware (and a whole
>lot more stable too, not to mention just a better OS).

I wouldn't be so sure. Linux will stress a system far more than
W3.11/WFWG/W95 will. I've experienced a number of systems that would quite
happily run BGP (Bill Gate's Products) that wouldn't reliably run Linux.
Typically the problem is memory that is marginal and is quite often seen as
compile errors (especially rebuilding kernels).

However, I must admit that I never have problems with stability of either
of linux or NT....

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 02:32:40 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901000957.2730A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 1, 98 00:12:50 am
Message-ID: <199809010732.BAA15289@calico.litterbox.com>

> On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:
> 
> > Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
> >            342-0134A  (???)
> >            342-0133A  (???)
> > and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
> > 
> > My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
> > to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
> > deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982...
> 
> The Apple //gs is circa 1986, but the Lisa is circa 1982/83.  So they are
> most likely Lisa parts.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 
I suspect these are apple2e upgrade roms.  The upgrades to make a 2e into an
enhanced 2e included 3 roms and a new CPU.  These may be the leftovers.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 06:29:24 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Pascal Micro Engines 
Message-ID: <199809010912.LAA08827@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> See my web page for a history of the UCSD P-System.
>>Hmm letmesee... only Pascal ?  What about the otherlanguages ?
> 
> I don't think I have any other languages for my Terak's
> P-System, and I don't know much about who developed those...
> Did UCSD develop any beyond Pascal?

At least Fortran and Basic - While the Basic compiler
never got wide usage, the Fortran was quite popular
among the number crunchers to get some of their
apps running on the A2


Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 06:50:19 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: MacXL -> LISA conversions and other things...
Message-ID: <ee4569ec.35ebdf7b@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-01 03:35:51 EDT, you write:

<< > On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote:
 > 
 > > Apple PN:  342-0135B  (eprom in some sets, masked rom in others)
 > >            342-0134A  (???)
 > >            342-0133A  (???)
 > > and...     370-6502   (a 6502 processor ?!?)
 > > 
 > > My first inclination without opening up any of my boxes (that I can't get
 > > to at the moment anywho) is Apple IIgs upgrades...  Can anyone confirm or
 > > deny this?  Most of the parts are dated 1982... >>

these are the chips needed to turn an original apple //e into an enhanced //e
model.  

david


From museum at techniche.com  Tue Sep  1 07:15:31 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: old computers
Message-ID: <199809011215.IAA13948@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Where are you located?

Regards,

Jon
---------------------------------

>We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them?
>Marvin J. Wakoff
>Wakoff, Andriulli & Co.
>mwakoff@njcpa.com
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
><META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>We have some old 486 computers that we
don't use 
>anymore. Can you use them?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Marvin J. Wakoff<BR>Wakoff, Andriulli &amp; 
>Co.<BR><A 
>href="mailto:mwakoff@njcpa.com">mwakoff@njcpa.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></
HTML>
>



From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 09:51:38 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Deja vu
Message-ID: <199809011235.OAA05144@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>Give me a break! 

>> Plus, I would guess some of the parts they are using are old.
>>I have the feeling cracked seals could once again be the
>>problem."

> Could it be because they don't know how to built a rocket today?

But maybe it's only because they do (and design) today
everything in the ISO 900x way - Documentation is everything,
personal engagment and responsibility is nothing. Just keep
in mind, 900x evolved from several rules inside the military/
supply industry to avoide any responibility for failure
(tecnical/cost).

Gruss
H.

(Sorry, to go off topic so fast, but I belive we need no
mysterious conspiracy to describe the world, we have more
than enough buerocracy and incompetence)



--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  1 10:19:20 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Ataris
Message-ID: <199809011302.PAA06632@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> At 10:31 PM 8/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Yeah, I know a number of musicians using STs in preference to more
>>modern PC VESA/PCI sound cards -- there is some program out of
>>Germany (dongle protected) that apparently has yet to be equalled on
>>Wintel platforms.

> Probably Cubase -- which I would be using if a) I had and money, b) I had
> any talent, and c) I had any time.  Cubase Audio for the Falcon (68030)
> offered (iirc) 8 or 16 track digital recording straight out of the box.
> Serious digital recording & MIDI for around a grand.  (Used Falcon, Cubase,
> and a big hard drive.)

> Also, there are ST clones available from (iirc) Canada and/or Germany with
> fast 68060 processors, tower cases, IDE and SCSI support, true
> multi-tasking, etc.  The Medusa, if I recall correctly.  

In fact there are 3 major NEW designs ST compatible computers in
Europe: Hades, Medusa and Milan (1 French and 2 German), and several
small size efforts based on refitet Falcon Boards.

The Milan for examlpe, the newest ST successor is available since
3 month. A 68040/33 MHz (060/80MHz within the next 3 Month), up to
512 MB RAM, 4 PCI, 3 ISA slots, 2 IDE ports, etc. Of course GEM
and TOS in ROM (or to be exact FLASH) - The Milan Computersysteme
GmbH ownes now all legal rights for the TOS/GEM ROMs - now in
version 4.5 (an enhanced 3.x like on the Falcon). Eventualy they
licenced the new PCI-BIOS to all other ST compatible manufacturers
virtualy for free. A multitasking OS is also includest

And the best of all: A basic configuration (Milan 040, 1 GB HD,
16 MB RAM, 2 MB Trio V64+ Video, Midi tower, PC-Keyboard, Mouse
and some SW) is just DM 1499,- (including tax) thats something
like USD 750,- (without tax). Incredible cheap - A Mac Performa
630 (040/33Mhz) is used still something like USD 400.

There an enormus power alive in the european ST family.

(oops, again off topic, but I still like ATARI :)

> And, while we're on the subject, anyone get to the World of Atari in Las
> Vegas last weekend?

Any URL for a report _with_ info ?

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep  1 08:38:51 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:23 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980901083851.00cd3ac0@pc>

At 04:26 PM 8/31/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote:
>
>> WinNT is quite stable.  I've been running it for years - since 3.0,
>> I think, under heavy daily software development. 
>
>Use Linux instead.  Its far less picky about its hardware (and a whole
>lot more stable too, not to mention just a better OS).

Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
pay for software.

I use Linux alot, but not for running Microsoft products or Windows code.
All my firewalls and source code servers are Linux.  The SGI version
of my product easily recompiles and runs under Linux and X Window.
We used it occasionally to use Checker and Electric Fence for debugging.

I've got hundreds of unsold CDs of a Linux-based 3D product in the 
basement, left over from when my company was acquired.  I'll gladly 
send a CD of it for free to anyone in the world who wants to send me 
a piece of old computer junk or software in trade.  See my web page
to see what I like.

(See a description of Megahedron 
at http://www.threedee.com/mhedron/mhedron.htm>, 
and download a free, fully functional demo for Win95/NT x86 and AXP, 
Linux and SGI IRIX from <http://www.threedee.com/demos/demos.html>.)

Frankly, Linux doesn't fit under the ten-year-rule.  We'll need to
wait until 2003 for that.  Sure, it might run on old PCs, though.

- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>



From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com  Tue Sep  1 11:18:55 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
In-Reply-To: <8749@ifrsys.com>
Message-ID: <199809011426.JAA26620@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com>

Guys:

I just snarfed some PC-jr modules:

2 - 128k Ram expansion
1 - Parallel printer module
1 - Speech Module

I cut open the speech and printer modules, and they seem to be
in pretty good shape, although I don't know if any of this 
stuff actually works.

If this is of any value to anyone, I'll offer it for trade for
something interesting (I collect mostly Motorola related stuff),
or some reasonable $$.

PLease reply via private e-mail.

Thanx,

Jeff




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 09:37:41 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
Message-ID: <19980901143741.9803.qmail@hotmail.com>





However, Linux can do some things on a 386 while NT will barely run.
I would expect that NT may have some bugs that cause, say, divide by
zeros on certain hardware. It's very difficult for Linux to have a
bug last very long. I have never had any problems running Linux but
I stil can't get it to install on some machines because of crappy
distributions. I'll do it manually soon enough...
>
>I wouldn't be so sure. Linux will stress a system far more than
>W3.11/WFWG/W95 will. I've experienced a number of systems that would 
quite
>happily run BGP (Bill Gate's Products) that wouldn't reliably run 
Linux.
>Typically the problem is memory that is marginal and is quite often 
seen as
>compile errors (especially rebuilding kernels).
>
>However, I must admit that I never have problems with stability of 
either
>of linux or NT....
>
> Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
> Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 
9479
>1999
> La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in 
the
> Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep  1 10:55:02 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980901083851.00cd3ac0@pc>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
 com> <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc>
Message-ID: <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]>

>Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
>pay for software.

At the moment I see this as being the chief problem.  There are a few
people that are willing to pay for stuff.  Part of the problem is the stuff
you get for free is better quality in a lot of cases that what you pay for.
In that respect it rememinds me of OS/2, every commercial App I ever bought
for OS/2 except the one game I got, was of worse quality than the free
stuff.

I buy software all the time for the Mac, but the only commercial software
I've for Linux, with the exception of the backup software has gone unused
except for a brief tryout.

Note, I'm not commenting on the Linux software you mentioned trying to
sell, as I've never seen or heard of it.

>Frankly, Linux doesn't fit under the ten-year-rule.  We'll need to
>wait until 2003 for that.  Sure, it might run on old PCs, though.

Now this statement has a problem, namely that we only need to wait till
2001 for it to fall under the 10-year rule (I've been actively running it
since January '91).  Got to agree that for the most part it's only
applicable to talk about it in respect to running it on old computers, OR
using it to tie old computers together (one of my uses).

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep  1 10:51:02 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
Message-ID: <199809011551.AA25779@world.std.com>

Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From franzese at att.com  Tue Sep  1 11:51:29 1998
From: franzese at att.com (Franzese, G R (Robert), NPG  NCIO)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Old Computer
Message-ID: <65A5FB4B6023D211AEA30000C059F2F94E5521@njb140po01.ems.att.com>

I have a Heath-Zenith Z90 CPM based computer, and am looking for a home for
it. Can you help?

Bob Franzese


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Tue Sep  1 12:08:01 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Old Computer
In-Reply-To: <65A5FB4B6023D211AEA30000C059F2F94E5521@njb140po01.ems.att.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980901100709.26395C-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Tell people where you are located.  If your next door somebody will
probably help you.  Don't live near Portland Oregon do you?

George Rachor

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Franzese, G R (Robert), NPG  NCIO wrote:

> I have a Heath-Zenith Z90 CPM based computer, and am looking for a home for
> it. Can you help?
> 
> Bob Franzese
> 



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 12:42:43 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
Message-ID: <19980901174243.2001.qmail@hotmail.com>

Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
test this thing before shipping it.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  1 14:20:57 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980831162623.9065A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.
	 com> <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc> <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]>
Message-ID: <35EC4918.D1272E7C@bbtel.com>

Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >Yeah, then there's that really big market of Linux users who love to
> >pay for software.
>
> At the moment I see this as being the chief problem.  There are a few
> people that are willing to pay for stuff.  Part of the problem is the stuff
> you get for free is better quality in a lot of cases that what you pay for.
> In that respect it rememinds me of OS/2, every commercial App I ever bought
> for OS/2 except the one game I got, was of worse quality than the free
> stuff.

The same uusally is true for BBS programs as well. One good example is Maximus
- free to general users and a great program with plentyu of support and in many
OS versions. Then take a pay BBS - ProBoard...Phillipe Lebeyart has promised a
32 bit OS version for 3 years now, and has finally dropped out of it without
even a good beta.

Not saying ALL free BBS programs are good or ALL pay ones are bad. Mustang puts
out a good product as well as the makers of PCboard. The problem is that when
you call it a pay bbs, you mean it's a PAY BBS, not cheap in the least - but
worth it if that's what you need.
Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org  Tue Sep  1 14:42:55 1998
From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <35EC4918.D1272E7C@bbtel.com> from Russ Blakeman at "Sep 1, 98 02:20:57 pm"
Message-ID: <199809011942.PAA13483@pechter.dyn.ml.org>

> Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
> over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
> Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.

Debian Linux is one of the newer distributions...

Behind Tamu SLS, Slackware, RedHat.  Ahead of Stallion, SuSe.

I've heard good things about it.

I still use mostly Slackware since I started with SLS.
However, I've installed RedHat and found it ok on most systems.

My favorite Unix install is FreeBSD.

Bill



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  1 15:07:58 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
References: <199809011942.PAA13483@pechter.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <35EC541D.7144FA0@bbtel.com>

Bill Pechter wrote:

> > Speaking of Linux....I just got a CD that says Debian LINUX  LUG/nut (with a 5
> > over the nut) made by SSC of Seattle. Anyone know if this is a LINUX OS disk?
> > Linux is new to me and I really haven't had time to dealve into it.
>
> Debian Linux is one of the newer distributions...
>
> Behind Tamu SLS, Slackware, RedHat.  Ahead of Stallion, SuSe.
>
> I've heard good things about it.
>
> I still use mostly Slackware since I started with SLS.
> However, I've installed RedHat and found it ok on most systems.
>
> My favorite Unix install is FreeBSD.
>
> Bill

I'll have to try it after I get some clear time in a little while. THX
--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Tue Sep  1 15:41:05 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


Hey, my Mac 512K is now working!

In fact, I'm using it to type this message.

Instead of going out hunting for more expensive connectors, I decided to
use a dead C64 for parts.  I pulled a male 9-pin D connector out of there,
and while I was doing so, I also noticed that the C64 cartridge connector
might be useful for repairing my TS1016 memory cartridge for my Sinclair.

I don't think I'll go to hell for cannibalizing a C64.  Besides, C64s are
cheaper than the useful salvageable parts inside.

Anyhow... I made a Macintosh to Amiga mouse adapter.  I got the two
X-direction wires switched around the first time, but it's all working
now.  I decided to use the lessons from the Laser 3000 and I poured hot
glue onto the wires after they were all soldered into place, so that the
thing is rigid, and then I wrapped it in electrical tape. :)

So my Macintosh is presently using a two-button 'Pregnant' Amiga mouse.  I
should try the three-button optical mouse, but what would be the use of
having TWO useless buttons? :)

This is also giving me a chance to try out that old 1200bps Apple modem I
pulled out of the Goodwill a couple of months back.  Obviously it works
pretty well!  But I'm not used to this level of slowness anymore.

I'm also not used to using Pico without arrow keys.  Who's idea was it to
use ^B, ^F, ^P, and ^N anyway?  Couldn't they have at least arranged the
keys in some sensible manner?

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out how to configure the Option
key to work as Control, too.

I don't know what I'll do if I have to use ESC for anything.

Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/

Anyhow, I'm glad to see this thing works.  Eventually I'll get around to
fixing the real Macintosh mouse.

Now... my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?

And what about that MacSnap SCSI board?  Do I need special drivers for it
or something?  I can't get it to see my Zip drive.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc




From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 15:58:23 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run)
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b211c755ca67@[207.220.32.111]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 1, 98 07:55:02 am
Message-ID: <199809012058.OAA19739@calico.litterbox.com>

OT - Linux apps.  I've bought 1 commercial linux app, and I strongly recommend
it to all you folk running Unix (or VMS, I think) on classic machines (woohoo,
a tiein back on topic. :) - it's called Dnews.  It runs on windows, Unix
, OS/2, Mac, Novell Netware, VMS, etc, according to their web site.

It's not cheap.  My two user licence cost me about 200 bucks... but it sets up
in 5 minutes.  Honest.  And it's solid and reliable, and I have no regrets
whatever.  It can do both IHAVE and multiple site suck feeding, lots of other
cool stuff.

Their web site is http://netwinsite.com.  Note that they also have VERY
nice educational discounts on some of their products, including a 100%
discount for universities and schools using Dnews for non-profit 
activities.  

My only problem with this software is what happens when the clock gets munged
(as happens on my somewhat elderly linux box from time to time) - if it
goes before the beginning of the license, you have to reinstall the license
to make it work again.  KEEP YOUR LICENSE INFORMATION HANDY. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 15:59:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Doug Spence wrote:

> I don't think I'll go to hell for cannibalizing a C64.  Besides, C64s are
> cheaper than the useful salvageable parts inside.

22 million C64s.  I don't think anyone will shed too many tears.

> I'm also not used to using Pico without arrow keys.  Who's idea was it to
> use ^B, ^F, ^P, and ^N anyway?  Couldn't they have at least arranged the
> keys in some sensible manner?

Maybe they developed it on a system with a Dvorak keyboard?

> Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/

If you never used PCs and didn't have to interface with systems that are
PC-based you wouldn't have need to complain.  As it is, most online
text-based apps assume a VT-100 style keyobard with CTRL and ALT keys (and
sometimes META too perhaps).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com  Tue Sep  1 18:00:34 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff 
In-Reply-To: <8756@ifrsys.com>
Message-ID: <199809012108.QAA28829@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com>

I don't think so.  These are add-on modules specifically
for the PC-jr.  I posted this because I'm pretty sure 
there are at least a couple of PC-jr fans out there.

Jeff

At 11:51 AM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?
>
>                                        Megan Gentry
>                                        Former RT-11 Developer
>
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
>| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
>| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
>| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
>| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
>| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> 



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 12:42:42 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
In-Reply-To: <35EB8441.E77F78E4@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Sep 1, 98 01:21:05 am
Message-ID: <m0zDuS7-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 17:46:04 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: PC jr Stuff
Message-ID: <ee47c7c3.35ec792c@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-01 11:54:05 EDT, you write:

<< Is PCjr stuff compatible with the IBM PC Convertible?
 
 					Megan Gentry
 					Former RT-11 Developer >>


no. totally incompatible. 


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep  1 17:55:51 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <8223357@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Doug Spence wrote:
my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?
--- end of quote ---

There are some adjustments you can do with plastic TV-tweaking tools (even demagnetized metal ones distort the display when they're near the board). The easy-to-reach ones are accessible from the solder-side of the analog board (there should be a white plastic sheet that tells you which controls are which). If those don't fix the problem, then you can cut away the blop of glue (more lessons from the L3K!) that's across the adjustment rings on the CRT yoke. Then you twist those rings (they have little "handles," sort of) and see what happens. However, the yoke IS dangerous, and of course you can't discharge it if you need to look at the screen, so watch out. Those rings are right near the Copper Wires o' Death.   :/

-- MB


From roblwill at usaor.net  Tue Sep  1 17:42:09 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
Message-ID: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net>

I used to have a Model 1.  I believe the logical answer for why Drive 0 was
at the beginning of the cable was do that it was the closest to the
computer, ant it would make it less confusing for novice computer users: 
Closest drive gets the boot disk.  

As for the drive with a resistor pack needing to be at the end of the
cable, I disagree.  I had a two-disk system, and both drives were
identical.  I know that, because when I first got the computer, I plugged
the drives in, turned them on, turned on the expansion box, and turned on
the computer, and they worked.  I tried the drives the other way (switched
them on the cable), and they still worked.  

I'm also sure that neither had the resistor pack, because when I got the
computer, it was supposed to have 4 drives.  There was, however, another
Model 1 with an expansion box, but no drives.  The person who was selling
the computers took drives 3 and 4 off of the one that I got, and put them
on the other one.  My friend bought it, and the drives worked on it, too.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
> Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 1:42 PM
> 
> It would have been a lot simpler if the connectors had been fitted in the

> opposite order so that drive 0 was at the end of the cable. Then the 
> terminated drive always would have gone at the end of the cable, and 
> would always have been Drive 0. No idea why they didn't do this.
> 
> -tony
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 17:37:23 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980901162426.698A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 1, 98 04:41:05 pm
Message-ID: <m0zDz3F-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Tue Sep  1 14:54:30 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: old computers
In-Reply-To: <000701bdd541$5ff193e0$1300a8c0@ibmp>
Message-ID: <199809012331.TAA22763@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:42:16 -0400
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Marvin" <mwakoff@njcpa.com>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       old computers
> X-To:          <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

> We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them?
> Marvin J. Wakoff
> Wakoff, Andriulli & Co.
> mwakoff@njcpa.com
> 
> 

Hi Marwin!

What exacty are these 486 boxens are?

branded or clones?  I'd like one if it has cache already maybe with
HD in it?

Thanks!

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From gram at cnct.com  Tue Sep  1 18:54:54 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
References: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35EC894E.753CC1E5@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
 
> As for the drive with a resistor pack needing to be at the end of the
> cable, I disagree.  I had a two-disk system, and both drives were
> identical.  I know that, because when I first got the computer, I plugged
> the drives in, turned them on, turned on the expansion box, and turned on
> the computer, and they worked.  I tried the drives the other way (switched
> them on the cable), and they still worked.

The Model One was incredibly forgiving about the presence of the
termination pack.  I saw them work reliably with the terminator
missing, on the wrong drive, or doubled up.  Three was right out.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  1 19:06:39 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: trs80model1
Message-ID: <199809020006.SAA21009@calico.litterbox.com>

Ooo, TRS-80 model 1.  The first computer that ever inspired lust in my heart
 - I don't suppose these can be had inexpensively...
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From roblwill at usaor.net  Tue Sep  1 19:10:19 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:24 2005
Subject: trs80model1
Message-ID: <199809020015.UAA17618@gate.usaor.net>

I got one with an expansion box, monitor, and 2 disk drives for $2.50.  I
also got a LOAD of software with it.  It was working fine 'till the monitor
blew.  I tried fixing it, and got it working, but it was a bit wavy.  Then
the P/S for the expansion unit blew, so I sold the whole deal for $20.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: trs80model1
> Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 8:06 PM
> 
> Ooo, TRS-80 model 1.  The first computer that ever inspired lust in my
heart
>  - I don't suppose these can be had inexpensively...
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 18:34:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed)
In-Reply-To: <199809012314.TAA04478@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 1, 98 06:42:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zDzwF-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  1 18:39:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <8223357@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 1, 98 06:55:51 pm
Message-ID: <m0zE00z-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep  1 19:54:26 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <980901205426.112@trailing-edge.com>

>at $ prompt type in drive name
>
>    $ DK0

What sort of media are you actually trying to boot?  Why do you think
it's got a valid boot-block?

>It now takes me back to the @ prompt.
>Type in 0g
>
>    @0g
>
>and I get 000002 back.
>I'm assuming that the '2' I get back is an error of some sort. Can anyone
>shed any light
>on this one for me.

Nope, it's not an error - it's the address the CPU stopped at.  It's
certainly the case that at address 0, there's a "HALT" instruction
(i.e. the contents are zero.)  This is very possibly because the boot
block you read into location 0 was all zeroes - i.e. not a boot block
at all.

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From jruschme at exit109.com  Tue Sep  1 20:16:36 1998
From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
In-Reply-To: <19980901174243.2001.qmail@hotmail.com> from Max Eskin at "Sep 1, 98 10:42:43 am"
Message-ID: <199809020116.VAA10326@crobin.home.org>

> Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
> for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
> test this thing before shipping it.

Interesting tidbit if you're looking for the old HITACHIA.SYS driver...

Apparenly one of Tandy's CD-ROM drives (CDR-1500, IIRC) uses the same driver
and is downloadable from their site.

<<<John>>>


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep  1 09:07:11 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
Message-ID: <35EBFF8F.5A66B13B@sprintmail.com>

Hello everyone,
    I am needing schematics for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
repairing it..
I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
damage..
I took it apart for a quick look expecting to find a burnt electrolyte
capacitor in the power supply but did not see any damage.. I am afraid
to power this unit up again for fear it will damage the mainboard.. Can
anyone help me this is one of the finest old computer I have ever owned
and I want to get it working again..

There must be someone that has schematics out there for it.. or maybe
someone can help me dx it..

Thank You.. Phil Clayton



From wpe101 at banet.net  Tue Sep  1 20:56:34 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP
Message-ID: <35ECA5D1.8EC5C991@banet.net>

Changing my ISP... Sprynet will be discontinued as of 23:59 30 Sep 1998.


Will




From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  1 21:53:32 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <006701bdd61d$185d3840$6753fea9@mainoffice>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:11 +1, "Hans Franke" <franke@sbs.de> wrote:

>>does anybody know who has right now the rights for
>>the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code?

>>Or more in general - is there any successor for
>>the Commodore Semiconductor divison ?

    I did some research on this about 18 months ago in preparation for
contacting Commodore's bankruptcy counsel to see about purchasing the rights
to Commodore's 8-bit technology.

    Even though I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan and Chapter 7
liquidation motion, and my corporate counsel looked at the docs, it's really
hard to trace the chain of asset transfers, since I could not find a
specific list of those assets sold; only broad "all intellectual property"
language was used.
    Collectively, Commodore's assets were sold to Escom (a German computer
manufacturer) for $14 million, $4 million of which realted to CBM and $10
million related to Commodore International Bahamas, Ltd. an affiliate of
CBM. The former CSG operation located at 950 Rittenhouse Road in Norristown
PA was purchased by GMT Microelectronics Corp., a company formed by former
CSG management in order to purchase the chip-making assets. The purchase
price was $4.3 million plus another $1 million to clear EPA liens. Assets
included the plant, equipment, other inventory items at that location. Last
year, I made a field trip to GMT and verified that they exist and are
operating out of the old CSG building.

    The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
(bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the old
8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>







From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  1 22:36:15 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP
In-Reply-To: <35ECA5D1.8EC5C991@banet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901203502.25082B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 wpe101@banet.net wrote:

> Changing my ISP... Sprynet will be discontinued as of 23:59 30 Sep 1998.

The proper method for subscribing is to send e-mail to

listproc@u.washington.edu

with the following in the BODY of the message:

subscribe classiccmp <yourname>

To unsubscribe:

unsubscribe classiccmp <yourname>

Again, in the BODY.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 22:41:25 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <19980827170343.0582a83c.in@mail.pressstart.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901224125.2fc781a6@intellistar.net>



At 04:29 PM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
> I see another rocket has blown up. 
> Looks like it's time to break out those
> desk top analog computers that got us
> into space the first time.

   Yeap, time to go back to using HP 9825s!  Seems like the fault in this
one was that they had the software for the OLD guidance system loaded!

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 22:51:59 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <87d2a7e2.35e60e7a@aol.com>>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net>

At 09:57 PM 8/27/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/27/98 9:03:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
>
>> 
>>  The Unimat (it's still being made) is a nice machine, but IMHO a little 
>>  small for the sort of things that I'm likely to need....
>>  
>
>i really dread continuing this off topic discussion, but american science and
>surplus (sciplus.com) sells the unimat 1 for $300. is it any good? 

  Not in my opinion,  they're a clever design but they're too small to make
anything other than pins and such and much too flimsy to make accurate
cuts. Weight & mass = stiffness = accurate cuts in a machine tool.  You're
much better off to find an old 6" lathe like a Logan, Atlas or a South
Bend.   I have a 12" lathe made in Mexico of all places but it's strong as
hell! Even the chip tray is solid cast iron.

  Joe

 





From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 23:11:41 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <199808281440.AA26604@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901231141.2fc78f9a@intellistar.net>

At 10:40 AM 8/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>"Max Eskin" <maxeskin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess
>>some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked
>>seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on
>>computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely
>>they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car.
>
>Actually, from the news report I heard, it was a new launch vehicle.
>The maiden flight... That doesn't contradict the idea it may be old
>technology, but supposedly the vehicle was one of a new series...

   It was a new vehicle.  But they used guidance software from the old
vehicle and the software could handle the inputs from the new system and
crashed. The rocket did the same shortly thereafter.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Sep  1 23:22:36 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <199808281816.AA09241@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980901232236.2fc78374@intellistar.net>

At 02:16 PM 8/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
>> Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution 
>> sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: 
>> freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent 
>> Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the 
>> invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by 
>> Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in 
>> interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living 
>> breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need 
>> interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped.
>
>I may be naive, but I understand that the satellite was owned by
>a connecticut company who was have it launched to replace the one
>which went bad earlier this year, knocking out millions of pagers,
>etc.

   Nope.  Wrong.  It was a spy satellite.  Years ago, most spy satellites
were launched from Vandenburg but more and more of them are being launched
from KSC.  It's supposed to take a year or more to replace the failed
communications satellite.  They've moved some some others around in their
orbits to provide temporary coverage for the failed one.

  Joe



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Tue Sep  1 23:30:17 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>



 Today I saved from the mythical Company Dumpster the following Stuff:


 DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.

 Printronix P 300 Line Printer  (from long-gone Prime Mainframe)

             Hewlett Packard :

 (2) 7914 disk drive units, one damaged in fall.

 An HP Systems cab with (1) 9144 and (2) 3000.

 (1) 2563A LIne Printer. (Very nice condition)


  Heads Up part:  I do not particularly want the HP stuff, I took it 
to be nice to the warehouse foreman (to whom it's just junk he has to 
move around).

  SoCal area HP collectors....  any Interest???  Anyone? I have more 
than my share of non-DEC orpans now...   heeellpppp....   


  WANTS: Unibus 9trk formatter card for Kennedy 9300, or preferably 
a TE16 and cards in SoCal or thereabouts.  Need vacuum column door 
for abovementione Kennedy... or a whole 'nother drive... I'm not picky.

  MINC stuff.   FSW Votrax (commercial Version) for PDP-11.

  An 11/750 w/magtape....  ?


   Cheers

  John



From aaronwa at telusplanet.net  Tue Sep  1 23:45:15 1998
From: aaronwa at telusplanet.net (Aaron Michael Walkhouse)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Deja vu
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980901224125.2fc781a6@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <199809020442.VAA05138@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

>-----Original Message-----
>From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
>[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Joe
>Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 4:41 PM
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: Deja vu
>
>At 04:29 PM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> I see another rocket has blown up.
>> Looks like it's time to break out those
>> desk top analog computers that got us
>> into space the first time.
>
>   Yeap, time to go back to using HP 9825s!  Seems like the fault in this
>one was that they had the software for the OLD guidance system loaded!

D'oh!  You'd think that after The Famous Ariane 5 Fireball that every launch
since would have that checked as part of the countdown.
That one was way too spectacular to forget.




From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  1 23:44:11 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980901214029.1497A-100000@crash.cts.com>


 
I decided to run a number of different tapes to try to determine whether
my TK50Z drive was defective or the tapes were not bootable.  Below are
the results of the tests.  Since in each case the results are somewhat
different, I conclude that the drive reads OK, and that the tapes are
suspect.  Does anyone have a different perspective?
 
                                              - don
=======================
 
ULTRIX APPLICATION TAPE
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-SCBINT2, PC = 00007000, PSL = 041F0008
 
 83 BOOT SYS
-DUA0
 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-SCBINT2, PC = 00007000, PSL = 041F0008
 
 83 BOOT SYS
?02 EXT HLT                   **** Infinite loop without the halt ****
    PC = 00002704
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> VMS APP TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> DEGAUSSED TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000001F6
 84 FAIL
>>> 
 
>>> 
 
>>> VMS 5.5 BIN TAPE
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> 
 
>>> b mu

 
-MUA0
 
%VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765
%VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2
 84 FAIL
>>>
 
Thats all folks!
 
 



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 01:25:48 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>
Message-ID: <v04011706b2129494d7e5@[192.168.1.2]>

> DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.

You sure this is an RC?  The only way it would be an RC from my
understanding is if it's a VAXstation II/RC.  Three of the slots in the
backplane have been filled with Rosen, so you can't use them.  It was DEC's
idea of a "Reduced Cost" system.  The RC should be in a BA23.  Of course I
guess it would be possible to hack something like that together, after all
I've pulled out the video card on mine so I can plug a RL02 controller in
(I've actually got a non-crippled backplane for it, just haven't bothered
to put it in).

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 01:28:41 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980901214029.1497A-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b212959714b4@[192.168.1.2]>

>
>I decided to run a number of different tapes to try to determine whether
>my TK50Z drive was defective or the tapes were not bootable.  Below are
>the results of the tests.  Since in each case the results are somewhat
>different, I conclude that the drive reads OK, and that the tapes are
>suspect.  Does anyone have a different perspective?
>

Don,
Do you have any tapes that say anything about Standalone backup?  I don't
know about Ultrix, but with VMS you've first got to boot Standalone backup
and the use it to load VMS.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 05:57:10 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809020840.KAA17685@marina.fth.sbs.de>

One more question:

Does anyone know any technical dokumentation for the
TI PC-234 printer and/or the TI-74 interface ? I couldn't
find any usefull trace in the web.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 05:57:10 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:11 +1, "Hans Franke" <franke@sbs.de> wrote:
>>>does anybody know who has right now the rights for
>>>the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code?

>>>Or more in general - is there any successor for
>>>the Commodore Semiconductor divison ?

>     I did some research on this about 18 months ago in preparation for
> contacting Commodore's bankruptcy counsel to see about purchasing the rights
> to Commodore's 8-bit technology.

>     Even though I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan and Chapter 7
> liquidation motion, and my corporate counsel looked at the docs, it's really
> hard to trace the chain of asset transfers, since I could not find a
> specific list of those assets sold; only broad "all intellectual property"
> language was used.

>     Collectively, Commodore's assets were sold to Escom (a German computer
> manufacturer) for $14 million, $4 million of which realted to CBM and $10
> million related to Commodore International Bahamas, Ltd. an affiliate of
> CBM. The former CSG operation located at 950 Rittenhouse Road in Norristown
> PA was purchased by GMT Microelectronics Corp., a company formed by former
> CSG management in order to purchase the chip-making assets. The purchase
> price was $4.3 million plus another $1 million to clear EPA liens. Assets
> included the plant, equipment, other inventory items at that location. Last
> year, I made a field trip to GMT and verified that they exist and are
> operating out of the old CSG building.

Did you talk to them ? Their website (http://www.gmtme.com/index.html)
presents only a few new products - noting of the old stuff.

>     The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
> (bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
> company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
> Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the old
> 8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
> Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
> knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.

I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
other soft ?

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 04:22:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902022043.26255A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
> toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
> manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
> the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
> other soft ?

Us.

(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  2 04:40:54 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: Free stuff in the UK
In-Reply-To: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Not me, this guy:

<<
Subject: 
            Free old computer bits
       Date: 
            24 Aug 1998 00:00:00 GMT
       From: 
            markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Mark Carroll)
Organization: 
            Linux Unlimited
 Newsgroups: 
            uk.local.southwest, uk.adverts.computer, cam.misc
 Followup-To: 
            poster


Free to anyone who can collect from St Austell, Cornwall:

Nice working dual-drive ICL computer system with CP/M disks and faulty
dot-matrix printer

8086 IBM PC 'portable' - heavy as a sewing machine! 20Mb hard drive,
works.
circa 1985?

Commodore stuff - working and broken Commodore PETs, nice dual PET disk
drive, maybe a couple of borken Commodore 64's...

BBC Micro with teletext adaptor - mostly working, but keyboard needs 
repair or replacement

cam.misc cross-post: if anyone in Cambridge wants any of this, I may
be able to arrange for it to be brought up for free.

-- Mark
>>




From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  2 04:48:38 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: COSMAC user needs help
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902044639.197E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

<<
Roger Lamson <rlamson@snds.com>
San Diego, CA USA - Tuesday, September 01, 1998 at 12:39:56

     We have some old 1802 source code that was not documented, 
     now we need to "reverse" engineer this code and develop 
     flow charts so that we can then implement the correct algoithms
     in a new processor.
     Is there a cosmac 1802 users group out there?
     Is there a development system, UT20 from RCA out there?
     Thanks
>>

I'd offer this guy my COSMAC ICE, but currently I have no way to verify
that it works (i.e., I haven't built my COSMAC ELF yet :-)

-- Doug



From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 08:05:31 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021048.MAA27242@marina.fth.sbs.de>

 
>> I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980)
>> toys - Almost all of the small (and even some of the big)
>> manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
>> the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any
>> other soft ?

> Us.

*g*
Toys R Us !

> (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

Still searching
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 08:22:59 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FWD: COSMAC user needs help
Message-ID: <199809021106.NAA17440@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> <<
> Roger Lamson <rlamson@snds.com>
> San Diego, CA USA - Tuesday, September 01, 1998 at 12:39:56
>      We have some old 1802 source code that was not documented, 
>      now we need to "reverse" engineer this code and develop 
>      flow charts so that we can then implement the correct algoithms
>      in a new processor.
>      Is there a cosmac 1802 users group out there?
>      Is there a development system, UT20 from RCA out there?
>      Thanks
> >>
> I'd offer this guy my COSMAC ICE, but currently I have no way to verify
> that it works (i.e., I haven't built my COSMAC ELF yet :-)

In fact, I still have a group of RCA tapes with an cross
assembler and other tools (for /360 compatible RCA Mainframe :)
- We just need one of these 1966..75 build dinosaurs.

Or to be more constructive, I'm still able to read and write
1802 Assm (or at least I belive to be - it's some years ago :).
Writing 'modern' Assemblers (Z80, x86, MIPS, ARM etc.) isn't
tragic at all. 

I'm just a bit far away from SD.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Wed Sep  2 07:36:10 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980902123610Z-131757@exchange01.hersheys.com>

I thought I was the only one who owned a TI-74. I'm looking for the
specs too. TI does mention some authorized service centers on their web
page for the TI-74. I haven't got a chance to contact any of them for
information.

Check out:  http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/7495.htm

Jeff Salzman
----------------------------
Zu denken ist gut, da=DF Sie sind gut

>
>Does anyone know any technical dokumentation for the
>TI PC-234 printer and/or the TI-74 interface ? I couldn't
>find any usefull trace in the web.
>


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Wed Sep  2 07:44:39 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FREE Texas Instuments VDT
Message-ID: <35ED3DB6.20F11080@bbtel.com>

I have just had laid on me a very nice condition (from a bank) texas
Instruments model 911 VDT video display unit. I only have the screen
unit, no keyboard. It has two jacks on back, one marked keyboard and one
marked controller (9 pin male d-sub)

FREE to anyone that wants it, you pay the shipping of about 30 lbs. I
need to hear from people soon on it or it will go dumpster diving and
not come up for air. As it is I still have the Visual 102 (complete) and
DEC VT100 (no keyboard) to GIVE AWAY and the last inquiring mind never
got back with me. These are also in great condition and working order
and available for the cost of shipping.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 10:35:11 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809021318.PAA20842@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I thought I was the only one who owned a TI-74. I'm looking for the
> specs too. TI does mention some authorized service centers on their web
> page for the TI-74. I haven't got a chance to contact any of them for
> information.

I have one, and 4 spare printers (fleamarket haul).

> Check out:  http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/7495.htm

Marysville, WA is kind of down under from Muenchen, Bavaria :)

> ----------------------------
> Zu denken ist gut, dass Sie sind gut
:))
Knapp daneben ist auch vorbei.

Altavista or German lessons ?

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep  2 09:27:06 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902022043.26255A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <199809020840.KAA17867@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980902092706.00c82e50@pc>

At 02:22 AM 9/2/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>Us.
>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

I wonder if there is legal precedent that might establish a reasonable
level of due diligence to determine that a copyright asset has indeed
been abandoned, and a legitimate method by which someone else could
be considered at least allowed to reproduce it but perhaps not claim
ownership of it.  In short, a process to follow that would establish
that something is on its way to becoming public domain.  Without
preservation now, the asset might be truly lost.

For example, I've contacted several authors of early computer books 
who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
floppies that had held his manuscript.

- John



From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Wed Sep  2 09:45:17 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: FW: Freebies available! Santa Fe, NM (I think)
References: <01bdd62d$f7f45820$df733bc6@pilar>
Message-ID: <35ED59FD.A1472A0@my-dejanews.com>

Looks like a good bunch of DEC freebies (at least to non-profit folks)
available in Santa Fe, NM (at least if the Santa Fe Institute moniker is
any indication). Please contact this fellow directly if interested.

-=-=- <snip> -=-=-

From: 
                 "Phillip Williams" <phdevaxvms@roadrunner.com>
       Newsgroups: 
                 comp.sys.dec
          Subject: 
                 its that time again
            Date: 
                 2 Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT
       Organization: 
                 Santa Fe Institute
            Lines: 
                 20
       Message-ID: 
                 <01bdd62d$f7f45820$df733bc6@pilar>
 NNTP-Posting-Host: 
                 dial531.roadrunner.com
         X-Trace: 
                 santaclara.santafe.edu 904712691 23951 209.12.73.131 (2
Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT)
   X-Complaints-To: 
                 abuse@santafe.edu
 NNTP-Posting-Date: 
                 2 Sep 1998 05:04:51 GMT
      X-Newsreader: 
                 Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
            Path: 
                
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.fiber.net!news-stk-2.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.128.37.8!feeder.lobo.net!feeder.swcp.com!fugu!SantaFe!not-for-mail




well its time to  go thru and sell or trade some stuff
RA92 qty 4
LN03Rs qty 2
DECstations 5000 qty 2
VT1300 qty 2
VT240 with modem (wow 1200 bps) qty 2
RX33 qty 4
BA200 with  16 megs KA650, QDSS, KDA50,CXA16,TK70,  2 RA70s with
OpenVMS 5.5-2 DECwindows/DECwrite/C/BASIC/FORTRAN/KERMIT
Once again if you are a none profit org and can arrange for pickup its
free and if you are a Homeless vet center then I'll pick up the price!!!

phillip
AfterMidNight BBS
56k connection with v90 with 30 megs of disk space and free web pages

IF YOU KNOW OF ANY VET THATS HOMELESS OR JUST DOWN AND
OUT WE OFFER FREE RESUME AND INTERNET ACCESS.


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 10:05:26 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: <v04011706b2129494d7e5@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809020739.A19410-0100000@netcom6>



On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> > DEC uVAX II/RC in 4' cab with Cipher Digital horiz. 9trk drive.
> 
> You sure this is an RC?  The only way it would be an RC from my
> understanding is if it's a VAXstation II/RC.  Three of the slots in the


  (clip)

  That's what the little badge says above the switches....  I 
haven't had time to look in the computer yet...  the back panel has 
the ethernet port and 8 serial connectors, and ribbons for the 
Cipher. I didn't get the model of the cabinet, but it's 4' high and 
the uVax is mounted on rack rails on it's side under the magtape. 
Nothing alse in the cabinet but the power controller.


  Any HP afficianados out there...  I am really curious to see what 
thes various things do... I have noknowledge of the computing side 
of HP, though I have used (and own) tons of their test gear.

[ HP 7914 disk, 3000s, etc...]


   Cheers

John



From fmc at reanimators.org  Wed Sep  2 09:57:11 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Today's haul and HP heads-up..
In-Reply-To: John Lawson's message of Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
References: <Pine.3.89.9809012132.A22447-0100000@netcom14>
Message-ID: <199809021457.HAA24441@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

John Lawson <jpl15@netcom.com> wrote:
>  (2) 7914 disk drive units, one damaged in fall.

I'm thinking these are largish floor-standing units (about half
washing-machine size) good for about 120MB.  They could have cartridge
tape drives in them too, do they?

>  An HP Systems cab with (1) 9144 and (2) 3000.

9144 is an HP cartridge tape drive.

A 3000 in that sort of cabinet is probably a Series 37 or Micro 3000,
a little departmental system good for about eight terminals.  Should
have a key for the front panel and I hope it's there because
fabricating it could be a problem (it is a small metal strip with
indentations drilled in but not through its larger faces).

>  (1) 2563A LIne Printer. (Very nice condition)

300LPM printer, could be serial or HP-IB or maybe parallel (with a
50-pin telco connector) though I only remember the parallel on its
bigger faster cousins.  If serial, it would be usable with other
things; I think it speaks something like PCL but certainly not the PCL
of the many-DPI printers.  Used to use one as a remote serial printer
hung off a 3000 and it was very reliable.

>   SoCal area HP collectors....  any Interest???  Anyone? I have more 
> than my share of non-DEC orpans now...   heeellpppp....   

I'm not quite SoCal (a little bit north of San Jose) and won't be able
to make it down there for a little while.  Plus IDDD (I Don't Do DEC)
and so don't have any of the stuff you're interested in for a swap.
Also I have two 3000/37s of my own.  So I won't be hurt if someone
else gets 'em, in fact that's part of the reason I am writing this
message, to help other folks down there figure out what this stuff is.

-Frank McConnell


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 12:42:16 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021525.RAA05564@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>Us.
>>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

> I wonder if there is legal precedent that might establish a reasonable
> level of due diligence to determine that a copyright asset has indeed
> been abandoned, and a legitimate method by which someone else could
> be considered at least allowed to reproduce it but perhaps not claim
> ownership of it.  In short, a process to follow that would establish
> that something is on its way to becoming public domain.  Without
> preservation now, the asset might be truly lost.

There are one possible way, but it isn't very safe - see below.

> For example, I've contacted several authors of early computer books 
> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
> floppies that had held his manuscript.

Just loosing _one_ media doesn't mean loosing copyright.
If one wants to get rid of his rights, he has to proclam
this in a prominent and usefull manner - like anouncing
it in a state publication or any kind of aprobiate publication.
Like puting an anouncement in a sourcefile.

It's exactly the reverse way as claiming an title for a book
or movie - If you want to avoide that someone else will
use a title of a planned book, you have to anounce it in a
aprobiate manner - i.e. in Germay you till put an add in the
'Boersenblatt des Deutschen Buchhandels' - a 'news'paper
for publishing companies and book traders.

For this case (reprinting a book), there are two and a half
steps to perform:

First try to get knowledge of the holder of rights. Basicly
easy, since book rights are always originated by the author.
Find the author, and ask if there are current licences. Apply
for a licence. If he has no futher interest, he may offer it
exclusive and unlimited for just a beer or two. Try to get a
written statement.

Geting licence doesn't include source material like disks
or scripts - if they are lost, you still have to key in
every letter again ...

Second if you can't locate the author, or any other people
possible owning actual licences or able to legitimate their
rights, you are free to copy and redistribute the work.

The hard term is 'unable to locate the owner' - judges
(at least in Europe and especialy the US) put up very
high bars to cross. You have to show that you did anything
possible (Adds, writing to former publishers, companies,
familie, friends, etc. searching directories).

Now you can start to reproduce the book - BUT in your best
interest you should take step twoandahalf: Opening a closed
account (I don't know the exact US term - its an account
where yo ujust put in money, but never take it back - possibly
managed by a lawyer) for the author/owner of rights. Now
'just' pay the royalities into this account.

If a beliveable owner of rights shows up, you just have to
grant him access to this account. A possible 'new' royality
agreement has to be made at this point. If the owner of
rights disagrees with the summ (you have to open your books
for double check sales and business regarding this licence)
don't grant the access and wait for his court move.

As long as your amount of saved royalities is reasonable
any court decision inf favour or the owner wouldn't grant
more, so be aware and don't put the royalities to low,
becaus if the judge thinks so, the summs can be enormous -
at leat within the strange US system.

This method (step twoandahalf) can (and will) be used on
any matter regarding intelectual properies - books, music
('legal' bootlegs use this to avoid geting dumped in the US)
or patents (If company A won't give company B a licence, B
could try it via twoandahalf - as long as they are able
without support from A :)

The trick is that you are NOT stealing the property - you
are willing to pay, but some strange thing might hinder you.

(This is even at wartime true, which leads to the very strange
fact where Germany took a way more civilizated position than
the US - Germany payed royalities even during the war for
tecnologie used - including weapon tecnologie - while the
US just declared any German patent or Trademark non existent.
Some things can caus dizziness when thinking about)

Ok, back to our book project: If you get the permission
from the author (like Sheldon Leemon) you're fine - don't
forgett to ask if theres still a licence, maybe even a
exclusive one for a publishing company, since in this
case you still have to look for the (original) publisher.

But regarding the KIM, with his chaotic past, a simple
solution isn't available.

Gruss
H.

Oh, and don't forgett: Even a non profit copying action
is forbidden. so if a C= group, for example, make copies
of the C64 ROM to distrimute within their group and friends
FOR FREE, they are subject to pay royalieties.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 12:45:26 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021528.RAA28157@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>>Us.
>>>(Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

> There are one possible way, but it isn't very safe - see below.

Addendum: I'm not a lawyer - just some publishing knowledge.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Wed Sep  2 12:18:11 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: HELP! (Tektronix 4052)
Message-ID: <9808029047.AA904781994@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

The last step before I cart my Tek to Santa Clara for the VCF:  
Insurance.

Insurance companies don't like things without a replacement value.  I 
have asked around how much to insure it for, and Dr Dooijes (curator of 
the Computer Museum in Amsterdam) has suggested $3000.

Anyone else have any ideas:

Are there any other 4052s around?
What might be the market rate?
Whom else can I ask?

Also, anyone have any suggestions about how to pack it for the flight?  
Large box with lots of foam seems to be the best idea so far.  Unless I 
can get hold of a Tek carrying case...

Philip.



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:03:17 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980902170317.20309.qmail@hotmail.com>

I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 12:07:18 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809021048.MAA27242@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902100222.16818B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> > (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)
> 
> Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
> bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

Not necessarily.  I think some of this old technology could arguably be
considered in the public domain, with companies having folded, owners
having died, etc.  Case in point: the IMSAI 8080.  I think whatever
vestiges of ownership of the IMSAI 8080 have been lost to time after the
transformation into ComputerLand, the subsequent bankruptcy and then the
re-birth of ComputerLand as Vanguard.  This is what I gather after having
read the book _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_. 

Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 12:13:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980902092706.00c82e50@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902101009.16818C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
> floppies that had held his manuscript.

This is something I hadn't considered.  The authors of some of the most
classic of computer books (I could name a bunch of Apple ones, like
_Benath Apple DOS_ for one) should be contacted and asked to hold onto
their original manuscripts if they still have them.  While it wouldn't be
a total loss if they are thrown out, since at least the book survives in
thousands of coipies, it would be nice to have the original manuscript
around in digital form to be preserved for millenia. 

I wonder if this is something we could turn into a concerted effort, a
drive to root out old computer book authors, or if anyone is really
interested.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  2 12:38:12 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Sep 1, 98 10:51:59 pm
Message-ID: <199809021738.KAA02219@goodnet.com>

> At 09:57 PM 8/27/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 8/27/98 9:03:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
> >
> >> 
> >>  The Unimat (it's still being made) is a nice machine, but IMHO a little 
> >>  small for the sort of things that I'm likely to need....
> >>  
> >
> >i really dread continuing this off topic discussion, but american science and
> >surplus (sciplus.com) sells the unimat 1 for $300. is it any good? 
> 
>   Not in my opinion,  they're a clever design but they're too small to make
> anything other than pins and such and much too flimsy to make accurate
> cuts. Weight & mass = stiffness = accurate cuts in a machine tool.  You're
> much better off to find an old 6" lathe like a Logan, Atlas or a South
> Bend.   I have a 12" lathe made in Mexico of all places but it's strong as
> hell! Even the chip tray is solid cast iron.

Where would you recommend finding a good deal on one?  How much do they
tend to go for?

-- 
  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
 (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
 __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:38:26 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
References: <19980902170317.20309.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35ED8292.33F2@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Yes the RS-232 is fully complient.. I use mine all the time..
Goto www.TRS-80.com  you will find out all you need there..
Even a Model 100 user's club on the internet..

Phil...

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
> came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
> Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
> if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
> and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
> modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
> cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
> like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep  2 12:39:06 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000
In-Reply-To: <v04011707b212959714b4@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980902103310.18218B-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

Zane, 

> Do you have any tapes that say anything about Standalone backup?  I don't
> know about Ultrix, but with VMS you've first got to boot Standalone backup
> and the use it to load VMS.

No, I do not, and did not know that.  VMS is what I am trying to load.  
The other tapes (Ultrix Application included) were ones that I used 
trying to determine if there was any problem with the TK50's ability to 
read.  Where could I get one of those?

						 - don


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  2 14:53:14 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809021736.TAA28597@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> (Caveat: until someone comes forward to claim legitimate ownership.)

>> Jup, but acording to your ridiculous justice this means
>> bancrupcy for the next 3 generation to anyon of 'Us'.

> Not necessarily.  I think some of this old technology could arguably be
> considered in the public domain, with companies having folded, owners
> having died, etc.  Case in point: the IMSAI 8080.  I think whatever
> vestiges of ownership of the IMSAI 8080 have been lost to time after the
> transformation into ComputerLand, the subsequent bankruptcy and then the
> re-birth of ComputerLand as Vanguard.  This is what I gather after having
> read the book _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_. 

In terms of copyright there is no thing like
'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
property) is always originated by natural persons,
And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
return to the original Author/Inventor.

> Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
> Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Don't know, but they are not free.

Sad but true.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From mbg at world.std.com  Wed Sep  2 12:55:53 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: TI-74 / PC-234 Problem
Message-ID: <199809021755.AA25291@world.std.com>

I also have a TI-74, with all of the rom cartridges, and the
PC interface... I have not yet bought the printer for it...

If you use AltaVista search for "TI-74", you should get the TI
web site, which will point you to another site, which is where
I actually purchased the stuff from.  I also got some manuals on
the TI-74... they have RAM cartridges, ROM cartridges, the
printer, the TI->PC interface (and software) and some other
stuff as well.  They also have stuff for the TI-95 (ProCalc)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Wed Sep  2 13:35:34 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: WORLD OF ATARI '98...WALKING THROUGH THE PARK AND
  REMINISCING
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980902105711.570fa652@ricochet.net>

At 07:29 PM 8/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You bet I was there...what an incredible time! It was a 
>fantastic event and well worth enduring the 110? heat!

Cool!  Next Saturday our local Atari club meeting will be centered around
stories from the folks that went.  

>Don Thomas has posted an excellent account 

Saw that and a couple of others; it did sound like fun!

>I myself will be posting pictures as soon as they are scanned...

Excellent!  Let us know when they're up!  


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Wed Sep  2 14:00:05 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980902142448.1155A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


Immediately following my success with the Mac yesterday, I got to work on
'fixing' my portable '286 box with LCD display (which I think is _barely_
classic).

The cable leading to the display had had three of its wires pulled out,
and I figured that this was the reason for the very weak and grungy
display.

I managed to solder little bits of wire into the holes and solder the
stray wires from the cable onto those, but then I realized that I couldn't
plug the thing in anymore as the holes (from the underside) had filled
with solder. :/

And I also realized that my solution was a bad one because the protruding
wires would short against the metal frame that holds the LCD panel in
place.

So I used the connector from the C64 keyboard instead.

Anyway, I got the cable rebuilt.  I've tested it with the multimeter and
all the wires make contact and go to the right places.

But now I can't get any kind of display from the LCD panel.  It doesn't
light up at all.  It looks like it's totally dead.

I put a monochrome display adapter card in the machine, and it will boot
up with that and display fine on a monochrome monitor.  So the machine is
_mostly_ OK.

I'm not sure the power supply is OK, though.  It squeals now.

So basically, I've turned an ill-looking display into a dead display, and
for some reason a healthy power supply is now sounding sick.

Bleah!

Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
in the same scanline.

I don't know where I'll go from here.  I'm just taking a breather
before continuing.  I wanted to be rebuilding the TS1016 RAM pack by now
instead of still messing with this damn PC. <s>

Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
juice going through there.  My thumb and forefinger are still tender.  But
the display was still working at that point, and looking much sharper than
it had been.  But the machine wouldn't close up properly because the
connector was too thick and that's why I went back in today, just to
reverse the cable so that the big fat Commodore connector was on the
inside instead of on the LCD panel end. (Which meant pulling the connector
apart and rebuilding it the other way, just so it would fit in.)

I haven't crossed any wires, I haven't plugged anything in backwards, and
I haven't dropped anything into the machine, so I don't know what I've
done wrong.

<s>


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From museum at techniche.com  Wed Sep  2 14:00:18 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: Anybody want this stuff?
Message-ID: <199809021900.PAA02936@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi Scott,

Just checking whether you're still trying to sort things out or what not?

Regards,

Jon


>Jon Healey wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> 
>> I think I'd be interested in the xerox and the Amstrad.
>> Are they spoken for yet?
>> 
>> Where are you located?  I'm in NH.
>> 
>
>Neither are claimed at the moment. In the case of the Xerox, it has a
>lot of documentation and will be quite heavy to ship I think. Give a
>couple of days to sort out the stuff and I will be back in touch with
>you.
>
>I am located in Rocky Mount, NC.
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kirk Scott
>scottk5@ibm.net
>



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 14:04:36 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <19980902190437.28684.qmail@hotmail.com>





if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.
>
>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:
>
>> who've since tossed their floppies with the original manuscript.  
>> Without this, we're back to scanning and OCR and proofreading.  
>> They'd thought that absolutely no one was interested.  For example, 
>> Sheldon Leemon, author of "Mapping the C-64", tossed his old Atari 
>> floppies that had held his manuscript.
>
>This is something I hadn't considered.  The authors of some of the most
>classic of computer books (I could name a bunch of Apple ones, like
>_Benath Apple DOS_ for one) should be contacted and asked to hold onto
>their original manuscripts if they still have them.  While it wouldn't 
be
>a total loss if they are thrown out, since at least the book survives 
in
>thousands of coipies, it would be nice to have the original manuscript
>around in digital form to be preserved for millenia. 
>
>I wonder if this is something we could turn into a concerted effort, a
>drive to root out old computer book authors, or if anyone is really
>interested.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Wed Sep  2 13:36:58 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <980902143658.62@trailing-edge.com>

>Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
>Roberts?  WHat happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

Which rights?  The name?  The design?  The PC board layouts?  The
documentation?

I would think the only things left to worry about are the name and
any copyrights that might exist on the PC artwork.  I doubt the
actual design is protected at all - it's almost exactly what you'd get
if you just took one of the Intel 8080A databooks and copied the CPU
implementation.  Why would anybody want to
make an exact clone of the original design anyway?  A couple
months after the introduction of the Altair there were hundreds
of garage-based businesses selling much better designed S-100
CPU's and peripherals!

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 2081


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 14:09:37 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:25 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <19980902190941.7507.qmail@hotmail.com>





HGC _could_ stand for Hercules Graphics Controller. I don't know.
The display... are you sure you haven't shorted anything with solder?
Have you tried using a VOM in O mode to directly stimulate the display?
Touching it to various pins should get various lines to appear.
>'fixing' my portable '286 box with LCD display (which I think is 
_barely_
>classic).
>
>The cable leading to the display had had three of its wires pulled out,
>and I figured that this was the reason for the very weak and grungy
>display.
>
>I managed to solder little bits of wire into the holes and solder the
>stray wires from the cable onto those, but then I realized that I 
couldn't
>plug the thing in anymore as the holes (from the underside) had filled
>with solder. :/
>
>And I also realized that my solution was a bad one because the 
protruding
>wires would short against the metal frame that holds the LCD panel in
>place.
>
>So I used the connector from the C64 keyboard instead.
>
>Anyway, I got the cable rebuilt.  I've tested it with the multimeter 
and
>all the wires make contact and go to the right places.
>
>But now I can't get any kind of display from the LCD panel.  It doesn't
>light up at all.  It looks like it's totally dead.
>
>I put a monochrome display adapter card in the machine, and it will 
boot
>up with that and display fine on a monochrome monitor.  So the machine 
is
>_mostly_ OK.
>
>I'm not sure the power supply is OK, though.  It squeals now.
>
>So basically, I've turned an ill-looking display into a dead display, 
and
>for some reason a healthy power supply is now sounding sick.
>
>Bleah!
>
>Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
>It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 
9-pin
>port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
>picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different 
frequency
>or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
>craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous 
times
>in the same scanline.
>
>I don't know where I'll go from here.  I'm just taking a breather
>before continuing.  I wanted to be rebuilding the TS1016 RAM pack by 
now
>instead of still messing with this damn PC. <s>
>
>Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some 
exposed
>wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that 
much
>juice going through there.  My thumb and forefinger are still tender.  
But
>the display was still working at that point, and looking much sharper 
than
>it had been.  But the machine wouldn't close up properly because the
>connector was too thick and that's why I went back in today, just to
>reverse the cable so that the big fat Commodore connector was on the
>inside instead of on the LCD panel end. (Which meant pulling the 
connector
>apart and rebuilding it the other way, just so it would fit in.)
>
>I haven't crossed any wires, I haven't plugged anything in backwards, 
and
>I haven't dropped anything into the machine, so I don't know what I've
>done wrong.
>
><s>
>
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
>http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Sep  2 14:27:27 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <19980902190437.28684.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980902142727.00c69900@pc>

At 12:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.

- John



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 15:01:27 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980902200128.221.qmail@hotmail.com>





I said it was _like_ a model 100, not an actual 100. It's very
different, but the idea is similar.
>Yes the RS-232 is fully complient.. I use mine all the time..
>Goto www.TRS-80.com  you will find out all you need there..
>Even a Model 100 user's club on the internet..
>
>Phil...
>
>Max Eskin wrote:
>> 
>> I was just given one. It's a little Tand  Model 100-like thing, it
>> came with a user's guide and some kind of book for learning BASIC.
>> Unfortunately, the manual is rather selective. Could someone tell me
>> if I can use the serial port on the back for RS-232 communications,
>> and what are the pin equivalents? If not, is there any kind of
>> modification that could be made? Also, does anyone have any software
>> cartridges for it they would be willing to send me? What is assembly
>> like for this processor? Does anyone have any comments about it?
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 15:04:24 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <19980902200424.18425.qmail@hotmail.com>





These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
to go back and edit something.
>>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.
>
>Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
>shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
>book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
>reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
>as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
>Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.
>
>- John
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  2 12:33:36 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
In-Reply-To: <35EBFF8F.5A66B13B@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 1, 98 10:07:11 am
Message-ID: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 15:50:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809021736.TAA28597@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902134939.16353A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
> property) is always originated by natural persons,
> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
> return to the original Author/Inventor.

What happens if the author/inventor dies?


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  2 15:52:47 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: WORLD OF ATARI '98...WALKING THROUGH THE PARK AND  REMINISCING
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980902105711.570fa652@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980902135158.16353B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> At 07:29 PM 8/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >You bet I was there...what an incredible time! It was a 
> >fantastic event and well worth enduring the 110° heat!
> 
> Cool!  Next Saturday our local Atari club meeting will be centered around
> stories from the folks that went.  

What was the attendance?  Anyone have an actual number?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com  Wed Sep  2 13:23:40 1998
From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: FWD: Free stuff in the UK
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902043514.197C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35ED8D2C.792F4CCD@joules.enterprise-plc.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> Not me, this guy:
[Snip]
> 
> Free to anyone who can collect from St Austell, Cornwall:
> 
Damn, Damn, Damn  - I have just got back from a holiday in Cornwall -
this stuff would have made the 330mile (each way) journey even more
worthwile :)

Regards
Pete



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  2 16:10:58 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: re RAMs
Message-ID: <199809022110.PAA28067@calico.litterbox.com>

For anyone who was wondering, those RAM chips I was offering for free found a 
home in a computer at the Red Cross courtesy of Russ.  Thanks.  Beats the heck
out of throwing them out. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 16:14:35 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809022114.OAA27791@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
>> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
>> property) is always originated by natural persons,
>> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
>> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
>> return to the original Author/Inventor.
>
>What happens if the author/inventor dies?

I just went through a huge ordeal similiar to this in trying to get 
Resnova's NovaServer (BBS server) put into the public domain.

The following, of course, does not constitute legal advice.  ;-)

To quote Peter E. Converse:

---Start Quote---
When you say that ResNova "no longer exists in any way shape or form", 
that
may mean several different things.  It may mean that ResNova has gone
through a Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation, that its corporate charter has
been allowed to lapse, or merely that its operations have been abandoned. 
Each of these possibilities leads to several different outcomes.

First, if ResNova is bankrupt, any intellectual property (like NovaServer)
would pass temporarily through the hands of a bankruptcy trustee, receiver
or debtor-in-possession.  Then, this person probably would have attempted
to sell this intellectual property to satisfy the debts of the company.  
If
ResNova is still going through a bankruptcy, you could contact the trustee
or receiver by checking federal Bankruptcy records.

Second, if ResNova's corporate charter has been allowed to lapse (which is
what I think you mean, if I had to bet), that corporation still owns the
intellectual property in question, even though it no longer exists under
the laws of the state of incorporation (subject to my comments about
abandonment below).  You might be able to arrange to purchase or license
the IP by contacting the officers of the company.  To find out who they
are, you could contact the Secretary of State of the state in which 
Resnova
was originally incorporated.  This would probably be the State of its
primary operations, or, alternatively, Delaware, NY or Calif.  Any
Secretary of State will tell you, over the phone, the name of the
registered agent (prob an attorney or officer of the company) who could
help you arrange a purchase or license.

Third, if ResNova's shareholders, officers, directors and creditors have
all disappeared, you might be able to treat this intellectual property as
having been "abandoned."  Unfortunately, if you do so, you may be
subjecting yourself to legal liability for unlicensed use of the IP in the
event that any of these folks turn up later.  The burden in court would be
placed on you to prove that you made a rigorous effort to find the owners
and that they really had abandoned the asset.  I would suggest making
thorough investigations as described in the above two paragraphs before
simply assuming that the asset has been abandoned.

Of course, you should understand that this information is merely general
and is not legal advice rendered as to specific facts.  You should 
probably
consult an attorney before taking any actions in this matter.
 
Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.  I represent a number 
of
software developers, consultants, consumer product marketers and IT
professionals.

Good Luck.

Peter E. Converse
The Law Offices of Peter E. Converse
8 South Michigan Avenue
Suite 2600
Chicago, Illinois  60603
(312) 214-0661
(312) 332-0600 Fax
convers@interaccess.com
---End Quote---

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 05:19:06 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer
References: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35ED1B9A.EE4E1B24@sprintmail.com>

Hi Tony,
    I did not see anything unusual on the screen before this happened, however
tonight I will look closer and let you know..
I am planning on disconnecting the power sullpy from the rest of the components
and see what happens if I power it up alone..
I will look very close at the yoke assemble also..

Thanks for your interest.. Very kind of you..
Back to you later...

Phil Clayton

Tony Duell wrote:

> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >     I am needing schematics for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
> > repairing it..
> > I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
> > had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
> > condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
> > was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
> > damage..
>
> My first guess (not having seen the machine or the schematics) is that
> the flyback (EHT) transformer is breaking down. Was there any change to
> the image on the screen (flicker/change in size) when the problem occurred?
>
> Examine the flyback carefully looking for cracks/burning
>
> -tony





From rhblake at bbtel.com  Wed Sep  2 17:31:55 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: FREE to a good home (you pay shipping)- Terminals
Message-ID: <35EDC75A.416DB9E@bbtel.com>

FREE (yup, just shipping is all) to a good home....temrinals! One, two
or all.

     1 - DEC model VT100, no keyboard but great shape and working. About
32 lbs shipping weight

     2 - Visual model 102 complete with keyboard, great shape and
working. About 35 lbs shipping

     3 - Texas Instruments model 911VDT, no keyboard. Great shape and
working. About 28 lbs shipping

     NOTE....They go to that terrible place that many other unwanted
machines go soon - the DUMPSTER OF
     DEATH if I don't get a firm response before long. I've held back
from dumping them as I know someone out
     there has a use for one or all of them. Shipping will be calculated
by USPS parcel post rates from me in zip 40144
     to you and prepayment by money order or cashier's check is
required. I will ship the same or next day as I
     recieve payment. If you want any of these contact me by direct
email SOON.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep  2 06:20:00 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
References: <m0zEGmq-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com>




> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >     I am needing help for an Osborne 01 computer, or some help in
> > repairing it..
> > I just purchased it last week and was using it for about 30 minutes (It
> > had not been used for some 13 years).. Worked perfectly and is in mint
> > condition.. Then all of a sudden a crackle and smoke poured out..  It
> > was still working but I quickly turned it off to save it from further
> > damage..
>
> My first guess (not having seen the machine or the schematics) is that
> the flyback (EHT) transformer is breaking down. Was there any change to
> the image on the screen (flicker/change in size) when the problem occurred?
>
> Examine the flyback carefully looking for cracks/burning
>
> -tony

I checked the Flyback and whole Video assembly , it looks fine on inspection..

  I pulled the whole unit apart and I now know its the Switching Power Supply..

1980 by Astec components LTD.

The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
saw smoke..

The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
leaking out)
The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP

On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..

I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
from my friends"


So What do you think?
Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?

Like I said the unit was still working when I shut it down, it was smoking like

crazy tho..

It looks like the standard voltages +12, -12,  Com, +5 noted on the circuit
board..

Can anyone help...???

Thanks for your help...

Phil Clayton





From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  2 19:02:16 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980902142448.1155A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 2, 98 03:00:05 pm
Message-ID: <199809030002.RAA01765@goodnet.com>

> Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
> It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin

Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original 
mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
It does use a 9-pin connector.

> port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
> picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
> or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
> craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
> in the same scanline.

Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?
> 
> Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
> wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much

Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.

-- 
  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
 (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
 __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Wed Sep  2 19:52:27 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980902170259.3a0f92b0@ricochet.net>

At 02:31 PM 8/26/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and
>invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without
>owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would
>own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for
>the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders
>like this?

Well, reloading is a popular sport -- you take used cartridges, cast your
own bullets (heat metal, pour into molds), and combine them with as much
gunpowder as you like.  Modifying the casing wouldn't be too hard, I
imagine for anyone with any basic metalworking skills, nor would altering
the bullet mold.  

As for computer cases, early models were probably handmade; it's not that
hard.  Take a run to your local Tap Plastics store.  You can pick up all
kinds/sizes of plastics that can then be made into just about anything.
Also, model car/plane/boat shops probably have stuff to let you work with
plastics.

Even metal cases aren't that hard; I have a friend who built, as one of his
first projects, an amazing set of cabinets/shelves for his Land Rover out
of aluminum.  Some simple tools are required, but nothing earth-shattering.

I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  2 20:33:50 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Deja vu
References: <199809020442.VAA05138@mxu1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35EDF1FE.29A2A9AC@cnct.com>

Aaron Michael Walkhouse wrote:

> D'oh!  You'd think that after The Famous Ariane 5 Fireball that every launch
> since would have that checked as part of the countdown.
> That one was way too spectacular to forget.

I forget if I've plugged the book here before (I know I've plugged
it every bloody where else and given away a dozen licensed copies
as well), but for a _good_ description of a trivial software glitch
screwing up a launch, I recommend the Prometheus Award winning
novel _Kings of the High Frontier_ by Victor Koman.  It is now out
in a limited edition hardcover (I bought one at Worldcon), but the
HTML version is still available from <http://www.pulpless.com/>.
Yes, the book is unashamedly libertarian (as am I).  But imagine
the sight if the Solid Rocket Boosters either side of a NASA
shuttle happened to light off a fraction of a second apart.  (SRBs
can't be throttled the way liguid-fueled engines can).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  2 20:38:18 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
Message-ID: <00be01bdd6db$889526e0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

I remember some laptop that had a special key combination to switch from LCD
to external monitor. You could not have both at the same time. Look for
extra feature keys (usually accessed by pressing a special FN key).
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Rutledge <ecloud@goodnet.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: LCD woes


>> Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
>> It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
>
>Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original
>mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
>mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
>with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
>with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
>It does use a 9-pin connector.
>
>> port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
>> picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
>> or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
>> craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous
times
>> in the same scanline.
>
>Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?
>>
>> Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
>> wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
>
>Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.
>
>--
>  _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM
ecloud@goodnet.com
> (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web:
http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
> __) | |
\__________________________________________________________________
>* X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics *
>



From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  2 20:39:46 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <00cb01bdd6db$bdaf3500$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

So what is it? Any model number on the machine?
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <maxeskin@hotmail.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: TI Compact Computer 40


>
>
>
>
>I said it was _like_ a model 100, not an actual 100. It's very
>different, but the idea is similar.




From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  2 21:44:53 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
References: <3.0.16.19980902170259.3a0f92b0@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <35EE02A5.3ABB094@cnct.com>

Uncle Roger wrote:

> I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
> wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
> first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
> you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
> vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)

Back in my youth, Ma Bell (a monopoly at the time) displayed at a
travelling show (where I first played tic-tac-toe against a computer)
a demo model of their upcoming standard phone with the dial in the
handset -- but the case wase was transparent plastic so you could 
actually see the transisters and relays and such inside the thing.
They never produced such things for customers, and by the time other
companies could sell clear telephones the circuitry was modern and
therefore boring.

The Tandy folks from Fort Worth used to bring a Tandy 6000 to the
computer shows in LA (which I naturally had to help with, as they
rarely brought anybody from central tech support and I was the closest
competent available) with a big chunk of the case cut out out and a
piece of plexi showing it off.  I'd have loved it if the entire case
made of plexi was an option.  Especially since one of my local
customers (a company that was making the cases for Tandy, desired to
computerise, and sent a dozen folks to several classes I taught
before they actually bought the machines) would have made them, and I
might have been able to snarf a few manufacturing seconds.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From esther95 at gro1.telmex.net.mx  Wed Sep  2 21:47:42 1998
From: esther95 at gro1.telmex.net.mx (Esther Vargas Astudillo)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <01bdd6e5$38ec3160$24a7e994@gro1.gro1.telmex.net.mx>

Please 


send me a imagen of minicomputers

-------------- next part --------------
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From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep  3 01:57:42 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809030441.GAA03171@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

>>Such grave pronouncements.  You might as well argue that they
>>shouldn't throw away their drafts.  Fact is, they do.  Once the
>>book is in print, they've got a real copy.  What compelling 
>>reason did he have to save the old floppy version?  It's not
>>as if he thought there was any demand for a second edition.
>>Computer books come and go in six weeks these days.

> These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
> successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
> compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
> to go back and edit something.

First, not everybody is collecting everything :)
Second, for a sequent edition you will use the
medias from the publisher, or jur write the
changes in one copy and give it to the publisher
(And if you're very successful, you just tell him
via phone wat to change :).

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep  3 01:57:43 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <199809030441.GAA03206@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> In terms of copyright there is no thing like
>> 'lost ownership' Copyright (and other intelectual
>> property) is always originated by natural persons,
>> And if any kind of licencee (company, temopral owner)
>> is closed and no legal successor is available the rights
>> return to the original Author/Inventor.

> What happens if the author/inventor dies?

It comes to inheritance.

In fact, even copyright vanishes, but not before at least
50 Years.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From russmiller at jps.net  Thu Sep  3 01:57:17 1998
From: russmiller at jps.net (Russ Miller)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM!- Prototypes
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980902235716.006b60cc@jps.net>

Dave Hick's fantastic HP calculator museum has an interesting page and
images of design studies and prototypes of a few HP desktop calculators
which illustrate how realistic some prototyping methods can be.  

http://www.teleport.com/~dgh/designs/designs.htm

>
>As for computer cases, early models were probably handmade; it's not that
>hard.  Take a run to your local Tap Plastics store.  You can pick up all
>kinds/sizes of plastics that can then be made into just about anything.
>Also, model car/plane/boat shops probably have stuff to let you work with
>plastics.
>
>Even metal cases aren't that hard; I have a friend who built, as one of his
>first projects, an amazing set of cabinets/shelves for his Land Rover out
>of aluminum.  Some simple tools are required, but nothing earth-shattering.
>
>I was talking to someone recently (Rax?) about building a custom
>wood-glass-and-brass case for a computer.  Not that hard to build your
>first one in a plywood case, then worry about the production cases once
>you've got financing.  (Of course, just make sure that cable going to the
>vax behind the curtain doesn't show! 8^)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>
>Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/
>
>
>



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Thu Sep  3 04:10:06 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD update
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903044229.24937A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>


All is OK!  Even the power supply is quiet now.  I think it may have been
squealing only when the full load wasn't being drawn (I had both drives
disconnected) and only for a few seconds after power-up.

Anyway, the problem with the LCD panel was really nothing.  The new
connector simply needed to mate with longer pins to make proper contact.
The pins at the back of the LCD panel were long enough, but the ones
inside the machine were not.  I ground down the connector a little bit and
it works now.

I also fully disassembled the casing to get at the variable resistor that
controls the "contrast", because it was so dirty that I couldn't get a
stable picture at all.  I used an aerosol contact cleaner on it.

I did find a loose paperclip during the disassembly.  Hopefully it didn't
do any damage while it was in there.

The picture is now stable and clear.  I used to get corrupted characters
and strange lines on the display at seemingly random times, but I used the
machine for at least six hours straight tonight and it never came back.
The screen also used to be sensitive to movement and its position, and now
it doesn't care if I grab it and flip it up while I'm using it.  I'm
guessing that several other wires were in the process of working loose.

The screen is just naturally hard to read, but not nearly as hard as it
was.  The contrast has to be adjusted according to the user's viewpoint,
and it's not always possible to clearly see the whole screen at once
(especially up close).

At some contrast settings, dark patches appear on the screen.  Also, areas
of the screen react to what is being displayed on other areas with a kind
of ghosting, which can be a little distracting when the contents of the
screen are busy.  I'm guessing that this is normal for this technology.

One really cool thing is that the characters appear to "float" on the
screen.

I think I can confirm a 1988 date for both construction and purchase.
Most of the parts with identifiable date stamps that I looked at had date
stamps of late '87 or the first few weeks of '88.  Also, the contents of
the hard drive which I never inspected very thoroughly (because of the
screen) included personal and business (including many local businesses 
that I know) tax records from 1987 through to 1991.

And yes, I did delete files of that nature as I found them.  There were
approximately 16MB worth of accounting files, and only software that would
be useful in accounting, so clearly this was an accountant's machine.

I'm a bit disturbed by the implications of finding such information at a
garage sale.

There is something strange about the display, BTW.  It has
externally-accessible dip switches.  Four of them.  And there's a note
taped inside the panel that certain pieces of software require a certain
switch setting.

I attempted to install GeoWorks 1.00 and found that its installation
program is one of the programs that needs that switch setting. :/

And no, I didn't get GeoWorks running, because I don't have a
PC-compatible mouse. :/ (I picked up GeoWorks at the Goodwill this week.)

Anyway, I'm still up because I've been watching the news all night.
<shudder>  Had it not been for that, I probably would have reported back
with my success a lot sooner.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Thu Sep  3 04:17:45 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809030002.RAA01765@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903051215.24937B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> > Anyway, the machine has a special card in it for driving the LCD panel.
> > It is labeled "LCD & HGC CARD".  What is "HGC"?  It has an external 9-pin
> 
> Probably "Hercules Graphics Card" - Hercules made the original 
> mono graphics card that was cloned a lot and most cards for driving
> mono monitors are that variety.  It gives you 720 x 4?? dots
> with each pixel being on or off.  As well as being compatible
> with the original IBM PC mono video card (which had only text mode).
> It does use a 9-pin connector.

OK, thanks, that's probably it.  The fact that it didn't work with my
monochrome monitor may not mean much, either, as there is an external
toggle switch on the display card as well as four externally-accessible
dip switches.  I did try the monitor with both toggle positions, but I
didn't play with the dip switches.

> > port on it and I tried plugging the monochrome display into it, but the
> > picture was all distorted so I figured it was using a different frequency
> > or something.  The cursor comes out about an inch wide, and none of the
> > craracters are recognizable, possibly just from overwritten numerous times
> > in the same scanline.
> 
> Hmmm are you sure the monitor is OK?

Yes, it works fine with two other machines and three monochrome cards that
I've tried.

> > Oh, and BTW, I electrocuted myself last night when I touched some exposed
> > wiring going to the LCD panel.  It surprised me that there was that much
> 
> Is it backlit?  Fluorescent backlights use relatively high voltage.

Yes, it's backlit.  I think that's why it looks like the characters are
floating. :)

> -- 
>   _______                      KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM   ecloud@goodnet.com
>  (_  | |_)   Shawn T. Rutledge    on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
>  __) | | \__________________________________________________________________
> * X window * virtual reality * knowledge base * ham radio * electronics * 

Thanks.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From gim at hitec-uk.com  Thu Sep  3 04:19:34 1998
From: gim at hitec-uk.com (Grant I Mitchell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <80256674.0031B4F1.00@hitec-uk.com>




Tim,

The drives are Diablo 30 drives, and the disks (there are several), are
marked
PDP-11 system disk, and PDP-11 Backup disk. The previous owner told me when
I
picked them up, that they should boot. Last night, I tried playing around
with
it again, and tried to access the disk status register (round about
17400(8) from
memory, but I'm at work just now and it was late last night, so my terrible
memory
can't be sure...). It seemed to contain 000000 (from typing @17400/). :(
Which
doesn't, as far as I can tell from the assorted docs, look to promising for
the state drive.

An other potential problem is that I believe a clock pulse was generated by
a
CAMAC crate attatched to it. I've got the crate, but cannot attatch it at
present
because it needs a 110V supply, and I don't have my 110V transformer just
now.

My house is a 240V only zone at the moment, or at least as long as these
machines stop tripping the surge detector!. I need to install a more
forgiving
fuse box.

Thanks for your help.

Grant

>>at $ prompt type in drive name
>>
>>    $ DK0
>
>What sort of media are you actually trying to boot?  Why do you think
>it's got a valid boot-block?
>
>>It now takes me back to the @ prompt.
>>Type in 0g
>>
>>    @0g
>>
>>and I get 000002 back.
>>I'm assuming that the '2' I get back is an error of some sort. Can anyone
>>shed any light
>>on this one for me.
>
>Nope, it's not an error - it's the address the CPU stopped at.  It's
>certainly the case that at address 0, there's a "HALT" instruction
>(i.e. the contents are zero.)  This is very possibly because the boot
>block you read into location 0 was all zeroes - i.e. not a boot block
>at all.




From scottk5 at ibm.net  Thu Sep  3 05:31:11 1998
From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Anybody want this stuff?
References: <199809021900.PAA02936@chmls05.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <35EE6FEF.B6@ibm.net>

Jon Healey wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Just checking whether you're still trying to sort things out or what not?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon
> 

Hi Jon,

Still sorting and the recent hurricane complicated matters by damaging
part of the roof where the computers are stored. Will let you know when
they are ready to go asap. Thanks for your patience.

Kirk Scott
scottk5@ibm.net


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 09:13:11 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: TI Compact Computer 40
Message-ID: <19980903141312.12257.qmail@hotmail.com>







>So what is it? Any model number on the machine?
>Francois
The model is Compact Computer 40, abbreviated as CC40. It's a small
9 X 5.5 " unit, gray, with a full keyboard including numeric keypad,
and a one-line 30-character display. It has 8k RAM and 2k ROM (I
think) and BASIC and a monitor in ROM. A cartridge port, HEXBUS port
for plugging in cool stuff which I don't have (like a tape drive),
and AC adapter port. Runs on 4 AA batteries. Has lots of math
functions as well. Comes with a manual, mostly about BASIC, and anothe
r book called 'Learn BASIC: A guide to programming the TI CC40'
It's made in 1983. There is an ad for it that runs '20 pages of notes,
a thesis, algebraic formulas. Can you make a date at eight?
Turn to your TI Compact Computer. By 7:14 your TI CC40(tm) has your
notes filed, the changes made in your thesis, and all those formulas
worked. The CC-40 goes where you go -- the classroom, library,
anywhere. It's cordless, compact, sophisticated. It gives you much of
the problem solving power of Apple or IBM personal computers. But
it's a fraction of the size and price..." the ad goes on to say
6K RAM, 34K ROM, which doesn't agree with my manual. This thing
runs at 2.5 Mhz,BTW. So, if anyone has any cartridges or accessories
(that tape drive sure looks nice!) that they would be willing to
sell/trade/give to me...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From workapulo at my-dejanews.com  Thu Sep  3 11:28:49 1998
From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: PT SOL Arrives
Message-ID: <BDLDHCAKDIODIAAA@my-dejanews.com>

Well, my new (old) PT SOL machine showed up (after nearly being lost by UPS) last night.

Of all the classic machines I have gathered, this one was by far the best kept of the bunch.

Bob Stek, the docs showed up (thank you) the same time. How nice :)

Tony


-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums


From van at wired.com  Thu Sep  3 12:32:31 1998
From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HE HE HE
In-Reply-To: <01bdd6e5$38ec3160$24a7e994@gro1.gro1.telmex.net.mx>
Message-ID: <v03110702b21482ff03df@[206.221.206.170]>

I have a nice 10MB file of a PDP-1...should I send it to her? ;)




>     Please      send me a imagen of  minicomputers  


........................................................................

                                          @
                                         /
                                        /  Shift Lever
                                    (D)/
\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan ===
BNL            |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired!
- ------------]=[]@----------------------@                  415.276.4979
Trans-      ]  ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655  (B) ? (C) Rear Connection
mission     ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
            ]  ]]
71 ------------]         web superstation of the stars...
van burnham				http://www.futuraworld.com
production manager
wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states
........................................................................
for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com
van@wired.com  van@futuraworld.com  pingpong@spy.net  vanburnham@aol.com




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 12:47:30 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HE HE HE
Message-ID: <19980903174730.27291.qmail@hotmail.com>




C'mon guys, be nice. It's probably someone doing a school report or
something. www.chac.org/chhistpg.htm has plenty of links to pictures.
Try the PDP ftp archives, they have some good pics.
>I have a nice 10MB file of a PDP-1...should I send it to her? ;)
>
>
>
>
>>     Please      send me a imagen of  minicomputers  
>
>
>........................................................................
>
>                                          @
>                                         /
>                                        /  Shift Lever
>                                    (D)/
>\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan 
===
>BNL            |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired!
>- ------------]=[]@----------------------@                  
415.276.4979
>Trans-      ]  ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655  (B) ? (C) Rear 
Connection
>mission     ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
>            ]  ]]
>71 ------------]         web superstation of the stars...
>van burnham				http://www.futuraworld.com
>production manager
>wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united 
states
>........................................................................
>for immediate emergency wireless access send email to 
van-page@wired.com
>van@wired.com  van@futuraworld.com  pingpong@spy.net  
vanburnham@aol.com
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ecloud at goodnet.com  Thu Sep  3 13:23:34 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980903051215.24937B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 3, 98 05:17:45 am
Message-ID: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>

> OK, thanks, that's probably it.  The fact that it didn't work with my
> monochrome monitor may not mean much, either, as there is an external
> toggle switch on the display card as well as four externally-accessible
> dip switches.  I did try the monitor with both toggle positions, but I
> didn't play with the dip switches.

I've seen cards that could do both CGA and HGC, and maybe even EGA modes.
They had DIP switches as you are describing.

As for some software requireing a switch to be flipped - maybe it also
has a way of emulating CGA via HGC, or something.  (CGA-mono is slightly
lower res (640x200 I think), and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games 
on my hercules card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe
your card can do this in hardware.)

-- 


From red at bears.org  Thu Sep  3 13:37:51 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809031434510.31131-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games on my hercules
> card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe your
> card can do this in hardware.)

I remember that utility. SIMCGA.EXE (or .COM?) I'll bet you could still
find it in one of the MS-DOS Shareware archives.

ok
r.



From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca  Thu Sep  3 14:06:49 1998
From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Digest?
Message-ID: <012f01bdd76e$02c548e0$844c8bc0@mgb119>

Is this list available in digest format? If so - how does one subscribe?




From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Sep  3 14:24:31 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <199809031924.AA24321@world.std.com>

>The drives are Diablo 30 drives, and the disks (there are several), are
>marked PDP-11 system disk, and PDP-11 Backup disk. The previous owner
>told me when I picked them up, that they should boot. Last night, I tried
>playing around with it again, and tried to access the disk status
>register (round about 17400(8) from memory, but I'm at work just now and
>it was late last night, so my terrible memory can't be sure...). It
>seemed to contain 000000 (from typing @17400/). :( Which doesn't, as far
>as I can tell from the assorted docs, look to promising for the state
>drive. 

17400 can't be a disk address...  The physical address range for I/O
page addresses is 17760000-17777776.  On some machines this can be
shortened to 760000-777776, and on some, even further to 160000-177776.
(Though if you are referencing the I/O page from within a program, you
must use a 16-bit value in the range 160000-177776, and the memory
management must either be off, or setup such that the mapping registers
for that range point to the actual I/O page).

Have you examined memory beginning at 0 to see if there has been any
code actually loaded from the disk?  (Deposit something like zero or
177777 in a bunch of locations beginning at address 0, and after trying
to boot, check those addresses... if they are different from what you
entered, then that might indicate the disk has actually done something)

BTW - what sort of DEC disk do your disks emulate?  That would help
in being able to tell you what address you could twiddle with, and
what toggle-in boot code to try...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep  3 15:49:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: HTML in email (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980903134858.18211A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


This is not relevant to vintage computers but it is relevant to people
who, unbeknownst to them, are sending HTML in their e-mail.  Hope it helps
someone.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:45:55 +0000
From: Mark <mark_k@iname.com>
To: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
Subject: HTML in email


Anyway, here are some instructions on how to turn off this mis-feature. Telling
senders of HTML messages how to do this will allow them to turn the HTML off.

Regards,
-- Mark Knibbs
mark_k@iname.com


Removing HTML from Internet Mail and Outlook Express.
=====================================================

Internet Mail
-------------
Go to the Mail menu, select Options.
This brings up a set of tabs. The first tab is marked Send.

Near the bottom of this is a section Mail Sending Format.

There are two bullet holes (radio buttons), set this to Plain Text
instead of HTML.

Outlook Express
---------------
Go to the Tools menu and select Options. click the second tab which is marked
Send. Here you have both mail sending format and news sending format.

For both put the bullet point next to Plain text and not HTML.



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Thu Sep  3 15:51:22 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

Don't know if I'd actually classify this as a 'rescue', since probably the
worst that would happen would be that the gear would end up buried in my
warehouse, but...

A couple of items that could use a new home.  (just cause I don't have
time to get to them at present)  I won't attach a specific price to either
but would like to see either a little $$ or something interesting in trade
for them.  (see the 'wish list' on my web pages for ideas)

Both items are considered to be in 'as-is' condition.  I've not had time
to try to fire them up or do any check out since they came to me.

Either would need to be picked up as they are too large (&/or) heavy to be
practical to ship economically.


1) Cypher 9 track tape drive.  800/1600 bpi, 125IPS transport. Just the
drive, no cabinet.

1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
top bay.


Drop me a note if interested.  Note: my ISP is having problems with their
dial up lines (darn US West anyway!) so my access to email is a bit
sporadic at present...  So don't panic if I don't get right back to you...

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 15:54:05 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: apple2GS wave keyboard
Message-ID: <199809032054.OAA02963@calico.litterbox.com>

Hi gang.  Just to let you know, the Adesso TruForm (AEK-606) wave style
keyboard works great with the apple2GS.  For those of you like me with
big hands and wrists that don't like bending sideways during typing, this
thing is a godsend.  US$89.95 at CompUSA, probably cheaper in MacMall.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Thu Sep  3 15:57:51 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
Message-ID: <980903165751.21c@trailing-edge.com>

>17400 can't be a disk address...  The physical address range for I/O
>BTW - what sort of DEC disk do your disks emulate?  That would help
>in being able to tell you what address you could twiddle with, and
>what toggle-in boot code to try...

174400 is the RL02, and it's vaguely possible that this is the CSR
he meant to type.  He describes the disk packs as being Diablos, and
RL02 packs do have the same form factor.  But if this were the case, 
then the device he should be trying to boot from would be DL0:, not 
the DK0: he's been trying so far.  

177400 is the RK05, and this is possible too.

Of course, we've so little information
that this is all just shooting in the wind!

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Thu Sep  3 16:05:46 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: LCD woes
References: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809031434510.31131-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <35EF04A9.9318985A@bbtel.com>

R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:
>
> > and I used to have a TSR for playing CGA games on my hercules
> > card...it just omitted some dots around the edges.  But maybe your
> > card can do this in hardware.)
>
> I remember that utility. SIMCGA.EXE (or .COM?) I'll bet you could still
> find it in one of the MS-DOS Shareware archives.

It's SIMCGA4.ZIP and I have it if someone needs it...just drop me a direct
email and I'll attach it post-haste.

--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 12:35:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 2, 98 07:20:00 am
Message-ID: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 12:56:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
In-Reply-To: <80256674.0031B4F1.00@hitec-uk.com> from "Grant I Mitchell" at Sep 3, 98 10:19:34 am
Message-ID: <m0zEdck-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 16:16:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23
In-Reply-To: <980903165751.21c@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Sep 3, 98 04:57:51 pm
Message-ID: <m0zEgkE-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From manney at lrbcg.com  Thu Sep  3 11:46:50 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
Message-ID: <01bdd75a$72b169e0$1428a2ce@manney>

I do, I think. Lemme check.

>Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
>for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
>test this thing before shipping it.




From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:10 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: old computers
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903111946.4cbff826@ricochet.net>

At 06:49 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Marvin, this came out as an unviewable HTML and PLAIN text document on my
>end that PINE's external viewer couldn't handle.  When I replied it came

Eudora assumes it's an attachment and puts it in a file; I end up with
hundreds of stupid little files called "reoldcom" or whatever.  PITA.  

>this problem of posting their messages in HTML.  I think you guys should
>be able to configure your mail program to send only unencoded plain text. 

On the other hand, this particular Marvin (not the one we're used to) is a)
probably a CPA and thus perhaps not truly computer literate (why else would
he be dumping perfectly good 486's?) and b) not subscribed to the list, so
unless you BCC'ed him, he didn't get it.  (Probably wouldn't get it anyway.)

Keep in mind, folks, that the list is echoed to a web site.  If someone
does a search on, say, "Altair", they're going to find several of the pages
with list messages.  They'll then send a message to the address listed (the
list) asking how much their Altair is worth, or what have you.  Probably
without checking the date, btw, which is why we occasionally see messages
like "I see you are searching for a rare commodore 64 power supply; I can
sell you one for $199 plus shipping" when no one's been looking for a C PS
for months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:11 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903121310.4b0747b6@ricochet.net>

At 12:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, you wrote:
>if an author is proud of his book, he won't trash the manuscripts.

Not necessarily.  He may have hundreds of the printed copy, and not think
that the original manuscript, on an 8-bit Atari floppy, for example, is
worth keeping around.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:05 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903110443.6d5f2006@ricochet.net>

At 06:30 PM 8/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Max Eskin wrote:
>> 
>> Who _is_ Jerry Pournelle?
>
>Columnist in Byte, "The User's Column", later renamed "Computing
...
>good science fiction writer and half of the best science fiction

Well, I'm not so crazy about him as a sf writer, but I did feel that his
columns in Byte did well in showing, in a way that a techie could
understand, what it was like for a user to be confronted with new
technology.  

Nearly ran him down one time, though, on my skateboard, because I was busy
checking out his wife.  8^)  Wasn't (isn't) she a expert in special ed or
something like that?  

I remember him; he (99.99%) probably doesn't remember me.  But love him or
hate him, he was a fascinating character.  Not sure if he claimed it
outright or just alluded to it, but I always got the impression he had been
a spy or something in the 50's/60's.  Any truth to that?  

Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
neat person.  A physicist turned programmer. 

Lastly, anyone know whatever happened to the local San Francisco BBS
Newsbase and its denizens?


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep  3 18:24:13 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980903122029.37d71422@ricochet.net>

At 01:04 PM 9/2/98 PDT, you wrote:
>These days, but I think 1983 is a little different. And if a book is
>successfull, why wouldn't they think about a second edition. The
>compelling reason to save a floppy version is that they might want
>to go back and edit something.

If you wrote a book in 1983, had the second edition in 85, then they
discontinued the 8-bit ataris.  Now it's 1995, you're moving, and you've
got this box with an old atari and a bunch of disks.  You look at the
Pentium PC on your desk, reminisce for a few moments, laugh, and toss it on
the trash pile.  With your original manuscript disks. 



--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From rcini at email.msn.com  Thu Sep  3 18:16:05 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

Hans:

>>Did you talk to them ? Their website (http://www.gmtme.com/index.html)
>>presents only a few new products - noting of the old stuff.

    No, I did not. I got the impression that the intellectual property
associated with the old MOS stuff remained with the bankruptcy estate. GMT
only purchased certain inventory on hand (probably wafers, etching
chemicals, etc.)

>     The non-CSG assets stayed with Escom until they filed for receivership
> (bankruptcy), in 1996. The assets were then sold to a Netherlands-based
> company (Commodore NL??), who then sold the Amiga assets to Gateway (the
> Holstein cow people). I don't think that anyone truly knows who owns the
old
> 8-bit assets. Commodore NL sells PeeCee compatible machines under the
> Commodore name, so I'd bank on Gateway owning them. If anyone on this list
> knows anyone at Gateway, now may be the time to use the relationship.

>>I think this is a formidable example for all our old (pre 1980) toys -
Almost all of the small (and >>even some of the big)
manufactiurers/designers have vanished. So who owns the design,
>>the ROM code, the spechial chip designs, the manuals and any other soft ?

    One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
bankruptcy court in Southern California.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From rcini at email.msn.com  Thu Sep  3 18:46:41 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:26 2005
Subject: Chain of ownership (was KIM/MOS-Tech)
Message-ID: <008d01bdd795$cfc5fd40$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

To Sam and any others:

> Also, who owns the rights to the Altair 8800 now?  Percom?  ICOM?  Ed
> Roberts?  What happened after all the buyouts and bakruptcies?

    I'll do some research on this if someone can give me a complete chain of
ownership (as far as anyone knows), approximate dates, addresses, any notes
on bankruptcies, etc.

    My attorneys are alyaws looking for interesting projects :-)

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 19:19:16 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>

yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
talking about the future of gaming. 

In a message dated 9/3/98 7:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:

> Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
>  Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
>  then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
>  world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
>  neat person.  A physicist turned programmer


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep  3 19:37:18 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980903193718.00c748b0@pc>


Finding old characters like Chris Crawford?  Sheesh, doesn't anyone
try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.) before asking a question
of the endlessly patient oracle known as this mailing list?  Crawford
is still quite active as an old wise man in the gaming industry.
If his page(s) don't show up in the first twenty hits, you're not
using the right keywords.

- John



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep  3 08:19:54 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
References: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35EE977A.387824D4@sprintmail.com>

Thank you Tony for your interest in my problem..
I will try to locate a replacment Cap tomorrow or over the weekend..
And I will just replace the defective Cap as you said..
I also agree with you that its probubly all thats wrong with the old machine...

I truly love this computer, finding not only one, but two after looking for quite
awhile was a thrill
and I look forward to some play time with my two Osborne 01's ..

I also want to thank a very nice lady from Germany named Gaby, that also echoed the
same advise as you did on the repair..

Brings up somthing I never considered about old computers that have not been used for
many years.. These two Osbornes were not powered up for over 13 years, they are in
mint condition kept inside for all these years.. I did not know that the years of
sleeping can effect Capacitors..

I am now concerned about the other one, it has an odor like something is hot also in
it comming out..
I have only had the second unit on for no more than 10 mins sofar, hopeing to sort of
break-in the old caps on it without blowing the power supply on it also..

Has anyone else had this problem with old computers befor..?

Again Thank you ..

Phil Clayton


Tony Duell wrote:

> I received your private e-mail to me as well, but I may as well reply to
> this one only.
>
> >   I pulled the whole unit apart and I now know its the Switching Power Supply..
> >
> > 1980 by Astec components LTD.
>
> Astec are a very common manufacturer of SMPSUs. They turn up in all sorts
> of machines.
>
> >
> > The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
> > blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
> > saw smoke..
> >
> > The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
> > leaking out)
> > The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP
> >
> > On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
> > touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
> > on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..
> >
>
> Hmm... The 'X' on the capacitor makes me think it may be part of the
> mains filter network. And these caps fail for no good reason and do no
> other damage.
>
> > I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
>
> Nor am I!
>
> > experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
> > tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
> > I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
> > from my friends"
> >
> >
> > So What do you think?
> > Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
>
> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get
> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't
> help you there).
>
> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would)
> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a
> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and
> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load
> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
>
> > Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?
>
> No, I think it just failed.
>
> -tony





From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep  3 21:23:21 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b214fd4ba2f7@[207.220.32.214]>

>yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
>was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
>talking about the future of gaming.

"Balance of Power" saw at least two different versions, and I'm aware of
versions for the Mac, Amiga, and PC, I'm sure there was a version for the
Atari ST, and possibly some of the 8-Bit platforms.

The PC version is interesting, came on 5.25" low density disk, and includes
a crippled version of Windows 1, that can only be used to play the game.
The Mac version will only run correctly on OLD machines such as the Mac
Plus, in fact it wants that size screen.

As for Chris Crawford I know that he wrote a book, that centered around
"Balance of Power", on the design of computer games.  I think it was
published by Microsoft Press around 1990.

				Zane


>
>In a message dated 9/3/98 7:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:
>
>> Speaking of characters, btw, anyone know what ever happened to Chris
>>  Crawford?  He wrote some really popular game for the Atari 8-bit computers,
>>  then went on to develop a hit game for the Mac (something about running the
>>  world or something?  Sorry, I was never really into games.)  He was another
>>  neat person.  A physicist turned programmer

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 20:15:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <35EE977A.387824D4@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 3, 98 09:19:54 am
Message-ID: <m0zEkTc-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From fmc at reanimators.org  Thu Sep  3 20:16:16 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini, Jr."'s message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:16:05 -0400
References: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

"Richard A. Cini, Jr." <rcini@email.msn.com> wrote:
>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.

At one point (before 1979) Bill Millard was pursuing an
income-sheltering scheme that involved selling IMS to a
south-of-the-border company that would liquidate it, then sell its
intellectual property to yet another company located on the Isle of
Jersey.  Said third company would license the intellectual property
back to IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. which would make and sell computers.
IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. would pay a licensing fee; the third company
would pay Millard royalties.

I gathered this was never really completed, but Millard ended up going
to some effort in an attempt to put things back the way they were,
un-incorporating the old IMS Associates Inc. and IMSAI Manufacturing
Corp. to release the names, and incorporating new ones of each.  Also
I thought that it was IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. that filed for
bankruptcy and presumably sold its assets to Fischer-Freitas.  IMS
Associates was (I think) still the parent of both IMSAI Manufacturing
Corp. and ComputerLand.

Or maybe I don't understand it at all, IANAL.  If you'd like to
explain it to me I'd appreciate it.

-Frank McConnell






From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep  3 20:36:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809040142.VAA14852@gate.usaor.net>

I have an old WANG WLTC that a Cap will explode if is left plugged in for
more than a minute without the battery in it.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 9:15 PM
>
> > Has anyone else had this problem with old computers befor..?
> 
> I've seen a Tektronix terminal where all the mains filter capacitors 
> exploded but the terminal was otherwise fine. No idea why...
> 
> -tony
> 


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep  3 20:53:11 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205136.1286B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 3 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Or maybe I don't understand it at all, IANAL.  If you'd like to
> explain it to me I'd appreciate it.

OK, this has got to be the worst acronym yet.  Are you describing your
personality, are you trying to tell us that you're not a lawyer, or
what?

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep  3 21:00:51 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980903193718.00c748b0@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205648.1286C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Sheesh, doesn't anyone try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.)
> before asking a question of the endlessly patient oracle known as this
> mailing list?

That reminds me, oh oracle, who designed the Scelbi-8H (was it Nat
Wadsworth?) and where is he now?  The last reference to somebody named Nat
Wadsworth that *might* be the right guy was a blurb in QST about a heart
attack he had in 1993, but survived. 

Has anybody attempted to create a "wahtever happended to" list of our
heros?

-- Doug



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep  3 21:30:45 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

Thanks to the advice on restoring my rained-on Osborne 1 (especially from
Tony Duell - thanks Tony), it is now up and running, and asking for a boot
disk, which of course I haven't got.

Is there any way to create a boot disk from an image, and if so where can I
find such an image?  I'm pretty sure my Osborne has a double-density
controller (it is the blue version, and the floppy drives appear to be
plugged into a daughterboard).

I addition to a PC with a 360K floppy drive, I have a copy of Sybex's
22disk and a copy of a much earlier program called ALIEN.COM, both of which
can read and write CP/M disks in a variety of formats. (BTW, does anyone
have a version of ALIEN.COM later than 1.0Fj?)

I also have a Commodore 128D, plus external 1571 and 1581 drives, and I've
found a CP/M program called Jugg'ler-128, which is supposed to allow
reading and writing of around 140 different CP/M formats (including, it
seems, Osborne 1 single-density).

So given these resources, is it possible for me to create an Osborne 1 boot
disk?  I understand that I can get one (for a small fee) from the Dina-SIG
CP/M System Disk Archives via Don Maslin, but this involves getting the
disk shipped halfway around the world, not to mention the added
complication of getting a few Australian dollars converted into (even
fewer) US dollars.

Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure
things are more complicated than that.

Thanks in advance.

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 21:44:11 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au> from "Scott McLauchlan" at Sep 4, 98 12:30:45 pm
Message-ID: <199809040244.UAA05325@calico.litterbox.com>

Osborne1 was a CPM machine, wasn't it?  If so, there's CPM for PCs that I 
would think you could build a bootable disk with... dunno.  If you need the 
CPM for PCs, lemme know and I'll e-mail you a copy.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Sep  3 23:06:07 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;]
In-Reply-To: <199809021738.KAA02219@goodnet.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19980901225159.2fc77960@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980903230607.3bff1750@intellistar.net>

At 10:38 AM 9/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Where would you recommend finding a good deal on one?  How much do they
>tend to go for?


   You can find them at used equipment dealers but they're expensive there.
 The best place to find one is in someones garage or a company like an
electrical contractors that hasn't used it much.  I paid $750 for mine (in
VERY good condition) but I've seen stuff like old 6" Logans in good
conditons for $100 to $300.  Beware though that tooling costs as  much or
more than the machine. If you can find one with tooling it will save you a
lot of time searching and a LOT of money.

  Joe



From fmc at reanimators.org  Thu Sep  3 22:14:56 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:53:11 -0500 (CDT)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205136.1286B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <199809040314.UAA02591@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote (after me):
> >IANAL.
> 
> OK, this has got to be the worst acronym yet.  Are you describing your
> personality, are you trying to tell us that you're not a lawyer, or
> what?

Well, when I typed it I was thinking "I Am Not A Lawyer", but as long
as you're asking I'll answer "all of the above."

-Frank McConnell


From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep  3 22:36:29 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net>

I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).

--Alan


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep  3 18:43:10 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: hitachi cd-rom drivers
In-Reply-To: <01bdd75a$72b169e0$1428a2ce@manney>
Message-ID: <199809040347.XAA19128@smtp.interlog.com>

On  3 Sep 98 at 12:46, PG Manney wrote:

> I do, I think. Lemme check.
> 
> >Someone here mentioned a few days ago that he had the drivers
> >for a hitachi cd-rom drive. Does anyone remember who it was? I want to
> >test this thing before shipping it.
> 
 Mr. Manney what happened with the IEEE serial cards ?

ciao		larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep  3 18:43:09 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zEdIL-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <35ED29E0.F841A6C7@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 2, 98 07:20:00 am
Message-ID: <199809040347.XAA19142@smtp.interlog.com>

On  3 Sep 98 at 18:35, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > The board mesures 4 by 7inches and looks very clean, exception of the Cap that
> > blew, The fuse is not blown either.. LIke I said I shut it down as soon as I
> > saw smoke..
> > 
> > The Obvoius bad component is the Capacitor (Its cracked on has skicky stuff
> > leaking out)
> > The Value is  0,1uF@X , brand is Rita, GPC , 250V-MP
> > 
> > On inspection this looks to be the only bad part.. It is next to, in fact
> > touching against I think a diod or transistor , its black with 3 legs (Wires)
> > on it  (GI KBP-10    8210)..
> > 
> 
> Hmm... The 'X' on the capacitor makes me think it may be part of the 
> mains filter network. And these caps fail for no good reason and do no 
> other damage.
> 
 Tony, I tend to be a board switcher now (shame) and I usually just replace the 
defective component. When I first started I was more investigative and would 
replace defective diodes etc. Dried out caps is common in older equipment and
while i've occasionally replaced them as in old audio equipment, I've always
tended to think that they would take out other parts of the circuits with them.
 Does the cap short or open when they dry out ? Thinking about it , it makes
sense that they would not damage other components as long as they did not short 
or be able to charge.
 Is this why you get failed PSU.s commonly with an intact fuse ?
 I've had 3 or 4 IBM PSU failures recently and have avoided trying to repair 
them since I think that a failed power transister usually took a bunch of other 
stuff with it and I think my time is more valuable than trying to track it 
down. Are failed electrolytyics the most common source of failures. ?
 Another source is a fan disfunction with heat causing failure. What circuit
component is most likely to die under those conditions ? Having an overview
of this you could quickly check the most likely offender and desolder it to 
check it . Of course if you had the circuit diagrams you could figure out the
RC,  pi, etc. functions but I retain little of the theory I studied long ago.
 Whatever the lackings of the IBM service manuals, they , like the army
give you step by step processes and leave little to initiative.

> > I am not a professional board level techniction, but I do have alot of
> 
> Nor am I!
> 
> > experiance soldering and working with electronic components.. I have basic
> > tools like: Soldering iron, Ohm meter..
> > I should be able to reoair this myself with (Like the song goes) "A Little help
> > from my friends"
> > 
> > 
> > So What do you think?
> > Should I just replace the Bad Cap and plug it in again?
> 
> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
> help you there). 
> 
> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
> 
> > Do you think it blew because of another shorted part ?
> 
> No, I think it just failed.
> 
> -tony
> 
 You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W
bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 

 I must admit that you and Jason P have inspired me to go back to basics.
 I should warn you I have an IBM PS1 SVGA monitor I just acquired that
I will be asking for guidance on , and if the stuff thats been on the list 
lately isn't off topic a svga sure as fuck isn't. :^))

ciao  Larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Thu Sep  3 22:48:39 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199809040348.NAA24994@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 12:30 PM 04-09-98 +1000, Scott McLauchlan wrote:

>Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
>with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
>this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
>originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure
>things are more complicated than that.

As you can tell from my e-mail address, I'm a little closer to you than a
lot of others on the list.

I can't talk about the legality of getting copies of Wordstar et al, but
I'm sure it'll be OK to get you a copy of the necessary disks to get your
O1 up again. I've got them all at home. I'm off for a week to train as a
"pointy head" but I'll see what I can do on my return.

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep  3 11:08:52 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
References: <199809040244.UAA05325@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35EEBF14.3774657E@sprintmail.com>

Jim :
    If you have or even know where I could get a copy CP/M  for my PC I sure
would apperciate it..
Did you say you could email it?

As for Scott , I would be glad to send him a copy of my Osborne CP/M via Snail
Mail of he likes..

But I would personally love to have a copy of CP/M for my DOS machine, sounds
very
cool to me....

Could you email me a copy...?

Thank You..

Phil Clayton



Jim wrote:

> Osborne1 was a CPM machine, wasn't it?  If so, there's CPM for PCs that I
> would think you could build a bootable disk with... dunno.  If you need the
> CPM for PCs, lemme know and I'll e-mail you a copy.
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------





From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 22:57:18 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 3, 98 11:36:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>

Here's what I know.

Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.
80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface  goes in 1.

As far as the operating system, you can ftp it down from apple - of course
you need an apple to write the disks.  You can also order the OS disks from
alltech (www.allelec.com) for less than 10 bucks, I think.  Alltech also
carries a surprizing number of *new* and refurbished hardware for the 2s
including roms, disk drives, interface cards, motherboards, ICs, monitors, and
so on.  Even hard disks at VERY reasonable prices.

There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There 
WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the 
a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating
software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not, 
as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)

The other good place for information are the apple2 and apple2pro(grammer)
forums on Delphi.  You can get delphi web access for free by hitting their
web site - www.delphi.com.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep  3 23:04:16 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <35EEBF14.3774657E@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 3, 98 12:08:52 pm
Message-ID: <199809040404.WAA05809@calico.litterbox.com>

I'd be delighted, but you'll have to send me your e-mail address.  The 
listserver seems to be pretty thorough excising it from the headers.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep  3 23:24:01 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 boot disk needed.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980904123045.0089c6d0@cts.canberra.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980903212258.10092A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Scott McLauchlan wrote:

> Thanks to the advice on restoring my rained-on Osborne 1 (especially from
> Tony Duell - thanks Tony), it is now up and running, and asking for a boot
> disk, which of course I haven't got.
> 
> Is there any way to create a boot disk from an image, and if so where can I
> find such an image?  I'm pretty sure my Osborne has a double-density
> controller (it is the blue version, and the floppy drives appear to be
> plugged into a daughterboard).
> 
> I addition to a PC with a 360K floppy drive, I have a copy of Sybex's
> 22disk and a copy of a much earlier program called ALIEN.COM, both of which
> can read and write CP/M disks in a variety of formats. (BTW, does anyone
> have a version of ALIEN.COM later than 1.0Fj?)
> 
> I also have a Commodore 128D, plus external 1571 and 1581 drives, and I've
> found a CP/M program called Jugg'ler-128, which is supposed to allow
> reading and writing of around 140 different CP/M formats (including, it
> seems, Osborne 1 single-density).
> 
> So given these resources, is it possible for me to create an Osborne 1 boot
> disk?  I understand that I can get one (for a small fee) from the Dina-SIG
> CP/M System Disk Archives via Don Maslin, but this involves getting the
> disk shipped halfway around the world, not to mention the added
> complication of getting a few Australian dollars converted into (even
> fewer) US dollars.
> 
> Also, is it possible to get images of the other disks that originally came
> with the Osborne 1 (Wordstar et al)?  Are there any licensing issues with
> this?  I would have thought that, since the programs came with the machine
> originally, owning the machine would imply having a license, but I'm sure

That has always been my thesis!
						 - don

> things are more complicated than that.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> |         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
> |       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
> |      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
> | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |
> 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
    visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm




From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Thu Sep  3 21:11:31 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Someone left the "confirmation on read" on.  tsk.
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
References: "Richard A. Cini, Jr."'s message of Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:16:05 -0400
Message-ID: <199809040548.BAA08263@commercial.cgocable.net>

Guys,

Please kindly turn this feature off!

This happened at least to 2 topics.
Sorry, both had Send-to addressed to classicomp mailing list not
to real users who enabled it.

Osborne PSU smoked and cdrom discussions.

Thanks!

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From sethm at loomcom.com  Fri Sep  4 01:58:08 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Looking for a rack...
Message-ID: <199809040658.XAA01384@loomcom.com>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:45:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <008c01bdd795$cedb0100$ef33fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904004525.2588A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

How awesome to have someone with the ambition and the resources to do
something like this.  Just awesome!  Thanks, Richard!!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:49:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <a175ec9f.35ef3204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904004903.2588C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> yea, i have an old compute! magazine that had a write-up about him. his game
> was some strategy scenario with the us<->ussr or something like that. he was
> talking about the future of gaming. 

_Balance of Power_ perhaps?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 02:56:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <v04011707b214fd4ba2f7@[207.220.32.214]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904005616.2588F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> "Balance of Power" saw at least two different versions, and I'm aware of
> versions for the Mac, Amiga, and PC, I'm sure there was a version for the
> Atari ST, and possibly some of the 8-Bit platforms.

FYI, there was an Apple ][ version.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:10:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
In-Reply-To: <199809040116.SAA28875@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904005826.2588G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 3 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
> Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.
> 
> At one point (before 1979) Bill Millard was pursuing an
> income-sheltering scheme that involved selling IMS to a
> south-of-the-border company that would liquidate it, then sell its
> intellectual property to yet another company located on the Isle of
> Jersey.  Said third company would license the intellectual property
> back to IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. which would make and sell computers.
> IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. would pay a licensing fee; the third company
> would pay Millard royalties.
> 
> I gathered this was never really completed, but Millard ended up going
> to some effort in an attempt to put things back the way they were,
> un-incorporating the old IMS Associates Inc. and IMSAI Manufacturing
> Corp. to release the names, and incorporating new ones of each.  Also
> I thought that it was IMSAI Manufacturing Corp. that filed for
> bankruptcy and presumably sold its assets to Fischer-Freitas.  IMS
> Associates was (I think) still the parent of both IMSAI Manufacturing
> Corp. and ComputerLand.

In my reading of the book (which you so graciously let me
borrow...thanks...but I haven't been able to locate my own copy yet) I
recall that this is basically correct.  Millard was on his way to
completing this strange incorporation in order to avoid paying corporate
taxes in the U.S.  But the backing partners freaked out over it and
demanded he cease and desist because the way he was structuring it would
have made the backing partners' share of the company worthless (my memory
is getting a bit sketchy now about the details but that was the gist of
it).  After this he started the ComputerLand chain concept, which began to
take off.  He then spitefully let IMSAI run itself into the ground so he
could declare bankruptcy, maneuvering to absolve his obligation to the
backing partners of IMSAI (in a nutshell...it was carried out in a
non-obvious manner in an attempt to circumvent the backing partners'
onwership).  However, there was one little note that threw a wrench into
his master plan that was later capitalized on in the subsequent trials
over ownership of ComputerLand.  Basically the argument was that an
investment into IMSAI at some point legally went towards the financing of
ComputerLand, and therefore the US$6 billion ComputerLand empire was not
Millard's alone, but was shared by the initial backers in IMSAI, as well
as a principal of IMSAI who had purchased the note from the initial
backers and had been selling shares in the note to other people to support
his subsequent hair-brained schemes. 

Its as complicated as it sounds.  The book is a great read!  Not written
all that competently, but a fascinating.  An amazing tale of treachery and
deceit.  Bill Millard was one of those crooked sons-a-bitches you wouldn't
want to buy an Apple from...sort of like my ex-boss. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:11:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980903205648.1286C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011118.2588H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> That reminds me, oh oracle, who designed the Scelbi-8H (was it Nat
> Wadsworth?) and where is he now?  The last reference to somebody named Nat
> Wadsworth that *might* be the right guy was a blurb in QST about a heart
> attack he had in 1993, but survived. 
> 
> Has anybody attempted to create a "wahtever happended to" list of our
> heros?

That's what you're supposed to research when you create your Nerd Trading
Cards (tm).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:14:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EF603D.D84@bright.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011400.2588I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:

> I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
> laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
> any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
> mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
> for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).

Not old-timers but people who spent enough time with it growing up to help
you out.

For starters, do you have a case and power supply?  The case is optional
but the P/S is mandatory unfortunately.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 03:24:10 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> Here's what I know.
> 
> Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.

Actually, floppy controller can go in ANY slot.  But typically, slot 6
(not 5) was used.

> 80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface goes
> in 1. 

Again, only by custom do the cards go where you specify.  You can stick
the cards in whatever slot you'd like.  There were SOME video cards that
had to go in slot 7 which had a special video signal present on that slot
only.

> There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There 
> WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
> and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the 
> a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating

This guy was a mega turd.  Although his FAQ was good, and his amazingly
peurile action of obliterating the FAQ over his personal holy war against
perceived or actual piracy of mostly obsolete software was indeed bizarre,
there are plenty of replacement FAQs available to help out the novice.

> software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not, 
> as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)

This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
alone.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Sep  4 05:38:48 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Toshiba 3100e/40, locks up??
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980904063848.006880ac@mail.wincom.net>


	Just received a pair of 3100e/40's. One seems ok, the other will boot ok
but after about four minutes the screen will freeze and the keyboard will
become completely inoperative.
	Turning it off and on results in three or four bright vertical lines on
the screen and no other activity. Turning it off for twenty minutes or so
results in it booting up normally as above.
	Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to start?

								Regards

								Charlie Fox



From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:42:50 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <199809040357.VAA05745@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC429.6988@bright.net>

Jim wrote:
> 
> Here's what I know.
> 
> Floppy drive controller goes in slot 5.
> 80 column adapter - if it's not a 2e - goes in 3.  Pinter interface  goes in 1.
> 
> As far as the operating system, you can ftp it down from apple - of course
> you need an apple to write the disks.  You can also order the OS disks from
> alltech (www.allelec.com) for less than 10 bucks, I think.  Alltech also
> carries a surprizing number of *new* and refurbished hardware for the 2s
> including roms, disk drives, interface cards, motherboards, ICs, monitors, and
> so on.  Even hard disks at VERY reasonable prices.
> 
> There's also a newsgroup, comp.sys.apple2 you can read about it.  There
> WERE some good FAQ pages from the group, but the maintainer threw a tantrum
> and low-leveled his drives that held them in the process of leaving the
> a2 community over piracy.  (There's an ongoing debate whether pirating
> software that is no longer commercially available is *wrong* or not,
> as well as several pirate sites that pirate anything and everything.)
> 
> The other good place for information are the apple2 and apple2pro(grammer)
> forums on Delphi.  You can get delphi web access for free by hitting their
> web site - www.delphi.com.
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my message. The information you
provided is very helpful. I know what you mean about the software
privacy issue regarding commercial software.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:49:47 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011400.2588I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC5CB.1362@bright.net>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:
> 
> > I have three Apple II motherboards, several floppy drives, and cards
> > laying around. I would like to get one Apple II running. I don't have
> > any experience with Apple II computers. Is there any old timers on the
> > mailing list who can give me some help. I also will need the software
> > for running the computer (the boot disk, ect.).
> 
> Not old-timers but people who spent enough time with it growing up to help
> you out.
> 
> For starters, do you have a case and power supply?  The case is optional
> but the P/S is mandatory unfortunately.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com

Sam,
Yes, the motherboards are still in the cases and have the power
supplies, keyboards, cards, ect. Later today I will get back to you with
the model number written on the case.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 05:57:58 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35EFC7B6.6996@bright.net>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
> There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
> are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
> going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
> would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
> alone.
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 

Sam,
I was not aware of this. I will look through my archives. I downloaded
some Apple II FAQs about a year ago from somewhere on the web. Perhaps
it was the person you mentioned who authored them.

--Alan


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 08:12:11 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <9808049049.AA904940034@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Larry and Tony are discussing a blown capacitor...
 
>> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
>> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
>> help you there). 
>> 
>> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
>> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
>> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
>> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
>> it's safe to try it in the computer again.

[...]
 
>  You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
> memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
> a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
> Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W 
> bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 

Eh?  6V 6W bulb is exactly what Tony suggested.

To be more specific, many power supplies have regulator circuits that 
expect some current to be flowing in the load.  These PSUs will push out 
the wrong voltages, or shut down altogether, if you power them up with 
nothing on the output.

Therefore, when testing power supplies, connect some sort of load device 
- it doesn't matter what as long as it draws roughly the right amount of 
current - to the output.  Most computer PSUs regulate the voltage on the 
5V rail and hope all the others will follow, so this is the best place 
to connect the load.

Light bulbs make good dummy loads because (a) they light up when the 
current is flowing and (b) they are relatively small, cheap and easy to 
obtain compared with (say) resistors of similar value.

12V bulbs (e.g. car running lamp (0.3 A) or indicator lamp (1.75 A)) are 
good for loading 12V lines should you need it.

6V bulbs are good for loading 5V lines.  6V 6W flashlight bulb is good 
for small and medium PSUs; for larger power supplies I use a 6V 24W car 
headlamp bulb (yes, my truck has 6V electrics).  12V bulbs also work at 
5V, but remeber they have a much lower resistance at 5V than they do at 
12.

DON'T use the "power good" line to connect the dummy load.  This is a 
digital output - usually TTL level - which can only drive a few mA.

DO connect the "voltage sense" line(s) to the load as well as +5V and 
ground.

Philip.



From rcini at email.msn.com  Fri Sep  4 07:05:21 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech
Message-ID: <013601bdd7fe$34cf2e60$ef33fea9@mainoffice>

On 03 Sep 1998 18:16:16 -0700, Frank McConnell <fmc@reanimators.org> wrote:

>     One of my other projects is tracing-down IMSAI intellectual property.
> IMS sold out to Fischer-Freitas Corp. some time around 1979. My attorneys
> are looking into this now; we're retrieving the court docket from the
> bankruptcy court in Southern California.

>>Heh.  Have you read _Once Upon a Time in ComputerLand_ by Jonathan
>>Littman (I think)?  If not, you should.

    I'll try to locate a copy. This is all part of learning about a
particular computer line...I was about 11 at the time, so my focus was on
playing in the park, not computers.

    Thanks for the input.


Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Sep  4 08:31:03 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <4F1A121151@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On  4 Sep 98 at 1:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> This guy was a mega turd.  Although his FAQ was good, and his amazingly
> peurile action of obliterating the FAQ over his personal holy war against
> perceived or actual piracy of mostly obsolete software was indeed bizarre,
> there are plenty of replacement FAQs available to help out the novice.

The "new" FAQs can be downloaded from the Ground FTP server at 
ground.ecn.uiowa.edu


> This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!

Things have improved on the csa2 newsgroup following NM's departure. 
You forgot to mention his trademark "read the FAQ, stupid" response to 
every naive question. As you said, definitely a group for the 
sociologists to enjoy in years to come on Dejanews...

Phil 
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 13:07:48 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EFC5CB.1362@bright.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904110655.2885A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, oajones wrote:

> Yes, the motherboards are still in the cases and have the power
> supplies, keyboards, cards, ect. Later today I will get back to you with
> the model number written on the case.

No need for the model number.  Its pretty irrelevant.  Tell us what cards
you have.  Most should have a name on the card that indicates what it is,
ie. "Disk ][ Controller".

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep  4 11:33:11 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <9808049049.AA904940034@compsci.powertech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199809042036.QAA03872@smtp.interlog.com>

On  4 Sep 98 at 13:12, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote:

> Larry and Tony are discussing a blown capacitor...
>  
> >> I'd replace it. A 250V _AC_ capacitor, class X. You should be able to get 
> >> that from a good parts company (alas, being in another country I can't 
> >> help you there). 
> >> 
> >> Then try again. Put the PSU on dummy load if you like (I certainly would) 
> >> - a 6V 6W bulb on between the +5V output and the 0V pin. Let it run for a 
> >> few minutes - taking care not to touch the PSU board as there's mains and 
> >> rectified mains all over it. If it runs for (say) 5 minutes on dummy load 
> >> it's safe to try it in the computer again.
> 
> [...]
>  
> >  You have referred before to this dummy load 6V 6W  device. If my
> > memory of Ohms law hasn't failed me completely this works out to
> > a 1 amp limit. I also imagine this has to be on the power good line. 
> > Is there any reason you use this configuration ? I have some old 6V 6W 
> > bulbs . Would these work just as well ? 
> 
> Eh?  6V 6W bulb is exactly what Tony suggested.
> 
Oops. I meant 6V 9W

> To be more specific, many power supplies have regulator circuits that 
> expect some current to be flowing in the load.  These PSUs will push out 
> the wrong voltages, or shut down altogether, if you power them up with 
> nothing on the output.
> 
> Therefore, when testing power supplies, connect some sort of load device 
> - it doesn't matter what as long as it draws roughly the right amount of 
> current - to the output.  Most computer PSUs regulate the voltage on the 
> 5V rail and hope all the others will follow, so this is the best place 
> to connect the load.
> 
> Light bulbs make good dummy loads because (a) they light up when the 
> current is flowing and (b) they are relatively small, cheap and easy to 
> obtain compared with (say) resistors of similar value.
> 
> 12V bulbs (e.g. car running lamp (0.3 A) or indicator lamp (1.75 A)) are 
> good for loading 12V lines should you need it.
> 
> 6V bulbs are good for loading 5V lines.  6V 6W flashlight bulb is good 
> for small and medium PSUs; for larger power supplies I use a 6V 24W car 
> headlamp bulb (yes, my truck has 6V electrics).  12V bulbs also work at 
> 5V, but remeber they have a much lower resistance at 5V than they do at 
> 12.
> 
> DON'T use the "power good" line to connect the dummy load.  This is a 
> digital output - usually TTL level - which can only drive a few mA.
> 
 Hmmm. Now I'm confused (as always). Wouldn't that mean you'd have to
leave the "power good" (orange ?) line connected to the motherboard otherwise
the PSU would shut down ? Was why I mentioned the higher W rating.

> DO connect the "voltage sense" line(s) to the load as well as +5V and 
> ground.
> 
> Philip.

 Ahh this seems like the source of my confusion about this. What is the
difference between the "power good" and the "voltage sense" lines ?
 For example, most of computer PSUs I've seen have up to 12 lines connected  
to the MB sometimes segmented into 2 groups. One of these groups has a
uniquely color-coded line ( orange ?) which I took to be the PG line. the 
conectors for the peripheral devices have 4 lines 2 of which are usually black
(ground or neutral) and there's usually a red which I believe is "hot or 
positive" Is the 4th line (usually blue or yellow) the "voltage sense" line ?

BTW is there any color-code convention for wire like the one for resistors and 
other components ? Green is always ground in most applications for example.

 I also have an IBM 8557 which is a SCSI mchn that has 4 heavy-guage red and
black connected to the PSU as well as a connector with 7 smaller guage wires 
( 2 blu, y, wh, or, bla, brn). The heavy guage are obviously power but what are
the rest for ? The orange I take it is PG ,the black neg. or return. The device 
plugs are red, bla, bla, blu. no smaller perp. plug. I guess the 3 1/2" FDD 
takes power from the SCSI bus.  

ciao		larry
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Fri Sep  4 11:33:10 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <35EFC7B6.6996@bright.net>
Message-ID: <199809042037.QAA03894@smtp.interlog.com>

On  4 Sep 98 at 6:57, oajones wrote:

> Sam Ismail wrote:
> > 
> > This debate is being perpetuated by people who have absolutely no life
> > whatsoever.  I engaged in that debate for a few weeks and then went on
> > with my life.  This was 2 years ago, AND THIS DEBATE IS STILL RAGING!
> > There are mostly new converts to this crusade, but some of the old players
> > are still there!  Its absolutely amazing!  A Usenet Jihad that has been
> > going on for nearly 3 years now, mostly unfettered!!!  Some sociologists
> > would get a kick out of studying the human behaviour on this newsgroup
> > alone.
> > 
> > Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
> 
> Sam,
> I was not aware of this. I will look through my archives. I downloaded
> some Apple II FAQs about a year ago from somewhere on the web. Perhaps
> it was the person you mentioned who authored them.
> 
> --Alan
> 
 Actually, it was quite hilarious when it wasn't tedious. TMK Nathan Mates
and his supporters are now ensconced on the Delphi A2 forum.
 comp.sys.apple2 has settled down into a more rational newsgroup with
only an occasional flurry sparked by a NM type doing a guerilla attack.
 I downloaded NM's FAQ before he pulled it. I wonder what the status
of this formerly freely-distributed property is. Hmmm , might be fun to
upload it to the Asimov site and see the sparks fly.  :^))

ciao		larry
 
lwalker@interlog.com


From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Sep  4 16:24:22 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980904172422.006881f4@mail.wincom.net>


	Problem has apparently been solved by re-seating the 286 chip and putting
silicon grease between the chip and the heatsink. It has been going now for
several hours.
	Thanks anyway, folks.

							Cheers

							Charlie Fox



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 16:52:54 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
References: <3.0.2.32.19980904172422.006881f4@mail.wincom.net>
Message-ID: <35F06135.267AD6DE@bbtel.com>

Next best thing to thermal transfer compound. Evidentally the 286 chip is one of the
older non-C types that generate a lot of heat

Charles E. Fox wrote:

>         Problem has apparently been solved by re-seating the 286 chip and putting
> silicon grease between the chip and the heatsink. It has been going now for
> several hours.
>         Thanks anyway, folks.
>
>                                                         Cheers
>
>                                                         Charlie Fox



--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 12:57:05 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809040347.XAA19142@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 3, 98 11:43:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zF06f-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 13:17:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904011700.2588J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 4, 98 01:24:10 am
Message-ID: <m0zF0Q9-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep  4 19:26:10 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
References: <4F1A121151@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <35F08521.4AA6@bright.net>

Phil Beesley wrote:
> 
> The "new" FAQs can be downloaded from the Ground FTP server at
> ground.ecn.uiowa.edu
> 

Phil,

Thanks for giving us the link. I just checked it out. It is nice to
know  I can find help there too!

--Alan


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  4 20:55:26 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21649aa10a7@[207.220.32.167]>

>1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
>top bay.

I _might_ be interested in this.  How much of the rack does the CPU cabinet
take up?  Is there room in the rack for a couple of RL drives (ie, one
above, one below)?  Also, any idea cash wise what you want for it?

I heard from Joe Rigdon that Paxton's big auction was delayed, so I sent
him e-mail last night.  He actually answered back today (surprise,
surprise), and it's delayed for at least a couple weeks.  Of course I just
went through hell arranging to be free those days.

				Zane



| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 19:35:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809042036.QAA03872@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 4, 98 04:33:11 pm
Message-ID: <m0zF6K3-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From mbg at world.std.com  Fri Sep  4 20:04:27 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
Message-ID: <199809050104.AA21592@world.std.com>

That is probably room for *an* RL02 or RA8x at the top of the cab...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:18:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:27 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zF06f-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904181730.29915E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> semiconductors have failed. If the supply is 'tweeting' then the most 
> likely problem is either a short on the secondary side (e.g. a shorted 

Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
described above?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 20:12:14 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net>

The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
(IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
(loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped
suddenly, or if the chip would move due to expansion and contraction of the
chip from heat, it would need to reseated.  There was also VERY little
airflow in those machines.  The power supply has a 1 1/2" fan, and the hard
drive and floppy drive were directly in front of the internal air vents,
basically blocking the already limited (because of fan size) airflow.  The
HD controller was also buried under the hot power supply.  The controller
would heat up, and the P/S would heat up, causing the HD controller to blow
from overheating, and making it seem like the heads in the HD were stuck
(don't know if toshiba did this on purpose...).  The HD's, if you can find
one are around $150 for a 20 meg.  I don't know the cost of the
controllers, because I sold the thing for parts before I even thought about
looking in to it.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

PS>> when the P/S starts blowing out air about as hot as a hair dryer set
on "low" (about an hour and a half), you better turn it off an let it cool
down for a bit (or just put it on ice).

----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake@bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 5:52 PM
> 
> Next best thing to thermal transfer compound. Evidentally the 286 chip is
one of the
> older non-C types that generate a lot of heat
> 
>  ___________________________________________________
> 
>  Russ Blakeman
>  Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
>  Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
>  Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
>  Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
>  ICQ UIN #1714857
>  ___________________________________________________
> 
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 20:16:06 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809050121.VAA29630@gate.usaor.net>

normally one of the components is trying to do something with the power,
but it can't.  sort of like when you short a wall transformer and it starts
to hum.  Another example is how some of the old computer screens or TV's
sometimes put a high-pitched whistle.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:18 PM
> 
> On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> > semiconductors have failed. If the supply is 'tweeting' then the most 
> > likely problem is either a short on the secondary side (e.g. a shorted 
> 
> Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
> described above?
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:24:09 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
In-Reply-To: <m0zF0Q9-000IyPC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904182108.29915F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> Also slot 0 (far left, nearest the PSU) is odd in software. You can't 
> access it with the standard PR# and IN# commands like you can all other 
> slots. In general only put language cards and Applesoft ROM cards there.

It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
"language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
slot.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep  4 20:53:39 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809050121.VAA29630@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904185246.29915I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> > Question: how can a power supply make noise when it fails in the manner
> > described above?
> > 
> normally one of the components is trying to do something with the power,
> but it can't.  sort of like when you short a wall transformer and it starts
> to hum.  Another example is how some of the old computer screens or TV's
> sometimes put a high-pitched whistle.

But what part is making such vibrations that it actually causes sound
waves to be emitted?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 21:10:26 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>

Hello everybody.

I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).  However, his solution
to fixing it was to drag it up the steps on sheet of plywood and let it sit
in the rain for three weeks.  Then he gave it to me because he was afraid
to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
the picture tube. 

 After everything had dried for about a week, I put it all back together,
and turned it on.  The tube came on with a bunch of crazy characters on the
screen.  I took the main board out, propped it up behind the computer,
tried it again, and the screen came up with the "Diskette ?" prompt.  I put
in a copy of TRS-DOS (unsubmerged), and hit reset.  ERROR came up in
40-column letters.  I shut it off, and pulled the drives.  I stuck (well
more like jammed- it was too wide) a 5.25" 360 half-height drive in it (it
ended up at an angle and upside down to fit), and tried that.  That time it
worked, booting to the TRS-DOS screen, asking for a date.  I typed
"09/01/98".  Nothing.  I took a key off the keyboard to try to clean it,
and they are the sealed-switch type.  I had to unsolder each switch, take
each one apart, clean it, put it back together, and solder it back to the
board.  However, I just cleaned the <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.

Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:

-5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
be TRS-80).
-External TRS-80 disk drives.
-Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
-TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
-Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
-TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)


I'm also looking for anything for the CoCo Model I and II - ESPECIALLY disk
drives and a printer.

As always, ThAnX in advance,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 21:23:29 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
Message-ID: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net>

It could be, as in the case of the adapter, a transformer.  It could also
be a capacitor.  I don't know how they make sound, but when I used to turn
off my old Leading Edge, there was a high-voltage Cap that would make a
loud *Chirp!*, then whistle, and the whistle would die down in a few
seconds.  It did the same thing when it was turned on, but backwards.  It
would start out as a soft whistle, get louder, then disappear, as the sound
probably went out of the range of human hearing.  It sounded sort of like
when a computer would power up in an old Sci-Fi movie.

Is the computer otherwise working fine?  if it is, and there's no smoke or
crackling sounds (like heating of coils or other components) after it's
been on for a while, I wouldn't worry.  

Is it a constant, high-pitched whistle?  Not being familiar with the
Osborne 01, dose it have a built-in CRT?  It could be that that's
whistling.  Try booting it with the CRT and control board (the thing with
the high voltage transformer with the wire going to the side of the CRT)
TOTALLY disconnected, and see if it still whistles.  If it doesn't, then
you've found the problem.  

As for fixing a whistling CRT, I haven't figured it out, yet (If anybody
knows how, could they please tell me?).  The only problems that I've seen
the whistling do is possibly make your ears hurt.  My current solution: 
wear ear plugs when using my Tandy 1000.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:53 PM
> 
> But what part is making such vibrations that it actually causes sound
> waves to be emitted?
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
> 
>                 September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                    See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                         [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
> 


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 21:54:43 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
References: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F0A7F3.24E7A757@bbtel.com>



Jason Willgruber wrote:

> The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
> (IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
> (loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
> of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped
> suddenly, or if the chip would move due to expansion and contraction of the
> chip from heat, it would need to reseated.  There was also VERY little
> airflow in those machines.  The power supply has a 1 1/2" fan, and the hard
> drive and floppy drive were directly in front of the internal air vents,
> basically blocking the already limited (because of fan size) airflow.  The
> HD controller was also buried under the hot power supply.  The controller
> would heat up, and the P/S would heat up, causing the HD controller to blow
> from overheating, and making it seem like the heads in the HD were stuck
> (don't know if toshiba did this on purpose...).  The HD's, if you can find
> one are around $150 for a 20 meg.  I don't know the cost of the
> controllers, because I sold the thing for parts before I even thought about
> looking in to it.

Oh I know the type your talking about, square 286 clamped in with pressure
contacts on all four sides. The last one I saw like that was in a Delta Gold I
had over 10 years ago. It had the white thermal compound on it to the heat sink
cover but of course that unit had more than enough air flow being a desktop
case, unless you got sloppy and let the ribbon cables block the air. I've only
worked on 2 T3100's and that was external work so I can't attest to what may be
inside.

So the hard drives are a special type huh?

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From rhblake at bbtel.com  Fri Sep  4 22:03:17 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
References: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F0A9F4.50429596@bbtel.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Hello everybody.
>
> I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
> sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
> it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).

> <snip>

> <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
> enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.

More time and patience than I have!

> Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:
>
> -5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
> be TRS-80).
> -External TRS-80 disk drives.
> -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> -TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
> -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> -TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)

Check the stuff Frank Larosa has on his site at
http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm

He has a Model III set up with external drives to include a 3.5" drive. I'm not
sure what you can do for a hard drive but if you can get some makes/models I
can see what I can scrounge up. As for a full height floppy, the one you have
is most likely a Tandon belt drive and you should be able to lube and clean it
and get it back on line with a little more detailing. Most likely the head(s)
need to be cleaned with denatured alcohol and the mechanism all lubed
(liberally and then wiped off) with a silicone based oil, much like sewing
machine oil. I do use sewing machine oil, the type they have at Walmart in a
white and red bottle sold under the Singer name. I just refill the needle oiler
I bought at tandy some years ago. Use it on VCRs, appliances, etc.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  4 23:30:24 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b21649aa10a7@[207.220.32.167]>
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <v04011702b2166eba2f0e@[192.168.1.2]>

Doh, I hate quick replies, that was meant to go directly to Jim.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 22:20:00 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <199809050336.XAA22007@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake@bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:54 PM
> 
> 
> Oh I know the type your talking about, square 286 clamped in with
pressure
> contacts on all four sides. The last one I saw like that was in a Delta
Gold I
> had over 10 years ago. It had the white thermal compound on it to the
heat sink
> cover but of course that unit had more than enough air flow being a
desktop
> case, unless you got sloppy and let the ribbon cables block the air. I've
only
> worked on 2 T3100's and that was external work so I can't attest to what
may be
> inside.
>
They were supposed to have the terminal compound between the chip and
processor.  Toshiba didn't put the compound on, leading to another
premature failure and more excess heat.
> 
> So the hard drives are a special type huh?
> 
They were made by JVC and had a 26 pin (IIRC) connector, with no power
connector.  My WANG WLTC has the 10MB version of the JVC drive, and my
Tandy 1400HD has an ALPS 20MB with the same connector.  I think they were
fairly common in old laptops, but just fairly hard to find now.  The drive
usually didn't go bad in the Toshiba.  It was the controller.  I know two
people who replaced the HD, only to find that it didn't work, either.  They
sent the HD's back to the company and scrapped the computers.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318



From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep  4 22:30:38 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809050337.XAA22024@gate.usaor.net>



> 
> Check the stuff Frank Larosa has on his site at
> http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm
> 
> He has a Model III set up with external drives to include a 3.5" drive.
I'm not
> sure what you can do for a hard drive but if you can get some
makes/models I
> can see what I can scrounge up. As for a full height floppy, the one you
have
> is most likely a Tandon belt drive and you should be able to lube and
clean it
> and get it back on line with a little more detailing. Most likely the
head(s)
> need to be cleaned with denatured alcohol and the mechanism all lubed
> (liberally and then wiped off) with a silicone based oil, much like
sewing
> machine oil. I do use sewing machine oil, the type they have at Walmart
in a
> white and red bottle sold under the Singer name. I just refill the needle
oiler
> I bought at tandy some years ago. Use it on VCRs, appliances, etc.
> 

I may be able to get the lower drive working by oiling it, but not the
upper drive.  My friend's 4-year old cousin put a penny in the top of the
computer, and it fell on the disk drive PCB.  When I took the computer
apart, the penny was still there - fused to the top of the board, with a
black ring around it.  I'm not sure if they're Tandon or ALPS.  The
keyboard was made by ALPS, but I didn't look at the drives.

I looked at Frank's TRS-80, and I tried to put my drive in it, but it was
too long and wide.  I noticed that his was a Model 4.  It may have a
different drive mount.  From the picture, the mount looks like it's shiny
metal.  Mine's a dull, gray plastic.

I'll try to get the model numbers from it.  I think the stickers are still
on there.



From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu  Sat Sep  5 00:24:45 1998
From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Fwd: CBM 4032 Pet info request
Message-ID: <199809050524.BAA22224@dgs.cs.unc.edu>

I got e-mail from Adrienne Carter at Money Magazine (!) asking about
the value "either financially or sentimentally" of the Commodore 4032
Pet.  I pointed her at e-bay, but she doesn't seem to be just looking
for a place to sell one.  Unfortunately, I don't know much anything
about those machines.  So, if any of you out there want to chat about
that machine, kindly write to her at this address after removing the
letter "x"s from it: Adrixenne_Carter@tixmexinc.com .

	Thanks,
	Bill.



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:01:40 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
References: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F09B84.833948D4@sprintmail.com>

Jason, I think the problem is that the original version of TRSDOS you are using
will not accept a date after 1989.
As you say it boots fine to a date prompt..
You will need to get LDOS to correct this funny flaw in the operating system.
Guess They never expected them to be around so long..
But it sound like you have it working..

Phil...

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Hello everybody.
>
> I'm in the process of restoring a submerged TRS-80 Model III.  It was
> sitting in my friend's basement when his septic tank backed up (yuk.), and
> it was sitting on the basement floor (double yuk.).  However, his solution
> to fixing it was to drag it up the steps on sheet of plywood and let it sit
> in the rain for three weeks.  Then he gave it to me because he was afraid
> to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
> down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
> to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
> the picture tube.
>
>  After everything had dried for about a week, I put it all back together,
> and turned it on.  The tube came on with a bunch of crazy characters on the
> screen.  I took the main board out, propped it up behind the computer,
> tried it again, and the screen came up with the "Diskette ?" prompt.  I put
> in a copy of TRS-DOS (unsubmerged), and hit reset.  ERROR came up in
> 40-column letters.  I shut it off, and pulled the drives.  I stuck (well
> more like jammed- it was too wide) a 5.25" 360 half-height drive in it (it
> ended up at an angle and upside down to fit), and tried that.  That time it
> worked, booting to the TRS-DOS screen, asking for a date.  I typed
> "09/01/98".  Nothing.  I took a key off the keyboard to try to clean it,
> and they are the sealed-switch type.  I had to unsolder each switch, take
> each one apart, clean it, put it back together, and solder it back to the
> board.  However, I just cleaned the <1>, the </>, and the <Enter> key-
> enough for me to enter the date.  It worked.
>
> Now's where I need the help.  Here's what I need:
>
> -5.25" full-height 360k disk drives (any type but Apple - doesn't need to
> be TRS-80).
> -External TRS-80 disk drives.
> -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> -TRS-80 Model III hard drive (can be a clone)
> -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> -TRS-80 Model III software (can be on tape or disk)
>
> I'm also looking for anything for the CoCo Model I and II - ESPECIALLY disk
> drives and a printer.
>
> As always, ThAnX in advance,
> --
>          -Jason
> (roblwill@usaor.net)
>    ICQ#-1730318





From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sat Sep  5 05:22:12 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
In-Reply-To: <199809050336.XAA22007@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <199809051358.JAA16655@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:20:00 -0400
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Jason Willgruber" <roblwill@usaor.net>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
> X-To:          <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

> premature failure and more excess heat.
> > 
> > So the hard drives are a special type huh?
> > 
> They were made by JVC and had a 26 pin (IIRC) connector, with no power
> connector.  My WANG WLTC has the 10MB version of the JVC drive, and my
> Tandy 1400HD has an ALPS 20MB with the same connector.  I think they were
> fairly common in old laptops, but just fairly hard to find now.  The drive
> usually didn't go bad in the Toshiba.  It was the controller.  I know two
> people who replaced the HD, only to find that it didn't work, either.  They
> sent the HD's back to the company and scrapped the computers.
> --       
>          -Jason
> (roblwill@usaor.net)
>    ICQ#-1730318
> 
Ditto in several models of Zenith laptops as well that used
26 pin JVC type HD's.    I REALLY loathe those!
When some finds like this, usually HD is blown (that is from my 
experience).

Best solution is find a old scsi bios based ISA card and a low power
scsi HD avgerage 3 to 8W.  Find a way to adapt it in.  On Zenith 
series, the 8 bit isa slot on back is missing a 5V power,  I hooked 
from 5V source from inside which works.

This is really dodgy hack but that is real start.  I still have the 
ZWL-193-xx laptop with nice grey-blue screen.  Later on when thigns 
is slow, will trace out that pinouts on that motherboard side 2 
connectors using the ISA pins as reference and some tracing.

T1600 is nice BUT uses EGA LCD (wierd, imho should be VGA at that 
point).  Did Toshiba sold those T1600 series with either JVC 26pin 
and real IDE (better!) by different "controller boards"?

My suggestion to your 3200e, pull that whole socket and that sick 
CPU and install a 68pin PLCC and  find a HARRIS or any 80C286 PLCC 
and plug that in.   That CPU is no good after long time of use at 
hotter temperatures and beginning to fail plus that socket is 
getting bad as you have seen.

My choice:  T5200 (cached 386 with vga plasma, prolly use real IDE 
port) or other T4400 using 486 CPU.  What's your pick?

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Sat Sep  5 09:35:59 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: FW: FREE PDP-11/73 with tape drive in Cheshire
References: <6srbfq$c0f$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <35F14C4F.98D9D613@my-dejanews.com>

ATTN: Rescuers in England/UK! This fellow's looking for a home for a
MicroPDP-11/73, and it sounds like it's well-equipped. Please contact
him directly if interested.

-=-=- <snip> -=-=-

From: 
                 helbig@man.ac.uk (Phillip Helbig)
       Newsgroups: 
                 comp.sys.dec
          Subject: 
                 free VAX 11/73 with tape drive in Cheshire
            Date: 
                 5 Sep 1998 12:40:26 GMT
       Organization: 
                 University of Manchester, NRAL
       Message-ID: 
                 <6srbfq$c0f$1@probity.mcc.ac.uk>
         Reply-To: 
                 p.helbig@jb.man.ac.uk
 NNTP-Posting-Host: 
                 multivac.jb.man.ac.uk
            Lines: 
                 48
            Path: 
                
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!peer.news.bb.u-net.net!u-net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!man.ac.uk!HELBIG




As mentioned before, I'm planning on doing inventory on some old VAX 
stuff I have and having a big give-away in a few weeks.  By the way, I'm 
still looking for stuff myself, especially tape drives (8mm) and bigger 
SCSI disks---see http://multivac.jb.man.ac.uk:8000/helbig/vms/vax.txt .
I especially want VAXstation 4000 or VAXstation 3100 boxes.

When picking up my last lot, I decided to save an 11/73 from
destruction, hoping I could give it a good home.  I don't know much
about it except that it has a good tape drive in it and two sizes of
floppies (no, neither is 3?"---5" and 8").  I need to get rid of this
quickly, as it is filling up my car and making it difficult to drive. 
It's a rack-mount. 

If you want it, then come and get it, but you better hurry 'cause it's 
going fast.  Previous experience shows that there is a big demand for 
these old systems.  It's first come, first served.  I would prefer 
people who will take it in any case, as there's not much point in 
looking at it and I want to unload it directly from my car into your 
vehicle.

I could arrange to obtain some manuals and perhaps even software 
distribution media, but not before you pick up the VAX (since I don't 
want to drive anywhere with it in my car); you could come back for them 
or I could probably tell you where to pick them up, perhaps on the way 
to picking up the VAX.

Email is the best way to contact me, though the other methods below are 
OK as well.

I barely managed to get it in the back of a VW Polo estate (the previous
model; it wouldn't fit in a new Polo) with the back seat folded down.  
So you need a car at least as big, where the dimensions of the opening 
are as critical as the volume.  If you're not too far away, I could 
drive it out myself (which might save some effort) but only if you 
promise me to take it in any case.  As far as I know, it is in working 
order and there is at least the OS and some compilers installed on it.  
I don't know WHICH OS is on it.


--
Phillip Helbig                          Email .........
p.helbig@jb.man.ac.uk
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories   Tel. .... +44 1477 571 321 (ext.
297)
Jodrell Bank                            Fax ................ +44 1477
571 618
Macclesfield                            Telex ................ 36149
JODREL G
UK-Cheshire SK11 9DL                    Web ...
http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~pjh/

My opinions are not necessarily those of NRAL or the University of
Manchester.


From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Sat Sep  5 10:01:00 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <000801bdd8dd$fee78640$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

One of my finds this week was an Altos model 586-30E.

It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8086
cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos net".

The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.

Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?

Thanks
Hans Olminkhof



From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep  5 10:52:10 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>


< It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8
< cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
< connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
< number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos ne

Of course ther are no monitor or keyboard plugs... Thats a PC thing. ;)

It expected serial terminals like vt100 or ADM3s and the like.

< The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.
< 
< Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?

No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system 
where there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone 
like turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to 
the local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to 
exchange data.


Allison



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 10:52:00 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809051559.LAA18644@gate.usaor.net>

That wasn't my problem.  I really don't care about the date.  The problem
is, when I typed the date, NOTHING happened, because the keyboard was
gummed up.  I normally just type 11/11/11 at the date prompt, anyway.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:01 PM
> 
> Jason, I think the problem is that the original version of TRSDOS you are
using
> will not accept a date after 1989.
> As you say it boots fine to a date prompt..
> You will need to get LDOS to correct this funny flaw in the operating
system.
> Guess They never expected them to be around so long..
> But it sound like you have it working..
> 
> Phil...
> 



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep  5 11:09:04 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
In-Reply-To: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809051606.LAA05796@trailingedge.com>

On 5 Sep 98, at 11:52, Allison J Parent wrote:

> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system where
> there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone like
> turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to the
> local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
> exchange data.

The Altos 586 ran Xenix off the 8086 IIRC.  My father's office used 
one about that time for their accounting.  They looked at the Altos, 
a Fortune and one other Unix based system at the time and picked 
the Altos.  They felt the company had a little better staying power 
over the others.  Not a bad little system, they ran 3 users with no 
more than 1 meg of memory and could have put a couple more on 
it.  Don't recall the sizes of the disks.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jrice at texoma.net  Sat Sep  5 11:05:00 1998
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
References: <199809051552.AA06913@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <35F1612C.F73020A9@texoma.net>

A lot of Altos systems ran Xenix in a multiuser system with text
terminals served at each port.  Very popular in dentist and medical
offices.

James

Allison J Parent wrote:
> 
> < It is not obvious what it is. Has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard drive, an 8
> < cpu and about 6 or so Z80's. There are no obvious monitor or keyboard
> < connections, just connections marked port 1, port 2.... to port 6 and a
> < number marked as being hard drive expansions and one marked as "Altos ne
> 
> Of course ther are no monitor or keyboard plugs... Thats a PC thing. ;)
> 
> It expected serial terminals like vt100 or ADM3s and the like.
> 
> < The copyright marks on the boards are marked 1982.
> <
> < Anyone know what this is? A 1982 server perhaps?
> 
> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system
> where there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone
> like turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to
> the local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
> exchange data.
> 
> Allison


From altair8800 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  5 11:48:59 1998
From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <19980905164900.27719.qmail@hotmail.com>



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From computercollector at juno.com  Sat Sep  5 11:50:58 1998
From: computercollector at juno.com (Polly Bowery)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Subscribe
Message-ID: <19980905.115100.16582.0.computercollector@juno.com>


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From nmccann at creativecomputing.com  Sat Sep  5 12:19:13 1998
From: nmccann at creativecomputing.com (Nellie McCann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: old computer
Message-ID: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]>

I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
land fill?
I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
Nellie McCann




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:44:18 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: old computer
References: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]>
Message-ID: <35F0CFB2.52AC23B5@sprintmail.com>

Hi Nellie:
eBay.com is a great place to sell old computer equipment..
It however may not be worth your while as it takes time and also shipping to
do it..
Also Apple IIe's are very plentifull and not worth very much..
I usually take my old stuff to the Salvation Army and donate it, problem is I
usually come back with more computer junk than what I left off .. <Grin!!>
And thay make me pay for it to.. <Bummer>!!!

Phil...

Nellie McCann wrote:

> I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
> Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
> land fill?
> I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
> Nellie McCann





From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org  Sat Sep  5 12:37:20 1998
From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Getting rid of old computers -- hint --- Ham Fests.
In-Reply-To: <l03102801b2172238524c@[151.198.114.28]> from Nellie McCann at "Sep 5, 98 01:19:13 pm"
Message-ID: <199809051737.NAA05654@pechter.dyn.ml.org>

> I have an Apple IIe, with two floppy drives, and an imagewriter printer.
> Have you any idea how I could get rid of them short of sending them to the
> land fill?
> I live in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
> Nellie McCann
> 

We sold ours two years ago at the Ham Fest at Allaire Airport a
couple of years ago.  It's now held at the community college at Brookdale.

Bill


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep  5 14:37:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Need submissions for VCF links page
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980905123514.12829C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Hi People.

I'm building out the VCF links page and would like to invite suggestions
or requests for submission for inclusion on the page.

The URL is http://www.siconic.com/vcf/vcflinks.htm.  You can scroll to the
bottom of the page and click on the "Submit a Link" button, or just e-mail
me with a link.

I could especially use some help in fleshing out the specific computer
links groups, such as Commdore, Atari, Radio Shack, etc. as well as adding
sections for additional computer families.

Thanks!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Sep  5 14:57:08 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Altos 586
Message-ID: <19980905.145956.165.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

I used to maintain one of these beasties in the late 1980's.  It used
Altos III
terminals, which were just WYSE-50's with different color plasteek and 
slightly different firmware.

It ran XENIX, which it seemed like it was of Edition 7 vintage.  This
particular
one was a bit tempremental, and went down every few months or so
due to hardware problems.

It used a pair of Quantum 40MB FH hard disks.  It think it could
accomodate
a 60 or an 80 as well, if I'm not mistaken (as I frequently am).

Actually, it was a cool little machine.  It was used for Cellular
Telephone billing,
and I learned how to use Unix on it.  Shoot, I even remember the default
root 
password after the Xenix was installed: 'sotla'  :-)

Jeff

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:09:04 -0500 "David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com>
writes:
>On 5 Sep 98, at 11:52, Allison J Parent wrote:
>
>> No, server is a newer concept. It was an integrated multiuser system 
>where
>> there was one CPU (Z80) per user and likely ran CP/M, MPM (or clone 
>like
>> turbodos).  The 8086 was likely a local server for disks and such to 
>the
>> local z80s.  They all used the bus as a physically short network to
>> exchange data.
>
>The Altos 586 ran Xenix off the 8086 IIRC.  My father's office used 
>one about that time for their accounting.  They looked at the Altos, 
>a Fortune and one other Unix based system at the time and picked 
>the Altos.  They felt the company had a little better staying power 
>over the others.  Not a bad little system, they ran 3 users with no 
>more than 1 meg of memory and could have put a couple more on 
>it.  Don't recall the sizes of the disks.
>
>
>-----
>David Williams - Computer Packrat
>dlw@trailingedge.com
>http://www.trailingedge.com
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From mark_k at iname.com  Sat Sep  5 18:27:26 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Various things
Message-ID: <yam7552.1319.6168936@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

A reply to a previous post and some other things...


On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 Tony Duell wrote (Re: MAC ATTACK):
>The normal sets in the UK are of 2 forms - either integral handle/blade 
>(just like a normal screwdriver) or a set of 1/4" hex insert bits and a 
>handle. In neither case will they fit into a classic Mac, alas. The 
>problem with the insert bit type is that the bit holder is too large to 
>fit into the Mac.

CPC plc sell a "Macintosh Computer Case Screwdriver" for 1.19 pounds (+VAT).
The order code is TL01544. They also sell a more or less identical one (Ideal
brand) for over 5 pounds.



Repair of switchmode PSU from SyDOS 44e external drive case
-----------------------------------------------------------
I am trying to repair the PSU from an old SyQuest external drive case. The PSU
is made by Skynet, model SNP-9533-2. It has +5V and +12V outputs, both rated at
2A.

The fault is a short between the +5V and ground lines. This showed up as a
twitching of the cooling fan, as the unit repeatedly shut down and started up
again. Thanks to the sci.electronics.repair FAQ, I have found the faulty
component. A schottky rectifier has gone short circuit. There are two identical
rectifiers in parallel. The other one is okay.

So, I need to find a replacement for the broken rectifier, which is marked as
follows:
        31DQ
         04
         3F
According to the data sheet available from www.irf.com, the specs are:
   I     Rectangular waveform      3.3A
    F(AV)
   V                               40V
    RRM
   I     @ tp=5us sine             470A
    FSM
   V     @ 3Apk, T = 25C           0.55V
    F             J
   T                               -40 to 125 C
    J

Will it be okay to use any diode of higher rating than the original? Can anyone
recommend a suitable replacement, or does someone have a spare 31DQ04 diode?



Mac SCSI cable
--------------
I have a Mac SCSI cable, which has 50 way Centronics type connectors on both
ends. On one end there is a small "extension", the body of which is about 2cm
deep. It has a male Centronics connector on one end, female on the other. The
Apple logo is moulded into it, and the Apple part # is 590-0304-A. What is the
purpose of this?

When it is in the SCSI cable, I cannot boot (my non-Apple computer) without
having the external MO drive turned on. Without this thing,it works fine. Maybe
something to do with TERMPWR?



Wangtek tape streamers
----------------------
I was lucky enough to find Wangtek 5525ES and 5150ES SCSI tape streamers the
other week, along with a couple of Adaptec PC SCSI controller cards. One of
these, assuming that they work okay, should finally allow me to read (if not
make use of) my Amiga UNIX tape.

Did the Wangtek streamers normally come with any PC driver software, or is this
not necessary?



Hitachi CD-ROMs
---------------
I have some old external Hitachi CD-ROMs (model CDR-1503S, I think). These have
37-way D connectors on the back, and they came with a couple of 37-way D
cables. It looks like you can daisy-chain two or three of these to one PC.

The Hitachi web site was unhelpful. Does anyone know anything about these? Do
they need a special interface card, or do they plug into the 5.25" drive port
on the back of my PC (which is a 37-way D connector)? Does anyone have suitable
drivers? It would be a shame to get rid of them, since they seem to work; at
least, after powering on I can eject and insert discs.



Sinclair Oxford 300 calculator
------------------------------
I bought one of these the other week. Is this the same Sinclair as produced the
ZX80, ZX81 etc.? A quick description:
Unit is powered by 9V PP3 type battery, has an 8 digit red flourescent display.
A minimal range of scientific funtions; (arc)sin, cos, tan, ln, e^x, square
root and reciprocal. There is a switch on the back to choose between degree and
radian modes. Calculation of (for example) the sine of a number takes about two
seconds. Unless I haven't figured out how to use it properly, the answers it
gives are rather inaccurate; for example:
        square root of 2 = 1.4139192
        e = 2.6108 (obtained by entering 1 and using e^x function)
It may be faulty; repeatedly pressing the 0 button causes the number entered to
be variously 22000000, 22220000 or 20000000. (Though I just tried this again,
and it seems okay now.)


-- Mark



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:22:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
In-Reply-To: <199809050119.VAA29193@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 09:12:14 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFM2Z-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:27:38 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980904181730.29915E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 4, 98 06:18:08 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFM7h-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:39:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:10:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMJL-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:41:49 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:23:29 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMLQ-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 12:45:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050337.XAA22024@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 11:30:38 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFMPD-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep  5 17:57:30 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Toshiba T4600
Message-ID: <35F1C1D9.438423A1@bbtel.com>

I am in need of a few things for a Toshiba T4600 VGA 486 laptop. The
unit could probably use a new battery, this one holds for less than 5
mins after all night charging. I'm also interested in the users manual
and possibly a docking bay, or at least the model number or part number
of a suitable docking bay. Other reasonable items such as PCMCIA items
that will work on it I may be interested in as well.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From manney at lrbcg.com  Sat Sep  5 17:59:03 1998
From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Followup to Toshiba 3100e
Message-ID: <01bdd920$c6af4cc0$1428a2ce@manney>

I've found those on various 286 systems. I made a key fob out of mine!
>>
>> The 286 chip in the T3100 series was smaller than the regular 286 chip
>> (IIRC).  The "fun" part about it was that it just dropped into the socked
>> (loosely), and was held in place by the heatsink that snapped on top [one
>> of Toshiba's *many* bad designs).  If the computer would get bumped




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 17:38:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Various things
In-Reply-To: <yam7552.1319.6168936@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk> from "Mark" at Sep 5, 98 11:27:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFQyA-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep  6 00:24:37 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>



  Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.

 I have discovered recently a very dangerous on-line book service, 
which, in my *very* humble opinion, just beats the bloody tar out of 
the 'major' ones.. (Amazon, Barnes, etc).  Some of you Listmembers 
may already be aware of these folks.. if not, the URL is;

                     www.abebooks.com

  I'm *definitely* in Big $$$ Trouble.  I have a very large library, 
around 10K volumes, journals, periodicals, papers...  collected over 
many years. A lot of it is old, wierd, rare, fringe-science, 
technology, engineering, computing, etc. 

  Now I find ABE (American Book Exchange) and they've got titles 
I've been searching for for *ages*...  including a book I read in 4th 
Grade and never heard of since...   oh dear: most of the booksellers 
on ABE take credit cards...  damn, damn, damn...!

  I've already found over $1K of stuff I must have..  NOW!

  Anyway, I hereby disclaim and hold myself inurred and harmless 
from anyone who goes bankrupt because I turned them on to ABE.

  Just try searching with Van Nostrand or Wiley or Howard Sams 
entered in the 'Publisher' slot...  or pdp-11 in the 'keywords' 
section....


  I'm in **trouble**   !


  
Cheers   ;}

  John




From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 22:40:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809060544.BAA21141@gate.usaor.net>

> Stage 1 :  LART the cousin....
> 
> Stage 2 : It may not have done that much damage. Remove the coin and 
> clean up the board. What components did it seem to have come into contact

> with?. There's not a lot on that board that can't be replaced,
actually...
> 
I took it off, and it looks as though some resistors (I think) had burned
up (can't recognize the value coding), and some of the traces and also been
cooked (broken, and blackened).
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sat Sep  5 22:40:49 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809060544.BAA21146@gate.usaor.net>

> The original Tandy drives were normally made by a company called 'Texas 
> Peripherals', and are identical to Tandon drives.
> 
They're both actual Tandon drives, dated from 1981.

> Start by taking them apart a little way.
> 
> Unplug all the cables going to the PCB on top of the drive, take out the 
> 2 screws and slip off the PCB. If there's a separate motor control board 
> on the back (old drives have this), then remove that as well.
> 
> > -Cable to connect external drives to the computer.
> 
> That's easy to make. It's just a length of 34 way ribbon cable with edge 
> connectors crimped to it. Most people these days don't pull pins as Tandy

> did, but instead select the drive using the links on the drive PCB.
> 
<snip>

I did this to one drive, and got it working, but the other is beyond
repair.  A penny was once dropped into the computer by my friends 4 yr. old
cousin.  The penny landed on top of the top drive PCB, shorting some stuff
and fusing the penny to a few components.  I need at least one drive.

> > -Internal cable connecting RS-232 adapter to the main board.
> 
> If you're _really_ stuck for this, remove the connectors from the CPU 
> board and RS232 board and solder some 0.1" SIL headers in place. I seem 
> to remember it's 20 pins. Then use a 40 pin (or whatever) IDC ribbon 
> cable + connectors (like a very short IDE cable) to link them up. Just 
> use the same row of holes in the 2 connectors.
> 

I may just try making my own cable out of an old piece of ribbon cable,
some clear plastic, and some Super Glue.  That's basically what the
original one was, anyway.

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sat Sep  5 21:27:18 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFMLQ-000IyPC@p850ug1>
References: <199809050229.WAA10587@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 4, 98 10:23:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>

Well it looks like this thread has played out. Damn it was a good one. Its
like going to an advanced seminar on electronics. Thanks Tony and Phillip
I can now face PSU repair with much more confidence. This one was definitely a 
keeper. I'll append it to the earlier PSU thread and save it to my personal 
classiccmp FAQ. 
 Does anyone know the status of the archives ? I haven't been able to access 
the site for well over a year. I would be a shame if all this info on classic
computers has vanished , while the sex-life of ants is archived on Deja News.
I know some of you are acquainted with Bill ,would it be possible to find out
so that remedial steps can be taken ?

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Sun Sep  6 01:38:28 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>

I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
of that vintage?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep  6 01:46:15 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980906014217.13363B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

>  Does anyone know the status of the archives ?

Kevan Heydon has been the keeper of the light for a while now:
	http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/

It'd be great if somebody is maintaining an up-to-date FAQ with some of
the pearls fo wisdom that were sent to this list.  URL anybody?

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep  6 01:50:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980906014651.13363C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
> of that vintage?

Heathkit made at least three HERO's (the HERO 1, the HERO Jr., and the
HERO 2000).  There's at least one company that is still making HERO-like
bots, but I think the price was something like $5000 last I checked.

But don't despair.  Take a look at what my girlfriend just ordered for my
birthday present:
	http://www.legomindstorms.com/

-- Doug



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sun Sep  6 07:39:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
References: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <35F28270.BE3152FE@bbtel.com>



John Lawson wrote:

>   Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.

You really should have, now I may have to claim bankruptcy as well.
Thanks for the info.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 22:30:53 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Booklovers: Danger!
References: <Pine.3.89.9809052231.A7629-0100000@netcom3>
Message-ID: <35F201ED.F5ED5F59@sprintmail.com>

Thank alot John!!!! <Grin>
    I think I just spent a couple of hundred dollars after looking at
this web site on old out of print books.. Man What a great source for old
computer books.. Really great !!
Thanks for the info...

Phil....


John Lawson wrote:

>   Maybe I shouldn't post this....  O wot'th'ell, here goes.
>
>  I have discovered recently a very dangerous on-line book service,



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sat Sep  5 23:08:23 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35F20AB7.6CF0F937@sprintmail.com>

I have an Armdroid Robotic (Circa early 80's) Arm by D & M Computing Inc..
This is a really elaborate Arm with computer interface and small computer
controller included, with a hugh manual about 6 inches thick on its programing and
operation.. The thing is  heavy (about 40lbs) and built like a rock. Wondering if
anyone knows anything about this unit. It was previously used in colleges for
Robotics training. It needs some minor repairs, some of the cables on the stepper
motors have come loose, and a couple of pulleys need replacement..

Phil...

Jim wrote:

> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
> of that vintage?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------





From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Sep  6 12:35:17 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980906103517.036c4a00@agora.rdrop.com>

At 12:38 AM 9/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
>80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other
robots
>of that vintage?

I have a HERO-1 and HERO-2000 in my collection.  Was there something
specific you wanted to know about them?

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sun Sep  6 10:10:47 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:28 2005
Subject: Unusual monitor has problem, Tobishi?!  (Skip if you're not elec
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980906103517.036c4a00@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <199809061847.OAA22271@commercial.cgocable.net>

A customer dropped this dead 14" monitor in my lap
and got a new monitor.

This is not your normal "clone" design monitor.  Three things;  the 
brand is Tobishi, this is 100% analog user controls but internally 
has uprocessor to select modes that is number 2.  Finally the 
shocker is it is decoupled horizontal type.   One driver for each; 
one for flyback and one for horizontal yoke coil.   Both trannys is 
controlled by one area fair amount of circuitry.

That tranny for that yoke is blown that all, nothing else is cooked 
thanks to good design of PSU protection.  BU2520AF is the one, it 
seemed to have failed from bad mounting with HS paste,  fell off 
after a gentle touch to it after the mounting screw is out.  The 
diode scubber is good.

Will check out caps but I suspect most are still good

Thanks.

Jason D.
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:33:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <35F20AB7.6CF0F937@sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 6, 98 00:08:23 am
Message-ID: <m0zFigT-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:24:40 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 12:27:09 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809060544.BAA21141@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 5, 98 11:40:27 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFian-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz  Sun Sep  6 15:56:36 1998
From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809050216.WAA08557@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <l03010d00b218a62aa2b5@[130.123.73.41]>

>to plug it in.  I started by taking it apart, and hosing the whole thing
>down.  Then I took all the boards out, and set them in front of heater/fan
>to dry (low power).  I did the same to the disk drives, the keyboard, and
>the picture tube.

Well water (especially Distilled water) is a great start for this sort of
thing.
However I always rinse the boards thoughly with ethanol (If you can
submerge them for a half hour or so even better), this will displace the
water in all of those hard to get places. After this I would then go
through the drying out process...Oh BTW do this is a well ventilated
area...you can get very drunk from the fumes :-), take note that ethanol
can attack some plastics and may affect some solder masks and screen
printing, so you may want to try iso-propyl alcohol...its less abusive.

Cheers




k.j.whitehead@massey.ac.nz

Keith Whitehead
Electronics Technician
Electronics Services
Institute of Fundamental Sciences
Massey University
Palmerston North
New Zealand
5301





From cdrmool at interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 15:59:10 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Pixel 80
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980906165023.27996G-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Does anyone have any doc's or info on a "Pixel 80"?  A nice fellow in
Guelph Ontario was kind enough to pass one on to me and I'd like to get it
running.  On quick perusal, it has a 5.25" drive on the front, and at the
back a centronics output, 9- 9pin and 4- 25 pin D shell connectors.  The
date says 9/83. Its the size of the bar fridge I had in university and
weighs a bloody ton.  It was manufactured by "Instumentation Labratory
Inc."  Dominique who gave it to me says that he contacted them but they 
say they know nothing about it.  There is a web site for IL but its no
help.

 Colan






From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Sun Sep  6 12:02:47 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <199809062039.QAA22653@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:24:40 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..

In the past this newsgroups used to post often for faq but now that 
Sams owner of this faq now posts himself in reponse to other netters 
Q's and his sig line has this line which I will show.

www.repairfaq.org

Jason D.

> 
> -tony
 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 16:00:22 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062109.RAA29438@gate.usaor.net>

I got a new drive (well, to me at least).  It was from an XT clone, and
works great.  When I took the fried one apart, I found out that the spindle
bearing was rusted, so I took the heads, motor, and everything else that
looked good out, and junked the rest.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 1:27 PM
> 
> I have the schematics for that drive (both in the Tandy and IBM tech 
> manuals). So I could probably identify the burnt components. What chips 
> are they near (either type - like NE592, or circuit reference - like U1).

> 
> Burnt traces can be repaired - I do it all the time....
> 
> 
> > --       
> >          -Jason
> > (roblwill@usaor.net)
> >    ICQ#-1730318
> > 
> 
> -tony
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 16:06:03 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062111.RAA29748@gate.usaor.net>

I pretty much got it working (aside from a few keys on the keyboard).  I
basically had to just hose the boards down, because they weren't just
submerged in water, they were submerged in sewage.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Keith Whitehead <K.J.Whitehead@massey.ac.nz>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 4:56 PM
> 
> Well water (especially Distilled water) is a great start for this sort of
> thing.
> However I always rinse the boards thoughly with ethanol (If you can
> submerge them for a half hour or so even better), this will displace the
> water in all of those hard to get places. After this I would then go
> through the drying out process...Oh BTW do this is a well ventilated
> area...you can get very drunk from the fumes :-), take note that ethanol
> can attack some plastics and may affect some solder masks and screen
> printing, so you may want to try iso-propyl alcohol...its less abusive.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> k.j.whitehead@massey.ac.nz
> 
> Keith Whitehead
> Electronics Technician
> Electronics Services
> Institute of Fundamental Sciences
> Massey University
> Palmerston North
> New Zealand
> 5301
> 
> 
> 


From pgrammen at sonic.net  Sun Sep  6 16:32:05 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <199809062039.QAA22653@commercial.cgocable.net>
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
 <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>

I picked up a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer for my collection, and
found a fair amount of info on it on the net. One thing I could use is a
pinout on the phone jack. Also, I gather that this went to an accoustic
coupler. Can I wire it so I can use it directly with a modular phone line?
I got this working with an external 1200 Baud modem, but I wanted to use
the internal 300 baud modem instead.
Thanks,
Paul



From oajones at bright.net  Sun Sep  6 17:22:08 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
	 <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <35F30B10.56C@bright.net>

Paul Grammens wrote:
> 
> I picked up a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer for my collection, and
> found a fair amount of info on it on the net. One thing I could use is a
> pinout on the phone jack. Also, I gather that this went to an accoustic
> coupler. Can I wire it so I can use it directly with a modular phone line?
> I got this working with an external 1200 Baud modem, but I wanted to use
> the internal 300 baud modem instead.
> Thanks,
> Paul

Hi Paul,

Here is the pinout for the phone jack:
Pin No.      Symbol      Description
---------    --------    ------------------------------------
1            TL          Conventional Telephone Unit
2            GND         Logic GND
3            R x MD      Direct Connection to Tel Line (RING)
4            R x MC      Acoustic Coupler Connection (MIC)
5            T x MC      Acousitc Coupler Connection (Speaker)
6            VDD
7            T x MD      Direct Connection to Tel Line (TIP)
8            RP          Ringing Paluse

I hope this helps.

--Alan


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 15:54:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Unusual monitor has problem, Tobishi?!  (Skip if you're not elec
In-Reply-To: <199809061847.OAA22271@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Sep 6, 98 03:10:47 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFlpG-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 18:17:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net> from "Paul Grammens" at Sep 6, 98 02:32:05 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFo3p-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 18:19:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062109.RAA29438@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 05:00:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFo5p-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From mmcmanus at direct.ca  Sun Sep  6 18:29:00 1998
From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (M McManus)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <000701bdd9ee$2188cfe0$4c8617d8@mmcmanus>

Subsribe mike mcmanus
-------------- next part --------------
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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep  6 18:44:37 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809061618.A25072-0100000@netcom15>



   Well, I fired up my recently-acquired uVAX II/RC up this 
afternoon, and whaddaya know...  it boots!

  Thanks to the reams of information which I have dutifully stored 
away, I was able to get the system passwords reset, and I have VMS 
V5.4 signed on. Now I need that DECUS Hobbyist license.

  This machine originally booted into some kind of communications 
software..  but it went by too fast to read much more than TCP/IP 
and (I think) Excelan, or EXlan, or something....

  This Machine has 1 RD53, 1 TK50(?) and a Cipher Data flatbed 9trk 
tape drive. (no floppy)

  The cartridge drive is not happy.. it will load the tape, but the 
red load light stays on, and VMS reports "device not found", and 
SHOW DEV shows it as unmounted.

  I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher 
drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info 
yet on where to look for the device drivers and other procedures.  
The Cipher came installed with this machine, so I'm assuming at some 
point someone was using it...  maybe.  ;}

  ANYWAY: Thanks to Allison and Megan for various bits of wisdom 
that I have vicariously snagged and now put to good use.

  Now to wedge this thing into the rest of the gear in the Computing
Centre (AKA Rapidly Shrinking Living Room). Sigh. Why did it have to
be Minicomputers??? Why couldn't it have been Stamps??  Bottlecaps?? 
Toothpicks from Around the World????? 


   Cheers

John




From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 18:39:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net>

Cool.  where would I get a copy of LDOS, and would I still be able to run
my TRS-DOS programs?  Is there any program for the IBM PC that will allow
disks from a TRS-80 to be read on the PC?  Is there one that will allow the
same to read TRS-80 Model 600 disks on the PC?  Or on the Model III?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 7:19 PM
> 
> 
> That's probably a double-sided drive. If you modify the cable slightly to

> connect up the side select line (I will have to look up the details), and

> run somthing like LDOS, then you can have 360K on a disk. 
> 
> -tony
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 19:03:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 07:39:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFomX-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 19:15:04 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070020.UAA21755@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 8:03 PM
> 
> I believe it's available from Tim Mann's TRS-80 web page. The author has 
> allowed it to be copied for personal use. Of course getting it onto a 
> disk is another problem.
> 
What's the address?  I may be able to use Telcom to transfer the files.

> Does anyone in the States on this list have it, and would be prepared to 
> copy it, I wonder?
> 
> There used to be a commercial program to do the opposite (allow TRS-80s 
> to read/write MS-DOS disks). No idea where you'd get that from now,
though.
> 

Do you remember what the name of it is?

--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Sun Sep  6 19:26:10 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8280553@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 19:22:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070020.UAA21755@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 08:15:04 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFp4q-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Sun Sep  6 20:13:44 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <3602327a.285279059@insight>

It was that History Channel program, wasn't it?  That was a really
nice look at some old footage I'd never seen before.  I'm hoping it
will come by again so I can tape it, or maybe I can order the tape
from them.  I've been absolutely crazy for any kind of robot since I
was a small child.  I've got two Hero 1's in my collection, along with
about 40 lbs of books, manuals, schematics, mechanical diagrams, etc.
I'd love to have a Hero 2000 (or other similar vintage) to go with
them, but the last couple on eBay have gone the way of the Altair, and
there were even _fewer_ of these ever sold!  I've got a page up about
"orphaned" robots on my web site that you might find interesting.
Some good pictures if nothing else.

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:38:28 -0600 (MDT), you wrote:

>I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
>80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other robots
>of that vintage?

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 20:22:36 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070135.VAA02367@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 8:22 PM
> 
> http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80.html/
> 
> I seem to remember that you can't make a bootable LDOS disk by just 
> copying the files onto it, and that some of the files have to be in the 
> right place (or their directory entries do). 
> 

Thanks.  I'll have to check it out.

> What version of TRS-DOS are you running at the moment?
> 

I think it's 1.3.  It's on an old Mortgage investment program disk that's
been sitting in my garage loft for three years (temperature ranges from -10
to 120 degrees F).  I'm surprised that it even worked.

> > > There used to be a commercial program to do the opposite (allow
TRS-80s 
> > > to read/write MS-DOS disks). No idea where you'd get that from now,
> > though.
> > > 
> > 
> > Do you remember what the name of it is?
> 
> TRSCROSS, I think. Maybe HYPERCROSS (I think they were both programs to 
> read 'foreign' disks on the TRS-80). 
> 
O.K.  I'll try  to see if I can find it or not.  Was there a program that
would let you run Apple ][ Programs?  I have about 100 program disks
without a working apple (I actually have a Franklin 2000).  Or does the
disk controller thing come into play?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 20:37:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070135.VAA02367@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 09:22:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zFqEw-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com  Sun Sep  6 21:18:29 1998
From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
References: <Pine.3.89.9809061618.A25072-0100000@netcom15>
Message-ID: <35F34275.A5D26F32@my-dejanews.com>

John Lawson wrote:

	<snip>

	Congrats on getting it to boot!

>   The cartridge drive is not happy.. it will load the tape, but the
> red load light stays on, and VMS reports "device not found", and
> SHOW DEV shows it as unmounted.

	Ah. I've seen that before in TK50's. What you need to do is pull it
out, remove the cover and head guard, and clean the head. Use the same
procedures you would for wet-cleaning of professional audio tape decks.

>   I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher
> drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info

	Its device name should be MUB0. You might load a scratch tape and then
try the following command.

	mount /foreign MUB0:

	Include the colon. If it works, you should see the thing move its reels
momentarily and then stop.

	Best of luck!


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 17:35:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8280553@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com>

On  6 Sep 98 at 20:26, Marion Bates wrote:

> I have a VIC-20 that didn't come with a video cable, but I later found what
> appeared to be the right one. The part that plugs into the computer has a
> half-circle of five connectors, and on the other end there are two RCA-type
> plugs, one red and one black. Regardless of which one I plug into the
> "video-in" port on my TV, I get perfect video (why does it work with both?) --
> but no audio, whether I plug the second RCA plug into the left or the right
> "sound-in" jack on the TV. Is this the wrong cable, or is there a problem with
> using a stereo TV? (Or is there a fault somewhere?)
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> -- MB
> 
>
 It's been a while and my VICs are buried under a pile of other stuff but I
think the problem is that the box is a RF modulator that has to go directly
into your TV to split the signal into audio and video. I don't remember there 
being 2 RCA outlets on the modulator but in any case you need to connect it to 
your TV with a switchbox like the ones used by Atari 2600 and CoCos. They
have a switch to change between TV or Computer and attach to your antennae or
cable inputs. IIRC the 5 pins were +5v, ground, video hi, video lo, audio. The 
switch- boxes are readily available at any Radio-Shack.
  The 'official' VIC-20 FAQ by Ward Shrake is posted at:
    http://home1.gte.net/salzman
unless it's been changed recently. An excellent FAQ.

ciao		Larry 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Sun Sep  6 17:35:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Archives ? was Re: Osborne 01 computer smoked..
In-Reply-To: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809060630.CAA01195@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 02:27:18 am
Message-ID: <199809070238.WAB16673@smtp.interlog.com>

On  6 Sep 98 at 18:24, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > Well it looks like this thread has played out. Damn it was a good one. Its
> 
> Well, feel free to continue it, or to start a similar one :-). IMHO 
> questions on repair/restoration techniques are on-topic here, and I 
> certainly enjoy contributing to such threads...
> 
> > like going to an advanced seminar on electronics. Thanks Tony and Phillip
> > I can now face PSU repair with much more confidence. This one was definitely a 
> 
> If you're serious about doing SMPSU repair (especially after a 
> primary-side blow-up), then I don't think we've covered it all by any 
> means. There is an excellent FAQ for the sci.electronics.repair usenet 
> group (search for it on the web), which has a section on swtich-mode 
> PSUs, and I'd recomend reading that (rather than me just typing great 
> sections from memory). Of course you're welcome to ask questions about it 
> here if you like.
> 
> -tony
> 
  Yes I went to look for it on my old bookmark at paranoia.com and
eventually found it had moved to 
 http://www.repairfaq.org

Great bunch of FAQs for electronic repair but this m-l suppliments it
as does sci.electronics.repair and Sam Goldwasser the guru who compiled the 
FAQs who is usually on it.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 21:33:56 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Tony Duell <ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 9:37 PM
> 
> 
> Well, you'll not be able to read an Apple ][ disk on anything but an 
> Apple (or clone), or maybe a PC with a special disk controller board. 
> 
> And even if you got the program onto a TRS-80 disk, the TRS-80 and Apple 
> have different CPUs (Z80 and 6502), different graphics systems, etc. A 
> BASIC program might be able to be translated, but if it uses PEEK/POKE, 
> or if it uses graphics, or has machine code routines, or anything like 
> that, then it would be quicker to rewrite it.
> 
> Anyway, Apple ]['s are not exactly rare, are they?
> 
> 
They're not rare at all.  I just thought it would be neat to have a
computer that would run almost everything.  I guess that's yet to be made. 
I have a Franklin 2000, but it's sort of screwed up in it's own way.  It
has two video outputs, that don't work simultaneously.  One's 40 column,
one's 80 column.  To use an 80 column program, you have to turn off the
computer, connect the 80 column to the monitor, and reboot.  To use the 40
column, you need to turn it off, connect to the 40 column, and then reboot.
 It also uses Integer Basic, not ProDos, like most of the Apples.  
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
> 


From oajones at bright.net  Sun Sep  6 22:17:34 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
Message-ID: <35F3504E.D02@bright.net>

I was given an old Tandy 3 microcomputer. The button on the right side
of the keyboard says "48K." Was this computer a newer version of the
TRS-80 Model III? I am going to try and restore this computer. Right now
it has a video problem. The screen lights up and has zig-zags on the
screen. Also the contrast and brightness knobs are frozen and move just
a little bit left or right.

--Alan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep  6 22:48:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980906204734.7159F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> Cool.  where would I get a copy of LDOS, and would I still be able to run
> my TRS-DOS programs?  Is there any program for the IBM PC that will allow
> disks from a TRS-80 to be read on the PC?  Is there one that will allow the
> same to read TRS-80 Model 600 disks on the PC?  Or on the Model III?

Too many list members have asked this question too many times in the past
several weeks.  Time to update the FAQ (and then have it automatically
posted every two weeks).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From roblwill at usaor.net  Sun Sep  6 22:46:15 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
Message-ID: <199809070352.XAA23059@gate.usaor.net>

It's not a newer version.  My TRS-80 Model III also has 48K.  It was the
top-of-the-line Model III.  When I first got mine, it had been sitting in a
basement for 2 years, and the basement had been flooded when the septic
tank backed up.  when I cleaned it all out, and turned it on, I had the
same problem with the screen.  I gave it a good, solid whack on the back,
and it's been working fine ever since (not too hard, though -  you don't
want to put a hole in the back).  I think that the problem may have been
that a couple of the chips got either corroded or slightly unseated, and
smacking the back of it reseated them.  That may not be your problem,
though.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: oajones <oajones@bright.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Tandy 3
> Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 11:17 PM
> 
> I was given an old Tandy 3 microcomputer. The button on the right side
> of the keyboard says "48K." Was this computer a newer version of the
> TRS-80 Model III? I am going to try and restore this computer. Right now
> it has a video problem. The screen lights up and has zig-zags on the
> screen. Also the contrast and brightness knobs are frozen and move just
> a little bit left or right.
> 
> --Alan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep  6 23:25:30 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980906212343.7159I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> I have a Franklin 2000, but it's sort of screwed up in it's own way.  It
<...>
>  It also uses Integer Basic, not ProDos, like most of the Apples.  

Integer Basic and ProDOS are not synonymous.  You might be referring to
DOS 3.3, which a lot of people (like me) prefer to ProDOS for a number of
reasons.  At any rate, the reason it doesn't run ProDOS is because Apple
specifically crippled ProDOS so it couldn't run on clones.  There are
patches that can be applied to ProDOS to make it work on clones like the
Franklin.  I just don't know what they are or where to find them.  A good
place to start would be to pose the question on comp.sys.apple2.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From transit at primenet.com  Mon Sep  7 01:14:49 1998
From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980906231345.8526A-100000@usr06.primenet.com>


On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:
> They're not rare at all.  I just thought it would be neat to have a
> computer that would run almost everything.  I guess that's yet to be made. 

You could kind of "cheat" with some of the emulator programs out there,
but . . .:-)



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 01:24:38 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <m0zFomX-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809062346.TAA17555@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 07:39:56 pm
Message-ID: <199809070621.BAA07285@trailingedge.com>

On 7 Sep 98, at 1:03, Tony Duell wrote:

> I believe it's available from Tim Mann's TRS-80 web page. The author has
> allowed it to be copied for personal use. Of course getting it onto a disk
> is another problem.

On Tim's page (I believe) there is also a Linux TRS-80 Model 1/3/4 
emulator (called xtrs) that can use the Linux box's floppy drives as 
the emulator's drives.  A couple of days ago, I setup an old 486 
with a 5.25" floppy and installed Linux.  Set up the emulator and 
downloaded the LDOS from Tim's page.  Used the emulator to 
make a new LDOS boot disk using the floppy drive.  Took the disk 
to my Model III and it booted right up.  I've used that technique to 
move several pieces of TRS-80 Model III software now and I'm 
working on Model I software using the Model III as a go between.  
Works great and is just one more example of some useful software 
for Linux.  At least for collectors of old TRS-80s. :-)  The xtrs 
emulator is pretty good although it isn't really easy to swap 
emulated disks.  Next I'm going to try it out with my Model 4.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Mon Sep  7 03:25:19 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <92034F0DD8@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On  4 Sep 98 at 18:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
> "language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
> built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
> normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
> slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
> instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
> 3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
> board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
> expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
> slot.

Can anyone explain the reason why Apple put the Aux slot directly in 
line with slot 3 on the European version of the IIe? For example, I 
have a full length Ramworks III board in the Aux slot and this 
completely obscures slot 3 so an accelerator so Sam's trick with the 
Transwarp will not work.

Phil


**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From franke at sbs.de  Mon Sep  7 06:06:52 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Apple II parts
Message-ID: <199809070850.KAA01581@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> It might be worth mentioning that Apple //e's don't have a slot 0.  The
>> "language card" (really just an additional 16K of bank-switched RAM) is
>> built-in.  Also, on the //e slot 3 is tied in to the auxiliary slot, where
>> normally RAM and 80-column boards go.  If you've got something in the aux.
>> slot, you can't put anything in slot 3, with some exceptions.  For
>> instance, I have an AE TransWarp accelerator board in my //e that has a
>> 3.3Mhz 6502 CPU which overrides the motherboard 6502 upon bootup.  This
>> board is great in that it plugs into slot 3, in conjunction with my
>> expanded 80-column card in the aux. slot, and therefore does not waste a
>> slot.

> Can anyone explain the reason why Apple put the Aux slot directly in 
> line with slot 3 on the European version of the IIe? For example, I 
> have a full length Ramworks III board in the Aux slot and this 
> completely obscures slot 3 so an accelerator so Sam's trick with the 
> Transwarp will not work.

THe AUX slot _is_ slot #3. just some different signals. For
any 'regular' use you can only use the slot #3 connector or
AUX connector. The Transwarp is just (like some other very
special cards) desigend for uste in #3 while AUX is hosting
the 'regular' card. In fact, any card, able to run in slot
#0 (using no slot resources like RAM and (E)PROM space) will
coexist in #3 with a card in AUX.

The location was choosed to avoid that owners will plug in
two cards using the slot resources into AUX and #3, since
this (may) result in address conflicts. A far better solution
than any message in a manual for the usual I-am-an-expert-I-
-never-read-manuals user.

Gruss
H.


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep  7 01:15:33 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
Message-ID: <199809071020.GAA08472@smtp.interlog.com>

 I was going thru a bunch of old material and I ran across this IBM
manual that I had squirrelled away from a garbage find in the early 80s
that also included a bunch of Bytes. It's a 6th edition (Mar 79) and says it 
applies to Release 4 of OS/VS1, Release 3 of OS/VS2 ,Release 2 of VM/370,
DOS/VSE, and all other releases
 A descrptive heading says "This manual describes the OS/VS -DOS/VSE-
VM/370 assembler language. It's a 450 page XEROXed copy.
 I know ziltch about non-micros and am wondering if this is of any value
(in the intellectual sense) ?

ciao		larry  
lwalker@interlog.com


From franke at sbs.de  Mon Sep  7 08:13:01 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
Message-ID: <199809071056.MAA23595@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>  I was going thru a bunch of old material and I ran across this IBM
> manual that I had squirrelled away from a garbage find in the early 80s
> that also included a bunch of Bytes. It's a 6th edition (Mar 79) and says it 
> applies to Release 4 of OS/VS1, Release 3 of OS/VS2 ,Release 2 of VM/370,
> DOS/VSE, and all other releases
>  A descrptive heading says "This manual describes the OS/VS -DOS/VSE-
> VM/370 assembler language. It's a 450 page XEROXed copy.
>  I know ziltch about non-micros and am wondering if this is of any value
> (in the intellectual sense) ?

/360, /370 ASSM is an brilliant example how simple, clear
and beautiful a (CISC) processor can be. I know now other
assembler so simple, so strikt and easy to implement (and
I'm still an Assm programmer since 20 years).

With exraordinary simple thinking one can easy develop all
stages of an execution pipline for this opcode. Staight
forward. Did I say develop ? There is noting to develop -
reading the opcodes is like reading a step by step instruction
to build the CPU.

Ok, maybe I'm overemphasing, but I love this structure.
I did almost any microprocessor (from 1802 to 9900 and Z80)
in the past 20 years, and some of the bigger architectures,
but none equals the /370.

So, if you want to have fun, take the OP-Code table and
solve the puzzle - or just keep the manual for 'real world'
tasks, since this Assm is still valid for IBM (and compatible)
Mainframes. I bet your taxes are calculated on one of 'em.

Gruss
H.
P.S.:
 I did several interpreters for micros - first on the KIM :).

P.P.S.:
 Shure there have been some realy genieous extensions to the
 /370 architecture (like maybe the stack engine in the SIEMENS
 X calss CPUs), beautiful and powerfull themself, but they are
 still don't met the elegance of the basic instruction set.

P.P.P.S.:
 And of course there are several good Microprcessors - but again:
 not as elegant, simple and beautifull than the /370.


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Mon Sep  7 07:29:44 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II alive
In-Reply-To: <35F34275.A5D26F32@my-dejanews.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Sep 6, 98 07:18:29 pm
Message-ID: <199809071229.IAA16606@shell.monmouth.com>

Bruce Lane wrote:
> John Lawson wrote:
> 
> 	<snip>
> 
> 	Congrats on getting it to boot!
> 
> >   I would *really* like to discover how to mount/access the Cipher
> > drive..  I have VMS 4.3 manuals, but I haven't found the right info
> 
> Its device name should be MUB0. You might load a scratch tape and then
> try the following command.
>  
>  	mount /foreign MUB0:
> 
> 	Include the colon. If it works, you should see the thing move its reels
> momentarily and then stop.
> 
> 	Best of luck!
> 

I didn't get the controller the Cipher is on -- but it could also be 
emulating a TS11 (MSA0:).

Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From danjo at xnet.com  Mon Sep  7 08:49:42 1998
From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: (fwd) free/cheap Kaypro computers (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980907084806.14185A-100000@typhoon>


Noticed this on the local forsale list - go for it guys/gals 8-)
Please contact him directly - all info is in the message.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: epement@ripco.com (Eric Pement)
Newsgroups: chi.forsale
Subject: free/cheap Kaypro computers
Date: 7 Sep 1998 05:19:38 GMT
Organization: Ripco, Chicago's Oldest Online Information Service

  I have 10 Kaypro CP/M computers for sale or for free. Best offer 
takes it (I'm hoping $5 or $10 for any working computer; any nonworking 
Kaypro is free), but if you don't have any money and can pick them up 
here in Chicago, any or *ALL* of them can be yours for free. Probably 3 
or 4 of them have FDD problems with drive alignment, one or two has a 
bad or missing power supply, one of them has both drives missing.

 3   Kaypro II (nongraphics, 2 SSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 2  (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 2x (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 4   Kaypro 4  (graphics, 2 DSDD floppy drives)
 1   Kaypro 10 (graphics, 1 SSDD floppy dirve, one 10 meg HDD)

   If anyone wants to pick them all up and cart them away, that would 
be fine! I can provide bootable disks, including legit Kaypro masters, 
for these computers, but no printed manuals (sorry!).

Email me at <epement@jpusa.chi.il.us> or phone at 773/561-2450, 1-2084#.
If I'm not there, leave a message on voice mail. If you need to know 
more about Kaypros, CP/M, or have other questions, please ask.

Kind regards,
Eric Pement
-- end of forwarded message --



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep  6 22:25:46 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35F3523A.718E2AEB@sprintmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and Schematics
for the following classic computers:

Osborne 01,
Osborne Executive
Kaypro Model 2
Kaypro Model 2X

I have these units in my collection of CP/M based computers, and they all have minor
problems with them..
It is my goal to keep them all running, but I now realize that I need Service
Manuals to do this..

Can anyone help ?

Thanks Phil....








From wanderer at bos.nl  Mon Sep  7 13:31:29 1998
From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
Message-ID: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>

Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
people during the night shift?

I'm looking for these drawings. So if you have one (ore more)
of them please feel free to email them to me directly, unless
you want to please other readers as well...

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. can somebody help me with a 'chat' container or knows
an address where to get one?
-- 
The Wanderer                       | Geloof nooit een politicus!
wanderer@bos.nl                    | Europarlementariers:
http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer   | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor
Unix Lives!   windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici.
'96 GSXR 1100R                     | 
See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of
Gates!


From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com  Mon Sep  7 11:47:00 1998
From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions
Message-ID: <D11784690BF5D111ADCD002035B165AF069549@ticonderoga.virtualadmin.com>

Thanks for the info, I'm driving this puppy 850 miles though.  Is the
clip permanently attached to the positioner?

-----Original Message-----
From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:04 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions


> 
> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm going to pickup a system in a week or two, and it's got RL02
Drives.
> I haven't seen one of these in years.  Any shipping hints, locking
> screws,

There is a locking clip on the head positioner, but in my experience the

positioner is stiff enough not to need locking for short moves.

Do make sure there are no packs in them. To open the top cover, either 
remove the little plate on the RHS (if it's an old drive) and frob the 
solenoid (and replace the plate afterwards), or undo the access cover on

top and release the door that way. Take out any packs you find in the 
drives, but keep them, as one may well be a bootable OS.

> etc?
> 
> Thanks.
> 

-tony


From haleyk at okstate.edu  Mon Sep  7 11:57:23 1998
From: haleyk at okstate.edu (K.S. (Tall Texan) Haley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980907115631.80258C-101000@vms.ucc.okstate.edu>

I have Snoopy.

have a good Labor Day.

regards,
scott

*********1*********2*********3*********4*********5*********6
As the astronomers unanimously teach, the circuit of the
whole earth, which to us seems endless, compared with the
greatness of the universe has the likeness of a mere point.
--Ammianus Marcellinius ( 330-395 AD)
the last major Roman historian in "The Chronicle of Events"
*****	haleyk@okstate.edu	*****	*****	***** 	ends.


On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, wanderer wrote:

> Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
> people during the night shift?
> 
> I'm looking for these drawings. So if you have one (ore more)
> of them please feel free to email them to me directly, unless
> you want to please other readers as well...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> P.S. can somebody help me with a 'chat' container or knows
> an address where to get one?
> -- 
> The Wanderer                       | Geloof nooit een politicus!
> wanderer@bos.nl                    | Europarlementariers:
> http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer   | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor
> Unix Lives!   windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici.
> '96 GSXR 1100R                     | 
> See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of
> Gates!
> 
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 12:15:27 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: VIC20 video port/cable
Message-ID: <m0zG4t1-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jpl15 at netcom.com  Mon Sep  7 13:02:33 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:29 2005
Subject: uVAX II Bugcheck help
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809071057.A25021-0100000@netcom12>


  I have a couple of newbie questions re: the uVAX II  that has come 
to live with me..

  One is (and I have looked before asking) where might I find more 
technical data than the User's Manual seems to provide? Particularly 
sysgen info....  I need to a) find some device drivers and b) make 
them available to VMS..  specifically the TK50. There are no 
floppies installed. (nor in my other one.. boo!)

  Two is..  this old beast got quite cranky on me this morning..  it 
crashed loudly five or six time before stabilizing...  I managed to 
capture the info once or twice, but I cannot verify that it was the 
same each time...   most crashes came during boot after VMS signed 
on and somewhere right before/during the DATE/TIME prompt..  though 
it happened at other times too...

  FATAL CRASH Bugcheck... PGFIPLHI Pagefault IPL too high

  Crash CPU 00    Primary CPU 00

  and a ton of other stuff...  registers etc. which I will not 
reproduce unless asked.  ;}

  It *seemed* to get better as it warmed up..  the machine is out in 
my shop and the ambient is about 68F and foggy...  also it is not 
retaining the DATE/TIME info...  is the uVAX as sensitive to it's 
battery state as some other machines? Has the RAM developed mange?

  Today I will move it in to the house where it can be given TLC...

  by the way, I have been asked re: the cabinet it's in..  it is in 
a 4' high roll-around rack, whose top hinges up to allow access to 
the Cipher 9trk tape drive.  I don't have the cabinet model number.


  Thanks to All who have offered comments/suggestions so far!

  Cheers

John




From Roger at Sinasohn.com  Mon Sep  7 13:19:49 1998
From: Roger at Sinasohn.com (Roger Sinasohn)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Fwd: Panasonic HHC
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980907110641.6abf6fc2@mail.sinasohn.com>

Can anyone help this guy?

>X-Persona: <Roger@Sinasohn.Com>
>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Matt Herriot <linkstar457@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Panasonic HHC
>To: roger@sinasohn.com
>
>Roger,
>
> We came across a Panasonic HHC in the storage room the other day that
>had come frmo an insurance company ages ago with a bunch of eproms
>written with software for their business. We thought it would be cute
>to write a handy little program for it but do not have a manual. Can
>you tell me whether it programs in basic and what form? 
>
> I myself have a fondness for the little Pocket Computer II or III
>from Tandy. The one with the white LCD screen, not the yellow. Mine
>was stolen back in the eighties though. If you happen to know where I
>can pick one up for around $30 or less let me know.
>
>
>          Thanks,
>          Matt Herriot
>          linkstar457@yahoo.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From thomas100 at home.com  Mon Sep  7 14:36:47 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <199809071936.LAA11322@next.ireadyco.com>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:14:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 10:35:30 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5o8-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:19:28 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809070239.WAA13185@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 6, 98 10:33:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5sx-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 13:25:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Tandy 3
In-Reply-To: <35F3504E.D02@bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 6, 98 11:17:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG5yP-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep  7 15:56:18 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907165132.4887A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

[re: the original Macintosh keyboards]

> > Did Apple think they were doing someone a favour with this keyboard? :/
> 
> If you never used PCs and didn't have to interface with systems that are
> PC-based you wouldn't have need to complain.

I'm sorry, but I find arrow keys to be fairly important.  I don't want to
have to use the mouse just to position the cursor in a text editor.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep  7 16:17:38 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <m0zE00z-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907170801.4887B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > --- Doug Spence wrote:
> > my display appears to be squished slightly on the left hand side.
> > Can I fix that easily, without risk of electrocution?
> > --- end of quote ---
> > 
> > There are some adjustments you can do with plastic TV-tweaking
> > tools (even demagnetized metal ones distort the display when
> > they're near the board). The easy-to-reach ones are accessible from
> > the solder-side of the analog board (there should be a white
> > plastic sheet that tells you which controls are which). If those
> 
> Well, horizontal linearity (which is what you're asking about) is set by 
> the magnetically-biased coil L3. And AFAIK it's not adjustable. L2, which 
> can be tweaked, sets the width. The rings on the yoke centre the picture.
> 
> You might find that careful tweaking of width and centring will get a 
> useable picture. If not, look for defective components in the L2/L3 area 
> (in particular that 3.9uF cap I mentioned).

It's already 'useable' (I wrote the original message on the very machine
we're discussing) it's just that the distortion is noticeable.  The
picture is probably only a couple of millimeters shorter on the left than
on the right, if there is even that much difference.

Considering the risks, and the amount of free time I've got, I've decided
not to do anything about this little problem for the time being.

Unless you think it's a sign of something worse on the way, in which case
a little preventative maintenance would be a whole lot better than
cleaning up after something goes kablooie in a major way. :)

> Whatever you do, don't tweak the DC voltage preset on the analogue board 
> unless you know what you are doing. I normally set if to get the +5V line 
> spot-on, but I have not idea if that's the official thing to do.

I'm not sure it's set correctly as it is.  When I got the machine it had a
clip-in 512K memory expansion in it, and I was told that the voltage was
probably tweaked to accomodate this board.

However, the machine wouldn't start up with the memory board in it, so I
removed it.  But I never tweaked the voltage on the analogue board.

As soon as I get the appropriate parts to fix the memory board, it's going
back in.

> -tony

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Sep  7 16:28:55 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8284943@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
According to the Tech manual, the output from the VIC20 is composite 
video and line level audio. There was an external RF modulator that 
plugged into that socket and connected via a switchbox to the aerial 
socket on a TV, but if you TV has composite video inputs, etc, then 
there's no need to use a modulator.
--- end of quote ---

I posted the original question. There didn't seem to be any need for a switchbox since the TV has these inputs already. 

Tony, your earlier post (thanks, BTW) describes the pinout for the correct video connector. Except that, um, I don't know the pin numbering scheme you're using. So, in this summary of continuity checks, I am counting pins from left to right, not knowing any better:

Pin 1 -- nothing.
Pin 2 -- tip of black RCA connector.
Pin 3 -- sleeves of both red and black RCA's. 
Pin 4 -- tip of red RCA.
Pin 5 -- nothing.

So I guess that pin 3's corresponding with both RCA sleeves must have something to do with the video signal's being present even when I switch them around, right? But I'm not sure what to make of the rest of it. The answer is probably staring me right in the face from your previous post, but I'm pretty ignorant about electronics, so please bear with me.  ;)

Thanks again for the help.

-- MB


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep  7 17:27:24 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
Message-ID: <199809072236.SAA13293@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: David Williams <dlw@trailingedge.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
> Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 2:24 AM
> 
> 
> On Tim's page (I believe) there is also a Linux TRS-80 Model 1/3/4 
> emulator (called xtrs) that can use the Linux box's floppy drives as 
> the emulator's drives.  A couple of days ago, I setup an old 486 
> with a 5.25" floppy and installed Linux.  Set up the emulator and 
> downloaded the LDOS from Tim's page.  Used the emulator to 
> make a new LDOS boot disk using the floppy drive.  Took the disk 
> to my Model III and it booted right up.  I've used that technique to 
> move several pieces of TRS-80 Model III software now and I'm 
> working on Model I software using the Model III as a go between.  
> Works great and is just one more example of some useful software 
> for Linux.  At least for collectors of old TRS-80s. :-)  The xtrs 
> emulator is pretty good although it isn't really easy to swap 
> emulated disks.  Next I'm going to try it out with my Model 4.
> 
O.K.  I saw that.  Now-- Where do I get a copy of Linux??
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 16:47:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907170801.4887B-100000@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Doug Spence" at Sep 7, 98 05:17:38 pm
Message-ID: <m0zG97t-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ventas at centraldeabastos.com.mx  Mon Sep  7 19:34:00 1998
From: ventas at centraldeabastos.com.mx (ventas@centraldeabastos.com.mx)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: NEEDED.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980907183400.00772778@centraldeabastos.com.mx>

September 1998.

I'm looking for this old unit functioning to purchase it, actually I need
the PACK or FIXED PLATE also called HDA, the interface of this unit is SMD
and there may be manufacturers that emulate SMD with SCSI disk, (an
alternative of this type as long as it is transparent and that doesn't
require modifications in hardware or software would do).

BRAND : Ampex 
MODEL : 932  (DFR-932) 
P/N : 3311637-01 
DISC TYPE : Winchester ( 1 FIXED PLATE, 1 REMOVABLE PLATE TYPE BASF CARTRIDGE)
I/O INTERFACE TYPE:  SMD/CMD 
INTERNAL PROCESSOR : INTEL 8085A - 5 Mhz. 
CAPACITY :  32 MByte 
FABRICATION YEAR: AGO-1980 
WEIGHT : 77 Kgm. - 154 Lbs. 
ELECTRICAS CHARACTERISTICS: 60 Hz. - 120 VAC. 
FABRICATION PLACE:  Redwood City, California USA BY: AMPEX Corp. 

NOTE : This Unit model 932 can be reeplaced by models 964 or 966. 

We would appreciate if you could suggest where we may find a used unit.

Thanks.
Mexico City.
International Used Components.




From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  7 18:39:50 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <19980907233950.2893.qmail@hotmail.com>





I was volunteering for a short time at the Museum of Science, and they
had a Terrapin LOGO turtle stashed away, and some descendants as well.
The LOGO was controlled via an external box by serial cable. The
descendants were programmable by IR connection. They stored them
for lack of display space.I would have asked about the Amiga 500
deal with them too much. These people had no money, and they replaced
an entire computer due to a PSU problem I had asked about before.
Has anyone seen a turtle in action? How rare are these>
>motors have come loose, and a couple of pulleys need replacement..
>
>Phil...
>
>Jim wrote:
>
>> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the 
early
>> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or 
other robots
>> of that vintage?
>> --
>> Jim Strickland
>> jim@calico.litterbox.com
>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep  7 18:48:38 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <19980907233950.2893.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980907184618.30714A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> I was volunteering for a short time at the Museum of Science, and they
> had a Terrapin LOGO turtle stashed away, and some descendants as well.
> The LOGO was controlled via an external box by serial cable.

LOGO is not the turtle, it's the programming language.  The language was
used to teach programming concepts by moving a turtle (either a robot or a
virtual graphics turtle).

-- Doug



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 18:20:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8284943@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 7, 98 05:28:55 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGAaH-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From fmc at reanimators.org  Mon Sep  7 18:55:02 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: Thomas Pfaff's message of Mon, 7 Sep 98 12:36:47 -0700
References: <199809071936.LAA11322@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:
> (View with proportional fonts)

Ewww.  Y'know, not all proportional fonts have the same widths
for the same characters.  Besides, who made ASCII terminals with
proportional fonts?  (Yes, this is an invitation for folks to 
inform us all.  And make sure you tell us what they were used 
for!)

-Frank McConnell



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Sep  7 19:17:31 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
Message-ID: <8285894@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
The Mac PSU is a little marginal and should be tweaked if the load 
changes.

How I do it is to connect a DC voltmeter to the +5V line on the logic 
board (for example on the mouse port). And adjust the DC voltage preset 
on the PSU board for a reading of 5V. I am not sure if this is the 
official procedure, though.
--- end of quote ---

What you're doing is probably fine. The "official procedure" at the repair shop where I used to work involved a special little testing adapter (available from Apple, but probably only to authorized service centers) that plugged into the Mac's floppy port and split into four wires, one of which was ground. The other three were some combination of 5V and 12V leads (I think one 12V, one -5V, and one +5V, or something like that). You'd check all three and tweak each of them to within some tolerance, and according to the service manual, if you couldn't get all three within tolerance, then you were supposed to replace the board. 

-- MB


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 19:30:25 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 7, 98 04:55:02 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGBfw-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 19:37:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <8285894@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 7, 98 08:17:31 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGBmi-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep  7 20:37:00 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <199809072355.QAA24734@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980907183632.29125A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 7 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:
> > (View with proportional fonts)
> 
> Ewww.  Y'know, not all proportional fonts have the same widths
> for the same characters.  Besides, who made ASCII terminals with
> proportional fonts?  (Yes, this is an invitation for folks to 
> inform us all.  And make sure you tell us what they were used 
> for!)

My guess is he meant fixed-width font (ie. non-proportional).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 20:49:10 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: (Fwd) Looking for DG NOVA info
Message-ID: <199809080145.UAA07906@trailingedge.com>

Can anyone help him out?  Email him directly if you can.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	"Scott L. Baker" <scd@teleport.com>
To:             	<dlw@trailingedge.com>
Subject:        	Looking for DG NOVA info
Date sent:      	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:05:59 -0700

I'm looking for any information that you might have on the
Data General Nova series of minicomputers.  Specifically a
programmers reference or architecture reference.  If you have
any info, I would gladly pay for photocopying and shipping charges.

                            Thanks in advanced,
                            Scott L. Baker
                            scd@teleport.com



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep  7 20:59:39 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: WTB:  TRS-80 stuff.
In-Reply-To: <199809072236.SAA13293@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>

There are several places to pick up Linux.  I tend to use the version 
from Red Hat (www.redhat.com).  There are places to download it 
off the net but it is BIG and I'd suggest you pick up on of the 
CDRom copies.  They can be picked up for cheap and make it a lot 
easier to install.

On 7 Sep 98, at 18:27, Jason Willgruber wrote:
> O.K.  I saw that.  Now-- Where do I get a copy of Linux??


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Mon Sep  7 21:38:39 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

Hi All.  I know there are a huge number of PDP-11 fans here (me-self
included)  But I don't hear much about other mini-computer scale systems. 

Are there any other Prime Computer fans on the list?  I spent a lot of
years working on the things, and have mucho respect for their hardware and
kernel development guys.  Shit-head marketing and other problems killed
off the company a couple years ago, but they had a really nice product in
the "super mini" market for at least a few years running.  I'd like to
latch onto one of the 23xx series small machines, or even one of the last
5200 boxes.

  -wayne




From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Mon Sep  7 22:24:52 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 529
References: <199809080002.RAA15236@lists5.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35F4A384.16DC5A5A@goldrush.com>

> From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
> 
> I have a VIC-20 that didn't come with a video cable, but I later found what
> appeared to be the right one. The part that plugs into the computer has a
> half-circle of five connectors, and on the other end there are two RCA-type
> plugs, one red and one black. Regardless of which one I plug into the
> "video-in" port on my TV, I get perfect video (why does it work with both?) --
> but no audio, whether I plug the second RCA plug into the left or the right
> "sound-in" jack on the TV. Is this the wrong cable, or is there a problem with
> using a stereo TV? (Or is there a fault somewhere?)
> 

The video cable you have is probably for a Commodore 64, Atari 8-bit, or Sega
Genesis.  There are two video outputs on the VIC video connector.

You should be able to locate a cable that has a 5-pin din to 4 RCA type plugs
- Radio shack used to sell them - I think they are (were) used in automobile
audio systems...  With that you will find both video and audio output (but
watch out, there is also the +5v output in one plug too.)  :/

BTW you're not missing much with the VIC-20 sound, the programmer's trick to
get better sound output is to keep the computer controlled sound volume low
(like 2 or 3) then the voices don't mess up each other as much.
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From pgrammen at sonic.net  Mon Sep  7 23:02:25 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Mac 512K Working!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980907165132.4887A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca
 >
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901135617.3728B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980907210225.008517f0@pop.sonic.net>

At 04:56 PM 9/7/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I find arrow keys to be fairly important.  I don't want to
>have to use the mouse just to position the cursor in a text editor.
>

There is an optional number pad that daisy chains with the keyboard. I
think that has arrow keys on it. You could also use a Mac Plus keyboard
which has arrow keys and number pad built-in. At least I think it is
compatible with the 512K. It certainly would be if it is a 512K Enhanced
with the 800K floppy. 

A couple of common problems with those are overheating due to the lack of a
fan, fractured solder joints where the cable connectors are soldered to the
powersupply board, and gummy grease making the 400K floppy drives stick. 
-Paul



From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 00:24:53 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
Message-ID: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>

Just got a PDP-11/84 into the basement, and after the Series/1 experience I
was ready... Go grab some 2x4 lumber if you ever need to get a rack system
up or down stairs... Now that it's down, I need to get it running. When I
plug it in and turn it on, it turns on the "DC on" light and the boot test
display says "77". And what is the easiest way to hook up a
terminal(probably use a WY-99GT or VT-220, maybe the WY-60)? It's a nice
system with 4MB RAM and a 9-track Cipher tape drive(I noticed that the tape
drive I have with my Series/1 appears to be a Cipher, or based on it as it
needs a Cipher tool to prepare the tape for the autoload feature). Any
ideas on how to hook the tape drive up?



--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 00:21:19 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>
References: <199809080156.UAA07915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]>

>Hi All.  I know there are a huge number of PDP-11 fans here (me-self
>included)  But I don't hear much about other mini-computer scale systems.
What's wrong with my IBM Series/1? Well, other than it isn't quite in
working condition... I have the CPU converted to 110v(from 220v), but
nothing else is going quite that well. But I'm happy now that I have a
PDP-11/84 :-) That reminds me, I'm going to be getting rid of three IBM
4967 hard drives(220v) and a rack(hesitant to give it up, but I need the
room), as well as a 4959 expansion unit. And I'm looking for 110v 4963 or
4967 hard drive. Anyways...

>Are there any other Prime Computer fans on the list?  I spent a lot of
>years working on the things, and have mucho respect for their hardware and
>kernel development guys.  Shit-head marketing and other problems killed
>off the company a couple years ago, but they had a really nice product in
>the "super mini" market for at least a few years running.  I'd like to
>latch onto one of the 23xx series small machines, or even one of the last
>5200 boxes.
Never heard of them. But I do have a question... Considering how powerful
computers are getting, where do you draw the line between micros, minis and
mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 line,
about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can even fit
a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM has a
PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from somewhere)...
Looking back to older computers it's pretty easy, but with the newer stuff
it gets confusing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From WHoagIII at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 23:32:07 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <6e787edc.35f4b347@aol.com>

I think I have a Prime 23XX in the whse. I will look and get back to you. I
have one or two systems left. I am a secondary market dealer who is retireing
and getting rid of the last of the inventory.
Paxton Hoag


From nerdware at laidbak.com  Tue Sep  8 00:03:31 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Yamaha system question
In-Reply-To: <199808300024.TAA27067@trailingedge.com>
References: <3.0.16.19980209145747.624f99e6@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <199809080500.AAA32298@garcon.laidbak.com>

Sorry. I just read the other postings about the Yammy box. I guess I've got too 
many things stored in memory for the more obscure stuff to always be filed 
accurately.

Guess it's time to defrag my brain.



Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep  8 01:14:50 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>
Message-ID: <v04011703b21a7b4ba62a@[192.168.1.2]>

>Just got a PDP-11/84 into the basement, and after the Series/1 experience I

Ah, so you're the one that got it :^)

>display says "77". And what is the easiest way to hook up a
>terminal(probably use a WY-99GT or VT-220, maybe the WY-60)? It's a nice

Go with the VT220, it will prefer a DEC terminal.

>needs a Cipher tool to prepare the tape for the autoload feature). Any
>ideas on how to hook the tape drive up?

Stupid question, do you have a controller for it?  Also do you have any
disk drives?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From rexstout at uswest.net  Tue Sep  8 01:21:27 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b21a7b4ba62a@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <l03130300b21a2e067726@[207.225.87.165]>
Message-ID: <l03130306b21a7d08921d@[207.225.86.134]>

>Ah, so you're the one that got it :^)
Yep.

>Go with the VT220, it will prefer a DEC terminal.
And it looks nicer with a VT-220 sitting on top...

>Stupid question, do you have a controller for it?  Also do you have any
>disk drives?
Hehe... NOPE! No controllers at all, in fact no cards other than the CPU,
RAM, bus converter and terminator. And the only drive I have for it is the
Cipher.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Tue Sep  8 01:33:30 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
In-Reply-To: <35F3523A.718E2AEB@sprintmail.com>
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980907233330.03679690@agora.rdrop.com>

Greetings;

At 11:25 PM 9/6/98 -0400, Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>:
>    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..
>
>I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and
Schematics
>for the following classic computers:
>
>Osborne 01,
>Osborne Executive
>Kaypro Model 2
>Kaypro Model 2X

Well...  I don't have anything (that I know of, I forget sometimes  B^}  )
for the Osbornes (tho I could probably use them too) but I do have a
service manual set for the entire Kaypro (8-bit) line of computers.

I can run you a copy of the whole thing, or the selected parts if you like.
 I'd have to get a page count to figure the cost tho...

I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

-jim

---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174




From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Tue Sep  8 06:14:11 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: LCD woes
In-Reply-To: <199809031823.LAA00038@goodnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980908071030.15389A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:

> I've seen cards that could do both CGA and HGC, and maybe even EGA modes.
> They had DIP switches as you are describing.
> 
> As for some software requireing a switch to be flipped - maybe it also
> has a way of emulating CGA via HGC, or something.

This is possible, as the software I had to flip a switch to run (GeoWorks
Ensemble setup) seems to assume I'm using CGA.

I'll have to put a system information-type program on there to see if it
reports different display cards with different switch settings.


Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 06:23:05 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <76759482.35f51399@aol.com>

Both the Prime systems I have are old 2250s (2044-90 & 901). I havn't looked
at the cards but one is a low cabinet with CPU and Hard drive. The other is
two low cabinets, the second holding a 1" Cipher Tape drive. Is there any
interest in them or parts from them. Unless someone is interested they are a
week or two from becoming parts & scrap. I am closing my warehouse shortly and
need to get rid of them. If you have more questions or interest in them
contact me directly at
Innfograph@aol.com
Thanks for your interest,
Paxton Hoag


From su4393 at eclipse.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 06:27:21 1998
From: su4393 at eclipse.co.uk (Mr James Sterling Bunting)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Intellec 8 Etc. & Cromemco Computers Etc.
Message-ID: <199809081222.MAA02922@ns1.saturn.ispc.net>

As a  retired moneychanger turned storyteller, fighting against government
exploitation, often winning the un-winnable but definitely loosing the war,
I need to dispose of 'assets' to pay Sancho Pansa's wages.

'Assets'? available:-

COMPUTER - INTEL CORPORATION
Intellec 8
Model No. 8 - 84
Serial No. 245
S.D. 4.75 (Production Date?)

STAND ALONE TAPE READER/TRANSMITTER - ADDMASTER CORPORATION
ADDMASTER 606 
Model No.606 - (Parallel Output)
Serial No.606136
Production Date 1975?

DESKTOP PUNCH STATION - LITTON - SWEDA INTERNATIONAL, INC.
ROYTRON 528 PUNCH
Model No. 528
Serial No. 528 - 23 - 3382.

CASSETTE TAPE UNIT - MESONIX AUTOMATION LTD.
CASSETTE UNIT.
Model No. -  Fitted DCR-3 Tape Unit  (Phillips?)
Serial No.  -  Mesonix Tape Storage Unit.
Production Date  1976? 

I have recently dug out the above items which were purchased new in 1975/6
(whilst working as a moneychanger) and were working when put into storage
in 1980.  There is also a quantity of advertising literature and 
instruction manuals relating to all but the Mesonix Tape unit 
(a U.K. company that no longer exists?)

Still in store there are also three complete Cromemco systems one System 1
(or 2?) and two System 3's with four or five terminals, a stand alone 
double 8" disk drive, a Cromemco Spinwriter and Quime daisywheel printer
plus a mass of Cromemco software, manuals and disks.

S100 - a bit like tilting at windmills.

I'm thinking of eBay for disposal of anything of any real value but would
appreciate the helpful comments of any classic computer cognoscenti
/collectors/dealers out there,  willing and able to assist.  

James S. Bunting
Campaign Against Statutory Exploitation (C.A.S.E.)

M.V. Great Gull,
C/O Double Locks Hotel,
Canal Banks,
Exeter Ship Canal,
Exeter,
Devon.
EX2 6LT.

Phone No. 44- (0) 1932.493311. (On board)
eMail - headcase@eclipse.co.uk





From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  8 07:53:28 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <m0zFiYN-000IyMC@p850ug1> <3.0.3.32.19980907233330.03679690@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <35F528C7.E3251BAF@bbtel.com>

James Willing wrote:

> At 11:25 PM 9/6/98 -0400, Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com>:
> >    I'm new here and I sure am learning alot from all the experts..
> >
> >I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get Repair Documentation and
> Schematics
> >for the following classic computers:
> >
> >Osborne 01,
> >Osborne Executive
> >Kaypro Model 2
> >Kaypro Model 2X
>
> Well...  I don't have anything (that I know of, I forget sometimes  B^}  )
> for the Osbornes (tho I could probably use them too) but I do have a
> service manual set for the entire Kaypro (8-bit) line of computers.
>
> I can run you a copy of the whole thing, or the selected parts if you like.
>  I'd have to get a page count to figure the cost tho...
>
> I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

Not sure if the Osborne machines are listed as model OCC1 or OCC1A but if they
are you can get a ComputerFacts schematic from Sams as schematic CSCS-1. No
Kaypro machines are listed. Weird too as even that crappy little Sanyo MBC555
is listed in it as well as schematics for some of the more popular Teac 5.25"
drives.

Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a ton of them from the
Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how cost effective it might be to spend
the $$$ on a schematic for a $20 machine thoough.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 10:21:42 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <199809081304.PAA23101@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> I think the Computer Journal folk also have Kaypro parts and docs...

> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a ton of them from the
> Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how cost effective it might be to spend
> the $$$ on a schematic for a $20 machine thoough.

Maybe pure fun ? I just recently browsed the KIM Manuals :)

But USD 20 ? Expensive box huh ?

Gruss
H.

BTW:
 Anybody willing to host some 100 MB of
 scans ? While browsing I just decided
 to scan the KIM-1 USER MANUAL.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 08:15:41 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <c=GB%a=_%p=SSA_Softwright%l=EXCH001-980908131541Z-1883@exch001.softwright.co.uk>

>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>> $20 machine thoough.

So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??

Jules
>


From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 10:47:18 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <199809081330.PAA14918@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> Date:          Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:15:41 +0100
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Julian Richardson <JRichardson@softwright.co.uk>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       RE: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
> X-To:          "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>

>>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>>> $20 machine thoough.

> So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
> them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
> scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
> information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??

Don't know in this case, but its still money to earn.
Every cent is at least 1/100 of a dollar.

:)
Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 08:42:53 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908094208.4262A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Tue Sep  8 08:48:13 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
References: <199809081330.PAA14918@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <35F5359C.577BEDF5@bbtel.com>

Hans Franke wrote:

> >>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a
> >>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how
> >>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a
> >>> $20 machine thoough.
>
> > So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
> > them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
> > scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
> > information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??
>
> Don't know in this case, but its still money to earn.
> Every cent is at least 1/100 of a dollar.

 I believe it just has to do with the fact that they have it in print, and in many cases they are
copyrighting their time in reverse engineering it to get the schematic in the first place. Why do
companies copyright webpages? Still in viewable form and prone to being stolen essentially.
Another reason might be - just because they can.
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman
 Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
 Phone: (502) 756-1749  Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
 ICQ UIN #1714857
 ___________________________________________________




From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU  Tue Sep  8 09:33:47 1998
From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <01J1K51O9WEQ8YI8SZ@AC.GRIN.EDU>

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
the story somewhere?

-- 
Ben Coakley  http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley/   coakley@ac.grin.edu
CBEL: Xavier OH                                          CMEL: Xavier


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 09:40:57 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <01J1K51O9WEQ8YI8SZ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908103940.4262H-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
> the story somewhere?

Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Sep  8 10:02:38 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: 'Teletype' art and part wanted
In-Reply-To: <35F42681.2A18@bos.nl>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980908100238.00bc6410@pc>

At 06:31 PM 9/7/98 +0000, wanderer wrote:
>Who does not remember the 'teletype' art, which was made by
>people during the night shift?

I have a web page devoted to it.  One of these days, I'll fix it up.
Right now, it includes a dozen or two small images of teletype art,
as recreated from the original data with a program I wrote.  It
converts the overstrike art into an Adobe Illustrator file that
can be rasterized by PhotoShop.  I'd like to put the original
files online, but it would take many megabytes.

Contemporary ASCII art doesn't make much sense to me, but old
teletype / lineprinter art does.  It was a great way to squeeze
graphics from old machines.

You might also check out:
<http://cgi1.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/history.htm>
<http://cgi1.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/geobook.html>
<http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2695/links.htm>

- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>



From Marty at itgonline.com  Tue Sep  8 10:07:31 1998
From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <1998Sep08.110552.1767.136102@smtp.itgonline.com>

 If the article William is refering to is on the Retro-Computing 
 Society of RI, go to the Providence Journal home page then do a search 
 under computers. The article for the Retro museum will be first up in 
 line.
 
 Marty
 


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Author:  classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet
Date:    9/8/98 10:43 AM


 > That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
 > the story somewhere?
 
 Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...
 
 William Donzelli
 william@ans.net
 
 
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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 10:07:21 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <19980908150722.14994.qmail@hotmail.com>





Well, the C64 had a schematic in the reference manual, as did the
Apple ][. I would be willing to photocopy either.
>>> Was someone looking for Commie schematics? Sams has a 
>>> ton of them from the Vic20 through the Amiga 500. Not sure how 
>>> cost effective it might be to spend the $$$ on a schematic for a 
>>> $20 machine thoough.
>
>So, what's the deal with copyright on schematics? If someone can sell
>them and make money out of them, is there any reason why they can't be
>scanned and put on the 'net for free? Or do companies that sell such
>information pay royalties for every schematic sold or something??
>
>Jules
>>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 11:53:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <76759482.35f51399@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908095336.10537A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> Both the Prime systems I have are old 2250s (2044-90 & 901). I havn't looked
> at the cards but one is a low cabinet with CPU and Hard drive. The other is
> two low cabinets, the second holding a 1" Cipher Tape drive. Is there any
> interest in them or parts from them. Unless someone is interested they are a
> week or two from becoming parts & scrap. I am closing my warehouse shortly and
> need to get rid of them. If you have more questions or interest in them
> contact me directly at

Ugh!  If you guys don't work out some arrangement to save these please let
the list know so some heroes can cometo the rescue.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:06:03 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908094208.4262A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100546.10537D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm
> 
> William Donzelli
> william@ans.net

Sorry, the item you requested was not found. It may have expired,
          or you may have misspelled your request.

Hey William, what the hell was this?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:06:46 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908103940.4262H-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100639.10537E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> > That came up "not found", with and without a trailing "l".  Did they move 
> > the story somewhere?
> 
> Sorry, it seems that article has expired. Made me mad, too...

Well what was it!?!?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep  8 12:13:17 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:30 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <1998Sep08.110552.1767.136102@smtp.itgonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908101257.10537G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Marty wrote:

>  If the article William is refering to is on the Retro-Computing 
>  Society of RI, go to the Providence Journal home page then do a search 
>  under computers. The article for the Retro museum will be first up in 
>  line.

Cool!  Excellent story.  Congratulations RCS guys!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 12:17:06 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Check this out...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908100546.10537D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908131359.4262T-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Hey William, what the hell was this?

RCS/RI had a bit of nice PR in the Providence Journal. Try going to
www.projo.com and search for "computers". The first article to come up
should be "Humming to the oldies".

Apparently the articles expire quickly (hey, its "news"), but they get
archived for a while.

Its a shame they did not include the nice photo of a PDP-12 in the web
page, as the actual paper copy has.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From franke at sbs.de  Tue Sep  8 14:37:36 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Check this out...
Message-ID: <199809081720.TAA25731@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190281.htm

I think it's still accessable - but now called:
http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/01190282.htm

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 13:57:41 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: old fax machine
Message-ID: <19980908185741.14527.qmail@hotmail.com>

I just found an old fax machine in the trash. It has two connectors
on the back: one is a DIN-6 labelled coupler. The other is DIN-8
marked NCU. The question is that I have neither coupler nor 'NCU',
and does anyone have any idea how to wire this thing to a phone line?
Is a coupler necessary, or can I wire the line right into the machine
if I figure out the DIN-5 connector's pinout? This is a PERSONALFAX II
, BTW.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 14:38:57 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908152957.4262V-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

I have seen plenty of Pr1mes in junkyards, but most had received "the
treatment" before I could pull them.

> What's wrong with my IBM Series/1? Well, other than it isn't quite in
> working condition... I have the CPU converted to 110v(from 220v), but
> nothing else is going quite that well. But I'm happy now that I have a
> PDP-11/84 :-) That reminds me, I'm going to be getting rid of three IBM
> 4967 hard drives(220v) and a rack(hesitant to give it up, but I need the
> room), as well as a 4959 expansion unit.

Please pull all of the parts that you can out of these units - boards,
heads, maybe a motor or two. S/1s definitely are not in the common
category, so those of us with them (I think that makes the two of us!)
will have spares in the future. We all know how standard IBM parts are...

> Never heard of them. But I do have a question... Considering how powerful
> computers are getting, where do you draw the line between micros, minis and
> mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 line,
> about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can even fit
> a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM has a
> PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from somewhere)...
> Looking back to older computers it's pretty easy, but with the newer stuff
> it gets confusing.

The line between micros and workstations is getting very dull, but minis
are still minis and mainframes are still mainframes. Sure, everything now
fits on one chip (or maybe a few - no more scads of misc), but minis tend
to be multiprocessor boxes with _loads_ of memory and expandability.
Mainframes, of course, can always be characterized by theie I/O channels.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 






From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep  8 11:43:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <m0zG5o8-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <199809070238.WAA16662@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 6, 98 10:35:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809082047.QAA06808@smtp.interlog.com>

On  7 Sep 98 at 19:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> >  It's been a while and my VICs are buried under a pile of other stuff but I
> > think the problem is that the box is a RF modulator that has to go directly
> > into your TV to split the signal into audio and video. I don't remember there 
> 
> Wait a second....
> 
> According to the Tech manual, the output from the VIC20 is composite 
> video and line level audio. There was an external RF modulator that 
> plugged into that socket and connected via a switchbox to the aerial 
> socket on a TV, but if you TV has composite video inputs, etc, then 
> there's no need to use a modulator.
> 
> It sounds like that's what the original poster was doing. The fact that 
> they got perfect video implies that _something_ was right - mix up RF and 
> composite video signals and you won't get anything.
> 
> -tony
> 
> 
 I just checked my old VIC20 Programmers manual from C= and
VIC20 manual both showing the pinouts. They call the pin 4 video low
and pin 5 video hi. The pin 1 +5v has a note 10mA max. Is it possible the
difference between the video pins was the hi-lo tuning on older TVs
(CH 2-7 .8-13 ?). That would explain why there were 2 plugs
on the RF modulator box output. A C64 plug with the 4 (or 2) line split-out 
would give him the composite and audio signals needed.
The Programmers manual is a great little book, C= also included the
schematics with it. I see that Q1 output is tied to both pin 4 and directly 
to pin 5 but with the pin 4 fed thru R8 a 47ohm r and with another line thru a 
75 ohm R8 to ground. The schematic also marks the 1pin as 6v . Why the 
discrepancy between the +5v pin 1 p-o diagrams in both of my C+ books and the 
schematic and your tech manuals' +6v ?

ciao		larry

  
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Tue Sep  8 11:43:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Ass. lang manual
In-Reply-To: <199809071056.MAA23595@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809082047.QAA06789@smtp.interlog.com>

On  7 Sep 98 at 13:14, Hans Franke wrote:
 SNIP
> With exraordinary simple thinking one can easy develop all
> stages of an execution pipline for this opcode. Staight
> forward. Did I say develop ? There is noting to develop -
> reading the opcodes is like reading a step by step instruction
> to build the CPU.
> 
> Ok, maybe I'm overemphasing, but I love this structure.
> I did almost any microprocessor (from 1802 to 9900 and Z80)
> in the past 20 years, and some of the bigger architectures,
> but none equals the /370.
> 
> So, if you want to have fun, take the OP-Code table and
> solve the puzzle - or just keep the manual for 'real world'
> tasks, since this Assm is still valid for IBM (and compatible)
> Mainframes. I bet your taxes are calculated on one of 'em.

 Well it's unlikely anyone would let me anywhere near a mainframe but
from your description it sounds like it would be good just to study and
learn from.
> 
> Gruss
> H.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 12:58:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980907222207.12879B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 7, 98 10:38:39 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGS2G-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 13:04:07 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <l03130303b21a6d1fd4c7@[207.225.86.134]> from "John Rollins" at Sep 7, 98 09:21:19 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep  8 17:12:23 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: old characters (was: magazines)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980908140241.4a472248@ricochet.net>

At 07:37 PM 9/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Finding old characters like Chris Crawford?  Sheesh, doesn't anyone
>try a web search (via www.hotbot.com, etc.) before asking a question

Whups, sorry.  I was just sort of reminiscing, while replying, not really
thinking.  Besides, I'm currently running windoze, and can't load Eudora
and Netscape at the same time.

>of the endlessly patient oracle known as this mailing list?  Crawford
>is still quite active as an old wise man in the gaming industry.

I'll check it out -- Thanks!


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 17:36:13 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <19980908223614.7302.qmail@hotmail.com>



I must comment that the real distinction is how they are marketed.
Earlier, the size of the machine denoted its power and utility. Now,
it's not possible to classify as easily. Plus, hardware gets outmoded
so quickly, it's not likely for anyone to buy a 'mainframe' these
days. PCs are pretty disposable now. Tony's rules are adequate, as
these distinctions closely mirror the target market of the machine.
>> mainframes? The minis are getting small(take a look at the AS/400 
line,
>> about the size a a PC server for the smaller models), and you can 
even fit
>> a miniature version of a S/370 into a PC(actually in two ways, IBM 
has a
>> PCI card and I seem to remember a software emulator from 
somewhere)...
>
>The rule I use is simple : 
>
>If the CPU is one chip (like a Z80, or a pentium) or a chipset that's 
>always used together to make that CPU (like a F11, or the early IBM 
6000 
>CPU) -> It's a micro
>
>If the CPU is a lot of standard chips (gates, flip-flops, ALUs, 
bit-slice 
>stuff), and it fits into at most a couple of 6' racks -> it's a mini
>
>If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.
>
>If it meets the 3M critera (Megabyte, Megapixel, Mips) -> it's a 
workstation.
>
>Now, this leads to some interesting ones. By that definition, a 
PDP11/23 
>is a micro. But a PDP11/34 is a mini. The 370-on-a-card is probably 
also 
>a micro.
>
>Note that 'workstation' says nothing about the CPU. I'd claim a Sun3 is 
a 
>worktation _and_ a micro. A PERQ 2 is a workstation and a mini. 
>
>Those definitions aren't perfect, but they seem to work for me.
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 16:57:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809082047.QAA06808@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 8, 98 04:43:29 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGVlX-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 18:03:59 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> The rule I use is simple : 

Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:

Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.

Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

Personal computer: an interactive computer small enough to fit on a desk
and inexpensive enough to be owned by a single average person.

Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
simultaneous users.

Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
simultaneously.

Supercomputer: a superscalar computer typically optimized for vector
operations.

and some finer grain classes:

Single-board computer: a computer with CPU, memory, and I/O support on a
single board.

Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
data processing and display facilities.

Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order to
reprogram.

All-in-one computer: a computer with built-in display, keyboard, and
storage device. 

Portable computer: an all-in-one computer designed to be easily
transportable by a single average person.

Laptop computer: a portable computer weighing less than 12 lbs.

Notebook computer: a laptop computer with A4 (8.5x11) dimensions or
smaller.

Handheld computer: a notebook computer weighing less than 2 lbs.

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep  8 18:42:39 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809082342.AA09606@world.std.com>


< Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
< 
< Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.

What if the cpu is multiple chips aka LSI-11?
 
< Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.
 

< Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
workststions.
 
< Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
< simultaneous users.

VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users.
 
< Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
< simultaneously.

Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically 
large.  AKA univac 1180.
 
< and some finer grain classes:
< 
....
< Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order t
< reprogram.

Maybe, or it can be a single board computer installed into a dedicated 
application.  Generally term embedded means dedicated to a task(or set of 
tasks).  One possible embedded machine is a national Nibble Basic or
intel 8052ah (basic or forth) chip with a keyboard, LCD and EEPROM.

Allison
 



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 19:11:03 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809082342.AA09606@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908185808.29282A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> 
> < Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
> < 
> < Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.
> 
> What if the cpu is multiple chips aka LSI-11?

I don't know why you would want to class that as a MPU.  Most of these
terms were invented because a new breed came into existance and it needed
a new name to distinguish it from what came before.  "Microprocessor"
was coined to celebrate a logic integration landmark: a computer on a
single chip.

> < Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.
> 
> What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.

OK, Microcomputer:  a computer that runs applications on a single
microprocessor.

I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

> < Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
> 
> What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
> workststions.

OK, Workstation: a computer with a bitmapped display designed to run a
non-Microsoft multitasking OS.

> < Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> < simultaneous users.
> 
> VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users.

OK, Minicomputer: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped
display, smaller than a mainframe. 

> < Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> < simultaneously.
> 
> Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically 
> large.  AKA univac 1180.

OK, Mainframe: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped display
that weighs at least one ton.

> < Embedded computer: a computer that requires cross-development in order t
> < reprogram.
> 
> Maybe, or it can be a single board computer installed into a dedicated 
> application.  Generally term embedded means dedicated to a task(or set of 
> tasks).  One possible embedded machine is a national Nibble Basic or
> intel 8052ah (basic or forth) chip with a keyboard, LCD and EEPROM.

Some people use PC's as dedicated controllers, but that doesn't make
a PC an embedded computer in my mind.  Cross-development seems to be the
only common factor when people talk about embedded, although there are
embedded environments, such as QNX, that support native development.

-- Doug



From pgrammen at sonic.net  Tue Sep  8 19:12:50 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <m0zFo3p-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980906143205.00846cd0@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net>

>Ok... It appears that the pins are _not_ numbered conventionally (from 
>fig 6-5, Main PCB component side in the TechRef).
>
>They seem to be : 
>      2
>   4  o  5
>   o     o
>1 o   o   o 3
>7 o   6   o 8
>
>The pinout is (from Fig 6-3, main PCB schematic 
>
>1 TL (Telephone)
>2 Gnd (System logic ground)
>3 RxMD (Telephone line, Telephone common)
>4 RxM (Acoustic coupler receive)
>5 TxM (Acoustic coupler transmit)
>6 Vdd (+5V output to power acoustic coupler)
>7 TxMd (Telephone line)
>8 RP (5V CMOS logic input. Beleived to be for an external ringing 
>detector unit for autoanswer. I can find no mention of this in the manuals)
>
>There are 2 switches on the left. One is marked Orig/Ans and selectes 
>Originate or Answer tones. The other is marked ACOP/DIR and selects 
>Acoustic coupler or Direct Connect operation.
>
>To link the thing up to a US phone line, direct connect : 
>
>Connect the phone line to pin 3 and pin 7 on the connector. The official 
>Tandy cable linked between a 'phone and the wall socket. The 'phone wires 
>go to pin 3 and pin 1
>

I verified your pinout info by tracing the connections and connected the
red phone wire to pin 7 and the green wire to pin 3. When I ran the
terminal program it hung and the internal speaker made a continuous static
hiss.  I exited the terminal program with a break command, and the static
stopped. 
One thing I'm confused about is your direction to connect the phone line to
pin 3 and 7, but saying that the Tandy cable goes to pins 3 and 1. I must
be missing something here. I looked up phone wiring, and found that the
green wire is called "Tip" and is like a common, and the red wire is "Ring". 

Any ideas on where I went wrong? 
-Paul



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:14:35 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908195713.26350B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

Almost ALL machines today use just a few chips (at most) in the CPU. The
days of little glue logic chips are long gone. Some S/390s, for example,
typically use only two chips in the CPU, and only for redundancy! Same
with the AS/400s.

> Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Unix? What about other OSes? Even NT...

> Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> simultaneous users.

Many minis do not timeshare - embedded control was and is a favorite duty.
PDP-8s were single user machines (yeah, I know about TSS/8, so keep
quite!), yet when someone says "mini", they instantly come to mind of many
people.

> Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> simultaneously.

Many mainframe applications do not have lots of people online, all tapping
away at their terminals. Some of the big boxes do their best work when
everyone is sleeping. 
 
I think the best definition for a "mainframe" is a machine designed not
for processor speed, but I/O speed (thus the use of channels - some
mainframe CPUs actually _idle_ under a heavy load, because the channels
are doing all the work).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:18:20 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908185808.29282A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908201650.26350C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 19:24:50 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <19980908223614.7302.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908202259.26350E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> ...it's not likely for anyone to buy a 'mainframe' these
> days.

Do not tell IBM, or they might stop shipping S/390s. That would put a few
people out of work!

> >If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.

Actually, I like this definition, too.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:16:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 8, 98 06:03:59 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGXwN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:29:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908195713.26350B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 08:14:35 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:35:17 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net> from "Paul Grammens" at Sep 8, 98 05:12:50 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGYED-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Sep  8 19:53:15 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGXwN-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908194021.29282D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
> 
> This one actually had an official definition when workstations were first 
> designed. It was called the '3M' criteria (nothing to do with the 3M of 
> tape/disk fame).
> 
> The 3 M's were : 
> 
> Megabyte - approximately 1 Megabyte or more of RAM
> 
> Megapixel - a bitmapped display with about 1 million pixels (or more) 
> 
> MIPS - about 1 VAX MIPS (11/780-speed) of CPU power
> 
> To those I would add
> 
> Personal - it's designed to be used by one person sitting in front of it. 
> It's not _designed_ for remote logins (although of course it may support 
> them). It may or may not be multitasking
> 
> Networkable - However, it is designed to be networked to other machines.

The problem with this definition is that it would include a PC running
Windows.  Very few seem to be willing to call that a workstation.

A workstation has to be *designed* to be networked, graphical, and
multitasking.  The Amiga would have been a workstation if it has
networking built-in.  If somebody built a PC that had networking built-in
and ran Windows NT, but could not run MS-DOS, I might be willing to call
that a workstation.

> > Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
> > data processing and display facilities.
> 
> We have this debate at HPCC (UK HP user club). The general view there is 
> that a calculator is designed for numeric operations (although it may 
> well have alphanumeric ones as well), and probably has separate keys for 
> common maths functions like SIN and LOG. 

When HP came out with the 9800 series, they introduced three models: the
9810, 9820, and 9830.  The first two were classed as "function per key"
calculators to distinguish them from the 9830, which was really a
computer.

> Something like an HP48 is clearly a calculator, but it has string 
> handling, list operations, I/O, etc as standard. It can even drive a 
> video display (or at least mine does....)

I consider the HP48 to be solidly a hybrid.  It has all the elements to be
classed a handheld computer.  In addition, it also has a user interface
that makes it easy to use as a calculator.  The 41 and 28 are in the same
camp.  The 9100, 9810, 9815, 65, etc are all solidly in the "programmable
calculator" camp simply because they don't handle full alphanumerics.

-- Doug



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Tue Sep  8 19:58:55 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Service Manuals & Schematics needed
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980909105854.0084d5c0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 08:07 8/09/98 PDT, Max Eskin <maxeskin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well, the C64 had a schematic in the reference manual, as did the
>Apple ][. I would be willing to photocopy either.

If you're after schematics for Commodore micros, check out
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/index.html

There are schematics for the C128, C64, VIC-20, Plus-4, PET2001, PET8032,
KIM-1 and various peripherals such as floppy disk drives, printers,
datasettes, etc.

Regards,

|     Scott McLauchlan    |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads |
| Client Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation."    |
|  University of Canberra |___________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_|
|scott@cts.canberra.edu.au| http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |


From donm at cts.com  Tue Sep  8 19:36:33 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: I'm UP!
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS2G-000IyQC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980908173455.1506A-100000@crash.cts.com>

 
 Thanks to the loan of the tapes by Hank, the many helpful hints from
 Allison, the tip from Zane about standalone Backup, and the dumb luck
 of stumbling across some DEC manuals for installation and update of VMS
 v5.5 at the local swapmeet, it looks like I am on the way to having an
 operational MicroVAX/Station 2000.
 
 The manuals told me that Backup was contained in Tape #2/2 and, even
 though it was not so labled as containing it, Backup booted up.  They
 also provided the correct syntax for a number of needed commands.  I'm
 sure that they will prove most helpful in other areas also.
 
 As I write, the machine has booted off the RD54 and is busily loading
 DECwindows and all that other good stuff that comes in the installation
 kit.  Mandatory Update will follow, and somewhere along the line I can
 enter my hobbyist license information (makes me honest :-)).
 
 I am sure that I will have more questions, but I certainly appreciate
 the help that I have been given.
                                                - don
 



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:01:51 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <m0zGS7e-000IyRC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Sep 8, 98 07:04:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809090101.TAA11557@calico.litterbox.com>

I look at it from the perspective of "what was it designed to do?"

If it was designed to sit on or beside a desktop with a single user (a big
clue is, does it have a memory mapped graphics system), then it's probably
a micro or a workstation.  All PCs, All Macs, and so forth fall into this 
category.  With the right OS a micro can do the WORK of a small mini, but it's
still a micro.

If it was designed to sit in a wiring closet or a cubical and service multiple
users either via xwindows, dumb terminals, file service, printer service, and
so on, and can support a number of users simultaniously, and if it has a 
serial port for communicating with its console, it's probably a mini.  
All Vaxen, and I'd say all PDP11s (never met one with a memory mapped screen) 
and so on are minis.

If it has the same qualifications as a mini, but takes up more than say 4 racks,
*requires* air conditioning, it's a mainframe.  An additional clue - mainframes
usually don't speak unix.  A mainframe does exactly the same job as a mini,
except that it's much larger and can handle many more users.

My reasoning for this division is something Steve Wozniac is supposed to have
said, that really all the early "micros" before the apple were just small
minis - they handled like minis, they interacted like mini's.  With the advent
of the memory mapped, integrated graphics system, the micro became a class unto
itself.,

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Tue Sep  8 20:01:06 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <001701bddb8d$52d05aa0$87b0adce@5x86jk>

yes I have a working HERO,Jr  John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Jim
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 1998 1:38 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: robots?
>
>
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or
> other robots
> of that vintage?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 20:21:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090101.TAA11557@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> If it has the same qualifications as a mini, but takes up more than say 4 racks,
> *requires* air conditioning, it's a mainframe.  An additional clue - mainframes
> usually don't speak unix.  A mainframe does exactly the same job as a mini,
> except that it's much larger and can handle many more users.

I seem to defending the mainframe today...

Anyway, mainframes are not big minis! Minis are generally very interactive
(process terminal keypresses one at a time, or maybe respond to external
signals from an A/D box). Mainframes are not interactive things - they
like to work on huge jobs that require moving tons of information on 
disk or tape to more disk or tape, often with little human interaction at
all. Take a look at IBMs terminals (327x) - they are quite smart, sending
out whole chunks of data, preassembled for the mainframe. The mainframe
need not be bothered dealing with escape characters and such to move the
cursor around - it has better things to do. The less keypresses, the
better.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net  



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:27:40 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:21:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809090127.TAA11736@calico.litterbox.com>

Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From william at ans.net  Tue Sep  8 20:41:11 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090127.TAA11736@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
> learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)

I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
TCP/IP and you will see black and white).

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Tue Sep  8 20:47:38 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:41:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809090147.VAA16323@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
> > Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
> > learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)
> 
> I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
> misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
> are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
> way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
> benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
> TCP/IP and you will see black and white).
> 
> William Donzelli
> william@ans.net 
> 
> 

Well, as an old DEC guy who later worked for IBM... I agree, although
with Posix Compliant mainframe software that meets the Unix spec
and runs the Apache webserver... mainframes aren't mainframes anymore.

(at least not the IBM 390 class ones which look like a cross between
a mainframe and a Unix server)

I do feel some of the flavor of the mini's is missed by the current
Unix de jour environment today.  VAX/VMS is not Unix or HP's MPE or 
Concurrent's OS/32 (which feels very IBM Mainframe -- with block mode
terminals and VTAM/ITAM type access).

I miss RSTS/E, RSX11(M,M+), IAS, RT11 on DEC stuff and the other
neat OS's for DEC -- MUMPS, PICK etc...

Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep  8 20:50:42 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908213556.27656B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 8, 98 09:41:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809090150.TAA11874@calico.litterbox.com>

I didn't interpret it as a flame.  I don't object to being corrected when I'm
wrong, and my only mainframe experience was via a terminal emulator box
doing course data transactions with an IBM.  I'd always heard that Crays
were best fed a colossal program and left alone, but didn't realise it held true
for most/all mainframes.

Speaking of Crays, one of the first *big* computers to inspire lust in my 
heart was a Cray 1.  Anyone got one of THOSE in the basement? :)  And can
anyone tell me how they stack up to modern computers performancewise?  I was
exposed to one at an impressionable young age at the National Center for 
Atmospheric Research, and know next to nothing about them.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep  8 21:21:38 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980908182004.6067f180@ricochet.net>

At 12:08 AM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some of the early
> 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection a H.E.R.O, or other
robots
> of that vintage?

There's been a few HERO's on ebay lately.  (Don't ask what they sold for.)  

Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep  8 21:35:35 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809090235.AA21995@world.std.com>

I'm picking as I've been around long enough in the industry to see what I 
call retrorevisionism.  It's the terminology creep that has been occuring 
since the PC became the computer for all things.  Though its been going on 
for load longer.

< I don't know why you would want to class that as a MPU.  Most of these
< terms were invented because a new breed came into existance and it neede
< a new name to distinguish it from what came before.  "Microprocessor"
< was coined to celebrate a logic integration landmark: a computer on a
< single chip.

the terms were invented after the fact.

< > < Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.
< > 
< > What if there are several performing different tasks in the same box.
< 
< OK, Microcomputer:  a computer that runs applications on a single
< microprocessor.

Lessee, my visual 1050 uses the 6502 for video and a z80 for the main cpu 
and a z80 for the MFM hard disk controller (all running concurrently).  
Teh single cpu thing is a sticking point.  

Try: A computer based on microprocessors.

< I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

Or the s100 4 z80 loosely coupled SMP running CP/M2.2... Terminology 
sorta gets mashed.

< > < Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped displa
< > 
< > What if it's a VAX running VMS?  Yes the VS3100s were definatly 
< > workststions.
< 
< OK, Workstation: a computer with a bitmapped display designed to run a
< non-Microsoft multitasking OS.

;') a NON PC pc.

< > < Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 10
< > < simultaneous users.
< > 
< > VAX and minicomputer that could and often did have more than 100 users
< 
< OK, Minicomputer: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped
< display, smaller than a mainframe. 

What about a MicrovaxII servicing a half dozen Xterms?  Or a 11/780 
equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?

Minicomputer: something significantly smaller and cheaper than mainframes 
of the time.  The definition was based on compact size not IO interface
or the presence or lack of a bit mapped display.

< > < Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more user
< > < simultaneously.
< > 
< > Generally big iron and most that had that distinction where physically
< > large.  AKA univac 1180.
< 
< OK, Mainframe: a general purpose computer without a memory-mapped displa
< that weighs at least one ton.

Oh dear.. the video displays on some of the big ums...  Actually the break 
point was again size and especially cost.  At the time mini and mainframe 
were in vogue the difference was around 10/1 in cost and around the same 
or greater for weight.

< Some people use PC's as dedicated controllers, but that doesn't make
< a PC an embedded computer in my mind.  Cross-development seems to be th
< only common factor when people talk about embedded, although there are
< embedded environments, such as QNX, that support native development.

PDP-8s and 11s were some of the mainstays for embedded controls work
and some had local resources enough to develop insitu.  Your viewpoint
is influenced by the current vogue.  ***An embedded system is simply a
system that has a computer (ANY!) burried/coupled to it.***  It could be 
a NC mill with a PDP-8, a production line with a PDP-15 or in later years 
a PLC or a process control system with a s100 crate and Compucolor board 
and color CRT.  I have seen and worked on all of these and more.

Allison



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 21:35:26 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <9a65e737.35f5e96e@aol.com>

BIG TRAK
grrr, i always wanted one of those things! it had a keypad where you punched
in coordinates and then it would carry them out. it also had lazer guns which
you could also program to flash i think. there was an optional dump trailer
too. im sure you could probably find one on epay.com for serveral hundred $.
came out in the early 80's i believe. 

david


In a message dated 9/8/98 10:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinasohn@ricochet.net writes:

<< There's been a few HERO's on ebay lately.  (Don't ask what they sold for.) 
 
 Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
 could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
 bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
 gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^( >>


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Tue Sep  8 21:41:00 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
Message-ID: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca>

Hi All:

Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings for the 8 DIP switches
on a DEC M8357 TX01/RX02 controller?

Thanks,

Kevin


-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From jhfine at idirect.com  Tue Sep  8 22:21:44 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980903133928.29319A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <35F5F448.BFE63BC0@idirect.com>

>James Willing wrote:

> 1) Cypher 9 track tape drive.  800/1600 bpi, 125IPS transport. Just the
> drive, no cabinet.
>
> 1) DEC PDP11/84.  CPU only in 4ft. cabinet suitable for mounting drive in
> top bay.
>
> Drop me a note if interested.  Note: my ISP is having problems with their
> dial up lines (darn US West anyway!) so my access to email is a bit
> sporadic at present...  So don't panic if I don't get right back to you...

Jerome Fine replies:

While I would appreciate the tape drive in order to read some
DEC RT-11 distributions which are now only on 9-track tape,
I understand the drive is VERY heavy.

Also, although the 11/84 is a monster overall, it would be worthwhile
if it were going to the dumpster to at least save the CPU board
which can also be used in a Qbus, but not the memory.

Incidentally, I am in Toronto.    Postage code is M2R 3G3.

Please advise.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Tue Sep  8 23:17:05 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Byte 1st Year in Need of Homej
Message-ID: <3617010f.469236796@insight>

I spotted this in a newsgroup - thought someone might want to contact
him about these mags.  I have no connection with them or with him.

>
>Hi,
>
>I have a set of the first year+ BYTE mags from
>1975-1976. I have issue #1 (Sept. 75) complete
>through Dec. 76. Is there a market for these
>or should i just toss em? It is kinda interesting
>looking at the PC world before there were PCs
>and the evil empire did not exist.
>
>Opinions welcome,
>kbt
>
>P.S. If you email direct make sure the address is:
>
>keith.thompson@east.sun.com

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Tue Sep  8 23:25:18 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: PSU question
Message-ID: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com>

I need to test a possibly bad PSU for an Apple II+.  Can anyone 
(tony?) tell me what I should use for a dummy load?

Thanks.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  9 00:26:11 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21bc02bcc6f@[207.220.32.195]>

>Hi All:
>
>Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings for the 8 DIP switches
>on a DEC M8357 TX01/RX02 controller?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin

Well, the book I've got identifies the M8357 as a RX8E Interface for PDP-8
Omnibus, the M7846 is the RX11 interface for PDP-11 Unibus.  In any case
here is the table.

			Zane



			RX8E (M8357)

	SW1	SW2	SW3	SW4	SW5	SW6
*670X	on	on	on	off	off	off
671X	on	on	off	off	off	on
672X	on	off	on 	off	on	off
673X	on	off	off	off	on	on
674X	OFF	on	on	on	off	off
675X	off	on	off	on	off	on
676X	off	off	on	on	on	off
677X	off	off	off	on	on	on

*Standard
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Wed Sep  9 00:07:53 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: RX01: DIP switch settings - Found Answer!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908230205.008102f0@fw.itm-inst.com>
References: <199809090237.TAA29082@fraser.sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980908220753.02fec6d0@ferrari.sfu.ca>

Hi Group:

Thanks to Rick Murphy, I have the answer to my query. Turns out that the
info was also on my own website, in the RX01/02 maintenance manual. I
should've looked there first!

See http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8 for pdp-8 docs, software, and other info.
Kevin


At 11:02 PM 98/09/08 -0400, you wrote:
>At 07:37 PM 9/8/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote:
>>Hi Group:
>>
>>Anyone have the specs for the DIP switch settings on the M8357
>>RX01/RX02 interface board? There are 8 switches in the block.
>
>Switch 7 and 8 are not connected. S1-S6 set the IOT (device code).
>
>            S1 S2 S3 S4 S5 S6 S7 S8
>Normal (75)  0  1  0  1  0  1 NC NC
>Other  (76)  0  0  1  1  1  0 NC NC
>
>On the RX02 M7744 module, set S1-1/S1-2 to off.
>	-Rick
>
>
>

---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:11:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908173823.3546A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908220616.12917G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Oh boy, taxonomy again!  OK, here's my stab:
> 
> Microprocessor: a single-chip CPU.
> 
> Microcomputer: a computer based on a single microprocessor.

What about dual-CPU desktop Pentium machines?  What are those?

> Personal computer: an interactive computer small enough to fit on a desk
> and inexpensive enough to be owned by a single average person.

Define "inexpensive" again?

> Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.

Eww.

> Minicomputer: a timesharing computer that can support fewer than 100
> simultaneous users.

What about a PC running Linux?

> Mainframe: a timesharing computer than can support 100 or more users
> simultaneously.

What about a souped-up, dual processor PC running Linux with 128 serial
ports (it CAN be done)?

> Single-board computer: a computer with CPU, memory, and I/O support on a
> single board.

So this includes: Apple ][+, Commodore 64, IBM PC, the Pentium box sitting
beside my desk?

> Programmable calculator: a computer without general-purpose alphanumeric
> data processing and display facilities.

So this would be a Kim-1, AIM-65, SYM-1, any-single-board-computer-with-a
-keypad-and-limited-LED-display?

> All-in-one computer: a computer with built-in display, keyboard, and
> storage device. 

No printer?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:35:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908211359.27656A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223456.12917I-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> signals from an A/D box). Mainframes are not interactive things - they
> like to work on huge jobs that require moving tons of information on 
> disk or tape to more disk or tape, often with little human interaction at
> all. Take a look at IBMs terminals (327x) - they are quite smart, sending
> out whole chunks of data, preassembled for the mainframe. The mainframe
> need not be bothered dealing with escape characters and such to move the
> cursor around - it has better things to do. The less keypresses, the
> better.

I think you're definitely on to something here.  This is the best
distinction I've seen yet to describe a mainframe.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:39:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980908182004.6067f180@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(

My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
by Radio Shack?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 00:45:02 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908224246.12917K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
6502/Commodore PET fame.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 02:20:50 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F62C52.6ADA857A@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
> 
> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
> 
> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
> by Radio Shack?

No, though I think Radio Shack did resell them for a couple of years,
likely relabeled.  As was (and is) common with Radio Shack, though
this last few years there's less relabeling.  Back in the 80-86
period when I was with the company, the normal percentage was 40% of
the products in a product line were manufactured by Tandy Corp.  In
computers, the ratio was higher, though almost all printers were
relabels.  Aside from the Pocket Computers, the first Radio Shack
computer manufactured outside and relabeled was the 1200HD, built by
Tandon, an XT clone with no redeeming value other than filling the gap
until the 1000 series was functional -- the 1200HD had an incredible
rate of motherboard replacement under warranty, charged against the
managers of the selling stores -- I've heard rumors the buyer _was_
fired for it eventually.  To the best of my knowledge that pattern
held to the early '90s, though with increased influx of peripherals
by other companies (many components of course were always from
outside), until the hardware market became so unprofitable that
Tandy sold the computer manufacturing capability to AST.

(It's a pain to go into a Radio Shack store and find no computers on
displays except Aptivas or whatever the brand of the month might be.
It's worse to find nobody who knows that Radio Shack was once a
serious and innovative computer manufacturer -- I've had better luck
there at Computer City, where a lot of long-time Radio Shack folks
who's been around migrated when Tandy opened that chain -- who knows
where they'll go with the sale of Computer City to the incompetents
at CompUSA?)

I am no longer a stockholder in Tandy Corporation.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  9 06:37:45 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <00c701bddbe6$44425200$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

>On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>> > Workstation: a computer designed to run Unix with a bitmapped display.
>The problem with this definition is that it would include a PC running
>Windows.  Very few seem to be willing to call that a workstation.
>
>A workstation has to be *designed* to be networked, graphical, and
>multitasking.  The Amiga would have been a workstation if it has
>networking built-in.  If somebody built a PC that had networking built-in
>and ran Windows NT, but could not run MS-DOS, I might be willing to call
>that a workstation.
>
How about the iMac it has networking built in and AFAIK doen't run MS stuff.
I think that todays machines are so versatile that it is pretty hard to
differenciate them out of the box, The way they are used makes them a
workstation, a server, a personal computer or what not, not the hardware
itself.



From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 08:23:15 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: PSU question
Message-ID: <9808099053.AA905372754@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

> I need to test a possibly bad PSU for an Apple II+.  Can anyone 
> (tony?) tell me what I should use for a dummy load?

I don't know what the Apple ][ or // used in the way of current, but 
Commodore PETs of that date used 2 to 4 amps, I think.  (Early PETs, 
iirc, had 4 1A regulator chips on different bits of 5V rail).

You want something to draw around 1/2 to 1 amp.  6V torch (flashlight) 
bulb - one of the nice krypton ones that runs of a big rectangular 
battery would be ideal.  12V 10W car lamp bulb would do, though it won't 
glow more than dull orange when working.  10 ohm resistor would work, 
but it probably needs to be a really big fat one - in a rectangular 
ceramic package or with built in alumin(i)um heatsink.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Philip.



From william at ans.net  Wed Sep  9 08:25:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090150.TAA11874@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909091738.9183B-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> I'd always heard that Crays
> were best fed a colossal program and left alone, but didn't realise it held true
> for most/all mainframes.

Crays (at least the old ones) like to be left alone to crunch, requiring
human interaction just about every day when they crash or break (the price
of being in front of the edge). The new ones are better.

> Speaking of Crays, one of the first *big* computers to inspire lust in my 
> heart was a Cray 1.  Anyone got one of THOSE in the basement?

Well, I am looking...Cray, ETA, Connection Machine, Convex, Multiflow,
MasPas, nCube...

They are out there - I think one of the M$ biggies has a small collection
of Crays and CMs.

Then there is that ETA-10P in the basement of a high school out here on
the East Coast.

> And can
> anyone tell me how they stack up to modern computers performancewise?  I was
> exposed to one at an impressionable young age at the National Center for 
> Atmospheric Research, and know next to nothing about them.

The line is really getting close these days. An UltraSPARC or Pentium
whatever has the horsepower in the CPU, but the old Crays still beat them
out for I/O bandwidth (and resulting sustained floating point
performance). That should fall quite soon, then it will be up to
the X/MPs to carry the Cray standard.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:11:33 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:31 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>> I really don't know what to call a SMP PC, though.  Microsupercomputer?

> These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
> essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.

So this PC, I'm curently working on, on my desktop with 4 CPUs
and Win 3.51, is a Mini ? Gosh - I always thought is was just an
ordinary PC for my dayly Tasks with Word & co.

:)
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:11:33 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091354.PAA16854@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> The rule I use is simple : 

> If the CPU is one chip (like a Z80, or a pentium) or a chipset that's 
> always used together to make that CPU (like a F11, or the early IBM 6000 
> CPU) -> It's a micro

> If the CPU is a lot of standard chips (gates, flip-flops, ALUs, bit-slice 
> stuff), and it fits into at most a couple of 6' racks -> it's a mini

> If the CPU takes up most of the room -> it's a mainfame.

> If it meets the 3M critera (Megabyte, Megapixel, Mips) -> it's a workstation.

> Now, this leads to some interesting ones. By that definition, a PDP11/23 
> is a micro. But a PDP11/34 is a mini. The 370-on-a-card is probably also 
> a micro.

> Note that 'workstation' says nothing about the CPU. I'd claim a Sun3 is a 
> worktation _and_ a micro. A PERQ 2 is a workstation and a mini. 

> Those definitions aren't perfect, but they seem to work for me.

I think ruling the CPU isn't exatly the way to describe this
classes, since even a mainframe type computer can have singe
chip processors, and a micro can consist of a whole chip graveyard.

But your Note leads a trace: try the design goal as class.

So, a mainframe is a general purpose computer specaly designed
to transport, merge and modify data like a big steel plant
modifies iron. Using only a small number of programms but serving
the same task a _huge_ mass of users. Usualy these are just /370ish
designs.

A Mini is some kind of 'big' computer designed to serve
a lot of people in an individual sense, giving every
user (and sometimes even every single programm) the
feeling of a complete independant computer. The OS is
wasing a lot of resouces (not needed on mainframes) to
ensure coexistence, fast programm change etc. The OS is
mostly unix-like.

A Workstation is 4M (you just missed the Megabucks :).
A workstaton serves the needs of only one user.
The OS is in most cases very graphic-able orientated.

An average PC is just a workstation on a lower level, running
several different application (maybe even at the same time)
to serve every person as his own computer like a mini, but
without sharing anything. The OS is almost complete graphic
orientated.

I think this sceme is sufficient for all GPC. If you miss
the micro, its just because it represents no class of its
own. The micro can be just a very small mini, or he is a
PC(Workstation). Didn't the Wozniak once state that every
micro before the A2 was just a small singe user mini ?

Gruss
H.



--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Wed Sep  9 09:07:24 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
> > These days, a mini. Look at one of Suns Ultra Enterprise systems -
> > essentially as many UltraSPARC CPUs that you want to shove in one box.
> 
> So this PC, I'm curently working on, on my desktop with 4 CPUs
> and Win 3.51, is a Mini ? Gosh - I always thought is was just an

A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.

On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.

  -Wayne




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 11:39:56 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809091422.QAA02649@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> Ahhh.  I guess it shows that I've done very very little with mainframes and 
>>> learned everything I know on Micros and Mini's.  I stand corrected. :)

>> I hope my message did not come across as a flame, but there are a lot of
>> misconceptions about mainframes (the biggest is that they are dead!). They
>> are different beasts, certainly. Almost everything about them is in some
>> way different than the rest of the computing world (micros, minis) - from
>> benchmarks and architecture to fabrication and networking (compare SNA to
>> TCP/IP and you will see black and white).

> Well, as an old DEC guy who later worked for IBM... I agree, although

So, there are at least tree of us holding the
banner for the real (big) guys :)

> with Posix Compliant mainframe software that meets the Unix spec
> and runs the Apache webserver... mainframes aren't mainframes anymore.

Oh-Oh, did you ever took a look at the resulting ASSM code ?
Did yo uever trace the extreamly inperformant I/O calls for
unix like file systems ?

A mainframe can only produce it's marvelous throughput if
the data is well prepared - handling every byte of a string
inside a loop and check for zero is like using a using a
truck for moving a pice of paper.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep  9 10:29:46 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.co
 m>
References: <199809091354.PAA16707@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980909102946.3c8fd81a@intellistar.net>

At 10:07 AM 9/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
>NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
>pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
>of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.
>
>On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
>keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.
>
>  -Wayne
>

  Geez,  I'll bet that that one smoked!   Sounds like just what you need to
run Windozes '95 effectively.

   Joe



From erd at infinet.com  Wed Sep  9 09:38:42 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909100112.18767B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 9, 98 10:07:24 am
Message-ID: <199809091438.KAA02932@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> A previous employer of mine bought a cool mini/PC several years ago:  An
> NCR 3000 series.  Could handle something like 8 CPU cards with multiple
> pentiums, had a UPS in the cabinet, 50 some hot-swappable SCSI bays, 512MB
> of ram, multiple micro-channel buses and SCSI adapters, SVr4, etc.

We use them at work, here.  The model that I have personally seen that most 
resembles your description is the NCR 3555.  We have those and bigger boxes
like the NCR 4380, which I think runs PPro boards, not just Pentia.  NCR's
latest offerings are PCI, not Microchannel, at least.  They do have some nice
quad-SCSI cards, fiber serial cards (AT&T Datakit) and more, but no sound
card.  :-(

> On the back of the small-refrigerator sized box were a PC-style VGA and
> keyboard connector!  It would boot and run MS-DOS ;)  hahaha.
> 
>   -Wayne

I got such a kick out of that when I saw someone boot DOS to run a diagnostic
package that I commented on what a nice Quake server this $100K (new) server
would make.  I got such a dirty look.  ;-)







From pgrammen at sonic.net  Wed Sep  9 12:38:47 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 pinouts
In-Reply-To: <m0zGYED-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980908171250.0083ed10@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909103847.00793ae0@pop.sonic.net>

>Are you sure _anything_ is wrong? By default the sound from the phone 
>line is routed (much distorted) to the internal speaker, I think. You 
>might just have been hearing a distorted dial tone.
>

It works! Thanks for the help, Tony. The static sound is apparently the
carrier. I got it to work by connecting the phone wires per your
instructions and using the dialer to dial, THEN entering the terminal mode.
With the external modem I was entering the terminal mode and typing Hayes
modem commands to dial, etc. That doesn't work with the internal 300 baud
modem. 

Thanks again for the detailed information!
-Paul



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 13:34:18 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Need an obituary for Don Tarbell
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909113027.26554B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


Hello all.

If you're not aware of this, Don Tarbell, of the famous Tarbell Cassette
standard, died earlier this year.  Someone posted about this on the list
around the time he passed on.

I'd like to display an "obituary" at the Vintage Computer Festival.  I'll
give a free pass to this (or a future) Vintage Computer Festival and a VCF
t-shirt to anyone who wants to write up an obituary for Mr. Tarbell.

Ideally, the write-up should include his contributions to the world of
computing, including a good historical account of his cassette standard
and other technical acheivements, as well as what companies he founded,
etc.  The requisite obituary information such as date of birth/death,
hometown, etc. should also be included.

I would need to have this by the 20th or so.  Please contact me by private
e-mail if you are interested.  Thanks!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Wed Sep  9 14:33:30 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Even better book source
In-Reply-To: <199809091438.KAA02932@user2.infinet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980909153147.19956A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

Over the weekend, someone (Sam?) posted about the ABE book source on the
'net.  I told a friend about it, and got this response:

>Tell your friend to try:
>www.mxbf.com    MX BookFinders
>This is a guy who wrote a search of ABE plus about a dozen other sites.
>It searches them all at the same time, even takes a price range or first
>edition request.  He then forwards your request to the company and you're
>on your way.  I've got a used book coming from Australia.


  -Wayne




From franke at sbs.de  Wed Sep  9 17:30:32 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <199809092013.WAA07090@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
> person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
> 6502/Commodore PET fame.

The last thing I remember is his role as some kind of chairman for 
Tandon - somewhen around 1989 or 1990.


Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com  Wed Sep  9 15:22:03 1998
From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!
Message-ID: <FFD1BA74C6A7D111A09500805F9F88F505A325DD@RED-MSG-43>

Heh heh, this took some doing, but I got it for ya, phone # coming in
private mail.

Kai

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:45 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: NEED HELP FINDING CHUCK PEDDLE!!!



I'll give a LIFETIME PASS TO THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL to the first
person who successfully gets me in touch with CHUCK PEDDLE of
6502/Commodore PET fame.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]


From ecloud at goodnet.com  Wed Sep  9 15:34:34 1998
From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980908223842.12917J-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 8, 98 10:39:51 pm
Message-ID: <199809092034.NAA02981@goodnet.com>

> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
> 
> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
> 
> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made

When I was in 4th grade a classmate had one.  We were all jealous of course.
I think he said it went for $80.

Seems like maybe it picked itself up on a turntable in order to make 
turns in-place.  I'm pretty sure the wheels didn't steer.

-- 


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Wed Sep  9 11:46:07 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
In-Reply-To: <199809092013.WAA07090@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809092022.QAA10771@commercial.cgocable.net>

While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner 
have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.

Contact him:

george@compurent.net

His location of business:

Kingston, Ontario, Canda
481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3

PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!

email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  9 15:52:36 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809092052.NAA03329@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
>could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
>bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
>gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(

I have one of the 4.5v Lego/Dacta Robotics kits that hooks up to my Apple 
IIe (conveniently making this post on-topic).  I bought it through the 
school when Lego discontinued the kits last year.  The system is based on 
Logo.  The motors and sensors connect to the external interface box, 
which is connected to the Apple IIe via a 20 pin ribbon cable and 
interface card (which I think is really just a scaled down serial card).

There are touch sensors, optosensors, motors, and lights for the kit.  I 
currently have mine set up around my 9v Lego train, using the sensors to 
detect when it passes, the motors to raise and lower the crossing gates.

There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Wed Sep  9 16:11:47 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>

>> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
>> 
>> > Similarly, does anyone remember a truck-like thing (big trax?) that you
>> > could program sorta like LOGO?  I remember the commercials showed it
>> > bringing a soda (or beer?) to one lucky owner.  Unfortunately, my family's
>> > gift budgets never would have covered such a nifty gadget...  8^(
>> 
>> My oldest brother got one of those for Christmas in maybe '78.  Those were
>> cool!  I hope I run into one of them one of these days.  Weren't they made
>
>When I was in 4th grade a classmate had one.  We were all jealous of course.
>I think he said it went for $80.
>
>Seems like maybe it picked itself up on a turntable in order to make 
>turns in-place.  I'm pretty sure the wheels didn't steer.
>
I believe you're talking about the Mattel "Big Trak"?  My nephews had one of
those many years ago.  I believe it used tank-type steering; six wheels, and
it could either lock one set and pivot using the others, or reverse one
side.  I've got some surplus gearboxes and motors from the Big Trak that I
purchased several years ago.  They're kind of neat; they have two motors and
gear trains, linked together with a couple of big magnets.  If you run both
in the same direction, the magnets are strong enough to force both motors to
turn at the same speed.  If you reverse one of the motors, the magnets
alternately repel and attract.  This either forces the machine to drive in a
straight line, or to pivot about its center, respectively.  They also have
an optical interrupter on one gear so the CPU can tell how far the motors
have turned.  It had a hookup to dump the trailer, and I think some other
options that never were released.  It was a pretty cool toy.  

A quick web search found this:

BigTrak User's Guide:
http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/brown/BT_UG/

BigTrak Simulator Project:
http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/corke/

BigTrak Repair Service:
http://www.lavalamp.demon.co.uk/bigtrak/bigtrak.htm

                                        Bill Richman
                                        incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                                        (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
                                         microcomputer simulator!)



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:37:53 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980908194021.29282D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> from "Doug Yowza" at Sep 8, 98 07:53:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoBo-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 13:11:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <9808099053.AA905372754@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Sep 9, 98 01:23:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoiA-000IyTC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:51:53 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <199809090241.TAA29831@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Sep 8, 98 07:41:00 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoPM-000IyQC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 12:59:01 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 8, 98 11:25:18 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGoWH-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 17:16:22 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
References: <199809092022.QAA10771@commercial.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <35F6FE36.126550BB@cnct.com>

jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:
> 
> While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner
> have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.
> 
> Contact him:
> 
> george@compurent.net
> 
> His location of business:
> 
> Kingston, Ontario, Canda
> 481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3
> 
> PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!

(It's too far away or I'd jump at it).

The Tandy 6000HD is the version of the Tandy 6000 with one of the two
built-in floppy drives (8" half-height double-sided) replaced with a
15 Mbyte hard drive.  The CPU is an 8MHz 68000 that has a Z-80 CPU to
handle I/O (in fact, the Z-80 can boot all by itself to run older
software for the TRS-80 Model II or Model 12).  The normal operating
system is Xenix.  Stock RAM is 512K or 1Mb.  I'll be putting up a
bunch of info on the Tandy 2/12/16/6000 line when I finally get to
have a web page stored on my local systems instead of the measily
10 Mb my ISP allocates -- a fast link a static IP address through the
cable TV company is supposed to be available _sometime_ this quarter.
When that happens, I also hope to provide a guest login to the Tandy
Xenix system through a serial connection from my Linux box.  (Also
the AT&T Unix PC and maybe even the Coco 3 running OS-9 Level II).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 17:35:36 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: PSU question
In-Reply-To: <m0zGoWH-000IyRC@p850ug1>
References: <199809090320.WAA00813@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 8, 98 11:25:18 pm
Message-ID: <199809092130.QAA02139@trailingedge.com>

Thanks Tony.  I'll see about picking up the blubs this weekend and 
give it a try.

> Now, all you need to load is the +5V line and maybe the +12V line. About
> 1A on the former and 200mA on the latter. 
> 
> Try using a 6V 6W bulb between the +5V pin and ground (it doesn't matter
> which ground pin you use) and a 12V 2W (or 2.2W, which is more common in
> the UK) bulb between the +12V pin and ground. The latter is a common car
> bulb, and the former should be available from a car shop that still
> supplies parts for old vehicles (or maybe a motorbike shop?)


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  8 19:51:59 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
Message-ID: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>


    While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
thing).

    Does anyone have any info on this beast?

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From rcini at email.msn.com  Tue Sep  8 19:48:59 1998
From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
Message-ID: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice>

    I was thinking about this the other night {it was a slow night :-)} --
how does the DC option on the PDP-11 work (besides the obvious)? My 11/34
has a DC light on the panel, but I know that my unit did not come with a
battery backup unit.

    What was involved with the DC option? Was it a special PSU and
batteries? Or was it a board and separate UPS?

    Just curious...

Rich Cini/WUGNET  <nospam_rcini@msn.com>
  - ClubWin/CW7
  - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
  - Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>





From cdrmool at interlog.com  Wed Sep  9 17:36:02 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Recuse alert!   Tandy 6000HD
In-Reply-To: <35F6FE36.126550BB@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909183508.14561A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Can you tell me a bit more?  I can go and grab this fairly soon but what
does he want for it?   


Colan





On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote:
> > 
> > While I was hunting for disposal stuff today, a rental computer owner
> > have this Tandy 6000HD in fair condition but no keyboard.
> > 
> > Contact him:
> > 
> > george@compurent.net
> > 
> > His location of business:
> > 
> > Kingston, Ontario, Canda
> > 481 Princess ST, K7L 1C3
> > 
> > PS:  What is on earth is Tandy 6000HD is?!
> 
> (It's too far away or I'd jump at it).
> 
> The Tandy 6000HD is the version of the Tandy 6000 with one of the two
> built-in floppy drives (8" half-height double-sided) replaced with a
> 15 Mbyte hard drive.  The CPU is an 8MHz 68000 that has a Z-80 CPU to
> handle I/O (in fact, the Z-80 can boot all by itself to run older
> software for the TRS-80 Model II or Model 12).  The normal operating
> system is Xenix.  Stock RAM is 512K or 1Mb.  I'll be putting up a
> bunch of info on the Tandy 2/12/16/6000 line when I finally get to
> have a web page stored on my local systems instead of the measily
> 10 Mb my ISP allocates -- a fast link a static IP address through the
> cable TV company is supposed to be available _sometime_ this quarter.
> When that happens, I also hope to provide a guest login to the Tandy
> Xenix system through a serial connection from my Linux box.  (Also
> the AT&T Unix PC and maybe even the Coco 3 running OS-9 Level II).
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 17:47:48 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
In-Reply-To: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909154610.18891A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
> Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
> it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
> data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
> thing).

There was at least one other SBC like this.  I have an Explorer 85 that
has room for two S-100 slots (mine has one S-100 connector soldered in).
And I believe my SD Z-80 Starter System SBC can also accomodate an S-100
board.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 17:57:26 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
In-Reply-To: <000301bddc42$387b5140$025ffea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909175459.4717A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

>     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for the
> Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks like
> it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display, and
> data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such a
> thing).

It's easy to imagine an Altair-KIM hyrid since one actually existed.  It
was called the KIMSAI -- an S-100 extension for the KIM by ThinkerToys. 

-- Doug



From cdrmool at interlog.com  Wed Sep  9 18:01:53 1998
From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909185917.16465C-100000@shell1.interlog.com>

Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  I've
stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested I'll
get it scanned and uploaded. 



colan






From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Wed Sep  9 18:19:26 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
In-Reply-To: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 8, 98 08:48:59 pm
Message-ID: <199809092319.TAA24698@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
>     I was thinking about this the other night {it was a slow night :-)} --
> how does the DC option on the PDP-11 work (besides the obvious)? My 11/34
> has a DC light on the panel, but I know that my unit did not come with a
> battery backup unit.
> 
>     What was involved with the DC option? Was it a special PSU and
> batteries? Or was it a board and separate UPS?
> 
>     Just curious...
> 
> 

Working from distant DEC Field Service memory...

It was a wiring harness, batteries, a couple of jumpers on the 
backplane and a regulator.


Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:02:59 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092034.NAA02981@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Sep 9, 98 01:34:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtGV-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:04:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092052.NAA03329@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 9, 98 01:52:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtHc-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep  9 18:45:18 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: How did DC Unit on PDP11 work??
In-Reply-To: <000201bddc42$37a11de0$025ffea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 8, 98 08:48:59 pm
Message-ID: <m0zGtvN-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Sep  9 19:05:47 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: FW: Your post on ebay
Message-ID: <000301bddc4e$c2fd9380$60afadce@5x86jk>


Hey guys anybody want to follow-up with this MacPlus offer
-----Original Message-----
From: mkreutz@brook.edu [mailto:mkreutz@brook.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 4:32 PM
To: jrkeys@concentric.net
Subject: Your post on ebay


Hi there,

I'm replying to your post on ebay.

I have an Apple Mac Plus computer purchased in 1988/89.  It's in
excellent condition!!!  I have all the software, the system 7 upgrade
and other goodies that came with it (plus a hard drive that was custom
built for it).  I also have an ImageWriter printer and unopened
ribbons.  If you are interested, please let me know and we can discuss
it further.  I think I may still have some of the original boxes.  I'd
like to find it a good home!!!  :)

Best regards,

Mica
(ebay ID is mek2)




<<<<Posted by jthecman (37)  on 09/09/98 at 14:14:54 PDT

Auctions

  Wanted: old or new computer demos used by the dealers to get your
attention as you walk into the store. Looking for any
  brand of computer starting back in 1956 to present For hand held
devices also like the apple newton palm pilot's. email me
  with your price private collector so my funds are limited. Also
looking for old computer toys from the 1950's to 1980's.>>>>>



From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Wed Sep  9 19:54:59 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: DIP Switch Settings for DEC M8357 RX01/RX02 Controller???
In-Reply-To: <v04011704b21bc02bcc6f@[207.220.32.195]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 8, 98 09:26:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809100054.RAA03631@fraser.sfu.ca>

Thanks!

Kevin

-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  9 20:13:19 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809100113.SAA27182@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>> There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!
>
>Nonsense!. A Fischertechnik robotics kit controlled by a calculator is 
>infinitely more fun :-) :-) :-)... And yes, I have done that.

Well that figures!  ;-)

What kind of calculator?  Something simple, or more like a TI-86 (which I 
consider a computer)?

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Sep  9 20:01:34 1998
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Mac's for Sale
Message-ID: <000001bddc56$8de47620$65afadce@5x86jk>

Before I place these on eBay let me know if anyone wants them for 20.00 each
(my cost) asis not tested. I purchased 3 machines for someone and then they
cjhanged their mind and only took one of the three. one is IIvx with 230 meg
HD in it and the other is a IIcx with a ony 40meg HD in it, again these are
ASIS I have not tried to test them at all. I already have 2 vx's and 3 or 4
cx's in storage.



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 20:22:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>

I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
me wonder.  Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 20:48:05 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

	MICROSOFT BUYS TEX, PLANS NEW PRODUCTS

	STANFORD PROFESSOR REAPS WINDFALL

PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA, USA (CNEWS/MSNBC) --- In a major move into the
scientific publishing market, Microsoft Corporation announced today that it
has purchased all rights to the computer language and document compiler
known as TeX (pronounced, "tech"), and plans a major new product line based
on the 20-year-old software.

Stanford Professor Donald Knuth (pronounced, "kah-nooth"), the author of
the widely-used TeX software, in a joint press conference at the university
campus with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, acknowledged that the two had
been negotiating for some months. "I felt that two decades of TeX in the
public domain was enough. I am reasserting the copyright to my original work
in TeX.  Microsoft will carry the ball now, and I can get back to my
computer science research." Knuth acknowledged he was paid a "seven-figure
sum" from Microsoft, which he will use to finance his work on a project he
has code-named "Volume 4".

At the press conference, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said the acquisition
was "the kind of cooperation between academia and industry that builds
prosperity for both." He added that TeX would "finally give Microsoft a
foothold in mathematical desktop publishing" that has eluded the software
giant since its founding. Drawing gasps of surprise from the college
audience, Gates asserted that "TeX will soon be biggest jewel in the
Microsoft crown."

Apparently the jewel metaphor will include a hefty, unavoidable price tag
for future TeX users. Gates outlined plans whereby all existing TeX
compilers would be phased out, to be replaced by a new Microsoft master
implementation written in C++. Beta versions for public testing on Windows
95 and NT platforms are expected in late 1998, issuing from a new
205-programmer project laboratory at Microsoft's Redmond campus. Microsoft
TeX for other platforms, such as Unix workstations, will follow at an as-yet
unspecified date. According to Gates, "the master TeX from Microsoft will
ensure that the incompatibilities across platforms are once and for all
eliminated." TeX software is widely used due its portability, although
variations among operating systems have been troublesome due to
uncoordinated development.

Unlike the technical aspects of the project, Gates explained that pricing
for Microsoft TeX has already been firmly set. The single-user retail
product is expected to have a street price of about $600 and consist of
three CDs. When heckled by an graduate student complaining about a high
price for a formerly free product, Gates seemed startled, explaining that
a "student edition at $299 is likely" and that "Microsoft will use the
revenue to make TeX better."

Most current users of TeX have paid nothing for their implementations,
derived from Professor Knuth's formerly-free work. Before leaving the
podium, Gates made a final comment that "TeX hasn't changed in years. What
kind of a product can that be?", and then handed the microphone to an
assistant, introduced only as the project leader for Microsoft TeX.

The assistant displayed an overhead presentation using the current test
version of Microsoft TeX. Equations and tables could be seen dissolving into
each other in a morphing action between frames. "No one has ever done that
with TeX," Gates announced from an audience seat at one point. "It's the
kind of sizzle that can really enliven a dull paper at an academic
conference." Some onlookers were not convinced, especially when the program
crashed midway through the demonstration, resulting in a five-minute delay
while Windows 95 was restarted.  Microsoft technicians later blamed a
third-party display driver.

The impact on the large base of existing TeX users was unclear. During a
question-and-answer period, Gates said that the "TeX" trademark would be
registered as the exclusive property of Microsoft, and could not appear in
any competitive or free software. "We are granting of our own good will
until the 3rd quarter of 1998, free use to any existing TeX vendors or
public-domain authors. That's plenty of time for an orderly phase-out and
change-over to Microsoft TeX, or no TeX at all. After that, our legal
department will be contacting them."

A Microsoft attorney added that some of the project personnel would be
dedicated to searching the Internet to find non-Microsoft TeX software.
"Archives and collections of TeX-related programs will not be permitted.
The standards must be enforced, or they become meaningless. We are rescuing
a fine piece of work from being diluted into worthlessness. You would not
believe the number of programs that have been based on TeX without any
central, controlling authority. We will stop this infringement."

Some large organizations dependent on TeX were stunned by the announcment
and had not yet formed plans for dealing with the change. At the American
Mathematical Society, whose publications largely depend on TeX for
typesetting, editor Barbara Beeton was incensed. "I can't believe Don
[Professor Donald Knuth] sold us out like this. We should have never based
a publishing enterprise of this scope on so-called public-domain software.
What were we thinking?" Publication schedules for the rest of 1998 were on
hold, and journal editors scrambled to reassure their authors that deadlines
would not slip more than a few months.

Certain small businesses are also expected to feel the impact of the
Microsoft ownership of TeX. Palo Alto restaurant owner Wu Chen appeared
unhappy at the news, stating that "for ten year I print new menu every day
with TeX, now I will pay big time." He displayed a crumpled, grease-spotted
take-out flyer, and with tears in his eyes explained how multiple columns,
exotic typefaces, and daily price changes could all be printed by TeX in a
multi-lingual format. "In Wordperfect this would be a long journey."

Commercial vendors of TeX software stand to lose everything in the face of
the new Microsoft monopoly. While most derivatives of TeX were freely
published, several companies had made a business of publishing proprietary
versions. One anonymous source from a leading TeX firm said that "publishing
TeX was a gold mine while it lasted, and the Internet let us mine it deeper
and deeper. Now this is a cave-in right on our heads. TeX was a monumental
work of beauty and utility, freely given to the world by one of the finest
and most generous minds of the 20th century. Now it belongs to a lucky
dropout. We're finished."





From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Sep  9 20:51:26 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Mac's for Sale
Message-ID: <030301bddc5d$86cea200$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com>

I'll take them. Are they complete? monitor and kbd? It doesn't make a
difference though.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Keys, Jr. <jrkeys@concentric.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 8:17 PM
Subject: Mac's for Sale


>Before I place these on eBay let me know if anyone wants them for 20.00
each
>(my cost) asis not tested. I purchased 3 machines for someone and then they
>cjhanged their mind and only took one of the three. one is IIvx with 230
meg
>HD in it and the other is a IIcx with a ony 40meg HD in it, again these are
>ASIS I have not tried to test them at all. I already have 2 vx's and 3 or 4
>cx's in storage.
>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 20:51:51 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909184806.5586A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
> hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
> to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
> original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
> me wonder.  Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
> you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
> wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".

Don't be afraid to strip away the shrink-wrap and use this thing.  Unless
you're planning on selling this at auction 20-30 years from now, I don't
think there's much sense in keeping it in this condition.  If you had,
say, 3 or 4 of them in shrinkwrap, or one loose card and 1 in shrinkwrap,
then sure, I'd keep it in shrinkwrap for show.  But if you've only got
one, open it up and use it.

And as you alluded to, there's no telling how many times the box you have
has been shrink-wrapped in the past for re-sale.  And if you want to
return it to its "pristine" condition, you can always re-shrinkwrap it
once you've had your fun with the card.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 20:59:25 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
behind this?


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Wed Sep  9 20:59:20 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
Message-ID: <bc707495.35f73278@aol.com>

In response to bill's final comment about, "what kind of product can that be?"
hmmm, perhaps a less buggy and workable product?

david


In a message dated 9/9/98 9:50:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yowza@yowza.com
writes:

<< Most current users of TeX have paid nothing for their implementations,
 derived from Professor Knuth's formerly-free work. Before leaving the
 podium, Gates made a final comment that "TeX hasn't changed in years. What
 kind of a product can that be?", and then handed the microphone to an
 assistant, introduced only as the project leader for Microsoft TeX. >>


From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep  9 21:23:41 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Browsing old BYTEs - Signetics Instructor 50
Message-ID: <199809100223.AA02996@world.std.com>


< >     While browsing several old BYTE magazines, I came across an ad for
< > Signetics Instructor 50 SBC. Althoug the ad wasn't very good, it looks
< > it could be an SBC style S-100 Altair clone with a hex keypad, display
< > data switches. Sort of an Altair-KIM hybrid (if one can imagine such 
< > thing).
< 
< There was at least one other SBC like this.  I have an Explorer 85 that
< has room for two S-100 slots (mine has one S-100 connector soldered in)
< And I believe my SD Z-80 Starter System SBC can also accomodate an S-10
< board.

As someone with an actively used Netronics Explorer 8085, yes that one 
had two s100 slots and a 5 slot extender (level E) as well.

That class of machines was not uncommon.  There was a front pannel 
replacement with display and keypad (8080 too!) for s100 machines.

Allison



From kyrrin at jps.net  Wed Sep  9 21:08:42 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909204659.4717N-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980909192739.kyrrin@jps.net>


On 10-Sep-98 Doug Yowza wrote:

>       MICROSOFT BUYS TEX, PLANS NEW PRODUCTS
>       STANFORD PROFESSOR REAPS WINDFALL

        <read with a weird mix of horror and disgust, then snipped>

        As I recall, at least one of our list members works at
Microsoft (Kai? Would that be you?)

        If so, perhaps they could comment on whether this wild story is
anywhere close to factual. Sam's right; it smells too much like
someone's idea of a -very- bad joke.
  
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 09-Sep-98 at 19:08:47, Pacific 
Web -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep  9 21:37:13 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> behind this?

Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What do you
think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

-- Doug



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Wed Sep  9 22:21:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909184806.5586A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>

Don't worry Sam, this is one item that won't find it's way up to 
EBay.  I'm already in the process of going through it and looking at 
installing it in my Apple ///.  And yes, I have a shrink-wrap gun so if 
I wanted to make millions on EBay I can alway re-wrap it. :-)  It 
was just a small part of me didn't want to break the virgin seal.

Looking at the cover of the box it says,

"SOS
DOS
and
CP/M"

SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
own.

On 9 Sep 98, at 18:51, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Don't be afraid to strip away the shrink-wrap and use this thing.  Unless
> you're planning on selling this at auction 20-30 years from now, I don't
> think there's much sense in keeping it in this condition.  If you had,
> say, 3 or 4 of them in shrinkwrap, or one loose card and 1 in shrinkwrap,
> then sure, I'd keep it in shrinkwrap for show.  But if you've only got
> one, open it up and use it.
> 
> And as you alluded to, there's no telling how many times the box you have
> has been shrink-wrapped in the past for re-sale.  And if you want to
> return it to its "pristine" condition, you can always re-shrinkwrap it
> once you've had your fun with the card.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep  9 22:28:07 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F74747.FAE8181B@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> behind this?

It's a joke, son.

Please note the smiley in the subject header.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep  9 22:48:11 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net>

Hello.

Please forgive me if I mess up on any model numbers or names here.  I'm not
all that familiar with Apple computers.

I'm looking for an old Apple // (?) - The small portable type.  I'm looking
for the older model with the 5.25" built-in disk drive (external p/s).  I'm
looking for the type with the LCD display.  If you have one without one,
let me know anyway.  I don't want to pay all that much for one (w/o LCD),
because they're fairly common (my school probably has about 20 on each
floor, but they don't want to get rid of any of them).

I need it to replace an old Franklin Ace 1200 that's a little too big for
the limited space that I have.  All I'm basically looking for is the main
computer.  I'm not looking for any manuals, disks, monitors (unless it's
LCD), or anything like that.  I'll I'm asking is that it works (I have a
monitor).

As for the Franklin, if anyone's interested in it, make me an offer
(+shipping).  It's an Apple ][+ compatible w/dual built-in 5.25" disk
drives, 80-column and 40-column card, joystick, Amdek 13" color composite
monitor, Original system disks, AppleWorks, and all the manuals.  The
computer works great, but it's just too big.  You can see what it looks
like at:

<http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/ace.htm>

It's not a very good picture, but it is the same unit that I have.  The
printer card, however has been switched in mine (I think), and was used
with a Star Gemini 10-X printer (until it died).  I'll also include the
printer cable (connects to Centronics -standard printer).  The version of
AppleWorks also takes care of the missing open and closed-apple keys.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  9 23:09:41 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Sep 9, 98 11:48:11 pm
Message-ID: <199809100409.WAA20685@calico.litterbox.com>

You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a VERY rare
perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch diagonal 
green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 

You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics (www.allelec.com)
or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going for
around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.

The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:11:07 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909210602.17515A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation is
> > behind this?
> 
> Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
> construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What do you
> think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

That's a reflief (I knew it was a joke but Bruce's description was good: a
strange mix of horror and shock).

I think Linus should sell out.  If Microsoft was stupid enough to think
they could reign in Linux after the source code has already been in more
hands than a stripper's breasts then more power to him.  This is why I
knew the TeX story was bogus.  There's no way they could possibly hope to
make fifty cents off of TeX because a thousand screaming programmers
world-wide would just make a compatible version, call it SeX, and crush
Microsoft's silly aspriations of TeX domination.

Also, that quote of the Chinese restaurant owner at the end was a dead
give away. :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:17:13 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> Don't worry Sam, this is one item that won't find it's way up to 
> EBay.  I'm already in the process of going through it and looking at 
> installing it in my Apple ///.  And yes, I have a shrink-wrap gun so if 
> I wanted to make millions on EBay I can alway re-wrap it. :-)  It 
> was just a small part of me didn't want to break the virgin seal.

I know exactly how you feel.  There's something special about a piece of
computer equipment that's stayed in its original, pristine state for 15
years.  I'm the same way, as are many other people for some strange
psychological reason.  But if I really want to use it, there's no sense in
depriving myself of it just because its in such a state. 

> SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
> and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
> emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
> own.

The Softcard came with additional RAM, so yes, they were probably
referring to the fact that you could access that extra bank of memory from
DOS 3.3 in Apple // emulation mode.

Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS. 
While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 
 
Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep  9 23:22:13 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:32 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 9, 98 09:17:13 pm
Message-ID: <199809100422.WAA20824@calico.litterbox.com>

> Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
> before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS. 
> While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
> out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 
>  

but then they'd have had to develop an original OS instead of buying a 
CPM ripoff and messing it up.  Oops. :)

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep  9 23:29:41 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <199809100354.XAA22740@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211735.17515C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:

> I'm looking for an old Apple // (?) - The small portable type.  I'm looking

You're looking for the Apple //c.

> for the older model with the 5.25" built-in disk drive (external p/s).  I'm

The newer model with the internal P/S and 3.5" drive (and 3.3Mhz 65C02) is
the Apple //c+.

> looking for the type with the LCD display.  If you have one without one,

Good luck.  The LCD display was an external add-on that you could either
buy from Apple or third-parties that manufactered them.  They're still in
high demand believe it or not because Japanese LOVE Apple ]['s, still put
them to regular use, and pay premiums for the LCD display for the //c
(I've seen them go for $300 and up).  One lucky bastard on this list found
one at his local thrift shop for $4.98 (you know who you are!)  I haven't
seen one go for less than $250 on the online auctions, and that's when
they come up, which is not very often.

> let me know anyway.  I don't want to pay all that much for one (w/o LCD),
> because they're fairly common (my school probably has about 20 on each
> floor, but they don't want to get rid of any of them).

You can find these (at least around here) occasionally in thrift shops and
at flea markets (I just saw one last Sunday complete with external disk
drive and the tiny 8" monitor in excellent condition).  They're not too
difficult to find.  If you want a good deal, shop the usenet newsgroup
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  In fact I just went over there and found
several people selling //c's (including one of the list members here) and
will be forwarding them to you.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 01:15:06 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>



  sleeeping.....sleeeping... sleeping in a Jar 
       (the Jar is under the bed)

  [sorry...  had a Zappa flashback just then. Please disregard.]

  Ahem.  

  Encouraged by the success of my more recent uVAX resurrection, I 
this evening powered up another one I have had for some time. It 
doesn't do much. So I have some questions re: uVAX autism.

  First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on 
the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and 
the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have 
been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

  The VMS manual that I have (Thank you Bruce L. !!) seems to 
correspond with the sofware as extant on GoodMachine.

  DeadMachine is configured (externally) just the same as GM, ie. 
all the switches and controls are at the same settings. I am using a 
Decwriter III as the console, to have hardcopy.

  Upon power-up, the LED display on the back shows 'A'. The fixed 
disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 
Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
have let it go for 10 minutes....  

  I have checked the power supply voltages.. all nominal. I have 
power-cycled the unit a few times..  same behavior. I have re-seated 
the CPU and MEM cards..  no change.

  In the absense of the System User Guides / Operating Manual / 
Processor Handbooks..  I am stuck here. I remember a thread on the 
disk drive's spin up/down routine, but I forgot the cause.

  I will gladly pay for some more docs for these machines..  any 
spare MicroVax Orange Notebooks out there??

  Thanks in advance for any Info...


  Cheers

John


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep 10 04:49:41 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809100732.JAA09890@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> I just picked up an Apple SoftCard /// still shrinkwrapped.  I almost 
> hate to open it up but I want to use it in my Apple /// since I collect 
> to learn and use instead of reselling.  I'm pretty sure this is the 
> original shrinkwrap looking it over and the stickers on it but it made 
> me wonder.

Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
(especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
Try to get a second one.

> Is there any way to really know if someone is selling 
> you something that is in the original wrap or something they just re-
> wraped?  Guess you just have to follow the old "buy be ware".

Yes, or at least there are some hints. First, the type
of platic film is changing constantly (but you need a bit
experiance, since not only the material is different over
time, also for example, at the same time, companies in
Europe liked different material than those in the US).
Second the aging is visible thru the consistence. While
the years it gets harder and harder. Even if you get the
same material as uses when original, it takes some years
to get the softener out. And third: In a lot of cases
there are stickers on top. If you rewarp the card you
loose them. And most visible, forth: if you juse it
there will be dust on the card and traces on the books.

I always try to keep original packt items as they are,
althru I have some early singleboarders (i.e. 6800),
where I have to fight myself every time I see them :)

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From franke at sbs.de  Thu Sep 10 04:54:36 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: robots?
Message-ID: <199809100737.JAA09235@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> Date:          Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:04:13 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Re: robots?

> > There's nothing better than mixing computers and Lego!
> 
> Nonsense!. A Fischertechnik robotics kit controlled by a calculator is 
> infinitely more fun :-) :-) :-)... And yes, I have done that.

So, what ? Isn't there a logo for your calculator ?
Just one more step of fun!

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From kyrrin at jps.net  Thu Sep 10 08:27:52 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.980910063153.kyrrin@jps.net>

On 10-Sep-98 Doug Yowza wrote:

>On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> This wreaks of a practical joke.  I only wonder what the motivation
>is
>> behind this?
>
>Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You
>can construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  What
>do you think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

        More than Micro$quat's ready to give, that's for bloody sure!

        Geez... I noticed the smiley, but I thought it was some bizarre
positive reaction to what would be horrible news. I will admit I was
taken in at first. After I got halfway through a reply laden with more
MS flames than I usually produce in a year, I started to consider the
possibility that it was somebody's idea of a joke.

        <g> Well, heck... given the shock value, and the apparent
writing quality, I would wager that it'll qualify for Urban Legend
status in due course.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 10-Sep-98 at 06:27:55, Pacific
Web -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 08:41:16 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>


<   First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on 
< the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and 
< the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have 
< been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

Similar save for VAXstation was the marketing thing for a workstation 
configuration and Microvax generally meant terminals for IO unless there 
was a /GPX or /SPX then it was a workstation.  Confused... so was 
marketing.

<   Upon power-up, the LED display on the back shows 'A'. The fixed 
< disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 

The RD53 has a problem, there is internally a rubber bumper and the head 
is stuck to it!  Common problem on the Micropolus 1325s.  The fix, open it 
HDA, unlatch the head lock and force the arm to move then apply power and 
close. recover data and dispose or if you nuts like me do surgery to 
remove the peice of gum that used to be rubber and button it up and use it 
a few more years.

< Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
< printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
< have let it go for 10 minutes....  

I think it's waiting for a terminal.

Allison




From gentry at zk3.dec.com  Thu Sep 10 09:07:02 1998
From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
Message-ID: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>

Recently, there was a flurry of messages regarding a license
found in the RT-11 V4 tar-ball on gatekeeper.dec.com.  The
license appeared to be one which conveyed rights for hobbyist
users of pdp-11 software from Mentec.

After consulting with Mentec and Bob Supnik (praised be he
for negotiating the deal), and after combing my archives for
a copy of the binary distribution of RT V5.3 (which I
provided to Bob Supnik for him to package up with the license),

I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
distribution kit available on:

ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z

I'm sure that there is work being done on obtaining distribution
copies of other license-covered software.  Watch this space for
further notices about software.

For the sake of good will between Mentec and hobbyists, please
DO NOT start making copies of RT or any other pdp-11 software
available from other locations without it first coming from
gatekeeper.  Also, please read and abide by the terms of the
license.

                                        Megan Gentry
                                        Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg@world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    |                                     |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   | 
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 10 09:26:44 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne
 t>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909185850.5586C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>

At 09:37 PM 9/9/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
>Note the smiley.  I liked it, though.  It's almost believable.  You can
>construct an entire alternate reality on this kind of stuff.  

I recently saw a web site with dozens of fake press releases like this
one about TeX.  Some were funny, many were not.  I forget where it was, 
and my bookmarks aren't telling.

>What do you think it would take for Linus to sell out? 

Sell out?  To me, the more interesting prospect is that there's no
reason to buy him out, or anyone else out.  For that matter, he may
have already sold out; see below.

I've been cultivating a pet theory lately regarding the assimilation 
of Linux by Microsoft.

I believe it would be possible to refine a layer of compatibility
into WinNT that would allow more and more Linux software to be
recompiled to run under WinNT as-is (or someday, even running the
executables directly.)

I like tossing this idea on the table at programmer lunches just 
to see the reactions it provokes.  Because of the freeware nature 
of Linux, as long as Microsoft abides by the rules of releasing
the *relevant* source code, they'd be free to assimilate as many
freeware tools as they like.  Today they'll ship you a service pack CD
for $9.95; tomorrow they might ship a $9.95 Linux compatibility CD,
or even give it away as a promotion.

The average Linux-head has a hypocritical hatred of Microsoft 
when considered in the light of their devotion to portable, 
run-everywhere source code.  Why shouldn't Linux freeware run 
under NT, too?

Of course, Linux is many different components.  The bulk of it, 
as Richard Stallman tries hard to remind us, is based on GNU tools.
Linus made the kernel, and hordes of programmers have refined
the drivers and many other parts.

For a while, there's been a project to make a Unix compatibility
layer for GNU tools, at <http://www.cygnus.com/misc/gnu-win32/>.
Steve Chamberlain <sac@transmeta.com> was the original author of 
this CygWin32 software.  Note the e-mail address - Transmeta, 
Silicon Valley's mystery company of the moment.  Oh, that's 
where Linus works now, too.  Speculation about Transmeta includes 
the development of graphics chips and emulator chips that mimic 
various CPUs and OSes.

When I present this possibility to Linux-heads, their first reaction is 
a fearful "But why would Microsoft want to do that?"  I respond, 
"To run all that great Linux application software," a double-whammy 
that underscores the lack of anything truly comparable to 
Microsoft Office in the Linux market.  To ask why Microsoft would
assimilate Linux forces one to consider which Linux apps are most
useful to anyone but the most nerdy.

Do we really need to reproduce the kernel?  WinNT already has a 
microkernel architecture that, in theory, allows different OSes
to be placed on top - that's how Win32, OS/2, POSIX and DOS/Win16
live there.  See <http://www.sysinternals.com/ntdll.htm> 
and other pages there for a nice discussion of this.  

Implement a layer of HAL that talks to Unix-style device drivers, add 
an X Window server to the top layers, expand the present POSIX support, 
enhance the GNU Win32 effort, make a more Unix-like shell, and presto,
Microsoft assimilates a great deal of Linux.  All the Linux programmers
are working for Microsoft, unless they explicitly do something to
prevent it.

Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already 
Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:
<http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2134010,00.ht
ml>

Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
<http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
and automagically start the right emulator.

- John



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 09:44:29 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909211132.17515B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>

On 9 Sep 98, at 21:17, Sam Ismail wrote:

> I know exactly how you feel.  There's something special about a piece of
> computer equipment that's stayed in its original, pristine state for 15
> years.  I'm the same way, as are many other people for some strange
> psychological reason.  But if I really want to use it, there's no sense in
> depriving myself of it just because its in such a state. 

Exactly.  And after I overcame the small urge to leave it wrapped, 
what do I find?  The disks and each of the manuals are individually 
wrapped as well!  Arg! Now I have to fight the urge again, though 
not as strong this time.

Everything was there, including the registration card from Microsoft 
and the warranty registration from Apple.  I'd love to fill those out 
and send them in. :-)

> Hint for you young-uns: Apple's DOS hit version 3.3 about 4 or 5 years
> before MS did.  After that, they wised-up and started over with ProDOS.
> While it had its failings, at least they had the balls to throw the old OS
> out and begin from scratch.  Something MS should have done with MS-DOS. 

They did try that, along with IBM.  It was called OS/2.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 10 09:49:05 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910104233.9784D-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> Exactly.  And after I overcame the small urge to leave it wrapped, 
> what do I find?  The disks and each of the manuals are individually 
> wrapped as well!  Arg! Now I have to fight the urge again, though 
> not as strong this time.

In general, it is not a good idea to leave stuff in its original wrappers
without any inspections. Often, the goodies inside will suffer from
degrading wrappings (yucky plastic, trapped moisture, etc.) and we never
know about it. Remember, the wrappings probably were designed to last
only a year or two. If you get something in the original wrapper, please
open it carefully and see whats inside! You just might save it!

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 09:53:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100732.JAA09890@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 9:50, Hans Franke wrote:

> Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
> (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
> Try to get a second one.

To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

> to get the softener out. And third: In a lot of cases
> there are stickers on top. If you rewarp the card you
> loose them. And most visible, forth: if you juse it
> there will be dust on the card and traces on the books.

Problem here is you may not know what stickers were there to 
begin with so you wouldn't know if they were missing.  And with the 
last one, you would have to remove the wrap to check for dust on 
the card or traces on the books.  If you don't break the wrap and 
open the box, you can't check for dust.

> I always try to keep original packt items as they are,
> althru I have some early singleboarders (i.e. 6800),
> where I have to fight myself every time I see them :)

I'd lose that fight.  I don't have anything with a 6800 on it and would 
love to play with one.  Those suckers would be in use right now if 
they were around my place.  I do try and keep the original packing 
materials around, ie. boxes and what not when I have them.



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 10:03:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910104233.9784D-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <199809101339.IAA03155@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101359.IAA03212@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 10:49, William Donzelli wrote:

> In general, it is not a good idea to leave stuff in its original wrappers
> without any inspections. Often, the goodies inside will suffer from
> degrading wrappings (yucky plastic, trapped moisture, etc.) and we never
> know about it. Remember, the wrappings probably were designed to last only
> a year or two. If you get something in the original wrapper, please open
> it carefully and see whats inside! You just might save it!

That's a good point.  In my case I was going to open it anyway and 
you'll be glad to know everything was there is in fantastic shape.  I 
didn't have time last night to do more than open it up and start 
looking through the manuals.  Hope to have time tonight to install it 
and fire it up.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 10 10:04:20 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101359.IAA03212@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910110212.9784F-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> That's a good point.  In my case I was going to open it anyway and 
> you'll be glad to know everything was there is in fantastic shape.  I 
> didn't have time last night to do more than open it up and start 
> looking through the manuals.  Hope to have time tonight to install it 
> and fire it up.

I have opened too many things (mostly radio, however) from their original
boxes, only to find plastic that has shrunk, nests of insects, and
corrosion. Maybe some of the thing would be pristine if they were opened
just a few years before.

I tend to open the wrappings up very carefully, with a razor, in such a
away that it does dot create a mess.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From gooi at oce.nl  Thu Sep 10 00:21:37 1998
From: gooi at oce.nl (Henk Gooijen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Help needed with PDP-11/35 and XXDP problem
Message-ID: <1B5E745673@fs-nw-itc3.oce.nl>

Hello readers.

I have two questions which are in a sense related.
I have a problem with my PDP-11/35 and withn XXDP+.

When I boot my 11/35 it reports RT11-SJ (S) V04.00E. This version
runs perfectly. When I try to boot RT11-FB V5.4 the VIRTUAL LED on
the console goes on and at that moment the system hangs.
I did check all the required jumper changes on the other CPU boards
but the memory management unit M7238 was already installed in the
system and the jumpers all seem to be correctly set.
Anyway, when I boot that RT11-FB version on my PDP-11/34 it runs
just fine. Needless to say that both are _real_ machines.
When that RT11 version is booted on the 11/35 the ADDRESS LEDs show
076602 and the DATA LEDs show 177620. The MMU occupies address range
777600-777676. Is this a coincidence ?

Last week I got the RL02 drives connected to the 11/35. I have a
pack with XXDP+ on it and I hoped to run the diagnostics for the
CPU and the MMU. When I have XXDP+ booted (that goes well) and enter
the command "R BKTGD1.BIC" the READY light and on the 11/35 the ADDR
and DATA LEDs blink a few seconds but then the system hangs.
ADDR LEDs show 001156, DATA shows 000767. On the console terminal is
the text "KT11-D EXERCISER DBKTG-D".

Does anybody have any clues on how to proceed?
How do I use XXDP, any manual anywhere ?

TIA,
Henk Gooijen
gooi@oce.nl



From thomas100 at home.com  Thu Sep 10 11:30:27 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne
Message-ID: <199809101628.IAA00848@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

Well, Microsoft has been in the Unix camp before, with Xenix and  
SCO.  [Witness my Trs-80 Mod 16 runs it].

But speculation aside, Apple is the one gobbling up both Unix and  
[Windows application functionality] into their new OS.  That's scary  
in a very comfortable way.  The old NeXT underpinnings with Linux  
innovation, etc. is turning out to be ultra-powerful!

Thomas


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 11:40:08 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>

Hi there. My name is Jason Simpson. I'm a 25 year old Seattle-based geek
that likes to scrounge around thrift stores looking for cool old
technology. I've been collecting this stuff since I was 16. I've owned some
of it since I was 13.

Here's a brief summary of some of the things I own:

Tandy Model 16 (dual 8" drives. I'd really like to run CP/M on this!)
Tandy Model 4P (with flakey and ENORMOUS 5 meg harddisk)
Tandy Model 100 (x2, one is broken)
Tandy Micro Color Computer MC-10 (x2)
Tandy Color Computer 3 (x3 or 4, at least one is broken, couple of disk
drives)
Tandy Pocket Computer (PC-1? broken/bad battery)
Tandy PC-3 pocket computer (plus printer)
Tandy PC-6 pocket computer
Texas Instruments TI-74 BasiCalc pocket computer
Casio FX-702P pocket computer (plus printer and cassette interface)
Hewlett Packard 75C (broken/bad battery)
DEC VT102 terminal
DEC VT220 terminal
Wyse 60 terminal
Commodore 128 (broken, and my fault at that -- blown SID)
Commodore 128D
Amiga 500 (broken)
Amiga 2000 (with harddisk)
Amiga 3000
Apple IIc (x2)
Apple IIgs (x2)
Laser 128 (Apple IIc clone)
Macintosh Plus
Outbound Systems notebook (portable '030 Mac clone w/ Plus ROMs, won't recharge)
Timex Sinclair 2068 (screwy but usuable video. For some reason, I find this one
especially captivating even though I have no software or peripherals for it)

There's more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

In general, last time I looked, these all work unless mentioned otherwise.
Of course, I'd like to fix or replace the broken items.

Some things I'd like to find:

Model 16 stuff:
        CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
        Harddisk **
        Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)

Color Computer stuff:
        OS/9 disks **
        RAM expansion
		Multicartridge adapter
        Accelerator

Commodore 64/128 stuff:
        REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
        Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)
        Accelerator
        Serial accelerator
        SuperSnapshot 5 cartridge **
        Harddisk

Apple II(gs) stuff:
        IIgs accelerator
        SCSI card **
		Apple IIc+ (I've only seen one of these once)

Amiga stuff:
        Amiga 1200 **
        Accelerator

** I really want these. :)

I also collect video game systems. Of these, some of the ones I'm most
interested in find more stuff for are: Atari 7800(/2600), Atari 5200, Sega
Master System, Commodore CD32, 3DO, NES.

I'm currently playing with the C= 128D. Dug out my old 1581 disk drive and
some disks. Whoo that's a fun machine, but I need a fastloader cartridge. :)

        -jrs

_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 12:03:07 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> I believe it would be possible to refine a layer of compatibility
> into WinNT that would allow more and more Linux software to be
> recompiled to run under WinNT as-is (or someday, even running the
> executables directly.)
> 
> I like tossing this idea on the table at programmer lunches just 
> to see the reactions it provokes.  Because of the freeware nature 
> of Linux, as long as Microsoft abides by the rules of releasing
> the *relevant* source code, they'd be free to assimilate as many
> freeware tools as they like.  Today they'll ship you a service pack CD
> for $9.95; tomorrow they might ship a $9.95 Linux compatibility CD,
> or even give it away as a promotion.

But why?  The whole point of using Linux instead of something like NT is
that it doesn't blow.

> The average Linux-head has a hypocritical hatred of Microsoft 
> when considered in the light of their devotion to portable, 
> run-everywhere source code.  Why shouldn't Linux freeware run 
> under NT, too?

Because it would probably crash all the time.

> "To run all that great Linux application software," a double-whammy 
> that underscores the lack of anything truly comparable to 
> Microsoft Office in the Linux market.  To ask why Microsoft would
> assimilate Linux forces one to consider which Linux apps are most
> useful to anyone but the most nerdy.

You obviously haven't perused the catalogs of Linux productivity software
lately, have you?

> Implement a layer of HAL that talks to Unix-style device drivers, add 
> an X Window server to the top layers, expand the present POSIX support, 
> enhance the GNU Win32 effort, make a more Unix-like shell, and presto,
> Microsoft assimilates a great deal of Linux.  All the Linux programmers
> are working for Microsoft, unless they explicitly do something to
> prevent it.

If this happens then great!  It might make NT worthy of the term
"Operating System".  But the fact is you'd have NT masquerading as Linux,
and if you're going to go through all the trouble of paying a bundle of
money for a half-assed Linux, what's the point?  Just buy a $39.95 CD
distribution of Linux and get ALL the power of Linux.

> Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already 
> Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:

I think what ever scheme they're concocting will ultimately fail, or in
the very least, it won't affect the rising tide of Linux.  It's just too
late.  This is no browser war.

> Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

A much more productive end goal.  Port the software over to the good OS,
not the other way around.

> As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
> WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
> to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
> and automagically start the right emulator.

I think the better solution is to have someone write such an interface in
Linux (someone probably already has) but your feeble attempt to make this
seem topical has failed :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 12:07:52 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910100548.28840C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 10 Sep 98, at 9:50, Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
> > (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
> > Try to get a second one.

Who stole your Apple ///?  And under what circumstances??

> To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
> leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
> would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
> to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
> That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
> what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
> something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
the pawn shop :)


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gene at ehrich.com  Thu Sep 10 12:25:20 1998
From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <199809101718.KAA27674@mxu1.u.washington.edu>

>I also collect video game systems. Of these, some of the ones I'm most
>interested in find more stuff for are: Atari 7800(/2600), Atari 5200, Sega
>Master System, Commodore CD32, 3DO, NES.
>

  Jason, I do have some items on my web site that might meet your needs.
  Particularly the NES items but lots more there also.

  Gene

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
gene@ehrich.com
Gene Ehrich   P.O. Box 209   Marlton NJ   08053-0209
------------------------------------------------------ 


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Sep 10 12:31:39 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com>

Jason Simpson wrote:

> Some things I'd like to find:
> 
> Model 16 stuff:
>         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **

Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.

>         Harddisk **

You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.

>         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)

The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines -- 
it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
TRS-DOS.

> Color Computer stuff:
>         OS/9 disks **
>         RAM expansion
>                 Multicartridge adapter
>         Accelerator

Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
disassembly required.

In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I 
found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
much).

What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
<http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Sep 10 12:46:12 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <35F81064.96B6A81F@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> > Think I can sell the idea to Uncle Bill, or do you think he's already
> > Microserfs working on it?  And perhaps even Ballmer is thinking about it:
> 
> I think what ever scheme they're concocting will ultimately fail, or in
> the very least, it won't affect the rising tide of Linux.  It's just too
> late.  This is no browser war.
> 
> > Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> > <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.
> 
> A much more productive end goal.  Port the software over to the good OS,
> not the other way around.
> 
> > As for the ten-year-rule, I think the assimilation of Linux into
> > WinNT will be good for emulators in general, making it possible
> > to download old Apple II executables and double-click on them
> > and automagically start the right emulator.
> 
> I think the better solution is to have someone write such an interface in
> Linux (someone probably already has) but your feeble attempt to make this
> seem topical has failed :)

Indeed.  All of the emulators that run under MS-DOS seem to run just
peachy using dosemu (though my dosemu boots DR-DOS, not MS-DOS), and
the couple of emulators that run under Windows that I've tried did
just fine under Caldera's WABI.  I haven't tried Freedows, and so
far my luck with Wine has been sketchy.  I haven't tried making the
emulators run by clicking on a filename, in large part due to the
confusion caused by similar extensions to filenames for executables
for different OSs and processors, and in medium part because I'm not
a graphically oriented user.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 13:21:40 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com> <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>

Thanks for the reply. Sure helps me narrow my search a bit.

That Tandy 6000HD mentioned a day or two ago on the list sounds mighty interesting!

	-jrs


Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> 
> Jason Simpson wrote:
> 
> > Some things I'd like to find:
> >
> > Model 16 stuff:
> >         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
> 
> Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.
> 
> >         Harddisk **
> 
> You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
> the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
> adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.
> 
> >         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)
> 
> The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
> mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines --
> it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
> there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
> TRS-DOS.
> 
> > Color Computer stuff:
> >         OS/9 disks **
> >         RAM expansion
> >                 Multicartridge adapter
> >         Accelerator
> 
> Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
> newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
> thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
> chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
> inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
> disassembly required.
> 
> In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
> expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
> might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
> but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
> Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
> Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I
> found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
> this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
> much).
> 
> What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
> is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
> haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
> a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
> good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
> <http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
> Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
> --
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 13:49:02 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910100548.28840C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809101349.IAA03174@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 10:07, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
> computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
> the pawn shop :)

Ha! Fooled those thieves, I don't even have an Altair. :-)
But I wish I did. *sob*

Actually, I'd like to find any S-100 systems.  The only one I've 
picked up so far is my North Star Horizon.  I was thinking of 
building my own S-100 expansion for my Exidy Sorcerer though, I 
think I just about have everything I need to attempt it.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 14:18:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> Actually, I'd like to find any S-100 systems.  The only one I've 
> picked up so far is my North Star Horizon.  I was thinking of 
> building my own S-100 expansion for my Exidy Sorcerer though, I 
> think I just about have everything I need to attempt it.

You needn't worry about looking any further.  The Horizon is a classic in
its own right, and a right solid S-100 machine at that.  Just ask Allison,
the staunchest N* supporter on the planet.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 14:27:09 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com>

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From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 14:32:08 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980909185917.16465C-100000@shell1.interlog.com> from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Sep 9, 98 07:01:53 pm
Message-ID: <199809101932.MAA10122@loomcom.com>

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From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 14:49:59 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lego robots (was Re: "Allow myself to introduce... myself.")
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19> <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com> <35F80CFB.D96FE035@cnct.com> <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>
Message-ID: <35F82CF8.F24FD5C@xio.com>

Whoops! I apologize for the accidental public message and extra quoting in my
response to Ward Griffiths.

But anyway, since I've already started this message, let me point those of you
interested in robotics to http://www.legomindstorms.com/ in case you hadn't
seen it already. It's a Lego kit that comes with a microcontroller, infra-red
link, and CD-ROM with programming software for around $200. I want.

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 14:54:49 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809101744.MAA03696@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809101850.NAA03763@trailingedge.com>



On 10 Sep 98, at 12:18, Sam Ismail wrote:

> You needn't worry about looking any further.  The Horizon is a classic in
> its own right, and a right solid S-100 machine at that.  Just ask Allison,
> the staunchest N* supporter on the planet.

And I would agree with her.  I really like the N* even though I 
haven't had much time to play with it yet.  And all for only $4 from a 
thrift who said it was just a big disk drive unit.  N*DOS doesn't sit 
to well with me though.  Never cared much for a continuous block 
OS. That was the one thing I didn't care for on my UCSD p-system. 
 But I also have CP/M for the N* and that's fine.

Still, I'd like some other S-100 systems, such as a Cromemco.  
Sure, I'd take an Altair or IMSAI if I could get one for less than 
EBay but I'm more interested in other S-100s.  A SOL would be 
good too.  Got to get that box together for my Socerer.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 10 14:56:10 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <19980910195611.21546.qmail@hotmail.com>

Why was the LCD so rare, anyway?
It seems that with a battery, this could be a real laptop.
How much did the LCD cost then?


>
>You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a 
VERY rare
>perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch 
diagonal 
>green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 
>
>You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics 
(www.allelec.com)
>or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going 
for
>around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.
>
>The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
>less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
>-- 
>Jim Strickland
>jim@calico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 15:24:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
In-Reply-To: <19980910195611.21546.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910132318.13768A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> Why was the LCD so rare, anyway?

Not many were produced as demand was low due to high price.

> It seems that with a battery, this could be a real laptop.

That was the intent.  Optional external batteries were available in its
day to make it fully portable.

> How much did the LCD cost then?

$A lot.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From djenner at halcyon.com  Thu Sep 10 15:26:16 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910095010.28840A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <35F81064.96B6A81F@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <35F835E8.2AFEA5A3@halcyon.com>



From pgrammen at sonic.net  Thu Sep 10 16:11:04 1998
From: pgrammen at sonic.net (Paul Grammens)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980910141104.0085b100@pop.sonic.net>

At 12:27 PM 9/10/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hi folks,
>
>I'm having some problems with a floppy drive in a newly aquired Apple
>Lisa, and I'm hoping someone here will have some repair tips.
>When I first powered up the system, the floppy drive seemed to be
>working fine.  I booted the system into MacWorks+ off of one of the
>ProFile drives, and was able to format, read, and write floppies with
>no problems.  However, a few hours later, the floppy drive started
>making horrible "CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK ..." noises, resulting in
>a wave of panic and fear :)
>
>I investigated, taking off the front cover of the Lisa to get a closer
>look at what was going on.  It appears that the head assembly, which
>is moved back and forth by a spiral cam shaft, was all the way in the
>back-most position -- but for some reason, the drive didn't know it
>was all they way back, and the cam shaft kept turning, trying to push
>the head assembly back further.  The "CLICK CLICK CLICK" was coming
>from the spiral cam shaft clicking the little driver arm on the head
>assembly as it spun around.
>

Hard to say for sure, but there is a sensor on the right side (viewed from
the front) that detects when the head gets to the end of its travel. Could
it be dirty? I think it uses LEDs and photo sensor to detect a plastic
piece passing between the emitter and sensor. I've seen behavior such as
you describe when solvent gets on the sensor. The most common problem with
this drive (assuming it is the same 400K drive used with the 128K and 500K
Macs) is that the grease turns to glue with age, gumming the eject
mechanism. Sounds like that is OK. Was it cleaned recently? If so, it may
just be solvent in the area of that sensor. I thought I'd ruined a couple
of drives in cleaning them, but after sitting for a while they stopped that
"click click click" you mentioned. If it is the same drive as the Mac
drives, you should be able to pick up a replacement for a dollar or two,
worst case. Good luck with it!
-Paul





From jhfine at idirect.com  Thu Sep 10 16:12:07 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <35F840A6.9F59DABC@idirect.com>

>Megan Gentry wrote:

> After consulting with Mentec and Bob Supnik (praised be he
> for negotiating the deal), and after combing my archives for
> a copy of the binary distribution of RT V5.3 (which I
> provided to Bob Supnik for him to package up with the license),

Jerome Fine replies:

Bravo!  Considering how fast other things have happened in the
past, you seem to have accomplished the job in record time.

> I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
> by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
> distribution kit available on:
>
> ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z
>
> I'm sure that there is work being done on obtaining distribution
> copies of other license-covered software.  Watch this space for
> further notices about software.
>
> For the sake of good will between Mentec and hobbyists, please
> DO NOT start making copies of RT or any other pdp-11 software
> available from other locations without it first coming from
> gatekeeper.  Also, please read and abide by the terms of the
> license.

Are there any things you would recommend that this groups would
want to be aware of?  Any Y2K issues that you feel are important?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict
Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications
(Sources not always required)



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 12:56:32 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft buys TeX :-)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980909210602.17515A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 9, 98 09:11:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHAxP-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 12:49:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809100113.SAA27182@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 9, 98 06:13:19 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHAqR-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Sep 10 16:58:27 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <35F835E8.2AFEA5A3@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980910164757.22153E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, David C. Jenner wrote:

> From the start, NT has had a POSIX layer meant to allow POSIX-compliant
> software to run under NT.  There has been a product, OpenNT, that
> refines this layer and adds utilities, an SDK, and X Window capabilities
> (clients and server) to NT.  You can telnet into an NT system and run
> command-line applications.  Any GNU-based application that conforms to
> POSIX can be ported.  The product is now called INTERIX.  See:
> http://www.interix.com

And from the guys that orignally wrote the POSIX layer for Microsoft,
there's a product call NuTCracker that does the same thing:
	http://www.datafocus.com/

This is not something you would want to use unless you had to.  There are
several UNIX things that don't map well to the NT microkernel, including
fork/exec, signals, and the nice UNIX unified I/O model.  Basically, NT is
a dog, and UNIX on top of NT is a mangey mutt. 

-- Doug



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 17:25:46 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Microsoft assimilates Linux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980910092644.00d13140@pc>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980909213342.4717P-100000@behemoth.host4u.ne t>
Message-ID: <199809102121.QAA04087@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 9:26, John Foust wrote:

> Freedows is an interesting effort to run Windows apps under Linux:
> <http://www.freedows.org/english/high/index.html>.

Freedows isn't trying to run Windows apps under Linux.  They are 
building a whole new OS with the idea of being able to run apps 
from several different operating systems at the same time.  The 
last plan I heard from them was to start with an OS that could run 
Windows and DOS apps and then add Linux and Mac apps in the 
next release.  Keeping this on-topic, they also plan to handle apps 
from classic systems naming the C64 and Coco as planned 
systems.  This is something I've wanted since working on IBM 
mainframes in the late 70s.  I've wanted a VM style setup where I 
could run different OSs on "virtual machines" on the same box.  
Over the years that's evolved into an OS which would just be able 
to handle seamless apps from several different systems.  Ok, I can 
dream.  Freedows, if they can pull it off, might actually do just that. 
I'd like to work on some application kernels (as they call them) for 
some of my classic systems.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 17:22:28 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
References: <199809100018.TAA02505@trailingedge.com> <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <19980910222228.12478.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com> wrote:
> SOS and CP/M I see but DOS?  Yes I know it's Apple DOS 3.3 
> and not MS-DOS; I guess they are refering to the Apple // 
> emulation mode as I don't think the /// could handle DOS on its 
> own.

The Apple /// dealer diagnostic disk contains a version of Apple DOS 3.3
modified to boot directly (w/o emulation mode) on an Apple ///.  I've
been meaning to study the changes sometime, but haven't gotten around to
it.

Aside from the boot sequence, the only changes that would be absolutely
required would be some code to load the character generator.

Eric



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Sep 10 17:46:13 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Paul Grammens wrote:
If it is the same drive as the Mac
drives, you should be able to pick up a replacement for a dollar or two,
worst case.
--- end of quote ---

As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, whereas the Mac version does not.

-- MB


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Sep 10 17:55:07 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Tony Duell wrote:
What you need is a cable with the tips of the plugs connected to pins 5 
and 3 (and the sleeves to pin 2). That's actually a very common audio 
cable - I would think RatShack would have one.
--- end of quote ---

They didn't, so I made one to match your description here. It checks out fine with the multimeter, but I still get video with no audio. Leads me to believe there's a problem with the VIC itself.

Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the C64 for as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the video cable (the one that splits into three RCA's, one for video and two for sound) with the video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice, sharp, black and white display, no color. If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get (cruddy) color. I've checked every setting I can find on the TV for color/B&W stuff, but everything looks right. ???

Thanks again for the help.

-- MB


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Sep 10 18:48:14 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
 <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980910184814.591f9a48@intellistar.net>

Jason,

  Let me know if you get the 6000HD.  I have two of them.

  Joe


At 11:21 AM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for the reply. Sure helps me narrow my search a bit.
>
>That Tandy 6000HD mentioned a day or two ago on the list sounds mighty
interesting!
>
>	-jrs
>
>
>Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
>> 
>> Jason Simpson wrote:
>> 
>> > Some things I'd like to find:
>> >
>> > Model 16 stuff:
>> >         CP/M (CP/M-68k?) on 8" disks **
>> 
>> Reports are that you can still get CP/M from Trisoft in Texas.
>> 
>> >         Harddisk **
>> 
>> You'll most likely find it as part of a package with another member of
>> the family -- better hope so, because if they were separated, the
>> adapter card will have stayed with the CPU.
>> 
>> >         Network card (did it do Ethernet, or only Arcnet?)
>> 
>> The only network card ever available was Arcnet, which only ran in Z-80
>> mode and was only compatible with other Model 2/12/16/6000 machines --
>> it won't talk to a network with PeeCees, even Tandy's ViaNet.  And
>> there were some compatibility problems with the Arcnet version of
>> TRS-DOS.
>> 
>> > Color Computer stuff:
>> >         OS/9 disks **
>> >         RAM expansion
>> >                 Multicartridge adapter
>> >         Accelerator
>> 
>> Best bet there is to keep an eye on comp.sys.tandy and comp.os.os9
>> newsgroups.  The MultiPak interface shows up now and again in the
>> thrift shops, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 1/2 is standard
>> chips, RAM expansion for the Color Computer 3 is generally found
>> inside a Color Computer 3 and can be hard to spot without some
>> disassembly required.
>> 
>> In fact, without OS-9 Level II, there is no way to detect memory
>> expansion in a Color Computer 3 easily -- well, I suppose there
>> might be a short machine-language program that could be poked in,
>> but I wouldn't know the details -- I drifted away from the Color
>> Computer line for a few years starting right about when the Color
>> Computer 3 was released, and I acquired OS-9 Level II before I
>> found my three expanded CoCo 3's at the Trenton Computer Festival
>> this past spring (and I still haven't had time to play with them
>> much).
>> 
>> What precisely do you mean by "Accelerator"?  I've heard that there
>> is a way to replace the CoCo 3 CPU with a ?Hitachi? chip, but I
>> haven't been tracking the details.  Somewhere around here I've got
>> a copy of some FAQ or other that might mention it.  (There's a
>> good set of links for most of the TRS-80 line by Irs Goldklang at
>> <http://www.trs-80.com/> -- Model 1/3/4, 2/12/16/6000, 100/200, and
>> Color Computer -- the MS-DOS stuff is ignored).
>> --
>> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
>> 
>> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
>> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon
>



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 18:08:22 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <19980910222228.12478.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
Message-ID: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 22:22, Eric Smith wrote:

> The Apple /// dealer diagnostic disk contains a version of Apple DOS 3.3
> modified to boot directly (w/o emulation mode) on an Apple ///.  I've been
> meaning to study the changes sometime, but haven't gotten around to it.
> 
> Aside from the boot sequence, the only changes that would be absolutely
> required would be some code to load the character generator.

Hmm, that would be interesting.  I'll have to look for one of those.  
I've seen patches for DOS 3.3 to work with 3.5" floppies on a // but 
haven't seen anything for it on a /// before now.  If you ever get 
around to checking out the changes tell us about it.  I once hacked 
an Apple // OS called Apex which was only out on 13 sector format 
at the time to work with the 16 sector format when it came out.  
That was fun.



-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 17:10:25 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: WTB: Apple // (I think)
Message-ID: <199809102306.TAA24647@gate.usaor.net>

If no one has the LCD, I have a color/mono (switchable) Magnavox
Professional CGA/composite (switchable) monitor with built-in sound that I
can use.  Does anyone have the pinouts for the LCD?  I have an old CGA LCD
that I may be able to use to make my own (maybe).

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: Apple // (I think)
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 12:09 AM
> 
> You're looking for an apple IIc.  Unfortunately the LCD screen is a VERY
rare
> perepheral commanding a multi-hundred dollar price.  The 9 inch diagonal 
> green monochrome screen isn't MUCH bigger and is far more common. 
> 
> You can get them refurbished (I think) from alltech electronics
(www.allelec.com)
> or go to comp.sys.apple2.marketplace - I think the basic 2c is going for
> around US$22 for the machine and the power supply.
> 
> The 9 inch monitor goes for $49US from Alltech - refurbished.  Probably
> less on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.  
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 18:08:38 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <199809102315.TAA26385@gate.usaor.net>

Try taking the output of the VIC through the inputs of a VCR.  I'm not sure
about this, but if I remember the monitor that was with my C64, there were
two audio, and two video jacks, or a special cable that would combine
everything into one plug.  There was also another cable that would allow
the computer to connect to a TV (had a converter and Audio/Video in one RCA
jack, like a Nintendo).  However, I no longer have the computer, so I can't
be sure, but I do remember the four RCA jacks and the single multi-plug on
the back of the monitor.  There was also a switch to change from 60-75Hz (I
think).  The monitor would NOT work with a standard composite computer,
such as an apple.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Marion Bates <Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: VIC-20 -- no sound
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 6:55 PM
>
> They didn't, so I made one to match your description here. It checks out
fine with the multimeter, but I still get video with no audio. Leads me to
believe there's a problem with the VIC itself.
> 
> Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the C64 for
as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the video cable (the
one that splits into three RCA's, one for video and two for sound) with the
video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice, sharp, black and white display, no
color. If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get
(cruddy) color. I've checked every setting I can find on the TV for
color/B&W stuff, but everything looks right. ???
> 
> Thanks again for the help.
> 
> -- MB


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 18:09:27 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> (Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU)
References: <8336624@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <19980910230927.12703.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
> As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down =
> to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's =
> auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, =
> whereas the Mac version does not.

No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Eric


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 17:01:08 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199809101927.MAA10104@loomcom.com> from "sethm@loomcom.com" at Sep 10, 98 12:27:09 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHEm8-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 16:41:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F81848.19252518@xio.com> from "Jason Simpson" at Sep 10, 98 11:21:40 am
Message-ID: <m0zHESr-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 16:47:17 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:33 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 10, 98 12:18:22 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHEYi-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 18:55:06 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809102355.RAA27406@calico.litterbox.com>

The 64 monitor I had had a 3 wire cable with signals for chroma, luma, and
audio.  I *think* the composite cable bound chroma and luma together, or 
used a seperate composite pin.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 18:38:06 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHGHy-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From marvin at rain.org  Thu Sep 10 19:11:11 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Hungarian/Russian Computers
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902044639.197E-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35F86A9F.1F528AD2@rain.org>

I had a great time while I was over in Austria and Hungary.  The only
computer I saw over there was a Phillips (didn't recognize it) that looked
similar to the C-64.  However, at the ARDF Championships, I met a number of
electronics people knew what it was I wanted.  One person from Russia (who
just happened to win 3 gold medals at the competition) indicated he might be
able to find some older Russian systems.  Another (who designed and built
his own equipment, and also was a past gold medal winner) told me about some
Hungarian S-100 systems that might be available.  The language barrier was
something I hadn't really anticipated, but I know now for the next time I
travel overseas!


From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Sep 10 19:12:42 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
References: <199809100217.VAA02634@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com) <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <19980911001242.12888.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"David Williams" <dlw@trailingedge.com> wrote:
> I once hacked 
> an Apple // OS called Apex which was only out on 13 sector format 
> at the time to work with the 16 sector format when it came out.  
> That was fun.

Wow, it's pretty rare to find anyone who remembers Apex, since it wasn't
ever all that popular.  It was distributed by Apparat, and they were more
famous for NewDOS/80 for the TRS-80 Model I and Model III.

The 16-sector hack should have been quite easy, since the source code of the
disk driver was printed in the Apex manual.  I don't recall if it was provided
on disk.  Apex used Apple's RWTS routines sans some of the formatting code, in
order to free up the page between $bf00 and $bfff for other uses.  If you'd
gotten in touch with us, we would have sent you a 16-sector update.

Apex was written mainly by members of the "6502 Group", which has met on the
Colorado School of Mines campus in Golden every Tuesday* since it formed in
1976.  These days the discussion topics rarely involve 6502s, but the
name has stuck for historical reasons.  At its peak around 1981, a typical
meeting had perhaps 80 attendees, but these days it tends to be fewer than a
dozen.  I no longer live in Colorado, but whenever I go back to visit family
and friends I try to attend a meeting.

Apex evolved from earlier operating systems called FFS (Floppy File System)
and TFS (Tape File System), which were never widely distributed.  The
command interpreter and most of the utilities were written in a language
called XPL0, conceptually similar to the way that parts of CP/M were
written in PL/M.

The main people behind Apex and XPL0 were Peter Boyle, Wayne Wall, Larry Fish,
and Loren Blaney.  I'm sure I've omitted other contributors; my apologies to
them.

The XPL0 language has been ported to other processors including the x86:
	http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/computers/xpl0/

Apex was ported to the 68K, and ran on some models of Macintoshes.  It was
used by DFM for telescope controllers:
	http://www2.csn.net/~dfm42/dfm.html

Apparat's EPROM programmer for the Apple ][ was originally supplied with
APEX-based software written by Larry Fish (who also designed the hardware),
using special routines by Roger Nace to read and write Apple DOS 3.3 disks.
Because this was somewhat inconvenient for most of our customers, I wrote
entirely new software for it that ran directly under DOS 3.3.

Cheers,
Eric

* Actually we missed a few due to weather and holidays.  But almost every
  Tuesday.



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 19:53:23 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: new addition(s)
Message-ID: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com>

ive found the best way to find old machines is to let as many people know as
possible. a coworker knew i collected old machines and he gave me a very clean
rom3 apple //gs that works great along with a matching monochrome monitor in
its box. also got a clean //c and also got 3 C64s with 3 disk drives along
with the little matching dot matrix printer and all the power supplies. anyone
interested in the C64s? ive also got to pick up a sanyo mbc1000 cpm machine
which ive never heard of, and i also have a lead on some dec equipment. all i
know is it's some terminals, cables and tapes. i've requested a detailed list
of what's available. if there's anything i dont want i'll be sure to let the
subscribers to this list have first craic.

david


From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 20:05:42 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <199809110105.AA28475@world.std.com>

Jerome Fine replies:

>Bravo!  Considering how fast other things have happened in the
>past, you seem to have accomplished the job in record time.

Thanks, but I didn't do much... just produced a V5.3 binary
distribution kit... the *real* work was by Bob Supnik, who
negotiated the license with Mentec...

>Are there any things you would recommend that this groups would
>want to be aware of?  Any Y2K issues that you feel are important?

Firstly, I want to let people know that the kit put up on gatekeeper
was slightly flawed (in that it took up MUCH more space than it
needed to).  A new copy of the *same* distribution will be available
in the near future (taking up only about 900kb instead of 3.5mb)
from gatekeeper... all the proper bits are there... nothing will
be missing, don't worry.

Now, as to Y2K... I doubt that V5.3 even had the support for the
extended dates (above 2003), so there was NO y2k work done at all
on V5.3.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:14 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>

>Commodore 64/128 stuff:
>        REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
>        Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)

I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.  I
know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had mine
<sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were selectable
by a rotary switch, and available via the OCCUG (Oregon Commodore Computer
Users Group).  Of course this was back in '81 or '82 and it was a kit, they
also had a kit to upgrade the 8k card to 16k, and you could switch between
the two sizes with dip switches.

As for the SCSI adapter for the Apple ]['s, I was able to get one for about
$40 from a company in Vancover.  They do mail-order and advertise in the
Apple newsgroups.

You might be able to get a SID from http://www.paxtron.com they do Amiga
and Commodore stuff, though I prefer http://www.softhut.com for my Amiga
stuff.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From sethm at loomcom.com  Thu Sep 10 20:25:20 1998
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sethm@loomcom.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Making and using PDP-11 disk images
Message-ID: <199809110125.SAA11810@loomcom.com>

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From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:49:54 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809092228.A18605-0100000@netcom19>
Message-ID: <v04011701b21e3f1db1fa@[192.168.1.2]>

>  First off..  am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on
>the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC'  and
>the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'...  all this time I have
>been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'.  Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial?

VAXstation II = 8 slot backplane
VAXstation II/RC = 8 slot backplane with 3 slots filled in with Rosen = DEC
marketing ploy at a "Reduced Cost" system

I've heard that a cheap way to get a VAXstation II was to buy the II/RC,
and then replace the backplane with a normal fully functional 8 slot one.

If it's got a video card it's a VAXstation, if it doesn't it's a MicroVAX.
Basically irrelevant.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 20:55:10 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com>

I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
require a tv?

david


From roblwill at usaor.net  Thu Sep 10 20:53:46 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <199809110200.WAA00350@gate.usaor.net>



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep 10 21:18:12 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980911121812.007e88c0@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 21:55 10/09/98 EDT, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:
>I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
>composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
>speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
>require a tv?

If you're plugging the composite monitor into the RCA plug on the back of
the C64 you're not going to have much luck.  That's the RF output.  The
composite video is, if I remember correctly, on pin 4 of the AV DIN socket.

The C64 does not have an internal speaker.  Sound is modulated on the RF if
you connect it to a TV, otherwise it's present on pin 3 of the AV DIN
connector.  Either way, ^G does *not* give you a beep on a C64.  To get
sound out of it you need to resort to POKEing (I can't remember exactly
where you need to POKE, but I'm sure someone else on the list can).

Regards,

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 21:19:23 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 10, 98 09:55:10 pm
Message-ID: <199809110219.UAA28330@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, the 64 has a built in RF modulator tied to the single RCA jack in the 
back.  The composite outputs are on a DIN port and require a special cable.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:44 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <m0zHEYi-000IyNC@p850ug1>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910121725.9727E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 10, 98 12:18:22 pm
Message-ID: <199809110124.UAA04497@trailingedge.com>

On 10 Sep 98, at 22:47, Tony Duell wrote:

> There was an official S100 expansion for the Sorcerer. I have one, and I
> also have the technical manual (= schematics) for it. Let me know if this
> info would be of use to you. No I am not going to sell the unit...

Yes, that info would be a GREAT help.  I knew that the unit existed 
but so far I've been unable to locate one, other than some that are 
in the hands of other collectors.  Since I have some S-100 card 
cages and back planes I thought I'd look into putting my own 
together.  Any info on the real one would be much appreciated.  
They also had a combo monitor/disk drive unit I've always been on 
the look out for but so far haven't located either.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 21:28:21 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809101958.A17939-0100000@netcom18>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> 
> < disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. 
> 
> The RD53 has a problem, there is internally a rubber bumper and the head 
> is stuck to it!  Common problem on the Micropolus 1325s.  The fix, open it 

 Ah yes..  thanks for the memory nudge. I'll wait for the weekend 
when I can get into my shp, and do the surgery there.

> 
> < Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
> < printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
> < have let it go for 10 minutes....  
> 
> I think it's waiting for a terminal.


  Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...   
maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it 
wating for something on the ethernet port? 

> > Allison
> 
> 
  Thanks so much for your help.... hopefully this machine will be 
more than just a supply of parts for the other one....


Cheers

John
 


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Thu Sep 10 21:48:39 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <19980911001242.12888.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <199809102204.RAA04247@trailingedge.com> (dlw@trailingedge.com)
Message-ID: <199809110144.UAA04522@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 0:12, Eric Smith wrote:

> Wow, it's pretty rare to find anyone who remembers Apex, since it wasn't
> ever all that popular.  It was distributed by Apparat, and they were more
> famous for NewDOS/80 for the TRS-80 Model I and Model III.

That's the one.  Still have it and the manuals too.  I've always had 
an interest in different operating systems and played with 
NewDOS/80 on a Model I as well.  They had ads for Apex and 
XPL0 and Focal IIRC which I always wanted but was a poor college 
student at the time.  Finally picked up the Apex and XPL0 at a 
discount during some going out of business sale.  Didn't have the 
Focal so I never got it.  Besides OSs I really enjoy playing with 
different languages too.

BTW, I also have a copy of another OS for the Apple // called 
CP/A.  How many here have see that one?

> The 16-sector hack should have been quite easy, since the source code of
> the disk driver was printed in the Apex manual.  I don't recall if it was
> provided on disk.  Apex used Apple's RWTS routines sans some of the
> formatting code, in order to free up the page between $bf00 and $bfff for
> other uses.  If you'd gotten in touch with us, we would have sent you a
> 16-sector update.

Yes, it wasn't real hard.  I looked through the code in the manual 
and parts of the OS and then stole code out of Apple's 16-sector 
RTWS to replace the parts of the 13-sector one that Apex used.  
Still have it around here too I believe.

> fewer than a dozen.  I no longer live in Colorado, but whenever I go back
> to visit family and friends I try to attend a meeting.

Hmm, I have family in Golden and my mom has a place up in Idaho 
Springs, maybe I should look them up sometime when I'm visiting 
up there.

Seems to me I've seen a ref around that a later version of Apex 
which is available at some site.  Don't recall off hand though.  Also 
seem to recall something about working with it on a PC but that 
just might be the Dr. Pepper affecting my mind.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From rws at ais.net  Thu Sep 10 22:04:05 1998
From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>

Hi everybody,

I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
questions concern moving them.  

What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.

1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
could lighten them up. 

3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or removing
anything, stuff like that.

Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:

4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?

5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.

6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.

7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
winter?  I live in IL.

Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).

I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model OIS-60X,
and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC connectors),
plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the server. 
I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges too,
"because they're almost the same".  I think not.

Thanks,

Richard Schauer
rws@ais.net



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Thu Sep 10 22:09:29 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
Message-ID: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>

A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a "bunch
of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:

1 commodore 64.
1 composite monitor for a 64.
1 1541 floppy drive.
1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
1 vic 1600 modem.
1 Apple Printer.
lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.

I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)

Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?

*shrug*

Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)

-Jim
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 23:15:37 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809101958.A17939-0100000@netcom18>
References: <199809101341.AA18144@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b21e5418a0ab@[192.168.1.2]>

>  Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...
>maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it
>wating for something on the ethernet port?

Classicly stupid question, are you using the same cable that you use for
the other system?  These systems expect something other than a plain
null-modem cable.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From cfandt at servtech.com  Thu Sep 10 22:25:39 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <199809110325.DAA07254@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 22:04 10-09-98 -0500,  "Richard W. Schauer" <rws@ais.net> wrote:
>Hi everybody,
>
>I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
>questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
>questions concern moving them.  
>
>What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
>5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
>plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
>order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
>
>1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
>2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
>lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

I know a bit about the 3262's. Had a chance to drag one home with my 9370
system. Too doggone big to handle so I did not take it. Stripped
electronics out and had to scrap rest :-(  

They do weigh something over 525 pounds. Not much could be stripped to make
them lighter. Maybe the PSU which weighs about 70-80 pounds. 

220 volts, single phase is the power needed. Don't think they can be set to
115v. but I could check the hardware manual I got stashed in some box
around here that is not yet unpacked. 

The 3262's are however on wheels which would make moving somewhat easier.
Mr. Donzelli is one of the listmembers who knows IBM Big Iron. He might
chime-in on the other components.

Good luck.

Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From jason at xio.com  Thu Sep 10 22:36:48 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980910203648.00bc09d4@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>


Perhaps this list can help me identify something I just picked up.

It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
button makes contact, it says "TOP".

It looked about the right size for a C64 cartridge, but it doesn't do
anything.

Any ideas? Too bad I pretty much destroyed the case while opening it. It
was glued shut pretty tight.

	-jrs
 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 10 22:59:24 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
Message-ID: <199809110359.AA04897@world.std.com>

< > < Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor 
< > < printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I 
< > < have let it go for 10 minutes....  
< > 
< > I think it's waiting for a terminal.
< 
< 
<   Ummmm, on power-up?  I'm hooked to the 9-pin console port...   
< maybe I should jumper RTS-CTS on the two other DB25s?  Or is it 
< wating for something on the ethernet port? 

Nope step 8 is language inquery and if it's not printing a list to 
respond to then the halt button is in.  Step 9 is identify the terminal.

If the terminal cannot or does not respond I belive it will continue.
Do check the settings of the halt and run buttons and The switches on the 
rear pannel.

Allison



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 23:12:40 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910211144.9355E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.  I
> know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had mine
> <sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were selectable

I know a 4-carthridge adapter was made for the TI-99/4a as I picked one up
from a thrift store a while ago.


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 10 23:17:09 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
In-Reply-To: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980910211639.9355F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
> with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
> going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
> a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
> Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
> interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
> be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?

It probably indicates you've finally acquired some good taste :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rexstout at uswest.net  Fri Sep 11 00:21:15 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110304.WAA00962@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: <l03130300b21e5e79af71@[207.225.86.192]>

I've only seen a System/34, so that's all I'm talking about... You can get
more info by going to
http://www.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?request=menu&parms=&xu=guest&xp=&xh=lo
gon and choose the SalesManual link, enter the part number(5340, 5360,
etc...) and off you go... Be sure to use the inactive option for the older
hardware, and then go through all of them and see what pops up. Lots of
cool stuff...

>1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
>2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
>lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?
Probably. The 34 is very large and heavy, but they have very nice wheels
under them, works great on smooth floors. No info at IBMLink about
size/weight/etc...

>2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
>tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
>they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
>could lighten them up.
I'm not sure. There really isn't much that can come apart. I suppose you
could get the hard drives out, but I'm not sure how(just moving those
around would be interesting to watch...). You could take out the floppy
drive, but it doesn't weigh much. Maybe you could get the power supply out,
but I don't know how. I would be worried more about the cabling than the
actual hardware, I'm not sure how everythings hooked up in there.


>Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
>4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
The 5340 uses twin-ax cabling(big thick expensive stuff) going to 5250-type
terminals. You could also use a PC as a terminal using a twinax interface
card(they seem kinda expensive to me, I seem to remember seeing them for
around $150+ last time I looked). You can still buy the cabling and maybe
the terminals, go to http://www.system3x.com/, which has TONS of Sys/3x and
AS/400 stuff.

>5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.
IBMLink shows single phase 208v or 230v as the options available.

>6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
I'm not sure, but I doubt it's very much. Looking at IBMLink, they maxed
out with a 258MB hard drive(which required an extension to the cabinet),
and 256K RAM. Bottom end was 8MB HD and 32K RAM.

>7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
>winter?  I live in IL.
Well, most people joke(or were they?) about using them AS a heater... Do a
search at DejaNews(http://www.dejanews.com/) use the power search option
and set an early begin search date. There's some interesting stories about
the S/34, but mostly resumes for people who once programmed them but no
longer remember anythign about them...

>Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
>be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
I'd be worried about damage to yourself. Times like this are good to have
an ambulance sitting nearby ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Thu Sep 10 23:11:01 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Chuck Peddle
References: <199809100702.AAA13199@lists4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35F8A2D4.77DFCE0C@goldrush.com>

This snippet I grabbed last year as I was compiling my Commodore 8-bit write
up for Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 at least it's a lead...  (my scrapbook
doesn't get cleaned much)   I think it was a writeup on an awards ceremony for
the innovators of the microcomputer industry.

>        One of the awards went to William D. Mensch, Jr., president and CEO, The Western
>        Design Center Inc. Mensch was fundamental to the development of the Motorola
>        68000 microprocessor, and he went on to help invent and develop the 6502 chip at
>        MOS Technology in the early 1970s. The 6502 was eventually used in Apple,
>        Commodore and Atari computers.
> 
>        The second award in the category was presented to Chuck Peddle, president, Thstyme
>        Ltd., and another MOS Technology veteran. Peddle pioneered the phenomenally
>        successful 6502 microprocessor, and, under Commodore, led the development of one
>        of the first personal computers: the PET (Personal Electronic Transactor), which put the
>        6502 chip to practical use.

Hope that helps!
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 10 23:57:35 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: uVAX II sleeping...
In-Reply-To: <199809110359.AA04897@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809102112.A2853-0100000@netcom5>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:

> < wating for something on the ethernet port? 
> 
> Nope step 8 is language inquery and if it's not printing a list to 
> respond to then the halt button is in.  Step 9 is identify the terminal.
> 
> If the terminal cannot or does not respond I belive it will continue.
> Do check the settings of the halt and run buttons and The switches on the 
> rear pannel.

  Right. Zane asked (quite rightly) in an earlier post if I was sure 
of my cabling..  yes, I am using the same cables for both machines; 
the 'dead' one is sitting on top of the 'live' one's cabinet...  
nothing but the DB9 adapter going to the console and the power cord.

Further configuration observation: The II/RC has a console port, a 
DB15F (for e-net?) and 8 DB25Ms... [this is the working machine]
  The II has the DB9M, the DB15F + fuse holder, marked DEQNA, and 
two other DB15s, for the monitor and keyboard [dead machine]

  BUT......

 What *IS* stupid is...  last time it gave me the >>> prompt and I 
just sat there waiting for the computer, which was waiting for me to 
tell it to do something.  DUH! So, okay, tonite a few more synapses 
are firing than last time..  I type >>>b <ret> and......

?06 HLT INST
    PC = 20040314
?15 CORRPTN

 and there we are....  I do not have the proper docs yet, so y'all 
must tell me what this means... unless my dim assumption is correct 
and it is missing it's Fixed Disk...  which is still stuck.  I 
re-booted 6 or 7 times, the result is invariate.

> 
> Allison
> 
> 


  Cheers (and mucho thanks!!)


  John



From thedm at sunflower.com  Fri Sep 11 00:26:47 1998
From: thedm at sunflower.com (TheDM)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
Message-ID: <000801bddd44$c5c9e720$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us>

When or IF you get rid of it, im very interested in that monitor.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jim@calico.litterbox.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 10:19 PM
Subject: treasure haul


>A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a
"bunch
>of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:
>
>1 commodore 64.
>1 composite monitor for a 64.
>1 1541 floppy drive.
>1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
>1 vic 1600 modem.
>1 Apple Printer.
>lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
>lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.
>
>I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
>work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
>switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)
>
>Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
>with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm
probably
>going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I
was
>a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I
had.
>Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the
non-standard
>interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I
wouldn't
>be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?
>
>*shrug*
>
>Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)
>
>-Jim
>--
>Jim Strickland
>jim@calico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 03:00:19 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <8bfe1699.35f8d893@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-10 23:23:46 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I have just acquired several large pieces of equipment and I have some
 questions about them.   I haven't moved them yet- some of these
 questions concern moving them.  
 
 What I have are an IBM System 34 (model 5340), an IBM System 36 (model
 5360), two tape drives (model 8809-1C), and two printers (model 3262-B1),
 plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
 order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
 
 1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there estimated
 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500
 lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?

The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is
necessary.
 
 2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get to
 tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
 they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
 could lighten them up. 

Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I don't know
the configuation of  the 34. It is possible it could be composed of several
parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have moved
several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate type of
liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully the truck
matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a piece of
sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on. IBM made
a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used to keep
the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can tie it
down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off each
machine.
 
 3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or removing
 anything, stuff like that.

At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be raised
with a crescent wrench, all the way up.
 
 Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
 
 4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
 
 5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.

It could be single phase.
 
 6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
 
 7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
 winter?  I live in IL.

They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be warm to
run.
 
 Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really like to
 be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
 
 I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
 take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model OIS-60X,
 and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC connectors),
 plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the server. 
 I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges too,
 "because they're almost the same".  I think not.
  >>
If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The engine
is a Canon SX I think.


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Sep 11 06:39:38 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: robots?
References: <199809060638.AAA21955@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35F90BFA.61DE2166@rain.org>

Jim wrote:
> 
> I was just watching a thing on robots and they mentioned some
> of the early 80s attempts.  Does anyone have in their collection
> a H.E.R.O, or other robots of that vintage?

I was at a thrift store about a year ago, and saw a Max Steele Robot for
sale.  With a price of $10 including manuals but no main battery but in
pretty good shape, I purchased it.  After mounting a 12V gel cell on the
back (it wouldn't fit inside the robot), we found out it worked quite
nicely.  A web search turned up a web site (don't have it handy) where the
statistics and more info was available.  Apparently there were only about
5000 of these units made.  It uses, IIRC, a 6502 microprocessor and has a
slot for program cartridges.


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 09:29:17 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809111212.OAA01306@marina.fth.sbs.de>

>>> Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do
>>> (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :().
>>> Try to get a second one.

> Who stole your Apple ///?

Who ? I guess some bad guys.

> And under what circumstances??

They opened the basement dor on the backside of the house, and
worked their way up into the computer rooms.

>> To late, already openned it.  I never really had any intention of 
>> leaving it wrapped.  I bought it that way because I knew everything 
>> would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///.  BTW, sorry 
>> to hear about your Apple ///.  Hope they didn't get anything else.  
>> That has always worried me.  Anyone breaking in wouldn't know 
>> what this stuff really was and would think they just found 
>> something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop.

> Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the
> computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at
> the pawn shop :)

Its exacte wat I think hapened - the APPLE /// (no plus!) was
the most prominent device on the big table. I think he was the
only thing close to a PC in their eyes (An APPLE // 'tower' with
two Profile Harddisks, Monitor /// and an external Disk /// drive).

I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

I'm very happy that they didn't know what was laying in front
of them - they took none of the KIMs or the other ols single
boarders, non of the real devices like SWTP or Heatkit.

My problem is that I should monitor now all major flea markts,
but I'm leaving for the VCF this saturday :(

Gruss
H.




--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From museum at techniche.com  Fri Sep 11 07:27:59 1998
From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <199809111227.IAA25788@chmls05.mediaone.net>

Hi Jason,

I can't precisely identify what you have but I've got a navarone cartridge
connector somewhere in my collection.  They were a small company and
the connector I have allow you to have 3 cartridges connected to the TI99/4a
at once.  there was a switch to select the cartridge that you wanted to be
active and a reset button if I remember correctly.  This allow you to 
switch cartridges *without* reseting the computer or putting too much
wear on your cartridges.  This was very useful in certain circumstances
such as when using the assembler cartridge.  You wolld use it in this 
way  to examine the workings of ther cartridges.

Maybe your device serves a somewhat similar function.

Jon

>
>Perhaps this list can help me identify something I just picked up.
>
>It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
>light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
>square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
>an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
>covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
>SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
>button makes contact, it says "TOP".
>
>It looked about the right size for a C64 cartridge, but it doesn't do
>anything.
>
>Any ideas? Too bad I pretty much destroyed the case while opening it. It
>was glued shut pretty tight.
>
>	-jrs
> 
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon
>



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 11 08:59:37 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
Message-ID: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

Isn't it funny how that law *ALWAYS* works?

Here's the story:
44 is on a sturdy (I thought...) cart, ready to be moved into a larger room with more power available.  Then RA81, and 2 BA boxes.  Cart is stood toward the middle of the server room overnight, so if it does fall, nothing gets damaged, right?

Try again.

About 7:00, Linux server dies.  Funny.  I come in to investigate this morining.
Arrive to the gentle beep of UPSes.
Spot the 44 in multiple parts on the floor, shit pants, see the cart against the
opposite wall (Or as close as it could get, there was crud in it's way...)
Apparently, the 44 dove off the cart about 6:00, the distro panel for the
DH11 caught the power line of a strip loaded with gear on the way down, sliced it
open, and made for a small electrical fire.
Total damage:  A hefty dose of 120AC on the DH distro board, and I snapped the
switch of the second BA11 (AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!  NOT AGAIN!), but it seems to
be OK.  The traces (appear to be) OK on the distro panel, so I may be able to
clean the scorch mark off.

As for that powerstrip, it shorted, blackened part of the wall, and nailed the
power to 2 of our servers when it blew the breaker for the wall it was attached
to.

I hate life...
-------


From adept at Mcs.Net  Fri Sep 11 09:02:19 1998
From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: treasure haul
In-Reply-To: <199809110309.VAA28704@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980911090151.15970A-100000@Mercury.mcs.net>

Depending on the software and carts, I'd be interested in them when
you are through. :)

Cheers,

  Dan

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:

> A buddy of mine is packing up to move and asked me if I'd like to take a "bunch
> of computer junk" off his hands.  Now that I have it home, I find I have:
> 
> 1 commodore 64.
> 1 composite monitor for a 64.
> 1 1541 floppy drive.
> 1 Sekosia(?) printer with a C=64 interface.
> 1 vic 1600 modem.
> 1 Apple Printer.
> lots of manuals and stuff for the 2e I bought from him earlier.
> lots of manuals, cartriges, and software for the 64.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to test anything but the printer, which appears to
> work (although as usual my GS doesn't seem to LIKE it much.  I may wind up
> switching back to my epson lx800 with that machine.)
> 
> Once I've tested the 64 and whatnot to make sure it works, and messed about
> with the software I always wanted to have but could never afford, I'm probably
> going to get rid of it.  And I can't quite put my finger on why, since I was 
> a '64 owner until 1990.  Maybe its that I would miss the custom hardware I had.
> Or that I can't imagine going back to a 60 column screen.  Or the non-standard
> interfaces for EVERYTHING on it.  I dunno.  Does it make sense that I wouldn't
> be nostalgic for the machine I actually owned, as opposed to the apple2s?
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> Anyway.  Just a heads up for you Commodore folk out there. :)
> 
> -Jim
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 11 09:04:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911070410.27006A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> I hate life...

And what did you learn from this mini-tragedy, Daniel?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Fri Sep 11 09:15:54 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911070410.27006A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[What did I learn?]

Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
weight.

Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.
-------


From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au  Fri Sep 11 19:50:30 1998
From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Recent finds...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980912004232.2550A-100000@blitzen.canberra.edu.au>


Today I had to transfer a vast quantity of old computers from one uni
faculty down to residences (where I am sysadmin), now this load of
equipment was mainly older PC's, and some Apple II and Mac stuff, now the
interesting part.. Amongst the boxes of disks there is a box of about 30
hard-sectored disks, including a couple labelled 'CP/M Ver 2.2 Rev 1.2.1
9600 Baud, PIP,FILES,SYSGEN,STAT,DO(=SUBMIT),DSKCOPY(=COPY)' and a few
disks of something called "GDOS". Also I was given a few shelves full of
technical books, including what appears to be a complete set of Philips
component books, as well as other data books, and the most interesting
being the Motorola 8-bit devices manual, and a Kaypro technical manual.
There is also a collection of Kaypro PC's.

Would this be CP/M-86 or the Z80 version,and are they useful to anyone?

Cheers
Karl

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia

Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au



From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Sep 11 09:01:47 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: More on emulation, Linus and Transmeta from TBTF
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980911090147.00e99960@pc>

..Say it ain't so, Luke

  Watching the watchers watch Transmeta

    Transmeta, the Silicon Valley company that employs Linus Torvalds,
    isn't saying what kind of technology it's working on. (Their Web
    site says, succinctly if paradoxically, "This web page is not here
    yet.") The Red Herring tried to find out what they are up to --
    or perhaps their account of the attempt, "Stalking Transmeta," [17]
    is all in good fun. PC Magazine prints a more substantial guess [18]:

      > [Transmeta] has been working for about two years on a CPU for
      > PCs, which is rumored to have its own internal instruction set
      > but to use a fast software translator to execute x86 instruc-
      > tions. Transmeta has raised a large (undisclosed) amount of
      > venture capital and is well staffed; a product debut is likely
      > in 1999.

    In the NY Times for 8/31, John Markoff relays a rumor [19] that he
    says has some Sili Valley techies quite upset.

    Markoff's article is mostly about evidence of increasing strain
    in the "Wintel" alliance. One factor contributing to the wobble
    is the rapid growth of technology areas such as telephony and
    personal digital assistants that do not use Intel hardware or
    Microsoft software. Microsoft has an entrant at this end of the
    market -- Windows CE -- but Intel is seen as concentrating in-
    creasingly on the shrinking top end. (Its purchase of Digital's
    StrongArm technology may have been reduced in value by the defec-
    tion of key technical talent.)

    If Transmeta, which was founded by a former Sun Sparc architect,
    is working on a platform for portable computing -- let's call it
    a "media chip" [20] -- what OS will it run? Well, with Linus on
    board, you would assume the answer would be "Linux, duh." Some
    flavor of Java would certainly be a contender. But Markoff says
    the word is that Transmeta may run Microsoft software. A hardware
    designer is quoted thus:

      > It would be a little like hiring Luke Skywalker and then
      > turning the whole organization over to Darth Vader.

    [17] http://www.herring.com/mag/issue58/stalking.html
    [18] http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/cpu98/intro10.html
    [19]
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/08/biztech/articles/31chip.html
    [20] http://www.techweb.com/se/directlink.cgi?EET19980706S0069
    ____________________________________________

    TBTF home and archive at http://www.tbtf.com/ . To subscribe send
    the message "subscribe" to tbtf-request@world.std.com. TBTF is
    Copyright 1994-1998 by Keith Dawson, <dawson@world.std.com>. Com-
    mercial use prohibited. For non-commercial purposes please forward,
    post, and link as you see fit.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Sep 11 10:41:12 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911084037.5620A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> [What did I learn?]
> 
> Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
> weight.
> 
> Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.

You also might want to lean a rickety pile of boxes against a wall instead
of parking it in the center of a bunch of expensive or critical equipment.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Thu Sep 10 23:14:25 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: CP/M for TRS-80 model 4P
References: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35F8A3A1.F0FCC2EF@sprintmail.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of CP/M for my TRS-80 model 4P ?
I would be very greatfull.. Also Pay for your trouble and shipping charges..

I fact I will send you a pre-paid return mailer for you to just put the disk in
for me..

Please help... Thanks..

Phil...




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Fri Sep 11 11:37:46 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Making and using PDP-11 disk images
Message-ID: <980911123746.2e2@trailing-edge.com>

>Could someone provide a quick tutorial on how the process works?

All you need is one page out of the RT-11 manuals: that for COPY/DEV/FI.

As an example, if you've got a RX02 that you want an image of, and you're
going to put that image on a RL02 and call it "MYRX02.DSK", you do:

COPY/DEVICE/FILE DY0: DL0:MYRX02.DSK

Then you use Kermit (or, if you're like me and have a half-dozen networked
PDP-11's, you just use FTP) to move the image off to whatever other place
you might want to put the image.

To do the reverse operation, you'd (or course!) do:

COPY/FILE/DEVICE DL0:MYRX02.DSK DY0:

Note that doing this under RT-11, you *only* get the blocks that RT-11
usually addresses on the disk.  There are the usual caveats about
track zero on 8" floppies and the bad block forwarding table on RL02's;
these are well-discussed in the RT-11 _Software Support Manual_ in
the sections on individual drivers, and the .SPFUN ways of reading
these areas are also thoroughly documented.

Also note that in doing this, you'll be copying every block on the disk,
even those not included in a file.  Don't get burned like some others
have and end up copying proprietary or personal data that you didn't
want copied when you make the image!  Bob Schor has a program called
"CLEAR.SAV", that is available from the 11S113 RT DECUS SIG symposium
tape, that will clear out blocks not allocated to a file.  This, and
many other useful utilities from Bob, are available from:

ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/11s113/schor1_dsk

-----
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Fri Sep 11 12:12:23 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111212.OAA01306@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809111607.LAA05220@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 14:30, Hans Franke wrote:

> I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
> destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
> trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
> unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
> and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
> 4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
> the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see 
but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't 
expect I will.  Back before I really started collecting, someone 
broken in and tried to take my AT&T 6300.  The cables were all 
screwed into the back around the sides of the desk's hutch.  Since 
they were in a hurry they just tried to pick it up and run.  The 
cables snapped so they left it.  Took a friend's PC and left my 
Amiga 500.  Guess they thought it was just a spare keyboard or 
something.  Had some other systems but those were all that were 
in the house at the time.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 14:51:27 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: New? Find
Message-ID: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>

> On 11 Sep 98, at 14:30, Hans Franke wrote:
>> I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also
>> destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400,
>> trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone
>> unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64
>> and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary
>> 4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only
>> the CRT the computer and the stand is still available.

> Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see 
> but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't 
> expect I will.

Hmm brings up two questions:
First: Is there already an Enterprise for display (Juhu Sa-a-am) ?
Second: Will you be attending VCF ?
If no for the first question, I could take the remainings and
put it up on display - but if no for the second, I'm sooo sorry :)

Gruss
H.

P.S.: Sam, answer quick, since I will do last Email-check in
  about 2 hours.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From heavy at ctesc.net  Fri Sep 11 12:39:34 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <199809062111.RAA29748@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]>

Hi, ya'll- I'm overwhelmed and elated to have found this listserve.
Overwhelmed by the depth of knowledge displayed here, and by your
willingness to share it. Elated because I have been watching, and even
participating, for years in the loss by destruction for recycling these old
machines, without being able to do much about it, personally. This very
active listserve gives me hope that the history of computing will not be
lost!

My entry into computing is very short compared to many on this list. I've
been hacking on these things for only about 6-7 years, and I am
self-taught. My first machine was a Sanyo MBC-1000 given to me by a friend.
I graduated from that to a Mac 512KE, and have worked my way up through
most of the Macs (including some backward steps). I will probably be mostly
a lurker, although I do see now that I possess some little knowledge that I
can share with the list, primarily about restoring old Macs, in the
practical hardware sense. I don't know much about programming, except for
the "higher" GUI, user-level stuff. The Macs that I have and use every day
(that I calll modern) consist in a Mac SE-30 (that I'm setting up as a
local router), a Quadra 610, and a Quadra 950; I had to suppress a chuckle
(at myself), on visiting one of the links I found here (the Classic
Computer show on the West Coast?) and seeing that the Q950 was included
amongst the line of obsolete Macs. Oh, I know that it's obsolete, but it
does my work quite well, for now, and I can't at the moment afford to
upgrade to a PPC. (I paid big money for it, too.) The Q610 has a "classic"
Apple 601 Upgrade card in it, which converts it into a 40Mhz PPC, and I've
discovered works very well under OS 8.1, despite being disclaimed by Apple
for support. I also have an Intel 100Mhz Pentium, on which I'm hacking on
learning Windows NT 4.

In spite of my preoccupation with the old stuff, my most ardent desire is
for machines and software that really work well, for users in the present
and future. Liken this to the auto industry: the first automobiles that
came out had to have a physically strong person with a fair amount of
knowledge of their auto's workings, in order to deal with the problems that
arose while driving them. Automobiles have "progressed" to a stage where
everyone can now own one, without much of a clue as to how they work, and
can rely on them to get them to their destination. Computers are
progressing along this path, at what I consider a much faster rate, than
the automobile. Although I place myself in the first class of users to some
extent, I DON'T WANT to have to go back and learn all the basics, that many
on this list display intimate knowledge of. I'm too old (54), started too
late in computing, and have too many other interests to take care of, to do
that.

Due to circumstances, I am in a place where there is a lot of old machines
to find, and I do have a small collection. Also due to circumstances, I am
needing to divest myself of my collection, and am actively doing so, on
eBay. I was somewhat surprised at the interest displayed on two of my
auctions, and didn't discover the reason for this, until I delivered one of
the Sanyo MBC-1000s to a buyer in Austin, George Currie. He told me about
this list, and said that someone had posted my auctions to this list, and
the mystery was solved.

There has been some recent talk on this list about old Mac restorations.
I've been running an auction on 10 MacPlus analog pullouts, for two weeks,
and have dropped the starting price from $3@ to $1@, in a Dutch auction.
They have finally gotten bids, and if any on this list has any interest in
them, this is their last chance at 'em. The auction ends today at 23:05:36.
Had I known of this list, I would have offered them here, first. I think I
paid $5@ for them, when I bought them, years ago.

MacPlus Analog parts boards:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=28864145

    "Recycleable" is the new politically-correct word for "Garbage"
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Sep 11 12:46:36 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: More on emulation, Linus and Transmeta from TBTF
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980911090147.00e99960@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980911123348.19941B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Another clue that Transmeta is making a new chip: one of their host names
is neosilicon.  Their DNS servers is very friendly and talkative, but they
are clearly paranoid in the way their servers are configured.

Centaur was much the same way when they were making their x86 clone (which
I think they call WinChip now).  IBM was also pretty quiet about their 615
project -- I don't remember if they ever admitted that the chip existed.
If Transmeta is really making an x86 clone, all I can say is *yawn*.
Linus is still pretty active on the Linux kernel hackers list doing
seemingly mainstream stuff.  Maybe they hired him as a tester.  Doing x86
compatibility testing is the hardest part of making a clone.

ObCC: what was the first MPU clone?  It couldn't have been the NS 8080
clone, could it?

-- Doug



From lff at unique-inc.com  Fri Sep 11 12:45:50 1998
From: lff at unique-inc.com (lff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: ATARI 1040ST w/monitor
Message-ID: <199809111745.NAA23644@i2klff.unique>


Would you be interested in an ATARI 1040ST computer with the SC1224
monitor?  I have a host of software for it, include dBASE, word
processors, a C language compiler, and others.  I also have
a handful of games.

Larry Fisher

Unique Computer Services Inc.
lff@unique-inc.com 
(732) 786-0111 x104 (voice)
(732) 786-0097 (fax)


From gentry at zk3.dec.com  Fri Sep 11 13:08:00 1998
From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: pdp-11 software license and RT-11 V5.3
References: <35F7DD06.41C6@zk3.dec.com>
Message-ID: <35F96700.41C6@zk3.dec.com>

I recently wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that the license has been confirmed
> by Mentec, and that there is at least a copy of the RT-11 V5.3
> distribution kit available on:
> 
> ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z

I'm sorry to say that the file is *temporarily* unavailable.  I'm
replacing it with a much smaller file, but this new file will still
contain all the bits as distributed (the old file had a lot of
empty space, the size of an RL02).

I'll let everyone know when the new, smaller, file is available.

                                        Megan Gentry
                                        Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry&zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg&world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    |     Replace '&' with '@' for mail   |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   | 
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 11 14:53:44 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
Message-ID: <19980911195345.9838.qmail@hotmail.com>





The System/34 is on wheels. You do need to lock the hard drive heads
if there's a hard drive. To do this: slide a coin or screwdriver
into the little slots on the sides of the machine to open the panels.
Once you've found the hard drive, there is one variety I can help
you with. In this one, there is a metal box to the right of the
motor, spindle, etc. On one side of this box is a single screw
which you have to remove. This will allow you to swing the metal box
out of the way on its hinges. Once done, you will find a white
plastic wheel on the bottom edge of the drive. TUrn it all the way
in the direction that it will turn. THere should be directions on the
metal box as well.
> plus some manuals and tapes.  Everything is supposed to be in working
> order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
> 
> 1.  How much do these things weigh?  The computer person there 
estimated
> 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 
500
> lb. on the tape drives.  Does that sound about right?
>
>The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is
>necessary.
> 
> 2.  How possible is partial dismantling for transport?  I didn't get 
to
> tear into them to look.  Loading access is fairly good in the building
> they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky.  It would help if I
> could lighten them up. 
>
>Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I 
don't know
>the configuation of  the 34. It is possible it could be composed of 
several
>parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have 
moved
>several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate 
type of
>liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully 
the truck
>matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a 
piece of
>sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on. 
IBM made
>a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used 
to keep
>the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can 
tie it
>down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off 
each
>machine.
> 
> 3.  What needs to be done before moving?  Head locking, moving or 
removing
> anything, stuff like that.
>
>At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be 
raised
>with a crescent wrench, all the way up.
> 
> Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
> 
> 4.  What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
> 
> 5.  What kind of power does it need?  I'd assume 3 phase 220v.
>
>It could be single phase.
> 
> 6.  How much computing power is this?  Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
> 
> 7.  How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
> winter?  I live in IL.
>
>They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be 
warm to
>run.
> 
> Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.  I'd really 
like to
> be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
> 
> I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
> take home a Wang word processing system.  The server is a model 
OIS-60X,
> and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC 
connectors),
> plus a laser printer.  I think the printer weighs more than the 
server. 
> I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges 
too,
> "because they're almost the same".  I think not.
>  >>
>If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The 
engine
>is a Canon SX I think.
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From franke at sbs.de  Fri Sep 11 19:03:57 1998
From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:34 2005
Subject: Bye
Message-ID: <199809112146.XAA26763@marina.fth.sbs.de>

I will leve the list for the next 3 weeks - I think thats way better 
than to read one zillion mails :)

Bis zum VCF
(See you at the VCF)
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 13:21:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387060495.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Sep 11, 98 06:59:37 am
Message-ID: <m0zHXoy-000IyUC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 12:32:13 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <3424448e.35f882fe@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 10, 98 09:55:10 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHX3Q-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep 11 17:00:03 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: CP/M for TRS-80 model 4P
References: <727b2523.35f87483@aol.com> <35F8A3A1.F0FCC2EF@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <35F99D63.70F7@bright.net>

Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a copy of CP/M for my TRS-80 model 4P ?
> I would be very greatfull.. Also Pay for your trouble and shipping charges..
> 
> I fact I will send you a pre-paid return mailer for you to just put the disk in
> for me..
> 
> Please help... Thanks..
> 
> Phil...
Hi Phil,
I used to own a TRS-80 Model 4P. I always keep copies of master disks
just in case I might need them in the future. Attached is Montezuma
Micro CP/M disk image file I saved using the TELEDISK program. I also am
including TELEDISK. Good luck and let me know if it worked for you. Oh,
be sure to replicate this disk in a 360K drive. 1.2 meg drives are not
reliable for making copies.

--Alan
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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Fri Sep 11 17:19:38 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: the haul (revisited)
Message-ID: <199809112219.QAA02608@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, yesterday I posted about a bunch of commodore stuff a friend gave me 
in the process of cleaning out his trailor.  Here is the skinny.

The 64 works, but the keyboard has about had it.  A and RETURN don't work 
without wiggling them.  I seem to recall keyboards for this machine for about 
5 bucks in surplus catalogs. I'll sell it for $10 +shipping.  Includes power 
supply (the white brick kind, possibly from a 64c?) and manual.

The 1541 works flawlessly.  I'm kind of surprized, mine was a finicky piece of
junk.  This one appears to be the later model of '41 with the rectangular access
light.  I'll sell it for $20 + shipping.  I *think* I have a manual for this 
too.

I didn't try the printer.  It's a Seikosia sp1000vc, looks intact, but has
no ribbon.  If you want it, make me an offer + shipping.  

The monitor is junk.  It works, but unless you live near Colorado Springs and
like to frotz with monitors internally it's not worth mailing.  Picture quality
is worse than a cheap TV.  If you live nearby and want it let me know and you
can have it.

Vicmodem - Don't know.  Haven't got a phone line near where I was testing
and I've long since forgotten how to use a vicmodem.  May already be spoken for.
has the disk it shipped with, which has victerm, 64 term, and quantumlink. 

All prices are in US dollars, and all the hardware is designed to run on US
current with US video screens.

I've already had several people express interest in the cartriges and the 
software, and I've sent e-mail to the person who sent the oldest timestamped
message.  This person also wanted the vicmodem.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From wirehead at retrocomputing.com  Fri Sep 11 16:45:40 1998
From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy's Law axes my 44...
In-Reply-To: <13387063460.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980911164320.24682A-100000@www.retrocomputing.com>



> Don't put a lot of weight on ANYTHING, especially expensive/unreplaceable
> weight.
> 
> Unless the ANYTHING is made specifially from this purpose.

You learned that if you drop an 11/44 on a linux box, the linux box stops 
working.  If you drop a linux box on an 11/44 the 11/44 doesn't stop 
working.  =-)  Or something like that...

Anthony Clifton - Wirehead



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 18:00:52 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
Message-ID: <542b32db.35f9aba4@aol.com>

In a message dated 98-09-11 18:10:36 EDT, you write:

<< Older machines have a 5 pin DIN socket, later ones have an 8 pin one. I 
 can look up the pinouts if you need them. >>

yes, that would be great. one socket has 6 pins, the other has 8 pins. 


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Sep 11 18:13:17 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980911152237.5d57ce66@ricochet.net>

At 08:36 PM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the

IIRC, Navarone made a video interface for (at least) the Atari ST -- plug
your camcorder/vcr into the cart, plug the cart into the computer, and
capture images.  Kinda like the Snappy thing you can get these days.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Sep 11 18:13:20 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Recent findings
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980911162818.5f37b5a8@ricochet.net>

I managed to pick up a Fora LP-386c mini-lunchbox (kinda like some of the
Compaq's).  Dated 1989, so almost classic, and my first "F" computer!  

Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but otherwise
seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this?  Inside,
it has some interesting connectors.  There are some flat... hmmm.. plastic
strips with traces on them (kinda like ultra-flat ribbon cables?) that go
into what look like IDC connectors.  Only, you pull up on the top rim of
the IDC-like things, and that releases the ends of the flat things.
Surprised the heck out of me when I was (gently!) trying to pull the whole
thing off.  8^)  

Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
would an RCA plug work? 

Lastly, but not least, is probably the coolest item I've found in a while
-- A Frisbee that says XEROX PARC on it.  Very neat!


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep 10 14:29:36 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <m0zHGHy-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <8336707@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 10, 98 06:55:07 pm
Message-ID: <199809112334.TAA00524@smtp.interlog.com>

On 11 Sep 98 at 0:38, Tony Duell wrote:

> The audio output circuit is quite simple. Sound comes from pin 19 on the 
> 6560 VIC chip (UB7). It's filtered by C17 (0.01uF), R16 (1M) and C20 
> (0.1uF) and fed to the base of Q5 (2N3904) which is connected as an 
> emitter follower. The collector is tied to the +5V rail. The emitter load 
> is R15 (470 Ohm). The emitter is also connected to the +ve side of C16 
> (1uF), the other side of which goes to pin 3 of the monitor socket.
> 
Interesting. The schematic I have in the Programmers Reference Guide is
obviously for a different model. The schema is c-writ 1980 and labeled 
"Schematic Main Logic Version E"


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Thu Sep 10 14:29:35 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <35F80081.3E53821E@xio.com>
Message-ID: <199809112334.TAA00530@smtp.interlog.com>

On 10 Sep 98 at 9:40, Jason Simpson wrote:


> Some things I'd like to find:
> 

> Commodore 64/128 stuff:
>         REU (RAM Expansion Unit)
>         Multicartridge adapter (did they make these? I haven't seen one)
>         Accelerator
>         Serial accelerator
>         SuperSnapshot 5 cartridge **
Try
	J.P. PBM Products By Mail
	Box # 60515, N. Sheridan Mall P.O.
	Downsview, ON M3L 1B0
	CANADA
They own the rights to SS and are TMK still producing it and were working on
version 6 which might be available now.

>         -jrs
> 
ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From system at minako.umtec.com  Fri Sep 11 17:39:35 1998
From: system at minako.umtec.com (system@minako.umtec.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
Message-ID: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com>

Can you guys ack this please?

If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:26:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <19980911195345.9838.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 11, 98 12:53:44 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbdm-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:16:04 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]> from "Jim Weiler" at Sep 11, 98 12:39:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbU8-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 17:20:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Sep 11, 98 07:52:27 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHbY9-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:45:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
In-Reply-To: <199809112334.TAA00524@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 10, 98 07:29:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHcst-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:54:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: C64 video
In-Reply-To: <542b32db.35f9aba4@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Sep 11, 98 07:00:52 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHd18-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Fri Sep 11 19:12:36 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com> from "system@minako.umtec.com" at Sep 11, 98 06:39:35 pm
Message-ID: <199809120012.UAA28280@shell.monmouth.com>

> 
> Can you guys ack this please?
> 
> If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...
> 

Wow... SMTP on VAX/VMS.  Now I just have to find a Vax.

Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From cfandt at servtech.com  Fri Sep 11 19:50:34 1998
From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120012.UAA28280@shell.monmouth.com>
References: <009CC13B.FC933780.1@minako.umtec.com>
Message-ID: <199809120050.AAA26145@cyber2.servtech.com>

At 20:12 11-09-98 -0400, you wrote:
>> 
>> Can you guys ack this please?
>> 
>> If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...
>> 
>
>Wow... SMTP on VAX/VMS.  Now I just have to find a Vax.

Hey Bill!  I got an 11/750 for which I want to find a home before winter
sets in too far....

--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA  
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From WHoagIII at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 19:54:48 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Vax 730 FS
Message-ID: <3c1a7403.35f9c658@aol.com>

I have a Vax 730 for sale in Portland, Oregon. I am open to all offers above
scrap.
Please reply directly to whoagiii@aol.com.


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Fri Sep 11 20:00:44 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120050.AAA26145@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Sep 11, 98 08:50:34 pm
Message-ID: <199809120100.VAA11942@shell.monmouth.com>

> Hey Bill!  I got an 11/750 for which I want to find a home before winter
> sets in too far....
> 
> --Chris


I'm not crazy about electric heat 8-)

Actually, maintenance on an 11/750's a royal pain.  I used to do 'em
for a living.

I'm looking for something smaller.  I think a '780's easier to fix
than a '730 or 750.

Anyone on the group have any comments about 11/750 maintenance in a home
environment.  Custom gate arrays scare me without the RDC board and a spares
kit.

Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Fri Sep 11 20:15:48 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: VAX 11/750s everywhere
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809111847.A1007-0100000@netcom13>



  But not within 1000 miles of El-Lay, dammit!

  I would love to find a '750 system. Preferrably with a TE16 and RL02s.

  And docs and software.

  Is that too much to ask of the Universe? O Great Gods of Scrap:

  Just one 11/750, then I'll shut up.

  I promise.


  sigh.

John.


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 11 21:20:35 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Looking for RX01 Floppies
Message-ID: <199809120220.TAA03130@fraser.sfu.ca>

Hi Gang:

I am looking for some RX01 8" floppies, for use in my recently-acquired
RX01 drives (thanks go to John Lawson!!).

I can trade a few boxes of 5-1/4" DD floppies for them. Software on the
diskettes would be a bonus (OS/8 would be great!) but is not a
requirement. I just need some floppies that I can use in my new drives.

Thanks,

Kevin


-- 
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:04:17 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
References: <199809111607.LAA05220@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <35F9E4B1.AB31EC5D@cnct.com>

David Williams wrote:

> Arg, destroyed an Enterprise? That's one I've always wanted to see
> but since the company had a short life in Europe only I don't
> expect I will.  Back before I really started collecting, someone
> broken in and tried to take my AT&T 6300.  The cables were all
> screwed into the back around the sides of the desk's hutch.  Since
> they were in a hurry they just tried to pick it up and run.  The
> cables snapped so they left it.  Took a friend's PC and left my
> Amiga 500.  Guess they thought it was just a spare keyboard or
> something.  Had some other systems but those were all that were
> in the house at the time.

My apartment was burglarized back in the early 80s.  Missing was a
32k TRS-80 Color Computer with disk drive and Line Printer 8 and a
Tandyvision One (the relabeled Mattel Intellivision), that latter
bought the previous day on closeout ($25 less 10% employee discount).
The place was trashed somewhat, and they ignored a couple thousand
bucks worth of semi-precious stones and an amber necklace that my 
ex-wife had from her grandmother that would easily pawn a K.

It was the day that the first copy of OS-9 arrived at the Radio
Shack Computer Center where I did tech support.  I went home with
every intent of finally breaking the seal to see if it would go
live with 64k.  It was not a good day.

My subscription copy of 80-Micro was on the couch.  Neither my ex-
wife nor I had brought it in.  This was in the peak years, when it
wouldn't fit into an apartment house mail niche and instead went
into the trough underneath the mailboxes.  The best assumption is
that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
"maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".  The cop who
took the report demonstrated how easy it was to open our type of
patio door.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From oajones at bright.net  Fri Sep 11 22:06:49 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sorry!
Message-ID: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>

Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
files to the entire mail list.

--Alan


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 21:03:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Recent findings
Message-ID: <199809120315.XAA10363@gate.usaor.net>



----------
> From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Recent findings
> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 7:13 PM
> 
> I managed to pick up a Fora LP-386c mini-lunchbox (kinda like some of the
> Compaq's).  Dated 1989, so almost classic, and my first "F" computer!  
> 
> Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but
otherwise
> seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this? 
Inside,
> it has some interesting connectors.  There are some flat... hmmm..
plastic
> strips with traces on them (kinda like ultra-flat ribbon cables?) that go
> into what look like IDC connectors.  Only, you pull up on the top rim of
> the IDC-like things, and that releases the ends of the flat things.
> Surprised the heck out of me when I was (gently!) trying to pull the
whole
> thing off.  8^)  

Those are the same type of connectors that the keyboard on my PS/2 L40sx
uses.
> 
> Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
> power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
> would an RCA plug work? 
> 
> Lastly, but not least, is probably the coolest item I've found in a while
> -- A Frisbee that says XEROX PARC on it.  Very neat!
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
> 
> Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/
> 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 22:09:04 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
Message-ID: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>

Hello everyone.

I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
(needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
(since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.  

as always, ThAnX in advance,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:40:29 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sorry!
References: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>
Message-ID: <35F9ED2D.E3F94083@cnct.com>

oajones wrote:
> 
> Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
> files to the entire mail list.

Well, some of us can deal with it philosophically -- I've got a 4P
myself, and while I've got Tandy's CP/M 3 for it, I've never actually
played with the Montezuma Micro version 2.2.  (As to when I'll have
_time_ is another story -- remember never to open a can of worms
except when you're actually on a fishing trip -- in a boat).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 22:47:51 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
References: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35F9EEE6.EEBA0CF6@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
 
> I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
> motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
> looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
> (needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
> like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
> a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
> (since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.

Well, I'd offer the relatively gutted Compaq portable I got free at
the last Trenton festival, but I'm sort of in the middle of building
a TRS-80 Color Computer 3 into the beast.  (The 8088 board is a wall
decoration, wasn't worth fixing).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Fri Sep 11 22:54:15 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <35F9E4B1.AB31EC5D@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199809120252.VAA05915@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 23:04, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> The best assumption is
> that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
> "maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".

This is the sort of thing that always crosses my mind whenever I 
bring in a new piece of equipment and have to carry it in from the 
parking lot.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From gram at cnct.com  Fri Sep 11 23:42:52 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
References: <199809120252.VAA05915@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com>

David Williams wrote:
> 
> On 11 Sep 98, at 23:04, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> > The best assumption is
> > that a couple of kids came through, noticed the magazine, thought
> > "maybe this guy's got a computer, let's go look".
> 
> This is the sort of thing that always crosses my mind whenever I
> bring in a new piece of equipment and have to carry it in from the
> parking lot.

In my neighborhood these days (in those days I was in Los Angeles,
a lovely town if Sacramento was plowed back into the swamp on which
it was built) in New Jersey, the locals remember how my current
wife took a baseball bat to to the guy crowbarring open the back
door -- he bruised her knee a bit, she put him out.  The local cops
were going to book her for child abuse (17 years old, 5'11", 190#),
but they eased up when inquiries brought out that when his folks
brought him with them from Brazil a decade back they forgot to
check him (and themselves) in with the INS.  They also tried to
confiscate the baseball bat, but she reminded one of the cops of
the things he used to do when she babysat him as a child.

A couple years back, when we were having part of the attic finished,
the building inspector noticed the number of computers and tried for
a bribe based on his (incorrect at the time) assumption that we must
be running a business out of the house.  Lisa went to high school
with the jerk.  That part was cleared up no problem.  (The bribe to
get the building permit was merely the way these things are done here
in Hudson County, the scale is relatively consistent).

Gods, but I want to get out of this hellhole and move to Wyoming.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Sep 11 23:53:09 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911214808.13836B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard drives
also of unknown condition.

Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
isn't something that I'd really want to ship.

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com



From rexstout at uswest.net  Sat Sep 12 00:51:00 1998
From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: PDP-11/84 & Cipher tape drive questions
Message-ID: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]>

Lets start with the PDP-11/84... What is that console distribution board
connected to the DB-25 port in the back? Remote power control, dumb
terminal or what? What's the pinout of the connector? And about
terminals... What do I need to hook up a dumb terminal? It'll be either a
VT-220(after a good cleaning of the keyboard and a switch or two replaced)
or WY-99GT. OK, when I turn on the system the DC on light turns on and the
LED's just show a boring "77" every time... What does that mean? Anyone
have a list of error codes for the 11/84?

And then Cipher... Got two of them actually, the nicer one is labeled as an
IBM 4968(goes with my IBM Series/1). The big noisy one says it's a Cipher
0920640-98-125OU. So, what kind of interface do I need to hook it up to my
11/84? And is there any easy way to use them with a PC or Mac? And while
I'm talking about drives, does anyone in the PDX area have any cheap or
free drives or Unibus cards laying around they don't need?

--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek     |
|   Orham@qth.net list admin                KD7BCY           |
--------------------------------------------------------------




From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 23:47:18 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
Message-ID: <199809120453.AAA24366@gate.usaor.net>

That would have been exactly what I would have needed, although I would
have needed the CRT, too.  

The mention of the 8088 board reminded me of something:

Is there any way to convert an XT keyboard to make it work with an AT?  If
so, how?

ThAnX,
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: WTB: Portable
> Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 11:47 PM
> 
> 
> Well, I'd offer the relatively gutted Compaq portable I got free at
> the last Trenton festival, but I'm sort of in the middle of building
> a TRS-80 Color Computer 3 into the beast.  (The 8088 board is a wall
> decoration, wasn't worth fixing).
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From mcquiggi at sfu.ca  Fri Sep 11 23:56:34 1998
From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Sun Machines for the Taking
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980911215634.006f1f60@ferrari.sfu.ca>

Hi All:

I am attempting to break up the logjam in the basement, and have the
following machines available to any interested parties:

- Sun 3/50;
- Sun 3/60.

Both are in working order, but the 3/60 has an inoperative CG4 frame
buffer. No matter, you can boot it off of the serial port.

No monitors, and you would have to supply a SCSI hard disk. Both can run
SunOS or NetBSD.

Free for the taking, limit one per person. I'd prefer you to pick up, but I
could be convinced to ship as long as you pay for it.

I also have a spare Sun 4/110, this one has a keyboard, mouse, and hard
drive, with NetBSD installed on it. I'm looking to recoup $100 for this
machine, however!

I'm located near Vancouver, BC.

Kevin


---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi@sfu.ca


From roblwill at usaor.net  Fri Sep 11 23:50:53 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
Message-ID: <199809120503.BAA25509@gate.usaor.net>

Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
Model III?  Are they the same thing?
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318

----------
> From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> 
> I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
drives
> also of unknown condition.
> 
> Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> 
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> 


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Sat Sep 12 00:21:47 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911214808.13836B-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

Wow!  Several responses in just a few minutes.

I'm not really looking for $$$ for these.  I'm looking to trade for
something smaller.  I've just aquired an original Next cube and need
Nextstep software on Magnito/optical.

An Apple ][ LCD panel would be nice <grin!>

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, George Rachor wrote:

> I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard drives
> also of unknown condition.
> 
> Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> 
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> 
> 



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:20:35 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b218bf284f87@[10.1.115.1]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221819.15380D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler wrote:

> local router), a Quadra 610, and a Quadra 950; I had to suppress a chuckle
> (at myself), on visiting one of the links I found here (the Classic
> Computer show on the West Coast?) and seeing that the Q950 was included

Vintage Computer Festival.

> amongst the line of obsolete Macs. Oh, I know that it's obsolete, but it
> does my work quite well, for now, and I can't at the moment afford to
> upgrade to a PPC. (I paid big money for it, too.) The Q610 has a "classic"

Its not listed as being "obsolete", but it will be in the exhibition area.

Welcome.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:16:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221539.15380C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> Hmm brings up two questions:
> First: Is there already an Enterprise for display (Juhu Sa-a-am) ?

Nope.  I don't think I've ever even heard of this computer.

> Second: Will you be attending VCF ?

I think David said he might be.

> P.S.: Sam, answer quick, since I will do last Email-check in
>   about 2 hours.

I don't think this got to you in time but oh well, this will leave you
with more room on the plane back.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 12 00:33:06 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
References: <199809120503.BAA25509@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FA0792.9DE05B85@cnct.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
> Model III?  Are they the same thing?

If it is a 5,12,15,35 or 70Mb hard drive, it will work fine.  If it
is an 8.4 Mb drive, it will not.  If the drive case is about 18"
across, it is one of the former.  If the drive case is two or so
feet across, it is the latter [actually earlier] and is totally
incompatible.  As I recall, _all_ of the compatible drives had their
capacities labelled on the front of the drive -- it's been so long
that I forget whether the 8.4 drives were labeled with their size
or not.

Either way, salvage the the adapter card from the Model II, with the
cable and the connector that passes through the case.  Those I will
paying shipping plus a bit for untested.  And I'll accept the drives
-- if they're the 8.4 type, it is _critical_ to lock the heads
before shipping.

Oh, the primary and secondary drives are different, as the primary
contains the actual hard disk controller.  In either generation.
The board in the Model II is basically a bus adapter. 
> ----------
> > From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> > Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> >
> > I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> > The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> > the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
> drives
> > also of unknown condition.
> >
> > Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> > isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> >
> > =========================================================
> > George L. Rachor              george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> > Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> >

-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Sat Sep 12 00:40:33 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <35FA0792.9DE05B85@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911223943.13993A-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>

In this case they are 8.4 MByte drives and are about 18 inches across.

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> Jason Willgruber wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know if a TRS-80 Model II hard drive will work with a TRS-80
> > Model III?  Are they the same thing?
> 
> If it is a 5,12,15,35 or 70Mb hard drive, it will work fine.  If it
> is an 8.4 Mb drive, it will not.  If the drive case is about 18"
> across, it is one of the former.  If the drive case is two or so
> feet across, it is the latter [actually earlier] and is totally
> incompatible.  As I recall, _all_ of the compatible drives had their
> capacities labelled on the front of the drive -- it's been so long
> that I forget whether the 8.4 drives were labeled with their size
> or not.
> 
> Either way, salvage the the adapter card from the Model II, with the
> cable and the connector that passes through the case.  Those I will
> paying shipping plus a bit for untested.  And I'll accept the drives
> -- if they're the 8.4 type, it is _critical_ to lock the heads
> before shipping.
> 
> Oh, the primary and secondary drives are different, as the primary
> contains the actual hard disk controller.  In either generation.
> The board in the Model II is basically a bus adapter. 
> > ----------
> > > From: George Rachor <george@racsys.rt.rain.com>
> > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> > <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> > > Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
> > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 12:53 AM
> > >
> > > I have decided at long last to part with a Model 2 of unknown condition.
> > > The only thing I know is that the keyboard cable is slightly crushed at
> > > the keyboard connector end.  The System comes with a couple of hard
> > drives
> > > also of unknown condition.
> > >
> > > Please be prepared to pick this up in the Beaverton Oregon area as this
> > > isn't something that I'd really want to ship.
> > >
> > > =========================================================
> > > George L. Rachor              george@racsys.rt.rain.com
> > > Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
> > >
> 
> -- 
> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
> 
> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
> firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright
> 



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep 12 00:44:07 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980911221539.15380C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809111734.TAA00040@marina.fth.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <199809120439.XAA06042@trailingedge.com>

On 11 Sep 98, at 22:16, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Nope.  I don't think I've ever even heard of this computer.

They're pretty interesting Z-80 based machines from Europe.  You 
can see one and a link to a wealth of info including an emulator on 
the "Wanted" list on my site.  Try:

http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/wtxttemp.html?enterprise

to check it out.

> 
> > Second: Will you be attending VCF ?
> 
> I think David said he might be.

I want to but at the moment unless something big happens it looks 
like work is going to send me to a different convention on the 
opposite coast.  Right now if I can it will be a last minute trip.  If 
not, well there is always 3.0. :-\

May have to settle for the audio tapes, of course that's if Sam ever 
gets around to the ones from 1.0.  Hey Sam, how about video 
tapes of the event?


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jason at xio.com  Sat Sep 12 00:55:03 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980911152237.5d57ce66@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980911225503.00737d4c@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>

At 04:13 PM 9/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>IIRC, Navarone made a video interface for (at least) the Atari ST -- plug
>your camcorder/vcr into the cart, plug the cart into the computer, and
>capture images.  Kinda like the Snappy thing you can get these days.

I'm pretty sure it's not a video interface of any sort. It's some sort of
cartridge passthrough with a single button on it.

	-jrs

_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sat Sep 12 01:16:57 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: Murphy & Profiles
Message-ID: <199809120512.AAA06071@trailingedge.com>

What is this, Murphy strikes again?  I moved my Apple /// so I 
could open it all up and insert the new SoftCard ///.  I have 2 profile 
hard drives and placed one on its side beside some bookshelves 
while I worked on the ///.  A few minutes later I hear a crash and 
look over at the shelf.  The middle shelf had dropped down and 
dumped everything on top of the profile knocking it over and burying 
it.  These shelves have been doing just fine for over 5 years, why 
now?  At least the SoftCard is in and working fine.  I now have 
CP/M installed and working with the other profile.  I now only have 
one slot left open, what else is available for the ///?  As for the 
other profile, I guess it is still ok.  I've never used it and I'm not sure 
if I want to use it on my ///.  You see, it has a hand written label on 
the front which says the Lisa Office System (scratched out) and 
below that MacWorks 3.0 12/16/85.  I can't decide if I want to 
format it and use it on my /// or save it in case I ever get a Lisa.  
Any way to copy off anything on it without a Lisa?  Could the Lisa 
format be read from a ///?  Ok, it's a shot in the dark.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 02:05:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:35 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <199809120439.XAA06042@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980912000438.15380K-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> May have to settle for the audio tapes, of course that's if Sam ever 
> gets around to the ones from 1.0.  Hey Sam, how about video 
> tapes of the event?

Audio tapes for 1.0 and 2.0 will be available a few weeks after 2.0.  I'm
planning to film some segments of 2.0 to make a video.  Also, CNET and
ZDTV will be bringing camera crews, so you might catch some VCF 2.0
footage on future shows.  I'll make sure to notify everyone in advance
if/when they air.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From rhblake at bbtel.com  Sat Sep 12 02:27:39 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...
Message-ID: <35FA226A.C5E3706A@bbtel.com>

Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
port on your PC.

http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From foxvideo at wincom.net  Sat Sep 12 06:19:27 1998
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Sorry!
In-Reply-To: <35F9E549.5FBC@bright.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980912071927.00695a9c@mail.wincom.net>

At 11:06 PM 9/11/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Please excuse my mistake. I hit "reply" and so I sent some attached
>files to the entire mail list.
>
>--Alan
>
>
	Personally I was glad to get them.

					Regards

					Charlie Fox



From mark_k at iname.com  Sat Sep 12 07:46:36 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: VIC-20 -- no sound
Message-ID: <yam7559.1837.3966064@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
>Or maybe my TV is really weird. There's been an anomaly with the
>C64 for as long as I can remember, which is that when I use the
>video cable (the one that splits into three RCA's, one for video
>and two for sound) with the video-in jacks on the TV, I get a nice,
>sharp, black and white display, no color.

The C64 provides composite video, luminance, chrominance and audio on its DIN
connector.

The luminance and chrominance signals are what is nowadays known as S-video or
Y/C. The luminance is the brightness information (i.e., a monochrome video
signal), the chrominance is the colour information. By having the two signals
on separate wires rather than mixing them, picture quality is improved over
composite video.

Many modern TVs have S-video inputs; a 4-pin mini-DIN socket is used for this.
Commodore monitors use two phono sockets, marked L and C. It sounds like you
are using a cable designed for connecting a C64 to a Commodore monitor. This
will not directly work with your TV's composite video input. As you have found,
the best you can do is to get a monochrome picture by connecting the luminance
signal.

To get the best possible picture quality, buy a lead that has two phono sockets
on one end, and an S-video 4-pin mini-DIN connector on the other. You would
connect this to the L and C jacks of your C64 video lead, and the S-video port
on your TV. However, you may have trouble finding a ready-made lead like this;
perhaps building one yourself will be quicker.

If your TV does not have an S-video input, you'll need to get another lead that
uses the C64's composite video output instead. An A/V lead for the Sega Mega
Drive/Genesis 1 console *may* work.



>If I use the composite port and a TV/game modulator box, I get (cruddy) color.

I think you mean using the RF output and a TV signal switch (as supplied with
most game consoles), not a modulator.


-- Mark



From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Sat Sep 12 08:31:58 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: New? Find
In-Reply-To: <35F9FBCC.47705A54@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Sep 12, 98 00:42:52 am
Message-ID: <199809121331.JAA29071@shell.monmouth.com>

> > Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> A couple years back, when we were having part of the attic finished,
> the building inspector noticed the number of computers and tried for
> a bribe based on his (incorrect at the time) assumption that we must
> be running a business out of the house.  Lisa went to high school
> with the jerk.  That part was cleared up no problem.  (The bribe to
> get the building permit was merely the way these things are done here
> in Hudson County, the scale is relatively consistent).
> 
> Gods, but I want to get out of this hellhole and move to Wyoming.

Well, that's Hudson County for you.  I won't defend that at all.
It's not representative of the rest of the state though.  Move.
Anything North of I-287 is hell.

Bill

(Happy in Central New Jersey where that kind of @$#%^&* wouldn't be
tolerated).

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From allisonp at world.std.com  Sat Sep 12 08:36:04 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: MX test...
Message-ID: <199809121336.AA13697@world.std.com>


< > Can you guys ack this please?
< > 
< > If it works, I've taught VAX/VMS to speak SMTP...

Whoa!  You got my attention... as they say tell me more being I have a 
upwards of 7 of them running here. 

Allison



From bwit at pobox.com  Sat Sep 12 09:00:22 1998
From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Need help with TRS-80 Hard Drive
Message-ID: <01BDDE2B.C8163320.bwit@pobox.com>

Hello.

I have a "TRS-80 Five Meg Disk System" model 26-1130 that I'd like to use with a Model 4D.
The hard drive seems to power up fine but I have no cables to connect it to the Mod4.  In 
addition, the back of the hard drive appears to have a connector missing.  On the back of the
drive cabinet I see the following:

	Computer In:  empty opening, no cover
	Control Out: 34 pin male connector
	Data Out A: empty, metal cover over opening
	Data Out B: empty, metal cover over opening
	Data Out C: empty, metal cover over opening

Opening the drive case shows no obvious connector where a missing cable might attach.

If anyone can assist with information and/or parts please let me know.

TIA,
Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Withers                                                  Do or do not, there is no try.
bwit@pobox.com                                                                          Yoda
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 12 09:23:47 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Apple Computer Parts
Message-ID: <35FA83F3.6C00@bright.net>

It is my turn to clean out my basement.

Item                                      Quanity
------------------------------------      -------
Digicard, Network Controller Card         7
Tymac, PPC-100 Tackler                    2
Digicard, Modem                           2
Apple Monitor /// Model #A3M0039          1
Apple Disk Drive ][ Model #A2M0003        3
Apple Unidisk Model #A9M0104              1
Apple ][e (missing 2 keys on keyboard)    1
Apple ][ Plus                             2

If you are interested in any of these items please make an offer. I've
never used an Apple system. I collected these parts to build one
complete system but never got around to it. I don't know what this stuff
is worth. I hope someone out there can put this stuff to good use. No
reasonable offer will be refused.

--Alan


From oajones at bright.net  Sat Sep 12 09:26:08 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tandy 1400 HD
Message-ID: <35FA8480.7DCA@bright.net>

I have a Tandy 1400 HD collecting dust in my basement. It has a power
supply problem and also the battery will need to be replaced. Perhaps
someone out there could use this for parts if nothing else. I am asking
$25 plus shipping charges. I have the books for it and the original
packing box.

--Alan


From heavy at ctesc.net  Sat Sep 12 10:23:07 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Recent findings
In-Reply-To: <199809120315.XAA10363@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <v04011701b22036a5cdba@[10.1.115.23]>

>> Also, I got a Powerbook 140, which needs work on the screen, but
otherwise
>> seems (afaik) okay.  Anyone know how to remove the screen on this?

On the inside face, below the screen, there are two plastic pug; under
those, there are the star-shaped screws that Apple is fond of, but they are
really small, like #6 or #8. I had to really look for those bits. I believe
you also have to remove the keyboard and other things in order to separate
the screen assembly; it's been awhile.

>> Along with that was a Powerbook Duo 230 & 280, weird connectors for the
>> power supply; looks like an RCA jack.  Anyone know what voltage etc, and
>> would an RCA plug work?
>>
An RCA plug will not work unless they have types that I have never seen. I
actually tried to modify an RCA plug once, for that machine. The plus and
minus are both on the tip of the thing, and the external part of what looks
like an RCA plug is the frame ground. I have no idea where they found that
part. Your best bet is shopping for a Duo power supply, I've seen them
recently on eBay, and they are not expensive. I have an extra one, BTW.
Those supplies are neat, travel-ready; I think they work on anything from
about 90v to 250v input. Not spot-on about voltage out, but 12.5v should
work. You can also get a cigar lighter power supply for those models.

 Poor ascii art:
(-+?)(-+?)(frame grnd)
  |  |  --- ---'
<===|======|
        ---

I have a PB Duo 280c, which works fine, except that the active-matrix color
screen is broken. I also have a dock for it, so use it as a desktop
machine. This doesn't work for me, because I need it for carrying. Anyone
know how to find replacement screens for this model, that don't cost more
than the machine is worth? Either a color or grey-scale would do, thanks.

I also have a PB 140. I use a pencil eraser to clean the little ribbon
ends, but you probably already know that trick. -Jim
      "Recycleable" is the politically-correct word for "Trash"
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sat Sep 12 11:54:28 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: HP 3000s avail in CA.
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809120949.A16527-0100000@netcom3>


  Hello ListMembers..


  I have available for Immediate Adoption the following
Hewlett Packard stuff:

2 3000 systems and a 9144 backup device in one cabinet.
2 7914 hard drive units (one damaged mechanically)
1 2563a printer in very nice shape (serial I/O)

  These Items are in Malibu, CA and are free for the taking. I would 
prefer not to split up the load unless you are talking significant 
bux or trade for something I need Real Bad: (VAX 11/750 system; TE16 
w/formatter card for Unibus; Kennedy 9300 or vacuum door from same; 
MINC-11 cards; etc.)

  Due to weight and size, these things are not shippable. I can be 
bribed to deliver them in the SoCal area, but it would be Better if 
you came with a small truck or minivan and rescued them. Also, work 
logistics pretty much dictate that it must be a weekend rescue.

  Otherwise....     i don't wanna think about it   :(

  Please consider giving these lonely orphans the security and 
happiness of a loving home and some 110vac to munch on. I need the 
space for more DEC stuff.  Like that 11/750 I *know* you're hiding.

  Hint: I'll be home all weekend.........

Cheers

John



From red at bears.org  Sat Sep 12 12:47:35 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809121341070.28443-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, George Rachor wrote:

> I'm not really looking for $$$ for these.  I'm looking to trade for
> something smaller.  I've just aquired an original Next cube and need
> Nextstep software on Magnito/optical.

I've got copies of NEXTSTEP on MO through version 3.0 and while I haven't
any spare copies, I do have a few spare MOs.

What version were you looking for? I'd recommend 2.11 if it's an '030
cube.

ok
r.



From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 12 16:29:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809121341070.28443-100000@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
exactly like the one in the brochure:
	http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/vixen.htm
For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the
floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
starts off with EXP.

Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has
one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?

-- Doug



From donm at cts.com  Sat Sep 12 16:43:25 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980912144111.29460B-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
> things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
> exactly like the one in the brochure:
> 	http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/vixen.htm
> For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the

They were officially known as the Osborne 4.

> floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
> horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
> starts off with EXP.

The drives orientation is nonstandard.  Can't comment on the S/N.
 
> Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has

I think that is nonstandard also.
						 - don

> one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?
> 
> -- Doug
> 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Sep 12 15:50:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809120100.VAA11942@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Sep 11, 98 09:00:44 pm
Message-ID: <m0zHwcq-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sat Sep 12 17:36:24 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980912144111.29460B-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Don Maslin wrote:

> They were officially known as the Osborne 4.

Mine only says OSBORNE.  I suspect mine has a smaller display than the
production model -- it looks like a 5" diag.  If anybody else thinks they
have this same version, please let me know.  Otherwise, I'll start
bragging about it on my web page as the only surviving specimen!

OK, you twisted my arm, here are a couple of pix:
	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/osborne/vixen1.jpg
	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/osborne/vixen2.jpg

-- Doug



From thomas100 at home.com  Sat Sep 12 19:44:17 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com>
Message-ID: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

The most alarming thing I used to enjoy about an 030 cube is that  
you can boot and run NeXTStep, a Windows-NT counterpart, in 4  
megabytes of RAM.

Not that you'd want to... though you can set one up as a stable  
lightweight network file server and such.  I ran Windows Networking  
(Samba), Columbia Appletalk, NFS and web server, perl and CGI  
effectively on a 16 mb machine for quite awhile.  There are also  
various cron-based things you can do with the DSP chip and audio that  
take up only moderate amounts CPU bandwidth that I did.  All in all  
these machines are a heck of a lot of fun not only as a hobbyist  
machine but also in various useful roles.

While my TRS-80 Model 16 sits in the corner, the NeXT machines both  
at office and at home are working hard and are on the net.

And it looks like I'll be picking up another cube on Monday.
Joy of joys!  YIPPEEEE!

BTW... about hooking older machines to the net.  I've heard that  
someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.

Thomas


From gram at cnct.com  Sat Sep 12 19:11:55 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Need help with TRS-80 Hard Drive
References: <01BDDE2B.C8163320.bwit@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <35FB0DCB.4FF7BE53@cnct.com>

Bob Withers wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I have a "TRS-80 Five Meg Disk System" model 26-1130 that I'd like to use with a Model 4D.
> The hard drive seems to power up fine but I have no cables to connect it to the Mod4.  In
> addition, the back of the hard drive appears to have a connector missing.  On the back of the
> drive cabinet I see the following:
> 
>         Computer In:  empty opening, no cover
>         Control Out: 34 pin male connector
>         Data Out A: empty, metal cover over opening
>         Data Out B: empty, metal cover over opening
>         Data Out C: empty, metal cover over opening
> 
> Opening the drive case shows no obvious connector where a missing cable might attach.
> 
> If anyone can assist with information and/or parts please let me know.

The cable is a piece of cake to build.  Straight through from the
edge connector under the back of the 4D to the header connector
labeled "Computer In".  The other connectors on the back of the
drive are for connecting up to three additional drives to the
controller built into the one you have.  (The short cables from the
controller to the empty data out cutouts came with the secondary
drives.  They too are easy to fabricate.)

The connector under the 4D _should_ be labeled expansion bus or
something like that -- I never did much with the 4D, they came out
about the time I left the company.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From fmc at reanimators.org  Sat Sep 12 19:27:05 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:36:24 -0500 (CDT)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <199809130027.RAA11175@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Doug Yowza <yowza@yowza.com> wrote:
> Mine only says OSBORNE.  I suspect mine has a smaller display than the
> production model -- it looks like a 5" diag.  If anybody else thinks they
> have this same version, please let me know.  Otherwise, I'll start
> bragging about it on my web page as the only surviving specimen!

That is a find.  If you can find the Kilobaud that has the photos of
Adam Osborne showing off the Vixen, you will note that the one he is
showing is configured like that.

-Frank McConnell


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sat Sep 12 20:55:43 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Osborne Vixen
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912162012.3625B-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980912184040.15433A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> An Osborne Vixen followed me home today.  Can somebody familiar with these
> things tell me if I have a *RARE* *VALUABLE* prototype?  It doesn't look
> exactly like the one in the brochure:

I went downstairs to compare mine, saw how much of a hassle it would be to
dig it out, then turned around and headed right back upstairs.

> For one thing, it doesn't actually say Vixen on it anywhere (except on the
> floppy in the drive), for another the floppy drives are arranged
> horizontally rather than vertically, and for yet another the serial number
> starts off with EXP.

I'm pretty certain mine said "Vixen".

Ok, my curiousity getting the best of me, I went downstairs and, risking
great bodily injury and pulling muscles, I managed to dig out my Vixen
while nearly destroying multiple machines in the process.

> Does anybody know if the production version included a GPIB port (mine has
> one).  I don't suppose anybody would like to offer me Vixen manuals, eh?

Mine has the GPIB port.  On the front, underneath the screen, mine has a
badge that say "O4 Vixen".  My drives are vertically oriented.  My serial
number is "FR000 001632 with the "FR000" being part of the label and the
"001632" being stamped on.

I would say it would be a reasonable assumption that you have an early
prototype.  Your case must be sufficiently different as I can't see
how you could rotate the drives horizontally on this.  What is the rest of
the serial number?

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From jhfine at idirect.com  Sat Sep 12 23:14:20 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Available: PC Magazine
References: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]>
Message-ID: <35FB469C.284F3BDB@idirect.com>

Hi  Collectors,

I have to start cleaning things and the most obvious
right now are about 6 feet of PC Magazine from
about 1988 to 1994.

I also will be putting a TRS 80 Model III with 2 floppy
drives in the pot.

Not finally - only the beginning, there is a lot of DEC
QBus stuff I must sort through.

If any of this is worth anything, is there anything that
is worth trading?  Like some DEC Qbus boards
or a PC tape drive for a W95 system - I need tape
backup.

Even boxes of floppies - 3 1/2" HD 1.44 MBytes
or 5 1/4" DSDD 360 KBytes
or 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MBytes
or Zip Cartridges 100 MBytes

The last thing I want to see is for the stuff to go in a
dumpster.

I am in Toronto.  Magazines are very heavy and local
pickup would be best.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine



From spc at armigeron.com  Sat Sep 12 21:14:01 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com> from "Thomas Pfaff" at Sep 12, 98 05:44:17 pm
Message-ID: <199809130214.WAA20500@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Thomas Pfaff once stated:
> 
> BTW... about hooking older machines to the net.  I've heard that  
> someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
> Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
> up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.

  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the C-64
(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP and
ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and uncompressed
SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under UNIX)
version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I think UDP
stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable by
definition if I recall correctly).

  -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
	6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
	have two Tandy 6000s ... )





From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 01:20:27 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: UDP on 1970's micros  [was Re: NeXT]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com> from "Thomas Pfaff" at Sep 12, 98 05:44:17 pm
Message-ID: <199809130617.WAA03186@next.ireadyco.com>

The neat thing about using a PIC chip is that it's external... so  
with a little extra logic you can route it through either a parallel  
or serial port.

UDP is User Datagram Protocol... it's good enough that you can write  
simple clients and servers to transfer data.  Many servers can be  
switched from TCP to UDP services on any unix machine or a tiny  
daemon can be written to do the routing.  So you could access a web  
server on the net via a TRS-80 this way.

Of course it would be nice to have full TCP/IP available but it's  
considerably more work.
There is a stack for the C64.  I'd like something that is portable,  
a widget that plugs on the back of a variety of early PCs.  Something  
like a box with a Z180 board, with serial and ethernet on board  
would be very nice for a full network implementation.

Ironically the upstart company I helped "startup" does all of this  
in a gate level implementation [no processor required] but it's  
available only as an embeddable logic core for integration into  
things like cellular phones and kids toys.

Anyway, UDP is good enough as long as you do checksums on the data  
that comes through.  Obviously you couldn't run a web server using  
UDP very well.  TCP/IP would be more fun because as an exercise you  
could host a web server on computers from the 1970's.

Also if you did TCP/IP, IP, ARP and PPP all in software on a 1970's  
micro you probably couldn't do a whole lot else in RAM.  However, a  
dedicated embedded SBC between your
Trs-80 and your Sun Sparcstation could allow your Trs-80 to do quite  
a bit and would simplify data transfers to and from the net, etc.   
It could be made simple too... type in a small BASIC program to  
program your IP address and bootstrap your network connection.  It  
could be that easy [no floppies required].

I mentioned the PIC controller with UDP first because they are small  
and egg-stremely cheap.

Thomas


Begin forwarded message:


  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the C-64
(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP and
ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and uncompressed
SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under UNIX)
version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I  
think UDP
stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable by
definition if I recall correctly).



From gram at cnct.com  Sun Sep 13 00:54:05 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
References: <199809130214.WAA20500@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: <35FB5DFD.D0179CF9@cnct.com>

Captain Napalm wrote:

>   -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
>         6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
>         have two Tandy 6000s ... )

Not especially common, not especially rare.  Trouble is, the
software for the Model II (there were never Xenix drivers for
Arcnet for the Tandy 6000) is incompatible with anybody else's
Arcnet software, even Tandy's Vianet which connected Tandy and
other PCs in a peer-to-peer network (though at least the Tandy
2000 got in on that one).  An Arcnet card in a Model 2 or 12
or in a 16 or 6000 in Z-80 mode will only talk to others of its
own kind.  And Ghod only knows where any copies of the server
software might be (Model 2 Arcnet was _not_ peer-to-peer).

About the best way to connect a Tandy 68k Xenix system to the
world is through a serial link to a Linux box.  As I've done.
Hopefully when I finally have a permanent link from my Linux
communication server to the Internet, it will be possible for
folks to login to my 6000HD (and one of my AT&T 7300s) from a
secured telnet session to Linux and the old cu command (or
maybe minicom).

I suppose it might be possible to somehow port slip to Tandy
Xenix.  I am not capable of doing so, however.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 13 08:44:43 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
Message-ID: <19980913134444.14361.qmail@hotmail.com>





So, let's say this were ported to a C128 or an upgraded 64. Would this
allow one to access the 'net?
As for ARCnet cards, yes, they're quite common in corporate and
government places, along with token ring (I believe IBM supported
these two, but not ethernet). I may have a couple.
>> someone has crammed UDP, IP and ARP into a tiny PIC microcontroller.   
>> Does anyone know anything about this?  I would kind of like to set  
>> up my Trs-80 Mod 4 on the net for various reasons.
>
>  I've heard rumors of IP (not TCP/IP, just IP) being written for the 
C-64
>(along with PPP or SLIP I assume).  Apparently, the port only had IP 
and
>ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol---at the same layer as IP) as
>nothing else could fit in 64k.  IP isn't that difficult (and 
uncompressed
>SLIP is pretty easy as well).  UDP is just a user accessable (under 
UNIX)
>version (more or less) of IP (unreliable datagram protocol, but I think 
UDP
>stands for User Datagram Protocol, as a datagram protocol is unreliable 
by
>definition if I recall correctly).
>
>  -spc (Quick question:  how common are ARCNET cards for PCs and Tandy
>	6000s?  I know there are Linux drivers for ARCNET cards, and I
>	have two Tandy 6000s ... )
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 10:16:56 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: RE-PC Finds
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913082535.kyrrin@jps.net>

        For those in or near the Seattle area, RE-PC has turned up some
pretty cool stuff.

        First, some intriguing VMEBus systems. From what I can tell,
they were made by Charles River Data Systems and, although they may not
be terribly useful as a system in their current state, the VME backplane
is very much an industry standard and can be adapted to just about any
VME cards you might want to plug into it.

        They also have a pile of Cipher 9-track tape drives. These are
the front-loading 880 series, 1600/3200 density, Pertec interface. I've
looked over several of them, and most look like they've had barely any
use at all (I picked one up yesterday to repair another I already have).

        And, if you want a rack to put such goodies into, they've got a
blortload of retired five-foot high Sun racks. Although wider on the
outside than the norm, all appear to be standard 19" on the inside
rails. Just about all of 'em are in clean shape, and going for around
$50 per.

        I think, last time I looked, they wanted no more than $20/unit
for the tape drives, and I don't think the VME systems would be horribly
expensive either. If interested, give a call to the Tukwila store at
(206) 575-8737. Ask for Eric Meiney, tell him I referred you, and you're
off and running.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 08:16:56, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 13:00:40 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
Message-ID: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>

For anyone in the Portland area I just met a most interesting Computer
Recycler.  Unlike the standard Horror stories I hear, he's working out of
an apartment complex he apparently runs.  He's got a ton of stuff
squirreled away, and would rather sell to people that will reuse it, but if
that doesn't work out, or if he doesn't think he can resell it, it gets
recycled.

Stuff I saw:
	IBM System III Model 50
	A very interesting little Tek terminal on it's own stand
	A lot of Apollo Domain
	A lot of HP stuff including an interesting rack mounted system with,
		a 9-track drive.
	Sun stuff (I've got a friend that bought a complete Sparc 10 system
from
	him)
	More PC stuff than you can shake a stick a
	Some NeXT stuff (which I got most or all of)

Stuff I got:
	Some tape drives, mostly DAT and an old 8mm (think I cleaned him
out of
		DAT
	Toshba CD-ROM (My Alpha loves it, and the DAT I hooked up)
	NeXT B&W Turbo slab system/32Mb RAM/1Gb HD/keyboard/mouse/monitor
		haven't tried it yet, so no idea how it works.  Also no
idea if
		it has an OS on it
	NeXT MO drive

I let him know that there are people looking for a lot of the stuff he
didn't seem to think anyone would want.  A good example being Amiga and
Atari systems.  I've also asked him to let me know when any DEC stuff shows
up.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Sun Sep 13 12:17:23 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
References: <199809130702.AAA22462@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35FBFE24.EAE70ED@goldrush.com>

> Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...

 
> Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
> hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
> port on your PC.
> 
> http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html

There has been some discussion on this in the CBM Hacker's maillist about the
newer parallel ports not being able to handle the voltage levels used by the
Commodore's IEC.  Here is a copy of one of the latest in the chain:

> Subject: Re: New X1541 standard
>    From: "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> 
> Hi Ruud,
> 
> >New X1541-cable,
> >
> >A lot of people happily use the X1541-cable to connect their PC with their
> >C= equipment. I was one of them until one day my PC started to smoke. I
> >opened my PC and found out that my I/O-card had gone to the moon. From that
> >day on I used X1541 only in combination with an old-fashion all-TTL-ICs
> >card and was happy again.
> 
> Happily I gone into that conclusion in very early time :-)
> 
> >When soldering the cable I instantly knew there was something fishy about
> >it because I knew the lines of the IEC-bus were used to transport signals
> >in two directions while the LPT-port had no line capable of doing this.
> 
> And the authors of X1541 supported programs doesn't mention risk came with it.
> 
> >The problem is that more and more users, including myself, have mother-
> >boards with an onboard LPT-port and no hair on my head thinks of it using
> >this port for things like X1541. It is easy to say to buy an extra card for
> >this purpose but I also have no confidence in these as they are fitted with
> >VLSI-chips as my I/O-card was.
> 
> >The hardware:
> >
> >There are two directions to go:
> >1) using transistors, resistors etc.
> >2) using TTL ICs
> 
> Or
> 
>  3) Use resistors in range 100-200 Ohms, so risk could be minimized (but not
>     resolved) and programs should support that little modification :-).
> 
> >Another idea is to use pin 10, Acknowledge, as input for the ATN-signal
> >because this input is capable of generating an interrupt. This can be an
> >advantage when using the PC as diskdrive for an C64.
> 
> I can remember that some cards won't like correctly generate interrupts.
> 
> >Extra idea:
> >
> >The datalines of LPT-port are not used. How about connecting them to the
> >userport for 8 bit parallel transfers?
> 
> I already connected and works perfectly.
> 
> >For the old ports this can only be used for reading but for bidirectional
> >ports.... (And I rebuild an old one :-) )
> 
> Done. What about my version?
> 
>  http://members.tripod.com/~Frank_Kontros/easyport/cable.gif
> 
> OK! Needs bi-directional port, but simple.
> 
> >The consequence is that to use this feature the kernal has to be changed.
> 
> Changed successfully. Not completed, but the whole serial protocol emulated by
> parallel way, fastload/save/verify, DOS WEDGE, F-keys.
> 
> >Yvo Nelemans wrote Server64 and he wrote it in Turbo Pascal :-). He stopped
> >with the devellopment and I have decided to resume with this project after
> >getting his permission. Server64 is meant to use the PC as diskdrive for
> >the C64. Unfortunally it also is as slow as a standard diskdrive in
> >combination with a standard C64.
> 
> I wrote it in asm, so you can compare the speedz. Just only 10 native mode drives
> emulated and a 256K REU, but in future ... anything possible.
> 
> >My questions to you are:
> >1) does anybody have detailed protocol specifications of a fastloader only
> >using the IEC-cable (example EXOS V3) and/or its sourcecodes?
> >2) the same for a parallel fastloader (like SpeedDos)?
> 
> In my opininon there are no fastloader specifications at all. All transfer
> operations should be maximally synchronized. There are general rules, but
> no specifications. Isn't you meant the burst protocol specifications, used
> in 1571/81 drives?
> 
> Regards,
> Frank

Thought I should pass it along.  :)

P.S. Subscription info for CBM Hackers list is on my web-page - see link below.
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 12:25:09 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913102918.kyrrin@jps.net>

        While at RE-PC in Seattle yesterday, I saw that they're working
on getting a complete color NeXT system ready to sell. As near as I can
tell, this is the 'Pizza Box' configuration with 32 megs RAM. I don't
know what size hard drive it has as it had been taken home by one of
the guys who was going to load the NeXT OS on it.

        If interested, give a call to the Seattle store at (206)
623-9151. Ask for Maurice or Jeff and tell them I referred you.

        Best of luck!


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 10:25:09, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Sun Sep 13 12:40:45 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: C64
References: <199809130702.AAA22462@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <35FC039E.48CA1FAE@goldrush.com>

> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Subject: Re: C64 video
> 
> > 
> > I tested the three C64s i got and none are getting video on a known working
> > composite monitor. im also not getting a beep when i try ^G (assuming a
> > speaker  is inside the computer) do these systems need an rf modulator or
> > require a tv?

Control-G Does not produce any noise on the 64.  There are no sound routines
(except to clear the SID registers at start-up) in the 64 ROMs (I think they
were rushed on putting the 64 to market; later they released Super Expander
and Simon's BASIC which offered sound commands.)  I usually use a game
cartridge to check the 64's sound, video and joystick ports.  Jumpman Junior
seems to be my favored one (mainly because it does not rely on much of the
KERNAL/BASIC ROMs in it's operation.)

And yes, the Genesis A/V cable is compatible with the 64 (I've used the same
cable on both units).
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From djenner at halcyon.com  Sun Sep 13 13:18:05 1998
From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
Message-ID: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>

I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
one card with:
 - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
 - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
 - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
 - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.

The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.

Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
a card?

Thanks,
Dave


From kozmik at wave.home.com  Sun Sep 13 14:00:49 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
In-Reply-To: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
References: <199809120315.XAA10377@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FC16612EE.F652KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:09:04 -0400
"Jason Willgruber" <roblwill@usaor.net> wrote:

> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm looking for an old IBM or Compaq Portable (or any other that the
> motherboard can be replaced with a standard one (especially the IBM).  I'm
> looking for a fairly speedy portable, because of the program that I use
> (needs a 486).I have an old 486/66 board that I can use, but I don't feel
> like spending $700 for a portable case w/display.  I'd be willing to trade
> a VGA or an EGA monitor for it, or be willing to pay a fair (ly low)  price
> (since I won't be using much of the guts, anyway.  
>

I own an old P70, which is a 386-20 based lunchbox. If this is what you
were referring to, I don't think you'll be able to change this into
anything other then what it is. I have replaced the 386 with a TI486slc
chip, but thats all I have been able to do with it.

This is unless you can figure out a way to drive the gas plasma vga
screen. Then you could probably put in another motherboard. 

A better thing to do would be to find the rarer P75 (486 based), and
then put a pentium overdrive in there. This will be expensive though,
since P75's are rare, and MCA cards are also rare and because of this
they all can be expensive.

Please ignore this message if you were talking about those REALLY large 
fullsize portables, that had crt in them.

I got my P70 for $100 (canadian), and was offered one with a dead HD for
$50....so that should give you a ball park on price. 

Oh if you know of a way to drive the proprietary gas plasma screen,
please tell me, I'd love to upgrade mine. 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
    


From kozmik at wave.home.com  Sun Sep 13 14:10:50 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980911221850.13925D-100000@racsys.rt.rain.com> <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <35FC18BA3C9.F653KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Sat, 12 Sep 98 17:44:17 -0700
Thomas Pfaff <thomas100@home.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The most alarming thing I used to enjoy about an 030 cube is that  
> you can boot and run NeXTStep, a Windows-NT counterpart, in 4  
> megabytes of RAM.
>

I missed alot of this thread, but could you please explain how the
Nextstep operating system is related to NT? 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Sun Sep 13 14:43:10 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Sorcerer Serial Number Decode
Message-ID: <199809131838.NAA07277@trailingedge.com>

While digging through my Exidy Sorcerer doc, I noticed a little 
paragraph in the technical manul which tells how to read the 
Sorcerer's serial number.  I'm sending this in case other Exidy 
owners want to check their systems.

---QUOTE---
"The first five digits of the serial number give the date of 
manufacturer. The next several digits are specific to the individual 
unit, and then, if you have a Sorcerer 2, there are the letters II. 
Next comes the voltage designation.  For example, serial number 
10299 528 II 220V indicates a Sorcerer 2, manufactured on 
10/29/79, unit number 528, of 220 volts."
---END QUOTE---

Mine is 03070 0085 110v so made on 03/07/80 I guess.  Funny 
thing is mine doesn't have the II to indicate it is a Sorcerer 2 but all 
the doc and looking at the mobo inside seems to indicate it is a 2.  
Wonder if the original owner swapped it at some point?  It does list 
a model number of DP1000-2.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jason at xio.com  Sun Sep 13 14:45:28 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
In-Reply-To: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>


I had a multi-I/o card that did 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 game, SuperVGA
(Cirrus Logic 5424 I think), IDE and floppy all on one card. But it was a
VLB card. I used it in my 486SLC I had at the time. I don't remember who
made it. It was "generic" -- no name printed on the card, and all of the
large number of jumpers where labelled "JPx" so it was quite difficult to
reconfigure without the manual.

	-jrs

At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
>one card with:
> - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
> - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
> - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
> - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.
>
>The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
>would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
>and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.
>
>Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
>I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
>a card?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon


From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 17:11:30 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT  [was Re: Radio Shack Model ][ available (Portland Oregon)]
In-Reply-To: <199809130041.QAA02972@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <199809132208.OAA03755@next.ireadyco.com>

Hi,

You didn't miss that much.

Windows NT was essentially patterned after NeXTStep, though it still  
has a way to go in order to catch up.  Assuming you believe that  
dynamic binding is an inevitable innovation and DLLs are the  
brain-dead broken mess they are, NT still has a long way to go to  
catch up to where NeXTStep was.  There are other issues as well that  
push NT back to the cro-magon era, but dynamic binding is the issue  
that always sticks in my head since it yields overall improvements in  
application performance and reliability at the same time.

Thomas


----

_someone said:_

I missed alot of this thread, but could you please explain how the
Nextstep operating system is related to NT?

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm





From heavy at ctesc.net  Sun Sep 13 16:14:00 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seattle.wa.us>
References: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <v04011707b221e3d3bce0@[10.1.115.9]>

I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone
knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, I'd
appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim

COMPUTER HAIKU

Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced
error messages in haiku...


	A file that big?
	It might be very useful.
	But now it is gone.


	The Web site you seek
	cannot be located but
	endless others exist.


	Chaos reigns within.
	Reflect, repent, and reboot.
	Order shall return.


	ABORTED effort:
	Close all that you have.
	You ask far too much.


	First snow, then silence.
	This thousand dollar screen dies
	so beautifully.


	With searching comes loss
	and the presence of absence:
	"My Novel" not found.


	The Tao that is seen
	Is not the true Tao, until
	You bring fresh toner.


	Windows NT crashed.
	I am the Blue Screen of Death.
	No one hears your screams.


	Stay the patient course
	Of little worth is your ire
	The network is down


	A crash reduces
	your expensive computer
	to a simple stone.


	Yesterday it worked
	Today it is not working
	Windows is like that


	Three things are certain:
	Death, taxes, and lost data.
	Guess which has occurred.


	You step in the stream,
	but the water has moved on.
	This page is not here.


	Out of memory.
	We wish to hold the whole sky,
	But we never will.


	Having been erased,
	The document you're seeking
	Must now be retyped.


	Rather than a beep
	Or a rude error message,
	These words: "File not found." >


	Serious error.
	All shortcuts have disappeared.
	Screen. Mind. Both are blank.


Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen
(tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or
just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I
appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to
another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>
             "I wish I was deep, instead of just macho."
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From thomas100 at home.com  Sun Sep 13 17:17:59 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
Message-ID: <199809132215.OAA03763@next.ireadyco.com>

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From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 13 17:12:25 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: WTB: Portable
In-Reply-To: <35FC16612EE.F652KOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913170551.30472C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Dominique Cormann wrote:

> A better thing to do would be to find the rarer P75 (486 based), and
> then put a pentium overdrive in there. This will be expensive though,
> since P75's are rare, and MCA cards are also rare and because of this
> they all can be expensive.

I just brought home two of the rare P75's (aka 8573-161) yesterday.  I'm
willing to trade one of them away for something equally as rare and
interesting.  These are nice usable vintage boxen.  I think the 8573 was
intro'd in 1990 (OK, not quite 10 years old), has a gas plasma display,
built-in SCSI, and two full-length + 2 1/2-length MCA slots.  I think they
sold for close to $10K when new, which explains their rarity.

-- Doug




From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 17:28:10 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809131513.A23751-0100000@netcom5>


  This is an open letter to my Northern Brother-in-Scrap, Bruce 
Lane, 'cause I know he's done this...  and I thought maybe others 
will have (or soon have) these questions too...

   Okay..  I realize now that all of my 20+ years of computer 
experience has been on disk-based systems... and I am having some 
fundamental-concept problems in understanding the basics of Tape, as 
it is implemented under VMS (and maybe RT-11 too, I'll burn that 
bridge when I get to it).

   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 
have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals 
VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and 
allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted, 
allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made 
a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created 
a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to 
the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the 
HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get 
are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.

  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
the directories are empty when I copy them back...

  I am lacking in the basic understanding of how the tape system 
works, so I thought to ask my Firends and Listmembers.


  Cheers

John



From william at ans.net  Sun Sep 13 18:36:55 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193328.8430A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> 	IBM System III Model 50

I know of no S/3 model 50 - just the 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 15.

Any chance you could describe this machine? S/3s tend to be rather big -
but then they really are just stripped down S/360s.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net




From william at ans.net  Sun Sep 13 18:45:56 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: IBM System 34 and 36 questions
In-Reply-To: <199809110325.DAA07254@cyber2.servtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193911.8430C-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> 220 volts, single phase is the power needed. Don't think they can be set to
> 115v. but I could check the hardware manual I got stashed in some box
> around here that is not yet unpacked. 
> 
> The 3262's are however on wheels which would make moving somewhat easier.
> Mr. Donzelli is one of the listmembers who knows IBM Big Iron. He might
> chime-in on the other components.

Well, I was not part of either of the RCS/RI System 3x moving parties.
Sorry.

Looking at the S/34 however, it looks like taking heavy bits out might
just be a real pain in the butt.

One interesting chunk of trivia is that IBM actually put some thought into
deciding how big to make these machines. They had their engineers make the
box so it could be moved around inside "standard" office building
elevators, as they did not want to screw themselves out of sales just
because of a few inches.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net 



From wpe101 at banet.net  Sun Sep 13 19:10:33 1998
From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
References: <Pine.3.89.9809131513.A23751-0100000@netcom5>
Message-ID: <35FC5EF8.D37A27ED@banet.net>

Distant memory time... As far as copying files to the tape, did you
initialize it prior to MOUNTing it?
$ INIT MSA0: TEST      !TEST being the volume name assigned to the tape.

$ MOUNT MSA0: TEST    !tape "mounts", and is given the logical name
"TEST".
$ COPY DUA0:[MYDIRECTORY]FILENAME.EXT TEST:FILENAME.EXT  !file spec is
an example.......

Allison, PLEASE correct me on this!!!!!!

If memory serves me, if you do a DIR of TEST: you should see your file
in the [0,0] directory.
I think to preserve the directory structure, you have to mount the tape
/FOREIGN, and use
"BACKUP".
I haven't done this for about 5 years, so, "your mileage may vary"..
Hope this helps.. As far as
RT-11, sorry... Don't have my books handy, and I know the list'll have
the answer long before
I find them...


Will




John Lawson wrote:

>   This is an open letter to my Northern Brother-in-Scrap, Bruce
> Lane, 'cause I know he's done this...  and I thought maybe others
> will have (or soon have) these questions too...
>
>    Okay..  I realize now that all of my 20+ years of computer
> experience has been on disk-based systems... and I am having some
> fundamental-concept problems in understanding the basics of Tape, as
> it is implemented under VMS (and maybe RT-11 too, I'll burn that
> bridge when I get to it).
>
>    On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I
> have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals
> VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and
> allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted,
> allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made
> a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created
> a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to
> the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the
> HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get
> are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.
>
>   I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the
> HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but
> the directories are empty when I copy them back...
>
>   I am lacking in the basic understanding of how the tape system
> works, so I thought to ask my Firends and Listmembers.
>
>   Cheers
>
> John



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 19:10:55 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913201055.d5@trailing-edge.com>

>   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 
>have a Cipher 9trk and a TK50... I have the MIcro VMS User's Manuals 
>VOL I & II. I understand the concept of mounting the devices and 
>allocating them (sort of), and I have successfully loaded, mounted, 
>allocated, and initialized a roll of tape on the Cipher. I have made 
>a Test directory on the HD called [TEST]  ;} on which I have created 
>a couple of simple text files. I have tried to copy these files to 
>the tape (MSA0:), and it does *something*, the tape advances and the 
>HD led flickers, but when I try to copy these files back, all I get 
>are sequentially numbered blank directory entries.

Some very important questions that need to be answered:

1.  Which version of VMS?

2.  What commands did you use?  The *exact* commands, with all qualifiers.

You know, it is *very* hard for us to tell what you did wrong unless
you tell us exactly what you did!  It sounds like you may have
very well mounted the tape /FOREIGN, in which case there is no
file name associated with each file.  (See the ANSI labeled tape
spec for more details about what /FOREIGN isn't doing for you :-) )

>  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
>HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
>the directories are empty when I copy them back...

Again, what commands?  If you MOU/FOR the tape, by default there
is no "file name" associated with each file, and on a copy back you
will get files named "." (apparently what you are seeing).

When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.

Finally, don't forget "/LOG" if you want to know what each
COPY command is really doing for you :-).

As a basic test of ANSI labeled tape functionality under VMS, try this:

INIT MSA0: TEST  (if it complains, use /OVER=(ID,ACCESS) )
MOUNT MSA0: TEST
COPY LOGIN.COM MSA0:
DIR MSA0:
COPY MSA0:LOGIN.COM []LOGIN2.COM

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 21:05:20 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913193328.8430A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
References: <v04011701b221b42cfa4c@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <v04011709b22229daa359@[207.220.32.98]>

>> 	IBM System III Model 50
>
>I know of no S/3 model 50 - just the 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 15.
>
>Any chance you could describe this machine? S/3s tend to be rather big -
>but then they really are just stripped down S/360s.
>
>William Donzelli
>william@ans.net

It was mostly buried, so I couldn't see what it looked like, it was the
size of a large Xerox machine.  All I could see was the front, I couldn't
see the top or sides.  My memory isn't always the best so I might have the
name wrong.  I'd estimate about 5 feet wide, by 4 feet high, and 2-3 feet
deep (note these are really rough estimates).

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 20:19:40 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Free 19-inch rack - DC area
Message-ID: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>

I've got an ex-Systems Industries 19" computer rack
available.  It's got about 60" of vertical mounting space available 
and a nice-built in surge protector and power distribution system.
Very, very heavy duty construction (weight empty is about 200 lbs.)
with big casters on the bottom.  Sides and top are removable.

Terms: first person to show up with a vehicle capable of carrying
it away gets it - after they help me pull the Fuji 2444 currently
residing in it.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 21:31:21 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
Message-ID: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>

As the subject says I've got a couple of REALLY basic questions.  I picked
up my first NeXT box yesterday, and am getting ready to start playing with
it.  Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
rather flimsy for that.  Also is there anything I should be aware of when
initially powering the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network
prior to powering on?

Basically I've got enough experience with OPENSTEP 4.2 x86 to know that I
want to ask some really stupid questions prior to trying anything :^)

Oh, and what's the story with the DSP port on the back?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From jpl15 at netcom.com  Sun Sep 13 20:41:12 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:36 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
In-Reply-To: <980913201055.d5@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809131822.A19879-0100000@netcom20>




 Thank you Tim... I have written a 7" reel of tape with the word 
"D'OH!" several thousand times, and I am now wearing it as I type. ;}

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote:

> >   On my now beautifully working uVAX II (thanks again Allison!) I 

  (clip)

> 
> Some very important questions that need to be answered:
> 
> 1.  Which version of VMS?
> 

      5.4    maj id=1,    min id=0

> 2.  What commands did you use?  The *exact* commands, with all qualifiers.
> 
> You know, it is *very* hard for us to tell what you did wrong unless
> you tell us exactly what you did! 

  You know, I wasn't exactly looking for precise commands (re-read 
my post, just general info and 'why not try this' type of stuff. 
More the algorithmic side...  how tape is logically different from 
disk.. to help me understand where the appropriate command apply... 
but I will copy herewith according to your wishes:

> It sounds like you may have
> very well mounted the tape /FOREIGN, in which case there is no
> file name associated with each file.  (See the ANSI labeled tape
> spec for more details about what /FOREIGN isn't doing for you :-) )

  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?
> 
> >  I mounted/foreign an RT-ll sig tape, and tried to copy it to the 
> >HD; same thing.  Show/Dev/MSA0: shows the right  Volume Label..  but 
> >the directories are empty when I copy them back...
> 
> Again, what commands?  If you MOU/FOR the tape, by default there
> is no "file name" associated with each file, and on a copy back you
> will get files named "." (apparently what you are seeing).
> 
  OK: from the console pile o' paper....

$MOUNT/FOREIGN MSA0:
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, RTSIG mounted on _MSA0:
$DIR MSA0:
 and dir fails for (now) obvious reasons.
$SHOW MAGTAPE
_Device: MSA0:

Magtape MSA0:, device type TS11, is online, allocated, deallocate 
     on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-
     oriented device, error logging is enabled.


   Error count    2   Operations completed        41

  and so forth... I'm not gonna transcribe all this, but it does 
report:   Volume Label 'RTSIG ' Density 1600 Format Normal-11

$CREATE/DIRECTORY [TEST]
$DIR TEST
%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found
$COPY MSA0:*.* [TEST]
(tape runs; HD led blinks, I enjoy the music for 6 or 7 minutes, then)
$ DIR [TEST]
.;10   .;9   .;8   .;7
.;6    .;5   .;4   .;3
.;2    .;1

  
(Remeber, Folks, I am learning this as I go along, going from the 
manual to the help files to the console and back again... this took 
hours.)
 

> When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
> in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
> Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.

 Easier kept in mind when the mind in question actually has *access*
to the aforementioned document; this one does not. :(    (refer to
original post. I have only the VMS User's Guide and the "help" system
on the machine. I also scanned thru my RT-11 Orange Wall, but didn't 
find it in there, either..  I will look again when off-line.


>
> 
Finally, don't forget "/LOG" if you 
want to know what each > COPY command is really doing for you :-).
> 

  I didn't look at this one.. I will experiment.

> As a basic test of ANSI labeled tape functionality under VMS, try this:
> 
> INIT MSA0: TEST  (if it complains, use /OVER=(ID,ACCESS) )
> MOUNT MSA0: TEST
> COPY LOGIN.COM MSA0:
> DIR MSA0:
> COPY MSA0:LOGIN.COM []LOGIN2.COM
> 

  Will try this a bit later, (after dinner).


>  Tim Shoppa                        

  Also, Tim... if DEC Hard Drive test-sets are of interest to you, I 
have three which are taking up Space...  they are looking to be 
adopted for the price of shipping...  e-mail me privately and we can 
go from There.

  Cheers and Thanks

  John

 


From allisonp at world.std.com  Sun Sep 13 20:50:48 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <199809140150.AA05173@world.std.com>

First:
  $ help copy
  $ help backup
  $ help files

under vms should be helpful as it nominally goes down to examples.

< Distant memory time... As far as copying files to the tape, did you
< initialize it prior to MOUNTing it?
< $ INIT MSA0: TEST      !TEST being the volume name assigned to the tape

That is correct.

< $ MOUNT MSA0: TEST    !tape "mounts", and is given the logical name
< "TEST".

It's mount/foreign msa0:

< $ COPY DUA0:[MYDIRECTORY]FILENAME.EXT TEST:FILENAME.EXT  !file spec is
< an example.......

$backup/log/image DUA0: MSA0:test.bak/sav

< 
< /FOREIGN, and use
< "BACKUP".

Yep!

A tape from a PDP-11 would ahve to be mounted foreign as it's a non 
files-11 format.

Allison



From yowza at yowza.com  Sun Sep 13 21:19:41 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

Many of you have seen the postings of Sam Ismail on this list, but few
know that these posts are actually generated by an artifically intelligent
robot named "Lisam" that resides at WeirdStuff warehouse in Sunnyvale. 
I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
community not far from WeirdStuff. 

Prepare yourself; this won't be pretty.

	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/people/ismail.jpg

-- Doug



From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:31:33 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913223133.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>A tape from a PDP-11 would ahve to be mounted foreign as it's a non 
>files-11 format.
>Allison

Gees, Allison, I've been interchanging tapes between VMS and RT-11 and RSX-11
for years and I don't have to mount them foreign :-).

You will very likely want to review section 1.2.2 in your "RT-11
Volume and File Formats Manual" to get the straight dope RT-11 <-> VMS
file interchange.  In particular, it notes how RT-11 uses
80-byte HDR1 records now.  If anybody *really* wants to get into
minutae, we can begin a discussion about whether ANSI Standard X3.27-1978
requires that headers be exactly 80 bytes or whether it just sets forth
the interpretation of the first 80 bytes.  I don't have a copy of the
level 4 standard with me at the moment, but I don't think this makes
it any clearer.  In any event, the level-4 compliant versions of RT-11's
FSM handlers in RT-11 V5.7 only write 80 byte headers, so it's now a
moot point.

And tell any RSX devotee that his magtapes must be mounted /FOREIGN
on a VAX and he'll teach you about something called an ACP :-).

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:36:45 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913223645.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?

ANSI sells copies - I don't know the current price.  The one I carry
around with me is ANSI X3.27-1978, "File Structure and Labeling
of Magnetic Tapes for Information Interchange".  There's a more recent
Level 4 document that makes the (obvious) Y2K-compliance workaround
the "official" solution, but I can't find my copy at the moment (I
may very well have left it at a customer's site... oops!)

>> When dealing with RT-11 (not ll!) tapes under VMS, please keep
>> in mind the very detailed advice in the RT-11 "Volume and File
>> Formats Manual", pages 1-37 through 1-39.
> Easier kept in mind when the mind in question actually has *access*
>to the aforementioned document; this one does not. :(

Get me a fax number and I'll send you the relevant pages.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
 


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Sun Sep 13 21:42:49 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980913224249.5d@trailing-edge.com>

>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?

Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
US$32.00.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From red at bears.org  Sun Sep 13 21:50:11 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809132242060.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> As the subject says I've got a couple of REALLY basic questions.  I picked
> up my first NeXT box yesterday, and am getting ready to start playing with
> it.

Great, congrats. NeXT is where my loyalties lie.

> Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
> rather flimsy for that.  

The box is die cast from magnesium. No worries.

> Also is there anything I should be aware of when initially powering
> the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network prior to
> powering on?

No, although if the box was previously a network client, it may time out
looking for a Master NetInfo server that doesn't exist. That is mostly
easy to fix, though, so no worries. The ROM monitor can be accessed by
pressing command-command-tilde (comand bar-tilde if you have an ADB
machine) any time after the keyboard self-tests complete (the shift-lock
lights flash) and the machine may be booted into single user mode from
there if necessary.

> Oh, and what's the story with the DSP port on the back?

1.5 mbit serial interface to the machine through the onboard Motorola
56001 DSP. You could get ISDN and SIO interfaces, audio hardware, and
other things to plug into it.

Feel free to contact me with specific questions.

ok
r.



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 21:50:29 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913195003.2739A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> Many of you have seen the postings of Sam Ismail on this list, but few
> know that these posts are actually generated by an artifically intelligent
> robot named "Lisam" that resides at WeirdStuff warehouse in Sunnyvale. 
> I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> community not far from WeirdStuff. 

Damn paparazzi!

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Sun Sep 13 22:07:47 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
	(message from Doug Yowza on Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:19:41 -0500 (CDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <19980914030747.25457.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> community not far from WeirdStuff. 

I'm disappointed though.  Not a Lisa 1 in the lot.  :-)

Speaking of which, has anybody got a spare 1.5M memory card for a Lisa?


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 23:16:27 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <19980914030747.25457.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211548.10270A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 14 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> > I'm about to expose remarkable footage of Lisam, the robot powered by six
> > Apple Lisa computers, taken this afternoon is a quiet residential
> > community not far from WeirdStuff. 
> 
> I'm disappointed though.  Not a Lisa 1 in the lot.  :-)

That one was at home in my garage :)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Sun Sep 13 23:43:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>


I'm looking thru this June 1977 issue of Byte.  Inside I find an ad from
Apple on page 14&15.  The copy starts "Introducing Apple II", which makes
sense as the Apple II was introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in
April 1977, so this ad was probably one of the first for the Apple II. 
Now, one of the great things about the Apple II was its ability to display
color graphics, apparently a big deal at the time, as supposedly no other
machine in the home computer class had this capability (save for the S-100
machines with a Cromemco TV Dazzler, but that was an add-on, as opposed to
the Apple II's built-in capability). 

Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001.  The
Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM,
cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080.  However,
the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped
graphics).  The Compucolor also had "mini-disk drives" (I assume 8")
available for it separately.  The retail price advertised for the
Compucolor was $2,750, very comparable with a similarly equipped Apple
II.

Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with
built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever
made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success
for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran.
The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share
of the mention.

I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparable
to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) 
hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read.

Maybe someone who is cognizant of that era can shed some additional light
on this.

The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product
in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 14 00:47:16 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809132242060.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>
References: <v0401170bb2222f00d91d@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <v0401170cb2224f64762e@[207.220.32.98]>

>Great, congrats. NeXT is where my loyalties lie.

NeXT has a look that other computers wish they had, the hardware is classy
and the GUI polished.

>> Is it safe to set the 17" monitor on top of the box?  The box seems
>> rather flimsy for that.
>
>The box is die cast from magnesium. No worries.

Oh, in that case <zip, zing, whoose>, OK, it's booting :^)  Had to hunt for
a while for a place to plug the power cord into the monitor though I'm
afriad.  Then I realized there wasn't one :^)

>> Also is there anything I should be aware of when initially powering
>> the thing on?  Does it need to be attached to my network prior to
>> powering on?
>
>No, although if the box was previously a network client, it may time out
>looking for a Master NetInfo server that doesn't exist. That is mostly

Well, it's now sitting in the "Mounting file systems" state, has been for a
few minutes, don't know if it's fscking the drive, or looking for NFS
volumes, for all I know it could be expecting some external volumes, but
with a 1Gb HD I kind of doubt that.

<waiting>

OK, it's been about half an hour and the progress bar has sat at that point
the whole time.  Anyone have any ideas?


>easy to fix, though, so no worries. The ROM monitor can be accessed by
>pressing command-command-tilde (comand bar-tilde if you have an ADB
>machine) any time after the keyboard self-tests complete (the shift-lock
>lights flash) and the machine may be booted into single user mode from
>there if necessary.

Hmm, sounds like a plan, OK, I've just dropped into the monitor, and see
that I've got 48Mb of RAM instead of 32 <yipee>, but only a 239Mb HD
instead of a 1GB <sigh>.  Gotta love an error msg of "WARNING: preposterous
time in Real Time Clock".

OK, playing some more with the ROM monitor, it looks like it's actually got
some RAM that needs reset, or it's got a bad 32Mb SIMM, I know there are 4
SIMMs, but it only shows 3, one 32Mb, and 2 8Mb (cool).

Some more playing and I somehow got it to do a verbose boot (I was actually
trying to power down :^/  It is in fact stuck on trying to mount a remote
file system, namely /usr/local (hmm, shouldn't be devistatingly important).

>Feel free to contact me with specific questions.
>
>ok
>r.

OK, how do I boot single user so I can make changes to /etc/mtab?  For all
that goes does it use /etc/mtab?  <hoping single user mode isn't password
protected>

Also, I'll try to figure it out after sending this, but how do I shutdown
this thing properly?  It's looking like a halt from the monitor, which will
apparently sync the HD, and then pull the plug <gulp>.

Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
net, but didn't dig anything up.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From thomas100 at home.com  Mon Sep 14 00:48:03 1998
From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
Message-ID: <199809140545.VAA04041@next.ireadyco.com>

Setting 17" monitors on the box is normal.  The CPU can handle it.
Most of the connection cables aren't long enough to do otherwise  
anyway.  :-(

Openstep 4.2 on NeXT hardware does Windows Networking (Samba).  If  
you have a printer you can even set up your entire NeXT machine as a  
postscript printer from Windows and have at it!

There is also an Appletalk server available for it [free] that is a  
double-clickable application.
You probably won't have much need for Netinfo.  Nevertheless it's  
easiest to use the Simple Networking application in /NextAdmin, enter  
an IP address and set it up as a Netinfo server.

Before doing this, go into /etc and copy the default netinfo  
directory s.t. you have a spare copy.  So if you mess up your netinfo  
database while you're getting started you can boot in single user  
mode and start over.  Also make a copy of the default /etc/hostconfig  
file.  [Call them hostconfig.default and netinfo.default if you  
like]

More specifically...
cd /etc
cp -r netinfo netinfo.default
cp hostconfig hostconfig.default

If you have any problems let me know...

Thomas


From kyrrin at jps.net  Sun Sep 13 23:55:18 1998
From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Stuff up for grabs, and an explanation
Message-ID: <XFMail.980913220304.kyrrin@jps.net>

Hi, folks,

        I just posted a blurb to the Usenet groups comp.sys.dec and
comp.sys.dec.micro to start moving most of the stuff I rescued a while
back from Fluke up in Everett. I'm CC'ing this to Dave Jenner as I
think he was one of the folks who wanted some of the rescued gear.
If this isn't true, Dave, please pardon the post.

        Some explanation is, I feel, in order as to why I didn't post
here first (as I normally would have).

        When I first picked the stuff up, my contact said that there
had been considerable interest in the stuff, though my response had
apparently come in first. He later forwarded me an E-mail containing
the contact info for the others who had responded, since I had made a
promise to redistribute the stuff after I decided what I wanted to keep.

        Due to my own clumsiness, this E-mail has gone astray. Since my
Fluke contact's original message advertising the stuff had gone to the
same two groups I posted my latest blurb to, I figured it would be a
good bet to do the same thing under the assumption that the same people
would see this and get in touch with me.

        So, there you have it. I'm more concerned with finding the
stuff a good home than anything else, though I did make a request for a
contribution of $25 to help cover the time off from work and
gas/wear/tear on my car (it was a fairly long trip).

        Let's see how it goes....

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies 
E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 21:55:18, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can 
    only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human 
    terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From red at bears.org  Mon Sep 14 00:08:44 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Intro NeXTstation Turbo Questions
In-Reply-To: <v0401170cb2224f64762e@[207.220.32.98]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809140049280.29721-100000@instinct.bears.org>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> Oh, in that case <zip, zing, whoose>, OK, it's booting :^)  Had to hunt for
> a while for a place to plug the power cord into the monitor though I'm
> afriad.  Then I realized there wasn't one :^)

Surprise! I always liked that.

> Well, it's now sitting in the "Mounting file systems" state, has been for a
> few minutes, don't know if it's fscking the drive, or looking for NFS
> volumes, for all I know it could be expecting some external volumes, but
> with a 1Gb HD I kind of doubt that.

Those are almost certainly NFS timeouts. It'll say 'checking the disk'
when it's fscking.

It's good news, though, that you didn't get the NetInfo timeouts as those
can indicate some of the most troublesome problems.

> OK, it's been about half an hour and the progress bar has sat at that point
> the whole time.  Anyone have any ideas?

> Hmm, sounds like a plan, OK, I've just dropped into the monitor, and see
> that I've got 48Mb of RAM instead of 32 <yipee>, but only a 239Mb HD
> instead of a 1GB <sigh>.  Gotta love an error msg of "WARNING: preposterous
> time in Real Time Clock".
> 

> OK, playing some more with the ROM monitor, it looks like it's actually got
> some RAM that needs reset, or it's got a bad 32Mb SIMM, I know there are 4
> SIMMs, but it only shows 3, one 32Mb, and 2 8Mb (cool).

You might want to verify that; I seem to recall something about the
formatting of the display there that led me once to wonder the same thing,
but the machines require RAM installed in pairs.

Suddenly, though, that strikes me as odd, as my 040 cube uses 30 pin SIMMs
and takes the standard matched quads.

> Some more playing and I somehow got it to do a verbose boot (I was actually
> trying to power down :^/

Hit the power key. (:

The two most commonly used options to b are -s (single user boot) and -v
(verbose boot)

> OK, how do I boot single user so I can make changes to /etc/mtab?  For all
> that goes does it use /etc/mtab?  <hoping single user mode isn't password
> protected>

No, the console single-user boot is open. It is regularly used to repair
brain-damaged system reconfigs. (: I think there's an option somewhere to
password protect the single-user boot, but I've never heard of it being
done.

NeXT> bsd -s

will boot from the standard hard disk (first available SCSI disk) to
single-user.

Oh, and mtab is used by the OS to keep track of the currently mounted
fs'en. Edit /etc/fstab instead.

IF /usr/local IS NOT LISTED IN /etc/fstab:

The NFS Admin tool was used to create the mount entry and we'll have to
fossick about in the NetInfo db. No big deal, but it is desireable to
avoid doing so.

> Also, I'll try to figure it out after sending this, but how do I shutdown
> this thing properly?  It's looking like a halt from the monitor, which will
> apparently sync the HD, and then pull the plug <gulp>.

Soft power. If the OS is running, hit the power key. It'll sync and power
off. If it's not (i.e. you're in the ROM monitor) just hit the power key.

Easy, eh? (:

> Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
> net, but didn't dig anything up.

Look harder. It's out there, but is old and the maintainer can't be
reached---I had some additions but was unable to get them added. I don't
have the URL handy, otherwise I'd give it to you. If you truly can't find
it, I'll see if I can't dig it up.

ok
r.



From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Mon Sep 14 00:40:49 1998
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980913211351.22997C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35feab88.906093824@insight>

Wow - that's him?  But he comes across like such an old f*rt on the
list!  I guess that's what happens when you run Windows 95 on an
Apple.  ;-)  Wonder if he's Y2K compliant...?

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:19:41 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:
<snip>
>Prepare yourself; this won't be pretty.
>
>	http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/people/ismail.jpg

                            -Bill Richman
                             bill_r@inetnebr.com
                             http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
                             (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)
                              


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 00:57:03 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
In-Reply-To: <35feab88.906093824@insight>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913225434.10270F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Bill Richman wrote:

> Wow - that's him?  But he comes across like such an old f*rt on the
> list!  I guess that's what happens when you run Windows 95 on an
> Apple.  ;-)  Wonder if he's Y2K compliant...?

This came out of no where.

I'm a very young looking 72.  Don't cross me, sonny, or I'll slap you
upside the head with my cane.

("Fart" is spelled with an 'a'.)

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From WHoagIII at aol.com  Mon Sep 14 01:05:13 1998
From: WHoagIII at aol.com (WHoagIII@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <4733983e.35fcb219@aol.com>

This one is a no brainer. I scrapped a Compucolor 8001 once. It was a STD Bus
8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial color terminal. This
terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor inside. It weighed 70 or
80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in their house. It was ugly, huge, very
unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 8" hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and
any other interface availiable on STD bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot
backplane. No comparison to an Apple  II, which many people wanted in their
homes.
Paxton


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 01:20:23 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <4733983e.35fcb219@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913231738.16328A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 WHoagIII@aol.com wrote:

> This one is a no brainer. I scrapped a Compucolor 8001 once. It was a
> STD Bus 8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial color
> terminal. This terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor
> inside. It weighed 70 or 80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in their
> house. It was ugly, huge, very unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 8"
> hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and any other interface availiable on STD
> bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot backplane. No comparison to an
> Apple II, which many people wanted in their homes. 

Well, you just spent a paragraph telling us your opinion of the
Compucolor, without giving any technical reasons as to why one would
prefer an Apple II over a Compucolor. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 03:04:42 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: robots?
In-Reply-To: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914034248.11127A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Bill Richman wrote:

> I believe you're talking about the Mattel "Big Trak"?  My nephews had one of
> those many years ago.

Mine is labeled Milton Bradley.  I still have my Big Trak, its box, and
its manual, and although some of the axils are busted, it still works!

> I believe it used tank-type steering; six wheels, and it could either lock
> one set and pivot using the others, or reverse one side.

It has six wheels; three on each side.

The middle wheel on each side is a drive wheel.  To turn, it turns one of
these wheels forward and the other backward.  So it does a nice pivot.

> I've got some surplus gearboxes and motors from the Big Trak that I
> purchased several years ago.  They're kind of neat; they have two motors and
> gear trains, linked together with a couple of big magnets.  If you run both
> in the same direction, the magnets are strong enough to force both motors to
> turn at the same speed.  If you reverse one of the motors, the magnets
> alternately repel and attract.  This either forces the machine to drive in a
> straight line, or to pivot about its center, respectively.  They also have
> an optical interrupter on one gear so the CPU can tell how far the motors
> have turned.

Cool!  The turning never worked that well for me, but I think it had more
to do with uneven floors than with the Big Trak.  A value of 15 was
supposed to do a 90 degree turn, but sometimes it took 14 or 16 and it
made programming difficult.  I had to keep re-entering the programs for a
particular patch of floor, and the effect of just having it follow me into
a room and shoot someone of my choosing was lost. :)

My Big Trak's biggest problem was (and is) breaking plastic.  First it was
the tabs that held the D cells in place, then it was the front axil, then
one of the back axils.

When I play with it now, I hold the batteries in place by forcing a
broken popsicle stick into the hole in the cover, which acts to keep the
plastic tab in place.  Eventually this might stress the plastic and cause
more breakage. :/

The front axil is held together with electrical tape.

The back axil has been drilled through and bolted into place.  It was a
repair my father made when I was a kid.  It's not quite straight, though,
so the wheel doesn't turn freely.

But it's still a cool toy.  I drag it out about once every two years and
have it drive around the house.

When I was a kid I had some sheets of paper that I had written programs
on, but those must have been tossed out or recycled years ago.

> It had a hookup to dump the trailer, and I think some other
> options that never were released.  It was a pretty cool toy.  

The trailer was the Big Trak Transport.  It looks highly breakable. :)

> A quick web search found this:
> 
> BigTrak User's Guide:
> http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/brown/BT_UG/
> 
> BigTrak Simulator Project:
> http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/courses/year3/358/cwk/corke/
> 
> BigTrak Repair Service:
> http://www.lavalamp.demon.co.uk/bigtrak/bigtrak.htm

I'll have to check these out. :)

>                                         Bill Richman
>                                         incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
>                                         (Home of the COSMAC Elf 
>                                          microcomputer simulator!)

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au  Mon Sep 14 03:28:29 1998
From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Rare Footage of Lisam Robot
Message-ID: <004b01bddfb9$a7205620$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>

Doesn't he have any keyboards either?
Where have all the keyboards gone?



From thomas at ireadyco.COM  Mon Sep 14 04:10:51 1998
From: thomas at ireadyco.COM (thomas)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Big Trak / Lego Robot kit arrived
In-Reply-To: <199809092109.QAA00803@falcon.inetnebr.com>
Message-ID: <199809141007.CAA04325@next.ireadyco.com>

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From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 04:14:01 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
In-Reply-To: <199809101932.MAA10122@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914045036.9708A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:

> > Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  I've
> > stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested I'll
> > get it scanned and uploaded. 
> > 
> > colan
> 
> I'd love to see it!  Thanks for letting us know.
> 
> Next to old computers themselves, my next favorite collectible is
> classic computer collateral -- ads, catalog entries, old photos,
> that kind of thing.

I like this kind of stuff, too.

We actually have a large pile of Popular Science magazines that are slowly
degrading in the basement.  We were going to throw them out, so I got busy
with a razor blade and cut out a lot of things.  Unfortunatley that got my
father and I reading the old issues, and as a result they still haven't
been thrown out.  But I do have a binder full of interesting
computer-related stuff.

The single-system reviews I've collected from Popular Science are:

Apple ///
Xerox 820
Timex Sinclair 1000
Apple Lisa
Epson QX-10
Access
Kaypro 10
Gavilan
Macintosh
Sinclair QL
Acorn (unknown model, it's just called the Acorn in the article, looks
       like BBC-B)
Kaypro 2000
Amiga
Atari 520ST
Macintosh Plus

A lot of other computers are mentioned (and photographed!) in articles or
mini-reviews, including:

Sinclair ZX80
VIC-20
TRS-80 Pocket Computer
Sharp PC-1211
NewBrain
TRS-80 Color Computer
TRS-80 Model III
IBM-PC
NEC PC-8001A
Osborne 1
APF Imagination Machine
Casio FX-9000P
TI-99/4A
HP-86
Sony SMC-70
Olivetti M20
Commodore BX256
Zenith Z200
Commodore Max
Astrocade
Altos
Cromemco
.
.
.
(the list is lengthier than I want to type ;) )

There are also ads for things like the TI-99/2 with Bill Cosby, the Adam,
the PMC-80, Ohio Scientific Challenger, Atari 400, Color Computer with
Isaac Asimov, VIC-20 with William Shatner, etc, etc, etc...

Lots of cool articles on computer technology stuff, too.

If you cut up Popular Science magazines and condense them to just the
computer stuff, you end up with a really interesting read. :)

> -Seth

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca  Mon Sep 14 04:36:10 1998
From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914052730.16947A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> I suspect someone probably made a Multicartridge adapter for the C64.

I think I've seen ads for them.  Probably any COMPUTE! or COMPUTE!'s
Gazette from the '83-'86 timeframe would be a good place to start looking
for what _may_have_been_ available. :)

> I know for a fact that they were made for the Vic-20 (I wish I still had
> mine <sniff>).  I know the Vic-20 adapter held 5 cartridges that were
> selectable by a rotary switch, and available via the OCCUG (Oregon
> Commodore Computer Users Group).

I've got a multi-cartridge adapter for the VIC-20, which I don't know how
to use.  I got it with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it, and I
assume that the cartridge adapter board was made so that multiple
cartridges could be active at the same time.  So that, for example, I
could use an 8K expander with Quick Brown Fox.

The reason I say I don't know how to use the multi-cartridge adapter is
that it has a bunch of dip switches, and I've got no manual to tell me
what they do.  I have managed to plug in my 16K RAM Expander and various
other carts at the same time, and had it come up with the 16K visible, but
then I don't know the proper entry point for the software (though I've
been able to scan through memory and see QBF there).

My adapter board says "Cardboard" on it, and it has space for six
cartridges.  And it has a reset button. :)

> 			Zane

Doug Spence
ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/



From oajones at bright.net  Mon Sep 14 04:44:37 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Commodore Plus/4
Message-ID: <35FCE585.501E@bright.net>

I have a Commodore Plus/4 for sale. It is in mint condition and in the
original box with books, ect. The price is $25 plus shipping.

--Alan


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 06:03:42 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with
> built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever
> made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
> between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success
> for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran.
> The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share
> of the mention.

Color graphics was only part of the equation, and a pretty small part.
The Apple ][ was the first mass-produced high-quality high-availability
micro.  If you looks at any successful product, you'll generally find that
it did *several* things right.  So, start with the fact that on paper,
that Apple had specs that met or exceeded just about anything else
available.  Then add the price, then the fact that it looked good (don't
underestimate that), then the fact that the fit-and-finish surpassed
anything else out there (ask Toyota how important that is), and perhaps
most importantly, add the Apple dealer network.  Most of the people buying
Apples weren't hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into
an Apple store.

The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped
graphics certainly helped the Apple when compared to te TRS-80, but the
Apple was just so damn *pretty* compared to the rest.

Of course, this is where the HP connection comes in:

     "Jobs thought the cigar boxes [housing the home-made computers]
     that sat on the ... desk tops during Homebrew meetings were as
     elegant as fly traps.  The angular, blue and black sheet-metal
     case that housed Processor Technology's Sol struck him as clumsy
     and industrial ... A plastic case was generally considered a
     needless expense compared to the cheaper and more pliable sheet
     metal.  Hobbyists, so the arguments went, didn't care as much for
     appearance as they did for substance.  Jobs wanted to model the
     case for the Apple after those Hewlett-Packard used for its
     calculators.  He admired their sleek, fresh lines, their hardy
     finish, and the way they looked at home on a table or desk."
	-- Michael Moritz, THE LITTLE KINGDOM, p. 186.

-- Doug



From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Mon Sep 14 08:08:25 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914130825Z-187659@exchange01.hersheys.com>

If it's for the 64, it could be a cartridge like Action Replay or
whatever was made for the 64. It usually has a pass-through on the
expansion bus and a button to activate the cart. These carts were used
to *freeze* the computer and allow you access to all the current memory
to examine, change, or save entire blocks to disk. The logic chips were
probably used to transfer control electrically from the Kernel to the
code stored in the EPROM upon the push of the button.

Jeff Salzman
>
>It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
>light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
>square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
>an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
>covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
>SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
>resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
>next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
>button makes contact, it says "TOP".
>


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 09:41:57 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <199809141337.IAA08267@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 6:03, Doug Yowza wrote:
> Most of the people buying Apples weren't
> hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into an Apple store.

I didn't think we had yuppies in 1977.  That is how I found the Apple 
myself though.  I was going to buy a TRS-80 and just happened to 
run across a store selling Apples.  It was the color graphics, slots 
and the fact the higher capacity disks that sold me over the TRS-
80.  At the time I hadn't heard of Compucolors.  Though I did see 
the Compucolor II later on and wanted one.  Thus I guess you 
could say it was marketing that helped make the Apple the hit it 
was.  I don't think the Compucolor 8001 was ever marketed 
towards the home user.

> The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
> available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
> a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped

I always saw PETs in department stores.  Don't recall ever seeing 
one in a computer store.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 09:44:35 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: (Fwd) Rescue in the UK
Message-ID: <199809141340.IAA08285@trailingedge.com>

If anyone in the UK is interested contact the party below.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	kthacker@krisalis.co.uk
Date sent:      	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:57:32 +0100

Hi,

If you're interested I have a Amiga A500+ in bad condition which 
you
could try to rehabilitate.
I've only got the casing (a bit dodgy), the main board (missing
Kickstart 2) - when you switch it
on it fails - might be problem with real time clock etc. It also has the
disc drive and keyboard.

I'm happy to send it to you, but you'd have to pay postage. I'm not 
sure
if you are in the UK, but it would be better if you were.

I'd prefer for it not to go into a landfill site.

Kev


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon Sep 14 09:39:55 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980914093955.00c80c20@pc>

At 09:43 PM 9/13/98 -0700, youthful photogenic Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product
>in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
>got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.]

In my experience, when engineers and programmers say "best" they mean
technically pure, interesting, vibrant, and often cost-effective.

They always seem baffled by the marketplace when it decides that
"best" means something else and doesn't buy the coolest technology
as frequently as something seemingly second-best, and it only gets
worse when others begin to espouse the notion that "most popular" 
equals "best" as well.

- John



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Sep 14 09:54:26 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Free 19-inch rack - Beaverton, OR area
In-Reply-To: <980913211940.103@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914074513.17654B-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

DEC lo-boy system rack.  Suitable for 10 inch chassis CPU and two RA/RL
form factor drives.

First to be able to come get it before it becomes 'oject de art

Drop me a note if interested.
-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Mon Sep 14 10:48:34 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: MX test...
In-Reply-To: <199809121336.AA13697@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <13387866761.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

I found software called MX which uses CMU-IP and plays SMTP server.
It's on my 3100 now.
Seems to work OK...  Hang on and I'll dig up where I got it from.
-------


From gram at cnct.com  Mon Sep 14 11:34:07 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:

> Color graphics was only part of the equation, and a pretty small part.
> The Apple ][ was the first mass-produced high-quality high-availability
> micro.  If you looks at any successful product, you'll generally find that
> it did *several* things right.  So, start with the fact that on paper,
> that Apple had specs that met or exceeded just about anything else
> available.  Then add the price, then the fact that it looked good (don't
> underestimate that), then the fact that the fit-and-finish surpassed
> anything else out there (ask Toyota how important that is), and perhaps
> most importantly, add the Apple dealer network.  Most of the people buying
> Apples weren't hobbyists who read BYTE, they were yuppies who bumped into
> an Apple store.

The same stores where I first saw Apples were the same stores where I
first saw Pets and Compucolors and Cromemcos -- the Byte Shop in
Mountain View and the Computerland in Los Altos.  While what I wanted
was a Cromemco 3, the credit rating of a guy fresh out of the USAF
was insufficient to get a loan for the $10k for the configuration I
wanted, so I went with a more incremental approach involving the
TRS-80.  I do remember the Compucolor II as a nice system.  (Never
have yet gotten into the Apple II, or for that matter anything else
with a 6502 -- never liked the specs on the processor).
> 
> The only other machine that was comparable at the time was the TRS-80
> available at Radio Shack (I remember it being a failrly rare event to see
> a PET at a computer store, compared to those two).  Color bitmapped
> graphics certainly helped the Apple when compared to te TRS-80, but the
> Apple was just so damn *pretty* compared to the rest.

And the TRS-80 would have driven Apple into receivership by 1980 if it
hadn't been for VisiCalc -- that one product saved the whole company,
allowing it to survive long enough to produce the Lisa and the Mac,
causing the plague of GUIs that haunts us more every day.  (Oh, the
GUIs would _exist_, but there wouldn't have been so much _pressure_).
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 11:46:45 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914130825Z-187659@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD4873.69E997B5@xio.com>

I attempted to use it on my 128.

Without a cartridge plugged into it, the 128 would come up part way -- in 128
mode. It would have the gray backgrouna and green border and a screen largely
full of "@"s.

With a cartridge plugged in, the screen stayed black when I turned the power on.

It certainly seemed about the right size for a 64 cartridge, but it doesn't
work that way. Also, the passthru plug is a teeny big too large to easily get
a cartridge to attach to it.

	-jrs

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> If it's for the 64, it could be a cartridge like Action Replay or
> whatever was made for the 64. It usually has a pass-through on the
> expansion bus and a button to activate the cart. These carts were used
> to *freeze* the computer and allow you access to all the current memory
> to examine, change, or save entire blocks to disk. The logic chips were
> probably used to transfer control electrically from the Kernel to the
> code stored in the EPROM upon the push of the button.
> 
> Jeff Salzman
> >
> >It's a white plastic cartridge with a 44-pin male card-edge connector and a
> >light blue plastic female passthru for the same type of connector. It has a
> >square black plastic button on top. It is (was) glued shut. Inside there is
> >an 24-pin EEPROM (88251A+ MM2716Q) with a Mitsubish Electric sticker
> >covering the window, a 14-pin IC (P234 DM7400N), and another 14-pin IC (EL
> >SALVADOR 1820-0328 7936 <Texas Instruments Logo> SN7402N). And two small
> >resistors and capacitors. On the circuitboard it says "NAVARONE (C)" and
> >next to the contacts where the little carbon pad on the underside of the
> >button makes contact, it says "TOP".
> >

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Mon Sep 14 12:16:25 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>

What are the expansion port specs (if applicable) of an Atari ST?
Research on the internet turned up info about a cartridge port expander
made to connect a scanner to an ST via a Navarone Cartridge Interface

(ref:)  http://www.ataricentral.com/wwwboard/messages/366.html

Other found info:

Navarone Industries is (was) located at:

Navarone Industries, Inc.
510 Lawrence Expressway #800
Sunnyvale, CA 94086

(ref:)
http://cws86.kyamk.fi/Computers/Commodore/articles/Enhancing_Your_64/
---------------------------------------
Navarone apparently made stuff for the TI99. I wonder if it is a
pass-thru cart for the side connector of a TI99, where the speech module
connects to (I forget if the port is male or female)? Or, even though it
may not be as wide as a regular TI cart, does it slide into the front
cartridge connector anyhow and possibly be used for copying cartridges? 

<insert standard liability disclaimer>
---------------------------------------

Jeff Salzman

>It certainly seemed about the right size for a 64 cartridge, but it doesn't
>work that way. Also, the passthru plug is a teeny big too large to easily get
>a cartridge to attach to it.
>


From mtapley at swri.edu  Mon Sep 14 12:30:50 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: One more NeXT dealer
Message-ID: <l03102801b222ffd8bf7d@[129.162.151.33]>

All,
	Thomas Pfaff picked out 3 of my top 4 NeXT sources. The 4th is:

http://206.67.57.106			Black Hole, Incorporated

	(having problems with his USP pointing to
http://www.blackholeinc.com/ )
I have contacted them before, and they seemed nice, but I have not dealt
with them. (They didn't have the software I was looking for.)

						- Mark




From allisonp at world.std.com  Mon Sep 14 13:01:00 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <199809141801.AA24979@world.std.com>


< the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
< 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped

The Compucolor had raster graphics. It did run it as raster too.  The 
software was written as vector to raster.

< Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer wi
< built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is eve
< made in any general computer history texts.  The obvious difference
< between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous succes
< for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran
< The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's shar
< of the mention.

Such are the vagarities of history.

< I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparab
< to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) 
< hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read.

the difference is the apple could be had peicemeal for less and the 
Compucolor was big and expensive.  the CC was intimidating and aimed at 
the highend, appleII was cuddly and inviting being aimed a bit lower.

Think of it this way it's wasnt' what the hardware could do it was waht 
the user perceived (s)he could do with it.

< The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing produc
< in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
< got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.

DEC did not learn that several times over starting with the PDP-11/150
(destop pdp-11 system), the VT180, Pro350 and Rainbow.  Yet the DECMATE
series which were fairly capable but generally used for wordprocessing 
are like flies!

Allison



From mtapley at swri.edu  Mon Sep 14 13:03:04 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: NeXT FAQ/info
Message-ID: <l03102802b2230882c889@[129.162.151.33]>


Hello, all,

> Also is there a FAQ on these systems somewhere?  I took a look out on the
> net, but didn't dig anything up.

Here are Net.places I'd start with for info on NeXTs:

http://www.stepwise.com
http://www.peak.org/next
http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers

all extracted from the periodical "..Resources on the Net" posting in
comp.sys.next.announce  if you can get usenet.

Also:
http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/index-noframe.html
						- Mark




From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 13:24:36 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD5F5F.92C8FE0F@xio.com>

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> What are the expansion port specs (if applicable) of an Atari ST?
> Research on the internet turned up info about a cartridge port expander
> made to connect a scanner to an ST via a Navarone Cartridge Interface
> 
> (ref:)  http://www.ataricentral.com/wwwboard/messages/366.html

This, I'm not sure about. I have one Atari ST thing -- a Happy Computers disk
interface box of some sort. I don't have an ST, but the card-edge connector on
this disk thing is narrower than the slot on the Navarone cartridge.

> Navarone apparently made stuff for the TI99. I wonder if it is a
> pass-thru cart for the side connector of a TI99, where the speech module
> connects to (I forget if the port is male or female)? Or, even though it
> may not be as wide as a regular TI cart, does it slide into the front
> cartridge connector anyhow and possibly be used for copying cartridges?

I checked with a friend about the cartridge slot on a TI99/4A -- it has a
40-pin connector, not a 44-pin provided by the Navarone thingy.

Hmmm...

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From jason at xio.com  Mon Sep 14 13:30:38 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Mystery cartridge -- help identify?
References: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980914171625Z-191028@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <35FD60C8.6BCC1046@xio.com>

Salzman, Jeff wrote:
> 
> Navarone Industries is (was) located at:
> 
> Navarone Industries, Inc.
> 510 Lawrence Expressway #800
> Sunnyvale, CA 94086

And I just called (408) information. They have no listing for Navarone
Industries in Sunnyvale.

	-jrs

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From pechter at shell.monmouth.com  Mon Sep 14 13:40:32 1998
From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <199809141801.AA24979@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 14, 98 02:01:00 pm
Message-ID: <199809141840.OAA25192@shell.monmouth.com>

> < The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing produc
> < in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply.  You've
> < got to advertise.  Apple was obviously more masterful at this.
> 
> DEC did not learn that several times over starting with the PDP-11/150
> (destop pdp-11 system), the VT180, Pro350 and Rainbow.  Yet the DECMATE
> series which were fairly capable but generally used for wordprocessing 
> are like flies!
> 
> Allison
> 

The DECmate had one of the nicest word processing systems.  Non-techies
could pick up the DECmate and be productive in hours.  Kind of like the 
Wang word processing copied by MultiMate.

Compare that to Wordstar (a slick word processor for some of us who
don't mind roff/troff like dot commands and who are willing to learn
control codes).

The VT180 and PDP150 suffered from lack of hard disk and were condemned
to a too-soon trash heap.  I have the VT180 at home and still love it
with WPS-80 (for DECmate like) word processing.  The PDT150 was a nice
RT11 box -- but disk access was slow and limited to the two RX01 like
floppies.  RX50 size disks would've been better.  A 20 meg hard disk
would've been outstanding. (I didn't even miss the lack of XM or
any memory management on the PDT).  I ran RT11 v5 with FB and System Job
support to run RTMON on a VT100 with my console being a PC with VT100
emulation.

I ran DECnet from home to DEC over a serial link (1200 baud) and found 
it would've been slick if there was only less swapping and load time.

Bill

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From erd at infinet.com  Mon Sep 14 13:43:56 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <199809141337.IAA08267@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Sep 14, 98 09:41:57 am
Message-ID: <199809141843.OAA02868@user2.infinet.com>

 
David Williams writes:
> I always saw PETs in department stores.  Don't recall ever seeing 
> one in a computer store.

I bought my 32K PET in 1978 at the Micro Mini Computer Store in Columbus,
Ohio, the only place for 100 miles to buy PETs.  I never saw them at 
department stores.  It was $1000 plus $100 for the external tape.  When I
used it every day, I was never able to afford a disk drive (by the time
4040's got cheap, I had moved on to Amigas).  

-ethan



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Mon Sep 14 13:46:15 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Single-card video/I/O solution
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980913124528.00bdfd58@citadel.slumberland.seatt
 le.wa.us>
References: <35FC0C5D.6D366A3C@halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980914134615.3b7f7c8c@intellistar.net>

Jason,

   I have a card like that too.  There's no same on it or the manual but
the description is the same.  It even has the Cirrus Logic video Bios. It
has nine sets of jumpers near the center of the board and a single pair
toward one end.  The floppy and IDE connectors are mounted vertically near
the center of the board. Let me know if you want to compare them and see if
they're the same.  I have the manuals and software for mine.

   Joe


At 12:45 PM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I had a multi-I/o card that did 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 game, SuperVGA
>(Cirrus Logic 5424 I think), IDE and floppy all on one card. But it was a
>VLB card. I used it in my 486SLC I had at the time. I don't remember who
>made it. It was "generic" -- no name printed on the card, and all of the
>large number of jumpers where labelled "JPx" so it was quite difficult to
>reconfigure without the manual.
>
>	-jrs
>
>At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>I'm looking for a slight variation of a card I have in an old PC/XT,
>>one card with:
>> - video (monochrome text only is OK, VGA at best)
>> - floppy disk controller (3.5in, 1.44MB is necessary)
>> - serial/parallel I/O (optional, one serial port would be nice)
>> - and (optionally) a hard drive controller (MFM is OK, IDE better)
>>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.
>>
>>The card I have is an 8-bit ISA card, and that or a 16-bit ISA card
>>would be OK.  The card I have only does up to 5.25in, 720KB floppies,
>>and that's why I can't steal it from my XT.
>>
>>Was such a card ever made?  (It's not too much of a step beyond what
>>I have.)  Does anyone have one around?  Does someone still make such
>>a card?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dave
>>
>_______________________________________________________________________
> \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
> /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: '87-90 Volkswagen Fox 2 Door Wagon
>



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 15:39:08 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: The Pill?
Message-ID: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>

I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
with says:

ON                    OFF
       "THE PILL"

This came in a box of misc Atari 800 items but I don't know where 
it would plug into an Atari.  Anyone have any idea what it might be?


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From mark_k at iname.com  Sun Sep 13 11:55:54 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Limiting message size
Message-ID: <yam7560.2701.6275624@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

Would it be possible to enforce a maximum size for each list message in the
classiccmp mailing list software? 20K maximum should be okay, and would prevent
people (accidentally or on purpose) sending large files through the list, as
just happened.

Otherwise when someone posts a large file to the list, those who subscribe to
the digest version especially must decide between downloading a huge digest
message file (containing the useless large posting), or skipping it and
therefore missing proper messages. (If they have configured their mail program
to alert them when large messages are waiting.)

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


-- Mark



From mark_k at iname.com  Mon Sep 14 16:56:40 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <yam7561.2024.3960728@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

Hi,

The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an external
unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive, for a
simple floppy drive.

Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive mechanism,
and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive set
in the backup RAM.

I can format disks and use DIR, but reading or writing any files always gives
an Abort/Retry/Cancel error. Unsurprisingly, cleaning the heads made no
difference. Actually, to elaborate on this copying a load of files to a newly-
formatted disk gives an error after copying (say) the first two files.

Does this drive have some non-standard pinout, different from the 37-way D
5.25" port on the back of the PC, or maybe only work with IBM PS/2 machines?

If it is just faulty, what might the problem be? The cable is unlikely I think,
as is the power supply.

The casing has a couple of tamperproof Torx screws. I'd like to know what size
they are so that I can buy a suitable screwdriver bit.


Finally, on another subject, if anyone has an old PC with at least three ISA
slots (386SX would be fine) I could give it a good home.


-- Mark



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:09:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Big Trak / Lego Robot kit arrived
In-Reply-To: <199809141007.CAA04325@next.ireadyco.com> from "thomas" at Sep 14, 98 02:10:51 am
Message-ID: <m0zId4D-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 14:54:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
Message-ID: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Sep 14 16:54:03 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914144937.14317A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> I was delving in my pile of odd bits and I found the encoder board for an 
> Apple ][ keyboard. This is the later version with the slide switch to 
> select between reset and ctrl-reset. It's marked 'Encoder Discrete 
> Keyboard 605-X105-__ Copyright Apple Computer 1979'
> 
> There are 2 unused positions on this board. One is marked S2, and seems 
> to be for a DPDT switch. There are X-pads to cut (I guess) when you 
> install this switch. 
> 
> The other is J2, and is for a DE9-P connector.
> 
> Does anyone know what they're for? I would guess J2 is for a numeric 
> keypad, but I can't be sure.

As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the J2
connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And, I
believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads) enables
lower case encoding.

Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard ROMs.

(been quite a while since I looked at the prints on that one tho...)

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Sep 14 16:55:42 1998
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:37 2005
Subject: NeXT system available soon!
References: <199809132215.OAA03763@next.ireadyco.com>
Message-ID: <35FD90DE.183200E8@texoma.net>

I've bought from DeepSpace Tech and got good prompt service.  It was
only a mouse, but shipment was as promised and the price seemed
reasonable.

James

Thomas Pfaff wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I should note that there are several places to reliably pick up inexpensive NeXT hardware.
> Ebay and such generally don't have such good prices.
> 
> news://comp.sys.next.marketplace
> http://www.orb.com
> http://www.deepspacetech.com
> 
> The 'orb' guy is weird and opportunistic but does seem to do whatever he says he'll do in terms of support and such. I've never bought from deepspace but have heard reasonably good things about them. Orb is on the west coast just north of San Francisco. I believe deepspace is on the east coast... Orb seems to occasionally pick up equipment from deepspace and sell it for higher prices but that's usual. I've dealt with orb on and off since 1991 or so.
> 
> Thomas
> ----
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: kyrrin@jps.net
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: NeXT system available soon!
> X-Sender: kyrrin@seleth.bluefeather.com
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> 
> While at RE-PC in Seattle yesterday, I saw that they're working
> on getting a complete color NeXT system ready to sell. As near as I can
> tell, this is the 'Pizza Box' configuration with 32 megs RAM. I don't
> know what size hard drive it has as it had been taken home by one of
> the guys who was going to load the NeXT OS on it.
> 
> If interested, give a call to the Seattle store at (206)
> 623-9151. Ask for Maurice or Jeff and tell them I referred you.
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Bruce Lane, owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
> E-Mail: kyrrin (at) jps [d=o=t] net (munged to screw up spambots)
> Sent on 13-Sep-98 at 10:25:09, Pacific -- http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
> "...No matter how much we may wish otherwise, our science can
> only describe an object, event, or living creature in our own human
> terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From roblwill at usaor.net  Mon Sep 14 16:43:27 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <199809142200.SAA16533@gate.usaor.net>

> 
> The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an
external
> unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive,
for a
> simple floppy drive.
> 
The extra space (length) is the power supply.  I also have one of those
drives.

> Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive
mechanism,
> and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive
set
> in the backup RAM.

It was made to work with the XT, plugging into a special port on the disk
controller card.  Yes, it is a standard 360K drive.

> 
> I can format disks and use DIR, but reading or writing any files always
gives
> an Abort/Retry/Cancel error. Unsurprisingly, cleaning the heads made no
> difference. Actually, to elaborate on this copying a load of files to a
newly-
> formatted disk gives an error after copying (say) the first two files.
> 
> Does this drive have some non-standard pinout, different from the 37-way
D
> 5.25" port on the back of the PC, or maybe only work with IBM PS/2
machines?
> 
The D connector goes directly to the disk drive.

> If it is just faulty, what might the problem be? The cable is unlikely I
think,
> as is the power supply.
> 
> The casing has a couple of tamperproof Torx screws. I'd like to know what
size
> they are so that I can buy a suitable screwdriver bit.

Tamperproof screw solution: a SHARP 1/2" drill bit.  Just drill off the
heads, and you'll have no problem.

The drive that I had, I had no use for, and couldn't get it to work with my
PC, so here's what I did: 

-Pulled the old 360K drive, and replaced it with a 1.2 meg drive.  
-Cut a hole in the top of the case large enough so that I could attach a
3.5" drive on top of the 5.25".
-Super-glued the 3.5" to the 5.25" drive.
-Split the power cable, and put a 3.5" floppy connector on it so that the
P/S could power both drives.
-Using a TRS-80 printer cable (ribbon - type), I twisted the cable and put
on new plugs to connect the floppies.
-Ran the ribbon cable under the P/S, and out a slot that I cut in the back.
 
-Connected all cables, and put the case back together.
-Ran ribbon cable into open slot on back of computer and connected to
floppy connector.

It may seem like a bit of work to get an external drive, but it sure beats
buying a new $80 tower case.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 17:05:25 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
Message-ID: <19980914220526.28308.qmail@hotmail.com>





Because people  don't want to feel like they're singlehandedly
running the Ministry of Truth from a desk in their room. Something
engineers never seem to get is the concept of a nice look. Many of
the people on this list mention how ugly something is, and if I've
seen it, I'm often forced to agree.
>> STD Bus 8080 Computer board set mounted in a compucolor comercial 
color
>> terminal. This terminal was a large metal box with a 19 inch monitor
>> inside. It weighed 70 or 80 pounds. No one would have wanted it in 
their
>> house. It was ugly, huge, very unwieldy and heavy. You could attach a 
8"
>> hard drive, 8" or 5 " floppys and any other interface availiable on 
STD
>> bus that would fit in a near full 6 slot backplane. No comparison to 
an
>> Apple II, which many people wanted in their homes. 
>
>Well, you just spent a paragraph telling us your opinion of the
>Compucolor, without giving any technical reasons as to why one would
>prefer an Apple II over a Compucolor. 
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 08/25/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 17:10:03 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Lisa ad
Message-ID: <19980914221003.11301.qmail@hotmail.com>





Popular science used to be a good magazine, until they changed
editors a few years ago and it became much less informative.
While before they had some real journalism, now it's just constant
articles about 'the new superplane'.
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 sethm@loomcom.com wrote:
>
>> > Is anyone interested in the Popular Science review of the Lisa?  
I've
>> > stumbled across that particular issue and if any one is interested 
I'll
>> > get it scanned and uploaded. 
>> > 
>> > colan
>> 
>> I'd love to see it!  Thanks for letting us know.
>> 
>> Next to old computers themselves, my next favorite collectible is
>> classic computer collateral -- ads, catalog entries, old photos,
>> that kind of thing.
>
>I like this kind of stuff, too.
>
>We actually have a large pile of Popular Science magazines that are 
slowly
>degrading in the basement.  We were going to throw them out, so I got 
busy
>with a razor blade and cut out a lot of things.  Unfortunatley that got 
my
>father and I reading the old issues, and as a result they still haven't
>been thrown out.  But I do have a binder full of interesting
>computer-related stuff.
>
>The single-system reviews I've collected from Popular Science are:
>
>Apple ///
>Xerox 820
>Timex Sinclair 1000
>Apple Lisa
>Epson QX-10
>Access
>Kaypro 10
>Gavilan
>Macintosh
>Sinclair QL
>Acorn (unknown model, it's just called the Acorn in the article, looks
>       like BBC-B)
>Kaypro 2000
>Amiga
>Atari 520ST
>Macintosh Plus
>
>A lot of other computers are mentioned (and photographed!) in articles 
or
>mini-reviews, including:
>
>Sinclair ZX80
>VIC-20
>TRS-80 Pocket Computer
>Sharp PC-1211
>NewBrain
>TRS-80 Color Computer
>TRS-80 Model III
>IBM-PC
>NEC PC-8001A
>Osborne 1
>APF Imagination Machine
>Casio FX-9000P
>TI-99/4A
>HP-86
>Sony SMC-70
>Olivetti M20
>Commodore BX256
>Zenith Z200
>Commodore Max
>Astrocade
>Altos
>Cromemco
>.
>.
>.
>(the list is lengthier than I want to type ;) )
>
>There are also ads for things like the TI-99/2 with Bill Cosby, the 
Adam,
>the PMC-80, Ohio Scientific Challenger, Atari 400, Color Computer with
>Isaac Asimov, VIC-20 with William Shatner, etc, etc, etc...
>
>Lots of cool articles on computer technology stuff, too.
>
>If you cut up Popular Science magazines and condense them to just the
>computer stuff, you end up with a really interesting read. :)
>
>> -Seth
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca
>http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 17:44:53 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
> on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
> with says:
> 
> ON                    OFF
>        "THE PILL"
> 
> This came in a box of misc Atari 800 items but I don't know where 
> it would plug into an Atari.  Anyone have any idea what it might be?

Maybe its birth control for the Atari.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 17:46:20 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Limiting message size
In-Reply-To: <yam7560.2701.6275624@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154530.18103C-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Mark wrote:

> Would it be possible to enforce a maximum size for each list message in the
> classiccmp mailing list software? 20K maximum should be okay, and would prevent
> people (accidentally or on purpose) sending large files through the list, as
> just happened.
<...> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I don't think any attachment should ever be sent to a list.  It should
either be posted somewhere on the web, at an FTP site, or e-mailed
directly to the parties interested.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:10:32 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIehv-000IyRC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914155254.18103F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> There are 2 unused positions on this board. One is marked S2, and seems 
> to be for a DPDT switch. There are X-pads to cut (I guess) when you 
> install this switch. 

I found the perfect book to answer this question over the weekend.  Its
called _The Apple II Circuit Description_ by Winston D. Gayler.  It
includes in-depth technical descriptions of the Apple II and detailed
fold-out schematics of every major subsystem in the Apple II, including
the CPU, the bus pinouts, the keyboard, etc.

This should answer your question:

"Quad-mode operation--B6 is a quad-mode encoder.  This means each key can
generate up to four different characters as a function of the SHIFT and
CTRL keys.

"Lowercase--there are two bow ties on the board with the ICs [the encoder 
board].  They may be cut as a user option.  The circuit is then restored
by adding switch S2.  In the normal position of S2, the circuit functions
as previously described [ie. normal Apple II keyboard encoding].  When S2
is operated, output bits 9 and 8 are substituted for bits 5 and 6.
Encoder B6 has been programmed with ASCII lowercase letters.  This
substitution of bits will make the lowercase letters available.
Lowercase operation is as follows: with the shift key not depressed,
pressing any letter key will output lowercase.  With the shift key
pressed, pressing any letter key will output uppercase.

Numeric pad--As a user option, a nine-pin connector may be installed on
the keyboard at J2.  Then J2 can be extended to a numeric pad."

Let me know if you have any more specific questions.  This book is
excellent.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 18:15:52 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809141935.OAA00576@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809142210.RAA00764@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 15:44, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Maybe its birth control for the Atari.

Ok, I was wondering how long it would be before you came back 
with that one Sam. :-)

Whatever it is, it sure is strange looking.  Guess I need to take a 
picture and put it up on the web site.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:11:36 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980914144937.14317A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:

> As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the J2
> connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And, I
> believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads) enables
> lower case encoding.
> 
> Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard ROMs.

True.  You still needed to acquire (or burn) a character ROM with
lowercase characters.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From aaron at wfi-inc.com  Mon Sep 14 18:19:39 1998
From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914154428.18103B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980914161842.6998A-100000@lafleur>



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Maybe its birth control for the Atari.


Atari hasn't needed birth control since Jack Tremiel castrated it in the
mid 80's....



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 18:33:57 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <199809142210.RAA00764@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914163258.18103H-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 14 Sep 98, at 15:44, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > Maybe its birth control for the Atari.
> 
> Ok, I was wondering how long it would be before you came back 
> with that one Sam. :-)

Geez, am I that predictable?  I guess its time for me to move on to Wit
102 since my Wit 101 gags are growing tired.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 18:32:41 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914155254.18103F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 04:10:32 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIi6v-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 18:34:14 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 04:11:36 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 19:27:45 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> What does most Apple ][ software (e.g. Applesoft, the p-system) do if you 
> enter commands in lower case?

On the ][ and ][+, AppleSoft and DOS 3.3 will puke.  Don't know about
Pascal, although I would venture to guess it dones't mind lowercase
characters.

Now, on the //e, AppleSoft doesn't mind lowercase, but DOS 3.3 still pukes
as it was written in an era where lowercase simply was never considered,
even as a future enhancement.

In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language
card" to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 19:43:43 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914193932.16476A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> Now, on the //e, AppleSoft doesn't mind lowercase, but DOS 3.3 still pukes
> as it was written in an era where lowercase simply was never considered,
> even as a future enhancement.

A friend of mine created a product called LowerEase that added lowercase
to the Apple ][.  In addition to the character gen ROM and a shift key
mod, I thought the package also included a patch to the command-line
interpreter for Apple DOS.  IIRC, DOS intercepted the command-line input
routine for AppleSoft, so this would have worked for BASIC as well.  (I
never used his product, so I may be making this all up.)

-- Doug




From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 20:31:53 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914193932.16476A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914182833.18103R-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> A friend of mine created a product called LowerEase that added lowercase
> to the Apple ][.  In addition to the character gen ROM and a shift key
> mod, I thought the package also included a patch to the command-line
> interpreter for Apple DOS.  IIRC, DOS intercepted the command-line input
> routine for AppleSoft, so this would have worked for BASIC as well.  (I
> never used his product, so I may be making this all up.)

You're making some of it up.  DOS intercepted the command line input and
only parsed out DOS commands.  If it didn't recognize a DOS command it
passed the line off to BASIC.  His DOS enhancement COULD have converted
any lowercase command line to uppercase before passing it on to BASIC so
it wouldn't puke.  That's entirely doable and would be rather elegant. 

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Mon Sep 14 21:48:17 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself."
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980914052730.16947A-100000@alcor.concordia.ca>
References: <v04011700b21e397b5f15@[207.220.32.195]>
Message-ID: <v04011702b223851ef74e@[207.220.32.235]>

>I've got a multi-cartridge adapter for the VIC-20, which I don't know how
>to use.  I got it with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it, and I
>assume that the cartridge adapter board was made so that multiple
>cartridges could be active at the same time.  So that, for example, I
>could use an 8K expander with Quick Brown Fox.
>
>The reason I say I don't know how to use the multi-cartridge adapter is
>that it has a bunch of dip switches, and I've got no manual to tell me
>what they do.  I have managed to plug in my 16K RAM Expander and various
>other carts at the same time, and had it come up with the 16K visible, but
>then I don't know the proper entry point for the software (though I've
>been able to scan through memory and see QBF there).
>
>My adapter board says "Cardboard" on it, and it has space for six
>cartridges.  And it has a reset button. :)

The one I had the rotary switch, which I gather you don't have, it was to
select the slot, you then pressed the reset button, and that rebooted with
that cartridge.  IIRC it also had the DIP switches, these were used to copy
the cartridges to cassette tape or floppy, and back to a memory cartridge.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Mon Sep 14 20:48:05 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
Message-ID: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>

>You're making some of it up.  DOS intercepted the command line input and
>only parsed out DOS commands.  If it didn't recognize a DOS command it
>passed the line off to BASIC.  His DOS enhancement COULD have converted
>any lowercase command line to uppercase before passing it on to BASIC so
>it wouldn't puke.

That's the way I interpreted his description of the action.

>That's entirely doable and would be rather elegant. 

Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

The only software that I extensively used on a Apple II that dealt with
lowercase characters was Paul Lutus's _Applewriter II_.  A very excellent
editor, with what amounts to almost "regular expression" search and
replace.  If only EMACS (Eight Megabytes and Continually Swapping?
Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift?) were as lean and mean!

Tim.


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Mon Sep 14 20:59:53 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
In-Reply-To: <199809090235.AA21995@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199809150159.LAA19036@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 10:35 PM 08-09-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote:

>Or a 11/780 
>equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?

Didn't this get called a VAXstation-I. If it's the device I remember it was
one (several) Unibus cards and a fibre optic connect or was this something
different again?

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From yowza at yowza.com  Mon Sep 14 21:03:55 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914210039.6761A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:

> Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
> the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

It hooked the command interpreter, not the low-level input routines.  It
would only uppercase commands (and I assume it was smart enough to leave
quoted strings alone).  Applications would, of course, have mixed case
input available. 

-- Doug




From rhblake at bbtel.com  Mon Sep 14 21:57:22 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
References: <199809142200.SAA16533@gate.usaor.net>
Message-ID: <35FDD790.ADFE258@bbtel.com>

Jason Willgruber wrote:

> The extra space (length) is the power supply.  I also have one of those
> drives.

I don't have a schematic in front of me but the 4869 has it's own internal
power supply.

> > Anyway, I can't get it to work properly. It is probably a 360K drive
> mechanism,
> > and my PC (Philips 386SX AT clone) boots normally with this type of drive
> set
> > in the backup RAM.
>
> It was made to work with the XT, plugging into a special port on the disk
> controller card.  Yes, it is a standard 360K drive.

Might be....there is also a 1.2mb version.

 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From dlw at trailingedge.com  Mon Sep 14 22:06:38 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914172508.18103N-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <m0zIi8Q-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 17:27, Sam Ismail wrote:

> In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
> be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language card"
> to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).

Sam, are you saying ProDOS required the autostart ROM?  I have 
a II+ without the autostart ROM (swapped it for a original II ROM) 
and I believe ProDOS worked fine.  I'd have to set it up and check 
though.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 23:20:21 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <980914214805.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914211637.23462B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:

> Except what's the purpose of the hardware lowercase modification if
> the first thing you do with it in software is convert to uppercase? :-)

If you're in a word processor, sure.  But when you're typing commands, you
don't want to have to worry what case you're in.  The point of converting
it in software is that you don't want to have the commands stored in a
table in memory in both upper and lower case, wasting memory.

> The only software that I extensively used on a Apple II that dealt with
> lowercase characters was Paul Lutus's _Applewriter II_.  A very excellent
> editor, with what amounts to almost "regular expression" search and
> replace.  If only EMACS (Eight Megabytes and Continually Swapping?
> Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift?) were as lean and mean!

I preferred that in my early days as well.  Then moved on to Apple Pie.
Then was impressed by AppleWorks and made the switch, occasionally using
Apple Pie for certain tasks.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Mon Sep 14 23:24:54 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, David Williams wrote:

> On 14 Sep 98, at 17:27, Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > In either case, ProDOS will accept either upper or lower case (ProDOS can
> > be run on a ][ (with the autostart ROMs) and ][+ with the "language card"
> > to provide the additional 16K required by ProDOS).
> 
> Sam, are you saying ProDOS required the autostart ROM?  I have 
> a II+ without the autostart ROM (swapped it for a original II ROM) 
> and I believe ProDOS worked fine.  I'd have to set it up and check 
> though.

It was speculation on my part.  However, if you ran ProDOS on the
"Integer" ROMs then I'm a bit surprised.  Perhaps I shouldn't be.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Sep 15 01:49:05 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com>
        "Re: Apple ][ keyboard encoder" (Sep 14, 16:11)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914161108.18103G-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <9809150749.ZM10115@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 14, 16:11, Sam Ismail wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, James Willing wrote:
>
> > As I recall, (going a little out on a limb here) you are correct on the
J2
> > connector. That was to support an Apple marketed numeric keypad.  And,
I
> > believe that the other switch (along with cutting the marked pads)
enables
> > lower case encoding.
> >
> > Which of course does little good on an Apple II / II+ with standard
ROMs.
>
> True.  You still needed to acquire (or burn) a character ROM with
> lowercase characters.

A few years ago, I made the mod and created a suitable character set ROM
image, which I burned into a 2716.  If anybody wants it, you can pick up
the ROM image at

    http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/NewCG

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:11:00 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
Message-ID: <9808159058.AA905873225@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Jim Weiler wrote:

> I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone 
> knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, 
> I'd appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim
>
> COMPUTER HAIKU
>
> Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced 
> error messages in haiku...

[Seventeen haiku
 all really hilarious
 are snipped from this point]

> Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen 
> (tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or 
> just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I 
> appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to 
> another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>

There used to be a long list at

http://www.mong.demon.co.uk/haiku.htm

but it seems to have disappeared.  I think all yours were on it - I have 
an hard copy at home.  Anyone know where it's gone?

I think Haiku error messages are a good idea, and now I work off my 
frustration by making them up for errors I get, such as:

CC:Mails are stored
all in one big database
which you can't access.

Philip.



From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk  Mon Sep 14 13:01:12 1998
From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Portland, Ore. Info
Message-ID: <9808159058.AA905873221@compsci.powertech.co.uk>

Zane Healy wrote:

> Stuff I saw:
 
 [...]
 
> A very interesting little Tek terminal on it's own stand 

Get a better look at this.  It could be any of the following (at least):

4006
4012
4014
4051
4052
4054
4052A
4054A

I'd guess it's not a 4014 or 4054 (A or otherwise), since these are not 
in the least "little"

However 4052s of any flavour are EXTREMELY RARE.  AFAIK, the only two 
known still to exist are mine and the one in the computer museum in 
Amsterdam, Netherlands.  (If anyone knows of another 4052 or 4054 please 
let me know!)

All the TEK terminals of this date are interesting, partly because of 
the dead-end technology, viz. the storage tube.

If it is more recent than storage tube TEKs, it may still be 
interesting...

BTW, the 4050 series had computers tucked in the bottom of the terminals 
- a 6800 based micro in the 4051 and a 16 bit bitslice in the others.

To give you an idea of value, I paid roughly $200 for my 4052, and I 
have been advised by Dr Dooijes at the Dutch museum to insure it for 
$3000.  (NB he paid nothing for his).  It looks like insurance for the 
VCF is going to cost another 100 pounds...

Philip.



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Sep 15 07:15:08 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Any Pr1me fans out there?
Message-ID: <199809151215.AA18724@world.std.com>

< >Or a 11/780 
< >equipped with a DECterm100 (bit mapped and the map is vax resident)?
< 
< Didn't this get called a VAXstation-I. If it's the device I remember it 
< one (several) Unibus cards and a fibre optic connect or was this somethi
< different again?

Thats the beastie, I've used it too.  Not bad for it's day.

Allison



From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Tue Sep 15 07:39:08 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915123908Z-195594@exchange01.hersheys.com>

The Atari 8-bit FAQ mentions something about the "Pill" cartridge
copying scheme.

http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html

Jeff Salzman

>\I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
>on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
>with says:
>
>ON                    OFF
>       "THE PILL"


From dlw at trailingedge.com  Tue Sep 15 08:40:56 1998
From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809150202.VAA01026@trailingedge.com>
Message-ID: <199809151236.HAA01332@trailingedge.com>

On 14 Sep 98, at 21:24, Sam Ismail wrote:

> It was speculation on my part.  However, if you ran ProDOS on the
> "Integer" ROMs then I'm a bit surprised.  Perhaps I shouldn't be.

Hmm, don't have a way to test that.  I was using the Applesoft 
ROMs but without the Autostart ROM.  Wonder if it would work 
with the Interger ROMs or not.


-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw@trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep 15 11:20:42 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
Message-ID: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

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From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Tue Sep 15 11:43:28 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
References: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <35FE9930.6D2855D6@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Marion Bates wrote:
> 
> I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the 64C looks like a 128. (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- MB

Thats the difference. The 64C looks like a 128.

Tony


From jsalzman at hersheys.com  Tue Sep 15 11:41:43 1998
From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915164143Z-198853@exchange01.hersheys.com>

Mostly, there are some motherboard design difference between the two.
However, it is known that you can actually swap the boards between the
two if you preferred one case over another and have a bad unit. There
were at least 4 different board revisions, so some boards may not move
to another case. Another thing you might notice is the power supply
connector is different. There was a connector redesign between the newer
(aka 'flat C64') and older (aka 'Breadbox') C64's. The flat 64 has a
square connector where the breadbox 64 has a round one. The flat 64 also
has a different component layout due to IC consolidation. Maybe those
newer chip designs are what's overheating your system. Or it could be
the fact that the parts are closer to the outside of the case.

I'm toying with the idea of swapping boards in my systems. I only heard
that it can be done. I want a functional version of each and I have 2
working flat units and 7 dead breadboxes (of which I salvaged parts from
to get an SX-64 working). For my display units, I would like one of each
design in working order.

Hope this helps,
Jeff Salzman

>I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
>64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
>64C looks like a 128. (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats
>after about an hour or so...)
>


From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu  Tue Sep 15 12:13:37 1998
From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive
Message-ID: <199809151713.NAA20812@dgs.cs.unc.edu>

On Mon 14 Sep 1998 21:56:40, Mark <mark_k@iname.com> wrote:
] The other week I bought an IBM 4869 5.25" floppy drive. This is an external
] unit that hooks up to a PC via a 37-way D connector. The case is massive,
] ...

Hope you didn't pay much; I have three of these available on my
"for trade" web page.  See this URL:

	http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/fortrade.html

I'm in NC, zip code 27514 (for those of you calculating postage).

	Cheers,
	Bill.


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:30 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <35FBFE24.EAE70ED@goldrush.com>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10846@smtp.interlog.com>

On 13 Sep 98 at 10:17, Larry Anderson wrote:

> > Subject: Using Commodore 15xx drives on PC's...
> 
>  
> > Someone found this and sent me a link to it, a cable made to allow
> > hookup to any of the Commodore 15xx serial bus drives to your parallel
> > port on your PC.
> > 
> > http://www.student.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/hw/cables/x1541.html
> 
> There has been some discussion on this in the CBM Hacker's maillist about the
> newer parallel ports not being able to handle the voltage levels used by the
> Commodore's IEC.  Here is a copy of one of the latest in the chain:
> 
> > Subject: Re: New X1541 standard
> >    From: "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> > 
> > Hi Ruud,
> > 
> > >New X1541-cable,
> > >
> > >A lot of people happily use the X1541-cable to connect their PC with their
> > >C= equipment. I was one of them until one day my PC started to smoke. I
> > >opened my PC and found out that my I/O-card had gone to the moon. From that
> > >day on I used X1541 only in combination with an old-fashion all-TTL-ICs
> > >card and was happy again.
> > 
Larry A. , or someone could you elaborate on this. I have an X1541 cable and 
the StarCommander program to use with my PC's paralell port to transfer stuff 
to and from a C64's 1541 fdd. From what I could translate from  this exchange:
   Using the X1541 cable with "newer paralell ports" and non-"old-fashioned" 
all transister-transister logic ICs could smoke my PC , cause the "newer 
p-ports can't handle the higher voltage levels used by the Commodores IEC( ? ) 
  I monitor the CBM newsgroup and many are using this cable to get prgs. etc.
from the net to transfer to their commie and have never heard of any problems.
 What does newer or non-TTL ICs refer to in particular ? The newer CPUs that 
use 3.5 volts ? 

ciao		larry

    (Didn't snip this cause it seems relevent )

> > Happily I gone into that conclusion in very early time :-)
> > 
> > >When soldering the cable I instantly knew there was something fishy about
> > >it because I knew the lines of the IEC-bus were used to transport signals
> > >in two directions while the LPT-port had no line capable of doing this.
> > 
> > And the authors of X1541 supported programs doesn't mention risk came with it.
> > 
> > >The problem is that more and more users, including myself, have mother-
> > >boards with an onboard LPT-port and no hair on my head thinks of it using
> > >this port for things like X1541. It is easy to say to buy an extra card for
> > >this purpose but I also have no confidence in these as they are fitted with
> > >VLSI-chips as my I/O-card was.
> > 
> > >The hardware:
> > >
> > >There are two directions to go:
> > >1) using transistors, resistors etc.
> > >2) using TTL ICs
> > 
> > Or
> > 
> >  3) Use resistors in range 100-200 Ohms, so risk could be minimized (but not
> >     resolved) and programs should support that little modification :-).
> > 
> > >Another idea is to use pin 10, Acknowledge, as input for the ATN-signal
> > >because this input is capable of generating an interrupt. This can be an
> > >advantage when using the PC as diskdrive for an C64.
> > 
> > I can remember that some cards won't like correctly generate interrupts.
> > 
> > >Extra idea:
> > >
> > >The datalines of LPT-port are not used. How about connecting them to the
> > >userport for 8 bit parallel transfers?
> > 
> > I already connected and works perfectly.
> > 
> > >For the old ports this can only be used for reading but for bidirectional
> > >ports.... (And I rebuild an old one :-) )
> > 
> > Done. What about my version?
> > 
> >  http://members.tripod.com/~Frank_Kontros/easyport/cable.gif
> > 
> > OK! Needs bi-directional port, but simple.
> > 
> > >The consequence is that to use this feature the kernal has to be changed.
> > 
> > Changed successfully. Not completed, but the whole serial protocol emulated by
> > parallel way, fastload/save/verify, DOS WEDGE, F-keys.
> > 
> > >Yvo Nelemans wrote Server64 and he wrote it in Turbo Pascal :-). He stopped
> > >with the devellopment and I have decided to resume with this project after
> > >getting his permission. Server64 is meant to use the PC as diskdrive for
> > >the C64. Unfortunally it also is as slow as a standard diskdrive in
> > >combination with a standard C64.
> > 
> > I wrote it in asm, so you can compare the speedz. Just only 10 native mode drives
> > emulated and a 256K REU, but in future ... anything possible.
> > 
> > >My questions to you are:
> > >1) does anybody have detailed protocol specifications of a fastloader only
> > >using the IEC-cable (example EXOS V3) and/or its sourcecodes?
> > >2) the same for a parallel fastloader (like SpeedDos)?
> > 
> > In my opininon there are no fastloader specifications at all. All transfer
> > operations should be maximally synchronized. There are general rules, but
> > no specifications. Isn't you meant the burst protocol specifications, used
> > in 1571/81 drives?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Frank
> 
> Thought I should pass it along.  :)
> 
> P.S. Subscription info for CBM Hackers list is on my web-page - see link below.
> -- 
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
> Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
>                         http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> 
> 
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:32 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <9808159058.AA905873225@compsci.powertech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>

On 14 Sep 98 at 18:11, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote:

> Jim Weiler wrote:
> 
> > I thought this listserve might appreciate these. I know I do. If anyone 
> > knows of a source for these, other than the one I've attributed below, 
> > I'd appreciate knowing of it.  -Jim
> >
> > COMPUTER HAIKU
> >
> > Imagine if, instead of cryptic, geeky text strings, your computer produced 
> > error messages in haiku...
> 
> [Seventeen haiku
>  all really hilarious
>  are snipped from this point]
> 
> > Best I can tell, this can be traced back to Tanya Olsen 
> > (tanya.olsen@smtpgate.coga.state.co.us). I don't know if she wrote them, or 
> > just passed them on. I haven't checked it out. All I can say is that I 
> > appreciate them, and thank the creator, whoever it was, from one poet to 
> > another. They are very good, IMHO. -Jim Weiler <heavy@tstar.net>
> 
> There used to be a long list at
> 
> http://www.mong.demon.co.uk/haiku.htm
> 
> but it seems to have disappeared.  I think all yours were on it - I have 
> an hard copy at home.  Anyone know where it's gone?
> 
> I think Haiku error messages are a good idea, and now I work off my 
> frustration by making them up for errors I get, such as:
> 
> CC:Mails are stored
> all in one big database
> which you can't access.
> 
> Philip.
> 
> 
two haikus in a message 
about haikus in a message
What a good thing Haikus are

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:29 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: The Pill?
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=IBMX400%p=HFC%l=EXCHANGE01-980915123908Z-195594@exchange01.hersheys.com>
Message-ID: <199809151725.NAA10884@smtp.interlog.com>

On 15 Sep 98 at 8:39, Salzman, Jeff wrote:

> The Atari 8-bit FAQ mentions something about the "Pill" cartridge
> copying scheme.
> 
> http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html
> 
> Jeff Salzman
> 
> >\I have a small (about 2"x2") box which has a 30 pin edge connector 
> >on one end and a switch on the other.  There is a label on one side 
> >with says:
> >
> >ON                    OFF
> >       "THE PILL"
> 
 If you have access to usenet , I'm sure someone at 
 comp.sys.atari.8bit which is still very active could answer
your questions.

ciao		larry  
lwalker@interlog.com


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 13:17:05 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:

> two haikus in a message 
> about haikus in a message
> What a good thing Haikus are

This is not haiku
You must adhere to structure
Five seven five dude

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 14:23:45 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
In-Reply-To: <35FE9930.6D2855D6@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> from "Tony Dellett" at Sep 15, 98 12:43:28 pm
Message-ID: <199809151923.NAA00859@calico.litterbox.com>

I believe the C64C had a redesigned motherboard to reflect advances that had
occurred in available chips.  I know it had fewer roms, and so forth.  
I believe they also corrected defects in the power supply.  Functionally they
were supposed to be identical.
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 14:31:12 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <199809151725.NAA10846@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 14, 98 01:21:30 pm
Message-ID: <199809151931.NAA00951@calico.litterbox.com>

Okay, I have a question.  Why would one connect a serial peripheral - the 
1541 - to a parallel port on the PC?  The 64 uarts maxed at 2400 baud 
(at least for external serial, I think they could be programmed for up to
9600 baud)  are they communicating with the 1541 faster than that?
If not, why not create a serial port adapter, preferably designed to 
isolate the 1541 from expensive PC electronics?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark_k at iname.com  Tue Sep 15 14:33:08 1998
From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <yam7562.425.3965104@smtp.netcomuk.co.uk>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
>>  And 'The ANSI labeled tape spec' is available where....  ?
>
>Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
>from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
>US$32.00.

This isn't really on-topic, but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).

Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web site at
http://www.ecma.ch/.

There is at least one ECMA standard that covers tape formats; maybe it is the
same as the mentioned ANSI standard?


-- Mark



From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop  Tue Sep 15 14:59:40 1998
From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
References: <199809151931.NAA00951@calico.litterbox.com>
Message-ID: <35FEC72C.1A4608C@joyce.eng.yale.eduop>

Jim wrote:
> 
> Okay, I have a question.  Why would one connect a serial peripheral - the
> 1541 - to a parallel port on the PC?  The 64 uarts maxed at 2400 baud
> (at least for external serial, I think they could be programmed for up to
> 9600 baud)  are they communicating with the 1541 faster than that?
> If not, why not create a serial port adapter, preferably designed to
> isolate the 1541 from expensive PC electronics?
> --
> Jim Strickland
> jim@calico.litterbox.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

The simple answer... It's easier to brute force the control lines and
such using the parallel port than serial port.

Tony


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Sep 15 15:02:39 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: X-1541 cable - beware
In-Reply-To: <35FEC72C.1A4608C@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> from "Tony Dellett" at Sep 15, 98 03:59:40 pm
Message-ID: <199809152002.OAA01149@calico.litterbox.com>

Ah.  That makes sense.  And the problem that it's causing is an over-voltage
issue?
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Tue Sep 15 15:15:11 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
Message-ID: <980915161511.284@trailing-edge.com>

>>Should've answered this in the previous message: you can order a copy
>>from http://www.ansi.org/, the designation is ANSI X3.27, and it costs 
>>US$32.00.
>This isn't really on-topic

I'd disagree - it certainly *is* on topic.  The standards used to produce
magnetic and other computer media are of extreme interest to me, both
professionally and otherwise :-).

> but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
>have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).

It looks to me like ECMA-13, "File Structure and Labelling of Magnetic 
Tapes for Information Interchange", may be the equivalent.

>Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
>identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web site at
>http://www.ecma.ch/.

ECMA-13 isn't available electronically, but it does indeed seem to be
the case that they will provide hardcopy free of charge.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          Voice: 301-767-5917
 7328 Bradley Blvd                 Fax:   301-767-5927
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817


From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Sep 15 15:21:15 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Eric Smith wrote:
Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:
> As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down =
> to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's =
> auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, =
> whereas the Mac version does not.

No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Eric
--- end of quote ---

I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say:

"Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac
and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my
understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its
power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy.  The Mac drive
does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a
floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system
software.

See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.

FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa
hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific
tasks.  That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like
formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk.  The
Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it --
COPS, control oriented processing system."

-- MB


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 15:16:04 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:43:32 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980913211629.10270B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980915201604.2512.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001.  The
> Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM,
> cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080.  However,
> the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192,
> 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped
> graphics).

The ISC 8001 used bit-mapped graphics.  Carl Friend has one in his collection:

http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/machines/ISC8001.html


From heavy at ctesc.net  Tue Sep 15 15:25:02 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>

This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally
try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim

>On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 & Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker and Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> two haikus in a message
>> about haikus in a message
>> What a good thing Haikus are
>
>This is not haiku
>You must adhere to structure
>Five seven five dude
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
>dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

             "I wish I was deep, instead of just macho."
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
    http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/index.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 15:29:55 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:34:07 -0400)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Griffiths wrote:
> And the TRS-80 would have driven Apple into receivership by 1980 if it
> hadn't been for VisiCalc -- that one product saved the whole company,
> allowing it to survive long enough to produce the Lisa and the Mac,

Having been involved with both TRS-80s and Apple ][s from 1976 to 1984,
I seriously doubt that the TRS-80 posed a serious threat to the Apple ][,
or vice versa.  Aside from Visicalc, there were still many compelling
advantages of each type of system.

> causing the plague of GUIs that haunts us more every day.  (Oh, the
> GUIs would _exist_, but there wouldn't have been so much _pressure_).

GUIs have become dominant because they are what people want.

Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.  The simple fact is that GUIs make
doing some kinds of tasks much easier.

Unfortunately many designers have seized upon that and tried to eliminate
the command-line interface entirely, not recognizing that there is another
class of tasks that are exceedingly difficult to do with GUIs.

Eric


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 15 15:48:50 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:38 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

I have in my collection a couple of Kaypro and Osborne computers.
It seems all of them have some sort of floppy drive problem.
Perhaps alignment problems or bad controllers.

I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
CP/M's.?

Thanks.. Phil


From cgregory at lrbcg.com  Tue Sep 15 15:51:28 1998
From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Fw: PCjr available to good home (Ohio)
Message-ID: <006801bde0ea$9cb94ac0$9927a2ce@cgregory>

Please contact Birger directly if you are interested in the PCjr.

Cliff Gregory
cgregory@lrbcg.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Gregory <cgregory@lrbcg.com>
To: Birger A. Bentsen <ansgar@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: PCjr


>Hi Birger,
>
>Thanks for the inquiry.  I already have a fair quantity of PCjr hardware,
so
>I really wouldn't be interested in any more at this time; however with your
>permission I can post the availability of the computer with various
>newsgroups and mailing lists that I subscribe to.  Surely there will be
>someone there who would give it a nice home.  Please don't discard this
>classic.  Let me know if it is OK to post your message.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cliff Gregory
>cgregory@lrbcg.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Birger A. Bentsen <ansgar@ix.netcom.com>
>To: cgregory@lrbcg.com <cgregory@lrbcg.com>
>Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 8:07 AM
>Subject: PCjr
>
>
>>Cliff Gregory:
>>I contacted the PCjr Club in Eugene, OR, asking if the club knew of
>>anyone who might be interested in a PCjr. I received an e-mail message
>>listing your name as someone who might be able to "find a home" for my
>>old PCjr.
>>I have one PCjr Enhanced Version in working order. I don't want to throw
>>it away, rather, I would like to find someone who might want to keep it.
>>
>>Let me know if you are interested. I live in Riverside, a suburb of
>>Dayton, OH.
>>
>>
>



From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 16:03:30 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> (Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU)
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <19980915210330.2804.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote about Lisa vs. Macintosh 400K disk drives:

> No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject.  The eject when the
> white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button
> doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply.

Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote:

> I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say:
> 
> "Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac
> and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my
> understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its
> power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy.  The Mac drive
> does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a
> floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system
> software.
> 
> See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.

I don't have Sun's Lisa repair manual (though I'd like to get one);
I have Apple's.  The replacement part numbers for Macintosh and Lisa 400K
drive mechanisms are identical.  No big surprise, since the drive was
originally designed for the Macintosh, not for the Lisa.

I've replaced broken Lisa drives with Macintosh drives, and they still
eject when the Lisa is powered down.

Furthermore, it can easily be demonstrated that if you pull the power plug
on a running Lisa, the disk doesn't eject.

And they would have needed a whopping big capacitor to store enough energy
to operate the eject mechanism once the power has failed, since there's no
signal from the computer to the disk drive that provides any advance notice
of imminent power loss.

I stand by my claim that the Lisa's power-down eject is done by software.

This was true of the Lisa's original Twiggy drive as well.  The schematics
show no sign of any power-fail detection.

> FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa
> hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific
> tasks.  That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like
> formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk.

That's also why the Lisa was so f'ing expensive.  Putting in special
hardware to handle infrequent operations like formatting disks is a
waste of money.  Anyhow, they could have used an industry-standard disk
controller chip and saved money over either the Mac or Lisa implementation,
but they didn't because that had an extremely severe case of NIH Syndrome.

> The Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it --
> COPS, control oriented processing system."

The Lisa's keyboard is no smarter (and arguably dumber) than a standard
PC keyboard.  The Lisa keyboard contains a 4-bit National Semiconductor
COPS microcontroller, which almost all PC keyboards contain 8-bit Intel
8048 or 8051-family microcontrollers.

The Lisa I/O board contains another COPS for communicating with the keyboard,
which was overkill.  It would have been completely unjustified, except that
they used it for the RTC also.  IBM added another Intel 8-bitter (8042) to
talk to the keyboard in the PC/AT, which was only actually needed because
they needed a way for the 286 processor to make some piece of external
hardware generate a processor reset in order to return from protected mode
to real mode.

Don't get me wrong; I think the Lisa is a neat machine, and I have several of
them.  But the hardware engineering tradeoffs that were made were completely
absurd, as was proven by the disappointing sales.

Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Sep 15 16:12:01 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]> (message from Jim Weiler on
	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:25:02 -0500)
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com> <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <19980915211201.2875.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
> when Japan is west of us?)

A quick glance at a globe confirms that Japan is most definitely in the east.
In fact, it is east of all of the United States, with the exception of a small
portion of Alaska that happens to be in the far east.

Don't get directions confused with locations.  It is often the case that the
fastest way to get to the east is to travel west.

Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers from
the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080 clone
(though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][ clone.

Eric


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 16:29:50 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion
Message-ID: <1feea65e.35fedc4e@aol.com>

www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/index.html


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 16:33:21 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: OFFTOPIC! Re: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915143026.28408B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler wrote:

> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
> when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
> altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
> structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally

Westernized Haiku
Sucks the very great big one
Tradition is best

> try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
> in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
> adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim

It doesn't take much creativity to make a "haiku" that allows free form.
One of the beautiful things about true Haiku is the craft that goes into
each.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 13:27:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980914212347.23462D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 14, 98 09:24:54 pm
Message-ID: <m0zIzoy-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 13:46:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
In-Reply-To: <8438898@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 15, 98 12:20:42 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ07V-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From heavy at ctesc.net  Tue Sep 15 17:07:15 1998
From: heavy at ctesc.net (Jim Weiler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: OFFTOPIC! Re: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915143026.28408B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <v04011705b224942a28d6@[10.1.115.19]>

>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Weiler & Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> This is not really true. Since Haiku was Westernized (Why do we say this,
>> when Japan is west of us?) haiku written by/for English language has
>> altered the syllabelization. I'm not really sure of the reasons for this
>> structure change, but it is considered acceptable. However, I personally
>
>Westernized Haiku
>Sucks the very great big one
>Tradition is best
>
>> try and adhere to the traditional structure, and I think for a use such as
>> in error messages for computers, I agree with Sam's response; we should
>> adhere to the traditional structure. -Jim
>
>It doesn't take much creativity to make a "haiku" that allows free form.
>One of the beautiful things about true Haiku is the craft that goes into
>each.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail:
>dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

I agree with you. -Jim :-)

I wish I was deep
for reasons incomprehensible
instead of just macho

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  mailto:heavy@ctesc.net * Jim Weiler * http://pages.tstar.net/~heavy
         http://home.talkcity.com/MigrationPath/blackbeardtcc/
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 "Transitions are golden opportunities to shake out the old, welcome
  in the new and mix to a fine blend all the possibilities that life
  has to offer. You're not falling apart, you're growing!" (unknown)


From tomowad at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 15 17:14:13 1998
From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
Message-ID: <199809152214.PAA08064@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

>Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers from
>the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080 clone
>(though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][ clone.

I had a Korean Apple II clone.  It was in a white case similiar to the 
Franklin Ace.  The keyboard had an ordinairy US layout, for the most 
part, but the keys were also labeled in Korean.  A key combo was used to 
switch between the two alphapbets.

Tom Owad

--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Sep 15 17:37:55 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple ][ keyboard encoder
In-Reply-To: <m0zIzoy-000IyOC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915153714.28408D-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> I was under the impression (from reading the manuals, all my Apple ][s 
> have autostart and applesoft ROMs) that you could have either monitor 
> (autostart or old monitor) with either BASIC (applesoft or integer). 
> 
> Is this not the case ? Prodos may require Applesoft BASIC, but that 
> doesn't mean it needs the autostart ROM.

That's probably a safe guess.  Coming after the original ][ (I started on
the ][+) I'm not an expert on autostart vs. original ROMs and what the
older is or isn't capable of.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 18:00:34 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com>


Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Sep 15 18:04:44 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Tape Storage for Dummies
In-Reply-To: CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com
        "RE: Tape Storage for Dummies" (Sep 15, 16:15)
References: <980915161511.284@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <9809160004.ZM10668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Sep 15, 16:15, CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com wrote:
> Subject: RE: Tape Storage for Dummies
[Attribution lost] wrote:
> > but quite a few "common" ISO/ANSI standards seem to
> >have ECMA equivalents (ISO9660 is a definite example).
>
> It looks to me like ECMA-13, "File Structure and Labelling of Magnetic
> Tapes for Information Interchange", may be the equivalent.
>
> >Copies of these standards cost money to obtain from ISO or ANSI, but the
> >identical ECMA documents are available free of charge from the ECMA web
site at
> >http://www.ecma.ch/.
>
> ECMA-13 isn't available electronically, but it does indeed seem to be
> the case that they will provide hardcopy free of charge.

Many of the ISO standards are just the nationally-approved copies of the
ECMA standards.  As has been pointed out, they're not all available online,
but they will supply hardcopy free -- it just takes several weeks to get
them :-)  Or you can order the ECMA CD-ROM, which has most of the
standards, including many that are not online.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 18:07:46 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Sep 15, 98 04:48:50 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ4CL-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 18:14:43 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Sep 15, 98 04:21:15 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ4J5-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Sep 15 07:43:27 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Apple IIe SCSI II interface & CDROM Drive
References: <19980914221003.11301.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FE60EF.F9C28C3E@sprintmail.com>

I reciently purchased an Apple IIe computer. The computer was in mint
condition with every add-on you could think of and I am adding it to my
collection.
This is my first experiance with an Apple and I do not think I will ever
need the CDROM on it so I have removed it from the unit. I did not even know
that Apple IIe used CDROMS, and I know of  no software for it..

If anyone can use the combo please make me a resonable offer as I do not
need them.

1.  Apple CD model 150, external CDROM Drive
2.  SCSI interface board by CMS, SCSI II..

 I am assuming it works as the computer is in perfect condition, however it
came without any software, books or CD's.. SO I cannot guaranty it works..
Gudging by the rest of the unit it should work..

Phil...




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 15 19:42:00 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Mon Sep 14 16:01:38 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: COMPUTER HAIKU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980915110910.8520B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <199809160105.VAA13454@smtp.interlog.com>

On 15 Sep 98 at 11:17, Sam Ismail wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> 
> > two haikus in a message 
> > about haikus in a message
> > What a good thing Haikus are
> 
> This is not haiku
> You must adhere to structure
> Five seven five dude
> 
> Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com

  It is a Canadian Haiku.
 We often have to tighten our belts.
 And we don't drop ehs

Oh well ,back to Watts and Suzuki.

ciao		larry
lwalker@interlog.com


From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 20:26:11 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: new additions
Message-ID: <342f69b7.35ff13b3@aol.com>

i posted an old computers wanted ad in a local newsgroup and today i came home
with a sanyo mbc-1000 cpm computer. came in its original box and plastic wrap
and included system disks and manuals and wordstar, reportstar, and datastar,
calcstar and mailmerge on original disks. i also got a star gemini10 printer.
the proof of purchase shows over $1700. system is very clean and booted up
with no problems. even has a pleasant keyclick through the speaker too. i also
got a lead on some dec stuff, but no reply back from the induhvidual yet.

david


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:40:40 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980916014041.28834.qmail@hotmail.com>





You don't have the schematics for this anywhere? The PSU is separate
and it looks like I could plug in a PC power supply if I knew pinout.
As for useful things, I would also suggest an older model printer,
a 5.25" drive, and, if possible, an 8" drive. Then, I would say a
VOM is obligatory either way.

>
>This is rapidly becoming a FAQ here - how to convert between 110V and 
>220V mains.
>
>By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It 
>doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is 
fine. 
>You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are 
>fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the 
States.
>
>If you can't find a suitable transformer, then there's a sort-of kludge 
>that works, but you need to take a little care when wiring it up.
>
>Get a mains transformer with _2_ 115V (or thereabouts) primary 
windings. 
>Such transformers are fairly common, since by connecting the primaries 
in 
>parallel you can use them in the States, and by connecting them is 
series 
>(230V) you can use them in Europe. It doesn't matter what the 
secondaries 
>are, as you're not going to use them.
>
>Connect the windings in series, like you would for 230V mains. Connect 
>the output across the 2 windings. Connect the 115V mains across one of 
>them. In effect you're using the primaries as an autotransformer.
>
>The power rating of the transformer that you use should be about twice 
>that of the computer you want to run. That gives a reasonable safety 
margin.
>
>Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
>against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
>outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever 
into.
>
>It may be possible to modify the PSU. If it uses an iron-core 50Hz/60Hz 
>transformer, then look to see if there are 2 primaries wired in series 
>for 220V mains. Connect them in parallel for 110V mains - taking care 
to 
>get the relative polarity correct. I'll not give any more details, 
>because it really depends on the PSU design what you should do.
>
>For a switcher, the input circuit is often a bridge rectifier for 230V 
>mains. If you can convert this to a voltage doubler, and if there's no 
>line-frequency transformer for a start-up supply, then it should work.
>
>A lot of switchers have 2 smoothing capacitors in series - look for 2 
>large capacitors of about 470uF at 200V. Connecting the centre-tap of 
>these to one side of the mains (after the switch/fuse/filter) will do 
it. 
>Often there's a link on the PCB (marked 'link for 115V' or something 
like 
>that) for this purpose. Again, knowing how PSUs work is a great help 
here.
>
>But I'd recomend the step-up transformer in your case. It avoids 
>modification, and it's safe.
>
>How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even 
>for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with 
the 
>following... Feel free to add things
>
>A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. 
I.e. 
>a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for 
>the states.
>
>A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
>standards (almost all will do that).
>
>An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
>
>A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program)
>
>One of those RS232 quicktesters with red/green LEDs. (I use mine more 
>than my Tektronix datacomms analyser)
>
>An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains 
>leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - 
RCA, 
>BNC, PL259, etc)
>
>-tony
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From mbg at world.std.com  Tue Sep 15 20:41:32 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: [OT] west vs. east (was Re: COMPUTER HAIKU)
References: <199809151725.NAA10872@smtp.interlog.com>
    <v04011703b2247af33c4a@[10.1.115.19]>
Message-ID: <199809160141.AA09255@world.std.com>


>Speaking of things from the East, does anyone have any microcomputers
>from the former Soviet Union?  Reportedly they made some sort of 8080
>clone (though it was in a 48-pin package); I've also heard of an Apple ][
>clone.

I have a friend who has obtained the Soviet version of the pdp-11, the
UKNC, for me.  I just have to get some parts to him so that he can
complete it...

It'll even have a russian variant of RT-11 on it...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Tue Sep 15 20:44:02 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980915151749.28df8b74@ricochet.net>

At 11:18 AM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>With such a card I can construct a minimal, full system on an old
>386sx I have using only one expansion slot, which is a necessity.

I came across a couple of small systems made by SIIG (who makes expansion
cards now) that are the size of a small shoebox (not my shoes; Rachel's)
and are complete systems with I/O, Video, FDC, HDC, etc.  Room for a single
3.5" floppy and one 3.5"hd.  One 16-bit expansion slot.  

Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines, but they work
great for my voicemail system (which can run fine on an 8088).  I would
love to find such a box with something more current, but SIIG doesn't
mention them on their web site.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 15 23:14:26 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
References: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at
 Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm
Message-ID: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]>

>How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even
>for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the
>following... Feel free to add things
>
>A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e.
>a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for
>the states.

One of these day's I _REALLY_ want to find time to build a "Universal"
powersupply, that will feed a basically any piece of microcomputer hardware
given the correct cabling.  Powersupplies are the first thing that
disappears after the documentation and software.

>A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV
>standards (almost all will do that).
>
>An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates

My PowerMac 8500 has a AV card in it which allows it to function as a
colour NTSC and PAL TV.  I've used it as an Amiga 2000 monitor before.

>A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program)

I like an old laptop for this, I've got an old 386sx/16 that I paid
$2600.00 for, so I like to still get a little use out of it :^)  (Yes, I
bought it new)

>An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains
>leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - RCA,
>BNC, PL259, etc)

Not only a varied assortment of cables, but also the materials to make your
own, and gender changers for DB9 and DB25 (I never have the right gender
cable).

Basically I make it a habit to collect all cables, documentation, and
powersupplies that I can, it doens't matter if I don't have a computer to
go with them.

Of course the #1 useful item is a large amount of storage space.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 15 23:18:23 1998
From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <v04011704b224ec2b3dc6@[207.220.32.241]>

>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.

Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500,
A-600, A-1200?  I know that for these systems the best powersupply is the
one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From marvin at rain.org  Tue Sep 15 22:21:16 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Here's something to consider.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org>

Eric Smith wrote:
> 
> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
> interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
> evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

That would depend on your definition of "forced".  There will always be
people who go their own way, but for others needing to interact with how
things are done today, "forced" is exactly what has happened.


From marvin at rain.org  Tue Sep 15 22:36:02 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
References: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <35FF3222.98126C9E@rain.org>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 

> > Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
> > Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
> 
> By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It
> doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is fine.
> You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are
> fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the States.

Before I left for Europe, I checked out voltage converters here in the US. 
For about $25 or so, a 100 watt transformer can be purchased that can be
used as either a step-up or step-down transformer.  I suspect 100 watts is
the maximum short term draw, and continuous is most likely about 60 watts or
so.


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Sep 16 05:02:31 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
Message-ID: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K 
> drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) 
> which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not 
> used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa.

I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 
3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch.

Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From IVIE at cc.usu.edu  Wed Sep 16 06:26:19 1998
From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
Message-ID: <01J1V0IMBK6A8WXJ2V@cc.usu.edu>

Uncle Roger said:
>I came across a couple of small systems ...
> that are the size of a small shoebox ...
> Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ...
> I would
> love to find such a box with something more current ...

http://www.mod.com/html/desktop_products.html

The only thing that might possibly link this to being on-topic is that
this is Ken Olsen's new company.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu


From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Sep 16 07:10:56 1998
From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk>

On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:

> How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even 
> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the 
> following... Feel free to add things
> 
> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. 
> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for 
> the states.
> 
> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
> standards (almost all will do that).
> 
> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates

The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
screen displays?

Phil



**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester

Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From oajones at bright.net  Wed Sep 16 07:07:25 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
Message-ID: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>

I have the following items for sale:

1. Cartridges:
Music Machine
Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs)
Fast Load
Visible Solar System
Oil's Well

2. C2N Cassette Unit

3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable)

I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone
is interested please send me email.

--Alan


From bede0005 at tc.umn.edu  Wed Sep 16 07:56:05 1998
From: bede0005 at tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <19980915210330.2804.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980916075503.14519A-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>


> > See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature.
> 
> I don't have Sun's Lisa repair manual (though I'd like to get one);
> I have Apple's.  The replacement part numbers for Macintosh and Lisa 400K
> drive mechanisms are identical.  No big surprise, since the drive was
> originally designed for the Macintosh, not for the Lisa.


I have a copy of this document on my Lisa web site at
http://www.asap.net/~rbedeaux/lisa


rob



From mtapley at swri.edu  Wed Sep 16 11:22:32 1998
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Rainbows and S/W for sale.
Message-ID: <l03102803b225944d1753@[129.162.151.33]>

All,
	spotted this on the comp.sys.dec.micro newsgroup. Please reply to
him, not me. I love my Rainbow but don't know anything about his :-) Also,
you probably should check out ftp.update.uu.se in the /pub/rainbow
directory to see whether there's anything there that might suit your
Rainbow software needs better. Or check it out to see what a wonderful
variety of reasons there is to get a Rainbow!
						- Mark
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Path:
Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.r
cn.net!rcn!news-xfer.netaxs.com!feed.centuryinter.net!not-for-mail
From: aljohnson@centuryinter.net
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro
Subject: FS:  Misc DEC Software for DEC rainbow and Hardware
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 04:52:05 GMT
Organization: CENTURYinter.net
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <N.091598.235205.05@ppp093.av.centuryinter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp093.av.centuryinter.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]
Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:67074 comp.sys.dec.micro:9067

I have misc software including wordprocessing, multiplan, operating stuff for
dec rainbows and similar machines. Have several rainbow machines and some
cables.  Parting out all of it CHEAP.  Software a buck a box,  Hardware a buck
a part.  Most but not all software is still in plastic.  Got to get rid of
it.

Please email with any question.

Allen
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From fmc at reanimators.org  Wed Sep 16 11:43:12 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: Phil Clayton's message of Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:48:50 -0400
References: <8445510@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> <35FED2B2.763B@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809161643.JAA24573@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> CP/M's.?

Kaypro: yes
Osborne: I dunno

I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
else to jump in and correct me.

-Frank McConnell



From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Wed Sep 16 12:58:13 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <199809161643.JAA24573@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980916105618.1301A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:

> Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> > CP/M's.?
> 
> Kaypro: yes
> Osborne: I dunno
> 
> I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
> somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
> one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
> else to jump in and correct me.

You are correct.  The Obsorne drives feed power on the drive data cable
and connecting them to other configurations tends to cause the 'magic
smoke' to escape...

I've even got a drive exerciser in the collection that has special
connections to support the Osborne drives...

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 13:18:57 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980916105618.1301A-100000@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <36000111.56FB@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

James Willing wrote:
> 
> On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
> 
> > Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?
> > > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old
> > > CP/M's.?
> >
> > Kaypro: yes
> > Osborne: I dunno
> >
> > I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power
> > somewhere on the ribbon cable.  But it's been a while since I had
> > one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone
> > else to jump in and correct me.
> 
> You are correct.  The Obsorne drives feed power on the drive data cable
> and connecting them to other configurations tends to cause the 'magic
> smoke' to escape...
> 
> I've even got a drive exerciser in the collection that has special
> connections to support the Osborne drives...
> 
> -jim

OK I Thank everyone for the input.. Kaypro is no problem..

Then that brings me to the next question.
Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
Osborne 01?
Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?

Thanks... Phil...


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:17:48 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1> (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: <m0zJ5fZ-000IyMC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <19980916191748.7793.qmail@brouhaha.com>

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
> against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
> outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into.

I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason it's against code is that they
assume that European 220V equipment will be wired for one side of the
line being neutral, whereas a 220V outlet here in the US has both sides
hot.

If it's properly grounded equipment, this shouldn't matter.  But if it's
ungrounded equipment, it could be a safety hazard.


From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Wed Sep 16 10:28:53 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <199809161905.PAA32116@commercial.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:10:56 +0100 (BST)
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          "Phil Beesley" <PB14@leicester.ac.uk>
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject:       Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

> On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:

Snip!

> 
> The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
> TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
> Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
> seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
> years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
> snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
> Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
> screen displays?
> 
> Phil

Several others like Nec 3D for composite  and Iiyama MF5117 will do 
that except it can't do composite.

But, better get that Nec Multisync rebuilt with new tube (tubes are 
fairly standard nothing special about them)  and many capacitors, 
whole board resolder work if you can afford that. I don't know who is 
still making like this kind of features and this rebuilding expense 
should worth the trouble.

Jason D.

> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
> University of Leicester
> 
> Tel (0)116 252-2231
> E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk
> 
> 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:23:21 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]> (healyzh@ix.netcom.com)
References: <19980915230034.14744.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at
 Sep 15, 98 04:00:34 pm <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]>
Message-ID: <19980916192321.7822.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> One of these day's I _REALLY_ want to find time to build a "Universal"
> powersupply, that will feed a basically any piece of microcomputer hardware
> given the correct cabling.  Powersupplies are the first thing that
> disappears after the documentation and software.

I bought one last year.  An HP E3631A.  Quite nice, but a bit pricey
(around $1000).

IMHO, having a power supply with adjustable current limiting is absolutely
essential to bringing up old DC-powered equipment in unknown condition.

For similar reasons, a variac and an isolation transformer are desirable for
working on AC-powered equipment.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:29:36 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Tue, 15 Sep
	1998 20:21:16 -0700)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org>
Message-ID: <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>

I wrote:

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WIMP
> interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And there's no
> evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

Marvin <marvin@rain.org> replies:

> That would depend on your definition of "forced".  There will always be
> people who go their own way, but for others needing to interact with how
> things are done today, "forced" is exactly what has happened.

There is a small minority that dislikes GUIs.  I've seen no evidence
that any substantial number of people were forced into GUIs; most people seem
to like them.  Since deployment of Windows started as a fairly gradual thing,
and gained momentum at an exponential rate, it is obvious that the majority
of users must have preferred it.

With any new development, there will always be some group that
don't like it, but get forced along.

The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xerox
work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xerox
people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would have
happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 14:33:37 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk> (PB14@leicester.ac.uk)
References: <4864C641B2@orchid.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <19980916193337.7912.qmail@brouhaha.com>

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote:

> One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K 
> drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) 
> which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not 
> used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa.

"Phil Beesley" <PB14@leicester.ac.uk> wrote:

> I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 
> 3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch.

Furthermore, Apple implemented the switch such that it doesn't actually
force the drive to eject the disk.  If the computer configures the drive
appropriately, the switch will simply generate a request to software.
For instance, if you install an external Apple 3.5 drive or SuperDrive
(FDHD) on a Macintosh IIcx or IIci, pressing the button on the drive
causes the driver to post an event that is equivalent to hitting
Command-Shift-2 on the keyboard.

The Apple IIgs software might also use the button in this way; I haven't
checked.



From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep 16 14:54:44 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <36000111.56FB@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916125111.5111A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> James Willing wrote:
> > 
> > On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
> > 
> > > Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> > > > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> > > > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..?

**** snip ****

> Then that brings me to the next question.
> Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
> Osborne 01?
> Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
> Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?
> 
> Thanks... Phil...

Courtesy of the chap who sent it to me some time back: 

						 - don

 
The disk controller chip used on the main logic board is the Fujitsu 8877, 
equivalent to the Western Digital 1793.  The following pinouts apply to the
disk cable connector on the main logic board.
 
pin  1  GND
     2  GND
     3  GND
     4  GND
     5  GND
     6  GND
     7  GND
     8  INDEX
     9  GND
    10  DRIVE SELECT 1
    11  +12 volts
    12  DRIVE SELECT 2
    13  +12 volts
    14  NC
    15  +12 volts
    16  4mhz clock
    17  +12 volts
    18  DIR
    19  GND
    20  STEP
    21  +5 volts
    22  WRITE DATA
    23  +5 volts
    24  WRITE GATE
    25  +5 volts
    26  TRACK 00
    27  GND
    28  WRITE PROTECT
    29  GND
    30  READ DATA
    31  GND
    32  SIDE SELECT
    33  GND
    34  LATE
 
Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts
 
  



From g at ehrich.com  Wed Sep 16 15:38:21 1998
From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: old stuff for sale
In-Reply-To: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>
Message-ID: <199809162031.NAA22750@mxu2.u.washington.edu>

I have lots of old stuff for sale on my web site at

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic

Take a look and while you are there try the

1. Riddles
2. Brain Teasers
3. HTML Color Chart
4. Sale Lists
------------------------------------------------------

http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
gene@ehrich.com
Gene Ehrich   P.O. Box 209   Marlton NJ   08053-0209
------------------------------------------------------ 


From roblwill at usaor.net  Wed Sep 16 14:30:08 1998
From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <199809162045.QAA22589@gate.usaor.net>

One RGB monitor that I have is a Magnavox Professional.  It has composite
input, RGB input, and another input that I don't have the cable for.  I
like it because it also is capable of displaying Monochrome (green) display
in either CGA/RGB, Composite, or Monochrome mode.  I think the third
connector is to connect it to a Hercules card, but I don't have the cable
(not the same as RGB cable.
--       
         -Jason
(roblwill@usaor.net)
   ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Phil Beesley <PB14@leicester.ac.uk>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 8:10 AM
> 
> On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even

> > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with
the 
> > following... Feel free to add things
> > 
> > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard.
I.e. 
> > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for

> > the states.
> > 
> > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
> > standards (almost all will do that).
> > 
> > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
> 
> The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
> TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
> Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
> seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
> years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
> snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
> Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
> screen displays?
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
> University of Leicester
> 
> Tel (0)116 252-2231
> E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk


From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:56:17 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
References: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916125111.5111A-100000@crash.cts.com>
Message-ID: <360025F1.192A@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>

Don Maslin wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> 
> James Willing wrote:
> On 16 Sep 1998, Frank McConnell wrote:
>
> Phil Clayton <handyman@sprintmail.com> writes:
> I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's
> is it possible to use these to replace my defective CP/M drives.?
> 
> **** snip ****
> 
> Then that brings me to the next question.
> Can I do some modification to my old XT drive to get it to work on the
> Osborne 01?
> Understand the Power in the ribbon thing..
> Does anyone have a pin-out if it can be done..?
> 
> Thanks... Phil...
> 
> Courtesy of the chap who sent it to me some time back:
> 
>                                                  - don
> 
> 
> The disk controller chip used on the main logic board is the Fujitsu 8877,
> equivalent to the Western Digital 1793.  The following pinouts apply to the
> disk cable connector on the main logic board.
> 
> pin  1  GND
>      2  GND
>      3  GND
>      4  GND
>      5  GND
>      6  GND
>      7  GND
>      8  INDEX
>      9  GND
>     10  DRIVE SELECT 1
>     11  +12 volts
>     12  DRIVE SELECT 2
>     13  +12 volts
>     14  NC
>     15  +12 volts
>     16  4mhz clock
>     17  +12 volts
>     18  DIR
>     19  GND
>     20  STEP
>     21  +5 volts
>     22  WRITE DATA
>     23  +5 volts
>     24  WRITE GATE
>     25  +5 volts
>     26  TRACK 00
>     27  GND
>     28  WRITE PROTECT
>     29  GND
>     30  READ DATA
>     31  GND
>     32  SIDE SELECT
>     33  GND
>     34  LATE
> 
> Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts

Don: 
Thanks very much for the info.. Are you saying that indeed the 360KB XT
floppy drives will work in the osborne 01, if I correctly modify the
cable ? 
Have you actually done this yourself?  Has anyone else done this before
?

Phil...


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:56:15 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: C128D
Message-ID: <19980916205616.25436.qmail@hotmail.com>



No, this is an internal PSU.


>
>>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version.
>>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch)
>>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU.
>
>Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500,
>A-600, A-1200?  I know that for these systems the best powersupply is 
the
>one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage.
>
>			Zane
>| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
>| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
>| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
>|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
>|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:59:29 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
Message-ID: <19980916205930.12795.qmail@hotmail.com>





Most flat screen displays use analog SVGA signals. They're trying to
elminiate SVGA, and have pure digital signals, which is how it should
be for a TFT screen. When this happens, you'll have a harder time
using it with old machines. Eventually, CRTs may be relegated to
second place (kinda like dot matrix printers).
>> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with 
the 
>> following... Feel free to add things
>> 
>> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. 
I.e. 
>> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer 
for 
>> the states.
>> 
>> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV 
>> standards (almost all will do that).
>> 
>> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates
>
>The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at 
>TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a 
>Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that 
>seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten 
>years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are 
>snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? 
>Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat 
>screen displays?
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>**************************************************************
>Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
>University of Leicester
>
>Tel (0)116 252-2231
>E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Sep 16 16:06:25 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)
In-Reply-To: <01J1V0IMBK6A8WXJ2V@cc.usu.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980916160625.2ed7be68@intellistar.net>

At 04:26 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Uncle Roger said:
>>I came across a couple of small systems ...
>> that are the size of a small shoebox ...
>> Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ...
>> I would
>> love to find such a box with something more current ...


 I have a small box made by Advanced Modular Solutions for NASA that's
about third the size of shoe box.  It's about 3" wide x 4 1/2" tall x 10"
long and has a 50 MHz 486 SLC processor with math coprocessor, 16 Mb of
memory, a 1 Gig hard drive, LAN port, serial port and 2 parallel ports, PS
2 keyboard and mouse ports and super VGA built-in.  Right now it's running
Windozes 95.  There's a picture of it and a 3/5 floppy at
"http://www.mod.com/html/simplified.html".   I'll sell it for $150 if you
want it.

   Joe



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 16 17:35:49 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> There is a small minority that dislikes GUIs.  I've seen no evidence
> that any substantial number of people were forced into GUIs; most people seem
> to like them.  Since deployment of Windows started as a fairly gradual thing,
> and gained momentum at an exponential rate, it is obvious that the majority
> of users must have preferred it.

Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major
improvement for the dopes...er non-computer types.  For guys like me its
a nuisance.  I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when
I need to do REAL work.

The last thing I want decisions on future products to be based on is
popular opinion, as that is often unreliable and contrary to what I would
prefer.  Look at the polls on Clinton for example.

> With any new development, there will always be some group that
> don't like it, but get forced along.

We don't have to accept it either.


Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 17:40:06 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:35:49 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916153033.29276A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
> because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
> necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
> are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major

I *NEVER* said that GUI was better.  I said that GUIs became popular because
people liked them, not because (as someone else claimed) Apple forced it
down their throats.

Beta was technically better than VHS.  But VHS won because the consumers
preferred it.  Not the engineers, not the marketers, not the sales people.
The CONSUMERS.

And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
marketing.  If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued
to refer to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is
widely believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
in advertising.

Eric



From donm at cts.com  Wed Sep 16 18:03:12 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:39 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drive compatability
In-Reply-To: <360025F1.192A@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916155653.20129A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Don Maslin wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
> > 

**** snip ****

> > Figure 7.3 Main Board Disk Cable Connector Pinouts
> 
> Don: 
> Thanks very much for the info.. Are you saying that indeed the 360KB XT
> floppy drives will work in the osborne 01, if I correctly modify the
> cable ? 
> Have you actually done this yourself?  Has anyone else done this before
> ?
> 
In reverse order, Phil, no I have not done it myself.  However, I can see 
no obvious reasons why it could not be done as the drive mechanisms must 
be quite similar.  It would require some fancy 'wire-weaving' though 
considering drive placement.
						 - don

 


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 12:53:48 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916014041.28834.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Sep 15, 98 06:40:40 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJLm4-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 13:13:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b224ea02bbd5@[207.220.32.241]> from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 15, 98 08:14:26 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJM5G-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 12:57:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <35FF3222.98126C9E@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 15, 98 08:36:02 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJLpB-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 13:26:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <4A8938431A@orchid.le.ac.uk> from "Phil Beesley" at Sep 16, 98 01:10:56 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJMHi-000IyRC@p850ug1>

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From jason at xio.com  Wed Sep 16 18:21:56 1998
From: jason at xio.com (Jason Simpson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
References: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net>
Message-ID: <36004792.9A6CA091@xio.com>

Sold it yet? Where are you located? I'm interested, especially in the Snapshot cart.

	-jrs

oajones wrote:
> 
> I have the following items for sale:
> 
> 1. Cartridges:
> Music Machine
> Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs)
> Fast Load
> Visible Solar System
> Oil's Well
> 
> 2. C2N Cassette Unit
> 
> 3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable)
> 
> I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone
> is interested please send me email.
> 
> --Alan

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________
 \/|/\ | Jason Simpson | http://www.xio.com/jason/
 /\|\/ | jason@xio.com | Wanted: Honda Civic VX or Volkswagen Fox Wagon


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Sep 16 18:19:41 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 16 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> Beta was technically better than VHS.  But VHS won because the consumers
> preferred it.  Not the engineers, not the marketers, not the sales people.
> The CONSUMERS.

I don't think the consumers cared either way.  They chose the technology
that had better marketing.  End of story.  This plays out time and again
in the computer industry.

> And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
> marketing.

Oh, I disagree.

> If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued to refer
> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is widely
> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
> in advertising. 

M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G

Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.

PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.

Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
caption in a magazine compels them to.  The majority of the people buying
into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From spc at armigeron.com  Wed Sep 16 16:14:54 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 10:40:06 pm
Message-ID: <199809162114.RAA29545@armigeron.com>

It was thus said that the Great Eric Smith once stated:
> 
> Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> > Or it could mean that good marketing led them in that direction.  Just
> > because people take to one technology over another does not mean its
> > necessarily better.  Take VHS vs. Beta for instance.  Some technologies
> > are better for some things.  GUI was not a cure all, but a major
> 
> I *NEVER* said that GUI was better.  I said that GUIs became popular because
> people liked them, not because (as someone else claimed) Apple forced it
> down their throats.

  For non-repetative interactive work, GUIs tend to be better, but once you
need to do something that's repetative, then the scripting or batch ability
of CLIs become better.

> And the reason that consumers preferred it was not that VHS had better
> marketing.  If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued
> to refer to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is
> widely believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this feature
> in advertising.

  Nope.  Porn.  Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses
required to produce Betamax tapes.  The adult film industry could, however,
get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over
Betamax.  At least that's the story I heard.

  -spc (Two things drive technology:  Sex and war 8-)



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Sep 16 18:26:42 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)
In-Reply-To: <m0zJMHi-000IyRC@p850ug1> from "Tony Duell" at Sep 16, 98 07:26:31 pm
Message-ID: <199809162326.RAA00355@calico.litterbox.com>

I believe (in the US at least) there are companies making monitors for 
Nintendo machines.  These would be composite monitors as well, although 
I don't know if they have rgb inputs.

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Sep 16 18:31:32 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
References: <m0zJLpB-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <36004A54.28388D45@rain.org>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> A transformer _should_ be rated for the maximum continuous RMS loading -
> and if you get one from an electronics shop, it will be ;-). Companies

I know, and that is why I bought the 50W unit.  After a while, it got rather
warm and when I checked the ratings, it said it was good for 30W
continuous.  Oh well, the breaker on it went on and off for a while before
it fused closed.  After that it *was* good for 50W continuous :).  Of
course, I kept a careful eye on how warm it was getting after that!


From IVIE at cc.usu.edu  Wed Sep 16 18:48:32 1998
From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
Message-ID: <01J1VSL7BNC29FM8TN@cc.usu.edu>

Captain Napalm said:
> Nope.  Porn.  Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses
> required to produce Betamax tapes.  The adult film industry could, however,
> get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over
> Betamax.  At least that's the story I heard.

I recently read a news story on the net regarding net.porn and porn on
DVDs. A Sony spokesman was quoted as saying the porn thing was a major
reason for the death of Betamax and they dang well were gonna make sure
people could license DVD for porn so DVD wouldn't go the way of Betamax.

Roger "Another unsubstantiated net.rumor slung your way" Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:24:20 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916191748.7793.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:17:48 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJQvw-000IyNC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:28:41 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <19980916192321.7822.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:23:21 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJR07-000IyOC@p850ug1>

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 18:30:24 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Lisa floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <19980916193337.7912.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 16, 98 07:33:37 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJR1n-000IyPC@p850ug1>

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From maxeskin at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:05:13 1998
From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
Message-ID: <19980917000513.27738.qmail@hotmail.com>





Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's
never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's
a tradeoff between product quality and marketing quality most of the
time.
Back to GUIs, I think that a GUI is very useful for some things.
For example, let's say I want to look at the files in a directory
and copy five certain ones. It's easiest to do with a GUI. Graphical
software can use either. AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version,
not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program,
usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows
buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense. One GUI I really appreciate
is the early Mac GUI, for being almost as simple and clear as a CLI.
That was really a user-friendly computer. But the lessons of PARC and
early Apple were forgotten and turned into a who-can-make-the-nicest-
3d-menu competition.
>Oh, I disagree.
>
>> If anything, Sony had better marketing.  Many people continued to 
refer
>> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s.  It is widely
>> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the
>> longer recording time per tape.  JVC rarely even mentioned this 
feature
>> in advertising. 
>
>M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
>
>Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.
>
>PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
>
>Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.
>
>Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
>majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
>caption in a magazine compels them to.  The majority of the people 
buying
>into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
>product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.
>
>Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: 
dastar@siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
>                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 16 19:06:10 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WI
< > interfaces.  Most of those same people are running GUIs now.  And ther
< > evidence that the GUIs were forced on them.

First off the early GUI interfaces were pretty primitive and deserved a
sneer.

The GUI interface we know and love is far more powerful than the originals
with the ability to manipulate data and objects.

< The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
< wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xe
< work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xero
< people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would hav
< happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.

Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.

Allison



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 16 19:01:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <36004A54.28388D45@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 16, 98 04:31:32 pm
Message-ID: <m0zJRVz-000IyMC@p850ug1>

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From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 19:26:03 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
	(message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:19:41 -0700 (PDT))
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> Oh, I disagree.
...
> M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
...
> Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.
> PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
> Those are simply two of the most obvious examples.
> 
> Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The

No, I don't see your point.  You wave around the word "Marketing" as if
it was magic.  (Which perhaps you are asserting that it is.)

However, you don't give any *evidence* to support your claims.

Although there can be no "proof" either way, I at least cited a possible
(and widely believed) non-marketing reason for the success of VHS over Beta.
You neither refuted my example, nor did you provide support for your claim
that marketing is the primary cause in your two examples.

I could just as easily claim that Mac vs. Windows and PowerPC vs. Pentium
were decided by consumers solely on the basis of cost.  I could probably
come up with half a dozen other expanations that have nothing to do with
marketing.  I don't need to invoke any mystical, unsupported "marketing"
claim.

I won't deny that marketing influences consumer perceptions and decisions;
that would be absurd.  However, I think you grossly overestimate the
degree to which marketing is able to override other considerations that
consumers may have.

For instance, before 1990, Apple had much better marketing than Microsoft,
yet Microsoft was outselling Apple by a considerable margin even then.

Eric


This isn't an argument; it's just contradiction.
No it isn't.
          -- Monty Python's argument clinic sketch


From gram at cnct.com  Wed Sep 16 20:10:41 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com>

Eric Smith wrote:

> The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we
> wouldn't be running GUIs.  This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xerox
> work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xerox
> people.  Windows might have been released later, but it still would have
> happened.  And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have.

I did not say there wouldn't be GUIs.  But without the competition
between the Mac OS and Microsoft, I seriously doubt there would have
been anything close to the marketing pressure brought to bear.  Hell,
I'm using a GUI even as I type, XFree86, so I can have several xterms
visible simultaneously while I'm using Netscrape.  I'd estimate that
GUIs would have maybe 30% of the market penetration they have now
without that competition.  And yes, there's a plus -- the demands of
Windows has spurred vastly the development of video and multimedia
hardware, as well as pushing for faster CPUs.  So I can recompile my
Linux kernel in a small fraction of the time it would have taken
otherwise.  The black cloud of Windows has produced a silver lining.
-- 
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me.  I said "Well, what do you need?"  --  Steven Wright


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Sep 16 20:21:18 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:10:41 -0400)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980914053137.10280A-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FD457F.3C62F483@cnct.com> <19980915202955.2593.qmail@brouhaha.com> <35FF2EAC.31EDD5A4@rain.org> <19980916192936.7846.qmail@brouhaha.com> <36006191.C9D50283@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram@cnct.com> wrote:
> I did not say there wouldn't be GUIs.  But without the competition
> between the Mac OS and Microsoft, I seriously doubt there would have
> been anything close to the marketing pressure brought to bear.

I still disagree.

If Apple hadn't introduced the Lisa, the war might have been between
Microsoft, Digital Research, Amiga, GEOS, or any number of other contenders.

If any one company started having even a modest amount of success with a
GUI, everyone else would have followed suit.

Eventually there would have been one hugely successful GUI, and perhaps one
moderately successful one.  Few people would care about the also-rans.


From foxnhare at goldrush.com  Wed Sep 16 20:50:04 1998
From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?  & X1541 Repost
References: <199809160702.AAA19884@lists3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <36006ACC.A92146F1@goldrush.com>

> From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
> 
> I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
> 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
> 64C looks like a 128.

Generally they are exatly the same except the 64C went through a couple of
later board revisions that noticibly cut down the chip count and the board
size (and not to mention the production cost too).

One 'bug' that resulted is that the 64C's SID chip was 'fixed' of a clicking
sound when you change volume levels.  Unfortunately that 'click' was employed
by some game and sound programmers to play digitized sounds, and without the
'click' those digitized sounds in older 64 games came out either muted or non-existant.

> (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)

I hooked in a fresh (used) 64C into my BBS couple weeks back and after about
336 hours of continual use, it doesn't seem too noticibly warm.  It may be
because the slimmer 64C case is closer to the motherboard.


------------

The X-1541 post and response were by:
           
           g.j.p.a.a.baltissen@kader.hobby.nl (Ruud Baltissen)
and
           "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>

If you want more info than what I posted, talk to them, as I am more of a
general programmer than a hardware/OS person.

       Larry
-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
                        http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 21:10:36 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916205925.6019C-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> If Apple hadn't introduced the Lisa, the war might have been between
> Microsoft, Digital Research, Amiga, GEOS, or any number of other contenders.

There was never any O/S or GUI war.  After the PC and MS-DOS, Apple never
owned any serious hearts and minds except for a few niches like desktop
publishing and graphics design.  DR's GEM was never a serious contender,
and the Amiga never had more than a video effects niche.  Microsoft was
handed the PC monopoly and they held onto it. 

Microsoft intro'd three generations of GUIs before anybody cared, and
nobody has mentioned the real reason for the success of Windows 3.x: 
Solitaire.  Just as sex videos made VHS a standard, Solitaire is the one
thing that kept users from simply deleting Windows 3.0 after the standard
"OK, what are they up to now?" evaluation.  OK, virtual memory, multiple
MS-DOS boxes, and 3-D icons helped too, but I remember the real reason I
left Windows on my hard disk: Solitaire.

-- Doug



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Sep 16 21:17:32 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809170217.AA04239@world.std.com>


< M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
< 
< Mac vs. Windows - who won?  Microsoft.  Why?  Marketing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!  MS won because intel won and several downs 
manufacturers of clones won.  Mac was a single point product that
was also for much of it's life a closed product.  People do like the 
appearence of competition so intel boxen did get a little cheaper while
Macs did have like product pressure.

< PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.

Too little to late.

Allison



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 09:45:17 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>

Here is an interesting find for all you computer buffs..
I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week.
Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
Identical
except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural white..
I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this time 1984, is it
possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ?
This machine is really cool, boots up in DOS, has the smallest dual 5-1/4
floppy I have ever seen for its time period..
Here is a WebSite that shows the Osborne version of it..

http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/encore.htm

Phil...



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 21:40:14 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916213744.6019D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week. 
> Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
> Identical except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural
> white..  I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this
> time 1984, is it possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ? 

No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.

I think the Vixen (O4) was Osborne's last machine.

-- Doug



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 09:57:31 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980912170731.3625D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net> <35FFCEFD.1A62C2F7@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FFD1DB.D14A3B8D@sprintmail.com>

Reprinted form the Dead,Gone and Obsolite Computer WebSite:

The Osborne Encore is not the successor of the famous Osborne 1.
     Few times after launching the successor of the Osborne 1, the
     Osborne Executive, Osborne Corp. had serious financial problems
     and stopped all its activities. The founder of the company, Adam
     Osborne created then a research company and the result of his
     work is the Osborne Encore. It is a MSDOS computer. The Encore
     has a built-in modem (I don't know its speed). The keyboard has
     four 'icon' keys which call small program located in ROM : the
     "phone" key calls the communication software, the "clock" key
     calls a calendar, the "disk" key boots the system and the
     "calculator" key calls the little calculator. The screen can
     display only 16 lines, so only few MSDOS softwares can be used
     (the lower 9 lines are invisible). When it was conceived, the
     Encore had a 25 lines LCD screen, but when it was launched, it
     had a 16 lines screen (?).

My Machine:
The Zenith Z170 has a composite  jack that supports 24lines by 80 column, and
built in modem. Whats interesting about this computer is that it has build in
several things like a calendar, Memo pad, World map, and Calculator.. All this is
built in ROM, and runs before the machine is even booted..

> Here,s the site again if anyone wants to visit...
>
> http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/encore.htm
>
> Phil...





From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:02:10 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916213744.6019D-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>



Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
> > I found a Zenith Z170 Lunch Box PC at a local Thrift store last week.
> > Could'nt find anything out about it, until I saw an Osborne Encore, its
> > Identical except the Osborne is Gray, and the Zenith is a natural
> > white..  I know that Adam Osborne's company went belly-up around this
> > time 1984, is it possible that he sold the machine rights to Zenith ?
>
> No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
> Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.
>
> I think the Vixen (O4) was Osborne's last machine.
>
> -- Doug

Do  you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed must be
incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
Thanks for your info..

Phil...

Take a "Look-See" for yourself..

  http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_site/page_start.htm



From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 22:07:48 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Do you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed
> must be incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine.. 

The collective mind of the web is forgetful :-)  Unless a site provides
references, take the info with a grain of salt.

Here's part of a conversation between our own Don Maslin and somebody who
was actually there:
	http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=240328861

Zenith won a couple of huge gov't contracts with that machine (including
the IRS), which explains both why they're so easy to find and why there
were two models -- Z170 and Z171 (I don't remember which was the gov't
model).

-- Doug




From handyman at sprintmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:50:25 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916215946.6019G-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>
Message-ID: <35FFDE40.35F3DFA1@sprintmail.com>



Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:
>
> > Do you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed
> > must be incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
>
> The collective mind of the web is forgetful :-)  Unless a site provides
> references, take the info with a grain of salt.
>
> Here's part of a conversation between our own Don Maslin and somebody who
> was actually there:
>         http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=240328861
>
> Zenith won a couple of huge gov't contracts with that machine (including
> the IRS), which explains both why they're so easy to find and why there
> were two models -- Z170 and Z171 (I don't remember which was the gov't
> model).
>
> -- Doug

This is execellent information Doug, Thanks very much. I printed the
discussion  of the above web site for keeping with the unit. I try to get as
much information as possible whenever I find such a rare find (At least What
I thought was Rare) <Grin>

Do you know how many Adam Osborne produced, and was it before Zenith got into
the picture with it.. ?

An IRS computer Huh!!  And the Navy to, very interesting..

Phil...





From yowza at yowza.com  Wed Sep 16 22:46:28 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFDE40.35F3DFA1@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916224306.6019H-100000@behemoth.host4u.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Do you know how many Adam Osborne produced, and was it before Zenith got
> into the picture with it.. ? 

Dunno.  I think they all came out about the same time.  In my experience,
the Zenith is the most common, followed by the Morrow, and the Osborne is
the rarest.  If I ever got off my butt and developed the Comprehensive
Classic Computer Registry, then you could simply take the max of the
serial numbers in the registry to give you a rough idea of production
figures.  The FCC ID of the unit will tell you who made it and when.

-- Doug




From jhfine at idirect.com  Wed Sep 16 23:22:40 1998
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Available: PC Magazine
References: <l03130300b21fb098fb3c@[207.225.85.221]> <35FB469C.284F3BDB@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <36008E90.A663D76@idirect.com>

>Jerome Fine wrote:

> Hi  Collectors,
>
> I have to start cleaning things and the most obvious
> right now are about 6 feet of PC Magazine from
> about 1988 to 1994.
>
> I also will be putting a TRS 80 Model III with 2 floppy
> drives in the pot.
>
> Not finally - only the beginning, there is a lot of DEC
> QBus stuff I must sort through.
>
> If any of this is worth anything, is there anything that
> is worth trading?  Like some DEC Qbus boards
> or a PC tape drive for a W95 system - I need tape
> backup.
>
> Even boxes of floppies - 3 1/2" HD 1.44 MBytes
> or 5 1/4" DSDD 360 KBytes
> or 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MBytes
> or Zip Cartridges 100 MBytes
>
> The last thing I want to see is for the stuff to go in a
> dumpster.
>
> I am in Toronto.  Magazines are very heavy and local
> pickup would be best.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jerome Fine

Gooooooooing!!     Goooooooooing!!     G..........

Last chance.  My wife wants the stuff out.

Anyone interested???



From jpl15 at netcom.com  Thu Sep 17 00:00:09 1998
From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9809162130.A1612-0100000@netcom4>



  To the List-Group, greetings!

  Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 
the I/O pinouts? 

  This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a 
large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted.  

  It's in prime shape  [STOP THAT!!!] and I'm wishing to make it 
part of the DEC managerie.

  Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
something the same width....

  O Yes: I would entertain the notion of purchasing (cheaply) and
having shipped a VAXVMS 5.x Grey Wall...  I saw one advertised a
while ago but it's gone now. 


  Thanks y'all


John



From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:20:32 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: C128D
In-Reply-To: <m0zJQvw-000IyNC@p850ug1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916221826.14817A-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> > > Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is 
> > > against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US 
> > > outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into.
> > 
> > I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason it's against code is that they
> 
> IIRC the code says something like 'No 220V equipment under 1400W in 
> domestic use'. Very strange.
> 
> Fortunately, we don't have silly rules like that in the UK. 

Probably because you have about one tenth the percentage of lawyers that 
we have over here!  You are indeed fortunate.

						 - don
 


From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:45:18 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917012118.9265.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916224344.14817C-100000@crash.cts.com>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote:

**** snip ****

> I still disagree.
 
You certainly broadcast from an appropriate ISP!



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 00:58:19 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On 17 Sep 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> I won't deny that marketing influences consumer perceptions and decisions;
> that would be absurd.  However, I think you grossly overestimate the
> degree to which marketing is able to override other considerations that
> consumers may have.

I think you grossly over-estimate the intelligence of the average American
consumer.

> For instance, before 1990, Apple had much better marketing than Microsoft,
> yet Microsoft was outselling Apple by a considerable margin even then.

You mean in DOS sales?  Then you're assigning the PCs (and therefore,
IBM's) marketing success to Microsoft? 

Sure I'm waving around marketing as the be all and end all of why people
choose one thing over the other.  Because basically that's most of what's
to it.  Like I said, marketed properly, I could sell dogshit to people and
they wouldn't be able to get enough of it.

It has a lot to do with why 10,000 owner's of castrated dogs have bought
false testicles for them called "Neuticles".  I'm not making this up.  Do
you think people start clamoring for fake pet testicles and some company
came in to fill the niche?

Anyway, I cede your point.  There is more to it than just "marketing". 
But marketing is a huge factor.  Do you think people would be clamoring
for the iMac if Apple wasn't advertising it as well as they are? 
Otherwise it'd be just another damned Mac.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From donm at cts.com  Thu Sep 17 00:58:37 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Osborne Encore / Zenith Z170
In-Reply-To: <35FFD2F2.298E485B@sprintmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.980916225443.14817D-100000@crash.cts.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Clayton wrote:

> Doug Yowza wrote:
 
**** snip ****

> > No.  That lunchbox was made by Vadem and OEM'd by Morrow (the Pivot),
> > Zenith (Z170/Z171), Osborne (O3), and maybe others.

**** snip ****
 
> Do  you have any more information about Vadem, the website I enclosed must be
> incorrect then.Interesting to find out more of this machine..
> Thanks for your info..

Vadem was involved in a lot of things - most visibly as a software 
house.  They wrote the code for some of Ampro's EPROMs, and some some for 
the Xerox 820 as I recall.  I have no idea whether they are still around.

						 - don



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 01:06:11 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>
References: <199809170006.AA01252@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3600A6D3289.AD5AKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:06:10 -0400
allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:

> 
> Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.

Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DOS
and the atari platform?

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 17 01:09:26 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <199809170217.AA04239@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917020051.17890A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> < PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won?  Intel.  Why?  Marketing.
> 
> Too little to late.

Ummm...when did the PowerPC die? They just got copper interconnects!

The things are everywhere, just not on the desktops of many people. The
PowerPC family of CPUs is widely acknowledged as a sucessful product.
Beyond PeeCees and PeeCee type servers, Pentiums have little market
share. PowerPCs can be found in RS/6000s, AS/400s, cars, telecom
equipment, etc..

I do wish they were better at floating point - compared to Power2, or
even the original Power architecture, the things suck.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 01:14:29 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com> <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3600A8C5162.AD5BKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On 17 Sep 1998 00:26:03 -0000
Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote:

 
> Although there can be no "proof" either way, I at least cited a possible
> (and widely believed) non-marketing reason for the success of VHS over Beta.
> You neither refuted my example, nor did you provide support for your claim
> that marketing is the primary cause in your two examples.
> 
> I could just as easily claim that Mac vs. Windows and PowerPC vs. Pentium
> were decided by consumers solely on the basis of cost.  I could probably
> come up with half a dozen other expanations that have nothing to do with
> marketing.  I don't need to invoke any mystical, unsupported "marketing"
> claim.
> 

I agree with you. I think people are greatly oversimplifying things when
they generalize everything that happens in a marketplace that is
dominated by someone, as a win that was due to better marketing.

Marketing is a factor, but isn't the only one. 

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 01:18:42 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to    consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917020051.17890A-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916231755.7663E-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:

> Ummm...when did the PowerPC die? They just got copper interconnects!

They didn't.  My point was that it didn't take the world by storm like
they had expected.  Intel won the marketing game.

> The things are everywhere, just not on the desktops of many people. The
> PowerPC family of CPUs is widely acknowledged as a sucessful product.
> Beyond PeeCees and PeeCee type servers, Pentiums have little market
> share. PowerPCs can be found in RS/6000s, AS/400s, cars, telecom
> equipment, etc..

I certainly think the PowerPC has life in it yet.  The new G3 Macs are
incredible.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au  Thu Sep 17 16:47:27 1998
From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: CP/M Disks may be Northstar
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917214124.30337E-100000@blitzen.canberra.edu.au>


Hi,

I was showing those CP/M disks I found to a friend of mine (also a
computer collector), and some of them are marked as being for a Northstar,
if anyone is interested in these let me know, I'd like to see them go to a
good home.

Cheers
Karl


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia

Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au



From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep 17 06:38:04 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Commodore 64 stuff
References: <35FFA9FD.2457@bright.net> <36004792.9A6CA091@xio.com>
Message-ID: <3600F49C.54B6@bright.net>

Hi Jason,
I live in Pikeon, Ohio. I still have all of the items.

--Alan


Jason Simpson wrote:
> 
> Sold it yet? Where are you located? I'm interested, especially in the Snapshot cart.
> 
>         -jrs
>


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 17 07:25:36 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <199809171225.AA14569@world.std.com>


<   Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
< Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 
< the I/O pinouts? 

Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
LP-11 interfaces.

<   Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
< ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
< something the same width....

Yes.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Sep 17 07:25:43 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
    consider.)
Message-ID: <199809171225.AA15405@world.std.com>

 
< > Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have.
< 
< Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DO
< and the atari platform?

Yes.  It started on 8bit cpm as GSS kernal and GKS graphics extensions
also with the DR Graph product.

Allison



From oajones at bright.net  Thu Sep 17 07:26:37 1998
From: oajones at bright.net (oajones)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Tandy Model 3000 HL
Message-ID: <3600FFFC.1171@bright.net>

I'm still cleaning out my basement parts supply. I found a Tandy 3000 HL
motherboard and the owner's manual. The last time I tried this
motherboard it was acting flaky. But if anyone wants it for parts you
can have it. Just pay for shipping and its yours.

Have a nice day!

--Alan


From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Thu Sep 17 08:20:31 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9809162130.A1612-0100000@netcom4>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917091616.17206A-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
>   Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a 
> Printronix P 300 line printer?  Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least 

I assume Printronix is still around, and most their later printers were
backwards compatible.  As least on control codes, graphics, etc.

>   This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a 
> large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted.  

That's a DataProducts parrallel interface.  Common standard in the 70's,
pretty rare nowadays.  The whole I/O board in the P300 could be swapped
for RS232, Centronics, DataProducts, or IBM coax.

>   Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
> ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 

We still use them, they're pretty easy to find.

  -Wayne




From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com  Thu Sep 17 08:22:38 1998
From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <199809171225.AA14569@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917092119.17206B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
> Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
> LP-11 interfaces.


Oh yeah?!  I've got a UniBus card for that.  And maybe a whole V750
available with it.  Ethan!  Where are you??

  -Wayne Cox




From CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com  Thu Sep 17 08:36:19 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at timaxp.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@timaxp.trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
Message-ID: <980917093619.12f@trailing-edge.com>

>  Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry 
>ribbons for the Decwriters?  Not that I couldn't kludge one from 
>something the same width....

Have you tried 1-800-DIGITAL?  You *will* have to know the model number
of the printer you need the ribbon for.

Tim.


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 17 09:02:02 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916161042.29276F-100000@shell1.ncal.verio
 .com>
References: <19980916224006.8621.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980917090202.00d0f100@pc>

At 04:19 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  But I hope you see my point.  The
>majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a
>caption in a magazine compels them to. 

Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Buy my stuff.  Is it working yet?
This isn't an ordinary disembodied voice.  Only *you* hear it
in your head, so it should be extra-effective.

The usual technoid misanthropy aside, "buy what everyone else
is buying" isn't a bad strategy if it's something that's 
not central to your life.  Do you spend as much time researching,
optimizing and comparing your decisions for buying food as you
do with buying computers?

> The majority of the people buying
>into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
>product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.

Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ?  Someone's beat you to it.

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Sep 17 08:55:33 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <19980917000513.27738.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980917085533.00c49320@pc>

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version,
>not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program,
>usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows
>buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense.

Bad example, really.  AutoCAD has a slew of interfaces: menus, buttons, 
command-line, scripting, and several APIs for programming.  Autodesk
has been very stodgy about whether or not their products can use
parts of those interfaces that might obliquely compete with AutoCAD.
For example, I recall anecdotes regarding whether 3D Studio for DOS
was allowed to have certain numerical interfaces (the ruler?) lest
someone try to use it for CAD.

- John



From erd at infinet.com  Thu Sep 17 09:09:25 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: Printronix Info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.980917092119.17206B-100000@mis.usaeroteam.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Sep 17, 98 09:22:38 am
Message-ID: <199809171409.KAA04489@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
> > Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series.  Use DEC LAV-11, 
> > LP-11 interfaces.
> 
> Oh yeah?!  I've got a UniBus card for that.  And maybe a whole V750
> available with it.  Ethan!  Where are you??
> 
>   -Wayne Cox

Still in Columbus, waiting for an overhead door to my quonset hut.  If I
try and wheel an 11/750 into an open shed, I'm asking for trouble.

I haven't forgotten about picking it up, but due to outside forces, I'm
not yet ready.  This was supposed to be done weeks ago.  On the bright 
side, when it is done, I'll have a good place for the collection: a 32'x48'
quonset hut with two 12'x15' overhead doors, across the driveway from my
new (to me) house.  I'm working on aquiring some left-over 12-conductor 
fiber to connect the buildings.  :-)

-ethan


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Sep 17 11:32:39 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:40 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to  consider.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980917090202.00d0f100@pc>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917093120.16724B-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, John Foust wrote:

> > The majority of the people buying
> >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful
> >product.  I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right.
> 
> Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ?  Someone's beat you to it.

Thank you.  My point has been proven.  These guys have marketed horse shit
in such a way as to get people to pay $19.95 for it.

I think I may actually use their service.

Sam                                        Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.

                September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 09/12/98]



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep 17 11:24:53 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980916184154.56df0da6@ricochet.net>

>a nuisance.  I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when

And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard
time going back to DOS-only.)  Yes, it's possible to run multiple
programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a
CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the
ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Sep 17 11:24:56 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
  consider.)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980916185356.626f4e58@ricochet.net>

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's
>never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's

Never advertised, sure.  Never reviewed, possibly.  Don't think I ever saw
an ad for the Sony Mavica I've got, and I know I never read a review.
Bought it because a friend had one.

I don't recall seeing much advertising for the Voicemail system I have.
Saw a mention of it somewhere, got info, compared what it could do to
others, and bought it.  It's still the only consumer-priced system I've
seen that can do what I need it to.

The mechanics I take my (non-Land-Rover) cars to doesn't have an ad in the
phone book.  Doesn't need one; they get all the business they need by word
of mouth.  If you need a big ad, your customers aren't doing your selling
for you.  

Which of course does not mean that the majority of the idiots out there
don't buy things simply because some guy in a fancy suit says they should.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Thu Sep 17 11:43:13 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980916184154.56df0da6@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <13388663143.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Need GUI to cut and paste]

Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.
-------


From lwalker at mail.interlog.com  Wed Sep 16 07:47:48 1998
From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Commodore 64/64C?  & X1541 Repost
In-Reply-To: <36006ACC.A92146F1@goldrush.com>
Message-ID: <199809171650.MAA28784@smtp.interlog.com>

On 16 Sep 98 at 18:50, Larry Anderson wrote:

> > From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
> > Subject: Commodore 64/64C?
> > 
> > I was wondering, what is the difference between a regular Commodore 64 and a
> > 64C? I've got one of each, and everything seems identical other than that the
> > 64C looks like a 128.
> 
> Generally they are exatly the same except the 64C went through a couple of
> later board revisions that noticibly cut down the chip count and the board
> size (and not to mention the production cost too).
> 
> One 'bug' that resulted is that the 64C's SID chip was 'fixed' of a clicking
> sound when you change volume levels.  Unfortunately that 'click' was employed
> by some game and sound programmers to play digitized sounds, and without the
> 'click' those digitized sounds in older 64 games came out either muted or non-existant.
> 
> > (Well, one other difference is that the 64C overheats after about an hour or so...)
> 
> I hooked in a fresh (used) 64C into my BBS couple weeks back and after about
> 336 hours of continual use, it doesn't seem too noticibly warm.  It may be
> because the slimmer 64C case is closer to the motherboard.
> 
> 
 I have a C64 that I had always taken as being a 64C since it is the flatter 
design case. I also have a 128. This thread raised questions about this 
assumption when it was mentioned that the 64c not only looked like a 128
but was the same dimensions. I pulled out the 2 machnes. and the 128 was 
noticeably  deeper and longer than the 64 altho it was basically the same 
design.. I checked out the label underneath and nope no "C" following the
C64. Did Commodore put out a C design case on a regular 64 ?

> ------------
> 
> The X-1541 post and response were by:
>            
>            g.j.p.a.a.baltissen@kader.hobby.nl (Ruud Baltissen)
> and
>            "Frank Kontros" <frank@kontr.uzhgorod.ua>
> 
> If you want more info than what I posted, talk to them, as I am more of a
> general programmer than a hardware/OS person.
> 
>        Larry
 
  Thanks Larry  (like your name :^) )  I'll toss the question out on the cscbm 
newsgroup. It's strange that no one ever mentioned the possibility of smoking
your Doze box before since so many use the X1541 cable.

 ciao		larry
						
lwalker@interlog.com


From rhblake at bbtel.com  Thu Sep 17 11:49:20 1998
From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
References: <13388663143.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <36013D8F.78B0A905@bbtel.com>

Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> [Need GUI to cut and paste]
>
> Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.
> -------

 It wasn't that long ago we were all using our mice to cut and paste in
DOS applications I beleive...

--
 ___________________________________________________

 Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
 Email:   rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com
 Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
 ___________________________________________________




From william at ans.net  Thu Sep 17 12:15:30 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to
In-Reply-To: <36013D8F.78B0A905@bbtel.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980917130239.1223E-100000@titan.purch.ans.net>

> > [Need GUI to cut and paste]
> >
> > Nope, wrong again.  Linux + gpm.

But a GUI sure makes thing a great deal easier. I have to deal with things
that do not talk like a DOS, Windows, Unix, whatever box - typically Cisco
routers and a slew of different types of CSUs. If I had to use a single
screen of text to move configurations between machines, I would go nuts!
When I copy access lists, interface configurations, etc., I thank the
people that made GUIs popular. It does not matter if I am using a
Thinkpad, an old XTerm, or an Ultra - when the clock is ticking on a
maintenance window, I can use anything that makes life easier.

>  It wasn't that long ago we were all using our mice to cut and paste in
> DOS applications I beleive...

And that was not too bad - as long as you had one document to deal with.
What about developing a good sized application in C? Having separate
windows for different chunks of code is very nice.

Yes folks, technology marches on, and generally gets better...

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From kozmik at wave.home.com  Thu Sep 17 12:59:31 1998
From: kozmik at wave.home.com (Dominique Cormann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
References: <19980917002603.9009.qmail@brouhaha.com> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980916225217.7663A-100000@shell1.ncal.verio.com>
Message-ID: <36014E0325.449EKOZMIK@mail.glph1.on.wave.home.com>


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Sam Ismail <dastar@ncal.verio.com> wrote:

 
> Anyway, I cede your point.  There is more to it than just "marketing". 
> But marketing is a huge factor.  Do you think people would be clamoring
> for the iMac if Apple wasn't advertising it as well as they are? 
> Otherwise it'd be just another damned Mac.


You brought up the perfect example of how it *isn't* just marketing.

The imac did well because of:

* Good marketing of the product and...

* Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as
simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should
packaged similar to other attractive household appliances).

* People wanted a cheaper mac

* People wanted a non intel/MS based machine (some people feel very
politcally motivated to boycot MS).

* People wanted a fast but yet still cheap machine that was easier to
use then a wintel box. (Simpler OS and very simple hookups, it only has
USB and ethernet)

* Some people prefer a simple all-in-one design (not me, but some ppl).

* They have attractive educational discounts and bundles. (The
university I go too cannot stock enough of these things, to meet student
demand).

* This computer is far easier to network up in large groups. (Another
plus for schools).

* The mac platform is argueably a better platform for certain apps.

--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann                          Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
     Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
                    


From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com  Thu Sep 17 13:18:27 1998
From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:41 2005
Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion
Message-ID: <D2060E39363AD211837E00A0242979EF0FA