From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 01:04:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:21 2005 Subject: Unix V7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13336129001.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It's the PUPS image, and it's single-user because it only supports the console port. I need a kernel built for 2 DZ-11s. (Actually DZQ11s...) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 01:11:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: I ran into a wall again... Message-ID: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Closer... I installed the DH11 along with that ACT thing in the 44. Now HARDWR LIST says I have 2 DHes, and a DM. But hanging a terminal off the ACT thing yields absolutely-fscking-NOTHING. I don't have the origional DH11 distribution panel. But I have the wires that are supposed to attach to it... Can I modify a DZ11 distrib panel to use in it's place? Do I need to modify CSRs or something? Oh, and I already tried all possible combinations of cabling 'tween the ACT board and it's panel. On a sidenote: Anyone know how to break into an IBM System/34? ------- From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Mar 1 01:25:26 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: I ran into a wall again... In-Reply-To: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >On a sidenote: Anyone know how to break into an IBM System/34? I think there was a thread in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x(or whatever the newsgroup is) on that, or was that you over there? -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 01:46:12 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: wall again... In-Reply-To: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980228234612.011259b0@pop.batnet.com> At 23:11 2/28/98 -0800, Daniel wrote: >off the ACT thing yields absolutely-fscking-NOTHING. I haven't seen that euphemism in _years!_ Or am I just naive? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 00:21:31 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. And the technical manuals - condition excellent. Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 He also has a AT&T 3B1 in great shape, but doesn't know what its worth. Any comments on these two appreciated. Cheers A From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 00:50:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. > And the technical manuals - condition excellent. > Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 A quick "power search" of Deja News will tell you that this machine has sold recently in a range from $0 to $100 (my cursory look yielded 2 for free, 2 at $50, and one at $100). It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory that can also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). -- Doug From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 03:05:21 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Sorting arrays(could be considered off-topic) In-Reply-To: <19980228183618.17074.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: VB allows you to compare characters by any criteria that you specify. If you want to break it up and do an integer comparison, you need to use the mid statement to get the first character, turn it into its ascii numeric code, and do the sort that way. As for sorts, do an internet search on that if you need a fast sort. If you have a ton of data, use one of the recursive sorts to do it. Funny thing, I thought VB already had a built-in array sorting function (I know Perl does!). You might be able to search a module with such a function out on the net; I'd try Carl and Gary's Homepage first.... Hope this helps a little, Aaron On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > While I am making this program in Visual Basic 5, this problem is > way over 10 years old, and the program will be old computer-related. > How do I alphabetically sort an array? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 03:25:13 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Lisa for sale (forward) Message-ID: Reply directly to the author (zzyzx97@earthlink.net). Buyer beware. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: news.ncal.verio.com!vncnews!HSNX.wco.com!nntp.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.250.118.17!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: zzyzx97@earthlink.net (zzyzx) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: FS: APPLE LISA Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:11:36 GMT this one is missing the power supply so I don't know if it works. It also has some corrosion on one of the boards, but maybe it can be cleaned....it looks like it can. The plastic has yellowed from being in the sun, but there are no cracks. The keyboard is nice. The mouse is missing the roller ball and the cap that keeps it in place. Sold as-is, please send me your offers. ZZyzx "Me, indecisive? I'm not so sure about that." -- end of forwarded message -- -- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From cprohman at ix17.ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 1 04:17:10 1998 From: cprohman at ix17.ix.netcom.com (Carl Rohman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: NEC APC Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980301041710.031cb01c@popd.ix.netcom.com> A seach of the Web yields numerous hits on "NEC APC", many of which are from cable companies. You should have no difficulty in finding cables for the computer. I can tell you that the APC indeed belongs in your museum! If there ever was a machine which stood out as before its time, that is the NEC APC. The monitor was high resolution color (I hope you got the color version) at about 640x480 if I recall. It had a dedicated graphics chip which could do line drawing, curves, etc. It had about a 102 key keyboard. It had a 1MB floppy (8", of course). It had a sound chip and integrated speaker capable of reasonable music. Does yours have a hard drive? The early hard drives were 10MB externals, by the way, so you no doubt have some kind of external connector for that as well. Many of these advanced features later (or much later) were added to the PC. IBM eventually came out with EGA, which nearly matched the APC. With the AT they nearly matched the APC's keyboard (though they still neglected putting an "ENTER" key on the keypad), and surpassed the APC's floppy capacity. It took many years though before the PC added sound cards with better capability than the APC, or graphic accelerators with dedicated graphics chips. Too bad that your APC didn't come with documentation. The APC shipped with the best documentation I have ever seen, including internal schematics, a decription of all internal logical features, and a even a full listing of the BIOS on a disk. The documentation allowed me to write for example an interrupt driven print routine to replace the timing based BIOS print routine. Using my print driver the APC was capable of fully driving a 300LPM printer, or capable of driving a 100cps printer while simultaneously doing a program edit. Try that on an early PC! I hope you got some software. The original disk included a program "BACH", which demonstrated its musical prowess. Later machines shipped with a simple program I gave to NEC called "PLAY" which allowed the machine to play music coded into a text file which listed the notes to be played and the duration of each note. Usage was "PLAY filename". Banjo music worked particularly well. There was also an impressive program that demonstated its color graphics potential. Carl From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 04:23:51 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Able DH/DM card info Message-ID: <13336165281.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> OK, I've figured this is an Able DH/DM card, and it's not at all set right. Anyone have jumper/DIP switch info on thsi? ------- From okay at gte.net Sun Mar 1 06:35:01 1998 From: okay at gte.net (Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Radio Shack CoCo for sale Message-ID: <34F955F4.7CCA72B1@gte.net> Check out http://home1.gte.net/okay/for_sale.htm This equipment has been in my closet since I got my first PC in '87 I wan't to sell as a package. Gary From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Mar 1 06:56:58 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <002901bd4511$863dce80$b027a2ce@cliffgre> VALDOCS is an early example of a "works" type program for CP/M although its most noteable module was the spreadsheet. My wife liked it much better than Lotus 123. I have both a QX-10 and a QX-16. They are both quality boxes. The QX-16 is especially fun because one can boot it in either CP/M or MSDOS. I would encourage anyone to rescue examples of these fine machines. If I didn't already have one, I would be tripping all over myself to obtain a fully documented QX-10 for $65.00. In fact, if you decide to pass, let me know who to contact; I wouldn't mind having a spare. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:56 AM Subject: Re: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 >On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. >> And the technical manuals - condition excellent. >> Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 > >A quick "power search" of Deja News will tell you that this machine has >sold recently in a range from $0 to $100 (my cursory look yielded 2 for >free, 2 at $50, and one at $100). > >It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory that can >also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). > >-- Doug > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 07:17:54 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: IT WORKS! IT RUNS! AND MORE THAN ONE TERMINAL! Message-ID: <13336196965.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It finally accepted the DH and started using it! I know have RSTS/E v8.0 running and 16 terminal ports that work! The only bad part is, I have ABSOLUTELY *NO* idea what made it start working... I'd given up for the night and started cleaning up my mess, when I got a dumb idea and hung the console teleprinter off the 3rd port of the DH. Pushed enter, and got crap. Screwed with baudrates and other etc. and got logged in. Went upstairs and stole a VT100 off their router (They won't notice... I'll put it back...) and tested it out. All the ports are at funny baudrates and such, but they all work! Now, I have to think of a way to get this online... ------- From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 1 08:01:44 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! Message-ID: <001a01bd451a$92868e80$b087440c@kroma-i> >Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to >play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a >processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant on >the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of >code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy. > (Getting off topic a bit) I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation system, the "Super Nintendo." -- Kirk From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 08:03:05 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! Message-ID: <004a01bd451a$c5e30e20$19f438cb@nostromo> That's the dog I programmed. SNES. A -----Original Message----- From: kroma To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:02 AM Subject: Re: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! > > >>Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to >>play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a >>processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant >on >>the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of >>code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy. >> > > >(Getting off topic a bit) >I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation >system, the "Super Nintendo." > > -- Kirk > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 09:03:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 1, 98 05:21:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/798ecbe4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 09:08:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Unapproved obfuscations (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980228203916.01102a10@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 28, 98 08:39:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/cc268f18/attachment.ksh From pjoules at enterprise.net Sun Mar 1 09:38:37 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: PDP-11 rescue in UK References: <9802271708.AA04286@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <34F980FD.54C2974F@enterprise.net> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Unfortunately, the above description gives remarkably little information. > This could be a machine that weighs less than 20 kilos and is only > 5 years old, or it could be a system that weighs a thousand kilos > and is 25 years old... > I have just seen this thread today (Sunday) and sent him a message asking about its size, model, and peripherals. If it is not taken I might finally get a PDP-11 ;-) unless any of the other UK members beat me to it. If I am lucky enough to get it then I will post the details. Regards Pete From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:24:40 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803011724.RAA07490@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :Didn't they? There's at least one PC-jr in the UK in operational :condition, although without the original PSU, so I can't comment :whether there was ever an IBM 240V transformer unit for them. Mind :you, the technical manual only lists a 115V model. some of them must have leaked across the atlantic, even in some official capacity, but they were certainly never sold here. they were axed in the us before they could be introduced here. given how long britain had to wait for the ibm pc (and the resultant popularity of the sirius) it isn't really all that surprising... we also seem to remember personal computer world reviewing a model that they described as "the pcjr done right", which was called something like the jx and was only available in japan, and used 3.5" disks years before anything else did. are we remembering correctly...? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:25:00 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <199803011725.RAA07536@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [doug on qx10] :It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory :that can also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package written in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote it were less than competent. for some reason it has an awful reputation, as slow, buggy, etc. never used or seen it - even in magazine reviews (not for the want of trying either) - hence the vagueness. please, someone furnish further details...? did epson ever release the source? (hmm. other things written in forth were more successful - vp-planner springs to mind, since it was so successful lotus killed it...) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:25:06 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: cprohman@ix17.ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <199803011725.RAA07554@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> NEC APC that reminds me. we always fancied an nec apc... but what we wanted even more than that was a samurai s16. anyone else remember these? also 8" disks, 8088 running at around 4MHz, 128k basic ram, design that looked very apc-ish and quite lisa-ish also (there were a number of machines with that styling. immediately we can think of the lisa, nec apc, ncr decision mate/v, samurai s16. any more...?) the last we heard of the s16, some firm was flogging it off for 400 quid a throw or thereabouts, in response to the amstrad el cheapo pc. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:24:47 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it. :Still sure you don't want to LART me? There's a few about - I was "lart"? :given one a few months back. Strange machine - the disk controller :has a 8048-series microcontroller and a lot of TTL on it. It's an :8088 machine, but virtually all the I/O chips come from the 65xx :family, etc. not surprising, considering that chuck peddle designed the 6502 in the first place. he was especially keen on the 6522 and tended to scatter them around his designs like confetti... ;> the disk drives used gcr and ran at variable speeds, not unlike the mac's (although was the gcr encoding method a more traditional 4 bits onto 5, as opposed to apple's software-based 6-to-8?) and also boasted a capacity of 1.2Mb and a data rate of 500kHz. and an 800x400 screen that took memory from the main map, rather than its own little partition off somewhere else. it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have been if it *had* to use that particular architecture... :Yes, 'everybody's got an 11' - but it's the sort of machine you :should have anyway :-). IMHO it's a very clean architecture. hmm. maybe. *grudge grudge* yes, it is a very nice architecture, particularly in the way both the source and destination operands can be specified as being in memory for all instructions (rather than just loads) - but our objections to actually having one are not based in rationality in this case... :And surely it's better to have a real PDP8 than to have a simulator it depends what you want it for. we want it for the programming challenge (what can usefully be done within 4k?) and it makes sense for programming challenge phase 1 to be hacking out a simulator. getting the real pdp8 is something we'd see as the last step, not the first. :Well, a Daybreak (the smallest, commonest D-machine, I think) :turned up at a radio rally a couple of weeks ago. It was the first :one I'd seen outside a museum.... hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :> [tiger] :The design was sold to HH electronics, :who went broke (no idea whether the cost of making the Tiger had :anything to do with this), and the machine never went into :production. probably - ram was expensive, modems were expensive, 7220s were expensive... it would have been a hacker's dream, but for most hobbyists, possibly overkill. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 11:30:24 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Radio Shack CoCo for sale Message-ID: <19980301173024.8895.qmail@hotmail.com> How much? > >Check out http://home1.gte.net/okay/for_sale.htm >This equipment has been in my closet since I got my first PC in '87 >I wan't to sell as a package. >Gary > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Mar 1 12:48:12 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 pinouts Message-ID: <34F9AD6C.354E@digiweb.com> I acquired a Dragon 64 base unit today. Can anyone post the pinouts for the power and video connectors? -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 12:16:01 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Under CP/M you have a simple kind of multiple font support (although you > really need an expansion card that contains the Font ROMs etc to use > this). There was also an integrated software suite called 'Valdocs' > (VALuable DOCuments, I think) whic hwas rather slow but quite a hack for > the time. Interesting. Today at the ham fest I found two modules (that I passed on) that were encased in a black plastic enclosure. One was a DB-25 serial port adaptor that had a 40 pin header on the bottom edge. The other was a font adaptor card that had a 20 pin header. These sound suspiciously like what you describe. > Make sure you get the keyboard and monitor with it - those are non-standard. I've seen a couple of these keyboards at thrift stores and always wondered what VALDOCS was. I figured it was a word processing system. Now I know for sure. Haven't seen a complete system yet though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 12:42:50 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: IT WORKS! IT RUNS! AND MORE THAN ONE TERMINAL! In-Reply-To: <13336196965.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 1, 98 05:17:54 am Message-ID: <199803011842.KAA22949@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/07f804c4/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Mar 1 12:39:58 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: FREEBIES! A Pair of MicroVAX II'S need a home! Message-ID: <34fcab3b.992137588@mail.wizards.net> Seen on Usenet. If you can adopt these fine machines, contact the original author directly. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- From: "Erie Patsellis" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: free to good home- 2 MVII (western mass) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:37:25 -0500 Lines: 6 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.71.19.191 Message-ID: <34f9645f.0@204.71.19.13> Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.71.19.13!204.71.19.13!204.71.19.191 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:60992 due to change in living situation, I have 2 MVII's available, just email me to pick them up. erie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 12:50:00 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Apple Basic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't remember - is there an INT function in Apple basic? If so, it would be easy to do (I only used 4 variables for clarity): A = the number B = the number you're dividing by C = the result of division D = the modulus C = INT(A/B) D = A - C * B Viola! D is the result of A mod B! On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > > Eh, heh. > > So how do I get a modulus in Apple basic? The answer is not 'MOD' or '%'. > > ok > r. > From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 12:58:04 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/369a2334/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 13:08:31 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wish List! Message-ID: <199803011908.LAA23484@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/f98fa9ad/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 08:32:31 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Pretty good week In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199803011932.OAA29322@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Feb 98 at 20:49, John Rollins wrote: > >Here, take my 10 year old copy of Minix. BTW, is anybody up to speed on > >the current state of Minix? I have an itch to run *ix on a 128K 8086 box, > >and it doesn't look like ELKS is ready for prime time. > Well, I'm definitley not a Minix junkie, I haven't even had time to get > around to putting it on one of my 8088's, but I think the current version > is 2.0, which I think will run on an 8086/88 if you have enough disk space > and a way to get all that stuff onto the drive. You would probably want a > 286 to do anything with 2.0. For some strange reason, I downloaded Minix > 1.1 to install(probably because it will fit on a bunch of 360k disks, but > 1.1 doesn't do much, everyone told me to use 1.5). Try checking out the > comp.os.minix newsgroup. > BTW, is yowza@yowza.com a real address? Sounds funny to me... > Toronto Atari Federation used Minix as one of the elements in a package that enabled ST users to access the i-net. Requires about 4 megs tho. It's since been superceded by easier programs. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 08:32:30 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Pretty good week In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> References: <1d2866d7.34f63008@aol.com> Message-ID: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Feb 98 at 6:52, Joe wrote: > At 10:16 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote: > >In a message dated 98-02-26 22:08:24 EST, somebody wrote: > > > ><< Geez, where do you guys keep all these computers??? >> > > > >well, with living single, and a 3bedroom house for me and my dawg, it's easy! > >=D > > > >david > > Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the > computers. A lot quieter too. > > > Joe , that has to be the funniest quote on classiccmp this year. I was still chuckling 2 hours later. Thinking of using it in a sig file ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 13:40:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed Message-ID: <34F9B99F.141E1A58@bbtel.com> I just obtained a machine that has the same all-in-one look as a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 but the drives are located in an external box and has the name Vector 3 on the front and the label on back states that it's made by Vector Graphics, Inc. The external box has a 5.25" floppy and a 5.25" hard drive in it and it has a monitor and keyboard in the main unit. I haven't even powered it up yet so I don't even know if it works. Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. Any information of this machine is greatly appreciated. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY USA From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 1 13:35:39 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: <9803011935.AA18442@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/55440ba3/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 13:36:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <19980301193644.29310.qmail@hotmail.com> I debated if I shouldn't just send this directly to you, seth, but I decided that knowing where old computer providers and users are is good for the whole list. I am a high school student in Boston, MA (If anyone is familiar with the Boston Latin School, that's it). I had a C-64, but fried it two years ago. I now have a Mac Portable, Apple //c, 386 Clone, P*****m clone, which is what I usually use. I am interested in classic computers because they are cheap and easy to understand. They usually have less bugs, and, most importantly, they were made in an era when money wasn't all that counted as far as computers went (everything else was long past that point). I am also working on System/34 in my school's supply room. I will start monday. C'est tout. >Club, formed to prevent people from trashing all the PDP11's that were >How about other folks? What kind of backgrounds and current experiences >do you all have? I'd love to hear about it. > >-Seth Morabito > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 13:41:10 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> <1d2866d7.34f63008@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> >> Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the >> computers. A lot quieter too. Not if you have a running, large VAX. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From frank at 5points.com Sun Mar 1 14:20:21 1998 From: frank at 5points.com (Frank Peseckis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <34fbbae3.354654541@mail.capital.net> On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:58:04 -0800 (PST), Seth J. Morabito wrote: >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. > I probably fall into the older half of the list. I'm a physicist, 44, and have not principally used computers in my work, focusing more on 'paper and pencil' theory (initially high energy physics, then statistical dynamics of turbulent processes). My first practical exposure to computing was learning Basic in high school in the late sixties, then my batchelor's thesis at MIT in 1974-5 where I did some computational modeling of nucleon-nucleon interactions, and some fortran programming in graduate school at Columbia in 1976 for neutrino experiments at Fermilab. On an entirely separate track, I have recently been working collaboratively with some artists and scientists exploring connections between the visual arts and mathematical sciences. The work relies heavily on computational graphics manipulations (though nothing 'classic' about the hardware used). My interest in collecting is recent, only the last couple years, as I have seen lots of older things thrown out. I have a few interesting older things (altair, kim, nec pda-80 -- thanks Allison!, northstar horizon, misc s-100 boxen, etc), with possibly the most unusual being the guts from two CADR lisp machines from the AI lab at MIT. Lots of other stuff as well, all architectures. Shameless request: for some reason I can't seem to find any kind of commodore pet, so if some kind soul has a spare they'd be willing to part with, please let me know. FWIW, I'm married to a seismologist who finds my collecting this old stuff amusing, and have two children who also enjoy all the computing paraphernalia around the house. Makes for an easily encouraged collecting experience :-). Hope this was of interest, Frank Frank Peseckis frank@5points.com http://www.5points.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 14:59:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wish List! Message-ID: <199803012059.AA01526@world.std.com> from: sethm@loomcom.com 54 disks (30-159mb), rx50 floppy and plenty of serial io. Boards are common enough and generally free to cheap. if your real lucky you may find a copy of RT-11 on the disk or with the machine. Docs are always handy. Message-ID: Hi, I'm Doug, and I'm a computerholic. It started innocently enough with an HP65 programmable calculator in high school (1977 or so). I played Lunar Lander and wrote a few programs, but this wasn't enough to get me hooked. For graduation in 1979, I got an Apple ][. I wrote a few programs in clean crisp integer basic, and that was cool. But then I loaded some demo program off a tape (by Bill Atkinson, I think). It was fast! I experimented a little with assembly language. I was hooked. I went to school at UCSD and brought my Apple with me. Convinced that computers were cool toys, but unworthy of serious study, I studied biochemistry, but snuck in a few computer classes out of curiosity. The first was a FORTRAN course in which I wrote programs on punched cards and fed them to a Burroughs 7800. I feel no nostalgia for that machine. The PDP-11's and VAXen at UCSD were OK, but uninspiring compared to having your own personal machine with a bit-mapped display. I regarded those with S-100 machines as mad, and those with TRS-80's and Pets with a mix of distain and pitty. The Apple was the only thing happening until IBM unleashed the PC with sort of a dull thud. While running a small computer lab at UCSD, I had my first experience of computer envy when somebody brought in their GRiD Compass. I finally resolved that relationship this year when I got my own GRiD Compass, and then I realized that I had a few other nostalgic itches that needed to be scratched. Now that I'm an aging software weenie in Silicon Valley, I'm starting to forget, for example, what a silly thing was the E&S PS-300 with it's dataflow language, and I kinda sorta want one. BTW, here's my theory of why now is an interesting time to be a collector: the computer is now so mainstream that innovation is occuring only in very narrow areas. As far as architecure goes, general purpose scalar machines are the only ones to survive. RIP: writeable control stores, dataflow architectures, LISP engines, connection machines, object-oriented architecures, etc. If you don't get your hands on one of these recently extinct dinosaurs soon, forget it. As far as form factor goes, I can't think of any reason that everybody won't be using laptops in the next few years, so now's a good time to collect ancient form factors as well as a good time to collect early instances of the first of the new generation. (OK, I guess that was cathartic. Thanks for the invitation.) -- Doug From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 1 15:51:37 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fdd6ed.3165547@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:16:16 +0000 (GMT), you said: >I pulled a much more trivial example at a place I was working at over 10 >years ago. I had to write a program, and for various reasons I wanted to >use Turbo Pascal. But it wasn't on the list of 'approved' languages, so I >couldn't order the 'Turbo Pascal Compiler'. What I could order was >'Borland part number XXXXXXX data logger program compilation system' (I >was writing an data logging system).... I did the same sort of thing twice, but was up front about it, and paid the price; I needed the Borland TP Database and Editor tools, so requested their 'Jumbo Toolbox' (is that correct?) which came also with their Game toolbox. Lots of explaining about how we saved money by accepting the package deal vs. separate packages. In the same request, I asked for Brief (programmers editor, excellent) by Underware, Inc. (Everyone in the approval chain called me to ask; "Are you kidding?" _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 15:52:17 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:24:47 pm Message-ID: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great lisard@zetnet.co.uk once stated: > > [tony duell] > :> oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it. > > :Still sure you don't want to LART me? There's a few about - I was > > "lart"? Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and think Bill Gates is Good. -spc (Mostly used by sysadmins and see on alt.sysadmin.recovery) From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 16:10:34 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: <199803012210.RAA25095@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Seth J. Morabito once stated: > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. I'm a 29 programming living on Lower Sheol (aka South Florida) currerntly doing consulting work for one company (helping them with their Unix ports) and partner in another company where I'm the project lead on GeoFind (http://www.geofind.com/ - a meta search engine for the Internet). I'm not fond of Unix, but I'm less fond of Windows (so that's why I'm typing this up on my new Linux box). My collection just happened as opposed to me actively seeking it out. My first computer was a Color Computer 2 with 16K and Color BASIC. I upgraded it to 64K myself (I think I was 15 or 16 at the time, and it did require a small hardware modification to the motherboard) and was forced by RatShack to have them upgrade it to Extended Color BASIC. I eventually ended up with one disk drive and a Tandy Daisy wheel printer for the thing, and I still them (oh, and the Tech manual as well). My second computer was an IBM PCjr when IBM was selling off the last of them in 1987. I got mine from a friend's father who worked at IBM and it came with 384K RAM, parallel port, joysticks, new keyboard and cable and as an added bonus, the Technical Reference Manual. It was then that I made the decision to buy (if possible) the tech manuals for any computer I get (if possible). My third computer was my first used computer - another Color Computer. I don't recall why I bought it, just that I did. I think that was the start of my collection really. My next computer was an Amiga 500 (new) and that's the last new computer I've bought. The rest have been used. I was always known as being a bit odd, and after awhile, I just started accumulating computers. A Data General/1 here (from a previous employer who no longer needed one), a dead Xerox there (right now making sure the carpet stays down in the computer room), a uVAX 2000, two Tandy 6000s (and possibly a third), two HP/Apollos Series 400 (yes, they are 400, I just checked 8-) a few terminals, a C-64 and I hate to say this, but a stack of PCs and PC monitors (bleh - forced to take them to get the DEC vt320 terminal). On the wish list front, I'm not actively seeking out computers (as I have in fact, run out of space), but I would like to: Get the Xerox working, which I doubt I will any time soon. Get a new drive for the uVAX 2000, as I suspect there's a screw loose inside the drive that's rattling around. It'd be nice if I could get a copy of VMS (with TCP/IP) with a developent system (or Unix). Just how special are the drives and/or format for the DEC systems? I have extra harddrives, but I'm wondering if I can use them. Get the OS for the HPs. This I'm working on. Get the second Tandy 6000 back together and see if it still works. It worked when I picked it up, but I'm not so sure after I dropped it off (literally. Those suckers are heavy! If anyone can send me just a T6k case, just the case, I'd be happy) Make my own desks to fit the equipment here. I have the design, it's viable (I talked it over with an architect friend of mine) but I just need to get the time, money and materials. So, that's about it for me. -spc (Help! I'm drowning in silicon) From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 16:23:19 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 1, 98 03:25:01 pm Message-ID: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Doug Yowza once stated: > > Hi, I'm Doug, and I'm a computerholic. Hi Doug. I'm Sean, and I'm a computerholic as well 8-) > BTW, here's my theory of why now is an interesting time to be a collector: > the computer is now so mainstream that innovation is occuring only in very > narrow areas. As far as architecure goes, general purpose scalar machines > are the only ones to survive. RIP: writeable control stores, dataflow > architectures, LISP engines, connection machines, object-oriented > architecures, etc. If you don't get your hands on one of these recently > extinct dinosaurs soon, forget it. As far as form factor goes, I can't > think of any reason that everybody won't be using laptops in the next few > years, so now's a good time to collect ancient form factors as well as a > good time to collect early instances of the first of the new generation. Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new HP machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable control store. My friend has one of these boxes at home and he's been planning on playing around with this. OO-architectues: While interesting, they have the problem of being slower than their non-OO counterparts (in the same era). The Intel 432 sounds interesting, but from what I hear, it made for a slow system. But again, don't count this as being dead as Sun has made CPUs that run Java natively (or rather, the JVM, which enforces the OO paradigm). Give some of these things time. They typically don't hit mainstream until 20, 25 years after being first introduced. -spc (Java is just another variation on UCSD Pascal ... ) From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 1 16:31:57 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:40:18 +0000 (GMT), you said: >> > What is even more anoying is that you can't use a double-sided 8" floppy >> > in a single-sided drive. The index sensor is in the wrong place, you see. >> > And punching extra holes in a few boxes-worth of disks is not my idea of >> > a fun afternoon :-(. >> >> Set the box on the window sill, line up the laser, ... > >Alas not - you don't want to make extra index holes in the disk itself - >only in the jacket. For the same reason you can't make a pile of the >disks and drill/punch a hole through the lot Slightly more complex, but possible; you just line up the index holes and zap the jackets. (Implementation is up to the reader) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 1 16:47:43 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > What does PDP mean, exactly? Is it something like the PC standard? > > > > > > > > PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was the name that DEC used instead of > > > > the word 'Computer' for various reasons, most of them lost in the folklore. > > > > > > According to _Computer: A History of the Information Machine_ by Martin > > > Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray (BasicBooks, ISBN: 0-465-02989-2 [hard] > > > 0-465-02990-6 [paper]), Len Olsen is quoted as choosing the name > > ^^^ > > I don't know if that's an error in the original, or a typo, but I'm > > pretty sure it should be 'Ken'. > > Sorry. Blatant typo. It is in fact "Ken" ('k' is right next to 'l'). > > > > Programmed Data Processor because nobody would believe that "in 1960 > > > computers that could do the job could be built for less than $1 million." > > > > That's certainly one of the reasons that I've heard. Another is that > > there was either a tax on 'computers' or that if you were a > > government-funded place (state funded?) you could only buy 'computers' > > from a very few approved companies. So Digital/DEC didn't make > > 'computers' - they made Programmed Data Processors. Whether either of > > those reasons is true I don't know. > > I've heard this reason for other "computers" not being called that as > well...things like computers being called calculators because one couldn't > get a computer in the budget. True! The DOD had such a policy in the '70s. A lot of 'programmable calculators were bought in that era. - don > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 16:57:49 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: PC to System 34/36/38 setup FS Message-ID: <34F9E7EC.C3A90576@bbtel.com> I have a new, in the box, AST-5251/11 setup that allows a PC to communicate with an IBM 34/36/38 mainframe (?). It includes a thick manual, 5.25" and 8" floppies, twinaxial to adapter card cable w/tee, and the adapter card for an ISA slot. Still with the original overbox that shows all the features of this beauty. The box states that the card is an 8 bit, DMA selectable for PC/XT/AT, selectable interupt channel, on board high speed 8X305 processor, 5251-11/5291 or 5291-1 display terminal emulation, host addressable 5256 printer support on the PC's printer, concurrent host and PC sessions with hot key assist, bidirectional file transfers, and more. This is the enhanced version. I have no use for this and many of you are into connection to mainframes and minis, so make me an offer, whether it be cash or trade for PC compatible items. Email a reply direct to me, please. Russ Blakeman rhblake@bbtel.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 16:51:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <19980301225105.1732.qmail@hotmail.com> > Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, but can be >anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering upon loosers who don't >know a calculator from a computer and think Bill Gates is Good. I would say the optimal is a PC clone case with Windows 95 cds glued on. Anyway, what IS the difference between a computer and a calculator (yeowch!)? I know the one between a Cray and TI-10 (4-function calc.), but what about a 68k based TI-92 graphics, which a friend of mine is now making a multitasking OS for? It has a full keyboard (half the area). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:18:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 1, 98 10:16:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b32210d3/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 17:02:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) In-Reply-To: <199803012100.AA01601@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Misc machines: > INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 Is this a blue box? I had a chance to get one once.... > My wish list includes: > > more SBCs (mostly because they are fun and small) That reminds me. I have two piSBC 386/116's that I have no plans to do anything with (I don't have a card cage for them). They are available as trading fodder for just about anything smaller than a breadbox. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:27:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:24:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b943ace9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:21:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <199803011725.RAA07536@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:25:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/d41d9a58/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 17:14:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new HP > machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable control store. My > friend has one of these boxes at home and he's been planning on playing > around with this. I've heard that even Pentiums will let you patch their microcode, but the idea as a general theme seems to be dead. I don't know the reason for this except for speed and cost issues. > OO-architectues: While interesting, they have the problem of being slower > than their non-OO counterparts (in the same era). The Intel 432 sounds > interesting, but from what I hear, it made for a slow system. But again, > don't count this as being dead as Sun has made CPUs that run Java natively > (or rather, the JVM, which enforces the OO paradigm). True, some people are condemned to repeat history, but I'm willing to bet that hardware byte-code engines will be pulled back into the tar pit before they leave the cave at Sun (and other places). I listed to a talk given by a Sun engineer on why they should build these things, and the reasons he gave (such as byte-code is more compact than other code) are really hard to buy. Defintely a solution looking for a problem. > Give some of these things time. They typically don't hit mainstream until > 20, 25 years after being first introduced. > > -spc (Java is just another variation on UCSD Pascal ... ) True again. p-Code made more sense then (when there was more than one dominant architecture) than Java does now, but if Sun ever buys into the idea of Java compiled to native code, there still may be more hope for Java than there was for UCSD Pascal. -- Doug From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 1 17:20:18 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Barry Peterson wrote: > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:40:18 +0000 (GMT), you said: > > >> > What is even more anoying is that you can't use a double-sided 8" floppy > >> > in a single-sided drive. The index sensor is in the wrong place, you see. > >> > And punching extra holes in a few boxes-worth of disks is not my idea of > >> > a fun afternoon :-(. > >> > >> Set the box on the window sill, line up the laser, ... > > > >Alas not - you don't want to make extra index holes in the disk itself - > >only in the jacket. For the same reason you can't make a pile of the > >disks and drill/punch a hole through the lot > > Slightly more complex, but possible; you just line up the index holes > and zap the jackets. (Implementation is up to the reader) Still not good as the hole in the jacket needs to be rather larger than the hole in the disk itself. - don > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 17:29:04 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Recover gold from old computers Message-ID: <007e01bd4569$e377be00$19f438cb@nostromo> I wish this guy didn't exist http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm A From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 17:59:58 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Recover gold from old computers In-Reply-To: <007e01bd4569$e377be00$19f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 2, 98 10:29:04 am Message-ID: <199803020000.TAA25262@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Andrew Davie once stated: > > I wish this guy didn't exist > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm He comes across as being very much the gold digger (pun intended). For instance, he says he'll pay $20/pound for certain chips, and there's a thumb nail image of the chips he's intersted in. Click on the image, you get this large image, most of which blocked out, with a link to a page where you can order the image for, get this, $20! Everything on the site is like that. He'll buy from you, but you have to buy the catalogs of what he wants to buy. Sheesh. -spc (I wouldn't sell pure gold to this man ... ) From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 18:10:36 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Lart?] I have one. It's a hard cardboard tube out of the center of a UTP reel box. Aout 2" thick. I wrote "RTFM" on the top. ------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 18:26:50 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Where's a list of lists? Message-ID: <34F9FCC9.23FD7363@bbtel.com> Ok, it sounded stupid...I'm basically asking where there's a list of these type message areas, such as the one we're reading right now. I know about the Heath area and the Classic Computer area by word of mouth, but is there a place to get an overall listing of all that a person could subcribe to? Newsgroups are easy as they show with the newsgroup reader in your browser. Appreciate the time in responding to this or any of my messages. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wpe at interserv.com Sun Mar 1 18:33:31 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? Message-ID: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this thing was in, was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the top left is a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears to be a RCA type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears to be two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a label on it, that reads as follows: 239X .STD V0.86 92-2-27 23A7 Inscribed directly on the chip is: -150DC 1506NOT (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD Can anybody clue me in on this thing? AdvTHANKSance, Will From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 18:55:39 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: not the Sys/34 again!!! Message-ID: <19980302005539.16185.qmail@hotmail.com> I will finally get to the thing Monday to see if I can modify the PSU for 110 volts. It's probably a bit late to ask, but does anyone have recommendations for what to look for, as well as what tools I should take? Is the PSU takeapartable with a screwdriver? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From archive at navix.net Sun Mar 1 21:23:26 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803012210.RAA25095@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <34FA262D.73F1F449@navix.net> Hi, my name is Cord Coslor. Many of you may 'know' from the list and elsewhere, but many probably do not. I also know many of you probably do not enjoy posts like this (Sam... :-) Sam really is a great guy!!), but I think once in a blue moon it can be kind of funa dn interesting reading about people that we only know by their e-mail addresses. Anyway, I am 22 years old and am a full-time college student majoring in Sports Management and Broadcast Communications at Peru St. College in Nebraska. Deanna and I just had a baby girl (Morgan), and I also have two step children. I am in my fourth year of collegiate baseball (was at Sterling College in Kansas for 2.5 years) here.... so, between my family, classic computing, school, and sports, I think I really have a load for a 22 year old. Anyway, I got into collecting computers a long time ago. My dad had a TRS-80 Model 4 that he ran his crop dusting business from. In looking for games to play on it, I discovered I'd missed the TRS-80 boat by several years. So, I actually started investigating the old sources of software for the machines and was able to personally contact some of the game pioneers such as Scott Adams, and over several years developed a passion to collect everything related to this series of computers. I was 12 years old at the time. Next, the family got a Commodore 64 computer. Since this time, I guess I have been on a quest to collect every piece of hardware and software related to these machines and it has just kind of taken off from there. I enjoy collecting old 8-bit personal computers from the 1980s. However, I enjoy reading and learning from your post concerning some of the mainframes, etc. Currently in my collection, I have about 80 machines total. These consist of, all in duplicate or triplicate at least (in most cases), TRS-80 Model 1,3,4,4p,4d, Tandy Color Computer 1,2,3, MC-10,Dragon 64, Tandy 2000, Tandy 1000, Commodore 64, C-64c, Vic-20, Commodore Plus/4, Apple //e, Apple //c, TI 99/4a, tons of old printers of every type, Atari 130xe, Atari 400, Atari 800, Atari 800xl, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, V-Tech's Laser 310, Toshiba MSX (European), Bally Astrocade, APF TV Fun, ColecoVision, Odyssey 2, and the list goes on and on. Currently, my only modern machine is a Packard Bell Pentium 75. It currently has 24 megs of ram, and an 850 meg harddrive. Sound card, CD, complete multi-media computer. I use this machine mainly to promote my classics. I use of TRS-80 to check my e-mail at my 2nd e-mail address on the school's Unix machine, though. Well, that's about it.... I imagine I've outlived my welcome here! :-) Long live the 'classics,' CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:19:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 1, 98 04:52:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/01f79c66/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:47:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 1, 98 03:25:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/6dcc0a80/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:24:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> from "Barry Peterson" at Mar 1, 98 10:31:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/1168d795/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 16:58:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/f0f2767c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:29:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 1, 98 05:23:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/12104e34/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 19:15:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 1, 98 04:10:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/2248e0fa/attachment.ksh From archive at navix.net Sun Mar 1 21:27:59 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <34FA273E.6DA44DC4@navix.net> Oh, yeh... I forgot to mention I, too, and looking for a couple of things. 1) V-tech's old Kids computer called the Laser 50. Seriously looking for one... will pay pretty well. 2) looking for a power supply for My Data General One laptop. In addition to all my other hobbies, etc., which can be found in post I sent just a minute ago, I collect autographs and have nearly 7,000 signed items in my collection. Those and my computers have been piling up for about 10 years now. :-) CORD -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 20:09:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) Message-ID: <199803020209.AA10451@world.std.com> <> Misc machines: <> INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 < In a message dated 98-03-01 17:25:56 EST, you write: << It was thus said that the Great Seth J. Morabito once stated: > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. >> My name's david, and i'm based in north carolina. I do level 2 technical support for IBM's consumer line. I only started really collecting computers about 3 years ago and am up to ~75 or so. It all started way back in 1984 in high skool when i discovered the apple //e. I flunked computer science, but it eventually worked out pretty well. I never did get my own computer until 1987 when i bought a second hand apple ][+ with no disk drive for $200. ( i still have it) I've got quite a varied collection which includes apple // series, 68k compact macs, IBM, a microvax, xycom business cpm machine, osi, atari, TI, heathkit,kaypro, tandy, and some others i cannot think of right now including spare parts for the apples and xt era pc machines. most machines will be on a website soon once i can get my mind back into it. my primary interest is early pc era stuff from big blue, naturally, such as ps2 models, pcrt, and pcjr types. i also have an extensive collection of nibble and compute! magazines from the 80s as well. It would be nice to find some old working minicomputer, but for right now, it's just 80s micros, since that's what I grew up with. david From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 20:44:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) In-Reply-To: <199803020209.AA10451@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > <> INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 > < > > Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was > used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team. Hmm, the one I'm thinking of may be a later vintage. But if BIG means a cube about 3' on a side, then it may be the same. > > What are they? Most of the SBCs I'm interested in are of the mid '70s > through mid 80s designs. You've caught me with my hardware pants down. To my software eyes, they look like VME cards, but I know Intel doesn't do much VME stuff. They're 386-16 boards from circa 1987 (just slipped under the 10-year barrier). -- Doug From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 21:10:18 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Good finds this day Message-ID: I made some nice acquisitions to add to the old silicon heap today. I found an ATR-8000 ($7). The ATR-8000 was an adjunct CP/M box for the Atari 400/800/XL computers. To use it, you plugged a special cart into the Atari which was really just a terminal program. The Atari then acted as a terminal to the ATR-8000 (the connection from the ATR-8000 to the Atari was via serial cable). The ATR-8000 had external connectors for floppy drives (since you couldn't actually use the Atari drives on the ATR) and a printer connector. The ATR-8000 could actually be used as a stand-alone CP/M computer if you wanted to. You could just connect a terminal and some disk drives to it and voila, instant CP/M machine. Which is interesting to note because... The next find was ANOTHER ATR-8000 (!) but this time with a TeleVideo 925 terminal and two half-height dual floppy drives attached to it. Basically, an ATR-8000 in a stand-alone configuration! Cool. But this was even a better deal...$5 for the whole lot. My next nice find was an Intellec MDS chassis. The ship date on the back shows 10/77 so I imagine it is a later model than what I've seen in pictures. The front panel has 8 interrupt switches, and a momentary BOOT switch and a RESET switch. There's also a HALT and RUN light. There were two cards inside...one is a Monitor Module and the other is a wire-wrap mess that I can't figure out. I also got a bare wire-wrap card. The chassis was slightly beat up, as some parts of the face ridges were broken off, so I talked the guy down to $10. I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA" so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15. I found a real nice book: _Microcomputer Dictionary: (Second Edition)_ by Charles J. Sippl (Howard Samms, 1981, ISBN: 0-672-21696-5). It has some more excellent pictures of stuff I've never even heard of or seen before. I'll be scanning these pictures in and posting them to the web page. Of course it also has all sorts of definitions for computer terms and such. $1. Next find was a this kinky little Japanse 286 box, a Sharp MZ-6500 Model 50. All the markings were in Japanese (or is that more properly Kanji?). It had a "100V" plug as well as a strange plug that I assume is for outlets in Japan. It has two 3.5" floppies, an ST-125 HD, and a strange motherboard layout. It was in superb shape. Not really a classic, but cool looking. The guy wanted to get rid of it so I got it for $3. Other finds: a DEC VT-100 terminal for $.50 (yes, cents), and a TI-99/4a for laughs. It was a good day. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 21:25:22 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hey all, > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. The quickie: I'm 24, a computer science student in Southern California, father of 2 boys, and work as a systems admin/programmer for a local company that copies medical records for insurance companies. Most of my current job is pushing unix servers around and making them push NT boxes around, but I get to do some programming (mostly C and Powerbuilder) as well. I have been going to school for almost 7 years now and have degrees in English and Music composition, with somewhere between 2 1/2 - 3 years left to get my B.S. My first computer was a Vic-20, donated to the cause by my aunt (I was 8 y.o. or so, she won it in a raffle), that I abused until the letters were worn off the keys. During these years I wanted an Apple IIe like I used at school in the worst way, but my parents had a hard enough time buying clothes and food. My best-friend's dad had an Osbourne 1 that I drooled over (who wouldn't? It had *floppy drives*!) until I moved to California when I was 12. At this time I got an 800XL and really learned how to program with it. I was able to work enough little side jobs to end up with two 1050 floppy drives, a 256k memory upgrade, an 850 interface, and a 2400 baud Codex modem. Welcome to The Black Sabbath BBS, with your sysop Squid Vicious.... My collection of computers is really varied in content and purpose. I have a lot of Atari 8-bit stuff because I find it really *relaxing* to program those reliable little machines after a day of Solaris and Windoze headaches. There's also the nostalgia thing. I have an Osbourne and an Apple IIe because I wanted them so much as a kid. And then there are all the machines that I picked up just because they are so neat with all kinds of *lights* and yummy mechanical clicks. So far: Apple IIe systems with stuff Atari 400,800,600XL,800XL,1200XL,810's,850,1050's,1030,410,1010,1027,Rana 1000, Indus GT, a couple of monitors, etc. Mac 128,512,Plus,Se,Classic,Se/30,LCII,ImageWriter,ImageWriter (wide),Stylewriter Commodore Vic20,C64,128 (with all kinds of peripherals) IBM XT's,AT's Kaypro 2's and 4's, TRS-80's, Osbourne 1, etc. Colecovision and Adam Sun 3/50,3/60,3/80,4/330,Sparc 1, Sparc 1+, monitors, etc. VaxStation 3100, MicroVax II (listed but I haven't picked it up yet) Ah well, enough wasted space. From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 21:27:30 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980301192730.01162d40@pop.batnet.com> I'm 51, married, w/kid. I was born in Boston, graduated from college in 1970, wrote and published a novel a couple of years later. I started paid freelance writing in 1968 but, for various reasons, could never really land a job -- and, in any case, didn't want to spend the rest of my life in New England with rampant provincialism and rotten weather. In 1978 my wife and I moved to San Francisco; within a year I was an account exec at a downtown public relations agency. Problem with that job was that whenever I worked from home, which was mostly, it was a nuisance to get copy to the agency and back. After we moved to the East Bay in 1981 this got worse. In 1983 I bought my first computer and modem, convinced the agency to do likewise, and bingo! I became a real telecommuter. The unforeseen side effect was that people started asking me for advice on their computer problems -- not as often as they do now :-) but the problems were more arcane then ;-). After a while I was a Computer Guy, not perhaps by the standards of some people on this list, but easily in the eyes of the general public. In 1986 I became the technical support person for a small vertical-market software developer in San Francisco that was just getting off the ground; I had two jobs for a year, quit the PR shop, and worked in (mostly telephone) tech support till I got fired in 1996. Meanwhile, in 1990, I started to get interested in computer history for the same reason Tony did -- I was afraid it was all going to disappear. I knew hazily that the fiftieth anniversary of "the first computer," by which I meant COLOSSUS because I didn't know about Zuse, was imminent, and I wanted to write a popular survey history of computing in time for that. I haven't written it yet, but it's still on my list! In 1993 I founded the Computer History Association of California, and three months later began publishing the ANALYTICAL ENGINE, which is currently stalled just short of issue 4.2 while we figure out how best to deal with our hardware collection, which is too big, just like everybody else's. (There's some other stuff I want to say about the CHAC, and a biography isn't the place for it, but I'll put up a separate post in a few days.) I devoted more and more time to the CHAC until, in 1996, I lost my job basically for inattention; I stayed fired until the summer of '97, when I had to start writing for bucks again because we were broke. So, after having been all over the Bay Area in the last almost-twenty years, we live at the northern end of Silicon Valley in a cute little condo, which suits us fine because "real" houses are a nuisance to maintain and clean. I'm the computer history lecturer for Silicon Valley Elderhostel, and in September I'm starting to teach comp. hist. at Univ. of California Extension. Fred Davis and I have a publishing contract for _The Windows 98 Bible_, which should be out late this spring, and after that I'd really like to write _The Windows NT 5 Bible_ if we can get our publisher interested. (I've been running NT as my primary OS for the last three years.) "Even at my advanced age," he said looking around at the rest of us, "I think I've got the stamina for a career as a computer journalist." __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 21:29:47 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012100.AA01601@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are > us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford > when I was playing with them new. Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer enthusiasts :) > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is that it runs CP/M. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 21:33:12 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001401bd458b$f54d5aa0$60f438cb@nostromo> >> Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are >> us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford >> when I was playing with them new. > >Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into >this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer >enthusiasts :) What's a woman? Can you program it? Does it have a nice chassis? Is there somewhere to rest your beer while you're working on it? :) A From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 22:10:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803020410.AA03226@world.std.com> <> 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) < <> Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was <> used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team. < Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into > >this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer > >enthusiasts :) > > > What's a woman? > Can you program it? Does it have a nice chassis? Mine does :) Unfortunately, I seem to be the one being programmed though :( > Is there somewhere to rest your beer while you're working on it? Only in certain positions. (Ok, I know this is totally sexist but I'm sure my wife would be amused) (Yes, off-topic...couldn't resist) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 22:22:43 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: One more thing... Message-ID: I forgot to mention one last thing I picked up today. The CE-125 Printer and Microcassette Interface for a Sharp Pocket Computer PC-1250. This basically adds a 20 column printer and micro-cassette to the Sharp Pocket Computer. Basically makes the equivalent of a small Epson HX-20 (almost). The Sharp would slide into this unit and you could then carry the whole contraption around in a carrying case which came with the interface. Very cool. Now all I need to find is a Sharp PC-1250. In the box with all accessories and manuals, $15. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 22:37:51 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value you may be extracting from their circuits. I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not compelling. Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer Festival web page: http://www.siconic.com/vcf Sincerely, Sam Ismail Vintage Technology Cooperative http://www.siconic.com/vcf From cad at gamewood.net Sun Mar 1 22:45:36 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? References: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> Message-ID: <34FA3970.4B85@gamewood.net> will emerson wrote: > > Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this > thing was in, > was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the > top left is > a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears > to be a RCA > type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears > to be > two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a > label on it, that > reads as follows: > > 239X .STD > V0.86 > 92-2-27 23A7 > Inscribed directly on the chip is: > > -150DC > 1506NOT > (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD > > Can anybody clue me in on this thing? > > AdvTHANKSance, > > Will Hi Will: Just a guess, but it may be a 'pre' PC printer card. Untill IBM decided to save a few cents, and foisted off their kluge of a 'parallel port' using a DB25 connector, it was almost 'set in stone' that a DB25 connection was RS232 serial. The printer ports all used the centronix connector. (And YES, I'm still peeved at IBM for doing that.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 00:02:07 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? In-Reply-To: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> from "will emerson" at Mar 1, 98 07:33:31 pm Message-ID: <9803020602.AA22027@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 988 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b0b90498/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 00:44:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: Message-ID: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info > > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it > > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. > > Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin > (marvin@raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the resident > Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little > while. > > Add this one to your collection. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Hey me too on this one --------------------------------------------------------------^^^^ Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and it works as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive is a Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to have a printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. Although a little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and replacement of the antiglare mesh. If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him by the trackball and see what he has to say about it. Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining room, it's a computer docking bay. Thanks a bunch for the info... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 01:18:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <001401bd458b$f54d5aa0$60f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <34FA5D4F.F038D1D3@bbtel.com> I'm a 41 yr old that was born and raised in Chicago, IL with a great wife and 3 late teens sons and a first grade daughter (and a mother in law for a while). I've been getting zapped by electronic stuff since I was around 10-11 yrs old before the onset of transistors and semiconductors. I graduated J.F. Kennedy HS in 1975 and went into the USAF in 1976. I worked tactical air-to-air and air-to-ground missile systems and the associated equipment at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas until 1980 when I went to Keflavik Iceland until 1982. I then went into strategic (nukes) air-to-ground missiles working on the Short Range Attack Missile, Air Launched Cruise Missile and Advanced Cruise Missile and test equipment as well as equipment from the systems in the FB-111A, B-52 and B-1 aircraft at Plattsburgh New York until I became an instructor at Chanute AFB in Rantoul, IL. I taught basic electronics, missile systems maintenance and computer operations until they closed the base in 1993 when I went back to being a missile grunt at McConnell AFB in Wichita. I stayed there until I retired from the USAF in 1995 when I got a life again. I started my own business repairing a number of electrical and electronic equipment but mostly older cast-off computers. My first computer was a Commodore 64 and have had Sanyo MBC-55x machines, Apples of various varieties including Macs, varied clones and IBM original machines, TRS-80's and CoCo's, and the list goes on. I've run numerous BBS systems and networks. I've worked micros, terminals, minis and mainframes. I have a degree in Electronic Systems Technology and Technical Instruction and many home based courses from NRI. I've programmed in BASIC (many varieties), Pascal, C, C++, Cobol, and others I forgot about a long time ago. I love digging into older stuff from 1930's radios to 1998 Pentiums. My collection is nill - I don't have space for anything I can hold onto but I do get hold of older machines to tinker with and then find new homes for, such as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix oscilloscopes that I am holding onto as they are also workhorses for what I do here. You might say that I do the same thing that an adoption agency does -seeks out orphans, clean them up and find a home for them rather than raise them by myself. I moved to Kentucky after the military to an area where people know each other by first name and they leave their keys (and purses) wide open in their cars and no one messes with them. People don' generally ask for written estimates, just honesty. I look out of the window of my workshop in the morning and see wild turkeys rather than turkeys acting wild. My water comes from a tap but the tap is connected to a hole in the ground where water has been running out by itself for a dang long time, a natural spring. I ramble a lot too.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Mon Mar 2 01:23:35 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Hello In-Reply-To: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm FYI, this was a letter I sent to the "gold recovery expert". I CC'd the classiccmp listserver because I thought it might be of interest to others. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 01:31:30 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a few made (10s of thousands.) Russ Blakeman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have > info > > > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it > > > > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. > > > > Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin > > (marvin@raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the > resident > > Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little > > while. > > > > Add this one to your collection. > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, > Jackass > > Hey me too on this one > --------------------------------------------------------------^^^^ > > Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and > it works > as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive > is a > Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to > have a > printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. > Although a > little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and > replacement of the antiglare mesh. > > If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him > by the > trackball and see what he has to say about it. > > Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining > room, > it's a computer docking bay. > > Thanks a bunch for the info... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From archive at navix.net Mon Mar 2 03:45:52 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Enrico: model I Message-ID: <34FA7FCF.98562060@navix.net> -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn Subject: Re: model I Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:44:25 -0800 Size: 1804 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/e59670f6/attachment.mht From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 01:45:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it > in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither > is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor > with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA" > so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try > during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything > that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15. Momenta is *long* gone. I don't think they survived very long after the introduction of that 386 wedge you bought. The entire pen-based computing industry went up in flames except for a few niche players and some PDA makers that never learned (OK, the Pilot is a notable exception). The niche players and PDA makers survived because sometimes you need to use a computer and there's no place to set one down and use a keyboard. I think Momenta produced the only pen-based machine that pretty much required that you set the thing on a table. -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 01:47:41 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <34FA641D.2C137D6F@rain.org> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. Great idea, and thanks for starting the ball rolling! I started working with computers in college on the IBM 360 back in 1967 and found it to be a lot of fun. When I worked for Nabisco, I was sent up to DEC for classes on the PDP 16 (love to find one for nostalgia purposes), the PDP 11-05, the PDP 11-45, and some peripherals. After that, I did field engineering for Gyrex Corporation (a manufacture of equipment used in the Printed Circuit industry,) started my own printed circuit shop, and did/do computer consulting. Currently, I work for a friend of mine doing a variety of things involving mostly troubleshooting of electronic equipment. My hobbies include Amateur Radio, computers, and playing the piano (classical.) I started collecting computers more by not getting rid of them than by design. The collection currently runs about 300 computers (I lost count at 200+ a couple of years ago) mostly between the dates of 1975 and 1984. In addition, there are several dozen printers, a bunch of terminals, several thousand pounds of documentation, and a variety of parts, software, and other associated "stuff". The computer portion includes (in no particular order) Altairs, Northstar Horizons, Northstar Advantages, Radio Shack Models I, II, III, 4, 4P, 1000, 3000, 6000, Coco 1, Coco 2, Model 100s, Model 600, Commodore Pets, CBMs, Vic 20's, Plus/4, 64s, 128B, 128Cs, IMSAI, Vector Graphic I, 3, MX, IV, Sun 120(?), Dec PDP 8m, PDP 11-05, PDP 11-23, Rainbows, NEC 8201A, Intel MDS System, Intel ICIS System, unbuilt National SC/MP demo boards, Cromemco, Processor Technology SOL-20, Heathkit H8, H89, Zeniths, MOS Kim1, Corona PC400, Corona Desktops, Lobo Drives MAX-80s, Polymorphics, Atari 400s, 800s, 600XLs, Sinclair/Timex 1000s, IBM PCs, XTs, AT, PC Jrs, 5100, HP 75D, HP 150s, HP 86, HP 87, CompuPros, Apple II Plus, IIe, IIc, III, various MACs, Xerox 820-II, Altos, Osbournes, Kaypros, Compaqs, Epsons, Laser 50, 1000, Toshibas, Televideo's, AT&T 3B1, PC7300, NCRs, Wangs, NCCs, Morrows, Eagles, Sharps, Leading Edges, and a variety of others that don't come to mind off hand. A friend of mine has a Culler Scientific PC that he has said I can have that sounds like a neat machine (Culler Scientific was here in Santa Barbara, and I believe they manufactured some type of super computer.) Most of the computers were working when they were acquired but most are untested (by me!) My interest in collecting computers is for the historical value. I saw a lot of computers, and more importantly, the documentation heading to the dumpsters. I chose to see how much I could save from that fate :). My actual use of them is very minimal and pretty much limited to turning them on out of curiosity. One of the projects on the back burner but still simmering is to start a computer museum here in Santa Barbara. Of the 50 - 100 people I have talked to about it, most support the idea and are even willing to help! The most recent addition (yesterday) was a Coco computer that included the service manual. At $1 each, I will generally pick up any S-100 cards I find and I picked up two. I saw a friend of mine down in the Los Angeles area who wants me to clean out his garage of the S-100 stuff (he was a software/hardware developer) and his wife want to get rid of the DEC Rainbow with software and docs. Storage is a *real* problem though so I sometimes picking stuff up unless I really have to. From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Mar 2 01:59:11 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: Greetings list-friends.... Though I mainly Lurk here, with your kind indulgence I would like to add another fiber to the 'WRU' thread now extant, because it is so fascinating seeing the "unity-in-diversity" theme alive and well. I am 46 and currently chief engineer at one of the big LA movie studios. It's an awful lot of fun with a little stress thrown in from time to time, just to keep me awake. I have two inter-related Main Interests: music and electronics. I began piano at 6, organ at 12, and in HS and college played also various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 lived in all it's glory. I was utterly hooked. I had to have one, right then, in my room, mine all mine. It was the *smell* also, the warm electronics, the smell of the tape, and the sound... After college (BSEE) and the Draft, I worked at various music-related tech jobs thru the 70's and early 80's, then did some years as a systems analyst and data comm products manager for a Big Phone Company. Got my fill of computer-programming; I'm a hardware guy. Along the way I filed some patents, wrote a few papers and some short stories, and recorded hours of often-forgettable music. Then the movie business happened, and the rest is geography. Currently I have six PDP-11 systems in various states of being and about twenty or so micros and related items strewn all over the house... my living room now looks like a circa-Seventies college computing center. I also have a Pent-100 machine under W95, an AST 486/33 for fax and voice mail, and a Mac PPC and MAC SE in my home studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection, vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind. I've held a Ham radio ticket for many years, and just now I'm about two weeks away from getting a pilot's license, *if* the examiner and the weather are co-incident and *if* I pass the damn checkride... oops, off topic. sorry. I share Tim Shoppa's concern for preservation of recorded media, and I am very active in the restoration and preservation of the record of our society before it is gone forever. This is the main drive for my collection.... also I have, like Sam, many thousands of books, and among them several dozen computer-related ones, from the late forties on. It's very true: anyone can get hardware, but the docs, well, there's another thing entirely. I have a webpage, which I need badly to revise, but here is a view of some of the collection: www.lightsound.org. Now I really *must* get it brought up-to-date.. ;} Okay: enough bandwidth for one evening. E-mail is welcome and checked often. Cheers John From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 02:22:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, John Lawson wrote: > studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection, > vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth > modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a > fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with > period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's > music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind. Is there a vintage synth mailing list? When I was at UCSD, a couple of my roommates where grad students at CME/CARL (home of Csound, I think). I hacked music on my Amiga, an Ensoniq Mirage, and a too-cool ARP 2600. I would really like to find an ARP 2600 or similar analog synth. If anybody here has an extra (I know you do; computer geeks, musicians, and physicists are almost completely overlapping sets), please let me know! -- Doug From anders.sponton at tellus.vallentuna.se Mon Mar 2 03:18:58 1998 From: anders.sponton at tellus.vallentuna.se (Anders Sponton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Subscribe Message-ID: <01bd45bc$3ba2dfe0$53ec0dc1@elektra.tellus.vallentuna.se> subscribe anders.sponton@tellus.vallentuna.se http://www.tellus.vallentuna.se/gymninfo/personal/anders/andersus.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/60bad1e3/attachment.html From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 2 04:15:43 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00a401bd45c4$2ad439e0$1cf438cb@nostromo> My demographics: I'm 33 and from Sydney, Australia. I'm a Taswegian by birth, and my first intro to computers was a gift of a 4 function calculator from my mother when I was 10. That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime interest in computers - the quirky and unusual. Mixed with a dollop of nostalgia (it's not what it used to be), and you have me today - a collector of just about anything that calculates and isn't too big (we're renting). So, slide rules, mechanical calculators, handheld electronic calculators and recently some of the early home micros and game machines. That's my collecting field. Our house blows a fuse when I turn on the dishwasher and the washing machine; there's just no way I'm going to have a mainframe running here for anything over a couple of milliseconds. I'm a programmer by nature - having earned my stripes on the console machines of the mid to late 80s (Nintendo and Super Nintendo, Commodore 64, etc). Mainly 6502 stuff. I'm now programming what we call Interactive Multipath Movies - real time rendered 3D movies with which you can interact and see story changes as you interact. Its quite neat, actually - I just bought shares in our company. Anyway, my other passion is lost information. I find the search for missing information - the gathering together of widely dislocated pieces - somewhat enjoyable. Why, just today I tracked down the original owner of my Exidy Sorcerer. I've been known to track down the owner of a slide rule deposited in a junk store some 20 years ago. He was rather surprised to hear from a guy from Australia - and unfortunately thought I was a kook! Well, maybe I am :) I'm married to a lovely American lady, and we have two rugrats. The kids just love circular slide rules and my little girl (3yo) begs me to let her clean my calculators. Which, of course, I do. I invite you all to visit my web sites, devoted to various parts of my collecting interests... Museum of Soviet Calculators (currently a Yahoo! and Netscape Cool LInk) http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ Weird Computing Machines http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/ I have various other sites, but not related to computing. I'm hoping, eventually, to move back to Tasmania - the place I grew up and the place my heart longs for. Of course, my computers and calculators will move with me. I'm sure the wife and kids will come too :) My collection consists of the following, and lots of widgets I forget... Wang calculator (interesting) Altair 8800b Kaypro II Exidy Sorcerers OSI Challenger Atari 800 Commodore C64 KIM-1 BBC Creativision Soviet Calculators (about a dozen) HP calculators (nearly, but not quite, the whole set) Slide rules and the prize.... a Thatcher Calculator. I welcome all emails, but warn that due to the large amount of email my sites generate I'm sometimes less than quick to respond! Cheers A adavie@mad.scientist.com From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon Mar 2 05:43:43 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45d0$740f0f20$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. Hi, I'm Hans Olminkhof, mid 40's, a mechanical engineer living in Sydney Australia. Married, 3 kids. I don't have much to do with computers for a living, building the occasional Lotus Notes database being about it. I was originally exposed to computers as an undergraduate and remember writing my first program on punchcards in Forgo, a students version of Fortran2. It ran on an IBM 1620 or something at the University of Western Australia where we could see in the next room a PDP6 in all it's blue glory. Never got any closer to that though. The next year we were limited to remote teletypes linked to the new computer, a Cyber72 which I never saw. I had no contact with computers again until about 1986 when I finally found something useful to do on them, Finite Element Analysis. (engineer stuff). We bought a 286 for home about 1991 and spent $500 a year later get the 80Mb hard drive in it fixed. Not long afterwards I figured out how easy it was to do all that myself. One day in about 1993, I said to someone in a shop what a museum piece the IBM AT I was looking at was. Somehow the conversation got around to me never having even seen the original IBM PC. Then came a trip to the back room to see racks and racks of them. I walked away with one for $20, got to fiddling with it and a few weeks later owned another dozen or so. They would have been on their way to the tip otherwise. I got very interested in the idea of keeping them alive and in the whole idea of how quickly this technology was progressing and disappearing. Anyway, now I've got a whole heap of old computers, maybe half of them working, lots of old software to go with them, manuals etc. I spend a few hours a weekend looking around for more. The list includes: IBM PC's, XT's, AT's, Portable PC's, Convertibles, Displaywriters Compaq Portable's, Portable Plus's, Portable II's Kaypro II's, and IV's Various Apple II's and early Mac's Atari 400's and an 800 Various Apricots A heap of Sirius's (Victor 9000 in USA) Decmate III's Osborne 1's and Executives DOT's An original PET A CBM3032 and the wreck of an 8032 A Compupro box A Cromenco C10 Various BBC's HP 85's, 71B's and a 110 An MAI 4105 Various Microbees An NEC APC and a number of APC III's NEC 8201, 8401, Tandy Model 100 Olivetti M21 Panasonic 840 Sharp PC 5000, 2 X 7000's, MZ811 Sinclair ZX81 and Spectrum's Epson HX20 Canon A200's probably some I forgot, and some uniquely Australian machines, a "Porchester Executive", a "PortaPak" and a Dick Smith "Mini Scamp" (a 1977 kit) I've also got some PDP11 stuff coming when I organise a truck! From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Mar 1 06:50:10 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803021148.WAA21488@arthur.merlin.net.au> My turn. :) I'm a collector in Adelaide, South Australia - not the only one here, but one of a very small number. I'm 28, and until very recently I was a student, doin a Masters in Philosophy. (In case anyone cares, my thesis concerns the ethical status of hypothetical artificial minds - basically I'm looking at the criteria for ethical value employed with people and in animal ethics, and working out whether that criteria can be met by an artificial intelligence). As far as occupations go, I have a few (being a typical long-term student) - I'm a welder, do some web page design, some internet consultancy, Perl coding, teach ethics and critical thinking to nurses, actually get paid to MOO, work occasionally as a human guinea pig in medical tests and I am a professional Teddy Bear artist. :) I've worked in a few other areas, but they'e the most recent/current ones. Anything to pay for more computers. I started collecting late last year, although I had wanted to for ages. My first computer that I used was my uncle's Microbee - an Australian Z80 kit computer - but I rapidly moved to the TRS-80 Model 1 and Vic-20. Last year I was offered a Lisa 2/5 to save it from being scrapped, so I figured it was about time I went and picked up all the old computers I wanted when I was younger. Mostly I only get Micros, but I do branch out - it seems that I'm getting my first supercomputer soon. :) My current collection consists of (from memory - I'll probably miss a few): Amstrad CPC6128 (x2) and Notepad NC100 Apple ][+, ][e enhanced, ][e platinum, ][c (x6), ][gs, ///+, Lisa 2/5, Mac 512k Atari VCS, 400, 800, 800xl (x2), Portfolio Commodore VIC-20 (x3), 64c (x2), SX-64, 128, PC-10 DEC Microvax II Dick Smith Electronics Wizard, Dick Smith System 80 (x2), VZ-300 Exidy Sorcerer Honeywell Microsystem 6 (I'm still hunting for any information about this one). IBM PC/XT Mattel Intelvision Memotech MTX-500 Microbee 64k Sharp MZ-721 Surwave Amigo Tandy TRS-80 Model 4P, CoCo 1, CoCo 2 Wang 286 And today an OSI Challenger 4P arrived. :) Keen. My bigest wishes at the moment are for a NeXT Cube, and Apple ][c+ and a Spectravideo 318/328. Adam. From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Mon Mar 2 06:16:04 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45d4$f8bf1ea0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> >That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it >tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw >it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime >interest in computers - the quirky and unusual. > My first calculator, a Sinclair Cambridge, did that as well. Perhaps someone on the list could enlighten us as to whehter this was a common weakness of early calculators, and possibly why those who wrote the code for them allowed it to happen ;-) My condensed bio: I am 40 years old and live near Shrewsbury (UK), on the border between England and Wales. I have had an interest in computers since 1985 when I worked for the local council as a Meat Inspector. The Environmental Health Department got their first computer and I wrote some applications for it and then decided that I wanted to be a programmer for the rest of my life. I have been to University 1 day per week for the last 5 years and gained a BSc in Computer Studies last September. I am currently working (bored and underpaid ;-() as a MIS programmer for a college of further education producing reports in Access. Apart from collecting computers I enjoy motorcycling and rock climbing. My collection consists of: 1 MicroVAX II with a TK50, 4 RA81s and an RA82 3 Sun 386i, I working and 2 with dead/dying NVRAMs 1 Tulip PC Compact 2 - NEC V30, 40Mb hard disk 1 Sinclair Spectrum 48k 1 Sinclair Spectrum +2 1 Amstrad CPC464 with colour monitor (and off topic) 1 486DX2 PC running linux 24/7 except when I have to reluctantly reboot into Win95 1 Toshiba T3100SX portable with dead LCD display Wish list: The one I would really like is an ICL Quattro - The first machine I programmed and administered. It was an 8086 based machine with 10Mb hard drive and 1Mb RAM running CCP/M86 and capable of supporting 4 terminals each of which could support 4 virtual terminals giving a theoretical total of 16 users. Not bad for an 8086 :-). The later 'go faster' version had a 286 processor. Regards Pete From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 07:31:38 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: HP 64100A In-Reply-To: <056901bd444c$13b56460$3af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302073138.3b172822@intellistar.net> Andrew, I've never seen the machine but I have a bunch of manuals for it if you decide to get it. Joe At 12:23 AM 3/1/98 +1100, you wrote: >MAINFRAME HEWLETT PACKARD Model:64100A >THE 64100A IS THE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT OF THE 64000 DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM, CONSISTS >OF CONSOLE WITH INTEGRAL 12" CRT, FULL ASCII KEYBOARD, RS-232 INTERFACE AND >SPACE FOR 10 OPTION CARDS. UNIT HAS 64941A OPTION CARD CONTROLLING 2 X 5" >FLOPPY DRIVES > >This is available for CAN$45 > >Is this rare/desirable? I'm thinking of passing it up anyway, but just >curious. >A > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 08:17:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Unapproved obfuscations (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980228203916.01102a10@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302081744.3a574a80@intellistar.net> At 08:39 PM 2/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 22:16 2/28/98 +0000, you wrote: >>I pulled a much more trivial example at a place I was working at over 10 >>years ago. I had to write a program, and for various reasons I wanted to >>use Turbo Pascal. But it wasn't on the list of 'approved' languages, so I >>couldn't order the 'Turbo Pascal Compiler'. What I could order was >>'Borland part number XXXXXXX data logger program compilation system' (I >>was writing a data logging system).... > >Reminds me of a story Willy Ley used to tell about getting around military >procurement regs when he was developing antiaircraft rockets for the >Wehrmacht in the thirties. They had this asinine rule that you couldn't >use Army development grant money to buy office supplies, yet Ley's little >boffin shop urgently needed a typewriter. Now, a couple of times before >they had hit on the dodge of ordering unapproved items "as per sample" ( = >"on eval") on the (correct) theory that if the green-eyeshades had never >seen the sample, they'd shrug and let it through anyway. So, the >description they came up with for the typewriter was "Data logging device >with rotating roller and annotating capability, as per sample." Needless >to say, it worked.... > His actual description was more like "machine for milling wooden dowels with conical point". From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 07:26:59 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Message-ID: <34FAB3A3.538706B9@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the > tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't > remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around > here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a > few made (10s of thousands.) 10's of thousands in computers is nothing, you know that. When they get in the millions and billions like the PS, XT and AT they become commonplace. What operating system does the Vector 3 run? Do you have any idea if it was made for a specific purpose such as a graphics workstation (in black and white)? I'd like to know a little more about it before I spend the time delving into it more or even trying to locate a new home for it (heavy beast). The external case is probably the same for ones with or without a hard disk but with added MFM type cabling. If you have the controller card and cabling already then I'm sure you could easily add a 506 interface drive. I appreciate any info you can provide and if you have multiple copies of the manuals and may want to part with one, let me know. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 02:24:59 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw Message-ID: <199803021324.IAA23216@smtp.interlog.com> On the weekend I picked up a mint Zenith (luggable). Nosing around the thrift I also found 4 10pack containers of DEC Formula One 5 1/4 RX50 floppies. 1 of which contained programs. As well there were 2 Decmate II Word Processor manuals (no disks) and a Decmate II Hardware Documentation manual with 2 disks. Sys. Overview and Sys.Test Diskette. The program disks were a 4part AT&T MSDOS v.3.3 rel 1.01 ; a clock patch and 2 Test Diag. marked PC 6300 and an HP labelled disk with Vectra msdos 3.1. $30 (Can.) A real score. The Zenith is similiar to the Kaypro and Compaq luggables with a cooler design. Along with the int. monitor it has a double pop-up A/B drives and 3 ports on the rear as well as an RCA looking jack. (for an external monitor ?). Best of all it booted with the AT&T disks. The Disks marked PC6300 did nothing and the Vectra gave me a no command.com present tho I was able to get a dir. listing which showed one. Anyone with info on this 'chine ? I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the shop separately, but a nagging idea of the Rainbows ability to boot msdos came to mind. I also finally found a DEC k-b for a long-dormant Rainbow which has a 5meg Seagate. When I get the 15-pin video cable I'll be able to check further. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From dolar at khi.compol.com Mon Mar 2 07:39:43 1998 From: dolar at khi.compol.com (Ikhlas Ahmad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: System 36 Message-ID: <34FAB69F.D27@khi.compol.com> Ref your email send on 19-oct-1997 I have a system 36 model 5363 with 3 twin axil terminals. If you are interested please reply. Ikhlas Ahmad From altair8800 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 07:43:51 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 - Should I buy it? Message-ID: <19980302134351.13603.qmail@hotmail.com> I found an Altair 8800 yesterday in a computer repair shop. It has been upgraded with a 16 slot motherboard and the MITS cards were replaced with a Cromemco CPU and Cromemco 64k ram card. Does the upgrade significantly hurt the value of it? Or are the Cromemeco boards equally valuable? The owner will sell it for $500 and will throw in some other non-MITS S-100 cards (Cromemco TUART, Cromemco Quadart, Godbout 32k ram card, etc. I have a pretty good idea of what the Altair 8800 is worth in it's original configuration but I am in the dark when it has been upgraded. Does anyone know where I might find an original Altair 8800 CPU card and 8 slot motherboard. I have a MITS ram card. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kroma at worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 2 07:43:45 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Fw: help: Apple][<==> PDP-8 Message-ID: <008501bd45e1$39788600$6887440c@kroma-i> I saw this on comp.sys.apple2. Can anyone help? I don't think he is on the list. -- Kirk -----Original Message----- From: James Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:10 PM Subject: help: Apple][<==> PDP-8 >Hi. >I would like to replace my near dead teletype (paper tape works, but the >CR does not work properly) with either my //c or //e. >I figure I could just use a serial port, but the PDP-8 (compatible) uses >a teletype connector, and I don't know how to create a proper cable. >Also, how would I get the PDP-8 programs from the paper tape reader on >the teletype to the Apple ][? >Has any one done something like this before? I have heard that people >have done this with a PC. The PDP-8 news group appears dead, and I have >not been able to find any web resources on this subject. > >You may ask "Why?" >Well, I'm not really sure, but I sure do love watching all those pretty >LED's flickering on the PDP-8 front panel! I also have loads of paper >tape, and I want to know what it all does. > >Thanks for your help, >James >jmcp@pacbell.net > > From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 08:06:03 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. I think the first 'computer' I programmed seriously was a Canon SX320 calculator, which was a desktop machine with a full keyboard and 40? col printer. I also did Fortran and Algol-W programming at highschool. My first computer of my own was an 8080 S-100 system, c.1978. I still have that system (in NZ) though it hasn't run for 10 or so years. I also have a twin-integrator differential analyser that I made from a design in Scientific American. I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one for the TRS80 (a company in Auckland produced a bank-switching/FDC board to fit into the System80.) In 1982, while at uni, I acquired an IBM 360/30 system via the local micro club. It had sat unused for 10+ years, but I got it going. For the full saga see http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/nbree/saga.html. Last I heard it was rescued by Auckland Uni. After uni I did embedded work, mainly Z80, until the '87 crash meant that most of the companies I worked for scaled things down. My partner and I went into office PCs, LANs etc. which went really well, and we moved into accounting systems and other such stuff. Unfortunately for me, despite being lucrative, this was getting rather boring, so I packed it in and came over here for a change of scene. My first job here was embedded work for racing car dataloggers and instruments. My last project for that company was the dashboard for the Lotus Elise (68HC11 running Forth) and I went on to look after the datalogging on the BTCC Ford Mondeo Touring Cars (FYI the Bosch engine management system in the '96 BTCC Mondeo had 17 processors in it, 12 8b + 5 16b and cost GBP16k.) This sounds like a glamour job (hey, you get on TV) but after a while it's just tedious long hours. So now I do test rig programming work for a company that makes gearboxes for the likes of Indycars, F1, GT and Touring Cars. It's quite exciting watching a differential rig simulating Damon Hill lapping at Monaco. Well, it is for me anyway. Apart from the 486 OS/2 system I'm using now, and my PalmPilot, I don't have any computers here, vintage or otherwise. I do have an interest in the history of computers, like Babbage's designs, the differential analysers, Colossus ... The one computer I would love to get is an Educ-8, which I think the Australians may know of. It is a TTL 8-bit machine, designed by Jameson (Jim) Rowe. When its design was published in EA (c.1975) I read all the articles, but I was too young and poor to afford to make one. I did play with one may years later, and I have written an emulator in Smalltalk, but I would still like to get my hands on one. Other hobbies include Volvo cars (I have a '65 P1800 in NZ) and listening to IndiePop music, especially that on glittery 7"s, hence the 'GirlFrendo' homepage. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 2 09:16:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803021516.AA23364@world.std.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: >I've been dorking around with this idea for a while now, and >this seems a good lead-in. The basic problem was that the >classiccmp web page seems to be permanently dead. Very cool idea and implementation, although something inside me likes finding machines through chaos and luck, as opposed to having an well-organized team. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 2 09:09:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Discontinued Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302090944.00be4d10@pc> Tim Shoppa wrote: >And you also have to consider that at least 95% of the Walnut >Creek CD-ROM was simply assembled from materials lying around >the net and on various CP/M BBS's. I'm not sure how they >got permission for the remaining 5% (things such as the Ampro >Little Board BIOS sources, etc.) That's the big pitfall of publishing supposedly public domain CDs... even if you are absolutely careful and secure written permission from everyone who claims to have made something on the disc, you can never be quite sure that someone wasn't telling the truth, especially if there's any sort of compensation involved. If you redistribute something that the creator doesn't want distributed, you could be in for trouble. And of course it takes a lot of effort to nicely assemble and categorize the thousands of files on a CD. That makes a good product, but not all CDs are as good as they could be. lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >erm, isn't the walnut creek cd-rom predominantly stocked with the same >stuff that is on oak? which kind of implies that so long as you aren't >doing it for profit, it's just another kind of distribution. It can be tough to tell who really owns what, in terms of the "collection copyright." By means of analogy, a publisher who makes a book of poems retains the copyright of the way they assemble the poems, and they need to secure the right to redistribute each poem, but it doesn't mean they own the poems. It's possible that the people who organized the Oakland site never considered that they were sitting on a valuable property. In 1994 my company secured permission to press a CD of the popular 3D model ftp site called "Avalon" without any payment whatsoever. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 2 10:42:16 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45fa$28ab56e0$LocalHost@hotze> I might as well jump on while everyone else does... I'm not too new, not too old to this list, starting in October/November. I'm 12 years old, and therefore, as far as I can tell, the youngest person in this list. (Although, I could, of course be wrong) I'm the sond of an American diplomat, and have lived in Bahrain for nearly 3 1/2 years. This July, I'm moving to Guyana, after going back to Witicha, Kansas and DC. As the age implies, I probably haven't been into computers too long. My main computer actually is my first, it WAS a Compaq Presario CDS 633, with a 486SX 33MHz processor, 4MB of RAM (immeidately upgraded to 12MB), and, after upgrading, now it's a 486DX/2 66, 28MB RAM, 2.1GB HDD, but still with the same video, sound and controller cards as before. It's role is getting slowly replaced with my new Cyrix 200 that I built in December. (The 31st, just before Midnight). Back in 1994, when I got my first computer, I was always interested in programming. I started with QBasic, and still use BASIC to do most work. Just today I've made my first (partially useable) C++ program. Let's see: I'm unemployed (except always bored as a 7th grade student), am not married (as you could guess, living in the Mid East's getting to me), have no children and do not live in New York. But, in my spare time I work with my friend Zack Boyd (we met on the Internet) on the web page, The Review Guide (at http://members.theglobe.com/ReviewGuide/index.html) We hope to be moving soon to a .com address, just after we get reviews up, etc. It's basically for fun, to try new products, and, for me, mostly to get credibility for college, etc. (yes, I'm already possed with it, and would like info that anyone has on this subject, right now, I'll do almost anything....) I started collecting with a PC XT, and still have it, it's still waiting for a controller and HDD. ;-) Lets see... I'm starting an online community, and am going to be asking in the next few days for people interested. I'm really unsatified with the learning going on in school, (you'll understand with the online community post) , and love learning, like classical music up through lots of different stuff that I don't know what category it goes under... use Windows, am getting familiar with Linux... and, that's it. Bye, Tim D. Hotze From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 10:53:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Discontinued In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980302090944.00be4d10@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 2, 98 09:09:44 am Message-ID: <9803021653.AA02623@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f95b6176/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 10:58:23 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 - Should I buy it? In-Reply-To: <19980302134351.13603.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Mar 2, 98 05:43:51 am Message-ID: <9803021658.AA24139@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/d3d900fa/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 11:10:15 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) In-Reply-To: (message from Tony Duell on Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:35:35 +0000 (GMT)) Message-ID: <199803021710.MAA14989@mail.iac.net> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:35:35 +0000 (GMT) > From: Tony Duell > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) > > > The first trap is that this monitor has a live (hot) chassis, or at least > the 115V models do. The video input is opto-isolated so that the TRS-80 > itself can be grounded/floating. This means that you need to be more > careful than usual when working inside this unit - mains on all the > exposed metalwork is a good way to get killed! In fact, I'd say that you > shouldn't attempt to repair this unit unless (a) you have an isolation > transformer and (b) you know why you should use one. > Thanks Tony. I didn't know this, and don't consider myself competent enough to open up the box and do more than clean the pots. I've done some simple work (replacing flybacks, logic boards, etc) on VT100's previously - if I do decide to open this thing up, rather than using another monitor, I'll be extra careful and make certain to let it sit and dicharge it's capacitors before opening. J. Maynard Gelinas From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 2 11:24:08 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803021724.AA13839@world.std.com> < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the <> The first trap is that this monitor has a live (hot) chassis, or at lea <> the 115V models do. The video input is opto-isolated so that the TRS-80 <> itself can be grounded/floating. This means that you need to be more BIG TIME!!!! Take all the care in the world with this one. FYI the monitor is isolated from the trs80 via opto isolators so there is no DC or AC connection between the two. The optos are pressed real hard to run at video (luminance) rates so they can sometime be a cause of porr video. <> careful than usual when working inside this unit - mains on all the <> exposed metalwork is a good way to get killed! In fact, I'd say that yo <> shouldn't attempt to repair this unit unless (a) you have an isolation <> transformer and (b) you know why you should use one. Having worked on these at Tandy I can say first hand that is no lie! I've been wacked a few time over the years, it hurts...if your lucky! from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 28, 98 10:08:03 am Message-ID: <199803021742.MAA04120@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I think I can find one of my extra sdk85, sdk51 and maybe a sdk86. What do you have to trade? I am interested in sbc, hp42, and portable unix based machines. John > > > > Me too. > > A PDP-8E/F/M > > A PDP-8A > > DOCS for an IMSAI IMP48 > > Single board computers; Intel sdk85, moto 6800d1 or d3, AIM65, SYM65 > > > Allison > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 2 11:46:34 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: gold recovery Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302114634.00c0a6a0@pc> Let the seller beware when it comes to these recovery shops. Unless you bother to find an independent assessment of your metals, you have no idea whether they're basing their price on the actual gold content or not. They're just finding a price at which you'll surrender the goods. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 12:40:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: not the Sys/34 again!!! In-Reply-To: <19980302005539.16185.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13336517919.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> No, it's not. The PSU is about the size of a PDP11 (MicroPDP). There's also line voltage present inside with the box off. It can be rewired for various voltages, but you need IBM's directions. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 12:50:35 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13336519671.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Japnese = Kanji?] Could be. There are 3 Japanese alphabets, Hirigana, Katakana, and Kanji. I can tell the 3 apart, but that's about it... It's probablyhirigana. Katakana are used for foreign words, Kanji are the neat one-word-to -a-picture characters. There's more than 4000 of them. Hirigana are used for Japanese word where you don't know/there is no kanji, I don't know Japanese, but I plan to learn it someday... ------- From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 2 13:13:54 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed In-Reply-To: <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the > tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't > remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around > here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a > few made (10s of thousands.) Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi drives? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Mon Mar 2 13:25:59 1998 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:38:14 GMT." Message-ID: <199803021925.NAA05213@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> In message , ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: >> >> At 23:15 2/27/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> ) >> >> the name Linn and the funny spelling, I keep thinking this is something >> like a turntable, but if so, why mention it here? What is it? > >It _is_ the Linn Hi-Fi company, but it's a microprocessor, not a turntable. And the Linn Smart Computing subsidiary in particular. >I don't think it ever went into production (which means the chances of >finding one are pretty remote), but IIRC it's a >microprocessor/microcontroller with an instruction set optimised for >object-orientated programming. I don't know that much about it, but I >know enough to know that I want one ! The November 1988 (almost 10 years) issue of Byte has a good article on it. That's an issue worth having anyway since it has the first view of the NeXT most of us saw. The CPU is indeed object oriented and is built using three gate arrays, the Numerik, the Logik and the Objekt. The article shows a VME board called HADES with a complete Rekursiv system. The board is of course driven by the Klok chip. >> Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > >-tony Brian L. Stuart From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 2 13:37:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021724.AA13928@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the > > Rainbows did run MSdos versions 1.1 and 2.11.. I may even have a copy of > 2.11(rx50). > > Allison > You can also d/l MSDOS 3.10 for the Rainbow by ftp from update.uu.se. It is a TeleDisk image as I recall. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:01:39 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> References: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302150139.47373286@intellistar.net> At 11:41 AM 3/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >>> Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the >>> computers. A lot quieter too. > >Not if you have a running, large VAX. Wanna bet? Ive heard 14" disks packs with every head crashed that are quieter than my kids. Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 2 14:01:05 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo> I have a canon SX320!! >I think the first 'computer' I programmed seriously was a Canon SX320 >calculator, which was a desktop machine with a full keyboard and 40? col >printer. I also did Fortran and Algol-W programming at highschool. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:15:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021324.IAA23216@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302151555.473761ec@intellistar.net> Larry, FWIW I've palyed with the AT&T 6300s quite a bit and they seem to be completely IBM compatable even to the point of booting and running IBM MS-DOS. The Zeniths were also extremely IBM compatable, so it's no surprise that the 6300 disks will work in the Zenith. BTW I found two complete AT&T doc/software packages in a trift store here if you interested. Doesn't look like they were ever opened. ALL the docs and ALL the disks are there. They also have several 6300s including a 6300+ (80286 CPU instead of 8086) in the store if you're interested. Joe At 08:24 AM 3/1/98 +0000, you wrote: >On the weekend I picked up a mint Zenith (luggable). Nosing >around the thrift I also found 4 10pack containers of DEC Formula One >5 1/4 RX50 floppies. 1 of which contained programs. As well there >were 2 Decmate II Word Processor manuals (no disks) and a Decmate II >Hardware Documentation manual with 2 disks. Sys. Overview and >Sys.Test Diskette. > The program disks were a 4part AT&T MSDOS v.3.3 rel 1.01 > ; a clock patch and 2 Test Diag. marked PC 6300 and an HP labelled >disk with Vectra msdos 3.1. $30 (Can.) A real score. > The Zenith is similiar to the Kaypro and Compaq luggables with a >cooler design. Along with the int. monitor it has a double pop-up >A/B drives and 3 ports on the rear as well as an RCA looking jack. >(for an external monitor ?). Best of all it booted with the AT&T >disks. The Disks marked PC6300 did nothing and the Vectra gave me a >no command.com present tho I was able to get a dir. listing which >showed one. Anyone with info on this 'chine ? > I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the >shop separately, but a nagging idea of the Rainbows ability to boot >msdos came to mind. I also finally found a DEC k-b for a long-dormant >Rainbow which has a 5meg Seagate. When I get the 15-pin video cable >I'll be able to check further. > >ciao larry > >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > From william at ans.net Mon Mar 2 14:18:07 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > RIP: [stuff deleted] ...object-oriented architecures Just do not tell IBM, they still make lots of money selling AS/400s! William Donzelli william@ans.net From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:39:55 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803022039.UAA12437@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> "lart"? :Lusr Attidute Readjustment Tool... What you want to use on the idiot :who's just fed a banana through the card reader :-) hehehe :> the only irritating thing about you, tony, is that everything we say we want, you pop up and say you've got ;> we have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in britain will gravitate to chez duell... :I always thoguht the Commodore method of keeping the disk turning :at the same speed and changing the data rate made more sense. :Certainly seeking would be faster as you wouldn't have to wait for :the disk speed to change and stabilise. on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to mention making sure the controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, certainly in later years commodore never really got the hang of the speed disks should run at... also, it's worth bearing in mind that the mac had a very fine grain of control over the speed of the disk drive originally, and could bump it up a notch (out of 400 or so) if it was running a little on the slow side. because the data decode was in software, that was feasible. :> it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have :>been if it *had* to use that particular architecture... :Having looked at a number of non-PC 8088/8086 machines, I am :convinced that _all_ of them are superior to the IBM PC... not hard, given the design principles of the pc. on the other hand, they're still hamstrung by the basic architecture of the thing. were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that? [daybreak] :> hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :> :\pounds 10.00 including 19" mono monitor, floppy drive and tape :streamer, but missing the keyboard and mouse. You're right - I did :buy it. just call us psychic ;> [tiger] :Rumour was that the selling price for the CPU unit (The CPU was in :the keyboard case - it looks a little like a BBC micro with :multi-coloured function keys) would have been around \pounds 3000. :No wonder they never sold any... no wonder. a case of not only completely missing the market, but also the point... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:40:01 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803022040.UAA12459@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> since everyone else is at it... the identity we received at birth is available to anyone who asks, but we adopted the collective name "communa" a few moths back, on realising that we're multiple. it's raised a few eyebrows since, but that's life. we're 23, and our first computer was a second-hand zx81 at the age of 9, followed with reasonable swiftness by a new zx81 and memotech rampack. the rampack died after a few years of non-use, and by then we had moved on and up, and weren't much interested in the zx81 any more (we maintain that attitude; it was a handy springboard, it was nice to have used one, but it was the first and only eminently *disposable* computer...) over the years we also acquired: * a commodore 16, complete with tally roll printer; * a memotech mtx512; * a sinclair ql with serial port - we are currently waiting for a friend at work to throw some more bits our way; * a trigem xt with 40Mb hard disk, hgc monitor and panasonic kxp1170 printer - faithful workhorse for 5 years; * an amstrad nc100 that we don't use anywhere near as much as we should; * an original zx spectrum 48; * a spectrum +2; * a 286 motherboard, then a 386sx motherboard, an old case someone left behind on doing a runner, a digital vga mono monitor and olivetti card, 4 1Mb simms, and a win95 keyboard, for use as a convenience system (and for internet surfing); * an ncr 286 computer that looks like a paving slab and came with ega colour monitor and lovely keyboard; * and there may well be a decstation 3100 going at work if we can arrange / wangle it. (plus a ridiculously heavy 300Mb scsi hard drive box that feels as if someone forgot to remove the lead casing...) a preponderance of home computers and odd pcs (with the exception of this 386, none are particularly standard inside), which we are not very happy about - hence our published wish list. for our living, we do things with webs and databases - sometimes in connection - with a little company based in sleepy gargrave (typical village - 3 shops, 3 pubs, about 200 houses, pathetic public transport) and have done for a year, during which time we have seen the depth of our overdraft *increase*. (hmm...) however, it does mean that now we have the money to pursue a dream, which is to acquire old and interesting hardware and write operating systems for them. and therein lies our interest in classic computers; less for the beasts themselves, more for the programming challenges and joys that they would present. hence we'll focus on specific architectures rather than specific machines. it's also something of a revolt against the trend in the modern computer market, especially with regard to software. before that, we studied computer science at bradford university, but lost interest once we realised that we already knew most of what we were being told, and didn't particularly want to know the rest. we nearly failed; we got a degree out of it, just. we'd prefer a job that tallied better with our interests; on the other hand, there's a novelist here trying to get out, and we suspect that this would represent our future career development. (but because of who we are, we don't want to write a book until we've written the word processor. :> ) and we'd also like to have more time to ourself and our interests. oh, and we're devoted to our three cats, firstborn, blackie and calliope - our babies. they come first in all considerations. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:40:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302154035.47377b36@intellistar.net> At 08:51 PM 2/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > > > What does PDP mean, exactly? Is it something like the PC standard? >> > > >> > > PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was the name that DEC used instead of >> > > the word 'Computer' for various reasons, most of them lost in the folklore. >> > >> > According to _Computer: A History of the Information Machine_ by Martin >> > Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray (BasicBooks, ISBN: 0-465-02989-2 [hard] >> > 0-465-02990-6 [paper]), Len Olsen is quoted as choosing the name >> ^^^ >> I don't know if that's an error in the original, or a typo, but I'm >> pretty sure it should be 'Ken'. > >Sorry. Blatant typo. It is in fact "Ken" ('k' is right next to 'l'). > >> > Programmed Data Processor because nobody would believe that "in 1960 >> > computers that could do the job could be built for less than $1 million." >> >> That's certainly one of the reasons that I've heard. Another is that >> there was either a tax on 'computers' or that if you were a >> government-funded place (state funded?) you could only buy 'computers' >> from a very few approved companies. So Digital/DEC didn't make >> 'computers' - they made Programmed Data Processors. Whether either of >> those reasons is true I don't know. > >I've heard this reason for other "computers" not being called that as >well...things like computers being called calculators because one couldn't >get a computer in the budget. It's a known fact that HP called many of their machine calculators instead of computers in order to get around the export restrictions on computers. Joe From engine at chac.org Mon Mar 2 14:43:11 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980302150139.47373286@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302124311.00f5ad40@pop.batnet.com> At 15:01 3/2/98, Joe wrote: >At 11:41 AM 3/1/98 -0800, Kip wrote: >>Not if you have a running, large VAX. > > Wanna bet? Ive heard 14" disk packs with every head crashed that are >quieter than my kids. Erh....your point is well taken, but I was talking about the fan noise. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 16:45:51 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302164551.2ef77a8c@intellistar.net> At 11:59 PM 3/1/98 -0800, John wrote: > > >various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took >me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the >glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 John, Can you tell me more about the GE 635s? I got a collection of old programming manuals and they state that all the programs in them were tested on a GE 635 and I was wondering what one is. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 17:10:12 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <199802261421.IAA15833@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302171012.43bfdb64@intellistar.net> Brian, I got the disks in the mail today. Thanks. I'll let you know how I do with the 7300. Joe From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:31:26 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Today was my first major interaction with the system/34, unfortunately on 1/2 hour long. Next monday, I can stay there 2-8 PM if I want to... I made the following discoveries: a)It's on casters b)It has a 65MB hard drive c)It's not all that dusty. By virtue of a, I moved it to reveal the CE panel, which had all of the floppies and a little error code booklet tucked inside. This booklet is fairly useless now that IBM doesn't support the 34, but it does list all of the parts and their names. There is a thing that I saw called the DC distribution panel. I was thinking that I might switch the power supply's outputs with the outputs for a normal PC AT PSU, of course not powering the drives. The booklet does imply that the PSU outputs -4, -5, 5,6,8.5,-12,12,-24, and 24 volts. Knowing this I ought to be able to get a couple of PC psus and run it. Next step: finding a room that has power to it - this one doesn't... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:41 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30190@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's :> reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package :>written in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote :I thought it was written in Stoic, which although a threaded :stack-based language like Forth, was somewhat different in the :details. not that different. we have a source listing for stoic on our hard drive at the moment (you want it? we'll mail it) and the major differences from forth were (a) it used a file system with 6 letter names, (b) it compiled everything, even immediate stuff, into a temporary buffer then executed the buffer, (c) you pushed textual words using 'xxxx rather than forth's method of having "WORD" pick up the next word in the input stream. :Not forgetting HP's RPL language which is Forth done even better. :You can push _anything_ onto the stack - integers, reals, strings, :even programs :-) I think the HP28 is now 10 years old, so we can :mention it here. ah, yes... we finally got hold of the dos development suite for this. it's a lovely language, but it departs somewhat from the simplicity and directness we like in forth. on the other hand, it's great for its chosen application, and if you're a lisp fan too... (yes, we are. symbolics 3600 on offer, anyone...? ;> ) what we'd like to see, though, is a forth effectively incorporating the concepts in smalltalk (ie everything on the stack is an object, possibly with a tag bit to differentiate between integers and anything else). have to start hacking one... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:48 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-01 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: :> Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new :>HP machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable :>control store. My friend has one of these boxes at home and he's :>been planning on playing around with this. :I've heard that even Pentiums will let you patch their microcode, yes? details...? *perk up noticeably* :but the idea as a general theme seems to be dead. I don't know the :reason for this except for speed and cost issues. we suspect it has something to do with microcode in general going out of fashion. these days even cisc machines are built with risc cores surrounded by hardware-based translators. some of the pentium clones even let you program them in their native languages. also, it's a bit difficult to write to a control store that's hardwired in silicon inside a plastic case... :< probably a better bet these days is to write a little inner interpreter for a risc, and it probably amounts to much the same thing. :True, some people are condemned to repeat history, but I'm willing :to bet that hardware byte-code engines will be pulled back into the :tar pit before they leave the cave at Sun (and other places). I :listed to a talk given by a Sun engineer on why they should build :these things, and the reasons he gave (such as byte-code is more :compact than other code) are really hard to buy. Defintely a :solution looking for a problem. there's only one reason why sun could want to do this - cheap java-only set-top boxes. it's a great way of locking out the competition (and given their current legal activities, you'd think they'd learn...) but whether it would make for the most efficient java platform is another matter. of course, there's also the proof-of-concept motive. "see? java *is* efficient, we've even built a chip with it..." :True again. p-Code made more sense then (when there was more than :one dominant architecture) than Java does now, but if Sun ever buys :into the idea of Java compiled to native code, there still may be :more hope for Java than there was for UCSD Pascal. well, if they do buy into that idea, let's hope it's at download time rather than with these damned silly just-in-time thingies (which only win if you execute a method more than once, and how do you know that until it's too late...?) elate (was taos) shows the way to go if you want platform independence these days, in our opinion. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:55 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30236@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, :>but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering :>upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and :>think Bill Gates is Good. :Well, my calculator has a homebrew I2C interface on it, which I've :used to control a robot arm,etc. I've written self-modifying RPL on :it, and I've programmed it in its native (Saturn) machine code. I'm :not sure I can tell a calculator from a computer... erm... doesn't that beg the question - does hewlett-packard actually know the difference between a calculator and a computer...? (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack between meetings? ;> ) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 2 16:38:19 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd462b$e674e340$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> My name is Jack Peacock. I'm 42, based in Las Vegas (Nevada, not that other place in New Mexico). I got started in computers way back in 1971, on a Univac 1106, with fixed head and moving head FASTRAND drums. Back then the programming medium of choice was punch cards (yes, I even learned how to program 026 keypunches using drum cards), and if you were lucky a turn at the ASR33 teletype. Does anyone still remember that "other" character set besides Baudot, ASCII and EBCDIC? (Hint, 6 bit Univac character set, started with an F) I got started in the hardware side while working for Lockheed, building environmental monitoring instruments (LIDARs, multi-spectral scanners, low level radiation sample counters)). We needed a cheap data logger with some intelligence that could run unattended for long periods of time, or in aircraft. We had tried HP9830s (ever try flying one in a 2 seater helicopter?), and looked at National IMP-16s and DG Novas, all too big or expensive. Then one day a guy brought in the now famous issue of Popular Electronics, with the Altair kit. We got one, put it together in the lab, and promptly blew up the CPU board. In the early kits there was a tiny defect, seems all the gold fingers on the CPU card were shorted together with a hairline plating error on the card edge, almost too small to see. Know what happens when you put -12 on the +5 line in an 8080? Pieces of it almost hit the ceiling. From that point on, whenever we first turned on an S-100 kit, the warning to everyone else was "Flame On" so they could duck. MITS replaced the board (when 8080 CPUs were still $400 each) and the Altair worked! We actually used it for one project, but it was quickly retired when the IMSAI came out. We bought #17 from IMSAI in December 1975. The IMSAI was very cheap compared to what the other engineering sections who still used minis (DEC and DG) were doing in their projects. We outfitted the IMSAI with a floppy, paper tape, and a VDM CRT display, and we used it to write 8080 code for several years. The board that went into the instruments was the single board 8080 eval kit Intel was selling at the time (SDK-80?). Years later I found out some of the data loggers went more than 10 years in the field without repairs. Intel built good stuff even then. Freshly overconfident from getting an IMSAI to run at work, I bought one myself in 1977 after trying out my skills on a National SC/MP eval kit first. It took a lot of work, and some assistance from the E.E.s at work, but I got the IMSAI running. Virtually all my knowledge of digital electronics came from wire wrapping proto boards for the S-100. In my opinion, it was one of the best platforms for learning real-world electronic design, especially when it's your own money that goes up in smoke when you don't double-check the voltages first. I program for a living these days, incredibly dull accounting applications and tech support. I still have the S-100s, including that original IMSAI (even have the CPU chip left from the SC/MP board). I don't have too much opportunity these days to do electronics, but I keep a hand in designing 8051-based controller boards. Chances are you've seen one of the 8051 boards if you ever come to Las Vegas, they are inside some of the big casino signs on the Strip. The collection is modest: my treasured IMSAI, complete with 22 slot board and front panel, lovingly hand assembled, running CP/M 3 off a 5MB hard drive, Ithaca Z80B, 256KB RAM (still used for production once in a while, it's not a museum piece yet) The rest: an IMSAI VDP, which I work on once in a while several generic 8086 and 286 based S-100 boxes running Concurrent DOS an original IBM AT, circa 1985, upgraded first to a 386 with a Jet adapter, then to a Cyrix 486DR2 (the world's slowest 486, 8Mhz) a MicroVax II (KA630) in a BA-23 pedestal, with an RD54 and 16MB, VMS 5.3 a Vax 3600 (KA650) in a BA-123 box (upgraded MV II), 24 MB, VMS 6.2 several generic 386 PC clones, recycled as controllers on router tables in a machine shop for the moment From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 16:46:27 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 References: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB36C3.A672DB0E@ibmhelp.com> Just curious, isn't the S/34 a 220v box? Max Eskin wrote: > > Today was my first major interaction with the system/34, unfortunately > on 1/2 hour long. Next monday, I can stay there 2-8 PM if I want to... > I made the following discoveries: > a)It's on casters > b)It has a 65MB hard drive > c)It's not all that dusty. > By virtue of a, I moved it to reveal the CE panel, which had all of > the floppies and a little error code booklet tucked inside. This > booklet is fairly useless now that IBM doesn't support the 34, but > it does list all of the parts and their names. There is a thing that > I saw called the DC distribution panel. I was thinking that I might > switch the power supply's outputs with the outputs for a normal PC AT > PSU, of course not powering the drives. The booklet does imply that > the PSU outputs -4, -5, 5,6,8.5,-12,12,-24, and 24 volts. Knowing this > I ought to be able to get a couple of PC psus and run it. Next step: > finding a room that has power to it - this one doesn't... > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 17:02:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980302230243.15428.qmail@hotmail.com> Yes, it is. That's the reason for all this trouble, that I don't know how to get it to run without a 220 volt outlet (it's in a storage room) Now, my question is a bit dumb, I suppose, but why is it that when Intel made the 8086 (which I heard was about as powerful as the 34), IBM made this huge half-ton box only to leave it mostly empty anyway? >Just curious, isn't the S/34 a 220v box? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 15:32:59 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: In article <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo>, Andrew Davie writes >I have a canon SX320!! You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now. Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line, and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a tape storage or cartridges or something for programs? It seems strange to say it, but I can remember the 'feeling' of programming it, even though I can't remember much about the machine itself. BTW I am planning on going to the Whipple Museum of the History of Science, which includes the Francis Hookham Collection of Hand-Held Calculators, in Cambridge tomorrow ... anything I can look up for you? -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 17:10:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something 32-bit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 17:26:54 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems Message-ID: <199803022326.SAA24856@mail.iac.net> OK, so this is off topic for the list charter, but I have a friend with a Telebit V.34 28.8 modem (part number AP-8810SA-001) which doesn't have a power adapter. Does anyone know (just hoping - not really expecting) what this thing is looking for in terms of power, and if it takes a common transformer? Thanks! J. Maynard Gelinas From red at bears.org Mon Mar 2 17:25:20 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: Ok, I'll bite. I occasionally suffer from thinking I'm more or less interesting than I actually am so if I ramble on at length feel free to ignore me. This is one of those moments I think I'm less interesting... I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. My first taste of computers came when I was four; my dad bought a TRS-80 Model III with 48k, a disk drive, and an Epson MX80 Graftrax printer that he kept for probably a lot longer than he should have. I could make it load SCRIPSIT and LOSTDUTC and demonstrate the more basic BASIC skills and that was about it. I used it so much I wore the silver colouring off the plastic bezel in front of the keyboard. I received my own computer the following Christmas: a 16k CoCo 2 with a cassette player which frustrated me enough that it didn't bug me that my little brother broke it shortly thereafter. I learned to speak LOGO and explored BASIC a little bit further with it, but mostly I played games. I dismantled it when I was in junior high to use the logic board as a 'high tech' decoration for a project some friends and I were working on (Odyssey of the Mind, if anybody's familiar with it). Anyway, these were my primary computers until about 1990 when my father and I went halves on a used XT clone a friend of mine was selling. The TRS-80 got put in a closet since we had a 'real computer' now and was eventually given away. Unfortunately. This computer came with an Avatex 1200 bps modem and was my first introduction to the BBS.. I never looked back. (: A couple years later we went halves again on a used Leading Edge D2 (286) until a few more years passed and I'd decided I'd had enough of sharing and bought my own PC. Up until this point, I'd been known as a 'computer geek' primarily because I had one in my house and I could drive one fairly well. I really didn't know all that much about them, though. Then I started adding on to the PC. I was 15, I think. I started saving money for parts: a SoundBlaster (which I'd always wanted), an FPU, RAM, a 24 bit video card, SCSI.. and eventually a new motherboard and case. I continued saving for parts and 'trading up' using Relaynet mail echoes on a local BBS. I remember downloading Linux .99pl6 at 9600 bps from a local BBS over the course of a week or so---knowing absolutely nothing about it---only to wipe out 80 floppy disks to make the installset, made it wrong, did it again, and then found out my SCSI card was completely unsupported. I was pretty irritated. I remember reading the WD7000 card was supported so I vowed then to get that one one day. I eventually did, when I beta'd OS/2 Warp, because my SCSI card wasn't generic enough to work with Warp, either. It was a UNISYS card, of all things... every 'upgrade' has been an adventure. For this reason I'm thankful for the PC paradigm, as if it'd all been too easy, I never would've learned anything. (: At any rate, I eventually went off to uni with a fairly moby 486. I found an Amiga 500 for sale in a local newsgroup, and since several of my friends had jumped on the Amiga bandwagon in junior high, I picked it up. It was cool enough.. but then my 486 died. I needed a machine to finish out the academic year with, so I dug up a Mac SE/30 from another local newsgroup... I haven't stopped yet. Each machine I've gotten for a reason, and kept it whether it fulfilled the expectations or not (thinking specifically of the Apollo). Currently I have 16 machines in my collection, althouhg not all of them are classics. Mostly I've got machines I used at school or at work or that my friends had or machines related to them somehow... I'm not that active in searching at this point in my life, as I haven't a car, but I have a tolerating (if reluctantly so) roommate so it all works out. Amiga 500, 3000 Apollo DN5500 Apple ][plus Convergent Technologies CP-001/8 Macintosh 128k, Plus, SE/30 NeXTcube, NeXTstation (with Daydream ROM box) SGI Indy R4600 TI-99/4A TRS-80 Model III I also have the requisite several PCs: a Compaq Deskpro 286, my old 486 which is almost ridiculously configured (64 MB RAM and 11 GB of disk), and a half of a dual Pentium 133 which is a very nice box. It helps that it's running NEXTSTEP. This PC and my Indy are the two daily-use boxes. Oh, and I've got a VAX VMS5.3 CD distribution that is begging for a machine to run it on.. I'm slowly documenting my collection and trying to write interesting text for each. I'm not very finished at this point but it's available for viewing as it stands at http://www.lycanthrope.org/~red/behind/tech.html It's been great reading all the replies to this thread... ok r. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 17:28:55 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803022326.SAA24856@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 06:26:54 pm Message-ID: <9803022328.AA17183@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 434 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f3e46cab/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 17:50:56 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <9803022328.AA17183@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:28:55 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803022350.SAA25275@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:28:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Telebit modems > > > OK, so this is off topic for the list charter, but I have a > > friend with a Telebit V.34 28.8 modem (part number AP-8810SA-001) > > which doesn't have a power adapter. Does anyone know (just hoping - > > not really expecting) what this thing is looking for in terms of > > power, and if it takes a common transformer? > > What sort of connecto does it have for the adapter? Is it a coaxial > jack, a DIN, or a weird 3-pin doodad? > > Tim. > Tim, No DIN or weird 3 pin doodad, in fact it looks like I could go out to RS and buy any 'ol wall transformer for it. The connector is the same used in US Robotics modems, most Walkmans, portable CD Players, etc. Basically a hollow cylinder on the jack with conductors on the inside and outside of the cylinder. This plugs into the back of the modem, which has a recepticle for the plug containing a small pin in the center. I'm sure you know what I mean, but I don't know the term for this kind of plug. Anyway, it looks deceptivly simple, but I don't want to go out and buy the wrong transformer only to discover that I've blown the modem. Does it take 12V, 9V, 3V, AC or DC (probably DC)? Oh well. I also wrote Telebit, which was recently bought out, but I'm not expecting an answer from them any time soon. Thanks for the quick responce! --jmg From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 17:51:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 In-Reply-To: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13336574421.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax connectors. There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V AC. ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 18:07:21 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803022350.SAA25275@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 06:50:56 pm Message-ID: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 812 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/4bcdd7ea/attachment.ksh From go at ao.com Mon Mar 2 18:17:40 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <00a401bd45c4$2ad439e0$1cf438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> I've been mostly a lurker on this list, having started only around the end of the year... But this track has been really interesting reading. So here is my story: I'm 45 and mostly act as a programmer, when I'm not forced to do pointy-haired management thingies. My first exposure to computers came in 1967/68 at a summer school during high school. I was attending a summer class series relating mostly to humanities/social sciences (dull boring etc.) but during the 3rd week we had a "technology break." They brought in this guy that was carrying a model 33 tty and a modem and he demonstrated a timesharing system that was in operating (freshly operating, it turns out) at the campus of Oregon State University. This system, called OS-3 (no relation to a later, os) ran on a Control Data 3300. I was entranced. After the talk, a few of us hung around to ask questions. I was the last one left when he decided to leave (about 5 hours later) and was promised a free account on the system later that month! (probably just to make me go away...) Up to that point, I was mostly a generalist geek. Ham radio, biology, math, etc. But the computer somehow resonated where these other fields hadn't. Two years later I enrolled at Oregon State and majored in Math (no CS degree back then.) Took a few CS style courses, but mostly did math. Late my freshman year I ran into another computer "Nebula" which had been built (under an Office of Naval Research contract) by the Math department at OSU. Said computer was in the basement of the math building and was available to any who wanted to play. And what's more, they didn't mind if you hacked it a bit - it was an easily modified machine and we added several instructions to it while I was there. Also wrote a LOT of code - much for class projects - but mostly for fun. Later I got a job in the Systems Programming dept that oversaw the 3300 and OS-3. Sorta bubbled to the top there (be a part time student for 6 years and you just outlive everyone else :-) My main job was overseeing the "front end" computer(s) that managed the multiplexing of 500+ terminals around the campus and the rest of the state of Oregon. These were muxed into the OS-3 system on the 3300. Later I wrote from scratch a new front end system for a newly designed mux put in place in 1976. Also did a lot of development and maintenance on OS-3 itself. First real job after this was for the company I now own. Started working in 1977 and bought it (with a partner) in 1981. We've done a lot of the things small computer companies do: some (early on) custom business applications, process control (in saw and plywood mills,) some security and access control, building automation (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) and other odds and ends. We now do (blech) Win95 and WinNT drivers/gui stuff (because people pay for that) and manufacture hardware and software used in specialized data collection and monitoring applications. For a few years we made oceanographic instrumentation, but spun that off to another company last year. Started collection old stuff back in 1972 (it wasn't old back then!) I won't bore you with the list (I'll make a web page with the stuff and pictures some day.) But my main items are an IMSAI 8080 with a Shugart SA4000 27 mbyte 14 inch drive. (This drive cost more than many enter workstations do today. But by 1978 standards it was BIG.) I once owned a PDP8/E but gave it away to someone who would actually use it. Now I wish I still had it (sob.) Having seen how easily information evaporates, I would add that my main interest in computer preservation (besides owning a few operating toys) is in fixing the documentation in a form readable by later parties. One of my recent efforts has been to get DETAILED information on some of the early relay and vacuum tube computers and build some working, demonstration circuits. It's been tough to track down actual circuit descriptions and diagrams for some of the old beasts. The museums that have them don't want you taking things apart to find out how they work, so I dig through old book stores and comb the web for folks selling/giving away old docs. Libraries help, but much of what I seek has been discarded as "obsolete." Pity. One of my prized books is "Giant Brains" by Edmund Berkeley. I acquired it at a library book sale since it had been "discarded." Written 1949 (when there were fewer processors in existence than many people have in a single house) it describes the computer, its operation and many possible future applications that are astonishingly close to what actually came to pass. It's a fascinating read. Thanks for the venue. Gary. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 18:47:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980303004712.11866.qmail@hotmail.com> I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax connectors. >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V AC. >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 18:54:34 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803030054.TAA26480@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Telebit modems > > Most modems take AC line transformers, so they can easily generate the > positive and negative voltages that real RS-232 interfaces need. If > you take the cover off and find a diode bridge rectifier at the coaxial > jack, you want an AC adapter. Probably 12 VAC or so. > > Most modems list the power requirement on the FCC sticker on the bottom. > Is this missing from yours? > Well, I opened up the modem and you're right about all. The modem did have a diode, as well as a fuse. I plugged in an old US Robotics transformer and it worked... thanks for the help! As for the FCC sticker, yes it was on the bottom but nowhere on the modem was a statement about power requirements - not even inside on the MB. Oh well. --maynard From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 18:57:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap Message-ID: <19980303005712.10721.qmail@hotmail.com> I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap weenie "home computers"? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:16:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 1, 98 07:10:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f8bfd4d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:17:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: <199803021516.AA23364@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 2, 98 10:16:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/51a9c0cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:25:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) In-Reply-To: <199803021710.MAA14989@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 12:10:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1408 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/ad3cbffe/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 2 19:17:01 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Enrico: model I Message-ID: <50937e6.34fb5a0f@aol.com> whatever happened to going private with stuff like this?! this is more off topic than anything else. In a message dated 98-03-02 02:46:52 EST, somebody started flaming: << Enrico: I have many Model 1 computers... as a matter of fact, I sent one to you! So don't think you just made a great 'caught-me' remark. I do have many. I don't, however, have a damn 4k Model 1 without the keypad on the right. That is what you're looking for, isn't it? Oh, I suppose you changed your mind -- again!?! Gees, Enrico, you never stop do you? I am being completely honest with you, what is it that you think I am hiding anyway? Black and white: I have model 1 computers, many of them. I have 0 Model 1 computers that you are looking for!! Figure it out!! Not Black and white: Why you are a complete idiot!?! Leave me alone until I e-mail you and tell you I have a Model 1 computer, circa 1978, with 4k of memory, and no keypad, ok? Damn, Enrico, I was even doing you a favor and looking for one for you.... You really know how to spoil someone's day, CORD >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:38:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty In-Reply-To: <199803021738.AA28877@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 2, 98 12:38:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/be38f126/attachment.ksh From jrice at texoma.net Mon Mar 2 19:24:01 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> Message-ID: <34FB5BB1.2E8D9408@texoma.net> I usually just lurk, but.... I'm 44, I own an industrial automation contracting company and got my start on a TI99/4A (still have it) and shortly afterward bought a Model 100. My first PC was a Tandy 1000 for which I paid the inflated price of $2700.00 with two 360k floppys, 384k ram and the optional DMA chip. When I could afford the $600.00 10meg external hard drive, I thought I was flying. My collection is small at the moment: 3 Model 100's with 32k PDD's and PDD2's, bar code wands, modem cables and cups, printerr cables, DVI, Tandy printers; Tandy 1000SX with 640k, 20m hard card, 286 Express turbo card, digimouse, 232 ports, CM2 monitor; Apple Mac's several from Se, Se/2, P630, IIx with a lot of printers and accessories; 3 TI99/4A's, variuos cartridges and interfaces; Times TS1000; A large collection of PC's from 8088 to Pentium Pro 200's, a LOT of printers and plotters from Tandy PC695 to Calcomp 1043GT "E" size, and a lot of digitizing tablets (I use ACAD everyday). I had quite a few more machines, but my ex-wife won't turn them over in spite of several contempt orders from the judge. At least my new wife doesn't care what I collect as long as she doesn't have to clean around it, besides, she's into them as well. And the computers take up a lot less room than my other collection, machine tools. James From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 19:25:39 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB5C13.1C16319D@ibmhelp.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean > any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some > systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > 32-bit There are a few upgrade mobos around for some of the PS/2 MCAs, but your best bet is a CPU upgrade daughterboard. Generally, I would say to avoid MCA PS/2s unless you want to run them as is. FWIW, the resale for the PS/2 stuff is still pretty good, so you might consider reselling them if the price is right. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion Specializing in support for withdrawn IBM products, and conversion of IBM legacy data and media formats. dwollmann@ibmhelp.com http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:30:45 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <006101bd4644$1e3d5ba0$dfa1fea9@office1> Well, here's my bio: I am a 31-year-old banker in Syosset (Long Island), New York. Many of my waking hours involve lending millions to near-bankrupt companies without a clue. It's not sexy, but it's a job . As expected, I worked at Radio Shack from high school through college (I even got a 5-year service pin) Anyway, I digress. I really began collecting old computers about three years ago. It all started with the VIC-20 that I got when I was in junior high school (my all-time favorite; I learned 6502 machine language on that machine. Snif, snif. Sigh). From there, I added a Fat Mac that I owned in college. Then, a PET 4032 system (a gift from my former junior high school computer teacher), an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS), two Tandy Model 1's (one 4k, one 16k, with expansion chassis; works fine), a complete Model 100 system (with DVI and monitor), and an original IBM PC with expansion chassis. That was it for a long time. Then, I found this group... Well, I've loaded up on an Apple ][+, an Apple /// with a ProFile HD, several more VIC-20's (spares if anyone needs parts), a C64, several other CBM parts, a Compaq SLT/286 and dock (not really a classic, but free, all 25+ lbs of it), an original Atari 2600 in the box, a complete Apple //gs system, a Mac SE/30, and a Northstar Horizon with many random boards (this is my next fix-up project). I also have some software that I've collected (not all originals, though): DOS 1.1 through 6.22, Windoze 1.01, 2.0, 3.0, etc., VisiCalc, Lotus, and others. Then came my "drive and get it" phase, aka, the too big and heavy to ship. I have a Sun 3/50 and shoebox (more on this later), a DEC uVax-I in a BA23 case with several RD52 drives, and a complete PDP-11/34 system. This was the best - a complete system, just as if the guy ordered it 20 years ago with all manuals and enough spares to last a lifetime. I still don't have a complete inventory of the spare parts, but the rack has 2 RK05 drives, the CPU, and an expansion chassis. I just picked-up several RK05 disk packs with the original RT-11 distribution on it. It came with several boxes of documentation, and several binders that clip into a metal holder (like would hold the OED dictionary). My major focus from here on (because my wife has *suggested* that I have enough computers) is fill-in stuff: * Commodore software/hardware (cartridge slot expander, speech synth, IEEE card, games) * Apple game software/hardware (i.e., paddles and joysticks) * Apple Lisa (not really fill-in, but I can always slip one by...) * IMSAI 8080 (this one is pre-authorized by the "computer police") * Copy-II-PC card * PDP stuff for transferring files (maybe a paper tape reader/punch). I'm also in the process of getting an RX02 drive for my system. * Embedded/SBC stuff (like a KIM-1 or SYM-1) * Intel iAPX432 processor set I also am looking for non-classic stuff along the lines of embedded-PC stuff (x86 PC card on an ISA backplane, for example; for experimentation). I also have a passing interest in robotics (I'm specing a Mars rover style autonomous robot), gardening, and golf. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:25:55 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: SB180 (was Demography?) Message-ID: <006001bd4644$1d5b8720$dfa1fea9@office1> Sam: > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently). I think that that is Steve Ciarcia's 64180-based SBC, which ran various forms of CP/M. It was featured in the Sept and Oct 1985 issues of Byte (which I just happen to have; I can fax you the article if you want). I'd love to get one of those...I even saw a message once in comp.os.cpm that one of the co-authors was trying to work a deal with Steve to unearth an old stock of those and offer them for sale. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:29:47 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Demography? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are > us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford > when I was playing with them new. Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer enthusiasts :) > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is that it runs CP/M. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:09:56 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and 60mb tapes. My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install it. Any thoughts?? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Mar 2 19:45:17 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. In-Reply-To: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302204517.008538f0@hiway1.exit109.com> At 08:09 pm 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup >a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and >60mb tapes. > > My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with >NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and >trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or >copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the >CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install >it. I suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the Sun and go from there. I believe that since you have NetBSD on CD (v 1.2.1, I presume from the BSDisc), then the real trick is getting it to load the miniroot or some NFS mounted equivalent. My gut feeling (short of loading NetBSD on the PC) would be to see if you can 'dd' or 'rawrite' the miniroot to tape (I don't think the Sun bootloader will read the disk without a label). Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list Submissions: suns-at-home@net-kitchen.com Requests: suns-at-home-request@net-kitchen.com WWW Archive access: http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah and see if they have an idea. <<>> From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 19:52:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> <34FAB3A3.538706B9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FB625A.86755CF4@rain.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this > time > > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were > quite a > > few made (10s of thousands.) > > 10's of thousands in computers is nothing, you know that. When they get in > the > millions and billions like the PS, XT and AT they become commonplace. What > operating Commonplace is a relative term. With the Lobo Max-80 having a production total of 5000 computers and the Sol-20 production being 10,000, well, I think you see what I mean. > system does the Vector 3 run? Do you have any idea if it was made for a > specific > purpose such as a graphics workstation (in black and white)? I'd like to > know a > little more about it before I spend the time delving into it more or even > trying to > locate a new home for it (heavy beast). It runs CP/M and was intended as a business machine. Sorry, but I don't recall much more than that off the top of my head. They are fairly easy to work on and a friend of mine used his (now mine!) to do quite a bit of commercial programming. > The external case is probably the same for ones with or without a hard > disk but with > added MFM type cabling. If you have the controller card and cabling > already then I'm > sure you could easily add a 506 interface drive. > > I appreciate any info you can provide and if you have multiple copies of > the manuals > and may want to part with one, let me know. I do have multiple copies of some manuals, but except for the Vector 4, I am not sure of the others. When I get a chance to dig back to where they are stored, I'll take a look and see what I can find. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 19:56:54 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <006101bd4644$1e3d5ba0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <34FB6366.81A71180@ibmhelp.com> Richard A. Cini wrote: > > an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS) > I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion Specializing in support for withdrawn IBM products, and conversion of IBM legacy data and media formats. dwollmann@ibmhelp.com http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 2 15:07:22 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803030054.TAA26480@mail.iac.net> References: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803030159.UAA09702@mail.cgocable.net> > Well, I opened up the modem and you're right about all. The > modem did have a diode, as well as a fuse. I plugged in an old US > Robotics transformer and it worked... thanks for the help! As for the > FCC sticker, yes it was on the bottom but nowhere on the modem was a > statement about power requirements - not even inside on the MB. Oh > well. > > --maynard > Should use 9vac between 500mA to 800mA and you will in business. I tried one 275mA transformer, USR 14.4kps ext. modem worked but would not dial or connect up so I went to RS and got a single 9Vac 800mA wall wart and it's kosher afterwards. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From wpe at interserv.com Mon Mar 2 20:19:39 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Hello References: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> Message-ID: <34FB68B9.4146900F@interserv.com> I like the message. Hopefully it'll do some good! Will Sam Ismail wrote: > To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm > > I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group > of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve > some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you > may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines > you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value > you may be extracting from their circuits. > > I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find > the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not > compelling. > > Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts > of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of > would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer > Festival web page: > > http://www.siconic.com/vcf > > Sincerely, > > Sam Ismail > Vintage Technology Cooperative > http://www.siconic.com/vcf From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 20:24:16 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: Message-ID: <34FB69D0.ED6C193B@rain.org> Don Maslin wrote: > Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi > drives? Yes to both questions. I believe Micropolis drives were used but I don't know off hand what other drives were used in the computers. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 2 20:11:53 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980302164551.2ef77a8c@intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: > Can you tell me more about the GE 635s? I got a collection of old >programming manuals and they state that all the programs in them were >tested on a GE 635 and I was wondering what one is. IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an ancestor of the Mainframes that Honeywell made (Honeywell dropped the 'E' from the OS name and it became GCOS). GECOS is probably best remembered for the 'GECOS' field in the UNIX password file. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 2 20:45:25 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> <34FB5BB1.2E8D9408@texoma.net> Message-ID: <34FB6EC5.7AD2E5AC@crl.com> Okay, well I just signed up to this list today, and I see people are telling about themselves and their collections. Cool. I'm 37 and do network consulting (Netware, NT, Linux, IPX/SPX, TCP/IP, blah blah blah). Besides the Pentium 120 I'm typing on, and a half dozen assorted other PC clones, here are the machines in my collection: Apple ----- Apple IIe Apple III (loose system board, ps, and disk drive--no case!) Apple Mac Plus Apple Mac SE Atari ----- (wow, I can hardly leave my house without one of these machines falling out of the sky and smacking me on the head--I own two or more of each model listed here except the 130XE and Mega STe) Atari 400 (busted my cherry on this one) Atari 800 Atari 1200XL Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 65XE Atari 130XE Atari 520ST Atari 1040ST Atari Mega STe Coleco ------ Adam Computer module for Colecovision (biggest kludge in computing history?) Commodore --------- CBM PET 4032 (mmmm. this one is SEXY) VIC-20 C64 SX-64 (lovely) C128 Amiga 500 Compaq ------ Portable (the original Compaq XT clone? Model: COMPAQ) Interact Electronics -------------------- The Interact Home Computer (strange 8080a machine with RF out, chiclet keyboard, and integrated cassette. (C) 1979) Lawrence Livermore Laboratories ------------------------------- MST-80b (8080a machine nicely mounted in a briefcase! (C) 1976) Mattel ------ Intellivision ECS computer module (I need the keyboard) Aquarius Memorex ------- Custom Wire-Wrapped 6800-based System in Generic S-100 Backplane Box (I think from the panel scribbling, this was used to read/write digital audio tape--one switch at a time ;) maybe historical? maybe not.) Sony ---- SMC-70 (no video cable--I think this works, but I need the pinout on the db25 video jack!) Tandy ----- Color Computer 2 Color Computer 3 Texas Instruments ----------------- TI-99/4A Timex-Sinclair -------------- TS 1000 Most of the above stuff either works well, or is in need of minor work (usually finding parts and/or data books!) that I expect to complete soon, with a little luck. I'm pretty aggressively out there accumulating stuff at flea markets and surplus stores these days. I also own most every video game console ever made (I'm not exaggerating, much), over 1,000 game and app cartridges, at least a hundred calculators, and 15 coin-op arcade machines. I have a disease. When I'm not tinkering with all that stuff, I program the Atari 2600. Oh, and If anyone has an RCA Cosmac ELF available, drop me a line. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:38:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap In-Reply-To: <19980303005712.10721.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 2, 98 04:57:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/75e738c0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:44:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30236@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 10:32:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/087bd13a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:25:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards In-Reply-To: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 2, 98 03:10:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/48cf0bc1/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Mon Mar 2 20:48:05 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? References: <9803020602.AA22027@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <34FB6F62.C71F8D46@interserv.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this > > thing was in, > > was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the > > top left is > > a centronix female connector. > > How many conductors? 36, if I counted corectly.... > > > > About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears > > to be a RCA > > type phono jack. > > Is there an edge connector, too? Nope.... On the extreme right, is some kind of 4 pin connector (power?) labeledCN1., next to it (left) is a smaller 7 pin connector, labeled CN10, Just to the left of that, is a 6 pin connector. labeled CN9. At the extreme left. is some type of 34 pin (again, if I counted right) connector (maybe 1/8" thick X 1 3/4" wide), then (l to r) some surface mount chips, labelled as follows. first one is TEC EC-A541 JAPAN 9151 E49 Next chip labelled TOSHIBA TMP90C04 1F 92094CZ Followed by two more, smaller surface mounts, both labelled JAPAN 9142 65256BLFP-121 00059990 > > > > two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a > > label on it, that > > reads as follows: > > > > 239X .STD > > V0.86 > > 92-2-27 23A7 > > Inscribed directly on the chip is: > > > > -150DC > > 1506NOT > > (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD > > Is there a quartz window under the sticker? This sounds like this > is an EPROM containing some sort of firmware. Yup! There's a window! > > > What other chips are on the board? Are they DIP's or surface mount or ??? > > Tim. Chip (with window) is DIP, others described above. surface mount...... Again, all help greatly appreciated! Will From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 18:57:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803022039.UAA12437@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 08:39:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/274a9547/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:17:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 10:32:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/71bb1de0/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 21:01:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original > > apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that? > > There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent make > some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one - yet! Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? -- Doug From scottk5 at ibm.net Mon Mar 2 21:24:17 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB77E1.47C1@ibm.net> Max Eskin wrote: Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > 32-bit Hi Max! Try: http://www.neointeractive.com They are selling Reply upgrades for PS2's....I put one in a little Model 25 and now it's a zippy little 486dx2/80...hope this helps. Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 2 20:50:07 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <01bd464f$138cd7c0$LocalHost@hotze> That's one of the things with PC's... they're all software-standard, but hardware versatile. For 486's, there's the Pentium Overdrives that some boards were equipped with (but Intel cut off the overdrives early), then there's also about 50 differnet chips that actually plug into the ZIF Socket, the fastest being the Evergreen one, which is based on a AMD K5 133, and has equivelent performance to that of a Pentium 102MHz. For the Zeineth PCs that the government bought in the 80's, the CPU was on a daughterboard, so that you could upgrade that to a 386, but God help you try to find one of those. -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 2:13 AM Subject: 486 upgrade boards >Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean >any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some >systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 >286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something >32-bit > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 23:53:07 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. In-Reply-To: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> (rcini@email.msn.com) Message-ID: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:09:56 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. > > I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup > a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and > 60mb tapes. > > My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with > NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and > trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or > copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the > CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install > it. > Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work (the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes). The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby? J. Maynard Gelinas From go at ao.com Tue Mar 3 00:43:48 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> References: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> Apologies to the group for bringing up something that isn't a classic (yet) but you should check out the disk drive at: http://www.allelec.com They are selling off a bunch of HP "Kittyhawk" drives. At present they only have one size left (the 20 mbyte) model. Although this drive isn't 10+ years old, (like all things) it will be eventually and by then it may be too late to get one. The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) Just for formalities: I have no connection with this site or company except as an occasional (satisfied) customer. Check it out. Gary From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Mar 3 01:37:38 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: VAX and DECstation Ultrix? Message-ID: <199803030737.XAA08348@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/68c466c8/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 3 01:39:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FB69D0.ED6C193B@rain.org> Message-ID: <34FBB3CA.1FC00375@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > > Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi > > drives? > > Yes to both questions. I believe Micropolis drives were used but I don't > know off hand what other drives were used in the computers. This one, the Vector 3, has a Seagate FH 5.25" Seagate ST-506 5 mb hard drive and a Tandon FH 5.25" 720k floppy in the external case. Thanks for the info in the other message as well Marv. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 3 02:03:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <34FBB963.6627F5B2@bbtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) > Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the > academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full > time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as you and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they want janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the time and resources. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 02:02:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <005c01bd467a$ab56f880$60f438cb@nostromo> Yeah; I'm currently studying with two kids (3 and 1). Believe me... it will be much much easier now rather than when you have other commitments. Do it sooner rather than later :) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Demography? >R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > >> I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) >> Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the >> academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full >> time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. > >With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as you >and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they want >janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the >kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the >time and resources. From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Tue Mar 3 02:35:38 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <01bd462b$e674e340$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980303003538.006a1f38@vader.kootenay.net> My Name is Chris Halarewich And I am 27 years old and live in Castlegar British Columbia Canada I first got a computer in 1985 it was a COLECO ADAM witch i used for about 5 years but my first interaction with a computer was in 1979-80 at secondary school when i was 9 years old. We were one of the first pilot school districts to get computers Apple ][ and ][+ im BC my next computer wich i got after the adam was in the end of 1996 when i got a AST Advantage Adventure 575plus. mainly collect older vic 20's comodor 64 and old video games and systems like atari 2600 intevevision colecovision mainly at thrift stores like salvation army because i like seeing what's inside and what makes then tick..If i get anything interesting i will post it here first. Chris:) From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 02:59:17 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00db01bd4682$a6656e80$60f438cb@nostromo> >>I have a canon SX320!! >You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't >I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in >NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now. Yes, I checked the number this morning. My Canon SX320 was inadvertently left out of the list, along with... Sinclair ZX-81 (I've just ordered three unbuilt kits of these - still available NEW on the web, would you believe!!) Sinclair ZX-80 Sinclair Spectrum Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 (a whacking great 3581 bytes of program memory :) Canon 1614P (a punched card reading programmable desktop) A couple of Sorcerers Atari 800 Compucolor II Datanumerics DL8A ... I've forgotten what else I've forgotten. >Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other >than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line, >and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each >character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a >tape storage or cartridges or something for programs? I have not switched this machine on, actually. It is very dusty and sitting in my office at work. I will be happy to take a pic and place on a website should anyone be interested. It had a strange sort of tape storage - sort of like a little toaster oven at the top right of the machine. Unfortunately, due to multiple moves, I no longer have the tapes for this unit :( Cheers A From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Tue Mar 3 04:53:28 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <01bd4692$99720d40$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips have the same mark. Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP. It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085 Anyone have any idea what this is? Thanks Hans -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/699afcb9/attachment.html From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 06:23:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted: Exidy Sorcerer technical Information Message-ID: <018201bd469f$276f6c80$60f438cb@nostromo> Would anybody with SOrcerer technical information, including user group newsletters and just about any Sorcerer documentation please contact me directly? I'm trying to restore a pretty neato homebrew setup here and sure could use some tech specs. Includes a 5M hard drive, twin Micropolis drives and about 100+ disks of software, custom BIOS mods for HD and FD access.... the works. Cheers A From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 06:31:14 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888957245@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully > informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway > >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax > connectors. > >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V > AC. Voltages like 204V and 208V mean it probably wants 3-phase. These are the phase-to-phase voltages on three phase systems where the phase to earth voltage is 117V and 120V respectively. It may only require two of the three phases, in which case you might be able to convert... The suggestion of using PC power supplies or similar is a good one but you may need something a bit more powerful. You need to know how much current it draws on each supply rail. I seem to recall that someone on this list has a working S/34. Could this person measure the current under various conditions? NB 5V rail current could be 100A or more, so don't just stick a multimeter in series with it! Use a proper shunt and millivoltmeter. A while back, I mentioned that I have some system/34 pocket references available to send to anyone with a s/34 who needs them. No-one has yet replied that I've seen. Any takers? The OS pocket reference is very thick (nearly 100 pages IIRC). Philip. PS Comparing the System/34 and the 8086 is not strictly fair - the 8086 appeared in laboratory tests in 1979 IIRC, while the S/34 was already on sale in 1977 I think. Things did shrink _very_ fast at that period! Also the S/34 has disks, - including my favourite floppy drive! - around 256K of memory, and other I/O that would have required several PC style boxes full of support chips, drives etc. for the 8086 in the late '70s. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 07:42:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> References: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303074249.2dc7410a@intellistar.net> Gary, Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a shame that HP quit building them. Joe At 10:43 PM 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >Apologies to the group for bringing up something that isn't >a classic (yet) but you should check out the disk drive >at: > > http://www.allelec.com > >They are selling off a bunch of HP "Kittyhawk" drives. At present >they only have one size left (the 20 mbyte) model. Although this >drive isn't 10+ years old, (like all things) it will be eventually >and by then it may be too late to get one. > >The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) >pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) >and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest >hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense >than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. > >I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" >computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) > >Just for formalities: I have no connection with this site or company >except as an occasional (satisfied) customer. > >Check it out. > >Gary > > > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 07:07:44 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888959585@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Joe on Kittyhawk drives: > Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a > shame that HP quit building them. Gary pointed us at a web site: > http://www.allelec.com according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive, but... Philip. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 07:36:20 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <199803031336.AA15106@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13336728234.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [S/34 3-Phase?] Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it... Is there some way around that? ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 08:04:18 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd46ad$42507ea0$LocalHost@hotze> Some of the drives that I've seen actually have the connectors extending out, as if they're on a seperate piece of equipment alltogether. Now, anyone know about what type of power connector (small, like on a 1.44MB floppy, large, like on normal HDDs, or non-standard?) Also, is there any way to make a 44-pin connector into a 40-pin connector (for a standard dekstop?) Also, I've gotten into the whole mini-PC idea. So, I want to build one. The hard drive'll probably end up being a Kittyhawk, I'm currently thinking an x86 CPU (as little power and size as possible. I know that the AMD Elan 400 COULD work but I haven't seen them resold, and I'd need drivers for the built in stuff, etc.) So, if anyone has any info on this, I'd love for them to contact me personally. (If they could put "Building a Mini-PC" or something in the subject, so I could know that it wasn't a ClassicCmp post...) TIA, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:17 PM Subject: Re[2]: A possible (future) classic. >Joe on Kittyhawk drives: > >> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a >> shame that HP quit building them. > >Gary pointed us at a web site: > >> http://www.allelec.com > >according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE >drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive, >but... > >Philip. > From wheagy at erols.com Tue Mar 3 10:09:35 1998 From: wheagy at erols.com (Winfield Heagy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Hi, Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few descriptions on the Web, but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an opportunity to get one but don't know much about them. Thanks...Win wheagy@erols.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 3 10:30:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's In-Reply-To: <01bd46ad$42507ea0$LocalHost@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 3, 98 05:04:18 pm Message-ID: <9803031630.AA28810@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1531 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/2d4d4ce1/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 10:47:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Gary Oliver wrote: > The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) > pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) > and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest > hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense > than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other than the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about the size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them. And then there was the Maxtor type-II PCMCIA hard disk. That's right, it was rotating media enclosed in a type-II card (not the type-III or type-IV cards most PCMCIA hard disks use). I think they killed this drive after making a few samples, but I saw it at COMDEX one year and was very impressed. -- Doug From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 10:41:15 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888972365@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > [S/34 3-Phase?] > Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller > version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my > PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but You can do three phase on only three wires - most long distance power lines are done that way - but that would be unearthed, and therefore not recommended. If it is a 190/208V version rather than a 220/240V version it is probably expecting two of the three phases plus ground. > nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it... > Is there some way around that? Dunno. Passwords are only 4 letters IIRC so shouldn't be that difficult to crack if you've got a terminal emulator card in a PC. I'm afraid a quick glance through the pocket reference hasn't revealed anything useful :-( Philip. From kevan at heydon.org Tue Mar 3 10:49:14 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Sun 2/120 (clone) available in the UK Message-ID: <199803031649.QAA18737@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard, mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards. It is big and heavy, so collection from Cambridge UK is preferred but I would consider delivering to a location not that far from me. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From jmg at iac.net Tue Mar 3 11:28:25 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] Message-ID: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand loyalty.... --jmg ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100 From: Christoph Meyer To: maynard@jmg.com Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem Sorry, we don't support Telebit equipment any longer. cerm - -- TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de) Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de) Geiststr. 68 48151 Muenster Germany Tel: +251/97 256 70 Fax: +251/97 256 79 ------- End of forwarded message ------- Damn! From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 11:50:52 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other than > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about the > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them. I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable shorter in length and taller. SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16" Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8" PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess. (measurements done with a crude tape measure.) -- Doug From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Mar 3 11:55:49 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401176FCD@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> PCMCIA drives are 2"W x 3 1/4"L x 3/8"H. Note that the SyQuest media size doesn't really count because the rest of the drive was in the PCMCIA card (heads, motor, electronics). I have a DTR-1 also, BTW... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:51 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: A possible (future) classic. > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other > than > > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. > > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about > the > > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't > > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of > them. > > I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by > side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable > shorter in length and taller. > > SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16" > Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8" > PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess. > > (measurements done with a crude tape measure.) > > -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 12:49:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803031849.AA10280@world.std.com> The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other tha Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303135540.007f6240@netpath.net> At 01:49 PM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a >IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use >PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as >10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I >really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real >cheap. SurplusDirect (www.surplusdirect.com) had some 40mb PCMCIA hard drives on sale a while back. Brand new units, priced around $20-$40, can't recall exact price. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 13:05:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803031849.AA10280@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a > IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use > PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as > 10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I > really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real > cheap. 3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also available. And the Kittyhawk is a tiny drive mounted sizeways on the circuit board, so you get a standard 2.5"-style IDE connector (I think) in a very short package. Are you looking for drives that are still produced in quantity? If not, the Kittyhawk 20MB drive would be a good one to get (at the website mentioned previously). -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 13:26:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803031926.AA15378@world.std.com> <3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and some > of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a > company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the > DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash > harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for > external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard > all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's (new?) credit-card computer, see: http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ -- Doug From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 3 15:16:06 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] In-Reply-To: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 3, 98 12:28:25 pm Message-ID: <9803032116.AA18663@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 781 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/0b97c742/attachment.ksh From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 3 15:22:16 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any information. Thanks- Marty Mintzell From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Mar 3 15:36:53 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > information. > > Thanks- > > Marty Mintzell > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 12:18:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU In-Reply-To: <01bd4692$99720d40$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Mar 3, 98 08:53:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/015a85d5/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Mar 3 15:38:30 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD54011773C6@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 > > One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but > have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what > disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? > > George Rachor > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > > information. > > > > Thanks- > > > > Marty Mintzell > > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Mar 3 15:56:11 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD54011773C6@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Greetings Kai, Thanks for the info. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for > the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller > board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive. > > Kai > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 > > > > One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but > > have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what > > disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? > > > > George Rachor > > > > ========================================================= > > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > > > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > > > information. > > > > > > Thanks- > > > > > > Marty Mintzell > > > > > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 16:27:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803032227.AA21487@world.std.com> < Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor < Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of < business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've < been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were < actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access < time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any < information. crock! PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were very late in the program when they were nearly gone. I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded. Allison From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Tue Mar 3 16:35:27 1998 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fc801b.3927473@mail.tgis.co.uk> Well lets have a go , I feel like an OAP on this list , I'm 50 most are in there 20's and 30's left school at 14 started work in a local garage had a misspent youth Stock car Racing them Circuit Racing with some success . Started my own business 20 years ago repairing car engines still doing the same thing to this day . we Specialize in Classic and Vintage car engines . In 1981 It all started with a ZX81, I then Got into Ham Radio ( G4VLL ) and started going to Radio Rally's ,and seeing Computers for sale at low prices the temptation was to much so 1 hear and 1 there and it soon got up to about 200 , Things have slowed down off late but that's a good thing as room is getting tight . I also collect Camera's Radio's and Gramophones , So roll on when the kids leave home I will Have 3 spare rooms to get all this stuff out and play with it . All the best Chris Denham From go at ao.com Tue Mar 3 16:57:19 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803032227.AA21673@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803032257.OAA14108@office.ao.com> At 05:27 PM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor >< Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of >< business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've >>> snip > >crock! > >PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and >over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were >very late in the program when they were nearly gone. > >I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded. > >Allison > I would tend to agree. My company (for a couple years) sold a few Sol-20 systems into a turnkey business application (before Helios.) We used two Persci drives and a home-brew disk controller (hey, it was early and we didn't like what was on the market.) The OS was home-grown, as necessary for the application. The Persci's performed very well, thank you. Did need the occasional (about every 6 months) alignment, but it was a quick 10 minute job once you got the hang of it. The performance of the drives more than made up for this periodic hassle. Only problem I had was those &$^%# light bulbs in the track sensor. As they aged (and near their end of life) the drives got to be real picky about seeking long distances. Was really glad when they went to the LED illumination. Unfortunately that was AFTER our product was dead. Still have a couple of the (working) drives at home. At least they worked last time I powered up a couple of years ago. :-) Gary From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:09:58 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap Message-ID: <199803032309.XAA09859@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> max eskin... :I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it :meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, :and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics :stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap :weenie "home computers"? dunno about first - but in vector graphics, you have a crt under direct control of the computer, and you tell it to go to a point, switch the beam on, go to another point, maybe switch the beam off, etc. etc. very high resolution, but refresh speed is inversely proportional to the number of lines on the display. in bitmapped graphics, you use a conventional rasterised display (the horizontal lines) and a map of bits which correspond to each line of the display and say whether the beam is on or off at that point. unless you count williams tubes, vector graphics came first, because you could use any old oscilloscope and memory was precious. now memory is cheap enough to make bitmaps viable in even the smallest computers, and monitors are readily available. the price paid is blocky lines. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:04 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09881@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> tony duell: :Another thing worth grabbing are old data books. There are standard :chips that are used in old computers - things like the 8271 disk :controller, the AM2900 bit-slice chips, 4004's and 4040's, etc that :don't appear in recent data books. A data sheet will help you to :determine if a chip has failed, and how to make a replacement if it :has. I'm trying to obtain all that I can. before we were seriously interested in this stuff - or rather, since we were designing 68000-based computers at the age of 12, between interests - we had a whole stack of data sheets donated by a teacher's boyfriend who worked for the uk distributors of sage before they became stride. (what happened to them, btw?) it's a damned shame that when we were about 16 we threw the whole lot out to regain some space in our bedroom. if only we knew then... :< we'd give anything to have them back. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:09 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09890@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> zane healy on ge635... :IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating :System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an they ran gecos. the ge645 would support multics, but the 635 didn't have the paging hardware. the multics faqs make great reading, btw. http://www.best.com/thvv/ (from memory, might be wrong, might be ~thvv) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:21 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09954@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :As Joe said, HP classed a lot of things as 'calculators' to get :round daft export rules... :IIRC, officially the HP71B is a computer (QWERTY keyboard, Basic), :but the HP48 is a calculator (alphabetical keyboard, RPL). They use :virtually the same processor (Saturn), although the HP48 has a few :more machine instructions. cx ( <- hello, from firstborn) it's possible that marketing could have something to do with that too. we'd rather, and we suspect most engineers would rather, use the hp48 - but since rpl fits in well with hp's use of rpn in its calculator range, it probably fit better into the calculator family, and would have been more targeted at the engineers who cut their teeth on its predecessors. :> (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack :>between meetings? ;> ) :You mean _during_ meetings, surely... well, we meant between design meetings, when one would assume they'd all be focused on designing the next piece of kit they could hack during meetings with the pointy-haired bosses... ;> (now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. we've heard about hp.) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:33 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> tony duell: :>have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in :>britain will gravitate to chez duell... :I wish.... There are still machines I am looking for - PDP's other :than the 8 or the 11, a straight-8, more P800 series stuff, etc, :etc,etc. Oh, and somewhere to put them :-) well, the schematics for the pdp6 are available, so at a pinch you could always rebuild one. :> :> on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as :>suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to :>about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to :>mention making sure the :Not that hard. You design it as a synthesiser, of course. Probably :not that much worse (and similar in design) to the multi-speed :motor controller. probably. in fact, it might even be easier, because you don't have to worry about controlling anything physical. on the other hand, since you'd need a speed regulator in the disk drive anyway (and iwrc they tend to be plls) you might as well give that a range of frequencies to chew on and keep the data transfer stuff simple. there are arguments either way - about the only thing we would say, though, is that software is cheaper than hardware in scrap terms, and whereas commodore was already huge, woz was on a leguminous budget. :> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in :>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, :>certainly in later :Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to :doing everything in software, alas... ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare minimum of hardware. :There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent :make some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one - :yet! yes, we believe so. there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too, were there not - eg. sun 386s...? but then it's a lot easier to make a non-compatible 386, given its somewhat multiplicitous architecture. just ignore real mode in the design of the hardware and you're away... protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it was a missed opportunity. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:39 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10028@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> doug: :Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and :others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one, more to the point? :> but we meant things that were more like the sirius 1 in conception - desktop machines, but not stuck with the cruddy pc architecture. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:44 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10051@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-02 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" :computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) off-topic, but... the computer we would really love to use has a main box that's the size of 2 3.5" floppy drives one atop the other, and standing on that is a little 6" mono crt with a resolution of 384x256. the keyboard is about the size of the keyboard on the cambridge z88. the processor is a hitachi 6309 running in native mode, and the software is forth. and you have to hold the thing when you put a disk in. needless to say, there's no hard drive, but the floppy can fit 1800 screens on it, so that's no problem. of course, it was never made... but we'd love to see it. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 17:32:32 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10028@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and > :others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? > > oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one, > more to the point? :> I searched the net and didn't find a single one for sale. And then I decided I wanted flashing lights on my supercomputer, so I searched for bargains on a Thinking Machines CM-1 or CM-2, but couldn't find any :-( If you merely want to program a hypercube, I remember that there was a simulator available and it ran on Xenix (which I think was also running on a non-PC 286 desktop box from Intel at the time). Given the number of cast-away machines in the world, I've been thinking about revitalizing the original Cosmic Cube code from CalTech and building the world's cheapest supercomputer using the old boxen. Unfortunately, I think if we combined all of our collections, we might be able to scrape together a few 100 MIPS, and we'd have a little communication bandwidth problem.... -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 18:42:31 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> Win, They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. They use a special monitor and video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher resolution than standard CGA. Joe At 11:09 AM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few >descriptions on the Web, >but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an >opportunity to get one >but don't know much about them. > >Thanks...Win > >wheagy@erols.com > > > From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 18:31:42 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303163142.00f8fa10@pop.batnet.com> At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >tony duell: >there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too, >were there not - eg. sun 386s...? It was called a 386i, and they're not hard to find. I think I have one :-) >protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it >was a missed opportunity. Not by Novell. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 18:28:56 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA09954@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303162856.00f8c930@pop.batnet.com> At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired >bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair >that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and don't know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's carpet because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in the backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:18:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 3, 98 04:22:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1060 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/fac95d7c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:41:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 3, 98 11:10:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/5b96e2d7/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:32:01 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datamaster ROMs (was Demography?) Message-ID: <00e201bd470a$ba7ad8a0$f823fea9@office1> On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:56:54 +0000, David Wollmann wrote: >>I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s >>from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the >>electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the >>numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see >>if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks. It is the "09" ROS. Here's the diagram that I got from Philip Belben: ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:26:08 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <00e101bd470a$b94517c0$f823fea9@office1> On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:45:17 -0500, John Ruschmeyer wrote: >>suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were >>running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the >>Sun and go from there. I think what I'll probably too is trash the HD on an "experimental" 486 that I have and install either NetBSD or SCO OpenServer. From there, I should be able to create a boot tape and an install tape, and then start the install from the 3/50 >>Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list Thanks for the SAH list. I already belong. No specific ideas from anyone there yet. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:35:33 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <00e301bd470a$bb8766a0$f823fea9@office1> On Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:53:07 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas" wrote: >>Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via >>bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's >>here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work >>(the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes). >>The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're >>going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you >>have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby? I have a small Windows LAN at home, but no Unix boxes setup. I guess that this weekend I'll be setting one up... Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 3 18:47:42 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303164742.032eecf8@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: > They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. Pretty much true... > They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted below) is a prime example. The '6300 was Olivetti's (OEM'd by AT&T) take on a 'better' PC. It failed. >Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their drives from. >They use a special monitor and >video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >resolution than standard CGA. (see note above) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 20:16:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <19980304021627.29106.qmail@hotmail.com> Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a 68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized) keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it. > >At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >>(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired >>bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair >>that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. > >Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers >that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and don't >know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's carpet >because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in the >backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 20:23:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <19980304022331.3162.qmail@hotmail.com> >I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 >was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >below) is a prime example. Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into one of those? >>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. > >The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of >the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their >drives from. > I will say that my only experience w/a 6300 was one that got to me because of a dead hard drive. I ended up gutting and trashing it. I hold old microchips in the fan housing. This was also my only experience with a dead hard drive. Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC clone? P.S. In OOP, can an object kill another object to inherit it? >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 3 20:31:15 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> Marty wrote: > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor Technology both spoke. The production numbers were 10,000 with approximately the first 5,000 being produced as kits, and the last 5,000 produced as assembled units. I don't recall the date they went out of business (1981???) but it will be on the tape. From my recollection of the talk, the reason they went out of business was more along the lines of bad business decisions rather than hardware problems. Interesting sidelight, they had the original prototype at the talk and they tried to fire it up (it didn't) for the first time in some 25 years or so. From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 20:39:16 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd4716$b9a828e0$LocalHost@hotze> I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself... ><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is >I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok. 2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe (http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed on their website, you'd have to ask them... And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40 MB versions,with 80MB coming soon... >The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design). Same here. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 20:39:32 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's Message-ID: <01bd4716$c3501560$LocalHost@hotze> OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a small one? -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's >On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and some >> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a >> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the >> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash >> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for >> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard >> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) > >Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there >are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC >with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM >PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's >(new?) credit-card computer, see: > http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html > >To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for >their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ > >-- Doug > > From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 20:44:23 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303184423.00faeb00@pop.batnet.com> At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote: >Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where >Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor >Technology Bob Marsh. >I don't recall the date they went out of >business (1981???) May 14, 1979. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 20:41:20 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <19980304021627.29106.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303184120.00e52870@pop.batnet.com> At 18:16 3/3/98 PST, Max wrote: >Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a >68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized) >keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it. That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, a TI-92 is a 10 MHz 68K; they can both graph like bandits and are adequate game machines. I've always called them computers and, though my stand-straight-and-salute loyalty is to HP, I have harbored impure thoughts about a 92; just never quite parted with the $160 for one. (Now, if I could hook a Kittyhawk to a 92....) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 22:28:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980303164742.032eecf8@agora.rdrop.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> At 04:47 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: >> They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >>several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >>instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software >there. > >Pretty much true... > >> They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. > >I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 >was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >below) is a prime example. You're might be right about the video if you had a program that wrote directly to the video memory since the AT&T did have a higher resolution. However they are compatable at the DOS level. One friend of mine still has two of these that he bought in 1986 (?) and he's has never found anything wouldn't run on them. He's not the kind to collect every program that he sees so that may not be a difficult test. > >The '6300 was Olivetti's (OEM'd by AT&T) take on a 'better' PC. It failed. > Not necessarily. AT&T's marketing is what failed. That's what happened to the 7300, 3B1 and the 3B2s as well. >>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. > >The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of >the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their >drives from. Well, I'll put it this way. Four of my friends bought these machines new and none of the hard drives lasted a year. One lasted less than two days. To me, that's unreliable. They all replaced the built-in hard drives with hard cards and all lived happily ever after. > >>They use a special monitor and >>video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >>color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >>the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >>resolution than standard CGA. > >(see note above) ??????? Joe From lfb107 at psu.edu Tue Mar 3 21:38:56 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> At 06:23 PM 3/3/98 PST, Max Eskin wrote: >>I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the >'6300 >>was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >>below) is a prime example. >Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into >one of those? Yup, just set switches 5 and 6 to on dipswitch 1 to disable the video controller. >Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC >clone? I think it was just meant to be an enhanced PC clone. I have to admit tho, the 6300 case design is still one of my favorites (looks real purdy sittin' next to a 3B2) and not a bad overall machine for it's age. Les PS If anyone else needs any dipswitch settings, etc. I have the tech manuals. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Mar 3 22:25:53 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:28:16 References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > However they are compatable at the DOS level. Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and 150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running across both, as well as the IBM PC. -Frank McConnell From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Mar 3 22:52:16 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303225216.006cd244@pop3.concentric.net> I see the color monitors here (Twin Cities) alot from 1 to 30 dollars. John At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: >Win, > > They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. > > They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. Hard drives were >optional in them and not very reliable IMO. They use a special monitor and >video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >resolution than standard CGA. > > Joe > >At 11:09 AM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few >>descriptions on the Web, >>but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an >>opportunity to get one >>but don't know much about them. >> >>Thanks...Win >> >>wheagy@erols.com >> >> >> > > > From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 3 23:25:57 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <34FCE5E5.25C306AB@crl.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > However they are compatable at the DOS level. > > Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and > 150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct > hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running > across both, as well as the IBM PC. Yeah, the thing is that almost no software for the IBM PC world avoids that. Certainly nothing I ever wrote ;) Int 8, 9, 10h, 13h, 14h, 16h are all pretty much automatic, along with direct video access and timer and interrupt port accesses. Maybe the 6300 can survive all that though... Just because it had higher resolution capability doesn't mean standard modes won't be mapped the same as an IBM. I wouldn't know. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 3 23:22:12 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <34FCE504.AED1ED16@rain.org> Winfield Heagy wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few > descriptions on the Web, but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to For what it is worth, I met a guy at the TRW swap meet who has about 6 or so of the AT&T 6300. He mentioned a price of about $40 for a system and I believe besides the box, monitor, and keyboard, it also included software and manuals. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll pass your name along to him when I see him at the end of the month. I could post his name, but I only know him my his location :). From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 00:32:31 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> It arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") Cheers A Datanumerics DL8A web page... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 4 00:56:29 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > It arrived 10 minutes ago. > I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. > Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. > Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 00:59:20 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <003901bd473b$0f227180$31f438cb@nostromo> Altair in sheep's clothing? Not a chance! Wait till you see inside! The motherboard is organised in ROWS of chips, something like A to F And... it's stationed at the top (ie: roof) of the machine. Amazing amazing. Its an 8080A by the way. A -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, >I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans >Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): > http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm > >Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? > >-- Doug > > From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 01:10:44 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <34FCFE74.338B6DC5@crl.com> Andrew Davie wrote: > > It arrived 10 minutes ago. > I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. > Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. > Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status lights--I've got a fetish ;) I had a pretty decent day myself. After striking out at a weekday flea market, I stopped by this surplus store and inside a box of PC and Mac boards I stumbled over a Synertek SYM-1 board :O ["Five bucks for this old thing? This ain't a PC dude, I'm not gonna be surfin' the net with it--look at the date on this thing: 1978! Hmm. Four bucks? Oh, all right..."] It looks ready to go I guess, with a 4K PROM and 1K of RAM and everything more or less new looking. I'll try and pinout the power connector and see what it can do (well, it's 6502, so I'm sure it will ROCK!!!) Lots of interesting buttons on the little membrane keypad, and a whopping 6-digit 7-seg display ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From archive at navix.net Wed Mar 4 03:07:17 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? Message-ID: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Greets: Yep, this last weekend I picked up another truckload of goodies. Mainly Apple stuff but there is some TI, Mac, IBM, etc., stuff in there. The list follows here. Please let me know if you want any of this! Amazing how, until two weeks ago, I had very little Apple stuff, and now I have more than I can handle!! Also, for all of you who responded the last time I made a similar post, thanks for doing so! Your help on identifying many of the items was great. And for all of you who have requested stuff, I apologize in getting back to you in such a deliquent manner.... the e-mails are on file, I've just been so busy lately! I will get back to you and get this stuff out to you, that's a promise!! Please take a look at the URL in my signature at the very bottom... there's the complete inventory of what I have on-line, and also pages for what I am looking for. Other pages I have there are some interesting links, an Adventure International page (the classic game company-- Scott Adams), my autographed memorabilia page, classic computer photo gallery, downloads, and this 'what's new' list, and some other stuff you may like to browse. Anyway, here is the recent list of what I just got. Let me know if you can take some off of my hands or have some info. on it, ok? Thanks for your time, CORD -------------------------THE LIST----------------------------------------------------- Computers/CPU's ----------------------- * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these more rare than the tan cases? Model # PHC004a Ser # 8184424. *Apple //e computer. This has 2 drives attached internally as well. This computer also has keys with white lettering on them. I have others that are black lettered (???). Model # A252064. The twod rives are Disk ][. Drive Model # are A2M0003. Seriel # on the drives are: 416072 & 788419. Computer ser. # is 020130. Oh, computer also has a printer cable coming out the back. * Apple //e computer. This one has a volumn adjuster and a large ear-phone jack added into the case. Also this model has a the light to the left of the open-Apple button. Black lettering on the keyboard. Has been stripped of all the cards out the back, although looking in, it has some stuff in there yet. Model # A2S2064 * Apple //e computer. Has been stripped of just about everything internally. Need to open it up to see what exactly is there still! Monitors ------------ * Apple monitor: Model #A2M2010 - green phosphor with internal tilting screen. * Macintosh 12" Monochrome Display. Family #: M1050. Has a note that says, "blury screen." Haven't tested. * Apple Monitor ///. Model #: A3M0039 - made in June 1983. * Disk Drives/Other Storage --------------------------------- * Apple 3.5" disk drive... is this for Mac only or //e, etc also? Model #m0130. * 2 Apple Disk // drives... More info found above in the CPU section -- attached to a machine. * IBM 4869 5.25" disk drive. I have 3 of these. They have big, heavy duty cables attached which go to the machine. Does anyone have more information on these? Printers ---------- *Printer Pro Parallel Printer Interface for the Apple //+, //e, and //GS computers. With original box and instructions, cable and all original packaging. * Two Apple printers that weigh a ton!! Tan cases, 80 column printers (?) Model #: A9M0303. * Apple // Imagewriter // printer. * Apple wide-carriage printer (160 column?) Model # A9M0305 - no power cable. Books/Manuals --------------------- * Ernie's Quiz by Apple & Children's Television Workshop. Manual * Level II BASIC Reference manual for the TRS-80 - 2nd Edition. * Apple HyperCard User's Guide. * Apple // 80-Column Text Card Manual. * Apple // AppleMouse User's Manual * Ashton-Tate Developer Registry, 2nd Edition. Ashton-Tate made Dbase /// Plus. 540 pages. 1988 * Tank Tactics Teacher's Guide for Program Nos. 1-7 -- for Apple and TRS-80, TRS-80 CoCo. With plastic * PCA/XT 88 Personal Computer User's Guide. 143 pages. No clue who published this, but a ton of good info. * Wing Commander ??: Vengeance of the Kilrathi manual. By Reveal Computer Products. 23 pages. * Learning BASIC Programming in 14 days on Your Commodore 64 by Gil M. Schecter (SAMS). 192 pages. * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer Manual User's Guide #26-2960. 200 pages (?) * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer Guide to Printing in Colour. #26-2963. 40 pages(?). * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer - Printer Driver User's Guide. 20 pages(?) * Write Now v. 2.2 for the Macintosh manual. 235 pages. * HyperTalk Beginner's Guide: An Introducting to Scripting. For Mac. 150 Pages. * Macintosh manual. (2 copies... one has water-damage). 160 pages. * Atari Games & Rectreations. Programming book for the Atari 400 and 800. reston Publishing Company.338 pages * The Epson Connection: Macintosh by Rick Dayton. 260 pages. Use of Epson printers with the Mac. * Apple // Monitor // User's Manual.12 pages. (2 copies) * Tandy Personal DeskMate 2 manual... for the 1000 series. 463 pages. * Apple // Apple 5.25 Drive Owner's Guide. 18 pages... for //,//+,//e,//c,//GS computers. * Apple // Extended 80-Column Text Card Supplement - for //e only. 60 pages. * Apple // 80-Column Text Card Manual for //e only. 75 pages. (2 copies) * About You Enhanced Apple //e: User's Guide. 14 pages. * BITFax manual: A Communications Program for Send Fax Modems. By Bit Software, Inc of Multipas, CA. 91 pgs. * Apple direct magazine. Vol. 3 No. 2 Nov. 1990. 32 pages. * Apple schematics sheet by Data Technology. The card this is for can be found at the bottom of the misc section * Apple // Technical Notes - May 1988 written by Scott Knaster of Apple Computer. 200+ pages, Stapes and 3-ring punched. Miscellaneous ------------------- *Archer joystick for a PC. It has a fairly 'tall' stick on it, with two buttons on the front. Also has trim settings, auto fire option, A/b selectors for both directions, and four suction cups on the bottom. Has both 15 and 9 pin plugs. *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? *MCP AP-16 Memory Module: I would like some info on this. This is some type of expansion card, etc. It is about 8 inches long and 3 inches wide. It contains 18 chips, 10 of which say AM9016EPC & 8248FMP. The other chips are labeled SP225, SP229, P218, SP245-b, SP220, and SP238. The card also has a red switch on it. Really no other information... oh, it also has 4 led lights. Please let me know something about this! *Expansion card of some sort for the Apple //e. This is about 3"x2" as is (c) 1988 by Applied Engineering. It says ][e 64k on the side by the 'plug-in', and on the other side is says KEYBOARD. Please let me know how this thing is used! * 1.5 foot cable. Adapter of some sort. Looks like a PC joystick adapter. 15 pin male to 9 pin female. * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... didn't realise they made joysticks. Has a 9 pin connector on it. Does anyone know what computer this was for, or when it was made? * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more tips on what this might be. Software ----------- *Apple Presents the //e: An Introduction - and a backup copy which has been copied. *Apple DOS 3.3 DemoDisk * Courseware Sampler by Random House: Tutorial Comprehension. Side A & B - Apple * Courseware Sampler by Random House: Tutorial Comprehension. Side C & D - Apple * Apple //e and //c Diagnostic Disk * Using Context Clues, Program #1. for the Apple //. By Imperial International Learning Corp. * Sequencing Events, Program #4 for the Apple //. By Imperial International Learning Corp. * The O'Brien Vocabulary Placement Test by Activity Records for the Apple // - 48k. * Blank double sided disk * Knowledge Master disks. Used in schools for a national competition. Geez, I used to use these in school! For the Apple and I got 6 copies. * Mastertype's Writer for the Apple //e and //c. By Scarborough Systems, Inc. * Teacher's Software Library by the Duncan Institute of New Port Richey, FL. (Apple?) * Scholastic PFS: Write for the Apple //c & //e. By Software Publishing Corp. * Math Shop for Apple //+, //e, //c. By Scholastic. * Telewrite-80 vers. 1.0 Rev. B -- not original (copy).... for what computer I don't know? * IBM Assistant Home Solutions by IBM. * Visicalc in original box by VisiCorp Personal Software. Has both original disks and two backups. Original Manual, notebook for all, etc. * * 3.5" disks for the Mac. Hyperdrive boot disk, HyperStudio, Stupid Mac Tricks by Bob LeVitus, 3 disk by EduComp. -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 01:39:23 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <004601bd4740$a7d9f4c0$31f438cb@nostromo> I've placed the requested view on the page... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html The motherboard is marked REV A The serial # of the machine is 00029 I doubt there could have been many more of these made. Enjoy! A -----Original Message----- From: Greg Troutman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >Andrew Davie wrote: >> >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status >lights--I've got a fetish ;) From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 01:54:50 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Vector 3 Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget the name of the other. I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 02:16:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and > I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. <...> > > I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & > clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one ^^^^^^^^ It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not very common over here. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 02:25:59 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these > more rare than the tan cases? Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often as the tan case model. > * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on > the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, > some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... I have a Laser 50, but it's currently dead. It looks kinda neat, but I haven't spent any time yet trying to revive it. > * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 > various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more > tips on what this might be. Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't remember. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 4 02:41:41 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> Les Berry wrote: > >Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into > >one of those? > > Yup, just set switches 5 and 6 to on dipswitch 1 to disable the video > controller. Not a viable option on the earlier 6300s. Angry customers caused that to change with a major motherboard revision. I don't know what the numbers are on the two varieties (the WGS series is a different and more PC compatible situation), but I know that a non-trivial number of 6300s which _couldn't_ accept video cards came in for service when I was at a long-time AT&T retailer in the late 80s. >Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC > >clone? The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix and the first DOS-under-Unix product, DOSMerge 1.0. Which worked fine, if slowly, as long as you just did DOS system calls, not hardware calls (as mentioned earlier in this thread about the 6300 video subsystem). Of course, if you held yourself to DOS calls instead of hardware calls, performance sucked on all straight PCs and clones, which is why most software never ran on superior equipment like the Tandy 2000, the original TI Professional or the AT&T (original) 6300 series. DOS-under-Unix products can trap those vectors nowadays, but early efforts and systems relying on MS-DOS alone didn't have that ability. > I think it was just meant to be an enhanced PC clone. I have to admit tho, > the 6300 case design is still one of my favorites (looks real purdy sittin' next > to a 3B2) and not a bad overall machine for it's age. Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 02:49:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > That sounds like the Intel MDS800 box. It takes multibus cards - the <...> > Time for you to start collecting (8-bit) Multibus stuff... I knew I should've picked up the two I saw at another stall but I wasn't quite sure what to make of them. One was interesting...it had a Z80 and a 68000 on it. I was once at a surplus shop that had tons of these boards but I never bothered with them because I didn't know what they were for. They've since been scrapped. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 02:51:55 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Maybe something fun! Message-ID: <34FD162B.613C9D07@crl.com> I snarfed this ad off some classified ads web site. Maybe someone in Southern Cal has a truck handy.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPLETE network system, 1 mainframe, 7 stations, fast & reliable, great for small business, sacrifice, $350 or trade for ? (310) 822-4052 $350 -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:01:29 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <34FB6EC5.7AD2E5AC@crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Lawrence Livermore Laboratories > ------------------------------- > MST-80b (8080a machine nicely mounted in a briefcase! (C) 1976) Now THAT is something to hold onto! > Memorex > ------- > Custom Wire-Wrapped 6800-based System in Generic S-100 Backplane Box > (I think from the panel scribbling, this was used to read/write digital > audio tape--one switch at a time ;) maybe historical? maybe not.) And this one too! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:24:08 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in > :>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, > :>certainly in later > > :Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to > :doing everything in software, alas... > > ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's > a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare > minimum of hardware. The Apple Disk ][ Controller boot ROM is a thing of absolute, unrivaled beauty. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:26:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Hello (fwd) Message-ID: Here's the response from Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert". A hint of promise, I suppose. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:48 -0500 From: Qs To: Sam Ismail Subject: Re: Hello I will visit your web page and keep you in mind, sometimes the historical value of things do outweigh its scrap value. Regards, Jim Sciuto -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: quiksand@tiac.net Cc: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:36 PM Subject: Hello >To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm > >I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group >of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve >some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you >may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines >you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value >you may be extracting from their circuits. > >I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find >the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not >compelling. > >Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts >of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of >would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer >Festival web page: > >http://www.siconic.com/vcf > >Sincerely, > >Sam Ismail >Vintage Technology Cooperative >http://www.siconic.com/vcf > From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:28:37 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I've never had any problems with mine, thankfully. Does anyone have a > service manual/schematic for these drives - just in case mine ever fail? There's a good chance that I do but I won't know until I organize my stuff. I'll let you know if/when I find them. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 06:35:42 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00b301bd476a$0d17a200$31f438cb@nostromo> Re: Sorcerers down Under. There was a strong user group base down here in the late 70s and early 80s. I remember having a real hard time deciding between a Sorcerer and an Atari 800. I eventually chose the Atari, with no regrets. But, I seem to remember the Sorcerer as being fairly common. Not easy to find now, but a lot of us down under collectors seem to have one or two (or three, but I won't tease too much). Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Demography? >On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > >> I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and >> I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. ><...> >> >> I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & >> clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one > ^^^^^^^^ >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 06:43:39 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's Message-ID: <01bd476b$282aac80$LocalHost@hotze> OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a small one? -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's >>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> >>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and >some >>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a >>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the >>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash >>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for >>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard >>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) >> >>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there >>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC >>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM >>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's >>(new?) credit-card computer, see: >> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html >> >>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for >>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: >> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ >> >>-- Doug >> >> > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 06:44:22 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd476b$41c452e0$LocalHost@hotze> I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself... ><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is >I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok. 2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe (http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed on their website, you'd have to ask them... And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40 MB versions,with 80MB coming soon... >>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design). Same here. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 06:43:48 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00e401bd476b$2e1a7300$31f438cb@nostromo> I should be more careful what I say. It's not a clone of an 8800b. I have no idea about the 8800a. A -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, >I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans >Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): > http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm > >Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? > >-- Doug > > From eve at powerup.com.au Wed Mar 4 06:55:17 1998 From: eve at powerup.com.au (Eve Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve> -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > The Sorcerer was marketed in Australia by a nationwide group called "Dick Smith Electronics" which was a pioneer in the home computer market here in many ways. They also sold a TRS80 Model 1 clone called "Dick Smith System 80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the "Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys underneath. I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of Australia if we ever become a republic!) I have here a data sheet for the Sorcerer from 1979 or 1980 in which the 8K machine cost $A1295 and the 16K cost $1395. The only extras advertised then were a cassette recorder for $A35 and the monitor for $A150. from Brisbane, Australia Phil Guerney From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 07:07:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Dick Smith Wizzard Message-ID: <016801bd476e$8a21fda0$31f438cb@nostromo> >80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the >"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two >paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves >of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for >the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys >underneath I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module. Cheers A PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when sending to the list? From Guerney at uq.net.au Wed Mar 4 07:17:17 1998 From: Guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <003d01bd476f$dc1138a0$32f665cb@eve> -----Original Message----- From: Eve Guerney Oops, Eve is my daughter! I must learn to make sure the message gets posted from the correct account on this machine I may as well take the chance and add some real demography info. I'm new to actually collecting old micros, but I have thought about if for a while! I have my original VIC-20, C64, Amiga500 and now also a beautiful mint condition TRS80 Model II and an Apple ][+ and a one owner Atari 800. I got a Coco1 and a CoCo2 this week, consoles only, but I can't get anything on the TV from them yet so they may be just rubbish. I'm a mid-40's scientist working in the minerals business in Brisbane, Australia. I DREAMED of owning a Sorcerer more than anything else in the world when a postgraduate student (graduate student to you North Americans) in 1978, then in 1979 a PET would have done me. Money shortage kept me from actually owning a micro until the VIC-20 dropped to $A299 here in 1982. I joined the local Commodore Users Group and stayed with them through the C64 and the Amiga days, even becoming President of the group for two years through the last days of Commodore while our membership finished its shrinkage from over 1000 (in the late 1980's) to less than 50 now. Now I am just learning the best ways of picking up and looking after these marvellous machines. Any other Australians who want to make themselves known to me are welcome. from Phil Guerney Brisbane, Australia. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 08:21:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304082133.45bfab88@intellistar.net> At 08:25 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> However they are compatable at the DOS level. > >Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and >150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct >hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running >across both, as well as the IBM PC. > Or at least they're supposed to. But the AT&T is compatable enough that it will run IBM DOS, that's a lot more than many of the machines of that age will do. The AT&T and Zeniths are the most compatable machines that I know of for that time period. AFAIK the AT&T and Zentih are both compatable at the BIOS level as well as the DOS level. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 07:40:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible/ builing with old iron Message-ID: <199803041340.AA07730@world.std.com> <(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB Here's a stretch. If anybody has a Helios II disk drive available for sale or trade I'd be eternally grateful. If Gary has any spare Persci drives I would be grateful to get one of those also. I have recently acquired a Sol-20 and have a NorthStar controller with a 5 1/4" floppy drive (which I haven't got up and running yet). I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this package) have failed thus far. Thanks for any help or hints- Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 4 07:49:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <01bd476b$41c452e0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <13336989154.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I could see a use for that... By making a NanoPC (?) small enough, I could have a console for my uVAX 2000 that I could tape (or something?) to the top of the machine - Then I'd truly have a portable VAX! Maybe if I do go make creative use of batteries... Ehehe... VAX LUGGABLE! (That'd be fun for the trips to Indy! They could be driving away, and I could hack VAX in the backseat..) ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 07:56:04 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd4775$46370ac0$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/2e69a433/attachment.html From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:04:54 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible/ builing with old iron Message-ID: <01bd4776$822333a0$LocalHost@hotze> >Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The >whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not >suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something >under 100mb is more resonable for my project. Don't ask me!!! I didn't know waht CP/M was until a week ago. Funny story. I've looked all over the Internet for stuff on my II+, but found II, IIc, IIe, etc. stuff instead. Then, I look at my school library, and I find a 84/85 edition of a kind of "computer encyclopedia", and a book called "Apple II User's Guide", which only covers the ][ and the ][+. >????? What are they and approximate cost. For the 80 MB version, it's soupossed to cost around $80. Be warned, these are 1" chips that are soupossed to contain Windows 95/98 on them (with room for expansion, etc.) It's like a hard disk on a chip. I've only heard about them. The advantage is relatively low cost, but definately lower power consumption and less space. I'm trying to build a machine myself. Right now, I'm into hardware, software'll come later. I'm thinking an ELKS machine, or such. Where the heck can I get hardware that isn't aimed for 10,000 units? Like 1 or 2? Using IDE, probably a 386/486 chip, and I'd need graphics, etc. Can someone please help me? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:06:31 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd4776$bbf2b380$LocalHost@hotze> Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM Subject: List not working? Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/04981f83/attachment.html From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:34:57 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd477a$b4815940$LocalHost@hotze> Now, it's not working again. Sorry, this discussion seems to be pretty one-sided. ;-) Sorry, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:09 PM Subject: Re: List not working? Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM Subject: List not working? Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/a4b03f90/attachment.html From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 08:44:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> < < I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but < there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid < of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this < package) have failed thus far. Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch do to a memory problem or other system fault. Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble shoot from there. Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS* controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot and do nothing. FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU! If I were nearby I'd offer to help. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 08:44:15 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803041444.AA11051@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304103004.5377fc04@intellistar.net> At 01:07 AM 3/4/98 -0800, Cord wrote: >Greets: >* Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these >more rare than the tan cases? Not in my experience. I've seen dozens of silver TIs but only one tan one. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:31:30 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304103130.53777dbc@intellistar.net> FWIW I have two Vector Graphics 8K memory boards in my Altair. At 11:54 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California >> (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix > >Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector >Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two >housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget >the name of the other. > >I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:50:14 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't >remember. > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:53:50 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> References: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >> >clone? > >The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix Ward, Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? Joe From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Wed Mar 4 10:04:05 1998 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the keyboard wreaking havoc. If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly, you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?) capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things to do. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu From lfb107 at psu.edu Wed Mar 4 10:47:16 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803041649.LAA83684@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> >Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black >fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly >as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black inserts, etc.) les From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 11:04:36 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34FD89A4.67097CCE@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > >remember. > > > > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. > They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if > they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. DTC stands for Data Technologies Corp and they're still in business, with a web site at http://www.datatechnology.com/ and there are info and setup docs available at TheRef(c) as well, located at http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/. MFM, RLL and ESDI contollers generally have one 34 pin header for the "data" cable (and some have another 34 for the floppy controller) and two 20 pin "control" cables, one for each drive the controller is capable of interfacing to. IDE controllers have one or two 40 pin headers (and possibly a 34 for floppies). There are other things the controllers should be looked at for in the older machines as well. The average MFM, RLL controllers are usually a 1:3 or 1:4 interleave controller but many of the better ones are 1:1 interleave. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:04:48 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where > Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ = Bob Marsh > Technology both spoke. The production numbers were 10,000 with > approximately the first 5,000 being produced as kits, and the last 5,000 > produced as assembled units. I don't recall the date they went out of > business (1981???) but it will be on the tape. From my recollection of the > talk, the reason they went out of business was more along the lines of bad > business decisions rather than hardware problems. Plus I believe some animosity started to form between the two at the time. I'll be making a VCF 1.0 session compilation tape which will be made available on the web site in about a month (need to seek approvals from all involved). Some of these were great talks (the Felsenstein/Marsh talk was especially entertaining). There's a lot of good history. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 11:06:20 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 4, 98 05:32:31 pm Message-ID: <9803041706.AA21123@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 569 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/fb01b4b1/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:07:34 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980303184120.00e52870@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, a TI-92 is a 10 MHz 68K; > they can both graph like bandits and are adequate game machines. I've > always called them computers and, though my stand-straight-and-salute > loyalty is to HP, I have harbored impure thoughts about a 92; just never > quite parted with the $160 for one. (Now, if I could hook a Kittyhawk to a > 92....) Wow! I never thought I was playing with such power. This baby helped me immensely in some calculus courses I took a couple years back. I gladly paid $200 for it as it was another cool gizmo to add to my portfolio of techno-gadgetry. Naturally all my class-mates were jealous. Who'da known it would be a classic some day? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:17:40 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box > about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so > tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic > self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, > TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch > wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by > themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > *Expansion card of some sort for the Apple //e. This is about 3"x2" as > is (c) 1988 by Applied Engineering. It says ][e 64k on the side by the > 'plug-in', and on the other side is says KEYBOARD. Please let me know > how this thing is used! A 64K/80 Column card for the Apple. This plugs into the auxiliary slot. The "KEYBOARD" is there to make sure you don't plug it in backwards (the "KEYBOARD" end should face the keyboard). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 11:28:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: Message-ID: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box > > about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so > > tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic > > self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, > > TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch > > wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by > > themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? > > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also used the Apple socket type joystick. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:27:23 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead video ROM. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:34:44 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Message-ID: Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Mar 4 11:35:05 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Here's my contribution. I must confess to not having read all the previous ones - traffic on the list has been somewhat high and my boss has been making noises about my spending so much time reading it :-( I suppose I'll have to get TCP/IP on my IBM 6150 ... My name is Philip Belben and I'm an electrical engineer by trade. I work for PowerGen, one of the electricity generating companies formed when the UK split up its electricity industry in 1990. I'm 30 years old (31 next week) and still single. I live alone in a 3-bedroom house full of computers and other electronic junk, located at Coalville, England. My introduction to computers was when my school got a Commodore PET in 1979. Suitable pestering of my parents meant that I received a secondhand, 8K PET for my 13th birthday in 1980. I then caught the computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer science even though they had no-one to teach it. After leaving school at 18 I did a year with IBM (Marketing - UGH!) before going to university. At university in 1987 I met Tony Duell, who had just founded the P850 User Group to preserve old computers. I caught the collecting bug at about that time, and I now have around 60 of the things. Old computers is just one hobby among many, though. I also write music; I play the organ at my local church (yes I am a Christian), and also sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my camera is a Yashicaflex 635 (late 1960s?) that I bought for 6 UK pounds (just under $10) at a charity auction. My car is a 1971 Marcos Mantis - a British kit car of which about 32 were made and 14 are believed to survive - which I bought two years ago because I wanted something sportier than my 1965 Ford Anglia (I shall always regret getting rid of the Anglia). I also have a 1948 Fordson (= UK brand name for Ford commercial vehicles until 1950s) truck, useful for carting computers around. When I get the truck back on the road, I intend to join the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. Since this is not strictly on topic, I'd better not say any more! Philip. From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 11:44:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.124305.1767.85759@smtp.itgonline.com> Could I get a copy of the tape or a transcription? Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/3/98 9:51 PM At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote: >Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where >Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor >Technology Bob Marsh. >I don't recall the date they went out of >business (1981???) May 14, 1979. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar03.215115.1767.30006; Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:51:15 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA22466; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:46 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA29288 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:39 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id SAA02135 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:37 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17015; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980303184423.00faeb00@pop.batnet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:44:23 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 11:59:29 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.125853.1767.85763@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Allison. As the VDM-1 is built-in I obviously can't pull it but will check for a bad trace etc. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 9:53 AM < < I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but < there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid < of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this < package) have failed thus far. Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch do to a memory problem or other system fault. Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble shoot from there. Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS* controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot and do nothing. FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU! If I were nearby I'd offer to help. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.095317.1767.30083; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:53:18 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id GAA14619; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:30 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id GAA25332 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:19 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id GAA00327 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:07 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA25056; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA10912; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 12:04:18 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.130252.1767.85766@smtp.itgonline.com> Great information, thanks Scott, and thanks as well to Allison. I'll check the archives for the keyboard mail. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 11:19 AM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the keyboard wreaking havoc. If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly, you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?) capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things to do. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.111904.1767.30103; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:19:04 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA25044; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:19 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA17026 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:10 -0800 Received: from xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (xtal.pharm.nwu.edu [165.124.225.192]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA22544 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (ware@localhost) by xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00316 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:05 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:05 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Scott Ware To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 4 11:57:40 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> At 11:28 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >Sam Ismail wrote: > >> On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: >> >> > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box [snip] >> >> This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in >> the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing >> you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty >> joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > >These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also >used the Apple socket type joystick. Was this the same Sanyo that was sold as the "Silver Fox" or something along those lines? Back in 1984 when my wife and I were looking for "our" first computer, we had originally settled on the Leading Edge/Mitsubishi and called to order one from an outfit in AZ. As usual, we were a day late, Mitsubishi had just put the clamps on the Leading Edge mail order business the day before. We managed to "bribe" the salesman to "buy one for himself" and ship it to us on the sly, but he got cold feet and backed out. Our second choice was a toss-up between the PCjr and Silver Fox (??). We ended up with the PCjr, which may or may not have been the better of the two. Now I have about thirty PCjrs in storage in different states from empty boxes to complete units. Before the jr was unplugged for the last time, it ran the NPCjrUG BBS with a 10MB Racore hard drive (blew up two disk drives before we got a good one, one just from wifie's vacuum cleaner bumping the desk--needless to say, the carpet around daddy's desk was "hand cleaned" from then on) a Racore 384K expansion in the drive stacker, a 128K Microsoft sidecar with bus mouse and one of the first three USR Courier 2400s in Tulsa, as far as we know. We were so cool. Of course, I'm getting old (39 this July), so I may have the chronology a little screwed up. I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 12:14:42 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 12:39 PM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead video ROM. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.123957.1767.30125; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:39:58 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA27618; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:28:02 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA25104 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:38 -0800 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA01692 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:37 -0800 Received: from shell (shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id JAA19437 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 13:01:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California > > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two > housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget > the name of the other. Seems to me that somewhere in their history that they were based in Westlake Village (L.A. suburb). - don > I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 13:03:43 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these > > more rare than the tan cases? > > Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often > as the tan case model. > > > * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on > > the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, > > some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... > > I have a Laser 50, but it's currently dead. It looks kinda neat, but I > haven't spent any time yet trying to revive it. > > > * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 > > various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more > > tips on what this might be. > > Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > remember. They also manufactured MFM/RLL hard disk controllers. - don > -- > mor@crl.com > http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 13:17:10 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> Message-ID: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> David Wollmann wrote: > >These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it > also > >used the Apple socket type joystick. > > Was this the same Sanyo that was sold as the "Silver Fox" or something > along those lines? Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. > Back in 1984 when my wife and I were looking for "our" first computer, we > had originally settled on the Leading Edge/Mitsubishi and called to order > one from an outfit in AZ. As usual, we were a day late, Mitsubishi had just > put the clamps on the Leading Edge mail order business the day before. We > managed to "bribe" the salesman to "buy one for himself" and ship it to us > on the sly, but he got cold feet and backed out. Our second choice was a > toss-up between the PCjr and Silver Fox (??). We ended up with the PCjr, > which may or may not have been the better of the two. Now I have about > thirty PCjrs in storage in different states from empty boxes to complete > units. I guess you wouldn't want to buy a PCJr color display then (grin). You ended up way ahead, believe me. At least the Jr runs MS-DOS that the others can run, not a hacked version. > Before the jr was unplugged for the last time, it ran the NPCjrUG BBS with > a 10MB Racore hard drive (blew up two disk drives before we got a good one, > one just from wifie's vacuum cleaner bumping the desk--needless to say, the > carpet around daddy's desk was "hand cleaned" from then on) a Racore 384K > expansion in the drive stacker, a 128K Microsoft sidecar with bus mouse and > one of the first three USR Courier 2400s in Tulsa, as far as we know. We > were so cool. I too put a lot of unecessary time and money into my "compatible" to find that it was a real pain to hang onto. I've had offers of free Sanyo (I pronounce it Say-No anymore) four or five times and without hesitation refused them all. No more Sanyo anything in computers for me. I ran Fido off 4 floppies on the Sanyo as well down in Champaign-Urbana Illinois for a while too. > Of course, I'm getting old (39 this July), so I may have the chronology a > little screwed up. Wanna trade? I just turned 41 last month. > I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... I haven't even scratched the surface but you can imagine. > http://www.ibmhelp.com/ Pretty nice site, I'll have to explore this one more.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 13:19:30 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: Message-ID: <34FDA941.51C8A5CB@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two > > housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget > > the name of the other. > > Seems to me that somewhere in their history that they were based in > Westlake Village (L.A. suburb). This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the room for it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 4 13:16:43 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Scott Ware wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > > package) have failed thus far. > > Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive > unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of > one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit > board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the > key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam > disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, > and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the > keyboard wreaking havoc. (shameless plug warning) BTW: I have rebuild kits for these keyboards available. ($25/ea - replacements pads and instructions) Details on my website... (at least it was on-topic, no?) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 4 13:29:50 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I > haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"? (same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show up like this. This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry. (ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...) Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 4 14:04:50 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <199803042004.UAA12062@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :The PMOS one needs somewhat strange supplies (+5V and -7V from :memory). I can probably find more data if you need it. I certainly :have the SC/MP instruction set, etc. we'd like that, please... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 4 14:23:14 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304142314.008bbaf0@ibmhelp.com> At 01:17 PM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >David Wollmann wrote: > [snipperoo] > >> http://www.ibmhelp.com/ > >Pretty nice site, I'll have to explore this one more.... > I think it's kinda lame right now, the top destination page and top exit page is the list of links to IBM on the web, if that tells you anything. :) The funny thing is, most of the hits come from Research Triangle Park, he he he. I've got an IBM tech specs database about 70% complete and we're going to put it on the site. It includes all the Family One, almost all the PS/1s, PS/2s, Aptivas, etc. and some of the midrange boxes. The only problem right now is, ASPs seem to be a little shakey, and as frequent as crashes are on the NT/IIS box our site is on, I'm afraid to try it since my queries are going to pull about 35 columns (several with lookups) on a busy box. I may wait until I finish switching over to dedicated ISDN with a router and move the site over to our own Linux box running Apache. I think I'd rather spend my time learning Postgres than Mickeysoft's stuff anyway. Soon as I get my Snappy I'm going to start adding some pics--shooting every IBM box I have and every one that comes through here, then copy the GIF to the database. The next step is to dump all the old 8" Displaywriter, System/23 and 8" and 5.25" System/36 software distribution diskettes we've got here out to disk and press a CD of the images--the media are starting to get a little dicey. They won't be worth anything to anyone else unless they have a MicroTech 8" on a PC, or something similar, but I really want to preserve these binaries since IBM doesn't archive them. If I can ever find time, I want to start archiving the old manuals too. Anybody got a spare ADF for a ScanJet 4p? All this, and a System/36 emulator for Linux. Dave, the Rambling Computer Crazy From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 15:36:34 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> References: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304153634.48df309a@intellistar.net> At 11:57 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... > I had one and you DON'T! want to know! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 15:40:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: References: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304154059.48dfbcce@intellistar.net> At 11:03 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > >> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: >> >> > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these >> > more rare than the tan cases? >> >> Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often >> as the tan case model. I just came back from a trip to a trift store (brought back a truck load of computers^H but that's another story). They had both a silver and a tan model there. The tan one was in the original box with the original styro-foam "take-out box" liner. Joe From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 14:49:04 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.154727.1767.85827@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks for the response Jim. I'll check this out tonight and email results tomorrow morning. I don't recall a pattern but will look for that tonight. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 2:56 PM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I > haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"? (same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show up like this. This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry. (ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...) Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.145654.1767.30161; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 14:56:54 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA09316; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:58 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA29216 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:51 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (0@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id LAA15296 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (1566@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24585 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: James Willing To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 14:52:27 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803042052.AA27052@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304155349.48df2ad0@intellistar.net> At 01:19 PM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: > >This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the room for >it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. Hi Russ, FWIW I went back to the place where I found the original Vector disk and searched throught their pile of disks and came up with about 15 more hard sectored disks. At least two of them are originals. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 15:04:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> <> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable from what I gather. Allison From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Mar 4 14:08:12 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] In-Reply-To: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <199803042040.OAA07856@onyx.southwind.net> I would advise you to send them an e-mail with this text: "Wer etwass von sheise versteht weiss Ihre Telekoms Dinge zu schaetzen!" Basically, it tells them that they can all go to Hell. Jeff > While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice > classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved > from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the > original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand > loyalty.... > > --jmg > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100 > From: Christoph Meyer > To: maynard@jmg.com > Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem > > Sorry, > we don't support Telebit equipment any longer. > > cerm > - -- > TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de) > Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de) > Geiststr. 68 > 48151 Muenster > Germany > Tel: +251/97 256 70 > Fax: +251/97 256 79 > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > Damn! > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 15:17:06 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> They are marked 2102A Indeed... 8212 Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't want to any damage. What are the things I should check? Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:08 AM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >> Datanumerics DL8A web page... >> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html > >Nice pictures. Are those white ceramic 2101's or 2102's in the back of >the board? Are the 24-pin chips by the ribbon cable connectors Intel >8212's, by any chance? And it's hard to tell from the pictures, but >are the big chips near the RAM banks EPROM's or PROM's? > >A few people have remarked at the similarity of the front panel to the >Altair, but that's hardly surprising: they're both just straightforward >displays of the status signals available on the 8080A... > >Tim. > From engine at chac.org Wed Mar 4 15:29:05 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304132905.00f38740@pop.batnet.com> At 16:04 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. My kid paid $30, from another kid who was saving up for a 92. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Wed Mar 4 15:25:46 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says they'd be less than $50 each. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:44:30 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve> Message-ID: In article <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve>, Eve Guerney writes >I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just >re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he >advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson >adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil >aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of >Australia if we ever become a republic!) The System 80 was also sold as a Video Genie, IIRC, and in NZ as a "C/Micro" by a company that was buying them from the same place as DS was. I did a lot of work on them, and I have to say that they weren't exactly the best quality machine in the world, but then I guess neither was the TRS80. I think the best of the TRS80 derivatives was the LNW, in terms of build quality and function. Still, the System 80 sold well. I used one as a serial terminal for my IBM 360/30. It must have had one of the multi-function expansion cards which fitted under the main board and had a load of connectors on the left-hand side for serial, centronics, FDD etc. I remember we used to do RAM expansions by the solder-one-chip-on-top-of-another method, oh what fun. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 15:48:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.164835.1767.85860@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks for the the glimmer of hope. Count me in for an order. Any assistance Lee can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get this Sol up and running in as original condition as possible. Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 4:40 PM At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says they'd be less than $50 each. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.164018.1767.30185; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 16:40:19 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA25678; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:31:23 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA13846 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:32 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id NAA31553 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:31 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA24132; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:25:46 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 15:56:02 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive Message-ID: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha? A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system, but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in. Is it treasure or trash? Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 16:01:05 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <01bd47b9$07a026e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> From: Andrew Davie >They are marked 2102A >Indeed... 8212 >Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A > >Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying >any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't >want to any damage. What are the things I should check? > >Cheers >A > 2102s are 1Kbit x 1 static RAMS, the memory of choice in the 70's, power hungry but easy to design with. An Intel 8212 is an 8 bit latch (should be a 24 pin DIP), commonly used on 8080 boards to latch some control signals. 1702s are 256 x 8 (2Kbit) EPROMs, a real pain to program, that's probably where your boot code is. Jack Peacock From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:03:46 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 08:17:06 am Message-ID: <9803042203.AA31378@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/6ded09e5/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:07:04 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 4, 98 01:56:02 pm Message-ID: <9803042207.AA32737@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/59db86f6/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:07:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD89A4.67097CCE@bbtel.com> References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304170721.2f8773e2@intellistar.net> At 11:04 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't >> >remember. >> > >> >> Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. >> They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if >> they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. > >DTC stands for Data Technologies Corp and they're still in business, with a web >site at http://www.datatechnology.com/ and there are info and setup docs >available at TheRef(c) as well, located at http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/. > >MFM, RLL and ESDI contollers generally have one 34 pin header for the "data" Yes, I know the difference. I just haven't seen the controllers in a couple of years. Thanks for the URL though, it might be handy if I ever find the controllers. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:16:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304171610.4387a1b6@intellistar.net> A friend of mine found one a couple of weeks ago at a hamfest for $5. Joe At 04:04 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. > >Allison > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:21:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> References: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304172146.506fa19c@intellistar.net> At 01:25 PM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: >> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying >> the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong >> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? > >Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some >new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says >they'd be less than $50 each. > Kip, Give me the particulars of the ROMs and I'll ask a buddy of mine that owns a fab company. BTW can't these be done in EPROM? Joe >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 16:29:29 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> Although recent world-wide test results have proven otherwise, the US board of education seems to think that calculators improve students' minds (I feel that the insane amount of money that schools put into technology these days is better spent on books and teachers). Therefore, in our school most seniors and juniors either own or rent a TI-8x. The TI-83 is the one that the school actually promotes, but TI-85s are often stole...ahem....seen as well. My friend is probably one of the few there to have a TI-92. I'll bet it could run System 1.0 with a few modifications ;) >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. > >Allison PS That OS I mentioned earlier is essentially Win3.1 for TI. It is a concurrent windowing interface. Right now, he's trying to figure out the concurrent part... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:33 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: SCSI cards Message-ID: <19980304223434.5027.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have an extra ISA or MCA SCSI card? I have a pair of 80MB macintosh hard drives that I want to use... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:48:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Mar 4, 98 05:35:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1010 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/e6f866fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:56:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 4, 98 01:14:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/2feb8b02/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:38:48 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 4, 98 02:29:29 pm Message-ID: <9803042238.AA32182@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/6e3f6650/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:39:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Mar 4, 98 10:04:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2182 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/ecf91cdb/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 16:52:31 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive Message-ID: <01bd47c0$36f41260$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> From: Tim Shoppa >> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no >> docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came >> with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape >> drive > >Sure - it's a rebadged CDC Keystone, Pertec formatted interface. Is that the same interface as a TS05? I have a TSV05 Q-bus controller, same dual 50 pin cables. >>, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 >> Q-Bus > >Sure. Is the card a DQ132? It's a DQ152, rev A, dual wide Q-bus card, with 2 50 pin ribbon connectors. It uses an 8097 controller CPU (part of the MCS-96 family if I recall correctly), 14.745Mhz xtal (an odd speed, something Pertec related?), a couple gate arrays (Q-Bus and Pertec interfaces?), an EPROM, and a 2063 type static RAM. Circuit board has a 1986 copyright date >*Do not* plug the Dilog card into a Q-bus if the board number begins with >DU. That would be a Bad Thing. Customer doesn't have any Unibus machines, I thought of that The board has one jumper block, I assume for the CSR address. It's a single in-line 10 pin header, with pins 2 and 3 jumpered together. Might someone have the settings for this? If not I'll try the VMS newsgroup. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:55:33 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47c0$36f41260$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 4, 98 02:52:31 pm Message-ID: <9803042255.AA29417@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 990 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/7e77d1cc/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:08:21 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304132905.00f38740@pop.batnet.com> References: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803042300.SAA20388@mail.cgocable.net> > At 16:04 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > > > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable > >from what I gather. > > My kid paid $30, from another kid who was saving up for a 92. Allison, that is about right on average; 20-40 at most. I know because I saw that many time for TI82, 85 and way down cost on 80's. And, I have 30mb 2.5 44pin IDE conner hd pulled out of my Luddite for $20 USD if you wish for your Z80 project. Remember this is original stuff not 2nd hand. 0 Error. > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:06:10 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > <> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > > I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable > from what I gather. I think TI-85's are still sold in stores, are they not? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 4 17:15:36 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer Message-ID: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1206 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/f4112378/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:17:32 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199803042309.SAA22691@mail.cgocable.net> > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in > > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing > > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty > > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > > These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also > used the Apple socket type joystick. Oh really? That is weird. :) I used to have *3* MBC 555 w/o HDC, just basic 2 180K drives and maxed out one or two to 256k and played with them until it blew up. Do you have more info about these MBC 555's and I'm bit puzzled by everyone's comments about quality, Sanyo made those boxes that IBM put to shame in quality overall in their PC and XT boxes. The power supplies is oh goody old fashioned linear type not switcher and all bare. The fan is ball bearing type and very SILENT, I still have this fan. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:09:33 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no <...> > A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked > if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system, > but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in. Ask him if he's got the rest of the system to go with it. > Is it treasure or trash? Treasure, of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 12:56:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 4, 98 09:44:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/75b2414b/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 4 17:20:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <9803042207.AA32737@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13337093180.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TU80 is a rebadged...] So then why can't I just plug any Pertec Formatted drive into a TU80 controller? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 17:28:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <13337093180.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 4, 98 03:20:57 pm Message-ID: <9803042328.AA30223@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/62da9deb/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:34:11 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer In-Reply-To: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I've spotted an ALTOS computer at WeirdStuff today. At first I thought > it was a disk drive only, but it appears to be the whole computer. > I remember seeing lots and lots of ALTOS ads and info in my old BYTE > collection (sadly, 3000 miles away from me right now), so I'm guessing > it's not all that rare of a beast. The front is black and says only > "ALTOS", and the case is metal with a faux wood-grain. (mmmm, how 70's!) I've got two. But I'd say they are at least uncommon. > It looks like your standard desktop late-70's-early-80's vintage S100 type > computer, about IMSAI-sized. Should I pick it up? It's $12.50, seems > like a rip-off to me :) Although it does have two manuals (!) with it. > A rare find in themselves, probably. Good price. Grab it. > Although I do have an IMSAI 8080 in Connecticut (argh... again, 3000 > miles away :) my experience with S100 is very, very slim. I'm a bid > DEC fan kinda-guy, so I'll need all the help I can get :) I don't think the Altos has an S-100 bus. In fact I'm almost sure of it. Ask them if its ok for you to open it up and check before you buy it. At any rate, at $12.50 its definitely a good deal. Sounds like WeirdStuff is back in the game. They stopped putting really good stuff up for sale for a period of time there. I was talking to someone at Sunday's ham fest about WS and they said that they now have a back room where they sell everything as-is. I'll have to start checking them out. BTW, is that Symbolics LISP machine still there or is it long gone? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Mar 4 17:28:18 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> References: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: >At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >>> >clone? >> >>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix > > Ward, > > Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week >and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? More precisely, it could run either AND both. To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, but not in the AT-compatible way. Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, very nicely. The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is descended from SImultask. <<>> From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304082133.45bfab88@intellistar.net> References: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00182@mail.cgocable.net> > At 08:25 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Joe wrote: > >> However they are compatable at the DOS level. > > > >Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and > >150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct > >hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running > >across both, as well as the IBM PC. This way, it's certain that gives you VERY POOR performacne and as other guys have said, most s/w are done by talking directly to low level hardware either to bios or direct to certain chips for performance reasons. Zenith and good xt clones based on any good AMI, Phoenix and Award at this time passes this. 6300 no way and total pain to work on this and too few where I'm in this area. Curious: What was that type of brand and models of those hard drives that failed and why using hard cards? I thought you can reuse those original controller and use better hard drive in place of orignals? Jason D. > > > > Or at least they're supposed to. But the AT&T is compatable enough that > it will run IBM DOS, that's a lot more than many of the machines of that > age will do. The AT&T and Zeniths are the most compatable machines that I > know of for that time period. AFAIK the AT&T and Zentih are both > compatable at the BIOS level as well as the DOS level. > > Joe > > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> References: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00193@mail.cgocable.net> > At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > >remember. > > > > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. > They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if > they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. DTC did everything but I was not exactly happy with their design of setup and quality. I recall I can't disable the FDC. I have 2 MFM and RLL full length 1:1 AT with FDC controllers. One time, DTC card simply died and impossible to fix when I had bunch of them. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Dick Smith Wizzard In-Reply-To: <016801bd476e$8a21fda0$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00189@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a > Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL... > > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html > > My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to > absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module. > > Cheers > A > > PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when > sending to the list? Dick Smith is reselling one of my favorite tool called ESR Meter to check out the health state of the capacitors cleverly designed by Bob Parker based on the Z86 microcontroller and one IC cost appox $40 US. But I have a nitpick about Dick Smith; their payment policy leaves to be much desired. I wound up getting one from another canadian guy who got about 10 of them and after on 'net for plea. :) The regular old trick with analog meter or capacitance meter miss sick caps but the ESR meter did catch those baddies. ESR is vital in switching and rapid responses where hi-frequency circuits is used. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Mar 4 19:51:45 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980304175145.00930100@mail.wfi-inc.com> Hi Sam, Is this the circa 1980 Dos-ish machine from Canada? I'd be interested....is it yours? I live just north of Orange County (Glendora) and I could go pick it up. Thanks, Aaron BTW, no pressure on that ATR8000, but did you trade it away? I'm only asking again because there was a rumour of one on ebay that I'll bid on if so.... At 09:34 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000? > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:19:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803042052.AA27052@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 4, 98 03:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1151 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/de8f0229/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:12:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Old CPU In-Reply-To: <199803042004.UAA12062@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 4, 98 08:04:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/71847579/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:30:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 08:17:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2009 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/87256006/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 18:53:49 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> >> Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A > >The first commercial EPROM's. 256 * 8. Very likely suffering >from some form of bit rot... If >they don't have opaque stickers over the quartz windows. put stickers on *right >now*! OK, they already had stickers on them. I guess I should get these copied. >Looking at the picture, there are 8 EPROM sockets with only 4 of them >filled. Right? And what's the part number on the 40-pin DIP near >where the power harness is attached? It looks a bit incongruous compared >to the other ceramic packages on the board. Are those 10-turn >trimpots to the left of that 40-pin DIP? Yes, 8 sockets... 4 filled. The 40 pin DIP at the front is AY-5-1013 / 7502 What's a trimpot?!! I can guess. They're marked Helitrim Cw12 and have a tiny screw at the top. >Where do the three ribbon cables from the CPU board going to? I assume at >least one goes to the front panel - I'd guess the middle one. The cables go to, from left to right... 1) a male 25 pin connector on the back of the chassis 2) to a board mounted behind the control panel - full of interesting small white chips labeled Beckman 3) This is a bit tricky; a bit of this one goes to the control panel, and another bit of it to a connector on the back (25 pin) with a sticker "TTY" beneath it. 4) a female 25 pin connector just above the male one Datanumerics DL8A can be seen at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 19:05:45 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 11:53:49 am Message-ID: <9803050105.AA00742@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/3db13580/attachment.ksh From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 20:08:55 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305120855.00af6490@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:16 AM 04-03-98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: ^^^^^^^^ >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. They were marketed very strongly in Australia as office computer systems. My fading memory seems to recall that they were sold by Dick Smith (the Australian version of Tandy/Radio Shack). I convinced my father to purchase one to act as a word processor in the mid to late 70s (I think). Neat system for the time although for me it wasn't a real computer as it didn't have a front panel (admits to DECsystem-10 fetishes here :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 3 20:12:26 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803050110.LAA14071@arthur.merlin.net.au> >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. They aren't common here, but in Adelaide (South Australia) we still have a Sorcerer's User Group running. I suspect that it is entirely social, but it is there. Because Dick Smith imported them so early, it was one of (if not the) first complete microcomputer systems available here, and even then Dick Smith had a fairly large chain of stores. This gave it a major advantage over its rivals (aside from the fact that it is a pretty good system in teh first place). I also know someone who took one with him when he went to the Antartic for 12 months. :) Dick Smith, as I believe Andrew mentioned, sold a number of computers here. The Sorcerer was sold as a Sorcerer, but they also sold the TRS-80 clone he mentioned (the System 80), two Laser computers (the Dick Smith VZ-200 and VZ-300), the Creativision (the Dick Smith Wizzard), a kit computer (the Super 80), and an Apple II clone (the Dick Smith Cat). I was told the System 80 was a rebadged Laser, but I don't remember if they made TRS-80 clones, and can't find any evidence to prove that the System 80 wasn't DSE's own system. The Super 80 I believe was actually theirs, but I don't have one to check, and the Cat I assume was a rebadged clone - I have a lead on one, but I have to go collect it. :) The VZs and Wizzard were simply rebadged. After a while they just started importing PC clones like everone else. I do remember they had the one luggable, which I imagine was CP/M based, but I'd have to do some research to find out who's it was. Adam. From marvin at rain.org Wed Mar 4 19:07:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: Message-ID: <34FDFACD.628F8217@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of > California > > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older > Tektronix > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two Hi Sam, Vector Graphic was not manufactured in Santa Barbara. As I recall, it was manufactured in either Westlake Village or Thousand Oaks. From red at bears.org Wed Mar 4 19:08:33 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed some important attributions. ok r. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 20:16:39 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305121639.00a77d50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 01:56 PM 04-03-98 -0800, Jack Peacock wrote: >I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no >docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came >with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape >drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 >Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI >adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha? A TU80 is 1600bpi only and is (from a rusty memory) 25/75ips (25ips in normal mode and 75ips in streaming mode). Should work fine in a uVAX-II or -III and will be supported under VMS 5,6,7,... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 4 19:31:21 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980304193121.006c7024@pop3.concentric.net> The box says UNIX PC on the front panel and a model 7300. The 600's were dos machines as you stated. John At 06:28 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: >>At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >>>> >clone? >>> >>>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix >> >> Ward, >> >> Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week >>and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? > >More precisely, it could run either AND both. > >To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, >but not in the AT-compatible way. > >Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix >install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, >very nicely. > >The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is >descended from SImultask. > ><<>> > > > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 20:11:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards Message-ID: <01bd47dc$0933aa40$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II, all dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation for DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards work, and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors, and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mouse cable. Does anyone know if it can run some PC type monitor? VGA, MDA, CGA, multisynch VGA? I don't have any info on the connector pinouts, or the types of monitors it supports. Is it mono only or does it support color too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600? Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V7)? I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for license transfers. Thanx for any info you might have, Jack Peacock From altair8800 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 20:12:51 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <19980305021251.18812.qmail@hotmail.com> Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A and the 8800B differ? I would really like to know about all the differences in the three. Thanks very much, BOB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 21:18:11 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <9803042238.AA32182@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:38 PM 04-03-98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: >As a nuclear physicist, I find very little need for a hand calculator. >Just about all the math I need to do falls into one of two categories: > >1. Can be done on the blackboard. > >2. Needs a supercomputer to solve. Shouldn't that read "needs next year's supercomputer to solve" :-) Personally I miss my HP25. I've still got it but the battery has died and HP say that it's not economical to fix (ie cheaper to buy this year's model). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 20:21:28 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803050221.AA05593@world.std.com> Hi Andrew! I have a lead for you - Acorn BBC books and software for sale in Vic, for $5. phone (03) 9596-6454. Also, if you are intersted, I know of three computers for sale which may interest you. In Vic there is an Amstrad PCW 8512 - you probably know them, but they are word processors with CP/M compatability, reasonably common but they can be hard to come by. And in Adelaide there are two - a faulty Apple Lisa 2/10 (bad HD, possibly repairable) for $150, and a HP 9835 desktop computer, with 9" drive, software and connectors for $50. Any of these interest you? If you want the Lisa I'll have to get it soon, but I do have the original OS somewhere which I can copy off for you, and unprotect at least the system disk - however I can't do so (yet) with the apps. No rush with the HP, though. Adam. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Mar 4 20:14:48 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD540128B1CB@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> There's a chart at the bottom of the page at: http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Wood [SMTP:altair8800@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:13 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? > > Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A > and the 8800B differ? > I would really like to know about all the differences > in the three. > > Thanks very much, > > BOB > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From danjo at xnet.com Wed Mar 4 20:36:27 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Wanting to sell... (fwd) Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 05:26:24 -0500 From: shewless@bestweb.net To: danjo@xnet.com Subject: Wanting to sell... I am wanting to sell a Color Computer 2. I have the basic unit, books to it, the cassette player, the 5 1/4 floppy drive, the dot matrix printer and all cables in great conditon. Please email me if you or anyone you know would like to purchase it. Thanks, Ron Roberts --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BC From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 3 21:40:20 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: BBC software Message-ID: <199803050238.NAA22395@arthur.merlin.net.au> Sorry - I was sure the message I was replying to was not from the list, and forgot to check. :( From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 20:39:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Mar 5, 98 01:18:11 pm Message-ID: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 766 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/62977c68/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 21:01:22 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: <3.0.1.16.19980304155349.48df2ad0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34FE1582.F7B42EF3@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > >This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the > room for > >it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. > > Hi Russ, > > FWIW I went back to the place where I found the original Vector disk and > searched throught their pile of disks and came up with about 15 more hard > sectored disks. At least two of them are originals. I'll forward the info to the machine's new "Daddy" out in California. I'm sure he'll be glad to know about this. Thanks much Joe. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 21:05:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <199803050305.AA09239@world.std.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304225053.43379890@intellistar.net> At 06:39 PM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Personally I miss my HP25. I've still got it but the battery has died and >> HP say that it's not economical to fix (ie cheaper to buy this year's model). > >The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >Tim. > Tim, I have a battery spot welder and repair HP batteries (and calculators), contact me directly if you're interested in getting it fixed. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 23:12:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: References: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304231218.4cff7524@intellistar.net> At 07:48 PM 3/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >> computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer >> science even though they had no-one to teach it. > >You were lucky. I was _taught_ computer studies at school, and I failed >the exams! (That was _after_ I'd built my first homebrew Z80 computer BTW) > >> sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. >> I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my > >I wonder if there's a significant overlap between people interested in >old computers and people interested in other forms of old machinery? I think we're all tinkerer's at heart. I build RC airplanes, restore old cars, and have a building full of machine tools. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 23:27:36 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <199803042309.SAA22691@mail.cgocable.net> References: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304232736.4cffe580@intellistar.net> At 06:17 PM 3/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >> Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> > >> > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in >> > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing >> > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty >> > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. >> >> These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also >> used the Apple socket type joystick. > >Oh really? That is weird. :) I used to have *3* MBC 555 w/o HDC, >just basic 2 180K drives and maxed out one or two to 256k and played >with them until it blew up. Do you have more info about these MBC >555's and I'm bit puzzled by everyone's comments about quality, Sanyo >made those boxes that IBM put to shame in quality overall in their PC >and XT boxes. > >The power supplies is oh goody old fashioned linear type not switcher >and all bare. The fan is ball bearing type and very SILENT, I still >have this fan. The power suppply was also so weak that it died if you stuck a 8087 in the machine. I used to have to unplug one of my floppy drives in order to use the 8087. Joe From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 23:21:12 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer In-Reply-To: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > Howdy folks, > > I've spotted an ALTOS computer at WeirdStuff today. At first I thought > it was a disk drive only, but it appears to be the whole computer. > > Could someone help me identify it? I think I'll swing by and buy it > tomorrow to make sure it doesn't disappear, but right now I'm working > from memory. > > I remember seeing lots and lots of ALTOS ads and info in my old BYTE > collection (sadly, 3000 miles away from me right now), so I'm guessing > it's not all that rare of a beast. The front is black and says only > "ALTOS", and the case is metal with a faux wood-grain. (mmmm, how 70's!) > > There is one 8" floppy drive on the left-hand side of the box, one push > button (reset?), and one flat-toggle switch (Must be power). That's > it. > > It looks like your standard desktop late-70's-early-80's vintage S100 type > computer, about IMSAI-sized. Should I pick it up? It's $12.50, seems > like a rip-off to me :) Although it does have two manuals (!) with it. > A rare find in themselves, probably. The ALTOS is not an S-100 machine. But, more nearly a single board computer. I would assume that the one you describe is an 8000-? version from your description. They are Z-80 based and usually ran MP/M. - don > Although I do have an IMSAI 8080 in Connecticut (argh... again, 3000 > miles away :) my experience with S100 is very, very slim. I'm a bid > DEC fan kinda-guy, so I'll need all the help I can get :) > > -Seth > > -Seth > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 00:01:58 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? In-Reply-To: <19980305021251.18812.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A > and the 8800B differ? > I would really like to know about all the differences > in the three. Short form: (more or less) The 8800 was the original machine from MITS. Standard config was a 4 slot backplane, a rather small capacity power supply, front panel, 2mHz 8080 CPU card, and depending on when you bought it either no memory, or with a 256 byte (expandable to 1k) static memory card. No I/O other than the switches and lights on the front panel. ...and painfully small toggles on the front panel switches. And of course the 80 or so individual wires that connected the front panel to the backplane. (let's not get nitpicky... I'm just listing the base configs as I recall them. Pictures, notes, and price list images on my web pages) The 8800a was a slightly uprated version of the 8800. Same front panel and CPU card, a slightly higher capacity power supply, and longer flattened toggles on the front panel switches. (minor cosmetic changes to logo plate) The 8800b was the machine reworked for more serious (read that: business) purposes. A very much higher capacity power supply (which was made available briefly as a retrofit for the 8800/8800a systems), 18 slot backplane, a new CPU card (still a 2mHz 8080) and front panel interface board which now connected to the display (front) panel with a pair of ribbon cables, and additional functions on the front panel allowing the operator to load and display the contents of the CPUs accumulator on the front panel, do direct I/O to/from a port on the front panel, and added the option to make the data lights on the panel operate in one of three modes. 1) standard - unlatched data bus indication 2) port 377 - latched display of output to port 377 (FF if you prefer) 3) I/O - latched display of I/O to/from any port Complete new cosmetic layout of front panel. And... (to round it all out) The 8800b Turnkey. Same as 8800b but without the display (front panel) controls and lights. Front panel interface card replaced by the "turnkey" board which held a boot loader EPROM. Front panel controls reduced to run/stop switch, reset/clear switch, and a keyswitch for power. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Mar 5 01:05:49 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980304230549.00e4a800@mail.jps.net> Yes, I'm back on JPS Internet! So far, so good. Still looking for a replacement power supply OR maintenance print sets (read: schematics) for a VaxSERVER 3100 (NOT A VAXSTATION -- VAXServer -- there is a difference) so I can fix the power supply. Other than that, doing pretty good. 'The Traveling Technoid' will also be moving this month to its new home. There may be a few days where it is inaccessible. I'll post the new location here and on Infoseek. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 5 03:24:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them > started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out > what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. > Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. Ouch. As former editor of some San Diego Sanyo MBC newsletter who's name escapes me, I must protest. I thought the Sanyo keyboard was much better than the klicky IBM keyboard, and it had that one key that lights up. Plus the silver box was very cool looking in a cheap stereo kind of way. It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 08:08:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: Message-ID: <34FEB1C3.8157227B@bbtel.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them > > started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out > > what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. > > Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. > > Ouch. As former editor of some San Diego Sanyo MBC newsletter who's name > escapes me, I must protest. I thought the Sanyo keyboard was much better > than the klicky IBM keyboard, and it had that one key that lights up. > Plus the silver box was very cool looking in a cheap stereo kind of way. It's all in what you like I guess, hence people search forever for parts for the Rambler they own...The newsletter is still out - Sanyo PC Hacker's Newsletter - and it never says a thing about the Sanyo anything. I don't know why Victor Frank even publishes it anymore. The "First Sanyo Opus BBS" is still online in Pennsylvania too and it has just a few 55x specific files on it, otherwise they're invisible. Soft Sector magazine is gone but Falsoft Publishing is still very alive out this way in the Louisville area. They nearly went under with the demise of the magazine, but only due to the way they did the subscribers. They decided overnight to dump the magazine which was the bible of the 55x machines and suddenly Sanyo owners were getting a Tandy 1000 series support publication. I remember myself and thousands of other subscribers calling Falsoft and demanding a refund of the remaining prepaid subscription. We got them too. > It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other > PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to > work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the > source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo > as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. Like the first thing you had to do was to modify the power supply to keep it from tripping under the load of two floppies and the optional CGA video card/memory. Then hacking the joystick port to bring the Apple port out to the back so you could use an IBM 15 pin sub-d. Then dealing with the 8251 UART instead of the 8250 for the optional and very expensive serial port...and the list goes on. I did learn a lot with the machine though. By seeing what the IBM did and trying to get the "box" to do that taught me that I too needed to sell mine as quick as possible. I remember seeing articles in the SPCH newsletter with your name in the past. I don't remember specific things but that's good as if I did it would mean that I strongly disagreed with the article or was overly impressed. Mostly disagreed with were the ones I remember. Take care Doug. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 08:18:58 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards installed. The screen appears as such: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The prompt > is at the beginning of the second line, and this pattern is repeated in all 16 rows, save the second where the prompt appears. The upper case light and local light are on, the shift lock light is off. The keyboard doesn't respond except for the - key which is to the left of * on the numeric keypad section on the right. Next, I disconnected the keyboard cable (after powering down for a minute or so) and get the exact same result as above, less the upper case and local lights on of course. Finally (after powering off) I removed the SOLOS prom board and of course don't get the prompt > but get a new video display repeated from top to bottom of an equal sign '=' followed by a lightning bolt, this pattern repeats = then lightning bolt (I cannot reproduce the symbol) endlessly from top to bottom. I also tried a different RG62 video cable in all tests and get the same results. Thanks again for your help- Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com From jthiemann at castleton.com Thu Mar 5 08:27:11 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED2@dino.castleton.com> I think I have that card set (but not the roms - but I do have a spare ka630 board) with full instructions. I can dig up specifics over the weekend, when I'm back in Montreal. My uVaxII does have the ability to act as an X client - I tried it, I have the 3 Tk50 Ultrix distribution set (but who wants that if you can have NetBSD?) I think it can drive the GPX cards too, but have never seen it do so myself - I don't have a monitor to hook up to it. If anyone wants the cards (the GPX and the spare ka630), they're up for grabs - either for sale or trade since I'm not doing much with the VAX (I like my Sparc better) -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: March 4, 1998 22:06 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards > > II, > workstation f > boards wo > monitors > kbd/mou > > I have no clue on the rom as the microvax-II already could run > decwindows. > DECwindows is a device and services under VMS. I would not mess with > that > rom unless you fully identfy it and its use. > > The monitors conformed to the boards not the other way round the cable > carried keyboard data mouse and RGB video for the monitor. > > monitors were vr260, 290, 320. > > > Yes. > > current (V > days > for > > Most all from v4.2 and later. V5.5 would work well. FYI there is a > free > license available for hobby use to US decus members. > > > Allison From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 06:15:08 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , Doug Yowza writes >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: >It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other >PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to >work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the >source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo >as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. I once had a commission from a QC (=Queen's Counsel) to try to work out why the nice daisy-wheel printer he had bought was messing up the printout from Wordstar running on his Sanyo. After much messing around with cables, printer settings and everything else, we found that the Sanyo BIOS had a 60s or so timeout on the serial transmit, and when it timed out it would just drop the character and return, which is a little bit embarrassing when you're printing out high-powered legal documents. The first fix was to disable the 16k buffer in the printer so that it couldn't sit there for minutes at a time draining the buffer down to the point at which it turned DTR back on, but a friend at Sanyo patched the BIOS to make the timeout much longer. After that everyone was happy, except perhaps whoever was being sued by the QC to pay my bill. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From jthiemann at castleton.com Thu Mar 5 08:43:57 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED3@dino.castleton.com> While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage as the computers discussed here? I have a Korg Poly-800, Yamaha DX-7II, 2 FB-01's, CS-01, a Sequential SixTrack, 360 Systems MidiBass, and a homebrew MIDI interface to hook some of this to my Amiga. I have grandiose plans (ok, ok, not _so_ grandiose, but everything is relative these days...) to rip the 6581 out of my C64 (or better yet, find an old otherwise nonfunctional C64 and rip the 6581 out of there) and hook it up to a 68HC11 SBC I designed a few years back (the company I used to work for is still using and occasionally producing these) and controlling it (the 6581, that is) via MIDI as a cheap-o (and physically small) analog synth. (Cause let's face it, that's what the 6581 is...) BTW Any of you UK guys have collections of the old E&MM magazine? I'm missing 1 or 2 issues in the 84 (83?) season... -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. > -----Original Message----- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) [SMTP:red@bears.org] > Sent: March 4, 1998 20:09 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Demography > > > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up > photography. > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed > some > important attributions. > > ok > r. From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 09:59:08 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED3@dino.castleton.com> Message-ID: > While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who > else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage > as the computers discussed here? I have some old analog stuff : Minimoog D and an ARP Oddessy (hamfest special - do not ask about the price). Good for making noise. I also have miles of papertape to run on a PDP-8/S so the interference creates tunes. Dumb, but fun. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 10:17:19 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting > this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't > appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. > All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards > installed. > > The screen appears as such: > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. (wedged, dead, etc...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Thu Mar 5 10:30:56 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sun 2/120 (clone) available in the UK Message-ID: <01bd4854$12837620$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> >I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I >don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard, >mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards Do you still have it? Is it free :-) If yes to the above would collection be possible at the weekend if I could arrange it? Regards Pete From prp at hf.intel.com Thu Mar 5 10:47:34 1998 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography References: <199803050802.AAA03469@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed some > important attributions. > and another bassoon player, long ago. I'm 43, started playing with computers before high school. That was less common then, though maybe not for the folks on this list. My dad had a "portable" Teletype model 33 (I have it now) with an acoustic coupler modem. He had accounts on GE timesharing (BASIC) and the nearby University of Wisconsin Burroughs B5500 (I used WIPL, a little like FOCAL.) I got a BS in EE and MS in Computer Science at UW, where I ran PDP-11's etc. in the CS lab. Have mostly worked at Intel in Portland since then. No time for more bio now, but there is some more info on how I started collecting on my web site. From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 11:08:51 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Sol-20 revisited Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 11:41 AM On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting > this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't > appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. > All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards > installed. > > The screen appears as such: > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. (wedged, dead, etc...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.114131.1767.30343; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 11:41:32 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA22176; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:28 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA38986 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:20 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (0@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA29419 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:20 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (1566@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01383 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: James Willing To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 11:25:24 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> Message-ID: Well, lets see. I am 28 or so, living now in Carmel, NY (about fifty miles north of NYC), and like old things in general. Mostly. I am employed by one of the ISPs (originally the first ISP - the NSF) as an engineer. As you can probably tell by now, I tend to pick up the scraps of the network. I originally collected old radios. I had a small collection of consumer sets, some working, but dropped the hobby when two others came into my life - computers and old industrial/military electronics. The latter is simply from my consumer radio collecting days. The computers, however, probably started with the Apple II, like so many other kids in grade school. The first computer I ran into is my old DEC PDP-8/S, purchased "thru" a hamfest back in 1986. I was eyeing someone's PDP-11 boards (I was already a hamfest regular), and a man approached me with an offer I could not refuse - for $5, I could have a real, six-foot tall computer. I still have the machine. After that, I started getting others - mostly PeeCee and small mini machines. Sometimes they were pulled from dumpsters, other times they were purchased for a song. Right now, the collection consists of a PDP-8/S, PDP-8/E, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/34, Interdata 14, IBM S/1, IBM 5100, Sun 3/50, 3/60, 3/280 and 4/280, SPARCstation 370, SGI Iris 2500T, IBM RS/6000/T3B, and HP 2100A. Some machines work, some need work. There are parts of many others, but I am not counting those. I also have a bunch of ancient Sphere/SWTPC/Exorsisor stuff that I need to get rid of (I have no interest in it). Most of it will migrate to RCS/RI (so Allison can play with it). In addition to old computers, I collect old Naval radios and radar sets from the 1930s and 40s, as well as vaccuum tubes. At this point, I do not know which collection takes up more mass, as some of the shipboard radio transmitters are six foot monsters as well. Look at some of the old serials from the 1950s - they tend to show up as props in monster labs. And I do not play bassoon. I also voluteer time as part of the restoration crew on Battleship Massachusetts - a place with _real_ computers. Sorry guys, but engineering and craftsmanshipwise (is that a word?), the mechanical fire control computers are far more impressive than any of the digital stuff. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 11:52:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <199803051752.AA06647@world.std.com> < Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? < Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to < cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? < < Marty If it's a bad video ram swap it with the one next to it, if the pattern changes the ram is fried (I have tons of them). If the pattern doesn't change is likely a bad 74ls157 or 8097(74ls367). the test for a bad '157 or 8097 is to swap it with another on the board and see if the symptom changes. The fact that you've seen different patterns says the video rom is ok. Try popping out and reinstalling all the socketed parts and boards. You may have a crusty connection. Allison From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 11:59:28 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> William, I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. Thanks- Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Demography Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 12:38 PM Well, lets see. I am 28 or so, living now in Carmel, NY (about fifty miles north of NYC), and like old things in general. Mostly. I am employed by one of the ISPs (originally the first ISP - the NSF) as an engineer. As you can probably tell by now, I tend to pick up the scraps of the network. I originally collected old radios. I had a small collection of consumer sets, some working, but dropped the hobby when two others came into my life - computers and old industrial/military electronics. The latter is simply from my consumer radio collecting days. The computers, however, probably started with the Apple II, like so many other kids in grade school. The first computer I ran into is my old DEC PDP-8/S, purchased "thru" a hamfest back in 1986. I was eyeing someone's PDP-11 boards (I was already a hamfest regular), and a man approached me with an offer I could not refuse - for $5, I could have a real, six-foot tall computer. I still have the machine. After that, I started getting others - mostly PeeCee and small mini machines. Sometimes they were pulled from dumpsters, other times they were purchased for a song. Right now, the collection consists of a PDP-8/S, PDP-8/E, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/34, Interdata 14, IBM S/1, IBM 5100, Sun 3/50, 3/60, 3/280 and 4/280, SPARCstation 370, SGI Iris 2500T, IBM RS/6000/T3B, and HP 2100A. Some machines work, some need work. There are parts of many others, but I am not counting those. I also have a bunch of ancient Sphere/SWTPC/Exorsisor stuff that I need to get rid of (I have no interest in it). Most of it will migrate to RCS/RI (so Allison can play with it). In addition to old computers, I collect old Naval radios and radar sets from the 1930s and 40s, as well as vaccuum tubes. At this point, I do not know which collection takes up more mass, as some of the shipboard radio transmitters are six foot monsters as well. Look at some of the old serials from the 1950s - they tend to show up as props in monster labs. And I do not play bassoon. I also voluteer time as part of the restoration crew on Battleship Massachusetts - a place with _real_ computers. Sorry guys, but engineering and craftsmanshipwise (is that a word?), the mechanical fire control computers are far more impressive than any of the digital stuff. William Donzelli william@ans.net ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.123803.1767.30360; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:38:04 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA35718; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:27:16 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA39600 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:25:40 -0800 Received: from il1.nyp.ans.net (il1.nyp.ans.net [147.225.190.5]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id JAA12370 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:25:25 -0800 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net id AA03664 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for classiccmp@u.washington.edu); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Donzelli To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Demography In-Reply-To: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 11:58:35 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? > Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to > cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? 2102, 1k x 1bit static RAM. Still a production part. Available thru NTE and various other sources. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 5 12:16:59 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: RSTS systat. Here's the proof! It works! Message-ID: <13337299989.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Just a clip from the lineprinter: Ready sy RSTS V8.0-07 GALAXIA status at 04-Mar-98 03:06 PM Up: 5:07 Job Who Where What Size State Run-Time Pri/RB RTS 1 [SELF] Det ERRCPY 5/32K SR 1:47.7 0/6 BAS2F 2 [SELF] KB0 SYSTAT 13/32K RN Lck 1.3 -8/6 BAS2F Busy Devices: None [clip...] I've deleted most of the old accounts - The disk was at 8% free when I got it, now it's at 88% free... The accounts remaining look like they have system stuff in them, or are refrenced in the start-up files. I'm backing them up to DECtapes, then deleting them to see what happens. If it runs a month without the files on the tape, I wipe the tape. (Write nulls over it) I'm moving the 44 to school, there I'm going to attach it to the nameserver (Linux) and kludge up something interesting so that people can telnet to the RSTS without having to have accounts on the Linux box. Right now I'm working out a plan with the 23+. The move is scheduled for Monday. Fun! I get to lug the RA81 up a flight of stairs! :) Oh, and does removing the account (With REACT) kill the directory by NULLing over it, or do I have to go do something else to make sure they're gone? I did see a few accounting-type things in the [5x,*] area, so I killed them all sight-unseen. The system runs OK now... Kermit is still here, I assume I can keep that... OPSER and the batch stuff are missing, and the OS source has been removed, but if Kermit works I may be able to go find some nice person with 8.0-07 and get the files needed. I renamed the machine GALAXIA, and made a copy of the old Monitor .SIL so I can kill those too. Basically now, without some real digging, you can't tell where the machine came from. ------- From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Mar 5 12:27:20 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <13337299989.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about doing it. Well? ____________________________________________ - John Higginbotham - higginbo@netpath.net - - Webmaster - http://www.pntprinting.com - - Designer - http://limbo.netpath.net - - Follower of Torvalds - From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 12:46:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > doing it. Well? Frank Larosa of Searchlight has a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 tied to the net as a Telnet server (by way of his 486 or Pentium) at http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm Just click on the photo or use the telnet address listed on his page. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Mar 4 16:45:36 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are really quick. US$20 each, IIRC manney@lrbcg.com "Chicken Little was right!" From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Mar 5 12:51:40 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305135140.007f0bd0@netpath.net> At 05:45 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are >really quick. US$20 each, IIRC Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling the 286-386, 386-486 chips at around $100 each, but you can still pick them up cheap from stock overruns from places like Surplus Direct. ____________________________________________ - John Higginbotham - higginbo@netpath.net - - Webmaster - http://www.pntprinting.com - - Designer - http://limbo.netpath.net - - Follower of Torvalds - From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Mar 5 12:59:41 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <199803051901.OAA15684@portal.dx.net> Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are really quick. US$20 each, IIRC manney@lrbcg.com "Chicken Little was right!" > > Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean > > any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some > > systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > > 32-bit > > For various reasons, mostly related to the '100% documented PC', I have a > little kludge-board in an original AT motherboard in this PC. It's called > (IIRC) a 'Make-It 486', and contains a TI 486-a-like, the floating point > copro, and a couple of PLD chips. > > I've also got a similar 386 board that I found at a radio rally. It's > labelled 'Hyper386-SX 50/60/AT'. It contains an Intel 80386SX-16 + 3 > PAL-like things. From the name, I'd assume it would work in a PS/2 model > 50 or model 60. > > I've no idea where you'd find one, but they certainly exist. > > -tony From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 13:21:32 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: > I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. RCS/RI will be getting the bulk of it. That way, quite a few of us can enjoy it at once. The extras (I have three Spheres, for example) are being held for someone in hopes that a trade comes up. If it does not, the extras will be offered on the list. William Donzelli william@ans.net From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Mar 5 13:38:08 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/fc8ac9e9/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Thu Mar 5 13:27:09 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited References: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <34FEFC8D.3254@gamewood.net> Marty wrote: > > Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? > Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to > cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? > > Marty > > snip > > The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. > (wedged, dead, etc...) > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com Something else that would be worth looking for. There _MAY_ be a little piece of debris, solder, rosin, dust, etc that is providing an electrical path on one of the data lines from the video ram. Won't hurt to look with a magnifying glass. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 5 13:08:07 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... Message-ID: <34FEF817.7DF0@goldrush.com> Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) Stuff I got: - Timex/Sinclair 16k RAM unit with a few cassette programs for it. - Given to me, a COMPLETE IBM PC (read model 5150, the first IBM PC I think... (he had run this one until very recently when he got a new multi-media system...) The computer has dual floppy drives, a cassette port and everything! Computer, Monitor, Printer, (all IBM) IBM DOS and other disks and all manuals! (Wordstar, Microplan, BASIC, etc. etc.) Haven't powered this one up but the previous owner says drive A has problems, but once running he could work off of B. (if anyone is interested in it an willing to pick it up, I will pass it along, otherwise it will go with me to VFC 2.0 (Hey, Sam, wanna raffle off a COMPLETE GENUINE IBM PC?) What I passed up on... Mac Plus Some Atari Stuff (800, 520ST, ST floppy drive) Commodore 64 stuff (never a shortage there...) PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. I'm just waiting for the weather to improve one weekend, then the Flea Market I like will be going again... Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 13:36:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 5, 98 11:38:08 am Message-ID: <9803051936.AA03220@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/cfc8df7b/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 13:44:46 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: > > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > > doing it. Well? RCS/RI has a VAX-11/750 on the net from time to time. William Donzelli william@ans.net From archive at navix.net Thu Mar 5 15:31:18 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... CORD Russ Blakeman wrote: > John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > > doing it. Well? > > Frank Larosa of Searchlight has a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 tied to the net as a > Telnet server (by way of his 486 or Pentium) at > http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm > > Just click on the photo or use the telnet address listed on his page. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From dlw at neosoft.com Thu Mar 5 08:44:13 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803052044.OAA15787@mailbox.neosoft.com> I bought what I was told was a TRS-80 Model 2 from a guy but when it arrived it turned out to be a Model 1. CPU and monitor only. The monitor doesn't power on at all. When I hooked up the cpu to my good Model 1 monitor I get graphic chars in place of the normal text. Otherwise the cpu unit seems ok. Any ideas on what may be wrong with the cpu or the monitor? I'm not sure I'm really interested in messing with either of these items as I have a good working Model 1. I could keep them as parts, for those parts that may be good, or if someone is really interested, I could possibly part with them. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 15:19:30 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <1998Mar05.161907.1767.86230@smtp.itgonline.com> Pardon my ignorance but what is RCS/RI? Retro Computing Society of Rhode Island? Regardless, is there a web address I can visit? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Demography Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 2:30 PM > I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. RCS/RI will be getting the bulk of it. That way, quite a few of us can enjoy it at once. The extras (I have three Spheres, for example) are being held for someone in hopes that a trade comes up. If it does not, the extras will be offered on the list. William Donzelli william@ans.net ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.143059.1767.30390; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:31:00 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA15048; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:55 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA14458 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:42 -0800 Received: from il1.nyp.ans.net (il1.nyp.ans.net [147.225.190.5]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id LAA14269 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:29 -0800 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net id AA02315 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for classiccmp@u.washington.edu); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Donzelli To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 15:16:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? Message-ID: <199803052116.AA16762@world.std.com> <> > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have conn <> > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking abo <> > doing it. Well? < Message-ID: <13337333410.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [vs2k or mv-II online...] What opeating system? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:36:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 5, 98 09:18:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3910 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/c132712c/attachment.ksh From erd at infinet.com Thu Mar 5 15:28:25 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... In-Reply-To: <34FEF817.7DF0@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Mar 5, 98 11:08:07 am Message-ID: <199803052128.QAA06904@user2.infinet.com> > > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) > > What I passed up on... > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the item burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare A500 to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish I had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still there? -ethan ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. Started with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and SunSPARC parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny collection of 4004 CPUs and support chips. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:11:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 4, 98 06:39:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1007 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/e0842763/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:49:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <199803051752.AA06647@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 5, 98 12:52:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/c12fb7b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:03:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 11:53:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/3148f2db/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Thu Mar 5 15:43:03 1998 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... Message-ID: I had a working CMB 8032, and one day a couple years ago, saw an ad in the paper "Wanted: CBM 8032". A couple in their 70's placed it. The wife is a writer, and not a computer user, and only knew how to use her CBM 8032 which was 15 years old and failing. I brought my 8032 (which I had set up in my office, after it fell from a high shelf and put a dent in the hood of my car) to them, swapped it out, swapped roms (mine had some sort of add-on board) and tore-down, cleaned, and re-assemble the keyboard for them. and off they went. I think they did have all the manuals and stuff for the computer, disk drives, and printers. alas, I don't have any PET computers anymore. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:erd@infinet.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 3:28 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... > > > > > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to > > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are > improving > > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) > > > > What I passed up on... > > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. > > Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the > item > burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare > A500 > to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish > I > had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL > controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. > > Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still > there? > > -ethan > > ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. > Started > with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and > SunSPARC > parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny > collection of > 4004 CPUs and support chips. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:06:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803050105.AA00742@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 4, 98 05:05:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/1ed668a3/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 16:02:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FF20E0.FB84CAF9@bbtel.com> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... Essentially the net address directs to an outdial line at the server, and when you "telnet" you are basically connecting to the telephone lines from the internet. It takes an ISP that can provide the service and a dedicated inbound line to a BBS, or in some cases I think an ISDN line full time can handle it. I've never done it but dealved into it some when considering putting a link to my BBS (when I had it running). At $155 month for a connection from the ISP, I declined. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 16:09:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <3.0.3.32.19980305135140.007f0bd0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34FF22B5.1E3EA4C2@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 05:45 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are > >really quick. US$20 each, IIRC > > Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling the 286-386, 386-486 chips at > around $100 each, but you can still pick them up cheap from stock overruns > from places like Surplus Direct. If anyone happens to have any 286-386, or 386-486 upgrades they want to sell or see a really good price on them commercially, I'd like to know. I have an NEC APC4 portable 286 that I'd love to upgrade t 386 and I have a few friends and customers looking to upgrade their PS/2's and clones for less than the hard to find IBM upgrades. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Mar 5 16:04:44 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... > $telnet ;-) Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about others, what are you using? From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 16:10:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> OK, I've kind of settled on an approact to restoring the DL8A. I figure I'm completely unqualified to do any of this and so will rely upon advice and help from those of you who are. I think the first and most important step is to back-up the extant 1702 boot program. I've been thinking about this one (re: bit rot); would it be possible to get a disassembly of the code to see if it looks OK? It can't be too big - only 4 eproms total. Does bit rot proceed on a bit-by-bit basis, or are whole segments knocked out at a go (ie: bytes/multiples)? I presume that it will be possible to restore the boot program if there is some significant part of the eproms intact - opcodes anyway... The disassembly should give some clues as to operation of the machine, too. So, firstly I ask if anyone with a 1702 programmer who would be prepared to handle copying these 4 eproms for me to wave their hands in the air. I'll also need 4 of the 1702 eproms, so would appreciate anyone with those to also wave their hands. And finally, I'm looking for a PC based 8080A disassembler. My plan is to pull the chips and airmail them to a kind volunteer. Actually - although I don't have a lot to spend - I will be most happy to pay for the preservation (restoration?) of these data. I think its important. I do believe this machine is possibly unique; certainly rare - and worth restoring properly. I would note that the cosmetics are near flawless; this bodes well for the electronics inside, no? Cheers A From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Mar 5 16:25:11 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34ff255c.2725213@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:11:39 +0000 (GMT), you said: >> The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >> very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >> in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >> surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >> a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >All my HP20-series machines (woodstocks) have a metal spring in the >battery pack that presses the cells against the terminals in the >calculator. It will also connect a pair of normal AA cells together >without needing to spot-weld or solder them. > >You can open up the battery pack, extract the old cells and fit some new >AA NiCds in their place. Take care to get them the right way round, of >course - at least one of my packs has the polarities moulded into the >case, though. I've done that with my aged HP-21; cut the plastic battery pack open and replaced the nicads. With my HP-38, the batteries were in a metal holder and easily replaced. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 15:26:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803052044.OAA15787@mailbox.neosoft.com> from "David Williams" at Mar 5, 98 02:44:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/ef41c241/attachment.ksh From dlw at neosoft.com Thu Mar 5 08:49:11 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803052049.OAA17233@mailbox.neosoft.com> I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm thinking about going back by and picking it up. They also had a VIC-20 with the VIC version of the floppy drive which I think I grab as I don't have one of those. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 17:45:40 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 09:10:56 am Message-ID: <9803052345.AA27125@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/a8e4653b/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Mar 5 17:47:38 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found Message-ID: <64c4094a.34ff399c@aol.com> yes, i've seen one of those funky pcjr models too. i wish i had bought it just for the curiosity factor. i dont remember what brand the expansion unit was though. my particular pcjr has another drive in an external case with its own power supply and a cable going to the unit like an apple ][ In a message dated 98-03-05 18:37:23 EST, you write: << I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm thinking about going back by and picking it up. They also had a VIC-20 with the VIC version of the floppy drive which I think I grab as I don't have one of those. >> From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 17:49:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00d201bd4891$694f3ba0$1af438cb@nostromo> >Silly question of mine: what is the machine supposed to boot >from? Oh, my terminology is wrong, I guess. I've not used a front-panel machine. I guess you'd call these roms the machine's OS? Of sorts. Well... what ARE they, then? >In the first stages of bit rot, single bits go "flaky" and will not >read reliably. So the first thing to do is read the 1702A's multiple >times and see if any are going bad in this way. Of course, be sure >to save the results of each read pass... Thanks for that suggestion. Wilco. Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 18:00:25 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <00d201bd4891$694f3ba0$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 10:49:56 am Message-ID: <9803060000.AA03111@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1298 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/12787ef8/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 18:05:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00fd01bd4893$a8291920$1af438cb@nostromo> >Are there any markings on the stickers covering the 1702A windows? Only numbers identifying their position. >What do you know of the history of the machine? Was it used for data >acquisition? Was it used for industrial control? Who was the previous >owner? What might they have used it for? This from the gent I bought it from.. this is ALL i know. "Hmmm.... The DL8a came in a job lot at an auction... It came with a CRDS PDP11/23 clone, A gutted Universe, a 19" monitor, several hundred kilos of RT-11 and Unix manuals, several hundred 8" disks, and some other bits and pieces.." >The EPROM's might hold bootstrap code, they might hold software that >drive some sort of device that you don't have, they might contain >a monitor, it's hard to tell. A disassembly will make that easy(ish) to determine, surely! >Have you checked out the power supply yet? This is definitely the >first priority. No, I've not checked it - having no equipment. I don't intend to supply power to it at all until I get those EPROMS copied. So I'm thinking it's actually a lower priority. I'll check the power while the eproms are away being saved. A From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 19:19:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <199803060119.AA03075@world.std.com> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 5, 98 04:00:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/ce9f8b0a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 18:50:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803052345.AA27125@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 5, 98 03:45:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/f97ad1c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 17:24:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 09:10:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/e5773c56/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 5 19:55:51 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <34FF20E0.FB84CAF9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... > > Essentially the net address directs to an outdial line at the server, > and when you "telnet" you are basically connecting to the telephone > lines from the internet. It takes an ISP that can provide the service > and a dedicated inbound line to a BBS, or in some cases I think an ISDN > line full time can handle it. I've never done it but dealved into it > some when considering putting a link to my BBS (when I had it running). > At $155 month for a connection from the ISP, I declined. Huh? Telnet is a way to connect to other hosts on the internet. For instance, you could go: telnet wco.com and get the login: prompt for the ISP I use. telnet whitehouse.gov will get you nowhere as it refuses the connection. I think Russ may have been thinking of Telenet, which was an X.25 packet switch data service that Sprint use to offer. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 5 19:57:07 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > others, what are you using? The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available for download somewhere? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Thu Mar 5 20:53:13 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. Oh boy! Another chance to brag about my collection! :-) I'm 17, I live in Portland, Oregon, I don't have a job(that should be fixed soon, I need more computers but I don't have any money...), I might get a '70 VW Beetle for my birthday, and I have around 25-30 computers, and most of the time I can't remember them all. So here is a list: - IBM Series/1 minicomputer. 4956-K00 CPU, two 4959 expansion boxes, four 4967 hard drives, a 4963 hard drive, a 4964 8" floppy drive, a 4968 tape drive and 4969 tape drive, three 4997 racks, two 4978 terminals, a box of 8" floppies and a huge pile of manuals. I'm in the middle of converting the CPU to 110V, everything else is still wired for 220v. I plugged it into the dryer outlet before taking it apart and it seemed to work, but I couldn't get it to IPL. - Apple IIe with Color Monitor IIe(nice!), DuoDisk drive, and some Apple joystick. Came in the original box with around 60 disks and a bunch of manuals. Got it for free! In almost perfeect condition. Looks like it's been sitting in a closet for a LONG time. - Apple IIgs ROM 03, AppleColor RGB monitor(but no cord), I haven't gone to pick up the disk drive yet(I should, I got the computer in earyl January), I got it for free at the PMUG swap meet. - Laser 128(Apple IIc cone, there was a thread a while back on this list about the computer), I picked it up at a hamfest a few weeks ago for $5, which included a VTech and IIc power supply, a zenith monitor, and a Apple Monitor III. Only thing I don't like is the keyboard. - Apple Mac 512K, I have on I bought for $15, and one that I don't remember where it's from. - Apple Mac SE, got it for $1 with 4/40, the hard drive died soon after, and now has an 80MB drive that doesn't always spin up. A little bit of burn-in, but not very noticeable. Screen brightness control doesn't work. - Apple Mac IIvx 12/80/CD, got it new just before Apple stopped making it at the Computer City grand opening sale. Also got a 14" Apple monitor and StyleWriter II printer. - Apple Mac LC II, got it in trade for a 19" rack and a 486, came with 4/40, now upgraded to 8/40(found some SIMM's I thought were 256K and they ended up to be 2MB!!!), has a dead backup battery. - Apple PowerMac 6500/250 WOW! FAST! 250MHz PPC 603e chip, 48MB RAM, 3.7GB hard drive, built-in Zip drive... $2500 brand new, got an Apple 15AV monitor and MacOS 8 together for $8!!!! - Apple PowerBook Duo 270c 16/270 Nice little PowerBook. Has some wierd problem that made the speaker go dead... Works fine when in a DuoDock. - Shugart 801 8" floppy drive with nothing to do... Got it for $6 with a bunch of CP/M disks for an H/Z-89. - DEC VT-220 terminal, $2 at a hamfest, turned out to be a dead keyboard. Jumpered past a dead fuse and it works fine now... - MicroTerm Ergo 301 Funny little terminal, seems to have a power supply problem and maybe something else. VT-100 compatible, but I can't do anythign until it gets fixed. $5 at a surplus store. - IBM 3191 3270-type terminal. Kinda useless without a mainframe... Got it for free. - two leased-line 9600bps modems, virtually identical but from different companies. Got them for free. - IBM 5150 An original PC! I like the cassette port. Has a 360k floppy and 25MB hard drive, 640K RAM. Also found a 5151 monitor later. Both were free. - IBM 5160 A PC-XT! 640k/25. More slots, but no cassette port :-(. Got it free. - Leading Edge DC-2010E, another free 8088 640k/30. Even got an LE monitor and keyboard! Did I mention all three of these 8088's came from the same place? - Leading Technology XI, 386 computer I got free with a dead power supply. Jumpered past a burnt off component and it worked fine. Various configurations depending on what I wanted to do with it, I think it's water damaged now so I guess I'll dry it out eventually and get it running again. - Compaq Deskpro 386S, 5/40 came with an IBM Token Ring card and all the software. Guess where it was before it got to where I got it from!? The Trailblazers basketball team! Yikes... I hate basketball! - Alcatel Terminatel. Hmm... Some wierd French data terminal I picked up at a surplus store, I think for $10. Built in modem, cute little flip-down AZERTY keyboard... Kinda useless, but it's fun to stare at... - Epson PX-8 CP/M laptop. Fun little thing, I got it for free. Has CP/M and Wordstar in ROM. Kinda hard to use, and the battery doesn't seem to hold a charge too well. - Zenith SupersPort 286 laptop. 640k/20. Heavy laptop! Weighs about 15lbs with the battery. Turquoise backlight... - Apple LaserWriter Plus, upgraded from LaserWriter, got it for free, the toner is almost gone. Works fine otherwise, even with a part or two broken or missing... - IBM PS/2 Model 30-286 1/20, ISA bus. Got it free with a nice IBM keyboard and monitor. - IBM PS/2 Model 50Z 2/60, MCA bus, got it free(and two more with no RAM or disks) - IBM PS/2 Model 55sx 2/60, MCA bus, yet another free PS/2... - IBM PS/2 Model 80 2/70, MCA bus. I paid for this one, $50 with two ethernet cards. Huge tower, and a full-height 5.25" ESDI hard drive. - Apollo DN3500, got it and a spare CPU in trade for a Z88, he got the Apollo/HP stuff in trade for a huge PDP-11 system. Also got an IBM 8228 Token Ring MAU(I guess to go with the DomainRing network card) - TI-99/4A Funny little computer that's been around forever, my parents got it when I was a baby and I sat around all day long pounding on the keyboard :-) It's been exchanged for refurbished units probably a half-dozen times. I could always set it up in maybe 5-10 minutes, and my parents refused to even try saying it was too hard... What's so hard about plugging in a power supply and hooking it up to an RF modulator hanging from the back of a twenty year(back then it was only 10yo) old TV? - TI-83 calcualtor. OK, it's not exactly a computer. But it's close... Similair in power to my Epson laptop. I've even heard talk of putting CP/M on a TI calc. And I have seen at least one OS for it, and tons of games. Well, that's all I can remember(or see on the taop layers of all the piles ;-). -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 22:39:04 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <199803060119.AA03075@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Well I don't know of a dos based 8080 disassembler but... There are > several dos based programs that can emulate a 8080/z80 and run a any of > the existing 8080 disassemblers. I prefer MYZ80 and resource. 1k of > 8080 code is not bad. What's tough is not knowing what a given port may > do. Though guessing is possible. Actually, I've got a DOS based multi-processor disassembler that has saved my bacon on many an occasion. It is table based and came with an editor so that new processor types can be added. 8080 disassembly was one of the main reasons I bought it. If anyone is interested, I'll look up the vendor and pass it along. (can't at the moment as I'm in the process of rearranging the system that I usually run it on...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 22:40:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <199803060440.AA14252@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, David Williams wrote: > I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a > second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. > This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger > side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may > have been? As I recall, the add-on box on the top provided a place the the second floppy drive to live, and the double size side car provided connectivity to the system bus for the addition of a memory add-on that could be installed in the upper box. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au Thu Mar 5 22:57:52 1998 From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Info needed on Microbee, System 80, Pencil II, TI 99/4 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980306155752.007a5700@isd.canberra.edu.au> I need some information on some old micros I have in my collection. They are all Australian models apart from the TI, although some of them made it overseas. Pencil II --------- The sticker on the base says this machine was made by Soundic Electronics, although I believe it may have been distributed by Hanimex. I need information on the power supply. I have been told it's 9.9V DC 1A and 17.7V DC 500mA, but I need the pinouts for the 3-pin DIN socket the supply is meant to connect to. Microbee -------- I believe the DIN socket at the rear right-hand corner is a combined power supply, cassette in/out and composite video out socket. Can anyone tell me the pinouts? System 80 --------- Originally this had an RF modulator, but the one I have has been very heavily hacked. Can someone give me the pinouts for the video DIN socket? TI 99/4 ------- Note that this is the 99/4, *not* the 99/4a. Can someone tell me the power supply requirements and pinouts? It is *not* the same as the 99/4a. I *think* it may need +5, -5 and +12, but I'm not sure. Thanks in advance, | Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads | | Client Services Division | outweighs the millstone of humiliation." | | University of Canberra |___________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_| | scott@cts.canberra.edu.au | http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html | From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 6 00:07:52 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It has the standard 15pin monitor hook-up like the Mac and round phono jack. The rear looks like a Mac LC or IIci. No date mb either that I can find. Have not fired it up yet. Also got a Tandy 1000RL for twenty with kb and mouse. Got a number of manuals, tech ref's and other written goodies also from .05 to 3.00 each. Got a apple ext. 3.5 FDHD drive for free at the scrap yard but have tested it yet. A IBM 8535-312 missing the memory for $15 will fire it this weekend. Picked up a NeXt N4000B 17" monitor for 16 and a new NeXt software rel 08.30 chip with a date 1988 and serial number of 000A81. Well that's it for I got more stuff this week than I can list here for now. Keep Computing John From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Mar 6 00:46:24 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sorcerer Message-ID: <19980305224624.03128dae.in@mail.pressstart.com> Sam Ismail said: >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. I remember the first time I saw a Sorcerer. It was August or September 1979. I was just out of the Navy, working at TODD shipyards in Seattle. I was downtown and there in the front window of a computer store was a Sorcerer run a hi-res demo of liquid flowing out of a bottle. Very impressive, I wanted one. But I couldn't afford the $700-$800 I seem to remember it costing (Divorce). Well, today I have three. Two of them have their own cardboard briefcases. But I sure would like to find a copy of that demo. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Mar 5 01:53:47 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Info needed on Microbee, System 80, Pencil II, TI 99/4 Message-ID: <199803060652.RAA05274@arthur.merlin.net.au> >Microbee >-------- >I believe the DIN socket at the rear right-hand corner is a combined power >supply, cassette in/out and composite video out socket. Can anyone tell me >the pinouts? I have one of these, but I'm afraid I can't help - the version you speak of should be the Microbee 64 with the Computer-in-a-book combined disk/drive power supply etc. I only have details for the 16k version. Nevertheless I'll try digging them up and see if they help, but hopefully someone else will be able to tell you more. The manuals I have lack details. >System 80 >--------- >Originally this had an RF modulator, but the one I have has been very >heavily hacked. Can someone give me the pinouts for the video DIN socket? I can do this. :) Going on the diagram I have here, we have: 3 ---- ---- 1 / \ / | \ / | \ 5 | 4 2 where 1 is +5v, 4 is video output, and 5 is ground. I have most (if not all) of the manuals for the System 80, including some doubles here. Adam. From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 6 01:00:12 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, > well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on > box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone > else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on > the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade > Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the > bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on > the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From KFergason at aol.com Fri Mar 6 01:25:10 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <7efd593e.34ffa4d8@aol.com> In a message dated 3/6/98 1:00:49 AM Central Standard Time, dastar@wco.com writes: << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. >> Also, the original beta GS's were in //e cases. I've always wondered what happened to the 2 our company had. I don't believe Apple wanted them back. Kelly From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Mar 6 02:19:31 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: I'm back! Now, who...? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306001931.00e3bb80@mail.jps.net> OK, I'm back from JPS Internet. Neat service! Now... based on the latest digest I got, it appears that someone (I'm not clear just who it is) has some MicroVAX II GPX video boards, cable, and mouse available for trade. Please get in touch with me if these are still available. The cable alone is worth the effort for me to obtain. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 02:31:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Apple Items FS Message-ID: <34FFB460.6C661C01@bbtel.com> To update everyone, the Vector 3 has a new home and is on it's way there. I have the following Apple components for sale but will trade as well. You have to pay shipping though either way. * Apple ImageWriter II color dot matrix printer with good color ribbon and mini-din to 25 pin sub-d male adapter cable. The printer itself has a female mini-din connector. $40.00 plus shipping * Apple 5.25" external floppy drive set. Two drives that chain together, marked Drive 1 and Drive 2. Excellent condition. $25.00 plus shipping * SIMMS - 30 pin 1 mb non parity for Apple and Macs that utilize 30 pin SIMMs, not SIPPs or DRAMs. I have 8 of these. Seimens type with 5 large chips and two small chips. $8.00 for the set or even swap for 8 PC compatible 1mb 30 pin type. Items I might trade for: -CDROM drives, internal or external. IDE, SCSI or proprietary. Proprietary drives MUST include applicable adapter card. All should have any available manuals and software if possible. -Sound cards. MCA, ISA, VLB, etc. 8 bit or 16. Again, it would be best to have any available software or manuals if possible. -SIMM memory - 30 or 72 pin parity or non-parity, but MUST be useful in PC's and compatibles. I have no use for the Apple/mac types (hence the sale of the above). -486 motherboards, with processor. EMAIL directly to me for more info... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 02:38:43 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Mac 512k complete set FS/Trade Message-ID: <34FFB613.DDDE3516@bbtel.com> In addition to the previous Apple/mac items message, I also have the following fine machine for sale or trade: --MAC 512k system which includes cpu/monitor unit with original 400k internal floppy, enhanced keyboard, mouse, printer, manuals, software and applicable cables. The unit was owned by a friend of mine since new and only needs a repair or replace of the floppy drive as it's getting old and sometimes doesn't read the disk, does other times. Great condition otherwise. Entire set $75.00 plus shipping or will consider trades (as mentioned in previous) or other PC compatible parts. I'll also include text on upgrading RAM to 1mb using common DRAMs piggybacked. Contact me if interested by direct reply... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 03:55:29 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <017301bd48e6$06dd8260$1af438cb@nostromo> >Yes, you can diassemble the code, no problem. One thing to watch for is >to make sure that you know how the address and data lines on the board >are linked up. You see, all 8 data lines on an EPROM are equivalent. It >may be conventional to assign a particular pin as D0, etc, but there's >no reason that you have to. But obviously if you want to make sense of >the code, you have to know how the bits in the word are connected to the >8080. Ummmmm.... I was stunned tonight to look under the motherboard of this machine and find that it is totally wire-wrapped. Amazingly neat, but wire-wrapped and socketed - every single chip. Finding paths in this thing is going to be very very time consuming! This computer must have been extremely expensive in its day - the amount of work involved is incredible - not having made anything like it, I'm only guessing... but I'd guess many tens of man-hours. Coincidentally, I was on the hunt for another machine (Mattel Aquarius) and the owner and I got into a discussion about S100 machines - he has a garage of them, apparently (he used to design them) - and I told him about the EPROMs (1702As) and how I was going to back mine up - and he said "I have four of those things!!!" Yes, before you ask, I am going after those S100 machines :) Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 05:11:43 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: 8080A disassemblers (MSDOS based) Message-ID: <04f701bd48f0$a89db2a0$1af438cb@nostromo> >> Well I don't know of a dos based 8080 disassembler but... There are >> several dos based programs that can emulate a 8080/z80 and run a any of >> the existing 8080 disassemblers. I have found several 8080A disassemblers. They are relatively easy to find using search engines such as AltaVista - but I will be happy to forward URLs to anyone who has trouble. THere are several sites with loads of disassemblers and assemblers for all platforms. Cheers A From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 05:52:08 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <28825b06.34ffe36a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-06 02:26:00 EST, you write: << In a message dated 3/6/98 1:00:49 AM Central Standard Time, dastar@wco.com writes: << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. >> >> yes, and the upgrade cost $500. i have a magazine article about it. david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 07:41:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: References: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306074107.4157afd8@intellistar.net> At 08:11 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >> The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >> very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >> in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >> surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >> a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >All my HP20-series machines (woodstocks) have a metal spring in the >battery pack that presses the cells against the terminals in the >calculator. It will also connect a pair of normal AA cells together >without needing to spot-weld or solder them. I just rebuilt two of them yesterday. Here's a few comments. They're a lot more reliable if you put a strap across them. The spring/battery joint gets just enough corrision to make it intermitant. Particurly troublesome on the C models. > >You can open up the battery pack, extract the old cells and fit some new >AA NiCds in their place. Take care to get them the right way round, of >course - at least one of my packs has the polarities moulded into the >case, though. They all do. The markings are on the inside though. > >Don't use normal AA primary cells. These machines are designed to run at >2.5V, and a 3V battery pack can cause damage. Yes, that is the voice of >experience. Yeap, that's CMOS for you. Besides non-rechargeable batteries won't last anytime at all in calcs with LED display. Joe > > >> >> Tim. >> > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 08:10:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306081025.41571834@intellistar.net> I just bought CMB 8032 complete with a 4040 drive and CMB (rebadged Diablo 630) printer and a Novation CAT accoustic MODEM. I got all the original disks and manuals and everything else with it including the warranty papers. I got Commodore BASIC, SuperSpell, Word Pro 5 Plus, something called Jinsam and a bunch of other stuff that I haven't figured out yet. Believe it or not, I bought this from a NASA auction last week. Joe At 03:43 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >I had a working CMB 8032, and one day a couple years ago, saw an ad in >the paper "Wanted: CBM 8032". A couple in their 70's placed it. The >wife is a writer, and not a computer user, and only knew how to use her >CBM 8032 which was 15 years old and failing. I brought my 8032 (which I >had set up in my office, after it fell from a high shelf and put a dent >in the hood of my car) to them, swapped it out, swapped roms (mine had >some sort of add-on board) and tore-down, cleaned, and re-assemble the >keyboard for them. and off they went. I think they did have all the >manuals and stuff for the computer, disk drives, and printers. > >alas, I don't have any PET computers anymore. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:erd@infinet.com] >> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 3:28 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... >> >> > >> > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to >> > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are >> improving >> > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) >> > >> > What I passed up on... >> > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. >> >> Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the >> item >> burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare >> A500 >> to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish >> I >> had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL >> controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. >> >> Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still >> there? >> >> -ethan >> >> ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. >> Started >> with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and >> SunSPARC >> parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny >> collection of >> 4004 CPUs and support chips. >> > From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Mar 6 07:31:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found Message-ID: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this what you are describing? Marty From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 08:32:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: References: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> At 11:24 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> So, firstly I ask if anyone with a 1702 programmer who would be prepared to > >I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. >You probably don't need to make a copy _now_. Just make sure the EPROM >images are backed up onto something permanent (paper tape ? :-)). Then >somebody can burn you a copy in the future if you need one. He had ALSO better back it up to something newer than a paper tape, paper tape readers are getting hard to find. In fact, since 1702s and programmers for them are getting rare, I think someone should engineer a 1702 replacement out of modern ICs that can be programmed on a modern equipement. Then match the storage media to that equipment. Given the rapidly dropping cost of recordable CDs, I think it whould be worthwhile to record the code on that. They should last nearly forever. Joe From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 07:47:34 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP partial digest 346 Message-ID: <199803061347.IAA22446@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> Hi. I'm new. But enough chatter. I see Bruce Lane is interested in uVAX II GPX video boards... That brings to mind the set of VCB02 boards-cables-and-keyboards which I've got "stranded" in London after a failed attempt to get them to Rochester, NY, from mid-Scotland "on the cheap." I'd love to hear from anybody who a) can get them from London to Rochester (or even just to the USA) cheap or free, or b) is IN or NEAR London and has an interest in them and something to trade which is already IN the USA... I know this is a long shot, but hey, I had to make a grand, if weird, entrance... Chris Chiesa cchi@lle.rochester.edu From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 6 07:48:19 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803052049.OAA17233@mailbox.neosoft.com> References: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306074819.00b7b35c@ibmhelp.com> At 02:49 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a >second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. >This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger >side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may >have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm >thinking about going back by and picking it up. The box on top could be from Rapport/Racore (Racore now does routers and such), PC Enterprises (still in biz in Jersey, I think) or one other outfit. It may also have up to a 384K RAM expansion in it, as well as a 10, 20 or possibly a 30MB disk in it--but if you saw a floppy there probably isn't a disk. The sidecar could be memory, a parallel printer port attachment, or one of several other dongles that came out for jr. I had a Microsoft 128K sidecar on mine, included a bus mouse--can't remember the name of the product, and I think my wife sold it and the docs for it long ago. For what it's worth, the connector on the right side of the case is essentially a bus extension, and there were several interesting products that used it to add stuff that IBM never imagined. Some day I'll tell about the time I got a call from the PCjr team at Teledyne in Lewisburg (they fab'd the Peanut for IBM). >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw@neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 08:03:49 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Calc wars, other calc stuff, my own previous post (uVAX/GPX) Message-ID: <199803061403.JAA22459@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> Hello all... me again. I apologize for writing twice in one day, but I've requested "Digest mode" and am finding several topics I can respond to. I should've waited before sending the previous message, but will now be aware of this and will cover ALL current topics of my interest in this ONE note, to save you all the pain of seeing SEVERAL messages from me. (If you'd RATHER have several separate messages, someone just say so...) 1) Joe quotes a message quoted by someone else, in which the original author says that "... it's the HP25 that I still prefer..." Original author, whoever you are, I wanted to let you know that I have a set of original manuals and -- if I can still FIND it -- the AC adapter, left over when my own HP25 was stolen from me one day in high school -- circa 1978... If you're interested in these items, e-mail me. 2) At a Hamfest last spring I acquired a TI calculator -- I forget the model number right off; I wasn't expecting to talk about this today, but it's the programmable one that reads-and-writes those magnetic cards -- along with programming manual(s) and the external PRINTER, not to mention a fistful of the magcards. The only trouble is, instructions stored in program memory randomly get altered, i.e. the memory is no longer reli- able (hmm, just like ME!). Is it "just old," and there nothing that can be done? Or can it be repaired? Much obliged, for any info anyone can provide. 3) At that same Hamfest last spring, some guy found out I was "into" calcu- lators, HP in particular (notwithstanding that TI-whatever I'd just bought), and talked my ear off about some "latest and greatest" HP calculator that "did it all," allowing you to mix "ordinary" calculator statements, BASIC, and C syntax "all on one program line," among many other things. I have forgotten the model number, so if anyone recognizes this description and can TELL me the model number, and of course where to find out more about the thing, I'd really appreciate it. 4) My HP-33C battery doesn't hold a charge anymore; please advise. Joe Rig- don...? 5) Re: that uVAX stuff I mentioned in my PREVIOUS message: I'd be MOST inter- ested in anyone who could trade "my" stuff in London, for "his" set of the "same" stuff in the US! I can provide a more detailed itemization of what I have. Chris Chiesa From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 08:19:37 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <001d01bd490a$e69580a0$05f438cb@nostromo> >>I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >>I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >>through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. > > Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. Yes. I am fairly comfortable with sending these overseas for preservation. I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. :) What sort of reliability does well made, but 23 year old, wire wrap circuitry have? Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 09:28:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <001d01bd490a$e69580a0$05f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306092845.4e5f87d0@intellistar.net> At 01:19 AM 3/7/98 +1100, you wrote: >>>I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >>>I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >>>through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. >> >> Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >>to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. > > >Yes. I am fairly comfortable with sending these overseas for preservation. I wrote that more for Tony than you. >I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to >whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my >computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. >:) I think it would look better on your forehead. Be easier to read too. :-) > >What sort of reliability does well made, but 23 year old, wire wrap >circuitry have? Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? > No, it's more like it welds itself on. Especially if it's good wirewrapping. Joe >Cheers >A > > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 08:33:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <002801bd490c$c47e7920$05f438cb@nostromo> >>I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to >>whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my >>computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. >>:) > > I think it would look better on your forehead. Be easier to read too. :-) *makes mental note* Don't do it whilst looking in a mirror! > Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? > No, it's more like it welds itself on. Especially if it's good >wirewrapping. Oh, the quality looks superb. This is one well-made machine. Cheers A From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Mar 6 08:32:24 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <9802068892.AA889223825@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Joachim Thiemann wrote: > While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who > else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage > as the computers discussed here? I have a Korg Poly-800, Yamaha DX-7II, > 2 FB-01's, CS-01, a Sequential SixTrack, 360 Systems MidiBass, and a > homebrew MIDI interface to hook some of this to my Amiga. I have Yes, but not very enthusiastically. I've never really got into electronic music, preferring to do my composing (and most of my playing) at the piano. But, (getting a little closer to the topic) I do have a rather fun device - a Bontempi organ with a number of built in rhythms implemented in 74-series discrete gate TTL. > BTW Any of you UK guys have collections of the old E&MM magazine? I'm > missing 1 or 2 issues in the 84 (83?) season... Sorry, not something I ever read. > > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up > > photography. > > > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed > > some > > important attributions. 'Twas I, Philip Belben. For what it's worth. I don't think that bassoonists are rare enough that two or three on this list is statistically significant. Still, nice to hear from another one. (On the other hand, there is probably a strong correlation between bassoonists and eccentrics, and a stronger one between this list and eccentrics.) Philip. From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:19:26 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: (message from Tony Duell on Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:26:04 +0000 (GMT)) Message-ID: <199803061519.KAA02575@mail.iac.net> > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:26:04 +0000 (GMT) > From: Tony Duell > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 > [snip] > Well, as I said last week, these monitors are about the most dangerous > piece of classic computer equipment to repair. Apart from the video input > circuit (before the opto-isolator), everything inside them is directly > connected to the power line. It's like an AA5 radio, with the added > advantage of an EHT power supply. > [snip] I really > don't recomend this one for a novice. > Well Tony, you convinced me last week. I have this _survival_ thing going, and don't want to cut my streak of good luck short any time soon. Seems like old hardware is more available than old software and documentation. I suppose copyrights still exist on this stuff, but it seems like the web is the perfect place for old tech reference manuals and schematics. Wasn't Allison involved with the TRS-80 development? Know anyone at RS who might be able to sign off on putting this stuff into the public domain so our types can publish this documentation? --jmg From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:38:21 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: (message from Sam Ismail on Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803061538.KAA03607@mail.iac.net> Hi Sam, > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST) > From: Sam Ismail > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Old computer still accessible on internet? > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > others, what are you using? > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > for download somewhere? > Windows is an abomination. However, when I've been forced to work with it and needed a telnet I always used QVT Telnet. See: http://mirror.queen.it/cws/32term-reviews.html for reviews of various Windows telnet apps, and: http://www.frontiernet.net/~qpcsoft/ for the WinQVT home page. This is shareware, not freeware. For an _excellent_ freeware telnet, I recommend NetBSD or Linux. --jmg From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Mar 6 03:42:24 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <199803061542.JAA15237@mailbox.neosoft.com> No, this is the same depth and width but taller, this box is mounted on top. I'm going by there to pick it up later today. I'll post pictures of it afterwards on my website. On 6 Mar 98 at 8:31, Marty wrote: > I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as > system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right > hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this > what you are describing? > > Marty > > ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:44:05 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. $20 bucks. I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with Macintosh adapters? If not, what's the pinout and can I buy the DIN plug from Mouser? And hell, while I'm at it, where can I find a terminal program with x/y/zmodem capabilities? Is there anything like XIO2PC on the Atari for the Apple? Anyone know of a web page which documents DOS commands? Gee, I'm just full of questions. I'm still looking for a cheap source for DD/DD 5 1/4" floppies. The office supply store down the street wants $10 for a ten pack and I have to special order them, while $10 will get me a huge box of HD 3 1/2....grrrrr Thanks! --jmg From pb14 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Mar 6 09:31:17 1998 From: pb14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > $20 bucks. The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you get the stand? > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > Macintosh adapters? For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ The Nibble magazine disks were a good find too. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From archive at navix.net Fri Mar 6 14:04:22 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc References: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <350056C5.91DBF161@navix.net> Phil Beesley wrote: > On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > > $20 bucks. > > The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you > get the stand? I just got a //c, monitor, disk, drive, etc., also. I did get the stand with it. > > > > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > > Macintosh adapters? > > For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and > ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ > > The Nibble magazine disks were a good find too. > > Phil > > > ************************************************************** > Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport > University of Leicester > > Tel (0)116 252-2231 > E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 6 12:27:53 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: value of Sol 20 and Imsai 8080 Message-ID: <19980306182753.8215.qmail@hotmail.com> I am in the market for a Sol 20 and and/or an Imsai 8080. I would like to know what the "going" price is so that I will know how much to pay for them if they become available to me. Any opinions would be welcome. Thanks, Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pjoules at enterprise.net Fri Mar 6 11:26:55 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <199803061538.KAA03607@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <350031DE.FE1F617C@enterprise.net> J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > For an _excellent_ freeware telnet, I recommend NetBSD or Linux. > I'll second that, I run Linux as my main PC OS at home and only boot windows when I have to. At work most of my time is spent at a windows machine running a commercial package called TinyTerm to telnet into our RS6000. TinyTerm is produced by Century Software, I don't have their URL to hand. Regards Pete From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Mar 6 12:46:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Slightly on topic... tip for linux? Message-ID: <13337567556.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Does anyone know if there is a tip for Linux? (The comm program?) It had an option to go to another port if the one needed was busy. Minicom can't do that. I would like that ability, 'cause when I connect the 44 here, I'd like to have people telnet to a port and get passed straight into the DH plug, via pip, without having to have an account on the PC ------- From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 13:34:10 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> (message from Phil Beesley on Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:31:17 +0100 (BST)) Message-ID: <199803061934.OAA14624@mail.iac.net> > Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:31:17 +0100 (BST) > From: Phil Beesley > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Apple IIc > > On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > > $20 bucks. > > The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you > get the stand? Negative, no stand - but I remember them. > > > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > > Macintosh adapters? > > For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and > ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ Thanks! --jmg From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Mar 6 14:03:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From william at ans.net Fri Mar 6 14:15:03 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Finally gone... Message-ID: For quite a few years, one bit of folklore that has popped up on a regular basis is that of old IBM dinosaurs running our air traffic control system. Well, I was just wasting some (work)time now looking at some recent threads on , and it is fairly clear that the 9020s are now all gone after probably too many years of service. The interesting thing is that the machines that replaced them, 3083s, are also now considered classics. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 6 14:01:32 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803061542.JAA15237@mailbox.neosoft.com> References: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306140132.007ef100@ibmhelp.com> At 09:42 AM 3/6/98 +0000, you wrote: >No, this is the same depth and width but taller, this box is mounted >on top. I'm going by there to pick it up later today. I'll post >pictures of it afterwards on my website. > The sidecar you're describing provides an interface from the stacker box to the bus connection on the side of the jr and connects to both the stacker and the jr. It may or may not have a parallel port on it too. Did I guess right? >On 6 Mar 98 at 8:31, Marty wrote: > >> I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as >> system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right >> hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this >> what you are describing? >> >> Marty >> >> > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw@neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 14:18:04 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <002801bd493c$fb1a1d60$05f438cb@nostromo> I have the same problem, but my mail still gets to the list. Most annoying, though. A -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 7:16 AM Subject: Is this getting out? > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced >back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 6 14:26:45 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it >bounced >back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... I got that too when I posted last time, it looks like a full mailbox at someones account or a server that gets too much traffic(or too small a hard drive...). It has nothing to do with the list, withthe exception that there are probably people not getting any messages... -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 14:45:02 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <199803062045.PAA23085@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> It's getting out to ME. When you got the "full mailbag" error messages, did they show up as "return e-mail" messages? That probably means that one of the list-members who should have RECEIVED your message, had a "full mailbag" and couldn't take another message. Everyone OTHER than that guy, though, from whom you DIDN'T get an error message, probably DID get your message. Chris Chiesa "the new guy" From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 6 15:05:34 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <3500651E.1C1D@digiweb.com> John Rollins wrote: > - Alcatel Terminatel. Hmm... Some wierd French data terminal I picked up > at a surplus store, I think for $10. Built in modem, cute little flip-down > AZERTY keyboard... Kinda useless, but it's fun to stare at... Yes, that would not be much use in the States. This is a French minitel terminal. Many years ago, the story I heard was that the French telephone service decided that it would stop printing telephone directories and use the savings to set up an online directory enquiry system. They basically gave every telephone subscriber a free terminal. They also set it up so that other companies could provide information to subscribers using that terminal, with charges being added to the customer's phone bill, rather like your 900 numbers. This resulted in an explosion of services and gave FRance the first public data access system - sort of like the WWW, though much slower. France still uses the minitel system, more so that the internet because of the inertia of the existing services. They are still printing telephone directories though ;-) -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 6 14:44:18 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306144418.006c59fc@pop3.concentric.net> This unit looks as if it was assembled by Apple looking at all the labels and the painted icons on the rear panel. Hope take some pictures and put on the web. At 11:00 PM 3/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, >> well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on >> box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone >> else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on >> the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade >> Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the >> bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on >> the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It > >I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the >//gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 14:58:26 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks Message-ID: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 6 14:58:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: <199803062058.AA04069@world.std.com> < Seems like old hardware is more available than old software Thanks for the info! I appreciate it! Chris From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 15:17:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 6, 98 03:58:26 pm Message-ID: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/345df77d/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 15:50:02 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <002801bd493c$fb1a1d60$05f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 07:18:04 am Message-ID: <9803062150.AA24532@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/4cc2d072/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 6 16:15:14 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: <7efd593e.34ffa4d8@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, KFergason wrote: > << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the > //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. > >> > > Also, the original beta GS's were in //e cases. I've always wondered > what happened to the 2 our company had. I don't believe Apple wanted them > back. I have one of the early //gs prototypes. It originally was in a //e case but the person I got it from gave it to me in a //gs case. It still has a bug in the sound system as it emits this constant high-pitched shrill which is quite annoying. It's been upgraded to the 01 ROM but I got the original ROMs with it. The original ROMs are stored on three chips mounted on this funky L-shaped board that plugs into the ROM socket. I paid way too much for this at $300. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 16:34:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <9803062150.AA24532@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 6, 98 01:50:02 pm Message-ID: <9803062234.AA10338@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 806 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/9167c311/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 16:46:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks References: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35007CDD.815ED884@bbtel.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > > If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF > at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed > boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > > All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies > available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No > idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. Try MEI Micro. They run a whole lot less and aren't surplus, all brand new. Quill (office supply mailorder) also has 360k unformatted and formetted floppies at times on sale. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 16:49:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? References: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <35007D75.44072B11@bbtel.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced > back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... They're still going through, even with the mailbag error. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Mar 6 16:25:22 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980225204054.2cf78f02@intellistar.net> References: <199802252207.QAA12304@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <199803062257.QAA07451@onyx.southwind.net> > > > >> At 08:30 AM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: > >> >You know, I have a WD-1000-XX controller that supposedly can talk to > >> >these drives. It also can talk to 5.25" drives. > >> > > >> >These controllers are SASI on the 'other' end (I think). > >> > > >> >Hmmm. I don't see many SA-1000's being offered for sale . .. > >> > > >> >Jeff > >> > >> I don't know if they're SA-1000s or what but I have two 8" DDs out of a > >> Tektronix piece of gear. I haven't had time to fool with them so i don't > >> even know how many contacts there are in the connector but they use AC > motors. > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > >Oh I believe that! It seems even most 8" *floppies* I've seen use > >115vac for power. (Ummm, are you implying that you *may* have a > >couple for sale?) > > > > > >Jeff > > Well let's put it this way, I'm not using them for anything. :-) > > Joe > > Joe, Well, could you eyeball those drives and let me know what ya got? If they're the right make and model, I would be interested in purchasing at least one. Jeff From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Mar 6 17:13:37 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> what is the address at ubc ill be going dow to van soon. (what does serf stand for) chris in castlegar bc canada At 01:17 PM 06/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: >> >> http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html >> $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > >If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF >at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed >boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > >All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies >available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No >idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. > >Tim. > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 17:21:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> from "Chris Halarewich" at Mar 6, 98 03:13:37 pm Message-ID: <9803062321.AA06743@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/401bec09/attachment.ksh From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Mar 6 17:28:37 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <9803062321.AA06743@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306152837.0069171c@vader.kootenay.net> email me privatly with hour home address asnd i will stop by. thanx chris At 03:21 PM 06/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >> what is the address at ubc ill be going dow to van soon. (what does serf >> stand for) > >Surplus Equipment Recycling Facility. It's at UBC, which you can reach >by going West on 10th or 16th. Their regular sales are every second >Wednesday afternoon; Wednesday the 11th is their next sale. SERF is >on Agronomy Road inside the UBC Campus. > >If you're interested in minicomputer-oriented stuff, stop by my house >and you'll be able to cart off all sorts of stuff as I pare things >down for my upcoming move. Everything from 9-track tape reels and drives >to 14" disk packs. > >Tim. > > From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Mar 4 13:50:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Message-ID: <199803070050.TAA20528@smtp.interlog.com> On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > others, what are you using? > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > for download somewhere? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try the SBI list site at http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 19:57:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306195757.507f70da@intellistar.net> > > I'm still looking for a cheap source for DD/DD 5 1/4" >floppies. The office supply store down the street wants $10 for a ten >pack and I have to special order them, while $10 will get me a huge >box of HD 3 1/2....grrrrr The local trift stores here have them by the thousands. Don't they have any there? I still see unopened boxs of them at hamfests and garage sales. I can get you piles of used ones if you're not picky and don't mind paying the shipping. In fact, I have a couple of grocery bags of ones that are laying around here if you want them. Joe PS you might prefer the trift store pickings, there's lots of original disks in there for all kinds of things. I picked out 15 to 20 hard sectored 5 1/4" floppies, a complete set of Quick Basic, Borland Pascal, original OS disk for a Vector Graphics 4 and lots of other goodies. > >Thanks! >--jmg > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 6 14:11:41 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803070050.TAA20528@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> > On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > > others, what are you using? > > > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > > for download somewhere? > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Try the SBI list site at > http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm > > They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg > on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. > > ciao larry > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > What about Anzio Lite? This thing does the 127 ascii for the del for the backspace key correctly for the unix and vaxens and does different VT emulation really good. The cost? $25 to get free of nagware. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Mar 6 19:27:16 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: IBM's second tries Message-ID: <19980307012716.7594.qmail@hotmail.com> I got a PS/2 Model 60 and OS/2 2.0 (1992, but still classic) PS/2: a)How do I get rid of the mold inside? b)What is the PSU pinout if I want to put in a regular motherboard? c)Is there a way to upgrade the mb to 386 with <$10 and a 386 mb OS/2: a)I installed it on a 386 w/4 MB RAM (min. requirement). It CRAWLS. Should I replace the MFM HDD w/ IDE? b)Does anyone have os/2 1.x that they could send me? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Mar 6 13:47:33 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr Part 2 and VIC-20s In-Reply-To: References: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <199803070142.TAA26122@mailbox.neosoft.com> Well I stopped back by the thrift to pick up the double decker PCjr I saw yesterday and it was gone. OK, which one of you guys read my post and grabbed it. :-) Who ever picked it up left all the other PCjr stuff there, they only took the system itself. So, no pictures or other info on that PCjr. Had to settle for a couple of VIC-20s which was OK since I didn't have one yet. They seem to be two slightly different models of VIC-20s. They have different power connectors and power switches. Also pickup a VIC-1541 drive which someone added a switch to that seems to change the drive unit number from 8 to 9. One of the VICs had a cart in the back, VIC-1931 labeled Clowns which I guess is a game. Grabbed a spare Apple Disk II just because. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 20:44:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Finally gone... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306204433.5087d1b0@intellistar.net> At 03:15 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >For quite a few years, one bit of folklore that has popped up on a regular >basis is that of old IBM dinosaurs running our air traffic control system. >Well, I was just wasting some (work)time now looking at some recent >threads on , and it is fairly clear that the 9020s >are now all gone after probably too many years of service. > >The interesting thing is that the machines that replaced them, 3083s, are >also now considered classics. That's what you would referr to as using proven technology! This reminds me of a story about the HP calculators. When the HP 35 calculator came out some of the US Army artillery men at Ft. Sill saw how fast they were and their accuracy so they put in a requision to buy a bunch of them. The Department of Defense liked the idea but they had to have a feasibilty study to justify the purchase, so they spent $150,000 for a study that took two years and end the end the study did show the costs of the purchase to be justified. Next, the army went to HP to buy some HP 35s but they found out that the 35 had been discontinued and had been replaced by the HP 45. They tried the HP 45 and found that it was even better, so they requested that the HP 45 be purchased instead. Again the DOD liked the idea so they commissioned another $150,000 study to justify the purchase of HP 45s. After a year and a half, this study also found the purchase to be justified. The army then went back to HP to purchase their HP 45s and .... You guessed it, the 45 had been discontinued and had been replaced by the HP 55. So the army requested that HP 55s be purchased. The DOD commissioned a third study (only $100,000 this time, the beltway bandits had this down pat!) to justify this purchase. This time the study only took a year. Again the army personnel rushed to HP to buy HP calculators, only to find out that the HP 55 had been discontinued! The artillerymen gave up and went back to their charts and tables! Joe > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > From aaron at prinsol.com Fri Mar 6 19:54:32 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: The one that I like the best and is *free* is Tera Term. You can find it at http://www.windows95.com in the network tools section. It has been rock-solid and has a lot of nifty features, as well as all kinds of emulations. In fact, I am using it right now, via my unix box at work.... Aaron On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > > > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > > > others, what are you using? > > > > > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > > > for download somewhere? > > > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Try the SBI list site at > > http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm > > > > They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg > > on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. > > > > ciao larry > > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > > > > What about Anzio Lite? This thing does the 127 ascii for > the del for the backspace key correctly for the unix and vaxens and > does different VT emulation really good. > > The cost? $25 to get free of nagware. :) > > Jason D. > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > Pero, Jason D. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 20:55:56 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <199803062257.QAA07451@onyx.southwind.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980225204054.2cf78f02@intellistar.net> <199802252207.QAA12304@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306205556.5087b0a8@intellistar.net> At 04:25 PM 3/6/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >> > >> >> At 08:30 AM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >You know, I have a WD-1000-XX controller that supposedly can talk to >> >> >these drives. It also can talk to 5.25" drives. >> >> > >> >> >These controllers are SASI on the 'other' end (I think). >> >> > >> >> >Hmmm. I don't see many SA-1000's being offered for sale . .. >> >> > >> >> >Jeff >> >> >> >> I don't know if they're SA-1000s or what but I have two 8" DDs out of a >> >> Tektronix piece of gear. I haven't had time to fool with them so i don't >> >> even know how many contacts there are in the connector but they use AC >> motors. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> >Oh I believe that! It seems even most 8" *floppies* I've seen use >> >115vac for power. (Ummm, are you implying that you *may* have a >> >couple for sale?) >> > >> > >> >Jeff >> >> Well let's put it this way, I'm not using them for anything. :-) >> >> Joe >> >> > >Joe, > >Well, could you eyeball those drives and let me know what ya got? If >they're the right make and model, I would be interested in purchasing >at least one. > >Jeff > I'll take a look at them in a day or two and let you know what they are. I just got two more 8" drives. These are Siemens model 120-8. They're also 120 VAC and use a 50 pin card edge connector. These were spares (not original) for a Tandy 6000 so they should have a standard interface. Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 20:03:51 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks Message-ID: <75749fa1.3500ab09@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-06 16:18:31 EST, you write: << Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) >> i have ~100 i'd like to get rid of. most are dd, a few are hd. they've all been used before, but i reformatted them on a pc so they all work. they all have their jackets too. they're not worth much in money terms, but anything similarly worthless for trade would be welcome. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 20:18:53 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: IBM's second tries Message-ID: mold? if its everywhere inside, good luck! if its just the foam, rip it out. use that armor all all-purpose cleaner. wont take the colour out and cleans good. the pinout is proprietary. this is a ps/2 remember? the form factor is not AT compatible, so forget it. model 60 is 10mhz 286 with 1 meg. there are chips to upgrade to 386 from 286, but only access up to 16meg anyway. 24bit mem addressing. the hard drive is esdi type which connects like an mfm drive. can't do ide drives either. i dont know of a mca ide card. maybe aftermarket though. i have os2 1.3 never used, but i'm keeping that for archives. david In a message dated 98-03-06 20:28:14 EST, you write: << I got a PS/2 Model 60 and OS/2 2.0 (1992, but still classic) PS/2: a)How do I get rid of the mold inside? b)What is the PSU pinout if I want to put in a regular motherboard? c)Is there a way to upgrade the mb to 386 with <$10 and a 386 mb OS/2: a)I installed it on a 386 w/4 MB RAM (min. requirement). It CRAWLS. Should I replace the MFM HDD w/ IDE? b)Does anyone have os/2 1.x that they could send me? >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 17:51:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <199803060440.AA14252@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 5, 98 11:40:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1575 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/07057249/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 17:56:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306074107.4157afd8@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 07:41:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/f39c9161/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 18:46:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803061519.KAA02575@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 6, 98 10:19:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/3d4fdf9e/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Mar 6 10:25:02 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: VSchool: (Directed at kids, but adult's welcome too!) Just an idea... Message-ID: <01bd491c$6b7fee20$LocalHost@hotze> Hello. Several days ago, under the demography thread I briefly mentioned the "VSchool" concept. So, for those interested, here's what I want to do. Background info: The VSchool idea came from two needs: my need to create a virtual community, and, more importantly, the need for children (ages pretty much 6th grade-12th grade) to be able to learn at their own rate. At the subjects that they're interested in, or feel weak in. So, I then think of a place where all this could take place, actively, and freely. Now, Bahrain is far to remote to even begin to demonstrate something. Also, it's got limited resources and views. The Internet. It's used by far more than the population of any city, and equal to that of many countries. How I plan to pull it off: This is the area that I don't have to spend 50 lines telling you what CGI is and does. So, I'll use CGI (anyone got info on this?) to put up forms, (I can't program it... sorry...), and then we can make a chat room of some sort, possibly a Javascript password form. (Ok, so I'll need lots of help) So far, the best deal that I've seen in web hosting is digitalchainsaw (at http://www.digitalchainsaw.net) Anyway, we'll have two functions: Students will "enroll" (for free), and then they'll choose their area of expertise. There, they will be considered a teacher. In other areas, they'll be considered students. Teachers will work together to develop a curriculum. Then, they'll work together to teach others. I want to have a copmputer history as well as a computer interest group. I'm asking for your help. You would be considered a partner, if you wanted. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 18:11:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 08:32:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/c3ad2f78/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 22:12:48 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> At 12:11 AM 3/7/98 +0000, you wrote: >> Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >> to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. > >I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot >simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. The problem >is that the 1702 uses at least one strange voltage (a -9V supply, I >think), and if you make a mistake when building the reader you could ruin >the very chips that you're trying to save. > >The ultimate solution would be for somebody to program a 'spare' 1702 >with a known byte sequence, and use that to test the homebrew reader. A >lot of work, though. > >I am still a bit worried about sending irreplaceable chips by mail. I've >had a number of old computer bits sent to me, and AFAIK there have been >no problems - in fact the Customs haven't even opened the packages. But >murphy's law states that the package that contains those EPROMs will be >the one that's suspected of being a bomb and blown up, or the one that's >X-rayed with a sufficient dose to damage the chips, or the one that's >lost, or whatever. > > >> >> >> >You probably don't need to make a copy _now_. Just make sure the EPROM >> >images are backed up onto something permanent (paper tape ? :-)). Then >> >somebody can burn you a copy in the future if you need one. >> >> He had ALSO better back it up to something newer than a paper tape, paper >> tape readers are getting hard to find. In fact, since 1702s and > >I thought most members of this list had a pair of optical paper tape readers >fixed in their faces :-) Yes, but my optical readers never were that good to begin with and they certainly haven't improved with age :-( And the memory that it's connected to acts like a buffer, FIFO, if you know what I mean. > >Seriously, good paper tape reading machines are going to last almost for >ever - there's not a lot to go wrong with them. And I'm quite sure >there'll be _somebody_ with one in the future. Perhaps in a museum. > >I didn't mean that paper tape should be the only backup - keep a copy on >disk, on CD, on DAT tape, on whatever. Hopefully it will remain useable. >Use it as an image to disassemble, and to make replacement EPROMs. But >having a copy on a known-almost-permantent storage medium can also be useful > >> programmers for them are getting rare, I think someone should engineer a >> 1702 replacement out of modern ICs that can be programmed on a modern >> equipement. Then match the storage media to that equipment. Given the > >It's called a larger EPROM with the higher address lines tied to ground :-) Except that -9 V is still sitting there. > >2764's are so cheap now that it's worth using one as a 256 byte (or 1K, >or whatever) EPROM and wasting most of the chip. That's what I mean, just a piggy back board to change the pin out of a 2764 (or something similar) to mathc the 1702 socket. 2764s are definitely easier to find and cheaper than 1702s! > >Making up an adapter board shouldn't be hard apart from the fact that the >1702 doesn't have a ground connection. The simplest way to deal with that >is to have a flying lead on the adapter board that you solder to a 0V pin >in the computer. Hardly original, but then nor is using the 2764 in the >first place. > >I suppose you _could_ put a 9V1 zener diode in series with the -9V >supply to drop the 9V. I'd also connect a 1k resistor between the power >and ground pins at the EPROM if I did this, to ensure that there's enough >current flowing for the zener to work correctly. Maybe I'll try it sometime. > >> rapidly dropping cost of recordable CDs, I think it whould be worthwhile to >> record the code on that. They should last nearly forever. > >Hmm... I'd rather trust paper tape than a CD. And a paper tape reader is >going to be a lot easier to repair than a CDROM drive - getting spares >for those is, in general, non-trivial as I found out. And when was the >last time you saw a CD-ROM drive service manual? Good point but I can BUY a CD drive for less than it would cost me to move my KSR-33! Actually if you're dealing with a 1702, it's small enough that you can just write the code down! And paper is paper! BTW went to a surplus auction at a nearby air force base yesterday. They had some of the old familar yellow teletype paper for sale! (Hell no, I didn't buy it! I would just as soon never see another teletype!) Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 21:34:14 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <001101bd4979$eacb3ba0$21f438cb@nostromo> Well the bottom line is... I'm not an electronics guy. The option I will be following is getting the 1702A EPROMS copied and a) backed up to several media formats b) duplicated to new 1702As. >I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot >simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. >The ultimate solution would be for somebody to program a 'spare' 1702 >with a known byte sequence, and use that to test the homebrew reader. A >lot of work, though. No, this isn't a solution. I'm a software guy - I'll re-engineer the 8080A code if and when necessary, but there's no way I'm going to build hardware for this thing. I just want to copy some EPROMS... not delve into clever engineering to make them redundant! By the way, I have found several 8080A disasemblers for MSDOS. THere are quite a few websites around carrying such goodies. > Or the one that's >X-rayed with a sufficient dose to damage the chips, or the one that's >lost, or whatever. Is the X-Raying a valid problem? Will X-Rays further damage already fragile EPROMS? As I said, I may have found myself four 1702A EPROMS, the only problem here is getting the code from A to B. Maybe the ideal solution would be for me to borrow a 1702 reader and do the job over here. That way, the irreplacible EPROMs don't travel at all. Cheers A From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Mar 6 21:40:26 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3501c184.2328435@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST), you said: >On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > >> Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and >> (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about >> others, what are you using? > >The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available >for download somewhere? You might check www.tucows.com _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 6 23:46:42 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3500DF42.36C72E30@crl.com> Joe wrote: > Good point but I can BUY a CD drive for less than it would cost me to > move my KSR-33! Actually if you're dealing with a 1702, it's small enough > that you can just write the code down! And paper is paper! The monitor for my Lawrence Livermore MST-80b resides on a pair of 1702s. But I have the manual which contains a source listing ;) And the system board has an empty 24 pin jumpered socket that can be mapped to accomodate a larger, more modern EPROM *and* access the monitor from there... I assume this is the sort of thing they had in mind when providing that socket in that way. I don't wish to tinker too much with this thing, so that is something I'll probably only ever do in a real pinch. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 6 15:11:50 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <017301bd48e6$06dd8260$1af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <35006696.2557@digiweb.com> Andrew Davie wrote: > Ummmmm.... I was stunned tonight to look under the motherboard of this > machine and find that it is totally wire-wrapped. Amazingly neat, but > wire-wrapped and socketed - every single chip. Finding paths in this thing > is going to be very very time consuming! This computer must have been > extremely expensive in its day - the amount of work involved is incredible - > not having made anything like it, I'm only guessing... but I'd guess many > tens of man-hours. Actually, probably not. There were wirewrap machines which would do this in much less time (and human effort). I used to watch them on the production floor when I worked for Burroughs. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 6 23:51:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <199803070551.AA16234@world.std.com> <>I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot <>simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. Propose a slightly labor intensive but very practiceable method. Once the machine is operational step through the eporms using the front pannel and write down the data on a sheet of paper...it's only 1024 bytes. it can be then typed into another machine and stored, disassembled or whatever. Hand disassembly of 1024 bytes it's not that bad, I've done it in the past. Allison From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 7 02:08:56 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > plug from Mouser? And hell, while I'm at it, where can I find a > terminal program with x/y/zmodem capabilities? Is there anything like > XIO2PC on the Atari for the Apple? Anyone know of a web page which Try looking for a copy of ProTerm. It was pretty much the standard terminal program for the Apple 2 in its heyday. Try posting a request for this program on comp.sys.apple2 on the UseNet. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 7 05:33:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> >Propose a slightly labor intensive but very practiceable method. > >Once the machine is operational step through the eporms using the front >pannel and write down the data on a sheet of paper...it's only 1024 bytes. >it can be then typed into another machine and stored, disassembled or >whatever. Hand disassembly of 1024 bytes it's not that bad, I've done >it in the past. Just received by email from the original owner... "When I got the DL8a there were only the 4 EPROMs. Not sure what's in them though, I found the what I assume was the code in the EPROMs when stepping through memory, but I couldn't be bothered trying to disassemble it. " I guess this implies that it was probably working, and that it would be safe to power-up and step through the memory myself. Any agreement here, or is this a bad idea? Cheers A From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 7 04:01:36 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <199803071246.MAA14166@mail.enterprise.net> It appears that what is happening is that the mail sever with the fulll mailbox is looking at the From: header of the message and thus sending the 'bounce' notification the the individual posters. This is, of course, better than bouncing the mail to the list as a whole but not as good as bouncing it to the list administrator who can then drop the offending account. Regards Pete From toonsband at email.msn.com Sat Mar 7 09:10:37 1998 From: toonsband at email.msn.com (Terry Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-90 Message-ID: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? Thanks. Terry Moore toonsband@msn.com From archive at navix.net Sat Mar 7 12:18:05 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-90 References: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Message-ID: <35018F5C.30160156@navix.net> Terry: Check ou the web address in my sig below... go check it out!! We buy computers like that all the time, as well as collect the software, etc. Once at the Web site, click on Archive Software, and you'll get all the info. you need on getting that computer to me. Thanks, CORD Terry Moore wrote: > Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, > and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and > would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. > > Terry Moore > toonsband@msn.com -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 7 10:41:05 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 10:33:09 pm Message-ID: <9803071641.AA05234@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/50a7865c/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 7 11:51:41 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980307125141.0094a100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Aaron Christopher Finney typed: >The one that I like the best and is *free* is Tera Term. You can find it >at http://www.windows95.com in the network tools section. It has been >rock-solid and has a lot of nifty features, as well as all kinds of >emulations. In fact, I am using it right now, via my unix box at work.... Here's my two cents.... and it pertains! I use NetTerm -- it can be used as a standard Telnet client, and it can also be used as a standard telecommunications software (to connect to BBS's, etc.). AAMAF, it's the only one that I've found that works well with my Tandy 200 when I want to xfer files between my laptop and my WinNT box. (oh, and it does work very well for *nix boxen as well.) Hope this helps, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From jmg at iac.net Sat Mar 7 11:45:09 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: 8 bit ATARI disk compatability with standard DD/DD drives Message-ID: <199803071745.MAA15920@mail.iac.net> Several weeks ago I posted a question about whether a standard PC DD/DD drive could read/write ATARI floppy disks. I got one responce which was in the negative... however, at the time the comp.sys.atari.8bit faq wasn't available from my news server (both comp.sys.atari.8bit and news.answers). Well, it is now and I have a correct answer. Check: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/ Subject: 11.2) Can I read/write 8-bit Atari disks on an IBM-PC? There are several programs that allow an MS-DOS system to work with an Atari-format diskette. The following require a DOS and disk drive on the Atari end capable of the SS/DD 180K format: [... details snipped for brevity] Guess it's time to get DosEMU working again. ;-) --jmg From jmg at iac.net Sat Mar 7 11:59:15 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <35007CDD.815ED884@bbtel.com> (message from Russ Blakeman on Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:46:53 -0600) Message-ID: <199803071759.MAA16201@mail.iac.net> Thanks for the info everyone! --jmg > Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:46:53 -0600 > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > > Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > > > > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > > > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > > > > If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF > > at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed > > boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > > > > All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies > > available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No > > idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. > > Try MEI Micro. They run a whole lot less and aren't surplus, all brand new. > Quill (office supply mailorder) also has 360k unformatted and formetted > floppies at times on sale. From archive at navix.net Sat Mar 7 13:50:26 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Acquired Laser 50 (mail trades DO work) Message-ID: <3501A500.50206B6B@navix.net> To Greg Troutman: I received the Laser 50 in the mail today... just as promised!! Thanks a ton, and I hope you received my end the bargain as well? To the list, I posted this here just as an example that there are successful trades that take place because of the correspondance on the list. Greg got in touch with me because I posted information about some Apple cards that I had. We talked a bit, and decided this would be a fair trade, neither of us had worries that the other wouldn't come through on their side of the deal. It turns out we both sent our hardware out the next morning, and 2 days later I received mine! Boy Greg, I hope you got your ok... let me know. Anyway, that's all. Just some publicity that trades can go right, after having some bad experiences in the past, this re-opened my eyes to the possibility of doing more often. Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:08:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <001101bd4979$eacb3ba0$21f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 02:34:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/b5f899e2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:25:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803071641.AA05234@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 7, 98 08:41:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2360 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/ac26d128/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 11:58:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 10:12:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/44740f90/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:13:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 10:33:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/c7df7a13/attachment.ksh From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 7 19:00:02 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980307190002.007b3550@ibmhelp.com> What do you think? 630Q2-A2/D2 /F2 (6) USED WORKING MICROVAX 8-SIO $ 285 Davie Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Mar 7 17:21:22 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds References: <199803060802.AAA11465@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3501D675.29C1@goldrush.com> From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... >> >> Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to >> go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving >> again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) >> >> What I passed up on... >> PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. >Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. [snip!] >Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still there? >-ethan That was in Modesto, CA, (My vacation this time is closer to home). I think the proboability of those units being there are good (since most of the local 'thrifters' snag the IBM, Mac, and Amiga machines that show up). I would have gotten them myself but those PETs take up alot of shelf-space (which is limited for me cause I have several PETs already), and I was pretending to be strong (of course if it were an original PET, an 8x50 dual drive or a B-128 it would have been bought. :) That chain of thrift stores (they call themselves Thrift Center Thrift Stores) are interesting, on Wednesdays and Saturdays they have 1/2 price days and with their sometimes low prices you can pick up some really inexpensive hardware, they also strangely have been a good source for Atari 800s. Yesterday on our travels, we took off to Sacramento (California's state capitol) and discovered in our wanderings SEVERAL THRIFT STORES (Many within a square mile on just one street.) But given the time we didn't stop, *sigh*, but we now know where to look next time. We did stop at a warehouse sized used book store (on Power Inn Road) most of the stuff is discontinued school texts, some assorted stuff... Not much computer book pickings there unless you have an IBM, Apple II, or a Mac (finding quality older computer books almost the most challenging task only after finding software.) Been wandering the valley for most of this last week and plan to rest out at least today and possibly tomorrow before work on Monday. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Mar 7 17:40:47 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PET Discussion (Was: Vacation Finds) References: <199803070802.AAA20567@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3501DB03.17E2@goldrush.com> From: Joe Subject: RE: Vacation Finds... >I just bought CMB 8032 complete with a 4040 drive and CMB (rebadged Diablo >630) printer and a Novation CAT accoustic MODEM. Modems for the PET are probably the hardest thing to find (I am still looking) as they had IEEE-488 interfaces. > I got all the original >disks and manuals and everything else with it including the warranty >papers. I got Commodore BASIC, SuperSpell, Word Pro 5 Plus Wordpro was IT for PET word processors those of you familiar with Easyscript for the 64 or Plus Script for the Plus/4 would recognize the simliarity. > something called Jinsam and a bunch of other stuff that I haven't figured out > yet. Believe it or not, I bought this from a NASA auction last week. > Joe Jinsam is a database management program, and I remember the ads extolling it's use by NASA, so I don't doubt it. I read about another NASA application for PETs in an early Micro magazine (sometime in 1980) something to do with launch countdown of un-manned missiles. As I have said before, it my not have been a graphics superstar but it had the interfacing (IEEE-488 and parallel user port) for just about anything scientific. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 7 20:08:55 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980307190002.007b3550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 7, 98 07:00:02 pm Message-ID: <9803080208.AA09615@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 989 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/2d876f8b/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 7 23:48:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? Message-ID: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> <630Q2-A2/D2 /F2 (6) USED WORKING MICROVAX 8-SIO $ 285 Out of their cotton pickin minds! Way to high. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 8 01:09:35 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> Message-ID: I've had an HP IPC near the bottom of my wish list for a while, and I might be able to get one. The owner wasn't impressed with my first offer, but there may still be hope. Does anybody else have one of these? I've never actually seen one, but the thought of an early portable Unix box appeals to me. I seem to remember they ran an early (1.0?) version of HP/UX on a 68K (?) from ROM (?). Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. BTW, I also saw a Mentor Graphics box today. It said something like series 400, model 425. I vaguely remember that Mentor sold rebadged Apollos with their CAD software. I was never crazy about Apollo Domain OS from a programmer's perspective, but I do remember it being fairly innovative/interesting at the time, so I'm thinking about getting the box. Attempts to talk me out of it are warmly welcomed. Thanks, Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 8 01:31:37 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: DEC PC 100+ FS/TRADE Message-ID: <35024958.54330224@bbtel.com> I have a like new, great condition DEC PC 100+ (Rainbow?) with Seagate St412 10mb hard disk and dual floppy. One problem...NO monitor, NO keyboard. I'm sure these can be located though. The power supply case indicates a manufacture date of December 14, 1983. The unit looks as though it just came out of the box, other than the little DEC plate in the upper left corner of the front missing. The other one that says "100+" is intact though. I have no idea why this is missing. Make me an offer. Cash or trade or a combination. I'm always looking for PC components such as internal/external cdroms, sound cards, SIMMs (30 or 72 pin, parity if possible). Best offer gets this one. Email me directly. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 8 05:34:27 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <010101bd4a86$2d24c720$12f438cb@nostromo> Today I found the motherload S100 system with prototype of Signetics 2650 processor board - this board later went into commercial production - homebrew video display for the s100 system - twin floppy drives, video card, memory cards, etc. - prototype of production 16K RAM card - additional memory cards - full documentation of all work - S100 speech card - about 8 S100 disk controllers (various versions of prototypes, I guess) Heaps of 2650 software, including FORTH, ACOS (casette operating system) and about 30 other tapes chokka, too much to list. - I know it has 8080A disassembler, PIPBUG monitors, etc etc. - i have source code and listings for all these languages and OS Mattel Aquarius, with ALL software (apparently) for this machine - SCHEMATICS and technical documentation for the aquarius!! - cassette drive - printer (x 2) using colour pens, i think - various RAM and ROM cartridges Mattel Aquarius II in original box lead on an Aquarius disk drive - will chase tomorrow. prototype Aquarius cartridges, including 16K RAM, and a teletext dongle (complete) C64 grey model - Prototype (functional) C64 modem - programmer's reference guide (I was looking for one of these) 4 x 1702A EPROMS that I was after! (whoo hooo) original IBM 10Meg hard drive interesting thermal(?) printers - silver paper with Aluminium that was sparked off - have 34? and 80 column versions (80 col new in box) lots more things that I haven't unpacked yet. A good day. Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 8 11:04:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <010101bd4a86$2d24c720$12f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 8, 98 10:34:27 pm Message-ID: <9803081704.AA10725@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/b5e93f1f/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 8 14:23:46 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. Message-ID: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say "DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". Anyway, the previous owner gave me a userid and password, so I started it up - It's all menuized. Cute. The MACHINE IN USE light is burned out too. Oh - On the CE panel thee's a LAMP TEST button. It turns on ALL the lamps, not the the CE-panel lamps. Also, on power-on, you have to push LOAD to read in the bootstrap. Then supply it with a username and password. I was tld MJR was the system manager - Is that standard on all IBM stuff? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:55:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 8, 98 12:23:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1410 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/ab3064bc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:49:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <9803081704.AA10725@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 8, 98 09:04:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/155709f8/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:49:41 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU Message-ID: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, despite your warnings, I pulled my AT motherboard out of its case and put it into the PS/2 tower case. It fits reasonably well physically, but I AM having a bit of trouble with the power supply conversion. I have pretty much figured out how to wire the psu to the motherboard, but the problem is the power good line. What is it, and what would I need to hook it up to for the PSU and MB to think that the power is good? (this is line 1 of P8 on most AT motherboards) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Mar 8 13:06:47 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU In-Reply-To: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803082357.SAA19686@mail.cgocable.net> > OK, despite your warnings, I pulled my AT motherboard out of its case > and put it into the PS/2 tower case. It fits reasonably well > physically, but I AM having a bit of trouble with the power supply > conversion. I have pretty much figured out how to wire the psu > to the motherboard, but the problem is the power good line. What > is it, and what would I need to hook it up to for the PSU and MB to > think that the power is good? (this is line 1 of P8 on most AT > motherboards) Huh? What is that AT motherboard you're using in that PS/2 60? Well, There problems of card cage size and height, making new standoffs and all is not worth trouble doing. :( That is why I suggested this whole board upgrade by a company in this PS/2 60 case or different machine case that will take standard AT boards. Trust me, I have done few hackings to nonstandard cases to take standard boards, NOT FUN! Just my comments. Jason D. > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 17:39:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU In-Reply-To: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 8, 98 02:49:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/56af8bcd/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 8 18:57:21 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog Message-ID: <35253cf4.762889657@hoser> I've been revising my web site a bit recently. One of the things I've added is the entire 1978 Tandy Computers catalog which features such things as the IMSAI 8080, Sol-20, Vector 1, etc. I don't know about you, but aside from this one catalog, I had no idea that Tandy ever sold anything like this. At any rate, the whole thing has been scanned and put on my web site. I tried to keep the page images small so they don't take forever to load, but it means that you can only read the tag lines and prices. Still, the pictures and prices are fun to look at. Take a look and let me know what you think. If there is sufficient interest, I might go back and scan the pages at a higher resolution and link the bigger images to the current ones. Also, let me know if you see any glaring errors on my site; I'm still tracking down some minor formatting problems, but most of it should be fine. Just pick the "classic computers" link on the first page and go from there to see the catalog. Hope you enjoy looking through it as much as I did! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 19:47:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU Message-ID: <19980309014757.7461.qmail@hotmail.com> I think you guys were right after all. It's a futile endeavour. I just trashed the AT case and the entire PS/2 system except the drives, cards, and ribbon cables. I couldn't stand it anymore. I will pick up another case, there's plenty left that are not necessarily PS/2. The thing did have an expansion card that had 2 MB RAM on it, I will ship it to anyone who wants it. > >The power good line is a signal from the PSU to the motherboard that >indicates that all the PSU lines are at the right voltages. If you can't >find a suitable signal on the PS/2 supply, then try connecting it to a >+5V line (red wire, normally). That should get the machine running. > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Mar 8 20:45:40 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <01bd4b05$72eb8800$LocalHost@hotze> >> > original IBM 10Meg hard drive >> >> Did IBM make this? I thought it was Seagate... > >Well, there certainly were Seagate/shugart (I can't remember if it was >after the name change...) drives with 'IBM' moulded into the front panel. >I have a few lying about... Yeah, but it could also be a Winchester drive, (external?) I think that it was the first hard drive to use technology still used today. >> >> Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) >> > >-tony > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 8 22:17:48 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Daniel, Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are original disks for the S 34. Joe At 12:23 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over >first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my >head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say >"DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" >But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase >reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". >Anyway, the previous owner gave me a userid and password, so I started >it up - It's all menuized. Cute. The MACHINE IN USE light is burned out too. >Oh - On the CE panel thee's a LAMP TEST button. It turns on ALL the lamps, >not the the CE-panel lamps. Also, on power-on, you have to push LOAD to >read in the bootstrap. Then supply it with a username and password. >I was tld MJR was the system manager - Is that standard on all IBM stuff? >------- > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 8 21:51:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <01bd4b05$72eb8800$LocalHost@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 9, 98 05:45:40 am Message-ID: <9803090351.AA10134@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/cceb94ad/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 8 21:59:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog Message-ID: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> References: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Doug, At 01:09 AM 3/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >I've had an HP IPC near the bottom of my wish list for a while, and I >might be able to get one. The owner wasn't impressed with my first offer, >but there may still be hope. > >Does anybody else have one of these? Yeap, I have two of them. I love them. > I've never actually seen one, but Then go look at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp9807.htm". >the thought of an early portable Unix box appeals to me. I seem to >remember they ran an early (1.0?) version of HP/UX on a 68K (?) from ROM >(?). Only a ****VERY*** minimal system was run out of the built-in ROM. Usually HP-UX was run from an external hard drive or the built-in floppy drive. There was a plug-in ROM available that contained a complete HP-UX system. It was called the "Software Engineering ROM". It was optional and VERY rare. Disk based BASIC was available for the IPC and was also available in a plug-in ROM. > >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! Joe > >BTW, I also saw a Mentor Graphics box today. It said something like >series 400, model 425. I vaguely remember that Mentor sold rebadged >Apollos with their CAD software. I was never crazy about Apollo Domain OS >from a programmer's perspective, but I do remember it being fairly >innovative/interesting at the time, so I'm thinking about getting the box. >Attempts to talk me out of it are warmly welcomed. > >Thanks, >Doug > > From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Mar 8 22:23:44 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> References: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 >but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are >original disks for the S 34. Yep, it has a big 8" drive up front, almost identical in appearance to the floppy in my Series/1... >I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over >first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my >head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say >"DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" >But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase >reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". Hehe... I love all those warning labels... They are EVERYWHERE! Maybe I should try counting all of them that are in my S/1. BTW, I'm almost finished converting the CPU on my S/1. It runs on 120V now, I tested it a few minutes ago, now all I have to do is replace the blower fan and put it back in the rack. And then on to the disk drives... And I have a System/34 question... How do you tell which model it is? I've looked at the labels I could find on the S/34 at a local museum, but I couldn't find anything. Just the 5340 signs. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 8 22:45:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Terminals FS/Trade Message-ID: <350373D5.1C3CBC39@bbtel.com> Have three older terminals, condition unknown but in good physical shape. They go to the big mainframe in the sky if I don't get an interested party by March 15th.... Digital VT100, no keyboard Digital VT220, no keyboard Visual 102 with keyboard I'm going to ask $5 for each plus shipping to more or less cover the time involved in packing and running these to the shipper, but otherwise they're here and awaiting some interested foster home to contact me about them. Neither weighs a lot but due to the glass crt they aren't featherwight either. COntact me directly. I'm in the process of finishing my new shop and these are NOT going into it and taking up much needed space. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 8 22:45:50 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog In-Reply-To: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> References: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35276c26.774971590@hoser> Well, the return address on the catalog (which you may be able to read in the scanned image on my web page) is "Tandy Computers, 1500 One Tandy Center, Fort Worth, Texas 76102". Somebody at Tandy must have thought they sold these systems! There's an order blank included, and you could order by phone or by mail. Inside the back cover is a complete TRS-80 system. The catalog also includes the (then standard) array of electronic parts and books carried by Radio Shack. I bought my TRS-80 in the Radio Shack in North Platte, Nebraska; as I recall, certain regular stores (i.e. not "Computer Centers") also got the TRS-80 early on. Take a look at the catalog (www.inetnebr.com/~bill_r), and then tell me I'm crazy. My primary purpose was not and is not to prove whether or not any machines were actually shipped (although I would be interested to know for sure), but to find out if anyone else has ever seen this catalog. This is the only copy I've ever seen. So you were involved in the RS repair centers, huh? I about drove them nuts because I bought one of the very early "Expansion Interfaces" with disk drives and memory in it, and it ended up going back to the repair center in (if I remember correctly) Des Moines at _least_ ten times because of problems with bus noise crashing it. When it started out, it had just a plain ribbon cable between the EI and the CPU. Then they added the "buffered EI cable", and finally, the little DIN connector hack along side the buffered cable, which seemed to actually fix the thing. They had the thing more than I did for the first year; they always kept it for like 3 weeks, then sent it back and it still didn't work. After the first round of that, I started having the store manager help me unbox it and set it up right in the store to see if it was fixed. If not, back it went. I ended up on a first-name basis with a couple people at the repair center (when I wasn't calling them worse things ;-). Finally, out of total frustration, I called Tandy's home office, and after fighting my way through many layers of assistants, receptionists, etc, I found myself talking to (I swear it's true) Charles Tandy! I told him the whole sad story, explained that I loved the machine, but I was at the end of my rope on the whole deal, and wondered what he thought I should do. He said he would look into it and see what was going on. I thought "Yeah - right", but later that day I got a call from the repair center manager who apologized profusely for all the trouble, told me that they had gotten a new fix for the problem, and that my computer would be back and working right within a couple of days. I later got a letter of apology for the experience signed by Mr. Tandy; I wish I knew where it was - it might be in my old TRS-80 boxes. (I was 14 at the time, and you don't think about hanging on to things like that at that age.) And in a bit of Twilight Zone, I got a call from the former manager of the Radio Shack store a couple of days ago; he had moved to Lincoln, Nebraska several years ago as I did, and knowing I work a lot with computers, he thought I might be able to help him with a Windows 95 problem he was having. <*argh *thud> I have the old TRS-80 voice synthesizer (the case is a particle-board box, spray-painted "TRS-80 silver"! Wonder how many of those they sold?), the voice recognition unit (with the CB-style "push-to-talk" microphone), the X-10/Plug-n-power interface, and the original modem. I once met a man at the University of Rolla, Missouri, where I was taking a summer class, who showed me how he had reverse-engineered the TRS-80 system ROMs and discovered a multi-tasking kernel built in. I took the information home and tried it out, and it was true! All you had to do was load a machine language routine into memory, and then call the "start task" address with the address of your routine and its priority in the correct registers. There were also "suspend task" and "kill task" functions. A friend and I wrote all kinds of weird little things, like an on-screen clock that was always displayed, no matter what else was running, subliminal message programs, etc. Do you know if anyone else has ever published this feature? Yikes - sorry - got a little long-winded... On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:59:34 -0500, you wrote: >Now it's possible that one of the independently owned dealer stores held >and advertized other machines. Even the Radio Shack computer centers >didn't start opening until the beginning of 78. The trs-80 was mid '77 >and Tandy did nothing in computers before that. > >Allison -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 00:04:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, tapes or anything else included. Joe From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 8 23:58:22 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. > > Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 00:02:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog In-Reply-To: <35276c26.774971590@hoser> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > Well, the return address on the catalog (which you may be able to read > in the scanned image on my web page) is "Tandy Computers, 1500 One > Tandy Center, Fort Worth, Texas 76102". Somebody at Tandy must have > thought they sold these systems! There's an order blank included, and > you could order by phone or by mail. I've found that I can still buy parts from Tandy for GRiDs that I've had for years. Give them a call, order the IMSAI by part number, and see what happens! -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 00:07:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in > printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these > computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's > a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, > tapes or anything else included. I was thinking about getting one of these myself, and I checked and found both ribbons and tapes still available (I think it was on Epson's Canadian site). I don't think there's a bid enough market for these things to come up with a pricing guide. Most people still give this stuff away for free since it's worthless to them. I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. -- Doug From gzozman at escape.ca Mon Mar 9 00:48:42 1998 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: TRS-90 References: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Message-ID: <350390CA.BF1743FF@escape.ca> Terry: If you still have the Model II available, I would be more than happy to add this machine to my collection. I would be willing to pay a nominal amount for your time to package the system up; does $50.00 sound reasonable? In addition, I would pay all shipping costs, and would pay you with a US money order. Please let me know if this is agreeable to you. Thanks! Grant Zozman gzozman@escape.ca Terry Moore wrote: > Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, > and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and > would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. > > Terry Moore > toonsband@msn.com From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 02:11:02 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Matell/Radofin Aquarius II pictures up Message-ID: <001f01bd4b32$f56c37c0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The hitherto unseen Matell Aquarius II machine is pictured on the top menu option on http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/ Enjoy! A PS: I have TWO Aquarius II machines. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 05:55:21 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <007901bd4b52$3d91aac0$2ef438cb@nostromo> I'm surprised the IBM drive caused such comment. All I was re-iterating was what the guy said "an original IBM 10Meg drive" - and as I saw IBM embossed on the front black plastic cover part, I figured thats what it was. It's just a 5" or so hard drive, and nothing special. Unless I'm mistaken, which is possible, as I don't know my stuff! Add to the list from the other night a mint Z80 Big Board II Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Motherload >> >> > original IBM 10Meg hard drive >> >> >> >> Did IBM make this? I thought it was Seagate... From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 05:57:57 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics Message-ID: <008401bd4b52$9aad6be0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The beast runs OK, just a couple of LEDs out on the front panel, it seems. A brief brief play showed stepping through worked OK - will play with it more, later. At least the PSU is OK - next to check the EPROMs. Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:12:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <00aa01bd4b54$92f97540$2ef438cb@nostromo> >> > S100 system with prototype of Signetics 2650 processor board >> > - this board later went into commercial production >> >> Who sold it, out of curiosity? >> >> I remember a _Radio-Electronics_ (or was it _Popular Electronics_?) article >> from '76 or '77 that had construction plans for a 2650-based machine. >> I don't remember it being S-100 based, though. I will put the whole story up on my website as soon as I can. The design was published either in Electronics Australia or ETI, and basically the gent was ripped off. However, he told me they sold perhaps 100 of these boards. I have lots of software for it, both on floppy and casette!! and this includes... wait for it.... an 8080A emulator. Bizarre. Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:32:23 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <00c201bd4b57$6b7660c0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The 2650 card is called a SBC-2650, and the manual does not mention the vendor, but does mention Microbyte as the supplier of the software (eg: ACOS operating system). >> - S100 speech card >By who? Votrax, by any chance? Nup, board is labeled "Electric Mouth - 1 NETRONICS R&D Ltd. (c)1981" >> 4 x 1702A EPROMS that I was after! (whoo hooo) >Well, if you run out of these, they're readily available here in >North America, at $1.95 each, from Jameco Its not so much the value of them, but that I wanted some and *there they were* Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:42:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: what are these cards? Message-ID: <00d801bd4b58$c4004840$2ef438cb@nostromo> I picked up two cards rather than having them trashed. They're approximately square in size about mmmh....20cm to a side. I counted about 73 or 74 pins on the connector on one side of each card, the other side a solid block connect. The 1st card is labeled "Q050 DUAL TVT" and has a MCM2708(?) eprom and a 10 pin output port, whilst the 2nd is labeled "Q025 16K RAM". Were these worth rescuing? I can do images if really necessary. Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 07:46:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> At 12:07 AM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in >> printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these >> computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's >> a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, >> tapes or anything else included. > >I was thinking about getting one of these myself, and I checked and found >both ribbons and tapes still available (I think it was on Epson's Canadian >site). I don't think there's a bid enough market for these things to >come up with a pricing guide. Most people still give this stuff away for >free since it's worthless to them. > >I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an >HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. > Doug, I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 07:49:04 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309074904.47670342@intellistar.net> At 11:58 PM 3/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. >> >> Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! > >FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days ago. Joe From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 9 07:09:09 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: WTB: Tandy 2500 XL Message-ID: <01bd4b5c$8cc5f560$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. I just read about a Tandy 2500 XL with a 286 10MHz, 2MB RAM, MS-DOS and DeskMate GUI built into ROM. So, if anyone has one of these that they'd be willing to part with.... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 07:54:47 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <199803041649.LAA83684@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3503F4A7.3F859AAF@cnct.com> Les Berry wrote: > > >Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black > >fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly > >as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. > > Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black > inserts, etc.) Check for the suffix WGS after 6300. The 6300 WGS (_much_ more PC compatible than the original) had that color scheme, the original had a mostly black front. Does it have the DB-25 video connector? I'll accept an interim color change that I might have missed -- I only dealt with AT&T equipment when the WGS systems were just appearing and the original 6300 and 6300+ had been discontinued -- but the store kept so much old stuff in inventory that I shouldn't have missed anything like that. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 08:47:21 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <350400F9.7B21D0F4@cnct.com> John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: > >At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: > >>> >clone? > >> > >>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix > > > > Ward, > > > > Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week > >and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? > > More precisely, it could run either AND both. I guess I should have mentioned that, I just didn't think of it. Just like I _could_ cripple this machine I type on and run Windows 95 (or NT), but Linux does what I want. > > To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, > but not in the AT-compatible way. > > Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix > install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, > very nicely. > > The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is > descended from SImultask. Merge is directly descended from Simultask, which is why I remembered it as DOSMerge (later OSMerge, then Merge) 1.0. When I first played with it on a customers machine, SCO had just brought out VP/ix, which at the time (1989-90) was superior. Things changed during the next couple of years. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 09:19:29 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <35040881.DC3931C0@cnct.com> Well, everybody else has been tossing bio's in here, so what the hell. I'm pushing 43, recently married for the third time (second time from the government's POV), my wife and I have about 50 computers kicking around (not sure about the status of some of Lisa's little handhelds that she keeps buying because they're "cute"). I didn't start out planning to collect obsolete computers, but I have this problem about throwing things away. I got involved with the TRS-80 not long after I got out of the USAF in 1978. Wound up working for Tandy from 80-86 is training/tech support at the retail level. Accumulated a few systems during those years. Hooked on Unix from the first (pre)release of Xenix for the Model 16, so these days I'm a sysadmin (AIX usually) presently between contracts. Coco 1/2/3, 4p, Mod 2, 6000HD, Mod 100 (3)+DVI, 1000TL/2 are what I have now -- have owned two Mod Ones, two Mod 16s and a Tandy 2000 in the past, but as Ben Franklin said, three moves equals one fire and I've moved more than three times. Have three AT&T Unix PCs, two work and the other is parts. A Sun 4/360 with Solaris 2.4 that I'm trying to get Linux working on. Atari 68k boxes, a 520 ST and a 1040 ST. Several TI 99/4A machines, one still shrink-wrapped -- my wife credits a cassette-based algebra tutorial for that machine with getting her through the math requirement so she could get her nursing degree. Miscellaneous Intel boxen that I mostly run Linux on, though there are a couple that are mostly lab rats for whatever I feel like doing to them OS-wise. Who knows what I'll come back from the TCF with this year? I've without doubt left a few off this list, as they aren't all where I can see them from here. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Mar 9 09:17:33 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. Message-ID: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Daniel, > > Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 > but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are > original disks for the S 34. > > Joe I don't know about Daniel's machine but every System/34 I've ever seen does. It takes them either singly or in "magazines" of ten diskettes. I recommend that anyone with a S/34 tries to get hold of some of the empty magazines - or even full ones. AFAIK, IBM's idea was you kept yor software, backups etc. in magazines, unless it was 3 disks or fewer. I imagine most people did what people nowadays will be forced to do - keep the disks in conventional boxes and load the magazines immediately before insertion into the S/34. Philip From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 09:33:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338318829.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It uses ONLY 8" floppies! What do you have origionals of? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 09:36:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13338319434.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Model # of S/34?] Mine is written on the IBM shipping info card floating around on the inside. But I forgot what it was. BTW, This thing is not too heavy! I pushed it across the room by myself without too much trouble, just to see if I could do it. You can move them, provding there's not stairs involved... ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 9 09:51:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: value of Sol 20 and Imsai 8080 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980309095102.00998eb0@pc> "Bob Wood" wrote: >I am in the market for a Sol 20 and and/or an Imsai 8080. A few weeks ago, a couple Altair systems on ebay.com went for more than $1500 each. However, an IMSAI was recently sold for $126 on comp.os.cpm. Prices are all over the map, from $0 to $1500 it seems. Aren't you the guy who's always posting messages to newsgroups, saying you're looking for these machines? Are you a collector or an arbitrageur? Judging by author profiles at www.dejanews.com, it looks like you deal in all sorts of collectables. Can you tell us more about your business? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 09:57:36 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338319434.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > BTW, This thing is not too heavy! I pushed it across the room by myself > without too much trouble, just to see if I could do it. > You can move them, provding there's not stairs involved... That just mean it has good casters... Not heavy? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 10:26:31 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Wanted for the "carcass" Message-ID: It looks like I am now the proud owner of a LINC-8 carcass - stripped of everything but the front panel, backplane, scope, supplies, and core stack. The LINC-8s are interesting machines in that they are a PDP-8s (staight-8s) with strapped on LINC processors. They were made for a few years in the 1960s until the PDP-12 came about. I am looking for ANY of the small DEC Flip-Chips in the R, S, B, G, A, or W category (I do not yet have numbers). These are much smaller than the more common modules found in later PDP-8s and -11s, but still have the familiar plastic handles found on the M series boards. These have no ICs on them, but may have weird looking hybrid grey SIP packages (at least I have seen some on R107 modules). Any leads would be appreciated. Thank you. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Mar 9 11:09:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Off on my travels... Message-ID: <9802098894.AA889492565@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I have, at some what short notice, been told I am going to Taiwan tomorrow (for two weeks). :-( I shall be able to redirect my e-mail, but past experience of such things shows that I usually get my list subscription forcibly set to "postpone" after about a week under such conditions. However, (and this is the real point of the message), I shall probably have some space for souvenirs on the return journey. Does anyone on the list know of _any_ Taiwannese computer equipment which could be considered a classic? (Preferably not a PC clone!) Philip. From lfb107 at psu.edu Mon Mar 9 11:54:06 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803091756.MAA67824@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> At 08:54 AM 3/9/98 -0500, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >> Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black >> inserts, etc.) > >Check for the suffix WGS after 6300. The 6300 WGS (_much_ more PC >compatible than the original) had that color scheme, the original had >a mostly black front. Does it have the DB-25 video connector? I'll >accept an interim color change that I might have missed -- I only >dealt with AT&T equipment when the WGS systems were just appearing >and the original 6300 and 6300+ had been discontinued -- but the >store kept so much old stuff in inventory that I shouldn't have >missed anything like that. I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of the drives in the system. Sorry the above is so confusing. Les >-- >Ward Griffiths >Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? >WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 9 07:36:49 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <007901bd4b52$3d91aac0$2ef438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803091827.NAA02873@mail.cgocable.net> > I'm surprised the IBM drive caused such comment. > All I was re-iterating was what the guy said "an original IBM 10Meg drive" - > and as I saw IBM embossed on the front black plastic cover part, I figured > thats what it was. It's just a 5" or so hard drive, and nothing special. > Unless I'm mistaken, which is possible, as I don't know my stuff! > > Add to the list from the other night a mint Z80 Big Board II > > Cheers > A > A sightly clue: IBM always makes hard drives black. Is your 10mb juset natural finished ie bare metal? If so, this is not IBM's. More likely: CMI, Seagate common usually or Tandon? Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 14:05:30 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Not too heavy?] No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are air. ------- From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 14:55:39 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > [Not too heavy?] > > No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are > air. Well, that is true. Most big IBMs are that way. IBM still managed to use some very heavy parts - heavy gauge steel chassis, big stiff transformers, and disk drives with really big motors. Still, once a computer tips the scale over 300 or so pounds, I consider it heavy. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 9 15:35:43 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: References: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980309153543.008e4340@ibmhelp.com> At 03:55 PM 3/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >> [Not too heavy?] >> >> No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are >> air. > >Well, that is true. Most big IBMs are that way. IBM still managed to use >some very heavy parts - heavy gauge steel chassis, big stiff transformers, >and disk drives with really big motors. > >Still, once a computer tips the scale over 300 or so pounds, I consider it >heavy. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > Heavy? Not if you add the optional System/34 Transport Attachment (shoulder harness/hernia belt), IBM PN 74G5666. Sorry, couldn't resist. David dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon Mar 9 17:27:35 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <19980309152735.161afdda.in@mail.pressstart.com> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:50:19 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell said: Tim said about bit-rot >> In the first stages of bit rot, single bits go "flaky" and will not >> read reliably. So the first thing to do is read the 1702A's multiple >> times and see if any are going bad in this way. Of course, be sure >> to save the results of each read pass... Tony replied with: >With _most_ EPROMs, bit-rot causes 0's to turn into 1's, but not the >reverse, since the fully erased (=discharged) state of the chip is full >of FF's. Thus if you start to detect flakyness, you read the chip n times >and logically AND the dumps. This is not hard to do given another >computer, of course. Tony, this didn't sound right to me so I looked it up and my book is saying that 1702A (and the 5204) erase to all 0s. Is this wrong? And I thought I'd pass along this neat table that I found on DataI/O web page while looking for device code for my Series 22. I reduced it on the xerox machine and taped it to my programmer. DEVICE DECIMAL DECIMAL HEX HEX HEX SIZE NO. BITS ADDR RANGE NO. BYTES CHECKSUM(1) =========================================================================== 2708 1K X 8 8K 0 ---- 3FF 400 3FC00 2716 2K X 8 16K 0 ---- 7FF 800 7F800 2732 4K X 8 32K 0 ---- FFF 1000 FF000 2764 8K X 8 64K 0 --- 1FFF 2000 1FE000 27128 16K X 8 128K 0 --- 3FFF 4000 3FC000 27256 32K X 8 256K 0 --- 7FFF 8000 7F8000 27512 64K X 8 512K 0 --- FFFF 10000 FF0000 27010 128K X 8 1M 0 -- 1FFFF 20000 1FE0000 27020 256K X 8 2M 0 -- 3FFFF 40000 3FC0000 27040 512K X 8 4M 0 -- 7FFFF 80000 7F80000 27080 1024K X 8 8M 0 -- FFFFF 100000 FF00000 2048K X 8 16M 0 - 1FFFFF 200000 1FE00000 4096K X 8 32M 0 - 3FFFFF 400000 3FC00000 8192K X 8 64M 0 - 7FFFFF 800000 7F800000 (1) Represents the checksum of a blank EPROM where memory locations contain FF hex. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 18:00:47 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? 2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, and I am interested in something that had a processor that interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) These are for my personal investigations, but I have a feeling that many new ideas have been tried before to some extent. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 9 19:16:13 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history References: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3504945D.3A174E65@crl.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. > 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? Hmm. Corvus Omninet? -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From david at mather.com Mon Mar 9 19:08:36 1998 From: david at mather.com (David Mather) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199803100114.RAA31427@mxu4.u.washington.edu> > > No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are > air. > ------- It was built that way so they could sell them to businesses who in those days wouldn't believe that a smaller box was a proper computer. David From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 9 19:47:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803100147.AA26655@world.std.com> <2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD < machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? Too broad a question. What is a desktop system? I can come up with several that might surprize you. <3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly < unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am < interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, < and I am interested in something that had a processor that < interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing < (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) IS there one or three questions in there? yes there have been some very unusual machines like transputers, connection machines, vector processors, Turing machines. the latter half of your question is too broad. My z80 s-s100 crate would qualify as the OS was distributed over several z80s but only on had the user interface. The Vax-11/780 had a qbuss PDP-11 as a diagnostic fromt pannel. An xterm on an eithernet to a server could even qualify. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 21:41:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. > 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? I think one of the first cards IBM produced for the PC allowed it to be used as a smart terminal for their mainframes. Does this count? > 2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD > machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? GRiD used to have a modem based service called GRiD Central. AFAIK, the GRiD Server was a little box that let you have your own local area GRiD Central. It was basically a fileserver for GRiD-OS, I think. > 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly > unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am > interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, Sure, quite a few neural nets were implemented in hardware. Hecht-Neilsen (sp?) comes to mind as somebody still in that biz (I think). Interesting tid-bit: Carver Mead is famous for many things, including implementing an artificial cochlea in silicon. I've heard that he couldn't find anybody very interested in commercializing this invention, so he used the technology to produce one of those "glide pads" used in notebook computers today. > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing > (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) It used to be fairly standard practice to have an I/O processor separate from the main processor, if that's what you mean. > These are for my personal investigations, but I have a feeling that > many new ideas have been tried before to some extent. Unless you're looking to make a fortune licensing patents, why would that stop you from doing anything? -- Doug From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 9 22:24:00 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <19980309152735.161afdda.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Mar 9, 98 03:27:35 pm Message-ID: <9803100424.AA12978@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980309/10d9f95b/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 22:26:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803100147.AA26655@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > yes there have been some very unusual machines like transputers, > connection machines, vector processors, Turing machines. Nobody has ever made a Turing machine (it's that nasty infinitely long tape that keeps getting in the way), but that reminds me of something I've been looking for. Didn't Danny Hillis make a computer from TinkerToys (TM) as part of his PhD thesis or something? I've been looking for the schematics.... -- Doug From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Mon Mar 9 22:24:18 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? Message-ID: Well, without changing the blower motor or fuses, I plugged in my newly rewired 4967 hard drive. I turned it on, the power supply made that electrical buzzing noise that big PS's do(and a 220v motor in the background running at half speed), then the drive started to spin up. Is there a miniaturized jet plane in there? ;-) Anyways, it starts up(power light comes on), and then after about 10-15 seconds there is a clunk sound and the drive kinda shuts down until it tries again about 20 seconds later(or maybe because I turned on the CPU). I'm not quite sure what ti think. I haven't bothered taking it apart yet(too much work to get the PS/controller unit off). Anyone have any ideas, or know someone who would? --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 23:57:37 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he > decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or > will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies of the tech ref. BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. -- Doug From go at ao.com Tue Mar 10 00:20:07 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Searching for HW manual for HP card reader Message-ID: <199803100620.WAA18016@office.ao.com> I'm looking for a manual (hardware / service / etc.) for an HP "9869A Calculator Card Reader". Just for clarification, this is a 50 pound table-top beast from the mid-70s that seems to be a full 80/40 column hollerith. Has 117v primary and a 34pin "ribbon" ("centronics-style") connector for I/O. I can probably make it "go" without docs, but it will be easier to repair and adjust if I have the specifics. Of course, the usual offer of payment for copies or (preferably) originals is in effect. Thanks for any info, Gary From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Mar 10 01:35:23 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: VAXServers (6 off) FREE in Vermont Message-ID: <3504ecdb.124223393@mail.enterprise.net> Found in comp.os.vms: >Hello all, >We have several (currently 6, more to come) VaxServer 3100's that >we have retired from service. They had been doing Macintosh file = >serving, >for the last 5 years and have been replaced with NT boxes. >Our current options are either 1) find them a good home, 2) send them >to State Surplus Equipment, or 3) throw them out. >I can offer them FREE to anyone who wants them, PROVIDED you >arrange to either pick them up or have them shipped to you at no >cost to us. >Also available are a couple of Storage Expansion units for these boxes, >a few VT320's, and 3 TLZ04 tape drives. >The 3100's are rather minimally configured, nothing beyond the base >memory (8MB? maybe 16MB?) and a relatively small hard drive >(250MB?). I'm not primarily a Vax person, so I'm not sure what other >information anyone might need, but feel free to ask. >These machines do work. They came out of service between September >and now, and were under DEC service agreements until June 30th, 1997. >We intended to donate them to a sister college, who later decided they >didn't want them, and we tried a used equipment dealer who didn't want >them either. >If anyone's interested, please reply to me by email. If we don't get = >rid >of them by the end of next week, the whole lot goes to State Surplus. >Tony Harris >Network Administrator >Community College of Vermont >harrist@mail.ccv.vsc.edu From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 01:54:50 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980309140237.4de73eb2@ricochet.net> At 07:46 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an >>HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. I hate to say it, but there is a market for them, (one of which is right here) and $40 for a machine as described (assuming it works) is rather on the cheap side. Probably closer to $75, maybe even $100+ if you put it up for auction on eBay. Something tells me I should really be tracking what I pay for my machines... I guess I'll start doing that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 01:54:54 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980309140605.4de74092@ricochet.net> At 07:49 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >>nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... > > That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to >buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days ago. [I missed the beginning of this; I apparently got booted off the list.*] I too am looking for one, and would gladly take one for free. Depending on my financial circumstances at the time, I would even pay for one. *Not being one to know when I'm not wanted, I promptly signed up again. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 10 06:18:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> <>Hello all, < <>We have several (currently 6, more to come) VaxServer 3100's that <>we have retired from service. They had been doing Macintosh file = <>serving, <>for the last 5 years and have been replaced with NT boxes. I wrote him in the hopes of securing them, vermont it not far to go. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 08:16:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310081610.467f5e26@intellistar.net> Doug, I'll let you know if he decides to sell. I think he's considering it. These are NICE units. They were used as controllers in some kind of survielence (sp?) systems so they were enclosed inside of another unit and have never been handled and they look like new. The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I might get one just to add to my documentation library. Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? Joe At 11:57 PM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he >> decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or >> will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? > >Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't >know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory >expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell >these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, >so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies >of the tech ref. > >BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in >Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). >I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an >HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was >attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and >large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. > >-- Doug > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 08:22:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980309140605.4de74092@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310082235.467fec24@intellistar.net> Roger, Was it your mailbox that filled up and was bouncing messages all over the place? Did you get the NEC books yet? Joe At 01:54 AM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:49 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>>FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >>>nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... >> >> That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to >>buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days >ago. > >[I missed the beginning of this; I apparently got booted off the list.*] > >I too am looking for one, and would gladly take one for free. Depending on >my financial circumstances at the time, I would even pay for one. > >*Not being one to know when I'm not wanted, I promptly signed up again. 8^) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From aaron at wfi-inc.com Tue Mar 10 10:55:06 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: The free VAXen Message-ID: Hi, Pardon someone fairly new to the cult of VAX, but what are the differences between the VAXstation 3100 and the VAXserver 3100? Is it like Suns, where is is just the same machine without framebuffer and monitor? My only VAX (so far) is a VAXstation 3100 m38, and I'm finally starting to understand why there is such a religious user base for them. Also, Allison, which model is the guy giving away? Please let me know when you get them and what condition they were in, I'm really interested. 6/7 of my freebies have turned out to be expensive-to-ship parts boxes, the only real exception being a Sun 3/50 that was magnificent (complete with memory expansion board). Regards, Aaron From archive at navix.net Tue Mar 10 09:56:18 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 References: Message-ID: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net> Boy, I really am enjoying these discussions of the old Epson laptops. I just picked up an Epson HX-40 a couple of weeks ago, so this series now has a special place in my 'interest catagory'. FYI, Sam Ismail, in response to my post a couple of weeks ago requesting information on these things, said he too saw an Epson HX-41, and like the one you saw, was attached to a large machine... a lathe I believe. Doug or anyone else: do any of you have any of the interchangeable RAM chips that were used by these. My HX-40 boots up on a chip that has some pharmacy software on it... used for ordering via modem, etc. I am curious to see what other stuff was for these things. When I take the chip out, it boot's to standard CP/M. Well, all for now... CORD Doug Yowza wrote: > On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > > > I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he > > decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or > > will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? > > Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't > know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory > expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell > these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, > so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies > of the tech ref. > > BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in > Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). > I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an > HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was > attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and > large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. > > -- Doug -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 09:20:44 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: > 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly > unusual architecture? Yes. Lots. Most of the time the weird architectures could be found on very old machines (standard joke - everything was done in the 1950s) and reborn later on. For example, the upcoming Merced, while being trumpetted as truely revolutionary, uses some of the dataflow techniques found in the few old Multiflow Trace supercomputers. In general, the unusual stuff dies early. > What I am looking for is twofold: I am > interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing IBM mainframes (actually most mainframes) work this way. The users use the I/O processors more than the central processors, except when the big batch jobs are run. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 09:24:44 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, without changing the blower motor or fuses, I plugged in my newly > rewired 4967 hard drive. I turned it on, the power supply made that > electrical buzzing noise that big PS's do(and a 220v motor in the > background running at half speed), then the drive started to spin up. Is > there a miniaturized jet plane in there? ;-) Anyways, it starts up(power > light comes on), and then after about 10-15 seconds there is a clunk sound > and the drive kinda shuts down until it tries again about 20 seconds > later(or maybe because I turned on the CPU). I'm not quite sure what ti > think. I haven't bothered taking it apart yet(too much work to get the > PS/controller unit off). Anyone have any ideas, or know someone who would? Perhaps is the drive motor not spinning fast enough (because it may be a 240V type as well, now only getting 120V)? If it can not get up to speed, well... Maybe if I am bored tonight, I will take a look at one of mine. William Donzelli william@ans.net From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Tue Mar 10 09:35:59 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803101535.KAA03263@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> William Donzelli writes: > In general, the unusual stuff dies early. That's a very interesting statement, but if you think about it it's both "exactly backwards" and "exactly true." Stuff becomes known as "unusual" precisely BECAUSE it "dies early" -- and is therefore not around to become "commonplace!" Dinosaurs are extinct today BECAUSE they died out 65 million years ago... Chris Chiesa cchi@lle.rochester.edu From lfb107 at psu.edu Tue Mar 10 10:20:51 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <199803101622.LAA32226@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> At 08:16 AM 3/10/98, Joe wrote: > The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I >might get one just to add to my documentation library. There are two of them each about 250 pgs. > Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try >it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW >is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) >BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the >monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? Don't really see one. HX-20's came with 16k and I think the expansion doubled that to 32k. It looks like the command "STAT ALL" should give you what your looking for. Les From naamato at wooj.merit.edu Tue Mar 10 10:36:57 1998 From: naamato at wooj.merit.edu (Nick Amato) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: DEC 5500 In-Reply-To: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net>; from Cord Coslor on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:56:18AM -0800 References: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net> Message-ID: <19980310113657.30258@wooj.merit.edu> Hi all, I'm more of a lurker than a poster. I enjoy lurking, though. :-) I have the opportunity to snarf a DEC 5500 for free. This is a refrigerator-sized Q-bus machine that runs an old version of Ultrix (which is 4.2 BSD based). There are several cages of disks in the package. Supposedly, around 2 GB total storage. And, a few DECprinters (9-pin dot matrix). And, I'm told that it boots. Has anyone had any sort of experience with one of these? Nick From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Mar 10 10:56:52 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <01IUHWNW8D929EDV1F@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW > is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) > BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the Yes. The Monitor dumps you into a machine language monitor of all things. But even stranger, BASIC drops you into a BASIC interpreter!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Mar 10 11:30:38 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 10, 98 07:18:33 am Message-ID: <199803101730.JAA05180@fraser.sfu.ca> > <(TM) as part of his PhD thesis or something? I've been looking for the > Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310130452.44ff8904@intellistar.net> Les, Thanks for the info. I'll try STAT IBFO and see if it works. Are you going to get a copy of the tech ref? If so, I'd like to get one too. Joe At 11:20 AM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:16 AM 3/10/98, Joe wrote: >> The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I >>might get one just to add to my documentation library. > >There are two of them each about 250 pgs. > >> Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try >>it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW >>is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) >>BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the >>monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? > >Don't really see one. HX-20's came with 16k and I think the expansion >doubled that to 32k. It looks like the command "STAT ALL" should >give you what your looking for. > >Les > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 13:27:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said "Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. It had model 5271 marked on the back. Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 10 12:42:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35058992.DA434F67@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said > "Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. > I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive > with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. > It had model 5271 marked on the back. > > Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer > AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner > said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. I have 2 of the 3271's which are essentially 5160 XT with added network equipment. Anyone interested in buying one or both? The AT store controller is again another stock machine with options (like an Impala with extra goodies is called an SS) in that it was made as part of a point-of-sale system from a 5170 platform. I sold 50 of those two years ago after I had gutted certain useless (to the average "Joe") cards and made them into 5170 AT's. Sears in Chicago dumped them for $10 each and I sold them at roughly $25 each, in no time flat. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 13:43:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310134342.396fcd12@intellistar.net> I found an Amstrad PCW-8256 word proccessor this morning. It uses CF-2 floppy disks. Are these the same small disks that everyone was looking for a few weeks ago? Joe From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 10 13:02:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Yes I know but it has been done. Back when shift registers were commonly > available with lengths of 1024 bits it was very trivial to string a few > and get really long serial memory. With moden megabit rams it's not that > much more difficult. The tape was not so much the problem but the > programing... It's been a long time since I've looked at a CS book, but I remember the Turing machine as a *theoretical* machine that reads and writes symbols on an *infinitely long* tape. I'm sure somebody could build an approximation of this, but the main interest in the Turing machine is that it is used as the definition of computational "power." One of theories is that no machine built today, or at any time in the future, no matter what the architecture, will be able to compute anything that a simple Turing machine cannot compute.. I think that's basically a long-winded way of saying that all computing machines are state machines, and the Turing machine was basically a device that helped visualize the mechanical realization of a state machine. Once you actually build one, however, the "tape" is no longer infinitely long, so the machine suddenly has limited computational power, and the theorem no longer applies. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:13:27 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Phillip, Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I just reformat tem for use in my machines? Joe At 03:17 PM 3/9/98 GMT, you wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 >> but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are >> original disks for the S 34. >> >> Joe > >I don't know about Daniel's machine but every System/34 I've ever seen >does. It takes them either singly or in "magazines" of ten diskettes. >I recommend that anyone with a S/34 tries to get hold of some of the >empty magazines - or even full ones. > >AFAIK, IBM's idea was you kept yor software, backups etc. in magazines, >unless it was 3 disks or fewer. I imagine most people did what people >nowadays will be forced to do - keep the disks in conventional boxes and >load the magazines immediately before insertion into the S/34. > >Philip > > > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 10 13:11:04 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >It had model 5271 marked on the back. Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. > > Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer >AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner >said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. Yup, that's a POS box. I think the Albertson's grocery chain here in Oklahoma still use them. At the stroke of midnight every day, all their registers go offline for about 15 minutes and the managers and cashiers scream back and forth at each other. That's the first sign that IBMs are in use. > > Joe > > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 13:14:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338621166.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Format suspected S/34 disks?] What's the labels say? What are your machines using 8" disks? ------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:23:12 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338318829.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> At 07:33 AM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >It uses ONLY 8" floppies! What do you have origionals of? >------- > Here's a partial list. This is the stuff out of two boxs, there are 7 or 8 more boxs that I haven't gone through. I *think* these codes identify the disks, that's a lot of other stuff marked on them but it's batch numbers, dates, etc. Let me know if you know what this stuff is. Almost all of the stuff is dated 1977. IDENT. APOPTF2 FCPMR1 IDENT. PM2PTF2 FCPMR1 IDENT. APPUO1 IDENT. FCPML1 IDENT. FCPMU2 IDENT. FCPMU1 IDENT. FCPMS1 IDENT. APPUO1 IDENT. SYSDMP IDENT. FCPM02 SYSTEM TEST DISKETTE LEVEL A 34AX SYSTEM PARITY VERIFICATION IDENT. FCPM03 IDENT. FCPMS2 IDENT. FCPMU1 IDENT. FCPMS0 IDENT. APPU01 IDENT. FCPMS1 IDENT. FCPMS2 Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 10 13:46:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... Message-ID: <3505987F.136B1C9B@bbtel.com> To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them (swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon before I bury them in my storage building for a while. Contact me by direct email please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 13:38:21 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338625519.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> SYSDMP is a SYSDMP disk. That's a core dump. SYSTEM TEST ... is obvious. The rest look like they could be diags or something... DO you have something capable of reading them? ------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:49:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310144926.405784a4@intellistar.net> At 01:11 PM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >> This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >>"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >>I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >>with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >>It had model 5271 marked on the back. > >Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA >cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard >to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. Let me know what these parts look like and I'll grab them for you if you want them. I think I know which one is the display adapter. (Does it have a small red shaft sticking out? Looks like a miniture circuit breaker?) Is the keyboard adapter external or internal? If it's external, then it's already off the machine but I might be able to find it if you give me a description. Joe > >> >> Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer >>AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner >>said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. > >Yup, that's a POS box. I think the Albertson's grocery chain here in >Oklahoma still use them. At the stroke of midnight every day, all their >registers go offline for about 15 minutes and the managers and cashiers >scream back and forth at each other. That's the first sign that IBMs are in >use. > >> >> Joe >> >> > > > >Thank you, > >David Wollmann >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ >-- > >Support for legacy IBM products. > >Data, document and file conversion for legacy >IBM file and media formats. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:52:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338621166.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310145217.405f411a@intellistar.net> At 11:14 AM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >[Format suspected S/34 disks?] > >What's the labels say? I just posted a list of a *few* of them. >What are your machines using 8" disks? 2 Tandy 6000s and Intel MCS 80/85. I have some more 8" drives so I may hang one on my Altair. Joe >------- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:57:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338625519.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310145759.513f3a46@intellistar.net> At 11:38 AM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >SYSDMP is a SYSDMP disk. That's a core dump. >SYSTEM TEST ... is obvious. There are some other system test disks in the other boxs also. > >The rest look like they could be diags or something... >DO you have something capable of reading them? Nope. Joe >------- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 15:11:19 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of these? BTW A friend of mine has a digital clock made my MITS. How rare are they? Joe From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 14:11:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310145759.513f3a46@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338631568.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [S/34 disks] You obviously don't want to nuke the diags disks. As far as the other lables, do you have anything like SSP on those lables? ------- From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 14:18:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer > made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It > has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to > represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin > chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses > incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it > looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of > these? Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things were not digital at all! William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 14:24:48 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I > think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I > just reformat tem for use in my machines? By all means they are worth preserving. The S/3x family of machines were a major player in the mini market in the 1970s and 80s (and now, if the AS/400 is included). William Donzelli william@ans.net From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 14:34:26 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980310113357.3eef2f70@ricochet.net> At 04:00 PM 3/9/98 PST, you wrote: > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing > (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) Godbout (CompuPro) made a processor board that had both an 80286 and an 8085. I know, because I worked on such a system in the early 80's. Meanwhile, in that same box, the disk controller had a Z80 on it. (I am *so* sorry I didn't go back and snag that system after we (the employees) left en masse due to not having been paid for several months.) In the early '80s, I felt rather strongly that the ideal system would be based on a z8000 (or 80x86 if you must) for number crunching and general processing and a 68000 for graphics and interface stuff. Put in two processors and let 'em do what they're best at. Still feel the same, only these days its the '586/'060 combo (or whatever the latest is). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 14:34:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980310114143.3eef3e0c@ricochet.net> At 08:22 AM 3/10/98, you wrote: > Was it your mailbox that filled up and was bouncing messages all over the >place? I sure hope not! If it was, I truly apologize! But I download mail everyday, (although on weekends I don't always get to read it right away.) I did get the NEC stuff. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From peacock at simconv.com Tue Mar 10 14:57:21 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <00ff01bd4c67$1f220e70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >> and I am interested in something that had a processor that >> interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing >> (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) The earliest machine I know of that did this on a large scale was the 6000 series from CDC, starting with the CDC 6600 in late 60's, designed by Seymour Cray. The main CPU was a superscalar 60 bit processor with no I/O instructions or ports, just memory. All I/O was handled by PPUs (peripheral processor units), which if I recall were 24 bit CPUs, (very hazy recall here) using an older CDC 924 type instruction set. The PPUs had direct memory channels into the main CPU. The operating system posted messages to the PPUs for I/O requests. The PPUs were not user programmable, but could be programmed at the system programmer level. More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O functions. I vaguely recall someone made an S-100 board with an 8089 on it (was it Godbout?) but it never caught on. Jack Peacock From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 10 15:27:04 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <00ff01bd4c67$1f220e70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part > of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O > functions. Even more recently, Intel is pushing their I2O architecture for PCs. The basic idea, I think, is to let the Pentium do the general purpose computing, and use a dedicated 960 running VxWorks to do the I/O. -- Doug From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Mar 10 15:45:40 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free to a good home - VT320's Message-ID: <3505b1ac.174616250@mail.enterprise.net> I thought this might be of interest to the Brits on the list. I have asked him for a couple of them so leave some for me :-) Regards Pete On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:48:15 -0000, in comp.sys.dec "Jeff Chambers" wrote: >I have 11 VT320's surplus to my requirements, which are free to a good >home - ie not for resale by a broker. > >My only requirements are that this is a UK offer (I am Leicestershire based) >and the prospective owner(s) collects or arranges carriage. The least hassle >you offer me the better chance you can have one/them! > >Jeff > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 10 15:53:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> <> More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part <> of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O <> functions. And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). In 81 I started a system using multiple z80s and 8085s to do things like disk IO and loosely coupled multiprocessing (using z80s). When I had it up and operational it could outrun a dos powered 386/20. Slave procesors and distributed cpus are not new. One favorite is the PDP-12, a PDP-8 with a linc-8 as a peripheral. The PDP-10 used PDP-8 as an IO processor or later ones used PDP-11s. Even the Microvax-II disk controller had a T-11(chip version of a base PDP-11). Allison From go at ao.com Tue Mar 10 16:25:48 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803102226.OAA30090@office.ao.com> Sure thing. I have one of those beasties. Before I could afford a good oscilloscope it seemed like a nice way to bench-test some digital (DTL & TTL) circuits. Modified mine with connector for the cable attachment to the box so I could plug in different IC clips for different sized components. Also could use it as a pretty dumb "logic analyzer" with a cable that had clips or probes on each pin. It never worked very well for dynamic circuits (not surprising) but I did get a lot of use from it while breadboarding. Gary At 03:18 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer >> made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It >> has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to >> represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin >> chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses >> incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it >> looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of >> these? > >Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things >that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things >were not digital at all! > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue Mar 10 16:50:06 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Samsung S300 Message-ID: <19980310145006.003b3fe4.in@mail.pressstart.com> Anyone famillar with a Samsung S300? The e-mail address is julief@nytimes.com. >Dear Mr. Coward, >Just visited your museum web site. Very nice. Unfortunately, it didn't >contain the information I was seeking, namely, the retail price of a >Samsung S300 back in 1988. I'm with the New York Times and I need the >information for a story I'm working on. If you have an idea where I can >look, please message me. Otherwise, good luck with your museum. >Cheers, >Julie Flaherty ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 10 16:33:33 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> References: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310163333.009797d0@ibmhelp.com> At 02:13 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >Phillip, > > Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I >think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I >just reformat tem for use in my machines? > If you want I'll trade you some new 8" diskettes for the S/34 diskettes. I think I can still get the 8" "flippy" style that can be used as either 1 or 2D--otherwise I'm sure I can scrape together a box or two of IBM disks that have already been archived. That way you have your disks, and I can dump the S/34 stuff to a CD-ROM and add it to the archives. We never get any IBM requests for the S/34 stuff anymore, but I'd still like to be able to make it available to museums and collectors. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 16:50:50 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.161907.1767.86230@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: > Pardon my ignorance but what is RCS/RI? Retro Computing Society of > Rhode Island? Regardless, is there a web address I can visit? Yes, you are correct! Basically started by a few locals (I live in New York - not exactly local!) as a loose organization of individuals interested in seeing the old systems live on thru the age of the PeeCee. It has grown quite a bit, and now is incorporated. We still act as a bit of a computer commune, as we chip in for the rent and other expenses at the "Mill", a room in an old factory we rent. Some of the machines at the Mill are owner by members but available to all. Most, however, are considered RCS/RI property. We tend to go for the big iron, but we do have quite a few micros as well. Every month or so we do have an open house, generally on a Saturday. I will post information about it, for any locals on the list. General work sessions are just about every other Saturday. Our web site (although in need up some updates - actually lots of updates!) is at . William Donzelli william@ans.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 18:19:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: <199803102226.OAA30090@office.ao.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310181959.32bf639c@intellistar.net> Gary, When did these come out and what did these cost when they were new? Just out of curiousity. Looks like it would make a nice accessory piece for someone with a SwTPc (or my Altair :-). Joe At 02:25 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >Sure thing. I have one of those beasties. Before I could afford a >good oscilloscope it seemed like a nice way to bench-test some digital >(DTL & TTL) circuits. Modified mine with connector for the cable >attachment to the box so I could plug in different IC clips for different >sized components. Also could use it as a pretty dumb "logic analyzer" >with a cable that had clips or probes on each pin. > >It never worked very well for dynamic circuits (not surprising) but I >did get a lot of use from it while breadboarding. > >Gary > >At 03:18 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer >>> made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It >>> has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to >>> represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin >>> chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses >>> incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it >>> looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of >>> these? >> >>Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things >>that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things >>were not digital at all! >> >>William Donzelli >>william@ans.net >> > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 17:42:14 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? Message-ID: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> When I get my RSTS online publicly, would I be correct in saying I am the only RSTS/E PDP-11 on the internet? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 10 18:19:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? In-Reply-To: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 10, 98 03:42:14 pm Message-ID: <9803110019.AA16834@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/2d57ec86/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 14:06:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803100424.AA12978@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 9, 98 08:24:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/3f182e28/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 17:24:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 10, 98 04:53:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 787 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/e9047fc0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 14:32:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310134342.396fcd12@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 10, 98 01:43:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 487 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/1d5a0eb5/attachment.ksh From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 10 21:03:51 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <004e01bd4c9a$7401ee00$5769420c@francois> Do they have the service manuals for the CPC et al too? If so I would be interested in the 6128 manual. What are the coordinates of the company? Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Amstrad disks >BTW, the service manual (an Amstrad Service manual = parts lists + >schematics _only_, virtually no text) is available from CPC in the UK if >anyone needs one. It's not that expensive (say about \pounds 15.00). > >> >> Joe >> >> > >-tony > From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 10 21:47:10 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3506093E.D851181@crl.com> Joe wrote: > > I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer > made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It > has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to > represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin > chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses > incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it > looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of > these? Not this exact one, but they made numerous similar digital tools. I've seen the kind that has a smaller LED display that sits right on top of the chip-clip thingy. I love this kind of thing. Let me know if it's taking up too much space ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 10 22:19:39 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... In-Reply-To: <3505987F.136B1C9B@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980310231939.00af4a50@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: >To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, >the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard >is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before >the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. Does it work, or is it fixable??? >I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that >look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do >but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a >current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I >need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three >for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them >(swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon >before I bury them in my storage building for a while. Also, are any of these still available? I may be requiring a terminal or two in the near future... Please let me know, and thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 10 22:20:34 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Nuts! (Was: Re: Terminals in my way...) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980310232034.00919100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: Nuts... Sorry, guys! "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Mar 10 22:36:45 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Perhaps is the drive motor not spinning fast enough (because it may be a >240V type as well, now only getting 120V)? If it can not get up to speed, >well... Yep, two parts I have found so far 240v, and need to be replaced... I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to find replacement motors, but some of the other stuff will be interesting... --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 07:23:23 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310163333.009797d0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311072323.43afdb7e@intellistar.net> At 04:33 PM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 02:13 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >>Phillip, >> >> Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I >>think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I >>just reformat tem for use in my machines? >> > >If you want I'll trade you some new 8" diskettes for the S/34 diskettes. I >think I can still get the 8" "flippy" style that can be used as either 1 or >2D--otherwise I'm sure I can scrape together a box or two of IBM disks that >have already been archived. That way you have your disks, and I can dump >the S/34 stuff to a CD-ROM and add it to the archives. We never get any IBM >requests for the S/34 stuff anymore, but I'd still like to be able to make >it available to museums and collectors. > > >Thank you, > >David Wollmann >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ >-- >Support for legacy IBM products. > >Data, document and file conversion for legacy >IBM file and media formats. > David, That sounds like a good idea. But one question first. Do you make this stuff freeely available or does your company charge for it? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 08:30:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: References: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311083044.449794dc@intellistar.net> At 11:24 PM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> >> <> More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part >> <> of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O >> <> functions. >> >> And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard >> interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). > >Well, my 8089 data sheet is copyright 1980, Hey, you did RTFB! Joe :-) so I'd put that chip before >the PC/AT. This chip was used as the DMA controller in the original >Apricot PC, BTW. > >The 8089 is really a very fancy DMA controller with a limited processing >ability as well. There are AND/OR/NOT/ADD instructions (although no XOR, >no SUB and no shifts/rotates). It looks to have been a pretty nice chip - >pity it never caught on. It's a lot nicer than the 8237 + page register >kludge used on the PC. > > >> Allison > >-tony > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 07:43:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? Message-ID: <13338823019.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Here we go... I moved the RA81 to school. Whilst running the RA81 checkout tests in the manual, I get to step 11 of the checkout tests, and I get the following: %RA81-TEST: SUBTEST:0F ERROR:D8 UNIT:000 %RA81-FRU-SERVO,HDA This indicates that the HDA needs replacing ------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 10 04:19:02 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021724.AA13928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803111519.KAA25421@smtp.interlog.com> On 2 Mar 98 at 12:24, Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the > > Rainbows did run MSdos versions 1.1 and 2.11.. I may even have a copy of > 2.11(rx50). > > Allison > > Sorry, Allison . Imissed this post in arecent glut of e-mail. Thanks for the offer but I'll likely be down-loading all I can use from the fi. site. If it turns out that I'm unable to use the images I'll get back to you. BTW I still have the PDP-8/e/f/m maintenance manual . If there's any section that you would like photocopied let me know ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 10 04:18:59 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803111518.KAA25368@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 Mar 98 at 13:11, David Wollmann wrote: > At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: > > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said > >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. > >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive > >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. > >It had model 5271 marked on the back. > > Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA > cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard > to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. > There was a thread on this a while back. Below follows the relevant details. I still have the monitor. ciao larry On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: snip > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks > > like EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton > > Utes and it was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear > > characters. > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it > > took two coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > -Mike > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are > likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't > know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. > Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at > emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it > that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not > as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for > it...) > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points > Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the > top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced > the capability somewhat as well. > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. > Pity. snip > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one > of PS and APA, alas. > > Hope this helps > > Philip. > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these would it work on an XT ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lfb107 at psu.edu Wed Mar 11 10:46:51 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable so any ideas are welcome! Also, I have a number of machines that I don't use on any sort of regular basis that have hard drives in them. I don't expect these things to last forever but is there something I can do to prolong the life of some relatively unused machines. (An old Xerox comes to mind) Should I "start 'er up" every so often (like a car in storage) or is it better to just leave well enough alone? Thanks! Les lfb107@psu.edu From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 11 11:47:41 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? In-Reply-To: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: Although you'll probably beat me to it you won't be for long. On the other hand, my efforts to put machines on the net have been largely vaporware for several months. I actually DID have my SWTPC 6800 machine on the Net for about 24 hours before a power line hit or something (it was protected so maybe it was just a failure) popped a 7400 on it's cpu card and caused its serial card to go poof. I finally got some schematics so I'll be working on fixing that. I have an 11/84 and an 11/34 in the garage that are waiting to be moved into the basement and restored to full operation. I also got a DEC terminal server that apparently contains, according to sources on this mailing list, a Unibus ethernet card suitable for the 11/84 so I might feel compelled to place it on the Net. When DSL arrives in Des Moines in June, I should be able to afford the upgrade from my dedicated 33.6k connection to a 256k link. Once I get over my cold (I can tell I'm starting to get over it because, as is always the case for 3 or 4 days following a cold, everything smells like burnt chocolate) I intend to move the 84 the 34 and the 3 PDP-8I's into the basement and start restoring them. I spent last week...part of why I got sick...cleaning the basement and making space for everything and organizing my workbench so I can actually work on machines. At any rate, the 84 is currently loaded with RSX though I always preferred RSTS over it. Apparently, however, SCO has released source, binary etc licensing for various flavors of Unix for the 11 so I'm inclined to run that instead. =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > When I get my RSTS online publicly, would I be correct in > saying I am the only RSTS/E PDP-11 on the internet? > ------- > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 09:42:46 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <199803111518.KAA25368@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311094246.00810100@ibmhelp.com> At 10:18 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >On 10 Mar 98 at 13:11, David Wollmann wrote: > >> At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >> > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >> >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >> >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >> >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >> >It had model 5271 marked on the back. >> >> Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA >> cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard >> to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. >> > > There was a thread on this a while back. Below follows the relevant >details. I still have the monitor. > >ciao larry > >On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >snip >> >> > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks >> > like EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton >> > Utes and it was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear >> > characters. >> > >> > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it >> > took two coupled long cards to run the video... >> > >> > -Mike >> >> No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are >> likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) >> >> The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't >> know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. >> Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. >> >> The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at >> emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it >> that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. >> >> 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols >> option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not >> as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for >> it...) >> >> 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points >> Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the >> top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced >> the capability somewhat as well. >> >> It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. >> Pity. > >snip > >> But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one >> of PS and APA, alas. >> >> Hope this helps >> >> Philip. >> >I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to >get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, >altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be >the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card >and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these >would it work on an XT ? > >ciao larry >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > I'm not sure if you could make the 5272 work for run-of-the-mill DOS apps on an XT, even with the 3270 cards since the functionality they add is mostly for the 3270 ws emu. There was a fellow who was doing a fix on the 5272 that made it a standard EGA--IIRC it was just a couple desolders and a few cuts with an X-acto knife. I lost track of him, but you might try searching Alta Vista for "5272". If I find him again I'll post his info here. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 11 11:12:15 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) References: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3506C5EF.FA141EB4@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Lart?] > I have one. It's a hard cardboard tube out of the center of a UTP reel box. > Aout 2" thick. I wrote "RTFM" on the top. > ------- Mine's a steel tube. About 5" long, about .45" ID. I shorten "RTFM" to an "X" at the end of the enforcement module inside. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 11:28:48 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311112848.00812700@ibmhelp.com> At 11:46 AM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have >a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable >so any ideas are welcome! > Other than storing them in a cool, dark place I don't thing there's a whole lot you can do to curb the aging effects. We're starting to see problems with 9 Track and QIC tapes (5-10 yrs. old or >), not so much with 8" diskettes--yet. The diskettes that have been stored properly seem to be almost perfect at this point. I've been wondering if vacuum-packing with one of those kitchen countertop units would help preserve the old diskettes and tapes? If you want to move the files/images to a modern format like CD for preservation, the method probably depends on how you expect to go about restoring the data to 8" when you need to. We have an 8" unit attached to a PC that can read CP/M and IBM 3740-compatible (Series/1, S/23, S/36, Displaywriter, etc.) and dump either images or files to PC disk, from there to CD-ROM. This is how we're preserving the IBM 8" diskettes in our collection. When we need a new copy of one of the 8" diskettes, we just reverse the process. The only problem we've found so far is with Displaywriter Textpack diskettes--for some reason we have to format the diskette on the Displaywriter first, then write the image, otherwise the diskette won't boot the machine. I'm sure this is a controller issue. For your purposes, you'll probably have to figure out how to move files or images (difficulty depends on the machine and OS, I suppose) between the 8"-equipped machine and a PC/Mac/etc. so you can store them on modern media for later use. Even if you don't know how to move the files/images back to the original machine at first, you've still preserved the files, you can always buy the return ticket later. The easiest approach for moving files usually seems to be ftp, Kermit or another comm package over null modem cable to a host PC. >Also, I have a number of machines that I don't use on any sort >of regular basis that have hard drives in them. I don't expect >these things to last forever but is there something I can do to >prolong the life of some relatively unused machines. (An old >Xerox comes to mind) Should I "start 'er up" every so often >(like a car in storage) or is it better to just leave well enough >alone? It might be a good idea to do a backup/init disk/restore every few years to refresh the disk, provided your tape drive is in good working order and you can get fresh tapes. > >Thanks! >Les >lfb107@psu.edu > > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Wed Mar 11 11:59:39 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803111759.MAA05893@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> > From CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Mar 11 12:38:47 1998 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Sender: dwollmann@ibmhelp.com > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > X-Lines: 72 > > At 11:46 AM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall > >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have > >a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable > >so any ideas are welcome! > > > > Other than storing them in a cool, dark place I don't thing there's a whole > lot you can do to curb the aging effects. We're starting to see problems > with 9 Track and QIC tapes (5-10 yrs. old or >), not so much with 8" > diskettes--yet. The concensus on the "Community Memory" computer-history list, IIRC, was that to preserve the DATA it was a good idea to periodically migrate it to newer (types of) media. If you want to continue using the same PHYSICAL media (type), for purposes of "completeness," sentiment, etc., I assume you could simply (?) read-and-rewrite the data back onto the "same" media (whether the "same tape," or just "another tape of the same kind," is up to YOU). I can however envision situations in which system resource limitations might make it difficult to do that -- only one drive, no spare "blank" media, insufficient memory to buffer a copy of ONE tape/disk while swapping to the next one (more of a problem with tapes than with disks). You might be able to get around some of these problems with clever programming (i.e. tracking media position and restoring positions around multiple medium-swaps!) -- but I'm not about to assume that you guys can all PROGRAM all the machines you COLLECT. (Can you?) Me, I'm a DIY-software-head. I don't buy, or even dumpster-dive for, much hardware that I can't at least POTENTIALLY program... Chris Chiesa ("the still-pretty-new guy") From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 12:05:13 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? In-Reply-To: <13338823019.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 05:43:15 am Message-ID: <9803111805.AA13730@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 467 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/6dbb4d8c/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 12:07:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? In-Reply-To: <9803111805.AA13730@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13338871202.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Locking heads?] FOrgetting to lock them - Nope. I did that. Forgetting to UNlock them - Did that a week ago. Figured out when I heard the large screech noise. ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 11 12:09:45 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Offering my help... Message-ID: <01bd4d18$dfa183e0$b760bcc1@hotze> Hi. After noticing how boring stuff was getting (between exams (no homework), and decrease of after school activities), I've decided to beef-up my involvement. So, I'm offering my help doing classiccmp/semi-classic stuff. I can't do everything, but I can do web pages, basic tips, etc. If anyone wants my help, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 12:13:24 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> from "Les Berry" at Mar 11, 98 11:46:51 am Message-ID: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 703 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/77a33bb8/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 12:12:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. Message-ID: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I am right now sitting in a room containing a few interesting parts... There's an 11/70 here, and 11/44, and 11/83. And that's not all. Lining the back wall are VAX 7650, 8530, 11/785... There's other DEC stuff around... There's apparently a RSX/11M distrib RL02 pack around, but it's been lost in a sea of XXDP+ packs... Numbersome MicroVAXen... I am talking to you right now from the 785! Truly impressive! The room also holds an AlphaServer 7100, and a lot of Windoze boxen. This is ATS's lab, where they test things! Already scored a lot of manuals, PDP-11, VAX, and PDP-8 stuff. Maybe I can talk them out of this 785, or maybe a DELUA or something... :) See ya later, I'm gonna see what else I can find! PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test equipment! ------- From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 11 12:35:55 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 10:12:47 am Message-ID: <199803111835.KAA24247@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/47ff5f69/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 11 12:43:49 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Les Berry wrote: > I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall > any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have > a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable > so any ideas are welcome! The classiccmp FAQ has some information about this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 12:47:42 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> At 10:13 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: [snip] >That said, I have 8" floppies from the early 70's that still read >just fine. I can't say the same for CD-ROM's... Are you having problems reading the silver discs, or CD-Rs? How old are they? I'm just curious to know how CDs are holding up over time. I've heard that some CD-R discs aren't lasting more than a couple years, while others have no problems. David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 13:09:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 11, 98 12:47:42 pm Message-ID: <9803111909.AA12274@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/5142637d/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Mar 11 13:25:00 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> References: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980311142500.00adb630@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw David Wollmann typed: >At 10:13 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >[snip] >>That said, I have 8" floppies from the early 70's that still read >>just fine. I can't say the same for CD-ROM's... > >Are you having problems reading the silver discs, or CD-Rs? How old are they? > >I'm just curious to know how CDs are holding up over time. I've heard that >some CD-R discs aren't lasting more than a couple years, while others have >no problems. There's also the problem that folks seem to think that CD-R's are indestructable so they do not take care of them (i.e. not putting them back in the jewel cases, playing shuffleboard with them, etc.). My ex-supervisor had an (at the time) useless CD and said "There's no way you can hurt this CD so it can't be read in a player." I took it, put it between my thumb and middle finger, pushed on the middle with my index finger, and started sqeezing. 10 seconds later (I went slow for effect) the CD shattered into about 30 shards. I meticulously picked up each little piece, placed them in my ex-sup's hands and said "If you can get a directory of this thing, I'll give you $500. (the guy's a big-time gambler) I think he tried duct tape & superglue -- I wasn't worried. On a related note, I have a CD-RW and about 12 blank CD-R's yet... but one I'm saving seems more special. The run-of-the-mill stuff are my Maxells -- $0.99 after rebate. They boast a (max) 30 year shelf life. However, the one Kodak I have here boasts: "Stable Dye. The media contains a carefully selected dye recording layer that protects against the effects of light, humidity, and temperature, ensuring long data life of 100 years or more." Whether or not it's true, my classic info will be going on that disk. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 11 13:35:16 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803111935.TAA18277@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-10 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :It's been a long time since I've looked at a CS book, but I :remember the Turing machine as a *theoretical* machine that reads :and writes symbols on an *infinitely long* tape. I'm sure somebody :could build an approximation of this, but the main interest in the :Turing machine is that it is used as the definition of :computational "power." One of theories is that no machine built :today, or at any time in the future, no matter what the :architecture, will be able to compute anything that a simple Turing :machine cannot compute.. that's the one. alan turing defined these machines as part of his contribution to the proof that mathematics has some unprovables. anything that can be proved, period, can be proved by a turing machine; anything that a turing machine can't prove is unprovable. kurt godel (most famously, perhaps?) and alonzo church producd alternative theorems to demonstrate the same thing, but turing's work laid the basis for computer science, and turing himself became quite active within the field of early uk computation (the original ACE design is his, and he subsequently worked on manchester's computers). there are even such things as "universal turing machines", which can be given definitions of turing machines and used to solve such problems, which we suspect led directly on to universal computers which could be programmed to simulate special purpose devices. the "infinite tape" idea is as important as you suggested, however. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 14:19:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <19980311201951.25631.qmail@hotmail.com> >anything that a turing machine can't prove is unprovable. kurt godel I'm reading Douglas Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach, which is about information, patterns, number theory, intelligence, and so on. I implore everyone to read it, it is something any scientist ought to be familiar with like the three laws of motion. Copyright 1979, ISBN 0-394-74502-7. He wrote some more books after this one, but this one is better. Two others I have read deal with the same thing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed Mar 11 15:13:20 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803112113.WAA07464@mbox.queen.it> At 12:54 09/03/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have >the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with >the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle >section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of >the drives in the system. About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these positions, like the Olivetti version have? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 11 13:17:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks In-Reply-To: <004e01bd4c9a$7401ee00$5769420c@francois> from "Francois" at Mar 10, 98 09:03:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/01ed9eea/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 11 11:26:33 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <9803111909.AA12274@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 11, 98 12:47:42 pm Message-ID: <199803112217.RAA20714@mail.cgocable.net> Suggestions: All of that degrading data storage stuff is caused by oxygen, moisture in air, also heat makes this reaction go faster or might distorts the plastic stuff if too HOT. Also stray magnetic field hurts the magnetic based stuff. Solution: Make or buy strong air tight container, or heavy gauge bags and a sealing equipment, bottle of nitogen gas. Back up and clone everything to new top quality data storage of any types and a spare drive or two just in case original go bad. Before sealing, blow some nitogen and toss some drying packs in, seal up. Store them in light-tight and magnetic protected container where temperature is cooler. For any paper based media, clone data to acid-free paper, mylar or tyvek. Tyvek is nearly very HARD to tear and very strong. This way, your stuff will not go bad. :) When handling originals wear cotton over vinyl gloves to keep oils off and moisture if you really cared to keep them long time and this is what most musrum archives techs does when handling objects. Which means you must not have fluorsecent because it does emit UV. Rotate the storage every few years and rewrite to newer generation of storage technologies just in case to keep magnetic patterns well defined and strong. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:18:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <199803111835.KAA24247@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <13338916904.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [ATS?] ATS is Advanced Technology Services. A company off of Caterpillar. THey're all over the place. And I did get a load of interesting manuals. Some have Dick Blaudow's name on the sides, he's the guy responsible for starting the company. Oh, and another thing: After noting my intrest in VAXen, they guy in charge led me to another 11/785 hidden in an off room. It didn't boot. I got to bring it up. The 11/04 at the bottom had died: We switched out the boards inside. I had it at a SYSBOOT> prompt before I had to leave. The recruiter seemed VERY interested in me! They took my name and email-address: I get that 785 when it's decommissioned in a few months. (!) Will NetBSD run on that? ------- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 11 11:39:11 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: <19980311201951.25631.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803112229.RAA24373@mail.cgocable.net> This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: model: AE-2/C I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this part. Any good about it? Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 16:43:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338916904.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 02:18:58 pm Message-ID: <9803112243.AA19326@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/0ed4f660/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:45:27 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803112243.AA19326@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [11/03 console?] Yes, it's an 11/03. I was a number off. ------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 16:56:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... References: <3.0.3.32.19980310231939.00af4a50@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <350716A6.A080C20A@bbtel.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: > > >To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, > >the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard > >is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before > >the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. > > Does it work, or is it fixable??? Powers up and boots to a point where it seems it wants to tie to the mainframe. Other than that it's an "as-is" deal as I have no way to test it further. It weighs 25 lbs for shipping with the keyboard. > >I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that > >look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do > >but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a > >current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I > >need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three > >for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them > >(swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon > >before I bury them in my storage building for a while. > > Also, are any of these still available? I may be requiring a terminal or > two in the near future... I have the two as I told you last night and each weighs 20 lbs incl keyboard. You could have both for $15 plus shipping on 40 lbs. If you want all of these it's 65 lbs shipping and the $20 for the items ($5 for the Visual, $15 for both 700/44's). I need either and address or at least a zip code to calculate the shipping by both UPS and USPS. I'll be able to give you a total for a money order once I have the zipcode. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:48:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [785 question] Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 17:01:42 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 02:48:02 pm Message-ID: <9803112301.AA08821@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 769 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/f3a4f465/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 11 17:08:56 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. Message-ID: <017901bd4d42$ab1d3400$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? > Hmmm, going strictly from memory, wasn't the 785 some kind of dual-processor or failsafe setup? I remember it dropped off the VMS supported hardware list back on V5.something or other. Jack Peacock From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 17:25:57 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <017901bd4d42$ab1d3400$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 11, 98 03:08:56 pm Message-ID: <9803112325.AA00659@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/f6c9af93/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 17:51:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. Message-ID: <13338933728.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Well, since the failed codes I got says the HDA is toast, I got to back this sucker up, real quick. I only have TU58's on the 44. I have a lot of them though. How can I tell RSTS 8.0-07 to back up to them? ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 19:54:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and it doesn't detect the drive at all. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 21:28:27 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311212827.2a4f78a8@intellistar.net> >Return-Path: >Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:13:20 +0100 >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >From: RICCARDO >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: Re: AT&T 6300 >X-Sender: chemif@mbox.queen.it >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >At 12:54 09/03/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> >>I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have >>the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with >>the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle >>section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of >>the drives in the system. >About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these >positions, like the Olivetti version have? I've wondered about those too. There are several AT&Ts in a trift store here and some have the red covers and some have a second drive in that position. I guess it's just a blank cover. Joe > > > >???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? >? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? >? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? >? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? >? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? >???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 11 20:35:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Free 8-inch floppies in South Australia Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980311203502.00b60420@pc> Subject: OLD 8 inch floppy disks please take 'em. From: aek Date: 1998/03/10 Message-ID: <350600A1.A84@all-electric.com> Newsgroups: aus.ads.forsale.computers.used,aus.electronics Y-ellow Y'all I have an unknown number of old 8 inch floppies in 10 boxes. Some are Burroughs brand others are verbatum. Plus two old disk cleaning kits. I guess you could use the cleaning disks but the rest of the stuff looks crusty. Take 'em away or pay the COD if you really want 'em. If no-one want's 'em they're beyond history. Batz ________ _ _ / ____|| | // AEK C/o / /| |____ | |// 11 Henley Beach Road _-_|\ / __ ____|| < Henley Beach / \ / / | |____ | \ \ South Australia 5022 \_.-*_/ / / |______|| |\ \ (+618) 8356 4081 v All Electric Kitchen http://www.all-electric.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 22:02:02 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <3.0.1.16.19980311212827.2a4f78a8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35075E3A.6BB8D574@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > >>I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have > >>the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with > >>the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle > >>section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of > >>the drives in the system. > >About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these > >positions, like the Olivetti version have? > > I've wondered about those too. There are several AT&Ts in a trift store > here and some have the red covers and some have a second drive in that > position. I guess it's just a blank cover. Nope, there's a hard disk behind and the access LED shines through it. The separator between the two areas,floppy and ruby blank should normally show an A: and a C: on it. They usually have an Olliveti hard disk, 5.25" half height similar to the ST-225. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 11 22:07:43 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: X1541 cable In-Reply-To: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. >Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and >it doesn't detect the drive at all. Sounds like you might have the problem I had when I made mine. Try to ensure you aren't looking at the instructions on how to make it backwards, which results in the wires being wrong. IIRC one of the plugs is shown the opposite of what you would expect. Once I fixed that I was able to see it with SC. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 22:23:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: CP/M for free... Message-ID: <35076353.A665047B@bbtel.com> Just wanted to let everyone know that Caldera, which now owns all Digital Research software, has made CP/M freely available! I discovered this by accident when I went to download OpenDOS. Check it out at: http://www.caldera.com/dos/html/legacyindex.html They have a link to an unofficial CP/M page with tons of other software. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 11 22:33:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> <>> And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard <>> interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). <> <>Well, my 8089 data sheet is copyright 1980, 8041 series predates the 8089. Also the 8089 still needs the page register as it's limited to 20 bit addressing when it's used with 286 and later parts. I may add the 8089 was no fun to use. Allison From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 22:50:34 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13338933728.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 03:51:23 pm Message-ID: <9803120450.AA01519@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/02d44963/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 11 23:27:39 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Slow week Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980311232739.006c5bec@pop3.concentric.net> Well this has been really a slow wek on the finds. today I picked up IBM 6156 portable disk drive bay that holds 3 drives for the IBM RT PC. I got the user manual and the service manual with it for $25 at Goodwill. Picked up a MAc 512ke unit that I've been looking for at a thrift for 80 cents does not work, no screen display. Picked a complete manual set for the NCR PC6 along with 4 setup disk. A AST Bravo/286 for 80 cents without monitor or key broad have not tested it yet. today I also picked about 30 books and manuals covering all makes of hardware and some software titles. I've got hurry and a warehouse setup for the museum. Well that's it for now I will list some of the other items later. Keep computing !! John From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 11 23:43:59 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: <199803112229.RAA24373@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: > > model: AE-2/C > > I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this > part. Ah, my old favorite. This card will run under LANtastic 5.0 with unlimited licenses (when you bought this card, you bought a license to use LANtastic; if you bought a third party card you had to buy the "adapter independent" version of LANtastic which was a limited license product). As for adding TP to it, I don't know if there is also some hardware modification you have make to enable it for TP operation. The drivers for this card come with LANtastic 5.0, 6.0 and 7.0. All the same I could get you the drivers, for LANtastic at least. I can also get you a copy of the unlimited license of version 5.0. I don't know if any drivers were ever written for it for Novell. Windows 95 has drivers natively. My guess is that NT has them too although I can't check at the moment. However, if this card is anything like the NodeRunner card (which replaced the AE series cards) and can be configured for NE2000 mode, you can only run it in NE2000 mode using an 8-bit interrupt (ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 7). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 23:59:52 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Free 8-inch floppies in South Australia In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980311203502.00b60420@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 11, 98 08:35:02 pm Message-ID: <9803120559.AA01681@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 231 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/83e2a5a4/attachment.ksh From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Mar 12 01:48:01 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> References: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> Message-ID: <350791d7.453845@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:33:11 -0500, you said: >I may add the 8089 was no fun to use. I went to an Intel class (1986, IIRC, titled "Microprocessor Base Architecture") which was based on the 8086 & 8088. The instructor voiced the same opinion, and praised the 80286. I vaguely recall that the 80186 is a 8086-8089 marriage.?.? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Mar 12 06:10:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980312071013.0068bc54@mail.wincom.net> Hi, gang: Check out the NY Times article at http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html Regards Charlie Fox From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Thu Mar 12 06:56:51 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <01bd4db6$535c81c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox > Check out the NY Times article at >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html > I note that the registration page for their site says that registration is free to US residents, so will I get a bill ;-) Although the following page says that there is no need to register at this time, if I enter the URL given I keep getting thrown back to the registration page. What is the article about? Regards Pete From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 08:29:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803120450.AA01519@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339093530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [600 tapes?] Just to get [0,*] and [1,*]? Doesn't matter anyway, I just blew a class and it'll cost me 3 weeks... I should have been doing NDD instead! I had a few assignments on a disk, and 95 barfed on the FAT for some reason... I thought I could just turn them in late... WRONG! Oh, well... These things happen... If I get to install 9-track tape, I may as well just go scare up a 1600 BPI controller and install from the distrib tape. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 12 09:09:03 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980312090903.00badcc0@pc> lfb107@psu.edu (Les Berry) wrote: >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I've archived a number of my Terak 8-inch floppies by sending a disk image out the serial port, and capturing on a PC. I also wrote utilities to extract the files and get directories from these disk images containing UCSD P-System and RT-11 file systems. See my web page for more info. It would be great if there were a highly portable program that could be adapted easily to any system that would somehow (serial, Ethernet, file system, etc.) make a copy of all the blocks on a device. Of course, some operating systems already have such utilities that can be called into service for this task, but I think we need something that goes a bit deeper. For example, old media tends to have errors. This block-transfer program (and perhaps its resulting disk image) need to be smart enough to mark some blocks as "known bad" to let external programs work around the problem. Various built-in block-copy programs might react to this error in different ways, none of them pleasant to the data restoration task, of course. Most emulators can use a pristine disk image. Some emulators for archaic computers have developed their own formats for storing floppy, hard disk and tape images. Tim Shoppa wrote: >I don't understand the difficulties here. You make a sector-by-sector >image of the 8-inch floppy and store it on whatever medium you regard >as being more archival. This is done quite easily on every system >I know with an 8-inch floppy drive; if you're having difficulties, let >us know your hardware and OS and a solution will be found. It would be great if there were more utilities that could operate on these floppy/hard/paper/cassette/N-track images: reading and writing files to them, getting directories of them, etc. jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: >For any paper based media, clone data to acid-free paper, mylar >or tyvek. Tyvek is nearly very HARD to tear and very strong. Paper-based media? You mean manuals, or Cauzin soft-strips? :-) Laser-printer and even some copier toners drive me bananas; a little heat or pressure or out-gassing plastic nearby and they fuse pages together or flake toner particles. >Also stray magnetic field hurts the magnetic based stuff. I may be completely off-base about this, but I've always regarded this as an urban legend, too. Go ahead, try to damage the bits on a floppy with a refrigerator magnet. It's not the same as a bulk eraser. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 12 08:37:26 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980312083726.00ba47e0@pc> "Max Eskin" wrote: >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. Hmm. Mine worked the first time, after I tried each of the parallel port modes on my motherboard. Did you try varying those? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 09:41:16 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339093530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 06:29:12 am Message-ID: <9803121541.AA01998@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 379 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/d1785a67/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Thu Mar 12 10:33:09 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980312071013.0068bc54@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980312083309.00f57c40@pop.batnet.com> At 07:10 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > Check out the NY Times article at >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html I'd just like to add that the new Circuits section, every Thursday morning in the NY Times, makes very good reading in its entirety. When you combine Circuits with the Monday morning Business Day, which is all about IS and info industry, and the two personal-computing articles in Tuesday's Science Times, it means that the NYT is taking computing quite seriously -- after (IMNSHO) being slow to wake to the implications in the late eighties/early nineties. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 11:31:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803121541.AA01998@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339126630.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Can't boot from tu58] That's right. Oh, s**t. Time to get more creative - How about RX02s? :) OK, I'll go dig up a tape drive from somewhere. Maybe I'll steal the one from the 34A. I do have an Emulex controller that looks like it talks Pertec-Formatted, and a Pertec-Formatted device of unknown health... I'll go dig up model numbers later. ------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Mar 12 10:21:43 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable In-Reply-To: References: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803121736.LAA23409@onyx.southwind.net> Guys: You know, I tried to make one of these beasties wired both frontward *and* backward, and neither configuration (on either machine) worked. Judging by the decidedly iffy nature of the Commodore serial port, I have come to the conclusion that on certain machines it is not possible to make this work! Does anyone agree with this, or am I just a blithering idiot? Jeff > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:07:43 -0800 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: X1541 cable > >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. > >Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and > >it doesn't detect the drive at all. > > Sounds like you might have the problem I had when I made mine. Try to > ensure you aren't looking at the instructions on how to make it backwards, > which results in the wires being wrong. IIRC one of the plugs is shown the > opposite of what you would expect. Once I fixed that I was able to see it > with SC. > > Zane From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 12:31:50 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339126630.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 09:31:02 am Message-ID: <9803121831.AA02922@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/f0ffecc9/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 12:34:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803121831.AA02922@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339138153.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Spare RA80/81] Hmm... I have to replace this one anyway... It'd be not too hard... I already have a RA82 HDA (But someone swiped the logic off the top...) maybe I can find the rest of it? How about a RA90? I know I can get one... What are those, anyway? That may be the way to go! I wouldn't have to drag a 9-track up here either! ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 12:47:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 11, 98 11:33:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 991 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/bac97e96/attachment.ksh From rnjslonneger at worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 12 14:18:02 1998 From: rnjslonneger at worldnet.att.net (Ron and Jean Slonneger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer Message-ID: I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. Components: 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV output board and power supply. 2 Keyboard 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive 4 19" monitor for output 5 Modem 6 Documentation I would like to donate it. Interested? Ron Slonneger Peoria, IL From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 12 14:52:40 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer Message-ID: <1998Mar12.155153.1767.87819@smtp.itgonline.com> I'm interested. Please email me: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: digital group Z80 computer Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/12/98 3:38 PM I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. Components: 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV output board and power supply. 2 Keyboard 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive 4 19" monitor for output 5 Modem 6 Documentation I would like to donate it. Interested? Ron Slonneger Peoria, IL ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar12.153824.1767.31402; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:38:26 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA24850; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:30:10 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA04756 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:29:39 -0800 Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.33]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA27054 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:29:38 -0800 Received: from [12.66.3.50] by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28480; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:18:13 +0000 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:18:02 -0600 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ron and Jean Slonneger To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: digital group Z80 computer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu, Anthony Clifton , tcarlson@ncsc.dni.us X-Sender: rnjslonneger@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From archive at navix.net Thu Mar 12 17:14:34 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer References: Message-ID: <35086C59.500EE0A6@navix.net> I'm very interested in your Z80 computer.. please e-mail me at archive@navix.net Thanks, CORD COSLOR Ron and Jean Slonneger wrote: > I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just > set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital > group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K > memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from > Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. > > Components: > 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV > output board and power supply. > 2 Keyboard > 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive > 4 19" monitor for output > 5 Modem > 6 Documentation > > I would like to donate it. Interested? > > Ron Slonneger > Peoria, IL -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Mar 12 15:42:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <19980312214220.2609.qmail@hotmail.com> I thought it could only work in standard mode, but I will rotate them and see. Could it be an weird parallel port? Also, what is the assembly languge command for the line that is used for data on X1541? (SELECT IN line) > >Hmm. Mine worked the first time, after I tried each of the parallel port >modes on my motherboard. Did you try varying those? > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 15:45:31 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339138153.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 10:34:20 am Message-ID: <9803122145.AA12466@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/2af3f206/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 15:59:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803122145.AA12466@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339175493.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [9-track is easier to archive...] Yeah, but I'd have to scare up a controller, see if the drive works, drag it up a flight of stairs, get that to work, then boot and back up from a bad HDA to the tape. Then run from the tape once that HDA dies. I'll probably end up getting both... ------- From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 12 16:41:37 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: That NY Times article that Charles Fox mentioned requires a username and password to access. Charles, could you pull that from the web site and post it here for all to see? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Mar 12 17:32:57 1998 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: DEC 5500 Message-ID: <5b7755bb.350870ab@aol.com> On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Nick Amato wrote: >I have the opportunity to snarf a DEC 5500 for free. This is a >refrigerator-sized Q-bus machine that runs an old version of >Ultrix (which is 4.2 BSD based). > >There are several cages of disks in the package. Supposedly, >around 2 GB total storage. And, a few DECprinters (9-pin dot matrix). > >And, I'm told that it boots. > >Has anyone had any sort of experience with one of these? > Yeh, I've got one, and even better, the book for it. It uses the KN220 CPU module set running at 30MHz, 32 bit data path It has Ehternet support (both AUI and thinwire) using the DESQA controller. It supports DEC's DSSI drives (i.e. RF71 380M, RF72 1G) and will mount three of these in the BA213 cabinet Mine supports SCSI drives (i.e. RZ55 300M, RZ56 600M) and has an iterface for external drives It will support DEC's SDI drives (i.e. RA series) using a KDA50 module set. It has a serial console port using DEC's MMJ connector Mine has a TK70 tape drive using a TQK70 controller It will support the TK50Z tape drive on the SCSI bus or the TK50 drive using a TQK50 contoller It will support the TLZ04 tape drive on the SCSI bus It will support the TU81 tape drive using a KLESI controller (I think I have a spare controller somewhere.) Mine has two MS220-AA 32 Mbyte memory boards, I think it supports 4 total It supports the Ultrix operating system, version 4.0 or later. This is the same as for the DS2100/3100, 5000, and 5400. By all means snarf it up. Mike From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Mar 12 18:41:45 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: <5b7755bb.350870ab@aol.com> Message-ID: In repairing the SWTPC 6800 MP-A CPU board, I've discovered I THINK that a 7474 which is used to generate NOT HALT to the CPU (and to halt it under certain circumstances) is keeping the CPU halted all the time even though the bus says there's no reason for it to be halted. Here's why and I want someone to tear apart my logic before I desolder the 7474 and replace it: Preset and Clear are high, which makes them inactive. The clock is pulsing high (IE present positive edges) to the clock input. D, which is high, should be clocked into Q so that it should be high as well under these circumstances, telling the CPU to NOT HALT. Instead, Q is low and NOT Q is high which is the reverse of what SHOULD be the case. What's the deal? Bad 7474? Or is my thinking SCREWED UP? IF my thinking is correct and my suspicion that the 7474 is bad, is it safe to replace it with a 74LS74? A friend of mine and I had a long conversation about what you can replace with what and I've forgotten what he told me about that. If I'm goofy in the head, let me know and let me know why. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From peacock at simconv.com Thu Mar 12 18:01:29 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS Message-ID: <000601bd4e13$2cff83d0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Instead, Q is low and NOT Q is high which is the reverse of what SHOULD >be the case. What's the deal? Bad 7474? Or is my thinking SCREWED UP? > >IF my thinking is correct and my suspicion that the 7474 is bad, is it >safe to replace it with a 74LS74? A friend of mine and I had a long >conversation about what you can replace with what and I've forgotten >what he told me about that. > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is hitting the R* input Anyway, I'd take it out and put in a socket if you think its most likely cause Jack Peacock From jmg at iac.net Thu Mar 12 18:27:29 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Sun3x boot prom Message-ID: <199803130027.TAA26420@mail.iac.net> Anyone remember how to set the default boot drive on a Sun3? This is not a Sun4, so the monitor commands are completely different from anything manufactured in the last ten years.... Thanks! --jmg From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Mar 12 19:27:57 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: <000601bd4e13$2cff83d0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) > should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast > pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if > memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic > probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? > maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC > driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is > hitting the R* input OK, here's the pins, what the logic probe says and what the voltmeter says: Pin Correct Name Rough Name State Voltage 8 2NOTQ Not Q Output High 3.93v 9 2Q Q Ouput Low 0.13v 10 2Set Preset High 4.99v 11 2Clk Clock Pulsing High 4.34v 12 2D Input High 5.02v 13 2Cr Clear High 5.00v D is driven directly from the bus so there's no chip driving it and the bus voltage looks fine. According to "Interfacing Microcomputers to the Real World" by Sargent and Shoemaker (the only thing I have that talks about the 7474 in detail, "The basic idea is this: with the clear and preset inputs high (not active), a transition of the clock input from low to high (called a positive edge) "clocks" the value of D into Q and the inverse into NOT Q. The clock transition is required; D can do anything it wants to, but nothing will happen to Q and NOT Q unless the clock has a positive edge." And the clock input is pulsing high so that's supposed to be positive edges. [THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!!!! SERIOUSLY!!! =-) ] And I don't see any fast pulse on any of the inputs that are supposed to stay stable. But what doesn't make sense to me is why the flip flop would fail in such a way that the outputs would be reversed with appropriate voltages. I feel I must be missing something but the poor thing is being driven in a pretty direct fashion...IE not alot of chips in the way and all the inputs look correct. I think I'm going to socket the thing and replace it with a 74LS74...if after two or three swaps (just for giggles) I get the same response, well then I guess I did miss something somewhere else. =-) In either case, I guess it's never a bad idea to socket things when you have an excuse in case something DOES go goofy. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From mike at boink.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 18:37:42 1998 From: mike at boink.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80K Message-ID: <01bd4e18$3be22560$c71a989e@pent-1> Just in case you're interested, I've set up a sharp MZ-80K oriented site (below). If you have any information which may be suitable for inclusion, please let me know. Thanks -- Mike http://www.boink.demon.co.uk/sharp/ From afritz at iname.com Thu Mar 12 19:34:44 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Pericom MX7200... Message-ID: Can someone tell me what this thing is? It was a freebie (a appearnlty rightly so). It's got a genuine MC68000P12 in it. When I plug the video in and turn it on, it just sits at a blank screen with a flashing cursor in the corner. I've gathered that it's somesort of graphics workstation but I know nothing more. Thanks, Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ---------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 17:42:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: from "Wirehead Prime" at Mar 12, 98 06:41:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2712 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/e7b88f88/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Mar 12 21:18:26 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3538a49c.1117165509@hoser> My best friend in high school built one of those - it was really cool. His had "phi-deck" high-speed cassette tape drives - it always looked so busy and efficient whirring the tapes back and forth and loading and unloading the heads. I built an IMSAI 8080 at the same time. I'd love to have a digital group system to go with it. I'd give yours a good home with my IMSAI and my Heathkit H-89. What do you say? If there's a lot of interest, maybe you should hold an auction... On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:18:02 -0600, you wrote: >I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just >set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital >group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K >memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from >Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. > >Components: >1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV >output board and power supply. >2 Keyboard >3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive >4 19" monitor for output >5 Modem >6 Documentation > >I would like to donate it. Interested? > >Ron Slonneger >Peoria, IL > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Mar 12 21:24:10 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <353ba614.1117542100@hoser> I don't know about adding twisted-pair capability; I would think you would need some sort of balun on the card, too. But yes, these cards can run in NE-2 mode, and are supported by Windows 95, NT, Windows for Workgroups, and even Linux. Most of my home network is using them in that mode. I got a bunch cheap when a business here in town switched to a different setup. On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:43:59 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > >> This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: >> >> model: AE-2/C >> >> I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this >> part. >moment. However, if this card is anything like the NodeRunner card (which >replaced the AE series cards) and can be configured for NE2000 mode, you >can only run it in NE2000 mode using an 8-bit interrupt (ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, >7). > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 21:32:18 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > See ya later, I'm gonna see what else I can find! You, sir, have not seen many real computer rooms. Some of the plainest looking buildings have the most impressive computer rooms. Of those that I frequent, the best have been MCI sites (old things - VAXen, HP1000s, IBM S/1s, etc.), banks (big IBM iron, _including_ S/360 remnants), and AOL (yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of serious machines, but all recent). William Donzelli william@ans.net From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz Thu Mar 12 22:54:28 1998 From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 4P gate array help Message-ID: Ok...here's the problem The machine come up with garbage on the screen.It would also seem that the video is inverted, I can see the retrace lines etc, so the horizontal blanking is not working either by the looks of it. What I suspect is wrong is that either U42 (the 6845 labeled in my machine as a motorola SC80757P) or U102 (the 4.3 video support chip) is faulty (or both?). Does anyone have any info on U102 (what is it..can I get another?) or any other thoughts. Some other notes are. 1. It seems to boot (I get a very crappy tandy logo in inverse on the screen) though the screen is so unstable as to be unreadable. 2. It does not matter if it is in 64 or 80 column mode, the video is still crap. 3. I suppose the Char generator rom could also be a problem Any help would be appreciated. BTW does anyone have the diagnostic disc for the 4/4P ? Cheers +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 12 22:01:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: <3538a49c.1117165509@hoser> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > My best friend in high school built one of those - it was really cool. > His had "phi-deck" high-speed cassette tape drives - it always looked > so busy and efficient whirring the tapes back and forth and loading > and unloading the heads. I built an IMSAI 8080 at the same time. I'd > love to have a digital group system to go with it. I'd give yours a > good home with my IMSAI and my Heathkit H-89. What do you say? If > there's a lot of interest, maybe you should hold an auction... Haggle Online (www.haggle.com) has a "private auction" category that lets you create an auction that doesn't get listed in any of the public categories so you can duke it out among yourselves if you list it there (and it's free). Speaking of IMSAI's, I just bought a PROM/RAM board from somebody (it's on its way) without knowing exactly what it is (that's my standard MO). All I know is that it's a Vector Graphics board for an IMSAI (and comes with the original receipt from IMS, as well as an original IMSAI catalog!) and I can tell from Bill R's Tandy catalog (http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/Tandy_TOC_Frames_Page.htm) that it was intended as a front-panel replacement (are your fingers red and swolen?). My guess is that a PROM/RAM board is sort of a ROM emulator. Am I close, or is it just a board that can handle PROMs and RAMs? -- Doug From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 22:45:20 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yep, two parts I have found so far 240v, and need to be replaced... I > suppose it shouldn't be too hard to find replacement motors, but some of > the other stuff will be interesting... Just curious... Why not run a 240 V circuit to the S/1? Depending on the local electrical code, it would be either easy, or very easy. Do not let the 240 scare you. That, or get a transformer to get the 240 V from a normal 120 V line. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 22:59:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: (Another cheap way to start a dumb thread) I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come up with for the hardware... S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, RS/6000, ES/9000 Are there any I missed? William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 12 23:52:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: References: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >(yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of >serious machines, but all recent). Ah, you mean their collection of Auspex File Servers, they are one of Auspexes two major customers. Interesting Hardware, I got to check out the hardware on their latest yesterday, they're really packing the drives in the new machines. Still trying to figure out how all the data on the new machines can be backed up in a timely manner. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 12 23:52:25 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 12, 98 11:59:57 pm Message-ID: <199803130552.AAA23241@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great William Donzelli once stated: > > I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was > wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come > up with for the hardware... > > S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, > S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, > S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, > RS/6000, ES/9000 You forgot the AS/400 series. -spc (Very interesting machines - optimized for DB work down to the instruction and hardware level. Simply amazing stuff ... ) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Mar 12 19:16:30 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <199803130552.AAA23241@armigeron.com> References: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 12, 98 11:59:57 pm Message-ID: <199803130609.BAA11659@mail.cgocable.net> > It was thus said that the Great William Donzelli once stated: > > > > I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was > > wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come > > up with for the hardware... > > > > S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, > > S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, > > S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, > > RS/6000, ES/9000 Bzzzzzzzzztttttttttttt!! > > You forgot the AS/400 series. There's one already! Jason D. > > -spc (Very interesting machines - optimized for DB work down to the > instruction and hardware level. Simply amazing stuff ... ) > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 00:17:11 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... Message-ID: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy connectors. I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: SMC-70G Micro Computer ??????? Genlocker SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? SMI-7075 Videotizer Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone has them!) The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. Thanks, Adam ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) http://afritz.base.org/ From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 13 00:15:27 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <199803130609.BAA11659@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Mar 13, 98 01:16:30 am Message-ID: <199803130615.BAA23289@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: > > > You forgot the AS/400 series. > There's one already! Oops. Missed it. -spc (Blarg) From sar at know-it-all.com Fri Mar 13 02:18:12 1998 From: sar at know-it-all.com (Scott A. Rossell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Okay, it's been awhile, but.... Message-ID: <01bd4e58$90d35720$fe6642a7@005019.scrippshealth.org> Is there any chance you still have that Timex/Sinclair for sale that you were talking about eight months ago? DOOD! -Scott A. Rossell- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/58856cd0/attachment.html From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Fri Mar 13 03:47:57 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <01bd4e65$1a6c23c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> I got into the web site today, out of interest, and went as far as the registration page which is working today. They want $35 per month from foreigners just to enter the site :-( Regards Pete From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Mar 13 05:31:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980313063113.006abbe4@mail.wincom.net> At 02:41 PM 3/12/98 -0800, you wrote: > >That NY Times article that Charles Fox mentioned requires a username and >password to access. Charles, could you pull that from the web site and >post it here for all to see? > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > Hi,Sam: When I went after that article early yesterday morning I got in OK, but when I tried later was rejected...not being in the U.S. I was interested as a result of providing a little information on a Samsung S300 for one of the writers. As an aside, the computer video ran on local cable but I have not had much feedback. At present I am starting another one: "Seventy five years of home movies". Regards Charlie Fox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/53d21fd6/12die.htm -------------- next part -------------- March 12, 1998 Where Do Computers Go When They Die? By CAREY GOLDBERG f Americans treated dead people the way they treat dead computers, their basements and closets would be cluttered with family corpses. Under many a desk, there would be a cadaver crammed into the arch meant for knees. Whole warehouses and offices would function as ad hoc mausoleums. RELATED ARTICLES In the Beginning, There Was Kaypro (Requires Flash plug-in from Macromedia) If You Can Bring Yourself to Part With It . . . 10 Uses for a Dead Computer Fish tank. But it s a lot of work to make it waterproof. Litter box. If your kitty isn t too picky. Decoration. Chips and circuit boards can be made into earrings and clipboards. Gold mine. Many 60 s units used a fair amount of gold. Furniture. Use it as doorstop or high-tech hassock. Reincarnation. Use it to play old games or upgrade it to use as a backup device or personal Web server. Planet saver. Recycle it and feel noble. Source of cash. But not much. Sell it to a secondhand-computer shop. Gift. If it s still breathing, donate it to a good cause or give it to a friend or relative. Boat anchor.
The New York Times
And only the diligent few, whether out of conscience or lack of space, would dispose of the departed properly. The rest, unable to let go or to find a proper resting place, would offer excuses like, "He cost me so much money in life. I can't accept that he's worthless now!" and, "She was a formative influence in my youth. How can I dump her?" Of course, it makes about as much sense to do nothing with antiquated computers as it did for the eccentric family in John Irving's "Hotel New Hampshire" to stuff their dead little dog and keep him around the house long after his barking and fetching days were past. Yet researchers believe that roughly 14 million to 20 million computers are retired each year in this country, and of those, a 1995 Tufts University thesis estimated, nearly 75 percent are simply stockpiled, taking their place on obscure shelves, under Ping-Pong tables, in unused offices, in hallways. Only 10 percent to 15 percent of them will be re-used or recycled, studies indicated, and 15 percent end up in landfills. True, those numbers are changing, say many involved in the burgeoning businesses of giving old computers new life. In the last few years, thousands of computer reselling and recycling outfits have cropped up around the country, a recent Rand Corp. report said. And the stream those resellers and recyclers depend on -- of functional but dull-edged castoffs -- has swollen as the typical active life span of a new computer in its original work setting has shrunk to as little as two or three years. The companies that funnel older computers to schools and to the technologically needy have been multiplying and are becoming an increasingly national phenomenon, spurred by new tax incentives and the sheer volume of discards. Whole directories on the Internet list groups that take old computers. One of the largest such funnelers, the Detwiler Foundation, based in San Diego, has already placed 37,000 computers in California schools and is branching out into at least nine other states. The federal government is running a program, Computers for Learning, to place hundreds of thousands of old government computers in schools. "When you're flushing a million computers out every year, they disappear like ink into blotting paper," said Clive Smith, chief executive officer of New Deal, a Cambridge, Mass., company specializing in software that lets older computers act like newer ones. "When you're flushing 10 million a year, the market mechanisms have to emerge to deal with it." And emerging they are. But the juiciest mystery inherent in "closetware," as some call the squirreled-away old computers, is why it has taken so long, and why, even now, so few older computers are promptly resold or donated. Credit: Keith Meyers / The New York Times Computers await meltdown. Certainly, those in the business say, owners' emotional attachment to old computers plays a role. At the East West Education Development Foundation, a Boston nonprofit company that refurbishes and supplies old computers to good causes, the president, Stephen Farrell, said that for donors who bring in their obsolete machines, "it's like bringing your dog to be euthanized -- it's really hard to part with." Brigitte Jordan, a corporate anthropologist and principal scientist at Xerox's research center in Palo Alto, Calif., speculated that owners' attachments to their computers went beyond even the powerful attachments they can form to their cars, in part because computers are so much more interactive and in part because the machines can become repositories of parts of their owners' lives. Of her own first computer, Ms. Jordan said: "It had not only my work on it but my poems and stories on it. It had on it a sort of snapshot of my life at that time, and when I got a new machine, not all of that got transferred. Somehow, in the transition from one machine to another, some piece of my life got lost. It's like losing a photo album." Personal attachments to personal computers are one thing; professional ones are another. Love of machine can be so great that operators of early computers, like the room-size Univac, have been known to take them home when they were decommissioned, said Oliver Strimpel, director of the Computer Museum in Boston. At the museum's Silicon Valley historical collection in Mountain View, Calif., he said, "I've seen people hugging disk drives and computers like long-lost friends they've spent big parts of their lives with." Also seemingly at work in owners' clinging to their computers is a certain inability to accept the harsh economic reality of computer depreciation -- the fact that a machine that cost $3,000 just four years ago is now worth less than $100. In 1991, H. Scott Matthews, then an undergraduate student at Carnegie Mellon University, helped produce a study that predicted that by 2005, 150 million computers would be cluttering the country's landfills. Last year, Matthews returned to the much-quoted study, re-evaluated its predictions based on updated figures and lowered that projection, to 55 million. He and his co-authors cited the "second life" given computers by newly established markets for recycled electronic goods as a central reason for the revised estimate. But the biggest reason for the change, he said, was something else: "I think the fundamental behavioral issue we did not consider in the first paper, that we do now, is that people don't want to throw away anything that they think has value. If you have something you paid a couple of thousand of dollars for, you're going to have a hard time throwing it away, even if you don't use it anymore." Especially if it still works fine. But aren't Americans supposed to be experts at throwing things away? Credit: Ed Quinn for The New York Times Scott Cole of Boston with old mice. "This is the opposite of the disposable society," said Matthews, now a doctoral candidate in economics at Carnegie Mellon's Green Design Initiative. "This is the attic society." Robert Dangelmeyer, a service manager for the Digital Equipment Corp., said that according to four computer-price databases he had examined, computers tended to lose 80 percent of their market value in the first year after purchase. Then their worth levels out for a year or so, he said, before plunging practically to zero. That hurts both individuals and institutions or businesses. In 1993, said Kenneth D. Campbell, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the university bought a supercomputer for its Laboratory for Computer Science that at that point was the 17th-most-powerful computer in the world. It cost $3.8 million. When the computer, the CM5, was shut down four years later, still the 497th-most-powerful computer in the world, he said, the best offer the university could get for it was $750. It decided to donate it to the Computer Museum instead. Museums and collectors, however, generally seek only rare and historically valuable computers. Strimpel, of the Computer Museum, said that any machine produced before 1960 was generally worth preserving; some from the 1960s, like the IBM System 360 series, are and some aren't. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 06:39:11 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 4P gate array help In-Reply-To: Keith Whitehead "TRS80 Model 4P gate array help" (Mar 13, 16:54) References: Message-ID: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 13, 16:54, Keith Whitehead wrote: > Ok...here's the problem > The machine come up with garbage on the screen.It would also seem that the > video is inverted, I can see the retrace lines etc, so the horizontal > blanking is not working either by the looks of it. > > What I suspect is wrong is that either U42 (the 6845 labeled in my machine > as a motorola SC80757P) or U102 (the 4.3 video support chip) is faulty (or > both?). The 6845 isn't much more than a programmable video timing generator. Since you have *some* video, it's unlikely to be at fault. It could be a memory-addressing problem, or a bad connection, or... My first suggestion would be to *gently* prise each socketed chip from it's socket, and reseat them all. This helps clean any oxidation off the pins at the point of contact. Used to be a favourite problem with Apple ]['s, but it's a widely-applicable technique. I don't wish to teach my granny to suck eggs, but I'd also suggest you take care that *all* the pins go back in the socket when you reseat anything; it's not hard to bend a pin underneath sometimes. For many years I was a component-level repair technician for an education authority, and I once had someone bring me a malfunctioning machine which had that problem. When I pointed it out, the response was "but NEARLY all the pins are in, and it doesn't work AT ALL". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 06:56:17 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza "Re: digital group Z80 computer" (Mar 12, 22:01) References: Message-ID: <9803131256.ZM19884@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 12, 22:01, Doug Yowza wrote: > Speaking of IMSAI's, I just bought a PROM/RAM board from somebody (it's on > its way) without knowing exactly what it is (that's my standard MO). All > I know is that it's a Vector Graphics board for an IMSAI (and comes with > the original receipt from IMS, as well as an original IMSAI catalog!) and > I can tell from Bill R's Tandy catalog > (http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/Tandy_TOC_Frames_Page.htm) > that it was intended as a front-panel replacement (are your fingers red > and swolen?). > > My guess is that a PROM/RAM board is sort of a ROM emulator. Am I close, > or is it just a board that can handle PROMs and RAMs? I'd expect it's just a board that can hold either PROMs or static RAM. A "ROM emulator" usually refers to some plug-in device, often controlled by a logic analyser or EPROM programmer with a ribbon cable, that pretends to be a ROM. Used for development purposes: instead of switching the machine off, counting to 15, pulling the EPROM, blowing another, fitting it, straightening the pins, fitting it again, powerering up... you can modify the code on the fly (or while the machine is halted). Do you mean it's a board that can do vector graphics, or that it was made by "Vector Graphics"? I assume the latter, as the former doesn't fit with the rest of your description. A "front panel replacement" usually means a ROM/PROM/EPROM board with bootstrap and perhaps monitor code, so you could type simple commands and get a (textual) response on a VDU instead of having to toggle the switches and watch the blinkenlights. Quite often, ROM boards could be could be jumpered for different addresses, not just a bootstrap address, and sometimes they could hold byte-wide static RAM instead of byte-wide EPROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 13 08:19:12 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... References: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> Message-ID: <35094060.4107E704@crl.com> Adam Fritzler wrote: > > I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems > to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy > connectors. > > I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these > things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: > > SMC-70G Micro Computer > ??????? Genlocker > SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit > SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer > SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? > SMI-7075 Videotizer I have two of the SMI-7050 disk cache units, plus a SMI-7031 RS232 Interface unit. Seems you got all the interesting modules ;) Also, I've got a still sealed in plastic dual floppy drive unit. Maybe the ones installed in the unit are bad? Someone has put a sticker on the system that says, "Ship back to Sony." > > Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that > equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone > has them!) > > The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I > get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't > currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. Mine seems functional too, as I get typical bootstrap activities, but I don't have a video cable to see what's really going on. Can anyone tell me the pinout so I can make one? And of course, if I get video, I'll too need help with software... I've found very little mention of this machine via search engines. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 13 08:16:07 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment Message-ID: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: - Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) - Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) - Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you buy? -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 13 08:50:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: VAXServers Message-ID: <199803131450.AA23052@world.std.com> Recently there were a number of VAXservers offered from VCC. The disposition is they are gone. Some comments for those that are curious. They were VAXservers (KA410e) meaning they do not have the graphic console and they are old and as 3100s go slow. Compared to a m30, m38, m80 series these are the slowest models. So if you not familiar with VAXen...they were designed and intended as cheap servers. Each one weights about 20-25 pounds basic weight of the 3100 pizza box regardless of model. I priced packaging and shipping in the USA as $30-50 each (even the tape drives weigh alot!). Thy may be small but they weigh a lot. That's a lot of money. I can't deal with it. So I'm not into shipping them. Many people wanted one shipped from VCC and none took into account that the source had a job to do and no time or resources to pack them and send them to indiviuals for free and there was no way to recover the cost back. Me I'm broke so I can't lay out cash to ship them. Take this as a hint when trying to procure systems/pieces. The source generally desires LOW EFFORT/COST meaning you pick it up. Allison From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 13 11:20:19 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > You, sir, have not seen many real computer rooms. Some of the plainest > looking buildings have the most impressive computer rooms. Of those that I > frequent, the best have been MCI sites (old things - VAXen, HP1000s, IBM > S/1s, etc.), banks (big IBM iron, _including_ S/360 remnants), and AOL > (yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of > serious machines, but all recent). The only MCI site I've been in had Sun's and crappy NT boxes (on Compaq servers). Nothing exciting, except that it comprised MCI's CampusMCI internet backbone, which was kinda cool. Oh, and it did house my stuff which made it respectable :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 13 11:34:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment References: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Message-ID: <35096E24.984FB06D@bbtel.com> Greg Troutman wrote: > Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them > because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room > around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all > familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get > one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: > > - Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) > - Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) > - Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty > memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" > floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) > > All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you > buy? In my opinion they need to pay YOU to take the Sanyo. They're real dogs and if they don't have the specially modified DOS that goes with it then it's not even a good paperweight. I had one for some time and I was so glad to get a clone and sell the Sanyo (I spell it Say-No anymore). There wasn't any support from Sanyo on them back in the mid 80's and there's virually none now. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 11:57:41 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >> >> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >> There's one already! > > Oops. Missed it. How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of the powerPC, what was it, 801? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Mar 13 11:56:31 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Sun3x boot prom In-Reply-To: <199803130027.TAA26420@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 12, 98 07:27:29 pm Message-ID: <199803131756.JAA17557@fraser.sfu.ca> Go to the netBSD site and find the link to the "Sun 3/3x Archive", it tells you how to do this. Kevin > > > Anyone remember how to set the default boot drive on a Sun3? > This is not a Sun4, so the monitor commands are completely different > from anything manufactured in the last ten years.... > > Thanks! > --jmg > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 12:07:27 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313120727.0098d100@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:57 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >>It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >>> >>> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >>> There's one already! >> >> Oops. Missed it. > >How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >the powerPC, what was it, 801? > > PC/RT? Anyone want to get rid of one? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 12:18:47 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <35094060.4107E704@crl.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Mine seems functional too, as I get typical bootstrap activities, but I > don't have a video cable to see what's really going on. Can anyone tell > me the pinout so I can make one? And of course, if I get video, I'll > too need help with software... I've found very little mention of this > machine via search engines. If you have the Genlocker, plug in a TV set into the 'Sync' BNC connector (the 4th one on the right, on the left side of the box). Then switch the switch next to it to 'BW' instead of 'Sync'. It's black and white, but the best posible without a RGB monitor capable of that. It seems to work ok. (Still not much good without an OS...) Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ---------- From engine at chac.org Fri Mar 13 12:28:15 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> At 12:39 3/13/98 GMT, Pete wrote: >I don't wish to teach my granny to suck eggs, but I'd also suggest you take >care that *all* the pins go back in the socket when you reseat anything; it's >not hard to bend a pin underneath sometimes.... Baaaad memories of populating an Everex 3MB XMS card (256K DRAM x 108) and folding one pin in the first bank.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 13 12:59:15 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Adam Fritzler wrote: > I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems > to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy > connectors. > > I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these > things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: > > SMC-70G Micro Computer > ??????? Genlocker > SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit > SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer > SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? > SMI-7075 Videotizer > > Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that > equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone > has them!) I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor (Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s will support your 'odd pieces' however. If you are interested, send me private e-mail and we'll see what can be worked out. - don > The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I > get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't > currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. > > Thanks, > Adam > ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) > http://afritz.base.org/ > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 12:52:40 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> References: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> At 10:28 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: [snip] > Baaaad memories of populating an Everex 3MB XMS card (256K DRAM x 108) >and folding one pin in the first bank.... > 256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K expansions for the PCjr. We ended up with a production line with a handmade pin bending jig and inserter. Not only were they hell to populate, but when the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 a pop. I can't tell you how glad I was when those new-fangled SIMM-thingies came out. Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 13 13:03:47 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: >How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >the powerPC, what was it, 801? I thought we were just looking for System/x or Series/x systems. Here's what I can think of: Series/1 minicomputer 1977-1991 Advanced(or sometimes Application) System/400 minicomputer 1988-xxxx System/88 minicomputer? Around about the same time as the Series/1 System/3 minicomputer This is an old one... System/23 I guess this would be a minicomputer/terminal combo... System/32 I'm pretty sure this existed, or maybe all these numbers are mixing me up System/34 minicomputer from the mid to late 70's Then came the System/38, And THEN the System/36! Personal System/2(8088-486) Around 1990 or so. Personal System/1 I don't know anything about these... System/360 Mainframe from the 60's... Kinda funny. 360 as in all-around computing, and it matches the year, too... System/370 Mainframe from the 70's... System/390 Mainframe from the 90's... Hey, what happened to the 80's? RS/6000 Big powerful workstations... ES/9000 The newest mainframes, IIRC I like minicomputers, but mainframes are a bit much. Too big, need too much power, too much maintenance, too expensive... Minicomputers are just plain cool. I think over on midrange-l someone said that there was a System/34 below a fire in an office building, 8" of water on the floor by the time everything was over. They drained the room(and I assume dried out the computer) and it started right up! As for micros, they are a pain in the ***... Same goes for any computer with a screwed up OS and no install tapes(in this case, my Apollo 3500. Although I think I almost have the tape drive working...). --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 13 13:33:47 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980313143347.009f43c0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw David Wollmann typed: [snip] >Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic >retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a >mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Why trash the mobo? If yer just gonna throw 'em out, I'll pay shipping/packing to get them to me. I've replaced SIMM sockets on '386's & stuff, they're really not that hard if you have the tools (decent solder sucker, good soldering iron, *fine* solder, etc.). I don't suspect I'd have any problems with 72-pinners, tho I've never done any (due to never had any thrown [out] at me before...). Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 13:28:08 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: David Wollmann "Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)" (Mar 13, 12:52) References: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9803131928.ZM20797@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 13, 12:52, David Wollmann wrote: > Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic > retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. They're not usually very hard to replace. I've fixed at least two motherboards such as you describe by using the SIMM sockets swiped from one that really was DBR. Even new SIMM sockets aren't expensive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 13:21:46 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313120727.0098d100@pop3.webzone.net> References: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313132146.0083bbd0@pop3.webzone.net> At 12:07 PM 3/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 09:57 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >>>> >>>> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >>>> There's one already! >>> >>> Oops. Missed it. >> >>How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >>the powerPC, what was it, 801? >> >> > >PC/RT? > Oops, just remembered the PC/360. Yup, an XT with channel card and other goodies. IIRC, was only good for programmers to work offline. David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From engine at chac.org Fri Mar 13 14:06:54 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313120654.00f77620@pop.batnet.com> At 12:52 3/13/98 -0600, David wrote: >256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K >expansions for the PCjr....Not only were they hell to populate, but when >the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 >a pop. The thing about those Everex 3MB XMS cards was, I actually did several of them (groan) with DRAM I'd stocked up on. At the worst of the RAM spike, the best price I could have gotten on 256K DRAM was US$12.45 per chip. Which made those d**n Everex cards worth, nominally, over $1300 each.... but we just gritted our teeth, because a 9-chip 1MB 30-pin SIMM was $595! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Mar 13 14:33:22 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <1998Mar13.153035.1767.88077@smtp.itgonline.com> I used to populate the XMS cards with 256K DRAM as well, largest being 2MB (72 chips). As I recall, the 256K DRAM dips were down to about $2.50~$3.50 a pop when our benevolent Congress stepped in to help us and the price rose to the $12.00+ range. I was impressed. We had orders to fill and were being burned bad.... those weren't the days. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/13/98 3:17 PM At 12:52 3/13/98 -0600, David wrote: >256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K >expansions for the PCjr....Not only were they hell to populate, but when >the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 >a pop. The thing about those Everex 3MB XMS cards was, I actually did several of them (groan) with DRAM I'd stocked up on. At the worst of the RAM spike, the best price I could have gotten on 256K DRAM was US$12.45 per chip. Which made those d**n Everex cards worth, nominally, over $1300 each.... but we just gritted our teeth, because a 9-chip 1MB 30-pin SIMM was $595! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar13.151714.1767.31564; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:17:17 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA16957; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:44 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA19848 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:27 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id MAA28221 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:26 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13871; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:08:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980313120654.00f77620@pop.batnet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:06:54 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 13 16:00:39 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article References: <01bd4e65$1a6c23c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3509AC86.6F74@digiweb.com> Pete Joules wrote: > I got into the web site today, out of interest, and went as far as the > registration page which is working today. They want $35 per month from > foreigners just to enter the site :-( I know, but if you lie and say you're from the US, you get in for free! All you need is a zip code. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 14:54:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: What sort of Model 4 CPU board is this? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/97ecd8ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 15:03:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1227 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/42b8ee84/attachment.ksh From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 16:41:59 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... Message-ID: <199803132239.RAA08238@ren.globecomm.net> At 10:59 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor >(Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s >will support your 'odd pieces' however. Are these things readable by PC floppy drives or do they use an odd geometry/layout (eg, Apple)? If so, images of them would be nice. Otherwise, I guess I can find a way to get them out here (AZ). Adam ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) http://afritz.base.org/ http://www.primenet.com/~afritz/ Linux/mac68k: (Linux for 68k Macintoshes) http://www.maclinux.org/ http://www.afritz.base.org/linux-mac68k/ Linux/MIPS for DECstations (Linux for MIPS DECstations) http://decstation.unix-ag.org http://www1.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/index.html From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 13 12:59:28 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm Message-ID: <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> > > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Also on cheapie motherboard the contact fingers were too soft and had to bend the board other way when installing the simms. > I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't > understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a > motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a > time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. > Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. That's what I would do if the latch is broken. > There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering > iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. Duh! Truly 100% folkore story! :) > BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the > surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an > entertainment... Not that only one, I have few cheap simms with bad plate-thoughs. Wow. > Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my > spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs > in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. There was one oddball design of this simm that used soldered DIP's but one chip is outside one side of the socket with traces around the cutout for the one latch! That was used heavily samsung or hyduani built Peecees in that early 90s. Few of that simms had chips went bad from group of 3 machines. Very high failure rate and chips is hyundai made. Of course I repaired them by removing all 9 chips and test them one by one on other PC with socketed memory until dud is found. Then resolder them all in! In these days it was appox 20 a stick for 256k x 9 80ns. Ditto on one hyperion portable after 21 chips later bad memory chip was found. Not fun that all of this are soldered in and that was 2 years ago. Did bent few Dip's in few machines including a compaq 286 deskpro, the motherboard is one of a kind, takes 72 256k chips to make 2mb. Took a while to find the guilty because hard to see ic with bent leg. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Mar 13 18:17:08 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <19980314001708.29424.qmail@hotmail.com> The reason why people think it's "illegal" to solder PC parts is because high temeratures can damage semiconductors, or so it says on every soldering guide I have ever seen. That's what those heat sinks are for. Now about the sockets, I'd imagine quite a few SIMMS were broken trying to fit them in. While mostly, it's easy, I had to pound on some DIMMS I was installing into 10 Macs recently. By the way, does anyone want an Orchid RAM expansion board for a PS/2? Sorry, no driver files or anything. I will give it for free. AFAIK, it works and has either 1, 1.5, or 2 MB RAM on it. > >I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't >understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a >motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a >time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. >Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. > >There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering >iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. > >BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the >surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an >entertainment... > >Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my >spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs >in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. > >I think it came from an Amstrad machine, and I think there are diagrams >of them in some Amstrad service manuals. > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 17:58:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Mar 13, 98 06:59:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/c2855e91/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 17:53:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <19980314001708.29424.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 13, 98 04:17:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1440 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/293573d4/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 13 19:23:20 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: i've got a PCRT, the desktop form factor, but i need the proprietary keyboard. any leads? david In a message dated 98-03-13 13:17:41 EST, you write: << PC/RT? Anyone want to get rid of one? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >> From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 19:31:37 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <000601bd4ee8$ee9fc830$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the >surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an >entertainment... > >Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my >spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs >in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. Those are adapter boards to convert old DIP DRAMS into SIMMs. I did a bunch when 1MB SIMMs were $50 each. There are still places that sell them, JDR in California for one. Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 19:40:35 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Well, obviously you use the right tools :-). Attacking any computer board >with a sheet-metal iron is going to do some damage. But I don't >understand why a PC motherboard is any more fragile than (say) a board >from a minicomputer, workstation, or whatever. Well, for one thing old boards used .1 inch traces, now with surface mount it's .05 or .025. I don;t know about you, but my hand (wasted from advanced age and hard living) isn't steady enough to solder a surface mount IC. Jack Peacock From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 13 21:01:47 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> At 06:16 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them >because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room >around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all >familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get >one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: > >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) Yes, CPM system. I've seen two of these for sale in in the past week. Apparently they sold most of these as word processors and not as computers. These require the special 3 inch disks, so you may want to be sure it includes some since they're hard to find. >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) A pain in the A__! I used to have one. I requies special DOS and won't run a lot of the MS-DOS software, Skip it! >- Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty >memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" >floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) > >All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you >buy? Definitely not the Sanyo! Joe > >-- >mor@crl.com >http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 13 20:21:07 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803140221.AA13448@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 13, 98 09:21:07 pm Message-ID: <9803140228.AA15594@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/51aaccba/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Fri Mar 13 20:23:22 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3509EA1A.43B19877@rain.org> Jack Peacock wrote: > Well, for one thing old boards used .1 inch traces, now with > surface mount it's .05 or .025. I don;t know about you, but my > hand (wasted from advanced age and hard living) isn't steady > enough to solder a surface mount IC. Just pointing out a misplaced decimal point. IN CP/M days, the .1 inch traces (and wider) would have been used for power distribution, and most of the normal traces were in the .025" range. Currently, standard design practice seems to be 8 - 10 mil lines although higher density boards can get smaller tracewidths. I found the best way to deal with surface mount components is under a microscope :). From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 13 20:28:41 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-13 21:22:35 EST, you write: << > with all this talk of soldering and desoldering, is it possible for a layman to do this with just a regular low wattage soldering iron? any tips from the pros? david From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:33 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313115141.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> At 11:09 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >The reason I can't say the same for CD-ROM's is that I don't have any that >are more than a decade old. Some of my floppies will be 30 years old >pretty soon. I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. (P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:37 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313115623.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> At 02:25 PM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >There's also the problem that folks seem to think that CD-R's are >indestructable so they do not take care of them (i.e. not putting them back >in the jewel cases, playing shuffleboard with them, etc.). CD's too. I saw a guy pull a stack of 15-20 CD's out of his pocket, no case or anything, and start shuffling through them like a deck of cards. Picked one out, put it on the seat beside him, took the CD out of his player, and put it and the rest back in his pocket. I guess they still worked (though his player had a (I think) 10 second buffer, so it has plenty of time to do retries.) 'course he didn't look like the sort of bloke who listened to anything older than a week. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:42 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313120009.739f402c@ricochet.net> At 07:17 PM 3/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >PCW8256/PCW8512 : AMSM8256/8512 5.48 I have one of these manuals, with some waterlogging, if anyone wants to avoid UK shipping. Cost is $.55 + shipping from San Francisco. (that's 55 cents, which includes a 1 cent profit. I'm gonna be rich! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:40:18 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313173159.76cf97d6@ricochet.net> At 06:16 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room >around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all Ah, I'm not alone! 8^) > >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) "Personal Computer Word Processor" I have book 1 of the "User Guide - CP/M Logo & Word Processor Manual". Seems like it came with "LocaScript" a WP, DR Logo, and CP/M Plus. A pretty interesting looking machine, actually. >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) Not exactly "straight". Semi-compatible, iirc. Very early in the PC timeline, and probably pretty significant. >- Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty >memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" >floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) Could be an AT&T 6300; I seem to remember Olivetti and AT&T worked together or something. >All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you >buy? Well, depends on your interests. If you're interested in PC (i.e., Intel x86/MS-DOS) history, definitely go for the Sanyo. If you're more into the older, more proprietary systems (S-100 stuff/CP/M) go for the amstrad. If you're a Unix/workstation person (Sun, Apollo, UnixPC, etc.) or perhaps into foreign stuff or something, go for the Olivetti. (Note, I don't *know* that the Olivetti runs Unix or anything, just a longshot possibility.) Me, I'd probably go for the Sanyo first, then the Amstrad. The amstrad, btw, came with a printer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:45:53 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980313115141.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> Message-ID: > I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. > (P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) I agree. At a college station I was involved with (WMSE in Milwaukee - I once let the cheeseheads endure all four minutes of "Swallowing Scrap Metal", a rather nasty noisework), we had some of the very first disks pressed for the public. They are still good (just a bit torn up from years of use). CD-ROMs, at least the pressed ones, will be good for years to come... William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:49:18 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The only MCI site I've been in had Sun's and crappy NT boxes (on Compaq > servers). Nothing exciting, except that it comprised MCI's CampusMCI > internet backbone, which was kinda cool. Oh, and it did house my stuff > which made it respectable :) The colo (colocation) rooms generally have the old stuff. You can bet that I am going to follow the fate of a certain IBM RS/6000 SP that is sitting in one (can not tell you where)... William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:50:41 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: > How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of > the powerPC, what was it, 801? Yes, they were series, but never marketted as such (S/7090? Never heard of it). The family name did not exist. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 21:01:23 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add to the Rollins list... > Series/1 minicomputer 1977-1991 The PDP-11 killer that flopped. I think they were dead in the mid 1980s, although perhaps support lasted until 1991. > Advanced(or sometimes Application) System/400 minicomputer 1988-xxxx Probably the only minicomputer I know of that was advertised on television (the MASH crew). I think they were announced before 1988. > System/88 minicomputer? Around about the same time as the Series/1 An oddball. A _repackaged_ Stratus machine! > System/3 minicomputer This is an old one... IBMs first mini. > System/23 I guess this would be a minicomputer/terminal combo... A good try at a small business micro, but a flop in the long run. > System/32 I'm pretty sure this existed, or maybe all these numbers are > mixing me up > System/34 minicomputer from the mid to late 70's > Then came the System/38, > And THEN the System/36! I know little about the S/32s. Anyone? Anyone? > Personal System/2(8088-486) Around 1990 or so. People love 'em, people hate 'em, but they sure made IBM a bundle of money. > Personal System/1 I don't know anything about these... Another stab at the PeeCee market, but again, a failure. > System/360 Mainframe from the 60's... Kinda funny. 360 as in all-around > computing, and it matches the year, too... They were also still in production in the 1970s. > System/370 Mainframe from the 70's... The family with THE BEST control panels ever. That includes KI-10s. > System/390 Mainframe from the 90's... Hey, what happened to the 80's? Thier current line, and selling like crazy. People are starting to once again, enjoy the reliability and stability of old iron, now for web hosting! > RS/6000 Big powerful workstations... And they are not even RISC. Damn marketers. > ES/9000 The newest mainframes, IIRC No, the S/390s are. The only one not here is the S/4, an odd family made for airborne environments. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 21:11:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ah, you mean their collection of Auspex File Servers, they are one of > Auspexes two major customers. Interesting Hardware, I got to check out the > hardware on their latest yesterday, they're really packing the drives in > the new machines. Still trying to figure out how all the data on the new > machines can be backed up in a timely manner. No, the Auspex boxes are in the minority. To keep one million users active at once, LOTs of Unix boxes are needed! William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:16:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 13, 98 05:40:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 781 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/cb251550/attachment.ksh From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Mar 12 22:28:16 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions Message-ID: <199803140326.NAA29179@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! I had some luck today, and picked up and Amstrad CPC464, two IBM JX's, and an Altos 486. No idea what I'll do with the spare JX - but they are neat. Did it take JR cartridges, or ones of it's own? And does anyone know whether they had to have their own system disks, or could they boot off standard DOS? Currently I'm stuck with the default BASIC. The Altos is something new for me - it appears to be from 1984, and has a number of ports for terminals on the back. It says that it is running a 4186 as the cpu, but I don't know that one and the cpu is covered by the power supply. Was this actually the 80186, or something else? And does anyone know anything about Altos and the Altos 486? Thanks heaps, Adam. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Mar 13 21:45:24 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <199803132239.RAA08238@ren.globecomm.net> from "Adam Fritzler" at Mar 13, 98 03:41:59 pm Message-ID: <199803140345.WAA28440@shell.monmouth.com> > > At 10:59 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > > >I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor > >(Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s > >will support your 'odd pieces' however. > > Are these things readable by PC floppy drives or do they use an odd > geometry/layout (eg, Apple)? If so, images of them would be nice. > Otherwise, I guess I can find a way to get them out here (AZ). > > Adam > > ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) > http://afritz.base.org/ > http://www.primenet.com/~afritz/ > Linux/mac68k: (Linux for 68k Macintoshes) > http://www.maclinux.org/ > http://www.afritz.base.org/linux-mac68k/ > Linux/MIPS for DECstations (Linux for MIPS DECstations) > http://decstation.unix-ag.org > http://www1.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/index.html > > They're readable by PC (although Single Sided). I think Teledisk should work to allow making them into files and recreating the original disks. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:48:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 13, 98 09:01:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1641 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/8a0f45b7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:39:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE" at Mar 13, 98 09:28:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4808 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/4fa23af4/attachment.ksh From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 13 22:46:19 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 13, 98 05:40:35 pm Message-ID: >The trick is not to worry about bridging connections. Solder the chip >down and then use desolder braid (solder wick) to clean off the excess >solder. And don't forget a very fine tip for the iron... Or better yet, save up for a reflow station! I saw an ad in Nuts'n'Volts for one that was only $1200... But first I think I'll get a nice Weller to replace my peice of crap Radio Shack 15/30W switchable iron. I have my eye on one of those <$100 variable power Wellers, I don't remember which model but there are two of them. I think one sells for $99 and the other for around $50 or so. And some of the desoldering braids would be nice, too. Those desoldering bulbs are HORRIBLE. Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for the motorized vacuum pump models. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 13 22:53:49 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: from "John Rollins" at Mar 13, 98 08:46:19 pm Message-ID: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/03dbdcdc/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 14 00:29:59 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <199803140221.AA13448@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314012959.00a77d40@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: >FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked cards >a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! Old days??? I recovered chips using this method a few months ago... The newer boards are actually nicer for this type of recovery, because the solder seems to melt at a lower temp. then the 20-year-old boards... >Obviously >the board would get toasted but you could get the chips off fairly clean >and fast. Though once I seriously over did it on the heat. The result >is a old 7400 that is bent some in the middle...it still worked! Cool! If one is careful, there is more than just chips that can be recovered using this method -- at one point in time I could recover usable chip sockets (even some 40-pinners) that I'm still using for other projects, and I now have a *boatload* of 8-switch DIP switch packages for my hardware playing... I received 50-60 ArcNet cards from my ex-ex-employer, and a lot of the chips were doing me more good singly, so I desoldered roughly 35 of 'em... but I saved 15 or so cards (3 of each type, IIRC) and the Active Hub -- just in case I wanna set up my own ArcNet network at home... ;-) Grab that torch, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 14 00:45:01 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron Options In-Reply-To: References: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314014501.00a89820@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Tony Duell typed: >I would _strongly_ recomend buying a good temperature-controlled >soldering iron if you are serious about computer repair. It'll cost ><$100, and it'll save a lot of time/hassle. I don't have one of these (I'd love to have one), but... >I am told that a butane soldering iron, like the Weller Pyropen with a >hot air tip is almost ideal for surface-mount repairs. I've not got one >(yet!), though. My Weller butane iron (to my knowledge) isn't called a "Pyropen", but that could be just a UK name thing... Spec's on my Weller: it's a butane-fired adjustable-heat soldering iron with removable tips & a sparker built-in to the protective cap, and the whole thing fits into my shirt pocket (The *ultimate* geek-wear! ;-) ... cost me $70 USD but well worth it. The tips I received in the package were the standard-sized soldering tip, the hot-knife, the blowtorch (great for camping! -- who needs matches???) and the heat-blower. Then, at the local "Dork-RadioShack" they had mis-marked two 1.0mm tips for it at $0.99 USD (instead of $9.99 -- over 90% off!! :-) so I bought both of them! These work great for board soldering, and have done a few of the "larger-part" SMD soldering with no problems whatsoever. (I picked up some 1407 round SMD resistors for really cheap (closeout) from Mouser Electronics) and the job my Weller did was just wonderful! By the by, I've been using that one 1.0mm tip for almost everything for the last two years (including soldering mains power cords) and it's still like brand-new. The other tip should be as classic as my CoCos by the time I have to open it!!! ;-) Thanks to that little wonder, I'm not in *such a hurry* for a full-bore soldering station. ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 14 00:54:42 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: TOday's finds... Message-ID: <00d501bd4f16$1324de20$2cf438cb@nostromo> Today's haul... TWO Aquarius II computers (Serial numbers 8 and 10) Lots of software for the above (cartridges/ cassettes) box of 10 disks for the Aquarius drive (no drive, alas) teletext software/cartridges, several modems for the above Printer for the above Two tape drive units One prototype smart card unit (credit card size card) - for videotext access Prototype Commodore disk drive interfaces (2) for Aquarius Schematics and manuals for Aquarius Extension interface Prototype 16K RAM unit (functional) OSI superboard II with homemade case, including voice synthesis add-on Another good day. I'll be trading at least one of the Aquarius II computers, probably. Offers? Cheers A From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 01:03:51 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? Message-ID: <13339536744.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I convinced the 5363 to give me Service mode. (Diddled with plugs behind the keyswitch until it let me try IPLing.). The IPL fails, someone has nuked these harddisks. (Erased, not destroyed). So, I have the whole set of SSP, RPG, and Utilities disks, how do I do a reload? I have the directions for doing this on a 5360, but not 5363. I'm at the microcode loading stage, but where the 5360 has 1 disk for microcode, I have 2. I can finish loading the 1st disk, but I can't get it to load the second - I don't know how. Anyone know? ------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sat Mar 14 03:12:01 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803111935.TAA18277@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314191201.0068d1d0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 07:35 PM 11-03-98 GMT, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >the "infinite tape" idea is as important as you suggested, however. Of course as an optimization all Turing machine programs can be rewritten to use a semi-infinite tape. Implementing such a Turing machine saves an infinite amount of money compared with one that uses a infinite tape :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sat Mar 14 03:17:07 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314191707.0068b500@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:48 PM 11-03-98 -0800, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >[785 question] >Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? 5 :-) Physically identical (you can upgrade/downgrade to your heart's content). Basically an 11/785 is an 11/780 with a faster CPU. An 11/780 is 1VUP (by definition) and an 11/785 is 1.5VUP. I used to look after (both hardware and software) 11/780s and 11/785s. The last pair were known as black (11/785) and blue (11/780) as the 785 had originally been an Intergraph system and was repainted black. Black and blue also reflected on my fingers/body/etc - these systems are heavy. After having fun with these systems we replaced them with 8800 series VAXen. At one stage I looked after 4 and we had another 2 under Digital maintenance. Now those were the good old days.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 06:11:48 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <13339536744.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> At 11:03 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >I convinced the 5363 to give me Service mode. (Diddled with plugs behind >the keyswitch until it let me try IPLing.). The IPL fails, someone has >nuked these harddisks. (Erased, not destroyed). So, I have the whole >set of SSP, RPG, and Utilities disks, how do I do a reload? I have the directions >for doing this on a 5360, but not 5363. I'm at the microcode loading stage, >but where the 5360 has 1 disk for microcode, I have 2. I can finish loading >the 1st disk, but I can't get it to load the second - I don't know how. >Anyone know? >------- > I just did this on a new (new to my 5363) disk about one year ago. I have a manual page here somewhere with all the details--if I can find it I'll send you the info later. If you're in a big hurry, do a DejaNews search in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc on "microcode load" or something along those lines. I know it's been discussed there in the last year or so. You should also try to install the latest PTFs if you have them. You wouldn't happen to have S/36 Common Ordinary Business Obfuscation Language would you? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 06:20:38 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions In-Reply-To: <199803140326.NAA29179@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314062038.00a0e740@pop3.webzone.net> At 01:58 PM 3/13/98 +0930, you wrote: >Hi! > >I had some luck today, and picked up and Amstrad CPC464, two IBM JX's, >and an Altos 486. No idea what I'll do with the spare JX - but they are >neat. Did it take JR cartridges, or ones of it's own? And does anyone >know whether they had to have their own system disks, or could they boot >off standard DOS? Currently I'm stuck with the default BASIC. The infamous Japanese PCjr? The JX was the last straw for the jr community. When we heard about it we though IBM was fixing to revive the jr--little did we know. Is there any chance you could post a couple snapshots of the JX somewhere? I'd love to have a look at one so I can cry in my beer. IIRC, the JX could boot PC-DOS 2.10. If it's inwards are anything like the PCjr, it's a 128K box, so unless it has been expanded, you're probably stuck with DOS 2.10 or 3.x. -- Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Mar 13 08:28:12 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions Message-ID: <199803141326.XAA21783@arthur.merlin.net.au> >The infamous Japanese PCjr? The JX was the last straw for the jr community. >When we heard about it we though IBM was fixing to revive the jr--little >did we know. Is there any chance you could post a couple snapshots of the >JX somewhere? I'd love to have a look at one so I can cry in my beer. I opened one of them up to check her out, and have a shot of the system with the cover off. As soonas I get the film proceesed I'll put them up. An ugly beast though - I like them, but they are an ugly dark gray. >IIRC, the JX could boot PC-DOS 2.10. If it's inwards are anything like the >PCjr, it's a 128K box, so unless it has been expanded, you're probably >stuck with DOS 2.10 or 3.x. It seems they were 512k as standard, but there was no seperate video ram so 64k of that was taken. thanks heaps, Adam. From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 08:38:43 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <01bd4f56$e3cebb00$7b62bcc1@hotze> Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, etc.) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From DJM1 at bit-net.com Sat Mar 14 11:45:04 1998 From: DJM1 at bit-net.com (Dennis.M) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Cipher Model ST150S-II Message-ID: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> I recently aquired 3 of these tape drives and have been trying to locate any information on them to see if they are any good/worth useing. I was surfing the web and saw some Email messages you sent concerning these tape drives. Could you share any information you have? I would prove to be most helpful to me. Thank You Dennis Magnan dmagnan@hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/6d517b80/attachment.html From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 10:29:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <13339639720.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [COBOL? Are you NUTS?] Of course not! What do I look like, some kind of a freak or something? It only has RPG II. I did get it to load. The problem was a very large nasty mess of something on the Microcode disk. I had to go dig up another. Now, I have to find out what to DO with it... Apparetly you HAVE to have a printer to do anything useful. Can I go hang a PC printer off this, or do I have to go dig up a twinax printer? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 10:37:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: <01bd4f56$e3cebb00$7b62bcc1@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 14, 98 05:38:43 pm Message-ID: <9803141637.AA16319@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 395 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/402615ca/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 10:46:15 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 10:12:47 am Message-ID: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/e2dfbcd2/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 10:48:19 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Old computers = useless?] It's not that, I'm usually surprised because I though a big company like ATS would have unloaded these just to say "We have no old gear, we use all NEW technology!" I plan to have my uV3100 do something useful once the NetBSD DMA code gets fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:00:08 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 08:48:19 am Message-ID: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/bcc30d6a/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 11:00:02 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <01bd4f6a$a190f000$1e60bcc1@hotze> Could be, but I'm also asking for CLASIC stuff. ;-) I'll check, but seeing as how batelco.com.bh (the ONLY Bahrain ISP... owned by the gov't.) isn't really up to date.... thanks anyway. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 7:39 PM Subject: Re: BBS Server/Clinet Software >> Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS >> program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client >> software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, >> etc.) > >There's an entire "alt.bbs.*" as well as a "comp.bbs.*" hiererarchy on >USENET. Wouldn't that be a more appropriate place to ask? > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Mar 14 11:10:42 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Rant mode on... Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED mailing list. Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 11:09:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339647025.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TCP/IP on a PDP-11] 2. sounds interesting... I think I know where to get a copy of TSX-11... ------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Mar 14 12:23:59 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: Here's what I think the answer is: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Often, when I read email coming out of funky MicroSatan email software, I get the bizarro HTMLesque stuff...especially when I use PINE on one of my Linux boxes, which is pretty much the email software I use always. I don't think the sender INTENDS to send out HTML. If you really look close at such messages, you will see an actual message in there somewhere buried amongst the tags. And I've had friends send me email with exactly the same results which, when read on a client like Eudora or Netscape, look fairly normal. Because it's a MIME-multipart message, I think it contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. The solution is to turn away from MicroSatan and turn your eyes, instead, upon the glorious light of Linux. =-D Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > Rant mode on... > > Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to > be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? > > Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making > it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the > Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED > mailing list. > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:25:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Mar 14, 98 09:10:42 am Message-ID: <9803141725.AA16482@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/9962352c/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:27:30 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339647025.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 09:09:39 am Message-ID: <9803141727.AA06039@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/07ec346f/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 11:34:16 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141727.AA06039@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339651508.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TSX-11] Actually, a guy I know wants to axe the TSX-11 on his 11/53 so he can just talk to RT-11. I could probably just back it up on a TK50 and load it elsewheres. Why he wants to axe TSX, I'm not sure. I'll ask later. This should still be legal, as the origional install is getting destroyed. So only one copy stays in existence. ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 14 11:51:29 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: >fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to >install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? Does the UNIX source license include the ability to use the BSD versions for the PDP-11? I thought the license only covers UNIX Version 1-7 & V32, or is that all that is required to be able to legally obtain a copy of BSD? On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds like it might run on a VAX to me. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 13:05:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314130507.2f7fc28e@intellistar.net> At 02:48 AM 3/14/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) >> >> Yes, CPM system. I've seen two of these for sale in in the past week. >> Apparently they sold most of these as word processors and not as computers. >> These require the special 3 inch disks, so you may want to be sure it >> includes some since they're hard to find. > >It is possible to fit 3.5" drives into these machines. AFAIK, all you >have to do is match up signals between the 34 pin connector on the 3.5" >(720K, of course) drive and the 26 pin connector in the machine. I can >look up pinouts of the latter in the service manual. > >> >> >> >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) >> >> A pain in the A__! I used to have one. I requies special DOS and won't >> run a lot of the MS-DOS software, Skip it! > >All the more reason to save it!. It's a reasonably uncommon machine IMHO. >So what if it doesn't run most MS-DOS software - nor do most of my >machines. We have PC's for that :-) > I used to have tons of software specificly for the Sanyo. I'll have to look and see if any of it's still around. If it is you're welcome to it. I sunk a fortne in my Sanyo, I wouldn't have another one if you gave it to me. I bless the day that the PC clones became available. >Seriously, there are 2 classes of machine in my collection. The first are >machines like (although I hate to say it) the PC I'm typing this on, >PERQs, PDP11's, PDP8's, etc - machines that run useful programs, and are >useful computers. The second is machines which, although interesting >computers, and worth preserving are not so useful. In my case these >consist mainly of home micros. I keep them running, and I use them from >time to time. But if I want to write a letter, or do some programming, I >use one of the first category of machines. Of course how you group your >machines depends on what you want to do with them. > >The Sanyo is in the sceond group IMHO. It's still worth preserving. That's only becuase you never had to try to use one! Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 13:11:51 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314131151.45f747ec@intellistar.net> If you can find the *good* coaxial cable cheap, the braid on it makes great solder wick. Especially the silver plated stuff. Joe At 08:53 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >> And some of the desoldering braids would be nice, too. > >True - and don't bother spending money on the no-name el cheapo brands. >Go straight for the brand names like "Solder Wick". The chemical coating >on the braid makes all the difference in the world! > >Tim. > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 12:17:20 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <19980314181720.7305.qmail@hotmail.com> >Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:39:33 -0600 (CST) Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does it damage CDs or something? > >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 12:17:00 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <13339639720.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314121700.00a14890@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:29 AM 3/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >[COBOL? Are you NUTS?] >Of course not! What do I look like, some kind of a freak or something? >It only has RPG II. I did get it to load. The problem was a very large nasty >mess of something on the Microcode disk. I had to go dig up another. >Now, I have to find out what to DO with it... >Apparetly you HAVE to have a printer to do anything useful. Can I go >hang a PC printer off this, or do I have to go dig up a twinax printer? >------- > At the console: SYSLIST CRT That will put everything to the console. If you don't have a printer, you can put a 5250 card in a cheapo-depo Intel box (anything from XT to 386, but speed may kill in this case), and hang a 5152-compatible printer on it. You'll need PC Support/36. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:25:44 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339651508.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 09:34:16 am Message-ID: <9803141825.AA16589@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/b127ad48/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 12:25:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141825.AA16589@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339660860.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Why do R TSX?] It's in the startup indirect file. I'm told he wants Fuzzball instead of TSX. ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:28:56 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 14, 98 09:51:29 am Message-ID: <9803141828.AA16609@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/4d6eb99b/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Mar 14 13:28:25 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <9803141725.AA16482@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > 3. In some cases, *cannot* configure their software to stop doing it > (i.e. it's being enforced or done by their ISP.) Er...most ISPs (except the really big guys where all bets are off) don't make any modification to email as it passes through their mail servers...IE they just run straight POP and SMTP, which doesn't modify mail messages. Most ISPs don't have any means of "enforcing" how a users email client is configured though they do have instructions for users or suggestions etc. But they don't lock the software to do the HTML stuff in any way. (How do I know all this? Because I'm the top SysAdmin and Network Engineer for a statewide ISP in Iowa.) More likely, if it is being enforced, it's being enforced by the policies of this or that large corporation through which people are sending mail from their desktops. Corporations CAN enforce things through policy. ISPs, as a general rule, don't enforce how client software is configured although they may have anti-spam policies and such. ISPs generally enforce behavior, if that, rather than configuration. I don't want to get into a big off-topic argument over this. I just get tired of ISPs getting blamed for everything. On the other hand, if you are a user having this problem you SHOULD be able to call your ISP and ask them how to reconfigure your client NOT to do the HTML stuff and, if they're worth spit, they should be able to help you. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 12:33:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <19980314183309.24211.qmail@hotmail.com> There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up a BBS at the same number and all connect? >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, >etc.) > Thanks, > >Tim D. Hotze > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:35:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339660860.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 10:25:39 am Message-ID: <9803141835.AA16554@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 712 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/d43e5949/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 14 12:35:24 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 14, 98 09:00:08 am Message-ID: <199803141835.NAA09850@shell.monmouth.com> > > > If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to > > install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? > > No. If you want TCP/IP on a PDP-11, you want one of the following: > > 1. 2.11 BSD. > 2. Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package for RT-11/TSX+. > 3. Process Software's TCP/IP packages for RSX-11 or RSTS/E. > > All of the above are actively being maintained. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Tim -- that means you need seperate I and D space for TCP/IP? (!@#$&* I was hoping for it on a Pro350 with 2.9...) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 12:40:00 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141835.AA16554@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339663474.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [^C the startup indirect] That's what he's doing. [Why fuzzball?] I have no idea! I know I can't get it to run... ------- From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 14 13:39:20 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: <19980314183309.24211.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. > Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) > for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a > question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up > a BBS at the same number and all connect? Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the bottom number. - don > >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a > BBS > >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with > server/client > >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, > >etc.) > > Thanks, > > > >Tim D. Hotze > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 14 14:02:46 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: IIGS Message-ID: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Hi, I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There was no disk drive attached to the IIe. ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 14 13:50:58 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803141950.AA04232@world.std.com> <>FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked card <>a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! < Message-ID: <199803141953.OAA25023@smtp.interlog.com> On 14 Mar 98 at 9:10, Bruce Lane wrote: > Rant mode on... > > Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to > be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? > > Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making > it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the > Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED > mailing list. > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > I'll second that emotion ! The business cards especially screw up my news-reader. Lately I've simply taken to just skipping those messages but it must be a real pain for those on different platforms. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Mar 14 13:54:12 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. References: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <350AE064.76EB6DF8@halcyon.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > I plan to have my uV3100 do something useful once the NetBSD DMA code gets > fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to > install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? > ------- 2.9 has the beginnings of TCP/IP, but you are much better off with 2.11. Dave From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Mar 14 14:01:38 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses References: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <350AE222.F3D3C04F@halcyon.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds > like it might run on a VAX to me. > UNIX 32V was a port of V7 to the VAX done at Bell Labs. I believe it was also ported to a few other 32-bit minis, like the Interdata 32. Dave From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 14 14:16:43 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314121643.00f60740@pop.batnet.com> At 12:23 3/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >I don't think the sender INTENDS to send out HTML. If you really look >close at such messages, you will see an actual message.... >buried amongst the tags....which, when read on a client like Eudora or Netscape, >look fairly normal....it >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important fraction of the traffic. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 14 14:19:23 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: IIGS In-Reply-To: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Message-ID: >I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. >Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? >Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and >an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There >was no disk drive attached to the IIe. The IIgs can use most ADB keyboards, I think there is a list at www.apple2.org. IIRC, all Apple keyboards work, and most normal third-party keyboards work as well. I think a few of the Adesso keyboards have problems, but I've used mine(TruForm with the eraser head pointer) with it and it works fine, the FAQ lists it as usually compatible. As for the IIe/IIgs connection, it sounds more like it was connected with a null modem cable. About as close to networking as you can get without a network... You'll also want to check which ROM version it has, ROM 01 was the first, usually found in the Woz cases, then ROM 2 and then on to the most recent version, ROM 03. ROM 01 supposedly has some problems and should be upgraded, I'm not sure about ROM 2. It will tell you which version when you turn the computer on. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 14 14:28:03 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix Message-ID: <350AE853.F7F38EF2@enterprise.net> I have just got a couple of VT320s and connected one to my MicroVAX II instead of the Wyse 50 that came with it. I see more messages during the boot process now, including a menu at the start asking me what language to use. When I am using Ultrix and running vi how do I get back from edit to command mode - I can't find an Esc key on the VT320? TIA Pete From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 14 14:29:55 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: New web page Message-ID: I finally finished this version of the web page, it now has pictures of all of the expansion cards I have, taken with a Mavica FD-7 digital camera... That is one great camera! Too bad I don't own my own, I had to borrow one(actually, I took the cards to the camera)... The main page is completely different, I made very few modifications to the links, and added/deleted a few things from the computer page. Go check it out at http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Sat Mar 14 15:23:26 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Cipher Model ST150S-II In-Reply-To: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Dennis.M wrote: > I recently aquired 3 of these tape drives and have been trying to locate > any information on them to see if they are any good/worth useing. I was > surfing the web and saw some Email messages you sent concerning these > tape drives. That probably would've been me. I repaired and resold a pile of these drives a few years ago. I should still have all my notes around and maybe even a few parts. Is there anything in particular you were trying to find out? ok r. From spc at armigeron.com Sat Mar 14 15:25:33 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix In-Reply-To: <350AE853.F7F38EF2@enterprise.net> from "Pete Joules" at Mar 14, 98 08:28:03 pm Message-ID: <199803142125.QAA27707@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Pete Joules once stated: > > I have just got a couple of VT320s and connected one to my MicroVAX II > instead of the Wyse 50 that came with it. I see more messages during > the boot process now, including a menu at the start asking me what > language to use. > > When I am using Ultrix and running vi how do I get back from edit to > command mode - I can't find an Esc key on the VT320? Having a VT320, the ESC key can be in one of two places, depending upon how you set up the terminal (F3 for setup): F11 (or rather, where the F11 key would be if labeled as such, on my keyboard it's 'Alt Char') or just to the left of the '1' key (on my keyboard, labeled ~ESC`). One setting puts the ESC on F11, and the ~ESC` key returns ~`, the other setting has the ~ESC` key return ESC and the ~` characters are remapped to the key labeled >< (between the Z and left shift - and annoying me to no end). If all else fails, you can always hit Ctrl-[ to generate an ESC character. -spc (Would like to use the VT320, just ran out of serial ports on my Linux box 8-) From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Mar 14 16:02:48 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <350afdd0.4801708@mail.swbell.net> On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:19 -0800, you said: >Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for >the motorized vacuum pump models. I have two of the "hole-in-the-tip" irons, with tubing but no pump. (Made by Pace, Inc. as I remember) anyone have a pump or ever seen one available? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Mar 14 16:11:52 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <350c0009.5370182@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:39:20 -0800 (PST), you said: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> >> There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. >> Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) >> for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a >> question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up >> a BBS at the same number and all connect? > >Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the >bottom number. The same way they advertize one number you can call to order your very own Slim Whitman album. (Billions and billions call at once.) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 14 16:22:32 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix References: <199803142125.QAA27707@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <350B0328.E92A1C9A@enterprise.net> Captain Napalm wrote: > > One setting puts > the ESC on F11, and the ~ESC` key returns ~`, the other setting has the > ~ESC` key return ESC and the ~` characters are remapped to the key labeled > >< (between the Z and left shift - and annoying me to no end). > > If all else fails, you can always hit Ctrl-[ to generate an ESC character. Thanks for the help - this is the first 'proper' terminal I have had so I am only just finding my way around. I didn't realise that they were as configurable as they are ;-) Regards Pete From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 14 16:49:45 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <350AE222.F3D3C04F@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Mar 14, 98 12:01:38 pm Message-ID: <199803142249.RAA00221@shell.monmouth.com> > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds > > like it might run on a VAX to me. > > > > UNIX 32V was a port of V7 to the VAX done at Bell Labs. > I believe it was also ported to a few other 32-bit minis, > like the Interdata 32. > > Dave > Actually the Interdata 8/32 and 7/32 ran Edition VII (a Version 7 port from Wollongong, and later the 3200 series had Xelos (a Perkin-Elmer port of SVR0 -- swapping not paging). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sat Mar 14 17:01:52 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803142301.XAA05885@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> anthony clifton: :Er...most ISPs (except the really big guys where all bets are off) really big guys...? well, aside from the hourlies, who would that be? aside from aol and compuserve (which don't sell internet access, they sell a nice new toy) the largest over here is really demon internet, with 90k users. what about over there? are there very big companies there that aren't the "pretend" ones? (we're assuming you meant compushite and arseholes online in your original comment, however.) our experience of ISPs is generally good, except that they all seem to have bandwidth problems. maybe that's because stuck as we are right between america and europe, we're in the middle of nowhere. ;> ;> anyway, this is way off-topic, so to bring it back on: what machine did the first tcp implementation pootle along on? also what's the smallest machine tcp has lived on so far? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Mar 14 16:54:19 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: IIGS References: Message-ID: <350B0A9B.C313D4EB@exit109.com> John Rollins wrote: > > >I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. > >Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? > >Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and > >an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There > >was no disk drive attached to the IIe. > You'll also want to check which ROM version it has, ROM 01 was the first, > usually found in the Woz cases, then ROM 2 and then on to the most recent > version, ROM 03. ROM 01 supposedly has some problems and should be > upgraded, I'm not sure about ROM 2. It will tell you which version when you > turn the computer on. Actually, there is no ROM 2 gs. There is the ROM 0 (most Woz's were this originally) which is pretty useless, except in //e mode. Apple offered, at one time, a free upgrade to ROM 1. ROM 1 is the first "usable" ROM. Apple then skipped "ROM 2" and went to ROM 3, the third released version. This is apparently the preferred ROM to have. <<> (who swants to find a //gs period... :-) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sat Mar 14 12:48:42 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980314121643.00f60740@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <199803142341.SAA28115@mail.cgocable.net> > >look fairly normal....it > >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, > >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and > >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. > > That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML > part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the > two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important > fraction of the traffic. This is real PITA! And also considered newbie too! Jason D. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 14 17:47:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: HP OmniShare In-Reply-To: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> Message-ID: While not a classic by any means, I scored a pair of HP OmniShare prototypes today. Has anybody ever heard of these things before? They are obscure freaks of compunature: pen-based, LCD display, and a little box (small, but not designed to be portable) with PCMCIA, ethernet, and a couple of phone jacks. I can post pix if there's interest. Here's a press clipping from Nov 1994: HP Intros OmniShare -- Hewlett-Packard has announced OmniShare conferencer, the first of a family of document conferencing products which feature simultaneous voice and data transmission. The pen and tablet-based product is capable of receiving, storing and transmitting faxed documents which can be annotated while voice transmissions discuss possible changes and additions. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 14 17:55:23 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <350B18EB.385DDA7@bbtel.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. > Also on cheapie motherboard the contact fingers were too soft and had > to bend the board other way when installing the simms. > > > I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't > > understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a > > motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a > > time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. > > Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. > That's what I would do if the latch is broken. > > > > There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering > > iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. > Duh! Truly 100% folkore story! :) There's a desoldering iron that Tandy/Radio Shack sells with a bulb and hollow tip that work great for desoldering items like the SIMM and SIPP connections. The tricky part is keeping the heat down when putting in the new one to prvent the hot metal connections from melting into the wrong place. The person that wrote about breaking the plastic off and desoldering the pins one at a time shows they have done this in the past since that's how I've done these and other multi connection items as well, such as Centronics 36 and 50 pc mount connectors. The only real trick is desoldering to salvage a component like that. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wpe at interserv.com Sat Mar 14 17:55:51 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software References: Message-ID: <350B1905.E103D277@interserv.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > > > There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. > > Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) > > for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a > > question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up > > a BBS at the same number and all connect? > > Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the > bottom number. > - don > When I worked at DEC, our datacenter had dialups, where, you dialed one number,and it went into a "hunt chain", where, if the primary number was busied out, the telco automatically routed it to the next line (number) in the chain, until it found an open one. If all were tied up, than your dialing attempt returned a "busy". Each seperate line was connected to it's own modem, then, IIRR, they fed into a DECserver (model escapes me), then on to the ethernet.... Of course, this was after they took out the Gandalf switches... Will > > >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a > > BBS > > >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with > > server/client > > >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, > > >etc.) > > > Thanks, > > > > > >Tim D. Hotze > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 14 16:20:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 13, 98 08:53:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1022 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/7f3837f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 14 16:17:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: from "John Rollins" at Mar 13, 98 08:46:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/f57b397a/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 14 20:04:35 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send from it. there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one does it. i'm staying far away from IE4 myself! david In a message dated 98-03-14 15:20:25 EST, you write: << That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important fraction of the traffic. Kip Crosby >> From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:39:32 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Soldering tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > OK, tips... <...> Tony's soldering tips are great and should be added to the FAQ. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:53:01 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <19980314181720.7305.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: [In response to Uncle Roger's spontaneous anti-AIWA quip...] > Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, > phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does > it damage CDs or something? > > > >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. > >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) This is an example of the kind of message that should go to private e-mail. Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:59:38 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: IIGS In-Reply-To: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Francois wrote: > I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. > Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? Yes. > Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and > an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There > was no disk drive attached to the IIe. Either someone's idea of a joke or thrift shop ignorance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 22:21:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: <350afdd0.4801708@mail.swbell.net> References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314222157.502f7c3e@intellistar.net> At 10:02 PM 3/14/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:19 -0800, you said: > > > >>Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for >>the motorized vacuum pump models. > >I have two of the "hole-in-the-tip" irons, with tubing but no pump. >(Made by Pace, Inc. as I remember) anyone have a pump or ever >seen one available? Yeah, I see them all the time at the hamfests. A complete one runs around $100. I bought one without the iron but with the hand grinder for $20. I bought a non working one with the iron for $10 a while back so now I have a complete one with ALL the attachments and extra parts for $30. >_______________ > >Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net >Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 14 21:25:28 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: Kip Crosby "Re: What's with the raw