From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 01:04:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:21 2005 Subject: Unix V7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13336129001.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It's the PUPS image, and it's single-user because it only supports the console port. I need a kernel built for 2 DZ-11s. (Actually DZQ11s...) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 01:11:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: I ran into a wall again... Message-ID: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Closer... I installed the DH11 along with that ACT thing in the 44. Now HARDWR LIST says I have 2 DHes, and a DM. But hanging a terminal off the ACT thing yields absolutely-fscking-NOTHING. I don't have the origional DH11 distribution panel. But I have the wires that are supposed to attach to it... Can I modify a DZ11 distrib panel to use in it's place? Do I need to modify CSRs or something? Oh, and I already tried all possible combinations of cabling 'tween the ACT board and it's panel. On a sidenote: Anyone know how to break into an IBM System/34? ------- From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Mar 1 01:25:26 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: I ran into a wall again... In-Reply-To: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >On a sidenote: Anyone know how to break into an IBM System/34? I think there was a thread in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x(or whatever the newsgroup is) on that, or was that you over there? -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 01:46:12 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: wall again... In-Reply-To: <13336130209.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980228234612.011259b0@pop.batnet.com> At 23:11 2/28/98 -0800, Daniel wrote: >off the ACT thing yields absolutely-fscking-NOTHING. I haven't seen that euphemism in _years!_ Or am I just naive? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 00:21:31 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:22 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. And the technical manuals - condition excellent. Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 He also has a AT&T 3B1 in great shape, but doesn't know what its worth. Any comments on these two appreciated. Cheers A From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 00:50:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. > And the technical manuals - condition excellent. > Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 A quick "power search" of Deja News will tell you that this machine has sold recently in a range from $0 to $100 (my cursory look yielded 2 for free, 2 at $50, and one at $100). It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory that can also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). -- Doug From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 03:05:21 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Sorting arrays(could be considered off-topic) In-Reply-To: <19980228183618.17074.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: VB allows you to compare characters by any criteria that you specify. If you want to break it up and do an integer comparison, you need to use the mid statement to get the first character, turn it into its ascii numeric code, and do the sort that way. As for sorts, do an internet search on that if you need a fast sort. If you have a ton of data, use one of the recursive sorts to do it. Funny thing, I thought VB already had a built-in array sorting function (I know Perl does!). You might be able to search a module with such a function out on the net; I'd try Carl and Gary's Homepage first.... Hope this helps a little, Aaron On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > While I am making this program in Visual Basic 5, this problem is > way over 10 years old, and the program will be old computer-related. > How do I alphabetically sort an array? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 03:25:13 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Lisa for sale (forward) Message-ID: Reply directly to the author (zzyzx97@earthlink.net). Buyer beware. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: news.ncal.verio.com!vncnews!HSNX.wco.com!nntp.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.250.118.17!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: zzyzx97@earthlink.net (zzyzx) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: FS: APPLE LISA Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:11:36 GMT this one is missing the power supply so I don't know if it works. It also has some corrosion on one of the boards, but maybe it can be cleaned....it looks like it can. The plastic has yellowed from being in the sun, but there are no cracks. The keyboard is nice. The mouse is missing the roller ball and the cap that keeps it in place. Sold as-is, please send me your offers. ZZyzx "Me, indecisive? I'm not so sure about that." -- end of forwarded message -- -- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From cprohman at ix17.ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 1 04:17:10 1998 From: cprohman at ix17.ix.netcom.com (Carl Rohman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: NEC APC Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980301041710.031cb01c@popd.ix.netcom.com> A seach of the Web yields numerous hits on "NEC APC", many of which are from cable companies. You should have no difficulty in finding cables for the computer. I can tell you that the APC indeed belongs in your museum! If there ever was a machine which stood out as before its time, that is the NEC APC. The monitor was high resolution color (I hope you got the color version) at about 640x480 if I recall. It had a dedicated graphics chip which could do line drawing, curves, etc. It had about a 102 key keyboard. It had a 1MB floppy (8", of course). It had a sound chip and integrated speaker capable of reasonable music. Does yours have a hard drive? The early hard drives were 10MB externals, by the way, so you no doubt have some kind of external connector for that as well. Many of these advanced features later (or much later) were added to the PC. IBM eventually came out with EGA, which nearly matched the APC. With the AT they nearly matched the APC's keyboard (though they still neglected putting an "ENTER" key on the keypad), and surpassed the APC's floppy capacity. It took many years though before the PC added sound cards with better capability than the APC, or graphic accelerators with dedicated graphics chips. Too bad that your APC didn't come with documentation. The APC shipped with the best documentation I have ever seen, including internal schematics, a decription of all internal logical features, and a even a full listing of the BIOS on a disk. The documentation allowed me to write for example an interrupt driven print routine to replace the timing based BIOS print routine. Using my print driver the APC was capable of fully driving a 300LPM printer, or capable of driving a 100cps printer while simultaneously doing a program edit. Try that on an early PC! I hope you got some software. The original disk included a program "BACH", which demonstrated its musical prowess. Later machines shipped with a simple program I gave to NEC called "PLAY" which allowed the machine to play music coded into a text file which listed the notes to be played and the duration of each note. Usage was "PLAY filename". Banjo music worked particularly well. There was also an impressive program that demonstated its color graphics potential. Carl From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 04:23:51 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Able DH/DM card info Message-ID: <13336165281.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> OK, I've figured this is an Able DH/DM card, and it's not at all set right. Anyone have jumper/DIP switch info on thsi? ------- From okay at gte.net Sun Mar 1 06:35:01 1998 From: okay at gte.net (Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Radio Shack CoCo for sale Message-ID: <34F955F4.7CCA72B1@gte.net> Check out http://home1.gte.net/okay/for_sale.htm This equipment has been in my closet since I got my first PC in '87 I wan't to sell as a package. Gary From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Mar 1 06:56:58 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <002901bd4511$863dce80$b027a2ce@cliffgre> VALDOCS is an early example of a "works" type program for CP/M although its most noteable module was the spreadsheet. My wife liked it much better than Lotus 123. I have both a QX-10 and a QX-16. They are both quality boxes. The QX-16 is especially fun because one can boot it in either CP/M or MSDOS. I would encourage anyone to rescue examples of these fine machines. If I didn't already have one, I would be tripping all over myself to obtain a fully documented QX-10 for $65.00. In fact, if you decide to pass, let me know who to contact; I wouldn't mind having a spare. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:56 AM Subject: Re: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 >On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> I've spotted one, owner has original boxes, packaging. >> And the technical manuals - condition excellent. >> Is this a computer worth salvaging? I'd likely have to pay around US$65 > >A quick "power search" of Deja News will tell you that this machine has >sold recently in a range from $0 to $100 (my cursory look yielded 2 for >free, 2 at $50, and one at $100). > >It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory that can >also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). > >-- Doug > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 07:17:54 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: IT WORKS! IT RUNS! AND MORE THAN ONE TERMINAL! Message-ID: <13336196965.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It finally accepted the DH and started using it! I know have RSTS/E v8.0 running and 16 terminal ports that work! The only bad part is, I have ABSOLUTELY *NO* idea what made it start working... I'd given up for the night and started cleaning up my mess, when I got a dumb idea and hung the console teleprinter off the 3rd port of the DH. Pushed enter, and got crap. Screwed with baudrates and other etc. and got logged in. Went upstairs and stole a VT100 off their router (They won't notice... I'll put it back...) and tested it out. All the ports are at funny baudrates and such, but they all work! Now, I have to think of a way to get this online... ------- From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 1 08:01:44 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! Message-ID: <001a01bd451a$92868e80$b087440c@kroma-i> >Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to >play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a >processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant on >the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of >code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy. > (Getting off topic a bit) I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation system, the "Super Nintendo." -- Kirk From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 08:03:05 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! Message-ID: <004a01bd451a$c5e30e20$19f438cb@nostromo> That's the dog I programmed. SNES. A -----Original Message----- From: kroma To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:02 AM Subject: Re: 16 bit 6502?! No, you don't want it... trust me! > > >>Having spent 2 years programming the 65816, believe me you DON'T want to >>play with a 16 bit 6502!!!! The memories, the memories.... There was a >>processor dog if ever I saw one. Interpretation of opcodes was dependant >on >>the mode the processor was set to, and so if you branched to a section of >>code when you were in the wrong mode, results were... screwy. >> > > >(Getting off topic a bit) >I believe Nintendo did pretty good with it in their second generation >system, the "Super Nintendo." > > -- Kirk > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 09:03:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <005c01bd44da$4b464e60$4bf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 1, 98 05:21:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/798ecbe4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 09:08:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Unapproved obfuscations (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980228203916.01102a10@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 28, 98 08:39:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/cc268f18/attachment.ksh From pjoules at enterprise.net Sun Mar 1 09:38:37 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: PDP-11 rescue in UK References: <9802271708.AA04286@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <34F980FD.54C2974F@enterprise.net> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Unfortunately, the above description gives remarkably little information. > This could be a machine that weighs less than 20 kilos and is only > 5 years old, or it could be a system that weighs a thousand kilos > and is 25 years old... > I have just seen this thread today (Sunday) and sent him a message asking about its size, model, and peripherals. If it is not taken I might finally get a PDP-11 ;-) unless any of the other UK members beat me to it. If I am lucky enough to get it then I will post the details. Regards Pete From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:24:40 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803011724.RAA07490@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :Didn't they? There's at least one PC-jr in the UK in operational :condition, although without the original PSU, so I can't comment :whether there was ever an IBM 240V transformer unit for them. Mind :you, the technical manual only lists a 115V model. some of them must have leaked across the atlantic, even in some official capacity, but they were certainly never sold here. they were axed in the us before they could be introduced here. given how long britain had to wait for the ibm pc (and the resultant popularity of the sirius) it isn't really all that surprising... we also seem to remember personal computer world reviewing a model that they described as "the pcjr done right", which was called something like the jx and was only available in japan, and used 3.5" disks years before anything else did. are we remembering correctly...? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:25:00 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <199803011725.RAA07536@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [doug on qx10] :It sounds like a nice little CP/M box with bank-switched memory :that can also run VALDOCS (whatever that is). yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package written in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote it were less than competent. for some reason it has an awful reputation, as slow, buggy, etc. never used or seen it - even in magazine reviews (not for the want of trying either) - hence the vagueness. please, someone furnish further details...? did epson ever release the source? (hmm. other things written in forth were more successful - vp-planner springs to mind, since it was so successful lotus killed it...) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:25:06 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: cprohman@ix17.ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <199803011725.RAA07554@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> NEC APC that reminds me. we always fancied an nec apc... but what we wanted even more than that was a samurai s16. anyone else remember these? also 8" disks, 8088 running at around 4MHz, 128k basic ram, design that looked very apc-ish and quite lisa-ish also (there were a number of machines with that styling. immediately we can think of the lisa, nec apc, ncr decision mate/v, samurai s16. any more...?) the last we heard of the s16, some firm was flogging it off for 400 quid a throw or thereabouts, in response to the amstrad el cheapo pc. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sun Mar 1 11:24:47 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it. :Still sure you don't want to LART me? There's a few about - I was "lart"? :given one a few months back. Strange machine - the disk controller :has a 8048-series microcontroller and a lot of TTL on it. It's an :8088 machine, but virtually all the I/O chips come from the 65xx :family, etc. not surprising, considering that chuck peddle designed the 6502 in the first place. he was especially keen on the 6522 and tended to scatter them around his designs like confetti... ;> the disk drives used gcr and ran at variable speeds, not unlike the mac's (although was the gcr encoding method a more traditional 4 bits onto 5, as opposed to apple's software-based 6-to-8?) and also boasted a capacity of 1.2Mb and a data rate of 500kHz. and an 800x400 screen that took memory from the main map, rather than its own little partition off somewhere else. it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have been if it *had* to use that particular architecture... :Yes, 'everybody's got an 11' - but it's the sort of machine you :should have anyway :-). IMHO it's a very clean architecture. hmm. maybe. *grudge grudge* yes, it is a very nice architecture, particularly in the way both the source and destination operands can be specified as being in memory for all instructions (rather than just loads) - but our objections to actually having one are not based in rationality in this case... :And surely it's better to have a real PDP8 than to have a simulator it depends what you want it for. we want it for the programming challenge (what can usefully be done within 4k?) and it makes sense for programming challenge phase 1 to be hacking out a simulator. getting the real pdp8 is something we'd see as the last step, not the first. :Well, a Daybreak (the smallest, commonest D-machine, I think) :turned up at a radio rally a couple of weeks ago. It was the first :one I'd seen outside a museum.... hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :> [tiger] :The design was sold to HH electronics, :who went broke (no idea whether the cost of making the Tiger had :anything to do with this), and the machine never went into :production. probably - ram was expensive, modems were expensive, 7220s were expensive... it would have been a hacker's dream, but for most hobbyists, possibly overkill. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 11:30:24 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Radio Shack CoCo for sale Message-ID: <19980301173024.8895.qmail@hotmail.com> How much? > >Check out http://home1.gte.net/okay/for_sale.htm >This equipment has been in my closet since I got my first PC in '87 >I wan't to sell as a package. >Gary > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Mar 1 12:48:12 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 pinouts Message-ID: <34F9AD6C.354E@digiweb.com> I acquired a Dragon 64 base unit today. Can anyone post the pinouts for the power and video connectors? -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 12:16:01 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Under CP/M you have a simple kind of multiple font support (although you > really need an expansion card that contains the Font ROMs etc to use > this). There was also an integrated software suite called 'Valdocs' > (VALuable DOCuments, I think) whic hwas rather slow but quite a hack for > the time. Interesting. Today at the ham fest I found two modules (that I passed on) that were encased in a black plastic enclosure. One was a DB-25 serial port adaptor that had a 40 pin header on the bottom edge. The other was a font adaptor card that had a 20 pin header. These sound suspiciously like what you describe. > Make sure you get the keyboard and monitor with it - those are non-standard. I've seen a couple of these keyboards at thrift stores and always wondered what VALDOCS was. I figured it was a word processing system. Now I know for sure. Haven't seen a complete system yet though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 12:42:50 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: IT WORKS! IT RUNS! AND MORE THAN ONE TERMINAL! In-Reply-To: <13336196965.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 1, 98 05:17:54 am Message-ID: <199803011842.KAA22949@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/07f804c4/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Mar 1 12:39:58 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: FREEBIES! A Pair of MicroVAX II'S need a home! Message-ID: <34fcab3b.992137588@mail.wizards.net> Seen on Usenet. If you can adopt these fine machines, contact the original author directly. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- From: "Erie Patsellis" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: free to good home- 2 MVII (western mass) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:37:25 -0500 Lines: 6 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.71.19.191 Message-ID: <34f9645f.0@204.71.19.13> Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.71.19.13!204.71.19.13!204.71.19.191 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:60992 due to change in living situation, I have 2 MVII's available, just email me to pick them up. erie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 12:50:00 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:24 2005 Subject: Apple Basic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't remember - is there an INT function in Apple basic? If so, it would be easy to do (I only used 4 variables for clarity): A = the number B = the number you're dividing by C = the result of division D = the modulus C = INT(A/B) D = A - C * B Viola! D is the result of A mod B! On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > > Eh, heh. > > So how do I get a modulus in Apple basic? The answer is not 'MOD' or '%'. > > ok > r. > From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 12:58:04 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/369a2334/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Mar 1 13:08:31 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wish List! Message-ID: <199803011908.LAA23484@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/f98fa9ad/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 08:32:31 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Pretty good week In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199803011932.OAA29322@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Feb 98 at 20:49, John Rollins wrote: > >Here, take my 10 year old copy of Minix. BTW, is anybody up to speed on > >the current state of Minix? I have an itch to run *ix on a 128K 8086 box, > >and it doesn't look like ELKS is ready for prime time. > Well, I'm definitley not a Minix junkie, I haven't even had time to get > around to putting it on one of my 8088's, but I think the current version > is 2.0, which I think will run on an 8086/88 if you have enough disk space > and a way to get all that stuff onto the drive. You would probably want a > 286 to do anything with 2.0. For some strange reason, I downloaded Minix > 1.1 to install(probably because it will fit on a bunch of 360k disks, but > 1.1 doesn't do much, everyone told me to use 1.5). Try checking out the > comp.os.minix newsgroup. > BTW, is yowza@yowza.com a real address? Sounds funny to me... > Toronto Atari Federation used Minix as one of the elements in a package that enabled ST users to access the i-net. Requires about 4 megs tho. It's since been superceded by easier programs. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 08:32:30 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Pretty good week In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> References: <1d2866d7.34f63008@aol.com> Message-ID: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Feb 98 at 6:52, Joe wrote: > At 10:16 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote: > >In a message dated 98-02-26 22:08:24 EST, somebody wrote: > > > ><< Geez, where do you guys keep all these computers??? >> > > > >well, with living single, and a 3bedroom house for me and my dawg, it's easy! > >=D > > > >david > > Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the > computers. A lot quieter too. > > > Joe , that has to be the funniest quote on classiccmp this year. I was still chuckling 2 hours later. Thinking of using it in a sig file ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 13:40:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed Message-ID: <34F9B99F.141E1A58@bbtel.com> I just obtained a machine that has the same all-in-one look as a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 but the drives are located in an external box and has the name Vector 3 on the front and the label on back states that it's made by Vector Graphics, Inc. The external box has a 5.25" floppy and a 5.25" hard drive in it and it has a monitor and keyboard in the main unit. I haven't even powered it up yet so I don't even know if it works. Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. Any information of this machine is greatly appreciated. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY USA From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 1 13:35:39 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: <9803011935.AA18442@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/55440ba3/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 13:36:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <19980301193644.29310.qmail@hotmail.com> I debated if I shouldn't just send this directly to you, seth, but I decided that knowing where old computer providers and users are is good for the whole list. I am a high school student in Boston, MA (If anyone is familiar with the Boston Latin School, that's it). I had a C-64, but fried it two years ago. I now have a Mac Portable, Apple //c, 386 Clone, P*****m clone, which is what I usually use. I am interested in classic computers because they are cheap and easy to understand. They usually have less bugs, and, most importantly, they were made in an era when money wasn't all that counted as far as computers went (everything else was long past that point). I am also working on System/34 in my school's supply room. I will start monday. C'est tout. >Club, formed to prevent people from trashing all the PDP11's that were >How about other folks? What kind of backgrounds and current experiences >do you all have? I'd love to hear about it. > >-Seth Morabito > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 13:41:10 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> <1d2866d7.34f63008@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> >> Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the >> computers. A lot quieter too. Not if you have a running, large VAX. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From frank at 5points.com Sun Mar 1 14:20:21 1998 From: frank at 5points.com (Frank Peseckis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <34fbbae3.354654541@mail.capital.net> On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:58:04 -0800 (PST), Seth J. Morabito wrote: >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. > I probably fall into the older half of the list. I'm a physicist, 44, and have not principally used computers in my work, focusing more on 'paper and pencil' theory (initially high energy physics, then statistical dynamics of turbulent processes). My first practical exposure to computing was learning Basic in high school in the late sixties, then my batchelor's thesis at MIT in 1974-5 where I did some computational modeling of nucleon-nucleon interactions, and some fortran programming in graduate school at Columbia in 1976 for neutrino experiments at Fermilab. On an entirely separate track, I have recently been working collaboratively with some artists and scientists exploring connections between the visual arts and mathematical sciences. The work relies heavily on computational graphics manipulations (though nothing 'classic' about the hardware used). My interest in collecting is recent, only the last couple years, as I have seen lots of older things thrown out. I have a few interesting older things (altair, kim, nec pda-80 -- thanks Allison!, northstar horizon, misc s-100 boxen, etc), with possibly the most unusual being the guts from two CADR lisp machines from the AI lab at MIT. Lots of other stuff as well, all architectures. Shameless request: for some reason I can't seem to find any kind of commodore pet, so if some kind soul has a spare they'd be willing to part with, please let me know. FWIW, I'm married to a seismologist who finds my collecting this old stuff amusing, and have two children who also enjoy all the computing paraphernalia around the house. Makes for an easily encouraged collecting experience :-). Hope this was of interest, Frank Frank Peseckis frank@5points.com http://www.5points.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 14:59:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wish List! Message-ID: <199803012059.AA01526@world.std.com> from: sethm@loomcom.com 54 disks (30-159mb), rx50 floppy and plenty of serial io. Boards are common enough and generally free to cheap. if your real lucky you may find a copy of RT-11 on the disk or with the machine. Docs are always handy. Message-ID: Hi, I'm Doug, and I'm a computerholic. It started innocently enough with an HP65 programmable calculator in high school (1977 or so). I played Lunar Lander and wrote a few programs, but this wasn't enough to get me hooked. For graduation in 1979, I got an Apple ][. I wrote a few programs in clean crisp integer basic, and that was cool. But then I loaded some demo program off a tape (by Bill Atkinson, I think). It was fast! I experimented a little with assembly language. I was hooked. I went to school at UCSD and brought my Apple with me. Convinced that computers were cool toys, but unworthy of serious study, I studied biochemistry, but snuck in a few computer classes out of curiosity. The first was a FORTRAN course in which I wrote programs on punched cards and fed them to a Burroughs 7800. I feel no nostalgia for that machine. The PDP-11's and VAXen at UCSD were OK, but uninspiring compared to having your own personal machine with a bit-mapped display. I regarded those with S-100 machines as mad, and those with TRS-80's and Pets with a mix of distain and pitty. The Apple was the only thing happening until IBM unleashed the PC with sort of a dull thud. While running a small computer lab at UCSD, I had my first experience of computer envy when somebody brought in their GRiD Compass. I finally resolved that relationship this year when I got my own GRiD Compass, and then I realized that I had a few other nostalgic itches that needed to be scratched. Now that I'm an aging software weenie in Silicon Valley, I'm starting to forget, for example, what a silly thing was the E&S PS-300 with it's dataflow language, and I kinda sorta want one. BTW, here's my theory of why now is an interesting time to be a collector: the computer is now so mainstream that innovation is occuring only in very narrow areas. As far as architecure goes, general purpose scalar machines are the only ones to survive. RIP: writeable control stores, dataflow architectures, LISP engines, connection machines, object-oriented architecures, etc. If you don't get your hands on one of these recently extinct dinosaurs soon, forget it. As far as form factor goes, I can't think of any reason that everybody won't be using laptops in the next few years, so now's a good time to collect ancient form factors as well as a good time to collect early instances of the first of the new generation. (OK, I guess that was cathartic. Thanks for the invitation.) -- Doug From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 1 15:51:37 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fdd6ed.3165547@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:16:16 +0000 (GMT), you said: >I pulled a much more trivial example at a place I was working at over 10 >years ago. I had to write a program, and for various reasons I wanted to >use Turbo Pascal. But it wasn't on the list of 'approved' languages, so I >couldn't order the 'Turbo Pascal Compiler'. What I could order was >'Borland part number XXXXXXX data logger program compilation system' (I >was writing an data logging system).... I did the same sort of thing twice, but was up front about it, and paid the price; I needed the Borland TP Database and Editor tools, so requested their 'Jumbo Toolbox' (is that correct?) which came also with their Game toolbox. Lots of explaining about how we saved money by accepting the package deal vs. separate packages. In the same request, I asked for Brief (programmers editor, excellent) by Underware, Inc. (Everyone in the approval chain called me to ask; "Are you kidding?" _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 15:52:17 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:24:47 pm Message-ID: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great lisard@zetnet.co.uk once stated: > > [tony duell] > :> oh, add a sirius one to the list; we forgot it. > > :Still sure you don't want to LART me? There's a few about - I was > > "lart"? Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and think Bill Gates is Good. -spc (Mostly used by sysadmins and see on alt.sysadmin.recovery) From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 16:10:34 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: <199803012210.RAA25095@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Seth J. Morabito once stated: > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. I'm a 29 programming living on Lower Sheol (aka South Florida) currerntly doing consulting work for one company (helping them with their Unix ports) and partner in another company where I'm the project lead on GeoFind (http://www.geofind.com/ - a meta search engine for the Internet). I'm not fond of Unix, but I'm less fond of Windows (so that's why I'm typing this up on my new Linux box). My collection just happened as opposed to me actively seeking it out. My first computer was a Color Computer 2 with 16K and Color BASIC. I upgraded it to 64K myself (I think I was 15 or 16 at the time, and it did require a small hardware modification to the motherboard) and was forced by RatShack to have them upgrade it to Extended Color BASIC. I eventually ended up with one disk drive and a Tandy Daisy wheel printer for the thing, and I still them (oh, and the Tech manual as well). My second computer was an IBM PCjr when IBM was selling off the last of them in 1987. I got mine from a friend's father who worked at IBM and it came with 384K RAM, parallel port, joysticks, new keyboard and cable and as an added bonus, the Technical Reference Manual. It was then that I made the decision to buy (if possible) the tech manuals for any computer I get (if possible). My third computer was my first used computer - another Color Computer. I don't recall why I bought it, just that I did. I think that was the start of my collection really. My next computer was an Amiga 500 (new) and that's the last new computer I've bought. The rest have been used. I was always known as being a bit odd, and after awhile, I just started accumulating computers. A Data General/1 here (from a previous employer who no longer needed one), a dead Xerox there (right now making sure the carpet stays down in the computer room), a uVAX 2000, two Tandy 6000s (and possibly a third), two HP/Apollos Series 400 (yes, they are 400, I just checked 8-) a few terminals, a C-64 and I hate to say this, but a stack of PCs and PC monitors (bleh - forced to take them to get the DEC vt320 terminal). On the wish list front, I'm not actively seeking out computers (as I have in fact, run out of space), but I would like to: Get the Xerox working, which I doubt I will any time soon. Get a new drive for the uVAX 2000, as I suspect there's a screw loose inside the drive that's rattling around. It'd be nice if I could get a copy of VMS (with TCP/IP) with a developent system (or Unix). Just how special are the drives and/or format for the DEC systems? I have extra harddrives, but I'm wondering if I can use them. Get the OS for the HPs. This I'm working on. Get the second Tandy 6000 back together and see if it still works. It worked when I picked it up, but I'm not so sure after I dropped it off (literally. Those suckers are heavy! If anyone can send me just a T6k case, just the case, I'd be happy) Make my own desks to fit the equipment here. I have the design, it's viable (I talked it over with an architect friend of mine) but I just need to get the time, money and materials. So, that's about it for me. -spc (Help! I'm drowning in silicon) From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 16:23:19 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 1, 98 03:25:01 pm Message-ID: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Doug Yowza once stated: > > Hi, I'm Doug, and I'm a computerholic. Hi Doug. I'm Sean, and I'm a computerholic as well 8-) > BTW, here's my theory of why now is an interesting time to be a collector: > the computer is now so mainstream that innovation is occuring only in very > narrow areas. As far as architecure goes, general purpose scalar machines > are the only ones to survive. RIP: writeable control stores, dataflow > architectures, LISP engines, connection machines, object-oriented > architecures, etc. If you don't get your hands on one of these recently > extinct dinosaurs soon, forget it. As far as form factor goes, I can't > think of any reason that everybody won't be using laptops in the next few > years, so now's a good time to collect ancient form factors as well as a > good time to collect early instances of the first of the new generation. Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new HP machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable control store. My friend has one of these boxes at home and he's been planning on playing around with this. OO-architectues: While interesting, they have the problem of being slower than their non-OO counterparts (in the same era). The Intel 432 sounds interesting, but from what I hear, it made for a slow system. But again, don't count this as being dead as Sun has made CPUs that run Java natively (or rather, the JVM, which enforces the OO paradigm). Give some of these things time. They typically don't hit mainstream until 20, 25 years after being first introduced. -spc (Java is just another variation on UCSD Pascal ... ) From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 1 16:31:57 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:40:18 +0000 (GMT), you said: >> > What is even more anoying is that you can't use a double-sided 8" floppy >> > in a single-sided drive. The index sensor is in the wrong place, you see. >> > And punching extra holes in a few boxes-worth of disks is not my idea of >> > a fun afternoon :-(. >> >> Set the box on the window sill, line up the laser, ... > >Alas not - you don't want to make extra index holes in the disk itself - >only in the jacket. For the same reason you can't make a pile of the >disks and drill/punch a hole through the lot Slightly more complex, but possible; you just line up the index holes and zap the jackets. (Implementation is up to the reader) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 1 16:47:43 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > What does PDP mean, exactly? Is it something like the PC standard? > > > > > > > > PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was the name that DEC used instead of > > > > the word 'Computer' for various reasons, most of them lost in the folklore. > > > > > > According to _Computer: A History of the Information Machine_ by Martin > > > Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray (BasicBooks, ISBN: 0-465-02989-2 [hard] > > > 0-465-02990-6 [paper]), Len Olsen is quoted as choosing the name > > ^^^ > > I don't know if that's an error in the original, or a typo, but I'm > > pretty sure it should be 'Ken'. > > Sorry. Blatant typo. It is in fact "Ken" ('k' is right next to 'l'). > > > > Programmed Data Processor because nobody would believe that "in 1960 > > > computers that could do the job could be built for less than $1 million." > > > > That's certainly one of the reasons that I've heard. Another is that > > there was either a tax on 'computers' or that if you were a > > government-funded place (state funded?) you could only buy 'computers' > > from a very few approved companies. So Digital/DEC didn't make > > 'computers' - they made Programmed Data Processors. Whether either of > > those reasons is true I don't know. > > I've heard this reason for other "computers" not being called that as > well...things like computers being called calculators because one couldn't > get a computer in the budget. True! The DOD had such a policy in the '70s. A lot of 'programmable calculators were bought in that era. - don > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 16:57:49 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: PC to System 34/36/38 setup FS Message-ID: <34F9E7EC.C3A90576@bbtel.com> I have a new, in the box, AST-5251/11 setup that allows a PC to communicate with an IBM 34/36/38 mainframe (?). It includes a thick manual, 5.25" and 8" floppies, twinaxial to adapter card cable w/tee, and the adapter card for an ISA slot. Still with the original overbox that shows all the features of this beauty. The box states that the card is an 8 bit, DMA selectable for PC/XT/AT, selectable interupt channel, on board high speed 8X305 processor, 5251-11/5291 or 5291-1 display terminal emulation, host addressable 5256 printer support on the PC's printer, concurrent host and PC sessions with hot key assist, bidirectional file transfers, and more. This is the enhanced version. I have no use for this and many of you are into connection to mainframes and minis, so make me an offer, whether it be cash or trade for PC compatible items. Email a reply direct to me, please. Russ Blakeman rhblake@bbtel.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 16:51:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <19980301225105.1732.qmail@hotmail.com> > Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, but can be >anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering upon loosers who don't >know a calculator from a computer and think Bill Gates is Good. I would say the optimal is a PC clone case with Windows 95 cds glued on. Anyway, what IS the difference between a computer and a calculator (yeowch!)? I know the one between a Cray and TI-10 (4-function calc.), but what about a 68k based TI-92 graphics, which a friend of mine is now making a multitasking OS for? It has a full keyboard (half the area). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:18:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 1, 98 10:16:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b32210d3/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 17:02:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) In-Reply-To: <199803012100.AA01601@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Misc machines: > INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 Is this a blue box? I had a chance to get one once.... > My wish list includes: > > more SBCs (mostly because they are fun and small) That reminds me. I have two piSBC 386/116's that I have no plans to do anything with (I don't have a card cage for them). They are available as trading fodder for just about anything smaller than a breadbox. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:27:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803011724.RAA07509@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:24:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b943ace9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 12:21:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 In-Reply-To: <199803011725.RAA07536@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 1, 98 05:25:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/d41d9a58/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 17:14:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new HP > machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable control store. My > friend has one of these boxes at home and he's been planning on playing > around with this. I've heard that even Pentiums will let you patch their microcode, but the idea as a general theme seems to be dead. I don't know the reason for this except for speed and cost issues. > OO-architectues: While interesting, they have the problem of being slower > than their non-OO counterparts (in the same era). The Intel 432 sounds > interesting, but from what I hear, it made for a slow system. But again, > don't count this as being dead as Sun has made CPUs that run Java natively > (or rather, the JVM, which enforces the OO paradigm). True, some people are condemned to repeat history, but I'm willing to bet that hardware byte-code engines will be pulled back into the tar pit before they leave the cave at Sun (and other places). I listed to a talk given by a Sun engineer on why they should build these things, and the reasons he gave (such as byte-code is more compact than other code) are really hard to buy. Defintely a solution looking for a problem. > Give some of these things time. They typically don't hit mainstream until > 20, 25 years after being first introduced. > > -spc (Java is just another variation on UCSD Pascal ... ) True again. p-Code made more sense then (when there was more than one dominant architecture) than Java does now, but if Sun ever buys into the idea of Java compiled to native code, there still may be more hope for Java than there was for UCSD Pascal. -- Doug From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 1 17:20:18 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Barry Peterson wrote: > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:40:18 +0000 (GMT), you said: > > >> > What is even more anoying is that you can't use a double-sided 8" floppy > >> > in a single-sided drive. The index sensor is in the wrong place, you see. > >> > And punching extra holes in a few boxes-worth of disks is not my idea of > >> > a fun afternoon :-(. > >> > >> Set the box on the window sill, line up the laser, ... > > > >Alas not - you don't want to make extra index holes in the disk itself - > >only in the jacket. For the same reason you can't make a pile of the > >disks and drill/punch a hole through the lot > > Slightly more complex, but possible; you just line up the index holes > and zap the jackets. (Implementation is up to the reader) Still not good as the hole in the jacket needs to be rather larger than the hole in the disk itself. - don > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 17:29:04 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Recover gold from old computers Message-ID: <007e01bd4569$e377be00$19f438cb@nostromo> I wish this guy didn't exist http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm A From spc at armigeron.com Sun Mar 1 17:59:58 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Recover gold from old computers In-Reply-To: <007e01bd4569$e377be00$19f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 2, 98 10:29:04 am Message-ID: <199803020000.TAA25262@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Andrew Davie once stated: > > I wish this guy didn't exist > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm He comes across as being very much the gold digger (pun intended). For instance, he says he'll pay $20/pound for certain chips, and there's a thumb nail image of the chips he's intersted in. Click on the image, you get this large image, most of which blocked out, with a link to a page where you can order the image for, get this, $20! Everything on the site is like that. He'll buy from you, but you have to buy the catalogs of what he wants to buy. Sheesh. -spc (I wouldn't sell pure gold to this man ... ) From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 1 18:10:36 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Lart?] I have one. It's a hard cardboard tube out of the center of a UTP reel box. Aout 2" thick. I wrote "RTFM" on the top. ------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 1 18:26:50 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Where's a list of lists? Message-ID: <34F9FCC9.23FD7363@bbtel.com> Ok, it sounded stupid...I'm basically asking where there's a list of these type message areas, such as the one we're reading right now. I know about the Heath area and the Classic Computer area by word of mouth, but is there a place to get an overall listing of all that a person could subcribe to? Newsgroups are easy as they show with the newsgroup reader in your browser. Appreciate the time in responding to this or any of my messages. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wpe at interserv.com Sun Mar 1 18:33:31 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? Message-ID: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this thing was in, was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the top left is a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears to be a RCA type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears to be two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a label on it, that reads as follows: 239X .STD V0.86 92-2-27 23A7 Inscribed directly on the chip is: -150DC 1506NOT (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD Can anybody clue me in on this thing? AdvTHANKSance, Will From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 1 18:55:39 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: not the Sys/34 again!!! Message-ID: <19980302005539.16185.qmail@hotmail.com> I will finally get to the thing Monday to see if I can modify the PSU for 110 volts. It's probably a bit late to ask, but does anyone have recommendations for what to look for, as well as what tools I should take? Is the PSU takeapartable with a screwdriver? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From archive at navix.net Sun Mar 1 21:23:26 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803012210.RAA25095@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <34FA262D.73F1F449@navix.net> Hi, my name is Cord Coslor. Many of you may 'know' from the list and elsewhere, but many probably do not. I also know many of you probably do not enjoy posts like this (Sam... :-) Sam really is a great guy!!), but I think once in a blue moon it can be kind of funa dn interesting reading about people that we only know by their e-mail addresses. Anyway, I am 22 years old and am a full-time college student majoring in Sports Management and Broadcast Communications at Peru St. College in Nebraska. Deanna and I just had a baby girl (Morgan), and I also have two step children. I am in my fourth year of collegiate baseball (was at Sterling College in Kansas for 2.5 years) here.... so, between my family, classic computing, school, and sports, I think I really have a load for a 22 year old. Anyway, I got into collecting computers a long time ago. My dad had a TRS-80 Model 4 that he ran his crop dusting business from. In looking for games to play on it, I discovered I'd missed the TRS-80 boat by several years. So, I actually started investigating the old sources of software for the machines and was able to personally contact some of the game pioneers such as Scott Adams, and over several years developed a passion to collect everything related to this series of computers. I was 12 years old at the time. Next, the family got a Commodore 64 computer. Since this time, I guess I have been on a quest to collect every piece of hardware and software related to these machines and it has just kind of taken off from there. I enjoy collecting old 8-bit personal computers from the 1980s. However, I enjoy reading and learning from your post concerning some of the mainframes, etc. Currently in my collection, I have about 80 machines total. These consist of, all in duplicate or triplicate at least (in most cases), TRS-80 Model 1,3,4,4p,4d, Tandy Color Computer 1,2,3, MC-10,Dragon 64, Tandy 2000, Tandy 1000, Commodore 64, C-64c, Vic-20, Commodore Plus/4, Apple //e, Apple //c, TI 99/4a, tons of old printers of every type, Atari 130xe, Atari 400, Atari 800, Atari 800xl, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, V-Tech's Laser 310, Toshiba MSX (European), Bally Astrocade, APF TV Fun, ColecoVision, Odyssey 2, and the list goes on and on. Currently, my only modern machine is a Packard Bell Pentium 75. It currently has 24 megs of ram, and an 850 meg harddrive. Sound card, CD, complete multi-media computer. I use this machine mainly to promote my classics. I use of TRS-80 to check my e-mail at my 2nd e-mail address on the school's Unix machine, though. Well, that's about it.... I imagine I've outlived my welcome here! :-) Long live the 'classics,' CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:19:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803012152.QAA25052@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 1, 98 04:52:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/01f79c66/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:47:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 1, 98 03:25:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/6dcc0a80/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:24:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon In-Reply-To: <34fee16c.5852917@mail.swbell.net> from "Barry Peterson" at Mar 1, 98 10:31:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/1168d795/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 16:58:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 1, 98 10:58:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/f0f2767c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 17:29:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012223.RAA25115@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 1, 98 05:23:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/12104e34/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 1 19:15:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 1, 98 04:10:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/2248e0fa/attachment.ksh From archive at navix.net Sun Mar 1 21:27:59 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <34FA273E.6DA44DC4@navix.net> Oh, yeh... I forgot to mention I, too, and looking for a couple of things. 1) V-tech's old Kids computer called the Laser 50. Seriously looking for one... will pay pretty well. 2) looking for a power supply for My Data General One laptop. In addition to all my other hobbies, etc., which can be found in post I sent just a minute ago, I collect autographs and have nearly 7,000 signed items in my collection. Those and my computers have been piling up for about 10 years now. :-) CORD -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 20:09:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) Message-ID: <199803020209.AA10451@world.std.com> <> Misc machines: <> INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 < In a message dated 98-03-01 17:25:56 EST, you write: << It was thus said that the Great Seth J. Morabito once stated: > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. >> My name's david, and i'm based in north carolina. I do level 2 technical support for IBM's consumer line. I only started really collecting computers about 3 years ago and am up to ~75 or so. It all started way back in 1984 in high skool when i discovered the apple //e. I flunked computer science, but it eventually worked out pretty well. I never did get my own computer until 1987 when i bought a second hand apple ][+ with no disk drive for $200. ( i still have it) I've got quite a varied collection which includes apple // series, 68k compact macs, IBM, a microvax, xycom business cpm machine, osi, atari, TI, heathkit,kaypro, tandy, and some others i cannot think of right now including spare parts for the apples and xt era pc machines. most machines will be on a website soon once i can get my mind back into it. my primary interest is early pc era stuff from big blue, naturally, such as ps2 models, pcrt, and pcjr types. i also have an extensive collection of nibble and compute! magazines from the 80s as well. It would be nice to find some old working minicomputer, but for right now, it's just 80s micros, since that's what I grew up with. david From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 1 20:44:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: 386 SBC available (was Re: Demography?) In-Reply-To: <199803020209.AA10451@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > <> INTEL MDS-800 multibus 8080 > < > > Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was > used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team. Hmm, the one I'm thinking of may be a later vintage. But if BIG means a cube about 3' on a side, then it may be the same. > > What are they? Most of the SBCs I'm interested in are of the mid '70s > through mid 80s designs. You've caught me with my hardware pants down. To my software eyes, they look like VME cards, but I know Intel doesn't do much VME stuff. They're 386-16 boards from circa 1987 (just slipped under the 10-year barrier). -- Doug From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 21:10:18 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Good finds this day Message-ID: I made some nice acquisitions to add to the old silicon heap today. I found an ATR-8000 ($7). The ATR-8000 was an adjunct CP/M box for the Atari 400/800/XL computers. To use it, you plugged a special cart into the Atari which was really just a terminal program. The Atari then acted as a terminal to the ATR-8000 (the connection from the ATR-8000 to the Atari was via serial cable). The ATR-8000 had external connectors for floppy drives (since you couldn't actually use the Atari drives on the ATR) and a printer connector. The ATR-8000 could actually be used as a stand-alone CP/M computer if you wanted to. You could just connect a terminal and some disk drives to it and voila, instant CP/M machine. Which is interesting to note because... The next find was ANOTHER ATR-8000 (!) but this time with a TeleVideo 925 terminal and two half-height dual floppy drives attached to it. Basically, an ATR-8000 in a stand-alone configuration! Cool. But this was even a better deal...$5 for the whole lot. My next nice find was an Intellec MDS chassis. The ship date on the back shows 10/77 so I imagine it is a later model than what I've seen in pictures. The front panel has 8 interrupt switches, and a momentary BOOT switch and a RESET switch. There's also a HALT and RUN light. There were two cards inside...one is a Monitor Module and the other is a wire-wrap mess that I can't figure out. I also got a bare wire-wrap card. The chassis was slightly beat up, as some parts of the face ridges were broken off, so I talked the guy down to $10. I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA" so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15. I found a real nice book: _Microcomputer Dictionary: (Second Edition)_ by Charles J. Sippl (Howard Samms, 1981, ISBN: 0-672-21696-5). It has some more excellent pictures of stuff I've never even heard of or seen before. I'll be scanning these pictures in and posting them to the web page. Of course it also has all sorts of definitions for computer terms and such. $1. Next find was a this kinky little Japanse 286 box, a Sharp MZ-6500 Model 50. All the markings were in Japanese (or is that more properly Kanji?). It had a "100V" plug as well as a strange plug that I assume is for outlets in Japan. It has two 3.5" floppies, an ST-125 HD, and a strange motherboard layout. It was in superb shape. Not really a classic, but cool looking. The guy wanted to get rid of it so I got it for $3. Other finds: a DEC VT-100 terminal for $.50 (yes, cents), and a TI-99/4a for laughs. It was a good day. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From aaron at prinsol.com Sun Mar 1 21:25:22 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hey all, > > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. The quickie: I'm 24, a computer science student in Southern California, father of 2 boys, and work as a systems admin/programmer for a local company that copies medical records for insurance companies. Most of my current job is pushing unix servers around and making them push NT boxes around, but I get to do some programming (mostly C and Powerbuilder) as well. I have been going to school for almost 7 years now and have degrees in English and Music composition, with somewhere between 2 1/2 - 3 years left to get my B.S. My first computer was a Vic-20, donated to the cause by my aunt (I was 8 y.o. or so, she won it in a raffle), that I abused until the letters were worn off the keys. During these years I wanted an Apple IIe like I used at school in the worst way, but my parents had a hard enough time buying clothes and food. My best-friend's dad had an Osbourne 1 that I drooled over (who wouldn't? It had *floppy drives*!) until I moved to California when I was 12. At this time I got an 800XL and really learned how to program with it. I was able to work enough little side jobs to end up with two 1050 floppy drives, a 256k memory upgrade, an 850 interface, and a 2400 baud Codex modem. Welcome to The Black Sabbath BBS, with your sysop Squid Vicious.... My collection of computers is really varied in content and purpose. I have a lot of Atari 8-bit stuff because I find it really *relaxing* to program those reliable little machines after a day of Solaris and Windoze headaches. There's also the nostalgia thing. I have an Osbourne and an Apple IIe because I wanted them so much as a kid. And then there are all the machines that I picked up just because they are so neat with all kinds of *lights* and yummy mechanical clicks. So far: Apple IIe systems with stuff Atari 400,800,600XL,800XL,1200XL,810's,850,1050's,1030,410,1010,1027,Rana 1000, Indus GT, a couple of monitors, etc. Mac 128,512,Plus,Se,Classic,Se/30,LCII,ImageWriter,ImageWriter (wide),Stylewriter Commodore Vic20,C64,128 (with all kinds of peripherals) IBM XT's,AT's Kaypro 2's and 4's, TRS-80's, Osbourne 1, etc. Colecovision and Adam Sun 3/50,3/60,3/80,4/330,Sparc 1, Sparc 1+, monitors, etc. VaxStation 3100, MicroVax II (listed but I haven't picked it up yet) Ah well, enough wasted space. From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 1 21:27:30 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:25 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980301192730.01162d40@pop.batnet.com> I'm 51, married, w/kid. I was born in Boston, graduated from college in 1970, wrote and published a novel a couple of years later. I started paid freelance writing in 1968 but, for various reasons, could never really land a job -- and, in any case, didn't want to spend the rest of my life in New England with rampant provincialism and rotten weather. In 1978 my wife and I moved to San Francisco; within a year I was an account exec at a downtown public relations agency. Problem with that job was that whenever I worked from home, which was mostly, it was a nuisance to get copy to the agency and back. After we moved to the East Bay in 1981 this got worse. In 1983 I bought my first computer and modem, convinced the agency to do likewise, and bingo! I became a real telecommuter. The unforeseen side effect was that people started asking me for advice on their computer problems -- not as often as they do now :-) but the problems were more arcane then ;-). After a while I was a Computer Guy, not perhaps by the standards of some people on this list, but easily in the eyes of the general public. In 1986 I became the technical support person for a small vertical-market software developer in San Francisco that was just getting off the ground; I had two jobs for a year, quit the PR shop, and worked in (mostly telephone) tech support till I got fired in 1996. Meanwhile, in 1990, I started to get interested in computer history for the same reason Tony did -- I was afraid it was all going to disappear. I knew hazily that the fiftieth anniversary of "the first computer," by which I meant COLOSSUS because I didn't know about Zuse, was imminent, and I wanted to write a popular survey history of computing in time for that. I haven't written it yet, but it's still on my list! In 1993 I founded the Computer History Association of California, and three months later began publishing the ANALYTICAL ENGINE, which is currently stalled just short of issue 4.2 while we figure out how best to deal with our hardware collection, which is too big, just like everybody else's. (There's some other stuff I want to say about the CHAC, and a biography isn't the place for it, but I'll put up a separate post in a few days.) I devoted more and more time to the CHAC until, in 1996, I lost my job basically for inattention; I stayed fired until the summer of '97, when I had to start writing for bucks again because we were broke. So, after having been all over the Bay Area in the last almost-twenty years, we live at the northern end of Silicon Valley in a cute little condo, which suits us fine because "real" houses are a nuisance to maintain and clean. I'm the computer history lecturer for Silicon Valley Elderhostel, and in September I'm starting to teach comp. hist. at Univ. of California Extension. Fred Davis and I have a publishing contract for _The Windows 98 Bible_, which should be out late this spring, and after that I'd really like to write _The Windows NT 5 Bible_ if we can get our publisher interested. (I've been running NT as my primary OS for the last three years.) "Even at my advanced age," he said looking around at the rest of us, "I think I've got the stamina for a career as a computer journalist." __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 21:29:47 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803012100.AA01601@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are > us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford > when I was playing with them new. Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer enthusiasts :) > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is that it runs CP/M. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 1 21:33:12 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001401bd458b$f54d5aa0$60f438cb@nostromo> >> Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are >> us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford >> when I was playing with them new. > >Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into >this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer >enthusiasts :) What's a woman? Can you program it? Does it have a nice chassis? Is there somewhere to rest your beer while you're working on it? :) A From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 1 22:10:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803020410.AA03226@world.std.com> <> 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) < <> Correction it's the BIG blue box. Mine is circa '76 or earlier and was <> used by the DEC VT100(and others) development team. < Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into > >this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer > >enthusiasts :) > > > What's a woman? > Can you program it? Does it have a nice chassis? Mine does :) Unfortunately, I seem to be the one being programmed though :( > Is there somewhere to rest your beer while you're working on it? Only in certain positions. (Ok, I know this is totally sexist but I'm sure my wife would be amused) (Yes, off-topic...couldn't resist) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 22:22:43 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: One more thing... Message-ID: I forgot to mention one last thing I picked up today. The CE-125 Printer and Microcassette Interface for a Sharp Pocket Computer PC-1250. This basically adds a 20 column printer and micro-cassette to the Sharp Pocket Computer. Basically makes the equivalent of a small Epson HX-20 (almost). The Sharp would slide into this unit and you could then carry the whole contraption around in a carrying case which came with the interface. Very cool. Now all I need to find is a Sharp PC-1250. In the box with all accessories and manuals, $15. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 1 22:37:51 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value you may be extracting from their circuits. I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not compelling. Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer Festival web page: http://www.siconic.com/vcf Sincerely, Sam Ismail Vintage Technology Cooperative http://www.siconic.com/vcf From cad at gamewood.net Sun Mar 1 22:45:36 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? References: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> Message-ID: <34FA3970.4B85@gamewood.net> will emerson wrote: > > Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this > thing was in, > was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the > top left is > a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears > to be a RCA > type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears > to be > two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a > label on it, that > reads as follows: > > 239X .STD > V0.86 > 92-2-27 23A7 > Inscribed directly on the chip is: > > -150DC > 1506NOT > (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD > > Can anybody clue me in on this thing? > > AdvTHANKSance, > > Will Hi Will: Just a guess, but it may be a 'pre' PC printer card. Untill IBM decided to save a few cents, and foisted off their kluge of a 'parallel port' using a DB25 connector, it was almost 'set in stone' that a DB25 connection was RS232 serial. The printer ports all used the centronix connector. (And YES, I'm still peeved at IBM for doing that.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 00:02:07 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? In-Reply-To: <34F9FE57.EEE374AC@interserv.com> from "will emerson" at Mar 1, 98 07:33:31 pm Message-ID: <9803020602.AA22027@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 988 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980301/b0b90498/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 00:44:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: Message-ID: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info > > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it > > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. > > Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin > (marvin@raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the resident > Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little > while. > > Add this one to your collection. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Hey me too on this one --------------------------------------------------------------^^^^ Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and it works as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive is a Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to have a printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. Although a little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and replacement of the antiglare mesh. If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him by the trackball and see what he has to say about it. Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining room, it's a computer docking bay. Thanks a bunch for the info... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 01:18:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <001401bd458b$f54d5aa0$60f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <34FA5D4F.F038D1D3@bbtel.com> I'm a 41 yr old that was born and raised in Chicago, IL with a great wife and 3 late teens sons and a first grade daughter (and a mother in law for a while). I've been getting zapped by electronic stuff since I was around 10-11 yrs old before the onset of transistors and semiconductors. I graduated J.F. Kennedy HS in 1975 and went into the USAF in 1976. I worked tactical air-to-air and air-to-ground missile systems and the associated equipment at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas until 1980 when I went to Keflavik Iceland until 1982. I then went into strategic (nukes) air-to-ground missiles working on the Short Range Attack Missile, Air Launched Cruise Missile and Advanced Cruise Missile and test equipment as well as equipment from the systems in the FB-111A, B-52 and B-1 aircraft at Plattsburgh New York until I became an instructor at Chanute AFB in Rantoul, IL. I taught basic electronics, missile systems maintenance and computer operations until they closed the base in 1993 when I went back to being a missile grunt at McConnell AFB in Wichita. I stayed there until I retired from the USAF in 1995 when I got a life again. I started my own business repairing a number of electrical and electronic equipment but mostly older cast-off computers. My first computer was a Commodore 64 and have had Sanyo MBC-55x machines, Apples of various varieties including Macs, varied clones and IBM original machines, TRS-80's and CoCo's, and the list goes on. I've run numerous BBS systems and networks. I've worked micros, terminals, minis and mainframes. I have a degree in Electronic Systems Technology and Technical Instruction and many home based courses from NRI. I've programmed in BASIC (many varieties), Pascal, C, C++, Cobol, and others I forgot about a long time ago. I love digging into older stuff from 1930's radios to 1998 Pentiums. My collection is nill - I don't have space for anything I can hold onto but I do get hold of older machines to tinker with and then find new homes for, such as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix oscilloscopes that I am holding onto as they are also workhorses for what I do here. You might say that I do the same thing that an adoption agency does -seeks out orphans, clean them up and find a home for them rather than raise them by myself. I moved to Kentucky after the military to an area where people know each other by first name and they leave their keys (and purses) wide open in their cars and no one messes with them. People don' generally ask for written estimates, just honesty. I look out of the window of my workshop in the morning and see wild turkeys rather than turkeys acting wild. My water comes from a tap but the tap is connected to a hole in the ground where water has been running out by itself for a dang long time, a natural spring. I ramble a lot too.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Mon Mar 2 01:23:35 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Hello In-Reply-To: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm FYI, this was a letter I sent to the "gold recovery expert". I CC'd the classiccmp listserver because I thought it might be of interest to others. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 01:31:30 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a few made (10s of thousands.) Russ Blakeman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have > info > > > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it > > > > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection. > > > > Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin > > (marvin@raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the > resident > > Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little > > while. > > > > Add this one to your collection. > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, > Jackass > > Hey me too on this one > --------------------------------------------------------------^^^^ > > Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and > it works > as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive > is a > Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to > have a > printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. > Although a > little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and > replacement of the antiglare mesh. > > If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him > by the > trackball and see what he has to say about it. > > Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining > room, > it's a computer docking bay. > > Thanks a bunch for the info... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From archive at navix.net Mon Mar 2 03:45:52 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Enrico: model I Message-ID: <34FA7FCF.98562060@navix.net> -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn Subject: Re: model I Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:44:25 -0800 Size: 1804 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/e59670f6/attachment.mht From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 01:45:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it > in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither > is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor > with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA" > so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try > during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything > that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15. Momenta is *long* gone. I don't think they survived very long after the introduction of that 386 wedge you bought. The entire pen-based computing industry went up in flames except for a few niche players and some PDA makers that never learned (OK, the Pilot is a notable exception). The niche players and PDA makers survived because sometimes you need to use a computer and there's no place to set one down and use a keyboard. I think Momenta produced the only pen-based machine that pretty much required that you set the thing on a table. -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 01:47:41 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <34FA641D.2C137D6F@rain.org> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer > Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, > and so forth. Great idea, and thanks for starting the ball rolling! I started working with computers in college on the IBM 360 back in 1967 and found it to be a lot of fun. When I worked for Nabisco, I was sent up to DEC for classes on the PDP 16 (love to find one for nostalgia purposes), the PDP 11-05, the PDP 11-45, and some peripherals. After that, I did field engineering for Gyrex Corporation (a manufacture of equipment used in the Printed Circuit industry,) started my own printed circuit shop, and did/do computer consulting. Currently, I work for a friend of mine doing a variety of things involving mostly troubleshooting of electronic equipment. My hobbies include Amateur Radio, computers, and playing the piano (classical.) I started collecting computers more by not getting rid of them than by design. The collection currently runs about 300 computers (I lost count at 200+ a couple of years ago) mostly between the dates of 1975 and 1984. In addition, there are several dozen printers, a bunch of terminals, several thousand pounds of documentation, and a variety of parts, software, and other associated "stuff". The computer portion includes (in no particular order) Altairs, Northstar Horizons, Northstar Advantages, Radio Shack Models I, II, III, 4, 4P, 1000, 3000, 6000, Coco 1, Coco 2, Model 100s, Model 600, Commodore Pets, CBMs, Vic 20's, Plus/4, 64s, 128B, 128Cs, IMSAI, Vector Graphic I, 3, MX, IV, Sun 120(?), Dec PDP 8m, PDP 11-05, PDP 11-23, Rainbows, NEC 8201A, Intel MDS System, Intel ICIS System, unbuilt National SC/MP demo boards, Cromemco, Processor Technology SOL-20, Heathkit H8, H89, Zeniths, MOS Kim1, Corona PC400, Corona Desktops, Lobo Drives MAX-80s, Polymorphics, Atari 400s, 800s, 600XLs, Sinclair/Timex 1000s, IBM PCs, XTs, AT, PC Jrs, 5100, HP 75D, HP 150s, HP 86, HP 87, CompuPros, Apple II Plus, IIe, IIc, III, various MACs, Xerox 820-II, Altos, Osbournes, Kaypros, Compaqs, Epsons, Laser 50, 1000, Toshibas, Televideo's, AT&T 3B1, PC7300, NCRs, Wangs, NCCs, Morrows, Eagles, Sharps, Leading Edges, and a variety of others that don't come to mind off hand. A friend of mine has a Culler Scientific PC that he has said I can have that sounds like a neat machine (Culler Scientific was here in Santa Barbara, and I believe they manufactured some type of super computer.) Most of the computers were working when they were acquired but most are untested (by me!) My interest in collecting computers is for the historical value. I saw a lot of computers, and more importantly, the documentation heading to the dumpsters. I chose to see how much I could save from that fate :). My actual use of them is very minimal and pretty much limited to turning them on out of curiosity. One of the projects on the back burner but still simmering is to start a computer museum here in Santa Barbara. Of the 50 - 100 people I have talked to about it, most support the idea and are even willing to help! The most recent addition (yesterday) was a Coco computer that included the service manual. At $1 each, I will generally pick up any S-100 cards I find and I picked up two. I saw a friend of mine down in the Los Angeles area who wants me to clean out his garage of the S-100 stuff (he was a software/hardware developer) and his wife want to get rid of the DEC Rainbow with software and docs. Storage is a *real* problem though so I sometimes picking stuff up unless I really have to. From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Mar 2 01:59:11 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: Greetings list-friends.... Though I mainly Lurk here, with your kind indulgence I would like to add another fiber to the 'WRU' thread now extant, because it is so fascinating seeing the "unity-in-diversity" theme alive and well. I am 46 and currently chief engineer at one of the big LA movie studios. It's an awful lot of fun with a little stress thrown in from time to time, just to keep me awake. I have two inter-related Main Interests: music and electronics. I began piano at 6, organ at 12, and in HS and college played also various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 lived in all it's glory. I was utterly hooked. I had to have one, right then, in my room, mine all mine. It was the *smell* also, the warm electronics, the smell of the tape, and the sound... After college (BSEE) and the Draft, I worked at various music-related tech jobs thru the 70's and early 80's, then did some years as a systems analyst and data comm products manager for a Big Phone Company. Got my fill of computer-programming; I'm a hardware guy. Along the way I filed some patents, wrote a few papers and some short stories, and recorded hours of often-forgettable music. Then the movie business happened, and the rest is geography. Currently I have six PDP-11 systems in various states of being and about twenty or so micros and related items strewn all over the house... my living room now looks like a circa-Seventies college computing center. I also have a Pent-100 machine under W95, an AST 486/33 for fax and voice mail, and a Mac PPC and MAC SE in my home studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection, vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind. I've held a Ham radio ticket for many years, and just now I'm about two weeks away from getting a pilot's license, *if* the examiner and the weather are co-incident and *if* I pass the damn checkride... oops, off topic. sorry. I share Tim Shoppa's concern for preservation of recorded media, and I am very active in the restoration and preservation of the record of our society before it is gone forever. This is the main drive for my collection.... also I have, like Sam, many thousands of books, and among them several dozen computer-related ones, from the late forties on. It's very true: anyone can get hardware, but the docs, well, there's another thing entirely. I have a webpage, which I need badly to revise, but here is a view of some of the collection: www.lightsound.org. Now I really *must* get it brought up-to-date.. ;} Okay: enough bandwidth for one evening. E-mail is welcome and checked often. Cheers John From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 02:22:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, John Lawson wrote: > studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection, > vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth > modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a > fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with > period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's > music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind. Is there a vintage synth mailing list? When I was at UCSD, a couple of my roommates where grad students at CME/CARL (home of Csound, I think). I hacked music on my Amiga, an Ensoniq Mirage, and a too-cool ARP 2600. I would really like to find an ARP 2600 or similar analog synth. If anybody here has an extra (I know you do; computer geeks, musicians, and physicists are almost completely overlapping sets), please let me know! -- Doug From anders.sponton at tellus.vallentuna.se Mon Mar 2 03:18:58 1998 From: anders.sponton at tellus.vallentuna.se (Anders Sponton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Subscribe Message-ID: <01bd45bc$3ba2dfe0$53ec0dc1@elektra.tellus.vallentuna.se> subscribe anders.sponton@tellus.vallentuna.se http://www.tellus.vallentuna.se/gymninfo/personal/anders/andersus.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/60bad1e3/attachment.html From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 2 04:15:43 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00a401bd45c4$2ad439e0$1cf438cb@nostromo> My demographics: I'm 33 and from Sydney, Australia. I'm a Taswegian by birth, and my first intro to computers was a gift of a 4 function calculator from my mother when I was 10. That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime interest in computers - the quirky and unusual. Mixed with a dollop of nostalgia (it's not what it used to be), and you have me today - a collector of just about anything that calculates and isn't too big (we're renting). So, slide rules, mechanical calculators, handheld electronic calculators and recently some of the early home micros and game machines. That's my collecting field. Our house blows a fuse when I turn on the dishwasher and the washing machine; there's just no way I'm going to have a mainframe running here for anything over a couple of milliseconds. I'm a programmer by nature - having earned my stripes on the console machines of the mid to late 80s (Nintendo and Super Nintendo, Commodore 64, etc). Mainly 6502 stuff. I'm now programming what we call Interactive Multipath Movies - real time rendered 3D movies with which you can interact and see story changes as you interact. Its quite neat, actually - I just bought shares in our company. Anyway, my other passion is lost information. I find the search for missing information - the gathering together of widely dislocated pieces - somewhat enjoyable. Why, just today I tracked down the original owner of my Exidy Sorcerer. I've been known to track down the owner of a slide rule deposited in a junk store some 20 years ago. He was rather surprised to hear from a guy from Australia - and unfortunately thought I was a kook! Well, maybe I am :) I'm married to a lovely American lady, and we have two rugrats. The kids just love circular slide rules and my little girl (3yo) begs me to let her clean my calculators. Which, of course, I do. I invite you all to visit my web sites, devoted to various parts of my collecting interests... Museum of Soviet Calculators (currently a Yahoo! and Netscape Cool LInk) http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ Weird Computing Machines http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/ I have various other sites, but not related to computing. I'm hoping, eventually, to move back to Tasmania - the place I grew up and the place my heart longs for. Of course, my computers and calculators will move with me. I'm sure the wife and kids will come too :) My collection consists of the following, and lots of widgets I forget... Wang calculator (interesting) Altair 8800b Kaypro II Exidy Sorcerers OSI Challenger Atari 800 Commodore C64 KIM-1 BBC Creativision Soviet Calculators (about a dozen) HP calculators (nearly, but not quite, the whole set) Slide rules and the prize.... a Thatcher Calculator. I welcome all emails, but warn that due to the large amount of email my sites generate I'm sometimes less than quick to respond! Cheers A adavie@mad.scientist.com From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon Mar 2 05:43:43 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45d0$740f0f20$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. Hi, I'm Hans Olminkhof, mid 40's, a mechanical engineer living in Sydney Australia. Married, 3 kids. I don't have much to do with computers for a living, building the occasional Lotus Notes database being about it. I was originally exposed to computers as an undergraduate and remember writing my first program on punchcards in Forgo, a students version of Fortran2. It ran on an IBM 1620 or something at the University of Western Australia where we could see in the next room a PDP6 in all it's blue glory. Never got any closer to that though. The next year we were limited to remote teletypes linked to the new computer, a Cyber72 which I never saw. I had no contact with computers again until about 1986 when I finally found something useful to do on them, Finite Element Analysis. (engineer stuff). We bought a 286 for home about 1991 and spent $500 a year later get the 80Mb hard drive in it fixed. Not long afterwards I figured out how easy it was to do all that myself. One day in about 1993, I said to someone in a shop what a museum piece the IBM AT I was looking at was. Somehow the conversation got around to me never having even seen the original IBM PC. Then came a trip to the back room to see racks and racks of them. I walked away with one for $20, got to fiddling with it and a few weeks later owned another dozen or so. They would have been on their way to the tip otherwise. I got very interested in the idea of keeping them alive and in the whole idea of how quickly this technology was progressing and disappearing. Anyway, now I've got a whole heap of old computers, maybe half of them working, lots of old software to go with them, manuals etc. I spend a few hours a weekend looking around for more. The list includes: IBM PC's, XT's, AT's, Portable PC's, Convertibles, Displaywriters Compaq Portable's, Portable Plus's, Portable II's Kaypro II's, and IV's Various Apple II's and early Mac's Atari 400's and an 800 Various Apricots A heap of Sirius's (Victor 9000 in USA) Decmate III's Osborne 1's and Executives DOT's An original PET A CBM3032 and the wreck of an 8032 A Compupro box A Cromenco C10 Various BBC's HP 85's, 71B's and a 110 An MAI 4105 Various Microbees An NEC APC and a number of APC III's NEC 8201, 8401, Tandy Model 100 Olivetti M21 Panasonic 840 Sharp PC 5000, 2 X 7000's, MZ811 Sinclair ZX81 and Spectrum's Epson HX20 Canon A200's probably some I forgot, and some uniquely Australian machines, a "Porchester Executive", a "PortaPak" and a Dick Smith "Mini Scamp" (a 1977 kit) I've also got some PDP11 stuff coming when I organise a truck! From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Mar 1 06:50:10 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803021148.WAA21488@arthur.merlin.net.au> My turn. :) I'm a collector in Adelaide, South Australia - not the only one here, but one of a very small number. I'm 28, and until very recently I was a student, doin a Masters in Philosophy. (In case anyone cares, my thesis concerns the ethical status of hypothetical artificial minds - basically I'm looking at the criteria for ethical value employed with people and in animal ethics, and working out whether that criteria can be met by an artificial intelligence). As far as occupations go, I have a few (being a typical long-term student) - I'm a welder, do some web page design, some internet consultancy, Perl coding, teach ethics and critical thinking to nurses, actually get paid to MOO, work occasionally as a human guinea pig in medical tests and I am a professional Teddy Bear artist. :) I've worked in a few other areas, but they'e the most recent/current ones. Anything to pay for more computers. I started collecting late last year, although I had wanted to for ages. My first computer that I used was my uncle's Microbee - an Australian Z80 kit computer - but I rapidly moved to the TRS-80 Model 1 and Vic-20. Last year I was offered a Lisa 2/5 to save it from being scrapped, so I figured it was about time I went and picked up all the old computers I wanted when I was younger. Mostly I only get Micros, but I do branch out - it seems that I'm getting my first supercomputer soon. :) My current collection consists of (from memory - I'll probably miss a few): Amstrad CPC6128 (x2) and Notepad NC100 Apple ][+, ][e enhanced, ][e platinum, ][c (x6), ][gs, ///+, Lisa 2/5, Mac 512k Atari VCS, 400, 800, 800xl (x2), Portfolio Commodore VIC-20 (x3), 64c (x2), SX-64, 128, PC-10 DEC Microvax II Dick Smith Electronics Wizard, Dick Smith System 80 (x2), VZ-300 Exidy Sorcerer Honeywell Microsystem 6 (I'm still hunting for any information about this one). IBM PC/XT Mattel Intelvision Memotech MTX-500 Microbee 64k Sharp MZ-721 Surwave Amigo Tandy TRS-80 Model 4P, CoCo 1, CoCo 2 Wang 286 And today an OSI Challenger 4P arrived. :) Keen. My bigest wishes at the moment are for a NeXT Cube, and Apple ][c+ and a Spectravideo 318/328. Adam. From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Mon Mar 2 06:16:04 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45d4$f8bf1ea0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> >That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it >tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw >it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime >interest in computers - the quirky and unusual. > My first calculator, a Sinclair Cambridge, did that as well. Perhaps someone on the list could enlighten us as to whehter this was a common weakness of early calculators, and possibly why those who wrote the code for them allowed it to happen ;-) My condensed bio: I am 40 years old and live near Shrewsbury (UK), on the border between England and Wales. I have had an interest in computers since 1985 when I worked for the local council as a Meat Inspector. The Environmental Health Department got their first computer and I wrote some applications for it and then decided that I wanted to be a programmer for the rest of my life. I have been to University 1 day per week for the last 5 years and gained a BSc in Computer Studies last September. I am currently working (bored and underpaid ;-() as a MIS programmer for a college of further education producing reports in Access. Apart from collecting computers I enjoy motorcycling and rock climbing. My collection consists of: 1 MicroVAX II with a TK50, 4 RA81s and an RA82 3 Sun 386i, I working and 2 with dead/dying NVRAMs 1 Tulip PC Compact 2 - NEC V30, 40Mb hard disk 1 Sinclair Spectrum 48k 1 Sinclair Spectrum +2 1 Amstrad CPC464 with colour monitor (and off topic) 1 486DX2 PC running linux 24/7 except when I have to reluctantly reboot into Win95 1 Toshiba T3100SX portable with dead LCD display Wish list: The one I would really like is an ICL Quattro - The first machine I programmed and administered. It was an 8086 based machine with 10Mb hard drive and 1Mb RAM running CCP/M86 and capable of supporting 4 terminals each of which could support 4 virtual terminals giving a theoretical total of 16 users. Not bad for an 8086 :-). The later 'go faster' version had a 286 processor. Regards Pete From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 07:31:38 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: HP 64100A In-Reply-To: <056901bd444c$13b56460$3af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302073138.3b172822@intellistar.net> Andrew, I've never seen the machine but I have a bunch of manuals for it if you decide to get it. Joe At 12:23 AM 3/1/98 +1100, you wrote: >MAINFRAME HEWLETT PACKARD Model:64100A >THE 64100A IS THE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT OF THE 64000 DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM, CONSISTS >OF CONSOLE WITH INTEGRAL 12" CRT, FULL ASCII KEYBOARD, RS-232 INTERFACE AND >SPACE FOR 10 OPTION CARDS. UNIT HAS 64941A OPTION CARD CONTROLLING 2 X 5" >FLOPPY DRIVES > >This is available for CAN$45 > >Is this rare/desirable? I'm thinking of passing it up anyway, but just >curious. >A > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 08:17:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Unapproved obfuscations (off topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980228203916.01102a10@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302081744.3a574a80@intellistar.net> At 08:39 PM 2/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 22:16 2/28/98 +0000, you wrote: >>I pulled a much more trivial example at a place I was working at over 10 >>years ago. I had to write a program, and for various reasons I wanted to >>use Turbo Pascal. But it wasn't on the list of 'approved' languages, so I >>couldn't order the 'Turbo Pascal Compiler'. What I could order was >>'Borland part number XXXXXXX data logger program compilation system' (I >>was writing a data logging system).... > >Reminds me of a story Willy Ley used to tell about getting around military >procurement regs when he was developing antiaircraft rockets for the >Wehrmacht in the thirties. They had this asinine rule that you couldn't >use Army development grant money to buy office supplies, yet Ley's little >boffin shop urgently needed a typewriter. Now, a couple of times before >they had hit on the dodge of ordering unapproved items "as per sample" ( = >"on eval") on the (correct) theory that if the green-eyeshades had never >seen the sample, they'd shrug and let it through anyway. So, the >description they came up with for the typewriter was "Data logging device >with rotating roller and annotating capability, as per sample." Needless >to say, it worked.... > His actual description was more like "machine for milling wooden dowels with conical point". From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 2 07:26:59 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Message-ID: <34FAB3A3.538706B9@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the > tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't > remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around > here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a > few made (10s of thousands.) 10's of thousands in computers is nothing, you know that. When they get in the millions and billions like the PS, XT and AT they become commonplace. What operating system does the Vector 3 run? Do you have any idea if it was made for a specific purpose such as a graphics workstation (in black and white)? I'd like to know a little more about it before I spend the time delving into it more or even trying to locate a new home for it (heavy beast). The external case is probably the same for ones with or without a hard disk but with added MFM type cabling. If you have the controller card and cabling already then I'm sure you could easily add a 506 interface drive. I appreciate any info you can provide and if you have multiple copies of the manuals and may want to part with one, let me know. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 1 02:24:59 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw Message-ID: <199803021324.IAA23216@smtp.interlog.com> On the weekend I picked up a mint Zenith (luggable). Nosing around the thrift I also found 4 10pack containers of DEC Formula One 5 1/4 RX50 floppies. 1 of which contained programs. As well there were 2 Decmate II Word Processor manuals (no disks) and a Decmate II Hardware Documentation manual with 2 disks. Sys. Overview and Sys.Test Diskette. The program disks were a 4part AT&T MSDOS v.3.3 rel 1.01 ; a clock patch and 2 Test Diag. marked PC 6300 and an HP labelled disk with Vectra msdos 3.1. $30 (Can.) A real score. The Zenith is similiar to the Kaypro and Compaq luggables with a cooler design. Along with the int. monitor it has a double pop-up A/B drives and 3 ports on the rear as well as an RCA looking jack. (for an external monitor ?). Best of all it booted with the AT&T disks. The Disks marked PC6300 did nothing and the Vectra gave me a no command.com present tho I was able to get a dir. listing which showed one. Anyone with info on this 'chine ? I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the shop separately, but a nagging idea of the Rainbows ability to boot msdos came to mind. I also finally found a DEC k-b for a long-dormant Rainbow which has a 5meg Seagate. When I get the 15-pin video cable I'll be able to check further. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From dolar at khi.compol.com Mon Mar 2 07:39:43 1998 From: dolar at khi.compol.com (Ikhlas Ahmad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: System 36 Message-ID: <34FAB69F.D27@khi.compol.com> Ref your email send on 19-oct-1997 I have a system 36 model 5363 with 3 twin axil terminals. If you are interested please reply. Ikhlas Ahmad From altair8800 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 07:43:51 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 - Should I buy it? Message-ID: <19980302134351.13603.qmail@hotmail.com> I found an Altair 8800 yesterday in a computer repair shop. It has been upgraded with a 16 slot motherboard and the MITS cards were replaced with a Cromemco CPU and Cromemco 64k ram card. Does the upgrade significantly hurt the value of it? Or are the Cromemeco boards equally valuable? The owner will sell it for $500 and will throw in some other non-MITS S-100 cards (Cromemco TUART, Cromemco Quadart, Godbout 32k ram card, etc. I have a pretty good idea of what the Altair 8800 is worth in it's original configuration but I am in the dark when it has been upgraded. Does anyone know where I might find an original Altair 8800 CPU card and 8 slot motherboard. I have a MITS ram card. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kroma at worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 2 07:43:45 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Fw: help: Apple][<==> PDP-8 Message-ID: <008501bd45e1$39788600$6887440c@kroma-i> I saw this on comp.sys.apple2. Can anyone help? I don't think he is on the list. -- Kirk -----Original Message----- From: James Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:10 PM Subject: help: Apple][<==> PDP-8 >Hi. >I would like to replace my near dead teletype (paper tape works, but the >CR does not work properly) with either my //c or //e. >I figure I could just use a serial port, but the PDP-8 (compatible) uses >a teletype connector, and I don't know how to create a proper cable. >Also, how would I get the PDP-8 programs from the paper tape reader on >the teletype to the Apple ][? >Has any one done something like this before? I have heard that people >have done this with a PC. The PDP-8 news group appears dead, and I have >not been able to find any web resources on this subject. > >You may ask "Why?" >Well, I'm not really sure, but I sure do love watching all those pretty >LED's flickering on the PDP-8 front panel! I also have loads of paper >tape, and I want to know what it all does. > >Thanks for your help, >James >jmcp@pacbell.net > > From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 08:06:03 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. I think the first 'computer' I programmed seriously was a Canon SX320 calculator, which was a desktop machine with a full keyboard and 40? col printer. I also did Fortran and Algol-W programming at highschool. My first computer of my own was an 8080 S-100 system, c.1978. I still have that system (in NZ) though it hasn't run for 10 or so years. I also have a twin-integrator differential analyser that I made from a design in Scientific American. I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one for the TRS80 (a company in Auckland produced a bank-switching/FDC board to fit into the System80.) In 1982, while at uni, I acquired an IBM 360/30 system via the local micro club. It had sat unused for 10+ years, but I got it going. For the full saga see http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/nbree/saga.html. Last I heard it was rescued by Auckland Uni. After uni I did embedded work, mainly Z80, until the '87 crash meant that most of the companies I worked for scaled things down. My partner and I went into office PCs, LANs etc. which went really well, and we moved into accounting systems and other such stuff. Unfortunately for me, despite being lucrative, this was getting rather boring, so I packed it in and came over here for a change of scene. My first job here was embedded work for racing car dataloggers and instruments. My last project for that company was the dashboard for the Lotus Elise (68HC11 running Forth) and I went on to look after the datalogging on the BTCC Ford Mondeo Touring Cars (FYI the Bosch engine management system in the '96 BTCC Mondeo had 17 processors in it, 12 8b + 5 16b and cost GBP16k.) This sounds like a glamour job (hey, you get on TV) but after a while it's just tedious long hours. So now I do test rig programming work for a company that makes gearboxes for the likes of Indycars, F1, GT and Touring Cars. It's quite exciting watching a differential rig simulating Damon Hill lapping at Monaco. Well, it is for me anyway. Apart from the 486 OS/2 system I'm using now, and my PalmPilot, I don't have any computers here, vintage or otherwise. I do have an interest in the history of computers, like Babbage's designs, the differential analysers, Colossus ... The one computer I would love to get is an Educ-8, which I think the Australians may know of. It is a TTL 8-bit machine, designed by Jameson (Jim) Rowe. When its design was published in EA (c.1975) I read all the articles, but I was too young and poor to afford to make one. I did play with one may years later, and I have written an emulator in Smalltalk, but I would still like to get my hands on one. Other hobbies include Volvo cars (I have a '65 P1800 in NZ) and listening to IndiePop music, especially that on glittery 7"s, hence the 'GirlFrendo' homepage. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 2 09:16:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803021516.AA23364@world.std.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: >I've been dorking around with this idea for a while now, and >this seems a good lead-in. The basic problem was that the >classiccmp web page seems to be permanently dead. Very cool idea and implementation, although something inside me likes finding machines through chaos and luck, as opposed to having an well-organized team. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 2 09:09:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Discontinued Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302090944.00be4d10@pc> Tim Shoppa wrote: >And you also have to consider that at least 95% of the Walnut >Creek CD-ROM was simply assembled from materials lying around >the net and on various CP/M BBS's. I'm not sure how they >got permission for the remaining 5% (things such as the Ampro >Little Board BIOS sources, etc.) That's the big pitfall of publishing supposedly public domain CDs... even if you are absolutely careful and secure written permission from everyone who claims to have made something on the disc, you can never be quite sure that someone wasn't telling the truth, especially if there's any sort of compensation involved. If you redistribute something that the creator doesn't want distributed, you could be in for trouble. And of course it takes a lot of effort to nicely assemble and categorize the thousands of files on a CD. That makes a good product, but not all CDs are as good as they could be. lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >erm, isn't the walnut creek cd-rom predominantly stocked with the same >stuff that is on oak? which kind of implies that so long as you aren't >doing it for profit, it's just another kind of distribution. It can be tough to tell who really owns what, in terms of the "collection copyright." By means of analogy, a publisher who makes a book of poems retains the copyright of the way they assemble the poems, and they need to secure the right to redistribute each poem, but it doesn't mean they own the poems. It's possible that the people who organized the Oakland site never considered that they were sitting on a valuable property. In 1994 my company secured permission to press a CD of the popular 3D model ftp site called "Avalon" without any payment whatsoever. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 2 10:42:16 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd45fa$28ab56e0$LocalHost@hotze> I might as well jump on while everyone else does... I'm not too new, not too old to this list, starting in October/November. I'm 12 years old, and therefore, as far as I can tell, the youngest person in this list. (Although, I could, of course be wrong) I'm the sond of an American diplomat, and have lived in Bahrain for nearly 3 1/2 years. This July, I'm moving to Guyana, after going back to Witicha, Kansas and DC. As the age implies, I probably haven't been into computers too long. My main computer actually is my first, it WAS a Compaq Presario CDS 633, with a 486SX 33MHz processor, 4MB of RAM (immeidately upgraded to 12MB), and, after upgrading, now it's a 486DX/2 66, 28MB RAM, 2.1GB HDD, but still with the same video, sound and controller cards as before. It's role is getting slowly replaced with my new Cyrix 200 that I built in December. (The 31st, just before Midnight). Back in 1994, when I got my first computer, I was always interested in programming. I started with QBasic, and still use BASIC to do most work. Just today I've made my first (partially useable) C++ program. Let's see: I'm unemployed (except always bored as a 7th grade student), am not married (as you could guess, living in the Mid East's getting to me), have no children and do not live in New York. But, in my spare time I work with my friend Zack Boyd (we met on the Internet) on the web page, The Review Guide (at http://members.theglobe.com/ReviewGuide/index.html) We hope to be moving soon to a .com address, just after we get reviews up, etc. It's basically for fun, to try new products, and, for me, mostly to get credibility for college, etc. (yes, I'm already possed with it, and would like info that anyone has on this subject, right now, I'll do almost anything....) I started collecting with a PC XT, and still have it, it's still waiting for a controller and HDD. ;-) Lets see... I'm starting an online community, and am going to be asking in the next few days for people interested. I'm really unsatified with the learning going on in school, (you'll understand with the online community post) , and love learning, like classical music up through lots of different stuff that I don't know what category it goes under... use Windows, am getting familiar with Linux... and, that's it. Bye, Tim D. Hotze From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 10:53:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Discontinued In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980302090944.00be4d10@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 2, 98 09:09:44 am Message-ID: <9803021653.AA02623@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f95b6176/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 10:58:23 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 - Should I buy it? In-Reply-To: <19980302134351.13603.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Mar 2, 98 05:43:51 am Message-ID: <9803021658.AA24139@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/d3d900fa/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 11:10:15 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) In-Reply-To: (message from Tony Duell on Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:35:35 +0000 (GMT)) Message-ID: <199803021710.MAA14989@mail.iac.net> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:35:35 +0000 (GMT) > From: Tony Duell > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) > > > The first trap is that this monitor has a live (hot) chassis, or at least > the 115V models do. The video input is opto-isolated so that the TRS-80 > itself can be grounded/floating. This means that you need to be more > careful than usual when working inside this unit - mains on all the > exposed metalwork is a good way to get killed! In fact, I'd say that you > shouldn't attempt to repair this unit unless (a) you have an isolation > transformer and (b) you know why you should use one. > Thanks Tony. I didn't know this, and don't consider myself competent enough to open up the box and do more than clean the pots. I've done some simple work (replacing flybacks, logic boards, etc) on VT100's previously - if I do decide to open this thing up, rather than using another monitor, I'll be extra careful and make certain to let it sit and dicharge it's capacitors before opening. J. Maynard Gelinas From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 2 11:24:08 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803021724.AA13839@world.std.com> < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the <> The first trap is that this monitor has a live (hot) chassis, or at lea <> the 115V models do. The video input is opto-isolated so that the TRS-80 <> itself can be grounded/floating. This means that you need to be more BIG TIME!!!! Take all the care in the world with this one. FYI the monitor is isolated from the trs80 via opto isolators so there is no DC or AC connection between the two. The optos are pressed real hard to run at video (luminance) rates so they can sometime be a cause of porr video. <> careful than usual when working inside this unit - mains on all the <> exposed metalwork is a good way to get killed! In fact, I'd say that yo <> shouldn't attempt to repair this unit unless (a) you have an isolation <> transformer and (b) you know why you should use one. Having worked on these at Tandy I can say first hand that is no lie! I've been wacked a few time over the years, it hurts...if your lucky! from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 28, 98 10:08:03 am Message-ID: <199803021742.MAA04120@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I think I can find one of my extra sdk85, sdk51 and maybe a sdk86. What do you have to trade? I am interested in sbc, hp42, and portable unix based machines. John > > > > Me too. > > A PDP-8E/F/M > > A PDP-8A > > DOCS for an IMSAI IMP48 > > Single board computers; Intel sdk85, moto 6800d1 or d3, AIM65, SYM65 > > > Allison > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 2 11:46:34 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: gold recovery Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980302114634.00c0a6a0@pc> Let the seller beware when it comes to these recovery shops. Unless you bother to find an independent assessment of your metals, you have no idea whether they're basing their price on the actual gold content or not. They're just finding a price at which you'll surrender the goods. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 12:40:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: not the Sys/34 again!!! In-Reply-To: <19980302005539.16185.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13336517919.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> No, it's not. The PSU is about the size of a PDP11 (MicroPDP). There's also line voltage present inside with the box off. It can be rewired for various voltages, but you need IBM's directions. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 12:50:35 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13336519671.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Japnese = Kanji?] Could be. There are 3 Japanese alphabets, Hirigana, Katakana, and Kanji. I can tell the 3 apart, but that's about it... It's probablyhirigana. Katakana are used for foreign words, Kanji are the neat one-word-to -a-picture characters. There's more than 4000 of them. Hirigana are used for Japanese word where you don't know/there is no kanji, I don't know Japanese, but I plan to learn it someday... ------- From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 2 13:13:54 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:26 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed In-Reply-To: <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > Well Sam, I don't think I am a Vector Graphic guru but I do have most of the > tech manuals (from a dumpster diving expedition a few years ago.) I can't > remember but I *think* there are probably three or four Vector 3's around > here, although none with hard disks. I have fired them up in the past, but > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this time > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were quite a > few made (10s of thousands.) Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi drives? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Mon Mar 2 13:25:59 1998 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:38:14 GMT." Message-ID: <199803021925.NAA05213@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> In message , ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: >> >> At 23:15 2/27/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> a linn rekursiv (wouldn't you? ;> ) >> >> the name Linn and the funny spelling, I keep thinking this is something >> like a turntable, but if so, why mention it here? What is it? > >It _is_ the Linn Hi-Fi company, but it's a microprocessor, not a turntable. And the Linn Smart Computing subsidiary in particular. >I don't think it ever went into production (which means the chances of >finding one are pretty remote), but IIRC it's a >microprocessor/microcontroller with an instruction set optimised for >object-orientated programming. I don't know that much about it, but I >know enough to know that I want one ! The November 1988 (almost 10 years) issue of Byte has a good article on it. That's an issue worth having anyway since it has the first view of the NeXT most of us saw. The CPU is indeed object oriented and is built using three gate arrays, the Numerik, the Logik and the Objekt. The article shows a VME board called HADES with a complete Rekursiv system. The board is of course driven by the Klok chip. >> Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > >-tony Brian L. Stuart From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 2 13:37:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021724.AA13928@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the > > Rainbows did run MSdos versions 1.1 and 2.11.. I may even have a copy of > 2.11(rx50). > > Allison > You can also d/l MSDOS 3.10 for the Rainbow by ftp from update.uu.se. It is a TeleDisk image as I recall. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:01:39 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> References: <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> <3.0.1.16.19980227065240.484752e2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302150139.47373286@intellistar.net> At 11:41 AM 3/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >>> Yeah, it's easier to give up the wife and kids and to keep the >>> computers. A lot quieter too. > >Not if you have a running, large VAX. Wanna bet? Ive heard 14" disks packs with every head crashed that are quieter than my kids. Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 2 14:01:05 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo> I have a canon SX320!! >I think the first 'computer' I programmed seriously was a Canon SX320 >calculator, which was a desktop machine with a full keyboard and 40? col >printer. I also did Fortran and Algol-W programming at highschool. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:15:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021324.IAA23216@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302151555.473761ec@intellistar.net> Larry, FWIW I've palyed with the AT&T 6300s quite a bit and they seem to be completely IBM compatable even to the point of booting and running IBM MS-DOS. The Zeniths were also extremely IBM compatable, so it's no surprise that the 6300 disks will work in the Zenith. BTW I found two complete AT&T doc/software packages in a trift store here if you interested. Doesn't look like they were ever opened. ALL the docs and ALL the disks are there. They also have several 6300s including a 6300+ (80286 CPU instead of 8086) in the store if you're interested. Joe At 08:24 AM 3/1/98 +0000, you wrote: >On the weekend I picked up a mint Zenith (luggable). Nosing >around the thrift I also found 4 10pack containers of DEC Formula One >5 1/4 RX50 floppies. 1 of which contained programs. As well there >were 2 Decmate II Word Processor manuals (no disks) and a Decmate II >Hardware Documentation manual with 2 disks. Sys. Overview and >Sys.Test Diskette. > The program disks were a 4part AT&T MSDOS v.3.3 rel 1.01 > ; a clock patch and 2 Test Diag. marked PC 6300 and an HP labelled >disk with Vectra msdos 3.1. $30 (Can.) A real score. > The Zenith is similiar to the Kaypro and Compaq luggables with a >cooler design. Along with the int. monitor it has a double pop-up >A/B drives and 3 ports on the rear as well as an RCA looking jack. >(for an external monitor ?). Best of all it booted with the AT&T >disks. The Disks marked PC6300 did nothing and the Vectra gave me a >no command.com present tho I was able to get a dir. listing which >showed one. Anyone with info on this 'chine ? > I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the >shop separately, but a nagging idea of the Rainbows ability to boot >msdos came to mind. I also finally found a DEC k-b for a long-dormant >Rainbow which has a 5meg Seagate. When I get the 15-pin video cable >I'll be able to check further. > >ciao larry > >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > From william at ans.net Mon Mar 2 14:18:07 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > RIP: [stuff deleted] ...object-oriented architecures Just do not tell IBM, they still make lots of money selling AS/400s! William Donzelli william@ans.net From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:39:55 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803022039.UAA12437@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> "lart"? :Lusr Attidute Readjustment Tool... What you want to use on the idiot :who's just fed a banana through the card reader :-) hehehe :> the only irritating thing about you, tony, is that everything we say we want, you pop up and say you've got ;> we have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in britain will gravitate to chez duell... :I always thoguht the Commodore method of keeping the disk turning :at the same speed and changing the data rate made more sense. :Certainly seeking would be faster as you wouldn't have to wait for :the disk speed to change and stabilise. on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to mention making sure the controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, certainly in later years commodore never really got the hang of the speed disks should run at... also, it's worth bearing in mind that the mac had a very fine grain of control over the speed of the disk drive originally, and could bump it up a notch (out of 400 or so) if it was running a little on the slow side. because the data decode was in software, that was feasible. :> it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have :>been if it *had* to use that particular architecture... :Having looked at a number of non-PC 8088/8086 machines, I am :convinced that _all_ of them are superior to the IBM PC... not hard, given the design principles of the pc. on the other hand, they're still hamstrung by the basic architecture of the thing. were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that? [daybreak] :> hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :> :\pounds 10.00 including 19" mono monitor, floppy drive and tape :streamer, but missing the keyboard and mouse. You're right - I did :buy it. just call us psychic ;> [tiger] :Rumour was that the selling price for the CPU unit (The CPU was in :the keyboard case - it looks a little like a BBC micro with :multi-coloured function keys) would have been around \pounds 3000. :No wonder they never sold any... no wonder. a case of not only completely missing the market, but also the point... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:40:01 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803022040.UAA12459@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> since everyone else is at it... the identity we received at birth is available to anyone who asks, but we adopted the collective name "communa" a few moths back, on realising that we're multiple. it's raised a few eyebrows since, but that's life. we're 23, and our first computer was a second-hand zx81 at the age of 9, followed with reasonable swiftness by a new zx81 and memotech rampack. the rampack died after a few years of non-use, and by then we had moved on and up, and weren't much interested in the zx81 any more (we maintain that attitude; it was a handy springboard, it was nice to have used one, but it was the first and only eminently *disposable* computer...) over the years we also acquired: * a commodore 16, complete with tally roll printer; * a memotech mtx512; * a sinclair ql with serial port - we are currently waiting for a friend at work to throw some more bits our way; * a trigem xt with 40Mb hard disk, hgc monitor and panasonic kxp1170 printer - faithful workhorse for 5 years; * an amstrad nc100 that we don't use anywhere near as much as we should; * an original zx spectrum 48; * a spectrum +2; * a 286 motherboard, then a 386sx motherboard, an old case someone left behind on doing a runner, a digital vga mono monitor and olivetti card, 4 1Mb simms, and a win95 keyboard, for use as a convenience system (and for internet surfing); * an ncr 286 computer that looks like a paving slab and came with ega colour monitor and lovely keyboard; * and there may well be a decstation 3100 going at work if we can arrange / wangle it. (plus a ridiculously heavy 300Mb scsi hard drive box that feels as if someone forgot to remove the lead casing...) a preponderance of home computers and odd pcs (with the exception of this 386, none are particularly standard inside), which we are not very happy about - hence our published wish list. for our living, we do things with webs and databases - sometimes in connection - with a little company based in sleepy gargrave (typical village - 3 shops, 3 pubs, about 200 houses, pathetic public transport) and have done for a year, during which time we have seen the depth of our overdraft *increase*. (hmm...) however, it does mean that now we have the money to pursue a dream, which is to acquire old and interesting hardware and write operating systems for them. and therein lies our interest in classic computers; less for the beasts themselves, more for the programming challenges and joys that they would present. hence we'll focus on specific architectures rather than specific machines. it's also something of a revolt against the trend in the modern computer market, especially with regard to software. before that, we studied computer science at bradford university, but lost interest once we realised that we already knew most of what we were being told, and didn't particularly want to know the rest. we nearly failed; we got a degree out of it, just. we'd prefer a job that tallied better with our interests; on the other hand, there's a novelist here trying to get out, and we suspect that this would represent our future career development. (but because of who we are, we don't want to write a book until we've written the word processor. :> ) and we'd also like to have more time to ourself and our interests. oh, and we're devoted to our three cats, firstborn, blackie and calliope - our babies. they come first in all considerations. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 15:40:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302154035.47377b36@intellistar.net> At 08:51 PM 2/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > > > What does PDP mean, exactly? Is it something like the PC standard? >> > > >> > > PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was the name that DEC used instead of >> > > the word 'Computer' for various reasons, most of them lost in the folklore. >> > >> > According to _Computer: A History of the Information Machine_ by Martin >> > Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray (BasicBooks, ISBN: 0-465-02989-2 [hard] >> > 0-465-02990-6 [paper]), Len Olsen is quoted as choosing the name >> ^^^ >> I don't know if that's an error in the original, or a typo, but I'm >> pretty sure it should be 'Ken'. > >Sorry. Blatant typo. It is in fact "Ken" ('k' is right next to 'l'). > >> > Programmed Data Processor because nobody would believe that "in 1960 >> > computers that could do the job could be built for less than $1 million." >> >> That's certainly one of the reasons that I've heard. Another is that >> there was either a tax on 'computers' or that if you were a >> government-funded place (state funded?) you could only buy 'computers' >> from a very few approved companies. So Digital/DEC didn't make >> 'computers' - they made Programmed Data Processors. Whether either of >> those reasons is true I don't know. > >I've heard this reason for other "computers" not being called that as >well...things like computers being called calculators because one couldn't >get a computer in the budget. It's a known fact that HP called many of their machine calculators instead of computers in order to get around the export restrictions on computers. Joe From engine at chac.org Mon Mar 2 14:43:11 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Priorities In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980302150139.47373286@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980301114110.0114a210@pop.batnet.com> <199803011932.OAA29341@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302124311.00f5ad40@pop.batnet.com> At 15:01 3/2/98, Joe wrote: >At 11:41 AM 3/1/98 -0800, Kip wrote: >>Not if you have a running, large VAX. > > Wanna bet? Ive heard 14" disk packs with every head crashed that are >quieter than my kids. Erh....your point is well taken, but I was talking about the fan noise. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 16:45:51 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302164551.2ef77a8c@intellistar.net> At 11:59 PM 3/1/98 -0800, John wrote: > > >various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took >me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the >glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 John, Can you tell me more about the GE 635s? I got a collection of old programming manuals and they state that all the programs in them were tested on a GE 635 and I was wondering what one is. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 2 17:10:12 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <199802261421.IAA15833@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980302171012.43bfdb64@intellistar.net> Brian, I got the disks in the mail today. Thanks. I'll let you know how I do with the 7300. Joe From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:31:26 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Today was my first major interaction with the system/34, unfortunately on 1/2 hour long. Next monday, I can stay there 2-8 PM if I want to... I made the following discoveries: a)It's on casters b)It has a 65MB hard drive c)It's not all that dusty. By virtue of a, I moved it to reveal the CE panel, which had all of the floppies and a little error code booklet tucked inside. This booklet is fairly useless now that IBM doesn't support the 34, but it does list all of the parts and their names. There is a thing that I saw called the DC distribution panel. I was thinking that I might switch the power supply's outputs with the outputs for a normal PC AT PSU, of course not powering the drives. The booklet does imply that the PSU outputs -4, -5, 5,6,8.5,-12,12,-24, and 24 volts. Knowing this I ought to be able to get a couple of PC psus and run it. Next step: finding a room that has power to it - this one doesn't... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:41 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT&T 3B1 Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30190@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> yes. shame about VALDOCS really. it seems to have killed forth's :> reputation for all time. it was reputedly an integrated package :>written in forth - unfortunately, it seems, the people who wrote :I thought it was written in Stoic, which although a threaded :stack-based language like Forth, was somewhat different in the :details. not that different. we have a source listing for stoic on our hard drive at the moment (you want it? we'll mail it) and the major differences from forth were (a) it used a file system with 6 letter names, (b) it compiled everything, even immediate stuff, into a temporary buffer then executed the buffer, (c) you pushed textual words using 'xxxx rather than forth's method of having "WORD" pick up the next word in the input stream. :Not forgetting HP's RPL language which is Forth done even better. :You can push _anything_ onto the stack - integers, reals, strings, :even programs :-) I think the HP28 is now 10 years old, so we can :mention it here. ah, yes... we finally got hold of the dos development suite for this. it's a lovely language, but it departs somewhat from the simplicity and directness we like in forth. on the other hand, it's great for its chosen application, and if you're a lisp fan too... (yes, we are. symbolics 3600 on offer, anyone...? ;> ) what we'd like to see, though, is a forth effectively incorporating the concepts in smalltalk (ie everything on the stack is an object, possibly with a tag bit to differentiate between integers and anything else). have to start hacking one... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:48 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-01 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: :> Writable control stores: Don't count these out just yet. The new :>HP machines based upon the HP-PA stuff does have a writable :>control store. My friend has one of these boxes at home and he's :>been planning on playing around with this. :I've heard that even Pentiums will let you patch their microcode, yes? details...? *perk up noticeably* :but the idea as a general theme seems to be dead. I don't know the :reason for this except for speed and cost issues. we suspect it has something to do with microcode in general going out of fashion. these days even cisc machines are built with risc cores surrounded by hardware-based translators. some of the pentium clones even let you program them in their native languages. also, it's a bit difficult to write to a control store that's hardwired in silicon inside a plastic case... :< probably a better bet these days is to write a little inner interpreter for a risc, and it probably amounts to much the same thing. :True, some people are condemned to repeat history, but I'm willing :to bet that hardware byte-code engines will be pulled back into the :tar pit before they leave the cave at Sun (and other places). I :listed to a talk given by a Sun engineer on why they should build :these things, and the reasons he gave (such as byte-code is more :compact than other code) are really hard to buy. Defintely a :solution looking for a problem. there's only one reason why sun could want to do this - cheap java-only set-top boxes. it's a great way of locking out the competition (and given their current legal activities, you'd think they'd learn...) but whether it would make for the most efficient java platform is another matter. of course, there's also the proof-of-concept motive. "see? java *is* efficient, we've even built a chip with it..." :True again. p-Code made more sense then (when there was more than :one dominant architecture) than Java does now, but if Sun ever buys :into the idea of Java compiled to native code, there still may be :more hope for Java than there was for UCSD Pascal. well, if they do buy into that idea, let's hope it's at download time rather than with these damned silly just-in-time thingies (which only win if you execute a method more than once, and how do you know that until it's too late...?) elate (was taos) shows the way to go if you want platform independence these days, in our opinion. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:32:55 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803022232.WAA30236@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> [tony duell] :> Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick, :>but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering :>upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and :>think Bill Gates is Good. :Well, my calculator has a homebrew I2C interface on it, which I've :used to control a robot arm,etc. I've written self-modifying RPL on :it, and I've programmed it in its native (Saturn) machine code. I'm :not sure I can tell a calculator from a computer... erm... doesn't that beg the question - does hewlett-packard actually know the difference between a calculator and a computer...? (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack between meetings? ;> ) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 2 16:38:19 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <01bd462b$e674e340$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> My name is Jack Peacock. I'm 42, based in Las Vegas (Nevada, not that other place in New Mexico). I got started in computers way back in 1971, on a Univac 1106, with fixed head and moving head FASTRAND drums. Back then the programming medium of choice was punch cards (yes, I even learned how to program 026 keypunches using drum cards), and if you were lucky a turn at the ASR33 teletype. Does anyone still remember that "other" character set besides Baudot, ASCII and EBCDIC? (Hint, 6 bit Univac character set, started with an F) I got started in the hardware side while working for Lockheed, building environmental monitoring instruments (LIDARs, multi-spectral scanners, low level radiation sample counters)). We needed a cheap data logger with some intelligence that could run unattended for long periods of time, or in aircraft. We had tried HP9830s (ever try flying one in a 2 seater helicopter?), and looked at National IMP-16s and DG Novas, all too big or expensive. Then one day a guy brought in the now famous issue of Popular Electronics, with the Altair kit. We got one, put it together in the lab, and promptly blew up the CPU board. In the early kits there was a tiny defect, seems all the gold fingers on the CPU card were shorted together with a hairline plating error on the card edge, almost too small to see. Know what happens when you put -12 on the +5 line in an 8080? Pieces of it almost hit the ceiling. From that point on, whenever we first turned on an S-100 kit, the warning to everyone else was "Flame On" so they could duck. MITS replaced the board (when 8080 CPUs were still $400 each) and the Altair worked! We actually used it for one project, but it was quickly retired when the IMSAI came out. We bought #17 from IMSAI in December 1975. The IMSAI was very cheap compared to what the other engineering sections who still used minis (DEC and DG) were doing in their projects. We outfitted the IMSAI with a floppy, paper tape, and a VDM CRT display, and we used it to write 8080 code for several years. The board that went into the instruments was the single board 8080 eval kit Intel was selling at the time (SDK-80?). Years later I found out some of the data loggers went more than 10 years in the field without repairs. Intel built good stuff even then. Freshly overconfident from getting an IMSAI to run at work, I bought one myself in 1977 after trying out my skills on a National SC/MP eval kit first. It took a lot of work, and some assistance from the E.E.s at work, but I got the IMSAI running. Virtually all my knowledge of digital electronics came from wire wrapping proto boards for the S-100. In my opinion, it was one of the best platforms for learning real-world electronic design, especially when it's your own money that goes up in smoke when you don't double-check the voltages first. I program for a living these days, incredibly dull accounting applications and tech support. I still have the S-100s, including that original IMSAI (even have the CPU chip left from the SC/MP board). I don't have too much opportunity these days to do electronics, but I keep a hand in designing 8051-based controller boards. Chances are you've seen one of the 8051 boards if you ever come to Las Vegas, they are inside some of the big casino signs on the Strip. The collection is modest: my treasured IMSAI, complete with 22 slot board and front panel, lovingly hand assembled, running CP/M 3 off a 5MB hard drive, Ithaca Z80B, 256KB RAM (still used for production once in a while, it's not a museum piece yet) The rest: an IMSAI VDP, which I work on once in a while several generic 8086 and 286 based S-100 boxes running Concurrent DOS an original IBM AT, circa 1985, upgraded first to a 386 with a Jet adapter, then to a Cyrix 486DR2 (the world's slowest 486, 8Mhz) a MicroVax II (KA630) in a BA-23 pedestal, with an RD54 and 16MB, VMS 5.3 a Vax 3600 (KA650) in a BA-123 box (upgraded MV II), 24 MB, VMS 6.2 several generic 386 PC clones, recycled as controllers on router tables in a machine shop for the moment From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 16:46:27 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 References: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB36C3.A672DB0E@ibmhelp.com> Just curious, isn't the S/34 a 220v box? Max Eskin wrote: > > Today was my first major interaction with the system/34, unfortunately > on 1/2 hour long. Next monday, I can stay there 2-8 PM if I want to... > I made the following discoveries: > a)It's on casters > b)It has a 65MB hard drive > c)It's not all that dusty. > By virtue of a, I moved it to reveal the CE panel, which had all of > the floppies and a little error code booklet tucked inside. This > booklet is fairly useless now that IBM doesn't support the 34, but > it does list all of the parts and their names. There is a thing that > I saw called the DC distribution panel. I was thinking that I might > switch the power supply's outputs with the outputs for a normal PC AT > PSU, of course not powering the drives. The booklet does imply that > the PSU outputs -4, -5, 5,6,8.5,-12,12,-24, and 24 volts. Knowing this > I ought to be able to get a couple of PC psus and run it. Next step: > finding a room that has power to it - this one doesn't... > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 17:02:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980302230243.15428.qmail@hotmail.com> Yes, it is. That's the reason for all this trouble, that I don't know how to get it to run without a 220 volt outlet (it's in a storage room) Now, my question is a bit dumb, I suppose, but why is it that when Intel made the 8086 (which I heard was about as powerful as the 34), IBM made this huge half-ton box only to leave it mostly empty anyway? >Just curious, isn't the S/34 a 220v box? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 15:32:59 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: In article <001b01bd4615$f03059c0$2df438cb@nostromo>, Andrew Davie writes >I have a canon SX320!! You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now. Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line, and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a tape storage or cartridges or something for programs? It seems strange to say it, but I can remember the 'feeling' of programming it, even though I can't remember much about the machine itself. BTW I am planning on going to the Whipple Museum of the History of Science, which includes the Francis Hookham Collection of Hand-Held Calculators, in Cambridge tomorrow ... anything I can look up for you? -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 17:10:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something 32-bit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 17:26:54 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems Message-ID: <199803022326.SAA24856@mail.iac.net> OK, so this is off topic for the list charter, but I have a friend with a Telebit V.34 28.8 modem (part number AP-8810SA-001) which doesn't have a power adapter. Does anyone know (just hoping - not really expecting) what this thing is looking for in terms of power, and if it takes a common transformer? Thanks! J. Maynard Gelinas From red at bears.org Mon Mar 2 17:25:20 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: Ok, I'll bite. I occasionally suffer from thinking I'm more or less interesting than I actually am so if I ramble on at length feel free to ignore me. This is one of those moments I think I'm less interesting... I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. My first taste of computers came when I was four; my dad bought a TRS-80 Model III with 48k, a disk drive, and an Epson MX80 Graftrax printer that he kept for probably a lot longer than he should have. I could make it load SCRIPSIT and LOSTDUTC and demonstrate the more basic BASIC skills and that was about it. I used it so much I wore the silver colouring off the plastic bezel in front of the keyboard. I received my own computer the following Christmas: a 16k CoCo 2 with a cassette player which frustrated me enough that it didn't bug me that my little brother broke it shortly thereafter. I learned to speak LOGO and explored BASIC a little bit further with it, but mostly I played games. I dismantled it when I was in junior high to use the logic board as a 'high tech' decoration for a project some friends and I were working on (Odyssey of the Mind, if anybody's familiar with it). Anyway, these were my primary computers until about 1990 when my father and I went halves on a used XT clone a friend of mine was selling. The TRS-80 got put in a closet since we had a 'real computer' now and was eventually given away. Unfortunately. This computer came with an Avatex 1200 bps modem and was my first introduction to the BBS.. I never looked back. (: A couple years later we went halves again on a used Leading Edge D2 (286) until a few more years passed and I'd decided I'd had enough of sharing and bought my own PC. Up until this point, I'd been known as a 'computer geek' primarily because I had one in my house and I could drive one fairly well. I really didn't know all that much about them, though. Then I started adding on to the PC. I was 15, I think. I started saving money for parts: a SoundBlaster (which I'd always wanted), an FPU, RAM, a 24 bit video card, SCSI.. and eventually a new motherboard and case. I continued saving for parts and 'trading up' using Relaynet mail echoes on a local BBS. I remember downloading Linux .99pl6 at 9600 bps from a local BBS over the course of a week or so---knowing absolutely nothing about it---only to wipe out 80 floppy disks to make the installset, made it wrong, did it again, and then found out my SCSI card was completely unsupported. I was pretty irritated. I remember reading the WD7000 card was supported so I vowed then to get that one one day. I eventually did, when I beta'd OS/2 Warp, because my SCSI card wasn't generic enough to work with Warp, either. It was a UNISYS card, of all things... every 'upgrade' has been an adventure. For this reason I'm thankful for the PC paradigm, as if it'd all been too easy, I never would've learned anything. (: At any rate, I eventually went off to uni with a fairly moby 486. I found an Amiga 500 for sale in a local newsgroup, and since several of my friends had jumped on the Amiga bandwagon in junior high, I picked it up. It was cool enough.. but then my 486 died. I needed a machine to finish out the academic year with, so I dug up a Mac SE/30 from another local newsgroup... I haven't stopped yet. Each machine I've gotten for a reason, and kept it whether it fulfilled the expectations or not (thinking specifically of the Apollo). Currently I have 16 machines in my collection, althouhg not all of them are classics. Mostly I've got machines I used at school or at work or that my friends had or machines related to them somehow... I'm not that active in searching at this point in my life, as I haven't a car, but I have a tolerating (if reluctantly so) roommate so it all works out. Amiga 500, 3000 Apollo DN5500 Apple ][plus Convergent Technologies CP-001/8 Macintosh 128k, Plus, SE/30 NeXTcube, NeXTstation (with Daydream ROM box) SGI Indy R4600 TI-99/4A TRS-80 Model III I also have the requisite several PCs: a Compaq Deskpro 286, my old 486 which is almost ridiculously configured (64 MB RAM and 11 GB of disk), and a half of a dual Pentium 133 which is a very nice box. It helps that it's running NEXTSTEP. This PC and my Indy are the two daily-use boxes. Oh, and I've got a VAX VMS5.3 CD distribution that is begging for a machine to run it on.. I'm slowly documenting my collection and trying to write interesting text for each. I'm not very finished at this point but it's available for viewing as it stands at http://www.lycanthrope.org/~red/behind/tech.html It's been great reading all the replies to this thread... ok r. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 17:28:55 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803022326.SAA24856@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 06:26:54 pm Message-ID: <9803022328.AA17183@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 434 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f3e46cab/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 17:50:56 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <9803022328.AA17183@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:28:55 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803022350.SAA25275@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:28:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Telebit modems > > > OK, so this is off topic for the list charter, but I have a > > friend with a Telebit V.34 28.8 modem (part number AP-8810SA-001) > > which doesn't have a power adapter. Does anyone know (just hoping - > > not really expecting) what this thing is looking for in terms of > > power, and if it takes a common transformer? > > What sort of connecto does it have for the adapter? Is it a coaxial > jack, a DIN, or a weird 3-pin doodad? > > Tim. > Tim, No DIN or weird 3 pin doodad, in fact it looks like I could go out to RS and buy any 'ol wall transformer for it. The connector is the same used in US Robotics modems, most Walkmans, portable CD Players, etc. Basically a hollow cylinder on the jack with conductors on the inside and outside of the cylinder. This plugs into the back of the modem, which has a recepticle for the plug containing a small pin in the center. I'm sure you know what I mean, but I don't know the term for this kind of plug. Anyway, it looks deceptivly simple, but I don't want to go out and buy the wrong transformer only to discover that I've blown the modem. Does it take 12V, 9V, 3V, AC or DC (probably DC)? Oh well. I also wrote Telebit, which was recently bought out, but I'm not expecting an answer from them any time soon. Thanks for the quick responce! --jmg From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 2 17:51:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 In-Reply-To: <19980302223126.26284.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13336574421.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax connectors. There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V AC. ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 2 18:07:21 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803022350.SAA25275@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 06:50:56 pm Message-ID: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 812 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/4bcdd7ea/attachment.ksh From go at ao.com Mon Mar 2 18:17:40 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <00a401bd45c4$2ad439e0$1cf438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> I've been mostly a lurker on this list, having started only around the end of the year... But this track has been really interesting reading. So here is my story: I'm 45 and mostly act as a programmer, when I'm not forced to do pointy-haired management thingies. My first exposure to computers came in 1967/68 at a summer school during high school. I was attending a summer class series relating mostly to humanities/social sciences (dull boring etc.) but during the 3rd week we had a "technology break." They brought in this guy that was carrying a model 33 tty and a modem and he demonstrated a timesharing system that was in operating (freshly operating, it turns out) at the campus of Oregon State University. This system, called OS-3 (no relation to a later, os) ran on a Control Data 3300. I was entranced. After the talk, a few of us hung around to ask questions. I was the last one left when he decided to leave (about 5 hours later) and was promised a free account on the system later that month! (probably just to make me go away...) Up to that point, I was mostly a generalist geek. Ham radio, biology, math, etc. But the computer somehow resonated where these other fields hadn't. Two years later I enrolled at Oregon State and majored in Math (no CS degree back then.) Took a few CS style courses, but mostly did math. Late my freshman year I ran into another computer "Nebula" which had been built (under an Office of Naval Research contract) by the Math department at OSU. Said computer was in the basement of the math building and was available to any who wanted to play. And what's more, they didn't mind if you hacked it a bit - it was an easily modified machine and we added several instructions to it while I was there. Also wrote a LOT of code - much for class projects - but mostly for fun. Later I got a job in the Systems Programming dept that oversaw the 3300 and OS-3. Sorta bubbled to the top there (be a part time student for 6 years and you just outlive everyone else :-) My main job was overseeing the "front end" computer(s) that managed the multiplexing of 500+ terminals around the campus and the rest of the state of Oregon. These were muxed into the OS-3 system on the 3300. Later I wrote from scratch a new front end system for a newly designed mux put in place in 1976. Also did a lot of development and maintenance on OS-3 itself. First real job after this was for the company I now own. Started working in 1977 and bought it (with a partner) in 1981. We've done a lot of the things small computer companies do: some (early on) custom business applications, process control (in saw and plywood mills,) some security and access control, building automation (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) and other odds and ends. We now do (blech) Win95 and WinNT drivers/gui stuff (because people pay for that) and manufacture hardware and software used in specialized data collection and monitoring applications. For a few years we made oceanographic instrumentation, but spun that off to another company last year. Started collection old stuff back in 1972 (it wasn't old back then!) I won't bore you with the list (I'll make a web page with the stuff and pictures some day.) But my main items are an IMSAI 8080 with a Shugart SA4000 27 mbyte 14 inch drive. (This drive cost more than many enter workstations do today. But by 1978 standards it was BIG.) I once owned a PDP8/E but gave it away to someone who would actually use it. Now I wish I still had it (sob.) Having seen how easily information evaporates, I would add that my main interest in computer preservation (besides owning a few operating toys) is in fixing the documentation in a form readable by later parties. One of my recent efforts has been to get DETAILED information on some of the early relay and vacuum tube computers and build some working, demonstration circuits. It's been tough to track down actual circuit descriptions and diagrams for some of the old beasts. The museums that have them don't want you taking things apart to find out how they work, so I dig through old book stores and comb the web for folks selling/giving away old docs. Libraries help, but much of what I seek has been discarded as "obsolete." Pity. One of my prized books is "Giant Brains" by Edmund Berkeley. I acquired it at a library book sale since it had been "discarded." Written 1949 (when there were fewer processors in existence than many people have in a single house) it describes the computer, its operation and many possible future applications that are astonishingly close to what actually came to pass. It's a fascinating read. Thanks for the venue. Gary. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 18:47:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <19980303004712.11866.qmail@hotmail.com> I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax connectors. >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V AC. >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 18:54:34 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803030054.TAA26480@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Telebit modems > > Most modems take AC line transformers, so they can easily generate the > positive and negative voltages that real RS-232 interfaces need. If > you take the cover off and find a diode bridge rectifier at the coaxial > jack, you want an AC adapter. Probably 12 VAC or so. > > Most modems list the power requirement on the FCC sticker on the bottom. > Is this missing from yours? > Well, I opened up the modem and you're right about all. The modem did have a diode, as well as a fuse. I plugged in an old US Robotics transformer and it worked... thanks for the help! As for the FCC sticker, yes it was on the bottom but nowhere on the modem was a statement about power requirements - not even inside on the MB. Oh well. --maynard From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 18:57:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap Message-ID: <19980303005712.10721.qmail@hotmail.com> I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap weenie "home computers"? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 14:16:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 1, 98 07:10:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/f8bfd4d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:17:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: <199803021516.AA23364@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 2, 98 10:16:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/51a9c0cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:25:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week)) In-Reply-To: <199803021710.MAA14989@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 2, 98 12:10:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1408 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/ad3cbffe/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 2 19:17:01 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Enrico: model I Message-ID: <50937e6.34fb5a0f@aol.com> whatever happened to going private with stuff like this?! this is more off topic than anything else. In a message dated 98-03-02 02:46:52 EST, somebody started flaming: << Enrico: I have many Model 1 computers... as a matter of fact, I sent one to you! So don't think you just made a great 'caught-me' remark. I do have many. I don't, however, have a damn 4k Model 1 without the keypad on the right. That is what you're looking for, isn't it? Oh, I suppose you changed your mind -- again!?! Gees, Enrico, you never stop do you? I am being completely honest with you, what is it that you think I am hiding anyway? Black and white: I have model 1 computers, many of them. I have 0 Model 1 computers that you are looking for!! Figure it out!! Not Black and white: Why you are a complete idiot!?! Leave me alone until I e-mail you and tell you I have a Model 1 computer, circa 1978, with 4k of memory, and no keypad, ok? Damn, Enrico, I was even doing you a favor and looking for one for you.... You really know how to spoil someone's day, CORD >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 16:38:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Thanks and TRS-80 Score (was Re: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty In-Reply-To: <199803021738.AA28877@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 2, 98 12:38:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/be38f126/attachment.ksh From jrice at texoma.net Mon Mar 2 19:24:01 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> Message-ID: <34FB5BB1.2E8D9408@texoma.net> I usually just lurk, but.... I'm 44, I own an industrial automation contracting company and got my start on a TI99/4A (still have it) and shortly afterward bought a Model 100. My first PC was a Tandy 1000 for which I paid the inflated price of $2700.00 with two 360k floppys, 384k ram and the optional DMA chip. When I could afford the $600.00 10meg external hard drive, I thought I was flying. My collection is small at the moment: 3 Model 100's with 32k PDD's and PDD2's, bar code wands, modem cables and cups, printerr cables, DVI, Tandy printers; Tandy 1000SX with 640k, 20m hard card, 286 Express turbo card, digimouse, 232 ports, CM2 monitor; Apple Mac's several from Se, Se/2, P630, IIx with a lot of printers and accessories; 3 TI99/4A's, variuos cartridges and interfaces; Times TS1000; A large collection of PC's from 8088 to Pentium Pro 200's, a LOT of printers and plotters from Tandy PC695 to Calcomp 1043GT "E" size, and a lot of digitizing tablets (I use ACAD everyday). I had quite a few more machines, but my ex-wife won't turn them over in spite of several contempt orders from the judge. At least my new wife doesn't care what I collect as long as she doesn't have to clean around it, besides, she's into them as well. And the computers take up a lot less room than my other collection, machine tools. James From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 19:25:39 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB5C13.1C16319D@ibmhelp.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean > any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some > systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > 32-bit There are a few upgrade mobos around for some of the PS/2 MCAs, but your best bet is a CPU upgrade daughterboard. Generally, I would say to avoid MCA PS/2s unless you want to run them as is. FWIW, the resale for the PS/2 stuff is still pretty good, so you might consider reselling them if the price is right. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion Specializing in support for withdrawn IBM products, and conversion of IBM legacy data and media formats. dwollmann@ibmhelp.com http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:30:45 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <006101bd4644$1e3d5ba0$dfa1fea9@office1> Well, here's my bio: I am a 31-year-old banker in Syosset (Long Island), New York. Many of my waking hours involve lending millions to near-bankrupt companies without a clue. It's not sexy, but it's a job . As expected, I worked at Radio Shack from high school through college (I even got a 5-year service pin) Anyway, I digress. I really began collecting old computers about three years ago. It all started with the VIC-20 that I got when I was in junior high school (my all-time favorite; I learned 6502 machine language on that machine. Snif, snif. Sigh). From there, I added a Fat Mac that I owned in college. Then, a PET 4032 system (a gift from my former junior high school computer teacher), an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS), two Tandy Model 1's (one 4k, one 16k, with expansion chassis; works fine), a complete Model 100 system (with DVI and monitor), and an original IBM PC with expansion chassis. That was it for a long time. Then, I found this group... Well, I've loaded up on an Apple ][+, an Apple /// with a ProFile HD, several more VIC-20's (spares if anyone needs parts), a C64, several other CBM parts, a Compaq SLT/286 and dock (not really a classic, but free, all 25+ lbs of it), an original Atari 2600 in the box, a complete Apple //gs system, a Mac SE/30, and a Northstar Horizon with many random boards (this is my next fix-up project). I also have some software that I've collected (not all originals, though): DOS 1.1 through 6.22, Windoze 1.01, 2.0, 3.0, etc., VisiCalc, Lotus, and others. Then came my "drive and get it" phase, aka, the too big and heavy to ship. I have a Sun 3/50 and shoebox (more on this later), a DEC uVax-I in a BA23 case with several RD52 drives, and a complete PDP-11/34 system. This was the best - a complete system, just as if the guy ordered it 20 years ago with all manuals and enough spares to last a lifetime. I still don't have a complete inventory of the spare parts, but the rack has 2 RK05 drives, the CPU, and an expansion chassis. I just picked-up several RK05 disk packs with the original RT-11 distribution on it. It came with several boxes of documentation, and several binders that clip into a metal holder (like would hold the OED dictionary). My major focus from here on (because my wife has *suggested* that I have enough computers) is fill-in stuff: * Commodore software/hardware (cartridge slot expander, speech synth, IEEE card, games) * Apple game software/hardware (i.e., paddles and joysticks) * Apple Lisa (not really fill-in, but I can always slip one by...) * IMSAI 8080 (this one is pre-authorized by the "computer police") * Copy-II-PC card * PDP stuff for transferring files (maybe a paper tape reader/punch). I'm also in the process of getting an RX02 drive for my system. * Embedded/SBC stuff (like a KIM-1 or SYM-1) * Intel iAPX432 processor set I also am looking for non-classic stuff along the lines of embedded-PC stuff (x86 PC card on an ISA backplane, for example; for experimentation). I also have a passing interest in robotics (I'm specing a Mars rover style autonomous robot), gardening, and golf. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:25:55 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: SB180 (was Demography?) Message-ID: <006001bd4644$1d5b8720$dfa1fea9@office1> Sam: > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently). I think that that is Steve Ciarcia's 64180-based SBC, which ran various forms of CP/M. It was featured in the Sept and Oct 1985 issues of Byte (which I just happen to have; I can fax you the article if you want). I'd love to get one of those...I even saw a message once in comp.os.cpm that one of the co-authors was trying to work a deal with Steve to unearth an old stock of those and offer them for sale. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:29:47 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Demography? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Far as I can tell one of the few active women in legacy(old machines are > us) computing. For me thse old system were the computer I couldn't afford > when I was playing with them new. Well, unless someone else pops up, you're probably the ONLY woman into this sort of thing. You're like the Grace Hopper of vintage computer enthusiasts :) > 1 SB180 with SCSI adaptor and 20meg HD(also used frequently) BTW, what's this? Someone is going to sell me one and all I know is that it runs CP/M. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 2 19:09:56 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and 60mb tapes. My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install it. Any thoughts?? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Mar 2 19:45:17 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. In-Reply-To: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302204517.008538f0@hiway1.exit109.com> At 08:09 pm 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup >a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and >60mb tapes. > > My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with >NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and >trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or >copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the >CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install >it. I suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the Sun and go from there. I believe that since you have NetBSD on CD (v 1.2.1, I presume from the BSDisc), then the real trick is getting it to load the miniroot or some NFS mounted equivalent. My gut feeling (short of loading NetBSD on the PC) would be to see if you can 'dd' or 'rawrite' the miniroot to tape (I don't think the Sun bootloader will read the disk without a label). Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list Submissions: suns-at-home@net-kitchen.com Requests: suns-at-home-request@net-kitchen.com WWW Archive access: http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah and see if they have an idea. <<>> From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 19:52:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FA554B.77B486A0@bbtel.com> <34FA6051.6947F35B@rain.org> <34FAB3A3.538706B9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FB625A.86755CF4@rain.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > > haven't used them for anything but curiositys. I have no idea at this > time > > how common/rare they might be although I rather *suspect* there were > quite a > > few made (10s of thousands.) > > 10's of thousands in computers is nothing, you know that. When they get in > the > millions and billions like the PS, XT and AT they become commonplace. What > operating Commonplace is a relative term. With the Lobo Max-80 having a production total of 5000 computers and the Sol-20 production being 10,000, well, I think you see what I mean. > system does the Vector 3 run? Do you have any idea if it was made for a > specific > purpose such as a graphics workstation (in black and white)? I'd like to > know a > little more about it before I spend the time delving into it more or even > trying to > locate a new home for it (heavy beast). It runs CP/M and was intended as a business machine. Sorry, but I don't recall much more than that off the top of my head. They are fairly easy to work on and a friend of mine used his (now mine!) to do quite a bit of commercial programming. > The external case is probably the same for ones with or without a hard > disk but with > added MFM type cabling. If you have the controller card and cabling > already then I'm > sure you could easily add a 506 interface drive. > > I appreciate any info you can provide and if you have multiple copies of > the manuals > and may want to part with one, let me know. I do have multiple copies of some manuals, but except for the Vector 4, I am not sure of the others. When I get a chance to dig back to where they are stored, I'll take a look and see what I can find. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 2 19:56:54 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <006101bd4644$1e3d5ba0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <34FB6366.81A71180@ibmhelp.com> Richard A. Cini wrote: > > an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS) > I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion Specializing in support for withdrawn IBM products, and conversion of IBM legacy data and media formats. dwollmann@ibmhelp.com http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 2 15:07:22 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Telebit modems In-Reply-To: <199803030054.TAA26480@mail.iac.net> References: <9803030007.AA23578@alph02.triumf.ca> (message from Tim Shoppa on Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:07:21 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803030159.UAA09702@mail.cgocable.net> > Well, I opened up the modem and you're right about all. The > modem did have a diode, as well as a fuse. I plugged in an old US > Robotics transformer and it worked... thanks for the help! As for the > FCC sticker, yes it was on the bottom but nowhere on the modem was a > statement about power requirements - not even inside on the MB. Oh > well. > > --maynard > Should use 9vac between 500mA to 800mA and you will in business. I tried one 275mA transformer, USR 14.4kps ext. modem worked but would not dial or connect up so I went to RS and got a single 9Vac 800mA wall wart and it's kosher afterwards. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From wpe at interserv.com Mon Mar 2 20:19:39 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Hello References: <34FA379F.6F3E@wco.com> Message-ID: <34FB68B9.4146900F@interserv.com> I like the message. Hopefully it'll do some good! Will Sam Ismail wrote: > To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm > > I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group > of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve > some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you > may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines > you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value > you may be extracting from their circuits. > > I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find > the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not > compelling. > > Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts > of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of > would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer > Festival web page: > > http://www.siconic.com/vcf > > Sincerely, > > Sam Ismail > Vintage Technology Cooperative > http://www.siconic.com/vcf From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 2 20:24:16 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: Message-ID: <34FB69D0.ED6C193B@rain.org> Don Maslin wrote: > Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi > drives? Yes to both questions. I believe Micropolis drives were used but I don't know off hand what other drives were used in the computers. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 2 20:11:53 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: lurker bio In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980302164551.2ef77a8c@intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: > Can you tell me more about the GE 635s? I got a collection of old >programming manuals and they state that all the programs in them were >tested on a GE 635 and I was wondering what one is. IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an ancestor of the Mainframes that Honeywell made (Honeywell dropped the 'E' from the OS name and it became GCOS). GECOS is probably best remembered for the 'GECOS' field in the UNIX password file. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 2 20:45:25 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:27 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803030018.QAA31596@office.ao.com> <34FB5BB1.2E8D9408@texoma.net> Message-ID: <34FB6EC5.7AD2E5AC@crl.com> Okay, well I just signed up to this list today, and I see people are telling about themselves and their collections. Cool. I'm 37 and do network consulting (Netware, NT, Linux, IPX/SPX, TCP/IP, blah blah blah). Besides the Pentium 120 I'm typing on, and a half dozen assorted other PC clones, here are the machines in my collection: Apple ----- Apple IIe Apple III (loose system board, ps, and disk drive--no case!) Apple Mac Plus Apple Mac SE Atari ----- (wow, I can hardly leave my house without one of these machines falling out of the sky and smacking me on the head--I own two or more of each model listed here except the 130XE and Mega STe) Atari 400 (busted my cherry on this one) Atari 800 Atari 1200XL Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 65XE Atari 130XE Atari 520ST Atari 1040ST Atari Mega STe Coleco ------ Adam Computer module for Colecovision (biggest kludge in computing history?) Commodore --------- CBM PET 4032 (mmmm. this one is SEXY) VIC-20 C64 SX-64 (lovely) C128 Amiga 500 Compaq ------ Portable (the original Compaq XT clone? Model: COMPAQ) Interact Electronics -------------------- The Interact Home Computer (strange 8080a machine with RF out, chiclet keyboard, and integrated cassette. (C) 1979) Lawrence Livermore Laboratories ------------------------------- MST-80b (8080a machine nicely mounted in a briefcase! (C) 1976) Mattel ------ Intellivision ECS computer module (I need the keyboard) Aquarius Memorex ------- Custom Wire-Wrapped 6800-based System in Generic S-100 Backplane Box (I think from the panel scribbling, this was used to read/write digital audio tape--one switch at a time ;) maybe historical? maybe not.) Sony ---- SMC-70 (no video cable--I think this works, but I need the pinout on the db25 video jack!) Tandy ----- Color Computer 2 Color Computer 3 Texas Instruments ----------------- TI-99/4A Timex-Sinclair -------------- TS 1000 Most of the above stuff either works well, or is in need of minor work (usually finding parts and/or data books!) that I expect to complete soon, with a little luck. I'm pretty aggressively out there accumulating stuff at flea markets and surplus stores these days. I also own most every video game console ever made (I'm not exaggerating, much), over 1,000 game and app cartridges, at least a hundred calculators, and 15 coin-op arcade machines. I have a disease. When I'm not tinkering with all that stuff, I program the Atari 2600. Oh, and If anyone has an RCA Cosmac ELF available, drop me a line. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:38:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap In-Reply-To: <19980303005712.10721.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 2, 98 04:57:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/75e738c0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:44:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30236@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 10:32:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/087bd13a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:25:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards In-Reply-To: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 2, 98 03:10:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/48cf0bc1/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Mon Mar 2 20:48:05 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Help, Anyone know what this is? References: <9803020602.AA22027@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <34FB6F62.C71F8D46@interserv.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this > > thing was in, > > was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the > > top left is > > a centronix female connector. > > How many conductors? 36, if I counted corectly.... > > > > About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears > > to be a RCA > > type phono jack. > > Is there an edge connector, too? Nope.... On the extreme right, is some kind of 4 pin connector (power?) labeledCN1., next to it (left) is a smaller 7 pin connector, labeled CN10, Just to the left of that, is a 6 pin connector. labeled CN9. At the extreme left. is some type of 34 pin (again, if I counted right) connector (maybe 1/8" thick X 1 3/4" wide), then (l to r) some surface mount chips, labelled as follows. first one is TEC EC-A541 JAPAN 9151 E49 Next chip labelled TOSHIBA TMP90C04 1F 92094CZ Followed by two more, smaller surface mounts, both labelled JAPAN 9142 65256BLFP-121 00059990 > > > > two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a > > label on it, that > > reads as follows: > > > > 239X .STD > > V0.86 > > 92-2-27 23A7 > > Inscribed directly on the chip is: > > > > -150DC > > 1506NOT > > (copyright symbol) 1988 AMD > > Is there a quartz window under the sticker? This sounds like this > is an EPROM containing some sort of firmware. Yup! There's a window! > > > What other chips are on the board? Are they DIP's or surface mount or ??? > > Tim. Chip (with window) is DIP, others described above. surface mount...... Again, all help greatly appreciated! Will From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 18:57:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803022039.UAA12437@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 08:39:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/274a9547/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 2 19:17:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 2, 98 10:32:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/71bb1de0/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 2 21:01:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original > > apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that? > > There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent make > some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one - yet! Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? -- Doug From scottk5 at ibm.net Mon Mar 2 21:24:17 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <19980302231055.24513.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34FB77E1.47C1@ibm.net> Max Eskin wrote: Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > 32-bit Hi Max! Try: http://www.neointeractive.com They are selling Reply upgrades for PS2's....I put one in a little Model 25 and now it's a zippy little 486dx2/80...hope this helps. Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 2 20:50:07 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <01bd464f$138cd7c0$LocalHost@hotze> That's one of the things with PC's... they're all software-standard, but hardware versatile. For 486's, there's the Pentium Overdrives that some boards were equipped with (but Intel cut off the overdrives early), then there's also about 50 differnet chips that actually plug into the ZIF Socket, the fastest being the Evergreen one, which is based on a AMD K5 133, and has equivelent performance to that of a Pentium 102MHz. For the Zeineth PCs that the government bought in the 80's, the CPU was on a daughterboard, so that you could upgrade that to a 386, but God help you try to find one of those. -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 2:13 AM Subject: 486 upgrade boards >Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean >any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some >systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 >286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something >32-bit > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 2 23:53:07 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. In-Reply-To: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> (rcini@email.msn.com) Message-ID: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:09:56 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. > > I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup > a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and > 60mb tapes. > > My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with > NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and > trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or > copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the > CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install > it. > Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work (the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes). The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby? J. Maynard Gelinas From go at ao.com Tue Mar 3 00:43:48 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> References: <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> Apologies to the group for bringing up something that isn't a classic (yet) but you should check out the disk drive at: http://www.allelec.com They are selling off a bunch of HP "Kittyhawk" drives. At present they only have one size left (the 20 mbyte) model. Although this drive isn't 10+ years old, (like all things) it will be eventually and by then it may be too late to get one. The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) Just for formalities: I have no connection with this site or company except as an occasional (satisfied) customer. Check it out. Gary From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Mar 3 01:37:38 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: VAX and DECstation Ultrix? Message-ID: <199803030737.XAA08348@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980302/68c466c8/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 3 01:39:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Vector 3 info needed References: <34FB69D0.ED6C193B@rain.org> Message-ID: <34FBB3CA.1FC00375@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > > Is the Vector 3 also a hard sectored disk machine? Did it use 100tpi > > drives? > > Yes to both questions. I believe Micropolis drives were used but I don't > know off hand what other drives were used in the computers. This one, the Vector 3, has a Seagate FH 5.25" Seagate ST-506 5 mb hard drive and a Tandon FH 5.25" 720k floppy in the external case. Thanks for the info in the other message as well Marv. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 3 02:03:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <34FBB963.6627F5B2@bbtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) > Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the > academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full > time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as you and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they want janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the time and resources. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 02:02:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <005c01bd467a$ab56f880$60f438cb@nostromo> Yeah; I'm currently studying with two kids (3 and 1). Believe me... it will be much much easier now rather than when you have other commitments. Do it sooner rather than later :) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Demography? >R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > >> I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks) >> Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the >> academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full >> time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be. > >With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as you >and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they want >janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the >kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the >time and resources. From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Tue Mar 3 02:35:38 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <01bd462b$e674e340$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980303003538.006a1f38@vader.kootenay.net> My Name is Chris Halarewich And I am 27 years old and live in Castlegar British Columbia Canada I first got a computer in 1985 it was a COLECO ADAM witch i used for about 5 years but my first interaction with a computer was in 1979-80 at secondary school when i was 9 years old. We were one of the first pilot school districts to get computers Apple ][ and ][+ im BC my next computer wich i got after the adam was in the end of 1996 when i got a AST Advantage Adventure 575plus. mainly collect older vic 20's comodor 64 and old video games and systems like atari 2600 intevevision colecovision mainly at thrift stores like salvation army because i like seeing what's inside and what makes then tick..If i get anything interesting i will post it here first. Chris:) From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 02:59:17 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00db01bd4682$a6656e80$60f438cb@nostromo> >>I have a canon SX320!! >You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't >I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in >NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now. Yes, I checked the number this morning. My Canon SX320 was inadvertently left out of the list, along with... Sinclair ZX-81 (I've just ordered three unbuilt kits of these - still available NEW on the web, would you believe!!) Sinclair ZX-80 Sinclair Spectrum Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 (a whacking great 3581 bytes of program memory :) Canon 1614P (a punched card reading programmable desktop) A couple of Sorcerers Atari 800 Compucolor II Datanumerics DL8A ... I've forgotten what else I've forgotten. >Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other >than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line, >and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each >character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a >tape storage or cartridges or something for programs? I have not switched this machine on, actually. It is very dusty and sitting in my office at work. I will be happy to take a pic and place on a website should anyone be interested. It had a strange sort of tape storage - sort of like a little toaster oven at the top right of the machine. Unfortunately, due to multiple moves, I no longer have the tapes for this unit :( Cheers A From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Tue Mar 3 04:53:28 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <01bd4692$99720d40$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips have the same mark. Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP. It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085 Anyone have any idea what this is? Thanks Hans -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/699afcb9/attachment.html From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 3 06:23:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Wanted: Exidy Sorcerer technical Information Message-ID: <018201bd469f$276f6c80$60f438cb@nostromo> Would anybody with SOrcerer technical information, including user group newsletters and just about any Sorcerer documentation please contact me directly? I'm trying to restore a pretty neato homebrew setup here and sure could use some tech specs. Includes a 5M hard drive, twin Micropolis drives and about 100+ disks of software, custom BIOS mods for HD and FD access.... the works. Cheers A From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 06:31:14 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888957245@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully > informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway > >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax > connectors. > >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V > AC. Voltages like 204V and 208V mean it probably wants 3-phase. These are the phase-to-phase voltages on three phase systems where the phase to earth voltage is 117V and 120V respectively. It may only require two of the three phases, in which case you might be able to convert... The suggestion of using PC power supplies or similar is a good one but you may need something a bit more powerful. You need to know how much current it draws on each supply rail. I seem to recall that someone on this list has a working S/34. Could this person measure the current under various conditions? NB 5V rail current could be 100A or more, so don't just stick a multimeter in series with it! Use a proper shunt and millivoltmeter. A while back, I mentioned that I have some system/34 pocket references available to send to anyone with a s/34 who needs them. No-one has yet replied that I've seen. Any takers? The OS pocket reference is very thick (nearly 100 pages IIRC). Philip. PS Comparing the System/34 and the 8086 is not strictly fair - the 8086 appeared in laboratory tests in 1979 IIRC, while the S/34 was already on sale in 1977 I think. Things did shrink _very_ fast at that period! Also the S/34 has disks, - including my favourite floppy drive! - around 256K of memory, and other I/O that would have required several PC style boxes full of support chips, drives etc. for the 8086 in the late '70s. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 07:42:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> References: <199803030553.AAA01253@mail.iac.net> <005d01bd4644$1abdaac0$dfa1fea9@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303074249.2dc7410a@intellistar.net> Gary, Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a shame that HP quit building them. Joe At 10:43 PM 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >Apologies to the group for bringing up something that isn't >a classic (yet) but you should check out the disk drive >at: > > http://www.allelec.com > >They are selling off a bunch of HP "Kittyhawk" drives. At present >they only have one size left (the 20 mbyte) model. Although this >drive isn't 10+ years old, (like all things) it will be eventually >and by then it may be too late to get one. > >The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) >pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) >and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest >hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense >than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. > >I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" >computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) > >Just for formalities: I have no connection with this site or company >except as an occasional (satisfied) customer. > >Check it out. > >Gary > > > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 07:07:44 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888959585@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Joe on Kittyhawk drives: > Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a > shame that HP quit building them. Gary pointed us at a web site: > http://www.allelec.com according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive, but... Philip. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 07:36:20 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <199803031336.AA15106@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13336728234.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [S/34 3-Phase?] Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it... Is there some way around that? ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 08:04:18 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd46ad$42507ea0$LocalHost@hotze> Some of the drives that I've seen actually have the connectors extending out, as if they're on a seperate piece of equipment alltogether. Now, anyone know about what type of power connector (small, like on a 1.44MB floppy, large, like on normal HDDs, or non-standard?) Also, is there any way to make a 44-pin connector into a 40-pin connector (for a standard dekstop?) Also, I've gotten into the whole mini-PC idea. So, I want to build one. The hard drive'll probably end up being a Kittyhawk, I'm currently thinking an x86 CPU (as little power and size as possible. I know that the AMD Elan 400 COULD work but I haven't seen them resold, and I'd need drivers for the built in stuff, etc.) So, if anyone has any info on this, I'd love for them to contact me personally. (If they could put "Building a Mini-PC" or something in the subject, so I could know that it wasn't a ClassicCmp post...) TIA, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:17 PM Subject: Re[2]: A possible (future) classic. >Joe on Kittyhawk drives: > >> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a >> shame that HP quit building them. > >Gary pointed us at a web site: > >> http://www.allelec.com > >according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE >drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive, >but... > >Philip. > From wheagy at erols.com Tue Mar 3 10:09:35 1998 From: wheagy at erols.com (Winfield Heagy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Hi, Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few descriptions on the Web, but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an opportunity to get one but don't know much about them. Thanks...Win wheagy@erols.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 3 10:30:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's In-Reply-To: <01bd46ad$42507ea0$LocalHost@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 3, 98 05:04:18 pm Message-ID: <9803031630.AA28810@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1531 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/2d4d4ce1/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 10:47:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803030644.WAA03027@office.ao.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Gary Oliver wrote: > The drive is very small (about the size of the smallest PostIt(R) > pad.) HP claims it is the smallest hard drive ever made (1.3 inch) > and they don't make them anymore. I imagine it may be the smallest > hard disk that will ever be made, since flash is already more dense > than this drive. At any rate they are fairly inexpensive. The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other than the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about the size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them. And then there was the Maxtor type-II PCMCIA hard disk. That's right, it was rotating media enclosed in a type-II card (not the type-III or type-IV cards most PCMCIA hard disks use). I think they killed this drive after making a few samples, but I saw it at COMDEX one year and was very impressed. -- Doug From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Mar 3 10:41:15 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: More 34 Message-ID: <9802038889.AA888972365@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > [S/34 3-Phase?] > Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller > version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my > PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but You can do three phase on only three wires - most long distance power lines are done that way - but that would be unearthed, and therefore not recommended. If it is a 190/208V version rather than a 220/240V version it is probably expecting two of the three phases plus ground. > nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it... > Is there some way around that? Dunno. Passwords are only 4 letters IIRC so shouldn't be that difficult to crack if you've got a terminal emulator card in a PC. I'm afraid a quick glance through the pocket reference hasn't revealed anything useful :-( Philip. From kevan at heydon.org Tue Mar 3 10:49:14 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Sun 2/120 (clone) available in the UK Message-ID: <199803031649.QAA18737@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard, mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards. It is big and heavy, so collection from Cambridge UK is preferred but I would consider delivering to a location not that far from me. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From jmg at iac.net Tue Mar 3 11:28:25 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] Message-ID: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand loyalty.... --jmg ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100 From: Christoph Meyer To: maynard@jmg.com Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem Sorry, we don't support Telebit equipment any longer. cerm - -- TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de) Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de) Geiststr. 68 48151 Muenster Germany Tel: +251/97 256 70 Fax: +251/97 256 79 ------- End of forwarded message ------- Damn! From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 11:50:52 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other than > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about the > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them. I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable shorter in length and taller. SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16" Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8" PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess. (measurements done with a crude tape measure.) -- Doug From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Mar 3 11:55:49 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401176FCD@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> PCMCIA drives are 2"W x 3 1/4"L x 3/8"H. Note that the SyQuest media size doesn't really count because the rest of the drive was in the PCMCIA card (heads, motor, electronics). I have a DTR-1 also, BTW... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:51 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: A possible (future) classic. > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other > than > > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though. > > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about > the > > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't > > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of > them. > > I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by > side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable > shorter in length and taller. > > SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16" > Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8" > PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess. > > (measurements done with a crude tape measure.) > > -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 12:49:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803031849.AA10280@world.std.com> The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other tha Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303135540.007f6240@netpath.net> At 01:49 PM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a >IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use >PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as >10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I >really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real >cheap. SurplusDirect (www.surplusdirect.com) had some 40mb PCMCIA hard drives on sale a while back. Brand new units, priced around $20-$40, can't recall exact price. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 13:05:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <199803031849.AA10280@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a > IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use > PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as > 10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I > really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real > cheap. 3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also available. And the Kittyhawk is a tiny drive mounted sizeways on the circuit board, so you get a standard 2.5"-style IDE connector (I think) in a very short package. Are you looking for drives that are still produced in quantity? If not, the Kittyhawk 20MB drive would be a good one to get (at the website mentioned previously). -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 13:26:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803031926.AA15378@world.std.com> <3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and some > of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a > company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the > DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash > harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for > external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard > all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's (new?) credit-card computer, see: http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ -- Doug From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 3 15:16:06 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] In-Reply-To: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 3, 98 12:28:25 pm Message-ID: <9803032116.AA18663@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 781 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/0b97c742/attachment.ksh From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 3 15:22:16 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any information. Thanks- Marty Mintzell From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Mar 3 15:36:53 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > information. > > Thanks- > > Marty Mintzell > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 12:18:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Old CPU In-Reply-To: <01bd4692$99720d40$f73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Mar 3, 98 08:53:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/015a85d5/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Mar 3 15:38:30 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD54011773C6@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 > > One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but > have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what > disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? > > George Rachor > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > > information. > > > > Thanks- > > > > Marty Mintzell > > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Mar 3 15:56:11 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD54011773C6@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Greetings Kai, Thanks for the info. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for > the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller > board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive. > > Kai > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 > > > > One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but > > have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what > > disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available? > > > > George Rachor > > > > ========================================================= > > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access > > > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any > > > information. > > > > > > Thanks- > > > > > > Marty Mintzell > > > > > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 3 16:27:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803032227.AA21487@world.std.com> < Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor < Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of < business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've < been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were < actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access < time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any < information. crock! PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were very late in the program when they were nearly gone. I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded. Allison From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Tue Mar 3 16:35:27 1998 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:28 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34fc801b.3927473@mail.tgis.co.uk> Well lets have a go , I feel like an OAP on this list , I'm 50 most are in there 20's and 30's left school at 14 started work in a local garage had a misspent youth Stock car Racing them Circuit Racing with some success . Started my own business 20 years ago repairing car engines still doing the same thing to this day . we Specialize in Classic and Vintage car engines . In 1981 It all started with a ZX81, I then Got into Ham Radio ( G4VLL ) and started going to Radio Rally's ,and seeing Computers for sale at low prices the temptation was to much so 1 hear and 1 there and it soon got up to about 200 , Things have slowed down off late but that's a good thing as room is getting tight . I also collect Camera's Radio's and Gramophones , So roll on when the kids leave home I will Have 3 spare rooms to get all this stuff out and play with it . All the best Chris Denham From go at ao.com Tue Mar 3 16:57:19 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803032227.AA21673@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803032257.OAA14108@office.ao.com> At 05:27 PM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor >< Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of >< business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've >>> snip > >crock! > >PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and >over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were >very late in the program when they were nearly gone. > >I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded. > >Allison > I would tend to agree. My company (for a couple years) sold a few Sol-20 systems into a turnkey business application (before Helios.) We used two Persci drives and a home-brew disk controller (hey, it was early and we didn't like what was on the market.) The OS was home-grown, as necessary for the application. The Persci's performed very well, thank you. Did need the occasional (about every 6 months) alignment, but it was a quick 10 minute job once you got the hang of it. The performance of the drives more than made up for this periodic hassle. Only problem I had was those &$^%# light bulbs in the track sensor. As they aged (and near their end of life) the drives got to be real picky about seeking long distances. Was really glad when they went to the LED illumination. Unfortunately that was AFTER our product was dead. Still have a couple of the (working) drives at home. At least they worked last time I powered up a couple of years ago. :-) Gary From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:09:58 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Vector vs. Bitmap Message-ID: <199803032309.XAA09859@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> max eskin... :I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it :meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, :and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics :stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap :weenie "home computers"? dunno about first - but in vector graphics, you have a crt under direct control of the computer, and you tell it to go to a point, switch the beam on, go to another point, maybe switch the beam off, etc. etc. very high resolution, but refresh speed is inversely proportional to the number of lines on the display. in bitmapped graphics, you use a conventional rasterised display (the horizontal lines) and a map of bits which correspond to each line of the display and say whether the beam is on or off at that point. unless you count williams tubes, vector graphics came first, because you could use any old oscilloscope and memory was precious. now memory is cheap enough to make bitmaps viable in even the smallest computers, and monitors are readily available. the price paid is blocky lines. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:04 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09881@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> tony duell: :Another thing worth grabbing are old data books. There are standard :chips that are used in old computers - things like the 8271 disk :controller, the AM2900 bit-slice chips, 4004's and 4040's, etc that :don't appear in recent data books. A data sheet will help you to :determine if a chip has failed, and how to make a replacement if it :has. I'm trying to obtain all that I can. before we were seriously interested in this stuff - or rather, since we were designing 68000-based computers at the age of 12, between interests - we had a whole stack of data sheets donated by a teacher's boyfriend who worked for the uk distributors of sage before they became stride. (what happened to them, btw?) it's a damned shame that when we were about 16 we threw the whole lot out to regain some space in our bedroom. if only we knew then... :< we'd give anything to have them back. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:09 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: lurker bio Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09890@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> zane healy on ge635... :IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating :System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an they ran gecos. the ge645 would support multics, but the 635 didn't have the paging hardware. the multics faqs make great reading, btw. http://www.best.com/thvv/ (from memory, might be wrong, might be ~thvv) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:21 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA09954@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :As Joe said, HP classed a lot of things as 'calculators' to get :round daft export rules... :IIRC, officially the HP71B is a computer (QWERTY keyboard, Basic), :but the HP48 is a calculator (alphabetical keyboard, RPL). They use :virtually the same processor (Saturn), although the HP48 has a few :more machine instructions. cx ( <- hello, from firstborn) it's possible that marketing could have something to do with that too. we'd rather, and we suspect most engineers would rather, use the hp48 - but since rpl fits in well with hp's use of rpn in its calculator range, it probably fit better into the calculator family, and would have been more targeted at the engineers who cut their teeth on its predecessors. :> (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack :>between meetings? ;> ) :You mean _during_ meetings, surely... well, we meant between design meetings, when one would assume they'd all be focused on designing the next piece of kit they could hack during meetings with the pointy-haired bosses... ;> (now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. we've heard about hp.) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:33 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> tony duell: :>have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in :>britain will gravitate to chez duell... :I wish.... There are still machines I am looking for - PDP's other :than the 8 or the 11, a straight-8, more P800 series stuff, etc, :etc,etc. Oh, and somewhere to put them :-) well, the schematics for the pdp6 are available, so at a pinch you could always rebuild one. :> :> on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as :>suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to :>about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to :>mention making sure the :Not that hard. You design it as a synthesiser, of course. Probably :not that much worse (and similar in design) to the multi-speed :motor controller. probably. in fact, it might even be easier, because you don't have to worry about controlling anything physical. on the other hand, since you'd need a speed regulator in the disk drive anyway (and iwrc they tend to be plls) you might as well give that a range of frequencies to chew on and keep the data transfer stuff simple. there are arguments either way - about the only thing we would say, though, is that software is cheaper than hardware in scrap terms, and whereas commodore was already huge, woz was on a leguminous budget. :> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in :>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, :>certainly in later :Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to :doing everything in software, alas... ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare minimum of hardware. :There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent :make some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one - :yet! yes, we believe so. there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too, were there not - eg. sun 386s...? but then it's a lot easier to make a non-compatible 386, given its somewhat multiplicitous architecture. just ignore real mode in the design of the hardware and you're away... protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it was a missed opportunity. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:39 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10028@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> doug: :Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and :others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one, more to the point? :> but we meant things that were more like the sirius 1 in conception - desktop machines, but not stuck with the cruddy pc architecture. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:10:44 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803032310.XAA10051@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-02 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature" :computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?) off-topic, but... the computer we would really love to use has a main box that's the size of 2 3.5" floppy drives one atop the other, and standing on that is a little 6" mono crt with a resolution of 384x256. the keyboard is about the size of the keyboard on the cambridge z88. the processor is a hitachi 6309 running in native mode, and the software is forth. and you have to hold the thing when you put a disk in. needless to say, there's no hard drive, but the floppy can fit 1800 screens on it, so that's no problem. of course, it was never made... but we'd love to see it. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 3 17:32:32 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10028@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and > :others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here? > > oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one, > more to the point? :> I searched the net and didn't find a single one for sale. And then I decided I wanted flashing lights on my supercomputer, so I searched for bargains on a Thinking Machines CM-1 or CM-2, but couldn't find any :-( If you merely want to program a hypercube, I remember that there was a simulator available and it ran on Xenix (which I think was also running on a non-PC 286 desktop box from Intel at the time). Given the number of cast-away machines in the world, I've been thinking about revitalizing the original Cosmic Cube code from CalTech and building the world's cheapest supercomputer using the old boxen. Unfortunately, I think if we combined all of our collections, we might be able to scrape together a few 100 MIPS, and we'd have a little communication bandwidth problem.... -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 18:42:31 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> Win, They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. They use a special monitor and video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher resolution than standard CGA. Joe At 11:09 AM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few >descriptions on the Web, >but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an >opportunity to get one >but don't know much about them. > >Thanks...Win > >wheagy@erols.com > > > From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 18:31:42 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303163142.00f8fa10@pop.batnet.com> At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >tony duell: >there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too, >were there not - eg. sun 386s...? It was called a 386i, and they're not hard to find. I think I have one :-) >protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it >was a missed opportunity. Not by Novell. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 18:28:56 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA09954@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303162856.00f8c930@pop.batnet.com> At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired >bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair >that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and don't know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's carpet because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in the backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:18:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 3, 98 04:22:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1060 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/fac95d7c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 3 17:41:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 3, 98 11:10:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980303/5b96e2d7/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:32:01 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datamaster ROMs (was Demography?) Message-ID: <00e201bd470a$ba7ad8a0$f823fea9@office1> On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:56:54 +0000, David Wollmann wrote: >>I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s >>from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the >>electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the >>numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see >>if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks. It is the "09" ROS. Here's the diagram that I got from Philip Belben: ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:26:08 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <00e101bd470a$b94517c0$f823fea9@office1> On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:45:17 -0500, John Ruschmeyer wrote: >>suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were >>running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the >>Sun and go from there. I think what I'll probably too is trash the HD on an "experimental" 486 that I have and install either NetBSD or SCO OpenServer. From there, I should be able to create a boot tape and an install tape, and then start the install from the 3/50 >>Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list Thanks for the SAH list. I already belong. No specific ideas from anyone there yet. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 3 18:35:33 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Setting-up a Sun shoebox. Message-ID: <00e301bd470a$bb8766a0$f823fea9@office1> On Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:53:07 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas" wrote: >>Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via >>bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's >>here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work >>(the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes). >>The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're >>going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you >>have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby? I have a small Windows LAN at home, but no Unix boxes setup. I guess that this weekend I'll be setting one up... Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 3 18:47:42 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303164742.032eecf8@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: > They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. Pretty much true... > They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted below) is a prime example. The '6300 was Olivetti's (OEM'd by AT&T) take on a 'better' PC. It failed. >Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their drives from. >They use a special monitor and >video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >resolution than standard CGA. (see note above) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 20:16:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <19980304021627.29106.qmail@hotmail.com> Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a 68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized) keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it. > >At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote: >>(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired >>bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair >>that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser. > >Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers >that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and don't >know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's carpet >because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in the >backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 3 20:23:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <19980304022331.3162.qmail@hotmail.com> >I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 >was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >below) is a prime example. Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into one of those? >>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. > >The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of >the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their >drives from. > I will say that my only experience w/a 6300 was one that got to me because of a dead hard drive. I ended up gutting and trashing it. I hold old microchips in the fan housing. This was also my only experience with a dead hard drive. Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC clone? P.S. In OOP, can an object kill another object to inherit it? >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 3 20:31:15 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> Marty wrote: > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor Technology both spoke. The production numbers were 10,000 with approximately the first 5,000 being produced as kits, and the last 5,000 produced as assembled units. I don't recall the date they went out of business (1981???) but it will be on the tape. From my recollection of the talk, the reason they went out of business was more along the lines of bad business decisions rather than hardware problems. Interesting sidelight, they had the original prototype at the talk and they tried to fire it up (it didn't) for the first time in some 25 years or so. From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 20:39:16 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd4716$b9a828e0$LocalHost@hotze> I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself... ><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is >I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok. 2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe (http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed on their website, you'd have to ask them... And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40 MB versions,with 80MB coming soon... >The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design). Same here. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 3 20:39:32 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's Message-ID: <01bd4716$c3501560$LocalHost@hotze> OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a small one? -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's >On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and some >> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a >> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the >> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash >> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for >> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard >> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) > >Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there >are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC >with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM >PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's >(new?) credit-card computer, see: > http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html > >To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for >their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ > >-- Doug > > From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 20:44:23 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303184423.00faeb00@pop.batnet.com> At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote: >Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where >Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor >Technology Bob Marsh. >I don't recall the date they went out of >business (1981???) May 14, 1979. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 3 20:41:20 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <19980304021627.29106.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303184120.00e52870@pop.batnet.com> At 18:16 3/3/98 PST, Max wrote: >Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a >68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized) >keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it. That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, a TI-92 is a 10 MHz 68K; they can both graph like bandits and are adequate game machines. I've always called them computers and, though my stand-straight-and-salute loyalty is to HP, I have harbored impure thoughts about a 92; just never quite parted with the $160 for one. (Now, if I could hook a Kittyhawk to a 92....) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 3 22:28:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980303164742.032eecf8@agora.rdrop.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> At 04:47 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: >> They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >>several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >>instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software >there. > >Pretty much true... > >> They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. > >I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the '6300 >was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >below) is a prime example. You're might be right about the video if you had a program that wrote directly to the video memory since the AT&T did have a higher resolution. However they are compatable at the DOS level. One friend of mine still has two of these that he bought in 1986 (?) and he's has never found anything wouldn't run on them. He's not the kind to collect every program that he sees so that may not be a difficult test. > >The '6300 was Olivetti's (OEM'd by AT&T) take on a 'better' PC. It failed. > Not necessarily. AT&T's marketing is what failed. That's what happened to the 7300, 3B1 and the 3B2s as well. >>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO. > >The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most of >the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their >drives from. Well, I'll put it this way. Four of my friends bought these machines new and none of the hard drives lasted a year. One lasted less than two days. To me, that's unreliable. They all replaced the built-in hard drives with hard cards and all lived happily ever after. > >>They use a special monitor and >>video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >>color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >>the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >>resolution than standard CGA. > >(see note above) ??????? Joe From lfb107 at psu.edu Tue Mar 3 21:38:56 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> At 06:23 PM 3/3/98 PST, Max Eskin wrote: >>I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the >'6300 >>was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted >>below) is a prime example. >Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into >one of those? Yup, just set switches 5 and 6 to on dipswitch 1 to disable the video controller. >Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC >clone? I think it was just meant to be an enhanced PC clone. I have to admit tho, the 6300 case design is still one of my favorites (looks real purdy sittin' next to a 3B2) and not a bad overall machine for it's age. Les PS If anyone else needs any dipswitch settings, etc. I have the tech manuals. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Mar 3 22:25:53 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:28:16 References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > However they are compatable at the DOS level. Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and 150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running across both, as well as the IBM PC. -Frank McConnell From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Mar 3 22:52:16 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980303225216.006cd244@pop3.concentric.net> I see the color monitors here (Twin Cities) alot from 1 to 30 dollars. John At 06:42 PM 3/3/98, you wrote: >Win, > > They're not as common as PCs or Commodores but they're not rare. There's >several in a trift store here (Orlando) including one 6300+ (286 CPU >instead of 8086). There is also two complete sets of docs and software there. > > They are totally IBM compatable and most use 8086 CPU. Hard drives were >optional in them and not very reliable IMO. They use a special monitor and >video card and connector (DB 25). Color monitors for them are rare but the >color and monochrome monitors both use the same video card. The power for >the monitor is supplied through the video connector and they have a higher >resolution than standard CGA. > > Joe > >At 11:09 AM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few >>descriptions on the Web, >>but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an >>opportunity to get one >>but don't know much about them. >> >>Thanks...Win >> >>wheagy@erols.com >> >> >> > > > From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 3 23:25:57 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> <3.0.1.16.19980303222816.2c2715dc@intellistar.net> <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <34FCE5E5.25C306AB@crl.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > However they are compatable at the DOS level. > > Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and > 150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct > hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running > across both, as well as the IBM PC. Yeah, the thing is that almost no software for the IBM PC world avoids that. Certainly nothing I ever wrote ;) Int 8, 9, 10h, 13h, 14h, 16h are all pretty much automatic, along with direct video access and timer and interrupt port accesses. Maybe the 6300 can survive all that though... Just because it had higher resolution capability doesn't mean standard modes won't be mapped the same as an IBM. I wouldn't know. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 3 23:22:12 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <34FC2B3E.8E92ED33@erols.com> Message-ID: <34FCE504.AED1ED16@rain.org> Winfield Heagy wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few > descriptions on the Web, but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to For what it is worth, I met a guy at the TRW swap meet who has about 6 or so of the AT&T 6300. He mentioned a price of about $40 for a system and I believe besides the box, monitor, and keyboard, it also included software and manuals. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll pass your name along to him when I see him at the end of the month. I could post his name, but I only know him my his location :). From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 00:32:31 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> It arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") Cheers A Datanumerics DL8A web page... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 4 00:56:29 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > It arrived 10 minutes ago. > I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. > Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. > Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 00:59:20 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <003901bd473b$0f227180$31f438cb@nostromo> Altair in sheep's clothing? Not a chance! Wait till you see inside! The motherboard is organised in ROWS of chips, something like A to F And... it's stationed at the top (ie: roof) of the machine. Amazing amazing. Its an 8080A by the way. A -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, >I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans >Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): > http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm > >Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? > >-- Doug > > From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 01:10:44 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <34FCFE74.338B6DC5@crl.com> Andrew Davie wrote: > > It arrived 10 minutes ago. > I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. > Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. > Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status lights--I've got a fetish ;) I had a pretty decent day myself. After striking out at a weekday flea market, I stopped by this surplus store and inside a box of PC and Mac boards I stumbled over a Synertek SYM-1 board :O ["Five bucks for this old thing? This ain't a PC dude, I'm not gonna be surfin' the net with it--look at the date on this thing: 1978! Hmm. Four bucks? Oh, all right..."] It looks ready to go I guess, with a 4K PROM and 1K of RAM and everything more or less new looking. I'll try and pinout the power connector and see what it can do (well, it's 6502, so I'm sure it will ROCK!!!) Lots of interesting buttons on the little membrane keypad, and a whopping 6-digit 7-seg display ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From archive at navix.net Wed Mar 4 03:07:17 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? Message-ID: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Greets: Yep, this last weekend I picked up another truckload of goodies. Mainly Apple stuff but there is some TI, Mac, IBM, etc., stuff in there. The list follows here. Please let me know if you want any of this! Amazing how, until two weeks ago, I had very little Apple stuff, and now I have more than I can handle!! Also, for all of you who responded the last time I made a similar post, thanks for doing so! Your help on identifying many of the items was great. And for all of you who have requested stuff, I apologize in getting back to you in such a deliquent manner.... the e-mails are on file, I've just been so busy lately! I will get back to you and get this stuff out to you, that's a promise!! Please take a look at the URL in my signature at the very bottom... there's the complete inventory of what I have on-line, and also pages for what I am looking for. Other pages I have there are some interesting links, an Adventure International page (the classic game company-- Scott Adams), my autographed memorabilia page, classic computer photo gallery, downloads, and this 'what's new' list, and some other stuff you may like to browse. Anyway, here is the recent list of what I just got. Let me know if you can take some off of my hands or have some info. on it, ok? Thanks for your time, CORD -------------------------THE LIST----------------------------------------------------- Computers/CPU's ----------------------- * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these more rare than the tan cases? Model # PHC004a Ser # 8184424. *Apple //e computer. This has 2 drives attached internally as well. This computer also has keys with white lettering on them. I have others that are black lettered (???). Model # A252064. The twod rives are Disk ][. Drive Model # are A2M0003. Seriel # on the drives are: 416072 & 788419. Computer ser. # is 020130. Oh, computer also has a printer cable coming out the back. * Apple //e computer. This one has a volumn adjuster and a large ear-phone jack added into the case. Also this model has a the light to the left of the open-Apple button. Black lettering on the keyboard. Has been stripped of all the cards out the back, although looking in, it has some stuff in there yet. Model # A2S2064 * Apple //e computer. Has been stripped of just about everything internally. Need to open it up to see what exactly is there still! Monitors ------------ * Apple monitor: Model #A2M2010 - green phosphor with internal tilting screen. * Macintosh 12" Monochrome Display. Family #: M1050. Has a note that says, "blury screen." Haven't tested. * Apple Monitor ///. Model #: A3M0039 - made in June 1983. * Disk Drives/Other Storage --------------------------------- * Apple 3.5" disk drive... is this for Mac only or //e, etc also? Model #m0130. * 2 Apple Disk // drives... More info found above in the CPU section -- attached to a machine. * IBM 4869 5.25" disk drive. I have 3 of these. They have big, heavy duty cables attached which go to the machine. Does anyone have more information on these? Printers ---------- *Printer Pro Parallel Printer Interface for the Apple //+, //e, and //GS computers. With original box and instructions, cable and all original packaging. * Two Apple printers that weigh a ton!! Tan cases, 80 column printers (?) Model #: A9M0303. * Apple // Imagewriter // printer. * Apple wide-carriage printer (160 column?) Model # A9M0305 - no power cable. Books/Manuals --------------------- * Ernie's Quiz by Apple & Children's Television Workshop. Manual * Level II BASIC Reference manual for the TRS-80 - 2nd Edition. * Apple HyperCard User's Guide. * Apple // 80-Column Text Card Manual. * Apple // AppleMouse User's Manual * Ashton-Tate Developer Registry, 2nd Edition. Ashton-Tate made Dbase /// Plus. 540 pages. 1988 * Tank Tactics Teacher's Guide for Program Nos. 1-7 -- for Apple and TRS-80, TRS-80 CoCo. With plastic * PCA/XT 88 Personal Computer User's Guide. 143 pages. No clue who published this, but a ton of good info. * Wing Commander ??: Vengeance of the Kilrathi manual. By Reveal Computer Products. 23 pages. * Learning BASIC Programming in 14 days on Your Commodore 64 by Gil M. Schecter (SAMS). 192 pages. * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer Manual User's Guide #26-2960. 200 pages (?) * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer Guide to Printing in Colour. #26-2963. 40 pages(?). * Radio Shack JP1000 Ink Jet Printer - Printer Driver User's Guide. 20 pages(?) * Write Now v. 2.2 for the Macintosh manual. 235 pages. * HyperTalk Beginner's Guide: An Introducting to Scripting. For Mac. 150 Pages. * Macintosh manual. (2 copies... one has water-damage). 160 pages. * Atari Games & Rectreations. Programming book for the Atari 400 and 800. reston Publishing Company.338 pages * The Epson Connection: Macintosh by Rick Dayton. 260 pages. Use of Epson printers with the Mac. * Apple // Monitor // User's Manual.12 pages. (2 copies) * Tandy Personal DeskMate 2 manual... for the 1000 series. 463 pages. * Apple // Apple 5.25 Drive Owner's Guide. 18 pages... for //,//+,//e,//c,//GS computers. * Apple // Extended 80-Column Text Card Supplement - for //e only. 60 pages. * Apple // 80-Column Text Card Manual for //e only. 75 pages. (2 copies) * About You Enhanced Apple //e: User's Guide. 14 pages. * BITFax manual: A Communications Program for Send Fax Modems. By Bit Software, Inc of Multipas, CA. 91 pgs. * Apple direct magazine. Vol. 3 No. 2 Nov. 1990. 32 pages. * Apple schematics sheet by Data Technology. The card this is for can be found at the bottom of the misc section * Apple // Technical Notes - May 1988 written by Scott Knaster of Apple Computer. 200+ pages, Stapes and 3-ring punched. Miscellaneous ------------------- *Archer joystick for a PC. It has a fairly 'tall' stick on it, with two buttons on the front. Also has trim settings, auto fire option, A/b selectors for both directions, and four suction cups on the bottom. Has both 15 and 9 pin plugs. *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? *MCP AP-16 Memory Module: I would like some info on this. This is some type of expansion card, etc. It is about 8 inches long and 3 inches wide. It contains 18 chips, 10 of which say AM9016EPC & 8248FMP. The other chips are labeled SP225, SP229, P218, SP245-b, SP220, and SP238. The card also has a red switch on it. Really no other information... oh, it also has 4 led lights. Please let me know something about this! *Expansion card of some sort for the Apple //e. This is about 3"x2" as is (c) 1988 by Applied Engineering. It says ][e 64k on the side by the 'plug-in', and on the other side is says KEYBOARD. Please let me know how this thing is used! * 1.5 foot cable. Adapter of some sort. Looks like a PC joystick adapter. 15 pin male to 9 pin female. * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... didn't realise they made joysticks. Has a 9 pin connector on it. Does anyone know what computer this was for, or when it was made? * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more tips on what this might be. Software ----------- *Apple Presents the //e: An Introduction - and a backup copy which has been copied. *Apple DOS 3.3 DemoDisk * Courseware Sampler by Random House: Tutorial Comprehension. Side A & B - Apple * Courseware Sampler by Random House: Tutorial Comprehension. Side C & D - Apple * Apple //e and //c Diagnostic Disk * Using Context Clues, Program #1. for the Apple //. By Imperial International Learning Corp. * Sequencing Events, Program #4 for the Apple //. By Imperial International Learning Corp. * The O'Brien Vocabulary Placement Test by Activity Records for the Apple // - 48k. * Blank double sided disk * Knowledge Master disks. Used in schools for a national competition. Geez, I used to use these in school! For the Apple and I got 6 copies. * Mastertype's Writer for the Apple //e and //c. By Scarborough Systems, Inc. * Teacher's Software Library by the Duncan Institute of New Port Richey, FL. (Apple?) * Scholastic PFS: Write for the Apple //c & //e. By Software Publishing Corp. * Math Shop for Apple //+, //e, //c. By Scholastic. * Telewrite-80 vers. 1.0 Rev. B -- not original (copy).... for what computer I don't know? * IBM Assistant Home Solutions by IBM. * Visicalc in original box by VisiCorp Personal Software. Has both original disks and two backups. Original Manual, notebook for all, etc. * * 3.5" disks for the Mac. Hyperdrive boot disk, HyperStudio, Stupid Mac Tricks by Bob LeVitus, 3 disk by EduComp. -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 01:39:23 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <004601bd4740$a7d9f4c0$31f438cb@nostromo> I've placed the requested view on the page... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html The motherboard is marked REV A The serial # of the machine is 00029 I doubt there could have been many more of these made. Enjoy! A -----Original Message----- From: Greg Troutman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >Andrew Davie wrote: >> >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status >lights--I've got a fetish ;) From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 01:54:50 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Vector 3 Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget the name of the other. I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 02:16:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and > I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. <...> > > I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & > clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one ^^^^^^^^ It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not very common over here. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 02:25:59 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these > more rare than the tan cases? Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often as the tan case model. > * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on > the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, > some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... I have a Laser 50, but it's currently dead. It looks kinda neat, but I haven't spent any time yet trying to revive it. > * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 > various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more > tips on what this might be. Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't remember. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 4 02:41:41 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> Les Berry wrote: > >Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into > >one of those? > > Yup, just set switches 5 and 6 to on dipswitch 1 to disable the video > controller. Not a viable option on the earlier 6300s. Angry customers caused that to change with a major motherboard revision. I don't know what the numbers are on the two varieties (the WGS series is a different and more PC compatible situation), but I know that a non-trivial number of 6300s which _couldn't_ accept video cards came in for service when I was at a long-time AT&T retailer in the late 80s. >Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC > >clone? The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix and the first DOS-under-Unix product, DOSMerge 1.0. Which worked fine, if slowly, as long as you just did DOS system calls, not hardware calls (as mentioned earlier in this thread about the 6300 video subsystem). Of course, if you held yourself to DOS calls instead of hardware calls, performance sucked on all straight PCs and clones, which is why most software never ran on superior equipment like the Tandy 2000, the original TI Professional or the AT&T (original) 6300 series. DOS-under-Unix products can trap those vectors nowadays, but early efforts and systems relying on MS-DOS alone didn't have that ability. > I think it was just meant to be an enhanced PC clone. I have to admit tho, > the 6300 case design is still one of my favorites (looks real purdy sittin' next > to a 3B2) and not a bad overall machine for it's age. Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 02:49:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Good finds this day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > That sounds like the Intel MDS800 box. It takes multibus cards - the <...> > Time for you to start collecting (8-bit) Multibus stuff... I knew I should've picked up the two I saw at another stall but I wasn't quite sure what to make of them. One was interesting...it had a Z80 and a 68000 on it. I was once at a surplus shop that had tons of these boards but I never bothered with them because I didn't know what they were for. They've since been scrapped. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 4 02:51:55 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Maybe something fun! Message-ID: <34FD162B.613C9D07@crl.com> I snarfed this ad off some classified ads web site. Maybe someone in Southern Cal has a truck handy.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPLETE network system, 1 mainframe, 7 stations, fast & reliable, great for small business, sacrifice, $350 or trade for ? (310) 822-4052 $350 -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:01:29 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <34FB6EC5.7AD2E5AC@crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Lawrence Livermore Laboratories > ------------------------------- > MST-80b (8080a machine nicely mounted in a briefcase! (C) 1976) Now THAT is something to hold onto! > Memorex > ------- > Custom Wire-Wrapped 6800-based System in Generic S-100 Backplane Box > (I think from the panel scribbling, this was used to read/write digital > audio tape--one switch at a time ;) maybe historical? maybe not.) And this one too! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:24:08 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) In-Reply-To: <199803032310.XAA10007@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in > :>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, > :>certainly in later > > :Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to > :doing everything in software, alas... > > ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's > a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare > minimum of hardware. The Apple Disk ][ Controller boot ROM is a thing of absolute, unrivaled beauty. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:26:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Hello (fwd) Message-ID: Here's the response from Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert". A hint of promise, I suppose. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:48 -0500 From: Qs To: Sam Ismail Subject: Re: Hello I will visit your web page and keep you in mind, sometimes the historical value of things do outweigh its scrap value. Regards, Jim Sciuto -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: quiksand@tiac.net Cc: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:36 PM Subject: Hello >To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert" > http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm > >I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group >of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve >some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you >may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines >you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value >you may be extracting from their circuits. > >I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find >the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not >compelling. > >Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts >of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of >would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer >Festival web page: > >http://www.siconic.com/vcf > >Sincerely, > >Sam Ismail >Vintage Technology Cooperative >http://www.siconic.com/vcf > From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 03:28:37 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I've never had any problems with mine, thankfully. Does anyone have a > service manual/schematic for these drives - just in case mine ever fail? There's a good chance that I do but I won't know until I organize my stuff. I'll let you know if/when I find them. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 06:35:42 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:29 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <00b301bd476a$0d17a200$31f438cb@nostromo> Re: Sorcerers down Under. There was a strong user group base down here in the late 70s and early 80s. I remember having a real hard time deciding between a Sorcerer and an Atari 800. I eventually chose the Atari, with no regrets. But, I seem to remember the Sorcerer as being fairly common. Not easy to find now, but a lot of us down under collectors seem to have one or two (or three, but I won't tease too much). Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Demography? >On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > >> I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and >> I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years. ><...> >> >> I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 & >> clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one > ^^^^^^^^ >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 06:43:39 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's Message-ID: <01bd476b$282aac80$LocalHost@hotze> OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a small one? -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's >>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> >>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and >some >>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a >>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the >>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash >>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for >>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard >>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.) >> >>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there >>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC >>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM >>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's >>(new?) credit-card computer, see: >> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html >> >>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for >>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try: >> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/ >> >>-- Doug >> >> > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 06:44:22 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <01bd476b$41c452e0$LocalHost@hotze> I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself... ><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is >I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok. 2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe (http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed on their website, you'd have to ask them... And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40 MB versions,with 80MB coming soon... >>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design). Same here. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 06:43:48 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00e401bd476b$2e1a7300$31f438cb@nostromo> I should be more careful what I say. It's not a clone of an 8800b. I have no idea about the 8800a. A -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> It arrived 10 minutes ago. >> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it. >> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it. >> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!") > >OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix, >I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans >Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975): > http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm > >Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing? > >-- Doug > > From eve at powerup.com.au Wed Mar 4 06:55:17 1998 From: eve at powerup.com.au (Eve Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve> -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > The Sorcerer was marketed in Australia by a nationwide group called "Dick Smith Electronics" which was a pioneer in the home computer market here in many ways. They also sold a TRS80 Model 1 clone called "Dick Smith System 80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the "Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys underneath. I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of Australia if we ever become a republic!) I have here a data sheet for the Sorcerer from 1979 or 1980 in which the 8K machine cost $A1295 and the 16K cost $1395. The only extras advertised then were a cassette recorder for $A35 and the monitor for $A150. from Brisbane, Australia Phil Guerney From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 07:07:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Dick Smith Wizzard Message-ID: <016801bd476e$8a21fda0$31f438cb@nostromo> >80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the >"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two >paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves >of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for >the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys >underneath I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module. Cheers A PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when sending to the list? From Guerney at uq.net.au Wed Mar 4 07:17:17 1998 From: Guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <003d01bd476f$dc1138a0$32f665cb@eve> -----Original Message----- From: Eve Guerney Oops, Eve is my daughter! I must learn to make sure the message gets posted from the correct account on this machine I may as well take the chance and add some real demography info. I'm new to actually collecting old micros, but I have thought about if for a while! I have my original VIC-20, C64, Amiga500 and now also a beautiful mint condition TRS80 Model II and an Apple ][+ and a one owner Atari 800. I got a Coco1 and a CoCo2 this week, consoles only, but I can't get anything on the TV from them yet so they may be just rubbish. I'm a mid-40's scientist working in the minerals business in Brisbane, Australia. I DREAMED of owning a Sorcerer more than anything else in the world when a postgraduate student (graduate student to you North Americans) in 1978, then in 1979 a PET would have done me. Money shortage kept me from actually owning a micro until the VIC-20 dropped to $A299 here in 1982. I joined the local Commodore Users Group and stayed with them through the C64 and the Amiga days, even becoming President of the group for two years through the last days of Commodore while our membership finished its shrinkage from over 1000 (in the late 1980's) to less than 50 now. Now I am just learning the best ways of picking up and looking after these marvellous machines. Any other Australians who want to make themselves known to me are welcome. from Phil Guerney Brisbane, Australia. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 08:21:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.1.16.19980303184231.47778198@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304082133.45bfab88@intellistar.net> At 08:25 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> However they are compatable at the DOS level. > >Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and >150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct >hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running >across both, as well as the IBM PC. > Or at least they're supposed to. But the AT&T is compatable enough that it will run IBM DOS, that's a lot more than many of the machines of that age will do. The AT&T and Zeniths are the most compatable machines that I know of for that time period. AFAIK the AT&T and Zentih are both compatable at the BIOS level as well as the DOS level. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 07:40:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible/ builing with old iron Message-ID: <199803041340.AA07730@world.std.com> <(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales@dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB Here's a stretch. If anybody has a Helios II disk drive available for sale or trade I'd be eternally grateful. If Gary has any spare Persci drives I would be grateful to get one of those also. I have recently acquired a Sol-20 and have a NorthStar controller with a 5 1/4" floppy drive (which I haven't got up and running yet). I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this package) have failed thus far. Thanks for any help or hints- Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 4 07:49:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. In-Reply-To: <01bd476b$41c452e0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <13336989154.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I could see a use for that... By making a NanoPC (?) small enough, I could have a console for my uVAX 2000 that I could tape (or something?) to the top of the machine - Then I'd truly have a portable VAX! Maybe if I do go make creative use of batteries... Ehehe... VAX LUGGABLE! (That'd be fun for the trips to Indy! They could be driving away, and I could hack VAX in the backseat..) ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 07:56:04 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd4775$46370ac0$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/2e69a433/attachment.html From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:04:54 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible/ builing with old iron Message-ID: <01bd4776$822333a0$LocalHost@hotze> >Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The >whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not >suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something >under 100mb is more resonable for my project. Don't ask me!!! I didn't know waht CP/M was until a week ago. Funny story. I've looked all over the Internet for stuff on my II+, but found II, IIc, IIe, etc. stuff instead. Then, I look at my school library, and I find a 84/85 edition of a kind of "computer encyclopedia", and a book called "Apple II User's Guide", which only covers the ][ and the ][+. >????? What are they and approximate cost. For the 80 MB version, it's soupossed to cost around $80. Be warned, these are 1" chips that are soupossed to contain Windows 95/98 on them (with room for expansion, etc.) It's like a hard disk on a chip. I've only heard about them. The advantage is relatively low cost, but definately lower power consumption and less space. I'm trying to build a machine myself. Right now, I'm into hardware, software'll come later. I'm thinking an ELKS machine, or such. Where the heck can I get hardware that isn't aimed for 10,000 units? Like 1 or 2? Using IDE, probably a 386/486 chip, and I'd need graphics, etc. Can someone please help me? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:06:31 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd4776$bbf2b380$LocalHost@hotze> Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM Subject: List not working? Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/04981f83/attachment.html From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 4 08:34:57 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: List not working? Message-ID: <01bd477a$b4815940$LocalHost@hotze> Now, it's not working again. Sorry, this discussion seems to be pretty one-sided. ;-) Sorry, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:09 PM Subject: Re: List not working? Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM Subject: List not working? Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze (Please contact me at photze@batelco.com.bh if you have more info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/a4b03f90/attachment.html From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 08:44:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> < < I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but < there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid < of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this < package) have failed thus far. Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch do to a memory problem or other system fault. Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble shoot from there. Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS* controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot and do nothing. FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU! If I were nearby I'd offer to help. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 08:44:15 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Fw: A possible (future) classic. Message-ID: <199803041444.AA11051@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304103004.5377fc04@intellistar.net> At 01:07 AM 3/4/98 -0800, Cord wrote: >Greets: >* Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these >more rare than the tan cases? Not in my experience. I've seen dozens of silver TIs but only one tan one. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:31:30 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304103130.53777dbc@intellistar.net> FWIW I have two Vector Graphics 8K memory boards in my Altair. At 11:54 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California >> (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix > >Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector >Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two >housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget >the name of the other. > >I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:50:14 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't >remember. > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 10:53:50 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> References: <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >> >clone? > >The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix Ward, Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? Joe From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Wed Mar 4 10:04:05 1998 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the keyboard wreaking havoc. If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly, you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?) capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things to do. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu From lfb107 at psu.edu Wed Mar 4 10:47:16 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803041649.LAA83684@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> >Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black >fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly >as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black inserts, etc.) les From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 11:04:36 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34FD89A4.67097CCE@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > >remember. > > > > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. > They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if > they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. DTC stands for Data Technologies Corp and they're still in business, with a web site at http://www.datatechnology.com/ and there are info and setup docs available at TheRef(c) as well, located at http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/. MFM, RLL and ESDI contollers generally have one 34 pin header for the "data" cable (and some have another 34 for the floppy controller) and two 20 pin "control" cables, one for each drive the controller is capable of interfacing to. IDE controllers have one or two 40 pin headers (and possibly a 34 for floppies). There are other things the controllers should be looked at for in the older machines as well. The average MFM, RLL controllers are usually a 1:3 or 1:4 interleave controller but many of the better ones are 1:1 interleave. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:04:48 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor > > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of > > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've > > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were > > Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where > Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ = Bob Marsh > Technology both spoke. The production numbers were 10,000 with > approximately the first 5,000 being produced as kits, and the last 5,000 > produced as assembled units. I don't recall the date they went out of > business (1981???) but it will be on the tape. From my recollection of the > talk, the reason they went out of business was more along the lines of bad > business decisions rather than hardware problems. Plus I believe some animosity started to form between the two at the time. I'll be making a VCF 1.0 session compilation tape which will be made available on the web site in about a month (need to seek approvals from all involved). Some of these were great talks (the Felsenstein/Marsh talk was especially entertaining). There's a lot of good history. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 11:06:20 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <002c01bd4737$593bb320$31f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 4, 98 05:32:31 pm Message-ID: <9803041706.AA21123@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 569 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/fb01b4b1/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:07:34 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980303184120.00e52870@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, a TI-92 is a 10 MHz 68K; > they can both graph like bandits and are adequate game machines. I've > always called them computers and, though my stand-straight-and-salute > loyalty is to HP, I have harbored impure thoughts about a 92; just never > quite parted with the $160 for one. (Now, if I could hook a Kittyhawk to a > 92....) Wow! I never thought I was playing with such power. This baby helped me immensely in some calculus courses I took a couple years back. I gladly paid $200 for it as it was another cool gizmo to add to my portfolio of techno-gadgetry. Naturally all my class-mates were jealous. Who'da known it would be a classic some day? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:17:40 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box > about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so > tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic > self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, > TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch > wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by > themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > *Expansion card of some sort for the Apple //e. This is about 3"x2" as > is (c) 1988 by Applied Engineering. It says ][e 64k on the side by the > 'plug-in', and on the other side is says KEYBOARD. Please let me know > how this thing is used! A 64K/80 Column card for the Apple. This plugs into the auxiliary slot. The "KEYBOARD" is there to make sure you don't plug it in backwards (the "KEYBOARD" end should face the keyboard). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 11:28:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: Message-ID: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box > > about 5 inches by 3 inches. The joystick itself is just 2 inches or so > > tall. Has trim settings also. Two buttons, which look like classic > > self-destruct buttons or something. Is was made by TG Products of Plano, > > TX. To connect it to a computer, it has a long blue ribbon cable (inch > > wide?) with 15 pins on the end. The pins are just out there all by > > themselves! Is this for an Apple computer? > > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also used the Apple socket type joystick. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:27:23 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead video ROM. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 11:34:44 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Message-ID: Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Mar 4 11:35:05 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Here's my contribution. I must confess to not having read all the previous ones - traffic on the list has been somewhat high and my boss has been making noises about my spending so much time reading it :-( I suppose I'll have to get TCP/IP on my IBM 6150 ... My name is Philip Belben and I'm an electrical engineer by trade. I work for PowerGen, one of the electricity generating companies formed when the UK split up its electricity industry in 1990. I'm 30 years old (31 next week) and still single. I live alone in a 3-bedroom house full of computers and other electronic junk, located at Coalville, England. My introduction to computers was when my school got a Commodore PET in 1979. Suitable pestering of my parents meant that I received a secondhand, 8K PET for my 13th birthday in 1980. I then caught the computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer science even though they had no-one to teach it. After leaving school at 18 I did a year with IBM (Marketing - UGH!) before going to university. At university in 1987 I met Tony Duell, who had just founded the P850 User Group to preserve old computers. I caught the collecting bug at about that time, and I now have around 60 of the things. Old computers is just one hobby among many, though. I also write music; I play the organ at my local church (yes I am a Christian), and also sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my camera is a Yashicaflex 635 (late 1960s?) that I bought for 6 UK pounds (just under $10) at a charity auction. My car is a 1971 Marcos Mantis - a British kit car of which about 32 were made and 14 are believed to survive - which I bought two years ago because I wanted something sportier than my 1965 Ford Anglia (I shall always regret getting rid of the Anglia). I also have a 1948 Fordson (= UK brand name for Ford commercial vehicles until 1950s) truck, useful for carting computers around. When I get the truck back on the road, I intend to join the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. Since this is not strictly on topic, I'd better not say any more! Philip. From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 11:44:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.124305.1767.85759@smtp.itgonline.com> Could I get a copy of the tape or a transcription? Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/3/98 9:51 PM At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote: >Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where >Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor >Technology Bob Marsh. >I don't recall the date they went out of >business (1981???) May 14, 1979. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar03.215115.1767.30006; Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:51:15 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA22466; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:46 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA29288 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:39 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id SAA02135 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:37 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17015; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:44:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980303184423.00faeb00@pop.batnet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:44:23 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <34FCBCF3.F7DD9B30@rain.org> References: <1998Mar03.162204.1767.85515@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 11:59:29 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.125853.1767.85763@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Allison. As the VDM-1 is built-in I obviously can't pull it but will check for a bad trace etc. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 9:53 AM < < I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but < there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid < of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this < package) have failed thus far. Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch do to a memory problem or other system fault. Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble shoot from there. Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS* controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot and do nothing. FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU! If I were nearby I'd offer to help. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.095317.1767.30083; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:53:18 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id GAA14619; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:30 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id GAA25332 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:19 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id GAA00327 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:44:07 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA25056; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA10912; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 12:04:18 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.130252.1767.85766@smtp.itgonline.com> Great information, thanks Scott, and thanks as well to Allison. I'll check the archives for the keyboard mail. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 11:19 AM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the keyboard wreaking havoc. If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly, you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?) capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things to do. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.111904.1767.30103; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:19:04 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA25044; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:19 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA17026 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:10 -0800 Received: from xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (xtal.pharm.nwu.edu [165.124.225.192]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA22544 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:04:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (ware@localhost) by xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00316 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:05 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:05 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Scott Ware To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 4 11:57:40 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> At 11:28 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >Sam Ismail wrote: > >> On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: >> >> > *Joystick.... I'd like some information on this one. It is a tan box [snip] >> >> This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in >> the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing >> you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty >> joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > >These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also >used the Apple socket type joystick. Was this the same Sanyo that was sold as the "Silver Fox" or something along those lines? Back in 1984 when my wife and I were looking for "our" first computer, we had originally settled on the Leading Edge/Mitsubishi and called to order one from an outfit in AZ. As usual, we were a day late, Mitsubishi had just put the clamps on the Leading Edge mail order business the day before. We managed to "bribe" the salesman to "buy one for himself" and ship it to us on the sly, but he got cold feet and backed out. Our second choice was a toss-up between the PCjr and Silver Fox (??). We ended up with the PCjr, which may or may not have been the better of the two. Now I have about thirty PCjrs in storage in different states from empty boxes to complete units. Before the jr was unplugged for the last time, it ran the NPCjrUG BBS with a 10MB Racore hard drive (blew up two disk drives before we got a good one, one just from wifie's vacuum cleaner bumping the desk--needless to say, the carpet around daddy's desk was "hand cleaned" from then on) a Racore 384K expansion in the drive stacker, a 128K Microsoft sidecar with bus mouse and one of the first three USR Courier 2400s in Tulsa, as far as we know. We were so cool. Of course, I'm getting old (39 this July), so I may have the chronology a little screwed up. I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 12:14:42 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 12:39 PM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > package) have failed thus far. This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead video ROM. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.123957.1767.30125; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:39:58 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA27618; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:28:02 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA25104 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:38 -0800 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA01692 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:37 -0800 Received: from shell (shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id JAA19437 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 13:01:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California > > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two > housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget > the name of the other. Seems to me that somewhere in their history that they were based in Westlake Village (L.A. suburb). - don > I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 13:03:43 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these > > more rare than the tan cases? > > Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often > as the tan case model. > > > * Joystick -- called Laser Joystick. It is small has has 2 buttons on > > the side. I know of the Laser computer series, etc. (I have a Laser 300, > > some kids computers, and want a Laser 50!) by V-tech... > > I have a Laser 50, but it's currently dead. It looks kinda neat, but I > haven't spent any time yet trying to revive it. > > > * Some type of expansion card... presumably for the Apple. Has 19 > > various chips on it. Made by Data Technology Corp. Would love some more > > tips on what this might be. > > Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > remember. They also manufactured MFM/RLL hard disk controllers. - don > -- > mor@crl.com > http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 13:17:10 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> Message-ID: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> David Wollmann wrote: > >These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it > also > >used the Apple socket type joystick. > > Was this the same Sanyo that was sold as the "Silver Fox" or something > along those lines? Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. > Back in 1984 when my wife and I were looking for "our" first computer, we > had originally settled on the Leading Edge/Mitsubishi and called to order > one from an outfit in AZ. As usual, we were a day late, Mitsubishi had just > put the clamps on the Leading Edge mail order business the day before. We > managed to "bribe" the salesman to "buy one for himself" and ship it to us > on the sly, but he got cold feet and backed out. Our second choice was a > toss-up between the PCjr and Silver Fox (??). We ended up with the PCjr, > which may or may not have been the better of the two. Now I have about > thirty PCjrs in storage in different states from empty boxes to complete > units. I guess you wouldn't want to buy a PCJr color display then (grin). You ended up way ahead, believe me. At least the Jr runs MS-DOS that the others can run, not a hacked version. > Before the jr was unplugged for the last time, it ran the NPCjrUG BBS with > a 10MB Racore hard drive (blew up two disk drives before we got a good one, > one just from wifie's vacuum cleaner bumping the desk--needless to say, the > carpet around daddy's desk was "hand cleaned" from then on) a Racore 384K > expansion in the drive stacker, a 128K Microsoft sidecar with bus mouse and > one of the first three USR Courier 2400s in Tulsa, as far as we know. We > were so cool. I too put a lot of unecessary time and money into my "compatible" to find that it was a real pain to hang onto. I've had offers of free Sanyo (I pronounce it Say-No anymore) four or five times and without hesitation refused them all. No more Sanyo anything in computers for me. I ran Fido off 4 floppies on the Sanyo as well down in Champaign-Urbana Illinois for a while too. > Of course, I'm getting old (39 this July), so I may have the chronology a > little screwed up. Wanna trade? I just turned 41 last month. > I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... I haven't even scratched the surface but you can imagine. > http://www.ibmhelp.com/ Pretty nice site, I'll have to explore this one more.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 13:19:30 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: Message-ID: <34FDA941.51C8A5CB@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two > > housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget > > the name of the other. > > Seems to me that somewhere in their history that they were based in > Westlake Village (L.A. suburb). This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the room for it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 4 13:16:43 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Scott Ware wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > > > I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but > > there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid > > of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this > > package) have failed thus far. > > Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive > unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of > one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit > board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the > key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam > disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film, > and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the > keyboard wreaking havoc. (shameless plug warning) BTW: I have rebuild kits for these keyboards available. ($25/ea - replacements pads and instructions) Details on my website... (at least it was on-topic, no?) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 4 13:29:50 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I > haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"? (same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show up like this. This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry. (ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...) Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 4 14:04:50 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:30 2005 Subject: Old CPU Message-ID: <199803042004.UAA12062@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :The PMOS one needs somewhat strange supplies (+5V and -7V from :memory). I can probably find more data if you need it. I certainly :have the SC/MP instruction set, etc. we'd like that, please... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 4 14:23:14 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304142314.008bbaf0@ibmhelp.com> At 01:17 PM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >David Wollmann wrote: > [snipperoo] > >> http://www.ibmhelp.com/ > >Pretty nice site, I'll have to explore this one more.... > I think it's kinda lame right now, the top destination page and top exit page is the list of links to IBM on the web, if that tells you anything. :) The funny thing is, most of the hits come from Research Triangle Park, he he he. I've got an IBM tech specs database about 70% complete and we're going to put it on the site. It includes all the Family One, almost all the PS/1s, PS/2s, Aptivas, etc. and some of the midrange boxes. The only problem right now is, ASPs seem to be a little shakey, and as frequent as crashes are on the NT/IIS box our site is on, I'm afraid to try it since my queries are going to pull about 35 columns (several with lookups) on a busy box. I may wait until I finish switching over to dedicated ISDN with a router and move the site over to our own Linux box running Apache. I think I'd rather spend my time learning Postgres than Mickeysoft's stuff anyway. Soon as I get my Snappy I'm going to start adding some pics--shooting every IBM box I have and every one that comes through here, then copy the GIF to the database. The next step is to dump all the old 8" Displaywriter, System/23 and 8" and 5.25" System/36 software distribution diskettes we've got here out to disk and press a CD of the images--the media are starting to get a little dicey. They won't be worth anything to anyone else unless they have a MicroTech 8" on a PC, or something similar, but I really want to preserve these binaries since IBM doesn't archive them. If I can ever find time, I want to start archiving the old manuals too. Anybody got a spare ADF for a ScanJet 4p? All this, and a System/36 emulator for Linux. Dave, the Rambling Computer Crazy From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 15:36:34 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304115740.007e4d90@ibmhelp.com> References: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304153634.48df309a@intellistar.net> At 11:57 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I always wondered what that Silver whatchamacallit would have been like... > I had one and you DON'T! want to know! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 15:40:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: References: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304154059.48dfbcce@intellistar.net> At 11:03 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > >> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: >> >> > * Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer - with the silver case. Are these >> > more rare than the tan cases? >> >> Not in my experience. I've seen the silvers about 4 or 5 times as often >> as the tan case model. I just came back from a trip to a trift store (brought back a truck load of computers^H but that's another story). They had both a silver and a tan model there. The tan one was in the original box with the original styro-foam "take-out box" liner. Joe From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 14:49:04 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.154727.1767.85827@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks for the response Jim. I'll check this out tonight and email results tomorrow morning. I don't recall a pattern but will look for that tonight. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 2:56 PM On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I > haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"? (same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show up like this. This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry. (ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...) Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.145654.1767.30161; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 14:56:54 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA09316; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:58 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA29216 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:51 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (0@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id LAA15296 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (1566@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24585 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: James Willing To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 14:52:27 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803042052.AA27052@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304155349.48df2ad0@intellistar.net> At 01:19 PM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: > >This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the room for >it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. Hi Russ, FWIW I went back to the place where I found the original Vector disk and searched throught their pile of disks and came up with about 15 more hard sectored disks. At least two of them are originals. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 15:04:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> <> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable from what I gather. Allison From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Mar 4 14:08:12 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: [cerm@router.de: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem] In-Reply-To: <199803031728.MAA08132@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <199803042040.OAA07856@onyx.southwind.net> I would advise you to send them an e-mail with this text: "Wer etwass von sheise versteht weiss Ihre Telekoms Dinge zu schaetzen!" Basically, it tells them that they can all go to Hell. Jeff > While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice > classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved > from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the > original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand > loyalty.... > > --jmg > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100 > From: Christoph Meyer > To: maynard@jmg.com > Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem > > Sorry, > we don't support Telebit equipment any longer. > > cerm > - -- > TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de) > Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de) > Geiststr. 68 > 48151 Muenster > Germany > Tel: +251/97 256 70 > Fax: +251/97 256 79 > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > Damn! > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 15:17:06 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> They are marked 2102A Indeed... 8212 Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't want to any damage. What are the things I should check? Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:08 AM Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... >> Datanumerics DL8A web page... >> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html > >Nice pictures. Are those white ceramic 2101's or 2102's in the back of >the board? Are the 24-pin chips by the ribbon cable connectors Intel >8212's, by any chance? And it's hard to tell from the pictures, but >are the big chips near the RAM banks EPROM's or PROM's? > >A few people have remarked at the similarity of the front panel to the >Altair, but that's hardly surprising: they're both just straightforward >displays of the status signals available on the 8080A... > >Tim. > From engine at chac.org Wed Mar 4 15:29:05 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304132905.00f38740@pop.batnet.com> At 16:04 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. My kid paid $30, from another kid who was saving up for a 92. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Wed Mar 4 15:25:46 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says they'd be less than $50 each. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:44:30 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve> Message-ID: In article <001601bd476d$4cd0c680$32f665cb@eve>, Eve Guerney writes >I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just >re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he >advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson >adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil >aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of >Australia if we ever become a republic!) The System 80 was also sold as a Video Genie, IIRC, and in NZ as a "C/Micro" by a company that was buying them from the same place as DS was. I did a lot of work on them, and I have to say that they weren't exactly the best quality machine in the world, but then I guess neither was the TRS80. I think the best of the TRS80 derivatives was the LNW, in terms of build quality and function. Still, the System 80 sold well. I used one as a serial terminal for my IBM 360/30. It must have had one of the multi-function expansion cards which fitted under the main board and had a load of connectors on the left-hand side for serial, centronics, FDD etc. I remember we used to do RAM expansions by the solder-one-chip-on-top-of-another method, oh what fun. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 4 15:48:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <1998Mar04.164835.1767.85860@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks for the the glimmer of hope. Count me in for an order. Any assistance Lee can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get this Sol up and running in as original condition as possible. Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/4/98 4:40 PM At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: > Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying > the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong > is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says they'd be less than $50 each. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar04.164018.1767.30185; Wed, 04 Mar 1998 16:40:19 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA25678; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:31:23 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA13846 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:32 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id NAA31553 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:31 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA24132; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:25:46 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 15:56:02 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive Message-ID: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha? A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system, but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in. Is it treasure or trash? Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 16:01:05 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <01bd47b9$07a026e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> From: Andrew Davie >They are marked 2102A >Indeed... 8212 >Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A > >Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying >any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't >want to any damage. What are the things I should check? > >Cheers >A > 2102s are 1Kbit x 1 static RAMS, the memory of choice in the 70's, power hungry but easy to design with. An Intel 8212 is an 8 bit latch (should be a 24 pin DIP), commonly used on 8080 boards to latch some control signals. 1702s are 256 x 8 (2Kbit) EPROMs, a real pain to program, that's probably where your boot code is. Jack Peacock From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:03:46 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 08:17:06 am Message-ID: <9803042203.AA31378@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/6ded09e5/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:07:04 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 4, 98 01:56:02 pm Message-ID: <9803042207.AA32737@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/59db86f6/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:07:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD89A4.67097CCE@bbtel.com> References: <34FD19C3.13F83130@navix.net> <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304170721.2f8773e2@intellistar.net> At 11:04 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't >> >remember. >> > >> >> Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. >> They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if >> they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. > >DTC stands for Data Technologies Corp and they're still in business, with a web >site at http://www.datatechnology.com/ and there are info and setup docs >available at TheRef(c) as well, located at http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/. > >MFM, RLL and ESDI contollers generally have one 34 pin header for the "data" Yes, I know the difference. I just haven't seen the controllers in a couple of years. Thanks for the URL though, it might be handy if I ever find the controllers. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:16:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304171610.4387a1b6@intellistar.net> A friend of mine found one a couple of weeks ago at a hamfest for $5. Joe At 04:04 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. > >Allison > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 17:21:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304132546.00f607d0@pop.batnet.com> References: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304172146.506fa19c@intellistar.net> At 01:25 PM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote: >> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying >> the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong >> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)? > >Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some >new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says >they'd be less than $50 each. > Kip, Give me the particulars of the ROMs and I'll ask a buddy of mine that owns a fab company. BTW can't these be done in EPROM? Joe >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 16:29:29 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars Message-ID: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> Although recent world-wide test results have proven otherwise, the US board of education seems to think that calculators improve students' minds (I feel that the insane amount of money that schools put into technology these days is better spent on books and teachers). Therefore, in our school most seniors and juniors either own or rent a TI-8x. The TI-83 is the one that the school actually promotes, but TI-85s are often stole...ahem....seen as well. My friend is probably one of the few there to have a TI-92. I'll bet it could run System 1.0 with a few modifications ;) >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable >from what I gather. > >Allison PS That OS I mentioned earlier is essentially Win3.1 for TI. It is a concurrent windowing interface. Right now, he's trying to figure out the concurrent part... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:33 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: SCSI cards Message-ID: <19980304223434.5027.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have an extra ISA or MCA SCSI card? I have a pair of 80MB macintosh hard drives that I want to use... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:48:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Mar 4, 98 05:35:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1010 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/e6f866fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:56:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 4, 98 01:14:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/2feb8b02/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:38:48 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 4, 98 02:29:29 pm Message-ID: <9803042238.AA32182@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/6e3f6650/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 13:39:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Mar 4, 98 10:04:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2182 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/ecf91cdb/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 16:52:31 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive Message-ID: <01bd47c0$36f41260$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> From: Tim Shoppa >> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no >> docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came >> with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape >> drive > >Sure - it's a rebadged CDC Keystone, Pertec formatted interface. Is that the same interface as a TS05? I have a TSV05 Q-bus controller, same dual 50 pin cables. >>, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 >> Q-Bus > >Sure. Is the card a DQ132? It's a DQ152, rev A, dual wide Q-bus card, with 2 50 pin ribbon connectors. It uses an 8097 controller CPU (part of the MCS-96 family if I recall correctly), 14.745Mhz xtal (an odd speed, something Pertec related?), a couple gate arrays (Q-Bus and Pertec interfaces?), an EPROM, and a 2063 type static RAM. Circuit board has a 1986 copyright date >*Do not* plug the Dilog card into a Q-bus if the board number begins with >DU. That would be a Bad Thing. Customer doesn't have any Unibus machines, I thought of that The board has one jumper block, I assume for the CSR address. It's a single in-line 10 pin header, with pins 2 and 3 jumpered together. Might someone have the settings for this? If not I'll try the VMS newsgroup. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 16:55:33 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47c0$36f41260$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 4, 98 02:52:31 pm Message-ID: <9803042255.AA29417@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 990 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/7e77d1cc/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:08:21 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304132905.00f38740@pop.batnet.com> References: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803042300.SAA20388@mail.cgocable.net> > At 16:04 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > > > >I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable > >from what I gather. > > My kid paid $30, from another kid who was saving up for a 92. Allison, that is about right on average; 20-40 at most. I know because I saw that many time for TI82, 85 and way down cost on 80's. And, I have 30mb 2.5 44pin IDE conner hd pulled out of my Luddite for $20 USD if you wish for your Z80 project. Remember this is original stuff not 2nd hand. 0 Error. > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:06:10 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <199803042104.AA07638@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > <> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80, > > I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable > from what I gather. I think TI-85's are still sold in stores, are they not? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 4 17:15:36 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer Message-ID: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1206 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/f4112378/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:17:32 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199803042309.SAA22691@mail.cgocable.net> > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in > > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing > > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty > > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. > > These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also > used the Apple socket type joystick. Oh really? That is weird. :) I used to have *3* MBC 555 w/o HDC, just basic 2 180K drives and maxed out one or two to 256k and played with them until it blew up. Do you have more info about these MBC 555's and I'm bit puzzled by everyone's comments about quality, Sanyo made those boxes that IBM put to shame in quality overall in their PC and XT boxes. The power supplies is oh goody old fashioned linear type not switcher and all bare. The fan is ball bearing type and very SILENT, I still have this fan. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:09:33 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no <...> > A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked > if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system, > but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in. Ask him if he's got the rest of the system to go with it. > Is it treasure or trash? Treasure, of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 12:56:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803041444.AA10912@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 4, 98 09:44:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/75b2414b/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 4 17:20:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <9803042207.AA32737@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13337093180.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TU80 is a rebadged...] So then why can't I just plug any Pertec Formatted drive into a TU80 controller? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 17:28:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <13337093180.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 4, 98 03:20:57 pm Message-ID: <9803042328.AA30223@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/62da9deb/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 4 17:34:11 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer In-Reply-To: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I've spotted an ALTOS computer at WeirdStuff today. At first I thought > it was a disk drive only, but it appears to be the whole computer. > I remember seeing lots and lots of ALTOS ads and info in my old BYTE > collection (sadly, 3000 miles away from me right now), so I'm guessing > it's not all that rare of a beast. The front is black and says only > "ALTOS", and the case is metal with a faux wood-grain. (mmmm, how 70's!) I've got two. But I'd say they are at least uncommon. > It looks like your standard desktop late-70's-early-80's vintage S100 type > computer, about IMSAI-sized. Should I pick it up? It's $12.50, seems > like a rip-off to me :) Although it does have two manuals (!) with it. > A rare find in themselves, probably. Good price. Grab it. > Although I do have an IMSAI 8080 in Connecticut (argh... again, 3000 > miles away :) my experience with S100 is very, very slim. I'm a bid > DEC fan kinda-guy, so I'll need all the help I can get :) I don't think the Altos has an S-100 bus. In fact I'm almost sure of it. Ask them if its ok for you to open it up and check before you buy it. At any rate, at $12.50 its definitely a good deal. Sounds like WeirdStuff is back in the game. They stopped putting really good stuff up for sale for a period of time there. I was talking to someone at Sunday's ham fest about WS and they said that they now have a back room where they sell everything as-is. I'll have to start checking them out. BTW, is that Symbolics LISP machine still there or is it long gone? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Mar 4 17:28:18 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> References: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: >At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >>> >clone? >> >>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix > > Ward, > > Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week >and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? More precisely, it could run either AND both. To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, but not in the AT-compatible way. Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, very nicely. The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is descended from SImultask. <<>> From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304082133.45bfab88@intellistar.net> References: <199803040425.UAA05327@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00182@mail.cgocable.net> > At 08:25 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Joe wrote: > >> However they are compatable at the DOS level. > > > >Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and > >150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct > >hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running > >across both, as well as the IBM PC. This way, it's certain that gives you VERY POOR performacne and as other guys have said, most s/w are done by talking directly to low level hardware either to bios or direct to certain chips for performance reasons. Zenith and good xt clones based on any good AMI, Phoenix and Award at this time passes this. 6300 no way and total pain to work on this and too few where I'm in this area. Curious: What was that type of brand and models of those hard drives that failed and why using hard cards? I thought you can reuse those original controller and use better hard drive in place of orignals? Jason D. > > > > Or at least they're supposed to. But the AT&T is compatable enough that > it will run IBM DOS, that's a lot more than many of the machines of that > age will do. The AT&T and Zeniths are the most compatable machines that I > know of for that time period. AFAIK the AT&T and Zentih are both > compatable at the BIOS level as well as the DOS level. > > Joe > > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980304105014.5377a868@intellistar.net> References: <34FD1017.2F377F83@crl.com> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00193@mail.cgocable.net> > At 12:25 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Is that what DTC stands for? As in SCSI controllers... I can't > >remember. > > > > Probably, I've seen lots of their cards. I have a couple here somewhere. > They also made controllers for non-SCSI drives but I don't remember if > they were MFM, RLL, or IDE. DTC did everything but I was not exactly happy with their design of setup and quality. I recall I can't disable the FDC. I have 2 MFM and RLL full length 1:1 AT with FDC controllers. One time, DTC card simply died and impossible to fix when I had bunch of them. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 4 12:46:12 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Dick Smith Wizzard In-Reply-To: <016801bd476e$8a21fda0$31f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803042337.SAA00189@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a > Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL... > > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html > > My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to > absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module. > > Cheers > A > > PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when > sending to the list? Dick Smith is reselling one of my favorite tool called ESR Meter to check out the health state of the capacitors cleverly designed by Bob Parker based on the Z86 microcontroller and one IC cost appox $40 US. But I have a nitpick about Dick Smith; their payment policy leaves to be much desired. I wound up getting one from another canadian guy who got about 10 of them and after on 'net for plea. :) The regular old trick with analog meter or capacitance meter miss sick caps but the ESR meter did catch those baddies. ESR is vital in switching and rapid responses where hi-frequency circuits is used. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Mar 4 19:51:45 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980304175145.00930100@mail.wfi-inc.com> Hi Sam, Is this the circa 1980 Dos-ish machine from Canada? I'd be interested....is it yours? I live just north of Orange County (Glendora) and I could go pick it up. Thanks, Aaron BTW, no pressure on that ATR8000, but did you trade it away? I'm only asking again because there was a rumour of one on ebay that I'll bid on if so.... At 09:34 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000? > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:19:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 In-Reply-To: <199803042052.AA27052@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 4, 98 03:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1151 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/de8f0229/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:12:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Old CPU In-Reply-To: <199803042004.UAA12062@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 4, 98 08:04:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/71847579/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 4 16:30:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:31 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <033e01bd47b2$eda4e740$3cf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 08:17:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2009 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/87256006/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 4 18:53:49 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> >> Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A > >The first commercial EPROM's. 256 * 8. Very likely suffering >from some form of bit rot... If >they don't have opaque stickers over the quartz windows. put stickers on *right >now*! OK, they already had stickers on them. I guess I should get these copied. >Looking at the picture, there are 8 EPROM sockets with only 4 of them >filled. Right? And what's the part number on the 40-pin DIP near >where the power harness is attached? It looks a bit incongruous compared >to the other ceramic packages on the board. Are those 10-turn >trimpots to the left of that 40-pin DIP? Yes, 8 sockets... 4 filled. The 40 pin DIP at the front is AY-5-1013 / 7502 What's a trimpot?!! I can guess. They're marked Helitrim Cw12 and have a tiny screw at the top. >Where do the three ribbon cables from the CPU board going to? I assume at >least one goes to the front panel - I'd guess the middle one. The cables go to, from left to right... 1) a male 25 pin connector on the back of the chassis 2) to a board mounted behind the control panel - full of interesting small white chips labeled Beckman 3) This is a bit tricky; a bit of this one goes to the control panel, and another bit of it to a connector on the back (25 pin) with a sticker "TTY" beneath it. 4) a female 25 pin connector just above the male one Datanumerics DL8A can be seen at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 19:05:45 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 11:53:49 am Message-ID: <9803050105.AA00742@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/3db13580/attachment.ksh From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 20:08:55 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305120855.00af6490@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:16 AM 04-03-98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: ^^^^^^^^ >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. They were marketed very strongly in Australia as office computer systems. My fading memory seems to recall that they were sold by Dick Smith (the Australian version of Tandy/Radio Shack). I convinced my father to purchase one to act as a word processor in the mid to late 70s (I think). Neat system for the time although for me it wasn't a real computer as it didn't have a front panel (admits to DECsystem-10 fetishes here :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 3 20:12:26 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography? Message-ID: <199803050110.LAA14071@arthur.merlin.net.au> >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. They aren't common here, but in Adelaide (South Australia) we still have a Sorcerer's User Group running. I suspect that it is entirely social, but it is there. Because Dick Smith imported them so early, it was one of (if not the) first complete microcomputer systems available here, and even then Dick Smith had a fairly large chain of stores. This gave it a major advantage over its rivals (aside from the fact that it is a pretty good system in teh first place). I also know someone who took one with him when he went to the Antartic for 12 months. :) Dick Smith, as I believe Andrew mentioned, sold a number of computers here. The Sorcerer was sold as a Sorcerer, but they also sold the TRS-80 clone he mentioned (the System 80), two Laser computers (the Dick Smith VZ-200 and VZ-300), the Creativision (the Dick Smith Wizzard), a kit computer (the Super 80), and an Apple II clone (the Dick Smith Cat). I was told the System 80 was a rebadged Laser, but I don't remember if they made TRS-80 clones, and can't find any evidence to prove that the System 80 wasn't DSE's own system. The Super 80 I believe was actually theirs, but I don't have one to check, and the Cat I assume was a rebadged clone - I have a lead on one, but I have to go collect it. :) The VZs and Wizzard were simply rebadged. After a while they just started importing PC clones like everone else. I do remember they had the one luggable, which I imagine was CP/M based, but I'd have to do some research to find out who's it was. Adam. From marvin at rain.org Wed Mar 4 19:07:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: Message-ID: <34FDFACD.628F8217@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of > California > > (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older > Tektronix > > Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector > Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two Hi Sam, Vector Graphic was not manufactured in Santa Barbara. As I recall, it was manufactured in either Westlake Village or Thousand Oaks. From red at bears.org Wed Mar 4 19:08:33 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed some important attributions. ok r. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 20:16:39 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC TU80 tape drive In-Reply-To: <01bd47b8$52c775c0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305121639.00a77d50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 01:56 PM 04-03-98 -0800, Jack Peacock wrote: >I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no >docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came >with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape >drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600 >Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI >adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha? A TU80 is 1600bpi only and is (from a rusty memory) 25/75ips (25ips in normal mode and 75ips in streaming mode). Should work fine in a uVAX-II or -III and will be supported under VMS 5,6,7,... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 4 19:31:21 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980304105350.5377773e@intellistar.net> <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980304193121.006c7024@pop3.concentric.net> The box says UNIX PC on the front panel and a model 7300. The 600's were dos machines as you stated. John At 06:28 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: >>At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >>>> >clone? >>> >>>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix >> >> Ward, >> >> Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week >>and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? > >More precisely, it could run either AND both. > >To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, >but not in the AT-compatible way. > >Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix >install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, >very nicely. > >The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is >descended from SImultask. > ><<>> > > > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 4 20:11:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards Message-ID: <01bd47dc$0933aa40$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II, all dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation for DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards work, and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors, and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mouse cable. Does anyone know if it can run some PC type monitor? VGA, MDA, CGA, multisynch VGA? I don't have any info on the connector pinouts, or the types of monitors it supports. Is it mono only or does it support color too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600? Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V7)? I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for license transfers. Thanx for any info you might have, Jack Peacock From altair8800 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 4 20:12:51 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <19980305021251.18812.qmail@hotmail.com> Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A and the 8800B differ? I would really like to know about all the differences in the three. Thanks very much, BOB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Mar 4 21:18:11 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <9803042238.AA32182@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <19980304222929.5033.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:38 PM 04-03-98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: >As a nuclear physicist, I find very little need for a hand calculator. >Just about all the math I need to do falls into one of two categories: > >1. Can be done on the blackboard. > >2. Needs a supercomputer to solve. Shouldn't that read "needs next year's supercomputer to solve" :-) Personally I miss my HP25. I've still got it but the battery has died and HP say that it's not economical to fix (ie cheaper to buy this year's model). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 20:21:28 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20 Message-ID: <199803050221.AA05593@world.std.com> Hi Andrew! I have a lead for you - Acorn BBC books and software for sale in Vic, for $5. phone (03) 9596-6454. Also, if you are intersted, I know of three computers for sale which may interest you. In Vic there is an Amstrad PCW 8512 - you probably know them, but they are word processors with CP/M compatability, reasonably common but they can be hard to come by. And in Adelaide there are two - a faulty Apple Lisa 2/10 (bad HD, possibly repairable) for $150, and a HP 9835 desktop computer, with 9" drive, software and connectors for $50. Any of these interest you? If you want the Lisa I'll have to get it soon, but I do have the original OS somewhere which I can copy off for you, and unprotect at least the system disk - however I can't do so (yet) with the apps. No rush with the HP, though. Adam. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Mar 4 20:14:48 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD540128B1CB@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> There's a chart at the bottom of the page at: http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Wood [SMTP:altair8800@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:13 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? > > Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A > and the 8800B differ? > I would really like to know about all the differences > in the three. > > Thanks very much, > > BOB > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From danjo at xnet.com Wed Mar 4 20:36:27 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Wanting to sell... (fwd) Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 05:26:24 -0500 From: shewless@bestweb.net To: danjo@xnet.com Subject: Wanting to sell... I am wanting to sell a Color Computer 2. I have the basic unit, books to it, the cassette player, the 5 1/4 floppy drive, the dot matrix printer and all cables in great conditon. Please email me if you or anyone you know would like to purchase it. Thanks, Ron Roberts --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BC From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 3 21:40:20 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: BBC software Message-ID: <199803050238.NAA22395@arthur.merlin.net.au> Sorry - I was sure the message I was replying to was not from the list, and forgot to check. :( From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 4 20:39:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Mar 5, 98 01:18:11 pm Message-ID: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 766 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980304/62977c68/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 4 21:01:22 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Vector 3 References: <3.0.1.16.19980304155349.48df2ad0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34FE1582.F7B42EF3@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > >This one's on it's way back home soon, to the Anaheim area. I don't have the > room for > >it and I found a home for it back in sunny California. > > Hi Russ, > > FWIW I went back to the place where I found the original Vector disk and > searched throught their pile of disks and came up with about 15 more hard > sectored disks. At least two of them are originals. I'll forward the info to the machine's new "Daddy" out in California. I'm sure he'll be glad to know about this. Thanks much Joe. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 4 21:05:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? Message-ID: <199803050305.AA09239@world.std.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305131811.00af8c50@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304225053.43379890@intellistar.net> At 06:39 PM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Personally I miss my HP25. I've still got it but the battery has died and >> HP say that it's not economical to fix (ie cheaper to buy this year's model). > >The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >Tim. > Tim, I have a battery spot welder and repair HP batteries (and calculators), contact me directly if you're interested in getting it fixed. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 23:12:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: References: <9802048890.AA889062005@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304231218.4cff7524@intellistar.net> At 07:48 PM 3/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >> computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer >> science even though they had no-one to teach it. > >You were lucky. I was _taught_ computer studies at school, and I failed >the exams! (That was _after_ I'd built my first homebrew Z80 computer BTW) > >> sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. >> I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my > >I wonder if there's a significant overlap between people interested in >old computers and people interested in other forms of old machinery? I think we're all tinkerer's at heart. I build RC airplanes, restore old cars, and have a building full of machine tools. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 4 23:27:36 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <199803042309.SAA22691@mail.cgocable.net> References: <34FD8F30.C282D891@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980304232736.4cffe580@intellistar.net> At 06:17 PM 3/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >> Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> > >> > This is indeed for the Apple. It connects to a socket inside the case in >> > the upper-righthand area of the motherboard (with the keyboard facing >> > you). It is probably the highest (or one of the highest) quailty >> > joysticks ever to be made for the Apple. A true classic. >> >> These could also be used on the Sanyo MBC-55x series PC "compatible" as it also >> used the Apple socket type joystick. > >Oh really? That is weird. :) I used to have *3* MBC 555 w/o HDC, >just basic 2 180K drives and maxed out one or two to 256k and played >with them until it blew up. Do you have more info about these MBC >555's and I'm bit puzzled by everyone's comments about quality, Sanyo >made those boxes that IBM put to shame in quality overall in their PC >and XT boxes. > >The power supplies is oh goody old fashioned linear type not switcher >and all bare. The fan is ball bearing type and very SILENT, I still >have this fan. The power suppply was also so weak that it died if you stuck a 8087 in the machine. I used to have to unplug one of my floppy drives in order to use the 8087. Joe From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 4 23:21:12 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: ALTOS computer In-Reply-To: <199803042315.PAA31058@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > Howdy folks, > > I've spotted an ALTOS computer at WeirdStuff today. At first I thought > it was a disk drive only, but it appears to be the whole computer. > > Could someone help me identify it? I think I'll swing by and buy it > tomorrow to make sure it doesn't disappear, but right now I'm working > from memory. > > I remember seeing lots and lots of ALTOS ads and info in my old BYTE > collection (sadly, 3000 miles away from me right now), so I'm guessing > it's not all that rare of a beast. The front is black and says only > "ALTOS", and the case is metal with a faux wood-grain. (mmmm, how 70's!) > > There is one 8" floppy drive on the left-hand side of the box, one push > button (reset?), and one flat-toggle switch (Must be power). That's > it. > > It looks like your standard desktop late-70's-early-80's vintage S100 type > computer, about IMSAI-sized. Should I pick it up? It's $12.50, seems > like a rip-off to me :) Although it does have two manuals (!) with it. > A rare find in themselves, probably. The ALTOS is not an S-100 machine. But, more nearly a single board computer. I would assume that the one you describe is an 8000-? version from your description. They are Z-80 based and usually ran MP/M. - don > Although I do have an IMSAI 8080 in Connecticut (argh... again, 3000 > miles away :) my experience with S100 is very, very slim. I'm a bid > DEC fan kinda-guy, so I'll need all the help I can get :) > > -Seth > > -Seth > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 00:01:58 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B?? In-Reply-To: <19980305021251.18812.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A > and the 8800B differ? > I would really like to know about all the differences > in the three. Short form: (more or less) The 8800 was the original machine from MITS. Standard config was a 4 slot backplane, a rather small capacity power supply, front panel, 2mHz 8080 CPU card, and depending on when you bought it either no memory, or with a 256 byte (expandable to 1k) static memory card. No I/O other than the switches and lights on the front panel. ...and painfully small toggles on the front panel switches. And of course the 80 or so individual wires that connected the front panel to the backplane. (let's not get nitpicky... I'm just listing the base configs as I recall them. Pictures, notes, and price list images on my web pages) The 8800a was a slightly uprated version of the 8800. Same front panel and CPU card, a slightly higher capacity power supply, and longer flattened toggles on the front panel switches. (minor cosmetic changes to logo plate) The 8800b was the machine reworked for more serious (read that: business) purposes. A very much higher capacity power supply (which was made available briefly as a retrofit for the 8800/8800a systems), 18 slot backplane, a new CPU card (still a 2mHz 8080) and front panel interface board which now connected to the display (front) panel with a pair of ribbon cables, and additional functions on the front panel allowing the operator to load and display the contents of the CPUs accumulator on the front panel, do direct I/O to/from a port on the front panel, and added the option to make the data lights on the panel operate in one of three modes. 1) standard - unlatched data bus indication 2) port 377 - latched display of output to port 377 (FF if you prefer) 3) I/O - latched display of I/O to/from any port Complete new cosmetic layout of front panel. And... (to round it all out) The 8800b Turnkey. Same as 8800b but without the display (front panel) controls and lights. Front panel interface card replaced by the "turnkey" board which held a boot loader EPROM. Front panel controls reduced to run/stop switch, reset/clear switch, and a keyswitch for power. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Mar 5 01:05:49 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980304230549.00e4a800@mail.jps.net> Yes, I'm back on JPS Internet! So far, so good. Still looking for a replacement power supply OR maintenance print sets (read: schematics) for a VaxSERVER 3100 (NOT A VAXSTATION -- VAXServer -- there is a difference) so I can fix the power supply. Other than that, doing pretty good. 'The Traveling Technoid' will also be moving this month to its new home. There may be a few days where it is inaccessible. I'll post the new location here and on Infoseek. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 5 03:24:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: <34FDA8B6.F6B7A649@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them > started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out > what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. > Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. Ouch. As former editor of some San Diego Sanyo MBC newsletter who's name escapes me, I must protest. I thought the Sanyo keyboard was much better than the klicky IBM keyboard, and it had that one key that lights up. Plus the silver box was very cool looking in a cheap stereo kind of way. It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 08:08:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? References: Message-ID: <34FEB1C3.8157227B@bbtel.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Well they called it the "Silver Box" but most of us that ownedd them > > started to call them the "Silver Junk Box" after we really found out > > what clunkers they were. They made a PCJr look to be 100% compatible. > > Sanyo didn't even put an ALT key on it. > > Ouch. As former editor of some San Diego Sanyo MBC newsletter who's name > escapes me, I must protest. I thought the Sanyo keyboard was much better > than the klicky IBM keyboard, and it had that one key that lights up. > Plus the silver box was very cool looking in a cheap stereo kind of way. It's all in what you like I guess, hence people search forever for parts for the Rambler they own...The newsletter is still out - Sanyo PC Hacker's Newsletter - and it never says a thing about the Sanyo anything. I don't know why Victor Frank even publishes it anymore. The "First Sanyo Opus BBS" is still online in Pennsylvania too and it has just a few 55x specific files on it, otherwise they're invisible. Soft Sector magazine is gone but Falsoft Publishing is still very alive out this way in the Louisville area. They nearly went under with the demise of the magazine, but only due to the way they did the subscribers. They decided overnight to dump the magazine which was the bible of the 55x machines and suddenly Sanyo owners were getting a Tandy 1000 series support publication. I remember myself and thousands of other subscribers calling Falsoft and demanding a refund of the remaining prepaid subscription. We got them too. > It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other > PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to > work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the > source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo > as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. Like the first thing you had to do was to modify the power supply to keep it from tripping under the load of two floppies and the optional CGA video card/memory. Then hacking the joystick port to bring the Apple port out to the back so you could use an IBM 15 pin sub-d. Then dealing with the 8251 UART instead of the 8250 for the optional and very expensive serial port...and the list goes on. I did learn a lot with the machine though. By seeing what the IBM did and trying to get the "box" to do that taught me that I too needed to sell mine as quick as possible. I remember seeing articles in the SPCH newsletter with your name in the past. I don't remember specific things but that's good as if I did it would mean that I strongly disagreed with the article or was overly impressed. Mostly disagreed with were the ones I remember. Take care Doug. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 08:18:58 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards installed. The screen appears as such: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The prompt > is at the beginning of the second line, and this pattern is repeated in all 16 rows, save the second where the prompt appears. The upper case light and local light are on, the shift lock light is off. The keyboard doesn't respond except for the - key which is to the left of * on the numeric keypad section on the right. Next, I disconnected the keyboard cable (after powering down for a minute or so) and get the exact same result as above, less the upper case and local lights on of course. Finally (after powering off) I removed the SOLOS prom board and of course don't get the prompt > but get a new video display repeated from top to bottom of an equal sign '=' followed by a lightning bolt, this pattern repeats = then lightning bolt (I cannot reproduce the symbol) endlessly from top to bottom. I also tried a different RG62 video cable in all tests and get the same results. Thanks again for your help- Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com From jthiemann at castleton.com Thu Mar 5 08:27:11 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED2@dino.castleton.com> I think I have that card set (but not the roms - but I do have a spare ka630 board) with full instructions. I can dig up specifics over the weekend, when I'm back in Montreal. My uVaxII does have the ability to act as an X client - I tried it, I have the 3 Tk50 Ultrix distribution set (but who wants that if you can have NetBSD?) I think it can drive the GPX cards too, but have never seen it do so myself - I don't have a monitor to hook up to it. If anyone wants the cards (the GPX and the spare ka630), they're up for grabs - either for sale or trade since I'm not doing much with the VAX (I like my Sparc better) -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: March 4, 1998 22:06 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DEC GPX II Q-Bus boards > > II, > workstation f > boards wo > monitors > kbd/mou > > I have no clue on the rom as the microvax-II already could run > decwindows. > DECwindows is a device and services under VMS. I would not mess with > that > rom unless you fully identfy it and its use. > > The monitors conformed to the boards not the other way round the cable > carried keyboard data mouse and RGB video for the monitor. > > monitors were vr260, 290, 320. > > > Yes. > > current (V > days > for > > Most all from v4.2 and later. V5.5 would work well. FYI there is a > free > license available for hobby use to US decus members. > > > Allison From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 06:15:08 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Picked up another truckload! Take a look? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , Doug Yowza writes >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: >It was a welcome challenge trying to get the Sanyo to do things the other >PC's could do. And it was pretty hackable. I remember porting KERMIT to >work with the non-standard serial ports (8251?) after Sanyo sent me the >source of their BIOS.... OK, I also remember running away from the Sanyo >as fast as I could once the cheap clones from Taiwan got off the boat. I once had a commission from a QC (=Queen's Counsel) to try to work out why the nice daisy-wheel printer he had bought was messing up the printout from Wordstar running on his Sanyo. After much messing around with cables, printer settings and everything else, we found that the Sanyo BIOS had a 60s or so timeout on the serial transmit, and when it timed out it would just drop the character and return, which is a little bit embarrassing when you're printing out high-powered legal documents. The first fix was to disable the 16k buffer in the printer so that it couldn't sit there for minutes at a time draining the buffer down to the point at which it turned DTR back on, but a friend at Sanyo patched the BIOS to make the timeout much longer. After that everyone was happy, except perhaps whoever was being sued by the QC to pay my bill. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From jthiemann at castleton.com Thu Mar 5 08:43:57 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED3@dino.castleton.com> While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage as the computers discussed here? I have a Korg Poly-800, Yamaha DX-7II, 2 FB-01's, CS-01, a Sequential SixTrack, 360 Systems MidiBass, and a homebrew MIDI interface to hook some of this to my Amiga. I have grandiose plans (ok, ok, not _so_ grandiose, but everything is relative these days...) to rip the 6581 out of my C64 (or better yet, find an old otherwise nonfunctional C64 and rip the 6581 out of there) and hook it up to a 68HC11 SBC I designed a few years back (the company I used to work for is still using and occasionally producing these) and controlling it (the 6581, that is) via MIDI as a cheap-o (and physically small) analog synth. (Cause let's face it, that's what the 6581 is...) BTW Any of you UK guys have collections of the old E&MM magazine? I'm missing 1 or 2 issues in the 84 (83?) season... -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. > -----Original Message----- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) [SMTP:red@bears.org] > Sent: March 4, 1998 20:09 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Demography > > > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up > photography. > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed > some > important attributions. > > ok > r. From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 09:59:08 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235ED3@dino.castleton.com> Message-ID: > While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who > else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage > as the computers discussed here? I have some old analog stuff : Minimoog D and an ARP Oddessy (hamfest special - do not ask about the price). Good for making noise. I also have miles of papertape to run on a PDP-8/S so the interference creates tunes. Dumb, but fun. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 10:17:19 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting > this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't > appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. > All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards > installed. > > The screen appears as such: > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. (wedged, dead, etc...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Thu Mar 5 10:30:56 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sun 2/120 (clone) available in the UK Message-ID: <01bd4854$12837620$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> >I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I >don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard, >mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards Do you still have it? Is it free :-) If yes to the above would collection be possible at the weekend if I could arrange it? Regards Pete From prp at hf.intel.com Thu Mar 5 10:47:34 1998 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography References: <199803050802.AAA03469@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography. > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed some > important attributions. > and another bassoon player, long ago. I'm 43, started playing with computers before high school. That was less common then, though maybe not for the folks on this list. My dad had a "portable" Teletype model 33 (I have it now) with an acoustic coupler modem. He had accounts on GE timesharing (BASIC) and the nearby University of Wisconsin Burroughs B5500 (I used WIPL, a little like FOCAL.) I got a BS in EE and MS in Computer Science at UW, where I ran PDP-11's etc. in the CS lab. Have mostly worked at Intel in Portland since then. No time for more bio now, but there is some more info on how I started collecting on my web site. From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 11:08:51 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Sol-20 revisited Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 11:41 AM On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks to all for the hints, help and tips on the problem of getting > this Sol-20 running. I fired this up last night but the screen didn't > appear as I remember it last time> I must be losing my memory. > All testing was done with the Sol-20 barebone, no S-100 add-on cards > installed. > > The screen appears as such: > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. (wedged, dead, etc...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.114131.1767.30343; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 11:41:32 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA22176; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:28 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA38986 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:20 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (0@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA29419 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:20 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (1566@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01383 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: James Willing To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 11:25:24 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> Message-ID: Well, lets see. I am 28 or so, living now in Carmel, NY (about fifty miles north of NYC), and like old things in general. Mostly. I am employed by one of the ISPs (originally the first ISP - the NSF) as an engineer. As you can probably tell by now, I tend to pick up the scraps of the network. I originally collected old radios. I had a small collection of consumer sets, some working, but dropped the hobby when two others came into my life - computers and old industrial/military electronics. The latter is simply from my consumer radio collecting days. The computers, however, probably started with the Apple II, like so many other kids in grade school. The first computer I ran into is my old DEC PDP-8/S, purchased "thru" a hamfest back in 1986. I was eyeing someone's PDP-11 boards (I was already a hamfest regular), and a man approached me with an offer I could not refuse - for $5, I could have a real, six-foot tall computer. I still have the machine. After that, I started getting others - mostly PeeCee and small mini machines. Sometimes they were pulled from dumpsters, other times they were purchased for a song. Right now, the collection consists of a PDP-8/S, PDP-8/E, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/34, Interdata 14, IBM S/1, IBM 5100, Sun 3/50, 3/60, 3/280 and 4/280, SPARCstation 370, SGI Iris 2500T, IBM RS/6000/T3B, and HP 2100A. Some machines work, some need work. There are parts of many others, but I am not counting those. I also have a bunch of ancient Sphere/SWTPC/Exorsisor stuff that I need to get rid of (I have no interest in it). Most of it will migrate to RCS/RI (so Allison can play with it). In addition to old computers, I collect old Naval radios and radar sets from the 1930s and 40s, as well as vaccuum tubes. At this point, I do not know which collection takes up more mass, as some of the shipboard radio transmitters are six foot monsters as well. Look at some of the old serials from the 1950s - they tend to show up as props in monster labs. And I do not play bassoon. I also voluteer time as part of the restoration crew on Battleship Massachusetts - a place with _real_ computers. Sorry guys, but engineering and craftsmanshipwise (is that a word?), the mechanical fire control computers are far more impressive than any of the digital stuff. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 11:52:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <199803051752.AA06647@world.std.com> < Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? < Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to < cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? < < Marty If it's a bad video ram swap it with the one next to it, if the pattern changes the ram is fried (I have tons of them). If the pattern doesn't change is likely a bad 74ls157 or 8097(74ls367). the test for a bad '157 or 8097 is to swap it with another on the board and see if the symptom changes. The fact that you've seen different patterns says the video rom is ok. Try popping out and reinstalling all the socketed parts and boards. You may have a crusty connection. Allison From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 11:59:28 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> William, I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. Thanks- Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Demography Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 12:38 PM Well, lets see. I am 28 or so, living now in Carmel, NY (about fifty miles north of NYC), and like old things in general. Mostly. I am employed by one of the ISPs (originally the first ISP - the NSF) as an engineer. As you can probably tell by now, I tend to pick up the scraps of the network. I originally collected old radios. I had a small collection of consumer sets, some working, but dropped the hobby when two others came into my life - computers and old industrial/military electronics. The latter is simply from my consumer radio collecting days. The computers, however, probably started with the Apple II, like so many other kids in grade school. The first computer I ran into is my old DEC PDP-8/S, purchased "thru" a hamfest back in 1986. I was eyeing someone's PDP-11 boards (I was already a hamfest regular), and a man approached me with an offer I could not refuse - for $5, I could have a real, six-foot tall computer. I still have the machine. After that, I started getting others - mostly PeeCee and small mini machines. Sometimes they were pulled from dumpsters, other times they were purchased for a song. Right now, the collection consists of a PDP-8/S, PDP-8/E, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/34, Interdata 14, IBM S/1, IBM 5100, Sun 3/50, 3/60, 3/280 and 4/280, SPARCstation 370, SGI Iris 2500T, IBM RS/6000/T3B, and HP 2100A. Some machines work, some need work. There are parts of many others, but I am not counting those. I also have a bunch of ancient Sphere/SWTPC/Exorsisor stuff that I need to get rid of (I have no interest in it). Most of it will migrate to RCS/RI (so Allison can play with it). In addition to old computers, I collect old Naval radios and radar sets from the 1930s and 40s, as well as vaccuum tubes. At this point, I do not know which collection takes up more mass, as some of the shipboard radio transmitters are six foot monsters as well. Look at some of the old serials from the 1950s - they tend to show up as props in monster labs. And I do not play bassoon. I also voluteer time as part of the restoration crew on Battleship Massachusetts - a place with _real_ computers. Sorry guys, but engineering and craftsmanshipwise (is that a word?), the mechanical fire control computers are far more impressive than any of the digital stuff. William Donzelli william@ans.net ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.123803.1767.30360; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:38:04 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA35718; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:27:16 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA39600 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:25:40 -0800 Received: from il1.nyp.ans.net (il1.nyp.ans.net [147.225.190.5]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id JAA12370 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:25:25 -0800 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net id AA03664 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for classiccmp@u.washington.edu); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:25:24 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Donzelli To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Demography In-Reply-To: <34FED726.836C598@hf.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 11:58:35 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? > Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to > cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? 2102, 1k x 1bit static RAM. Still a production part. Available thru NTE and various other sources. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 5 12:16:59 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: RSTS systat. Here's the proof! It works! Message-ID: <13337299989.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Just a clip from the lineprinter: Ready sy RSTS V8.0-07 GALAXIA status at 04-Mar-98 03:06 PM Up: 5:07 Job Who Where What Size State Run-Time Pri/RB RTS 1 [SELF] Det ERRCPY 5/32K SR 1:47.7 0/6 BAS2F 2 [SELF] KB0 SYSTAT 13/32K RN Lck 1.3 -8/6 BAS2F Busy Devices: None [clip...] I've deleted most of the old accounts - The disk was at 8% free when I got it, now it's at 88% free... The accounts remaining look like they have system stuff in them, or are refrenced in the start-up files. I'm backing them up to DECtapes, then deleting them to see what happens. If it runs a month without the files on the tape, I wipe the tape. (Write nulls over it) I'm moving the 44 to school, there I'm going to attach it to the nameserver (Linux) and kludge up something interesting so that people can telnet to the RSTS without having to have accounts on the Linux box. Right now I'm working out a plan with the 23+. The move is scheduled for Monday. Fun! I get to lug the RA81 up a flight of stairs! :) Oh, and does removing the account (With REACT) kill the directory by NULLing over it, or do I have to go do something else to make sure they're gone? I did see a few accounting-type things in the [5x,*] area, so I killed them all sight-unseen. The system runs OK now... Kermit is still here, I assume I can keep that... OPSER and the batch stuff are missing, and the OS source has been removed, but if Kermit works I may be able to go find some nice person with 8.0-07 and get the files needed. I renamed the machine GALAXIA, and made a copy of the old Monitor .SIL so I can kill those too. Basically now, without some real digging, you can't tell where the machine came from. ------- From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Mar 5 12:27:20 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <13337299989.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about doing it. Well? ____________________________________________ - John Higginbotham - higginbo@netpath.net - - Webmaster - http://www.pntprinting.com - - Designer - http://limbo.netpath.net - - Follower of Torvalds - From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 12:46:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > doing it. Well? Frank Larosa of Searchlight has a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 tied to the net as a Telnet server (by way of his 486 or Pentium) at http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm Just click on the photo or use the telnet address listed on his page. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Mar 4 16:45:36 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are really quick. US$20 each, IIRC manney@lrbcg.com "Chicken Little was right!" From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Mar 5 12:51:40 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305135140.007f0bd0@netpath.net> At 05:45 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are >really quick. US$20 each, IIRC Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling the 286-386, 386-486 chips at around $100 each, but you can still pick them up cheap from stock overruns from places like Surplus Direct. ____________________________________________ - John Higginbotham - higginbo@netpath.net - - Webmaster - http://www.pntprinting.com - - Designer - http://limbo.netpath.net - - Follower of Torvalds - From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Mar 5 12:59:41 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards Message-ID: <199803051901.OAA15684@portal.dx.net> Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are really quick. US$20 each, IIRC manney@lrbcg.com "Chicken Little was right!" > > Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean > > any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some > > systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2 > > 286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something > > 32-bit > > For various reasons, mostly related to the '100% documented PC', I have a > little kludge-board in an original AT motherboard in this PC. It's called > (IIRC) a 'Make-It 486', and contains a TI 486-a-like, the floating point > copro, and a couple of PLD chips. > > I've also got a similar 386 board that I found at a radio rally. It's > labelled 'Hyper386-SX 50/60/AT'. It contains an Intel 80386SX-16 + 3 > PAL-like things. From the name, I'd assume it would work in a PS/2 model > 50 or model 60. > > I've no idea where you'd find one, but they certainly exist. > > -tony From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 13:21:32 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: > I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. RCS/RI will be getting the bulk of it. That way, quite a few of us can enjoy it at once. The extras (I have three Spheres, for example) are being held for someone in hopes that a trade comes up. If it does not, the extras will be offered on the list. William Donzelli william@ans.net From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Mar 5 13:38:08 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/fc8ac9e9/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Thu Mar 5 13:27:09 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:32 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited References: <1998Mar05.120729.1767.86107@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <34FEFC8D.3254@gamewood.net> Marty wrote: > > Thanks Jim. Have you replaced the video ram in the Sol-20 before? > Also, do you know if parts are still available or will I have to > cannibalize from a similar vintage pieces part? > > Marty > > snip > > The '$'s indicate a single bit error in the video RAM. Bit 3 is stuck. > (wedged, dead, etc...) > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com Something else that would be worth looking for. There _MAY_ be a little piece of debris, solder, rosin, dust, etc that is providing an electrical path on one of the data lines from the video ram. Won't hurt to look with a magnifying glass. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 5 13:08:07 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... Message-ID: <34FEF817.7DF0@goldrush.com> Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) Stuff I got: - Timex/Sinclair 16k RAM unit with a few cassette programs for it. - Given to me, a COMPLETE IBM PC (read model 5150, the first IBM PC I think... (he had run this one until very recently when he got a new multi-media system...) The computer has dual floppy drives, a cassette port and everything! Computer, Monitor, Printer, (all IBM) IBM DOS and other disks and all manuals! (Wordstar, Microplan, BASIC, etc. etc.) Haven't powered this one up but the previous owner says drive A has problems, but once running he could work off of B. (if anyone is interested in it an willing to pick it up, I will pass it along, otherwise it will go with me to VFC 2.0 (Hey, Sam, wanna raffle off a COMPLETE GENUINE IBM PC?) What I passed up on... Mac Plus Some Atari Stuff (800, 520ST, ST floppy drive) Commodore 64 stuff (never a shortage there...) PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. I'm just waiting for the weather to improve one weekend, then the Flea Market I like will be going again... Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 13:36:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Mar 5, 98 11:38:08 am Message-ID: <9803051936.AA03220@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/cfc8df7b/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Thu Mar 5 13:44:46 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: > > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > > doing it. Well? RCS/RI has a VAX-11/750 on the net from time to time. William Donzelli william@ans.net From archive at navix.net Thu Mar 5 15:31:18 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... CORD Russ Blakeman wrote: > John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have connected > > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking about > > doing it. Well? > > Frank Larosa of Searchlight has a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 tied to the net as a > Telnet server (by way of his 486 or Pentium) at > http://www.searchlight.com/frank/milo.htm > > Just click on the photo or use the telnet address listed on his page. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From dlw at neosoft.com Thu Mar 5 08:44:13 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803052044.OAA15787@mailbox.neosoft.com> I bought what I was told was a TRS-80 Model 2 from a guy but when it arrived it turned out to be a Model 1. CPU and monitor only. The monitor doesn't power on at all. When I hooked up the cpu to my good Model 1 monitor I get graphic chars in place of the normal text. Otherwise the cpu unit seems ok. Any ideas on what may be wrong with the cpu or the monitor? I'm not sure I'm really interested in messing with either of these items as I have a good working Model 1. I could keep them as parts, for those parts that may be good, or if someone is really interested, I could possibly part with them. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 5 15:19:30 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <1998Mar05.161907.1767.86230@smtp.itgonline.com> Pardon my ignorance but what is RCS/RI? Retro Computing Society of Rhode Island? Regardless, is there a web address I can visit? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Demography Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/5/98 2:30 PM > I'd be interested in the Sphere, SWTPC gear, etc you don't want. RCS/RI will be getting the bulk of it. That way, quite a few of us can enjoy it at once. The extras (I have three Spheres, for example) are being held for someone in hopes that a trade comes up. If it does not, the extras will be offered on the list. William Donzelli william@ans.net ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar05.143059.1767.30390; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:31:00 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA15048; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:55 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA14458 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:42 -0800 Received: from il1.nyp.ans.net (il1.nyp.ans.net [147.225.190.5]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id LAA14269 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:21:29 -0800 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net id AA02315 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for classiccmp@u.washington.edu); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 Received: by il1.nyp.ans.net (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:21:32 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Donzelli To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.125835.1767.86119@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 15:16:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? Message-ID: <199803052116.AA16762@world.std.com> <> > Hey, does anyone have a list of classic systems that people have conn <> > to the internet? I know I've heard you guys several times talking abo <> > doing it. Well? < Message-ID: <13337333410.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [vs2k or mv-II online...] What opeating system? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:36:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.091805.1767.86032@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Mar 5, 98 09:18:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3910 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/c132712c/attachment.ksh From erd at infinet.com Thu Mar 5 15:28:25 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... In-Reply-To: <34FEF817.7DF0@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Mar 5, 98 11:08:07 am Message-ID: <199803052128.QAA06904@user2.infinet.com> > > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) > > What I passed up on... > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the item burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare A500 to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish I had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still there? -ethan ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. Started with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and SunSPARC parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny collection of 4004 CPUs and support chips. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:11:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 4, 98 06:39:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1007 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/e0842763/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:49:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <199803051752.AA06647@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 5, 98 12:52:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/c12fb7b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:03:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000c01bd47d1$29a10f80$71f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 5, 98 11:53:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/3148f2db/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Thu Mar 5 15:43:03 1998 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... Message-ID: I had a working CMB 8032, and one day a couple years ago, saw an ad in the paper "Wanted: CBM 8032". A couple in their 70's placed it. The wife is a writer, and not a computer user, and only knew how to use her CBM 8032 which was 15 years old and failing. I brought my 8032 (which I had set up in my office, after it fell from a high shelf and put a dent in the hood of my car) to them, swapped it out, swapped roms (mine had some sort of add-on board) and tore-down, cleaned, and re-assemble the keyboard for them. and off they went. I think they did have all the manuals and stuff for the computer, disk drives, and printers. alas, I don't have any PET computers anymore. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:erd@infinet.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 3:28 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... > > > > > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to > > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are > improving > > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) > > > > What I passed up on... > > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. > > Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the > item > burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare > A500 > to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish > I > had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL > controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. > > Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still > there? > > -ethan > > ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. > Started > with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and > SunSPARC > parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny > collection of > 4004 CPUs and support chips. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 14:06:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803050105.AA00742@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 4, 98 05:05:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/1ed668a3/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 16:02:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FF20E0.FB84CAF9@bbtel.com> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... Essentially the net address directs to an outdial line at the server, and when you "telnet" you are basically connecting to the telephone lines from the internet. It takes an ISP that can provide the service and a dedicated inbound line to a BBS, or in some cases I think an ISDN line full time can handle it. I've never done it but dealved into it some when considering putting a link to my BBS (when I had it running). At $155 month for a connection from the ISP, I declined. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 5 16:09:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: 486 upgrade boards References: <3.0.3.32.19980305135140.007f0bd0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34FF22B5.1E3EA4C2@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 05:45 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling 386-486 upgrade chips, which are > >really quick. US$20 each, IIRC > > Last I heard, Evergreen was still selling the 286-386, 386-486 chips at > around $100 each, but you can still pick them up cheap from stock overruns > from places like Surplus Direct. If anyone happens to have any 286-386, or 386-486 upgrades they want to sell or see a really good price on them commercially, I'd like to know. I have an NEC APC4 portable 286 that I'd love to upgrade t 386 and I have a few friends and customers looking to upgrade their PS/2's and clones for less than the hard to find IBM upgrades. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Mar 5 16:04:44 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> <34FEF314.E3D731E3@bbtel.com> <34FF19A5.B30B54E9@navix.net> Message-ID: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... > $telnet ;-) Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about others, what are you using? From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 16:10:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> OK, I've kind of settled on an approact to restoring the DL8A. I figure I'm completely unqualified to do any of this and so will rely upon advice and help from those of you who are. I think the first and most important step is to back-up the extant 1702 boot program. I've been thinking about this one (re: bit rot); would it be possible to get a disassembly of the code to see if it looks OK? It can't be too big - only 4 eproms total. Does bit rot proceed on a bit-by-bit basis, or are whole segments knocked out at a go (ie: bytes/multiples)? I presume that it will be possible to restore the boot program if there is some significant part of the eproms intact - opcodes anyway... The disassembly should give some clues as to operation of the machine, too. So, firstly I ask if anyone with a 1702 programmer who would be prepared to handle copying these 4 eproms for me to wave their hands in the air. I'll also need 4 of the 1702 eproms, so would appreciate anyone with those to also wave their hands. And finally, I'm looking for a PC based 8080A disassembler. My plan is to pull the chips and airmail them to a kind volunteer. Actually - although I don't have a lot to spend - I will be most happy to pay for the preservation (restoration?) of these data. I think its important. I do believe this machine is possibly unique; certainly rare - and worth restoring properly. I would note that the cosmetics are near flawless; this bodes well for the electronics inside, no? Cheers A From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Mar 5 16:25:11 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34ff255c.2725213@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:11:39 +0000 (GMT), you said: >> The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >> very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >> in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >> surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >> a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >All my HP20-series machines (woodstocks) have a metal spring in the >battery pack that presses the cells against the terminals in the >calculator. It will also connect a pair of normal AA cells together >without needing to spot-weld or solder them. > >You can open up the battery pack, extract the old cells and fit some new >AA NiCds in their place. Take care to get them the right way round, of >course - at least one of my packs has the polarities moulded into the >case, though. I've done that with my aged HP-21; cut the plastic battery pack open and replaced the nicads. With my HP-38, the batteries were in a metal holder and easily replaced. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 15:26:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803052044.OAA15787@mailbox.neosoft.com> from "David Williams" at Mar 5, 98 02:44:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/ef41c241/attachment.ksh From dlw at neosoft.com Thu Mar 5 08:49:11 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Mar 5, 98 01:27:20 pm Message-ID: <199803052049.OAA17233@mailbox.neosoft.com> I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm thinking about going back by and picking it up. They also had a VIC-20 with the VIC version of the floppy drive which I think I grab as I don't have one of those. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 17:45:40 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 09:10:56 am Message-ID: <9803052345.AA27125@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/a8e4653b/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Mar 5 17:47:38 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found Message-ID: <64c4094a.34ff399c@aol.com> yes, i've seen one of those funky pcjr models too. i wish i had bought it just for the curiosity factor. i dont remember what brand the expansion unit was though. my particular pcjr has another drive in an external case with its own power supply and a cable going to the unit like an apple ][ In a message dated 98-03-05 18:37:23 EST, you write: << I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm thinking about going back by and picking it up. They also had a VIC-20 with the VIC version of the floppy drive which I think I grab as I don't have one of those. >> From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 17:49:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00d201bd4891$694f3ba0$1af438cb@nostromo> >Silly question of mine: what is the machine supposed to boot >from? Oh, my terminology is wrong, I guess. I've not used a front-panel machine. I guess you'd call these roms the machine's OS? Of sorts. Well... what ARE they, then? >In the first stages of bit rot, single bits go "flaky" and will not >read reliably. So the first thing to do is read the 1702A's multiple >times and see if any are going bad in this way. Of course, be sure >to save the results of each read pass... Thanks for that suggestion. Wilco. Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 5 18:00:25 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <00d201bd4891$694f3ba0$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 10:49:56 am Message-ID: <9803060000.AA03111@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1298 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/12787ef8/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Mar 5 18:05:56 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <00fd01bd4893$a8291920$1af438cb@nostromo> >Are there any markings on the stickers covering the 1702A windows? Only numbers identifying their position. >What do you know of the history of the machine? Was it used for data >acquisition? Was it used for industrial control? Who was the previous >owner? What might they have used it for? This from the gent I bought it from.. this is ALL i know. "Hmmm.... The DL8a came in a job lot at an auction... It came with a CRDS PDP11/23 clone, A gutted Universe, a 19" monitor, several hundred kilos of RT-11 and Unix manuals, several hundred 8" disks, and some other bits and pieces.." >The EPROM's might hold bootstrap code, they might hold software that >drive some sort of device that you don't have, they might contain >a monitor, it's hard to tell. A disassembly will make that easy(ish) to determine, surely! >Have you checked out the power supply yet? This is definitely the >first priority. No, I've not checked it - having no equipment. I don't intend to supply power to it at all until I get those EPROMS copied. So I'm thinking it's actually a lower priority. I'll check the power while the eproms are away being saved. A From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 19:19:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <199803060119.AA03075@world.std.com> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 5, 98 04:00:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/ce9f8b0a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 18:50:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803052345.AA27125@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 5, 98 03:45:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/f97ad1c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 5 17:24:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 6, 98 09:10:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980305/e5773c56/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 5 19:55:51 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <34FF20E0.FB84CAF9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn wrote: > > > Just what exactly does it take to 'telnet' to a site... > > Essentially the net address directs to an outdial line at the server, > and when you "telnet" you are basically connecting to the telephone > lines from the internet. It takes an ISP that can provide the service > and a dedicated inbound line to a BBS, or in some cases I think an ISDN > line full time can handle it. I've never done it but dealved into it > some when considering putting a link to my BBS (when I had it running). > At $155 month for a connection from the ISP, I declined. Huh? Telnet is a way to connect to other hosts on the internet. For instance, you could go: telnet wco.com and get the login: prompt for the ISP I use. telnet whitehouse.gov will get you nowhere as it refuses the connection. I think Russ may have been thinking of Telenet, which was an X.25 packet switch data service that Sprint use to offer. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 5 19:57:07 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > others, what are you using? The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available for download somewhere? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Thu Mar 5 20:53:13 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Demography? In-Reply-To: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: >I'm kind of curious as to the demography of the Classic Computer >Mailing List. What are people's backgrounds, what are they doing now, >and so forth. Oh boy! Another chance to brag about my collection! :-) I'm 17, I live in Portland, Oregon, I don't have a job(that should be fixed soon, I need more computers but I don't have any money...), I might get a '70 VW Beetle for my birthday, and I have around 25-30 computers, and most of the time I can't remember them all. So here is a list: - IBM Series/1 minicomputer. 4956-K00 CPU, two 4959 expansion boxes, four 4967 hard drives, a 4963 hard drive, a 4964 8" floppy drive, a 4968 tape drive and 4969 tape drive, three 4997 racks, two 4978 terminals, a box of 8" floppies and a huge pile of manuals. I'm in the middle of converting the CPU to 110V, everything else is still wired for 220v. I plugged it into the dryer outlet before taking it apart and it seemed to work, but I couldn't get it to IPL. - Apple IIe with Color Monitor IIe(nice!), DuoDisk drive, and some Apple joystick. Came in the original box with around 60 disks and a bunch of manuals. Got it for free! In almost perfeect condition. Looks like it's been sitting in a closet for a LONG time. - Apple IIgs ROM 03, AppleColor RGB monitor(but no cord), I haven't gone to pick up the disk drive yet(I should, I got the computer in earyl January), I got it for free at the PMUG swap meet. - Laser 128(Apple IIc cone, there was a thread a while back on this list about the computer), I picked it up at a hamfest a few weeks ago for $5, which included a VTech and IIc power supply, a zenith monitor, and a Apple Monitor III. Only thing I don't like is the keyboard. - Apple Mac 512K, I have on I bought for $15, and one that I don't remember where it's from. - Apple Mac SE, got it for $1 with 4/40, the hard drive died soon after, and now has an 80MB drive that doesn't always spin up. A little bit of burn-in, but not very noticeable. Screen brightness control doesn't work. - Apple Mac IIvx 12/80/CD, got it new just before Apple stopped making it at the Computer City grand opening sale. Also got a 14" Apple monitor and StyleWriter II printer. - Apple Mac LC II, got it in trade for a 19" rack and a 486, came with 4/40, now upgraded to 8/40(found some SIMM's I thought were 256K and they ended up to be 2MB!!!), has a dead backup battery. - Apple PowerMac 6500/250 WOW! FAST! 250MHz PPC 603e chip, 48MB RAM, 3.7GB hard drive, built-in Zip drive... $2500 brand new, got an Apple 15AV monitor and MacOS 8 together for $8!!!! - Apple PowerBook Duo 270c 16/270 Nice little PowerBook. Has some wierd problem that made the speaker go dead... Works fine when in a DuoDock. - Shugart 801 8" floppy drive with nothing to do... Got it for $6 with a bunch of CP/M disks for an H/Z-89. - DEC VT-220 terminal, $2 at a hamfest, turned out to be a dead keyboard. Jumpered past a dead fuse and it works fine now... - MicroTerm Ergo 301 Funny little terminal, seems to have a power supply problem and maybe something else. VT-100 compatible, but I can't do anythign until it gets fixed. $5 at a surplus store. - IBM 3191 3270-type terminal. Kinda useless without a mainframe... Got it for free. - two leased-line 9600bps modems, virtually identical but from different companies. Got them for free. - IBM 5150 An original PC! I like the cassette port. Has a 360k floppy and 25MB hard drive, 640K RAM. Also found a 5151 monitor later. Both were free. - IBM 5160 A PC-XT! 640k/25. More slots, but no cassette port :-(. Got it free. - Leading Edge DC-2010E, another free 8088 640k/30. Even got an LE monitor and keyboard! Did I mention all three of these 8088's came from the same place? - Leading Technology XI, 386 computer I got free with a dead power supply. Jumpered past a burnt off component and it worked fine. Various configurations depending on what I wanted to do with it, I think it's water damaged now so I guess I'll dry it out eventually and get it running again. - Compaq Deskpro 386S, 5/40 came with an IBM Token Ring card and all the software. Guess where it was before it got to where I got it from!? The Trailblazers basketball team! Yikes... I hate basketball! - Alcatel Terminatel. Hmm... Some wierd French data terminal I picked up at a surplus store, I think for $10. Built in modem, cute little flip-down AZERTY keyboard... Kinda useless, but it's fun to stare at... - Epson PX-8 CP/M laptop. Fun little thing, I got it for free. Has CP/M and Wordstar in ROM. Kinda hard to use, and the battery doesn't seem to hold a charge too well. - Zenith SupersPort 286 laptop. 640k/20. Heavy laptop! Weighs about 15lbs with the battery. Turquoise backlight... - Apple LaserWriter Plus, upgraded from LaserWriter, got it for free, the toner is almost gone. Works fine otherwise, even with a part or two broken or missing... - IBM PS/2 Model 30-286 1/20, ISA bus. Got it free with a nice IBM keyboard and monitor. - IBM PS/2 Model 50Z 2/60, MCA bus, got it free(and two more with no RAM or disks) - IBM PS/2 Model 55sx 2/60, MCA bus, yet another free PS/2... - IBM PS/2 Model 80 2/70, MCA bus. I paid for this one, $50 with two ethernet cards. Huge tower, and a full-height 5.25" ESDI hard drive. - Apollo DN3500, got it and a spare CPU in trade for a Z88, he got the Apollo/HP stuff in trade for a huge PDP-11 system. Also got an IBM 8228 Token Ring MAU(I guess to go with the DomainRing network card) - TI-99/4A Funny little computer that's been around forever, my parents got it when I was a baby and I sat around all day long pounding on the keyboard :-) It's been exchanged for refurbished units probably a half-dozen times. I could always set it up in maybe 5-10 minutes, and my parents refused to even try saying it was too hard... What's so hard about plugging in a power supply and hooking it up to an RF modulator hanging from the back of a twenty year(back then it was only 10yo) old TV? - TI-83 calcualtor. OK, it's not exactly a computer. But it's close... Similair in power to my Epson laptop. I've even heard talk of putting CP/M on a TI calc. And I have seen at least one OS for it, and tons of games. Well, that's all I can remember(or see on the taop layers of all the piles ;-). -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 5 22:39:04 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <199803060119.AA03075@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Well I don't know of a dos based 8080 disassembler but... There are > several dos based programs that can emulate a 8080/z80 and run a any of > the existing 8080 disassemblers. I prefer MYZ80 and resource. 1k of > 8080 code is not bad. What's tough is not knowing what a given port may > do. Though guessing is possible. Actually, I've got a DOS based multi-processor disassembler that has saved my bacon on many an occasion. It is table based and came with an editor so that new processor types can be added. 8080 disassembly was one of the main reasons I bought it. If anyone is interested, I'll look up the vendor and pass it along. (can't at the moment as I'm in the process of rearranging the system that I usually run it on...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 5 22:40:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited Message-ID: <199803060440.AA14252@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, David Williams wrote: > I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a > second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. > This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger > side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may > have been? As I recall, the add-on box on the top provided a place the the second floppy drive to live, and the double size side car provided connectivity to the system bus for the addition of a memory add-on that could be installed in the upper box. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au Thu Mar 5 22:57:52 1998 From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Info needed on Microbee, System 80, Pencil II, TI 99/4 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980306155752.007a5700@isd.canberra.edu.au> I need some information on some old micros I have in my collection. They are all Australian models apart from the TI, although some of them made it overseas. Pencil II --------- The sticker on the base says this machine was made by Soundic Electronics, although I believe it may have been distributed by Hanimex. I need information on the power supply. I have been told it's 9.9V DC 1A and 17.7V DC 500mA, but I need the pinouts for the 3-pin DIN socket the supply is meant to connect to. Microbee -------- I believe the DIN socket at the rear right-hand corner is a combined power supply, cassette in/out and composite video out socket. Can anyone tell me the pinouts? System 80 --------- Originally this had an RF modulator, but the one I have has been very heavily hacked. Can someone give me the pinouts for the video DIN socket? TI 99/4 ------- Note that this is the 99/4, *not* the 99/4a. Can someone tell me the power supply requirements and pinouts? It is *not* the same as the 99/4a. I *think* it may need +5, -5 and +12, but I'm not sure. Thanks in advance, | Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads | | Client Services Division | outweighs the millstone of humiliation." | | University of Canberra |___________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_| | scott@cts.canberra.edu.au | http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html | From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 6 00:07:52 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It has the standard 15pin monitor hook-up like the Mac and round phono jack. The rear looks like a Mac LC or IIci. No date mb either that I can find. Have not fired it up yet. Also got a Tandy 1000RL for twenty with kb and mouse. Got a number of manuals, tech ref's and other written goodies also from .05 to 3.00 each. Got a apple ext. 3.5 FDHD drive for free at the scrap yard but have tested it yet. A IBM 8535-312 missing the memory for $15 will fire it this weekend. Picked up a NeXt N4000B 17" monitor for 16 and a new NeXt software rel 08.30 chip with a date 1988 and serial number of 000A81. Well that's it for I got more stuff this week than I can list here for now. Keep Computing John From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Mar 6 00:46:24 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Sorcerer Message-ID: <19980305224624.03128dae.in@mail.pressstart.com> Sam Ismail said: >It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they >marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not >very common over here. I remember the first time I saw a Sorcerer. It was August or September 1979. I was just out of the Navy, working at TODD shipyards in Seattle. I was downtown and there in the front window of a computer store was a Sorcerer run a hi-res demo of liquid flowing out of a bottle. Very impressive, I wanted one. But I couldn't afford the $700-$800 I seem to remember it costing (Divorce). Well, today I have three. Two of them have their own cardboard briefcases. But I sure would like to find a copy of that demo. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Mar 5 01:53:47 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Info needed on Microbee, System 80, Pencil II, TI 99/4 Message-ID: <199803060652.RAA05274@arthur.merlin.net.au> >Microbee >-------- >I believe the DIN socket at the rear right-hand corner is a combined power >supply, cassette in/out and composite video out socket. Can anyone tell me >the pinouts? I have one of these, but I'm afraid I can't help - the version you speak of should be the Microbee 64 with the Computer-in-a-book combined disk/drive power supply etc. I only have details for the 16k version. Nevertheless I'll try digging them up and see if they help, but hopefully someone else will be able to tell you more. The manuals I have lack details. >System 80 >--------- >Originally this had an RF modulator, but the one I have has been very >heavily hacked. Can someone give me the pinouts for the video DIN socket? I can do this. :) Going on the diagram I have here, we have: 3 ---- ---- 1 / \ / | \ / | \ 5 | 4 2 where 1 is +5v, 4 is video output, and 5 is ground. I have most (if not all) of the manuals for the System 80, including some doubles here. Adam. From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 6 01:00:12 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, > well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on > box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone > else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on > the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade > Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the > bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on > the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From KFergason at aol.com Fri Mar 6 01:25:10 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <7efd593e.34ffa4d8@aol.com> In a message dated 3/6/98 1:00:49 AM Central Standard Time, dastar@wco.com writes: << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. >> Also, the original beta GS's were in //e cases. I've always wondered what happened to the 2 our company had. I don't believe Apple wanted them back. Kelly From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Mar 6 02:19:31 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: I'm back! Now, who...? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306001931.00e3bb80@mail.jps.net> OK, I'm back from JPS Internet. Neat service! Now... based on the latest digest I got, it appears that someone (I'm not clear just who it is) has some MicroVAX II GPX video boards, cable, and mouse available for trade. Please get in touch with me if these are still available. The cable alone is worth the effort for me to obtain. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 02:31:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Apple Items FS Message-ID: <34FFB460.6C661C01@bbtel.com> To update everyone, the Vector 3 has a new home and is on it's way there. I have the following Apple components for sale but will trade as well. You have to pay shipping though either way. * Apple ImageWriter II color dot matrix printer with good color ribbon and mini-din to 25 pin sub-d male adapter cable. The printer itself has a female mini-din connector. $40.00 plus shipping * Apple 5.25" external floppy drive set. Two drives that chain together, marked Drive 1 and Drive 2. Excellent condition. $25.00 plus shipping * SIMMS - 30 pin 1 mb non parity for Apple and Macs that utilize 30 pin SIMMs, not SIPPs or DRAMs. I have 8 of these. Seimens type with 5 large chips and two small chips. $8.00 for the set or even swap for 8 PC compatible 1mb 30 pin type. Items I might trade for: -CDROM drives, internal or external. IDE, SCSI or proprietary. Proprietary drives MUST include applicable adapter card. All should have any available manuals and software if possible. -Sound cards. MCA, ISA, VLB, etc. 8 bit or 16. Again, it would be best to have any available software or manuals if possible. -SIMM memory - 30 or 72 pin parity or non-parity, but MUST be useful in PC's and compatibles. I have no use for the Apple/mac types (hence the sale of the above). -486 motherboards, with processor. EMAIL directly to me for more info... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 02:38:43 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Mac 512k complete set FS/Trade Message-ID: <34FFB613.DDDE3516@bbtel.com> In addition to the previous Apple/mac items message, I also have the following fine machine for sale or trade: --MAC 512k system which includes cpu/monitor unit with original 400k internal floppy, enhanced keyboard, mouse, printer, manuals, software and applicable cables. The unit was owned by a friend of mine since new and only needs a repair or replace of the floppy drive as it's getting old and sometimes doesn't read the disk, does other times. Great condition otherwise. Entire set $75.00 plus shipping or will consider trades (as mentioned in previous) or other PC compatible parts. I'll also include text on upgrading RAM to 1mb using common DRAMs piggybacked. Contact me if interested by direct reply... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 03:55:29 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <017301bd48e6$06dd8260$1af438cb@nostromo> >Yes, you can diassemble the code, no problem. One thing to watch for is >to make sure that you know how the address and data lines on the board >are linked up. You see, all 8 data lines on an EPROM are equivalent. It >may be conventional to assign a particular pin as D0, etc, but there's >no reason that you have to. But obviously if you want to make sense of >the code, you have to know how the bits in the word are connected to the >8080. Ummmmm.... I was stunned tonight to look under the motherboard of this machine and find that it is totally wire-wrapped. Amazingly neat, but wire-wrapped and socketed - every single chip. Finding paths in this thing is going to be very very time consuming! This computer must have been extremely expensive in its day - the amount of work involved is incredible - not having made anything like it, I'm only guessing... but I'd guess many tens of man-hours. Coincidentally, I was on the hunt for another machine (Mattel Aquarius) and the owner and I got into a discussion about S100 machines - he has a garage of them, apparently (he used to design them) - and I told him about the EPROMs (1702As) and how I was going to back mine up - and he said "I have four of those things!!!" Yes, before you ask, I am going after those S100 machines :) Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 05:11:43 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:33 2005 Subject: 8080A disassemblers (MSDOS based) Message-ID: <04f701bd48f0$a89db2a0$1af438cb@nostromo> >> Well I don't know of a dos based 8080 disassembler but... There are >> several dos based programs that can emulate a 8080/z80 and run a any of >> the existing 8080 disassemblers. I have found several 8080A disassemblers. They are relatively easy to find using search engines such as AltaVista - but I will be happy to forward URLs to anyone who has trouble. THere are several sites with loads of disassemblers and assemblers for all platforms. Cheers A From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 05:52:08 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade Message-ID: <28825b06.34ffe36a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-06 02:26:00 EST, you write: << In a message dated 3/6/98 1:00:49 AM Central Standard Time, dastar@wco.com writes: << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. >> >> yes, and the upgrade cost $500. i have a magazine article about it. david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 07:41:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: References: <9803050239.AA03225@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306074107.4157afd8@intellistar.net> At 08:11 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >> The battery pack is just two NiCad AA's welded to a set of contacts. It's >> very easy to fix this on your own - if you don't have a spot-welder >> in your household, solder will do after you roughen up the battery contact >> surfaces. (In the past decade I've gone through >> a HP15C and a HP41, but it's the HP25 that I still prefer...) > >All my HP20-series machines (woodstocks) have a metal spring in the >battery pack that presses the cells against the terminals in the >calculator. It will also connect a pair of normal AA cells together >without needing to spot-weld or solder them. I just rebuilt two of them yesterday. Here's a few comments. They're a lot more reliable if you put a strap across them. The spring/battery joint gets just enough corrision to make it intermitant. Particurly troublesome on the C models. > >You can open up the battery pack, extract the old cells and fit some new >AA NiCds in their place. Take care to get them the right way round, of >course - at least one of my packs has the polarities moulded into the >case, though. They all do. The markings are on the inside though. > >Don't use normal AA primary cells. These machines are designed to run at >2.5V, and a 3V battery pack can cause damage. Yes, that is the voice of >experience. Yeap, that's CMOS for you. Besides non-rechargeable batteries won't last anytime at all in calcs with LED display. Joe > > >> >> Tim. >> > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 08:10:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306081025.41571834@intellistar.net> I just bought CMB 8032 complete with a 4040 drive and CMB (rebadged Diablo 630) printer and a Novation CAT accoustic MODEM. I got all the original disks and manuals and everything else with it including the warranty papers. I got Commodore BASIC, SuperSpell, Word Pro 5 Plus, something called Jinsam and a bunch of other stuff that I haven't figured out yet. Believe it or not, I bought this from a NASA auction last week. Joe At 03:43 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >I had a working CMB 8032, and one day a couple years ago, saw an ad in >the paper "Wanted: CBM 8032". A couple in their 70's placed it. The >wife is a writer, and not a computer user, and only knew how to use her >CBM 8032 which was 15 years old and failing. I brought my 8032 (which I >had set up in my office, after it fell from a high shelf and put a dent >in the hood of my car) to them, swapped it out, swapped roms (mine had >some sort of add-on board) and tore-down, cleaned, and re-assemble the >keyboard for them. and off they went. I think they did have all the >manuals and stuff for the computer, disk drives, and printers. > >alas, I don't have any PET computers anymore. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:erd@infinet.com] >> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 3:28 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... >> >> > >> > Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to >> > go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are >> improving >> > again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) >> > >> > What I passed up on... >> > PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. >> >> Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. It was one of the >> item >> burgled from my house a while back, along with an Amiga 500 and a rare >> A500 >> to 8-bit ISA adapter from Canada called "The Wedge". I _really_ wish >> I >> had that... it was built for a WX-1 MFM controller (or a DTC 5160 RLL >> controller), but would work perfectly for an 8-bit Ethernet card. >> >> Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still >> there? >> >> -ethan >> >> ObBIO: 31, Male, collect 1802/6502/68000/PDP-8/PDP-11/VAX/SPARC. >> Started >> with the PET and Elf in 1977. Have spare Apple ][, C-64, Amiga and >> SunSPARC >> parts/systems for trade. My rarest find is probably my tiny >> collection of >> 4004 CPUs and support chips. >> > From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Mar 6 07:31:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found Message-ID: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this what you are describing? Marty From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 08:32:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: References: <008301bd4883$93461040$1af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> At 11:24 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> So, firstly I ask if anyone with a 1702 programmer who would be prepared to > >I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. >You probably don't need to make a copy _now_. Just make sure the EPROM >images are backed up onto something permanent (paper tape ? :-)). Then >somebody can burn you a copy in the future if you need one. He had ALSO better back it up to something newer than a paper tape, paper tape readers are getting hard to find. In fact, since 1702s and programmers for them are getting rare, I think someone should engineer a 1702 replacement out of modern ICs that can be programmed on a modern equipement. Then match the storage media to that equipment. Given the rapidly dropping cost of recordable CDs, I think it whould be worthwhile to record the code on that. They should last nearly forever. Joe From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 07:47:34 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP partial digest 346 Message-ID: <199803061347.IAA22446@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> Hi. I'm new. But enough chatter. I see Bruce Lane is interested in uVAX II GPX video boards... That brings to mind the set of VCB02 boards-cables-and-keyboards which I've got "stranded" in London after a failed attempt to get them to Rochester, NY, from mid-Scotland "on the cheap." I'd love to hear from anybody who a) can get them from London to Rochester (or even just to the USA) cheap or free, or b) is IN or NEAR London and has an interest in them and something to trade which is already IN the USA... I know this is a long shot, but hey, I had to make a grand, if weird, entrance... Chris Chiesa cchi@lle.rochester.edu From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 6 07:48:19 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803052049.OAA17233@mailbox.neosoft.com> References: <199803051938.LAA26377@sqcisco.squeep.com> <3.0.3.32.19980305132720.007f3670@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306074819.00b7b35c@ibmhelp.com> At 02:49 PM 3/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >I was in a thrift store during lunch and saw a PCjr which had a >second box attached to the top which contained a second floppy drive. >This almost doubled the height of the system and there was a larger >side car type box on the side as well. Any ideas as to what this may >have been? Was it just for adding a second floppy maybe? I'm >thinking about going back by and picking it up. The box on top could be from Rapport/Racore (Racore now does routers and such), PC Enterprises (still in biz in Jersey, I think) or one other outfit. It may also have up to a 384K RAM expansion in it, as well as a 10, 20 or possibly a 30MB disk in it--but if you saw a floppy there probably isn't a disk. The sidecar could be memory, a parallel printer port attachment, or one of several other dongles that came out for jr. I had a Microsoft 128K sidecar on mine, included a bus mouse--can't remember the name of the product, and I think my wife sold it and the docs for it long ago. For what it's worth, the connector on the right side of the case is essentially a bus extension, and there were several interesting products that used it to add stuff that IBM never imagined. Some day I'll tell about the time I got a call from the PCjr team at Teledyne in Lewisburg (they fab'd the Peanut for IBM). >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw@neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 08:03:49 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Calc wars, other calc stuff, my own previous post (uVAX/GPX) Message-ID: <199803061403.JAA22459@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> Hello all... me again. I apologize for writing twice in one day, but I've requested "Digest mode" and am finding several topics I can respond to. I should've waited before sending the previous message, but will now be aware of this and will cover ALL current topics of my interest in this ONE note, to save you all the pain of seeing SEVERAL messages from me. (If you'd RATHER have several separate messages, someone just say so...) 1) Joe quotes a message quoted by someone else, in which the original author says that "... it's the HP25 that I still prefer..." Original author, whoever you are, I wanted to let you know that I have a set of original manuals and -- if I can still FIND it -- the AC adapter, left over when my own HP25 was stolen from me one day in high school -- circa 1978... If you're interested in these items, e-mail me. 2) At a Hamfest last spring I acquired a TI calculator -- I forget the model number right off; I wasn't expecting to talk about this today, but it's the programmable one that reads-and-writes those magnetic cards -- along with programming manual(s) and the external PRINTER, not to mention a fistful of the magcards. The only trouble is, instructions stored in program memory randomly get altered, i.e. the memory is no longer reli- able (hmm, just like ME!). Is it "just old," and there nothing that can be done? Or can it be repaired? Much obliged, for any info anyone can provide. 3) At that same Hamfest last spring, some guy found out I was "into" calcu- lators, HP in particular (notwithstanding that TI-whatever I'd just bought), and talked my ear off about some "latest and greatest" HP calculator that "did it all," allowing you to mix "ordinary" calculator statements, BASIC, and C syntax "all on one program line," among many other things. I have forgotten the model number, so if anyone recognizes this description and can TELL me the model number, and of course where to find out more about the thing, I'd really appreciate it. 4) My HP-33C battery doesn't hold a charge anymore; please advise. Joe Rig- don...? 5) Re: that uVAX stuff I mentioned in my PREVIOUS message: I'd be MOST inter- ested in anyone who could trade "my" stuff in London, for "his" set of the "same" stuff in the US! I can provide a more detailed itemization of what I have. Chris Chiesa From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 08:19:37 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <001d01bd490a$e69580a0$05f438cb@nostromo> >>I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >>I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >>through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. > > Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. Yes. I am fairly comfortable with sending these overseas for preservation. I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. :) What sort of reliability does well made, but 23 year old, wire wrap circuitry have? Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 09:28:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <001d01bd490a$e69580a0$05f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306092845.4e5f87d0@intellistar.net> At 01:19 AM 3/7/98 +1100, you wrote: >>>I'd rather not do this, not because I don't want to help you, but because >>>I'd be a little worried about sending 4 irreplaceable eraseable chips >>>through the post. I would hope somebody Stateside could help you. >> >> Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >>to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. > > >Yes. I am fairly comfortable with sending these overseas for preservation. I wrote that more for Tony than you. >I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to >whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my >computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. >:) I think it would look better on your forehead. Be easier to read too. :-) > >What sort of reliability does well made, but 23 year old, wire wrap >circuitry have? Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? > No, it's more like it welds itself on. Especially if it's good wirewrapping. Joe >Cheers >A > > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 08:33:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <002801bd490c$c47e7920$05f438cb@nostromo> >>I expect to back the code up in several places; on the web, distributed to >>whomever of you indicates interest, and also on duplicate EPROMS, on my >>computer, tattooed in hex on my shoulder... that should just about do it. >>:) > > I think it would look better on your forehead. Be easier to read too. :-) *makes mental note* Don't do it whilst looking in a mirror! > Is wire-wrap susceptible to "slip"? > No, it's more like it welds itself on. Especially if it's good >wirewrapping. Oh, the quality looks superb. This is one well-made machine. Cheers A From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Mar 6 08:32:24 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Demography Message-ID: <9802068892.AA889223825@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Joachim Thiemann wrote: > While we're at it (the buisness of veering grossly off-charter), who > else here collects electronic music equipment of about the same vintage > as the computers discussed here? I have a Korg Poly-800, Yamaha DX-7II, > 2 FB-01's, CS-01, a Sequential SixTrack, 360 Systems MidiBass, and a > homebrew MIDI interface to hook some of this to my Amiga. I have Yes, but not very enthusiastically. I've never really got into electronic music, preferring to do my composing (and most of my playing) at the piano. But, (getting a little closer to the topic) I do have a rather fun device - a Bontempi organ with a number of built in rhythms implemented in 74-series discrete gate TTL. > BTW Any of you UK guys have collections of the old E&MM magazine? I'm > missing 1 or 2 issues in the 84 (83?) season... Sorry, not something I ever read. > > > > sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up > > photography. > > > > Eh, who'd have figured.. another bassoon player. Who is it? I missed > > some > > important attributions. 'Twas I, Philip Belben. For what it's worth. I don't think that bassoonists are rare enough that two or three on this list is statistically significant. Still, nice to hear from another one. (On the other hand, there is probably a strong correlation between bassoonists and eccentrics, and a stronger one between this list and eccentrics.) Philip. From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:19:26 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: (message from Tony Duell on Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:26:04 +0000 (GMT)) Message-ID: <199803061519.KAA02575@mail.iac.net> > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:26:04 +0000 (GMT) > From: Tony Duell > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 > [snip] > Well, as I said last week, these monitors are about the most dangerous > piece of classic computer equipment to repair. Apart from the video input > circuit (before the opto-isolator), everything inside them is directly > connected to the power line. It's like an AA5 radio, with the added > advantage of an EHT power supply. > [snip] I really > don't recomend this one for a novice. > Well Tony, you convinced me last week. I have this _survival_ thing going, and don't want to cut my streak of good luck short any time soon. Seems like old hardware is more available than old software and documentation. I suppose copyrights still exist on this stuff, but it seems like the web is the perfect place for old tech reference manuals and schematics. Wasn't Allison involved with the TRS-80 development? Know anyone at RS who might be able to sign off on putting this stuff into the public domain so our types can publish this documentation? --jmg From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:38:21 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: (message from Sam Ismail on Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803061538.KAA03607@mail.iac.net> Hi Sam, > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST) > From: Sam Ismail > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Old computer still accessible on internet? > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > others, what are you using? > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > for download somewhere? > Windows is an abomination. However, when I've been forced to work with it and needed a telnet I always used QVT Telnet. See: http://mirror.queen.it/cws/32term-reviews.html for reviews of various Windows telnet apps, and: http://www.frontiernet.net/~qpcsoft/ for the WinQVT home page. This is shareware, not freeware. For an _excellent_ freeware telnet, I recommend NetBSD or Linux. --jmg From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Mar 6 03:42:24 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <199803061542.JAA15237@mailbox.neosoft.com> No, this is the same depth and width but taller, this box is mounted on top. I'm going by there to pick it up later today. I'll post pictures of it afterwards on my website. On 6 Mar 98 at 8:31, Marty wrote: > I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as > system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right > hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this > what you are describing? > > Marty > > ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 09:44:05 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. $20 bucks. I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with Macintosh adapters? If not, what's the pinout and can I buy the DIN plug from Mouser? And hell, while I'm at it, where can I find a terminal program with x/y/zmodem capabilities? Is there anything like XIO2PC on the Atari for the Apple? Anyone know of a web page which documents DOS commands? Gee, I'm just full of questions. I'm still looking for a cheap source for DD/DD 5 1/4" floppies. The office supply store down the street wants $10 for a ten pack and I have to special order them, while $10 will get me a huge box of HD 3 1/2....grrrrr Thanks! --jmg From pb14 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Mar 6 09:31:17 1998 From: pb14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > $20 bucks. The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you get the stand? > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > Macintosh adapters? For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ The Nibble magazine disks were a good find too. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From archive at navix.net Fri Mar 6 14:04:22 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc References: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <350056C5.91DBF161@navix.net> Phil Beesley wrote: > On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > > $20 bucks. > > The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you > get the stand? I just got a //c, monitor, disk, drive, etc., also. I did get the stand with it. > > > > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > > Macintosh adapters? > > For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and > ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ > > The Nibble magazine disks were a good find too. > > Phil > > > ************************************************************** > Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport > University of Leicester > > Tel (0)116 252-2231 > E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 6 12:27:53 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: value of Sol 20 and Imsai 8080 Message-ID: <19980306182753.8215.qmail@hotmail.com> I am in the market for a Sol 20 and and/or an Imsai 8080. I would like to know what the "going" price is so that I will know how much to pay for them if they become available to me. Any opinions would be welcome. Thanks, Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pjoules at enterprise.net Fri Mar 6 11:26:55 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? References: <199803061538.KAA03607@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <350031DE.FE1F617C@enterprise.net> J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > For an _excellent_ freeware telnet, I recommend NetBSD or Linux. > I'll second that, I run Linux as my main PC OS at home and only boot windows when I have to. At work most of my time is spent at a windows machine running a commercial package called TinyTerm to telnet into our RS6000. TinyTerm is produced by Century Software, I don't have their URL to hand. Regards Pete From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Mar 6 12:46:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Slightly on topic... tip for linux? Message-ID: <13337567556.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Does anyone know if there is a tip for Linux? (The comm program?) It had an option to go to another port if the one needed was busy. Minicom can't do that. I would like that ability, 'cause when I connect the 44 here, I'd like to have people telnet to a port and get passed straight into the DH plug, via pip, without having to have an account on the PC ------- From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 13:34:10 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <5132563012@orchid.le.ac.uk> (message from Phil Beesley on Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:31:17 +0100 (BST)) Message-ID: <199803061934.OAA14624@mail.iac.net> > Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:31:17 +0100 (BST) > From: Phil Beesley > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Apple IIc > > On 6 Mar 98 at 10:44, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Well, I scored an Apple IIc with an external Floppy drive, > > Imagewriter printerer, and small composite green (maybe 9"?) monitor. > > $20 bucks. > > The little white one from Apple that matches the IIc? If so, did you > get the stand? Negative, no stand - but I remember them. > > > I also got some disks with it, but no games - mostly old > > nibble magazine disks. This thing has a serial port on it, anyone > > know what the pinout is and if these ports are compatible with > > Macintosh adapters? > > For pinout information plus info on terminal emulators and DOS and > ProDOS, try (one of) the Apple II FAQs at > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ Thanks! --jmg From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Mar 6 14:03:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From william at ans.net Fri Mar 6 14:15:03 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Finally gone... Message-ID: For quite a few years, one bit of folklore that has popped up on a regular basis is that of old IBM dinosaurs running our air traffic control system. Well, I was just wasting some (work)time now looking at some recent threads on , and it is fairly clear that the 9020s are now all gone after probably too many years of service. The interesting thing is that the machines that replaced them, 3083s, are also now considered classics. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 6 14:01:32 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr found In-Reply-To: <199803061542.JAA15237@mailbox.neosoft.com> References: <1998Mar06.083134.1767.86371@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306140132.007ef100@ibmhelp.com> At 09:42 AM 3/6/98 +0000, you wrote: >No, this is the same depth and width but taller, this box is mounted >on top. I'm going by there to pick it up later today. I'll post >pictures of it afterwards on my website. > The sidecar you're describing provides an interface from the stacker box to the bus connection on the side of the jr and connects to both the stacker and the jr. It may or may not have a parallel port on it too. Did I guess right? >On 6 Mar 98 at 8:31, Marty wrote: > >> I have a PCJr with a box (dimensions are same depth and height as >> system unit but is about 2 1/2" wide) that is mounted on the right >> hand side of the system unit and contains a parallel port. Is this >> what you are describing? >> >> Marty >> >> > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw@neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 14:18:04 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <002801bd493c$fb1a1d60$05f438cb@nostromo> I have the same problem, but my mail still gets to the list. Most annoying, though. A -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 7:16 AM Subject: Is this getting out? > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced >back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 6 14:26:45 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it >bounced >back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... I got that too when I posted last time, it looks like a full mailbox at someones account or a server that gets too much traffic(or too small a hard drive...). It has nothing to do with the list, withthe exception that there are probably people not getting any messages... -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Fri Mar 6 14:45:02 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <199803062045.PAA23085@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> It's getting out to ME. When you got the "full mailbag" error messages, did they show up as "return e-mail" messages? That probably means that one of the list-members who should have RECEIVED your message, had a "full mailbag" and couldn't take another message. Everyone OTHER than that guy, though, from whom you DIDN'T get an error message, probably DID get your message. Chris Chiesa "the new guy" From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 6 15:05:34 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Demography? References: Message-ID: <3500651E.1C1D@digiweb.com> John Rollins wrote: > - Alcatel Terminatel. Hmm... Some wierd French data terminal I picked up > at a surplus store, I think for $10. Built in modem, cute little flip-down > AZERTY keyboard... Kinda useless, but it's fun to stare at... Yes, that would not be much use in the States. This is a French minitel terminal. Many years ago, the story I heard was that the French telephone service decided that it would stop printing telephone directories and use the savings to set up an online directory enquiry system. They basically gave every telephone subscriber a free terminal. They also set it up so that other companies could provide information to subscribers using that terminal, with charges being added to the customer's phone bill, rather like your 900 numbers. This resulted in an explosion of services and gave FRance the first public data access system - sort of like the WWW, though much slower. France still uses the minitel system, more so that the internet because of the inertia of the existing services. They are still printing telephone directories though ;-) -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 6 14:44:18 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980306000752.006c020c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306144418.006c59fc@pop3.concentric.net> This unit looks as if it was assembled by Apple looking at all the labels and the painted icons on the rear panel. Hope take some pictures and put on the web. At 11:00 PM 3/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> A few weeks back someone asked about Apple IIGS that looked like a IIe, >> well a got one today at an auction for free. The guy that won the bid on >> box of electronics gave it to me but he gave the color monitor to someone >> else :-( It looks just like a IIe or II case except for the IIGS logo on >> the lid next to the apple name. On the bottom it says Apple IIGS Upgrade >> Model No. A2S6001 with a serial number following that. No date is on the >> bottom but the mother board says Apple IIGS on it also and has 7 slots on >> the rear another to the side with a memory expander in it right now. It > >I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the >//gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From jmg at iac.net Fri Mar 6 14:58:26 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks Message-ID: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 6 14:58:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: <199803062058.AA04069@world.std.com> < Seems like old hardware is more available than old software Thanks for the info! I appreciate it! Chris From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 15:17:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 6, 98 03:58:26 pm Message-ID: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/345df77d/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 15:50:02 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <002801bd493c$fb1a1d60$05f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 07:18:04 am Message-ID: <9803062150.AA24532@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/4cc2d072/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 6 16:15:14 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Found a Apple IIGS UPgrade In-Reply-To: <7efd593e.34ffa4d8@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, KFergason wrote: > << I believe there was an upgrade kit that came out a short while after the > //gs was introduced that allowed one to upgrade their //e to a //gs. > >> > > Also, the original beta GS's were in //e cases. I've always wondered > what happened to the 2 our company had. I don't believe Apple wanted them > back. I have one of the early //gs prototypes. It originally was in a //e case but the person I got it from gave it to me in a //gs case. It still has a bug in the sound system as it emits this constant high-pitched shrill which is quite annoying. It's been upgraded to the 01 ROM but I got the original ROMs with it. The original ROMs are stored on three chips mounted on this funky L-shaped board that plugs into the ROM socket. I paid way too much for this at $300. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 16:34:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? In-Reply-To: <9803062150.AA24532@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 6, 98 01:50:02 pm Message-ID: <9803062234.AA10338@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 806 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/9167c311/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 16:46:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks References: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35007CDD.815ED884@bbtel.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > > If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF > at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed > boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > > All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies > available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No > idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. Try MEI Micro. They run a whole lot less and aren't surplus, all brand new. Quill (office supply mailorder) also has 360k unformatted and formetted floppies at times on sale. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 6 16:49:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? References: <3.0.3.32.19980306120338.00e429a0@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <35007D75.44072B11@bbtel.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > Every time I've tried to post to this list, I've been getting it bounced > back with a 'Full Mailbag' error. I hope this one gets through... They're still going through, even with the mailbag error. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Mar 6 16:25:22 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980225204054.2cf78f02@intellistar.net> References: <199802252207.QAA12304@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <199803062257.QAA07451@onyx.southwind.net> > > > >> At 08:30 AM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: > >> >You know, I have a WD-1000-XX controller that supposedly can talk to > >> >these drives. It also can talk to 5.25" drives. > >> > > >> >These controllers are SASI on the 'other' end (I think). > >> > > >> >Hmmm. I don't see many SA-1000's being offered for sale . .. > >> > > >> >Jeff > >> > >> I don't know if they're SA-1000s or what but I have two 8" DDs out of a > >> Tektronix piece of gear. I haven't had time to fool with them so i don't > >> even know how many contacts there are in the connector but they use AC > motors. > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > >Oh I believe that! It seems even most 8" *floppies* I've seen use > >115vac for power. (Ummm, are you implying that you *may* have a > >couple for sale?) > > > > > >Jeff > > Well let's put it this way, I'm not using them for anything. :-) > > Joe > > Joe, Well, could you eyeball those drives and let me know what ya got? If they're the right make and model, I would be interested in purchasing at least one. Jeff From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Mar 6 17:13:37 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <9803062118.AA07230@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199803062058.PAA18287@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> what is the address at ubc ill be going dow to van soon. (what does serf stand for) chris in castlegar bc canada At 01:17 PM 06/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: >> >> http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html >> $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > >If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF >at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed >boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > >All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies >available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No >idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. > >Tim. > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 6 17:21:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> from "Chris Halarewich" at Mar 6, 98 03:13:37 pm Message-ID: <9803062321.AA06743@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/401bec09/attachment.ksh From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Mar 6 17:28:37 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <9803062321.AA06743@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.1.32.19980306151337.00691c9c@vader.kootenay.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980306152837.0069171c@vader.kootenay.net> email me privatly with hour home address asnd i will stop by. thanx chris At 03:21 PM 06/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >> what is the address at ubc ill be going dow to van soon. (what does serf >> stand for) > >Surplus Equipment Recycling Facility. It's at UBC, which you can reach >by going West on 10th or 16th. Their regular sales are every second >Wednesday afternoon; Wednesday the 11th is their next sale. SERF is >on Agronomy Road inside the UBC Campus. > >If you're interested in minicomputer-oriented stuff, stop by my house >and you'll be able to cart off all sorts of stuff as I pare things >down for my upcoming move. Everything from 9-track tape reels and drives >to 14" disk packs. > >Tim. > > From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Mar 4 13:50:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: <34FF217C.8F1156AD@enterprise.net> Message-ID: <199803070050.TAA20528@smtp.interlog.com> On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > others, what are you using? > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > for download somewhere? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try the SBI list site at http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 19:57:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306195757.507f70da@intellistar.net> > > I'm still looking for a cheap source for DD/DD 5 1/4" >floppies. The office supply store down the street wants $10 for a ten >pack and I have to special order them, while $10 will get me a huge >box of HD 3 1/2....grrrrr The local trift stores here have them by the thousands. Don't they have any there? I still see unopened boxs of them at hamfests and garage sales. I can get you piles of used ones if you're not picky and don't mind paying the shipping. In fact, I have a couple of grocery bags of ones that are laying around here if you want them. Joe PS you might prefer the trift store pickings, there's lots of original disks in there for all kinds of things. I picked out 15 to 20 hard sectored 5 1/4" floppies, a complete set of Quick Basic, Borland Pascal, original OS disk for a Vector Graphics 4 and lots of other goodies. > >Thanks! >--jmg > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 6 14:11:41 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803070050.TAA20528@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> > On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > > others, what are you using? > > > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > > for download somewhere? > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Try the SBI list site at > http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm > > They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg > on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. > > ciao larry > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > What about Anzio Lite? This thing does the 127 ascii for the del for the backspace key correctly for the unix and vaxens and does different VT emulation really good. The cost? $25 to get free of nagware. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Mar 6 19:27:16 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: IBM's second tries Message-ID: <19980307012716.7594.qmail@hotmail.com> I got a PS/2 Model 60 and OS/2 2.0 (1992, but still classic) PS/2: a)How do I get rid of the mold inside? b)What is the PSU pinout if I want to put in a regular motherboard? c)Is there a way to upgrade the mb to 386 with <$10 and a 386 mb OS/2: a)I installed it on a 386 w/4 MB RAM (min. requirement). It CRAWLS. Should I replace the MFM HDD w/ IDE? b)Does anyone have os/2 1.x that they could send me? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Mar 6 13:47:33 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Strange PCjr Part 2 and VIC-20s In-Reply-To: References: <199803022232.WAA30217@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <199803070142.TAA26122@mailbox.neosoft.com> Well I stopped back by the thrift to pick up the double decker PCjr I saw yesterday and it was gone. OK, which one of you guys read my post and grabbed it. :-) Who ever picked it up left all the other PCjr stuff there, they only took the system itself. So, no pictures or other info on that PCjr. Had to settle for a couple of VIC-20s which was OK since I didn't have one yet. They seem to be two slightly different models of VIC-20s. They have different power connectors and power switches. Also pickup a VIC-1541 drive which someone added a switch to that seems to change the drive unit number from 8 to 9. One of the VICs had a cart in the back, VIC-1931 labeled Clowns which I guess is a game. Grabbed a spare Apple Disk II just because. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 20:44:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:34 2005 Subject: Finally gone... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306204433.5087d1b0@intellistar.net> At 03:15 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >For quite a few years, one bit of folklore that has popped up on a regular >basis is that of old IBM dinosaurs running our air traffic control system. >Well, I was just wasting some (work)time now looking at some recent >threads on , and it is fairly clear that the 9020s >are now all gone after probably too many years of service. > >The interesting thing is that the machines that replaced them, 3083s, are >also now considered classics. That's what you would referr to as using proven technology! This reminds me of a story about the HP calculators. When the HP 35 calculator came out some of the US Army artillery men at Ft. Sill saw how fast they were and their accuracy so they put in a requision to buy a bunch of them. The Department of Defense liked the idea but they had to have a feasibilty study to justify the purchase, so they spent $150,000 for a study that took two years and end the end the study did show the costs of the purchase to be justified. Next, the army went to HP to buy some HP 35s but they found out that the 35 had been discontinued and had been replaced by the HP 45. They tried the HP 45 and found that it was even better, so they requested that the HP 45 be purchased instead. Again the DOD liked the idea so they commissioned another $150,000 study to justify the purchase of HP 45s. After a year and a half, this study also found the purchase to be justified. The army then went back to HP to purchase their HP 45s and .... You guessed it, the 45 had been discontinued and had been replaced by the HP 55. So the army requested that HP 55s be purchased. The DOD commissioned a third study (only $100,000 this time, the beltway bandits had this down pat!) to justify this purchase. This time the study only took a year. Again the army personnel rushed to HP to buy HP calculators, only to find out that the HP 55 had been discontinued! The artillerymen gave up and went back to their charts and tables! Joe > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > From aaron at prinsol.com Fri Mar 6 19:54:32 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: The one that I like the best and is *free* is Tera Term. You can find it at http://www.windows95.com in the network tools section. It has been rock-solid and has a lot of nifty features, as well as all kinds of emulations. In fact, I am using it right now, via my unix box at work.... Aaron On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > On 5 Mar 98 at 17:57, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > > > > > > > Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and > > > > (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about > > > > others, what are you using? > > > > > > The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available > > > for download somewhere? > > > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Try the SBI list site at > > http://dkeep.com/sbi/sbi_link.htm > > > > They have a lot of info and links. I just installed a shareware prg > > on my win 3.1 called comt. Not bad. > > > > ciao larry > > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > > > > What about Anzio Lite? This thing does the 127 ascii for > the del for the backspace key correctly for the unix and vaxens and > does different VT emulation really good. > > The cost? $25 to get free of nagware. :) > > Jason D. > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > Pero, Jason D. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 20:55:56 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <199803062257.QAA07451@onyx.southwind.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980225204054.2cf78f02@intellistar.net> <199802252207.QAA12304@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306205556.5087b0a8@intellistar.net> At 04:25 PM 3/6/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >> > >> >> At 08:30 AM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >You know, I have a WD-1000-XX controller that supposedly can talk to >> >> >these drives. It also can talk to 5.25" drives. >> >> > >> >> >These controllers are SASI on the 'other' end (I think). >> >> > >> >> >Hmmm. I don't see many SA-1000's being offered for sale . .. >> >> > >> >> >Jeff >> >> >> >> I don't know if they're SA-1000s or what but I have two 8" DDs out of a >> >> Tektronix piece of gear. I haven't had time to fool with them so i don't >> >> even know how many contacts there are in the connector but they use AC >> motors. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> >Oh I believe that! It seems even most 8" *floppies* I've seen use >> >115vac for power. (Ummm, are you implying that you *may* have a >> >couple for sale?) >> > >> > >> >Jeff >> >> Well let's put it this way, I'm not using them for anything. :-) >> >> Joe >> >> > >Joe, > >Well, could you eyeball those drives and let me know what ya got? If >they're the right make and model, I would be interested in purchasing >at least one. > >Jeff > I'll take a look at them in a day or two and let you know what they are. I just got two more 8" drives. These are Siemens model 120-8. They're also 120 VAC and use a 50 pin card edge connector. These were spares (not original) for a Tandy 6000 so they should have a standard interface. Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 20:03:51 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks Message-ID: <75749fa1.3500ab09@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-06 16:18:31 EST, you write: << Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) >> i have ~100 i'd like to get rid of. most are dd, a few are hd. they've all been used before, but i reformatted them on a pc so they all work. they all have their jackets too. they're not worth much in money terms, but anything similarly worthless for trade would be welcome. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 6 20:18:53 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: IBM's second tries Message-ID: mold? if its everywhere inside, good luck! if its just the foam, rip it out. use that armor all all-purpose cleaner. wont take the colour out and cleans good. the pinout is proprietary. this is a ps/2 remember? the form factor is not AT compatible, so forget it. model 60 is 10mhz 286 with 1 meg. there are chips to upgrade to 386 from 286, but only access up to 16meg anyway. 24bit mem addressing. the hard drive is esdi type which connects like an mfm drive. can't do ide drives either. i dont know of a mca ide card. maybe aftermarket though. i have os2 1.3 never used, but i'm keeping that for archives. david In a message dated 98-03-06 20:28:14 EST, you write: << I got a PS/2 Model 60 and OS/2 2.0 (1992, but still classic) PS/2: a)How do I get rid of the mold inside? b)What is the PSU pinout if I want to put in a regular motherboard? c)Is there a way to upgrade the mb to 386 with <$10 and a 386 mb OS/2: a)I installed it on a 386 w/4 MB RAM (min. requirement). It CRAWLS. Should I replace the MFM HDD w/ IDE? b)Does anyone have os/2 1.x that they could send me? >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 17:51:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Sol-20 revisited In-Reply-To: <199803060440.AA14252@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 5, 98 11:40:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1575 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/07057249/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 17:56:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Calc wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306074107.4157afd8@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 07:41:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980306/f39c9161/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 18:46:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Broken TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <199803061519.KAA02575@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 6, 98 10:19:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/3d4fdf9e/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Mar 6 10:25:02 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: VSchool: (Directed at kids, but adult's welcome too!) Just an idea... Message-ID: <01bd491c$6b7fee20$LocalHost@hotze> Hello. Several days ago, under the demography thread I briefly mentioned the "VSchool" concept. So, for those interested, here's what I want to do. Background info: The VSchool idea came from two needs: my need to create a virtual community, and, more importantly, the need for children (ages pretty much 6th grade-12th grade) to be able to learn at their own rate. At the subjects that they're interested in, or feel weak in. So, I then think of a place where all this could take place, actively, and freely. Now, Bahrain is far to remote to even begin to demonstrate something. Also, it's got limited resources and views. The Internet. It's used by far more than the population of any city, and equal to that of many countries. How I plan to pull it off: This is the area that I don't have to spend 50 lines telling you what CGI is and does. So, I'll use CGI (anyone got info on this?) to put up forms, (I can't program it... sorry...), and then we can make a chat room of some sort, possibly a Javascript password form. (Ok, so I'll need lots of help) So far, the best deal that I've seen in web hosting is digitalchainsaw (at http://www.digitalchainsaw.net) Anyway, we'll have two functions: Students will "enroll" (for free), and then they'll choose their area of expertise. There, they will be considered a teacher. In other areas, they'll be considered students. Teachers will work together to develop a curriculum. Then, they'll work together to teach others. I want to have a copmputer history as well as a computer interest group. I'm asking for your help. You would be considered a partner, if you wanted. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 6 18:11:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 08:32:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/c3ad2f78/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 6 22:12:48 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> At 12:11 AM 3/7/98 +0000, you wrote: >> Trouble is, he's in Australia not in the US. The ROMs are going to have >> to be shipped unless someone in Au has a 1702 reader. > >I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot >simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. The problem >is that the 1702 uses at least one strange voltage (a -9V supply, I >think), and if you make a mistake when building the reader you could ruin >the very chips that you're trying to save. > >The ultimate solution would be for somebody to program a 'spare' 1702 >with a known byte sequence, and use that to test the homebrew reader. A >lot of work, though. > >I am still a bit worried about sending irreplaceable chips by mail. I've >had a number of old computer bits sent to me, and AFAIK there have been >no problems - in fact the Customs haven't even opened the packages. But >murphy's law states that the package that contains those EPROMs will be >the one that's suspected of being a bomb and blown up, or the one that's >X-rayed with a sufficient dose to damage the chips, or the one that's >lost, or whatever. > > >> >> >> >You probably don't need to make a copy _now_. Just make sure the EPROM >> >images are backed up onto something permanent (paper tape ? :-)). Then >> >somebody can burn you a copy in the future if you need one. >> >> He had ALSO better back it up to something newer than a paper tape, paper >> tape readers are getting hard to find. In fact, since 1702s and > >I thought most members of this list had a pair of optical paper tape readers >fixed in their faces :-) Yes, but my optical readers never were that good to begin with and they certainly haven't improved with age :-( And the memory that it's connected to acts like a buffer, FIFO, if you know what I mean. > >Seriously, good paper tape reading machines are going to last almost for >ever - there's not a lot to go wrong with them. And I'm quite sure >there'll be _somebody_ with one in the future. Perhaps in a museum. > >I didn't mean that paper tape should be the only backup - keep a copy on >disk, on CD, on DAT tape, on whatever. Hopefully it will remain useable. >Use it as an image to disassemble, and to make replacement EPROMs. But >having a copy on a known-almost-permantent storage medium can also be useful > >> programmers for them are getting rare, I think someone should engineer a >> 1702 replacement out of modern ICs that can be programmed on a modern >> equipement. Then match the storage media to that equipment. Given the > >It's called a larger EPROM with the higher address lines tied to ground :-) Except that -9 V is still sitting there. > >2764's are so cheap now that it's worth using one as a 256 byte (or 1K, >or whatever) EPROM and wasting most of the chip. That's what I mean, just a piggy back board to change the pin out of a 2764 (or something similar) to mathc the 1702 socket. 2764s are definitely easier to find and cheaper than 1702s! > >Making up an adapter board shouldn't be hard apart from the fact that the >1702 doesn't have a ground connection. The simplest way to deal with that >is to have a flying lead on the adapter board that you solder to a 0V pin >in the computer. Hardly original, but then nor is using the 2764 in the >first place. > >I suppose you _could_ put a 9V1 zener diode in series with the -9V >supply to drop the 9V. I'd also connect a 1k resistor between the power >and ground pins at the EPROM if I did this, to ensure that there's enough >current flowing for the zener to work correctly. Maybe I'll try it sometime. > >> rapidly dropping cost of recordable CDs, I think it whould be worthwhile to >> record the code on that. They should last nearly forever. > >Hmm... I'd rather trust paper tape than a CD. And a paper tape reader is >going to be a lot easier to repair than a CDROM drive - getting spares >for those is, in general, non-trivial as I found out. And when was the >last time you saw a CD-ROM drive service manual? Good point but I can BUY a CD drive for less than it would cost me to move my KSR-33! Actually if you're dealing with a 1702, it's small enough that you can just write the code down! And paper is paper! BTW went to a surplus auction at a nearby air force base yesterday. They had some of the old familar yellow teletype paper for sale! (Hell no, I didn't buy it! I would just as soon never see another teletype!) Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 6 21:34:14 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <001101bd4979$eacb3ba0$21f438cb@nostromo> Well the bottom line is... I'm not an electronics guy. The option I will be following is getting the 1702A EPROMS copied and a) backed up to several media formats b) duplicated to new 1702As. >I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot >simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. >The ultimate solution would be for somebody to program a 'spare' 1702 >with a known byte sequence, and use that to test the homebrew reader. A >lot of work, though. No, this isn't a solution. I'm a software guy - I'll re-engineer the 8080A code if and when necessary, but there's no way I'm going to build hardware for this thing. I just want to copy some EPROMS... not delve into clever engineering to make them redundant! By the way, I have found several 8080A disasemblers for MSDOS. THere are quite a few websites around carrying such goodies. > Or the one that's >X-rayed with a sufficient dose to damage the chips, or the one that's >lost, or whatever. Is the X-Raying a valid problem? Will X-Rays further damage already fragile EPROMS? As I said, I may have found myself four 1702A EPROMS, the only problem here is getting the code from A to B. Maybe the ideal solution would be for me to borrow a 1702 reader and do the job over here. That way, the irreplacible EPROMs don't travel at all. Cheers A From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Mar 6 21:40:26 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3501c184.2328435@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:57:07 -0800 (PST), you said: >On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > >> Seriously - all you need is a telnet client for your OS - Windoze95 and >> (I think) all unix flavours have it as standard. I dont know about >> others, what are you using? > >The Win95 telnet is an abomination. Is there a well written one available >for download somewhere? You might check www.tucows.com _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 6 23:46:42 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <3.0.1.16.19980306083259.4e573550@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3500DF42.36C72E30@crl.com> Joe wrote: > Good point but I can BUY a CD drive for less than it would cost me to > move my KSR-33! Actually if you're dealing with a 1702, it's small enough > that you can just write the code down! And paper is paper! The monitor for my Lawrence Livermore MST-80b resides on a pair of 1702s. But I have the manual which contains a source listing ;) And the system board has an empty 24 pin jumpered socket that can be mapped to accomodate a larger, more modern EPROM *and* access the monitor from there... I assume this is the sort of thing they had in mind when providing that socket in that way. I don't wish to tinker too much with this thing, so that is something I'll probably only ever do in a real pinch. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 6 15:11:50 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... References: <017301bd48e6$06dd8260$1af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <35006696.2557@digiweb.com> Andrew Davie wrote: > Ummmmm.... I was stunned tonight to look under the motherboard of this > machine and find that it is totally wire-wrapped. Amazingly neat, but > wire-wrapped and socketed - every single chip. Finding paths in this thing > is going to be very very time consuming! This computer must have been > extremely expensive in its day - the amount of work involved is incredible - > not having made anything like it, I'm only guessing... but I'd guess many > tens of man-hours. Actually, probably not. There were wirewrap machines which would do this in much less time (and human effort). I used to watch them on the production floor when I worked for Burroughs. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 6 23:51:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <199803070551.AA16234@world.std.com> <>I supose the solution is for him to build a 1702 reader (which is a lot <>simpler than the programmer!) and to read the EPROMs himself. Propose a slightly labor intensive but very practiceable method. Once the machine is operational step through the eporms using the front pannel and write down the data on a sheet of paper...it's only 1024 bytes. it can be then typed into another machine and stored, disassembled or whatever. Hand disassembly of 1024 bytes it's not that bad, I've done it in the past. Allison From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 7 02:08:56 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Apple IIc In-Reply-To: <199803061544.KAA03880@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > plug from Mouser? And hell, while I'm at it, where can I find a > terminal program with x/y/zmodem capabilities? Is there anything like > XIO2PC on the Atari for the Apple? Anyone know of a web page which Try looking for a copy of ProTerm. It was pretty much the standard terminal program for the Apple 2 in its heyday. Try posting a request for this program on comp.sys.apple2 on the UseNet. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 7 05:33:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> >Propose a slightly labor intensive but very practiceable method. > >Once the machine is operational step through the eporms using the front >pannel and write down the data on a sheet of paper...it's only 1024 bytes. >it can be then typed into another machine and stored, disassembled or >whatever. Hand disassembly of 1024 bytes it's not that bad, I've done >it in the past. Just received by email from the original owner... "When I got the DL8a there were only the 4 EPROMs. Not sure what's in them though, I found the what I assume was the code in the EPROMs when stepping through memory, but I couldn't be bothered trying to disassemble it. " I guess this implies that it was probably working, and that it would be safe to power-up and step through the memory myself. Any agreement here, or is this a bad idea? Cheers A From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 7 04:01:36 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is this getting out? Message-ID: <199803071246.MAA14166@mail.enterprise.net> It appears that what is happening is that the mail sever with the fulll mailbox is looking at the From: header of the message and thus sending the 'bounce' notification the the individual posters. This is, of course, better than bouncing the mail to the list as a whole but not as good as bouncing it to the list administrator who can then drop the offending account. Regards Pete From toonsband at email.msn.com Sat Mar 7 09:10:37 1998 From: toonsband at email.msn.com (Terry Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-90 Message-ID: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? Thanks. Terry Moore toonsband@msn.com From archive at navix.net Sat Mar 7 12:18:05 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: TRS-90 References: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Message-ID: <35018F5C.30160156@navix.net> Terry: Check ou the web address in my sig below... go check it out!! We buy computers like that all the time, as well as collect the software, etc. Once at the Web site, click on Archive Software, and you'll get all the info. you need on getting that computer to me. Thanks, CORD Terry Moore wrote: > Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, > and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and > would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. > > Terry Moore > toonsband@msn.com -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 7 10:41:05 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 10:33:09 pm Message-ID: <9803071641.AA05234@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/50a7865c/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 7 11:51:41 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Old computer still accessible on internet? In-Reply-To: References: <199803070103.UAA15919@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980307125141.0094a100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Aaron Christopher Finney typed: >The one that I like the best and is *free* is Tera Term. You can find it >at http://www.windows95.com in the network tools section. It has been >rock-solid and has a lot of nifty features, as well as all kinds of >emulations. In fact, I am using it right now, via my unix box at work.... Here's my two cents.... and it pertains! I use NetTerm -- it can be used as a standard Telnet client, and it can also be used as a standard telecommunications software (to connect to BBS's, etc.). AAMAF, it's the only one that I've found that works well with my Tandy 200 when I want to xfer files between my laptop and my WinNT box. (oh, and it does work very well for *nix boxen as well.) Hope this helps, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From jmg at iac.net Sat Mar 7 11:45:09 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: 8 bit ATARI disk compatability with standard DD/DD drives Message-ID: <199803071745.MAA15920@mail.iac.net> Several weeks ago I posted a question about whether a standard PC DD/DD drive could read/write ATARI floppy disks. I got one responce which was in the negative... however, at the time the comp.sys.atari.8bit faq wasn't available from my news server (both comp.sys.atari.8bit and news.answers). Well, it is now and I have a correct answer. Check: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/ Subject: 11.2) Can I read/write 8-bit Atari disks on an IBM-PC? There are several programs that allow an MS-DOS system to work with an Atari-format diskette. The following require a DOS and disk drive on the Atari end capable of the SS/DD 180K format: [... details snipped for brevity] Guess it's time to get DosEMU working again. ;-) --jmg From jmg at iac.net Sat Mar 7 11:59:15 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks In-Reply-To: <35007CDD.815ED884@bbtel.com> (message from Russ Blakeman on Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:46:53 -0600) Message-ID: <199803071759.MAA16201@mail.iac.net> Thanks for the info everyone! --jmg > Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:46:53 -0600 > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Cheap 5 1/4" DD/DD Floppy disks > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > > Well, this is the chepaest I've found them: > > > > > > http://oracle.uvision.com/prdct/923/78.html > > > $3.14 / box of 10 (plus shipping I presume) > > > > If anyone is the Pacific Northwest is interested in stocking up, SERF > > at UBC has a couple pallets full of Maxell DSDD 5.25" floppies in sealed > > boxes, and I'm sure you'd get a good deal. > > > > All Electronics in Southern California often had DSDD 5.25" floppies > > available as well. I think I was paying US$0.50 for a box of ten. No > > idea if they have any left - this was a couple of years ago. > > Try MEI Micro. They run a whole lot less and aren't surplus, all brand new. > Quill (office supply mailorder) also has 360k unformatted and formetted > floppies at times on sale. From archive at navix.net Sat Mar 7 13:50:26 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Acquired Laser 50 (mail trades DO work) Message-ID: <3501A500.50206B6B@navix.net> To Greg Troutman: I received the Laser 50 in the mail today... just as promised!! Thanks a ton, and I hope you received my end the bargain as well? To the list, I posted this here just as an example that there are successful trades that take place because of the correspondance on the list. Greg got in touch with me because I posted information about some Apple cards that I had. We talked a bit, and decided this would be a fair trade, neither of us had worries that the other wouldn't come through on their side of the deal. It turns out we both sent our hardware out the next morning, and 2 days later I received mine! Boy Greg, I hope you got your ok... let me know. Anyway, that's all. Just some publicity that trades can go right, after having some bad experiences in the past, this re-opened my eyes to the possibility of doing more often. Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:08:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <001101bd4979$eacb3ba0$21f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 02:34:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/b5f899e2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:25:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803071641.AA05234@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 7, 98 08:41:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2360 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/ac26d128/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 11:58:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980306221248.087767a0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 98 10:12:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/44740f90/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 7 12:13:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <000b01bd49bc$d1548b20$2ff438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 7, 98 10:33:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/c7df7a13/attachment.ksh From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 7 19:00:02 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980307190002.007b3550@ibmhelp.com> What do you think? 630Q2-A2/D2 /F2 (6) USED WORKING MICROVAX 8-SIO $ 285 Davie Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Mar 7 17:21:22 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Vacation Finds References: <199803060802.AAA11465@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3501D675.29C1@goldrush.com> From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Vacation Finds... >> >> Have been on vacation since Friday and still have a couple days to >> go... From the thrift store outlook in the area things are improving >> again (I guess people are starting their pre-spring cleaning) >> >> What I passed up on... >> PET 8032, 4040 dual drive. >Agggggh! I'd *love* to replace my long-lost 8032. [snip!] >Anyway, rambling aside, where are you on vacation and is the PET still there? >-ethan That was in Modesto, CA, (My vacation this time is closer to home). I think the proboability of those units being there are good (since most of the local 'thrifters' snag the IBM, Mac, and Amiga machines that show up). I would have gotten them myself but those PETs take up alot of shelf-space (which is limited for me cause I have several PETs already), and I was pretending to be strong (of course if it were an original PET, an 8x50 dual drive or a B-128 it would have been bought. :) That chain of thrift stores (they call themselves Thrift Center Thrift Stores) are interesting, on Wednesdays and Saturdays they have 1/2 price days and with their sometimes low prices you can pick up some really inexpensive hardware, they also strangely have been a good source for Atari 800s. Yesterday on our travels, we took off to Sacramento (California's state capitol) and discovered in our wanderings SEVERAL THRIFT STORES (Many within a square mile on just one street.) But given the time we didn't stop, *sigh*, but we now know where to look next time. We did stop at a warehouse sized used book store (on Power Inn Road) most of the stuff is discontinued school texts, some assorted stuff... Not much computer book pickings there unless you have an IBM, Apple II, or a Mac (finding quality older computer books almost the most challenging task only after finding software.) Been wandering the valley for most of this last week and plan to rest out at least today and possibly tomorrow before work on Monday. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Mar 7 17:40:47 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PET Discussion (Was: Vacation Finds) References: <199803070802.AAA20567@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3501DB03.17E2@goldrush.com> From: Joe Subject: RE: Vacation Finds... >I just bought CMB 8032 complete with a 4040 drive and CMB (rebadged Diablo >630) printer and a Novation CAT accoustic MODEM. Modems for the PET are probably the hardest thing to find (I am still looking) as they had IEEE-488 interfaces. > I got all the original >disks and manuals and everything else with it including the warranty >papers. I got Commodore BASIC, SuperSpell, Word Pro 5 Plus Wordpro was IT for PET word processors those of you familiar with Easyscript for the 64 or Plus Script for the Plus/4 would recognize the simliarity. > something called Jinsam and a bunch of other stuff that I haven't figured out > yet. Believe it or not, I bought this from a NASA auction last week. > Joe Jinsam is a database management program, and I remember the ads extolling it's use by NASA, so I don't doubt it. I read about another NASA application for PETs in an early Micro magazine (sometime in 1980) something to do with launch countdown of un-manned missiles. As I have said before, it my not have been a graphics superstar but it had the interfacing (IEEE-488 and parallel user port) for just about anything scientific. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 7 20:08:55 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980307190002.007b3550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 7, 98 07:00:02 pm Message-ID: <9803080208.AA09615@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 989 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980307/2d876f8b/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 7 23:48:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Is it worth it? Message-ID: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> <630Q2-A2/D2 /F2 (6) USED WORKING MICROVAX 8-SIO $ 285 Out of their cotton pickin minds! Way to high. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 8 01:09:35 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> Message-ID: I've had an HP IPC near the bottom of my wish list for a while, and I might be able to get one. The owner wasn't impressed with my first offer, but there may still be hope. Does anybody else have one of these? I've never actually seen one, but the thought of an early portable Unix box appeals to me. I seem to remember they ran an early (1.0?) version of HP/UX on a 68K (?) from ROM (?). Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. BTW, I also saw a Mentor Graphics box today. It said something like series 400, model 425. I vaguely remember that Mentor sold rebadged Apollos with their CAD software. I was never crazy about Apollo Domain OS from a programmer's perspective, but I do remember it being fairly innovative/interesting at the time, so I'm thinking about getting the box. Attempts to talk me out of it are warmly welcomed. Thanks, Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 8 01:31:37 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: DEC PC 100+ FS/TRADE Message-ID: <35024958.54330224@bbtel.com> I have a like new, great condition DEC PC 100+ (Rainbow?) with Seagate St412 10mb hard disk and dual floppy. One problem...NO monitor, NO keyboard. I'm sure these can be located though. The power supply case indicates a manufacture date of December 14, 1983. The unit looks as though it just came out of the box, other than the little DEC plate in the upper left corner of the front missing. The other one that says "100+" is intact though. I have no idea why this is missing. Make me an offer. Cash or trade or a combination. I'm always looking for PC components such as internal/external cdroms, sound cards, SIMMs (30 or 72 pin, parity if possible). Best offer gets this one. Email me directly. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 8 05:34:27 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <010101bd4a86$2d24c720$12f438cb@nostromo> Today I found the motherload S100 system with prototype of Signetics 2650 processor board - this board later went into commercial production - homebrew video display for the s100 system - twin floppy drives, video card, memory cards, etc. - prototype of production 16K RAM card - additional memory cards - full documentation of all work - S100 speech card - about 8 S100 disk controllers (various versions of prototypes, I guess) Heaps of 2650 software, including FORTH, ACOS (casette operating system) and about 30 other tapes chokka, too much to list. - I know it has 8080A disassembler, PIPBUG monitors, etc etc. - i have source code and listings for all these languages and OS Mattel Aquarius, with ALL software (apparently) for this machine - SCHEMATICS and technical documentation for the aquarius!! - cassette drive - printer (x 2) using colour pens, i think - various RAM and ROM cartridges Mattel Aquarius II in original box lead on an Aquarius disk drive - will chase tomorrow. prototype Aquarius cartridges, including 16K RAM, and a teletext dongle (complete) C64 grey model - Prototype (functional) C64 modem - programmer's reference guide (I was looking for one of these) 4 x 1702A EPROMS that I was after! (whoo hooo) original IBM 10Meg hard drive interesting thermal(?) printers - silver paper with Aluminium that was sparked off - have 34? and 80 column versions (80 col new in box) lots more things that I haven't unpacked yet. A good day. Cheers A From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 8 11:04:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <010101bd4a86$2d24c720$12f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 8, 98 10:34:27 pm Message-ID: <9803081704.AA10725@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/b5e93f1f/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 8 14:23:46 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. Message-ID: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say "DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". Anyway, the previous owner gave me a userid and password, so I started it up - It's all menuized. Cute. The MACHINE IN USE light is burned out too. Oh - On the CE panel thee's a LAMP TEST button. It turns on ALL the lamps, not the the CE-panel lamps. Also, on power-on, you have to push LOAD to read in the bootstrap. Then supply it with a username and password. I was tld MJR was the system manager - Is that standard on all IBM stuff? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:55:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 8, 98 12:23:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1410 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/ab3064bc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 14:49:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <9803081704.AA10725@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 8, 98 09:04:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/155709f8/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:49:41 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU Message-ID: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, despite your warnings, I pulled my AT motherboard out of its case and put it into the PS/2 tower case. It fits reasonably well physically, but I AM having a bit of trouble with the power supply conversion. I have pretty much figured out how to wire the psu to the motherboard, but the problem is the power good line. What is it, and what would I need to hook it up to for the PSU and MB to think that the power is good? (this is line 1 of P8 on most AT motherboards) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Mar 8 13:06:47 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU In-Reply-To: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803082357.SAA19686@mail.cgocable.net> > OK, despite your warnings, I pulled my AT motherboard out of its case > and put it into the PS/2 tower case. It fits reasonably well > physically, but I AM having a bit of trouble with the power supply > conversion. I have pretty much figured out how to wire the psu > to the motherboard, but the problem is the power good line. What > is it, and what would I need to hook it up to for the PSU and MB to > think that the power is good? (this is line 1 of P8 on most AT > motherboards) Huh? What is that AT motherboard you're using in that PS/2 60? Well, There problems of card cage size and height, making new standoffs and all is not worth trouble doing. :( That is why I suggested this whole board upgrade by a company in this PS/2 60 case or different machine case that will take standard AT boards. Trust me, I have done few hackings to nonstandard cases to take standard boards, NOT FUN! Just my comments. Jason D. > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 8 17:39:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU In-Reply-To: <19980308224942.5956.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 8, 98 02:49:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/56af8bcd/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 8 18:57:21 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog Message-ID: <35253cf4.762889657@hoser> I've been revising my web site a bit recently. One of the things I've added is the entire 1978 Tandy Computers catalog which features such things as the IMSAI 8080, Sol-20, Vector 1, etc. I don't know about you, but aside from this one catalog, I had no idea that Tandy ever sold anything like this. At any rate, the whole thing has been scanned and put on my web site. I tried to keep the page images small so they don't take forever to load, but it means that you can only read the tag lines and prices. Still, the pictures and prices are fun to look at. Take a look and let me know what you think. If there is sufficient interest, I might go back and scan the pages at a higher resolution and link the bigger images to the current ones. Also, let me know if you see any glaring errors on my site; I'm still tracking down some minor formatting problems, but most of it should be fine. Just pick the "classic computers" link on the first page and go from there to see the catalog. Hope you enjoy looking through it as much as I did! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 8 19:47:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: PSU Message-ID: <19980309014757.7461.qmail@hotmail.com> I think you guys were right after all. It's a futile endeavour. I just trashed the AT case and the entire PS/2 system except the drives, cards, and ribbon cables. I couldn't stand it anymore. I will pick up another case, there's plenty left that are not necessarily PS/2. The thing did have an expansion card that had 2 MB RAM on it, I will ship it to anyone who wants it. > >The power good line is a signal from the PSU to the motherboard that >indicates that all the PSU lines are at the right voltages. If you can't >find a suitable signal on the PS/2 supply, then try connecting it to a >+5V line (red wire, normally). That should get the machine running. > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Mar 8 20:45:40 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:35 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <01bd4b05$72eb8800$LocalHost@hotze> >> > original IBM 10Meg hard drive >> >> Did IBM make this? I thought it was Seagate... > >Well, there certainly were Seagate/shugart (I can't remember if it was >after the name change...) drives with 'IBM' moulded into the front panel. >I have a few lying about... Yeah, but it could also be a Winchester drive, (external?) I think that it was the first hard drive to use technology still used today. >> >> Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) >> > >-tony > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 8 22:17:48 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Daniel, Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are original disks for the S 34. Joe At 12:23 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over >first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my >head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say >"DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" >But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase >reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". >Anyway, the previous owner gave me a userid and password, so I started >it up - It's all menuized. Cute. The MACHINE IN USE light is burned out too. >Oh - On the CE panel thee's a LAMP TEST button. It turns on ALL the lamps, >not the the CE-panel lamps. Also, on power-on, you have to push LOAD to >read in the bootstrap. Then supply it with a username and password. >I was tld MJR was the system manager - Is that standard on all IBM stuff? >------- > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 8 21:51:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <01bd4b05$72eb8800$LocalHost@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 9, 98 05:45:40 am Message-ID: <9803090351.AA10134@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980308/cceb94ad/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 8 21:59:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog Message-ID: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> References: <199803080548.AA12261@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Doug, At 01:09 AM 3/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >I've had an HP IPC near the bottom of my wish list for a while, and I >might be able to get one. The owner wasn't impressed with my first offer, >but there may still be hope. > >Does anybody else have one of these? Yeap, I have two of them. I love them. > I've never actually seen one, but Then go look at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp9807.htm". >the thought of an early portable Unix box appeals to me. I seem to >remember they ran an early (1.0?) version of HP/UX on a 68K (?) from ROM >(?). Only a ****VERY*** minimal system was run out of the built-in ROM. Usually HP-UX was run from an external hard drive or the built-in floppy drive. There was a plug-in ROM available that contained a complete HP-UX system. It was called the "Software Engineering ROM". It was optional and VERY rare. Disk based BASIC was available for the IPC and was also available in a plug-in ROM. > >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! Joe > >BTW, I also saw a Mentor Graphics box today. It said something like >series 400, model 425. I vaguely remember that Mentor sold rebadged >Apollos with their CAD software. I was never crazy about Apollo Domain OS >from a programmer's perspective, but I do remember it being fairly >innovative/interesting at the time, so I'm thinking about getting the box. >Attempts to talk me out of it are warmly welcomed. > >Thanks, >Doug > > From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Mar 8 22:23:44 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> References: <13338109500.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 >but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are >original disks for the S 34. Yep, it has a big 8" drive up front, almost identical in appearance to the floppy in my Series/1... >I went and started the System/34 yesterday... Gave it a good looking-over >first. The PSU is really interesting - There's a transfomer bigger than my >head, wires about a quarter-inch thick, and stickers all over that say >"DANGER! 580 VOLTS!" and "LINE POWER HERE WITH MACHINE POWERED OFF" >But I found one little note inside which makes me think that it's single-phase >reading "INPUT POWER 208V/1PH". Hehe... I love all those warning labels... They are EVERYWHERE! Maybe I should try counting all of them that are in my S/1. BTW, I'm almost finished converting the CPU on my S/1. It runs on 120V now, I tested it a few minutes ago, now all I have to do is replace the blower fan and put it back in the rack. And then on to the disk drives... And I have a System/34 question... How do you tell which model it is? I've looked at the labels I could find on the S/34 at a local museum, but I couldn't find anything. Just the 5340 signs. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 8 22:45:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Terminals FS/Trade Message-ID: <350373D5.1C3CBC39@bbtel.com> Have three older terminals, condition unknown but in good physical shape. They go to the big mainframe in the sky if I don't get an interested party by March 15th.... Digital VT100, no keyboard Digital VT220, no keyboard Visual 102 with keyboard I'm going to ask $5 for each plus shipping to more or less cover the time involved in packing and running these to the shipper, but otherwise they're here and awaiting some interested foster home to contact me about them. Neither weighs a lot but due to the glass crt they aren't featherwight either. COntact me directly. I'm in the process of finishing my new shop and these are NOT going into it and taking up much needed space. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 8 22:45:50 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog In-Reply-To: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> References: <199803090359.AA16076@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35276c26.774971590@hoser> Well, the return address on the catalog (which you may be able to read in the scanned image on my web page) is "Tandy Computers, 1500 One Tandy Center, Fort Worth, Texas 76102". Somebody at Tandy must have thought they sold these systems! There's an order blank included, and you could order by phone or by mail. Inside the back cover is a complete TRS-80 system. The catalog also includes the (then standard) array of electronic parts and books carried by Radio Shack. I bought my TRS-80 in the Radio Shack in North Platte, Nebraska; as I recall, certain regular stores (i.e. not "Computer Centers") also got the TRS-80 early on. Take a look at the catalog (www.inetnebr.com/~bill_r), and then tell me I'm crazy. My primary purpose was not and is not to prove whether or not any machines were actually shipped (although I would be interested to know for sure), but to find out if anyone else has ever seen this catalog. This is the only copy I've ever seen. So you were involved in the RS repair centers, huh? I about drove them nuts because I bought one of the very early "Expansion Interfaces" with disk drives and memory in it, and it ended up going back to the repair center in (if I remember correctly) Des Moines at _least_ ten times because of problems with bus noise crashing it. When it started out, it had just a plain ribbon cable between the EI and the CPU. Then they added the "buffered EI cable", and finally, the little DIN connector hack along side the buffered cable, which seemed to actually fix the thing. They had the thing more than I did for the first year; they always kept it for like 3 weeks, then sent it back and it still didn't work. After the first round of that, I started having the store manager help me unbox it and set it up right in the store to see if it was fixed. If not, back it went. I ended up on a first-name basis with a couple people at the repair center (when I wasn't calling them worse things ;-). Finally, out of total frustration, I called Tandy's home office, and after fighting my way through many layers of assistants, receptionists, etc, I found myself talking to (I swear it's true) Charles Tandy! I told him the whole sad story, explained that I loved the machine, but I was at the end of my rope on the whole deal, and wondered what he thought I should do. He said he would look into it and see what was going on. I thought "Yeah - right", but later that day I got a call from the repair center manager who apologized profusely for all the trouble, told me that they had gotten a new fix for the problem, and that my computer would be back and working right within a couple of days. I later got a letter of apology for the experience signed by Mr. Tandy; I wish I knew where it was - it might be in my old TRS-80 boxes. (I was 14 at the time, and you don't think about hanging on to things like that at that age.) And in a bit of Twilight Zone, I got a call from the former manager of the Radio Shack store a couple of days ago; he had moved to Lincoln, Nebraska several years ago as I did, and knowing I work a lot with computers, he thought I might be able to help him with a Windows 95 problem he was having. <*argh *thud> I have the old TRS-80 voice synthesizer (the case is a particle-board box, spray-painted "TRS-80 silver"! Wonder how many of those they sold?), the voice recognition unit (with the CB-style "push-to-talk" microphone), the X-10/Plug-n-power interface, and the original modem. I once met a man at the University of Rolla, Missouri, where I was taking a summer class, who showed me how he had reverse-engineered the TRS-80 system ROMs and discovered a multi-tasking kernel built in. I took the information home and tried it out, and it was true! All you had to do was load a machine language routine into memory, and then call the "start task" address with the address of your routine and its priority in the correct registers. There were also "suspend task" and "kill task" functions. A friend and I wrote all kinds of weird little things, like an on-screen clock that was always displayed, no matter what else was running, subliminal message programs, etc. Do you know if anyone else has ever published this feature? Yikes - sorry - got a little long-winded... On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:59:34 -0500, you wrote: >Now it's possible that one of the independently owned dealer stores held >and advertized other machines. Even the Radio Shack computer centers >didn't start opening until the beginning of 78. The trs-80 was mid '77 >and Tandy did nothing in computers before that. > >Allison -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 00:04:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, tapes or anything else included. Joe From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 8 23:58:22 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. > > Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 00:02:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: 1978 Tandy Computers Catalog In-Reply-To: <35276c26.774971590@hoser> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > Well, the return address on the catalog (which you may be able to read > in the scanned image on my web page) is "Tandy Computers, 1500 One > Tandy Center, Fort Worth, Texas 76102". Somebody at Tandy must have > thought they sold these systems! There's an order blank included, and > you could order by phone or by mail. I've found that I can still buy parts from Tandy for GRiDs that I've had for years. Give them a call, order the IMSAI by part number, and see what happens! -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 00:07:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in > printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these > computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's > a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, > tapes or anything else included. I was thinking about getting one of these myself, and I checked and found both ribbons and tapes still available (I think it was on Epson's Canadian site). I don't think there's a bid enough market for these things to come up with a pricing guide. Most people still give this stuff away for free since it's worthless to them. I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. -- Doug From gzozman at escape.ca Mon Mar 9 00:48:42 1998 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: TRS-90 References: <000101bd49db$311ea7c0$18f42499@terry> Message-ID: <350390CA.BF1743FF@escape.ca> Terry: If you still have the Model II available, I would be more than happy to add this machine to my collection. I would be willing to pay a nominal amount for your time to package the system up; does $50.00 sound reasonable? In addition, I would pay all shipping costs, and would pay you with a US money order. Please let me know if this is agreeable to you. Thanks! Grant Zozman gzozman@escape.ca Terry Moore wrote: > Dear Friends: I have a TRS-80 Model II, expansion bay with one extra drive, > and a daisy wheel printer. I don't exactly use this equipment much and > would like to ger rid of it. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. > > Terry Moore > toonsband@msn.com From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 02:11:02 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Matell/Radofin Aquarius II pictures up Message-ID: <001f01bd4b32$f56c37c0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The hitherto unseen Matell Aquarius II machine is pictured on the top menu option on http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/ Enjoy! A PS: I have TWO Aquarius II machines. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 05:55:21 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <007901bd4b52$3d91aac0$2ef438cb@nostromo> I'm surprised the IBM drive caused such comment. All I was re-iterating was what the guy said "an original IBM 10Meg drive" - and as I saw IBM embossed on the front black plastic cover part, I figured thats what it was. It's just a 5" or so hard drive, and nothing special. Unless I'm mistaken, which is possible, as I don't know my stuff! Add to the list from the other night a mint Z80 Big Board II Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Motherload >> >> > original IBM 10Meg hard drive >> >> >> >> Did IBM make this? I thought it was Seagate... From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 05:57:57 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics Message-ID: <008401bd4b52$9aad6be0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The beast runs OK, just a couple of LEDs out on the front panel, it seems. A brief brief play showed stepping through worked OK - will play with it more, later. At least the PSU is OK - next to check the EPROMs. Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:12:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <00aa01bd4b54$92f97540$2ef438cb@nostromo> >> > S100 system with prototype of Signetics 2650 processor board >> > - this board later went into commercial production >> >> Who sold it, out of curiosity? >> >> I remember a _Radio-Electronics_ (or was it _Popular Electronics_?) article >> from '76 or '77 that had construction plans for a 2650-based machine. >> I don't remember it being S-100 based, though. I will put the whole story up on my website as soon as I can. The design was published either in Electronics Australia or ETI, and basically the gent was ripped off. However, he told me they sold perhaps 100 of these boards. I have lots of software for it, both on floppy and casette!! and this includes... wait for it.... an 8080A emulator. Bizarre. Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:32:23 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload Message-ID: <00c201bd4b57$6b7660c0$2ef438cb@nostromo> The 2650 card is called a SBC-2650, and the manual does not mention the vendor, but does mention Microbyte as the supplier of the software (eg: ACOS operating system). >> - S100 speech card >By who? Votrax, by any chance? Nup, board is labeled "Electric Mouth - 1 NETRONICS R&D Ltd. (c)1981" >> 4 x 1702A EPROMS that I was after! (whoo hooo) >Well, if you run out of these, they're readily available here in >North America, at $1.95 each, from Jameco Its not so much the value of them, but that I wanted some and *there they were* Cheers A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 9 06:42:00 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: what are these cards? Message-ID: <00d801bd4b58$c4004840$2ef438cb@nostromo> I picked up two cards rather than having them trashed. They're approximately square in size about mmmh....20cm to a side. I counted about 73 or 74 pins on the connector on one side of each card, the other side a solid block connect. The 1st card is labeled "Q050 DUAL TVT" and has a MCM2708(?) eprom and a 10 pin output port, whilst the 2nd is labeled "Q025 16K RAM". Were these worth rescuing? I can do images if really necessary. Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 07:46:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980309000416.30674184@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> At 12:07 AM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I just found two Epson HX-20 computers with expansion units, plug-in >> printers and plug-in micro-cassette drives. I've seen lots of these >> computers but not the other items. Can anyone tell me about them? What's >> a setup like this worth? Everthing is in PERFECT condtion, but no books, >> tapes or anything else included. > >I was thinking about getting one of these myself, and I checked and found >both ribbons and tapes still available (I think it was on Epson's Canadian >site). I don't think there's a bid enough market for these things to >come up with a pricing guide. Most people still give this stuff away for >free since it's worthless to them. > >I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an >HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. > Doug, I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 9 07:49:04 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980308232705.08777980@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980309074904.47670342@intellistar.net> At 11:58 PM 3/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> >Any additional info (and offers to give me one) appreciated. >> >> Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Fat chance! > >FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days ago. Joe From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 9 07:09:09 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: WTB: Tandy 2500 XL Message-ID: <01bd4b5c$8cc5f560$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. I just read about a Tandy 2500 XL with a 286 10MHz, 2MB RAM, MS-DOS and DeskMate GUI built into ROM. So, if anyone has one of these that they'd be willing to part with.... Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 07:54:47 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <199803041649.LAA83684@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3503F4A7.3F859AAF@cnct.com> Les Berry wrote: > > >Hmm? It must be the contrast between the white 3B2 cases and the black > >fronts of the 6300s, because I've always thought the 6300 was as ugly > >as party politics. The 7300 (and 3B1), now that's another story. > > Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black > inserts, etc.) Check for the suffix WGS after 6300. The 6300 WGS (_much_ more PC compatible than the original) had that color scheme, the original had a mostly black front. Does it have the DB-25 video connector? I'll accept an interim color change that I might have missed -- I only dealt with AT&T equipment when the WGS systems were just appearing and the original 6300 and 6300+ had been discontinued -- but the store kept so much old stuff in inventory that I shouldn't have missed anything like that. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 08:47:21 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <34FD13C5.8EFDFFD@cnct.com> <199803040341.WAA62732@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19980304182818.0088ae70@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <350400F9.7B21D0F4@cnct.com> John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > At 10:53 am 3/4/98, you wrote: > >At 03:41 AM 3/4/98 -0500, Ward wrote: > >>> >clone? > >> > >>The 6300 ran MS-DOS. The 6300+ ran Unix > > > > Ward, > > > > Are you sure about that? I looked at a 6300+ in a trift store last week > >and it ran DOS. Or was it possible to erase the UNIX and install DOS only? > > More precisely, it could run either AND both. I guess I should have mentioned that, I just didn't think of it. Just like I _could_ cripple this machine I type on and run Windows 95 (or NT), but Linux does what I want. > > To DOS, the 6300+ was more of a fast XT. It had access to extended memory, > but not in the AT-compatible way. > > Where it came into its own, however, was running Unix. Part of the Unix > install was something called Simultask. This let you run DOS under Unix, > very nicely. > > The closest modern equivalent is Merge under SCO Unix which, I believe, is > descended from SImultask. Merge is directly descended from Simultask, which is why I remembered it as DOSMerge (later OSMerge, then Merge) 1.0. When I first played with it on a customers machine, SCO had just brought out VP/ix, which at the time (1989-90) was superior. Things changed during the next couple of years. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 9 09:19:29 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Demography? References: <199803011858.KAA23222@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <35040881.DC3931C0@cnct.com> Well, everybody else has been tossing bio's in here, so what the hell. I'm pushing 43, recently married for the third time (second time from the government's POV), my wife and I have about 50 computers kicking around (not sure about the status of some of Lisa's little handhelds that she keeps buying because they're "cute"). I didn't start out planning to collect obsolete computers, but I have this problem about throwing things away. I got involved with the TRS-80 not long after I got out of the USAF in 1978. Wound up working for Tandy from 80-86 is training/tech support at the retail level. Accumulated a few systems during those years. Hooked on Unix from the first (pre)release of Xenix for the Model 16, so these days I'm a sysadmin (AIX usually) presently between contracts. Coco 1/2/3, 4p, Mod 2, 6000HD, Mod 100 (3)+DVI, 1000TL/2 are what I have now -- have owned two Mod Ones, two Mod 16s and a Tandy 2000 in the past, but as Ben Franklin said, three moves equals one fire and I've moved more than three times. Have three AT&T Unix PCs, two work and the other is parts. A Sun 4/360 with Solaris 2.4 that I'm trying to get Linux working on. Atari 68k boxes, a 520 ST and a 1040 ST. Several TI 99/4A machines, one still shrink-wrapped -- my wife credits a cassette-based algebra tutorial for that machine with getting her through the math requirement so she could get her nursing degree. Miscellaneous Intel boxen that I mostly run Linux on, though there are a couple that are mostly lab rats for whatever I feel like doing to them OS-wise. Who knows what I'll come back from the TCF with this year? I've without doubt left a few off this list, as they aren't all where I can see them from here. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Mar 9 09:17:33 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. Message-ID: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Daniel, > > Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 > but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are > original disks for the S 34. > > Joe I don't know about Daniel's machine but every System/34 I've ever seen does. It takes them either singly or in "magazines" of ten diskettes. I recommend that anyone with a S/34 tries to get hold of some of the empty magazines - or even full ones. AFAIK, IBM's idea was you kept yor software, backups etc. in magazines, unless it was 3 disks or fewer. I imagine most people did what people nowadays will be forced to do - keep the disks in conventional boxes and load the magazines immediately before insertion into the S/34. Philip From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 09:33:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338318829.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It uses ONLY 8" floppies! What do you have origionals of? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 09:36:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13338319434.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Model # of S/34?] Mine is written on the IBM shipping info card floating around on the inside. But I forgot what it was. BTW, This thing is not too heavy! I pushed it across the room by myself without too much trouble, just to see if I could do it. You can move them, provding there's not stairs involved... ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 9 09:51:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: value of Sol 20 and Imsai 8080 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980309095102.00998eb0@pc> "Bob Wood" wrote: >I am in the market for a Sol 20 and and/or an Imsai 8080. A few weeks ago, a couple Altair systems on ebay.com went for more than $1500 each. However, an IMSAI was recently sold for $126 on comp.os.cpm. Prices are all over the map, from $0 to $1500 it seems. Aren't you the guy who's always posting messages to newsgroups, saying you're looking for these machines? Are you a collector or an arbitrageur? Judging by author profiles at www.dejanews.com, it looks like you deal in all sorts of collectables. Can you tell us more about your business? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 09:57:36 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338319434.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > BTW, This thing is not too heavy! I pushed it across the room by myself > without too much trouble, just to see if I could do it. > You can move them, provding there's not stairs involved... That just mean it has good casters... Not heavy? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 10:26:31 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Wanted for the "carcass" Message-ID: It looks like I am now the proud owner of a LINC-8 carcass - stripped of everything but the front panel, backplane, scope, supplies, and core stack. The LINC-8s are interesting machines in that they are a PDP-8s (staight-8s) with strapped on LINC processors. They were made for a few years in the 1960s until the PDP-12 came about. I am looking for ANY of the small DEC Flip-Chips in the R, S, B, G, A, or W category (I do not yet have numbers). These are much smaller than the more common modules found in later PDP-8s and -11s, but still have the familiar plastic handles found on the M series boards. These have no ICs on them, but may have weird looking hybrid grey SIP packages (at least I have seen some on R107 modules). Any leads would be appreciated. Thank you. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Mar 9 11:09:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Off on my travels... Message-ID: <9802098894.AA889492565@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I have, at some what short notice, been told I am going to Taiwan tomorrow (for two weeks). :-( I shall be able to redirect my e-mail, but past experience of such things shows that I usually get my list subscription forcibly set to "postpone" after about a week under such conditions. However, (and this is the real point of the message), I shall probably have some space for souvenirs on the return journey. Does anyone on the list know of _any_ Taiwannese computer equipment which could be considered a classic? (Preferably not a PC clone!) Philip. From lfb107 at psu.edu Mon Mar 9 11:54:06 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803091756.MAA67824@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> At 08:54 AM 3/9/98 -0500, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >> Well my 3B2 and 6300 cases match exactly. (Brown bottom, white tops, black >> inserts, etc.) > >Check for the suffix WGS after 6300. The 6300 WGS (_much_ more PC >compatible than the original) had that color scheme, the original had >a mostly black front. Does it have the DB-25 video connector? I'll >accept an interim color change that I might have missed -- I only >dealt with AT&T equipment when the WGS systems were just appearing >and the original 6300 and 6300+ had been discontinued -- but the >store kept so much old stuff in inventory that I shouldn't have >missed anything like that. I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of the drives in the system. Sorry the above is so confusing. Les >-- >Ward Griffiths >Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? >WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 9 07:36:49 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Motherload In-Reply-To: <007901bd4b52$3d91aac0$2ef438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199803091827.NAA02873@mail.cgocable.net> > I'm surprised the IBM drive caused such comment. > All I was re-iterating was what the guy said "an original IBM 10Meg drive" - > and as I saw IBM embossed on the front black plastic cover part, I figured > thats what it was. It's just a 5" or so hard drive, and nothing special. > Unless I'm mistaken, which is possible, as I don't know my stuff! > > Add to the list from the other night a mint Z80 Big Board II > > Cheers > A > A sightly clue: IBM always makes hard drives black. Is your 10mb juset natural finished ie bare metal? If so, this is not IBM's. More likely: CMI, Seagate common usually or Tandon? Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 9 14:05:30 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Not too heavy?] No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are air. ------- From william at ans.net Mon Mar 9 14:55:39 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > [Not too heavy?] > > No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are > air. Well, that is true. Most big IBMs are that way. IBM still managed to use some very heavy parts - heavy gauge steel chassis, big stiff transformers, and disk drives with really big motors. Still, once a computer tips the scale over 300 or so pounds, I consider it heavy. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 9 15:35:43 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: References: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980309153543.008e4340@ibmhelp.com> At 03:55 PM 3/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >> [Not too heavy?] >> >> No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are >> air. > >Well, that is true. Most big IBMs are that way. IBM still managed to use >some very heavy parts - heavy gauge steel chassis, big stiff transformers, >and disk drives with really big motors. > >Still, once a computer tips the scale over 300 or so pounds, I consider it >heavy. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > Heavy? Not if you add the optional System/34 Transport Attachment (shoulder harness/hernia belt), IBM PN 74G5666. Sorry, couldn't resist. David dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon Mar 9 17:27:35 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... Message-ID: <19980309152735.161afdda.in@mail.pressstart.com> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:50:19 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell said: Tim said about bit-rot >> In the first stages of bit rot, single bits go "flaky" and will not >> read reliably. So the first thing to do is read the 1702A's multiple >> times and see if any are going bad in this way. Of course, be sure >> to save the results of each read pass... Tony replied with: >With _most_ EPROMs, bit-rot causes 0's to turn into 1's, but not the >reverse, since the fully erased (=discharged) state of the chip is full >of FF's. Thus if you start to detect flakyness, you read the chip n times >and logically AND the dumps. This is not hard to do given another >computer, of course. Tony, this didn't sound right to me so I looked it up and my book is saying that 1702A (and the 5204) erase to all 0s. Is this wrong? And I thought I'd pass along this neat table that I found on DataI/O web page while looking for device code for my Series 22. I reduced it on the xerox machine and taped it to my programmer. DEVICE DECIMAL DECIMAL HEX HEX HEX SIZE NO. BITS ADDR RANGE NO. BYTES CHECKSUM(1) =========================================================================== 2708 1K X 8 8K 0 ---- 3FF 400 3FC00 2716 2K X 8 16K 0 ---- 7FF 800 7F800 2732 4K X 8 32K 0 ---- FFF 1000 FF000 2764 8K X 8 64K 0 --- 1FFF 2000 1FE000 27128 16K X 8 128K 0 --- 3FFF 4000 3FC000 27256 32K X 8 256K 0 --- 7FFF 8000 7F8000 27512 64K X 8 512K 0 --- FFFF 10000 FF0000 27010 128K X 8 1M 0 -- 1FFFF 20000 1FE0000 27020 256K X 8 2M 0 -- 3FFFF 40000 3FC0000 27040 512K X 8 4M 0 -- 7FFFF 80000 7F80000 27080 1024K X 8 8M 0 -- FFFFF 100000 FF00000 2048K X 8 16M 0 - 1FFFFF 200000 1FE00000 4096K X 8 32M 0 - 3FFFFF 400000 3FC00000 8192K X 8 64M 0 - 7FFFFF 800000 7F800000 (1) Represents the checksum of a blank EPROM where memory locations contain FF hex. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 18:00:47 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? 2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, and I am interested in something that had a processor that interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) These are for my personal investigations, but I have a feeling that many new ideas have been tried before to some extent. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 9 19:16:13 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history References: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3504945D.3A174E65@crl.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. > 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? Hmm. Corvus Omninet? -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From david at mather.com Mon Mar 9 19:08:36 1998 From: david at mather.com (David Mather) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338368320.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199803100114.RAA31427@mxu4.u.washington.edu> > > No, it's just actually not as heavy as it looks. Most of the insides are > air. > ------- It was built that way so they could sell them to businesses who in those days wouldn't believe that a smaller box was a proper computer. David From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 9 19:47:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803100147.AA26655@world.std.com> <2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD < machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? Too broad a question. What is a desktop system? I can come up with several that might surprize you. <3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly < unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am < interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, < and I am interested in something that had a processor that < interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing < (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) IS there one or three questions in there? yes there have been some very unusual machines like transputers, connection machines, vector processors, Turing machines. the latter half of your question is too broad. My z80 s-s100 crate would qualify as the OS was distributed over several z80s but only on had the user interface. The Vax-11/780 had a qbuss PDP-11 as a diagnostic fromt pannel. An xterm on an eithernet to a server could even qualify. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 21:41:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > All right, I have another bombing of questions and theories for y'all. > 1)What was the first network server product for the IBM PC architecture? I think one of the first cards IBM produced for the PC allowed it to be used as a smart terminal for their mainframes. Does this count? > 2)Let's take the GRiD server as an example (I have never seen a GRiD > machine, BTW). How does it differ from any desktop system? GRiD used to have a modem based service called GRiD Central. AFAIK, the GRiD Server was a little box that let you have your own local area GRiD Central. It was basically a fileserver for GRiD-OS, I think. > 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly > unusual architecture? What I am looking for is twofold: I am > interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, Sure, quite a few neural nets were implemented in hardware. Hecht-Neilsen (sp?) comes to mind as somebody still in that biz (I think). Interesting tid-bit: Carver Mead is famous for many things, including implementing an artificial cochlea in silicon. I've heard that he couldn't find anybody very interested in commercializing this invention, so he used the technology to produce one of those "glide pads" used in notebook computers today. > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing > (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) It used to be fairly standard practice to have an I/O processor separate from the main processor, if that's what you mean. > These are for my personal investigations, but I have a feeling that > many new ideas have been tried before to some extent. Unless you're looking to make a fortune licensing patents, why would that stop you from doing anything? -- Doug From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 9 22:24:00 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <19980309152735.161afdda.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Mar 9, 98 03:27:35 pm Message-ID: <9803100424.AA12978@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980309/10d9f95b/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 22:26:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803100147.AA26655@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > yes there have been some very unusual machines like transputers, > connection machines, vector processors, Turing machines. Nobody has ever made a Turing machine (it's that nasty infinitely long tape that keeps getting in the way), but that reminds me of something I've been looking for. Didn't Danny Hillis make a computer from TinkerToys (TM) as part of his PhD thesis or something? I've been looking for the schematics.... -- Doug From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Mon Mar 9 22:24:18 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? Message-ID: Well, without changing the blower motor or fuses, I plugged in my newly rewired 4967 hard drive. I turned it on, the power supply made that electrical buzzing noise that big PS's do(and a 220v motor in the background running at half speed), then the drive started to spin up. Is there a miniaturized jet plane in there? ;-) Anyways, it starts up(power light comes on), and then after about 10-15 seconds there is a clunk sound and the drive kinda shuts down until it tries again about 20 seconds later(or maybe because I turned on the CPU). I'm not quite sure what ti think. I haven't bothered taking it apart yet(too much work to get the PS/controller unit off). Anyone have any ideas, or know someone who would? --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 9 23:57:37 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he > decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or > will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies of the tech ref. BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. -- Doug From go at ao.com Tue Mar 10 00:20:07 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Searching for HW manual for HP card reader Message-ID: <199803100620.WAA18016@office.ao.com> I'm looking for a manual (hardware / service / etc.) for an HP "9869A Calculator Card Reader". Just for clarification, this is a 50 pound table-top beast from the mid-70s that seems to be a full 80/40 column hollerith. Has 117v primary and a 34pin "ribbon" ("centronics-style") connector for I/O. I can probably make it "go" without docs, but it will be easier to repair and adjust if I have the specifics. Of course, the usual offer of payment for copies or (preferably) originals is in effect. Thanks for any info, Gary From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Mar 10 01:35:23 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: VAXServers (6 off) FREE in Vermont Message-ID: <3504ecdb.124223393@mail.enterprise.net> Found in comp.os.vms: >Hello all, >We have several (currently 6, more to come) VaxServer 3100's that >we have retired from service. They had been doing Macintosh file = >serving, >for the last 5 years and have been replaced with NT boxes. >Our current options are either 1) find them a good home, 2) send them >to State Surplus Equipment, or 3) throw them out. >I can offer them FREE to anyone who wants them, PROVIDED you >arrange to either pick them up or have them shipped to you at no >cost to us. >Also available are a couple of Storage Expansion units for these boxes, >a few VT320's, and 3 TLZ04 tape drives. >The 3100's are rather minimally configured, nothing beyond the base >memory (8MB? maybe 16MB?) and a relatively small hard drive >(250MB?). I'm not primarily a Vax person, so I'm not sure what other >information anyone might need, but feel free to ask. >These machines do work. They came out of service between September >and now, and were under DEC service agreements until June 30th, 1997. >We intended to donate them to a sister college, who later decided they >didn't want them, and we tried a used equipment dealer who didn't want >them either. >If anyone's interested, please reply to me by email. If we don't get = >rid >of them by the end of next week, the whole lot goes to State Surplus. >Tony Harris >Network Administrator >Community College of Vermont >harrist@mail.ccv.vsc.edu From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 01:54:50 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980309140237.4de73eb2@ricochet.net> At 07:46 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>I'll give you $40 for one to kill two birds with one stone: I'll get an >>HX-20, and we'll establish the going market price for them. I hate to say it, but there is a market for them, (one of which is right here) and $40 for a machine as described (assuming it works) is rather on the cheap side. Probably closer to $75, maybe even $100+ if you put it up for auction on eBay. Something tells me I should really be tracking what I pay for my machines... I guess I'll start doing that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 01:54:54 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980309140605.4de74092@ricochet.net> At 07:49 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >>nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... > > That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to >buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days ago. [I missed the beginning of this; I apparently got booted off the list.*] I too am looking for one, and would gladly take one for free. Depending on my financial circumstances at the time, I would even pay for one. *Not being one to know when I'm not wanted, I promptly signed up again. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 10 06:18:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> <>Hello all, < <>We have several (currently 6, more to come) VaxServer 3100's that <>we have retired from service. They had been doing Macintosh file = <>serving, <>for the last 5 years and have been replaced with NT boxes. I wrote him in the hopes of securing them, vermont it not far to go. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 08:16:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:36 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980309074654.2d3fa402@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310081610.467f5e26@intellistar.net> Doug, I'll let you know if he decides to sell. I think he's considering it. These are NICE units. They were used as controllers in some kind of survielence (sp?) systems so they were enclosed inside of another unit and have never been handled and they look like new. The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I might get one just to add to my documentation library. Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? Joe At 11:57 PM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he >> decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or >> will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? > >Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't >know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory >expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell >these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, >so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies >of the tech ref. > >BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in >Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). >I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an >HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was >attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and >large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. > >-- Doug > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 08:22:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980309140605.4de74092@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310082235.467fec24@intellistar.net> Roger, Was it your mailbox that filled up and was bouncing messages all over the place? Did you get the NEC books yet? Joe At 01:54 AM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:49 AM 3/9/98, you wrote: >>>FWIW, I got email earlier today from somebody who threw his IPC away when >>>nobody took him up on his offer of taking it away for free.... >> >> That's very strange since I frequently see ads from people wanting to >>buy them. There was an ad in one of the HP news-groups just a few days >ago. > >[I missed the beginning of this; I apparently got booted off the list.*] > >I too am looking for one, and would gladly take one for free. Depending on >my financial circumstances at the time, I would even pay for one. > >*Not being one to know when I'm not wanted, I promptly signed up again. 8^) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From aaron at wfi-inc.com Tue Mar 10 10:55:06 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: The free VAXen Message-ID: Hi, Pardon someone fairly new to the cult of VAX, but what are the differences between the VAXstation 3100 and the VAXserver 3100? Is it like Suns, where is is just the same machine without framebuffer and monitor? My only VAX (so far) is a VAXstation 3100 m38, and I'm finally starting to understand why there is such a religious user base for them. Also, Allison, which model is the guy giving away? Please let me know when you get them and what condition they were in, I'm really interested. 6/7 of my freebies have turned out to be expensive-to-ship parts boxes, the only real exception being a Sun 3/50 that was magnificent (complete with memory expansion board). Regards, Aaron From archive at navix.net Tue Mar 10 09:56:18 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 References: Message-ID: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net> Boy, I really am enjoying these discussions of the old Epson laptops. I just picked up an Epson HX-40 a couple of weeks ago, so this series now has a special place in my 'interest catagory'. FYI, Sam Ismail, in response to my post a couple of weeks ago requesting information on these things, said he too saw an Epson HX-41, and like the one you saw, was attached to a large machine... a lathe I believe. Doug or anyone else: do any of you have any of the interchangeable RAM chips that were used by these. My HX-40 boots up on a chip that has some pharmacy software on it... used for ordering via modem, etc. I am curious to see what other stuff was for these things. When I take the chip out, it boot's to standard CP/M. Well, all for now... CORD Doug Yowza wrote: > On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > > > I don't have them for sale. They belong to a friend of mine. If he > > decides to sell one, I'll let you know. Do they need a special tape or > > will a standard audio tape work in them? What's the expansion unit? > > Thanks, Joe, I would like to buy one, so let me know if he sells. I don't > know much about the HX-20, but I think the expansion unit was memory > expansion (from 16K to 32K?). I've talked to somebody that used to sell > these things as a dealer, and he still has the technical reference manual, > so if we become HX-20 owners, I'll see if I can at least get photocopies > of the tech ref. > > BTW, I saw an Epson HC-41 today. I think the HX-20 and HX-40 were sold in > Japan as the HC-20 and HC-40 (which was also called the PX-4, I think). > I've never heard of an HC-41 before today, but it looked sort of like an > HX-20 except it had chicklet keys and a non-QWERTY layout. It was > attached by ribbon cable to a rather large machine; the tiny Epson and > large machine it controlled where being sold as a matched set for $250. > > -- Doug -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 09:20:44 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <19980310000048.26987.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: > 3)Have there been any machines that made extensive use of a truly > unusual architecture? Yes. Lots. Most of the time the weird architectures could be found on very old machines (standard joke - everything was done in the 1950s) and reborn later on. For example, the upcoming Merced, while being trumpetted as truely revolutionary, uses some of the dataflow techniques found in the few old Multiflow Trace supercomputers. In general, the unusual stuff dies early. > What I am looking for is twofold: I am > interested if anything ever used a neural network-like arrangement, > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing IBM mainframes (actually most mainframes) work this way. The users use the I/O processors more than the central processors, except when the big batch jobs are run. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 09:24:44 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, without changing the blower motor or fuses, I plugged in my newly > rewired 4967 hard drive. I turned it on, the power supply made that > electrical buzzing noise that big PS's do(and a 220v motor in the > background running at half speed), then the drive started to spin up. Is > there a miniaturized jet plane in there? ;-) Anyways, it starts up(power > light comes on), and then after about 10-15 seconds there is a clunk sound > and the drive kinda shuts down until it tries again about 20 seconds > later(or maybe because I turned on the CPU). I'm not quite sure what ti > think. I haven't bothered taking it apart yet(too much work to get the > PS/controller unit off). Anyone have any ideas, or know someone who would? Perhaps is the drive motor not spinning fast enough (because it may be a 240V type as well, now only getting 120V)? If it can not get up to speed, well... Maybe if I am bored tonight, I will take a look at one of mine. William Donzelli william@ans.net From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Tue Mar 10 09:35:59 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803101535.KAA03263@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> William Donzelli writes: > In general, the unusual stuff dies early. That's a very interesting statement, but if you think about it it's both "exactly backwards" and "exactly true." Stuff becomes known as "unusual" precisely BECAUSE it "dies early" -- and is therefore not around to become "commonplace!" Dinosaurs are extinct today BECAUSE they died out 65 million years ago... Chris Chiesa cchi@lle.rochester.edu From lfb107 at psu.edu Tue Mar 10 10:20:51 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <199803101622.LAA32226@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> At 08:16 AM 3/10/98, Joe wrote: > The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I >might get one just to add to my documentation library. There are two of them each about 250 pgs. > Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try >it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW >is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) >BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the >monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? Don't really see one. HX-20's came with 16k and I think the expansion doubled that to 32k. It looks like the command "STAT ALL" should give you what your looking for. Les From naamato at wooj.merit.edu Tue Mar 10 10:36:57 1998 From: naamato at wooj.merit.edu (Nick Amato) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: DEC 5500 In-Reply-To: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net>; from Cord Coslor on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:56:18AM -0800 References: <350562A1.A2F95AB@navix.net> Message-ID: <19980310113657.30258@wooj.merit.edu> Hi all, I'm more of a lurker than a poster. I enjoy lurking, though. :-) I have the opportunity to snarf a DEC 5500 for free. This is a refrigerator-sized Q-bus machine that runs an old version of Ultrix (which is 4.2 BSD based). There are several cages of disks in the package. Supposedly, around 2 GB total storage. And, a few DECprinters (9-pin dot matrix). And, I'm told that it boots. Has anyone had any sort of experience with one of these? Nick From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Mar 10 10:56:52 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <01IUHWNW8D929EDV1F@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW > is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) > BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the Yes. The Monitor dumps you into a machine language monitor of all things. But even stranger, BASIC drops you into a BASIC interpreter!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Mar 10 11:30:38 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 10, 98 07:18:33 am Message-ID: <199803101730.JAA05180@fraser.sfu.ca> > <(TM) as part of his PhD thesis or something? I've been looking for the > Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310130452.44ff8904@intellistar.net> Les, Thanks for the info. I'll try STAT IBFO and see if it works. Are you going to get a copy of the tech ref? If so, I'd like to get one too. Joe At 11:20 AM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:16 AM 3/10/98, Joe wrote: >> The technical reference manuals sound interesting. How big are they? I >>might get one just to add to my documentation library. > >There are two of them each about 250 pgs. > >> Is there a command to show the amount of memory in the HX-20? I'll try >>it with and without the expansion unit connected and see what they do. BTW >>is it normal for the HX-20 to turn on and show a menu for: 1) Monitor 2) >>BASIC ? That's what these do. Do you have any user documentation for the >>monitor and BASIC for the HX-20? > >Don't really see one. HX-20's came with 16k and I think the expansion >doubled that to 32k. It looks like the command "STAT ALL" should >give you what your looking for. > >Les > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 13:27:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said "Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. It had model 5271 marked on the back. Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 10 12:42:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35058992.DA434F67@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said > "Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. > I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive > with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. > It had model 5271 marked on the back. > > Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer > AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner > said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. I have 2 of the 3271's which are essentially 5160 XT with added network equipment. Anyone interested in buying one or both? The AT store controller is again another stock machine with options (like an Impala with extra goodies is called an SS) in that it was made as part of a point-of-sale system from a 5170 platform. I sold 50 of those two years ago after I had gutted certain useless (to the average "Joe") cards and made them into 5170 AT's. Sears in Chicago dumped them for $10 each and I sold them at roughly $25 each, in no time flat. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 13:43:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310134342.396fcd12@intellistar.net> I found an Amstrad PCW-8256 word proccessor this morning. It uses CF-2 floppy disks. Are these the same small disks that everyone was looking for a few weeks ago? Joe From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 10 13:02:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803101218.AA11316@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Yes I know but it has been done. Back when shift registers were commonly > available with lengths of 1024 bits it was very trivial to string a few > and get really long serial memory. With moden megabit rams it's not that > much more difficult. The tape was not so much the problem but the > programing... It's been a long time since I've looked at a CS book, but I remember the Turing machine as a *theoretical* machine that reads and writes symbols on an *infinitely long* tape. I'm sure somebody could build an approximation of this, but the main interest in the Turing machine is that it is used as the definition of computational "power." One of theories is that no machine built today, or at any time in the future, no matter what the architecture, will be able to compute anything that a simple Turing machine cannot compute.. I think that's basically a long-winded way of saying that all computing machines are state machines, and the Turing machine was basically a device that helped visualize the mechanical realization of a state machine. Once you actually build one, however, the "tape" is no longer infinitely long, so the machine suddenly has limited computational power, and the theorem no longer applies. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:13:27 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Phillip, Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I just reformat tem for use in my machines? Joe At 03:17 PM 3/9/98 GMT, you wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> Does the system 34 use *" floppy disks? I don't know anything about S34 >> but I think I got a bunch of disks this weekend and I think some them are >> original disks for the S 34. >> >> Joe > >I don't know about Daniel's machine but every System/34 I've ever seen >does. It takes them either singly or in "magazines" of ten diskettes. >I recommend that anyone with a S/34 tries to get hold of some of the >empty magazines - or even full ones. > >AFAIK, IBM's idea was you kept yor software, backups etc. in magazines, >unless it was 3 disks or fewer. I imagine most people did what people >nowadays will be forced to do - keep the disks in conventional boxes and >load the magazines immediately before insertion into the S/34. > >Philip > > > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 10 13:11:04 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >It had model 5271 marked on the back. Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. > > Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer >AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner >said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. Yup, that's a POS box. I think the Albertson's grocery chain here in Oklahoma still use them. At the stroke of midnight every day, all their registers go offline for about 15 minutes and the managers and cashiers scream back and forth at each other. That's the first sign that IBMs are in use. > > Joe > > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 13:14:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338621166.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Format suspected S/34 disks?] What's the labels say? What are your machines using 8" disks? ------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:23:12 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338318829.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980308221748.3067bb50@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> At 07:33 AM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >It uses ONLY 8" floppies! What do you have origionals of? >------- > Here's a partial list. This is the stuff out of two boxs, there are 7 or 8 more boxs that I haven't gone through. I *think* these codes identify the disks, that's a lot of other stuff marked on them but it's batch numbers, dates, etc. Let me know if you know what this stuff is. Almost all of the stuff is dated 1977. IDENT. APOPTF2 FCPMR1 IDENT. PM2PTF2 FCPMR1 IDENT. APPUO1 IDENT. FCPML1 IDENT. FCPMU2 IDENT. FCPMU1 IDENT. FCPMS1 IDENT. APPUO1 IDENT. SYSDMP IDENT. FCPM02 SYSTEM TEST DISKETTE LEVEL A 34AX SYSTEM PARITY VERIFICATION IDENT. FCPM03 IDENT. FCPMS2 IDENT. FCPMU1 IDENT. FCPMS0 IDENT. APPU01 IDENT. FCPMS1 IDENT. FCPMS2 Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 10 13:46:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... Message-ID: <3505987F.136B1C9B@bbtel.com> To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them (swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon before I bury them in my storage building for a while. Contact me by direct email please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 13:38:21 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338625519.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> SYSDMP is a SYSDMP disk. That's a core dump. SYSTEM TEST ... is obvious. The rest look like they could be diags or something... DO you have something capable of reading them? ------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:49:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310144926.405784a4@intellistar.net> At 01:11 PM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >> This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >>"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >>I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >>with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >>It had model 5271 marked on the back. > >Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA >cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard >to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. Let me know what these parts look like and I'll grab them for you if you want them. I think I know which one is the display adapter. (Does it have a small red shaft sticking out? Looks like a miniture circuit breaker?) Is the keyboard adapter external or internal? If it's external, then it's already off the machine but I might be able to find it if you give me a description. Joe > >> >> Also a few weeks ago I saw an IBM AT that was marked "Personnal Computer >>AT Store Controller". What is it for? I've never heard of one. The owner >>said that he had already "modified it" to make it a regular computer. > >Yup, that's a POS box. I think the Albertson's grocery chain here in >Oklahoma still use them. At the stroke of midnight every day, all their >registers go offline for about 15 minutes and the managers and cashiers >scream back and forth at each other. That's the first sign that IBMs are in >use. > >> >> Joe >> >> > > > >Thank you, > >David Wollmann >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ >-- > >Support for legacy IBM products. > >Data, document and file conversion for legacy >IBM file and media formats. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:52:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338621166.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310145217.405f411a@intellistar.net> At 11:14 AM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >[Format suspected S/34 disks?] > >What's the labels say? I just posted a list of a *few* of them. >What are your machines using 8" disks? 2 Tandy 6000s and Intel MCS 80/85. I have some more 8" drives so I may hang one on my Altair. Joe >------- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 14:57:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <13338625519.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310142312.396f74ea@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310145759.513f3a46@intellistar.net> At 11:38 AM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >SYSDMP is a SYSDMP disk. That's a core dump. >SYSTEM TEST ... is obvious. There are some other system test disks in the other boxs also. > >The rest look like they could be diags or something... >DO you have something capable of reading them? Nope. Joe >------- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 15:11:19 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of these? BTW A friend of mine has a digital clock made my MITS. How rare are they? Joe From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 14:11:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310145759.513f3a46@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13338631568.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [S/34 disks] You obviously don't want to nuke the diags disks. As far as the other lables, do you have anything like SSP on those lables? ------- From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 14:18:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer > made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It > has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to > represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin > chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses > incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it > looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of > these? Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things were not digital at all! William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 14:24:48 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I > think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I > just reformat tem for use in my machines? By all means they are worth preserving. The S/3x family of machines were a major player in the mini market in the 1970s and 80s (and now, if the AS/400 is included). William Donzelli william@ans.net From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 14:34:26 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980310113357.3eef2f70@ricochet.net> At 04:00 PM 3/9/98 PST, you wrote: > and I am interested in something that had a processor that > interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing > (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) Godbout (CompuPro) made a processor board that had both an 80286 and an 8085. I know, because I worked on such a system in the early 80's. Meanwhile, in that same box, the disk controller had a Z80 on it. (I am *so* sorry I didn't go back and snag that system after we (the employees) left en masse due to not having been paid for several months.) In the early '80s, I felt rather strongly that the ideal system would be based on a z8000 (or 80x86 if you must) for number crunching and general processing and a 68000 for graphics and interface stuff. Put in two processors and let 'em do what they're best at. Still feel the same, only these days its the '586/'060 combo (or whatever the latest is). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 10 14:34:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: HP Integral PC Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980310114143.3eef3e0c@ricochet.net> At 08:22 AM 3/10/98, you wrote: > Was it your mailbox that filled up and was bouncing messages all over the >place? I sure hope not! If it was, I truly apologize! But I download mail everyday, (although on weekends I don't always get to read it right away.) I did get the NEC stuff. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From peacock at simconv.com Tue Mar 10 14:57:21 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <00ff01bd4c67$1f220e70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >> and I am interested in something that had a processor that >> interacted w/the user and a separate one to do the processing >> (ie a real-time system capable of doing all that a normal one can) The earliest machine I know of that did this on a large scale was the 6000 series from CDC, starting with the CDC 6600 in late 60's, designed by Seymour Cray. The main CPU was a superscalar 60 bit processor with no I/O instructions or ports, just memory. All I/O was handled by PPUs (peripheral processor units), which if I recall were 24 bit CPUs, (very hazy recall here) using an older CDC 924 type instruction set. The PPUs had direct memory channels into the main CPU. The operating system posted messages to the PPUs for I/O requests. The PPUs were not user programmable, but could be programmed at the system programmer level. More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O functions. I vaguely recall someone made an S-100 board with an 8089 on it (was it Godbout?) but it never caught on. Jack Peacock From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 10 15:27:04 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <00ff01bd4c67$1f220e70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part > of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O > functions. Even more recently, Intel is pushing their I2O architecture for PCs. The basic idea, I think, is to let the Pentium do the general purpose computing, and use a dedicated 960 running VxWorks to do the I/O. -- Doug From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Mar 10 15:45:40 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free to a good home - VT320's Message-ID: <3505b1ac.174616250@mail.enterprise.net> I thought this might be of interest to the Brits on the list. I have asked him for a couple of them so leave some for me :-) Regards Pete On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:48:15 -0000, in comp.sys.dec "Jeff Chambers" wrote: >I have 11 VT320's surplus to my requirements, which are free to a good >home - ie not for resale by a broker. > >My only requirements are that this is a UK offer (I am Leicestershire based) >and the prospective owner(s) collects or arranges carriage. The least hassle >you offer me the better chance you can have one/them! > >Jeff > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 10 15:53:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> <> More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part <> of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O <> functions. And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). In 81 I started a system using multiple z80s and 8085s to do things like disk IO and loosely coupled multiprocessing (using z80s). When I had it up and operational it could outrun a dos powered 386/20. Slave procesors and distributed cpus are not new. One favorite is the PDP-12, a PDP-8 with a linc-8 as a peripheral. The PDP-10 used PDP-8 as an IO processor or later ones used PDP-11s. Even the Microvax-II disk controller had a T-11(chip version of a base PDP-11). Allison From go at ao.com Tue Mar 10 16:25:48 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803102226.OAA30090@office.ao.com> Sure thing. I have one of those beasties. Before I could afford a good oscilloscope it seemed like a nice way to bench-test some digital (DTL & TTL) circuits. Modified mine with connector for the cable attachment to the box so I could plug in different IC clips for different sized components. Also could use it as a pretty dumb "logic analyzer" with a cable that had clips or probes on each pin. It never worked very well for dynamic circuits (not surprising) but I did get a lot of use from it while breadboarding. Gary At 03:18 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer >> made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It >> has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to >> represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin >> chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses >> incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it >> looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of >> these? > >Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things >that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things >were not digital at all! > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue Mar 10 16:50:06 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Samsung S300 Message-ID: <19980310145006.003b3fe4.in@mail.pressstart.com> Anyone famillar with a Samsung S300? The e-mail address is julief@nytimes.com. >Dear Mr. Coward, >Just visited your museum web site. Very nice. Unfortunately, it didn't >contain the information I was seeking, namely, the retail price of a >Samsung S300 back in 1988. I'm with the New York Times and I need the >information for a story I'm working on. If you have an idea where I can >look, please message me. Otherwise, good luck with your museum. >Cheers, >Julie Flaherty ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 10 16:33:33 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> References: <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310163333.009797d0@ibmhelp.com> At 02:13 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >Phillip, > > Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I >think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I >just reformat tem for use in my machines? > If you want I'll trade you some new 8" diskettes for the S/34 diskettes. I think I can still get the 8" "flippy" style that can be used as either 1 or 2D--otherwise I'm sure I can scrape together a box or two of IBM disks that have already been archived. That way you have your disks, and I can dump the S/34 stuff to a CD-ROM and add it to the archives. We never get any IBM requests for the S/34 stuff anymore, but I'd still like to be able to make it available to museums and collectors. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From william at ans.net Tue Mar 10 16:50:50 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Demography In-Reply-To: <1998Mar05.161907.1767.86230@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: > Pardon my ignorance but what is RCS/RI? Retro Computing Society of > Rhode Island? Regardless, is there a web address I can visit? Yes, you are correct! Basically started by a few locals (I live in New York - not exactly local!) as a loose organization of individuals interested in seeing the old systems live on thru the age of the PeeCee. It has grown quite a bit, and now is incorporated. We still act as a bit of a computer commune, as we chip in for the rent and other expenses at the "Mill", a room in an old factory we rent. Some of the machines at the Mill are owner by members but available to all. Most, however, are considered RCS/RI property. We tend to go for the big iron, but we do have quite a few micros as well. Every month or so we do have an open house, generally on a Saturday. I will post information about it, for any locals on the list. General work sessions are just about every other Saturday. Our web site (although in need up some updates - actually lots of updates!) is at . William Donzelli william@ans.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 10 18:19:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find In-Reply-To: <199803102226.OAA30090@office.ao.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980310181959.32bf639c@intellistar.net> Gary, When did these come out and what did these cost when they were new? Just out of curiousity. Looks like it would make a nice accessory piece for someone with a SwTPc (or my Altair :-). Joe At 02:25 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >Sure thing. I have one of those beasties. Before I could afford a >good oscilloscope it seemed like a nice way to bench-test some digital >(DTL & TTL) circuits. Modified mine with connector for the cable >attachment to the box so I could plug in different IC clips for different >sized components. Also could use it as a pretty dumb "logic analyzer" >with a cable that had clips or probes on each pin. > >It never worked very well for dynamic circuits (not surprising) but I >did get a lot of use from it while breadboarding. > >Gary > >At 03:18 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer >>> made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It >>> has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to >>> represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin >>> chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses >>> incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it >>> looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of >>> these? >> >>Yes, I have seen them, but that's about it. SWTPC made quite a few things >>that were not related to thier 680x based micros - in fact some things >>were not digital at all! >> >>William Donzelli >>william@ans.net >> > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 10 17:42:14 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? Message-ID: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> When I get my RSTS online publicly, would I be correct in saying I am the only RSTS/E PDP-11 on the internet? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 10 18:19:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? In-Reply-To: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 10, 98 03:42:14 pm Message-ID: <9803110019.AA16834@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/2d57ec86/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 14:06:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ... In-Reply-To: <9803100424.AA12978@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 9, 98 08:24:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/3f182e28/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 17:24:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 10, 98 04:53:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 787 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/e9047fc0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 10 14:32:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980310134342.396fcd12@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 10, 98 01:43:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 487 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980310/1d5a0eb5/attachment.ksh From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 10 21:03:51 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <004e01bd4c9a$7401ee00$5769420c@francois> Do they have the service manuals for the CPC et al too? If so I would be interested in the 6128 manual. What are the coordinates of the company? Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Amstrad disks >BTW, the service manual (an Amstrad Service manual = parts lists + >schematics _only_, virtually no text) is available from CPC in the UK if >anyone needs one. It's not that expensive (say about \pounds 15.00). > >> >> Joe >> >> > >-tony > From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 10 21:47:10 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Another hamfest find References: <3.0.1.16.19980310151119.513f9db6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3506093E.D851181@crl.com> Joe wrote: > > I found an interesting gadget at a hamfest last weekend. It's a Digi-Viewer > made by SwTPc. It's a gold colored metal box about 6 x 5 x 4 inches. It > has the outline of an IC on it and 16 lights around the outline to > represent each IC pin. There's a cable coming out of the box with a 16 pin > chip clip on the other end. It's AC powered and looks like it uses > incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. I've never heard of one before but it > looks like a prehistoric IC pin status display. Anyone here ever use one of > these? Not this exact one, but they made numerous similar digital tools. I've seen the kind that has a smaller LED display that sits right on top of the chip-clip thingy. I love this kind of thing. Let me know if it's taking up too much space ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 10 22:19:39 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... In-Reply-To: <3505987F.136B1C9B@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980310231939.00af4a50@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: >To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, >the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard >is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before >the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. Does it work, or is it fixable??? >I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that >look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do >but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a >current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I >need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three >for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them >(swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon >before I bury them in my storage building for a while. Also, are any of these still available? I may be requiring a terminal or two in the near future... Please let me know, and thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 10 22:20:34 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Nuts! (Was: Re: Terminals in my way...) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980310232034.00919100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: Nuts... Sorry, guys! "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Mar 10 22:36:45 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:37 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Perhaps is the drive motor not spinning fast enough (because it may be a >240V type as well, now only getting 120V)? If it can not get up to speed, >well... Yep, two parts I have found so far 240v, and need to be replaced... I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to find replacement motors, but some of the other stuff will be interesting... --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 07:23:23 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Started up the S/34 - It runs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310163333.009797d0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310141327.439fdcae@intellistar.net> <9802098894.AA889485905@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311072323.43afdb7e@intellistar.net> At 04:33 PM 3/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 02:13 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >>Phillip, >> >> Thanks for the info. I picked up a bunch of original IBM disks that I >>think are for a S 34. I wonder if they're worth preserving or should I >>just reformat tem for use in my machines? >> > >If you want I'll trade you some new 8" diskettes for the S/34 diskettes. I >think I can still get the 8" "flippy" style that can be used as either 1 or >2D--otherwise I'm sure I can scrape together a box or two of IBM disks that >have already been archived. That way you have your disks, and I can dump >the S/34 stuff to a CD-ROM and add it to the archives. We never get any IBM >requests for the S/34 stuff anymore, but I'd still like to be able to make >it available to museums and collectors. > > >Thank you, > >David Wollmann >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ >-- >Support for legacy IBM products. > >Data, document and file conversion for legacy >IBM file and media formats. > David, That sounds like a good idea. But one question first. Do you make this stuff freeely available or does your company charge for it? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 08:30:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: References: <199803102153.AA12979@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311083044.449794dc@intellistar.net> At 11:24 PM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> >> <> More recently, Intel designed the 8089 I/O co-processor as part >> <> of the 8086 family. It had an instruction set optimized for I/O >> <> functions. >> >> And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard >> interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). > >Well, my 8089 data sheet is copyright 1980, Hey, you did RTFB! Joe :-) so I'd put that chip before >the PC/AT. This chip was used as the DMA controller in the original >Apricot PC, BTW. > >The 8089 is really a very fancy DMA controller with a limited processing >ability as well. There are AND/OR/NOT/ADD instructions (although no XOR, >no SUB and no shifts/rotates). It looks to have been a pretty nice chip - >pity it never caught on. It's a lot nicer than the 8237 + page register >kludge used on the PC. > > >> Allison > >-tony > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 07:43:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? Message-ID: <13338823019.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Here we go... I moved the RA81 to school. Whilst running the RA81 checkout tests in the manual, I get to step 11 of the checkout tests, and I get the following: %RA81-TEST: SUBTEST:0F ERROR:D8 UNIT:000 %RA81-FRU-SERVO,HDA This indicates that the HDA needs replacing ------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 10 04:19:02 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Zenith Luggable/DEC sw In-Reply-To: <199803021724.AA13928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803111519.KAA25421@smtp.interlog.com> On 2 Mar 98 at 12:24, Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I imagine I was just lucky and the DEC disks came in to the > > Rainbows did run MSdos versions 1.1 and 2.11.. I may even have a copy of > 2.11(rx50). > > Allison > > Sorry, Allison . Imissed this post in arecent glut of e-mail. Thanks for the offer but I'll likely be down-loading all I can use from the fi. site. If it turns out that I'm unable to use the images I'll get back to you. BTW I still have the PDP-8/e/f/m maintenance manual . If there's any section that you would like photocopied let me know ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 10 04:18:59 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199803111518.KAA25368@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 Mar 98 at 13:11, David Wollmann wrote: > At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: > > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said > >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. > >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive > >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. > >It had model 5271 marked on the back. > > Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA > cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard > to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. > There was a thread on this a while back. Below follows the relevant details. I still have the monitor. ciao larry On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: snip > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks > > like EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton > > Utes and it was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear > > characters. > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it > > took two coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > -Mike > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are > likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't > know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. > Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at > emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it > that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not > as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for > it...) > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points > Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the > top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced > the capability somewhat as well. > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. > Pity. snip > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one > of PS and APA, alas. > > Hope this helps > > Philip. > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these would it work on an XT ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lfb107 at psu.edu Wed Mar 11 10:46:51 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable so any ideas are welcome! Also, I have a number of machines that I don't use on any sort of regular basis that have hard drives in them. I don't expect these things to last forever but is there something I can do to prolong the life of some relatively unused machines. (An old Xerox comes to mind) Should I "start 'er up" every so often (like a car in storage) or is it better to just leave well enough alone? Thanks! Les lfb107@psu.edu From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 11 11:47:41 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Any other RSTS/E machines online? In-Reply-To: <13338669918.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: Although you'll probably beat me to it you won't be for long. On the other hand, my efforts to put machines on the net have been largely vaporware for several months. I actually DID have my SWTPC 6800 machine on the Net for about 24 hours before a power line hit or something (it was protected so maybe it was just a failure) popped a 7400 on it's cpu card and caused its serial card to go poof. I finally got some schematics so I'll be working on fixing that. I have an 11/84 and an 11/34 in the garage that are waiting to be moved into the basement and restored to full operation. I also got a DEC terminal server that apparently contains, according to sources on this mailing list, a Unibus ethernet card suitable for the 11/84 so I might feel compelled to place it on the Net. When DSL arrives in Des Moines in June, I should be able to afford the upgrade from my dedicated 33.6k connection to a 256k link. Once I get over my cold (I can tell I'm starting to get over it because, as is always the case for 3 or 4 days following a cold, everything smells like burnt chocolate) I intend to move the 84 the 34 and the 3 PDP-8I's into the basement and start restoring them. I spent last week...part of why I got sick...cleaning the basement and making space for everything and organizing my workbench so I can actually work on machines. At any rate, the 84 is currently loaded with RSX though I always preferred RSTS over it. Apparently, however, SCO has released source, binary etc licensing for various flavors of Unix for the 11 so I'm inclined to run that instead. =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > When I get my RSTS online publicly, would I be correct in > saying I am the only RSTS/E PDP-11 on the internet? > ------- > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 09:42:46 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: strange IBMs In-Reply-To: <199803111518.KAA25368@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980310131104.0094adc0@ibmhelp.com> <3.0.1.16.19980310132708.439f0186@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311094246.00810100@ibmhelp.com> At 10:18 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >On 10 Mar 98 at 13:11, David Wollmann wrote: > >> At 01:27 PM 3/10/98, you wrote: >> > This morning I went to a trift store and found an IBM PC that said >> >"Personal Computer 3270". How rare are these? I've never seen one before. >> >I have seen AT 3270s but not a PC. This one had a full height hard drive >> >with IBM logo on it and a full height 5 1/4" floppy drive with IBM's logo. >> >It had model 5271 marked on the back. >> >> Whatever you do, don't throw the 3270 adapters, keyboard adapters or APA >> cards (the card that bridges to the display adapter) away. Those are hard >> to come by, and we get calls for them on a regular basis. >> > > There was a thread on this a while back. Below follows the relevant >details. I still have the monitor. > >ciao larry > >On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >snip >> >> > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks >> > like EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton >> > Utes and it was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear >> > characters. >> > >> > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it >> > took two coupled long cards to run the video... >> > >> > -Mike >> >> No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are >> likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) >> >> The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't >> know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. >> Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. >> >> The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at >> emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it >> that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. >> >> 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols >> option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not >> as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for >> it...) >> >> 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points >> Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the >> top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced >> the capability somewhat as well. >> >> It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. >> Pity. > >snip > >> But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one >> of PS and APA, alas. >> >> Hope this helps >> >> Philip. >> >I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to >get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, >altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be >the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card >and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these >would it work on an XT ? > >ciao larry >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > I'm not sure if you could make the 5272 work for run-of-the-mill DOS apps on an XT, even with the 3270 cards since the functionality they add is mostly for the 3270 ws emu. There was a fellow who was doing a fix on the 5272 that made it a standard EGA--IIRC it was just a couple desolders and a few cuts with an X-acto knife. I lost track of him, but you might try searching Alta Vista for "5272". If I find him again I'll post his info here. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 11 11:12:15 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Wanted stuff (Was: Pretty good week) References: <13336315787.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3506C5EF.FA141EB4@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Lart?] > I have one. It's a hard cardboard tube out of the center of a UTP reel box. > Aout 2" thick. I wrote "RTFM" on the top. > ------- Mine's a steel tube. About 5" long, about .45" ID. I shorten "RTFM" to an "X" at the end of the enforcement module inside. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 11:28:48 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311112848.00812700@ibmhelp.com> At 11:46 AM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have >a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable >so any ideas are welcome! > Other than storing them in a cool, dark place I don't thing there's a whole lot you can do to curb the aging effects. We're starting to see problems with 9 Track and QIC tapes (5-10 yrs. old or >), not so much with 8" diskettes--yet. The diskettes that have been stored properly seem to be almost perfect at this point. I've been wondering if vacuum-packing with one of those kitchen countertop units would help preserve the old diskettes and tapes? If you want to move the files/images to a modern format like CD for preservation, the method probably depends on how you expect to go about restoring the data to 8" when you need to. We have an 8" unit attached to a PC that can read CP/M and IBM 3740-compatible (Series/1, S/23, S/36, Displaywriter, etc.) and dump either images or files to PC disk, from there to CD-ROM. This is how we're preserving the IBM 8" diskettes in our collection. When we need a new copy of one of the 8" diskettes, we just reverse the process. The only problem we've found so far is with Displaywriter Textpack diskettes--for some reason we have to format the diskette on the Displaywriter first, then write the image, otherwise the diskette won't boot the machine. I'm sure this is a controller issue. For your purposes, you'll probably have to figure out how to move files or images (difficulty depends on the machine and OS, I suppose) between the 8"-equipped machine and a PC/Mac/etc. so you can store them on modern media for later use. Even if you don't know how to move the files/images back to the original machine at first, you've still preserved the files, you can always buy the return ticket later. The easiest approach for moving files usually seems to be ftp, Kermit or another comm package over null modem cable to a host PC. >Also, I have a number of machines that I don't use on any sort >of regular basis that have hard drives in them. I don't expect >these things to last forever but is there something I can do to >prolong the life of some relatively unused machines. (An old >Xerox comes to mind) Should I "start 'er up" every so often >(like a car in storage) or is it better to just leave well enough >alone? It might be a good idea to do a backup/init disk/restore every few years to refresh the disk, provided your tape drive is in good working order and you can get fresh tapes. > >Thanks! >Les >lfb107@psu.edu > > Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From cchi at lle.rochester.edu Wed Mar 11 11:59:39 1998 From: cchi at lle.rochester.edu (Chris Chiesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803111759.MAA05893@coconut.lle.rochester.edu> > From CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Mar 11 12:38:47 1998 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Sender: dwollmann@ibmhelp.com > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > X-Lines: 72 > > At 11:46 AM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall > >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have > >a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable > >so any ideas are welcome! > > > > Other than storing them in a cool, dark place I don't thing there's a whole > lot you can do to curb the aging effects. We're starting to see problems > with 9 Track and QIC tapes (5-10 yrs. old or >), not so much with 8" > diskettes--yet. The concensus on the "Community Memory" computer-history list, IIRC, was that to preserve the DATA it was a good idea to periodically migrate it to newer (types of) media. If you want to continue using the same PHYSICAL media (type), for purposes of "completeness," sentiment, etc., I assume you could simply (?) read-and-rewrite the data back onto the "same" media (whether the "same tape," or just "another tape of the same kind," is up to YOU). I can however envision situations in which system resource limitations might make it difficult to do that -- only one drive, no spare "blank" media, insufficient memory to buffer a copy of ONE tape/disk while swapping to the next one (more of a problem with tapes than with disks). You might be able to get around some of these problems with clever programming (i.e. tracking media position and restoring positions around multiple medium-swaps!) -- but I'm not about to assume that you guys can all PROGRAM all the machines you COLLECT. (Can you?) Me, I'm a DIY-software-head. I don't buy, or even dumpster-dive for, much hardware that I can't at least POTENTIALLY program... Chris Chiesa ("the still-pretty-new guy") From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 12:05:13 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? In-Reply-To: <13338823019.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 05:43:15 am Message-ID: <9803111805.AA13730@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 467 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/6dbb4d8c/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 12:07:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: This means my RA81 is toast, right? In-Reply-To: <9803111805.AA13730@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13338871202.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Locking heads?] FOrgetting to lock them - Nope. I did that. Forgetting to UNlock them - Did that a week ago. Figured out when I heard the large screech noise. ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 11 12:09:45 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Offering my help... Message-ID: <01bd4d18$dfa183e0$b760bcc1@hotze> Hi. After noticing how boring stuff was getting (between exams (no homework), and decrease of after school activities), I've decided to beef-up my involvement. So, I'm offering my help doing classiccmp/semi-classic stuff. I can't do everything, but I can do web pages, basic tips, etc. If anyone wants my help, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 12:13:24 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> from "Les Berry" at Mar 11, 98 11:46:51 am Message-ID: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 703 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/77a33bb8/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 12:12:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. Message-ID: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I am right now sitting in a room containing a few interesting parts... There's an 11/70 here, and 11/44, and 11/83. And that's not all. Lining the back wall are VAX 7650, 8530, 11/785... There's other DEC stuff around... There's apparently a RSX/11M distrib RL02 pack around, but it's been lost in a sea of XXDP+ packs... Numbersome MicroVAXen... I am talking to you right now from the 785! Truly impressive! The room also holds an AlphaServer 7100, and a lot of Windoze boxen. This is ATS's lab, where they test things! Already scored a lot of manuals, PDP-11, VAX, and PDP-8 stuff. Maybe I can talk them out of this 785, or maybe a DELUA or something... :) See ya later, I'm gonna see what else I can find! PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test equipment! ------- From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 11 12:35:55 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 10:12:47 am Message-ID: <199803111835.KAA24247@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/47ff5f69/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 11 12:43:49 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Les Berry wrote: > I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall > any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I have > a few things on 8 inch floppies that are pretty much irreplacable > so any ideas are welcome! The classiccmp FAQ has some information about this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 11 12:47:42 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> At 10:13 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: [snip] >That said, I have 8" floppies from the early 70's that still read >just fine. I can't say the same for CD-ROM's... Are you having problems reading the silver discs, or CD-Rs? How old are they? I'm just curious to know how CDs are holding up over time. I've heard that some CD-R discs aren't lasting more than a couple years, while others have no problems. David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 13:09:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 11, 98 12:47:42 pm Message-ID: <9803111909.AA12274@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/5142637d/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Mar 11 13:25:00 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> References: <9803111813.AA17727@alph02.triumf.ca> <199803111648.LAA37598@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980311142500.00adb630@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw David Wollmann typed: >At 10:13 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >[snip] >>That said, I have 8" floppies from the early 70's that still read >>just fine. I can't say the same for CD-ROM's... > >Are you having problems reading the silver discs, or CD-Rs? How old are they? > >I'm just curious to know how CDs are holding up over time. I've heard that >some CD-R discs aren't lasting more than a couple years, while others have >no problems. There's also the problem that folks seem to think that CD-R's are indestructable so they do not take care of them (i.e. not putting them back in the jewel cases, playing shuffleboard with them, etc.). My ex-supervisor had an (at the time) useless CD and said "There's no way you can hurt this CD so it can't be read in a player." I took it, put it between my thumb and middle finger, pushed on the middle with my index finger, and started sqeezing. 10 seconds later (I went slow for effect) the CD shattered into about 30 shards. I meticulously picked up each little piece, placed them in my ex-sup's hands and said "If you can get a directory of this thing, I'll give you $500. (the guy's a big-time gambler) I think he tried duct tape & superglue -- I wasn't worried. On a related note, I have a CD-RW and about 12 blank CD-R's yet... but one I'm saving seems more special. The run-of-the-mill stuff are my Maxells -- $0.99 after rebate. They boast a (max) 30 year shelf life. However, the one Kodak I have here boasts: "Stable Dye. The media contains a carefully selected dye recording layer that protects against the effects of light, humidity, and temperature, ensuring long data life of 100 years or more." Whether or not it's true, my classic info will be going on that disk. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 11 13:35:16 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803111935.TAA18277@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-10 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :It's been a long time since I've looked at a CS book, but I :remember the Turing machine as a *theoretical* machine that reads :and writes symbols on an *infinitely long* tape. I'm sure somebody :could build an approximation of this, but the main interest in the :Turing machine is that it is used as the definition of :computational "power." One of theories is that no machine built :today, or at any time in the future, no matter what the :architecture, will be able to compute anything that a simple Turing :machine cannot compute.. that's the one. alan turing defined these machines as part of his contribution to the proof that mathematics has some unprovables. anything that can be proved, period, can be proved by a turing machine; anything that a turing machine can't prove is unprovable. kurt godel (most famously, perhaps?) and alonzo church producd alternative theorems to demonstrate the same thing, but turing's work laid the basis for computer science, and turing himself became quite active within the field of early uk computation (the original ACE design is his, and he subsequently worked on manchester's computers). there are even such things as "universal turing machines", which can be given definitions of turing machines and used to solve such problems, which we suspect led directly on to universal computers which could be programmed to simulate special purpose devices. the "infinite tape" idea is as important as you suggested, however. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 14:19:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <19980311201951.25631.qmail@hotmail.com> >anything that a turing machine can't prove is unprovable. kurt godel I'm reading Douglas Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach, which is about information, patterns, number theory, intelligence, and so on. I implore everyone to read it, it is something any scientist ought to be familiar with like the three laws of motion. Copyright 1979, ISBN 0-394-74502-7. He wrote some more books after this one, but this one is better. Two others I have read deal with the same thing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed Mar 11 15:13:20 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <199803112113.WAA07464@mbox.queen.it> At 12:54 09/03/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have >the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with >the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle >section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of >the drives in the system. About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these positions, like the Olivetti version have? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 11 13:17:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks In-Reply-To: <004e01bd4c9a$7401ee00$5769420c@francois> from "Francois" at Mar 10, 98 09:03:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/01ed9eea/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 11 11:26:33 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <9803111909.AA12274@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.5.32.19980311124742.0087e550@ibmhelp.com> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 11, 98 12:47:42 pm Message-ID: <199803112217.RAA20714@mail.cgocable.net> Suggestions: All of that degrading data storage stuff is caused by oxygen, moisture in air, also heat makes this reaction go faster or might distorts the plastic stuff if too HOT. Also stray magnetic field hurts the magnetic based stuff. Solution: Make or buy strong air tight container, or heavy gauge bags and a sealing equipment, bottle of nitogen gas. Back up and clone everything to new top quality data storage of any types and a spare drive or two just in case original go bad. Before sealing, blow some nitogen and toss some drying packs in, seal up. Store them in light-tight and magnetic protected container where temperature is cooler. For any paper based media, clone data to acid-free paper, mylar or tyvek. Tyvek is nearly very HARD to tear and very strong. This way, your stuff will not go bad. :) When handling originals wear cotton over vinyl gloves to keep oils off and moisture if you really cared to keep them long time and this is what most musrum archives techs does when handling objects. Which means you must not have fluorsecent because it does emit UV. Rotate the storage every few years and rewrite to newer generation of storage technologies just in case to keep magnetic patterns well defined and strong. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:18:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <199803111835.KAA24247@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <13338916904.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [ATS?] ATS is Advanced Technology Services. A company off of Caterpillar. THey're all over the place. And I did get a load of interesting manuals. Some have Dick Blaudow's name on the sides, he's the guy responsible for starting the company. Oh, and another thing: After noting my intrest in VAXen, they guy in charge led me to another 11/785 hidden in an off room. It didn't boot. I got to bring it up. The 11/04 at the bottom had died: We switched out the boards inside. I had it at a SYSBOOT> prompt before I had to leave. The recruiter seemed VERY interested in me! They took my name and email-address: I get that 785 when it's decommissioned in a few months. (!) Will NetBSD run on that? ------- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 11 11:39:11 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: <19980311201951.25631.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803112229.RAA24373@mail.cgocable.net> This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: model: AE-2/C I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this part. Any good about it? Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 16:43:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338916904.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 02:18:58 pm Message-ID: <9803112243.AA19326@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/0ed4f660/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:45:27 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803112243.AA19326@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [11/03 console?] Yes, it's an 11/03. I was a number off. ------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 16:56:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Terminals in my way... References: <3.0.3.32.19980310231939.00af4a50@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <350716A6.A080C20A@bbtel.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Russ Blakeman typed: > > >To first update all of you on the three terminals I advertised before, > >the two Digitals are presently spoken for and the Visual 102 w/keyboard > >is still available. I need $5 plus shipping for it and an answer before > >the 15th or it finds a hole to fill in the nearby dump. > > Does it work, or is it fixable??? Powers up and boots to a point where it seems it wants to tie to the mainframe. Other than that it's an "as-is" deal as I have no way to test it further. It weighs 25 lbs for shipping with the keyboard. > >I also have three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals with keyboards that > >look just like new and work great. Not sure which emulations they can do > >but while going through the setup before I saw quite a few. These have a > >current loop connector as well as a 25 pin RS-232 connector on back. I > >need $10 each plus shipping (pretty light for their size) or all three > >for $25 plus shipping. I'll hang onto these as I have money into them > >(swapped for labor charge equivalent) but I do need to find out soon > >before I bury them in my storage building for a while. > > Also, are any of these still available? I may be requiring a terminal or > two in the near future... I have the two as I told you last night and each weighs 20 lbs incl keyboard. You could have both for $15 plus shipping on 40 lbs. If you want all of these it's 65 lbs shipping and the $20 for the items ($5 for the Visual, $15 for both 700/44's). I need either and address or at least a zip code to calculate the shipping by both UPS and USPS. I'll be able to give you a total for a money order once I have the zipcode. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 16:48:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [785 question] Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 17:01:42 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 02:48:02 pm Message-ID: <9803112301.AA08821@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 769 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/f3a4f465/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 11 17:08:56 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. Message-ID: <017901bd4d42$ab1d3400$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? > Hmmm, going strictly from memory, wasn't the 785 some kind of dual-processor or failsafe setup? I remember it dropped off the VMS supported hardware list back on V5.something or other. Jack Peacock From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 17:25:57 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <017901bd4d42$ab1d3400$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 11, 98 03:08:56 pm Message-ID: <9803112325.AA00659@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/f6c9af93/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 11 17:51:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. Message-ID: <13338933728.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Well, since the failed codes I got says the HDA is toast, I got to back this sucker up, real quick. I only have TU58's on the 44. I have a lot of them though. How can I tell RSTS 8.0-07 to back up to them? ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 11 19:54:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and it doesn't detect the drive at all. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 11 21:28:27 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980311212827.2a4f78a8@intellistar.net> >Return-Path: >Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:13:20 +0100 >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >From: RICCARDO >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: Re: AT&T 6300 >X-Sender: chemif@mbox.queen.it >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >At 12:54 09/03/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> >>I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have >>the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with >>the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle >>section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of >>the drives in the system. >About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these >positions, like the Olivetti version have? I've wondered about those too. There are several AT&Ts in a trift store here and some have the red covers and some have a second drive in that position. I guess it's just a blank cover. Joe > > > >???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? >? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? >? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? >? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? >? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? >???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 11 20:35:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Free 8-inch floppies in South Australia Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980311203502.00b60420@pc> Subject: OLD 8 inch floppy disks please take 'em. From: aek Date: 1998/03/10 Message-ID: <350600A1.A84@all-electric.com> Newsgroups: aus.ads.forsale.computers.used,aus.electronics Y-ellow Y'all I have an unknown number of old 8 inch floppies in 10 boxes. Some are Burroughs brand others are verbatum. Plus two old disk cleaning kits. I guess you could use the cleaning disks but the rest of the stuff looks crusty. Take 'em away or pay the COD if you really want 'em. If no-one want's 'em they're beyond history. Batz ________ _ _ / ____|| | // AEK C/o / /| |____ | |// 11 Henley Beach Road _-_|\ / __ ____|| < Henley Beach / \ / / | |____ | \ \ South Australia 5022 \_.-*_/ / / |______|| |\ \ (+618) 8356 4081 v All Electric Kitchen http://www.all-electric.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 22:02:02 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300 References: <3.0.1.16.19980311212827.2a4f78a8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35075E3A.6BB8D574@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > >>I don't recall if there was a "WGS" or not (in storage now) but it does have > >>the 25 pin video connector. The color scheme is brownish-black base with > >>the top being approx 1 1/2" white bordered and about half of the middle > >>section being black, the other half, or course, depending on the color of > >>the drives in the system. > >About the drives bay(s), have anyone a transparent-red HD cover in these > >positions, like the Olivetti version have? > > I've wondered about those too. There are several AT&Ts in a trift store > here and some have the red covers and some have a second drive in that > position. I guess it's just a blank cover. Nope, there's a hard disk behind and the access LED shines through it. The separator between the two areas,floppy and ruby blank should normally show an A: and a C: on it. They usually have an Olliveti hard disk, 5.25" half height similar to the ST-225. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 11 22:07:43 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: X1541 cable In-Reply-To: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. >Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and >it doesn't detect the drive at all. Sounds like you might have the problem I had when I made mine. Try to ensure you aren't looking at the instructions on how to make it backwards, which results in the wires being wrong. IIRC one of the plugs is shown the opposite of what you would expect. Once I fixed that I was able to see it with SC. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 11 22:23:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: CP/M for free... Message-ID: <35076353.A665047B@bbtel.com> Just wanted to let everyone know that Caldera, which now owns all Digital Research software, has made CP/M freely available! I discovered this by accident when I went to download OpenDOS. Check it out at: http://www.caldera.com/dos/html/legacyindex.html They have a link to an unofficial CP/M page with tons of other software. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 11 22:33:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history Message-ID: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> <>> And not so recently starting with the AT and all after the keyboard <>> interface chip is a slave cpu (8041a or 8042). <> <>Well, my 8089 data sheet is copyright 1980, 8041 series predates the 8089. Also the 8089 still needs the page register as it's limited to 20 bit addressing when it's used with 286 and later parts. I may add the 8089 was no fun to use. Allison From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 22:50:34 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13338933728.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 03:51:23 pm Message-ID: <9803120450.AA01519@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/02d44963/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 11 23:27:39 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Slow week Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980311232739.006c5bec@pop3.concentric.net> Well this has been really a slow wek on the finds. today I picked up IBM 6156 portable disk drive bay that holds 3 drives for the IBM RT PC. I got the user manual and the service manual with it for $25 at Goodwill. Picked up a MAc 512ke unit that I've been looking for at a thrift for 80 cents does not work, no screen display. Picked a complete manual set for the NCR PC6 along with 4 setup disk. A AST Bravo/286 for 80 cents without monitor or key broad have not tested it yet. today I also picked about 30 books and manuals covering all makes of hardware and some software titles. I've got hurry and a warehouse setup for the museum. Well that's it for now I will list some of the other items later. Keep computing !! John From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 11 23:43:59 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: <199803112229.RAA24373@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: > > model: AE-2/C > > I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this > part. Ah, my old favorite. This card will run under LANtastic 5.0 with unlimited licenses (when you bought this card, you bought a license to use LANtastic; if you bought a third party card you had to buy the "adapter independent" version of LANtastic which was a limited license product). As for adding TP to it, I don't know if there is also some hardware modification you have make to enable it for TP operation. The drivers for this card come with LANtastic 5.0, 6.0 and 7.0. All the same I could get you the drivers, for LANtastic at least. I can also get you a copy of the unlimited license of version 5.0. I don't know if any drivers were ever written for it for Novell. Windows 95 has drivers natively. My guess is that NT has them too although I can't check at the moment. However, if this card is anything like the NodeRunner card (which replaced the AE series cards) and can be configured for NE2000 mode, you can only run it in NE2000 mode using an 8-bit interrupt (ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 7). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 11 23:59:52 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Free 8-inch floppies in South Australia In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980311203502.00b60420@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 11, 98 08:35:02 pm Message-ID: <9803120559.AA01681@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 231 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980311/83e2a5a4/attachment.ksh From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Mar 12 01:48:01 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> References: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> Message-ID: <350791d7.453845@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:33:11 -0500, you said: >I may add the 8089 was no fun to use. I went to an Intel class (1986, IIRC, titled "Microprocessor Base Architecture") which was based on the 8086 & 8088. The instructor voiced the same opinion, and praised the 80286. I vaguely recall that the 80186 is a 8086-8089 marriage.?.? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Mar 12 06:10:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:38 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980312071013.0068bc54@mail.wincom.net> Hi, gang: Check out the NY Times article at http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html Regards Charlie Fox From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Thu Mar 12 06:56:51 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <01bd4db6$535c81c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox > Check out the NY Times article at >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html > I note that the registration page for their site says that registration is free to US residents, so will I get a bill ;-) Although the following page says that there is no need to register at this time, if I enter the URL given I keep getting thrown back to the registration page. What is the article about? Regards Pete From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 08:29:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803120450.AA01519@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339093530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [600 tapes?] Just to get [0,*] and [1,*]? Doesn't matter anyway, I just blew a class and it'll cost me 3 weeks... I should have been doing NDD instead! I had a few assignments on a disk, and 95 barfed on the FAT for some reason... I thought I could just turn them in late... WRONG! Oh, well... These things happen... If I get to install 9-track tape, I may as well just go scare up a 1600 BPI controller and install from the distrib tape. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 12 09:09:03 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980312090903.00badcc0@pc> lfb107@psu.edu (Les Berry) wrote: >I know I saw a post on this a while back but I don't recall >any of the suggestions for preserving old floppies. I've archived a number of my Terak 8-inch floppies by sending a disk image out the serial port, and capturing on a PC. I also wrote utilities to extract the files and get directories from these disk images containing UCSD P-System and RT-11 file systems. See my web page for more info. It would be great if there were a highly portable program that could be adapted easily to any system that would somehow (serial, Ethernet, file system, etc.) make a copy of all the blocks on a device. Of course, some operating systems already have such utilities that can be called into service for this task, but I think we need something that goes a bit deeper. For example, old media tends to have errors. This block-transfer program (and perhaps its resulting disk image) need to be smart enough to mark some blocks as "known bad" to let external programs work around the problem. Various built-in block-copy programs might react to this error in different ways, none of them pleasant to the data restoration task, of course. Most emulators can use a pristine disk image. Some emulators for archaic computers have developed their own formats for storing floppy, hard disk and tape images. Tim Shoppa wrote: >I don't understand the difficulties here. You make a sector-by-sector >image of the 8-inch floppy and store it on whatever medium you regard >as being more archival. This is done quite easily on every system >I know with an 8-inch floppy drive; if you're having difficulties, let >us know your hardware and OS and a solution will be found. It would be great if there were more utilities that could operate on these floppy/hard/paper/cassette/N-track images: reading and writing files to them, getting directories of them, etc. jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: >For any paper based media, clone data to acid-free paper, mylar >or tyvek. Tyvek is nearly very HARD to tear and very strong. Paper-based media? You mean manuals, or Cauzin soft-strips? :-) Laser-printer and even some copier toners drive me bananas; a little heat or pressure or out-gassing plastic nearby and they fuse pages together or flake toner particles. >Also stray magnetic field hurts the magnetic based stuff. I may be completely off-base about this, but I've always regarded this as an urban legend, too. Go ahead, try to damage the bits on a floppy with a refrigerator magnet. It's not the same as a bulk eraser. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 12 08:37:26 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980312083726.00ba47e0@pc> "Max Eskin" wrote: >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. Hmm. Mine worked the first time, after I tried each of the parallel port modes on my motherboard. Did you try varying those? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 09:41:16 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339093530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 06:29:12 am Message-ID: <9803121541.AA01998@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 379 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/d1785a67/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Thu Mar 12 10:33:09 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980312071013.0068bc54@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980312083309.00f57c40@pop.batnet.com> At 07:10 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > Check out the NY Times article at >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/circuits/articles/12die.html I'd just like to add that the new Circuits section, every Thursday morning in the NY Times, makes very good reading in its entirety. When you combine Circuits with the Monday morning Business Day, which is all about IS and info industry, and the two personal-computing articles in Tuesday's Science Times, it means that the NYT is taking computing quite seriously -- after (IMNSHO) being slow to wake to the implications in the late eighties/early nineties. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 11:31:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803121541.AA01998@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339126630.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Can't boot from tu58] That's right. Oh, s**t. Time to get more creative - How about RX02s? :) OK, I'll go dig up a tape drive from somewhere. Maybe I'll steal the one from the 34A. I do have an Emulex controller that looks like it talks Pertec-Formatted, and a Pertec-Formatted device of unknown health... I'll go dig up model numbers later. ------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Mar 12 10:21:43 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable In-Reply-To: References: <19980312015406.3374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803121736.LAA23409@onyx.southwind.net> Guys: You know, I tried to make one of these beasties wired both frontward *and* backward, and neither configuration (on either machine) worked. Judging by the decidedly iffy nature of the Commodore serial port, I have come to the conclusion that on certain machines it is not possible to make this work! Does anyone agree with this, or am I just a blithering idiot? Jeff > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:07:43 -0800 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: X1541 cable > >This is the second time I've made one, and it STILL doesn't work. > >Neither do I want to buy one. Hints? I am using StarCommander and > >it doesn't detect the drive at all. > > Sounds like you might have the problem I had when I made mine. Try to > ensure you aren't looking at the instructions on how to make it backwards, > which results in the wires being wrong. IIRC one of the plugs is shown the > opposite of what you would expect. Once I fixed that I was able to see it > with SC. > > Zane From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 12:31:50 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339126630.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 09:31:02 am Message-ID: <9803121831.AA02922@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/f0ffecc9/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 12:34:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803121831.AA02922@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339138153.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Spare RA80/81] Hmm... I have to replace this one anyway... It'd be not too hard... I already have a RA82 HDA (But someone swiped the logic off the top...) maybe I can find the rest of it? How about a RA90? I know I can get one... What are those, anyway? That may be the way to go! I wouldn't have to drag a 9-track up here either! ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 12:47:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803120433.AA20620@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 11, 98 11:33:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 991 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/bac97e96/attachment.ksh From rnjslonneger at worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 12 14:18:02 1998 From: rnjslonneger at worldnet.att.net (Ron and Jean Slonneger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer Message-ID: I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. Components: 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV output board and power supply. 2 Keyboard 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive 4 19" monitor for output 5 Modem 6 Documentation I would like to donate it. Interested? Ron Slonneger Peoria, IL From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 12 14:52:40 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer Message-ID: <1998Mar12.155153.1767.87819@smtp.itgonline.com> I'm interested. Please email me: marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: digital group Z80 computer Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/12/98 3:38 PM I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. Components: 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV output board and power supply. 2 Keyboard 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive 4 19" monitor for output 5 Modem 6 Documentation I would like to donate it. Interested? Ron Slonneger Peoria, IL ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar12.153824.1767.31402; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:38:26 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA24850; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:30:10 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA04756 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:29:39 -0800 Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.33]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA27054 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:29:38 -0800 Received: from [12.66.3.50] by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28480; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:18:13 +0000 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:18:02 -0600 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ron and Jean Slonneger To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: digital group Z80 computer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu, Anthony Clifton , tcarlson@ncsc.dni.us X-Sender: rnjslonneger@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From archive at navix.net Thu Mar 12 17:14:34 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer References: Message-ID: <35086C59.500EE0A6@navix.net> I'm very interested in your Z80 computer.. please e-mail me at archive@navix.net Thanks, CORD COSLOR Ron and Jean Slonneger wrote: > I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just > set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital > group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K > memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from > Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. > > Components: > 1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV > output board and power supply. > 2 Keyboard > 3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive > 4 19" monitor for output > 5 Modem > 6 Documentation > > I would like to donate it. Interested? > > Ron Slonneger > Peoria, IL -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Mar 12 15:42:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: X1541 cable Message-ID: <19980312214220.2609.qmail@hotmail.com> I thought it could only work in standard mode, but I will rotate them and see. Could it be an weird parallel port? Also, what is the assembly languge command for the line that is used for data on X1541? (SELECT IN line) > >Hmm. Mine worked the first time, after I tried each of the parallel port >modes on my motherboard. Did you try varying those? > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 12 15:45:31 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <13339138153.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 12, 98 10:34:20 am Message-ID: <9803122145.AA12466@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/2af3f206/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 12 15:59:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Backing up RSTS. In-Reply-To: <9803122145.AA12466@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339175493.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [9-track is easier to archive...] Yeah, but I'd have to scare up a controller, see if the drive works, drag it up a flight of stairs, get that to work, then boot and back up from a bad HDA to the tape. Then run from the tape once that HDA dies. I'll probably end up getting both... ------- From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 12 16:41:37 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: That NY Times article that Charles Fox mentioned requires a username and password to access. Charles, could you pull that from the web site and post it here for all to see? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Mar 12 17:32:57 1998 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: DEC 5500 Message-ID: <5b7755bb.350870ab@aol.com> On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Nick Amato wrote: >I have the opportunity to snarf a DEC 5500 for free. This is a >refrigerator-sized Q-bus machine that runs an old version of >Ultrix (which is 4.2 BSD based). > >There are several cages of disks in the package. Supposedly, >around 2 GB total storage. And, a few DECprinters (9-pin dot matrix). > >And, I'm told that it boots. > >Has anyone had any sort of experience with one of these? > Yeh, I've got one, and even better, the book for it. It uses the KN220 CPU module set running at 30MHz, 32 bit data path It has Ehternet support (both AUI and thinwire) using the DESQA controller. It supports DEC's DSSI drives (i.e. RF71 380M, RF72 1G) and will mount three of these in the BA213 cabinet Mine supports SCSI drives (i.e. RZ55 300M, RZ56 600M) and has an iterface for external drives It will support DEC's SDI drives (i.e. RA series) using a KDA50 module set. It has a serial console port using DEC's MMJ connector Mine has a TK70 tape drive using a TQK70 controller It will support the TK50Z tape drive on the SCSI bus or the TK50 drive using a TQK50 contoller It will support the TLZ04 tape drive on the SCSI bus It will support the TU81 tape drive using a KLESI controller (I think I have a spare controller somewhere.) Mine has two MS220-AA 32 Mbyte memory boards, I think it supports 4 total It supports the Ultrix operating system, version 4.0 or later. This is the same as for the DS2100/3100, 5000, and 5400. By all means snarf it up. Mike From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Mar 12 18:41:45 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: <5b7755bb.350870ab@aol.com> Message-ID: In repairing the SWTPC 6800 MP-A CPU board, I've discovered I THINK that a 7474 which is used to generate NOT HALT to the CPU (and to halt it under certain circumstances) is keeping the CPU halted all the time even though the bus says there's no reason for it to be halted. Here's why and I want someone to tear apart my logic before I desolder the 7474 and replace it: Preset and Clear are high, which makes them inactive. The clock is pulsing high (IE present positive edges) to the clock input. D, which is high, should be clocked into Q so that it should be high as well under these circumstances, telling the CPU to NOT HALT. Instead, Q is low and NOT Q is high which is the reverse of what SHOULD be the case. What's the deal? Bad 7474? Or is my thinking SCREWED UP? IF my thinking is correct and my suspicion that the 7474 is bad, is it safe to replace it with a 74LS74? A friend of mine and I had a long conversation about what you can replace with what and I've forgotten what he told me about that. If I'm goofy in the head, let me know and let me know why. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From peacock at simconv.com Thu Mar 12 18:01:29 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS Message-ID: <000601bd4e13$2cff83d0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Instead, Q is low and NOT Q is high which is the reverse of what SHOULD >be the case. What's the deal? Bad 7474? Or is my thinking SCREWED UP? > >IF my thinking is correct and my suspicion that the 7474 is bad, is it >safe to replace it with a 74LS74? A friend of mine and I had a long >conversation about what you can replace with what and I've forgotten >what he told me about that. > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is hitting the R* input Anyway, I'd take it out and put in a socket if you think its most likely cause Jack Peacock From jmg at iac.net Thu Mar 12 18:27:29 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Sun3x boot prom Message-ID: <199803130027.TAA26420@mail.iac.net> Anyone remember how to set the default boot drive on a Sun3? This is not a Sun4, so the monitor commands are completely different from anything manufactured in the last ten years.... Thanks! --jmg From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Mar 12 19:27:57 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: <000601bd4e13$2cff83d0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) > should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast > pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if > memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic > probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? > maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC > driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is > hitting the R* input OK, here's the pins, what the logic probe says and what the voltmeter says: Pin Correct Name Rough Name State Voltage 8 2NOTQ Not Q Output High 3.93v 9 2Q Q Ouput Low 0.13v 10 2Set Preset High 4.99v 11 2Clk Clock Pulsing High 4.34v 12 2D Input High 5.02v 13 2Cr Clear High 5.00v D is driven directly from the bus so there's no chip driving it and the bus voltage looks fine. According to "Interfacing Microcomputers to the Real World" by Sargent and Shoemaker (the only thing I have that talks about the 7474 in detail, "The basic idea is this: with the clear and preset inputs high (not active), a transition of the clock input from low to high (called a positive edge) "clocks" the value of D into Q and the inverse into NOT Q. The clock transition is required; D can do anything it wants to, but nothing will happen to Q and NOT Q unless the clock has a positive edge." And the clock input is pulsing high so that's supposed to be positive edges. [THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!!!! SERIOUSLY!!! =-) ] And I don't see any fast pulse on any of the inputs that are supposed to stay stable. But what doesn't make sense to me is why the flip flop would fail in such a way that the outputs would be reversed with appropriate voltages. I feel I must be missing something but the poor thing is being driven in a pretty direct fashion...IE not alot of chips in the way and all the inputs look correct. I think I'm going to socket the thing and replace it with a 74LS74...if after two or three swaps (just for giggles) I get the same response, well then I guess I did miss something somewhere else. =-) In either case, I guess it's never a bad idea to socket things when you have an excuse in case something DOES go goofy. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From mike at boink.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 18:37:42 1998 From: mike at boink.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80K Message-ID: <01bd4e18$3be22560$c71a989e@pent-1> Just in case you're interested, I've set up a sharp MZ-80K oriented site (below). If you have any information which may be suitable for inclusion, please let me know. Thanks -- Mike http://www.boink.demon.co.uk/sharp/ From afritz at iname.com Thu Mar 12 19:34:44 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Pericom MX7200... Message-ID: Can someone tell me what this thing is? It was a freebie (a appearnlty rightly so). It's got a genuine MC68000P12 in it. When I plug the video in and turn it on, it just sits at a blank screen with a flashing cursor in the corner. I've gathered that it's somesort of graphics workstation but I know nothing more. Thanks, Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ---------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 12 17:42:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS In-Reply-To: from "Wirehead Prime" at Mar 12, 98 06:41:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2712 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980312/e7b88f88/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Mar 12 21:18:26 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3538a49c.1117165509@hoser> My best friend in high school built one of those - it was really cool. His had "phi-deck" high-speed cassette tape drives - it always looked so busy and efficient whirring the tapes back and forth and loading and unloading the heads. I built an IMSAI 8080 at the same time. I'd love to have a digital group system to go with it. I'd give yours a good home with my IMSAI and my Heathkit H-89. What do you say? If there's a lot of interest, maybe you should hold an auction... On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:18:02 -0600, you wrote: >I have a Z80 computer that I built from a kit in 1978 and I hate to just >set it on the curb and scrap it. It was designed and sold by 'the digital >group' of Denver, CO. It has a Z80 8 bit microprocessor, 2.5 mh, 64K >memory, 80 X 24 output to a monitor, dual 8" floppy drives added later from >Bell Controls of CA and a CPM operating system. > >Components: >1 Cabinet containing processor board, memory boards, disk I/O boards, TV >output board and power supply. >2 Keyboard >3 Dual 8" floppy disk drive >4 19" monitor for output >5 Modem >6 Documentation > >I would like to donate it. Interested? > >Ron Slonneger >Peoria, IL > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Mar 12 21:24:10 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have this old network card: Artisoft Ethernet adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <353ba614.1117542100@hoser> I don't know about adding twisted-pair capability; I would think you would need some sort of balun on the card, too. But yes, these cards can run in NE-2 mode, and are supported by Windows 95, NT, Windows for Workgroups, and even Linux. Most of my home network is using them in that mode. I got a bunch cheap when a business here in town switched to a different setup. On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:43:59 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > >> This is old 1991 16bit ethernet card: >> >> model: AE-2/C >> >> I would like to add TP feature to it as it has solder pads for this >> part. >moment. However, if this card is anything like the NodeRunner card (which >replaced the AE series cards) and can be configured for NE2000 mode, you >can only run it in NE2000 mode using an 8-bit interrupt (ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, >7). > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 21:32:18 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > See ya later, I'm gonna see what else I can find! You, sir, have not seen many real computer rooms. Some of the plainest looking buildings have the most impressive computer rooms. Of those that I frequent, the best have been MCI sites (old things - VAXen, HP1000s, IBM S/1s, etc.), banks (big IBM iron, _including_ S/360 remnants), and AOL (yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of serious machines, but all recent). William Donzelli william@ans.net From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz Thu Mar 12 22:54:28 1998 From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 4P gate array help Message-ID: Ok...here's the problem The machine come up with garbage on the screen.It would also seem that the video is inverted, I can see the retrace lines etc, so the horizontal blanking is not working either by the looks of it. What I suspect is wrong is that either U42 (the 6845 labeled in my machine as a motorola SC80757P) or U102 (the 4.3 video support chip) is faulty (or both?). Does anyone have any info on U102 (what is it..can I get another?) or any other thoughts. Some other notes are. 1. It seems to boot (I get a very crappy tandy logo in inverse on the screen) though the screen is so unstable as to be unreadable. 2. It does not matter if it is in 64 or 80 column mode, the video is still crap. 3. I suppose the Char generator rom could also be a problem Any help would be appreciated. BTW does anyone have the diagnostic disc for the 4/4P ? Cheers +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 12 22:01:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: <3538a49c.1117165509@hoser> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > My best friend in high school built one of those - it was really cool. > His had "phi-deck" high-speed cassette tape drives - it always looked > so busy and efficient whirring the tapes back and forth and loading > and unloading the heads. I built an IMSAI 8080 at the same time. I'd > love to have a digital group system to go with it. I'd give yours a > good home with my IMSAI and my Heathkit H-89. What do you say? If > there's a lot of interest, maybe you should hold an auction... Haggle Online (www.haggle.com) has a "private auction" category that lets you create an auction that doesn't get listed in any of the public categories so you can duke it out among yourselves if you list it there (and it's free). Speaking of IMSAI's, I just bought a PROM/RAM board from somebody (it's on its way) without knowing exactly what it is (that's my standard MO). All I know is that it's a Vector Graphics board for an IMSAI (and comes with the original receipt from IMS, as well as an original IMSAI catalog!) and I can tell from Bill R's Tandy catalog (http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/Tandy_TOC_Frames_Page.htm) that it was intended as a front-panel replacement (are your fingers red and swolen?). My guess is that a PROM/RAM board is sort of a ROM emulator. Am I close, or is it just a board that can handle PROMs and RAMs? -- Doug From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 22:45:20 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yep, two parts I have found so far 240v, and need to be replaced... I > suppose it shouldn't be too hard to find replacement motors, but some of > the other stuff will be interesting... Just curious... Why not run a 240 V circuit to the S/1? Depending on the local electrical code, it would be either easy, or very easy. Do not let the 240 scare you. That, or get a transformer to get the 240 V from a normal 120 V line. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Thu Mar 12 22:59:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: (Another cheap way to start a dumb thread) I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come up with for the hardware... S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, RS/6000, ES/9000 Are there any I missed? William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 12 23:52:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: References: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >(yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of >serious machines, but all recent). Ah, you mean their collection of Auspex File Servers, they are one of Auspexes two major customers. Interesting Hardware, I got to check out the hardware on their latest yesterday, they're really packing the drives in the new machines. Still trying to figure out how all the data on the new machines can be backed up in a timely manner. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 12 23:52:25 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 12, 98 11:59:57 pm Message-ID: <199803130552.AAA23241@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great William Donzelli once stated: > > I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was > wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come > up with for the hardware... > > S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, > S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, > S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, > RS/6000, ES/9000 You forgot the AS/400 series. -spc (Very interesting machines - optimized for DB work down to the instruction and hardware level. Simply amazing stuff ... ) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Mar 12 19:16:30 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <199803130552.AAA23241@armigeron.com> References: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 12, 98 11:59:57 pm Message-ID: <199803130609.BAA11659@mail.cgocable.net> > It was thus said that the Great William Donzelli once stated: > > > > I came across a thread on a newsgroup about IBM naming schemes, and was > > wondering about all of the Systems/ and Series/. This is what I could come > > up with for the hardware... > > > > S/1, PS/1, PS/2, S/3, S/4, > > S/23, S/32, S/34, S/36, S/38, S/88, > > S/360, S/370, S/390, AS/400, > > RS/6000, ES/9000 Bzzzzzzzzztttttttttttt!! > > You forgot the AS/400 series. There's one already! Jason D. > > -spc (Very interesting machines - optimized for DB work down to the > instruction and hardware level. Simply amazing stuff ... ) > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 00:17:11 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... Message-ID: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy connectors. I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: SMC-70G Micro Computer ??????? Genlocker SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? SMI-7075 Videotizer Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone has them!) The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. Thanks, Adam ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) http://afritz.base.org/ From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 13 00:15:27 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <199803130609.BAA11659@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Mar 13, 98 01:16:30 am Message-ID: <199803130615.BAA23289@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: > > > You forgot the AS/400 series. > There's one already! Oops. Missed it. -spc (Blarg) From sar at know-it-all.com Fri Mar 13 02:18:12 1998 From: sar at know-it-all.com (Scott A. Rossell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Okay, it's been awhile, but.... Message-ID: <01bd4e58$90d35720$fe6642a7@005019.scrippshealth.org> Is there any chance you still have that Timex/Sinclair for sale that you were talking about eight months ago? DOOD! -Scott A. Rossell- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/58856cd0/attachment.html From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Fri Mar 13 03:47:57 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article Message-ID: <01bd4e65$1a6c23c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> I got into the web site today, out of interest, and went as far as the registration page which is working today. They want $35 per month from foreigners just to enter the site :-( Regards Pete From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Mar 13 05:31:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980313063113.006abbe4@mail.wincom.net> At 02:41 PM 3/12/98 -0800, you wrote: > >That NY Times article that Charles Fox mentioned requires a username and >password to access. Charles, could you pull that from the web site and >post it here for all to see? > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > Hi,Sam: When I went after that article early yesterday morning I got in OK, but when I tried later was rejected...not being in the U.S. I was interested as a result of providing a little information on a Samsung S300 for one of the writers. As an aside, the computer video ran on local cable but I have not had much feedback. At present I am starting another one: "Seventy five years of home movies". Regards Charlie Fox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/53d21fd6/12die.htm -------------- next part -------------- March 12, 1998 Where Do Computers Go When They Die? By CAREY GOLDBERG f Americans treated dead people the way they treat dead computers, their basements and closets would be cluttered with family corpses. Under many a desk, there would be a cadaver crammed into the arch meant for knees. Whole warehouses and offices would function as ad hoc mausoleums. RELATED ARTICLES In the Beginning, There Was Kaypro (Requires Flash plug-in from Macromedia) If You Can Bring Yourself to Part With It . . . 10 Uses for a Dead Computer Fish tank. But it s a lot of work to make it waterproof. Litter box. If your kitty isn t too picky. Decoration. Chips and circuit boards can be made into earrings and clipboards. Gold mine. Many 60 s units used a fair amount of gold. Furniture. Use it as doorstop or high-tech hassock. Reincarnation. Use it to play old games or upgrade it to use as a backup device or personal Web server. Planet saver. Recycle it and feel noble. Source of cash. But not much. Sell it to a secondhand-computer shop. Gift. If it s still breathing, donate it to a good cause or give it to a friend or relative. Boat anchor.
The New York Times
And only the diligent few, whether out of conscience or lack of space, would dispose of the departed properly. The rest, unable to let go or to find a proper resting place, would offer excuses like, "He cost me so much money in life. I can't accept that he's worthless now!" and, "She was a formative influence in my youth. How can I dump her?" Of course, it makes about as much sense to do nothing with antiquated computers as it did for the eccentric family in John Irving's "Hotel New Hampshire" to stuff their dead little dog and keep him around the house long after his barking and fetching days were past. Yet researchers believe that roughly 14 million to 20 million computers are retired each year in this country, and of those, a 1995 Tufts University thesis estimated, nearly 75 percent are simply stockpiled, taking their place on obscure shelves, under Ping-Pong tables, in unused offices, in hallways. Only 10 percent to 15 percent of them will be re-used or recycled, studies indicated, and 15 percent end up in landfills. True, those numbers are changing, say many involved in the burgeoning businesses of giving old computers new life. In the last few years, thousands of computer reselling and recycling outfits have cropped up around the country, a recent Rand Corp. report said. And the stream those resellers and recyclers depend on -- of functional but dull-edged castoffs -- has swollen as the typical active life span of a new computer in its original work setting has shrunk to as little as two or three years. The companies that funnel older computers to schools and to the technologically needy have been multiplying and are becoming an increasingly national phenomenon, spurred by new tax incentives and the sheer volume of discards. Whole directories on the Internet list groups that take old computers. One of the largest such funnelers, the Detwiler Foundation, based in San Diego, has already placed 37,000 computers in California schools and is branching out into at least nine other states. The federal government is running a program, Computers for Learning, to place hundreds of thousands of old government computers in schools. "When you're flushing a million computers out every year, they disappear like ink into blotting paper," said Clive Smith, chief executive officer of New Deal, a Cambridge, Mass., company specializing in software that lets older computers act like newer ones. "When you're flushing 10 million a year, the market mechanisms have to emerge to deal with it." And emerging they are. But the juiciest mystery inherent in "closetware," as some call the squirreled-away old computers, is why it has taken so long, and why, even now, so few older computers are promptly resold or donated. Credit: Keith Meyers / The New York Times Computers await meltdown. Certainly, those in the business say, owners' emotional attachment to old computers plays a role. At the East West Education Development Foundation, a Boston nonprofit company that refurbishes and supplies old computers to good causes, the president, Stephen Farrell, said that for donors who bring in their obsolete machines, "it's like bringing your dog to be euthanized -- it's really hard to part with." Brigitte Jordan, a corporate anthropologist and principal scientist at Xerox's research center in Palo Alto, Calif., speculated that owners' attachments to their computers went beyond even the powerful attachments they can form to their cars, in part because computers are so much more interactive and in part because the machines can become repositories of parts of their owners' lives. Of her own first computer, Ms. Jordan said: "It had not only my work on it but my poems and stories on it. It had on it a sort of snapshot of my life at that time, and when I got a new machine, not all of that got transferred. Somehow, in the transition from one machine to another, some piece of my life got lost. It's like losing a photo album." Personal attachments to personal computers are one thing; professional ones are another. Love of machine can be so great that operators of early computers, like the room-size Univac, have been known to take them home when they were decommissioned, said Oliver Strimpel, director of the Computer Museum in Boston. At the museum's Silicon Valley historical collection in Mountain View, Calif., he said, "I've seen people hugging disk drives and computers like long-lost friends they've spent big parts of their lives with." Also seemingly at work in owners' clinging to their computers is a certain inability to accept the harsh economic reality of computer depreciation -- the fact that a machine that cost $3,000 just four years ago is now worth less than $100. In 1991, H. Scott Matthews, then an undergraduate student at Carnegie Mellon University, helped produce a study that predicted that by 2005, 150 million computers would be cluttering the country's landfills. Last year, Matthews returned to the much-quoted study, re-evaluated its predictions based on updated figures and lowered that projection, to 55 million. He and his co-authors cited the "second life" given computers by newly established markets for recycled electronic goods as a central reason for the revised estimate. But the biggest reason for the change, he said, was something else: "I think the fundamental behavioral issue we did not consider in the first paper, that we do now, is that people don't want to throw away anything that they think has value. If you have something you paid a couple of thousand of dollars for, you're going to have a hard time throwing it away, even if you don't use it anymore." Especially if it still works fine. But aren't Americans supposed to be experts at throwing things away? Credit: Ed Quinn for The New York Times Scott Cole of Boston with old mice. "This is the opposite of the disposable society," said Matthews, now a doctoral candidate in economics at Carnegie Mellon's Green Design Initiative. "This is the attic society." Robert Dangelmeyer, a service manager for the Digital Equipment Corp., said that according to four computer-price databases he had examined, computers tended to lose 80 percent of their market value in the first year after purchase. Then their worth levels out for a year or so, he said, before plunging practically to zero. That hurts both individuals and institutions or businesses. In 1993, said Kenneth D. Campbell, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the university bought a supercomputer for its Laboratory for Computer Science that at that point was the 17th-most-powerful computer in the world. It cost $3.8 million. When the computer, the CM5, was shut down four years later, still the 497th-most-powerful computer in the world, he said, the best offer the university could get for it was $750. It decided to donate it to the Computer Museum instead. Museums and collectors, however, generally seek only rare and historically valuable computers. Strimpel, of the Computer Museum, said that any machine produced before 1960 was generally worth preserving; some from the 1960s, like the IBM System 360 series, are and some aren't. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 06:39:11 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 4P gate array help In-Reply-To: Keith Whitehead "TRS80 Model 4P gate array help" (Mar 13, 16:54) References: Message-ID: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 13, 16:54, Keith Whitehead wrote: > Ok...here's the problem > The machine come up with garbage on the screen.It would also seem that the > video is inverted, I can see the retrace lines etc, so the horizontal > blanking is not working either by the looks of it. > > What I suspect is wrong is that either U42 (the 6845 labeled in my machine > as a motorola SC80757P) or U102 (the 4.3 video support chip) is faulty (or > both?). The 6845 isn't much more than a programmable video timing generator. Since you have *some* video, it's unlikely to be at fault. It could be a memory-addressing problem, or a bad connection, or... My first suggestion would be to *gently* prise each socketed chip from it's socket, and reseat them all. This helps clean any oxidation off the pins at the point of contact. Used to be a favourite problem with Apple ]['s, but it's a widely-applicable technique. I don't wish to teach my granny to suck eggs, but I'd also suggest you take care that *all* the pins go back in the socket when you reseat anything; it's not hard to bend a pin underneath sometimes. For many years I was a component-level repair technician for an education authority, and I once had someone bring me a malfunctioning machine which had that problem. When I pointed it out, the response was "but NEARLY all the pins are in, and it doesn't work AT ALL". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 06:56:17 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: digital group Z80 computer In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza "Re: digital group Z80 computer" (Mar 12, 22:01) References: Message-ID: <9803131256.ZM19884@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 12, 22:01, Doug Yowza wrote: > Speaking of IMSAI's, I just bought a PROM/RAM board from somebody (it's on > its way) without knowing exactly what it is (that's my standard MO). All > I know is that it's a Vector Graphics board for an IMSAI (and comes with > the original receipt from IMS, as well as an original IMSAI catalog!) and > I can tell from Bill R's Tandy catalog > (http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/Tandy_TOC_Frames_Page.htm) > that it was intended as a front-panel replacement (are your fingers red > and swolen?). > > My guess is that a PROM/RAM board is sort of a ROM emulator. Am I close, > or is it just a board that can handle PROMs and RAMs? I'd expect it's just a board that can hold either PROMs or static RAM. A "ROM emulator" usually refers to some plug-in device, often controlled by a logic analyser or EPROM programmer with a ribbon cable, that pretends to be a ROM. Used for development purposes: instead of switching the machine off, counting to 15, pulling the EPROM, blowing another, fitting it, straightening the pins, fitting it again, powerering up... you can modify the code on the fly (or while the machine is halted). Do you mean it's a board that can do vector graphics, or that it was made by "Vector Graphics"? I assume the latter, as the former doesn't fit with the rest of your description. A "front panel replacement" usually means a ROM/PROM/EPROM board with bootstrap and perhaps monitor code, so you could type simple commands and get a (textual) response on a VDU instead of having to toggle the switches and watch the blinkenlights. Quite often, ROM boards could be could be jumpered for different addresses, not just a bootstrap address, and sometimes they could hold byte-wide static RAM instead of byte-wide EPROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 13 08:19:12 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... References: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> Message-ID: <35094060.4107E704@crl.com> Adam Fritzler wrote: > > I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems > to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy > connectors. > > I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these > things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: > > SMC-70G Micro Computer > ??????? Genlocker > SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit > SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer > SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? > SMI-7075 Videotizer I have two of the SMI-7050 disk cache units, plus a SMI-7031 RS232 Interface unit. Seems you got all the interesting modules ;) Also, I've got a still sealed in plastic dual floppy drive unit. Maybe the ones installed in the unit are bad? Someone has put a sticker on the system that says, "Ship back to Sony." > > Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that > equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone > has them!) > > The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I > get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't > currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. Mine seems functional too, as I get typical bootstrap activities, but I don't have a video cable to see what's really going on. Can anyone tell me the pinout so I can make one? And of course, if I get video, I'll too need help with software... I've found very little mention of this machine via search engines. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From mor at crl.com Fri Mar 13 08:16:07 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment Message-ID: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: - Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) - Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) - Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you buy? -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 13 08:50:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:39 2005 Subject: VAXServers Message-ID: <199803131450.AA23052@world.std.com> Recently there were a number of VAXservers offered from VCC. The disposition is they are gone. Some comments for those that are curious. They were VAXservers (KA410e) meaning they do not have the graphic console and they are old and as 3100s go slow. Compared to a m30, m38, m80 series these are the slowest models. So if you not familiar with VAXen...they were designed and intended as cheap servers. Each one weights about 20-25 pounds basic weight of the 3100 pizza box regardless of model. I priced packaging and shipping in the USA as $30-50 each (even the tape drives weigh alot!). Thy may be small but they weigh a lot. That's a lot of money. I can't deal with it. So I'm not into shipping them. Many people wanted one shipped from VCC and none took into account that the source had a job to do and no time or resources to pack them and send them to indiviuals for free and there was no way to recover the cost back. Me I'm broke so I can't lay out cash to ship them. Take this as a hint when trying to procure systems/pieces. The source generally desires LOW EFFORT/COST meaning you pick it up. Allison From dastar at wco.com Fri Mar 13 11:20:19 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > You, sir, have not seen many real computer rooms. Some of the plainest > looking buildings have the most impressive computer rooms. Of those that I > frequent, the best have been MCI sites (old things - VAXen, HP1000s, IBM > S/1s, etc.), banks (big IBM iron, _including_ S/360 remnants), and AOL > (yes, AOL - biggest computer rooms I have ever seen - _hundreds_ of > serious machines, but all recent). The only MCI site I've been in had Sun's and crappy NT boxes (on Compaq servers). Nothing exciting, except that it comprised MCI's CampusMCI internet backbone, which was kinda cool. Oh, and it did house my stuff which made it respectable :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 13 11:34:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment References: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Message-ID: <35096E24.984FB06D@bbtel.com> Greg Troutman wrote: > Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them > because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room > around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all > familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get > one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: > > - Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) > - Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) > - Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty > memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" > floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) > > All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you > buy? In my opinion they need to pay YOU to take the Sanyo. They're real dogs and if they don't have the specially modified DOS that goes with it then it's not even a good paperweight. I had one for some time and I was so glad to get a clone and sell the Sanyo (I spell it Say-No anymore). There wasn't any support from Sanyo on them back in the mid 80's and there's virually none now. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 11:57:41 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >> >> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >> There's one already! > > Oops. Missed it. How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of the powerPC, what was it, 801? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Mar 13 11:56:31 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Sun3x boot prom In-Reply-To: <199803130027.TAA26420@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 12, 98 07:27:29 pm Message-ID: <199803131756.JAA17557@fraser.sfu.ca> Go to the netBSD site and find the link to the "Sun 3/3x Archive", it tells you how to do this. Kevin > > > Anyone remember how to set the default boot drive on a Sun3? > This is not a Sun4, so the monitor commands are completely different > from anything manufactured in the last ten years.... > > Thanks! > --jmg > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 12:07:27 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313120727.0098d100@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:57 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >>It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >>> >>> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >>> There's one already! >> >> Oops. Missed it. > >How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >the powerPC, what was it, 801? > > PC/RT? Anyone want to get rid of one? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 12:18:47 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <35094060.4107E704@crl.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Mine seems functional too, as I get typical bootstrap activities, but I > don't have a video cable to see what's really going on. Can anyone tell > me the pinout so I can make one? And of course, if I get video, I'll > too need help with software... I've found very little mention of this > machine via search engines. If you have the Genlocker, plug in a TV set into the 'Sync' BNC connector (the 4th one on the right, on the left side of the box). Then switch the switch next to it to 'BW' instead of 'Sync'. It's black and white, but the best posible without a RGB monitor capable of that. It seems to work ok. (Still not much good without an OS...) Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ---------- From engine at chac.org Fri Mar 13 12:28:15 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> At 12:39 3/13/98 GMT, Pete wrote: >I don't wish to teach my granny to suck eggs, but I'd also suggest you take >care that *all* the pins go back in the socket when you reseat anything; it's >not hard to bend a pin underneath sometimes.... Baaaad memories of populating an Everex 3MB XMS card (256K DRAM x 108) and folding one pin in the first bank.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 13 12:59:15 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <199803130614.BAA06044@ren.globecomm.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Adam Fritzler wrote: > I know there has already been a discussion on the Sony SMC-70, but it seems > to have terminated after being sidetracked into a discussion of floppy > connectors. > > I've stumbled upon quite a large collection of Sony modules for these > things. This is currently what I have sitting in front of me: > > SMC-70G Micro Computer > ??????? Genlocker > SMI-7012A Dual Floppy Unit > SMI-7074 NTSC Superimposer > SMI-7050 Cache Disk Unit -- What is this? > SMI-7075 Videotizer > > Now, is there anywhere that I can get an OS and the software to use all that > equipment with? Can someone 'lend' me images of thier floppies? (If anyone > has them!) I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor (Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s will support your 'odd pieces' however. If you are interested, send me private e-mail and we'll see what can be worked out. - don > The main computer module is fuctional -- I can boot it to the point where I > get a console monitor and get type 'b' and get into 'Sony BASIC'. I don't > currently have enough RGB NTSC video equipment to test the rest out. > > Thanks, > Adam > ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) > http://afritz.base.org/ > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 12:52:40 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> References: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> At 10:28 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: [snip] > Baaaad memories of populating an Everex 3MB XMS card (256K DRAM x 108) >and folding one pin in the first bank.... > 256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K expansions for the PCjr. We ended up with a production line with a handmade pin bending jig and inserter. Not only were they hell to populate, but when the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 a pop. I can't tell you how glad I was when those new-fangled SIMM-thingies came out. Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 13 13:03:47 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: >How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >the powerPC, what was it, 801? I thought we were just looking for System/x or Series/x systems. Here's what I can think of: Series/1 minicomputer 1977-1991 Advanced(or sometimes Application) System/400 minicomputer 1988-xxxx System/88 minicomputer? Around about the same time as the Series/1 System/3 minicomputer This is an old one... System/23 I guess this would be a minicomputer/terminal combo... System/32 I'm pretty sure this existed, or maybe all these numbers are mixing me up System/34 minicomputer from the mid to late 70's Then came the System/38, And THEN the System/36! Personal System/2(8088-486) Around 1990 or so. Personal System/1 I don't know anything about these... System/360 Mainframe from the 60's... Kinda funny. 360 as in all-around computing, and it matches the year, too... System/370 Mainframe from the 70's... System/390 Mainframe from the 90's... Hey, what happened to the 80's? RS/6000 Big powerful workstations... ES/9000 The newest mainframes, IIRC I like minicomputers, but mainframes are a bit much. Too big, need too much power, too much maintenance, too expensive... Minicomputers are just plain cool. I think over on midrange-l someone said that there was a System/34 below a fire in an office building, 8" of water on the floor by the time everything was over. They drained the room(and I assume dried out the computer) and it started right up! As for micros, they are a pain in the ***... Same goes for any computer with a screwed up OS and no install tapes(in this case, my Apollo 3500. Although I think I almost have the tape drive working...). --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 13 13:33:47 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980313143347.009f43c0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw David Wollmann typed: [snip] >Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic >retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a >mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Why trash the mobo? If yer just gonna throw 'em out, I'll pay shipping/packing to get them to me. I've replaced SIMM sockets on '386's & stuff, they're really not that hard if you have the tools (decent solder sucker, good soldering iron, *fine* solder, etc.). I don't suspect I'd have any problems with 72-pinners, tho I've never done any (due to never had any thrown [out] at me before...). Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 13 13:28:08 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: David Wollmann "Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)" (Mar 13, 12:52) References: <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9803131928.ZM20797@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 13, 12:52, David Wollmann wrote: > Now we just have to worry about busting the cheap plastic > retainers on some of the older sockets. I hate it when I have to trash a > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. They're not usually very hard to replace. I've fixed at least two motherboards such as you describe by using the SIMM sockets swiped from one that really was DBR. Even new SIMM sockets aren't expensive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Mar 13 13:21:46 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313120727.0098d100@pop3.webzone.net> References: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313132146.0083bbd0@pop3.webzone.net> At 12:07 PM 3/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 09:57 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>It was thus said that the Great jpero@cgo.wave.ca once stated: >>>> >>>> > You forgot the AS/400 series. >>>> There's one already! >>> >>> Oops. Missed it. >> >>How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of >>the powerPC, what was it, 801? >> >> > >PC/RT? > Oops, just remembered the PC/360. Yup, an XT with channel card and other goodies. IIRC, was only good for programmers to work offline. David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From engine at chac.org Fri Mar 13 14:06:54 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313120654.00f77620@pop.batnet.com> At 12:52 3/13/98 -0600, David wrote: >256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K >expansions for the PCjr....Not only were they hell to populate, but when >the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 >a pop. The thing about those Everex 3MB XMS cards was, I actually did several of them (groan) with DRAM I'd stocked up on. At the worst of the RAM spike, the best price I could have gotten on 256K DRAM was US$12.45 per chip. Which made those d**n Everex cards worth, nominally, over $1300 each.... but we just gritted our teeth, because a 9-chip 1MB 30-pin SIMM was $595! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Mar 13 14:33:22 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <1998Mar13.153035.1767.88077@smtp.itgonline.com> I used to populate the XMS cards with 256K DRAM as well, largest being 2MB (72 chips). As I recall, the 256K DRAM dips were down to about $2.50~$3.50 a pop when our benevolent Congress stepped in to help us and the price rose to the $12.00+ range. I was impressed. We had orders to fill and were being burned bad.... those weren't the days. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/13/98 3:17 PM At 12:52 3/13/98 -0600, David wrote: >256K DRAMs bring back all sorts of bad memories. We used to sell 384K >expansions for the PCjr....Not only were they hell to populate, but when >the DRAM prices went through the roof, we were only selling a few at ~$300 >a pop. The thing about those Everex 3MB XMS cards was, I actually did several of them (groan) with DRAM I'd stocked up on. At the worst of the RAM spike, the best price I could have gotten on 256K DRAM was US$12.45 per chip. Which made those d**n Everex cards worth, nominally, over $1300 each.... but we just gritted our teeth, because a 9-chip 1MB 30-pin SIMM was $595! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar13.151714.1767.31564; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:17:17 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA16957; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:44 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA19848 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:27 -0800 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id MAA28221 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:09:26 -0800 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13871; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:08:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980313120654.00f77620@pop.batnet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:06:54 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980313102815.00f64130@pop.batnet.com> <9803131239.ZM19878@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac@pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Fri Mar 13 16:00:39 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: NYTIMES article References: <01bd4e65$1a6c23c0$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3509AC86.6F74@digiweb.com> Pete Joules wrote: > I got into the web site today, out of interest, and went as far as the > registration page which is working today. They want $35 per month from > foreigners just to enter the site :-( I know, but if you lie and say you're from the US, you get in for free! All you need is a zip code. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 14:54:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: What sort of Model 4 CPU board is this? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/97ecd8ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 15:03:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1227 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/42b8ee84/attachment.ksh From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 13 16:41:59 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... Message-ID: <199803132239.RAA08238@ren.globecomm.net> At 10:59 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor >(Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s >will support your 'odd pieces' however. Are these things readable by PC floppy drives or do they use an odd geometry/layout (eg, Apple)? If so, images of them would be nice. Otherwise, I guess I can find a way to get them out here (AZ). Adam ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) http://afritz.base.org/ http://www.primenet.com/~afritz/ Linux/mac68k: (Linux for 68k Macintoshes) http://www.maclinux.org/ http://www.afritz.base.org/linux-mac68k/ Linux/MIPS for DECstations (Linux for MIPS DECstations) http://decstation.unix-ag.org http://www1.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/index.html From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 13 12:59:28 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm Message-ID: <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> > > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. Also on cheapie motherboard the contact fingers were too soft and had to bend the board other way when installing the simms. > I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't > understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a > motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a > time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. > Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. That's what I would do if the latch is broken. > There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering > iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. Duh! Truly 100% folkore story! :) > BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the > surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an > entertainment... Not that only one, I have few cheap simms with bad plate-thoughs. Wow. > Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my > spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs > in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. There was one oddball design of this simm that used soldered DIP's but one chip is outside one side of the socket with traces around the cutout for the one latch! That was used heavily samsung or hyduani built Peecees in that early 90s. Few of that simms had chips went bad from group of 3 machines. Very high failure rate and chips is hyundai made. Of course I repaired them by removing all 9 chips and test them one by one on other PC with socketed memory until dud is found. Then resolder them all in! In these days it was appox 20 a stick for 256k x 9 80ns. Ditto on one hyperion portable after 21 chips later bad memory chip was found. Not fun that all of this are soldered in and that was 2 years ago. Did bent few Dip's in few machines including a compaq 286 deskpro, the motherboard is one of a kind, takes 72 256k chips to make 2mb. Took a while to find the guilty because hard to see ic with bent leg. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Mar 13 18:17:08 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <19980314001708.29424.qmail@hotmail.com> The reason why people think it's "illegal" to solder PC parts is because high temeratures can damage semiconductors, or so it says on every soldering guide I have ever seen. That's what those heat sinks are for. Now about the sockets, I'd imagine quite a few SIMMS were broken trying to fit them in. While mostly, it's easy, I had to pound on some DIMMS I was installing into 10 Macs recently. By the way, does anyone want an Orchid RAM expansion board for a PS/2? Sorry, no driver files or anything. I will give it for free. AFAIK, it works and has either 1, 1.5, or 2 MB RAM on it. > >I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't >understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a >motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a >time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. >Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. > >There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering >iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. > >BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the >surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an >entertainment... > >Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my >spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs >in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. > >I think it came from an Amstrad machine, and I think there are diagrams >of them in some Amstrad service manuals. > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 17:58:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Mar 13, 98 06:59:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/c2855e91/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 17:53:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <19980314001708.29424.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 13, 98 04:17:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1440 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/293573d4/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 13 19:23:20 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s Message-ID: i've got a PCRT, the desktop form factor, but i need the proprietary keyboard. any leads? david In a message dated 98-03-13 13:17:41 EST, you write: << PC/RT? Anyone want to get rid of one? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support >> From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 19:31:37 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <000601bd4ee8$ee9fc830$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >BTW, I've seen a few non-name SIMMs with dry joints between the >surface-mount chips and the carrier board. Resoldering those was an >entertainment... > >Probably more on-topic for this list is a 30 pin SIMM that I have in my >spares box. It's 256K*9, using pin-through-hole chips (normal 41256 DRAMs >in 16 pin DIP packages). It does use the normal SIMM pinout AFAIK. Those are adapter boards to convert old DIP DRAMS into SIMMs. I did a bunch when 1MB SIMMs were $50 each. There are still places that sell them, JDR in California for one. Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 13 19:40:35 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Well, obviously you use the right tools :-). Attacking any computer board >with a sheet-metal iron is going to do some damage. But I don't >understand why a PC motherboard is any more fragile than (say) a board >from a minicomputer, workstation, or whatever. Well, for one thing old boards used .1 inch traces, now with surface mount it's .05 or .025. I don;t know about you, but my hand (wasted from advanced age and hard living) isn't steady enough to solder a surface mount IC. Jack Peacock From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 13 21:01:47 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: <35093FA7.696BD744@crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> At 06:16 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Yesterday, I saw three interesting machines but I didn't get them >because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room >around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all >familiar with any of these, but if I were to go back and possibly get >one of them, I'd like some comments on them to help me decide: > >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) Yes, CPM system. I've seen two of these for sale in in the past week. Apparently they sold most of these as word processors and not as computers. These require the special 3 inch disks, so you may want to be sure it includes some since they're hard to find. >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) A pain in the A__! I used to have one. I requies special DOS and won't run a lot of the MS-DOS software, Skip it! >- Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty >memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" >floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) > >All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you >buy? Definitely not the Sanyo! Joe > >-- >mor@crl.com >http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 13 20:21:07 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803140221.AA13448@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 13, 98 09:21:07 pm Message-ID: <9803140228.AA15594@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/51aaccba/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Fri Mar 13 20:23:22 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3509EA1A.43B19877@rain.org> Jack Peacock wrote: > Well, for one thing old boards used .1 inch traces, now with > surface mount it's .05 or .025. I don;t know about you, but my > hand (wasted from advanced age and hard living) isn't steady > enough to solder a surface mount IC. Just pointing out a misplaced decimal point. IN CP/M days, the .1 inch traces (and wider) would have been used for power distribution, and most of the normal traces were in the .025" range. Currently, standard design practice seems to be 8 - 10 mil lines although higher density boards can get smaller tracewidths. I found the best way to deal with surface mount components is under a microscope :). From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 13 20:28:41 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-13 21:22:35 EST, you write: << > with all this talk of soldering and desoldering, is it possible for a layman to do this with just a regular low wattage soldering iron? any tips from the pros? david From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:33 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313115141.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> At 11:09 AM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >The reason I can't say the same for CD-ROM's is that I don't have any that >are more than a decade old. Some of my floppies will be 30 years old >pretty soon. I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. (P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:37 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313115623.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> At 02:25 PM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >There's also the problem that folks seem to think that CD-R's are >indestructable so they do not take care of them (i.e. not putting them back >in the jewel cases, playing shuffleboard with them, etc.). CD's too. I saw a guy pull a stack of 15-20 CD's out of his pocket, no case or anything, and start shuffling through them like a deck of cards. Picked one out, put it on the seat beside him, took the CD out of his player, and put it and the rest back in his pocket. I guess they still worked (though his player had a (I think) 10 second buffer, so it has plenty of time to do retries.) 'course he didn't look like the sort of bloke who listened to anything older than a week. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:39:42 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Amstrad disks Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313120009.739f402c@ricochet.net> At 07:17 PM 3/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >PCW8256/PCW8512 : AMSM8256/8512 5.48 I have one of these manuals, with some waterlogging, if anyone wants to avoid UK shipping. Cost is $.55 + shipping from San Francisco. (that's 55 cents, which includes a 1 cent profit. I'm gonna be rich! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 13 20:40:18 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980313173159.76cf97d6@ricochet.net> At 06:16 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >because A) I was short on cash and B) I'm really running out of room >around here and trying not to buy everything I see... I'm not at all Ah, I'm not alone! 8^) > >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) "Personal Computer Word Processor" I have book 1 of the "User Guide - CP/M Logo & Word Processor Manual". Seems like it came with "LocaScript" a WP, DR Logo, and CP/M Plus. A pretty interesting looking machine, actually. >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) Not exactly "straight". Semi-compatible, iirc. Very early in the PC timeline, and probably pretty significant. >- Olivetti EVT300 (I may have botched the part number from faulty >memory, it's a stylish black metal PC-ish box with one 3.5" >floppy--related to AT&T 6300?) Could be an AT&T 6300; I seem to remember Olivetti and AT&T worked together or something. >All were priced in the 10-15 dollar range. Which, if any, would you >buy? Well, depends on your interests. If you're interested in PC (i.e., Intel x86/MS-DOS) history, definitely go for the Sanyo. If you're more into the older, more proprietary systems (S-100 stuff/CP/M) go for the amstrad. If you're a Unix/workstation person (Sun, Apollo, UnixPC, etc.) or perhaps into foreign stuff or something, go for the Olivetti. (Note, I don't *know* that the Olivetti runs Unix or anything, just a longshot possibility.) Me, I'd probably go for the Sanyo first, then the Amstrad. The amstrad, btw, came with a printer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:45:53 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980313115141.739f2ec2@ricochet.net> Message-ID: > I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. > (P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) I agree. At a college station I was involved with (WMSE in Milwaukee - I once let the cheeseheads endure all four minutes of "Swallowing Scrap Metal", a rather nasty noisework), we had some of the very first disks pressed for the public. They are still good (just a bit torn up from years of use). CD-ROMs, at least the pressed ones, will be good for years to come... William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:49:18 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The only MCI site I've been in had Sun's and crappy NT boxes (on Compaq > servers). Nothing exciting, except that it comprised MCI's CampusMCI > internet backbone, which was kinda cool. Oh, and it did house my stuff > which made it respectable :) The colo (colocation) rooms generally have the old stuff. You can bet that I am going to follow the fate of a certain IBM RS/6000 SP that is sitting in one (can not tell you where)... William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 20:50:41 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: <001201bd4ea9$84e0da90$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: > How about 1130, 1401, 7090, 4300 series? And the ancestor of > the powerPC, what was it, 801? Yes, they were series, but never marketted as such (S/7090? Never heard of it). The family name did not exist. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 21:01:23 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: IBM S/s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add to the Rollins list... > Series/1 minicomputer 1977-1991 The PDP-11 killer that flopped. I think they were dead in the mid 1980s, although perhaps support lasted until 1991. > Advanced(or sometimes Application) System/400 minicomputer 1988-xxxx Probably the only minicomputer I know of that was advertised on television (the MASH crew). I think they were announced before 1988. > System/88 minicomputer? Around about the same time as the Series/1 An oddball. A _repackaged_ Stratus machine! > System/3 minicomputer This is an old one... IBMs first mini. > System/23 I guess this would be a minicomputer/terminal combo... A good try at a small business micro, but a flop in the long run. > System/32 I'm pretty sure this existed, or maybe all these numbers are > mixing me up > System/34 minicomputer from the mid to late 70's > Then came the System/38, > And THEN the System/36! I know little about the S/32s. Anyone? Anyone? > Personal System/2(8088-486) Around 1990 or so. People love 'em, people hate 'em, but they sure made IBM a bundle of money. > Personal System/1 I don't know anything about these... Another stab at the PeeCee market, but again, a failure. > System/360 Mainframe from the 60's... Kinda funny. 360 as in all-around > computing, and it matches the year, too... They were also still in production in the 1970s. > System/370 Mainframe from the 70's... The family with THE BEST control panels ever. That includes KI-10s. > System/390 Mainframe from the 90's... Hey, what happened to the 80's? Thier current line, and selling like crazy. People are starting to once again, enjoy the reliability and stability of old iron, now for web hosting! > RS/6000 Big powerful workstations... And they are not even RISC. Damn marketers. > ES/9000 The newest mainframes, IIRC No, the S/390s are. The only one not here is the S/4, an odd family made for airborne environments. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Mar 13 21:11:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ah, you mean their collection of Auspex File Servers, they are one of > Auspexes two major customers. Interesting Hardware, I got to check out the > hardware on their latest yesterday, they're really packing the drives in > the new machines. Still trying to figure out how all the data on the new > machines can be backed up in a timely manner. No, the Auspex boxes are in the minority. To keep one million users active at once, LOTs of Unix boxes are needed! William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:16:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 13, 98 05:40:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 781 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/cb251550/attachment.ksh From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Mar 12 22:28:16 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions Message-ID: <199803140326.NAA29179@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! I had some luck today, and picked up and Amstrad CPC464, two IBM JX's, and an Altos 486. No idea what I'll do with the spare JX - but they are neat. Did it take JR cartridges, or ones of it's own? And does anyone know whether they had to have their own system disks, or could they boot off standard DOS? Currently I'm stuck with the default BASIC. The Altos is something new for me - it appears to be from 1984, and has a number of ports for terminals on the back. It says that it is running a 4186 as the cpu, but I don't know that one and the cpu is covered by the power supply. Was this actually the 80186, or something else? And does anyone know anything about Altos and the Altos 486? Thanks heaps, Adam. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Mar 13 21:45:24 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Old Sony Z80 comp... In-Reply-To: <199803132239.RAA08238@ren.globecomm.net> from "Adam Fritzler" at Mar 13, 98 03:41:59 pm Message-ID: <199803140345.WAA28440@shell.monmouth.com> > > At 10:59 AM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > > >I have several SMC-70 disks that include the o/s, word processor > >(Benchmark), MEX114 communications, etc. I have no idea whether the o/s > >will support your 'odd pieces' however. > > Are these things readable by PC floppy drives or do they use an odd > geometry/layout (eg, Apple)? If so, images of them would be nice. > Otherwise, I guess I can find a way to get them out here (AZ). > > Adam > > ( Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com ) > http://afritz.base.org/ > http://www.primenet.com/~afritz/ > Linux/mac68k: (Linux for 68k Macintoshes) > http://www.maclinux.org/ > http://www.afritz.base.org/linux-mac68k/ > Linux/MIPS for DECstations (Linux for MIPS DECstations) > http://decstation.unix-ag.org > http://www1.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/index.html > > They're readable by PC (although Single Sided). I think Teledisk should work to allow making them into files and recreating the original disks. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:48:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 13, 98 09:01:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1641 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/8a0f45b7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 13 20:39:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE" at Mar 13, 98 09:28:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4808 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/4fa23af4/attachment.ksh From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Mar 13 22:46:19 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 13, 98 05:40:35 pm Message-ID: >The trick is not to worry about bridging connections. Solder the chip >down and then use desolder braid (solder wick) to clean off the excess >solder. And don't forget a very fine tip for the iron... Or better yet, save up for a reflow station! I saw an ad in Nuts'n'Volts for one that was only $1200... But first I think I'll get a nice Weller to replace my peice of crap Radio Shack 15/30W switchable iron. I have my eye on one of those <$100 variable power Wellers, I don't remember which model but there are two of them. I think one sells for $99 and the other for around $50 or so. And some of the desoldering braids would be nice, too. Those desoldering bulbs are HORRIBLE. Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for the motorized vacuum pump models. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 13 22:53:49 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: from "John Rollins" at Mar 13, 98 08:46:19 pm Message-ID: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/03dbdcdc/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 14 00:29:59 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:40 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <199803140221.AA13448@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314012959.00a77d40@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: >FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked cards >a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! Old days??? I recovered chips using this method a few months ago... The newer boards are actually nicer for this type of recovery, because the solder seems to melt at a lower temp. then the 20-year-old boards... >Obviously >the board would get toasted but you could get the chips off fairly clean >and fast. Though once I seriously over did it on the heat. The result >is a old 7400 that is bent some in the middle...it still worked! Cool! If one is careful, there is more than just chips that can be recovered using this method -- at one point in time I could recover usable chip sockets (even some 40-pinners) that I'm still using for other projects, and I now have a *boatload* of 8-switch DIP switch packages for my hardware playing... I received 50-60 ArcNet cards from my ex-ex-employer, and a lot of the chips were doing me more good singly, so I desoldered roughly 35 of 'em... but I saved 15 or so cards (3 of each type, IIRC) and the Active Hub -- just in case I wanna set up my own ArcNet network at home... ;-) Grab that torch, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 14 00:45:01 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron Options In-Reply-To: References: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314014501.00a89820@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Tony Duell typed: >I would _strongly_ recomend buying a good temperature-controlled >soldering iron if you are serious about computer repair. It'll cost ><$100, and it'll save a lot of time/hassle. I don't have one of these (I'd love to have one), but... >I am told that a butane soldering iron, like the Weller Pyropen with a >hot air tip is almost ideal for surface-mount repairs. I've not got one >(yet!), though. My Weller butane iron (to my knowledge) isn't called a "Pyropen", but that could be just a UK name thing... Spec's on my Weller: it's a butane-fired adjustable-heat soldering iron with removable tips & a sparker built-in to the protective cap, and the whole thing fits into my shirt pocket (The *ultimate* geek-wear! ;-) ... cost me $70 USD but well worth it. The tips I received in the package were the standard-sized soldering tip, the hot-knife, the blowtorch (great for camping! -- who needs matches???) and the heat-blower. Then, at the local "Dork-RadioShack" they had mis-marked two 1.0mm tips for it at $0.99 USD (instead of $9.99 -- over 90% off!! :-) so I bought both of them! These work great for board soldering, and have done a few of the "larger-part" SMD soldering with no problems whatsoever. (I picked up some 1407 round SMD resistors for really cheap (closeout) from Mouser Electronics) and the job my Weller did was just wonderful! By the by, I've been using that one 1.0mm tip for almost everything for the last two years (including soldering mains power cords) and it's still like brand-new. The other tip should be as classic as my CoCos by the time I have to open it!!! ;-) Thanks to that little wonder, I'm not in *such a hurry* for a full-bore soldering station. ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 14 00:54:42 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: TOday's finds... Message-ID: <00d501bd4f16$1324de20$2cf438cb@nostromo> Today's haul... TWO Aquarius II computers (Serial numbers 8 and 10) Lots of software for the above (cartridges/ cassettes) box of 10 disks for the Aquarius drive (no drive, alas) teletext software/cartridges, several modems for the above Printer for the above Two tape drive units One prototype smart card unit (credit card size card) - for videotext access Prototype Commodore disk drive interfaces (2) for Aquarius Schematics and manuals for Aquarius Extension interface Prototype 16K RAM unit (functional) OSI superboard II with homemade case, including voice synthesis add-on Another good day. I'll be trading at least one of the Aquarius II computers, probably. Offers? Cheers A From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 01:03:51 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? Message-ID: <13339536744.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I convinced the 5363 to give me Service mode. (Diddled with plugs behind the keyswitch until it let me try IPLing.). The IPL fails, someone has nuked these harddisks. (Erased, not destroyed). So, I have the whole set of SSP, RPG, and Utilities disks, how do I do a reload? I have the directions for doing this on a 5360, but not 5363. I'm at the microcode loading stage, but where the 5360 has 1 disk for microcode, I have 2. I can finish loading the 1st disk, but I can't get it to load the second - I don't know how. Anyone know? ------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sat Mar 14 03:12:01 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Annals of OS and network history In-Reply-To: <199803111935.TAA18277@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314191201.0068d1d0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 07:35 PM 11-03-98 GMT, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >the "infinite tape" idea is as important as you suggested, however. Of course as an optimization all Turing machine programs can be rewritten to use a semi-infinite tape. Implementing such a Turing machine saves an infinite amount of money compared with one that uses a infinite tape :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sat Mar 14 03:17:07 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338922196.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13338921724.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314191707.0068b500@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:48 PM 11-03-98 -0800, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >[785 question] >Here's a question: What's the differences between a VAX 785 and a 780? 5 :-) Physically identical (you can upgrade/downgrade to your heart's content). Basically an 11/785 is an 11/780 with a faster CPU. An 11/780 is 1VUP (by definition) and an 11/785 is 1.5VUP. I used to look after (both hardware and software) 11/780s and 11/785s. The last pair were known as black (11/785) and blue (11/780) as the 785 had originally been an Intergraph system and was repainted black. Black and blue also reflected on my fingers/body/etc - these systems are heavy. After having fun with these systems we replaced them with 8800 series VAXen. At one stage I looked after 4 and we had another 2 under Digital maintenance. Now those were the good old days.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 06:11:48 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <13339536744.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> At 11:03 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >I convinced the 5363 to give me Service mode. (Diddled with plugs behind >the keyswitch until it let me try IPLing.). The IPL fails, someone has >nuked these harddisks. (Erased, not destroyed). So, I have the whole >set of SSP, RPG, and Utilities disks, how do I do a reload? I have the directions >for doing this on a 5360, but not 5363. I'm at the microcode loading stage, >but where the 5360 has 1 disk for microcode, I have 2. I can finish loading >the 1st disk, but I can't get it to load the second - I don't know how. >Anyone know? >------- > I just did this on a new (new to my 5363) disk about one year ago. I have a manual page here somewhere with all the details--if I can find it I'll send you the info later. If you're in a big hurry, do a DejaNews search in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc on "microcode load" or something along those lines. I know it's been discussed there in the last year or so. You should also try to install the latest PTFs if you have them. You wouldn't happen to have S/36 Common Ordinary Business Obfuscation Language would you? Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 06:20:38 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions In-Reply-To: <199803140326.NAA29179@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314062038.00a0e740@pop3.webzone.net> At 01:58 PM 3/13/98 +0930, you wrote: >Hi! > >I had some luck today, and picked up and Amstrad CPC464, two IBM JX's, >and an Altos 486. No idea what I'll do with the spare JX - but they are >neat. Did it take JR cartridges, or ones of it's own? And does anyone >know whether they had to have their own system disks, or could they boot >off standard DOS? Currently I'm stuck with the default BASIC. The infamous Japanese PCjr? The JX was the last straw for the jr community. When we heard about it we though IBM was fixing to revive the jr--little did we know. Is there any chance you could post a couple snapshots of the JX somewhere? I'd love to have a look at one so I can cry in my beer. IIRC, the JX could boot PC-DOS 2.10. If it's inwards are anything like the PCjr, it's a 128K box, so unless it has been expanded, you're probably stuck with DOS 2.10 or 3.x. -- Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Mar 13 08:28:12 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Altos and JX questions Message-ID: <199803141326.XAA21783@arthur.merlin.net.au> >The infamous Japanese PCjr? The JX was the last straw for the jr community. >When we heard about it we though IBM was fixing to revive the jr--little >did we know. Is there any chance you could post a couple snapshots of the >JX somewhere? I'd love to have a look at one so I can cry in my beer. I opened one of them up to check her out, and have a shot of the system with the cover off. As soonas I get the film proceesed I'll put them up. An ugly beast though - I like them, but they are an ugly dark gray. >IIRC, the JX could boot PC-DOS 2.10. If it's inwards are anything like the >PCjr, it's a 128K box, so unless it has been expanded, you're probably >stuck with DOS 2.10 or 3.x. It seems they were 512k as standard, but there was no seperate video ram so 64k of that was taken. thanks heaps, Adam. From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 08:38:43 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <01bd4f56$e3cebb00$7b62bcc1@hotze> Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, etc.) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From DJM1 at bit-net.com Sat Mar 14 11:45:04 1998 From: DJM1 at bit-net.com (Dennis.M) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Cipher Model ST150S-II Message-ID: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> I recently aquired 3 of these tape drives and have been trying to locate any information on them to see if they are any good/worth useing. I was surfing the web and saw some Email messages you sent concerning these tape drives. Could you share any information you have? I would prove to be most helpful to me. Thank You Dennis Magnan dmagnan@hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/6d517b80/attachment.html From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 10:29:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <13339639720.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [COBOL? Are you NUTS?] Of course not! What do I look like, some kind of a freak or something? It only has RPG II. I did get it to load. The problem was a very large nasty mess of something on the Microcode disk. I had to go dig up another. Now, I have to find out what to DO with it... Apparetly you HAVE to have a printer to do anything useful. Can I go hang a PC printer off this, or do I have to go dig up a twinax printer? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 10:37:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: <01bd4f56$e3cebb00$7b62bcc1@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 14, 98 05:38:43 pm Message-ID: <9803141637.AA16319@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 395 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/402615ca/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 10:46:15 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13338872088.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 11, 98 10:12:47 am Message-ID: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/e2dfbcd2/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 10:48:19 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Old computers = useless?] It's not that, I'm usually surprised because I though a big company like ATS would have unloaded these just to say "We have no old gear, we use all NEW technology!" I plan to have my uV3100 do something useful once the NetBSD DMA code gets fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:00:08 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 08:48:19 am Message-ID: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/bcc30d6a/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 11:00:02 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <01bd4f6a$a190f000$1e60bcc1@hotze> Could be, but I'm also asking for CLASIC stuff. ;-) I'll check, but seeing as how batelco.com.bh (the ONLY Bahrain ISP... owned by the gov't.) isn't really up to date.... thanks anyway. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 7:39 PM Subject: Re: BBS Server/Clinet Software >> Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS >> program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client >> software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, >> etc.) > >There's an entire "alt.bbs.*" as well as a "comp.bbs.*" hiererarchy on >USENET. Wouldn't that be a more appropriate place to ask? > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Mar 14 11:10:42 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Rant mode on... Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED mailing list. Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 11:09:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339647025.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TCP/IP on a PDP-11] 2. sounds interesting... I think I know where to get a copy of TSX-11... ------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Mar 14 12:23:59 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: Here's what I think the answer is: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Often, when I read email coming out of funky MicroSatan email software, I get the bizarro HTMLesque stuff...especially when I use PINE on one of my Linux boxes, which is pretty much the email software I use always. I don't think the sender INTENDS to send out HTML. If you really look close at such messages, you will see an actual message in there somewhere buried amongst the tags. And I've had friends send me email with exactly the same results which, when read on a client like Eudora or Netscape, look fairly normal. Because it's a MIME-multipart message, I think it contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. The solution is to turn away from MicroSatan and turn your eyes, instead, upon the glorious light of Linux. =-D Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > Rant mode on... > > Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to > be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? > > Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making > it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the > Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED > mailing list. > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:25:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Mar 14, 98 09:10:42 am Message-ID: <9803141725.AA16482@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/9962352c/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 11:27:30 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339647025.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 09:09:39 am Message-ID: <9803141727.AA06039@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/07ec346f/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 11:34:16 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141727.AA06039@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339651508.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [TSX-11] Actually, a guy I know wants to axe the TSX-11 on his 11/53 so he can just talk to RT-11. I could probably just back it up on a TK50 and load it elsewheres. Why he wants to axe TSX, I'm not sure. I'll ask later. This should still be legal, as the origional install is getting destroyed. So only one copy stays in existence. ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 14 11:51:29 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: >fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to >install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? Does the UNIX source license include the ability to use the BSD versions for the PDP-11? I thought the license only covers UNIX Version 1-7 & V32, or is that all that is required to be able to legally obtain a copy of BSD? On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds like it might run on a VAX to me. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 13:05:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: request for comments on some used equipment In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980313210147.4847eeb0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314130507.2f7fc28e@intellistar.net> At 02:48 AM 3/14/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >- Amstrad PCW 8256 (z80/cpm system?) >> >> Yes, CPM system. I've seen two of these for sale in in the past week. >> Apparently they sold most of these as word processors and not as computers. >> These require the special 3 inch disks, so you may want to be sure it >> includes some since they're hard to find. > >It is possible to fit 3.5" drives into these machines. AFAIK, all you >have to do is match up signals between the 34 pin connector on the 3.5" >(720K, of course) drive and the 26 pin connector in the machine. I can >look up pinouts of the latter in the service manual. > >> >> >> >- Sanyo MBC 550 (straight PC clone?) >> >> A pain in the A__! I used to have one. I requies special DOS and won't >> run a lot of the MS-DOS software, Skip it! > >All the more reason to save it!. It's a reasonably uncommon machine IMHO. >So what if it doesn't run most MS-DOS software - nor do most of my >machines. We have PC's for that :-) > I used to have tons of software specificly for the Sanyo. I'll have to look and see if any of it's still around. If it is you're welcome to it. I sunk a fortne in my Sanyo, I wouldn't have another one if you gave it to me. I bless the day that the PC clones became available. >Seriously, there are 2 classes of machine in my collection. The first are >machines like (although I hate to say it) the PC I'm typing this on, >PERQs, PDP11's, PDP8's, etc - machines that run useful programs, and are >useful computers. The second is machines which, although interesting >computers, and worth preserving are not so useful. In my case these >consist mainly of home micros. I keep them running, and I use them from >time to time. But if I want to write a letter, or do some programming, I >use one of the first category of machines. Of course how you group your >machines depends on what you want to do with them. > >The Sanyo is in the sceond group IMHO. It's still worth preserving. That's only becuase you never had to try to use one! Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 13:11:51 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314131151.45f747ec@intellistar.net> If you can find the *good* coaxial cable cheap, the braid on it makes great solder wick. Especially the silver plated stuff. Joe At 08:53 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >> And some of the desoldering braids would be nice, too. > >True - and don't bother spending money on the no-name el cheapo brands. >Go straight for the brand names like "Solder Wick". The chemical coating >on the braid makes all the difference in the world! > >Tim. > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 12:17:20 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <19980314181720.7305.qmail@hotmail.com> >Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:39:33 -0600 (CST) Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does it damage CDs or something? > >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 14 12:17:00 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Resetting-up S/36 (5363) - How do I do that? In-Reply-To: <13339639720.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980314061148.00a083d0@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314121700.00a14890@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:29 AM 3/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >[COBOL? Are you NUTS?] >Of course not! What do I look like, some kind of a freak or something? >It only has RPG II. I did get it to load. The problem was a very large nasty >mess of something on the Microcode disk. I had to go dig up another. >Now, I have to find out what to DO with it... >Apparetly you HAVE to have a printer to do anything useful. Can I go >hang a PC printer off this, or do I have to go dig up a twinax printer? >------- > At the console: SYSLIST CRT That will put everything to the console. If you don't have a printer, you can put a 5250 card in a cheapo-depo Intel box (anything from XT to 386, but speed may kill in this case), and hang a 5152-compatible printer on it. You'll need PC Support/36. Thank you, David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -- Support for legacy IBM products. Data, document and file conversion for legacy IBM file and media formats. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:25:44 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339651508.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 09:34:16 am Message-ID: <9803141825.AA16589@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/b127ad48/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 12:25:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141825.AA16589@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339660860.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Why do R TSX?] It's in the startup indirect file. I'm told he wants Fuzzball instead of TSX. ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:28:56 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 14, 98 09:51:29 am Message-ID: <9803141828.AA16609@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/4d6eb99b/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Mar 14 13:28:25 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <9803141725.AA16482@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > 3. In some cases, *cannot* configure their software to stop doing it > (i.e. it's being enforced or done by their ISP.) Er...most ISPs (except the really big guys where all bets are off) don't make any modification to email as it passes through their mail servers...IE they just run straight POP and SMTP, which doesn't modify mail messages. Most ISPs don't have any means of "enforcing" how a users email client is configured though they do have instructions for users or suggestions etc. But they don't lock the software to do the HTML stuff in any way. (How do I know all this? Because I'm the top SysAdmin and Network Engineer for a statewide ISP in Iowa.) More likely, if it is being enforced, it's being enforced by the policies of this or that large corporation through which people are sending mail from their desktops. Corporations CAN enforce things through policy. ISPs, as a general rule, don't enforce how client software is configured although they may have anti-spam policies and such. ISPs generally enforce behavior, if that, rather than configuration. I don't want to get into a big off-topic argument over this. I just get tired of ISPs getting blamed for everything. On the other hand, if you are a user having this problem you SHOULD be able to call your ISP and ask them how to reconfigure your client NOT to do the HTML stuff and, if they're worth spit, they should be able to help you. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 12:33:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software Message-ID: <19980314183309.24211.qmail@hotmail.com> There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up a BBS at the same number and all connect? >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a BBS >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with server/client >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, >etc.) > Thanks, > >Tim D. Hotze > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 14 12:35:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <13339660860.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 14, 98 10:25:39 am Message-ID: <9803141835.AA16554@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 712 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/d43e5949/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 14 12:35:24 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141700.AA16399@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 14, 98 09:00:08 am Message-ID: <199803141835.NAA09850@shell.monmouth.com> > > > If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to > > install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? > > No. If you want TCP/IP on a PDP-11, you want one of the following: > > 1. 2.11 BSD. > 2. Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package for RT-11/TSX+. > 3. Process Software's TCP/IP packages for RSX-11 or RSTS/E. > > All of the above are actively being maintained. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Tim -- that means you need seperate I and D space for TCP/IP? (!@#$&* I was hoping for it on a Pro350 with 2.9...) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 14 12:40:00 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. In-Reply-To: <9803141835.AA16554@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13339663474.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [^C the startup indirect] That's what he's doing. [Why fuzzball?] I have no idea! I know I can't get it to run... ------- From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 14 13:39:20 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: <19980314183309.24211.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. > Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) > for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a > question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up > a BBS at the same number and all connect? Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the bottom number. - don > >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a > BBS > >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with > server/client > >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, > >etc.) > > Thanks, > > > >Tim D. Hotze > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 14 14:02:46 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: IIGS Message-ID: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Hi, I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There was no disk drive attached to the IIe. ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 14 13:50:58 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803141950.AA04232@world.std.com> <>FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked card <>a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! < Message-ID: <199803141953.OAA25023@smtp.interlog.com> On 14 Mar 98 at 9:10, Bruce Lane wrote: > Rant mode on... > > Is it just me, or are others on the list not pleased about what seems to > be a sudden influx of raw HTML code posted here? > > Sorry to be such a snit about this, but wading through that crap is making > it a lot harder to read the articles. The Web is not the Internet, and the > Internet is not the web. Last time I checked, CLASSICCMP was a TEXT-BASED > mailing list. > > Rant mode off. We now return to our regularly scheduled posts. ;-) BTW, I > would ask those who are posting raw HTML code to please stop! > > I'll second that emotion ! The business cards especially screw up my news-reader. Lately I've simply taken to just skipping those messages but it must be a real pain for those on different platforms. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Mar 14 13:54:12 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. References: <13339643142.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <350AE064.76EB6DF8@halcyon.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > I plan to have my uV3100 do something useful once the NetBSD DMA code gets > fixed. If I can scare up $100, I have a 2.9BSD tape image I'd love to > install and use - 2.9 had TCP/IP in it, didn't it? > ------- 2.9 has the beginnings of TCP/IP, but you are much better off with 2.11. Dave From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Mar 14 14:01:38 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses References: <9803141646.AA06026@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <350AE222.F3D3C04F@halcyon.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds > like it might run on a VAX to me. > UNIX 32V was a port of V7 to the VAX done at Bell Labs. I believe it was also ported to a few other 32-bit minis, like the Interdata 32. Dave From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 14 14:16:43 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980314121643.00f60740@pop.batnet.com> At 12:23 3/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >I don't think the sender INTENDS to send out HTML. If you really look >close at such messages, you will see an actual message.... >buried amongst the tags....which, when read on a client like Eudora or Netscape, >look fairly normal....it >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important fraction of the traffic. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 14 14:19:23 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: IIGS In-Reply-To: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Message-ID: >I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. >Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? >Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and >an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There >was no disk drive attached to the IIe. The IIgs can use most ADB keyboards, I think there is a list at www.apple2.org. IIRC, all Apple keyboards work, and most normal third-party keyboards work as well. I think a few of the Adesso keyboards have problems, but I've used mine(TruForm with the eraser head pointer) with it and it works fine, the FAQ lists it as usually compatible. As for the IIe/IIgs connection, it sounds more like it was connected with a null modem cable. About as close to networking as you can get without a network... You'll also want to check which ROM version it has, ROM 01 was the first, usually found in the Woz cases, then ROM 2 and then on to the most recent version, ROM 03. ROM 01 supposedly has some problems and should be upgraded, I'm not sure about ROM 2. It will tell you which version when you turn the computer on. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 14 14:28:03 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix Message-ID: <350AE853.F7F38EF2@enterprise.net> I have just got a couple of VT320s and connected one to my MicroVAX II instead of the Wyse 50 that came with it. I see more messages during the boot process now, including a menu at the start asking me what language to use. When I am using Ultrix and running vi how do I get back from edit to command mode - I can't find an Esc key on the VT320? TIA Pete From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 14 14:29:55 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: New web page Message-ID: I finally finished this version of the web page, it now has pictures of all of the expansion cards I have, taken with a Mavica FD-7 digital camera... That is one great camera! Too bad I don't own my own, I had to borrow one(actually, I took the cards to the camera)... The main page is completely different, I made very few modifications to the links, and added/deleted a few things from the computer page. Go check it out at http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Sat Mar 14 15:23:26 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Cipher Model ST150S-II In-Reply-To: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Dennis.M wrote: > I recently aquired 3 of these tape drives and have been trying to locate > any information on them to see if they are any good/worth useing. I was > surfing the web and saw some Email messages you sent concerning these > tape drives. That probably would've been me. I repaired and resold a pile of these drives a few years ago. I should still have all my notes around and maybe even a few parts. Is there anything in particular you were trying to find out? ok r. From spc at armigeron.com Sat Mar 14 15:25:33 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix In-Reply-To: <350AE853.F7F38EF2@enterprise.net> from "Pete Joules" at Mar 14, 98 08:28:03 pm Message-ID: <199803142125.QAA27707@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Pete Joules once stated: > > I have just got a couple of VT320s and connected one to my MicroVAX II > instead of the Wyse 50 that came with it. I see more messages during > the boot process now, including a menu at the start asking me what > language to use. > > When I am using Ultrix and running vi how do I get back from edit to > command mode - I can't find an Esc key on the VT320? Having a VT320, the ESC key can be in one of two places, depending upon how you set up the terminal (F3 for setup): F11 (or rather, where the F11 key would be if labeled as such, on my keyboard it's 'Alt Char') or just to the left of the '1' key (on my keyboard, labeled ~ESC`). One setting puts the ESC on F11, and the ~ESC` key returns ~`, the other setting has the ~ESC` key return ESC and the ~` characters are remapped to the key labeled >< (between the Z and left shift - and annoying me to no end). If all else fails, you can always hit Ctrl-[ to generate an ESC character. -spc (Would like to use the VT320, just ran out of serial ports on my Linux box 8-) From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Mar 14 16:02:48 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <350afdd0.4801708@mail.swbell.net> On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:19 -0800, you said: >Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for >the motorized vacuum pump models. I have two of the "hole-in-the-tip" irons, with tubing but no pump. (Made by Pace, Inc. as I remember) anyone have a pump or ever seen one available? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Mar 14 16:11:52 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <350c0009.5370182@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:39:20 -0800 (PST), you said: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> >> There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. >> Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) >> for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a >> question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up >> a BBS at the same number and all connect? > >Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the >bottom number. The same way they advertize one number you can call to order your very own Slim Whitman album. (Billions and billions call at once.) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From pjoules at enterprise.net Sat Mar 14 16:22:32 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:41 2005 Subject: VT320 and Ultrix References: <199803142125.QAA27707@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <350B0328.E92A1C9A@enterprise.net> Captain Napalm wrote: > > One setting puts > the ESC on F11, and the ~ESC` key returns ~`, the other setting has the > ~ESC` key return ESC and the ~` characters are remapped to the key labeled > >< (between the Z and left shift - and annoying me to no end). > > If all else fails, you can always hit Ctrl-[ to generate an ESC character. Thanks for the help - this is the first 'proper' terminal I have had so I am only just finding my way around. I didn't realise that they were as configurable as they are ;-) Regards Pete From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 14 16:49:45 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <350AE222.F3D3C04F@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Mar 14, 98 12:01:38 pm Message-ID: <199803142249.RAA00221@shell.monmouth.com> > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds > > like it might run on a VAX to me. > > > > UNIX 32V was a port of V7 to the VAX done at Bell Labs. > I believe it was also ported to a few other 32-bit minis, > like the Interdata 32. > > Dave > Actually the Interdata 8/32 and 7/32 ran Edition VII (a Version 7 port from Wollongong, and later the 3200 series had Xelos (a Perkin-Elmer port of SVR0 -- swapping not paging). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sat Mar 14 17:01:52 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803142301.XAA05885@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> anthony clifton: :Er...most ISPs (except the really big guys where all bets are off) really big guys...? well, aside from the hourlies, who would that be? aside from aol and compuserve (which don't sell internet access, they sell a nice new toy) the largest over here is really demon internet, with 90k users. what about over there? are there very big companies there that aren't the "pretend" ones? (we're assuming you meant compushite and arseholes online in your original comment, however.) our experience of ISPs is generally good, except that they all seem to have bandwidth problems. maybe that's because stuck as we are right between america and europe, we're in the middle of nowhere. ;> ;> anyway, this is way off-topic, so to bring it back on: what machine did the first tcp implementation pootle along on? also what's the smallest machine tcp has lived on so far? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Mar 14 16:54:19 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: IIGS References: Message-ID: <350B0A9B.C313D4EB@exit109.com> John Rollins wrote: > > >I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. > >Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? > >Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and > >an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There > >was no disk drive attached to the IIe. > You'll also want to check which ROM version it has, ROM 01 was the first, > usually found in the Woz cases, then ROM 2 and then on to the most recent > version, ROM 03. ROM 01 supposedly has some problems and should be > upgraded, I'm not sure about ROM 2. It will tell you which version when you > turn the computer on. Actually, there is no ROM 2 gs. There is the ROM 0 (most Woz's were this originally) which is pretty useless, except in //e mode. Apple offered, at one time, a free upgrade to ROM 1. ROM 1 is the first "usable" ROM. Apple then skipped "ROM 2" and went to ROM 3, the third released version. This is apparently the preferred ROM to have. <<> (who swants to find a //gs period... :-) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sat Mar 14 12:48:42 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980314121643.00f60740@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <199803142341.SAA28115@mail.cgocable.net> > >look fairly normal....it > >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, > >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and > >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. > > That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML > part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the > two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important > fraction of the traffic. This is real PITA! And also considered newbie too! Jason D. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 14 17:47:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: HP OmniShare In-Reply-To: <01bd4f70$ec0194e0$777833cf@default> Message-ID: While not a classic by any means, I scored a pair of HP OmniShare prototypes today. Has anybody ever heard of these things before? They are obscure freaks of compunature: pen-based, LCD display, and a little box (small, but not designed to be portable) with PCMCIA, ethernet, and a couple of phone jacks. I can post pix if there's interest. Here's a press clipping from Nov 1994: HP Intros OmniShare -- Hewlett-Packard has announced OmniShare conferencer, the first of a family of document conferencing products which feature simultaneous voice and data transmission. The pen and tablet-based product is capable of receiving, storing and transmitting faxed documents which can be annotated while voice transmissions discuss possible changes and additions. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 14 17:55:23 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <3.0.5.32.19980313125240.008fd8e0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 13, 98 12:52:40 pm <199803132352.SAA14801@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <350B18EB.385DDA7@bbtel.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > mobo for a busted SIMM socket. > Also on cheapie motherboard the contact fingers were too soft and had > to bend the board other way when installing the simms. > > > I've seen this stated on several newsgroups as well, but I can't > > understand why it's impossible to solder a new SIMM socket onto a > > motherboard. You can break up the old one, desolder the pins one at a > > time, fit a new one (I've seen them on sale in the UK), and solder it in. > > Takes about 10 minutes. I've done it before now. > That's what I would do if the latch is broken. > > > > There is a myth doing the rounds that it's impossible to use a soldering > > iron on PC parts. I don't know where it came from, but it's 100% false. > Duh! Truly 100% folkore story! :) There's a desoldering iron that Tandy/Radio Shack sells with a bulb and hollow tip that work great for desoldering items like the SIMM and SIPP connections. The tricky part is keeping the heat down when putting in the new one to prvent the hot metal connections from melting into the wrong place. The person that wrote about breaking the plastic off and desoldering the pins one at a time shows they have done this in the past since that's how I've done these and other multi connection items as well, such as Centronics 36 and 50 pc mount connectors. The only real trick is desoldering to salvage a component like that. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wpe at interserv.com Sat Mar 14 17:55:51 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: BBS Server/Clinet Software References: Message-ID: <350B1905.E103D277@interserv.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > > > There are plenty of free and shareware BBS programs on the 'net. > > Check out www.cdrom.com (SimTel) and www.filelibrary.com (Channel 1) > > for stuff. Channel 1 needs you to register, by the way. Here is a > > question for you all: How is it done that several people can dial up > > a BBS at the same number and all connect? > > Likely, the BBS has several numbers in rotary but only advertises the > bottom number. > - don > When I worked at DEC, our datacenter had dialups, where, you dialed one number,and it went into a "hunt chain", where, if the primary number was busied out, the telco automatically routed it to the next line (number) in the chain, until it found an open one. If all were tied up, than your dialing attempt returned a "busy". Each seperate line was connected to it's own modem, then, IIRR, they fed into a DECserver (model escapes me), then on to the ethernet.... Of course, this was after they took out the Gandalf switches... Will > > >Hello. A while back, I was asking about BBS stuff. Does anyone have a > > BBS > > >program (prefferably color, etc., possibly HTML-style), with > > server/client > > >software that they could give me? (I could pay for software, shipping, > > >etc.) > > > Thanks, > > > > > >Tim D. Hotze > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 14 16:20:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: <9803140453.AA14997@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 13, 98 08:53:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1022 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/7f3837f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 14 16:17:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Forget everything, lets In-Reply-To: from "John Rollins" at Mar 13, 98 08:46:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980314/f57b397a/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 14 20:04:35 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send from it. there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one does it. i'm staying far away from IE4 myself! david In a message dated 98-03-14 15:20:25 EST, you write: << That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important fraction of the traffic. Kip Crosby >> From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:39:32 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Soldering tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > OK, tips... <...> Tony's soldering tips are great and should be added to the FAQ. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:53:01 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <19980314181720.7305.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: [In response to Uncle Roger's spontaneous anti-AIWA quip...] > Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, > phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does > it damage CDs or something? > > > >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. > >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) This is an example of the kind of message that should go to private e-mail. Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sat Mar 14 20:59:38 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: IIGS In-Reply-To: <003701bd4f84$3d6134e0$2168420c@francois> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Francois wrote: > I just picked up an Apple IIGS without the keyboard. > Can I use a MAC keyboard on it? Yes. > Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and > an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There > was no disk drive attached to the IIe. Either someone's idea of a joke or thrift shop ignorance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 14 22:21:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Forget everything, lets talk soldering! :-) In-Reply-To: <350afdd0.4801708@mail.swbell.net> References: <001901bd4eea$2f714c70$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980314222157.502f7c3e@intellistar.net> At 10:02 PM 3/14/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:19 -0800, you said: > > > >>Those big vacuum ones are nice, and even more so for >>the motorized vacuum pump models. > >I have two of the "hole-in-the-tip" irons, with tubing but no pump. >(Made by Pace, Inc. as I remember) anyone have a pump or ever >seen one available? Yeah, I see them all the time at the hamfests. A complete one runs around $100. I bought one without the iron but with the hand grinder for $20. I bought a non working one with the iron for $10 a while back so now I have a complete one with ALL the attachments and extra parts for $30. >_______________ > >Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net >Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 14 21:25:28 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: Kip Crosby "Re: What's with the raw HTML?" (Mar 14, 12:16) References: <3.0.3.32.19980314091042.00e4a740@mail.jps.net> <3.0.5.32.19980314121643.00f60740@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <9803150325.ZM2904@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 14, 12:16, Kip Crosby wrote: > >I don't think the sender INTENDS to send out HTML. If you really look > >close at such messages, you will see an actual message.... Sure, but it's no less irritating. I've stopped reading most of them. Once or twice I've replied with suggestions to fix it; sometimes the sender has even fixed it :-) > That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML > part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the > two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important > fraction of the traffic. Unfortunately, quite a lot of *mail* readers can't handle that, especially the "multipart/alternative" header. Zmail stubbornly refuses to display either part, so I resort to /usr/sbin/Mail or /usr/bsd/mail if it's important. As far as I'm concerned, MIME is fine, but HTML has no business in email. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 14 21:29:12 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: SUPRDAVE "Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)" (Mar 13, 21:28) References: <6cf771eb.3509eb5b@aol.com> Message-ID: <9803150329.ZM2908@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 13, 21:28, SUPRDAVE wrote: > with all this talk of soldering and desoldering, is it possible for a layman > to do this with just a regular low wattage soldering iron? any tips from the > pros? Sure, with a little care and practice, but don't use a really low-power iron. Many of them don't have much thermal storage (some people call it thermal inertia) which means that when you place it on the joint, the heat flows out of the tip (to be shared with the joint) and it all cools down. It takes a while for the element to raise the temperature above the solder liquidus point again, and in the meantime that heat is travelling to all the places you don't want. Far better to use a reasonable wattage temperature-controlled iron (mine is 50W), which heats the joint up fast, so you can remove the iron fairly quickly. For the same reason, don't use *too* fine a bit. For larger stuff, I use a 120W Weller soldering gun which I bought in the heyday of valves (vacuum tubes, for you colonists). At the University, we have a Steinel temperature-controlled hot-air gun which chucks out lots of air at up to 400C, great for surface mount removals (and refitting/reflow, with care). There's a proper SMD station as well, but only one person is allowed near that. However, I confess I'm a member of the blowtorch club at at home. I can confirm that it's possible to remove DIL and SIMM sockets that way, as well as ICs! Personally, I use a fairly large piston-type desolder sucker. I hate braid - although it's good for removing bridges on SMDs - and hate those awkward desolder bulbs. I once had a vacuum desoldering iron, but it was always getting clogged... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 14 18:53:25 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Series/1 noisese and failures... 4967 dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Just curious... Curiosity killed the cat... Lucky we aren't cats! ;-) >Why not run a 240 V circuit to the S/1? Depending on the local electrical >code, it would be either easy, or very easy. Do not let the 240 scare you. I'm not scared of it(or at least not any more than 120V or the 20kV in monitors), and it would be relativley easy to install a 220v outlet, but it would be more convenient to convert it to 110v. There is an unused 220v outlet in the attic I could bypass and reroute it to the basement, and there is any empty spot in the breaker box, but it's more fun to play inside the Series/1. I'll learn house wiring later, right now I'm just going to convert the system. BTW, I have pulled the 220v motor out of the floppy drive, and the transformer is already set for 110v, all I need now is a new motor, cord and fuse and that will be done. The 4967 needs two new motors(one for the actual drive, one for the colling fan) and a fuse(I kinda have a cord hooked up), and the CPU jst needs a new fuse and cooling fan motor. I'm ignoring the 4959 right now, I don't really need it yet, and I haven't looked at the 4968 tape drive yet. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Mar 14 21:35:46 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses References: <199803142249.RAA00221@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <350B4C92.D4B1FAD5@exit109.com> Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > On another note, what platform does the V32 UNIX run on? Somehow it sounds > > > like it might run on a VAX to me. > > > > > > > UNIX 32V was a port of V7 to the VAX done at Bell Labs. > > I believe it was also ported to a few other 32-bit minis, > > like the Interdata 32. > > > > Dave > > > > Actually the Interdata 8/32 and 7/32 ran Edition VII (a Version 7 port > from Wollongong, and later the 3200 series had Xelos (a Perkin-Elmer > port of SVR0 -- swapping not paging). Actually there was *another* port of v7 to the 8/32. It was an internal Bell Labs port which may or may not have been derived from 32V. I recall hearing about it back when I was a sysadmin adt Monmouht College and our main (only) Unix box was an 8/32. It's mentioned in some of the literature as proof of the early portability of Unix. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find out much detail about the port. <<>> From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz Sat Mar 14 23:23:53 1998 From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What sort of Model 4 CPU board is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Also, does anyone know where I can get a schematic? I have the Model 3 >technical manual, which covers the monitor/drives/disk controller/RS232 >board/PSU, so all I need is the CPU board diagram. Tandy in the UK can no >longer supply a Model 4 Technical manual anyway. > >What is J10 (a 34 pin header alongside the Z80, above the printer port >chips) for? It's not used in my machine. > >-tony Hmmm how do you feel about some photocopying. I have the service manual for the 4 and the 4P However I do not have any manuals for the 3 and I want to rebuild one (I have 2 in parts and should be able to get atleast 1 going). So...what I am suggesting is that I copy the manual (some 200 pages) and post it to you and you do the same to me. The other option is that we will be getting a scanner here in a week or two and I can quickly scan the main PCB diagrams and send them in what ever format you want. Cheers Keith Whitehead +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+ From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 14 22:19:32 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <011301bd4fca$13a7e400$36f438cb@nostromo> Personally, I *love* IE4. However, the point of this message is to point out that you can make sure all your email is in plain text format by choosing Tools/Options/Send/Plain Text Its pretty simple, really. Cheers A >I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send from it. >there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one does it. i'm >staying far away from IE4 myself! From lfb107 at psu.edu Sat Mar 14 23:35:44 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803150537.AAA69424@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> At 06:53 PM 3/14/98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >[In response to Uncle Roger's spontaneous anti-AIWA quip...] > >> Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, >> phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does >> it damage CDs or something? >> > >> >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >> >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) > >This is an example of the kind of message that should go to private >e-mail. Thanks. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So is this. No, Thank YOU Les From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sun Mar 15 00:14:53 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: 7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS Message-ID: <199803150614.BAA26692@webern.cs.unc.edu> ] From: Wirehead Prime ] ] In repairing the SWTPC 6800 MP-A CPU board, I've discovered I THINK that ] a 7474 which is used to generate NOT HALT to the CPU (and to halt it ] under certain circumstances) is keeping the CPU halted all the time even ] though the bus says there's no reason for it to be halted. ] ...deletia ] ] Thanks... ] ] Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > From: "Jack Peacock" > > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) > should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast > pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if > memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic > probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? > maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC > driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is > hitting the R* input > > Anyway, I'd take it out and put in a socket if you think its > most likely cause > Jack Peacock Do you have anything funky plugged into that box? Later SWTPC systems had disk controllers doing DMA, but I'm not sure about the 6800. Does it lock up all the time? If so, can you yank everything except the MP-A and an MP-C or MP-S in port 1, and see if it still happens? In that case, there should be nothing wanting to do DMA, so the HALT* line should be permanently high - no possibility of sneaky fast pulses on the HALT line that you might overlook. Then everything is simple: If HALT* is still high on the SS-50 and low on the output of that 7474, then that 7474 is definitely ill. If the problem goes away when you do this, then maybe the 7474 is okay and maybe you've got some board doing spurious HALTs. OTOH, to keep the CPU halted, you'd have to be getting one of those sneaky pulses on the HALT line in every clock cycle; just one here and there wouldn't keep the CPU totally halted. Just on that basis alone, I'd say it's almost certain that the 7474's flip-flopping days are over. As for 7474 vs. 74LS74, since the output of this is only driving the one CPU input, I expect it should be okay. I think the main concern would be whether or not the replacement chip can drive as many inputs as the chip it is replacing, and an LS output can certainly drive one standard input. (Experts are welcome to correct me here!) Cheers, Bill. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 04:54:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Soldering tips In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 14, 98 06:39:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/48ee3583/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 05:02:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <350B18EB.385DDA7@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 14, 98 05:55:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/768fda15/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Mar 15 07:17:45 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: UNIX Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <350B4C92.D4B1FAD5@exit109.com> from "John Ruschmeyer" at Mar 15, 98 03:35:46 am Message-ID: <199803151317.IAA07834@shell.monmouth.com> Hi John -- > It's mentioned in some of the literature as proof of the early > portability > of Unix. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find out much detail > about the port. > > <<>> > Yup. The AT&T labs port happened and is mentioned in the Peter Salus book. However, I think it was internal only. It's a prime example how Interdata/Perkin-Elmer blew it. They (AT&T) were fairly impressed with the 8/32, however there was a problem with the I/O that AT&T wanted resolved in hardware. Interdata/Perkin-Elmer just said no and lost the opportunity to be the "11/70" system for all the phone company systems. (They needed the large address space and 32 bit addressing which became real with the Vax.) Just another way Concurrent missed the Unix boat -- big time. Bill btw -- for those collectors out there -- Trenton Computer Festival the weekend of April 18. http://www.dorsai.org/fair. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 20:43:31 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <01bd4fbc$244cc9a0$LocalHost@hotze> Curretly using IE4, I've got to say that MS does have some innovation left. The problem is that it comes TOO LATE to be useful. However, seeing as how the current version of Netscape and IE use HTML emails, and how an aditional 1 million people support it (with Hotmail), and how, when you get down to it, it does increase functionality, it's going to be a standard. IE4 does send it by default, but, you can change that by clicking on Format -> Plain Text. If the e-mail that you wish to respond to's in plain text, that's what it'll send. The problem is that if M$ supports it, the WHOLE WORLD suddenly has to all have HTML-ized e-mail readers. It's nice if you have it, but a pain in the A** if you don't. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 5:05 AM Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? >I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send from it. >there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one does it. i'm >staying far away from IE4 myself! > >david > >In a message dated 98-03-14 15:20:25 EST, you write: > ><< That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML > part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the > two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important > fraction of the traffic. > > Kip Crosby >> From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 14 20:53:06 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <01bd4fbd$7b1aa940$LocalHost@hotze> And I just learned that it was safe to tuch motherboard/cards when your computers on! (BTW, any one know aout DIMM stuff?) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 10:52 PM Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) > ><>FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked card ><>a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! >< > >Same here but some of the kids may never have heard of a propane torch! > > >Also SIP resistor packs, caps and even SMT devices. > >I've also been known to use gas stoves and even electric stoves. I've >found the electic stoves with care can be used to pull chips with no >board damage. > >Allison > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 09:26:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> > >And I just learned that it was safe to tuch motherboard/cards when your >computers on! (BTW, any one know aout DIMM stuff?) > Ciao, > >Tim D. Hotze Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, but he thinks there is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip. I don't discharge static all over chips, mind you, I just think most precautions are waay overblown. Or have I just been lucky? Also, have chips gotten more static-sensitive, or less? Should I be more careful with a 64 MB DIMM or a 16K chip (cost aside)? >>Same here but some of the kids may never have heard of a propane torch! I'm insulted... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 15 09:33:21 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: <199803150359.WAA26054@webern.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > As near as I can tell, the classiccmp web site has been down for > months now. I've tried probably fifty times since I-don't-know-when, > but haven't got it to come up. Do you have the inside scoop on that? > Without that, referring people to the FAQ isn't going to help much. Oh, sorry. That does tend to be a big problem. And yes, that web site has been flaky as hell for months now. I believe there is a mirror site somewhere that carries the FAQ. Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying around? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 09:45:54 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 15, 98 07:26:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/fb1c1f98/attachment.ksh From adept at mcs.com Sun Mar 15 10:09:59 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (Dan Stephans II) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? References: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> Message-ID: <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on as it is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is specified in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. If you mean that there are not standard tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is available for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alpha hardware. I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a proper argument. Cheers, Dan Allison J Parent wrote: > > There is the little matter of some several million (or more) unix(linux, > and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a standard. > For me and many of the hybrid users HTML means slow, slower and special > utilities to handle it and for what? What a waste of bandwidth. > > Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 05:09:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What sort of Model 4 CPU board is this? In-Reply-To: from "Keith Whitehead" at Mar 15, 98 05:23:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/bb453a49/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Mar 15 10:16:36 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> from "Dan Stephans II" at Mar 15, 98 10:09:59 am Message-ID: <199803151616.LAA24014@shell.monmouth.com> > > Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on as it > is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is specified > in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. If you mean that there are not standard > tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is available > for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alpha > hardware. I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, > however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a > proper argument. > > Cheers, > > Dan > > Allison J Parent wrote: Try running Netscape on Xenix-86. 8-( Bill From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 15 05:18:48 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... In-Reply-To: References: <199803150359.WAA26054@webern.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <199803151618.LAA20237@smtp.interlog.com> On 15 Mar 98 at 7:33, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > > > As near as I can tell, the classiccmp web site has been down for > > months now. I've tried probably fifty times since I-don't-know-when, > > but haven't got it to come up. Do you have the inside scoop on that? > > Without that, referring people to the FAQ isn't going to help much. > > Oh, sorry. That does tend to be a big problem. And yes, that web site > has been flaky as hell for months now. I believe there is a mirror site > somewhere that carries the FAQ. > > Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying around? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry , I missed the previous parts to this thread , but I do have a copy of the 3-part FAQ. Where should I forward it ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 15 10:25:03 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 15, 98 07:26:11 am Message-ID: <9803151625.AA17501@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1534 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/91a4ac2e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 09:26:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> from "Dan Stephans II" at Mar 15, 98 10:09:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/4f0da28b/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Mar 15 10:29:22 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Aiwa CD players Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980315082922.00e4cd20@mail.jps.net> First, Uncle Roger declared... >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) Max responded with... >Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, >phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does >it damage CDs or something? I think I know what Roger may be referring to, Max. About a year and something ago, I bought my mate an Aiwa 3-disc CD player/changer that also sported a SCSI port for the benefit of using data CDs. The thing was new, still in the box. After about a month, it died. I sent it off to Aiwa, they repaired it under warranty. It came back, lasted for about another year, then the mechanicals in the transport died. Permanently. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with Aiwa's later stuff (after 1993 or so). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Mar 15 10:33:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 15, 98 10:45:54 am Message-ID: <9803151633.AA17512@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/5e8202aa/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Mar 15 10:35:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980315083554.00e4a510@mail.jps.net> First, Tim Shoppa noted... >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. Then Kip Crosby added... >That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML >part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the >two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important >fraction of the traffic. The more I hear about Billy-boy, and the more I see of his company's "products" and arrogant attitudes, the less I like either one! Is there no amount of bandwidth waste or code-bloat that Micro$quat won't stoop to?! I knew there was a reason I'd started to get into Unix boxes. Thanks, guys! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 09:20:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 15, 98 10:45:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/da5b196b/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 11:04:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <19980315170419.29884.qmail@hotmail.com> Aaah, I see! When it comes to system stability, you Linux geeks come from all over saying how you can DEVELOP patches, but when we have some software that you don't, where is that trusty gcc? huh? huh? But seriously, is it so hard to patch Linux mail for HTML? >There is the little matter of some several million (or more) unix(linux, >and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a standard. >For me and many of the hybrid users HTML means slow, slower and special >utilities to handle it and for what? What a waste of bandwidth. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 11:11:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803151711.AA27109@world.std.com> <> Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on <> is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is spec <> in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. If you mean that there are not st <> tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is availa <> for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alph <> hardware. I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists <> however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate <> proper argument. OK, What HTML utility works on my pro350 under venix. Same question for my PDP-11s running RT-11? Or my ISP shell account (choice of ELM, PINE or MAIL)? Then there is the matter of my laptop (EPSON PX-8 running CP/M-80)? How about my VS2000 tunning ultrix-4.2 off a 71meg disk? Then there is the matter of my vaxen running VMS-5.5? The assumption of HTML standard, is modern CPU, lot's of ram, fast modem big disk and bandwidth to waste when the message doesn't warrent any of the above. This is particulary true when in some cases the message is repeated twice in clear text and HTML. Myself I find ti analogous of a ham firing up a full kilowatt to talk to the guy across the street, excessive and burdening to others. Both RFCs are not retro specification and do not make HTML required. They do make clear what HTML is and hwo to deal with it. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 11:11:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) Message-ID: <199803151711.AA27278@world.std.com> (maxeskin@hotmail.com) Message-ID: <199803151737.MAA29599@mail.iac.net> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:04:19 PST > From: "Max Eskin" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? [snip lots of whitespace] > Aaah, I see! When it comes to system stability, you Linux geeks come > from all over saying how you can DEVELOP patches, but when we have > some software that you don't, where is that trusty gcc? huh? huh? > But seriously, is it so hard to patch Linux mail for HTML? > >There is the little matter of some several million (or more) > unix(linux, > >and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a > standard. > >For me and many of the hybrid users HTML means slow, slower and special > >utilities to handle it and for what? What a waste of bandwidth. > > I've been running Linux since mid '94 during about the 1.0 days or so, and ran Venix on a PDP-11/23 I built in 8[45] at the tender age of 16. Linux users have had Netscape available to us since pretty much mcom's founding; yes it supports HTML in the mail client and _no_ I don't use it. Netscape isn't the only mail reader which can handle html, I'm sure folks here could rattle off numerous UNIX email clients which put PC stuff like Netscape/IE4/Eudora to shame in functionality. The point isn't whether I have available to me such tools that can filter and process html, but whether html is appropriate for email. Email standardized on plain text back in the late 70's and early eighties. Just like many PC users who wish to maintain compatability with old DOS applications, many old time email users are reluctant to give up compatability with their old favorite clients just to read your nonstandard email. Others just plain don't have a choice. For example, consider the many leaf UUCP nodes out in third world countries getting their village email from a 2400/9600bps modems... these guys _don't_ need html, but they _do_ need access to the Internet. Are you honestly going to tell them to upgrade, when their yearly income is probably less than my weekly salery? America isn't the only net user, and legacy hardware is the _norm_ around the world. J. Maynard Gelinas UNIX System Administrator - GTE Technologies BBN Speech Solutions Group From aaron at wfi-inc.com Sun Mar 15 13:45:04 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> Message-ID: But we don't want people to think that unix is just some dusty old beast that you can't view HTML mail on. Metamail is one that works, and of course Netscape is available for a SunOS/Solaris, Linux, Sco, etc. Personally, I get some kind of sick satisfaction in using my Atari 1200XL to access the internet, through a shell account. There's obviously no X environment for it and no PPP/SLIP for it either so I am all text all the time. It is a RPITA to have to wade through two hundred lines to get someone's "Hey, how's it going?" I'd love to just skip them, but I feel guilty just deleting my grandfather's messages without reading them. It's hard enough to get him on the net, let alone teach him how to properly configure his mail browser. ;-) It does seem a bit silly that we are making our email messages bigger and bigger with sound and graphics and at the same time populating our networks above the existing capacity.... Aaron On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > There is the little matter of some several million (or more) unix(linux, > and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a standard. > For me and many of the hybrid users HTML means slow, slower and special > utilities to handle it and for what? What a waste of bandwidth. > > Allison > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sun Mar 15 11:37:59 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980315083554.00e4a510@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315113759.009bf980@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:35 AM 3/15/98 -0800, you wrote: > First, Tim Shoppa noted... > [snip] > The more I hear about Billy-boy, and the more I see of his company's >"products" and arrogant attitudes, the less I like either one! Is there no >amount of bandwidth waste or code-bloat that Micro$quat won't stoop to?! > > I knew there was a reason I'd started to get into Unix boxes. Thanks, guys! > I have a copy of Bill's "Software for the masses" interview around here somewhere. It's really funny, because if you read it, he has basically advocated "Top 40" bloatware from day one. No one should be surprised--I mean, Microshaft has always intended it's products to be "toasterware," as easy as plugging toast into a toaster--that is, if you want to write a letter to Aunt Minny or play Solitaire from 9am to 5pm every day. I think that if the various Linux distros could polish up their docs and improve their online support, we could put a lot of pressure on Gates to rethink his crapware strategy. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a dark corner in a sub-basement somewhere in Redmond where a small team of hackers are already working on a potential Microsoft Linux distribution, just in case. I'm taking bets on Netscape doing the same thing--a complete Linux distribution with Communicator/Navigator, as well as a complete office suite and Netscape http server bundle. As soon as the masses forget about Barksdale's appearance in D.C., that is. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 13:04:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803151904.AA28447@world.std.com> There is the little matter of some several million (or more) <>unix(linux, and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is <>far from a standard. First off Standard in this case refers to established and present on every system. My reference to cusins referes to the non-public source unixes like Venix and also the non-unix, non-DOS, non-NT OSs that exist. Since I'll never run nyetscrape on the z80, 8088 or PDP-11. Sure it's possible (trivial) to write your own handler to strip the excess baggage, but I personally feel its rude to impose it on the reader. ALlison From aaron at wfi-inc.com Sun Mar 15 15:10:50 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:42 2005 Subject: Robots Message-ID: Just in case someone has missed their advertising blitz, the Discovery Channel is showing a special called Robots Rising tonight at 9pm ET. From the little preview on the Discovery web site (what I can see of it with lynx) it looks like there should be a lot of shots of classic machines in action.... Aaron From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 15 13:09:55 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Dan Stephans II wrote: > Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on as it > is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is specified > in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. If you mean that there are not standard > tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is available > for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alpha > hardware. I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, > however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a > proper argument. You missed the point. There is no argument. As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely no point to sending e-mail as HTML. Allison said it best though... > What a waste of bandwidth. And how. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 15 13:13:07 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Where's the FAQ? Message-ID: Sorry, I don't keep e-mail addresses handy. > Sorry , I missed the previous parts to this thread , but I do have a > copy of the 3-part FAQ. Where should I forward it ? Could the one who was asking please e-mail Larry Walker at: lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com ...removing the anti-spam features of his e-mail address of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Mar 15 08:13:44 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: HD jumper settings Message-ID: <010d01bd5046$447fc940$f8d2fea9@office1> Hello, all: Does anyone have the jumper settings for a Maxtor XT4380S hard drive? This thing is part of a Sun-clone "shoebox." The Maxtor Web site only has information on the drive's geometry and not the jumpers. I can't seem to get the SCSI address to show anything other than 4. TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 15 13:54:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <9803151625.AA17501@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <350C31F4.54AE871B@bbtel.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > >And I just learned that it was safe to tuch motherboard/cards when your > > >computers on! (BTW, any one know aout DIMM stuff?) > > Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to > > be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the > > only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in > > backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in > > my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over > > my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you > > touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch > > those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, but he thinks there > > is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip. > > I've seen sites where the admnistration decided that every user must ground > themselves on a special several-hundred-dollar anti-static discharge pad > before they would be allowed to even touch a computer keyboard. I think > the anti-static-equipment salesman did a really, really, good job on these > folks Any of the static prevention steps apply to prevent accidental discharge, but not everyone has a natural capacitance that allows them to store and discharge static electricity. I work with all types of components that could be damaged and have never even seen a spark or a damaged item. My wife touches anything and kills it. Of course the humidity factor is also important. In a heated house in the middle of winter there is a great chance of ESD where summer after heavy rains with 99% relative humidity lowers all of these factors by a number of times. The whole idea of all of this (other than someone making a buck on antistatic items) is to prevent the POSSIBLE discharge of electrostatic electricity into a device that could be damaged by such a jolt. Now when I was changing electrical initiators/igniters on 2000 Short Range Attack Missile electro-explosive devices, I didn't even try to see if I was prone to static discharge - I just wore the straps and did the proceedures. The end result of being wrong was a bit more than a dead semiconductor. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From thorh at ismennt.is Sun Mar 15 19:46:51 1998 From: thorh at ismennt.is (Thorhallur Ragnarsson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980315194651.2bffb4dc@pop.ismennt.is> At 07:26 15.03.1998 PST, Max Eskin wrote: >Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to >be baloney....... No, unfortunately this can be a real problem, some years ago when working as test engineer for DNG Electronics, we suddenly had skyrocketing failure rates in assembly of equipment containing CMOS logic. Everybody involved was grounded with a 1Mohm wrist strap so this was quite a mystery until we noticed that when carrying the boards from the test bench to the final assembly, the lead from the strap was too short and the carrier had to disconnect it for the 6 feet trip across the floor, this zapped approx. 30% of the boards. His shoes must have been something!! >...................... When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in >my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over >my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you >touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch >those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, ...... Well, we have no way of knowing that. Static damage may just weaken the chips so they fail later. >.............. but he thinks there >is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip. That may also be a problem, the _voltages_ involved can be very high, in fact several kV, so the sparks jump easily 1/4-1/2" across insulated surfaces. When handling small items like SIMM?s or DIMM?s the _current_ in the discharge is way below what we normally can feel or see, so one tends to think no harm is done, but we have no way of knowing. >I don't discharge static all over chips, mind you, I just think most >precautions are waay overblown. Or have I just been lucky? Yes, I hope we are lucky. I do not normally wear an antistatic wrist strap, I just try to wear cotton clothes, "touch the case" often and avoid rubbing against all those synthetic surfaces (table, chair, carpet etc.). When dealing with old equipment I try to be even more careful as it may be more static sensitive and spares harder to find. ??rhallur. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh@ismennt.is Iceland -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 14:05:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <19980315200511.25412.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry for any whitespace, folks... When was this interview taken? >advocated "Top 40" bloatware from day one. No one should be surprised--I >mean, Microshaft has always intended it's products to be "toasterware," as >easy as plugging toast into a toaster--that is, if you want to write a >letter to Aunt Minny or play Solitaire from 9am to 5pm every day. I don't quite see what you mean.. I have concluded a while ago that he isn't quite sane. I mean, in "Triumph of the Nerds", they said he gets up every day afraid of being taken over... >rethink his crapware strategy. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there >is a dark corner in a sub-basement somewhere in Redmond where a small team >of hackers are already working on a potential Microsoft Linux distribution, >just in case. I'm taking bets on Netscape doing the same thing--a complete I'll bet Win95 is compiled on Linux! But AFAIK, Gates's BASIC interpreter for the altair required a RAM add-on pack! Truly bloatware from day one. Why Gates decided to flip the switches on the front panel several thousand extra times mystifies me. Maybe that's why you're all getting Altairs with worn out switches;) >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for >IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 15 14:12:27 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <199803151737.MAA29599@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <13339942448.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Linux can have html mail...] But TOPS-20 can't! Just knock off the HTML mail, I have to ^Q at the end of each page, and since TOPS is a text-only terminal, HTML makes quite a mess... ------- From mor at crl.com Sun Mar 15 14:27:25 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? References: Message-ID: <350C39AD.63B6A83E@crl.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is the little matter of some several million (or more) unix(linux, > > and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a standard. > > While it's obviously going to be possible to write an HTML mail client for > linux (or any other unix) - There already is, it's called Netscape. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 15 14:24:35 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) References: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <350C3903.3D6DF270@rain.org> Max Eskin wrote: > Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to > be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the > only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in > backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in Not to send out a major flame, but your comments about most precautions being baloney merely show a lack of familiarity with the problem. As Tony pointed out (thankfully!), many problems do not show up immeadiately. We have a number of defense contractors (Delco, Raytheon, SBRC, etc.) here in Santa Barbara and the steps they go through during circuit board assembly are rigorous to say the least. In talking to the instructors and others who are in charge of and actually do the assembly consider static precautions to be important. If reliability is at all important, don't take the matter of static protection lightly. From pjoules at enterprise.net Sun Mar 15 14:18:16 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? References: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> Message-ID: <350C3788.67BD7605@enterprise.net> Dan Stephans II wrote: > I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, > however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a > proper argument. > Try starting with the opposite premise - it has always been considered to be inconsiderate to post anything other than plain ASCII text by mail unless _explicitly_ requested otherwise by the recipient. Now formulate a good arguement for posting HTML _especially_ to a classic list. (Dons asbestos suit and runs for cover ;-) Regards Pete From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sun Mar 15 15:20:08 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <19980315200511.25412.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315152008.00922aa0@pop3.webzone.net> At 12:05 PM 3/15/98 PST, you wrote: >Sorry for any whitespace, folks... >When was this interview taken? Early 80s, 82? I don't have time to find it right now, but maybe I'll post it here some time next week, at least the relevant parts. IIRC, his vision included PCs with big disk and RAM so the need for efficiency wouldn't get in the way of cranking out titles after title of bloatware. >>advocated "Top 40" bloatware from day one. No one should be >surprised--I >>mean, Microshaft has always intended it's products to be "toasterware," >as >>easy as plugging toast into a toaster--that is, if you want to write a >>letter to Aunt Minny or play Solitaire from 9am to 5pm every day. >I don't quite see what you mean.. I mean it's "software for the the masses," everything's a black box. If the Win 95 registry gets hosed, re-install the whole OS (I've yet to remedy a damaged registry by restoring a backup), then all your apps (10 or 15 in my case); it's a full 10 hour project for me, even with Win95 and most apps on CD, and any install diskettes loaded on a single Zip disk. Linux/Unix OTOH, if it's screwed up, just figure out which script to fix or re-install a library module or two. I've never had a blow-up on my IBM 5363 Sys/36 either. It's not a speed demon, but it is dependable. [snip] >I'll bet Win95 is compiled on Linux! I think if there were only one target to go after, Gates would have the "owners" of Linux in his board room tomorrow, trying to pressure them into selling out so he could eliminate the threat. I wonder if he's tried to romance Linus yet? >But AFAIK, Gates's BASIC >interpreter for the altair required a RAM add-on pack! Truly bloatware >from day one. Why Gates decided to flip the switches on the front >panel several thousand extra times mystifies me. Maybe that's why >you're all getting Altairs with worn out switches;) The other day I was moving one of the MS Office products from the orig. install diskettes to Zip (was it Access 2.0?), and I noticed what looked like an OS/2 EA file in the directory of one of the diskettes. I wonder if that's from compiling/maintaining on an OS/2 box, or if it's from an earlier version of NT? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 15:38:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803152138.AA21976@world.std.com> <> What HTML utility works on my pro350 under venix. <> < Same question for my PDP-11s running RT-11? <> Or my ISP shell account (choice of ELM, PINE or MAIL)? < Then there is the matter of my laptop (EPSON PX-8 running CP/M-80)? < How about my VS2000 tunning ultrix-4.2 off a 71meg disk? <> Then there is the matter of my vaxen running VMS-5.5? < I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list for the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs Windows, NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing list say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please, lets cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we all enjoy discussing!!! A From adept at mcs.com Sun Mar 15 15:41:22 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (Dan Stephans II) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? References: , <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> <350C39AD.63B6A83E@crl.com> Message-ID: <350C4B02.F28AD086@mcs.com> That is much better. :) Dan Greg Troutman wrote: > Dan Stephans II wrote: > > I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, > > however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a > > proper argument. > > > > Try starting with the opposite premise - it has always been considered > to be > inconsiderate to post anything other than plain ASCII text by mail > unless > _explicitly_ requested otherwise by the recipient. > > Now formulate a good arguement for posting HTML _especially_ to a > classic > list. > > (Dons asbestos suit and runs for cover ;-) > > Regards > Pete From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Mar 15 15:39:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Re: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <008201bd505a$d5ee87e0$0ff438cb@nostromo> I have some disks from an unreleased drive for the Radofin Aquarius II computer - but, unfortunately, I have no drive. "Hitachi 2.8 inch drive" is mentioned in the leaflet I have - can anyone shed any light on this drive, and the possibility of obtaining something which might read the disks? You can see the disks and drive @ http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/aqdisk.jpg http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/floppy.jpg A From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 15 16:07:56 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980315113759.009bf980@pop3.webzone.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19980315083554.00e4a510@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: >just in case. I'm taking bets on Netscape doing the same thing--a complete >Linux distribution with Communicator/Navigator, as well as a complete >office suite and Netscape http server bundle. As soon as the masses forget You mean "Caldera OpenLinux"? I'm sure Netscape is involved with this product, looks cool, and the next distribution I entend to try out, it has everything you mention above. I Picked up a 6 CD RedHat distribution yesterday and was very surprised how easy to install it is, guess that means I'm done with Slackware. Just wish RedHat included the netatalk client, and IP Masqurading/Firewall (actually it might have the last two and I just didn't see them). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 16:11:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <19980315221121.23658.qmail@hotmail.com> MS bashing in a MODERN context is off-topic, yes, but saying how BASIC for the Altair was bloated certainly is the best of both worlds IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before the 80's? >I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list for >the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs Windows, >NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing list >say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please, lets >cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we all >enjoy discussing!!! >A > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sun Mar 15 16:12:21 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <007901bd5059$d4d6cbc0$0ff438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315161221.00924780@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:31 AM 3/16/98 +1100, you wrote: >I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list for >the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs Windows, >NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing list >say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please, lets >cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we all >enjoy discussing!!! >A I forgot to mention in my previous post, here's an interview where Gates talks about IMSAI, Altair and some other early small systems (no bashing). Also some background on development of the MS BASICs and various other MS products. This is one article with a list of links into several different sections, but you can pick out the interesting stuff real easily. http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gatestoc.htm -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 15 16:22:58 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: HD jumper settings In-Reply-To: <010d01bd5046$447fc940$f8d2fea9@office1> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have the jumper settings for a Maxtor XT4380S hard drive? > This thing is part of a Sun-clone "shoebox." The Maxtor Web site only has > information on the drive's geometry and not the jumpers. I can't seem to get > the SCSI address to show anything other than 4. > > TIA! > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > ============================================ > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sun Mar 15 16:27:43 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: HD jumper settings In-Reply-To: <010d01bd5046$447fc940$f8d2fea9@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315162743.00812810@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:13 AM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > Does anyone have the jumper settings for a Maxtor XT4380S hard drive? >This thing is part of a Sun-clone "shoebox." The Maxtor Web site only has >information on the drive's geometry and not the jumpers. I can't seem to get >the SCSI address to show anything other than 4. > > TIA! Have you tried http://www.microhouse.com/? They did have an online lookup for drive specs, not sure if it's still there or not. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 15 17:40:22 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: IIGS Message-ID: <008401bd506b$ce2cb0c0$8769420c@francois> >> Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and >> an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There >> was no disk drive attached to the IIe. > >Either someone's idea of a joke or thrift shop ignorance. Well actaully the guy pointed to the IIe when I asked about the keyboard. They probably thought the the IIe WAS the keyboard! BTW what kind of problems can I expect with the ROM 01 (wich is the one I have)? ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Mar 15 17:23:14 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <004f01bd506a$0c0bd760$bd27a2ce@cliffgre> I don't want to be the skunk at the lawn party here, but it should be pointed out that e-mail is fast becoming the communication medium of choice for both business and pleasure. I suppose you could argue that there is no need for a company to have a fancy letterhead, nor a mass mailer to have colored brochures, nor ladies to have flowered and/or scented stationery, yet we do have all these things, and more. Consider how boring text-only, fixed-font mail would be. Or did Henry Ford have it right when he proclaimed that all we really "needed" was black automobiles? Yes, I understand the argument that in the case of snail mail, the sender pays for all the frills, but in the case of e-mail, the recipient more than likely pays with longer download times, disk clutter, etc. A very valid and not trivial point. Nevertheless, technology marches on, and as cable modems (or whatever) become the norm rather than the exception, "waste" of bandwidth and its associated costs will cease to an issue with the computing public at large. If my wife wants to embed scanned newspaper clippings or a kid's picture in an email to her cousin across country, who am I (or anyone) to object? I don't disagree with much that has been said here on the subject. I don't use HTML formatted e-mail, and don't especially like receiving it, nonetheless I accept that sooner or later it will become the norm (I don't like the term "standard") rather than the exception. Formatted email may never be, nor probably should be, appropriate on a classic computer mailing list; yet, who knows, in ten years or so the definition of "classic computer" may change as well. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 3:14 PM Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? > >You missed the point. There is no argument. As far as I'm concerned, >there's absolutely no point to sending e-mail as HTML. > >Allison said it best though... > >> What a waste of bandwidth. > >And how. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun Mar 15 17:37:18 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <199803140221.AA13448@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803152337.KAA06116@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:21 AM 14-03-98 +0000, Allison J Parent wrote: >FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked cards >a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! Obviously >the board would get toasted but you could get the chips off fairly clean >and fast. Though once I seriously over did it on the heat. The result >is a old 7400 that is bent some in the middle...it still worked! My usual practice is to place the board to be unsoldered upside down in the oven raised above a tray. Heat until solder melts and gravity has it's way. Fast, neat, clean. Pity you can't speed the process up by using a microwave :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Mar 15 17:59:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <199803152359.AA12489@world.std.com> But AFAIK, Gates's BASIC <>interpreter for the altair required a RAM add-on pack! Truly bloatware <>from day one. Why Gates decided to flip the switches on the front <>panel several thousand extra times mystifies me. Maybe that's why <>you're all getting Altairs with worn out switches;) HUH? What? The altairs needed 4k of ram to run 4k basic and 8k to run 8kbasic. Basic8k for altair was only about 6100 bytes. THere were smaller basics but all of them gave up something, like floating point or strings. As to the switch flipping, that was due to the crummy MITS 88ACR that would often require several tries to get a clean load. After it BASIC loaded the switches were an artifact though to could input data via port FFh under program control. To beat the need to pound switches I put a small 64byte bootrom on a board and copied the loaded image to phase encoded digital tape(home brew) to get from the slow error prone 300baud to a zippy and I may add very reliable 4800. Don't blame the cow for soggy cereal. I would say that 8kbasic was the first decent software product from MS though it was soon to change in the early 80s. FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were bloatware by any standard. Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Mar 15 17:57:09 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Update on Sun3 and shoebox Message-ID: <012301bd506e$4070c980$f8d2fea9@office1> Well, I was finally able to make two QIC tapes (boot and install) using NetBSD for x86. The tape drive ran fine, with no errors. So then I hooked the shoebox up to the 3/50 that I have, and using the monitor, issued "b st(0,6,0)" to boot from the tape. The 3/50 seems to access the drive (I can see the heads move), but either aborts with a "Device Not Found" error, or the following: scsi getbyte failed invalid status message = FFFFFFFF st: sense key = 6 error = 29 I'm not able to get any further than this. Any thoughts?? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 14:31:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <350C39AD.63B6A83E@crl.com> from "Greg Troutman" at Mar 15, 98 12:27:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2008 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/982832fc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 14:43:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <9803151633.AA17512@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 15, 98 08:33:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/024996d9/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 18:43:36 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: E-mail bloat Message-ID: <19980316004336.9763.qmail@hotmail.com> [Viewing an attached word file on an HP-UX] a)Most people working on PCs with Word have no idea what an HP-UX is b)Most such people have no idea that there is a machine on the planet not running word c)Most such people don't even realize that they are running word or attaching a word format file to email It is a byproduct of things being easy to use. Same reason as many americans have no idea where England is. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 17:55:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <004f01bd506a$0c0bd760$bd27a2ce@cliffgre> from "Cliff Gregory" at Mar 15, 98 06:23:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3010 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/5fb6fb22/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 17:38:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <19980315221121.23658.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 15, 98 02:11:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/14beadf1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 15 17:32:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Re: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <008201bd505a$d5ee87e0$0ff438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 16, 98 08:39:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1333 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980315/201654e5/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Sun Mar 15 19:56:58 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Update on Sun3 and shoebox In-Reply-To: <012301bd506e$4070c980$f8d2fea9@office1> (rcini@email.msn.com) Message-ID: <199803160156.UAA10751@mail.iac.net> Hi Rich, I think when you b st(controller LUN file) file the sun3 _automatically_ assumes st is at LUN 4. So, presuming your QIC tape is actually set at SCSI ID 4, you should boot it like 'b st' which defaults as 'b st(0,0,0)', with (0,4,0) being _implied_ (yes, I think it's weird too). Now INSTALL mentions that you may have to use the 'conv=osync' argument to dd if makeBootTape doesn't work. 'osync' is not in my linux man pages, however sync is. It allows one to pad a number of nulls defined by ibs per input block. Don't know if osync is different, however. Honestly, I just installed NetBSD on my Sun3x and I used the Netboot method, almost painlessly. I didn't fiddle with old, klunky, tapes, or a tape drive standard older than Rip Van Windkle (**cough**, on topic discussions here asside). I strongly suggest you Netboot the sucker. I found it a snap. Also, change the tape drive to SCSI 4, and then do a b st(0,0,0). Also, see: http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/install/install.phtml And dont forget your friend 'INSTALL' - helped me handle my first NetBSD install tremendously! Cheers, --jmg > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:57:09 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Update on Sun3 and shoebox > > Well, I was finally able to make two QIC tapes (boot and install) using > NetBSD for x86. The tape drive ran fine, with no errors. > > So then I hooked the shoebox up to the 3/50 that I have, and using the > monitor, issued "b st(0,6,0)" to boot from the tape. The 3/50 seems to > access the drive (I can see the heads move), but either aborts with a > "Device Not Found" error, or the following: > > scsi getbyte failed > invalid status message = FFFFFFFF > st: sense key = 6 error = 29 > > I'm not able to get any further than this. Any thoughts?? > From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 15 20:27:45 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <19980315170419.29884.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980315170419.29884.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35108d82.4646490@mail.swbell.net> On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:04:19 PST, you said: >But seriously, is it so hard to patch Linux mail for HTML? I don't WANT to patch anything for no benefit. HTML would add nothing to this message nor to any other I've sent. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 15 20:54:16 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980315152611.17352.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <351191f9.5789589@mail.swbell.net> On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 07:26:11 PST, you said: >And I just learned that it was safe to touch motherboard/cards when your >computers on! I've replaced components (R's, C's, tube sockets, to name a few) in a ground-based radar system with power applied. (150-300 volts was common) All that was really needed was another person, (in case of electrocution) an isolated-from-ground soldering iron, and isolated tools (e.g. rubber-handled needle-nosed pliers). We needed to be able to return the equipment to service quickly, without waiting for reheat times and such. (Don't try this at home :^) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 15 20:48:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980315204805.00b4b2a0@pc> Tim Shoppa wrote: >I know some folks who work at Microsoft and everything they send me from their >"work" address is a several-hundred-line MS-Word document that is, of >course, MIME-encoded. Typically I can decode it and dump the file to >find the single line of real text that they thought they were sending me. For those few of us who might also check their Word documents in binary, you'll find that Word also stores quite a bit of its undo buffers in the saved document. Yes, no kidding. I've received letters and contracts from people who didn't realize this. By studying the binary, you can see their last few revisions. :-) People often create a "new" letter by revising an old document. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 15 20:57:14 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: Tim Shoppa "Re: What's with the raw HTML?" (Mar 15, 8:33) References: <9803151633.AA17512@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <9803160257.ZM9493@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 15, 8:33, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? > [ snip ] but to me > the real standard is: > > Flat text should be sent as flat text. I couldn't agree more :-) > The number of MIME-encoded flat text documents I receive every day is > just plain silly. And with this. That's why I don't even bother to read a lot of that stuff, unless the Subject: line and/or From: makes me think I need to. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 15 20:52:26 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: Dan Stephans II "Re: What's with the raw HTML?" (Mar 15, 10:09) References: <199803151545.AA08281@world.std.com> <350BFD57.75786B68@mcs.com> Message-ID: <9803160252.ZM9486@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 15, 10:09, Dan Stephans II wrote: > Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? > Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on as it > is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is specified > in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. Sure, but that's not really the issue. In any case, M$ blatantly ignore those standards. > If you mean that there are not standard > tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is available > for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alpha > hardware. HTML is a markup language designed for web pages. Netscape is primarily designed for web pages, not mail. It is a very inefficient tool for mail. And what if you're not running X Windows? I completely agree with Allison and others, that HTML has no place in textual mail. It is completely unneccessary, and wastes both bandwidth and time. I suspect you agree, at least in part, with that. > I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists, > however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate a > proper argument. > > Cheers, > > Dan > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > > > > > > > There is the little matter of some several million (or more) unix(linux, > > and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is far from a standard. > > For me and many of the hybrid users HTML means slow, slower and special > > utilities to handle it and for what? What a waste of bandwidth. > > > > Allison -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 15 21:14:32 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: Thorhallur Ragnarsson "Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)" (Mar 15, 19:46) References: <3.0.3.16.19980315194651.2bffb4dc@pop.ismennt.is> Message-ID: <9803160314.ZM9502@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 15, 19:46, Thorhallur Ragnarsson wrote: > Subject: Re: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : Hooray! At 07:26 15.03.1998 PST, Max Eskin wrote: > > >Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to > >be baloney....... I've spent a lot of my working life repairing boards that have been blown up, so I can't agree. > No, unfortunately this can be a real problem, some years ago when working > as test engineer for DNG Electronics, we suddenly had skyrocketing failure > rates in assembly of equipment containing CMOS logic. Everybody involved > was grounded with a 1Mohm wrist strap so this was quite a mystery until we > noticed that when carrying the boards from the test bench to the final > assembly, the lead from the strap was too short and the carrier had to > disconnect it for the 6 feet trip across the floor, this zapped approx. 30% > of the boards. His shoes must have been something!! > > >...................... When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in > >my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over > >my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you > >touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch > >those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, ...... > > Well, we have no way of knowing that. Static damage may just weaken the > chips so they fail later. That's quite a common effect. One of the big electronics companies published some figures on it a ten years or so ago. Often, it may alter a device's response to high frequencies as well. But I don't agree with those who say you must never touch a chip, or must hold it by the ends without touching the pins. If I have to carry an EPROM or similar without antistatic foam, I make a point of ensuring that all the pins are touching my finger, on the grounds that my slightly-conductive skin is keeping all the pins at the same potential. > Yes, I hope we are lucky. I do not normally wear an antistatic wrist strap, > I just try to wear cotton clothes, "touch the case" often and avoid rubbing > against all those synthetic surfaces (table, chair, carpet etc.). > When dealing with old equipment I try to be even more careful as it may be > more static sensitive and spares harder to find. I once (mid-80s) had several calls from a school that had refitted a computer room; machines kept crashing, usually at the start of a class. I only remember one permanent fault, but when I eventually asked the right question, it turned out they had a new carpet with a high nylon content. I suggested they spray the carpet with very dilute carpet cleaner in one of those mister bottles that plant lovers always seem to have, and to repeat that once a week or so. The problems went, and never came back. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sun Mar 15 21:30:21 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: classiccmp FAQ/web page Message-ID: <199803160330.WAA02614@webern.cs.unc.edu> Actually, I got my own copy of the "NAQ" when I subscribed; I don't need another. I was just pointing out to Sam that the official classiccmp web page has been out of reach for quite a long time now, so there is no point in referring people to it. So, once again, I'd like to urge everyone to participate in building a classiccmp distributed web page. Take a look at this URL, http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/dwp.html and then go add those meta-tags to your pages. Okay, now I'll stop pushing this once and for all. Cheers, Bill. ] From dastar@wco.com Sun Mar 15 10:33:26 1998 ] ] On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > As near as I can tell, the classiccmp web site has been down for ] > months now. I've tried probably fifty times since I-don't-know-when, ] > but haven't got it to come up. Do you have the inside scoop on that? ] > Without that, referring people to the FAQ isn't going to help much. ] ] Oh, sorry. That does tend to be a big problem. And yes, that web site ] has been flaky as hell for months now. I believe there is a mirror site ] somewhere that carries the FAQ. ] ] Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying around? ] ] Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ] Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ] ] Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 ] See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From david at mather.com Sun Mar 15 21:28:35 1998 From: david at mather.com (David Mather) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> ----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent >I would say that 8kbasic was the first decent software product from MS >though it was soon to change in the early 80s. > >FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM Compiler >for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were bloatware by any >standard. Quite right. Early MS products were extremely good quality software, particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but highlight MS Decathlon). Pity they couldn't (or wouldn't) keep up the good work. Does the demise of quality stem from the departure of Paul Allen? I don't know when he left MS. David "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." A. A. Milne Winnie-the-Pooh, Ch. 4 From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Mar 15 22:20:11 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> References: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> Message-ID: <3516a7a2.11334597@mail.swbell.net> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:28:35 +0800, you said: >Early MS products were extremely good quality software, >particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely >bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but >highlight MS Decathlon). I have a copy of Microsoft Word for DOS 4.0; looks a lot like Multiplan. (A pity!) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 15 22:36:45 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: ASR-33 questions In-Reply-To: <199803040104.UAA02901@ns3.qth.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980315223645.00b6ae40@pc> After long hoping to get one someday, this weekend I found an Teletype ASR-33 in a dumpster at the UW-Madison surplus center. It appears to be working in most respects. In local mode, I was able to type characters although the ribbon was a bit dry. However, when it reached the right margin, it would not "return". Line feed works. The geared belt is tight, and pressing additional characters strains it and sometimes makes it "chunk" as if it were trying to jump a tooth. I tinkered with the L-shaped catch on the belt that appears to engage a lever when the carriage reaches the right side. Right now, this L-catch is to the left of the lever, which gives me the impression that it didn't catch the way it was supposed to, and now the machine is stuck in a position that I need to learn how to free. Any ideas? The data cable has nine wires to an HP-labelled edge-card connector. Is this 20 ma current loop? I thought that was just four wires. How difficult is it to get a service manual for one of these? Is there a date-code some where on it? Will it read a five-level Baudot paper tape as well as seven-bit, assuming I can translate Baudot to ASCII? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From gram at cnct.com Sun Mar 15 23:43:09 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... References: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> <3516a7a2.11334597@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <350CBBED.7ABB1F67@cnct.com> Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:28:35 +0800, you said: > > >Early MS products were extremely good quality software, > >particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely > >bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but > >highlight MS Decathlon). > > I have a copy of Microsoft Word for DOS 4.0; looks a lot like > Multiplan. (A pity!) Matters of taste. I always liked MultiPlan on everything from the TRS-80 Model II (and 4) to the Unix version. Never had a problem with the user interface, which I prefer to the slash menus used by VisiCalc, SuperCalc, Lotus etc. But putting that same interface on Word for DOS made that my least favorite word processor to that point, and I've known some bad ones over the years. I _still_ prefer MultiPlan to the monster that Redmond replaced it with. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 16 00:54:51 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Trade list Message-ID: <350CCCBB.39D40562@crl.com> I need to unload a lot of things that are taking up way too much room. In many cases I'm willing to part with large quantities of my items in exchange for just a single little thing I might need: Available --------- 1 - Complete working systems and lots of accessories and software for: Apple II (no systems, just boards, drives, s/w) Atari 8 bits Atari 520ST/1040ST (including monitors) Commodore Vic-20, 64, 128 (including monitors) TI-99/4A Tandy TRS-80 CoCo II and III (Just let me know of anything specific you are looking for) 2 - Commodore SX-64. Missing the carry handle, the keyboard cable (should be easy to make, I'll pinout the one I have), and the sound is not working. Picture is good though and other than sound it works fine. 3 - Fairly dirty little Tandy MC-10. Has a substitute 6VDC adapter and works fine. 4 - Several external SCSI HD (20, 65, 80 Mb models) and SCSI Syquest-44 compatible drive (PLI Infinity). These are all tested and work fine with my Macs. 5 - Lots of older MPU, MCU, Peripheral, RAM, EPROM chips--some NOS, some pulls--just inquire. 6 - Some non-classiccmp stuff but closely related: Classic Video game systems and carts (2600, 5200, Colco, Intv, etc.) Compaq DeskPro 4/33 w/DX4-100 CPU upgrd, 12Mb RAM, 1Gb HD (have 3) Compaq ProSignia server 486-66 Wanted ------ 1 - Disk Drives w/cables for CBM PET 2 - Modem and cassette cables, ROM upgrades, expansion items for Tandy 100/102 3 - CP/M cart for C64/128 4 - SpartaDos cart for Atari 8 bit 5 - Keyboard w/cable and DOS for HP 150A 6 - RGB DB-25 cable for Sony SMC-70 7 - Intel 8224 and 8228 peripheral chips 8 - Good battery packs for TI calcs: SR-50, SR-52, and TI-58C 9 - Systems: RCA Cosmac, AdventureVision game console, Exidy Sorcerer, Magnavox Odyssey, Vector Graphics (anything but MZ), P.T. SOL-20... er Apple 1, III, Lisa... I'll consider just about any condition item from the last section above, and would also consider most any working system or good drives, boards, terminals, etc. from pre-1980, that I don't already have. Just let me know what you've got... BTW, I'm in California, about 20 minutes north of SF. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From aaron at wfi-inc.com Mon Mar 16 03:31:27 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: I just finished watching that Discovery program on Robots and was wondering if anyone involved in the list has previously/is currently working in that field Also, does anyone know how much of an influence the use of computer systems by all of those AI reasearches in the late 70's/early 80's had on system designs? I'd be interested to hear any opinions/anecdotes/etc on this stuff. Aaron From engine at chac.org Mon Mar 16 01:38:33 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <350CBBED.7ABB1F67@cnct.com> References: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> <3516a7a2.11334597@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315233833.00fdf3d0@pop.batnet.com> At 00:43 3/16/98 -0500, Ward wrote: >I always liked MultiPlan....But putting that same interface on >Word for DOS made that my least favorite word processor to that >point, and I've known some bad ones over the years.... Matters of taste, again. Microsoft Word for DOS 4.0, even with its buggy file handling, was the version that finally pulled me away from WordStar; I liked having so many more formatting options, and at about that same time I got my Laserjet Plus, for which MicroPro's drivers were impossible. The Word menu was much better after it lost the Alpha command. I upgraded to Word for DOS 5.0 -- best DOS version IMHO, -- to 5.5, skipped 6.0 because it was weird, and then WinWord 1.0 was so bizarre (mostly the mailmerge) that it almost drove me into the arms of the competition. (MS actually sent me a little certificate for being a Word for Windows early adopter, they knew how odd it was.) Newer versions are off-charter, but 2.0 was okay and I've been an MS-Word user ever since. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 16 03:13:25 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: References: <19980315221121.23658.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316031325.009ef880@pop3.webzone.net> At 11:38 PM 3/15/98 +0000, you wrote: >> IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before >> the 80's? > >Well, according to the Jargon File (aka The Hacker's Dictionary), IBM >minis and mainframes were not liked by hackers (who prefered DEC, etc), >not only because they were generally programmed in things like Cobol, but >also because technical info was next-to-impossible to obtain. It was >difficult to do neat things with them. > >I don't know if that counts as IBM bashing or not. > >-tony The IBM midrange and mainframe stuff I've worked on (S/36, AS/400, MVS, etc.) has always been _very_ proprietary. It's taken me three years just to learn the name of the IBM manual that describes the inwards of the file system on the System/36. Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of interest in collecting old IBM? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 16 03:24:04 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980315204805.00b4b2a0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316032404.008f2e50@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:48 PM 3/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Tim Shoppa wrote: >>I know some folks who work at Microsoft and everything they send me from >their >>"work" address is a several-hundred-line MS-Word document that is, of >>course, MIME-encoded. Typically I can decode it and dump the file to >>find the single line of real text that they thought they were sending me. > >For those few of us who might also check their Word documents in >binary, you'll find that Word also stores quite a bit of its undo >buffers in the saved document. Yes, no kidding. I've received >letters and contracts from people who didn't realize this. >By studying the binary, you can see their last few revisions. :-) >People often create a "new" letter by revising an old document. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum Most word processors these days will betray your secrets to the scrutiny of a binary browser. In addition to undo data, most formats will also retain chunks of old text left after deletion or overwrite. Windows is the detective's dream, with all kinds of interesting "ghost" data left behind in the ever more complex file and doc formats, and of course the swap file. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 16 03:34:59 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:43 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316033459.00809690@pop3.webzone.net> At 01:31 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I just finished watching that Discovery program on Robots and was >wondering if anyone involved in the list has previously/is currently >working in that field > >Also, does anyone know how much of an influence the use of computer >systems by all of those AI reasearches in the late 70's/early 80's had on >system designs? I'd be interested to hear any opinions/anecdotes/etc on >this stuff. > > > >Aaron I just caught the end of that special. I didn't realize that interest in AI had expired. Come to think of it, whatever happened to Prolog? I had always planned to pick up Borland's Prolog and learn it, but I guess it's too late for that now. Was there just no demand for AI, or has the market just taken the useful aspects and abandoned the remainder? Isn't the Neural Net technology being used in various pattern recognition applications (i.e. OCR) descended from the AI research of the the 70's and 80's? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 16 04:34:49 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980316033459.00809690@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: > Come to think of it, whatever happened to Prolog? I had always planned to > pick up Borland's Prolog and learn it, but I guess it's too late for that now. Why too late? I found it hard to do anything very useful in Prolog, but the idea of a "predicate calculus" engine is still very powerful. You probably write a small Prolog program every time you do a complex search in a search engine. I'm sure you can find a few public domain prologs on the net. > Was there just no demand for AI, or has the market just taken the useful > aspects and abandoned the remainder? Isn't the Neural Net technology being > used in various pattern recognition applications (i.e. OCR) descended from > the AI research of the the 70's and 80's? Exactly. All of the useful ideas from AI that became mainstream are no longer considered AI. Today, OCR, speach recognition, machine translation, and predictive analysis are off-the-shell apps or embedded in products like Microsoft Word to help catch your spelling and grammar errors. There are still interesting problems, though. Machines can kick your chess-playing butt, but you won't find one nearly coordinated enough to hit a baseball and run around a few bases. IMHO, AI researchers have overestimated the brainstuff and underestimated the sensor and actuator stuff. Here's my theory of how you learn to speak, for example: 1) When you're a little robot with a blank EPROM, you get bombarded with meaningless sights and sounds from the environment. 2) Quite by accident, you generate some random motor impulses that allow you to produce your own sounds. 3) Your richly cross-linked RAM network allows you to make associations between the sounds you hear and the motor activity used to produce them. When the associations get strong enough, your EPROM gets programmed (look for a book called Neural Darwinism for a good discussion of the biological mechanisms). Add a little non-linear feedback to get your nets from getting stuck in simple linear relationships.. 4) Eventually you can correlate sounds made by others with your own sounds (imitation), then you associate sounds your mom makes with visual input ("doggy"), and associating sounds and mouth movements with abstract ideas isn't far off.... Ob classicmp: Lisp Engines :-) -- Doug From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 16 04:59:28 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980316033459.00809690@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316045928.008c7220@pop3.webzone.net> At 04:34 AM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Exactly. All of the useful ideas from AI that became mainstream are no >longer considered AI. Today, OCR, speach recognition, machine >translation, and predictive analysis are off-the-shell apps or embedded in >products like Microsoft Word to help catch your spelling and grammar >errors. What was once the stuff of science fiction epics is now mundane? > >There are still interesting problems, though. Machines can kick your >chess-playing butt, but you won't find one nearly coordinated enough to >hit a baseball and run around a few bases. IMHO, AI researchers have >overestimated the brainstuff and underestimated the sensor and actuator >stuff. Here's my theory of how you learn to speak, for example: > I have always thought that digital computers would never allow us to achieve the ultimate goal of replicting a learning organism. Aren't we just simple conceptual pattern recognition machines? It seems like an analog computer, capable of integration of raw percepts and conceptualization at high speeds, could actually learn and become better and faster than man at thinking and working. If a computer could search a text file for a pattern using the same method as humans, i.e. looking for a shape as the first indicator of a match, rather than a discreet chacter pattern, it would be able to process text much faster than a digital machine. I think it was Ayn Rand's "Objectivist Epistemology" that got me thinking along these lines. > >-- Doug > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 16 06:14:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980316045928.008c7220@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, David Wollmann wrote: > I have always thought that digital computers would never allow us to > achieve the ultimate goal of replicting a learning organism. Aren't we just > simple conceptual pattern recognition machines? It seems like an analog > computer, capable of integration of raw percepts and conceptualization at > high speeds, could actually learn and become better and faster than man at > thinking and working. If a computer could search a text file for a pattern > using the same method as humans, i.e. looking for a shape as the first > indicator of a match, rather than a discreet chacter pattern, it would be > able to process text much faster than a digital machine. If you believe Turing, there's nothing an analog computer can compute that a digital one can't. A brain is many things: it's wet, it's analog, and it's massively parallel. I don't think anybody believes that it's wetness or analogness that matters, but clearly a high degree of parallel processing seems important to solving perception problems quickly. This is the basic inspiration that drove Danny Hillis to create the Connection Machine, with 64,000 simple processors working in parallel. But if you ignore the issue of speed, a single CPU should be able to simulate the parallel processing done by eye balls, the visual cortex, and whatever associative memory comes into play. The early AI folk thought they could do brainstuff using straight-forward algorithms. Maybe you can, but there's no biological analog that anybody can find to support the idea that humans work that way. So, the connectionists tried to create machines and structures modeled after the brain, but they didn't get too far. Let's say that you build an OS and a programming language that allows you to accurately model a brain. If you stick a human brain in front of a newspaper, you get nothing. So add some input devices and actuators. Now you stick a baby in front of a newspaper -- still nothing. So let the baby run for a while, experience a variety of sensations, make a whole bunch of associations, stick it in front of many newpapers and many non-newspapers for many years, and finally you get a pretty good character recognizer. We're still a long way from being able to put a multi-billion node connection machine onto a sturdy frame with millions of intricate wires, actuators, and sensors, let it experience and manipulate the environment for many years, and then get the thing to demonstrate emergent properties that make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. But I don't see any reason why it won't or can't happen. And if you think that the prospect of human cloning is causing moral pangs, wait until somebody creates the first artificial life form! Ob classiccmp: Perceptron. -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 16 06:19:20 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <005d01bd50d5$c008cbe0$33f438cb@nostromo> On this subject, I'm interested in where CYC fits in. Hasn't the cyc "baby" been running for a number of years? I really should look this up myself, shouldn't I? I will. Cheers A >So, the connectionists tried to create machines and structures modeled >after the brain, but they didn't get too far. Let's say that you build >an OS and a programming language that allows you to accurately model a >brain. If you stick a human brain in front of a newspaper, you get >nothing. So add some input devices and actuators. Now you stick a baby >in front of a newspaper -- still nothing. So let the baby run for a >while, experience a variety of sensations, make a whole bunch of >associations, stick it in front of many newpapers and many non-newspapers >for many years, and finally you get a pretty good character recognizer. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 09:40:01 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <19980316154001.23084.qmail@hotmail.com> What's wrong with COBOL? > >Well, according to the Jargon File (aka The Hacker's Dictionary), IBM >minis and mainframes were not liked by hackers (who prefered DEC, etc), >not only because they were generally programmed in things like Cobol, but >also because technical info was next-to-impossible to obtain. It was >difficult to do neat things with them. > >I don't know if that counts as IBM bashing or not. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From aaron at wfi-inc.com Mon Mar 16 11:44:46 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, David Wollmann wrote: > If you believe Turing, there's nothing an analog computer can compute that > a digital one can't. A brain is many things: it's wet, it's analog, and > it's massively parallel. I don't think anybody believes that it's wetness > or analogness that matters, but clearly a high degree of parallel There was one engineer on the program that *did* believe just that. He was making insects, 100% analog, and insisted that we could never emulate that which is analog (brain activity) in the digital realm. His focus is on creating a will-to-survive instinct in the machines, and then tricking them into working for us. He likened it to putting blinders on an ox to make it plow. > The early AI folk thought they could do brainstuff using straight-forward > algorithms. Maybe you can, but there's no biological analog that anybody > can find to support the idea that humans work that way. Who was it that mentioned Hofstadter's GEB the other day? He talks a lot about the rules of reasoning in there, illuminating the seeming paradox of writing a structured program that allows a machine to think freely. His explanation of the language/metalanguage/metametalanguage hierarchies makes one leap the chasm of the technology and just assume that it will happen. I have read that book three times and can still find new things in it. > So, the connectionists tried to create machines and structures modeled > after the brain, but they didn't get too far. Let's say that you build > an OS and a programming language that allows you to accurately model a > brain. If you stick a human brain in front of a newspaper, you get > nothing. So add some input devices and actuators. Now you stick a baby > in front of a newspaper -- still nothing. So let the baby run for a > while, experience a variety of sensations, make a whole bunch of > associations, stick it in front of many newpapers and many non-newspapers > for many years, and finally you get a pretty good character recognizer. Well, sure. That's the learning curve. But isn't that the idea of replicating a machine? That it could duplicate it's RAM/ROM contents as well? In the human world it would be like having direct access to a million years of evolutionary experience! What couldn't we do if we new everything that came before? What won't these machines be able to do? > We're still a long way from being able to put a multi-billion node > connection machine onto a sturdy frame with millions of intricate wires, > actuators, and sensors, let it experience and manipulate the environment > for many years, and then get the thing to demonstrate emergent properties > that make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. But I don't see > any reason why it won't or can't happen. I don't think we're that long off, in terms of evolutionary speed. If computer evolution is occuring, by some estimates, at 5-10 million times the speed of human evolution, we could expect a fully-evolved human replicant within our lifetime! The technology is coming around, with microelectronics and the promising prospect of nano-technology being fulfilled. > And if you think that the prospect of human cloning is causing moral > pangs, wait until somebody creates the first artificial life form! One of the things I really liked about the Discovery program is the quote about the state of technology, something to the effect of: "We are a lot closer to being able to create an artificial human than we are to being able to comprehend the consequences of creating an artificial human." I realise that this is not *directly* about +10 year old computer systems, but it does directly relate to the them and their role in the history of this field (which is what I originally asked the list about). Does anyone on the list want to take it outside to a temporary list to discuss the moral/ethical/probability issues of artificial life? Let me know by email and I'll set one up. Aaron From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 10:00:24 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <19980316160024.16561.qmail@hotmail.com> >>Early MS products were extremely good quality software, >>particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely >>bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but >>highlight MS Decathlon). What is Decathlon? Is there a list of all these products somewhere? >I have a copy of Microsoft Word for DOS 4.0; looks a lot like >Multiplan. (A pity!) I prefer the Word interface to Word Perfect. Less memorizing of strange function keys >Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net >Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 16 10:02:44 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Mar 16, 98 01:31:27 am Message-ID: <9803161602.AA18960@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1805 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/af8c587f/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 11:10:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <19980316171055.20493.qmail@hotmail.com> > >Actually, very little. Most of the AI researchers in the 70's/early 80's >were working on one of the following: > >1. PDP-10's running a very advanced operating system such as TOPS-20, What do you mean by "advanced"? >2. Things such as the Symbolics LISP machine, specifically designed for > AI research and with all sorts of spiffy hardware features that make > it automatic to do some really nice things (such as actual machine-level > "objects" that aren't just locations in memory but are real data types. I HATE object oriented stuff. Hate it, hate it, hate it. At least in C++, Java, and Visual Basic, which have been my only expoures to it. >Unfortunately, now if you go to a CS department it's rare to see people >using anything other than generic Unix boxes. This is a crying shame, as >Unix was a pretty poor choice of OS's in 1972 (when it was started) and >on today's big computers it's a much, much poorer choice compared to >all the OS's developed by advanced research groups in the 70's and 80's. Well, would any "advanced" OS like TOPS be suitable for modern machines? Anyone want to be the second Linus Torvalds? > >To get a feel of what life was like in a AI lab, you ought to read one >(or both) of the following: > >_The Hacker's Dictionary_, compiled by Eric S. Raymond. (Yes, it is mainly >just the jargon file, but there's also essays by Raymond and others which >nicely illustrate the AI researcher's "state of mind" in the book.) > >_The UNIX-Hater's Handbook_, discusses many OS's developed in the 70's >and 80's which are far superior to Unix, but never caught on because they >weren't "lowest-common-denominator" OS's. Ironic that now it's the other way around -- we're pushing UNIX-like stuff like Linux, BeOS and Rhapsody, against DOS, Windows, NT, and MacOS ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 16 11:26:34 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again References: <9803161602.AA18960@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <350D60CA.78F5AE85@crl.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > Unfortunately, now if you go to a CS department it's rare to see people > using anything other than generic Unix boxes. This is a crying shame, as > Unix was a pretty poor choice of OS's in 1972 (when it was started) and > on today's big computers it's a much, much poorer choice compared to > all the OS's developed by advanced research groups in the 70's and 80's. Yeah, but I think the motivation is that these projects come and go, the direction (even objectives) of AI research fluctuates, but the computer system has to stay and adapt--it's as if Unix itself has evolved into the fittest beast in the jungle, maybe not the strongest or smartest, just a capable survivor ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 16 11:32:21 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <19980316171055.20493.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13340175445.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Hmm... TOPS/PC...] Hmm... Port TOPS to the PC/Alpha/Etc... Kinda above me, but if someone did an ITS or TOPS port to the PC or VAX, I'd run it as soon as I could get it installed! ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 16 11:39:19 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <13340175445.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 16, 98 09:32:21 am Message-ID: <9803161739.AA19441@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 705 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/ec1186cf/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Mar 16 11:45:01 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401A4A605@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may call it a steaming pile of horseshit as well. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Lane [SMTP:kyrrin@jps.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 1998 8:36 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... > > First, Tim Shoppa noted... > > >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, > >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and > >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. > > Then Kip Crosby added... > > >That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML > >part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between > the > >two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important > >fraction of the traffic. > > > > The more I hear about Billy-boy, and the more I see of his company's > "products" and arrogant attitudes, the less I like either one! Is there no > amount of bandwidth waste or code-bloat that Micro$quat won't stoop to?! > > I knew there was a reason I'd started to get into Unix boxes. > Thanks, guys! > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our > own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 10:56:50 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6bE1MEASnVD1EwCn@formula1.demon.co.uk> In article , Doug Yowza writes >If you believe Turing, there's nothing an analog computer can compute that >a digital one can't. A brain is many things: it's wet, it's analog, and >it's massively parallel. I don't think anybody believes that it's wetness >or analogness that matters, but clearly a high degree of parallel >processing seems important to solving perception problems quickly. This >is the basic inspiration that drove Danny Hillis to create the Connection >Machine, with 64,000 simple processors working in parallel. Perhaps incredibly, Turing _did_ believe that there was something special about the brain (in particular he could/would not rule out ESP) and so I don't think he would ever have claimed that a Turing Machine could do anything that a human brain could. The TM was designed to solve a specific problem in mathematical theory, rather than as a theoretical ultimate brain. But now you've got me trying to think of something that an analog(ue) computer can do that a digital one can't. Reversibility might be one thing. I guess it's reasonable to argue that digital computers are a subset of analogue computers, as transistors are analogue. I'm going to stop thinking about this before I recurse. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 16 12:48:32 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <012701bd510c$1ef12720$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >MS bashing in a MODERN context is off-topic, yes, but saying how >BASIC for the Altair was bloated certainly is the best of both worlds >IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before >the 80's? a 4KB paper tape Basic for the Altair was bloated? Compared to what, the 2KB Tiny Basic Dr. Dobbs was pushing? At least you got paper tape for the Altair, the Dr. Dobbs version you had to type in from very small print in the magazine. And most important, Bill's 4K Basic worked, did anyone ever get the IMSAI paper tape Basic to work? (We gave up and threw ours away after several futile tries) IBM bashing before PCs? As an old Univac/CDC type I can swear (with fingers crossed behind back) we never said a single bad word about OS/360 or the blazing speed of a 360/20, and we always envied the S/3ers their MFCU and the cute little 96 col. cards. Jack Peacock From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 16 13:41:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <6bE1MEASnVD1EwCn@formula1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > But now you've got me trying to think of something that an analog(ue) > computer can do that a digital one can't. Reversibility might be one > thing. I guess it's reasonable to argue that digital computers are a > subset of analogue computers, as transistors are analogue. To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much faster with analog vs. digital, but I'd have to guess that these are implementation issues that get lost in the noise. It's understandable that Turing (or anybody else) would have to say "and then a miracle happens" in any discussion of machine intelligence. Emulation of human intelligence is so very far off -- we're simply not smart enough to create it from scratch. If we ever get to the point where we can emulate, say, bee or ant intelligence/behavior pretty well in my lifetime, I'd be absolutely astounded -- there's still *that* much to do. -- Doug From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Mon Mar 16 13:48:17 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803161948.TAA05835@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-14 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send :from it. there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one :does it. i'm staying far away from IE4 myself! make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere obscure in the settings. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 12:48:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Getting bent (ON topic if not thread) In-Reply-To: <351191f9.5789589@mail.swbell.net> from "Barry Peterson" at Mar 16, 98 02:54:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/028cd606/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 16 14:52:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? References: <199803161948.TAA05835@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <350D911F.2EFA310@bbtel.com> lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > On 1998-03-14 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk > :I'm almost certain that IE4/outlook express HTMLizes email you send > :from it. there is a way to turn it off, but i dont remember how one > :does it. i'm staying far away from IE4 myself! Amen to the stay away comment. > make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere > obscure in the settings. Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person individually instead of as a whole.-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmpete at swbell.net Mon Mar 16 14:50:04 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <350CBBED.7ABB1F67@cnct.com> References: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> <3516a7a2.11334597@mail.swbell.net> <350CBBED.7ABB1F67@cnct.com> Message-ID: <35108fc1.2378472@mail.swbell.net> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:43:09 -0500, you said: >Matters of taste. I always liked MultiPlan on everything from the >TRS-80 Model II (and 4) to the Unix version. Never had a problem >with the user interface, which I prefer to the slash menus used by >VisiCalc, SuperCalc, Lotus etc. But putting that same interface on >Word for DOS made that my least favorite word processor to that >point, and I've known some bad ones over the years. I _still_ >prefer MultiPlan to the monster that Redmond replaced it with. I use Multiplan on the TI-99, I use Quattro Pro on my PC's. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 14:58:25 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <19980316205825.19144.qmail@hotmail.com> >>If you believe Turing, there's nothing an analog computer can comput >>a digital one can't. A brain is many things: it's wet, it's analog, >>it's massively parallel. I don't think anybody believes that it's w >>or analogness that matters, but clearly a high degree of parallel >>processing seems important to solving perception problems quickly. This >>is the basic inspiration that drove Danny Hillis to create the Conne >>Machine, with 64,000 simple processors working in parallel. >Perhaps incredibly, Turing _did_ believe that there was something >special about the brain (in particular he could/would not rule out ES >and so I don't think he would ever have claimed that a Turing Machine >could do anything that a human brain could. The TM was designed to >solve a specific problem in mathematical theory, rather than as a >theoretical ultimate brain. > >But now you've got me trying to think of something that an analog(ue) >computer can do that a digital one can't. Reversibility might be one >thing. I guess it's reasonable to argue that digital computers are a >subset of analogue computers, as transistors are analogue. > >I'm going to stop thinking about this before I recurse. a)If you think about it, a neuron in the brain is very much like an AND gate or a transistor. It has multiple inputs and needs a certain amount of electricty across them for its single output to go high. b)I heard that people are working on computers with transistors so small, they would be affected by quantum laws, and thus be analog ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From bmpete at swbell.net Mon Mar 16 15:00:09 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <19980316160024.16561.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980316160024.16561.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <351190e4.2668915@mail.swbell.net> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:00:24 PST, you said: >I prefer the Word interface to Word Perfect. Less memorizing of strange >function keys I have a friend who detests WP and loves Wordstar. I pinned him down one day; he worked with Wordstar and had pirated WP. (He'd never seen an overlay.) My opinion; whatever you use becomes familiar and easy-to-remember. I prefer WP's F3-F3 approach to Word/Wordstar's confiscation of screen space and can never remember the control-key sequences. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From Thomas_Kleinschmidt-QA2046 at email.mot.com Mon Mar 16 14:31:52 1998 From: Thomas_Kleinschmidt-QA2046 at email.mot.com (Thomas Kleinschmidt-QA2046) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR-33 questions References: <3.0.1.32.19980315223645.00b6ae40@pc> Message-ID: <350D8C39.21E83D40@email.mot.com> John: I have original manual sets for $20. Tom jfoust@threedee.com%INTERNET wrote: > > After long hoping to get one someday, this weekend I found an > Teletype ASR-33 in a dumpster at the UW-Madison surplus center. > > It appears to be working in most respects. In local mode, I was able > to type characters although the ribbon was a bit dry. However, when > it reached the right margin, it would not "return". Line feed works. > > The geared belt is tight, and pressing additional characters strains > it and sometimes makes it "chunk" as if it were trying to jump a tooth. > I tinkered with the L-shaped catch on the belt that appears to engage > a lever when the carriage reaches the right side. Right now, this > L-catch is to the left of the lever, which gives me the impression > that it didn't catch the way it was supposed to, and now the machine > is stuck in a position that I need to learn how to free. Any ideas? > > The data cable has nine wires to an HP-labelled edge-card connector. > Is this 20 ma current loop? I thought that was just four wires. > > How difficult is it to get a service manual for one of these? > Is there a date-code some where on it? Will it read a five-level > Baudot paper tape as well as seven-bit, assuming I can translate > Baudot to ASCII? > > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum > > ---- > Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 16 15:09:14 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Re: Robots again" (Mar 16, 9:10) References: <19980316171055.20493.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9803162109.ZM16991@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 16, 9:10, Max Eskin wrote: > >2. Things such as the Symbolics LISP machine, specifically designed for > > AI research and with all sorts of spiffy hardware features that make > > it automatic to do some really nice things (such as actual machine-level > > "objects" that aren't just locations in memory but are real data types. > I HATE object oriented stuff. Hate it, hate it, hate it. At least in > C++, Java, and Visual Basic, which have been my only expoures to it. I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for three years. Ada 95 has a lot of OO features (though you needn't use it that way). It is my most unfavourite language. Some of us have described Ada as a read-only language (cf. C as a write-only language). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 16 15:25:48 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <006201bd5122$18272b40$36f438cb@nostromo> >> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere >> obscure in the settings. > >Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a person could >specify what type messages (easily) to each person individually instead of >as a whole.-- You CAN. The IE bashing is ill-informed. It's a great product. However, in specific response to the above, you simply select that mail is responded to in the format it was sent. Quite simple and obvious. A From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 16 15:53:28 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <9803161739.AA19441@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 16, 98 09:39:19 am Message-ID: <199803162153.QAA32055@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Tim Shoppa once stated: > > > [Hmm... TOPS/PC...] > > > > Hmm... Port TOPS to the PC/Alpha/Etc... > > Kinda above me, but if someone did an ITS or TOPS port to the PC or VAX, > > I'd run it as soon as I could get it installed! > > It wouldn't be easy. Unix is available on so many different systems > because it's a "lowest-common-denominator" OS, and requires very little > hardware support. Porting a OS like TOPS, ITS, or VMS is much harder > because most hardware simply doesn't have the requisite features to implement > things which are basic to the OS. > > VMS has been ported to the Alpha, but it needed PALcode support to ensure > that things like queue element insertions/removals could be done without > interruption. Well, that's because on the VAX (to bring classic computers into this) had an ENQUEUE and DEQUEUE (I think those are the mnemonics) instructions which handled double linked lists (of which queues and stacks can be built out of). Why the need for PALcode to do that on the Alpha is a bit odd - all you really need is an instruction that does an atomic "test and set" to ensure atomicity (hmmm, it could be that instruction they added, although it seems strange because DEC Unix supports multiple CPUs and you NEED that for multiple CPUs). I must admit that some of the features of old OSes (like VMS, TOPS-x0 and ITS) are neat and it's a shame that it's taken some 30 years for some of them to make a comeback. -spc (IMHO - the two worst things to happen to this industry are Unix and Microsoft. Both promote the lowest common demoninator oddly enough) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 16:21:08 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <19980316222108.9897.qmail@hotmail.com> Very interesting. Please elaborate. My reasons for disliking OOP stems from the fact that a Windows app in C++ is much harder to understand than one in plain non-oop code. Who started oop anyway? >I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for three years. > Ada 95 has a lot of OO features (though you needn't use it that way). It is >my most unfavourite language. Some of us have described Ada as a read-only >language (cf. C as a write-only language). > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 16:24:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: PM2400SA Message-ID: <19980316222419.21607.qmail@hotmail.com> A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external. It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz Mon Mar 16 16:12:43 1998 From: K.J.Whitehead at massey.ac.nz (Keith Whitehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: URGENT..please read In-Reply-To: <199803161948.TAA05835@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: In the last few weeks I have particularly noted the amount of absolute dribble in this email list. I am interested in the maintainence/restoration/use of OLD computers and I don't give a fat rats rectum about miscrosoft bloatware,raw HTML, and all of the other total off topic crap that has been going on. If you want to bleather on like a bunch of school girls do so in the news groups or on IRC where you may find someone who actually cares about the topic you are going on about. All you have managed to do is reduce this once useful email list to a noise channnel and I now find the news groups more ON topic with less mindless chatter. The downside of what will happen is those who ARE serious about the old hardware will leave and form a new mail list and you all will be the eventual loosers as the people with REAL knowledge wont be here. No I am not the list Mom but I don't have time to read 50 messages of toatal crap each day. My next step is to place filters on this group to filter out the noise MAKERS, so if you then want usefull info I wont be able to help because I wont see your messages. So STAY ON TOPIC...THE RESTORATION, REAPIR AND USE OF OLD COMPUTERS. Cheers Keith Whitehead From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 16 16:40:23 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: PM2400SA Message-ID: <02ba01bd512c$823dc8e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was >supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external. >It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier >on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is? > I think that's a 2400 baud async modem (I had one, sounds like the same model). If it doesn''t connect, maybe whatever you are calling doesn't support 2400 anymore, or it's looking for an error correcting protocol. Make sure you are on factory default (AT&F if memory serves me right). Jack Peacock From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 16 16:41:11 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: PM2400SA References: <19980316222419.21607.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <350DAA87.26734AD7@crl.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was > supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external. > It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier > on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is? It is a modem, a standard Hayes compatible box. I've had almost no trouble with these over the years. It's nvram has probably been programmed with some odd setting. Try resetting to factory values by sending AT&F and see if it works better. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 16:39:22 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: URGENT..please read In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So STAY ON TOPIC...THE > RESTORATION, REAPIR AND USE OF OLD COMPUTERS. Exactly. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 16:44:24 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <012701bd510c$1ef12720$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: > IBM bashing before PCs? As an old Univac/CDC type I can swear > (with fingers crossed behind back) we never said a single bad > word about OS/360 or the blazing speed of a 360/20, and we > always envied the S/3ers their MFCU and the cute little 96 col. > cards. Oh, CDC...Computer Dinosaur Corporation... Sorry. I still want a Cyber, however (any other 180s being decommissioned lately?). Seriously, IBM was _THE_ bad guy in the computer world for many years prior to the PC. It took both the greater dislike of Microsoft and the release of the RS/6000 to turn the heads of many hackers. William Donzelli william@ans.net From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Mar 16 16:47:46 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft&Windows Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980316174746.00688fb8@mail.wincom.net> At the risk of getting incinerated, I would like to put in my two bits on the great MS debate. You fellows tend to resemble a lot of Grand Prix drivers running down Fords and Chevvies. What it comes right down to is that there are a whole bunch of people who are doing useful things with computers who would not be if they had to depend on the equipment and software that was available before PC's, Mac's, MS-Dos and Windows. I saw the same thing with the introduction of self threading 16mm projectors about twenty five years ago. The National Film Board of Canada banned them because they chewed up film, but they made it possible for thousands of teachers to use film in their classes. Someday possibly we can run our modern computers with an operating system that comes on one single sided floppy, but until then lets appreciate what we have. Cheers Charlie Fox From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 16 11:55:41 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: References: <012701bd510c$1ef12720$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <199803162248.RAA23374@mail.cgocable.net> > Oh, CDC...Computer Dinosaur Corporation... CDC? ;) CDC did produced good HDD's in olden days... Jason D. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From scott at saskatoon.com Mon Mar 16 16:56:43 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <199803151616.LAA24014@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: > > Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on as it > > Try running Netscape on Xenix-86. or Linux viewed on a VT220. (Sorry, no netscape for terminals in the foreseen future.) (Getting a bit off-topic... but I'll add my vote for no HTML in this list.) ttfn srw From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 16 17:05:12 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: URGENT..please read Message-ID: <02d001bd512f$f96a2dc0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >> So STAY ON TOPIC...THE >> RESTORATION, REAPIR AND USE OF OLD COMPUTERS. Unless that HTML is running on a Z80 or an F8 I'm not interested either. On topic....someone once did an S-100 memory board for Seeq 52B13 EEPROMs (2Kx8, 5v only, 6116 pinout), I think it was a 16KB board, made in the early 1980s. Does anyone have any info on this board, I don't remember the manufacturer. I have two hundred 52B13s I just found in the junk closet, thought it would be neat to have a solid state disk on the old IMSAI. These are not flash parts, each byte can be individually programmed and erased. Jack Peacock From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 17:01:39 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980316031325.009ef880@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: > The IBM midrange and mainframe stuff I've worked on (S/36, AS/400, MVS, > etc.) has always been _very_ proprietary. It's taken me three years just to > learn the name of the IBM manual that describes the inwards of the file > system on the System/36. > > Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of > interest in collecting old IBM? Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS departments. And the weird parts. But wait... Their is documentation for the older systems out there - it just needs to be discovered or released. I think that RCS/RIs S/34 has a full set, including useful things like scope diagrams and schematics. The only thing that is a real problem is that you really can not copy and redistribute the information - it is still IBMs. It only takes one discovered copy to get the information potentially out, but that last bit is no fun. I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk. They really are not. I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of *IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis, have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line (even Small-C) would be great. As for weird parts...well, they are still weird parts. Because of them, I try to purchase any non-PC board that has IBM chips that I see. I do think that one could piggyback a small SMT board on top of the older SLTs without a problem. Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem (while I gaze at the photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation). William Donzelli william@ans.net From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 16 17:25:12 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft&Windows References: <3.0.2.32.19980316174746.00688fb8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <350DB4D8.70B972BB@crl.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > > At the risk of getting incinerated, I would like to put in my two bits on > the great MS debate. > You fellows tend to resemble a lot of Grand Prix drivers running down > Fords and Chevvies. That's being generous. I think the big thread last night was not being able to run X/Apps because of the limitation of text-only video ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 17:28:07 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <199803162248.RAA23374@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > CDC? ;) CDC did produced good HDD's in olden days... They made good computers for a while as well. They really were great machines in the 1960s, but thru the 1970s, their mainframes lagged far behind, and management did nothing to help it. They made a very good try in the early 1980s with the ETA supercomputers and Cyber 180s, but by then, most people had written them off. In the end, it was just rebadged SGIs called Cyber 190s... William Donzelli william@ans.net From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Mar 16 17:37:07 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <199803162153.QAA32055@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 16, 98 04:53:28 pm Message-ID: <199803162337.SAA03690@shell.monmouth.com> Captan Napalm (spc) said > > It was thus said that the Great Tim Shoppa once stated: > > > > > [Hmm... TOPS/PC...] > > > > > > Hmm... Port TOPS to the PC/Alpha/Etc... > > > Kinda above me, but if someone did an ITS or TOPS port to the PC or VAX, > > > I'd run it as soon as I could get it installed! I'd love TOPS20/PC or TOPS10/PC or FreeVMS (if it ever gets built). > > > > It wouldn't be easy. Unix is available on so many different systems > > because it's a "lowest-common-denominator" OS, and requires very little > > hardware support. Porting a OS like TOPS, ITS, or VMS is much harder > > because most hardware simply doesn't have the requisite features to > > implement things which are basic to the OS. > > I must admit that some of the features of old OSes (like VMS, TOPS-x0 and > ITS) are neat and it's a shame that it's taken some 30 years for some of > them to make a comeback. > > -spc (IMHO - the two worst things to happen to this industry are > Unix and Microsoft. Both promote the lowest common demoninator > oddly enough) > As an Ex-DECcie VMS/RSTS/RSX/IAS/RT11 fan with no axe to grind with Unix, it's funny seeing Unix and Microsoft being tagged as the lowest common denominator. Unix is a kind of minimum OS which could run multiple processes and multiple users on systems which wouldn't be able to hardware support a Tops20 or Vax/VMS. I didn't like Unix because of a lot of things. Minimal command help compared with VMS or Tops, bad editors (vi was the BEST choice) compared with EDT, Eve, TPU... A cryptic, non-English command processor. Bad error handling of hardware failures or problems (PANIC:sys spit on floor). Bad errorlogging, lousy (AT&T Unix) background/foreground detaching, fragile linked list (AT&T Unix) filesystems. (I now make my living with both Unix (SunOS,Solaris2,AIX and Win95/NT) doing system and network admin...) I see Microsoft as worse than the current commercial Unix crop. No documentation without buying Resource Kits... Unknown hidden releases which slipstream patches. Limited regression testing. No real error handling (I know the hardware ecc registers aren't there -- but DOS does 10 retries without telling you the sector's going bad and then it gives the General Failure msg.). The C philosophy (which came from Unix) seems to basically support the minimalist theory of code building -- where there are no system services and most functionality better be in the application. Unix sure looks a lot better now. I would've figured that better OS's would get released -- but commodity hardware and software pushed out the proprietary stuff that had good hardware error handling and support. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 13:37:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: ASR-33 questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980315223645.00b6ae40@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 15, 98 10:36:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 6838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/93195b04/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 16:47:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 16, 98 05:44:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/66db9480/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Mar 16 18:11:26 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 16, 98 10:47:47 pm Message-ID: <9803170011.AA20649@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 397 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/83c12ae4/attachment.ksh From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 16 18:07:58 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980316031325.009ef880@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316180758.009eb450@pop3.webzone.net> At 06:01 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: [snip] >> Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of >> interest in collecting old IBM? > >Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people >hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS >departments. And the weird parts. > >But wait... > [snip] > >I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk. >They really are not. Amen. You just need manuals, lots and lots of them. >I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of >*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read >revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of >inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis, >have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of >decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line >(even Small-C) would be great. I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business rules at IBM. >Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem (while I gaze at the >photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation). I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even think about it. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 13:43:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Old IBM's... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980316031325.009ef880@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 16, 98 03:13:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/dbb8ebe1/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon Mar 16 19:44:50 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Old IBM's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ditto! But I have more to say below. > > Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of > > interest in collecting old IBM? > In my case, it's not the dearth of technical information that makes me not collect old IBMs; it's the over-abundance in my area of old IBMs to collect. There's no CHALLENGE in it! I could fill my entire house with just the equipment I get offered on a monthly basis! I do have a few of the original PC, XT and AT with various hard to find options...which I acquired entirely against my will as a prerequisite to acquiring some S100 hardware I really DID want. As for mainframe type gear...I simply have no affection for it whatsoever! I did my first for-pay programming on PDPs, did my initial hacking on Commodores, Apples and CP/M machines, moved later into Vaxen and started getting into the more...er...esoteric machines like S100 boxes and older PDP hardware when I had enough technical experience to have a clue what I was doing. IBM mainframes simply represent no emotions for me of any kind so I don't collect them. > I don't just collect classics to look nice on the shelf/floor. I enjoy > understanding how they work, how they relate (technically) to other > machines, etc. And I enjoy repairing them to component level. With no > chance of getting schematics or low-level software info, and with a > machine packed full of custom chips that I haven't a hope of finding, > these tasks are going to be impossible. > I DON'T enjoy repairing things without schematics! And I'm still fairly new to component level repair. But now that I've started doing it, despite the challenge it represents (or because of it), I've really been enjoying myself. [BTW, the problem with the SWTPC was NOT the 7474 oddly enough! I was heart-broken...oh well at least that chip is now socketed nicely. But, with the schematics etc, I now will be going MUCH deeper into the machine to figure out what its problem is and I'm believing in myself enough to do so.] > With my PDP11/45 (for example), I have the printset (schematics, > microcode flowcharts, binary dumps of all the roms), the maintenance > manual (including a cycle-by-cycle description of the microcode), the > user manual (how to program it in machine code) and the bus handbook > (what the Unibus is supposed to do). And that's just for the processor... That's how it is with the PDP-8i's. I've got everything for them...spare parts, manuals, printsets, paper tape, 3 machines to build 2 working machines out of...etc etc etc blah blah blah...so I'm looking forward GREATLY to getting them up and running again. And, of course, the stories of PDP-8s being kicked down stairs and still working gives me hope in general! =-) I can't think of a good analogy but collecting IBM gear just feels to me a bit like collecting aircraft without a pilot's license. They're neat but too hard to get off the ground unless you have the proper background. Whereas PDP's are at least minimally similar (S100 boxes as well) to what you EXPECT a computer to act like compared to what you read in books or may have experienced with more modern machines. They're like collecting cars...which EVERYONE has had at least SOME experience riding in or operating. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: Not that I don't respect those who do collect IBM hardware. It is kind of neat but feels generally alien and bizarre. Which only makes me respect more those who collect it. From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 16 18:47:19 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Re.: HD jumper settings Message-ID: <006601bd513f$78ce08c0$31befea9@office1> Thanks Don/David. Maxtor must have posted those settings after I looked about 2 months ago. All that they had at the time was the geometry information. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 16 18:52:12 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Update on Sun3 and shoebox Message-ID: <006701bd513f$7995eca0$31befea9@office1> On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:56:58 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: {big snip about b st(0,4,0)} I did try setting the tape to both ID=4 and ID=6, both with the same results. And, no, when I created the install tape, I did not use the "osync" parameter. More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From bwit at pobox.com Mon Mar 16 19:11:59 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:44 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <01BD5110.632F1B00@ppp-151-164-52-14.rcsntx.swbell.net> ---------- From: Max Eskin[SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 16, 1998 9:40 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again... >What's wrong with COBOL? The OBOL part. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 16 19:43:51 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! (now I would like a...) Message-ID: <199803170143.AA16258@world.std.com> Have anybody some Sord M5 related files ? ( manuals etc.). I have all this in paper version and electronic kind of this is practical. I need Sord m5 FD drive files- floppy disk with system utilities and docs about this all. Donor of this things will be first where I send SW emulator of this comp. for PC. Thank you ... -- S pozdravem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jiri Cechmeister - TOPCAD, Electronic and Software Development Demlova 4, 58601 JIHLAVA, CZ, phone /fax : +420 66 31051 http://www.topcad.anet.cz , e-mail: cechy@jitel.cz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Mar 16 19:53:12 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Bay Area Computer History Perspectives Message-ID: <199803170153.RAA32218@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980316/7f2101fe/attachment.ksh From rector at usa.net Mon Mar 16 19:47:01 1998 From: rector at usa.net (Dan Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... References: Message-ID: <350DD615.7937@usa.net> William Donzelli wrote: > > > CDC? ;) CDC did produced good HDD's in olden days... > > They made good computers for a while as well. They really were great > machines in the 1960s, but thru the 1970s, their mainframes lagged far > behind, and management did nothing to help it. They made a very good try > in the early 1980s with the ETA supercomputers and Cyber 180s, but by > then, most people had written them off. In the end, it was just rebadged > SGIs called Cyber 190s... > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net This reminds me of a series of articles I ran accross in the Computer Shopper. It's John Dvorak's "What Ever Happened To..." column. Over the past several months he's been doing a series on the seven dwarves. The articles can be found online at http://www.zdnet.com/cshopper/ -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 16 19:55:08 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Bay Area Computer History Perspectives In-Reply-To: <199803170153.RAA32218@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > On a related note, I've been thinking that it could be interesting for > all of us Bay Area Classic Computists to get together some weekend and > organise a trip to the Computer Museum History Center at Moffet Field, > in Mountain View. I've been there several times over the past year, > but not recently, and it would seem to be an ideal place to get together. > Anyone interested? :) Yes! I was going to bring this up myself. Their web page says tours are available on Wednesday from noon to 4pm, which doesn't seem like great time. Do you know if they can arrange group access on a weekend? Thanks, Doug From jmg at iac.net Mon Mar 16 20:58:35 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Update on Sun3 and shoebox In-Reply-To: <006701bd513f$7995eca0$31befea9@office1> (rcini@email.msn.com) Message-ID: <199803170258.VAA18824@mail.iac.net> OK. Check through the Sun3-port archives at: ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/mailing-lists/port-sun3/port-sun3.0148 Kevin McQuiggin posted a question a week ago or so where he asked pretty much the same thing. "Gordon W. Ross" , one of the port-sun3 maintainers, responded a few messages afterward with maybe a solution to your problem. Here is edited text to cut to the chase (BTW: I don't know these people, I just remember noticing the messages and then checked the archive): ------ Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 18:18:02 -0800 To: port-sun3@NetBSD.ORG From: Kevin McQuiggin Subject: NetBSD/Sun3: Install Problem: MT02 Controller Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: port-sun3-owner@NetBSD.ORG Precedence: list Delivered-To: port-sun3@NetBSD.ORG Hi: I'm having a bit of a problem installing the Sun 3 distribution from tape. My 3/60 has an MT02 tape controller and an Archive QIC-02 60 MB tape drive. On booting from tape (>b st(0,8,0), where LUN of the MT02 is set to 1), the tape drive is located by the ramdisk kernel as "st2" rather than "st0". The ramdisk kernel needs to have the tape drive at "st0" to install the miniroot. I cannot get to st2 from the booted kernel ("device not configured" on mt -f /dev/nrst2 rewind). I have located the MT02 docs, this tells me how to change the SCSI ID of the controller, but not the device ID of the tape drive. How do I set the tape drive to "st0" from "st2"? I can locate no docs on the drive itself. There are a couple of jumpers on it but without docs I'm in the dark! --------- Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:32:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199803082032.PAA04385@bach.mc.com> From: "Gordon W. Ross" To: mcquiggi@sfu.ca CC: port-sun3@NetBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980307181802.030429c0@ferrari.sfu.ca> (message from Kevin McQuiggin on Sat, 07 Mar 1998 18:18:02 -0800) Subject: Re: NetBSD/Sun3: Install Problem: MT02 Controller Sender: port-sun3-owner@NetBSD.ORG Precedence: list Delivered-To: port-sun3@NetBSD.ORG The Sun PROM expects the tape drives to have: st0: target 4, LUN 0 st1: target 5, LUN 0 (At least, if I recall correctly:) Try setting the SCSI target ID = 4. The MT02 board has an 8 position switch block near J1. Here is the description from the F.E. handbook: SW Factory Description 1 Off Target ID bit zero 2 Off Target ID bit one 3 On Target ID bit two (ID=4) 4 Off Not used 5 On drive type 6 (*) drive type: (* Archive: Off, Wangtek: On) 7 Off drive type 8 Off SCSI bus parity check From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 16 20:59:49 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <01BD5110.632F1B00@ppp-151-164-52-14.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: >>What's wrong with COBOL? > >The OBOL part. Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Mon Mar 16 21:12:53 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: References: <01BD5110.632F1B00@ppp-151-164-52-14.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: >Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) What exactly is SNOBOL? The library here has two books on it, I have looked at both and couldn't really figure much out. --------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | OrHam@qth.net list admin Call sign coming soon! | --------------------------------------------------------------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 16 21:13:12 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Superbrain Schematics available Message-ID: <009301bd5152$a0ab7040$5af438cb@nostromo> I've just been offered a "1 foot by 2 foot" manual schematic and technical repair manual set for the Superbrain computer. The guy imported it from Intertcech, he said. On its way to me now, I'm just letting people on the list know of its availability. Cheers A From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 16 21:21:38 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: mac drive available Message-ID: <87afe771.350dec44@aol.com> Ive got an aftermarket mac external 800k drive if anyone wants it. it wont read a disk even after cleaning. its about the same size but a bit heavier than the 400k mac drive. otherwise it's gonna get round filed. david From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 20:09:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <9803170011.AA20649@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 16, 98 04:11:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1129 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/6490c33b/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 16 21:28:52 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: tandata td-1600 Message-ID: <00ac01bd5154$d13731c0$5af438cb@nostromo> I've just received notice of a system.... "have you heard of a Tandata Td-1600? It was one of those Telecom computers I believe. It has a Z1 chip in it (whatever that may be) which I know is not a Z-80 but may be of interest to you just the same. It has a PS and all the right lights seem to be working. RF and RGB monitor outputs." I have no idea what this thing is. Have any of the readers of this list any more information? Cheers A From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 20:00:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Old IBM's... In-Reply-To: from "Wirehead Prime" at Mar 16, 98 07:44:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/8d213257/attachment.ksh From aaron at wfi-inc.com Mon Mar 16 23:41:43 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 up on Ebay Message-ID: Hi all, If anyone's interested, I put a great 3/50 up on Ebay today. I ran out of room for it (19" mono monitor). No disk, since I was using it as an X terminal, 12M ram upgrade,flat-top (not the dimple monitor-mount style). If you want, I'll give you a dimple top model with bad video in the package. I forgot to get the item number and all that, but there can't be too many 3/50's up for auction right now, eh? Regards, Aaron From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon Mar 16 21:50:58 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803170350.WAA09346@webern.cs.unc.edu> Given that a fair number of us are probably reading this on dumb terminals, HTML and MIME are as out-of-place as binaries. It strikes me that the mail/HTML thing indicates something about attitudes, and I'm genuinely surprised that anyone on this list would push for HTML in e-mail. The wintel PC world thrives on style over substance; glitz rather than content. It sells to the mass market that doesn't know any better and never will. If you have nothing to say, you better say it loudly or no-one will listen. The spirit of so many of these old machines was the delicate balance between expressiveness and resource usage. As admirers of that, shouldn't we, of all people, prefer plain text whenever it suffices? Put only plain text in my mailbox, please. I'll be quite happy to visit your pictures and HTML on the web. (URL's _are_ plain text!) Bill. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon Mar 16 21:53:22 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: NS 57109? Message-ID: <199803170353.WAA09355@webern.cs.unc.edu> Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"? I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or replacement chips in case this one dies. advTHANKSance, Bill. From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 22:17:15 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980316180758.009eb450@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: > I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and > mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the > philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out > of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was > supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business > rules at IBM. That is IBMs bread and butter. Anyway, the stories of S/36s being up for YEARS without crashing or failing are true. > I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to > run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out > of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even > think about it. I need to make a serious effort to get 240 VAC service at RCS/RI so we can play with our IBMs (5340 and 5360). Those and the Intergraph VAX 8550. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Mon Mar 16 22:22:46 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Old IBM's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In my case, it's not the dearth of technical information that makes me > not collect old IBMs; it's the over-abundance in my area of old IBMs to > collect. There's no CHALLENGE in it! I could fill my entire house with > just the equipment I get offered on a monthly basis! If you say that you are being offered S/360 and 370 stuff (or even S/3), I am going to have to kill you for turning it down. Then I need to rent a BIG truck. Somehow, I think that you probably mean S/3x stuff, whick really is a bit common. And whatever you do (or anyone on this list), NEVER turn down the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules - they look like serious integrated circuits with 1000+ pins) from the 308x and 3090 series machines. They are apparently in VERY short supply. William Donzelli william@ans.net From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 16 22:46:31 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... References: <00a801bd508b$fa615180$0100a8c0@bertha> <3516a7a2.11334597@mail.swbell.net> <350CBBED.7ABB1F67@cnct.com> <35108fc1.2378472@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <350E0027.8F2B234A@cnct.com> Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:43:09 -0500, you said: > > >Matters of taste. I always liked MultiPlan on everything from the > >TRS-80 Model II (and 4) to the Unix version. Never had a problem > >with the user interface, which I prefer to the slash menus used by > >VisiCalc, SuperCalc, Lotus etc. But putting that same interface on > >Word for DOS made that my least favorite word processor to that > >point, and I've known some bad ones over the years. I _still_ > >prefer MultiPlan to the monster that Redmond replaced it with. > > I use Multiplan on the TI-99, I use Quattro Pro on my PC's. I always save everything as .SLK so that everything goes from one machine to another (memory permitting) (with Unix, virtual memory permitting) without loss of data. Formatting? That's for Ecxel folks who think if the spreadsheet is pretty it doesn't matter if the numbers say the company is going down the toilet. Quattro Pro is a fine product in its own right, BTW. It beat (legally) the look-and-feel Lotus copyright bullshit even after Lotus bought (and buried) VisiCalc where the look-and-feel originally derived. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 16 22:48:03 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... References: <19980316154001.23084.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <350E0083.618D8EA@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > What's wrong with COBOL? Should we itemize or do you want to take the standard deduction? -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 16 23:00:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: NS 57109? Message-ID: <199803170500.AA02413@world.std.com> <350D60CA.78F5AE85@crl.com> Message-ID: <350E0860.16AB372D@cnct.com> Greg Troutman wrote: > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > Unfortunately, now if you go to a CS department it's rare to see people > > using anything other than generic Unix boxes. This is a crying shame, as > > Unix was a pretty poor choice of OS's in 1972 (when it was started) and > > on today's big computers it's a much, much poorer choice compared to > > all the OS's developed by advanced research groups in the 70's and 80's. > > Yeah, but I think the motivation is that these projects come and go, the > direction (even objectives) of AI research fluctuates, but the computer > system has to stay and adapt--it's as if Unix itself has evolved into > the fittest beast in the jungle, maybe not the strongest or smartest, > just a capable survivor ;) An OS that works well in an academic environment is not necessarily the best for business. Business pays the money. The AI research OS platforms weren't good at business applications, or if they would have been there were no application packages written. This does _not_ mean that it couldn't have been -- hell, Microslough has a really crappy operating system, but the applications drive the market. Remember that universities get funded by grants from the governments and businesses presently using Windoze. I've been a Unix junkie for fifteen years now, but I don't expect anybody else outside of the Linux community to give me anything for free. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Mar 16 23:14:36 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: System names (was Re: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....) In-Reply-To: <9803170011.AA20649@alph02.triumf.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:11 PM 3/16/98 -0800, someone wrote: > >And most of the Unibus PDP-11's delivered in the 70's and early 80's had >cabinet trim and/or front panel color scheme as "Purple/Magenta", leading >to: > >PDP=Purple Data Processor NOOOOOOO! Don't go there!! next thing you know someone will be jumping in with their PDP-11/70 named "Barney"!!! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 16 23:50:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 at Fry's! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display. Unlike the gaudy Mayan and Aztec themes of some other recent Fry's, this one has sort of an art deco theme with large posters of HP35s, Xerox Altos, and other machines worthy of worship. -- Doug From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 17 00:09:53 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 at Fry's! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980316220953.00f526e0@pop.batnet.com> At 23:50 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in >Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display.... It's a lot prettier in that armorglass pyramid in the Books section than it was in a brown cardboard box in my bedroom closet ;-) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 17 00:30:26 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS. Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980316170530.094f0b6a@ricochet.net> At 08:46 AM 3/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >> PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test >> equipment! > >I am always amazed when you express amazement that computers that aren't >brand new are being used to do useful stuff :-). Ten, twenty, and >thirty-year old computers are used to run everything from gas chromotagraphy >units to MRI's, subway systems, factories, and cyclotrons, and some of us >make at least a part of our living ensuring that they continue to do the job. I'm currently working with Long's Drugs, a chain of pharmacies (up to 352 this week!) in the western US. About 15 years ago or so, they put an HP3000 in each store to manage the pharmacy systems. They're still there. Most of the stores are micro3000's (mid 80's?) but there are still some series 42 and 40 machines out there. (I used to have a list of what was at each store somehwere.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 17 00:30:39 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980316180343.094f1d02@ricochet.net> At 03:20 PM 3/15/98 +0000, you wrote: >All too often, formatting, multiple fonts, embedded pictures, colour, etc >are used as a replacement for content. I've got plenty of monospaced >documents with ascii-art diagrams that provide useful information, and an >equal number of nicely formatted documents with pictures that contain no >information at all. Substitute "web pages" for "documents" and it would be just as true. If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to convey an idea in your native tongue. Email is meant for communicating. Me, I use Eudora. It dumps that sort of thing into a disk file in my download directory; periodically I go and clean it up. Mind you, I love the web, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's simple, powerful, and really lets you do a lot without a lot of resources. (I've developed web pages on my portfolio, and view them regularly under DOS with Arachne.) But it's not intended for e-mail. Putting HTML in an e-mail message is like sending a video tape of yourself instead of a letter. It works, some people might prefer it, even need it, but for most people, what you've got to say isn't worth setting up a VCR/TV and sitting around to listen to you. If you really need e-mail in color with different size/font text, get yourself a subscription to penthouse. You'll be much happier in the long run. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 17 00:30:47 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980316182527.6d1f8a28@ricochet.net> At 06:23 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >need for a company to have a fancy letterhead, nor a mass mailer to have >colored brochures, nor ladies to have flowered and/or scented stationery, >yet we do have all these things, and more. Consider how boring text-only, Note that for most of these, there is no difference to the recipient. It doesn't take any longer to open a color brochure than one in black and white, logos don't take up any more space than the text, etc. In terms of e-mail, it's completely different. Those logos do take up space, color stuff does take longer to download. (And btw, there are a lot of people who are very allergic to the scented ads included with Macy's bills, and even a fair number of us who just get nauseated.) >not trivial point. Nevertheless, technology marches on, and as cable modems >(or whatever) become the norm rather than the exception, "waste" of Really? As of last fall, 80% of americans accessed the net at 14.4Kbps or less. (According to a speaker at the Bay Area Internet Users Group.) Add in the rest of the world and that goes way down. Damn yanks, always thinking nobody else matters! >public at large. If my wife wants to embed scanned newspaper clippings or a >kid's picture in an email to her cousin across country, who am I (or anyone) >to object? That's a different matter. If I send an e-mail to a potential client touting my services, that's one thing. To send a message selling used golf balls to every e-mail address I can find, that's spam. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 17 00:38:36 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 at Fry's! Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980316223125.6b37d6b8@ricochet.net> At 11:50 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in >Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display. Unlike the gaudy Mayan >and Aztec themes of some other recent Fry's, this one has sort of an art >deco theme with large posters of HP35s, Xerox Altos, and other machines >worthy of worship. Nah, don't need to. Had it in my living room for a night a couple of years ago. 8^) (Well, actually, it was all packaged for transport and I didn't dare open it up, so maybe I will...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 15:21:01 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , Doug Yowza writes >To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For >example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an >analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much >faster with analog vs. digital, but I'd have to guess that these are >implementation issues that get lost in the noise. But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just like any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. But then can an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 16 15:28:59 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <012701bd510c$1ef12720$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <4Hm1rIAbmZD1Ewil@formula1.demon.co.uk> In article <012701bd510c$1ef12720$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com>, Jack Peacock writes >a 4KB paper tape Basic for the Altair was bloated? Compared to >what, the 2KB Tiny Basic Dr. Dobbs was pushing? At least you >got paper tape for the Altair, the Dr. Dobbs version you had to >type in from very small print in the magazine. And most >important, Bill's 4K Basic worked, did anyone ever get the IMSAI >paper tape Basic to work? (We gave up and threw ours away after >several futile tries) Does anyone remember Basic5, for CP/M IIRC? It was a 5k Basic which took up about 8k. As for small languages, ETI published 'Simple' for the 8080 c.1977 which was a non-trivial self-contained interactive interpreter, in 256 bytes including space for your own UART drivers. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 17 03:39:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: [1.0/3.0] > But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you > have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just like > any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. That's interesting. How does SmallTalk deal with complex expressions? Does it postpone evaluation until forced? > But then can > an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? Sure, values like pi and e are real-world analog constants, but "analog machine" is pretty open-ended; at the lowest level, even digital machines use analog processes. It's been 10 years since I played with artificial neural nets, but the basic goal was to define a neuron-like computing element that: 1) Could be arranged in networks that mapped arbitrary input sets to arbitrary output sets. 2) Was simple enough to analyze mathematically. 3) Was trainable. All of the ANNs ignored the distinctions between analog and digital, as well as more obvious characteristics of real neurons. The first try was the single-layer perceptron. A neuron simply summed it's imputs and generated an output if the value exceeded a threshold. You can make AND and OR maps with these, but not XOR, for example. So, Minsky and Papert added a second layer, and showed that you could now make XOR maps, but they couldn't find a way to train the net to build such a map on its own. Then Rummelhart (at UCSD) showed that by adding non-linearities (a sigmoidal threshold function) and "back-propagating" errors through the net, you could train a net to generate an XOR map (and many other maps). For more complex mappings, there were lots of problems related to the time it would take a net to converge, how to best layout the net, scalability issues, how to model temporal associations, etc. Around this time, I had to get a job, so I don't know the state of affairs today, but since today there's more interest in Java than in neural nets, I assume they haven't solved the problems yet. -- Doug From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Tue Mar 17 05:34:23 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <01bd5198$a2674e40$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> From: Uncle Roger >If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back >and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone >to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to >convey an idea in your native tongue. > Although English would be preferred despite the fact that it is not the native tongue worldwide ;-) Regards Pete From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Mar 16 20:55:45 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <01bd5150$2ecd9360$LocalHost@hotze> >> > Oh, CDC...Computer Dinosaur Corporation... >> >> And one I coined after I'd been given the price for some trivial spare >> part (a light bulb, I think) for a PDP11.. >> >> DEC - Darn Expensive Components :-) > >And most of the Unibus PDP-11's delivered in the 70's and early 80's had >cabinet trim and/or front panel color scheme as "Purple/Magenta", leading >to: > >PDP=Purple Data Processor IBM=Intern-run Brainless Corporation (But not any more!) From bwit at pobox.com Tue Mar 17 06:56:09 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: References: <01BD5110.632F1B00@ppp-151-164-52-14.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317065609.0073750c@swbell.net> At 06:59 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>What's wrong with COBOL? >> >>The OBOL part. > >Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) Actually I like both SNOBOL and COBOL very much. I just couldn't resist putting in a little plug for my beloved C. :-) bw From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 07:42:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13340395716.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [IBM S/36] Runs for years - but mine takes in the area of 20 minutes to ask me for an IPL password! It's a 5363, a nice, PC-sized S/36, but it's NOT that PC-36 thing... I've seen manuals, and it looks fairly ugly. (It's a PC/AT size case, with a strange bus extender thingie (I think) that plugs into a PC/AT for console/print/disk/whatever services). Mine also doesn't stretch the power limit any... You need 240VAC for a Sys/34? Mine wants 208V/1PH, and it indicates that it can be rewired for other voltages... Maybe if you have manuals or something you can tell me how? I have a pin converter dongle for the power cord so I don't have to mutilate the existing one, so I could try things here... Besides, if I got it wrong, it'd powercheck before damaging things, right? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 07:58:05 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: System names (was Re: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <13340398585.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [I love you, you love me, I'm your purple P-D-P...] Oh, not in 10 bazillion years! I hate that detestable creature! Barney is the Purple Satan! Besides, I name all my machines after Sailormoon characters. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 17 08:27:15 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980317082715.00bd5a50@pc> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may call it a >steaming pile of horseshit as well. Is this the first time you've heard someone criticize Microsoft or its products? >You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me >want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the >dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. I'd be glad to pay shipping... Do you have a web page describing what you're giving away? :-) Me? I find myself defending Bill at every turn, and that has nothing to do with sending him/you thousands of dollars a year. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 17 08:44:17 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: PM2400SA Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980317084417.00b0fd00@pc> "Max Eskin" wrote: >A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was >supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external. >It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier >on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is? I believe that's called a "non-functional modem". Try "AT&F" to see if it's resettable to factory defaults. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 17 08:44:13 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: PDP parts rescue in Hannover Germany Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980317084413.00bd6a90@pc> Subject: Hardware for PDP From: H G Duehring Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:46:52 +0100 Organization: aball Internet Netzdienste GmbH, Hannover, Germany Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 I give some hardware for free for UNIBUS and PDP 11/34, pick up by yourself in Germany: RL01/02 Drives ; differtent boards ; R;L01/02 Disks. RX01/02 parts ; 8" Diskettes. RX50 Drives ; RD 51 Drives ; LA50 Printers ; VR201 Screens. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 09:05:06 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <19980317150506.14815.qmail@hotmail.com> Doesn't help much, sorry. COmmon Business Oriented Language and you say that the C is the only part that's good? What is COBOL like, anyway? >>What's wrong with COBOL? > >The OBOL part. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 17 09:18:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.../old basics Message-ID: <199803171518.AA22149@world.std.com> Kai Kaltenbech chose to produce the following... >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:45:01 -0800 >From: Kai Kaltenbach >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: RE: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... >You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me >want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the >dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I notice that you work for Microsoft. With that in mind, your own statements are very understandable. I would point out that I have not attacked you, personally, in any way. You have given me no reason to. You, on the other wing, seem intent on attacking me strictly on the basis of my statement of a personal opinion. Chill out, have a brew, sit back, and think about this for a minute. Who's the one that really produced the "unthinking tirade?" ;-) We are all entitled to our own opinions. I welcome the fact that you obviously disagree with me (if everyone on the planet agreed on everything, I think we'd all be in more trouble than we are now, as a race!). If you would like clarification on why I feel the way I do, and the basis behind my statements, feel free to E-mail me so we don't end up cluttering the list. If you do not feel inclined to do so, that's no problem either. I will say this much and let it go. I have no great love for Microsoft products or for Billy-boy Gates' arrogant attitudes. I am not alone in these beliefs. I am a firm believer in consumer choice for hardware and software. Microsoft seems to support that choice -- as long as it's Microsoft's code-bloated, resource-wasteful software that is chosen. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get to work. BTW, my apologies to the other readers of this list. This is the last you'll hear from me on this thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Tue Mar 17 09:31:50 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Ultrix: Which Unix is it based on? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317073150.00e4a850@mail.jps.net> This is a general question (and a return to topic -- sorry, I didn't mean to start a whole meaningless thread) for my fellow DEC'ers or anyone else with knowledge on the subject; which Unix is Ultrix (notably 4.3) based on, and how badly did DEC bastardize it? It would help me to know, 'cause I plan to use an Ultrix box as a mail processor eventually. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 17 09:39:54 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Stop ATTACKING! (Especially Microsoft!) Message-ID: <01bd51ba$eebd6b40$LocalHost@hotze> The more that I think about this, the more that I hate it. People are attacking Microsoft, which I think is *very unfair.*. Sure, they've always got their eye on being the undisputed leader. But is that any different from what Intel, DEC, Apple, or any other company, no matter how grand in technologies wants? Is that different from what *you* want? So, Microsoft's outgrown itself. For instance, it takes weeks to get a tech support reply back. So what? They're stepping into new territories, that they don't really know about. It makes *competition*, what brings out the best in companies, people, and prices. Anti-competitive measures? Everyone tries them, the only problem is when they *work*. Then, we get upset. For instance, Sun closing software and hardware design discourages competition. It's the same with drivers, hardware specs, and why companies keep most beta information under wraps. So, we've had our fun. We've stated our opinions. Time will prove us right, wrong, or indifferent. Let's let it take it's cource. And, enjoy it while we're on our way. Flaming isn't a solution, it's a problem. I implore you to think of this. Thanks for your time, Tim D. Hotze From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 17 10:11:19 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: yo Message-ID: Message with no relevant information, and especially having nothing to do with this mailing list. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dlw at neosoft.com Tue Mar 17 04:12:44 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <13340398585.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <199803171613.KAA20268@mailbox.neosoft.com> On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Besides, I name all my machines after > Sailormoon characters. ------- You are one sick puppy. :-) I name systems on my home network after ships from different anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for my PDP-11/34 yet. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 17 10:40:28 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: INTEL PDS-100 Message-ID: <1998Mar17.113914.1767.89117@smtp.itgonline.com> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks- Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 17 10:48:23 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: INTEL PDS-100 References: <1998Mar17.113914.1767.89117@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <350EA957.394BEFF@crl.com> Marty wrote: > > I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or > information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two > prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly > large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and > two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. > > Any information would be greatly appreciated. The only information I can offer on this is that I wish I had it. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 10:19:23 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Preserving software Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317101923.00a2fd70@pop3.webzone.net> Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 10:42:36 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317104236.00a2e490@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:21 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote: >In article 100000@behemoth.host4u.net>, Doug Yowza writes >>To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For >>example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an >>analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much >>faster with analog vs. digital, but I'd have to guess that these are >>implementation issues that get lost in the noise. >But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you >have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just like >any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. But then can >an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? The obvious answer, from the non-PhD perspective, an analog computer tied together with a digital computer. Let the analog computer decide which problems to hand over to the digital computer, just like humans do when they're working at the office. >-- >Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 10:15:35 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:45 2005 Subject: History of OSs? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317101535.00a2c100@pop3.webzone.net> Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being discussed here--some of them sound very interesting. I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was doing at the time. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 10:51:13 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <13340395716.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317105113.00804560@pop3.webzone.net> At 05:42 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >[IBM S/36] >Runs for years - but mine takes in the area of 20 minutes to ask me for an IPL >password! It's a 5363, a nice, PC-sized S/36, but it's NOT that PC-36 thing... If your IPL is taking that long, you ought to see if you can find a copy of "S/36 POWER TOOLS" floating around (it's available from Duke Press for $80). You're probably doing some IPL key sorts or other ops that might not be necessary, especially if you inherited the machine from a business user. POWER TOOLS includes a bunch of cool utils and "tips and tricks" stuff that should help you get a faster IPL. I usually only run mine for a week or so at a time, but it's never crashed, even when I unplug periphs or accidentally cut off power to a peripheral. I wish I had the opportunity to run one in a multi-user environment, I think it would be beautiful to watch. >I've seen manuals, and it looks fairly ugly. (It's a PC/AT size case, >with a strange bus extender thingie (I think) that plugs into a PC/AT for >console/print/disk/whatever services). I've got two of them--want 'em? They aren't bad if you're interested in learning the OS, etc. but intolerably slow. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Mar 17 11:00:32 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Ultrix: Which Unix is it based on? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980317073150.00e4a850@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Mar 17, 98 07:31:50 am Message-ID: <199803171700.MAA23724@shell.monmouth.com> > > This is a general question (and a return to topic -- sorry, I didn't mean > to start a whole meaningless thread) for my fellow DEC'ers or anyone else > with knowledge on the subject; which Unix is Ultrix (notably 4.3) based on, > and how badly did DEC bastardize it? > > It would help me to know, 'cause I plan to use an Ultrix box as a mail > processor eventually. > > Thanks! > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > Which Ultrix. Vax? They were mostly 4.2, 4.3ish. Mips were kind of 4.2, 4.3ish I think Ultrix-11 was V7. Bill If Ultrix Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 17 11:08:22 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 16, 98 01:41:12 pm Message-ID: <9803171708.AA21988@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 637 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/aaa80ad2/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 11:20:59 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names Message-ID: <19980317172059.26761.qmail@hotmail.com> > >On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >> Besides, I name all my machines after >> Sailormoon characters. ------- What names are these (I'm not familiar w/sailor moon)? > >I name systems on my home network after ships from different >anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes >from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for >my PDP-11/34 yet. I find that if I ever want to address my system by name, I had better not say it anyway ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 11:31:54 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <199803171613.KAA20268@mailbox.neosoft.com> Message-ID: <13340437508.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [One sick puppy] And just what does that mean??? [No name for 11/34] I found one for mine, easy! It makes a peculiar whining noise when running, as the PSU is too lightly loaded. I named it Usagi. :) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 11:37:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980317105113.00804560@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <13340438462.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [IPL is slow...] I mean the IPL *BEFORE* it asks me for username/password. It counts down from 11 on the console, and takes eternity. [Want a few PC-36es?] Not really, I'm pushing my storage as is. Maybe when I get moved in some- where, I could use them. I have the microcode disks and such for them... [Learning the S/36 O/S] That's a question of how much time I get to burn with it. Mine apparently speaks RPG and Assembler, I wish it did BASIC. Maybe as I screw with it some, I'll learn. I have a quickref book and a few manuals. [Hostname?] Do IBM's need a hostname? I plan to make (some attempt) at networking this with the S/34... [Operation with no printer] What was that command again? ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 17 11:40:20 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names Message-ID: <199803171740.AA18430@world.std.com> <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 17 11:46:32 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names References: <13340437508.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <350EB6F8.7D1FC349@crl.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [One sick puppy] > And just what does that mean??? Well one does not need to be a psychotherapist to reach certain conclusions about why your computers are named after 14 year old girls in very short skirts ;) Sick plug: If you have Java, you may wish to visit my home page and play Jupiter Saves the Universe (yes, it's _that_ Jupiter)... -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 11:41:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <19980317172059.26761.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13340439211.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Not familiar with Sailormoon] I'd suggest http://super.win.or.jp/~doi/smoon It's Hitoshi Doi's archive, and it's pretty well loaded. Set your browser up for ShiftJIS/JIS fonts, and it looks really cool, as you can see the actual katakana in the names. As far as I can push it, only Ami (Sailor Mercury's) palmtop belongs on the list, since it was apparently made in Silver Millenium times and is therefore about 1000 years old. If you need more information, mail me privately and I'll talk my head off. :) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 11:46:36 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <350EB6F8.7D1FC349@crl.com> Message-ID: <13340440186.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Girls in short skirts...] That has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! (Well... maybe a LITTLE...) I think it's a wonderful story! The girls running around in skimpy outfits has little/nothing to do with it. (I have to bang this into Jeff's head, he's always making ecchi remarks about that...) [Jupiter Saves...] Oh! You wrote that? Cool! I went and played it once, my parent were annoyed as I was supposed to be finding something important for them. [Worse...] If you think naming machines after Senshi is bad, I have a sailormoon tape (In japanese!) that I play in my car. Made it myself from .mp2's on the internet. I can sing along to most of it and actually keep time/ not screw word up. Of course, I haven't the foggiest what I'm saying, but it gets my brother to shut up. It's all good. BTW, Ami is my favorite. Any chance of doing an Ami Saves the World game? ------- From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 11:46:49 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <13340438462.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980317105113.00804560@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317114649.009d9b90@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:37 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >[IPL is slow...] >I mean the IPL *BEFORE* it asks me for username/password. >It counts down from 11 on the console, and takes eternity. Ok, what mode is the key switch set to? I think Service mode takes quite a bit longer to POST...I'll have to check. > >[Want a few PC-36es?] >Not really, I'm pushing my storage as is. Maybe when I get moved in some- >where, I could use them. I have the microcode disks and such for them... > >[Learning the S/36 O/S] >That's a question of how much time I get to burn with it. >Mine apparently speaks RPG and Assembler, I wish it did BASIC. >Maybe as I screw with it some, I'll learn. I have a quickref book and >a few manuals. Want to swap something for the ASM diskettes? How about BASIC? > >[Hostname?] >Do IBM's need a hostname? I plan to make (some attempt) at networking >this with the S/34... That I'm not sure of. My 36 is stand-alone. :( > >[Operation with no printer] >What was that command again? SYSLIST CRT You can also do this from the menus, I forget where, but if you drill down about three levels in the admin stuff it's there. >------- > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 11:53:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980317114649.009d9b90@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <13340441522.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Key position] It's in Service mode. Permanenly. I don't have they key, so I connected a few wires. Besides, it doesn't let me boot in Normal mode. Someone edited the key before me. (They had the same problem. But they broke the Normal lead off at wherever it ends up) (Connecting it had no effect. No IPL.) ------- From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 17 11:55:19 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Preserving software In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980317101923.00a2fd70@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317095519.00f61170@pop.batnet.com> At 10:19 3/17/98 -0600, David wrote: >....I >have a lot of old PC applications, and.... >would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in >operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? I can't speak for what they like to save, but you can contact the historical side at: Computer Museum History Center Building T-12A Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000 650-604-2578 __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 17 11:58:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: History of OSs? Message-ID: <199803171758.AA07966@world.std.com> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> CPM-80--> CPM86--> dos-1.0--> The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix has been an influence but largely not that great. UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some of which even resemble each other. Allison From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Mar 17 12:03:31 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: History of OSs? In-Reply-To: <199803171758.AA07966@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 17, 98 12:58:05 pm Message-ID: <9803171803.AA22789@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1037 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/1825e8bd/attachment.ksh From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 06:08:29 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , William Donzelli writes >I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk. >They really are not. I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of >*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read >revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of >inovations are commonplace today. This is a good point. Ever since I had my little 360/30 I've had a soft spot for IBM for this very reason. Many of the features we take for granted were introduced with the S/360, or at least came together into a single product line. I know that IBM were/are regarded as something of a dinosaur, but they have always been very innovative without ignoring commercial realities. Maybe that's why they're still around. No company does anyone any favours by developing the best computer in the world and then going bust (except maybe those here benefit :-) -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Mar 17 11:04:24 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <199803171613.KAA20268@mailbox.neosoft.com> References: <13340398585.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199803171754.LAA24355@onyx.southwind.net> > On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > > Besides, I name all my machines after > > Sailormoon characters. ------- > > You are one sick puppy. :-) > > I name systems on my home network after ships from different > anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes > from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for > my PDP-11/34 yet. > Ok, I'll add mine: My systems are named after ships of the (former) Imperial Japanese Navy. Hiryu, Akagi, Shinano . . . When it comes to my work, I've always fancied myself as a bit of a Kamikaze Pilot . .. Jeff From peacock at simconv.com Tue Mar 17 12:40:13 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: History of OSs? Message-ID: <008601bd51d4$1fa97dc0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >The dos geneology is roughly... > >DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> > CPM-80--> > CPM86--> > dos-1.0--> > >The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. > >DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix >has been an influence but largely not that great. > >UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some >of which even resemble each other. >Allison To add in a bit more.... CP/M comes directly from RT-11 and the RSTS tree. Even the PIP command (peripheral interchance program) was very similar to the RT-11 version of PIP. CP/M had a more sophisticated file system than RT-11, but less sophisticated device drivers. VMS was not the first virtual memory OS that DEC wrote. TOPS-20, for the PDP-20 (that was a PDP-10 with virtual memory) was the first virtual system. TOPS-20 was not the same as TOPS-10, even the system calls were invoked a different way. (My first real systems programming job was on a 20/40, a joy to work on, tho slow by modern standards). Jack Peacock From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 12:34:00 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <199803171754.LAA24355@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <13340448813.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Kamikaze Pilot] Isn't that what's referred to as Shotgun Debugging? ------- From szewczykm at hcgi.com Tue Mar 17 12:48:26 1998 From: szewczykm at hcgi.com (Mike Szewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. Message-ID: > If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but I'm no where near qualified to do so. Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old equipment? Thanks - Mike From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 17 07:54:02 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199803171854.NAA13594@smtp.interlog.com> On 16 Mar 98 at 21:21, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > In article 100000@behemoth.host4u.net>, Doug Yowza writes > >To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For > >example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an > >analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much > >faster with analog vs. digital, but I'd have to guess that these are > >implementation issues that get lost in the noise. > But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you > have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just like > any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. But then can > an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? > -- > Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk When I took my Electronics course , one of my greatest bafflements and frustrations was dealing with the "approximations" of analogue circuits. Needless to say it was a great relief when we moved on to the exactitude of digital circuits. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Mar 17 13:01:12 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: If there is no FAQ, I'll volunteer to start one. Dan On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Mike Szewczyk wrote: > > If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but > I'm no where near qualified to do so. > > Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will > be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old > equipment? > > Thanks - Mike > > From william at ans.net Tue Mar 17 13:13:28 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Old IBMs In-Reply-To: <13340395716.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > You need 240VAC for a Sys/34? Mine wants 208V/1PH, and it indicates that > it can be rewired for other voltages... Maybe if you have manuals or something > you can tell me how? I have a pin converter dongle for the power cord so I > don't have to mutilate the existing one, so I could try things here... > Besides, if I got it wrong, it'd powercheck before damaging things, right? Nearly everything made for 240 VAC will work on 208 VAC. The reverse is also true. William Donzelli william@ans.net From peacock at simconv.com Tue Mar 17 13:21:52 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. Message-ID: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> How about initial procedures when you get some new treasure recently saved from the greedy jaws of the salvagers. Things like: blow out the dirt, check for burnt/obviously damaged components, frayed or pinched cables, reseat socketed parts and clean off any corrosion or "purple plague" on the IC pins, power supply outputs, loose screws dropped in the power supply or motherboard. And most important of all....make copies of the schematics and boot disks. Another idea for the FAQ: if it isn't restorable, at least pull all the socketed ICs (and put them in static foam) so someone else might be able to restore one. I keep a big box of old parts from boards I have tossed. Jack Peacock From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 17 13:34:37 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? In-Reply-To: <01bd5198$a2674e40$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317143437.00aa5810@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Pete Joules typed: >From: Uncle Roger >>If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back >>and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone >>to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to >>convey an idea in your native tongue. >Although English would be preferred despite the fact that it is not the >native tongue worldwide ;-) Was ist los??? Sprechen Sie keine Deutsch??? Na ja, *Ich* spreche ein bi?chen Deutsch... Pete, the language you use (english, german (for the example above) etc.) was not Roger's point. His point is this: In your native tongue, if you cannot express yourself with plain text (whichever encoding you require) then HTML won't help you. Period. Granted, my German is quite rusty & slow, so I do prefer to communication to this list using English, but if others were to post in German I would not have a problem with it. As this is an American list, tho, it would prolly be good manners for foriegn language posters to put a [Deutsch] or whatever language you posted with in the subject of the message. AFAIK, Bill Whitson (the owner of the list) has not ruled out multi-language messages, provided they're on topic. Zip. That was the sound of my mouth zipping shut on this matter. All else will be privatized. See ya, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 17 13:30:49 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: I've put a copy of the FAQ at http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt Note: this is not an official location, and it may disappear at some point. -- Doug From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 17 13:41:45 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803171941.TAA29735@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :Perhaps :incredibly, Turing _did_ believe that there was something special :about the brain (in particular he could/would not rule out ESP) and :so I don't think he would ever have claimed that a Turing Machine :could do anything that a human brain could. The TM was designed to :solve a specific problem in mathematical theory, rather than as a :theoretical ultimate brain. no, the brain/intelligence thing came with the "turing *test*" which is the idea that you could converse with a computer on one terminal, a human on another, and not be able to reliably identify which was which. (turing was a complex, fascinating, and very innocent human, and he was treated despicably by the british government after the second world war.) :But now you've got me trying to think of something that an :analog(ue) computer can do that a digital one can't. fuzzy logic...? ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 17 13:41:51 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks... Message-ID: <199803171941.TAA29758@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-15 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying :around? can you make that two copies? we could use one. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 17 13:41:39 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <199803171941.TAA29723@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that :make me want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic :computers in the dumpster just so I would no longer have to count :myself among your company. :Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may :call it a steaming pile of horseshit as well. hey, kai, calm down, everyone has to start somewhere... ;> seriously, we very much doubt that everyone in microsoft is set upon filling the world with shite software that slows everything to a dawdle and destroys competition. however, what peeves us is (a) that microsoft *have* eliminated competition to a large extent - it's just not healthy! especially when mr gates has to resort to injecting cash into his most innovative competitor to keep them in that position (hell, alive!) - and (b) that microsoft produce software with the emphasis perpetually on getting people into computers, widening the accessibility of machines, but not really improving in the way that people who need to use and develop with computers for a living require. microsoft, even more than apple these days, produces software "for the rest of us" (inasmuch as the rest of 'em don't try anything ambitious) but microsoft products don't include the necessary hooks and extensibility whereby an expert can get through the easy-features and do things properly with the minimum of interruption. if you can carry that message back to the powers that be, we'd all be very much happier out here. we'd still be worried about the future, because of the lack of competition, but at least it might not be a future of unmitigated mediocrity. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 17 13:42:08 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <199803171942.TAA29803@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-15 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM :Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were :bloatware by any standard. you know, we've heard it mooted that bill gates himself is not a bad programmer. we've also heard that the last thing he worked on in person was the software for the kyocera laptops of the mid 80s. perhaps this is the problem... we have a suspicion that bill gates uses macs - hence the cash investment ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Tue Mar 17 13:42:14 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <199803171942.TAA29818@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-15 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :However, there are 2 things that spring to mind. Firstly Hitachi :were associated with the Compact Floppy disks which are normally :called 3" disks. I've just measured one and : :It's a black plastic case measuring 3+1/8" * 3+7/8" * 3/16" :I've attempted to measure the actual disk through holes in the case, :and it meassures 2.8" in diameter, or thereabouts those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post them for special concessionary cassette rates in japan, we're told - it kept them alive a little while longer than they should have stayed... ;> :Secondly, I've heard of 2.75" disk drives. Some of them were :_sequential_ access - there was no separate head possitioner, it :was driven by the spindle motor. You had to start at the outside of :the disk and read all the data up to the point that you wanted. quick disks. msx used them, as did a few early samplers (roland s10, akai s612(?), etc) and a few other bits. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 17 14:06:44 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803171942.TAA29818@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > On 1998-03-15 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk > :However, there are 2 things that spring to mind. Firstly Hitachi > :were associated with the Compact Floppy disks which are normally > :called 3" disks. I've just measured one and : > :It's a black plastic case measuring 3+1/8" * 3+7/8" * 3/16" > :I've attempted to measure the actual disk through holes in the case, > :and it meassures 2.8" in diameter, or thereabouts > > those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post them > for special concessionary cassette rates in japan, we're told - it kept > them alive a little while longer than they should have stayed... ;> > > :Secondly, I've heard of 2.75" disk drives. Some of them were > :_sequential_ access - there was no separate head possitioner, it > :was driven by the spindle motor. You had to start at the outside of > :the disk and read all the data up to the point that you wanted. > > quick disks. msx used them, as did a few early samplers (roland s10, > akai s612(?), etc) and a few other bits. Some of the sequential access disks - albeit, in 3.5" size - were used in small dedicated wordprocessors such as Smith Corona and Brother also. - don > -- > Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling > you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 17 14:06:19 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <003d01bd51e0$2baca1e0$05f438cb@nostromo> I quote the FAQ 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. Please please guys and gals; Check your anti-MS baggage at the door. Talk Classic computers.... classic computers.... classic computers. Furthermore, classic computers... classic computers... get the idea? A From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 17 14:52:27 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > How about initial procedures when you get some new treasure > recently saved from the greedy jaws of the salvagers. Things > like: blow out the dirt, check for burnt/obviously damaged > components, frayed or pinched cables, reseat socketed parts and > clean off any corrosion or "purple plague" on the IC pins, power > supply outputs, loose screws dropped in the power supply or > motherboard. And most important of all....make copies of the > schematics and boot disks. > > Another idea for the FAQ: if it isn't restorable, at least pull > all the socketed ICs (and put them in static foam) so someone > else might be able to restore one. I keep a big box of old > parts from boards I have tossed. Jeez. All of this stuff is in the FAQ. The problem is one of the following: A) Nobody can access it due to server problems at u.washington.edu B) It doesn't get sent out to new subscribers C) People ignore it Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 17 14:54:52 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > I've put a copy of the FAQ at > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt > > Note: this is not an official location, and it may disappear at some > point. This may as well be the official location since the "official" location is inaccessible. I hereby declare Doug's address above the new official web address since nobody else will. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 17 15:11:28 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: References: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317161128.00acce50@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Sam Ismail typed: >Jeez. All of this stuff is in the FAQ. The problem is one of the >following: > >A) Nobody can access it due to server problems at u.washington.edu >B) It doesn't get sent out to new subscribers Both of these are true, AFAIK. >C) People ignore it How can people be blamed for ignoring it, if it's not accessible? Anyway, if it's O.K. with Bill Whitson (the owner of this list) I'd be more than happy to post a copy of the FAQ (and anything else available on the subject) on my web page, and change the subscription message to include this URL for those of us (which is prolly most) with Web access. Then when it's easily accessible, then snotty folks like me (when warranted -- in this particular case I don't think it is) can say "Look in the !)@(#*$&%^ FAQ!!!" ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Mar 17 15:20:42 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: History of OSs? In-Reply-To: <008601bd51d4$1fa97dc0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 17, 98 10:40:13 am Message-ID: <199803172120.QAA19706@shell.monmouth.com> > VMS was not the first virtual memory OS that DEC wrote. > TOPS-20, for the PDP-20 (that was a PDP-10 with virtual memory) > was the first virtual system. TOPS-20 was not the same as > TOPS-10, even the system calls were invoked a different way. > (My first real systems programming job was on a 20/40, a joy to > work on, tho slow by modern standards). > Jack Peacock > > However, TOPS-20 is based on Tenex which had virtual memory in it before DEC got a hold of it. VAX/VMS, I figure, was the first "DEC from the ground up" Virtual Memory System... Am I incorrect folks? Please correct this old Vax Tech. (No slight meant to TOPS-20 and TOPS-10. I remember my SIMTEL-20 ftp's and DEC MARKET-20 days fondly) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Mar 17 15:07:59 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Strange board Message-ID: I have a board which came in a job lot from a bankruptcy sale about 10 years ago. I wonder if anyone can identify it. The only writing on it says 'SYKES' and '9000 MP CONTROLLER'. The most prominent chip is marked MCS6502. It has rows of small chips indexed along the edge of the board A..Y down one side and 1..9 along the short edge. It is about 6" X 10" and has a 12 contact edge connector and two sockets, one of 40 and one of 50 pins either side of the edge connector. There are 3 chips which are (obviously?) memory as they are labelled D1/FC00, F1/FA00 and K1/FE00. There is also a 16MHz crystal oscillator. Any ideas what it might be? Regards Pete From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 17 15:25:53 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: INTEL PDS-100 Message-ID: <1998Mar17.162452.1767.89274@smtp.itgonline.com> Any idea where I might find documentation for Intel PDS-100? Same place I can find a winning powerball lottery ticket I suppose? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/17/98 12:51 PM <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar17.125113.1767.32401; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:51:14 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA08473; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:54 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA20252 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:38 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA06258 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:36 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17968; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA18685; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199803171740.AA18685@world.std.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 17 15:13:06 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... In-Reply-To: <199803171942.TAA29803@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980317151306.008043d0@pop3.webzone.net> At 07:42 PM 3/17/98 GMT, you wrote: >On 1998-03-15 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk > :FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM > :Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were > :bloatware by any standard. > >you know, we've heard it mooted that bill gates himself is not a bad >programmer. we've also heard that the last thing he worked on in person >was the software for the kyocera laptops of the mid 80s. > >perhaps this is the problem... we have a suspicion that bill gates uses >macs - hence the cash investment ;> >-- >Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling >you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... > > Last I read, Mr. Gates uses a Compaq notebook with a docking station at the office, and one at home. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Mar 17 13:35:31 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <13340448813.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <199803171754.LAA24355@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <199803172102.PAA12696@onyx.southwind.net> > [Kamikaze Pilot] > > Isn't that what's referred to as Shotgun Debugging? > ------- > In one sense I imagine, but I generally don't work that way. Actually, the Kamikaze bit refers to the days when I did field service on networks. Being a chump, I was frequently sent into a site where the situation was totally out of hand; the customer hostile, network hosed up, data in jeopardy with no recent backups, etc., etc. I was sent out on a few of these calls from which I was not expected to return (sic). ;^) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 15:36:04 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Preserving software Message-ID: <19980317213604.2962.qmail@hotmail.com> If you are referring to the Computer museum on Boston Harbor, it's fine. I have no idea what they would do with anything anyone might give them, though. They don't have much space... > >Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I >have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but >would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in >operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? > >I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to >build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for >IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 17 15:39:33 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <199803172102.PAA12696@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <13340482592.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Kamikaze bit explanation] Ahh, I see. Did you remeber to banzai to the Emperor when you entered the door? Serious question, although VERY off-topic: What kind of drugs did they GIVE those boys to convince them to fly into a boat? I was told they loaded them up with sake, which means that Japanese sake must be VERY potent... ------- From aaron at wfi-inc.com Tue Mar 17 18:12:50 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: AT&T Unix PC 7300.... Message-ID: I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? Thanks, Aaron From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Mar 17 16:18:42 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: AT&T Unix PC 7300.... In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Mar 17, 98 04:12:50 pm Message-ID: <199803172218.RAA18120@shell.monmouth.com> > > I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback > on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > A good place to check is comp.sys.3b1 or comp.sys.att... I've heard $150 mentioned a couple of times in the group. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 17 16:50:30 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names In-Reply-To: <13340482592.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [Kamikaze bit explanation] > > Ahh, I see. > > Did you remeber to banzai to the Emperor when you entered the door? > > Serious question, although VERY off-topic: What kind of drugs did they GIVE > those boys to convince them to fly into a boat? I was told they > loaded them up with sake, which means that Japanese sake must be > VERY potent... > ------- I think you would find that it was a very fanatic form of patriotism rather than the sake. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 17:09:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: System names Message-ID: <19980317230946.20928.qmail@hotmail.com> Be careful not jam the (diskette) magazines ;) > >[Kamikaze Pilot] > >Isn't that what's referred to as Shotgun Debugging? >------- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 17 13:03:28 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: History of OSs? In-Reply-To: <9803171803.AA22789@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199803171758.AA07966@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 17, 98 12:58:05 pm Message-ID: <199803180003.TAA12838@smtp.interlog.com> On 17 Mar 98 at 10:03, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix > > has been an influence but largely not that great. > > > > UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some > > of which even resemble each other. > > A good place to look for Unix history is > > http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > > Tim. > > Byte-Oct.83 was a whole issue devoted to Unix on Micros and included the last installment of a 3 part in-depth tutorial. While looking thru my old collection of mags , I also came upon a full-page ad from MS intoducing Xenix- Unix v.7 OS for 16bit micros in an Oct 23, 1980 issue of Electronics , an excellent mag that IIRC was restricted to e-industry subs. Electronics-July28,83 also featured Unix with articles by Bill Joy of Sun and Paul Jackson of Convergent Technologies kicking off a series of articles. A sidebar gave the evolution of UNIX : BELL LABS Berkely Enhancements. 1975 v6 >>>>>>>>>>1977 1.0 Pascal EX 1978 2.0 vi 1978 V7(Portable)>>32 V(vax)>>> 1979 3.0 Paging(virt mem) Lisp 1980 4.0 Job Control; Tuning; Long variable names in loader; Auto Reboot 1981 4.1 VAX750, 730 support Massbus,Unibus support 1982 Sys III (AT&T Standard) 1983 4.2 Network support(tcp/ip) Faster filesys. Interproc.com. 1983 Sys V 4.2 on Sun Diskless Work stations Graphics Windows Unix Development Machines 1977 PDP-11 >>>> 1979 VAX >>>> 1983 Sun >>>> An attempt at reproducing it in e-mail. Some good well-written articles. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Mar 17 13:03:27 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: References: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <199803180003.TAA12849@smtp.interlog.com> On 17 Mar 98 at 13:30, Doug Yowza wrote: > I've put a copy of the FAQ at > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt > > Note: this is not an official location, and it may disappear at some > point. > > -- Doug > Good. You received it OK then. I edited out the header lines on them since I thought they weren't needed. I almost also included Tony Duell's excellent soldering tips , since he was agreeable to someone's suggestion that it be included. How do others feel about that ? I'm sure Bill wouldn't object. I kept a copy, but I'm sure that Tony could do a better job at editing and even extending it. Hmmm Tony ? ciao larry RTFF lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 12:35:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:46 2005 Subject: tandata td-1600 In-Reply-To: <00ac01bd5154$d13731c0$5af438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Mar 17, 98 02:28:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1122 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/51c6a8c2/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 18:15:32 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA Message-ID: <19980318001532.12756.qmail@hotmail.com> I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have a feeling it's something else. Ideas? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 12:37:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: NS 57109? In-Reply-To: <199803170353.WAA09355@webern.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Mar 16, 98 10:53:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/accfc09a/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Tue Mar 17 18:40:01 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA Message-ID: <01bd5206$627729e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >a feeling it's something else. Ideas? > Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using Line and not Phone From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Mar 17 19:19:02 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: yo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <351120d6.189546884@hoser> Oh, Sam - you're our hero! On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail wrote: > >Message with no relevant information, and especially having nothing to >do with this mailing list. -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 17:06:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <199803171854.NAA13594@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 17, 98 01:54:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1286 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/0d1fcea4/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 17 19:33:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA Message-ID: <19980318013318.26379.qmail@hotmail.com> No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200. >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: Re: PN2400SA > > > >>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >>I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >>the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >>reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >>a feeling it's something else. Ideas? >> >Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using >Line and not Phone > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 18:29:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: <199803180003.TAA12849@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 17, 98 07:03:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 496 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/11db5b65/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 17:31:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803171942.TAA29818@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 17, 98 07:42:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2636 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/0e2a3554/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 17 17:13:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: <00b701bd51d9$f1386540$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Mar 17, 98 11:21:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1350 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980317/c9adb739/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Mar 17 19:49:10 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: AT&T Unix PC 7300.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317194910.006bf75c@pop3.concentric.net> I have two one for $30 at Goodwill and one for $15 from scrape dealer. Now the same Goodwill has sold about 10 more complete with mouse and everything for $20 each. Good Luck with yours. John At 04:12 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback >on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? > >Thanks, > >Aaron > > > From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 17 20:35:22 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: INTEL PDS-100 References: <1998Mar17.162452.1767.89274@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <350F32EA.3EE9F684@crl.com> Marty wrote: > > Any idea where I might find documentation for Intel PDS-100? Same > place I can find a winning powerball lottery ticket I suppose? Try sending a plea for help to support@mailbox.intel.com. They just sent me the big data book on the MCS-48 for the price of asking. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue Mar 17 20:46:17 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: History of OSs? In-Reply-To: <199803172120.QAA19706@shell.monmouth.com> References: <008601bd51d4$1fa97dc0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <199803180246.NAA15651@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:20 PM 17-03-98 -0500, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: >However, TOPS-20 is based on Tenex which had virtual memory in it before >DEC got a hold of it. I'm not sure whether the Tenex VM was retrofitted into TOPS-10 or not but we definitely ran v6.03 of TOPS-10 with VM around 1974-75. >VAX/VMS, I figure, was the first "DEC from the ground up" Virtual Memory >System... Quite probably true but it wouldn't surprise me to find an -11 operating system with VM. One of the things to consider is that to do VM "properly" the hardware has to support it. Everyone remembers that the Atlas was the first system to have "proper" VM don't they. Articles on Atlas should be compulsory reading for CS students to show that most things had been invented a long time ago. I find it amusing to read all the fuss on I2O when CDC had this sort of thing 25 (30?) years ago... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Mar 17 21:44:44 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803180344.WAA16267@webern.cs.unc.edu> Doug Yowza wrote: ] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For ] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an ] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this that would lack precision. OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer? I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding. Bill. From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 17 22:13:21 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <199803180344.WAA16267@webern.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Doug Yowza wrote: > ] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For > ] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an > ] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much > > Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above > is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is > again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this > that would lack precision. Argh, semantics. OK, how about "a binary representation of the *result* of the expression 1.0/3.0 will always be an approximation." And "an analog representation of the *result* of the expression 1.0/3.0 *can* be exact." For example, I could build an analog (i.e, continuous valued) machine whose ALU performed division by pouring water from one glass into another (in a loss-free vacuum chamber if you'd like). The glass/water accululator would be exactly 1/3 full after the above calculation. Makes you thirsty just thinking about it, doesn't it? :-) > OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer? > I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all > of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just > performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with > sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a > calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding. Wasn't Babbage's engine mechanical? Mechanical computers are still "digital" in the sense that they compute using discrete values/states. Here is an example which proves that analog machines can execute stored programs: "go to the store." If you remembered that and went to the store, then you just answered your own question. (If you didn't go to the store, you have a bug. :-) -- Doug From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 17 22:23:36 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: This message is directed to those individuals who care that this mailing list has slowly degraded into a usenet newsgroup. The rest of you can continue to be unconcerned and skip this message. Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either ridiculed or ignored. Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and respect. In my normal life, I make it a point to break the rules and live against convention. I can do that without disturbing the rest of my fellow humans because the impact of my actions doesn't reach very far. Plus I don't flout convention just to flout convention, thereby inconveniencing others. However, in this tight-knit community where the slightest ripple builds into a wave and then a tsunami, it is not appropriate to continually transcend the intended use of this forum for one's own personal amusement. When you're in close quarters, you don't fart unless you're an asshole. The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably. It used to be that Bill screened participants before they were allowed to join, thereby filtering out the potential riff raff. The community we used to have, although semi-exclusive, did produce some excellent discussion material. However, now that Bill has fallen off the face of the earth and just about anyone with half a brain can join, a good majority of the discussion at times is off-topic and boorish. The worst case is the one-line reply to the hundred line quoted message. It used to be fun to read about classic computers. Now its pretty lame reading about [insert off-topic shit here]. I think the best approach to this would be to let this stupid mailing list die out and start an alternate forum. So I'm going to do just that. I'm beginning work on a web BBS which will have multiple topic areas. It will be semi-moderated and any inkling of off-topic blather will be expunged promptly. Better yet, I may even decide to turn it into a classic BBS running on a classic system (I can resurrect the never finished BBS software I was writing on my Apple //e). That way, those interested in joining will have to take some effort to do so, which will eliminate the casual turd. I'll let interested parties know when this is completed and ready for beta. Please e-mail me (need I add "privately"?) with any tips or suggestions you may have. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From spc at armigeron.com Tue Mar 17 22:19:44 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <199803180344.WAA16267@webern.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Mar 17, 98 10:44:44 pm Message-ID: <199803180419.XAA03168@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Yakowenko once stated: > > OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer? > I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all > of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just > performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with > sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a > calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding. Several years ago I had the pleasure of seeing an actual analog computer. The professor I worked for (a clinical psychologist working in the math department at the university I attended - it's best not to ask 8-) aquired it for his research into chaos theory. It was a rather large beast, something like 8' high, 10' long, 5' deep, weighing on the order of a ton or two (I don't recall the make or model - it has since been scrapped). Each program was stored on a board some 5'x4' using patch wires. The board was the front of the computer and the particular model we had had three boards that could be "programmed" although only one program was written for it during the time the professor had it. Not sure if this fits the bill though. -spc (Real cool once it worked) From danjo at xnet.com Tue Mar 17 23:14:39 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well Sam - you know me 8-) I will reserve judgement for the moment. Most of what you said - I agree with - How you said it - well... BC From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 17 00:30:53 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803180528.PAA22066@arthur.merlin.net.au> I work in AI from the philosophical side, so I might be able to help here. >I just caught the end of that special. I didn't realize that interest in AI >had expired. Not at all. But there were some problems with teh aims and the possible realisations. Specifically, the dream of making a computer that could converse, as per the very foolish Turing Test, has appeared to be further away than ever. The original dream ran up against the sheer complexity of the problem, and the way in which the architecture that was being employed - basically there was a brute strength attitude, which was not successful. What is needed now is a new direction, which is being provided in a number of different areas - most notably from Daniel Dennett's COG. The one of the big problems was what is know as the Frame Problem of AI. It's not fitting to explain it here, but in essence the problem is that it takes time to catalogue the things which are not relevant, as well as those which are. Thus a computere faced with a problem would have to spend most of it's time working out what is irrelevant - severly limiting it's ability to solve anything. There are a lot of other problems, such as the distinction betweem implicit and explicit memory, but the upshot is that the old methods failed, and the new are still being developed. >Was there just no demand for AI, or has the market just taken the useful >aspects and abandoned the remainder? Isn't the Neural Net technology being >used in various pattern recognition applications (i.e. OCR) descended from >the AI research of the the 70's and 80's? The useful bits are being employed widly - fuzzy logic in toasters, expert systems all over teh place, OCR stuff, the military make extensive use of neural nets in the development of new missile technologies, etc. It has neither been given up, nor proven useless - it's just that we aren't going to be passing the Turing test for a while yet and, even if we do, it will prove nothing. Adam. From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Mar 17 00:32:40 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803180530.QAA22315@arthur.merlin.net.au> >"We are a lot closer to being able to create an artificial human than we >are to being able to comprehend the consequences of creating an >artificial human." > >I realise that this is not *directly* about +10 year old computer systems, >but it does directly relate to the them and their role in the history of >this field (which is what I originally asked the list about). Does anyone >on the list want to take it outside to a temporary list to discuss the >moral/ethical/probability issues of artificial life? Let me know by >email and I'll set one up. If you choose to set one up, this is what my thesis is all about - the moral status of such AI systems should they ever be created. :) Adam. From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 17 23:35:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade In-Reply-To: <199803180419.XAA03168@armigeron.com> Message-ID: My IMSAI-related goodies arrived in the mail today. A Vector Graphic PROM/RAM board, 36" 26 conductor ribbon cables with connectors (front-panel cables?), 8 unused 1702A EPROMs, an IMSAI customer service invoice for 1 MIO Chapter (?), IMSAI Nov 1977 Domestic Price List, and a May 1976 glossy IMSAI 8080 catalog. I don't recognize the chips on the PROM/RAM board. There's some 74LS stuff and 8 2102L1PC. I assume this is static RAM? I'd like to keep the paper stuff (advice for preservation solicited), but I don't anticipate getting an IMSAI anytime soon, so any offers for trades on the board/ROM/cables? Old portable related stuff or just plain odd-ball stuff preferred. Thanks, Doug From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 17 19:15:05 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA In-Reply-To: <19980318001532.12756.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980317171505.009fde80@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:15 PM 3/17/98 PST, you wrote: >I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >a feeling it's something else. Ideas? What sort of system are you calling? I've run into a number of older modems that are unable to negociate a connection with the newer (28.8kbps and above) modems. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 00:49:50 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You reveal your true motivations yet again. You're one of the only people on the mailing list who uses foul language. You're one of the only people on the mailing list who directly attacks and insults others. You've been trying to claim control of the list for months and you're simply using the 'irrelevance' as an excuse to do so. You can insult me, threaten me, do what you will. But I won't back down from you and I won't let you go forth unchallenged. And I won't give up. Say what you will, Sam, but I just want you to know that you're wrong...your intention is impure, your motivation is self-serving and I will stand against you. I thought if I ignored you, you'd go away but you haven't. So neither shall I. The problem isn't the quality of the people discussing on the group. The problem is the quality of people, like you, who only want to centralize authority around yourself and see any other situation, even if it is imperfect, as inferior and wherein the only resolution is for you to personally take control so that you may exercise your ill-conceived will. I'm going to retain all my messages so that when you misquote me, which is your only tool to deceptively prove your points, I can come back with my ACTUAL statements and not some twisted version, as I've encountered from you before, filtered through the the marred lense of your bitterness. And...LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR...I will NOT permit you to take this conversation private and will post EVERY SINGLE message that you send to me privately so everyone can see you for who you REALLY are! So don't say I didn't warn you. So let's begin shall we? 1. The only problem with people quality is your own. I don't see anyone else using the word 'a$$hole' in their postings. I don't see anyone else insulting and attacking others just because there is a conversation that they don't find personally interesting! Oh I suppose there's a couple others but you have a special skill at being condescending to others. 2. Who's fault is it that you've apparently never learned to use a delete key? I run down my screen hitting that delete on 50 or 60 messages a day and you don't hear ME complaining about it! 3. The only person making this group like Usenet is you...insulting and attacking others and generally whining and acting like a child when things don't go precisely your way and then assuming that the only way to repair things is to personally control the entire group. We don't have email spam, which is the other Usenet affliction so it's pretty much YOU causing the real problem and NOT off-topic postings in terms of making the group like Usenet. Off-topic postings aren't really a problem if you have the strength of character and wherewithall to ignore them! 4. Go ahead and create your web BBS. I'm sure that everyone will want to take the time out of their busy schedule to go browse your website as opposed to reading the postings in this group as part of their daily email routine. Frankly, I think the hassle will outweigh the inconvience of deleting off-topic postings on the basis of the Subject line. 5. And finally, you've been on this trip for months that the group sucks and the only way to fix it is for you to be in control. I think the only problem with the group that you're trying to solve is that you don't have personal control of it so that it will be subject to your personal whim. In short, YOU have the problem. Perhaps your time would be better spent considering why you feel the need to control everyone else and why you have to call people names and insult them whenever everything isn't exactly how you want it to be...even though the vast majority of other people don't seem to mind the situation and are able to participate in it without verbally abusing others. So basically here's the scoop...say whatever you want to me. I won't back down or give in and if you try to attack my character, then consider that *I'M* NOT the one who wants to destroy the group and take personal control of it! YOU ARE! So I think YOUR character is more relevant to the discussion than is my own. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > This message is directed to those individuals who care that this mailing > list has slowly degraded into a usenet newsgroup. The rest of you can > continue to be unconcerned and skip this message. > > Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to > steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either > ridiculed or ignored. > > Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was > at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and > respect. > > In my normal life, I make it a point to break the rules and live against > convention. I can do that without disturbing the rest of my fellow humans > because the impact of my actions doesn't reach very far. Plus I don't > flout convention just to flout convention, thereby inconveniencing others. > However, in this tight-knit community where the slightest ripple builds > into a wave and then a tsunami, it is not appropriate to continually > transcend the intended use of this forum for one's own personal amusement. > > When you're in close quarters, you don't fart unless you're an asshole. > > The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably. > It used to be that Bill screened participants before they were allowed to > join, thereby filtering out the potential riff raff. The community we > used to have, although semi-exclusive, did produce some excellent > discussion material. However, now that Bill has fallen off the face of > the earth and just about anyone with half a brain can join, a good > majority of the discussion at times is off-topic and boorish. The worst > case is the one-line reply to the hundred line quoted message. It used to > be fun to read about classic computers. Now its pretty lame reading about > [insert off-topic shit here]. > > I think the best approach to this would be to let this stupid mailing list > die out and start an alternate forum. So I'm going to do just that. I'm > beginning work on a web BBS which will have multiple topic areas. It will > be semi-moderated and any inkling of off-topic blather will be expunged > promptly. Better yet, I may even decide to turn it into a classic BBS > running on a classic system (I can resurrect the never finished BBS > software I was writing on my Apple //e). That way, those interested in > joining will have to take some effort to do so, which will eliminate the > casual turd. > > I'll let interested parties know when this is completed and ready for > beta. Please e-mail me (need I add "privately"?) with any tips or > suggestions you may have. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your > criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Mar 18 00:22:42 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin"'s message of Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:33:18 PST References: <19980318013318.26379.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803180622.WAA12184@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Max Eskin" wrote: > No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away > on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some > reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200. This is a Practical Peripherals 2400SA, right? Little white plastic modem with a sloped front with modem-blinkenlights? I think this is the kind of modem that taught me that when they label one jack "line" and the other jack "phone" they may mean it. When I got it wrong the modem behaved as above: it would go off-hook and dial but not connect. Except that they didn't label the jacks on the modem, you had to look in the manual if you wanted to know which was which. But there's only two ways to do it, so put the cable that goes to the wall jack in the *other* modem jack and see if that makes it work. -Frank McConnell From jritorto at tsoft.com Tue Mar 17 21:29:34 1998 From: jritorto at tsoft.com (Jacob Ritorto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: pdp11s, anyone?? Message-ID: <350F3F9E.5D1B5A10@tsoft.net> Hello folks. I just moved into the SF bay area and found myself terribly uncomfortable without my trusty pdp11, which I had to leave in Pennsylvania due to space constraints. I just now subscribed to this list, so I haven't seen any of the messages lately. My question is: Are there any pdp11s being offered for sale/free anywhere near oakland, ca? thanks for any replies. jake From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 18 01:01:25 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: pdp11s, anyone?? References: <350F3F9E.5D1B5A10@tsoft.net> Message-ID: <350F7145.15790EB7@crl.com> Jacob Ritorto wrote: > > Hello folks. I just moved into the SF bay area and found myself > terribly uncomfortable without my trusty pdp11, which I had to leave in > Pennsylvania due to space constraints. I just now subscribed to this > list, so I haven't seen any of the messages lately. My question is: > Are there any pdp11s being offered for sale/free anywhere near oakland, > ca? Sure, there's a little stand at the corner of East 12th St. and 12th Ave. where this dude has been distributing PDP-11s to the poor for years. Welcome to California! -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Mar 18 01:45:27 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980317205318.3b9772ba@ricochet.net> At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old >equipment? In no particular order: Friends and Family (and the companies they work for) Thrift shops Garage Sales Dumpsters Surplus dealers Internet (this list, especially) hamfests/swapmeets/fleamarkets classified ads typewriter/office equipment repair businesses Okay, that's only nine. Sorry. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From maths at cix.compulink.co.uk Wed Mar 18 09:47:00 1998 From: maths at cix.compulink.co.uk (David Mather) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: PN2400SA In-Reply-To: <199803180622.WAA12184@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: Just in case someone in Singapore is interested, we have a complete 4381 P12 system available to anyone who wants to cart it away. It's fully operational - has been running our credit card system for many years but now replaced. If anyone's interested I can give them the full rundown. David From jritorto at tsoft.com Tue Mar 17 22:49:50 1998 From: jritorto at tsoft.com (Jacob Ritorto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: pdp11s, anyone?? References: <350F3F9E.5D1B5A10@tsoft.net> <350F7145.15790EB7@crl.com> Message-ID: <350F526E.D0D1B3B0@tsoft.net> > Sure, there's a little stand at the corner of East 12th St. and 12th Ummm... Assuming you're serious(?), which east 12th and 12th? In Oakland? > Welcome to California! > thanks! jake From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Mar 18 02:05:04 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Chunk-o-FAQ Message-ID: <199803180805.AAA15847@daemonweed.reanimators.org> The other day someone re-posted section 2.8 of the FAQ and I thought it might be a good idea to repost sections 1 and 2 in their entirety, as they address what the list is about and what sorts of traffic are appropriate. I didn't write this. Bill Whitson did, and posted it to the list in early July 1977 (thanks, Bill). All I did was snarf it from http://www.heydon.org/kevan/classiccmp/1997-07/msg00028.html (thanks, Kevan). I have no comment on this. I am merely posting it for the benefit of those who haven't seen it before, and those who have, but (like me) didn't have a copy handy and need a refresher to figure out just what is irritating some folks so. -Frank McConnell --- begin included text --- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. --- end included text --- From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 18 03:19:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: VAXstation $55/OBO In-Reply-To: <199803180805.AAA15847@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: I thought one of you VAX heads might be interested in this (please excuse the formatting): DEC VAXstation 4000 VLC: This is some equipment that is of no use to me and I know nothing about. I don't know if it works, and am selling it as is. Therefore I'm not wanting alot for it ether.______Here is a list of everything that comes with it._____Slimline VS48K case w/PS, motherboard 50pin SCSI on board, video card, misc ports, 6-72pin simm sockets, Main chip# 213415904 TC150HC8CY-0005, No HD.__Storage Expansion case w/PS, TZ30 SCSI Tape drive (installed), No HD.__VT320-CZ Amber monitor(Working)__ECserver 90L+ DSRVG-M w/power adapter___DECXM-M__LK401-AA Keyboard__Coax cable, power cables, misc other cables______________ This equipment sold AS IS. Buyer pays shipping. It should cost in the area of about $35 to ship. PLEASE Serious interested buyers only. For sale by private party (608) 365-6715 [Day] (608) 365-6715 [Eve] myfrendtim@aol.com Beloit, Wisconsin 53511 From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 18 07:08:26 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <00ba01bd526e$ff785bc0$1af438cb@nostromo> Talking about disks for the Mattel Aquarius... Tony wrote... >on one edge. On the 3.5" disk the shutter can be easily opened >accidentally, and more importantly it can spring apart on the inside >edge. [snip/snip] OK, the floppies I have are NOT as described in Tony's last letter. These here disks are 77mm square, and do NOT have a shutter protecting the surface of the disk. I am sure the shutter is not missing; I have 10 disks all the same. From the circular midsection with a rectangular opening all the way to the edge, the access area on this disk looks like a large keyhole. Yet, the style is similar to a standard 3.5" floppy A side-note; these disks are advertised at having 144K unformatted capacity. Those interested can see the disks and drive at... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/aqdisk.jpg http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/floppy.jpg I understand the drive is top-opening, like a CD-player, but I've yet to confirm this. I wonder if anybody knows of any other drives with this mechanism (floppies only!!) Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 08:16:27 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318081627.468f62be@intellistar.net> Mike, I'm in the central Florida area and I've had darned good luck here. In the last couple of months I have acquired; Altair 8800a, IBM 5100, 2 AT&T 3B2s, AT&T 3B1, 2 Tandy 6000s, a bunch of HPs, and two Commodore Pets, etc. I pass up Compaq and KayPro luggables, Timexs, NCRs, and stuff like that *EVERY* day. Even passed up a DEC last week. If you get down this way, I'll give you a tour of some good places to hit. Joe At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > >If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but >I'm no where near qualified to do so. > >Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will >be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old >equipment? > >Thanks - Mike > > From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 18 07:34:58 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: System names References: <3.0.3.32.19980316211436.00b95e30@agora.rdrop.com> <199803171613.KAA20268@mailbox.neosoft.com> Message-ID: <350FCD82.AD505BC1@cnct.com> David Williams wrote: > > On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > > Besides, I name all my machines after > > Sailormoon characters. ------- > > You are one sick puppy. :-) > > I name systems on my home network after ships from different > anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes > from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for > my PDP-11/34 yet. I used to name all of my systems after characters from the Rocky & Bullwinkle show, until I ran out of characters. So I've switched over to the Red Dwarf television show, but I'm almost out of names there as well. Dunno what I'll try next. (Posting from "rimmer"). -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 08:36:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: AT&T Unix PC 7300.... In-Reply-To: <199803172218.RAA18120@shell.monmouth.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318083644.47975782@intellistar.net> $150 seems pretty high to me. I just bought one for $15 but no books. Joe At 05:18 PM 3/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback >> on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Aaron >> >> > >A good place to check is comp.sys.3b1 or comp.sys.att... > >I've heard $150 mentioned a couple of times in the group. > >Bill > >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter@shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 09:37:14 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:47 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318093714.52c79f06@intellistar.net> Sam, At 08:23 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: > Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your >criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision. First, I am replying on the list since this directly affects everyone on the list. If insults and derision is the only response that you can manage then you have defeated yourself. > >This message is directed to those individuals who care that this mailing >list has slowly degraded into a usenet newsgroup. The rest of you can >continue to be unconcerned and skip this message. > >Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to >steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either >ridiculed or ignored. Did you ever stop to think that maybe that's because no one else on this list agrees with *your* version of an overhaul? > >Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was >at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and >respect. Where does "fantasticly cruel insults and derision." fit into that? > >In my normal life, I make it a point to break the rules and live against >convention. I can do that without disturbing the rest of my fellow humans >because the impact of my actions doesn't reach very far. Well this isn't normal life, it's the Internet and your actions reach a lot further. It appears to me that you seem to be determined to "rock the boat" (polite term) just for the hell of it. Plus I don't >flout convention just to flout convention, thereby inconveniencing others. >However, in this tight-knit community where the slightest ripple builds >into a wave and then a tsunami, it is not appropriate to continually >transcend the intended use of this forum for one's own personal amusement. Wow! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! Sam you are one of the main ones responsible for making a tsunami out of a ripple! Everytime someone posts something that YOU consider off topic or that YOU don't agree with, you have to post a long insulting reply. Your replys provoke further replys. If you don't think a posting is relevent then you know where the delete key is. I personally get over 400 E-mail messages a day. I look at everyone of them! If I don't like them I hit ^D and they're gone and that's that. There's no need to make a stink about eveything that you don't want to read or that you disagree with. > >When you're in close quarters, you don't fart unless you're an asshole. You should listen to your own advise! > >The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably. >It used to be that Bill screened participants before they were allowed to >join, thereby filtering out the potential riff raff. The community we >used to have, although semi-exclusive, did produce some excellent >discussion material. However, now that Bill has fallen off the face of >the earth and just about anyone with half a brain can join, a good >majority of the discussion at times is off-topic and boorish. The worst >case is the one-line reply to the hundred line quoted message. It used to >be fun to read about classic computers. Now its pretty lame reading about >[insert off-topic shit here]. I won't bother responding to a this drivel. All I'll say is that if you don't like the topics then un-subscribe from the list. I'm not interested in a lot of the stuff that's posted here but I don't whine about it. > >I think the best approach to this would be to let this stupid mailing list >die out and >start an alternate forum. PLEASE DO!!!!!! So I'm going to do just that. I'm >beginning work on a web BBS which will have multiple topic areas. It will >be semi-moderated and any inkling of off-topic blather will be expunged >promptly. Better yet, I may even decide to turn it into a classic BBS >running on a classic system (I can resurrect the never finished BBS >software I was writing on my Apple //e). That way, those interested in >joining will have to take some effort to do so, which will eliminate the >casual turd. > >I'll let interested parties know when this is completed and ready for >beta. Please e-mail me (need I add "privately"?) with any tips or >suggestions you may have. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your >criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass You forgot "malcontent". Just sign me 'Casual Turd', Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 09:41:03 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980317205318.3b9772ba@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318094103.30877dda@intellistar.net> At 01:45 AM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >>be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old >>equipment? > >In no particular order: > >Friends and Family (and the companies they work for) >Thrift shops >Garage Sales >Dumpsters >Surplus dealers >Internet (this list, especially) >hamfests/swapmeets/fleamarkets >classified ads >typewriter/office equipment repair businesses > >Okay, that's only nine. Sorry. Add government auctions, that makes ten. I've found some great stuff at auctions. Joe From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 18 08:47:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Classiccmp FAQ > PLEASE READ IT ASAP Message-ID: <1998Mar18.094626.1767.89439@smtp.itgonline.com> Kudos to Doug Youza for the Classiccmp FAQ at www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt I downloaded this and read it last night. If you care about this List and have any consideration for those of us who want to talk vintage computer only, PLEASE READ THE FAQ, especially section 2.8 (check your personal drivel at the door). I'm a newcomer to the Classiccmp List and have found that with all the off topic (I hope I haven't been guilty of this, I've certainly tried to be on topic) postings the List is somewhat like a cow pasture, you need to watch where you step. I wade through countless inane, insipid and irrelevant postings. Why? Let's keep on topic and keep personalities off the list and private. Abide by section 2.8 and all of us will benefit. Marty Mintzell From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Mar 18 08:52:23 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Ooops... this Ultrix... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980318065223.00e46210@mail.jps.net> Sorry, I should have clarified. I have Ultrix 4.3 for both VAXen and RISC. Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it'll end up being built around BSD 4.2-4.3, yes? I'm asking because I'll be book-shopping before too much longer, and I've had my eye on the O'Reilly books 'Unix in a Nutshell' and 'Essential System Administration.' Both seem to strike a balance between SCO and BSD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 18 09:08:17 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: handy URLs Message-ID: Now, back to on-topicness... for those of you that collect IBM family one machines, i've found an interesting place with pics, info, and other related links. web over to WWW.CAN.IBM.COM/HELPWARE/VINTAGE.HTML david From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Wed Mar 18 09:33:47 1998 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:31:27 PST." Message-ID: <199803181533.JAA25114@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> In message , aaron @wfi-inc.com writes: > >I just finished watching that Discovery program on Robots and was >wondering if anyone involved in the list has previously/is currently >working in that field I decided to make one of my rare contributions to the list on this topic, but in repect to those who have quite rightly pointed out that this is off-topic, this will be my only posting on the subject. My only excuses are that the work I did in this area started over 10 year ago and the topic at least has some scientific/engineering content in contrast to much of what has filled my mail recently. On people working in the area: While I don't work in Robotics per se and I certainly don't claim to be in the same league as those who were profiled, my doctoral work at Purdue was on machine learning that could well be applied to robotic control. The focus of the dissertation was to present a computational model based on probabilistic automata that had several nice properties. 1) With a suitable source of reinforcement (a teacher), the model was complete in the sense that any probabilistic automaton could be learned. (These were the only proofs in the dissertation.) 2) The model showed (in experiments) about a dozen of the standard properties of classical and instrumental conditioning. As you might infer, the model had both reinforcement and non-reinforcement learning mechanisms. 3) The model could be implemented using a network of neurons that were at least somewhat biologically plausible. Such an implementation exists in the same sense that any real implementation of a Turing machine or a pushdown automata exists. We can have a finite approximation to the model. Unfortunately, after the work served its purpose (getting me a PhD), I haven't really pursued it further. On Turing and his test: On disucssing the Turing test, we must be very careful to remember the intent and interpretation. Even though the process of the test asks if we can distinguish between a human and a machine in a limited context, it in no way suggests that the machine and the human are equivalent. So the test is not and was never meant to be sufficient to identify a machine as having intelligence equal to a human. Further, the test is not and was never meant to be a necessary condition for intelligence. It is also not a definition of intelligence. What Turing argued with the test was that if a machine was not reliably distinguishable from a human in a non-trivial but limited (in time) setting, then we would have to attribute to it some degree of some form of intelligence. It may not be the same form of intelligence as humans and probably won't be the same degree of intelligence, but it would certainly be more intelligent than a toaster. On analog computers: I always feel like the odd man out when I talk about having actually worked with analog computers. In fact my farewall lecture at Rhodes College where I taught for 6 years was on the subject of analog computers. About 20 years ago, my first thoughts about AI were also along the lines of a "stored program analog computer." It's quite possible to imagine what such a concept might mean, but the difficulty is determining what purpose it would serve. Remember that an analog computer is basically a big differential equation solver. We can certainly design it in a way that when certain conditions are reached, we change the equations being solved, but how would we apply that to AI? Also the combination of analog and digital computer was fairly common and called a hybrid computer. EIA was one of the manufcaturers of such beasts. I still have fond memories of the 640/680 I used in college. On Babbage's machines: As has been pointed out Babbage's machines were indeed digital in nature. He used 10 discrete positions on wheels to represent the 10 possible values of a decimal (base 10, not fractional part) digit. In fact, he went to great pains to make sure that he could correct for any errors that got introduced due to mechanical wear. He had no interest in anything approximate in the computational process. Of course, the problem being solved was likely to involve some approximation, usually of a transendental function by a polynomial (at least on the differential engine). Just a few thoughts on a vaguely related topic... Brian L. Stuart From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 18 09:23:00 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980318092300.00bcba60@pc> A good mailing list / BBS / forum / whatever has a benevolent dictator. A moderator. Someone who rules with a light hand, and who has the time and good nature to police unruly threads. A simple solution is to reject the person's message, but this requires human intervention. It's usually pretty easy to shift these mail lists from automatic to moderated, but then there's a posting delay as the moderator approves messages... and I think it's too much to ask for someone to volunteer 10+ hours a week to trim and approve postings. I've always thought a much more sensible approach is the private news server. It allows pruning of unruly threads, either by the reader (ignoring off-topic subjects) or by a B.D. who trims away junk messages. It allows auto-archiving. It doesn't clog mail routes and mail boxes. You can read it with any Usenet news reader, just point to someone else's server. It would be easy to split into .hardware, .software, .culture sub-groups. Wirehead Prime wrote: >2. Who's fault is it that you've apparently never learned to use a >delete key? Uhm, so why did you decide it was useful to include a quoted copy of Sam's post? Excess bytes vex me more than swear words, but almost as much as conspiracy theories. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 18 09:19:52 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980318091952.00bd1100@pc> Sam Ismail wrote: >This may as well be the official location since the "official" location is >inaccessible. I hereby declare Doug's address above the new official web >address since nobody else will. I'll also volunteer to host a copy of the FAQ web page(s). I'll even help edit, write or update it - but you weren't asking for a new maintainer, were you? >B) It doesn't get sent out to new subscribers >C) People ignore it There's a few ways to handle this: send out a subscribe/unsubscribe/FAQ post every month, or put a short .signature on the digest or on every message, for a day once every couple weeks. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 09:50:15 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <199803180528.PAA22066@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Adam Jenkins wrote: > The one of the big problems was what is know as the Frame Problem of AI. > It's not fitting to explain it here, but in essence the problem is that > it takes time to catalogue the things which are not relevant, as well as Hey! A perfect analogy to this mailing list. Who would've guessed this discussion of AI is relevant after all! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 09:51:42 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Altair 8800...why not 8080? Message-ID: How come MITS used 8800 for the Altair and not 8080? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 10:41:19 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: <199803181533.JAA25114@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Message-ID: Ok, so I swapped out the 7474 with a socket (checked) and a 74LS74 and I get the exact same behavior...all the input signals are the appropriate voltages but the outputs are still reversed. This means, of course, that either there are some 'sneaky fast pulses' on one of the input lines or that Q on the 7474, which is connected to pin 2 (not halt) of the 6800 is grounded. I've checked and it's not physically grounded. I'll explain: Is it possible for the 6800 to have an internal problem that would short pin 2 to ground when it's powered on but not when it's powered off? Second question: If the problem is fast sneaky pulses, how do I detect this? What's the easiest way and, barring that, what's the most effective way even if it's difficult? Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 18 10:01:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance References: <3.0.1.32.19980318092300.00bcba60@pc> Message-ID: <350FEFCC.793B9D03@bbtel.com> John Foust wrote: > I've always thought a much more sensible approach is the private > news server. It allows pruning of unruly threads, either by the > reader (ignoring off-topic subjects) or by a B.D. who trims > away junk messages. It allows auto-archiving. It doesn't clog > mail routes and mail boxes. You can read it with any Usenet news reader, > just point to someone else's server. It would be easy to split > into .hardware, .software, .culture sub-groups. Good idea in a way but my days back as a SysOp on my own private Fidonet BBS shows these closed areas/news servers to be VERY boring. The same people write the same things, and it gets extremely predictable. Although there's an occasional email scuffle, open areas that are topic specific seem to work the best. (Just my opinion)-------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 10:55:08 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980318092300.00bcba60@pc> Message-ID: I've deleted many EXCELLENT ideas that John presented. Not because I disagree with them but because I think they stand on their own merit without me ratifying them by quoting them. As for below, I quoted Sam's entire post because the last time I had to deal with him I found that he would twist what he had originally said and what I had said and that people picking up my post but not his assumed that I was the aggressor. Posting unnecessary bytes is the only way to insure that everyone can see what's really happening ...not filtered through someone else's bitterness and foul language. As for conspiracy theories, if Sam's intentions are pure why does he feel the need to preface his announcements of a new discussion group with comments trashing this one? Why not just go off, start a new discussion group and let the cards fall where they may? Because, then, he risks the embarassment that could result if nobody goes to his new group. The only way to insure against that is to do whatever he can to cause the demise of this group. He said himself that he felt it would be best to let this group die. If you have a family member (imperfect analogy but we'll go with it) who is in a bed, perhaps dying, being kept alive by life support...it's one thing to say, "We should pull the plug, let him or her go and go on with our lives." but quite another to say that while poking the poor wretch with a pointy stick or putting a pillow over their face. There's absolutely nothing wrong with him starting a new group. In fact, I encourage him to do so. But to trash this one and insist upon it's destruction is wrong. Especially when he stands to benefit by being in control of the whole enchilada when the dust settles. If he starts a new group and it's run so much better that it becomes more popular and nobody comes here anymore then so be it. But to sit there and say that this group should die because he, personally, doesn't like some of the people here and to make statements insulting anyone who doesn't agree with his point of view is just mean. There's no reason for it and I think it reveals his TRUE motivations. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > Wirehead Prime wrote: > >2. Who's fault is it that you've apparently never learned to use a > >delete key? > > Uhm, so why did you decide it was useful to include a quoted > copy of Sam's post? Excess bytes vex me more than swear words, but > almost as much as conspiracy theories. > > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum > From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Wed Mar 18 10:08:07 1998 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: DG/UX for AViiON AV-400 system? In-Reply-To: <199803180802.AAA07465@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: My brother recently purchased a Data General AViiON AV-400 machine at an auction ($20) It is in a tower case and has 16 MB RAM, 320 MB SCSI hard drive. He was told by someone at DG that it runs at 20 MHz using a Motorola 88000 processor. He was able to get the machine to talk to a PC connected to the com port and it works and comes up with DG/UX Bootstrap version 4.3 error, logical partition not found (or similar wording) Does this mean: (a) the SCSI drive is bad (b) the OS has been deleted And, if (b) how would he get a version of DG/UX or is there another flavor of Unix that would run on the machine? There is very little on the net about these beasts. Any help appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@mcw.edu From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 10:10:47 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980318093714.52c79f06@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to > >steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either > >ridiculed or ignored. > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe that's because no one else on this > list agrees with *your* version of an overhaul? From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 10:12:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > You reveal your true motivations yet again. You're one of the only > people on the mailing list who uses foul language. You're one of the > only people on the mailing list who directly attacks and insults others. From jthiemann at castleton.com Wed Mar 18 10:09:08 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235EE7@dino.castleton.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] > Sent: March 18, 1998 10:23 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance > > I've always thought a much more sensible approach is the private > news server. It allows pruning of unruly threads, either by the > reader (ignoring off-topic subjects) or by a B.D. who trims > away junk messages. It allows auto-archiving. It doesn't clog > mail routes and mail boxes. You can read it with any Usenet news > reader, > just point to someone else's server. It would be easy to split > into .hardware, .software, .culture sub-groups. > A private news server is a Bad Thing for those of us sitting at work with a firewall inbetween ourselves and the net. I do not think I will have much success convincing the firewall admins to allow news traffic to go through. -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 10:25:24 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > As for below, I quoted Sam's entire post because the last time I had to > deal with him I found that he would twist what he had originally said and ...uh huh... > what I had said and that people picking up my post but not his assumed > that I was the aggressor. Posting unnecessary bytes is the only way to > insure that everyone can see what's really happening ...not filtered > through someone else's bitterness and foul language. The message was ALREADY POST PUBLICLY FOR ALL TO SEE you fucking genius! > If he starts a new group and it's run so much better that it becomes more > popular and nobody comes here anymore then so be it. But to sit there > and say that this group should die because he, personally, doesn't like > some of the people here and to make statements insulting anyone who > doesn't agree with his point of view is just mean. There's no reason for > it and I think it reveals his TRUE motivations. Then do something about it and keep your hormonally imbalanced emotional outbursts to private e-mail. P.S. From the ClassicCmp FAQ: 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is not your crusade, Anthony. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adept at mcs.com Wed Mar 18 10:48:19 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (Dan Stephans II) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Ooops... this Ultrix... References: <3.0.3.32.19980318065223.00e46210@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <350FFAD3.D8E37B4@mcs.com> It is purely 4.2BSD with munges. I would recommend the Red Book by (System Administration Handbook, Second Edition) by some folks at the University of Colorado as a very good introduction to system administration. It comes with a CD with some outdated tools on it too. ;) Dan Bruce Lane wrote: > Sorry, I should have clarified. I have Ultrix 4.3 for both VAXen and RISC. > Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it'll end up being built around > BSD 4.2-4.3, yes? > > I'm asking because I'll be book-shopping before too much longer, and I've > had my eye on the O'Reilly books 'Unix in a Nutshell' and 'Essential System > Administration.' Both seem to strike a balance between SCO and BSD. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 18 10:46:04 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: FAQ and the re-mailer Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980318104604.009887b0@pop3.webzone.net> Would it be a) desirable, b) possible to have the remailer append a very short text to each outgoing message with "Read the faq: "? This is what Red Hat do with their lists, and it's quite handy. Sure some people ignore it, but it's always there to refer people to--it's in every message in the list and most folk can just cut 'n paste the URL or double-click it to refer the FAQ. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 18 06:03:47 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: VAXstation $55/OBO In-Reply-To: References: <199803180805.AAA15847@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <199803181656.LAA25259@mail.cgocable.net> > I thought one of you VAX heads might be interested in this (please excuse > the formatting): > > DEC VAXstation 4000 VLC: This is some Finally now i have that name to 3 motherboards I have of that kind! Thank you! :) How good are these boards for and how powerful compared to other vaxstation? > equipment that is of no use to me and I know > nothing > about. I don't know if it works, and am > selling it as is. > Therefore I'm not wanting alot for it > ether.______Here > is a list of everything that comes with > it._____Slimline > VS48K case w/PS, motherboard 50pin SCSI on > board, video card, misc ports, 6-72pin simm > sockets, Main chip# 213415904 > TC150HC8CY-0005, No HD.__Storage Expansion > case w/PS, TZ30 SCSI Tape drive (installed), > No > HD.__VT320-CZ Amber > monitor(Working)__ECserver 90L+ DSRVG-M > w/power adapter___DECXM-M__LK401-AA > Keyboard__Coax cable, power cables, misc other > cables______________ This equipment sold AS Excuse me? What is that ECserver 90L? Amber? Are you sure it's amber color not paper white or green and what is viewable size? Thanks! Jason D. > IS. > Buyer pays shipping. It should cost in the > area of > about $35 to ship. PLEASE Serious interested > buyers only. > > For sale by private party > > (608) 365-6715 [Day] > > (608) 365-6715 [Eve] > > myfrendtim@aol.com > > Beloit, Wisconsin 53511 > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 12:08:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980318093714.52c79f06@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318120808.4fbff760@intellistar.net> At 08:10 AM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> >Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to >> >steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either >> >ridiculed or ignored. >> >> Did you ever stop to think that maybe that's because no one else on this >> list agrees with *your* version of an overhaul? > >>From the ClassicCmp FAQ: > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >2.1 What can I talk about? > >Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many >people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might >want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a >good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before >posting. > >Is that clear enough for you? > >Sam It certainly is, I've read it before and so have most of the people on this list but no one else is complaining that the list needs an overhaul. Furthermore, when has anyone been ridiculed for "attempts to steer it back to its proper course of discussion"? 90+% of the ridiculing in this list has come from you. A good example is the message that you posted this morning. Here are some examples just from that one message; "Your criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision." and "The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably.". Then you referred to the people here as "riff raff." and "off-topic and boorish.". Then added ">[insert off-topic shit here]." and to "this stupid mailing list". And to finish it up you then referred to other on this list as ">casual turd.". NO ONE else on this list has EVER posted anything so vulgar, insulting and demeaning as what you have posted in that one message! I for one would never subscribe to any mailing list run according to your "standards"! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 12:13:47 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318121347.250ff62c@intellistar.net> At 08:12 AM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > >> You reveal your true motivations yet again. You're one of the only >> people on the mailing list who uses foul language. You're one of the >> only people on the mailing list who directly attacks and insults others. > >>From the ClassicCmp FAQ: > >2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? > >Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of >people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now >that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > >Is this clear enough for you, virgin ears? > >Sam Earlier Sam said: >Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was >at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and >respect. Is this another example of your idea of courtesy and respect? You seem to demand it for yourself but incapable of giving any to others. Joe Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Mar 18 10:37:43 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: References: <199803181533.JAA25114@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Message-ID: <199803181714.LAA29090@onyx.southwind.net> > > Second question: > > If the problem is fast sneaky pulses, how do I detect this? What's the > easiest way and, barring that, what's the most effective way even if it's > difficult? > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > The best way to trap those 'fast sneaky' pulses is with a good logic probe. I use HP's. They'll detect EXTREMELY narrow pulses that would be virtually *invisible* on even a fast oscilloscope. Jeff From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 12:27:02 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Sam's Outburst was Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318122702.3047a300@intellistar.net> At 08:25 AM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > >> As for below, I quoted Sam's entire post because the last time I had to >> deal with him I found that he would twist what he had originally said and > >...uh huh... > >> what I had said and that people picking up my post but not his assumed >> that I was the aggressor. Posting unnecessary bytes is the only way to >> insure that everyone can see what's really happening ...not filtered >> through someone else's bitterness and foul language. > >The message was ALREADY POST PUBLICLY FOR ALL TO SEE you fucking genius! Hmmm, more of that "common courtesy and respect" that you said we should all have? > >> If he starts a new group and it's run so much better that it becomes more >> popular and nobody comes here anymore then so be it. But to sit there >> and say that this group should die because he, personally, doesn't like >> some of the people here and to make statements insulting anyone who >> doesn't agree with his point of view is just mean. There's no reason for >> it and I think it reveals his TRUE motivations. > >Then do something about it and keep your hormonally imbalanced emotional >outbursts to private e-mail. Since you posted the topic publicly, it should be answered publicly. Especially since it concerns to operation and possibly existance of this mailing list. > >P.S. From the ClassicCmp FAQ: > >2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! > (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) > >Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop >any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >This is not your crusade, Anthony. You're the only one that seems to be on a crusade! A crusade to destroy this mailing list! If you're so unhappy with it and the people on it, why don't you unsubscribe and go start your own? Joe From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 18 11:43:11 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: A House Divided Against itself... Message-ID: <01bd5295$51cdf9e0$LocalHost@hotze> Don't forget the above phrase. It CAN'T stand. Make no mistake. Sam, you've made some mistakes. LETS NOT LOSE ANY MEMBERS OVER THIS. IT'S IMPORTANT, AT LEAST TO ME. I KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM, BUT I WANT TO BE A GREATER PART OF THE SOLUTION. Tim D. Hotze From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 12:38:57 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It also doesn't prohibit discussions about reminscing etc. But you've railed against that in past. Why are you so tolerant of bad language but not reminiscing when you use bad language but don't reminisce? I would think that, if you were reasonable and your intentions were pure, that you'd give others the same latitude that you give yourself. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > > You reveal your true motivations yet again. You're one of the only > > people on the mailing list who uses foul language. You're one of the > > only people on the mailing list who directly attacks and insults others. > > >From the ClassicCmp FAQ: > > 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? > > Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of > people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now > that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > > Is this clear enough for you, virgin ears? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 18 11:50:06 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: More: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980318115006.0080c100@pop3.webzone.net> I would think that constructive suggestions would accomplish much more than flame bait like calling folk "turds". Suggestions: Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of the topics discussed here. Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant reminder. Experienced users tend to ignore belligerent posts rather then respond to them and waste time with pointless arguments. A gentle reminder to read the FAQ will often suffice. Finally: moderate, or get off the pot. Have you ever been a member of a committee without a chairman? Can you say: slugfest? -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From jharper at bs2000.com Wed Mar 18 11:41:49 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980318094103.30877dda@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.16.19980317205318.3b9772ba@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> Hello to the Classic Computing List -- this is my first post and I am very glad to have found your group. Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. With luck, I hope to get this beast back to life -- it apparently worked prior to being shipped to me (by truck) but I obviously expect some problems. Does anyone on the List have any experience or have any available spare parts or documentation -- or, most important, actual experience with Symbolics lisp machines??? My own personal background -- 25-years programming in Lisp with, oddly, none whatsoever with *real* lisp machines. I started with Lisp 1.5 on the Univac 1108 back in 1971 and have worked with the usual variants ever since -- Common Lisp(s), other 1.5's, etc. I am slowly building an 'Ancient Lisp' web page (http//www.bs2000.com/talos/7090.htm is the beginning) that will, hopefully, document as fully as possible the earliest days (1956-1963) of Lisp with McCarthy and the other pioneers. The page is, at the moment, a description of the IBM 7090 series of mainframes (709 too) which is where Lisp was first born/evolved. BTW -- The Symbolics 3650 is fairly large box -- 3' tall, 1.5' wide, 4' deep (about) -- the thing weights several hundred pounds. Regards -- and I certainly appreciate any feedback. Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 12:44:10 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Sam, for again proving your true intentions toward the group and demonstrating exactly what I've been saying about you. You know, it's kind of fortunate. I don't really have to fight you at all...given enough rope, you seem incapable of not making a noose out of it and putting it around your own neck. I appreciate the assistance you give me in showing that you have nothing but malice toward the list and those in it. If you want to go start your own group, go ahead. I don't think you'll be greatly missed. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > > As for below, I quoted Sam's entire post because the last time I had to > > deal with him I found that he would twist what he had originally said and > > ...uh huh... > > > what I had said and that people picking up my post but not his assumed > > that I was the aggressor. Posting unnecessary bytes is the only way to > > insure that everyone can see what's really happening ...not filtered > > through someone else's bitterness and foul language. > > The message was ALREADY POST PUBLICLY FOR ALL TO SEE you fucking genius! > > > If he starts a new group and it's run so much better that it becomes more > > popular and nobody comes here anymore then so be it. But to sit there > > and say that this group should die because he, personally, doesn't like > > some of the people here and to make statements insulting anyone who > > doesn't agree with his point of view is just mean. There's no reason for > > it and I think it reveals his TRUE motivations. > > Then do something about it and keep your hormonally imbalanced emotional > outbursts to private e-mail. > > P.S. From the ClassicCmp FAQ: > > 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! > (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) > > Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop > any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > This is not your crusade, Anthony. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 18 12:03:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <13340705320.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Symbolics 3650] Was that the LISPMs that lived at MIT? ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 18 12:16:40 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues Message-ID: <199803181816.AA03614@world.std.com> > <> If the problem is fast sneaky pulses, how do I detect this? What's the <> easiest way and, barring that, what's the most effective way even if it <> difficult? <> <> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead Cheat, lift (bend) the D input pin so it's not in the socket and pull it up to +5v through a resistor (1k-or most anything). lacking that let it float unconnected and see what the output does. Guarentees a logic one in and Q=1 out. Allison From lfb107 at psu.edu Wed Mar 18 12:18:27 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> I think we all need to take a step back, grab a few drinks, and try and look at what's going on here. So far, everyone has had some valid points. If we interpret the FAQ literally than perhaps Sam is right. I would tend to believe, however, that Bill Whitson's original idea was to have "liberal" restrictions on the group so as to perpetuate discussion of "classic" computers. Not all posts have adhered to the exact words of the FAQ. Some examples might be posts on logic probes or on "orphaned" machines that aren't necessarily 10 years old. The idea behind these posts is that it might be something that interests people who like to talk about classic computers or that this mailing list might actually be the best place to get info on that topic. There are noted exceptions of course, but I think that what would be best would be to ignore these posts and just delete them as was earlier suggested. I guess the main thing I'm trying to say is that the FAQ should'nt be treated as gospel but as *general* guidelines that should (normally) be adhered to. This means that instead of launching inquistions against people who may post off topic, a "Hey, please try and stay on topic for now on, but, yeah, I don't like AIWA CD players either" would be nice. There really is no need to attack poeple either. We all have our "allegiences" and we've all probably have had some kind of altercation with Sam in the past but I really think that we shouldn't take all this THAT seriously! Sam has called me an ass recently too. SO WHAT? I sent an e-mail back to him and called him an asshole too. CASE CLOSED. We're ALL assholes to some degree but when it comes down to it, if I need help putting an Apple II back together (something I know NOTHING about) than Sam is here to help. So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! Thanks, Les lfb107@psu.edu From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 18 13:01:59 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> from "Jack Harper" at Mar 18, 98 10:41:49 am Message-ID: <199803181901.LAA23738@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/b8495653/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 18 13:03:38 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <13340705320.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 18, 98 10:03:02 am Message-ID: <199803181903.LAA23965@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/7e517c06/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 18 13:14:47 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: .LZ compression?? Message-ID: <199803181914.LAA24237@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1205 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/c6309875/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 13:54:53 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: Now, you're a guy with a balanced attitude. Good post. You're right. The list isn't going anywhere. I like everyone here and think the list is wonderful (with one exception). This list has some of the most intelligent, motivated, interesting people I've ever seen. I sit in awe of some of you folks that collect the really big iron or those of you that seem to come up with cool computer after cool computer. I really do love this list. I left the list for two months there in December and January due primarily to my last altercation with you know who. But I came back because everyone else makes up for it a million times over. And, come on, even the off-topic stuff isn't THAT off-topic! In Usenet, in every newsgroup you get spam about this or that goofy product or postings like "Stop the War in Iraq". At least our off-topic posts are still generally about computers. To be honest, having seen some of the postings today...I feel a bit like I'm shooting ducks in the barrel. When you accuse someone of foul language and they respond with foul language...well, what am I supposed to do with that? If everything was that easy, we wouldn't even need juries...everyone would just walk in and, in response to the accusation of murder, run at the judge with a knife and scream, "I'm gonna kill you!" I've gotten several private emails from individuals praising me and several more suggesting that what I'm doing is pointless even though they dont' disagree with me in principle and a few more saying they understand my viewpoint but disagree with my approach...but nobody's sent me an email saying "Leave Sam alone! He's a nice guy and he's completely right and you're completely wrong to be angry about his behavior!" Basically, today has shown me that I'm preaching to the choir. I didn't realize it until now I guess. I guess I was concerned that his idea of shutting down the list and taking control of it might have a following I hadn't detected but that's obviously not the case. Clearly most people are happy with the group and I see no reason that it won't continue for a long, LONG time to come. We're a LONG way from being as bad as Usenet in terms of off-topic postings! So rather than trying to trash what works we should count our blessings I think. But it's obvious that nobody wants to trash this group despite the rantings of someone who's demonstrated better than I possibly could where the truth really lay. I think this list is GREAT and love the conversations, off-topic or on-topic. I may delete 50 messages but only because I'm interested in something else not because I find them offensive or annoying. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: I didn't think my logic probe questions were off-topic since they related DIRECTLY to the repair of a truly classic machine...an SWTPC 6800 Micro circa 1975. Not that you were accusing me but I don't want you to think that it was off-topic. On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Les Berry wrote: > > I think we all need to take a step back, grab a few drinks, and try and > look at what's going on here. > > So far, everyone has had some valid points. If we interpret the FAQ > literally than perhaps Sam is right. I would tend to believe, however, > that Bill Whitson's original idea was to have "liberal" restrictions on > the group so as to perpetuate discussion of "classic" computers. Not all From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 18 13:07:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Hey! A perfect analogy to this mailing list. Who would've guessed this > discussion of AI is relevant after all! > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Surely you, a self-proclaimed computer historian, can see the relevancy of this thread. First, what computer is more classic than the brain :-) And what is it that makes a machine interesting from a historical perspective? For me, a rank amateur and newby collector, it's finding/discussing machines that represent a fork in the evolutionary road. I'm interested in the evolution of processor architecure, system architecture, OS architecture, and form factor. Perhaps a real computer historian can chime in here, but I vaguely recall that there was considerable experimentation and debate early in the development of electronic computers along the lines of analog vs. digital, von neumann vs non-von, analogies to electronic brains, etc. Today, we're sitting at a local minima in computer design, and it seems very few people think of computers as anything but simple fast scalar von neumann machines. We know that's not how the brain works, so it's interesting to look at machine architectures that tried to emulate the brain (at least a little bit). It's also reasonable to ask if "analogness" might enable any problem solving abilities that "digitalness" can't handle. I think the results of Turing's work on computability is important for any wanna-be computer architectect if for no other reason than these results allow you to safely ignore the possibility that, analog machines, for example, might possess some hidden capability that digital machines don't. Now back to your regularly scheduled program of VMS backup tape storage.... -- Doug From william at ans.net Wed Mar 18 13:12:28 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Toobs! Message-ID: I now have sitting on my desk six modules from an IBM 700 series mainframe, destined for the Mill at RCS/RI. Of course, six modules does not make a computer, but I think we should at least try them out, just to see how badly they perform. Does anyone here have information on these things (pointing my finger at Mr. Pierce)? The things are not on circuit boards, so they could be traced out, but I really do not want to that. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 13:20:38 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Sam's Outburst was Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980318122702.3047a300@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: Joe, you are seriously off topic. For your edification, here's a section from the FAQ to hopefully guide you in the right direction: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. Please stick to the topic at hand and send any gripes you may have to private e-mail. You're making a mess of this place. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From cad at gamewood.net Wed Mar 18 13:25:10 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Sam's Outburst was Re: Irreverence to irrelevance References: Message-ID: <35101F96.59B3@gamewood.net> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > > > > Joe, you are seriously off topic. For your edification, here's a section > from the FAQ to hopefully guide you in the right direction: > > 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > > It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center > on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place > for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions > dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are > often better handled in private e-mail. > > Please stick to the topic at hand and send any gripes you may have to > private e-mail. You're making a mess of this place. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! Sorry SAM!!!! At this point, it's YOU that is out of line. Now if you will just DROP it, things will come to a halt. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 13:36:59 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Les Berry wrote: > So far, everyone has had some valid points. If we interpret the FAQ > literally than perhaps Sam is right. I would tend to believe, however, > that Bill Whitson's original idea was to have "liberal" restrictions on > the group so as to perpetuate discussion of "classic" computers. Not all > posts have adhered to the exact words of the FAQ. Some examples > might be posts on logic probes or on "orphaned" machines that aren't > necessarily 10 years old. The idea behind these posts is that it might Good point. But let me make an example here. And I'll use Tony Duell (my apologies in advance). Tony on content alone is by far probably one of the most on-topic contributors here. He also strays once in a while and posts off-topic. However, his contribution to the discussion far outweighs his occasional drifiting into topics wholly unrelated to classic computers, and that is entirely acceptable. There are many others like Tony here as well. Their contribution adds value to the discussion. Then there are others who have posted more off-topic material than on. What relevant contributions they have made are outweighed by their off-topic drivel. Are you in the former category, or the latter? > I guess the main thing I'm trying to say is that the FAQ should'nt be > treated as gospel but as *general* guidelines that should (normally) be > adhered to. This means that instead of launching inquistions against The problem is that in recent weeks the guidelines have not "normally been adhered to". The guidelines have normally not been adhered to. The solution is that people need to quell their impulse to perpetuate and off-topic thread. Once it goes, to two or more messages, it should be taken to private e-mail. Its not hard. > past but I really think that we shouldn't take all this THAT seriously! Sam > has called me an ass recently too. SO WHAT? I sent an e-mail back to him > and called him an asshole too. CASE CLOSED. We're ALL assholes to > some degree but when it comes down to it, if I need help putting an Apple II > back together (something I know NOTHING about) than Sam is here to help. Exactly. > So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for > an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? > The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! What size are these? I think I know where to get some for cheap. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From szewczykm at hcgi.com Wed Mar 18 13:53:26 1998 From: szewczykm at hcgi.com (Mike Szewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is o Message-ID: > What kind of stores are you hitting that you are having such luck? Today - I stopped into a local pawn shop - a rare place in the suburbs - and picked up an Atari 520ST and an Atari SF354 disk drive sans cables and power supplies. My first pawn shop find. I passed on a IIgs they had, but I was tempted. What I'm really looking for is a IIe. Mike -----Original Message----- From: rigdonj@intellistar.net [mailto:MIME @INTERNET {rigdonj@intellistar.net}] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 7:18 AM To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question for the Faq - If there is one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mike, I'm in the central Florida area and I've had darned good luck here. In the last couple of months I have acquired; Altair 8800a, IBM 5100, 2 AT&T 3B2s, AT&T 3B1, 2 Tandy 6000s, a bunch of HPs, and two Commodore Pets, etc. I pass up Compaq and KayPro luggables, Timexs, NCRs, and stuff like that *EVERY* day. Even passed up a DEC last week. If you get down this way, I'll give you a tour of some good places to hit. Joe At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > >If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but >I'm no where near qualified to do so. > >Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will >be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old >equipment? > >Thanks - Mike > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 14:59:07 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Sam's Instructions in Private Email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam has instructed me now several times in private email to stay on-topic. I won't post his messages, at my prerogative, because I think the intent is pretty clear. Sam, might I remind you that you are not the moderator of the group nor it's operator. You are out of place to behave as a police officer for the group. Other people deciding to let the subject drop is not an invitation for you to take control of the group nor is it a ratification of your point of view. You have only demonstrated that your intentions are not pure, that any point you had was invalidated by your own rudeness and OFF-TOPIC postings and that you are incapable not only of controlling yourself but, by extension, a mailing list such as this. I must insist that you discontinue harassing me via private email and that you re-evaluate the conclusions that were drawn by others so that you can see that others deciding not to bother with you does not indicate that anyone condones or invites your police activities. I gave you fair warning that I would post your private emails and, if they do not discontinue IMMEDIATELY, I will do so in every case so that others can see that you are simply a bully and nothing more. In every case, the behavior for which you are chastising me is specifically PERMITTED in the FAQ. So your efforts demonstrate that you are activing purely on the basis of malice. I will NOT give in to your tactics nor will I tolerate them. I am not a police officer for this list but I do have a right to defend myself against your antics. And I'm not going to permit you to hide the behavior behind private email for your own twisted satisfaction. Sam, "What is done in the dark shall come to the light." Remember that. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Mar 18 14:17:21 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: More: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: David Wollmann's message of Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:50:06 -0600 References: <3.0.5.32.19980318115006.0080c100@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <199803182017.MAA09807@daemonweed.reanimators.org> David Wollmann wrote: > Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c > carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of > the topics discussed here. Seconded. I can think of a few recent threads that might make more sense in a.f.c (or maybe even comp.arch) than here. Oh all right, I'll be openly opinionated: host names, AI, rational numbers, and digital vs. analog computing. My opinions only, if you want to flame me for 'em do it privately. Lest y'all think I'm suggesting exiling some threads to the Usenet/alt-net ghetto: I read a.f.c too, and sometimes browse comp.arch, and would be more inclined to participate in those threads in a.f.c because I do find them interesting or amusing, I'm just not sure they're appropriate for this list. The MIME/HTML vs. plain text e-mail thread is meta-discussion, and its existence makes me wonder whether the FAQ should include a Q&A on list e-mail etiquette, or more properly things to do to get your message read by more people (post as plain text, trim quoted text, format for display on an 80-column terminal screen). For that matter, should the FAQ include references to a.f.c and other Usenet resources? > Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick > the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant > reminder. How about a periodic repost of the FAQ, or parts thereof? Some folks can do e-mail but can't webulate. And having said all these things about the FAQ, I'm willing to do some work on it, like writing updated entries and/or making regular reposts happen. -Frank McConnell From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:00 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27309@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere :> obscure in the settings. :Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a :person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person :individually instead of as a whole. you would, wouldn't you...? *sigh* we used ie4 for all of 2 weeks, and during that time killing html mail entirely was what we wanted. you can, though, turn it on again for individual *mails* in the properties for that mail, whilst you compose it. what you can't do is set it at any grain 'twixt the twain. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:11 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27347@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :> I HATE object oriented stuff. Hate it, hate it, hate it. At least :>in C++, Java, and Visual Basic, which have been my only expoures :>to it. we disagree. there are several flavors (sic) of object-oriented programming, and whilst some of them are the invention of a sick and twisted mind (c++), some of them are just damn fine coffee... ;> visual basic isn't OO, don't be confused. and strongly typed OO systems should probably not be used for anything small or prototypical. however, we'd urge you to take a look at some other object oriented languages. smalltalk, common lisp, self, oberon, etc. *much* nicer. and then grab a forth and roll your own :> :I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for :three years. oh, someone else. we had to do that, thanks to bradford university's oh so wonderful degree course. and to think that the oxonians were moaning about modula-2... we've used vb and java reasonably extensively. both are far too typed. vb doesn't even have inheritance, which renders it pretty much useless. :Ada 95 has a lot of OO features (though you needn't :use it that way). It is my most unfavourite language. Some of us :have described Ada as a read-only language (cf. C as a write-only :language). not even that. it takes up too much space, and the preferred format places variable names in capitals, rendering them almost entirely unreadable. and the OO features are only a glorified type-extension mechanism - oberon's idea, but done by committee in ada95. ada is a disgusting language, not because it is verbose or hard to program, but because it introduces another language - and a vast one at that - without giving anything *new*; it doesn't give value for money. size without content. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:06 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27325@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> max eskin: :a)If you think about it, a neuron in the brain is very much like an :AND gate or a transistor. It has multiple inputs and needs a certain :amount of electricty across them for its single output to go high. erm, yes, but neurons have to also "learn" what inputs should lead to one state in their outputs. they can also connect inputs and outputs as necessary, though we doubt they can reconnect. and that's assuming that the universe is entirely deterministic and humans have no souls. we're atheist, but we aren't willing to go there to stay. :b)I heard that people are working on computers with transistors so :small, they would be affected by quantum laws, and thus be analog transistors are, and always have been, analogue. look inside an old amp if you doubt this. even mosfets are analogue (they apparently have distortion characteristics more similar to valves when used in audio applications - can anyone confirm, express preferences, etc?) - the switching properties are a handy side-effect. quantum effects make transistors unreliable, not [more] analogue. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:18 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: What's with the raw HTML? Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27356@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-17 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :>> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere :>> obscure in the settings. :>Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a :>person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person :>individually instead of as a whole.-- :You CAN. The IE bashing is ill-informed. It's a great product. :However, in specific response to the above, you simply select that :mail is responded to in the format it was sent. Quite simple and :obvious. we road-tested it extensively for work. it isn't a great product, it's an adequate product, and every version has its own little collection of bugs. ill-informed? not when the company's future is riding on it. we'll have to go to ie4 eventually, and it's better than ie3.02, but it is far from great. (however, we'll qualify that. if you use xml, it is great, since it's the only xml browser readily available. other than that...? use netscape instead, it may not be in bed with your desktop but hell, ain't that a benefit...? :> ) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:29 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27391@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :Very interesting. Please elaborate. My reasons for disliking OOP :stems from the fact that a Windows app in C++ is much harder to :understand than one in plain non-oop code. Who started oop anyway? simula was the first oo language, and it was pretty good (except that nobody using it realised what they had :> ). the xerox parc team who developed smalltalk did the real ground-breaking work on object orientation, and anything they wrote (alan kay, adele goldberg are two names to look out for) is worth reading. microsoft have never understood object orientation. and because of this, they have killed it (seen COM? ugh). it's a very powerful technique, and you don't necessarily need an oo language to use it. windows was written in c, designed to be called from c, and not object-oriented in the least. no wonder things are harder to use from c++. and mfc only makes things worse. take a look at nextstep sometime, if you can, to see a better approach. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:40 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:48 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27412@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-16 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :>Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) :What exactly is SNOBOL? The library here has two books on it, I :have looked at both and couldn't really figure much out. as perl is to c, so snobol is to fortran. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:23 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27366@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> spc: :Well, that's because on the VAX (to bring classic computers into :this) had an ENQUEUE and DEQUEUE (I think those are the mnemonics) :instructions which handled double linked lists (of which queues and :stacks can be built out of). *sigh* never mind. did anyone ever use the polynomial evaluators, too? :Why the need for PALcode to do that on the Alpha is a bit odd - all :you really need is an instruction that does an atomic "test and :set" to ensure atomicity (hmmm, it could be that instruction they :added, although it seems strange because DEC Unix supports multiple :CPUs and you NEED that for multiple CPUs). test and set can ensure serialisation, but not atomicity. if the os isn't counting what other processors are accessing its memory, it needs atomicity because the serialisation won't be listened to. however, doubly linked lists are one of a class of things that can be tackled with a two-word compare and swap instruction (as on the 680x0) - see the synthesis description for actual algorithms, url unknown, sorry - which makes them atomic. we'll dig out the pages and post the algorithms if you wish (if they aren't too self-referential). -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:45 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27428@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> lawrence wilkinson: :But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you :have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just :like any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. But :then can an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? probably not, but even if it could, how would you measure it to verify..? the strength of analogue is that it can vary smoothly, so the errors are different in character. sometimes digital is preferable. sometimes analogue is. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 14:19:51 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.../old basics Message-ID: <199803182019.UAA27450@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-17 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk : -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 18 14:20:59 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is o Message-ID: I've never bothered to go into pawn shops for anything because even the most worthless junk is way overpriced. for example, one place had two IBM 5155 machines and wanted $179 each! i bought my two for $10 each, and one was upgraded with a hard drive and expanded to 640k. i've had better luck at thrift stores and primarily at radio rallies, of which one is coming up next month. those are the best places to find old interesting stuff, computers or not. david << What kind of stores are you hitting that you are having such luck? Today - I stopped into a local pawn shop - a rare place in the suburbs - and picked up an Atari 520ST and an Atari SF354 disk drive sans cables and power supplies. My first pawn shop find. I passed on a IIgs they had, but I was tempted. What I'm really looking for is a IIe. Mike >> From DiesIrrae at aol.com Wed Mar 18 14:36:08 1998 From: DiesIrrae at aol.com (Dies Irrae) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: New to List Message-ID: <190eebdd.3510303a@aol.com> Hello, I am new to the list and despite all this nonsencse about some guy named Sam, I am looking forward to gaining knowledge from this list. I currently own an Atari 400, 800, and Mac Plus. Really all I am here for is listening in and to ask a few questions when they arrive to my brain. Later, -Enrique! From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 18 14:34:32 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Does a DHV11 emulate a DH11? Message-ID: <13340732899.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> DHV11 is the Q-bus 8-port MUX. M3107. Does that emulate a DH11? ------- From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Mar 18 14:59:11 1998 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... Message-ID: Hi all. It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't read the list in months and only do basic addition and removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal lives have made it impossible to be any more active with classiccmp. I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much as I'm available. Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll have the time to just read it again. If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else would like to take over with their own listserv, it would be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. If you can live with the current level of administration, I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to make a post of this nature for some time and it never made it high enough up the priorities list. -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 From jthiemann at castleton.com Wed Mar 18 15:10:03 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235EE8@dino.castleton.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk [SMTP:lisard@zetnet.co.uk] > Sent: March 18, 1998 15:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Robots again > > however, we'd urge you to take a look at some other object oriented > languages. smalltalk, common lisp, self, oberon, etc. *much* nicer. > and > then grab a forth and roll your own :> > I have done some lisp, (in (mostly Emacs)), so I'm a bit confused about you grouping Common Lisp with object oriented languages... could you elaborate? I am somewhat amused by your mention of forth. I maintain that HP managed to create a good implementation of an object oriented Forth - RPL. (Maybe they should have called it FORTH 1 +) (Objoke: there is now an object oriented COBOL. It's called ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL (yes, before you flame me there are better ways to increment a variable but I've luckily never had the displeasure of having to use COBOL. (ObCC: but I _do_ have a COBOL interpreter for my C= SuperPET - but I only fired it up once to see if the disk was OK. I also have APL which is _way_ cool.))) > :I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for > :three years. > > oh, someone else. we had to do that, thanks to bradford university's > oh > so wonderful degree course. and to think that the oxonians were > moaning > about modula-2... > I remember the hilarious (mis)feature of Moduala-2's "dual-tasking"... This was the language we had to use for "Intro to Operating Systems"... > ada is a disgusting language, not because it is verbose or hard to > program, but because it introduces another language - and a vast one > at > that - without giving anything *new*; it doesn't give value for money. > size without content. > The going joke is that somwhere inside Ada is a wonderful, small, efficient language screaming to get out... anyone remember who wrote this? -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 16:16:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980318094103.30877dda@intellistar.net> <3.0.16.19980317205318.3b9772ba@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318161655.39e748b8@intellistar.net> Jack, Welcome to the list. > >BTW -- The Symbolics 3650 is fairly large box -- 3' tall, 1.5' wide, 4' >deep (about) -- the thing weights several hundred pounds. > Ohhh! I'll bet your wife will *love* that! Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 18 15:15:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Manchester Mark I Message-ID: <00bb01bd52b3$0cbedae0$72f438cb@nostromo> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/ssem/ssemhome.htm We're coming up to the 50th anniversary of the first program run on the world's very first stored program computer, the Manchester Mark I. I've visited this page a bit, and its quite fascinating. They are running a competitiion for the best program written on this machine by the end of the month - emulators available. With just 6 instruction types, and just 32 words of memory (each instruction takes 16 bits of the 32 bits), no add, no bit shift, and rudimentary branching, you will be sorely pressed for space. But that's just what classic computing is all about. The winner gets to run their program on the reconstructed MkI that will be debuting in a few months. I toyed around with a packer that would let the unused bits of memory hold additional instructions, but found it damn difficult to do in 32 bytes and still end up with more than I started with!!!! The biggest killer for me was no add, no and or xor, and no bit shift! I recommend a visit. Cheers A From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 16:29:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Sam's Outburst was Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980318122702.3047a300@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318162945.39e7cd38@intellistar.net> Sam, Perhaps you have forgotten that YOU started this entire thread! Joe At 11:20 AM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > > > >Joe, you are seriously off topic. For your edification, here's a section >from the FAQ to hopefully guide you in the right direction: > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >Please stick to the topic at hand and send any gripes you may have to >private e-mail. You're making a mess of this place. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From archive at navix.net Wed Mar 18 17:20:52 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: New to List References: <190eebdd.3510303a@aol.com> Message-ID: <351056D3.CE0528E@navix.net> Hello, and welcome to the list! I hope all this clatter doesn't scare you off... normally it isn't like this. This group is normally a great place to get all the information you would ever want. A lot of times, there is discussion about old mainframes, etc., which I personally don't know much about, but many of the members here do. I happen to specialize in the computers that you talked about, and most everyone here also has knowledge on those home computers as well. As far as the recent discussion about "some guy named Sam." -- it'll all be over soon, and hopefully the group with remain.... see, sometimes we get bored with the current discussion on classic computers and decide to drift far away... basically just something to do, but you're more than welcome to start a more on-topic thread! The last three days I've actually just been deleteing everything, because I know I won't enjoy reading about this list in dismay. I sure am glad I saw your post, however, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to welcome you to the group! No one else probably would have either, because their are more important things going on here :-) Anyway, my point is made, and most importantly, welcome to the group, and maybe you- as someone that isn't 'burnt out' will start a fresh new thread! Welcome aboard, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| Dies Irrae wrote: > Hello, I am new to the list and despite all this nonsencse about some guy > named Sam, I am looking forward to gaining knowledge from this list. I > currently own an Atari 400, 800, and Mac Plus. Really all I am here for is > listening in and to ask a few questions when they arrive to my brain. > > Later, > -Enrique! From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 16:37:32 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties whatsoever in its administration. I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to control it for the purposes of ego inflation. I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should remain precisely as it is. That's my two cents worth... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > If you can live with the current level of administration, > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. From jstorm at RFPP.com Wed Mar 18 16:03:13 1998 From: jstorm at RFPP.com (Storm, John) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: RGB monitor Message-ID: <50975206F0B1D111A69E00609715143F01CEBE@MDMSERVER> Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:20:07 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <19980318222007.21357.qmail@hotmail.com> a)This is itself off-topic b)One needs to have some kind of knowledge and ability just to join the list >Well Sam - you know me 8-) I will reserve judgement for the moment. >Most of what you said - I agree with - How you said it - well... PS I hope the new list will be accessible via a classic computer > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 18 16:35:40 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35164baa.7512147@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:41:19 -0600 (CST), you said: > >Ok, so I swapped out the 7474 with a socket (checked) and a 74LS74 and I >get the exact same behavior...all the input signals are the appropriate >voltages but the outputs are still reversed. > >This means, of course, that either there are some 'sneaky fast pulses' on >one of the input lines or that Q on the 7474, which is connected to pin 2 >(not halt) of the 6800 is grounded. I've checked and it's not physically >grounded. I don't remember the original post but; try pulling the chip and bending the Q pin so it doesn't go in the socket. That should give you a (floating) high. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 18 16:40:36 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: RGB monitor Message-ID: <1998Mar18.174014.1767.89696@smtp.itgonline.com> Go to Aple's web site, apple.com, and search in the tech support TIL (technical information library). You'll find everything you need and more... Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RGB monitor Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/18/98 5:02 PM Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar18.170233.1767.32722; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:02:34 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA15182; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:59 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA24642 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:49 -0800 Received: from mdmserver.rfpp ([12.3.100.67]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id NAA16485 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:43 -0800 Received: by MDMSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:03:15 -0500 Message-Id: <50975206F0B1D111A69E00609715143F01CEBE@MDMSERVER> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Storm, John" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RGB monitor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-To: "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:39:29 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: PN2400SA Message-ID: <19980318223931.16808.qmail@hotmail.com> > >This is a Practical Peripherals 2400SA, right? Little white plastic >modem with a sloped front with modem-blinkenlights? Yep >I think this is the kind of modem that taught me that when they label >one jack "line" and the other jack "phone" they may mean it. When I >got it wrong the modem behaved as above: it would go off-hook and dial >but not connect. > >Except that they didn't label the jacks on the modem, you had to look >in the manual if you wanted to know which was which. But there's only >two ways to do it, so put the cable that goes to the wall jack in the >*other* modem jack and see if that makes it work. If it isn't plugged in correctly, I think it says "NO DIALTONE", but I will check ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 17:37:53 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd) Message-ID: Don't say I didn't warn you Sam. I do not see in the FAQ that discussions relating to the operation of the mailing list are off-topic... especially when such discussions are started by you suggesting that the list should die and be replaced by a list under your control. I do see that *BILL WHITSON* is the operator of the mailing list and not you. I am glad to see, at least in THIS particular message, you've discontinued using foul language. Please not, however, in general you post more foul language than I do supposedly off-topic messages. Perhaps you will continue to reduce your use of foul language and add to that the elimination of your harassment of me, insults directed at the mailing list and the discontinuation of your self-appointed police activities. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Wirehead Prime Subject: Re: Sam's Instructions in Private Email Once again, you are egregiously off-topic. Once again, allow me to quote the FAQ so that perhaps you will begin to understand that the message you posted is not acceptable discussion material. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > I gave you fair warning that I would post your private emails and, if > they do not discontinue IMMEDIATELY, I will do so in every case so that > others can see that you are simply a bully and nothing more. From jmg at iac.net Wed Mar 18 16:51:37 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199803182251.RAA05661@mail.iac.net> OK, I've received significant help from list members here in the past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the 80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management _if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier moderation. There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have chimed up. I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... Respectfully, J. Maynard Gelinas > Hi all. > > It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on > classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll > get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't > read the list in months and only do basic addition and > removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal > lives have made it impossible to be any more active with > classiccmp. > > I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever > means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. > > I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much > as I'm available. > > Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I > think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the > initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll > have the time to just read it again. > > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > If you can live with the current level of administration, > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. > > Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to > make a post of this nature for some time and it never > made it high enough up the priorities list. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu > Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 > University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > > > From dar617 at idirect.com Wed Mar 18 13:19:52 1998 From: dar617 at idirect.com (Douglas Rea) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings Message-ID: <001601bd52c1$69a48f80$cf6088cf@ns.idirect.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/tiff Size: 5665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/d2e98a5d/attachment.tif From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Mar 18 16:54:55 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: New to List References: <190eebdd.3510303a@aol.com> <351056D3.CE0528E@navix.net> Message-ID: <351050BF.F3211493@halcyon.com> A reminder to all who run a newsreader with filters (or a kill file). You can eliminate much noise with good filters. I see very few postings from this group with profanity in them, for example, and have added certain keywords to the filters that eliminate postings of undesirable nature or origin. They go directly to the trash. Sure, I may miss something good, but I don't get anything "bad". Dave Cord Coslor wrote: > > Hello, and welcome to the list! I hope all this clatter doesn't scare you > off... normally it isn't like this. This group is normally a great place to get > all the information you would ever want. A lot of times, there is discussion > about old mainframes, etc., which I personally don't know much about, but many > of the members here do. I happen to specialize in the computers that you talked > about, and most everyone here also has knowledge on those home computers as > well. > > As far as the recent discussion about "some guy named Sam." -- it'll all be > over soon, and hopefully the group with remain.... see, sometimes we get bored > with the current discussion on classic computers and decide to drift far > away... basically just something to do, but you're more than welcome to start a > more on-topic thread! The last three days I've actually just been deleteing > everything, because I know I won't enjoy reading about this list in dismay. I > sure am glad I saw your post, however, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to > welcome you to the group! No one else probably would have either, because their > are more important things going on here :-) > > Anyway, my point is made, and most importantly, welcome to the group, and maybe > you- as someone that isn't 'burnt out' will start a fresh new thread! > > Welcome aboard, > > CORD COSLOR > -- > ___________________________________________________ > | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ > | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | > |---------------------------------------------------| | > | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | > |---------------------------------------------------| | > | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | > |___________________________________________________| | > \____________________________________________________\| > > Dies Irrae wrote: > > > Hello, I am new to the list and despite all this nonsencse about some guy > > named Sam, I am looking forward to gaining knowledge from this list. I > > currently own an Atari 400, 800, and Mac Plus. Really all I am here for is > > listening in and to ask a few questions when they arrive to my brain. > > > > Later, > > -Enrique! From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 18 16:55:22 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Bill Whitson wrote: > I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever > means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. <...> > Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I > think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the > initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll > have the time to just read it again. > > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > If you can live with the current level of administration, > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a few issues to a vote. I thought we already decided a couple months back that the definition as it stands in the FAQ of what is acceptable to discuss was appropriate. If there is going to be a need to re-visit this issue every 6 weeks then you may as well call this mailing list alt.off-topic. Here are the issues I propose: 1. The current definition of what is acceptable to discuss in ClassicCmp is fine: YES or NO For reference: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. Well, I guess that sums it up. If we can agree to a referendum on this single issue then we can put it to a vote and see what happens. If a clear majority votes NO then we can vote on a new definition of the FAQ. My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect the guidelines of the existing definition. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 17:56:08 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: <199803182251.RAA05661@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: I think it would be appropriate to have a vote rather than to assign the task arbitrarily to someone. While Bill has the right to handle it however he wants I think the most prudent approach would be to select several nominees and vote for them. Keep in mind that moderation rarely solves the kinds of problems we're seeing but rather creates a hard target for those who would rather insult and criticize others...so that the goal of a malcontent becomes not so much to try to control everyone else but to constantly harass and criticize the moderators. Again, my two cents worth. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list > maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic > posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a > wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier > moderation. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 17:59:59 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Message-ID: Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list is to do anything other than to harass others. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake and the extent to which others should participate in it. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Wirehead Prime Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would be greatly valued by all. Have a nice day! On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties > whatsoever in its administration. > > I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does > not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to > control it for the purposes of ego inflation. > > I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is > clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should > remain precisely as it is. > > That's my two cents worth... > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > > > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > > If you can live with the current level of administration, > > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Mar 18 19:16:23 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Mac hi-res monitor Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980318171623.00945490@mail.wfi-inc.com> Do you still need this thing? At 10:56 AM 2/11/98 EST, you wrote: >yes! i need one! glad to pay shipping to nc. is it available? > >david > > >In a message dated 98-02-10 15:25:34 EST, you write: > ><< Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best > offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or > picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups > ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). >> > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 17:21:34 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Classiccmp FAQ - PLEASE READ IT ASAP Message-ID: <19980318232134.13351.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I'd say we needn't be ashamed of our personalities, this IS a social, not business, list. Does anyone know how many people are on this list? > Let's keep on topic and keep personalities off the list and private. > Abide by section 2.8 and all of us will benefit. > > Marty Mintzell > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Mar 18 19:26:04 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Mac hi-res monitor Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980318172604.00907a10@mail.wfi-inc.com> Aw, damn. Sorry again guys, this was for private E. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 18 17:28:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: RGB monitor Message-ID: In a message dated 98-03-18 16:57:56 EST, you write: << Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm >> i've tried the same thing and get the same results. i have found out there are analogue and digital RGB monitors, but i do not know the difference between the two. can anyone direct us back on topic and explain the difference? From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 18:18:46 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam, if you attempt to take over the mailing list I will proceed in the following manner. I am the sysadmin of a major ISP and so I have the means to carry out the following: 1. I will select a group of individuals who are respected by all and ask them to prepare a set of by-laws. 2. I will prepare an arrangment, with checks and balances to insure against cheating, to tally votes. 3. I will set up a mailing list server, most of which I've already done for other projects. 4. I will put to a vote who the moderators should be and what version of the bylaws will be chosen etc etc etc. I will NOT be in control. To suggest that you will take control of the group, which I've been saying for two days is your entire goal anyway, is absolutely outrageous. You've demonstrated nothing but malice toward everyone who even suggests that your approach should be tempered with reason. I can't imagine how you could be a fair and impartial moderator or how such a group, if moderated or controlled in any way by you, could be anything other than a means for you to stroke your own ego and have victims upon which to rain down inappropriate wrath. Everything that you accuse others of and insist that they stop doing, you yourself do. I do not intend this as an insult but as a statement of fact, which can be proven or disproven in an appropriate manner, but I can come to no reasonable conclusion but that you are actually mentally ill. I can see no other alternative based on your continuously outrageous and consistently malicious behavior wherein your accusations of ill behavior are a precise description of your own behavior. At this point, and I genuinely mean this not as an insult but as a compassionate gesture, I can only say that I feel sorry for you. In light of this I can only implore the current constituency of this mailing list and the powers that be (Bill) NOT to turn over control of this group to you in any way, shape or form. To do so would be like throwing baby chicks to the fox. I have no wish to have personal control of the list in any way shape or form but I will be happy to provide the means for those who would genuinely run the group in the best interests of the group to do so. My ISP has been in business for 4 years and I have a long-term committment to work there and the authority and latitude to allocate resources to an APPROPRIATELY SELECTED group of moderators but only if the bylaws and moderators are chosen by a fair vote. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Bill Whitson wrote: > > > I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever > > means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. > <...> > > Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I > > think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the > > initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll > > have the time to just read it again. > > > > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > > If you can live with the current level of administration, > > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. > > Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a > few issues to a vote. I thought we already decided a couple months back > that the definition as it stands in the FAQ of what is acceptable to > discuss was appropriate. If there is going to be a need to re-visit this > issue every 6 weeks then you may as well call this mailing > list alt.off-topic. > > Here are the issues I propose: > > 1. The current definition of what is acceptable to discuss in ClassicCmp > is fine: YES or NO > > For reference: > > 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > > It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center > on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place > for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions > dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are > often better handled in private e-mail. > > > Well, I guess that sums it up. If we can agree to a referendum on this > single issue then we can put it to a vote and see what happens. If a > clear majority votes NO then we can vote on a new definition of the FAQ. > > My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect the > guidelines of the existing definition. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 18 17:28:47 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980318172847.0086e860@pop3.webzone.net> At 02:55 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a >few issues to a vote. Does that mean that we get to vote only until you "take over ClasscCmp completely?" Who are you exactly? Just curious. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 18:43:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318184317.3a7ff698@intellistar.net> Hi Everyone, I have tried to drop this arguement with Sam but he insists on perpetuating it. It may be embarrassing to read this stuff but it should be kept public since it does concern the operation of this list. Sam is now complaining that this tread is off topic for this list, but he convenently forgets that he is the one that started it! In his latest tirade, Sam has accused me of using this list for profit (I wish!). I should note that selling items on the list is permitted according to the FAQs, and yes I have probably made a grand total of $50 in the last six months (net not profit). Anthony is right, Sam seems to be interested in nothing more than harassing others and tearing down this list. What I would like to know is who appointed Sam to police this list? Joe At 05:59 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the >OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line >here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list >is to do anything other than to harass others. > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > >PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it >does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of >person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games >are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake >and the extent to which others should participate in it. > > ---------- Forwarded message >---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) >From: Sam Ismail >To: Wirehead Prime >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... > > >Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: > > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would >be greatly valued by all. > >Have a nice day! > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > >> >> Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties >> whatsoever in its administration. >> >> I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does >> not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to >> control it for the purposes of ego inflation. >> >> I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is >> clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should >> remain precisely as it is. >> >> That's my two cents worth... >> >> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> >> > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >> > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >> > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >> > If you can live with the current level of administration, >> > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 18 17:51:19 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Pro Anarchia (with apologies to Cicero) Message-ID: <01cf01bd52c8$c01e9b10$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >> My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect the >> guidelines of the existing definition. Inspirational flash....how about everyone else on the list vote by filtering out the off topic stuff. We don't need no stinkin' rules. After all, the early microcomputer days were pure anarchy anyway. Jack Peacock From william at ans.net Wed Mar 18 17:47:38 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I have had it with this group. I am going to ignore any messages I get for a while - later I will check back and if it does not improve, I am out for good. Now I see why a lot of people I know are not on this list. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jmg at iac.net Wed Mar 18 17:52:07 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: (message from Wirehead Prime on Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:56:08 -0600 (CST)) Message-ID: <199803182352.SAA06841@mail.iac.net> I do not _want_ the job, I am simply willing to do it. I would _prefer_ Allison or Tim Shoppa, as I think they have better legacy systems experiance than I. Also, they have been on this list longer than most of us, and seem to have the best detailed technical knowledge of us all. So, if we vote I nominate either Allison or Tim Shoppa (or both), if they're willing to do the job. Of course, the current maintainer is the _best_ choice if he can find the time to help out. Clearly, we are going through a list crisis right now and _someone_ impartial must deal with it. If no one else chimes up I am able to handle the job. I have systems at my disposal which can handle list management, I've been on the list for a good while and know the principle players; I know what the content of this list is like when it's 'going good.' I _don't want_ to 'take over' the list, nor am I in a position to do so. I could care less who runs it as long as he/she is responsible and fair; it would be a big plus if he/she involved him/herself in the discussion regularly as well. I just want my mbox to stop resembling *.advocacy, and *.flame and get back to discussing systems over 10 years old. J. Maynard Gelinas > > I think it would be appropriate to have a vote rather than to assign the > task arbitrarily to someone. While Bill has the right to handle it > however he wants I think the most prudent approach would be to select > several nominees and vote for them. > > Keep in mind that moderation rarely solves the kinds of problems we're > seeing but rather creates a hard target for those who would rather insult > and criticize others...so that the goal of a malcontent becomes not so > much to try to control everyone else but to constantly harass and > criticize the moderators. > > Again, my two cents worth. > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > > > But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list > > maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic > > posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a > > wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier > > moderation. > From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:56:38 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) Message-ID: <199803182356.XAA25206@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-18 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: :>be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old :>equipment? :In no particular order: :Friends and Family (and the companies they work for) :Thrift shops :Garage Sales :Dumpsters :Surplus dealers :Internet (this list, especially) :hamfests/swapmeets/fleamarkets :classified ads :typewriter/office equipment repair businesses perhaps the original requestor was thinking more in terms of geographical areas...? sure, thrift stores, but which are your personal favourites? etc. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:56:43 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <199803182356.XAA25216@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> andrew davie was :Talking about disks for the Mattel Aquarius... yep, they're quick disks. and they probably belong in the same bucket as sinclair's microdrive and phi mag's floopy tape (anyone else remember this one?) - nice tries that just couldn't keep up, either in cost, capacity or genericity. if only our ql's microdrives still worked... they're a lovely little storage mechanism to look at. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:56:49 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <199803182356.XAA25228@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> sam ismail: :Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, :drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. :^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :This is not your crusade, Anthony. no but you have made it yours. you seem to be in the process of perpetuating a holy war all on your lonesome here. please desist. surely, if you have a problem with the posts of individuals, you would be better advised to take it up with them on an individual basis? we have a much longer email winging its way to you privately, but we feel that this should be said in public. it's off-topic, but so be it. and to respond to the only on-topic post we've seen from you so far tonight: no, we don't know why mits used 8800 over 8080, unless it was the simple fear of being sued for copyright violation. that question wasn't settled for a while afterward. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:57:00 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. Message-ID: <199803182357.XAA25246@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-18 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :[Symbolics 3650] :Was that the LISPMs that lived at MIT? CONS and CADR? does anyone have either tech info, or a URL where we can get such info? (what strikes us as amusing is that stallman conceived the idea behind GNU when "ripping off" symbolics software to keep lisp machines in business. ;> is any of the source he generated whilst doing this publicly available?) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:57:11 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <199803182357.XAA25267@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-17 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :[Compact Floppy Disks] :> those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post :Yes. Also used on the Tatung Einstein (now that's a machine I've :not seen mentioned lately), the Oric and probably others that I've :forgotten. oh, the einsteins were cute. :> similar hardware to the memotech, from your description - including that regrettable decision to use the tms9918 for the display. those things are just not *good*... :At one time you could get 3" disks drives for about \pounds 30.00 :in the UK (when all other drives were over \pounds 100.00). I :bought one and put it as a second drive on my CoCo system - the :extra storage was very useful when running OS-9, and it didn't :matter that the disks weren't standard. unfortunately, the cost of other drives (and of disks) plummeted in the uk and the cost of the disks for the 3" remained high. that's probably what killed them, that and the proprietary nature of them (they may not have been intended as proprietary, but they seem to have ended up that way). and we can well believe that they were superior in quality. compared with the modern 3.5" disk, most things are... :Actually the design of the disk is vastly superior to the 3.5" one. :The metal shutter on the 3" disk is inside the case and is opened :by a slider on one edge. On the 3.5" disk the shutter can be easily :opened accidentally, and more importantly it can spring apart on :the inside edge. we've travelled that road... :One thing that people didn't like about the 3" disks was that they :were flippies - you turned them over to read the second side - at :least on most Amstrad machines. But there are real 2-head 3" drives :- I have some, along with the manual. not the one that was the second disk on a pcw8512. that was 80-track double-sided. what people *really* didn't like about them was paying 3 quid for a disk when they could see 3.5" disks around for 3 quid for a box. that'd annoy us, and amstrad weren't really clued up to it. :A TI 9927 (I think - the PAL version of the 9918) video chip + 16K :video memory *shakes head again* -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 18 18:58:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Seriously off-topic Re: Pro Anarchia (with apologies to Cicero) In-Reply-To: <01cf01bd52c8$c01e9b10$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980318185859.4f0771de@intellistar.net> At 03:51 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >>> My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect >the >>> guidelines of the existing definition. > > >Inspirational flash....how about everyone else on the list vote >by filtering out the off topic stuff. We don't need no stinkin' >rules. After all, the early microcomputer days were pure >anarchy anyway. > Jack Peacock Great idea! I'll kill-file everything from Sam, Sam can kill-file everything from Anthony, Anthony can kill-file ------. Pretty soon there won't be any disscussions. If there are no discussions there won't be anything for anyone to disagree with. Joe > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 18:50:20 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd) Message-ID: And you are again harassing me because your interpretation of the FAQ in this case is inconsistent with reality. And don't think I don't know what you're trying to do...you're trying to force ME to waste bandwidth publicly to make it appear that *I'M* the problem and not you. Anybody with half a brain can see right through your ploy here, Sam. I've read it and I'm NOT off-topic as this discussion and similar ones relate to the operation of the group and that is not forbidden in the FAQ. You want to play this game then I can play FOREVER. As I said, I won't back down from you. EVER. I will construct auto-responders if necessary but here's the deal: I let you have the last word in December thinking that you'd leave people alone but you're obviously too much of a bully for that. So this time, rather than bury my head in the sand [and let me make this abundantly clear] I WILL NOT BACK DOWN FROM YOU. I will NEVER give into your bullying. You can stop this and you should since YOU are the aggressor not me. I am acting from a defensive posture and I think everyone can see that. And, although I'm sure many find this game annoying, I'm certain that even those who would have criticized me earlier for standing up to you realize precisely what you are and no longer blame me for not backing down. And just so this is clear. I would prefer that Bill remove us BOTH from the mailing list permanently than permit you to have your wicked way with the group. But make no mistake...YOU ARE THE AGGRESSOR Sam. But if it takes Bill removing us both from the list forever, then I would consider that a SMALL price to pay to rid the mailing list of your vile insults and the pestilence of your malicious intentions. You are clearly suffering from mental illness and I feel sorry for you but I cannot permit you to abuse me, harass me or send me what amounts to unsolicited email spam without making the entire mailing list aware of it. Why do I do this? Because you've stated yourself you want to take over the mailing list (which I said was your goal all along) I think your behavior has GREAT bearing on your ability to actually moderate a group without it becoming a fiasco. To everyone that this annoys, I am truly sorry. I didn't want it to come to this. But I clearly have no choice but to continue standing against Sam. If you want to solve this particular problem then please and BY ALL MEANS suggest that Bill remove BOTH me and Sam from the list...Sam because he is an aggressor and me because I'm no longer in a position where I can back down. And I think that solution would satisfy everyone's sense of fairness. And remove us BOTH forever. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:43:08 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Wirehead Prime Subject: Re: Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd) You have again posted an off-topic message. I will again send you the relevant portions of the FAQ. Please print a copy out and paste it to your wall where you can see it at all times. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 18 18:12:07 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card Message-ID: <199803190012.QAA31276@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 841 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/c132fb01/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 18:53:28 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Message-ID: And again, here is a mildly edited version of your harassment for the entire group to see. I may be foolish for standing up to you but you're more foolish than me for proving correct everything that I've said about you. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Wirehead Prime Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Again, for your information, here is the FAQ which outlines what is acceptable for discussion on ClassicCmp: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 18 18:09:36 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <351a602b.12760780@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:18:46 -0600 (CST), you said: >In light of this I can only implore the current constituency of this >mailing list and the powers that be (Bill) NOT to turn over control of >this group to you in any way, shape or form. I believe that I have no right to turn over control as I am not in control. Bill Whitson is in control and I will respect (only) his decisions. This is HIS list to do with as he sees fit, my choices are to stay/read or to leave. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 13:54:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: <199803181816.AA03614@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 18, 98 01:16:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1014 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/1085b854/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 13:47:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: from "Wirehead Prime" at Mar 18, 98 10:41:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3161 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/69e8e352/attachment.ksh From jmg at iac.net Wed Mar 18 18:20:35 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803182356.XAA25216@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Message-ID: <199803190020.TAA07307@mail.iac.net> > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:56:43 GMT > From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) > > yep, they're quick disks. and they probably belong in the same bucket as > sinclair's microdrive and phi mag's floopy tape (anyone else remember > this one?) - nice tries that just couldn't keep up, either in cost, > capacity or genericity. > Re: phi mag's floppy tape: Didn't this resemble that old TRS-80 hack the 'stringy floppy'? I used to have one of those when I was a kid (the TRS-80 Stringy Floppy before I could afford a real 5 1/4" drive), and still remember it fondly. It was a pretty cool little unit. For those who don't remember, it was a high speed tape drive which used closed loop tape cartridges similar in concept to 8 track tapes, though much smaller. Each tape could store up to 50k as I remember, with load times under a minute. This was _impressive_ if you were used to cassette tapes! BTW: anyone remember who the manufacturer of the Stringy Floppy was? --jmg From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 19:10:04 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:49 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Message-ID: And again, here is the message forwarded to the group. You have the power to stop this Sam....all you have to do is stop harassing me. I am acting in a completely defensive manner which means the balls in YOUR court here. We can go on like this until we're both removed from the list. And if I alone am removed then I can only hope that someone else will step up to this particular plate. At this point it's just a matter of which of us gets bored with this game first. But I think everyone can see that I'm between a rock and a hard place here. I can't give in because I said I wouldn't. My hands are tied. But you have an opportunity to be the big man here and stop harassing me. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Wirehead Prime Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Once again, you've posted an off-topic message to the mailing list. Here is the FAQ, once again, in the hopes that this time you will choose to abide by it rather than flout it out of selfishness. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. From peacock at simconv.com Wed Mar 18 18:28:33 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card Message-ID: <021b01bd52cd$f3114310$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >I've got a quick question for everyone first. Can a KZQSA-SF (SCSI) >and a KFQSA-SA (DSSI) controller live peacefully together on the same >Q-BUS, or must I dump one to use the other? > Pretty sure you can use both, however, if I recall the KZQSA VMS driver only supports cd-rom and tape drives, not SCSI disk drives. What you probably need is a 3rd party Q-Bus SCSI disk controller that emulates an MSCP type controller card, looks like a RQDX3. Jack Peacock From red at bears.org Wed Mar 18 18:21:39 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: RGB monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, SUPRDAVE wrote: > > I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it > > into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. > > Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on > > Apple monitors. > > i've tried the same thing and get the same results. i have found out > there are analogue and digital RGB monitors, but i do not know the > difference between the two. can anyone direct us back on topic and > explain the difference? AFAIK the main difference between the IIGS and Mac RGB monitors is that the Mac monitor uses a 31 kHz horizontal refresh while the IIGS requires a 15.5 kHz horizontal refresh. This is what I vaguely recall from older discussions on the list, anyway. ok r. From adept at mcs.com Wed Mar 18 18:31:05 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (Dan Stephans II) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC 1 Drive C: Message-ID: <35106749.D51BA821@mcs.com> I just acquired a couple of Osborne 1's and one of the two of them has a Drive C: in it. I got some docs with the boxes but nothing describing this exciting little add-on. I've scoured the classic computer mailing list archives and I've found a previous question (from may of last year) on just this topic, unfortunately nobody really knew anything then. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Cheers and thanks, Dan ps -- I'm currently in dire need of a CRT for a TRS-80 Model 12. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 18:32:07 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <19980319003208.7893.qmail@hotmail.com> Is there a way to transfer files from an Apple II to a PC? I have a //c. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 12:47:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 17, 98 11:35:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/05672ea7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 12:45:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Mar 17, 98 08:23:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2675 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/58015853/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 12:27:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 17, 98 10:13:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1706 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/e52cb525/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Mar 18 18:48:31 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401C78E71@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: 1. Serial transfer 2. Obtain an "Apple II-on-an-ISA-card" device (rare, no longer manufactured, various brand names) 3. If you have access to a Mac, and have a 3 1/2" drive on the Apple II, you can transfer the disk files to ProDOS format and read them via the Macintosh, then either write them to PC format with a Mac SuperDrive, or read the Mac disks on the PC with the various utilities available. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 4:32 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple - PC > > Is there a way to transfer files from an Apple II to a PC? I have a > //c. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From emu at ecubics.com Wed Mar 18 19:18:35 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card Message-ID: <19980319010732.AAA1756@1Cust145.tnt13.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Seth, ---------- > From: Seth J. Morabito > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card > Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 5:12 PM > I've just acquired a MicroVAX 3800 (KA655-AA CPU), with various extra > bits and pieces. I know this is not _technically_ classic, but it > almost is... and heck, any QBus equipment feels pretty classic to me :) Lucky ... > > It has the factory-installed KFQSA-SA DSSI controller card in it, but > what I'd really like to do is put SCSI into this poor dear, as DSSI > drives are getting harder to come by. > > I've got a quick question for everyone first. Can a KZQSA-SF (SCSI) > and a KFQSA-SA (DSSI) controller live peacefully together on the same > Q-BUS, or must I dump one to use the other? No problem ... > > If I can use both, does anyone have a KZQSA-SF card they'd be willing to > give, trade, or sell to me? I Thats not so easy ... Most people want to keep their SCSI q-bus cards ... but you could easily buy a new one ... (appr. 800-1400 $) :-(( > -Seth From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 20:13:47 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: *sigh* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been sitting here for fifty minutes trying to figure out how to do this but there's nothing to figure out. The simple fact is that I'd rather have all of you like me and want to talk to me and be my friends (and share your cool computer stories and helpful advice with me) than to win some silly battle with Sam. I kept thinking how I could end the thing without losing face. Without swallowing my pride. But Sam's insane and I'm not. The fact is you can't out-stubborn the insane. I won't go into the gory details of my cultural background or my spiritual beliefs but I have taken on the role of warrior in this situation with Sam...but the fact is that a true warrior would rather be defeated and die than to act against his own nature. And mean-spirited games are not in my nature. My nature is to explore, to learn and to like people and have them like me back. And frankly if dropping this fight with Sam (and letting him THINK he has won) will win the respect of even one of you (or even win BACK your respect) than I would rather have that than any amount of respect that I'd lose by either continuing the fight or (for that matter) simply giving up this battle and letting Sam have the last word. I'm sure that Sam will gloat and feel all warm and fuzzy that I'm a big loser for breaking my promise and backing down... but you know what? I don't care. Sam's a bad person. I don't care what he thinks. I have a wife, a house, a good job, a loving family and friends who like being around me. What POSSIBLE difference could the opinion of some anonymous, faceless nobody make to me? I only hope that nobody will hold this against me and that I'll win more respect by doing this than by continuing to fight a battle of wits against an unarmed man. I will now delete any message from Sam and ignore him with a fervor and continue having whatever conversations with the rest of you that you wish to carry on with me. I guess my promise not to back down was only made to Sam. But my promise to ignore him I make to EVERYONE else. Who cares if I break my promise to Sam? There's no dishonor in breaking a promise to one so malicious if it means the opportunity to keep a beneficial promise to everyone else, who are intelligent and decent people. I hope nobody thinks I'm a jerk and hates me. I was only trying to stand up to a bully but decided it wasn't worth losing friends over. I guess I'd rather lose to a bully than lose my friends. I hope everyone can forgive me my foolishness. And, as for Sam, I can't imagine what I could say that would demonstrate what he really is more than his own words and actions. I only hope you all can forgive me for letting it go so far. BTW, should folks like to get together and REASONABLY form a moderation organization and structure, I will gladly offer mailing list resources at my ISP for the list without ANY expectation of control over the moderation or content of the list. I can only hope that Sam is NEVER permitted to have control of the mailing list and that that task goes instead to respected individuals, like Allison or Duell or Willing etc etc. If those of you who have the authority (Bill Whitson included) to turn over the list to Sam have discovered what an outrageously bad idea that would be, then I'll feel that at least some small good has come out of this. Otherwise, I'll just have to hope that your judgement is better than mine. At any rate, I'm not leaving the list. Far from it. I intend to continue posting and talking with those of you who are respectful, intelligent and worth talking to (all of you minus 1) and hope that you'll continue to help me with my projects and respect me in general. But I promise EVERYONE here that all Sam's messages, whether posted to the list or sent privately to me, will be deleted unread. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 13:32:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues In-Reply-To: <199803181714.LAA29090@onyx.southwind.net> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Mar 18, 98 10:37:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/412f5039/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 20:19:27 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card In-Reply-To: <19980319010732.AAA1756@1Cust145.tnt13.dfw5.da.uu.net> Message-ID: > > If I can use both, does anyone have a KZQSA-SF card they'd be willing to > > give, trade, or sell to me? I > > Thats not so easy ... > Most people want to keep their SCSI q-bus cards ... > but you could easily buy a new one ... (appr. 800-1400 $) :-(( Yeah I found that out. I tried getting someone to loan or sell me a Unibus SCSI card for my PDP-11/84 so I could run it 24 hours without the RA81 shutting down the local power grid. Let's just say the silence was stifling. =-) Not that I blame anyone. I DID manage to get a Unibus ethernet card for it though so I can at least put it on the net...as part of my so-far vaporware put-computers-on-the-net project (I've been TRYING to get the SWTPC working and I DID have it telnetable for a day before it choked). But now that DSL will soon be offered in my community and, since I'm the sysadmin and chief network engineer, I'll by my ISPs first DSL customer at 256k ($40 per month!!!) ...anyway, now I'm really jazzed up about putting computers on the Net because I can offer access to them at a reasonable speed! Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:21:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980318161655.39e748b8@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 18, 98 04:16:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/31731111/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 18:10:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803182357.XAA25267@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 18, 98 11:57:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1275 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/637efb4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:34:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 18, 98 01:07:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/d36961e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 17:56:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: RGB monitor In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE" at Mar 18, 98 06:28:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1996 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/ff769ca7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 18:04:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803182356.XAA25216@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 18, 98 11:56:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1089 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/10f43d01/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 18 19:56:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <19980319015644.19696.qmail@hotmail.com> >> Perhaps a real computer historian can chime in here, but I vaguely recall >> that there was considerable experimentation and debate early in the >> development of electronic computers along the lines of analog vs. digital, >> von neumann vs non-von, analogies to electronic brains, etc. > What do you mean by Von Neumann? I see that as a self-replicating mechanism... > >I have here a book from the Philips Technical Library called 'Practical >Robot Circuits' published in 1960. The first half of this book contains >the design for a robot 'dog' using essentially an analogue control system >(mostly amplifiers and comparators) to process the signals from various >sensors (photocells, microphones, thermistors, etc). The outputs of the What can this "dog" do? Does it have any kind of interesting abilities? > >BTW, the electronic side of the device uses valves (vacuum tubes). > >The second half of the book describes a tic-tac-toe machine, again using >valves. This one is entirely digital AFAIK. Why does EVERYONE love Tic-Tac-Toe so much? Bill Gates made a program, this book has a machine.... [snip] AFAIK, the Soviet Union, before it broke apart, put a lot of time into analog and mechanical machines, anything but pure IC logic, anyway. This was partly because they(we) didn't have the technology to make reliable VLSI ICs on a large scale, but mostly that the weird non- or semi-digital machines can handle a lot more beating and EM interference. > >I seem to recall that A.K. Dewdeny (That's not the right spelling...) >wrote about 'analogue gadgets' in Scientific American at some point. The >basic point IIRC was that analogue systems are good at providing fast >_approximate_ solutions to certain problems. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 18 15:06:30 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: VAXstation $55/OBO In-Reply-To: <199803181726.AA17092@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803190159.UAA09531@mail.cgocable.net> Thanks for this tidbit, Allison. I started searching but I turned up nothing at digital's website show nothing about 4000VLC thin pizza box. The Oscillator chip says 100mhz. Only have one internal Qbus slot that is taken by that "dumb" video VRAM RAMDAC / sound / keyboard i/o daughterboard and one internal SCSI port driven by NCR 53C94 chipset. The needs: BIG help is to get info and what is options can be used with this boards? I would love to use it but problem is locating one monitor, s/w, keyboard and bit of help to work with that thing. :) > > 8vups or better depending on model. No slug. > > Vt320 was available in amber, green, P-white. Whoops looks like mangled formatted and I missed it! I liked them but I have VT420 already. Nicer one 14" at 70HZ. Whew! > > Good price but I think shipping may be understated. Maybe... possible. Jason D. > > Allison > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Mar 18 20:12:53 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: FAQ and the re-mailer Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980318124658.5ccf78a0@ricochet.net> At 10:46 AM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Would it be a) desirable, b) possible to have the remailer append a very >short text to each outgoing message with "Read the faq: "? From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Mar 18 20:13:01 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980318132901.5ccf79ea@ricochet.net> At 01:18 PM 3/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for >an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? >The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! Take a look on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/); I see them there occasionally for reasonable prices. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 18:39:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803190020.TAA07307@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 18, 98 07:20:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/83101aa0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 18:42:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC 1 Drive C: In-Reply-To: <35106749.D51BA821@mcs.com> from "Dan Stephans II" at Mar 18, 98 06:31:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 588 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/165e4134/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 21:11:07 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Keeping My Promise In-Reply-To: <19980319015644.19696.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Just wanted to let everyone know that Sam couldn't resist sending me his last word. I don't know what it was but I'm sure it had 4 letters. I deleted it unread. That felt really, REALLY good. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: All done. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 19:12:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <19980319015644.19696.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 18, 98 05:56:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1689 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/96c86762/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 18 19:16:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: FAQ and the re-mailer In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980318124658.5ccf78a0@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Mar 18, 98 08:12:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/32c3bbf7/attachment.ksh From adept at mcs.com Wed Mar 18 20:31:16 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC 1 Drive C: References: Message-ID: <35108374.70F375FA@mcs.com> Yeah, I've got a munged up Model 4 that I could pull the CRT out of (the CRT works) but I'd rather not cut wires and resolder cuz I'd like to get the ol' Model 4 fixed next. ;) I may pirate the CRT out of one of my old Qume q102 terminals just to get the 12 back on its feet. Thanks for the input though! Cheers, Dan Tony Duell wrote: > > ps -- I'm currently in dire need of a CRT for a TRS-80 Model 12. > > Does this machine obey ARD's law of CRT's I wonder.... > > Years ago when I was fixing 12" mono monitors and video terminals I > discovered that about 95% of all 12" CRTs were one of 2 types : > > a) narrow neck, modified B7G base, 12V heater > b) wide neck, B8H base, 6.3V heater. > > And that all CRTs within either group had essentially the same pinout and > would work at about the same voltages. So you could just swap them about. > > Worth trying, especially as a lot of PC MDA monitors contain type (a) :-)... > > > > > > > -tony From jmg at iac.net Wed Mar 18 20:32:38 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] Message-ID: <199803190232.VAA09376@mail.iac.net> Folks I just received this in private email from Bill Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! Take Care, J. Maynard Gelinas ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:03:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Bill Whitson To: "J. Maynard Gelinas" Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Hi. I'm currently working with Sam Ismail on this. He may have the capability to run the whole listserv. I'm sure he will bring the list up to date as soon as he knows. Thanks for the offer. Depending on what happens with Sam, I may take you up on it. - -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: jmg-> OK, jmg-> I've received significant help from list members here in the jmg->past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how jmg->family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance jmg->sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the jmg->80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management jmg->_if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities jmg->with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people jmg->chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) jmg-> jmg-> But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list jmg->maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic jmg->posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a jmg->wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier jmg->moderation. jmg-> jmg-> There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat jmg->before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make jmg->better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). jmg->However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have jmg->chimed up. jmg-> jmg-> I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in jmg->place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to jmg->everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I jmg->hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... jmg-> jmg->Respectfully, jmg->J. Maynard Gelinas jmg-> jmg-> jmg->> Hi all. jmg->> jmg->> It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on jmg->> classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll jmg->> get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't jmg->> read the list in months and only do basic addition and jmg->> removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal jmg->> lives have made it impossible to be any more active with jmg->> classiccmp. jmg->> jmg->> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever jmg->> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. jmg->> jmg->> I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much jmg->> as I'm available. jmg->> jmg->> Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I jmg->> think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the jmg->> initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll jmg->> have the time to just read it again. jmg->> jmg->> If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else jmg->> would like to take over with their own listserv, it would jmg->> be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. jmg->> If you can live with the current level of administration, jmg->> I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. jmg->> jmg->> Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to jmg->> make a post of this nature for some time and it never jmg->> made it high enough up the priorities list. jmg->> jmg->> -------------------------------------------------------- jmg->> Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu jmg->> Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 jmg->> University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 jmg->> jmg->> jmg->> jmg-> ------- End of forwarded message ------- From scott at saskatoon.com Wed Mar 18 20:34:14 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401C78E71@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: [snip] and... 4. Wasn't there something called a Central Point Option Card (or something like that?) that allowed a person to install an Apple drive in a PC? ttyl srw From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 18 20:40:17 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <19980319015644.19696.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: > What do you mean by Von Neumann? Von Neumann is credited with the classic CPU + memory architecture (as opposed to something like MIMD (like the connection machine) or SIMD (like a vector processing machine)). -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 18 20:57:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I have here a book from the Philips Technical Library called 'Practical > Robot Circuits' published in 1960. The first half of this book contains > the design for a robot 'dog' using essentially an analogue control system > (mostly amplifiers and comparators) to process the signals from various > sensors (photocells, microphones, thermistors, etc). The outputs of the > comparators feed an array of relays which control assorted motors (this > is, of course, a digital section). Now you're talking classic analog computing! Somewhere I've got a book of Ivan Sutherland's on this subject. I searched the net and found that he wrote "An Electro-Mechanical Model of Simple Animals" in 1958, but that's not the one I have. It's all coming back now (even though this was just before I was born) -- the age of cybernetics! Whatever happened to the age of the personal robot, and why do we still have manual vacuum cleaners? -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 18 21:00:28 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <009101bd52e3$2fad9200$72f438cb@nostromo> >before I was born) -- the age of cybernetics! Whatever happened to the >age of the personal robot, and why do we still have manual vacuum >cleaners? Because they're sexier when they bend over? Cheers A From jmg at iac.net Wed Mar 18 21:06:06 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] In-Reply-To: (message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:52:43 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: <199803190306.WAA10062@mail.iac.net> Sigh. You're right, I got your mail before my reply came through and I jumped to a conclusion without enough facts. Still, fuck you. I don't like you. I _am_ outta here now. J. Maynard Gelinas > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:52:43 -0800 (PST) > From: Sam Ismail > To: maynard@jmg.com > Subject: Re: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] > > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Whatever dude. I'm outta here. You're obviously abusing your > > power right now by intercepting the mail. You intend to shape > > opionion by censorship. This is far more unethical than my making > > public a personal email message. > > WHAT!? You posted your message publicly in ClassicCmp. Did you expect me > to ingore it or something? > > > Fuck you. > > Get a clue. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 18 21:06:06 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] In-Reply-To: <199803190232.VAA09376@mail.iac.net> References: <199803190232.VAA09376@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <35228aab.23640928@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:32:38 -0500 (EST), you said: > > Folks I just received this in private email from Bill >Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the >information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens >I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've >learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing >players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! If that happens, I'm outta here. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From mark at cyberlightstudios.com Wed Mar 18 21:11:36 1998 From: mark at cyberlightstudios.com (Mark Tosiello) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... Message-ID: <01bd52e4$b9fe16e0$f5108fd0@default> Same here....how do I unsubscribe? I've forgotten, now...can anyone give me the address? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... >Well, I have had it with this group. I am going to ignore any messages I >get for a while - later I will check back and if it does not improve, I am >out for good. > >Now I see why a lot of people I know are not on this list. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 18 21:22:02 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: <01bd52e4$b9fe16e0$f5108fd0@default> References: <01bd52e4$b9fe16e0$f5108fd0@default> Message-ID: <35258f2b.24793474@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:11:36 -0500, you said: >Same here....how do I unsubscribe? I've forgotten, now...can anyone give me the address? From my address book; University of Washington ListProcessor _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 18 21:36:23 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Robots again Message-ID: <3ca1e4e4.351092b9@aol.com> :::cautiously leaving bomb shelter in order to post::: back in the 1980s, i came across a book that also had a design for a robot dog but i think this was a different book. it was built around a 8085A and 8155 support chips, totally wire wrapped and included schematics for building a programmer to program the robot dog itself. i never did get around tuit, but would have been fun to build. why didnt robots catch on as big as computers did? i remember robots were the thing back in the 1980s like the web is now but never really gained critical mass. there were a few models made, ( hero 1 and 2, rb5x, et al) but nothing really caught on. ::returning to bomb shelter, continuing to delete 97% of classiccmp messages for the moment::: In a message dated 98-03-18 21:28:38 EST, you write: << > >I have here a book from the Philips Technical Library called 'Practical > >Robot Circuits' published in 1960. The first half of this book contains > >the design for a robot 'dog' using essentially an analogue control > system > >(mostly amplifiers and comparators) to process the signals from various > >sensors (photocells, microphones, thermistors, etc). The outputs of the > What can this "dog" do? Does it have any kind of interesting > abilities? Not a lot. To keep it simple there's no 'learning by experience' (the book does mention this in passing) or large memory stores (using only valves and relays, that's not suprising). Looking quickly at the book I can find : 1) Detecting/following a light source (turning its 'head' towards it, moving towards it). 2) Detecting a sequence of 2 tones (its 'name') and coming towards the sound source 3) Detecting that it's walked into something and backing off. 4) Detecting a hot object ('food'), turning its 'head' towards it, licking it. 5) Using a sonar (accoustical radar) system to detect objects and avoid them OK, trivial compared to what can be done with even a PIC microcontroller. But I'd still like to make one one day.... >> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 18 21:41:43 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <25af8be7.351093f9@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-18 21:39:17 EST, you write: << 4. Wasn't there something called a Central Point Option Card (or something like that?) that allowed a person to install an Apple drive in a PC? ttyl srw >> the only thing i'm familiar with is the central point copy option board which let a pc do a bit copy of any disk, write protected, ibm format or not. i have two, one is an earlier version i think, but i've never gotten around to setting it up yet. david From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Mar 18 22:45:59 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] In-Reply-To: <199803190232.VAA09376@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: There is nothing that bugs me worse than being right. I've been saying for two days that Sam had malicious intentions and wanted to bring them to bear by wresting control of the group. Apparently, he's managed to snow Bill into believing he's capable of managing a list. Sam is not, shall we say, a people person. People called me paranoid. The whole time he's been insulting, harassing and attacking people he KNEW that he'd soon have control of the list so that he could kick people he didn't like off the list or abuse them in other ways. IE he was provoking the fight so he could weed out who he'd soon have the power to get rid of. I can't find words to express how disturbing and disappointing this turn of events is. Just when I thought things could get back to normal...just when I'd decided that Sam wasn't worth my time and I'd be able to talk to my friends here for a long time to come...I discover that Sam's been sitting there the whole time planning to take vengeance on anyone who's ever questioned his ill-gotten authority. But instead of back to normal I find that it's going to rise to new heights of bizarre. You know how you detect someone with evil intentions? They stab you in the back and then they come around and stab you in the front and then say it was all your own fault. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > Folks I just received this in private email from Bill > Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the > information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens > I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've > learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing > players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! > > Take Care, > J. Maynard Gelinas > > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:03:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > From: Bill Whitson > To: "J. Maynard Gelinas" > Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... > > Hi. > > I'm currently working with Sam Ismail on this. He may have > the capability to run the whole listserv. I'm sure he will > bring the list up to date as soon as he knows. > > Thanks for the offer. Depending on what happens with Sam, > I may take you up on it. > > - -------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu > Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 > University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > > > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > jmg-> OK, > jmg-> I've received significant help from list members here in the > jmg->past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how > jmg->family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance > jmg->sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the > jmg->80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management > jmg->_if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities > jmg->with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people > jmg->chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) > jmg-> > jmg-> But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list > jmg->maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic > jmg->posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a > jmg->wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier > jmg->moderation. > jmg-> > jmg-> There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat > jmg->before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make > jmg->better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). > jmg->However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have > jmg->chimed up. > jmg-> > jmg-> I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in > jmg->place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to > jmg->everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I > jmg->hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... > jmg-> > jmg->Respectfully, > jmg->J. Maynard Gelinas > jmg-> > jmg-> > jmg->> Hi all. > jmg->> > jmg->> It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on > jmg->> classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll > jmg->> get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't > jmg->> read the list in months and only do basic addition and > jmg->> removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal > jmg->> lives have made it impossible to be any more active with > jmg->> classiccmp. > jmg->> > jmg->> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever > jmg->> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. > jmg->> > jmg->> I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much > jmg->> as I'm available. > jmg->> > jmg->> Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I > jmg->> think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the > jmg->> initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll > jmg->> have the time to just read it again. > jmg->> > jmg->> If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > jmg->> would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > jmg->> be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > jmg->> If you can live with the current level of administration, > jmg->> I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. > jmg->> > jmg->> Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to > jmg->> make a post of this nature for some time and it never > jmg->> made it high enough up the priorities list. > jmg->> > jmg->> -------------------------------------------------------- > jmg->> Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu > jmg->> Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 > jmg->> University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > jmg->> > jmg->> > jmg->> > jmg-> > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Mar 18 22:12:33 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> References: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: <35149a3e.286162509@hoser> How many do you need? I've got about 15 that aren't doing anything important. I bought two of the SQ drives when they first came out, sank a bundle into the cartridges, and then they flaked out on me. One drive had some kind of head crash and started eating cartridges, and the other one just ceased to function. Frankly, I was not impressed. Perhaps their new products are better. Do you know of any way to re-format a SQ disk that has been bulk-erased? I had this bright idea several years ago that maybe just completely clearing the disks by bulk-erasing would be a good thing. I'm thinking now that I obliterated some factory tracks that the drive can't reproduce. Ideas? On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:18:27 -0500, lfb107@psu.edu (Les Berry) wrote: >So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for >an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? >The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 18 22:20:38 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Maybe list division? Re: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] Message-ID: <01bd52ee$5f6fd2e0$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. Instead of killing the current classiccmp, we could just take some parts of it off. For instance, we could make a "classiccmpmarket" list for buying/selling classics. Just a thought, Tim D. Hotze > > Folks I just received this in private email from Bill >Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the >information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens >I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've >learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing >players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! > >Take Care, >J. Maynard Gelinas > > >------- Start of forwarded message ------- >Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:03:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Bill Whitson >To: "J. Maynard Gelinas" >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... > >Hi. > >I'm currently working with Sam Ismail on this. He may have >the capability to run the whole listserv. I'm sure he will >bring the list up to date as soon as he knows. > >Thanks for the offer. Depending on what happens with Sam, >I may take you up on it. > >- -------------------------------------------------------- >Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu >Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 >University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > >jmg-> OK, >jmg-> I've received significant help from list members here in the >jmg->past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how >jmg->family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance >jmg->sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the >jmg->80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management >jmg->_if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities >jmg->with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people >jmg->chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) >jmg-> >jmg-> But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list >jmg->maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic >jmg->posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a >jmg->wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier >jmg->moderation. >jmg-> >jmg-> There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat >jmg->before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make >jmg->better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). >jmg->However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have >jmg->chimed up. >jmg-> >jmg-> I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in >jmg->place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to >jmg->everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I >jmg->hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... >jmg-> >jmg->Respectfully, >jmg->J. Maynard Gelinas >jmg-> >jmg-> >jmg->> Hi all. >jmg->> >jmg->> It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on >jmg->> classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll >jmg->> get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't >jmg->> read the list in months and only do basic addition and >jmg->> removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal >jmg->> lives have made it impossible to be any more active with >jmg->> classiccmp. >jmg->> >jmg->> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever >jmg->> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. >jmg->> >jmg->> I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much >jmg->> as I'm available. >jmg->> >jmg->> Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I >jmg->> think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the >jmg->> initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll >jmg->> have the time to just read it again. >jmg->> >jmg->> If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >jmg->> would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >jmg->> be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >jmg->> If you can live with the current level of administration, >jmg->> I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >jmg->> >jmg->> Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to >jmg->> make a post of this nature for some time and it never >jmg->> made it high enough up the priorities list. >jmg->> >jmg->> -------------------------------------------------------- >jmg->> Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu >jmg->> Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 >jmg->> University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 >jmg->> >jmg->> >jmg->> >jmg-> >------- End of forwarded message ------- From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Wed Mar 18 21:37:58 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: RGB monitor In-Reply-To: <50975206F0B1D111A69E00609715143F01CEBE@MDMSERVER> Message-ID: >I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into >my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. >Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on >Apple monitors. AppleColor RGB monitor has a frequency(I don't know which one, I get confused) of around 15kHz, vs. a normal VGA of around 30kHz. Basically, the AppleColor RGB will not work on a Mac. Although I seem to remember reading that the old Mac II video card could use it... I'm not sure. Anyways, try searching for the monitor at http://til.info.apple.com, that has all the info. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From dlw at neosoft.com Wed Mar 18 16:57:00 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Fortune Systems 32:16 & The Trailing Edge Message-ID: <199803190457.WAA26751@mailbox.neosoft.com> Before everyone runs off... I just picked up two Fortune Systems' computers. A Fortune 32:16 SX and a Fortune 32:16 XP. These were 68K based Unix systems but I only have the base units. The XP system should have a monitor and keyboard that plug into it but those are missing. As usual with many old systems, these also came without doc and software. I helped the previous owner as much as I could with these (which was not very much) and he was able to get one up and logged in but that was about it. Does anyone out there have any info on these; specs, doc, software or a monitor and keyboard for the XP? Also, I've set up a server and registered my own domain; trailingedge.com. As this is my own hardware, connection and domain, I intend to run web and ftp services here with as many links to other classic computing sites, info and whatever files I can receive permission to place here. I hope to cover as many systems as I can add space for. So far I've only begun to move my old web pages from my ISP over to the new server but plan to update the site as I go along. I'd be happy to hear what people would like to find there or services people would like to see. You can email me at my old address dlw@neosoft.com or my new one dlw@trailingedge.com. The new web site is http://www.trailingedge.com of course. Sorry but the site isn't currently very "text friendly", (though I did view it with the current version of lynx from a Unix shell without too much trouble) but that will be changing shortly too. Thanks for your time. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com || dlw@neosoft.com http://www.trailingedge.com || http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From DiesIrrae at aol.com Wed Mar 18 22:59:41 1998 From: DiesIrrae at aol.com (Dies Irrae) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) Message-ID: Speaking of finding systems. Today I found an Atari 800 (a few keys missing) at a thrift store for 50 cents. -Enrique! From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Mar 18 23:01:56 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3517a396.288554719@hoser> Amen! Sam has slammed me in the past for standing up for "bleeding hearts" like you, and I think it's time we "bleeding hearts" got together and kicked some a**! We like machines, but we don't have to _act_ like them. We can talk (mostly) about classic computing while still acknowledging and respecting each other's unique experiences and feelings. All this time I've seen Sam's name, and kept thinking that somehow this all made sense. It's finally come to me; it was just a spelling error! Go to sea, Sam - GO TO SEA! (with apologies to Herman Melville) Call me Ishmael. Some years ago--never mind how long precisely --having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off--then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:18:46 -0600 (CST), Wirehead Prime wrote: > >Sam, if you attempt to take over the mailing list I will proceed in the >following manner. >In light of this I can only implore the current constituency of this >mailing list and the powers that be (Bill) NOT to turn over control of >this group to you in any way, shape or form. To do so would be like >throwing baby chicks to the fox. -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From spc at armigeron.com Wed Mar 18 22:55:32 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers Message-ID: <199803190455.XAA06354@armigeron.com> I'm surprised that it took so little time for this list to get to this point. Another list I'm on took about two years for it to reach critical mass before it exploded into three additional mailing lists, all covering the same topic (with the result of many hurt feelings, a list that only lasted about six months before it imploded, with the original list still going strong). As I said to Sam in some private mail I sent to him: I'm not sure what can be done, but if the topic of a mailing list is held too tightly, eventually it'll die (like one of the mailing list I host now, although there are some other reasons for that as well) as there is little or nothing new being added. ... I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, and yes, perhaps the topics have drifted off a bit too much, but actions like yours (and I'm not trying to blame or pin anything on you, this is just my observations from about 5 years of being on several mailing lists (almost all of them high volume)) tend to do more harm over time than good, by splitting the community up, causing confusion, ill feelings and political overtones. And yet it continues (and Sam, in your reply to the above you appear sane and rational, yet your diatribes on the list show a completely different side, and one that isn't very flattering). Bill may "own" the current list, but that still doesn't prevent anyone from starting up a new list dedicated to the same topic, only time and resources. And perhaps against my better judgment, I'm doing such a thing (Lord help me), and so let it be. If Sam feels that he can run a list better than Bill, or even I, then he is certainly free to start his own and see who signs up. Much like I am doing now. It's there. If no one subscribes and this list continues to flurish, so be it. If, on the other hand, my list takes off and this one dies, so be it. Currently, the only person subscribed is me. I'm not going to add people, it's up to you. To subscribe, send a message to classiccomp-request@lists.armigeron.com with a subject line of 'subscribe' (you might want to put this on the first line of the body as well). That's it. You'll then recieve a welcome message describing the rules and regulations of the list, as well as the unsubscribe rules. If you don't like the rules, we can talk, or you can walk. Simple, eh? -spc (We shall see ... ) From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Mar 18 23:38:50 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers In-Reply-To: <199803190455.XAA06354@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319003850.00aba5b0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Captain Napalm typed: Note: My first, last & only on this subject... [snip] > And yet it continues (and Sam, in your reply to the above you appear sane >and rational, yet your diatribes on the list show a completely different >side, and one that isn't very flattering). In my experiences as well, during private e-mail exchanges with Sam (one on a similar vein to this) he does seem much more level-headed, but in this instance I do believe that Sam is *way* off-base here. To stretch things just a wee bit, Hitler proved that in the end, dictatorship is a bad way to be. Sam seems to be bent on ruling with an iron fist, which I believe would stifle any list he creates, not being allowed to flourish. > Bill may "own" the current list, but that still doesn't prevent anyone >from starting up a new list dedicated to the same topic, only time and >resources. And perhaps against my better judgment, I'm doing such a thing >(Lord help me), and so let it be. If Sam feels that he can run a list >better than Bill, or even I, then he is certainly free to start his own and >see who signs up. Much like I am doing now. As I'm partners with 2 others to start an ISP I was considering this as well, and was willing to offer any services/help to Sir Wirehead if he so needed, I make this offer to you as well... If you need any off-site backup / mirroring / etc. services that can be performed without swallowing an entire T-1 (10% bandwidth to start would not be a problem, I believe), I will help you if you request it. Anything else you can think of, just ask. I will certainly consider anything, provided it takes not more than 7-10 hours / week of my time (preferably less -- this venture is a bit time constraining...) > It's there. If no one subscribes and this list continues to flurish, so >be it. If, on the other hand, my list takes off and this one dies, so be >it. Currently, the only person subscribed is me. I'm not going to add >people, it's up to you. For the moment, I'll see if this list straightens out. However, if Sam has his way.... lemme say that I've been burned by loyalty too many times, and have a pretty good feeling as to when to bolt... Oh, on the offer: If your list flourishes and then you decide to end it, I am already offering to move the list to my servers if that need arises... I got into the "list business" (3 under my belt -- 2 dealing with classic machines) by taking over a list in dire straits... (yea, one is just a bit rocky right now, but not being a sysadmin has its disadvantages... :-( That will be rectified in 2-3 weeks, permanently.) This is "Merch", signing off on this subject. -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 18 23:32:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:50 2005 Subject: Keep me out of it. Message-ID: <199803190532.AA28142@world.std.com> < I do not _want_ the job, I am simply willing to do it. I Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > I'm surprised that it took so little time for this list to get to this > point. Another list I'm on took about two years for it to reach critical > mass before it exploded into three additional mailing lists, all covering > the same topic (with the result of many hurt feelings, a list that only > lasted about six months before it imploded, with the original list still > going strong). Was this right after Sam subscribed 8-) > As I said to Sam in some private mail I sent to him: > > I'm not sure what can be done, but if the topic of a mailing list is > held too tightly, eventually it'll die (like one of the mailing list > I host now, although there are some other reasons for that as well) > as there is little or nothing new being added. > > ... > > I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, and yes, perhaps the topics > have drifted off a bit too much, but actions like yours (and I'm not > trying to blame or pin anything on you, this is just my observations > from about 5 years of being on several mailing lists (almost all of > them high volume)) tend to do more harm over time than good, by > splitting the community up, causing confusion, ill feelings and > political overtones. A very good breakdown. I especially liked (so will repeat 8-) > splitting the community up, causing confusion, ill feelings and > political overtones. Sounds exactly like Sam - I don't want to look like I am picking only on Sam (tho it is extremely hard - heck - impossible) I have to agree the topics have lately gone pretty far off track BUT... Isn't this OUR list? Bill runs it (supplies the resources) but as he stated himself - he doesn't have time to baby sit us. Only one person that I am aware of goes so far as to blame the subscribers if the list wanders. Only one person goes immediately to gutter language when he has to spend a little more time and read the headers, digest the fact the thread is going nowhere, and then ignore the thread. > And yet it continues (and Sam, in your reply to the above you appear sane > and rational, yet your diatribes on the list show a completely different > side, and one that isn't very flattering). Well apparently you have never recieved the email I have from Sam! > Bill may "own" the current list, but that still doesn't prevent anyone > from starting up a new list dedicated to the same topic, only time and > resources. And perhaps against my better judgment, I'm doing such a thing > (Lord help me), and so let it be. If Sam feels that he can run a list > better than Bill, or even I, then he is certainly free to start his own and > see who signs up. Much like I am doing now. If Sam gets to host/moderate/control the list - most of us are gone! And I mean the backbone of the list - just read the replys to Sams little triad. > It's there. If no one subscribes and this list continues to flurish, so > be it. If, on the other hand, my list takes off and this one dies, so be > it. Currently, the only person subscribed is me. I'm not going to add > people, it's up to you. > > To subscribe, send a message to classiccomp-request@lists.armigeron.com > with a subject line of 'subscribe' (you might want to put this on the first > line of the body as well). That's it. You'll then recieve a welcome > message describing the rules and regulations of the list, as well as the > unsubscribe rules. If you don't like the rules, we can talk, or you can > walk. > > Simple, eh? > > -spc (We shall see ... ) I still reserve the 'final option'. I only hope Bill isn't too busy to think of us. BC From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Mar 18 23:43:18 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... In-Reply-To: <199803182352.SAA06841@mail.iac.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Mar 18, 98 06:52:07 pm Message-ID: <9803190543.AA30425@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/11e7093e/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 18 23:53:26 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 picture online Message-ID: <006d01bd52fb$57ea8c60$04f438cb@nostromo> I have placed a piccie of my HX-20, for your viewing pleasure, at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/hx20/hx20.jpg Please note the unit shown is sitting in a nifty snaplock carrybox from EPSON, has the expansion unit connected on the left. The leaflet shown lists the unit at $1487. This is in the days when $1AUS = US$1.09. I'm very open to trades on this unit. I'm looking for cartridges from the video console machines, and the machines themselves. Cheers A From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 19 00:04:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Bulk erased SyQuest carts WAS: Re: DING DING! In-Reply-To: <35149a3e.286162509@hoser> References: <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> <199803181820.NAA62308@r02n02.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: >impressed. Perhaps their new products are better. Do you know of any The SyJet is very nice, but runs VERY Hot. >way to re-format a SQ disk that has been bulk-erased? I had this >bright idea several years ago that maybe just completely clearing the >disks by bulk-erasing would be a good thing. I'm thinking now that I >obliterated some factory tracks that the drive can't reproduce. >Ideas? Have you tried a low-level format of them? Do you have access to an Amiga? My recommendation would be to format them out on the Amiga, then format them on the machine that you want to use them on. I've heard of people trashing SCSI drives doing wierd stuff to thier format, and then being able to use them after formating them on an Amiga. Don't know the specifics, but I do know that the Amiga does a very intense format, and it takes a long time to fully set up a decent sized disk to be used on the Amiga because of this. I've got to agree with the original comment on the price of the disks. I've bought a used 44Mb drive with 3 carts, and a 88Mb drive with 2 carts. Both times I payed what one new 44Mb cart would cost. Still based on the availability these things must be being used by someone for something. My guess would be the Publishing industry still uses them quite a bit since it's usually in Mac catalogs and stores I see the carts for sale. Of course a new TK-50 costs about the same (~95Mb Tape). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 00:10:08 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Robots again References: <199803181533.JAA25114@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Message-ID: <3510B6C0.FE68EA3D@cnct.com> Brian L. Stuart wrote: > On analog computers: > I always feel like the odd man out when I talk about having actually > worked with analog computers. In fact my farewall lecture at Rhodes > College where I taught for 6 years was on the subject of analog > computers. About 20 years ago, my first thoughts about AI were also > along the lines of a "stored program analog computer." It's quite > possible to imagine what such a concept might mean, but the difficulty > is determining what purpose it would serve. Remember that an analog > computer is basically a big differential equation solver. We can > certainly design it in a way that when certain conditions are reached, > we change the equations being solved, but how would we apply that > to AI? Also the combination of analog and digital computer was > fairly common and called a hybrid computer. EIA was one of the > manufcaturers of such beasts. I still have fond memories of the > 640/680 I used in college. A stored program analog computer should be quite straightforward. It's just necessary to figure a quicker and easier way to carve the cams, probably best done by offloading the job to digital computers running the machine tools. Possibly associated with some robotics to install the cams. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 00:32:41 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Question for the Faq - If there is one. References: <3.0.1.32.19980318091952.00bd1100@pc> Message-ID: <3510BC09.9DEA4F4B@cnct.com> John Foust wrote: > There's a few ways to handle this: send out a subscribe/unsubscribe/FAQ > post every month, or put a short .signature on the digest or on every > message, for a day once every couple weeks. Problem there is that it has to be plugged into the listserver by the owner. Bill hasn't been around for a little while, probably due to work schedule. I hope he shows up again soon, he tends to insert a bit of sanity into this madhouse. (Other than Bill, I'd say Allison is the best around here for keeping us within the intended subjects). -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 00:38:09 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) References: <199803190020.TAA07307@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <3510BD51.4ED2440B@cnct.com> J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > Re: phi mag's floppy tape: Didn't this resemble that old > TRS-80 hack the 'stringy floppy'? I used to have one of those when I > was a kid (the TRS-80 Stringy Floppy before I could afford a real 5 > 1/4" drive), and still remember it fondly. It was a pretty cool > little unit. > > For those who don't remember, it was a high speed tape drive > which used closed loop tape cartridges similar in concept to 8 track > tapes, though much smaller. Each tape could store up to 50k as I > remember, with load times under a minute. This was _impressive_ if > you were used to cassette tapes! BTW: anyone remember who the > manufacturer of the Stringy Floppy was? Actually, I seem to recall that the Exatron Stringy Floppy was also available for Apple and Commodore products, but there's a chance that I'm remembering the adverts wrong. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From donm at cts.com Thu Mar 19 00:40:27 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Scott Walde wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: > [snip] > and... > > 4. Wasn't there something called a Central Point Option Card (or something > like that?) that allowed a person to install an Apple drive in a PC? > > ttyl > srw Only in part, unfortunately. The CP Deluxe Option Card and associated software permitted copying an Apple disk or saving an 'image' to file. However, the contents of the disk were just as inscrutable with the card as without. MicroSolutions, on the other hand, made a card that they called MatchPoint which, with its associated software, permitted reading and writing Apple disks on a standard PC drive. Both cards were used as a bridge card between the FDC and the drive. Regrettably, neither card is in production now and the MicroSolutions card was never plentiful. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 19 00:58:46 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401C78E71@red-msg-44.dns.mi crosoft.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319015846.00a547c0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Kai Kaltenbach typed: >There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: [snip] >2. Obtain an "Apple II-on-an-ISA-card" device (rare, no longer manufactured, >various brand names) Tho I'm not much of an Apple person (unless someone would like to send me a G3 for free... ;-) there is a place on the web that has some "Diamond Trackstar //e" boards for sale -- for $19 each (plus shipping, I believe). Dunno if that's a good price or not (or if the nomenclature is totally correct -- again, apologies for not being an Apple Nut -- CoCoNut is more my style) but it seems they have (at least) several... For the Webulators: http://www.ahhz.com/ Hope that helps someone... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 01:21:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Ooops... this Ultrix... References: <3.0.3.32.19980318065223.00e46210@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3510C775.74ADEBD4@cnct.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > > Sorry, I should have clarified. I have Ultrix 4.3 for both VAXen and RISC. > Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it'll end up being built around > BSD 4.2-4.3, yes? > > I'm asking because I'll be book-shopping before too much longer, and I've > had my eye on the O'Reilly books 'Unix in a Nutshell' and 'Essential System You can never go wrong with the O'Reilly books. As far back as 1984, the original Nutshell handbook on UUCP got my testicles off of the anvil. And my wife wonders why I buy new editions of the books I've had for years. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Mar 19 00:55:14 1998 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (Enrico Tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... References: Message-ID: <3510C151.825AFD5F@ndirect.co.uk> Bill Whitson wrote: > > Hi all. > > It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on > classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll > get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't > read the list in months and only do basic addition and > removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal > lives have made it impossible to be any more active with > classiccmp. I think that most of the problems here prove the critics a made months ago when I joined the list (for which I was castigated). I think that a great part of the problems is that you (we) look at computers as pieces of plastic, metal and rubber and not as what they meant and mean to the heart and minds of millions of people. Regards enrico ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Mar 19 01:01:41 1998 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (Enrico Tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: New to List References: <190eebdd.3510303a@aol.com> <351056D3.CE0528E@navix.net> Message-ID: <3510C2D4.804E2515@ndirect.co.uk> Cord Coslor wrote: > > Hello, and welcome to the list! I hope all this clatter doesn't scare you > off... normally it isn't like this. This group is normally a great place to get > all the information you would ever want. A lot of times, there is discussion > about old mainframes, etc., which I personally don't know much about, but many > of the members here do. I happen to specialize in the computers that you talked > about, and most everyone here also has knowledge on those home computers as > well. > > As far as the recent discussion about "some guy named Sam." -- it'll all be > over soon, and hopefully the group with remain.... see, sometimes we get bored > with the current discussion on classic computers and decide to drift far > away... basically just something to do, but you're more than welcome to start a > more on-topic thread! The last three days I've actually just been deleteing > everything, because I know I won't enjoy reading about this list in dismay. I > sure am glad I saw your post, however, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to > welcome you to the group! No one else probably would have either, because their > are more important things going on here :-) Like diddling overseas partecipants and fooling around .... > Anyway, my point is made, and most importantly, welcome to the group, and maybe > you- as someone that isn't 'burnt out' will start a fresh new thread! > > Welcome aboard, > > CORD COSLOR > -- > ___________________________________________________ > | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ > | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | > |---------------------------------------------------| | > | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | > |---------------------------------------------------| | > | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | > |___________________________________________________| | > \____________________________________________________\| ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Mar 19 01:02:50 1998 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (Enrico Tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... References: <3.0.5.32.19980318172847.0086e860@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3510C319.92FABD20@ndirect.co.uk> David Wollmann wrote: > > At 02:55 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: > > >Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a > >few issues to a vote. > > Does that mean that we get to vote only until you "take over ClasscCmp > completely?" Who are you exactly? Just curious. Just a bigheaded bully as demonstrated in the past.... > > -- > David Wollmann > dwollmann@ibmhelp.com -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 19 01:27:05 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980319015846.00a547c0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >2. Obtain an "Apple II-on-an-ISA-card" device (rare, no longer manufactured, > >various brand names) > > Tho I'm not much of an Apple person (unless someone would like to send me a > G3 for free... ;-) there is a place on the web that has some "Diamond > Trackstar //e" boards for sale -- for $19 each (plus shipping, I believe). Is that what those things are!? Cool, they have a 6502 and a Z-80! Has anybody used one? Thanks, Doug From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 19 01:37:27 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <00ba01bd526e$ff785bc0$1af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319023727.00a373b0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Andrew Davie typed: >OK, the floppies I have are NOT as described in Tony's last letter. These >here disks are 77mm square, and do NOT have a shutter protecting the surface >of the disk. I am sure the shutter is not missing; I have 10 disks all >the same. From the circular midsection with a rectangular opening all the >way to the edge, the access area on this disk looks like a large keyhole. >Yet, the style is similar to a standard 3.5" floppy > >A side-note; these disks are advertised at having 144K unformatted >capacity. Those interested can see the disks and drive at... > >http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/aqdisk.jpg >http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/floppy.jpg Methinks I *may* be able to help... there was a Tandy portable word processor that used (and I quote): 2.8" disks, Single Sided, (i think) Single Density, *formatted* capacity: 100K. Dunno what Tandy box used 'em, tho. Checked out your pix on the web, and I believe these are the same disks... The local Radio Shack still has one package of quantity 1 or 2 (can't remember which) for the crazy price of: ~$3.00 USD, never opened. If you're salivating here now, I can pick these up for you and ship them to you at cost.... (yea, this sounds personalized... but I actually did intend this to go to the list... don't ask me why, tho; it's late.) Hope this helps, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 01:58:10 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: .LZ compression?? References: <199803181914.LAA24237@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <3510D012.4DE22AFE@cnct.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > To make a long story short, I found some _very_ interesting looking > stuff in the 'incoming' directory. Apparently tar will happily tar > that up for you as well, even though you can't get into it and browse > the files with ftp. Namely, files with names like 'RSX89A2.LZ.gz', > 'rsx83b1.lz.gz', and 'rsx90a.lz.gz'. > > Are these DECUS RSX tapes in some weird '.LZ' format? Or disk images? > I'm very much hoping they're disk images I'd be able to use with Bob > Supnik's PDP emulator (since I, sadly, lack PDP hardware at home right > now). > > Obviously, I know how to un-gzip them, but I have no idea what the '.LZ' > extension is. It's not in the comp.compression FAQ either, that I could > find. Anyone know what they are? There should be some sort of Lempel-Zev de-archiver somewhere in the library. IIRC, it started with DEC but also became popular with CP/M and TRSDOS and other 8-bit systems (LHARC etc.). The .gz files were simply further compression of already compressed files. I'm not a DEC guru, but ".lzh" used to be common extension before ".arc" or ".zip". -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 19 02:48:51 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC 1 Drive C: References: <35108374.70F375FA@mcs.com> Message-ID: <3510DBF3.78ABDA3C@cnct.com> The Adept wrote: > > Yeah, I've got a munged up Model 4 that I could pull the CRT out of (the CRT > works) but I'd rather not cut wires and resolder cuz I'd like to get the ol' > Model 4 fixed next. ;) I may pirate the CRT out of one of my old Qume q102 > terminals just to get the 12 back on its feet. Thanks for the input though! > > Cheers, > > Dan I don't know where you are geographically, but there should be plenty of tubes around that will fit in that Mod 12. Lots of terminals used equivalent tubes. Hell, I'd offer one of mine, but I'm waiting for the tube in my Model II to die so I can have a green screen in the grey monster. (Is there _any_ component in a TRS-80 Model II that can die [or be killed] aside from the static electricically sensitive 4164 RAM chips or the head-load pads in the floppy drives [from friction]? If there is, I haven't found it in almost twenty years.) > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ps -- I'm currently in dire need of a CRT for a TRS-80 Model 12. > > > > Does this machine obey ARD's law of CRT's I wonder.... > > > > Years ago when I was fixing 12" mono monitors and video terminals I > > discovered that about 95% of all 12" CRTs were one of 2 types : > > > > a) narrow neck, modified B7G base, 12V heater > > b) wide neck, B8H base, 6.3V heater. > > > > And that all CRTs within either group had essentially the same pinout and > > would work at about the same voltages. So you could just swap them about. > > > > Worth trying, especially as a lot of PC MDA monitors contain type (a) :-)... > > > > > > > > > > > > -tony -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Thu Mar 19 03:18:10 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: VT320 help. Message-ID: <01IUU3I8D9YQ8Y63W5@AC.GRIN.EDU> I use a VT320 a lot, so when I found one in a thrift store this week for $2, I decided to pick it up. Unfortunately, it's not in perfect health. If I plug it in without a keyboard, I get (predictably) a "Keyboard not present" error. If I plug it in with a keyboard attached, I get a screenful of garbage (the same character in a recognizable pattern, but garbage nonetheless). Bad keyboard? Wrong keyboard cable? Dead terminal? Ideas for further testing? Next prject: make it talk to my Linux box. Thanks, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 19 06:34:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <199803191234.AA00640@world.std.com> <> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: <> [snip] <> and... How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running APPLE software. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 19 07:55:38 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: More of Sam's Rantings Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980318184317.3a7ff698@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980319075538.3a179ed4@intellistar.net> Hi Everyone, Well Sam's not going to let it drop. I have not replied to the last three of his messages in order to try and let this die down but he's determined to continue try a prevoke a response. Now he apparently thinks that it's inappropriate to post anything about the operation of this list (unless he posts it, of course). But I won't bother to responde to his rantings. I'll just post it here and you can use your own judgement. Joe At 04:13 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: > >You are seriously off-topic (again). For your possible enlightenment, >here is a FREE copy of the FAQ: > > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? > >Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it >seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. > >1.3 What is a Classic Computer? > >_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. >This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to >work OK, so I've kept it. > >1.4 Who runs this thing? > >That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. > >1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? > >Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond >to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still >probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of >mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd >user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the >messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get >back to you eventually. > >1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. > >I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show >me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large >as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously >there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see >a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing >anyway. > >1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? > >The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average >seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message >load peaks for as much as a week. > >[][][][][][][][][] > >2.1 What can I talk about? > >Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many >people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might >want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a >good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before >posting. > >2.2 Can I talk about PCs? > >Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be >aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC >newsgroups. > >2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes > with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? > >There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for >micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". > >2.4 Can I post advertisements? > >Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, >use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not >you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there >are members of this list in a number of different countries. > >2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? > >Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, >would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on >usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their >machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that >they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to >find yourself a computer. > >2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. > >Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't >have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic >electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz >with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking >questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check >the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking >out!" exactly means. > >2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? > >It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive >section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). > >2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! > (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) > >Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop >any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. > >2.9 Can I post trophy lists? > >Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise >but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be >guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods >if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. > >2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? > >Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of >people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now >that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I have tried to drop this arguement with Sam but he insists on >> perpetuating it. It may be embarrassing to read this stuff but it should be >> kept public since it does concern the operation of this list. Sam is now >> complaining that this tread is off topic for this list, but he convenently >> forgets that he is the one that started it! In his latest tirade, Sam has >> accused me of using this list for profit (I wish!). I should note that >> selling items on the list is permitted according to the FAQs, and yes I >> have probably made a grand total of $50 in the last six months (net not >> profit). Anthony is right, Sam seems to be interested in nothing more than >> harassing others and tearing down this list. >> >> What I would like to know is who appointed Sam to police this list? >> >> Joe >> >> At 05:59 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the >> >OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line >> >here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list >> >is to do anything other than to harass others. >> > >> >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> > >> >PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it >> >does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of >> >person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games >> >are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake >> >and the extent to which others should participate in it. >> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message >> >---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) >> >From: Sam Ismail >> >To: Wirehead Prime >> >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... >> > >> > >> >Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: >> > >> > >> >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? >> > >> >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >> >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >> >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >> >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >> >often better handled in private e-mail. >> > >> >Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would >> >be greatly valued by all. >> > >> >Have a nice day! >> > >> >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties >> >> whatsoever in its administration. >> >> >> >> I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does >> >> not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to >> >> control it for the purposes of ego inflation. >> >> >> >> I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is >> >> clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should >> >> remain precisely as it is. >> >> >> >> That's my two cents worth... >> >> >> >> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> >> >> >> > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >> >> > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >> >> > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >> >> > If you can live with the current level of administration, >> >> > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >Sam Alternate e-mail: >> dastar@siconic.com >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, >> Jackass >> > >> > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 >> > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! >> > >> > >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Mar 19 07:03:02 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <01bd5337$59984520$LocalHost@hotze> Just out of curiorisity, were these made by Diamond Multimedia, the ones that now make the modems, video cards, DVD drives, etc.? What are the chances of finding one? Around how much would they cost? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison > From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Mar 19 07:10:35 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <01bd5338$6749b680$LocalHost@hotze> There's another option. For those who have access to the web, check out: http://www.sequential.com/cross.htm . But, to me, the price is a tad high. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 3:37 PM Subject: RE: Apple - PC > ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison > From cad at gamewood.net Thu Mar 19 07:39:26 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: More of Sam's Rantings Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) References: <3.0.1.16.19980318184317.3a7ff698@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980319075538.3a179ed4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3511200E.3615@gamewood.net> Joe wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Well Sam's not going to let it drop. I have not replied to the last > three of his messages in order to try and let this die down but he's > determined to continue try a prevoke a response. Now he apparently thinks > that it's inappropriate to post anything about the operation of this list > (unless he posts it, of course). But I won't bother to responde to his > rantings. I'll just post it here and you can use your own judgement. > > Joe > I read somewhere, (and it seemed to have the weight of 'COMMON SENSE' going for it), that ANY discussion of 'list operation', carried on within said 'list', was "On Topic". Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Mar 19 07:59:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this... Message-ID: <13340923134.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Hmm... I see one party causing the problem... *clickity click* One copy, Ami-chan no hatsukoi, check mqueue, give it time... Ah, darn, stopped in the queue. "sendmail -q"... we have a flakey link here... OK. Sam won't be reading email for a while... BTW, That's *NOT* a mail bomb. He asked for it. I've been ^Qing thru all that crap all morning, and I'm sick of it. He wasted a lot of my time, so I'll waste a few of his. Besides, it's only about... *clicky click* 39 meg. ------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Mar 19 09:10:15 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <5c21b225.35113559@aol.com> the trackstar was made years ago in the late 1980s. in fact, radio shack used to have it in the catalog for sale! you might want to check out ebay.com as they did have some of these cards for ~$20 about two months ago. it's a full length isa card that you plug a standard disk ][ into. dont know about video though. supposedly they were quite compatible and one could run just about anything on that card. david, CONTINUING to delete 99+44/100% of ccmp posts... In a message dated 98-03-19 08:05:04 EST, you write: << Just out of curiorisity, were these made by Diamond Multimedia, the ones that now make the modems, video cards, DVD drives, etc.? What are the chances of finding one? Around how much would they cost? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison >> From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Mar 19 09:12:39 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: I have a polite request... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319071239.00e22df0@mail.jps.net> And that request is: Would Sam, Wirehead Prime, and 'Joe' PLEASE move your mass argument to private E-mail? You can bash each other all you want over there. If the noise level doesn't drop soon, I may fade away as well. Gad, Usenet is less noisy at the moment... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Mar 19 09:32:51 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Web page lists Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319073251.00e45d40@mail.jps.net> Hi, folks, Like most of the list subscribers, I'm a scrounge. To this end, I've placed on my web page listings of electronics and computer-related surplus stores and swap meets in Washington and (northern, Bay Area) California. Oregon (Portland and Vicinity) will be added as soon as I can swing a survey trip there. Hoping these listings may be of use to at least a couple of you, the URL is: http://www2.jps.net/~kyrrin Or... http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin Enjoy... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 19 09:39:59 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Bulk erased SyQuest carts WAS: Re: DING DING! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319093959.00b76df0@pc> I've got a spare SQ 555 as well as about a dozen carts that I'd be willing to let go... a trade for something nifty would be great! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 19 09:39:57 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319093957.00bf6e20@pc> Joe Thiemann wrote: >A private news server is a Bad Thing for those of us sitting at >work with a firewall inbetween ourselves and the net. I do not think I >will have much success convincing the firewall admins to allow news >traffic to go through. You're behind a firewall that doesn't let you read news? Why do your admins let you read mail - why, you could read a *virus* by accident! :-) Russ Blakeman >Good idea in a way but my days back as a SysOp on my own private Fidonet BBS >shows these closed areas/news servers to be VERY boring. I've been on Compuserve since the early 80s, and I tend to like their style of management. The forum managers tend to rule with a very light hand, in the style of a good bartender. (Another factor I believe helped raise the quality of patron was CIS's $/hour fees. :-) Sam wrote: >Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a >few issues to a vote. Huh? "Supporters of democracy deserve to get it, good and hard." Please, Sam, it's within your ken to set up and administer a mailing list, and you can even moderate it, which will probably take more than an hour a day, and people will complain when you don't do it fast enough. Sound like fun yet? Life being what it is, you'll probably revert to the "sit back and let the flames die on their own" approach to list management, which works pretty well, considering the alternatives. Tony Duell wrote: > After all, I've been talking about Weller soldering >irons, HP LogicDarts (which are far too new to be called classics), >ASR33's (which, although old, are not computers), etc. I'm sorry. I had no idea that my questions about the ASR-33 would be considered off-topic by anyone. My 70s computer experiences were nearly defined by I/O through these beasts, and they were certainly a popular interface for DEC and S-100 era computers, so I thought they were supremely on-topic! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 19 09:40:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319094028.00bf0db0@pc> Jack Harper wrote: >Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along >with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. > Does anyone on the List have >any experience or have any available spare parts or documentation -- or, >most important, actual experience with Symbolics lisp machines??? I know of them from the computer graphics market. (I'd love to get one, if you have two. :-) I think the 3D modeling / rendering software was sold off to various other companies (Triple-I / Autologic) and these days at least the concept of a Lisp-based modeler can be found at www.nichimen.com . The symbolics.com domain is still registered, and by reading between the lines of some messages I found, I think it's owned by some Symbolics enthusiasts or employees in Princeton Junction, NJ. There is/was apparently a related newsgroup or mailing list. Go to www.dejanews.com and search "info.slug" (with the quotes). I found a message that said that Symbolics had laid off its last three employees just this past January, and that the lawyers are fighting over the assets. Good start on your Lisp history page. I have one for UCSD Pascal. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Mar 19 08:59:51 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: <19980319003208.7893.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803191524.JAA05276@onyx.southwind.net> I'm saving my money to buy a CatWeasel from these guys: http://www.rat.de/apd/catweasl.htm#latest They cost $100 (U.S.) but I think it will be worth it: it should be possible to support just about any disk format in existence (although current suppport is slanted towards Commodore/Amiga). Jeff > Is there a way to transfer files from an Apple II to a PC? I have a > //c. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 19 10:05:27 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Apple - PC Message-ID: <199803191605.AA25903@world.std.com> At 04:12 AM 3/19/98 GMT, Bill Richman wrote: >How many do you need? I've got about 15 that aren't doing anything >important. I bought two of the SQ drives when they first came out, >sank a bundle into the cartridges, and then they flaked out on me. >One drive had some kind of head crash and started eating cartridges, >and the other one just ceased to function. Frankly, I was not >impressed. Perhaps their new products are better. Do you know of any >way to re-format a SQ disk that has been bulk-erased? I had this >bright idea several years ago that maybe just completely clearing the >disks by bulk-erasing would be a good thing. I'm thinking now that I >obliterated some factory tracks that the drive can't reproduce. >Ideas? To tell you the truth, I don't know the first thing about these drives. I just got one for free a whilke ago and was really just wondering if the damn thing worked or not. I'll let you know what i find out tho... Les From jharper at bs2000.com Thu Mar 19 10:22:17 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <13340705320.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319092217.00b27de4@teal.csn.net> At 10:03 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >[Symbolics 3650] > >Was that the LISPMs that lived at MIT? >------- > > No -- I don't think so -- at least at the beginning. My understanding is that the original Lisp Machine was designed and built by Tom Knight at MIT back in about 1977 or so as part of his, I think, Master's thesis. 'LMI' (Lisp Machines, Inc.) was incorporated to actually produce the things -- Symbolics, Inc. was formed a bit later. Richard Greenblatt also worked on the original machine (called, as I remember, 'Cadr') and went with LMI. David Moon and a horde of other MIT Lisp hackers went with Symbolics. Everything went belly-up about 10-years ago when Lisp on standard boxes (Suns, et. al.) became fast enough to compete with the specialized microcoded hardware found in the Lisp Machines -- which were also quite expensive. I am going from memory on this -- dates etc may vary... Regards Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From jharper at bs2000.com Thu Mar 19 10:24:49 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <199803181901.LAA23738@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319092449.00b28570@teal.csn.net> At 11:01 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >> Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along >> with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. With luck, I hope to get this >> beast back to life -- it apparently worked prior to being shipped to me (by >> truck) but I obviously expect some problems. Does anyone on the List have > >Congratulations! I wish I could be of some help -- I recently passed >up the chance to take home a Symbolics 3670, and I -really- wish I had, >because I think it ended up getting scrapped. *sob!* I have been looking for a Symbolics machine to *try* to coax back to life for a long time -- finally found this one for the cost of shipping. Very glad to have the guy. > >Unfortunately, I can't give any good specifics about this machine, since >I've never worked with one. But I'm looking forward to hearing from >you as you go through the process of getting it up and running. Keep >us posted on your progress! Slowly but surely... > >> I am slowly building an 'Ancient Lisp' >> web page (http//www.bs2000.com/talos/7090.htm is the beginning) that will, >> hopefully, document as fully as possible the earliest days (1956-1963) of >> Lisp with McCarthy and the other pioneers. The page is, at the moment, a > >Excellent work! Thanks for pointing it out to us. I'm looking forward >to reading it as it gets going :) > >-Seth > > BTW -- Thank's for the welcome to the Group... Regards Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From jharper at bs2000.com Thu Mar 19 10:29:16 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980318161655.39e748b8@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19980318104149.00b4a384@teal.csn.net> <3.0.1.16.19980318094103.30877dda@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319092916.00b2aa20@teal.csn.net> At 16:16 3/18/98, you wrote: >Jack, > > Welcome to the list. Thank You.. > >> >>BTW -- The Symbolics 3650 is fairly large box -- 3' tall, 1.5' wide, 4' >>deep (about) -- the thing weights several hundred pounds. >> > Ohhh! I'll bet your wife will *love* that! Haw -- It lives, believe it or not in my office. I live in the Rocky Mountains (7800' elevation) so it will hopefully keep me warm when I get it powered up. Regarding my wife -- I also restore vintage vacuum tube radio gear (transmitters & receivers circa 1955-1965) and have a number of nice pieces that I have saved from the dumpster and brought back to life (photo at httm//www.bs2000.com/talos/vintage.htm if interested) so my wife has learned (I think/hope) to live with at least some of my foibles... > > Joe > > > Regards Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From prp at hf.intel.com Thu Mar 19 11:29:27 1998 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. and Toobs! References: <199803190802.AAA24031@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <351155F7.DF7667BF@hf.intel.com> > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:41:49 -0700 > From: Jack Harper > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Symbolics 3650.. > > Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along > with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. With luck, I hope to get this > beast back to life -- it apparently worked prior to being shipped to me (by > truck) but I obviously expect some problems. Does anyone on the List have > any experience or have any available spare parts or documentation -- or, > most important, actual experience with Symbolics lisp machines??? I also have a big Symbolics and supposedly some documentation, but I haven't opened any of the boxes so I don't know whats there. I don't have any experience with these machines and don't expect to be able to try mine any time soon, but other than that would be happy to share experiences. I also have contacts in a shop that ran them fairly recently, but they are a startup (of sorts) so don't have spare time to hold our hands. Corresponded with a fellow who has a complete listing of LISP 1.5, we talked about how to get it into machine readable form so it could run on a 7090 emulator. Definitely something I'd like to see happen. If you run across any LISP on 7-track tape I can read it. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:12:28 -0500 (EST) > From: William Donzelli > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Toobs! > > I now have sitting on my desk six modules from an IBM 700 series > mainframe, destined for the Mill at RCS/RI. Of course, six modules does > not make a computer, but I think we should at least try them out, just to > see how badly they perform. If they are from a 704, 705 or 709 or ancillary equipment I may have module diagrams. Look for a 4-digit number rubber stamped on the metal on the tube side, also there may be a 6-digit part number. To get an idea of what machine they might be from list the tube types. For instance, the higher performance 704/709 modules used mostly 5965's in the processor. Also look at the parts on the sides, logic modules have resistors and lots of diodes and maybe a few inductors. Other modules will have few or no diodes. One common module from card equipment has a small double row of core memory in the middle near the connector. Paul Pierce http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Mar 18 06:54:56 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: IMSAI goodies available for trade In-Reply-To: References: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 17, 98 11:35:30 pm Message-ID: <199803191755.MAA20051@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 Mar 98 at 18:47, Tony Duell wrote: > BTW, I was digging in one of many many bookcases and I came across a book > called 'The S100 Handbook'. The back of it contains schematics for a > number of classic S100 cards - Imsai, MITS, Vector Graphics, Tarbell, > etc. Quite an interesting read. > Yeah, I've had that for a number of years. Authored by one Dave Bursky in 1980. Lots of nice pics. architecture and 8080 programming section as well as the S-100 standards and pinouts. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From bcw at u.washington.edu Thu Mar 19 12:25:59 1998 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Running Classiccmp Message-ID: Yesterday I began talking to people about taking over list functions. The response has been amazing and overwhelming. Before making any decisions, I am going to go over the list archives and attempt to read the list for a week or two to get a feel for what's going on. If you have strong feelings about how the list should be run, or by whom it should be run, please e-mail me directly. -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 From bcw at u.washington.edu Thu Mar 19 12:30:46 1998 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Confidential E-mail Message-ID: If I send any of you messages, I would expect that they will be held in confidentiality. I will certainly give the list a chance to input before making any decisions. If I wished to communicate to everyone, I would post to the list. -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Mar 19 12:28:25 1998 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (Enrico Tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers References: <199803190455.XAA06354@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <351163C5.81C25319@ndirect.co.uk> Captain Napalm wrote: > To subscribe, send a message to classiccomp-request@lists.armigeron.com > with a subject line of 'subscribe' (you might want to put this on the first > line of the body as well). That's it. You'll then recieve a welcome > message describing the rules and regulations of the list, as well as the > unsubscribe rules. If you don't like the rules, we can talk, or you can > walk. Hallo I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off topic than either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do not agree move away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and policing: they should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time again that centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come to and end (often abruptedly). Regards enrico ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== From peacock at simconv.com Thu Mar 19 13:02:09 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers Message-ID: <00e101bd5369$84f3bec0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Enrico Tedeschi wrote: >I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. > >In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off topic than >either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do not agree move >away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and policing: they >should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time again that >centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come to and end >(often abruptedly). Good heavens, another libertarian anarchist. It's people like you who build computers in your garage instead of accepting that only billion dollar corporations have the resources to build computer products. Where would Bill Gates be today if he believed in ideals like that? Why, he'd be worth billions of dollars....hmm....wait a second, that didn't come out right. Jack Peacock From david at hookham.force9.co.uk Wed Mar 18 15:19:01 1998 From: david at hookham.force9.co.uk (David Hookham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft&Windows Message-ID: <006601bd5370$e3fd1ae0$cd85a6c3@arthur> From: Charles E. Fox To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: 16 March 1998 22:51 Subject: Microsoft&Windows > At the risk of getting incinerated, I would like to put in my two bits on >the great MS debate. > You fellows tend to resemble a lot of Grand Prix drivers running down >Fords and Chevvies. What it comes right down to is that there are a whole >bunch of people who are doing useful things with computers who would not be >if they had to depend on the equipment and software that was available >before PC's, Mac's, MS-Dos and Windows. > I saw the same thing with the introduction of self threading 16mm >projectors about twenty five years ago. The National Film Board of Canada >banned them because they chewed up film, but they made it possible for >thousands of teachers to use film in their classes. > Someday possibly we can run our modern computers with an operating system >that comes on one single sided floppy, but until then lets appreciate what >we have. Hey, we've already had that - it was called DOS (albeit versions prior to about 5.0) ;-p ------------------------------------------------- - ICQ: 9761376 page 9761376@pager.mirabilis.com - - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/9761376 - ------------------------------------------------- It is much easier to suggest solutions when you know nothing about the problem From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Mar 19 14:05:09 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35187a03.3089750@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:33:55 -0600 (CST), you said: >If Sam gets to host/moderate/control the list - most of us are gone! >And I mean the backbone of the list - just read the replys to Sams little >tirade. I'll stick around for a few days to see what happens, but am exploring other resources now. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Mar 19 14:06:58 1998 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (Enrico Tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers References: <00e101bd5369$84f3bec0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <35117ADB.AAF0B296@ndirect.co.uk> Here we go again......you'll never learn from past experience, will you? enrico Jack Peacock wrote: > > Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > >I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. > > > >In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off > topic than > >either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do > not agree move > >away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and > policing: they > >should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time > again that > >centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come > to and end > >(often abruptedly). > > Good heavens, another libertarian anarchist. It's people like > you who build computers in your garage instead of accepting that > only billion dollar corporations have the resources to build > computer products. Where would Bill Gates be today if he > believed in ideals like that? Why, he'd be worth billions of > dollars....hmm....wait a second, that didn't come out right. > Jack Peacock -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== From aaron at lafleur.wfi-inc.com Thu Mar 19 16:23:41 1998 From: aaron at lafleur.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: VAXStation Terminal Help Needed Message-ID: <199803192223.OAA03973@lafleur.wfi-inc.com> Hi, Can one of the vaxheads help me with this one.... I have a 3100 who's monitor just died and I want to use a terminal emulator for it until I replace the monitor (should be here in a few days). I know that I have to change one of the dip switches inside but which??? And what's the pinout of the serial printer port (that *is* also the terminal output, right?) ??? I'd kill to get my hands on some original documentation/manuals for either my 3100's or 3200. BTW, the 3100 in question is a 38. Thanks, Aaron From simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 13:45:08 1998 From: simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk (Simon Coombs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: Hi there, guys. I've been lurking on this list for a good long while now, and some of the recent talk of Northstar crates actually prompted me to dig one out that I had aquired a good few years ago and promptly forgotten about...! Does anyone have any idea what sort of RAM cards the Horizon likes to play with? My system already has an (albeit flakey) RAM-16 card, and I have the remains of an old Godbout Econoram-II card, sans about half its chips. I have *no* idea whether this card was ever used with the N*. The machine is not in great condition, bless it; it seems to have been robbed of a couple of voltage regulators at some point in the past, and the full-height 5.25 drives are, I fear, past their best, and shall be retired gracefully. I think that the PSU could do with some adjustment, too; if anyone in the UK has schematics for any of these bits, and would be willing to make copies in exchange for money or eternal gratitude, please let me know! Still, despite it's problems, I suppose I should at least be grateful that I have at least found a manufacturer of hard-sectored diskettes! [1] Thanks. Simon. -- Simon Coombs simon@nenevr.demon.co.uk Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low. CP/M - The once and future O/S! [1] Or, at least, they still were as of Jul 97. From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 19 14:39:17 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computer Message-ID: <1998Mar19.153817.1767.90001@smtp.itgonline.com> Let's all take a minute to digest a new daily affirmation/mantra: Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computers.... Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's don't have an led pictured). Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. Thanks- Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 3:19 PM Here we go again......you'll never learn from past experience, will you? enrico Jack Peacock wrote: > > Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > >I feel that ANY rule in ANY organization is wrong. > > > >In the case of mailing lists or newsgroups if messages are off > topic than > >either the senders are not answered OR the recipients who do > not agree move > >away from that list or newsgroup. There no need to police and > policing: they > >should be self adjusting. History has proved time and time > again that > >centralized and fascist societies do not last long and do come > to and end > >(often abruptedly). > > Good heavens, another libertarian anarchist. It's people like > you who build computers in your garage instead of accepting that > only billion dollar corporations have the resources to build > computer products. Where would Bill Gates be today if he > believed in ideals like that? Why, he'd be worth billions of > dollars....hmm....wait a second, that didn't come out right. > Jack Peacock -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: ======================================================== ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.151936.1767.32963; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:19:36 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA19677; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:26 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA33526 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:08 -0800 Received: from andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (andromeda.ndirect.co.uk [194.74.254.17]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA08134 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:06 -0800 Received: from ndirect.co.uk (th-pm01-62.ndirect.co.uk [195.7.225.126]) by andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07413 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:06:01 GMT Message-Id: <35117ADB.AAF0B296@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:06:58 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Enrico Tedeschi To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computers References: <00e101bd5369$84f3bec0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 19 15:13:42 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:51 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <1998Mar19.161252.1767.90026@smtp.itgonline.com> Simon, how timely of you. I just acquired a NorthStar Horizon yesterday which uses four 64KB memory boards (parity). Each board has four 9 chip rows of 16KB dram. I haven't got the documentation for this machine yet, the previous owner has it in storage with software as well (he claims) and said he might have it for me by next week. I'll let you know more details when I get the docs. Marty Mintzell marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 3:50 PM Hi there, guys. I've been lurking on this list for a good long while now, and some of the recent talk of Northstar crates actually prompted me to dig one out that I had aquired a good few years ago and promptly forgotten about...! Does anyone have any idea what sort of RAM cards the Horizon likes to play with? My system already has an (albeit flakey) RAM-16 card, and I have the remains of an old Godbout Econoram-II card, sans about half its chips. I have *no* idea whether this card was ever used with the N*. The machine is not in great condition, bless it; it seems to have been robbed of a couple of voltage regulators at some point in the past, and the full-height 5.25 drives are, I fear, past their best, and shall be retired gracefully. I think that the PSU could do with some adjustment, too; if anyone in the UK has schematics for any of these bits, and would be willing to make copies in exchange for money or eternal gratitude, please let me know! Still, despite it's problems, I suppose I should at least be grateful that I have at least found a manufacturer of hard-sectored diskettes! [1] Thanks. Simon. -- Simon Coombs simon@nenevr.demon.co.uk Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low. CP/M - The once and future O/S! [1] Or, at least, they still were as of Jul 97. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.155025.1767.32971; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:50:25 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA05533; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:33:18 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA21170 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:32:48 -0800 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [193.195.0.154]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id MAA12994 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:32:47 -0800 Received: from nenevr.demon.co.uk ([158.152.207.39]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1021057; 19 Mar 98 20:01 GMT Received: (from simon@localhost) by nenevr.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/v3.2) id TAA13790; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:45:08 GMT Message-Id: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:45:08 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Simon Coombs To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Northstar S100 compatability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Thu Mar 19 15:20:37 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) Message-ID: <199803192120.VAA20232@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-18 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:56:43 GMT :> yep, they're quick disks. and they probably belong in the same :>bucket as sinclair's microdrive and phi mag's floopy tape (anyone :>else remember this one?) - nice tries that just couldn't keep up, :>either in cost, capacity or genericity. :Re: phi mag's floppy tape: Didn't this resemble that old :TRS-80 hack the 'stringy floppy'? I used to have one of those when :I was a kid (the TRS-80 Stringy Floppy before I could afford a real :5 1/4" drive), and still remember it fondly. It was a pretty cool :little unit. ditto the sinclair microdrives, which were about the size of an old 50p piece (oh, erm... about one and a half times a quarter?) and stored 100k in a ql. they were 2 track, 1/16" tapes - does anyone know the magnetic format in which they stored data? was one track datat and one track clock, or...? they were *sooo* cute :> it's just a shame they were also rather unreliable. most qls have disk drives and ours is soon to acquire one. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Mar 19 15:47:28 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Old manuals free in Canada Message-ID: Found on usenet - I assume that 40 years old makes them on topic ;-) (Sorry about the delay, message bounced twice because I couldn't type the address properly) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:38:39 -0500, in comp.misc "John H. Lindsay" wrote: >I'm in the process of trying to retire, and I have a collection >of computer manuals that go back to the I.B.M. 650 and 1620 >in the mid-late 1950's and run to, say, 10 years ago. This >stuff is History, and it shouldn't be thrown out. It needs a >good home - a computer archive, library, or museum, >Canadian preferred, but if one doesn't materialize, I'll consider >other possibilities. > >Ideas, suggestions or recommendations, anyone ? > >-- >John H. Lindsay lindsay-j@rmc.ca >Department of Mathematics and Computer Science >ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OF CANADA >P O BOX 17000 STN FORCES >KINGSTON ON K7K 7B4 CANADA > >Phone: (613) 541-6000--1--6419 >Fax: (613) 541-6584 From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 19 16:23:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <199803192223.AA06433@world.std.com> < Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon < sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to < those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller < driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard < drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. < Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a < lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later They are good workhorse s100 machines. < production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the < Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's < don't have an led pictured). They all did, only the proto didn't. < Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would < appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. I built mine in early 1978 and it's celebrating it's 20th year! What do you need to know. Northstar* is long gone. The hardware refuses to die. Allison From bcw at u.washington.edu Thu Mar 19 16:25:22 1998 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: More List Operation Stuff Message-ID: Well, pretty soon you're all going to get sick of hearing from me, so this will be the last listop stuff I post for a couple days. I read back through a couple weeks of archive and I'm still letting thst digest. For the time being, I've decided not to make any decisions ;) It seems a little common sense and courtesy would go a long way in bringing this list back on track. I'm not so sure that hard-core officiating would make any difference. It would probably just spawn arguments defending the honor and freedom of listmembers (heads up aspiring list operators - that's a lesson I learned the hard way). Even when I was actively moderating this list, all I looked at was whether or not subjects were about classic computers or not. If it goes a little off track, all right. If that continues for too long, a polite message to the parties involved usually retires the thread to private mail. If you think about what you're going to post to the list for a minute or two, you'll know whether or not it will be well received. Spend that time. This list is for recreation. You should be on it because you think classic computers are fun. All of you are people with a common recreational interest - there's no reason to get nasty with each other. If you don't like certain people or topics, just delete them and focus on what you like. If you can't find anything you like, maybe this is not the list for you. I'm getting off my soapbox now. Thanks to all who have sent me their input. Keep it coming. I will lecture you more next week ;) -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 From CharlesII at nwonline.net Thu Mar 19 15:38:04 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Pesky atari modem Message-ID: I have a problem with an Atari 1030 modem. While I can receive everything correct on the Atari modem I am not able to receive anything transmitted from it to another computer correctly. All I get from the Atari modem is binary garbage. Can anyone help me? BTW dose anyone have any spare Atari cables remember they have 13 pins. On another note I've noticed that flea markets are a pretty good place to find classic computers. From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Mar 19 16:46:29 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about Message-ID: <1998Mar19.174511.1767.90055@smtp.itgonline.com> Allison, thanks for the reply. I am hoping to get full docs from the previous owner (which should answer most technical questions) but am very interested in learning about the history of the company itself. I read everything I can find on early microcomputer companies and find it fascinating reading. Thanks again- Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 5:30 PM < Vintage computer: I just became the custodian of a NorthStar Horizon < sporting four (count 'em) massive 64KB ram boards. Giving breath to < those memory boards is a four port serial board, a floppy controller < driving a 5 1/4" full height floppy drive, and a ST-506 interface hard < drive controller driving a hdd which I don't as yet have identified. < Of course it is powered by a Z-80A workhorse. This baby also sports a < lovely brushed aluminum front panel and I believe is one of the later They are good workhorse s100 machines. < production model Horizons as it has a red led on the front panel (the < Horizons I've seen in the old Byte Magazines from the late 1970's < don't have an led pictured). They all did, only the proto didn't. < Does anybody have any details on the history of NorthStar? I would < appreciate any ideas on where I might reseach their history. I built mine in early 1978 and it's celebrating it's 20th year! What do you need to know. Northstar* is long gone. The hardware refuses to die. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.173055.1767.32996; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:30:56 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id OAA01985; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:24:48 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA42646 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:23:19 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id OAA03305 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:23:16 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA13386; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06520; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199803192223.AA06520@world.std.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:23:14 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about computer X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From jmg at iac.net Thu Mar 19 16:54:42 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Bill a TRS-80 fan? (Was Re: More List Operation Stuff) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199803192254.RAA03211@mail.iac.net> Question: Is Bill using a TRS-80 here? I think I see 64 cols per line formatting, hmmmmmmmmmm........... -jmg > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:25:22 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > From: Bill Whitson > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: More List Operation Stuff > > Well, pretty soon you're all going to get sick of > hearing from me, so this will be the last listop > stuff I post for a couple days. > From jmg at iac.net Thu Mar 19 16:59:43 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Hasbro buys ATARI Message-ID: <199803192259.RAA03348@mail.iac.net> This is old news. The ATARI newsgroups have been full of this for the last couple of weeks, so I'm sure most folks here know about it. However, Hasbro recently came out with an announcement stating that they are going to re-release old games such as Centipede just like they rereleased an updated 'Frogger.' A core ATARI constituancy still exists who would like Hasbro to update the ST hardware line. With clone European makers _still_ manufacturing ST compatible machines, and Gateway 2000's purchase of the Amiga line, one might think this could be a profitable move for Hasbro. Looks like they don't see it that way howver. What a shame. Both *BSD and Linux run on this hardware line and I _really_ want a decent alternative to PC hardware available which is also designed with <*cough*> games in mind (hey, I may be an adult but I still like videogames!) Maybe a letter writing campaign to Hasbro could help change their mind? Anyone else here fond of the old ATARI computer line and share my enthusiasm? J. Maynard Gelinas From jmg at iac.net Thu Mar 19 17:02:24 1998 From: jmg at iac.net (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Notice: comp.os.cpm article, old BYTE issues for sale. In-Reply-To: <199803192254.RAA03211@mail.iac.net> (jmg@iac.net) Message-ID: <199803192302.SAA03421@mail.iac.net> I don't know this person and can't vouch for his authenticity, but I saw this on comp.os.cpm and thought there might be several folks here interested if they haven't noticed the message. ------------------ Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:52:43 comp.os.cpm Thread 13 of 29 Lines 35 FS: Byte Magazines No responses Boyd.Stere@ab.com Boyd Stere at Rockwell Automation / Allen-Bradley Co. Well, I've still got about 3 copier paper boxes full of old Byte magazines that will go in the recycling bin if no one wants them. Last fall I sold all of the volume 1 and some volume 2 to readers of this list, so now all I have left is volume 2 and later. I will wait a week to see what offers I receive before I close any deals. I would prefer to deal with folks in the continental US and it will have to be payment in advance of shipment. I get the corporate rate for UPS, or I can send them via the post office. Please realize that if you just want to pay the shipping and get them for free, I won't be interested. You've got to make it worth my while to pack these up and ship them out. These magazines are in very good readable condtion, they have been stored in either basement or unheated garage, but they are not perfect. I will want to receive payment in advance of shipment. Boyd Stere blstere@ra.rockwell.com (3-16-98) Volume 2: issues 2-12 (issue 2 is readable, but has some water damage) Volume 3: issues 1-12 Volume 3: issues 3-12 Volume 4: issues 1-12 Volume 4: issues 1-9,11,12 Volume 5: issues 1-12 volume 5: issues 1-12 Volume 6: issues 1-12 Volume 6: issues 1-5 Volume 7: issues 1-12 Volume 8: issues 1,2,4 From peacock at simconv.com Thu Mar 19 17:17:26 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: On Flames and Mailing lists, and a bit about Message-ID: <022501bd538d$2e853d60$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Marty wrote: > very interested in learning about the history of the company itself. I > read everything I can find on early microcomputer companies and find > it fascinating reading. Northstar got its start, I think in late 1976, with one of the first affordable and reliable floppy disk systems for S-100s. It used the then brand new 5.25" floppy disk Shugart had just started making, matched to an S-100 controller board. Up to that time all the floppy systems were based on 8" floppies, which went for, oh, around $1000-$1500 for a drive (and weren't very reliable either). The NS drive was very cheap in comparison, I think around $500, but bets of all you just put it in the box and it worked, very rare for S-100 machines in that timeframe. The drive was single density, single sided, hard sectored with 10 sectors of 256 bytes each, total around 90KB. Paltry compared to the 243KB on an 8" drive, but infinitely better than a Tarbell cassette interface. The drive came with a crude operating system (CP/M didn't work right away because of hardware problems with the boot ROM on the NS controller) and Basic. Eventually Lifeboat got a version of CP/M working with the drive. After the floppy subsystem, NS came out with a unique S-100 floating point coprocessor board. This was actually a sort of bit slice state machine that did BCD arithmetic. A very clever design but somewhat difficult to use. It was fast for it's time. The only software that used it (to my knowledge) was the NS basic and I think one of the CBASIC or PASCAL compilers (Sorcim?). NS made enough from their floppy systems that they started making whole machines, the Horizon and later the Advantage. As with all the S-100 companies, PC's killed them off. Jack Peacock From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 19 17:28:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: IBM mainframe equipment (repost from another source) Message-ID: <3511AA0A.994F52A4@bbtel.com> There's a person on the Obsolete Computer Helpline at http://ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/helpline/helpline.htm that writes the following: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Anybody looking for some IBM mainframe equipment? Let me know what item you're looking for. --------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:mkoch@mw.mediaone.net is his email contact address. No name other than "Mike" was posted. I thought that maybe someone in the list might be interested.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Mar 19 18:23:26 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: More: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <19980319162326.0b633c15.in@mail.pressstart.com> I have to admit that I'm flame virgin, but it looks like fun so I'll give it a shot. I can't believe so many on the ClassicCmp List don't subscribe to the digest! That was the first thing I did.(Change over to the digest) I can't be sorting through 40-50 messages to find the work related one that need to be answered right away. And frankly, collecting computers is a hobby for me, one of many, and this is not the only digest I subscribe to.(Even though it's the one that takes most of my mail reading time.) Yesterday's digest came in SIX parts. In the last year thats nearly the record. Page after page of the same e-mail quoted again and agin. BUT I'm not complaining, instead I suggest that MAYBE the ClassicCmp List should default to digest when subscribing. I think that a digest allows people the time to think out their responses. Many of you are the CP/M-List, this is a good example. You may have to wait 24 hours for a response, but usually it a very thoughtful one. And I think its because (as I remember) CP/M-L defaulted to digest and it just become a slower paced discussion. Also with a digest there is no reason to quote someone in entirety (You just read the other message). You do have to cut and paste, so you're more selective. It true than I'm sometimes 24 hours late on a computer for sale. But then again everybody want to auction off their computers anymore. Well that my humble opinion. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 11:58:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <35149a3e.286162509@hoser> from "Bill Richman" at Mar 19, 98 04:12:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/7c82d6a9/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 19 18:24:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 19, 98 05:58:17 pm Message-ID: <9803200024.AA00199@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 607 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/efc54b73/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 11:55:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Robots again In-Reply-To: <3ca1e4e4.351092b9@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE" at Mar 18, 98 10:36:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/e3206b30/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 13:50:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980319093957.00bf6e20@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 19, 98 09:39:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3340 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/f440b8b5/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Thu Mar 19 18:35:40 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Cleaning up classic books Message-ID: Many of the old computer books I get from thrift stores have the price of the book written in grease pencil on the inside cover of the book. I'd like to remove this safely. Can someone point me to the right place to find this sort of information? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 11:47:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC 1 Drive C: In-Reply-To: <35108374.70F375FA@mcs.com> from "The Adept" at Mar 18, 98 08:31:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/ebfd17d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 17:21:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...) In-Reply-To: <199803192120.VAA20232@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "lisard@zetnet.co.uk" at Mar 19, 98 09:20:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1171 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/dbf5a21b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 17:53:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <9803200024.AA00199@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 19, 98 04:24:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 527 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/868c749e/attachment.ksh From jharper at bs2000.com Thu Mar 19 13:43:26 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. and Toobs! In-Reply-To: <351155F7.DF7667BF@hf.intel.com> References: <199803190802.AAA24031@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980319124326.007871d4@teal.csn.net> At 09:29 3/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Subject: Symbolics 3650.. > >> >> Question - I very recently obtained a Symbolics 3650 lisp machine -- along >> with six large boxes of associated 'stuff'. With luck, I hope to get this >> beast back to life -- it apparently worked prior to being shipped to me (by >> truck) but I obviously expect some problems. Does anyone on the List have >> any experience or have any available spare parts or documentation -- or, >> most important, actual experience with Symbolics lisp machines??? > >I also have a big Symbolics and supposedly some documentation, but I >haven't opened any of the boxes so I don't know whats there. I don't >have any experience with these machines and don't expect to be able to >try mine any time soon, but other than that would be happy to share >experiences. I also have contacts in a shop that ran them fairly >recently, but they are a startup (of sorts) so don't have spare time to >hold our hands. I will be cataloging the contents of the six boxes of 'stuff' that I have within, hopefully, the week. Am curious -- where did you get your Symbolics and do you know what the model number is? > >Corresponded with a fellow who has a complete listing of LISP 1.5, we >talked about how to get it into machine readable form so it could run on >a 7090 emulator. Definitely something I'd like to see happen. If you run >across any LISP on 7-track tape I can read it. That is, I think, me -- Paul, we were last in contact almost a year ago... I am still, slowly, working on the 7090 emulator and hope to have it alive sometime this year... Regards Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From maynard at jmg.com Thu Mar 19 20:46:26 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: mail problems Message-ID: Folks, I'm in an mx record tangle with my primary nameserver (which of course, I don't admin). If you can get your nameserver to kill the TTL on it's cache you'll get me, otherwise it's going to bounce until the TTL ends. I've unsub'd from classiccmp to prevent any bounces (I assume there were bounces <*cringe*>?). Will subscribe back once this is straightened out.... J. Maynard Gelinas From maynard at jmg.com Thu Mar 19 21:02:37 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: whoa there... Message-ID: Jeesh folks, I'm really sorry about this. It may take some time for your local DNS servers to update their cache. Until that time the Admin at my remote ISP (the guys maintaining my DNS records), have set up a sendmail virtusertable to forward mail from their local mail server (see www.sendmail.org if this is greek to you). OK, so if any bounce messages wound up on the mailing list it should stop now.... J. Maynard Gelinas From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Mar 19 20:10:06 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 19, 98 11:53:18 pm Message-ID: <9803200210.AA00547@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1017 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980319/c5ef140a/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Mar 19 20:24:17 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: What I think to be a good idea... Message-ID: <004d01bd53a7$979f8660$89c9fea9@office1> On the list, Don was talking about the MicroSolutions MatchPoint card, which, with its associated software, permitted reading and writing Apple disks on a standard PC drive, and another hardware item I can 't remember at this time. Here's my idea. Why can't we contact those vendors that are still in {corporate} existence and who at one time produced interesting and useful hardware or software (examples would be MicroSolutions, or CentralPoint), and try to purchase, for nominal $$$, the rights to produce and distribute these goods in small quantities. Although it would take some of the sport out of trying to locate a MatchPoint card, for example, it would enable us to produce these tools for ourselves, thus becoming self-sufficient in a way. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 18:37:47 1998 From: simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk (Simon Coombs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability In-Reply-To: <199803192223.AA06433@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > > Ram16 or ram17, any 8k/16k/64k static ram cards all work and may of the > dynmaic ram cards that have local (on card refresh). The NS* was pretty > clean so most memory bords worked well. The econoram-11 and the ram16 > both work. The ram16 should be easy to fix it's static and uses 2kx8 > parts. Hmm; I'm glad to hear that the N* isn't *too* fussy about the memory cards it plays with - it makes the job of finding spares a whole lot easier! Regards repairs to the existing boards, I may well end up admitting defeat in the short term - if it's a duff 4027 chip, I'm stuffed - there's 32 of 'em to choose from! > > Northstar* PSU requires adjustment???? The Horizon used three terminal > FIXED REGULATORS. Unless you mean 120v/240v wiring of the mains > transformer. Well, the mains transformer is wired OK; it happily takes the 240V in and spits out something (?) like 8VAC, 16VAC and respectively. The 16VAC then goes through what I assume is a bridge rectifier, and out comes approx. +32VDC and -32VDC. The snag *is* that it's meant to be supplying 16, not 32v! The 8v rail, fortunately, is fine. Methinks that the previous owner may have been a little naughty with the wiring; but I'm not confidant enough with electronics to play with it too much. This is one machine I don't want to risk blowing up! :) Simon -- Simon Coombs simon@nenevr.demon.co.uk Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low. CP/M - The once and future O/S! From simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 19 18:47:21 1998 From: simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk (Simon Coombs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability In-Reply-To: <1998Mar19.161252.1767.90026@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Marty wrote: > Simon, how timely of you. I just acquired a NorthStar Horizon > yesterday which uses four 64KB memory boards (parity). Each board has > four 9 chip rows of 16KB dram. I haven't got the documentation for > this machine yet, the previous owner has it in storage with software > as well (he claims) and said he might have it for me by next week. Gah! Are you trying to make me jealous or something? You're succeeding! ;) Out of interest, what would a N* want with 256K anyway? Presumably, whatever OS it is running is pretty hefty stuff! > I'll let you know more details when I get the docs. Excellent; thanks! You know, since there's a few of us, maybe we should see about giving comp.sys.northstar a bit more traffic! Alternatively, maybe we should set up a few web pages with N* info on? There's practically *nothing* out there right now - I couldn't even find an S100 bus pinout! Simon. -- Simon Coombs simon@nenevr.demon.co.uk Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low. CP/M - The once and future O/S! From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 19 22:21:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <199803200421.AA11144@world.std.com> References: <01BD5110.632F1B00@ppp-151-164-52-14.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <199803200437.PAA24891@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 07:12 PM 16-03-98 -0800, John Rollins wrote: >>Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) >What exactly is SNOBOL? The library here has two books on it, I have looked >at both and couldn't really figure much out. Well the definitive reference is "The Snobol4 Programming Language" by Griswold, Poage and Polonsky published by Prentice Hall. My copy is the second edition published in 1971. It's been 23 years since I did anything serious with Snobol and a quick look at the book didn't bring much back :-). The preface made interesting reading: "SNOBOL4 has been implemented on several different computers, including the IBM System/360, UNIVAC 1108, GE 365, CDC3600, CDC 6000 series, PDP-10, Sigma 5/6/7. Atlas 2 and RCA Spectra 70 Series". Wow, an interesting list of Classic Computers if I ever saw one... I found one web pointer of interest at http://www.mindspring.com/~viktors/snobol4.htm Sorry not to include any off-topic material :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfa keeps me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 19 22:53:32 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: <199803191605.AA25903@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319235332.00a474e0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: >I have one of these. A Diamond Trackstar 128k, has two 65c02s and 128k of >ram. It can use the standard 360k drives and the apple ones as well. >What I don't have for it is the software. Looks really neat and useful. >I don't know if it would work in anything later than an XTclass machine >and without software it's hard to determine that. Again, I'm not an Apple Junkie (but for the record I'm thinking of getting one of these boards, just for the halibut ;-) but you can buy the TrackStar E board (Apple 2E board) for $19 + $6 shipping from these guys: http://www.ahhz.com/ I am a potential customer of these guys, but nothing more... Also, if you'd like to find out more (including software drivers, Allison) try here: http://www.ahhz.com/docs/trakstar.htm They have a picture, a copy of the TrackStar FAQ, and elsewhere on the site they say there is the software available for it.... lemme go look.... http://www.ahhz.com/drivers.htm but, alas, they only seem to have the drivers for the E board (size: 169K)... Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger BTW, as stated on the page (I cannot verify this), it's a dual-processor board... a 65C02 and a Z80 to run CP/M as well... -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 19 23:55:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability In-Reply-To: References: <1998Mar19.161252.1767.90026@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980319235555.1bef6a5a@intellistar.net> At 12:47 AM 3/20/98 +0000, Simon wrote: >there right now - I couldn't even find an S100 bus pinout! Let me know if you still need one. I have one in my Altair docs. I also have the construction manual for the N* floppy controller that was sold for the S-100 machines. (Probably the same as the controller used in their own systems.) Joe From dar617 at idirect.com Thu Mar 19 23:12:29 1998 From: dar617 at idirect.com (Douglas Rea) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings Message-ID: <003c01bd53be$c85be840$c36b88cf@ns.idirect.com> I have 2 EAX6GPSC-499R cards and a FT-60 tape drive. I have just cleaned up the tape drive (the interior tape mechanism is marked Archive model #9050B) and have yet to try it as I need a tape. I also have the software to run the board and drive and they appear to work. Thanks for the info on the type of tape needed. I have three sets fo jumpers {kk(on), hh(off), ff(off), jj(off), q24(on), 45mb(on)} {3(on), 4(on), 5(on), 6(on), 7(on), 8(on), 9(off), 10(on)} {RR(off), IRQ 1thru3(3 on), DRQ 1thru3(1 on), DACK(?) 1thru3(1 on)} Doug Rea From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Mar 19 23:58:16 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Apology, Info, Etc... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980319093957.33278c12@ricochet.net> At 02:55 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever >> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. [...] >Ok fine. Until I'm able to take over ClassicCmp completely, we can put a >few issues to a vote. I thought we already decided a couple months back [...] >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions I actually stopped to notice how many e-mails I got yesterday. Over 300. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ignore all the off-topic BS (including the off-topic stuff about being off-topic and and the off-topic cat-fighting) and all the suggested changes and alternates and so on. I will continue reading whatever comes in from and will (occassionally) post messages (maybe even including the occasional off-topic one) to as if none of this had ever happened. Those that are unhappy are welcome to go off and start something new. Who knows, somewhere down the road, I might subscribe to your list/chatroom/website/whatever as well. Those that want to keep on whining, are welcome to do so. I'll delete your messages and somehow manage to go about my business without committing suicide. Those that want to talk about classic computers, great. I'll read your messages (even the bloody cax ones! 8^) and might even have something to contribute. So, if you liked it the way it was (and don't let Bill fool you, he's been doing a great job) just sit back, ignore it, and the nonsense will eventually blow over. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Mar 19 23:58:34 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Vic-20 heads-up Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980319095053.33278768@ricochet.net> Sorry for the on-topic post, but, I just wanted to let folks know that there is a guy (Ward(?) Shrake) who is archiving Vic-20 cartridges. He has a list posted on the web (and of course, I don't have URL here on the train) and is actually taking images of the cartridge ROM's for a CD-ROM (as well as scanning pictures of the labels and such.) If anyone is really interested, e-mail me and I'll dig up the URL where he's got a list of all the cartridges that were available. (If you have one that's not on the list, please let him know!) I'm proud to say that I did have one that wasn't on the list (Fun with Music, by Epyx) and am sending it, along with another (apparently incredibly rare) cart (Dot Gobbler) for him to take images of. This sort of serious, practical preservation is definitely to be commended. (I remember staying up late and playing one of the text adventures on a Vic-20 with a friend of mine. His first introduction to computers. I was happy to be able to offer him a new experience, since he had provided me with so many.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Mar 19 23:58:44 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980319095856.3327c2c8@ricochet.net> >perhaps the original requestor was thinking more in terms of >geographical areas...? sure, thrift stores, but which are your personal >favourites? etc. That would be telling. ;) But seriously, specific locations don't do much good unless you know what general area you're dealing with. (I can offer some advice for San Francisco, but I rarely leave the City, and when I do, I'm generally more interested in finding a) miniature land rovers, b) donald duck stuff, c) good food, d) good beer (not necessarily in that order.)) For San Francisco, though, the places I go are: HMR - interesting stuff, fascinating place, but know what stuff is worth. Thriftcenter (in Belmont?) - on El Camino, just south of Morrison's, the teacher store (Holly exit? off 101?) (This is the place I go when rachel says "I need more sentence strips; I'll only be 10 minutes." I know I've got an hour, and she's spend more than I will.) Nifty-Thrifty - Across from the cow palace. Lots of refurbed PC's, older PC cases, occassionally some good stuff. (Passed up a bunch of Osborne 1's for $10 each, just before I started collecting. ) All the surplus places in the Valley -- Weird Stuff, Haltek, Halted, Action, etc. That's about it, except the little thrift shop by my house that never has anything. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Mar 19 19:20:29 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Found few chips and one interesting chip. In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980319093957.33278c12@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199803200613.BAA10842@mail.cgocable.net> Oops one of email disappeared into woods of my folders and couldn't find it. One guy had list of stuff for sale or trades recently within last week or so and was asking for those 8228 chips. I'm not sure if I have that right ones because they're all pulled from IBM/clone 8088 boards. 1 x AMD 8284A 1 x Fujitsu 8284A 3 x Nec 8284AD 3 x Nec 8288D And I found one OLD chip, I can't tell head from tail; The package looked like it was made of bakelite, golden pins and it's made by Motorala. Underside, there 4 round hemispherical bumps at 4 corners but 1 under the pin 1 is setback bit. There is raised X with circular flash line (molding line seam) made by plunger. MC857P, dated '71 of 18th week. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Mar 20 05:37:08 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Vic-20 heads-up Message-ID: <001401bd53f4$84cb8d20$c027a2ce@cliffgre> I second Uncle Roger's comments. Ward is a great guy and is doing the Vic-20 community a great service. I have also contributed to the archiving and CD project. BTW, the URL is http://members.aol.com/wshrake/index.htm Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 1:55 AM Subject: Vic-20 heads-up > >Sorry for the on-topic post, but, I just wanted to let folks know that >there is a guy (Ward(?) Shrake) who is archiving Vic-20 cartridges. He has >a list posted on the web (and of course, I don't have URL here on the >train) and is actually taking images of the cartridge ROM's for a CD-ROM >(as well as scanning pictures of the labels and such.) > >If anyone is really interested, e-mail me and I'll dig up the URL where >he's got a list of all the cartridges that were available. (If you have >one that's not on the list, please let him know!) > >I'm proud to say that I did have one that wasn't on the list (Fun with >Music, by Epyx) and am sending it, along with another (apparently >incredibly rare) cart (Dot Gobbler) for him to take images of. > >This sort of serious, practical preservation is definitely to be commended. > >(I remember staying up late and playing one of the text adventures on a >Vic-20 with a friend of mine. His first introduction to computers. I was >happy to be able to offer him a new experience, since he had provided me >with so many.) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From turloughobrien at tinet.ie Fri Mar 20 06:28:40 1998 From: turloughobrien at tinet.ie (Turlough O'Brien) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: information Message-ID: <001201bd53fb$bf8fa200$30e0869f@nfwenaax> I am a student in Trinity college Dublin,Ireland.I have been assigned a project on "videotext" but there is little to no information available on the net about "Videotext" or in the libraries.I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me some informatin on the subject. Yours sincerly Turlough O'Brien. turloughobrien@tinet.ie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980320/0ab95662/attachment.html From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Mar 19 07:34:14 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980319095856.3327c2c8@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >perhaps the original requestor was thinking more in terms of >geographical areas...? sure, thrift stores, but which are your personal >favourites? etc. Garage sales would have to be the top - lots of work for little return, but the return can be excellent. The second best are user groups for some systems - here we have Apple, Atari, Commodore, Tandy and Sorceror user groups. Although people mostly want to hold on to their systems, there is always the occasional person who has one that they want to go to a good home. The third is old service centers - particularly those specialising in one manufacturer. Often they have old systems lying around that they never got round to moving. One guy I found, who had been servicing Apple ][s for around 15 years, sold me an Apple ///+, //e, ][+, Woz //gs, platinum //e, 1 meg espansion boards for the //c and a //c LCD screen for $50. In Adelaide we also have Trash and Treasures - I suppose they are the equivalent of very big car boot sales, invariably held in old drive-in theatres. I have yet to go to one and not come away with something interesting. Adam. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 20 06:57:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Found few chips and one interesting chip. Message-ID: <199803201257.AA09055@world.std.com> First, you should appeal to these thrift shops to use a pencil. Some thrift shops I haunt will pencil in the price on the inside cover, then to thwart repricers, pencil it in again on a different page. I've never had any luck removing grease pencil and have ended up smearing it. I suggest you look up the Library of Congress on the web and email them for advice if they have nothing listed for book preservation. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Cleaning up classic books Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/19/98 7:42 PM Many of the old computer books I get from thrift stores have the price of the book written in grease pencil on the inside cover of the book. I'd like to remove this safely. Can someone point me to the right place to find this sort of information? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar19.194222.1767.33023; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:42:23 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id QAA11739; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:56 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id QAA17044 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:50 -0800 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id QAA08101 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:49 -0800 Received: from shell (dastar@shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id QAA28027 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:40 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Cleaning up classic books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Classic Computer Discussion X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 20 08:38:52 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: PDP parts wanted (cross post) Message-ID: <35127F7C.5F715C91@bbtel.com> This plea for PDP items was on the "Obsolete Computer Helpline" today and form the traffic lately I'm sure someone could contact this person to give him some pointers by direct email. >Steve Hogan >Nottingham, UK - Friday, March 20, 1998 at 03:27:29 > > HELP > > I am looking for a source of spares for Digital PDP 11 computers. > > In particular, and Disk Controller and Disk Formatter cards -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 20 09:37:38 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability In-Reply-To: <199803200428.AA15145@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > It ran NSdos which was pretty lightweight. and didn't care much about > how much ram there was. It was possible to run multiuser NSdos. > > CP/M was commonly ported to it and 2.2 could be banked if you weren't > faint of heart and CPM-3 was designed for banked operation. MPM was a > multiuser cpm that also could use banked ram while running multiple > users. There was also 'Oasis', which was a multi-user / multi-tasking OS which was fairly popular on the NorthStar and Altos systems for a time. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 20 09:49:08 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980320094908.00be2100@pc> "Daniel A. Seagraves" wrote: >BTW, That's *NOT* a mail bomb. He asked for it. I've been ^Qing thru all >that crap all morning, and I'm sick of it. He wasted a lot of my time, so >I'll waste a few of his. Besides, it's only about... *clicky click* 39 meg. Daniel, mail bombs, real or implied, are a childish act. They accomplish nothing except annoyance and can cause loss of other important mail by any user on the involved systems. It's as effective as insulting your computer when your program has a bug. I thought the public posting of private messages was quite egregious, too, but Daniel didn't do that. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 20 09:06:14 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980320090614.00be36d0@pc> Tony Duell wrote: >BTW, how are you getting on with that ASR-33? Need any more help? I can >look up details for you, and attempt to describe the bits in question. I found someone who was willing to xerox the service manual for me at cost, approximately USD $4-8. Someone else wanted to sell me the set for $20. Being a "millionaire cheapskate", I took the former, assuming the latter would still be there if I needed it. :-) Along the same line, if anyone has a spare current-loop to RS-232 adapter that would cost less than a new one, I'd love to get it. I believe my Terak handles 20 ma, but I'd rather have a more generic link from the ASR-33 to other computers. >I was half -joking, don't worry. If I seriously considered that the ASR33 >was off-topic, do you think I'd type up and post sections from the repair >manuals? I very much appreciated that. Above and beyond the call of duty. I joined the "Greenkeys" mailing list, a ham radio RTTY list. I described my web page regarding old ASCII art, and one fellow sent me a box of 30-40 year-old RTTY ASCII art - pictures of President Eisenhower, etc. Some is printed, some is Baudot 5-level tape, some 7-bit tape. >Yes, that definition is very wide. It would allow mechanical >calculators and things like that (anybody got strong views on keeping >these off the list?). As a teen, I remember disassembling a Freiden (?) calculator, and finding a wire loop memory, several circles about a foot in diameter. But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 20 09:23:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Catweasel, etc. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980320092344.00bdc100@pc> "Richard A. Cini" > Here's my idea. Why can't we contact those vendors that are still in >{corporate} existence and who at one time produced interesting and useful >hardware or software (examples would be MicroSolutions, or CentralPoint), >and try to purchase, for nominal $$$, the rights to produce and distribute >these goods in small quantities. Because as soon as they think there's a buck to be made, the price will become prohibitive. :-) There's some hope for classic computers from the Catweasel people. In their FAQ, they admit knowledge of eight-inch drives, and would be willing to add support for them and their disk formats if someone loaned them a drive and some disks. The problem? They're in Germany. Andrew De Quincey recently posted some messages to various Usenet classic groups regarding a project where he's capturing the bit-level signals from a drive, and using a Java program to decode it to higher levels of representation. I've been improving my ANSI C tools for getting directories and bursting disk image files for UCSD Pascal and RT-11. Right now they work on logical-order disk images, but I want to improve them to read physical-sector-order images, as well as Anadisk's extra eight-byte sector-header format. Sadly, Anadisk doesn't work under a WinNT command shell, I have to boot back to DOS. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 20 09:14:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:52 2005 Subject: Vic-20 heads-up Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980320091405.00b25e30@pc> Uncle Roger wrote: >Sorry for the on-topic post, but, I just wanted to let folks know that >there is a guy (Ward(?) Shrake) who is archiving Vic-20 cartridges. >This sort of serious, practical preservation is definitely to be commended. What is he doing to address the question of copyright? Might not some of these titles be owned by someone? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Mar 20 09:58:13 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980320094908.00be2100@pc> Message-ID: <13341206886.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Mail Bomb] Well, lemme say this: 3 of 4 parts failed to reach their destination. It didn't take long for Sam to clear his email box, and he was NOT happy... Yes, I shouldn't have done that. It was plenty childish. ------- From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Mar 20 10:49:11 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3650.. Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980319223700.33376bd4@ricochet.net> > :[Symbolics 3650] A couple of resources I found online... The Online Symbolics Museum: http://www.brightware.com/~rwk/symbolics/ Symbolics Technical Summary: http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/symbolic-computing.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 20 12:23:11 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: information Message-ID: <002e01bd542d$3dbd7590$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Turlough O'Brien wrote: "videotext" but there is little to no information available on the net about "Videotext" or in the libraries.I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me some informatin on the subject. (This is from memory and unreliable) There was a proposed standard for North America called NAPLPS, for videotext presentation. I believe it was sponsored by Philips. If someone has a complete collection of BYTE magazines, I recall there was an issue devoted to videotext, circa 1981. The one clever feature of NAPLPS was that the graphics were based on floating point coordinates. Because screen sizes and resolutions would vary, positioning and sizing graphics was a problem. NAPLPS used a coordinate system where the width and height of the screen ranged from 0 to 1. For instance, to place a pixel in the center, you referenced coordinates (0.5, 0.5). Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation was the french minitel telephone directory. Hope this gives you a place to start. Jack Peacock -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980320/1dc06f33/attachment.html From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Mar 20 12:47:10 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: PDP parts wanted (cross post) In-Reply-To: <35127F7C.5F715C91@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 20, 98 08:38:52 am Message-ID: <9803201847.AA01896@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980320/71e9f52b/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 20 13:06:49 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <009b01bd5433$56312ad0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Well, the mains transformer is wired OK; it happily takes the 240V in and >spits out something (?) like 8VAC, 16VAC and respectively. The 16VAC then >goes through what I assume is a bridge rectifier, and out comes approx. >+32VDC and -32VDC. The snag *is* that it's meant to be supplying 16, not >32v! The 8v rail, fortunately, is fine. Are you sure you measured from the right ground? I have never seen a bridge rectifier that would take 16VAC going in, then provide +/-32VDC coming out the DC side. Connect your ground lead to pin 50 on the S-100 bus (the rightmost side, pins 50 and 100 are signal/power ground). You should see +8VDC (roughly) on bus pin 1/51, +16VDC on pin 2 (or 52, I forget which, don't have a schematic in front of me), and -16Vdc on pin 52 (or pin 2). If you still show +/-32VDC, look at the transformer, something's wrong there (you would have a 120V xfrmr instead of a 240V one). Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 20 13:14:17 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <00a201bd5434$61503180$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >Hmm; I'm glad to hear that the N* isn't *too* fussy about the memory >cards it plays with - it makes the job of finding spares a whole lot easier! > >Regards repairs to the existing boards, I may well end up admitting >defeat in the short term - if it's a duff 4027 chip, I'm stuffed - >there's 32 of 'em to choose from! > Now that's where an IMSAI front panel really paid off. You put in the card, stored an FF in the first location, the panel display show EF instead...bingo, the RAM on D4 is bad (or more likely a bent pin or upside down in socket). Jack Peacock From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Mar 20 13:21:43 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: PDP parts wanted (cross post) References: <9803201847.AA01896@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3512C1C6.60C0ADBE@bbtel.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > This plea for PDP items was on the "Obsolete Computer Helpline" today > > and form the traffic lately I'm sure someone could contact this person > > to give him some pointers by direct email. > > What, exactly, is the "Obsolete Computer Helpline"? How can I read it? http://ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/helpline/helpline.htm is where it's posted publicly. > Unfortunately, that isn't very specific. There's about 30 years of > technology span, going from fixed-head 14" disks with discrete > transistors and resistors on the logic cards to modern Q-bus SCSI > host adapters using FPGA's. You really need to write him...PDP's are not my specialty. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 20 13:20:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Since the late 60's, most servo-writing equipment uses laser interferometers > > to lay down the tracks. "Special" certainly *is* the operative word > > here! > > I'd realised it wasn't a mechanical stepper motor (nowhere near accurate > enough), but I'd not realised that it was a laser interferometer. Ouch! > > I'm suprised it has to be _that_ accurate, since surely minor errors in > track position would be compensated for by the servo system of the drive. > But I guess the makers know what they are doing. > > > > > Tim. > > > > -tony Probably more related to track density which is now well in excess of 2000tpi! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From maynard at jmg.com Fri Mar 20 15:36:04 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (maynard@jmg.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: I'm Sorry (Was Re: OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980320094908.00be2100@pc> (message from John Foust on Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:49:08 -0600) References: <3.0.1.32.19980320094908.00be2100@pc> Message-ID: <199803202136.QAA01864@mr-gateway.internal.net> > From: John Foust > Subject: Re: OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this... [snip] > > I thought the public posting of private messages was quite egregious, too, > but Daniel didn't do that. > > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum > No, I did that. One of them was a mistake, the other (from Bill) was intended. I am not completely pleased with my behavior two days ago, still, the list continues and our crisis seems over. So since we, as a list, will now have the opportunity to decide who should maintain the list in a democratic manner, what's left to do is make amends and work out the details. I've taken partisan views by involving myself in this whole mess so I am _not_ a viable candidate for list maintainer. We need to find someone else we all trust and who hasn't offended anyone. Will someone chime up? I'm hoping that Bill will let us continue to host the list on his server; I'd rather not have the list change over to a new host, it's just one more PITA to deal with. Finally, while I don't want Sam as the list maintainer, I'd like to publicly apologize to him both for some of the things I said in private email, and for one private email which I mistakenly posted publicly. Sam has made _significant_ contributions to this list and I respect him for that. I've sent him a personal apology in private email and asked him to rejoin the list. I hope others who respect Sam, and the contributions he's made to this list, will do the same. Sam, I'm sorry. Please accept my public apology for both posting private email and for jumping the gun in accusing you of censorship. I was wrong and wish to make amends. J. Maynard Gelinas From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 20 14:36:22 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: information Message-ID: <005701bd543f$d9207de0$27f438cb@nostromo> OK, I'm lucky enough to have prototypes of a videotext system using the Mattel Aquarius computer. I have hardware, and more importantly software, manuals, and some videotext specs. I've got the things the guys used to design their hardware - that is, the low level detail. I also have some 25 year old printouts of videotext screens. Rather neat. Contact me if you want copies, basically at cost - or I will dig out particular information gratis. Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Jack Peacock To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, March 21, 1998 5:20 AM Subject: Re: information Turlough O'Brien wrote: "videotext" but there is little to no information available on the net about "Videotext" or in the libraries.I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me some informatin on the subject. (This is from memory and unreliable) There was a proposed standard for North America called NAPLPS, for videotext presentation. I believe it was sponsored by Philips. If someone has a complete collection of BYTE magazines, I recall there was an issue devoted to videotext, circa 1981. The one clever feature of NAPLPS was that the graphics were based on floating point coordinates. Because screen sizes and resolutions would vary, positioning and sizing graphics was a problem. NAPLPS used a coordinate system where the width and height of the screen ranged from 0 to 1. For instance, to place a pixel in the center, you referenced coordinates (0.5, 0.5). Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation was the french minitel telephone directory. Hope this gives you a place to start. Jack Peacock From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 20 14:43:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Videotext Message-ID: <006f01bd5440$e4ecb480$27f438cb@nostromo> > Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a >non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services >piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan >lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. When I talked to the designer of the Mattel videotext system, I was confused and mentiioned this piggybacking on TV signals in the blank area, and he was kinda amused that I would confuse videotext with TELEtext. Videotext had dedicated phone numbers your system would ring up. Teletext was piggybacked on TV signals. He called videotext a precursor to the internet (and also stated that he doesn't use the 'net because you have to pay for things you want, and it's not got much useful on it anyway - I wonder how long since he's used it?!!) Cheers A From chemif at mbox.queen.it Fri Mar 20 15:17:50 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Videotext Message-ID: <199803202117.WAA28919@mbox.queen.it> At 07:43 21/03/98 +1100, you wrote: >When I talked to the designer of the Mattel videotext system, I was confused >and mentiioned this piggybacking on TV signals in the blank area, and he was >kinda amused that I would confuse videotext with TELEtext. Videotext had >dedicated phone numbers your system would ring up. Teletext was piggybacked >on TV signals. Yes, they are two different services. Here in Italy the Videotext service is called "VIDEOTEL" and works using the Teletel/Prestel standard with speed 75/1200 baud. The Teletext service broadcasted from RAI is called "TELEVIDEO":the signal is inserted in the TV frames and can be seen with a decoder. The informations are divided in pages (capacity abt. 990 per TV channel) regarding many topics: from weather forecasts to news, tv programs schedule, and other info that can be recalled with the remote control. Some broadcasters uses it as an economic "one way" data transmission (Telesoftware). With a special pc-board connected directly with the TV antenna, is possible to download files transmitted as multiple pages (E.G. the price updates for the the pharmacies). Ciao ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 20 16:02:15 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <199803202202.AA19969@world.std.com> Message-ID: If anyone wants to volunteer to store the junk that used to be on the classiccmp web site, I'll forward it on. Part of it is my little trackstar archive which has some info, drivers, pdf file of the TS128 manual, and the little FAQ I wrote for the a2 newsgroups a few years back. -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: zmerch->;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: zmerch-> zmerch->>I have one of these. A Diamond Trackstar 128k, has two 65c02s and 128k of zmerch->>ram. It can use the standard 360k drives and the apple ones as well. zmerch->>What I don't have for it is the software. Looks really neat and useful. zmerch->>I don't know if it would work in anything later than an XTclass machine zmerch->>and without software it's hard to determine that. zmerch-> zmerch->Again, I'm not an Apple Junkie (but for the record I'm thinking of getting zmerch->one of these boards, just for the halibut ;-) but you can buy the TrackStar zmerch->E board (Apple 2E board) for $19 + $6 shipping from these guys: zmerch-> zmerch->http://www.ahhz.com/ zmerch-> zmerch->I am a potential customer of these guys, but nothing more... zmerch-> zmerch->Also, if you'd like to find out more (including software drivers, Allison) zmerch->try here: http://www.ahhz.com/docs/trakstar.htm zmerch-> zmerch->They have a picture, a copy of the TrackStar FAQ, and elsewhere on the site zmerch->they say there is the software available for it.... lemme go look.... zmerch-> zmerch->http://www.ahhz.com/drivers.htm zmerch-> zmerch->but, alas, they only seem to have the drivers for the E board (size: 169K)... zmerch-> zmerch->Hope this helps, zmerch->Roger "Merch" Merchberger zmerch-> zmerch->BTW, as stated on the page (I cannot verify this), it's a dual-processor zmerch->board... a 65C02 and a Z80 to run CP/M as well... zmerch->-- zmerch->Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, zmerch->Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch->zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. zmerch-> From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 20 16:30:10 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Apple - PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've already stuck the FAQ on my page, so feel free to send me a copy. It certainly won't hurt to have more than one mirror if others want to host it as well. -- Doug On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Bill Whitson wrote: > If anyone wants to volunteer to store the junk that used to > be on the classiccmp web site, I'll forward it on. Part of > it is my little trackstar archive which has some info, drivers, > pdf file of the TS128 manual, and the little FAQ I wrote for > the a2 newsgroups a few years back. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu > Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 > University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > > > On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > zmerch->;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: > zmerch-> > zmerch->>I have one of these. A Diamond Trackstar 128k, has two 65c02s and 128k of > zmerch->>ram. It can use the standard 360k drives and the apple ones as well. > zmerch->>What I don't have for it is the software. Looks really neat and useful. > zmerch->>I don't know if it would work in anything later than an XTclass machine > zmerch->>and without software it's hard to determine that. > zmerch-> > zmerch->Again, I'm not an Apple Junkie (but for the record I'm thinking of getting > zmerch->one of these boards, just for the halibut ;-) but you can buy the TrackStar > zmerch->E board (Apple 2E board) for $19 + $6 shipping from these guys: > zmerch-> > zmerch->http://www.ahhz.com/ > zmerch-> > zmerch->I am a potential customer of these guys, but nothing more... > zmerch-> > zmerch->Also, if you'd like to find out more (including software drivers, Allison) > zmerch->try here: http://www.ahhz.com/docs/trakstar.htm > zmerch-> > zmerch->They have a picture, a copy of the TrackStar FAQ, and elsewhere on the site > zmerch->they say there is the software available for it.... lemme go look.... > zmerch-> > zmerch->http://www.ahhz.com/drivers.htm > zmerch-> > zmerch->but, alas, they only seem to have the drivers for the E board (size: 169K)... > zmerch-> > zmerch->Hope this helps, > zmerch->Roger "Merch" Merchberger > zmerch-> > zmerch->BTW, as stated on the page (I cannot verify this), it's a dual-processor > zmerch->board... a 65C02 and a Z80 to run CP/M as well... > zmerch->-- > zmerch->Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > zmerch->Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should > zmerch->zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. > zmerch-> > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Mar 20 19:02:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Time/Date stamper Message-ID: <19980321010210.4833.qmail@hotmail.com> I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How do I get rid of that? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 20 16:44:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980320090614.00be36d0@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 20, 98 09:06:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980320/3c2c91a4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 20 15:29:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability In-Reply-To: from "Simon Coombs" at Mar 20, 98 00:37:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4372 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980320/fd49ad23/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 20 19:45:05 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Time/Date stamper Message-ID: <42763867.35131ba3@aol.com> I remember hearing a trick about soaking a printer ribbon with WD-40 to revive it. YMMV of course. david In a message dated 98-03-20 20:03:00 EST, you write: << I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How do I get rid of that? >> From jredin at earthlink.net Fri Mar 20 19:15:46 1998 From: jredin at earthlink.net (James Redin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Heinz Nixdorf Message-ID: <199803210156.RAA01206@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Dear friends, I'm recollecting information for an article I will write about the transition of electro-mechanical calculators to electronic calculators during the 60's. I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24). I haven't been able to obtain more information on these calculators. I suppose this is because Nixdorf moved soon onto the computers technology (eventually joining with Siemens). As a reference, I posted a copy of the Nixdorf article in my web site at the following address: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber/chistory.htm Information about the Anita can be found at: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber SECTION: VINTAGE CALCULATORS --> ELECTRONIC --> ALBUM --> Anita Any information on this subject will be appreciated. Regards, James Redin ----------------------- [1] Bruce Flamm, "The World's First Electronic Calculator - Who Made It?" The International Calculator Collector - Fall 1996, Issue #14. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 20 20:09:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Northstar S100 compatability Message-ID: <199803210209.AA05637@world.std.com> Well all the last couple weeks have 50/50 as my sources stsrt to have less and less computer items. But I did some of the following Mac IIfx, Mac IIsi, Mac IIci (all for $15 each); all were loaded with software and worked fine no kb's or mice with them just the boxes. A couple of servers one Dell and the Compaq but not 10 years old yet for $10 each with no memory or hard drives. A NeXt black laser printer for $15, NEC MultiSpeed EL with power brick and manuals $20 at Goodwill. COMQuest PC for .80, IIc mono monitor and stand .80, Apple IIc free no power supply with it. Atari newstyle 2600 .80,Mac 512k model M0001E will not power on .80, IBM 6156-003 Portable Disk Drive unit,Pitney Bowes in AT style case with black 3.5 FD $10 not tested yet, and todays finds have not been listed yet in the computer so I can't tell you what all I got but my pickup was full. Yes I got 2 IBM 5494's anyone know something about them ?? Thanks and keep computing John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 20 20:21:09 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Time/Date stamper In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Time/Date stamper" (Mar 20, 17:02) References: <19980321010210.4833.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9803210221.ZM12749@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 20, 17:02, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Time/Date stamper > I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a > box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. > The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when > it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? The stuff that's used to re-ink dot-matrix printer ribbons will probably do. What colour was the original? A lot of these used blue. If you have a good stationary supplier nearby, the stuff to ask for is "endorsing ink" which is what's used to re-ink endorsing-stamp (rubber-stamp) pads. Or use WD-40 to extract whatever life is left in the original, if it's dried up rather than exhausted. But go easy, don't add too much, and let it soak in for a while. > Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How > do I get rid of that? When I ran litho printing presses (in a former life) we used a solvent called MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) to undo "blanket smashes" -- dents in the rubber offset blanket caused by crumpled paper under high pressure. It's also used to give the blanket an occasional extra-good clean. MEK is also used in the plastics industry as a solvent and to glue PVC and ABS. It shouldn't be too hard to find. Caution: it's very inflammable, it dissolves or at least attacks several types of plastic, removes ink as soon as you look at it, and also removes the natural oils from your skin, so don't wash you hands in it :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 20 20:37:51 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: information In-Reply-To: "Andrew Davie" "Re: information" (Mar 21, 7:36) References: <005701bd543f$d9207de0$27f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <9803210237.ZM12753@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> > Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a > non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services > piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan > lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. > > To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation > was the french minitel telephone directory. data piggy-backed on TV signals, using several lines in the blanking interval, is called viewdata. data presented in the same screen format as viewdata, but interactively, over a phone line, is called videotext. Collectively, videotex = videotext + viewdata. The original standards were for 25 lines of 40 columns, in 8 colours. Characters can have attributes like "flashing" or "hidden" (for quizzes), and there are rudimentary graphics using a 2x6 mosaic pattern in each character cell. There are several not-quite-compatible viewdata standards, some of which offer much higher resolution and colour range (the German Bilschirmtext system BTX does this). AFAIK, all the videotext systesm, at least in Europe, are the same, and the BBC and UK independent TV companies all use it for news, programme listings, etc, as do a lot of the european satellite TV channels. UK's PRESTEL, Germany's BTX, France's Minitel, all use slightly different forms. Lots of UK travel agents use a private PRESTEL-compatible system, and at least a couple of banks and building societies here use the same standard for home banking. A few UK bulletin boards used to use the same format, and I think one or two still do, for nostalgic reasons. You can get two or three host systems to run on machines like BBC Micros. There's a web page somewhere devoted to this old stuff, but I can't remember the URL (if anyone really wants it, I'll look). There are BTX and Minitel emulators for X-windows, and I have a PRESTEL terminal emulator package for X-windows (works well but still needs a bit of tidying up) which AFAIK is the only free PRESTEL-compatible one for unix systems. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Mar 20 11:37:28 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Crisis Over, Back To Your Homes, Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <000201bd5471$8aa2bac0$9a60bcc1@hotze> The list is, more or less, on topic, and I've taken this oppertuinity to ask a question: My Apple ][ has a Language card called a "Pocket Rocket". Now, what does this do? Does it let me write in such languages as Pascal, C, or, on my ][+, Integer BASIC? Also, is RAM expansion avaible to increase RAM to 128K (As I've heard that it could go to...) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 20 22:34:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect older PC system but they are interesting. From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Mar 20 22:56:18 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 In-Reply-To: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 20, 98 11:34:23 pm" Message-ID: <199803210456.XAA07487@crobin.home.org> > I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect older > PC system but they are interesting. > > From opening them they are MCA bus with 286, 1mb ram, 20mb? HD and 1.44 > floppy. They are complete with reference disk(utilities?). I didn't get > a keyboard, mouse or monitor with them but they look like typical VGA and > IBM miniplug nominal stuff. They are said to be working and look pretty > clean. KB and monitor are normal, like you thought. > Questions, how fast were the 286s? 10mhz. If they are 50's, they are 1 wait state, 50Z's are 0 wait state. <<>> From afritz at iname.com Fri Mar 20 23:38:56 1998 From: afritz at iname.com (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 In-Reply-To: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > The hard disk is rather strange with what looks like a 50pin edge > connector. Obviously some of the extra connections over normal are > power. is the drive MFM, IDE or what? My first guess would be ESDI. Get the drive model num and look it up on IBM Canada's web site (www.canada.ibm.com) (the Canada site has more legacy info). Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz@iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ---------- From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 21 00:07:07 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 In-Reply-To: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: >>From opening them they are MCA bus with 286, 1mb ram, 20mb? HD and 1.44 >floppy. They are complete with reference disk(utilities?). I didn't get >a keyboard, mouse or monitor with them but they look like typical VGA and >IBM miniplug nominal stuff. They are said to be working and look pretty >clean. Cool... At least you got the reference disk. Keep it around! You will need it if the battery dies or if you change the configuration. You can also download reference disks from one of IBM's FTP sites, I forget which. Go check out comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and it's FAQ. >Questions, how fast were the 286s? Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, maybe another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was. >The hard disk is rather strange with what looks like a 50pin edge >connector. Obviously some of the extra connections over normal are >power. is the drive MFM, IDE or what? Depends. My 50Z has an ESDI drive(and IIRC they shipped with that, too), but any PS/2 drive with that connetor should work. What it is is that IBM added an HD controller to the HD's main board, so that connector is an MCA interface. >What other oddities about these? Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my favorite part of the Model 50. I have three 50Z's, one working and two with no FD/HD/RAM. I'm thinking of using one as a terminal or something, putting in an ethernet card with a boot ROM or something wierd like that. The other I'll probably use as a regular PC if I find some free or cheap PS/2 parts. All three of the 50Z's were free, my 80 was $50, and the 55sx was free. My 30-286 will be gone soon, as I sold it for $10... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 21 00:43:43 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980320090614.00be36d0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980320224343.00f6e100@pop.batnet.com> At 22:44 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >> As a teen, I remember disassembling a Freiden (?) calculator, and >> finding a wire loop memory, several circles about a foot in diameter. > >Probably a solid delay line store. Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic delay line, although I've never been sure why. >> But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > >True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators] >particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), >technically interesting, or whatever. Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 20 20:00:13 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50, NOT oddball PS/2. :)) In-Reply-To: References: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803210653.BAA03497@mail.cgocable.net> Guys, everyone should have this book by Scott Mueller, "Upgrading and Repairing PCs". Tis' have good INFO on most PS/2, PS/1 and some late IBM boxens including the PC, XT and AT in all types, convertible, 5155 portable. > >>From opening them they are MCA bus with 286, 1mb ram, 20mb? HD and 1.44 > >floppy. They are complete with reference disk(utilities?). I didn't get > >a keyboard, mouse or monitor with them but they look like typical VGA and > >IBM miniplug nominal stuff. They are said to be working and look pretty > >clean. > Cool... At least you got the reference disk. Keep it around! You will need > it if the battery dies or if you change the configuration. You can also > download reference disks from one of IBM's FTP sites, I forget which. Go > check out comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and it's FAQ. > > >Questions, how fast were the 286s? > Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, maybe > another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was. Nooooo.. Only 10mhz. 50 is 1 wait state (slow) yuk. 50Z is 0ws (yay and fully maxed out design for performance and MUST use 85ns or faster simm, (I successfully used 70ns standard parity SIMM on it and it's 72pin BTW). Way faster than that old AT box and I think you should consider getting MCA scsi card and move that 486 adapter of yours over to that 50Z. :)) With ram adaper, 16550A adapter, it would be very nice box. You can use standard generic keyboard with ps/2 adapter and ps/2 generic mouse on them. > > >The hard disk is rather strange with what looks like a 50pin edge > >connector. Obviously some of the extra connections over normal are > >power. is the drive MFM, IDE or what? > Depends. My 50Z has an ESDI drive(and IIRC they shipped with that, too), > but any PS/2 drive with that connetor should work. What it is is that IBM > added an HD controller to the HD's main board, so that connector is an MCA > interface. Not in this sense. Correctly stated, in IBM's words: for this 50 series uses either MFM/RLL card that plugs into that MCA bus or the IDE MCA hd and pass thru card called IDE (MCA IDE) on Interposer Card. > > >What other oddities about these? > Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool > underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my > favorite part of the Model 50. I have three 50Z's, one working and two with > no FD/HD/RAM. I'm thinking of using one as a terminal or something, putting > in an ethernet card with a boot ROM or something wierd like that. The other > I'll probably use as a regular PC if I find some free or cheap PS/2 parts. > All three of the 50Z's were free, my 80 was $50, and the 55sx was free. My > 30-286 will be gone soon, as I sold it for $10... :-P I used that model 30-286 in learning basic AutoCad in highschool roughly 89's BTW, got a spare working 1.44 FDD for that 50 series? All I have is this battle damaged naked 50Z board with CPU and rom with stand up floppy adaper. Or better yet, any luck finding a spare PS/2 with 386 or better boxen? Oh, Allison, you might be much in ahead and investigate this www site for motherboard upgrade for that one of your box: http://www.neointeractive.com/ Jason D. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | > -------------------------------------------------------------- email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 01:21:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980320224343.00f6e100@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > >> But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > > >True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators] > >particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > >technically interesting, or whatever. > > Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by > manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were > building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once. I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this area). Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out mere calculators? How about: * must be programmable * must be general purpose * must have alphanumeric input capabilites * must have alphanumeric display capabilites Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 21 01:27:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <199803210727.AA09763@world.std.com> Because they are sufficiently off the path of my interests I may trade both of them off. They look pretty neat but, I have no spares and they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not really into collecting PCs. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 01:35:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Somebody asked me: "I have a TSR Model 1 fully expanded to 84k. The only problem is the monitor cable end is damaged and needs replacement. Is it worth any thing?" I don't do TRS-80's. Can anybody help this guy out with a ballpark estimate? Thanks, Doug From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 21 01:55:53 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980320224343.00f6e100@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980321025553.00a35100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to >restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any >sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this >area). Uh, and what about that "grey area" of programmable calcs? Not only do they have personality... 1) my trusty Casio programmable calc of 12 years ago that started me thru college, may it R.I.P. is wholly program code compatible with my new(er) 9700 (icon-based screen, 32K RAM)... 2) The TI-59 had not only magnetic card storage, but also a ROM-card library, (at least) one of which was a ROM of games... including an interesting football simulation. but in most (if not all) definitions of a computer, they fit. >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: Why? As you seem to be less interested in calcs, it seems many on this list may be as interested, and if they do fit the definition of a computer, why can't they be included? The absolute definition of a computer as I remember it goes thusly: "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without the aid of a human." Which to me would: exclude sliderules (tho the thread on here I found *very* interesting and enjoyed), include mechanical / analog computers, (to me) exclude basic / 4-function calcs (some folks think carrying & single-memory storage encompass logical functions... I disagree) include programmable calcs... (heavens, my Casio calc has more memory than my Tandy 200... Goodness!) Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson, the (still) owner of this list. >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites My New Casio fits all these descriptions (but is not 10 years old), my old Casio fits all and is old too, and (with a slight stretch for input) so does my TI-59. >Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. By your definition, adding a terminal to an altair would not turn it into a computer... for the computer is only performing I/O on an RS-232. The terminal is doing the displaying. To fit your definition, you would need to add a dedicated keyboard & video board to said Altair... So, you've successfully excluded Altairs, but included Casio calculators... Or is this just an HP vendetta???? :-) Just my (awkward) views... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 02:07:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980321025553.00a35100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > The absolute definition of a computer as I remember > it goes thusly: > > "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without > the aid of a human." That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I work the slides on my slide rule? I think it comes down to the fall-back definition: "You know a computer when you see one." As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) -- Doug From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 21 02:28:24 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980321025553.00a35100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980321032824.00a31b70@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> The absolute definition of a computer as I remember >> it goes thusly: >> >> "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without >> the aid of a human." > >That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at >some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I >work the slides on my slide rule? The difference is: there's no enter key on a slide rule. You can enter a program into a computer, and once it begins executing it may not require human interference until it has completed. If said program includes both arithmetic and logical functions between the pressing of the enter key and the output, it would fit the definition of a computer. >As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's >enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, he? For the chicklet keys on my CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) I guess I see a lot more computers than you do! Just my $0.02USD ($0.026CDN), "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 21 02:29:18 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980321025553.00a35100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980321032918.00a3f8b0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> The absolute definition of a computer as I remember >> it goes thusly: >> >> "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without >> the aid of a human." > >That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at >some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I >work the slides on my slide rule? The difference is: there's no enter key on a slide rule. You can enter a program into a computer, and once it begins executing it may not require human interference until it has completed. If said program includes both arithmatic and logical functions between the pressing of the enter key and the output, it would fit the definition of a computer. >As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's >enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, eh? For the chicklet keys on my CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) I guess I see a lot more computers than you do! Just my $0.02USD ($0.026CDN), "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 21 02:28:32 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980320224343.00f6e100@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980321002832.00f44ba0@pop.batnet.com> At 01:21 3/21/98 -0600, Doug wrote: >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: > >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites You can even throw in "must have stored-program memory" and, bingo, an HP9100 is a computer. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 02:47:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980321002832.00f44ba0@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > At 01:21 3/21/98 -0600, Doug wrote: > >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out > >mere calculators? How about: > > > >* must be programmable > >* must be general purpose > >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites > >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites > > You can even throw in "must have stored-program memory" and, bingo, an > HP9100 is a computer. OK, you got me. But the HP9100's alpha keys only went up to the letter 'f' (this must have been for goto labels rather than hex calculation), and it would be a stretch to call this thing general purpose, but any calculator with core memory is OK by me. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 21 02:56:22 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Freedom! Message-ID: Ahhh, finally I had a day that was free enough of other obligations that I could sit down and tinker with some of my old toys. The machines I played with today: Amiga 1000 with SideCar, Tandy 1000EX, Atari 800XL, Kaypro II and 2, TeleVideo TPC-I, 'A.M.A. LCD Portable' (286 luggable with LCD screen). I also had time to inspect a few pieces of junk I don't know anything about, that had been collecting dust on shelves. Anyway, it's great to have time to relax and tinker and post. I'll put specific comments and queries in appropriately titled messages. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jredin at earthlink.net Sat Mar 21 02:17:58 1998 From: jredin at earthlink.net (James Redin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Delay lines Message-ID: <199803210859.AAA05786@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Dear friends, I love computers indeed, but behind calculators are almost 400 years of history, so there is a lot of very interesting material to learn and research. Regards, James Redin http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber The X-Number World of Calculators ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Delay lines > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:21 PM > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > > > >> But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > > > > >True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators] > > >particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > > >technically interesting, or whatever. > > > > Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by > > manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were > > building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once. > > I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can > bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't > really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to > restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any > sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this > area). > > Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out > mere calculators? How about: > > * must be programmable > * must be general purpose > * must have alphanumeric input capabilites > * must have alphanumeric display capabilites > > Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you > add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > > -- Doug > From mor at crl.com Sat Mar 21 03:16:30 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines) References: <3.0.3.32.19980321025553.00a35100@mail.northernway.net> <3.0.3.32.19980321032918.00a3f8b0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3513856E.6595A51E@crl.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, eh? For the chicklet keys on my > CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along > this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex > Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) Hey, my MC-10's all have chicklet keys, not membranes. And a world-class 6803 inside too ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 18:53:20 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Pesky atari modem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199803210919.EAA02786@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Mar 98 at 17:38, CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: > I have a problem with an Atari 1030 modem. While I can receive > everything correct on the Atari modem I am not able to receive anything > transmitted from it to another computer correctly. All I get from the > Atari modem is binary garbage. Can anyone help me? BTW dose anyone have > any spare Atari cables remember they have 13 pins. On another note I've > noticed that flea markets are a pretty good place to find classic > computers. > If you have access to usenet ,any of the Atari hierchies would be a good place to start. comp.os.atari.8bit , comp.sys.atari.st ,etc. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 18:53:24 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:53 2005 Subject: Old manuals free in Canada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199803210919.EAA02800@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Mar 98 at 21:47, Pete Joules wrote: > Found on usenet - I assume that 40 years old makes them on topic ;-) > > (Sorry about the delay, message bounced twice because I couldn't type the > address properly) > > On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:38:39 -0500, in comp.misc "John H. Lindsay" > wrote: > > >I'm in the process of trying to retire, and I have a collection > >of computer manuals that go back to the I.B.M. 650 and 1620 > >in the mid-late 1950's and run to, say, 10 years ago. This > >stuff is History, and it shouldn't be thrown out. It needs a > >good home - a computer archive, library, or museum, > >Canadian preferred, but if one doesn't materialize, I'll consider > >other possibilities. > > > >Ideas, suggestions or recommendations, anyone ? > > > >-- > >John H. Lindsay lindsay-j@rmc.ca > >Department of Mathematics and Computer Science > >ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OF CANADA > >P O BOX 17000 STN FORCES > >KINGSTON ON K7K 7B4 CANADA > > > >Phone: (613) 541-6000--1--6419 > >Fax: (613) 541-6584 > AAArrrrggggghhhh. In Canada unless Charlie Fox has his groups project up and running in Windsor , K. Stumph of Unusual systems in Kitchener-Waterloo was the only museum project existant , however I believe it has recently closed. See http://www.sentex.net/~ccmuseum My feelers on this subject for Toronto have not engendered any response to present. I will be contacting the above and the Ontario Science Centre in the light of keeping things like this in the country. Anyone local on the list interested ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 18:53:25 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Hasbro buys ATARI In-Reply-To: <199803192259.RAA03348@mail.iac.net> Message-ID: <199803210919.EAA02811@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Mar 98 at 17:59, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > This is old news. The ATARI newsgroups have been full of this > for the last couple of weeks, so I'm sure most folks here know about > it. However, Hasbro recently came out with an announcement stating > that they are going to re-release old games such as Centipede just > like they rereleased an updated 'Frogger.' > > A core ATARI constituancy still exists who would like Hasbro > to update the ST hardware line. With clone European makers _still_ > manufacturing ST compatible machines, and Gateway 2000's purchase of > the Amiga line, one might think this could be a profitable move for > Hasbro. Looks like they don't see it that way howver. > > What a shame. Both *BSD and Linux run on this hardware line > and I _really_ want a decent alternative to PC hardware available > which is also designed with <*cough*> games in mind (hey, I may be an > adult but I still like videogames!) Maybe a letter writing campaign > to Hasbro could help change their mind? Anyone else here fond of the > old ATARI computer line and share my enthusiasm? > > J. Maynard Gelinas I'm also an Atari-head and have been following events with interest There has been a suggestion that they might be positioning themself for an entry into the web-top sweeps. At least it's out from under Tramiel control ciao larry. lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 21 03:47:29 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Amiga A1060 SideCar Message-ID: I finally got around to archiving what ROMs I could find in my old SideCar, and I have a few questions. I know the comp.sys.amiga.hardware would probably be a better place to ask, but I'm going to ask here anyway. :) [The SideCar, for those that don't know, is basically an XT clone that attaches to the side of an Amiga 1000, whos display normally appears in a window or on a separate 'screen' on the Amiga display.] I didn't completely disassemble the SideCar, I only took the cover off and poked around a little. I got my SideCar 'third-hand' and never had the manual for it. I never played with the dip switches or jumpers in it. Does anyone know what all the dip switches are for? There's a bank of eight of them, and another of four. Currently the 8 are: OFF, ON, ON, OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, ON. The set of 4 are all OFF. I checked through memory with DEBUG and located the BIOS code as well as the stuff the Amiga sends to the PC side via the dual-port RAM. I don't know how big the BIOS is supposed to be. It looks like it's in two chunks, of about 4K and 8K. The first section of this code lies at F4000 and goes to about F4Cxx, followed by a bunch of FF's, then at F6000 is a solid 8K chunk of code, including copyright messages from Commodore Electronics Ltd. and Phoenix Software Associates Ltd. Would all of this be in a 16K chunk in the EPROM at location U22 on the motherboard? It's a 48-pin EPROM with a sticker on it that reads "380619-02" and "Hydra BIOS 2.05". Under the daughterboard and the hard drive (I replaced the floppy drive with an ST-296N in 1991 or so) where I couldn't really see very well, were at least two other 48-pin chips, at U39 and U40. The only number I could see was "8621" on the one at position U40. I know that's not a lot of information, but does anyone know what those are? I'm just interested in how the SideCar performs its magic. I looked into the RAM area from E0000-F3FFF which is the shared RAM, and I was surprised to see some stuff in there from the Amiga side that I don't think should have been there. After the PC.boot file stuff that was loaded into the PC side by the Amiga at startup, there was the "info" program from the Amiga shell. Executing something else on the Amiga side cleared that area out, and executing "info" again (from ARP 1.3, not the real AmigaDOS) put the info code back in there. Also, some filenames from directories on the Amiga side showed up in there. What's going on? The SideCar controls the hard drive for the Amiga. Does the Amiga get the data from the HD through this memory area? I've never been able to get AREAD/AWRITE to function. They always GURU. I got the files from a BridgeBoard distribution... do I need special ones for the SideCar? Now, the main reason I actually opened the SideCar up: I installed a Seagate SL-02 SCSI controller when I installed the hard drive. It conflicted with the floppy controller in the SideCar, and in order to have floppies and hard drive running at the same time, I had to disable the floppy controller on the SCSI card. I did this by putting masking tape over each pin on the card in turn, booting up the Amiga and the PC side, and recording the results. I eventually decided, from these results, to tape over 7 of the pins on the SCSI controller card, and this has worked perfectly since. I don't know how the pins are numbered, but below is an ASCII graphic representation. :) The 5th, 6th, 10th, 18th, 19th, 22nd, and 26th pins are taped over, on the left hand side of the card, reading from front to back. xx x xx x x | ===============================| |o I hadn't recorded this anywhere, and I was a bit worried that the tape would be drying out and falling off and making my SideCar go crazy, but everything was OK. And now it's recorded somewhere. :) Oh, one other thing. The first part of the boot message is as follows: Commodore Hydra BIOS Rev. 2.05 - Test Release - Copyright (C) 1985 by Commodore Electronics Ltd. Copyright (C) 1984,1985 by Phoenix Software Associates Ltd. All Rights Reserved. The serial number is under 1000. I'm wondering how common the A1060 SideCar is, and if anyone has one that doesn't boot up with the "Test Release" message. The motherboard says: FAB 380517-01 Rev.4 ASSY NO. 380604-01 Rev.7 ?1986 COMMODORE SIDECAR MAINBOARD Are there earlier or later revisions out there? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 21 03:58:40 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer Message-ID: I picked up an "HP 82143A Peripheral Printer" a little while ago. It physically resembles the "HP 82162A Printer/Plotter" that is pictured, attached to an HP-75, in a little book entitled "Computer in Your Pocket" which reviews several early pocket and notebook computers. Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? Pinout of the 12-pin connector? The printer still has a small roll of paper in it (about 2.25" wide) and I wouldn't mind finding out if the thing still works. I got it at a Salvation Army store, and there was no sign of whatever it had been attached to. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Sat Mar 21 04:07:23 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance Message-ID: <01IUWXSXRA088Y4XYC@AC.GRIN.EDU> > > But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > True... I'm not thinking of spamming this list with pocket calculator > questions or anything like that. I'd just not object to the odd thread on > them, particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > technically interesting, or whatever. Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone want it? Is it at all interesting? (Sorry, Allison. I thought my last message was going to the list, and not to you privately.) -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 04:08:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > I picked up an "HP 82143A Peripheral Printer" a little while ago. It > physically resembles the "HP 82162A Printer/Plotter" that is pictured, > attached to an HP-75, in a little book entitled "Computer in Your Pocket" > which reviews several early pocket and notebook computers. > > Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with > anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? > Pinout of the 12-pin connector? I've got one someplace that I haven't used for years. I used it either with the HP-75D I used to have, or the HP-41C I still have. The connector is HP-IL, I think. You should be able to use it with just about any HP that can talk HP-IL, and you can even find HP-IB (GPIB) to HP-IL converters that might let you talk to it from machines with GPIB interfaces. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 04:14:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <01IUWXSXRA088Y4XYC@AC.GRIN.EDU> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Benjamin M Coakley wrote: > Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone > want it? Is it at all interesting? It's only the best calculator ever made. Grab it quick, you won't regret it. It's programmable, can be expanded with RAM and ROM cartridges, and there's a whole bunch of cool little peripherals you can hook up to it. And I think it even does arithmetic. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 21 04:37:15 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-146A vs. 81-232 Message-ID: I finally opened up my Kaypros today to see if I could get the '2' working. The II and the 2 seem to be almost identical inside, with two notable differences: One of the ROMs has a different number on it, and my Kaypro II has some wires soldered between pins on one of its chips. The Kaypro II has a chip with a sticker marked "81-146A", with the "A" stamped on in read ink. The Kaypro 2 has a chip with "81-232" on it, in the same location. What are the differences? The chips at position U87 on both motherboards are marked DM74LS390N, but the one in the Kaypro II has been messed with. It's a 16-pin chip, and pin 1 has been bent upward and a wire soldered onto it, which leads to pin 6. Pin 9 is missing. Pins 12 and 15 are attached with a wire. Is this normal for a Kaypro II, or has someone made a modification? Anyway, I managed to make a copy of the WordStar disk that came in the drive of the II today, using my Amiga 1000, A1060 SideCar, A1020 5.25" floppy drive, and TeleDisk. So now I have a disk that boots reliably instead of 1 out of every 5-10 times. That meant that I now know there's something wrong with the Kaypro 2, because it won't boot at all with the new disk. Before, it may have just been a borderline disk that was causing the problem. So (tell me if this was a bad/dangerous thing to do) I opened both machines up and attached them to each others' disk drives. They were plugged into a power bar, so I powered them up simultaneously with that. The Kaypro 2 boot up with no problems, using the II's drives, and the II was incapable of booting using the 2's drives, so I've got the problem located to drive A of the Kaypro 2 now. And BTW, both the II and the 2 have full-height drives. Both keyboards have missing keys (including broken plungers). Will this be easy to fix? I'm thinking of fixing the 2, and using the II for parts, simply because I like the colour of the 2's green phosphor monitor better (and some other minor things). :) Is one model more rare than the other? IOW, does one warrant saving more than the other? If not, I'll go with my feeling and fix the 2 with parts from the II. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sat Mar 21 04:50:42 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Bill a TRS-80 fan? (Was More List Operation Stuff) Message-ID: <199803211050.KAA00758@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-19 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :Question: :Is Bill using a TRS-80 here? I think I see 64 cols per line :formatting, hmmmmmmmmmm........... or alternatively, he could have a block editor running under forth and be posting from there... ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 21 05:02:05 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Mystery Board Message-ID: I picked up a board at a Hamfest last summer, and I still don't know what the heck it is. It may not even be computer related - might come from a photocopier or something. :) The board measures about 7.75" in length, and a little over 3" high. Its slot connector has 72 pins, measuring a bit more than 3.5" in length. It LOOKS like it could be RAM, but it's not like anything I've seen elsewhere. There are 16 long "plates" of what seems to be some kind of ceramic material, each with four chips embedded in them, two to each side. The "plates" measure over 2" in length, are notched at one end, and are marked "125B", "886-2". The chips that are embedded in the plates are marked "-607-2", with varying numbers beneath (e.g. "01386 34", "04836 77"). They appear to have 30 pins each, with 10 pins on each 'long' side and 5 pins at each end. All pins come out the bottom of the chips rather than the sides as on DIPs. There are some other chips on the board, three of which (20-pin) are labeled: AM2966PC WP90101L1 8546DMP There are seven 16-pin chips labeled: WE 63S 1 11085 74 And another 16-pin chip labeled: WE 63S 1 12685 77 There is a yellow bar-code sticker on one end of the board which reads "860C03900901". There's a stamp in the middle reading "ATP221". On the back side of the board is "844292540 AM 2 CM192B". I've probably gone overboard with the discription, but I don't know what info is relevant to identifying this thing. The guy I bought it from clearly didn't know what he was selling (but I asked anyway). I bought it with a bunch of old PC cards filled with old RAM chips I may need someday. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 23:57:27 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: New Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980320203248.006d0f0c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <199803211104.GAA06636@smtp.interlog.com> On 20 Mar 98 at 20:32, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well all the last couple weeks have 50/50 as my sources stsrt to have less > and less computer items. But I did some of the following Mac IIfx, Mac > IIsi, Mac IIci (all for $15 each); all were loaded with software and worked > fine no kb's or mice with them just the boxes. A couple of servers one Dell > and the Compaq but not 10 years old yet for $10 each with no memory or hard > drives. A NeXt black laser printer for $15, NEC MultiSpeed EL with power > brick and manuals $20 at Goodwill. COMQuest PC for .80, IIc mono monitor > and stand .80, Apple IIc free no power supply with it. Atari newstyle 2600 > .80,Mac 512k model M0001E will not power on .80, IBM 6156-003 Portable Disk > Drive unit,Pitney Bowes in AT style case with black 3.5 FD $10 not tested > yet, and todays finds have not been listed yet in the computer so I can't > tell you what all I got but my pickup was full. Yes I got 2 IBM 5494's > anyone know something about them ?? Thanks and keep computing John > > No wonder your sources are drying up . You've bloody well bought up all the old computers in the area. ; ^ )) By the way , I've yet to see your URL . could you post it ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 23:57:30 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50, NOT oddball PS/2. :)) In-Reply-To: <199803210727.AA09808@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803211105.GAA06642@smtp.interlog.com> On 21 Mar 98 at 2:27, Allison J Parent wrote: > > <5155 portable. > > I have that book and it's leaving me guessing on some of this. > There were different editions of that Que book. The PS/2-heavy one is the 5th edition. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 23:57:28 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: information In-Reply-To: <002e01bd542d$3dbd7590$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <199803211104.GAA06639@smtp.interlog.com> On 20 Mar 98 at 10:23, Jack Peacock wrote: > Turlough O'Brien wrote: > "videotext" but there is little to no information available on the net about "Videotext" or in the libraries.I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me some informatin on the subject. > > > (This is from memory and unreliable) There was a proposed standard for North America called NAPLPS, for videotext presentation. I believe it was sponsored by Philips. If someone has a complete > > Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit > > To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation was the french minitel telephone directory. > > Hope this gives you a place to start. > Jack Peacock > Again, the mixed bloody format that screws up my mailer or wants me to spend time invoking my browser with it's slow-loading add-ons and bookmarks ! I would have ordinarily skipped this or deleted it without reading but I didn't notice the indicator and blundered into it. In any case , the Byte issue on Videotex is July 83 Vol. 8 #7 grrrr larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Mar 19 23:57:26 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 In-Reply-To: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803211105.GAA06646@smtp.interlog.com> On 20 Mar 98 at 23:34, Allison J Parent wrote: > I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect older > PC system but they are interesting. > > >From opening them they are MCA bus with 286, 1mb ram, 20mb? HD and 1.44 > floppy. They are complete with reference disk(utilities?). I didn't get > a keyboard, mouse or monitor with them but they look like typical VGA and > IBM miniplug nominal stuff. They are said to be working and look pretty > clean. > > Questions, how fast were the 286s? > > The hard disk is rather strange with what looks like a 50pin edge > connector. Obviously some of the extra connections over normal are > power. is the drive MFM, IDE or what? > > What other oddities about these? > > > Allison > > From Peter Wendt the PS/2 guru : [" These "Integrated Harddisks" you most likely meant were used in Mod. 50, 55, 70 and P70. These are ESDI-drives with a combined electronic board underneath, which is in fact a full MCA-adapter. The device has a Card-ID DF9F. In IBM-technoslovakian this thing is called "DBA Harddrive", where DBA stands for "Direct Bus Attachment". Size are 30,40,60,80,120 and 160MB. A 200MB was available from Conner for some time but not as original part or OEM from IBM. Very friendly greetings from Peter in Germany http://members.aol.com/phwimage1/mcaindex.htm "Master Of Desaster" - PS/2 expert since 1987 (Sigh !) " ] You could also check out the PS/2 FAQ at ComputerCraft. I don't have their URL handy . If you have any problem finding it , I'll dig it up. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 21 05:45:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: please ID this card! Message-ID: <000201bd54be$e6ef3e00$4af438cb@nostromo> Pictures are worth 1000 words - my earlier text post didn't elicit any responses... maybe one of you can ID this board (or more particularly, the type of system) from the pictures. Two pics available; large and small. The connector shows the single "pin" on this side, and multiple separate pins on the reverse. http://www.comcen.com.au/~weird/boardbig.jpg [250K] http://www.comcen.com.au/~weird/boardsmall.jpg [95K] Betcha can't! A From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Mar 21 05:48:03 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: please ID this card! [correct URL this time] Message-ID: <000d01bd54bf$35bb5c80$4af438cb@nostromo> Pictures are worth 1000 words - my earlier text post didn't elicit any responses... maybe one of you can ID this board (or more particularly, the type of system) from the pictures. Two pics available; large and small. The connector shows the single "pin" on this side, and multiple separate pins on the reverse. http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardbig.jpg [250K] http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardsmall.jpg [95K] Betcha can't! A Apologies for the earlier post with the incorrect URL - don't you wish, sometimes, that you could send a chase-up email to kill your earlier one?!! From lisard at zetnet.co.uk Sat Mar 21 05:53:13 1998 From: lisard at zetnet.co.uk (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <199803211153.LAA05928@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> On 1998-03-20 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk :I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect :older PC system but they are interesting. hmm. that resolves one question - if you've asked this, allison, then we must be safe to ask something along the same lines... a few weeks ago now, we picked up an ncr 286 machine with colour monitor and wonderful keyboard. model number is not obvious, but the case is flat, about 2" high (the height of a half-height disk drive) and about the size of a small paving slab; internally, the machine is very odd, with a backplane architecture, two daughterboards mounted on two boards in that backplane, and *no* expansion capacity (no free slots). sayeth the computer that it is a "class 3278 model 0129" machine. our question: it says on boot-up that it is "running at low speed", which is 6MHz - how do we get it to run a high speed? there is a switch on the lower main board that does apparently nothing, and a jumper next to it. we can't get further into the machine as we don't have the screwdriver... (it looks like a philips' head, but the slots are too small. what do we need?) or is it software switched? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 21 06:01:56 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <5f850e01.3513ac36@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-20 23:14:29 EST, you write: << The list is, more or less, on topic, and I've taken this oppertuinity to ask a question: My Apple ][ has a Language card called a "Pocket Rocket". Now, what does this do? Does it let me write in such languages as Pascal, C, or, on my ][+, Integer BASIC? Also, is RAM expansion avaible to increase RAM to 128K (As I've heard that it could go to...) Thanks, >> pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card. it's very small, and doesnt require a cable to the motherboard like earlier models did. david From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 21 08:11:27 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Mystery Board In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 21, 98 06:02:05 am Message-ID: <9803211411.AA04944@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/2d2ac055/attachment.ksh From CharlesII at nwonline.net Sat Mar 21 07:35:02 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Just wondering Message-ID: I remember reading a Byte article that told how to build a computer that used a variant of the Z80 by Hatichi (I think that's how you spell it). The computer was about the size of a lunch box. Apparently I have misplaced that particular issue an was wondering if any one had it and was willing to tell me where I could find the printed circuit board and the boot disks or at least send me the art work and the parts list for this particular beast. From jharper at bs2000.com Sat Mar 21 08:07:29 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <5f850e01.3513ac36@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980321070729.00b32ddc@teal.csn.net> Hello all... A friend recently gave me, I think, a PDP-11/70 that was field hardened by Schlumberger for use in a seismographic application. The thing was repackaged, apparently by Schlumberger or a contractor, into an incredibly heavy welded steel box with mil-spec/DIN circular (i.e., non-standard DEC I think) connectors etc etc. It weighs at least 150lbs. If there is anyone out there that could use the internal boards -- no idea what's there -- I would be willing to tear the beast apart and send them for postage. I don't know if PDP boards are hard to find. My understanding is that the unit was pulled from service only a year or two ago and had run in a truck in the field for about ten years -- it has been stored inside my friend's house ever since. It apparently was replaced with a more modern machine -- not because it failed. So, I assume that the beast contains a working processor board, memory, I/O controllers(?), etc. I know very little about the PDP series and so cannot clearly answer specific questions until I open it up. Regards Jack Harper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 21 09:36:41 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980321070729.00b32ddc@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <13341465111.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [11/70] Will you pay shipping or me? A PDP-11/70 is VERY rare! Also, the frontpanel HAS to go with the boards, it has a microprocessor on it. The Backpanels are also very important, they are specially wirewrapped. If you want it yourself, I can tell you what you can remove so you can junk the heavy parts and have a running machine... The 11/70 was the fastest PDP with a frontpanel. They're nice & hard to find. Have you already junked the rack? You can ditch that, just make what wires went where! ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Mar 21 09:40:45 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <13341465111.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13341465849.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Oops, that wasn't suposed to go to the list... Ignore that... ------- From marvin at rain.org Sat Mar 21 10:20:02 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 References: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3513E8B1.4A337942@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > Questions, how fast were the 286s? As I recall, they were 8 MHz machines. > The hard disk is rather strange with what looks like a 50pin edge > connector. Obviously some of the extra connections over normal are > power. is the drive MFM, IDE or what? The IBM HDs I have like you describe are ESDI drives. While I don't have the numbers available, the ones I have are 60 MB. > What other oddities about these? You probably already know the machines are worthless if the setup gets changed/corrupted and the reference disk is not available to correct the situation. From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Mar 21 10:32:08 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <002701bd54e6$eac915a0$8b63bcc1@hotze> OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to boost it to the max 128KB? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze >pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card. >it's very small, and doesnt require a cable to the motherboard like earlier >models did. > >david From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 21 10:41:46 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 In-Reply-To: <3513E8B1.4A337942@rain.org> References: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980321104146.007f5420@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:20 AM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote: >Allison J Parent wrote: > [snip] >You probably already know the machines are worthless if the setup gets >changed/corrupted and the reference disk is not available to correct the >situation. The Family One, PS/1, PS/2, etc. Ref disks are available at: ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pcbbs/ Grab ALLFILES.TXT for a (poorly organized) listing. You need LOADDSKF.EXE (dual bound exe for DOS and OS/2) to create some of the images, others are done with Sydex utils and are self-extracting images. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 21 10:58:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 References: <199803210434.AA23438@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3513F1BE.F9521FDA@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect older > PC system but they are interesting. Older? Most were made around 1990-94 and I sell tons of them to this day. Most is proprietary though. A good source of info, specs and links for the PS/2's is http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ I have tons of parts for various models from the 25 to 95 and portables in case you ever need any. The 50's and above are the microchannel machines with those below 50 being ISA. The monitor is VGA, the keyboard and mouse are stock PS/2 type. When I buy machines in quantity they never come with the monitor, KB or mouse. The hard drives vary. While it is a proprietary connector, there are ESDI, SCSI and IDE type drives with that flat (no separate) power connector card edge and ribbon. Look at http://www.surplusdirect.com/ this week, they had charcoal colored new PS/2 style keyboards for $3.00 each and charcoal mice for $3.88 each. No minimum either, buy once you reach a certain point they drop the UPS ground to a flat $7.00 for the total shipment. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 21 10:54:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Delay lines Message-ID: <199803211654.AA06593@world.std.com> <>* must be programmable This would exclude many millions of MCUs based on chips like 8048, 8051, z80, I960, 80186/8, and several dozen more in embedded applications like engine control, navigation, aircraft flyby wire systems or even some calcs. This would include PDP-8s, pdp-11s and whatever else burried in CNCs, MRIs and transportation control systems. <>* must be general purpose In the above cases the computer or microcomputer is running a dedicated application from ROM or loaded from other media on power up. So they are not general purpose in that case. Would this eliminate the PDP-8s used by BART as computers? <>* must have alphanumeric input capabilites See above cases again consider the possible range of inputs. The input could be barcode reader, thermal or position sensors or off a network from other computers. <>* must have alphanumeric display capabilites Consider the above and the possible outputs. The result may be generating engine spark timing, alarm output, opening a cuircit breaker, notifying another computer. Calculators as differentiated from mechanical adders, differentiated from fixed program computers. The difference can be the application more so than implementation. I tend to look to see if there is control or branching on condition to see if we are talking calc, programmable calc or more general computer. BUT by doing that do we have to look at the user interface level or the internal implmentation level? Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 21 11:08:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 References: <199803210727.AA09763@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3513F42A.8B8635B1@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > No the drive only has one board. That plugs into the board in the mca > bus. looks like the drive has minimal electronics on it and the board in > the mca is the edsi or mfm controller. Every machine has certain "FRU" (field replacement units) that it can accept besides certain aftermarket items. Some interchange, some don't. IBM has an online maintenance manual, and it's listed in the links page at http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ (The PS/2 Page). The 50 and 50Z are totally different machines, not to be confused with each other. I have a model 80 for a server here with clone PC's running on 10baseT cards here under Win95 and Novell Netware (on one of the machines). I used to have a 386 running Win For WorkGroups in the network too. > > One has a ni card, single BNC so I suspect eithernet. There are a few types of network cards. One looks like a CGA card having a 9 pin sub-d but the telltale "16/4" on a green dot gives away the token ring function. The Ethernet BNC cards are not as common but available and the 10base2 cards with the wide telephone looking connector types are even scarcer but available. I'd have to look but I probably have some 30, 60 or 80mb drives for the machine you have. Sound cards are a real bugger to find reasonably. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 21 11:08:58 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980321070729.00b32ddc@teal.csn.net> from "Jack Harper" at Mar 21, 98 07:07:29 am Message-ID: <9803211708.AA04809@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 978 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/6d2c0492/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 21 11:17:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 References: Message-ID: <3513F63B.918BA64B@bbtel.com> John Rollins wrote: > >>From opening them they are MCA bus with 286, 1mb ram, 20mb? HD and 1.44 > >floppy. They are complete with reference disk(utilities?). I didn't get > >a keyboard, mouse or monitor with them but they look like typical VGA and > >IBM miniplug nominal stuff. They are said to be working and look pretty > >clean. > Cool... At least you got the reference disk. Keep it around! You will need > it if the battery dies or if you change the configuration. You can also > download reference disks from one of IBM's FTP sites, I forget which. Go > check out comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and it's FAQ. Reference disks (setup disk images) are available at Windrivers.Com as well (http://www.windrivers.com/) and at the PS/2 Page at http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ and a few merchants that sell new and used PS/2 and PS/1 items. The IBM site for these is at ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 21 11:29:39 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <19980321172940.9410.qmail@hotmail.com> Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply room. >they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not >really into collecting PCs. > >Allison > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 21 11:45:14 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Personal Communications/3270 Message-ID: <19980321174515.7622.qmail@hotmail.com> Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this. I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270 terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30. Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 21 11:49:59 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Personal Communications/3270 In-Reply-To: <19980321174515.7622.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 21, 98 09:45:14 am Message-ID: <199803211749.MAA27861@shell.monmouth.com> > > Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this. > I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they > might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270 > terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there > was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30. > Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this? It's 3270 emulation all right. I picked up the OS/2 verson at Trenton's Flea Market a while back along with the OS/2 Web Server. I've got Dos 3.30 (the last small dos)... I've been doing my 3270 over TCP/IP recently so I don't think it's too useful anymore. It might be useful to someone working in an IBM shop. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Mar 21 11:57:18 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: please ID this card! [correct URL this time] In-Reply-To: <000d01bd54bf$35bb5c80$4af438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: >Betcha can't! You're probably right... Going from the name on the edge, perhaps it's part of a TVI filter(too many chips¬ enough other stuff for that), part of an ATV(Amateur TV) system, part of a repeater controller... Try asking on rec.radio.amateur.equipment and sci.electronics.equipment and similair newsgroups. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Mar 21 12:06:22 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <199803211806.AA01821@world.std.com> Hmmm, The Goodwill pickings were bad. I only found one C128 and two 1571 drives, plus a 1084 composite monitor. The store manager wanted $25 for _each_ item ($100 total?? BAH!). The C128 had several broken keys, the Disk drives looked in pretty bad shape, so the only thing of interest was the monitor. I took it. I also got some cables: a TTL RGB cablefor the 128, A standard "monitor" cable and what looks to be a drive cable (hey, they were willing to bundle it in for me). So, the question is: can I use the 'split' composite cable for a C64 with an Atari 800? By 'split' I refer to split chroma and intensity signals... I know that the 1084 monitor can handle this, and I know that the Atari outputs this format just like a C=64, but I _don't_ know if the pinouts are the same between the two. Can anyone help? Thanks! J. Maynard Gelinas From jredin at earthlink.net Sat Mar 21 12:09:08 1998 From: jredin at earthlink.net (James Redin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Heinz Nixdorf Message-ID: <199803211850.KAA03609@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Hello Frank, > maybe the definitions of computer/calculator are not exact; the Mk8 is > stated as "first electronic desktop calculator" in > "Bueromaschinen-Kompass", an annual handbook giving an overview on the > market. > I guess, what quilifies the Anita is the fact that it used Nixie-tubes for > displaying the results. A book, written 1960, titled "Electronic > number-calculators" describes the display of results as the largest > problem, the author had no idea of a practical solution (but describes > every other technology used these days: core-Memory, delay-lines, tubes, > even diodes and transistors). > Regards, > Frank Boehm Yesterday I subscribed to a new list (Discussion re-collecting of classic computers) hoping to get more info on the Nixdorf machines. The first messages that came across were an ongoing discussion on the boundaries between calculators and computers. It was very interesting for me. One of the entries stated: "Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson, the (still) owner of this list. >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilities >* must have alphanumeric display capabilities." Of course many current calculators would be considered computers under these terms, however, we need to consider the context or frame of reference for this definition. The list is oriented to "Classic computers" and therefore the boundaries are relevant to the early computer/calculator technology. On the other hand, the fact that the ANITA would qualify for the first electronic calculator because it was the first one with Nixie-tubes display is not very clear either. Remember that the first pocket calculator, the "Cal-Tech" from TI and its off-spring the Canon "Pocketronic" used a thermal printer to display the results. I would say that the terms above stated leads to a clear cut between Computers/Calculators. Now the real question should be: Does anybody know if the ES 12 and ES 24 electronic calculators developed by Nixdorf in 1953, were programmable and/or had alphanumeric input/display capabilities? Regards, James Redin http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Mar 21 13:59:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Harvard Graphics 2.01 Message-ID: <19980321195940.13028.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry to go on and on about PC stuff, but I do need help. I got a copy of Harvard Graphics 2.01 for DOS. I'm not sure if it was my fault or not, but I damaged Program Disk 1. Scandisk reports that cluster 0 is damaged and the disk cannot be fixed. I can view the directory of the disk (5.25"), but the files are inaccessible. Could someone either tell me how to fix this disk or send me another one? (diskimages would do_) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From sethm at loomcom.com Sat Mar 21 14:56:20 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: [Regional - Bay Area] Computer History Talk Message-ID: <199803212056.MAA22330@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/864148d2/attachment.ksh From jharper at bs2000.com Sat Mar 21 12:36:49 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <9803211708.AA04809@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.1.32.19980321070729.00b32ddc@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980321113649.007883e8@teal.csn.net> At 09:08 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote: >> A friend recently gave me, I think, a PDP-11/70 that was field hardened by >> Schlumberger for use in a seismographic application. The thing was >> repackaged, apparently by Schlumberger or a contractor, into an incredibly >> heavy welded steel box with mil-spec/DIN circular (i.e., non-standard DEC I >> think) connectors etc etc. It weighs at least 150lbs. > >Are you sure this is a 11/70? A complete 11/70 system weighs more like >800 pounds - before mil-spec hardening. The CPU backplane and power >supplies are about 300 pounds, the memory box another 200 or so, and >then you need at least a Unibus box or two. And that's all before starting >to add Massbus disk drives, which are 400 or so pounds each. > >> with a more modern machine -- not because it failed. So, I assume that the >> beast contains a working processor board, memory, I/O controllers(?), etc. > >A 11/70 processor is 13 boards, in a custom backplane. I think >what you have is a 11/73. > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > > Believe it or not, I am not sure -- I am at work at the moment but will check when I get home tonight. This thing is in a big grey steel box with no switches, logos etc... Regards Jack Harper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From disio at milenium.com Thu Mar 19 03:14:46 1998 From: disio at milenium.com (Dionisio Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: a manual for the northstar advantage Message-ID: <3510E206.4697@milenium.com> i would know if you have a hardware manual, or where i can find one. if don't, do you know which is the meaning of: load system 00000010 hardware failure I think it's a bios failure, if so where i can find one. thanks in advance. Disio@milenium.com From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 15:31:53 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Fairchild FST-2? In-Reply-To: <199803212056.MAA22330@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: After hearing about some of the cool things you folks find at thrift stores, I decided to hit a couple today. I was pretty disappointed in the slim pickings, but I found a couple of interesting but useless items: 1) A fairly recent work (Aug 1997) showing the layout of all of Apple's buildings, including employee names, extensions, and the offices they occupy. For sale to the highest bidding head-hunter! 2) Manuals for a Fairchild FST-2 CPU, Series 20 maintenance manual, MASTR O/S reference, Enhanced Precision Measurement Unit hardware description, and some other info. I've never heard of this computer before (circa 1981, as far as I can tell). Any help putting this into a historical context appreciated. I also saw, but haven't yet purchased an intriguing box. The computer was in a sturdily constucted case with wood panels. There was no easy way to open the case (without a screwdriver), but from the bottom I could see what looked to be the main board labeled "Vector Electronic 8803" or something similar. Help? -- Doug From jredin at earthlink.net Sat Mar 21 15:19:15 1998 From: jredin at earthlink.net (James Redin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Delay lines Message-ID: <199803212200.OAA05078@denmark.it.earthlink.net> I'm new to the list and missed the original posting about the Friden delay line. Can somebody forward to me the messages that have been crossed in regards to the Friden calculator or tell me where can I search for old postings? Thanks! James Redin ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Delay lines > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:27 PM > > > > acoustic delay lines, they propagate bits translated to mechanical > impulses at the speed of sound in a solid. The resulting delay is > long enough to use ans a shift register to store bits. > > Allison > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Mar 21 16:39:14 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980321113649.007883e8@teal.csn.net> from "Jack Harper" at Mar 21, 98 11:36:49 am Message-ID: <9803212239.AA05332@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 319 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/5c589712/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 21 17:27:37 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Fairchild FST-2? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > 1) A fairly recent work (Aug 1997) showing the layout of all of Apple's > buildings, including employee names, extensions, and the offices they > occupy. For sale to the highest bidding head-hunter! Just in case anybody didn't get the joke, I was kidding about this thing being for sale. I've already been in contact with a buddy at Apple so I can get this back to them for proper disposal. In the meantime (and before this hits the newsstands), I can tell you that the CEO's office really does look vacant, and Steve Jobs hangs out next door to it. They also have some pretty cool names for their conference rooms. There's a disney theme to some, homages to Star Trek and The Flying Nun, the Holy Hand Grenade Lab, etc. I'm trying to memorize all of this information before the Apple Stormtroopers get here! -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 21 10:35:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 21, 98 01:21:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2083 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/edf227d3/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 18:45:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321184533.41e74d9c@intellistar.net> Doug, Your printer is made to work with the HP 41 calculator. The "plug" will only fit the HP 41. It uses a HP 82033 battery pack. That's the same battery that's used in the 82162 printer, HP 97 calculator and many other HP products. That battery has 4 sub-C NiCad cells in it. The HP 82059 charger (USA version) is used to recharge the battery, it produces 8 VAC. The cahrger alone is NOT powerfull enough to operate the printer. There is no way to self test the printer, other than checking to see if it feeds paper. This printer was largely replaced by the HP 82163 printer. The 163 printer uses the HP-IL interface and can be used with the HP-41, HP-71, HP-75, HP-110 and other HP calculators and computers. Some of them like the HP 75 and 110 come with the HP-IL interface built-in. The others require an optional interface. E-mail if you have any other questions. Joe At 04:58 AM 3/21/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I picked up an "HP 82143A Peripheral Printer" a little while ago. It >physically resembles the "HP 82162A Printer/Plotter" that is pictured, >attached to an HP-75, in a little book entitled "Computer in Your Pocket" >which reviews several early pocket and notebook computers. > >Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with >anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? >Pinout of the 12-pin connector? > >The printer still has a small roll of paper in it (about 2.25" wide) and I >wouldn't mind finding out if the thing still works. > >I got it at a Salvation Army store, and there was no sign of whatever it >had been attached to. > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 21 10:42:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 21, 98 04:58:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980321/5c4c9cb5/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 18:54:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321185417.41e76654@intellistar.net> Doug, PS I have the pin out of the 12 pins in the connector but they're part of the HP-41 bus and wouldn't make any sense to you with a complete description of the HP 41 architecture. For example, the 41 uses a 56 bit serial data and address bus combined on a single line. The contents of the other lines varies according to differernt sync signals and timing. Joe At 04:58 AM 3/21/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I picked up an "HP 82143A Peripheral Printer" a little while ago. It >physically resembles the "HP 82162A Printer/Plotter" that is pictured, >attached to an HP-75, in a little book entitled "Computer in Your Pocket" >which reviews several early pocket and notebook computers. > >Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with >anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? >Pinout of the 12-pin connector? > >The printer still has a small roll of paper in it (about 2.25" wide) and I >wouldn't mind finding out if the thing still works. > >I got it at a Salvation Army store, and there was no sign of whatever it >had been attached to. > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 19:08:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Calculators was Re: Delay lines In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980320224343.00f6e100@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321190818.41e7c49a@intellistar.net> At 01:21 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to >restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any >sort of personality Have you ever tried a HP 41? How does up to 961 external devices of nearly every descrptions grab you? That's just one of the capabilities of the HP-41 using the HP-IL interface. I currently have a 41 running a HP logic analyzer! (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this >area). They did a good job too :-) > >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: > >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites The HP-41, 71, 75 and all the newer ones fit this description. > >Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > >-- Doug Joe From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 21 18:18:30 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-146A vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > I finally opened up my Kaypros today to see if I could get the '2' > working. The II and the 2 seem to be almost identical inside, with two > notable differences: One of the ROMs has a different number on it, and > my Kaypro II has some wires soldered between pins on one of its chips. > > The Kaypro II has a chip with a sticker marked "81-146A", with the "A" > stamped on in read ink. The Kaypro 2 has a chip with "81-232" on it, in > the same location. If the layout of the two boards seem identical, the chip in the II marked "81-146A", which is the character generator ROM, is in the wrong location (U47). It should be in U43. The one in U47 should be either "81-149" or "81-232". They may have gotten swapped. > What are the differences? > > The chips at position U87 on both motherboards are marked DM74LS390N, but > the one in the Kaypro II has been messed with. It's a 16-pin chip, and > pin 1 has been bent upward and a wire soldered onto it, which leads to pin > 6. Pin 9 is missing. Pins 12 and 15 are attached with a wire. > > Is this normal for a Kaypro II, or has someone made a modification? It is a modification. > Anyway, I managed to make a copy of the WordStar disk that came in the > drive of the II today, using my Amiga 1000, A1060 SideCar, A1020 5.25" > floppy drive, and TeleDisk. So now I have a disk that boots reliably > instead of 1 out of every 5-10 times. That meant that I now know there's > something wrong with the Kaypro 2, because it won't boot at all with the > new disk. Before, it may have just been a borderline disk that was > causing the problem. Not necessarily. Unless both machines used the 81-232 boot ROM, there is every chance that they both will not boot from the same bootable disk. The boot ROM determines the revision of the operating system required. > So (tell me if this was a bad/dangerous thing to do) I opened both > machines up and attached them to each others' disk drives. They were > plugged into a power bar, so I powered them up simultaneously with that. > > The Kaypro 2 boot up with no problems, using the II's drives, and the II > was incapable of booting using the 2's drives, so I've got the problem > located to drive A of the Kaypro 2 now. Maybe not. See above. > And BTW, both the II and the 2 have full-height drives. > > Both keyboards have missing keys (including broken plungers). Will this > be easy to fix? The usual failure mode is for the cruciform projection on the switch plunger to get broken off. You will need to unsolder the switch and replace it with a good one. With the benefit of a solder sucker, it is not necessary to remove the circuit board from the keyboard metal work. > I'm thinking of fixing the 2, and using the II for parts, simply because I > like the colour of the 2's green phosphor monitor better (and some other > minor things). :) Is one model more rare than the other? IOW, does one > warrant saving more than the other? If not, I'll go with my feeling and > fix the 2 with parts from the II. The 2 is probably less common. > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From mor at crl.com Sat Mar 21 18:58:24 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wow, am I gonna be busy! Message-ID: <35146230.1E86A356@crl.com> Gone are three 486 clones that have been languishing in my garage for nearly a year. They were traded for: an Apple Lisa 2, an Osborne Executive, and a Northstar Horizon. The Lisa and Osborne have boot disks and other software, and so far seem to work well. I also got a Profile hard drive with the Lisa, but I haven't tried to hook it up yet... I haven't messed with the Horizon at all, but it looks to be in good shape, with CPU, ram, disk and i/o cards installed, along with a couple of diskettes in the drives that might boot it, not sure yet. I'll holler for help if this gives me trouble whenever I get to it, though I do have huge collection of manuals for it that I had picked up in anticipation of this day ;) Additionally, the guy I got all this stuff from tossed in about a dozen cartridges for the TI-99 and Coco3 that I didn't already have. Happy happy joy joy. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 20:40:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Irreverence to irrelevance In-Reply-To: References: <01IUWXSXRA088Y4XYC@AC.GRIN.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321204044.45afed58@intellistar.net> At 04:14 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Benjamin M Coakley wrote: > >> Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone >> want it? Is it at all interesting? > >It's only the best calculator ever made. Grab it quick, you won't regret >it. It's programmable, can be expanded with RAM and ROM cartridges, and >there's a whole bunch of cool little peripherals you can hook up to it. >And I think it even does arithmetic. Only Reverse Polish Arithmetic! :-) Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 21 19:45:25 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <4d947aa3.35146d37@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-21 11:33:13 EST, you write: << OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to boost it to the max 128KB? Thanks again, >> there were certain 128k ram cards for the ][+ and similar but i dont think programs could use the extra memory. early versions of appleworks could be patched to use it and dos 3.3 could use the mem as a virtual disk. the pocket rocket's memory cannot be upgraded. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 21 19:49:35 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: In a message dated 98-03-21 12:30:13 EST, you write: << Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply room. >> ps2 models arent really that hard to upgrade. the difficulty only comes when someone attempts to upgrade it way beyond its capabilites. certain 95xx models have used dx4/100 cpu also. eduquest systems are/were one piece mac-like systems designed for school use. proprietary design, but so easy to work on. some even had dos in rom. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 21 19:52:17 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Personal Communications/3270 Message-ID: <821008fe.35146ed3@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-21 12:45:44 EST, you write: << Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this. I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270 terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30. Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this? >> i might have something similar. i was given 5 shrinkwrap copies of ibm pc 3270 emulation program version 1.22 i opened one to see what it's like and the rest are upopened. not much use though. i wouldnt mind a never opened package of dos3.3 to add to my collection of never-used ibm software. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 21 19:53:53 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: oddball find PS/2-50 Message-ID: <483ba9a7.35146f34@aol.com> all 80286 ps2 models ran at 10mhz. wait states differed. david In a message dated 98-03-21 13:42:20 EST, you write: << > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Mar 21 20:45:31 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Heinz Nixdorf In-Reply-To: "James Redin"'s message of Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:15:46 -0800 References: <199803210156.RAA01206@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199803220245.SAA13300@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "James Redin" wrote: > I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is > usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently > I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History > of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of > electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24). At the risk of suggesting the obvious, have you contacted the Heinz Nixdorf Museumforum? They have a web site at http://www.hnf.de/ and one of the pages contains a list of contact addresses. However, you will either need to read German or have good luck with the translator at http://www.altavista.digital.com/ (which is of limited use on HNF's site because some of the text is embedded in images). -Frank McConnell From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Mar 21 21:22:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: HP cards-anyone? Message-ID: <35148400.5F5921E@bbtel.com> Ok, here's a group of cards made by Hewlett Packard that appear to be of a mini computer style.... The first three have the white extractor tabs on two corners (much like an HP 1000's cards do) and are 7.5" by 17" and have female header connectors on the bottom 17" edge. Here's each card: 1) p/n 07980-66503 and has three bios looking socketed chips in the upper left corner. These are numbered 88780-12122, -12222, -12322 and there's a crystal for 20mhz on board. My guess is it's a processor board? 2) p/n 07980-66534 and has a quick lock type ribbon cable socket on the top/left, two bios looking chips numbered 88780-12423 and-12523. this has a flat coin type battery next to the ribbon connector, a Motorola MC68000 and 12 mhz crystal below that. Isn't the 68000 part of the Mac computers? I have no guess on this one other than maybe an processor or emulator card. 3) p/n 07980-66531 and has two ribbon quick locks. One is the same as the last card but behind a steel shield plate. The other is similar to the one used on older floppy controllers. This one also only has two bottom connectors rather than three like the other two. The fourth appears to be an SCSI card. It's irregular in shape and has two 50 pin Centronics females as well as two 50 pin quick lock ribbon connectors, one next to the Cent's and one on the opposite side. There's a bios type chip with a label reading 88780-12618/U51 SCSI 6.62 and a strange type brown two pin poweer connector. It appears to be mounted by screws, not cage/slide mounted. It measures 11" x 6.25" and has a cutout of roughly 3.5 x 4.5 inches near the two prong brown power type connector. Ok...you people know more about the big hardware than me. It's been 5 years since I've even seen an HP 1000 mini (from when I used an ESTS station in the AF to test missiles) and it's all a blur. Anyone know what these are, what they're from, and a possible new home for them? I hate to throw away the heavy hardware since I know it's costly and in some cases scarce. If someone wants to make me an offer for the four I'm sure I'd take it. Remember, these look like they're good and are untested. Let's face it though, anytime you can get something HP without paying HP's price you're doing good. I'd especially take anything PC parts wise in trade for these if someone has something good they can spare. Make me an offer and we'll go from there. They WILL go to the dump at the end of March though. They weigh probably 5-6 lbs for all four, very light. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Mar 21 21:42:58 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Bulk erased SyQuest carts WAS: Re: DING DING! Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980321181522.0a7f7b62@ricochet.net> At 10:04 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >The SyJet is very nice, but runs VERY Hot. Mine is warm, but definitely not what I'd call hot. >guess would be the Publishing industry still uses them quite a bit since >it's usually in Mac catalogs and stores I see the carts for sale. Of About 10 years ago, I too invested heavily in 44mb Syquest carts. The reason I did, is because one of my clients at the time (a major graphics arts firm (logos for the Olympics, Microslut, etc.)) was buying them the way most high-tech companies buy diskettes: buy a couple of cases of them and put them on the shelf for employees to come and grab a handful. And they *used* them. All day long, and often all night too. The syquests were also very popular with the Atari ST crowd too. Somewhere around here (in *that* pile, I think) is an Atari branded cartridge. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 23:39:24 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321233924.5087dc96@intellistar.net> At 04:35 PM 3/21/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >> bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >> really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to > >If you'd been at last year's HPCC conference you'd not say that (or that >they can't do many tricks). We had an improved symbolic algebra library >written by hackers (not by HP), a calculator monitoring and controlling >the real world, people programming calculators in machine code, etc. Tony is being modest! He brought and demo'd an interface of his own design that connected to an HP-48 and controlled a robot arm using an I2C serial interface. He had it moving disks from one peg to another two in the classic Towers of Hanoi problem. > >There were more hacks there than at the average PC user group IMHO >(although that says more for the average PC user :-(). A LOT more than in the present WinDoze PC users! > >Other hacks have included the HP42SV (an HP42S with 32K RAM, rather than >the standard 8K), etc. > >> restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any > >I'll agree that restoring them is often hard (since they use 100% custom I wouldn't say that. I've reverse engineered many of the HP calcs and can/have successfully repaired 90+ % of them. And not just a few times, I've repaired hundreds of them. Fortunately the custom parts are usually the most reliable. >chips, and spares are not available). On the other hand, there were >desktop machines using mostly standard components... > >> Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >> mere calculators? How about: >> >> * must be programmable >> * must be general purpose >> * must have alphanumeric input capabilites >> * must have alphanumeric display capabilites >> >> Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >> add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > >It would allow in many of the HP models including (I think) the HP9100, >since you could link up standard alphanumeric printers and card readers > >And what's wrong with the HP65? It was the first handheld programmable, >after all. > >A possible calculator hack. HP sold a version of the HP97 printing >calculator called the HP97S. It had an external interface box which >allowed it to read a BCD number from an external device, and also brought >out the 4 user flags as TTL outputs. Now, the HP67 has a very similar >internal design, and the interface box is all 4000-CMOS and a couple of >tiny ROMs as state machines. How about making an HP67S... Good idea Tony! The 67 and 97 are almost identical designs. In the 97S, they intercept some of the bus signals and send them to the external interface as outputs and route input signals from the interface back to the processor in place of the keyboard inputs. Building a 67S would be very easy to do. I may try it if I ever get time. Joe > >> >> -- Doug >> >> > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 21 23:44:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wow, am I gonna be busy! In-Reply-To: <35146230.1E86A356@crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980321234454.48cf9b3e@intellistar.net> At 04:58 PM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote: >Gone are three 486 clones that have been languishing in my garage for >nearly a year. They were traded for: an Apple Lisa 2, an Osborne >Executive, and a Northstar Horizon. There seem to be a LOT of N* Horizons out there, this in the third one that's turned up in the last week! Does anyone have any idea how many of these were built? And how many Altairs? Just as a comparision. Joe From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Mar 22 00:06:01 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: TI terminal info needed Message-ID: Need any info I can get on the TI Silent 700 Model 787 data terminal. I have one(in storage right now), and am talking to someone by email who has a 745 and 780. So if you have any info on any of those terminals, let me know. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Sun Mar 22 01:26:48 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Fairchild FST-2? Message-ID: <01IUY6I6F4TU8Y52A7@AC.GRIN.EDU> > After hearing about some of the cool things you folks find at thrift > stores, I decided to hit a couple today. I was pretty disappointed in the > slim pickings, but I found a couple of interesting but useless items: If you're referring in part to the HP-41 I mentioned last night, I went back today and it was gone. Sob. If any of you are in Oregon, though, it's probably worth your while to go to the Goodwill on Coburg Rd in Eugene. Frequently. Today, they had a Heathkit H19, a Kaypro 4, an AT&T 6300 PC, a couple of Laser 128s, a couple of CoCo 2s, stacks of C= stuff, a Sperry luggable XT, something that said Vector Graphics on it, and lots more. All priced at under $10, and today was 40% off day. That list only contains stuff that was still there when I left - I'm driving across the country tomorrow morning, so I'm under some space constraints. Normally, I'd offer to pick things up for people and ship them off, but like I said, I'm driving back to Iowa tomorrow. Eugene/Portland people on the list? -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Mar 22 02:56:02 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: [Fwd: FS: C3210] Message-ID: <3514D222.2FE5@digiweb.com> FOund on usenet, reply directly to poster.... -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type message/news From mor at crl.com Sun Mar 22 02:43:31 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: [Fwd: FS: C3210] References: <3514D222.2FE5@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <3514CF33.28C4F773@crl.com> > Convex C3210 > > 256 MB memory > > 18 gig HD (12x 1gig; 2x 3 gig) > > 2x fujitsu 3840 tapes drives w/ 10 tape autoloader > > 1 reel-to-reel 2920 tapesystem > > Complete, working. Located in CA. Reasonable offer. Hmm. Let me guess. This won't fit in the back of a station wagon, right? -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From aaron at wfi-inc.com Sun Mar 22 04:54:21 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: [Fwd: FS: C3210] In-Reply-To: <3514CF33.28C4F773@crl.com> Message-ID: Probably not, but it might fit ok in the carcass of my gutted VW bus, huh? I just moved to a new house with a nice, warm, insulated garage.... I think my new neighbours would probably be a little worried if I showed up with this one day. Anyone have an idea of what something like this would be worth today? I have found a few references on the net, but nothing that would suggest a going market price. Aaron On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > > Convex C3210 > > > > 256 MB memory > > > > 18 gig HD (12x 1gig; 2x 3 gig) > > > > 2x fujitsu 3840 tapes drives w/ 10 tape autoloader > > > > 1 reel-to-reel 2920 tapesystem > > > > Complete, working. Located in CA. Reasonable offer. > > Hmm. Let me guess. This won't fit in the back of a station wagon, > right? > > -- > mor@crl.com > http://www.crl.com/~mor/ > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 04:18:06 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with > > anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? > > Pinout of the 12-pin connector? > > I've got one someplace that I haven't used for years. I used it either > with the HP-75D I used to have, or the HP-41C I still have. The connector > is HP-IL, I think. You should be able to use it with just about any HP > that can talk HP-IL, and you can even find HP-IB (GPIB) to HP-IL > converters that might let you talk to it from machines with GPIB > interfaces. Thanks for the info! I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting an HP machine in real life, but when I do I'll look for the appropriate connector. :) BTW, would you happen to know if the batteries for this beastie are still available? It looks like it takes a big boxy battery (about 3.5"x2"x1"?) with both contacts on one face. And the power connector on the back is fairly unusual, too. There's a piece of metal on the left hand side, at the back, that swivels out of the body of the printer. It that for attaching the printer to the machine that's using it? What's the three-position "mode" switch for? It has labels "MAN", "TRACE", and "NORM". Thanks again! Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 04:25:51 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Mystery Board In-Reply-To: <9803211411.AA04944@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > I picked up a board at a Hamfest last summer, and I still don't know what > > the heck it is. It may not even be computer related - might come from a > > photocopier or something. :) > It sounds like a board from a telephone switch. (Especially the "125B" > label and the Western Electric chips.). I'd guess from 1985, based on > what I assume are the date codes. Interesting. I wonder how it ended up in a box of ISA cards (and one S-100 bussboard)? :) Please forgive my ignorance (and the potential off-topic repurcussions), but could this board's function be what it appears to be? (i.e. RAM) And if so, what use is that in a telephone switch? And could the switch be used to do any computing? ;) > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 04:35:59 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980321184533.41e74d9c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > Doug, > > Your printer is made to work with the HP 41 calculator. The "plug" will > only fit the HP 41. Oh. How lame. :/ Unless the HP 41 is cool in its own rite. :) > It uses a HP 82033 battery pack. That's the same > battery that's used in the 82162 printer, HP 97 calculator and many other > HP products. That battery has 4 sub-C NiCad cells in it. OK thanks. And thanks for the other info that I snipped. It looks like this printer will sit on the shelf for a while and collect dust. But it's darn cute! :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 22 04:46:28 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Mystery Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > It sounds like a board from a telephone switch. (Especially the "125B" > > label and the Western Electric chips.). I'd guess from 1985, based on > > what I assume are the date codes. > > Interesting. I wonder how it ended up in a box of ISA cards (and one > S-100 bussboard)? :) > > Please forgive my ignorance (and the potential off-topic repurcussions), > but could this board's function be what it appears to be? (i.e. RAM) And > if so, what use is that in a telephone switch? And could the switch be > used to do any computing? ;) Phone systems are, in effect, special purpose computers. They have a processor, programming, and RAM to store the database during run-time. The database will have the details of the phone system, such as the extension number of each phone, the class-of-service for each phone, etc. The phone systems I'm most familiar with (Siemens Saturn) have anywhere from half a meg to 1meg of memory to store the database. A lot of times, the database is loaded off of floppies (Saturns use 8" and 5.25" floppies, others use 3.5" drives and even hard disks). I have an AT&T Horizon phone system (circa late 70s) which is significant in the history of telephone systems as it was the first "key" system. It uses an Intel 8008 processor. The switch I've been working with for a while now (Cortelco Millenium) is based on an Intel 80286 and uses static RAM to store its programming. Some interface cards, such as the T1/E1 interface, have their own 8088 processors to off-load the protocol processing from the main system processor. So its in effect sort of a parallel processing computer. You can ask me more specific questions in e-mail if you'd like more information. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 05:08:01 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Note: I've changed the subject line to the appropriate chip labels. My error when posting originally. On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > The Kaypro II has a chip with a sticker marked "81-146A", with the "A" > > stamped on in read ink. The Kaypro 2 has a chip with "81-232" on it, in > > the same location. > > If the layout of the two boards seem identical, the chip in the II marked > "81-146A", which is the character generator ROM, is in the wrong location > (U47). It should be in U43. The one in U47 should be either "81-149" or > "81-232". They may have gotten swapped. Sorry about that, the chip in location U47 was "81-149C", not what I wrote above. I guess I made the error because of the orientation of the machines - they were connected to each others' drives and thus reversed front-to-back, and I ran out to the other room to read the labels while in the middle of the post. I must've read the chip location off one board, then scanned directly across to the chip on the other board, without taking into account the reversed orientation. :( > > The chips at position U87 on both motherboards are marked DM74LS390N, but > > the one in the Kaypro II has been messed with. It's a 16-pin chip, and > > pin 1 has been bent upward and a wire soldered onto it, which leads to pin > > 6. Pin 9 is missing. Pins 12 and 15 are attached with a wire. > > > > Is this normal for a Kaypro II, or has someone made a modification? > > It is a modification. Do you (or anyone else) know if it's a known modification? What I mean is, does anyone know why this chip might be wired up this way? Does it solve some known problem with the Kaypro II, or make an enhancement? > > Anyway, I managed to make a copy of the WordStar disk that came in the > > drive of the II today, using my Amiga 1000, A1060 SideCar, A1020 5.25" > > floppy drive, and TeleDisk. So now I have a disk that boots reliably > > instead of 1 out of every 5-10 times. That meant that I now know there's > > something wrong with the Kaypro 2, because it won't boot at all with the > > new disk. Before, it may have just been a borderline disk that was > > causing the problem. > > Not necessarily. Unless both machines used the 81-232 boot ROM, there is > every chance that they both will not boot from the same bootable disk. > The boot ROM determines the revision of the operating system required. Humm... so I've been working from bad assumptions all along. They don't use the same boot ROM. However, as I mentioned, the Kaypro 2 did boot from this disk when attached to the II's drives instead of its own. Is it possible the drives themselves have different specs that might interfere as well? > > So (tell me if this was a bad/dangerous thing to do) I opened both > > machines up and attached them to each others' disk drives. They were > > plugged into a power bar, so I powered them up simultaneously with that. > > > > The Kaypro 2 boot up with no problems, using the II's drives, and the II > > was incapable of booting using the 2's drives, so I've got the problem > > located to drive A of the Kaypro 2 now. > > Maybe not. See above. > > And BTW, both the II and the 2 have full-height drives. > > > > Both keyboards have missing keys (including broken plungers). Will this > > be easy to fix? > > The usual failure mode is for the cruciform projection on the switch > plunger to get broken off. Yup. I do have a couple of missing keycaps with good plungers, but generally I'm looking at what you describe. I really wish people would treat old hardware better in the Salvation Army stores. That's where I got both of these machines (at different times), and from previous observations, that's where I'd guess the damage occurred. > You will need to unsolder the switch and > replace it with a good one. With the benefit of a solder sucker, it is > not necessary to remove the circuit board from the keyboard metal work. OK. I've had the keyboards open and it doesn't look like an easy job, though. :/ Looks like time to review Tony's (un)soldering techniques. :) > > I'm thinking of fixing the 2, and using the II for parts, simply because I > > like the colour of the 2's green phosphor monitor better (and some other > > minor things). :) Is one model more rare than the other? IOW, does one > > warrant saving more than the other? If not, I'll go with my feeling and > > fix the 2 with parts from the II. > > The 2 is probably less common. OK. Considering the differing boot ROMs, though, it's possible that the only repairs that will need doing will be to the keyboards. I'd rather save BOTH machines than cannibalize one of them. I'm hoping the plungers are still made and easily available. Or salvagable off of something of lesser value, like old PC keyboards. Thanks for the info, Don! Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 06:16:54 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I've repeated what I did the other night. I plugged the Kaypro II into the Kaypro 2's drives, and vice versa. Just the ribbon cable, not the power. Whichever machine was plugged into the Kaypro II's drives was able to boot, the machine plugged into the 2's drives just sits there with the bootup message and eventually beeps and says "I cannot read your disk" (or similar). I tried swapping the II's 81-149C with the 2's 81-232. Neither will work with the other's ROM. The machines light both drive lights and fill their screens with garbage characters (many of which are flashing). I even tried swapping BOTH the boot ROMs and the character generator ROMs together, in case they depend on one another, but got the same symptoms. So the ROMs aren't even compatible between machines. I looked at the other chips in the vicinity of the ROMs, and all part numbers matched. And there are no obvious differences between the motherboards except for that wired-up chip I mentioned in the II. Very odd. Obviously I didn't follow all of the traces on the motherboards to see if they matched. :) Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 06:32:04 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Z-80 Video Pak Message-ID: I think I've asked this before, but it might be a different crowd out there now. Does anyone know the specs of the power supply needed to power the Z-80 Video Pak from Data 20 Corporation? This is a cartridge for the Commodore 64 that is supposed to allow the 64 to run CP/M, and gives it an 80-column text mode. Does anyone have a manual for this cartridge? The only info I have on it are from the text on the box, and from inspecting the cart itself. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 22 06:38:22 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <00db01bd558f$6f44b520$4487440c@kroma-i> >>pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card. >OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in >particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to >boost it to the max 128KB? They were called "Language Cards" because you could switch between Applesoft and Integer Basic. It never had anything to do with any other programming language. If you want to program in C, try Hyper C from ground at ftp://liquefy.isca.uiowa.edu/8/ground/apple2/apple8/Languages/Hyperc -- Kirk From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 22 06:46:33 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: MacSnap SCSI, MacSnap memory Message-ID: I've got a Mac 512K that came with two MacSnap devices installed in it. The MacSnap SCSI adapter plugs into the Mac's ROM sockets, and provides a 25-pin SCSI connector out the back of the Mac. The Mac seems to pay no attention to my Zip drive when it is attached to this connector, though, so I guess that it needs some kind of driver? Does anyone have this software? Also, the machine came with 512K on a MacSnap memory board. It looks like there's enough space for 1.5MB on the board. I had to remove the board to get the Mac to boot, however. Even the "Sad Mac" image was garbled with this thing in place. I think it is because two of the connectors are cracked. The MacSnap memory board actually snaps onto the top of existing chips on the motherboard, because there is no "normal" means of expanding the Mac 512K. Does anyone know if the 16-pin "snaps" are standard parts (i.e. AVAILABLE)? These are parts that fit over 16-pin DIPs, with metal contacts that push against the legs of the chips. What would be the proper name for these parts? There are four 20-pin "snaps" and two 16-pin "snaps" on the underside of the memory board, but it is only the 16-pin parts that are cracked. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Mar 22 07:05:57 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <000c01bd5593$ce0aa700$0667bcc1@hotze> OK. What exactly does a language card do? (Sorry, I'm new at this).. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, March 22, 1998 4:47 AM Subject: Re: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info >In a message dated 98-03-21 11:33:13 EST, you write: > ><< OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in > particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to > boost it to the max 128KB? > Thanks again, >> > >there were certain 128k ram cards for the ][+ and similar but i dont think >programs could use the extra memory. early versions of appleworks could be >patched to use it and dos 3.3 could use the mem as a virtual disk. the pocket >rocket's memory cannot be upgraded. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 22 04:27:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Delay lines In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980321233924.5087dc96@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 21, 98 11:39:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4131 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980322/ca403811/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Mar 22 10:22:30 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Mystery Board In-Reply-To: References: <9803211411.AA04944@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980322082230.00bd0a20@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:25 AM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > >> It sounds like a board from a telephone switch. (Especially the "125B" >> label and the Western Electric chips.). I'd guess from 1985, based on >> what I assume are the date codes. > >Interesting. I wonder how it ended up in a box of ISA cards (and one >S-100 bussboard)? :) > >Please forgive my ignorance (and the potential off-topic repurcussions), >but could this board's function be what it appears to be? (i.e. RAM) And >if so, what use is that in a telephone switch? And could the switch be >used to do any computing? ;) Well... when you consider that for a number of years now that AT&T phone switches have been UNIX based systems... The connections are not that far fetched. Even most of the small office switches are microprocessor controlled (an AT&T 'Merlin' switch system that I am currently installing is 68000 based if I recall correctly). -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Mar 21 05:48:27 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 Blues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199803221649.LAA25593@smtp.interlog.com> On 21 Mar 98 at 16:18, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > > > I finally opened up my Kaypros today to see if I could get the '2' > > working. The II and the 2 seem to be almost identical inside, with two > > notable differences: One of the ROMs has a different number on it, and > > my Kaypro II has some wires soldered between pins on one of its chips. > > I've finally figured out I have some sort of symbiotic relationship with the Kaypro 2 I've had in my collectionfor several years. The routine goes like this: Periodically Ill pull out the "2", plug it in, admire the case and how the kb fits, fire it up , watch as it acknowledges the B drive then the A. and finally displays the Kaypro logo on the neat little screen. Then I run through the disks I got with it starting with the "bootable Wordstar". The disk spins anndd spins and the logo sits primly staring back at me. Finally I remove the 10 screws holding the cover on and check the connections and tap the chips to make sure they're seated. Shake my head , "got to be a bad drive or controler , or maybe it needs a system disk from TCJ" Then I put it back together , put it back onthe shelf . "Well I'll get to it later" and work arduously getting my latest acquisition up and working. 3 months later I go thru the same routine. 8 ^ } It's symbiotic , man. Wierd people some collectors. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From dwalterm at ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 22 11:38:39 1998 From: dwalterm at ix.netcom.com (Don Walterman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: HP cards-anyone? In-Reply-To: <35148400.5F5921E@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980322123839.007a3780@popd.ix.netcom.com> These are the leftovers from an HP mag tape upgrade. The 7980 is a very popular mag tape unit that is OEM'd to a number of other computer companies. The 88780 is the OEM model number for this drive. There are a couple kits to convert from SCSI to HPIB interfaces. It sounds like you have the remains of the upgrades. There also was an upgrade to convert from the 4 board set to the 3 board set... Don At 09:22 PM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >Ok, here's a group of cards made by Hewlett Packard that appear to be of >a mini computer style.... > >The first three have the white extractor tabs on two corners (much like >an HP 1000's cards do) and are 7.5" by 17" and have female header >connectors on the bottom 17" edge. Here's each card: > >1) p/n 07980-66503 and has three bios looking socketed chips in the >upper left corner. These are numbered 88780-12122, -12222, -12322 and >there's a crystal for 20mhz on board. My guess is it's a processor >board? > >2) p/n 07980-66534 and has a quick lock type ribbon cable socket on the >top/left, two bios looking chips numbered 88780-12423 and-12523. this >has a flat coin type battery next to the ribbon connector, a Motorola >MC68000 and 12 mhz crystal below that. Isn't the 68000 part of the Mac >computers? I have no guess on this one other than maybe an processor or >emulator card. > >3) p/n 07980-66531 and has two ribbon quick locks. One is the same as >the last card but behind a steel shield plate. The other is similar to >the one used on older floppy controllers. This one also only has two >bottom connectors rather than three like the other two. > >The fourth appears to be an SCSI card. It's irregular in shape and has >two 50 pin Centronics females as well as two 50 pin quick lock ribbon >connectors, one next to the Cent's and one on the opposite side. There's >a bios type chip with a label reading 88780-12618/U51 SCSI 6.62 and a >strange type brown two pin poweer connector. It appears to be mounted by >screws, not cage/slide mounted. It measures 11" x 6.25" and has a cutout >of roughly 3.5 x 4.5 inches near the two prong brown power type >connector. > > >Ok...you people know more about the big hardware than me. It's been 5 >years since I've even seen an HP 1000 mini (from when I used an ESTS >station in the AF to test missiles) and it's all a blur. Anyone know >what these are, what they're from, and a possible new home for them? I >hate to throw away the heavy hardware since I know it's costly and in >some cases scarce. If someone wants to make me an offer for the four I'm >sure I'd take it. Remember, these look like they're good and are >untested. Let's face it though, anytime you can get something HP without >paying HP's price you're doing good. I'd especially take anything PC >parts wise in trade for these if someone has something good they can >spare. > >Make me an offer and we'll go from there. They WILL go to the dump at >the end of March though. They weigh probably 5-6 lbs for all four, very >light. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 22 11:44:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: HP cards-anyone? References: <3.0.5.32.19980322123839.007a3780@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <35154E10.14F6F671@bbtel.com> Don Walterman wrote: > These are the leftovers from an HP mag tape upgrade. The 7980 is a very > popular mag tape unit that is OEM'd to a number of other computer companies. > The 88780 is the OEM model number for this drive. There are a couple kits > to convert from SCSI to HPIB interfaces. It sounds like you have the > remains of > the upgrades. There also was an upgrade to convert from the 4 board set to the > 3 board set... Appreciate the info. Seems a few other people have told me the same thing as well so it appears that's what I have. I have a couple of people lined up for them so we'll see what comes from them. This must have been a pretty good sized mag tape unit. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 22 12:55:08 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info Message-ID: <5b92b2fb.35155e8e@aol.com> In a message dated 98-03-22 08:10:20 EST, you write: << OK. What exactly does a language card do? (Sorry, I'm new at this).. >> the language card also gives a 48k apple ][+ 64k of memory which is required to run versions of prodos < v2.0 david From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 22 13:29:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Epson "Homewriter" cart needed Message-ID: <3515669F.5E2E9FA5@bbtel.com> Need a cartridge based interface for an Epson "Homewriter 10" for Commodore - or any other machine they made a cartridge for the printer for. I have the manual for the Commie cart but no cartridge so the printer is kaput. It's essentially an LX-86 with a modification to make it accept cartridges for an interface in place of the serial or parallel inputs. The Centronics connector isn't even there although the board could accept it but one of the main chips is removed to accept a plug in connector for the "CATI" board. If anyone has this or even a good logic board for an LX-86 (maybe you have a printer with a dead printhead?) let me know and we'll work something out. I hate to have the thing lying around if it's not useable. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From CharlesII at nwonline.net Sun Mar 22 14:10:38 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Drive crash Message-ID: My Atari 1050 disk drive crashed. When I try to boot a disk from it I get beep boot error beep beep boot error etc. I think I remember somthing about the beeps being a message when a boot error happens if so could somone tell me what it means and how to fix it since I don't see anything physicaly worng with the drive on the inside. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 22 15:12:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <19980322211212.1201.qmail@hotmail.com> I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage everyone who hasn't seen it already to see it. I ask this question when seeing any technology-based movie; how much of the technology is actually possible? Who was Professor Falken in the movie based upon? Can a JOSHUA be built? Lastly, was there any meaning to the launch code CPE1704? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 22 15:12:30 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info In-Reply-To: <00db01bd558f$6f44b520$4487440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, kroma wrote: > >>pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language > card. > > >OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in > >particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to > >boost it to the max 128KB? > > They were called "Language Cards" because you could switch between Applesoft > and Integer Basic. It never had anything to do with any other programming > language. If you want to program in C, try Hyper C from ground at > ftp://liquefy.isca.uiowa.edu/8/ground/apple2/apple8/Languages/Hyperc A language card was also required to run UCSD Pascal (which required 64K). Another C compiler you may want to drive yourself insane with is Aztec C. Quite possibly the worst C implementation ever, it took me almost 2 minutes to compile a "Hello World" program. I quickly went back to BASIC and machine language. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From peacock at simconv.com Sun Mar 22 15:25:21 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Just wondering Message-ID: <00f901bd55d9$056ebed0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >I remember reading a Byte article that told how to build a computer that >used a variant of the Z80 by Hatichi (I think that's how you spell it). >The computer was about the size of a lunch box. Apparently I have misplaced >that particular issue an was wondering if any one had it and was willing to >tell me where I could find the printed circuit board and the boot disks or at >least send me the art work and the parts list for this particular beast. The part is a Hitachi 64180, an improved Z80. Zilog also makes a similar part, the Z180. I recall the article, It was from Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar series. I think his company sold the kits, MicroMint (?). The 64180 was a nice improvement, made it much easier to add DRAM to a Z80. The drawbacks were the odd pin spacing on the DIP (70 mil centers instead of 100) and a less than perfect fit to the newer Zilog peripherals like the SCC or CIO. I believe the Zilog version fixed up the signal problems with cascading interrupts and also added one more address line (to a full 1MB). Aside from the faster clock rates and built-in peripherals, the nicest feature of the '180s was the memory management. The CPU had an integrated memory management unit to extend the 64K address of a regular Z80 out to either 512K or 1M, using three bank-switched regions. I still have a homemade CP/M system using the 64180, 256K DRAM, 16KB EPROM, two CIOs, one SCC, a National 58167 clock calendar, and a WD MFM hard/floppy controller card. It runs CP/M V3 and used the MMU to access all of the 256K RAM. I built it before Ciarcia came out with his board, chances are I would have used his for the project instead of doing a custom card. I keep it running for sentimental value, it was the first card I ever designed (and got working) with dynamic RAMs. Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Sun Mar 22 15:36:44 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <010601bd55da$9c1475e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage everyone who >hasn't seen it already to see it. > >I ask this question when seeing any technology-based movie; >how much of the technology is actually possible? Who was Professor >Falken in the movie based upon? Can a JOSHUA be built? > Look for another movie sometime, "Dr. Strangelove". The crazed nuclear scientist character in most all movies is based on Dr. Edward Teller, father of the US H-bomb (Sakharov produced the soviet H-bomb at the same time) and an influential advisor to Eisenhower. Teller is also the guy who convinced Reagan to go ahead with the "Star Wars" missle defense program (and if you think that "Star Wars" was a stupid idea that was cancelled, guess again, it is alive and well, just goes by other names these days). As for the rest of the movie, it was pure Hollywood. Secure facilities don't have unsecured phone line, and especially no incoming phone lines. BTW, the kid's computer was an IMSAI S-100, and the graphics (if I recall correctly) were generated by Godbout S-100 systems. Jack Peacock From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 22 15:45:51 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info In-Reply-To: <000c01bd5593$ce0aa700$0667bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Hotze wrote: > OK. What exactly does a language card do? (Sorry, I'm new at this).. A "language card" basically had an additional 16K of memory that mapped into the upper 16K of the Apple's memory and was accessed by bank switching. To switch to the RAM bank, you would access memory location $C083. To switch back to the ROM, you would access memory location $C081. The Apple ROM (including the monitor and BASIC interpreter) was also located in this region. If you switched to the RAM, your computer would lock up because all of a sudden its monitor code disappeared (you just turned on the RAM which overrode the ROM space) and it would execute an invalid instruction and halt. A reset is required. A neat thing you could do if you wanted to play around with the memory up there is to copy the monitor ROM into the language card RAM and then switch to the RAM. Since the same ROM instructions were now in the RAM, switching to the RAM was no big deal because the system just continued executing ROM code in RAM. So to do this, first get into the monitor if you're not already there by doing: ]CALL -151 * Now do: *D000 References: <3.0.1.16.19980321233924.5087dc96@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980322095811.00f643f0@pop.batnet.com> At 10:27 3/22/98 +0000, you wrote: >Card reader rollers (silicone rubber tubing used for glow plug engine >fuel lines is sometimes useful for reparing these). Tony, I've said it before and I'll say it again -- you're too much. -- kc, who once raised the compression of a Cox .020 so far that he blew off the head. From dastar at wco.com Sun Mar 22 16:28:20 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <19980322211212.1201.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage everyone who > hasn't seen it already to see it. > > I ask this question when seeing any technology-based movie; > how much of the technology is actually possible? Who was Professor > Falken in the movie based upon? Can a JOSHUA be built? > > Lastly, was there any meaning to the launch code CPE1704? Max, we had this very discussion a couple months ago. You could probably go back to the archives and read up on it. But it was a fun topic and wouldn't mind doing it all over again. To answer your first question, the technology the movie portrayed was all feasible in real life, save for the programming of Joshua. In my opinion, the plot was plausible (at least more so than _Sneakers_, and especially _Hackers_ to name a couple flicks in the genre) but still somewhat far-fetched. Everything David did in the movie was all pretty real, ie. war-dialing through a stolen calling card, getting dialtone from the payphone by grounding the microphone (still possible today but in a different way...payphone trunks are now dialtone first whereas in the WarGames era they required a coin to be dropped before you got dialtone). I also wondered if there was significance to the launch code. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 22 17:46:54 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > Note: I've changed the subject line to the appropriate chip labels. My > error when posting originally. > > On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > The Kaypro II has a chip with a sticker marked "81-146A", with the "A" > > > stamped on in read ink. The Kaypro 2 has a chip with "81-232" on it, in > > > the same location. > > > > If the layout of the two boards seem identical, the chip in the II marked > > "81-146A", which is the character generator ROM, is in the wrong location > > (U47). It should be in U43. The one in U47 should be either "81-149" or > > "81-232". They may have gotten swapped. > > Sorry about that, the chip in location U47 was "81-149C", not what I > wrote above. I guess I made the error because of the orientation of the > machines - they were connected to each others' drives and thus reversed > front-to-back, and I ran out to the other room to read the labels while in > the middle of the post. I must've read the chip location off one board, > then scanned directly across to the chip on the other board, without > taking into account the reversed orientation. :( > > > > The chips at position U87 on both motherboards are marked DM74LS390N, but > > > the one in the Kaypro II has been messed with. It's a 16-pin chip, and > > > pin 1 has been bent upward and a wire soldered onto it, which leads to pin > > > 6. Pin 9 is missing. Pins 12 and 15 are attached with a wire. > > > > > > Is this normal for a Kaypro II, or has someone made a modification? > > > > It is a modification. > > Do you (or anyone else) know if it's a known modification? What I mean > is, does anyone know why this chip might be wired up this way? Does it > solve some known problem with the Kaypro II, or make an enhancement? There were a couple of common mods that were made to K-IIs - the first more frequently than the second. The first bumped up the processor speed from 2.5mHz to 4. The second was rather more involved and upgraded the machine to double sided drives. I have not been involved with either, so I cannot do much more than relate that information. You might want to check the TCJ website and see if they have any information there. > > > Anyway, I managed to make a copy of the WordStar disk that came in the > > > drive of the II today, using my Amiga 1000, A1060 SideCar, A1020 5.25" > > > floppy drive, and TeleDisk. So now I have a disk that boots reliably > > > instead of 1 out of every 5-10 times. That meant that I now know there's > > > something wrong with the Kaypro 2, because it won't boot at all with the > > > new disk. Before, it may have just been a borderline disk that was > > > causing the problem. > > > > Not necessarily. Unless both machines used the 81-232 boot ROM, there is > > every chance that they both will not boot from the same bootable disk. > > The boot ROM determines the revision of the operating system required. > > Humm... so I've been working from bad assumptions all along. They don't > use the same boot ROM. However, as I mentioned, the Kaypro 2 did boot > from this disk when attached to the II's drives instead of its own. > > Is it possible the drives themselves have different specs that might > interfere as well? Not to my knowledge. > > > So (tell me if this was a bad/dangerous thing to do) I opened both > > > machines up and attached them to each others' disk drives. They were > > > plugged into a power bar, so I powered them up simultaneously with that. > > > > > > The Kaypro 2 boot up with no problems, using the II's drives, and the II > > > was incapable of booting using the 2's drives, so I've got the problem > > > located to drive A of the Kaypro 2 now. > > > > Maybe not. See above. > > > > > > And BTW, both the II and the 2 have full-height drives. > > > > > > Both keyboards have missing keys (including broken plungers). Will this > > > be easy to fix? > > > > The usual failure mode is for the cruciform projection on the switch > > plunger to get broken off. > > Yup. I do have a couple of missing keycaps with good plungers, but > generally I'm looking at what you describe. > > I really wish people would treat old hardware better in the Salvation Army > stores. That's where I got both of these machines (at different times), > and from previous observations, that's where I'd guess the damage > occurred. > > > You will need to unsolder the switch and > > replace it with a good one. With the benefit of a solder sucker, it is > > not necessary to remove the circuit board from the keyboard metal work. > > OK. I've had the keyboards open and it doesn't look like an easy job, > though. :/ Looks like time to review Tony's (un)soldering techniques. :) > > > > I'm thinking of fixing the 2, and using the II for parts, simply because I > > > like the colour of the 2's green phosphor monitor better (and some other > > > minor things). :) Is one model more rare than the other? IOW, does one > > > warrant saving more than the other? If not, I'll go with my feeling and > > > fix the 2 with parts from the II. > > > > The 2 is probably less common. > > OK. Considering the differing boot ROMs, though, it's possible that the > only repairs that will need doing will be to the keyboards. I'd rather > save BOTH machines than cannibalize one of them. > > I'm hoping the plungers are still made and easily available. Or > salvagable off of something of lesser value, like old PC keyboards. When you can determine the keycaps and switches that you need, send me private e-mail. We can probably arrive at some arrangement so that I can supply them to you. - don > Thanks for the info, Don! > > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 22 17:48:37 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: Apple ][ Card Info In-Reply-To: References: <000c01bd5593$ce0aa700$0667bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980322154837.00f2c280@pop.batnet.com> At 13:45 3/22/98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> OK. What exactly does a language card do? (Sorry, I'm new at this).. > >A "language card" basically had an additional 16K of memory that mapped >into the upper 16K of the Apple's memory and was accessed by bank >switching. > >To switch to the RAM bank, you would access memory location $C083. To >switch back to the ROM, you would access memory location $C081. > >The Apple ROM (including the monitor and BASIC interpreter) was also >located in this region. If you switched to the RAM, your computer would >lock up because all of a sudden its monitor code disappeared (you just >turned on the RAM which overrode the ROM space) and it would execute an >invalid instruction and halt. A reset is required. > >A neat thing you could do if you wanted to play around with the memory up >there is to copy the monitor ROM into the language card RAM and then >switch to the RAM. Since the same ROM instructions were now in the RAM, >switching to the RAM was no big deal because the system just continued >executing ROM code in RAM. > >So to do this, first get into the monitor if you're not already there by >doing: > >]CALL -151 >* > >Now do: > >*D000 >This moves the ROM code starting from $D000 through the end of memory at >$FFFF (which includes BASIC and the monitor) to the RAM. Any writes to >locations $D000-$FFFF will still be stored in the RAM (but since the ROM >is active, any reads will return the bytes in the ROM). By executing this >move instruction, you're copying ROM to RAM. > >Now turn on the language card memory: > >*C083 > >This simple memory access gates the RAM. You now have before you a fully >modifiable Apple ROM! You can start haphazardly poking bytes between >$D000-$FFFF which will eventually have the effect of royally screwing the >system up, but just temporarily...a simple reset will restore the ROM. >However, the changes you made to the RAM are still in effect! So if you >switch back over to your corrupted ROM images you'll likely still run into >problems. > >A more amusing thing to do besides having fun killing your system is to >change the BASIC keywords. These are stored starting at location $D0D0. >All but the last character of each command has their high bit off. The >last character of the command has the high (8th) bit set. This is how >Applesoft BASIC knows when it has reached the end of a command when its >parsing a statement (more clever than using an end-of-command byte, such >as $00, which would be a waste of a byte). > >So the END command (which starts at $D0D0) is stored as: > >*D0D0- 45 4E C4 > E N D <-- 'D' = 44 + 80 = C4 > >You could change the END command to FIN by putting in: > >D0D0: 46 49 CE > F I N <-- 'N' = 4E + 80 = CE > >Of course, renaming all the BASIC keywords is fun but rather pointless. A >better thing to do would be to re-write BASIC altogether if you were so >inclined, and perhaps add features to the monitor ROM (which occupies >$F800-$FFF). But in order to do this, you had to strip out unneeded >features of the ROM since the code was so compact to begin with there is >absolutely no space left (a testament to the coding brilliance of the >Woz!) Some people would remove the montior cassette routines (which were >used to write/read blocks of raw memory to/from cassette) which were >generally of limited usefulness after disk drives and replace them with >routines to help them crack games. > >If you made your own ROM, you could simply save it as binary to disk, then >every time you booted your system you could have your "HELLO" program >BLOAD it back into the RAM and then switch to RAM. A customizable home >computer! Of course, you could also burn your code into an EPROM and and >replace Apple's ROMs, but the beauty of the Apple was that you didn't have >to go through all this trouble...it was so damn easy to hack!!! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 22 16:19:03 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Doug Spence "Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232" (Mar 22, 7:16) References: Message-ID: <9803222219.ZM366@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 22, 7:16, Doug Spence wrote: > Subject: Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 > > Well, I've repeated what I did the other night. I plugged the Kaypro II > into the Kaypro 2's drives, and vice versa. Just the ribbon cable, not > the power. Whichever machine was plugged into the Kaypro II's drives was > able to boot, the machine plugged into the 2's drives just sits there with > the bootup message and eventually beeps and says "I cannot read your disk" > (or similar). I don't know much about Kaypros, but is it possible that one of the sets of drives is 40-track and the other is 80-track? Or that one set is single-sided and the other is double-sided? When you start up the machine and it tries to boot, does a light come on, on the disk drive (which would indicate that the drive is being accessed)? > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, which select one of four disk addresses. They may be labelled DS0, DS1, DS2, DS3 or perhaps D1, D2, D3, D4. D0=A and D1=B. You just need to switch the jumper settings. Even if they're not labeled, you should find that all but one of the jumpers (the drive select jumper) in one drive match the jumpers in the other drive (of the ame pair). If you open up the drive case and tell us what the make and model number of the actual drive mechanism is, someone can probably tell you the jumper settings and whether the drive is 40/80 or SS/DS. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 22 18:15:05 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > Well, I've repeated what I did the other night. I plugged the Kaypro II > into the Kaypro 2's drives, and vice versa. Just the ribbon cable, not > the power. Whichever machine was plugged into the Kaypro II's drives was > able to boot, the machine plugged into the 2's drives just sits there with > the bootup message and eventually beeps and says "I cannot read your disk" > (or similar). Interesting! Take a look at the back side of the II's drives and see if you can identify the small black 'cable' that leads to the head. It will move as the heads move. Anyway, if you spot two, then the machine has double sided drives and that could be the reason that the 2's drives - single sided - cannot read the disk. > I tried swapping the II's 81-149C with the 2's 81-232. Neither will work > with the other's ROM. The machines light both drive lights and fill their > screens with garbage characters (many of which are flashing). I even > tried swapping BOTH the boot ROMs and the character generator ROMs > together, in case they depend on one another, but got the same symptoms. > > So the ROMs aren't even compatible between machines. > > I looked at the other chips in the vicinity of the ROMs, and all part > numbers matched. And there are no obvious differences between the > motherboards except for that wired-up chip I mentioned in the II. > > Very odd. > > Obviously I didn't follow all of the traces on the motherboards to see if > they matched. :) If you compare the part numbers on the motherboards - assuming that they are there - you will find that the board on the II is an 81-110, whereas the 2 should be either 81-184 or 240. They are not the same board. > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. This is usually set by a socketed DIP jumper plug on the drive circuit board located near the ribbon cable connector. It could be a DIP switch, but not usually. If the DIP jumper plug and they are both in the same position, just swap them. If they are in different positions, then swap the positions on both drives. These DIP jumper plugs have a frangible strap between opposing pins, and usually all but one or two are broken. - don > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 22 18:18:53 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: <9803222219.ZM366@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 22, 7:16, Doug Spence wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 > > > > Well, I've repeated what I did the other night. I plugged the Kaypro II > > into the Kaypro 2's drives, and vice versa. Just the ribbon cable, not > > the power. Whichever machine was plugged into the Kaypro II's drives was > > able to boot, the machine plugged into the 2's drives just sits there with > > the bootup message and eventually beeps and says "I cannot read your disk" > > (or similar). > > I don't know much about Kaypros, but is it possible that one of the sets of > drives is 40-track and the other is 80-track? Or that one set is single-sided > and the other is double-sided? When you start up the machine and it tries to > boot, does a light come on, on the disk drive (which would indicate that the > drive is being accessed)? > > > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. > > Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, which > select one of four disk addresses. They may be labelled DS0, DS1, DS2, DS3 or > perhaps D1, D2, D3, D4. D0=A and D1=B. You just need to switch the jumper > settings. Even if they're not labeled, you should find that all but one of the > jumpers (the drive select jumper) in one drive match the jumpers in the other > drive (of the ame pair). Unfortunately, Pete, very few of the full high floppy drive makers were considerate enough to mark them that way. That pretty much came about when they went to Berg jumpers for selection. > If you open up the drive case and tell us what the make and model number of the > actual drive mechanism is, someone can probably tell you the jumper settings > and whether the drive is 40/80 or SS/DS. > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 22 18:50:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Wargames References: <010601bd55da$9c1475e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <3515B1C7.86202BE0@bbtel.com> Jack Peacock wrote: > >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage > everyone who > >hasn't seen it already to see it. > > > >I ask this question when seeing any technology-based movie; > >how much of the technology is actually possible? Who was > Professor > >Falken in the movie based upon? Can a JOSHUA be built? > > > > Look for another movie sometime, "Dr. Strangelove". The crazed > nuclear scientist character in most all movies is based on Dr. > Edward Teller, father of the US H-bomb (Sakharov produced the > soviet H-bomb at the same time) and an influential advisor to > Eisenhower. Teller is also the guy who convinced Reagan to go > ahead with the "Star Wars" missle defense program (and if you > think that "Star Wars" was a stupid idea that was cancelled, > guess again, it is alive and well, just goes by other names > these days). > > As for the rest of the movie, it was pure Hollywood. Secure > facilities don't have unsecured phone line, and especially no > incoming phone lines. BTW, the kid's computer was an IMSAI > S-100, and the graphics (if I recall correctly) were generated > by Godbout S-100 systems. > Jack Peacock Is it just me or have these movies been out and already been tossed in the bargain rental area at the video stores? You guys need to get out more ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 22 18:54:19 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: GPIB + disk drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I could use a quick tutorial on GPIB as it applies to computer device interfacing. I want to read an external hard disk that belongs to a GRiD w/a GPIB interface. I recently picked up at National Instruments GPIB-PC-II card, found the drivers on their web site, and stuck the thing in my Toshiba T5200 (a nice little box that should hit classic status some time soon). The card and low-level drivers seem to work great, but I can't find any higher-level drivers that know how to talk to this drive (or any drive, for that matter). Do drives that talk GPIB all talk the same way? If so, any idea where I might be able to find an MS-DOS driver that sits on top of the GPIB driver I've installed? Should I give up on this approach and simply pull the drive out of the box and see if I can talk to it with an MFM controller? It's a 10MB 5.25" drive from around 1982, so I'm assuming it's a Seagate. -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Sun Mar 22 19:00:16 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <020101bd55f7$0b7e94d0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > >> >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage >> Look for another movie sometime, "Dr. Strangelove". The crazed > >Is it just me or have these movies been out and already been tossed in >the bargain rental area at the video stores? You guys need to get out >more ;-) And here I was trying to be on topic, considering only movies with computers more than 10 years old. Which reminds me, what was the computer in "Dr. Strangelove", the scene where Peter Sellers is the British officer in the computer room at the Alaska airbase? Was it an IBM 1401? (now this is real computer trivia) Jack Peacock From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Mar 22 14:09:59 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <3515B1C7.86202BE0@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199803230103.UAA05210@mail.cgocable.net> > Jack Peacock wrote: > > > >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage > > everyone who > > >hasn't seen it already to see it. You're way way late!!!!?? I think this movie was out in early 80's I think because I saw it on tape back in roughly '84. And I recalled that very well even I was at tender age. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 22 18:33:07 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Don Maslin "Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232" (Mar 22, 16:18) References: Message-ID: <9803230033.ZM496@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 22, 16:18, Don Maslin wrote: > Subject: Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, > > which select one of four disk addresses. They may be labelled DS0, DS1, > > DS2, DS3 or > > perhaps D1, D2, D3, D4. D0=A and D1=B. You just need to switch the jumper > > settings. Even if they're not labeled, you should find that all but one of > > the jumpers (the drive select jumper) in one drive match the jumpers in the > > other drive (of the ame pair). > > Unfortunately, Pete, very few of the full high floppy drive makers were > considerate enough to mark them that way. That pretty much came about > when they went to Berg jumpers for selection. I dunno, I've got a few full-height CDC and Tandon drives that are marked. But, yes, sadly a lot of drives aren't, which is why I suggested comparing each drive of a pair -- hopefully they're the same model. > > If you open up the drive case and tell us what the make and model number of > > the actual drive mechanism is, someone can probably tell you the jumper > > settings and whether the drive is 40/80 or SS/DS. Well, maybe. :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Mar 22 19:45:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <19980323014542.9078.qmail@hotmail.com> For one thing, this IS on topic, just as classic computer books. I only saw it now because I was born a year before its release, and left the USSR, where it was not available, in 1991. >I think this movie was out in early 80's I think because I saw it on >tape back in roughly '84. And I recalled that very well even I was >at tender age. :) > >Jason D. >email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca >Pero, Jason D. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 22 19:59:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Wargames References: <19980323014542.9078.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3515C21D.52944559@bbtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > For one thing, this IS on topic, just as classic computer books. > I only saw it now because I was born a year before its release, and > left the USSR, where it was not available, in 1991. > >I think this movie was out in early 80's I think because I saw it on > >tape back in roughly '84. And I recalled that very well even I was > >at tender age. :) > > > >Jason D. > >email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > >Pero, Jason D. Dang, most of us have shoes older than you ;-> > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 22 19:58:25 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Amiga A1060 SideCar Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980322195825.00c41910@pc> Doug Spence wrote: [8,349,320 lines of Sidecar wondering deleted] I'll bet a doughnut there are at least two Sidecar sites on the net, given the known rabidity of Amiga enthusiasts. I'll also bet that by posting on the relevant Amiga news groups, you'll be in e-mail contact with an engineer who worked on it. I've got most of the Amiga dev con notes in the basement, along with some rare Janus programming docs and disks, but I'm not sure they'd be relevant to your ROM version. A year or so ago, I saw a very interesting Amiga collection go up for auction: a pristine, still-in-the-unopened-boxes Amiga 1000, complete with RAM sidecar, parallel-port hard disk, etc. It was something left over from Commodore that someone rescued in the last days. I'm still hoarding my collection of never-shipped aluminium "boing" logos that fit in the little square on the corner of the A1000. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From coble at erols.com Sun Mar 22 20:23:30 1998 From: coble at erols.com (Matthew Coble) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Hi! Message-ID: <3515C7A2.5C98@erols.com> Hi, Hi I was woundering how much is the Colecovision, and the Atari 5200 is w/shipping please. e-mail me back at coble@erols.com THANKS, -MATT From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 22 18:25:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: GPIB + disk drives In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 22, 98 06:54:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/42ef7d20/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 22 21:36:25 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Next Computers References: Message-ID: <3515D8B9.CE0D0B2D@rain.org> I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The person I talked to said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were 5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about they couldn't get the cursor to move. From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 22 21:45:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Next Computers References: <3515D8B9.CE0D0B2D@rain.org> Message-ID: <3515DAF2.ABAC4CA8@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The person I talked to > said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and > mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were > 5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is > supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about > they couldn't get the cursor to move. Hopefully they're within pickup distance as those NeXT stattion monitors alone weigh a ton. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 22 21:54:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Next Computers In-Reply-To: <3515D8B9.CE0D0B2D@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The person I talked to > said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and > mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were > 5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is > supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about > they couldn't get the cursor to move. Next made several models. $350 is way high for the slabs, a bit high for the mono cubes, and a good deal for the color cubes. The original cube is probably the interesting one from a collector's standpoint, and they seem to go for under $300. I've resisted the temptation to get one so far. The software was more innovative than the hardware, and I believe you can get NextStep (and GnuStep) for intel boxen. -- Doug From maynard at jmg.com Sun Mar 22 23:55:35 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: [OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions Message-ID: <199803230555.AAA05740@mr-gateway.internal.net> OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to a FAQ would be most welcome. These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA frequencies for several video and text modes. It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they do this? Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): Dot Clock Per Second Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- Horizontal Scanning Rate Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: Dot Clock Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need Dot Clock Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- Refresh Rate Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start with a DCL of 10Mhz... 10Mhz Dot Clock 128 Horizontal Pixels = ----------------------------- 78125 hz Vertical Scan Rate 10 Mhz Dot Clock 138888 Total Pixels = --------------------------- 72 hz Refresh Rate 138888.88 Pixels 1085 Vertical Lines Per Frame = ----------------------- 128 Horizontal Pixels Sheesh! A (total) screen resolution of 128H x 1085V? What about a 20 Mhz dot clock? Well, after graphing the results I quickly observed this: S | T C | o R R | 128H 256H 384H 512H 640H 1728H ** T E E | x x x x x x A E S | 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V L N | | DCL ----+------+-------+-------+-------+------- [...] ----+----- 10 20 30 40 50 135 (** Perfect for a usful screen resolution of 1280x1024) So, based on this, I cannot get small or talored screen resolutions unless I am willing to accept wide borders and strange resolutions. Yet my card works....It does _not_ display this behavior... so I suspect my thinking is to blame. Will someone please correct me? Apologies if you consider this post off topic... J. Maynard Gelinas From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 22 22:53:59 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Big pile o' junk^H^H^H^Htreasure... ;-) Message-ID: <351bea74.84088512@hoser> Found this in another newsgroup; thought it might be of interest to some on this list. I have no connection whatsoever with this person. FWIW... >Macintosh II system. >8 Megs of Ram >80-to-120 meg HDD >Mouse >Keyboard (extended ) >Color Mac Monitor >2400 External Zoom Modem >Macintosh SE >4 Megs of Ram >20 Meg HDD >Keyboard >Mouse >Built-in 9 inch BW monitor >External Disk Drive >Hayes Smartmodem ( 2400 ) external >Okimate 20 color/bw thermal printer. >Atari 800XL Computer System >1020 printer with 2 carts >Tape Drive >Intro Tapes >All manuals and an extra programming book >Power supplies for every thing >Intellivison System >53 games >Intellivision ECS ( computer add-on ) >ECS computer keyboard >Manuals for the ECS >Manuals for some of the games >TI-99 4A computer system >RF-converter, no power cord >1 386 motherboard >1 486 motherboard with overdrive, built in floppy and IDE controllers >1 486 motherboard >Various Games on CD and Floppy >2 Video Seven video cards >1 Video Flex Card >Other Cards, some unknown >1 IBM 5150 computer >Quad board ( mem card ) >2400 bps modem >IBM keyboard >10 meg Plus Hard Card >Various other cards for this system. >Programs on 5.25 inch disks > >Will sell parts or whole systems or 450.00 + shipping for the whole package. >Some of this stuff is and will be worth money in a few years. > >Please Reply via e-mail >The Basement: Computer Org. >swolfe1@mindspring.com >or Call: 301-463-2812 > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Mar 22 19:16:23 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: One sucess scored....yeah right and I was surprised. In-Reply-To: <9803230033.ZM496@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: Don Maslin "Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232" (Mar 22, 16:18) Message-ID: <199803230609.BAA11456@mail.cgocable.net> Remember when I got first WD VGA plus 16 made by WD years ago in mid 91 and that died, too bad tossed out, that's was hacked to 512K too and the PCB is yellow 2 layer type. Hee, hee, I did not throw out manuals and that how I kept that 8 years old manual for that card! I just got another one dead (green 2 layer). No boops-beeps even the machine booted up with display blank, that is very telling clues... Unsoldered that stupid RAMDAC, they usually are high-failure rate and tried that on working junky generic and that chip worked. Borrowed that working chip from it and socketed it in that WD card. Same story, blank. Thinking...freshly reminded to suspect unassuming components and sometimes inductors abend often than resistors alone thanks to the usenet readings. (!!? how that be?). Probed to only 2 blue inductors. L1 is Open, and other one is living. Aha. Scratching around finding one off a junked stepper IDE samsung and it's tad small but same value for testing. Worked. Uh? I'm caught with that pants down on this...why inductors that uses fine wire and used in low power area, hard to imagine that would fail. Now, looking for extra 8 x 64k x 4bit 80ns and one 33ohm 16 pin SMD to up that thing to 512K as I already sucked out all solder out of those holes when I was at it repairing it. Btw, why I'm blathering around about this? Cuz this IS nearing 9 year mark and will hit 10 year next year or so. Also this has signficence to me because I was so frustrated with junk 386 with that similar card I had and this brought back memories. Oh, I have this horrid IBM 8 bit VGA adapter card, slow and imcompatiable with some boards that did not follow BIOS design properly. Compared to many video cards, between that slowest Trident 16bit /CL 16 bit/IBM adapter 8 bit card and the quick Tseng et4000 card I have as well, this card no wonder is pretty reasonably quick but no match for this old fashioned ET4000ax card. Ahem, IBM used this Tseng chips also in few of their newer PS/1 486 series, that one with flip open door and a hand-operated latch behind that door to unlock and pull the case cover off. Curious: Is there's a FASTEST frame-buffered (S)VGA ISA 16bit card that beat ET4000ax ones? The setup is tested using fast cached 386 or greater with both BIOS and VIDEO shadowing enabled (the IBM bios is located queerly so that shadowing did not work too well) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 23 00:34:45 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Hurry up and save this PET! Message-ID: <35160285.4C7FE9A0@crl.com> Note the short fuse this guy has! > Subject: Old computer stuff > From: rhutch@nbnet.nb.ca (Rod Hutchinson) > Date: 1997/03/22 > Message-ID: <3333f242.44219309@news.nbnet.nb.ca> > Newsgroups: nb.forsale > > I have some old hardware that if you find it interesting or require it > for some reason then it is yours, just drop by and pick it up. > > Commadore PET computer with printer > > Headstart 286 Motherboard > > and some old 16 bit I/O cards > > if you live in the Oromocto area you can call at 357 8612 > > we move on tues and anything left fills the landfill. > > -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 23 00:39:49 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Next Computers In-Reply-To: References: <3515D8B9.CE0D0B2D@rain.org> Message-ID: >On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote: > >> I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The person I talked to >> said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and >> mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were >> 5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is >> supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about >> they couldn't get the cursor to move. > >Next made several models. $350 is way high for the slabs, a bit high for >the mono cubes, and a good deal for the color cubes. The original cube is >probably the interesting one from a collector's standpoint, and they seem >to go for under $300. I've resisted the temptation to get one so far. >The software was more innovative than the hardware, and I believe you can >get NextStep (and GnuStep) for intel boxen. As stated it depends on the model, also depends on RAM and HD. If you get any make sure you get a copy of the OS, preferably on CD. I believe they will run all versions of the OS through OPENSTEP 4.2 which came out last summer. Anything newer will basically look like a Mac, the next version should be publically available in a couple months from what I've heard, and rumor has it that it might even be affordable. Last I heard a basic OPENSTEP 4.2 cost about $1500.00, and the Developer setup $5000.00! So if you just want to play a little an old NeXT system with NeXTstep 3.3 or so is a great way to do it. It's a neat OS, and OPENSTEP 4.2 runs nicely on a Pentium 133 (NeXT's are 68k based), but if you're used to UNIX it will probably seem a little confusing when you try to configure networking. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mor at crl.com Mon Mar 23 01:56:21 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Hurry up and save this PET! References: <35160285.4C7FE9A0@crl.com> Message-ID: <351615A5.532D3A3F@crl.com> Greg Troutman wrote: > > Note the short fuse this guy has! Ooops! Never mind ;) Wonder what happened to it, after all... -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 23 03:58:00 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > There were a couple of common mods that were made to K-IIs - the first > more frequently than the second. The first bumped up the processor speed > from 2.5mHz to 4. The second was rather more involved and upgraded the > machine to double sided drives. I have not been involved with either, so > I cannot do much more than relate that information. You might want to > check the TCJ website and see if they have any information there. I visited, but didn't look too hard. I see that one can buy drives and other parts for the Kaypro through the TCJ website, though. The numbers on all of the oscillators match, between the two machines, though I suppose that isn't a definitive way of telling if a machine has been accelerated or not. Especially considering the possibility that BOTH of them could have had this done to them. :) Niether the II nor the 2 has double-sided drives, BTW. > > I'm hoping the plungers are still made and easily available. Or > > salvagable off of something of lesser value, like old PC keyboards. > > When you can determine the keycaps and switches that you need, send me > private e-mail. We can probably arrive at some arrangement so that I can > supply them to you. OK, thanks. It's an easy job figuring out which ones I need, assuming that the keys with no obvious damage still work. > - don Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 23 04:18:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: <9803222219.ZM366@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I don't know much about Kaypros, but is it possible that one of the sets of > drives is 40-track and the other is 80-track? I don't know enough about Kaypros myself to answer this one. > Or that one set is single-sided and the other is double-sided? Both machines have single-sided drives. And the boot disk I'm using is definitely single-sided, because I duplicated it using TeleDisk with side 0 only, and the copy boots up and runs WordStar just fine. > When you start up the machine and it tries to boot, does a light come on, > on the disk drive (which would indicate that the drive is being accessed)? Yes. The light for drive A comes on, and the motors for both drives come on. I get the same response out of the machine whether I use the Kaypro boot disk or an MS-DOS disk. But it is paying enough attention that it immediately tells me "I cannot read your diskette" when I insert a cleaning disk. :) [which makes cleaning a bit difficult] Also, just for the hell of it (and it's probably a Bad Thing(tm)) I nudged the head forward when the machine was off, to see if it would move when power was applied. And it did move back to its usual position. > > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. > > Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, which > select one of four disk addresses. They may be labelled DS0, DS1, DS2, DS3 or > perhaps D1, D2, D3, D4. D0=A and D1=B. I'm afraid it's not that easy. I did pull out the flashlight and take some good close looks inside the drives tonight, though, and I think I know how it determines the drive number now. At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a BLUE 16-pin chip. Just in case it was simply a matter of a missing part in drive A of the Kaypro 2, I inspected the Kaypro II's drives, and they were identical. There's a blue 16-pin chip sitting in the socket of drive B, and not in drive A. That along with the "2F" labelling seems to be pretty clear. Now the problem is swapping that "chip" from one drive to the other. I don't think I should even make the attempt without first getting the drives out of the machine. Which means I need an appropriately-sized 6-sided screwdriver. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 23 04:37:03 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > Interesting! Take a look at the back side of the II's drives and see if > you can identify the small black 'cable' that leads to the head. It will > move as the heads move. Anyway, if you spot two, then the machine has > double sided drives and that could be the reason that the 2's drives - > single sided - cannot read the disk. Both machines have single-sided drives, and the disk I have is definitely single-sided. > If you compare the part numbers on the motherboards - assuming that they > are there - you will find that the board on the II is an 81-110, whereas > the 2 should be either 81-184 or 240. They are not the same board. The 2 has an 81-240A. I can't find a number on the II's motherboard. > > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. > > This is usually set by a socketed DIP jumper plug on the drive circuit > board located near the ribbon cable connector. It could be a DIP switch, > but not usually. If the DIP jumper plug and they are both in the same > position, just swap them. If they are in different positions, then swap > the positions on both drives. These DIP jumper plugs have a frangible > strap between opposing pins, and usually all but one or two are broken. All I can see through the back is what looks like a blue 16-pin DIP chip in a socket labeled "2F" in drive B and not drive A. This is probably the jumper plug you're talking about. I can't see the top surface, so I can't see if there are straps, broken or otherwise. I could probably remove the thing from drive B, but inserting it into the other drive would be impossible without removing the drive from the metal housing. Of course, if I simply removed the part from drive B, and connected the ribbon cable to B and not to A, it might work. I'd rather not have another loose part to keep track of until I get the right tool to reinstall the thing, though. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Mar 23 06:26:59 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Drive crash Message-ID: <002a01bd5656$fa0d6540$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Chances are your drive just needs the head cleaned and to be speed calibrated. There are many documents on the web on how to speed calibrate your drive, but if you need more assistance, I do these drives all the time. Just let me know. -----Original Message----- From: CharlesII@nwonline.net To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, March 22, 1998 3:14 PM Subject: Drive crash >My Atari 1050 disk drive crashed. When I try to boot a disk from it I >get beep boot error beep beep boot error etc. I think I remember >somthing about the beeps being a message when a boot error happens if so >could somone tell me what it means and how to fix it since I don't see >anything physicaly worng with the drive on the inside. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 23 07:23:25 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Doug Spence "Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232" (Mar 23, 5:18) References: Message-ID: <9803231323.ZM7058@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 23, 5:18, Doug Spence wrote: > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I don't know much about Kaypros, but is it possible that one of the sets of > > drives is 40-track and the other is 80-track? > > I don't know enough about Kaypros myself to answer this one. > > > Or that one set is single-sided and the other is double-sided? > > Both machines have single-sided drives. And the boot disk I'm using is > definitely single-sided, because I duplicated it using TeleDisk with side > 0 only, and the copy boots up and runs WordStar just fine. > > > When you start up the machine and it tries to boot, does a light come on, > > on the disk drive (which would indicate that the drive is being accessed)? > > Yes. The light for drive A comes on, and the motors for both drives come > on. > > I get the same response out of the machine whether I use the Kaypro boot > disk or an MS-DOS disk. But it is paying enough attention that it > immediately tells me "I cannot read your diskette" when I insert a > cleaning disk. :) [which makes cleaning a bit difficult] > > Also, just for the hell of it (and it's probably a Bad Thing(tm)) I nudged > the head forward when the machine was off, to see if it would move when > power was applied. And it did move back to its usual position. Well, if the ones that don't boot do move the heads, and the light comes on, sounds like the machine can "see" them and make them respond, but just can't read the data. It's still possible they're faulty, but if they're all single-sided, my guess is that one pair is 40-track and the other is 80-track. However, if this were the case, I'd expect that the boot would go partway (the drive would probably read track 0 OK, but not any other). > > Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, > I'm afraid it's not that easy. I did pull out the flashlight and take > some good close looks inside the drives tonight, though, and I think I > know how it determines the drive number now. > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > BLUE 16-pin chip. That is almost certainly a terminator resistor pack, and doesn't affect the drive selection. Whichever drive is whichever number, that pack belongs in the last drive on the chain. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 23 08:02:26 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Aquarius hardware/software list! Message-ID: <016501bd5664$5085b460$61f438cb@nostromo> I've compiled a list of known hardware and software for the Mattel / Radofin Aquarius and Aquarius II computers. Please let me know if you know of anything more, or if (*gasp*) I've made an error somewhere! http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius.html Cheers A From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Mar 23 10:13:50 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Televideo TS803 $10 in L.A. Message-ID: <35168A3E.4012@ricochet.net> Televideo TS 803 plus, $10/OBO, Used GIVEAWAY: Mint condition "Televideo" (old CPM system, like Kaypros) from 1983. More than a word processor--many functions. Reliable workhorse, beautiful ergonomic design, never sick one day. Complete original manuals, Wordstar disk & manual, other system disks, and compatible Fortis printer in excellent condition. Worth much more than price--$10. For sale by private party Los Angeles, California - L.A. Area 91030 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Mar 23 10:18:16 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Imsai case/mb Message-ID: <35168B48.153D@ricochet.net> Found this on Classifieds 2000... In light of recent sales, might be a good deal. IMSAI S-100 crate, $300/OBO, Used IMSAI S-100 crate with power supply and terminated mother board. For sale by private party Los Osos, California - All other areas 93402 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 23 10:13:34 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Tuning 8" floppies Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980323101334.0089aeb0@pop3.webzone.net> I have a MicroTech ReformaTTer unit with two 8" NEC floppies attached to a PC with the MicroTech FDC. Both drives seemed to be in need of a tune-up (head alignment, in particular) when I installed the unit, and now (this is four yrs. later) I can only read diskettes with one drive, the other just gives me "sector not found" errors. Is it practical for me (me = board swapper) to try to align the heads on these drives manually by trial and error? Is there still a source for the disk required to do it the right way? I have access to a scope if I need one. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 23 09:44:10 1998 From: ljw at formula1.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: 'SIMPLE' (was:Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.../old basics) In-Reply-To: <199803182019.UAA27450@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: In article <199803182019.UAA27450@irwell.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk writes >On 1998-03-17 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet.co.uk > : : > :Simple yes, useful? If you've only got 512B of RAM, or a 256B PROM, then yes :-) > >there have been a few tiny languages built over the years. there was >SIMPLE (and can someone describle it here please?) This is from memory, and is surely wrong in places. I am sure almost all of A-Z did something: A Accept a single keystroke to the 8-bit 'accumulator' C Remainder of line is a comment D Decrement accumulator E End Gn Get variable n (n=0-9) to accumulator I Increment accumulator Jn Jump to the nth '*' in the program Mx Compare (match) accumulator to character x N Skip rest of line if last match was true Pn Put accumulator to variable n R Return from subroutine Sn Jump to subroutine (nth '*') T Type remainder of line to console U User function (user-supplied machine code) Y Skip rest of line if last match was false Hence: C A pointless program *TWould you like to play a game? (Y/N) AMYYJ2 MyYJ2 TOh well, some other time E *TOK, but this is going to be a short game J1 Punctuation characters #$/ etc. were used for editing. The main limitation of the program editor was that you couldn't extend lines once you'd entered them, but you could overtype or shorten them. At one point Peter Gutmann was going to hide this inside 'hpack', I'm not sure whether it ever made it in. -- Lawrence Wilkinson ljw@formula1.demon.co.uk The GirlFrendo homepage: http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk/girlfrendo/ "You've got the brains, or so you say, maybe you see things another way"-bis From jharper at bs2000.com Mon Mar 23 10:16:26 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Available... In-Reply-To: <9803212239.AA05332@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.1.32.19980321113649.007883e8@teal.csn.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980323091626.00787f44@teal.csn.net> At 14:39 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Believe it or not, I am not sure -- I am at work at the moment but will >> check when I get home tonight. >> >> This thing is in a big grey steel box with no switches, logos etc... > >The real definitive things are: > >1. The backplane model number > >and > >2. The Mnnnn identifiers on the cards. > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > > I had a chance to take a look on the backside of the giant box hoping to find a model number type thing -- nothing there at all... Looks like I will have to open it up and take a peek to really determine its true identity... Regards Jack --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From jharper at bs2000.com Mon Mar 23 10:51:31 1998 From: jharper at bs2000.com (Jack Harper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3620 Alive - Hooray... In-Reply-To: <199803230609.BAA11456@mail.cgocable.net> References: <9803230033.ZM496@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980323095131.00787f44@teal.csn.net> Hooray -- I managed to get the Symbolics 3620 up and alive after carefully checking everything that I could (shorts etc). It just happily created a million-element binary tree with hordes of garbage collections. Other than a bit of noise coming from one of the disk drives it seems OK. The enormous Symbolics 3650 is, however, another story. I did power it up and only get a blank screen -- the thing draws six amps at 120VAC and sounds like a hurricane when it is running... A bit more work will be needed. My office mates are beginning to wonder... Regards to all... Jack Harper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper Bank Systems 2000, Inc. 303-277-1892 Golden, Colorado USA "21st Century Financial Applications" Optical Cards for Bank, EBT, and Medical Applications Visit our Web Page: http://www.bs2000.com/talos (Last Update: 970902) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 23 12:18:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: GPIB + disk drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980323121854.3a87cf94@intellistar.net> At 12:25 AM 3/23/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I could use a quick tutorial on GPIB as it applies to computer device >> interfacing. > >GPIB ~ IEEE-488 ~ HPIB... > >The original IEEE-488 standard only specified the _hardware_ of the >interface - signals, timing, etc. It meant that two devices could be >plugged together without the magic smoke leaking out, data could flow, >but they needn't understand each other. > >Certainly later HPIB standards specified things like the ASCII character >set would be used for text, and that numbers would be sent as normally >read - most significant digit first if sent in ascii. > >The command sets for particular devices AFAIK were never specified. HP >had a whole lot of them for their own peripherals, but other >manufacturers were free to do what they wanted. > >[Reading GRID drive] >> The card and low-level drivers seem to work great, but I can't find any >> higher-level drivers that know how to talk to this drive (or any drive, >> for that matter). Do drives that talk GPIB all talk the same way? No, HP uses at least three different "standard" command sets for drives and countless non-standard ones. I have a LARGE book from HP that gives file conversion programs for some instruments (not even computers/calculators or anything else) and there are probably well over a hundred formats described in it. If so, > >Not at all, alas. HP drives probably use the CS/80 command set, or the >cut-down Amigo command set. Commodore PET drives had their own commands >which made extensive use of extended secondary addresses. Other >manufacturers probably did their own thing. Tony's right, many manufacturers didn't implement the full set of HP-IB commands/functions. If you look at many HP-IB devices, you find a codes like SH 0, AH 1, DC 2, etc printed near the HP-IB port. The letters are the abbreviation for different command or functions and the number gives the capability level for that function. 0 always means no capability. But full capability is 1 for some functions like Source Handshake (SH) or it may be as high as 8 for others. You'll have to get the specification from IEEE or HP or another manufacturer to understand the codes. > >> any idea where I might be able to find an MS-DOS driver that sits on top >> of the GPIB driver I've installed? > >HP sold a driver to use some of the smaller HP disk and tape units with >an MS-DOS machine. Probably absolutely no use for this problem, though. > >> >> Should I give up on this approach and simply pull the drive out of the box >> and see if I can talk to it with an MFM controller? It's a 10MB 5.25" >> drive from around 1982, so I'm assuming it's a Seagate. It could be almost anything. I've seen Seagate 225s in some drive boxs but large Quantum drives in other box with the same model number! > >Alas MFM controllers are equally non-standard at the format level. So >it's not at all certain that a PC controller could make sense of the data >on this drive. MFM would definitely *NOT* make sense of the data! The formats are completely different! There is no FAT table on HP drives and when you format them, you tell the system how many files to allocate on the drive and it creates that many directory entries, so the number of dir entries isn't even constant! PLUS many of the drives are partioned by hardware control. You might be able to use the drive but you'll have to LL format it and start from scratch. Joe > >> >> -- Doug >> >> >> > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 23 12:37:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: GPIB + disk drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980323123721.4487c4f4@intellistar.net> Doug, I saw Tony's reply and responded to it before seeing this one. I thought you had an HP drive but since it's a GRID drive I can't say what kind of format or command set it uses. At 06:54 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >I could use a quick tutorial on GPIB as it applies to computer device >interfacing. > >I want to read an external hard disk that belongs to a GRiD w/a GPIB >interface. I recently picked up at National Instruments GPIB-PC-II card, >found the drivers on their web site, and stuck the thing in my Toshiba >T5200 (a nice little box that should hit classic status some time soon). > >The card and low-level drivers seem to work great, but I can't find any >higher-level drivers that know how to talk to this drive (or any drive, >for that matter). Do drives that talk GPIB all talk the same way? If so, >any idea where I might be able to find an MS-DOS driver that sits on top >of the GPIB driver I've installed? Many PC type HP-IB drivers assign the HP-IB interface as a COM or LPT port and are used to drive plotters only, not disk drives. > >Should I give up on this approach and simply pull the drive out of the box >and see if I can talk to it with an MFM controller? It's a 10MB 5.25" >drive from around 1982, so I'm assuming it's a Seagate. You could try, I have no idea if it would work. I have one of the HP kits with the HP-IB card and software that can be installed on a MS-DOS PC to operate some of their disk and tape drives. Email me if you want to borrow it and try to connect your drive with it. Joe > >-- Doug > > > From djenner at halcyon.com Mon Mar 23 11:57:44 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT Message-ID: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 volts. So, what's the acceptable voltage range, especially on the low end? And any good sources? Thanks, Dave From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 23 12:02:44 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980323120244.00850450@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:57 AM 3/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the >CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the >kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. > >I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store >doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 >volts. > >Thanks, >Dave > This battery should still be fairly common. You should be able to pick one up from Radio Shack. I don't think the voltage has to be exactly 6.8. The package should list compatability, if not there should be a listing in the store with a P/N xref. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 23 07:21:59 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <199803231814.NAA10151@mail.cgocable.net> Nice machine. :) All you need is either: 4.5V or 6V external battery and that is either alki or lithium battery. The actual operating cmos stand by voltage is appox 3v cut down by series of diodes network. How big the motherboard? There's 2 types, one is large size and use 36 chips using stacked 128k x 1bit chips, the smaller one (better one) has 18 chips of 256k x 1bit memory, And bios is clock-protected if anyone tries to overclock that boards, no boot and can be unprotected with manual editing to the bios contents and burn pair of new bios chips. Jason D. > I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the > CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the > kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. > > I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store > doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 > volts. > > So, what's the acceptable voltage range, especially on the low end? And > any good sources? > > Thanks, > Dave email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Mar 23 12:27:16 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT Message-ID: <1998Mar23.132541.1767.90758@smtp.itgonline.com> Typically the CMOS battery voltage runs from 3.6V to 6.8, either should do okay (in my experience). Try Fedco @ 1-800-542-9761 or Battery Biz @ 1-800-848-6782. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: CMOS Battery for PC/AT Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/23/98 1:11 PM At 09:57 AM 3/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the >CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the >kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. > >I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store >doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 >volts. > >Thanks, >Dave > This battery should still be fairly common. You should be able to pick one up from Radio Shack. I don't think the voltage has to be exactly 6.8. The package should list compatability, if not there should be a listing in the store with a P/N xref. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar23.131139.1767.33482; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:11:40 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA19694; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:04:45 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA38068 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:04:39 -0800 Received: from mail2.webzone.net (mail2.webzone.net [205.219.23.7]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id KAA23690 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:04:38 -0800 Received: from fish.bigass.bogus ([208.137.187.34]) by mail2.webzone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id AAA213 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:03:55 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980323120244.00850450@pop3.webzone.net> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:02:44 -0600 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Wollmann To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: dwollmann@pop3.webzone.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Mar 23 12:29:57 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: "First" key system? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980323102957.00e428a0@mail.jps.net> Sam Ismail typed out... >I have an AT&T Horizon phone system (circa late 70s) which is significant >in the history of telephone systems as it was the first "key" system. It Sam, speaking as an ex-telco person, I can say with confidence that the Horizon was far from being the first "key" system. That honor goes to the original electromechanical 1A system, which was introduced in the late 50's/early 60's. During the early-to-mid 60's, the 1A1 was introduced. It had several improvements over the 1A, mainly in reduced size, weight, and complexity. In the later 60's, the venerable 1A2 key system components were introduced. They endured well into the early 90's, and are still in use in various incarnations to this day (I have a 1A2 system here in the house). The Horizon system fits neatly into the category of 'hybrid' systems. It could, dependent on programming, become either an electronic key system or a small PABX, incorporating the best features of both. Thus endeth key system history 101. We now return to normal topical stuff. ;-) BTW, if you ever want to look for a good home for that Horizon... ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 23 12:35:59 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:56 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT References: <199803231814.NAA10151@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <3516AB8F.B2D3FDF4@bbtel.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Nice machine. :) All you need is either: > 4.5V or 6V external battery and that is either alki or lithium > battery. The actual operating cmos stand by voltage is appox 3v cut > down by series of diodes network. A 4.5v will work but on many machines the real time clock will lag behind...6v or 6.8 is always the best. JDR, Jameco, Battery-Biz (http://www.battery-biz.com) and many others carry them as a norm and are fairly inexpensive for the work they do the period they last. The only other alternative is to leave the machine on and pray there's no outage. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 23 12:59:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: 'SIMPLE' (was:Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.../old basics) Message-ID: <199803231859.AA01978@world.std.com> <> :Simple yes, useful? <>there have been a few tiny languages built over the years. there was <>SIMPLE (and can someone describle it here please?) I just dug out one I have that is in the same frams. BASEX, it falls between basic and asm. Fast, small, integer. Allison From billm at teleport.com Mon Mar 23 13:02:45 1998 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Tuning 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980323101334.0089aeb0@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 23, 98 10:13:34 am Message-ID: <199803231902.LAA02210@user2.teleport.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 143 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/02a9e9b1/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 23 13:05:33 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I don't know much about Kaypros, but is it possible that one of the sets of > > drives is 40-track and the other is 80-track? > > I don't know enough about Kaypros myself to answer this one. > > > Or that one set is single-sided and the other is double-sided? > > Both machines have single-sided drives. And the boot disk I'm using is > definitely single-sided, because I duplicated it using TeleDisk with side > 0 only, and the copy boots up and runs WordStar just fine. > > > When you start up the machine and it tries to boot, does a light come on, > > on the disk drive (which would indicate that the drive is being accessed)? > > Yes. The light for drive A comes on, and the motors for both drives come > on. > > I get the same response out of the machine whether I use the Kaypro boot > disk or an MS-DOS disk. But it is paying enough attention that it > immediately tells me "I cannot read your diskette" when I insert a > cleaning disk. :) [which makes cleaning a bit difficult] > > Also, just for the hell of it (and it's probably a Bad Thing(tm)) I nudged > the head forward when the machine was off, to see if it would move when > power was applied. And it did move back to its usual position. No, that is not a problem. > > > Anyway, the only other thing I could try is to make drive B in the 2 think > > > that it's drive A, to see if I can boot from there. Does anyone know how > > > these drives decide which one's A and which one is B? And can I switch > > > their identities without removing the drives from the metal housing? I > > > don't have the proper screwdriver to remove the drives. > > > > Usually there's a set of jumpers, or sometimes a small DIL switch pack, which > > select one of four disk addresses. They may be labelled DS0, DS1, DS2, DS3 or > > perhaps D1, D2, D3, D4. D0=A and D1=B. > > I'm afraid it's not that easy. I did pull out the flashlight and take > some good close looks inside the drives tonight, though, and I think I > know how it determines the drive number now. > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > BLUE 16-pin chip. The BLUE chip is a terminating resistor array and should be installed in the last drive on the ribbon cable - the B drive. Leave it there. It is possible that the 14pin socket is the drive selector. If so, it should not be completely empty. There might be a wire jumper or two inserted, but what I would expect you to find is a 'chip(?)' that looks something like this: ________________________ | | | \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ | | /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ | |______________________| New and unused, the points that I have shown would join to make a pin to pin connection. One uses a small screwdriver or Xacto knife or such to cut through and open the connection. For drive selection, only one or two be making a connection. > Just in case it was simply a matter of a missing part in drive A of the > Kaypro 2, I inspected the Kaypro II's drives, and they were identical. > There's a blue 16-pin chip sitting in the socket of drive B, and not in > drive A. That along with the "2F" labelling seems to be pretty clear. > > Now the problem is swapping that "chip" from one drive to the other. I > don't think I should even make the attempt without first getting the > drives out of the machine. Which means I need an appropriately-sized > 6-sided screwdriver. :/ What you need is what is called an Allen Wrench. They come in all shapes and sizes. Your friendly local hardware store or electronic shop should be delighted to sell you one or a set. - don > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 23 13:10:53 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Tuning 8" floppies In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980323101334.0089aeb0@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, David Wollmann wrote: > I have a MicroTech ReformaTTer unit with two 8" NEC floppies attached to a > PC with the MicroTech FDC. Both drives seemed to be in need of a tune-up > (head alignment, in particular) when I installed the unit, and now (this is > four yrs. later) I can only read diskettes with one drive, the other just > gives me "sector not found" errors. > > Is it practical for me (me = board swapper) to try to align the heads on > these drives manually by trial and error? Is there still a source for the > disk required to do it the right way? I have access to a scope if I need one. Contact: Accurite Technologies, Inc. 231 Charcot Avenue San Jose CA 95131-1107 408-433-1980 voice 408-433-1716 fax - don > -- > David Wollmann > dwollmann@ibmhelp.com > > > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 23 13:34:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: KAYPRO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Charles, I have taken the liberty of posting my reply to the classic computer mailing list as one of the readers may be interested. Good luck! - don ==================== On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Charles Almind wrote: > Dear Don, > I am trying to sell a Kaypro 1 '84 with lots of software, the Z-system, > 20 Meg HD, 1200 Baud modem and a free Epson > PX-8 laptop thrown in for good measure. Do you know anyone interested? > I paid $200 for it and would like > to get that if at all possible. Can you help me out? > Thanks > Charlie Almind > calmind@algorithms.com > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Mar 22 09:34:44 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <010601bd55da$9c1475e0$14ac31cf@jack.simconv.com> Message-ID: <199803232035.PAA01407@smtp.interlog.com> On 22 Mar 98 at 13:36, Jack Peacock wrote: > >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage > everyone who > >hasn't seen it already to see it. > > > >I ask this question when seeing any technology-based movie; > >how much of the technology is actually possible? Who was > Professor > >Falken in the movie based upon? Can a JOSHUA be built? > > Look for another movie sometime, "Dr. Strangelove". The crazed > nuclear scientist character in most all movies is based on Dr. > Edward Teller, father of the US H-bomb (Sakharov produced the > soviet H-bomb at the same time) and an influential advisor to > Eisenhower. Teller is also the guy who convinced Reagan to go > ahead with the "Star Wars" missle defense program (and if you > think that "Star Wars" was a stupid idea that was cancelled, > guess again, it is alive and well, just goes by other names > these days). One of those names is HARP(High Altitude Research Project) based on secret papers seized by the government when Tesla died. Scary stuff that would allow the US to dispupt communication transmission and also selectively bombard problematic regions with ELF which is known to cause problems with cognitive processes. Its facilities are in Alaska and is probably operational. > As for the rest of the movie, it was pure Hollywood. Secure > facilities don't have unsecured phone line, and especially no > incoming phone lines. BTW, the kid's computer was an IMSAI > S-100, and the graphics (if I recall correctly) were generated > by Godbout S-100 systems. > Jack Peacock > > > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 23 16:30:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980323163042.46a7a34e@intellistar.net> At 05:18 AM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: >> >> > Will the 82143A (the one I have) plug into an HP-75? Will it work with >> > anything else? What kind of battery does it take? Power connector? >> > Pinout of the 12-pin connector? >> >> I've got one someplace that I haven't used for years. I used it either >> with the HP-75D I used to have, or the HP-41C I still have. The connector >> is HP-IL, I think. You should be able to use it with just about any HP >> that can talk HP-IL, and you can even find HP-IB (GPIB) to HP-IL >> converters that might let you talk to it from machines with GPIB >> interfaces. > >Thanks for the info! I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting an HP >machine in real life, but when I do I'll look for the appropriate >connector. :) Nope, it's not HP-IL, the only connector that will fit the plug is in the top of a HP-41. The HP-IL has two connectors, each has two pins and is trapazodial shaped. One connector is male and the other female. There are^H^H^H were jumpers cables made to fit them. You have to connect the HP-IL stuff in a complete loop back to the controller, that's why EVERY HP-IL device has two connectors. > >BTW, would you happen to know if the batteries for this beastie are still >available? It looks like it takes a big boxy battery (about 3.5"x2"x1"?) >with both contacts on one face. Nope, they're out of production but I sell rebuilt ones. There are also other places that sell rebuilt ones. > >And the power connector on the back is fairly unusual, too. Yes, but the 82059 charger is fairly common. > >There's a piece of metal on the left hand side, at the back, that swivels >out of the body of the printer. It that for attaching the printer to the >machine that's using it? No, it's for a security cable to lock the printer down. There was no way to lock the 41 down. I know, I had two of them stolen. :-( > >What's the three-position "mode" switch for? It has labels "MAN", >"TRACE", and "NORM". In the MAN(ual) position the printer only printed when it recieved a print command. In the TRACE psition, it printed every program line and the values in the stack. In the NORM(al) position, it printed when it received a print command and it also printed when it received a display command. Several other commands would also make it print in the normal position. One of the intereesting features of the printer was that when you were writing programs on the 41 and the printer was connected and you wanted to add a comand to advance the paper or to print the X-register, you could just press that key on the printer and the command would be inserted into the program! That shows that this printer was not just a dumb output device but actually part of the 41 system. Joe > >Thanks again! > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 23 16:38:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: HP 82143A Peripheral Printer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980321184533.41e74d9c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980323163801.30474246@intellistar.net> At 05:35 AM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Doug, >> >> Your printer is made to work with the HP 41 calculator. The "plug" will >> only fit the HP 41. > >Oh. How lame. :/ Unless the HP 41 is cool in its own rite. :) It's VERY cool! You wouldn't believe the things you can do with it. If you ever have a chance to get one, GRAB IT! > >> It uses a HP 82033 battery pack. That's the same >> battery that's used in the 82162 printer, HP 97 calculator and many other >> HP products. That battery has 4 sub-C NiCad cells in it. > >OK thanks. > >And thanks for the other info that I snipped. > >It looks like this printer will sit on the shelf for a while and collect >dust. Well, you could sent it to me. I have at least 20 HP 41s! > But it's darn cute! :) You should see the tape drive! It's the same size and style and it's not the usual audio tape kludge. It actually has high speed fast foward and reverse and has a directory like a disk drive so the system knows where to find each file instead of having to seach the entire tape like most old tape systems. It can find and load a file in less than 30 seconds. Joe > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 23 16:03:40 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed Message-ID: <199803232203.AA21220@world.std.com> I have a WD93028A disk I know the geometry but the interface is apparently IDE. It's currently attached to a 8bit ISA card (also from WDC) and I'm curious about it. What I need to know is what flavor of IDE it is (it may be 8bit) and its pinouts. Allison From Galiber at worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 23 12:08:33 1998 From: Galiber at worldnet.att.net (Andre Galiber Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <19980323220927.AAA18430@default> I am looking for a plastic model computer made in the early seventies. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Mon Mar 23 16:20:49 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Hey, just a minute (Re: "First" key system?) Message-ID: <199803232220.XAA24349@mbox.queen.it> At 10:29 23/03/98 -0800, Bruce wrote: > Sam, speaking as an ex-telco person, I can say with confidence that the >Horizon was far from being the first "key" system. That honor goes to the >original electromechanical 1A system, which was introduced in the late >50's/early 60's. > Thus endeth key system history 101. We now return to normal topical stuff. Hey, hold on a minute: How many people are in this list also collecting CLASSIC TELEPHONY??? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From eric at fudge.uchicago.edu Mon Mar 23 16:32:51 1998 From: eric at fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Silicon Graphics Power Series machines available (Chicago) Message-ID: <199803232232.QAA26726@fudge.uchicago.edu> My department is getting ready to scrap two Silicon Graphics Power Series computers. They are both quite dead (parts from the one were used to keep the other going until there were no more reliable CPU boards left) and have been stripped of some parts, but it may be possible to bring them back to life by some magic, or at least to get some use out of the 19" racks and power supplies. If you have any interest in these, please let me know as soon as possible before they are thrown away. They are large and heavy and you will have to pick them up from the campus of the University of Chicago. Eric From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Mar 23 16:38:35 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401EC6BF4@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> According to my ancient HD reference textfile, there's a 93028-A and -AD. The -AD is an IDE drive and the -A is an ST506 RLL drive. Specs are identical, 19.86 MB, 69ms, 3.5" HH, 2/782/26 geometry. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Monday, March 23, 1998 2:04 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: drive info needed > > I have a WD93028A disk I know the geometry but the interface is > apparently IDE. It's currently attached to a 8bit ISA card (also from > WDC) and I'm curious about it. > > What I need to know is what flavor of IDE it is (it may be 8bit) > and its pinouts. > > > Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Mar 23 17:01:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: System/34 again Message-ID: <19980323230105.20879.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, I moved the System into a room where there is light and power. There are no 220V plugs, though. So, I have 2 choices: a)Step-up transformer - how much would 110-220 1700 watts min. cost? b)Using a bunch of PC power supplies to power the DC components. My first problem is how I trick a PC/AT power supply to stay on when it's not hooked up to anything. Do I need to short something? Next is the problem of pinouts on the 34. There is ground and +5v labelled clearly. THere is also a circuit board with lots of screw terminals. Could someone tell me the voltages on those (it's a board right below the CE panel and a bit on the right)? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 23 12:23:57 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401EC6BF4@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199803232316.SAA28037@mail.cgocable.net> > According to my ancient HD reference textfile, there's a 93028-A and -AD. > The -AD is an IDE drive and the -A is an ST506 RLL drive. Specs are > identical, 19.86 MB, 69ms, 3.5" HH, 2/782/26 geometry. Guys, I was referring to: http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/ This says: Same physical specs: 782/2/27 - bit faster transfer. For -A you could try 614/4/17 - more compatiable with old fixed bios. -A is ATA 1:1 -AD is oddball drive ATA with slower 3:1 -X is XTA (aka 8 bit IDE interface with one side all grounded except for one pin) This might looks like that hd with swapped logic board. So, there is no ST-506 interface either MFM or RLL unless otherwise. That is only 3 types of this same 93028 model and based on 40 pin IDE interface. Unless this HD pack and logic board were built from junk drives. That have happened before and logic boards and packs fail very frequently. Oh, Be careful of that orange cable on that front end. I have broke that one often. When I bought first 386dx 25 when I was offered 40mb WD 93044A and I asked for ST1102A instead because I do not want that "tandon" hd (hd breaker) and that served me very well. :) Jason D. > > Kai > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: allisonp@world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > > Sent: Monday, March 23, 1998 2:04 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: drive info needed > > > > I have a WD93028A disk I know the geometry but the interface is > > apparently IDE. It's currently attached to a 8bit ISA card (also from > > WDC) and I'm curious about it. > > > > What I need to know is what flavor of IDE it is (it may be 8bit) > > and its pinouts. > > > > > > Allison > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 23 17:57:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: System/34 again References: <19980323230105.20879.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3516F6ED.C287BF0E@bbtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > OK, I moved the System into a room where there is light and power. > There are no 220V plugs, though. So, I have 2 choices: > a)Step-up transformer - how much would 110-220 1700 watts min. cost? > b)Using a bunch of PC power supplies to power the DC components. > My first problem is how I trick a PC/AT power supply to stay on when > it's not hooked up to anything. Do I need to short something? > > Next is the problem of pinouts on the 34. There is ground and +5v > labelled clearly. THere is also a circuit board with lots of screw > terminals. Could someone tell me the voltages on those (it's a board > right below the CE panel and a bit on the right)? When I test PC power supplies I usually hook up a floppy drive or old hard drive to make it stay on, but you should be able to hook up a 12v car bulb to the neg and 12 pos lines of the out put and do the same thing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 23 18:05:00 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed References: <199803232203.AA21220@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3516F8AC.F157D48C@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > I have a WD93028A disk I know the geometry but the interface is > apparently IDE. It's currently attached to a 8bit ISA card (also from > WDC) and I'm curious about it. > > What I need to know is what flavor of IDE it is (it may be 8bit) > and its pinouts. It's an IDE AT drive, 21mb, 3.5" HH, 782cyl, 2 hd, 27 sectors per track, 783 LZ, 70ms access, no WPC/RWC. By the landing zone being listed it's old enough that it probably needs to be parked by software. By pinouts do you mean the 40 pins that the cable attaches to the interface card? My guess is that the interface is an ST05X or ST11. Are you using it in a stock PC/compat or are you going to modify it to use in another machine? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 23 18:07:28 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed In-Reply-To: <199803232203.AA21220@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > I have a WD93028A disk I know the geometry but the interface is > apparently IDE. It's currently attached to a 8bit ISA card (also from > WDC) and I'm curious about it. > > What I need to know is what flavor of IDE it is (it may be 8bit) > and its pinouts. Allison, my Pocket PCRef confirms what another gouge told me that both of the A suffix drives are 16 bit IDE while there is/was also an X which was an 8 bit IDE. The D suffix seems to have introduced translation capability. The drive that you have - unless someone has swapped logic cards - cannot be expected to work with the 8 bit card. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 23 18:40:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed References: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5401EC6BF4@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <35170115.E1C501F0@bbtel.com> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > According to my ancient HD reference textfile, there's a 93028-A and -AD. > The -AD is an IDE drive and the -A is an ST506 RLL drive. Specs are > identical, 19.86 MB, 69ms, 3.5" HH, 2/782/26 geometry. Really ancient I guess, and possibly incorrect. They're 21 mb, all IDE 40 pin interface. The -A is a faster IDE AT, the -AD is a 3:1 (slower) IDE AT and the -X is an IDE XT. The access time is 70 ms for all three. The heads are 2 and the cylinders 782 (as above) but the sectors per track are 27, not 26 (typo??). The landing zone is 783 (not an auto parker/auto locker) and it's a 3.5" HH case. There is NO translation given for the drive specs so the 782/2/27 is what should be used. Since it's an IDE there should NOT be a low level format performed on the drive. The reference for TheRef that was given is a great reference but these specs came from the most recent Pocket PCRef by Sequoia Publishing. I've always found these to be extremely accurate. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Mar 23 13:45:59 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed In-Reply-To: <35170115.E1C501F0@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199803240039.TAA21278@mail.cgocable.net> > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: SNip! > and the cylinders 782 (as above) but the sectors per track are 27, not 26 > (typo??). The landing zone is 783 (not an auto parker/auto locker) and it's a > 3.5" HH case. There is NO translation given for the drive specs so the > 782/2/27 is what should be used. Since it's an IDE there should NOT be a low > level format performed on the drive. Oh no. They can take LLF. I have done that many time when I did rebuilding these as fun experiments! This is real wonder that Nidec motors was balanced very well that it just hum along with very soft vibrations. Jason > The reference for TheRef that was given is a great reference but these specs > came from the most recent Pocket PCRef by Sequoia Publishing. I've always > found these to be extremely accurate. What's this book costs? Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 23 13:13:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 23, 98 05:18:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2522 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/7bff71fb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 23 13:36:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: GPIB + disk drives In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980323121854.3a87cf94@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 23, 98 12:18:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3329 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/4c224e90/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 23 16:08:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Mar 23, 98 09:57:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/db98b34c/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Mar 23 18:57:33 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: More on setting-up Sun3 from tape Message-ID: <004801bd56bf$efd68e80$b43cfea9@office1> Well, I resolved the tape drive access problem on my Sun3 workstation. Although no other device on the SCSI chain is terminated, the Sun3 does not like the DD50 passive terminator that I have on the end of the chain; it will only access the drives on the chain without it. Anyway, I can now load the tape boot image and start the mini-kernel. Really, the question that I have today is related to the "edlabel" partitioning program. Although the following results from using edlabel, the question is more about disk partitioning in Unix. The drive is a 330mb SCSI hard drive with the following geometry: 512 bytes/sect, 32 sect/trk, 15 trk/cyl, 1254 cyl (as reported; maybe should be 1408 cyls?). Running edlabel reports the following: start c/t/s blks c/t/s type a(root) 0 0/0/0 29297 61/00/17 4.2BSD /* 15mb boot b(swap) 0 0/0/0 0 0/0/0 swap /* swap (would like this to be ~10mb) c(disk) 0 0/0/0 601920 1254/0/0 unused /* disk d(user) 0 0/0/0 0 0/0/0 unused /* user I can create the root partition (and write it to the disk as shown above) with no problem, but I cannot create the swap and user partitions. I get the following error: "ioctl DIOCWDINFO: invalid argument". This is the first Unix drive that I'm setting-up in a non-automated fashion; can anyone give me the benefits of their experience in doing this?? Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 23 17:38:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: System/34 again In-Reply-To: <19980323230105.20879.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 23, 98 03:01:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980323/859e4de6/attachment.ksh From djenner at halcyon.com Mon Mar 23 19:53:06 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT References: Message-ID: <35171202.48FD8BBB@halcyon.com> This is a great idea, but after scrounging around, I got a replacement for about the cost of this workaround. I found one place that wanted $20 but finally found a Radio Shack that had one for a lot less. The battery still cost a lot more than the PC/AT! Thanks, Dave Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the > > CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the > > kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. > > > > I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store > > doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 > > volts. > > > > So, what's the acceptable voltage range, especially on the low end? And > > any good sources? > > Well, the voltage is not that critical. > > I also have a PC/AT (original type 2 system board), and the battery in > that was dead when I got it. It claimed to be a 6V battery. I managed to > find a place to buy a replacement, but it was \pounds 14.00 or something > equally crazy, so I made a replacement : > > 1N4148 > +------->|------+----------( +ve > | | > ----- / > --- \ 100k > ----- / > --- \ > ----- | > --- | > ----- | > --- | > | | > +---------------+----------( -ve > > The battery was 4 AA alkaline cells in a standard holder. The diode/resistor > were added since 4 fresh cells gave about 6.6V, and I was worried about > killing my RTC chip. In theory it'll cause the battery to run down a > little faster, but mine's lasted about 4 years so far. I cut the cable > off the old battery and used that to connect my kludge to the system board. > > And next time it fails, 4 AA cells are a lot cheaper and easier to find > than the official battery. > > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > -tony From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 23 20:07:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Apple ][ clones? In-Reply-To: <35171202.48FD8BBB@halcyon.com> Message-ID: I used to be a big Apple ][ fan, but I really can't recall any early Apple clones that match this description: "Apple II clone, either a peach or an Apricot, looks like an Apple II, but has extended keyboard, also has upper and lower case, shift keys work on all characters, not just on a few like Apple II. Cover is White Plastic, condition of cover and keyboard good. No label on cover. No identification on Motherboard." Any takers? -- Doug From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Mar 23 20:15:18 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: More on setting-up Sun3 from tape In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini"'s message of Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:57:33 -0500 References: <004801bd56bf$efd68e80$b43cfea9@office1> Message-ID: <199803240215.SAA14160@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > Well, I resolved the tape drive access problem on my Sun3 workstation. > Although no other device on the SCSI chain is terminated, the Sun3 does not > like the DD50 passive terminator that I have on the end of the chain; it > will only access the drives on the chain without it. This may be one of those wacky things that crops up w/r/t funny things Sun does with the termination-power line on the bus, or a tape drive that terminates the bus itself (or on the MT02 card if that's how the tape drive is hooked up). > start c/t/s blks c/t/s > type > a(root) 0 0/0/0 29297 61/00/17 4.2BSD /* 15mb > boot > b(swap) 0 0/0/0 0 0/0/0 swap /* > swap (would like this to be ~10mb) > c(disk) 0 0/0/0 601920 1254/0/0 unused /* disk > d(user) 0 0/0/0 0 0/0/0 unused > /* user > I can create the root partition (and write it to the disk as shown > above) with no problem, but I cannot create the swap and user partitions. I > get the following error: "ioctl DIOCWDINFO: invalid argument". I'm not sure what edlabel is, but if you are running SunOS, there should be a program called format that has a "partition" command that lets you set the individual partitions. Once you get into partition mode, you type the letter of the partition you want to set, and it prompts you for a start and a length. Lather, rinse, repeat until done. Then you need to write the disk label to the disk. Convention is that the c partition is set to cover the whole disk. You don't actually newfs or mount it, it's just there for things to look at. (Does anything actually depend on this any more? I don't know.) So I'm guessing you want to set partition b to start at 29297 and be length 20480 (for 10MB, are you sure that is enough), and partition d to start at (29297+20480=) 49777 and be length (601920-49777=) 552143. Or am I missing something here? -Frank McConnell From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Mon Mar 23 20:23:17 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: References: <3516A298.3E049E98@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980323202317.0089d210@pop3.webzone.net> At 10:08 PM 3/23/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I picked up an original PC/AT that has a dead lithium battery for the >> CMOS bios parameter storage. The battery says it's 6.8 volts. It's the >> kind that is a 1/2x1x2 inch pack with a six-inch lead. >> >> I've tried several places to find a replacement, but either a store >> doesn't have it, or, if they have one, the voltage is not exactly 6.8 >> volts. >> >> So, what's the acceptable voltage range, especially on the low end? And >> any good sources? > >Well, the voltage is not that critical. > >I also have a PC/AT (original type 2 system board), and the battery in >that was dead when I got it. It claimed to be a 6V battery. I managed to >find a place to buy a replacement, but it was \pounds 14.00 or something >equally crazy, so I made a replacement : [snip diagram] >The battery was 4 AA alkaline cells in a standard holder. The diode/resistor >were added since 4 fresh cells gave about 6.6V, and I was worried about >killing my RTC chip. In theory it'll cause the battery to run down a >little faster, but mine's lasted about 4 years so far. I cut the cable >off the old battery and used that to connect my kludge to the system board. > >And next time it fails, 4 AA cells are a lot cheaper and easier to find >than the official battery. > >> >> Thanks, >> Dave >> > >-tony FWIW, we've seen more than our share of 5170s in our time, and several with CMOS supplies that consisted of a battery pack with 4 AAs. I've never checked to see if this was an original P/N or FRU, but they all seemed to work fine. IIRC, we've seen healthy ATs with 7.0V batteries, so the plain old AA four-pack should probably work fine. If I can dig out my AT Tech Ref I'll look up the spec and post it. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 23 20:34:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: System/34 again Message-ID: <199803240234.AA04465@world.std.com> References: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 19, 98 11:53:18 pm Message-ID: Hi! I have a question re. the Commodore 64c - what was the number of the SID chip? I assuem that the C64c had one, but the most likely chip was numbered 8580R5, whereas I was expecting a 6581 or 6582. Thanks heaps, Adam. ----------- Email: adam@merlin.net.au Web Site: http://www.on.net/clients/bears/ Furry Code: FMa3m A- C** D H+ M++++ P+++ R+ T++ W* Z Sm# RLCT/C a+ cm+++ d++ c++ f h++++ iw++ p++ sm** From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Mar 23 21:03:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed Message-ID: <199803240303.AA25419@world.std.com> capability. The drive that you have - unless someone has swapped logic Just picked up a Mac II for $15, looks like 5MB of RAM or so, 68020 & 68881 FPU, two 800k floppies, an 80MB hard drive with three partitions, and an ethernet card. I swapped out the old Mac II video card since it didn't work with my monitor(64k Mac II video cards from Apple don't do very much) and put my Radius Pivot monitor/card in it, and it works OK now. It's running System 6, so I'll have to upgrade to at least 7.0(i think I have it on 800k around here somewhere) or maybe network it and install 7.1... Also got two "black boxes" for free, one is an automatic RS-232 switcher, and the other appears to be a RAM buffer for RS-232. More info after I figure out exactly what they are... Tonight is going to be busy(upgrading with spare parts I have, looking for info, etc...)! -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 23 23:49:53 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed In-Reply-To: <199803240303.AA25419@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > capability. The drive that you have - unless someone has swapped logic > > Whatevery you do wisper that... it's running with the 8bit ide adaptor > in my xt. Remarkable! Which controller card? WDXT140 or 150? > There is no reson to suspect the card was ever swapped. > > Allison > > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Mar 23 23:56:33 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Superbrain schematics Message-ID: <003701bd56e9$9a4f5120$29f438cb@nostromo> In-hand - Intertech Data Systems Superbrain / Superbrain II product schematics package. April, 1982. "This schematic package contains all technical documentation required to effect competent repair on the Intertec system if service should ever be required". Anybody in need of this info now knows who to ask. Cheers A From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 24 00:23:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed References: <199803240303.AA25419@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3517517C.9981809E@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > capability. The drive that you have - unless someone has swapped logic > > Whatevery you do wisper that... it's running with the 8bit ide adaptor > in my xt. > > There is no reson to suspect the card was ever swapped. Some 8 bit controllers were made to use AT drives. Most of us got used to XT type drives in XT machines. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Mar 24 01:12:38 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Mac II problem Message-ID: Here's the message I just sent to ClassicMacs mailing list, I'm too lazy to type it all again ;-) ============================= Just picked up a Mac II 5/80/two 800k FD's for $15(including a datatronics keyboard and an Apple mouse), with an ethernet card that everyone seemedd to think was a second video card... They said whenever they plugged a monitor into it, the computer shutdown. I hope it hasn't been destroyed... Anyways, it came with System 6.0.5, Word 4.0 and Illustrator 88(and tons of documents for both programs), all of which have already been deleted. Problem is that I'm having trouble getting System 7.0 to run. At first I couldn't get it to boot at all from the disk tools disk, then I finally installed it onto one of the three partitions and deleted the Sys6 system folder. Then it still woudn't boot. I took out the ethernet card and my PC Drive card(which I think may be bad). Now it tries two or three times minimum to boot from the hard drive, and usually refuses to boot from the floppy(although that may be fixed now, I'm not sure). The Apple HD SC Setup on the Disk Tools disk did not see the disk, so I went back to my PowerMac which had a copy of a hacked HD SC Setup I had downloaded. Back to the II, where the disk refused to boot. OK, I finally got it to boot from the HD, then I opened the floppy, and then the system folder. Finally the normal System Folder icon is back and it boots again. I launch the hacked HD SC Setup and it sees a disk at SCSI ID 6(I haven't changed that yet, I need to take the HD out and find the info on it), but it can't reformat. It says it can't prepare the disk for initialization, no particular reason is given... Current config right now is 5/80 with the two 800k drives, and the Radius Pivot interface. Any ideas? I'm stumped. ============================= -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From MANNYMAN at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 24 06:17:15 1998 From: MANNYMAN at ix.netcom.com (MANNYMAN@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: SONY SMC70 CP/M MICRO COMPUTER Message-ID: <3517A44B.7C7F@ix.netcom.com> I have two SMC70'S I would like to sell. Both work great. One is a bare-bones model, but the other has a Genlocker, NTSC Superimposer(SMI-7074), and Cache Disk Unit(SMI-7050). The software includes CP/M, Sony Basic, Sony Graphic Editor, Sony Video Titler, Q-Manager, Wordstar and other disks. I also have a program that will convert CP/M AND PC files. I have manuals for Sony Disk Basic, CP/M, Sony Graphics Editor, and Wordstar. I also have a copy of Commodore CP/M 128 User's Guide. If You are interested, please call me at (201)246-0998. Sincerely, Manuel Neno From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 24 08:51:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: What's an RA90? Message-ID: <13342243310.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> What's an RA90? Can I use one to replace a RA81? Are they removeable? Heavy? Bizarre? How big? The point is, this RA81 is dying and I have a chance to get a RA90. I haven't even seen it yet. Is this worth it? ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 24 09:48:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Russian PDP-11 info source Message-ID: In case anyone is interested I found an odd source of a little info on a Russian PDP-11 the BK0010. The February issue (107) of Amiga Format, which should currently be available in the US, has a section on Emulators, and they talk about the BK0010. In my area both Barnes and Nobles, and Borders books carry the magazine, with Borders carrying the version with CD coverdisks for ~$15, and B&N carrying the Floppy coverdisk version for ~$10.50. The emulator wouldn't be on the floppies, but it MIGHT be on the CD, I don't know, I've not had time to look at my CD. There is an emulator available, but the minimum system requirements are a 68020 WorkBench 2, and 1Mb RAM. A 40Mhz 68030 is recommended to get full speed, and apparently a 68060 is to fast. In all it's only about 8 paragraphs, but it might be of interest to some of the PDP-11 enthusiasts on the list. I've no idea if the emulator is available for any other machines, but it might run in the Amiga emulator if you have a fast enough machine to run that on. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From brian at jhu.edu Tue Mar 24 09:45:51 1998 From: brian at jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: What's an RA90? In-Reply-To: <13342243310.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980324104551.02ea6a30@musicbox.mse.jhu.edu> At 06:51 AM 3/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >What's an RA90? Can I use one to replace a RA81? >Are they removeable? Heavy? Bizarre? How big? >The point is, this RA81 is dying and I have a chance to get a RA90. >I haven't even seen it yet. Is this worth it? It's a 1.2 gig SDI drive, so it should replace your RA81 nicely. The HDA looks to be about 8", and sits vertically in a box with the logic board. Then a blower clips on the front of the whole thing. Usually, you see two of them side by side on a shelf that takes up the same amount of space as an RA81/82. If you need the power numbers, I can get them for you, but I can assure you it'll draw less than your RA81. Definitely worth it. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center Johns Hopkins University brian@jhu.edu From circuitsurgeon at fwi.com Tue Mar 24 09:43:53 1998 From: circuitsurgeon at fwi.com (Gil Jasmin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Mac II problem References: Message-ID: <3517D4B9.1729@fwi.com> John Rollins wrote: > > Here's the message I just sent to ClassicMacs mailing list, I'm too lazy to > type it all again ;-) > > ============================= > Just picked up a Mac II 5/80/two 800k FD's for $15(including a datatronics > keyboard and an Apple mouse), with an ethernet card that everyone seemedd > to think was a second video card... They said whenever they plugged a > monitor into it, the computer shutdown. I hope it hasn't been destroyed... > Anyways, it came with System 6.0.5, Word 4.0 and Illustrator 88(and tons of > documents for both programs), all of which have already been deleted. > Problem is that I'm having trouble getting System 7.0 to run. At first I > couldn't get it to boot at all from the disk tools disk, then I finally > installed it onto one of the three partitions and deleted the Sys6 system > folder. Then it still woudn't boot. I took out the ethernet card and my PC > Drive card(which I think may be bad). Now it tries two or three times > minimum to boot from the hard drive, and usually refuses to boot from the > floppy(although that may be fixed now, I'm not sure). The Apple HD SC Setup > on the Disk Tools disk did not see the disk, so I went back to my PowerMac > which had a copy of a hacked HD SC Setup I had downloaded. Back to the II, > where the disk refused to boot. OK, I finally got it to boot from the HD, > then I opened the floppy, and then the system folder. Finally the normal > System Folder icon is back and it boots again. I launch the hacked HD SC > Setup and it sees a disk at SCSI ID 6(I haven't changed that yet, I need to > take the HD out and find the info on it), but it can't reformat. It says it > can't prepare the disk for initialization, no particular reason is given... > Current config right now is 5/80 with the two 800k drives, and the Radius > Pivot interface. Any ideas? I'm stumped. > ============================= > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | > -------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, I have had this problem, use the ontrack disk manager, fixes this problem quick. -- Live Long and Prosper Gil Jasmin http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon/neonking.html From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 24 09:58:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980323182338.36a7ddb4@ricochet.net> At 06:50 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >I just saw Wargames; what an excellent movie! I encourage >Is it just me or have these movies been out and already been tossed in >the bargain rental area at the video stores? You guys need to get out Um, I believe there are folks on this list who weren't *born* when that movie came out. Which only goes to show that the spirit of curiosity and challenge that motivated the rest of us to stay up all night writing code (or playing Zork) is not dead. What's even better is that the younger members of this list have combined that spirit with a sense of history; they will not be reinventing the wheel, but will be building on it. If you don't know why screens were traditionally 80 columns wide, you don't know if it's okay to toss that idea aside should the technology allows it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 24 10:12:44 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Washington DC area classics? Message-ID: <003901bd573f$d1b38040$b162bcc1@hotze> Hi. I'm going to be going to Washington DC from early July to late July, and I wanted to know if anyone knew any specific places that I might be able to find classics while there. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Mar 24 05:43:47 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: drive info needed In-Reply-To: <199803240453.AA26733@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803241636.LAA07281@mail.cgocable.net> All right, guys, After conferring with Allison, we found out thus: > > > All the even pins on the drive are ground, it has the 42c22 chip. I > suspect 8bit (xt) IDE. If mueller is to be believed it's 8bit IDE. This is right, that 93028-A is original pack with ATA logic board but somehow was blown, (Commonly happens), so someone found a good XTA interface logic board from dud 93028-X hd and installed that to this good pack. I suggest you cross out that -A and scribble on a -X? I had so many logic boards of all kinds of Tandon make and WD make, packs were bad too and that shows how high failure rate was with these design. Worst design indeed. Even the same period of time an ST1102A had 150K MTBF compared to those drives with 30K. > > I have an accutrack isa-8(xt) adaptor for standard ATA IDE it has a > miniscribe 8051A hooked to it. (!!) I have Miniscribe 8051A too. Thermal problem, stays dead but spinning and making funny noise for few minutes then power cycle it, comes up fine. This is only oddball hd I know of that used moving magnet with the coil fixed to the hd case. Snip. > They exist. IDE drives plugged into XTs are no big thing and JAMCO or > JDR has a board for that. A friend has a PS2/30 (ISA bus) with a 420mb > WD drive via the accutrak adaptor. > > I designed an adaptor for my s100 crate to use the 16bit wide ATA ide > on the z80 (8bit data bus). doing that for XT is about the same task. I wish I could learn to make a simple adapter for both 16bit and 8 bit wide, using an ATA drive. So far, I was bit frustrated with some info I found on the net. Did you got good one I that I could understand how to design one? For starter, making a GOOD complete buffered type card with IORDY selectable ATA card for ISA bus? Far as I can understand, a choice of binary setup for first address 10 bits long selects the IDE address beyond that zip. Many cheapo cards have partial buffering which is bad for the IDE chipset. Is this assumption correct? > > I can use an 8bit IDE drive for a CPM system. Then use this that WD 93028-X for this CPM system? > > Allison Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 24 10:40:28 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Washington DC area classics? Message-ID: <1998Mar24.114015.1767.91053@smtp.itgonline.com> National Museum of American History, 'Information Age: People, Information and Technolgy' is a permanent exhibit. Curator of cumpeters is David K. Allison. Museum is located at 14th Street and Constitution Avenue on the Mall. Also, the Air and Space Museum, also located on the Mall has a curator of areospace computing but I don't know what is on display. The National Museum of American History is on the web @ www.si.edu/organiza/museums/nmah/ Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Washington DC area classics? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/24/98 11:23 AM Hi. I'm going to be going to Washington DC from early July to late July, and I wanted to know if anyone knew any specific places that I might be able to find classics while there. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar24.112302.1767.33662; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:23:03 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA28268; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:15 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA44194 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:03 -0800 Received: from sv10.batelco.com.bh (sv10.batelco.com.bh [193.188.97.227]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA24464 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:01 -0800 Received: from hotze ([193.188.98.88]) by sv10.batelco.com.bh (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-13092) with SMTP id AAA19413 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:13:04 +0300 Message-Id: <003901bd573f$d1b38040$b162bcc1@hotze> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:12:44 +0300 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Hotze" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Washington DC area classics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: "Classic Computer" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From engine at chac.org Tue Mar 24 10:40:28 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980324084028.00f82380@pop.batnet.com> Yesterday I did the Silicon Valley Elderhostel comp. hist. lecture, and in the Q&A afterwards, a woman from one of the gold rush ~ghost towns in the Sierra said that her school had been given two HP Vectra 486's, but with no OS's. HP has been forced to follow MS' ultimatum (who but MS could or would step on HP?) and can only supply her with Win95, which these boxes don't have the horsepower for, on CD, but.... no CD drives either. She badly needs HP Vectra OEM Windows 3.1(1) on 3.5" floppies, and HP's response to her is basically "We're only allowed to tell you that that never existed." Can anybody help with a copy? TVMIA -- __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 24 10:43:43 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:57 2005 Subject: Washington DC area classics? Message-ID: <004701bd5744$053fc5a0$b162bcc1@hotze> Thanks for the info. Also, can I ask wherey ou can *get* classics? Seeing as I'm going to being in Guyana for a couple'a years, I'll need something to do... Cheers, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Marty To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Washington DC area classics? > National Museum of American History, 'Information Age: People, > Information and Technolgy' is a permanent exhibit. Curator of > cumpeters is David K. Allison. Museum is located at 14th Street and > Constitution Avenue on the Mall. Also, the Air and Space Museum, also > located on the Mall has a curator of areospace computing but I don't > know what is on display. The National Museum of American History is on > the web @ www.si.edu/organiza/museums/nmah/ > > Marty Mintzell > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Washington DC area classics? >Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 3/24/98 11:23 AM > > > Hi. I'm going to be going to Washington DC from early July to late July, > and I wanted to know if anyone knew any specific places that I might be able > to find classics while there. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Mar24.112302.1767.33662; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:23:03 -0500 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id IAA28268; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:15 -0800 > Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id IAA44194 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 > 08:13:03 -0800 > Received: from sv10.batelco.com.bh (sv10.batelco.com.bh [193.188.97.227]) > by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id IAA24464 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:01 > > -0800 > Received: from hotze ([193.188.98.88]) by sv10.batelco.com.bh > (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-13092) with SMTP id AAA19413 > for ; > Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:13:04 +0300 > Message-Id: <003901bd573f$d1b38040$b162bcc1@hotze> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:12:44 +0300 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "Hotze" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Washington DC area classics? > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: "Classic Computer" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Mar 24 10:57:25 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help Message-ID: <005001bd5745$f4b4ee20$b162bcc1@hotze> Sorry, but this is just a thought... if HP could give Win 95 LICENCES, and you could find a 3.5" copy of Windows 95 (and the HP's have 8MB RAM), you could run Windows 95 fine. I'm running it on my DX/50 here. Hope that this helps, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 7:45 PM Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help >Yesterday I did the Silicon Valley Elderhostel comp. hist. lecture, and in >the Q&A afterwards, a woman from one of the gold rush ~ghost towns in the >Sierra said that her school had been given two HP Vectra 486's, but with no >OS's. HP has been forced to follow MS' ultimatum (who but MS could or >would step on HP?) and can only supply her with Win95, which these boxes >don't have the horsepower for, on CD, but.... no CD drives either. She >badly needs HP Vectra OEM Windows 3.1(1) on 3.5" floppies, and HP's >response to her is basically "We're only allowed to tell you that that >never existed." > >Can anybody help with a copy? TVMIA -- >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Mar 24 06:23:34 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help In-Reply-To: <005001bd5745$f4b4ee20$b162bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <199803241716.MAA17135@mail.cgocable.net> > Sorry, but this is just a thought... if HP could give Win 95 LICENCES, and > you could find a 3.5" copy of Windows 95 (and the HP's have 8MB RAM), you > could run Windows 95 fine. I'm running it on my DX/50 here. > Hope that this helps, Once again, this is foolish to try to run win95 on 8mb. I did and get Very SLOW performance even on 486sx 33 and beating trying to killing the hd and crashing is common. Hated that royally. Be kind and find a way to get win 3.11 WFW. These 3.x is best for older 386 and 486 all with 8mb~16mb, even for older pentium w/ 8mb and older notebooks. Really, win95sux really LIKES to run in more than 16mb~24mb~greater ram and POWERFUL CPU like dx4 series or better. From that gives you more reliablity and more crash-proofing. FWIW. Jason D. > > Tim D. Hotze > -----Original Message----- > From: Kip Crosby > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 7:45 PM > Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help > > > >Yesterday I did the Silicon Valley Elderhostel comp. hist. lecture, and in > >the Q&A afterwards, a woman from one of the gold rush ~ghost towns in the > >Sierra said that her school had been given two HP Vectra 486's, but with no > >OS's. HP has been forced to follow MS' ultimatum (who but MS could or > >would step on HP?) and can only supply her with Win95, which these boxes > >don't have the horsepower for, on CD, but.... no CD drives either. She > >badly needs HP Vectra OEM Windows 3.1(1) on 3.5" floppies, and HP's > >response to her is basically "We're only allowed to tell you that that > >never existed." > > > >Can anybody help with a copy? TVMIA -- > >__________________________________________ > >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > >Computer History Association of California > > > > > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 24 11:15:20 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980323182338.36a7ddb4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <13342269502.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Playing Zork...] Hey! That's on my VAX! I think I'll go play it later, I've never played it. Oh, and I have about 2meg free on the RD53 after installing NetBSD. So, with a little trimming here and there, I should have a uV2K portable running pretty nicely! ------- From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Mar 24 11:23:19 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Washington DC area classics? Message-ID: <1998Mar24.122126.1767.91073@smtp.itgonline.com> Sorry about the typo's on my earlier response. If you are in the DC area during early June, don't miss the Manassas (Virginia) ham fest hosted by the Ole Virginia Hams, you should find some classics there. Otherwise check the local flea markets, thrift shops, yard sales etc. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Washington DC area classics? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/24/98 11:57 AM Thanks for the info. Also, can I ask wherey ou can *get* classics? Seeing as I'm going to being in Guyana for a couple'a years, I'll need something to do... Cheers, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Marty To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Washington DC area classics? > National Museum of American History, 'Information Age: People, > Information and Technolgy' is a permanent exhibit. Curator of > cumpeters is David K. Allison. Museum is located at 14th Street and > Constitution Avenue on the Mall. Also, the Air and Space Museum, also > located on the Mall has a curator of areospace computing but I don't > know what is on display. The National Museum of American History is on > the web @ www.si.edu/organiza/museums/nmah/ > > Marty Mintzell > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Washington DC area classics? >Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 3/24/98 11:23 AM > > > Hi. I'm going to be going to Washington DC from early July to late July, > and I wanted to know if anyone knew any specific places that I might be able > to find classics while there. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Mar24.112302.1767.33662; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:23:03 -0500 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id IAA28268; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:15 -0800 > Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id IAA44194 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 > 08:13:03 -0800 > Received: from sv10.batelco.com.bh (sv10.batelco.com.bh [193.188.97.227]) > by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id IAA24464 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:13:01 > > -0800 > Received: from hotze ([193.188.98.88]) by sv10.batelco.com.bh > (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-13092) with SMTP id AAA19413 > for ; > Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:13:04 +0300 > Message-Id: <003901bd573f$d1b38040$b162bcc1@hotze> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:12:44 +0300 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "Hotze" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Washington DC area classics? > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: "Classic Computer" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar24.115727.1767.33674; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:57:28 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA01097; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:43:15 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA16926 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:43:09 -0800 Received: from sv10.batelco.com.bh (sv10.batelco.com.bh [193.188.97.227]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id IAA24070 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:43:06 -0800 Received: from hotze ([193.188.98.18]) by sv10.batelco.com.bh (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-13092) with SMTP id AAA24233 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:43:08 +0300 Message-Id: <004701bd5744$053fc5a0$b162bcc1@hotze> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:43:43 +0300 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Hotze" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Washington DC area classics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 24 11:19:21 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: RA90 Message-ID: <13342270232.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Oh, smaller is good! I assume it's lighter, too? (Is this something I can lift myself? Carrying that RA81 was a real pain in the a**!) ------- From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Mar 24 11:55:29 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: HP Win 3.1 -- off topic, but need help In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980324084028.00f82380@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980324115529.0080de30@pop3.webzone.net> At 08:40 AM 3/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >She >badly needs HP Vectra OEM Windows 3.1(1) on 3.5" floppies, and HP's >response to her is basically "We're only allowed to tell you that that >never existed." > >Can anybody help with a copy? TVMIA -- > Is there any reason the generic OEM Windows 3.x wouldn't work? There are plenty of copies of that floating around and I'm sure they could be had for cheap on the net--a quick DejaNews search shows a bunch of Win 3.x unregistered copies for sale for ~ $30 a piece. If specific drivers are required they can be found at: http://www.hp.com/cposupport/indexes1/vpc4.html Hope that helps. __________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Mar 24 12:37:09 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Mac II problem In-Reply-To: <3517D4B9.1729@fwi.com> References: Message-ID: >Hi, I have had this problem, use the ontrack disk manager, fixes this >problem quick. Too late! I already reformatted the drive with a copy of Silverlining I had on my(other) hard drive... And the only copy of Ontrack I have is for PC's, came with one of my free 8088's. Is Ontrack DM from Seagate? I haven't looked at my copy in a while, and I don't know where i put it. Well, the problem is fixed now, and System 7.0 is running. Now to upgrade the RAM... IIRC, the Mac II needs SIMMs with 8(or 9) chips, it doesn't like those two chip SIMMs I have laying around, and it like 100-120ns RAM anyways(most of my stuff is 80ns). Now to hunt for SIMMs that work... Do all Mac II SIMMs need to be the PAL type, or just the 4MB+ a mentioned on the LowEndMac web site? -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin call sign coming soon... | -------------------------------------------------------------- From archive at navix.net Tue Mar 24 17:06:07 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Commodore 128D for sale Message-ID: <35183C5E.EA92CE4E@navix.net> Greets: A lady contacted me recently with the following description of a pretty good Commodore system she has for sale. I'm not going to get it, so I thought I'd pass it on to you folks. Please reply directly to her at RosemaryConte@worldnet.att.net --the message is as follows: I have a Com 128D computer, detachable keybd; 1571 disc dr; MPS 1000 printer; Magnavox RGB Display 80 monitor. Compat w/ Com 64 software; cables, software, etc. I'd like to get $100 for it. -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From TOwad at aol.com Tue Mar 24 17:13:42 1998 From: TOwad at aol.com (T Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ clones? Message-ID: I'd recommend consulting Gaylord Hill . He specializes in Apple II clones. Sincerely, Tom Owad >I used to be a big Apple ][ fan, but I really can't recall any early Apple >clones that match this description: > >"Apple II clone, either a peach or an Apricot, looks like an Apple II, but >has extended keyboard, also has upper and lower case, shift keys work on >all characters, not just on a few like Apple II. Cover is White Plastic, >condition of cover and keyboard good. No label on cover. No identification >on Motherboard." From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 24 17:59:08 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: System/34 again Message-ID: <19980324235913.24627.qmail@hotmail.com> > >About 25-50 pounds in weight never mind cost. > > >Don't do it. First, switching powersupplies get real upset if the are not >loaded to some minimum point, they gernerally don't like running in >parallel and the other is power sequencing. What's power sequencing? > >Get and learn to use volmeters. There may be unsafe voltages or currents >at low voltages that can be dangerous. Also miswiring could toast the >machine fully and very completely. I have voltmeters, and know how to use them, but they aren't much use when there is no way to power the thing. > >Allison > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 24 18:01:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: System/34 again In-Reply-To: <19980324235913.24627.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13342343465.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Sys/34 and Voltmeters.] Well. My 34 has power, runs, and I think I can use a voltmeter. I've measured batteries and such with it. If told what to do, cahnces are good I can get the voltages you need/ ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 24 18:06:56 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <19980325000658.260.qmail@hotmail.com> >Which only goes to show that the spirit of curiosity and challenge that >motivated the rest of us to stay up all night writing code (or playing >Zork) is not dead. > >What's even better is that the younger members of this list have combined >that spirit with a sense of history; they will not be reinventing the >wheel, but will be building on it. > >If you don't know why screens were traditionally 80 columns wide, you don't >know if it's okay to toss that idea aside should the technology allows it. > Why ARE screens 80 Cols wide? >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 24 18:20:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen Message-ID: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Today was a good day at the thrift store- could you folks tell me fair prices for the following (as well as any requests) 2 Apple GS programs w/all docs and boxes. Anyone want? A Zenith eaZy PC, a 286 easily mistakable for a dumb terminal. It's cool but priced $30 A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use An ISA card claiming on its box to be a UPS - if it's still there, I will take it tomorrow ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 24 18:22:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: System/34 again Message-ID: <19980325002242.1425.qmail@hotmail.com> Open the panel below the CE Panel. A bit to your right is a vertical board w/lots of screw terminals. I need the voltages of the screw terminals when the system is running >[Sys/34 and Voltmeters.] >Well. My 34 has power, runs, and I think I can use a voltmeter. >I've measured batteries and such with it. If told what to do, cahnces are good >I can get the voltages you need/ >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 24 18:30:10 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: System/34 again In-Reply-To: <19980325002242.1425.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13342348660.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Sys/34] Looks... Oh you mean the one by the "DANGER 480V" stickers? :) ARE YOU NUTS!? Well, once I get the probe of my voltmeter fixed, I'll try it. Any idea where I can stick probes w/o crisping myself? ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 24 18:34:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: TI calculator display Message-ID: <19980325003419.11335.qmail@hotmail.com> A certain TI-85 (which I will try to fix, but is not mine) has a strange problem. The display does not display a strip of graphics. Everything else is fine, but about 20 rows just don't work. They DO work sometimes, but are then distorted. The LCD is connected to the board with a ridiculously long ribbon connector, folded several times, made out of thin plastic. Any ideas? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 24 11:26:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: SID chips In-Reply-To: from "Adam Jenkins" at Mar 23, 98 12:37:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 567 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980324/1a3cbe2b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 24 11:28:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <35171202.48FD8BBB@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Mar 23, 98 05:53:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980324/ae9ed451/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 24 17:41:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <19980325000658.260.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Mar 24, 98 04:06:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 118 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980324/c0fb26f1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 24 11:33:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: CMOS Battery for PC/AT In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980323202317.0089d210@pop3.webzone.net> from "David Wollmann" at Mar 23, 98 08:23:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980324/8343917d/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Mar 24 14:59:55 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen In-Reply-To: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199803250152.UAA01078@mail.cgocable.net> > A Zenith eaZy PC, a 286 easily mistakable for a dumb terminal. It's > cool but priced $30 Max, This is true but it's actually crippled closed system XT machine with non-standard serial ports, extra 128k in little metal box wart on back, HD is either miniscribe or WD but they're XT IDE and always 20mb. In fact I have one as gift from my former experience work years ago. CPU is V40 at 8mhz. Jason D. > A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use > An ISA card claiming on its box to be a UPS - if it's still there, I > will take it tomorrow > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Mar 24 20:08:47 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale Message-ID: <352666b7.246971766@hoser> Thought someone in the group might be interested. As usual, if you are discovered, I will deny any knowledge of your existence. >We have an OLD Data General One Laptop from 1983!!!! > >We would like to sell it! >It works well, has a modem, and an HP Think Jet Printer! > >No reasonable offer will be refused! > >------- >PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS: >Send all inquires to: mldat@the-pentagon.com > >Thank you! > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Mar 24 20:10:39 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: OS/2, Finally getting closer to what it's worth... Message-ID: <35276733.247095484@hoser> Anybody need a paperweight? If it's from someone named "Carp", it's got to be good... >FS: 630 Copies, shrink wrapped, OS/2 ver. 3.0 (Warp) Blue Spine. > >$20. ea. plus s/h & COD. This edition includes the Bonus Pack. > >Yours truly, >Quantalytics, Inc. > >Arthur J. Carp >516.295.3230 (phone & fax, auto-switched) >mailto:quant@dti.net >http://home.dti.net/quant/forsale/forsale.html > > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 24 20:17:34 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen In-Reply-To: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Today was a good day at the thrift store- could you folks tell me > fair prices for the following (as well as any requests) > 2 Apple GS programs w/all docs and boxes. Anyone want? Depends on what the programs are. $3-5 each? > A Zenith eaZy PC, a 286 easily mistakable for a dumb terminal. It's > cool but priced $30 I'd pass. > A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use The TI-99/4a uses a TI9900 CPU. Allison seems to know most about this. TI's are a dime a dozen. I'm used to paying anywhere from $1 - $3 for any I see in thrift stores. > An ISA card claiming on its box to be a UPS - if it's still there, I > will take it tomorrow Hmm, neat. I'd be interested to hear more about this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From wpe at interserv.com Tue Mar 24 20:34:06 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames References: Message-ID: <35186D1D.508CEBDF@interserv.com> In a couple of previous posts, I believe the DOD computer was referred to as "Joshua".. Do I have my movies mixed up, or, wasn't it actually WOPA? Sorry if this might be considered "off topic".. Will > > From spc at armigeron.com Tue Mar 24 20:30:43 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: <35186D1D.508CEBDF@interserv.com> from "will emerson" at Mar 24, 98 09:34:06 pm Message-ID: <199803250230.VAA20521@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great will emerson once stated: > > In a couple of previous posts, I believe the DOD computer was referred to as > "Joshua".. Do I have my movies mixed up, or, wasn't it actually WOPA? Sorry > if this might be considered "off topic".. Well, if Sam thinks it's okay ... Yes, in "Wargames," the military did refer to the compuer as WOPR (War Operations Planned Response), while the creator of the computer, and to the hero, it was Joshua (the creator's dead son). -spc ("Would you like to play a game?") From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Mar 24 21:59:20 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: More on setting-up Sun3 from tape Message-ID: <01bd57a2$63e4cf20$LocalHost@7330t> On 23 Mar 1998 18:15:18 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >>I'm not sure what edlabel is, but if you are running SunOS, there ... The OS is NetBSD 1.2, and edlabel is the partitioning command available from the miniroot program loaded by the tape boot loader. >>So I'm guessing you want to set partition b to start at 29297 and be length 20480 (for 10MB, are you sure that is enough), and<< According to the NetBSD FAQ, the swap partition is to be 2 to 3 times the size of the RAM, which is 4mb. >>Or am I missing something here? My math came out similar to yours, too. However, I keep getting the "ioctrl" error message, which does not show up in the man pages that I have. So...I'm appealing to the great Unix minds congregating in this list to shed some light. edlabel allows me to create the "a" partition, but no others. ================================== Rich Cini/WUGNET - Charter ClubWin! Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of classic computers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980324/d79bb250/attachment.html From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Mar 23 23:37:22 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 software In-Reply-To: References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: I found a local collector who has the original Lisa 1 disks - I gather he at least has Office, and I assume he has most of the apps as well. I don't know much about the 1's, but would this be of interest to lisa 1 owners? Or do most people lucky enough to have the 1 already have the software? The other question concerns the protection - as the twiggy drives were certainly non-standard, would it still be possible to remove the copy protection from these disks? Thanks heaps, Adam. From weese at mind.net Tue Mar 24 22:45:01 1998 From: weese at mind.net (riff raff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames Message-ID: <199803250445.UAA15678@one.mind.net> > Yes, in "Wargames," the military did refer to the compuer as WOPR (War > Operations Planned Response), while the creator of the computer, and to the > hero, it was Joshua (the creator's dead son). Not sure what Capn Napalm meant by that, the thing I remember is that "Joshua" was (in addition to being the name of the computer creator's dead son, the light of his life) the secret #2 backdoor password to get in..... _____________________________________________ hoping to someday have half a brain, --- mikey weese@mind.net From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 24 23:11:32 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: <352666b7.246971766@hoser> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > Thought someone in the group might be interested. As usual, if you > are discovered, I will deny any knowledge of your existence. > > >We have an OLD Data General One Laptop from 1983!!!! He wants $500 for it. Such a deal :-) -- Doug From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 24 23:28:44 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale References: Message-ID: <3518960C.6C568139@crl.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Bill Richman wrote: > > > Thought someone in the group might be interested. As usual, if you > > are discovered, I will deny any knowledge of your existence. > > > > >We have an OLD Data General One Laptop from 1983!!!! > > He wants $500 for it. Such a deal :-) He also said at the end, "No reasonable offer refused." Just curious, what would you consider to be a reasonable offer for one of these. Or perhaps more to the point, exactly what is one of these? ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 24 23:36:46 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: <3518960C.6C568139@crl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > > > >We have an OLD Data General One Laptop from 1983!!!! > > > > He wants $500 for it. Such a deal :-) > > He also said at the end, "No reasonable offer refused." Just curious, > what would you consider to be a reasonable offer for one of these. Or > perhaps more to the point, exactly what is one of these? ;) The DG/One was a fairly non-descript early 8086 laptop. According to DG's website, it was the "first truly portable" PC and they made 43,000 of them: http://www.dg.com/about/html/dg-one.html I don't know what a reasonable offer would be, but it's apparently more than the $15 I offered :-) GRiD's clamshell-style Compass laptop preceded the DG/One by a couple of years (and the GRiD is *much* cooler, IMHO). Perhaps the DG/One was the first battery-powered PC-compatible laptop? I can't think of an earlier one of the top of my head. -- Doug From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 25 00:08:43 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen In-Reply-To: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35199ed1.1493850@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:20:13 PST, you said: >A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use A dollar or two; but you really need the expansion box to to much with it. The processor is TMS-9900, 16-bit and unusual. (I have a dozen) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 25 00:30:22 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> <35199ed1.1493850@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3518A47E.277CFD36@crl.com> Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:20:13 PST, you said: > > >A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use > > A dollar or two; but you really need the expansion box to to much with > it. The processor is TMS-9900, 16-bit and unusual. (I have a dozen) You do NOT need an expansion box to do much with this. It has a large assortment of *excellent* game cartridges ;) BTW, does anyone have an assembler for this beast? I want it bad, for some perverse reason. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 25 00:36:53 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen In-Reply-To: <3518A47E.277CFD36@crl.com> References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> <35199ed1.1493850@mail.swbell.net> <3518A47E.277CFD36@crl.com> Message-ID: <351ca594.3225635@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:30:22 -0800, you said: >Barry Peterson wrote: >> >> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:20:13 PST, you said: >> >> >A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use >> >> A dollar or two; but you really need the expansion box to to much with >> it. The processor is TMS-9900, 16-bit and unusual. (I have a dozen) > >You do NOT need an expansion box to do much with this. It has a large >assortment of *excellent* game cartridges ;) BTW, does anyone have an >assembler for this beast? I want it bad, for some perverse reason. Sure, but you need the expansion box! _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From engine at chac.org Wed Mar 25 00:23:01 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 software In-Reply-To: References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980324222301.00ecf570@pop.batnet.com> At 15:07 3/24/98 +0930, Adam wrote: >....do most people lucky enough to have the 1 already have the software?(1) The >other question concerns the protection - as the twiggy drives were >certainly non-standard,(2) would it still be possible to remove the copy >protection from these disks?(3) (1) Ha! (2) You need a running Twiggy, or in plain English, you need a properly aligned Twiggy. I know of nothing else that will read those disks, because of the odd positions of the access holes. (3) Removing the copy protection on the Sony disks, I know, involved setting a two-byte serialization field back to 00 (or FF?) The Twiggys can't have been too different. Apple wrote a utility that would do that; I may be able to dig up its name. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From mor at crl.com Wed Mar 25 01:14:22 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> <35199ed1.1493850@mail.swbell.net> <3518A47E.277CFD36@crl.com> <351ca594.3225635@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3518AECE.73E0B369@crl.com> Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:30:22 -0800, you said: > > >Barry Peterson wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:20:13 PST, you said: > >> > >> >A TI 99/4A - how much should I pay and what processor does it use > >> > >> A dollar or two; but you really need the expansion box to to much with > >> it. The processor is TMS-9900, 16-bit and unusual. (I have a dozen) > > > >You do NOT need an expansion box to do much with this. It has a large > >assortment of *excellent* game cartridges ;) BTW, does anyone have an > >assembler for this beast? I want it bad, for some perverse reason. > > Sure, but you need the expansion box! Got one (and a hernia toting it around, making room for useful devices). Maybe if I can get my hands on an assembler, I'll finally have a use for it! -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 25 01:29:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Paul Allan's PDP-10 In-Reply-To: <3518AECE.73E0B369@crl.com> Message-ID: I just joined the list recently, so I'm virtually certain this is old news, but just in case.... I found this while infosurfing: From: xkladmin@paulallen.com (XKLeTen Admin) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec Subject: XKL (PDP10) Site Announcement Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:55:47 GMT Organization: XKLeTen Message-ID: <34a85fd3.3481181@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: xkladmin@paulallen.com Dear Fellow PDP-10 Enthusiast, Over the past 25 years, it's been challenging for all of us to find a place to run our PDP-10 software. At the same time, there hasn't been a library of PDP-10 software that is well taken care of, and made easily available to the interested public. I would like to offer a solution. I have invested in a TOAD-1 machine running the PDP-10 architecture, and would like to make its capabilities available. The TOAD is manufactured by XKL LLC, and is a completely new hardware implementation of Digital's 36-bit PDP-10 architecture, not an emulator running on another platform. This machine I've purchased will be a repository for PDP10 public domain software, including the collection of the DEC-10 and DEC-20 DECUS tapes. By making access accounts available to an initial limited group, we hope to learn of any issue areas with our new program. Through an account you can set up with us, you can access this library, and run programs you may not have seen for years. You may also submit your own programs for storage, and for use by fellow advocates. These programs may be submitted via FTP, email or 9-track tapes. Once you have an account established you could access XKLeTen via telnet. Anyone may download the libraries of software through anonymous FTP from XKLeTen.paulallen.com. The machine, named XKLeTen, is configured as follows: TOAD-1, 36-bit computing system TOPS-20 system software 32 MW memory board 4 mm DDS tape drive 9 track tape drive 8 gigabyte disk I encourage any of you who are interested to contact us to set up an account. To be considered for an account, please submit the following information to XKLadmin@paulallen.com: Full name Email address Interest or purpose in this project (short summary) Desired account name If you have any questions about XKLeTen, or how to execute the anonymous FTP, please contact us via the same email address. Bill Gates and I used PDP10s to develop much of Microsoft's early software. I hope many of you take advantage of this new opportunity to keep alive some of your old memories. Paul G. Allen From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 25 01:39:57 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Wargames In-Reply-To: References: <19980325000658.260.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980325013957.008a8100@pop3.webzone.net> At 11:41 PM 3/24/98 +0000, you wrote: >> Why ARE screens 80 Cols wide? > >Err, because punched cards (at least IBM Hollerith cards) were 80 columns? > >-tony > > Yup. On the PC 80 col screen, you can fit two standard IBM Hollerith cards (12 rows each card, 24 rows on screen). Neat, huh? I'm working with Hollerith cards on my system right now with an optical card scanner. Data storage capacity measured by bytes/pound anyone? -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 25 07:36:55 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Unix source licenses available soon? Message-ID: I just got this message from someone inside SCO. The only reason I don't post his e-mail address is because I don't know if he wanted people bombarding him with questions or requests for information. But I thought this might be of interest in case nobody else has heard. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:42:19 PST From: Dion Johnson To: Sam Ismail Subject: yo I just finished arranging a nearly-free source license for people who want old UNIX sources Edition1-7. There are about 400 people in the PDP-1 Unix Preservation Society! (minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) I work for SCO and did the wrangling with the legal eagles, and yes it was a side project. It costs $100, but we will waive that fee for hardship/justifiable cases -Dion Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Mar 25 08:28:28 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale Message-ID: <1998Mar25.092734.1767.91268@smtp.itgonline.com> I paid $5.00 for my Data General One. It's a piece of junk. The screen is IMPOSSIBLE to read, just as Data General boasts about it (go figure this for something to be proud of) at their web site. It is a large and heavy laptop and from a collector standpoint, in my opinion, isn't worth persuing unless you can get it on the cheap $15.00 to $25.00 maximum as a curiosity. An 8086/8088 system by any other name is an 8086/8088 system. $500.00 is a joke. Dream on. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/25/98 1:46 AM On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > > > >We have an OLD Data General One Laptop from 1983!!!! > > > > He wants $500 for it. Such a deal :-) > > He also said at the end, "No reasonable offer refused." Just curious, > what would you consider to be a reasonable offer for one of these. Or > perhaps more to the point, exactly what is one of these? ;) The DG/One was a fairly non-descript early 8086 laptop. According to DG's website, it was the "first truly portable" PC and they made 43,000 of them: http://www.dg.com/about/html/dg-one.html I don't know what a reasonable offer would be, but it's apparently more than the $15 I offered :-) GRiD's clamshell-style Compass laptop preceded the DG/One by a couple of years (and the GRiD is *much* cooler, IMHO). Perhaps the DG/One was the first battery-powered PC-compatible laptop? I can't think of an earlier one of the top of my head. -- Doug ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar25.014640.1767.33770; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:46:40 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA10991; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:36:57 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA31470 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:36:49 -0800 Received: from behemoth.host4u.net (behemoth.host4u.net [209.150.128.29]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id VAA06816 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:36:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (yowza@localhost) by behemoth.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA24149 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:36:46 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:36:46 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Yowza To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: <3518960C.6C568139@crl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Sender: yowza@behemoth.host4u.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 25 08:33:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen Message-ID: <199803251433.AA22535@world.std.com> David Wollmann wrote: >I'm working with >Hollerith cards on my system right now with an optical card scanner. Data >storage capacity measured by bytes/pound anyone? Can you tell us more about what you're doing? Is this a commercial card reader, or something you built yourself? I was daydreaming the other day about reading punched cards using a flatbed scanner. Software to "read" them could be quite simple, and could easily adapt to the various card geometries. Or you could even make a reader from a feed-roller and an old hand-held scanner. I find using today's gizmos to rescue yesterday's data quite interesting... - John Jefferson Computer Museum From maynard at jmg.com Wed Mar 25 11:20:23 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: More on setting-up Sun3 from tape In-Reply-To: <01bd57a2$63e4cf20$LocalHost@7330t> (rcini@email.msn.com) References: <01bd57a2$63e4cf20$LocalHost@7330t> Message-ID: <199803251720.MAA09603@mr-gateway.internal.net> > From: "Richard A. Cini" > Subject: Re: More on setting-up Sun3 from tape [some snippage here and there] > > On 23 Mar 1998 18:15:18 -0800, Frank McConnell = > wrote: > > >>I'm not sure what edlabel is, but if you are running SunOS, there ... > > The OS is NetBSD 1.2, and edlabel is the partitioning command = > available from the miniroot program loaded by the tape boot loader. I'm running NetBSD 1.3 on a 3/80, but I seem to remember in the back of my cobwebbed skull that 1.3 doesn't work on the 3/50 yet because the 3/50 can only address memory in 1MB increments (which makes a larger than 1MB kernel impossible). OK, so now we know why you're using an old OS revision.... > > >>So I'm guessing you want to set partition b to start at 29297 and > be length 20480 (for 10MB, are you sure that is enough), and<< > > According to the NetBSD FAQ, the swap partition is to be 2 to 3 = > times the size of the RAM, which is 4mb. > > >>Or am I missing something here? I think the math is right too. I'd start looking at the drive itself, or possibly check to see if edlabel has any known bugs in your OS revision. You might be able to just compile the latest version and fix the problem. Pull the drive out of your machine and see if you can partition it somewhere else. Make your partition table similar to what the Sun would expect - such as a for root, b for swap, c for whole disk, g for usr - etc etc etc. And I recommend you use a larger root partition. Give it 30 to 50MB for upgrades, and symlink /var to /usr/var, or create a separate /var filesystem of about 30 to 50 MB. > > My math came out similar to yours, too. However, I keep getting the = > "ioctrl" error message, which does not show up in the man pages that I = > have. So...I'm appealing to the great Unix minds congregating in this = > list to shed some light. edlabel allows me to create the "a" partition, = > but no others. > This looks like a drive failure or partition editing software failure. Have you checked on the Sun3 mailing list at netbsd.org? --jmg From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 25 10:39:33 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Nintendo Stuff... Message-ID: <000301bd580c$c4d6b860$9067bcc1@hotze> Hi. I've got a few questions, some are on topic, some arn't. 1) How do you get into the case of a NES? (Origional Nintendo, 8 bit) What's inside? (Other than the 6502) 2) What about SNES? 3) Gameboy? 4) (Off-topic) what processor does the Virtual Boy use? What kind of stuff? Emulators avaible? How do I transfer ROMS? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 25 11:14:05 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Nintendo Stuff... In-Reply-To: <000301bd580c$c4d6b860$9067bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <13342531417.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> {Nintendo} How do you open it? 4 screws i the bottom, and a few around the RFI shield. I still have mine. What's inside? Lots of goodies. 2 CPUs. 3. Gameboy? A Z-80. 4. Emulators? Lots. Xfer methods: Look at Emu pages. You can mail me off-list for more info... ------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 25 12:04:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Nintendo Stuff... References: <000301bd580c$c4d6b860$9067bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <35194745.8A4E6286@bbtel.com> Hotze wrote: > Hi. I've got a few questions, some are on topic, some arn't. > 1) How do you get into the case of a NES? (Origional Nintendo, 8 bit) > What's inside? (Other than the 6502) > 2) What about SNES? > 3) Gameboy? > 4) (Off-topic) what processor does the Virtual Boy use? What kind of stuff? > Emulators avaible? How do I transfer ROMS? Is anyone aware that on the original Nintendo that if you have problems where it won't recognize the game cartridge you can call the 1-800 number on the game and talk to them about getting a one time replacement, as long as you tell them you'll repair the game and that you're the owner, not a repair shop? They'll also want the game's serial number to track whether it's been sent a replacement already. They know the original is crap and that they'll make a few $$$ doing overhauls on machines made defective by their own penny pinching. If you insist on buying the connector, MCM Electronics has the connectors for around $9. As for getting into the case, remove the outer screws, lift the lid, take off the shield, slide the connector off and slip the new one on, and install the shield and cover. No big deal. Some of the newer ones have security screws though so get them out by drilling a small hole in them and use an "EZ OUT" to revove the old screws, replace them with common screws of the same size. If anyone gets into this stuff regularly and needs security type bits, MCM has a nice little set for around $12. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Mar 25 12:15:52 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: S/36 info Message-ID: <351949D7.FF9D9312@bbtel.com> What size disks does the IBM S/36 use and is this the same machine you refer to as a "System 36"?? I may have a whole batch of books and disks coming to me in the very near future and am curious if they may be of any value to anyone out in "pooter land". -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 25 12:30:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: S/36 info In-Reply-To: <351949D7.FF9D9312@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <13342545411.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [S/36 disks] Mine uses 5 1/4" disks, some older ones use 8" disks. ------- From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Mar 25 12:42:25 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:58 2005 Subject: Things seen In-Reply-To: <3518AECE.73E0B369@crl.com> References: <19980325002013.24639.qmail@hotmail.com> <35199ed1.1493850@mail.swbell.net> <3518A47E.277CFD36@crl.com> <351ca594.3225635@mail.swbell.net> <3518AECE.73E0B369@crl.com> Message-ID: <35194f82.754394@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:14:22 -0800, you said: >> BTW, does anyone have an >> >assembler for this beast? I want it bad, for some perverse reason. >> >> Sure, but you need the expansion box! > >Got one (and a hernia toting it around, making room for useful >devices). Maybe if I can get my hands on an assembler, I'll finally >have a use for it! If you can handle a IBM->TI99 transfer, I can email the Funnelweb package (the definitive TI-99 app) which contains editor, assembler, disk utilities, etc. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 25 13:07:27 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: card reading In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980325093951.00bde840@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980325130727.008a68d0@pop3.webzone.net> At 09:39 AM 3/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >David Wollmann wrote: >>I'm working with >>Hollerith cards on my system right now with an optical card scanner. Data >>storage capacity measured by bytes/pound anyone? > >Can you tell us more about what you're doing? Is this a commercial >card reader, or something you built yourself? I was daydreaming... This is a Chattsworth optical Hollerith card reader designed for reading test and survey cards. It's specially modified to be able to handle cards without timing marks, and I suspect the surface behind the read area is specially coated so the punches are visible to the scanner as something like "pencil marks." It feeds cards lengthwise from a 150-card hopper with a rubber roller and an actuated plate that drops the stack on the roller to feed each card. It communicates asynch, top speed 9600 bps (ouch) and offers the option to interpret the punches as standard Hollerith, or output them in a special 2-byte binary format with bit 5 in each byte high for error checking and control character filtering. The customer told me these were standard Hollerith, but of course they're not--they're a custom blend of Hollerith and indicator columns that store survey results. Writing the C to translate the output has been a lot of fun. Since the xlate table was so large (lots of holes in it), I created a human-readable text file, then a C program to convert that to the source for the array. The machine is slow and not well documented. I'm stuck running it on a DOS box, and don't have a good async lib for DOS, so I have to read the cards using ASCII file xfer from an old version of Procomm. Next time around I'm going to hook the reader up to a Linux box and port the code so I can xlate on the fly and handle jams more gracefully. The big problem is, these cards have been in storage somewhere in Spain since 1964 (close to the water I suspect) and rubber-banded together. Most of the rubber bands have melted and then petrified, so I have to scrape the remains from the cards with my handy Opinel blade before I can feed them (the key slot is very tight). As you can imagine, the cards also have quite a bit of curl which causes a lot of jams. I suspect any other cards we may get from other projects will be in just as bad a condition or worse, so I think we would have been much better off if we had been able to kludge an old IBM reader. That's probably going to be my next project--hooking a real reader to an Intel Linux machine. Does anyone have any CE docs for IBM card readers? BTW, there is a web site with some good background on Hollerith cards. It lists several of the character sets and some historical information: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/index.html There is also a Univac page that provides some good historical information on punched cards IIRC, but I can't find the shortcut right now. >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 25 13:14:36 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: S/36 info In-Reply-To: <351949D7.FF9D9312@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980325131436.008ac640@pop3.webzone.net> At 12:15 PM 3/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >What size disks does the IBM S/36 use and is this the same machine you >refer to as a "System 36"?? I may have a whole batch of books and disks >coming to me in the very near future and am curious if they may be of >any value to anyone out in "pooter land". > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman The 5360 and 5362 use 8". The 5363 and 5364 (PC/36) use 5.25". If you get any development or unusual stuff I'd sure like a crack at it so I could at least archive it to CD. -- David Wollmann dwollmann@ibmhelp.com From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Mar 25 13:48:16 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Mikbug info? Message-ID: <199803251948.OAA10988@webern.cs.unc.edu> From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 25 13:57:46 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? Message-ID: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> Ok... there's this technicial genius, he makes what very well may be the two key foundations necessary for IBM to make a PC for Compaq to clone it, for Unix to serve it, to make the Internet to share it... BUT WHAT THE ^*%@ HAPPENED TO HIM? I've got a faint notation that he got involved in Be, what ever that is. It seems like an OS, I remember hearing that it was getting ported to Intel platforms... what happend to him? Why isn't he like... at Apple, where he belongs doing innovation? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Mar 25 14:19:09 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? In-Reply-To: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 25, 98 10:57:46 pm Message-ID: <199803252019.MAA27297@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980325/f26e11a9/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 25 14:23:27 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? Message-ID: <001101bd582b$e14e8760$b867bcc1@hotze> I tried that before. I get the following error: The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. Remote server closed connection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- So, anyone...? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Seth J. Morabito To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 11:12 PM Subject: Re: What ever happened to Woz? >> >> Ok... there's this technicial genius, he makes what very well may be the two >> key foundations necessary for IBM to make a PC for Compaq to clone it, for >> Unix to serve it, to make the Internet to share it... BUT WHAT THE ^*%@ >> HAPPENED TO HIM? >> I've got a faint notation that he got involved in Be, what ever that is. >> It seems like an OS, I remember hearing that it was getting ported to Intel >> platforms... what happend to him? Why isn't he like... at Apple, where he >> belongs doing innovation? >> Thanks, > >All your questions, and more, can be answered at: > >http://www.woz.org/ (no kidding!) > >He's teaching 5th grade now. He's doing what every great person who >achieves tremendous wealth should, in my humble opinion, be doing: Giving >up the crazy game and going off to enjoy life :) More power to him. > >BTW, _definitely_ not on-topic and I apologize for that, but Be is >indeed an OS company, and it's gaining quite a following, although I >don't believe Wozniak has ever had anything to do with them. You may >be thinking of the CEO, Jean-Louis Gassee, who was an... "interesting" >figure at Apple for quite some time. More answers can be had at >http://www.be.com/ (amazingly enough). > >-Seth (Be Developer #3048) From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 25 14:28:04 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Nintendo Stuff... Message-ID: <000a01bd582c$8451ca80$35f438cb@nostromo> Having spent over 10 years programming BOTH the NES and SNES, yet I know little about the hardware other than how to make it do stuff! That is; I know the registers, not the chips. I can confirm, however... NES = 6502 SNES = 65816 - the world's worst processor!!! Gameboy = Z80 There is a very good NES emulator ccalled Nesticle. Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Nintendo Stuff... >Hotze wrote: > >> Hi. I've got a few questions, some are on topic, some arn't. >> 1) How do you get into the case of a NES? (Origional Nintendo, 8 bit) >> What's inside? (Other than the 6502) >> 2) What about SNES? >> 3) Gameboy? >> 4) (Off-topic) what processor does the Virtual Boy use? What kind of stuff? >> Emulators avaible? How do I transfer ROMS? > >Is anyone aware that on the original Nintendo that if you have problems where it >won't recognize the game cartridge you can call the 1-800 number on the game and >talk to them about getting a one time replacement, as long as you tell them >you'll repair the game and that you're the owner, not a repair shop? They'll >also want the game's serial number to track whether it's been sent a replacement >already. They know the original is crap and that they'll make a few $$$ doing >overhauls on machines made defective by their own penny pinching. If you insist >on buying the connector, MCM Electronics has the connectors for around $9. > >As for getting into the case, remove the outer screws, lift the lid, take off >the shield, slide the connector off and slip the new one on, and install the >shield and cover. No big deal. Some of the newer ones have security screws >though so get them out by drilling a small hole in them and use an "EZ OUT" to >revove the old screws, replace them with common screws of the same size. > >If anyone gets into this stuff regularly and needs security type bits, MCM has a >nice little set for around $12. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 25 14:44:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: System/34 again Message-ID: <19980325204440.6462.qmail@hotmail.com> NONE of those should be very high, since these are the wires going directly to the electronics. One has a label "+5v". I am pretty sure it's not dangerous at all. If you fry the system, you can take mine - I can't give you my hands if you blow them off, though.... >[Sys/34] >Looks... >Oh you mean the one by the "DANGER 480V" stickers? > >:) >ARE YOU NUTS!? > >Well, once I get the probe of my voltmeter fixed, I'll try it. >Any idea where I can stick probes w/o crisping myself? >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Mar 25 15:03:49 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: System/34 again In-Reply-To: <19980325204440.6462.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13342573238.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [480V...] Ahh, I'll give it a shot. Besides, the 480V sticker was probably intended for that transformer up front... (Did you see the SIZE of that thing? Christ! I bet it weighs 40-50 pounds!) ------- From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 25 15:33:09 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? In-Reply-To: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Hotze wrote: > Ok... there's this technicial genius, he makes what very well may be the two > key foundations necessary for IBM to make a PC for Compaq to clone it, for > Unix to serve it, to make the Internet to share it... BUT WHAT THE ^*%@ > HAPPENED TO HIM? > I've got a faint notation that he got involved in Be, what ever that is. > It seems like an OS, I remember hearing that it was getting ported to Intel > platforms... what happend to him? Why isn't he like... at Apple, where he > belongs doing innovation? He lives in Los Gatos, California, teaching. That's just as precious (perhaps more so) as innovating. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Wed Mar 25 16:05:28 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? In-Reply-To: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980325160528.008d0140@pop3.webzone.net> At 10:57 PM 3/25/98 +0300, you wrote: >Ok... there's this technicial genius, he makes what very well may be the two >key foundations necessary for IBM to make a PC for Compaq to clone it, for >Unix to serve it, to make the Internet to share it... BUT WHAT THE ^*%@ >HAPPENED TO HIM? > I've got a faint notation that he got involved in Be, what ever that is. >It seems like an OS, I remember hearing that it was getting ported to Intel >platforms... what happend to him? Why isn't he like... at Apple, where he >belongs doing innovation? > Thanks, > >Tim D. Hotze I just tried the site, no response. I checked InterNIC: [No name] WOZ-HST Hostname: WOZ.ORG Address: 209.76.144.2 System: ? running ? Coordinator: Wozniak, Steve SW70 steve@WOZ.ORG (xxx) xxx-xxxx Record last updated on 29-Aug-97. Database last updated on 25-Mar-98 04:08:11 EDT. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 25 16:42:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Mikbug info? Message-ID: <199803252242.AA18240@world.std.com> <>From very nearly the first day I bumped into a computer, I've <9803210221.ZM12749@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <351940C1.2866C751@cnct.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Mar 20, 17:02, Max Eskin wrote: > > Subject: Time/Date stamper > > Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How > > do I get rid of that? > > When I ran litho printing presses (in a former life) we used a solvent called > MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) to undo "blanket smashes" -- dents in the rubber > offset blanket caused by crumpled paper under high pressure. It's also used to > give the blanket an occasional extra-good clean. MEK is also used in the > plastics industry as a solvent and to glue PVC and ABS. It shouldn't be too > hard to find. Caution: it's very inflammable, it dissolves or at least attacks > several types of plastic, removes ink as soon as you look at it, and also > removes the natural oils from your skin, so don't wash you hands in it :-) I haven't used MEK, back in the days when I was with the Radio Shack Computer Centers one of my managers introduced me to the use of acetone for the restoration of hymens on daisy wheel printer platens. Warnings are the same. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 25 12:02:50 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 References: Message-ID: <351946CA.3F804D2@cnct.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > > Somebody asked me: > > "I have a TSR Model 1 fully expanded to 84k. The only problem is the > monitor cable end is damaged and needs replacement. Is it worth any > thing?" > > I don't do TRS-80's. Can anybody help this guy out with a ballpark > estimate? Last time I checked, an appropriate DIN connector was available at any Radio Shack store. _Much_ easier to find than the DIN connector for a Color Computer joystick. And we'll have to assume a transposition error on that RAM amount. 48K is a blown-out Model One's limit from stock parts. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 25 14:58:00 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Things seen References: <199803251433.AA22535@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35196FD8.491A8F1D@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Keep looking as there was an assembler for disk (PEB, 32kram, rs232, > floppy). I have a copy but not giving it away as I use it on my system > from time to time. > > The 9900 wasn't a bad cpu for the late 1970s timeframe (the 99/4a was > later) but it was slow and the 99/4a was real slow. I was underwhelmed when I first played with a 99/4 in the Las Vegas Computerland back in '80, when I did a quick little BASIC program to count and print from 1 to 100 and got there first myself, but that seems to have been the fault of a BASIC interpreter that had serious flaws -- playing with my ex-fiance's (we got married last month) TI boxes shows me that it was at least as fast as the CoCo 1 if it was properly programmed. She collected those, as she credits an algebra tutorial she loaded from tape got her through the math requirement to get her nursing degree (as a former math major I am of course apalled that all a nurse needs for a BS is what I learned in junior high school [well] before Intel was founded). -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 25 15:04:10 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TI calculator display References: <19980325003419.11335.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3519714A.D814173F@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > A certain TI-85 (which I will try to fix, but is not mine) has a > strange problem. The display does not display a strip of graphics. > Everything else is fine, but about 20 rows just don't work. They DO > work sometimes, but are then distorted. The LCD is connected to the > board with a ridiculously long ribbon connector, folded several times, > made out of thin plastic. Any ideas? Chances are rather strong that there is a broken conductor in that cable that makes intermittent contact, since you mention that a consistent block of the display is flaky. _Might_ be a solder joint on a chip, but those flat folded cables break often. The cable might even be loose in the connector if you're lucky. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 25 17:27:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TI calculator display Message-ID: <19980325232721.23025.qmail@hotmail.com> The problem is that I can't tell how to attach another ribbon to the LCD, and the circuit board end is surface mount soldered. Ideas? >Chances are rather strong that there is a broken conductor in that >cable that makes intermittent contact, since you mention that a >consistent block of the display is flaky. _Might_ be a solder joint >on a chip, but those flat folded cables break often. The cable >might even be loose in the connector if you're lucky. >-- >Ward Griffiths >Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? >WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Mar 25 14:55:51 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? In-Reply-To: <199803252019.MAA27297@sqcisco.squeep.com> References: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> from "Hotze" at Mar 25, 98 10:57:46 pm Message-ID: <199803252319.RAA24798@onyx.southwind.net> Off-topic? Not really. The BE Box, as cool as it was, has been done in my mass-marketed junque. The BE, afaik, is now the Tucker of the computer business (along with the DG AViiON, the NeXT, among others). Original BE Boxes are destined to become classics. Definitely way cool OS, though. Jeff > BTW, _definitely_ not on-topic and I apologize for that, but Be is > indeed an OS company, and it's gaining quite a following, although I > don't believe Wozniak has ever had anything to do with them. You may > be thinking of the CEO, Jean-Louis Gassee, who was an... "interesting" > figure at Apple for quite some time. More answers can be had at > http://www.be.com/ (amazingly enough). > > -Seth (Be Developer #3048) > From kroma at worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 25 19:41:26 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? Message-ID: <00c601bd5858$4bc7e600$5c88440c@kroma-i> >I tried that before. I get the following error: >The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. > >Remote server closed connection. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - I can't get in with MSIE, but Netscape worked. Have you tried to Netscape? -- Kirk From maths at cix.compulink.co.uk Wed Mar 25 11:34:00 1998 From: maths at cix.compulink.co.uk (David Mather) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In article , yowza@yowza.com (Doug Yowza) wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > The DG/One was a fairly non-descript early 8086 laptop. According to > DG's > website, it was the "first truly portable" PC and they made 43,000 of > them: > http://www.dg.com/about/html/dg-one.html Well - it wasn't non-descript at the time! It had a full-size (80x25) LCD display and WAS the first >truly< portable PC compatible - depending what you meant by truly of course. Compaq and Olivetti (and Zenith?) had luggable things compared to which the DG1 was extremely elegant, especially with the rather smart beige/brown DG trim. At the time it had "buy me" written all over it. David From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Mar 25 20:31:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? Message-ID: <19980326023151.28395.qmail@hotmail.com> Lynx worked fine too. Suggestive? >>I tried that before. I get the following error: >>The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. >> >>Remote server closed connection. >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > > >I can't get in with MSIE, but Netscape worked. Have you tried to Netscape? > > -- Kirk > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 25 21:20:25 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Franklin ACE 500 Message-ID: <003301bd5866$227bf760$4d68420c@francois> Hi, I just acquired a Franklin ACE 500, unfortunately it came without the power supply. Does anyone have info on the power connector and requirements. Thanks Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From yowza at yowza.com Wed Mar 25 21:33:53 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I picked up some interesting items today, but none of them were complete enough for me to fire-up immediately. The one I understand well enough to do something with is the Morrow Pivot. I simply need a power adapter for this one. A label near the power plug tells me it wants 15V, a label on the back tells me it wants 3A, but nothing tells me polarity and I'd rather not guess. Can anybody help? (BTW, it's a Pivot, not a Pivot II if that matters). I also found a National Semiconductor Board Level Computer (BLC). It's an 8080A single-board computer from 1977. There's also an unpopulated ROM board in the small card cage. I know zilch about this one. There are plenty of unconnected edge-connectors on the CPU board and an on-board 8251, so I assume I can make this one fly if I simply figure out the I/O connections and power requirements. Finally, a very nice 1977 wood+aluminum case, S-100 backplane, and PS from Vector Electronic (who just made chassis AFAIK). There are several cards I recognize: floppy controller, 64K RAM board, parallel/serial I/O card w/modem, and then one that appears to be the CPU card: a 1979 Ithaca Audio IA-1010 card with an NEC D780C (Z80 clone). The 2708 EPROM didn't have the UV window covered, but it was dark in there, so I'm hopeful. Unfortunately, I don't have an A/C cord that fits the three-prong (center round) connector. I hope it's not trying to tell me that it wants a voltage other than 110V, is it? -- Doug From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Mar 25 21:35:49 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: What ever happened to Woz? Message-ID: <002301bd5868$6c0127a0$6267bcc1@hotze> Tried it with IE4. Tried it with Netscape 4.04. Tried it with Mosaic 2.11... any ideas? -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 5:34 AM Subject: Re: What ever happened to Woz? > > > > > > > >Lynx worked fine too. Suggestive? >>>I tried that before. I get the following error: >>>The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. >>> >>>Remote server closed connection. >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >>- >> >> >>I can't get in with MSIE, but Netscape worked. Have you tried to >Netscape? >> >> -- Kirk >> >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From archive at navix.net Wed Mar 25 23:53:05 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? Message-ID: <3519ED40.B7B5306C@navix.net> Greets: Here's a question for you all: how does early serial numbers on classic machines effect their relative value to collectors. Here's an instance: I recently acquired five (5) old TRS-80 Model III computers. They are numbered in the following way: 0000365 0000474 0000475 0000477 0000510 Yeh, and two, almost three are numbered in succession... how often does that happen. Plus, those particular machines came from two different states, and the successive machines were also split up by 900 miles!! How often does that happen? Anyway, for a TRS-80 collector, or classic computer collectors in general... how does these early numbers effect their value to potential collectors of these machines. I've heard of someone (I think) that had a very early numbered CoCo (less than 10?), but haven't heard much else. Any more of you have stories like this that I mentioned above? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 25 22:08:09 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? Message-ID: <00d701bd586c$ca4873a0$35f438cb@nostromo> >Anyway, for a TRS-80 collector, or classic computer collectors in >general... how does these early numbers effect their value to potential >collectors of these machines. I've heard of someone (I think) that had a >very early numbered CoCo (less than 10?), but haven't heard much else. >Any more of you have stories like this that I mentioned above? My favourite subject! I have Mattel Aquarius II computers serial #8, #10, #68 I have it's colour printer serial #2 I think early serial #s are very collectible, myself. YOu can see all my serial #s for the Aquarius items at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius.html Cheers A From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 25 22:26:51 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 pinouts In-Reply-To: <000001bd5828$bbd9ef40$b867bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: Does anyone have the pinouts for any of the TI Silent 700 terminals? Believe it or not, the model doesn't really matter. Also does anyone have any information as to weather or not their modems are Hayes compatible. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Mar 25 22:35:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? Message-ID: <199803260435.AA25006@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3519F13B.3825ECB8@navix.net> I get on with IE4 just fine. I do get a JavaScript error, but can click that pop-up off the screen and it works just fine after that. CORD -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| Hotze wrote: > Tried it with IE4. Tried it with Netscape 4.04. Tried it with Mosaic > 2.11... any ideas? > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Eskin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 5:34 AM > Subject: Re: What ever happened to Woz? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Lynx worked fine too. Suggestive? > >>>I tried that before. I get the following error: > >>>The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. > >>> > >>>Remote server closed connection. > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >>- > >> > >> > >>I can't get in with MSIE, but Netscape worked. Have you tried to > >Netscape? > >> > >> -- Kirk > >> > >> > >> > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 25 22:53:44 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? In-Reply-To: <3519ED40.B7B5306C@navix.net> Message-ID: >Here's a question for you all: how does early serial numbers on classic >machines effect their relative value to collectors. Here's an instance: From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Mar 25 22:54:15 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? Message-ID: <001101bd5873$3af28ea0$35f438cb@nostromo> >>0000474 >>0000475 >>0000477 > >I can see some additional value of the two consecutive, if kept together, >now all you need is 476 :^) This reminds me of a recent ad of a gent looking for his old (70s) HP calculator, which he had lost years back - he had the serial number and was advertising for THAT PARTICULAR UNIT. Now *that* would be an amazing find! Cheers A From dastar at wco.com Wed Mar 25 23:12:40 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > The one I understand well enough to do something with is the Morrow Pivot. > I simply need a power adapter for this one. A label near the power plug > tells me it wants 15V, a label on the back tells me it wants 3A, but > nothing tells me polarity and I'd rather not guess. Can anybody help? > (BTW, it's a Pivot, not a Pivot II if that matters). Doug, I've got the original Morrow Pivot as well as the OEM'd Zenith model. Send me a note this Friday night or this weekend to remind me to go check the power supply I have for mine. It's not the "official" power supply but it works. > I also found a National Semiconductor Board Level Computer (BLC). It's an > 8080A single-board computer from 1977. There's also an unpopulated ROM > board in the small card cage. I know zilch about this one. There are > plenty of unconnected edge-connectors on the CPU board and an on-board > 8251, so I assume I can make this one fly if I simply figure out the I/O > connections and power requirements. Nice find! > Finally, a very nice 1977 wood+aluminum case, S-100 backplane, and PS from > Vector Electronic (who just made chassis AFAIK). There are several cards Another nice find! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Mar 25 23:17:08 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 363 References: <199803240802.AAA12549@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3519E4D3.533A6D81@goldrush.com> From: John Rollins Subject: Mac II problem >Here's the message I just sent to ClassicMacs mailing list, I'm too lazy to >type it all again ;-) ============================= >Just picked up a Mac II 5/80/two 800k FD's for $15(including a datatronics >keyboard and an Apple mouse), with an ethernet card that everyone seemedd >to think was a second video card... Good price. Though I myself would never have THAT much desk space available... [snip]! > Finally the normal >System Folder icon is back and it boots again. I launch the hacked HD SC >Setup and it sees a disk at SCSI ID 6(I haven't changed that yet, I need to >take the HD out and find the info on it), but it can't reformat. It says it >can't prepare the disk for initialization, no particular reason is given... >Current config right now is 5/80 with the two 800k drives, and the Radius >Pivot interface. Any ideas? I'm stumped. Most likely the hard drive is a non-Apple drive (i.e. a Quantum or whatever without the special Apple ROM). Apple rigged it's drive setups to only format identifiable Apple HDs. If this is the case there are two options: 1. Locate a 3rd party drive utility like FWB HD Toolkit which works with most SCSI drives, there are a couple on the net but no gaurantees... 2. Check web for the sites that have the patches to the HD Setup progs. to format a non-apple drive anyway. (they are out there, and some are harder than others to do.) I went this route on my external drive, it works great. Here is the site I had found: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ernstoud/scsi.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Mar 25 18:25:04 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Serial Eprom? Message-ID: <199803260517.AAA11500@mail.cgocable.net> Hi guys! I have a need to burn new versions for a Always IN-2K scsi card using Xlinx chipset. Currently aspi driver is ingoring the card because the serial eprom containing firmware is old. I have new verions sitting on my HD along with new bios for the 27C256 chip. If you have one chip to sell and have equipment to burn that serial chip, that would be great! I can supply the 27C256-200ns or if you have one rated at 150ns for a price, burn it also. The serial Eprom is: AMD, am1736, DC, 031YEWH (date code?) The bios is 27C256 at 150ns. Thanks! This card also is nearing 10 years so there! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Mar 25 23:39:24 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 364 References: <199803250802.AAA16269@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3519EA0B.5ACF7E2F@goldrush.com> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SID chips Message-ID: Content-Type: text > > Hi! > > I have a question re. the Commodore 64c - what was the number of the SID > chip? I assuem that the C64c had one, but the most likely chip was > numbered 8580R5, whereas I was expecting a 6581 or 6582. The 64c was a cost-reduced version of the 64 where many chips were integrated into larger ones, they also re-vamped the SID chip which takes a different voltage then the original SID and has 'fixes' whaich makes some earlier programs sound worse (there was a 'click' you get when adjusting the volume control, and it was used for digitized sounds, the new sid fixed this click, now no digitized sounds in some progs. I dunno the 64c SID number but I think that (8580) may be it... :/ I think the 6582 was in the 128 or 128D... -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 26 00:09:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 pinouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone have the pinouts for any of the TI Silent 700 terminals? > Believe it or not, the model doesn't really matter. Also does anyone have > any information as to weather or not their modems are Hayes compatible. The first Silent 700 was made in 1971; was Hayes even born yet? I'm not sure if that model (735) included the modem. I've got a 745 on the way to me that does include the modem, but I think it's got an accoustic coupler, so there are no modem commands to be compatible with. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 26 00:32:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: S/36 info References: <13342545411.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3519F685.DB982BDC@bbtel.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [S/36 disks] > Mine uses 5 1/4" disks, some older ones use 8" disks. > ------- That's what the person told me they were, 5 1/4" disks. I should know more of what there is tommorow and post it for those interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 26 00:33:22 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? References: Message-ID: <3519F6B2.7DA092A8@cnct.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > So as you can see, while a low model number might appear to be desirable, > it isn't always. In my personal experience if you are going for "collection value", go for low serial numbers. If you actually want to _use_ the bastard, get the highest number you can find. I'd rather use the bastard and as an earlier message said, the TRS-80 Model 3 went through some changes. The best change being the introduction of the Model 4. (I worked in Radio Shack Computer Centers fron two months after the announcement of the Model 3 until the death-throes of Tandy's Z-80 line -- all of my Tandy hardware has lower serial numbers than I would personally prefer). -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Mar 26 00:37:43 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: S/36 info References: <3.0.5.32.19980325131436.008ac640@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3519F7B6.87F9379C@bbtel.com> David Wollmann wrote: > At 12:15 PM 3/25/98 -0600, you wrote: > >What size disks does the IBM S/36 use and is this the same machine you > >refer to as a "System 36"?? I may have a whole batch of books and disks > >coming to me in the very near future and am curious if they may be of > >any value to anyone out in "pooter land". > The 5360 and 5362 use 8". The 5363 and 5364 (PC/36) use 5.25". > > If you get any development or unusual stuff I'd sure like a crack at it so > I could at least archive it to CD. I'm told that they are 5.25" but no description of what there is other than (and I quote) "a shit load of disks". I'll get them probably tommorow and dig into them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Mar 26 01:33:22 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Early computer serial numbers?? In-Reply-To: <3519ED40.B7B5306C@navix.net> from "Cord Coslor" at Mar 25, 98 09:53:05 pm Message-ID: <199803260733.XAA09795@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 632 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980325/0bc36a22/attachment.ksh From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Thu Mar 26 01:17:39 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Your www site Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980326011739.008ab100@pop3.webzone.net> >Date: 25 Mar 98 20:46:29 -0800 >Subject: Re: Your www site >From: "Steve Wozniak" >To: "David Wollmann" >X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 > >Dear Woz, > >Several on the Classic Computers mailing list have been asking about >you. >Someone listed your web site (http://www.woz.org/) and it looks to be >off >line. > >Wanna say hello to the list and tell them what you're up to these >days? The >scuttlebutt has it that you're teaching, we'd love to hear about it. > >Thanks > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion >for IBM >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > >That is the correct web site. Or http://woz.org or http://woz.com or >http://www.woz.com. Even a few more will work. Just type "woz" into >Netscape or Internet Explorer and they try adding "www" ond ".com". > >Steve >_________________________________ >Here's to the crazy ones. >The misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers. >The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things >differently. >They're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status >quo. >You can quote them. Disagree with them. Glorify or vilify them. >About the only thing you can't do is ignore them, because they change >things. >They push the human race forward. >And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. >Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the >world? >Are the ones who do. >_________________________________ > Steve Wozniak > 16400 Blackberry Hill Road > Los Gatos CA 95032 USA > 408.888.8889 408.354.8999 FAX >_________________________________ > www.woz.org steve@woz.org >_________________________________ >PGP Footprint 1D70 FF77 3046 B814 7420 4CB4 7DE4 535F 148C 6F43 > > > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann@ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 26 01:58:19 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Your www site In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980326011739.008ab100@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980326025819.00a4c100@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw David Wollmann typed: >>Date: 25 Mar 98 20:46:29 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Your www site >>From: "Steve Wozniak" ^^^^ Tho Apple Computers and I never quite saw eye to eye, this is still Mondo Kewl!!! ;-) >>Several on the Classic Computers mailing list have been asking about you. >>Someone listed your web site (http://www.woz.org/) and it looks to be off >>line. It is online (as per Nutscrape Version 3.0)... but... I'm here to tell ya, folks... It's a *biggie*!!! The site sent my Nutscrape runnin' over... as in 24+Megs RAM used, started diddlin' with my swapfile! I'm runnin' NT4.0/Cyrix 6x86/48Megs RAM, and the site sent my HD into OT. If yer browzin' with an AtariST, I don't recommend this site. Runnin' Win95 & 16Megs RAM? Take my advice. Turn off the grafix before you wander thataway. As always, YMMV & all that jazzzzz. See ya, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice. From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 26 02:44:17 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Your www site References: <3.0.3.32.19980326025819.00a4c100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <351A1561.F8DD80DC@cnct.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > It is online (as per Nutscrape Version 3.0)... but... > > I'm here to tell ya, folks... It's a *biggie*!!! The site sent my Nutscrape > runnin' over... as in 24+Megs RAM used, started diddlin' with my swapfile! > I'm runnin' NT4.0/Cyrix 6x86/48Megs RAM, and the site sent my HD into OT. > > If yer browzin' with an AtariST, I don't recommend this site. Runnin' Win95 > & 16Megs RAM? Take my advice. Turn off the grafix before you wander thataway. > > As always, YMMV & all that jazzzzz. Aside from the fact that I don't allow Java applets to run without permission, my little 32MB P166 running Netscrape 4 under Caldera Linux 1.1 has no problems with the site. No excessive swapping that I noticed (though admittedly Linux is much better behaved about memory management than NT at the worst of times). When I've got it set up, I'll try the site again with my 640k AT with DR-DOS and WebSpyder. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 26 03:31:51 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, David Mather wrote: > Well - it wasn't non-descript at the time! It had a full-size (80x25) LCD > display and WAS the first >truly< portable PC compatible - depending what > you meant by truly of course. Compaq and Olivetti (and Zenith?) > had luggable things compared to which the DG1 was extremely > elegant, especially with the rather smart beige/brown DG trim. At the > time it had "buy me" written all over it. Both HP and GRiD had similar >truly< portable PC's out before the DG/One. The HP 110 was battery-powered, so the DG/One doesn't even get the earlier distinction I gave it of being the first battery-powered clamshell. However, neither the GRiD nor the HP were 100% IBM compatible, so the DG/One may be the winner there. Here's a NEWSBYTE's blurb from the DG/One's intro: BIG SCREEN PORTABLE: 1984 September 25 (NB) -- Data General unveiled its first microcomputer to a Lincoln Center, New York audience (9/20). The major selling point to the 10-pound portable machine, dubbed the Data General/One, is its liquid crystal display. The LCD is the size of a standard monitor, displaying 25 lines of text at a time across 12 diagonal inches of monitor space. The second selling point is its ability to run a variety of operating systems: MS-DOS, UNIX and CP/M. The basic system, with 128K of RAM, has one disk drive but no built-in software, making it different from the competing HP Portable. The machine, with a traditionally power draining built-in drive, actually runs 8 hours without recharging, according to Data General. Still to be determined is how the mainframe computer company will retail the new $2,895 machine and its $525 tiny printer. Data General only has 200 U.S. distributors but has financed the portable computers in advance for new retailers. A D.G. spokesman says there will be several major computer store chains carrying the machine by the middle of 1985. One thing in the company's favor: it beat IBM to the punch. IBM's portable machine code-named "Clamshell" isn't going to be unveiled until 1985. -- Doug From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 26 03:33:53 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: FWIW: Data General One Laptop spotted for sale In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 26, 98 03:31:51 am Message-ID: <199803260933.EAA23764@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Doug Yowza once stated: > > On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, David Mather wrote: > > > Well - it wasn't non-descript at the time! It had a full-size (80x25) LCD > > display and WAS the first >truly< portable PC compatible - depending what > > you meant by truly of course. Compaq and Olivetti (and Zenith?) > > had luggable things compared to which the DG1 was extremely > > elegant, especially with the rather smart beige/brown DG trim. At the > > time it had "buy me" written all over it. > > Both HP and GRiD had similar >truly< portable PC's out before the DG/One. > The HP 110 was battery-powered, so the DG/One doesn't even get the earlier > distinction I gave it of being the first battery-powered clamshell. > However, neither the GRiD nor the HP were 100% IBM compatible, so the > DG/One may be the winner there. And it's not quite 100% IBM compatible as the serial ports are different. But it does support CGA graphics (320x200 4 color, 640x200 2 color) and it was expandable to 464K (approximately, I don't recall and I'm a bit lazy to look it up 8-P RAM and two 3.5" disks (internal). The screen is difficult to read, but for what I paid for mine ($0) it's been a great deal (and yes, I do use mine at least once a week). -spc (I just don't have the batteries for it though ... ) From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Mar 26 05:27:40 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Franklin ACE 500 In-Reply-To: <003301bd5866$227bf760$4d68420c@francois> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980326062740.00689f68@mail.wincom.net> At 09:20 PM 3/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, >I just acquired a Franklin ACE 500, unfortunately it came without the power >supply. Does anyone have info on the power connector and requirements. >Thanks >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon > Welcome to the club, I got one under the same conditions. I hope you get a reply. Regards Charlie Fox From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Mar 26 06:29:22 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Tektronix XD88 Unix box - help/info needed Message-ID: Hi all, I was given a Tektronix XD88/10 machine a few years ago that has sadly been sitting around gathering dust in the hope that I'd be able to find sufficient info/parts to fix it at some point - maybe someone on this list can help... When I got the machine I just had the main unit, and (amazingly, seeing how only a few of these seem to ever have been built) got hold of a keyboard for it. I haven't got the original monitor, but a Sun 16" display seems to work well enough. The disk was on its way out when I got hold of the machine, and from what I remember wouldn't even boot to single user mode last time I tried it. It's a 300MB Imprimis (Seagate) SCSI-1, so finding an exact or similar replacement shouldn't be too much trouble. The problem is the OS software - I don't have the tapes, and Tektronix stopped supporting the XD88's a few years ago (I heard from one guy in Australia who got an XD88 from a sale without OS, and Tektronix Aus. gave him the tapes for free which was rather nice - they took the line that they should be part of the machine anyway!) Second problem is mouse - the keyboard has a 9-pin *female* port on it for a mouse - anyone know pin-outs, what protocol was needed etc? Other than those two minor details, it works fine :) When I first got it it did boot to some sort of semi-working state; I seem to remember that the ethernet was working on it (I never tried the tape drive, I have a spare in case the one in it is broken though) Thanks for any help though, about time I got this thing going again!!! (Could still be a useful machine actually, it's got 16MB of main memory on it and 2MB for graphics memory) cheers, Jules From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Mar 26 06:37:04 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: TI calculator display Message-ID: > >> The problem is that I can't tell how to attach another ribbon to the >> LCD, and the circuit board end is surface mount soldered. Ideas? I suppose that you only need to find the cable that's broken and just jump that one, rather than replacing the whole lot. You may even be able to find the break, scratch off whatever coating is around the metal conductor, and solder across the break (Ok, so it never worked with Sinclair keyboard ribbons, but it might be possible here :) cheers Jules From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Mar 26 06:27:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends Message-ID: <199803261227.AA14962@world.std.com> Ithica Audio, some pretty neat systems. I used to call on them as an apps engineer back in 1980. I wouldn't mind finding one or at least the floppy controller as I had some influence in the design. <> I also found a National Semiconductor Board Level Computer (BLC). It's <> 8080A single-board computer from 1977. There's also an unpopulated RO <> board in the small card cage. I know zilch about this one. There are <> plenty of unconnected edge-connectors on the CPU board and an on-board <> 8251, so I assume I can make this one fly if I simply figure out the I/ <> connections and power requirements. IF it has two edge connectors it's multibus and it was made a few years later as National was not in the multibus market till 79-81ish. Allison From sinasohn at mail.crl.com Thu Mar 26 11:43:06 1998 From: sinasohn at mail.crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Fwd: For Sale Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980325163354.5bbfc56a@mail.crl.com> Received this message... Hope someone can help him out... >From: "Joe's Second e-mail" >Subject: For Sale > >While cleaning up my basement I found my Atari 800 with three memory cards, Bit 3 80 column card, original documentation, a game cartridge, BASIC cartridge, several joysticks, and a new floppy drive that was never plugged in (Bought a MAC). I did notice that the space bar was cracked, but it does work :-) > >I would like to sell it all off. Please pass this message to any interested party. > >Thank you in advance. > >Joe Kain >219-436-9966 >219-459-1120 Fax >kainjb@mysolution.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 26 12:24:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:59 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: <199803261227.AA14962@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Ithica Audio, some pretty neat systems. I used to call on them as an > apps engineer back in 1980. I wouldn't mind finding one or at least the > floppy controller as I had some influence in the design. Both the floppy and floppy controller are from Micropolis in my box. > IF it has two edge connectors it's multibus and it was made a few years > later as National was not in the multibus market till 79-81ish. The NS BLC has a 1977 coyright on the PCB. From the component side: P1 is the bottom left-most 86-pin (2-sided 43) connector and is plugged into the backplane. Both boards also have an unconnected 60-pin P2 on the bottom right. The CPU board also has 50-pin J1, 50-pin J2, and 26-pin J3 on the top of the card, presumably for I/O connections. It's a single-layer, two-sided board, so I should be able to trace the pins. Some of the chips are even labeled with their I/O address, so if I get it to come up, I might even be able to program the thing. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Thu Mar 26 12:40:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Haddock book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had looked for the Haddock Collector's book that somebody (Uncle Roger?) had mentioned and couldn't find it until recently: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/bookstore.html -- Doug From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Mar 26 16:04:58 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Accucard UPS-on-a-card Message-ID: <19980326220459.5469.qmail@hotmail.com> I bought this thing with all packaging and manuals. It's called the AccuCard, and is made by Emerson UPS. It fits into an 8-bit ISA slot, and goes between the power supply and motherboard in terms of power. If the power supply should turn off, the thing will keep the mother board on. It claims to save something to disk, but I don't know how it keeps the drives on. I don't think my power cable will reach, but I will try to install it, and report back. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 26 18:28:13 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980326182813.30477c74@intellistar.net> I picked up an external drive in a bunch of computer parts. Can anyone identify it? It looks like a Bernoulli or Syquest drive but is marked "AST Technologies" and "88 MB C". It's the same size as a Bernoulli Transportable drive and the cartridge looks like it is *almost* the same size as a Bernoulli 90 Mb (but it's not!) It has two 50 pin SCSI connectors on the back along with a socket for a power cord and two AC outlets. It included a SCSI cable that has a male DB-25 connctor on the other end. What kind of cartridge does this take? Is it worth bothering with? Joe From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Mar 26 17:36:51 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5402204790@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> SyQuest? > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:28 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive > > I picked up an external drive in a bunch of computer parts. Can anyone > identify it? It looks like a Bernoulli or Syquest drive but is marked "AST > Technologies" and "88 MB C". It's the same size as a Bernoulli > Transportable drive and the cartridge looks like it is *almost* the same > size as a Bernoulli 90 Mb (but it's not!) It has two 50 pin SCSI > connectors > on the back along with a socket for a power cord and two AC outlets. It > included a SCSI cable that has a male DB-25 connctor on the other end. > What kind of cartridge does this take? Is it worth bothering with? > > Joe From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Mar 26 12:58:22 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5402204790@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199803262351.SAA25066@mail.cgocable.net> > SyQuest? Can you see if you have a lever above the disk slot besides a button? Use of this drive goes like this: Insert the disk, move the lever to lock it in, to eject, poke that button, the lever will pop free, move it to push the cartidge out. When mounting or unmounting during after locking or ejecting the light slowly speeds up to rapid blinking then out, ready. :) That's SyQuest, nice HD type technology long as it's working!! Jason D. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:28 AM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive > > > > I picked up an external drive in a bunch of computer parts. Can anyone > > identify it? It looks like a Bernoulli or Syquest drive but is marked "AST > > Technologies" and "88 MB C". It's the same size as a Bernoulli > > Transportable drive and the cartridge looks like it is *almost* the same > > size as a Bernoulli 90 Mb (but it's not!) It has two 50 pin SCSI > > connectors > > on the back along with a socket for a power cord and two AC outlets. It > > included a SCSI cable that has a male DB-25 connctor on the other end. > > What kind of cartridge does this take? Is it worth bothering with? > > > > Joe > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From naamato at idrp.merit.net Thu Mar 26 18:08:57 1998 From: naamato at idrp.merit.net (Nick Amato) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: For Sale In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980325163354.5bbfc56a@mail.crl.com>; from Uncle Roger on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 11:43:06AM -0600 References: <3.0.16.19980325163354.5bbfc56a@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <19980326190857.51058@idrp.merit.net> > >Subject: For Sale > > > >While cleaning up my basement I found my Atari 800 with three memory > cards, Bit 3 80 column card, original documentation, a game cartridge, > BASIC cartridge, several joysticks, and a new floppy drive that was never > plugged in (Bought a MAC). I did notice that the space bar was cracked, but > it does work :-) > > > >I would like to sell it all off. Please pass this message to any > interested party. Do you still have it? :-) Nick naamato@merit.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 26 11:23:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 25, 98 09:33:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980326/8dd1a64d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 26 12:24:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 26, 98 12:24:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1327 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980326/b3633391/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 26 21:27:00 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive In-Reply-To: <199803262351.SAA25066@mail.cgocable.net> References: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5402204790@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980326212700.70f7192a@intellistar.net> Jason, That sounds like it except the lever and slot are below the disk slot. Any idea where I can get disks for it and what they cost? Thanks, Joe At 06:58 PM 3/26/98 +0000, you wrote: >> SyQuest? >Can you see if you have a lever above the disk slot besides a button? >Use of this drive goes like this: Insert the disk, move the lever to >lock it in, to eject, poke that button, the lever will pop free, move >it to push the cartidge out. > >When mounting or unmounting during after locking or ejecting the >light slowly speeds up to rapid blinking then out, ready. :) > >That's SyQuest, nice HD type technology long as it's working!! > >Jason D. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] >> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:28 AM >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> > Subject: What is this? AST 88 Mb drive >> > >> > I picked up an external drive in a bunch of computer parts. Can anyone >> > identify it? It looks like a Bernoulli or Syquest drive but is marked "AST >> > Technologies" and "88 MB C". It's the same size as a Bernoulli >> > Transportable drive and the cartridge looks like it is *almost* the same >> > size as a Bernoulli 90 Mb (but it's not!) It has two 50 pin SCSI >> > connectors >> > on the back along with a socket for a power cord and two AC outlets. It >> > included a SCSI cable that has a male DB-25 connctor on the other end. >> > What kind of cartridge does this take? Is it worth bothering with? >> > >> > Joe >> >> >email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca >Pero, Jason D. > From revcom at ruraltel.net Thu Mar 26 21:21:33 1998 From: revcom at ruraltel.net (Rodney Hogg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX-80 Message-ID: <351B1B3C.4459@ruraltel.net> Hello, I'm enjoying the demographics thread for Mar '98. Followed for some time. None of the collections seem to mention a Sinclair ZX-80. I had/have the 4k ROM version, then upgraded to the 8k ROM. "The Monitor Exposed" (I forget the excellent author's name) was and is my kernel in computer science, which is how I now make a modest living. Timex came out with a Sinclair-based machine, too. The Timex 1000, I think. It had more RAM. Both had an expansion port for RAM They ran on a Z80 MPU (Thanks to Rodney Zak! I know my Z80 stuff). There was a magazine called Sync. It had a "alternative" look to the cover. My collection is based on computers with which I've had person experiences. So far, I'm missing some Apples (which shouldn't be hard to find if I get to cities) and a PDP-11/70, which I probably couldn't get to work if I had one. --J. Lynn Hogg jhogg@bigfoot.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 26 22:36:47 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: ZX-81 Re: Sinclair ZX-80 In-Reply-To: <351B1B3C.4459@ruraltel.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980326223647.24efef90@intellistar.net> Hi Lynn, Timex 1000s are EASY to find! I've passed up dozens of them at yard sales. I have four that I ended up with for one reason or another. BTW I found a ZX-81 the other day. Is anyone familar with it? What's the difference between it and a ZX-80? Joe At 09:21 PM 3/26/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hello, > >I'm enjoying the demographics thread for Mar '98. Followed for some >time. > >None of the collections seem to mention a Sinclair ZX-80. I had/have >the 4k ROM version, then upgraded to the 8k ROM. "The Monitor Exposed" >(I forget the excellent author's name) was and is my kernel in computer >science, which is how I now make a modest living. > >Timex came out with a Sinclair-based machine, too. The Timex 1000, I >think. It had more RAM. Both had an expansion port for RAM They ran >on a Z80 MPU (Thanks to Rodney Zak! I know my Z80 stuff). > >There was a magazine called Sync. It had a "alternative" look to the >cover. > >My collection is based on computers with which I've had person >experiences. So far, I'm missing some Apples (which shouldn't be hard >to find if I get to cities) and a PDP-11/70, which I probably couldn't >get to work if I had one. > >--J. Lynn Hogg > >jhogg@bigfoot.com > > From jruschme at exit109.com Thu Mar 26 21:52:20 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: ZX-81 Re: Sinclair ZX-80 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980326223647.24efef90@intellistar.net> from Joe at "Mar 26, 98 10:36:47 pm" Message-ID: <199803270352.WAA01539@crobin.home.org> > Hi Lynn, > > Timex 1000s are EASY to find! I've passed up dozens of them at yard > sales. I have four that I ended up with for one reason or another. BTW > I found a ZX-81 the other day. Is anyone familar with it? What's the > difference between it and a ZX-80? The ZX-81 is basically a ZX-80 with an enhanced ROM and some extra circuitry which let it display while computing (SLOW mode). The TS-1000 is a ZX-81 with 2K of RAM instead of 1K. <<>> From marvin at rain.org Thu Mar 26 22:42:01 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: New acquisitions References: <3.0.1.16.19980326223647.24efef90@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <351B2E19.64ACDD3@rain.org> Just a quick note on a few computers I've picked up in the past week or so. A friend of mine gave me a Televideo computer that a client of his wanted to get rid of. I lucked out when another friend of mine started to clean out his garage and knew who to call. That deal included an NEC 8201A, a clone lunchbox portable with LCD screen, a Datavue 25 portable, a couple of new Irwin tape drives, some original Osborne software, and some Apple III boards and stuff. The week before, another friend gave me a Timex 1000 w/ power supply. Last night, another friend gave me the rack he had used to house his BBS (minus the CompuPro computers), 3 Silent 700 printers (one with acoustical coupler), and a couple of Televideo terminals. Saturday is TRW and I hope to pick up more of the older boards (S-100 and multibus) at $1 each. I found a salvage dealer who says he has S-100 cards, but hasn't told me yet what he wants for them. The last time he had some, he wanted $5 each for them, but there were some IMSAI SIO boards in there, and that was probably worth what he was asking. BTW, I should say that all the computers, boards, and printers were free (with the exception of the TRW stuff.) It is out there if you keep your name in the limelight as someone looking for this stuff! Good luck all! From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 27 01:44:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > At a guess, the 50 pin ones are parallel I/O ports and the 26 pin one is a > serial port (you mentioned the 8251, which is a USART chip). Try tracing > grounds and then signals (maybe to 1488's and 1489's)- you may find that a > straight IDC cable will link the 26 pin connector to a 25 pin serial port. > Don't plug it in without checking, though. Your guesses seem correct about the function of the connectors, but I'm not so sure about the mapping of the 26-pin connector -- they seem like they might be reversed from what I would expect. Here are a few I buzzed: 26 - gnd 25 - transistor Q1 24 - 1488.1 (Vee) 14 - 1489.4 (2A) 13 - 1488.2 (1A), 1489.14 (Vcc) 5 - 1488.6 (2Y) 4 - N/C 3 - 1489.13 (4A) 2 - N/C This means very little to me, other than I vaguely recall that the 1488 and 1489 are drivers (and I found a pin-out for them on the web), and I expect ground, TX, and RX on the first three pins. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 27 01:56:25 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: NS BLC (was Re: Ithaca Audio and friends) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: BTW, this other card in the small cage with the BLC that says 16K/32K ROM/PROM appears to be a PROM programmer. It's got a program/read switch. Of course, I have no idea how to use it, but assuming I figure it out someday, will this thing program some ancient 1702's I've got? -- Doug From jthiemann at castleton.com Fri Mar 27 08:08:19 1998 From: jthiemann at castleton.com (Joe Thiemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: ZX-81 Re: Sinclair ZX-80 Message-ID: <958FC1081935D11187A800A0C9653121235EF0@dino.castleton.com> To implement the "slow" mode, the ZX81 has the NMI line connected to something or other. I have one Timex 1000 and a ZX81, the difference being 1k (1k in the ZX81, 2k in the Timex) but of course, everyone "has" to have one of the wobbly 16k packs! For those interested, you can roll your own ZX80, thanks to the lack of custom chips! (That's right - Z80, RAM, ROM, and a handfull of TTL chips...) Schematics and ROM images (also for ZX81) are at http://www.babytalk.demon.co.uk/zx80/zx80.html -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Ruschmeyer [SMTP:jruschme@exit109.com] > Sent: March 26, 1998 22:52 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: ZX-81 Re: Sinclair ZX-80 > > > Hi Lynn, > > > > Timex 1000s are EASY to find! I've passed up dozens of them at > yard > > sales. I have four that I ended up with for one reason or another. > BTW > > I found a ZX-81 the other day. Is anyone familar with it? What's > the > > difference between it and a ZX-80? > > The ZX-81 is basically a ZX-80 with an enhanced ROM and some extra > circuitry > which let it display while computing (SLOW mode). > > The TS-1000 is a ZX-81 with 2K of RAM instead of 1K. > > <<>> From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Mar 27 14:22:33 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: More Proof that Intel is Backwards. Message-ID: <13343090014.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> God, I hate Intel... Playing with PDP-11 assembly. Did x86 assemble before. X86 move: MOV Destination,Soure Everything else move: MOV Source, Destination Just spent 20 minutes trying to find out why "MOV SP,#1600" caused a stackfault every time... (SP goes negative on a push, as 1600/ 0) Intel is Backwards... ------- From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Fri Mar 27 16:27:38 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: More Proof that Intel is Backwards. Message-ID: <000b01bd59cf$942d48e0$1f6e0181@fauradon> So what's new? -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 2:25 PM Subject: More Proof that Intel is Backwards. >God, I hate Intel... >Playing with PDP-11 assembly. Did x86 assemble before. > >X86 move: MOV Destination,Soure >Everything else move: MOV Source, Destination > >Just spent 20 minutes trying to find out why "MOV SP,#1600" >caused a stackfault every time... (SP goes negative on a push, as 1600/ 0) > >Intel is Backwards... >------- From szewczykm at hcgi.com Fri Mar 27 16:52:31 1998 From: szewczykm at hcgi.com (Mike Szewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Pinouts, Schematics, Oh Boy - Also:Dead Message-ID: The other day I picked up a Commodore 128D. [Along with a Timex Sinclaire 1000 with some sort of module hanging off of it that I'm not sure about, Also a Commodore 1541 Floppy all for $25 at a Pawn Shop) Anyhow, I plugged in the C128 and I get only a black screen. I checked the fuses and notice one had been blown. I replaced it and still only had a black screen and a newly blown fuse. I'm going to do some checks on the power supply to see if I can fix the fuse blowing and hopefully the black screen. I also have picked up an Atari 520ST with the external floppy drive - no power supplies or cables. My thinking is that I can always build those if I need to. What all of this is leading to is - Does anyone know of any good resources for pinouts, schematics, etc on the old PC's? Also, does the black screen on the C128D ring any bells for anyone? Thanks! Mike From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 27 17:07:52 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Pinouts, Schematics, Oh Boy - Also:Dead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Mike Szewczyk wrote: > I also have picked up an Atari 520ST with the external floppy drive - no > power supplies or cables. My thinking is that I can always build those > if I need to. What all of this is leading to is - Does anyone know of > any good resources for pinouts, schematics, etc on the old PC's? Also, > does the black screen on the C128D ring any bells for anyone? Schematics for C128: http://nic.funet.fi/pub/doc/hardware/c64/misc/schematics/c128/index.html -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 27 10:05:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: ZX-81 Re: Sinclair ZX-80 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980326223647.24efef90@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 26, 98 10:36:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980327/3dcf172c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 27 11:02:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Mar 27, 98 01:44:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2676 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980327/f4f97a6b/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Fri Mar 27 18:31:51 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A80C35E2@mail.simconv.com> > > Your guesses seem correct about the function of the > connectors, but I'm > > not so sure about the mapping of the 26-pin connector -- > they seem like > > they might be reversed from what I would expect. Here are > a few I buzzed: The 1488 and 1489 are level shifters (+/-12Vdc to/from +5Vdc) for an RS-232 interface. This is consistent with an RS-232 port. Remember, the 26 pin connector will be wired to match whatever serial cable came with the board, they aren't all the same. Jack From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Mar 27 20:48:29 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Diamond Trackstar e Apple-in-a-PC board Message-ID: <005801bd59f6$8f6f39e0$c3a9fea9@office1> Hello, all: I received today a Diamond Computer Systems Trackstar e pple ][ emulator board for my PC. Does anyone have any instructions for this thing?? Thanks again. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Mar 27 22:47:00 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: FW: Tim or Allison? Can you help out? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980327204700.00e50d60@mail.jps.net> Although directed at Tim or Allison (as the two other DEC-savvy folk on here), this one's wide open. I got the attached E-mail from a visitor to my web site. Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with the hardware he's gotten hold of. Can someone else get in touch with him and give him a nudge in the right direction? Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >From: MHarvey863 >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:32:25 EST >To: kyrrin@jps.net >Subject: Please help me >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 161 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dry.jps.net id TAA11206 > >Hi there. > >I need to beg for help. My department at university has just offloaded its >junk on me & I've got half a dozen VAXstation 2000's, a VAXServer 3550 and a >MicroVAX 3500. Your's is the only site that gives refernce to any of these and >Digital wanted to charge me ?100 before they'ed even give me the time of day. > >Can you help me with any VAX info or machine info. I believe they all work, >but the only compatible monitor I had blew up just before I aquired them. I've >got the odd three-way cable to connect the mouse, keyboard & monitor and I >would ideally like to restore the client/server setup that they were in before >they were junked. > >Thanks very much > >Matt Harvey > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Mar 27 22:52:24 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz Message-ID: <351C8208.50C0B58D@halcyon.com> I found an IBM PC/AT (for spare parts for another recently acquired one) with a small card placed in between one power supply lead to the motherboard. It also has a lead clipped to the motherboard, presumably to insert modified clock frequency to the 286. On the board it says "Megahertz Corp (c) 1986 286-2 REV 4". The board bolts to the back of the chassis and has one button (reset) and two switches (6MHz-Turbo and rotary 8-9-10-11-12). Obviously this is meant to over clock the 286, with the rotary switch allowing increasing the clock frequency until the 286 fails. So, this suggests these questions: 1) Does this really work? I thought you couldn't over clock a true AT? (This particular motherboard is a "256/512 K System Board" with piggy-backed RAM chips. It has lots of "ECOs" on the pin side of the board. I don't know if my other one does, too. Note: ECO = Engineering Change Order.) 2) Would increasing the 286-6 to a 286-8,10,12 increase the frequency at which it could reliably run? I have a PGA 286-8, but I'm not sure there are faster PGA 286s? 3) Any software needed? (The ROMs appear to be the same as on my other machine.) Thanks for any information anyone can shed on this. Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Mar 27 23:22:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz Message-ID: <199803280522.AA29558@world.std.com> Message-ID: <000001bd5a0a$fbe98580$64ac31cf@jaks686.simconv.com> David C. Jenner wrote: > > 1) Does this really work? I thought you couldn't > over clock a true AT? It varies, most ATs can run at 8Mhz (mine does, with a JET 386 adapter board). I know a few actually did go up to 10, maybe 12 if you got the one in a million. Mine won't run at 9 Mhz. > 2) Would increasing the 286-6 to a 286-8,10,12 > increase the frequency > at which it could reliably run? I have a PGA > 286-8, but I'm not > sure there are faster PGA 286s? I think there were 80286's made all the way up to 20Mhz (the AMD ones). You can also put in an adapter card to upgrade to a 386. I have an '86 vintage AT that has the 386 adapter, then I also upgraded the 386 to a surplus Cyrix 486DR2 (clock doubled), so I get an effective 16Mhz with a 486 instruction set. I think it's a bit faster than a 386SX-16, mostly from the cache on the Cyrix CPU. > > 3) Any software needed? (The ROMs appear to be the > same as on my other > machine.) The IBM ROM ran with the 8Mhz speedup. When I went to the Cx486 I replaced it with an MRBIOS ROM (but I still have the original). Jack Peacock From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Mar 27 18:48:27 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz In-Reply-To: <199803280522.AA29558@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199803280541.AAA04304@mail.cgocable.net> > Overclocking another retrorevionistpc idea. Heh...just for fun value usually. > > No most likely it allowed you to buy the fastest 286 and clock it at it's > native speed. Right, that is best way. What I would do: find a PLCC socket and a spare 286 12mhz CPU and plug them all in. Did that either way on same pinout of either PGA oe PLCC packages. I liked especially Harris C286 chips. Runs very cold even at full power. :) Simens is HOTTEST, ow! > < piggy-backed RAM chips. It has lots of "ECOs" on the pin side of > < the board. I don't know if my other one does, too. Note: ECO = > < Engineering Change Order.) > > The AT might go a little faster, at some point the DRAM timing goes flakey > and otehr things start to get cranky. > > That's especially true of the ISA cards! There was changes to bios to block o/c and that is why this device went around this either by manual after post test or automatic. Start up the machine at normal mhz, after post, crank up the clock rate. NOT really! the 14.38181mhz thingy take care of DMA, irq's and ISA. In newer boards some changes the clock rate on the ISA by that area also that o/c the whole ISA shebang. But the problem is with 2 specific chips that splits the clock feeds sometimes are rated at specific clock rate. > > <2) Would increasing the 286-6 to a 286-8,10,12 increase the frequency > < at which it could reliably run? I have a PGA 286-8, but I'm not > < sure there are faster PGA 286s? > > There are it went all the way to 12 or 16mhz. I have a LCC version thats > 12 and the PS/2m50s I have are 10mhz. > > <3) Any software needed? (The ROMs appear to be the same as on my other > < machine.) > > None but the rams may get unhappy of pushed to fast (data takes time to > get out). Simply: change out those ram with lower nS rating using 256K x 1 chips for either type 1 or 2 motherboard. I did that for fun! I preferred AT type 2 for compactness and low wait states, plug either 100ns or 80ns ram, change cpu for 12mhz and watch the operation. Someting might go cranky or you get a bit faster machine but not by long shot. That is why I prefer Model 50Z for no o/c required total package and well tuned performance even I did not own one YET. I have a 286 12 motherboard 1' square clone that feels like type 1 8mhz board even with fast ram. YUK. Jason D. PS: I wondered why I got a dud 286-8 cpu by IBM when I was given boxful of junk parts. Don't think it was by o/c but CPU failures how rare that are! :) > > Allison email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 27 23:55:08 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Ithaca Audio and friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Unfortunately, I don't have an A/C cord that fits the three-prong (center > > round) connector. I hope it's not trying to tell me that it wants a > > voltage other than 110V, is it? > > That connector was used on a lot of HP stuff in the 1960's/1970's, on the > Intellec 8i, and probably a lot of other stuff. I went to three different places that carried old test equipment before I finally found one. Ithaca lives! She comes up with a Z80 ROM monitor that happily talks to me at 1200 baud. I can dump memory and registers, and best of all, I can boot from the floppy drive. The only disk I have contains Micropolis BASIC. Now I'm off to the CP/M archives to see if I can find her a proper O/S. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Fri Mar 27 23:58:57 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz In-Reply-To: <351C8208.50C0B58D@halcyon.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, David C. Jenner wrote: > I found an IBM PC/AT (for spare parts for another recently acquired one) > with a small card placed in between one power supply lead to the > motherboard. It also has a lead clipped to the motherboard, presumably > to insert modified clock frequency to the 286. > > On the board it says "Megahertz Corp (c) 1986 286-2 REV 4". The board > bolts to the back of the chassis and has one button (reset) and two > switches (6MHz-Turbo and rotary 8-9-10-11-12). I had always wondered why Megahertz, who I only knew as a modem company, would chose such a name -- now I know. -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Mar 27 23:58:58 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa Message-ID: <010501bd5a0e$9b1c3140$25f438cb@nostromo> Just how scarce are these machines? I have the opportunity to snare a significant number with software and accessories, shrinkwrapped. A From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 28 00:20:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa In-Reply-To: <010501bd5a0e$9b1c3140$25f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > Just how scarce are these machines? > I have the opportunity to snare a significant number with software and > accessories, shrinkwrapped. Are they Lisa 1's or Lisa 2's (aka Mac XL)? I see a bunch of the 2's, but I can't remember seeing an original Lisa since just after they came out. About 11,000 Lisa 1's were made according to the Lisa FAQ: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/faq.htm -- Doug From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Mar 28 03:57:12 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: PC Portables History Article Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980327185309.3fafdbea@ricochet.net> The March '98 issue of PC Portables has an article on the history of Portable computers. And if yer wondering, yep, that's me being quoted in there. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Mar 28 03:57:16 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: HMR Haul Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980328000737.3fafcf5e@ricochet.net> For them in the Bay area, I want to reiterate that HMR USA is worth a visit. And good news -- They're going to be open on Saturdays. They're going to be open M-Th for businesses only, and Friday and Saturday for individuals. They've got a new web site as well: (with no hyphen.) Anyway, I was there, and picked up: AST PenExec (aka GRiD 2260/2270) * Zenith ZFL-181-93 * Toshiba T1100Plus Toshiba T3100e/40 Toshiba T5200/100 (2) Toshiba T5200 NEC MultiSpeed NEC MultiSpeed EL NEC MultiSpeed HD Tandy 1400LT * Halikan LA5040 * IBM PS/2 L40SX * Epson Equity LT Generic "Portable PCIII" Lunchbox Generic (different) "Portable 286" Lunchbox Those marked with a * are ones I need info on the power supply requirements, especially the PenExec, which uses the same kind of connector as a Mac Serial cable, the IBM L40SX, and the Halikan which has a male 5-pin DIN connector. Also, one of the front hinges/supports on the PenExec is broken. Do y'all think it's okay to just super-glue or epoxy it? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 28 07:00:22 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Diamond Trackstar e Apple-in-a-PC board Message-ID: <006701bd5a49$791d07a0$e987440c@kroma-i> > I received today a Diamond Computer Systems Trackstar e >Apple ][ emulator board for my PC. Does anyone have any instructions for this >thing?? > Yes. I email them to you separately. -- Kirk From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 28 08:22:58 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz In-Reply-To: <199803280522.AA29558@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 28, 98 00:22:50 am Message-ID: <199803281422.JAA26650@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > Overclocking another retrorevionistpc idea. > > No most likely it allowed you to buy the fastest 286 and clock it at it's > native speed. > > <1) Does this really work? I thought you couldn't over clock a true AT? > < (This particular motherboard is a "256/512 K System Board" with > < piggy-backed RAM chips. It has lots of "ECOs" on the pin side of > < the board. I don't know if my other one does, too. Note: ECO = > < Engineering Change Order.) Nah. It was done all the time on the original AT's which went from 6mhz to 8 in seconds. However, IBM hacked up the new (8mhz model roms) to stop this from happening. So, while IBM had 8mhz AT's until Microchannel the clones ran up to 20Mhz 286's. (Which beat early 386 16's at raw dos speed). > > The AT might go a little faster, at some point the DRAM timing goes flakey > and otehr things start to get cranky. > > That's especially true of the ISA cards! > > <2) Would increasing the 286-6 to a 286-8,10,12 increase the frequency > < at which it could reliably run? I have a PGA 286-8, but I'm not > < sure there are faster PGA 286s? > > There are it went all the way to 12 or 16mhz. I have a LCC version thats > 12 and the PS/2m50s I have are 10mhz. > > <3) Any software needed? (The ROMs appear to be the same as on my other > < machine.) > > None but the rams may get unhappy of pushed to fast (data takes time to > get out). > > Allison > > Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From van at wired.com Sat Mar 28 09:09:07 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa In-Reply-To: <010501bd5a0e$9b1c3140$25f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: >>Just how scarce are these machines? >>I have the opportunity to snare a significant number with software and >>accessories, shrinkwrapped. >>A >Are they Lisa 1's or Lisa 2's (aka Mac XL)? I see a bunch of the 2's, but >I can't remember seeing an original Lisa since just after they came out. >About 11,000 Lisa 1's were made according to the Lisa FAQ: > http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/faq.htm > >-- Doug If you've scored some Lisa 1's Hey there Andrew... So what model is it that you have here? van ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 28 10:52:07 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz Message-ID: In a message dated 98-03-28 09:24:11 EST, you write: << > <1) Does this really work? I thought you couldn't over clock a true AT? > < (This particular motherboard is a "256/512 K System Board" with > < piggy-backed RAM chips. It has lots of "ECOs" on the pin side of > < the board. I don't know if my other one does, too. Note: ECO = > < Engineering Change Order.) >> its my understanding that the original AT bios dated ~1984 would work ok if the machine was overclocked. later versions of the AT bios were fixed so overclocking will give you a post failure for your efforts. of course, my type 1 AT had an aftermarket bios so i didnt have that problem, and i could also specify custom drive types. david From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 28 10:58:16 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa In-Reply-To: References: <010501bd5a0e$9b1c3140$25f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980328085816.00fcfcb0@pop.batnet.com> At 07:09 3/28/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>Just how scarce are these machines? >>>I have the opportunity to snare a significant number with software and >>>accessories, shrinkwrapped. Get 'em if you have a place to put 'em. In the US now a good clean Lisa 2 or Mac XL goes for US$300 to $500, a Lisa One is up to mid-four figures at least -- I know one guy who wanted US$5,000 just for a pair of working Twiggy drives -- and they're going up. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Sat Mar 28 10:54:48 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: 286 Overclocking In-Reply-To: <199803281422.JAA26650@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199803280522.AA29558@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980328085448.00f6c500@pop.batnet.com> In the summer of '86 I bought two 286 clones -- one for me, one for spouse -- from Rose Hill Systems in Scotts Valley, CA. These were 8MHz, 1 MB RAM, 20 MB disk, 5.25 HD floppy, and 14" Quimax green-screens. The total bill should have been $5,130 but the vendor discounted it to $5,000 flat. The vendor himself gave me, in a Ziploc, the xtals to overclock these pups to 10MHz, at which speed the base computers worked flawlessly. The 2MB AST RAMpage card I installed in mine went flaky at the higher speed, and AST said that fitting the new ROMs was a factory job; rather than pay AST's price I sold the card and bought an Everex equivalent which handled 10MHz with a shrug. These were the machines that convinced me, my wife, and everyone who saw them that clones were the wave of the future. We later sold one, but the case of the other is still here with a running computer in it. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Mar 28 11:33:19 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: FW: VAXen wanted Message-ID: <35203429.1931137248@mail.jps.net> If anyone can help this fellow out, please reply directly. Besides looking for a VAXStation or similar, he also has some MVII boards available. -=-=- -=-=- From: mrbill@texas.net (Bill Bradford) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: WTB: Older VAXstation or entry-level Alpha Reply-To: mrbill@texas.net Message-Id: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Lines: 29 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:48:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.207.0.39 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:48:55 CST Path: blushng.jps.net!nntp.snfc21.pbi.net!news.pbi.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!nntp.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail If you've got an old VAX system (VAXstation, etc) sitting around in your closet, I'm interested - I want to get a VMS box up and running here at home. Alternatively, I'm looking for an AXPpci33 motherboard and CPU to run AlphaLinux on. I was given a MicroVAX II about a year ago, but the system arrived in beat-up-and-unusable condition without drives. I ended up giving the chassis away, after stripping out all the cards, adapters, and various serial ports, etc. I still have all of that stuff in a box if anyone is interested. In fact, I'll give them free to anyone in the Austin or San Antonio area if you want to come pick them up. I can be reached at mrbill@texas.net. Bill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j

s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 28 08:25:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: RX01 drive alignment Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 991 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980328/4f20971f/attachment.ksh From circuitsurgeon at fwi.com Sat Mar 28 11:39:10 1998 From: circuitsurgeon at fwi.com (Gil Jasmin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: FW: VAXen wanted References: <35203429.1931137248@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <351D35BE.617C@fwi.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > > If anyone can help this fellow out, please reply directly. Besides > looking for a VAXStation or similar, he also has some MVII boards > available. > > -=-=- -=-=- > > From: mrbill@texas.net (Bill Bradford) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec > Subject: WTB: Older VAXstation or entry-level Alpha > Reply-To: mrbill@texas.net > Message-Id: > X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) > Lines: 29 > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:48:55 GMT > NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.207.0.39 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:48:55 CST > Path: > blushng.jps.net!nntp.snfc21.pbi.net!news.pbi.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!nntp.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > > If you've got an old VAX system (VAXstation, etc) sitting around in > your closet, I'm interested - I want to get a VMS box up and running > here at home. Alternatively, I'm looking for an AXPpci33 motherboard > and CPU to run AlphaLinux on. > > I was given a MicroVAX II about a year ago, but the system arrived in > beat-up-and-unusable condition without drives. I ended up giving the > chassis away, after stripping out all the cards, adapters, and various > serial ports, etc. I still have all of that stuff in a box if anyone > is interested. In fact, I'll give them free to anyone in the Austin > or San Antonio area if you want to come pick them up. > > I can be reached at mrbill@texas.net. > > Bill > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, SysOp, > The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) > kyrrin {at} j

s d[o]t n=e=t > "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe > an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly > define any of them!..." Hey VAXMAN to the rescue... I have several models of the VS3100's also the VLC4000 model and if you want the 3500 I have it too. I think I can help you out. Gil -- Live Long and Prosper Gil Jasmin 313 w. Paulding Rd. Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46807-3428 Please included a note, Thanks. http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon/neonking.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 28 08:43:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: HMR Haul In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980328000737.3fafcf5e@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Mar 28, 98 03:57:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980328/5669e280/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Mar 28 12:48:43 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: Speaking of Ithaca Audio... Message-ID: <351d45a3.4319120@hoser> Does anyone know where I can find a picture and/or specifications on Ithaca Intersystems products? Specifically, a circa 1980 microcomputer? I've searched the web a lot, and have come up empty. -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 28 09:04:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:00 2005 Subject: True Blue PC/AT Turbo board by Megahertz In-Reply-To: <199803280541.AAA04304@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Mar 28, 98 00:48:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1502 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980328/5aa0b35f/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 28 13:57:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: HMR Haul In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980328000737.3fafcf5e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > For them in the Bay area, I want to reiterate that HMR USA is worth a > visit. And good news -- They're going to be open on Saturdays. They're > going to be open M-Th for businesses only, and Friday and Saturday for > individuals. They've got a new web site as well: > (with no hyphen.) They don't seem to go out of their way to tell you their location. Where are they? > Toshiba T5200/100 (2) > Toshiba T5200 Wow, that's 75 lbs of Toshibas! Let me know if you figure out how to get to the CMOS battery. There's a weird little compartment with a pull-tab that looks like a good candidate, but it doesn't want to open (easily) for me. > Those marked with a * are ones I need info on the power supply > requirements, especially the PenExec, which uses the same kind of connector PenExec power pin-out (excuse the bad art): 6 7 8 3 4 5 1 2 1 - ground 2 - external power 3 - ground 4 - battery charge enable (active low) 5 - external power 6 - battery positive current sense voltage 7 - battery negative current sense voltage 8 - battery rapid charge status (active low) The power supply is labeled 8 - 16V @ 2A. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 28 14:34:40 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Olivetti M15 and friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found a couple of cool cheap toys today: a 1977 SSM (Solid State Music) S-100 video card and an Olivetti M15 laptop ($5 each). The M15 works great and has a prototype sticker on it (S/N 00075) - I know this model made it into production, but I can't find much info on it. Does anybody have a production date and numbers for it? Circa 1985 is my guess. I left behind a funky Kurtzweil 8-bit PC Card. I remember Kurtzweil as being very innovative in both electronic music and voice recognition, and I assume this card was for voice recognition. It had their own custom processor on the card (I've already forgotten the name) and it was made after the acquisition by Xerox. Should I go back and pay the $10 for it? -- Doug From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Sat Mar 28 14:53:32 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Olivetti M15 and friends In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980328145332.008b0310@pop3.webzone.net> At 02:34 PM 3/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >The M15 works >great and has a prototype sticker on it (S/N 00075) - I know this model >made it into production, but I can't find much info on it. Does anybody >have a production date and numbers for it? Circa 1985 is my guess. Olivetti M15 (donated by Monique Pellaton) Microprocessor - Intel i80C88 Memory - 512 Kb RAM Video (Text) - 80/25 or 40/25 chars Video (Graphics) - 640/200 dots Disk drives - 2 x 3 1/2" 720 Kb From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 28 16:22:25 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Speaking of Ithaca Audio... In-Reply-To: <351d45a3.4319120@hoser> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980328162225.006c3a20@pop3.concentric.net> a picture of model DPA-1 is on page 90 of Dr. Haddock's book along with a brief description of it. used a Zilog Z-80 running at 4 mhz came out in fall of 1979. Had 20 expansion slots and ran Pascal. Hope this helps John At 06:48 PM 3/28/98 GMT, you wrote: >Does anyone know where I can find a picture and/or specifications on >Ithaca Intersystems products? Specifically, a circa 1980 >microcomputer? I've searched the web a lot, and have come up empty. > -Bill Richman > bill_r@inetnebr.com > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) > > From Mzthompson at aol.com Sat Mar 28 18:55:53 1998 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Mikbug info? Message-ID: <95152456.351d9c1b@aol.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: >>From very nearly the first day I bumped into a computer, I've >>been finding sporadic references to MIKBUG, an early monitor >>ROM for 6800 machines. For instance, most of the older 6800 >>monitor ROMs (SWTBUG, SMARTBUG, others?) claim preserve MIKBUG >>entry points. And a lot of the programs in Motorola's ancient >>6800 freeware archive refer to it. (That archive can be found >>at this URL: http://www.mcu.motsps.com/freeweb/pub/usergroup) >>But I've never seen one, or any any real documentation for >>one. Can anybody out there help me find any of this stuff? >>Of course I'd be happiest to find a binary image, source code, >>and whatever docs originally came with it. But I'll take >>whatever I can get. As it is now, the best I can do is to >>extract some of its defined entry points from definitions >>in those freeware programs. >> >> Thanks! >> Bill. allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: >Same here. I have a M6800D1 and MIKBUG but no source listing. The >function is a very simple program loader/debugger. What was interesting >is the code was written so that routines like TTYin, TTYout, PRINTCHR >and PRINTnum could be called from external programs. Saving some coding >effort. >Allison The first computer I built was a 6800 SS50 bus machine. Of course I wanted to maintain compatiblity with MIKBUG. So I requested from Motorola their Engineering Note 100 titled: MCM6830L7 MIKBUG/MINIBUG ROM And the good news is that I still have the Engineering Note. The first 10 pages describes a little hardware, address decoding and address spaces used. The next 8 pages is a full assembly source listing for MIKBUG. The next 4 pages is the listing for MINIBUG. MIKBUG occupied 512 bytes starting at address E000, it used 128 bytes of ram starting at A000 for scratchpad and the stack, and a PIA at address 8000 for serial interface to a terminal. I rewrote the code to move the I/O bus from 8000 to F400, and the ram from A000 to F000. With the original addressing scheme there was only room for 32K on contigous memory, AND WHO WOULD EVER NEED MORE THAN 32K :) I recoded so that I could have 48K of ram and 12K of Eprom. I also recoded it to use a parallel keyboard interface and to drive a Percom video board. Terminals were not cheap then. I later obtained a hex dump listing of a disassembler. Given the custom of always using the standard MIKBUG entry points, I was able to figure enough about the disassembler to have it disassemble itself and later to disassemble an assembler. Given that info I rewrote both the disassembler and the assembler and then later assembled a disk operating system from a source listing published by some company that had one copy of the book left when I called and ordered it. The DOS was called CP/68, not to be confused with CPM/68, although CP/68 appears to have had its roots in CPM. And now here it is years later and I don't even know how many computers I've got, but I always look back at the time and effort that I put into that first machine. I sometimes feel I put more into it than I got back in terms of doing some productive, but then again what I learned from that has proved worthwhile time and time again. I know that there are those on this list that are barely out of their teens, and quite frankly I wonder sometimes what their fascination is for these old machines. Then again what they will learn from resurrecting some old beast will be worth a lot more than what they learn in some course somewhere. The graduates from the 'school of hard knocks' always seem to be better. Enough of my ramblings. I looked around the above mentioned web site and did not find Eng Note 100. I would suspect that it may be out there somewhere. If not, and you're unable to get a copy from Motorola, I may be willing to copy the Eng Note and send it out. I just hope I am not deluged with requests. Mike Thompson From yowza at yowza.com Sat Mar 28 20:28:01 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: For some lucky Australian dog In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980328145332.008b0310@pop3.webzone.net> Message-ID: [you owe me one -- Doug] Subject: Obsolete computers looking for a home! From: R.Alphey@forestry.unimelb.edu.au (Russell J. Alphey) Date: 1998/03/27 Message-ID: <351b38e9.253245167@news.unimelb.edu.au> Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,aus.computers It's time to clean up the spare room... These computers are available, free to a good home. Note that they are all in Melbourne, Australia. Shipping at new owner's cost! :) 1. Labtam CP/M system, with 8086 processor board add-in. Single 8" drive, with built-in monitor. 2. Micromation multiuser CP/M system. Has 4 processor boards, plus serial terminals. 20 Mb hard drive, dual 8" drives, QIC-24 tape unit. 3. 2* ??? CP/M systems, monitors have WOODEN sides! Come with processor unit, plus 2 * DISCUS 8" drives. All systems come with boot disks. Plus, I have a number of Olivetti M24, M28, & M280 systems to get rid off, same deal. Contact me by email to arrange something. I'm not going to wait too long before "dumping" these machines... R. R.Alphey@forestry.unimelb.edu.au From pcoad at wco.com Sun Mar 29 01:53:50 1998 From: pcoad at wco.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Cadnetix system available in San Deigo In-Reply-To: <005801bd59f6$8f6f39e0$c3a9fea9@office1> Message-ID: There is a guy in San Diego who has a slew of classic stuff available. The main part of it is Cadnetix CAD board layout system which consists of a repackaged Sun workstation and several networked 286 PCs. Included, but not limited to, are: Monitor 18" diagonal color with 20 pin AMP connector UNIX CPU - Cadnetix model F0000001 Tape drive - Cipher model F880 MS-DOS CPU - Sperry model 3126-00 - Mfg. Jan 1986 Printer and stand - C. Itoh model 1550 7 Boxes of keyboards, cables, documents, tapes (including OS, layout software) I am not familiar with Cadnetix, but a search of dejanews seems to show that their layout system was, at a minimum, somewhat popular. Some words from the owner: The system was used at Scientific-Atlanta in San Diego for several years to lay out all of its printed circuit boards. It wouldn't surprise me if they are all still on the backup tapes. Only one of the products is still in production by the company I work for. Our engineering department is in the process of replacing the pc boards with new designs this year so the tapes shouldn't be a problem. As best I can tell, this system was built around 1986 and taken out of service around 1990-91. It was stored in the Engineering Services area of my company until a couple of months ago when it was going to be tossed out. I put it in my garage rather than see it go into the dumpster. Although it was working when taken out of service, it has been sitting a long time so I can't tell you that it works for sure. I have no room to even set it up enough to try it. Here is the contact information: Steve Bearden . Can anyone in So. Cal help this guy out? He needs to move this stuff soon and if a home cannot be found it will end up in the landfill. Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 29 04:22:06 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Amiga A1060 SideCar In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980322195825.00c41910@pc> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, John Foust wrote: > I'll bet a doughnut there are at least two Sidecar sites on the net, > given the known rabidity of Amiga enthusiasts. Very possible, though I've so far not found them. There seems to be some product for the named "SideCar" though, because Alta Vista keeps coughing up links to articles on it. The only reference to the A1060 SideCar I was able to find, was in the alt.emulators FAQ. I'll go back to searching when I've got time. > I'll also bet that by posting on the relevant Amiga news groups, you'll > be in e-mail contact with an engineer who worked on it. Also possible, though I wouldn't be able to guess who worked on it as I believe the SideCar was designed at Commodore Germany. Some of the usual posting-crazy ex-Commodore engineers seem to have disapeared from the newsgroups recently. I'm hoping it's because they're busy cooking up new cool stuff. :) > I've got most of the > Amiga dev con notes in the basement, along with some rare Janus > programming docs and disks, but I'm not sure they'd be relevant > to your ROM version. Make sure to keep this stuff in good condition, and back up those disks. Someday I hope someone has an Amiga preservation project like Ward Shrake's VIC-20 project. (Even if the Amiga survives and flourishes in future, I still want the old stuff preserved.) > A year or so ago, I saw a very interesting Amiga collection go up > for auction: a pristine, still-in-the-unopened-boxes Amiga 1000, I've still got the boxes and packing material (minus bubble wrap) for my 1000, as well as the original disks and registration forms. As a matter of fact, my 1000 is packed in its original box right now. > complete with RAM sidecar, parallel-port hard disk, etc. It was > something left over from Commodore that someone rescued in the > last days. I wish I could have been there to pick up some cool junk. I saw someone posting on alt.folklore.computers a while back that they had an Amiga prototype. It actually had had the breadboard versions of the custom chips fitted in it at one time, but they've disappeared. I think he said he worked for Synapse Software before Amiga's release. I've also seen mention of people having Amiga Transputer boards in their posession. > I'm still hoarding my collection of never-shipped aluminium "boing" > logos that fit in the little square on the corner of the A1000. :-) I wish I had ordered something from IAM when they had their "boing logo" promotion, but I had recently purchased DiskSalv at a computer show, and already had the "Deathbed Vigil" video and T-shirt, and I wasn't interested in any of their other products at the time. It would've been nice to get the logos, though. (They were scoured from the garages of various ex-Commodore engineers.) > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 29 04:42:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > Also, just for the hell of it (and it's probably a Bad Thing(tm)) I nudged > > the head forward when the machine was off, to see if it would move when > > power was applied. And it did move back to its usual position. > > No, that is not a problem. Good. It seemed like the only way of knowing if the drive was even making an attempt to read the disk. Apart from its reaction to the cleaning disk, that is. :) > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > > BLUE 16-pin chip. > > The BLUE chip is a terminating resistor array and should be installed in > the last drive on the ribbon cable - the B drive. Leave it there. OK. That makes sense. The blue thing was the only difference I could see between drives from my restricted viewing window. > It is possible that the 14pin socket is the drive selector. It isn't. The cover article of the September 1984 issue of 80 Micro, entitled "Drive Ways", has photos of Tandon drives that appear identical to the ones in my Kaypros. The "DIP shunt for drive select" is in a 14-pin package, plugged into a 16-pin connector, just in front of the 14-pin chip I can see from the back of the drives. I won't know if these drives have the "DIP shunt" or the thing you describe until I get the drives out of the metal box. > > I don't think I should even make the attempt without first getting the > > drives out of the machine. Which means I need an appropriately-sized > > 6-sided screwdriver. :/ > > What you need is what is called an Allen Wrench. They come in all shapes > and sizes. Yeah, I've located precisely 40, in my father's toolbox, seemingly from two identical sets. But none are the proper size. It seems doubtful for an American product, but could these screws be metric? Most tools in this house are still Imperial. :) > Your friendly local hardware store or electronic shop should > be delighted to sell you one or a set. Now I have to go looking. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 29 05:04:09 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > > BLUE 16-pin chip. > > Sounds a little like a Tandon drive, although those normally had the > jumper in location 1E (or at least the schematics I have show it there). I believe it is a Tandon drive. I am unable to view the main circuit boards of the drives because they're in a metal box, but if 1E is directly in front of 2E, then yes, I believe I'll find the jumpers there. I've found labeled photographs of a Tandon drive in an old issue of 80 Micro. > The 14 pin 'chip' is the jumper pack. Alas the schematics I've found show > a _16_ pin jumper at location 1E with the following functions : > 1-16 Enable head load on drive selected > 2-15 Drive select 0 > 3-14 DS1 > 4-13 DS2 > 5-12 DS3 > 6-11 Mux (drive _always_ enabled) > 7-10 Not used > 8-9 Eanable head load on motor on The photos show a 16-pin socket, filled with a 14-pin "DIP shunt", with only four switches in it, corresponding (I think) to DS0-DS3. > I've also found a later version of the drive with a 14 pin jumper at > location 'U8'. It has the following functions > 1-14 Enable head load on drive selected > 2-13 Drive select 0 > 3-12 DS1 > 4-11 DS2 > 5-10 Mux (drive _always_ enabled) > 6-9 DS3 > 7-8 Eanable head load on motor on How similar in appearance are these two drives? The one in 80 Micro (#56, Sept. 84) appears identical to the drives I have, at least as far as my limited viewing window allows me to see. At any rate, once I manage to remove the drives from their housing, I'll find the jumper blocks. > There are 3 common '6-sided' screwdrivers : > > Allen hex - a true hexagonal tip, which come in inch and metric sizes This is the one I need. Possibly in metric sizes as none of the imperial ones I have fit. > Torx - looks like a 6-cycle 'sine wave' wrapped around a circle. This one > is common in computer equipment And quite annoying. :) > Bristol Spine - has 6 _square_ splines (sometimes only 4). This one is > common in Friden machines, and in some IBM stuff. I don't think I've ever seen this one. Thanks again! Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 29 05:40:25 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Televideo TS803 $10 in L.A. In-Reply-To: <35168A3E.4012@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > Televideo TS 803 plus, $10/OBO, Used I really hope someone jumped on this one. I've got a TeleVideo TPC-I, which is a luggable version of the TS-803, and it's a beautiful machine. If someone picked it up, could they copy the manuals for me? :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 29 09:53:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 29, 98 06:04:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980329/33dc3b36/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Sun Mar 29 12:13:37 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Osborne disk reads/writes Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980329101337.00f6c100@pop.batnet.com> Got this off the Web site this morning, it's an interesting question. Reply to poster with a copy, please. >name=guy brutel >addr=brutel@wxs.nl >I am looking for a program that reads /writes on a DOS-PC the 5 1/4 diskettes of my old Osborne 1. Where to find such conversion programmes? Program sources that could be adapted? >Thanks! TIA, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 29 12:58:22 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Terminals to get rid of-rerun Message-ID: <351E99CD.4CCACD8@bbtel.com> I had these posted in late February and had to "cold shoulder" a few people since there were some people that said they definitely wanted them. Those same people have not contacted me in some time and I'm posting these again as I need to get them out of my way soon or they will get new homes in the landfill.... Have three older terminals, condition unknown but in good physical shape. Digital VT100, no keyboard Digital VT220, no keyboard Visual 102 with keyboard I'm going to ask $5 for each plus shipping to more or less cover the time involved in packing and running these to the shipper, but otherwise they're here and awaiting some interested foster home to contact me about them. Neither weighs a lot but due to the glass crt they aren't featherwight either. I also have for $10 each plus shipping three Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminals in great physical and electrical shape. They emulate quite a few different things and come with like new keyboards as well and have both a current loop and a 25 pin serial connection in the back. If the people that said they wanted them are still reading the posts in this area and still want them they need to contact me immediately. I'm sure the Digitals are wanted irregardless of condition for parts or collectability. The HP's are great dumb terminals for those of you running minis and mainframes that otherwise have no human interface and possibly even for automated data aquisition and test racks. If I don't get a firm response by the middle of April (say tax deadline) they go away for good. It's too much of a problem to have them in much needed space here to mess with them. Those interested should let me know what they want and their zip code to calculate shipping, either by UPS or USPS. I can only take a money order or cashier's check for the amount due and shipping, in advance of shipping. COntact me directly. I'm in the process of finishing my new shop and these are a definite nuisance to have to walk around since I personally have no use for them -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 29 13:11:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Modem Tester FS/Trade Message-ID: <351E9CF3.4E8E7B54@bbtel.com> Rerun of what I posted earlier. I really need to find a home for this! Sanders and Associates 101 Modem Tester Smaller sized benchtop case (11x4x10 approx that sits on handle) with 25 pin sub-d male and female connectors (RS-232??) as well as individual test points for each signal on back. Nixie 3 digit error display, over run/count gate/sync lost lamps, test pattern/test length switch, BPS/sync/self test switch, 1 error 10(3) bits button and start button on the front. The unit was made by Sanders & Associates Inc, Digital Comm Dept, Nashua, New Hamster. It appears to be of middle/late 80's vintage and is probably a worthwhile instrument yet for telecomm or network use. I can just imaine what something like this went for new. Asking $35 plus shipping (10 lbs maybe) for the unit. I'd really like to find someone that can use this as I've been considering pulling the guts and using the case for a homebuilt freq. counter, which I really don't want to do. Contact me by direct email if interested as soon as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 29 13:13:08 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Osborne disk reads/writes In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980329101337.00f6c100@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > >I am looking for a program that reads /writes on a > DOS-PC the 5 1/4 diskettes of my old Osborne 1. > Where to find such conversion programmes? Program sources that could be > adapted? I recently needed the same thing myself. I'm not sure about Osborne specifically, but try Sydex's 22Disk: http://www.sydex.com/other.html -- Doug From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 29 13:45:45 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Computer Pinout Sources References: <199803280802.AAA24451@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <351EA4E9.D00D757D@goldrush.com> Here us a URL that can provide you with MANY pinouts: The Hardware Book: http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Mar 29 14:03:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Computer Pinout Sources References: <199803280802.AAA24451@lists3.u.washington.edu> <351EA4E9.D00D757D@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <351EA92A.5EA9E396@bbtel.com> Larry Anderson wrote: > Here us a URL that can provide you with MANY pinouts: > > The Hardware Book: > > http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html > I had this bookmarked in the past as well but after giving it to J. Maynard Gelinas, I found that it's down and either at a new address or gone for good. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Mar 29 14:17:32 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Computer Pinout Sources In-Reply-To: <351EA92A.5EA9E396@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > Here us a URL that can provide you with MANY pinouts: > > > > The Hardware Book: > > > > http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html > > > > I had this bookmarked in the past as well but after giving it to J. Maynard > Gelinas, I found that it's down and either at a new address or gone for good. There are a few mirrors still up: http://nt.comtec.co.kr/doc/connectors/hwb/hwb.html http://junitec.ist.utl.pt/hwb/ -- Doug From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Mar 29 15:58:18 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Terminals to get rid of-rerun In-Reply-To: <351E99CD.4CCACD8@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 29, 98 12:58:22 pm Message-ID: <199803292158.QAA26246@shell.monmouth.com> > > I had these posted in late February and had to "cold shoulder" a few > people since there were some people that said they definitely wanted > them. Those same people have not contacted me in some time and I'm > posting these again as I need to get them out of my way soon or they > will get new homes in the landfill.... > > Have three older terminals, condition unknown but in good physical > shape. > > Digital VT100, no keyboard > Digital VT220, no keyboard > Visual 102 with keyboard > > I'm going to ask $5 for each plus shipping to more or less cover the > time involved in packing and running these to the shipper, but otherwise > they're here and awaiting some interested foster home to contact me > about them. Neither weighs a lot but due to the glass crt they aren't > featherwight either. > If you want to complete these for sale (if someone wants) I've got keyboards for both available for the $5.00 it would cost me to ship them. Bill From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 29 16:39:44 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > > > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > > > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > > > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > > > BLUE 16-pin chip. > > > > The BLUE chip is a terminating resistor array and should be installed in > > the last drive on the ribbon cable - the B drive. Leave it there. > > OK. That makes sense. The blue thing was the only difference I could see > between drives from my restricted viewing window. > > > It is possible that the 14pin socket is the drive selector. > > It isn't. The cover article of the September 1984 issue of 80 Micro, > entitled "Drive Ways", has photos of Tandon drives that appear identical > to the ones in my Kaypros. The "DIP shunt for drive select" is in a > 14-pin package, plugged into a 16-pin connector, just in front of the > 14-pin chip I can see from the back of the drives. > > I won't know if these drives have the "DIP shunt" or the thing you > describe until I get the drives out of the metal box. True, as the DIP shunt is probably about 1.5" into the metal box. > > What you need is what is called an Allen Wrench. They come in all shapes > > and sizes. > > Yeah, I've located precisely 40, in my father's toolbox, seemingly from > two identical sets. But none are the proper size. > > It seems doubtful for an American product, but could these screws be > metric? Most tools in this house are still Imperial. :) No, they are US standard. The wrench is 7/64", I believe. > > Your friendly local hardware store or electronic shop should > > be delighted to sell you one or a set. > > Now I have to go looking. :) > > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Weg site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sun Mar 29 17:24:24 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Baby Blue CP/M Card for PC's Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980329144028.2fdfc47c@ricochet.net> I recently got a "Baby Blue CPU Plus" card by Microlog Inc. It's a CP/M Card for PC's, and has a 4.77mhz Z80B with 64K RAM (available to DOS too). Also "accepts several popular CP/M 5.25-in soft-sectored disk formats". It's a full-length 8-bit ISA card, and has no docs or software, but the original box has the installation info (including limited dip-switch settings) printed on the back. Anyway, anyone have a manual or software I could get a copy of? Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sun Mar 29 17:24:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: TRS-80 manuals Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980329151119.2fdf2210@ricochet.net> Picked up the following Manuals: (2) User's Manual for Level 1 -- TRS-80 Micro Computer System Line Printer VIII Level II Basic Reference Manual They're available if anyone is interested. ($1 apiece, plus shipping.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 29 18:20:54 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: Doug Spence "Re: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232" (Mar 29, 6:04) References: Message-ID: <9803300120.ZM11693@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 29, 6:04, Doug Spence wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > At the back of the main circuit board, just in front of where the ribbon > > > cable connects to it, there is a 14-pin chip with a label "1F" beside it. > > > In drive A, there is an empty 16-pin socket beside it, with "2F" written > > > on the circuit board beside it. Drive B has something IN this socket - a > > > BLUE 16-pin chip. > > > > Sounds a little like a Tandon drive, although those normally had the > > jumper in location 1E (or at least the schematics I have show it there). > > I believe it is a Tandon drive. > > I am unable to view the main circuit boards of the drives because they're > in a metal box, but if 1E is directly in front of 2E, then yes, I believe > I'll find the jumpers there. I've found labeled photographs of a Tandon > drive in an old issue of 80 Micro. It does sound like a Tandom TM100 (or of that series, anywy). I've got the manual, too. > > Allen hex - a true hexagonal tip, which come in inch and metric sizes > > This is the one I need. Possibly in metric sizes as none of the imperial > ones I have fit. Much more likely to be Imperial, on American equipment. Some sets go up in bigger steps than others, though; perhaps the one you need is just "missing". I have a few sets like that :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 29 19:02:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: <9803300120.ZM11693@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 30, 98 00:20:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1034 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980330/7a686c86/attachment.ksh From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Mar 29 19:54:25 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 bits Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980329205425.006891cc@mail.wincom.net> Does anyone have any suggestions as to where we might track down a tape punch and reader for this old Teletype 33TA? Regards Charlie Fox From circuitsurgeon at fwi.com Sun Mar 29 23:59:16 1998 From: circuitsurgeon at fwi.com (Gil Jasmin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 bits References: <3.0.2.32.19980329205425.006891cc@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <351F34B4.6AC6@fwi.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to where we might track down a tape > punch and reader for this old Teletype 33TA? > > Regards > > Charlie Fox Hi Charles, I have a DSI data specialties tape punch/reader. Would this work for you? Gil -- Live Long and Prosper Gil Jasmin 313 w. Paulding Rd. Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46807-3428 http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon/neonking.html From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Mar 30 00:55:46 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: FW: VAX Wanted in Germany -- offer of $500 made! Message-ID: <35224186.2065630199@mail.jps.net> Holy Cow... I guess the repair price this fellow got quoted was truly astronomical! Anyway... if you've got a VAXen of the type he's looking for, and you want to get a good price for it and have it go to a good home to boot (pun intended, of course), get in touch with the original author of the message attached here... -=-=- -=-=- From: michaXrostock@t-online.de (Dr. Michael Storck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Looking for ... Date: 29 Mar 1998 18:11:59 GMT Organization: T-Online Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6fm2tf$su6$1@news00.btx.dtag.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 0381685071-0001@t-online.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed00.btx.dtag.de!news.btx.dtag.de!not-for-mail Hi from Rostock, Germany My old DecStation 5000 / 200 got hardware -problems. Having it repaired is rather expensive with digital in germany. As I still have data on two rz 55 / rz 56 disks I am looking for a DecStation 5000 / 240 or 5000 / 260 system 2ndhand, with a sytem 2 user license of ultrix 4.3 or 4.4 I would need only the system box (with hard disk built in ) as my Dec (well rather Sony) 19" monitor is still well and alive ... Shipping from US / CAN via UPS or DHL ... Willing to pay about $ 500 (depending on type of sys and size of hard disk) Mike Storck -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j

s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Mar 30 06:52:42 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 30, 98 02:02:16 am Message-ID: <199803301252.HAA11094@shell.monmouth.com> > BTW, I find the Xcellite 99MP tool kit (contains flatblade, Phillips, > allen hex, Bristol Spline, and nutdrivers) to be very useful, especially > if you do DEC repairs. Just about any DEC machine or peripheral can be > dismantled using it. There are additional 99-series sets that contain > metric sizes, Torx drivers, etc. The only problem is the price... > > > -tony > > That kit was standard issue for DEC, IBM and other Field Service company. The only stuff it didn't have is metric and bristol spine stuff. It's something I hope to get slowly. I've got the nutdrivers, and standard screwdrivers. I'm going to add the hex and torx stuff over time. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Mar 30 08:42:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 bits In-Reply-To: <351F34B4.6AC6@fwi.com> References: <3.0.2.32.19980329205425.006891cc@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980330094213.0068a85c@mail.wincom.net> At 12:59 AM 3/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >Charles E. Fox wrote: Thanks for your reply, but I consulted our local expert and he doesn't think it would be suitable.> >> >> Regards >> >> Charlie Fox >Hi Charles, I have a DSI data specialties tape punch/reader. Would this >work for you? >Gil >-- >Live Long and Prosper > >Gil Jasmin >313 w. Paulding Rd. >Ft. Wayne, Indiana >46807-3428 > >http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon >http://www2.fwi.com/~circuitsurgeon/neonking.html > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 30 09:22:17 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Amiga A1060 SideCar Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980330092217.00bbf950@pc> Doug Spence wrote: >> I'll bet a doughnut there are at least two Sidecar sites on the net, >> given the known rabidity of Amiga enthusiasts. > >Very possible, though I've so far not found them. There seems to be some >product for the named "SideCar" though, because Alta Vista keeps coughing >up links to articles on it. Hmm. Guess that means I might owe you a doughnut. Did you try posting questions to the Amigoid newsgroups? I'll check my basement archives, too. >I wish I had ordered something from IAM when they had their "boing logo" >promotion, but I had recently purchased DiskSalv at a computer show, and >already had the "Deathbed Vigil" video and T-shirt, and I wasn't >interested in any of their other products at the time. It would've been >nice to get the logos, though. (They were scoured from the garages of >various ex-Commodore engineers.) I attended the first "Amiga wake" party when Amiga Corp. closed in Los Gatos. They had one of those "black box" wirewrap Amigas there. I will continue to deny that I had anything to do with the rescue of the Amiga sign from the lawn of the old office. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 30 10:10:28 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals Message-ID: <351FC3F4.E57FF16A@bbtel.com> I have the full documentation package for the Plus+ HardCard 20 which includes the Installation and Refernce Manual, 80286 Upgrade Kit Manual, Warranty and Service-US booklet and preliminary notes for the 286 upgrade booklet. If anyone thinks they can use these in the US I'd take $5 for the package which basically covers me shoving it in an envelope and mailing it to you. Drop me a note, first come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulb at nuvision3d.com Mon Mar 30 10:53:18 1998 From: paulb at nuvision3d.com (Paul Barton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: CORE MEMORY FOR 11/34 Message-ID: <199803301657.IAA00510@mail.easystreet.com> I have two core memory boards that I took out of an 11/34 back around 1982 or so, worked when took them out, don't have driver board, lost that. Will trade for coco-3 or IDE drive (working) around 540mb or so. (haha) Paul T. Barton paulb@nuvision3d.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 30 11:27:03 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: CORE MEMORY FOR 11/34 In-Reply-To: <199803301657.IAA00510@mail.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <13343844497.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have a 64K CoCo 2... I can probably scare up the IDE device. How much core? ------- From 113172.1411 at compuserve.com Mon Mar 30 16:05:49 1998 From: 113172.1411 at compuserve.com (david yerbury) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: ft 60 tape streamer Message-ID: <199803301706_MC2-386C-4359@compuserve.com> hello have been trying to find out about this piece of hardware for some time and eventually tracked this site i have in my posssession a virtually new ft60 and have some of the software but no board --- as an ex service engineer that is now blind I cant bear to throw it away someone talk to me and its theirs for the postage david yerbury From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 30 13:35:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: <199803301252.HAA11094@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Mar 30, 98 07:52:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 943 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980330/9714c52c/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Mar 30 17:40:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: Modem tester FS/Trade Message-ID: <35202D6D.87CA586B@bbtel.com> The modem tester has been claimed. Thanks to anyone that maight have been interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 30 17:36:17 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:01 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? Message-ID: <13343911716.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Anyone have docs for the DHV11? Does it emulate a DH11? (It's the Q-bus 8-line MUX) I'd like to figure out how to tell mine what to do... ------- From peacock at simconv.com Mon Mar 30 18:33:11 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A80C35E8@mail.simconv.com> > From: Daniel A. Seagraves [mailto:DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com] > Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? > > Anyone have docs for the DHV11? Does it emulate a DH11? > (It's the Q-bus 8-line MUX) > I'd like to figure out how to tell mine what to do... > ------- I might have a DHV11 manual around, I'll have to check. I do have a board in an old uVAX II. Do you need anything in particular? Like the CSR and interrupt switch settings? As I recall, the Q-bus DHV isn't quite the same as a the Unibus DH11, but it does use DMA, much faster than a DZQ11. The DHV11 uses floating CSRs, do you know how to set them? (I assume you are going to use VMS) Jack Peacock From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Mar 30 18:25:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A80C35E8@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: <13343920686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [DHV11] No, I awnt CSRs and programming info. It's in a PDP-11, and I'm playing with code outside of an O/S: (Read: depositing things in RAM and playing with things that way. No OS involved) ------- From emu at ecubics.com Mon Mar 30 20:01:13 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? Message-ID: <19980331014953.AAA25441@1Cust60.tnt14.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Daniel ... have a look at: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ DLVJ1.info cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Daniel A. Seagraves > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? > Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 4:36 PM > > Anyone have docs for the DHV11? Does it emulate a DH11? > (It's the Q-bus 8-line MUX) > I'd like to figure out how to tell mine what to do... > ------- From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Mar 30 19:58:59 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data Message-ID: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2281 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980330/eec880cc/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Mon Mar 30 20:02:39 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? Message-ID: <19980331015119.AAA21876@1Cust60.tnt14.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Daniel, sorry for the last one, copied the wrong filename. the right is: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ dhv11.config cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Daniel A. Seagraves > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? > Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 4:36 PM > > Anyone have docs for the DHV11? Does it emulate a DH11? > (It's the Q-bus 8-line MUX) > I'd like to figure out how to tell mine what to do... > ------- From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Mar 30 19:51:03 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? In-Reply-To: <13343911716.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 30, 98 03:36:17 pm Message-ID: <199803310151.UAA14897@shell.monmouth.com> > > Anyone have docs for the DHV11? Does it emulate a DH11? > (It's the Q-bus 8-line MUX) > I'd like to figure out how to tell mine what to do... Looks like my Communication options book stop at 1984. DMV -- yes DZV -- yes DHV -- no... Was it supported on 11's? Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Mar 30 19:55:51 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 30, 98 08:35:38 pm Message-ID: <199803310155.UAA17456@shell.monmouth.com> > > > That kit was standard issue for DEC, IBM and other Field Service company. > > Indeed. The first one I saw was carried by a DEC field servoid. I ordered > one soon after... > > > The only stuff it didn't have is metric and bristol spine stuff. > > Odd... Every 99MP kit that I've seen contains the full range of Bristol > Spline keys..., along with imperial allen hex, imperial nutdrivers, > phillips screwdrivers (0,1,2), flatblade screwdrivers (4 sizes) and a > reamer (!). Looks like DEC custom built their tool boxes without the bristol spline stuff. I added ball-end Allen's to work on TU77s and the metric allen's later. The ball-end ones are a big plus on getting the stuff like the servo power amp to break loose of the heat sink compound. (the real trick is having 2 or 3 extensions on 'em. > > -tony > Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Mon Mar 30 20:31:44 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > So, what do you all do with old data you find? I'm not religious about > this -- I don't necessarily think there's a "right" and a "wrong". But > it's a worthy subject to talk about, and definitely has historical > implications. Hypothetically speaking, for instance, let's say you came > accross a tape with some interoffice memos and source code from Bell > Labs, 1970 -- UNIX development notes, memos to and from Dennis Ritchie > and Ken Thompson, that sort of thing :) Certainly very historically > significant, and I'd probably end up cutting it to CD or something. > But that's a pretty black-and-white example, I'm sure there's a lot of > gray area out there. First, it's impractical to simply wipe out a disk as soon as you get it. On Unix systems, there's sort of a separation between user data and system data, but the separation is more poorly defined for an MS-DOS system for example, and you want to retain the useful system data in almost every case. When there is personal data present on a system, I don't go out of my way to view it. If I find some directories which contain docs or database info, that's generally the first stuff I start deleting to reclaim space. On most systems you find, it is difficult to make a correlation between data and real people, so viewing personal data on such systems might be ethically "ambiguous", but it's at least a level removed from going through personal data on your company's systems, which is Clearly Wrong (TM). From aaron at wfi-inc.com Mon Mar 30 22:42:43 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems > they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by A very important question for people involved in this hobby.... It kind of depends. I am a sys admin professionally right now, so I too have a religion based around the personal privacy of users. But as the guy responsible for what information people have access to, I am well aware of what's on any systems that are sold/given away. Certainly something important would have been backed up (Hubble stuff) but something sensitive would almost certainly been erased. My company images and stores medical records, about as sensitive as you can get. Short of the magnetic eraser, any drive that leaves my immediate line of sight gets wiped as clean as I can get it. Scientific/technical information that I come across I like to look at, and sometimes it inspires me to learn what the heck they're talking about. I'm not going to make copies and send it to the Chinese government or anything, so I don't see any harm done by it. Of course any personal mailboxes or notes get erased before my curiosity even knows they ever existed. Some people have looked at me like I was the most depraved criminal in the world when I mentioned reading about this or that electronic device or how interesting the schematic for a doo-dad was on an old system. It's a personal choice, and they are responsible for putting it in your hands anyway. Just have a little respect for personal privacy and use your own judgement. Aaron From dastar at wco.com Mon Mar 30 20:51:44 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > But unfortunately, it's _not_ that simple. Curiosity got the better > of me, and I at least had to see what types of directories were on > the system. This system came from Lockheed Martin, and very much to my > surprise, contained lots and lots of Hubble Space Telescope simulation > information. Stuff I didn't understand, but nonetheless, I found myself > peeking at some of it -- how could I not? Something that cool and > interesting has quite the pull to a geek like myself. Hell, as far as I'm concerned that's valuable data that should have been preserved. I'm sure the Lockheed Martin folks kept a copy for themselves. But look at it this way: in this case the data you found was paid for by American (ie. your) tax dollars. So you have every right to look at it. It's not like it was somebody's love letters. > I've since simply re-initialized the drives: My thinking was, "This > data is not mine, I have no right to keep it. It may be sensitive, > even though I don't understand it. If Lockheed Martin had wanted it, > they surely made backups and transferred to another system." Since it > wasn't really historically significant _that_I_could_tell_, I felt > somewhat obligated to delete it without reading more. Ugh! I would've kept it. It wasn't hurting anybody, and its not like I was going to sell it to the Russians (as if they could do anything useful with it anyway). > implications. Hypothetically speaking, for instance, let's say you came > accross a tape with some interoffice memos and source code from Bell > Labs, 1970 -- UNIX development notes, memos to and from Dennis Ritchie > and Ken Thompson, that sort of thing :) Certainly very historically > significant, and I'd probably end up cutting it to CD or something. > But that's a pretty black-and-white example, I'm sure there's a lot of > gray area out there. I wouldn't lose any sleep over this issue. If you get a system from the original owner with data still on it, ask them how you should proceed with it. If the original owner is not available, use your best judgement. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Mar 30 20:55:19 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: FS: Vaxen 3100s Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980330215341.006e34d4@netpath.net> Hi guys. I dropped off the list a few weeks back, too much for me to keep up with I guess, what with subscribing to three red hat linux lists. (avg. 300 messages a day total) Anyway, I've got three Digital VAXStation 3100's up for grabs at www.haggle.com and thought you might be interested. I also have one HP 68030 workstation if anyone is interested. http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201560664 http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201560663 http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201560662 Bidding started at a penny, auctions end April 4th, only have one bid on one of them. I think they'll go cheap. Check the descriptions at the URLs for details. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 30 20:32:34 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? In-Reply-To: "Daniel A. Seagraves" "RE: ANyone have DHV11 docs?" (Mar 30, 16:25) References: <13343920686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <9803310332.ZM18314@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 30, 16:25, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: RE: ANyone have DHV11 docs? > [DHV11] > No, I awnt CSRs and programming info. It's in a PDP-11, and I'm playing > with code outside of an O/S: (Read: depositing things in RAM and > playing with things that way. No OS involved) I've got the DHV11 manual somewhere in this huge pile of ring binders on the floor... If you have any specific questions I can look them up, but I seem to remember it's fairly similar to a DH11. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 30 20:49:15 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: "Seth J. Morabito" "Old Data" (Mar 30, 17:58) References: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <9803310349.ZM18318@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Mar 30, 17:58, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > Subject: Old Data > I have a moral and ethical question to throw open for debate. No, > I'm not looking for flames, just informed opinions. I'm not sure how "informed" my opinion is but you're welcome to it anyway. > I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems > they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by > my acquisition of a MicroVAX 3800, with three intact disks overflowing > with data that had apparently never been erased. In Britain (and the rest of Europe) the Data Protection Act is supposed to cover anything that could be considered "personal data", ie relating to a person or persons, and data that can identify a person is particularly protected. Nonetheless, leaks occur. > If it had been user data, personal mail, and so forth, I would have > simply deleted it, no questions asked. I'd do the same; in fact, I have done. > But unfortunately, it's _not_ that simple. [snip] > I've since simply re-initialized the drives: My thinking was, "This > data is not mine, I have no right to keep it. It may be sensitive, > even though I don't understand it. A few years ago, I was given a big Fujitsu SMD drive and controller. I only really wanted the drive, so I hooked it up to a different controller (different format). I was very surprised to find it was not only readable, but full of a certain very well known insurance company's head office records, including a lot of stuff that I'm sure was commercially sensitive. I just reformatted the drive. I've since had exactly the situation you describe with three RZ23s. One had VMS, the other two had an assortment of what looked like someone's office files. I wanted two for a unix box, so I reformatted them fairly promptly without even bothering to see what the files really were. I kept the VMS one for a while in case it was useful, but when I finally got my MicroVax, it had all the drive space I needed, so eventually the last one got wiped too. I've had this happen so often that I've almost given up looking to see what's on drives; it's hardly ever useful or interesting. I used to keep useful software, but I wouldn't read personal files. Somehow theft (copyrighted software) doesn't seem quite as morally objectionable as peeping. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From archive at navix.net Tue Mar 31 01:17:45 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data References: Message-ID: <35209898.5C2DD0A2@navix.net> Just to to thrown in a little story of my own. Nothing like top-secret international data or anything, but I once uncovered some old TRS-80 disks at a local flea-market. So I check them out naturally. On them was some text files of a very personal nature. Let's see... there was a draft of a letter the man was writing for his wife... a very heated letter that talked about splitting up and whatnot... very personal. Also, on there was some legal documents actually going towards a divorce between the two. To make it more interesting... the names on the documents, and apparently the previous owners of the disks, were one of the local lawyers that we all know very well here. Of course, they're still (happily?) married, and the documents were dated around 1985. Now, wouldn't you think he should have deleted that information? Do you think I still have those documents? Well, honestly, I'm not sure if I do or not around on floppy somewhere, but I doubt it. It had no interested to me, and I certainly wasn't going to pass them around town! That's enough of that boring story. But, it does prove a small if not large point! Catch ya' later, CORD COSLOR Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > > I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems > > they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by > > A very important question for people involved in this hobby.... > > It kind of depends. I am a sys admin professionally right now, so I too > have a religion based around the personal privacy of users. But as the guy > responsible for what information people have access to, I am well aware of > what's on any systems that are sold/given away. Certainly something > important would have been backed up (Hubble stuff) but something sensitive > would almost certainly been erased. My company images and stores medical > records, about as sensitive as you can get. Short of the magnetic eraser, > any drive that leaves my immediate line of sight gets wiped as clean as I > can get it. Scientific/technical information that I come across I like to > look at, and sometimes it inspires me to learn what the heck they're > talking about. I'm not going to make copies and send it to the Chinese > government or anything, so I don't see any harm done by it. Of course any > personal mailboxes or notes get erased before my curiosity even knows they > ever existed. > > Some people have looked at me like I was the most depraved criminal in the > world when I mentioned reading about this or that electronic device or how > interesting the schematic for a doo-dad was on an old system. It's a > personal choice, and they are responsible for putting it in your hands > anyway. Just have a little respect for personal privacy and use your own > judgement. > > Aaron -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 31 00:35:39 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data References: <199803310158.RAA14551@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <35208EBA.458763F2@rain.org> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems > they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by > my acquisition of a MicroVAX 3800, with three intact disks overflowing > with data that had apparently never been erased. Well, on all the HDs that I have gotten, the only thing I will keep on the HD is the operating system and any public domain/shareware utilities. Everything else gets wiped (notice *wiped*, not just deleted.) Of the many HDs I have run across, one of them contained the financial records of a bank including those of a number of well known people around town. I do tend to scan though the disk to see what is on it, but when I realized with this stuff was, I just wiped the disk before it went out to someone else. Had another instance where I had loaned out a HD to a business. When they were through with it, they had some idiot, who passed themselves off as a computer expert, replace the drive. They reformatted the drive thinking that would be enough. Well, it would have been if they hadn't *really* pissed me off by putting a label of "Big Fucker" on the drive before it was returned to me. Long story made short, I recovered all the data off the drive, broke the passwords, and returned the recovered data to the company along with a few choice words about the lack of professionalism on the part of the other "consultant". I think they got the point :). From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue Mar 31 01:03:17 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Archiving docs Message-ID: <19980330230317.21602ffc.in@mail.pressstart.com> I would like hear from anyone that has done any archiving of their classic computer documents and manuals. I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in 299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned my first CD of docs consisting of 26 color pages and 170 B/W pages for a total of 454 Mb.( I didn't fill the CD bcause I was anxious to try printing the files at work.) I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have quite a bit of background clutter on the printed page. I'm having no problems seeing the smallest details when I magnify the pages in Photoshop. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From aaron at wfi-inc.com Tue Mar 31 03:29:53 1998 From: aaron at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Archiving docs In-Reply-To: <19980330230317.21602ffc.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: I use a Fujitsu 600c to scan everything, using software that I wrote just for archiving old manuals. I used the ImageBasic toolkit from Diamond Head Software (purchased by my company for other purposes ;) ) that came packaged complete with all kinds of neat utilities like de-speckle, skew-fix, etc. It's nice to use because I set a few pre-set scanning modes that set up the scanner for what I'm doing; noisy b/w, noisy colour, text-only, detailed-graphics, etc. Some suggestions: 1) Try scanning text or any B/W pages in B/W mode. Since the bits can only be white/black, it can automatically get rid of a lot of background noise. 2) I think the loss of detail on the schematics may be due to the resolution of your scanner, as well as noise showing up because of the greyscale setting. Try them B/W and just adjust the contrast/brightness until you lose the noise. The nice thing about Photoshop is being able to edit sections of the page at a time, so you could clean up each little section as you go. 3) Depending on what kind of printer you have, you might try playing with the half-tone/dithering settings as well. Most of my images of 8.5x11 are 50k-250k for B/W, 500k-1.5M for 16-shade, and anywhere from 5-15 megs for colour (all at 600dpi). I usually print them on an HP Laserjet 4si at 600dpi or an Apple LW16-600 with photo-grade enabled. Aaron On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Doug Coward wrote: > I would like hear from anyone that has done any archiving of their > classic computer documents and manuals. > > I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color > resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving > in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so > pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning > at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in > 299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb > for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned > my first CD of docs consisting of 26 color pages and 170 B/W > pages for a total of 454 Mb.( I didn't fill the CD bcause I was anxious > to try printing the files at work.) > I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today > at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were > lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have > quite a bit of background clutter on the printed page. I'm having no > problems seeing the smallest details when I magnify the pages in > Photoshop. > > > > > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 31 06:58:13 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: S100 machines on view Message-ID: <00b001bd5ca4$ac0a73c0$56f438cb@nostromo> I've added a new page to my Weird Computing Machines site. The page shows my two S100 machines. I invite you to visit, as these really are quite fascinating computers - especially the first!! http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/ Please select "S100 bus" on the menu to view them. Lots of software and documentation came with these machines - its a bit of a dilemma... I'd love to get it all running again, but have neither time nor space. They are destined to spend their time "looking pretty" for some time to come. Enjoy! Cheers A From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 31 07:33:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? In-Reply-To: <19980331014953.AAA25441@1Cust60.tnt14.dfw5.da.uu.net> Message-ID: <13344064079.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [DLVJ1.info] That's a DLV11J. That's a 4-line qbus MUX. Close, but not what I was after. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 31 07:37:35 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: ANyone have DHV11 docs? In-Reply-To: <19980331015119.AAA21876@1Cust60.tnt14.dfw5.da.uu.net> Message-ID: <13344064870.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [DHU11-mode switch] Hmm.... DHU11 = DH-11? I'll have to pull mine and see where this is set... This wasn't programming info, but if that makes it act like a DH-11, I have docs for that. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 31 07:43:48 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13344065999.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Data Privacy of retired systems...] Well, I had to sign a Non-Disclosure thingie before I could take the 11/44 out of Knox. They were very interested that I destroy whatever wasn't O/S info. They had student records and accounting stuff on there. In fact, they wanted to magnet the harddisk until someone said it'd nuke servo tracks. ------- From jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu Tue Mar 31 07:54:55 1998 From: jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals In-Reply-To: <351FC3F4.E57FF16A@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 30, 98 10:10:28 am Message-ID: <199803311354.IAA13528@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - If you still have the manuals, I'll buy them. John > > I have the full documentation package for the Plus+ HardCard 20 which > includes the Installation and Refernce Manual, 80286 Upgrade Kit Manual, > Warranty and Service-US booklet and preliminary notes for the 286 > upgrade booklet. > > If anyone thinks they can use these in the US I'd take $5 for the > package which basically covers me shoving it in an envelope and mailing > it to you. Drop me a note, first come first served. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 31 08:01:34 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Archiving docs In-Reply-To: "Doug Coward" "Archiving docs" (Mar 30, 23:03) References: <19980330230317.21602ffc.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <9803311501.ZM24297@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> > I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color > resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving > in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so > pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning > at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in > 299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb > for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned > my first CD of docs consisting of 26 color pages and 170 B/W > pages for a total of 454 Mb.( I didn't fill the CD bcause I was anxious > to try printing the files at work.) > I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today > at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were > lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have > quite a bit of background clutter on the printed page. I'm having no > problems seeing the smallest details when I magnify the pages in > Photoshop. There's not much point in printing at a higher resolution than the scan. I'm not familiar with the Umax 300P. Is that 300x600 intrinsic resolution, or interpolated? You almost certainly want any interpolation or dithering turned off, because it will de-sharpen the image. There's also not much point in using grayscale unless you're scanning photos; if the text is B/W, scan in B/W. It saves a lot of memory/filespace, and has a better chance of losing the background clutter. That's why photographers copy documents with very high contrast "line" film, which basically comes out black and white with no shades in between. You'll probably want to retouch the images to get best results (obliterate any remaining clutter, and/or fill in any missing pixels), and you may need to adjust the scanner's contrast or intensity setting(s) to get best results. The optimum settings will probably vary slightly between documents. Also, don't use JPEG compression, unless you're only compressing by relatively small amounts. JPEG is a lossy compression system; the compressed-and-then- expanded image is not the same as the original; detail *is* lost. GIF or TIFF is better. All this is a bit general, but is based on my own experience. Once upon a time I was a photographer (for a printing business) and I use a small desk scanner myself, for faxes and assorted images. More often than not, I end up either retouching the images, or rescanning with different settings, and quite often pass them through image enhancement software afterwards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 31 08:22:43 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data Message-ID: <199803311422.AA24450@world.std.com> <> I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems <> they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by <> my acquisition of a MicroVAX 3800, with three intact disks overflowing <> with data that had apparently never been erased. This is something I've dealt with many times. Generally I try to preserve any software and delete data. Right now to give an idea, I aquired over 60 boxes of 8" disks with both. I will not go into the several hundred 5" disks and handful hard disks. I treat it as simply this, if I read it and it's not software I forget it. I have other things to do mostly. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 31 08:22:51 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Weekend haul Message-ID: <199803311422.AA24617@world.std.com> Some of this will be come available: This weekend I came into a real pile of stuff I classify as I would ahve liked to own it if I could have affforded it when new. 2 California Computer systems 2200 boxen both with external 8" floppies and one with an 8" hard drive (DISCUS). About 50-60 boxes of 8" floppies 33 of which are CPMUG and SIGM archives. Plus Docs, docs, docs. These seems to be intact and I expect they work buyt haven't powered them yet. 3 Visual 1050s, a pizza box with two floppies, detached keyboard and monitor on top. Two have hard disk boxes on the side. Also docs out the ears. Also a mountain of disks. All three work. Of the document excesses in the pile I must have 5 sets maybe more of DRI CP/M-80 and some CP/M+ docs plus redundant copies of wordstar, multiplan, Cbasic, and some DRI graphics tools. It filled the back of my toyota pickup and the cab. My current task is to inventory what I have. Allison From cad at gamewood.net Tue Mar 31 08:33:49 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Archiving docs References: Message-ID: <3520FECD.3927@gamewood.net> Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > I use a Fujitsu 600c to scan everything, using software that I wrote just > for archiving old manuals. I used the ImageBasic toolkit from Diamond Head > Software (purchased by my company for other purposes ;) ) that came > packaged complete with all kinds of neat utilities like de-speckle, > skew-fix, etc. It's nice to use because I set a few pre-set scanning modes > that set up the scanner for what I'm doing; noisy b/w, noisy colour, > text-only, detailed-graphics, etc. > > Some suggestions: > > 1) Try scanning text or any B/W pages in B/W mode. Since the bits can only > be white/black, it can automatically get rid of a lot of background noise. > > 2) I think the loss of detail on the schematics may be due to the > resolution of your scanner, as well as noise showing up because of the > greyscale setting. Try them B/W and just adjust the contrast/brightness > until you lose the noise. The nice thing about Photoshop is being able to > edit sections of the page at a time, so you could clean up each little > section as you go. > > 3) Depending on what kind of printer you have, you might try playing with > the half-tone/dithering settings as well. > > Most of my images of 8.5x11 are 50k-250k for B/W, 500k-1.5M for 16-shade, > and anywhere from 5-15 megs for colour (all at 600dpi). I usually print > them on an HP Laserjet 4si at 600dpi or an Apple LW16-600 with photo-grade > enabled. > > Aaron > > On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Doug Coward wrote: > > > I would like hear from anyone that has done any archiving of their > > classic computer documents and manuals. > > > > I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color > > resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving > > in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so > > pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning > > at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in > > 299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb > > for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned > > my first CD of docs consisting of 26 color pages and 170 B/W > > pages for a total of 454 Mb.( I didn't fill the CD bcause I was anxious > > to try printing the files at work.) > > I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today > > at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were > > lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have > > quite a bit of background clutter on the printed page. I'm having no > > problems seeing the smallest details when I magnify the pages in > > Photoshop. > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================= > > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > > Senior Software Engineer > > Press Start Inc. > > Sunnyvale,CA > > > > Curator > > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > > ========================================= > > Hi Folks: There is another thing that has an effect on output quality. That is trying to print at a different resolution than what the scan was done at. Possible to enlarge the image? yes. But do it by multiplying the scan dpi with an integer value to get the print dpi. Anything else, and _something_ (either you, or the software) is making a guess at the value of the intermediate pixles. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 31 08:42:55 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Archiving docs Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980331084255.00b81100@pc> "Doug Coward" wrote: > I would like hear from anyone that has done any archiving of their >classic computer documents and manuals. I agree with Aaron Finney's suggestions about using B/W "line art" mode when possible, and the advantages of a 600 dpi laser printer as opposed to 300 dpi. Also tinker with the JPEG compression settings, you may be surprised how much space that will save, and how little it will affect the images. Reload the saved images to examine the loss. Yesterday I noticed that the latest version of an image thumbnailing utility, ThumbsPlus, can save HTML versions of the thumbnailed pages. This may be a very good way to organize your images for the CD: it would make an HTML page, viewable in any browser, that showed all the thumbnail versions of the images, and you could click on any one to enlarge it. See where two fellows have laboriously scanned, OCRed and converted to Adobe Acrobat PDF files several documents including the Shugart SA-800 floppy service manuals and several Terak docs. An 18-page service manual with three-four pages of images is 262K. I plan to archive the ASR-33 service manuals and other Terak docs. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 31 09:38:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals References: <199803311354.IAA13528@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Message-ID: <35210E08.605AD6C9@bbtel.com> John Ott wrote: > If you still have the manuals, I'll buy them. They were spoken for the same hour I posted them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 31 09:46:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Apple Items FS/Trade Message-ID: <35210FE8.44481646@bbtel.com> Still have available: * SIMMS - 30 pin 1 mb non parity for Apple and Macs that utilize 30 pin SIMMs, not SIPPs or DRAMs. I have 8 of these. Seimens type with 5 large chips and two small chips. Asking $10.00 (shipped) for the set or even swap for 8 PC compatible 1mb 30 pin type. EMAIL directly to me for more info... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 31 09:48:44 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Mac 512k System FS/trade Message-ID: <3521105C.9CBC1493@bbtel.com> In addition to the previous Apple/Mac items message, I also have the following fine machine for sale or trade: --MAC 512k system which includes cpu/monitor unit with original 400k internal floppy, enhanced keyboard, mouse, printer, manuals, software and applicable cables. The unit was owned by a friend of mine since new and only needs a repair or replace of the floppy drive as it's getting old and sometimes doesn't read the disk, does other times. Great condition otherwise. Entire set $75.00 plus shipping or will consider trades of other PC compatible parts. I'll also include text on upgrading RAM to 1mb using common DRAMs piggybacked. Contact me if interested by direct reply... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 31 09:51:21 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: PC to S/34, 36 or 38 Set FS/Trade Message-ID: <352110F9.20F943C1@bbtel.com> [Repeat posting] I have a new, in the box, AST-5251/11 setup that allows a PC to communicate with an IBM 34/36/38 mainframe (?). It includes a thick manual, 5.25" and 8" floppies, twinaxial to adapter card cable w/tee, and the adapter card for an ISA slot. Still with the original overbox that shows all the features of this beauty. The box states that the card is an 8 bit, DMA selectable for PC/XT/AT, selectable interupt channel, on board high speed 8X305 processor, 5251-11/5291 or 5291-1 display terminal emulation, host addressable 5256 printer support on the PC's printer, concurrent host and PC sessions with hot key assist, bidirectional file transfers, and more. This is the enhanced version. I have no use for this and many of you are into connection to mainframes and minis, so make me an offer, whether it be cash or trade for PC compatible items. Also have a big box full of S/36 5.25" disks and manuals. Will post those as soon as I go through and inventory them. Email a reply direct to me, please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu Tue Mar 31 10:19:20 1998 From: jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals In-Reply-To: <35210E08.605AD6C9@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 31, 98 09:38:48 am Message-ID: <199803311619.LAA13702@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - Thanks for the reply. john > > John Ott wrote: > > > If you still have the manuals, I'll buy them. > > They were spoken for the same hour I posted them. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From mor at crl.com Tue Mar 31 10:34:08 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Weekend haul References: <199803311422.AA24617@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35211B00.36EDF2FC@crl.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > Some of this will be come available: > > This weekend I came into a real pile of stuff I classify as I would ahve > liked to own it if I could have affforded it when new. > > 2 California Computer systems 2200 boxen both with external 8" floppies > and one with an 8" hard drive (DISCUS). About 50-60 boxes of 8" floppies > 33 of which are CPMUG and SIGM archives. Plus Docs, docs, docs. These > seems to be intact and I expect they work buyt haven't powered them yet. Speaking of CCS stuff, there's an electronics store near me with a couple of NOS RAM boards (4K and 16K S-100 boards, with docs, never used, etc.) I'd be happy to pick them up for anyone. Oh yeah, the 4K is $255, and the 16K is $415. I've tried to talk them down a few miles, and the best they finally could do is let me have them at their cost: $175 and $290 respectively. Any takers? ;) -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 31 11:24:22 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Weekend haul Message-ID: <199803311724.AA22628@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35212ACA.77CCC43A@crl.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > > They are out of their minds! Those are 1978 new prices and by '82 64k of > static ram was less! The northstar cards were worth less. In 78 > I bought seals 8kx8 for $299 new! They don't have a clue about much of anything, and these boards are simply the peak of outrageousness. They've been sitting in the same spot with the same price sticker for 15 years and will probably be there next century. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 31 11:54:02 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: RL02 Positioning Question. Message-ID: <13344111554.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Here's a possibly stupid question... I may have mentioned it earlier, but I got a copy of PDPXASM and I'm playing with it. Just pitching code at the 11/83 to see what I can make it do... Anyway, I'm playing with telling the RL02 what to do. Push the head around, write things, etc... Anyway, Is there a way to, given the the sector number, figure the head/cylinder/sector? Also, is there some mechanism to keep me from screwing up and sending the heads below track 0 or past 512? By the figuring CHS question, I mean this: I want to make a single routine I can call to position the head whereever and dump a sector to disk, but I don't want to have to know the disk geometry to do it. I pass to it a unit number, RAM start address, and a sector number. Now how do I divide the sector number to get the C/H/S? And I don't want to have to use floating-point to do it... ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 31 12:01:19 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: available bits Message-ID: <199803311801.AA00146@world.std.com> I have the following for those interested: Two 19mb and a 10 mb Computer Memories hard disks 5.25" full height all have very bad stiction and and two are bad... Why would anyone want these? The logics are good and they have a R6522 and MC6803P in sockets. The 6803 is a 6800 with a few enhancements like internal ram, timer, serial and parallel IO and also bus for external program rom and ram. Or maybe someone would want to see the inside of a hard disk. If interested contact me. Allison From dastar at wco.com Tue Mar 31 12:40:19 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Weekend haul In-Reply-To: <35211B00.36EDF2FC@crl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Greg Troutman wrote: > Speaking of CCS stuff, there's an electronics store near me with a > couple of NOS RAM boards (4K and 16K S-100 boards, with docs, never > used, etc.) I'd be happy to pick them up for anyone. Oh yeah, the 4K > is $255, and the 16K is $415. I've tried to talk them down a few miles, > and the best they finally could do is let me have them at their cost: > $175 and $290 respectively. Any takers? ;) Tell who ever these turds are that they can stick both boards up their ass. In fact, tell me where this store is so I can go do it personally. When was their cost $175 and $290? In 1979? Do these people have even the vaguest concept of economics? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 13:34:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Linux problems (way off-topic) Message-ID: <19980331193442.9179.qmail@hotmail.com> I know this is not on topic, but I thought you guys could help. I recently installed Red Hat 3.0.3 (release, not kernel version) on my computer. It runs great and I am satisfied, but some games and programs can't seem to find certain libraries, though the libraries are there and in the right place. An example is "Unable to load 'blablabla' ; Exec Format Error" or "Unable to load 'blablabla' file not found". Keep in mind that all of this was on the Red Hat cdrom, so I doubt it's the wrong format. I also tried replacing the libraries with ones that I have used before and they worked. This did not help either. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Mar 31 11:09:54 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Apple ][+ Stuff In-Reply-To: <35209898.5C2DD0A2@navix.net> Message-ID: <199803311935.NAA29680@onyx.southwind.net> Cord: You still have all of that Apple ][ software? I need to get a bunch of applications, and AppleDOS for this ][+ for Tim Hotze. I think I gave you a list of things, on the list a Floppy for the Timer/CLock card. In Particular: *Thunderclock basic software by Thunderware for the Apple (Dos 3.3) (Hope you still have this) In general: ANy of the games that will work with an Apple ][+ Any development tools for A ][+ Manual for the Apple BASIC (again, for ][+) AppleDOS, and manuals, if any. So, I'll pretty much take whatever you have; right now I've nothing. Thanks! Jeff From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 31 11:22:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 In-Reply-To: <199803310155.UAA17456@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Mar 30, 98 08:55:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1209 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980331/65ab7e37/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 31 11:57:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Weekend haul In-Reply-To: <199803311422.AA24617@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Mar 31, 98 09:22:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 787 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980331/8c619223/attachment.ksh From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Mar 31 15:49:13 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Linux problems (way off-topic) References: <19980331193442.9179.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <352164D8.D3E875EC@goodnet.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > I know this is not on topic, but I thought you guys could help. I > recently installed Red Hat 3.0.3 (release, not kernel version) on my > computer. It runs great and I am satisfied, but some games and programs > can't seem to find certain libraries, though the libraries are there and > in the right place. An example is "Unable to load 'blablabla' ; Exec > Format Error" or "Unable to load 'blablabla' file not found". Keep in Make sure /etc/ld.so.conf has a complete list of all directories in which libraries can be found. That's the list of directories that it searches when looking for a library. From DiesIrrae at aol.com Tue Mar 31 16:32:45 1998 From: DiesIrrae at aol.com (Dies Irrae) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Old Data Message-ID: <35ac4ac8.35216f0f@aol.com> I have aquired many computers with old data on it. My theory is, "I won't see this guy again so I'll read his stuff anyway." I know it breaks his privacy, but it is not like I am going to start e-mailing all his friends, that would just be a waste of time. Any games or programs that I should not own (i.e. sensative material or beta's of software) I keep only because of the novelty. Those are my two cents, -Enrique! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 31 14:29:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: RL02 Positioning Question. In-Reply-To: <13344111554.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 31, 98 09:54:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1981 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980331/8c29e193/attachment.ksh From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Mar 31 17:13:18 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Xenix and Intel 5.25" disks Message-ID: <35216f8a.5021133@mail.swbell.net> I have had some disks for a long time and would like to give them to someone who has a need, a use, or even a clue as to what they are. Three have hand-written labels 1: XYLOGICS 450 XENIX DRIVER 503-450-405 tar cvbf 20 /dev/rdvfo DCM 7/86 2: XYLOGICS 450 XENIX utility 503-450-405 tar cvbf 20 /dev/rdvfo DCM 7/86 3: XYLOGICS 472 XENIX DRIVER 503-472-405 tar cvbf 20 /dev/rdvfo DCM 7/86 I can't do anything with them on a PC, Norton won't let me see a thing. I can see the sectors with my TI-99; #1 might not have valid data, but 2 and 3 do. The second line of the labels might be 905 instead of 405 and rdvf0 instead of rdvfo. There may be nothing useful on the disks, but... The other disks are original (not too fancy) Intel disks: 4: SYP 286/300 DIAGNOSTICS 19 MB, #1A DS/DD IRMX 86 FORMAT, 48TPI PART NO. 174133-001 (c) 1982, 1983 INTEL CORP. May not be copied without a license. Refer to price list for copying fees. #5, #6, #7 and #8 are identical except for the disk# and the part#: 5: #1B, PART NO. 174134-001 6: #2A, PART NO. 174135-001 7: #2B, PART NO. 174136-001 8: #2C, PART NO. 174356-001 If you want them, send an address, if they're not notable, I'll reformat them. All, with the possible exception of #1, all have data of some kind. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From yowza at yowza.com Tue Mar 31 17:29:44 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Xenix and Intel 5.25" disks In-Reply-To: <35216f8a.5021133@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Barry Peterson wrote: > I have had some disks for a long time and would like to give them to > someone who has a need, a use, or even a clue as to what they are. > > Three have hand-written labels > > 1: XYLOGICS 450 > XENIX DRIVER > 503-450-405 > tar cvbf 20 /dev/rdvfo > DCM 7/86 These look like tar backups, perhaps of drivers for a disk controller. You should be able to read them using a program called tar, which is a standard unix utility, but you can find PC versions too. > The other disks are original (not too fancy) Intel disks: > > 4: SYP 286/300 DIAGNOSTICS 19 MB, #1A > DS/DD IRMX 86 FORMAT, 48TPI > PART NO. 174133-001 > (c) 1982, 1983 INTEL CORP. These look like they're diagnostic disks for a proprietary Intel 286 box. iRMX was the name of Intel's real-time kernel, which they sold off to RadiSys a couple of years ago. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Mar 31 18:03:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro: 81-149C vs. 81-232 Message-ID: <199804010003.AA00480@world.std.com> A friend I work with donated the following book to my collection today: VIC-20 Interfacing Blue Book, by V.J. Georgiou Anyone seen this before? It is an incredibly neat book on hardware projects for the VIC-20, including such things as Liquid Level Sensor, ram expansion cards, eprom programmer for micromon, ring detector and lots more. It is overall a superb text. If you would like more info, let me know. I'm not interested in getting rid of the book but would be willing to share via scans or photocopies. ;) Cheers, Dan From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 31 18:25:21 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: RL02 Positioning Question. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13344182790.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [RL02 tech manual says...] I have the manual, I just wasn't sure about the math required. [11/83 should have an integer division] I'm using the 11/70 as my model, I do things under E11 and then on the actual hardware. That way if I blast E11 brutally, I'm not out a machine. (I.E. Seeking to track 670 or something...) ------- From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Mar 28 19:54:46 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:02 2005 Subject: RL02 Positioning Question. In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 1, 98 02:00:38 am Message-ID: <199804010154.UAA24190@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > > [RL02 tech manual says...] > > I have the manual, I just wasn't sure about the math required. > > OK.... Hope that helps. It makes sense when you think about it. > > > > > [11/83 should have an integer division] > > I'm using the 11/70 as my model, I do things under E11 and > > then on the actual hardware. That way if I blast E11 brutally, I'm > > not out a machine. (I.E. Seeking to track 670 or something...) > > Having played about inside RL drives, I'm pretty sure that you can't seek > the heads past the end stop anyway. It'll give you a seek error, but no > more. I've tried to step 512 cylinders in from the innermost track with > no problems. > > And the 11/70 certainly has integer division instructions. > > > > ------- > > > > -tony > The main trick with the RL02 is to remember there's no "Implied Seek" done on head switch... The drive was pretty stupid and due to the embedded servo things used to program older drives like the RK's wouldn't work on them. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Mar 31 20:23:51 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals Message-ID: <199804010223.VAA20071@webern.cs.unc.edu> You forgot the traditional motivator: "...or it goes in the dumpster". Bill. On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: ] I have the full documentation package for the Plus+ HardCard 20 which ] ... ] ] If anyone thinks they can use these in the US I'd take $5 for the ] package which basically covers me shoving it in an envelope and mailing ] it to you. Drop me a note, first come first served. From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Mar 31 20:34:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Hard card manuals References: <199804010223.VAA20071@webern.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3521A7CE.49503173@bbtel.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: > You forgot the traditional motivator: "...or it goes in the dumpster". True, but in the case of rural woodlands life and cold weather it becomes "or I use it to start my fireplace". ------------------------------------------------------------ Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Mar 31 21:01:38 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Old Data Message-ID: <199804010301.WAA20319@webern.cs.unc.edu> On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 "Seth J. Morabito" wrote: ] I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems ] they rescue/restore. As one facet of this, we might consider what people would do with their old systems, if they even got the *impression* that their private information might be read by a new owner. They might prefer to totally destroy the machine than to take a risk like that. In this respect, the actions of each collector impinges on all of us; it may take only one publicized breach of privacy to reroute a lot of old boxes to trash compactors that would have otherwise gone to collectors. It wouldn't even matter whether it was someone's personal love letters or a company's records. The impact would be the same. With this in mind, I suggest we adopt the common policy of wiping everything but obvious system software and such. There will always be the practical matter of determining which is which, but it seems best for all concerned to religiously respect privacy, irrespective of whether it is that of an individual or an organization. Cheers, Bill. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 31 22:03:12 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Old Data Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980331094941.2a47f9f0@ricochet.net> At 05:58 PM 3/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems >they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by The way I see it, if they want to make sure the data doesn't get out, they need to delete files. But, I wouldn't take someone's personal spreadsheet of their monthly finances and post it on the 'net, either. What I've done in the past is look at it, and then generally delete it. Why? Because it's generally boring as hell. Now, if I came across some Hubble stuff, and I knew how to use it/what it meant, I'd probably hang on to that. But only for my own personal use/interest. As I see it, when someone gives you a computer with data on it, they're giving you the data as well. However, they're not giving you license to sell that data to the Weekly World News. I'm working with Long's Drugs, a chain of pharmacies on the west coast. If I poked around in the store databases and told you that, say, Grace Hopper was taking birth control pills, that would definitely be an invasion of privacy. (and would likely get me thrown in jail.) However, there's nothing wrong with telling you that there are 13 women who go to the Serramonte store to get birth control pills. Same thing with e-mail, word processing documents, spreadsheets and the like. If your buddy Joe gives you his old computer, you should go poking around his old e-mail or wp files. If, however, you get a computer from company x that was used by employee y that you don't know, the data is only statistical. I think generally, it's a moot point because it's usually too uninteresting to keep around. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Mar 31 22:03:15 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Archiving docs Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980331100107.29279d9c@ricochet.net> At 11:03 PM 3/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm currently using a UMAX 300P that claims a maximum 24 bit color >resolution of 300x600 dpi. I'm scanning into Photoshop4 and saving I have the same scanner. >in JPEG format. I'm trying to save as much information as I can, so >pages that have any color besides black and white, I'm scanning >at 299 (that's the max for color) dpi in RGB and and everything else in >299 dpi grayscale. I'm averaging, for 8.5 x 11 pages, about 5.3 Mb Actually, 300 is the max without interpolation. Stuff that's truly B&W should be scanned in B&W mode. The problem is that grayscale picks up variations in print strength, smudges, etc. B&W says "This dot is more than x dark, it's black. This dot is less than x dark, it's white." >for color and 2.1 Mb for grayscale. Just last weekend I burned B&W will also save disk space. > I printed two of the highest detailed B/W pages (schematics) today >at 400 dpi. The results were disappointing. All of the fine details were The details will get smudged if you scan in grayscale. Also, print at the same dpi as you scanned; printing at a higher dpi won't do you any good, and your document will print 1/3 smaller. >lost. I assume I need to use a higher resolution for printing. I also have same as scanned. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From rexstout at uswest.net Tue Mar 31 22:54:50 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: <3521c317.21237739@mail.swbell.net> References: <3.0.16.19980331094941.2a47f9f0@ricochet.net> <3.0.16.19980331094941.2a47f9f0@ricochet.net> Message-ID: Hmmm... Interesting thread. Well, I like to take a look at what's on a hard drive before I delete everything(or rather IF I delete anything?), but in most cases it's so boring it's not worth the time it takes to look at it... I got a few 8088's from a mental health place, and they really wiped it good... Although there might be something readable through the screen burn- in ;-) Other times people sit there and delete stuff before it gets carted away, and sometimes they don't care(don't remember?), and you get all sorts of goodies... A Mac II I recently got had TONS of Word and Excel documents, but I deleted everything... It just didn't look interesting. Long gone by now, I reformatted the drive and upgraded the system software by the next day... Or there is the Mac LC II, which the person sat there after bringing it over and deleted a few things. Or there is the Series/1 minicomputer from an insurance place, I don't know if anything is on the drives or not and I won't find out until the system is running, but I doubt that they deleted anything... It would be too hard to set the system up again and go through everything to make sure, but I don't even know what they used it for. They did mention something about fiber-optic setups through one of the cards I couldn't ID... OK, back on subject. Anyways, it's kinda fun to go through the stuff, more so if it's deleted and you have to work on getting it back, and when it's already there it's usually boring. I'm not sure why. Those 8088's were completely wiped, nothing recoverable. And then there was the time I got a 386 and IBM laser printer previously from the Trailblazers office, which had an email program and some other stuff. Kinda fun to poke around in, but any documents/email was long ago deleted... Personally, I like getting interesting stuff off of the drives. I play around with the software, read some of the stuff on there, but it gets boring fast and I delete the stuff after a few days, mostly unread. Same goes for most of the software. And I kinda get depressed when I know they are deleting stuff from there... But when I get rid of computers, I just delete everything and get the OS back to normal(I didn't know an autoexec.bat file could get so big...) and sometimes reinstall it, but no interesting software or docs... My stuff is boring when it leaves, but I love getting the stuff. :-) As for where this entire thing started(that hubble stuff, right? or maybe that was somewhere else...), anything REALLY interesting, especially with possible historic value or sensitive info, I would contact the previous owners. Hehe... Maybe we should start an FTP site to upload all the interesting stuff we find on old computers ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sun Mar 29 00:10:40 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:03 2005 Subject: Installing VMS from RL02s Message-ID: <199804010610.WAA21966@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi All: I have acquired 4 RL02 packs with the VMS 5.2 distribution on them. The first one boots into standalone backup (>>> B DLA0) but I need to know how to start the installation procedure. I have some very basic docs on standalone backup, but a simple BACKUP DLA0: DUA0: fails with a couple of "device not mounted" errors. There's apparently a save set called VMS052.B on the first drive this filename is reported in the two "device not mounted" errors. BACKUP DLA0:VMS052.B DUA0: also fails as the /IMAGE qualifier is being assumed by the standalone backup utility, and of course /IMAGE requires only a device name. Any help appreciated! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Mar 30 06:58:03 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:04 2005 Subject: TRS-80 manuals In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980329151119.2fdf2210@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199804011759.MAA22195@smtp.interlog.com> On 29 Mar 98 at 17:24, Uncle Roger wrote: > Picked up the following Manuals: > > (2) User's Manual for Level 1 -- TRS-80 Micro Computer System > Line Printer VIII > Level II Basic Reference Manual > > They're available if anyone is interested. ($1 apiece, plus shipping.) > I'm in the woods when it comes to the TRS. What does the "Level" refer to ? Are these useable for a Model II ? If so I'm interested. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Mar 30 15:48:55 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:04 2005 Subject: RS 102 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980401095623.591f1df0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199804020249.VAA23591@smtp.interlog.com> On 1 Apr 98 at 9:56, Joe wrote: > I have a chance to buy a box full of Radio Shack model 102 portable > computers. None have been tested and there are no power supplies with > them. Does anyone know what voltage and polarity the external power > connector uses? And if there is any kind of self-test built-in? Can anyone > give me an idea of what these are worth? > > Joe > When you get them sorted out, keep me in mind. A trs mod 10n has been on my want list for awhile now. I believe there are several mod.100 web-sites out there and IIRC a mailing-list . ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 31 19:00:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:04 2005 Subject: RL02 Positioning Question. In-Reply-To: <13344182790.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Mar 31, 98 04:25:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 725 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980401/a9dd28e5/attachment.ksh From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Mar 31 19:55:18 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:05 2005 Subject: Special book find today Message-ID: <007201bd5d11$39746b00$44f438cb@nostromo> In my library of recent finds, along the same lines... Apple Interfacing Microcomputer - Alalog COnverter Software & Hardware Interfacing Interfacing & scientific data communications experiments Microcomputer interfacing with the 8255 PPI chip Interfacing to S-100 / IEEE 696 microcommputers They're all quite fascinating. Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: The Adept To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 10:27 AM Subject: Special book find today >A friend I work with donated the following book to my collection today: > VIC-20 Interfacing Blue Book, by V.J. Georgiou > From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Mar 31 22:39:09 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:05 2005 Subject: Old Data In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980331094941.2a47f9f0@ricochet.net> References: <3.0.16.19980331094941.2a47f9f0@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3521c317.21237739@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:03:12 -0600 (CST), you said: >At 05:58 PM 3/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >>I'm curious to know how people deal with old data found on systems >>they rescue/restore. The question was put in my mind recently by > >The way I see it, if they want to make sure the data doesn't get out, they >need to delete files. Yes, but: (It's one of those nights...) MANY folks have no clue about where their files are. A friend routinely corners me at church with a story about downloading a file and then *poof* it's gone. (She wants me to tell her where it is!) I recently got a computer from a property management company with all rentals/leases/evictions/etc. still there. Boring, even the software, so I reformatted the hard drive. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Mar 31 23:22:18 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:33:05 2005 Subject: Lobotomies... (was: Re: available bits) In-Reply-To: <199803311801.AA00146@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980401002218.00b44c20@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Allison J Parent typed: >Why would anyone want these? The logics are good and they have a R6522 >and MC6803P in sockets. The 6803 is a 6800 with a few enhancements like >internal ram, timer, serial and parallel IO and also bus for external >program rom and ram. Not to mention: If anyone has a lobotomized Tandy MC-10 (Micro Color Computer), it used the MC6803 for it's brain... It's the only classic machine that I know of that used this processor as the primary CPU. Hope the subject didn't scare ya!!! ;-) "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch@northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.