From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 1 00:22:22 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:34:58 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche Message-ID: OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). What on earth is this stuff? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 1 01:13:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:34:59 2005 Subject: Gone! I'm gone! (Temporarily) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980630231338.00e69400@mail.wa.jps.net> Oh, I'll be back. I'm simply going to unsubscribe until I get back from my annual scrounging trip to the Bay Area. Given that I've seen as many as 60+ messages/day, and I'll be gone for (effectively) ten days, I would prefer not to come home to 600+ messages! Have a fun and safe Fourth of July! I shall return!! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 01:17:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:00 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info Message-ID: <3599D467.62532680@bbtel.com> Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket PC Ref -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 02:36:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Win NT 3.5 Workstation FS/Trade Message-ID: <3599E6E0.E5CFB37A@bbtel.com> I have a full copy of Windows NT workstation 3.5 that was opened but never used to get out of my way. Any offers, cash or trades? I'm sure someone in this list has a need for it. More info email me direct please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 02:28:58 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Re[2]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin" (Jul 1, 0:41) References: Message-ID: <9807010828.ZM22293@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 1, 0:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin > > optional. You'd also need to allow the T-11 processor. > > Isn't the T11 a single chip? The one in my York Box certainly seems to be > a simple 40 pin plastic DIL package. Exactly! :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 02:47:09 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "DEC/X11 Fiche" (Jun 30, 22:22) References: Message-ID: <9807010847.ZM22314@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jun 30, 22:22, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche > OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche > today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of > DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling > it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I > would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). > What on earth is this stuff? It's the stuff I've been looking for for ages :-) If it's an inch thick, you only have a small part of it. But it is the listings of (some of) the XXDP diagnostics. It's common to refer to these so you can see what the setup options etc are for the various diagnostics. IIRC, a complete PDP-11 set took up most of a microfiche file box. Wasn't this stuff also on-line at Digital once upon a time? Names like STARS and TIMA come to mind too (my spelling might be wildly wrong, of course). What happened to all that information? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 1 08:15:13 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In Message-ID: <199807011102.NAA27257@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:33:09 PDT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Max Eskin" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM' >> [About first Computers/Zuses] >>Big ? Hmm. The Z1 could be described as a desktop computer, >>since Zuse (and his friends) bulid it on his parents kitchen >>table - but it tool up the whole table. > More questions, then: > What did they do? I guess they couldn't have been that powerful if the > ENIAC took up a whole building... The Z1 for shure, but compared to the ENIAC, the Z3 had a comprehensive calculating speed. One problem is the different technologie used - ENIAC used a 10 digit fixed point decimal system, while Zuse already used binary floating point like todays computers. The ENIAC could do 14 fixed point multiplication per second, while the Z3 did (only) 0.3 floating point. Its the old thing of big money vs. no money - or government fund projects vs. private - for the ENIAC, upenn had (almost) unlimited government money, while Zuse didn't get any singe cent - so he had to use junk telephone relais instead of new one, and this also is the reason why he used a relais system istrad of tubes - he just couldn't aford it - It's the same in all ages - if you don't have to count every transistor, byte, megabyte (M$) you'll use everything available. (The ENIAC-on-a-chip project also took 174,569 transistors to rebuild the function :) Zuse: >After the War was finally over, news of the University of Pennsylvania ENIAC machine went all round the world - "18,000 tubes!". We could only shake our heads. What on earth were all the tubes for? Schreyer and I parted company after the War. At that time it was prohibited to develop electronic equipment in West Germany.< They had plans for a 2000 tubes computer around 1937, but didn't get the money, since the authorities belived that the war wouldn't need it, because the planned two year development would be to late ... Helmut Schreyer had build a small experimental machine for calculating 10 Digit numbers with something around 100 tubes, running in 1944. Not a complete comuter - more like a calculator. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 06:21:23 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche Message-ID: <199807011121.AA13691@world.std.com> Diagnositic programs for the pdp-11. If you have no use, I wouldn't mind them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 06:27:10 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche References: Message-ID: <199807011127.AA15738@world.std.com> >IIRC, a complete PDP-11 set took up most of a microfiche file box. >Wasn't this stuff also on-line at Digital once upon a time? Names like >STARS and TIMA come to mind too (my spelling might be wildly wrong, of >course). What happened to all that information? You're right... it did take up a full box... As for Stars and TIMA, they're both around, and they still have some pdp-11 related information, but they seem to have been purged of much of it (One Architecture, One System, you know...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 1 07:45:31 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was In-Reply-To: <199807010151.AA28230@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jun 30, 98 09:51:51 pm Message-ID: <199807011245.IAA06530@shell.monmouth.com> > > Yes, the DCT11 (t-11) is a single chip... it has no memory management > (except for a strange implementation on one of the vax line... Venus, > I think...) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > The 11/790, er 11/860, er 8600/8650. I ran RT11 games on the RL02 front end at times. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 1 07:40:06 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden In-Reply-To: <01bda35d$058db160$3128a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> I used driver.sys. It worked for me. Joe At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? >manney@lrbcg.com > >> >>720K drives will work fine on the original drive controller AFTER you load >>the driver file. I've done it dozens of times to connect my NEC >>Multi-Speed drives to the PC. The only problem is that you can't boot from >>them since the driver has to be loaded for them to work. I don't *think* >>the 1.44 Mb drives will work on the controller though. >> >> Joe >> >>At 01:24 AM 6/27/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>> The 3.5" drive requires a special controller card that I find rare. Snag >>it! >>> >>>My IBM XT is looking worried. It's been running fine for years with the >>>original IBM controller linked to 2 360K drives and 2 720K 3.5" drives. >>>And you're telling it it shouldn't work? >>> >>>720K 3.5" drives work fine on the original IBM controller using a >>>suitable cable and not other mods. I believe drive A: should be a 360K >>>drive, but apart from that there's no real problem. >>> >>>-tony >>> >>> >> > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 11:26:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden References: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <359A634F.1A092CF2@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > I used driver.sys. It worked for me. > > Joe > > At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? Occasionally you need to add (or just use) the DRIVPARM= command in the Config.Sys, either by itself or with DRIVER.SYS. I reworked an Epson that wouldn't recognize the 1.44m floppy but it had a hi density controller. I guess the parameters for the drive weren't int he older BIOS. The addition of the DRIVPARM command fixed it fine. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Jul 1 11:37:18 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden References: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> <359A634F.1A092CF2@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <359A65BE.B844ED1A@halcyon.com> Yes, DRIVPARM does it for me on an old PC/XT where I have a 720KB drive. In fact, it's a 5.25-inch 720KB drive. Works great with Teledisk for transporting RX50 floppies to uPDP-11s and Rainbows. Dave Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > > I used driver.sys. It worked for me. > > > > Joe > > > > At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? > > Occasionally you need to add (or just use) the DRIVPARM= command in the > Config.Sys, either by itself or with DRIVER.SYS. I reworked an Epson that > wouldn't recognize the 1.44m floppy but it had a hi density controller. I guess > the parameters for the drive weren't int he older BIOS. The addition of the > DRIVPARM command fixed it fine. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 1 12:41:56 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M Message-ID: <9806018993.AA899340235@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 30, 18:04, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >> > Other people insist a microprocessor is one chip only. >> >> So I notice. But by that definition _none_ of the micro PDPs were true >> microprocessors, or at least none up until the 73. The Micro J-11 >> processor in the 73 was implemented as two chips on a large ceramic >> carrier. Was this also the case with later J-11s? > > Yes, it is. But if you allow a J-11 as a microprocessor, you must also > allow the F-11 (as in 11/23, 11/24) since it too has the complete CPU on > one (40-pin) carrier. The other devices that make up the chipset are truly > optional. You'd also need to allow the T-11 processor. I must admit I'd not met the T-11. I stand corrected. As for the F-11, hadn't I just agreed with Tony that a chipset like the F-11 was a microprocessor? Philip. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 12:35:00 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M In-Reply-To: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk "Re[4]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M" (Jul 1, 17:41) References: <9806018993.AA899340235@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <9807011835.ZM22637@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 1, 17:41, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > As for the F-11, hadn't I just agreed with Tony that a chipset like the > F-11 was a microprocessor? Sorry, having rapidly skimmed a boxful of emails, i thought you were saying something *slightly* different :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From wanderer at bos.nl Wed Jul 1 15:13:30 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: RL02 ID number button Message-ID: <359A986A.1AE4@bos.nl> >The encoding scheme is quite simple, actually, and the answer is that >you >can't make a 2 or a 3 from a 1 or a 0 > >The explanation is as follows. There are 2 pegs at the sides of the >lamp >cap, each with 2 edges (top and bottom). Each edge is either cut down >or not. > >An edge which isn't cut down closes a contact in the lampholder (there >are 4 such contacts, of course). An edge which is cut down doesn't. > >One edge is always present (not cut down). This contact tells the drive >that there is a cap fitted. > >The other 3 edges set the drive ID. One isn't used (it is on the RK07, >etc). The other 2 form a binary code, with the contact closed = 1. So >you >can change a '1' bit into a '0' bit by filing down the appropriate >edge. >But you can't change a '0' into a '1'. And the latter is what you'd >need >to do to make a 2 or a 3. Just unloaded the 11/24 from the car and did take the number plugs out. If the only problem is the edge, then applying a drop of 2 component epoxy glue and file the excess away after hardening should then do the trick, would is not? Edward -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 1 14:59:23 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info In-Reply-To: <3599D467.62532680@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a > Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. > > I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket > PC Ref Pages 330/331 of the 6th edition. Not really worth much as it is only a 43mb drive. Parameters are: hds 5 cyl 989 spt 17 rwc 990 wpc 128 seek 28 intfc ST-506/ST-412 Not ESDI, as you can see. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 1 12:34:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was In-Reply-To: <199807010315.AA22638@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jun 30, 98 11:15:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/1cf22f23/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Wed Jul 1 16:28:51 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: XEROX 860 IPS References: <359589F6.187F@gamewood.net> Message-ID: <359AAA13.1051@gamewood.net> Charles A. Davis wrote: > > Hi Folks: > > I was donated a XEROX 860 IPS. Portrait oriented Hi-Res display, 2 8" > floppies. Keyboard with a circular 'touch pad' on the right end (of the > keyboard) > > The Problem? I was just getting to the point of trying to 'backup' the > software (disks), and look around in the system, and the 12v portion of > the power supply died. No 12v, no boot. > > Anyone have any schematics for the power supply? > The silence has been deafining!!!!. Well, let's make the queestion a bit broader --- I.E. Anybody know ANYTHING about the '860 IPS'. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 17:35:45 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 References: Message-ID: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a 286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either 1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and hangs. does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! -Eric From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 17:47:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 In-Reply-To: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Poesie wrote: > I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a > 286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. Yes, gas plasma, a 286 and 20MB disk. > problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either > 1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and > hangs. > > does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that > is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice > would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! Your CMOS battery is probably dead. When it tells you that have a CMOS problem, it should give you the option to change the CMOS values. You can also try booting from a DOS floppy. You should be able to find diagnostics and setup disks from Toshiba's web site: www.toshiba.com. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 1 16:49:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: RL02 ID number button In-Reply-To: <359A986A.1AE4@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Jul 1, 98 08:13:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1177 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/2e163981/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 18:07:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: Respond directly to the seller, not to me, if you want his Lisa 2. If it turns out to be a Lisa 1, don't tell me about it :-) -- Doug ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:27:07 +0000 From: Rich Bull Subject: LISA Mine has a 5 or 10 meg hard drive....Its a completed system with mouse and keyboard and is in exceptional condition...neat little machine...If your interested I need $200.00 and you pay shipping... Thanks rbull@mail.smu.edu Richard E. Bull email: rbull@mail.smu.edu Information Technology Services voice: (214)768-3450 Southern Methodist University Fax: (214)768-9999 Dallas, Texas 75275-0262 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 18:13:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? >Respond directly to the seller, not to me, if you want his Lisa 2. If it >turns out to be a Lisa 1, don't tell me about it :-) > >-- Doug >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:27:07 +0000 >From: Rich Bull >Subject: LISA > >Mine has a 5 or 10 meg hard drive....Its a completed system with mouse and >keyboard and is in exceptional condition...neat little machine...If your >interested I need $200.00 and you pay shipping... > >Thanks >rbull@mail.smu.edu > >Richard E. Bull email: rbull@mail.smu.edu >Information Technology Services voice: (214)768-3450 >Southern Methodist University Fax: (214)768-9999 >Dallas, Texas 75275-0262 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 18:24:10 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? You're asking if somebody is willing to pay the asking price for a machine which has just been announced as available to this list? If the answer is yes, the machine will be gone. If the answer is no, it will still be available to you. FWIW, a Lisa 2 went for $1500 on eBay not too long ago (probably to somebody who didn't know the difference). -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Jul 1 18:38:28 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 1, 98 04:13:12 pm Message-ID: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/11dea4b5/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jul 1 18:35:59 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 In-Reply-To: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980701183559.006a64a0@pop3.concentric.net> one of two ways will get you in 1) hold down the Fn key and turn the unit on or 2) hold down the Esc key and turn the unit on. Good luck John At 05:35 PM 7/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a >286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. >problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either >1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and >hangs. > > does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that >is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice >would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! > >-Eric > > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 1 19:22:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Misc. DEC Boards Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E95B@mail.simconv.com> While checking some boxes in the computer room, I found these old spare DEC Q-Bus parts. They actually belong to the company but if you are willing to pay shipping plus trade something (cash is ok too) I can let them go. AFAIK all boards were pulled from working systems several years ago. Contact me at peacock@simconv.com MicroVAX I board set and cabinet kit (serial console connector) 4MB third party Q-BUS memory card, no RAMs (takes 256K DIPs), works great w/uVAX I CPU (you need VMS 5.0 for this, 5.1 and later not supported) ------------------- 11/23 CPU board and cabinet kit (2) DEC memory boards (I think 256KB and 128KB, not sure) both memory boards were with the 11/23 ------------------- MicroVAX 3500 CPU (KA650) board, no cabinet kit (might have it, not sure) (2) 8MB memory boards for the KA650 (this CPU has the older boot ROM, no SHOW command) -------------------- KDA50 disk controller 2 board set (was with the 3500) -------------------- RL02 Q-Bus disk controllers (2) I think RLV21s, have to look -------------------- 12MB expansion memory for a VAXStation 2000 -------------------- (6) DEPCA ethernet boards for ISA bus, old ones w/48KB buffers (all modified for Pathworks drivers) If you have stuff to trade, I could use any of the following: TK50 drive w/SCSI interface (TZ30 or TK50-G) internal preferred 16MB 72pin SIMMs (x32 or x36, EDO or FPM) IDE or SCSI disk drives 1GB or bigger 4mm or 8mm tape drives a flatbed scanner that works with Win95 a Q-BUS IDE or SCSI disk controller useful S-100 boards (tell me what you got) Atmel 89C2051 ucontrollers a monitor that works with the GPX board set in a uVAX II Cyrix 686 or Pentium 166 CPU chip (working on a flaky Motherboard) 33.6 modem ISA card that works with NT4 memory for an Alpha 500au or if you have something else to trade, let me know, make an offer. not interested in consumer computer stuff (i.e. apple, IBM PC, amiga etc.) Jack Peacock From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 19:12:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would > go after myself. So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd turn it down? Whenever I see a system I want, I go through several rationalization exercises. The first is "new systems cost much more and are much less interesting." If that doesn't work, there's always "I haven't bought a new car in a while, so I'll get this instead." Then there's "if I value my time at $X/hour, and it would take me more than Y hours to find this thing on my own, then it's worth at least $X*Y to buy it from this guy." For small stuff, I have a simple metric: sheer frivolous entertainment is worth about $3/hour to me (e.g., movies: $6, magazine: $3, a good book: $12, etc.), so if I can gain at least $X/3 hours of enjoyment from the object, that's a buy signal. -- Doug From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 1 17:13:28 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Never pass an $8 computer [Apple IIc swapmeet story] Message-ID: <199807020149.RAA17062@next.ireadyco.com> Hi, So I bought two Apple IIcs last year, one from at the Capitola Swap Meet for $8 with no power supply and a bad keyboard and the other at a ham radio swap meet for $15 with the cute little monitor, stand, power supply, TV adapter, printer and a bunch of other junk [Printshop and... what a thrill- typing tutor!] I bought the two machines some time apart from each other and was moving about the time I picked up the second. So finally today I found that the first one work while the complete system I bought is broken. Well... it's no problem since I can make one working model out of two. Fortunately the first one also has a case with no yellowing problem. The moral of the story: Never pass up a $8 retro-computer... even if it's broken and incomplete! Thomas From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Jul 1 20:09:29 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) References: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <359ADDC9.3256F2BC@exit109.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > > > > > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? > > Personally? Maybe. This is really a 'Per-Collector' question, I suppose. > I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would > go after myself. For this particular machine, I'd have to say $200 is > a little high, but might be worth it considering what some others have > gone for. > > As for the >$1000 E-bay Lisa, I'd just have to say "No way, no how, > nuh-uh." That is far, far too much money. I have to admit that I noticed the $1000 eBay Lisa and the two $300 Osborne 1's and it did get me wondering... Personally, I'd never pay it; I have enough trouble rationalizing $1000 for a new Pentium or PowerPC. As for that much for a "collectible", it's the same reason I still don't have a Mac Portable... I won't pay what people seem to think is the going rate (> $200 for a 1MB 68000-based system). OTOH, I already own both a Lisa 2 and an O-1. The former cost me about $100, spent $20 at a time to piece it together, and includes 1MB of RAM, docs, and the Sun Remarketing SCSI board. The O-1 is a later model (same as the one on eBay) and cost me $30, including Osborne modem, DD upgrade, and 80-column upgrade. Both are currently sitting in storage because I have no room to keep them set up nor time to use them. There are days when I wonder if I would not be better off auctioning them off, taking the money and running. Better yet, just go on the 'net and offer an even swap of the Lisa for a G3 PowerMac... at least I might find time to use the PowerMac. The eternal conundrum... <<>> From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Jul 1 20:20:29 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: QuantumLink AOL lore... References: <199806300702.AAA20804@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359AE05D.A104B13F@goldrush.com> Actually... Quantum Computer Services started off Quantum Link from the old Commodore 64 Play-Net network and later developed Apple and PC link as those developed (from the old Q-Link system) Quantum Computers changed their name to AOL and later shut down the Commodore Q-Link service after leting it suffer a slow-agonizing demise for a few years. Pitty, it was a good service. There are still a bunch of Q-Link ideosyncracies in the system such as 10 character screen names. There is a web page out there that gives the whole story, I came across it a while back in my surfing. Hopefully Doug Coward will read this and fill us in better, as he was an actual Q-Link employee for many years (read he actually worked there, not a Q-Guide or some sub-op position). -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Jul 1 20:45:48 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 1, 98 07:12:42 pm Message-ID: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/d755b24a/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 21:20:08 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Message-ID: <199807020220.AA01022@world.std.com> I agree a very fancy data path/alu chip. Message-ID: <359AF24A.5F06A6BD@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a > > Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. > > > > I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket > > PC Ref > > Pages 330/331 of the 6th edition. Not really worth much as it is only a > 43mb drive. Parameters are: Now I know why I'm going for an eye exam. I have the sixth and must have overlooked it as it's not good enough to get the pages stuck together ;-) Thanks much -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 1 22:49:45 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: History Timeline Message-ID: Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet history timeline is now converted to HTML and I've put it up on my web site. I'd really appreciate your criticisms, corrections and suggestions. Gotta warn you, though, it's a pretty big file so you prolly shouldn't try to access it with those 1200 baud modems. It's also big in dimension - you'll need a 20" monitor to view the whole table without side-scrolling. http://www.warbaby.com/FG_test/Timeline.html Before y'all get too harsh with your crits, please bear in mind that it's a first draft. I've got more info to fill in, formatting to diddle with, and text to rewrite and edit. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Jul 1 22:20:01 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: History Timeline Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980701231947.006be4c0@netpath.net> At 07:49 PM 7/1/98 -0800, Rax wrote: >Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet And thanks for the equally noble effort at spelling my last name. It's Higginbotham. :) Good work on the timeline. Hope to see it develop more in the future. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From rexstout at uswest.net Wed Jul 1 22:33:31 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: Saved a Compaq Portable(w/5.25" FD and unknown 5.25" FH HD) from a dumpster... AFTER a 10 foot flight into it! Plugged it in and it still works... Needs some repairs, I can hear stuff rattling around inside, but it does work... Booted from the hard drive with Compaq DOS 3.31. Also got a MasterSport 386SL(386SX-20, 4MB RAM, 63MB HD) and a 486 motherboard(gonna set it up with Linux or something). Also getting a 1970 VW Bug for my birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one to replace the broken plastic one). -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 22:55:16 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help Message-ID: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 23:16:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <359B09A7.5CFDD645@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. I have a microchannel card for a PS/2 that's supposedly the controller card for a HP scanner. It has the 25 pin d-sub connector on it. Didn't you say you had a microchannel model PS/2?? You're welcome to this card if you think it will work for you. Drop me a direct email if so. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 1 23:19:52 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Allison, from an earlier Usenet post: > I have a Hewlett Packard Scanjet Plus without any docs, etc.. I was able > to get very little info from the "hp" ftp site on this unit. It has what > looks like a standard parallel port 36-pin connector on it, but from what > I can tell, it is a "special" interface - NOT SCSI. I guess hp carries It's a custom duplex centronics interface, developed by HP, and used (in slightly different versions) only on the 9190A ScanJet and 9195A ScanJet Plus. The ScanJet version was product number 88290A, which presumably works only on the 9190A. The Plus card was 88295A or 88296A, and reportedly works on both. They were developed years before ECP/EPP/IEEE-1284, so a normal PC parallel port is no substitute. The later ScanJets (IIc, IIcx, 2p, 3p) have a McSCSI interface. - don From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:35:31 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <359B0E13.3E32@geocities.com> yeah, the HP scanjets all(?) come with their own scsi interface card, that has basically a DB-25 plug that connects to the scanner. however, if you have any 50pin centronics to scsi, you can use that just fine too; more or less, HP distributed the interface card because most PC owners don't tend to have SCSI :) PS. I have some cards & HP deskscan software from a couple units i picked up, email if interested. yadda, yadda, yadda... Allison J Parent wrote: > > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. > > Allison From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:42:09 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: Message-ID: <359B0FA1.5798@geocities.com> Whoops. my bad. Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: <---snip---> They were developed years before > ECP/EPP/IEEE-1284, so a normal PC parallel port is no substitute. The > later ScanJets (IIc, IIcx, 2p, 3p) have a McSCSI interface. > > > - don From samuels at telcel.net.ve Wed Jul 1 23:41:29 1998 From: samuels at telcel.net.ve (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Samuel_Sosa_Rodr=EDguez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: On Epson Px-8 Geneva Message-ID: <000501bda573$aefed400$8dc388d0@samuel> Dear friend, Please i need of your help, in this moment i am using a Epson PX-8 Geneva, i need use the micro-cassette drive in the CP/M and the BASIC resident, you can help me, please send me command (CP/M and Basic) for this micro-cassette drive and more usefull command of CP/P (I only use Windows and DOS), all information on this great machine what you can send me, Tank you very Much for you great Help. From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:53:11 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: zeos laptops... Message-ID: <359B1237.4B03@geocities.com> ok... this isn't classic, but does anyone have a line on zeos laptop parts for ~486 and up? have some strange little units that are lacking unique parts. thanks.. -Eric From rexstout at uswest.net Wed Jul 1 23:52:49 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: On Epson Px-8 Geneva In-Reply-To: <000501bda573$aefed400$8dc388d0@samuel> Message-ID: >Please i need of your help, in this moment i am using a Epson PX-8 Geneva, i >need use the micro-cassette drive in the CP/M and the BASIC resident, you >can help me, please send me command (CP/M and Basic) for this micro-cassette >drive and more usefull command of CP/P (I only use Windows and DOS), all >information on this great machine what you can send me, The tape drive can be accessed via the function keys at the top of the keyboard, but I don't remember exactly how. I haven't played with my PX-8 in a while. But it can be kinda tricky to use(not just the tape drive, the entire computer. I just can't get used to that little display...). -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jul 1 23:54:26 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com's message of Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:55:16 -0400 References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807020454.VAA17569@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. This is the original HP ScanJet. > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Yes, it needs an additional interface that looks a lot like a duplex parallel interface but is not like today's enhanced PC parallel port. Bob Niland has a canned FAQ that he posts to comp.sys.hp.hardware whenever this question comes up there. If you can webulate, you can find it pretty easily in DejaNews. Be advised that the gist of said FAQ is "forget it, if it breaks it'll need expensive fixing and is probably not worth your trouble." -Frank McConnell From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 2 00:12:01 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? The real question is, how much is it worth to you? It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 2 00:34:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, John Rollins wrote: > birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt > clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one > to replace the broken plastic one). Don't feel bad. It could be worse. Take for example the fact that my laptop hard drive physically crashed thanks to Windows 98. Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From rax at warbaby.com Thu Jul 2 03:47:07 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: History Timeline In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980701231947.006be4c0@netpath.net> Message-ID: >At 07:49 PM 7/1/98 -0800, Rax wrote: >>Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet > >And thanks for the equally noble effort at spelling my last name. It's >Higginbotham. :) Good work on the timeline. Hope to see it develop more in >the future. > Mea culpa. It's just one of those days when I'm trying to do too many things at once and not paying enough attention to any one of them. I once had a brother-in-law named Hickenbottom, and in the course of making sure I didn't confuse the two names and refer to you as Higgenbottom, I got the last part right and screwed up the beginning. Duh. R -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From kevan at heydon.org Thu Jul 2 03:44:25 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Mailing List Archives... Message-ID: After a few month pause, the archives of ClassicCmp are now working again at this new URL: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/ I hope people will find them usefull. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From blindpete at stratos.net Wed Jul 1 18:35:15 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info Message-ID: <199807020938.CAA31628@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Hi every One I found a web page that was helpfull when I was looking for drive specs ect, it is: www.fdisk.com It has links to a lot of interesting pages, including links to hard drive manufactures and search for. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 2 07:31:03 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <199807021017.MAA21569@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would >> go after myself. > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd turn it > down? Depends on the situation - If I don't have it (the money), I would just pass. If it's a single talk, I would try to barter for the price. If its a competition, I think I'll have to pass since USD 1000 wouldn't be the last call. > Whenever I see a system I want, I go through several rationalization > exercises. The first is "new systems cost much more and are much less > interesting." Yep > If that doesn't work, there's always "I haven't bought a new car in a > while, so I'll get this instead." Thats only the irrational exit if the rational way says no. > Then there's "if I value my time at $X/hour, and it would take me more > than Y hours to find this thing on my own, then it's worth at least $X*Y > to buy it from this guy." Nice, I have a similar system, used not only for computers. > For small stuff, I have a simple metric: sheer frivolous entertainment is > worth about $3/hour to me (e.g., movies: $6, magazine: $3, a good > book: $12, etc.), so if I can gain at least $X/3 hours of enjoyment from > the object, that's a buy signal. Hmm, don't fit my intention - 10 minutes of 'boh ey' it's mine could be more worth than 0.5 USD :) One of the nice things in collecting old computes and other stuff is that one could find things _unbeliable_worthy_ for zero money (or almost), since the value ist more determinated by our private idea about this particular thing. Example: I aquired some weeks ago two sealed ROM cards for the Apple II. They are just cheap (custom) ROM boards covered with blue resin (? Giessharz in German - don't know the exact term in english). Early designs of softwareprotection true hardware. They are complete worthless in any sense, but I enjoy it a lot to own them. So, whats the price ? If the owner had asked 20 USD, I would never had paid it. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 2 09:53:52 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <199807021240.OAA04284@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. It should be only a minor correction - just adding a 2^1 bit to get Win97, but due a litte mathematical problem they realy inverted the lower nibble before inverting the 2^1 .... :) The rest is history:) Grins H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From buck_c at polygon.com Thu Jul 2 09:58:15 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Misc. DEC Boards References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E95B@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: <359BA007.1F534059@polygon.com> I'd love to trade you for the KA650 board set. I don't have anything on your list, however. How much cash would you want? -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:15:49 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980702181549.12461.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I am letting three Compaq deskpros rot in the rain outside- I just have nothing for them to do. I'm sure they still work. Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? >Saved a Compaq Portable(w/5.25" FD and unknown 5.25" FH HD) from a >dumpster... AFTER a 10 foot flight into it! Plugged it in and it still >works... Needs some repairs, I can hear stuff rattling around inside, but >it does work... Booted from the hard drive with Compaq DOS 3.31. Also got a >MasterSport 386SL(386SX-20, 4MB RAM, 63MB HD) and a 486 motherboard(gonna >set it up with Linux or something). Also getting a 1970 VW Bug for my >birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt >clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one >to replace the broken plastic one). > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | >| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | >| Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | >-------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:23:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Thu Jul 2 14:03:21 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: <19980702181549.12461.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. ok r. From erd at infinet.com Thu Jul 2 14:09:26 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Any good search spots in L.A.? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 2, 98 03:03:21 pm Message-ID: <199807021909.PAA16111@user2.infinet.com> Howdy, all, I'm in sunny Glendale for the weekend, staying with a friend, and would love to take the opportunity to scour the area for goodies. Any suggestions? I'd rather take a planned approach than wander around the valley, looking for Goodwills. I realize that the Bay Areais better pickings than Los Angeles, but here is where I am. Later, -ethan From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Jul 2 16:32:19 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> I recently found a large number of hard sectored 8" disks and I was hoping some one might knows what computers would use these disks. * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index holes in the jacket) * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ Memorex compatible. (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) I could not find a web page for Dysan, I searched Memorex's and Verbatim's pages and I emailed Memorex and got no reply. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:21:07 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980702212107.23230.qmail@hotmail.com> What happened to wall sockets? >Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. > >ok >r. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 2 16:32:21 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: Wern't the original Altair 8 inch drives hard sectored? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Doug Coward wrote: > I recently found a large number of hard sectored 8" disks and > I was hoping some one might knows what computers would use > these disks. > > * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: > 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard > sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index > holes in the jacket) > > * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, > Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard > (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) > > * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard > * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ > Memorex compatible. > (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are > arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is > a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) > > I could not find a web page for Dysan, I searched Memorex's and > Verbatim's pages and I emailed Memorex and got no reply. > > > > > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= > > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 2 16:41:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <199807022141.AA16894@world.std.com> < * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: < 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard < sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index < holes in the jacket) These are flippies, you turn the over to use the other side. Hence two index openings. < * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, < Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard < (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) Exactly. < * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard < * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ < Memorex compatible. < (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are < arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is < a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) old style hardsector Ony a few drives used that style. Allison From red at bears.org Thu Jul 2 16:43:36 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Apple //gs composite video prob Message-ID: Hi. I just picked up a ROM v01 //gs at a thrift shop. The colour composite video it generates is very badly artifacted. On my ][plus, there is a 'colour trim' adjustment which I would expect to correct this on the mainboard, but I didn't see anything like this on the //gs. Also, the colours are pale and incorrect when I use my Apple // RGB monitor (the one with the electric tilt) on the RGB port. This monitor doesn't work on the RGB port of my //c at all, so I'm wondering if it's just a matter of not being quite the right monitor for the //gs (which has, if I recall, a monitor more closely styled along Mac lines). Thoughts or hints? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:26:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Jul 1, 98 06:45:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/48b47a60/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:42:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807021017.MAA21569@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 2, 98 12:32:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/5832b7f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:45:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: <199807021240.OAA04284@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 2, 98 02:54:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 369 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/b38b7d63/attachment.ksh From g at kurico.com Thu Jul 2 17:50:51 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Jul 1, 98 06:45:48 pm Message-ID: > > > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd > > > turn it down? > > > > Well, actually I probably would. (Again, this is _ME_ personally here > > :) I can't speak for anyone else) > > Actually, nor would I. The Apple 1 is not the sort of machine that I'm > interested in. So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. I get no excitement from a Picasso, but if someone were to try to sell me one for $2000, you're damn straight I'd be all over that thing (assuming of course it wasn't hot, ie it is the sellers ignorance that they are selling that low). Factors that I consider are (not necessarily in order) - how badly do I want it - how much spare money do I have to acquire it - if I don't want it that badly, how much could I make off of it. - is it interesting and about to be tossed (i.e. should it be rescued) A perfect example being, if I could pick up a Lisa2 for $50, I most certainly would. Personally I don't want one (already got one), but I know that I could sell it for a _lot_ more. I know this concept goes against the beliefs of some members, just call me a slimeball capitalist. But on an Apple 1, that $29000 profit would go a long way to paying off debt, going towards the mortgage, paying for my kids tuition, etc. Anyway, my 00000010 cents George From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jul 2 17:59:39 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980702175939.006a1b84@pop3.concentric.net> Yes there is a card you need to place inside your machine and software. You can still download the software from HPO's site. Good luck on the interface card. John At 11:55 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > >I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is >an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like >parallel printer cable. Any info may help. > >Allison > > > > From peacock at simconv.com Thu Jul 2 18:31:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E966@mail.simconv.com> -----Original Message----- From: George Currie [mailto:g@kurico.com] > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. I have a slot machine in my living room (and yes its legal, I live in Nevada). I could sell it for several times what I paid for it (even more if I sell it no questions asked), but it's there because I think the internal mechanisms are a work of art. I have some old radios from the 30's, again, I could sell them for more than I have invested, but the radios are there because they are works of engineering art too, for my enjoyment. And I enjoy owning them more than what the money I would get from them would bring me. The same with the computers. I'm sure I could get a good price for my '77 vintage IMSAI, in fact I got a few email offers the first time I mentioned it, but I'm not going to sell it. I bought it to own my own computer, I learned just about all I know about digital electronics from the years prototyping on it, and it still has a prominent place on my work table at home. It's a work of art too, even more because I put it together myself, I made it work, and I've kept it going all these years without help from anyone else. I put far more money into that machine than I ever got back in business, but that doesn't matter. Every dollar I spent on it paid off in other ways, personal satisfaction, knowledge, even entertainment at times. I don't buy equipment, be it computers, radios, or slot machines, because I think I'll make money on the deal. I do other things to make a living, I'll leave investing in antiquities and object d'art to the experts. Jack Peacock From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 2 18:36:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: FW: DECStation 3100 available In-Reply-To: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> References: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <35a01944.1312559991@smtp.wa.jps.net> I hope the list will take this while I'm unsubscribed... This fellow wants to sell a DECStation 3100. If interested, please contact him directly. Have a great holiday! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:19:53 -0400, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "a.banerjee" >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: FS or trade: Digital Vaxstation 3100 >>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:19:53 -0400 >>Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA, USA >>Lines: 10 >>Message-ID: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> >>Reply-To: a.banerjee@larc.nasa.gov >>NNTP-Posting-Host: satest2.larc.nasa.gov >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.0.154.208!ais.net!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!jamie!Qual.Net!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!reznor.larc.nasa.gov!not-for-mail >> >>not a dec person so any help identifying would be appreciated. >> >>digital vaxstation 3100 (no keyboard, mouse, disk or monitor) >>back has model # vs42a-bc >> >>make an offer or trade. >> >>please reply to bigshoe@erols.com >>thanks -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 17:56:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Jul 2, 98 02:32:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 966 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/e6f9238f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 18:49:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "George Currie" at Jul 2, 98 05:50:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/7e4b8f13/attachment.ksh From gene at ehrich.com Thu Jul 2 18:57:05 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Old, New & Ancient computer items for sale In-Reply-To: <3597DF54.744B5DFB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807022355.QAA03382@mxu2.u.washington.edu> I have lots of old 8 bit & PC hardware and software for sale on my web site listed below. Come take a look. ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 2 19:00:18 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Side story here. I was offered and Apple 1 a couple of years ago. I bid $3000 untested and $4500 powered up and working. I thought it was a done deal so called back the next night to arrange the trade (Had a chance to inspect so knew what I was buying). The owner rather contritely said they couldn't pass on another offer. The other offer was for $16K and went to the Woz himself. I hear that machine is now on display in DeAnza College. I'm disappointed the owner forgot about our done deal when Woz's offer came through (I'm sure Woz had no idea about our agreement), but in some small way I got what I wanted in that the unit is on display (Or better be on display) in Cupertino. Came really close to getting one of those machines (Sniff..Sigh). George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, George Currie wrote: > > > > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd > > > > turn it down? > > > > > > Well, actually I probably would. (Again, this is _ME_ personally here > > > :) I can't speak for anyone else) > > > > Actually, nor would I. The Apple 1 is not the sort of machine that I'm > > interested in. > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is > potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to > believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of > making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, > wouldn't pass up such a bargain. I get no excitement from a Picasso, but if > someone were to try to sell me one for $2000, you're damn straight I'd be all > over that thing (assuming of course it wasn't hot, ie it is the sellers ignorance > that they are selling that low). > > Factors that I consider are (not necessarily in order) > > - how badly do I want it > - how much spare money do I have to acquire it > - if I don't want it that badly, how much could I make off of it. > - is it interesting and about to be tossed (i.e. should it be rescued) > > A perfect example being, if I could pick up a Lisa2 for $50, I most certainly > would. Personally I don't want one (already got one), but I know that I could > sell it for a _lot_ more. I know this concept goes against the beliefs of some > members, just call me a slimeball capitalist. But on an Apple 1, that $29000 > profit would go a long way to paying off debt, going towards the mortgage, > paying for my kids tuition, etc. > > Anyway, my 00000010 cents > > George > From gene at ehrich.com Thu Jul 2 18:59:02 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: For Sale Lists on the WEB (was Re: OS/2 Warp) In-Reply-To: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807022357.QAA23995@mxu1.u.washington.edu> At 11:23 AM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp >here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. > >______________________________________________________ I have copies for sale on my web site listed below: http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Lot's of For Sale lists. Bookmark it and check back often for updates. Gene Ehrich From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jul 2 19:31:57 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980703001842.AAA23555@emusp6> Hi all, THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. but don't blame you for forawarding the wrong subject ;-)) cheers, emu From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 2 19:25:47 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available In-Reply-To: <19980703001842.AAA23555@emusp6> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up from Santa Clara, Ca. -- Doug From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Jul 2 20:03:28 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: old AOL disks Message-ID: <19980702180328.006e584d.in@mail.pressstart.com> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? >Before it was known as Applelink it was called "Samuel" and worked with >the apple ][ as well. >Q-Link or Quantum link came first for the C64 and then was expanded >to include the Apple II. Once upon a time in the early 80's a man named Bill von Meister started a company called Control Video Corporation. (Bill von Meister had been one of the founders of The Source which was bought by Readers Digest) CVC started a service for Atari 2600 users called GameLine. Users would plug a large modem cartridge into their 2600 and could download a game and play it until they turned their 2600 off. This service was kill by the Video game crash of '83. Next they developed proprietary modems for the C64 and the Apple II and started a service called MasterLine. Same thing, you could download and try software before buying it. This is when I started with CVC (about the end of 1983 I think) MasterLine lasted 3 months. Next they acquired the software from a small on-line service called Playnet and in 6 months launched QuantumLink (Q-Link for short). At some point in here they also changed their name to Quantum Computer Services. Q-Link was a C64 only service. About 1987 they started AppleLink: Personal Edition (not to be confused with Apple's tech support service AppleLink) for Apple II, and IIgs. And about the same time they also started PCLink running under Tandy's DeskMate GUI. This is also the point where I left the company and moved to California. In California I ported Q-Link's Rabbit Jack's Casino Games to run on AppleLink but other than that I lost track of the company. I believe they changed their name and the service's name to America On Line in 1989. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 19:46:05 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: old AOL disks Message-ID: <199807030046.RAA18148@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > Once upon a time in the early 80's a man named >Bill von Meister started a company called Control >Video Corporation. (Bill von Meister had been one >of the founders of The Source which was bought by >Readers Digest) What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? > CVC started a service for Atari >2600 users called GameLine. Users would plug a >large modem cartridge into their 2600 and could >download a game and play it until they turned >their 2600 off. This service was kill by the Video >game crash of '83. Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jul 2 20:09:09 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980703005545.AAA22920@emusp6> Hi Doug, why that? It is at least a nice X-terminal .... cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DECStation 3100 available > Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:25 PM > > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. > > If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 > (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up > from Santa Clara, Ca. > > -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 2 20:04:16 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <199807030104.AA25978@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: [free DS3100] > why that? It is at least a nice X-terminal .... I don't have the monitor or keyboard for it, it fails a diagnostic test (which might be related to the lack of keyboard/monitor), and it's too big for my collecting tastes (i.e., bigger than a breadbox). Besides, I have lots of machines that make fine X-terminals, but I still prefer a simple shell most of the time. But it's a fine example of an early MIPS box, and the case construction and power supply are nice and DECish. -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Jul 2 20:47:58 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 3, 98 00:49:59 am Message-ID: <199807030147.SAA08336@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1036 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/8b452066/attachment.ksh From billm at teleport.com Thu Jul 2 23:56:16 1998 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" Disks For Sale NEW! Message-ID: <199807030456.VAA17652@user1.teleport.com> > Subject: NEW 8" Disks Available for sale > To: classicmp@u.washington.edu > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:49:02 -0700 (PDT) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Greetings, I have been watching the traffic about 8" disks while recovering > from an ugly bit of doctoring, (2 months plus under care..sigh) and being > without insurance, I feel its time to sell some stuff... > > I have NEW 8" disks still in the original Boxes Both Single and Double > sided. > Either Memorex for the Single or Intel Brand (at least its their Label) for > the Double sided. I was going to put them on the Auction net but wanted to > give the list a shot first. > > Figure $5 a box and we will negotiate on the shipping. > Its the original Hard Cardbox for the disks so there is a little weight > there. > > I have also 3 different of DYSAN alignment disks, but let me get to the > storage unit to be precise on the descriptions. > > Like I say at the swap meets, the more you buy the cheaper they get. and if > you do not like my prices tell me I will change them. > > I got a LOT of Disks,,gotta pay for the storage unit and I been off work for > 2 months... > Let me know.. > > thanks > > Bill > shipping from Portland, or > > --VAA20658.899441345/smtp2.teleport.com-- > From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 3 00:44:28 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? In-Reply-To: <199807021909.PAA16111@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 2, 98 03:09:26 pm Message-ID: <199807030544.BAA23657@user2.infinet.com> Yo, Mere hours after posting about searching for computer scrounging locales in L.A., I went to "Joe Factor Sales" (corner of Burbank and Hollywood Way), nominally a fastener house. Amongst the rows of military screws and wall of heavy duty hoses, my companion pointed out a lone computer board. When he pointed it out, I initially thought it was an Elf-II; it's the same size, has LEDs and a keypad, but it was something else entirely... The previous owner had glued a speaker to the upper left corner, obscuring the legend. After the proprietor had separated a fool from his money^H^H^H^H^H sold me the board, I pried the speaker off. Underneath was... Z80 Starter Kit SDS SD Systems (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two (unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". With all that, I still have questions: o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf of the day, but with a Z-80. o What ROMs might it program? 1702? (unlikely because of a lack of odd power supply voltages) 2708? There is a pad at one edge of the board that snakes over to the PGM/READ button, marked +25V. I simply do not know which particular 1978 ROMs used that particular programming voltage. o Why might I have heard of "Z-BUG"? Was it a famous monitor program for the Z-80 boards of the late 70's? o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it on E-overpay. Thanks for any hints. I'd love to learn more about the history of this thing. I just got it because it was a) affordable, b) a 1970's SBC, and c) it has a place to add cards and my own circuits, should I decide that's worth the effort. I could always wire on a 6164 RAM and a SCSI chip, but then what would I do? -ethan From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 3 00:54:50 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Any good search spots in L.A.? Message-ID: <199807030554.WAA01118@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hello, At 03:09 PM 7/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Howdy, all, > >I'm in sunny Glendale for the weekend, staying with a friend, and would love >to take the opportunity to scour the area for goodies. Any suggestions? I'd >rather take a planned approach than wander around the valley, looking for >Goodwills. I realize that the Bay Areais better pickings than Los Angeles, >but here is where I am. > There is C and H on Cororado Blvd. in Pasadena, but don't know if they have anything. There is also ECSC in Gardena, if you want to go that far. Their web site is www.eio.com The best bets seem to be the Ham radio swap meets, (not the commercial computer shows). The only one I know of on July 4 is in Santee, near San Diego. I enjoy the TRW meet the last Saturday of every month. I don't know if there are any gemeral or antique swap meets this weekend. Once per month there is one in the Rose Bowl. Wish I knew other places. I plan to visit the San Jose area in a few weeks, are there any suggestions for looking there? I know of Haltek in Mountain View and Halted + Weird Stuff in Santa Clara. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 3 01:48:03 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? Message-ID: <199807030648.XAA06896@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Ethan and all, At 01:44 AM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Yo, > > Z80 Starter Kit > SDS SD Systems > (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS > >It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), >a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two >(unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's >jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass >dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle >switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". > >With all that, I still have questions: > > o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf > of the day, but with a Z-80. > > o What ROMs might it program? 1702? (unlikely because of a lack of > odd power supply voltages) 2708? There is a pad at one edge of > the board that snakes over to the PGM/READ button, marked +25V. > I simply do not know which particular 1978 ROMs used that particular > programming voltage. > > o Why might I have heard of "Z-BUG"? Was it a famous monitor program > for the Z-80 boards of the late 70's? > > o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me > an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it > on E-overpay. > >Thanks for any hints. I'd love to learn more about the history of this >thing. I just got it because it was a) affordable, b) a 1970's SBC, and >c) it has a place to add cards and my own circuits, should I decide that's >worth the effort. I could always wire on a 6164 RAM and a SCSI chip, but >then what would I do? > >-ethan > If you don't find a use for it, I'd be interested. I remember some ads from SD Sales in old issues of BYTES's, but the single board Z-80 computer didn't have any S-100 connectors, etc, IIRC. I enjoy and would like to a) figure out the monitor code b) find out what EPROM it would program. If the circuit is simple, it probably is for a 2716. What size EPROM is the "Z-BUG" in? c) Find out if it can use or test various S-100 boards, depending on what signals are provided. Would be an upgrade for my simple S-100 tester. Thanks, -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 02:44:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? In-Reply-To: <199807030544.BAA23657@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Z80 Starter Kit > SDS SD Systems > (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS > > It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), > a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two > (unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's > jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass > dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle > switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". > > With all that, I still have questions: > > o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf > of the day, but with a Z-80. I have one of these with the manual. I don't know if I can find it in my mess but if you'd like I can give it a try and maybe send you a couple paragraphs from it. > > o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me > an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it > on E-overpay. Its a relatively obscure board. I know of two others who have one, maybe a third. And now, of course, you. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From kevan at heydon.org Fri Jul 3 04:18:14 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > No. I've never sold a computer at a profit. Sometimes I've had to buy more > than one of a machine to get one at all (i.e. the seller has a pile he > wants to get rid of), but then I either keep them as spares or pass them > on to other UK collectors _for the price I payed_. I am with Tony on this one. I only ever pass things on to other collectors for the same price that I payed for them. I fact last year I saved some DEC Bridges from a skip and after deciding that I wouldn't have a use for them I passed them onto Tony as I knew they would be going to a good home. Saying this my collection could start making a profit soon because I have one of my old machines out on loan to a company that is paying me. I didn't ask for the money, they offered. Basically in March I had am email asking about the condition of my Sage IV computer. It transpired that the company in question uses one to control a key machine tool and their Sage had failed, and production had stopped! They were very keen to borrow my unit to get production going again and to port the software to a PC. This process is taking longer than expected and they now feel that they should be paying me for the loan of the machine. It is very difficult for me to refuse as it will provide much needed cash for buying other computers. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 3 07:13:19 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <199807031000.MAA20871@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. >> It should be only a minor correction - just adding a 2^1 bit to >> get Win97, but due a litte mathematical problem they realy inverted >> the lower nibble before inverting the 2^1 .... :) > Am I missing something? Ya > 95 = 1011111 > 98 = 1100010 95 = 00111001 00110101 (ASCII) or 10010101 (BCD) 98 = 00111001 00111000 (ASCII)or 10011000 (BCD) Or do you realy belive they have changed any code beside this byte ? >> The rest is history:) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From CharlesII at nwonline.net Fri Jul 3 06:35:50 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: c64 information Message-ID: Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching yourself how to program the c64? From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:07:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick Message-ID: I went back to the Salvation Army store where I picked up the Wang PC last week, and was shocked to find that ALL of the computer junk had been replaced by shelves full of lamp shades! I am NOT joking, they actually had shelves full of lamp shades where only one week earlier they had too much cool old electronic junk for me to carry, or even to look at properly. I was really happy a couple of months ago when the place 'reawakened' and started filling up with interesting stuff again. But now I know that the SOURCE of the computer stuff has probably always been there, it's just that the Salvation Army store has been keeping it from me! I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. :( I was assured that it was already gone, not just sitting in a dumpster outside. I now feel really badly that I didn't go back on Friday morning to rescue that IBM-PC that was full of cards, that Tandy 1000TX, those magnetic strip card readers, the VIC 1541, and that cool-looking grey and rounded Olivetti screen. In my defense all I can say is that I assumed I'd have another chance at them this week, and that I expected the biggest threat to be someone else buying them before I got back. But my competition is my friend, not my enemy. Unfortunately, my competition seems only to be interested in the VIC-20s, Commodore 64s, Atari 800s, and Apple //s, which all tended to disappear from the shelves fairly quickly. Now I'm hoping someone else DID pick up some of that stuff before it was thrown in the dumpster. I guess that Wang came to within two days of the end of its electronic life, and I am grateful that at least I was able to rescue it. But I would have liked to have had a good look at all of the monitors and terminals before they were turfed, because the one that was used with the Wang may have been among them. I'm feeling really depressed about this. And one thing that pisses me off is that they've still got a large shelf full of speakers, turntables, 8-track decks, old stereos etc. Why the hell would they keep that stuff, but toss the computers? There's a funky-looking 8-track + stereo receiver thing that has been in the store for YEARS, yet they won't hold onto old computers for more than a couple of months before the whole lot gets tossed into the trash? Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. I went back for the PC yesterday, despite the fact that I hadn't had ANY sleep the night before, and the fact that I'd have to carry it with me to work and then to class afterward. I thought I was going a little crazy for even considering it (I'm built like Stick Man), but now I wish I had attempted to rescue MORE stuff last week. Dammit, I wish I had dragged ALL the stuff I wanted to the desk and paid for it, and had them sit it in a back room until I could come back for it. Dammit, I wish there had been some sort of warning. Anyway, the total lack of anything interesting on the junk shelves did get me to look through the books. And I did find a few interesting things there (but nothing that'll make me any happier about those trashed computers). I guess I'm going to have to find out where those trashed computers GO. Anyway, the books I picked up were: Programmer's Guide to GEM (Balma & Filter, SYBEX 1986) Programming in Assembly Language: MACRO-11 (Edward F. Sowell, Addison-Wesley 1984) PC to VAX: A Communications Guide (Sandler & Badgett, Scott, Foresman and Company, 1990) Getting Started With Color BASIC (1981 Tandy Corporation) I think I may have to have a garage sale to sell some of the non-computer books I have, so that I can do something better with the computer books I keep buying than stacking them on the floor. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:37:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Odyssey 1 In-Reply-To: <199806261502.LAA18412@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Wow! Nice (simple) Odyssey page. Thanks. I prefer simple pages myself, even though I now work for a company that provides not-so-simple ones. (Once I'm settled in and am on a solid footing, I'll try to convince them to make their sites accessible via Lynx. :) ) > I, too, have one. It's not the original one my family had in 197x; that > one got cannibalized when I was a teenager for the parts. One of the > program cards got chopped and soldered to the connector for a 44-pin VIC-20 > bus extender (yes, the cards are the same pin cound and spacing). A > controller cable got a new lease on life as a C-64 printer cable (user-port > to centronics connector). I understand that these things happen, and at least you used it for something useful instead of just tossing it into the dumpster like certain other people would (I'm pissed off at what I found at the Salvation Army yesterday). When something is merely 'old' it's easy to cannibalize it. I was considering using the dozens of TI-99/4As that were sitting around at the SA for spare parts for electronics projects, but I knew nothing about electronics and the machines disappeared without a trace before I started shoveling them up. Actually, the first "collectors" machine I bought (i.e. the first machine I bought that wasn't to be used as my primary computer) was a broken-up old VIC-20. My actual intention was to teach myself something about electronics, using the VIC. A friend of mine had done all kinds of wonderful things with his VIC-20, he had even plugged a UART into it so that he could use it with his 9600bps modem. He had actually been working on interfacing a CGA card to the VIC at one point, but he never got it working. Anyway, the case of the VIC that I bought was cracked and the cartridge connector damaged, but otherwise it turned out to be functional, and it didn't take long before I fell in love with the thing. I never did get around to hacking it up. Or learning anything about electronics, unfortunately. > We used to play that thing for hours and hours. My biggest complaint was > that the overlays came in small and large, but we had a "medium" TV. My > favorite was the sub hunt, followed by the haunted house. I thought all of the overlays were fairly large. But I guess the folks who could afford an Odyssey could afford a large set. :) The TV set we had when I was a kid was the right size, but I don't think it would have worked very well. The surface of the CRT was curved quite a bit, but it had a flat plate of glass in front of it. It was an old wooden TV set with turntable and radio that my parents had purchased sometime in the 1950s. We didn't replace it (with a COLOUR set!) until 1979. Which, I think, is the same year my brother brought home his first computer. :) I never had a video game system until I picked up an Atari 2600 a while back at the same SA store that just junked all that computer stuff. As I think I mentioned, I've never powered up my Odyssey. I guess I should, though, just to make sure it works. The battery compartment doesn't look like it's ever had any batteries in it, though. The machine seems like it's hardly been used. > -ethan Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:41:19 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Way to identify original IBM-PC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > This is not sure-fire, but I've found that if the big label on the back does > NOT have the notice "contains copyrighted code..." that it's most likely an > original version. I wish I could go back and check. > Kai Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:11:41 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information References: Message-ID: <359CD88D.61379CC3@bibtel.com> CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: > Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching > yourself how to program the c64? Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many C64/128 links there. I have a C64 BASIC 2 programming manual I never use that I might sell. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:21:46 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) References: Message-ID: <359CDAEA.EB9ADAC5@bibtel.com> Kevan Heydon wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > No. I've never sold a computer at a profit. Sometimes I've had to buy more > > than one of a machine to get one at all (i.e. the seller has a pile he > > wants to get rid of), but then I either keep them as spares or pass them > > on to other UK collectors _for the price I payed_. > > I am with Tony on this one. I only ever pass things on to other > collectors for the same price that I payed for them. I fact last year I > saved some DEC Bridges from a skip and after deciding that I wouldn't have > a use for them I passed them onto Tony as I knew they would be going to a > good home. Most of the time I onl get shipping for the oldies but on occasion I'll ask for a few bucks to cover the time involved in getting it packed and down to the post office as well. On other occasions I maight make 5 bucks over but it's rare on the oldies that you can make a profit anyway. The 386SX and up I can turn a few dollars since they're still in the realm of everyday use. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:24:14 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp References: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <359CDB7D.9B9C01F@bibtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp > here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. It was some guy named carp that someone else cross posted from a newsgroup. He wanted a lot just to pack it besides the $20 for the OS/2 and the shipping though. I believe he quoted me $32 for each copy ($20 + 12 a little high) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:25:51 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... References: Message-ID: <359CDBDF.95939CAA@bibtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? > > Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. the DIN connector on the back of the machine? Exactly for that. Is max looking for a 12v mono amber monitor for one? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:36:14 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here Message-ID: <359CDE4E.EAFE2436@bibtel.com> Well I had been holding some older terminals for a guy that I'd already shipped some things to in the past to find that he's going to have to move and the items I had on hold won't be going to him after all. They all work and look good and they're going for FREE but you get to pay shipping, advance. I have the following (again) Visual 102 with keyboard DEC VT 220, no keyboard DEC VT 1xx (I have to check to see if it's a 100 or 131), no keyboard I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. I also have one last HP 700/44 terminal with keyboard/cable like new and very functional, amber screen, current loop and serial connections, emaulates a few terminal types that I would like $15 plus shipping for. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 3 08:52:10 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Old Radio Shack computers -FREE Message-ID: <001c01bda689$d7bf22c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 09:18:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. Doug, do you realize that you've just ironically damned the Salvation Army to hell? :) Well, I'm with you. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 09:28:32 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > The 8-pin DIN plug has a little symbol next to it which might represent a > > CRT. (It looks kind of like a pie slice.) > > Sorry, it has been over ten years since I last saw one of those critters > and my recall on that kind of detail is fuzzy. With the case off, the > content of the cards may well give you a clue, though. I don't have any kind of parts catalogue, but someone here might. Some parts are really obvious, but I'll list 'em anyway. On the motherboard: NEC D765AC (40-pin); eighteen times HM4864P-3 (so I guess Wang used parity); Intel D8086-2; AM9517/A-4PC (40-pin); Intel P8253-5 (24-pin); Intel P8259A (28-pin); Intel D8288 (20-pin); two times HN482732AG-30 (EPROM, 24-pin, in 28-pin socket); D3-6402-9 (40-pin); AM8255APC/P8255A (40-pin); SCN2661C/C1N28E/CP28028 (28-pin). The rest is TTL. The memory board only has RAM chips and TTL. The board with the funny cable connectors is labeled "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD" and "9245 - R0M0". The only interesting IC is a 40-pin chip labeled "WANG 2001/377-0508/IMP 03 8402BCA". The rest is TTL. The "mystery board" which is attached to the above board via ribbon cable has a Zilog Z80A CPU, and another chip from MOSTEK labeled "MK3882N-4/Z80-CTC". The rest is TTL. The board itself carries the label "WANG 9246 A R0M1". The IBM Mono Emulator board is labeled "P C Emulator" and "WANG 9443-R2-M2" and has two 28-pin EPROMs on it labeled "HN482764G-2". There are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. And BTW, the date codes on the parts suggest the following manufacturing dates: Motherboard: 1983 Memory board: 1986 "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD": 1984 Mystery Board: 1984 IBM Mono Emulator: 1985 Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 10:01:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199806280946.FAA31937@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > I used to have an old wang whith a 8086 cpu in it, it had a monotor whith > two cords coming out of it. > one was power and the other one was for the data, they both pluged into > the card whith two plugs on it. > the one I had used the round ps2 stile plug maybe a little bigger, like a > keyboard plug. Humm, sounds like the monitor plugs into the IBM Mono Emulator card, then. It has a 5-pin DIN connector and an 8-pin DIN connector. I would suspect that the one labeled with the (+) might be the power, and the one labeled with the pie slice might be the video connector. The IBM Mono Emulator card din't look like it had parts on it that could handle supplying power to a monitor, though. I hope the Wang monitor isn't too specialized, else I'll NEVER get to see this thing work! I think I'll plug another machine into it today, using a null modem, to see if the Wang expects a terminal hanging off its serial port. Pray that nothing blows up. > Pete Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jul 3 10:24:58 1998 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Apple //gs composite video prob Message-ID: <2F1488C0300@orchid.le.ac.uk> On 2 Jul 98 at 17:43, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I just picked up a ROM v01 //gs at a thrift shop. > > The colour composite video it generates is very badly artifacted. On my > ][plus, there is a 'colour trim' adjustment which I would expect to > correct this on the mainboard, but I didn't see anything like this on the > //gs. Sorry, I can't help with this bit. > Also, the colours are pale and incorrect when I use my Apple // RGB > monitor (the one with the electric tilt) on the RGB port. This monitor > doesn't work on the RGB port of my //c at all, so I'm wondering if it's > just a matter of not being quite the right monitor for the //gs (which > has, if I recall, a monitor more closely styled along Mac lines). Apple IIGS RGB port = analogue signal at NTSC frequency. This port requires the specific RGB display for the IIGS, early multi sync displays from Sony and NEC, many Amiga and Atari displays etc but NOT VGA. Apple // RGB tilt monitor = digital display, surely. You'll get some display from the IIGS on it but as you say the colours are wrong. Apple //c RGB port = raw RGB signal. It requires an adapter to convert it to something a monitor will understand. Alltech Electronics sell adapters for analogue and digital displays, I understand. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 10:27:28 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199806281607.JAA19558@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > The m I think if I remember it rite takes the user in to wang's ver of > msdos, The way to get back in, hmm might have been EXIT. Well, right now everything just seems to BEEP at me after I hit 'm'. But I don't have any kind of DOS for the Wang yet. > It does slide out of the sleeve quite nicely, the two cards that are > conected togather are lan and mem ory combination, I think, when I removed > them I had less memory. Yeah, it does open up quite easily. In fact, everything slides out nicely, even the motherboard. The motherboard is just screwed in with one screw, and it slides out. It's connected to the bus board with a different connector, but otherwise it's just like a (much) bigger card. The power supply connects to the bus board, too, and not to the motherboard. And the machine is full of TTL, with only a few big chips, so it looks like it was MADE to be serviced. I just hope I don't have to. :) As for the LAN and memory... I didn't spot any RAM chips on that second card, only TTL and a Z80 and Z80-CTC. I might have missed the RAM in the seas of TTL, though. > I can't remember if it booted in a wordprosesser or a menu, I think it was > a word prosessor. Interesting. But your machine had a hard drive, was it just loading the word processor from the drive or was a simple WP stashed away in ROM? > I seem to remember some thing funy about the program was you couldn't quit > it , it would not let you I think it just rebooted, unless you had a flopy > in drive A:. > The not so funy thing about the monotor is the power and data cords > coming out of it both had the same plug on the end of them, and pluging the > data plug in to the power socket on the vidio card was a hasard. Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my theory about the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think might be for the video actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. > Since they wore bothe the same kind of plug I tied a twist tie around the > power plug just to let me know whitch was whitch, just incase I got the ich > to use the monoter when I was writting stuff in the word prosesser. Umm... how did you use the word processor without a monitor? Are we talking about the same beast here? Or is the 'blind' part of your e-mail address reflect your reality? The Wang keyboard does have bumps on the 'F', 'J', and '5' keys. > Oh well, It was still is a great machine albeit huge! > > Pete Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mallison at konnections.com Fri Jul 3 11:00:14 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Pamela Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <01BDA669.60E15940@ip185-173.konnections.com> Max: I saw a copy at Bookman's on INA in Tucson AZ for 10.00 yesterday. Maybe someone could get you a phone number, I know they'd ship it. I'm back home now, or I'd pick it up for you.... Mike ---------- From: Max Eskin Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 12:23 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: OS/2 Warp I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 11:33:20 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980703163320.4099.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm looking for a reason why they went to the trouble of making it. What are the voltages on it? I don't actually have any of the hardware, just wondering. >the DIN connector on the back of the machine? Exactly for that. Is max >looking for a 12v mono amber monitor for one? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 3 11:51:19 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: References: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980703095119.00997d90@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:32 PM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >Wern't the original Altair 8 inch drives hard sectored? Yes... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From g at kurico.com Fri Jul 3 11:44:48 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E966@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: George Currie [mailto:g@kurico.com] > > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item > that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? > Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that > the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even > if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > > > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If > I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write > programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. No, no, no. I think many people missed my point. I am not "in it for the money" either. For one, you can't really make enough to make it worth the time required. Secondly, I started collecting for the same reason that many/most of you did, for the love of tinkering and the machinery. My point was that given an opportunity to significantly enhance my income (in a legal and ethical manner), I would do so. And yes, to me a $20000 is a _significant_ sum of money. Unfortunately, I'm not rich. I have financial responsibilities and others who depend on me. I am not so puritan in my hobby, that I would pass up enough of a profit to actually send my kid to school for a year (or semester depending on the school). Hell, I'd just as soon give the money to my parents to help them (IRS problems), or to a close friend of mine (health problems), than just pass it up. For me, that's what it boils down to, there are certain things that _no_ computer can come close to in regards to importance. Money isn't a number in your bank account, good things can be achieved with it. And if you have no one or cause close to you that could really use some extra money, then you are a lucky person. Anyway, I just didn't want to leave people with the impression that I'm just acquiring stuff for eventual profit (heck I have about 75 classic Macs sitting in my garage that I'm about to donate/give away). Additionally, I don't know how the selling of a single high profit item suddenly turns one into a "dealer" or "broker". I assume that if anyone on this list were suddenly in dire financial straights, they'd still sell that IMSAI that they got for $50 four years ago for $50 now. So if anyone wants to sell me their Apple 1 at their cost, I'd be more than happy to oblige. George From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 3 11:58:46 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980703095846.008c4180@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:07 AM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I went back to the Salvation Army store where I picked up the Wang PC last >week, and was shocked to find that ALL of the computer junk had been >replaced by shelves full of lamp shades! > >I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', >and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. :( I was assured >that it was already gone, not just sitting in a dumpster outside. Sad, but be warned... If they are anything like the ones up here, while they will usually refuse to negociate even a little bit on a price, they also will not hesitate to call the police if they find someone 'dumpster diving', since they convieniently manage to rationalize it as 'theft'. (and no, it was not me in the dumpster...) An odd lot that... Even more annoying when I heard a story on the news yesterday that the 'Goodwill' stores are a $36 million per year business! When you consider that (nearly) all of the items they are selling are donated, one might think that they could afford to be a bit less militant. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 03:03:50 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807031806.LAA27505@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Hi Yes a reality, and a nic name I got from some friends. I don't remember the key stroke to open a new file or to save to disk, but it had some thing to do whith function key 3 or 4 I think remember it's been a while, after the function key a letter I am not sure whitch letter opened a new fiel whith a prompt for a file name: you typed in the file name pressed enter and you wore in the word prosessor, and could type what ever in. I used it mostly to write messages on from calls ect, I would leave it on all day, and get some help later on some one would read it back to me so I could braille it out. The drive was ten MB and had Wang dos on it and the word prosser was also on it. The monotor was a Wang monotor, I don't know if they are still available. This Wang I had was baught at a flee market, a fellow had 20 or 30 of them he was selling complete for $25 about ten years ago. A friend saw it and snagged one for me he knew I was interested in computers, and thought it would make a interesting birthday present for me. I sold it eventually because I couldn't het a sinthasiser that would work in the card slots, they worent ISA or any thing like that, not sure what they wore. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 3 17:05:03 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> Okay gang, here's the story: A week ago on Wednesday I literally stumbled across a Usenet advertisement listing a VAX 11/750, PDP's, etc available for sale. It was *nearby*! (Well, 50 miles is 'close' compared to any other DEC classics I've seen for sale.) And it was in what is generally considered an even more backwater area in north-western Pennsylvania! I therefore humbly apologize for the rant a couple of weeks ago stating that virtually nothing of interest to me is available around me. To make a short story long, I contacted him regarding buying any RT-11 documentation he may have plus I made an offer on the hardware listed. He replied saying my offer was acceptable (Great! :-)). Plus, he said he had more stuff available. We talked on the phone and he mentioned another system available. Yet other hardware was put into my pile. When I got there, and after he had a chance to go thru a storage room, more hardware! Well, yesterday (3 July) I took a rental truck with a 15' x 7.5' box and my uncle, who's in town for the holiday, to pickup the gear. Only truck available in the area amongst 8 rental truck shops. I thought it might be more than large enough. I came back home with that thing actually *stuffed* full, all for my original bid. NOW there probably is nothing of interest left around my area . We spent about 6.5 hours loading the stuff. Hauled down from second floor via elevator, through building and down a sidewalk to parking lot. Thank Heaven the truck had a hydraulic lift gate. Took 2.5 hours to offload into the garage. Now I have two problems: 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem #1) Why did I take such a large amount of equipment? The person selling had no other persons seriously interested. Somebody wanted the uVAX but never followed through to close a deal. Recall I said that this was a really backwater area. Nobody like us types in ClassicCmp around there for sure even though he advertised the DEC stuff in the area newspapers, as I understand him saying, in addition to at least several newsgroups (pgh.forsale is the one I stumbled onto while searching DejaNews for anything about RT-11). He had to close out his offices because he's located in California now. Obviously could not take the DEC stuff with him as you'll understand from the list below. He and his wife are going back home to California Monday or Tuesday. Therefore, the dumpster would be the final location of this equipment. So, this has turned into one of those Classic Computer Rescues to which some of the members of this list dedicate themselves. Problem number 3: I cannot keep everything (again, check the length and content of the list below and problem #1 above). This is where you folks can help! So, please contact me to come and get some of this equipment for yourselves or others. This is urgent as I need to clear out the garage again. We got done unloading just before dark last night. Today, I made just a quick list of major pieces to post. Had NO time yet to look at stuff further. Here's the list. See notes below list. 1. VAX 11/750-CA 2. TU80 and RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. 3. RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. 4. PDP-11/24 with two RL02s in short rack. 5. PDP-11/34A 6. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. 7. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. 8 VAX 11/730-CA. Covers off chassis, may not work. 9. PDP-11/34 in 6'rack w/TS03 and RL01-A. 10. RK07 in short rack. 11. RK07-PA rack (rack only) 12. RK07 not in rack. Said to possibly not work. 13. RA60-AA in short rack. 14. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. 15. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. 16. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside in a short rack. 17. 1-LP25 Band Printer 18. 3 units: Decwriter III (LA120? gotta check this) 19. 1-Decwriter II 20. 4 units: VT100 terminals 21. 1-VT220 terminal 23. 2-ADM 11 terminals 24. RL02, no rack. 25. RL02, no rack. 26. RL02, no rack. 27. RL02, no rack, marked "Bad?". 28. RL01-A, no rack. 29. RX02-BA, no rack. 30. RL02 in short rack w/some sort of Genigraphics chassis. 31. MicroPDP-11 32. MicroVAX II 33. Empty 6' rack from old -11/34, labeled Model H960-CF. 34. Empty 6' rack from something else, labeled Model SM-30LLA-LA. 35. Bunches of tapes for the various systems. I gotta sort through them first! 36. Bunches of RL01 and RL02 disc paks. Several RK07 paks. I gotta sort through them! 37. 7' tall tape storage rack. 38. About 10 to 15 shelf-feet of DEC documentation. 39. Bunch of spare Unibus and Q-bus boards. End. Notes: * I refer to 'short rack' or simply 'rack' as the one which is about 4' tall. Same styling as VAX cabinet, etc. as some of you already know. * The -11/34A, -11/24 and 750 booted okay the day before. * I'm still so tired. * Types of boards in BA-11's and assembled machines are not listed. Will do that when time available or opportunity offers a chance. * Same for the bunch of spare boards. Now before calling me, I must state the following for you to know up front: ** The uVAX and uPDP are staying here! Beverly thinks they are just fine (as in 'small' ). ** One OR two of the bigger systems I want to keep. Don't know which, but the 750, 11/24, 6-foot 11/34 and 11/34A are in the running for being my choice along with their appropriate peripherals. I'm asking for advice from the DEC gurus in the group on this by private email if you can. Don't clutter up the list with the advice unless you feel it is necessary to get opinions. **NO documentation will be let go unless it is redundant. That was the original reason for checking this sale out. I got the RT-11 docs I was hunting for anyway. ** I need to: first sort through the documentation; next organize the original systems and their spares; finally evaluate what I want to keep. There will be questions posted here as I've never owned DEC hardware up to now. I've just been aware of DEC for years and have listened to the many informative technical discussions here (but I never *retained* much of it in my mind since I never had any hardware/software to practice it on! Now there's suddenly a garage-full. Go figure!) Be aware that I'll need help and may unintentionally come across as a 'newbie', so be nice. I have to work quickly at resolving this but do not have very many DEC-related URLs or other reference sources lined up yet. (Send me yours!) ** Plan on taking the rest as soon as you can get one or more "Rescue Brigades" arranged. Just pitch-in a few bucks to help with part of my costs (only paid a little over 400 dollars for everything *including* truck rental and diesel fuel, ibuprofin, Coca Cola). Will consider horsetrading. ** _Please_ do not hesitate calling me at our home number below 09:00 to 21:30 this weekend. We have an answering machine if we are outside the house. We will not be traveling as we have relatives visiting. If you _really_ have to, you may call me at my office on workdays but I am often rather busy in other parts of the manufacturing areas. If you *really, really* have to call during the work day and need to talk to me, my wife works at the same company and can take the message. Ask for Beverly, phone 716.661.1843. But try to call the house and find me or leave message first. BTW: Don't let Bev tell you to come take _everything_ while I'm at work! Email is okay too, but I will not be able to read it until sometime Monday or Tuesday. It all has to be out of the garage as soon as possible. Bev is very understandably kinda pissed off. It's payback time for me. I am not too happy with the garage either but I could NOT bear to see this stuff dumpstered. As it was, I had to leave one LP26 Band Printer behind. There was only exactly one to three inches of space, depending upon which point you checked, left for the truck door to be pulled down. Truck was piled up to my height (6', 0"), and even higher in spots. Forgive my long message. I'm rather tired and a bit sore yet which causes me to not be concise or able to organize my thinking well. Thanks for helping me rescue DEC equipment. --Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian 31 Houston Avenue, WE Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home Jamestown, New York +716-661-1832 -Office 14701-2627 USA Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax email: cfandt@servtech.com Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 3 17:48:13 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here Message-ID: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 3 17:49:14 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? In-Reply-To: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 3, 98 06:05:03 pm Message-ID: <199807032249.PAA02361@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/d65142bf/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 3 17:51:07 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here In-Reply-To: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> from "Francois" at Jul 3, 98 05:48:13 pm Message-ID: <199807032251.PAA02376@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/36b4f0a0/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 18:19:04 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, George Currie wrote: > > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item > > that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? > > Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that > > the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even > > if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > > > > > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If > > I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write > > programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. > > No, no, no. I think many people missed my point. I am not "in it for the > money" either. For one, you can't really make enough to make it worth the > time required. Secondly, I started collecting for the same reason that > many/most of you did, for the love of tinkering and the machinery. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet chicks!! Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 18:26:19 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980703095846.008c4180@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, James Willing wrote: > An odd lot that... Even more annoying when I heard a story on the news > yesterday that the 'Goodwill' stores are a $36 million per year business! > When you consider that (nearly) all of the items they are selling are > donated, one might think that they could afford to be a bit less militant. Heck, haven't you guys heard about the big fraud charges being levied against (is it the Goodwill or Salvation Army?) in the San Jose chapter? Something like $5million turned up missing and nobody can explain what happened to it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 12:42:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807030104.AA25978@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 2, 98 09:04:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 977 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/ca985bfc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:35:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 10:28:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/0e70315e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:43:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 11:01:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/32010903/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:46:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 11:27:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/69c05b5e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:22:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Jul 3, 98 02:18:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/9e207f91/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:38:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here References: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <359D796B.EDBF6C55@bbtel.com> Francois wrote: > >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or > >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. > > Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the 10th. I thought *I* was picky. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:41:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) References: Message-ID: <359D7A2D.C2018701@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > chicks!! > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:44:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) References: Message-ID: <359D7B08.57B480D@bbtel.com> Tony Duell wrote: > I think a fairer comment in my case would be that I've never bought a > computer with the aim of selling it at a profit to other collectors. For > example : If a person can actually find a buyer that will pay Ebay type prices I think they should sell it for that, but I personally find it next to impossible to locate the type that would pay these prices, and besides a collection they have no real use in today's corporate business, as they are usually the ones that sold them at salvage/surplus. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 20:15:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <359D7B08.57B480D@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 3, 98 07:44:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/0133971f/attachment.ksh From CharlesII at nwonline.net Fri Jul 3 20:21:42 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information Message-ID: CL>CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: CL>> Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching CL>> yourself how to program the c64? CL> Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many CL>C64/128 links there. I have a C64 BASIC 2 programming manual I never use CL>that I might sell. CL> -------------------------------------------------------------------- CL> Russ Blakeman CL> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 CL> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 CL> Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com CL> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ CL> ICQ UIN #1714857 CL> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" CL> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* CL> -------------------------------------------------------------------- There dosen't seem to be any links at the web page mentioned. Are you shure that is the right address? From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 20:55:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information References: Message-ID: <359D8B7B.207BCEBB@bbtel.com> CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: CL> Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many > There dosen't seem to be any links at the web page mentioned. Are you > shure that is the right address? Try this, I haven't been on Jim's site in a while and he may have decided that there are enough links pages around: http://www.cucug.org/c64128.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Jul 3 21:06:54 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <19980703193515.05e8f011.in@mail.pressstart.com> Tom Owad said: >What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? I don't really know. >Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? I sure you can find a better explaination in any of a half dozen books that are out about the video game business but here is my condensed version for what it's worth: Prior to 1983 Atari was making ALOT OF MONEY selling 2600 units and cartridges (remember PAC-MAN fever). It was the Microsoft of the 70s and early 80s. Many other companies, not wanting to miss the boat, saw this happening and jumped in with their their own systems. Some of these companies were betting the farm on this craze. And it seem like everyone and their kid sister was coming out with cartridges for these systems. (At one point you could send in to the makers of Gravy Train (or was it Chuck Wagon) dog food to get a cartridge called "Chase the Chuck Wagon") I have heard that black market copies of the programming manual for the 2600 cost $10,000, which is a small price to pay if you could possibly make millions making and selling cartridges. Some programmers made 1 million dollar bonuses on a single game and that was back when one programmer by himself would write a game in 6 months. It was a time of madness. BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids were playing video games too much. The fad was over. Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. Some very large companies almost went lights out when the prices fell. Atari was split up into Atari Games(coin-op) and Atari Corp.(home computers) Other companies just faded away. Home video game systems did not come back into fashion until 1986 with Nintendo. For more details see http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/atari/Atari-Timeline.html ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Jul 3 21:19:42 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807040219.MAA14169@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:18 AM 03-07-98 -0700, Kevan Heydon wrote: >Saying this my collection could start making a profit soon because I have >one of my old machines out on loan to a company that is paying me. I >didn't ask for the money, they offered. I've loaned out bits of my PDP-8A via a friend to an organization that still uses them to drive some machinery (I've never asked, and no one has ever offered to tell me what they're used for - I just know that it's something in a government department. Perhaps it's being used for code breaking :-) I've never asked for money, but surprisingly, the bits always return in a box with a nice bottle (port or whisky). I feel happy to have helped and it's just a nice gesture to attach something on it's return. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 21:22:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq Message-ID: <359D91EE.E4BD0AEA@bbtel.com> Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on your Compaq machine should view: http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 3 21:43:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq (and others) Message-ID: <5b5fcab2.359d96d5@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-03 22:22:55 EDT, you write: << Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on your Compaq machine should view: http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. >> harrrumph, don't feel bad, it seems like almost 100% failure rate when end users are upgrading to windont98 on IBM aptiva models as well. seems to be that there's always something that is not working correctly. so much for backwards compatibility! most users dont also know about fat32. once you convert, you cant go back and you cannot do the best thing which is remove 98 altogether! david From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 21:56:41 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq (and others) References: <5b5fcab2.359d96d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <359D99E8.2AACB996@bbtel.com> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-03 22:22:55 EDT, you write: > > << Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on > your Compaq machine should view: > http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ > Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. > >> > > harrrumph, don't feel bad, it seems like almost 100% failure rate when end > users are upgrading to windont98 on IBM aptiva models as well. seems to be > that there's always something that is not working correctly. so much for > backwards compatibility! most users dont also know about fat32. once you > convert, you cant go back and you cannot do the best thing which is remove 98 > altogether! I found this after a customer had a problem "self installing" WinBlows98.....I did some research and found the site and thought maybe a few might want to see this before trashing everything they worked into the system so far, especially on gigantic drives that have had software installed for years now. Without even having to mention it, you know I had to reinstall Win95 and all of his software, start all over basically. I was going to do a minimal install of 95B and then add 98 over it and then reinstall the stuff on the drive, but he feels the urge now to take Mr. Gates up on his money back offer, permanently. Personally I'm staying with my 95 on the one machine, NT 4.0 on another, DOS 6.22 and Win 3.1 on another and DOS 6.22 with 4DOS added on yet the other two (8088 and 80286 w/640k). I'll probably try 98 after the little bugaboos are found and fixed, ie - on-the-market beta testing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:06:58 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer Message-ID: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> I recently acquired this S-100 computer. It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards and on a nameplate on the front of the floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. and the model is 800D-4E. Can anyone please tell me more about it? Here is a link to photos I have uploaded... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Computer.jpg Thanks, Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 22:13:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: <359D7A2D.C2018701@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > > chicks!! > > > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! > > Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the > hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? Heck no! What do you take me for, a nerd? I just say "Hey babe! Wanna see my IMSAI?" It works every time! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From billm at teleport.com Fri Jul 3 22:15:45 1998 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: 8" Disks Update Message-ID: <199807040315.UAA23967@user1.teleport.com> Greetings, I finally went to the Storage Unit and this is what I have. All DYSAN 8" Disks 3740/1 Single Density Unformatted 3740/1D Single sided double Density Formatted as 128 Bytes/ 26 sectors 101/1D single Sided Double Density 32 HARD Sectors 3740/2D Double Sided Double Density Formatted 1024 bytes/8 sectors Many Boxes of Each all in Original Shrink wrapped Boxes $5 a box and we will haggle on the delivery The more you buy the cheaper they get! Also several Versions of the Dysan Alignment disks.. Make Offer all brand new Bill Marx From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 22:26:55 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I recently acquired this S-100 computer. > It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards > and on a nameplate on the front of the > floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which > says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. > and the model is 800D-4E. > Can anyone please tell me more about it? > Here is a link to photos I have uploaded... > > http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Computer.jpg Bob, that is one sweet machine. The neatest thing about it for me is where it was made. Visalia is this middle of the nowhere town in central California. There is nothing out there except for cows and lettuce fields. And a state prison. So its surprising. Nice pictures but I can't really make anything out. Are all the cards branded Integrand or are there any Thinker Toys (Morrow) or Godbout cards inside? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 3 23:40:42 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here In-Reply-To: <359D796B.EDBF6C55@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or > > >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. > > > > Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? > > Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the > 10th. I thought *I* was picky. I'll refrain from making any comments about glasses. Oh, darn, there it is... - don From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 4 00:07:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I recently acquired this S-100 computer. > It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards > and on a nameplate on the front of the > floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which Micropolis is the name of the floppy drive and controller maker, one of the first 5.25" drives out, I think. I've got one from circa 1977 in one of the IMSAI's I dragged home today :-) > says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. > and the model is 800D-4E. If none of the cards or motherboard has this brand name on it, then chances are that Integrand just manufactured the chassis. I have a similar no-name S-100 box with a nice wood cabinet. BTW, the IMSAIs I nabbed today were the 2nd and 3rd of the three (!) this guy had for sale. Unfortunately, somebody from Texas swooped down and grabbed box 1 along wth *all* of the IMSAI docs and the CPU card from one of my boxes :-( But that just means I got a better deal, and makes my upcoming IMSAI projects that much more fun :-) So, who has some IMSAI docs they'd like to trade away? Who made CPU cards that have a plug for the front-panel header? And where can I get the plastic IMSAI toggle switches? (One of the IMSAIs is missing most of the switches). BTW, I also got a SBC as part of the deal (in addition to some other cool stuff). Anybody familar with the Advanced Digital Super Six? -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 00:20:31 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: IBM monochrome, was Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807040520.WAA23060@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi all, At 07:35 PM 7/3/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: ... >> The IBM Mono Emulator board is labeled "P C Emulator" and "WANG >> 9443-R2-M2" and has two 28-pin EPROMs on it labeled "HN482764G-2". There > >8K*8 EPROMS. >> are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a > >RAM, I think. Possibly video RAM. > >> 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. > >6845 CRT controller (basically the timing chain for the video section). > >Is there another 24 pin chip (EPROM or ROM) on this board as a character >generator? I would have expected one. Unless one of the 5565s is used for >that and loaded from disk or something. > Did the early IBM mono boards have a character generator, like in serial terminals? I thought I had one, but it is a clone, still with a 6845 and 64k dynamic ram, 8 ic's. There is a 6116 2k byte ram on it, in a socket, which I assume is loaded from the BIOS with the character data. See no ROM. Newer boards with (almost) a single ASIC chip, I have no idea what they do. -Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 00:51:46 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here References: Message-ID: <359DC2F1.CACA5F36@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the > > 10th. I thought *I* was picky. > > I'll refrain from making any comments about glasses. Oh, darn, there it > is... Cute Don. Besides the glasses are on order (grin). -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 07:00:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: IBM monochrome, was Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807040520.WAA23060@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 3, 98 10:20:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1311 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/78b8f082/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 4 03:26:45 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Back On Line Message-ID: <199807041228.IAA09271@smtp.interlog.com> Hi ,my server had me down since june27 and deleted all my msgs. Was I pissed-off !@$#@!@!$ I'm up and running again now. Could anyone who might have sent me any msgs. during that time please resend . Thank you. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 21:31:44 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <199807041234.FAA16283@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi Every One This sounds really great! I am blind and do have a love for machinery mechanical as well as eletrical, What I know about computers is self learned, I always wanted to aquire a main frame computer, so I could learn about it. I am building a small net work of my own, could I use a main frame as a hub, I know it might be a dumb question, but you don't know unless you ask, right? I ran across the garage full of computer equiptment and thought here is my chance. But, I don't know about the equiptment and am looking for imput. What do you think? Can we get me setup? I'll found a speech synthasiser screenreader for unix based systems, here again do to lack of familarity I don't know what OS these machines are using. Any impute or coments would be fine! Write to: blindpete@stratos.net or: blndpete@raex.com Again thanks! Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 4 08:06:27 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? References: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <359E28D3.F55851E4@idirect.com> >Christian Fandt wrote: > Now I have two problems: > > 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew > from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? > > 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house > on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem #1) Jerome Fine replies: Wow!!!!! What a haul. Like a kid in a candy store. I have the same set of problems as well. But congratulations on the find. I have been looking for other people who do RT-11? Is it a very small or large part of your hobby? I notice that you don't mention much about the PDP-11 software. Is there any RT-11 or is it all RSX and/or RSTS? I have been looking for up to date DOCS for a while and can't seem to find any that are recent (less than about 15 years old). I hope you found some. If there are any duplicates that no one else has asked for, please let me know. How far is Jamestown from Buffalo? I am in Toronto which is about 2 hours from Buffalo to start with. If you are active with RT-11, I would certainly like to keep in touch. My primary focus right now is helping some friends who need their systems fixed for Year 2000. After that is all done, I hope to help the RT-11 hobby users. If you wish to return you phone number, I will call on Sunday if that is OK by you. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict (416) 667-8233 From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 22:38:43 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807041341.GAA17809@mxu3.u.washington.edu> On 1998-07-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said: BP{> > The not so funy thing about the monotor is the power and BP{>data cords > coming out of it both had the same plug on the end BP{>of them, and pluging the > data plug in to the power socket on BP{the vidio card was a hasard. > BP{> Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my BP{>theory about the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think BP{>might be for the video actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. BP{A 5 pin DIN plug will mate with a 7 or 8 pin socket (!). Just what BP{you need to cause problems IMHO. BP{Which way round do you think the connectors are? BP{-tony Hi Tony Everyone I think the two cables coming from the monotor wore stuck togather like a two contuctor lamp cord would be stuck togather, you could separate the two cords by pulling apart. I think the power cable was the one on the left as you are looking at the monotor from the front, like you would to see what's on it. Sliding your hand along the under side fo the monotor from front to back you would find the cables entering the botom of the monotor case. Each cable had it's own round molded thingy whitch was fixec to the monotor case, so you could tel witch one was witch. I am not sure about the markings on the monotor case, it felt like smooth plastic to me around rhe place whrer the cables went into the monotor. The pie shaped symble stands for a cathode ray toob. The cable on the leftof the monotor looking from the front went into the whole on the left of the Wang computer looking at it also from the front. and the cable on the right went in to the whole on the right, I think that's the way it went togather. Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 10:23:25 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704152325.26758.qmail@hotmail.com> This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. Suggestions? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 10:44:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704152325.26758.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 08:23:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/f6958f30/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Sat Jul 4 13:03:33 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980704175006.AAA74@emusp6> Hi Doug, if still have the DS3100, i would take it ;-)) cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DECStation 3100 available > Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:25 PM > > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. > > If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 > (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up > from Santa Clara, Ca. > > -- Doug From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 12:57:01 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704175701.27261.qmail@hotmail.com> So how do I know which ones to replace? There are two fairly large cans, about a dozen smaller ones, and several mica caps. >First suggestion : Dried up capacitors. If you have an ESR meter (and I >don't either...) then test all the electrolytics in the unit. Replace any >that are defective. If you don't have an ESR meter, then you might try >replacing them anyway. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 13:19:32 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <199807041819.LAA25140@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 08:23 AM 7/4/98 PDT, you wrote: >This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a >Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged >into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the >motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I >plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 >HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. >Suggestions? > Is it a switching PSU? I would guess so. Many do not regulate well under no load, as there is a minimum current and switching on time required. It may be also that a main high-voltage filter capacitor is bad, feeding more raw AC into the switching stage. The 120Hz points to this. Under light loads, the output low voltage filter capacitors are enough. Under heavier loads, the line AC ripple is seen in the outputs which now cannot hold the voltages. Use caution on the high voltage side. -Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 4 13:33:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer Message-ID: <199807041833.AA12363@world.std.com> <> says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. <> and the model is 800D-4E. Intergrand made boxes only. They made some of the best s100 crate in the industry. Rugged, well cooled and well thought out. Allison From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Jul 4 09:51:26 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807041819.LAA25140@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199807041830.OAA09313@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: dave dameron > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > At 08:23 AM 7/4/98 PDT, you wrote: > >This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a > >Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged > >into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the > >motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I > >plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 > >HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. > >Suggestions? > > > Is it a switching PSU? I would guess so. Many do not regulate well under no > load, as there is a minimum current and switching on time required. > > It may be also that a main high-voltage filter capacitor is bad, feeding > more raw AC into the switching stage. The 120Hz points to this. Under light > loads, the output low voltage > filter capacitors are enough. Under heavier loads, the line AC ripple is seen > in the outputs which now cannot hold the voltages. > Use caution on the high voltage side. > -Dave Work on it without any power and close that PSU up before doing any testings under load. You need to remove that main transformer first so that will not confuse your meter readings on diodes and other components. The fluttering fan points to either decayed capacitors in primary side or dud diode in your secondary side. Use your meter in ohm in around 200K to 2000K mode on capacitors, as it charges up, you're reading a voltage drop until it stops charging up then you read no voltage. Longer on larger ones and fast on small ones. Judge these speed of charging up by other good capacitors. Do that on individually removed capacitors and put em back in right polarity!! For any secondary caps, you want hi frenquency at 105C rating but you can use normal grade at 105C on primary side because this is only function to filter the mains power. For Diodes, they're high speed recovery and at hi frequency types in large current ratings. Don't worry about the complex circuit with thround resistors and little capacitors, it's working becasuse of that fluttering fan and it did power up when you commanded it to turn on by the keyboard. Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 4 15:27:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: **** snip **** > BTW, I also got a SBC as part of the deal (in addition to some other cool > stuff). Anybody familar with the Advanced Digital Super Six? I can probably help you, Doug, as I have a couple of them floating around here. - don From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 4 12:14:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Im back Message-ID: <199807042115.RAA21686@smtp.interlog.com> Hi ,my server had me down since june27 and deleted all my msgs. Was I pissed-off !@$#@!@!$ I'm up and running again now. Could anyone please resend any msgs you might have sent me during that time. Thank you. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From mallison at konnections.com Sat Jul 4 16:40:44 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Pamela Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: The Beatles Message-ID: <01BDA762.1C1650A0@ip185-154.konnections.com> Packard Bell had a reputation for making computers with pulled and otherwise used parts. They had a seemingly high failure rate. However, recently NEC bought out Packard Bell and the quality and support improved drastically. I, who would never buy one, bought one for my wife's CAD business. That's what I'm using at the time. No Complaints... Mike ---------- From: Jeff Kaneko Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 8:50 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: The Beatles > > I just found a discarded Packard Bell 486 (I almost left it because the > > case looked like a 286's). I don't know why you all dislike those things > > so much, this case is very good. Anyway, when the machine boots, the ROM > > displays a "Packard Bell" graphic, complete with a 3-second fade-in (if > > only people paid so much attention to _useful_ stuff). Underneath, it > > displays, "America grew up listening to us. It still does." Now, this is > > my question. What does this mean? When was this company founded, and > > what was their original product? > > Packard-Bell, as you see it, is simply not the company it used to be. As > with so many American company names, someone bought the name. > I have no idea what happened to Packard-Bell. They may still be around, > doing defense work, or they may have been swallowed up. The Packard-Bells > at CompUSA, however, are simply not related. The way I seen it, P-B may have been a defence contractor during WWII and later, but their main claim to fame was that for decades, they were one of the biggest manufacturers of Broadcast radios, and Television Sets. I know for a fact they were making TV's (of the humongous console variety in vogue at the time) in the early 70's because I remember an inane TV commercial for it. In the 50's and 60's there were some other major players that manufactured TV's (they actually *made* the stuff): Admiral (my grandmother had one), Motorola, GE, RCA and Zenith. Others were: Pilot, Curtis-Mathes (still around, I think), Hofmann, Westinghouse and a whole bunch of other minor players. Then the Japanese arrived (en force) in the mid 70's, and the next thing we knew thousands of americans were out of work, and no Televisions (or Computer monitors, for that matter) were made domestically. Packard-Bell was one of these victims. I don't know who is behind the resurrection of the P-B brandname. I suspect they wanted to appeal to baby-boomers who fondly remember watching 'Hopalong', 'Cisco' or 'Bonanza' on their parents' Packard Bell console TV. Jeff > > By the way, Packard-Bell has nothing to do with HP. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 16:45:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: The Beatles References: <01BDA762.1C1650A0@ip185-154.konnections.com> Message-ID: <359EA292.6EFC81D3@bbtel.com> Pamela Allison wrote: > Packard Bell had a reputation for making computers with pulled and otherwise used parts. They had a seemingly high failure rate. > > However, recently NEC bought out Packard Bell and the quality and support improved drastically. I, who would never buy one, bought one for my wife's CAD business. That's what I'm using at the time. No Complaints... > I totally forgot about the buyout! That explians a lot of why PB's are more industry standard than they used to be. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 16:01:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807041830.OAA09313@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 4, 98 02:51:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3391 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/4ecf9a2b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 16:03:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704175701.27261.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 10:57:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 562 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/8cd13a63/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 17:22:15 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >I think we need to determine if it really is a 120Hz ripple, or something >near it. If it really is 2* mains frequency, then start looking around >the mains smoothing capacitors first. > It's a very simple PSU, there's a bunch of capacitors, a single small chip, and a couple of every other component and that's it. This does not have the power-on from the keyboard thing. It uses a regular button which cuts mains off from the rest of the PSU. Two questions: what is the definiton of a Switch Mode PSU, and what is a Crowbar? >> >> Don't worry about the complex circuit with thround resistors and >> little capacitors, it's working becasuse of that fluttering fan and >> it did power up when you commanded it to turn on by the keyboard. > >Agreed. This doesn't sound like a control circuit problem (although, >having seen some strange SMPSUs in my time I'd not bet my life on it!. A >few, a very few SMPSUs have a separate linear supply for the control >circuit that can inject mains frequency ripple). > > >> >> Jason D. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 4 18:08:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Intellec Series II Microcomputer Development System Message-ID: Well, I finally got to check out the Intel Development System (ISIS?) I got from Las Vegas. On first glance it looks like it had been exposed to the elements. All of the documentation was warped, had water stains, and most of the reference cards were stuck together. I was able to separate most of them without totally damaging the covers, so most of the information on them is still in tact, but some are just plum stuck. What was the method for separating water damaged pages again? Run it through a steamer at a certain humidity or something? Anyway, the main computer unit itself looks OK on the outside, but I couldn't pull any of the multi-bus cards out. They seemed extremely stuck. Its official model number is MDX 225A. The main unit incorporates the CRT, an 8-inch drive mouted vertically next to the CRT, and a 6-slot card cage mounted horizontally underneath the CRT. It has an external keyboard. I also got an MDX 761A1 hard drive sub-system which looks like it will need extensive restoration as it shows most evidence of exposure to moisture. I don't know if it will ever work again or if I'll ever get any data off the 8-inch hard drive but I'll eventually find out. Also included was a Universal Programmer (model IUP 201) with modules for just about every Intel microcontroller and EPROM and whatnot of the day. It was in fine shape. I also received a large grocery bag filled with 8-inch floppies with the system software circa 1981-82. Overall a nice system but it will require some moderate restoration. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 4 18:14:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: looking for HP-11C... Message-ID: <199807042314.AA21847@world.std.com> HI, I have a friend that is looking for an operational HP-11C, it must be the C (engineering model) model. Or if you know a suitable substuitute (must be RPN) please email me off list. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 19:07:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 03:22:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/cff0ce0a/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 23:13:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded Message-ID: <359EFD67.91D056F9@bbtel.com> this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person below: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Barr Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code form? (A long shot, I know). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 3 09:17:03 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 References: <199807030702.AAA03180@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359CE7DF.49654AE6@goldrush.com> > From: Tom Owad > Subject: Re: old AOL disks > > .... (Bill von Meister had been one > >of the founders of The Source which was bought by > >Readers Digest) > > What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? I think they were bought out by Compuserve (or possibly America On-Line). And they were shut down in favor of their new owner's already existing services. > > > Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home computers with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer wars. :) Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. I still miss the old Electronic Games Magazine that folded in around 1984 or so... One of the few magazines that did good reviews on the home and arcade game machines. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From red at bears.org Sun Jul 5 04:08:30 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 04:39:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 5, 98 05:08:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/a8d73aa6/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 08:26:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: Message-ID: <359F7F02.6FD37CED@bbtel.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > > > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even > > > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know > > > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. > > > > You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > > Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? > No way. Max needs to cut his coffee intake, huh? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 10:46:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry, 120 per minute. Sometimes I wonder if _I_ don't have dried-up capacitors :) >> >> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: >> >> > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even >> > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know >> > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >> >> You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > >Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? >No way. > >> >> ok >> r. >> >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Jul 5 12:48:39 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded In-Reply-To: <359EFD67.91D056F9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980705104839.00997770@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:13 PM 7/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person >below: >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > >Jeff Barr >Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 > > Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) > for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code > form? > > (A long shot, I know). Yes... any particular form you might want it in? (BTW: it was published in the original construction article) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 12:46:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <359FBBE5.19699061@bbtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > Sorry, 120 per minute. Sometimes I wonder if _I_ don't have dried-up > capacitors :) Hard to have kids that way Max (grin). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 12:50:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded References: <3.0.3.32.19980705104839.00997770@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <359FBD01.38A0BD66@bbtel.com> You need to contact the person in need of it directly, his email address is jeff@vertexdev.com I don't even know what a Cromenco is, but I know I've seen hints of it here and there on this list before. James Willing wrote: > At 11:13 PM 7/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person > >below: > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > >Jeff Barr > >Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 > > > > Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) > > for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code > > form? > > > > (A long shot, I know). > > Yes... any particular form you might want it in? > > (BTW: it was published in the original construction article) > > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 13:03:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: A funny-assed spam Message-ID: I got this spam and thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Please note that there is ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION to the Computer History Association of California (http://www.chac.ORG). This is just a funny coincidence that Kip Crosby warned about. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1998 22:41:23 +1000 From: "H. McDonald" To: Mark Robinson Subject: Re: your support You might like to support the hottest adult entertainment site on the net! You'll be glad you did! http://www.chac.com For the best in live phone sex, call these amature girls. These girls are all amature SanMarino residents, answering your calls many are young students working partime give them a call! From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 13:12:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: CSIRAC page for you Aussie's Message-ID: Here's a web page for the first computer built in Australia: http://www.ug.cs.su.oz.au/~csir1 I also got this e-mail message from John Geremin of the Australian Computer Museum Society that might be of interest to you: Update ! We have been offered a machine from a Power Station that was in operation for 33 years ! (Slow depreciation !!) It was designed by 'BAILEY Controls' around 1960 - uses germanium transistors (maybe they ran out of spares!) and does NOT use CORE. It weighs about 10 tonne and I am currently trying to organise shipping it from Adelaide to Sydney (about 1000 miles). Regards, John G. (aka 'megaJOHN') .. v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v- John Geremin, PDP-11 Support Consultant, MEGATRONICS, 018-406 365. John Geremin, Treasurer, Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc. ( ACMS web page at http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/ ) IN%"geremin@decus.org.au" or fax: 61-2- 9764 4679 (24 hours) -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ --- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From rax at warbaby.com Sun Jul 5 15:02:18 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 5.25 Disk Sleeves Message-ID: Y'all probably know about this site, but if you don't it's worth a visit. It's a humongous collection of 5.25 floppy sleeves: http://www.cyberden.com/sleeves/ R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:14:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <19980705211419.7398.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, today I got around to testing MS-DOS disk images from the PDP-8 archive on the DECMAte III. It read the disk, said "Starting MS-DOS...", but then said, "XPU Board Error". It then entered a configuration menu for the DECMate (cursor, baud, etc.). What is an XPU board? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Sun Jul 5 16:21:58 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19980705145052.0f31aac1.in@mail.pressstart.com> >> * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: >> 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. >Those are soft sectored. How are the holes in the jacket positioned? If >they're symmetrical about a centre line, then it's a flippy disk. If >they're both on the same side of the centre line, then it's a double >sided disk that can also be used in single-sided drives - rare, and they >confuse some DS drives. > Well to be more exact, looking at the disk (label side up) with the disk access window at 6 0'clock, one index hole would be at 12:15 and the other would be at 1:00. They are to one side of center and very close together. So I guess these are not flippy disks. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 16:23:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 08:46:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/ecdd4544/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 17:15:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980705145052.0f31aac1.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Jul 5, 98 02:21:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/32ba5ca2/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 17:54:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: (Xpost) Computers to new home Message-ID: <35A00422.406ACFD3@bbtel.com> Someone in the UK, Germany, France or any other close place may want to take advantage of this. Contact the person "Trig" at his/her address at demon.co.uk, not me..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trig Salisbury, Wilts U.K. - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 17:15:08 I have a small collection of 10 - 15yr old apricots, xen, xi and various other related bits. Can anyone help me find a home for these cute computers? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 18:09:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it unfortunately. The UK guys will be able to clue me in right away I'm sure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:09:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705230914.16427.qmail@hotmail.com> Does that make the solution more complicated? There are about 20 little capacitors, packed like mushrooms. Are you sure it can't be anything else? BTW, if I later unplug it, the fan spins back up again. Maybe I could just disable whatever shuts the thing down? (I'm somewhat squeamish about spending two hours checking each and every capacitor with a hot soldering iron - that'll _really_ dry out my capacitors :) >Aha... 2Hz.... > >Forget all we've said about mains filtering... > >Sounds like the PSU is starting up, detecting a problem, shutting down, etc. >Start by testing/replacing all the output-side electrolytics. They'll be >1000uF-4700uF (I guess), connected (electrically) close to the output >connections, and have voltage ratings <25V. > >On the grounds it works OK off-load, it's unlikely to be any of the other >capacitors in the unit... > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 18:27:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Help figuring out these boards Message-ID: I brought home some keen boards the other day. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out what I've got. Firstly, a 4K HP memory board. Part number 02640-60065(?) Date codes are 76-77. Its a long card about 12", and has the edge connector in the center of the board. Looks like it goes into a 98xx series machine? NeXT, I got this NeXT prototyping board. It has the NeXT logo, about 40,000 holes for putting components into, an edge connector with all the pins labelled (presumably goes into the NeXT bus?) and it looks like someone was trying to build something on this. It has a bunch of logic and resistors and some dip switches and 8 LEDs. Looks like a bus monitor or data monitor of some sorts. Too lazy to type up any of the 74xx numbers so never mind. I'll figure this out eventually. And now, the MAI Basic/Four board set. I found these in the same place I found the two items above. This guy was selling a whole set of random boards. So anyway, here's what I found (the number in parenthesis is the Board Detail number): High Speed DMA (904193) Adapter Bus (902211) [connected to the High Speed DMA with a ribbon cable] Terminal Controller x2 (901420) Formatter Bus (901920) Unidentified board (has a bunch of logic...looks like a disk or tape controller) Jumper Board - Carthridge Tape Controller (904049) [basically an 8.5"x11" PCB with nothing but three traces cross-connecting edge connector pins!] 19-slot backplane No CPU board, so I don't have a complete system. It'd be cool to find the rest of this someday. Piece by piece I suppose I will, as today I picked up a Basic/Four keyboard that apparently went with a Basic/Four terminal for free. The guy I got it from said he'd ask the guy he got it from if he has the rest of it or anything else Basic/Four. I've asked about this before I think, but what is the Basic/Four? Isn't it some early 80s mini? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:23:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705230914.16427.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:09:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/88c97c4f/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 5 18:35:16 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <35A00DB4.17C4@geocities.com> this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! -Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:34:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 5, 98 04:09:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2483 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/51f0be14/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Jul 5 18:41:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980705194121.006ba2f0@netpath.net> Works fine. You can even run a mono/herc card in the same machine with a color display adapter (CGA/EGA/VGA). Just use the mode command to switch between them in DOS, forget what to use in Linux. Type "mode mono" display switches to the mono monitor Type "mode co80" and the display switches to 80x25 color mode on the VGA. At 06:35 PM 7/5/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga >etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish >system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux >term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like >that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! > >-Eric > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:37:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? In-Reply-To: <35A00DB4.17C4@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 5, 98 06:35:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 803 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/8389464a/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:46:14 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. >Desoldering 20 capacitors and replacing them will take < 1 hour! > >There are other faults which cause the PSU to trip, but most of them >cause it to fail on light load as well. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:54:06 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <19980705235406.6818.qmail@hotmail.com> I would be surprised if it doesn't have MDA or CGA card type. I haven't seen one that doesn't. All Phoenix and Award BIOSes do for sure. I'm not certain about custom BIOSes which are becoming very abundant these days. >I would hope modern BIOSes would include the drivers for MDA and CGA >cards, since they were part of the IBM BIOS. A machine that doesn't can't >claim to be IBM compatible IMHO. On the other hand, having found so many >old features are missing from modern machines, I'd not bet on it. > >> >> -Eric >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 5 19:01:53 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: <3.0.32.19980705194121.006ba2f0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A013F1.6863@geocities.com> thanks guys! John Higginbotham wrote: > > Works fine. You can even run a mono/herc card in the same machine with From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:52:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:46:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/120eec0a/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Sun Jul 5 19:15:20 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? References: Message-ID: <35A01718.37B@gamewood.net> Sam Ismail wrote: > > Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make > out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. > It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. > It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a > handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's > somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says > "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it > unfortunately. > > The UK guys will be able to clue me in right away I'm sure. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 06/11/98] Hi Sam: IIRC the 'Apricot' is a domestic (USA) Apple clone/look alike/work alike. If you don't find any better info, hollar, and I'll go through some of my Byte/Kilobaud/InformationAge etc. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 19:21:08 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 5 19:19:16 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Help figuring out these boards In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail's message of Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT) References: Message-ID: <199807060019.RAA10808@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > Firstly, a 4K HP memory board. Part number 02640-60065(?) Date codes are > 76-77. Its a long card about 12", and has the edge connector in the > center of the board. Looks like it goes into a 98xx series machine? 4K RAM for a 264X terminal. -Frank McConnell From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 5 19:46:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <199807060046.AA18073@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I've asked about this before I think, but what is the Basic/Four? Isn't > it some early 80s mini? MAI Basic/Four was the name of a software company in Tustin, CA. I think they also made hardware, including some PC clones, to run their software, but they were mostly known for their BASIC and O/S, AFAIK. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:20:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: Message-ID: <35A02641.F3B9D645@bbtel.com> The newest machines run 8 bit cards without a hitch. I test mda, herc, cga, ega, etc on a Pentium all the time. The tricky thing is to test an 8 bit hard card on one, the cmos on some goes nuts. I just put an external Sony CDROM with an 8 bit proprietary interface card in a 486DX-50 for a local guy last week. Tony Duell wrote: > > > > this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga > > etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish > > system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux > > term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like > > that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! > > I know _for a fact_ that Linux will use an MDA card. I'm using one now. > And I believe it'll use a CGA card - the sources certainly imply it. > > I would hope modern BIOSes would include the drivers for MDA and CGA > cards, since they were part of the IBM BIOS. A machine that doesn't can't > claim to be IBM compatible IMHO. On the other hand, having found so many > old features are missing from modern machines, I'd not bet on it. > > > > > -Eric > > > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:24:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Inport Mice needed Message-ID: <35A02765.372A9DDB@bbtel.com> Ok I have a scrounge run to accomplish (again). I am in need of from 1 to 3 Microsoft InPort mice as I have the cards for them, no mice (meeces). Anyone got one (or 2, 3) to sell, trade, or "donate"?? No hurry but soon. Reply by direct email please... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:29:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A02894.96C71CB9@bbtel.com> If you do decide to undo the components, either get a "solder sucker" that vacuums the solder off the heated joint or a desoldering iron, a soldering iron that has a hollow tip and a suction bulb that draws off the solder once it's hot. Desoldering wick is a pain right in the..... Radio Shack has the desoldering irons, maybe even the solder sucker. I know they have wick, I pass by it everytime I'm in a RS store. Make sure of the caps you're undoing first though, some hold a good charge and can brighten your day whether you want them to or not. Discharge the bigger ones before messing with them, if you even decide to work on it. Max Eskin wrote: > I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. > And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. > > >Desoldering 20 capacitors and replacing them will take < 1 hour! > > > >There are other faults which cause the PSU to trip, but most of them > >cause it to fail on light load as well. > > > >-tony > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DGoodwin at smcvt.edu Sun Jul 5 22:20:17 1998 From: DGoodwin at smcvt.edu (Dave Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <455BFB014181D1119BCB00805F578DF00224EB32@shadow.smcvt.edu> Hi Christian, Get any takers yet? I might be interested in one of the PDP 11 machines, or the VAX 750 if you don't want it. Maybe the VAX 730 but that's a bit iffy. Drop me a note and let me know. Dave > ---------- > From: Christian Fandt[SMTP:cfandt@servtech.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: July 03, 1998 6:05 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? > > Okay gang, here's the story: > > A week ago on Wednesday I literally stumbled across a Usenet advertisement > listing a VAX 11/750, PDP's, etc available for sale. It was *nearby*! > (Well, 50 miles is 'close' compared to any other DEC classics I've seen > for > sale.) And it was in what is generally considered an even more backwater > area in north-western Pennsylvania! I therefore humbly apologize for the > rant a couple of weeks ago stating that virtually nothing of interest to > me > is available around me. > > To make a short story long, I contacted him regarding buying any RT-11 > documentation he may have plus I made an offer on the hardware listed. He > replied saying my offer was acceptable (Great! :-)). Plus, he said he had > more stuff available. We talked on the phone and he mentioned another > system available. Yet other hardware was put into my pile. When I got > there, and after he had a chance to go thru a storage room, more hardware! > > Well, yesterday (3 July) I took a rental truck with a 15' x 7.5' box and > my > uncle, who's in town for the holiday, to pickup the gear. Only truck > available in the area amongst 8 rental truck shops. I thought it might be > more than large enough. I came back home with that thing actually > *stuffed* > full, all for my original bid. NOW there probably is nothing of interest > left around my area . > > We spent about 6.5 hours loading the stuff. Hauled down from second floor > via elevator, through building and down a sidewalk to parking lot. Thank > Heaven the truck had a hydraulic lift gate. Took 2.5 hours to offload into > the garage. > > Now I have two problems: > > 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew > from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? > > 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house > on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem > #1) > > Why did I take such a large amount of equipment? The person selling had no > other persons seriously interested. Somebody wanted the uVAX but never > followed through to close a deal. Recall I said that this was a really > backwater area. Nobody like us types in ClassicCmp around there for sure > even though he advertised the DEC stuff in the area newspapers, as I > understand him saying, in addition to at least several newsgroups > (pgh.forsale is the one I stumbled onto while searching DejaNews for > anything about RT-11). He had to close out his offices because he's > located > in California now. Obviously could not take the DEC stuff with him as > you'll understand from the list below. He and his wife are going back home > to California Monday or Tuesday. > > > Therefore, the dumpster would be the final location of this equipment. > > So, this has turned into one of those Classic Computer Rescues to which > some of the members of this list dedicate themselves. > > Problem number 3: I cannot keep everything (again, check the length and > content of the list below and problem #1 above). This is where you folks > can help! > > So, please contact me to come and get some of this equipment for > yourselves > or others. This is urgent as I need to clear out the garage again. > > We got done unloading just before dark last night. Today, I made just a > quick list of major pieces to post. Had NO time yet to look at stuff > further. > > Here's the list. See notes below list. > > 1. VAX 11/750-CA > 2. TU80 and RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. > 3. RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. > 4. PDP-11/24 with two RL02s in short rack. > 5. PDP-11/34A > 6. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. > 7. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. > 8 VAX 11/730-CA. Covers off chassis, may not work. > 9. PDP-11/34 in 6'rack w/TS03 and RL01-A. > 10. RK07 in short rack. > 11. RK07-PA rack (rack only) > 12. RK07 not in rack. Said to possibly not work. > 13. RA60-AA in short rack. > 14. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. > 15. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. > 16. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside in a short rack. > 17. 1-LP25 Band Printer > 18. 3 units: Decwriter III (LA120? gotta check this) > 19. 1-Decwriter II > 20. 4 units: VT100 terminals > 21. 1-VT220 terminal > 23. 2-ADM 11 terminals > 24. RL02, no rack. > 25. RL02, no rack. > 26. RL02, no rack. > 27. RL02, no rack, marked "Bad?". > 28. RL01-A, no rack. > 29. RX02-BA, no rack. > > 30. RL02 in short rack w/some sort of Genigraphics chassis. > 31. MicroPDP-11 > 32. MicroVAX II > 33. Empty 6' rack from old -11/34, labeled Model H960-CF. > 34. Empty 6' rack from something else, labeled Model SM-30LLA-LA. > 35. Bunches of tapes for the various systems. I gotta sort through them > first! > 36. Bunches of RL01 and RL02 disc paks. Several RK07 paks. I gotta sort > through them! > 37. 7' tall tape storage rack. > 38. About 10 to 15 shelf-feet of DEC documentation. > 39. Bunch of spare Unibus and Q-bus boards. > > End. > > Notes: > * I refer to 'short rack' or simply 'rack' as the one which is about 4' > tall. Same styling as VAX cabinet, etc. as some of you already know. > > * The -11/34A, -11/24 and 750 booted okay the day before. > > * I'm still so tired. > > * Types of boards in BA-11's and assembled machines are not listed. Will > do > that when time available or opportunity offers a chance. > > * Same for the bunch of spare boards. > > Now before calling me, I must state the following for you to know up > front: > > ** The uVAX and uPDP are staying here! Beverly thinks they are just fine > (as in 'small' ). > > ** One OR two of the bigger systems I want to keep. Don't know which, but > the 750, 11/24, 6-foot 11/34 and 11/34A are in the running for being my > choice along with their appropriate peripherals. I'm asking for advice > from > the DEC gurus in the group on this by private email if you can. Don't > clutter up the list with the advice unless you feel it is necessary to get > opinions. > > **NO documentation will be let go unless it is redundant. That was the > original reason for checking this sale out. I got the RT-11 docs I was > hunting for anyway. > > ** I need to: first sort through the documentation; next organize the > original systems and their spares; finally evaluate what I want to keep. > There will be questions posted here as I've never owned DEC hardware up to > now. I've just been aware of DEC for years and have listened to the many > informative technical discussions here (but I never *retained* much of it > in my mind since I never had any hardware/software to practice it on! Now > there's suddenly a garage-full. Go figure!) Be aware that I'll need help > and may unintentionally come across as a 'newbie', so be nice. I have to > work quickly at resolving this but do not have very many DEC-related URLs > or other reference sources lined up yet. (Send me yours!) > > ** Plan on taking the rest as soon as you can get one or more "Rescue > Brigades" arranged. > > Just pitch-in a few bucks to help with part of my costs (only paid a > little > over 400 dollars for everything *including* truck rental and diesel fuel, > ibuprofin, Coca Cola). Will consider horsetrading. > > ** _Please_ do not hesitate calling me at our home number below 09:00 to > 21:30 this weekend. We have an answering machine if we are outside the > house. We will not be traveling as we have relatives visiting. If you > _really_ have to, you may call me at my office on workdays but I am often > rather busy in other parts of the manufacturing areas. If you *really, > really* have to call during the work day and need to talk to me, my wife > works at the same company and can take the message. Ask for Beverly, phone > 716.661.1843. But try to call the house and find me or leave message > first. > BTW: Don't let Bev tell you to come take _everything_ while I'm at work! > Email is okay too, but I will not be able to read it until sometime > Monday or Tuesday. > > It all has to be out of the garage as soon as possible. Bev is very > understandably kinda pissed off. It's payback time for me. I am not too > happy with the garage either but I could NOT bear to see this stuff > dumpstered. As it was, I had to leave one LP26 Band Printer behind. There > was only exactly one to three inches of space, depending upon which point > you checked, left for the truck door to be pulled down. Truck was piled up > to my height (6', 0"), and even higher in spots. > > Forgive my long message. I'm rather tired and a bit sore yet which causes > me to not be concise or able to organize my thinking well. > > Thanks for helping me rescue DEC equipment. > > --Chris > -- -- > ======================================================= > Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > 31 Houston Avenue, WE Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home > Jamestown, New York +716-661-1832 -Office > 14701-2627 USA Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax > email: cfandt@servtech.com > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/4d0a52e6/attachment.html From gzozman at escape.ca Sun Jul 5 22:52:35 1998 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Help Needed References: <35A02765.372A9DDB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35A04A03.E25612D3@escape.ca> My Kaypro 10 Hard Drive has begun to give me some problems lately; the drive itself is failing; there are too many bad sectors when I try to re-format. The present drive is a Tandon TM502 (MFM, 305 cyls, 4 heads). I picked up a couple Seagate ST-412 drives as replacements, but am having trouble getting the Kaypro to talk to either of them. As far as I understand, they are the same specs as the Tandon, but when I try to run the format program (K10HDFMT.COM), it reports a "Drive Not Ready" error. There is a terminating resistor pack on the Seagate drives. There is also a DIP package with jumpers on it, three of which have been cut. My question is this: are there any physical jumpers which need to be set correctly on the drive or the Kaypro, or is there a "Setup" utility which must be run? Any info on the purpose of the straps on the ST-412 would be very helpful. If there is a more appropriate forum for Kaypro troubleshooting, I would appreciate knowing where to go; I haven't been able to turn anything up except a few web pages of people who have Kaypros in their collections. Thanks! From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Jul 5 17:36:00 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: c64 information References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359FFFD0.93A49E2E@goldrush.com> >From: CharlesII@nwonline.net >Subject: c64 information >Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching >yourself how to program the c64? You can find the text of the Commodore 64 Programmer's Refernece Guide as well as other Commodore 64 related books at Project 64: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcgeek/proj64.htm Also you can get BASIC and Machine Language tutorial programs that run on the 64 at: http://207.26.226.221/pub/cbm/ and http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Jul 5 17:54:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A00418.CB1591A4@goldrush.com> > From: Russ Blakeman > Subject: Re: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) > > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > > chicks!! > > > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! > > Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the > hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 23:12:21 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> <35A00418.CB1591A4@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35A04EA4.E578A339@bbtel.com> Larry Anderson wrote: > Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was > in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though > she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). > > Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* I met mine on a litter detail on base when we both were wearing olive drab and gettiing paid what seemed like slave labor, but neither of us enjoy doing the "buttholes and elbows" litter pickup. I must admit though that unlike the trash we grabbed, I haven't thrown her out, nor her me (yet). If I don't get our dining room visible again soon I may be building a shelter out of old computer units.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 6 00:34:03 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Help Needed In-Reply-To: <35A04A03.E25612D3@escape.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Grant Zozman wrote: > My Kaypro 10 Hard Drive has begun to give me some problems lately; the > drive itself is failing; there are too many bad sectors when I try to > re-format. The present drive is a Tandon TM502 (MFM, 305 cyls, 4 heads). > > I picked up a couple Seagate ST-412 drives as replacements, but am having > trouble getting the Kaypro to talk to either of them. As far as I > understand, they are the same specs as the Tandon, but when I try to run > the format program (K10HDFMT.COM), it reports a "Drive Not Ready" error. > There is a terminating resistor pack on the Seagate drives. There is also > a DIP package with jumpers on it, three of which have been cut. Be sure that the drive is set for DS2 (not DS1) as you are using the second drive position on the bridge controller for the 20-lead ribbon cable. The one that you want jumpered is the next-nearest to the edge connector on the card. See 'sketch' following: __ __ U R NC NC NC DS4 DS3 DS2 <--- This one! DS1 _____ ____ _______ | | | | | | | | | > My question is this: are there any physical jumpers which need to be set > correctly on the drive or the Kaypro, or is there a "Setup" utility which > must be run? Any info on the purpose of the straps on the ST-412 would be > very helpful. Setting the DS value properly should do it for you. > If there is a more appropriate forum for Kaypro troubleshooting, I would > appreciate knowing where to go; I haven't been able to turn anything up > except a few web pages of people who have Kaypros in their collections. > > Thanks! > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sun Jul 5 21:23:40 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: References: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:46:14 pm Message-ID: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:52:46 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > > > > > > I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. > > Well, then, changing all those capacitors is good practice :-) > Nodding... True...Max, practise on junkers first. Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way most of time usually has none of scr or clamp downs to block overvoltage, the PWM ic usually '494 and LM339 monitors the output voltages. Remove the main transformer and check all diodes for dead shorts and leaky capacitors ONLY in the output side, about 6 or 8 diodes and few large 470uF or 330uf or so in 12V part and larger ones for the 5V part. The fan jumping was the switcher ic trying to spin the transformer into one of the short circuit but switcher also have self-protection circuits kept it from spinning until main power is removed. Don't be fooled, at least 2 diode pairs are in two "transistors" casings, but there's markings that looks like two diodes back to back. Both of those "trannies" are always mounted on heatsink. One is large for 5V and one looks like TO-220 case for 12V and few discrate diodes for negative voltages rated at very low currents, sometimes taps off the -12VDC via a regulator on tiny heatsink of all itself to drive the -5VDC. I'm certain this PSU of yours has no "Power Good" wire, that is controlled by same LM339 that monitors all 4 voltages or usually 2 voltage levels and come up on power good wire in delayed fashion after all the voltages is up. > Seriously, Please, Please read the sci.electronics.repair FAQs before > you get started. That's http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ . There are > dangerous voltages in there. At least read the safety notes and the notes > on SMPSUs. Excellent beginner info to surf. Go there. :) But this does not beat the info if you really trace out where all the outputs out on that PSU and pick out most likely components to check with your meter and catch the baddie red-handed. Pure joy when that happens! :) Before I got the ESR, I had to play the game of who's is bad on either caps or semis or both. Sometimes I just go out and swap all the outputs caps right there and there. :) But now that I got ESR meter, the worry is over and this is a MUST to have because the cost is so cheap. Get one from "Bob Parker's" DSE's ESR meter kit from under and to the left without a second thought. > > > And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. > > Which takes the same time for 20 as for 1 :-). I sometimes forget that we're > lucky in the UK in that there are a number of companies who sell > components across the counter. Here there's a Maplin about 30 minutes > away by public transport, another one about an hour away, Grandata (TV > spares) aren't too far, etc. And having bought components many times in > the past I know where to look for them. Bragging rights/Boasting aside, I had to use my friends contacts to obtain very specific components and rely heavily on subs. :-( Boo hiss. :) > > -tony Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 6 02:56:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 12 and II free to good home? Where was that posted? Message-ID: Someone the other day posted a message they got from the Usenet concerning some lady in Hayward, CA giving away some Radio Shack TRS-80s. I thought I wrote the number down correctly but when I called this old lady who could barely hear answered and said I got the wrong number. Could you e-mail me privately with that message if you still have it or know where to find it? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From desieh at southcom.com.au Mon Jul 6 02:59:00 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! Message-ID: <000801bda8b3$eff0f400$c8173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> email: desieh@southcom.com.au desieh@bigfoot.com museum_curator@hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm Well they dont here in Australia..........most of my friends think i very weird............ also i dont have chicks falling at my feet when i carrying home a XT or some other piece of vintage computer hardware, mostly i get looks of "what a idiot" or "thats funney" oh well Desie -----Original Message----- From: Larry Anderson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 1:54 Subject: Re: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! >> From: Russ Blakeman >> Subject: Re: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) >> >> Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet >> > chicks!! >> > >> > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! >> >> Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the >> hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? > >Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was >in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though >she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). > >Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- >Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 >Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 08:43:38 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 Message-ID: <199807061130.NAA11886@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? > In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game > PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular > cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were > probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox > (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of > game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... > Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home computers > with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started > capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video > games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard > and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer wars. :) > Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. Oh, and don't forget all the lame me-to companies who started bussines in 1983/84 and stoped even before the product was final developen - And do you still remember the even more lame cpmpanies who foget to cancel their product right away, when anybody was yelling 'Video Dames are Dead - Long Live the Home Computer' ? One of them I think was a smaal playing card manufacturer called Nintendo. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon Jul 6 07:10:35 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <004c01bda8d7$1544b020$c23ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Sam Ismail wrote: >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > What is this, some sort of trick question? 8" screen chicklet keyboard tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard Hans From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 09:55:28 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <199807061242.OAA17612@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even >>> higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know >>> if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >> You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? > No way. Shure - take a 60 (or 50) Hz clock feed the signal and stop the time neded to show a minute (or 10 minutes to get fractions) - or take any other steping device and look at the stepping speed - This way you could even use an old Apple DISK ][ as a counting device - put it on track 30, hook up the signal and wait until it reaches track zero - you'll get an acustic feedback - now its just finger calculations. Servus H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 07:59:38 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <19980706125938.28730.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I have a board with a z8000 on it, is that the same? What OS would these things run natively? >You must have the XPU (8088) board installed, or it's dead. For >DECmateIII those are scarce. > >More common is the APU (z80) board that runs CP/M-80. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Jul 6 08:29:00 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? Also, can someone point me in the direction of a listing/description of the Apple //gs Toolbox commands. I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 08:55:53 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <19980706135556.4545.qmail@hotmail.com> The Mac Portable uses a special kind of hard drive. A normal SCSI won't work, and I don't think a powerbook hard drive will either. There is a company that sells Mac Portable upgrades, but their prices are ridiculous. Everything is in the triple digits. I'm not sure if they had any original parts. Their hard drive solution was an adapter board for more common drives. You should be able to find it via newsgroups or something. As for the C64, they may have confused it with a 'c', which is the later beige model. > I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more >PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard >drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. > > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > > Thanks! > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 12:07:40 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807061454.QAA28237@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make >> out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. >> It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. >> It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a >> handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's >> somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says >> "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it >> unfortunately. > IIRC the 'Apricot' is a domestic (USA) Apple clone/look alike/work > alike. > If you don't find any better info, hollar, and I'll go through some of > my Byte/Kilobaud/InformationAge etc. I think it sounds a lot more like this fine early MS-DOS / CP/M-86 Computers from Apricot. Non-IBM-HW-compatible systems with a very nice and smooth design (compared to them, still (almost) any new computer looks like 1950's techniks). 3.5" FD way before IBM, and cute keyboards, mice, and even track balls. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Ferock at aol.com Mon Jul 6 10:05:07 1998 From: Ferock at aol.com (Ferock@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Old Catalogs & Equip. Message-ID: I am interested in old (1980-1987) computer catalogs. I'm especially interested in BlackBox catalogs. I also am interested in acquiring old (1980-1987) computer connectors. Specifically, connectors that have their own housing and are used to connect two external devices. These connectors have circuity that converts the data, e.g. serial to parallel conversion or changing signal voltage. The VicModem is an early example of such a device. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Glenn Ferock@aol.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 10:06:14 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706100614.00c14660@pc> At 08:07 AM 7/3/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', >and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. >I'm feeling really depressed about this. >Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. >Dammit, I wish I had dragged ALL the stuff I wanted to the desk and paid >for it, and had them sit it in a back room until I could come back for it. >Dammit, I wish there had been some sort of warning. All I can say is that it doesn't hurt to tell everyone you meet that you're interested in old, junky computers, the kind that you're about to throw out, the ones that can't run Windows. :-) Tell everyone in the store. Tell them three times, three different ways. Leave your card. Leave an extra six cards. Write "Likes Old Computer Junk" on the front of each. This will at least improve your odds of avoiding this depression in the future. In their defense, they exist to attempt to sell the stuff they get. If it's not selling, what else are they supposed to do? If you want to be sad, ask to see what they cull at the start of the pipeline, when they perform triage as items are donated. I get similarly upset at the triage performed at the my favorite local junk spot, the University of Wisconsin -- Madison Surplus sale, as judged by what I find in the dumpster, and the condition and organization of what I see in the sale area. The almighty PC reigns, but are stripped and separated into bins: keyboards here, monitors there, cases here, spare cards here, manuals over there. I've found two of my Teraks in this shape: main unit separated from extra disk drive separated from monitor and keyboard, and any ancillary docs are long-gone. In the dumpster goes anything not easily identifiable as PC or office equipment, but they're quite lax about that, too - I've seen laser printers and faxes only a few years old tossed, along with desks and chairs that aren't stylish enough to sell quickly. If I ran the zoo! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 09:57:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <19980703193515.05e8f011.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706095710.00f5f410@pc> At 07:06 PM 7/3/98 -0700, Doug Coward wrote: > BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. >Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and >sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and >going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids >were playing video games too much. The fad was over. > Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. >Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. I was writing games for a computer music company with several C-64 titles at the time, and it was my impression that the software market disappeared once people figured out they could pirate their friend's software, instead of buying it. That, and the way that Christmas always affects sales, and the way people quickly tired of the abilities of their cheap computer. - John From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Jul 6 11:29:32 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <01IZ2Q7LU5DUB2BJU0@cc.usu.edu> > Well, today I got around to testing MS-DOS disk images from the PDP-8 > archive on the DECMAte III. It read the disk, said "Starting MS-DOS...", > but then said, "XPU Board Error". It then entered a configuration menu > for the DECMate (cursor, baud, etc.). What is an XPU board? The XPU board is an add-in board which contains an 8088. The 8088 is used to run MS-DOS. Without the XPU board, you can't run MS-DOS. The APU board is an add-in board which contains a Z80. It's used for running CP/M. I'm a bit lucky in that I have an APU board for all of my DECmates (although OS/8 is a fine operating system, CP/M is home sweet home). Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 6 10:34:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What > program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the > built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? Well, you had many to choose from. Probably the most popular was Merlin by Roger Wagner. You also had the Apple's EDASM, and there was the LISA Assembler (no relation to the computer), Big Mac Assembler, Assyst, ORCA/M, probably a few others. Then of course there was the Sweet-16 mini-assembler built into the ROMs of the Apple ][ (not ][+ or //e). It finally reappeared in one of the later ]['s, but I can't remember which (the //c+ perhaps?) I did all my coding by poking bytes from the monitor. Its how I learned and its the only way I ever felt comfortable with even though using an assembler would have saved me countless hours. But I never liked any of the assemblers (and I had all the ones I mentioned above). > Also, can someone point me in the direction of a listing/description of > the Apple //gs Toolbox commands. Oooh, boy. I think that would take up several hundred K of information. You need to go out and find the Toolbox reference manuals. I know I have at least one volume, of which I believe there were three or so. > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where > a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm positive its just a plain old C64. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 6 10:36:05 1998 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Infos Draco - what is this? In-Reply-To: <199807060702.AAA18119@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hi! I chanced upon a strange thing in a thrift shop today. A hand-held terminal of some sort called Infos Draco. It was rather expensive (SEK 250) so I never considered buying it, but I wonder what it is. The case is mainly blue with some yellow and red details. Keyboard is in ABCDE (rather than QWERTY) fashion. The longest side is approximately 10" and it is shaped like an L turned up-side-down with a 40x8 character LCD screen on top. There are no manuals but the box seems to indicate Italian origin. It seems to run on batteries but can be plugged into the wall as well (standard Swedish 220V plug). There is also a phone connection and what appears to be a parallel port. I tried to start the thing, but only succeeded in a red light coming on and a happy beep when I pushed the ON button. What is it? What can it be used for? Does anyone want me to buy it for you? /F From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 11:08:26 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: References: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> At 08:34 AM 7/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is >clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm >positive its just a plain old C64. I know this was brought up before, but I never heard a clear answer: What's the difference between a C64 and a C64c, apart from the C128-ish case design on the C64c? I heard rumors that it had better sound chips or something, and all the Commodore dealers (not many left) that I have seen advertise the C64c for about 20% more than the standard C64. From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 11:44:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: ZDS planar type memory board FS/Trade Message-ID: <35A0FEE4.1D6C9B13@bbtel.com> I have a memory board for a planar type ZDS machine, came out of a Z248. This one is the newer type that has four SIMM sockets on it, uses 30 pin SIMMS. There is no memory installed, just the card itself, works great. Goes into the special 32 bit type slots like the CPU, IO and other type memory cards do on planar units. Not sure how many types of ZDS units this will work in. Need $15 for it which includes shipping in the 48 conus states. Will consider trades of equal value cards for ISA, VLB, PCI or even MCA slots, but please no network cards. Will also trade for one or two Microsoft InPort mice, without the cards since I have them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Jul 6 11:49:35 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> Message-ID: The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do 3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new chip revision. Dan On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:34 AM 7/6/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is > >clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm > >positive its just a plain old C64. > > I know this was brought up before, but I never heard a clear answer: > > What's the difference between a C64 and a C64c, apart from the C128-ish > case design on the C64c? > > I heard rumors that it had better sound chips or something, and all the > Commodore dealers (not many left) that I have seen advertise the C64c for > about 20% more than the standard C64. > > > From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:11:39 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807061658.SAA04929@marina.fth.sbs.de> > There's a mainboard flat in the bottom of the case. It contains an 8086, > between 128K and 960K of RAM (there are 2 versions of the board...), > optional 8087 copro, and an 8089 I/O processor One of the vew designs, that (tried) to uitlize the fill power of the 86-family. In faxt: today everybody is moaning about the 'crude' x86 structure (but using it) and nobody temembers that the CPU was only one single part of the design. A design ready to build high efficient and fast computers for multi programming operating systems (Unix et. al.) > (very fancy DMA chip). Thats like naming the Newton a fancy post it thing. The 8089 was a full featured CPU, just with an special command set suited for I/O operations. Anything from serial I/O via disk I/O up to code translations could done in a very smooth and genuine way. Just imagine that the HW depending part of any device driver would run on a seperate CPU - including all the time consuming puffer/unpuffer, notifications, polling and what-ever operations. The 86, 87 and 89 are three independend microprocessors suited for special tasks (asymetric multiprocessing). Today the x87 is reduced to an additional fp register set, the 89 is forgoten and everybody aplaudes the symetric processing hype :( Just think what kind of computing could be possible if this sceme had worked out - need more float ? just add some FPUs! need a lot of I/O ? add anoter IOC... Need huge 3D power? Add some 'MMX' processors and not just some new commands for the same old FPU. Think I should stop. Gruss H. /370 Veteran P.S.: The Apricot is still a white spot in my collection. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:13:18 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <199807061659.SAA05042@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Well, I have a board with a z8000 on it, is that the same? What OS would > these things run natively? Xenix ? At least there have been some ports. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 12:07:19 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980706130719.00949470@netpath.net> At 11:49 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with >an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do >3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise >channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new >chip revision. Ack. I hope those dealers I mentioned before aren't marking up the price just because the c64c looks more like a c128... From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:25:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <199807061711.TAA05628@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What >> program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the >> built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? > Well, you had many to choose from. Probably the most popular was > Merlin by Roger Wagner. You also had the Apple's EDASM, and there > was the LISA Assembler (no relation to the computer), Big Mac Assembler, > Assyst, ORCA/M, probably a few others. Big Mac is still a usefull choice. ORCA/M is more powerfull, but a bit harder to get on. > Then of course there was the Sweet-16 mini-assembler built into the ROMs > of the Apple ][ (not ][+ or //e). It finally reappeared in one of the > later ]['s, but I can't remember which (the //c+ perhaps?) First thing I did after I had my own Apple ][+ was hacking in the Mini Assembler via the monitor (CALL -151) and save it to cassete tape. I had to modify it on the fly ... :) At least the dissassembler was still in ROM - Ohhh good ol times. > I did all my coding by poking bytes from the monitor. Its how I learned > and its the only way I ever felt comfortable with even though using an > assembler would have saved me countless hours. But I never liked any of > the assemblers (and I had all the ones I mentioned above). I'm prety shure Bic Mac is woth a try. After I had FD drives Eventualy I did my own assembler (/370 orientated - before the Apple, I did it the other way - I developed a set of Macros for the ASSEMBF to compile 8080 code (and 6502) on the mainframe) >> Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >> a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is > clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm > positive its just a plain old C64. Maybe - I don't know all the names for the different 65816 projects to boost the C64 - maybe it's one of those ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:41:00 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <199807061727.TAA06487@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. >>Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and >>sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and >>going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids >>were playing video games too much. The fad was over. >> Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. >>Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. > I was writing games for a computer music company with several > C-64 titles at the time, and it was my impression that the > software market disappeared once people figured out they could > pirate their friend's software, instead of buying it. Old story, But never true. Everything about copying was done on the Apple ][ years before the C-64 (remember Locksmith or Nibbler ? :). And everything is still the same - easyer than ever (Buy a CD-Burner at USD 100 and get an idot proof copy programm for free) - so the home software market is dead ? Come on, be serious - it's still the same - if one wants a software and it is availabe (in difference to the early Apple ][ age when a pirate copy often whas the only trace about the existance of a special soft) one still buys it, if the price is right - but if the shop asks USD 500 just for a pop up util, one might look around for a copy - everybody wants new soft NOW - and don't want do search weeks just for a pirate. I still belive that most copys are no harm to the manufacturer. Example - I spend something like USD 150 per month on games (just one or two new games - they are horrible expensive in Germany). Same with two friens of mine - some- times we but a game 3 times - one each, since noone wants to wait one day for the copy. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From van at wired.com Mon Jul 6 12:38:47 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 In-Reply-To: <199807061130.NAA11886@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: Hi there... I just thought I should clarify that the Magnavox Odyssey was in fact the FIRST programmable cartridge based (they were actually circuit cards) home videogame system. Nolan Bushnell previewed this system in Burlingame in 1972 and essentially ripped it off to create Pong. There was also the Fairchild Channel F programmable system which preceeded the Atari VCS by at least a year. xoxo van >>> Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? > >> In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game >> PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular >> cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were >> probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox >> (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of >> game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... > >> Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home >>computers >> with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started >> capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video >> games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard >> and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer >>wars. :) >> Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 13:09:22 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <199807061727.TAA06487@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706130922.00ef8290@pc> At 07:42 PM 7/6/98 +1, Hans Franke wrote: > >Old story, But never true. The delightful thing about discussions of the extent and effect of piracy is that both sides of the argument have a very hard time finding a shred of evidence, apart from the widely acknowledged extent of piracy. In my anecdotal opinion, the sequence of events was quite clear: Mom and Dad decided it was time to get a computer for the kids for Christmas, they bought two-three packages to go along with it, and by New Year's Day the kids are having copy-parties with their friends. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 13:23:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it has is a composite RF jack. Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 6 13:47:37 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 References: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A11BC9.C3FA272E@texoma.net> You have to use an Amiga keyboard, mouse and monitor. you can get a flicker-fixer bmodule that deinterlaces the Amiga DB23 video to let you use a SVGA monitor and there are adapters fand hacks for PC mice and keyboards. I have a 3000 and it's one sweet machime for it's time. James Max Eskin wrote: > > I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. > It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, > and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me > a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it > has is a composite RF jack. Also, are the keyboard and mouse > PC-compatible? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 14:04:39 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <19980706190446.1292.qmail@hotmail.com> I don't think I've cost any companies anything via the 20 or so packages I've pirated over the years, because I wouldn't have bought them anyway (most of the stuff was expensive like Win95, MSOffice, etc.). >The delightful thing about discussions of the extent and effect of >piracy is that both sides of the argument have a very hard time >finding a shred of evidence, apart from the widely acknowledged >extent of piracy. > >In my anecdotal opinion, the sequence of >events was quite clear: Mom and Dad decided it was time to >get a computer for the kids for Christmas, they bought two-three >packages to go along with it, and by New Year's Day the kids >are having copy-parties with their friends. > >- John > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Mon Jul 6 14:45:05 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <19980706190446.1292.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I don't think I've cost any companies anything via the 20 or so packages > I've pirated over the years, because I wouldn't have bought them anyway > (most of the stuff was expensive like Win95, MSOffice, etc.). The list does not need this debate. I hate to sound like a censor here, but this is a perennial flame-war waiting to happen. It can only end bitterly. So please, for crying out loud, don't continue this thread. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 12:25:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? In-Reply-To: <35A02641.F3B9D645@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 5, 98 08:20:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/0100ee42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 13:13:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? In-Reply-To: <199807061658.SAA04929@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 6, 98 07:12:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 999 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/648772e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 12:48:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 02:23:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/d9fcf4f0/attachment.ksh From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Jul 6 13:13:19 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: References: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 02:23:40 am Message-ID: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:48:28 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > > Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% > > certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way > > The symptoms as I understand them are that the fun runs if the PSU has no > (or very light load), but the PSU trips if the load is increased. But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. > > most of time usually has none of scr or clamp downs to block > > overvoltage, the PWM ic usually '494 and LM339 monitors the output > > voltages. > > For normal operation, there's a feedback loop applied to the PWM chopper > control IC, normally via an optoisolator. > > I've just looked at a dozen or so SMPSU schematics. All of them have some > independant shutdown other than the main feedback loop. PC power supplies > tend to have a 339 applied to the shutdown pin of the 494. Just about all > others, including Apple ones, have a crowbar thyristor. One obscure one > has a thyristor which operates a separate optoisolator to apply a > shutdown signal to the primary side. > > Whatever method is used, a PSU that trips is detecting some error and > shutting down. Either overvoltage or overcurrent. A defect in the current > sense resistor is unlikely, so it's likely to be an overvoltage error. That also would not work when either secondary caps and diodes components is shorted. That is what it's like when PSU tries to spin into a low resistance load but PWM noticed that and kept off but when power is removed the PWM disconnects from safety shutdown mode as input power by that mains filter decays causes PWM to run at lower power but enough to make fan jump. > > > > > Remove the main transformer and check all diodes for dead shorts and > > leaky capacitors ONLY in the output side, about 6 or 8 diodes and few > > If it'll run at all, then a shorted diode is not likely. That is not what I meant, PSU are supposed to be loaded always for proper operation and shorted components adds up to lower resistance that trips the PWM controller safties. But with all the loads removed, that PSU is running on that shorted diode as a resistance load at just right resistance. > > > > > Don't be fooled, at least 2 diode pairs are in two "transistors" > > casings, but there's markings that looks like two diodes back to > > Often, but not always. Also watch for diodes in 2-lead TO220 cans (look > like a power transistor with 2 leads). That would be very unusual to me in PSU but someday I would run into these but I only dealt with common stuff, I only saw one or two machines that used this 2 lead in TO-220 case. > > In genral, transistors are designated by Q1, Q2, etc and diodes by D1, > D2, etc. That's one way to spot them. Not USUALLY. :) Cheapo and in good stuff usually does not mark very well. Use your eyes on circuit layouts and components # used to pull down docs off the net if needed. > > But this does not beat the info if you really trace out where all the > > outputs out on that PSU and pick out most likely components to check > > with your meter and catch the baddie red-handed. Pure joy when that > > happens! :) > > One way to find high ESR output capacitors is to put the supply on a > load where it works, 'scope the outputs, and increase the load on each > output in turn, gradually. You'll see spikes appear on the output with > high ESR capacitors. Remember, most guys have no OSCILLSCOPE. :-( Mayor $$$ and very slow to aquire one. > > I hesitate to mention the next trick, because it can damage some > capacitors, but here goes. It's handy for field repairs if you've not got > a 'scope with you. > > Remove the capacitor from the circuit. Charge the capacitor - must be > more than 1000uF - from a 9V radio battery, observing polarity. Disconnect > the battery, and wait a few seconds. Now short out the capacitor with a > screwdriver. If you get an arc (audible click, spark), then the capacitor > is probably OK. Or you're done "zapping" one and putting back that "good" but now blown caps, adding to the confusion. Also I don't relish doing that and can't hear the tiny pop or zapping sound. > > the cost is so cheap. Get one from "Bob Parker's" DSE's ESR meter > > kit from under and to the left without a second thought. > > Yep, an ESR meter is on my list of things to get... I'll probably build > the one in 'Television' - it's simple (a few op-amps), and cheap to > build. The problem with the Dick Smith one is that I believe it uses some > programmed (and copy-protected) device, which means I'll not be able to > keep it running for ever. Oh, I tried to obtain the "Television" from a special inporter mag reseller but they can't find or get them. Well, develop one and make code freely available with circuit layout then otherwise could anyone obtain that cicuit layout and send some to interested party like me. > > Boo hiss. :) > > Yep, nothing annoys me more than companies that won't sell spares. Sharp > are top of the list at the moment - I'll not buy _anything_ from them > again. That one thing but I meant usual parts like caps, specfic semi components and such that is easily available in US and some places in canada but none in my hometown, has to rely on substitution heavily. > of a problem than custom ASICs and mechanical bits. True...byond that most semis not those jellybean ones are what I need and most places have those jellybeans but not those I need. For ASIC's, I resorted to collecting large # number of similar boards that uses same chipsets and take good ones to repair high quality boards. > > -tony Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Jul 6 17:55:42 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 06:13:19 pm Message-ID: <199807062255.PAA21147@goodnet.com> > > > Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% > > > certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way > > > > The symptoms as I understand them are that the fun runs if the PSU has no > > (or very light load), but the PSU trips if the load is increased. > > But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second > later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. I wasn't watching this thread, so pardon me if this is irrelevant... but a coworker was building a new system, and thought the PSU was bad. The fan would jump a little but not power on all the way, nor did anything else (LED's, hard drive, etc.) Turned out it was just that the PII wasn't seated in its socket all the way. So it seems ATX boards will not power up without a processor. The motherboard is in control of the powerup sequence. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * eschew obfuscation * Java * Khoros * electronics * sci fi * emusic * From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 6 18:58:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: HP Portable Plus manuals FS Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980706185817.301feb32@intellistar.net> I have the following HP Portable Plus manuals for sale for best offer. Unless otherwise noted, all manuals are complete and are in HP binders and slipcovers and are in excellant condition. The Portable Plus uses software loaded in EPROM. The EPROMs are not included. MemoMaker/Time Management (no slipcase, no EPROM) Lotus 123 ver 1A (includes Utilities, Tutorial disc but no EPROM) E-mail privately if you're interested. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 6 18:57:52 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: HP 150 manuals and software FS Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980706185752.2f6fcb54@intellistar.net> I'm thinning out my collection and I have the following HP 150 software & manuals for sale for best offer. Unless otherwise noted, all are complete and include discs and are in HP binders and slipcovers and are in excellant condition. I also have some HP 150 computers that I will be selling off. E-mail me privately if you're interested. Joe Series 100 Personal Card File Series 100 MemoMaker Series 100 MemoMaker (#2) Series 100 WordStar Series 100 WordStar Training and Installation Guide Series 100 Terminal User’s Guide Series 100 HP 150 Personal Computers Owner’s Guide From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 18:03:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 06:13:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/0696d818/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 19:48:24 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980706204736.006b94d4@netpath.net> At 06:25 PM 7/6/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >Many modern machines will take an MDA or CGA card with no problems, I am >sure. But I could believe that there are some that don't. All the clone systems I have ever built or worked on supported MDA/CGA in BIOS, and also took 8-bit cards. I even had an MDA running in a Tandy 1000TX with CGA onboard. No hitches there, but that machine isn't exactly one of "today's" systems. I'd be skeptical of any of the newer proprietary systems, PB, Comaq, Dell, AST all spring to mind. >Don't you just tell it it has no hard drive installed, and rely on the >BIOS extension on the 8 bit hard disk controller? Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary cards were even BIOS driven. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 19:49:58 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980707004958.9932.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, no, I meant that if I get it to die on me, and unplug whatever "overloaded" it, it will start back up. BTW, if I do unplug it, it continues working, but the beats on the speaker slow down until they stop. It takes about 5 seconds. >But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second >later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 20:33:04 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions References: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> <3.0.5.32.19980706130719.00949470@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A17AD0.268858BA@bbtel.com> Maybe a buck or two, you can't get much for them anymore, even though they still have a very big purpose in computing. Check sometime and see how many people are using their C= equipment on the net sometime and you'll see what I mean. John Higginbotham wrote: > At 11:49 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > >The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with > >an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do > >3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise > >channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new > >chip revision. > > Ack. I hope those dealers I mentioned before aren't marking up the price > just because the c64c looks more like a c128... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 20:35:23 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: <3.0.32.19980706204736.006b94d4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A17B5B.650BB10B@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 06:25 PM 7/6/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Many modern machines will take an MDA or CGA card with no problems, I am > >sure. But I could believe that there are some that don't. > > All the clone systems I have ever built or worked on supported MDA/CGA in > BIOS, and also took 8-bit cards. I even had an MDA running in a Tandy > 1000TX with CGA onboard. No hitches there, but that machine isn't exactly > one of "today's" systems. I'd be skeptical of any of the newer proprietary > systems, PB, Comaq, Dell, AST all spring to mind. Out of curiousity I tried a Hercules in a Dell 325SX that has onboard Paradise VGA and no problems.... > >Don't you just tell it it has no hard drive installed, and rely on the > >BIOS extension on the 8 bit hard disk controller? > > Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary > cards were even BIOS driven. I don't think they were.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 6 21:24:04 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. Depends on the particular unit. The A2000 has been around for over 10 years now. >It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, >and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me >a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it >has is a composite RF jack. The RF jack only outputs monochrome. You need a A520 modulator to plug into the 23 pin port which lets you connect to a TV, or an Amiga monitor to connect to the 23pin port. It's possible to attach a standard VGA or multisync monitor, but it requires special hardware which is rather expensive. >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup that way very cheap. You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know the price of all of that. One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working one. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 22:10:42 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980706225933.006b7214@netpath.net> At 08:35 PM 7/6/98 -0500, Russ Blakeman wrote: >> Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary >> cards were even BIOS driven. > >I don't think they were.... My mistake. Sony CD-ROM card was mentioned in same sentence though (deftly saving my sanity, BTW.) :) I used to pull that trick to test old ST-225 Seagates when I didn't have an XT machine handy. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 6 22:47:18 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PAIA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Among the cooler IMSAI-related stuff in my haul this weekend was an early PAIA drum synthesizer board. I did my net.homework and found that not only are these guys still around, but they make cool retro-musical stuff like analog synths and even theremins! I'm about to go shopping: http://www.paia.com/ -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 23:08:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 25-1011 Plus Memeory Card for T1000 FS Message-ID: <35A19F43.5C110E42@bbtel.com> I have a Tandy Memory Plus Expansion Board, tandy catalog number 25-1011 that brings the base memory of the machine from 128k up to 640k RAM. It came from a Tandy 1000 (no suffix) but will work on a Tandy 1000A and 1000HD. Full information documents are contained on line at http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/2460.htm Not sure if your model works with it? Check the docs for your model 1000 at http://support.tandy.com/support_computer/2512.htm and look under the memory upgrades page to see if it will. I know for sure it will NOT work on the EX and HX models. The card is populated with the full 512k RAM to bring your 128K basic machine up to full DOS RAM. I need $15 for the card which includes shipping to you in the 48 lower US states. AK and HI should inquire to see if any additional shipping applies, probably won't. Email me direct if interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 7 00:23:20 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: SF Bay Area Get-together Message-ID: <199807070523.WAA05364@daemonweed.reanimators.org> A while back, I wrote: >(c) So...fine, here's a time and place for all us Bay Areans to > argue over: Second Thursday, 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM, El Paso Cafe, > 1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View. Y'all can flame me about > this in public or private, and I'm still open to change, but I want > to announce the real time and place on 30 June. Well, I got busy, then there was some argument, and as near as I can tell all that came out of that argument was that it would probably be a good idea to move the meeting around the Bay Area to give more folks an opportunity to attend. Sounds like a good idea to me, but for now.... When: 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM Where: El Paso Cafe, 1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View, CA What: random discussion over dinner How to get there: From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 7 00:53:56 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: CompacTapes In-Reply-To: <199807070523.WAA05364@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: Over the weekend, in anticipation of getting a TK50Z-FA, I picked up several "CompacTape" cartridges. They are all still sealed, and dated late 1991. The label on each cartridge carries a logo for PowerMon II which is 'Automatic UPS Monitoring and Shutdown Software'. However, the printed text on the labels is rather more provocative. They say things like: OpenVMS/VAX/AXP Ver. 2.2 S/N: 9615894 ST-1013-03-F1 VAX VMS Ver. 3.0 S/N: 9421376 DEC ULTRIX S/N: ULT 294 Any idea what I have here - other than potential scratch tapes? It seems most likely that the PowerMon software is on each, but the disparity of serial numbers would seem to me to make it unlikely that the monitor program is all that is there. S'pose they are bootable? Comments and speculation appreciated. - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 7 03:25:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? Message-ID: Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Jul 7 04:39:13 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. > > Depends on the particular unit. The A2000 has been around for over 10 > years now. > > >It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, > >and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me > >a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it > >has is a composite RF jack. > > The RF jack only outputs monochrome. You need a A520 modulator to plug > into the 23 pin port which lets you connect to a TV, or an Amiga monitor to > connect to the 23pin port. > > It's possible to attach a standard VGA or multisync monitor, but it > requires special hardware which is rather expensive. If your multisync syncs down to 15khz, there is no requirement for special hardware. The NEC Multisyncs up through the 3D all sync down to 15Khz as do many others. > > >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? > > Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. > Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned > the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup > that way very cheap. > > You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what > kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or > 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? > > The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard > Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV > graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know > the price of all of that. > > One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting > in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS > beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. > > I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It > would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working > one. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Jul 7 05:29:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <004c01bda8d7$1544b020$c23ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > What is this, some sort of trick question? I was wondering the same thing, but not because of the simplicity of the answer, because there were so many variations to the PET 2001. I'll assume that 'PET 2001' also covers the 2001N and 2001B models. > 8" screen Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my father's bedroom at this hour. Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen one. I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. I don't imagine it would be too easy to graft a 9" screen onto a 2001N, and I don't imagine anyone would want to, so I guess mine doesn't fit on the list. Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) > chicklet keyboard On the most ancient machines yes. But the PET 2001B and 2001N models came with full-size keyboards, as does one of my straight 2001s. > tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard Keyboard dependent. But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. There's an IEEE-488 interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to the user port on the VIC-20/C64. The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. (As an aside, original ROM machines start up with the message: *** COMMODORE BASIC *** whereas upgrade ROM machines start up with ### COMMODORE BASIC ### I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) Also, the ROMs don't support any kind of serial communication through the user port, only parallel. The case is made of bent sheet metal so you don't want a PET 2001 dropping on your head. etc, etc... > Hans Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Jul 7 08:43:47 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Programming the 6502 (Zaks) Message-ID: I recall someone was looking for this a while back and since I already have a copy, I won't bid on this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20139047 8 may seem steep as a starting bid but this is a great book and it's hard to find nowadays. On the other hand the original cover price was 14.95... Cheers, Dan From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 7 09:53:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: CompacTapes In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 6, 98 10:53:56 pm Message-ID: <9807071353.AA22649@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 995 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/bc2d6a64/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 09:31:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707093105.00c7a860@pc> At 01:25 AM 7/7/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? I've got a dozen-plus antique rolls that I got from someone on the Greenkeys RTTY mailing list, if you just need a pair. If you search the net for "paper tape", you'll find several suppliers to the computer-controlled machining market, with options for paper tape, mylar tape, oiled, etc. I've said it before, the Greenkeys list needs to meet the classic-comp list. Who doesn't want an ASR-33? :-) Sure, the RTTY people deal with both Baudot and ASCII-based machines, but they're dumping stuff left and right, due to these greybeards cleaning house to move into a condo or a Winnebago. - John From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:11 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706121047.0b0f1620@ricochet.net> Sorry to reply to such an old message, but... At 11:28 AM 6/27/98 +0300, you wrote: >>BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite caught on >>in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based computers. Touch >>screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. AI. Home automation. >>The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. Two things I have to debate here... First, pen-based computers haven't yet caught on at the consumer level (corporate/specialized use is another story -- ask your UPS guy) but the technology is about to: The Cross Pad. (Put your pad of paper on this clipboard-type thingie and take notes. Go home and upload them to the computer.) I described it to a CPA and his eyes lit up like a kid at christmas. Voice-recognition isn't commonplace yet (again, in the consumer world) but it will be. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:22 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: AOL History (was: QuantumLink AOL lore...) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706162224.0b0f2654@ricochet.net> Some of you (locals) may know I publish a weekly listing of free stuff happening in the City (plug, plug... see )... One of the upcoming events (at Stacey's Bookstore in downtown San Francisco) is this: Kara Swisher - Friday, July 17 @ 12:30 "AOL.COM: How Steve Case Beat Bill Gates, Nailed The Netheads, And Made Millions In The War For The Web" As a reporter for The Washington Post, Kara Swisher had the opportunity to go inside one of the most watched companies in the world, America Online. In her new book, AOL.COM, she captures the secrets of how AOL became the world's biggest online company. Revealing all the major moments in AOL's frenzied history; from its origins in the dreams of the eccentric entrepreneur, Bill Von Meister, to its triumph under the vision of the young marketing executive, Steve Case. For anyone interested in the Internet, technology, or modern business, AOL.COM is a must-read. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:26 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706183350.0b0f255a@ricochet.net> At 09:29 AM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more >PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard >drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. It's a 40mb conner (cp-3044 or cp-3045) that uses a funky connector. To build a funky-to-SCSI cable, check out the Mac Portable FAQ at . Check out as well. If you don't want to build your own cable, $35 will get you an adapter from which is MicroMac Technology (Also has specs). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 7 13:06:19 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807071552.RAA00007@marina.fth.sbs.de> > [8089] >>> (very fancy DMA chip). >> Thats like naming the Newton a fancy post it thing. The >> 8089 was a full featured CPU, just with an special >> command set suited for I/O operations. Anything from > True. I've got the 8089 data sheet, and a 3rd party '8089 I/O processor > handbook', and it is indeed a coprocessor. However, it's normally used > (and it's used in the Apricot) as a DMA controller, so it's best to think > of it that way, for all it can do a lot more. > It's a lot nicer than the 8237 used in the IBM PC. For one thing it > correctly handles the 20 bit address bus, so there's no problem with > crossing 64K boundaries. For another, it can monitor a Data Ready flag on > one port, and transfew data when the peripheral is ready. No need to have > DMA channels in the PC sense. >> serial I/O via disk I/O up to code translations could >> done in a very smooth and genuine way. > Howver the Apricot has a normal serial chip and disk controller, and only > uses the 8089 for DMA. Maybe I used the wrong words - poor english language skill - Of course a regular Serial I/O chip is still needed, the 8089 has no serial (or what ever) I/O of its own. But instead of the main CPU, the 8089 will respond to all requests for data transfer - shure, you could use two DMA chanals for input/output data, but in difference to an ordinary DMA the 8089 could also handle the status lines and drive a non hardware protocoll - from xon/xoff up to HDLC. Same for any other kind of I/O hardware, not only serial, since the logic is software not hardware. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jul 7 11:20:11 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: S-100 computers & peripherals available - interested? (fwd) Message-ID: I said I would forward this on to interested people... Contact Art directly if you are interested. Note the contact before date of 7-10-98 so you will have to act quickly. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:44:42 EDT From: JARTART@aol.com To: collector@heydon.org Subject: S-100 computers & peripherals available - interested? I have to part with Vector Graphics System B computers, working with documentation and top of the line Malibu printers and Morrow Design harddrive (25MB) add-ons. All circa 1978+. Are you interested? Please contact me before 7-10-98. Art Jensen (800)666-JART e-mail = JARTART@aol.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jul 7 11:32:45 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980707093105.00c7a860@pc> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980707093245.008bc460@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:31 AM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:25 AM 7/7/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? > >I've got a dozen-plus antique rolls that I got from someone on the >Greenkeys RTTY mailing list, if you just need a pair. If you search >the net for "paper tape", you'll find several suppliers to the >computer-controlled machining market, with options for paper tape, >mylar tape, oiled, etc. > >I've said it before, the Greenkeys list needs to meet the classic-comp >list. Who doesn't want an ASR-33? :-) Sure, the RTTY people deal >with both Baudot and ASCII-based machines, but they're dumping stuff >left and right, due to these greybeards cleaning house to move into >a condo or a Winnebago. True enough! Just this past week I picked up a really neat looking model 28 TTY from a HAM that was having a moving dump. Not 'moving sale', DUMP! There was a dumpster in front of his house, and a note on the local net of the starting time. Everything he did not want (and it was a LOT) started toward the dumpster. If you caught it before it it hit the ground, it was yours! He said he had some more TTY gear that he would probably not drop until just before he was ready to leave... I left him my card! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 7 11:38:41 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Looking for Bubble memory card for Apple ][ In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980706121047.0b0f1620@ricochet.net> Message-ID: These may be more rare than the famous GS Video overlay card. Finding one of these bubble memory cards would be something. Finding one with software would be amazing! George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 12:11:03 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707171103.23869.qmail@hotmail.com> No, this is just a 68K, no boards of any kind, just the floppy drive >You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what >kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or >68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 12:15:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707171519.3684.qmail@hotmail.com> What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? >If your multisync syncs down to 15khz, there is no requirement for >special hardware. The NEC Multisyncs up through the 3D all sync >down to 15Khz as do many others. > >> >> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? >> >> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. >> Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned >> the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup >> that way very cheap. >> >> You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what >> kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or >> 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? >> >> The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard >> Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV >> graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know >> the price of all of that. >> >> One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting >> in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS >> beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. >> >> I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It >> would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working >> one. >> >> Zane >> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >> | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >> | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >> | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >> | and Zane's Computer Museum. | >> | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mark_k at iname.com Tue Jul 7 12:25:22 1998 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Stuff for trade in UK Message-ID: Hi, I have some junk which I would like to trade for other junk... - Two Wangtek tape streamers. One is 5125EN, the other 5099EN24. These are not- quite-SCSI devices; they require the correct PC interface cards -- PC-36 for the 5099EN24, and probably the 5125EN too. I don't have the interface card. I believe they work; before I figured out that they are not SCSI, connecting them to a SCSI controller allowed me to rewind tapes, at least - Commodore PET 8050 disk drive, in bits. I took this apart years ago to clean, and forgot how to put it back together again. Never had the right cable to test it out anyway. Could be useful for spares if you already have one of these drives. I would like to get hold of a Wangtek 5150ES or 5525ES tape streamer. Or make a suggestion. I live in Wiltshire, England. Bye, -- Mark From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 7 12:42:41 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > > > What is this, some sort of trick question? > > I was wondering the same thing, but not because of the simplicity of the > answer, because there were so many variations to the PET 2001. No trick. A lady I buy stuff from said she had a 2001, so I needed to know some defining characteristics to ask her so that I could make sure she was talking about a 2001 and not something else. Turns out she had 4016 and 4032 models. I already have both. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 12:47:33 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980707171519.3684.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> At 10:15 AM 7/7/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote: > >What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? Max, your message consisted of one line of question with dozens of lines of previous message. Please consider editing out the parts you don't need. Also, there are dozens of web pages with the pinouts of the various Amigas. Did you try a web search before you replied? I entered "23 pin port amiga" in Hotbot and got 1,970 hits, many valid. Is the Amiga a valid topic for the mailing list? Surely the first models fit the ten-year-rule, but the A2000 falls short by at least a year or two. There are other resources you can tap - the Amiga news groups out-post the classic groups by at least an order of magnitude, and that's only counting the English-speaking groups. - John From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Jul 7 12:53:55 1998 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: >The case is made of bent sheet metal so you don't want a PET 2001 dropping >on your head. I had a CBM 8032, which when a shelving unit collapesed in my garage, fell from a height of 7 feet onto the hood of my car. The hood was torn up, and the 8032 had hardly a scratch, not even the tube.. and still worked fine. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 13:05:35 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 References: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> Message-ID: <35A2636F.67DC3C20@polygon.com> John - I am new to the classic computers list, so I may be out of place. However - if you have a problem with a specific person, is it nescessary to post your reply in the list? Also, the 10 year rule - is it that strict, or just a guideline? I have two MicroVAX 3600, which debuted in 1987, but these weren't produced until 1989. Can I still talk about them here? Before you consider censorship, consider this: Is it possible that other people check list list for information about Amigas of any vintage? If so, will the information about the 2000 be of no use whatsoever to them? I don't mean to insult. Please send your reply, if any, to me directly. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 13:14:48 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: My appologies Message-ID: <35A26598.1F2214B4@polygon.com> The reply-to got me. My previous post to John was intended to go directly to him, not to the list. I failed to notice the automatic reply-to that sent it to the list as a whole. "Sorry - my bad" -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 7 13:21:08 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Doug Spence "Re: PET 2001" (Jul 7, 6:29) References: Message-ID: <9807071921.ZM1059@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 7, 6:29, Doug Spence wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: > > 8" screen > > Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my > father's bedroom at this hour. 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". > Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen > one. > > I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim > Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my > PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: > > PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. > PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys > PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys > PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. > PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. I don't think Jim's list is quite correct. For a start, there were lots of 2001 PETs with 9" screen and the graphics keyboard, without the cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in upper- or lower-case. > Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. > I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) My 2001-8K is white phosphor. The full-size-keyboard ones were green. > > tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard > > Keyboard dependent. > > But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine > uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right > side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external > cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. On the later models, that's TAPE#1 and the TAPE#2 is an internal connector. > There's an IEEE-488 > interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and > probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to > the user port on the VIC-20/C64. > > The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade > ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. Well, they do, sort-of, but a bug in the IEEE routines prevents it from working with anything other than a printer. There were a few other bugs as well, and the upgrade ROMs themselves were replaced later. > (As an aside, original ROM machines start up with the message: > *** COMMODORE BASIC *** > > whereas upgrade ROM machines start up with > ### COMMODORE BASIC ### > > I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts > up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them > whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but otherwise it's almost the same as 3. Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. > It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that > operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 > and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character > set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was > it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) All those POKEs are ROM-version-dependent. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 7 13:23:21 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000, in moderation In-Reply-To: <35A2636F.67DC3C20@polygon.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980707142321.00945100@netpath.net> This is another John replying: I've been on this list, off and on, for about a year now. I have seen the 10 year limit fluctuate quite a bit since I originally subscribed. I don't really care if a post about Linux or Windows, or Pentium II processors pops up once in a while, but that's just my opinion, and everyone has a different opinion about any particular subject. It is also my opinion that there should only be ONE moderator, and what he says goes, no ifs ands or buts about it. He should be the one making the call on stuff like this publicly, not members of the list. Once again, these words are just my humble opinion and are not meant to anger, enrage, ignite a flame war, start a massive thread about moderation, or solve the Y2K problem in any way. So if anything like that happens, it's not my fault. If anyone wants to argue either way on my opinion, they are more than welcome to do so privately so as to reduce the signal to noise ratio. At 01:05 PM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote: the 10 year rule - is >it that strict, or just a guideline? I have two MicroVAX 3600, which debuted in 1987, but these >weren't produced until 1989. Can I still talk about them here? From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 13:59:08 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707135908.00c13540@pc> I intended a very gentle guiding message for Max, and in no way said anything about censorship except self-restraint in the form of editing recommendations (endlessly requoted messages with one-liner replies drive me up a wall). I gave general advice to search the net before posting, as opposed to treating the mailing list as a magic oracle that answers all your questions. Save the list for the truly obscure questions, not the stuff that's on hundreds of web pages. - John From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 14:33:12 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: FW: Houston area VAX for free! Message-ID: <199807071935.TAA13327@cyber2.servtech.com> While hunting in DejaNews for VAX 11/730 info I found this to pass on. Msg a bit old it seems but may be worth checking to see if yet available. Of course, make sure you contact snowcrash@elitemicro.com directly :) >Subject: VAX for free! >From: snowcrash@elitemicro.com (Snowcrash) >Date: 1998/06/08 >Message-ID: <001801bd931c$18c716f0$7b7b7b7b@ironmaiden> >Newsgroups: muc.lists.netbsd.port.vax >[More Headers] >[Subscribe to muc.lists.netbsd.port.vax] > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92F2.2F4565A0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > OK guys, since all I have is an old 11/730, which can't support = >NetBSD, and basically I have no clue how to set any of it up, I'm gonna = >give it away. It is in the Houston, TX area. You pick it up or arrange = >the transportation if you are intrested. Here's what I know about it. > > >Vax 11/730 >(1) RA81 >(2) RA80 >(1) TU80 >(1) RL02 >Some other stuff I can't identify. >Also about 30 assorted terminals. > > Daniel Daley, CNE > snowcrash@elitemicro.com > > -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 14:48:20 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> Hi folks, Still busy rummaging through the truckload of PDPs and VAXen and peripherals and manuals, etc. I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are what I need. Web searches using Metacrawler and DejaNews yield rather meager results. Sites like the excellent PDP site: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/ are what I really would like to find. I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the garage) or to search for. Could any of you folks help point me in the proper directions? Thanks for all your help and support so far. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 7 15:01:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: termnals to get rid of... Message-ID: <35A27E9D.1F964E01@bbtel.com> Ok the 10th is right around the corner so I'll post this one last time before It goes with the scrap. Visual 102 terminal with keyboard - complete and working, good shape DEC VT 100 without keyboard - working as far as I can tell and good shape DEC VT 220 without keyboard - working again as far as I can tell, good shape. These are free except shipping. I need a firm answer for a home by Firday and then a money order for the estimated shipping by the 20th or they go to terminal heaven. hate to do this as I'm sure someone can use them. I still have the last of the working HP 700/44's with keybaord and lookig like brand new for $15 plus shippping too, but I have the room to put it back for a while and maybe even use it later. Direct emai please - RHBLAKE@BBTEL.COM or RHBLAKE@BIGFOOT.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 15:29:25 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Last night I poked a little around the RA60 and the 11/34A that I want to keep. I saw a cable ass'y attached to the RA60 which had two black cables (about 7/8"wide x 3/8" thick) and relatively small plastic 8-pin connector recepticles within a comparatively hefty backshell. Inside the 11/34A cabinet there were a group of four of the same small mating connectors which had four flat, red cables running from that group into a Unibus board in the the BA11 (forgot module number). A 12-foot long cable with two 8-pin plastic connectors each within a large backshell was laying inside the 11/34A box. I extrapulate from a couple of other private msgs that this is probably the UDA50 interface. True? Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. Can anyone give me any info on the TS03 tape unit? It is the only one I can keep so I plan to lash it up to the 11/34A or maybe the 11/730 if I indeed keep that (or both by swapping cables?) Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? More questions to come..... Thanks so far, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 15:51:29 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> What you are looking at is SDI (not to be confused with ESDI). Originally, it was designed to allow extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if memory serves). Subsequent designs were modifed to make it a pain in the rear. The one thing you must always remember about SDI - ALWAYS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CABLES. They won't work if you don't. They're actually four coax cables in one sheath, and swap at each connection. Generally, there will be a cable from the drive to a block on the back of the cabinet, then the large black cables to go from box to box, then the red cables that connect the block to the controller. I don't know if there is a FAQ specifically about it, but there is some limitted info on the NetBSD hardware library. And yes, the UDA50 is the interface. I don't know about the Unibus version, but the Q-bus version (KDA50) is a dual-board set. Each controller can connect to four devices. Generally, most devices will have an A and B channel, which allows you to put the drive on two controllers for fault tolerance. If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just threw out about 10 dead SDI drives and have plenty of leftover cables. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 7 16:38:55 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: termnals to get rid of... In-Reply-To: <35A27E9D.1F964E01@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 7, 98 03:01:33 pm Message-ID: <199807072138.RAA17796@user2.infinet.com> > DEC VT 220 without keyboard - working again as far as I can tell, good > shape. Russ, I know I vanished off the face of the Earth. I didn't mean to leave you hanging, but life got busy here (long story). I am Ccing Tina, my S.O., so that she can pick up the money order to send to you for shipping on the VT220, since I failed miserably in picking one up. It was to Columbus, OH,43202. She will need to know the amount. If it's already claimed, I understand. Sorry for flaking out. -ethan > These are free except shipping. I need a firm answer for a home by > Firday and then a money order for the estimated shipping by the 20th or > they go to terminal heaven. hate to do this as I'm sure someone can use > them. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 16:41:53 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807072143.VAA16384@cyber2.servtech.com> At 15:51 07-07-98 -0500, "J. Buck Caldwell" wrote: >What you are looking at is SDI (not to be confused with ESDI). Originally, it was designed to allow Aha! That explains the handwritten marks on pieces of tape somewhere around a couple of connectors and cables... it said simply "SDI". >extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if memory serves). Subsequent Hmmm, if I have a space problem this may mean I could have the 11/34 in one corner of my basement and the drive in a diagonal corner out of the way? (about 20-25 feet) >designs were modifed to make it a pain in the rear. The one thing you must always remember about SDI >- ALWAYS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CABLES. They won't work if you don't. They're actually four coax >cables in one sheath, and swap at each connection. Generally, there will be a cable from the drive >to a block on the back of the cabinet, then the large black cables to go from box to box, then the >red cables that connect the block to the controller. I don't know if there is a FAQ specifically >about it, but there is some limitted info on the NetBSD hardware library. And yes, the UDA50 is the >interface. I don't know about the Unibus version, but the Q-bus version (KDA50) is a dual-board set. >Each controller can connect to four devices. Generally, most devices will have an A and B channel, >which allows you to put the drive on two controllers for fault tolerance. Thanks for the description and that odd # of cables warning! This sure helps a bit. > >If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just threw out about 10 dead SDI drives >and have plenty of leftover cables. Thanks for the offer. I'll keep this on file. And thanks very much for the info! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 7 16:53:39 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 7, 98 03:48:20 pm Message-ID: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> > I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are > what I need. Web searches using Metacrawler and DejaNews yield rather > meager results. Sites like the excellent PDP site: > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/ are > what I really would like to find. > > I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am > considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check > the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals > and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the > garage) or to search for. I don't know what variety you got, but the R80 (RB80) in the rack with some VAX-11/730's is a cheap and easy disk to use. Slow, but supported. I have one in storage. The 11/730 is the slowest UNIBUS machine made (along with the 11/725, same CPU, different box), .3 to .4 VUPs (the 11/780 and MicroVAX II are the benchmark, about 1 VUP). You can't officially extend the UNIBUS, but unofficially, I have attached a BA11 to a 730. It works, but there are no shielded cables to stay FCC compliant with. It has a max of 5Mb. It'll run VMS4.x OK, 5.x is *slow*. You *need* a cassette in the internal (around the side) TU58 slot. There is an 8085 boot processor on a CPU board. It reads the tape and stuffs microcode onto another CPU board. I have on a disk somewhere, not readily accessible, a program to optimize that tape (speeds booting from 20 minutes to 5). It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. A stock 11/730 should have a DMF32 for serial and parallel. It is possible to wire up a box to adapt the 37 pin parallel port to a centronics printer, but you'll need a 7404 inverter to flip some control lines. It's not just wires. We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, but that was the cheapest way for us to go. Good luck. It's a VAX, but the doggiest VAX there is. At least it sucks less than 15 amps. -ethan From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 7 17:19:29 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> >Last night I poked a little around the RA60 and the 11/34A that I want to >keep. I saw a cable ass'y attached to the RA60 which had two black cables >(about 7/8"wide x 3/8" thick) and relatively small plastic 8-pin >connector recepticles within a comparatively hefty backshell. Inside the >11/34A cabinet there were a group of four of the same small mating >connectors which had four flat, red cables running from that group into a >Unibus board in the the BA11 (forgot module number). A 12-foot long cable >with two 8-pin plastic connectors each within a large backshell was >laying inside the 11/34A box. I extrapulate from a couple of other >private msgs that this is probably the UDA50 interface. True? Sounds good to me... >Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? RA60 is a removable disk, part of the RA series of MSCP (mas storage communications protocol) disks... MSCP is a Digital proprietary protocol, but if you check the uncommented source for the DU handler on RT-11, you'll find lots of info on how to program it (or at least you'll have a chance to figure it out -- it's uncommented) Other members of the family are the RA8x series and the RA9x series... >Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP >interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. MSCP was used for many disks put out by Digital, but not the RL01 or RL02... these disks are smarter than an RK05, but still required programming at the cylinder/head/etc level instead of abstract objects like blocks... >Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was >buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ >pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) >That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? You don't mean an '11/23' chassis... it may be a BA23, or a BA123 (or a BA-11). If you have a J-11 chip on a board, we'll need to know more about the board. Is it dual high? (KDJ11-A -- 11/73A). Is it quad high? (KDJ11-B -- 11/73B or 11/83, KDJ11-D -- 11/53, or KDJ11-E -- 11/93). Is there memory on the board? (KDJ11-D or KDJ11-E) Is there a space for a 40-pin chip? (FP chip, KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B) etc. Then again, you could tell us the M-number and we could tell you what it is... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 12:55:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 6, 98 07:24:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/2166bcaf/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 18:31:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707233144.26765.qmail@hotmail.com> That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, +5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what the difference is? >I don't know much about Amigas, but I beleive the mouse is a >quadrature-output mouse - what the PC crowd call a Bus mouse (and not a >serial mouse or PS/2 mouse). These mice are pretty generic apart from the >connector wiring. If you're prepared to change the connector (and trace >out the connections) then you can move these mice between systems. > >In the UK you can get replacement quadrature mice from Maplin - either 2 >button for the Amiga or 3 button for the Atari ST. I've modified these to >work on a Mac+, an old Amstrad that used a bus mouse, a Whitechapel MG1, >an Acorn Archimedes, etc. They're not cheap (about 3 times the price of a >PC serial mouse :-(), but they are available. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:03:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 7, 98 03:48:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/a831d095/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 7 19:01:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Terminals Message-ID: <35A2B6F5.790C707B@bbtel.com> as you might guess, the VT220 w/o keyboard is spoken for. The others still need homes though. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:22:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 7, 98 05:53:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/14bb9edb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:26:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 7, 98 06:19:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 990 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/5bb357be/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 17:48:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> from "John Foust" at Jul 7, 98 12:47:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/2ce2017c/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 7 19:51:20 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807080051.AA05781@world.std.com> >Eh? While the command set of the UDA50 is MSCP, I wasn't aware that MSCP >command packets were sent to RA drives. I don't see why it would be >impossible to make an SDI controller that used some other command set. Sorry, I was talking at a different abstract level.. just like the RQZX1 talks MSCP on the host side, and SCSI on the disk side, the UDA50 talks MSCP on the host side... I've never worried about what it actually talks on the disk side... >IMHO the RL11 is dumber than the RK11. For one thing the RK11 supports >spiral reads/writes. And to move heads you load the disk address register >with the cylinder you want to go to, not the number of cylinders you want >to move. With the RL11 you've got to remember where you are. Not just that, but the driver is responsible for trying offsets from the center track in case a read fails... Back when we first added support for the RL01/02 to RT-11, it was explained to us that with the RL11, some of the smarts are moved out to each disk unit. This way the controller doesn't have to have all the smarts... supposedly more cost-effective (?!) Anyway, if you lose track of where you are, you have to reset to track zero and re-seek. There are several offsets (positive and negative) that the driver is supposed to try when it fails to read (and maybe write) a block. As already mentioned, the driver has to take care of track to track changes... which means that the driver has to take a user request and process it as multiple single-track operations until complete... Where the RK driver was simple, the RL driver was a PITA... and the convolutions in the MSCP handler are even more impressive... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Jul 7 22:33:11 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 References: <199807070702.AAA12421@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A2E876.C5D11F0F@goldrush.com> Sam Ismail wrote: >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > Depends on the PET 2001, the earlier ones had a smallish calculator type keyboard with an integeral datasette unit. Newer models had a full sized keyboard and no built-in datasette. All of the 2001 series had 9"display, earlier ones displaying whitish-blue the rest gool 'ol green phosphor. The original BASIC (Powers up with *** COMMODORE BASIC ***) has neumerous bugs and lacked disk support the upgrade BASIC (### COMMODORE BASIC ###) had many bug fixes and is very close to 64 BASIC in operation and syntax. There are two motherboards associated with the 2001 the 8k static ram motherboard (only in original PETs) which was limited to 8k ram and used MOS RAMs (Which they soon stopped producing, they just weren't good at memory chips) and the later Dynamic RAM boards which were expandible to 32k. If you need more info there are a couple links: The PET FAQ geared for the recent or general owner of a Classic PET: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.html and The PET Index for the Technical sort of person who wants to know what makes em tick! http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~fachat/8bit/petindex/petindex.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 7 18:35:51 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apricots, etc Message-ID: <199807080340.XAA08215@smtp.interlog.com> OK,for any of you blokes over in blighty I saw this post on Obsolete Computer Helpline. PLEASE DIRECT QUERIES TO THE POSTER BELOW ciao larry >Trig >Salisbury, Wilts U.K. - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 17:15:08 > I have a small collection of 10 - 15yr old apricots, xen, xi and >various other related bits. > Can anyone help me find a home for these cute computers? lwalker@interlog.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Jul 7 22:54:22 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apple and Commodore Computers References: <199807070702.AAA12421@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A2ED6D.711CD190@goldrush.com> > I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What > program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the > built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? > As for assemblers for the 64 if you want to do on-the-fly assembly Supermon is cool, there is a version of it in just about all the popular super utility cartridges (i.e. Super Snapshot, Final Cartridge, etc.) As far as more quality (disk based) assemblers I would go with Lew Lasher's Editor Assembler (circa 1985, hard to find, freeware, and nice) or Merlin (especially Merlin 128 for the Commodore 128). Both are good ones to learn with. There are other like Buddy, PAL, Bettwe Working, etc. but those use the BASIC interpreter to code (line numbers and all.) > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where > a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. I think the person added it himself. There are four flavors of the Commodore 64. Commodore 64 - The original unit, roundy brownish-grey case dk. brown keyboard, a good machine. Commodore 64c - The updated (low-profile lt.cream case, white keys) cost reduced model unlike other reponses no voices were removed. The story is Commodore did a 'bug fix' on the sound chip that affected games that utilized a perceived flaw on the sound chip that made digitized sound playback easy, on the 64c you can barely hear the digitized segments. Commodore SX-64 - the Commodore 64 in a luggable all-in-one unit included 64, 5" color display, built-in 1541 disk drive and audio speaker. Pretty cool, used original C64 chips though Commodore altered the ROMs to better support the built in drive at the sacrifice of cassette support (and compatibility with some programs and hardware that required it.) Commodore-128 - One of the facets of the Commodore 128 is the C64 mode, the chips reflect the older 64 and is 99.94% perfect in emulation except for one memory location which can bump the computer into 2mgz mode thereby messing up the display provided by the 1mghz 40 column display chip. :/ Some earlier games inadvertanly activate this mode. If I wanted to do only 64 stuff the original grey 64 is the one to get. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 7 22:52:33 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980707233144.26765.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout >charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, >+5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what >the difference is? Off the top of my head it might have something to do with the layout of the keys, and a different number of keys. I do know that they are incompatible, although you can get a device to allow you to connect a PC Keyboard, I believe it costs about as much to get the adapter as it would to get a keyboard (go figure). The following page has links to most all of the web pages dealing with Amiga Hardware issues http://www.cucug.org/amihardware.html This is probably the page that will be the most help http://209.167.144.59/Technical.html Also See http://home.worldcom.ch/~jjuiller/docs_en.html NOTE: The Amiga 2000 was released in 1987 and is therefore a valid topic of discussion as it is 11 years old. The Amiga 500 was released the same year. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 8 03:16:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My ET-3400 is 99% on its way to living again. I found some 7-seg LEDs that seem to work, and I've done some simple logic tests that check-out OK. I still have no ROM for the thing, but that didn't stop any of the old Altair hackers, so.... How hard would it be (for a software guy) to replace the ROM with something else, say, a parallel cable from a PC that fed data through the ROM socket? The clock is already very slow, 500KHz, I think, but I could slow it to 1HZ if it would help. Could I software decode the address, do whatever handshaking I need to do from the TTL-levels on LPT1, and emulate a ROM without buying a ROM emulator? -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 07:44:40 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <199807081031.MAA02766@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? > Max, your message consisted of one line of question with > dozens of lines of previous message. Please consider editing > out the parts you don't need. True > Also, there are dozens of web pages with the pinouts of the various > Amigas. Did you try a web search before you replied? I entered > "23 pin port amiga" in Hotbot and got 1,970 hits, many valid. Ever tried this for PET (a classic in any sense) ? > Is the Amiga a valid topic for the mailing list? Surely the > first models fit the ten-year-rule, but the A2000 falls short > by at least a year or two. There are other resources > you can tap - the Amiga news groups out-post the classic groups > by at least an order of magnitude, and that's only counting > the English-speaking groups. Shure, there are resources for anything, including a lot of obsolete computer things beside this list, but if you want to take this 10 year gudeline the hard way, you'll have to cut out any discusion about CGA for exampe - they are still in production. And fr the Amiga 2000 - I have two in my collection and considere them vintage :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 05:36:44 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 7, 98 08:52:33 pm Message-ID: <199807081036.GAA23312@user2.infinet.com> > > >That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout > >charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, > >+5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what > >the difference is? > > Off the top of my head it might have something to do with the layout of the > keys, and a different number of keys. Different microcontrollers. Completely different protocol. > I do know that they are > incompatible, although you can get a device to allow you to connect a PC > Keyboard, I believe it costs about as much to get the adapter as it would > to get a keyboard (go figure). There are a couple of quick-n-dirty hacks out on Aminet (wuarchive.wustl.edu/~aminet). I am not aware of any pre-made adapters which are significantly cheaper than $50USD. -ethan From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 08:07:36 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apple and Commodore Computers Message-ID: <199807081054.MAA04603@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >> a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > I think the person added it himself. > There are four flavors of the Commodore 64. > Commodore 64 - The original unit, roundy brownish-grey case dk. brown > keyboard, a good machine. And the brown and the beige case versions ad of course the golden. > Commodore 64c - The updated (low-profile lt.cream case, white keys) cost > reduced model unlike other reponses no voices were removed. The story is > Commodore did a 'bug fix' on the sound chip that affected games that utilized > a perceived flaw on the sound chip that made digitized sound playback easy, on > the 64c you can barely hear the digitized segments. This unit was also called C64-II. And remember the gray case version. > Commodore SX-64 - the Commodore 64 in a luggable all-in-one unit included 64, > 5" color display, built-in 1541 disk drive and audio speaker. Pretty cool, > used original C64 chips though Commodore altered the ROMs to better support > the built in drive at the sacrifice of cassette support (and compatibility > with some programs and hardware that required it.) Don't forget the DX. > Commodore-128 - One of the facets of the Commodore 128 is the C64 mode, the > chips reflect the older 64 and is 99.94% perfect in emulation except for one > memory location which can bump the computer into 2mgz mode thereby messing up > the display provided by the 1mghz 40 column display chip. :/ Some earlier > games inadvertanly activate this mode. And speaking of the 128 (Which I don't considere a C64) there are at least two versions of the 120D with detatched keyboard. > If I wanted to do only 64 stuff the original grey 64 is the one to get. :) Gruss H. P.S.: Nice PET - FAQ -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 06:12:09 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 8, 98 00:22:54 am Message-ID: <199807081112.HAA23621@user2.infinet.com> > I don't know how 'official' it is, but my 11/730 came with a BA11-K, a > sheilded cable with 3 header sockets on each end, a set of cabinet kits > to plug it into, and the associated internal cables/paddleboards. I > believe it is an official setup, and I think I have the DEC installation > instructions for it somewhere. Wow! When I was using a production 11/730, we _never_ had anything that fancy. We just strung the tape cable out of the side. > > Good luck. It's a VAX, but the doggiest VAX there is. At least it sucks > > less than 15 amps. > > It's also one of the 2 VAXen (The other being the 11/780) that's almost > all standard components, so it can be repaired and kept running. And I > don't have space for an 11/780... One of the 11/730 boards (I forget the M number) uses 4 2901 bit-slice processors. At that VAX shop, we burned through several sets of boards over the years, it being cheaper to buy a used VAX at the time than get a single board repaired at depot prices. I scavenged the 2901's from one board to stick in a friend's BattleZone (6502 with 16-bit vector co-processor made from a pair of 2901's, et al.). It may be repairable, but it's still dirt slow. We used to use ours to link our product under VMS 5 (the VMS 4.x product was compiled and linked on our "fast" computer, a 11/750 (which I still have in storage)). -ethan From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 07:30:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 Message-ID: <199807081230.AA14439@world.std.com> < old Altair hackers, so.... How hard would it be (for a software guy) to < replace the ROM with something else, say, a parallel cable from a PC that < fed data through the ROM socket? not easy at all. You really need to make or buy an eprom emulator that can do 6830 (an oddball pinout). < The clock is already very slow, 500KHz, I think, but I could slow it to < 1HZ if it would help. Could I software decode the address, do whatever < handshaking I need to do from the TTL-levels on LPT1, and emulate a ROM < without buying a ROM emulator? Not possible, there is a minimum clock spec as the internal registers are dynamic and would forget. Allison From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 09:08:22 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> <199807072143.VAA16384@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35A37D56.F859D0EE@polygon.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > >extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if > memory serves). Subsequent > > Hmmm, if I have a space problem this may mean I could have the 11/34 in one > corner of my basement and the drive in a diagonal corner out of the way? > (about 20-25 feet) No problem, if you have cables long enough, or enough junction boxes to stretch them. I wouldn't recommend going diagonally, though, since the cables are thick and unforgiving. Go around the walls.-- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 09:12:10 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs References: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I don't know what variety you got, but the R80 (RB80) in the rack with some > VAX-11/730's is a cheap and easy disk to use. Slow, but supported. I > have one in storage. The 11/730 is the slowest UNIBUS machine made (along > with the 11/725, same CPU, different box), .3 to .4 VUPs (the 11/780 and > MicroVAX II are the benchmark, about 1 VUP). You can't officially extend the > UNIBUS, but unofficially, I have attached a BA11 to a 730. It works, but > there are no shielded cables to stay FCC compliant with. Just a few notes: The VUP is based on the speed of the 11/780 alone. The MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUP. > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're similar, however.... > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well worth the cost. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 09:21:28 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: [...] > > > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. > > Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're similar, however.... It is almost completely 4.2 BSD with some exceptions. > > > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. > > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well worth the cost. > > -- > J. Buck Caldwell > > Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster > Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 > PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 > St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 8 10:10:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980708101002.00c32df0@pc> Forwarded from the Greenkeys mailing list. Current bid is $56... - John Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0400 From: "Charles A. Days" Organization: Old Radio Days To: Major Domo Subject: [GreenKeys] Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW interface Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net Hi, I am auctioning off my entire Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 & 1000 collection. I had used it for program development way back when. As well as Ham radio RTTY/CW. Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20430855 From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 10:15:15 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980708101002.00c32df0@pc> Message-ID: Ahh, there goes my bid! Dan On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, John Foust wrote: > > Forwarded from the Greenkeys mailing list. Current bid is $56... > > - John > > Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0400 > From: "Charles A. Days" > Organization: Old Radio Days > To: Major Domo > Subject: [GreenKeys] Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW > interface > Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net > > Hi, > I am auctioning off my entire Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 & 1000 collection. > I had used it for program development way back when. As well as Ham > radio RTTY/CW. Go to: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20430855 > > > From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 12:37:28 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <199807081523.RAA26718@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Ahh, there goes my bid! This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 10:29:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: TI99: Re: TIer since... Message-ID: <199807081529.AA26150@world.std.com> < all over the US. I went to one and I drooled all over a VAX with a < couple of winchester cabinets, 9 track tape drives, and a big terminal They can be big. Myself I run a slew of baby vaxen (2000s, 3100s and Q-bus Microvaxen). < server. My boss told me I should bid $1.00 on it. I joked and said, "If < I did that I might get it!" heheheh They make you haul the stuff off if That's their revenge. Allison From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 10:31:10 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW In-Reply-To: <199807081523.RAA26718@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: Please don't, that's my bid! :) Dan On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Hans Franke wrote: > > Ahh, there goes my bid! > > This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv > parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. > > Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK > From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 12:47:49 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <199807081534.RAA27313@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> Ahh, there goes my bid! >> This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv >> parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. >> Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( > Please don't, that's my bid! :) So, lets see how far I could push the price for you. 150 ? 200 ? ... :( H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 10:46:56 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 8, 98 09:12:10 am Message-ID: <199807081546.LAA28109@user2.infinet.com> > > Just a few notes: The VUP is based on the speed of the 11/780 alone. The > MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUP. Yes, the 11/780 is a smidge faster than the uVAXII, however, I've seen .95 VUP for the uVAXII, so I rounded up. > > > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. > > Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're > similar, however.... No... I meant that the foundation for Ultrix _is_ BSD 4.2. I have loaded MicroUltrix, and Ultrix 1.1 through 2.3, and have install kits up through Ultrix 4.3 at least. It's BSD with a lot of DECisms on top of it (DEC disk drive geometries, DEC package tools, DEC gimme apps like 2780). > > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well > worth the cost. I haven't seen one that I could afford. I'd love to have SCSI on *any* VAX. I'd even considered building my own (I used to manufacture a Q-Bus/Unibus/VAXBI line of synchronous serial cards based on the 68000). The thing that held me back was a lack of knowledge of how to emulate an MSCP device with something that is *not* register compatible with an RQDX[123] or UDA50. I have written VMS device drivers from scratch, but not _disk_ device drivers. -ethan From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 11:06:42 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs References: <199807081546.LAA28109@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35A39912.900822A5@polygon.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well > > worth the cost. > > I haven't seen one that I could afford. I'd love to have SCSI on *any* VAX. > I'd even considered building my own (I used to manufacture a Q-Bus/Unibus/VAXBI > line of synchronous serial cards based on the 68000). The thing that held me > back was a lack of knowledge of how to emulate an MSCP device with something > that is *not* register compatible with an RQDX[123] or UDA50. I have written > VMS device drivers from scratch, but not _disk_ device drivers. Personally, if it came to building a board from scratch, I'd have to say I'd prefer a MSCP compatible Dual IDE controller. Drives are cheaper. I can just see sticking four 5g IDE drives into my BA123 - 20 g of space, for less than a grand. Gee, I wonder if the power supply could handle it (snicker). There are MSCP docs somewhere out their on the web - or you could talk to the NetBSD-vax people, I believe at least one of them has the MSCP handbook. I'd buy it if you built it. (well, a Q-bus version, anyway) -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Wed Jul 8 11:37:46 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Fw: museun? mag disk? Message-ID: <000301bdaa8e$bcf39580$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Please contact poster directly Phil Baumeister wrote in message <6nuqu8$qi8$2@ultra.sonic.net>... > please remove -nospam when replying > > i would like to find a home for a > 2314 magnetic disk file drive > that was once (1968) mounted > on IBM 360 main frames. > > items that are 20 years old are > junk and are trashed. but this > is 30 years old. where should > it end up? > > any suggestions? > > phil baumeister > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 11:36:54 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980708163655.14083.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, thank you, but here is a question that wasn't answered by the pinout: how do I double the frequency to 30hz, which is the lowest my monitor can do, according to the manual? >It would take less bandwidth to actually answer the question, so here you >are. > >1 XCLK* (External video clock) >2 XCLKEN* (External video clock enable) >3 Red (Analogue red video output) >4 Green >5 Blue >6 DI (Digital (TTL) intensity output) >7 DB (TTL blue output) >8 DG (TTL green) >9 DR (TTL Red) >10 CSync* (Composite sync) >11 HSync* (Horizontal sync) >12 VSync* (Vertical sync) >13 GNDRTN (Digital ground) >14 ZD* >15 C1* (Clock output) >16-20 Ground >21 -12V @ 50mA >22 +12V @ 100mA >23 +5V @ 100mA > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 11:38:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807081638.AA11579@world.std.com> < Personally, if it came to building a board from scratch, I'd have to say I < compatible Dual IDE controller. Drives are cheaper. I can just see stickin < my BA123 - 20 g of space, for less than a grand. Gee, I wonder if the powe < (snicker). There are MSCP docs somewhere out their on the web - or you cou < people, I believe at least one of them has the MSCP handbook. I'd buy it i < Q-bus version, anyway) A IDE controller for Qbus is fairly straightforward if your willing to have a little local intelligence for cache and dma management. If your willing to write a non-MSCP VMS driver or unix driver for it. Adding MSCP may make it more difficult as there is far more taskwork. Doing it as scsi is not much worse... it's the scsi controllers and the associated software that are a pain. Allison From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 8 12:03:15 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: ISC Intecolor 8051 Circa 1978 Message-ID: <1998Jul08.130215.1767.117236@smtp.itgonline.com> I recently rescued an Intelligent Systems Corp. model 8051 Intecolor terminal/pc, s/n 5013 from the side of a road (there were several printers which first caught my eye, this unit has a wood grained plastic cover which first made me think it was an old window air conditioner as it was face down and covered with other junk). I saw this advertised in the February and December issues of Byte Magazine as a model 8001. The December 76 Byte ad states this is an intelligent terminal that can be upgraded to a personal computer by adding Basic and extra ram (this appears to have been upgraded). I had never seen one of these in person before and didn't realize how massive they are: 17" high by 19 1/2 " wide by 22" deep, weighing at least 50 pounds (although I haven't weighed it). The tube is a 19" color. There are 9 slots inside with a CPU/I/O/Keyboard board (Intel 8080A), memory, additional memory board, prom board (with Basic and others) plus a floppy controller. Ports (DB25) are J1 Modem, J2 Floppy Tape, J3 Keyboard, J4 24 Bit I/O (this port is blank actually),J5 Floppy Disk, J6 USART (port is blank). Unfortunately there was no keyboard or documentation and outside of the Byte ads I don't know anything about this. Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard and documentation for this? Also the power cable is non-standard, per a friend of mine it was used by typewriter manufacturers and is known as a AC Victor cable. Thanks, Marty From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 8 12:20:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <13370057691.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new login program). The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large mainframes. Where can I find information about it? Oh, if you want to see the results of my screwing around (And my first hackery in C that ever worked!) telnet at ubani.umtec.com. ------- From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 8 14:01:56 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Right. Lets hope my mail software (Lotus Cack-Mail) doesn't crash just as I get near the end of this reply, as it did last time. First, all concerned should glance at Larry A's PET faq, the address of which he posted a few messages ago. Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 7, 6:29, Doug Spence wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: >> > 8" screen >> >> Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my >> father's bedroom at this hour. > > 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". I agree with Pete, not that it makes much difference. >> Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen >> one. No. Never. 12 inch screen on 4032 (or possibly 4016) and above only. >> I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim >> Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my >> PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: >> >> PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. >> PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen >> PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen >> PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen First PETS: 2001-4 and 2001-8 (also called 4k PET and 8k PET). Blue trim, blue-white phosphor, mangled and rebadged cassette (I can't remember whose) that you open by lifting the lid. Then: 2001-4 and 2001-8 get Black trim and C2N cassette deck Then: Green screen. Next was the ROM upgrade. Usual models were 2001-8N, 2001-16N, 2001-32N, 2001-8B, 2001-16B and 2001-32B. These had full-sized keyboards and external C2N decks. In the UK, 2001-8N with tiny keyboard and built in C2N was common. This was not a new motherboard in an old case - the case was a different shape (slightly less tall). Larry has suggested that these might be the 2001-8K, K standing for Calculator (-style keyboard) (sic). All of these had small screens. >> PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys >> PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys >> PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. >> PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged I've never heard of 2001NT. AFAIK, N = Non business keyboard. The top row of keys was !"#$%^&'() like the tiny keyboard machines - numbers were only on the number pad. B = Business keyboard. Top row of keys was 1234567890, shift gave you !"# etc. This meant you couldn't get some of the "graphics" characters that came from shift-! etc. Hence the reference to "Num. Keys" above. > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. Strange. Full size keyboard with graphics symbols should be 2001-8N > I don't think Jim's list is quite correct. For a start, there were lots > of 2001 PETs with 9" screen and the graphics keyboard, without the Nor do I. All 2001 PETs had 9 inch screens. > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit later. > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of > course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > upper- or lower-case. Was it? That's weird! Even weirder, though, was the lower case implementation. Take a couple of steps back and get a wider view: PET had two internal character codes. Screen codes and "ASCII". Screen codes went from 0 to 127, and didn't include control codes; they then went from 128 to 255 in "reverse field" (inverse video). Bit 6 (the 64s bit) told you whether it was a shifted character or not. 0 to 31 were @, ABC...Z, [\], up arrow, left arrow. 32 to 63 were conventional ASCII. 64 to 127 were the graphics characters you got from shifting these. First problem - nowhere for lower case. PET, in translating ASCII (or PETSCII as it became known) into screen codes, didn't bother to implement lower case. First it checked for control codes (0 to 31 and 128 to 159) and then it ANDed the ASCII code with 63 and stuck it on the screen. Well, sort of. The ASCII codes for the shifted characters were displaced from the unshifted ones by 128 instead of 64. Now, lower case mode. Early PETs kept the bottom 128 ASCII codes exactly as they were. Lower case went in the top 128 - NOT where you'd conventionally put it (those who followed the algorithm above will have worked out that the conventional ASCII codes for lower case would display space, !"#$ etc.). Since lower case was implemented in the character generator only - an I/O pin went to an address line on the character ROM - you had to use SHIFT to get LOWER case. And that was the second problem. Later PETS swapped lower and upper case letters. So now ASCII codes 65 and up, which still mapped onto screen codes 1 and up, gave LOWER case letters, but you pressed SHIFT for upper case. However the OS and BASIC (one and the same, really) treated unshifted as letters, and shifted as meaningless graphics characters, whichever mode you were in. Confused? It is, isn't it! >> Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. >> I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) > > My 2001-8K is white phosphor. The full-size-keyboard ones were green. The common arrangement. But the colour change predated the ROM and Keyboard Size changes. Just. >> But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine >> uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right >> side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external >> cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. > > On the later models, that's TAPE#1 and the TAPE#2 is an internal connector. > >> There's an IEEE-488 aka GPIB, HPIB >> interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and >> probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to >> the user port on the VIC-20/C64. IEEE-488 to RS232 converters were very popular here, since PET had no serial port. Alternatively, software could be written to drive a pin on the user port serially. I know. I've done it. >> The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade "Don't support a disk drive" is a euphemism for so many bugs you can't use it at all! >> ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... >> I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts It says "COMMODORE BASIC 4.0" but I can't remember whether between *** or ###. >> up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them >> whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) Indeed. Type WAIT 6502,100 > There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade > ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the > disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but > otherwise it's almost the same as 3. I have heard all sorts of numbering schemes for BASIC versions. The only thing they agree on is 4. AFAIK, the BASIC in 3008 and friends was identical to the upgrade ROMs that went in original PETs. > Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. That clears up my mystery above. Thank you. >> It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that >> operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 >> and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character >> set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was >> it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) > > All those POKEs are ROM-version-dependent. Wrong, I'm afraid. POKE 59468, 12 (UC/graphics) and POKE 59486,14 (LC) are INDEPENDENT of ROM version. On 8032/8096, 8296 and Fat 40 you can use PRINT CHR$(14) and PRINT CHR$(142) (CTRL-N and CTRL-SHIFT-N except that PET never had a control key) to change between the modes. These codes also change to wide line spacing in LC mode, which the pokes don't. Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 8 14:09:02 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <9806088999.AA899950256@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. > Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP > logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX > actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new > login program). Fun! Now you need to write cmsh. > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? Virtual Machine System Product. I'll have a look thro' my IBM junk at home this evening, but I don't think I've got much on it. IBM draw boundaries in different places, but under VM operating system (CP, Control Program) usually ran CMS Conversational Monitor System - a bit like a shell, hence my pun above... The first scripting language for VM/CMS was CMS EXEC. I never used it but I understand it was awful. Later came EXEC2 - lots of & characters (I think - or were they % characters?) to identify names, or reserved words, or something. This was still the official scripting language when I encountered VM, but I, like everyone else, used REXX. This has exhausted my memory - I'm off home. Philip. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 8 13:34:42 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk "Re[2]: PET 2001" (Jul 8, 19:01) References: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <9807081934.ZM2302@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 8, 19:01, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > I've never heard of 2001NT. I have, but I don't think I've seen one. Unless it's actually identical to another model :-) > AFAIK, N = Non business keyboard. The top row of keys was !"#$%^&'() > like the tiny keyboard machines - numbers were only on the number pad. > > B = Business keyboard. Top row of keys was 1234567890, shift gave you > !"# etc. This meant you couldn't get some of the "graphics" characters > that came from shift-! etc. That refreshes my memory. There's a POKE to get the graophics but the default is as described. > Nor do I. All 2001 PETs had 9 inch screens. That's what I thought, but I didn't want to be to dogmatic (just for a change :-)) > > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions > > Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit > later. Not absolutely sure, but around that time the local authority was buying a lot of PETs and I never saw a 3000 less than 16K, and never saw a business-keyboard 2001. > > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > > with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of > > course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was > > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). > > Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware > and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, > making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... Hmm, that does sound more likely. Come to think of it, the 8000 were the fiorst I saw with a 12" screen as well. > > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > > upper- or lower-case. > > Was it? That's weird! Yes :-) > Even weirder, though, was the lower case implementation. [ snip ] > Confused? It is, isn't it! I remember it caused som amusement with non_PET printers. > IEEE-488 to RS232 converters were very popular here, since PET had no serial > port. Alternatively, software could be written to drive a pin on the user port > serially. I know. I've done it. I've done that too. And there were a few serial converters, as Philip says. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 13:05:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807081112.HAA23621@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 8, 98 07:12:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/251447dd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 12:43:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807080051.AA05781@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 7, 98 08:51:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2329 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/f65335bf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 13:12:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980708163655.14083.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 8, 98 09:36:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/dda2bde3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 12:47:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 8, 98 03:16:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/013b986b/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 15:19:00 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807082021.UAA07364@cyber2.servtech.com> At 18:19 07-07-98 -0400, mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote: > -- snip -- > >>Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was >>buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ >>pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) >>That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? > >You don't mean an '11/23' chassis... it may be a BA23, or a BA123 (or >a BA-11). If you have a J-11 chip on a board, we'll need to know >more about the board. Is it dual high? (KDJ11-A -- 11/73A). Is it >quad high? (KDJ11-B -- 11/73B or 11/83, KDJ11-D -- 11/53, or KDJ11-E -- >11/93). Is there memory on the board? (KDJ11-D or KDJ11-E) Is there >a space for a 40-pin chip? (FP chip, KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B) etc. > >Then again, you could tell us the M-number and we could tell you what >it is... :-) I took a look at that board last evening. It's indeed an 11/73 as the module # is M8192-YB. Thanks to the "Field Guide to Q-bus and Unibus Modules" found at sunsite.unc.edu I found this mentioned. I had just found that FG @ sunsite:) That field guide is *really* handy! However, no maintenance has been done on it since 1995 it seems. I have five M-numbers to add that I found in the 11/34A which are not on the list. They are for the five-board set designated as "RK611". This RK611 is the controller set for the RK07 drives which were hung onto the machine. The #'s are M7900 thru M7904, inclusive. Any of you know if either this guide is just stagnant or is there a fully maintained, up-to-date version anywhere? The 11/23 chassis I have is the small 5" high chassis which has the plastic bezel and several switches on the front panel which says it's an 11/23. I did not have time to pick it up and find the BA# yet. I'll inventory the other boards in it tonite if I am allowed into the garage;) --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 8 15:44:25 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VM/SP In-Reply-To: <13370057691.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jul 8, 98 10:20:25 am Message-ID: <199807082044.QAA04052@shell.monmouth.com> > > This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. > Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP > logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX > actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new login program). > > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? > > Oh, if you want to see the results of my screwing around (And my first > hackery in C that ever worked!) telnet at ubani.umtec.com. Slick... Looks like the Profs login I had at IBM. Here's mine... I've got a case of VAX/VMS envy. The motd quotes are from the BSD Fortune program. One day I hope for real FreeVMS at home. (although I'm quite happy with FreeBSD...) $telnet localhost Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. FreeVMS 1.0 alpha (i4got) (ttyp3) Username: pechter Password: Last login: Wed Jul 8 16:30:48 from algw2.lucent.com Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD i4got.pechter.org 2.2.6-STABLE-Fri Jun 5 21:45:21 EDT 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Quotations from chairman Ken | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." -- Ken Olsen, President of DEC, World Future Society Convention, 1977 -+-+=-+- One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines. Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. It's great for students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs between different machines. And so, because of its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s. It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming. With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all there. -+-+=-+- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a James Bond | | villain." -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 15:54:23 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: References: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807082056.UAA08552@cyber2.servtech.com> At 00:03 08-07-98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> Still busy rummaging through the truckload of PDPs and VAXen and >> peripherals and manuals, etc. >> >> I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are > >I've got one, but I've not done much with it, due to lack of technical >info, like a printset. And it's something of a big job to figure it all >out on my own... Yeah, anybody out there got any printsets, operating manuals or *anything* for our 730s? Meanwhile, virtually *no* other additional info has turned up either in my searches or results of my query to the list of yesterday. > >> I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am >> considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check >> the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals > >Now, this is digging into the depths of my memory, so I'm probably going >to get something wrong, but IIRC... > >The box has a cardage on the left. On the right there's a PSU on top, and >a TU58 (strange layout, but otherwise a stock TU58) underneath. One tape >drive is on the front, the other (used for the system microcode) is on >the right side of the chassis. On this particular model of 11/730, both TU58's are side-by-side on the front. We can compare serial numbers which may, if the numbers make any chronological sense, tell us which style was earlier (I suspect the side-by-side was later.) > >There are 12 slots. At the top is the Integrated Disk controller (uses >the CPU logic for much of the functionality). It'll control an R80 (Much >modified SMD interface!), and RL drives. The next slot is for an optional >floating point board, and may be empty. The next 3 slots are the CPU >logic - don't ask me to remember what goes where!. The next 4 (?) slots >are for memory boards, and maybe unibus devices as well. The remaining >slots are Unibus slots. As standard a DMF32 (serial and parallel port) >card should be in one of them. It's not required, but VMS probably >expects it. I'll try to get time to inventory the cards in the crate tonite and pass the list of M-numbers on to the list. By comparing what-is-where, maybe we can see if my box is somewhat complete. Input is very welcome from the others on the list. IIRC, with just a brief look inside, most of the slots were occupied. Three or four were empty I think. I'm hopeful the field guide I mentioned in the PDP thread has all these modules listed. Also, I'm hopeful the machine is complete although I know the Ethernet controller has been swiped as the ribbon cable from the connector panel in back is just hanging loose in the crate. > >> and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the >> garage) or to search for. > >IF you don't have an R80, keep at least one RL drive, and some other >Unibus drive subsystem... RL01's and -02's, RK07's and a single RA60 are the only drives I have available. Both RA81's are spoken for I think. The RL01's and RL02's are not practical from a capacity standpoint to run VMS on the 730 I feel (*especially* the 5 MB RL01's!) You mention an R80 drive above. Do you actually mean RA80? Thanks agian for your valuable input! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 16:43:23 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: References: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> At 00:26 08-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> >Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? >> >> RA60 is a removable disk, part of the RA series of MSCP (mas storage >> communications protocol) disks... MSCP is a Digital proprietary > >Eh? While the command set of the UDA50 is MSCP, I wasn't aware that MSCP >command packets were sent to RA drives. I don't see why it would be >impossible to make an SDI controller that used some other command set. > >> >Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP >> >interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. >> >> MSCP was used for many disks put out by Digital, but not the RL01 or >> RL02... these disks are smarter than an RK05, but still required > >IMHO the RL11 is dumber than the RK11. For one thing the RK11 supports >spiral reads/writes. And to move heads you load the disk address register >with the cylinder you want to go to, not the number of cylinders you want >to move. With the RL11 you've got to remember where you are. > In a msg sent to the list by me a short while ago, I mentioned a five-board set which was designated RK611 according to text on the foil of side 2 of three of the boards. How is the RK611 interface different from the others? On another subject, in several of the PDP machines here there's an M7856 module (the DL11-W option) designated as "SLU and realtime clock". What exactly does SLU mean in this case? Serial Line Unit? BTW, two M7856 modules are in the 11/34A I'm keeping. One has a hand-written label saying "CONSOLE" and the other is several incomprehensible letters also hand-written. I assume the Operator's Console, such as an LA120 or VT-something is attached to the module labeled "CONSOLE". It does have a cable running from the module connector out to a 25pin "D" connector bolted to the back of the cabinet which in turn has a ten or 15-foot cable attached. There are a group of 16 D25 connectors on the back panel of the machine (cabled to the two M7819's) obviously for the user terminals. Unlike the IBM 9370 and HP 250/30 machines I have, on which the operator's console is attached to one of the corresponding group of user terminal connectors, it seems there typically is a separate serial console connector for the DEC world just for the system operator. Is my thinking correct here? The second M7856, what could that be for? The cable attached to that other M7856 has a connector on the other end with, IIRC, 6 or 7 pins inside a flat, white nylon shell. Length of the cable is about three or four feet. The nylon shell end connects to nothing that I can see anywhere. Another BTW: it seems I have a fairly nice 11/34A that I'm keeping out of that truckload. It has an M8267 FP processor (FP11-A) attached to the KD11-EA processor board pair (M8265 & M8266) along with the M8268 11/34 cache module (KK11-A), etc. I will ask the list more questions about the 11/34A soon as I want to fire her up and check her out. Those questions would be something on the order of "What do I do first, second, next, etc." (told ya I would ask 'newbie-like' questions!) I already see some notes attached to the machine as to bootup sequence but I'm sure I'll have to check with you folks a little first. There are likely disk packs buried in that heap of packs which are called for in that note. There are maybe 75 to 80 packs to rummage through. Just hope they're labeled in some manner!! It was said to run RSX-11M and I gotta crack the manuals on that OS before I get too close to the power switch. Anything I should know or do first before I apply power? Thanks for your help! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 8 17:10:01 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas (for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: Amiga Workbench v1.2 Amiga Kickstart v1.1 Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 Amiga Kickstart v1.2 can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and dump them someplace on the web. -Eric From spc at armigeron.com Wed Jul 8 15:13:25 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 8, 98 05:10:01 pm Message-ID: <199807082013.QAA21176@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Poesie once stated: > > > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas > (for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic > things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > > Amiga Workbench v1.2 > Amiga Kickstart v1.1 > Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 > Amiga Kickstart v1.2 The Kickstart disks are essencially the first stage boot disks and load the basic OS into memory. Later Amigas had most of this OS stored in ROMs and the need for Kickstart disks went away. The Workbench disk is, for lack of a better term, the desktop program (something like the Finder under MacOS, or Explorer under Windows 9x). You would stick in the Kickstart disk, then at the appropriate time, stick in the Workbench disk of the same version. The Extras disk are some simple utilities and programs, which include the Basic interpreter, which isn't worth the space used to store it. It's the only piece of software from Microsoft for the Amiga (I believe) and is fairly buggy and slow. The TV/Text sounds like a program used to generate video text, like movie titles and captions. The Amiga was used quite a bit in the video industry. -spc (Hope this helps some) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 17:18:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <19980708221813.4638.qmail@hotmail.com> Workbench is the Amiga Graphical Operating System, the synonym of Windows on a PC or Finder on a Mac. Kickstart is a low-level piece of software, that could be on ROM or floppy. I'm sure you can guess what Amiga BasiC is. I don't know about TV/Text. Were there any books? BTW, don't put them on the web, the copyrights still hold. I mean, go ahead if you want to, but Amiga has not made the stuff PD and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is coming up) > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas >(for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic >things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > >Amiga Workbench v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.1 >Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.2 > >can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text >program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and >dump them someplace on the web. > >-Eric > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 17:24:20 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807082224.AA17997@world.std.com> >On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: >[...] >> >> > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, >> >1.1. >> >> Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that >>they're similar, however.... > >It is almost completely 4.2 BSD with some exceptions. And those exceptions are the 4.3BSD code which was ported... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 17:29:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807082229.AA21869@world.std.com> < > It may be repairable, but it's still dirt slow. We used to use ours to < < I thought this was classiccmp, and not high-speed-VAX-list :-). It was slow! However people liked them as a machine could be fitted to one 40" rack maybe two and run forever in a closet. That and the VAX archetectures ability to stand heavy loads and slow down gracefully made them good workhorse machines for many tasks. it upside was it used unibus perpherals, compact, ran under 10a@120V and was generally a 24x7x365 machine. For a lot of people they are nice as they get you a "real iron" vax and still fit it in a room. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 15:18:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 8, 98 07:01:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1346 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/81eb5733/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 18:52:30 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807082352.AA16263@world.std.com> At 00:26 08-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: < On another subject, in several of the PDP machines here there's an M7856 < module (the DL11-W option) designated as "SLU and realtime clock". What < exactly does SLU mean in this case? Serial Line Unit? Correct SLU= serial line unit and a DLxxxx is a standard serial interface for PDP-11 software. < "CONSOLE". It does have a cable running from the module connector out to < 25pin "D" connector bolted to the back of the cabinet which in turn has a < ten or 15-foot cable attached. Yep, serial console usually a printing console (la120) as printed logs go to console for some OSs (rsts and RSX-11) < There are a group of 16 D25 connectors on the back panel of the machine < (cabled to the two M7819's) obviously for the user terminals. Unlike the Yes, user serial lines one per. < IBM 9370 and HP 250/30 machines I have, on which the operator's console i < attached to one of the corresponding group of user terminal connectors, i < seems there typically is a separate serial console connector for the DEC < world just for the system operator. Is my thinking correct here? The system console is a unique device and all (rare exceptions) pdp11 systems expect it and its address and interrupt will always be the same. < The second M7856, what could that be for? The cable attached to that othe < M7856 has a connector on the other end with, IIRC, 6 or 7 pins inside a < flat, white nylon shell. Length of the cable is about three or four feet. < The nylon shell end connects to nothing that I can see anywhere. another serial line with a current loop (20ma) for some terminal or printer. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 18:45:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807082056.UAA08552@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 8, 98 04:54:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/d604fbe3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 18:59:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 8, 98 05:43:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/dda5a195/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 19:01:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807082229.AA21869@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 8, 98 06:29:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/024adc6a/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 8 21:09:50 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software, cont'd. Message-ID: <001601bdaade$a8976e40$bbf449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> OK- another quick question- what model(s) of Amigas would this be used on? also, if I can get a hold of one or some, would it be worth it? -Eric From: Captain Napalm > The Kickstart disks are essencially the first stage boot disks and load >the basic OS into memory. Later Amigas had most of this OS stored in ROMs >and the need for Kickstart disks went away. The Workbench disk is, for lack >of a better term, the desktop program (something like the Finder under >MacOS, or Explorer under Windows 9x). From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 8 20:11:12 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas >(for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic >things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > >Amiga Workbench v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.1 >Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.2 > >can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text >program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and >dump them someplace on the web. The Amiga disks you list above would be for the Amiga 1000, though the Workbench and Extra's copies can probably be used for the A500 or A2000 if they are running with 1.2 Kickstart ROMs. No idea on TV/Text, but it's probably software for use with a Genlock (a hardware device that let's you layer text over a video signal). There is a lot of software out there for the Amiga, the Aminet archive is currently up to 25 CD's with all different material on each CD. As for creating disk images and putting them on the net, I would advise against it, Amiga Inc. is actively looking for people doing just that, and prosecuting them. For people that need disk images for use in an Emulator, you can buy a legal product called "Amiga Forever" that includes legal copies of the ROMs and Workbench. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 8 20:31:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> References: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: >It was said to run RSX-11M and I gotta crack the manuals on that OS before >I get too close to the power switch. Anything I should know or do first >before I apply power? It's probably a good idea to check out the Power Supply prior to applying power with the boards in place. If you remove the board make careful notes as to their location. If you don't have the passwords for your RSX-11M distribution you will want to do a DejaNews search on how to bypass them as the system comes up. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Jul 9 01:55:25 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, John Foust wrote: > At 05:15 PM 6/29/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> > >> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? > > > >As far as I know, AOL used to be called AppleLink, which was an Apple > >online service. > > I don't remember if it mutated into AOL, but there once was a > service called QuantumLink that sold branded network services > such as AppleLink and AmigaLink and probably a few more "Links". This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: "Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for Commodore owners. This created a rather awkward situation when Commodore's contract renegotiations with CompuServe came up last summer. The two would, in effect, be competitors." . . . "Why a separate network for Commodore owners? The reason relates not only to providing a machine-specific service, but to the continued health of the whole industry, says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of marketing. 'In order to really expand the market for computers long term, we had to create a dramatically increased utility because it seemed to a lot of people that the computer penetration level has slowed down. Somebody had to create a whole bunch of new ideas why people should buy computers.'" . . . > - John Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From 0513307 at ptfe30.hro.nl Thu Jul 9 04:01:01 1998 From: 0513307 at ptfe30.hro.nl (SMIT) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VB4DOS Message-ID: <377BB5E450D@ptfe30.hro.nl> Hello, i am Michel Smit, I'm a VB5.0 programmer. Once there was a VB4DOS if i'm right. You should have a copy of it. Is it possible for me to recieve a copy of VB4DOS? My ICQ UIN: 3233370 My email: michel.smit@unforgettable.com Thanx already, Michel Smit. P.S. I have lots of software to trade with. From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Jul 9 03:06:07 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi all, I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy them? They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their price was $10 USD. -Dave From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 9 03:32:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? FWIW, one day I needed a new bubble. I tracked down the company (MemTech at http://www.memtech.com/) that bought Intel Magnetics, and asked them the price for a new 128K bubble. I think it was $300+. I'll take the bubbles if they're under $5 each. -- Doug From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 9 08:25:31 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980709082531.00bdbb60@pc> At 02:55 AM 7/9/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: > >"Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support >to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for >Commodore owners. [...] says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of >marketing. Wow, that's the guy. I didn't realize the link between QuantumLink and AOL. What I do remember is that their services were incredibly lame in terms of user interface, speed, national network, etc. compared to Compuserve. For a while, Commodore shifted at least its developer support to BIX, Byte's online service. A quick jump to www.bix.com shows it's still alive, run by Delphi. Hunt around in those issues from '87 to '90 or so, especially Compute's Amiga magazine or coverage, and you'll find articles I wrote. For a while, I had a by-lined monthly column there, with my picture and everything. When it first appeared, my fans were shocked to learn I was such a young guy. They thought I was an old portly man with a beard. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 9 08:50:06 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <19980709135006.28022.qmail@hotmail.com> Interesting, I would guess that's for video, not ethernet though. Was it the thick one with the round old-style led or the 'c' thin model? The reason why I ask is that I wonder what they could have fit inside... >They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC >jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their >price was $10 USD. >-Dave > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 9 09:03:13 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Were these mounted on pc type cards or loose? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > Hi all, > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave > > From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 9 11:22:17 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules Message-ID: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> As I told Tony Duell a day or two ago, I would list the modules residing in my 11/730. Point being to compare machines for completeness/options and to get feedback from list members to learn more about what both of us have exactly. I would like to fully restore this machine to it's original completeness although not necessarily its original options/configuration. I'm missing front/rear doors, some hardware, a few modules, misc. items and the all-important TU58 tape which has the bootup microcode(!). Hopefully a fellow who responded privately can find some docs and cabinet parts that he might have which will help for sure. I'll be looking for the rest though. The main problem I have found with the module list is that there are no references in the Field Guide for these particular 11/730 modules. Maybe because the Guide was for *only* Q-bus and UNIBUS modules and these don't fall into that classification *or* simply the info for these modules was not at hand when the FG was put together. I'm working on that now with a fellow who emailed me in reference to a more up-to-date FG. Any input from the group is welcome of course. Here's the list of modules, in order of slot number, in the 730 as I received it: 1. empty 2. empty 3. empty 4. M8390 (-B?) 5. empty 6. M8391 MCT 7. M8394 8. M8750-CP 9. M8750-CP 10. M8396 11. M8396 12. G7273 13. G7273 14. empty No expansion backplane is installed presently. I think it may have been taken out as there is reference on the module list printed on the CPU cover which shows a 9-slot DD11-DK Unibus Expander Backplane installed in the left side of the crate. I have not dug into either of the BA11 crates I have in the pile yet but would the 9-slot expansion backplanes in these actually be the DD11-DK? Is "DD11-DK" marked anywhere on them? The Ethernet cable is also hanging loose in the crate. Either a single board Ethernet I/F was in slot 14 or the 2-board DEUNA or equivalent was in two slotts of the DD11-DK expansion. For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: 1. "Not used" 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) 3. "Not used" 4. "M8390 DAP" 5. "Not used" 6. "M8391-YA or M8391 MCT" 7. "M8394 WCS" 8. "MS730-CA" 9. "MS730-CA" 10. "G7273/Memory" 11. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" 12. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" 13. "G7273/Unibus Option" 14. "M9202" (and) "G7273/Unibus Option" 1. "M9202" (bridge from slot 14, above) "G727" 2. "G727" | | (all 9 slots have G727's listed) | | 9. "M9302" (and) "G727" Hmmm, if I either have a DD11-DK in a BA11 or something around here or if I could find one amongst list members, then I could hang Unibus options off this machine :) Cool! Anyway, my guess is that I don't have too far to go to restore this box with help from folks here. Tony would benefit too regarding his own 730. And yes, I understand it is a true dog as to performance. But it was mentioned by Allison correctly that at least this is a "real iron" VAX which will fit in a room and power requirements are low enough to be rather tolerable. Recall I have a space problem here. I saw a picture and weight (1k+ lbs) of a 11/780. The wife would shoot me if I had one to keep out of that truckload . Thanks again for the help. Regards, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 9 12:56:02 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <9806099000.AA900032336@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in >> the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET >> manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... > > Don't thoes diagnostics need loopback connectors for the user port (links > things like video signals to the user port pins) and the keyboard > connector? They do indeed. I have a set somewhere. I was given them by another PET owner who had bought them but never used them, being afraid he'd damage the machine by so doing. I don't recall anything in the PET circuit diagrams etc that suggested you could damage the PET with these, but then again... Philip. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Jul 9 12:00:45 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980708125448.3a8f4730@ricochet.net> At 04:09 PM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make >out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. Check out which is "ACT Apricot computers" according to my bookmark file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From erd at infinet.com Thu Jul 9 12:09:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 9, 98 12:22:17 pm Message-ID: <199807091709.NAA15645@user2.infinet.com> > > For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment > says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: > > 1. "Not used" This is where the IDC (Integrated Disk Controller) goes, IIRC. It's the R80/RL02 controller board. > 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) Bingo. > 3. "Not used" Don't recall. > 4. "M8390 DAP" Data Path Module > 5. "Not used" Don't know. > 6. "M8391-YA or M8391 MCT" Memory Controller. > 7. "M8394 WCS" Writable Control Store - here is where the data from the tu58 ends up. > 8. "MS730-CA" > 9. "MS730-CA" 1Mb ECC RAM (each) > 10. "G7273/Memory" > 11. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" > 12. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" More RAM slots. "Not for Unibus" means it's a MUD slot (Modified Unibus Device). You can't plug a termninator or Unibus cable into them, and only some peripherals work here. At my former company, our COMBOARD I did not work in a MUD slot, but the COMBOARD II did (we used alternate pins to get the correct UNIBUS signals to the board). > 13. "G7273/Unibus Option" May or may not be a MUD slot. I forget. > 14. "M9202" (and) "G7273/Unibus Option" What ever you do, don't install the M9202 terminator in a higher slot than this. You need those G7273 Grant Cards in all the empty slots. Enjoy, -ethan P.S. - I *may* have a set of 11/730 prints in storage. I'm moving soon. I'll know in a bit. If I do, the biggest problem with copying them is access to an 11"x17" copier. I won't sell my only copy - I've got an 11/730 in storage, the same one I've mentioned before. From lfb107 at psu.edu Thu Jul 9 13:14:34 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <199807091813.OAA35236@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> >and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is >coming up) What happened to 4.0? Les From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Jul 9 15:24:27 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> Message-ID: <000701bdab77$92481f60$eac448c2@snoopy> > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of J. Buck Caldwell > If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just > threw out about 10 dead SDI drives > and have plenty of leftover cables. > It's a pity you aren't in the UK, I have 4 RA81/2 drives and only enough SDI cable to connect 2 to my MicroVAX at a time, and it is a pain dragging the cabinets out to swap them over. Regards Pete From buck_c at polygon.com Thu Jul 9 15:32:05 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <000701bdab77$92481f60$eac448c2@snoopy> Message-ID: <35A528C5.4DD5A821@polygon.com> Peter Joules wrote: > > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of J. Buck Caldwell > > If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just > > threw out about 10 dead SDI drives > > and have plenty of leftover cables. > > > It's a pity you aren't in the UK, I have 4 RA81/2 drives and only enough SDI > cable to connect 2 to my MicroVAX at a time, and it is a pain dragging the > cabinets out to swap them over. Suppose you aren't willing to pay for shipping across the pond? They're not too incredibly heavy, if you just want a pair or two. Admittedly, I have no clue whatsoever about how much it costs to ship overseas.Hell, for a moderate price, I'll throw in the two RA70s and three KDA50s. I'm kinda trying to get away from SDI... -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 9 12:08:00 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: <199807092109.RAA19341@smtp.interlog.com> > > > On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, John Foust wrote: > > > At 05:15 PM 6/29/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >> > > >> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? > > > > > >As far as I know, AOL used to be called AppleLink, which was an Apple > > >online service. > > > > I don't remember if it mutated into AOL, but there once was a > > service called QuantumLink that sold branded network services > > such as AppleLink and AmigaLink and probably a few more "Links". > > This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: > > "Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support > to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for > Commodore owners. This created a rather awkward situation when > Commodore's contract renegotiations with CompuServe came up last summer. > The two would, in effect, be competitors." > . > . > . > "Why a separate network for Commodore owners? The reason relates not > only to providing a machine-specific service, but to the continued health > of the whole industry, says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of > marketing. 'In order to really expand the market for computers long term, > we had to create a dramatically increased utility because it seemed to a > lot of people that the computer penetration level has slowed down. > Somebody had to create a whole bunch of new ideas why people should buy > computers.'" > > - John > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > A good example of corporate cannibalism. The little fish (Q-Link-which became AOL) swallows up the big fish (Compuserve). I've got several of the Q-Link disks. Glad I didn't toss them. They wouldn't work of course when I first tried them. It might be interesting to figure out what the underlying com program was. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:03:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 9, 98 12:22:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/1d74c794/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:14:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091709.NAA15645@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 9, 98 01:09:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1789 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/300d5042/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:16:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <9806099000.AA900032336@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 9, 98 05:56:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/2aaadab9/attachment.ksh From bsittler at nmt.edu Thu Jul 9 08:34:30 1998 From: bsittler at nmt.edu (Benjamin C. W. Sittler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Kaypro10 manuals needed Message-ID: <35A4C6E6.22F9AA3B@nmt.edu> First, get a book on CP/M (the operating system used by the Kaypro 10.) If you need more detailed technical information or have trouble finding a CP/M reference, send me e-mail. Essentially, the Kaypro10 is a 4MHz Z-80 based CP/M machine with a 400Kb floppy and a hard disk (I think.) It was often used for word processing, usually with MicroPro's WordStar. It has a *slow* modem, a serial port, and a parallel port. I'm working on compiling some information on the Kaypro so it can be emulated; once I do this, emulators may serve as "active documentation" for this fine but somewhat obsolete line of computers. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 9 20:02:06 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <199807091813.OAA35236@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: >>and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is >>coming up) > >What happened to 4.0? > >Les 3.5 was supposed to be the next release, it was announced as canceled at the WOA a couple months ago. 4.0 is supposed to be out in November, it will only run on Intel Hardware. Version 4 is intended to be the only version on Intel Hardware, and is only a release to be used as a developers platform, but from what I've heard do to feedback they recieved after the announcement, they will be selling developer systems through the normal channels to any one that wants them. The reason 4.0 will be on Intel is because that is the platform the necessary development tools are on. The interesting question is, what will the OS look like, and how are they going to get it out on time (popular bets are Linux and BeOS). 5.0 about two years. The rumour is that the hardware will be announced this weekend (a good chance tomorrow) at AmiWest98. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Jul 9 20:51:01 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 corrections References: <199807090702.AAA16761@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A57385.94546CBB@goldrush.com> > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > Subject: Re[2]: PET 2001 > >> Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my > >> father's bedroom at this hour. > > > > 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". 9", 8" the Commodore ads said 9" display... But of course there is only about 8" showing... reminds me of that class-action monitor suit, (Our agency will make $9 for the three monitors it bought a few years back, in 2000, I still have the refund cards.) > I agree with Pete, not that it makes much difference. > >> Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen > >> one. > > No. Never. 12 inch screen on 4032 (or possibly 4016) and above only. the 12" models used the new video display chip (and newer motherboard w/speaker) for which only 4.0 BASIC was coded, only the 4000 series. [snip] > First PETS: 2001-4 and 2001-8 (also called 4k PET and 8k PET). Blue trim, > blue-white phosphor, mangled and rebadged cassette (I can't remember whose) > that you open by lifting the lid. they were SANYO decks, no tape eject button, you had to lift the lid, I have two (one in the PET and one external!) > > Then: 2001-4 and 2001-8 get Black trim and C2N cassette deck Black C2N, custom case, no counter. Nice looking deck too, I called that design the 'brick' datasettes, the later cream 'brick' added a counter but they wern't as reliable as the black ones. The best are the (VIC/64 era) low-profile 1530s. Nice units! > > Then: Green screen. > > Next was the ROM upgrade. Usual models were 2001-8N, 2001-16N, 2001-32N, > 2001-8B, 2001-16B and 2001-32B. These had full-sized keyboards and external > C2N decks. In the UK, 2001-8N with tiny keyboard and built in C2N was > common. This was not a new motherboard in an old case - the case was a > different shape (slightly less tall). Larry has suggested that these might > be the 2001-8K, K standing for Calculator (-style keyboard) (sic). I got the 2001-8K from my Spring 1980 Commdoore Product Catalog, listed were: PET 2001-8K Integeral cassette, upgrade (they list as 3.0) ROMs PET 2001 Professional Computer (these were the N series, 8N, 16N, and 32N) graphics full-sized keyboard. CBM 2001 Business Computer (non-graphics keyboard, Upgade ROMs, etc.) listed as 16B and 32B CBM 8000 Business Computer (Available June 1980) 80 columns, 4.0 ROMs listed as 8016 and 8032 [snip] > >> PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged > > I've never heard of 2001NT. [snip] > > > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. > > Strange. Full size keyboard with graphics symbols should be 2001-8N Commodore was not a wasteful company (at least in the beginning,) maybe they used an older label?? I would not put it past em. > > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions > > Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit > later. Never saw a 3000 in my neck of the woods, though I did see pictures (like in the PET Personal Computer Guide, etc.) I think they were more abundant in Canada and the UK. > > > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > > with a 12" screen, [bzzz] Read above, the 8000 was the first 12" model. > > The 12" screen version was > > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). The difference between a 4000 and an 8000 is an extra k of screen RAM and the video startup code in one of the ROM chips. The 64k expansion board came later and was fully integrated lastly in the 8296 (mainly european release) > Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware > and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, > making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... > > > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > > upper- or lower-case. > > Was it? That's weird! Yep, darned annoying if you like the graphics symbols. The 4000/8000 series also extended the line height by a pixel or two (thanks to the new VDC) which left a gap between lines, can be gotten around by printing CHR$(142) -uppercase, no gaps- and then poking 59468,14 -set back to lower case-. It was a routine in the screen printing code doing it. I think three or four graphics symbols were readily unavailable, (you would have had to print them out with CHR$()s and then build your program lines around them) two of which I really liked to use, that PET (at school) did't get used much by me... (=P) > Take a couple of steps back and get a wider view: > > PET had two internal character codes. [clip alot of tech stuff] > > And that was the second problem. Later PETS swapped lower and upper > case letters. So now ASCII codes 65 and up, which still mapped onto > screen codes 1 and up, gave LOWER case letters, but you pressed SHIFT > for upper case. However the OS and BASIC (one and the same, really) > treated unshifted as letters, and shifted as meaningless graphics > characters, whichever mode you were in. > > Confused? It is, isn't it! One of the Original to Upgrade ROM fixes... You knew the programmer had an old ROM PET when the case in their text was inverted. > > >> ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. > > About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in > the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET > manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... I have it on a Commodore tape and the diagnostic tape too! > > >> I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts > > It says "COMMODORE BASIC 4.0" but I can't remember whether between *** or > ###. > *** COMMODORE BASIC *** Original ROM ### COMMODORE BASIC ### Upgrade ROM *** COMMODORE BASIC 4.0 *** 4.0 ROMs > >> Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them > >> whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) > > Indeed. Type WAIT 6502,100 and you get a screen full of MICROSOFT! > > There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade > > ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the > > disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but > > otherwise it's almost the same as 3. Short lived?? - it seemed to be around for a few years to me... > I have heard all sorts of numbering schemes for BASIC versions. The > only thing they agree on is 4. AFAIK, the BASIC in 3008 and friends was > identical to the upgrade ROMs that went in original PETs. I go by Original, Upgrade, small screen 4.0, and large screen 4.0, and 80 column 4.0. There were enough differences in the small and large screen 4.0 ROMs to keep some 4.0 games from working on large screen PETs. > > > Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. > > That clears up my mystery above. Thank you. [bzzzz] *** were used in 4.0 too, but at least they did add 4.0 to the message. > > >> It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that > >> operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 except for the british pound symbol which replaced the PET's back-slash (\) > >> and C64 the 64 set was 'pudgyier' to reduce video artifacting on TVs but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character > >> set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was > >> it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) > > Hope this clears up some misconceptions. and that is why I made the PET FAQ! ;) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Jul 9 23:13:25 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199807100410.XAA31114@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: dave dameron To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Intel bubble memory modules > Hi all, > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave Yes, let me know how much the bubble memory is. Thank you. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 01:35:12 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Commodore 64, was Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807100635.XAA08478@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 06:50 AM 7/9/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Interesting, I would guess that's for video, not ethernet though. Was it >the thick one with the round old-style led or the 'c' thin model? >The reason why I ask is that I wonder what they could have fit inside... > >>They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC >>jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. >Their >>price was $10 USD. >>-Dave >> From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 01:35:15 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807100635.XAA08499@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 03:32 AM 7/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory >> modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy >> them? > >FWIW, one day I needed a new bubble. I tracked down the company (MemTech >at http://www.memtech.com/) that bought Intel Magnetics, and asked them >the price for a new 128K bubble. I think it was $300+. I'll take the >bubbles if they're under $5 each. > I went back, and could find only one! It was loose in a box of some small AC power socket modules, could not find anything that it came out of. The price was $4 +tax. It is an Intel Magnetics 7110-1 with a date code (I guess) of 8204. There is a string of 80 Hex characters printed on it, mostly "F", a 320 bit error map of some kind? I will let you know if I find any more. I plan to go back to look more anyway, there also appeared to be a cabinet with a 8 inch floppy drive in it (horizontal). I couldn't really get at it to examine it closely. (There was a bunch of bad UPS's around and on top of it). -Dave From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 10 02:15:23 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: New Acquisitions, H8 Question References: <199807100410.XAA31114@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <35A5BF8B.EFBFD72B@rain.org> One of my favorite activities is checking out swapmeets, swapfests, etc. Because a number of people know about my addiction and are willing to help out, I just picked up the following for about $125: 2 - Model 100's w/ cassette recorder, cases, manuals, etc. 1 - HP 85 w/ 128K Ram Pack and Plotter Rom (one more left I didn't take) 1 - Mac Portable (works but dead HD) 1 - Tandy 1400 portable 1 - Kaypro ? w/case 1 - Heathkit H?? (like the Z89) 1 - Heathkit Dual Floppy 1 - Heathkit H-8 w/ H17 dual Floppy Drive When I took a look at the H8, it turned out to have a D-G Electronic Development CPU and memory card. I haven't taken the time yet to check out the other cards to see if they are Heathkit or other 2nd source cards. Besides the floppy controller, there are two cards marked H8-4 and H8-5. The H8-4 is a multi I/O card, and I have no idea what the H8-5 is yet except that it has what appear to be audio cables coming from the card. I am not familiar with D-G Electronic Development and am looking for more information about them. Unfortunately, no documentation came with the units BUT I will be trying to find out where they came from and see if the people who donated them have anything else that might go with the computers. While I won't be doing much with them at this time, I would appreciate any information on those D-G cards. Thanks! From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Jul 10 06:44:44 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: New Acquisitions, H8 Question Message-ID: <00bd01bdabf8$41e1d440$a027a2ce@cgregory> >1 - Heathkit H?? (like the Z89) No doubt an H88. Generally there will be a Heathkit sticker on the back with the model number. The Heathkit 88 and Zenith 89 are virtually the same machine with differing name plates. >there are two cards marked H8-4 >and H8-5. The H8-4 is a multi I/O card, and I have no idea what the H8-5 >is yet except that it has what appear to be audio cables coming from the >card. The H8-5 is a serial I/O and cassette interface card. I have the complete documentation including the assembly instructions. From the Introduction: "Your Heathkit Model H8-5 Serial I/O and Cassette Interface Card provides you with two input/output ports to the Heath H8 Computer. One port provides a cassette tape interface while the other port provides a serial I/O port.... The Cassette tape interface, along with the H8 front panel monitor, provides you with a fully automated Load and Dunp facility. This greatly increases the system's usefulness by enabling you to store programs and data for later use. The interface will automatically compensate for variations in tape speed and will accept a wide range of input levels. Both high and low level outputs are provided to match any tape unit you wish to use.... The serial I/O port normally operates with the system console. It provides serial communications at speeds from 110 to 9600 Baud at either 20 mA or RS-232 compatible levels...." >1 - Heathkit Dual Floppy >1 - Heathkit H-8 w/ H17 dual Floppy Drive I you ever wish to part with either, let me know. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 09:42:33 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A528C5.4DD5A821@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 9, 98 03:32:05 pm Message-ID: <199807101442.KAA01045@user2.infinet.com> > > you aren't willing to pay for shipping across the pond? They're not too > incredibly heavy, if you just want a pair or two. Admittedly, I have no > clue whatsoever about how much it costs to ship overseas. I've done it. $5 to $15 per pound ($11 to $33 per kilo) is the ordinary range, depending on sea/air and continent. Contrast this with UPS rates of *approximately* $1 to $2 per pound for ground service. > Hell, for a moderate price, I'll throw in the two RA70s and three KDA50s. > I'm kinda trying to get away from SDI... If you don't get any international takers, I'm interested in cheap SDI hardware. I'd love to get away from it, but I have only 1 SCSI board for all my VAXen/PDP-11's (a CS-21 with *no* docs), but several SDI interfaces (UDA-50 and KDB50 - I have a VAX 8300). My current main disk is a third- party SDI/ESDI box with two 1.2G 5.25" ESDI drives inside. My current backup/reserve disk is an RA-81. As you can imagine, I hate powering that one on. I would love a KDA-50 and RA70 - it would go so nicely in my BA123. I'm in Ohio; I could probably arrange for a pickup. I have a housemate who is originally from St. Louis. We go back there several times per year. -ethan P.S. while I'm here, I'll ask is anyone has any docs on a CS-21 Qbus SCSI interface. It has a logo which I think is Systems Industries (a stylized double-S). I could even use a jumper list. I'm about to get out the Qbus manual and the voltmeter to match up jumpers with address bits. From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 09:52:02 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101453.KAA19648@charity.harvard.net> I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all probably heard this before but does anyone know where I should start. I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but fear I will not. Help! Thanks, Tony Dellett anthony.dellett@staples.com From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 09:49:30 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 9, 98 07:14:49 pm Message-ID: <199807101449.KAA01197@user2.infinet.com> > AFAIK all DEC unibus peripheral controllers work here. There *might* be an ancient SPC that doesn't, but yes, all DEC cards I've ever seen work in a MUD slot. > Here's what's going on. > > On an original Unibus slot, connectors A,B were either Unibus In/Out... > > C-F were not changed AFAIK on any slots. AFAIK, that is all correct. > On a MUD slot, there were memory signals on connectors A,B. Originally > these were just the Unibus address and data lines, wired almost the same > as a Unibus In or Out connector. However some grounded pins on the Unibus > connector were assigned to extra power lines (battery backed, etc) on the > MUD slot, so plugging a terminator or Unibus cable into an MUD slot > shorts out the PSU. Bad idea. Right. Some bozo vendor shipped me a 11/725 (11/730 CPU, different case) with no grant cards and the terminator in a MUD slot. Stupid me turned on the power without checking the cards. Stupid vendor did replace the PSU. > For this reason no peripheral card should ever do anything but take power > from A and B unless you know exactly what you are doing. True, but that third-party board I used to make was designed by Real Engineers (tm). They just *knew* that the Unibus signals were on A and B and didn't worry about those C and D fingers. You should see the mod to make that board work in a MUD slot - bunches of wires. > > What ever you do, don't install the M9202 terminator in a higher slot than > > THe M9202 is a bus jumper, isn't it? The terminator is the M9302. Doh! You are correct. And the M9312 should be the boot strap/terminator for the 11/34 etc, IIRC. -ethan From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:59:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <19980710145958.19523.qmail@hotmail.com> From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 10:00:24 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: References: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> At 19:03 09-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: --snip-- >> 14. empty > >Unibus output (you need a terminator and grant card here.) > >> >> No expansion backplane is installed presently. I think it may have been >> taken out as there is reference on the module list printed on the CPU cover >> which shows a 9-slot DD11-DK Unibus Expander Backplane installed in the >> left side of the crate. > >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something different in a VAX 11/730. Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my 730. The 780 is also shown on the right. It's cabinet dimensions are about the same as the 40" mass storage unit cabinets and the 11/34A cabinet I have. Interesting that the introduction dates show the 730 is fairly recent vs. the 780. 1982 vs. 1977. > >> >> I have not dug into either of the BA11 crates I have in the pile yet but >> would the 9-slot expansion backplanes in these actually be the DD11-DK? Is >> "DD11-DK" marked anywhere on them? > > >Could be. There's a label on the side of the backplane that says 'DD11-DK', >you hope ;-). Some 9-slot backplanes were custom wired for particular >options, like RH11s or RK611s. DD11-DKs are just plain Unibus (SPC) >backplanes Found a DD11-DK in an empty 10.5" BA11 crate. I think I recall seeing a DD11 printset in the pile of docs () so I'll check if it is "standard" as in "not modified". The modification sticker has an "E", I think, marked in a box. > > >> For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment >> says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: >> >> 1. "Not used" >> 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) > >Yep, floating point board. > >> 1. "M9202" (bridge from slot 14, above) "G727" > >M9202 = Unibus jumper? Yep. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 10:23:03 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 11:00:24 am Message-ID: <199807101523.LAA01798@user2.infinet.com> > >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with > >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards > >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. Mine too. I think it is officially called a 11/730Z > 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something > different in a VAX 11/730. > > Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: > > > http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html > > It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my > 730. I wish I could get Japanese support working for Netscape 4.03 under X on my Solaris box. :-( I saw the picture. I have never seen that model of 11/730 up close. It looks kind of like a miniature 11/750. I would suppose that there is a BA-11 inside with a 11/730 backplane and some DD-11DK's, no? If you forego the IDC for Unibus disks, yours looks like a nicer design. Perhaps that's what they did for later units. The cabling on the older 11/730's is a nightmare to install (a co-worker did the one I have), but once in place, it's OK. I'm guessing that the in-cabinet cabling for your 11/730 is like the 11/24 or 8200 - a pile of cables snaking through some strain relief bars, ending in a wall of I/O plates. Can you put any additional stuff in that cabinet, or is it all cable run? -ethan From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Jul 10 12:32:11 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <9806109001.AA900117296@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? The only info I can find is in a couple of glossy brochures from IBM. One is about the 9370, the other about the 3090 series. Respectively, IBM Virtual Machine/System Product (VM/SP) This is a multi-user, multi-processing operating system for interactive processing. It provides productivity tools for commercial and engineering/scientific environments, decision support and program development. With its connectivity enhancements, this system is particularly suited for remote sites that have little or no programming staff. and Simple end-user interaction with VM The VM/XA Systems Facility and the VM/SP High Performance Option both provide a virtual machine environment. Together with the Conversational Monitor System (CMS), they permit each end-user to access the IBM 3090 system independently, with the perception that he or she is the sole user. Communicating with the IBM 3090 via VM/CMS, Vector Vacility users can develop, test and execute vectorised applications online, using a comprehensive range of IBM Assembler and FORTRAN compilers, libraries and productivity tools. VM also provides guest System Control Program (SCP) support, not only for other IBM SCPs but also for IX/370, IBM's implementation of UNIX. Sorry I can't be of further help. Philip. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 10 11:50:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101650.AA21772@world.std.com> $>Set mode/device=tongue/position=incheek < I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all < probably heard this before but does anyone know where I should start. < I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but Desperate? I know people desperate for heart transplants or hardware to keep their old maching going because it runs their business but, really! ;-) Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for homes and also noteworthy! Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 12:27:01 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101727.NAA05242@charity.harvard.net> Oh, I'd really love to get my hands on some old Cromemco and Northstar equipment too but the IMSAI is like a labor of love :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 12:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Looking for... > > > > $>Set mode/device=tongue/position=incheek > > < I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all > < probably heard this before but does anyone know where I > should start. > < I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but > > Desperate? I know people desperate for heart transplants or hardware > to keep their old maching going because it runs their business but, > really! ;-) > > Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for > homes and > also noteworthy! > > > Allison > From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Jul 10 12:20:51 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a list, but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what I have in case someone needs something. Here it goes... 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two 84-pin PLCC chips with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. Recognizable chips include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone identify this? 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, 14411 chips and a proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this one. The MOS-labeled ones have 1976-dated ceramic chips. 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue and regulator chips. 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), Embedded Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor Program Listing). -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, Smay & Triska 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I know saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club listings, a personal microwave communications system, various Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test Program, RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, F, and J). My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my goodies. That'll take a while, though. Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Jul 10 12:38:11 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! In-Reply-To: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: Greetings Richard, Any chance of obtaining one of the remaining Kim-1's or the Aim documentation? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Jul 10 13:38:51 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <01IZ8FVVJBEABMA5D9@cc.usu.edu> > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? Offhand, it sounds like a DECmate, probably a III. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 12:50:31 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <199807101753.NAA07361@charity.harvard.net> What are the chances of getting one of the sets of 11/34 docs? I got one of these and a set of docs would just rock! Thanks Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. [mailto:rcini@email.msn.com] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 1:21 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! > > > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to > rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate > to post a list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone > to know what I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC > 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, > DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C > (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, > 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need > data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 > slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook > (83), Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be > full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, > Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer > Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 > computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, > Monitor Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, > and Camp, Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before > the guy I know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get > this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is > that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. > Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, > Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, > General Test Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, > ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, > RK05 (regular, F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line > database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 13:11:56 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101523.LAA01798@user2.infinet.com> References: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807101814.SAA04919@cyber2.servtech.com> At 11:23 10-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with >> >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards >> >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. > >Mine too. I think it is officially called a 11/730Z The model designation of mine is 11/750-CA. Do either of these model numbers mean anything to anybody out there? > >> 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something >> different in a VAX 11/730. >> >> Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: >> >> >> http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html >> >> It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my >> 730. > >I wish I could get Japanese support working for Netscape 4.03 under X on Me too, but I don't know Japanese! >my Solaris box. :-( I saw the picture. I have never seen that model >of 11/730 up close. It looks kind of like a miniature 11/750. I would That is a good way to describe it. It's the same height as the 750 setting next to it, only narrow like the cabinets that RL's, TU80s, etc. can reside in. >suppose that there is a BA-11 inside with a 11/730 backplane and some >DD-11DK's, no? If you forego the IDC for Unibus disks, yours looks like Yes. Only one DD11-DK is called out (see earlier mention of this fact in the first msg of this thread.) >a nicer design. Perhaps that's what they did for later units. The A couple of dates inside the unit place mine around middle of 1984. BTW I'm still looking for a front and back door for this machine. Now that anybody can see a picture in that Japanese DEC site, that's the box I'm refering to. >cabling on the older 11/730's is a nightmare to install (a co-worker >did the one I have), but once in place, it's OK. I'm guessing that the >in-cabinet cabling for your 11/730 is like the 11/24 or 8200 - a pile >of cables snaking through some strain relief bars, ending in a wall of Yes, I even have a 11/24 setting nearby to compare it with too. Too bad I cannot keep either the 750 or /24. No room, dang it! BTW: the /24's cabinet is the same height and width as the 750. >I/O plates. Can you put any additional stuff in that cabinet, or is >it all cable run? I think I can install another unit like an RL or tape drive. Have to check depth first. That's the major part of my idea to try to make a working system in the smallest footprint. I know the TS03 tape unit will fit since it's not too deep. The various controller modules for the TS11 drive control would fit into the DD11-DK backplane. Hmmm, if I can find a SCSI module or something I wonder if a more modern SCSI hard drive and tape unit (as in the types used in the PC world) could be installed??? How about a TK50 tape and an RD-something HDD? Anything w/larger capacity than TK50 in that physical size? (I must find a good primer for the more modern and smaller DEC HDD and tape units. Any pointers?) Anyway, that arrangement would be small enough to mount into a 5.25" high 19" rack drawer with a PSU and fit inside the cabinet nicely underneath the 730's BA11 crate. This would make a single cabinet machine with the smallest footprint possible! Yeah! I'm hep! Anybody have any ideas? > >-ethan > I recall seeing mentioned somewhere a URL from Finland that has info and archives for MicroVAXen. Anybody know of that and could pass the URL on to me (and the list)? Thanks for the help! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 13:37:51 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? Message-ID: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> In looking at the RK07 and RL01/02 drives that I have from the Great Haul, the connectors and cables look rather similar. In the 11/34A I am keeping, there is a five-board set which is the RK611 controller. The previous owner had RK07's hung off this controller. I want to use at least one RL02 in the system as most of the disk packs with the important s/w are RL01/02. Anybody know if the RLs will work off the RK611 controller? (This is one of those dumb newbie questions!) If it won't work, anybody have a spare RL11 controller module (M7762) they'll let go? There's a heap of RL's (7) in the stuff I got but the only machine in the whole pile that has an RL11 is the 11/24 which is not going to be kept by me. What would the cable run limits be on either the RL11 or RK611 systems? As someone had told me a bit earlier about SDI systems, only ODD number of cables must be used. Any such limitation here? Thanks for your input! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Jul 10 14:46:02 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? In-Reply-To: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 02:37:51 pm Message-ID: <199807101946.PAA14893@shell.monmouth.com> > > In looking at the RK07 and RL01/02 drives that I have from the Great Haul, > the connectors and cables look rather similar. > Yup, the connectors are the same, but the number of pins used and signals are totally different. The RL's need the RL11 controller and the RK's the RK611. They don't mix. Bill From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:47:59 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen Message-ID: <19980710194759.16418.qmail@hotmail.com> Today, I saw a peculiar-looking all-plastic computer that was labelled "Heath Computer Systems". Is this the Heathkit kit XT? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:56:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my theory about > > the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think might be for the video > > actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. > > A 5 pin DIN plug will mate with a 7 or 8 pin socket (!). Just what you > need to cause problems IMHO. > > Which way round do you think the connectors are? I think it's the 5-pin connector for the power, and the 8-pin connector for the video. Which sounds safe. :) I'll try to trace the pins as you suggested in another post, Tony, and get back later. But I don't have an oscilloscope or logic analyser to help figure out the video signal. Which makes me regret not picking up those old oscilloscopes that I saw at a garage sale last year, only a couple of miles from here. :/ > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 10 14:59:46 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen In-Reply-To: <19980710194759.16418.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Today, I saw a peculiar-looking all-plastic computer that was labelled > "Heath Computer Systems". Is this the Heathkit kit XT? Could you elaborate on "peculiar" (and what is a Heathkit kit XT?). I have a peculiar-looking plastic computer from Heathkit called the ET-3400, but it couldn't possibly be confused with an XT. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:44:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > I don't have any kind of parts catalogue, but someone here might. Some > > Yep, in my brain... How wonderful it must be, to have a brain. ;) > > P8253-5 (24-pin); Intel P8259A (28-pin); Intel D8288 (20-pin); two times > > 8253 is a counter/timer, probably used for a heartbeat or a real time clock > 8288 = 8086/8088 bus controller IC. I'm suprised there's not an 8284 > clock chip near it as well. Nope, no 8284 that I could locate, but chip size would affect my ability to easily spot it. I more careful inspection of the motherboard has revealed a few smaller chips that don't have "74" on thier labels. :) There's a 16-pin chip with "CD4050AE/RCA 227" stamped on it. There are also six chips that sit on their sides, with 10 pins, marked "MSP10C01-472G/DALE", and a few other minor parts. > > HN482732AG-30 (EPROM, 24-pin, in 28-pin socket); D3-6402-9 (40-pin); > > 2732 = 4K*8 EPROM. Sounds like 4K words of BIOS > 6402 _may_ be the standard 6402 UART chip. That's got 40 pins. Cool! The 6402 is located closer to the parallel port than the serial port, though. > > AM8255APC/P8255A (40-pin); SCN2661C/C1N28E/CP28028 (28-pin). The rest is > > 8255 = 24 line parallel I/O chip. It lives directly between the parallel port and the 6402, so parallel I/O it must indeed be. > A dogsbody sort of I/O chip. The IBM PC > uses one for the DIP switches, keyboard, sound control, etc... There's a set of four switches right next to the 8255, and the keyboard connector isn't too far away. > 2661 is a fancy-ish serial chip. I'll have to grab the data book to find > out more ... It lives beside the serial port. > > The board with the funny cable connectors is labeled "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD" > > and "9245 - R0M0". The only interesting IC is a 40-pin chip labeled "WANG > > 2001/377-0508/IMP 03 8402BCA". The rest is TTL. > > Some sort of ASIC for that strange Wang interface? It appears to be true. > > are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a > > RAM, I think. Possibly video RAM. Cool! So the vide must indeed be on the emulator board. Which makes me wonder what the Wang is able to do without one of those boards. The IBM Mono Emulator board looks to have been manufactured about a year and a half later than the motherboard. I never did get around to hooking something up to the machine's serial port last week. Other things came up and sucked away the time. > > 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. > > 6845 CRT controller (basically the timing chain for the video section). > > Is there another 24 pin chip (EPROM or ROM) on this board as a character > generator? I would have expected one. Unless one of the 5565s is used for > that and loaded from disk or something. No 24 pin chips at all. So does the Wang have redefinable characters? Maybe I can port some VIC-20 games to it. :) > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:02:44 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807031806.OAA23051@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > Yes a reality, and a nic name I got from some friends. Then congrats on the Wang repair! Loss of eyesight is probably my greatest fear. > I used it mostly to write messages on from calls ect, I would leave it on > all day, and get some help later on some one would read it back to me so I > could braille it out. What did you do when there was a power failure? :) > The drive was ten MB and had Wang dos on it and the word prosser was also > on it. > The monotor was a Wang monotor, I don't know if they are still available. Unlikely. Which is one reason I'm so peeved at the Salvation Army store for tossing all of those old monitors and terminals. > This Wang I had was baught at a flee market, a fellow had 20 or 30 of them > he was selling complete for $25 about ten years ago. Sounds like a good deal! > A friend saw it and snagged one for me he knew I was interested in > computers, and thought it would make a interesting birthday present for me. > I sold it eventually because I couldn't het a sinthasiser that would work > in the card slots, they worent ISA or any thing like that, not sure what > they wore. Some proprietary Wang bus, I presume. It's got 86 pins, at 0.125" spacing. > Pete > Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 15:57:52 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: <199807101650.AA21772@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 10, 98 12:50:17 pm Message-ID: <199807102057.QAA08126@user2.infinet.com> > Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for homes and > also noteworthy! > > Allison I gave away a couple of 68K S100 boxes to a friend a couple of years ago. Since then, I've gotten that Z80 Starter Kit with the S100 connectors. What sorts of boards might I be able to find for which there is Z80 code? Could I find/build a floppy controller and get some sort of CP/M BIOS ROM and turn it into a CP/M machine? I guess I'd need a serial port for a console, at least a 5.25" controller, and BIOS source (with a cross assembler). Anything else? Is 32K reasonable for CP/M, or should I go for 48K? The only copy I happen to have, BTW, is an original CP/M distribution disk for the Commodore 128. Will that be adequate, or should I dig for something more generic? Thanks, -ethan From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 10 16:40:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807102140.AA00955@world.std.com> Ethan, The z80 believe it or not is still in production and has to be one of the most common 8 bitters along with the 6502. It also has one of the bigger resources for tools, code, and knowledge around. < I gave away a couple of 68K S100 boxes to a friend a couple of years ago. < Since then, I've gotten that Z80 Starter Kit with the S100 connectors. Wh < sorts of boards might I be able to find for which there is Z80 code? Coul Unlike PCs the z80 world doesn't really revolve so closely around boards or one vendors word of how the OS is implemented. So... it sorta makes the question open ended. < I find/build a floppy controller and get some sort of CP/M BIOS ROM and < turn it into a CP/M machine? I guess I'd need a serial port for a console Getting a bios rom would be near impossible, as most cpm systems did not do rom bios like PCs do! The bios was loaded at boot time. the loader was a minimal chunk of code (as small or smller than 128 bytes) that loaded the bios which then loaded the rest of the OS. That made the bios very changable as the users discression. Writing your own bios and putting it an eprom(or EEprom) is very doable. The book you need (or the chapter in) is the CP/M alteration guide. that can be found at the site listed. Finding more boards (assuming S100) is also not that hard. there are people here that can help right here on classiccmp. One development platform is to get MYZ80(it's on the web at the SIMTEL site) a z80 and CP/M emulator that runs on 386 or higher dos(or win 3.x, maybe w95) platforms. With that on your PC you can surf the web for tools and apps needed to run languages, assemblers, debuggers and what have you to develop code. < at least a 5.25" controller, and BIOS source (with a cross assembler). Any disk size/format you may want is doable from old single density 8" to IDE or SCSI. You might find hardware for any or all, but 5.25/8" was common. FYI: if your writing the code, most 8" double density controllers with 765 or the more commonly used in that time frame WD179x can also do 3.5" formats. < Anything else? Is 32K reasonable for CP/M, or should I go for 48K? The For CP/M 32 is the minimum to do useful work even though you can run the assembler and debuggers in 20k. A good system is 48 or better 56k with some setup to switch out the eprom to get access to all 64k. < only copy I happen to have, BTW, is an original CP/M distribution disk < for the Commodore 128. Will that be adequate, or should I dig for somethi < more generic? The C128 is furthest from generic IMHO, but if you have a c128 it's a good place to start as a development platform. FYI with notable exceptions CPM (primary componenets are CCP, BDOS and BIOS) is generic for all 8080/8085 and z80 system and only the bios code is different as that's where all the IO work is done for terminals and disks. There is a CP/M website on the net where you can get binaries or even sources as well as manuals. I'd look here if I were you: Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm Applications, look at the FTP site at OAKLAND.EDU and SIMTEL, I'd guess there are 20-30,000 programs out there and most with sources. Good luck, Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 17:09:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen Message-ID: <19980710220929.11893.qmail@hotmail.com> It just looked odd. It was like a regular PC case but smaller. It was two shallow plastic tubs. At front, all there was was two 1/2 height 5.25" drives. The whole thing was about as tall as 1 full height. In the back, it had the standard MB connectors (RS-232, Parallel), composite RF, and a 9-pin video (I don't recall what type). It had one horizontal expansion slot with the little cover missing. I peeked inside but couldn't see the ISA connector. >Could you elaborate on "peculiar" (and what is a Heathkit kit XT?). I >have a peculiar-looking plastic computer from Heathkit called the ET-3400, >but it couldn't possibly be confused with an XT. > >-- Doug > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Fri Jul 10 17:44:29 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules Message-ID: <199807102244.AAA06392@IAEhv.nl> On 1998-07-10 Chris said: cl>I recall seeing mentioned somewhere a URL from Finland that has cl>info and archives for MicroVAXen. Anybody know of that and could cl>pass the URL on to me (and the list)? Please take a look ar http://vaxarchive.ml.org, a site I am building to be filled with VAX (and maybe PDP) info. Some data and a lot of links are already there. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 10 20:34:03 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Finds Message-ID: <020f01bdac6b$fd8d0e80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi, Great day today, I found: Zenith ZT1, aparently it is a phone terminal and has the manual to connect to compuserve. Is it also useable as a computer? I have the manual but it's burried at the moment. HP 97 brand new in the box and it seems to be working fine. I'm charging the battery right now to check it. Standard pack and business decision pack plus a bag of programming sheets Text editing, math, Visicalc Plus and owners manuals for the HP85 HP thermal printer with HPIL interface (HP 82162A) what is that for? is it tfor the HP 75? HP82901M Dual 5.25" flexible disk drive with HPIB interface. I believe it is for the HP85 Box of five blank tapes for the HP 85 HP110 laptop computer (8086 or so) with MS-DOS 2.0 in ROM With manual and lotus 123 complete. 2 HP9114 3.5" disk drives for the HP 110 with manual charger and HPIL cables HP 2225A Think jet with HPIL interface for the HP 110 On the sad side I had to pass on an Original MAC M0001, a MAC SE, SE/30 the HP 85 (already have 2) a box of thermal paper for the HP85, a commodore calculator and loads of softwares for the HP 85 and 150 series and a bunch of unrecognized boxes (probably compatibles) I'm really thinking about going back tomorrow If I can get the OK from above:) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 10 20:57:54 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: C64 w/ BNCs References: <199807100702.AAA26131@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A6C6A1.8946D109@goldrush.com> > From: dave dameron > Subject: Intel bubble memory modules > [snip!] > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave My first thought for the 2 BNCs would be a Stereo SID (sound chip) modification. That is a popular hardware mod that adds a second SID sythesizer chip to the 64 so you can have 2 channel, 6 voice stereo. There are a few music writer programs and players and a game or two that support it. Usually the mod has RCA type jacks though... Pretty cool if you like the 64 sound output (which is really good for an 8-bitter). -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:04:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 10, 98 06:44:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3371 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/8dba93fa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:10:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 10, 98 06:56:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/20b45333/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:57:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101449.KAA01197@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 10, 98 10:49:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/e4804988/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 20:02:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? In-Reply-To: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 02:37:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/b159fbb6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 20:07:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 11:00:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 984 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/f9a681a5/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 10 21:39:35 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980710213935.006a33a0@pop3.concentric.net> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much time and money on ebay. The following is ashort list as the number of books, manuals, hats, and other computer related items is too large to list it all here. 1) Mac Color Classic not 10 years yet but a must have for my collection of Mac's (I'm going for 103 different models '84 to '94) 2) New unopened Sun Interactive UNIX software from Half price books 24.95 3) TRS80 4/4P manual set 4) Atari Portfolio complete with case, 128k module, two sofeware packages, serial cable and unit, manuals, and product sheets. It works great. 5) Newton fax modem 6) Sharp PC-7000 lunchbox style computer 7) Victor VPC11 model 2601-1 8) Eagle PC model PC-2 9) Cordata model PC-400-25 10) Covalent 2086 CPU Shop System a full tower unit not tested yet 11) Some Atari 400/800 cassette software all new in boxes from .60 to 1.60 each 12) Several boxes of new software for the Apple IIgs 13) Atari SC1224 monitor .80 14) Atari FD drives models SF354 (single) and SF314 (double) 15) Apple IIc power supply not tested 16) Several Atari power supplies 17) Ashton-tate Step IV Ward software and manual 18) HP 9133H 19) HP 9122 model D 20) Perkin-Elmer 7700 Professional computer and KB no monitor 21) HP 9130A 22) HP 2671G printer 23) Lexas Turbo 2400 mini modem 24) 8-Mac Plus KB's will be trading some of these 25) 6-Mac 128k KB'S 26) 10-2600 cartridges 27) TI Terminal Emulator II module That's all for now will list some of the other items later. Keep computing John From DGoodwin at smcvt.edu Fri Jul 10 22:28:29 1998 From: DGoodwin at smcvt.edu (Dave Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <455BFB014181D1119BCB00805F578DF00224EB34@shadow.smcvt.edu> Any chance of getting a KIM? Dave > ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr.[SMTP:rcini@email.msn.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: July 10, 1998 1:20 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! > > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a > list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what > I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has > two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), > Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor > Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, > Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I > know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test > Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, > F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980710/7f7813b9/attachment.html From poesie at geocities.com Fri Jul 10 22:50:10 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things as well. any info appreciated. thanks! -Eric From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Jul 11 01:17:17 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, The Adept wrote: > The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with > an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do > 3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise > channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new > chip revision. I don't think any voices were dropped from the SID, it always had three music voices plus white noise. The problem was that Commodore 'fixed' a 'bug' (aka feature) in the SID chip. This 'bug' had been used to play digitized sound samples. IIRC. > Dan Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 10 23:42:19 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: > I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this >is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight >68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and >just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the >same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to >several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things >as well. any info appreciated. thanks! > >-Eric It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. However, can't you add an FPU to the Performa? I seem to remember that you can do such things, but... Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 02:31:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard drives? I recently had two hard drives go south on me. One was my 2.5" IDE in my laptop...scary considering it had all my notes, memos and source code. The other was a 3.5" IDE on the voicemail system in the office. The laptop was a physical crash; the voicemail was a soft crash (directory got over-written somehow). I took the hard drives to a data recovery shop (Data Recovery Group in San Leandro for the locals). They have complete clean room and repair facilities. The data recovery technician, Yongin, opened up the 2.5" HD in the clean room and found the head had gone bad. He assembled a new head onto the drive but it wasn't repairable: it was a temporary fix to get the data off. He then proceeded to extract all the directories I told him were the most critical. Over all he said he was able to read about 60% of the 1.2GB drive. The other drive he found had a bad root directory, apparently having been over-written with random data (I suspect a virus). They basically used Norton Utilities on that to locate the lost directories and re-link them. They were able to recover the entire drive contents. What I wanted to discuss is the possibility of doing home drive repair without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room air and be worked on without introducing dangerous dust particles onto the platter? Figuring out the data on the drive is the easy part, compared with actually trying to read the data off the platter, whether the problem be a failed head or a crashed head. Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the platter. If anyone would like to continue this discussion, please reply to me privately. Thanks! BTW, the above drive repair cost $1,490 total. Not only is the job challenging and fun, but highly lucrative. Back that data up! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 02:36:56 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980710213935.006a33a0@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) > time and money on ebay. The following is ashort list as the number of eBay will do you in every time. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 06:57:30 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <199807111157.EAA25250@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's >my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. There's also the program 'SoftFPU' (or something like that) which emulates an FPU. Slow, but it works. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From poesie at geocities.com Sat Jul 11 07:40:44 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <000e01bdacc9$20383380$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Well, the cpu on this mac is socketed, i *could* just pop it out- in fact it resembles an intel type chip very much. that's what really piqued my interest. -Eric From: Zane H. Healy Subject: Re: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? >>just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the >>same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to >>several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things >>as well. any info appreciated. thanks! >> >>-Eric > >It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's >my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. > >However, can't you add an FPU to the Performa? I seem to remember that you >can do such things, but... From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 07:45:15 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much > >Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I blame it on you:) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 11 08:33:18 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 10, 98 10:50:10 pm Message-ID: <199807111333.JAA15416@user2.infinet.com> Eric writes: > ...a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight > 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and > just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the > same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to > several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things > as well. any info appreciated. thanks! I can's speak for the Mac, but I did upgrade the 68EC030 (no MMU) to a full 68030 on my Amiga 4000/030. It has a daughter card with the CPU and FPU that snaps into a so-called "Fast" slot. I removed the old chip (QFP) and soldered on the new one. I do not receommend it unless you have extensive SMT experience. It does, however, work. The reason I can't say whether it will work for a Mac is that Apple is picky. The Toolbox ROMs *might* expect certain things from certain models of CPU, and freak out if the wrong processor is installed. I just don't know enough about Mac firmware to say. The hardware, OTOH, will be fine. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 11 08:38:50 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 11, 98 01:10:38 am Message-ID: <199807111338.JAA15476@user2.infinet.com> > A 'scope, though is worth getting. An old, valved Tektronix is still a > good instrument, and you can get them for <$50 in the UK. I've got a valved Tek, a 314, IIRC. It has a round display, not square. I bought it at an auction five years ago at EG&G (a defense contractor). The scope has an Atomic Energy Commission inventory sticker on it, probably the coolest thing about it. -ethan From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 08:50:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980711135021.11892.qmail@hotmail.com> [snip] of doing home drive repair >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 08:57:31 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711085731.006a3248@pop3.concentric.net> I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). Now since I've got the 1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much >> >>Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) > >Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I >blame it on you:) > >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 11 09:28:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980711085731.006a3248@pop3.concentric.net> References: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980711092855.46a78bd6@intellistar.net> Wow, 1800 sq feet of warehouse and four more units! I'm glad John isn't in this part of the country! I'd never find anything! Joe At 08:57 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). Now since I've got the >1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much >>> >>>Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) >> >>Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I >>blame it on you:) >> >>Francois >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >> >> >> > > From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 10:56:42 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <005701bdace4$9177a420$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Do you live in TX or MN? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). That's because I went there in the mean time :) >Now since I've got the >1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Jul 11 07:46:35 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any ideas on the Sad Mac code? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:02:36 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <19980711180236.2973.qmail@hotmail.com> I have the feeling this is the early version, because mine is the later backlit one, which has no dip switches. The sad mac code could very easily be due to a power problem. It will sadmac if there isn't enough power. Note that running off the portable AC adapter is _not_ enough. You need an additional .5 amps, whereever you get it. >Hello, all: > > Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and >I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. > > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a >small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a >sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad >Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I >get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks >and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, >since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk >created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. > > Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any >ideas on the Sad Mac code? > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 13:07:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions In-Reply-To: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a > small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a > sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad > Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I Ah, you've just had first hand experience with one of Murphy's Laws: the error code that you get won't be documented. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 11 13:34:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807111834.AA06194@world.std.com> < of doing home drive repair < >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of < >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow < and < >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room < >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou < < Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does < make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. Not entirely true. ESD does permanent damage to the device even if it doesn't die. ALL (that I know of) drives have an internal air filter to pick up any dust that may appear so if the media is not damaged the air will be cleaned and reliability should be nominal (excludes the reason for first opening it). I have several drives I've had to open all running and all apparently living longer than average! Allison From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 11 13:52:19 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: **** snip **** > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then > you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass > shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head > calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the > platter. You forget that what permits the high areal density on current drives is the fact that the heads are able to fly so close to the magnetic media surface. What you propose would probably make your 1.2gb drive into about a 1.2kb drive! - don From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 15:30:17 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: Message-ID: <35A7CB59.D66CE85B@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > > This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a > short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard > drives? To bring it back on topic, I made the prototype circuit boards for one of the first removable HD companys (DMA Systems) and talked quite a bit with the engineers who did the design. I was told that as long as the area is reasonably clean, a clean room environment was not necessary (for a short time period) to run the drives with the cover off. Of course the obvious precautions like a relatively dust free room, and not smoking around the running drives need to be observed. From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 15:30:27 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet References: Message-ID: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Attended another great swapmeet today and picked up some things I had been looking for. One friend of mine met me there and gave me a Lisa 2. Another friend brought over an AMD single board computer circa 1976. At the swapmeet itself, I picked up a Commodore SX64 along with most of the docs. At the end, everything was free and I picked up a Tandy 1400 LT Portable, HP85, IBM Professional Graphics Monitor, Tandy Plotter, Zenith Monitor in the box, a Cannon mono scanner and card, and some other misc. stuff. I also picked up one of the old Military Morse Code trainers and a bunch of tapes for $20. It is a good thing I only drive a 280ZX since I would have filled almost any vehicle I would have brought :). A bunch of things got dumpstered that I just don't have the room to store including a couple of Tektronics 435 scopes, some Heathkit test equipment, and some Eico scopes and other test equipment. Oh well, there will always be next year! BTW total outlay for everything I got was around $50. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 11 15:58:23 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Message-ID: Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare (prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody else did about an hour later). What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their models? (BTW, instead I came home with another GRiD 1900, another HP Portable Plus, another Epson PX-8, and another NEC 8201A at an average cost of $6 each. I have met my spare machine quota.) -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 16:03:53 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet Message-ID: <199807112103.OAA16898@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Marvin and all, At 01:30 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Attended another great swapmeet today and picked up some things I had >been looking for. Couid you and others that mention finds in swapmeets mention what the swapmeet was and where it is. I know it does not help for all the stuff already dumstered, but... Thanks. -Dave From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 16:29:52 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Son of the return of Finds Message-ID: <001201bdad13$1d55fb80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Just got back I bought whatever was left in the room, it was an estate sale and I got my van filled from floor to ceiling, I almost had to leave my wife and kids there to get everything home:) I got a very long list to inventory but so far: HP 150 HP 87 HP 75C HP 75D Cassette unit for the above Acousic modem for above HP 85 Plotter 7470? with HPIB misc printers misc monitors PC compatibles Four cases (dish barrel style) of software for the above plus misc MAC manuals (the MACs were gone :( And more... By the way the total put of pocket for the whole thing including yesterdays finds $78. I love to brag about great finds :) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:06:53 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <005701bdace4$9177a420$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711170653.006a3f8c@pop3.concentric.net> Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do alot of road running between the two states. At 10:56 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Do you live in TX or MN? >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > >>I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >>come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). > >That's because I went there in the mean time :) > >>Now since I've got the >>1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >>public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >>dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >>months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >>in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >>Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >>At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:13:05 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions In-Reply-To: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711171305.006a3910@pop3.concentric.net> Go to www.bford.demon.co.uk/mac/portablefaq.txt for list of the portable codes and what they mean. John At 08:46 AM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and >I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. > > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a >small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a >sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad >Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I >get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks >and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, >since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk >created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. > > Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any >ideas on the Sad Mac code? > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:19:12 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: References: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711171912.006a7384@pop3.concentric.net> I hear Apple would give these away to dealers, salesman, and others. I missed a newton on ebay that was clear also it went for close to $400 I think. At 03:58 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >else did about an hour later). > >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? > >(BTW, instead I came home with another GRiD 1900, another HP Portable >Plus, another Epson PX-8, and another NEC 8201A at an average cost of $6 >each. I have met my spare machine quota.) > >-- Doug > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 11 17:07:44 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:58:23 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199807112208.PAA09291@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > models? I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige case. Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. -Frank McConnell From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:30:48 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a >short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard >drives? Sam, I've got to disagree on this being off topic. Granted the case you are talking about is with modern drives, but I'm sure this is something of interest to many of us on the list. Consider this my request to please keep the discussion on the list. Unfortunalty I can't contribute to the discussion, as I've been meaning to research this, but haven't had time. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 11 16:37:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 11, 98 00:31:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/ddfaa0a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 11 16:44:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807111338.JAA15476@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 11, 98 09:38:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/7db75f00/attachment.ksh From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 18:45:34 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <002601bdad26$00230720$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. Any takers in the Mpls/St Paul area? Eric? Anyone else? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do >alot of road running between the two states. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:40:34 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <199807111333.JAA15416@user2.infinet.com> References: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 10, 98 10:50:10 pm Message-ID: >I can's speak for the Mac, but I did upgrade the 68EC030 (no MMU) to >a full 68030 on my Amiga 4000/030. It has a daughter card with the CPU >and FPU that snaps into a so-called "Fast" slot. I removed the old chip >(QFP) and soldered on the new one. I do not receommend it unless you have >extensive SMT experience. It does, however, work. That's big time gutsy, normally taking a soldering iron to a computer doesn't bother me, but the though of messing up an Amiga accidentally does! I still haven't worked up the nerve to do the INT2 upgrade on my A3000 (in part because I've not come up with the cash for an Accelerator, in part because it's such a pain to work on). BTW the 68040 daughter cards (3640 IIRC) are dirt cheap now, you can find Rev. 3.2 for $200 or less, and earlier revisions are even cheaper. The down side to the Commodore 68040 board is it doesn't have any additional RAM slots on the card. >The reason I can't say whether it will work for a Mac is that Apple is >picky. The Toolbox ROMs *might* expect certain things from certain models >of CPU, and freak out if the wrong processor is installed. I just don't >know enough about Mac firmware to say. The hardware, OTOH, will be fine. This is part of the problem. In fact I believe this is why when using a Macintosh Emulator on an Amiga you can use some ROMs but not others. > >-ethan Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 19:05:28 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <005501bdad28$f029a4c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would >really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to >endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. ^^^^^^^^ Yeah I don't get it either I meant eyebrow. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From wpe at interserv.com Sat Jul 11 19:06:42 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Yard Sale Finds Message-ID: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 (I think) that used to be in the old DEC PRO-350's, two LPT ports, and one serial port. Also a 5 3/4" floppy drive... Anyone ever heard of these people, or know anything about their stuff? 3 Monitors, one NEC, one Samsung, and one Tandy. A Citizen MSP-20 printer.. Cost of this "rescue" US 20$, and the people even helped load it into my car.. Now to sort it all out, and see "what works, and what don't". Will From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 19:46:23 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >else did about an hour later). I don't believe they were prototypes; more of souvenir-type deals, I believe. I could see paying $200, $300 is more than I'd spend for most any 'classic' computer. >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 19:46:29 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <199807120046.RAA01865@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > I have the adapter, and it looks to be the one made for the machine >(i.e., not a Powerbook 140 adapter). I'm having big problems with mine -- an >unidentified Sad Mac code (0000000F, sub code 00007FFF). I can't find a >reference to $0F in any reference docs that I have; the codes skip from $0E >to $10. Can't get it to boot at all. As soon as I get the Happy Mac face, I >get the above Sad Mac. I also have a bad hard drive. I can't find any mention of it either. And of course, if it doesn't start up, it's awfully hard to run the diagnostic software. I never did understand that... I'd say the HD is the least of your problems. After all, you can always run the system of the floppy and there is an external SCSI port. There's a guy in Virgina who does a lot of work with Mac Portables; he has adapters so that you can use normal SCSI HD's internally for $30. If anybody's really interested I can probably find his name and email somewhere. > I'm going to research the batteries. I hear that you can rebuild the >pack with 3 ea. 2v/5ah Gates "D" batteries which are commonly available in >the surplus market. The packs that I have say "Gates Energy Products" on >them. I've heard of people rebuilding them also, though I have never tried (I don't currently own a Portable). Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 19:52:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet References: <199807112103.OAA16898@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <35A808CA.B920CC0@rain.org> dave dameron wrote: > Couid you and others that mention finds in swapmeets mention what the > swapmeet was and where it is. I know it does not help for all the > stuff > already dumstered, but... > Thanks. Sure, this one is an annual event put on by the Santa Barbara Amateur Radio Club as a club fundraiser. It starts at 9AM and by 11AM, everything left is free. Another thing that got to the dumpster was a DecWrite II. From dcoward at pressstart.com Sat Jul 11 21:03:32 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: TTY art Message-ID: <19980711193252.0a9992fd.in@mail.pressstart.com> A few months ago, someone was looking for Teletype art. Today I found " the RTTY Handbook" (Tab Books No. 597, Wayne Green, 1972). It has a chapter on RTTY art, it history, and 5 or 6 examples. Here's one by Ralph Larson of Teletype Corp. ..... .. XXXXX:::XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: XXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXX:: ..:IXX::XXXXXX:XXXX::.:':XXXX:: ..::::XX:XXXXXX:XXXX:'::':XXXXX:: ..:::'X:XXXXXXXX':XXXX:XXXXXXXX':. ...:X'.'XXXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXXXXXX'XXX:. ....:X.:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:'XXXX: ...."X.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"""'' :XXXXXX: ...::'"""''''"'""""'''' :XXXXXX: ..:.:..... .:XXXXX: :..::..... :'XXXXX: .:::.... .:XXXXX ::'''' .:XXXXX . ....,, ...... :XXXXX ::: .::" XXX ::' ''": .XXXX:. :.: :::"MM'""X .:"MM '. "X"'.: ::' I:..:.:X ."''.' .::' : ::XI XI ::: : :XX XI .::"': :X' .:. /X. .::: . '"".... /XXX.:XX. ...: . ":.... '::"' ...:. ':... ...: :.... :..:II:II:..: ...: ':.... ::. ..:: ':... '"""""' .::: .:... . ..::::' ':.... : ..:'.XXI:... ....:::X:... .:::::' XXXXXXI:X:. .....:::XXXXXXXX::::::......:::::' .XXXXXXXIMMM::. .::XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:::::::::::::::' .XXXXXXXXXMMMMMMM:. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'::::::::::::' .'.:XXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX '::::::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::'. ' .XXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .'WWWW. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXX'MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .'WWWWWW .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .:WWWW" ' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX : 'WW' ' XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.MMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX' :.WWW' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX...WWWWW......XXXXXXXXXX LARSON OF TELETYPE ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Jul 11 17:44:00 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Places to try in Rochester, NY? In-Reply-To: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <199807120222.WAA13017@commercial.cgocable.net> Hi guys! I'm visiting (right now living with friend) Rochester NY. What's the good places to try for old and used computers parts , including classics focused on mostly peecees parts? Thanks! Oh, good luck on yours spate of recent pickups successes! About the HD, my luck runs usually with component level repairs on circuit boards but very poor results in cracked open HDs repairs. Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From rexstout at uswest.net Sat Jul 11 21:45:04 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz edition Apple IIgs computers. >every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of which can cost a LOT of money. > I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear >plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of >the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something >about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? I haven't heard that. You can always paint them, but why? There was the beige used on the 128k through the Plus, and starting with later Pluses and SE's, they went to a greyish color they call platinum. And there was the MacTV which came in a black case, and the PowerBooks which came in platinum or black depending on the model. I've never heard of a Mac II or LC with a clear case, unless they were custom made cases for specific applications... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:07:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online text or PDF copy. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 11 22:10:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> < I'e thought about making a plastic (perspex/plexiglass) box with the < fan/filter from a demountable drive (I have that sort of thing in my junk < box) to blow clean air into the unit. Then take the drive apart, fix it, < put it back. A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be clear with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily excees class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. < 1) Open up a drive, repair it in a minor way (say replace a pre-amp chip < on the flex cable, replace the end stops, that sort of thing), and have < it run long enough to get the data off it. I've done this on at least 4 micropolus 1325s (rd53, 71mb) that had gummy end stops and one that had a misset end stop! none have been under special conditions described. I also have a st506 that I put a plexi cover on about 10 years ago, still runs though not currently in use (has CP/M on it). < 2) Open up a drive, or several drives, and move parts around, including < heads and platters, to make a working drive that'll run for quite a long < time. Long enough to think of installing it in a classic computer that I < was using. Never considered this. though I have several I could experiment on. < < Doing (1) means you have to be able to align heads, etc, over the < existing tracks on the media. Doing (2) probably requires a lower dust < particle count. Not really. < > filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room < > air and be worked on without introducing dangerous dust particles onto t Look at the air flow and realize that dust on the platter is suffering from centrifical force of the platters at 3600 rpm. There is an amazing amount of moving air trying to send everything to the periphery! < > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the < > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over th < > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then < < Remember that as data density increases, you need to lower the flying < height of the head. That's why demountable drives have a lower capacity th < winchesters of the same period. The demountable has to have a higher < flying height due to the fact that it's 'dirtier'. All true but... the newer drive are plated metal (cobalt and nickle are hard!) and some of the substrates used are ceramic and even glass for rigiditity. < The old drum stores had fixed heads. The height was set by the screw < mounts of the heads - and in general it was quite high because of < mechanical errors in making the thing. The flying heads of the hard disks < meant that the head would follow slight run-out in the platter, allowing < a lower flying height and higher density. The problem there was bearing runout, the concentricity of the drum and it's size setting up mechaical vibrations. Later drums would float the head on a spring and didn't suffer many of the problems as they could float. < For this reason, I think it's possibly realistic to consider working on < 50Mbyte and below - maybe up to 100Mbyte - winchesters at home, given a < clean box. I personally feel that the 1.2Gbyte 2.5" units will not be < capable of being repaired in a clean box, though - the flying height is < just too low. But I'd love to be proved wrong. I ran an old 320mb 3.5" conner with the cover off as it would not seek to home track without help. ran like that for several hours while I copied it. It's internal airflow from the platters rotating were quite impressive. Like I said in an earlier mail, all these drive have internal filters that take advanatage of the airflow to capture any dust that makes it in. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:11:30 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: Message-ID: <35A82962.15C00BB4@bbtel.com> We had 10" drives in our test rack tied to an HP 1000 minicomputer that had both removable and fixed platters. They weren't crash proof but were replaceable in the shop, no dust room since there was positive airflow through the drive unit. You didn't dare sweep the floor though! As far as head calibration you were looking at a very expensive set of instruments for this and the platters alone were costly. Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > **** snip **** > > > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the > > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the > > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then > > you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass > > shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head > > calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the > > platter. > > You forget that what permits the high areal density on current drives is > the fact that the heads are able to fly so close to the magnetic media > surface. What you propose would probably make your 1.2gb drive into > about a 1.2kb drive! > - don -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:12:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: TTY art References: <19980711193252.0a9992fd.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <35A829A2.1FD5EB33@bbtel.com> Somewhere around here I have some nudes and cartoons, will have to dig deep into my old ARC files. Doug Coward wrote: > A few months ago, someone was looking for Teletype art. > > Today I found " the RTTY Handbook" (Tab Books No. 597, > Wayne Green, 1972). > It has a chapter on RTTY art, it history, and 5 or 6 > examples. Here's one by Ralph Larson of Teletype Corp. > > ..... .. > XXXXX:::XXXXXXXXXXXXX > XXX:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: > XXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXX:: > ..:IXX::XXXXXX:XXXX::.:':XXXX:: > ..::::XX:XXXXXX:XXXX:'::':XXXXX:: > ..:::'X:XXXXXXXX':XXXX:XXXXXXXX':. > ...:X'.'XXXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXXXXXX'XXX:. > ....:X.:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:'XXXX: > ...."X.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"""'' :XXXXXX: > ...::'"""''''"'""""'''' :XXXXXX: > ..:.:..... .:XXXXX: > :..::..... :'XXXXX: > .:::.... .:XXXXX > ::'''' .:XXXXX > . ....,, ...... :XXXXX > ::: .::" XXX ::' ''": .XXXX:. > :.: :::"MM'""X .:"MM '. "X"'.: > ::' I:..:.:X ."''.' .::' : > ::XI XI ::: : > :XX XI .::"': > :X' .:. /X. .::: . > '"".... /XXX.:XX. ...: . > ":.... '::"' ...:. > ':... ...: > :.... :..:II:II:..: ...: > ':.... ::. ..:: > ':... '"""""' .::: > .:... . ..::::' > ':.... : ..:'.XXI:... > ....:::X:... .:::::' XXXXXXI:X:. > .....:::XXXXXXXX::::::......:::::' .XXXXXXXIMMM::. > .::XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:::::::::::::::' .XXXXXXXXXMMMMMMM:. > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'::::::::::::' .'.:XXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX '::::::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::'. ' .XXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .'WWWW. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXX'MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .'WWWWWW .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .:WWWW" ' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX : 'WW' ' XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.MMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX' :.WWW' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX...WWWWW......XXXXXXXXXX LARSON OF TELETYPE > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:19:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm Message-ID: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 11 22:39:16 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right place). Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? -- Doug From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Jul 11 23:28:21 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - IBM Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980712002753.00691cc0@netpath.net> Speaking of curious cards: I just picked up 5 stripped down Dell 433p machines. Nothing in them except motherboard, 486-dx33 processor, and riser card. BUT... In two or three I found the following card. I didn't look hard enough at the numbers, but I can pretty much describe it: The card has one dsub shell, 9-pin on the back, there's a machined aluminum chip on the card, marked IBM, and there's an ODD and EVEN ROM set. My first guess was mono graphics cards (VGA is built-in to MB) but I got to thinking: Did IBM ever make a network card with this type of connector on it? All I know is twisted pair, coax, and have seen token ring stuff before but not worked with it. What does it sound like to you guys? (Slightly off-topic, by 3 years.) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 11 23:42:00 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA No, but I have one called a PC-68K made by Costanza and TLM Systems which looks for a disk with OS/9. - don > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 23:46:14 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: Message-ID: <35A83F96.4E68489C@bbtel.com> No high voltage on an LCD, it's a low volt device that the presence or lack of voltage causes the cystals to align or scatter, causing balck or clear. There's two types and I don't need to go into the diffs in field effect and the other. Your outlook on what might be at fault is good. This is one of those things that someone that does this a lot could probably snap their fingers and have the answer. I personally haven't had that much experience with that machine and would have to dig in the schematics and do some hands on to try to isolate it. Doug Yowza wrote: > OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > place). > > Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > > I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy > the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > > -- Doug -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ecloud at goodnet.com Sat Jul 11 23:58:38 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 11, 98 10:39:16 pm Message-ID: <199807120458.VAA09040@goodnet.com> > OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > place). > > Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? I think since LCD's have conductive traces on the glass, that to drive a column of pixels with the AC voltage necessary would involve bonding a flexible-circuit ribbon to the conductive traces along the edges. I would think that is the most likely culprit (maybe it got un-bonded), and probably next to impossible to repair (due to being microscopic traces, and lack of the right conductive adhesives, and general messiness). Then again, I have seen small LCD's that used a rubber sandwich (alternating thin layers of conductive rubber and non-conductive, stacked up to make a strip as wide as the LCD) to connect PC board traces with the transparent conductive stuff on the glass, so in that case maybe it'd just be a matter of cleaning and tightening.... If you try to fix it, you should probably be prepared to buy a new LCD JIC that becomes necessary. (Disclaimer: seldom have I ever tried to repair a LCD, never a laptop LCD, and never have I succeeded... I'm just guessing...) -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 11 23:58:55 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <6560f749.35a84291@aol.com> Ive also opened up hard drives here at the house, but i wouldnt bet on them running for much longer after. the next time you see sunlight streaming through a window, take a look. you'll actually be able to see all the dust particles floating around in the air even though you'd think most if not all dust would settle. In a message dated 98-07-11 09:52:03 EDT, you write: << [snip] of doing home drive repair >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou : Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does :make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. >> From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 12 00:00:03 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: <35A83F96.4E68489C@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > No high voltage on an LCD I guess high is a relative term, but after shorting out a WinBook back-light with my finger, I thought somebody hit me with a Taser. -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 12 00:24:07 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). Are the lines stationary? Wait a minute the lines are running top to bottom? Hmmm, not quite what I was thinking. I suspect the panel is going bad. Also what kind of an environment have you been using it in? Speaking of bad PowerBook panels, does anyone know if it's possible to replace a backlight? I've got a PB520c (It's a classic even though it's not 10 years old), and I used it so much while in the Navy that I wore the backlight out (I was using it about 12 hours a day for 6 months while on a cruise, what can I say, I was sitting in a computer room by myself babysitting a mainframe, and learning Mac programming). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Jul 12 00:35:46 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: >Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has >amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says >it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA What kind, if any, connectors does it have? Any other important chips(like UARTs, transceivers, controllers, etc...)? >Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? I doubt it, but anythings possible... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 00:29:49 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <002601bdad26$00230720$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712002949.006a560c@pop3.concentric.net> Name a date and time, I will be going to Chicago either the 18th or 25th to shop for classic's. I'm waiting on a guy there to call me (never talked with him) as he knows all the places there to go for old computers. At 06:45 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would >really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to >endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. >Any takers in the Mpls/St Paul area? Eric? Anyone else? >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > >>Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do >>alot of road running between the two states. > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 00:34:31 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712003431.006a15e0@pop3.concentric.net> Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? John At 05:46 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >>(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >>lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >>else did about an hour later). > >I don't believe they were prototypes; more of souvenir-type deals, I >believe. I could see paying $200, $300 is more than I'd spend for most >any 'classic' computer. > >>What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >>clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >>models? > > I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale >every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. > I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear >plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of >the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something >about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:44:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - IBM References: <3.0.32.19980712002753.00691cc0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A84D3D.86D5C294@bbtel.com> IBM token ring network card - I have probably 100 or more of these. John Higginbotham wrote: > Speaking of curious cards: I just picked up 5 stripped down Dell 433p > machines. Nothing in them except motherboard, 486-dx33 processor, and riser > card. BUT... In two or three I found the following card. I didn't look hard > enough at the numbers, but I can pretty much describe it: > > The card has one dsub shell, 9-pin on the back, there's a machined aluminum > chip on the card, marked IBM, and there's an ODD and EVEN ROM set. My first > guess was mono graphics cards (VGA is built-in to MB) but I got to > thinking: Did IBM ever make a network card with this type of connector on > it? All I know is twisted pair, coax, and have seen token ring stuff before > but not worked with it. What does it sound like to you guys? > > (Slightly off-topic, by 3 years.) > > - > - john higginbotham ____________________________ > - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > - limbo limbo.netpath.net - -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:46:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: Message-ID: <35A84DA5.505B0D42@bbtel.com> The backlight is a little bit different story and I must admit I forgot all about the backlight. It's low voltage in essence but holds a good jolt like a capacitor or xenon flash tube. Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > No high voltage on an LCD > > I guess high is a relative term, but after shorting out a WinBook > back-light with my finger, I thought somebody hit me with a Taser. > > -- Doug -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:56:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A85024.453DEFBB@bbtel.com> It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount (like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board as well. The MicroCom part number is 05-0003402-0010 I must admit I haven't tried to search out to see if MicroCom is even in existance any longer but I should. John Rollins wrote: > >Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > >amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > >it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > What kind, if any, connectors does it have? Any other important chips(like > UARTs, transceivers, controllers, etc...)? > > >Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > I doubt it, but anythings possible... > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:57:41 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A85054.3D72DA0A@bbtel.com> This doesn't appear to have any disk I/O function. See the reply I did with more details. Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > No, but I have one called a PC-68K made by Costanza and TLM Systems which > looks for a disk with OS/9. > - don > > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > ICQ UIN #1714857 > > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:59:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: <6560f749.35a84291@aol.com> Message-ID: <35A850B2.27A76A3E@bbtel.com> Just the mositure droplets from your breath ot the dead skin and hair from your body is enough to screw it over. SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Ive also opened up hard drives here at the house, but i wouldnt bet on them > running for much longer after. the next time you see sunlight streaming > through a window, take a look. you'll actually be able to see all the dust > particles floating around in the air even though you'd think most if not all > dust would settle. > > In a message dated 98-07-11 09:52:03 EDT, you write: > > << [snip] > of doing home drive repair > >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of > >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow > and > >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room > >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou > > : Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does > :make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. >> -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From KFergason at aol.com Sun Jul 12 01:04:33 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm Message-ID: Probably not a compatibility thing, more likely a co-processor board of some sort, like the Definicon. Kelly In a message dated 7/11/98 10:20:42 PM Central Daylight Time, rhblake@bbtel.com writes: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 01:15:24 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A8547C.57820BF7@bbtel.com> Hopefully someone knows this card by use and hopefully I might have a new toy to mess with after the Dell server. KFergason@aol.com wrote: > Probably not a compatibility thing, more likely a co-processor board > of some sort, like the Definicon. > > Kelly > > In a message dated 7/11/98 10:20:42 PM Central Daylight Time, > rhblake@bbtel.com writes: > > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 12 01:12:56 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman's message of Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:19:13 -0500 References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807120612.XAA24128@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA Microcom makes modems. Maybe other datacomm stuff too. What kinds of connectors are on the back plate? I have a full-length ISA 8-bit card here with a 68000 on it -- it's a Telebit modem. I'm not sure whether it's a T1000 or a TrailBlazer Plus though. -Frank McConnell From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 01:36:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> <199807120612.XAA24128@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35A8595F.C69C2E0B@bbtel.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > Microcom makes modems. Maybe other datacomm stuff too. What kinds > of connectors are on the back plate? > > I have a full-length ISA 8-bit card here with a 68000 on it -- > it's a Telebit modem. I'm not sure whether it's a T1000 or a > TrailBlazer Plus though. > > -Frank McConnell I knew they made primarily modems and this may be some sort of modem associated with a token ring network too, or a multiplexer or something. Never saw one and the 68000 got me wondering. It has only a 9 pin sub-d on the backplate. I wrote up a detailed explative in an earlier post. Thanks. So how's life with Mr. McC lately?? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 12 01:57:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare > (prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my > lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody > else did about an hour later). Did they finally sell that stupid thing, or did they just say they did? That dumb thing has been around for over a year now. Everytime I saw the guy, he was "taking offers". I was going to offer $200-$300 next time I saw it, but that was last year. It wasn't really a prototype, but rather a special edition that was made by some rogue engineers inside Apple or something like that for some comemorative event. > What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > models? I was talking to a guy one day and he mentioned that it was a fad at one point to build clone Apple ][s in clear plastic cases. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:19:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <35A8639D.F735E81B@bbtel.com> Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA slot? This is my first hardware level adventure with an EISA machine and right now it has EISA controllers and open slots, that I would love to put certain ISA cards (sound for one) into but while I'm reasonably sure, I don't want to risk blowing anything up. I've been under the understanding that EISA was backward compatible with ISA. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Sun Jul 12 02:27:55 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <35A8639D.F735E81B@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA > slot? EISA is a very cool bus (and is almost on topic, being ratified as a standard in early 1989, to combat MCA). It is 100% backward compatible with ISA. There are standoffs at the bottom of the EISA card connectors so that ISA cards won't make electrical contact with the EISA part of the socket. EISA cards are slotted so as to fit all the way down in. ok r. From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Jul 12 02:31:37 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A85024.453DEFBB@bbtel.com> References: Message-ID: It's a Token Ring card. The 252-1C TR marking and the TMS380C16 chip give it away. The 380C16 is a Token Ring processor chip. The Silicom 5000 sounds like some sort of filter. The 62256 are RAM chips. >It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a >label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big >block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the >left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount >(like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On >the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it >has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the >lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers >to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on >it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board >as well. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:35:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A8672D.ACDD1AC6@bbtel.com> I have a feeling you're right after wading through tons of nothing on MicroCom's site, which is a division of Compaq. Hopefully they'll send me some info docs on it this week so I positively ID this monster card. Thanks. John Rollins wrote: > It's a Token Ring card. The 252-1C TR marking and the TMS380C16 chip give > it away. The 380C16 is a Token Ring processor chip. The Silicom 5000 sounds > like some sort of filter. The 62256 are RAM chips. > > >It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a > >label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big > >block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the > >left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount > >(like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On > >the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it > >has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the > >lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers > >to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on > >it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board > >as well. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:38:18 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: Message-ID: <35A867EA.9EE3CE11@bbtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA > > slot? > > EISA is a very cool bus (and is almost on topic, being ratified as a > standard in early 1989, to combat MCA). It is 100% backward compatible > with ISA. > > There are standoffs at the bottom of the EISA card connectors so that ISA > cards won't make electrical contact with the EISA part of the socket. EISA > cards are slotted so as to fit all the way down in. > Thanks very much Red. I saw the standoffs which made it look strange so I figured I'd better ask just to be sure. I wasn't aware that the standoffs keep the card at a certain depth though, guess you learn something new everyday. Cool? I imagine, and this big puppy case is also a neat looking item that I'm going to put in as a server with all sorts of expectations. Appreciate the info thanks again. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 02:55:39 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <199807120755.AAA03822@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 10:39 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > I have seen vertical lines on LCD's, one or more pixels wide. These were swapped in a repair shop, so thought there was some ESD damage to the drivers on the LCD module. The lines were still there when the cables, controller were switched. The rest of the display still worked OK. It may have bad contacts to the LCD electrodes, as well, this could give the same effect, although open contacts may leave the addressed line "blank" not black. -Dave From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Jul 12 07:02:29 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <003701bdad8e$6b60a8e0$4712fea9@mainoffice> On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:02:36 PDT, "Max Eskin" wrote: >>I have the feeling this is the early version, because mine is the later >>backlit one, which has no dip switches. The sad mac code could very >>easily be due to a power problem. It will sadmac if there isn't enough >>power. Note that running off the portable AC adapter is _not_ enough. >>You need an additional .5 amps, whereever you get it. Why is that? Who ever heard of a battery charger for a laptop being *just* a charger? So, if I hook-up a known-good battery power source of similar amperage to the internal battery slot, I should be good to go. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 08:32:39 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Michael Sheflin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Jul 12 08:45:18 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <020b01bdad9b$4ecdfae0$32f665cb@default> >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? > I have an Apple ][ disk drive in a clear (orange) plastic case in front of me right now. The plastic itself just wraps around the top and two sides, with the back and bottom being grey plastic. It is a standard size isk ][ drive, badged on the back Apple Computer Ltd, Holly Hill Industrial Estate, Cork, Ireland just like the two other regular Disk ][ drives I have. But the plastic itself has no markings on it, so it MAY have been put on by an earlier owner. Phil Guerney - Brisbane, Australia. guerney@uq.net.au From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Jul 12 09:26:30 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <000801bdada1$10d6e2a0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> 86 computers at the last count 18 video consoles 6 hand-held games 456 game cartidges lots and lots of software and manuals Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:22:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <19980712152243.11652.qmail@hotmail.com> As I've said before, I think that getting the battery to work correctly will solve your sad mac problems. I was able to temporarily recharge the battery by taking an old power cable, plugging it in, and touching the cables to the battery terminals. It blew the surge protector a couple of times, but eventually, I was able to power up the mac. However, this will eventually wear off and the mac will cease to work again. When this happened to me, I decided to rebuild the battery, so I took it apart and left it on my shelf for a few months while the mac ran off two AC adapters. Then I decided I won't rebuild the battery after all because it would cost $30 to buy the cells, so I put it back together and reinserted it into the mac. The two AC adapters were still plugged in. After several weeks of sitting on this intensive overvoltaged charge cycle (during which the machine still worked), the battery is as reliable as it should be. I haven't tested it in fear that it might not recharge too well again, but the portable runs for 15 minutes at least w/o wall adapters. >I've heard of people rebuilding them also, though I have never tried (I >don't currently own a Portable). > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:37:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <19980712153800.14598.qmail@hotmail.com> I have no experience with this, but I am willing to bet that it's the ribbon cables that go from the circuit board to the LCD. I've known them to cause this. First, check that the glue or tape that holds them to the board didn't undo itself. If not, I have no idea how to replace them, since they are attached right onto the LCD panel. >No high voltage on an LCD, it's a low volt device that the presence or lack >of voltage causes the cystals to align or scatter, causing balck or clear. >There's two types and I don't need to go into the diffs in field effect and >the other. > >Your outlook on what might be at fault is good. This is one of those things >that someone that does this a lot could probably snap their fingers and have >the answer. I personally haven't had that much experience with that machine >and would have to dig in the schematics and do some hands on to try to >isolate it. > >Doug Yowza wrote: > >> OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >> (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >> on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >> display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >> place). >> >> Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >> problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? >> >> I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy >> the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? >> >> -- Doug > > > >-- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:49:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980712154943.566.qmail@hotmail.com> Sure! I certainly have quite an aura of dandruff around me. Once, I opened up a 44MB hard drive because it wouldn't work (still don't know what's wrong). When I was closing it, I noticed that it had dust on the platter. After wiping it many times, blowing on it, etc. I found it was impossible to get it really clean. >Just the mositure droplets from your breath ot the dead skin and hair from your >body is enough to screw it over. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 10:55:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A8DC6E.56623D69@bbtel.com> Michael Sheflin wrote: > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin My own, probably 30...in work for sale probably 450. That doesn't include video terminals and other stuff. The network I have in here is for fun really as well as a continuous learning process with the new Dell server and now 8 workstations on it from 8088 XT to Pentium II 233 machines, all on NE2000 type cards. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 11:32:28 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807121632.JAA05416@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? I was just referring to , but I don't like to use those newsgroup names when I'm writing in English and not USENET. :-) Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 11:32:33 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807121632.JAA05462@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >> I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >>cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale >Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that >I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that >had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might >have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, >but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz >edition Apple IIgs computers. I don't mean in general production. I know I've seen 100's, 110's, and 120's advertised, not sure about 130's. I know I haven't seen any MP 2000's. There's an _excellent_ web site devoted to rare Newtons. I lost the url, but a search should bring it up without much trouble. >Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I >think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think >I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should >be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really >doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of >which can cost a LOT of money. When Apple discontinued the Newton a few months back there was a small protest held by Newton users and developers at Apple headquarters. At this Apple past around wooden Newtons for the people to look at it. I don't know if any have been released outside the company, though it wouldn't suprise me if some disappeared during the rally. >I haven't heard that. You can always paint them, but why? There was the >beige used on the 128k through the Plus, and starting with later Pluses and >SE's, they went to a greyish color they call platinum. And there was the >MacTV which came in a black case, and the PowerBooks which came in platinum >or black depending on the model. I've never heard of a Mac II or LC with a >clear case, unless they were custom made cases for specific applications... There were a few Powerbook 5xx's done in white. These are _very_ rare from what I understand (I've never seen one advertised, at any price). Anybody have a information on this unit? A picture? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 06:53:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 11, 98 11:10:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3152 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/e12cf9af/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 07:01:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 11, 98 10:24:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/5353030c/attachment.ksh From jrice at texoma.net Sun Jul 12 12:33:16 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A8F35C.354724B1@texoma.net> About 75, 16-17 of which I use regularly. Tandy's, Amiga's, Mac's, Apple 2GS, Clones, Commodores, TI99's, TS1000. James PS A couple of terminals also. Michael Sheflin wrote: > > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 12 12:32:48 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807121632.JAA05462@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > When Apple discontinued the Newton a few months back there was a small > protest held by Newton users and developers at Apple headquarters. At > this Apple past around wooden Newtons for the people to look at it. I > don't know if any have been released outside the company, though it > wouldn't suprise me if some disappeared during the rally. I recall reading that John Sculley used these as demonstratative prototypes but that they didn't actually do anything, i.e. they were just carved blocks of wood. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 13:22:33 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ items. John At 06:32 AM 7/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 13:26:01 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807121632.JAA05416@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712132601.006a697c@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for the feedback John At 09:32 AM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? > >I was just referring to , but I don't like >to use those newsgroup names when I'm writing in English and not USENET. >:-) > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > > From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 12 13:39:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ > items. John And at an average cost of about $5 each, right? That reminds me of the dilemma I faced when I was buying my first new car: I could either pay $10K for the new car, or I could get a fleet of 50 old clunkers and start my own taxi business. :-) -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 12 13:50:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807121850.AA08811@world.std.com> < However, a book on metal casting at home (did I mention I have other < insane interests...) mentions that vacuum cleaner motors produce a < reasonable pressure, but not that much air flow. It suggests a better < choice is a car heater fan motor. Those are also easy and cheap to get, < of course. It would, however a glove box of 8cuft (2x2x2) would not require much air flow once "cleared" and the remaining air needed is only that required to provide some trivial positive pressure to then insure clean air flows out and dirty air does not get sucked in. For that volumes in the 2-10cfm level is all than is needed. the positive pressure needed is on the order of 0.1" water. A vacuum motor is if anything over doing it as they are in the 200-500 cfm range. < Yep... That's the drive I rebuilt over the air stream from the RK07 :-). I've done a bunch of them and I just clear my work area and go to work. For the paranoid a vacuum with a hepa filter on the output blowing down on the work area might be in order but take care to not stir up dust. < I think it's going to be important to be able to do this in the future. < They'll come a point when there are no (say) Micropolis 1200s working, < but enough non-working ones lying about to be able to be able to make 2 < or 3 into a good one. A glove box is trivial to build. I'd use a 25 CFM blower and a small hepa filter and the box could be made with LEXAN (clear plastic) glued with RTV and cleaned well. the front would be a curtain of 6mil poly with velcro holding it to the edges. Holes would be provided to allow reaching in with plastic gloved hands. The hole to not have to be air tight around the gloves and the positive airflow in in the box would insure air flows out. Hint: filter is on the output side of the blower forcing air into the box and the outflow is through a coarse filter to limit outflow. < For that reason, maybe we should start keeping dead hard drives.... To perfect technique. Getting the right tools is half the battle. < Sure... I was pointing out that fixed (not sprung) heads -> higher flying < height (due to runout) -> lower density. Not that drums are always low < density devices. understood. Keep in mind the old fixed head drums were mecanically crude devices and magnetics were not well understood as yet. < I wonder why, therefore, that service manuals on winchesters always say < that you can't work on the insides of the HDA outside a clean room < (which, by implication, you don't have). Even when the same manufacturer < made demountable drives and did include instructions for head replacement < on those. Because if you making 500-1000 drives a day tossing 10-20 for damage due to someone sneezing is far to costly. Also they have to insure they are clean. But the level of clean needed is low. A hair net, nylon dust free gloves, no facial hair and a dustmask over the nose and mouth would eminimate 90% of human sources. Also not putting finger prints or other debries on the disk is a must as rag wiping is already far to filthy. there is care and there is paranoia. For example did you know that ESD is damaging to magnetic media? If you deliver a hard spark to the plated media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster for servo tracks. FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the media and is then captured in a filter. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 15:10:29 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <19980712201029.23911.qmail@hotmail.com> I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular PC. Next to it, it had an LCD panel and keyboard. The case was much uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought you people might be interested. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 15:47:04 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712154704.006a1248@pop3.concentric.net> for the most part that's close, I do have some that have cost me in the hundreds (200to400) per machine. Lately I have been getting alot of free items from people that find out I collect old machines, a old Lawyer friend called my last week and asked her to pick up some items he no longer wanted. I have not seem any of it yet, but on my next trip to Texas I get to see then and I will give an update on these new finds here. I get about one call a week here and I have not put an ad in the paper yet. So as always tell everyone you meet that you are a collector and see what happens it cost nothing to spread the word this way. John At 01:39 PM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ >> items. John > >And at an average cost of about $5 each, right? That reminds me of the >dilemma I faced when I was buying my first new car: I could either pay >$10K for the new car, or I could get a fleet of 50 old clunkers and start >my own taxi business. :-) > >-- Doug > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 12:24:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Michael Sheflin" at Jul 12, 98 06:32:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/df6e14f6/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 12 19:51:25 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A95A0D.BB053672@rain.org> Michael Sheflin wrote: > > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Don't really know, but somewhere around 300 - 400, mostly micros. Probably another 20 - 30 monitors, 20+ printers, approx 200 cubic feet of books, magazines, and manuals, and an unknown quantity of assorted peripherals, disks, etc. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 12 20:24:03 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-12 10:21:45 EDT, you write: << >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > >> My last official count which was last fall, put me at 83. i have ~100 now, of which a few are going to a local radio rally next weekend. hopefully, i'll also be given a complete working mac si system. david From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 16:44:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807121850.AA08811@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 12, 98 02:50:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/b82b0c3e/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 21:20:45 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807130220.TAA12742@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? I have about 20 - 30 computers, about 15 monitors, and documentation for about half of the units. Mostly 8-bit systems and some Macs. I've got a pretty meager collection in comparison to most of you guys. :-) The pickings just aren't as good here in South-Central PA. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jul 12 20:20:58 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807112208.PAA09291@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal components. I guess they are used for promotional use after they're finished checking everything. I expect all the manufacturers do the same thing. Joe At 03:07 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >> What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >> clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >> models? > >I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember >seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, >but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. >Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige >case. > >Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear >cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. > >-Frank McConnell > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jul 12 21:07:03 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980712210703.306f2786@intellistar.net> At 12:53 PM 7/12/98 +0100, Tony wrote: >> >> A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums >> to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be clear >> with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily excees >> class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. > >Yes, that's the sort of thing..... > >However, a book on metal casting at home (did I mention I have other >insane interests...) mentions that vacuum cleaner motors produce a >reasonable pressure, but not that much air flow. It suggests a better >choice is a car heater fan motor. Those are also easy and cheap to get, >of course. I had been considering a range hood. The ones with a squirrel cage fan pull an lot of air and they aren't as noisy as the propeller type fans. Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 22:09:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable References: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35A97A58.9BA86EE4@bbtel.com> I know for fact that Western Electric did way back when to check the operation and fit of the mechanical parts in the phones. Joe wrote: > I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new > model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal > components. I guess they are used for promotional use after they're > finished checking everything. I expect all the manufacturers do the same > thing. > > Joe > > At 03:07 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > >> clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > >> models? > > > >I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember > >seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, > >but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. > >Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige > >case. > > > >Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear > >cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. > > > >-Frank McConnell > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 12 22:36:15 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980712210703.306f2786@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > At 12:53 PM 7/12/98 +0100, Tony wrote: > >> A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums > >> to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be > clear with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily > excess class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. > > I had been considering a range hood. The ones with a squirrel cage fan > pull an lot of air and they aren't as noisy as the propeller type fans. I would be a bit concerned about the pressure drop across the HEPA filter. Frankly, I am not familiar with them but a vacuum cleaner (centrifugal) blower is capable of rather greater pressure than a squirrel cage blower - which is designed for volume and not pressure. The volume of air from squirrel cage and HEPA could be insufficient to achieve the desired pressure and flow in the box. - don From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 22:58:10 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts Message-ID: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for use only with the HP45849A. They're both complete and like new but I have no equipment to test them with. I know HP stuff is expensive even when used and these aren't all that old by their looks and styling so they should make some HP owner very happy. I have no use for them but yet I would hate to dismantle them or dump them. Anyone know what these are exactly and would anyone be interested in the wo of them, maybe a trade or something? Email direct if interested in them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Jul 13 00:29:55 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Have you seen this front panel? Message-ID: <35ae9ad0.106823003@hoser> I was recently moving some things around in the basement, and ran across a couple of control panels I picked up many years ago. I have no idea what they're from, but I'd like to know. If you think you can identify them, please take a look and let me know. They're on my web page under "Classic Computers/Unidentified Technological Artifacts". Any help would be appreciated! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 00:35:25 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <199807130535.WAA11158@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 12:55 AM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >>problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? >> >I have seen vertical lines on LCD's, one or more pixels wide. These were >swapped in a repair shop, so thought there was some ESD damage to the >drivers on the LCD module. The lines were still there when the cables, >controller were switched. The rest of the display still worked OK. It may >have bad contacts to the LCD electrodes, as well, this could give the same >effect, although open contacts may leave the addressed line "blank" not black. >-Dave > I did a search on ESD and found this page for display panels, CD's etc. that you have had enough of. >http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/Plasma.html There is also an interesting discussion of NIXIE and other display tubes if you go back to the main page. From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 13 00:39:07 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman's message of Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:58:10 -0500 References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Russ Blakeman writes: > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > use only with the HP45849A. Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the 9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. -Frank McConnell From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 06:39:17 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <199807130925.LAA28788@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this > is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight > 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and > just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the > same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to > several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things > as well. any info appreciated. thanks! On all 68LC040 Macs you just need to exchange it with an 68040 to get the MathCo. Just check the frequency. But using a 636 for NetBSD isn't a good idea - any 486-PC will give the same or better performance - but while using Mac OS 8 the 63x are just fine machines. Gruss H. P.S.: don't forget the memory update - the 63x Macs can use 36 or 52 MB of Mem, depending on the mobo revision. If you have 1 SIMM slot, add a 32MB module, if there are two slots, use a 16 MB modul in the outhermost and a 32 in the innermost slot. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 07:37:30 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807131023.MAA08982@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >>cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale > Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that > I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that > had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might > have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, > but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz > edition Apple IIgs computers. There was a 'special edition' of the Newton 120 in clear case. A friend of mine has one - I'm still looking - there are only a few known in Germany, and they still sell for prices around 800-100 DM (USD 500+). Still on my wishlist. >>every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >>I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >>at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >>wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >>of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. > Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I > think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think > I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should > be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really > doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of > which can cost a LOT of money. As fas as I remember these woioden MPs where all mock ups - just a pice of carved wood. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 09:18:04 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131204.OAA25517@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Some Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 07:43:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807131204.OAA25517@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713084302.0091e980@netpath.net> 18 Systems total, never over 25 systems at one time, but this doesn't count systems that belong to customers, etc. (I have a platoon of Compact Macs sitting on my dining room floor as I type, waiting for cleaning and diagnosing.) I guess I am atypical in that I don't have more than 50 systems like most of the other members do on this list. It's not that I don't have a passion for the hobby, but I do have a wife and daughter, and there needs to be room in the house for all three of us. :) Here are the systems I use for everyday use: Mac IIx AMD 233mmx and these are the systems I don't keep online, but use occasionally: Mac SE/30 Mac SE Mac Classic Dell 433p DECpc 433 These are systems that I collect: GRiDCase 1535exp, currently down (HD problem) GRiDCase 3 GRiDCase 3 (Parts) GRiDPad 1912 Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem And of course my two consoles connected via a/v cables to a Magnovox RGB/Composite monitor: Atari Jaguar TurboGrafx 16 Computers I have just sitting around which need a new home: DECpc 433, 12mb, no HD GRiD 286mfp, a the bastard chylde of Tandy/GRiD TI-99/4a Copaq Portable, one of the big'uns. At 02:19 PM 7/13/98 +1, you wrote: > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > >Some > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 08:13:22 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <199807131315.NAA03678@cyber2.servtech.com> At 16:30 11-07-98 -0700, "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >>This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a >>short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard >>drives? > >Sam, >I've got to disagree on this being off topic. Granted the case you are >talking about is with modern drives, but I'm sure this is something of >interest to many of us on the list. Consider this my request to please >keep the discussion on the list. > >Unfortunalty I can't contribute to the discussion, as I've been meaning to >research this, but haven't had time. I feel Zane is pretty much correct re: being on topic w/r to our older drives. I sure as heck could not afford $1490 for the work that Sam had to pay to have done tho he may have *had* to do it w/r to his job (therefore, cost could be justified/recovered eventually.) Most of us are just plain hobbyists who want to try to preserve our equipment as best we can with little or no resources. I've got several 10+ year-old dead drives I was wondering how to handle especially a physically huge HP 7912 drive (64mb IIRC) that I'd really like to restore (servo error #9, either servo board or head positioner?) Nevertheless, thanks for bringing this up and many of us concerned will be watching for worthwhile suggestions. -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 08:23:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35AA0A45.4D6B29A7@bbtel.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Russ Blakeman writes: > > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > > use only with the HP45849A. > > Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch > display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the > 9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at > University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > > -Frank McConnell The 9123 is essentially a box about 3" tall, 12 or so inches wide and nearly a foot deep, with two over height 3.5" drives mounted in the face. The back has a cable about 2ft long with the 5 pin din and then there's a centronics type connector that's marked HP-IB. Then theres a sticker that says that it's for use only with the HP45849A..... Other than that I have never had any exposure to a unit like this. Got a batch of machines and my new Dell 4066/XE server and these were part of the load. They're in really nice condition too. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 08:25:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? References: <3.0.5.32.19980713084302.0091e980@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AA0AC0.734A1A2@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > (I have a platoon of Compact Macs sitting on my dining room floor as I type, > waiting for cleaning and > diagnosing.) I hear the working in the dining room! Until I get my shop building finished the dining room is the pooter room. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 08:31:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131331.AA25983@world.std.com> < > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Lessee... 2 VT1200 DEC X-terminal 5 Vt320 terminal 1 VT340 1 VT100 1 H19 2 DECMATEIIIs 1 PRO350 Venix 1 PDP-11/23 (ba11s) RT-11 1 PDP-11/23 (BA11va) RT-11 1 PDP-11/73 (ba11n) V7unix, RT-11, RSTS 1 PDT-11/130 RT-11 3 MicroVAX2000 (one VMS, one Ultrix) 8 Vaxserver3100m10e (vvvvv all VMS) 1 VAXstation3100m76 1 MicroVAXII (ba123) 1 MicrovaxII (ba23) 1 Epson PX-8 (CPM) 1 Kaypro 4/84 (CPM) 1 SB180 z180 system (ZCPR) 1 AmproLB (CPM) 3 Visual1050 CP/M 3 1 altair8800 1 Netronics explorer8085 (NS*dos and CP/M) 1 northstar* Horizon (NS*dos, cpm) 1 VECTOR MZ S100 box with computime and other boards of my design 1 CCS 2200 s100 system (CPM) 3 DEC vt180 boards setup to run outside of a v100 (CPM) 1 intel MCS800 8080 multibus development system 1 intel 80/10a multibus board based 8080 system (CPM) 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos 1 PS/2m50z dos 1 dell 386sx/16 minix 1 386sx/25 dos 1 386dx/33 linux 1 486dx2/50 dos/win3.1 1 486dx2/66 dos/win3.1 3 ti99/4a (one with everything, one beige unit, one being hacked) 1 cosmac elf (article version, Quest board) 1 6800 D1 evaluation board 1 National Semi SC/MP (8a500 chip) 1 national Semi SC/MP basic (8073) 1 IMSAI IMP48 (8035 control apps board ) 1 TK80A 8080 SBC 1 Intersil 6100 sampler board 1 Technico superstarter board (ti9900) 1 ADVICE MicroVAXII archecture ICE 1 NEC7806 demo board (tiny basic) 3 8085 SBCs made out of Vt100 printer buffer cards Something like 10 terminals and ~60 systems (most operational) Allison From blindpete at stratos.net Sun Jul 12 22:37:22 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Wang Thang (Forward From blindpete@stratos.net) Message-ID: <199807131344.GAA02866@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi Dug Sory I havent been able to reply sooner, I got burried under in email, like a thousand messages. It takes me a while to go threw. Yah the power failure is a problem, I would write the note and save it to disk on a flopy, so I would have lots of notes to go threw. I didn't loose any data this way, but am not sure what the power failure did to the system files. It always booted in to the wordprosessor so I don't think power outage effected the software. It took a few days of thinking to figure out how to repair the broken pin on the CPU, since I couldn't solder something that small. I didn't think it would work, and was trying to find a new CPU for it, well, it worked so I was spaired that. Also, I got a new piece of equiptment, it's a little box about five inches square and about one and some inches thick. It has a cable whith a DB 9 feemale conecter on the end of it. It's a Double talk synthasiser, Thought I'de sneek that in on you. I have been bissy whith configuring software on a notebook computer to make it talk. You can hear what it sounds like if you have a wave player, there are some wave files and other info about the doubletalk at: www.rcsys.com The cool thing about the doubletalk is the text to speech conversion is done by the doubletalk itself, so it doesn't use the computer's CPU to do that. Some of the text to speech software takes about 300K of conventional memory, this is a painfully slow way to use synthasisers whith computers. Another part of making the computer talk iss a screen reader program, this is what I was configuring , or trying to configure. What the screen reader does is it sends what is on the screen to the synthasiser to be spoken. The screenreader also does more things, but that is the basic thing it does. If you want to experiment whith a screen reader and don't have a synthasiser, I found one that uses the computer speaker to speek threw, I like this one because it installs itself and is easy to use, it's called seekline screen reader. Seekline has some drawbacks mainly the conventional memory usage mentioned abuv, another problem is seekline doesn't recognise non ascii characters on the screen, I don't know what these are since I can't see them. This is a newsence when you are in some setup programs, because when seekline sais press nonascii to exit, it is unknown what key to press. Aside from that seekline is a great little program. If you wnat to try it out it lives at: http://world.std.com/~speechfb The downloadable Seekline screen reader is shareware, one file about a meg or more called sl.exe works in dos. I have been trying to get people to try some of the screenreaders to get some feed back on what they think, I am not doing a servay or any thing like that, I am just curious about what people think. So if you have some extra time let me know what you think., I just thought of some thing, maybe you could install it on the Wang computer, it just might talk threw the computer speeker. I didn't know about seekline when I had the wang but if it worked in it I would have kept the wang. Befor you install seekline run the installation on a computer whith a monotor, so you can see what the menu choises are, seekline doesn't modify config.sys or autoexec.bat what seekline does is it writes a start.bat file in the seekline directory it writes to the hard drive. I forgot the 5.25 flopy problem, oh well, it was just a thought. Well, write me soon! Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From blindpete at stratos.net Sun Jul 12 22:37:28 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think there was a windows whith out a version number. The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it worked whith speech. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 09:04:51 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering References: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AA1402.87223A5A@bbtel.com> Dos 1.25 is the earliest version for general distributuion, previous versions were too buggy, same as DOS 2.0, the 2.11 was the distribution standard when double sided drives came out. blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest > versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think > there was a windows whith out a version number. > The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, > it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it > worked whith speech. > > Pete > > Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:04:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> I have 8 CPUs: A pentium-75 An Apple //c A PS/2 Model 70 A Packard Bell 486SX An Amiga 2000 A Macintosh Portable An Apple ][+ A brother word processor which I consider a computer What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... >Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem >At 02:19 PM 7/13/98 +1, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? >> >>Some >> >>Gruss >>H. >> >>-- >>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >>HRK >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 09:05:56 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713100556.009555a0@netpath.net> I have Windows 1.03 here, also DOS 1.25, but I am sure there were versions of DOS before that. 1.03 Windows runs pretty good on 512k XT, with one 720k floppy, with about 200k left over for data and stuff. Has all the common apps: Notepad, Write, Terminal, etc. As for the speech part, it just depends on the requirements of the speech program I would imagine. At 08:37 AM 7/13/98 +500, you wrote: > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >there was a windows whith out a version number. >The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >worked whith speech. > > Pete > >Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:12:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <19980713141232.20167.qmail@hotmail.com> The earliest version of Microsoft Windows was 1.0, which had a certain resemblance to the DOS Shell. There were very few programs for Windows 1.0 and 2.0, and programs written under Windows 3.1 won't run on earlier version, neither will Windows 3.1 run older software. 3.0 can run 2.0 programs. Microsoft bought QDOS (Quick & Dirty Operating System) in Beta form from Seattle Computer, Ltd. the night before they had to give IBM an operating system for the upcoming PC, for $50,000. The first DOS was 1.0, which had no support for hard disks as its greatest flaw. 2.0 had hard drive support. In general, most modern programs require DOS 3.1 or higher due to some functions DOS provides. I'm not too familiar with all of the exact revision history. Is there a page anywhere with this info? > Hi > > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >there was a windows whith out a version number. >The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >worked whith speech. > > Pete > >Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 09:13:51 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713101351.00922100@netpath.net> At 07:04 AM 7/13/98 PDT, you wrote: >What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... >>Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem Well, I can't tell you who made it, but it's a little tower with two 5.25" drives mounted vertically, and requires a dongle on one of the joystick ports to work. I haven't even cranked it up yet to compare the performance to the C 15xx series drives. I think the model number is MSD-2. The MSD-1 was a single drive unit. I have all the docs and disks that came with it, so when I ever do get it cranked up, I'll post the specifics. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Jul 13 09:18:53 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: >> I have Windows 1.03 here, also DOS 1.25, but I am sure there were versions >> of DOS before that. didn't IBM release a version of DOS before that? Similarly with IBM DOS 2.0 - I'm sure that was generally available (I don't remember the original post specifically mentioning MS-DOS) cheers Jules > From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Jul 13 10:22:59 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online text or PDF copy. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:43 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ Blakeman To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: Classic computers message group X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 13 10:01:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980713100118.2e97b4d0@intellistar.net> At 10:39 PM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >Russ Blakeman writes: >> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two >> 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector >> and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for >> use only with the HP45849A. > >Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch >display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the >9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at >University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > >-Frank McConnell Yeap, they're for the TS II (Touch Screen II). That's the only machine that they'll work on. The 9123 is exactly the same as a 9122 except it doesn't have a power supply. The DIN plug is to supply power to the drives. BUT you can add an external power supply and then you can use them just like regular HP 9122 drives. BTW ******BIG WARNING****** I have found that the double sided drives like those used in the 9122, 9122, 9133, etc are prone to hanging up and not raising the discs completely when you try to eject a disc. If you force the disc out or insert a disc, you will almost certainly rip the top head off the drive. The problem is caused by the grease that was used on the drive machanism, it gets dry and gummy with age and binds the mechanism. When you use those drives, watch and be certain that the drive opens completely before removing or inserting a disk. Joe > From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 11:29:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> <3.0.1.16.19980713100118.2e97b4d0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35AA35D5.A0368A41@bbtel.com> So does anyone have an interest in these since Joe has figured out what they are? The eject mechanism on them is in good shape, no gummy grease. I know the grease he's talking about as I've seen it on Mac drives eject motor and arm. Joe wrote: > At 10:39 PM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Russ Blakeman writes: > >> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > >> 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > >> and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > >> use only with the HP45849A. > > > >Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch > >display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the > >9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at > >University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > > > >-Frank McConnell > > Yeap, they're for the TS II (Touch Screen II). That's the only machine > that they'll work on. The 9123 is exactly the same as a 9122 except it > doesn't have a power supply. The DIN plug is to supply power to the drives. > BUT you can add an external power supply and then you can use them just > like regular HP 9122 drives. > > BTW ******BIG WARNING****** I have found that the double sided > drives like those used in the 9122, 9122, 9133, etc are prone to hanging up > and not raising the discs completely when you try to eject a disc. If you > force the disc out or insert a disc, you will almost certainly rip the top > head off the drive. The problem is caused by the grease that was used on > the drive machanism, it gets dry and gummy with age and binds the > mechanism. When you use those drives, watch and be certain that the drive > opens completely before removing or inserting a disk. > > Joe > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 11:32:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion on use for a couch :-) Marty wrote: > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > Marty > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > text or PDF copy. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > 20:07:43 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: Classic computers message group > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 11:35:36 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13371360252.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> His panel is not going bad - The Mac Powerbook 170 I;ve got does this when first powered on, then clears the screen - I think it's a video ram test. ------- From wanderer at bos.nl Mon Jul 13 14:22:44 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Not so many, others do have far much more than I have. My little collection: PDP 11/24 with 2 RL02's, running RSX-11M 4.0, Ultrix-11 PDP 11/34a with 3 RL01's running RSX-11M 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 PDT 11/150 running RT-11 Mac powerbook 170 HP model G40 VT100, VT520 terminal Teletype ASR33 Sun Sparc5 (cannot be declared yet as 'classic') Sun IPX (ditto) Edward From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 12:39:30 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but never anything else. > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos Is that OS actually useful for something? > 1 dell 386sx/16 minix ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 12:49:52 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA48C0.62C6@gamewood.net> Max Eskin wrote: > > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos > There was a 'D2' --- roughly equivelent to an "AT" (286) Chuck From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 12:51:06 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA490A.60C3@gamewood.net> Max Eskin wrote: > > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos And they had a couple models of 'laptops' also. Chuck From red at bears.org Mon Jul 13 12:57:14 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> Message-ID: I guess now it's my turn.. Amiga 500 (got two of those), 3000 Apollo DN4000 & DN5500 Apple ][+, //c, //gs Atari 800 Commodore VIC-20, 128, 128D Compaq Deskpro 286 Convergent Technologies NGEN systems in 186, 286, and 386 flavours IBM PCjr (I STILL can't get over what an utter piece of crap it is) Macintosh 128k, Plus, SE/30 (two of those, too), IIsi NeXTcube; NeXTstation SGI Indy (not even close to being classic) TI 99/4A TRS-80 Models III and 4P Plus the obligatory 486 (got one of the first boards, it's fairly close to being classic itself) and pentium systems, as well as the odd one or two I've forgotten. Apocrypha... back when SGI first announced the Indy in 1993 or 1994, they ran a contest to give away five machines: Why you wanted an Indy, in 25 words or less. My entry won 7th place. Oh well, I got one anyway, even though it took me an extra five years. (: ok r. From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Jul 13 13:16:57 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> Found an easy path to the info you need: 1. Access www.dell.com 2. Click on the SUPPORT wrench at the top of the home page. 3. Click on TROUBLESHOOT YOUR DELL SYSTEM 4. Now you will be prompted to HELP US IDENTIFY YOUR SYSTEM OR SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL. Under SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL click on the last choice, All Other Product Lines. 5. Under All Other Product Lines, click on 80486. 6. Now you will see 80486 highlighted in black on the left of the screen. On the right side click on the second choice from the top which is 40XX/XE and you will finally be there. The address is http://www.dell.com/support/tech/dta/4000XE/index.htm By the way, the Dell 4066/XE is a great server, very reliable and well built from my experience. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/13/98 1:09 PM Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion on use for a couch :-) Marty wrote: > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > Marty > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > text or PDF copy. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > 20:07:43 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: Classic computers message group > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul13.130904.1767.50978; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:09:04 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA24765; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:06:46 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA39788 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.crumaxmagnetics.com [206.65.217.166]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA19027 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand124.blue.net [206.65.221.124]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02327 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ Blakeman To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From buck_c at polygon.com Mon Jul 13 13:20:12 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? References: Message-ID: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> Lets see... MicroVAX 3600 running VMS (for the while) MicroVAX 3600 running NetBSD - has MicroTerm 200 and Wyse 50 terminals hooked up to it. MicroVAX II running NetBSD 3 MicroVAX II's without cases Cyrix PR-166/MMX PC running (cussword) Intel 486DX66 also running (cussword) Macintosh Plus (not working) Hopefully soon, I'll be putting two of the naked MV2's into cases, and perhaps getting a VAXstation 2000 to go along with the pile. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Jul 13 13:29:32 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might as well chime in also: Commodore: C64 (6 of these) C64C B128 C128 (3 of these) VIC-20 (8 of these) C128D (3 of these) Plus/4 (4 of these) C16 SX-64 Executive (2 of these) Amiga 1000 (2 of these) Amiga 500 Amiga 3000 Apple: Apple ][+ (2 of these) Apple //c Apple ][gs Macintosh 512k (2 of these) Macintosh FatMac Macintosh SE Macintosh SE/30 Macintosh IIsi (2 of these) Macintosh Plus (2 of these) Macintosh IIcx Macintosh IIfx (2 of these) Macintosh Centris 610 Atari: Atari 400 (3 of these) Atari 800 Atari 600XL (2 of these) Atari 800XL Atari 2600 (6 of these) Osborne: Osborne OCC1 (3 of these) Tandy/Radio Shack: TRS-80 Model 4 TRS-80 Model 12 TRS-80 Color Computer TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (2 of these) Tandy Color Computer 3 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Tandy Model 102 Portable Texas Instruments: TI 99/4A (3 of these) Magnavox: Odyssey 100 Odyssey 300 Odyssey 3000 Odyssey 4000 Odyssey 2 (3 of these) Mattel: Aquarius Digital Equipment: Gigi Timex/Sinclair: Sinclair ZX80 (my first computer) Sinclair ZX81 (2 of these) Timex/Sinclair 1000 (2 of these) Timex/Sincliar 1500 Fairchild: Fairchild Video Entertainment System Sharp: PC-1500 Pocket Computer Plus loads of peripherals (especially commodore) and software and carts and various other obscure computing devices. I've got room for more if anyone wants to trade. :) Cheers, Dan From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 13:42:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35AA54FE.DAB064C2@bbtel.com> Aha! I didn't think of using the troubleshooting since I'm not looking at repairing it, yet. Thanks. Marty wrote: > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > 1. Access www.dell.com > 2. Click on the SUPPORT wrench at the top of the home page. > 3. Click on TROUBLESHOOT YOUR DELL SYSTEM > 4. Now you will be prompted to HELP US IDENTIFY YOUR SYSTEM > OR SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL. Under SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL > click on the last choice, All Other Product Lines. > 5. Under All Other Product Lines, click on 80486. > 6. Now you will see 80486 highlighted in black on the left of the > screen. On the right side click on the second choice from the top > which is 40XX/XE and you will finally be there. > > The address is http://www.dell.com/support/tech/dta/4000XE/index.htm > By the way, the Dell 4066/XE is a great server, very reliable and well > built from my experience. > > Marty > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/13/98 1:09 PM > > Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a > > little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion > > on use for a couch :-) > > Marty wrote: > > > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > > > Marty > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > > _________________________________ > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > > text or PDF copy. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > ICQ UIN #1714857 > > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > > > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > > 20:07:43 -0700 > > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > > > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > > > > -0700 > > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > > Precedence: bulk > > From: Russ Blakeman > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-To: Classic computers message group > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul13.130904.1767.50978; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:09:04 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id KAA24765; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:06:46 -0700 > Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id JAA39788 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 > 09:32:00 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.crumaxmagnetics.com [206.65.217.166]) > by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id JAA19027 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand124.blue.net [206.65.221.124]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02327 > for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:51 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:11 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 13:43:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA5545.D8B4073A@bbtel.com> http://www.primenet.com/~fwagner/le/leading_edge.html is the link to the unofficial support page since LE is now the Dead Edge. Max Eskin wrote: > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos > > Is that OS actually useful for something? > > 1 dell 386sx/16 minix > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 13 15:58:50 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <6240@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807131903.OAA25083@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 06:32 AM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: Okay, here's what's in my "Garage" 6800/6809: 2 SwTPc 6800's (neither of which works) American Automation AA-570 Development system (6802 based) SwTPc S/09 (never fired up) SSB Chieftain 9512 (in SwTPc cabinet) CoCo III, With FDD ExorBUS KLUDGE, containing various ExorBUS compatible hardware. Commodore: VIC-20 with two 1541's and a 80-column display (broke) C-64 also with two 1541's and 80 col. C-128 with 1571 FDD (keyboard trashed) 68000: AT&T Unix PC-7300, 40Mb HD, 1Mb RAM (it's in pieces, working on an upgrade) NCR 1600 series Tower, running Unix SVR3 Other: H-89 with CP/M (also broke) Intellivision II w/computer and Music attachments (modulator broke) Mattel Aquarius (still in the box) AT least 5 Wyse Wy-50 terminals, in various states of disrepair FLUKE 1720A IEEE instrument controller (broke, waiting for prints) HP 9816 instrument controller, with external IEEE HDD/FDD. I also have an Apple ][+ and a //c, but they really don't belong to me. I'm just trying to get them into working order. I also have a array of PeeCee compatibles, and a MAC, none of which qualify for discussion here. Not alot, but I don't have a whole lot of space. Writing list was a kinda depressing excercise. Most of the good stuff's *broke* in one way shape or form. My main interest is 680x and 68000's. Jeff >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Jul 13 13:53:53 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807131906.PAA16865@charity.harvard.net> I guess I'll have a go... Following is a list of the machines that my SO and I have collected: A bunch of PDP 11 hardware (too much for me to catalog completely) 2 NeXTStation Color Turbo 1 NeXT Cube 1 Sun 386 box 1 Pentium box (running OS/2 of course) 1 Macintosh 512K 1 Macintosh IIci 1 Atari 400 2 Atari 800xl (one is parts) w/1050, 1010, 1027 printer 4 Commodore 64 (one is non-functional) w/Vic 1541, 2 Commodore 1542, and CN2 1 Commodore 128 (not working, I'm trying to repair it) 1 Timex/Sinclair 1000 1 Apple //e 1 Apple ][+ Tony Dellett From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 14:04:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Anyone do PA-RISC? (Maybe off topic...) Message-ID: <13371387344.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> NS how old this box is, but it looks about as old as my uVax3100s... Customer has an PH-UX machine, HP 715/100, and it's playing paperweight. Powers on, makes hard-disk noises when the boot switch is pressed, but doesn't talk to the console. When you push the power-off button, it makes more noise and shuts off. Something's working, but I have no console. Any ideas? This happened after someone downed it the wrong way. As I have little experience with HPs, I thought it appropriate to ask a higher authority :) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Anyone do PA-RISC? (Maybe off topic...) In-Reply-To: <13371387344.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13371388473.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> About the typo in the previous message: PH-UX was ENTIRELY UNINTENTIONAL, but So True... :) I just saw it. ------- From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:26 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: RK07and RL0x pre-checkout Message-ID: I have not yet found an operating manual for the RK07's in the group of stuff I got. I want to check them out and think I recall that they can be powered up and maybe heads loaded while not attached to the host. True? If so, anything I should know? What to look for if anything not correct? Also, the previous owner left packs *in* two of the drives :( . One probably is an all-important boot disk for the 1/34A as he told me he had booted it up the day before I picked them up. Well, I'm not too happy with this as there may be a risk that the disk got damaged during moving and transport. I can take the black sheet metal cover off the drives and check that the heads are retracted. How do I get the disk out as the disk cover seems to be locked? Will powering up and a certain keypress unlock the disk cover without the heads moving onto the platter? I'll need to do the same to the RL01's and RL02's to sort through them as to functionality. Thanks yet again for the help. Regards, Chris -- -- From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:38 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module Message-ID: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad board which I want to identify. An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped from this system. From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:11:57 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: M9312 Boot ROMS Message-ID: I have been taking inventory of the boot ROMS on the M9312 modules in several of the PDP-11's in the great haul. In the pile of documents there is an older manual for the 9312 (1978 copyright, purple/maroon cover.) Fine. I was able to determine what's what re this subject and their respective boot devices (RL01, RK07, etc.) However, I need help identifying this one found in my 11/34A: 767A9. Need the charts/boot device type for this one which show the same type data as I see in my older 9312 manual. Also, in the 11/24 I found a different E20 ROM (the console/diagnostic ROM). Its number is 774F1. The number found on all the other 9312 E20 ROMS is 248F1. Now, is this 774F1 specific to the 11/24 only? Or, is it specific to any Unibus -11/xx which has no programmers console attached to the front of the machine (the /24 just has a few switches on the front panel)? The 11/34A I'm keeping and the other two 11/34x BA11's either have, or have evidence of once having, a programmer's console attached which could be a hint that the 248F1 is simply the E20 ROM just for 11/34x machines w/prgmrs console. Thanks for helping me sort out this detail. BTW, that URL Kees Stravers posted here per my query has the most VAX 11/730 info I have found yet. It has some great info to help me get going on my uVAX II which also came to me in that haul. Again: http://vaxarchive.ml.org . Thanks Kees. I'm still looking for more 11/730 info everybody (so is Kees). Thanks for the help. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:12:17 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should be a mixture of RT and RSX. There's a boot pack labeled for the 11/24 but it will be a surprise as to which OS boots. I think there's an RK07 pack for the 11/34A and I understand from the previous owner that RSX had been the OS running on it. If there's some version dependancy involved, the RSX boot disk pack is probably 4.x and if the 11/24 pack is RT, it is *possibly* v3.x. There's an even bigger batch of 9-track tapes. ~75 or so hangin' on the tape rack. But, I think most of those could be backup tapes or development files from Moog Hydropoint machine tools (Moog made computer controlled machine tools) according to what I see in the rather cryptic contents of the labels. I gotta get the rack w/TS03 and TS11 subsystem lashed up to the 11/24 or 11/34A (whichever I get running first) to check them out. Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? Thanks again, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jul 13 13:46:19 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <199807130702.AAA10808@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: All, I have 3 count'em 3 (classic) systems: Mac Plus, Dec Rainbow 100A, NeXT Computer. I use one home non-classic and one office non-classic (both Mac PB3400) as well. And I am *not* going to be jealous of you guys with warehouses full of systems....... :-) - Mark From buck_c at polygon.com Mon Jul 13 14:25:59 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35AA5F47.520780C3@polygon.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad > board which I want to identify. > > An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge > pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped > from this system. > > >From what I see at the Emulex website Emulex is only involved w/networking > stuff. There was no C3987 mentioned anywhere. That very well could be a SCSI controller. Emulex is only into networking NOW, as they got sued several years ago by DEC for patent infrigment (lost my job because of that suit). They used to do SCSI controllers, network, communication, terminal servers, you name it. It could be a 50-port serial card. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of Emulex parts anymore. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 14:33:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131933.AA03474@world.std.com> MAX writes: < > Is that OS actually useful for something? It's unix... depending on who you ask yes or no. ;) Compared to DOS it's better, it's a real multiprocessing OS. As implmented for 386 and larger it lacks VM making some BIG unix apps like Xwindows unlikely but for text apps it screams. There is a version called minix-vm and from what I've hears runs well. MINIX plug, it's value is, sources are on line and it runs on XTs and PS/2s and the whole install with sorces fits in something like 40mb. It's limits are no VM, support for COM1/2 only and the book/CDrom cost about 70$. It is available on the net, install kits and sources. I installed it on the Dell and it was textbook easy (compared to dos!) and considering the machine is a 386sx/16 it's really quite fast. Allison From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 13 16:45:03 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <6361@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807131949.OAA25264@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 02:25 PM 7/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: > >> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >> board which I want to identify. >> >> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >> from this system. >> >> >From what I see at the Emulex website Emulex is only involved w/networking >> stuff. There was no C3987 mentioned anywhere. > >That very well could be a SCSI controller. Emulex is only into networking NOW, as they got sued >several years ago by DEC for patent infrigment (lost my job because of that suit). They used to do >SCSI controllers, network, communication, terminal servers, you name it. It could be a 50-port >serial card. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of Emulex parts anymore. Serves 'em $#%%^@& right. Emulex's support was (is) of the most suckful sort. I would never recommend any of their products to anybody (forget about getting any kind of support or end-of-life info from these #&@*^$* people). They used to make decent PeeCee video boards. Ohhhh, damn-- don't get me started . . . . Jeff From rax at warbaby.com Mon Jul 13 16:01:01 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980713101351.00922100@netpath.net> References: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Not as many as you big iron guys, nothing terribly exotic - just a bunch of early home computers: 3 - Apple ][ 2 - Apple IIgs 1 - Mac Portable 2 - Mac 512 1 - Kaypro 1 - Osborne Executive 1 - IBM PC XT 3 - TI 99 2 - Atari 400 1 - Atari 800 1 - TRS80 1 - Coleco Adam 3 - Commodore PET 4 - Commodore Plus 4 4 - Commodore VIC20 75 - C-64 (Go ahead, laugh now - but just you wait til I get them hooked up in parallel and have the worlds first C-64 supercomputer...) Many boxes of peripheral junk - tape drives, modems, printers, etc. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 14:57:56 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980713195756.8114.qmail@hotmail.com> Are you sure about that first one? I tried to install it on a PS/2 Model 70 and it didn't recognize the hard drive. In general, i've found Minix to be simply awful with recognizing hard drives. >MINIX plug, it's value is, sources are on line and it runs on XTs and >PS/2s and the whole install with sorces fits in something like 40mb. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 13 14:10:40 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: G40 ? Re: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980713141040.5a8f0732@intellistar.net> At 07:22 PM 7/13/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > >Not so many, others do have far much more than I have. > >My little collection: > >PDP 11/24 with 2 RL02's, running RSX-11M 4.0, Ultrix-11 >PDP 11/34a with 3 RL01's running RSX-11M 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 >PDT 11/150 running RT-11 >Mac powerbook 170 >HP model G40 What's a G40? Never heard of one. Joe From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Jul 13 15:20:14 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: System V 3.2 manuals Message-ID: <199807132020.NAA19014@goodnet.com> I have several System V 3.2 manuals (not going to list all the titles here but suffice it to say a 6" high stack). They are still in the shrinkwrap. Free to good home if you pay shipping or pick up in Phoenix, AZ - I don't have any machines that run that, nor do I intend to.... -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * emusic * OO * Khoros * sci fi * 808 State * VRML * Gravis Ultrasound * From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Jul 13 15:40:50 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I bought and need one badly :) Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/5931803f/attachment.bin From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 16:02:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> < Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the < PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should b < a mixture of RT and RSX. Yes, but there are tools to got from rt to rsx, maybe the other way as well. < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? Yes. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 16:02:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807132102.AA22259@world.std.com> Howmnay: I have to edit my list as I'd forgotten the TRS80 16k/LII and the COCO3/4. Too many! Allison From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 16:12:07 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <199807132102.AA22259@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35AA7827.3302@gamewood.net> Allison J Parent wrote: > > Howmnay: > > I have to edit my list as I'd forgotten the TRS80 16k/LII and the COCO3/4. > > Too many! > > Allison Wheredidyougeta 4 ?? Chuck From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:39:29 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980713213929.24327.qmail@hotmail.com> What is a fatMac??? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 13 17:08:01 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 13:20) References: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> Message-ID: <9807132308.ZM6970@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and I always find it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you count half a dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two keyboards and one PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the orignal case or PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other boards, but only a few cabinets. This is roughly what's running/runnable: Acorn Archimedes A440, serial no 614 + Arm3 processor a a lot of extras Acorn Archimedes A310, serial no 2. BBC Microcomputer Model B (about 2.5 of these) BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus Torch Z80 Card x 2 Acorn Z80 Acorn 6502 Acorn Electron Acorn Atom Apple ][+ Apple //e Apple Mac Plus x 2 Sharp MZ80K Atari MegaST Exidy Sorcerer Commodore PET 2001-8K Commodore 128 (US version) Commodore VIC-20 Amiga 500 (well, half of one, anyway) homebrew Z8 SBC Sinclair ZX81 Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum 48K Sinclair QL (plus a dead one) Sparcstation 1+ Silicon Graphics Indy R4600SC XT-compatible AT-compatible 486SX-25 486DX2-66 386sx-20 portable 286 Compaq LTE 11/23 x 2 11/03 x 2 11/34 11/24 (only the board set, though) 11/73 x 2 ?PDP-11/83 microVax II uMicro 2000 (a 68000 system and a lot of spare boards) Sage II (another 68000) Cambridge Z88 Psion Organiser AgendA and, of course, a whole lot of peripherals. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 12:40:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 12, 98 08:20:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/2891d927/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 12:48:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 12, 98 10:58:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1277 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/22e99ff6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 13:04:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807131315.NAA03678@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 09:13:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/869e347f/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 18:13:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807132313.AA12558@world.std.com> < Are you sure about that first one? I tried to install it on a PS/2 Model < 70 and it didn't recognize the hard drive. In general, i've found Minix < to be simply awful with recognizing hard drives. I got it up and running on a PS/2m50z with a 20mb mfm drive. Minix is not awful with recognizing hard drives, it doesn't claim to support all of them. If you want you can put dos on the m70 and then install the version ported to load and run as under dos as a virtual disk. That works on everything that is running dos. While not fancy it's enough to play with and to keep it small (its a test version) the sources are not on it though they can be copied easily enough. Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Jul 13 19:32:17 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 05:02:37 pm Message-ID: <199807140032.UAA16076@shell.monmouth.com> > > > < Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the > < PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should b > < a mixture of RT and RSX. > > Yes, but there are tools to got from rt to rsx, maybe the other way as > well. > > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? > > Yes. > > Allison > > I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:40:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: RK07and RL0x pre-checkout In-Reply-To: from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 03:10:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/c394538c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:46:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 13, 98 04:40:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/2e117f99/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:47:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "Rax" at Jul 13, 98 01:01:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 245 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/86892219/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:48:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 05:02:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/ec959297/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 19:00:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 13, 98 01:57:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/4175aff8/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 19:49:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I >bought and need one badly :) I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe that has most of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 19:49:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980714004929.19462.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I think that the default lack of floppy drive was a mistake, as was the lack of RAM. I'm not sure what year it is, but I believe 640K was standard by then. Also, I have the Getting Started manual for the PCjr. It's supposed to be a technical reference with specs, and details on how to prepare it for shipping (like in the IBM PC manual of the same name), but instead it has childish junk on how to use cursor keys (it has a little cartridge game called the keyboard adventure, with a little guy that can move around). Techinicians reeely don't like that. >Apart from the IR keyboard, which was a mistake ;-), it's basically a PC >without the DMA chip, but with better-than-CGA graphics. What's wrong >with it? > >In some ways the lack of a DMA chip is a good thing. There are the right >signals on the expansion bus to add one, with the result that an >expansion module can take over the bus. The PC bus doesn't allow that. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 13 19:51:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a > number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, > document everything, and write a repair manual.... I would love to help with this effort as I'm very good with my hands and the whole point of starting this thread was to guage the practicality of home hard drive repair, but currently I wouldn't have the time to embark on such an endeavor, although at some point I will. I hope that whatever tricks I'm able to pioneer with respect to hard drive repair will be passed on in FAQs. I've already noted the discussions on building a clean box and at some point will be creating one. QUESTION: Is there a way to determine just how clean such a clean box is after its built? Is there some meter that can be hooked-up to the exhaust opening that will give you a particulate count? My Panasonic vacuum cleaner has such a detector that triggers a dual-color LED on the front panel: it lights red if it detects dirt particles passing through the hose and green if the particle count is below some threshold. > Yep, this is an interesting thread for me... Me too! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 13 19:56:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > >bought and need one badly :) > > I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe that has most > of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. Hasn't anybody heard of bookmarks? :-) http://nic.funet.fi/pub/cbm/index.html -- Doug From KFergason at aol.com Mon Jul 13 19:57:02 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <483b86b8.35aaacdf@aol.com> The MSD drives were perhaps the first 1541 clones, though I am not positive of that. They were not complete compatible, so copy protected software probably would not work. I didn't realize they required a dongle. Hmm, how many computers. HP Pentium 300. Sparc LX 486/33 clone SWTPC 6800 systems (2) RCA Cosmac VIP (3) Commodore C128 (2) Commodore C128D Commodore 64 (a dozen or so) Commodore +4 (2) Commodore SuperPet Commodore Vic 20 Timex Sinclair 1000 Atari 400 (2) Atari 800 Atari 600xl Atari 800xl Atari 1040ST Atari 2600 Apple 2e Apple 2c Apple 2gs Macintosh + Macintosh 512 TRS80 Model 3 (2) TRS80 Model 4 TRS80 Model 4p Tandy Coco 2 Tandy Coco 3 TI 99/4a (3) Most work. Kelly In a message dated 7/13/98 9:16:24 AM Central Daylight Time, higginbo@netpath.net writes: > >What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... > >>Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem > > Well, I can't tell you who made it, but it's a little tower with two 5.25" > drives mounted vertically, and requires a dongle on one of the joystick > ports to work. I haven't even cranked it up yet to compare the performance > to the C 15xx series drives. I think the model number is MSD-2. The MSD-1 > was a single drive unit. > > I have all the docs and disks that came with it, so when I ever do get it > cranked up, I'll post the specifics. > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 20:07:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807132308.ZM6970@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 13:20) Message-ID: >Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and I always find >it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you count half a >dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two keyboards and one >PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the orignal case or >PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other boards, but only >a few cabinets. Well, just tell 'em what I do. I've got about 70 computers (See the web page if you want the list, I'm not typing them all in :^) ), not counting duplicates/spares. However, I do count such things as a "Beige Mac Plus" and a "Platinum Mac Plus" separatly, despite the fact the only real difference is the colour of the case (well, in this case the keyboards also). Still I think the only systems that fall into that catagory are the Mac Plus, TI-99/4a, and A1200(HD). Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For example I've got a Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of thing, basically a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From gene at ehrich.com Mon Jul 13 20:18:34 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z In-Reply-To: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Message-ID: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 It came with only one hard drive. 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. Gene ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 20:19:36 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980713211802.00687ba4@netpath.net> What's even neater is the fact that the dongle is nothing more than a carved block of wood hollowed out. Inside buried in epoxy, is one diode connected to two pins of the joystick port. Definitely cool. :) At 08:57 PM 7/13/98 EDT, KFergason@aol.com wrote: > >The MSD drives were perhaps the first 1541 clones, though I am not positive of >that. >They were not complete compatible, so copy protected software probably would >not work. > >I didn't realize they required a dongle. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From gene at ehrich.com Mon Jul 13 20:21:18 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 In-Reply-To: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Message-ID: <199807140118.SAA17181@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat like an Apple II. Thanx ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:25:02 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual References: Message-ID: <35AAB36E.E494EE4A@bbtel.com> ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > bought and need one badly :) > > I beleive the commodore schematics are on an ftp site somewhere > (ftp.funet.fi????). I have the C128 service manual but it's only the > schematics and parts lists and doesn't contain any step-by-step > diagnostics, alas. > > > > > Tony > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:28:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: Message-ID: <35AAB458.9BF5C7AC@bbtel.com> Some of what you wrote I understand especially IEEE 488, which I knew to be HP-IB after working with HP 1000's and support equipment for testing air launched cruise missiles. The specific HP model stuff is greek to me and I haven't opened them (and probably won't) as I have no equipment to test them. Someone has expressed an interest in the 2 units so we'll see how that goes. Appreciate the information, helps greatly as well as backsup the previous info I was sent. Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > > use only with the HP45849A. They're both complete and like new but I > > have no equipment to test them with. I know HP stuff is expensive even > > when used and these aren't all that old by their looks and styling so > > they should make some HP owner very happy. I have no use for them but > > yet I would hate to dismantle them or dump them. > > > > Anyone know what these are exactly and would anyone be interested in the > > wo of them, maybe a trade or something? > > This is the floppy drive for the HP150-II (aka Touchscreen II) machine. > > Inside there's a controller board containing (I believe) a 6809 > processor, HPIB chip, floppy controller, etc and a pair of Sony > double-sided floppy drives. > > The 24 pin connector is HPIB (aka IEEE488), and it uses the SS/80 command > set, I think. The 5 pin DIN plug is the power input (ground, +5V, +12V) > from the HP150-II power supply. I've got the pinouts if anyone wants to > try it with another HP machine. > > Logically it acts the same as a 9122, I think. Electronically the > circuitry is quite different. > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:36:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Another excess item Message-ID: <35AAB61C.9D39582A@bbtel.com> I've posted this before but the list occupants change so I'll see if I can find a home again for it. Everytime I go to rework it to a CGA/EGA cable I think that there's someone out there with a crap mono monitor on a PCjr that would love to have an original PCJr Color Display. It's in great shape and I don't have a Jr and haven't messed with one since college a thousand years ago. If anyone might be interested in negociating a fair trade of cash or PC items that I can use in other machines drop me a note. PC Enterprises is one of the few sources that still has "refurbished" PCJr Color Displays and they want an outrageous $189 or so for one. I'd like to slap anyone that would pay that in this stage of the Jr's... Contact me direct if interested. BTW....If anyone may be intertested in the Visual 102 with keyboard for FREE (you pay the shipping) it's now LAST CALL before I strip the goodies out of it and send it to computer and terminal heaven. Contact me soon. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Jul 13 20:47:17 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT In-Reply-To: <19980712201029.23911.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807140147.LAA19640@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 01:10 PM 12-07-98 -0700, Max Eskin wrote: >I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >little feet supporting it. The Borg Cube PC :-) I'd like one as it would make a change from the boring standard PC looking boxes in my computer room (err, office). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 20:35:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714004929.19462.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 13, 98 05:49:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/21ec351f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 20:39:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 13, 98 05:51:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/61ec710e/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Mon Jul 13 22:06:03 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: from "Rax" at Jul 13, 98 01:01:01 pm Message-ID: >> 75 - C-64 (Go ahead, laugh now - but just you wait til I get them hooked up >> in parallel and have the worlds first C-64 supercomputer...) > >I thought _I_ was the crazy one with 12 or so PDP11s and 4 PERQs, but >_75_ C64s???? Why???? > >-tony Got 'em all as a lot at an auction, along with several boxes of peripherals and other junk, for 75 bucks. How could I pass up a deal like that? Now all I need to build that Commodore Supercomputer is another 68 power supplies... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 20:56:10 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980713215605.00695138@netpath.net> If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on the nose? You get the picture... :) At 11:47 AM 7/14/98 +1000, Huw Davies wrote: >At 01:10 PM 12-07-98 -0700, Max Eskin wrote: >>I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >>I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >>black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >>little feet supporting it. > >The Borg Cube PC :-) > >I'd like one as it would make a change from the boring standard PC looking >boxes in my computer room (err, office). > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From wpe at interserv.com Mon Jul 13 20:58:05 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z References: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AABB2D.3D7CA56E@interserv.com> Sorry, that was not the PS2, that was the On-Site unit... Ny apologies for any confusion... Will Gene Ehrich wrote: > > At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 > > It came with only one hard drive. > > 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. > > Gene > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > gene@ehrich.com > Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 > ------------------------------------------------------ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jul 13 20:58:55 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <3f953755.35aabb60@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-13 21:22:26 EDT, you write: << Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat like an Apple II. >> this machine is essentially an apple //c compatible. the keyboard sucks, but has the same function as a //c. the machine also has an expansion slot on the left to which an apple card can plug into, although it was not designed for it. i once ran a disk controller card in it without problems. make sure you get the power supply. ive been told the //c ps was equivalent though. the machine supposedly was 99% apple compatible which was true since i never could connect to aol when they still supported apple. i had to borrow a friend's //c to logon. david From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 21:04:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z References: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AABCCA.5CCF7524@bbtel.com> READ ALL ABOUT IT! http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/8550z.html Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 > > It came with only one hard drive. > > 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. > > Gene > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > gene@ehrich.com > Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 > ------------------------------------------------------ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 21:14:09 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <199807140214.TAA09213@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called > >Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand >that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat >like an Apple II. It's an Apple IIc clone, and very similar to it. It has one Apple II compatible slot on the left side. Laser was the only company which actually made legal Apple II clones and withstood Apple's lawyers. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 21:17:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Compaq memory needed Message-ID: <35AABFD3.4B280627@bbtel.com> Need at least one SIMM memory for a Compaq 286SLT notebook/laptop in either 1, 2 or 4 mb. These are special types that plug in and have the card edge plug to one side. Direct email if you may have something. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Jul 13 21:20:26 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807140220.MAA19949@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> I'm not sure I want to do this, as I'll only confirm that I'm collecting too much. Fortunately, most of my hardware is stored at work as the store room here is bigger than my house.... At home: Osborne I (1 floppy dead) S100 bus system (in bits, I'm still building the case/power supply from new parts) Apple IIc (in bits) Mac IIcx (not quite classic but runs A/UX) Microbee Various HP calculators (25, 67, 35) At work: uVAX-II uVAX-III 2x DECmateII DECmateIII 3x Pro350 2x Pro380 PDP-11/83 VAX6230 with Unibus expansion VAX6330 Assorted Star Couplers, HSC70s, SDI cables and disks for VAX systems 2x VAXstation 4000VLC VAXstation 3100/38 VAXstation 3100/76 IBM RS/6000 model 320 (not really classic) SGI Crimson (not classic apart from colour :-) A number of IBM x-terminals I think I'd better stop now.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 21:38:22 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. >Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on >the nose? You get the picture... :) I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:07:33 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <001401bdaed4$8dbe4a40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Yeah, but I not a big fan of the MacOS; and since i can download a more updated OS version, I figured i might as well give it a shot. experimentation is the best part :) From: Hans Franke >On all 68LC040 Macs you just need to exchange it with >an 68040 to get the MathCo. Just check the frequency. > >But using a 636 for NetBSD isn't a good idea - any >486-PC will give the same or better performance - but >while using Mac OS 8 the 63x are just fine machines. Yeah, it runs pretty well w/ 52mb of ram, although i can think of better places to put it.... >P.S.: don't forget the memory update - the 63x Macs >can use 36 or 52 MB of Mem, depending on the mobo >revision. If you have 1 SIMM slot, add a 32MB module, >if there are two slots, use a 16 MB modul in the outhermost >and a 32 in the innermost slot. From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:15:39 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT's IDENTITY. Message-ID: <004501bdaed5$af0d6680$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> It's called the "Rock City", by the Panda Project. www.rockcity.net, and www.pandaproject.com pretty cool and reasonably cheap machine; they have a new Dec Alpha 533 box. wireless keyboard, LCD display, etc. sorry for the off topic reply :) -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 3:10 PM Subject: fake NeXT >I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular >PC. Next to it, it had an LCD panel and keyboard. The case was much >uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a >cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought >you people might be interested. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:21:22 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <006401bdaed6$7b143c40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Well, the computer repair company I worked for used to do alot of LCD and laptop repair. Alot of times the lines are either easy to fix problems w/ cables and little wire connectors, and other times they are just on their way out ( i repaired servers and desktops so I never got to dabble :/ ) in any case, a good place that does *VERY* reasonable LCD and laptop repair is Matrix International, which i believe is www.matrixintl.com, or... I've forgotten the phone #, but they are in Austin TX. they used to do flat rate LCD repair for us for 125 a system. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, July 11, 1998 10:39 PM Subject: LCD repair >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > >I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy >the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > >-- Doug > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17527@world.std.com> < What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a < number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, < document everything, and write a repair manual.... Either that or I have to trouble shoot the two maxtor2190s(rd54) I have with seek spindown death. I know it's not a HDA problem as I opened them and watch the gyrations. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17592@world.std.com> < > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? < > < > Yes. < < I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. Bill, you just got the good memory award. ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:36 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17675@world.std.com> < Well, I think that the default lack of floppy drive was a mistake, as No it was still costly. < was the lack of RAM. I'm not sure what year it is, but I believe 640K < was standard by then. Also, I have the Getting Started manual for the That would be a few years later. < >Apart from the IR keyboard, which was a mistake ;-), it's basically a < PC < >without the DMA chip, but with better-than-CGA graphics. What's wrong < >with it? Since the average XT PC doesn't use DMA very intelligently anyway it was not much loss. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17790@world.std.com> < > What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a < > number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, < > document everything, and write a repair manual.... To date I've successfuly opened and fixed maxtor2190s and Micropolus 1325s wit HDA difficulties. I've run a RD52 with the cover off as a demonstration and I have somewhere a 16 year old st506 with a lexan topcover for viewing. It all boils down to what was the failure and is it fixable. The latter can be hard as platter assemblies and generally "glued and screwed" and tend to be hard to get apart. Heads are small fine things easily broken. If the media is scared it's a total as the metal will be everywhere and some fo the metal like the head cantelever is steel so all that steel dust is now in the magnet assembly for the positioner... Not impossible but there is a certain amount of pick and choose in which one to fix. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 13 22:34:38 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 In-Reply-To: <199807140118.SAA17181@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called > > Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand > that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat > like an Apple II. People should do a quick web search before asking these sorts of questions, which we get asked over and over and over (I think this is the 5th time this year someone has asked what a Laser 128 is). There are plentiful resources on the web to answer these sorts of queries. The Laser 128 is an Apple //e,c clone. It will run just about any Apple II software. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 23:16:59 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black magic marker. I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a market for it? I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in wood. :) Is this off-topic? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 13 23:26:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might > make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a > market for it? You're crazy, paint and plastic don't mix. But a chrome-plated Mac might be cool. Or take your case and make your own mold: cast aluminum Macs, ceramic Macs -- that's the ticket! -- Doug From bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 14 07:54:27 1998 From: bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807140957.EAA16437@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> My first chance to boast of: California Computer Systems S-100 KayPro II NorthStar Horizon w/ Televideo 912 NorthStar Advantage 8/16 (very dead) VIC 20 Apple II+ Apple IIc Apple IIe IBM PC IBM PC XT IBM PC AT IBM PC Jr. Apple Lisa 2 Radio Shack CoCo ProcTech SOL-20 Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 14 07:44:16 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another motherboard revision ? > Torch Z80 Card x 2 ?? same here. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:44:44 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: Message-ID: <35AB44AC.8C8C249F@bbtel.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might > > make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a > > market for it? > > You're crazy, paint and plastic don't mix. But a chrome-plated Mac might > be cool. Or take your case and make your own mold: cast aluminum Macs, > ceramic Macs -- that's the ticket! Dependant upon the base of the paint, it most certainly will. I've had to rework some less collectable machines and repainted them with paints that have toluene, acetone and xylene base, satin finish, availabel at Walmarts as "fashion satin" paints. Of course there's a certain touch to it to get a decent finish and you have to ruff up the finish properly. I've had people want black finish PS/2's and they are "looking good" especially with a black keyboard and monitor and a charcoal grey mouse. The other suggestons you have are kind of a thought too though, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to cut a mold for a ceramic case -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:50:00 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AB45E8.4039C563@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint > something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product > for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor > once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, > but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black > magic marker. Use paints that have glue type solvents, ones with toluene, acetone and xylene that will melt into the finsih below and/or plastic and bond after sanding with 400 sandpaper, works great. Like I said in the other message the "fashion satin" paint they have at Walmart works exceptionally well and comes in beige, light and dark grey and black. I keep a can of white too but rarely need it except for an occasional monitor blemish. After it dries overnight (esp black) clean it down with a sponge and then dry it off and the excess dust of overspray will be gone, just like a factory finish. > I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble > cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in > wood. :) That might be kinda neat looking. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:52:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: <006401bdaed6$7b143c40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: <35AB4660.6904D485@bbtel.com> We all might as well dabble in LCD repair and technology since it seems the next generation of monitors are flat screen without a CRT made up of LCD panels, and will be classics someday soon. Poesie wrote: > Well, the computer repair company I worked for used to do alot of LCD and > laptop repair. Alot of times the lines are either easy to fix problems w/ > cables and little wire connectors, and other times they are just on their > way out ( i repaired servers and desktops so I never got to dabble :/ ) in > any case, a good place that does *VERY* reasonable LCD and laptop repair is > Matrix International, which i believe is www.matrixintl.com, or... I've > forgotten the phone #, but they are in Austin TX. they used to do flat rate > LCD repair for us for 125 a system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Saturday, July 11, 1998 10:39 PM > Subject: LCD repair > > >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > >place). > > > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > > > >I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy > >the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > > > >-- Doug > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:53:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <35AB46B5.528A94BA@bbtel.com> Cleaning is best with denatured alcohol prior to painting, it doesn't eat the plastic or old paint and gets all the old foriegn stuff off well. Tom Owad wrote: > >If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. > >Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > >the nose? You get the picture... :) > > I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > Tom Owad > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 14 09:10:43 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <199807141156.NAA06153@marina.fth.sbs.de> Russ Blakeman: > blindpete@stratos.net wrote: >> I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >> versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. >> The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >> there was a windows whith out a version number. >> The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >> it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. >> I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >> worked whith speech. > Dos 1.25 is the earliest version for general distributuion, previous versions > were too buggy, same as DOS 2.0, the 2.11 was the distribution standard when > double sided drives came out. Nop. There have been at least 2 major public releases other than 1.25. 1.0 and 1.1. 1.0 was the first public release for the IBM PC and 1.1 added new disk types. 1.1 and 1.25 are almost identical - 1.1 was the IBM version, 1.25 the OEM version. If you're searching old versions (maybe prior to 1.25) you should look for things like Z-DOS (Zenith), 86-DOS (back licensed MS-DOS to Seatle Computer products), SB-86 (Lifeboat Associates) or COMPAQ-DOS (guess who :). Maybe a bunch of other names I don't recall right now, since MS licenced it to any 8088/8086 computer manufacturer available. DOS 1.x was still machine dependant, since the BIOS had to met the hardware. DOS 2.0 and up added new disk types and loadabel device driver. With 2.0 Microsoft tried to establish their own trademark MS-DOS as OS and scraped all OEM licences or at least tried to cut of the different names. After 2.0 only IBM kept the private name of PC DOS. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 08:14:34 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980713213929.24327.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Michael Sheflin" at Jul 13, 98 02:39:29 pm Message-ID: <199807141314.JAA22289@user2.infinet.com> > > What is a fatMac??? > IIRC, back in the early days, there was just The Mac, at 128K. When the new 512K Mac was introduced, it was nicknamed the Fat Mac (and the original was called the Skinny Mac). -ethan From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:38:33 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29242@charity.harvard.net> Thanks, this helps greatly! Now to find parts... Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 8:56 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: C128 Service Manual > > > On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > >bought and need one badly :) > > > > I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe > that has most > > of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. > > Hasn't anybody heard of bookmarks? :-) > http://nic.funet.fi/pub/cbm/index.html > > -- Doug > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:34:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29245@charity.harvard.net> D'oh! I downloaded the schematics and am trying to figure out what's up with this thing. Strange thing is the part marked Funt. ROM (U 36 I think) is empty! I'm wondering if this is supposed to be the case. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 7:46 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: C128 Service Manual > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > bought and need one badly :) > > I beleive the commodore schematics are on an ftp site somewhere > (ftp.funet.fi????). I have the C128 service manual but it's only the > schematics and parts lists and doesn't contain any step-by-step > diagnostics, alas. > > > > > Tony > > -tony > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:40:35 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29252@charity.harvard.net> Actually, there is a little known difference on the power supply board between a beige Mac plus and a Platinum Mac Plus. Just a diode but boy oh boy did it cause havoc when installing a certain CPU accelerator board made by now defunct MacMemory. Mommy! I let the magic smoke out! Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:08 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > > >Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and > I always find > >it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you > count half a > >dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two > keyboards and one > >PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the > orignal case or > >PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other > boards, but only > >a few cabinets. > > Well, just tell 'em what I do. I've got about 70 computers > (See the web > page if you want the list, I'm not typing them all in :^) ), > not counting > duplicates/spares. However, I do count such things as a > "Beige Mac Plus" > and a "Platinum Mac Plus" separatly, despite the fact the only real > difference is the colour of the case (well, in this case the keyboards > also). Still I think the only systems that fall into that > catagory are the > Mac Plus, TI-99/4a, and A1200(HD). > > Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For > example I've got a > Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of > thing, basically > a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From wanderer at bos.nl Tue Jul 14 10:59:32 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: 40 ? Re: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AB8064.36AA@bos.nl> > What's a G40? Never heard of one. It's an HP 9000/800 model G40. A box measuring 40cm by 40cm by 50cm deep, and it has a 40Mhz processor. Ed From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 09:20:35 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807141423.OAA11737@cyber2.servtech.com> At 17:51 13-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a >> number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, >> document everything, and write a repair manual.... > >I would love to help with this effort as I'm very good with my hands and >the whole point of starting this thread was to guage the practicality of >home hard drive repair, but currently I wouldn't have the time to embark >on such an endeavor, although at some point I will. I hope that whatever >tricks I'm able to pioneer with respect to hard drive repair will be >passed on in FAQs. Good! We'll be watching, Sam! :-) > >I've already noted the discussions on building a clean box and at some >point will be creating one. QUESTION: Is there a way to determine just >how clean such a clean box is after its built? Is there some meter that >can be hooked-up to the exhaust opening that will give you a particulate Yes there is a device used to count particles in the air. But you may not like the cost of them. My job involves work in our Class 10,000 cleanroom at my place of employment. A few of you others out there either once had or now work in such a company that has cleanroom(s), or possibly had spent time in a cleanroom as a service person. I can give a brief primer on how a cleanroom is built and short definition of the federal standard of cleanroom classes if some of you are interested. That would give a picture of the environment within which the drives had been manufactured and what one would do to make a simple one for his/her use. We make linear encoders of which the finest line size of the ronchi ruling on the encoder substrate is 4 microns (157.48 millionths of an inch.) Figure one micron = 39.37 millionths of an inch (0.00003937"). Most dust particles in 'free air' (the air we normally live in and breathe everyday) are in the 0.5 to 10 micron range. Therefore, keeping the air _clean_ during the manufacturing process has benefited us extremely well. Of course, semiconductor manufacturers fabricate microprocessors, transistors, all other IC's in cleanroom environments. Those hokey Intel TV advertisements with cleanroom workers in full body suits are actually not far off the mark with regard to the actual need to keep a class 10 or 100 cleanroom clean when making chips with sub-micron features. I had purchased a particle counter at work to check the "cleanness" of the air in various zones in the cleanroom. These machines are somewhat complicated though the basic concept used for counting particles is not. Most particle counters are sensitive. The one I bought is able to "see", therefore count, a *single* particle as small as 0.5 micron. Our unit has similar specifications as other typical brands of particle counters but it still cost us a little over US$10,000. Used equipment dealers have them for less but it's still not reasonable for the hobbyist or even a very small business. Maintenace parts and calibration is also a bit high. BTW, the air quality in most areas of our cleanroom stays at less than 100 particles per cubic foot. Very clean when considering that outside air which is relatively clean (say, the proverbial fresh mountain air) has 100,000 to 500,000 particles per cu. foot -more with forest fires, etc. nearby. If I do decide to tinker with some of my dead hard drives, I plan to bring them to the plant some weekend and have at it :-) I'll just slip on a boufont (sp.?) cap as a hair cover, special gloves, my lab coat and maybe a face mask of some sort, setup at an empty table and away I go! >count? My Panasonic vacuum cleaner has such a detector that triggers a >dual-color LED on the front panel: it lights red if it detects dirt >particles passing through the hose and green if the particle count is >below some threshold. This is an extremely simplified version of a particle counter. I can envision it as having a simple LED emitter, probably IR, on one side of the hose and a photodetector on the opposite side. The detector and the analog front end may be rather sensitive to differentiate minute changes in light intensity. When significant amounts of dust and crap are sucked thru the hose the light is slightly occluded whichs lowers the output of the photodetector which then trips the circuit driving the red LED on your Panasonic vac. This is much too coarse of a device to measure air quality in any home-built glovebox/cleanroom any of us may build. It serves to show the homeowner that the Panasonic company's wonderful Model Such-and-Such is doing a great job at cleaning their house. Pure marketing gimmick but kinda neat on a home vac anyway IMO. > >> Yep, this is an interesting thread for me... > >Me too! Thanks for starting the discussion Sam, as a few of us who have the resources will need to get into it in the future -if not now. I can offer additional ideas and advice from my own cleanroom experience to the group on setting up a work area using either homemade or used commercial "clean benches", etc. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 09:28:58 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 13, 98 01:20:12 pm Message-ID: <199807141428.KAA23389@user2.infinet.com> Well, here goes: (Exact quantities not listed, but ranging from 1 to some, depending on the model) 6502 PET 2001 (32k), 8032 (w/D9060 and D9090 hard disk) VIC-20 C-64 SX-64 (one with w/1.3" IDE hard disk!) SYM-1 (recent aquisition, not yet powered on) 68000 Amiga 1000, 500, 2000, 2000 tower, A3000, A4000, CD-32 Perkin-Elmer 7380 (SYSIII UNIX) Motorola Trainer (SBC 4Mhz 68K + 32K DRAM) Software Results Corp. "Node" (prototypes for a WAN router, from former job) Software Results Corp. "ASP" (pocket-sized ASYNC<->SYNC protocol converter w/68008, ROM, RAM, Z8530 SIO, from former job) Mac 512Ke (800K floppy), Mac Plus, Mac SE, SE/30. 1802 Elf (self-built) and COSMAC VIP. Sun 3/60, SPARC1, SPARC2, IPX, IPC, LX. VAX 8200, uVAXII, UVAXI, 11/730, 11/750, uVAX2000 PDP-11 11/34a, 11/24, 11/03, 11/23, MINC-11, 11/23+, DATARAM (3rd party Qbus box with 8" floppy (not real RX01) and Dilog DQ614 + MFM disk emulating RL02), 11/05, 11/20 parts, 11/70 (coming soon), 11/04, PRO-350, PRO-380 PDP-8 -8, -8/L, -8/i, -8/e, -8/a, DECmate I, DECmate II, DECmate III (don't have any examples of -8/S or WT78) Z-80 Z-80 Starter Kit (new aquisition, not yet powered on). Video games Sega Genesis (68000), Odyssey 1 (analog), Gorf (arcade, stand-up, Z-80). And, last but least, PeeCee Cloans Zenith XT portable (used as a portable terminal), Commodore PC-10 (used as a ROM/PAL burner), IBM 5150 PC (running a 68000 hardware tracer/debugger), 2-slot 486 (2" tall chassis, running as a Linux router for cable modem), P133 (Linux/W95/NT), P90, 486SLC (souped-up 386), numerous 486 motherboards. On the network (10BaseFL/10Base2/10BaseT) are a WebRamp (dial-in/dial-out router), two Amigas, two SPARCs, the PC-10 (ROM burner) and two Pentia. If I could get an ethernet adapter for a C-64, I'd do it. In case this sounds like a little much, I do make my own peripherals - I used to manufacture an intelligent serial card for VAXen and PDP-11's (The COMBOARD(R), 68000 based, with DMA interface to Qbus/Unibus/VAXBI), and do still make a board for the Amiga, the GG2 Bus+, that lets you stick ISA peripherals in your Amiga (Ethernet, IDE disk, 8250/16550 serial and printer). Much of the big iron is related to current and former manufacturing and testing. Last week, I bought a worthy place to store/display the collection - a spot of land at the edge of town (Columbus, OH), with a house and a 1500 sq. ft. quonset hut. The museum opens in 1999. Stay tuned for announcements. -ethan I was going to name the museum the Society for Historical Infomation Technology, but thought better of it. ;-) The Foundation for Ubiquitous Computer Knowledge is right out. From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 09:36:29 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807141438.OAA12157@cyber2.servtech.com> At 02:39 14-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: --snip-- >I believe something like this does exist. A Kennedy winchester service >manual mentions a plugged hole on the HDA cover as being a port for a >particle counter which you use to tell you when to change the breather >filter. This port allows one to check performance of the HEPA filter in the air moving system. >I don't know how it works. For high particle counts (like your vacuum >cleaner), I would guess you could use light scattering. I can't believe >that would work at class 100 levels, though. Light scattering is how most particle counters work and indeed they are sensitive in the range below class 10. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 10:01:36 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980714150136.26610.qmail@hotmail.com> Why not use a radioisotope and a metal plate, like in a smoke detector? I think the element could be removed from the smoke detector and wired into a different circuit that triggers on dust. > >I don't know how it works. For high particle counts (like your vacuum >cleaner), I would guess you could use light scattering. I can't believe >that would work at class 100 levels, though. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net Tue Jul 14 10:01:44 1998 From: tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net (tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: how many computers? Message-ID: <199807141501.LAA06845@web03.globecomm.net> I suppose I'll chime in with my small collection: Apple ][+ clone (label says "Tel-Com", the keys have CP/M, MBASIC, and other commands silkscreened onto them) Apple Lisa 1 Apple Lisa 2/10 DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) Osborne 1 Epson QX-16 (seeking more, as always...) Other stuff: Televideo 950 terminal Power Macintosh 6100/66 (maybe as one of the first powermacs it will have some historical significance someday. Contains a 486 DOS card.) Generic 586 PeeCee (yawn) This account is used so mailing lists don't clutter up Tom's real account. If you really want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 10:24:55 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: how many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141501.LAA06845@web03.globecomm.net> from "tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net" at Jul 14, 98 11:01:44 am Message-ID: <199807141524.LAA24319@user2.infinet.com> > > I suppose I'll chime in with my small collection: > > Apple ][+ clone... Ack! I forgot to mention my Apple ][+ (and NextSlab) on my previous post. Perhaps it's a form of Jobs Repression? > DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest to resurrect the product. -ethan From red at bears.org Tue Jul 14 10:44:07 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remmeber it was supposed to be a _home_ computer. At the time very few > home computers came with floppy drives. > > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? Dunno, mine's got an IBM 360k drive in it. My biggest complaints about are the 'sidecar' expansion (the second all-time-lamest computer innovation) and the fact that all backpanel ports are.. BERG headers (the first all-time-lamest computer innovation). What's up with the tiny card-edge connectors inside on the motherboard? I also noticed my keyboard (which is a joke) has an RJ-11 jack off to the side, and that there's a 2x3 BERG header at the back labelled 'K'. Could this be for a keyboard cable, heaven forbid? Also, keyboard battery life is uniformly poor. It seems like I get about 20 minutes. Is this normal? ok r. From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 10:47:51 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141601.MAA13469@charity.harvard.net> A bit of followup... I ordered the Sam's Photofact kit for the C128. Guess I'll be breaking out the scope. Tony From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 11:18:38 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141618.JAA03285@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? Absolutely! :-) I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid colors. :-) A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Jul 14 11:38:21 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <1998Jul14.123645.1767.118627@smtp.itgonline.com> Yes the RJ-11 jack is to hard wire the keyboard. My PC Jr works wireless okay up to four or five feet then gets flakey. Batteries don't last long in mine either although it's been a long time since I've played with it. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: How many computers? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/14/98 11:45 AM On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remmeber it was supposed to be a _home_ computer. At the time very few > home computers came with floppy drives. > > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? Dunno, mine's got an IBM 360k drive in it. My biggest complaints about are the 'sidecar' expansion (the second all-time-lamest computer innovation) and the fact that all backpanel ports are.. BERG headers (the first all-time-lamest computer innovation). What's up with the tiny card-edge connectors inside on the motherboard? I also noticed my keyboard (which is a joke) has an RJ-11 jack off to the side, and that there's a 2x3 BERG header at the back labelled 'K'. Could this be for a keyboard cable, heaven forbid? Also, keyboard battery life is uniformly poor. It seems like I get about 20 minutes. Is this normal? ok r. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul14.114543.1767.51176; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:45:43 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA02047; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:32 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA24738 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:21 -0700 Received: from instinct.bears.org (red@instinct.bears.org [208.9.111.102]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA00421 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (red@localhost) by instinct.bears.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA19769 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:44:07 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: How many computers? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 11:59:32 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141707.NAA19820@charity.harvard.net> I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool one was the granite macintosh. I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac 128K Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 12:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) > > > >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on > computers might > >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there > would ever be a > >market for it? > > Absolutely! :-) > > I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would > have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I > cold do solid > colors. :-) > > A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power > Mac 5100's. > They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. > > Tom Owad > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: > From peacock at simconv.com Tue Jul 14 12:23:03 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4BD@mail.simconv.com> DEC actually tried something like that in the late 70's, they had an option for some kind of designer pattern painted on small racks going into office environments. I think it only lasted a few months, but I do remember getting the brochures from DEC (company was an OEM from DEC at the time). Response was underwhelming. Personally, if it isn't beige or blue I don't consider it a "real" computer. When DEC went to the black racks and purple lettering (hmm, early 70s?) that was too radical for me, I was glad to see a return to the traditional beige rack. DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular than the "designer" panels. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 9:19 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 12:22:50 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141618.JAA03285@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714132250.0093f840@netpath.net> At 09:18 AM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >colors. :-) > >A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. Well, people do say I am really autistic, er, artistic, so I should be able to come up with something. Wish I still had my airbrush setup to work with. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics when I do it. I have an empty SE/30 case to practice on. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 12:22:07 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141707.NAA19820@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714132207.00938ad0@netpath.net> At 12:59 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered >a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool >one was the granite macintosh. > >I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac >128K Maybe that's what I should do with the empty SE/30 case: A Macquarium with a custom paint job! :) From rax at warbaby.com Tue Jul 14 13:49:38 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly challenged one's touch-typing skills... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:41:23 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <9806149004.AA900467036@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Right. My turn now. Unlike most of you, it seems, a lot of my computers don't work. I seem to acquire faster than I can repair - perhaps because computers are just one hobby among many, perhaps because acquiring computers is relatively easy... I have about 60. Last time I counted I got to about 51 but I don't think I got them all. A selection: Assorted PETs, at least one C64 and a couple of VIC 20s (one with missing keytop); Assorted PDPs in various states of disrepair, plus a large number of spare M-series boards (both Unibus and Qbus, including several CPU boards) and a couple of Rainbows; Several BBC model Bs (don't know what sorts) and an electron; Tatung Einstein, TI 99/4A; Sinclair ZX81, Spectrum, Spectrum +2; IBM PC-AT, 6150 (= RT PC tower model), System/23 (5332 Datamaster); A couple of Compaq 386 lapdogs; HP 71C, 75C, 85, 86, 87 (but the HP I use most is my 28C - I suppose that's a classic now); Sirius-1, FTS Series-88 (nearly two of those), Superbrain; I recently got a couple of Apple ][ and a couple of Exidy Sorcerors; But my favourite is the Tektronix 4052 graphics box. With luck, I'll bring it to the VCF this autumn ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H fall. Philip. From rax at warbaby.com Tue Jul 14 13:52:44 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: >At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: > >>I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >>for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > >Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint >something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product >for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor >once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, >but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black >magic marker. > >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? > >I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble >cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in >wood. :) > >Is this off-topic? > It's too cool a thread to be off-topic. There's an outfit here in San Francisco that does custom paint jobs on computers and they have more work than they know what to do with. One of my dreams is to re-case my CPU and monitor in mahogany and brass like 19th century scientific gear. It wouldn't be that big a job, but then I'd have to build a keyboard from scratch with engraved ivory keys...umm...I think I'll put it off a little longer. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 14 12:48:05 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980714132207.00938ad0@netpath.net> Message-ID: Occasionally I travel through Singapore and I try to stop at Funan Center. It is a 5 story Mall in which the top 3 floors are all computer shops. There is one store that has a collection of old Macs in the front of the shop. The cases feature several different brightly colored paint schemes. Although they seem a bit dusty it sure is a standout! George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 12:59 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered > >a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool > >one was the granite macintosh. > > > >I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac > >128K > > Maybe that's what I should do with the empty SE/30 case: A Macquarium with > a custom paint job! :) > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 14 12:52:50 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any idea how we might find the original paint color to restore a faded Mac or other Apple product to new condition? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rax wrote: > >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. > >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > > >Tom Owad > > > >-- > >Sysop of Caesarville Online > >Client software at: > > > My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from > a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I > thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, > but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly > challenged one's touch-typing skills... > > R. > > -- > > > > Warbaby > The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. > http://www.warbaby.com > > The MonkeyPool > WebSite Content Development > http://www.monkeypool.com > > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:51:13 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote: >> media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster >> for servo tracks. >> >> FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow > > A lot of winchesters land the heads on the platter - and not always in a > special 'landing zone'. This implies the heads start flying as the disk > gets up to speed. > > It also implies that the heads can land on the platter without damage. On > the other hand, there's a difference between the landing when the drive > spins down, and crashing due to hitting a dust particle. > >> the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside >> the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the >> media and is then captured in a filter. > > Agreed... A lot has been said about dust in hard drives, most of it assuming that the dust is dry. But only one person (sorry, can't remember who) has talked about other things. Remember, not all pollutants are dry. Some (water, spittle) are wet, and some are quite sticky (ever parked your car under lime trees?). These will mess a hard drive up something cruel! Yes, if you take reasonable precautions, you may well be OK. But one day, if you haven't got a clean room, you will come to grief... BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian will parobably be able to answer this) how do you grade clean rooms? I take it it has something to do with the size of the largest particles you'll find in the air and/or how many of them you have... Oh yes. I take it "Tobacco for chewing only" goes without saying ;-) Philip. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 12:55:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? >I recently got a couple of Apple ][ and a couple of Exidy Sorcerors; ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 12:57:50 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141759.NAA25130@charity.harvard.net> In the old days, I used to work for a company that made hard disk subsystems for the mac. When Apple changed to the "Platinum" color scheme, they sent out a paint sample with a pantone color #. Someone MUST know what it is... Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: George Rachor [mailto:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 1:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) > > > Any idea how we might find the original paint color to > restore a faded Mac > or other Apple product to new condition? > > George > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rax wrote: > > > >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job > on my SE/30. > > >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the > mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > > >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > > > > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint > would be best > > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit > before hand? > > > > > >Tom Owad > > > > > >-- > > >Sysop of Caesarville Online > > >Client software at: > > > > > > My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got > the paint from > > a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic > models. I > > thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted > the keyboard, > > but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly > > challenged one's touch-typing skills... > > > > R. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Warbaby > > The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. > > http://www.warbaby.com > > > > The MonkeyPool > > WebSite Content Development > > http://www.monkeypool.com > > > > > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 13:03:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! Message-ID: <19980714180318.20865.qmail@hotmail.com> I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know your address and can email you. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 14 13:16:35 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. > Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? Sort of true. It used eight track cassette casings, but the insides were replaced with a circuit board with a ROM on it. So basically, they cleverly designed their program carthridges around a readily available source of casings: the 8-track tape. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:13:11 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: References: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141311.0093d100@netpath.net> At 10:49 AM 7/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from >a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I >thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, >but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly >challenged one's touch-typing skills... Hmmmm. Metalflake with orange and yellow flames... From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:14:44 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141444.00925cf0@netpath.net> At 10:52 AM 7/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >One of my dreams is to re-case my CPU and monitor in mahogany and brass >like 19th century scientific gear. It wouldn't be that big a job, but then >I'd have to build a keyboard from scratch with engraved ivory >keys...umm...I think I'll put it off a little longer. At one time, I was thinking of "retrofitting" my computer into an old rolltop desk, but it's like 100 years old. It is mine, but my wife would still kill me. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:17:07 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141759.NAA25130@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141707.00928a90@netpath.net> At 01:57 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >In the old days, I used to work for a company that made hard disk >subsystems for the mac. When Apple changed to the "Platinum" color >scheme, they sent out a paint sample with a pantone color #. Someone >MUST know what it is... I heard it mentioned on some list, could have sworn it was this one, but maybe not. The Pantone color DOES exist somewhere. This looks like a job for the search engines. From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 13:55:31 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141855.LAA06905@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Any idea how we might find the original paint color to restore a faded Mac >or other Apple product to new condition? The old Beige cases are made with Borg-Warner's ABS Cyclolac using the color PMS 453. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From Archive at navix.net Tue Jul 14 15:55:16 1998 From: Archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! References: <19980714180318.20865.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35ABC5B3.D1FCA846@navix.net> Max: I believe Anthony still monitors this list.... but just isn't taking an active role as he's kind of moved on to some other hobbies/business (publishing?). I was in Des Moines a while back and picked up some computers he was liquidating. CORD COSLOR Max Eskin wrote: > I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone > seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know > your address and can email you. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 14 15:23:20 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 03:10:38 pm Message-ID: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 691 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/96ad773c/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Jul 14 14:25:11 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment Message-ID: <13371653266.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but lacks the instructions to do the deed. Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? ------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 14 14:36:50 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! Message-ID: <9aef9bb5.35abb353@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-14 15:03:11 EDT, you write: << > I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone > seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know > your address and can email you. > >> he did have a website called retrocomputing.com but i am unable to establish a connection to it. I hope that he still is present as I need to close a deal we had made. david From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Jul 14 15:32:19 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4BD@mail.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Jul 14, 98 10:23:03 am Message-ID: <199807142032.NAA20254@goodnet.com> > DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a > regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a > BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular > than the "designer" panels. I have one of these at home. It has a lowered part of the desktop for the monitor. I got it at ASU surplus but it was empty except for a power controller (there are switches right below the desktop on the right side of the rack part, and one of them controls the power controller, but I'm not sure what the other is for.) -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * X window * alternative energy * TCP/IP packet * 808 State * Java * OO * From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 14 15:37:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! In-Reply-To: <9aef9bb5.35abb353@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-14 15:03:11 EDT, you write: > > he did have a website called retrocomputing.com but i am unable to establish a > connection to it. I hope that he still is present as I need to close a deal we > had made. According to internic, you might be able to contact him at clifton@CAPTAINJACK.COM I liked his domain name, and since he declared he's leaving the field, I decided to register a similar domain. I'm now the proud owner of RETROCOMPUTE.COM (coming soon to a web site near you). -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 15:40:16 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 06:41 PM 7/14/98 GMT, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > Not many, 10 to 20, and some I don't know if to count, such as pc boards with a 6802, 2716, and 2 6821 ic's. I think they came from a cash register system. Others like XT motherboards... 1. Mixed brand S-100 System. Either Flashwriter display or serial to Heatkit H19 terminal. Extra crate and misc cards. 2. Various PC clones. I am using a 386 now. No Pentiums or higher. 3. A few Z-80 test computers. 8 or so ic's on a single board. 4. 80188 board computer for "Radio Electronics" Robot. 5. Homebrew game of "life" computer. (1973) 6. Calculator built from neon bulb "shift register counters". Input is a rotary telephone dial. I think subtraction was "1's complements". (about 1968) Interesting peripherals from late 1970's when I was going a lot. 1. SWTP CT-1024 modified for 64 columns and graphics. Hope to get this working again with some computer. 2. Sylvanhills flat bed plotter. Used DC motors and opto-interruptor wheels which I replaced with stepper motors. 3. Stepper motor 3 axis wax carver. Used cylindrical coordinates. The wax block rotated on a turntable. Literature, including First 7 years of Byte. First few years of Dr. Dobbs, the bound volumes, I didn't keep the individual issues. 2 of the Creative Computer games books. 10 issues of "Computer Hobbyist", I have just found the remaining issues. Documentation for Scelbi 8H and other 8008 stuff. Other construction type books. Various parts, including a box of RTL ic's, 1101 memory's. There apparently was an ad in 1967 "CQ" for an RTL computer. >> DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) > >Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >to resurrect the product. Yes, it would be fun to find things like this. I still have the 3 potentiometer "analog" computer I built for some science fair. The Digicomp I cost $5.95 in 1969 from Edmund Sci. Others were various mechanical (Dr. Nim) and electronic NIM players, Computers like "Brainac", and later in 1971, a National Radio Institute computer using 53 TTL ic's. Have seen only ad's. A RCA projects book I have has a "slot machine" built from individual transistors for flip flops, gates, multivibrators, etc. It "computed" the score, so was a calculator of sorts. Speaking of books, has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. -Dave From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:29:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807140319.AA17527@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 11:19:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/5e76fc5c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:31:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807140319.AA17592@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 11:19:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/d993b251/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:35:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 14, 98 12:45:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/5d0532d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:13:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141345.JAA29252@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 14, 98 09:40:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/4656963b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:46:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807141438.OAA12157@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 14, 98 10:36:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/09fb571a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:50:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807141423.OAA11737@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 14, 98 10:20:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/9c3f146d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:42:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980714150136.26610.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 08:01:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/6785fba8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:56:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 14, 98 11:44:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1751 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/cb270d69/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 15:46:50 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> At 18:51 14-07-98 +0000, you wrote: >Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote: > >>> media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster >>> for servo tracks. >>> >>> FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow >> >> A lot of winchesters land the heads on the platter - and not always in a >> special 'landing zone'. This implies the heads start flying as the disk >> gets up to speed. >> >> It also implies that the heads can land on the platter without damage. On >> the other hand, there's a difference between the landing when the drive >> spins down, and crashing due to hitting a dust particle. >> >>> the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside >>> the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the >>> media and is then captured in a filter. >> >> Agreed... > >A lot has been said about dust in hard drives, most of it assuming that >the dust is dry. But only one person (sorry, can't remember who) has >talked about other things. > >Remember, not all pollutants are dry. Some (water, spittle) are wet, >and some are quite sticky (ever parked your car under lime trees?). >These will mess a hard drive up something cruel! > >Yes, if you take reasonable precautions, you may well be OK. But one >day, if you haven't got a clean room, you will come to grief... > >BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the air passing through. You see HEPA filters more and more in consumer related things (at least I have in the States). Example: Air filters in many modern automobiles, possibly all autos, use a HEPA filter for engine air intake filtering. Clearances between engine parts are closer nowadays which improves engine performance and efficiency plus smaller engines are stressed harder in relatively large modern cars, both thus requiring really clean air intake. Also, I think I've seen an advertisement for a fancy grade household vacuum cleaner advertising it has a HEPA filter on its exhaust. Less allergens blown about. We use Nilfisk-brand cleanroom vacuum cleaners at work. Made in Denmark I believe. Cost around US$1000 each but they're meant for use *in* cleanrooms and *must* not throw junk about from their exhaust. >will parobably be able to answer this) how do you grade clean rooms? I >take it it has something to do with the size of the largest particles >you'll find in the air and/or how many of them you have... Yes, you are correct re having something to do with size and number of particles. Cleanroom grading is based on Federal Standard 209E. I have the rev. "D" document around the office buried somewhere in some papers. This standard seems to have been adopted outside the USA too. Cleanroom technology has been around a long time in pharmaceutical manufacturing and medical fields and adapted to semiconductor manufacturing in the last 20-30 years. Anyway, here's a short classification table from 209 (hope the formating comes out okay w/text-only displays!): Max. number of particles Class: Max. no. of part. per cubic foot(per liter) English system per cu. ft.(per l.) 0.5 micron and larger (metric system) > 5.0 microns 100 (3.5) 100 (3.5) * 10,000 (350) 10,000 (350) 65 (2.3) 100,000 (3500) 100,000 (3500) 700 (25) How is this measured? A particle counter is used. These machines typically use light-scattering to count the particles passing through a special optical chamber with specially ground curved mirrors. The class number is obtained by pumping sampled air through the chamber at a rate of one cu. ft. per minute. A low power He-Ne laser is used in our particular unit as a stable, coherent light source. Its beam passes through the chamber at a right angle to the air flow. To the side of the path of both the airflow and laser beam a detector array is mounted. When an air particle passes across the beam path, light is reflected off from it to all of the mirrors and bounces to the detector. Our machine has a linear CCD array. When many particles pass across the beam this chamber acts as an opticle integrator and the light from all the particles is 'seen' by the array. The higher the output from the array, the larger the quantity of particles. Also, a relative size of the particle is also established. A group of cells on the array may have light hitting them dependent upon the particle size to yield an integrated value equivalent to a particular size. The analog output is run through an A/D converter and processed by one of the venerable Z80 CPUs and sent to a CRT display and printer. (I told you in the previous post that the concept was simple yet the device was a little complicated!) To sumarize the determination of the count: Take exactly one cubic foot of air and pass it through the counter during exactly one minute and count the particles. Therefore, a class 10,000 cleanroom has less than or equal to 10,000 particles in one cu. ft. of air that you can count during one minute which are 0.5 microns and larger. Same for class 1000, etc. Typical modern cleanrooms at chipmakers are class 100 or class 10. There's even a few *Class 1* cleanrooms around (Dept. of Defense is believed to have had one of the first built several years ago.) Some drive makers have advertised they build their drives in class 100 or class 1000 cleanrooms. That yields excellent quality control in that failure from physical defects is held much lower. Imagine this: I recall once reading that the normal air we breathe, when it is extremely clean and quite clear, has a billion or more particles per cu. ft. larger than 0.5 micron. The number skyrockets when plant pollen, smoke from fires, mold spores and many other particle sources are included. I have allergies to some airborne things and I feel great when I'm working in the cleanroom. Ours tests to less than class 100 though it is designed for 10,000. No wonder I feel better! During a dry winter day, as we walk along, there are literally billions of skin and dust particles shed from our person nearly all of which are too small to see. Imagine such stuff falling in our modern hard drives where the flying height of the heads is in the tens of microns range. This is only one example of the sources of contamination we'd have to watch for in our homemade cleanrooms/cleanbenches. > >Oh yes. I take it "Tobacco for chewing only" goes without saying ;-) Just so the spit from yer chaw ain't blown all over! I guess this turned out to be part of a cleanroom primer after all. Regards, Chris -- -- From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 16:06:00 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807142108.VAA24059@cyber2.servtech.com> At 12:23 14-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >> board which I want to identify. >> >> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >> from this system. > >Two 50-pin-headers strongly points towards this board being a Pertec-formatted >tape interface. (like the TC02/TC03). It could also be a communications >multiplexer, like something from the CS series. > >> Anybody need to have more info to help ID this thing? > >There ought to be a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs >that will give the part number and revision level. There is a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs from which this C3987-C came from. This number was listed as a sub-assy number, IIRC. There is a longer number at the top of the sticker. I'll post it tomorrow. There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with "UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. Thanks for the input Tim. Regards, Chris -- -- > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:15:05 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman "Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT)" (Jul 14, 6:50) References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> <35AB45E8.4039C563@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <9807142215.ZM8266@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 6:50, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Use paints that have glue type solvents, ones with toluene, acetone and xylene > that will melt into the finsih below and/or plastic and bond after sanding > with 400 sandpaper, works great. [snip] > After it dries overnight (esp black) clean it down with a sponge and then dry > it off and the excess dust of overspray will be gone, just like a factory > finish. Philips used to supply small runs of OEM monitors which were spray-painted in custom colours, instead of using different coloured plastic. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:09:25 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 18:07) References: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13 13:20) Message-ID: <9807142209.ZM8246@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 13, 18:07, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For example I've got a > Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of thing, basically > a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. In the list I posted, I included anything that was vaguely a computer, like the Psion and the AgendA, and the Torch, which is really a second processor for a BBC B. I didn't include terminals, such as my VT131, a couple of Cifer terminals, and some Wyse terminals. If the WP-2 runs software, even just a dedicated word processor, I'd probably count it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:12:38 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 14, 12:45) References: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <9807142212.ZM8262@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 12:45, Hans Franke wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus > > B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another > motherboard revision ? The B-plus was a model introduced after the B but before the Master Series. It had a lot of features of the Master 128, but was in a case just like a Model B. The circuit board is completely different, though. Different processor (65C12, IIRC), 64K RAM expandable to 128K, shadow memory and extra modes, etc, and a very different layout. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:25:52 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 14, 10:55) References: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9807142225.ZM8285@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 10:55, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. > Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? No, they used "ROM Pac"s, which consist of a small circuit board with a decoder chip and 4 x 2KB ROMs mounted inside a gutted 8-track tape cartridge. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 14 16:35:27 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > Speaking of books, > has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, > Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. Yes. You reminded me that I have this book. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From red at bears.org Tue Jul 14 16:57:46 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Why? Since (in theory at least) a sidecar could buffer the bus, it's > possible to add as many devices as you want on the side. Better than the > limited number of slots in most PCs. It just seems thoughtless. As far as the 'limited' number of slots in most PCs go ... well, I won't go there. I'll start ranting. I will say this, though: At this point in the evolution of computers, if you find users of your systems are wanting regularly to add on more than three (or so) cards or sidecar modules, you have drastically misevaluated your target market and deserve to start haemorrhaging market share. IMO. > Firstly they're not (the audio and video outputs are RCA sockets) :-) Those don't count. (: Even the monitor and power supply hookups are BERG strips. Sick. > Yes, you can use a keyboard cable. Plugging it in disables the IR bits, > connects the keyboard electronics to the +5V line (so you don't need > batteries in the keyboard) and links up the data line. I've probably got > the wirelist if you want to make one. Yes, I think that'd be quite useful. If you find it, I'd like the wirelist. Thanks. [battery life] Eh, probably more due to me not drying the membranes completely after I cleaned the keyboard. ok r. From gargor1 at concentric.net Tue Jul 14 16:30:03 1998 From: gargor1 at concentric.net (Garrett Gordon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: yes I would like a list of what is left of the computers Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714143003.0079e7e0@pop3.concentric.net> My phone number is (408)338-9282. From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 14 16:45:39 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <000a01bdaf70$c0d626e0$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> My girlfriend works for a sign company that does small and large scale signage; including printing out vinyl signs. they can print onto lexan, transparent vinyl, aluminum, etc etc; our project last week was making a tower case out of clear acrylic, and putting some various translucent designs on it (including a very dashing "Linux Powered" logo.) the company is www.fastsigns.com, there are local all over the US and i believe also england. for a full colour case design (they can scan and print any graphic) it's usually about $50 US and then the cost of the materials. most likely under $100. i'll upload some shots of this awesome case once i get my digital camera back from a friend. -Eric >Absolutely! :-) > >I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >colors. :-) > >A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. > >Tom Owad > From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 18:11:44 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714191138.00687b58@netpath.net> Please do. I'd like to see it, but I would rather keep the original case, or an exact or near to it replica in another material. Doug had a good idea with the chrome look, but I think I would have to actually tool a metal case and get it chromed for it to look good, too much money for me, but it would look neat, maybe with some red glowing lights behind the vents ala Terminator. :) Hmmmm. I do have the empty SE/30 case to practice on, but I just got another idea while looking at my mini-tower 233mmx: Cut out one whole side of it, replace with plexiglass or glass panel so I can see all the goodies inside, maybe throw some little 5v LEDs into it to make it purty... I'm getting too many cool ideas here. I need to stop thinking and start putting this in action. At 04:45 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >My girlfriend works for a sign company that does small and large scale >signage; including printing out vinyl signs. they can print onto lexan, >transparent vinyl, aluminum, etc etc; our project last week was making a >tower case out of clear acrylic, and putting some various translucent >designs on it (including a very dashing "Linux Powered" logo.) the company >is www.fastsigns.com, there are local all over the US and i believe also >england. for a full colour case design (they can scan and print any graphic) >it's usually about $50 US and then the cost of the materials. most likely >under $100. i'll upload some shots of this awesome case once i get my >digital camera back from a friend. > >-Eric > > > > >>Absolutely! :-) >> >>I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >>have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >>colors. :-) >> >>A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >>They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. >> >>Tom Owad >> > > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 18:19:46 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Forward Air - Ship them hunks o' Iron! Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714191941.0068d88c@netpath.net> This is an unofficial page for Forward Air, a company that claims to have very reasonable air freight rates for packages. This page was put together from the perspective of an arcade machine afficianado(sp?), but plenty of info here for all. Just thought I'd pass it on in case someone needs it or hasn't heard of it, or whatever. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 18:20:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980714232009.6460.qmail@hotmail.com> The actual sensor is a sealed unit, just like a transistor or a vacuum tube. You don't even have to tell anybody :) >don't believe the small amount of Am241 in the average smoke detector is >that dangerous if handled carefully, but I can see some people getting >very upset if they found I was stripping down smoke detectors and >modifying them. And I don't need that sort of hassle. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 18:29:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: empty rack Message-ID: <19980714232946.2977.qmail@hotmail.com> I found an empty rack today, not sure of the dimensions. It had nothing but rails and a power cord. At the top, it had something like "Camex" in blue letters, I forgot exactly what by the time I got home. Next to the name, it had some kind of snowflake-like emblem. Does anyone in the Boston area want this thing? I will inquire if there is anything more where that came from... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Jul 14 18:23:21 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <009801bdaf80$b8c5fe20$4712fea9@mainoffice> Well, I have DOS 1.1 (May, 1982) and Windows 1.03. In fact, I'm in the process of de-compiling DOS 1.1, now. BootSector: done. IBMBIO: 75% done. IBMDOS: not started yet. I'm still looking for DOS 1.0. In fact, I have copies of many true-IBM dos-es (not OEM versions). Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 14 19:10:01 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3f992a2b.35abf35a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-14 11:45:07 EDT, tony duell put forth: << > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? >> all pcjr machines came with 128k and one floppy drive. i have seen "second story" units that add another floppy drive. it seems to be there used to be an aftermarket for the jr, but a hot-rodded one still wouldnt be as good as a standard xt though. a popular modification was to bring the machine up to 640k by soldering in some dip chips in the 128k add on sidecar thing. i believe IBM has a file on the www searchfiles page that still tells how to do this. david From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 17:38:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 10:55:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/3ff1e529/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 17:52:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467036@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 14, 98 06:41:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/c657496a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 18:01:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 14, 98 06:51:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/178740fa/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:43:49 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: how many computers? Message-ID: <199807150043.AA19573@world.std.com> Maybe I'll provide my full list in a later message, but for now, you can check my 'home_systems' page off my home page... >> DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) > >Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >to resurrect the product. I concur... way cool. I remember when I was in fifth grade or so, my father ordered one for me. When he received it, he thought it was too complex and simply put it away. One day I came across it, and before he came home that night I had assembled it and was working on some of the programming examples. I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Tue Jul 14 19:47:42 1998 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35acfb23.15289855@mail.tgis.co.uk> On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:35:58 +0100 (BST), you wrote: >> >> > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus >> >> B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another >> motherboard revision ? > >No it was a different machine. 64K RAM as standard, I think. > >> >> > Torch Z80 Card x 2 >> >> ?? same here. > >That's a Z80 coprocessor card that fits inside the BBC micro and plugs >into the 'Tube' connector. A pretty simple machine with 64K RAM and a >small ROM containing a CP/M-a-like. There's a host ROM that goes into the >BBC micro. The BBC acts as an intellegent terminal to the CP/M machine. > I have a Torch its a big box 2 5 1/4 drives plugs into the Tube of the BBC and runs msdos about half the speed of a XT ......... From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:53:37 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <199807150053.AA28643@world.std.com> >DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with >PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a >regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a >BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular >than the "designer" panels. I actually have one of those desks (I bought it from DEC Salvage about 12 or so years ago). Yes, the left side had a 19" wide set of standard rails... but there was also a 19" wide set of rails on the right, only accessable from the back. This was a perfect spot for a power controller. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:58:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <199807150058.AA03306@world.std.com> >or blue I don't consider it a "real" computer. When DEC went to the >black racks and purple lettering (hmm, early 70s?) that was too radical >for me, I was glad to see a return to the traditional beige rack. The 19" racks were generally black... there were attachments to the top of them which were different colors. The purple series was indicative of the pdp-11s (which match the time-frame). I've seen them both with beige side-panels and black side-panels... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:01:53 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment Message-ID: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> >A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but >lacks the instructions to do the deed. >Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? Have your friend contact me off-line at work... I may have some RP06 manuals in my collection. Maybe one of them is a maintenance guide which explains it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:06:15 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807150106.AA10383@world.std.com> >Speaking of books, >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. I remember one from years ago which was how to build (and program) a simple computer using paperclips and lights... (and a program 'drum' made out of a coffee can). I think I still have it... is this what you're thinking of? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:13:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> >There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape >looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's >a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with >"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon >cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and >peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. The BA23 was originally marketed with an 5.25" RD series drive and an RX50 dual 5.25" floppy drive. Later, for the MicroVAX/VaxStationI/II/IIRC system, the RX50 was replaced by a TK50. There was also a configuration with an RX33 instead of either the RX50 or TK50. A TU58 type tape drive sounds very strange for the BA23... maybe it was packaged by someone else? (Would the single TU58 tape drive of a Vax-11/730 be adaptable to the skids of a BA23 drive bay?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 20:19:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715011938.25556.qmail@hotmail.com> If you are removing a head arm and working on it, you can wrap everything but the actual connection in clean plastic. I wouldn't expect smoke particles to magically fall off the arm onto the platter, even if the arm is upside down. Plus, smoke travels upwards, and I would expect little of it to settle if you use a fan or something. As soon as you finish soldering, take it back to the clean box, and put it inside to let it cool off or to reassemble (unless it's still smoking). As for doing activities which involve platters, that's a trickier thing. I have no idea what you would do if you had a problem with the motor or the axle on which the platters are mounted. Now, my question. Let's say a single head crashes. This would raise up some dust off the platter, right? Would it be possible to recover the material that wasn't destroyed by the dragging head? What if this deformed the platter? >Serious question. What do you do if you need to resolder a head >connection or something? Do you remove the head assembly from the clean >box, solder it, clean if off with IPA, put it back in the clean box and >reassemble or what? I can't believe you want flux smoke in the HDA. > >> Philip. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 19:42:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 14, 98 01:40:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/74414d2c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:01:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 14, 98 05:57:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2873 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/37e34d42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:03:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980714232009.6460.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 04:20:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/d6b934c7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:05:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <3f992a2b.35abf35a@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jul 14, 98 08:10:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/0a346ac8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:37:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35acfb23.15289855@mail.tgis.co.uk> from "Christopher Denham" at Jul 15, 98 00:47:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 912 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/741c8cde/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:42:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980715011938.25556.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 06:19:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1478 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/5868a92e/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 14 21:50:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 09:13:31 pm Message-ID: <9807150150.AA08717@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 873 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/42f4d29e/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 14 20:06:12 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <001301bdaf8c$c5ed7e00$97f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> well, I personally have never opened up a hard drive, if nothing else because I've never had an extra to pop open (i'm too frugal. hehe.) Regardless, I have found the program "Spinrite" to work great on IDE drives; it goes through and can fix bad sectors, or mark them totally unusable. this really differs from standard formats/etc, because I've been able to take drives w/ 30mb of bad sectors and get it to 0 bad sectors, and still running fine w/ no problems after a year. i believe they are on version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. -Eric From kyrrin at jps.net Tue Jul 14 21:16:26 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Yes, I have returned. Lord Almighty, what a haul!! I can say with confidence that I definitely tested the maximum load specs for the (rented) Ford Windstar minivan. Every time I went over a good bump, the rear springs -almost- bottomed out. I'll be updating my web page soon with the gory details. Suffice to say I've got more than enough to keep me going, project-wise, well into next year. Among the more 'classic' items in the haul were a Kennedy 9100 tape drive installed in a nice 5-foot DEC rack, and a box full of 9-track tapes containing mostly DECUS RT-11 SIG libraries. Tony, I know you'll get a kick out of this. I also got hold of another 11/44 CPU box, loaded with cards (including a Unibus UDA50 disk controller). Between that one and my current unit, I should be able to get the power supply going AND fix the broken one for a spare! Since I'm not heavily into RT-11 (yet), I'd like to offer the RT-11 SIG tapes to whoever's interested and willing to pay shipping. There's about six or so, maybe a couple more. And would you believe I'm already planning next year's run? I know I'll see at least some of you at VCF in another couple of months. Until then... Banzai! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 22:21:35 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714231755.00686ba8@netpath.net> At 01:42 AM 7/15/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >My rule is that if it's possible to get a user program in there, it's a >computer. Yes there are marginal cases, but who cares. This is not a 'who's >got the most computers' competition, now is it? It's not??? Dang! I thought I was a shoe in for mister congeneality!!! :) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 22:28:16 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714232709.0068b374@netpath.net> I'll bring it back on topic: Spinrite is some powerful hoodoo. I used it alot on Seagate ST-225 drives. I'm never one to use any questionable sectors though: Some of those drives had less than 10mb when I was through with them. I don't trust iffy sectors. At 08:06 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and >doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 >drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 14 22:25:25 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in Europe? -- Doug From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 14 23:13:42 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: **** snip **** > A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is > built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the **** and again **** Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 14 23:17:55 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery References: <3.0.32.19980714232709.0068b374@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AC2D73.E67E9EF3@rain.org> John Higginbotham wrote: > > I'll bring it back on topic: Spinrite is some powerful hoodoo. I used > it > alot on Seagate ST-225 drives. I'm never one to use any questionable > sectors though: Some of those drives had less than 10mb when I was > through > with them. I don't trust iffy sectors. I've used Spinrite since it first came out, and have found it to be the best software for maintaining and sometimes fixing hard drives. I was called in a number of years ago to try and recover the data from a HD that was in the process of crashing and losing everything. Since it was handy, I tried the Norton NDD (?) software to recover the data that was unreadable. Of the four lost files, it destroyed the first three. By that time, I gave up and invoked Spinrite. It recoverd the data effortlessly (although it did take a bit of time :) .) Recently, a friend brought over his HD to see what was going on with it. I ran ScanDisk thinking it would be fairly safe. No such luck, and again, a bunch of data got destroyed. Sometime after that, I acquired the current version of Spinrite and tried it on the drive. It instantly complained that the drive and the drive settings differed along with a few other tips. Turned out that LBA somehow got turned off in the BIOS and thus corrupted the disk. I truely hate the brain-damaged program ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few hundred drives I have worked on. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 14 23:18:01 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:25:25 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199807150418.VAA07542@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in Europe? Hmm. How about the Heinz Nixdorf Museumforum somewhere near Paderborn in Germany? I have brochures (somewhat dated), or you can check out their web site (which, last I looked, was mostly in German) at http://www.hnf.de/ . Never been there myself, but it's on my list if I ever get around to a European Tour. -Frank McConnell From sinasohn at mail.crl.com Tue Jul 14 23:49:51 1998 From: sinasohn at mail.crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: fwd: atari 800 (Sacramento, CA) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980714132315.3c3f8ce4@mail.crl.com> Please contact Mr. Woo directly if interested... >From: K W >Subject: atari 800 >To: sinasohn@crl.com > >Mr. Sinasohn, > >I've got an Atari 800 computer that I want to get rid of, and I'd >rather give it away than throw it in the trash. It's still in great >condition, with a drive, tape recorder, joysticks, etc. Would anyone >in ABACUS be interested? > >There is a catch though: it's in Sacramento. I've emailed the Sacto >groups, with no response yet. If there's someone in ABACUS who makes >regular trips to Sacto, and would like to have it, I'd be willing to >hold it. > > >Kevin Woo >wookm@yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From cad at gamewood.net Tue Jul 14 23:48:40 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AC34A8.6A35@gamewood.net> My wife says, 'Too many!!' A Sphere, Astral 2000, M&R sbc, Dragon, several CoCo's, Eagle 1600, enough spares for a Leading Edge model 2, XEROX 860IPS,Unisys Personal Workstation Series 850 (marginal timewise). Chuck -- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 01:37:41 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980714233741.00e644b0@mail.wa.jps.net> The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, folks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Jul 15 02:16:13 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807150716.AAA10500@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Megan and all, At 09:06 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>Speaking of books, >>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. > >I remember one from years ago which was how to build (and program) >a simple computer using paperclips and lights... (and a program >'drum' made out of a coffee can). I think I still have it... is this >what you're thinking of? That sounds like another one I don't have, but read through an interlibrary loan: "How to build a working Digital Computer", by E. Alcosser, Hayden, 1964. It used a bunch of ganged switches to make a 4 bit adder. Can you look, anyway? Thanks, You also wrote: >>Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >>owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >>letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >>to resurrect the product. >I concur... way cool. I remember when I was in fifth grade or so, my >father ordered one for me. When he received it, he thought it was too >complex and simply put it away. One day I came across it, and before >he came home that night I had assembled it and was working on some of >the programming examples. > >I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years >ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Sounds like you had fun! The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but if you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as required. That's the kind of thing I might do... -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 02:59:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: This is totally off-topic but this is the kind of thing you all can appreciate, and it may even help some of you. For the last several months I have constantly been spammed by what can be described as Son-of-Spamford. There's some spam e-mail software marketing company in Los Angeles that sends out millions of these messages I guess. They use web crawlers that steal e-mail addresses from web pages. They then send out this spam letter with forged headers and false return addresses. Very annoying. However, they do include a phone number and address at the end of the spam. Interesting. I've included the message at the end of this message so you can see if you've been spammed by these assholes as well. I was so incensed at one point that I was almost going to buy a plane ticket, fly down to L.A. with a box full of this spam e-mail printed out, kick the door open to the office that these guys are in, find the president of this "company", beat the shit out of him (or pimp-slap her), then start shoving the printouts down this person's throat (yes, this is rather violent :) But I soon figured out that the address was merely a private mailbox, and the phone number rings into a voicemail box. Hmmm. Well, I have the resources to find out where this number rings in to, possibly track down the service provider, but then what? Then I realized, "Hey, I have a PBX, a T-1 and a voicemail system with 16 ports...its time to have some fun." Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing "spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for each call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't stop coming. The last I checked the Spaminator had played over 100 spam tunes into their voicemail box. I am ecstatic. The Spaminator will continue to run over night. Tomorrow morning I will check its progress (it keeps a log of all tunes it plays so I know how many it did). If anyone is interested in utilizing the Spaminator for spaminating other egregious spammers, let me know. I can easily program it to simultaneously call out to other phone numbers and sing a symphony of spam for them as well. I hope that my simple solution brings some manner of grief to these idiots, whoever they are. Ideally it will give them more anguish than their constant barrage of spam has brought me. I will not relent. My next step is to try and track down the actual owners of this "business", try to find out their other phone numbers (preferrably home numbers) and unleash the Spaminator on those numbers as well. Thanks for letting me vent. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:16:46 -0700 From: "***Bull*sEye)*" <33rq2w@att.net> To: vcoffey@bu.edu Authenticated sender is <33rq2w@att.net> Subject: ++BullsEye-*Targeting*Software*)+ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. 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From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 03:28:38 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and trying to shutdown the relays. I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is to include your email address as the return address in their forged headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. -- Doug From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Wed Jul 15 10:10:10 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late eighties which fit into PCs. Whilst I can use any one single board, I've been unable to install more than one board as I've no information on the jumper and dip switch settings. Of course, some boards may not be capable of being anything other than the root transputer. Anyone have, or know where I can find such information on the following boards: Transtech TMB04 Sundance ST101 Gemini GM8101 Microway Monoputer2 Thanks, Doug. From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:26:33 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151001.CAA21831@next.ireadyco.com> I looked around at what's in sight... NeXT Color Turbo Station Sparcstation 5 Some boring peecees (incl a Linux box) A Mac IIx An Apple IIc Trs-80 Model 4P Trs-80 Model 16B w/ 8 megabyte HD and 12" floppies Trs-80 Model I w/ Expansion Interface/printer Trs-80 Model 100 NEC PC8201a Trs-80 PC-2 Kaypro 2000 Oh yeah... an HP 9825 from the mid-70's [w/ one-line display] Oddly most of these I never owned new. Of all of them the NeXT machine is still by far the most useful / least painful. The Trs-80 Model 16B is the most unique in my eye. I was annoyed by it at first but it was free and gradually began to like it. It's currently running CP/M but I'd like to get the HD back up and run Xenix. The software that came with it made it more interesting... as this stuff was untouchable [expensive] when it was new. Thomas From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:29:17 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. Just curious... I just like the concept... Perhaps they should have used the slogan... "Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!" Or perhaps not... Thomas From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:34:09 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) Message-ID: <199807151009.CAA21841@next.ireadyco.com> I had a friend who turned an Atari 800 into a planter. After that, I inherited it for awhile- it still worked. He had spray painted tho' it so I elected not to hold onto it. What always amazed me was this huge aluminum casting at the center of the machine where you inserted the BASIC and game cartridges. That casting must have added significant cost to manufacturing the machine! Hope someone grabs it... they're kinda neat. Thomas From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 07:33:27 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151019.MAA04616@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus >> B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another >> motherboard revision ? > No it was a different machine. 64K RAM as standard, I think. Do you know a picture in the web ? (Haven't found any). >>> Torch Z80 Card x 2 >> ?? same here. > That's a Z80 coprocessor card that fits inside the BBC micro and plugs > into the 'Tube' connector. A pretty simple machine with 64K RAM and a > small ROM containing a CP/M-a-like. There's a host ROM that goes into the > BBC micro. The BBC acts as an intellegent terminal to the CP/M machine. Ahh ja - hanks, I own 2 BBC Mod B but almost no documentation (and no extensions other than floppys). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 05:46:20 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote: > I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late eighties which > fit into PCs. Whilst I can use any one single board, I've been unable to > install more than one board as I've no information on the jumper and dip > switch settings. Of course, some boards may not be capable of being > anything other than the root transputer. Anyone have, or know where I > can find such information on the following boards: > > Transtech TMB04 > Sundance ST101 > Gemini GM8101 > Microway Monoputer2 I've got a bunch of documentation and software for the T800 board. I think most third-parties tried to be somewhat compatible with the boards from inmos. I'll try to dig them out. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 05:47:41 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote: > Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee > but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest > computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 > PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. I e-bumped into a guy who knows *all* about MAD. I've captured some of his knowledge for posterity: http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ -- Doug From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 15 06:13:44 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) Message-ID: <54ab9120.35ac8ee9@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-15 05:19:21 EDT, thomas pfaff put forth: << What always amazed me was this huge aluminum casting at the center of the machine where you inserted the BASIC and game cartridges. That casting must have added significant cost to manufacturing the >> well, my atari 400 is the same way. ive never seen a computer with so much metal in it like that. perhaps it was for emissions issues? the 400 had that dreadful keypad too so i can imagine even the best typist could only type about 1-2cps. david From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 06:54:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes Message-ID: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> > The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave >Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, >folks! Any chance someone could determine if there are any sig tapes among the stack which aren't currently available from any of the pdp-11 archives and make sure the archives get a copy? (Tim Shoppa?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 06:59:01 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151159.AA00115@world.std.com> >That sounds like another one I don't have, but read through an >interlibrary loan: "How to build a working Digital Computer", by E. >Alcosser, Hayden, 1964. It used a bunch of ganged switches to make a 4 >bit adder. Can you look, anyway? I will look for it... I also have an old book called 'Star Ship Simulation' published by Dilithium Press... >Sounds like you had fun! Sure did... >The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various >colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but >if you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you >recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as >required. Yes, it was made out of colored plastic shapes... with a few shaped metal rods and a number of what amounted to 1/2" (If I remember) sections of plastic straws which were used to do the actual programming. The documentation shows the parts, but not to scale... if I had a real one, I'd try to duplicate the parts... I remember the follow-on unit, the DigicompII, was not so much a computer as it was a game of Nim... I got that one as well, but I preferred the DigicompI Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 09:10:52 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: European Tour Message-ID: <199807151157.NAA13044@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each > in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops > along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage > portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in > Europe? Hmm, couldn't you be a bit more specific ? A few days in Germany is like saying 'visiting Alaska and BC and maybe some days on the West Coast' ... Oh Boy, Germany is more than 700 miles 'high' and up to 500 'wide' (nowadays:). Ok, for historic nerds there are at least 3 main places: - Museum fur Verkehr und Technik in Berlin - here you can find (beside a small display) a _complete_ replica of the Zuse Z1 computer - the first computer - and all mechanical :) - The Heinz Nixdorf Museum in Paderborn (a small city middle of nowhere) - They have a real comprehensive display. The single largest in Germany. A lot of small systems from the 70's - Of course since this museum started out as a company nuseum of Nixdorf. - The Deutsches Museum in Munich - THE science museum - I think #1 worldwide - the only thing coming close anyhwere might be the Smithonian Collections. A museum about almost anything. Also including a small Computer display - some 12,000 sqft. They have things like Zuse Z3 replika, Z22, Siemens 2002, PERM, IBM 360/20, TR4, Mark 1...realy impressiv. Althrough I think the modern part is a bit .. hmm .. lets say more like a junk yard - only a PC and a PET hidden in a sidecase and other random parts ... :( - They (the Deutsches Museum) opened a subsidary in Bonn some time ago (Kohl wanted to have such things in hs 'capitol' city :) - But this museum is nice, and well done, but more political/modern historical orientated - only 3 pices are special computer orientated: parts of a Z23 computer (afair the drum), some boxes of the SUPRENUM Project, and a 1 meg chip from VEB Forschungszentrum Mikroelektronik Dresden - the last East German high tech product - they almost ruined their industry - any research money available and a lot more was spend for this development. Beside these, maybe the RWTH in Aaachen (Aachen university) could be an interesting place - they have a small display of big old stuff ... Aachen, Bonn and Paderborn might be close enough to the westen border (Begique/Holland). Oh yes, and maybe send Stefan Walgenbach a mail - he is building the HCM (Home Computer Museum) in Oberhausen, thats just 60km east of the Dutch border. Maybe he invites you to see his collection of classic 80's small and home- computers - he has a big heap of european (English, French and German) home computers. Some hints about your planned tour would help. And if you come to Munich (Deutsches Museum) I would be glad to show you the museum, the city and bragg with my collection :) Servus H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 06:58:11 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: DigiComp (was Re: how many computers?) In-Reply-To: <199807150716.AAA10500@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 15, 98 00:16:13 am Message-ID: <199807151158.HAA07495@user2.infinet.com> Re: DigiComp People who's names are lost to time wrote: > >>Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never > >>owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional > >>letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest > >>to resurrect the product. > >I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years > >ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Docs are available at http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ > Sounds like you had fun! > The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various > colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but if > you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you > recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as required. > That's the kind of thing > I might do... > -Dave It's molded plastic, but not quite as simple as cut sheet. Also, the clocking is propagated by bent metal rods. I remember having to fashion a replacement rod that resembled a squared-off question mark (lower right side of rear view on page 3 (http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/p4.gif)) I suppose that if you had one example of all the parts, you could manufacture replacements, but having used one myself, the tolerances would have to be in the vicinity of one or two 18 gauge wire diameters or else the logic would be too sloppy. If I were going to build one for myself from scratch, I'd probably try to make one out of aluminum and grease it with graphite. I don't know if anybody out there has every worked with die-cut cardboard, but it might be possible to set up a jig to stamp them out of thick (~1 mm) fine-grained shirt cardboard. To make a die-cut jig, you stick strategically placed razor blades in a block of hardwood, and at the corners, you glue down small (~1 cm2) foam pads to help clear the product out when you release the pressure. It would be easy to check for tolerance - the real plastic part should fit neatly into the outline, but not fall down between the blades (resting just inside the cutting edge) I don't guarantee weeks and weeks of use with a cardboard DigiComp unless you soak at least the clock end in some sort of epoxy or adhesive to plasticise it. I, however, do not have a DigiComp to replicate. Anybody else? Disclaimer: I'm not a mechanical engineer, just an amateur woodworker. Take these hints and observation as the free advice they are. -ethan From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 07:02:11 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> >Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw >together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the >offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut >thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing >"spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. >Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such slime would resort to it...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 15 07:20:21 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment In-Reply-To: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 09:01:53 pm Message-ID: <199807151220.IAA28841@shell.monmouth.com> > > > >A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but > >lacks the instructions to do the deed. > >Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? > > Have your friend contact me off-line at work... I may have some RP06 > manuals in my collection. Maybe one of them is a maintenance guide > which explains it... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > It's a bit tricky without the Perch tester -- but it can be done. The trick is "windage" -- the top heads and bottom heads tend to float differently with the wind tunnel open. I seem to remember having the top heads floating -20 on the meter, the bottom +20 and then the stuff would drop in on line with the windtunnel closed. Give me a call if I can be of any help. I've never done 'em without the tester, but I think an analog multimeter may work. Bill From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 15 07:28:43 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 14, 98 06:31:14 pm Message-ID: <199807151228.IAA03007@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > > > > < > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? > > < > > > < > Yes. > > < > > < I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. > > > > Bill, you just got the good memory award. ;) > > Were hard disk packs interchangable between any different DEC drives? I > know that RK02 and RK05, RL01 and RL02, RK06 and RK07 packs didn't > interchange. > > > > > Allison > > > > > > -tony > > For the history books: RM02/RM03 (same drive, different spindle speed) RP04/RP05 (different mfg. RP05 (Memorex) was a half-density RP06 designed as a replacement for ISS-Sperry RP04's. The ones at DEC training in RP05/6 class were prototypes labeled RP04-II RK03 and RK05 did I believe (RK03 being a Diablo drive. RK05 was DEC's replacement) RX01/RX02 of course Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 07:58:06 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <199807150053.AA28643@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 08:53:37 pm Message-ID: <199807151258.IAA08448@user2.infinet.com> > > > >DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > >PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a > >regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a > >BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular > >than the "designer" panels. > > I actually have one of those desks (I bought it from DEC Salvage about > 12 or so years ago). Yes, the left side had a 19" wide set of standard > rails... but there was also a 19" wide set of rails on the right, only > accessable from the back. This was a perfect spot for a power > controller. I, too, have one of these desks. A PDP-8/a fits in that shallow set of rails, but it's a bitch to install/deinstall because of the fans on the outside of the CPU chassis. It's worth it, because you can have an -8 with RX02 and RL01 all in one place, a recessed well for a VT52, *and* on the front, a working power switch (to a DEC power controller) and boot switch (to the DKC8-A?) When I was in college, I had mine set up thusly in the living room. Mind you, even in the mid-80's it elicited comment from visitors. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 08:37:20 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <009801bdaf80$b8c5fe20$4712fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 14, 98 07:23:21 pm Message-ID: <199807151337.JAA08933@user2.infinet.com> > > Well, I have DOS 1.1 (May, 1982) and Windows 1.03. In fact, I'm in the > process of de-compiling DOS 1.1, now. BootSector: done. IBMBIO: 75% done. > IBMDOS: not started yet. > > I'm still looking for DOS 1.0. In fact, I have copies of many true-IBM > dos-es (not OEM versions). I may be able to help... I worked for a company in the early '80's, Bruce and James. They wrote a program for the PC called WordVision, intended to be the first of what we now call an office suite. It required 96K of RAM, a floppy disk and DOS 1.0 or higher. The install disk was, IIRC, DOS 1.0. The only hitch is that it's copy protected. You had to boot the original floppy and run an installation program to make slave disks. You could then copy the application from the slave disks to other diskettes or a hard drive. If only the program didn't use a cycle-counting key repeat loop, it'd still work on newer hardware. If teledisk or some such can package up the disk image, I can see about making it available for such a worthy project. I wanted to dig through the disk anyway, to look for the oft-discussed Digital Research strings. It's not a full DOS 1.0 kit, but it is the bootsector, IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS. Let me know if you are interested. -ethan From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 09:39:45 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 15, 98 07:54:36 am Message-ID: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/fdda2e2f/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:50:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151350.AA11089@world.std.com> < Interesting peripherals from late 1970's when I was going a lot. < 1. SWTP CT-1024 modified for 64 columns and graphics. Hope to get this < working again with some computer. I have one of those operation with the same mod! All of my collection I listed are tested operational systems. The unique boards I've built for my own use are not listed nor are some of the inop stuff salvaged for parts. I also didn't list the parts supply as that would need a T1 link to get though reasonably. I have a lot of OLD parts that were new purchase at one time! ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:50:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151350.AA11232@world.std.com> < Alright for some :-). Alas most of us don't have access to a clean room. < Even if I was working at a place which had one, I can't believe they'd be < too happy if I wandered in with an HDA and started stripping it. Majorly true. I worked in pharmaceuticals and though they didn't use super clean rooms (class 10,000 worst case) the equipment was under a laminar airflow curtain with a flow of 100 linear feet per minute and the air under there was class 100. The air flow was obvious ly of the the machine then into the room where super clean was less important. < I would have thought looking for backscattered light would be more < sensitive and easier to set up. Still not sensitive enough for a clean < box, of course (in this form). The air flow and the sensing area cross section are important. Using a light source like a laser is helpful in getting the backscatter brighter. This is the problem of how many Angeles can dance on the end of a pin. You build a clean box and use a good HEPA filter. With 100-200cfm of incomming clean air once the dust in the box has been blown out it will be clean especially if gloved hands are the only thing inside. I'e heard a lot of "good luck", "it will not last" and "too dirty" from those that haven't. I've done it, when RD53s and 54s were in desperately short supply here and it does work without the clean box with some care. Obvious tricks like wearing nylon gloves to avoid finger prints, a canister of dry air to blow things off and keeping the unit covered when possible all reduce risk. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:51:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module Message-ID: <199807151351.AA11730@world.std.com> < >a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with < >"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon < >cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and < >peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. My guess the tape is not tu58 but a DC100/300/600 series tape. There wasn't a tu58 that mounted to a 5.25hole unless it was a hack. Also TU58 is easy to recognize as the drives are bare (no electornics) and the use a board that is roughly 5x10" with serial interface to the host. Also TU58 was a dual drive system though it could be configured with only one. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:51:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151351.AA11945@world.std.com> < Now, my question. Let's say a single head crashes. This would raise up < some dust off the platter, right? Would it be possible to recover the < material that wasn't destroyed by the dragging head? What if this < deformed the platter? Head crashes are always bad. What generally happens for 5" and 3.5" winis is the head is ripped off the mount, slammed against the wall and shattered. the free arm gouges the platter badly. the metal dust from the grinding gets into the rest of the heads and it cascades. If shut down when the head first goes the platter will be shot. Repair would be trying to get head and arm assembly, another drive to get a good platter from. Then there is the problem of disassembleing the platter drive assy as many are "glued and screwed" and maintaining tolerances on assembly. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:52:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151352.AA12420@world.std.com> < I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty < < Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. < Sam, If traced back to you, the action you've taken is covered by law so you could be at risk. I agree that bunch is a problem as are the earthlink sex girls that are apparently not anywhere from earthlink. Allison From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 09:08:12 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <199807142032.NAA20254@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Jul 14, 98 01:32:19 pm Message-ID: <199807151408.KAA09692@user2.infinet.com> > > > DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > > PDP-8s used for small business office applications... Shawn Rutledge writes: > I have one of these at home. It has a lowered part of the desktop for the > monitor. I got it at ASU surplus but it was empty except for a power > controller (there are switches right below the desktop on the right side of > the rack part, and one of them controls the power controller, but I'm not > sure what the other is for.) Rebooting the PDP-8/a. -ethan From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 15 09:11:38 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980715091138.00bf63c0@pc> At 06:39 AM 7/15/98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >Gees, I feel kind of left out. I've been maintaining the RT-11 sig tapes >for most of a decade now, and when somebody finds a pile nobody thinks >about asking me. I think they will now. >(I have nightmares about the only remaining >copy of the Fall 77 tape being chewed up by a person who throws it >on a 9-track drive without taking all the precautions....!) One of the sections of my web page is devoted to preserving the history of the UCSD P-System. According to Ken Bowles, head of the project, he kept source disks to all releases for versions III and IV in storage for about fifteen years, then he decided they were useless and that the world had no interest in them, so he threw them out. A few years after that, he started receiving inquiries about that source. By that time, any of the subsequent licensees of the P-System and UCSD Pascal no longer had any copies of that source, either. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Jul 15 11:20:51 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <6525@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807151425.JAA31760@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an 80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although I don't recall the clock speed). The Powersupply and floppy drives were in one unit, and the CPU was in another. It had a CGA compatible display adaptor. It also had what appeared to be an ISA bus, but most stock PeeCee cards would cause problems. I hacked this one by adding an 8-bit Hard disk controller, and disabling the HDC bios ROM. There was support for the HDC in the MAD-186 ROM, but the harddisk was not a standard option (AFAIK). I think this is the only computer I ever destroyed on purpose, and out of spite, no less. When we bought our 1st '286, my wife urged me to give the MAD to her brother. I really should have resisted, because the thing became a support nightmare. "Can I put a joystick on this?" "Uhh, whats an 'ERROR TRAP'?" "Uhh, RatRacer keeps locking up, can you fix this?" The computer got passed around the family, and I finally ended up with it about three years ago, when it was summarily smashed into little pieces-- retribution for countless sleepless nights when I had to play 'Tech Support'. I had been driven to the edge of MADness. Needless to say I wasn't into CLASSICS yet. I DID save the part with the PS and flopy disk drives, though . . . Jeff At 11:29 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee >but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest >computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 >PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. > >Just curious... I just like the concept... >Perhaps they should have used the slogan... > >"Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!" > >Or perhaps not... > >Thomas > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 09:24:17 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151432.KAA20376@charity.harvard.net> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:14 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > > > > > Actually, there is a little known difference on the power > supply board > > between a beige Mac plus and a Platinum Mac Plus. Just a > diode but boy > > Were they both Capetronics designs? The one in my Mac+ (is > there an easy > way to tell them apart when it's been dicoloured by sunlight...) is. > > Where is the diode connected between, and which version has it? > I really dont remember where it is. This was back in 1988 or so :) Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 15 09:39:29 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee MAD = Magnetic Anomoly Detector Or in other words it's used in Anti-Submarine Warfare. (Sorry couldn't resist, yes I realize in this case this isn't what you meant.) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 09:44:25 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 06:39 15-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >> > The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave >> >Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, >> >folks! >> >> Any chance someone could determine if there are any sig tapes among the >> stack which aren't currently available from any of the pdp-11 archives >> and make sure the archives get a copy? (Tim Shoppa?) > >Gees, I feel kind of left out. I've been maintaining the RT-11 sig tapes >for most of a decade now, and when somebody finds a pile nobody thinks >about asking me. <> Tim, I deeply apologize. Not being heavily into RT11, I didn't know you were maintaining the tape archive. I've not sent them off yet, and I think I will not until I know for sure what's not in the archive. I've already discovered one (1986 Fall, San Francisco) that's not, so I will copy it and send it your way. What's your postal address? The others all seem to be listed, but none of the block counts shown on the list match with those on the tapes. In just about every case, the tape shows either 4-10 blocks less, or at least twice what's shown in the list. Can someone enlighten me as to why this may be so? Anyway... John, if you're reading this, be patient! I'll get them to you via separate box if need be. It looks like I may need to run some copies for the archives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 12:05:54 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151452.QAA27933@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > trying to shutdown the relays. > I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty > high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is > to include your email address as the return address in their forged > headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. > Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. Thats one thing I realy like about the German laws - spamming via any kind of personal device is forbidden - no fax-spam, no telex spam and no e-mail spam. Spaming is considered stealing your property, since the spammer uses your fax paper and your power line to print his message, and/or your time to check and delete spam. And theft is just unlawful :) After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country like senseless US-Spamm :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 15 09:59:11 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Thanks, Marty From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 10:06:12 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA In-Reply-To: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715080612.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 10:59 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Good Lord... unless I miss my guess, that's from a System/390 mainframe! Let me guess... dual head positioners on either side, yes? And big connectors with about a zillion pins? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 15 09:19:33 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <004301bdaffb$9b29c560$a8f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Speaking of, does *67 cost? I've been up to the same pranks as Sam, w/ a local "mass marketer." I vaguely recalled it being a feature that cost nothing, but I never was sure. Sorry to keep this thread going, as humourous as it is :) -Eric >Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to >disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, >they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such >slime would resort to it...) > > Megan Gentry From kevan at heydon.org Wed Jul 15 10:18:52 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807151432.KAA20376@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: The list of machines I have is: ACT Apricot Acorn Atom, BBC Micro, Cambridge Workstation, Electron, System 5 Amstrad CPC 464, CPC 6128, CPC 664 Apollo DN3000 Apple II+, Lisa 2, Mac SE Atari 400, 800, 800XL Bondwell Model 2 CGL M5 Cambridge Computer Cambridge Z88 Camputers Lynx Casio PB-100 Commodore CBM 3032, CBM 8032-SK, CBM 8096, VIC-20, plus/4 Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie, Video Genie EG3003 Epson HX-20 Exidy Sorcerer HP 85, 9000/217 IBM PC (5150) Jupiter Ace Matra Alice, Alice 90 Mattel Aquarius Memotech MTX 512, RS 128 Nascom 2 Oric 1, Atmos Osborne 1 Radio Shack Color Computer, TRS-80 Model 1, TRS-80 Model 3 Research Machines RM Link 480Z SMS 1000 Sage II & IV Science Of Cambridge MK 14 Sharp MZ-711, MZ-80K Sinclair QL, Spectrum, Spectrum+, ZX Spectrum +2, ZX Spectrum +2A, ZX Spectrum +3, ZX80, ZX81 Sun 4/110 TI TI-99/4A Tatung Einstein Thomson M05 Toshiba HX-10, T1000SE This list is taken from a database which is getting a little out of date and some things have never made it into the system, so to add to this list there are these too: Torch Triple X, Torch C Series, Another couple of Thompson M0X machines, Apple Portable, Dec Rainbow, Sun 2/120, Whitechapel MG1 I also collect calculators, video game consoles, and handheld games but I won't list them here. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 11:20:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 15, 98 07:44:25 am Message-ID: <9807151520.AA25279@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1978 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/921633f0/attachment.ksh From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 12:36:27 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151522.RAA29934@marina.fth.sbs.de> > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote: >> Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee >> but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest >> computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 >> PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. > I e-bumped into a guy who knows *all* about MAD. I've captured some of > his knowledge for posterity: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ Thanks Doug. Now I know - I have to have a MAD1 - I _must_ have any 80186/88 system ever build - just a obsession - maybe because I like the PC-D a lot .) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 11:42:02 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 15, 98 08:02:11 am Message-ID: <9807151542.AA24719@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/3d53ead1/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 11:15:05 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151617.QAA22618@cyber2.servtech.com> At 21:13 14-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > >**** snip **** > >> A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is >> built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the > >**** and again **** > >Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? OOOPS!! No, Don, I just slipped a gear! I was tired and my hunt-and-peck typing gets more lousy than normal and my visual spell check fails. Sorry, it's of course 99.97% Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:19:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980715161909.20889.qmail@hotmail.com> Let me tell you why one of my keyboards now has an 'enter' key with the corner smashed off by a hammer: the damn Packard Bell with all integrated serial ports, hard disk controller, etc. wouldn't let me set my modem up on COM2 or COM4. Plus, this took very long to verify because the hard disk controller makes the IDE act like a C= 1541. >> I will say this, though: At this point in the evolution of computers, if >> you find users of your systems are wanting regularly to add on more than >> three (or so) cards or sidecar modules, you have drastically misevaluated >> your target market and deserve to start haemorrhaging market share. IMO. > >No way!. Maybe for the average consumer PC (build the disk controllers, >serial/parallel ports, etc into the motherboard), but in my case I'll >want all sorts of strange special-purpose cards (user I/O, ADC, I2C, >special disk controllers, etc, etc, etc). > >I've managed to fill the 14 slots in a PC/XT+expansion chassis and still >wanted more!. BTW, is it possible to build one of those? How does it work? >> Those don't count. (: Even the monitor and power supply hookups are BERG >> strips. Sick. What is a BERG strip? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:23:30 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715162330.18644.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm not sure what that means, but I assume that the servo surface contains a sort of coordinate system that the servo head reads and thus guides the other heads. If that assumption is correct, why isn't it possible to realign the thing with another servo platter? >Of course if it's a drive with a separate servo surface and the servo >head is the one that's crashed then you lose everything. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:27:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715162738.23719.qmail@hotmail.com> Spinrite is most famous for low-level formatting, which is only allowed on old MFM drives, most IDE drives have a sticker that says "Do not low-level format this drive". When I used a Model D with a hardcard, I loved this program. I ran it twice a day because I had nothing else to do :) As for bad sectors, what's up with that? Why is it that sometimes a bad sector will be marked bad, then I can format a drive and have it use those 'bad sectors' just fine? > > well, I personally have never opened up a hard drive, if nothing else >because I've never had an extra to pop open (i'm too frugal. hehe.) > > Regardless, I have found the program "Spinrite" to work great on IDE >drives; it goes through and can fix bad sectors, or mark them totally >unusable. this really differs from standard formats/etc, because I've been >able to take drives w/ 30mb of bad sectors and get it to 0 bad sectors, and >still running fine w/ no problems after a year. i believe they are on >version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and >doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 >drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. > > >-Eric > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 15 11:35:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment In-Reply-To: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13371884597.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Have your friend] Oh, you mean call from Sweeden? (The "friend" is Anders Magnesson, port maintainer for NetBSD/vax) ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:37:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715163702.12116.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone have an old copy of Spinrite or know of a place where I could get it? How much does the latest one go for? >I truely hate the brain-damaged program >ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have >known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a >problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few hundred >drives I have worked on. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 15 11:36:43 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807150106.AA10383@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13371884743.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [We built out own...] Oooh! Scan! Scan! ------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 11:41:40 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > trying to shutdown the relays. Well, considering they are still using the same sites (typically ibm.net, att.net and mci.com) I don't think they're paying much attention. > I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty > high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is > to include your email address as the return address in their forged > headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. That's the beauty of the Spaminator: there is no e-mail address to associate this with. As far as they know, they are being called by some maniacal contraption from somewhere. IF they are able to figure out where the calls are coming from, IF they can get their service provider to look into it, and IF the service provider even has the capability to look into it, then what? I'm not terribly worried. Also, the beauty of a T-1 is that the rates are so damn cheap! :) > Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some manner of cheap and effective restitution. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:52:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <19980715165251.6951.qmail@hotmail.com> Clearly a very innovative company. It would be nice if all PC clone manufacturers added a little of their own abilities (well, perhaps not :) to their computers. > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:01:52 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <19980715170152.23930.qmail@hotmail.com> Speaking of TELEX, they once had the tan-colored 286 boxes, pretty small, with only a 3.5" fdd and a hardcard. They had a BNC connector emanating from the motherboard. Does anyone know what that was for? If it's a network card, does anyone know about drivers? >I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was >a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an >80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although >I don't recall the clock speed). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 14:13:17 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151659.SAA05354@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee > MAD = Magnetic Anomoly Detector > Or in other words it's used in Anti-Submarine Warfare. NoNo. MAD = Militaerischer Abschirmdienst (military counter inteligence) > (Sorry couldn't resist, yes I realize in this case this isn't what you meant.) dto :) H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:04:48 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715170448.7166.qmail@hotmail.com> Here in the US, we're spammed by the government, too. Though I'm under 18 and not a US citizen besides, I've gotten at least 30 requests for jury duty. BTW, what is the earliest incidence of e-mail spam? >After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is >almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country >like senseless US-Spamm :) > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 15 12:04:29 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write: << I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. >> hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything! david From van at wired.com Wed Jul 15 12:08:50 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam... You are fantastic. van >This is totally off-topic but this is the kind of thing you all can >appreciate, and it may even help some of you. > >For the last several months I have constantly been spammed by what can be >described as Son-of-Spamford. There's some spam e-mail software marketing >company in Los Angeles that sends out millions of these messages I guess. >They use web crawlers that steal e-mail addresses from web pages. They >then send out this spam letter with forged headers and false return >addresses. Very annoying. However, they do include a phone number and >address at the end of the spam. Interesting. I've included the message >at the end of this message so you can see if you've been spammed by these >assholes as well. > >I was so incensed at one point that I was almost going to buy a plane >ticket, fly down to L.A. with a box full of this spam e-mail printed out, >kick the door open to the office that these guys are in, find the >president of this "company", beat the shit out of him (or pimp-slap her), >then start shoving the printouts down this person's throat (yes, this is >rather violent :) > >But I soon figured out that the address was merely a private mailbox, and >the phone number rings into a voicemail box. Hmmm. Well, I have the >resources to find out where this number rings in to, possibly track down >the service provider, but then what? Then I realized, "Hey, I have a PBX, >a T-1 and a voicemail system with 16 ports...its time to have some fun." > >Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw >together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the >offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut >thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing >"spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. >Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. > >I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a >Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall >Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few >others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for each >call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. >The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box >with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they >won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them >much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't >stop coming. > >The last I checked the Spaminator had played over 100 spam tunes into >their voicemail box. I am ecstatic. The Spaminator will continue to run >over night. Tomorrow morning I will check its progress (it keeps a log of >all tunes it plays so I know how many it did). > >If anyone is interested in utilizing the Spaminator for spaminating other >egregious spammers, let me know. I can easily program it to >simultaneously call out to other phone numbers and sing a symphony of spam >for them as well. > >I hope that my simple solution brings some manner of grief to these >idiots, whoever they are. Ideally it will give them more anguish than >their constant barrage of spam has brought me. I will not relent. My >next step is to try and track down the actual owners of this "business", >try to find out their other phone numbers (preferrably home numbers) and >unleash the Spaminator on those numbers as well. > >Thanks for letting me vent. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:16:46 -0700 >From: "***Bull*sEye)*" <33rq2w@att.net> >To: vcoffey@bu.edu > >Authenticated sender is <33rq2w@att.net> >Subject: ++BullsEye-*Targeting*Software*)+ >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! > >Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. >This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email >addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect >anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can >even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and >even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. >Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called >"spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting >website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website >to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of >fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting, the >spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to >send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to >get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!! > >A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is >no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo >to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted >market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the >rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide >you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the >location of a search engine on your browser then search for the >market you wish to reach...it's that easy! > >For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors >in New York all you would do is: > >1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in >the words doctor(s) and New York >2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the >http://... for instance it might look like >http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York >3) Press the START button > >THAT's IT!!! The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites >that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses >you want. > >The spider is passive too! That means you can let it run all >day or all night while you are working on important things or >just having fun on your computer. There is no need to keep a >constant watch on it, just feed it your target market and give >it praise when it delivers thousands of email addresses at >the end of the day! > >Features of the Bull's Eye Software: > >* Does TARGETED searches of websites collecting the email > addresses you want! >* Collects Email addresses by City, State, even specific > Countries >* Runs Automatically...simply enter the Starting information, > press The Start Button, and it does the rest >* Filters out duplicates >* Keeps track of URLs already visited >* Can run 24 hours per day, 7 days per week >* Fast and Easy List Management >* Also has built in filtering options...you can put in words > that it "Must" have while searching,...you can even put in > criteria that it "Must NOT Have"...giving you added flexibility >* Also imports email addresses from any kind of files (text > files, binary files, database files) >* List editor handles Multiple files to work on many lists > simultaneously >* Has a Black-Book feature... avoid sending emails to people > who do not want to receive it >* Built-in Mail program...send email directly on the internet > with just a click of your mouse >* Personalized Emails...if the email address has the user's > name when it is collected,..you can send Personalized emails!!! >* Sort by Location, Server, User Name, Contact Name >* Advanced Operations: > Email address lists export in many different formats > (HTML, Comma delimited, text file) > Advanced editing...Transfer, Copy, Addition, Delete, Crop, > Move to Top/Bottom > Operations between lists...Union, Subtraction, Comparison >* Program is Passive,...meaning you can run other programs at > the same time > >CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION 213-427-5820 >CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION 213-427-5820 > >ORDERING INFORMATION > >Customer Name >Company Name >Address >City >State Zip >Phone Fax >Email Address > >______ BULL'S EYE SOFTWARE $259.00 >Includes Software, Instructions, Technical Support > >______ Shipping & Handling (2-3 Day Fedex) $10.00 > (Fedex Overnite) $20.00 > >______ TOTAL > (CA Residents add applicable sales tax) > >*All orders are for Win 95 and Win NT > > *****CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED***** > MASTERCARD VISA AMEX > > PLEASE CALL 213-427-5820 to process your order > 9am-5pm Pacific Time > Checks or Money Orders send to: > WorldTouch Network Inc. >5670 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2170 Los Angeles, CA 90036 >Please note: Allow 5 business days for all checks to >clear before order is shipped. > > >*If you would like your email address removed, please >write us at the above address. ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:12:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715171251.8743.qmail@hotmail.com> A short refresher on human psychology. Most of the time, a clearly thinking person does not do anything they consider wrong. Your spammer thinks he is doing someone a favor, and your songs are disrespectful teasing of his honest attempt to make money. Lawsuits are more effective because if he continues to do it, he'll lose all the money he made, maybe even go to jail. That said, keep up the good work :) >> Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. > >I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some >manner of cheap and effective restitution. > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 15 12:31:00 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C1@mail.simconv.com> Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will keep those spammers out of my mailbox. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Lawsuits are more effective because if he continues to do it, he'll lose all the money he made, maybe even go to jail. From wanderer at bos.nl Wed Jul 15 14:26:10 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Europe tour Message-ID: <35AD0252.778E@bos.nl> If they still have it, the is an old PDP in the Utrecht office of Digital. As far as I can remember (have seen it at least 10 years ago) it's blue, has 3 panels and the centerpanel has a round tube (a scope tube?). There were also a lot of switches on the panels. I believe that the University in Utrecht has a museum of some sort with various computers which they used over the years. You might like to go to the Waterloo square in Amsterdam, every Monday till Friday there is a flea market, and certainly there will be some vintage stuff for sale. Ed From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 15 12:38:03 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: <1998Jul15.133732.1767.119039@smtp.itgonline.com> Yes, dual head positioners on both sides plus four twenty pin connectors on both sides as well. David is correct as well, I have confirmed this HDA is from an IBM 4381 mainframe and uses a 3880 controller. Does this HDA have a lineage that goes back to the IBM Ramac? Any idea when this HDA was introduced? It certainly will make a great paper weight. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/15/98 11:07 AM At 10:59 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Good Lord... unless I miss my guess, that's from a System/390 mainframe! Let me guess... dual head positioners on either side, yes? And big connectors with about a zillion pins? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul15.110730.1767.51412; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:07:31 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA07163; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:18 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA43306 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:13 -0700 Received: from repop1.jps.net (repop1.jps.net [208.25.63.34]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA07964 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:12 -0700 Received: from seleth (sea-port157.jps.net [209.63.189.116]) by repop1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA07712 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980715080612.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:06:12 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Bruce Lane To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA In-Reply-To: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kyrrin@mail.wa.jps.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 15:05:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151751.TAA07749@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. > Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is > now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will > keep those spammers out of my mailbox. USD five ? HoHoHo. Stoping after request isnt exactly whats needed - The SPAM is already done. And getting a replay will make the address more valuable: now it is validates - the spammer now could sell the address to s.o. else for a single usage without any fear of beeing prosecuted. And you could still spamm the other people. And even if - Send out 5000 SPAMs and get 10 complains and pay USD 50 - thats USD 0.01 per 'customer contact' still _very_ cheap. I don't know if you ever looked into marketing, but companies are paying up to USD 20.00 for a singe use of ONE address. I don't think ths law will have any impact - very spaming friendly. Just done to get votes but avoide any change. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 12:57:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> < OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk < is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies I've had for over 8years. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 12:57:02 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151757.AA22179@world.std.com> < I'm not sure what that means, but I assume that the servo surface < contains a sort of coordinate system that the servo head reads and thus < guides the other heads. If that assumption is correct, why isn't it < possible to realign the thing with another servo platter? First it depends if the servo is embedded or dedicated platter or stepper (or other absolute positioner). For dedicated platter one head is assigned as the servo head and since they are all mechanically one assembly the rest just follow along. Now if a platter is changed it's data may be offset relative to the others. Same thing is true for replacing a head as the RELATIVE alignment between heads is disturbed. This case I believer the disk can be low level formatted and reused but existant data may be lost. If servo information does not exist (DeMIL'd drive) it's likely good for parts as servo tracks are hard to regenerate. If it's embedded servo per head each head as selected will follow the selected track servo signals and making relative head alignment less critical. If the servo is blown there is no way to regenerate easily. For cases of absolute positioners like older ST506/412/225/251 (and a swarm of others) drives getting alignment to cylinder 000 and beteeen heads would be critical for complete data recovery. If the drive is to be reformatted however a bulk erase and reformat will establish new tracks in some cases and make a mess in others. In the case of removable pack drives that is a totally different can of worms though simpler as they so have alignment procedures for field or depot use. Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 13:11:03 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: C64 parts Message-ID: <199807151813.OAA12343@charity.harvard.net> Okay, I'm gonna come right out and ask it... Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/4f1e9c97/attachment.bin From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 14:14:47 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 15, 98 01:57:14 pm Message-ID: <9807151814.AA16463@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/fab0dc95/attachment.ksh From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 15 13:24:41 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: C64 parts In-Reply-To: <199807151813.OAA12343@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: Paxtron and CMD come to mind. Paxtron has much better prices. The best source is a 64 or 128 from your local thrift. :) Cheers, Dan On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Okay, I'm gonna come right out and ask it... > > Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips > mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require > replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. > > Thanks > Tony > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 15 13:38:10 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C3@mail.simconv.com> This is a case of the law being intended (originally) for quite different purposes. The story behind it is that the Nevada Legislature has an email system where the public can send comments to the lawmakers when the Legislature is in session (every other year for a few months). It seems last year someone flamed one of the senior politicians, he got pissed off, claimed it was racially motivated hate mail and tried to outlaw flaming. Someone (the state attorney general) pointed out to him his proposed law violated both free speech and right to petition for redress in the Constitution, but he wouldn't back down and withdraw his bill, so to keep it legal it was changed to an anti-spam law, and in theory flame mail can be legally defined as spam too. No one expects this law to ever be enforced. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke [mailto:franke@sbs.de] USD five ? I don't think ths law will have any impact - very spaming friendly. Just done to get votes but avoide any change. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 15 13:19:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980715131926.30777f74@intellistar.net> Tony, Do you have any more info on those clear 71s? I'd like to have one. I do have some clear ROM port covers for the 71. Joe At 06:40 PM 7/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new >> model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal > >I'd heard that they used to do this (clear HP71's have been spotted, for >example), but with the improvements in CAD systems they no longer do so. > >-tony > > From blindpete at stratos.net Wed Jul 15 03:36:12 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <199807151901.MAA05661@mxu1.u.washington.edu> On 1998-07-13 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said: cl{Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called cl{Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand cl{that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat cl{like an Apple II. cl{Thanx cl{------------------------------------------------------ cl{http://www.voicenet.com/~generic cl{gene@ehrich.com cl{Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 cl{------------------------------------------------------ Hi I used to have one a long time ago, the laser 128 is an Apple 2 C clone. It runs at about one and a third or some thing like that, MHZ. Has a 5.25 inch built in flopy 180 K I think and /ram drive in slot 3 drive 1 I think. It isn't a tam card or any thing like that that is just where the system has the ram drive. I had a later model laser 128 ex this one was cruzzing at 3.6 MHZ, also it had a conecter for an external 3.5 inch flopy. Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 13:06:45 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807151350.AA11232@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28045@cyber2.servtech.com> At 09:50 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >< Alright for some :-). Alas most of us don't have access to a clean room. >< Even if I was working at a place which had one, I can't believe they'd be >< too happy if I wandered in with an HDA and started stripping it. > >Majorly true. > >I worked in pharmaceuticals and though they didn't use super clean rooms >(class 10,000 worst case) the equipment was under a laminar airflow curtain >with a flow of 100 linear feet per minute and the air under there was class >100. The air flow was obvious ly of the the machine then into the room >where super clean was less important. This is the case in our cleanroom. I do in fact already work on stuff that has to be kept clean by taking it into the cleanroom. I work on it in a room area that is not in the 'critical' clean region of the group of rooms consisting of the whole cleanroom. Our cleanroom is built to class 10,000 but as Allison states, because of the laminar flow (figure an air flow pattern kept strictly parallel to the direction it is traveling, no turbulence) the cleanest areas in those critical areas are under that air curtain. If I took a 5.25" DEC drive in there to work on, it would be at a desk in front of a Balzers vacuum coating system which uses four LSI-11/23 (KDJ11-AA) processors for controlling various parts of itself (we do NOT load substrate for coating through the front door, we only clean and maintain the unit there, therefore it is one of the "dirtiest" areas of the cleanroom). The drive would feel it is amongst friends . > >< I would have thought looking for backscattered light would be more >< sensitive and easier to set up. Still not sensitive enough for a clean >< box, of course (in this form). > >The air flow and the sensing area cross section are important. Using a >light source like a laser is helpful in getting the backscatter brighter. > >This is the problem of how many Angeles can dance on the end of a pin. >You build a clean box and use a good HEPA filter. With 100-200cfm of >incomming clean air once the dust in the box has been blown out it will be >clean especially if gloved hands are the only thing inside. > >I'e heard a lot of "good luck", "it will not last" and "too dirty" from >those that haven't. I've done it, when RD53s and 54s were in desperately >short supply here and it does work without the clean box with some care. >Obvious tricks like wearing nylon gloves to avoid finger prints, a canister >of dry air to blow things off and keeping the unit covered when possible >all reduce risk. > > >Allison > I feel that when precautions and care are taken such as what Allison states above, one would have a quite functional cleanbox workstation. He/she could be fairly confident that intrusion of the platter area of a drive would yield a successful repair -if the source of a problem is indeed found(!). --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 12:40:24 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28038@cyber2.servtech.com> At 22:25 14-07-98 -0500, you wrote: >I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each >in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops >along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage >portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in >Europe? > Doug, if you indeed do go to Munich to see the Deutches Museum I suggest you set aside at least a _full_ day to see only a couple of sections or several days to see most of the museum. Roller skates or rollerblades would be of great help to see more in less time I'm the type of person who studies a museum and have spent two to four hours in each of the few sections I've visited during the three different visits to the Deutches Museum. As Hans just said in a previous msg in this thread, the computer section is indeed about 12,000 square feet. Loved it! Seriously, I do recommend seeing the collections at Deutches Museum to anybody who may visit Munich. Something for everybody. Check out URL: http://www.deutsches-museum.de/dme01.htm if you're interested. Have fun in Europe, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 14:01:09 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <199807142108.VAA24059@cyber2.servtech.com> References: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28050@cyber2.servtech.com> At 17:06 14-07-98 -0400, Chris Fandt wrote: >At 12:23 14-07-98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >>> board which I want to identify. >>> >>> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >>> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >>> from this system. >> >>Two 50-pin-headers strongly points towards this board being a >Pertec-formatted >>tape interface. (like the TC02/TC03). It could also be a communications >>multiplexer, like something from the CS series. >> >>> Anybody need to have more info to help ID this thing? >> >>There ought to be a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs >>that will give the part number and revision level. > >There is a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs from which this >C3987-C came from. This number was listed as a sub-assy number, IIRC. There >is a longer number at the top of the sticker. I'll post it tomorrow. This is "tomorrow". More details from that silvery sticker: "TOP ASSY TC0210201-FSH" "S/N 93395" "Sub ASSY C3987 C" Hmmm, that Top Assy number has TC02 in it Tim. Also, when looking at the board from the component side up, edge fingers downward, there is a male 26-pin header at top left and a male 20-pin header at top right. In top center is a 4-position DIP switch (SW1) and a single LED (CR1). Just to left of center and downward there are SW2 and SW3 which are both 10-position DIP switches. "C3987" is on a small bar coded sticker under the left-hand 50-pin header. With that TC02 in the Top Assy number would that mean this is indeed a TC02 tape I/F as you figured? If so what tape drive model(s) should I be looking for? > >There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape looks >like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's a >third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with "UDC11" >stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon cable goes >that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and peek inside >tonight and report what I find on these questions. Very quick peeking done: The single 50-conductor ribbon cable coming out of the "UDC11" goes to three mass storage units: the 5.25" floppy, the tape drive (it's a Syquest) and a full hight 5.25" hard drive made by, [what was that now? Dang lousy memory...) I think "Vector". Never heard of 'em. Gotta pull the tape and HD units out of the box and write the model numbers down. Anyway, the UDC11 is made by Andromeda Systems. UDC probably means in this case 'Universal Drive (or Device) Controller' since all of the storage devices hang off of it. Okay, anybody have any data on this Andromeda UDC11 module? I used the TU58 reference mostly as an example to give the relative size of the tape cartridge. It does look like a DC100-size would fit in the Syquest tape drive like what I use in my HP9825. Anyway, the Syquest name ought to be recognizable to some people as to the tape type. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:07:03 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Megan wrote: > Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to > disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, > they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such > slime would resort to it...) T-1 trunks don't pass along ANI, and certainly not Caller ID (Caller ID is technically different from ANI [automatic number identification] but the concept is the same). They'd have to really know what they were doing first of all, and second of all they'd have to know the right people to be able to trace the call. Even then, there's not much they can do without admitting that they are breaking several laws themselves for their egregious spamming practices. I only hope that they reveal themselves so I can really do some damage. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 14:11:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Anyone out there have... Message-ID: <199807151910.PAA18285@charity.harvard.net> A deceased C128 that would be willing to give up it's keyboard? I need a replacement for the C128 I'm refurbing. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1757 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/88f365f6/attachment.bin From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 14:13:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <19980715191356.22199.qmail@hotmail.com> First of all, I think that the latest Norton Utilities are soooo bloated, they possibly won't even run on a damaged computer. High-res pictures of your computer components are the latest thing you need when you can't find a vital data file. For example, what good is it to have a data recovery program you can't run if you just formatted your hard drive? That said, I think NU is a good tool, but Spinrite is still better than NDD. >First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools >should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. > >I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies >I've had for over 8years. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:22:02 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <004301bdaffb$9b29c560$a8f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Poesie wrote: > Speaking of, does *67 cost? I've been up to the same pranks as Sam, w/ a > local "mass marketer." I vaguely recalled it being a feature that cost > nothing, but I never was sure. Sorry to keep this thread going, as humourous > as it is :) Nope. *67 is a free "service" (more like a right). I have caller ID blocking by default. But then again, this wasn't done from my home (I may be stupid but I'm not crazy, or is that vice versa? :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 14:21:30 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151924.TAA28851@cyber2.servtech.com> At 21:13 14-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >>There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape >>looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's >>a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with >>"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon >>cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and >>peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. > >The BA23 was originally marketed with an 5.25" RD series drive and an >RX50 dual 5.25" floppy drive. Later, for the MicroVAX/VaxStationI/II/IIRC >system, the RX50 was replaced by a TK50. There was also a configuration >with an RX33 instead of either the RX50 or TK50. My uPDP has an RX50 and an as yet undetermined RD which I have to take out to see model designation. No time yet, but it is a "Vector" brand. Ever hear of this company? Confirm yes or no for me that an RX33 is a 3.5" floppy? > >A TU58 type tape drive sounds very strange for the BA23... maybe it >was packaged by someone else? (Would the single TU58 tape drive of >a Vax-11/730 be adaptable to the skids of a BA23 drive bay?) Well, it actually is not a TU58 as there are TU58's on both VAXen sitting in my garage. I was not sure yet if there were more than one "style" of case for a TU58. I mentioned TU58 anyway to try to give an idea to folks what size tape cartidge fits. Bad idea, Chris, bad idea. Go sit in the corner.... Anyway, the tape drive is a Syquest of some sort. Again, I have to remove the tape drive to determine the model number. No cartidge tapes of any sort were with any of the VAX or uPDP stuff; only three TK50 CompacTapes (sp.?) were with my uVAXII. So much stuff to go through and resolve questions, so little time available.... Sigh. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 14:31:33 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C1@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. > Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is > now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will > keep those spammers out of my mailbox. > Jack Peacock Well, it * might * discourage those who reside in Nevada, but it is not likely to even furrow the brow of those elsewhere! - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:41:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9807151542.AA24719@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Be careful; *67 doesn't stop "caller ID" if the number being called > is a 1-800 number. (Actually, it's not "caller ID" if it's a 1-800 > call, it's something quite different. It's more akin to the recipient > of a collect call getting to know the number the call was made from.) From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 14:22:40 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807151617.QAA22618@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > At 21:13 14-07-98 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > >**** snip **** > > > >> A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is > >> built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the > > > >**** and again **** > > > >Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? > > > OOOPS!! No, Don, I just slipped a gear! I was tired and my hunt-and-peck > typing gets more lousy than normal and my visual spell check fails. > > Sorry, it's of course 99.97% No problem, Chris, I would have settled for 99.7% :) - don From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 15:02:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > > trying to shutdown the relays. > > Well, considering they are still using the same sites (typically ibm.net, > att.net and mci.com) I don't think they're paying much attention. Nonsense. Pay no attention to the forged headers. Look at the IP address of the site that connected to your mail server (it should be in the real headers in a "received from" line). It'll be some ISP in Norway or someplace that probably has no idea they're being used as a gateway for spam. > I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some > manner of cheap and effective restitution. Well, it'll annoy their answering service at least. -- Doug From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 15:01:16 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Q-bus boards I need ID of... Message-ID: <199807152003.UAA00219@cyber2.servtech.com> There are actually three boards I need to ID, the third is possibly a tape controller. Here's the rundown: #1 A Q-bus dual width board made by DTC. Has a 50-pin header next to a single ejector handle. All TTL chips, no LSI or CMOS devices. Two 8-section DIP switches on board. Only markings are a FAB, ASSY, REV and S/N numbers. The ASSY number is 007-00002. Could this be a Q-bus SCSI board (I hope, I hope, I hope)? But there's no CPU or ASIC, etc. onboard to handle DMA, SCSI device protocoll, etc. :( An appropriate driver in conjunction with the OS would have to do this. #2 A Q-bus quad width board of unknown manufacture. Two 50-pin headers at handle-edge of board. A marking on the component side says it's a "Q BUS/LEXID INT." with a number 77D609871P1 under it. A number stamped on the backside is "GE77D609871G1" with "SER NO- 44" under it. Those part numbers look like old GE part numbers. Did General Electric make any equipment for the DEC world? #3 This is what I feel is an Archive tape controller. It has "ARCHIVE CORP. Copyright 1983" silk screened onto the component side. No other numbers on the silk screen, dang it. It is 5.5" x 7.75" with a 50-pin edge connector (marked "J1") on one 5.5" end and a 50-pin header (marked "J3") at the other end. "J2" is a 4-pin recepticle which is the same as the power connector on a 5.25" floppy or hard drive and is on the edge connector-end of the board. The EPROM label has 80182-010 on it. Has an 8031 microcontroller chip, an 8155 and an Archive LCC ASIC plus a bunch of TTL and one small CMOS RAM chip (Mitsubishi M5M2167P-70). Other numbers found on the board seem to be component part numbers however there is a hand-written number on the solder side which is 80158-013/A. Could this be an important identifying number? I want to try to identify these boards to see if theyt are useable in the systems I'm keeping, especially item #1. Thanks for the help. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 15:14:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <199807152014.AA27002@world.std.com> < A more "classic"-related question related to some faded brain < cell connections in my head: Wasn't there once a CP/M version of < the Norton utilities, long before the IBM PC was even a glimmer < in its parent's eyes? There were several for CP/M, apple][ and trs80. Most were bad sector scanners and disk editors. Very useful though as TRS80 and most cp/m crates with external drive would write garbage to any externally powered disks if the system was powered off with media in the drive. Alison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 15:15:26 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715201528.18592.qmail@hotmail.com> Hey! A great way to bring this thread back on topic! How do those electronic switches work, and what is the approximate network topology of the system? Is there a reference guide to it somewhere? I'd love to take a look. >>From about the 1970s and on (somewhere around there...about the time the >first electronic switching systems start appearing) ***snip*** As far as I know, a telephone rings because when it's on hook, any current on the phone line is connected to the ringer. When someone is trying to connect, the company sends a periodic AC signal to the phone. If the caller ID data signal was sent first, it would cause jittering in mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my theory. >I don't know the specific reasons that are behind sending the data burst >after the first ring. It may have a lot to do with the caller ID boxes >needing some sort of indicator to let them know a call was coming and they >should start monitoring for the carrier. I think the caller ID boxes >could have easily been designed to continually monitor the line for a >carrier and then capture the data that came before the first ring. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 16:16:16 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <199807151903.TAA28050@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 15, 98 03:01:09 pm Message-ID: <9807152016.AA20939@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/09ca067d/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 15:19:47 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <199807151337.JAA08933@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: **** snip **** > I may be able to help... I worked for a company in the early '80's, Bruce > and James. They wrote a program for the PC called WordVision, intended > to be the first of what we now call an office suite. It required 96K > of RAM, a floppy disk and DOS 1.0 or higher. The install disk was, IIRC, > DOS 1.0. The only hitch is that it's copy protected. You had to boot the > original floppy and run an installation program to make slave disks. You > could then copy the application from the slave disks to other diskettes > or a hard drive. If only the program didn't use a cycle-counting key repeat > loop, it'd still work on newer hardware. > > If teledisk or some such can package up the disk image, I can see about > making it available for such a worthy project. I wanted to dig through the > disk anyway, to look for the oft-discussed Digital Research strings. TeleDisk should be able to handle it without problem. > It's not a full DOS 1.0 kit, but it is the bootsector, IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS. > Let me know if you are interested. If you do make up a disk image, I would appreciate having access to a copy of it. Thanks! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 15:27:59 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <9807151814.AA16463@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > A more "classic"-related question related to some faded brain > cell connections in my head: Wasn't there once a CP/M version of > the Norton utilities, long before the IBM PC was even a glimmer > in its parent's eyes? I cannot recall a suite of tools like Norton, Tim. But there were assuredly individual tools like FINDBAD to scan drives for bad blocks, EDFILE the binary file editor, and DU (Disk Utility) which could examine and change any byte on a disk - boot sector included. - don From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 16:56:30 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 15, 98 01:27:59 pm Message-ID: <9807152056.AA14256@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/8271eba6/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 15 16:01:31 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard References: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35AD18AA.1D4F52C4@bbtel.com> Norton Utilities, since way back in version 2 or 3 has been a lifesaver for me, every version. I religiously purchase it and upgrades, but I usually hanf back and see if any problems arise from initial use - none so far and that's impressive. Allison J Parent wrote: > < OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk > < is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone > > First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools > should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. > > I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies > I've had for over 8years. > > Allison -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 15 16:06:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: C64 parts References: <199807151813.OAA12343@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35AD19D8.56DFC184@bbtel.com> Nope, not reasonabloe ones anyway. I have a C64C and a C128 that I need to get out of stoage and see what condition they might be in. If you might be interested in a working or non-working one then contact me direct email later and by Friday night I should be able to give you the skinny on their condition. If they're good working units you can hang onto the one you have now for parts and run the one from me as a good unit. If my units check bad, you can do the opposite. Need any 1541 drives? I know I have good ones, not sure if I have any bad ones. I'm only going to keep my C128D and the rest I'm slowly purging through selling, trading and with some items - giving. Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Okay, I'm gonna come right out and ask it... > > Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips > mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require > replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. > > Thanks > Tony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 15 16:07:50 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: Message-ID: <35AD1A26.ECC23A7B@bbtel.com> Right, unless it's federal I think Nevada is just choking their chickens Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > > Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. > > Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is > > now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will > > keep those spammers out of my mailbox. > > Jack Peacock > > Well, it * might * discourage those who reside in Nevada, but it is not > likely to even furrow the brow of those elsewhere! > > - don -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 15 16:12:04 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <004301bdaffb$9b29c560$a8f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: <35AD1B24.C575CC88@bbtel.com> Nope, the *67 command is free since it gives you the privacy that was there (supposedly) before caller id. Bad thing ius that even though you keep it from being seen on the reciever's caller id, in some systems they can call you back blindly by using *69.... Poesie wrote: > Speaking of, does *67 cost? I've been up to the same pranks as Sam, w/ a > local "mass marketer." I vaguely recalled it being a feature that cost > nothing, but I never was sure. Sorry to keep this thread going, as humourous > as it is :) > > -Eric > > >Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to > >disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, > >they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such > >slime would resort to it...) > > > > Megan Gentry -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 15 17:37:38 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >This is totally off-topic but this is the kind of thing you all can >appreciate, and it may even help some of you. Absolutely beautiful! R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 16:27:27 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <9807152016.AA20939@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807151903.TAA28050@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807152129.VAA03180@cyber2.servtech.com> At 13:16 15-07-98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> >>Two 50-pin-headers strongly points towards this board being a >> >Pertec-formatted >> >>tape interface. (like the TC02/TC03). It could also be a communications >> >>multiplexer, like something from the CS series. >> >> "TOP ASSY TC0210201-FSH" >> >> Hmmm, that Top Assy number has TC02 in it Tim. > >Told ya' so :-). > >> With that TC02 in the Top Assy number would that mean this is indeed a TC02 >> tape I/F as you figured? >> >> If so what tape drive model(s) should I be looking for? > >Just about any Pertec-formatted tape drive will work (even the oddball >Kennedy formatters which use funny strobes.) Configuration information >is available from > >http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ Found it. Thanks! > >> Okay, anybody have any data on this Andromeda UDC11 module? > >Andromeda certainly does :-). http://www.andromedasystems.com/. Yeow! I thought Andromeda was a defunct company! Years ago I had heard of them, seen advertising and magazine articles, etc. But they're still going! They have several Q-bus items and card cages. And they *still* have the (U)DC11 in their catalog! That's my type of company. Like me, they are still working at the Trailing Edge of Technology. :-) Cool! Thanks for the wake up, Tim. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 13:51:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) In-Reply-To: <54ab9120.35ac8ee9@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jul 15, 98 07:13:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1735 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/9c050e3e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 13:26:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: I'm back! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 14, 98 07:16:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/58df8d68/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 13:43:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Jul 15, 98 10:10:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/b2b1d7aa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 14:54:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807151228.IAA03007@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Jul 15, 98 08:28:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/cc4d65ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 15:05:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980715161909.20889.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 15, 98 09:19:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/120f09ae/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 15:26:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980715162330.18644.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 15, 98 09:23:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1950 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/67a7ed74/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 15:28:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <13371884743.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jul 15, 98 09:36:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 377 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/34cb8a4d/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 16:34:01 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <9807152056.AA14256@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Several years ago, when I was living on Marion Ave in Pasadena CA, > I was quite surprised that a more solidly remembered maker of CP/M > tools, Workman and Associates, was my next door neighbor :-). You do get around, don't you Tim? Yes, they were a a familiar name. And I think may be still around - though I doubt much involved with CP/M these days. - don From red at bears.org Wed Jul 15 16:38:21 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I was a student at the time, and wanted a way for people to leave me > messages. Alas the traditional pencil and paper had problems due to > illegible messages, no time/date stamp, etc. > > So I hacked. Woah! You rock. (: That is too cool. ok r. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 15 16:48:08 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "Re: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...)" (Jul 15, 15:01) References: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <9807152248.ZM9825@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 15, 15:01, Christian Fandt wrote: > This is "tomorrow". More details from that silvery sticker: > > "TOP ASSY TC0210201-FSH" > "S/N 93395" > "Sub ASSY C3987 C" > > Hmmm, that Top Assy number has TC02 in it Tim. Also, when looking at the > board from the component side up, edge fingers downward, there is a male > 26-pin header at top left and a male 20-pin header at top right. In top > center is a 4-position DIP switch (SW1) and a single LED (CR1). Just to > left of center and downward there are SW2 and SW3 which are both > 10-position DIP switches. "C3987" is on a small bar coded sticker under the > left-hand 50-pin header. > > With that TC02 in the Top Assy number would that mean this is indeed a TC02 > tape I/F as you figured? It's exactly the TC02 that I have (and have the manual for). The two male headers you mentioned are for diagnostics connections the factory used. It can handle up to 4 tape drives (that's what 4 of 10-way DIP switch are for). I can dig out the manual for you next week -- sorry, this week is too hectic to do it right now. You might want to send me some private email to remind me, of course :-) > If so what tape drive model(s) should I be looking for? Any Pertec-interface drive. Kennedy drives were popular. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 15 16:25:39 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: cdenham@tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 15, 0:47) References: <35acfb23.15289855@mail.tgis.co.uk> Message-ID: <9807152225.ZM9811@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 15, 0:47, Christopher Denham wrote: > I have a Torch its a big box 2 5 1/4 drives plugs into the Tube of > the BBC and runs msdos about half the speed of a XT ......... That sounds like a Graduate. There were several Torch units; the original was a Eurocard-sized Z80 processor that fitted inside the BBC and came with dual double-sided 80-track drives in a case styled to fit under the Beeb. Notorious for noisy head solenoids and a rather iffy SMPSU. Then came the Graduate, based on an 8086 (?), followed by the Unicorn, which was a repackaged Beeb with a Z000 (? or 68000?) running a Xenix derivative. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Jul 15 19:00:26 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <6570@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807152204.RAA01488@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 10:01 AM 7/15/98 -0500, you wrote: I'll bet I know-- My MAD-1 (nee TELEX 1186) had a card with such a BNC connector. It was used for connectivity with IBM mainframes (3720 Emulation?), and pretty much useless for anything else. Jeff >Speaking of TELEX, they once had the tan-colored 286 boxes, pretty >small, with only a 3.5" fdd and a hardcard. They had a BNC connector >emanating from the motherboard. Does anyone know what that was for? If >it's a network card, does anyone know about drivers? > >>I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was >>a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an >>80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although >>I don't recall the clock speed). > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Jul 15 19:10:19 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <6565@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807152214.RAA01504@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 09:37 AM 7/15/98 -0500, you wrote: E-Mail Me privately, at: jeff.pat@mindspring.com Jeff >OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk >is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone >have an old copy of Spinrite or know of a place where I could get it? >How much does the latest one go for? > >>I truely hate the brain-damaged program >>ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have >>known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a >>problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few >hundred >>drives I have worked on. >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Wed Jul 15 18:06:17 1998 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35ad345f.7088134@mail.tgis.co.uk> On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 02:37:05 +0100 (BST), you wrote: >> I have a Torch its a big box 2 5 1/4 drives plugs into the Tube of >> the BBC and runs msdos about half the speed of a XT ......... >> > >That sounds like a Torch Graduate machine. An MS-DOS copro for the BBC >micro. I have one, but alas I'm missing the host ROM and systems disk for >it :-(. I dont thing it needs a rom in the BBC , I have the system disks If you would like a copy email me with your address and i will send you a copy ( That is if i can find a 5 1/4 disk drive ) > >Torch also made (An incomplete list) : > >The Unicorn (68000 copro for the BBC, ran Uniplus+, I think) > >A strange machine with drives, CPU and monitor in the same box, and a >separate keyboard. AFAIK this was a BBC micro + the Z80 card > >The XXX workstation. A 68010 machine running Uniplus+ with a GUI >frontend. A very odd machine internally (the bootstrap involves the I/O >processor - a 6303 - copying some code from an EPROM into the video >memory, and then letting the 68010 run). > >The XXXX workstation. 68030 based?? I've never seen one. > >Assorted BBC peripherals. I have a Torch lightpen, for example. > >-tony From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Jul 15 18:05:19 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: C64 parts Message-ID: <01bdb045$09f49da0$0100007f@localhost> I've several junk C64's I have been saving, if you want parts from them. manney@lrbcg.com "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides >Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips >mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require >replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. > >Thanks >Tony > > > From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 18:10:18 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807152310.AA06412@world.std.com> >Confirm yes or no for me that an RX33 is a 3.5" floppy? No. The RX33 is a 5.25" high-density diskette... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 20:00:20 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807152310.AA06412@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 15, 98 07:10:18 pm Message-ID: <9807160000.AA04497@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/f16b7338/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 20:03:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 15, 98 02:34:01 pm Message-ID: <9807160003.AA11789@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 732 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/981728b8/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 20:05:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <199807152129.VAA03180@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 15, 98 05:27:27 pm Message-ID: <9807160005.AA20313@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/974cc197/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Jul 15 19:24:28 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Message-ID: I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips on where to look for interesting old computer gear. This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't tell anyone your secrets, I swear! thanks, Kai From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 18:05:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Q-bus boards I need ID of... In-Reply-To: <199807152003.UAA00219@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 15, 98 04:01:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2170 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/0816386f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 18:07:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 15, 98 05:38:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/0729d974/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 17:55:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980715131926.30777f74@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 15, 98 01:19:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/7acb52ec/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 19:45:44 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips > on where to look for interesting old computer gear. How about Sam's VCF in September? :-) > This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on > your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't > tell anyone your secrets, I swear! Well, computer collecting in SV is sort of like Beanie Baby collecting elsewhere. There are no secret spots, just scratching and clawing competition for the good stuff when it shows up at the well-known spots. OK, here it comes... Silicon Valley secret spots: http://www.kce.com/junk.htm -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 19:47:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807152225.ZM9811@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 15, 98 09:25:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/da152431/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 19:50:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35ad345f.7088134@mail.tgis.co.uk> from "Christopher Denham" at Jul 15, 98 11:06:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 533 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/5565a226/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 20:52:29 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: <199807160152.AA15997@world.std.com> >Do there exist DEC drives A and B such that A and B have their own >(different) 'native' packs, and packs from A can also be read (at least) >in B, but not vice versa I don't know of any such disk packs (in fact, there is one combination, I forget which, which will result in a volume spindle swedged into the drive spindle -- making the drive so much worthless hardware) However, TK50 and TK70 fit the bill... you can read TK50s on a TK70, but not write them. Tapes written on a TK70 cannot be read on a TK50. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 15 20:54:48 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 15, 98 08:54:05 pm Message-ID: <199807160154.VAA08775@shell.monmouth.com> > Incidentally, an RK11-D will only work with RK05s. An RK11-C will work > with any of them. > I believe the RK11D can be made to work with RK03's. I seem to remember a friend in DEC support running them off an RK11-D. (He also hacked my RKV11 to run 18-bit addressing.) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 20:59:01 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module Message-ID: <199807160159.AA20806@world.std.com> >But Andromeda has long supported 3.5" floppies under MSCP >emulation, both as 1.2 Mbyte >and 1.44 Mbyte devices. It's very possible that the UDC11 has >been configured to report back the drive type as RX33. My Andromeda >SCDC can be configured to work either way. Don't you have a ESDC, >Megan? Ever try a 3.5" floppy on it? Nope, because I don't have the adapter that is required for connecting to such a drive... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 21:01:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807160201.AA22707@world.std.com> At 06:55 PM 7/7/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? >> >> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. There seems to be a guy who posts Amiga/Atari mice for sale pretty regularly on the Antique Computers section of Haggle (or it may be either Workstations or Other Computers); I think they sell for about $15. There's also a woman (Brenda Watson?) who sells Atari mice; I bought one and it seems fine. No connection, yada yada yada. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 15 21:53:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Denver sources? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980715174137.3c87424c@ricochet.net> My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the beginning of August, and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our destination. So, does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? (And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep the gf happy too! 8^) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 15 21:53:32 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980715182000.3c872124@ricochet.net> At 01:10 PM 7/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular Actually, that sounds like a pretty neat idea. I'll have to check it out... >uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a Simple... To differentiate it from the hordes of other technically identical PC's available. If I had to choose between a standard PC-type case and something like that (on a consumer level) I'd definitely go for the oddball. Consider Bang and Olufsen stereos -- same thing. >cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought >you people might be interested. Hmmm... Seems to me that two PC's stacked on top of each other is just about a cube. So, why not a case that has two motherboards, with an integral Monitor/kb/mouse switch... _______________ ||--- || ||--- || ||--- || || [ ] ---|| || [ ] ---|| || [ ] ---|| --------------- ^ ^ ^ | | \ | \ ---- Mobo 2 with Exp Cards \ ---- Drives (Shared Floppy?) ---- Mobo 1, with Exp Cards Okay, so maybe there isn't any point or anything, but I still think it's a cool idea... Hmmm... Mac on one side, PC on the other? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 15 21:53:38 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980715184926.3c871dda@ricochet.net> Okay, for me it's easy: 8^) Not listed is a "101 California" terminal, a Zenith keyboard terminal, Fujitsu Stylistic 500, Everex 386 Laptop, and the 128K mac, Altos 8000, HP 3000, HP 9000/310, and hp9000/345. Hmmm. And the odd 8-bit atari, and the MSX machine, and a few others that don't really fit into my collection. So, it's a little over 100, of which 80+ are portables. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed Jul 15 21:59:12 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: A couple more questions, 8/M's and Es In-Reply-To: <35AD4438.A1B2641C@freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 15, 98 05:07:20 pm Message-ID: <199807160259.TAA25679@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Chuck: > My question is how can I figure out if the 8/M chassis has the > requisite 8v lamp supply so that if I found an 8/e front panel I > could plug it in? Alternatively, if I pulled the 8/e panel I have > off, and plugged it into the other one to see if it would work, > would this damage it? (the FAQ says that you can run the LED > panel on an E but the going the other way is ambiguous.) You can run a LED front panel in an 8/E, Tim Shoppa and I tried this about January. There are two connector lugs on the left hand side of both types of front panels. The 8/e uses both lugs, an 8/f or other LED-style panel only the blue. The blue lead is -15V, the yellow is 8V. The lugs on the front panel are labelled "YELLOW" and "BLUE", just connect the proper wires. Leave the yellow wire unconnected to use the LED front panel in your 8/e. This works, we tried it. To find out if your supply has an 8V output, best dig out the voltmeter and check the leads coming from it! > I need an omnibus extender card, did such a thing > exist? I'm sure that they did, but I've never seen one. I'm currently waiting on connectors so that I can make one. Heck, I could make two if you need one. If anyone wants to make their own, the connectors are hard to find. Here's a suitable part number: Manufacturer: EDAC, they're at 416-754-3322 Part #s: 346-036-540-201 346-036-541-201 346-036-540-202 346-036-541-202 346-036-540-802 346-036-541-802 Any of these connectors will work, they are 0.125" spacing 36 contact edge connectors, 18 per side. You'll need 4 for an omnibus extender. The first two types are best, as they don't have mounting ears. The last 4 parts have mounting ears that can easily be cut or ground off to allow the connectors to be properly spaced. Hope this helps, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From cmcmanis at freegate.com Wed Jul 15 22:34:51 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: A couple more questions, 8/M's and Es References: <199807160259.TAA25679@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <35AD74DB.AE6127B9@freegate.com> Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > You can run a LED front panel in an 8/E, Tim Shoppa and I tried this > about January. There are two connector lugs on the left hand side of both > types of front panels. The 8/e uses both lugs, an 8/f or other LED-style > panel only the blue. The blue lead is -15V, the yellow is 8V. The lugs on > the front panel are labelled "YELLOW" and "BLUE", just connect the proper > wires. Leave the yellow wire unconnected to use the LED front panel in > your 8/e. This works, we tried it. This is very weird because the 8/e LAMP based front panel on one of my machines does _not_ have the yellow connector connected! So its set up just like an 8/M front panel. Very weird. > I'm sure that they did, but I've never seen one. I'm currently waiting on > connectors so that I can make one. Heck, I could make two if you need one. If you can make two that would be superb. Let me know what you need in terms of financial support. The point for the connectors is an excellent find as well! Thanks. ==Chuck From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 22:45:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980715201528.18592.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Hey! A great way to bring this thread back on topic! How do those > electronic switches work, and what is the approximate network topology > of the system? Is there a reference guide to it somewhere? I'd love to > take a look. Well, it wouldn't be on topic. Telephony is a whole 'nother subject. Try calling your local telco and say you're a student interested in learning more about the phone network. If they ask if you're a phone phreak, say you've never even heard of that term. Or, a good book to start on would be _Understanding Telephone Electronics_. Its a Sam's book but you can also find a Radio Shack branded version at Radio Shack (they all carry it AFAIK). I recommend it. Just a quickie, the phone network design has many parallels to the Internet, or a basic datacom network topology. You've got your end offices (sort of like level 3 routers), tandem switches (sort of like level 1 baclkbone routers). Ask me more questions in e-mail. > As far as I know, a telephone rings because when it's on hook, any > current on the phone line is connected to the ringer. When someone is > trying to connect, the company sends a periodic AC signal to the phone. When a phone is on-hook, the ringer circuit is connected in parallel with the line. The tip and ring (telephone-speak for positive wire and negative wire, or commonly color-coded as green and red respectively, except when dealing with a multiple pair cable) each have a capacitor in series with the ringer. Like so: + (tip) - (ring) | | |--||--[BELL]--||--| | | | \ | |______o \o______| Hookswitch The capacitors allow current to flow during the AC ring cycle (about 90 to 120v) which allows the bell to ring. Once the phone goes "off-hook" (someone picks up the hookswitch and closes the loop) the telco senses loop current and ceases the ring current, and puts 12v DC at ~20mA on the line. When the phone is on-hook, there is a 48v potential on the line. > If the caller ID data signal was sent first, it would cause jittering in > mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the Nope, the caller ID data is a 1200bps data burst. Not enough current to activate the ringer. > ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to > check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station > knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my > theory. Bzzt. But thanks for playing :) The caller ID box camps on the line with a high impedance monitor circuit (basically has capacitors in parallel with the line like the ringer circuit, with over-voltage protection to keep the nasty ring cycle away from it. This allows the AC signal to pass but prevents a DC loop which would look like an off-hook to the phone company). If you ever see a telephone technician, ask him to demonstrate his/her lineman set for you. It allows you to camp on a line and listen to the conversation without actually taking the line off-hook. Sorry for the off-topic. Please send all further queries to e-mail. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From Archive at navix.net Thu Jul 16 01:43:15 1998 From: Archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Denver sources? References: <3.0.16.19980715174137.3c87424c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <35ADA102.5238F2B@navix.net> Uncle Roger wrote: > My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the beginning of August, > and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our destination. So, > does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? > (And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep the gf happy > too! 8^) Thanks! Roger: I have some pretty good places for you to try out. Make sure to check out the Mile High Flea Market. It's huge!! There's everything you'd ever want there. As far as classics... mostly just micros, etc., but it's a blast browsing the miles of outdoor flea market. I also stopped in at a couple good thrift stores in the Aurora area. There are several all in the vacinity of Peoria St in South/East Denver. The Veterans, Goodwill, etc., ALL had a ton of old micros, etc. Good luck! CORD > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\| From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 16 00:28:08 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <9807151520.AA25279@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715222808.00e6d660@mail.wa.jps.net> At 08:20 15-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >No need to apologize; the archive is a long-term project (as any >project involving hundreds of megabytes of data and spread over >most of a decade must be), and a delay of a couple weeks in getting something in there >isn't going to kill anybody. Gotcha. Could you E-mail me the list once more, so I can do some careful comparison? What I will do is copy the ones that have a major discrepancy, and the one that's not in there, and get them off to you. >Unfortunately, DECUS has totally abandoned all PDP-11 based contributions >unless by accident they found their way into the VMS SIG tapes. I haven't Arrrghhhhh.... it's kind of ironic too. I've spoken with a senior sales type at Mentec. He tells me that a hobbyist license for things like RT11 and RSTS is not out of the question. It just happens to be low on Mentec's priority list at the moment since they're busy with paying customers and Y2K issues. At least I didn't get an outright 'No!' or 'Bug off!' >Thanks, it's appreciated! (Now if I could only find that skinny blue >book that I've been promising you, Bruce...) Oho, you remembered. ;-) Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 16 00:42:42 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Denver sources? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980715174137.3c87424c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715224242.00e81e20@mail.wa.jps.net> At 21:53 15-07-98 -0500, you wrote: >My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the beginning of August, >and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our destination. So, >does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? I've been there. Look for 'Cascade Surplus Electronics' (I think). Really, though, the best bet is to hit the area and get hold of the local Yellow pages. Look under 'Electronic Equipment and Supplies-Dealers' and 'Computers-Used.' You may also want to look under 'Surplus Merchandise.' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 16 00:49:41 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: FW: Q-bus and other boards available Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715224941.00e22c10@mail.wa.jps.net> Fellow sent me a message to the effect that he's got a stack of various DEC and T1000 boards available. If interested, please contact him directly at: jboldway@cottagesoft.com List follows. -=-=- -=-=- Here's a list of boards: 2 X G114 2 X G235 1 X H207 2 X H217 1 X M225 1 X M3104 4 X M7168 2 X M7169 1 X M7231 1 X M7233 1 X M7234 1 X M7235 1 X M7236 1 X M7238 2 X M7555 2 X M7606 2 X M7607 2 X M7608 1 X M8012 1 X M8027 1 X M8186 2 X M8637 1 X M8639 4 X M9047 2 X clearpoint Q-RAM 11B with 76 256K chips per board packed in as tight as you could put them. Bet these burned out from heat problems really fast! "Codar Technology" model 120 calender clock. A battery backup, I presume - 2 x 3V duracell batteries on this board. The other T1000 boards: 3 X T1019 1 X T1003 1 X T1002 1 X T1012 1 X T1014 2 X T1001 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 16 00:51:14 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980715222808.00e6d660@mail.wa.jps.net> References: <9807151520.AA25279@alph02.triumf.ca> <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: > Arrrghhhhh.... it's kind of ironic too. I've spoken with a senior sales >type at Mentec. He tells me that a hobbyist license for things like RT11 >and RSTS is not out of the question. It just happens to be low on Mentec's >priority list at the moment since they're busy with paying customers and >Y2K issues. > > At least I didn't get an outright 'No!' or 'Bug off!' Without a doubt that is the best news I've heard all day, now if it could just come to pass! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 16 01:06:06 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: FW: FREE DECWriter (LA120) up for grabs, Bay Area In-Reply-To: <35AD3CA4.AFB9FECD@aimnet.com> References: <35AD3CA4.AFB9FECD@aimnet.com> Message-ID: <35ad9814.273561560@smtp.wa.jps.net> Found on Usenet. If you're interested, get hold of the fellow directly. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:35:25 -0700, in comp.os.vms you wrote: >>From: Mike Graff >>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >>Subject: LA120 available - interested? >>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:35:25 -0700 >>Organization: Wombat Internet Guild >>Lines: 12 >>Message-ID: <35AD3CA4.AFB9FECD@aimnet.com> >>Reply-To: mgraff@aimnet.com >>NNTP-Posting-Host: host52.macsource.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news1.best.com!204.188.144.17.MISMATCH!batnet!not-for-mail >> >>Hi all, >> >>I've got an old LA120 hardcopy terminal (aka DECWRITER III) to give away. >> >>The unit is fully functional (as far as I can tell). I've got some spare >>ribbons for it too. >> >>You come haul it away, it's yours. I am located in the San Francisco Bay >>Area. First come first served. Email me at mgraff@computerware.com. >> >>Thanks, >>Mike -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 16 01:16:35 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 16, 1:50) References: Message-ID: <9807160716.ZM10666@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 16, 1:50, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > >That sounds like a Torch Graduate machine. An MS-DOS copro for the BBC=20 > > >micro. I have one, but alas I'm missing the host ROM and systems disk = > > for=20 > > >it :-(. > > I dont thing it needs a rom in the BBC , I have the system disks If > > I am suprised. I guess it works with the standard Tube host routines. > Odd, as it doesn't (IIRC) contain a Tube ULA. Or does it use the same > host ROM as the Z80 copro (those I have). > > Does anyone know for certain? I'd not want to waste your time if there > are other bits I need. I'm sure it doesn't use the standard Tube routines; in face most Torch devices play merry hell with Acorn's Tube code, which tends to see that something is there but can't deal with it. I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a Graduate, so I'll ask him today. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Thu Jul 16 11:20:47 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Jul 15, 98 10:10:10 am Message-ID: <9E31DF46CA@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> Tony, > Nice!. I've got n Microway Monoputer, Inmos B008 (with a load of TRAMs) > and a B020 graphics card here. For the record, I've: 3 Gemini GM8101 T800D/20 1 Gemini GM8104 T800D/20 (graphics) 1 Gemini GM8401 (link adapter) 1 Transtech TMB04 T800D/20 + 2 size one T800D/20 TRAMs 2 Sundance ST101 T800D/20 and T805D/30 1 Microway Monoputer2 T800D/20 A GM8101 has 5 sets of jumpers (1 to 3 jumpers per set) and a DIN41612 edge connector (64pins in 96 shell). I've got the edge connector sussed but not the jumpers, except for the three labelled LNK2 which set the clock rate of the T800. The TMB04 has 10 (3pin) jumpers and 20 dip switches (in blocks of 8,4,8). The edge connected is a D37 but I've a hedgehog for it. So again, I understand the connector. The Monoputer2 has a 20way(?) berg into which is plugged a tiny hedgehog. Again its the jumpers I'm lost on. This appears to be different to your Monoputer C. A ST101 has a number of dip switches and a few jumpers (may be wrong here) and a D25 connector. I've not got the pinout for the connector. The GM8104 has no connector so I would assume that its meant to be used with the GM8401 link adapter, which is a 25way D. > BTW, here's what the pins are for, in general. I'll assume you have an > INMOS link pinout. pin 1 is at the top of the board, row a is nearest the > PCB. > > B1-B5 PC link > B6 NotLink (PC interface enable) > A1-A6 Not used > > B7-B11 Link 0 > A7-A11 Link 1 > B13-B17 Link 2 > A13-A17 Link 3 > > B22-B26 PC 'system' link (Reset, Analyse, Error) > A22-A26 Subsystem 'system' link > B27 NotSystem (PC system link enable) > A27 Not used > B28-B32 Up 'system' link > A28-A32 Down 'system' link This is what I've 'discovered' for the GM8101 connector. > What Transputer books do you have? Don't have them with me at the moment, so a list to follow, maybe 10 or so. > -tony Doug. From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 16 07:06:06 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free Telatype brand telatypes Message-ID: <199807161208.MAA21258@cyber2.servtech.com> Folks, here's something I found on the Boatanchors Swap List. Wonder if they're ASR-33's? If so, they are of interest to us that collect early DEC and Data General, etc. computers. Of course, contact WA6GYD directly to rescue these -I'm just passing this lead on.... >X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.foothill.net: majordom set sender to owner-baswaplist@foothill.net using -f >From: WA6GYD@aol.com >Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:02:04 EDT >To: baswaplist@foothill.net >Subject: Free Telatype brand telatypes >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 >Sender: owner-baswaplist@foothill.net > >2 late model machines with re-perfs on floor stands with power supplys. >These need to be picked up this week 16th or 17th July or they will be thrown >in dump. > >they are located in So San Francisco. need reply of interest tonite or >tommorow. > >Don > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 16 07:30:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <199807160201.AA22707@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35ADF258.9B2B4D5D@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > < mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the > < ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to > < check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station > < knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my > > Wrong. > > Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would disturb > the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller ID > that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a non-DC > (capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows > it to hear the ring and the data. The caller id info rides as a carrier on the line too at a different frequency than the voice signal so that only the id box (and similar instruments) can read it. If I'm not mistaken it's sent as a 300 baud carrier. The way it senses the ring is the increase in DC line voltage from an average 35vdc to around 80vdc, telling itself to look for and recieve a data string which includes time and date. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 16 07:35:31 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Denver sources? References: <3.0.3.32.19980715224242.00e81e20@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <35ADF393.B2ECDDEE@bbtel.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > At 21:53 15-07-98 -0500, you wrote: > > >My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the beginning of August, > >and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our destination. So, > >does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? > > I've been there. Look for 'Cascade Surplus Electronics' (I think). Really, > though, the best bet is to hit the area and get hold of the local Yellow > pages. Look under 'Electronic Equipment and Supplies-Dealers' and > 'Computers-Used.' You may also want to look under 'Surplus Merchandise.' Just be careful on Colfax Ave from about Quebec Street to downtown, was a rough area when I was there in 76 and 82, and is said to be even worse. It's a main drag so keep one eye open to deals and the other to problems. Since the AF base closed down a lot of surplus is gone but there is enough corporate business out there dumping machines to find plenty. If I'm not mistaken the AF (or DOD) accounting and pay center is still there ans regularly cycles out mainframes, minis and servers at auction, so there should be a good source. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 16 07:39:04 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? References: Message-ID: <35ADF468.F77E44A0@bbtel.com> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips > on where to look for interesting old computer gear. > > This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on > your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't > tell anyone your secrets, I swear! Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 16 07:41:44 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35ADF507.6847A34A@bbtel.com> Marty wrote: > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > 1. Access www.dell.com Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix a lot of things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works nearly invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Jul 16 07:52:58 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:19 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul16.085228.1767.119269@smtp.itgonline.com> Not that I'm aware of. We are supporting a couple hundred Dell 4066/XE Interactive Unix servers which are at the end of their life cycle and being replaced by Compaq Proliant 2500 and 5000 servers. We have one in-house 4066/XE for building root drives for field servers. All other times the 4066/XE sleeps. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/16/98 8:44 AM Marty wrote: > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > 1. Access www.dell.com Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix a lot of things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works nearly invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul16.084405.1767.51627; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:44:05 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id FAA22644; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:55 -0700 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id FAA63566 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:52 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.scrtc.blue.net [206.65.217.168]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id FAA31415 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:50 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand102.blue.net [206.65.221.102]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13618 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:42:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35ADF507.6847A34A@bbtel.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ Blakeman To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From guerney at uq.net.au Thu Jul 16 08:09:21 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <02a901bdb0bc$2c543be0$32f665cb@default> -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >Speaking of books, >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. Yes, I've got it here (bought as part of a $3 per bag haul from a charity book sale a month ago). You are right about year and publisher, but the "author" was Bolt, not Holt - it is part of a series called School Mathematics Project Handbooks and A.B Bolt actually lists himself as "supervisor" of 6 Exeter School 6th form boys who actually wrote the book. It describes a binary adder, a NIM machine, a noughts and crosses machine .... I see a few other replies, so that it is not all that rare :( - but what exactly did you want to know for? Phil Guerney Brisbane, Australia From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 16 08:16:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul16.085228.1767.119269@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35ADFD49.673151C4@bbtel.com> Marty wrote: > Not that I'm aware of. We are supporting a couple hundred Dell 4066/XE > Interactive Unix servers which are at the end of their life cycle and > being replaced by Compaq Proliant 2500 and 5000 servers. We have one > in-house 4066/XE for building root drives for field servers. All other > times the 4066/XE sleeps. What (tell me please) are you/they doing with the XE's as they are replaced? I would love to get sme parts such as a Pentium upgrade board to make it a 45xx/XE as well as drive rails, hard drives, hard drive mounts, etc and I wouldn't even mind considering some for purchase if reasonable enough. Sure they are heavy but in the process of messing with this one I thought what agreat machine for a local church group that runs 15-20 machines and has limited funds, to be able to run their homeschool machines with the same software available. I guess I ought to take this to private email as well.... > Marty > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/16/98 8:44 AM > > Marty wrote: > > > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > > > 1. Access www.dell.com > > Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix a > lot of > things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works nearly > invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul16.084405.1767.51627; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:44:05 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id FAA22644; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:55 -0700 > Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id FAA63566 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 > 05:41:52 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.scrtc.blue.net [206.65.217.168]) > by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id FAA31415 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:50 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand102.blue.net [206.65.221.102]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13618 > for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:42:43 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35ADF507.6847A34A@bbtel.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:41:44 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Jul 16 08:38:45 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul16.093613.1767.119282@smtp.itgonline.com> The 4066/XE's belong to the US Government. From what I understand, when an agency excesses a machine it is up for grabs by any other federal agency, then state agency, local government, schools etc. until it is sold at GSA auction which is where you should look. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: Russ Blakeman at internet Date: 7/16/98 9:19 AM Marty wrote: > Not that I'm aware of. We are supporting a couple hundred Dell 4066/XE > Interactive Unix servers which are at the end of their life cycle and > being replaced by Compaq Proliant 2500 and 5000 servers. We have one > in-house 4066/XE for building root drives for field servers. All other > times the 4066/XE sleeps. What (tell me please) are you/they doing with the XE's as they are replaced? I would love to get sme parts such as a Pentium upgrade board to make it a 45xx/XE as well as drive rails, hard drives, hard drive mounts, etc and I wouldn't even mind considering some for purchase if reasonable enough. Sure they are heavy but in the process of messing with this one I thought what agreat machine for a local church group that runs 15-20 machines and has limited funds, to be able to run their homeschool machines with the same software available. I guess I ought to take this to private email as well.... > Marty > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/16/98 8:44 AM > > Marty wrote: > > > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > > > 1. Access www.dell.com > > Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix a > lot of > things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works nearly > invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul16.084405.1767.51627; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:44:05 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id FAA22644; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:55 -0700 > Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id FAA63566 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 > 05:41:52 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.scrtc.blue.net [206.65.217.168]) > by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id FAA31415 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:41:50 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand102.blue.net [206.65.221.102]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13618 > for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:42:43 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35ADF507.6847A34A@bbtel.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:41:44 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from bnllc2.blue.net by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul16.091914.1767.51631; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:19:15 -0400 Received: from bbtel.com (brand102.blue.net [206.65.221.102]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17588; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:17:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ADFD49.673151C4@bbtel.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:16:58 -0500 From: Russ Blakeman Organization: RB Custom Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu, marty@itgonline.com Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul16.085228.1767.119269@smtp.itgonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Jul 16 08:25:26 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Message-ID: <199807161339.JAA28364@charity.harvard.net> Weird Stuff Warehouse! The ultimate store for computer junk! http://www.weirdstuff.com/ Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 8:24 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? > > > I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd > appreciate any tips > on where to look for interesting old computer gear. > > This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the > word around on > your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the > list, I won't > tell anyone your secrets, I swear! > > thanks, > > Kai > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Jul 16 08:27:52 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Amiga Mice (and Atari) Message-ID: <199807161339.JAA28378@charity.harvard.net> Oh man! Talk about a day late... I "donated" a whole ton of Amiga mice/keyboards to a friend when I moved from Chicago to Boston. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Uncle Roger [mailto:sinasohn@ricochet.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 10:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Amiga Mice (and Atari) > > > At 06:55 PM 7/7/98 +0100, you wrote: > >> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? > >> > >> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the > mouse about $15. > > There seems to be a guy who posts Amiga/Atari mice for sale pretty > regularly on the Antique Computers section of Haggle (or it > may be either > Workstations or Other Computers); I think they sell for about > $15. There's > also a woman (Brenda Watson?) who sells Atari mice; I bought > one and it > seems fine. No connection, yada yada yada. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but > madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 08:58:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980716135840.1160.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the ringers? >Wrong. > >Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would disturb >the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller ID >that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a non-DC >(capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows >it to hear the ring and the data. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 09:03:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <19980716140320.6072.qmail@hotmail.com> THe site is www.pandaproject.com. The reason why your suggestion won't work is that the drives are right in one of the corners. >Hmmm... Seems to me that two PC's stacked on top of each other is just >about a cube. So, why not a case that has two motherboards, with an >integral Monitor/kb/mouse switch... > > > _______________ > ||--- || > ||--- || > ||--- || > || [ ] ---|| > || [ ] ---|| > || [ ] ---|| > --------------- > ^ ^ ^ > | | \ > | \ ---- Mobo 2 with Exp Cards > \ ---- Drives (Shared Floppy?) > ---- Mobo 1, with Exp Cards > > >Okay, so maybe there isn't any point or anything, but I still think it's a >cool idea... Hmmm... Mac on one side, PC on the other? > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 16 12:06:46 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Message-ID: <199807161452.QAA25746@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >>[...] > Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't > seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be > on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) I think you are talking about Kai Krause - he is already living somehere in California :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From red at bears.org Thu Jul 16 10:40:53 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? In-Reply-To: <35ADF468.F77E44A0@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't That'd be Kai Krause. I think Mr Krause is on topic but I can't recall what he was working on in 1988. > seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may > just be on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) Drug flashback, definitely. (: ok r. From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Thu Jul 16 11:21:02 1998 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Mac 512 video mods Message-ID: Yesterday I acquired two boxes, each about the size of a UK telephone directory, that were described as "AppleTalk to serial convertors". Opening them up reveals a Mac 512 motherboard, a nice Farnell psu, and a homebrew card in place of Apple's analog board. There are a couple of other mods such as the programmer and reset switches mounted on the front panel, small speaker mounted inside the case, no internal floppy, keyboard extender. The Mac board in box #1 appears to be completely standard. The homebrew board contains 2 * SN74LS221N and 1 * 74LS256N with a lead joining it to a composite connector. Does anybody have any idea what the video output might be for? I understand that there were a number of homebrew video mods of this type published in Mac magazines in the mid 80's. The Mac board in box #2 appears to be slightly non standard. At the location F3 the original SN74F253N has been piggy backed with a 7F153PC (I think). There are also a few connections to the chip at location F2 and to a factory solder pad on the motherboard. The homebrew board looks similar to that in box #1 but is better made and clearly hand labelled "composite video". Which size floppy drive should these boards support? The ROM HI is Apple # 342-022 and ROM LO is # 342-0221. Any thoughts, Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Thu Jul 16 11:23:54 1998 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: dave dameron > >Speaking of books, > >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, > >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. If anybody in the UK is interested in getting this book, I saw a copy of this recently (two or three pounds) and I'm happy to go back for it. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 11:30:14 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807161630.JAA11612@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Tony and all, At 09:28 PM 7/15/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> [We built out own...] >> >> Oooh! Scan! Scan! > >Well, it's all relay logic, and switches, but it's still fun. > >May I also recomend 'Practical Robot Circuits' from the Philips Technical >Library series. It describes a robot dog built from DF92 etc valves, and >includes schematics. The radio control book in the same series is >interesting as well. > This must be 30 or so years old. Can one still get these from Philips? I didn't find anything on Philip's site. Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers. -Dave From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 16 12:06:36 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Q-bus boards I need ID of... In-Reply-To: References: <199807152003.UAA00219@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> At 00:05 16-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> >> There are actually three boards I need to ID, the third is possibly a tape >> controller. Here's the rundown: >> >> #1 A Q-bus dual width board made by DTC. Has a 50-pin header next to a >> single ejector handle. All TTL chips, no LSI or CMOS devices. Two 8-section >> DIP switches on board. Only markings are a FAB, ASSY, REV and S/N numbers. >> The ASSY number is 007-00002. >> >> Could this be a Q-bus SCSI board (I hope, I hope, I hope)? But there's no > >I believe it's more likely to be SASI, alas. Now, some SCSI devices >(particularly older ones) will work on a SASI host adapter, so there's >some hope. > >The problem is drivers. It's a pretty dumb card - TTL state machines for >the various SASI handshakes. It's certainly not MSCP. But if you feel >like tracing out the schematic and figuring out what addresses do what, >then you probably could write a driver for it. I just might need to trace out the schema. As I've mentioned once before, and just like you Tony, I have many years of experience in reverse-engineering circuits, especially vacuum tube equipment, so it's no big deal sometimes. > >> #3 This is what I feel is an Archive tape controller. It has "ARCHIVE >> CORP. Copyright 1983" silk screened onto the component side. No other >> numbers on the silk screen, dang it. It is 5.5" x 7.75" with a 50-pin edge >> connector (marked "J1") on one 5.5" end and a 50-pin header (marked "J3") >> at the other end. "J2" is a 4-pin recepticle which is the same as the power >> connector on a 5.25" floppy or hard drive and is on the edge connector-end >> of the board. The EPROM label has 80182-010 on it. Has an 8031 >> microcontroller chip, an 8155 and an Archive LCC ASIC plus a bunch of TTL >> and one small CMOS RAM chip (Mitsubishi M5M2167P-70). Other numbers found >> on the board seem to be component part numbers however there is a >> hand-written number on the solder side which is 80158-013/A. Could this be >> an important identifying number? > > >My first guess would be an interface between 2 of the following : >SCSI/SASI, QIC02, QIC36. Probably QIC02 -> QIC36, as I _know_ archive >made those (I have the first version - piles of TTL, etc - here). I would >guess J1 is the host connector, J2 is a power connector, wired >conventionally (well, very early Archive drives expected +24V, not +12V) >and J3 is the drive connector. > >What pins are used on the 2 50 pin connectors? The J1 edge connector is the typical gold-plated fingers and seem to be on 0.125" centers while the J3 header is the typical ribbon cable connector with two parallel rows of 25 0.025" gold pins on 0.1" centers. My guess also was that J1 is host, J3 is the drive connector. Could you give an example where we may have seen a QIC36 or QIC02 tape? It doesn't ring a bell here. > >-tony > Thanks again, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 16 12:07:30 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Found something: Re: Q-bus boards I need ID of... In-Reply-To: <199807152003.UAA00219@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807161710.RAA00897@cyber2.servtech.com> At 16:01 15-07-98 -0400, Chris Fandt wrote yesterday: >There are actually three boards I need to ID, the third is possibly a tape >controller. Here's the rundown: > >#1 A Q-bus dual width board made by DTC. Has a 50-pin header next to a >single ejector handle. All TTL chips, no LSI or CMOS devices. Two 8-section >DIP switches on board. Only markings are a FAB, ASSY, REV and S/N numbers. >The ASSY number is 007-00002. > >Could this be a Q-bus SCSI board (I hope, I hope, I hope)? But there's no >CPU or ASIC, etc. onboard to handle DMA, SCSI device protocoll, etc. :( An >appropriate driver in conjunction with the OS would have to do this. Two things I discovered that *may* help ID the DTC board: 1. An 8" floppy disk amongst about 120-130 of them found in the great haul which has a hand-written label: "RT-11 DTC-11-1 To IOMEGA ALPHA 10.5 SCSI" 2. Based on findings in #1 and after seeing a post answering Megan's query as to places to check out in Silicon Valley, I looking at the URL for the suggested Wierdstuff and found a listing for of all things, an IOMEGA ALPHA 10H. (see: http://www.weirdstuff.com/html/drives.htm if you want to see what older and/or "classic" drives they've got) So, could this then be for sure a model DTC-11-1 SCSI (or even SASI) module? (DTC has nothing on their website for Q-bus-anything.) I'll call the contact person re this IOMEGA drive and see how much Wierdstuff wants for it. There are about 15-20 10MB IOMEGA disks that I got in the heap. > >#2 A Q-bus quad width board of unknown manufacture. Two 50-pin headers at >handle-edge of board. A marking on the component side says it's a "Q >BUS/LEXID INT." with a number 77D609871P1 under it. A number stamped on the >backside is "GE77D609871G1" with "SER NO- 44" under it. Those part numbers >look like old GE part numbers. Did General Electric make any equipment for >the DEC world? Still have nothing on this board. Could it be an OEM module of some sort? Someday, later this winter, I'll do one of my complete reverse-engineerings of this thing (like good old Tony D. does also) and try to see what it's about. Hey! If it's Unibus and if it is useable as simply a digital I/O interface module, then I'll use my 11/34A as the host in the Home Security and Environmental Control System that I'm brainstorming! (Well, gotta have some fun anyway. Better than the 8052 microcontroller chip-based thing I was planning to use.) [Okay, joke-mode is off now... ] > >#3 This is what I feel is an Archive tape controller. It has "ARCHIVE >CORP. Copyright 1983" silk screened onto the component side. No other >numbers on the silk screen, dang it. It is 5.5" x 7.75" with a 50-pin edge >connector (marked "J1") on one 5.5" end and a 50-pin header (marked "J3") >at the other end. "J2" is a 4-pin recepticle which is the same as the power >connector on a 5.25" floppy or hard drive and is on the edge connector-end >of the board. The EPROM label has 80182-010 on it. Has an 8031 >microcontroller chip, an 8155 and an Archive LCC ASIC plus a bunch of TTL >and one small CMOS RAM chip (Mitsubishi M5M2167P-70). Other numbers found >on the board seem to be component part numbers however there is a >hand-written number on the solder side which is 80158-013/A. Could this be >an important identifying number? Archive is basically dead in that they have been absorbed by the Conner/Seagate mess and probably no legacy info had been carried onward :( So, I'm still looking to confirm this thing. > >I want to try to identify these boards to see if theyt are useable in the >systems I'm keeping, especially item #1. > >Thanks for the help. >--Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 16 13:10:43 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <9806169006.AA900638036@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Phil Beesley wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dave dameron >> >Speaking of books, >> >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >> >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. > > If anybody in the UK is interested in getting this book, I saw a copy > of this recently (two or three pounds) and I'm happy to go back for > it. Yes please. I'll try and pop into Leic. again soon and pick it up (I live at Coalville). If I thought I'd get to Leic. this weekend I'd say, tell me where and I'll buy it myself. But I am fully booked for the next three weekends, I think :-( Philip. PS Don't forget to read it before you give it to me! From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 16 12:14:42 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807161714.AA26136@world.std.com> < Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the < ringers? The amplitude is low compared to the ring signal and it's very short blip of data. Ring is 90-120v, voice and id are in the under two volts region. Max, please edit the copy string! bandwidth is limited and I can remember what I wrote even at my advenced age. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 16 12:25:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <35ADF258.9B2B4D5D@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The caller id info rides as a carrier on the line too at a different > frequency than the voice signal so that only the id box (and similar > instruments) can read it. If I'm not mistaken it's sent as a 300 baud > carrier. The way it senses the ring is the increase in DC line voltage from > an average 35vdc to around 80vdc, telling itself to look for and recieve a > data string which includes time and date. When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're talking) there is 12v on the line. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Thu Jul 16 13:26:10 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 16, 98 01:06:36 pm Message-ID: <199807161826.OAA07522@shell.monmouth.com> In a message Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian wrote: > > Could you give an example where we may have seen a QIC36 or QIC02 tape? It > doesn't ring a bell here. > The tapes are DC300, DC450, DC600, DC6150, DC6250, DC6350 etc. They've been used in everything from Sun and other Unix workstations through PDP's to early PC/XT's. Common manufacturers were Archive, Techmar, Tandberg. QIC-36 and QIC-02 were the interface standards for the drives. QIC-36 and QIC-02 drives often could interchange tapes. The difference was the amount of smarts in the controller vs. the tape drive (I seem to remember). My PC and some workstations used QIC-36 tape drives with a QIC36-QIC02 converter board. Some of these also used QIC-36 or QIC-02 to SCSI converters. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 16 14:29:00 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: <9806169006.AA900642716@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write: > > << I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. > >> > > hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a > computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a > pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything! 3380s and 3880s were certainly around when I was at IBM in 1985-86, mostly on 308X mainframes. I'll have a look-see if I have any info (probably just marketing bumf as usual). It is the clear plastic case that intrigues me. Do you mean you can see the platters and heads and things? I have a vague memory of the HDs in our system/34 being like that. Nice. I also once saw a later disk model (9330 or something like that?), demo version, which not only had a clear plastic case, but had the platters replaced by discs of clear plastic, too. It didn't power up or anything - strictly for showing tourists when on the factory tour... Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 16 14:35:41 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806169006.AA900643076@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're > talking) there is 12v on the line. I think the 48V on hook and 12V off hook is historical - in the days of long copper wires back to the exchange, it was all done from the 48V battery - 12V was all that was left after voltage drop when the 30mA or so (apparently the carbon microphone needs at least 23mA to work well) had to go the several miles to your house and back. May still be like that, come to think of it. Those on shorter lines had higher resistance phones to compensate. In the 1960s (? What date is the 706 anyway ?), many UK phones had the "line drop compensator" on a plug-in module, presumably so you could swap it for one with different resistors... Philip. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 10:02:16 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard Message-ID: <199807161916.PAA09600@smtp.interlog.com> One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a title VC404 The Standard. It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable which is about the size of a C64 with Function Pf1-12 buttons as well as a separate pod with APL,PAGE,FULL,LOCAL on the left vertically. There is a full qwerty alphabet and numerical pad as well as some specialized keys the most unusual of which is a key labelled "rub-out" and no down arrow. In the back it has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches : one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off" It also has cutouts for parallell and serial (maybe a 9pin dshell for different modems) I haven't opened it up yet, and I must admit to doing what the impeccable Tony Duell would deem unforgiveable (sorry Tony, Couldn't he'p m'se'f) I plugged it in and tuned it on. It worked except for a stuck k-b which stopped printing to screen when I punched another key than local on the right-most pad. Obviosly a terminal of some sort, but the keypads are not what I would expect. My guess is it's a terminal for the deaf which hooked up to a service. But why all the other k-b functions. Any ideas ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 10:02:18 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807161916.PAA09613@smtp.interlog.com> This thread is becoming awesome!! OK I've been holding off. Since I'm the great procrastinator, I've been avoiding catalogueing what I've got. Synapsis is I've got 40 to 50 computers, heavy into Atari and PS2 Many monitors that I'm weeding out to keep the unique ones like the Radius Portrait for Apples or historic like the IBM 5151and 5153. Vic-20, C-64 ,C-64c, C128 Mac Plus, Apple II, IIPlus , IIe CoCo 1 and CoCo 2 TI 4/99 TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough to power a small villiage. Epson QX-10 which I'm only missing a monitor to activate. Phillips XT Luggable with pop-up floppies. The nicest design I've seen yet for a luggable. Kaypro 2X that I haven't got running yet, but soon. DEC Rainbow, one of my first garbage finds that after 4 years I finally have the all hardware for. Last week a local store anti'd up a BC002 cable. Wang PC002 no means of I/O , but I'm sure it will turn up. NEC Prospeed 286 laptop Numerous other MSDOS boxes I think what especially interests me are the external hacks. Like the Intel Inboard 386 board.in a 5150, or the hardcard drives. I have a good proportion of the Atari and C64 add-ons. I have an X1541 cable for a C64. The adapter on my CoCo 2 that I still haven't explored its use. A Videomate to use my old boxes as TV's long before the new TV cards for Windoze. Of course you could do the same with a VCR and a composite video. Quickshot remote control Joysticks Some graphics tablets. These were all attempts to respond to a burgeoning home-computer market that were developed in response to consaumer wants. Many of these small but highly innovative companies quickly disappeared. The boards switches were not easily evident unless you had the documentataion So if the board cloned the IBM docunentation you're home-free but if it was a board that had anomilies, you're on your own. That to me is one of the values of this m-l . Having access to true hardware hackers like Tony Duell and Allison and others. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 10:02:15 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> References: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199807161916.PAA09626@smtp.interlog.com> > At 18:51 14-07-98 +0000, you wrote: > >Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote: > > > > > >BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian > > A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is > built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the > air passing through. You see HEPA filters more and more in consumer related > things (at least I have in the States). Example: Air filters in many modern > automobiles, possibly all autos, use a HEPA filter for engine air intake > filtering. Clearances between engine parts are closer nowadays which > improves engine performance and efficiency plus smaller engines are > stressed harder in relatively large modern cars, both thus requiring really > clean air intake. > > > Also, I think I've seen an advertisement for a fancy grade household vacuum > cleaner advertising it has a HEPA filter on its exhaust. Less allergens > blown about. We use Nilfisk-brand cleanroom vacuum cleaners at work. Made > in Denmark I believe. Cost around US$1000 each but they're meant for use > *in* cleanrooms and *must* not throw junk about from their exhaust. > Do you remember the brand-name by any chance ? I have a couple of Filter Queen vacuums that have 2 filters and supposedly "cleans" the air emitted via an exhaust port that can be used for vapor or spray painting accessories. ciao lary lwalker@interlog.com From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Jul 16 14:16:35 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Message-ID: Nope, I'm not that Kai, and I'm far from a recent addition to the group, either :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 5:39 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips > on where to look for interesting old computer gear. > > This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on > your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't > tell anyone your secrets, I swear! Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 16 14:52:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> Message-ID: OK, here's a list of t'puter stuff I've got: 3L Parallel C (D711D) B008 Support Software (S708A) OCCAM2 Toolset (D705B) I thought I also had the B008 Hardware User's guide that describes the DIP switch settings, but it's nowhere to be found :-( -- Doug From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 16 14:54:56 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <9807160003.AA11789@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > Several years ago, when I was living on Marion Ave in Pasadena CA, > > > I was quite surprised that a more solidly remembered maker of CP/M > > > tools, Workman and Associates, was my next door neighbor :-). > > > > You do get around, don't you Tim? > > Shortly after moving onto Marion, I was sorting through some old > documentation, saw the address, and thought "Hey, that's right > next door"! > > > Yes, they were a a familiar name. And I think may be still around - > > though I doubt much involved with CP/M these days. > > A quick web search shows many mentions of Workman and Associates > in Jerry Pournelle's columns, undoubtedly because his son Alex > works there! Poor Jerry - only guy I ever knew to be kicked > off the ARPAnet... I was going to mention that fact, Tim, but some freudian mental block kept me from accessing Jerry's name :-> - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 16 16:12:58 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806169006.AA900643076@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. > > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during > > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're > > talking) there is 12v on the line. > > I think the 48V on hook and 12V off hook is historical - in the days of > long copper wires back to the exchange, it was all done from the 48V > battery - 12V was all that was left after voltage drop when the 30mA or > so (apparently the carbon microphone needs at least 23mA to work well) > had to go the several miles to your house and back. May still be like > that, come to think of it. The voltages must remain the same in order to be compatible with old equipment per government regulations. Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old (ancient) rotary dial telephones. The part about the voltage drop definitely applies still today as you're looking at several hundred ohms of resistance in the "subscriber loop" (the loop from the telco to the home). > Those on shorter lines had higher resistance phones to compensate. In > the 1960s (? What date is the 706 anyway ?), many UK phones had the > "line drop compensator" on a plug-in module, presumably so you could > swap it for one with different resistors... Interesting. I've never heard of this, but then you Euro folks do things oddly over there :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From peacock at simconv.com Thu Jul 16 16:31:15 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4CE@mail.simconv.com> > Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old (ancient) rotary dial telephones. Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home. It's not so ancient, anyway, it's worked for the last 30 years, probably good for another 30. The bell is disconnected so it doesn't ring, an excellent feature. Jack Peacock From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 16 16:26:55 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: <199807161826.OAA07522@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807162129.VAA09597@cyber2.servtech.com> At 14:26 16-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >In a message Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian wrote: >> >> Could you give an example where we may have seen a QIC36 or QIC02 tape? It >> doesn't ring a bell here. >> > >The tapes are DC300, DC450, DC600, DC6150, DC6250, DC6350 etc. >They've been used in everything from Sun and other Unix workstations >through PDP's to early PC/XT's. > >Common manufacturers were Archive, Techmar, Tandberg. >QIC-36 and QIC-02 were the interface standards for the >drives. QIC-36 and QIC-02 drives often could interchange tapes. >The difference was the amount of smarts in the controller vs. the >tape drive (I seem to remember). Aha! Now I can connect QIC36/QIC02.... My HP 250 uses DC600 type tape carts. Thanks Bill, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 12:39:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807160154.VAA08775@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Jul 15, 98 09:54:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 993 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/8800f204/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 13:24:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 15, 98 08:45:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/5d2a8232/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 13:28:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807160716.ZM10666@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 16, 98 06:16:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/9d006c74/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 13:13:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: A couple more questions, 8/M's and Es In-Reply-To: <35AD74DB.AE6127B9@freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 15, 98 08:34:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/d3e99f41/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 13:47:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <9E31DF46CA@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Jul 16, 98 11:20:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/c8d83c22/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 15:38:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Mac 512 video mods In-Reply-To: from "Phil Beesley" at Jul 16, 98 05:21:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2111 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/1f886aa1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 15:40:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807161630.JAA11612@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 16, 98 09:30:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 787 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/7648308a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 15:46:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Q-bus boards I need ID of... In-Reply-To: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 16, 98 01:06:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980716/14e92c3d/attachment.ksh From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Thu Jul 16 17:07:18 1998 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Denver sources? Message-ID: In Denver try Fistell's Electronics and Crump Electronics and in Boulder try J.B. Saunders. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: Uncle Roger [mailto:sinasohn@ricochet.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Denver sources? > > > My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the > beginning of August, > and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our > destination. So, > does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? > (And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep > the gf happy > too! 8^) Thanks! > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but > madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jul 16 17:10:00 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt's message of Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:26:55 -0400 References: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> <199807162129.VAA09597@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807162210.PAA27632@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Christian Fandt wrote: > Aha! Now I can connect QIC36/QIC02.... My HP 250 uses DC600 type tape carts. Don't be too sure of that. If it's a 9144 drive or one integrated in a 79xx disc drive, it uses tapes that are mechanically the same but with a completely different format called HCD that predates the QIC formats and cannot be completely recorded in the field. THe format involves full-width block markers that can't be recorded by the heads in the drives. Bob Niland used to post something about this over in comp.sys.hp.* when someone popped the question. Go do a search in DejaNews for author rjn@csn.net in comp.sys.hp.hardware looking for the keywords QIC and HCD and you will probably turn it up. -Frank McConnell From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 18:09:14 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980716230914.21397.qmail@hotmail.com> Has anyone built any of these? Does anyone have any extra copies? >Indeed it is. 1966 IIRC Are any still in publication or recently gone out of? >I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc, please ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 16 18:17:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807162317.AA14314@world.std.com> < > When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. < > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during < > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're < > talking) there is 12v on the line. the voltages are wildly approximate. It's current that does the work! On hook is sensed by some current flowing and the threshhold is about 5-10ma may be more. Ring is ac coupled but the voltage is set so the energy level of the ringer is met despite the loop (line) resistance. the only one that was nominal was onhook of ~48v. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 18:08:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <199807161916.PAA09600@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 16, 98 03:02:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3103 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/88ed68da/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 18:19:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806169006.AA900643076@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 16, 98 07:35:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/2534abd8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 18:25:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: <199807161826.OAA07522@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Jul 16, 98 02:26:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/d262ba69/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 16 18:57:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980716230914.21397.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 16, 98 04:09:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 249 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/1d7bcc32/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 15:20:19 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: DEC Stuff FS in Switzerland Message-ID: <199807170022.UAA29888@smtp.interlog.com> Spotted this in the DEC newsgroup. For our euro friends. DO NOT REPLY TO ME - REPLY TO ORIGINAL POSTER From: Peter Mueri Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: FS DEC material Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:14:18 +0000 Organization: 64 Bit Linux/AXP forever! For Sale 1 Vaxmate Computer with HD Box sFr. 100 1 DEC uVAX 2000 sFr. 200 1 DEC uVAX 2000 4MB Memory Board sFr. 20 1 DEC VaxStation2000 RD54 RGB-19" sFr. 400 1 DEC Monitor 19" B/W VR100 55kHz sFr. 30 1 PDP-11/70 Plessey Core Memory sFr. 10 1 Rainbow Computer with DOS and CP/M and table sFr. 100 1 DEC VT100 sFr. 20 1 DEC VT240 Console sFr. 20 various DEC MFM HDs Prices are pick/up prices in Switzerland. Willing to trade-in McIntosh CPUs. Peter lwalker@interlog.com From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Jul 16 18:26:42 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Developing my Web site Message-ID: <001601bdb11f$544432a0$42b9fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I thought that I'd share with you that I'm beginning my own classic computing web site. I was fortunate enough to find a gentleman in Vancouver who will sponsoring this effort. His particular interest is in PDP equipment. Right now, he hosts a PDP8 document archive. The first thing to be posted will be scans of the printsets that I recently got. I'd also like to reproduce the hardware user manuals that I own (which are on the order of 2 or 3 copy paper boxes worth). I also intend to post the Altair scans that I've been holding, server space allowing, of course. I'll take some time, but when it's up, I'll solicit document donations. More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Jul 16 18:54:41 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:20 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <001701bdb11f$56974a60$42b9fea9@mainoffice> One of my recent time sink-hole projects is de-compiling DOS 1.1. I figure that I needed a computing challenge :) Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? I know that DOS as we know it was purchased from Tim Patterson of Seattle Computing Products (Is this the right name? I don't have a copy of one of my many Gates books handy.), so the source code in printed, magnetic, or paper tape form would have existed. Would they have used a PC simulator running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair)? Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live after months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents? Anyway, I digress. I've pretty much finished the boot sector code, and IBMBIO is done. So, now I'm working on IBMDOS. Does anyone know anything about how early DOS versions loaded? Looking at the DOS1 code and comparing it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DOS back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then loads DOS. Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates are May 7, 1982 Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 20:15:27 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: book "We Built our own Computers" Message-ID: <199807170115.SAA29289@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi all, At 11:09 PM 7/16/98 +1000, Phil wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: dave dameron >>Speaking of books, >>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Bolt, >>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. ^^ > >Yes, I've got it here (bought as part of a $3 per bag haul from a charity >book sale a month ago). ... >I see a few other replies, so that it is not all that rare :( >- but what exactly did you want to know for? > OK, Thanks, One of my collection interests is for computer construction books and articles. This book was mentioned in another article without any details. If copies are floating around, I might find one yet. -Dave From marvin at rain.org Thu Jul 16 22:36:29 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? References: <199807161452.QAA25746@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <35AEC6BD.7E0652B3@rain.org> Hans Franke wrote: > > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > >>[...] > > Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created > by? Haven't > > seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I > may just be > > on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) > > I think you are talking about Kai Krause - he is already > living somehere in California :) I don't know Kai Krause, but the company that produces the "Goo" programs is in Carpinteria (about 12 miles south of Santa Barbara.) From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 16 22:50:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <199807170350.AA22314@world.std.com> < running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair) < Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live afte < months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents? Likely they used a intel MDS800 running asm86 or PLM86. They could run on intel ISB86 systems (multibus 8086 based). the 8086 was introdued in '78 and available in '79 so hardware was not a problem. Heck they could ahve used a Seattle Computers S100 8086 crate. < it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DO < back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then < jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then < loads DOS. < < Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates < are May 7, 1982 The monolithic load is an artifact of the CP/m heritage in general and specifically CP/M1.4. It's effect was to make loading drivers difficult. That resulted in later version loading the IO which is more extensable and then using the io to load the DOS. I may add that CP/M2.x put more of the burden in the bios and also seperated the load preocess more. Parallel development. Allison From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 17 01:12:38 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Robot books, was How many computers? Message-ID: <199807170612.XAA08899@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 09:40 PM 7/16/98 +0100, Tony wrote: >> Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot >> construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers. > >I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc, please > He wrote many, I think about all for TAB books, now part of McGraw Hill. 'Build your own working Robot', 1976. TTL, sorry my copy has been borrowed and lost. Must still be much easier to find, at least in the U.S. than "We Built our own Computers" 'How to build your own self-programming Robot', 1979. Used a 8085. Has a convoluted final algorithm (to me) to determine responses. 'How to build your own working Robot, the second Generation', 1987. Still TTL, about 30 ic's, 4 bits input (bumpers), 4 bits output (2 drive motors). Other's I haven't seen are '101 Programming Surprises and Tricks for the IBM PC'. Of course today there are all sorts of robots with PIC microcontrollers, etc. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 17 01:12:41 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Valve robots, was How many computers? Message-ID: <199807170612.XAA08921@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi All, At 12:57 AM 7/17/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> >> Has anyone built any of these? Does anyone have any extra copies? >> >Indeed it is. 1966 IIRC > >One day I might have a go at said robotic dog - assuming I can find >enough DF92s, etc. Doing it in transistors wouldn't be the same :-) > >-tony > Any kind of description would be appreciated! What did it do? How many tubes/valves, etc.? I looked up the U.S. equivalent tube for the DF92 valve and found the 1L4. A similar one, much more common is a 1U4, used in many portable radios before transistors. All battery filament (1.4 volts, 50mA) miniature pentodes. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 17 01:47:10 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 16, 19:28) References: Message-ID: <9807170747.ZM11577@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 16, 19:28, Tony Duell wrote: > > devices play merry hell with Acorn's Tube code, which tends to see that > > something is there but can't deal with it. > > :-(. What do you do on a machine with a DNFS ROM, then if you add a Torch > Copro? It depends on the version of the Torch ROM. In some cases, changing the order of the MCP (for Torch Z80) and DNFS ROMs makes it usable. Usually I softload the MCP ROM, though, else it complains if the Torch Z80 isn't there. > > I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a > > Graduate, so I'll ask him today. > > Please do. I've got the Z-80 host ROM (and know of a few more if this one is > dead), but I don't have any other Torch ROMs. I forgot :-( I'll remember today, honest. I've got several versions of the MCP ROM, if you need one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 17 02:17:44 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS In-Reply-To: <001701bdb11f$56974a60$42b9fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 16, 98 07:54:41 pm Message-ID: <199807170717.AAA00589@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/f1ff1c47/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 22:47:24 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980716135840.1160.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807170749.DAA18814@smtp.interlog.com> > Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the > ringers? > > >Wrong. > > > >Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would > disturb > >the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller > ID > >that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a > non-DC > >(capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows > >it to hear the ring and the data. > > > >Allison > > I have some Tapes and documentation from Northern Telecom from one of my curbside finds. The tapes are labelled 5 Fifty 5, which I imagine is the program name and 1600bpi 310Hci . There is also rather thick book SL-1 Business Communications System. Generic X11. Anyone wants it it's available for shipping costs. Hate to toss it as it must be valuable to someone into telephonery. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 16 22:47:25 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: References: <199807161916.PAA09600@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 16, 98 03:02:16 pm Message-ID: <199807170749.DAA18817@smtp.interlog.com> > > > > One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company > > based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a > > title VC404 The Standard. It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable which is > > about the size of a C64 with Function Pf1-12 buttons as well as a separate > > pod with APL,PAGE,FULL,LOCAL on the left vertically. There is a full > > qwerty alphabet and numerical pad as well as some specialized keys the most > > unusual of which is a key labelled "rub-out" and no down arrow. In the back it > > has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches : > > Are you sure it's a BNC connector? All the ones I've seen have an SO239 (what > we call an UHF connector) here. > My terminology is undoubtably wrong. I went thru my old Electro Sonic catalogue and it is listed as an Amphenol 83 series UHF RF connector. It has threads as opposed to the BNC horizontal pin. > > one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off" It also has > > cutouts for parallell and serial (maybe a 9pin dshell for different modems) > > I haven't opened it up yet, and I must admit to doing what the impeccable > > Tony Duell would deem unforgiveable (sorry Tony, Couldn't he'p m'se'f) > > You are forgiven :-). > > > I plugged it in and tuned it on. It worked except for a stuck k-b which > > stopped printing to screen when I punched another key than local on the > > right-most pad. > > Obviosly a terminal of some sort, but the keypads are not what I would expect. > > My guess is it's a terminal for the deaf which hooked up to a service. But why > > all the other k-b functions. Any ideas ? > > {FX : ARD searching through a large bookcase} > > I have here the VC414/VC415 technical manual, amazingly. Yes, I know you > have a VC404, but read on. > > It's a standard ASCII terminal, but it can take some interesing options. > > First pull the case (2 screws on the back). Inside, there's a > PSU/backplane in the bottom. Looking from the rear, there's a little > board towards the right linked to the CRT. On the left there are 2 > vertical larger PCBs. > > Now, the difference between a VC404 and a VC414 is those 2 boards. The > 404 is entirely hardwired TTL, I think. The 414 uses a 6800 > microprocessor. The 404 could be upgraded into a 414 by replacing those 2 > boards. So the first thing to do is to remove those boards and look at them. > This is like a guided tour :^)) Exactly as you describe. The boards are interestingly laid out and labelled with a horizontal matrix 1-10 and a vertically ascending A-G with the chips lined up. The first board has a large chip at B-6,7,8 a GI logo(?) AY-5 1013A and 7928. On the second there is a motorola chip at F-9,10 MR8701 SCM37734P 7947 and a mini switch-bank 1-8 with the first 4 REV, 50 ,LINE ,FLASH. > I have scheamtics for the backplane, monitor, assorted keyboards and the > VC414 boards. I don't have the VC404 board schematics, alas. > > Now for the most interesting option. That APL key selects (or can select, > given the right character generator kludgeboard) a second character set > for APL. You know, all those strange symbols. I _think_ they replace the > upper case letters. I didn't realise that was available on the VC404. > > The VC414 was made in a number of versions to emulate various terminals, > depending on the ROMs on the CPU board. I guess the VC404 isn't like > that, though. > > There were various keyboards made. I've got info on the KB4410, KB5301, > KB4408, KB4412, KB5201, and a microprocessor (8048 controlled) keyboard. > Do you see any of those numbers on your keyboard? > Yes it has the KB4412 G3. > You may need a square (Robertson?) screwdriver to take the keyboard > apart. I did.... > > -tony > Well, it looks like I'm going to have to read up on terminals. I really know little about them. It has baud rate settings on the back 300 - 19.2 . I'm surprised at the speed. I would have thought 2400 or at most 9600. Thanks for the help. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Jul 17 03:59:11 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806179006.AA900691316@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Tony Duell quoted me as having written: >> battery - 12V was all that was left after voltage drop when the 30mA or > > Don't forget the few volts (probably 10V or so) dropped across the line relay > coils at the exchange to sense the off-hook condition. The system is > (obviously) designed so that a short on the line (no matter how short the > line is) won't cause damage. Applying 'battery' straight to a line wouldn't > allow for this. Good point. >> had to go the several miles to your house and back. May still be like >> that, come to think of it. > > AFAIK it is. The specs of 'phone lines rarely change, and there are plenty > of 706's and 746's still in use. Maybe even the odd 300-series. I still use a tone-dial 746 as one of my phones and a rotary dial 300-series wall mount version (don't know the number) as my other. The only two reasons I don't use my type 332 are 1) the induction coil is dead and 2) I have now borrowed microphone and speaker diaphragm to keep the wall mount one going. > Note for US types. UK 'phone wiring then was even stranger than it is Another note for US types. Type 330 and its derivatives = pre-war design of phone. My 332 actually has cloth insulation on internal wires, although the (much rarer) wall mounted one has plastic insulation. Late 1950s (?), much lighter design, PCB based, introduced, called 706. As components got smaller, the number and size of PCBs reduced, and the 746 has all the components, including the line drop compensator (resistors, diodes, light bulbs) on a single PCB. This design remained in use for around 20 years - PCB from phone circa 1970 interchangeable with PCB from phone circa 1990, the main difference being the size of the capacitors and (if you're lucky) the provision of a few extra screw terminals. (dial, bell, handset etc. all terminated with ring or fork (spade) terminals to screw onto these). I keep several type 746 phones in stock - people still occasionally want rotary dial phones... >> the 1960s (? What date is the 706 anyway ?), many UK phones had the >> "line drop compensator" on a plug-in module, presumably so you could >> swap it for one with different resistors... > > AFAIK the 'line drop compensator' had a constant-current barretter lamp > on it, and there was only one version. Certainly I've only ever seen one > version, and that's the one shown in all schematics. Alas my copy of I've only ever seen one version, but then again, I've never seen a schematic that actually gives the resistor values. > You could plug the 'line drop compensator in upside-down, whereupon it > was out of circuit and it bridged the appropriate terminals to use the > 'phone without it. I beleive you did this at the end of very long lines. Could be what I was thinking of. Philip. From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Jul 17 09:56:54 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: <9E31DF46CA@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Jul 16, 98 11:20:47 am Message-ID: > > For the record, I've: > > A lot more than me :-). > > I've got a lot of compute TRAMs (T2, T4, T8 based), a SCSI TRAM, a GPIB > TRAM and an Ethernet TRAM. Oh, and a couple of VecTRAMs (T800 + array > processor chip). But you can probably make them all work together! OK so I can use the three TRAMs on the Transtech (five if I could find another two size one TRAMs) but I have dreams of hypercubes. Sad but true ;-) > > A ST101 has a number of dip switches and a few jumpers (may be > > wrong here) and a D25 connector. I've not got the pinout for > > the connector. I was wrong, it has 8+6 dip switches and no jumpers > Do you have a Transputer data book? I've found it's generally quite easy > to at least find the links, link speed jumpers, clock speed jumpers, etc > given a transputer pinout. If you need that, I'll e-mail it to you, > either the PGA or PLCC version. I've a 1991 Data Book (see below) but its a bit modern for my boards (I've nothing with crossbar switching), none of which match the number of jumpers and dip switches but perhaps a more careful reading by me will give me a few more hints etc. > > > What Transputer books do you have? Didn't recall having this many but its amazing what you can find if you go looking: A white corrugated plastic 'briefcase' 14" x 11" x 3" bearing the legends: THE T9000 TRANSPUTER INMOS SGS-THOMSON MICROELECTRONICS and containing: The transputer instruction set - a compiler writers' guide (March 1987) The T9000 transputer (basically a set of OHP transparencies from a seminar) IMS T400 transputer Advance Data (November 1989) The Transputer Development and iq systems Databook (2nd edition 1991) The T9000 Transputer Products Overview Manual (1st edition 1991) The Transputer Applications Notebook (1st edition 1989) The Graphics Databook (2nd edition 1990) Transtech Parallel Technology Product Overview (a sales catalogue) Transtech Price Guide (for the above) (June 1991) Technical Note 70 Connecting 100MBaud T9000 Transputer Links (April 1991) -2- From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 17 06:19:23 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807170905.LAA26109@marina.fth.sbs.de> > The voltages must remain the same in order to be compatible with old > equipment per government regulations. Believe it or not there are still > many people out there with old (ancient) rotary dial telephones. a) Don't forget about these pseudo modern phones - keys, but still emiting pulse scemes. b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue) exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Jul 17 10:10:00 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> Message-ID: > OK, here's a list of t'puter stuff I've got: > 3L Parallel C (D711D) > B008 Support Software (S708A) > OCCAM2 Toolset (D705B) > I thought I also had the B008 Hardware User's guide that describes the DIP > switch settings, but it's nowhere to be found :-( > > -- Doug Many thanks for looking. The problem I have is that the boards I have are similar to the standard but have different numbers of dip switches and/or jumpers and 2^20 possible combinations takes a lot of time when you have to power off the PC every time. Approx 10 years at 5 minutes an attempt per board - theoretically I could have all four sussed in 40 years at 24 hours per day :-). Doug. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jul 17 04:13:15 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :) btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd imagine that US and UK systems work with different setups.... cheers Jules (ok, so it's not on-topic - thought I'd ask though before this thread disappears :) From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 17 06:26:52 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807170912.LAA26910@marina.fth.sbs.de> > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? Do you have an online picture ? > Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart > and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough > to power a small villiage. Same here: Any picture for the Micom 2000 available ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jul 17 04:18:06 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: Hi, So can any of you recommend a good book on how transputers work in a broad sense? I occasionally have the urge to take all the old PC system boards lying around and construct some form of transputer system - ok, so it's impractical, would be a lot of work, and wouldn't be of any benefit at all, but it would be an interesting exercise :) (so I'm crazy... just seems a shame that I've got various system boards lying around unused that can't be made into complete machines and are of no use to anyone else...) Jules > From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jul 17 04:28:49 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: >> A _very_ good book for the older stuff (manual switchboards, relays, >> step-by-step 2-motion selectors) is called 'Telephony' by (IIRC) Herbert > and Proctor. It's a UK book,... Hmm, I'll have to check that out. > >> 'Tip' and 'Ring' refer, of course to the 2 contacts on a 3-wire jack >> (phone?) plug - like a stereo headphone plug, used on the old manual >> switchboards. The other contact - sleeve (aka the 'P wire') was used in >> the exchange to check if a line was in use (P=Private, I think). I always did wonder. I've got a couple of old (can't remember the exact date, but I'd say early 70's at a guess) answering machines somewhere which make use of such plugs. I'd love to wire one of these things up to a phone circuit if possible, I doubt that it could be done though - the systems were badged "Ansafone" IIRC, making use of enormous reel-to-reel tape decks and foot pedals... :) (I suppose this could be judged almost-on-topic, if the phone system is deemed to be some giant computer, and the technology, after all, is more than 10 years old) cheers Jules > From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 17 04:23:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote: > I have are similar to the standard but have different numbers > of dip switches and/or jumpers and 2^20 possible combinations > takes a lot of time when you have to power off the PC every > time. Approx 10 years at 5 minutes an attempt per board - > theoretically I could have all four sussed in 40 years at > 24 hours per day :-). Sounds like a job for transputers :-) I assume you've already tried posting a query in comp.sys.transputer. It's not very active, but yesterday a few people were making noise about SGS Thompson T'products. -- Doug From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Jul 17 10:47:24 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Sounds like a job for transputers :-) I assume you've already tried > posting a query in comp.sys.transputer. It's not very active, but > yesterday a few people were making noise about SGS Thompson T'products. Tried comp.sys.transputer three times since late '97. As here, lots of helpful suggestions (none on the first attempt but the second and third ateempts were more sucessfull) but all the documentation for these boards has vanished :-(. I'll probably keep trying. The sundance web site is good (with complete scanned documentation for their later products) but not quite far enough back for ye olde ST101. The transtech web site doesn't have the depth of information provided by sundance. Some of the people from gemini ended up at sundance. I've not yet searched for microway. Doug. From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 17 04:53:38 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > So can any of you recommend a good book on how transputers work in a > broad sense? I occasionally have the urge to take all the old PC system > boards lying around and construct some form of transputer system - ok, > so it's impractical, would be a lot of work, and wouldn't be of any > benefit at all, but it would be an interesting exercise :) A transputer is a specific type of processor from inmos (IIRC), so you wouldn't be able to easily make one from bits of other computers (although Tony could probably find a way :-). However, you could certainly build a parallel processing supercomputer from a bunch of old PCs. In fact, that was the original idea behind Cal Tech's Cosmic Cube which eventually led to Intel's hypercubes (such as the iPSC/1). I wouldn't be surpised if somebody still has the Cosmic Cube code around, which would allow you to network some 8088-based machines to create a hypercube. I have an old Unix-based hypercube simulator from Intel which was based on the Cosmic Cube code, but I haven't looked into the copyright issues. -- Doug From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jul 17 05:25:57 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: >> So can any of you recommend a good book on how transputers work in a >> broad sense? I occasionally have the urge to take all the old PC system >> boards lying around and construct some form of transputer system - ok, >> so it's impractical, would be a lot of work, and wouldn't be of any >> benefit at all, but it would be an interesting exercise :) > >> A transputer is a specific type of processor from inmos (IIRC), so you you learn something new every day (or in my case, several hundred things ;) I always thought that transputer was a general term for any processing component in a parallel system. >> However, you could certainly build a parallel processing supercomputer >> from a bunch of old PCs. In fact, that was the original idea behind Cal >> Tech's Cosmic Cube which eventually led to Intel's hypercubes (such as the >> iPSC/1). hmm, wait for Java chips to really take off and write the whole lot in Java... now there's a plan... :*) > >> I wouldn't be surpised if somebody still has the Cosmic Cube code around, >> which would allow you to network some 8088-based machines to create a >> hypercube. I have an old Unix-based hypercube simulator from Intel which >> was based on the Cosmic Cube code, but I haven't looked into the copyright >> issues. parallel systems was a whole area that I never got too heavily in to at university and regretted it afterwards (and being a fairly specialist area it probably means you can get away from bad products produced by monopolising companies :^) I was tempted to ask how fast these 8088-based 'cubes were, but I suppose it's really hard to describe real-world performance of such systems without actually using them... Jules > From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 17 05:57:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > I was tempted to ask how fast these 8088-based 'cubes were, but I > suppose it's really hard to describe real-world performance of such > systems without actually using them... Not very fast, but Intel refined the idea, and I believe they had the world's fastest supercomputer at one point. The basic idea was that you take two elements: a processor and a communication channel, put a bunch of them together is a hypercube topology (in which each node talks to its N nearest neighbors in an N-dimensional cube), and then partition your problem so the processors could work on it in parallel. So, in theory, a 5-cube with 32 processors could run up to 32 times faster than a single-CPU computer. In practice, communication overhead between the nodes can kill performance, and it's not always easy to (re)structure a problem to take advantage of the parallelism. I never worked directly with transputers, but I think the topology was pretty similar, and the operating environment was based on something called Occam. Somebody else with Occam experience should chime in here, but it was basically a language and underlying multiprocess OS that allowed programs to automatically scale to as many processors as were present. -- Doug From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Jul 17 12:17:02 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers - Torch ROMS In-Reply-To: <9807170747.ZM11577@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 16, 19:28) Message-ID: > > Please do. I've got the Z-80 host ROM (and know of a few more if this one > is > > dead), but I don't have any other Torch ROMs. Torch ROM images (and others, e.g. Watford) are available from ftp://ftp.unit.no/pub/bbc/rom/ Doug. (Torch Unicorn owner) From CharlesII at nwonline.net Fri Jul 17 07:08:44 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard Message-ID: CL>> -tony CL>> CL> Well, it looks like I'm going to have to read up on terminals. I really kno CL>little about them. It has baud rate settings on the back 300 - 19.2 . I'm CL>surprised at the speed. I would have thought 2400 or at most 9600. CL> Thanks for the help. CL>ciao larry CL>lwalker@interlog.com The baud speed really isn't that surprising since 19.2 is the speed of the Atari SIO. From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 17 09:44:11 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <199807171230.OAA13320@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an > interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in > beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? 86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086 S100 system for runntime tests. Gruss h. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Jul 17 08:54:31 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS In-Reply-To: <199807170717.AAA00589@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Jul 17, 98 00:17:44 am Message-ID: <9807171254.AA10743@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1015 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/5b2859b5/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 17 08:17:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <199807171317.AA11701@world.std.com> < I would _guess_ that MS-DOS was written and assembled on a CP/M system of < some sort, until it was self-hosting. Although, it's also quite possible < that MS-DOS was assembled on a QDOS system, since that's basically what < it was :) it could have been done under intel ISIS using the MDS-311 package or IRMX-80 or IRMX-86 along with ICE pods. the 8088/86 was a already a mature product by time IBM started the PC and there wre at least three second sources. Also 8086 development tools from Intel, AMD and HP to name a few were available. So developing 808x code was not a problem. I know that as we built a system using 8088 at 8mhz to play with the 7220 GDC which was the hottest thing for graphics on one chip for before the PC would escape into the world. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 17 08:17:43 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807171317.AA12236@world.std.com> < Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone < systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could < detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when < you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call < gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :) for this the US and euro systems are sufficiently the same. < < btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this < job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd < imagine that US and UK systems work with different setups.... the only thing you need to do is detect if the line voltage is above or below some level. that point is best set mid way between battery off hook and battery on hook (easily measured). The only other need is to do it such that you do not load the line(or you look like your off hook) and can withstand the ring without failing the circuit. Likely the circuits you've sen will do that. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 17 08:17:56 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807171317.AA12458@world.std.com> < > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs < < 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? < Do you have an online picture ? Back then SA4000, Memorex M101s were as common as the new ST506/412 drives. I have a M101 here operational on a CCS s100 crate big and like most of the 8"s clear plastc cover to watch the goings on. Allison From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 17 08:52:45 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980717085245.00c777b0@pc> At this point in CP/M and DOS development, it was common to use an automated translation tool to convert 8080 and Z-80 assembler to 8088 code. I believe this was used on early DOS, too. I remember seeing the "signature" of this in disassemblies by the way something was done less than efficiently. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 09:28:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Valve robots, was How many computers? Message-ID: <19980717142810.22530.qmail@hotmail.com> >>Doing it in transistors wouldn't be the same :-) I assume that with enough picking and matching it is possible, _in theory_, to build a similar circuit by replacing vacuum tubes with transistors, i.e. it's just a matter of taste in your case. >> >>-tony >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 09:39:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: <19980717143944.19264.qmail@hotmail.com> What exactly is a transputer and how is it different from a normal CPU? >A transputer is a specific type of processor from inmos (IIRC), so you >wouldn't be able to easily make one from bits of other computers How many processors were in the Cosmic Cube? What kind of speeds did it reach? There was once a Circuit Cellar article on building a parallel processing computer out of a 286 and IIRC from 16 to 256 microcontrollers. All that could do was calculate the mandelbrot set, though, at speed reachable by an i486 (yes, I know that's not the point). >In fact, that was the original idea behind Cal >Tech's Cosmic Cube which eventually led to Intel's hypercubes (such as the >iPSC/1). > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 09:47:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? References: <199807161452.QAA25746@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <35AF63F4.C493EEE0@bbtel.com> Man the name seems familiar for some reason, sorry if I got it confused - bad brain day. Hans Franke wrote: > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > >>[...] > > Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't > > seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be > > on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) > > I think you are talking about Kai Krause - he is already > living somehere in California :) > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 09:52:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4CE@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: <35AF6545.BED2C0EE@bbtel.com> Jack Peacock wrote: > > Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old > (ancient) rotary dial telephones. > > Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home. > It's not so ancient, anyway, it's worked for the last 30 years, probably > good for another 30. The bell is disconnected so it doesn't ring, an > excellent feature. > Jack Peacock I had a box of working analof rotaries, including two black Bell payphones that were all working. Dug it out one day and sold all of them to an antique dealer (except a princess and a wall phone) for $20 each - she's resold them already at over $50 each, basically because they actually worked and were in good looking condition too. The princess is in our bedroom and the wall phone is for our machine shed/shop on the farm here. I did have an "explosion proof" one in the box too, had a heavy receiver and cast aluminm case and sealed wiring everywhere, but that one went at the flea market for $50 as it was. It was bought for a paint shop installation. Well enough off topic nostalgia on real telephones, have to answer this moronic electronic tweet here from the new phone. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 10:02:05 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic off hook indicator References: Message-ID: <35AF676C.CB615D43@bbtel.com> Julian Richardson wrote: > Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone > systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could > detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when > you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call > gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :) > > btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this > job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd Essentially you need a transistor switch that is biased off (no current from emiter to collector) until the voltage is at the off hook level, then it would go to a short condition and pass battery voltage and current through the EC legs and turn on an LED, buzzer, or whatever....Usually powered by a 9v battery and dependant upon the phone current/voltage and the transistor you use, then knock the bias and inputs down with a series of resistors. Tandy/Radio Shack still sells these already made up cheap. My guess is you have similar "off hook indicators" available in GB/UK as well. I use one on my data line to know when this confounded internal modem is still connected and one on the voice line to tell me if there's someone else using the line. I had built 3 of them from a Tab project book that I no longer have but they've been dumped due to a serious lightning strike (and my lack of MOV and gas discharge tubes knowledge then) so they were dumped. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 17 11:09:20 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone > systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could > detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when > you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call > gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :) > > btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this > job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd > imagine that US and UK systems work with different setups.... You want to avoid having your modem interrupt your voice communications? Normally its the other way around, and there are cheap devices you can buy to accomplish this. But I don't know that I understand what your problem is. Modems don't generally start transmitting on their own while you're on the phone, unless they're from the movies where stuff like that can happen. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 17 11:14:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > So, in theory, a 5-cube with 32 processors could run up to 32 times faster > than a single-CPU computer. In practice, communication overhead between > the nodes can kill performance, and it's not always easy to (re)structure > a problem to take advantage of the parallelism. Communication channel limitations aside, isn't the computational increase supposed to be exponential, rather than simply geometrical (or is that arithmatical?) > I never worked directly with transputers, but I think the topology was > pretty similar, and the operating environment was based on something > called Occam. Somebody else with Occam experience should chime in > here, but it was basically a language and underlying multiprocess OS that > allowed programs to automatically scale to as many processors as were > present. Are you listening Rax? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From peacock at simconv.com Fri Jul 17 12:44:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Cross-Assembly (was RE: Re-compiling old DOS) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4D1@mail.simconv.com> >86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086 S100 system for runntime tests. This seems to be another one of those cases where what was once a common software development technique is being lost to changing times. In the 70's, when micros first came out, it was common practice to buy a cross-assembler and simulator that ran on a mini or mainframe. Code was developed and maintained in a familiar environment, run through the simulator, testing as much as possible, then burned into EPROM and installed in the target system. IIRC the original IBM PC BIOS was built this way. When Intel came out with the 8086, they did offer an assembly language translator for 8080 to 8086 code. For the most part there is a 1:1 correspondence for 8080 instructions, except when it came to status flags, so the translator was relatively easy if you had a clean design. In practical terms it was less useful because all you got was the same program without taking advantage of the features unique to the 8086, like segments or 16-bit operations. Cross-assemblers were not unique to micros either. The lab where I worked in the 70's had several stripped down DG Nova 1200s used as embedded controllers. These machines had no console or disk, no operating system, just a paper tape reader bootstrap and a front panel plus some custom electronics. The development cycle was to write a program on the mainframe (CDC 6600), punch a paper tape (yes the CDC did have paper tape output!), load it into the Nova, sacrifice a candy bar to the computer gods, then hit the Run switch. Debugging was front panel lights/switches, several cases of Coke, vending machine candy, and the good ole Single-Step toggle. Jack Peacock From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Jul 17 10:41:20 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807171317.AA12458@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807171943.PAA06945@smtp.interlog.com> > > < > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs > < > < 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? > < Do you have an online picture ? > > Back then SA4000, Memorex M101s were as common as the new ST506/412 > drives. I have a M101 here operational on a CCS s100 crate big and > like most of the 8"s clear plastc cover to watch the goings on. > > Allison > That would be cool. Unfortunately mine are in staid business black. don't know who made them for Tandy. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Jul 17 10:41:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807170912.LAA26910@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <199807171943.PAA06935@smtp.interlog.com> > > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs > > 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? > Do you have an online picture ? > Yes 8 meg. They're TRS-80 branded. I believe they're MFM, and about the size of an XT. > > Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart > > and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough > > to power a small villiage. > > Same here: Any picture for the Micom 2000 available ? > I have the manual which has the usual advertising blurb pictures and some docs from their Micom Club newsletter. It could be used with a modem and when I inquired some 5-6 years ago they still had the program. Wanted $75 for it and you still needed a board ,so I passed. I don't have a web-site or scanner but I might be scanning a few things soon. Depends on the time they'll let me use it. Nice machine, had some graphics ability and a better IMHO word-processing program than Word-Perfect or Wordstar. I dont remember what CPU it used , but I seem to remember it was one of the common ones of the times. Might have been an 8080, not a 6800 . Have to dig it out again one of these days. Charley Fox, a m-l subscriber has a 2001 which was an upgrade. He might have a picture. > > Gruss > H. > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 17 15:16:55 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <199807172024.QAA06434@charity.harvard.net> Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're shipping it to me here in Boston. Thanks to those on the list who gave me pointers on how to find one. Now I gotta order replacement switches for the front panel (Tony heads to his web browser) Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/0e6a5144/attachment.bin From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 16:36:12 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... References: <199807172024.QAA06434@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35AFC3CC.BAC23527@bbtel.com> Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an > undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're > shipping it to me here in Boston. Not even gonna guess what shipping is cross country for that heavy of a machine. Does it work did they say? From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 17 16:38:41 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Communication channel limitations aside, isn't the computational increase > supposed to be exponential, rather than simply geometrical (or is that > arithmatical?) No, I think an exponential (or geometrical) increase would violate a law of thermodynamics :-) The best you can ever hope for is a linear increase with the number of processors, but nobody even gets that. -- Doug From red at bears.org Fri Jul 17 16:49:18 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... In-Reply-To: <35AFC3CC.BAC23527@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Not even gonna guess what shipping is cross country for that heavy of a > machine. Does it work did they say? Considering: My Apollo DN5500 cost almost $250 to ship from CA to WA. Found that out the hard way, and will never make the same mistake again. UPS wouldn't even deliver it, I had to go get it from the regional distribution centre. The machine was barely worth the $100 I offered for it, adding on $250 for shipping really sort of soured me on the whole deal. The machine is pretty much just a standard AT-sized box, although it's a bit heavier due to sturdier construction. The 19" colour monitor weighs about 120 pounds. (and doesn't even give a good picture!) ok r. From peacock at simconv.com Fri Jul 17 17:01:11 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4D3@mail.simconv.com> > Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an > undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're > shipping it to me here in Boston. Advice to a new IMSAI owner: 1) if you take the front panel off, tape the plastic sandwich with the film for the front panel logo so it doesn't come apart. Also, tape the allen head screws on so they don't come out. This is real handy when the time comes to reassemble. You will discover you need 4 hands to do it: one to hold panel, one to position screws, one to hold spacers in back, one to tighten screws. 2) DISCONNECT THE FRONT PANEL AC SWITCH!!! Put an on/off power switch in the back, use a hole next to the fan (most back plates had one. Don't run the AC power through the front panel. 3) If its been heavily used, chances are the bus connectors may be worn. Wiggle cards a bit when STOPed and see if status lights change. You might have to hunt for the least worn slots. 4) Look for purple plague. If it's old, the socketed IC pins or card edge connectors may have oxidation (usually purple or black discoloration). You may need to check the front panel for this if it's socketed. 5) Check the +8, +/-16, and GND pins on the bus connectors before powering up, make sure nothing's shorted. Jack Peacock Using IMSAIs since 1975 From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 17:08:32 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... References: Message-ID: <35AFCB60.E48ADD32@bbtel.com> For that kind of money that close you may have been able to get a weekend rental truck, round trip. R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Not even gonna guess what shipping is cross country for that heavy of a > > machine. Does it work did they say? > > Considering: > > My Apollo DN5500 cost almost $250 to ship from CA to WA. Found that out > the hard way, and will never make the same mistake again. UPS wouldn't > even deliver it, I had to go get it from the regional distribution centre. > > The machine was barely worth the $100 I offered for it, adding on $250 for > shipping really sort of soured me on the whole deal. > > The machine is pretty much just a standard AT-sized box, although it's a > bit heavier due to sturdier construction. The 19" colour monitor weighs > about 120 pounds. (and doesn't even give a good picture!) > > ok > r. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 12:53:45 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <199807170749.DAA18817@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 17, 98 03:47:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/ee84f384/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:11:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Valve robots, was How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807170612.XAA08921@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 16, 98 11:12:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1646 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/52e7a589/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:16:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806179006.AA900691316@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 17, 98 08:59:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/137654e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:27:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:21 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Julian Richardson" at Jul 17, 98 10:28:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2471 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/4ffd5517/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:33:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Jul 17, 98 09:56:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1719 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/582a1a13/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:35:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Valve robots, was How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980717142810.22530.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 17, 98 07:28:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/2524406c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 13:49:21 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <19980717143944.19264.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 17, 98 07:39:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980717/ed0bd117/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 17 17:19:05 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4D3@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > 1) if you take the front panel off, tape the plastic sandwich with the > film for the front panel logo so it doesn't come apart. Also, tape the > allen head screws on so they don't come out. This is real handy when > the time comes to reassemble. You will discover you need 4 hands to do > it: one to hold panel, one to position screws, one to hold spacers in > back, one to tighten screws. The trick I used was to put all of the screws and spacers in the front-panel first. Gravity will keep the whole mess together while you align it with the chassis. Then you only need one hand for the panel, and one to tighten the screws :-) > 2) DISCONNECT THE FRONT PANEL AC SWITCH!!! Put an on/off power switch > in the back, use a hole next to the fan (most back plates had one. > Don't run the AC power through the front panel. Why not? I powered-up through the front panel, but with the front-panel removed from the backplane. > 5) Check the +8, +/-16, and GND pins on the bus connectors before > powering up, make sure nothing's shorted. I found the power supply wasn't very well regulated, so you might see higher voltages without a load. Which pins on the S-100 bus correspond to those volatages? I just checked the mobo terminals, one of which was unlabeled. > Jack Peacock > Using IMSAIs since 1975 -- Doug Using IMSAIs since 1998 :-) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 17:26:32 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <19980717222632.22286.qmail@hotmail.com> The reason is that if the cord runs through the whole IMSAI, a problem can cause a whole lot more damage. Also, if there is a problem with insulation, you are a lot more likely to electrocute yourself by touching a switch in the front than in the back. >Why not? I powered-up through the front panel, but with the >front-panel removed from the backplane. >-- Doug >Using IMSAIs since 1998 :-) > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ecloud at goodnet.com Fri Jul 17 17:38:46 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: from "Julian Richardson" at Jul 17, 98 10:18:06 am Message-ID: <199807172238.PAA22865@goodnet.com> > So can any of you recommend a good book on how transputers work in a > broad sense? I occasionally have the urge to take all the old PC system > boards lying around and construct some form of transputer system - ok, > so it's impractical, would be a lot of work, and wouldn't be of any > benefit at all, but it would be an interesting exercise :) > > (so I'm crazy... just seems a shame that I've got various system boards > lying around unused that can't be made into complete machines and are of > no use to anyone else...) If they are 386 or better you could put Ethernet in all of them and build a Beowulf cluster. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * VRML * emusic * Java * alternative energy * Gravis Ultrasound * 808 State * From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 17:41:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... References: Message-ID: <35AFD333.6B2EB7B7@bbtel.com> Don't know how they are but I can guess - has anyone tried puuting the screws in, then the spacers, then putting a C or E ring on the screw as a keeper to make it a captive screw and spacer? Doug Yowza wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > > 1) if you take the front panel off, tape the plastic sandwich with the > > film for the front panel logo so it doesn't come apart. Also, tape the > > allen head screws on so they don't come out. This is real handy when > > the time comes to reassemble. You will discover you need 4 hands to do > > it: one to hold panel, one to position screws, one to hold spacers in > > back, one to tighten screws. From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 17 17:45:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard References: Message-ID: <35AFD40C.69882EF@bbtel.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Are you sure it's a BNC connector? All the ones I've seen have an SO239 (what > > > we call an UHF connector) here. > > > > > My terminology is undoubtably wrong. I went thru my old Electro Sonic > > catalogue and it is listed as an Amphenol 83 series UHF RF connector. It has > > threads as opposed to the BNC horizontal pin. > > It's also considerably larger. Yes, that's the connector I meant. It's a > standard composite video output. The BNC is short for BayoNet Connector, meaning it's like some of the old snap on bayonets. That's the purpose of the pins on the sides of the chassis mounted (male??) side. SO239 and PL238 are used mostly for communications like CB and amateur radio, and other apps. I don't think I've ever seen one on a network cable. Twinax looks similar on the outsde but it has a double center conductor. From peacock at simconv.com Fri Jul 17 17:58:15 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4D4@mail.simconv.com> Not so easy, you would have to grind down the back spacers so the front panel stayed in alignment with the bus slot. Just adding the ring would push the panel card forward. Jack >Don't know how they are but I can guess - has anyone tried puuting the screws in, then the spacers, then putting a C or E ring on the screw as a keeper to make it a captive screw and spacer? From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 17 18:29:30 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <199807172329.AA19097@world.std.com> < 2) DISCONNECT THE FRONT PANEL AC SWITCH!!! Put an on/off power switch < in the back, use a hole next to the fan (most back plates had one. < Don't run the AC power through the front panel. This one applies to Altair8800s BIGTIME and any others that has mains ac near logic. The designers that did that should be made to stand in a puddle and work on it! Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 17 18:46:08 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... In-Reply-To: <199807172024.QAA06434@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an > undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're > shipping it to me here in Boston. > > Thanks to those on the list who gave me pointers on how to find one. > > Now I gotta order replacement switches for the front panel (Tony heads > to his web browser) Try Jim Willing's web page: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw He sells the paddle switches among other things. I just got a handful from him. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 17 19:01:25 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Oh, they can work. You may need to get a 2uF capacitor. You also will not > be BT approved, and hence (technically) breaking the law, unless like me, > you do these experiments on a home-made line not connected to the public > system. Making such a line (a few relays) is not hard if all you want to > do is play with the units, rather than use them for answering your phone. That's what's funny about the phone companies in the UK versus those in the US. I could plug my phone line into a 240v outlet and the phone company couldn't do a damn thing about it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 19:11:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 17, 98 05:01:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/6c894e9e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 17 19:15:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <35AFD40C.69882EF@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 17, 98 05:45:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/c0e5579d/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Fri Jul 17 19:47:57 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > The BNC is short for BayoNet Connector, meaning it's like some of the old snap on > > Entire articles have been written on the name of the BNC (and the related > TNC) connector. > > I believe that the 'N' and 'C' stand for the names of the designers - > it's Bayonet Neil Concelman or something like that. TNC is the threaded > version, screw lock. The origin of the name 'BNC' is unclear. There are many folk etymologies and I believe the definitive word is that it doesn't necessarily stand for anything. Another popular expansion is "Bayonet Nut Connect". ok r. From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Jul 17 20:12:21 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Rebuilding Mac Portable batteries Message-ID: <00a301bdb1e9$3afd0a40$42b9fea9@mainoffice> After a little research, I figured out how to rebuild a MacPortable battery pack for about 1/3 the cost of buying one on the resale market (I've seen prices between $60 and $75 per battery). Anyway, the pack is rated at 6v/5ah, and contains three, 2v/5ah Gates Cyclon "X" cells. The X cells are two sizes above the conventional D battery. Gates no longer makes these batteries, having gotten out of the battery business. Hawker Energy Products (http://www.hepi.com) now makes these cells. These are available from Battery Specialties (1-800-854-5759) for $7.24 each ($21.72 total). Opening the battery case is also easy. The pack top is ultrasonically welded to the bottom case, but if you score the top plastic in the groove where it meets the bottom case, and then bang it with a small slot-headed screwdriver and a hammer, you can open it easily. Replace the internal cells with the new ones, observing all polarity markings and ensuring that all insulating plastic and foam pieces are replaced. You can then seal it with plastic welding cement such as X7. The only problem that I can see is creating the bars that join the cells. I'll probably use 12g copper wire in stead of bus bars. Now all I need is the batteries... Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Jul 17 20:36:11 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Atari 1040 ST Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980717213604.0069a06c@netpath.net> Looking for a good source of info, parts, specs, etc. for the Atari 1040 ST. Haven't found much yet out in netspace. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 20:39:06 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: sources Message-ID: <19980718013906.27634.qmail@hotmail.com> I live in Union County NJ. Are there any good old computer sources around here??? Mike ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net Fri Jul 17 21:01:55 1998 From: tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net (tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available Message-ID: <199807180201.WAA19454@web04.globecomm.net> Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . They are all 300 DPI grayscale images - in other words, huge! The parts list alone (Page 1) should be immensely helpful for those wishing to create their own DIGI-COMP. Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me over the past few days! Tom -- This account is used so mailing lists don't clutter up Tom's real account. If you really want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 17 21:47:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Are you sure? I thought there was US approval for phone stuff. FCC part > 68 or something. Yeah, but I was referring more towards the fact that you don't have to tell the phone company about every little thing you're doing with your line. I don't know how it is these days, but in the past you couldn't add a phone to your house in the UK without having to pay an additional charge or tax? Consumer product requirements aside, you can hook just about any contraption you want to your phone line in the US. The phone company would get suspicious and may send a technician out to investigate, but they couldn't charge you on anything if they found out you were physically messing with the line. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From gram at cnct.com Fri Jul 17 21:50:29 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: How many computers? References: <199807171943.PAA06945@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35B00D75.743F2217@cnct.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > > < > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs > > < > > < 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? > > < Do you have an online picture ? > > > > Back then SA4000, Memorex M101s were as common as the new ST506/412 > > drives. I have a M101 here operational on a CCS s100 crate big and > > like most of the 8"s clear plastc cover to watch the goings on. > > > > Allison > > > That would be cool. Unfortunately mine are in staid business black. > don't know who made them for Tandy. The 8.4 Mb drives for the Model II were (the drive unit itself) a Shugart mechanism that Tandy signed a really bad parts contract for, even worse than the ones for the (Centronics) Line Printer 1 and the (Diablo) Daisy Wheel Printer 1. The later hard disks were mostly Tandon, at least until the company caved in to the PC compatible craze. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Fri Jul 17 22:04:49 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available References: <199807180201.WAA19454@web04.globecomm.net> Message-ID: <35B010D1.90C7152E@cnct.com> tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net wrote: > > Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to > adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the > collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at > http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . They are all 300 DPI > grayscale images - in other words, huge! The parts list > alone (Page 1) should be immensely helpful for those > wishing to create their own DIGI-COMP. > > Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me over the past few > days! > > Tom > -- > > This account is used so mailing lists don't > clutter up Tom's real account. If you really > want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org Thank you sir. Though I wasn't one of those who emailed (I was away for a while, and haven't had time to go through the list traffic that piled up while I was out), I am grateful. I had a Digicomp I back in my kidhood, shortly before Star Trek started promising talking computers. I'll have another if I have to whittle the parts out of wood. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From boss at ibmhelp.com Fri Jul 17 22:22:51 1998 From: boss at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: <199807161826.OAA07522@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:26:10 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > In a message Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian wrote: > > > > Could you give an example where we may have seen a QIC36 or QIC02 tape? It > > doesn't ring a bell here. > > > > The tapes are DC300, DC450, DC600, DC6150, DC6250, DC6350 etc. > They've been used in everything from Sun and other Unix workstations > through PDP's to early PC/XT's. > > Common manufacturers were Archive, Techmar, Tandberg. > QIC-36 and QIC-02 were the interface standards for the > drives. QIC-36 and QIC-02 drives often could interchange tapes. > The difference was the amount of smarts in the controller vs. the > tape drive (I seem to remember). If I'm not mistaken, Tandberg is still cranking out the 5.25" QIC drives. I have a TDC-4100 on my desktop and it's a tank. The QIC Standards folk have a web site, which seems to be unreachable at the moment: http://www.qic.org Last time I visited, they had a nice table of QIC standard formats there. > > My PC and some workstations used QIC-36 tape drives with a QIC36-QIC02 > converter board. > > Some of these also used QIC-36 or QIC-02 to SCSI converters. > > Bill > > > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 17 23:45:10 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:22 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Are you sure? I thought there was US approval for phone stuff. FCC part > > 68 or something. > > Yeah, but I was referring more towards the fact that you don't have to > tell the phone company about every little thing you're doing with your > line. I don't know how it is these days, but in the past you couldn't add > a phone to your house in the UK without having to pay an additional charge > or tax? > > Consumer product requirements aside, you can hook just about any > contraption you want to your phone line in the US. The phone company > would get suspicious and may send a technician out to investigate, but > they couldn't charge you on anything if they found out you were physically > messing with the line. And considering that their property ends at the 'demarc' box - typically on the exterior of the house - it would seem unlikely that you would need to admit him. - don > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 18 02:01:49 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <199807180701.AAA28797@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 05:19 PM 7/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >> 5) Check the +8, +/-16, and GND pins on the bus connectors before >> powering up, make sure nothing's shorted. > >I found the power supply wasn't very well regulated, so you might see >higher voltages without a load. Which pins on the S-100 bus correspond to >those volatages? I just checked the mobo terminals, one of which was >unlabeled. Pins 1-50 on front, 51-100 on rear. Pin 1, 51 +8 Volts. Leftmost from the front, front and back. Unregulated (just filtered rectified DC from the power transformer) for the +5 volt regulators. (Usually very easy to trace or test) Pin 2, +16 Volts, unregulated. Pin 52, -16 Volts, unregulated. In my system I put fuses in these lines. Make sure the filter capacitors have bleeder resistors attached, so they will discharge without a load. Otherwise you might have problems when plugging in a card later :-(. Pin 50, 100 Ground. There were other ground lines on later cards, which you may have to check for when you start to mix cards, such as pins 20, 70, which were Unprotect, Protect in the early S-100 systems. -Dave From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 18 02:31:44 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available In-Reply-To: <199807180201.WAA19454@web04.globecomm.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net wrote: > Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to > adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the > collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at > http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . That is very cool. A little net.homework tells me there was also a digi-comp 2, which sounds even cooler: << I actually owned such a monstrosity, although it was a kit rather than a DIY project. I've forgotten the manufacturer, but the product was called the DigiComp II. It involved marbles rolling down an inclined board, wherein were mounted plastic flipflops that actually flipped (or flopped) as a marble passed them. If I remember correctly, the word size was 12 bits. I definitely remember an accumulator and an MQ register (set with non-flipping switches), so the thing could at least add and multiply. It was not, of course, stored-program, but it was a true digital computer, and binary to boot. >> Who has one?! -- Doug From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Jul 18 03:21:32 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: FW: Student asking for old DEC equipment In-Reply-To: <35AFAF01.6E42@megahits.com> References: <35AFAF01.6E42@megahits.com> Message-ID: <35b35ade.106455404@smtp.wa.jps.net> If anyone can help this fellow out, please contact him directly. -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:07:29 -0400, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>Hello everyone in DEC land. >> >> I'm a student at Eastern Connecticut State University and was wondering >>if someone out there had an old DEC workstation that they were going to >>throw out and would be willing to donate. I'd be willing to travel >>through most of New England to fetch it (CT,MA,RI,Southern VT, Part of >>NY/NJ). It would have a loving and useful home next to my SparcStation >>LX and I could finally dispose of my PC. >> >>Donald Lewis La Barre III >>iggy@megahits.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 18 03:20:49 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > And considering that their property ends at the 'demarc' box - typically > on the exterior of the house - it would seem unlikely that you would need > to admit him. You're absolutely right. I forgot that with the Telecom Reform Act of 1996, the inside wire is no longer the property of Bell but of you, the property owner. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Jul 18 07:40:12 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS Message-ID: <001701bdb24a$6b4a5700$bcb2fea9@mainoffice> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:45:11 +1 "Hans Franke" wrote: > Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an > interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in > beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? >>86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on >>a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an >>INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086 >>S100 system for runntime tests. What is a DEC 2020? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Jul 18 08:13:10 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS In-Reply-To: <001701bdb24a$6b4a5700$bcb2fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 18, 98 08:40:12 am Message-ID: <199807181313.JAA19407@shell.monmouth.com> > > On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:45:11 +1 "Hans Franke" wrote: > > > Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an > > interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was > in > > beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? > > >>86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on > >>a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an > >>INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086 > >>S100 system for runntime tests. > > What is a DEC 2020? > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > A DEC2020 is a small member of the DEC 36 bit family of mainframes. They ran the Tops-10 or Tops-20 or Tenex OS's (or modified varients of them). There was the KA-10, KI-10, KL-10 and KS-10. The 2020 was the KS-10 and was a common timesharing system for small software development departments. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 18 08:54:35 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: More finds Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980718085435.006aa09c@pop3.concentric.net> Picked a few things this week for the museum , so pleas do not ask me about selling them. If I ever get month off to check what all I have in storage I will be unloading all extras. The finds: 1) Franklin ACE2100 cpu and monitor (mono) not tested yet both were free; 2) Franklin ACE2200 cpu, monitor (mono), keyboard, Franklin joystick, and all cables, it also was free; 3) EXELTELII was a trade; 4) new IOMEGA cleaning kit for 8" media $1 at Goodwill; 5) OPENDOC video from Apple; 6) TG Products chip tester; 7)Super Expander cartridge for the C64 60 cents at Thrift; 8)Super Graphix jr by XETEC for the Commodore cost $1.60; 9)IQSuperPC Trivia Blitz cartridge A cost $1.80; 10)AppleColor RGB monitor 80 cents at thrift not tested yet; 11)some QX-10 items for free; 12) about 15 various books. That's been it so far I will be going out later today to the thrift's about 45 miles from my home and working my way stopping at any place looking interesting. Keep computing John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 09:13:34 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980718141335.9302.qmail@hotmail.com> I don't know how much truth there is in those descriptions of various boxes, but there a very frequent warnings on messing with line voltage because of what "hackers" call "gestapo". >That's what's funny about the phone companies in the UK versus those in >the US. I could plug my phone line into a 240v outlet and the phone >company couldn't do a damn thing about it. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 09:17:00 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Rebuilding Mac Portable batteries Message-ID: <19980718141700.13284.qmail@hotmail.com> You can order them with equivalent ease from Radio Shack, for about $7.75. It might end up being cheaper, since RS won't charge you shipping and handling. Of course, they might be getting it from the same source as you. > Now all I need is the batteries... > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 09:19:30 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980718141930.6458.qmail@hotmail.com> >they couldn't charge you on anything if they found out you were physically >messing with the line. Couldn't they cancel your service if they felt that their station equipment was at risk of damage? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 18 10:47:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980718141335.9302.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I don't know how much truth there is in those descriptions of various > boxes, but there a very frequent warnings on messing with line voltage > because of what "hackers" call "gestapo". That was when you could get away with free phone calls by messing with the line voltage. It doesn't apply any more today, and besides, nobody left in the phone companies after the 90s downsizing and early retirement movements knows anything. They're all a bunch of nincompoops. Some might not even know that 240v was NOT a normal line voltage. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 11:11:20 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980718161120.21023.qmail@hotmail.com> Is there anything I can do at home that will damage phone company equipment? I suspect that 240v in a telco switch is nothing pretty. >That was when you could get away with free phone calls by messing with the >line voltage. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 11:15:53 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available Message-ID: <19980718161553.24617.qmail@hotmail.com> Thankfully, I was using a T1 at the time I first looked at this page and didn't notice the size of the images. The first thing you should do is reduce them from RGB to Grayscale. I tried it and it doesn't reduce image quality at all. Also, does anyone currently own the rights to this? I would like to make an HTML and DVI version of it, which would be much easier to read, since it wouldn't involve as much horizontal scrolling. Now, some questions about the computer itself. A) How much did it cost in 1998 dollars? B) Was there ever a DIGI-COMP II? C) What type of plastic was used in it? D) Has anyone tried to make one? E) How popular was it? F) What year was it terminated? Basically, a brief history. >Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to >adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the >collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at >http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . They are all 300 DPI >grayscale images - in other words, huge! The parts list >alone (Page 1) should be immensely helpful for those >wishing to create their own DIGI-COMP. > >Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me over the past few >days! > >Tom >-- > >This account is used so mailing lists don't >clutter up Tom's real account. If you really >want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 18 11:42:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807181642.AA07762@world.std.com> < >they couldn't charge you on anything if they found out you were < physically messing with the line. HERE IN THE USA: If you violate the NI (bell parlance for network interface) which is the demarcation line to your home or business and damage their equipment you will likely be at the end of both criminal and civil charges. The key issues would be if the cause is deliberate, neglegence or accidental. They do actively persue this as deliberate tampering with their business as both a public safety issue and interfering with their conducting business in an unlawful manner (mischeif, vandalism). I would bet in Europe there are certain actions available as well. The oddity of it all is if you fry the phone line who really looses? Your out the use of the phone and their interface equipment is likely protected as they have to worry about power distibution lines and lightining getting into their stuff. The damage would be more to the user than TPC (the phone company). Allison From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 18 11:53:31 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: new additions: mac128 Message-ID: <30dc0328.35b0d30c@aol.com> i've got just about every compact mac model made except for a 128. while selling some things at a radio rally today, i came across a guy who said he had a complete working one for sale. turns out this guy even works in the same facility i do! here's what i got for $10 imagewriter // in original box. mac128 in its original box with manuals and system disks. also has keyboard and mouse in their boxes also along with the purchase list and other literature. machine is dirty and will have to be disassembled and cleaned. one thing he told me is that it has some sort of scsi upgrade. the battery door has been replaced with a db25 connector so im not sure if it has a genuine 128 board in there. nonetheless, i will keep it in its current modified status because the upgrade it's had is almost as "rare" as the machine itself. i also have a lead on another guy that has about 30 compact macs in several designs: 512, plus,se and probably some more 128 models which i might also get. for some reason, i couldnt sell all the plus and 512k models i had... From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 18 05:20:27 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 16, 19:28) References: Message-ID: <9807181120.ZM13179@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 16, 19:28, Tony Duell wrote: > > I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a > > Graduate, so I'll ask him today. > > Please do. I've got the Z-80 host ROM (and know of a few more if this one is > dead), but I don't have any other Torch ROMs. My friend reports that the Graduate doesn't have a BBC ROM, and indeed doesn't use the Tube. It uses the 1MHz bus to access BBC I/O, apparently. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 18 12:53:15 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980718161120.21023.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Is there anything I can do at home that will damage phone company > equipment? I suspect that 240v in a telco switch is nothing pretty. Probably not. They have line filtering and fuses and such. You'd probably just burn-out your inside wiring and all the wire from your house to the junction box. You might do some damage to the junction box, but it would most likely stop there. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 18 12:56:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807181642.AA07762@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > The oddity of it all is if you fry the phone line who really looses? > Your out the use of the phone and their interface equipment is likely > protected as they have to worry about power distibution lines and > lightining getting into their stuff. The damage would be more to the user > than TPC (the phone company). I wasn't advocating destroying phone company equipment, nor really even suggesting it. I was just pointing at that in the US, the telcos have far less ability to control how many phones you have the house than in other parts of the world. Anyway, point taken. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From poesie at geocities.com Fri Jul 17 21:09:04 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available References: <199807180201.WAA19454@web04.globecomm.net> Message-ID: <35B003B4.27DD@geocities.com> Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom! thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou time for me to get out the acrylic and start cutting... -Eric again, thanks for the scans tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net wrote: > > Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to > adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the > collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at > http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . They are all 300 DPI > grayscale images - in other words, huge! The parts list > alone (Page 1) should be immensely helpful for those > wishing to create their own DIGI-COMP. > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Jul 18 13:33:21 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: C'mon guys - somebody has to know these things! Message-ID: <35b4e930.226354540@hoser> A bit ago, I posted a request to help identify some old front-panels that have been in my collection for about 20 years. I didn't get a single response! With all of the wise guys (sorry - smart folks ;-) in this group, I'm disappointed! Somebody has to recognize them! Allison? Anyone? Anyone? (The pictures are on my web page at http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r. Just click on the "Classic Computers" link, then "Unidentified Technological Artifacts".) Your help would be appreciated? -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 13:44:00 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980718184400.14583.qmail@hotmail.com> > I was just pointing at that in the US, the telcos have far >less ability to control how many phones you have the house than in other >parts of the world. > >Anyway, point taken. > Is there any reason for a telco to worry about the number of phones in a house besides for purely financial concerns? Of course, if you have 100 phones all plugged in, it's possible there won't be enough power for all of them, and certainly not enough to make them all ring. I believe the FCC controls stuff about the amount of power a phone can use for ringing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 13:47:33 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: C'mon guys - somebody has to know these things! Message-ID: <19980718184733.17932.qmail@hotmail.com> Do those panels have any circuitry in the back? Switches that are stamped with the date? Could you make pictures of the back as well? >A bit ago, I posted a request to help identify some old front-panels >that have been in my collection for about 20 years. I didn't get a >single response! With all of the wise guys (sorry - smart folks ;-) >in this group, I'm disappointed! Somebody has to recognize them! >Allison? Anyone? Anyone? (The pictures are on my web page at >http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r. Just click on the "Classic >Computers" link, then "Unidentified Technological Artifacts".) Your >help would be appreciated? > > > -Bill Richman > bill_r@inetnebr.com > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 18 13:52:10 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions now available In-Reply-To: <19980718161553.24617.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 18, 98 09:15:53 am Message-ID: <199807181852.OAA06376@user2.infinet.com> > > Thankfully, I was using a T1 at the time I first looked at this page and > didn't notice the size of the images. I printed out page 1. It brought my SPARC5 w/128Mb to its knees for several minutes. I did get a good print out of an HP LJ4Si, though. > The first thing you should do is reduce them from RGB to Grayscale. Good advice. Also, it's lots of work, but using Photoshop to clean up the page where there _isn't_ any writing might look a little bizarre (unless you contoured the erasing to match areas), but it will compress nicely. > I tried it and it doesn't reduce image quality at all. It won't, except for the loss caused by compressing, expanding and compressing a JPEG file. > Also, does anyone currently own the rights to this? Edmund Scientific. > I would like to make an HTML and DVI version of it, which would be > much easier to read, since it wouldn't involve as much horizontal scrolling. I didn't try to read it on the screen. I printed it. Eventually. > Now, some questions about the computer itself. > A) How much did it cost in 1998 dollars? I do not know how to scale inflation off the top of my head, but I think it cost $5.95 in 1969. > B) Was there ever a DIGI-COMP II? I have heard of one, but not seen one. > C) What type of plastic was used in it? White polystyrene, IIRC, like that used in model airplanes, approx .75mm thick. > D) Has anyone tried to make one? No, but I've manufactured missing wire parts for one. It's harder than it sounds. It would have been easier if I'd had a bending jig, not pliers. > E) How popular was it? Boy... unless you mean exact numbers sold, I wouldn't know how to answer that one. In any case, I don't know how many were made. > F) What year was it terminated? 1969? -ethan From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 18 14:15:55 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807181915.MAA14226@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I picked up a PDP-8, 8L, 11/20, and a bunch of accessories this week. That PDP-8 is one cool looking computer. Of interest in the lot was a "high speed paper tape reader" and quite a bit of tape. The tape, one inch thick, looks to be of incredibly low density. Just how much does this stuff hold? More questions to come as I learn more about the PDP's. Thanks in advance. Tom Owad P.S. I'm looking for an inexpensive Mac Classic or SE, 4/40 configuration, w/kb & mouse. Anybody? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 18 12:38:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 17, 98 07:47:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/d0bdb107/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 18 16:53:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807181120.ZM13179@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 18, 98 10:20:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/4f2528db/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 18 16:56:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <199807181915.MAA14226@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Jul 18, 98 12:15:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 583 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/ec73f4ca/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 18 17:21:31 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807182221.PAA09515@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Standard paper tape stores 10 characters/inch. Each row of holes across >the tape is an 8-bit character, with a small 'sprocket' hole which is >either used to drag the tape through the reader, or to provide a strobe >pulse. Is that enough to actually do some decent stuff with the PDP-8. >A full reel of tape was 1000' I think. That's about 100K of data (to give >an order of magnitude). A full box of fanfold tape would be about the same. I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it? How does it compare to the paper tape? Thanks. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Jul 18 17:35:18 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS In-Reply-To: <001701bdb24a$6b4a5700$bcb2fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <13372736454.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [What's a 2020?] KS-10. It's a PDP-10. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Jul 18 17:37:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Re-compiling old DOS In-Reply-To: <199807181313.JAA19407@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <13372736808.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [2020 ran TOPS, tenex....] ITS too! ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Jul 18 17:52:17 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: C'mon guys - somebody has to know these things! In-Reply-To: <19980718184733.17932.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13372739544.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Identify panels?] They're shaped like the PDP-1 panels... ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 18 18:13:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <199807182221.PAA09515@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Jul 18, 98 03:21:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 965 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980719/ef81a083/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Sat Jul 18 18:48:30 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <199807182221.PAA09515@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Jul 18, 98 03:21:31 pm Message-ID: <199807182348.QAA02862@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 787 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980718/42cd6d08/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 18 19:36:06 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: new additions: mac128 In-Reply-To: <30dc0328.35b0d30c@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980718193606.09b74740@intellistar.net> Dave, A friend of mine called me today and told me that he stopped at a garage sale and that they had some kind of large Apple laptop computer for sale. The owner claimed it was some sort of prototype and was asking $100 for it. Do this sound like anything that you're interested in? Joe At 12:53 PM 7/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >i've got just about every compact mac model made except for a 128. while >selling some things at a radio rally today, i came across a guy who said he >had a complete working one for sale. turns out this guy even works in the same >facility i do! here's what i got for $10 >imagewriter // in original box. >mac128 in its original box with manuals and system disks. also has keyboard >and mouse in their boxes also along with the purchase list and other >literature. machine is dirty and will have to be disassembled and cleaned. one >thing he told me is that it has some sort of scsi upgrade. the battery door >has been replaced with a db25 connector so im not sure if it has a genuine 128 >board in there. nonetheless, i will keep it in its current modified status >because the upgrade it's had is almost as "rare" as the machine itself. i also >have a lead on another guy that has about 30 compact macs in several designs: >512, plus,se and probably some more 128 models which i might also get. for >some reason, i couldnt sell all the plus and 512k models i had... > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 18 21:30:15 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980718184400.14583.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Is there any reason for a telco to worry about the number of phones in a > house besides for purely financial concerns? Of course, if you have 100 > phones all plugged in, it's possible there won't be enough power for all > of them, and certainly not enough to make them all ring. I believe the > FCC controls stuff about the amount of power a phone can use for > ringing. Bingo. It's the amount of current the telco has to provide to ring all your phones. If there are too many phones on the line (especially the old style phones, referred to as 2500 sets for their model number) then the ringers could possibly draw too much current, or may not all be able to ring due to the number of phones. With today's electronic ringers however, its less of an issue. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 18 22:40:51 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: new additions: mac128 Message-ID: <1b96c9a.35b16ac7@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-18 21:53:03 EDT, you write: << A friend of mine called me today and told me that he stopped at a garage sale and that they had some kind of large Apple laptop computer for sale. The owner claimed it was some sort of prototype and was asking $100 for it. Do this sound like anything that you're interested in? >> i dunno. ive heard that "its a prototype" line before so unless they have incontrovertible evidence, they are probably lying. it's probably just a mac portable. i'll pass. From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 19 01:14:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Seiko S-500 In-Reply-To: <1b96c9a.35b16ac7@aol.com> Message-ID: Has anybody heard of the Seiko S-500? Intel mentions it in one of their ads (from March 1973) as a desktop computer based on the 8008. It has an integrated display, keyboard, mag card reader, and printer, and probably predates the Micral and Scelbi. They also mention the Omni 2700 from Omni Electronics as a micro-based "general-purpose data processing machine", but it's not clear if it's based on the 4004 or 8008. BTW, Intel was clearly using the term "micro computer" before March 1973. I've seen elsewhere where it was said to have been first used to describe the Micral. -- Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 18 21:20:41 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35B00D75.743F2217@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199807190623.CAA02713@smtp.interlog.com> > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > > > > > < > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs > > > < > > > < 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? > > > < Do you have an online picture ? > > > > > > Back then SA4000, Memorex M101s were as common as the new ST506/412 > > > drives. I have a M101 here operational on a CCS s100 crate big and > > > like most of the 8"s clear plastc cover to watch the goings on. > > > > > > Allison > > > > > That would be cool. Unfortunately mine are in staid business black. > > don't know who made them for Tandy. > > The 8.4 Mb drives for the Model II were (the drive unit itself) a > Shugart mechanism that Tandy signed a really bad parts contract for, > even worse than the ones for the (Centronics) Line Printer 1 and the > (Diablo) Daisy Wheel Printer 1. The later hard disks were mostly > Tandon, at least until the company caved in to the PC compatible > craze. > -- > Ward Griffiths Do you know whether Shugart also supplied the FDD s ? If so they were a vast improvement in size as compared to the Phillips Shugart I have which is about the same size as the Model II HDDs. Comparing those to my little Syquest is a time-jolt. BTW I am in contact with a chap who has the specs and did the conversion to 5 1/4 floppies and seems to have alot of invaluable material on these beasts. He mainly uses a model 16 and 6000 now. I took the liberty of forwarding his info message to me, on to you and will be informing him of that. I'm sure he won't mind. ciao larry. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 18 21:20:38 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Atari 1040 ST In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980717213604.0069a06c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <199807190623.CAA02716@smtp.interlog.com> > Looking for a good source of info, parts, specs, etc. for the Atari 1040 > ST. Haven't found much yet out in netspace. > There's a ream of info out there, including my own private archives. There's at least 2 separate faqs and the 2 ST newsgroups. Just do a search for Atari. Best Electronics has an immense inventory, a large catalogue for around $10 IIRC , as well as tech manuals. There are also many other dealers.Altho Toad no longer supports Atari on the east coast , there's another (Systems for Tomorrow ?) Check out the Atari Qiuck-FAQ. I also have a list of Atari suppliers in Britian. In Germany there's a multitude. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Jul 19 02:45:08 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Updated Commodore PET and P500 Pages References: <199807190702.AAA11261@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35B1A404.13875826@goldrush.com> Those of you interested I have been doing some updating to my Commodore pages. Let me see if I can give you a list: * Added a better 'original PET' graphic to the PET page (Yeah Doug, that picture does look awfully familiar, hope you don't mind..) * Added a picture of my Pet Rock (as a link in the PET page) * Added to the PET FAQ two sub-pages on PET BASIC (one small, one REALLY BIG) both are adapted from the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference text from Project 64 with changes/additions to be PET specific. also a nother question or two * Started a Commdore 8-bit Troubleshooting Guide (stuff like don't put things to close or to the left of monitors, etc) I have a couple 64 and 1541 fixer charts I plan to add someday too. * P500 Page has all new pics! (with close-up of the back panel) much re-wording (also found a pic of an Ultimax to add) Unfortunately my QuickCam can't do a screen-shot, the monitor refresh through the camera is too messy. * Did a bit of work on the BBS history, still have to add a link over to the CBBS North West page (4th BBS in the U.S!)... If any of that sounds interesting, click on the link below and check it out. (BTW I know the long PET BASIC page 4.0 command portion is incomplete, I got lazy, what can I say.) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Jul 19 03:30:35 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 Help Message-ID: Hello List-ites.... I have a question for the non-RT11-impaired among us: I am attempting (sporadically) to get an 11/34a back in it's original shape, when it ran a Hollywood audio company's accounting and sales functions. It had two RK05s and several software packages running under MACRO, Unix, and USCD pSystem Pascal. Right now only one of the drives is hooked up, set to drive '0'. It will boot and run the UCSD stuff and it will boot RT-11(V2.0).... except that, in 7 out of the 7 packs with RT-11.... it is as if KMON was missing or damaged; it boots up to the dot prompt and then returns the ?ILL? message no matter which command I give it. I have RT-11(V5.0) on my 11/73 and it is fully functional, so I have had some cursory (N.P.I.) experience with the OS. I am at another one of those self-teaching impasses.. I can't do much more with the system the way it is... sigh. Has anyone any ideas? Magic words? Mystery switches? Or should I just chuck this wretched humiliating heavy loud time-consuming suppossed-to-be-a-fun-toy..... sorry. Time for my meds again. I'm fine now... quite calm actually. help. Cheers..... John PS: Anyone found a junk Kennedy 9300 tape machine whose vacuum column door is in good shape... I *need* one real bad.... J From gram at cnct.com Sun Jul 19 06:21:05 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Tandy TRS80-Model II References: <199807190623.CAA02703@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35B1D6A0.DC5A9049@cnct.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > To clearify, a Model II requires an additional CPU card. This is a MC68000 CPU > with a daughter card or two that may contain from 128K to 1 Meg of RAM. It > depends. There were several memory card configurations. I have some from > the 128K to the 1 Meg varity. The really rare ones are the 4 Meg memory cards. There was never a Tandy 4 Meg card. Bob Snapp had boards to take a 16 or 6000 up to 8 Meg, but the memory management permitted only a max of 1 Meg "user" RAM -- the rest could be used as RAM disk, permitting a /dev/swap far larger and faster than Tandy hardware. It was damned impressive to see his stuff at the Tangent conference in Fort Worth in 1986, 15 terminals (plus console) filePro databases faster than a stock system could with three users. > In addtion, You should have a HD controller. This card will have the WD1010 > or WD1020 chipset. It will allow you to attach up to 2 MFM drives. The > standard MFM cabling has one "Control" cable that is dasiy-chained to all > drives. Then the smaller "Data" cable is connected directly from the HD to > the drive controler card. I have not see a controler card that was able > to use more than two HDs at a time. All the Tandy manufactured card would > use the WD1010 chipset which allows up to 70Mb HDs. Some after-market > people upgraded to the WD1020 chipset which increased the HD capacity to > the 130 ro 150Mb range. I dont remember the exact upper limit although > they did not make MFM drives much larger that 150 Mb as I recall. All the > HDs should be free standing. Only a possiable drive select jummper should > differ the HDs in the external cases. Actually, except for the 6000HD which would only accept one external drive after the internal, all hard disk subsystems for the Model II/12/16/6000 line would permit four external drives, either all 8.4 Meg (the 8" Shugart "original" system) or any combination of 5, 12, 15, 35 or 70 MB (the later 5.25" system). At least that was the case with official Tandy hard drives.Those latter would also attach in quantities up to four to any of the Model One/3/4 product line or the Color Computer. That's what always surprised me when PCs and compatibles were limited to two drives, at least until SCSI and EIDE. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From bwit at pobox.com Sun Jul 19 07:13:06 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: MSDOS 6.x Message-ID: <01BDB2E4.F9D1B640@ppp-151-164-50-31.rcsntx.swbell.net> I ran across a consignment store that has a large supply of shrink-wrapped MSDOS 6.x they are selling for $1 each. Probably be about $5 including postage. Please let me know if anyone is interested. Regards, Bob From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Jul 19 07:41:58 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Looking for 2 magazine articles Message-ID: <000901bdb312$bc288fc0$559cfea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: While going through the old Popular Electronics magazines that I recently got, I found two article series that I would like to have complete, but I'm missing two issues...bummer. Does anyone have the following and would be willing to mail me a copy: 1. Popular Electronics, March 1977, Part 3 of the "Build the Cosmac Elf" construction article. 2. Popular Electronics, November, 1981, Part 3 of the "Designing with the 8080 uP" article. I'd be more than happy to reimburse for copying/postage. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From mbg at world.std.com Sun Jul 19 08:11:04 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 Help Message-ID: <199807191311.AA22572@world.std.com> > Right now only one of the drives is hooked up, set to drive '0'. >It will boot and run the UCSD stuff and it will boot RT-11(V2.0).... >except that, in 7 out of the 7 packs with RT-11.... it is as if KMON >was missing or damaged; it boots up to the dot prompt and then >returns the ?ILL? message no matter which command I give it. I have >RT-11(V5.0) on my 11/73 and it is fully functional, so I have had >some cursory (N.P.I.) experience with the OS. Ah... you're playing with an RT-11 which didn't have DCL... there are no quick shortcuts to accomplish things. To get a directory of your disk: R PIP *RK0:/L *^C There is no 'HELP' command... each utility has to be run explicitly. There is no BUP, DUP, DIR... the functions that were split out into DUP and DIR are still in PIP... Back when I first used V2... I wrote what I called a supplementary command scanner which was invoked if KMON couldn't otherwise identify the command. So I had a sort of CCL way back in 1976 or so (when I was at WPI). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer (1978-1992) User of RT-11 since 1975 +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Jul 19 08:14:44 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Recompilong old DOS Message-ID: <007a01bdb31a$ad8f1940$559cfea9@mainoffice> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 05:54:31 -0800 (PDT), Tim Shoppa wrote: >It's probably not too far off target. The original QDOS was certainly >developed on a S-100 CP/M-80 system - Tim Paterson's articles in _BYTE_ >make this much obvious - but most Microsoft products >of the era were cross-compiled from one of several DEC minicomputers >that Microsoft owned or "leased" time on. I know that most of their early >Macintosh products were developed on a TOPS-10 system, in particular. >I would guess that after they bought QDOS, Microsoft moved development >to a TOPS-10 platform. >Tim. Do you have copies of those articles handy? I'd really like to get copies of them. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 19 09:01:47 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807191401.HAA13433@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >> >A full reel of tape was 1000' I think. That's about 100K of data (to give >> >an order of magnitude). A full box of fanfold tape would be about the same. >> >> I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it? >> How does it compare to the paper tape? > >Are these little reels about 4" in diameter of 3/4" magnetic tape? If so, >they're the original DECtapes. That sounds right. In fact, the readers are even labeled "DECtape55"s. How much do these hold? What is used to 'punch' the paper tape? My reader certainly doesn't look like it's capable. Thanks. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 19 07:04:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 Help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jul 19, 98 01:30:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980719/176e5bb9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 19 07:07:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Sirius sound chips Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 507 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980719/c462a89b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 19 09:07:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <199807191401.HAA13433@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Jul 19, 98 07:01:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1143 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980719/7a521075/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 19 09:31:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807191431.AA27524@world.std.com> < >Standard paper tape stores 10 characters/inch. Each row of holes across < >the tape is an 8-bit character, with a small 'sprocket' hole which is < >either used to drag the tape through the reader, or to provide a strobe < >pulse. < < Is that enough to actually do some decent stuff with the PDP-8. Humph, PC mentality... Back beofre Gates could stand there were computers and programmers programmed such that tens of kilobyte requirements for OSs were inconceiveable as being bloated. Considering the basic PDP-8 has 4k 12 bit words. Yes. < I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it? < How does it compare to the paper tape? There are two things, mylar tape (does not decay around oils) and if the tapes have a 4" hub and say dectape then it's a old low cost magtape. Allison From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Sun Jul 19 11:42:34 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980719164234.11670.qmail@hotmail.com> Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth?? Mike Sheflin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 19 12:25:36 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980719164234.11670.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Michael Sheflin wrote: > Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A > Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth?? That's not terribly amazing. Its basically a Compaq 286 portable. Probably from around the 1986 or 1987 timeframe. What did you pay for it? That's what its worth (to you). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Jul 19 13:00:56 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:23 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late > > Nice!. I've got n Microway Monoputer, Inmos B008 (with a load of TRAMs) > and a B020 graphics card here. Is this the same Microway that used to make Flicker Fixer boards for Amigas? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 19 13:37:36 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (1LT Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: PT68K-2 Boards References: <34DC9375.27D7@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <35B23CF0.424E@konnections.com> Hey all: I'm looking for a generic 68k SBC, Mustang 68K or PT68K/PT68K-2 board. Trying to get into SKDOS programming but I wanted to do some evaluations before I invest in a new board. If you have a board or a system you'd like to sell, contact me direct at; mallison@konnections.com I may still have some MAC Plus or 512k systems to trade/partial trade but I'd have to check the heap. Thanks a bunch -Mike From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 19 13:34:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807191834.AA06576@world.std.com> > That sounds right. In fact, the readers are even labeled < > "DECtape55"s. How much do these hold? Around 185-230k 12bit words depending on how formatted. 1464 blocks of 128 words, randomly block addressable with an index. Another scheme used 129 word blocks with over 1400 available. It was low cost disk like and moderatly fast storage. One tape could hold a complete OS and utilities along with a language. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 19 13:35:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > Nice!. I've got n Microway Monoputer, Inmos B008 (with a load of TRAMs) > > and a B020 graphics card here. > > Is this the same Microway that used to make Flicker Fixer boards for > Amigas? I don't remember that product, but it's the same Microway that has been making number-cruncher stuff for quite a while: http://www.microway.com BTW, I gave my Amiga 1000 to a friend about 10 years ago, and just yesterday I decided to re-acquire one (in original box, with all docs, no less). I'm trying to decide how to position this in my museum. The first waaay-cool computer? -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Jul 19 13:39:35 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807161916.PAA09613@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: OK, possibly the last entry in this thread. (Hey, I've been too busy to keep up with this list!) This won't include peripherals, game systems, books, etc, just the computers: 1 Amiga 1000 1 Amiga 1200 (not classic) 1 Amiga 3000 (will be classic in 2 years) 1 Apple //e 1 Apple //c 1 Microcom ][+ (Apple ][+ clone) (currently ill, but functioning) 1 Apple /// (makes loud disturbing noises but works) 1 Macintosh 512K 2 Atari 800XL (one has a broken TAB key) 1 TRS-80 Model 1 1 TRS-80 Color Computer 1 TRS-80 Color Computer 2 1 Tandy Color Computer 3 1 Tandy 1000EX 3 Commodore 64 (only one works!) 3 Commodore VIC-20 1 Commodore PET 2001-8K 1 Kaypro 2 1 Kaypro II 1 TeleVideo TPC-1 1 TI-99/4A 1 VTL Laser 3000 1 Wang PC-002 (but no monitor) 1 AMA LCD Portable (luggable '286 box with LCD screen) 1 Dynalogic Hyperion -- = 30 computers, of which only two are completely non-functional (and both of those are C64s). Also in the house, but not belonging to me: 1 PET 2001-8K, quite ill (I think there's a cracked solder joint or possibly a fractured trace on the MB) 1 C64 (busted) 1 '486 system in an old AT clone case, with 20MB HD and Hercules. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 19 13:48:00 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (1LT Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: OS-2 FS Message-ID: <35B23F5F.7231@konnections.com> I can't find who was originally asking to locate some copies of OS/2. I just pulled down a copy of Warp (requires Windows already installed). The software comprises 2 floppies to install and 1 CD with the OS/2 v3 system and a "bonus" CD with IBM Works, Online access and 'more'. The CDs are still shrink wrapped. I can't verify that it's original but I know that where I picked them up would have no reason to re-wrap them. I have no burning desire to let these go but if the people who originally asked, or anyone else, REALLY needs it, I'll send them for 6.00 (six bucks) plus shipping. Unfortunately for everyone, I ran OS/2 v3 for a while when it came out. It turned a marginal machine into a hummer on the internet. It was probably an excellent OS, just not too popular. Please contact me direct at: mallison@konnections.com Thanks, Mike From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Jul 19 13:44:53 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Pertec tape interface for PC Message-ID: <35B23EA5.E7F58E5A@halcyon.com> I picked up a nice, small, 9-track tape drive made by Qualstar for use with IBM PCs. The fellow I got it from said he had the ISA adapter and software and manuals "somewhere in a box". Of course, he can't find them, and it's the adapter and software that I'm really after, since Pertec-interface 9-track drives are fairly common. (I'd like to think this isn't the old "promise the important stuff to have someone haul away the big stuff" ploy, but it's happened to me several times now!) Pehaps someone out there has one, or knows the whereabouts of an ISA Pertec adapter, probably made by Qualstar, Chi Corporation, or Overland Data. Software and docs to go with it are almost mandatory, and anything that runs under DOS/Windows or any flavor of PC Unix is OK. Thanks, Dave From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Jul 19 13:45:59 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: RT-11 Thanks Message-ID: Muchas Gracias to Allison and Megan and Tony (O My!) for your help with RT-11... the machine is running as I type this, and displaying a directory... all entries no later than 1979... just about the time I was spending long nights trying to figure out the Cromemco Z2H that I had pieced together... all I had was the monitor and 16K of RAM.. so I never shut it off for weeks... and a GE Terminet for a console, so at the end of a session the room was swimming in roll paper covered with hex.... Now to get the 2nd RK05 running.... THEN to figure out how to make the RL02s peacefully co-exist in the system... THEN to install one of my old classic modems, and write to my list friends from the DEC system.... THEN.... But first things first. Thanks again!! Cheers John From gram at cnct.com Sun Jul 19 14:02:55 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required References: Message-ID: <35B242DE.8E06BD13@cnct.com> Doug Spence wrote: > > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late > > > > Nice!. I've got n Microway Monoputer, Inmos B008 (with a load of TRAMs) > > and a B020 graphics card here. > > Is this the same Microway that used to make Flicker Fixer boards for > Amigas? Yes. It's the same Microway that was the best source for Intel math coprocessors who are now a serious vendor of DEC Alpha CPU-based systems for Linux hackers -- I want one. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 19 15:13:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980719201313.3677.qmail@hotmail.com> I also want to brag that I got a Compaq Lite-25 486. This is not a classic, and I am about to go to Compaq's site to research it. A question: does anyone know what their power connector pinout is? It's a weird little three-pin thing like the compaq monitor power interface. Does anyone have plugs or know where to get them? >That's not terribly amazing. > >Its basically a Compaq 286 portable. Probably from around the 1986 or >1987 timeframe. > >What did you pay for it? That's what its worth (to you). > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Jul 19 15:36:40 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Looking for 2 magazine articles Message-ID: <199807192036.NAA00199@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Richard and all At 08:41 AM 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > While going through the old Popular Electronics magazines that I >recently got, I found two article series that I would like to have complete, >but I'm missing two issues...bummer. > > Does anyone have the following and would be willing to mail me a copy: > > 1. Popular Electronics, March 1977, Part 3 of the "Build the >Cosmac Elf" construction article. > I have this one, it is 5 pages. The memory used is 8 2102 ram's. Don't have the first 2, August, 1976 or September 1976, however. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Jul 19 15:36:43 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Sirius sound chips Message-ID: <199807192036.NAA00219@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Tony and all, At 01:07 PM 7/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >Greetings... > >I'm got a partially faultly Sirius (aka Victor 9000?) on the bench at the >moment, and it appears to have (at least) a sound fault. > >Alas there are 2 chips in the sound circuitry that I can't find any data >on : > >Harris CI55516-9 (16 pin DIL, maybe a codec or similar) >Spague (?) ULN3701Z (5 pin TO220, audio amplifier). > Pin 1. audio input.(+) Pin 2. Feedback.(-) Pin 3. ground Pin 4. out Pin 5. Vcc Uses the same circuit as National LM 383. -Dave From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 19 15:42:34 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: mitsubishi laptop Message-ID: i did some bartering a while back and got a mitsubishi 286 laptop circa 1987 i think. it boots up to some post errors which i can get past by hitting F1. it's a phoenix bios, and i've tried every key combination thats's known to access the cmos setup, all to no avail. it appears to have a hard drive, but am unable to access it. i've web searched everywhere, but cannot find any support contact for this machine. i ended up round filing a mitsubishi 386dx machine last year because i couldnt find any info on it. i didnt even get any replies in comp.sys.laptops about this laptop. help anyone? david From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Sun Jul 19 15:55:59 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: mitsubishi laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try control - Alt - insert AFTER booting a dos diskette... George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > i did some bartering a while back and got a mitsubishi 286 laptop circa 1987 i > think. it boots up to some post errors which i can get past by hitting F1. > it's a phoenix bios, and i've tried every key combination thats's known to > access the cmos setup, all to no avail. it appears to have a hard drive, but > am unable to access it. i've web searched everywhere, but cannot find any > support contact for this machine. i ended up round filing a mitsubishi 386dx > machine last year because i couldnt find any info on it. i didnt even get any > replies in comp.sys.laptops about this laptop. help anyone? > > david > From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 19 16:06:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980719201313.3677.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I also want to brag that I got a Compaq Lite-25 486. Bragging about Compaqs -- that's an interesting concept. Kind of like being proud of pimples. > question: does anyone know what their power connector pinout is? It's > a weird little three-pin thing like the compaq monitor power > interface. Does anyone have plugs or know where to get them? Compaq is the leader in three areas of portable design: the world's most fragile portables, the world's least ergonomic portables, and the world's weirdest and largest variety of proprietary power connectors. The power adapter is pretty hard to find, compared to finding a thrown-away LTE Lite. I've never seen the connector available as a standard part. You can also power the thing from the proprietary bus connector, so you might have an easier time finding a cheap docking station to power/charge than finding/making an A/C adatper. Another alternative is a cool briefcase made for insurance adjusters that was custom designed for the LTE Lite, and has an A/C plug in the briefcase. You can get them for around $30 from Halted: http://www.halted.com/ BTW, I need the flex cable that connects to the display of an LTE Lite. I'll trade a battery for one. -- Doug From erd at infinet.com Sun Jul 19 16:29:37 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Looking for 2 magazine articles In-Reply-To: <199807192036.NAA00199@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 19, 98 01:36:40 pm Message-ID: <199807192129.RAA15413@user2.infinet.com> > Hi Richard and all > At 08:41 AM 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, all: > > > > While going through the old Popular Electronics magazines that I > >recently got, I found two article series that I would like to have complete, > >but I'm missing two issues...bummer. > > > > Does anyone have the following and would be willing to mail me a copy: > > > > 1. Popular Electronics, March 1977, Part 3 of the "Build the > >Cosmac Elf" construction article. > > > I have this one, it is 5 pages. The memory used is 8 2102 ram's. > Don't have the first 2, August, 1976 or September 1976, however. I have them all! I have scanned in the 5th article (out of 4 ;-) from the Popular Electronics 1978 yearbook. I've OCRed the text and will be working on reducing the schematics to something reasonable to download. The other articles will follow. Someone (Richard?) recently aske me about them. I would have answered earlier, but I just shifted to 12 hour days, 6 days a week for July (at least I get overtime!). I'll be putting things up as I can, time permitting. -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 19 17:43:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Sirius sound chips In-Reply-To: <199807192036.NAA00219@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 19, 98 01:36:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 636 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980719/e795fc36/attachment.ksh From wcox at infinet.com Sun Jul 19 21:18:27 1998 From: wcox at infinet.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980719221827.00704974@infinet.com> Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an individual. I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a good home and was refered here. -Wayne Cox wcox@infinet.com, wcox@usaeroteam.com From danjo at xnet.com Sun Jul 19 21:40:21 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980719221827.00704974@infinet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an > individual. This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again. And stand back for about 50+ messages a day ranging from Z1 to the - well latest thing (frowned on but never ignored 8-) > I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a > good home and was refered here. Interesting thought - I mean IS there such a thing as an - 'antiquated DEC equipment' I thought not 8-) Your ISP is out of Ohio... Is that where the equipment is? A list of what is available and where would help out a lot. > -Wayne Cox > wcox@infinet.com, wcox@usaeroteam.com Once again - Welcome! BC ========================================================================= Name: Classic Computer Rescue List URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html (Collectors by areas) Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...) Name: Classic Computer ListOp URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?) From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Jul 19 21:38:50 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: <199807161916.PAA09613@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: >OK, possibly the last entry in this thread. (Hey, I've been too busy to >keep up with this list!) Nope, I'm even slower at getting around to doing things... Here's what I have: Apple IIe Apple IIgs Laser 128 Mac PowerBook Duo 270c Mac 128K, 512K and Plus parts and at least two working CPU's Mac IIvx Mac II PowerMac 6500/250 Mac LC Mac SE IBM PS/2 Model 80 IBM PS/2 Model 50Z(and two spare CPU's with no RAM or drives) IBM 5150 PC IBM 5160 PC-XT IBM Series/1(and two terminals) IBM 3191 terminal About a dozen Wyse WY-99GT terminals DEC VT-220 terminal MicroTerm(?) Ergo 301(I think, maybe a different model. I can't remember) Epson PX-8 CP/M laptop Zenith Supersport 286 laptop Zenith MasterSport 386SL laptop Apollo DN3500 two Apple LaserWriters, one is broken IBM 4019 LaserPrinter with dead power supply Unknown Intel SBC-86 based MultiBus system TI Silent 700 787 portable terminal(no screen, just a keyboard printer and modem) Compaq Dekspro 386/20 Compaq Deskpro 386s Compaq Portable Apple Newton MP120 w/OS 1.3 Telic Alcatel, French video terminal TI-99/4A And I sorely miss the PC Brand A3000 486-33 I sold a while back(swappable CPU module via MCA slot!!)... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From hansp at digiweb.com Sun Jul 19 22:06:18 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? References: <3.0.1.32.19980719221827.00704974@infinet.com> Message-ID: <35B2B42A.17DC2163@digiweb.com> Wayne Cox wrote: > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an > individual. I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a > good home and was refered here. Well you are certainly in the right place. Please post details of what you have available and where it is located. _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From william at ans.net Sun Jul 19 22:04:26 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In defense of the big iron... IBM 5100 & 5103 S/1 RS/6000 PowerServer 930/T3B (from Illinois) RS/6000 PowerStation 320H SGI IRIS 2500T Sun SPARCstation 370 SPARCstation ELC 3/280 or 4/280 (depending on which CPU I throw in) 3/50 3/60 Interdata 14 DEC PDP-8/S PDP-8/E LINC-8 (gutted) PDP-11/23 (never used!) PDP-11/34 VAX-11/730 VAXstation 2000 DG Nova 4 Eclipse S/230 HP 2100A Coming down the road... SGI 4D/380 (two) CDC Cyber 910 (not a real Cyber, a real one may be coming, however) Not really mine anymore, but I still have... Spheres (lots, at least one of everything they made, I think) SWTPC 6800 Motorola Exorcisor (this lot is going to RCS/RI, so Allison can play with it) William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Jul 19 22:37:19 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: SoCal TRW Swapmeet Message-ID: A heads-up for any Southern CA GearHeads.. the TRW Swapmeet is this Saturday, the 25th, at the TRW El Segundo facility, from 7:30 am til 11:30 am. (Every month, always the *last* saturday) I have made many happy recoveries there over the years, including the $50 IMSAI 8080 / 4 8" drives/ tons o' software that I scored a few months back... and Marvin's Rockwell AIM with FORTH in PROM... as well as loads of electronic and radio-related Stuff. Anyone wishing more info, e-mail me direct... also it might be an Amusing Idea to have a bit of a get-together afterward... maybe? Just a (not original) thought... I have two permanent Selling Spaces... Items are cheerfully accepted for sale by you (unless they're bigger than my truck...) as long as I get Rights of First Refusal on yer jun^H^H^H merchandise. Cheers John From wcox at infinet.com Sun Jul 19 22:50:29 1998 From: wcox at infinet.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: subscription info, dec equipment Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980719235029.006c4104@infinet.com> Wow... those were some really quick responses, thanks! The gear I'm looking to unload is a PDP 11/35 and a VAX 750, both in the Dayton, Ohio area. Fairly big stuff to move if you're familiar with. I hate to barge in on a mailing list and ask newbie questions; But if anyone could point me to, or provide info on subscribing, FAQs, etc I'd appreciate it ! Me?? - - A 30ish hack, teeth cut on PDPs and Apples in the late 70's. Why is my 45000000MHz windoze machine so @!#$ slow ?!?!? -Wayne From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 19 23:06:11 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980719164234.11670.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Michael Sheflin wrote: > Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A > Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth?? Usually, something less than what you paid for it :) - don From erd at infinet.com Sun Jul 19 23:11:19 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: subscription info, dec equipment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980719235029.006c4104@infinet.com> from "Wayne Cox" at Jul 19, 98 11:50:29 pm Message-ID: <199807200411.AAA19241@user2.infinet.com> > > Wow... those were some really quick responses, thanks! > > The gear I'm looking to unload is a PDP 11/35 and a VAX 750, both in the > Dayton, Ohio area. Fairly big stuff to move if you're familiar with. I'm in Columbus. Can I help? I've already got a 750, so if someone else wants it, I'll defer. I do not have an 11/35. > Me?? - - A 30ish hack, teeth cut on PDPs and Apples in the late 70's. Why > is my 45000000MHz windoze machine so @!#$ slow ?!?!? The question is obvious to the educated reader. ;-) _Most_ WinDoze users aren't well educated enough to know why things suck so bad. On the other hand, DEC never would have given us 8Gb of disk for under $300. Let me know if I can help, or if I'm too late. -ethan From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Jul 20 01:41:30 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4CE@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old > (ancient) rotary dial telephones. > > Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home. > It's not so ancient, anyway, it's worked for the last 30 years, probably > good for another 30. The bell is disconnected so it doesn't ring, an > excellent feature. > Jack Peacock > Uhhh... I still use a rotary dial telephone, with extremely loud clanger. Not in my room, but the household's main phone is one 'o those. It's the only 'public' one in the house, all the other ones sit in someone's bedroom. I still like that phone, but the ring really gives me a jolt sometimes. And yes, I am under 30, but my parents most definitely aren't. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 20 03:55:51 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: FWD: Adam Rescue in NC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: DO NOT REPLY TO ME! << Shirley Kuhn says: I have a Coleco Adam Computer that I would like to get rid of. If you are looking for one, please contact me. >> From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Jul 20 04:14:32 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: >> Just want to brag, like the rest of you about this weeks' find. A >> Compaq SLT 286!! Anyone know anything about it, how much it's worth?? hmm, was there sarcasm buried in there or not? :) I've got one of those things somewhere... weighs about five tons and the battery lasts for about five minutes. Still, they were pretty well built machines, had mono VGA screens, the one I've got has a 42MB hard drive in it (which I suppose was pretty damn good for a laptop of that time). not really worth anything now (seem to remember they were over 4000 UK pounds when new - isn't depreciation great? ;) but you may find a use for it... (I suppose it has some nostalgia value for me - it was my first exposure to the world of PCs... I remember the hard drive on mine had been partitioned into two, and I spent months marvelling at a whole 12MB of space before I found the other 30MB ;*) cheers Jules > From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 20 09:48:46 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807201234.OAA01704@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>OK, possibly the last entry in this thread. (Hey, I've been too busy to >>keep up with this list!) > Nope, I'm even slower at getting around to doing things... :) Not slower, courious before sending myself, but now: Meeeeeeeeeeeee toooooooooooooooooo: Computer: KIM PC 100 (OEM AIM 65 from SIEMENS) PET (small and big Keyboard) CBM 2001 CBM 3016 (and several 40xx and 80xx) CBM SK 8296 CBM SK 8296D CBM 610 CBM 720 Commodore B500 (and some printers and floppies) VC-20 C64 (more than 10 - never counted) C64-II (C64C) C64G (and some 1541, 1570,1571 floppies) C128 C16 C116 Plus 4 Amiga 500 Amiga 1000 Amiga 2000 ITT MP-Experimerter SC/MP II EUROCOM I APPLE ][euro+ APPLE //c APPLE /// Lisa 2 Macintosh 128K Macintosh IIsi Macintosh LC II Macintosh Performa 630 DOS Basis 108 Ohio Superboard II TRS 80 Mod I Lv2 & Expansion TRS 80 Mod III & Hard Disk TRS 80 Model 4 Video-Genie EG2002 Colour Genie Olivetti M10 IBM-PC IBM-PC/XT Clone (And about 5 or 6 modern clones) SIRIUS 1 OSBORNE 1DQD Philips P2000C Pascal Microengine ATARI 400 (German and US) ATARI 800 (German and US) ATARI 600XL ATARI 800XL ATARI ST 520+ ATARI 1040 ST E ORIC 1 ORIC ATMOS Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Sinclair ZX Spectrum+ Sinclair Z88 Sinclair QL Your Computer (8300) Laser 50 Laser 2000 Dragon 32 Dragon 64 BBC Computer Yashica YC-64 (MSX I) Sony HiBit (MSX I) Philips VG8010/00 (MSX) S100-Bus Systems (several CPUs and so on) Eltec 80 SANYO MB 1000 Sharp MZ80A Sharp MZ80B Sharp MZ80K Sharp MZ811 Sharp MZ821 SWTP 6800 Motorola MEK6802D5 EXORterm (...), sowie ca. 15 weitere 6800, 6802 & 6809 Boards, ENTERPRISE 128 TA Alphatronic TA Alphatronic PC TA Walkstation 286 Superbrain HP 9121 Tatung TCS-4000 SIEMENS Mikroset 8080 SIEMENS 5521 SIEMENS PC 16-10 SIEMENS PC-D SIEMENS PC-MX (9780) SIEMENS PC-MX2 SIEMENS WS30-435(Apollo) SIEMENS PCD-3T SIEMENS PCD-4T SIEMENS PCD-4G 486er Clone Pentium. Terminals: TI Silent 700 TI Silent 709 Whisper Reader Mod 1951 SIEMENS 97801 (gruen && weis) EECO D400 Heazeltine 1000 (and several other) Taschenrechner: Newton OMP (OS 1.3 upgraded) Newton 120 (OS 1.3) Newton MP2000 Ti 74S SHARP PC 1211 SHARP PC 1241 SHARP PC 1250 SHARP PC 1251 SHARP PC 1261 SHARP PC 1430 SHARP PC 1500A sowie 14 nicht-Basic Taschenrechner. Videogames: ATARI XE ATARI Jaguar ATARI Lynx ATARI VCS ATARI VCS 2600 Philips G7000 MEMO TEST (and several early '80s junk :) Maybe sone are missing ... I never did a listing :( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 20 08:03:19 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: <199807162210.PAA27632@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807201306.NAA07729@cyber2.servtech.com> At 15:10 16-07-98 -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: >> Aha! Now I can connect QIC36/QIC02.... My HP 250 uses DC600 type tape carts. > >Don't be too sure of that. If it's a 9144 drive or one integrated in DC600 carts are the _physical_ media on which data is stored. I wasn't saying DC600 is a format nor was QICxx a format HP uses (never knew what protocol HP used 'til you mentioned HCD a bit later in yr msg.) >a 79xx disc drive, it uses tapes that are mechanically the same but >with a completely different format called HCD that predates the QIC >formats and cannot be completely recorded in the field. THe format >involves full-width block markers that can't be recorded by the heads >in the drives. Now I know what format the HP250 records its tapes under. Thanks for the added tidbit of info to my very meager amount I have on the 250. :-) I never got much of anything as far as technical tech data with the 250, just the small OS/BASIC command reference handbook (which is very important just to run the thing while lacking any other operations manuals.) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 20 10:10:11 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <6859@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807201314.IAA14222@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 04:06 PM 7/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> I also want to brag that I got a Compaq Lite-25 486. > >Bragging about Compaqs -- that's an interesting concept. Kind of like >being proud of pimples. > >> question: does anyone know what their power connector pinout is? It's >> a weird little three-pin thing like the compaq monitor power >> interface. Does anyone have plugs or know where to get them? > >Compaq is the leader in three areas of portable design: the world's most >fragile portables, the world's least ergonomic portables, and the world's >weirdest and largest variety of proprietary power connectors. > You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried to open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble. Jeff From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Jul 20 08:46:22 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... Message-ID: <199807201406.KAA22971@charity.harvard.net> > Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > > Well... I finally found one, I ordered a used Imsai 8080 from an > > undisclosed place in CA (they had one on consignment) and they're > > shipping it to me here in Boston. > > Not even gonna guess what shipping is cross country for that > heavy of a > machine. Does it work did they say? > Shipping was only $71, the guy is even foam packing it. I guess I can confess and say it's coming from Weird Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale. This is an as-is sale but I'm sure if it doesn't work, I can fix it :) Tony From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 09:27:58 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980720142758.9022.qmail@hotmail.com> Remember that Compaq is the first PC clone maker and the first portable PC maker ever. I think that's not bad. >Bragging about Compaqs -- that's an interesting concept. Kind of like >being proud of pimples. > I doubt any of that is true. I mean, sure, they're not GRiDs, and I don't think this one is unergonomic. The power connector bit, I'll have to agree with. Unfortunatley, the docking station was being sold for more than the portable. But, hey! You use one too! Hipocrite ;) >Compaq is the leader in three areas of portable design: the world's most >fragile portables, the world's least ergonomic portables, and the world's >weirdest and largest variety of proprietary power connectors. > >The power adapter is pretty hard to find, compared to finding a >thrown-away LTE Lite. I've never seen the connector available as a >standard part. You can also power the thing from the proprietary bus >connector, so you might have an easier time finding a cheap docking >station to power/charge than finding/making an A/C adatper. > >Another alternative is a cool briefcase made for insurance adjusters that >was custom designed for the LTE Lite, and has an A/C plug in the >briefcase. You can get them for around $30 from Halted: > http://www.halted.com/ > >BTW, I need the flex cable that connects to the display of an LTE Lite. >I'll trade a battery for one. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 09:37:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980720143712.22892.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry about the blanks, folks, Lynx doesn't let me delete them. This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips drivers to turn those Torx screws!!! >You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried to >open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble. > >Jeff > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 13:08:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980720180832.4231.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry to continue, but I don't currently have newsgroup access and I have serached on the newsgroups for my problem via Dejanews. I decided to attempt to recharge my battery using a PC power supply. Will this work? The battery is labelled to be 12V, 1.7 Ahr. It's a NiCd. The power supply is 12V 6Ah. I'm doing it now, but I'm wondering how long I should leave it, or should I not have done it at all. Also, can I power the laptop with 6ah directly from the PSU though the battery is rated at 1.7 without frying it? No more questions about this from me. Thanks. P.S. does anyone know why this laptop has three batteries? THe main one that I was talking about above, a little black 2.7v NiCd like on a PC, and a round flat one like in a watch, only bigger. What's this last one for? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Jul 20 14:18:54 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 19, 98 09:06:11 pm Message-ID: <9807201818.AA20111@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/88591a53/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 19 06:12:32 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 18, 22:53) References: Message-ID: <9807191212.ZM13926@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 18, 22:53, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > My friend reports that the Graduate doesn't have a BBC ROM, and indeed > > doesn't use the Tube. It uses the 1MHz bus to access BBC I/O, apparently. > > You know, I thought I remembered it having a 34 pin ribbon cable. (1MHz > bus, not Tube).... Time to dig it out and experiment. > > How on earth does the Beeb know it's there, though, without a ROM. > Acorn's MOS (the Beeb ROM OS) doesn't look for peripherals on the 1MHz > bus, surely?. I can't believe it needed a BBC disk as well... Yes, I find that very odd too. The address lines, page selects, and R/W signals on the 1MHz bus are unidirectional (direction: out of Beeb) so about the only things the Graduate could control would be the NMI, IRQ, and analogue input lines. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 12:45:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980720143712.22892.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 20, 98 07:37:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/9f48a840/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 20 14:36:03 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <9807201818.AA20111@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Of course, some will claim that the media folks inside DEC saw > the merger over a decade in advance when they started writing > "Compactape" on all the TK50 carts they sold... Pity they couldn't spell, Tim. - don From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 20 14:36:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980720142758.9022.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Remember that Compaq is the first PC clone maker and the first > portable PC maker ever. I think that's not bad. The first company to clone a PC from the schematics IBM gave in the tech ref? You don't even need to reverse engineer to do that. However, I need a clarification from my fellow quasi-historians. Which of the following was the first PC clone/portable? Compaq Cordata Hyperion (extra credit for release dates) > I doubt any of that is true. I mean, sure, they're not GRiDs, and I > don't think this one is unergonomic. The power connector bit, I'll I have seen more broken hinges on Compaqs than any other machine. In fact, I challenge anybody to find a used Compaq Concerto that doesn't have broken hinges. There's a thriving third-party industry in Compaq Portable repair. As a result of this, it's fairly easy to find replacement parts for them (but often at high prices). As far as ergonomics go, I give you 10 minutes of trying to use that screen-mounted track ball before you throw the machine across the room. > have to agree with. Unfortunatley, the docking station was being sold > for more than the portable. But, hey! You use one too! Hipocrite ;) I use Compaqs to practice my repair technique. I got a couple of them recently in which the hinges had become degreased and stiff, so the owners broke the displays off trying to use their laptops. I haven't found a good replacement for the hinges yet, but re-greasing and reinforcing the hinges with metal plates gives me working 486 laptops at around $10 each. I put them to work as dedicated controllers and linux servers since their power consumption is lower than an old desktop. -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Jul 20 14:45:08 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <199807201945.MAA00787@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 11:08 AM 7/20/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Sorry to continue, but I don't currently have newsgroup access and >I have serached on the newsgroups for my problem via Dejanews. >I decided to attempt to recharge my battery using a PC power supply. >Will this work? The battery is labelled to be 12V, 1.7 Ahr. It's a >NiCd. The power supply is 12V 6Ah. The power supply is probably rated at 6A, not 6Ah. 6 amps charging would be too much for an 1.7Amp hour battery and would greatly shorten its life. 200 or 300 mA would be much better. However, charging a 12 Volt battery off a 12 Volt regulated power supply most likely will not completely charge it, as the float charging voltage is closer to 13.5 volts. You need something designed as a charger to get the full capacity from the battery. -Dave From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 20 14:50:33 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) References: <19980720180832.4231.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35B39F88.6287@gamewood.net> Max Eskin wrote: > > Sorry to continue, but I don't currently have newsgroup access and > I have serached on the newsgroups for my problem via Dejanews. > I decided to attempt to recharge my battery using a PC power supply. > Will this work? The battery is labelled to be 12V, 1.7 Ahr. It's a > NiCd. The power supply is 12V 6Ah. I'm doing it now, but I'm wondering > how long I should leave it, or should I not have done it at all. > Also, can I power the laptop with 6ah directly from the PSU though > the battery is rated at 1.7 without frying it? > No more questions about this from me. Thanks. > P.S. does anyone know why this laptop has three batteries? THe main > one that I was talking about above, a little black 2.7v NiCd like on > a PC, and a round flat one like in a watch, only bigger. What's this > last one for? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Hi Max: The little round 'coin' sized one, is the 'CMOS' backup battery. That's the culprit, when your system loses it's mind, and cand find the 'hard disk (before that happens, you _may_ notice that the DATE & TIME go bonkers)'. The 2.7v NiCad, is probably additioonal CMOS backup. I can't think of anything else, but someone with specific knowledge could 'chime in'. The 'main' NiCad, shouldn't be charged at more than 1700ma, for 10 Hrs. If the 'float voltage of the battery goes over the 12v figure, that will cut down the charging current. The _best_ thing would be a milliammeter on the PS output, and a variac controlling input of the _big_ PS. Now, as to whether or not you can get away with the 'big PS' on the laptop instead of the battery? If at all possible, don't try. The battery is providing an imense ammount of conditioning to the incoming power flow. (There are amazing ammounts of garbage floating on top of the normal PS output. [everything from 'lightning induced spikes, on down to spikes from the local refrigerator turning on].) If you _must_ try, it won't hurt to throw a few thousand mfd of capacitor across things. Voltage wise, you are probably O.K. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 15:00:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980720200010.20082.qmail@hotmail.com> These hinges are metal, and there's no pointing device of any sort. Do you know the pinout of the power connector or not? > >I have seen more broken hinges on Compaqs than any other machine. In >fact, I challenge anybody to find a used Compaq Concerto that doesn't have >broken hinges. There's a thriving third-party industry in Compaq Portable >repair. As a result of this, it's fairly easy to find replacement parts >for them (but often at high prices). > >As far as ergonomics go, I give you 10 minutes of trying to use that >screen-mounted track ball before you throw the machine across the room. > >> have to agree with. Unfortunatley, the docking station was being sold >> for more than the portable. But, hey! You use one too! Hipocrite ;) > >I use Compaqs to practice my repair technique. I got a couple of them >recently in which the hinges had become degreased and stiff, so the owners >broke the displays off trying to use their laptops. I haven't found a >good replacement for the hinges yet, but re-greasing and reinforcing the >hinges with metal plates gives me working 486 laptops at around $10 each. >I put them to work as dedicated controllers and linux servers since their >power consumption is lower than an old desktop. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From buck_c at polygon.com Mon Jul 20 15:04:52 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Need info on classic iron. Message-ID: <35B3A2E3.8C61E929@polygon.com> A friend of mine has two systems that he needs to find info on. 1. Symbolics 3650 - this system boots into a wierd LISP command prompt, but complains durring boot about not being able to find the rest of the "world." Any info to help admin the thing would be groovy. 2. Fortune 32:16, formerly running ForPro. Unfortunately, the boot drive crashed. He has tapes, floppies, but no HD (I think) - is this worthy to be kept? Any help will be appreciated. I might end up adding these systems to my collection, right next to my 7 VAX systems. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 15:08:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980720200817.26181.qmail@hotmail.com> Ok, one more question. This may seem dumb to you electronics experts, but when charging, should I attach the positive terminal of the AC adapter to the positive or to the negative terminal of the battery? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From amichael at nortel.ca Mon Jul 20 15:35:00 1998 From: amichael at nortel.ca (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard Message-ID: <199807202038.NAA25074@mxu1.u.washington.edu> In message "VC404 The Standard", lwalker@mail.interlog.com writes: > One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company >based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a >title VC404 The Standard. I also have a 404, discarded from a university lab many years ago. These terminals seem to have been popular in university student terminal rooms because they were relatively cheap. I seem to recall that the company founders were ex-University of Waterloo people. I've seen 404s not just in Canada but also in Britain, where they were the standard terminals on a university Vax system I once used. So I'm not too surprised Tony has a tech manual. (Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Tony had a tech manual for Noah's Ark :) >It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable Unfortunately the keyboards were not that robust and after a few generations of students pounding away on them, the keyboard or the ribbon cable often became unreliable. >In the back it >has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches : >one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off" That video connector on the back was useful for hooking into a big classroom overhead monitor so a whole class could learn from observing a terminal session. These terminals are very helpful for debugging RS-232 communications. The "transparent" switch on the back lets you choose to display all the ASCII control codes (eg, instead of performing a "line feed" it displays a little LF symbol). Larry, I don't have any tech docs but I do have a thin user manual. About all it tells you is what the special control codes are to clear the screen, move the cursor, etc. Still, it's the information you need to run Wordstar with it! E-mail me with your snail-mail address and I'll run off a copy for you. Regards, Arlen -- Arlen Michaels Nortel Ottawa, Canada (613) 763-2568 amichael@nortel.ca From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 20 17:59:25 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Need info on classic iron. In-Reply-To: <6901@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807202104.QAA16713@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 03:04 PM 7/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >2. Fortune 32:16, formerly running ForPro. Unfortunately, the boot drive crashed. He has tapes, >floppies, but no HD (I think) - is this worthy to be kept? The fortune 32:16 was one cool machine; it was way ahead for its time, so naturally, scarcely anyone bought them :-( From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 20 16:53:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Thanks to the list... In-Reply-To: <199807201406.KAA22971@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > I guess I can confess and say it's coming from Weird Stuff Warehouse in > Sunnyvale. You probably could have gotten a better deal at IMSAIs-R-Us in Mountain View. They've got factory refurb's for $79 and a special on toggle switches this week. (just doing my part to maintain the Silicon Valley legend :-) -- Doug From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon Jul 20 17:08:02 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: <199807202208.SAA12993@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Okay, I just dug through my bookshelf, and found a 1986 inmos databook. Chapter 5 is "Transputer Products", and includes the following: Selection Guide (1 page) IMS T414 Transputer (16 pages) IMS T212 Transputer (12 pages) IMS C001 Link Adaptor (4 pages) IMS C002 Link Adaptor (4 pages) IMS B001 Evaluation Board (4 pages) IMS B002 Evaluation Board (4 pages) IMS B004 Evaluation Board (4 pages) IMS D100 Development Station (4 pages) IMS D600 Development System VAX/VMS (4 pages) IMS D700 Development System IBM PC (4 pages) OCCAM (2 pages) Let me know if you need info from this, and if it is urgent. Cheers, Bill. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 14:39:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980720180832.4231.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 20, 98 11:08:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1735 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/8c3efed2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 14:45:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:24 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807191212.ZM13926@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 19, 98 11:12:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/78733537/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 14:41:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <9807201818.AA20111@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Jul 20, 98 11:18:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 266 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/b2be752a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 17:41:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <199807202038.NAA25074@mxu1.u.washington.edu> from "Arlen Michaels" at Jul 20, 98 04:35:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1809 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/c336a873/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 17:33:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <35B39F88.6287@gamewood.net> from "Charles A Davis" at Jul 20, 98 03:50:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/3bd5864d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 20 17:35:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980720200817.26181.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 20, 98 01:08:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 372 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980720/03137ffa/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Mon Jul 20 19:57:27 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: Message-ID: <35B3E777.D4AEC3F2@cnct.com> Doug Spence wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > > > Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old > > (ancient) rotary dial telephones. > > > > Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home. > > It's not so ancient, anyway, it's worked for the last 30 years, probably > > good for another 30. The bell is disconnected so it doesn't ring, an > > excellent feature. > Uhhh... I still use a rotary dial telephone, with extremely loud clanger. > Not in my room, but the household's main phone is one 'o those. It's the > only 'public' one in the house, all the other ones sit in someone's > bedroom. > > I still like that phone, but the ring really gives me a jolt sometimes. > > And yes, I am under 30, but my parents most definitely aren't. :) One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers is that they can't be killed, they can only be landfilled at a crossroad with a stake through the bell. Rumour has it that that after World War III the cockroaches will be able to use them to call Elvis. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Mon Jul 20 20:18:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Need info on classic iron. References: <199807202104.QAA16713@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <35B3EC61.F1D15185@cnct.com> Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > At 03:04 PM 7/20/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >2. Fortune 32:16, formerly running ForPro. Unfortunately, the boot drive > crashed. He has tapes, > >floppies, but no HD (I think) - is this worthy to be kept? > > The fortune 32:16 was one cool machine; it was way ahead for its time, > so naturally, scarcely anyone bought them :-( Aside from the graphics, it didn't have much to offer over the Tandy Xenix systems, and Tandy easily beat it in price and support. It was a lot _prettier_ than the Model 16 or Tandy 6000. > There is the usual laundry list of languages and accounting apps for this, > including, believe it or not-- Microsoft Multiplan! A definite keeper, > especially if you can get one of those 14" drives! Multiplan was available for _lots_ of Unix systems, starting with Tandy Xenix. I've used it a lot on the AT&T Unix PC. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From ThisTime at aol.com Mon Jul 20 20:24:25 1998 From: ThisTime at aol.com (ThisTime@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: Puh-leeze! With humour that consistently bad, let me make a suggestion. 86 the pathetic attempts at humour. Keep on topic without trying to be cute all the time. Ghia In a message dated 98-07-20 21:14:48 EDT, you write: << One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers is that they can't be killed, they can only be landfilled at a crossroad with a stake through the bell. Rumour has it that that after World War III the cockroaches will be able to use them to call Elvis. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ >> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 20:38:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980721013805.12118.qmail@hotmail.com> The thing powers up off the keyboard, like a mac. I tried powering it off a PC SMPSU, otherwise loaded by the PC from which it came. The PSU was working fine, and I got correct voltages, even the right voltages on the external power connector on the laptop (I connected the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas? >Surely you mean 170mA here. It's normal to charge at the C/10 rate, at >least when trickle charging. And I'd give it about 14 hours to make up >for losses in the battery (you never get the energy out that you put in). > >> If the 'float voltage of the battery goes over the 12v figure, that will >> cut down the charging current. The _best_ thing would be a milliammeter >> on the PS output, and a variac controlling input of the _big_ PS. > >Wait a second. I thought he was using a PC power supply. Those have >internal regulation. Hanging one off a Variac won't do a darn thing apart >from test the line regulation of the PSU. > >> >> Now, as to whether or not you can get away with the 'big PS' on the >> laptop instead of the battery? If at all possible, don't try. The >> battery is providing an imense ammount of conditioning to the incoming >> power flow. (There are amazing ammounts of garbage floating on top of >> the normal PS output. [everything from 'lightning induced spikes, on > >Every regulated power supply that I have ever seen has a fair amount of >internal filtering. Now while it's not a good idea to only load one of >the subsiduary outputs of an SMPS (and remember that in a PC PSU, the 5V >output is the main one, from which the regualtor sense lines are taken), >I think that noise on the output would be the least of your worries. > >> down to spikes from the local refrigerator turning on].) If you _must_ >> try, it won't hurt to throw a few thousand mfd of capacitor across >> things. Voltage wise, you are probably O.K. > >There's probably 2200-4700uF inside the PSU across the 12V rail. > >> >> Chuck > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Jul 20 21:06:33 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980721013805.12118.qmail@hotmail.com> from Max Eskin at "Jul 20, 98 06:38:05 pm" Message-ID: <199807210206.WAA09016@crobin.home.org> > > > The thing powers up off the keyboard, like a mac. I tried powering it > off a PC SMPSU, otherwise loaded by the PC from which it came. The > PSU was working fine, and I got correct voltages, even the right > voltages on the external power connector on the laptop (I connected > the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I > pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas? > >Surely you mean 170mA here. It's normal to charge at the C/10 rate, at > >least when trickle charging. And I'd give it about 14 hours to make up > >for losses in the battery (you never get the energy out that you put > in). COmpaq LTE lite? Check the CMOS battery... <<>> From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 21 00:37:11 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) References: <199807210206.WAA09016@crobin.home.org> Message-ID: <35B42907.FB0C1ACC@rain.org> John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > > the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I > > pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas? > > >Surely you mean 170mA here. It's normal to charge at the C/10 rate, > at > > >least when trickle charging. And I'd give it about 14 hours to make > up > > >for losses in the battery (you never get the energy out that you > put > > in). > > COmpaq LTE lite? Check the CMOS battery... I have a Compaq LTE that was given to me because it didn't work with identical symptoms. I pulled the whole thing apart and removed the system unit from the case, and *then* I saw the little CMOS cell that was dead. Spending $3.00 or so for a new Lithium battery seemed a bit steep to fix a freebee machine, but I guess someone has to do those sort of things :). From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue Jul 21 00:35:38 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <35B39F88.6287@gamewood.net> Message-ID: <199807210914.FAA30396@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:50:33 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Charles A Davis > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Compaq (off topic) > Max Eskin wrote: > > > Hi Max: Snip! And Chuck's comments on batteries snipped as well... To clearify; Main battery is charged by two types of process; charging (or rapid charging) and trickling charging. Still, the voltages and currents used to charge that main battery does changes. Example: 12V NiCd rated at 2000mAh battery pack, uses 10 cells in series. Rapid charge is around 1amp or so in order to get under 2 hours and around 2V rapid charging voltage per cell. That's why usually I see 18V power bricks paired with portables that uses 12V NiCd pack plus that said power pack also stated around 2A max or so in order to meet both rapid charging AND have some enough current left over to power a running portable. Trickling charge is around 1.3V or so per cell with controlled current to give very low current around less than 100mA or less to that pack. Norminally fully charged voltage is 1.25V per cell. Max commented on 3 batteries in a portable like this LTE Lite, That little pack with 6 cells is 7.2V standby battery pack. In certain situations for example if you wanted to swap batteries in midstride without cutting power or reboot that machine or put a computer in deep sleep, that part dips into that pack for this. Anything else ususally uses cmos battery either 3.0V lithium coin or 3.6V NiCd battery. First thing you will see problems on those CMOS battery is bad time keeping when pc is off or in deep sleep in extended time and at worst problems powering up and down or losing cmos data configuration. Both Lite and Elites uses siimple power bricks norminally 12~18V around 2A max, no sensing feedback from computer. Just like a coax plug but in Compaq's infinite wisdom used oddball 3 pin connector. Grr. Yes, I did split those power brick for that Lite and Elite when I check for solder joints, it's simple PSU no tricky extra circuits anything else besides simple PWM circuit. Charging circuits is inside that battery pack with that yellow LED indictor. Jason D. PS: For several reasons, I always split open all power bricks when I aquire anything that is portable or whatever or is tasked to repair any portables at component level work IS to check on the condition of those capacitors and solder joints condition. One of my SLT power brick died because of this by clusmy user who had no idea that PSU is not working right before me! Blown PWM IC, couple of resistors burnt to crisp and no one dropped in to tell me those two resistor values when I requested these info and power MOSFET (expansive as hell at around $15 to $20 each and hard to ge). BTW, that SLT power brick is model 2682 or 2687 but it's lighter depsite it's same size but the DC power cable is *deatachable* from power brick. Anyone have that one? If so, find 2 screws under that rubber feets and would be mucho appreciated to report on those resistor values for this R500 and R512??? They're dull green fusiable resistors in 1/4W size connected directly between that MOSFET switcher and the PWM ic. Thanks! Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:35:54 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980719221827.00704974@infinet.com> Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25433@smtp.interlog.com> > > On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer > > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an > > individual. > > This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again. > And stand back for about 50+ messages a day ranging from Z1 to the - well > latest thing (frowned on but never ignored 8-) > > > I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a > > good home and was refered here. > > Interesting thought - I mean IS there such a thing as an - > 'antiquated DEC equipment' > I thought not 8-) Your ISP is out of Ohio... Is that where the equipment > is? A list of what is available and where would help out a lot. > > > -Wayne Cox > > wcox@infinet.com, wcox@usaeroteam.com > > Once again - Welcome! > > BC > ========================================================================= > Name: Classic Computer Rescue List > URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html > (Collectors by areas) > Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page > URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ > (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...) > Name: Classic Computer ListOp > URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ > (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?) > And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp and Doug Yowza's classiccmp FAQ backup at http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp Does anyone know if haliotis is still archiving ? My machine always hangs when I try and access it. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:35:56 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <199807202038.NAA25074@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25438@smtp.interlog.com> > In message "VC404 The Standard", lwalker@mail.interlog.com writes: > > > One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company > >based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a > >title VC404 The Standard. > > I also have a 404, discarded from a university lab many years ago. > These terminals seem to have been popular in university student > terminal rooms because they were relatively cheap. I seem to recall > that the company founders were ex-University of Waterloo people. > I've seen 404s not just in Canada but also in Britain, where they were > the standard terminals on a university Vax system I once used. So I'm > not too surprised Tony has a tech manual. (Actually, I wouldn't be > surprised if Tony had a tech manual for Noah's Ark :) > Ain't it the truth . : ^ )) And likely the only person in the world with it's actual dimensions ! In cubits ! > >It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable > > Unfortunately the keyboards were not that robust and after a few > generations of students pounding away on them, the keyboard or the > ribbon cable often became unreliable. > Yeah, I chopped the cable to get rid of a length of frayed edge but it's still repeating keys. Hopefully when I replace the cable it will be stabile. > >In the back it > >has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches : > >one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off" > > That video connector on the back was useful for hooking into a big > classroom overhead monitor so a whole class could learn from observing a > terminal session. > That one really baffled me. I wonder if there were other uses or was it designed for educational purposes ? > These terminals are very helpful for debugging RS-232 communications. > The "transparent" switch on the back lets you choose to display all the > ASCII control codes (eg, instead of performing a "line feed" it displays > a little LF symbol). It gets more interesting all the time. I ran across a program on Jeff Armstrongs Rainbow 100 page (he maintains a RB FAQ) that allows you to use a terminal hooked up to a Windoze box to access the Inet. It's called STERM but needless to say I haven't tried it yet. Sounds like there might be a lot of uses for this box. > Larry, I don't have any tech docs but I do have a thin user manual. > About all it tells you is what the special control codes are to clear > the screen, move the cursor, etc. Still, it's the information you need > to run Wordstar with it! E-mail me with your snail-mail address > and I'll run off a copy for you. > > Regards, > Arlen > > -- > Arlen Michaels > Nortel > Ottawa, Canada (613) 763-2568 amichael@nortel.ca That would be great ! Will do. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:35:59 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: References: <199807202038.NAA25074@mxu1.u.washington.edu> from "Arlen Michaels" at Jul 20, 98 04:35:00 pm Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25470@smtp.interlog.com> > > >It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable > > > > Unfortunately the keyboards were not that robust and after a few > > generations of students pounding away on them, the keyboard or the > > ribbon cable often became unreliable. > > Alas the ribbon cable is soldered at the keyboard end, using one of those > staggered pin transition headers. A minor pain to replace. > Well the bottom of the connector was soldered but it was one of the old style whose name escapes me. The lid prys off and the cable is impaled on pins which have a matching indentation on the lid. I've had success repairing those before. The main care is that the cable is alligned straight . I used pliers to re-impale the cable between the top and bottom sections and lock it back into place. I remember doing it with my old Micom k-b many moons ago and was pleased that it checked out on my ohm-meter. Mind you that test could give you wrong results if you were shorting out 2 adjacent wires and there's no guaranty that the cable was alligned correctly. I have to get a new cable in any case so I wasn't very impeccable.. > > That video connector on the back was useful for hooking into a big > > classroom overhead monitor so a whole class could learn from observing a > > terminal session. > > When I got my VC414, it was faulty - no display at all. The video output > connector quickly proved that the logic boards were fine, and that the > fault was in the monitor section. A little bit of debugging later (this > was 10 years ago...), and I found that the CRT was faulty - the cathode > had broken away from its pin. Getting a new CRT was non-trivial. > > -tony > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:35:58 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: References: <19980720143712.22892.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 20, 98 07:37:12 am Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25460@smtp.interlog.com> > > This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips > > drivers to turn those Torx screws!!! > > >You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried > > to > > >open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble. > > Since when does the use of Torx screws make something difficult to > dismantle? They're a lot better than the crosspoint (Phillips, Pozidriv, > etc) screws, which almost seem to be designed to cause the driver to 'cam > out' when you try to shift them. > Amen to that. I'll take the Torx or Robertsons over the Phillips or blade for that matter any day. I used to have a bicycle shop and many times would have to drill out or cut screws that had lossed their corners. The Torx is a constant topic of discussion on the classic mac m-l , as the early Macs needed the longer Torx to open them up. It seems that the longer ones are harder to find in England according to the msgs from "over "ome" . > Dismantling is easy, anyway. It's getting it back together that's > interesting... > > -tony > Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged. It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I finally figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed THE screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyote must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:36:00 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25482@smtp.interlog.com> > Puh-leeze! With humour that consistently bad, let me make a suggestion. 86 the > pathetic attempts at humour. Keep on topic without trying to be cute all the > time. > > > Ghia > > In a message dated 98-07-20 21:14:48 EDT, you write: > > << One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers > is that they can't be killed, they can only be landfilled at a > crossroad with a stake through the bell. Rumour has it that that after > World War III the cockroaches will be able to use them to call Elvis. > -- > Ward Griffiths > They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. > Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > >> > Hmmm. Must be a refugee from comp.sys.a2 who also left when Nathan Mates stormed out recently in his usual huff. You took a wrong turn , Delphi is over thataway , just the other side of America On Line , oh great protector of the earth. Better to be cute than offensive. ciao (now that's cute) larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 02:36:01 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Tandy TRS80-Model II In-Reply-To: <35B1D6A0.DC5A9049@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199807211138.HAA25491@smtp.interlog.com> > Lawrence Walker wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Nope, wrong attribute. I can only wish that I was as knowledgeable as you and the writer on theTRS80 m.II. Hey Ward, I see you have a home page. What about hosting a Model II, m.16 6000 page. It would be the only one among a plethora of other TRS80 pages which Always have a gap in their coverage of Models 1,3,4 , CoCo !,2.3.100,200 Tandy 1000 etc.,etc. The model II orphans would bless you. You're certainly knowledgeable enough about it coming from a RS background. Tandy only has a minimal bit of stuff on it re mod.IIs and there's no other source that I've been able to find. > > To clearify, a Model II requires an additional CPU card. This is a MC68000 CPU > > with a daughter card or two that may contain from 128K to 1 Meg of RAM. It > > depends. There were several memory card configurations. I have some from > > the 128K to the 1 Meg varity. The really rare ones are the 4 Meg memory cards. > > There was never a Tandy 4 Meg card. Bob Snapp had boards to take a 16 > or 6000 up to 8 Meg, but the memory management permitted only a max of > 1 Meg "user" RAM -- the rest could be used as RAM disk, permitting a > /dev/swap far larger and faster than Tandy hardware. It was damned > impressive to see his stuff at the Tangent conference in Fort Worth in > 1986, 15 terminals (plus console) filePro databases faster than a stock > system could with three users. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 21 06:53:30 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211138.HAA25460@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 21, 98 07:35:58 am Message-ID: <199807211153.HAA16661@shell.monmouth.com> > Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged. > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I finally > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed THE > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyote > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit. > > ciao larry > lwalker@interlog.com > Why do you think we Field Service types were slightly crazy. They went from the VT100 case to that! Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 21 07:10:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <199807211210.AA26054@world.std.com> > Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged < > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I fina < > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed < > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyot < > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit. < > < > ciao larry < > lwalker@interlog.com While the VT100 case was easy to open the legal climate changed and easy to open meant users (meaning idiots) should open it and hurt themselves so they could sue. Screws like that oen in the VR200 and also others were meant as a legal dodge as if you went through all the trouble to open that you were delberate and if anything bad happnes it's on your head not DECs. As some oen involved in the design process we always had to banance easy to open with should it be openable at all. I know I was around DEC from 83->93 and worked with the corperate safety folks. You would not believe the stories we would share... Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 21 07:54:53 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211210.AA26054@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 21, 98 08:10:17 am Message-ID: <199807211254.IAA06942@shell.monmouth.com> > While the VT100 case was easy to open the legal climate changed and easy > to open meant users (meaning idiots) should open it and hurt themselves > so they could sue. Screws like that oen in the VR200 and also others were > meant as a legal dodge as if you went through all the trouble to open that > you were delberate and if anything bad happnes it's on your head not DECs. > As some oen involved in the design process we always had to banance easy > to open with should it be openable at all. I know I was around DEC from > 83->93 and worked with the corperate safety folks. You would not believe > the stories we would share... > > Allison > > Please tell me some! I actually thought it was to: 1. Discourage third party maintenance. 2. Avoid having the problems caused by the #$%^&* plastic clips on the VT100 breaking. Is there a cheap source of 'em for my pile of VT100's? I've been using bolts and crazy glue and nuts when needed. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 21 10:16:09 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980720131443.29ff1e1e@ricochet.net> At 10:12 AM 7/15/98 PDT, you wrote: >A short refresher on human psychology. Most of the time, a clearly >thinking person does not do anything they consider wrong. Your spammer >thinks he is doing someone a favor, and your songs are disrespectful Nah, Spammers just want to get rich, without consideration of the cost to others. No different than if I went to Safeway, shoved a bunch of sodas down my pants, and left to set up a store of my own. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 21 10:16:13 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980720135838.29ff0b5e@ricochet.net> At 02:31 PM 7/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >> Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old >(ancient) rotary dial telephones. > >Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home. Got one next to my bed for my main #. Also got a wall mount around somewhere, just waiting for a good place to mount it. (There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes ya think about the future of CLI's...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 21 10:16:17 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Old Phones (was: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980720140640.29ff1fe2@ricochet.net> While we're on the subject of old phones and phone systems, if you're ever in Edmonton, (Alberta, Canada) there is a pretty cool telephone museum there. Edmonton had something like the first phone system in Alberta or maybe even Canada. Anyway, I thought it was pretty cool. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 21 10:24:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <199807211524.AA28816@world.std.com> classic Safety things... LP25 gas springs that would die and drop the lid on the unwary head under it. Service engineer installing an RL02 in top of a mostly empty 50" cab has it topple forward and suffers injury. Reason, failed to extend and tighten anti-tip foot in the front of cab, disk installed against recommendations. Injuries include fracture and lacerations to leg. In the greater realm there are some that are near urban legend save for companies really paid for the frivilous though profitable(for someone) litigation of the 80s. Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal, significant brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions. Reason, does not say the drill should not be used for surgery. Two guys get drunk, decide they need to trim the hedges using gas powered lawn mower. Non fatal, loss of fingers. Suit paid out of court for 7 digits, reason; didn't say you can't use it for other than mowing lawn anywhere on the machine. Following years all sorts of blade brakes, kill switches and labels appear. Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off. Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses. Special note: Private pilot didn't have required valid flight review for that two year period needed to exercise the privilge of pilot in command. The pilot did not have the required flight time in the previous 90 days to exercise the privledge of carrying passengers. The purpose of flight was commercial photography (private pilot cannot hire out). The plane was modified illegally and improperly to mount a camara for the purpose of the flight was the cause of the loss of visibility for the pilot. The FAA issued in 1978 a directive that all aircraft will have shoulder harnesses installed. Despite an illegal operation, non complying pilot and aircraft an excuse was found to force libility on the manufacturer of the plane of some 40+ years age. < 1. Discourage third party maintenance. Least of the worries. Not a competative issue in reality. Cost to repair was near cost ot manufacuture so they had better be cheap. < 2. Avoid having the problems caused by the #$%^&* plastic clips on the < VT100 breaking. Is there a cheap source of 'em for my pile of VT100's < I've been using bolts and crazy glue and nuts when needed. That was also a consideration. as time progresed better fasteners, cost driven elements and producability items would all instigate various solutions. Allison From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jul 21 10:58:04 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > None of which would do a lot of good. Surely the Beeb doesn't look for > something on the 1MHz bus, does it? I can't see why it would, but then > again, I can't see how the Graduate works... I have just talked to someone about this, and next week I should be getting hold of the original designers notes on the graduate from an ex-employee of Torch who wrote the 6502 Graduate ROM. So if you can wait that long I should be able to post something on how it all works. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 11:04:56 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980721160457.14279.qmail@hotmail.com> The whole movie makes ya wonder about the future of society. Can't a guy be nice any more without being gay? Annyway, for those who haven't seen it, a supermodel is frantically stabbing at the numbers on the dial, not knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI? >(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes ya >think about the future of CLI's...) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 21 11:52:15 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211524.AA28816@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 21, 98 11:24:41 am Message-ID: <199807211652.MAA05118@shell.monmouth.com> > > classic > > Safety things... > > LP25 gas springs that would die and drop the lid on the unwary head under > it. Dataproducts should've been shot for this. This was a design problem from the beginning. A metal slide latch that would hold it open for maintenance would've been a cheap ($3.00) addition to the unit. The RM gas springs also would fail nicely. > > Service engineer installing an RL02 in top of a mostly empty 50" cab has > it topple forward and suffers injury. Reason, failed to extend and tighten > anti-tip foot in the front of cab, disk installed against recommendations. > Injuries include fracture and lacerations to leg. That's just a case of a service engineer who didn't have an IQ higher than the maximum RL unit id. > In the greater realm there are some that are near urban legend save for > companies really paid for the frivilous though profitable(for someone) > litigation of the 80s. > > Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal, significant > brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions. Reason, does not > say the drill should not be used for surgery. Probably an Urban legend. I'm sure the "not a step" message on ladders comes from a lawsuit like these. > > Two guys get drunk, decide they need to trim the hedges using gas powered > lawn mower. Non fatal, loss of fingers. Suit paid out of court for 7 > digits, reason; didn't say you can't use it for other than mowing lawn > anywhere on the machine. Following years all sorts of blade brakes, kill > switches and labels appear. There's definitely a problem with the legal system which is eliminating common sense. I found a book on the topic and will post the title and isbn. (or is it too far off topic) > Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off. > Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses. > Special note: Private pilot didn't have required valid flight review for > that two year period needed to exercise the privilge of pilot in command. > The pilot did not have the required flight time in the previous 90 days > to exercise the privledge of carrying passengers. The purpose of flight > was commercial photography (private pilot cannot hire out). The plane > was modified illegally and improperly to mount a camara for the purpose of > the flight was the cause of the loss of visibility for the pilot. The FAA > issued in 1978 a directive that all aircraft will have shoulder harnesses > installed. Despite an illegal operation, non complying pilot and aircraft > an excuse was found to force libility on the manufacturer of the plane of > some 40+ years age. > Disgusting that that was allowed. Jury trial leaves a lot open to who can pick the most sympathetic jury. > < 1. Discourage third party maintenance. > > Least of the worries. Not a competative issue in reality. Cost to repair > was near cost ot manufacuture so they had better be cheap. > > < 2. Avoid having the problems caused by the #$%^&* plastic clips on the > < VT100 breaking. Is there a cheap source of 'em for my pile of VT100's > < I've been using bolts and crazy glue and nuts when needed. > > That was also a consideration. as time progresed better fasteners, cost > driven elements and producability items would all instigate various > solutions. > > Allison > > Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 21 11:57:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807211657.AA29842@world.std.com> < knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI? < >(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes < ya < >think about the future of CLI's...) Command line interface... what you say to dos if ther isn't winders in the way. Allison From van at wired.com Tue Jul 21 12:14:43 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807211138.HAA25482@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: Cheers Larry. >> Puh-leeze! With humour that consistently bad, let me make a suggestion. >>86 the >> pathetic attempts at humour. Keep on topic without trying to be cute all the >> time. >> >> >> Ghia >> >> In a message dated 98-07-20 21:14:48 EDT, you write: >> >> << One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers >> is that they can't be killed, they can only be landfilled at a >> crossroad with a stake through the bell. Rumour has it that that after >> World War III the cockroaches will be able to use them to call Elvis. >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ >> >> >> > Hmmm. Must be a refugee from comp.sys.a2 who also left when Nathan Mates >stormed out recently in his usual huff. You took a wrong turn , Delphi is >over >thataway , just the other side of America On Line , oh great protector of the >earth. Better to be cute than offensive. > >ciao (now that's cute) larry >lwalker@interlog.com ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jul 21 12:40:00 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another follow up about the Graduate boot process... OK, in short, it works like this... (apologies in advance for being a bit vague, or even inaccurate on a few points - it's been well over a decade since I worked on the Graduate...) When powered on and booted, the Graduate asserts the NMI on the BBC Micro 1MHz bus. Thanks to an undocumented feature placed in the MOS by Paul Bond, if the 1MHz bus NMI is active when the BBC Micro is switched on, the MOS does a JSR to &FE00 (I think - the 1MHz data page). 256 bytes of the Graduate's 6502 ROM is paged into here, and the code wedges into the BBC Micro "call this OSBYTE on boot" call (I think). This is called several times on boot, and the Graduate allows the BBC Micro to completely boot, before using the bootstrap it copied into memory to copy over yet more 6502 assembler into BBC memory to act as the "client" for keyboard and screen operations. (The 6502 Graduate ROM can be paged into the 1MHz bus "data" space 256 bytes at a time by poking a register in the 1MHz bus "address" space. The other communication goes over the TAP, which was used to exchange the screen and keyboard data etc. Used a protocol sort of like the Torch Z80 "tube" calls, I think, but don't ask me more than that - I'll have to find the notes...) And if you thought the Graduate DFS was cr*p, it's because I developed it after each normal working day (8am - 4pm Torch, 4.30pm - midnight Data Technologies, go home, get up at 6am again...) over about six weeks and since it was not a sideways ROM, it had to execute entirely in 256 byte pages on the 1MHz bus. It's a miracle it worked at all (even if I do say so myself :-) ) -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From jott at rottweiler.ee.nd.edu Tue Jul 21 13:01:10 1998 From: jott at rottweiler.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers?on``````````` In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Jul 21, 98 10:40:00 am Message-ID: <199807211801.NAA11633@rottweiler.ee.nd.edu> > > > > Another follow up about the Graduate boot process... > > OK, in short, it works like this... (apologies in > advance for being a bit vague, or even inaccurate on > a few points - it's been well over a decade since I > worked on the Graduate...) > > When powered on and booted, the Graduate asserts the > NMI on the BBC Micro 1MHz bus. Thanks to an > undocumented feature placed in the MOS by Paul Bond, > if the 1MHz bus NMI is active when the BBC Micro is > switched on, the MOS does a JSR to &FE00 (I think - > the 1MHz data page). > > 256 bytes of the Graduate's 6502 ROM is paged into > here, and the code wedges into the BBC Micro "call > this OSBYTE on boot" call (I think). This is called > several times on boot, and the Graduate allows the > BBC Micro to completely boot, before using the > bootstrap it copied into memory to copy over yet > more 6502 assembler into BBC memory to act as the > "client" for keyboard and screen operations. > > (The 6502 Graduate ROM can be paged into the 1MHz > bus "data" space 256 bytes at a time by poking a > register in the 1MHz bus "address" space. The > other communication goes over the TAP, which was > used to exchange the screen and keyboard data etc. > Used a protocol sort of like the Torch Z80 "tube" > calls, I think, but don't ask me more than that - > I'll have to find the notes...) > > And if you thought the Graduate DFS was cr*p, it's > because I developed it after each normal working day > (8am - 4pm Torch, 4.30pm - midnight Data Technologies, > go home, get up at 6am again...) over about six weeks > and since it was not a sideways ROM, it had to > execute entirely in 256 byte pages on the 1MHz bus. > It's a miracle it worked at all (even if I do say so > myself :-) ) > > -- > Kevan > > Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ > > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 12:57:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211138.HAA25460@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 21, 98 07:35:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/ddac9707/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 12:34:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980721013805.12118.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 20, 98 06:38:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 611 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/14a66ede/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 13:13:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211210.AA26054@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 21, 98 08:10:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/811ccd9f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 12:51:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: <199807211138.HAA25438@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 21, 98 07:35:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1233 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/3ed0087c/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 21 16:14:00 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: MicroVax 2000 hard/floppy drive connector (60 pin IDC) In-Reply-To: <199807211657.AA29842@world.std.com> Message-ID: A few weeks ago, I inquired for information - and got it - about various items on the MicroVax 2k. In particular, I was advised that the 60 pin header on the motherboard was for hard and floppy drive interface, but the connectors were hard to find. I have stumbled across some of these locally and can provide them for $3 apiece or two for $5 mailed. You remove from the stub of ribbon cable. Let me know if there is interest, else I will let them stay in other hands. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 13:20:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Jul 21, 98 08:58:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 767 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/c32e8d62/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 16:12:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Jul 21, 98 10:40:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 467 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980721/c1bdf0ed/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Jul 21 16:29:49 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Severely offtopic, but... Message-ID: <13373510964.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Do you know what Hello Kitty is? If so, amuse yourself with the following... http://www.sanrio.co.jp/products/notepc/notepc.html Ignore the Japanese, what you're intersted in is down a little ways. When they make one like Ami-chan's got, I'll be interested. ------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Jul 21 16:34:24 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980715184926.3c871dda@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <000301bdb4ef$54a00ac0$83c448c2@snoopy> Might as well chime in with my meagre collection: Sinclair Spectrum 48 Sinclair Spectrum + Amstrad CPC464 Amstrad PCW 8256 Amstrad PCW 9512 (No OS disk or printer) Tulip PC Compact 2 (XT) Micro VAX II Sun 386i Sun 2/120 2 X PDP 11 Toshiba T3100SX (display doesn't work) IBM PS/2 Model 30 Tandon 286 Hoping to acquire a MicroVAX 3100 as soon as my employer gets tired of it cluttering up the place ;-) Most of these are used frequently for various purposes. Regards Pete From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 21 12:39:01 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? Message-ID: <199807212141.RAA29128@smtp.interlog.com> > > On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer > > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an > > individual. > > This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again. > And stand back for about 50+ messages a day ranging from Z1 to the - well > latest thing (frowned on but never ignored 8-) > > > I have some antiquated DEC equipment I'd like to see find a > > good home and was refered here. > > Interesting thought - I mean IS there such a thing as an - > 'antiquated DEC equipment' > I thought not 8-) Your ISP is out of Ohio... Is that where the equipment > is? A list of what is available and where would help out a lot. > > > -Wayne Cox > > wcox@infinet.com, wcox@usaeroteam.com > > Once again - Welcome! > > BC > ========================================================================= > Name: Classic Computer Rescue List > URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html > (Collectors by areas) > Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page > URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ > (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...) > Name: Classic Computer ListOp > URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ > (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?) > And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp and Doug Yowza's classiccmp FAQ backup at http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp Does anyone know if haliotis is still archiving ? My machine always hangs when I try and access it. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com lwalker@interlog.com From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 21 17:35:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <199807212235.AA17361@world.std.com> >Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal, >significant brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions. >Reason, does not say the drill should not be used for surgery. >Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off. >Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses. This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two: Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to walk into rotating blades... ("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 21 18:06:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: TI99: TIcK OS (a little to one side of topic) Message-ID: <199807212306.AA16070@world.std.com> < >Another is more complex but offers a few more possibilities. Use on the < >the interrupt levels and put ram at the rom addresses. The load vector < >can then be used to copy the ROMS from somewhere else to low memory. By < >doing this rom patching can be done or complete overlay of that 8k space < < Of course, but it also would require a *lot* of hacking to get done < and has some potential dangers. Mind you, P0 and P1 are free on the < 9901 and could be used as "page bits" for multiple segments of < ROM/RAM. Personally I like to keep things simple. Writing ROM < overlays is not fun and I'd rather avoid it. B'sides, if I can get < away with just using 2 *Very cheap* TTL components, so be it. I'll < still put POLLs in my software, but I'll include an IFD in my macro < and compile 2 versions, one with, one without. Not really. the trick used in 9900s is to use load to start a rom based program that copies itself to where ever needed and then turns itself off. The way I'd do it is to put a small rom at F000h and ram where the old roms were. The old rom can then be located at D000h with only a few bits (one) needed to turn off the old roms and the boot room. I do this all the time with Z80s to get the system totaly ram based but with the advantages of rom start up/restart. The trivial trick is to make it seem invisible. the big advantage is if you want to use the memory for something else you can but makesure to do a relod if you want things back to normal. I recently got an extra console that will be modified so that a pair of 32kx8s will map in to where rom, and 32kb expansion ram would be. IE: 0000->3fffh and A000->FFFFh. using 2 32kx8s keeps the chip count low even though 50% is wasted, besides they are cheap. The effect is the system could be much faster as it does not need the PEB access for base ram. I may want to yuse the full 64kb of the pars so I need to know how one of the larger cards like the corcomp 512k map. Do they do it as if it were multiples of 32k or are the two segments (2000->3FFFh and A000->FFFFh) mapped seperately or is it done in 8k segments? < Just a little FIFO would work well, but then, if the CPU bottlenecks < on data because it is physically too slow to even PROCESS the data, < such high data rates become useless and potentially dangerous. Not really it's a matter of buffering the data and post processing it when the tide slows or issueing an Xoff/suspend to stop the flow before the buffer overfills. This situation is nothing new, though in the world of CPU with clocks in the UHF region people may forget that. However the problems of data arriving faster than it can be processed is old hat. Besides with a ramdisk buffering a few kb of data is nothing. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 18:53:33 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980721235333.14008.qmail@hotmail.com> That's dead, I'll replace it. Should I also change the black bar- shaped 7.5 v cell? It's dead too, and I don't know what it's for. >> The thing powers up off the keyboard, like a mac. I tried powering it >> off a PC SMPSU, otherwise loaded by the PC from which it came. The >> PSU was working fine, and I got correct voltages, even the right >> voltages on the external power connector on the laptop (I connected >> the wires to the battery terminals). And now matter how many times I >> pressed the on button, the #*%^)!$ thing wouldn't start. Ideas? > >I've seen this one several times. > >Check/change the 3V 'coin cell' - the disk-like lithium cell that's >hidden inside the machine. It's needed for the power-on switch to work. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 19:03:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Severely offtopic, but... Message-ID: <19980722000329.26127.qmail@hotmail.com> I still don't get it. Anyway, while we're on topic, has everyone heard that the U.S.S. Yorktown's NT system crashed, causing it's engines to fail and forcing a towboat to pull it back to shore? The Navy is considering installing more NT systems; they won't install UNIX due to some protocol, not sure. Check www.osnews.com/news for the link to the story. >Do you know what Hello Kitty is? >If so, amuse yourself with the following... > >http://www.sanrio.co.jp/products/notepc/notepc.html >Ignore the Japanese, what you're intersted in is down a little ways. > >When they make one like Ami-chan's got, I'll be interested. >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 21 18:58:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980721235333.14008.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 21, 98 04:53:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980722/d229f55a/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 19:08:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980722000857.11322.qmail@hotmail.com> This is slightly different. It is difficult to see spinning blades, and people in third world countries who aren't used to helicopters are known to injure themselves, not noticing them. Especially if this was the same guy who drilled his brains out :) I assume you've all heard of the Darwin awards... >>Person tries to commit suicide using electric drill. Not fatal, >>significant brain damage. Heirs sue and the award is in the millions. >>Reason, does not say the drill should not be used for surgery. >This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two: > >Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his >family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to >walk into rotating blades... > >("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Jul 21 18:06:57 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: Another magazine article series Message-ID: <008901bdb506$77685780$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer Products) article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or 86/DOS...). Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Jul 21 19:19:07 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:25 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Progress Message-ID: <008a01bdb506$784a2c00$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> Well, I made some progess with the Mac Portable today. Although I still don't know what the Sad Mac code $0F means (all the FAQs that I've read skip from $0E to $10). Here's what I've found: 1. The portable won't accept a 1.44mb disk created with a PowerMac but that contains System 6.0.1 (I get the disk with the "X" in it). I thought that the drive was a 1.44mb disk. 2. It will not accept a 400k disk. 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which contains System 6.0.1. 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that the disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install script. Arrrgh... Time to hit ftp.apple.com Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 21 19:33:20 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807212235.AA17361@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 21, 98 06:35:31 pm Message-ID: <199807220033.UAA24300@shell.monmouth.com> > This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two: > > Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his > family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to > walk into rotating blades... > > ("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > I have the same view of Win95 self destruction and dll mismatches. Who was it who wrote the quote "Go Lemmings, Go..." -- Spider Robinson Robert A. Heinlein??? Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 21 19:36:09 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Severely offtopic, but... In-Reply-To: <19980722000329.26127.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 21, 98 05:03:28 pm Message-ID: <199807220036.UAA25685@shell.monmouth.com> > > I still don't get it. Anyway, while we're on topic, has everyone > heard that the U.S.S. Yorktown's NT system crashed, causing it's > engines to fail and forcing a towboat to pull it back to shore? > The Navy is considering installing more NT systems; they won't install > UNIX due to some protocol, not sure. Check www.osnews.com/news for > the link to the story. Actually it was due to a divide by 0 problem with data input. NT itself doesn't seem to be a contributing factor. Bill From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 21 20:37:04 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Progress In-Reply-To: <008a01bdb506$784a2c00$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 21, 98 08:19:07 pm Message-ID: <199807220137.VAA23492@user2.infinet.com> > > > Well, I made some progess with the Mac Portable today. Although I still > don't know what the Sad Mac code $0F means (all the FAQs that I've read skip > from $0E to $10). IIRC, $0F is a 68K F-line trap. I.e., some sort of invalid instruction that causes the CPU to go to the FPU emulation vector (there being a lack of a 68881/2 on a portable). I do not know what kinds of problems cause this on a Mac, but without OS support, it's fatal to the 68K. -ethan From gram at cnct.com Tue Jul 21 20:56:15 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <19980721160457.14279.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35B546BF.78CE5C67@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > The whole movie makes ya wonder about the future of society. Can't a guy > be nice any more without being gay? Annyway, for those who haven't seen > it, a supermodel is frantically stabbing at the numbers on the dial, not > knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI? > >(There's a great scene in In & Out involving a rotary phone... makes > ya > >think about the future of CLI's...) Command Line Interface. What you see when your computer gives you text (usually 80x24 characters) instead of pictures to point&drool at. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Tue Jul 21 21:37:47 1998 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Vic 20 & Commodore 64 peripherals wanted (fwd) Message-ID: Does anybody have any C64 or VIC-20 peripherals to sell? Please see message below tag line. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details [Last web page update: 07/21/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:47:50 EDT From: Ferock@aol.com To: siconic@jasmine.psyber.com Subject: Vic 20 & Commodore 64 I am looking to buy old peripheral equipment for the Commodore 64 and Vic 20. If you know anyone that is interested in selling these please e-mail me or give me a call. Thanks Glenn Ferock@aol.com 212-596-9184 From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Jul 21 21:45:51 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Progress Message-ID: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > 1. The portable won't accept a 1.44mb disk created with a PowerMac >but that contains System 6.0.1 (I get the disk with the "X" in it). I >thought that the drive was a 1.44mb disk. The Mac Portables did ship with 1.44mb drives, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what yours has. I came across one once that had been replaced with an 800k. > 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which >contains System 6.0.1. > 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that the >disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install >script. Arrrgh... So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you tried a genuine System Tools disk? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 21 22:20:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: For your amusement: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 -- Doug From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 21 22:31:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980721233125.006a7a08@netpath.net> Ya know, I sold one of these for about $15 one time, not too long ago, wait, mine was the ZX81. C'mon guys, let's all sell our computers on ebay! After we become billionaires, we can buy out microsoft and make Slick Billy lick our boots! :) At 10:20 PM 7/21/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >For your amusement: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 > >-- Doug > > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 21 22:54:30 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807212235.AA17361@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Megan wrote: > This may be simply anecdotal, but keeping in mind the other two: > > Man (accidently) walks into spinning tail rotor of helicopter... his > family sues because it wasn't placarded that it might be dangerous to > walk into rotating blades... > > ("Think of it as evolution in action.") :-) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Or to bring it into the realm of current events: Man smokes cigarettes for 50 years from his teens and contracts lung cancer. Sues tobacco company because he did not know that it was dangerous. Disclaimer: As a resident of the '90's, I take no responsibility for anything I say or do. If any of my actions hurt or offend anyone, it was probably not my fault, and the result of some childhood trauma which I've probably repressed. - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 21 20:56:30 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: Another magazine article series In-Reply-To: <008901bdb506$77685780$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980721205630.4617cc62@intellistar.net> At 07:06 PM 7/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer Products) >article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or >86/DOS...). Thanks. > I may have the original article. What issue was it in? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 21 21:39:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: off topic: rediculous law suits was Re: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807211652.MAA05118@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199807211524.AA28816@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980721213926.4ec71bce@intellistar.net> At 12:52 PM 7/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off. >> Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses. >> Special note: Private pilot didn't have required valid flight review for >> that two year period needed to exercise the privilge of pilot in command. >> The pilot did not have the required flight time in the previous 90 days >> to exercise the privledge of carrying passengers. The purpose of flight >> was commercial photography (private pilot cannot hire out). The plane >> was modified illegally and improperly to mount a camara for the purpose of >> the flight was the cause of the loss of visibility for the pilot. The FAA >> issued in 1978 a directive that all aircraft will have shoulder harnesses >> installed. Despite an illegal operation, non complying pilot and aircraft >> an excuse was found to force libility on the manufacturer of the plane of >> some 40+ years age. >> > >Disgusting that that was allowed. Jury trial leaves a lot open to who >can pick the most sympathetic jury. > >> >> Allison >> >> > >Bill > I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. You read about this stuff but you wonder if it really happens. IT DOES! A member of my family was one of the defendents in a trial very similar to this. The thing about that trial that amazed me was the facts that were keep FROM the jury. The behind the scenes rangling to suppress evidence was incredible. It's no wonder lawyers get such huge settlements considering how the jurys are manipulated and spoon feed only what the lawyers want them to hear. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 21 23:10:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: References: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980721231017.302fcd0c@intellistar.net> At 10:20 PM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >For your amusement: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 > >-- Doug $460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay! (Just kidding!!!!!!!!) Go look at his other ads. He has a 1 cent paper bill that some fool has bid $5 for! From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Jul 21 23:50:37 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: References: <199807212235.AA17361@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807220447.XAA08372@garcon.laidbak.com> My regular adult job is designing industrial vacuum systems for process vacuum. We have to, by law, put decals on our machines by the wire guard for the cooling fan that it's dangerous to stick your fingers in a rotating fan and by the control panel that it's dangerous to stick your fingers inside of a live 460 volt control panel. My feeling is that if you are stupid enough to require those decals, a) you have absolutely no business trying to install and run one of our machines, and b) you deserve what you get when you shove your fingers into a rotating fan. Just heard a story about a guy who defeated the safety catches on a sheet metal shear and removed the fingers on one hand. When OSHA and plant safety guys had him go through a recreation so they could figure out how to prevent morons like him bypassing the interlocks again, he promptly bypassed the safeties and removed the fingers from the other hand. I agree. At some point, natural selection plays a part................ Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Jul 21 23:55:23 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: References: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199807220452.XAA08693@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:20:58 -0500 (CDT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Doug Yowza To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Overpriced ZX80 Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > For your amusement: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 > > -- Doug > The bidder is some guy from Great Britain. Either he is seriously afflicted with some sort of Sinclair Syndrome, has too damn much money and nothing to do with it, or it's bogus like the guy who bid $600 on the C64 Educator. I suspect the latter, because he has no feedback. If it's choice #2, I have a spare C64 with a floppy I'd be willing to part with........ Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From mor at crl.com Tue Jul 21 23:29:47 1998 From: mor at crl.com (Greg Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 References: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <199807220452.XAA08693@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <35B56ABB.8A73AD0@crl.com> nerdware@laidbak.com wrote: > The bidder is some guy from Great Britain. Either he is seriously afflicted with > some sort of Sinclair Syndrome, has too damn much money and nothing to do > with it, or it's bogus like the guy who bid $600 on the C64 Educator. I suspect > the latter, because he has no feedback. I like the fact that it goes by the name "baggers" while the other zero-feedback UK bidder calls itself "adders". Uh, yeah right. -- mor@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 22 00:29:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > For your amusement: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 I am so utterly appalled at this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 22 00:03:55 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: References: <199807220245.TAA14698@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >For your amusement: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 > >-- Doug I think I need to find another hobby. This is just to crazy! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Jul 20 23:02:44 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: References: <199807211138.HAA25460@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 21, 98 07:35:58 am Message-ID: <199807220805.EAA14615@smtp.interlog.com> > > >> > > > Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged. > > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I finally > > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed THE > > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyote > > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit. > > Don't forget to extend the 'leg' fully as well. > That and the folding handle, as well as the shape are really "cool". > Similar screw covers are used on the VT220 IIRC. > > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are not in > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given). What you have to do > is prise (pry) the 2 covers off the top and undo the screws under them, > then put it face down, undo the 2 screws near the front, and the 4 screws > in the block of 6 that are nearest the rear of the monitor. The cover > then pulls off. But whatever you do, don't undo all 6 screws. If you do, > the mains transformer (read : heavy weight) falls off onto the back of > the CRT (read : glass thing waiting to implode). > > -tony > I ran across that with an IBM terminal that I finally tossed (NOT the 3270 one). I did keep the 15 pin cable tho, thinking I could use it to build a cable for my Dec Rainbow, if necessary. While puzzling, the two tabs on top, so neatly set into the case, were somewhat intuitive if you've worked on electronic equipment before. Case screws hidden in the strangest places. I like Sony's method of the arrow indicating the case screws , a real no-brainer.as compared to the VR201. I just checked my 5151 and 5153. They both have the tabs. I guess that was an IBM standard for the time. I'm always carefull when I see an odd number or more than 4 screws on the back. I've seen that with other devices as well. And then you find you've unscrewed some @#$%@$^ thing that's virtually impossible to reattach without a special jig. BTW that 404 had something like 8 1/2" # 8(?) screws holding the PCB to the K-b case. They don't make things like that anymore ! ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From kevan at heydon.org Wed Jul 22 03:10:01 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980721231017.302fcd0c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > $460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start > looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay! But to us british the ZX80 has the same nostalgic value as an Altair. The highest price I have seen a ZX80 go for here in the UK was 180 UKP but this example was fully boxed, the correct manuals, mint condition and known to work. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 22 04:08:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Kevan Heydon wrote: > But to us british the ZX80 has the same nostalgic value as an Altair. The > highest price I have seen a ZX80 go for here in the UK was 180 UKP but > this example was fully boxed, the correct manuals, mint condition and > known to work. So, how much are Altairs going for in the UK? Perhaps we need to set up a transatlantic swap. We could certainly use a few more British machines over here. Should I load up my suitcase with TRS-80 Model 100's when I go to Europe? I'd like to bring back a bunch of Sinclair Z88's with me. -- Doug From sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 06:31:42 1998 From: sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk (Sie Raybould) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Subscribe? Message-ID: <000d01bdb564$4d31ac60$96a14f8b@htva03.ens.ascom.ch> How do I subscribe to this list? I've tried -request, -admin e.t.c. Cheers, Sie From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 22 07:52:57 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 Message-ID: <199807221038.MAA23732@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> $460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start >> looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay! > But to us british the ZX80 has the same nostalgic value as an Altair. The > highest price I have seen a ZX80 go for here in the UK was 180 UKP but > this example was fully boxed, the correct manuals, mint condition and > known to work. 460 USD ? 180 UKP ? Wooha! And I just gave away a ZX80 for free last week (to a fellow collector - Stefan, did you check it ? Working ?). Althrugh it is an early ZX80 (see the glossing 'Keyboard' ? Later modells had a darkened keymat to give a chance for guessing the keys) I wouldn't pay anything more than DM 80-100 (~ USD 60, UKP 30) - no way. ZX80 is sill somewhat common. There are a lot of newer devices that are realy rare. Shure, the ZX81 is for most people more nostalgic than any KIM, AIM or Altair, since it was (together with the ZX81) the first computer for a real lot of people. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 22 06:08:42 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <74f2ac94.35b5c83b@aol.com> LOL, i love that disclaimer. time to reedit my .sig file... perhaps everyone should use it nowadays? In a message dated 98-07-21 23:57:06 EDT, Don Maslin put forth: << Disclaimer: As a resident of the '90's, I take no responsibility for anything I say or do. If any of my actions hurt or offend anyone, it was probably not my fault, and the result of some childhood trauma which I've probably repressed. >> From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 22 07:17:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Overpriced ZX80 Message-ID: <199807221217.AA01930@world.std.com> < On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: < < > For your amusement: < > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167 < < I am so utterly appalled at this. Sounds like the old practice of having a shill drive up the price. Allison From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jul 22 08:47:50 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <199807211210.AA26054@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980722094750.0068b3f8@mail.wincom.net> At 08:10 AM 7/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged >< > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I fina >< > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed >< > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyot >< > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit. >< > >< > ciao larry >< > lwalker@interlog.com > >While the VT100 case was easy to open the legal climate changed and easy >to open meant users (meaning idiots) should open it and hurt themselves >so they could sue. Screws like that oen in the VR200 and also others were >meant as a legal dodge as if you went through all the trouble to open that >you were delberate and if anything bad happnes it's on your head not DECs. >As some oen involved in the design process we always had to banance easy >to open with should it be openable at all. I know I was around DEC from >83->93 and worked with the corperate safety folks. You would not believe >the stories we would share... > >Allison > > Todays paper has an article about a fourteen year old Southern Ontario boy who electrocuted himself while using his computer "when the keyboard became disconnected and he tried to plug it in"!! This sounds nearly impossible and very hard on all the young people who are trying to conn a computer out of their parents. If I hear any more I will pass it along. Charlie Fox From bill.sheehan at stoneweb.com Wed Jul 22 09:03:27 1998 From: bill.sheehan at stoneweb.com (bill.sheehan@stoneweb.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues Message-ID: <85256649.004D087D.00@BOS-MTA01.SWEC.COM> While I suppose it's technically possible to be electrocuted by anything plugged into a wall outlet, I really have a hard time buying this story. There's got to be more to it than that. Can you tell me in what newspaper it appeared? "Charles E. Fox" on 07/22/98 09:47:50 AM Please respond to classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: Compaq//safety issues Todays paper has an article about a fourteen year old Southern Ontario boy who electrocuted himself while using his computer "when the keyboard became disconnected and he tried to plug it in"!! This sounds nearly impossible and very hard on all the young people who are trying to conn a computer out of their parents. If I hear any more I will pass it along. Charlie Fox From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jul 22 09:16:44 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Subscribe? In-Reply-To: <000d01bdb564$4d31ac60$96a14f8b@htva03.ens.ascom.ch> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980722101644.00698b34@mail.wincom.net> At 12:31 PM 7/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >How do I subscribe to this list? >I've tried -request, -admin e.t.c. > >Cheers, > >Sie > > > From the FAQ, email to: listproc@u.washington.edu with the message: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your address if you decide you can't stand us, repaet with : UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your address Have Fun From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jul 22 09:19:49 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <85256649.004D087D.00@BOS-MTA01.SWEC.COM> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980722101949.0069acf0@mail.wincom.net> At 10:03 AM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >While I suppose it's technically possible to be electrocuted by anything >plugged into a wall outlet, I really have a hard time buying this story. >There's got to be more to it than that. Can you tell me in what newspaper >it appeared? The Windsor Star, page c-12, July 22/98. It was also on the C.B.C. Radio news. > > > > > > >"Charles E. Fox" on 07/22/98 09:47:50 AM > >Please respond to classiccmp@u.washington.edu > >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > >cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) >Subject: Re: Compaq//safety issues > > > > > > Todays paper has an article about a fourteen year old Southern Ontario >boy >who electrocuted himself while using his computer "when the keyboard became >disconnected and he tried to plug it in"!! > This sounds nearly impossible and very hard on all the young people >who >are trying to conn a computer out of their parents. > If I hear any more I will pass it along. > > Charlie Fox > > > > > > > > From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 22 09:49:38 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: For your amusement only.... Message-ID: <199807221452.OAA07677@cyber2.servtech.com> FWIW: just to give some of you a bit of fun; no futher discussion needed here as it's kinda off topic. Found this in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc. Don't know for sure if Mr. Welch really gave the press rls. Posted on Thu, 16 Jul 1998: At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon. In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating (by Mr. Welch himself): If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics: 1. For no reason whatsoever your car would crash twice a day. 2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car. 3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on. 4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine. 5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT". But then you would have to buy more seats. 6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would only run on five per cent of the roads. 7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light. 8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt. 9. The air bag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off. 10. Occasionally for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grab hold of the radio antenna. 11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need or want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department. 12. Every time GM introduced a new model car, buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car. 13. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine. -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 11:55:16 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <19980722165517.15895.qmail@hotmail.com> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK and other countries as the US? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 11:58:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980722165821.5839.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I bought a replacement coin battery...it's starting up off the SMPSU from my Packard Bell. Hmm...the screen on my Mac Portable is a million times better...how do I get into the CMOS setup in this thing? Since the settings are reset, I can't get to the hard drive for any potential setup programs. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:05:41 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806229011.AA901156011@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Hans Franke wrote: > b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone > in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue) > exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor. Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor? I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *? Suggestions? Philip. From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 22 12:16:05 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4DF@mail.simconv.com> > While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK and other countries as the US? There was the slander lawsuit in the UK brought by McDonalds against some food activist pressure group. On the surface it sounded stupid, took forever, but in the end it proved to be a wise business choice for McDonalds. IIRC McDonalds won some small victory from it but it was a brilliant first strike to stop any future pressure groups. On the other hand even McDonalds loses a few. I think it was the McDonalds in downtown Shanghai, the Chinese Govt decided they wanted the property and booted McD out even thought McD had a lease on it. McD tried to sue in Chinese court, which surely qualifies as a stupid lawsuit in China. Jack peacock From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:10:43 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806229011.AA901156371@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Tony ended his long discourse on telephones with: > In practice, you're not going to damage the exchange no matter what you do > to the line at the subscriber end. The incoming lines are protected by an > array of spark gaps (probably gas filled), fuses and 'heat coils'. The old > electromechanical exchanges were certainly protected against lightening, > contact between telephone lines and (600V-ish) power lines, etc. Mains, at > the far end of the line, is trivial in comparison. ISTR that at our sites (electricity supply industry) we have to install special isolators on phone lines if the rise in local earth potential due to an earth fault exceeds 650V. Such sites are known as "hot sites". The implication is, anything less than 650V to ground the exchange can cope with. Besides, I think the limiting factor is safety of engineers working at exchanges... Philip. From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 22 12:19:47 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E0@mail.simconv.com> > I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *? Suggestions? Do what I do, refuse to use robot phone systems, always wait till an operator comes on line. If a company is too cheap to pay someone to answer the phone I certainly don't want to do business with them, it's a clear indication of the level of service I can expect. Jack Peacock From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 22 14:24:18 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <199807221710.TAA26750@marina.fth.sbs.de> > While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK > and other countries as the US? No, at least in Germany most of these laughable cases are rejectet from court. But we like to laugh about the US system. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From william at ans.net Wed Jul 22 12:19:39 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots In-Reply-To: <199807221710.TAA26750@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: > No, at least in Germany most of these laughable cases are > rejectet from court. But we like to laugh about the US system. 99.99% (or something like that) of all cases end up with reasonable outcomes - the press just shoves the _very_ few exceptions in our faces. Thread getting old now...how about talking about abortion, politics, or environmental issues? Or maybe ice fishing. Cripes... William Donzelli william@ans.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:19:12 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <9806229011.AA901156911@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips >> drivers to turn those Torx screws!!! >> >You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried >> to >> >open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble. Phillips driver to turn a Torx screw? Shame on you! Flat bladed much more effective provided you select the correct width ;-) > Since when does the use of Torx screws make something difficult to > dismantle? They're a lot better than the crosspoint (Phillips, Pozidriv, > etc) screws, which almost seem to be designed to cause the driver to > 'cam out' when you try to shift them. > > Dismantling is easy, anyway. It's getting it back together that's > interesting... Dismantling the LTE-lite 20 is not easy. For those who wish to have a go: 1. Find the four obvious screws at the back of the case. Make sure they are properly done up :-) Don't undo them! If you do you will cause permanent damage. 2. Remove battery. Screwdriver inside battery compartment will pop some of the clips that hold the top cover off. 3. Work around the edges, using additional force at the front corners, until top cover fully popped. Then fold screen right back and lift off cover. 4. Next undo the screw that holds the display cable in place (for cable read flexible pcb) and unplug said cable. 5. Then and only then can you undo the four screws at the back, and detach the screen. Thereafter, fairly obvious. All the screws are Torx 9, except for a few very small phillips in the display... If you start by undoing the obvious screws, you will tear the display cable, and it costs around 30 pounds to replace. Compaq don't sell to the general public. but will tell you the names of dealers who do. (Guess how I found that out!) Philip. From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 22 14:33:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807221718.TAA27249@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Hans Franke wrote: >> b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone >> in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue) >> exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor. > Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor? Sorry German tech talk - a/b are the 'names' of the two wires for two wire (analogue) telephone connections - and an a/b-adaptor is just a ISDN <-> analogue converter - so you van connect old phones (dtmf and pulse) to ISDN lines. > I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to > make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to > type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *? > Suggestions? SHIFT-ALT-CTRL-1 ? Grin(s) H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:22:02 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <9806229011.AA901157091@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> That's dead, I'll replace it. Should I also change the black bar- >> shaped 7.5 v cell? It's dead too, and I don't know what it's for. > > I'm not sure if the 7.5V bettery is required for the machine to power > up, on the other hand, it wasn't _designed_ to be dead, so it can do no > harm to replace it. It isn't required. Replacing mine did no good (ie powered up but didn't retain all settings, with old or new battery). New ones, being NiCd, are supplied fully discharged anyway. Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:27:38 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: off topic: rediculous law suits was Re: Compaq Message-ID: <9806229011.AA901157271@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>> Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off. >>> Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses. [rest of story snipped - you've all seen it several times!] > I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. You read about this stuff but you > wonder if it really happens. IT DOES! A member of my family was one of > the defendents in a trial very similar to this. The thing about that trial > that amazed me was the facts that were keep FROM the jury. The behind the > scenes rangling to suppress evidence was incredible. It's no wonder > lawyers get such huge settlements considering how the jurys are > manipulated and spoon feed only what the lawyers want them to hear. What price the oath to tell "the whole truth"? (In danger of getting seriously off topic here!) If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these. It is marginally (but only marginally) better over here - European harmonisation is making it worse, as did the Margaret Thatcher premiership... Philip. From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 22 14:42:48 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <199807221728.TAA27730@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Thread getting old now...how about talking about abortion, politics, or > environmental issues? Or maybe ice fishing. Cripes... Cripes ????? H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:34:07 1998 From: sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk (Sie Raybould) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: WTB: Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <005001bdb59f$5071ba60$96a14f8b@htva03.ens.ascom.ch> Anyone got a Jupiter Ace they'd be prepared to part with ? Sie From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 22 12:55:32 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots In-Reply-To: <19980722165517.15895.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK > and other countries as the US? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which tends to discourage filing frivolous suits. - don From sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 14:07:32 1998 From: sie at systemfile.demon.co.uk (Sie Raybould) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <006f01bdb5a3$fb1fbda0$96a14f8b@htva03.ens.ascom.ch> -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: 22 July 1998 19:00 Subject: Re: Idiots >On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK >> and other countries as the US? >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which >tends to discourage filing frivolous suits. No, this is no the case. I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence. It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid. Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke. We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their sentance. So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice. Sie From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 22 13:16:56 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <1998Jul22.141424.1767.120991@smtp.itgonline.com> zzzzzzzzzzzzzz ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Idiots Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/22/98 2:09 PM -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: 22 July 1998 19:00 Subject: Re: Idiots >On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK >> and other countries as the US? >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which >tends to discourage filing frivolous suits. No, this is no the case. I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence. It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid. Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke. We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their sentance. So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice. Sie ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul22.140944.1767.52719; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:09:45 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA17437; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:07:29 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA71130 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:07:25 -0700 Received: from rubicon.hasler.ascom.ch (rubicon.hasler.ascom.ch [139.79.129.1]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id LAA11798 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:07:23 -0700 Received: from ens.ascom.ch (chieftain.ens.ascom.ch [139.79.60.1]) by rubicon.hasler.ascom.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29648 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:07:16 +0200 (MET DS T) Received: from htva03 (htva03.ens.ascom.ch) by ens.ascom.ch (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1) id AA09613; Wed, 22 Jul 98 20:08:47 +0200 Message-Id: <006f01bdb5a3$fb1fbda0$96a14f8b@htva03.ens.ascom.ch> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:07:32 +0100 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sie Raybould" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Idiots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jul 22 13:51:02 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: RT-11 Help References: Message-ID: <35B63495.12D89F90@idirect.com> This is a general message for anyone who likes the PDP-11 and runs programs. While I realize that most of the people on this list are much more interested in the actual and real hardware, some of you may also want to be able to preserve and use the real software just as much. Well, there is now a PC emulator which is able to run most of the PDP-11 software without any change whatsoever. If you are interested: http://www.dbit.com is a good start. The most important programs are: E11 and PUTR at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/ If you have any questions, please ask. The author of these programs is John Wilson. Although I will admit to being an E11 and a PUTR user (since I am also an "RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict"), I am not receiving any compensation nor have I been asked to post this information. I do have personal experience in using both E11 and PUTR on the portable PC of a friend. Am I being off topic? I understand there is a 10 year limit. Does the same limit apply to software as well as hardware? Obviously E11 and PUTR are very new. But the intent is and does run 20 year old software. As an example, I had a real TU-58 drive (which was 20 years old) connected to a COM port on the PC which was running E11. In the TU-58 tape drive was a real DECTAPE II cartridge that was 20 years old with V3.0B of RT-11 which is from 1978 and I booted and ran the 20 year old version of RT-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From blndpete at raex.com Wed Jul 22 03:47:53 1998 From: blndpete at raex.com (Pete Persuric) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: <199807221911.PAA04097@mqueue.raex.com> Hi every one this a test, I am just checking addresses. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 22 14:12:21 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Iomega ALPHA-10 Message-ID: <199807221915.TAA14902@cyber2.servtech.com> I need a manual or a decent copy of one and any other available info on the Iomega ALPHA-10 SCSI removable disk drive. Nothing at the Iomega website, just the newer stuff. Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pjoules at enterprise.net Wed Jul 22 14:21:37 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bdb5a5$f4cc4160$a3c448c2@snoopy> > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are not in > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given). The thing I don't like about a lot of IBM stuff is the torx screws with a pin in the middle to stop as ordinary torx bit fitting. (I have been known to break the pin out and use a torx bit anyway :) The only other way which usually works is to wedge a flat screwdriver across a couple of the 'teeth' with its back against the pin, this seems to give enough purchase to turn the screw. Regards Pete From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 22 14:28:04 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806229011.AA901156011@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to > make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to > type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *? > Suggestions? '*' and '#' have no pulse analogues. However, in the states at least, the equivalent to dialing a dial access code preceded by a star or pound is generally achieved by rotary dialing '11' before the code (ie. *69 would be 1169). As for trying to communicate with auto-attendants, you'll probably have to add external buttons to your rotary phone to give you the capability of dialing '*' and '#'. While a pulse-to-DTMF converter is a neat hack (and these sort of converters were installed in some step-by-step exchanges in the US, at least there were in my local exchange when we were step-by-step, but come to think of it I don't know why, unless they were converting my pulse dialed digits to DTMF so that some other adjunct piece of equipment such as a Dialed Number Recorder could know what digits I was dialing, for purposes of surveillance ;) it'd be easier to just buy a cheap DTMF phone. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 22 14:39:02 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: off topic: rediculous law suits was Re: Compaq In-Reply-To: <9806229011.AA901157271@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main > reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the > legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these. Please don't use the sordid, sorry few to judge the rest of us by. Most of us are not thieving, coniving and lacking in any ethics or morals whatsoever. As someone stated in a previous post, these are exceptions that get celebrated. True there are smaller-scale cases like these that exist and occur frequently, but for the most part, we're not all that bad. I'm think I'm being objective considering I am suing my former employer for renegging on a written contract, a classic example of "you want your money? you'll have to go through the courts to get it". Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 22 14:41:03 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > Thread getting old now...how about talking about abortion, politics, or > environmental issues? Or maybe ice fishing. Cripes... How about classic computers? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 14:47:04 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:26 2005 Subject: Idiots Message-ID: <19980722194704.5330.qmail@hotmail.com> Fine, fine, if you insist...in ' The Soul of a New Machine', it is mentioned that IBM in the late '70s was in court almost continuously. What was the bulk of this about? > >How about classic computers? > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/21/98] > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 22 14:57:25 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E2@mail.simconv.com> On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main > reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the > legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these. I guess you have to grow up with the right mindset. True, the system is bizarre, but sometimes it can work in your favor too, if you can get a better shyster^h^h^h^h^h lawyer. And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight, or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas). Jack Peacock From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 12:29:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <199807220805.EAA14615@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jul 21, 98 04:02:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1138 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980722/fad4b40c/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 22 16:06:40 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: off topic: rediculous law suits was Re: Compaq In-Reply-To: References: <9806229011.AA901157271@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: Sam wrote: >Please don't use the sordid, sorry few to judge the rest of us by. Most >of us are not thieving, coniving and lacking in any ethics or morals >whatsoever. Hey, speak for yourself, monkeyboy... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 13:11:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980722094750.0068b3f8@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Jul 22, 98 09:47:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980722/2b431f9f/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jul 22 14:54:44 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: QIC-36/QIC-02 In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt's message of Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:03:19 -0400 References: <199807161709.RAA00828@cyber2.servtech.com> <199807201306.NAA07729@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807221954.MAA23749@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Christian Fandt wrote: > DC600 carts are the _physical_ media on which data is stored. I wasn't > saying DC600 is a format nor was QICxx a format HP uses (never knew what > protocol HP used 'til you mentioned HCD a bit later in yr msg.) Yes, the physical carts seem to be the same -- it's easy enough to scribble over the HCD formatting with a QIC format, at which point the tape is no longer usable in an HCD drive. So far as I know the HCD formatting must be written at the factory, and the tapes I've seen have had either HP or 3M labels on them. HP also seems to put down its own higher-level format on the tapes that it sells. Here's a story: Once upon a time the purchasing agent found she could save a few bucks ordering the 3M flavor of the tapes, and so we got one for testing. Well...on the 3000, the software for manipulating these things treats them as serial discs (which is exactly as wacky as it sounds, the tape drive is a CS/80 device and so the tapes are addressed by block), and so you're supposed to use the VINIT tool to format the "disc" and "serialize" it (i.e. write a volume label that says "this is a serial disc" for auto-volume recognition to read later). So what I noticed in my tests was that the 3M tape, when new, took 15 minutes for the FORMAT step, vs. the HP tapes which took seconds. I suspect that the time was taken by the tape drive formatting the tape and writing out the canonical CS/80 stuff like bad-block sparing tables and so forth, and that HP does this at their factory. -Frank McConnell From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 22 16:40:48 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E2@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: Jack Peacock wrote: >And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always >alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight, >or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your >local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all >time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas). > Jack Peacock As my friend, Vinnie, once told me many years ago, "Legbreakers are cheaper than lawyers, and often more effective". The other piece of advice he gave me was, "Never antagonize guys whose middle name is 'The'. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Jul 22 15:56:40 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: classic computer list?? Message-ID: <199807222056.QAA05873@dgs.cs.unc.edu> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer > > > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an > > > individual. > > > > This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again. > > ... > > Name: Classic Computer Rescue List > > URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html > > (Collectors by areas) > > Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page > > URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ > > (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...) > > Name: Classic Computer ListOp > > URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ > > (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?) > > > > And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at > > http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp Uh, I took that down due to zero participation. A distributed anything with only one node is a truly pitiful sight. There is still a web page there, but now it's just my own little corner of the web - no more grand schemes. Bill. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Jul 22 16:00:53 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list Message-ID: <199807222100.RAA05901@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse upon myself. The URL is http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html . I have added a "Current as of" date for each person, to help root out obsolete info. Right now, those are all set to the list creation date (11-Jun-97). If you find any of your info is wrong, let me know. I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description of how to correct it (such as abcxde@foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know if you object to this treatment of your address. Bill. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:27:22 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues Message-ID: <19980722212722.12313.qmail@hotmail.com> For one thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with cheaters, I have three or four connected to power strips and a microwave. If a problem should happen, touching the case could cause instant death, but a) so what b) what are the odds c)in an old apartment building like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about it to the landlord. They won't even replace the valves on the radiators! I might decide to actually attach those things to ground sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad habits). In general, it's not too hard to believe. There's nothing that could be done to prevent this from happening every so often. > >I would offer the following possible explanations : > >The PC was earthed (as it should be), and the boy was carrying a static >charge. Zap!, but not fatal, or even a cause of serious injury. Touching >any piece of earthed metal would have had the same effect > >The PC case was connected to mains earth, which for some reason due to >dangerous wiring wasn't the same as the local earth. If that's the case, >time to check out all the wiring before more accidents happen. > >The PC case wasn't earthed, and was floating at about half mains voltage >due to the filtering components. This is acutally a nasty problem, and is >caused by idiots who use those 2 pin cheater adapters. The mains filter >capacitors shouldn't be able to pass enough current to be fatal, but I'd >not bet on it. > >The boy tried to plug the keyboard into something other than the PC's >keyboard port :-). > >> are trying to conn a computer out of their parents. >> If I hear any more I will pass it along. >> >> Charlie Fox >> >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 22 16:35:03 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq Message-ID: <1998Jul22.172028.1767.121070@smtp.itgonline.com> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/22/98 5:15 PM Jack Peacock wrote: >And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always >alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight, >or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your >local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all >time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas). > Jack Peacock As my friend, Vinnie, once told me many years ago, "Legbreakers are cheaper than lawyers, and often more effective". The other piece of advice he gave me was, "Never antagonize guys whose middle name is 'The'. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul22.171540.1767.52764; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:15:41 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA26318; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:29:47 -0700 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA39878 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:29:44 -0700 Received: from mail3.sirius.com (mail3.sirius.com [205.134.253.133]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA25548 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:29:43 -0700 Received: from [205.134.227.91] (ppp-asfm04--192.sirius.net [205.134.240.192]) by mail3.sirius.com (8.8.7/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.12) with ESMTP id NAA11730 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:40:48 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Rax To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E2@mail.simconv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rax@pop.sirius.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Jul 22 16:41:38 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list Message-ID: <199807222141.OAA25742@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my >own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse >upon myself. Great! >I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My >favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description >of how to correct it (such as abcxde@foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know >if you object to this treatment of your address. That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email address has an 'x' in it? Anyway, please add me to the list. Pennsylvania Tom Owad York, PA tomowad@earthlink.net Location: Southcentral PA., Willing to pick up. How far I'll go depends on how interesting the computer is. Area of Interest: Anything other than IBM PC's and compatibles, especially Apples and DECs Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From boss at ibmhelp.com Wed Jul 22 17:19:09 1998 From: boss at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: VLB Ethernet card Message-ID: I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a little VLB 486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC. If you have one you'd like to unload, please email. I've got a bunch of old books and manuals (mostly IBM stuff) for trade, or I have some money laying around if you prefer it. thanks David -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From red at bears.org Wed Jul 22 17:36:17 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list In-Reply-To: <199807222100.RAA05901@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my > own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse > upon myself. Well! Now, that IS something! (: I hereby pass the torch on to you... --- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" To: indavis@juno.com Subject: CCRL addition Hi there. I'd like to be added to the Classic Computer Rescue List. C&P me right in there under Bruce Lane.. I'll even format the entry for you. --cut here--
Ray Stricklin
Edmonds, WA
Phone: (425) 775-0302
Voicemail: (206) 545-0177
red@bears.org
http://www.lycanthrope.o rg/~red/behind/tech.html
Primary interest is in older home and business micros, and workstation-class machines. Will rescue almost anything in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area, will travel to eastern Washington, northwestern Oregon, or southern BC for items of particular interest. Note that interesting to me is nothing like interesting to other people.

--end-- Thanks! ok r. From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 22 17:58:34 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: VLB Ethernet card Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E3@mail.simconv.com> >I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a little VLB 486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC. Hmm, IIRC VLB hasn't been around for 10 years, but I am curious to know if anyone made a VLB network card, I don't recall ever seeing one. I have some 486's running miscellaneous NT chores that could use a boost on network I/O. Along those lines, and closer to that 10 year limit, has anyone ever tried to overclock the Cyrix 486DLC or Dr2 replacement CPUs for 386DX's? Or for that matter, the Cyrix 586 CPUs that fit in 486 sockets? As in running a 586-120 at a base 40Mhz, upping it to 160Mhz? Jack Peacock From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 18:16:34 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: #%&@! more compaq... Message-ID: <19980722231634.10136.qmail@hotmail.com> I am sorry, but I really have to ask this before I do anything else. THe keyboard ribbon cable on the thing had some chipped contacts at the location of a bend near the socket. This prevented use of many keys. So, I trimmed the cable. This lets the kb work fine, but is barely long enough to get to the edge connector, and once there it won't stay properly. And now the damn thing is becoming chipped again. What should I do? I can't replace the ribbon because the whole keyboard circuit board is one piece of plastic film (two layers). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 15:11:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <000001bdb5a5$f4cc4160$a3c448c2@snoopy> from "Peter Joules" at Jul 22, 98 08:21:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980722/074bc913/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 18:45:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <19980722234527.17122.qmail@hotmail.com> Do you have those weird two-prong things? My building is full of them They're screws with a rounded head, and nothing on it but two little pits. >> > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are not in >> > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given). >> >> The thing I don't like about a lot of IBM stuff is the torx screws with a >> pin in the middle to stop as ordinary torx bit fitting. (I have been known > >Yes, PC power supplies tend to be full of them. The proper tool - a >tamperproof Torx bit - is pretty easy to obtain, actually. As are >tamperproof hex (like allen keys with a hole in the middle), tri-wing, >Torq, etc. I have the lot... > >-tony > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 22 19:20:58 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > As I mentioned once before, I once carried a VR201, by its handle, on a > train. Now, in that orientation, it looks a little like a bomb or land > mine, so I stuck a little label on each side with 'Danger Implosives' on > it, in red pen. Got some _very_ odd looks :-). Haha. That's a ballsy act. I wonder what would happen to you if you tried that today. Ok, now grow your beard out a little and try it in Arab head-dress. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 18:58:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <19980722212722.12313.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 22, 98 02:27:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4030 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/808d393f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 19:05:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: #%&@! more compaq... In-Reply-To: <19980722231634.10136.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 22, 98 04:16:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/22d048ae/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 19:29:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <19980722234527.17122.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 22, 98 04:45:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 335 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/26cffa29/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 22 19:31:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 22, 98 05:20:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/cb81f4c4/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 22 19:46:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list In-Reply-To: <199807222141.OAA25742@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for >email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email Unfortunatly this seems to be a serious problem. I've gotten a bunch of SPAM stating that was where they got my address, and am aware of one message board/web site that was "Harvested" for addresses. Unfortunatly anyone that posts to this list is suceptable to SPAM since these message are archived on the web. Then again, maybe I'm just starting to get overly paranoid, but I doubt it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Wed Jul 22 19:51:37 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Subscribe? References: <3.0.2.32.19980722101644.00698b34@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <35B68919.9C6A4ABF@rain.org> Just curious, but can I assume you also sent it email to him besides posting to the list? Charles E. Fox wrote: > > At 12:31 PM 7/22/98 +0100, you wrote: > >How do I subscribe to this list? > >I've tried -request, -admin e.t.c. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Sie > > > > > > > From the FAQ, email to: listproc@u.washington.edu > > with the message: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your address > > if you decide you can't stand us, repaet with : > UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your address > > Have Fun From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 22 21:08:41 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Manual available Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980722190841.00e644b0@mail.wa.jps.net> This one actually cost me some bucks, so I'll want to get at least something for it. However, I promise not to be outrageous. ;-) I have an operating/service manual, brand new, for the Hewlett-Packard 3456A DVM (yes, the meter's over ten years old -- produced in 1982, to be exact). I'd like to see it go to someone who has one of the meters but no manual. HP gets $44.00 plus tax for the thing. I'm asking $25.00, plus postage. Anyone? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Jul 22 21:13:35 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Progress Message-ID: <005801bdb5e1$52640e80$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad wrote: > 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which >contains System 6.0.1. > 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that the >disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install >script. Arrrgh... >>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you >>tried a genuine System Tools disk? Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the aforementioned SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the *only* disk that I've gotten to work so far. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Jul 22 21:19:12 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Wanted: Another magazine article series Message-ID: <005901bdb5e1$5345e300$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer Products) >article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or >86/DOS...). Thanks. > >>I may have the original article. What issue was it in? I don't know. Tim Shoppa mentioned the article series last week, and since I'm on a DOS 1.1 reverse engineering kick lately, I thought that the article would be appropriate. I would guess if Tim Patterson is talking about the predecessor of DOS, it would be in the late-79 to mid-80 range (hedging by bets a little). I guess that it could be as late as mid-1981 (based on the introduction of the 5150). Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 22 21:39:19 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980721163834.3c5f2bda@ricochet.net> At 09:04 AM 7/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI? CLI: Command Line Interface (As in, DOS, CP/M, RSTS/E, (sometimes) Unix, TRSDOS, MPE, etc.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From stanp at storm.ca Wed Jul 22 22:02:34 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq References: <19980722234527.17122.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35B6A7C5.443C9DF4@storm.ca> Max Eskin wrote: > Do you have those weird two-prong things? My building is full of them > They're screws with a rounded head, and nothing on it but two little > pits. We used to use screws with heads like these on pc cases at work. They have fallen into non-use since we found out how easy they are to take out otherwise. BTW, you could make your own "screwdriver" for them by grinding/filing/whatever a flat-bladed screwdriver. Just cut a notch out of the middle of the tip, leaving 2 pins in the right places. Stan > > > >> > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are > not in > >> > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given). > >> > >> The thing I don't like about a lot of IBM stuff is the torx screws > with a > >> pin in the middle to stop as ordinary torx bit fitting. (I have been > known > > > >Yes, PC power supplies tend to be full of them. The proper tool - a > >tamperproof Torx bit - is pretty easy to obtain, actually. As are > >tamperproof hex (like allen keys with a hole in the middle), tri-wing, > >Torq, etc. I have the lot... > > > >-tony > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From scott at saskatoon.com Wed Jul 22 23:20:36 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > not too surprised Tony has a tech manual. (Actually, I wouldn't be > > > surprised if Tony had a tech manual for Noah's Ark :) > > Ain't it the truth . : ^ )) And likely the only person in the world with it's > > actual dimensions ! In cubits ! > What? Noah's Ark or a VC414? The latter is easy to measure :-). The former is readily available also... 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, 30 cubits high. (Made of cypress wood, coated in pitch, etc.) It's not quite a tech manual, but maybe similar in some respects. ttyl srw From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 22 23:21:17 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: GE Workmaster In-Reply-To: <005801bdb5e1$52640e80$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: Anybody know about the Workmaster? http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201692256 http://ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/Ge_work.htm I'm guessing this is a genuine IBM PC in a "bomb proof" industrial portable case. Did any non-IBM PC have BASIC in ROM? -- Doug From william at ans.net Wed Jul 22 23:40:22 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: GE Workmaster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm guessing this is a genuine IBM PC in a "bomb proof" industrial > portable case. The real "bombproof" IBM PC is called a 7532, but they are rack mount. They are pretty rare - in fact I have never seen one outside of the telcos. William Donzelli william@ans.net From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 22 23:42:15 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: **** snip **** > Unfortunatly anyone that posts to this list is suceptable to SPAM since > these message are archived on the web. > > Then again, maybe I'm just starting to get overly paranoid, but I doubt it. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | Just because you think you are paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you! - don From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 22 23:52:40 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Wanted: Another magazine article series In-Reply-To: <005901bdb5e1$5345e300$3a9ffea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer > Products) > >article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or > >86/DOS...). Thanks. > > > >>I may have the original article. What issue was it in? > > I don't know. Tim Shoppa mentioned the article series last week, and > since I'm on a DOS 1.1 reverse engineering kick lately, I thought that the > article would be appropriate. > > I would guess if Tim Patterson is talking about the predecessor of DOS, > it would be in the late-79 to mid-80 range (hedging by bets a little). I > guess that it could be as late as mid-1981 (based on the introduction of the > 5150). > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin/CW6 > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> I have an 8" SCP 86 DOS Version 1.0 disk that bears Copyright dates of 1980 & 1981 as well as an 8" MS-DOS Version 2.0 disk that bears Copyright dates of 1979 - 1983 by Seattle Computer Products, Inc. Does that help target the dates? - don From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 00:42:54 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Wanted: Another magazine article series Message-ID: <199807230542.WAA10302@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 10:19 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe wrote: > > >> Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer >Products) >>article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or >>86/DOS...). Thanks. >> >>>I may have the original article. What issue was it in? > Does anyone know if there was an index published for BYTE? Don't remember even annual ones in the Dec. issues. I always missed them. I do have a short one which goes to the end of 1976. Some of my issues are in boxes where I cannot get to very easily. -Dave From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 23 06:30:16 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list Message-ID: <199807230916.LAA21980@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Unfortunatly anyone that posts to this list is suceptable to SPAM since > these message are archived on the web. > Then again, maybe I'm just starting to get overly paranoid, but I doubt it. I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Thu Jul 23 04:58:07 1998 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: HCM: Notification of URL change !!! Message-ID: Hi "collectors of classic computers" I'd like to inform you that the URL of the HomeComputer-Museum (HCM) will change. So if you have a URL pointing to the HomeComputer-Museum (HCM) at http://192.102.161.122/~walgen or http://jupiter.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen please update your URL/Bookmark to: http://www.HomeComputer.de/ this URL will be permanent - THANKS From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 23 07:50:57 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806239012.AA901223511@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > '*' and '#' have no pulse analogues. However, in the states at least, the > equivalent to dialing a dial access code preceded by a star or pound is > generally achieved by rotary dialing '11' before the code (ie. *69 would > be 1169). Fortunately in the UK there are no requirements yet (afaik) for * and # on the public networks. On the private exchange at work, 11=*, 12=#, 13=** and 14=##, at the beginnings of numbers only, but I don't know whether it still works. BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual name, followed by "gate" and "hatch". "Pound" means a script L with a couple of horizontal bars through it :-) > As for trying to communicate with auto-attendants, you'll probably have to > add external buttons to your rotary phone to give you the capability of > dialing '*' and '#'. That's what I was afraid of. Although a neater hack still would be a modified dial that did 11 pulses for * and 12 for #. Mechanically possible, but I wouldn't want to try and modify the old dial. There is a blanked-off hole in most type 746 phones that can accommodate 1 or 2 buttons, and I was thinking of putting # and * there, but this is more usually used for a "recall" button. Incidentally, does anyone know why "timed break" recall buttons are replacing local earth ones? And how long is the break? > While a pulse-to-DTMF converter is a neat hack (and these sort of > converters were installed in some step-by-step exchanges in the US, at > least there were in my local exchange when we were step-by-step, but come > to think of it I don't know why, unless they were converting my pulse > dialed digits to DTMF so that some other adjunct piece of equipment such > as a Dialed Number Recorder could know what digits I was dialing, for > purposes of surveillance ;) it'd be easier to just buy a cheap DTMF phone. Sam, you should be ashamed of yourself. The object of the exercise was not to get a DTMF phone, but to get one with a _rotary dial_. I already have a DTMF phone, and I am interested in thes project _purely_ for hack value. Slightly less far off topic, does anyone know the reason for the divergence in layout between phone keypads and computer ones, i.e. 123 789 456 vs. 456 ? 789 123 0 0 Which came first? Philip. From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 23 08:13:49 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: FW: Web page of possible interest Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980723061349.00e7b480@mail.wa.jps.net> I was corresponding with this fellow a while back. He indicated that some or all of the gear listed -might- get shipped to a staging point in the US of A. I've had no further word on that, and I'm in no position to buy anything right at the moment. However, that may not hold true for other CLASSICCMP'ers. With that in mind, check out the site and, if interested, contact Mr. Tey directly. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- >X-Sender: wmtey@post1.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:41:11 +0800 >To: "Anuar Omar" , joe@ar.co.th, sakchai@ar.co.th, > Bruce Lane , chaiyut@irc.co.th, >From: william tey >Subject: bargain hunting! > >pls visit our web page at: > >http://www.berkeley.com.sg/surplus.htm > >for best bargain in town! > > >william tey >berkeley electronics pte ltd >135 joo seng road #05-03 >pm industrial building >singapore 368363 >joo chiat p.o. box 0859 >singapore 914202 >tel: (65)382-5998, fax: (65)382-5982 >email: wmtey@post1.com > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From bill.sheehan at stoneweb.com Thu Jul 23 09:38:03 1998 From: bill.sheehan at stoneweb.com (bill.sheehan@stoneweb.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq Message-ID: <8525664A.004FB71D.00@BOS-MTA01.SWEC.COM> Reminds me of a trick Penn Jillette (of the magician duo Penn & Teller) thought somebody (somebody other than *him*) should try on their laptops next time they pass through an airport: AUTOEXEC.BAT echo ARMING.... echo ARMED echo 10 echo 9 echo 8... (Note: This may well be a federal crime, and I don't recommend it. It's also a bad idea to call and wave to friends in airports ("Hi, Jack!") and to disparage the in-flight movie ("'My Best Friend's Wedding?' What a bomb!"). -- Bill Sam Ismail on 07/22/98 08:20:58 PM Please respond to classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: Compaq On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > As I mentioned once before, I once carried a VR201, by its handle, on a > train. Now, in that orientation, it looks a little like a bomb or land > mine, so I stuck a little label on each side with 'Danger Implosives' on > it, in red pen. Got some _very_ odd looks :-). Haha. That's a ballsy act. I wonder what would happen to you if you tried that today. Ok, now grow your beard out a little and try it in Arab head-dress. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Jul 23 10:21:40 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980722201355.43e736ac@ricochet.net> At 02:41 PM 7/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >>I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My [...] >That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for >email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email Yep, they do. I've got a page stored on my pager that came from a spammer trolling for e-mail addresses on web pages. (My pager can be reached at <4152010273@alphapage.airtouch.com> and there is are links to said address on my site.) I've gotten several such pages (but only keep the one to show people.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 11:56:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues Message-ID: <19980723165618.23872.qmail@hotmail.com> LARTed with a tesla coil, right? So how do you propose using a pc in a building without three-prong sockets? >I do, and if I catch anyone removing safety earth connections in my >workshop, they will be LARTed. I am serious. I've worked enough with the >mains to know how dangerous it can be. > I doubt 240 vs. 110 is much difference as far as heart muscle is concerned >(a) If I want to commit suicide I will do :-). But I don't want to set >booby traps in my workshop. Perhaps I'm more careful becausewe've got 240V >mains here. > So, why have I never felt anything touching a PC case? I've done it many times, I've touched insides many times, and I've never felt so much as a tingle. Would I be able to use a VOM to find this voltage? > >Right, an explanation. The 'Earth' wire goes to the metal PC case, and >also to the thrid pin of the plug. 'Neutral' is connected to earth at the >main distribution board (US), last distribution transformer (UK), and is >effectively earth. And live is 110V (or 240V) above that. > >Now, the 2 capacitors on the left form a capacitive potential divider. So >if the earth wire is not bonded to ground, then the midpoint of that is >going to be at half mains voltage - 55V (or 120V) wrt neutral, which is >efectively local earth. That means the case of the PC - the external metal >case - is at that voltage wrt local earth. Now the capacitor values >_should_ limit the available current, but I'd not bet on it. Also, the >capacitors should be a special safety type which are unable to fail >shorted (I forget the type - it's either class X or class Y), but I've >seen plenty of cheap-n-nasty PSUs with just 600V capacitors in this >position. If I spot them like that, they get replaced, BTW. > >And that's what I'm going on about. Not that the keyboard was live, but >that the metal case of the PC had a significant voltage wrt local earth. >Normally you'd not notice it - the front panel is probably plastic, so >are the floppy drives, etc. But reach round the back to plug in the >keyboard cable, touch the back of the case, and zap! > > >> like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about > >> sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the > >I am not fanatical about safety - I do plenty of things that can be >considered dangerous. I use machine tools, I change CRTs, I work on >30kV supplies, I work on mains, I repair SMPSUs, I even work on live >equipment if necessary. And yes I defeat safety interlocks if there's a >good reason for so doing, and I know what the consequences are. But there's >no way you'll catch me removing an earth connection without a _very_ good >reason. > > >> boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know >> of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them >> w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which > >The backplate of an XT keyboard is connected to the body of the DIN plug. >If that's live for any reason, then there's something seriously wrong - >see above. > >> could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the > >There is no voltage on a keyboard connector that can kill - at least not >if the rest of the PC is correctly wired. I'd touch any component in a >working XT keyboard and I'd live to tell the tale. > >> wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with >> hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could >> undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad > >Argh!!! I prefer to use proper cable joined with proper connectors - with >insulation and strain reliefs. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:00:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Progress Message-ID: <19980723170046.14550.qmail@hotmail.com> Weird. Maybe there is damage to some ROM somewhere? If you have another floppy drive, try plugging that in. I've never had any problems with my Superdrive >On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad >wrote: > >> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which >>contains System 6.0.1. >> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that >the >>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install >>script. Arrrgh... > >>>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you >>>tried a genuine System Tools disk? > > Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the aforementioned >SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the *only* >disk that I've gotten to work so far. > > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin/CW6 > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:26:47 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: New rescue list Message-ID: <19980723172647.9619.qmail@hotmail.com> I have never gotten real spam to my address, non-real spam being unwanted jokes and chain letters from people who have my address. It's amazing, every few weeks the "Bill Gates goes to heaven" joke is rediscovered... >I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase >of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the >usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also >be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made >SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most >usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :) > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:30:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980723173042.11890.qmail@hotmail.com> What is the official meaning of the symbol #? >BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual >name, followed by "gate" and "hatch". "Pound" means a script L with a >couple of horizontal bars through it :-) > How is 'recall' done? Where is the number stored? As for the keypad configurations, I'm sure it all goes back to competing calculator models. >That's what I was afraid of. Although a neater hack still would be a >modified dial that did 11 pulses for * and 12 for #. Mechanically >possible, but I wouldn't want to try and modify the old dial. > >There is a blanked-off hole in most type 746 phones that can accommodate >1 or 2 buttons, and I was thinking of putting # and * there, but this is >more usually used for a "recall" button. > >Incidentally, does anyone know why "timed break" recall buttons are >replacing local earth ones? And how long is the break? > >> While a pulse-to-DTMF converter is a neat hack (and these sort of >> converters were installed in some step-by-step exchanges in the US, at >> least there were in my local exchange when we were step-by-step, but come >> to think of it I don't know why, unless they were converting my pulse >> dialed digits to DTMF so that some other adjunct piece of equipment such >> as a Dialed Number Recorder could know what digits I was dialing, for >> purposes of surveillance ;) it'd be easier to just buy a cheap DTMF phone. > >Sam, you should be ashamed of yourself. The object of the exercise was >not to get a DTMF phone, but to get one with a _rotary dial_. I already >have a DTMF phone, and I am interested in thes project _purely_ for hack >value. > >Slightly less far off topic, does anyone know the reason for the >divergence in layout between phone keypads and computer ones, i.e. > >123 789 >456 vs. 456 ? >789 123 > 0 0 > >Which came first? > >Philip. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 23 14:04:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806239012.AA901223511@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > That's what I was afraid of. Although a neater hack still would be a > modified dial that did 11 pulses for * and 12 for #. Mechanically > possible, but I wouldn't want to try and modify the old dial. Well, you could do that. However, here in the States, you'd most likely end up confusing the telco switch. 11 and 12 pulses are not defined as anything meaningful. What you'd have is 10 pulses (0) immediately followed by another one or two pulses. I'd say the results are unpredictable as to what the particular switch you are on would do. I suspect the same is true for the UK phone systems. > Sam, you should be ashamed of yourself. The object of the exercise was > not to get a DTMF phone, but to get one with a _rotary dial_. I already > have a DTMF phone, and I am interested in thes project _purely_ for hack > value. Yeah, I know, but the only problem with the exercise is that it would be futile. There's simply no pulse equivalent to DTMF '*' and '#'. That was my point. > Slightly less far off topic, does anyone know the reason for the > divergence in layout between phone keypads and computer ones, i.e. > > 123 789 > 456 vs. 456 ? > 789 123 > 0 0 Computers are based on traditional ten-key numerical input keypads and calculator keypads. The phone layout came later as touch tone phones weren't introduced until around the late 60s or 70s. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 23 14:11:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <19980723173042.11890.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > What is the official meaning of the symbol #? Whatever you want it to be. That's why its called a "symbol". > How is 'recall' done? Where is the number stored? As for the If we're talking about the phone company recall feature, its stored at the telco switch in a "register" (more likely a computer database on a hard drive). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Thu Jul 23 14:21:51 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: VLB Ethernet card In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E3@mail.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Jul 22, 98 03:58:34 pm Message-ID: <199807231921.PAA20232@shell.monmouth.com> > > >I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a > little VLB 486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC. > > > Hmm, IIRC VLB hasn't been around for 10 years, but I am curious to know > if anyone made a VLB network card, I don't recall ever seeing one. I > have some 486's running miscellaneous NT chores that could use a boost > on network I/O. > > Along those lines, and closer to that 10 year limit, has anyone ever > tried to overclock the Cyrix 486DLC or Dr2 replacement CPUs for 386DX's? > Or for that matter, the Cyrix 586 CPUs that fit in 486 sockets? As in > running a 586-120 at a base 40Mhz, upping it to 160Mhz? > Jack Peacock > Jack -- there were Novell NE2000 clones in VLB format. That's about all I know. Since ethernet tops out at 10MB theoretical you really shouldn't have to go VLB for the Ethernet, a good SMC 8013/8216 should do just fine. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Jul 23 14:32:11 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. Message-ID: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I think it's dead. I plugged it in, turned it on, and the Power light comes on, about 1/2 second later. regardless of what it's plugged into or not, the Carrier light comes high. I have an old style phone, I dialed out rack (I think the modems will go down to 300 baud...) waited for the 1st ring and shoved it in the coupler. No dice. What is one supposed to do with these? ------- From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 23 15:07:44 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:27 2005 Subject: PDP-8 in the UK In-Reply-To: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: It's probably already gone, but it couldn't hurt to check: << I just found the attached note in my in-box; please contact jim.raw@synpac.co.uk and not me if you're interested in this! -- attachment -- | I am about to take out of commision two PDP 8E's and a PDP 11/34 | They have been used to control the production of penicillin in a KENT | K 70 process control system | | I have twoo 16 K stacks of core memory, and several 4k and 8k stacks | Additionally I have developed and built 32k stacks of RAM memory with | DMA access from a Motorala 68000 chip set | | ANY INTEREST | Jim Raw >> -- Doug From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Jul 23 15:12:57 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jul 23, 98 12:32:11 pm Message-ID: <199807232012.NAA19256@saul7.u.washington.edu> > I think it's dead. > I plugged it in, turned it on, and the Power light comes on, > about 1/2 second later. regardless of what it's plugged into or > not, the Carrier light comes high. I have no experience with acoustically-coupled modems, but here goes anyway. That may be a customizable setting of the modem (you can force modern modems to always assume a carrier, I believe). > I have an old style phone, I dialed out rack (I think the modems will > go down to 300 baud...) waited for the 1st ring and shoved it in the coupler. > No dice. Is there a VOICE/DATA switch somewhere? (Now that I think about it, this doesn't make sense if the modem always assumes carrier, but it's worth a shot I suppose.) That switch would be used on combination voice & data lines (you call -- your friend answers -- you both agree to start the data connection -- you flip the switch and your friend does the same). -- Derek From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Jul 23 15:20:43 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <199807232012.NAA19256@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13374022672.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Voice/data switch?] Nope. But it has a full/half duplex switch... ------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 23 15:22:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <199807232012.NAA19256@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > Is there a VOICE/DATA switch somewhere? (Now that I think about it, this > doesn't make sense if the modem always assumes carrier, but it's worth a shot > I suppose.) Voice/data switch !!??!? Its an acoustically coupled modem! If you want to go voice you would pick the receiver back up! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 23 15:25:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Andrew Davie in Newsweek Message-ID: Check out what I just found in the July 27 edition of Newsweek, Cyberscope, page 11: Russian Additions The Museum of Soviet Calculators on the Web (MOSCOW for short, at www.comcen.com.au/~adavie) will thrill collectors and amuse the rest of us. "The weird stuff about Soviet machines is what I love," says its curator, Andrew Davie, 33, a programmer from Australia who owns 15 of the 60 devices pictured at his site. Example: unlike American caluclators that form all numbers from 0 to 9 using just seven little parts, some Russian ones use nine. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 15:32:38 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. Message-ID: <19980723203238.21973.qmail@hotmail.com> I have what seems to be a similar problem on my Practical Periph. 2400 direct-connect modem. It can dial, but refuses to pick up the carrier. Maybe a bad transistor somewhere... it this the only switch it has? >[Voice/data switch?] >Nope. >But it has a full/half duplex switch... >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Jul 23 15:34:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <19980723203238.21973.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13374025126.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Only switch F/H switch?] Aside from the power switch... ------- From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Thu Jul 23 15:50:24 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Operation of old modems Message-ID: <199807232050.QAA17662@dgs.cs.unc.edu> I just picked up an old BellSouth 212A modem, and don't know how to make it go. It has a handful of pushbuttons on the front (AL ST RL DL HS TLK), and doesn't respond to the Hayes command set. Am I supposed to dial the phone myself, and then tell the modem to wake up when I hear the carrier, like with the old acoustic modems? Any ideas on what those abbreviations are? I'm guessing HS = "high speed", probably meaning 1200 baud. :-) And TLK must be "talk". The others have me stumped. Maybe AL is "analog loopback"?) Hints would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Jul 23 11:57:14 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: #%&@! more compaq... In-Reply-To: References: <19980722231634.10136.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 22, 98 04:16:34 pm Message-ID: <199807232035.QAA14371@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:05:55 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: #%&@! more compaq... > > > > I am sorry, but I really have to ask this before I do anything else. Snipped! > > again. What should I do? I can't replace the ribbon because the whole > > keyboard circuit board is one piece of plastic film (two layers). I know stupid green with grey/black traces very well, they're really a bitch to handle and they're very poor when it get wet causes corrosion in few days rendering some types useless especially those that are one-sheet multi-layer designs. These are typical semiclear poly sheet that has grey conductive (like a ink) traces and pads silkscreened right on there. Sometimes denpending on design requirements uses folded sheet with a insulating sheet with holes at right locations to keep switch contacts apart at specific distrance by that thickness of this poly sheet. As in PS/1 keyboards. In other keyboards, usually uses one sheet with layers of conductive ink printed on then insulating green silkscreened on it to permit another layer of conductive ink and final insulating printed on, sometimes some designs uses itself as contacts or use carbon ink just for the contacts itself. Max!!, Don't - (snip!) oh no, too late! After all those blue streak cursing settled, be prepared to curse again, butched that one really good. You can't make it longer again for ever. And this keyboard is unit replacement and usually costs more than what this laptop is worth direct from compaq. Yes, still can get parts for most older notebooks. Other sources, you can ask and surf on that newsgroups and websites until you find a used keyboard or another broken notebook. These cracks in that grey traces CAN BE repaired with a conductive pen. I use mine product called "Circuit Works" for this. I kept my LTE 386s/20 keyboard alive on that narrower one of two set cables for years and the repaired sections is still flexiable. My method: clean real good and insure that traces is not insulated by another sticky tape. Glop some conductive ink on in a way that is easily clear any shorts, let dry for few hours. Scrape to make new traces as originally designed. Need to keep that black part because this is better material for making connections in that locking connectors. That why you snipped that off and that is far too short. I did once but I only merely very tiny trimmed it if asolutely must. For anything else, I merely dab on with a wetted end of blunt slim objects. Oh, you can't solder because of that poly sheets. TIP: unscrew that applicator off that pen after shaking that pen until that steel ball rattles and stick the tool of your choice in there to get some load of that grey stuff instead of it's built in applicator. It dries real fast so you have to transfer that conductive ink direct from that pen to the work. > > > How about making an extension cable? If it's the sort of tapewire that I > think it is, the 'edge connector' is a standard part. And you can buy > straight pieces of the cable - a little hard to find, but you can > sometimes raid them off old printheads. Solder the pins of connector to one > end of (say) 2" of tapewire and plug the whole lot together. Too different between 2 due to pin pitches. :-( tapewire and that printed on sheets. But thanks for this tip, I was wondering where to find them as I sometimes need them to make new cables or create new adapters ie: LTE 286 to replace the clobbered 3.5" hd for a 2.5" hd ide. > > Whatever you do, don't bring a soldering iron near the keyboard flexible > PCB. It will melt, and fixing it is not fun. Oh you jumped in there first so that is fine with me. :) > > -tony Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 12:33:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: VC404 The Standard In-Reply-To: from "Scott Walde" at Jul 22, 98 10:20:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 428 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/c223a403/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 12:48:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806239012.AA901223511@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 23, 98 12:50:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2018 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/012a7583/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 13:06:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <19980723165618.23872.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 23, 98 09:56:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1775 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/34a8abfe/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 23 16:50:18 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > I think it's dead. > I plugged it in, turned it on, and the Power light comes on, > about 1/2 second later. regardless of what it's plugged into or > not, the Carrier light comes high. > I have an old style phone, I dialed out rack (I think the modems will > go down to 300 baud...) waited for the 1st ring and shoved it in the coupler. > No dice. You should be able to check half of it fairly easily. Connect it to your PC, bring up your favorite comms program, and tell it to dial a number. You should be able to hear it in the telephone microphone end of the coupler. If you cannot, either you have some wires crossed or that part of it is dead. If OK, you may be able to devise some similar test in reverse to test the other channel. - don From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Jul 23 17:05:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13374041741.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Tell it to dial...] This is an accoustic coupler. It has no command language, and it can't dial on it's own. ------- From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 23 17:58:04 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <13374041741.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [Tell it to dial...] > > This is an accoustic coupler. It has no command language, and it can't dial on > it's own. > ------- Sorry, brain fade! What I meant to say is to tell your comms program pulse dial a number. Or, if you prefer, tell it to send a file to the coupler. As I said before, you should hear something unless you have your wires crossed or it is broken. - don From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Jul 23 13:09:44 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Fat Mac Question and new Finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199807232210.RAA05608@trailingedge.com> Hi, Been away for a bit but I'm back now. Went "shopping" again the other day and picked up a few items. Manual - Original Macintosh Manual - MacWorks for the Lisa Manual - The Applesoft Tutorial Manual - Waterloo microAPL for the SuperPET Book - Write Your Own Apple Games Mags - 2 Issues of Microsystems And a Fat (512K) Mac. The only problem is the Fat Mac is missing its keyboard and a boot disk. Can anyone help out? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 18:33:26 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues Message-ID: <19980723233326.2910.qmail@hotmail.com> You will LART me for sure because of this question. Is it possible to use the neutral side of a socket for ground? What, in fact, is the difference? (dopeslaps start flying in) >The best way is probably to use a proper isolating transformer. In other >words have neither side of the 110V going to the PC connected to earth. > >A cheater adapter is also fine, provided you connect the 'pigtail' to a good >local earth point. Note that the fixing screw of the outlet (and hence >the mounting box/conduit) may not be earthed. Should be, but I'd not put >my life on it. > >> So, why have I never felt anything touching a PC case? I've done it >> many times, I've touched insides many times, and I've never felt so >> much as a tingle. Would I be able to use a VOM to find this voltage? > >Depends on a lot of things - how well earthed _you_ are (if there's no >way a current can flow through you, then you'll not feel anything). The >values of the capacitors used - low enough, and the current will also be >too low to feel. In practice, this should be the case, but having seen some >cheap PC power supplies I'd not trust them. Oh, and how sensitive you are >to the current. > >In theory, if you connect one side of a high-impedance AC voltmeter to a >local earth point (or, indeed, the neutral side of the socket), and the >other side to the PC chassis without an earth connection, you should be >able to measure 55V. > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 16:53:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 23, 98 12:04:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/53ca157c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 17:04:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jul 23, 98 12:32:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/614f5ee3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 16:57:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac 512 video mods In-Reply-To: from "mandrake@pop3.demon.co.uk" at Jul 23, 98 07:04:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/9e31dca7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 17:07:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Operation of old modems In-Reply-To: <199807232050.QAA17662@dgs.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Jul 23, 98 04:50:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980723/994d29d9/attachment.ksh From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Jul 23 18:58:14 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M Message-ID: <01bdb695$c142ba40$2128a2ce@laptop> I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson QX-10 running CP/M. His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB. I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand the bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems. I have questions -- Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its format utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and enter it? Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under MS-DOS? What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard drive? Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB? Thanks, manney@lrbcg.com From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 23 19:28:21 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <01bdb695$c142ba40$2128a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, PG Manney wrote: > I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson > QX-10 running CP/M. > > His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an > ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB. I find no data for the Vertex 185, but it should have at least as many heads and cylinders as the disk replaced. That is, unless the CP/M HD format program is more flexible than most. > I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand the > bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems. > > I have questions -- > > Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its format > utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and enter > it? I think not. Most CP/M HD format programs that I have run across do not offer the facility to enter bad block data. After format, run a program such as FINDBAD.COM, which will identigy bad blocks and mark them as used in the USER 15 directory. > Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under > MS-DOS? It is all done in a single operation. No separate LL and HL formats. The entire disk will be filled with sectors full of 0E5H's. > What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard drive? Probably, won't note it. > Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB? As I said, unless it is a more flexible than most HD format program, it will format the same number of heads and cylinders as the previous HD. > Thanks, Your welcome. - don > manney@lrbcg.com > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 23 19:37:44 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980723173744.00e6e500@mail.wa.jps.net> I almost forgot to post about this. I recently acquired a complete Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies and a small printer (OkiData Microline 82, serial), all in excellent condition. I got with it a bunch of manuals and floppies, among them CP/M boot diskettes. As I recall, this is a Z80-based system, yes? Is it possible to use a hard drive on it? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 19:25:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Compaq//safety issues In-Reply-To: <19980723233326.2910.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 23, 98 04:33:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2668 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/8f2bdb2e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 23 19:47:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980723173744.00e6e500@mail.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 23, 98 05:37:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 931 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/8f305115/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jul 23 19:54:29 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: "Daniel A. Seagraves"'s message of Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:32:11 -0700 References: <13374013838.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199807240054.RAA18646@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Daniel A. Seagraves" wrote: > What is one supposed to do with these? Way back when, the drill went like this: (a) dial remote modem's number on phone (as though placing a voice call) (b) listen for remote modem to answer and whistle answer carrier at you (c) put phone's handpiece in acoustic coupler (d) acoustic coupler should notice answer carrier and begin whistling its originate carrier (e) start typing I'm thinking that (d) might take longer these days; I don't know how long it takes these newfangled modems to get around to sending a tone that is recognizable as a Bell 103 answer carrier. It used to be immediate because that's what the modems on the other end tended to try first. -Frank McConnell From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Thu Jul 23 20:07:41 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jul 23, 98 05:28:21 pm" Message-ID: <199807240107.VAA01853@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, PG Manney wrote: > > > I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson > > QX-10 running CP/M. > > > > His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an > > ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB. > The Vertex 185 is also the Priam 185 I think... and it's about 85mb unformatted -- but it had more than 8 heads and I seem to remember most PC's ran it as a 67mb or so... Bill From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Thu Jul 23 20:12:55 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Operation of old modems In-Reply-To: <199807232050.QAA17662@dgs.cs.unc.edu> from Bill Yakowenko at "Jul 23, 98 04:50:24 pm" Message-ID: <199807240112.VAA01937@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > I just picked up an old BellSouth 212A modem, and don't know how to make > it go. It has a handful of pushbuttons on the front (AL ST RL DL HS TLK), > and doesn't respond to the Hayes command set. Am I supposed to dial the > phone myself, and then tell the modem to wake up when I hear the carrier, > like with the old acoustic modems? Any ideas on what those abbreviations > are? I'm guessing HS = "high speed", probably meaning 1200 baud. :-) > And TLK must be "talk". The others have me stumped. Maybe AL is "analog > loopback"?) > > Hints would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Bill. > > > The AT&T Dataphone 212A sets required a dataphone with dial to work. You dialed manually and pushed the data button and the modem would take over and come up with carrier if the remote side answered. It was kind of like dialing and pushing HOLD for the modem to take over. I think there was a hack you could do to use it phone-less dialing from a non-dataphone set. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From william at ans.net Thu Jul 23 20:30:25 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > What is the official meaning of the symbol #? > > Whatever you want it to be. That's why its called a "symbol". The thing actually has an official name, but I doubt many people still use it. Its an "octothorpe"! William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 23 20:52:15 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Another find - Multitech FM-30 Accoustic Coupler. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > By convention, the modem that starts - originates - the call uses the > originate tones. This is not required - it's just a convention. But it > means that cheaper accoustic couplers that were used to dial in to a > central mainframe were often originate only. > > So, try making your modern modem send answer tones. I forget how to do > this using Hayes commands, but I know it's possible. Then try it. ATA will tell the modem to go off-hook and emit a carrier (ie. answer an incoming call). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 23 20:52:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M Message-ID: <199807240152.AA29086@world.std.com> < I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand t < bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems. You could but,... < Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its forma < utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and e < it? Depending on the controller used likely no for the Bad block info and NO for the format. < Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under < MS-DOS? Maybe, it's generally machine/controller specific. Necessary yes. General purpose no. REason for that is like floppy controllers hard disk controler of the era varied from system to system. < What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard dri < Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB? it depends what the controller passes back to the bios and if the bios can even be reconfigured. FYI: CP/M2 disks over 8mb must be partitioned to multiple 8mb (or less) logical drives. The file system can only address 65536 128byte logical sectors and up to 16 logical drives. Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Jul 23 20:51:52 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SW Message-ID: <000301bdb6a5$a36f95a0$a465fea9@mainoffice> More on my Mac Portable... Well, I've found out that the Mac Portable doesn't like the System 6 installer disks that I have, so I downloaded the System 6.0.8 files from Apple. They are in the ".sea.bin" format. What's the best way to get these images to 800k Mac disks from the PC? Also, I need a new 40mb drive, the Conner CP-3045 (aka, the HD40SC). Anyone have one and is willing to part with it? Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 23 21:33:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980723213342.4bd75f3a@intellistar.net> I found a strange looking computer today. It's a Grid 1535 EXP computer and it has a extra pod that clamped on the computer. The pod contains a HP-IB port. There an empty slot to the left of the HP-IB port, what's it for? There's also an empty hole roughly 1 x 2 inches next to the power connector on the laptop. Is that where the battery is supposed to go? I also got a extra battery pack that also clamps to the outside fo the computer. Does any know the specs on this computer? It has a co-axial power connector. What voltage and polarity power does it require? What's the story with the HP-IB port and how do you access it? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 23 21:37:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Info wanted-- IBM 3274 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980723213757.490f826a@intellistar.net> I bought one with a pile of stuff. What is it? Joe From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 23 23:16:01 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980723213342.4bd75f3a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > I found a strange looking computer today. It's a Grid 1535 EXP computer and > it has a extra pod that clamped on the computer. The pod contains a HP-IB > port. There an empty slot to the left of the HP-IB port, what's it for? > There's also an empty hole roughly 1 x 2 inches next to the power connector > on the laptop. Is that where the battery is supposed to go? I also got a > extra battery pack that also clamps to the outside fo the computer. Does > any know the specs on this computer? It has a co-axial power connector. > What voltage and polarity power does it require? What's the story with the > HP-IB port and how do you access it? Wow, it sounds like somebody just lost their GRiD-virginity. John H. took my 1535EXP, so I have to go from memory. It's a 386DX-33 (in a PGA, so you can upgrade it via Cyrix/TI/etc) with up to 8MB RAM (low-profile SIPs). I think it wants 16-18V DC, center neg. The empty hole will accomidate eithe battery or a power supply with an AC plug. The GPIB was probably intended for compatibility with earlier GRiD peripherals, and will be automatically detected by IntegGRiD, a version of GRiD-OS that runs on top of MS-DOS. The connector on the bottom of the machine plugs into a docking tray, which John H. also took and I think was trying to sell last time I checked. (John, are you there?) -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 24 00:06:50 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SW In-Reply-To: <000301bdb6a5$a36f95a0$a465fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: >More on my Mac Portable... > > Well, I've found out that the Mac Portable doesn't like the System 6 >installer disks that I have, so I downloaded the System 6.0.8 files from >Apple. They are in the ".sea.bin" format. What's the best way to get these >images to 800k Mac disks from the PC? Hmmm, have you looked at Executor? It's a Macintosh Emulator that will run on your PC. I used it on a Laptop running Linux a couple years ago to read disks from my PowerBook. They've got versions for both Linux, NeXTstep, and Windows. The demo is only good for 10 minutes, but that will work for copying floppies. The only thing is I'm not sure that it will handle 800k floppies. I know a PC floppy drive can handle the format as my Amiga 3000 with Catweasel controller is using a PC drive. The question is, can the PC controller. There was some talk on just this subject a couple of months ago on the list and there are some other utilities, I just don't remember what. The easiest way to do it would be to find someone with a Mac that's in your area. BTW I'm not sure you can create the floppies on a PPC Mac, it might take a 68k Mac. I had problems with this about a year ago, but I can't remember if I was creating Mac, Apple IIgs, or Lisa floppies. The PPC Mac's do not seem to handle the floppy drive as well as the 68k based ones, I've noticed this with standard Macintosh and PC 1.44Mb floppies. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 24 00:19:01 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > > > What is the official meaning of the symbol #? > > > > Whatever you want it to be. That's why its called a "symbol". > > The thing actually has an official name, but I doubt many people still use > it. Its an "octothorpe"! > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net You mean those little 'prongs' sticking out on the four sides are "thorpes"? How 'bout that! Learn something new every day. :) - don From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Jul 24 00:44:08 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen up for grabs! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980723224408.00e64eb0@mail.wa.jps.net> Well, dang it... I'd hoped to have the RA82 subsystem working before I offered this beastie up, but... I have other projects. Lots of them. Situation: MicroVAX II in a DEC four-foot rack cabinet, two BA23 boxes interconnected with the usual bus expansion cards/cables. Has 8 megs RAM, RQDX3, an RX50 floppy and a TK50 tape drive. Also has a KDA50 SDI controller hitched to an RA82, and an RD53 70 meg HD hitched to the RQDX3. And it has a DHV11 8-line serial MUX. The RA82 passes all its internal tests. The SDI controller passes all its internal tests. HOWEVER -- the RA82 drive cannot be seen by the SDI controller. Not in diags, not through the OS. Zilch. I've replaced cables, tried all three possible floating CSR addresses, changed both SDI boards, and futzed with the drive until I'm blue in the face. Nada. It is my belief that the RA82's interface circuitry is misbehaving, internal tests notwithstanding. I lack another SDI drive to verify things one way or another. So, here's the way its coming down. This beastie is up for grabs as of now. If nothing else, the rack cabinet and cards would probably be useful to someone. I will continue to work with the RA82, and it will go with the system, but I'm not going to put a whole ton of effort into it unless someone on the list comes up with a bright idea. I'm located in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle. Please E-mail me if you're interested and we'll arrange for pickup. NOTE: Unless the recipient is willing to pay for crating and shipping -- and it will take a pallet and lift-gate truck to transport safely -- this is going to be local pickup only. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Jul 24 01:27:33 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 23, 98 10:19:01 pm Message-ID: <199807240627.XAA11221@saul9.u.washington.edu> > > The thing actually has an official name, but I doubt many people still use > > it. Its an "octothorpe"! > You mean those little 'prongs' sticking out on the four sides are > "thorpes"? How 'bout that! Learn something new every day. :) No, the squares framed by the lines are "thorpes." The unmarked square is not a thorpe. 1 | 2 | 3 ---+-----+--- 4 | | 5 ---+-----+--- 6 | 7 | 8 At least, that's the way I understand it. Apparently the symbol was used on maps to denote small villages. Also apparently, the symbol depicts a village surrounded by eight crop fields; this relates to the name ("octo" + "thorpe" = "eight" + "field"). I thought the word "thorpe" (as used in English place- names) referred to the village itself, but I could be wrong. Whatever the story, octothorpe DOES seem to be the official name! -- Derek From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 24 01:43:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807240627.XAA11221@saul9.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > The thing actually has an official name, but I doubt many people still use > > > it. Its an "octothorpe"! > > > You mean those little 'prongs' sticking out on the four sides are > > "thorpes"? How 'bout that! Learn something new every day. :) > > No, the squares framed by the lines are "thorpes." The unmarked square is not > a thorpe. > > 1 | 2 | 3 > ---+-----+--- > 4 | | 5 > ---+-----+--- > 6 | 7 | 8 > > At least, that's the way I understand it. Apparently the symbol was used on > maps to denote small villages. Also apparently, the symbol depicts a village > surrounded by eight crop fields; this relates to the name ("octo" + "thorpe" = > "eight" + "field"). I thought the word "thorpe" (as used in English place- > names) referred to the village itself, but I could be wrong. I looked in my Webster's Collegiate dictionary which contains all the obligatory swear words and racial slurs (so you know its compleat) and it defines "thorp" (note, no 'e' in this dictionary's spelling) as a village or hamlet (archaic). Annoyingly however, this dictionary has "cocksucker" (I swear!) but no "octothorp" so I can't conclude my brief investigation. The End Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Jul 24 02:01:50 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 23, 98 11:43:30 pm Message-ID: <199807240701.AAA30941@saul9.u.washington.edu> > I looked in my Webster's Collegiate dictionary which contains all the > obligatory swear words and racial slurs (so you know its compleat) and it > defines "thorp" (note, no 'e' in this dictionary's spelling) as a village > or hamlet (archaic). We have the Oxford English Dictionary online (nyah -- the OED is basically the ultimate reference on strange English words or word origins, except for new words or slang). It also defines thorp as a village. Interestingly, the word "thorp" seems to be descended from a root that also gave us "tribe". I just thought I'd let you know that. :) This question has come up quite a few times on USENET (on comp.dcom.telecom, among other places). I've seen official-looking documents, but that's not to say I remember them correctly. I'm not even sure I trust them (this may be one of those questions with no completely good answer). The comp.dcom.telecom archives have more info. I'm sure. I forget where they currently live and I'm too lazy to look them up. -- Derek From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 23 01:04:14 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <199807240107.VAA01853@pechter.dyn.ml.org> References: from Don Maslin at "Jul 23, 98 05:28:21 pm" Message-ID: <199807241006.GAA26417@smtp.interlog.com> > > On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, PG Manney wrote: > > > > > I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson > > > QX-10 running CP/M. > > > > > > His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an > > > ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB. > > > > The Vertex 185 is also the Priam 185 I think... and it's about 85mb > unformatted -- but it had more than 8 heads and I seem to remember > most PC's ran it as a 67mb or so... > > Bill > The Que's hdd tables show it with the same specs, 71.0 megs , 1166 cyls, 7 heads , 17 sectors, 128 precomp. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 23 01:04:15 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SW In-Reply-To: <000301bdb6a5$a36f95a0$a465fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <199807241006.GAA26425@smtp.interlog.com> > More on my Mac Portable... > > Well, I've found out that the Mac Portable doesn't like the System 6 > installer disks that I have, so I downloaded the System 6.0.8 files from > Apple. They are in the ".sea.bin" format. What's the best way to get these > images to 800k Mac disks from the PC? > Those $#%&$*^% 800 k disks. There are ways, but I have yet to successfully download and transfer anything to my Mac+ . The earlier Mac FAQ straight out said it couldn't be done. Likely the easiest way is to find some one to do it on his Superdrive to a formatted 800 disk. > Also, I need a new 40mb drive, the Conner CP-3045 (aka, the HD40SC). > Anyone have one and is willing to part with it? > > Thanks. > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 23 01:04:13 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: References: <01bdb695$c142ba40$2128a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <199807241007.GAA26435@smtp.interlog.com> > On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, PG Manney wrote: > > > I have a customer (Yes, Virginia, I have two customers) who has an Epson > > QX-10 running CP/M. > > > > His (external) hard disk is reporting bad sectors; he wishes to switch to an > > ST-506/412 Vertex 185, which I think is 20 MB. > > I find no data for the Vertex 185, but it should have at least as many heads > and cylinders as the disk replaced. That is, unless the CP/M HD format > program is more flexible than most. > According to my Que" UG & R PCs" the Vertex is a 71.0 meg hdd. There's only 4 of them listed, the smallest being mod. V130 at 25.8 megs. I used this chart to recover 10 megs using Spinright for a 32 Miniscribe hdd that had been low-l formatted at 20. The sheet says it has 1166 cyls. , 7 heads , 17 sectors per track , and a Write Precomp of 128. > > I would like to test the Vertex 185 under Spinrite (MS-DOS) and expand the > > bad track table, if Spinrite discovers more problems. > > > > I have questions -- > > > > Will the bad track information carry over under CP/M, and will its format > > utility see the MS-DOS info? Otherwise, should we just make a list and enter > > it? > > I think not. Most CP/M HD format programs that I have run across do not > offer the facility to enter bad block data. After format, run a program > such as FINDBAD.COM, which will identigy bad blocks and mark them as used > in the USER 15 directory. > > > Is there a low-level format utility in CP/M? Is it necessary, as under > > MS-DOS? > > It is all done in a single operation. No separate LL and HL formats. > The entire disk will be filled with sectors full of 0E5H's. > > > What is the QX-10 controller card going to think of a different hard drive? > > Probably, won't note it. > > > Will it try to run the new drive as a 10 MB? > > As I said, unless it is a more flexible than most HD format program, it > will format the same number of heads and cylinders as the previous HD. ??????? > > > Thanks, > > Your welcome. > - don > > manney@lrbcg.com > > Am I missing something here ? Where is the hdd info stored ? If each machine was tied to one size , how are fdds upgraded ? Would a driver for BIOS normally come with each machine or hdd? I'm obviously a neophyte at CP/M and wrestling at this time with a Dec RB which is even more confusing cause it also runs MSDOS. I also have a QX-10 that I will eventually be struggling with when I find an Epson monitor, a KayPro 2X that I still haven't gotten up and running , not to mention the TRS80 m.ll . I've the QX-10 CP/M Primer which is very basic and cutesy like some of the Vic20 manuals. I have a Micro C.Books "CP/M and the Personal Computer" by Dwyer & Critchfieldand , "The Programmers CP/M Handbook" from Osbourne/McGraw-Hill , and the XEROX "CP/M 80 and CP/M 86" manual from DRI. What do you recommend. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Jul 24 07:14:57 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <9806249013.AA901307751@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual > BT tend to call it 'square'. Confused me the first time I heard it. I've not met that, although I have, come to think of it, met "Octothorpe" (I think it was in "Understanding Telephone Electronics"). Ironically, the New Scientist article about digital exchanges (1981?) that called it "hatch" printed it as a square... (FWIW, "-thorpe" is often found as a placename element in the Danelaw - parts of England officially occupied by Vikings before the Norman conquest - and it means village, equivalent to German "Dorf".) > Cutting the extra 2 slots in the cam would be quite easy with a dividing > head (no, I'm not offering to do it, right :-)). The problem is finding > an arrangement of 12 holes in the dial plate that (a) allows you to dial > all of them and (b) maintains the required pause between letting go of the > dial and sending the first pulse (this is part of the spec). You're in danger of making the same mistake as Sam. Remember the pulses only go to my counter chip, not to the exchange, so the pause after letting go of the dial is not essential. That said, it is useful if your finger is shaking as you dial... My idea was to have a moveable finger stop like on some smaller dials. This would normally sit quite close to the 1 position, leaving room for * and # after the zero, but when you dialled against it it would be pushed to its conventional rest position. Philip. PS I'm off on holiday for a week. I won't (intentionally) set the list to Postpone, but I probably won't read all the messages... From jrice at texoma.net Fri Jul 24 06:38:22 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SW References: <199807241006.GAA26425@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35B8722E.AAC0FFE1@texoma.net> The only way I've been able to gwet 800k disks to my mac+ from the web is to write them to dos disks and then transfer using my mac with the superdrive. The pc can't write to a format that the 800k mac drive can read. James Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > More on my Mac Portable... > > > > Well, I've found out that the Mac Portable doesn't like the System 6 > > installer disks that I have, so I downloaded the System 6.0.8 files from > > Apple. They are in the ".sea.bin" format. What's the best way to get these > > images to 800k Mac disks from the PC? > > > Those $#%&$*^% 800 k disks. There are ways, but I have yet to successfully > download and transfer anything to my Mac+ . The earlier Mac FAQ straight out > said it couldn't be done. Likely the easiest way is to find some one to do it > on his Superdrive to a formatted 800 disk. > > > Also, I need a new 40mb drive, the Conner CP-3045 (aka, the > HD40SC). > > Anyone have one and is willing to part with it? > > > > Thanks. > > > ciao larry > lwalker@interlog.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Jul 24 08:00:21 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Info wanted-- IBM 3274 Message-ID: <9806249013.AA901310454@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Joe wrote: > I bought one with a pile of stuff. What is it? I can do little more than repeat the message I sent on the subject a few months ago: John R. Keys Jr. Wrote: > Well today made up for a slow week, got the following items: [...] > IBM 3274-31C with 8" diskettes sofeware I'm sure you'll have fun with all your finds, but this is the one that caught my eye. Last week (?) someone was asking questions along the lines of what the heck does one do with an IBM 3278? The answer is, plug it into this. Neither is much use without the other! I suggest the two of you get together over this... The 3274 is called a "terminal controller". It is not per se a computer, although I think it may have had microprocessors and things in it. The floppy drives were for saving and loading configuration data (along the lines of Port 1 a 3278, port 2 is a 3299 with 8 3278s hung off it, port 3 is a printer etc...) It multiplexes terminals and things to an IBM mainframe channel. While the 3278 and its relatives use the IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an ordinary serial line. In which case all you need to do is write drivers for whatever machine you choose as the host... Happy hacking! Philip. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 24 08:00:59 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Info wanted-- IBM 3274 Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-24 07:59:41 EDT, you write: I guess the 3274 could be called a computer here. it will process information and if it can do something, it will take care of simple local tasks itself rather than bothering the mainframe with things the 3274 could do itself. << The 3274 is called a "terminal controller". It is not per se a computer, although I think it may have had microprocessors and things in it. The floppy drives were for saving and loading configuration data (along the lines of Port 1 a 3278, port 2 is a 3299 with 8 3278s hung off it, port 3 is a printer etc...) It multiplexes terminals and things to an IBM mainframe channel. While the 3278 and its relatives use the IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an ordinary serial line. In which case all you need to do is write drivers for whatever machine you choose as the host... >> From tomowad at earthlink.net Fri Jul 24 08:34:17 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SW Message-ID: <199807241334.GAA10420@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > Those $#%&$*^% 800 k disks. There are ways, but I have yet to successfully >download and transfer anything to my Mac+ . The earlier Mac FAQ straight out >said it couldn't be done. Likely the easiest way is to find some one to do >it >on his Superdrive to a formatted 800 disk. Or you could just buy a Mac IIsi or similiar for around $50 and do it yourself. >The easiest way to do it would be to find someone with a Mac that's in your >area. BTW I'm not sure you can create the floppies on a PPC Mac, it might >take a 68k Mac. I had problems with this about a year ago, but I can't >remember if I was creating Mac, Apple IIgs, or Lisa floppies. The PPC >Mac's do not seem to handle the floppy drive as well as the 68k based ones, >I've noticed this with standard Macintosh and PC 1.44Mb floppies. I haven't had any trouble making 800k disks on my PM 6100. I did have trouble making a System 0.9 disk on 400k, though (not sure if that's the PM or the Mac Plus I was trying to run it on, though). Sincerely, Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Jul 24 11:03:43 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: <7107@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807241408.JAA31367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 01:47 AM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> I almost forgot to post about this. I recently acquired a complete >> Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies and a small printer (OkiData >> Microline 82, serial), all in excellent condition. >> >> I got with it a bunch of manuals and floppies, among them CP/M boot >> diskettes. As I recall, this is a Z80-based system, yes? Is it possible to > >It's roughly the same thing as a Zenith Z90. I have the manual here (it >claims to be a user manual, but it contains schematics, PCB layouts, >theory of operation, etc). It's a Z80-based machine with 48K or 64K RAM, >3 serial ports as standard (+ the one for the built-in Z19 terminal), and >a variety of disk controllers. Keep in mind, these things were in vogue back in the days when the *users* actually *expected* to get the schematics! My how times have changed . . . >> use a hard drive on it? > >I believe there was a hard disk for it. I don't have one, and don't have >any info on it. > >I believe you could use the following disk units : > >Z17 (hard sector 5.25") >Z37 (soft sector 5.25") >Z47 (8") >Z67 (hard disk). The Z-67 is a rare item indeed. I missed one in 1988. That's the last time I ever saw one offered for sale (and it was *just the interface*). I don't know anybody running one of these . . . My Z-89 dosen't run anymore. Too many years of disuse, I guess. Jeff > > > >-tony > From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Jul 24 09:43:32 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:28 2005 Subject: FW: WANTED: PDP-11 or PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <35B82E1E.E7E6755C@ricochet.net> References: <35B82E1E.E7E6755C@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <35bb9d34.647894903@smtp.wa.jps.net> Can anyone give Seth a good push in the right direction? If so, give him a buzz. SPECIAL NOTE: John, if you're looking to clear out space in the form of your PDP-11/34, this could be a great opportunity. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On 24 Jul 1998 02:51:10 EDT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "Seth J. Morabito" >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: WANTED: PDP-11 or PDP-8 >>Date: 24 Jul 1998 02:51:10 EDT >>Organization: Loom Communications >>Lines: 18 >>Message-ID: <35B82E1E.E7E6755C@ricochet.net> >>Reply-To: sethm@loomcom.com >>NNTP-Posting-Host: motherbrain.squeep.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.35 i586) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.inconnect.com!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master >>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:2231 comp.sys.dec.micro:262 >> >>Hello folks, >> >>I would dearly love to find a pdp-11 (preferably with some sort of >>secondary storage, including RX01,RX02,RK05,RL02, or RD53) or, much more >>preferably, a pdp-8 (original 8, 8i, or 8e), somewhere convenient to >>the San Francisco Bay Area, California. Software and manuals are, >>of course, always welcome! >> >>Surely, someone must be getting ready to de-commission a system which >>has served its purpose and is no longer needed? I would love to take >>it off your hands! I preserve and restore old systems, both for the >>memories and for the enjoyment of it. DEC has always been my favorite, >>for sentimental reasons. And I can't bear the thought of any of that >>classic equipment going to scrap. >> >>Thank you, >> >>-Seth Morabito -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Jul 24 09:47:11 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <35B84722.2B9BEDA0@hotmail.com> References: <35B84722.2B9BEDA0@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35bd9dec.648078557@smtp.wa.jps.net> Well, folks, here's an opportunity to let it be known that doing a decent job doesn't always require the latest P-II! This fellow's looking for quotes from folks who use 'legacy' equipment in production environments. Unfortunately, he's not interested in hardware hack type stories. I kind of dislike his statement of 'if it takes a soldering iron, it's too complex for this article,' but hey, who knows? Enjoy. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:34:44 +0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: >>From: Bill Kent >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>Subject: Writer wants to quote users >>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:34:44 +0800 >>Organization: None to speak of >>Lines: 20 >>Message-ID: <35B84722.2B9BEDA0@hotmail.com> >>Reply-To: billakent@hotmail.com >>NNTP-Posting-Host: spoff76.pacific.net.sg >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!diablo.quiknet.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!priori!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!newsserver.pacific.net.sg!not-for-mail >> >>Good Day, >> >>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online >>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might consider >>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use >>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about in >>business, education, or home. If you use them as servers or something >>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in >>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a >>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article. >> >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied to a >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be >>positive, but if anyone has any good stories about failures which >>occurred because you can't do EVERYTHING with older technology. >> >>mailto:billakent@hotmail.com >> >>Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 24 10:14:43 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Info wanted-- IBM 3274 In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jul 24, 98 09:00:59 am Message-ID: <199807241514.LAA02298@user2.infinet.com> > > In a message dated 98-07-24 07:59:41 EDT, you write: > I guess the 3274 could be called a computer here. it will process information > and if it can do something, it will take care of simple local tasks itself > rather than bothering the mainframe with things the 3274 could do itself. Practically speaking, though, it's as much a computer as an Adaptec ISA SCSI board. True, both do have firmware and to have some sort of processor, technically making them a computer, the computer part is so embedded as to vanish from sight. > The 3274 is called a "terminal controller"... And is a PU Type 2 (Physical Unit) in SNA parlance (as opposed to a Front End Processor (FEP), a PU Type 4, or a CPU itself, a PU Type 5). All have their own little dance to do in the grand scheme of things on an SNA network. > ...the 3278 and its relatives use the > IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an > ordinary serial line. First of all, only the voltages are ordinary (-/+12). It's going to be SYNCHRONOUS serial, meaning that the data clocks are on pins 15 and 17, with NO start bits, NO parity bits, NO stop bits, just 8-bit bytes, one after the other. SYNC comms get better throughput than ASYNC for this reason (8-bits vs 10-bits per byte). The Z8530 SCC chip can be made to do SDLC SYNC I/O. We used it on our SNA products. > ...In which case all you need to do is write drivers > for whatever machine you choose as the host... I used to make and sell HASP/3780/SNA boards for VAXen (I still have a bunch). I am here to tell you that while it _can_ be done, it's a major, major undertaking. Making 68000 boards that simulated a PU Type 2 (3274) was a significant commercial endeavor, 10 years ago. I worked on the guts of the code, on the application end, the device driver, all of it. I would _never_ consider re-implementing SNA as a non-paying project. In effect, your "drivers" would have to emulate a 37x5 FEP sufficiently enough to fool real Blue hardware. We had these HP line analyzers, I forget the number, with a 40-column screen and TU-58-sized tape drive. In addition to tracing traffic, you could write programs (subject to severe memory limitations) that could listen for some stuff on the line, respond appropriately and simulate portions of the data stream. We had one program that took two of us to write and debug that could lead a PU Type 4 (ours and a portable terminal called an Informer) through the login process, and that was about it. A connection and one data packet. With a better protocol engine (to properly keep track of RR numbers), it might have been possible to do more, but we maxed out the HP box. Let's put it this way, I'd put writing a driver (assuming you had a compatible SYNC serial port) to talk to a real 3274 and then to terminals, at least as complex as writing an implementation of PPP from scratch, possibly with TCP/IP thrown in on top, just to make it a little harder. SNA is extremely non-trivial. Just because it's classic, don't make it simple. OTOH, the 3274 is a nice, *portable* piece of commonly used Blue Iron that would make a fine addition to any collection. _Using_ it is a different matter entirely. -ethan From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 10:39:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807241539.AA01231@world.std.com> < >>From: Bill Kent < >>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online < >>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might conside < >>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use < >>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about i What about non-PC technology? There are whole families of machines that are not based on Intel cpus and Microsoft software. Like the Kaypro 4/84 (ca 1984) that I use to run my billings on. The NS* Horzion Z80 machine I built in 1978 to support z80 family development and continuation support. That system is my primary for documenting work done as well. I have a PDP-11/73 for development and continuation support use. Also very handy for getting from Digital Equipment Corp designed and propritary media to other more common use media. DEC VAX hardware is also widely sought as they despite age and relative speed are still workhorses for multiuser/multitasking applications. Most of the more popular VAX systems that are over 10 years old are PC sized but can support a lot of users. I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink). < >>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in < >>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a < >>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article. All people that modify "hack" machines are not all hobbiests. As a professional I need for various reasons to read disks created years ago sometimes really old like the 8" media from the late 70s early 80s. I have old machines to do this but a handy one is an XT clone using a modified floppy controller with and old 8" drive. You cannot buy that capability now but, companies have archives that are sometimes very old that may need to be accessed. Even your common P-II box is hard pressed to read older 5.25" format floppies! At a minimum you would have to find an apporiate drive and then by trial and error figure the jumpers out as new machines a scantily documented at best. < >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied to < >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be In computers old technology and new are often only different in speed or size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the 80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+ years. This doesn't include the tens of thousands of Z80, 6502, 6800 microprocessors in control boxes and other service since the parts were introduced in the late 70s! I'll introduce you to an idea new to some. I prefer to use older systems that are well documented and I can fully utilize. It's saves me time to not debug some new box or software. Simply said: Mature stable systems we know how to use. Allison From william at ans.net Fri Jul 24 11:01:36 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs Message-ID: I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home, otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will be considered. Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor is (lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for an RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a board with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A). William Donzelli william@ans.net From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 24 11:28:20 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Systems coming up for sale! Message-ID: <199807241628.MAA11889@charity.harvard.net> Well, I figured since my glomming on to one of these systems is pretty much guaranteed, I'd let the rest of you know about them. My father is one of the managers of the FAA Data Center in Seattle, WA. He is excessing 12 Data General MV/15000 systems. As far as I can tell, the systems include: 3 Disk Units 1 RtR 9 Track Tape Unit 1 MPU Unit 1 Console Unit Mind you, this is a lot of steel to move (I'm prolly going to have a moving company bring me mine) not to mention store (I'm going to be moving my entire collection to some cheap office space here in Lawrence, MA). For those of you who dont know what the excess process is, this is the way I understand it. 1. Government agency decides they dont need something anymore (done) 2. Agency begins porting any applications on system (a month to go) 3. Agency offers system to all other government agencies 4. If all other agencies refuse system, system goes to public sale. According to my father, these systems will be going for a ridiculous price (like $200-$300, I'm getting mine fer free :) but the buyer needs to arrange shipping. Mind you, the data centers are all over the US, not just in Seattle so it is possible that one will be closer geographically to you. I'll post another message to the list when the systems are closer to public sale. Tony Dellett -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/7d709db9/attachment.bin From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 24 11:40:22 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: WANTED: PDP-11 or PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <35bb9d34.647894903@smtp.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 24, 98 02:43:32 pm Message-ID: <199807241640.JAA10692@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 277 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/bda1f023/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Fri Jul 24 11:59:55 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ST506 & RD54 Message-ID: <19980724164601.AAA11534@emusp6> Hi all, Where on the net, i could find the ST506 specification, or something like a RD54 OEM-Manual ? thanks, emanuel From peacock at simconv.com Fri Jul 24 12:10:18 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ST506 & RD54 Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E9@mail.simconv.com> An RD54 is an oem version of the Maxtor 2190 disk drive. You might have better luck looking for specs on that drive. AFAIK it is identical to the RD54 except for the label DEC puts on it. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com] Sent: Friday, July 24, 1998 10:00 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: ST506 & RD54 Hi all, Where on the net, i could find the ST506 specification, or something like a RD54 OEM-Manual ? thanks, emanuel From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 24 13:28:39 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807240627.XAA11221@saul9.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > The thing actually has an official name, but I doubt many people still use > > > it. Its an "octothorpe"! > > > You mean those little 'prongs' sticking out on the four sides are > > "thorpes"? How 'bout that! Learn something new every day. :) > > No, the squares framed by the lines are "thorpes." The unmarked square is not > a thorpe. > > 1 | 2 | 3 > ---+-----+--- > 4 | | 5 > ---+-----+--- > 6 | 7 | 8 > > At least, that's the way I understand it. Apparently the symbol was used on > maps to denote small villages. Also apparently, the symbol depicts a village > surrounded by eight crop fields; this relates to the name ("octo" + "thorpe" = > "eight" + "field"). I thought the word "thorpe" (as used in English place- > names) referred to the village itself, but I could be wrong. > > Whatever the story, octothorpe DOES seem to be the official name! > > -- Derek Now that is fascinating. Really! - don From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Fri Jul 24 15:27:05 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > ...recently acquired a complete Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies > >and a small printer (OkiData > > It's roughly the same thing as a Zenith Z90. I have the manual here (it If that's the one I'm thinking of, they started out as VT52 terminal clones, sold by Heath/Zenith. The on-board personal computer was an afterthought, I think. Former employer had a bunch. You may be able to tap directly into the terminal portion if you have need for a plain old VT52. -Wayne From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:50:53 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980724205054.12703.qmail@hotmail.com> What do you use now? >Like the Kaypro 4/84 (ca 1984) that I use to run my billings on. In general, I hope everyone that prides themselves of running Electric Pencil on their Altairs is doing it for practical purposes, and not because they just want to show off that they won't use a PC. > >I have a PDP-11/73 for development and continuation support use. Also >very handy for getting from Digital Equipment Corp designed and >propritary media to other more common use media. > A server for what? You must have an Interlnk client if you are using Intersrvr, unless you hacked the protocol... > >I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr >and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink). I would bet that _most_ hackers do it for commercial/industrial reasons. FOr everyone who built their own z80, hundreds came off the assembly line. > >All people that modify "hack" machines are not all hobbiests. As a >professional I need for various reasons to read disks created years >ago sometimes really old like the 8" media from the late 70s early 80s. >I have old machines to do this but a handy one is an XT clone using a >modified floppy controller with and old 8" drive. You cannot buy that >capability now but, companies have archives that are sometimes very old >that may need to be accessed. > >Even your common P-II box is hard pressed to read older 5.25" format >floppies! At a minimum you would have to find an apporiate drive and >then by trial and error figure the jumpers out as new machines a scantily >documented at best. That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in. What other difference can there be? >In computers old technology and new are often only different in speed or >size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the >80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems >where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+ years. I agree with that. It's impressive how many people think Windows NT is a safer option than UNIXoids though NT is only 1/3 as old... > Mature stable systems we know how to use. > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 24 15:56:57 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <199807241007.GAA26435@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: **** snip **** > Am I missing something here ? Where is the hdd info stored ? In the case of the Kaypro 10, it is defined in the EPROM. Others, I suspect, store it in the BIOS. > If each machine was tied to one size , how are fdds upgraded ? Would a driver > for BIOS normally come with each machine or hdd? Rather than a driver, you would need to patch the BIOS. > I'm obviously a neophyte at CP/M and wrestling at this time with a Dec RB > which is even more confusing cause it also runs MSDOS. The Rainbow is a unique case because of its dual processors. > I also have a QX-10 that > I will eventually be struggling with when I find an Epson monitor, a KayPro 2X > that I still haven't gotten up and running , not to mention the TRS80 m.ll . > I've the QX-10 CP/M Primer which is very basic and cutesy like some of the > Vic20 manuals. I have a Micro C.Books "CP/M and the Personal Computer" by Dwyer > & Critchfieldand , "The Programmers CP/M Handbook" from Osbourne/McGraw-Hill , > and the XEROX "CP/M 80 and CP/M 86" manual from DRI. What do you recommend. I am familiar with only "The Programmers CP/M Handbook", but I would guess that each will supplement areas that are weak in one or more of the others. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:57:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <19980724205710.2765.qmail@hotmail.com> Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card. What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3 various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 24 16:04:03 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: New apple additions. Message-ID: since i requested today off, i hit the thrift stores since i havent been able to recently. i found a complete TI professional but left it as i presume it's just an xt clone. found a //c drive in the box, but at $10, i left it. i did get: copy 2+ version 9 complete quark catalyst with disks prodos inside and out w/ disk beagle graphics +disk something called talk is cheap ver 3.1 w/ disk beagle bros pronto dos/disk bb triple dump /disk a book called the dostalk scrapbook which explains apple dos 3.3 epson printer interface for apple //c apple //c tech ref. also got a nice pc tower case for $2 after i exclaimed it was blank and nothing inside. lol. there were a few more apple manuals and some beagle brothers software called timeout-something or other, but i left that. might go back again. david From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 16:19:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ST506 & RD54 Message-ID: <199807242119.AA28847@world.std.com> < Where on the net, i could find the ST506 specification, or something lik < RD54 OEM-Manual ? RD54 is a MAXTOR 2190, so try them. RD53 is micropolus 1325 rd52 is Quantum D540 RD32 is seagate ST251 rd31 is seagate st225 rd51 is seagate st412 rd50 is sugart/seagate st506 Allison From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Jul 24 16:42:38 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M Message-ID: <011a01bdb74b$fbc71380$af27a2ce@cgregory> -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 5:56 PM Subject: Re: Epson QX-10, CP/M I have a complete (I think) set of manuals for the QX-10, so I will offer to be a source for looking up material and/or copying parts/pages. >> I'm obviously a neophyte at CP/M and wrestling at this time with a Dec RB >> which is even more confusing cause it also runs MSDOS. > >The Rainbow is a unique case because of its dual processors. > In addition I have QX-10's big brother, the QX-16 which is also a dual processor machine. Kind of neat being able to boot into either MSDOS or C/PM. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 17:08:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 Message-ID: <199807242208.AA08389@world.std.com> < From: Wayne Cox ^^^^^^^^^^ Wayne, you fly? < > It's roughly the same thing as a Zenith Z90. I have the manual here (i < < If that's the one I'm thinking of, they started out as VT52 terminal < clones, sold by Heath/Zenith. The on-board personal computer was an < afterthought, I think. Former employer had a bunch. You may be able to < tap directly into the terminal portion if you have need for a plain old < VT52. yes it started as H19 terminal, the terminal board is separate from the H8x/Z9x computer board. It makes a good VT52/ansi terminal. I know I bought one back in the summer of '79 (H19 hit that is). Still have it and it still works. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 17:08:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807242208.AA08557@world.std.com> < In general, I hope everyone that prides themselves of running < Electric Pencil on their Altairs is doing it for practical purposes, < and not because they just want to show off that they won't use < a PC. While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro. < A server for what? You must have an Interlnk client if you are using < Intersrvr, unless you hacked the protocol... < > < >I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr < >and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink). I do, did you misread? < I would bet that _most_ hackers do it for commercial/industrial < reasons. FOr everyone who built their own z80, hundreds came off the < assembly line. And hundreds more were modified. Very few were built from the ground up but, many were built from an intermediate state. IE: buy a s100 z80 cpu from company A, ram from B, floppy controller from n, floppy from S and a box from a supplier of nothing but boxes... that constitues a built z80 system circa 1980ish. < >documented at best. < That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a < rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in. Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT plug into on the PCI only board? < >size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the < >80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems < >where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+ < years. < < I agree with that. It's impressive how many people think Windows NT < is a safer option than UNIXoids though NT is only 1/3 as old... Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 24 17:18:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <19980724205710.2765.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch > of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card. > What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3 > various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a > PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it > with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks. Transfer them over a serial link to the PC. You'll need an apple comm program of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 24 17:29:44 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Z-67 was Re: Rescued: Heath H89 References: <199807241408.JAA31367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <35B90AD8.B261A5C7@rain.org> Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > The Z-67 is a rare item indeed. I missed one in 1988. That's the > last time > I ever saw one offered for sale (and it was *just the interface*). I > don't > know anybody running one of these . . . > > My Z-89 dosen't run anymore. Too many years of disuse, I guess. I would dearly love to get my hands on the schematics for the Z-67 unit. I have a non-working unit containing both the HD and 8" floppy. I've probably had it for 10 years or so, and I *think* it came with the working system unit, but I have never been able to get the Z-67 up and running . When I started checking it out, it seems to me that the P/S unit was giving problems. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 24 17:43:09 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Apple ][ file conversion" (Jul 24, 13:57) References: <19980724205710.2765.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9807242343.ZM18820@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 24, 13:57, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Apple ][ file conversion > Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch > of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card. > What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3 > various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a > PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it > with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks. Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs can't read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80 (for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I do. Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC Kermit80 has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp from ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of several mirror sites. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 12:50:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806249013.AA901307751@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 24, 98 12:14:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1027 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/ccc05090/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 17:48:07 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980724224808.10422.qmail@hotmail.com> I assume you mean the apps. CP/M and DOS are fairly similar >While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do >faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro. > I don't know >I do, did you misread? > Why do you need an 8" controller? The same floppy controller can be used for both 5.25" and 3.5". There never were any jumpers for any MFM drives, nor have I seen much for IDE drives. This has nothing to do with PCI or PnP. Just set the correct type in the BIOS and that's it >Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What >do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT >plug into on the PCI only board? In fact, I am not familiar with any real difference between PCI and ISA controllers. I have never had any floppy problems. The reason why I said 'if you can plug one in' is because the 5.25" drives use edge connectors, unlike 3.5" which use BERG strips (is that what they're called?). This is the biggest problem one is likely to have. > >Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they >have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long >since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing >steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't >matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 13:13:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <35bd9dec.648078557@smtp.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 24, 98 02:47:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/17734df2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 16:52:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jul 24, 98 12:01:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2012 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/2ab2ad0f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 16:55:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: <199807241408.JAA31367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Jul 24, 98 09:03:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 941 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/3711743e/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 17:50:45 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <19980724225045.14900.qmail@hotmail.com> Can I make use of the Centronics interface? What type of 'serial car' do you recommend? Can I use my Apple //c w/serial port but w/o CP/M? >Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs can't >read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way >would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80 >(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I do. > >Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that >doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC Kermit80 >has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp from >ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of >several mirror sites. > > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 18:01:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980724230140.14468.qmail@hotmail.com> Of course, this is a bit of a problem for people like me, who are too young for an IMSAI, never mind a PDP8 >I've used - and repaired - a lot of embedded control systems using >machines like the PDP11, PDP8, Data General Nova, etc. These machines >work as well today as they did 25 years ago when they were made, they >still do the same job running the same software. There is simply no >reason to replace a reliable, documented solution with a modern >undocumented one. > It's not quite the same. All PC components are third-party and thus there is no guarantee it will work quite right. Are the well-documented IBM PC, XT, and AT machines better in this sense? Since you have the manuals, you could probably build your own MDA card! >Contrast that to the modern PC. If it fails, you swap boards until it >works again, never really knowing that you've found the fault. And you >don't know that the new video card (say) won't behave slightly >differently to the old one. Seen it happen far to often to want to depend >on such a machine. > >Problem is, I'm an electronic engineer. So I tend to use computers - >including old ones - to help with that work. And I'm not afraid of taking >a soldering iron to them. > >Case in point. 10 minutes ago I needed to examine the contents of a ROM >chip - an obscure old ROM chip - from a word processing system I'm >repairing. I've got a special card in an old IBM XT that'll do that. Not >hardware hacking per se, though - just a homemade tool to help with my work. > >> >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied to a >> >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be >> >>positive, but if anyone has any good stories about failures which >> >>occurred because you can't do EVERYTHING with older technology. > >That is _very_ uncommon. A lot of old machines are in embedded control >systems, which have been running the same program since they were made. >They don't stop running it properly just because a new machine has come >on the market... > >And anyway, CPU speed is often needed (for mainstream applications) only >to support the user interface. I personally have formatted and printed a >200 page manual using TeX/LaTeX on a 386 PC. A 286 would probably have >done it just as well. TeX may not be user friendly for the new user, but >it certainly is friendly to the experienced user who wants a text >formatter that doesn't get in the way. > > >> >> >> >>mailto:billakent@hotmail.com > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 24 13:53:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980724135335.499f7de2@intellistar.net> At 12:01 PM 7/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home, >otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will be >considered. > >Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor >is Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC. Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST IBM PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all working. Most of them are looking for homes. Hint, hint! (lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of >which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for an >RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a board >with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery >board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A). The 45641 is an optional 3278 Emulation board. It costs $1200 in the '88 HP catalog. If no one wants the boards, I'll take them for the cost of shipping. Joe > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > > From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Jul 24 18:23:10 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: CBM Diagnostic cart. Message-ID: <000b01bdb75a$075fcb20$6ac1fea9@mainoffice> I just got a funny cartridge for the early Commodore PC-10 and PC-20 series computers. There 2 connectors, one plugs into the modem port and the other into the printer port. Then power up the machine and a 2 digit alpha/numeric HEX LED displays the problem. Commodore #380025-01. Anyone have any info on this? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 19:15:45 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ST506 & RD54 Message-ID: <199807250015.AA05912@world.std.com> RD54 specs... Typical formatted capacity 159mb unformatted capacity 191mb drive height full average access time 38.3ms maximum transfer rate 625kb/s power consumption 24w amperes drawn @ 5vdc 1.29 amperes drawn @ 12vdc 1.34 number of rw heads 15 number of cylinders 1224 positioner type dedicated servo Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 19:17:49 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: WANTED: PDP-11 or PDP-8 Message-ID: <199807250017.AA06852@world.std.com> >> Can anyone give Seth a good push in the right direction? If so, >> give him a buzz. >I posted this on Usenet specifically so everyone here on 'classiccmp' >could stop being sick of my "I want a PDP!" whining ;) > >Oh well, I'll take what publicity I can get, eh? Heck, you're not the only one who wants an -8... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 24 19:26:04 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination In-Reply-To: <199807250017.AA06852@world.std.com> Message-ID: I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card into my IMSAI? -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 17:54:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Jul 24, 98 04:27:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1288 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980724/78cf8e4d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 18:08:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <011a01bdb74b$fbc71380$af27a2ce@cgregory> from "Cliff Gregory" at Jul 24, 98 05:42:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/cd5f3988/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 18:14:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Z-67 was Re: Rescued: Heath H89 In-Reply-To: <35B90AD8.B261A5C7@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Jul 24, 98 03:29:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/b0f88b84/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 18:23:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <19980724224808.10422.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 24, 98 03:48:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/bcc63883/attachment.ksh From rexstout at uswest.net Fri Jul 24 00:30:58 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ID cute HP terminal Message-ID: Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred other numbers on the bottom... Anyways, it's a very interesting model. Works fine, has two DB-25 ports(modem and printer, both serial?) and an HP-IB port, and uses two small batteries that look like N size or close to that. And a cute keyboard, lotso keys but very small. Anyways... Does anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find anything on HP's web site, and nothing showed up immediatley on web searches. What kind of terminal is it? Are the ports normal RS-232? What does the HP-IB port do, and how do I access it? So many questions... Too bad there was no manual. But then what do you expect for $5? At least I got a keyboard... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 19:42:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs Message-ID: <19980725004222.29386.qmail@hotmail.com> What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what? Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC? >>I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home, >>otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will be >>considered. >> >>Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor >>is > > Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC. >Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST IBM >PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all >working. Most of them are looking for homes. Hint, hint! > >(lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of >>which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for an >>RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a board >>with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery >>board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A). > > The 45641 is an optional 3278 Emulation board. It costs $1200 in the '88 >HP catalog. > > If no one wants the boards, I'll take them for the cost of shipping. > > Joe >> >>William Donzelli >>william@ans.net >> >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 24 19:50:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: ID cute HP terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, John Rollins wrote: > Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 19:33:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980724135335.499f7de2@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 24, 98 01:53:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/4052b03e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 24 19:42:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <19980724230140.14468.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 24, 98 04:01:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1608 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/e5fee2ed/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 24 20:02:04 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980725010205.29210.qmail@hotmail.com> >Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:23:07 +0100 (BST) So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives? > >For reading 8" disks, of course. My PC/XT on the desk here has 2 each of >360K 5.25" drives, 720K 3.5" drives and 1.1Mbyte 8" drives (double sided, >double density, 77 track). Pity the controller I've got has problems with >single-density operation. I really must fix that sometime, but it's not >urgent, as my PERQ has a much nicer floppy system... For once, I used the correct terminology :) Compared to SCSI, all IDE controllers and most non-IDE/SCSI MFM drives require very little configuration. That's what I meant. >What? ST506 drives (I assume that's what you mean - MFM is an encoding >system, not a controller interface) have drive select jumpers at least. >And often other ones. > >And the original IBM XT hard disk controller (later version only?) has a >set of jumpers to select the drive type. I believe you can solder a DIP >switch in place of them if you want. > So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks? Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out. >I've seen some controllers that can't correctly handle the 300kbps data >rate (produced by putting a 360K disk in a 1.2Mbyte drive turning at >360rpm). Of course the so-called manuals don't mention this anywhere, but >it was obvious from a logic analyser on the Write Data pin during >formatting that it was actually using 250kbps. > Where can the connectors be gotten cheaply? I've seen them for a couple of bucks each. I really ought to perform some maintenance. Is there anything I need to know, or can I just snap those connectors on and trim the cable? >That problem is trivial to solve if you can crimp IDC connectors. Why do >people persist in refusing to modify PC parts - even cables? > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Jul 24 20:08:46 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980724180116.46b77c1a@ricochet.net> At 02:47 PM 7/24/98 GMT, you wrote: >>>From: Bill Kent >>>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online >>>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might consider >>>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use >>>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about in >>>business, education, or home. If you use them as servers or something >>>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in >>>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a >>>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article. Well, let's see. I use a Radio Shack model 100 (like many people) for taking notes/writing away from home. Once I get my Starlet fixed, I'll be doing the same with that (CP/M laptop, with Wordstar in ROM). I also have an Outbound notebook (mac clone laptop ca. 1990) that I and my girlfriend use. She (Rachel Grilley, ) also uses older macs in her classroom to teach her first graders reading, math, science, etc. They range from plusses to IIci's. My voicemail system is currently running on a 286/512K/40mb system, but is about to be upgraded Real Soon Now to a shoebox-sized 386sx system I picked up recently at a surplus place. (Same VM card/software, just different computer -- actually can run on an 8088 even.) I have an Atari Portfolio (8088, DOS, size of a video tape) that I carry around for taking notes. I also use my Atari ST's and Falcons for music sequencing/recording. (Well, not as much as I like, but once I win the lottery...) I can also put you in touch with a lot of people who are using their ST's a lot. And lastly, my main machine is a 486 laptop, but I have written a DOS-based application to manage the San Francisco Free List (see for more info) including maintaining the database of events, building daily and monthly web pages, and generating weekly event listings. Eventually, I'll probably move that onto a different DOS-based laptop so others can assist in maintaining the events database. Anyway, feel free to drop me a note about any of the above (or anyhthing else, for that matter). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 20:26:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807250126.AA11300@world.std.com> < I assume you mean the apps. CP/M and DOS are fairly similar Similar yes, processors are very different. Z80 code will not run on a PC (without an emulator) and PC software is useless to cp/m z80. < Why do you need an 8" controller? The same floppy controller can be < used for both 5.25" and 3.5". There never were any jumpers for any Why is the sky blue. If I need to read a 8" of course. < In fact, I am not familiar with any real difference between PCI and < ISA controllers. I have never had any floppy problems. The reason Huge differce. also the Floppy controller is on the MB for most current generation P-II PCs. < edge connectors, unlike 3.5" which use BERG strips (is that what < they're called?). This is the biggest problem one is likely to have. Trivial problem. the cables have both. The real problem is when the software goes to work or out to lunch. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 20:27:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <199807250127.AA11421@world.std.com> < Can I make use of the Centronics interface? Yes with any current printer just like a PC, though the connector may be different. Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs < can't < >read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest wa < >would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit8 < >(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I or MDM, or one of a dozen others for each OS. < >Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that < >doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC < Kermit80 < >has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp < from < >ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of < >several mirror sites. Kermit is well known and supported by most PC transfer programs. Max, get an editor. Either that or don't use LYNX for mail, try elm or pine. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 24 20:27:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807250127.AA11642@world.std.com> < Of course, this is a bit of a problem for people like me, who are too < young for an IMSAI, never mind a PDP8 How is this a problem? You learned how to run a PC, programming a PDP-8 is at least an order of magnitude simpler. Seriously, the instruction set and archetecture is so simple it's downright inviting. The DG Novas are pretty straight forward too. The old machines didn't have to be huge, complex or networked. They only had to work. Allison From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 24 20:42:18 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:29 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 484 References: <199807230702.AAA25296@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35B937FA.25AC088F@goldrush.com> > From: "Sie Raybould" > Subject: WTB: Jupiter Ace > > Anyone got a Jupiter Ace they'd be prepared to part with ? > > Sie I just was reading in a book about a sinclair ROM replacement for FORTH that sounds alot like the Jupiter Ace's features. Multi-task up to four programs, etc. It was referred to the "FORTH in ROM by David Husband". Hope that helps any. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 24 20:37:14 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: CBM Diagnostic cart. In-Reply-To: <000b01bdb75a$075fcb20$6ac1fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 24, 98 07:23:10 pm Message-ID: <199807250137.VAA10711@user2.infinet.com> > > > I just got a funny cartridge for the early Commodore PC-10 and PC-20 series > computers. There 2 connectors, one plugs into the modem port and the other > into the printer port. Then power up the machine and a 2 digit alpha/numeric > HEX LED displays the problem. Commodore #380025-01. Yup. > Anyone have any info on this? I have an original in a box with the manual. I'll write it up the next time I run across it. -ethan From tomowad at earthlink.net Fri Jul 24 20:41:26 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <199807250141.SAA27398@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi guys, I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could tell. They're all appear to be brand new and are in the original boxes. The box is labeled "P/N 2684220", the Power supply "P/N 2684292". Output is 15v, 2.7A. Anybody know what they're for? And if anybody wants one, the price is $5 shipped, each. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 24 20:56:44 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: PETs to Rescue in Alberta! References: <199807240702.AAA22039@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35B93B5C.22FB4E8B@goldrush.com> Here is a message that I received today, I forward it to all you fellow Commodore enthusiasts, if you are interested in some nice PET stuff (keep me in mind for PET books and software, will ya?) > Subject: PET disposal > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:05:38 -0600 > From: Sjoerd Schaafsma > Reply-To: rocklake@agt.net >Organization: University of Lethbridge > To: foxnhare@goldrush.com > > HI Larry, > > I'm in Lethbridge Alberta, and would like to dispose of a few PETs, > 4032, 8032, and disk drives, I just can't bring myself to junk 'em. > Know of any interested parties? > > -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jul 24 20:43:56 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin"'s message of Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:42:21 PDT References: <19980725004222.29386.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807250143.SAA05932@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Max Eskin" wrote: > What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what? > Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC? Why not start with the key similarities, it's a shorter list. They both had 8088s and ran MS-DOS. OK, there you go. The original HP150 looks like a 9" CRT in a box, with a keyboard attached via coiled cord that goes to the back. Typically there would be an HP-IB disc drive of some sort (probably with a 91xx model number) around, most likely using 3.5" stiffies because HP was an early adopter of the Sony 90mm medium, but even without that the 150 can be used as a terminal (it mostly looks like an HP2623A monochrome graphics terminal). If you look at the back, you'll see two DB25S connectors that are serial ports, an HP-IB connector, a modular phone jack for the keyboard cable, a power switch, a battery holder, and a couple of covered slots for expansion. You might also see a thermal printer mounted in the top. OK, now let's go for some of the differences. The HP150 is not at all compatible with the IBM PC at the hardware or ROM BIOS level. The base system runs the 8088 at 8MHz, which was "faster" than the IBM's 4.77MHz, but on the other hand most applications don't access the display memory directly as on the PC -- instead they either call ROM services directly or behaved as though the console was the aforementioned 2623A terminal, which was being emulated by in-ROM code run by the 8088. So some of that extra speed was used up already. The HP150 is also called the HP Touchscreen, because it has a touch-sensitive screen, implemented as an array of IR emitters and receivers mounted across the screen from each other. You touch something on the screen, and the application gets (if it had asked for same) an escape sequence from the "terminal" indicating what region you touched. I'm thinking that the touchscreen resolution is something like 40x14 (about half the 80x27 character display resolution) but might be wrong on that. Touchscreen trivia: after a while the holes that the IR beams need to pass through get clogged up with dust, and the machine will fail its power-on self test with code F000 (I think, it's been a long time). HP came up with a fix: a little clear plastic shield that sits across the holes in the bottom bezel. Some sharp cookie at HP wrote a couple of TSRs for the 150 that emulated parts of the IBM PC ROM BIOS for video and INT 14H communications, and with these you could get a lot of PC applications to run -- for example, with those I was able to get WordPerfect 4.1 to run and even print to an attached LaserJet. Tony has a later version of the HP150, called either the 150C or the Touchscreen II. It has a 12" display, the touchscreen is optional (not too surprising, it turned out to be not real desirable because people didn't like reaching up to the screen all the time -- they'd rather rest their arms on the desk and use the keyboard and/or I guess a mouse), and better yet the touchscreen IR stuff is hidden behind smooth IR-transparent plastic that doesn't collect dust so well. All in all it arrived just before the users where I worked let it be known that they'd really rather have IBM compatibles so they could at least exchange floppies with people in remote offices. Good thing HP brought out the Vectra about that time, else we might have had to do another maintenance contract with Big Blue or something. -Frank McConnell PS- Hey Max! Trim quoted text! From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 24 21:02:45 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Z-67 was Re: Rescued: Heath H89 References: Message-ID: <35B93CC5.C1F0F611@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I would dearly love to get my hands on the schematics for the Z-67 > > Time to learn the gentle art of Reverse Engineering? Probably quicker > to do that than to track down schematics. > > running . When I started checking it out, it seems to me that > the > > P/S unit was giving problems. > > > > Remember I've never seen one, but : > > How complex can this power supply be? In the Z90 and the dual 5.25" > drive > that I have, the PSUs are so simple that I could fix them without a > schematic. Even using only a test lamp :-). The only thing I remember was that the board was about 12" x 16" or so in size, some of the outputs were putting out voltage, it seemed to also be the interface card for both the floppy and the HD, and that is about it. I tend to try and get as much documentation as I can on anything related to the 70's & early 80's computers that I mostly collect. Right now, I just don't have the time to get into the machines the way I used to. Hmmm, maybe that is a good thing :). At any rate, I won't be doing anything with it in the foreseeable future except to keep my eyes open for other documentatation. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jul 24 21:41:55 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: ID cute HP terminal In-Reply-To: John Rollins's message of Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:30:58 +1200 References: Message-ID: <199807250241.TAA07525@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Rollins wrote: > Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred It's sort of a successor to the 125 and predecessor to the 150. It's an HP2382 "Shadow" terminal housing with a CP/M computer (I think a Z80 but I can't recall for sure) inside. The HP-IB port would be used to connect to an external disc drive, just like on a 150 and using pretty much the same 91xx disc drives. I think I remember using one with a 9121D? -- the one with two single-sided stiffies. I can't recall whether it will play terminal without CP/M. I do remember that in order to get it to play block-mode capable terminal (so it could be used with View aka V/3000 aka VPLUS/3000) it needed to boot CP/M and run a program, and vaguely recall that it could be a not-block-mode-capable terminal without that program (and maybe without loading CP/M). One other thing I recall about it is that it had a precursor to PAM (Personal Application Manager -- a primitive shell/application launcher that later turned up on the 150, 110, some HP9000s, and the Vectra) that was autostarted by CP/M immediately following boot. It used function keys to start the applications, so you could only have seven or eight defined for it to start. The RS232 ports are probably DB25S connectors and I think they look like DTE -- similar pinout to an IBM PC async card with a DB25P. -Frank McConnell From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Jul 24 23:54:00 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: ST506 & RD54 In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E9@mail.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Jul 24, 98 10:10:18 am Message-ID: <199807250454.VAA10408@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi: > better luck looking for specs on that drive. AFAIK it is identical to > the RD54 except for the label DEC puts on it. There's also a jumper that has to be added to a stock Micropolis drive to make it into an RD54. This is R6 on the main drive printed circuit board. Solder a wire in where R6 is indicated on the board. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From peacock at simconv.com Sat Jul 25 00:59:25 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <003d01bdb791$614b2ee0$23ac31cf@foggy.simconv.com> >I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active >terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more >have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card >into my IMSAI? > It depends on what kind of motherboard you have. Typically, the terminator was at the end opposite where the front panel or CPU card plugged in. Early S-100 motherboards ran at only 2 Mhz (8080 CPU) or 2.5 Mhz (early Z-80) so termination wasn't quite so important. Later, when speeds were pushed past 4Mhz the terminator became crucial to reliability. Look at the back end of your motherboard, if you don't see an array of resistors, about 90 or so, then put the Godbout board in the very last slot, and your CPU card as close as possible to the front slot, right behind the front panel. I used one when I went to 4Mhz on the original 22 slot IMSAI motherboard, it does help. After the IMSAI MB wore out I switched to Thinkertoys and Godbout (later called Compupro) motherboards, they had the terminator built in. Jack Peacock From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Jul 24 21:11:00 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: References: <011a01bdb74b$fbc71380$af27a2ce@cgregory> from "Cliff Gregory" at Jul 24, 98 05:42:38 pm Message-ID: <199807250549.BAA22146@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:08:37 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Epson QX-10, CP/M > The QX10 is a very nice CPM machine IMHO. I bought a couple at a radio > > The disk drives (1/3 height) are _strange_, BTW. They've got linear > postioners to move the heads, not stepper motors. Details of them are in > the tech manual, but alas all the interesting stuff is inside a couple of > ASICs on the drives. Snipped of interesting tales... > Then it hit me. There were no defective components on either video board > (or anywhere else in the machine). There were no components missing. Now > was there a design bug. > > What there was were 16 components present that shouldn't have been - > 0.1uF decoupling capacitors on pin 9 of the DRAMs. When I used pin 9 as > the A7 address input, the resulting 1.6uF capacitance loading the driver > completely skewed the timing. Hence the fault. I desoldered the caps and > it worked fine. that's what I call this leap of intitutive or gut feeling. That would applies to this; fixed one motherboard that was hopelessly blown by one chipset only on basis of external symtoms that is vague? Jason D. Max, hint! I snipped out what not needed and kept the heart of what I wanted to comment on. Need to use alterative editors other than lynx. Lynx is good for textural surfing but very poor in editing any emails via website. I find joe editor program not too bad because of online help to help memorize those commands while using it. I'm right now using winblows w/ pegasus mail, (I found few flaws in that stuipid email program and trying to find a chance to wean off of it!) until I get enough stuff fit together to build decent couple of linux boxens later on. Jason D. > -tony Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Jul 24 21:25:40 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <199807250549.BAA22146@commercial.cgocable.net> References: Message-ID: <199807250604.CAA22188@commercial.cgocable.net> > > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:08:37 +0100 (BST) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Epson QX-10, CP/M > > > The QX10 is a very nice CPM machine IMHO. I bought a couple at a > radio > > > > The disk drives (1/3 height) are _strange_, BTW. They've got linear > > postioners to move the heads, not stepper motors. Details of them are in > > the tech manual, but alas all the interesting stuff is inside a couple of > > ASICs on the drives. > Ooops! I wanted to comment on this too... when you move the heads back and forth did you find soft detents rather like stepper? Then this is really linear stepper type. These drives uses push-push latching via that flip down door with LED window. Push once, door opens, put disk in and push door shut to clamp down a floppy disk. Push once again, door flips down and the disk pops out. Is that it? This is same type as I have on Zenith and Morrow Pivot had. > Snipped of interesting tales... > > > Then it hit me. There were no defective components on either video board > > (or anywhere else in the machine). There were no components missing. Now > > was there a design bug. > > > > What there was were 16 components present that shouldn't have been - > > 0.1uF decoupling capacitors on pin 9 of the DRAMs. When I used pin 9 as > > the A7 address input, the resulting 1.6uF capacitance loading the driver > > completely skewed the timing. Hence the fault. I desoldered the caps and > > it worked fine. > > that's what I call this leap of intitutive or gut feeling. That > would applies to this; fixed one motherboard that was hopelessly > blown by one chipset only on basis of external symtoms that is vague? > > Jason D. > > Max, hint! I snipped out what not needed and kept the heart of what > I wanted to comment on. Need to use alterative editors other than > lynx. Lynx is good for textural surfing but very poor in editing any > emails via website. I find joe editor program not too bad because of > online help to help memorize those commands while using it. > I'm right now using winblows w/ pegasus mail, (I found few flaws in > that stuipid email program and trying to find a chance to wean off of > it!) until I get enough stuff fit together to build decent couple of > linux boxens later on. > > Jason D. > > > -tony > > Jason D. > jpero@pop.cgocable.net > > Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jul 25 01:32:17 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Back Message-ID: <199807250632.AAA05224@calico.litterbox.com> I'm back, having had a good sulk over whatever it was I left over - darned if I remember. :) I'm still doing apple2GSs, but I've expanded my collection of old machines to include an apple2e - enhanced (ordered the roms from Alltech), and just today an Amstrad ppc 640 portable, something I've wanted ever since they were on clearance at Underwear Computers (mostly a Commodore dealer at the time) for 200 bucks. The handle's broken off, but the computer functions, and runs all the dos software I've thrown at it so far. So hello again to the list. It's good to be back. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Jul 25 01:39:07 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Getting rid of 11/84 In-Reply-To: <6papd5$kfh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6papd5$kfh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Message-ID: <35b97d03.705250636@smtp.wa.jps.net> Heads up in Midland, Michigan! (or vicinity). This fellow is looking for a "recycler" to get rid of an 11/84. This sounds to me like (1), a prime opportunity for any of our rescue folk in the midwest, and (2), a prime opportunity to educate the fellow getting rid of it that a recycler is not the only answer. Please contact him directly if you can help. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:04:52 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>From: yellow_fiero@my-dejanews.com >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: Getting rid of a PDP-11 follow-up >>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:04:52 GMT >>Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion >>Lines: 26 >>Message-ID: <6papd5$kfh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.154.221.12 >>X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 24 20:04:52 1998 GMT >>X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) >>X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 CORPNT45 >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail >> >>Sorry about the confusion, the PDP-11/84 is located in Midland, MI USA. We >>have the CPU, two RL02 disk drives, a TK50R tape, and RA81, and roughly 72 of >>each kind of process interface I/O points (analog input, analog output, >>digital input, digital output) with boards made by a company called Computec >>(later called Interautomation - located in Canada). Our DEC runs seven 500 >>gallon mixers, and has done so since the 70s. >> >>I have also found a very old PDP-11 that runs our rs-232 interface. I don't >>have a model number on it, but interestingly enough, I took the top cover off >>and it has wire-wrapped boards!!! I was surprised that it was still running >>our process, but it is! The only stampings on it are the following: >> >>M11 >>BA11E >>S-1285 >> >>located on the back panel. What could this be? >> >>Anyway, I'm still looking for a recycler. I have a complete list of all >>components and model numbers if anyone finds it necessary. Thanks for your >>responses, and I will post this note also. >> >>Robert Most. >> >>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- >>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 25 01:38:46 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active > terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more > have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card > into my IMSAI? Only the motherboards that didn't have active termination require a terminator. In my experience, that's a fair number of mobo's out there. All my California Computer Systems boxes had to have a bus terminator installed. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 25 00:44:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980724135335.499f7de2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980725004401.6ad70d8a@intellistar.net> At 01:33 AM 7/25/98 +0100, you wrote:>> Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC. >> Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST IBM > >There never was an HP 8087 card for the plain HP150, although HP do >acknowledge that 3rd party one exist in the techref. > >There was an official HP 8087 card for the HP150-II. I have it. It's Do you want another one? I left one in a scrap yard yestrday. I have a TS II but it's working fine and I didn't feel like hacking it up to add the 8087. >strange. When you install it, you cut a jumper on the motherboard that >disables the 8088. The add-on card contains a new 8088 configured in >'maximum mode' (so the coprocessor interface signals are available), the >8087 and enough glue logic to make it look like an 8088 in 'minimum mode' >to the rest of the system. > >> PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all > >It's hardly PC compatible. That's why I said "ALMOST IBM PC compatible"!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, it runs MS-DOS, and there's an 8088 in >there, but the video system is totally different, as is the serial system >(the HP150 uses an NEC 7201 chip), the disk controller (disk drives are >interfaced using the HPIB port), Yes and the disks aren't in a MS_DOS format unless you added a 9127 drive. etc. Any application that hits the >hardware (or even the BIOS?) won't run on the HP150. Unless you get the TSR that emulates the PC BIOS. It doesn't fix all the gotchas but it helps. > >I prefer to call it (and the Apricot, Sirius, Sanyo MBC555, etc) an IBM >Incompatible. Meaning a machine that runs MS-DOS, but sure as hell >doesn't run much PC software. Sure it will IF you buy it from HP! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 25 00:57:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: ID cute HP terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980725005754.6ad7e274@intellistar.net> At 05:30 PM 7/24/98 +1200, you wrote: >Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred >other numbers on the bottom... Anyways, it's a very interesting model. >Works fine, has two DB-25 ports(modem and printer, both serial?) and an >HP-IB port, and uses two small batteries that look like N size or close to >that. And a cute keyboard, lotso keys but very small. Anyways... Does >anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find anything on HP's web site, >and nothing showed up immediatley on web searches. What kind of terminal is >it? Are the ports normal RS-232? What does the HP-IB port do, and how do I >access it? So many questions... Too bad there was no manual. But then what >do you expect for $5? At least I got a keyboard... You were lucky! Most people got stuck with a chicklet keyboard on those. You still see ads occasionally for people looking for standard keyboards. The batteries are to hold the CMOS settings. Yes, they should be N cells. They use the same arrangement in the HP 150s. The HP-IB port is used to connect to disk drive(s), printers, plotters, etc. The HP_IB supports up to 32 devices on the bus but most items only have a four pole address switch so that limits the number of available addresses to 16 including the computer. And often the computer reserves several addresses for it's own devices, but I don't know if the 120 does that or not. I've never had (or even seen!) a 120 so I can't give any specific help on it. But I think I have a chart showing what drives are supported on the 120. Let me know if you need a copy. HP_IB disk drives aren't hard to find and HP ThinkJet printers with the HP-IB interface are plentiful so grab a couple and hang them on it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 25 02:05:58 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination In-Reply-To: References: <199807250017.AA06852@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980725020558.6ad7ab70@intellistar.net> Doug, Since I got my Altair, I've been boning up on the s-100 stuff. I got an active terminator board with my Altair so that's one thing that I paid particular attention too. Here's what I found out. The first S-100 computers did not come with any termination but they soon found that the long bus lines were causing ringing and false triggering in the circuits. Ringing is caused when a signal reaches the end of an unterminated (open) line such as a data buss.* The signal reverses polarity and travels back in the direction that it came from just like an echo. When it reaches another end, it changes polarity and direction again. Now you have two positive pulses and one negative pulse where there is only supposed to be one pulse! Consider the number of times that each line branched off to a card socket and you can understand that now there where a dozen or more echos on every line and they were all at different times. It's no wonder that the systems where so difficult to make work with all the noise on the buss. The first solution was to use passive termination to try and eliminate the noise but it had limited success. This method used resistor divider networks that connected to the 0 and 5 volt power with the junctions connected to the signal lines. They had to keep the resistances high to minimize power supply loading and to prevent clamping the line so well that no signal could get through. This method wasn't entirely effective due to the combination of high clamping impedence (resistance) and unterminated branchs (sockets). The next solution was to use active termination. This method uses what amounts to small individual power supplies on each line to hold the line voltage at a level between 0 and the maximum siganl level (5 volts). This method offered a lower clamping impedence AND less power supply loading and was better able to prevent the ringing. The active terminator baords were a very popular accessory and a lot of people where making and selling them. In fact, I have an article from one of the first Byte magazines about how to make your own active terminator board. I believe that the later S-100 systems like the N* Horizon came with termination built into the MB. The ringing problem in the early Altairs was made worse by use of the long wires that ran from the MB to the front panel. Better designs eliminated a lot the sources of the ringing. FWIW this is EXACTLY the reason that you still have to terminate SCSI busses and disk drive cabling. There is still an ongoing debate in the SCSI community about the nessecity/benefits of active vs passive termination. * OK OK! Just for you purists, ringing is caused ANYTIME a signal makes a transistion from one impedence to another. The bigger the change, the bigger the reflected signal. That's why when ****power**** or signal distortion counts, you have to try and match all the impedences in the signal path. That means that your signal source such as an antenna, the signal destination such as your TV set and the interconnecting cableing all have to have the same impedence or you have to use a matching transformer to match the impedences. Go look at the back of your televison, you'll usually see a matching transformer and 300 Ohm and 75 Ohm inputs. The two inputs are there so that you can use the one that matches the impedence of the lead that brings the signal into your home. Most TV antennas have a 300 Ohm Impedence. The round coaxial cable has an impedence of 75 Ohms. If you are using it then there should also be a small matching transformer on your antenna. Joe At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active >terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more >have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card >into my IMSAI? > >-- Doug > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 25 02:40:10 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Re: Apple ][ file conversion" (Jul 24, 15:50) References: <19980724225045.14900.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9807250840.ZM19272@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 24, 15:50, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: Apple ][ file conversion > Can I make use of the Centronics interface? Not really. > What type of 'serial car' do you recommend? Can I use my Apple // > w/serial port but w/o CP/M? I was economising on letter 'd's :-) You can use any serial card in a ][ or the serial port on the //, with Kermit. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 25 03:08:05 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Re: FW: Writer wants to quote users" (Jul 24, 18:02) References: <19980725010205.29210.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9807250908.ZM19298@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 24, 18:02, Max Eskin wrote: > So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives? You need a little adapter to shuffle the signals from the 34-pin connector to a 50-pin connector, but usually that's all. The data rate for an 8" DD (MFM) disk is the same as for a 3.5" HD (also MFM) disk. If you want to use 8" SD (FM) disks, you may need to add a jumper to the controller, as not all XT controllers can handle single-density. > So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks? > Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out. Other way round. The 360K disks (better called 40-track double-sided) normally run at 300 rpm and (for MFM/double density) use a data rate of 250 bps. Before HD disks, 80-track disks were made the same way. Most HD drives, though, switch to 360 rpm and use a data rate of 300 bps (or 600 bps in HD mode). Some of those HD drives can be switched between 300/360 rpm by the signal on pin 1 of the interface, which is used for DD/HD selection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From chris at microgear.net Sat Jul 25 05:13:18 1998 From: chris at microgear.net (chris@microgear.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: semi-off topic: how to put a 5-1/4" or 8" in those newfangled PII easy-bake oven boxes Message-ID: <199807251039.FAA04833@neon.prysm.net> > < That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a > < rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in. > > Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What > do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT > plug into on the PCI only board? > not to butt in here, but this is what i do for a "real job" so here goes... if the cable has the card-edge plug on it (or you have an adapter) the pII bioses still support 5.25" floppy, it's not plug & play, you have to tell the bios it has it AFAIK. Most drive cables still have the card-edge connector on the slot for the B: drive, too. And I have only seen one all-PCI board, most retain at least 3 isa slots because of modems and the like, so the 8" controller, if need be, would go there (I presume, never dealt with one on a PC) It's just that nothing of consequence to your average pentium II user is on anything with less capacity than a CD (with the advent of Windows 98, even the boot floppy for the first system install has become obsolete, and we can all thank Bill Gates and his fat programs for that) anymore, so you rarely see the old 5 1/4"s in those systems. But it *could* be done, and without much difficulty. Chris From mbg at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 07:04:27 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <199807251204.AA00224@world.std.com> > I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The >auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could >tell. The 5140 is the IBM PC Convertible Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sat Jul 25 07:40:06 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <008601bdb7c9$5ec63740$aa27a2ce@cgregory> I can confirm that is indeed the part number for a 5140 power supply. If you look on the back of the power supply itself you will see IBM's declaration that it should be only used with model 5140 (in several languages!). I wouldn't mind having a spare myself. I'll contact you directly. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 10:41 PM Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) > >Hi guys, > I just picked up a bunch of IBM power supplies at auction. The >auctioneer says they're for the 5140, but I don't know how you could tell. > > They're all appear to be brand new and are in the original boxes. The >box is labeled "P/N 2684220", the Power supply "P/N 2684292". Output is >15v, 2.7A. > >Anybody know what they're for? And if anybody wants one, the price is $5 >shipped, each. > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Jul 25 08:55:13 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980724233856.006a7544@netpath.net> At 11:16 PM 7/23/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Wow, it sounds like somebody just lost their GRiD-virginity. John H. took >my 1535EXP, so I have to go from memory. It's a 386DX-33 (in a PGA, so Yes, I actually flew across the country, broke into his house, grabbed the mag-alloy 1535 out of his hands, repeatedly beat him over the head with it, and took off. Doug, you're lucky to be alive after all that. :) Maybe that's why I'm having problems with the sucker! >you can upgrade it via Cyrix/TI/etc) with up to 8MB RAM (low-profile >SIPs). I think it wants 16-18V DC, center neg. The empty hole will >accomidate eithe battery or a power supply with an AC plug. Yep, that sounds about right. It uses the same power brick my GRiDPad 1912 uses. BTW, if anyone needs a keyboard adapter cable for their GRiDPad, let me know. I have 5 extras. >The connector on the bottom of the machine plugs into a docking tray, >which John H. also took and I think was trying to sell last time I >checked. (John, are you there?) I'd rather trade it to someone who can really use it. Even if it works, I don't really have a use for it, and the 1535 w/8mb is a very usable machine even without the tray. GRiD 1535 BIOS Date: 1989, slightly under the 10 year mark, but these are such extrordinary machines! - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 08:59:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980725135947.7842.qmail@hotmail.com> It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros), but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is), but am not much good with things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn. >How is this a problem? You learned how to run a PC, programming a >PDP-8 is at least an order of magnitude simpler. How many instructions? I believe the Pentium has on the order of 80, not sure. >Seriously, the instruction set and archetecture is so simple it's >downright inviting. They weren't networked at all? I mean, there weren't instances of connecting two machines with cables? >The old machines didn't have to be huge, complex or networked. >Allison ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 09:03:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <19980725140350.788.qmail@hotmail.com> >Yes with any current printer just like a PC, though the connector may >be different. What I mean is, can I transfer files to a PC via the Centronics interface? Can I 'print' a file in wordstar with the other end of the cable plugged into a null modem? >Sure! Will an apple //c read CP/M disks? How? I can't use an editor because it would take me forever to cut and paste the lines between them. You don't realize how limiting the situation really is. The library never intended this to be used for e-mail. Right now I'm using Netscape 4 on a T1 connection at a place where I volunteer. >Max, get an editor. Either that or don't use LYNX for mail, try elm >or pine. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Joshu2415 at aol.com Sat Jul 25 09:23:37 1998 From: Joshu2415 at aol.com (Joshu2415@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Attn: Obsolete Computer Collectors Message-ID: <237867ef.35b9ea6a@aol.com> Attention Collectors: I have a NEC MultiSpeed HD laptop. If you are interested, just email. Thanks For Your Time, Matt -- Joshu2415@aol.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 09:44:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807251444.AA03481@world.std.com> < So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives? No/yes but, it is one that is documented and modifyable. So happens I was with NEC Microelectrnics when they introduced the 765 chip so I sorta have an advantage when it come to floppy interfacing. < For once, I used the correct terminology :) Compared to SCSI, all < IDE controllers and most non-IDE/SCSI MFM drives require very little < configuration. That's what I meant. False truism. They are about the same just differnt. IDE with the limitation of two drives really does limit the variable parameters. MFM with up to 4 drives and two schemes for addressing have to have more. SCSI you have a device address, powerup mode and a few others like termination to select from. < So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks? < Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out. no. All of them. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 09:45:22 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: TK50x Message-ID: <199807251445.AA03791@world.std.com> < Allison, does the TK50Z bare drive have a 50-pin connector as compared < with a lesser (26-pin) connector on the non-SCSI drives? The actual drive is the TK50. There is a scsi bridge to make it a tk50z. < Aside from the drive and a power supply, what does the pizza box contain What are we talking about a tk50z in a ba42 box? Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 09:45:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <199807251445.AA03840@world.std.com> < > terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did m < Only the motherboards that didn't have active termination require a < terminator. In my experience, that's a fair number of mobo's out there My experience with 4 or 5 crates I have and many I've built up. If it runs well or the bus looks clean to the O'scope skip it. Some busses it's helps but still look terrible (altair with the original backplanes). My Northstar Horizon never needed one and it's currently running at 8mhz. The VectorMX box I have with Compupro backplane needed the terminators installed for 10mhz. The CCS I'm using with discus hard disk and 8" floppy doesn't require it at 4mhz or 6mhz. One thing that seems to be true, the longer the backplane the more likely it will ring and need termination. All Altairs seem to and IMSAIs seem to benefit if the cpu is z80 4mhz. The quietest unterminated or terminated backplane I own is an oddball 6 slot I have that is 4 layer technology with ground and power are on the middle two layers. I've found a few badly designed cpu cards and memory cards that were terrible in that they would introduce noise onto an otherwise quiet bus! Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 09:45:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <199807251445.AA03874@world.std.com> < The first S-100 computers did not come with any termination but they < soon found that the long bus lines were causing ringing and false < triggering in the circuits. Ringing is caused when a signal reaches the < of an unterminated (open) line such as a data buss.* The signal reverse < polarity and travels back in the direction that it came from just like a < echo. When it reaches another end, it changes polarity and direction aga < Now you have two positive pulses and one negative pulse where there is o < supposed to be one pulse! Consider the number of times that each line < branched off to a card socket and you can understand that now there wher < dozen or more echos on every line and they were all at different times. < It's no wonder that the systems where so difficult to make work with al < the noise on the buss. This is true. All signals on the bus and off it obey Transmission line theory. IT's also the one of the reasons why the T-connector for thin eithernet must be on the back of the machine and not a 3ft jumper away. One of the design rules that ALtair bused the worst and IMSAI seemed to have a clue on was what are clalled stubs. What this translates to is anything going onto and off of the backplane(bus) MUST be buffered as close to the edge connector as possible. < board. I believe that the later S-100 systems like the N* Horizon came w < termination built into the MB. The ringing problem in the early Altair No it didn't and doesn't need it. They approached it a bit different by making one end of the bus a permanently resident IO section with seria, parallel and heartbeat interrupt. Their choice of drivers and recievers helped some too. Obeying stub theory was another step taken. It is good enough that even at 8mhz z80 it works. < was made worse by use of the long wires that ran from the MB to the fron < panel. Better designs eliminated a lot the sources of the ringing. FW that was the horror I saw when I built my altair back when. As an RF/analog engineer I could see that making my day pure hell. It proved to be true. The solution was a small board that plugged in and buffered all the signals to and from the front pannel. < this is EXACTLY the reason that you still have to terminate SCSI busses < disk drive cabling. There is still an ongoing debate in the SCSI communi < about the nessecity/benefits of active vs passive termination. SCSI is an open collector bus so you need both termination (any) and it must pull up unused lines or it don't work. This is also true for DEC Omnibus, Unibus and Qbusses. One of the long standing problems with bus terminations is that they absorb power. This required stiffer drivers at the source and since stiffer drivers matched the bus impedence even worse it tended to make problem grow rather than solve it. it also consumes power contributing heat to the box. S100 bus was one of those we made it that way but, no one ever would have engineered it that way. All of the engineered buses are terminated in some way or designed to perform without the need for it. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 09:51:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <19980725145117.8479.qmail@hotmail.com> >< So does this mean 1.2MB floppies use a lower bps than 360K disks? >< Which controllers were these? I ought to watch out. > >no. All of them. I meant, which controllers can't correctly read 360K floppies? > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 25 09:46:13 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Attn: Obsolete Computer Collectors In-Reply-To: <237867ef.35b9ea6a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980725094613.2fff5b4a@intellistar.net> Matt, I'm interested! I *bought* a NEC Multi-Speed when they first came out. I drooled over the later HD model after using the original with no HD and that pathetic green on green screen. I still have my Multi-Speed along with all the docs, manuals etc so I jump right into the HD model. Joe At 10:23 AM 7/25/98 EDT, you wrote: >Attention Collectors: > >I have a NEC MultiSpeed HD laptop. >If you are interested, just email. > >Thanks For Your Time, >Matt -- Joshu2415@aol.com > From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Jul 25 10:43:09 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: More stuff for sale In-Reply-To: <901376896.563602@linux2.cottagesoft.com> References: <901376896.563602@linux2.cottagesoft.com> Message-ID: <35b9fcdd.737979999@smtp.wa.jps.net> This guy's still got a stack of QBus boards and other stuff. Get with him directly if you're interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:40:34 -0700, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: "SpaceKommander" >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: More stuff for sale >>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:40:34 -0700 >>Organization: Cottage Software Inc. & Internet Connection >>Lines: 43 >>Message-ID: <901376896.563602@linux2.cottagesoft.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.240.70.8 >>X-Trace: 901377147 KNIMWA/AC4608CDF0C usenet53.supernews.com >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >>Cache-Post-Path: linux2.cottagesoft.com!unknown@31.ict-max.cottagesoft.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail >> >>Stuff for sale - email me. >>Still have the TK50, cable & controller. >>Full set of VENIX manuals and boxes (5 volumes) >>DECmate word processing options (1 vol) and basics(1 vol) >> >>boards: >> >>2 X G114 >>2 X G235 >>1 X H207 >>2 X H217 >>1 X M225 >>1 X M3104 >>4 X M7168 >>2 X M7169 >>1 X M7231 >>1 X M7233 >>1 X M7234 >>1 X M7235 >>1 X M7236 >>1 X M7238 >>2 X M7555 >>2 X M7606 >>2 X M7607 >>2 X M7608 >>1 X M8012 >>1 X M8027 >>1 X M8186 >>2 X M8637 >>1 X M8639 >>4 X M9047 >>2 X clearpoint Q-RAM 11B with 76 256K chips per board packed in as tight as >>you could put them. >> >>Can't remember which of the above is RQDX3, but they are gone. >> >>Bye, >> >>Tom >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 11:04:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807251604.AA07996@world.std.com> < How many instructions? I believe the Pentium has on the order of 80, not < sure. More like 100+, not counting all the addressing modes. the instuction set for the 8086 is many times larger than the PDP-8. The PDP-8 instuction set is 47 (most all variations included), it's very minimal. < They weren't networked at all? I mean, there weren't instances of < connecting two machines with cables? Actually there was DECnet-8! Dual processor machines were not uncommon. but they were not networked like you would current machines. It was not the mindset of that era and generally not required. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 11:04:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <199807251604.AA08092@world.std.com> < What I mean is, can I transfer files to a PC via the Centronics < interface? Can I 'print' a file in wordstar with the other end of the < cable plugged into a null modem? No/yes. No you can't as there is no software for that and I believe the apple parallel was definatly outgoing only. Work great for printing and that was what I thought you referred to. the apple][ had the problem of all disks are foreign if they weren't created on an apple regardless of the OS used. Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 25 05:23:22 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: pete@indy (Pete Turnbull) "Re: FW: Writer wants to quote users" (Jul 25, 8:08) References: <19980725010205.29210.qmail@hotmail.com> <9807250908.ZM19298@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9807251123.ZM19471@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 25, 8:08, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Some of those HD drives can be switched between 300/360 > rpm by the signal on pin 1 of the interface, .... ...but he meant pin 2 :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From poesie at geocities.com Sat Jul 25 11:50:38 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? Message-ID: <35BA0CDE.2688@geocities.com> are there hard drives for laptops that are smaller than the 2.5" drives? I have a laptop that takes an IDE hdd, but the space is about 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does such a creature exist? -Eric From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 25 11:51:32 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <19980725140350.788.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > What I mean is, can I transfer files to a PC via the Centronics > interface? Can I 'print' a file in wordstar with the other end of the > cable plugged into a null modem? No. Centronics is a totally different interface from RS232. > Will an apple //c read CP/M disks? How? It will read Apple CP/M disks, which are in the same format as regular Apple disks. Its just the layout of the data on the sectors that is different. General rule of thumb with Apple format disks: they can only be read on an Apple. General rule of thumb about Apple drives: they can only read Apple disks. > I can't use an editor because it would take me forever to cut and paste > the lines between them. You don't realize how limiting the situation You seemed to have done a good job with this reply. Keep it up. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 12:53:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <19980725175347.21227.qmail@hotmail.com> So, can I access the actual data with a non-CP/M comm program? >It will read Apple CP/M disks, which are in the same format as >regular Apple disks. Its just the layout of the data on the sectors > that is different. Because I was, and currently am, using Netscape which I have access to on Saturdays and Tuesdays. BTW, I will be going away for a while. I'm almost too embarassed to ask this, but what is the listserv adress to unsubscribe? >You seemed to have done a good job with this reply. Keep it up. > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 13:09:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <199807251809.AA04197@world.std.com> < I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active < terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did mor No but some would ring so bad that was a solution. In most cases it was a help. < have it built into the mobo? MOBO, mobo, nogo. AH, motherboard! No they are called backplanes dear. < I meant, which controllers can't correctly read 360K floppies? None that I know of... it's the 1.2mb and 1.44 cases that can be problematic(and system dependent). Allison From mbg at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 13:16:53 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <199807251816.AA06783@world.std.com> I would also be interested in the 5140 power supply... maybe a couple of spares... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Jul 25 13:23:22 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Problems Message-ID: Hi, I have what could be called a classic machine, a Sun-1 (With a Sun-2 upgrade 68010 board) Now I have 1/2 and 1/4 inch tape drives 2 hard drives loads of tapes/manuals and a SunOS 3.2 boot tape set. This machine was only recently taken out of service after it spend some years converting old 1/2" tapes into a more permanent format. The HDD's are unfortunatly dying and I've only had it booted once, and it booted SunOS 3.2. The problem is the old machine refuses to boot of it's tape drive (an archive QIC-11 drive) typing: > b ar() simply gets ar: 96A0 Error Retensing... ar: 90C8 Error > Network booting is possible, but Sun never released the specs to the "nd" network protocol and I don't have access to another SunOS box to try and work out how ndbootd works. I'd love to get this machine working and up on the net. Any help would be appreciated Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From mbg at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 13:26:59 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807251826.AA11426@world.std.com> >It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where >the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my >experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros), >but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time >asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will >eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will >all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go >bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable >risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a If people like Allison, Tim.Shoppa, John.Wilson, myself and others have our way, they won't disappear... I have some 16+ -11s of various types at home (check the home_systems page off my web page) >bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or >something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take >C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice >that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there >are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is), >but am not much good with things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn. With older assemblers, it was pretty straightforward. Nowever, with RISC machines which have pipelines and 'hints' and branch delays, etc. assembly is a little more difficult. Plus, where the -11 has an instruction set where you can MOV from memory to memory, memory to register, register to memory and register to register, the RISC machines generally forego memory to memory and, like the -8 before them, require you to move things through a register first... >How many instructions [on the -8]? I believe the Pentium has on the >order of 80, not sure. The -8 had 8 general purpose instructions, but it also had things called operate microinstructions, in groups, which did multiple things depending on which bits of the instruction were set. So, for example, you could clear the AC (CLA) and in a separate instruction OR the contents of the switch register with the AC (OSR), or you could combine the two operations into one instructions (since there were members of the same microinstruction group). There were also the instructions for the various devices, but they were pretty much similar in actions, but with different device numbers encoded in them. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 25 12:56:56 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: ID cute HP terminal In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:57:54 References: <3.0.1.16.19980725005754.6ad7e274@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199807251756.KAA08431@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote (after John Rollins): > >Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred > You were lucky! Most people got stuck with a chicklet keyboard on those. > You still see ads occasionally for people looking for standard keyboards. "Chicklet" keyboard? What I've seen are two sizes of keyboard: one not much wider than the terminal housing that has the QWERTY key cluster with some function keys at the top and some compressed and doubled-up keys, and one wide keyboard with the numeric keypad off to the right. The narrow keyboard is a bit of a pain to work with because of the compromises made w/r/t key placement (e.g. the return key is relatively small), but it's usable and has full-travel keys just like the wide one. -Frank McConnell From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 25 13:32:54 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? In-Reply-To: <35BA0CDE.2688@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 25, 98 11:50:38 am Message-ID: <199807251832.OAA16563@user2.infinet.com> > > are there hard drives for laptops that are smaller than the 2.5" > drives? Yes. > I have a laptop that takes an IDE hdd, but the space is about > 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall > seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does such > a creature exist? I have never seen a 1.8" drive that wasn't embedded in a PCMCIA card. I do have several 1.3" "Kitty Hawk" drives - 44=pin high-density IDE plug, 20Mb, but they did make a 40Mb version. My Kitty Hawk is currently attached to a C-64. -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 10:52:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <19980725010205.29210.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 24, 98 06:02:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/89208609/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 11:03:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: <199807250143.SAA05932@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Jul 24, 98 06:43:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1164 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/6b73e99d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 10:39:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980725004401.6ad70d8a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 25, 98 00:44:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/e01fe7f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 11:14:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <199807250604.CAA22188@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 25, 98 02:25:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/76207323/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 11:21:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Back In-Reply-To: <199807250632.AAA05224@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim" at Jul 25, 98 00:32:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 911 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/06576c99/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 11:25:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:30 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <9807250840.ZM19272@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 25, 98 07:40:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/f9ee9188/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 25 15:08:48 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: TK50x In-Reply-To: <199807251445.AA03791@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > < Allison, does the TK50Z bare drive have a 50-pin connector as compared > < with a lesser (26-pin) connector on the non-SCSI drives? > > The actual drive is the TK50. There is a scsi bridge to make it a tk50z. In addendum to my earlier message, can anyone point me at a source for the pinout of the TK50? I did a websearch, but it was hardly productive. - don From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 25 15:33:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > So, can a standard XT controller be used for 8" drives? > > Not normally. The 8" drive uses the higher 500kbps data rate, not the > 250kbps used by 360K and 720K (=XT) drives. However, I got a multi-IO > card using a UMC disk controller and replaced the chip with the > AT-compatible version. Also had to change the crystal, and kludge the > addressing logic. Took about 30 minutes, including reading the UMC data > book. Tony, I assume you refer to the UMC8398 - the 48-pin package. Do you happen to know if this has the same pinout as the NS8473? - don **** snip **** From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 25 15:45:14 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <199807252045.NAA25665@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active >terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more >have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card >into my IMSAI? > I don't remember many ads besides Godbout about active terminators. What seemed more important was shielding - running ground traces between the signal lines, at least for all the ads for "shielded" motherboards. Maybe a few of the lines would be helped by terminations. It was these where 1k pullup resistors wouls be put on cards. 8 cards with 1k resistors would be 125 Ohms, distributed. Terminations of longer ribbon cables seemed more important. I remember early floppy drives with a dip resistor pack (220/330 Ohms?) that you put on the last or only drive. Whatever happened to this? A few years ago I bought a 1.44 floppy drive and asked about terminations (Did it require or have them? Controlled by a jumper?) The tech support people looked at me like I was from Mars. Doesn't scsi use terminators? Try your S-100 both ways, and see if it helps or hurts. -Dave From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Jul 25 11:52:54 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: References: <199807250604.CAA22188@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 25, 98 02:25:40 am Message-ID: <199807252031.QAA24398@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:14:46 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Epson QX-10, CP/M > No, it's a true voice coil (I have a schematic in front of me). There's a > Voice Coil Motor (VCM) that consists of a driving voice coil, a velocity > feedback coil and 3 photodetectors : track 0, and a pair of position > error signals. Snipped of it's juicy descriptions...how interesting! Now I see what you meant. Suppose, you have a floppy disk completely blank no tracks, just spanking new one and try to format that in this? I wondered how it knows it's right distrances between tracks and so on. > It certainly isn't a linear stepper. Okay! > The same drives IIRC are used in the TF20 floppy drive for the HX20, BTW. Whatever, I have not seen anything like this drive in my experience. What machines did use these type with that neat voice-coil head positioner? I find this voice-coil idea very reliable than stepper themselves. Jason D. > > > -tony Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 15:58:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? Message-ID: <199807252058.AA21448@world.std.com> < are there hard drives for laptops that are smaller than the 2.5" < drives? I have a laptop that takes an IDE hdd, but the space is about Yes, 1.8" < 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall < seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does suc < a creature exist? there are hard drive PCMCIA cards the sixe of credit card and something like 1/4" thick. I vaguely remember storage in the 100-200 mb range. Allison From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Jul 25 16:15:40 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: FW: More stuff for sale In-Reply-To: <199807251809.AA04306@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980725141540.00e6cd00@mail.wa.jps.net> At 14:09 25-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >He Bruce, > >What do you figure, does he have a real address? the venix manuals would >be nice if he exists. Ahhh, criminys... sorry, Allison (and the rest of the list). I didn't check to see if he had a real E-mail address. I would try posting a query to the comp.sys.dec.micro. Chances are the person will see it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Jul 25 16:25:03 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: FW: FREE VAX to good home In-Reply-To: <1998Jul25.144809@lor> References: <1998Jul25.144809@lor> Message-ID: <35bc4cfb.758490121@smtp.wa.jps.net> Found on Usenet. If anyone wants an 11/750, this looks like a good grab. It's in Tulsa, OK. -=-=- -=-=- On 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: jps@lor.jrent.com (Jim Strother) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Free VAX to good home >>Message-ID: <1998Jul25.144809@lor> >>Date: 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT >>Organization: Lors Gateway >>Lines: 11 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.236.90 >>X-Trace: 25 Jul 1998 19:38:51 GMT, 208.145.236.90 >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!diablo.quiknet.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!news.psd.k12.co.us!newsfeed.frii.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.154.138.15!news.busprod.com!lor!jps >> >>I have the following free to a good home. >> >>Vax 11/750 >>expansion cabinet >>2 ra81 disk drives >>1 tu78 9 track tape drive >> >>All you have to do is come get or send someone after it. I am located in >>Tulsa, OK. >> >>Jim Strother -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 25 17:22:18 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple Prototype Keyboard Message-ID: <199807252222.PAA15842@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I just acquired two Apple prototype keyboards. The keyboard is very small with no frame and only 58 keys. They hvae stereo-type connectors on them, as oppose to ADB, and I have an adapter box to hook them up to a Mac Plus (and they do work, btw). According to my "AppleDesign" book, they are "Cassie" keyboards, co-designed by Mannock and Esslinger for the SnowWhite Project. Does anyone have any further information on these keyboards? And how do things like this get outside of Apple? I'm under the impression Apple doesn't exactly give this kind of stuff away. On the back the keyboards read: [logo]apple apq Development Engineering PROTOTYPE S/n# Model# 1012 (the other says "1032") Does Apple start numbering at '1' or '1000'? The keyboard, btw, is obviously a prototype. The whole thing seems quite flimsy and the keys are all angled slightly differently. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From peacock at simconv.com Sat Jul 25 17:32:52 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4ED@mail.simconv.com> < 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall < seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does suc < a creature exist? Even smaller...HP made a 1.3" disk drive, Hawkeye ???, I think it was either 20MB or 40MB capacity. The components were so small you needed watchmaker tools to take the drive apart. Jack Peacock From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 25 18:10:11 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <199807252310.QAB19190@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >If >you look on the back of the power supply itself you will see IBM's >declaration that it should be only used with model 5140 (in several >languages!). Yes, there it is. "CAUTION! Indoor use only. To be used only with IBM MOdel 5140." It never occured to me there would actually be some valuable information in the disclaimer! Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jul 25 18:13:04 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? In-Reply-To: <199807251832.OAA16563@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 25, 98 02:32:54 pm Message-ID: <199807252313.RAA10648@calico.litterbox.com> I have. Alltech electronics sells them loose or as part of their focus hard card for apple2. Looks like the platter(s) must be about the size of a quarter. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jul 25 18:21:01 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <19980725140350.788.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 25, 98 07:03:50 am Message-ID: <199807252321.RAA10745@calico.litterbox.com> No. If however you tie the SERIAL port of your apple to the serial port of your pc, that will work. Centronics is an 8 bit parallel interface normally used for printers. Null modems and such are serial - 1 bit at a time. The two are not compatible without significant electronics between them. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jul 25 18:25:19 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... Message-ID: <199807252325.RAA10771@calico.litterbox.com> I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I really wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort of hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller? Ideally it would come out the other end in IDE, and I could put one of those little 1.8 inch 20 meg IDE drives in the thing. Speed is not a huge concern, since this is a 4.77mhz XT class machine. Also, if anyone has a wrecked ppc 512 or 640 that has a good back case section- the bottom part of the main body that the handle is screwed to (and the handle) I'd be very interested in buying it. Mine appears to have gotten squooshed in shipping and had the handle torn off, and I'm lothe to trust epoxied plastic to hold a 14+ pound computer. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 16:47:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <19980725135947.7842.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 25, 98 06:59:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/158358a7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 16:52:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 25, 98 05:14:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/2562c33a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 17:05:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Problems In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Jul 26, 98 04:23:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980725/68a2bf39/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 18:45:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10, CP/M In-Reply-To: <199807252031.QAA24398@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 25, 98 04:52:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1148 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/52a57eff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 18:46:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 25, 98 01:33:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 315 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/6ab05197/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 25 18:52:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... In-Reply-To: <199807252325.RAA10771@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim" at Jul 25, 98 05:25:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1252 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/76ae2a74/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 19:48:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <19980726004858.10705.qmail@hotmail.com> All direct cable connection software is capable of using the parallel port to transfer files. >No. If however you tie the SERIAL port of your apple to the serial port of >your pc, that will work. Centronics is an 8 bit parallel interface normally >used for printers. Null modems and such are serial - 1 bit at a time. >The two are not compatible without significant electronics between them. >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@calico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 25 20:06:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Cleaning circuits Message-ID: <19980726010638.28013.qmail@hotmail.com> A few questions about clean(ing) circuits: a)Can dust cause any damage to a PCB? Can it short anything? b)What do you recommend for cleaning out PCBs if there's lot of it, or spiderwebs, mold whatever? c)Does distilled water cause rust? d)Can distilled water be used to clean circuits? e)As I understand, tap/spring/rain/etc. water is full of minerals and that's why it's conductive as well as rust-causing f)A while ago, I picked up a bunch of 5.25" diskettes, which I hardly allowed to dry before I put them into the plastic box. Now I looked inside, and mold is spreading from the Microsoft Assembler diskettes onto the Apple II ones. What is safe to use to clean the mold (it's reeely disgusting!)? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 20:49:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... Message-ID: <199807260149.AA26843@world.std.com> < I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I rea < wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort < hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller < < Ideally it would come out the other end in IDE, and I could put one of t < little 1.8 inch 20 meg IDE drives in the thing. Speed is not a huge con < since this is a 4.77mhz XT class machine. If it has ISA bus either JADE, JAMCO or JDR I forget which, sells an ISA-8 bit to standard IDE adaptor. What makes it nice is it has bios support on it. Acculogic made one too at lone time. Allison From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Jul 25 20:51:03 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I believe that's an old Archive Sidewinder, isn't it? The drive + > controller are about the size of an 8" floppy drive. I have one on my > PERQ, and I've got a maintenance manual... It's definately an Archive Corp drive, not sure what model (Havn't pulled it out to check -- the whole machine is in a PDP11/04 Rack :) ) > Assuming the error codes are what the drive reports in bytes 0 and 1 of > the Read Status command, then they don't make much sense. The bits are > defined as : > > So. 96A0 = Write protect error, Unrecoverable data error, Data > transmitted was not block in error, Couldn't find data That COULD be correct, write protect error, I have the write protect on for the tapes, Unrecoverable data error etc is saying "Help, I can't read this tape" > 90C8 = Write protect error, Illegal Command, Beginning of tape. That is also possible, as again write protect, BOT this is after it has retensed the tape and found the BOT marker .. > Alas the Read Status data is produced by the firmware on the tape > controller board, and I don't know much about it. What i'm really worried about is it could be a Multibus problem, I've got the framebuffers out of the Multibus so I can use a serial console, but I've read somewhere that removing the mono-framebuffer un-terminates the multibus. I've got jumper J701 jumpered to allow 3 for the Tapemaster drive (As per the Sun Hardware FAQ) without it jumpered it just gets endless "Protection Bus Errors". Also, I'm not sure if the drive is cactus or if it's the tapes, the drive gives those errors no matter what tape I put in the drive, so I'm suspecting it's a drive problem, i'd like to pull the whole damn thing apart and fix/realign it, how difficult is this? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Jul 25 21:49:07 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... References: <199807260149.AA26843@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BA9923.BDCA902A@halcyon.com> It's JDR, at least, and it's pricey (~$80). I put one of these in an XT a few years ago, and it works like a charm. Even autodetects the hard drive type(s). I've heard of this being found on junk tables for $2-5, because it's not obivous, unless you know what you're looking at, that it's not just another old MFM controller from an XT. Dave Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I rea > < wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort > < hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller > < > < Ideally it would come out the other end in IDE, and I could put one of t > < little 1.8 inch 20 meg IDE drives in the thing. Speed is not a huge con > < since this is a 4.77mhz XT class machine. > > If it has ISA bus either JADE, JAMCO or JDR I forget which, sells an > ISA-8 bit to standard IDE adaptor. What makes it nice is it has bios > support on it. Acculogic made one too at lone time. > > Allison From william at ans.net Sat Jul 25 22:15:59 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs, update Message-ID: Well, it is apparent that lots of people would like those HP150 boards I have. So... How about the interested people submitting bids for the things? Make the bids as silly and insulting as you want, just remember, buyer pays shipping (probably three bucks)! William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 25 22:34:56 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Cleaning circuits Message-ID: <199807260334.AA10942@world.std.com> < A few questions about clean(ing) circuits: < a)Can dust cause any damage to a PCB? Can it short anything? Yes, it can be conductive, block cooling and host molds and fungi. < b)What do you recommend for cleaning out PCBs if there's lot of it, < or spiderwebs, mold whatever? Vacuum with a conductive (carbon/plastic fiber) brush. < c)Does distilled water cause rust? Rust is the product of oxidation. Air is the culprit. Water _may_ instigate electrolisys if not fully dried and power is appiled. < d)Can distilled water be used to clean circuits? Yes. < e)As I understand, tap/spring/rain/etc. water is full of minerals < and that's why it's conductive as well as rust-causing Not enough to be a significant problem if it's dried. I have been known to put grungy boards in the dishwasher. Works very well. The board must be completely dried (160-180F overn works well). < f)A while ago, I picked up a bunch of 5.25" diskettes, which I hardly < allowed to dry before I put them into the plastic box. Now I < looked inside, and mold is spreading from the Microsoft Assembler < diskettes onto the Apple II ones. What is safe to use to clean < the mold (it's reeely disgusting!)? Dish soap and water. Allison From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 25 22:55:18 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I just got an Amstrad ppc 640, and am starting to realise how much I really > > wish this thing had a hard disk - even a little one. Is there ANY sort of > > hard disk solution that will plug into a 720k 3.5inch floppy controller? > > Not that I know of. Your best bet is probably to try to add an XT hard > disk controller onto the 2 expansion connectors. Not exactly trivial (or > portable), but I've never seen an internal hard drive for these machines. If he could come up with an 8-bit HardCard, that might be the easiest solution - assuming that there is room for a full length card to be installed. - don **** snip **** From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Jul 25 23:07:13 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) Message-ID: Further note, I pulled the drive out, it's an archive Corp 9020I Any info would be appreciated Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Jul 25 19:11:36 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: North Star Horizon In-Reply-To: <199807251445.AA03874@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807260408.XAA07190@trailingedge.com> I recently picked up a North Star Horizon. The wood case is a little worn. Anyone have any tips on fixing it up? What type of wood is it? Should I stain it or use regualr wood cleaner or something? Don't want to ruin it. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 26 01:15:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <19980725175347.21227.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > So, can I access the actual data with a non-CP/M comm program? Well, only if the comm-program can transfer the whole raw disk image. Some can (like ProComm). Otherwise, find yourself the utility called ShrinkIt. You use ShrinkIt it compress an entire disk into a single file that you can then transfer to another machine. Max, you should take all these questions to comp.sys.apple2. They are better prepared (I hope) to answer all of these questions. You REALLY need to read a faq, do some research, then ask the questions that you CAN'T find the answers for anywhere else. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 26 01:51:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > So, can I access the actual data with a non-CP/M comm program? > > Well, only if the comm-program can transfer the whole raw disk image. > Some can (like ProComm). Otherwise, find yourself the utility called ^^^^^^^ Sorry, that should be "ProTerm". Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From russmiller at jps.net Sun Jul 26 02:35:50 1998 From: russmiller at jps.net (Russ Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980726003528.009ea9b0@mail.jps.net> I picked up a Grid wall adapter model 39008, 17VDC 1.25A center +, available for shipping cost if anybody needs it.(Sacramento CA area) I don't know what it fits. Russ At 09:55 AM 7/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:16 PM 7/23/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >>Wow, it sounds like somebody just lost their GRiD-virginity. John H. took >>my 1535EXP, so I have to go from memory. It's a 386DX-33 (in a PGA, so > >Yes, I actually flew across the country, broke into his house, grabbed the >mag-alloy 1535 out of his hands, repeatedly beat him over the head with it, >and took off. Doug, you're lucky to be alive after all that. :) Maybe >that's why I'm having problems with the sucker! > >>you can upgrade it via Cyrix/TI/etc) with up to 8MB RAM (low-profile >>SIPs). I think it wants 16-18V DC, center neg. The empty hole will >>accomidate eithe battery or a power supply with an AC plug. > >Yep, that sounds about right. It uses the same power brick my GRiDPad 1912 >uses. BTW, if anyone needs a keyboard adapter cable for their GRiDPad, let >me know. I have 5 extras. > >>The connector on the bottom of the machine plugs into a docking tray, >>which John H. also took and I think was trying to sell last time I >>checked. (John, are you there?) > >I'd rather trade it to someone who can really use it. Even if it works, I >don't really have a use for it, and the 1535 w/8mb is a very usable machine >even without the tray. > >GRiD 1535 BIOS Date: 1989, slightly under the 10 year mark, but these are >such extrordinary machines! > >- >- john higginbotham ____________________________ >- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - >- limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > > From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 26 03:08:12 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: PL/I References Message-ID: <35BAE3EC.564C@konnections.com> Hi All: I'm hoping someone might have spare copies of DR PL/I-86 (CPM86) documents (Reference Manual & Programmer's Manual). I have some good IBM docs but I need platform specific. I don't think I need any 3rd part PL/I manuals yet, but if anyone has some and would like to email the list to me, I'll certainly browse with intent to buy. I'm willing to pay a reasonable proce plus shipping, of course, for any books. I'm also looking for original PL/I programs for microcomputer platforms if anyone has some collecting dust. Thanks, Mike Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 26 03:56:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! Message-ID: Linux world domination continues! Oracle just announced it will be making versions of its products for Linux. Informix is already shipping Linux versions of their database products too! Yeeee ha! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 26 07:16:27 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <003801bdb88f$3d0035e0$5588440c@kroma-i> >All direct cable connection software is capable of using the parallel >port to transfer files. On a PC maybe, but nothing is available for a Apple //. -- Kirk From gene at ehrich.com Sun Jul 26 07:26:20 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: 8 Bit Computer items for sale In-Reply-To: <35B93CC5.C1F0F611@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <199807261221.FAA01628@mxu3.u.washington.edu> I have a lot of old 8 bit hardware and software items for sale on my web site. Two fun Riddles on the home page also. ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 26 08:52:29 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? References: <199807260334.AA10942@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BB349D.ECDFED22@idirect.com> Help? I have 2 power supplies for DEC BA123 boxes which no longer function. I suspect that in each case, something very simple has gone, such as the primary capacitors on the AC/DC convertor hardware (if I am even using the correct vocabulary and referring to something that actually exists). Since I am mostly a dud with a soldering iron and I have no scopes or other tech equipment other than a 30 year old volt meter, I will likely toss the power supplies and keep the rest of the BA123 box as a spare. I am in Toronto. Does anyone want two non-functioning power supplies for a DEC BA123 box. I doubt it would pay to ship anywhere, so I suggest local pickup. I would like to exchange these 2 power supplies for one that works or anything else that could be swapped. But I would be just as happy to get them to a good home rather than seeing them go to a dumpster. If only one person replies, please pick them up. If there is more than one person, I will discuss a swap, but I will not sell them (unless someone offers me a price I can't refuse). Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 08:59:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion In-Reply-To: <19980726004858.10705.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 25, 98 05:48:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1584 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/584df647/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 09:02:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: other things besides floppies... In-Reply-To: <199807260149.AA26843@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 25, 98 09:49:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 410 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/d81cb0f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 09:07:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Problems In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Jul 26, 98 11:51:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1381 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/42268e7d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 09:37:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Jul 26, 98 02:07:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 302 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/10d98a84/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 09:42:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sirius sound Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/7d4e8344/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Jul 26 11:02:45 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980726090245.00e72790@mail.wa.jps.net> At 01:56 26-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >Linux world domination continues! Oracle just announced it will be making >versions of its products for Linux. Informix is already shipping Linux >versions of their database products too! Uhhh... Sam? Old news. I saw that a week ago on www.news.com. ;-) That, of course, doesn't make it any less dee-lightful. Now, if I could only convince the smaller EDA tool vendors to port to Linux... I'm going to be dual-boot until then, unfortunately. My schematic capture/SPICE simulator, and PCB layout programs will only run under NT. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Jul 26 11:04:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? In-Reply-To: <35BB349D.ECDFED22@idirect.com> References: <199807260334.AA10942@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980726090438.00e6c100@mail.wa.jps.net> At 09:52 26-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >Help? I have 2 power supplies for DEC BA123 boxes which >no longer function. I suspect that in each case, something very >simple has gone, such as the primary capacitors on the AC/DC >convertor hardware (if I am even using the correct vocabulary >and referring to something that actually exists). Since I am >mostly a dud with a soldering iron and I have no scopes or >other tech equipment other than a 30 year old volt meter, I Don't give up so easily. I'd wager you have a ham radio club in your area (most cities do). Have you considered enlisting the aid of one of their techies? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Jul 26 11:16:44 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Start by cleaning the head and drive roller. I've done plenty of > electronic repairs and mods on these drives, but never tried to re-align > one. I assume there's an alignment tape (which I've never seen)... The drive roller was a mess, black gunk getting onto the tape casesm fortunately not the tape itself, I cleaned it up a bit and it now seems to turn the tape easier. I'll try cleaning the head tomorrow > You do realise, I assume, that some of these drives were 4 track, not the > later 9 track. You're not trying to read a tape written on a 9-track > drive, are you? I'd say the tapes match the machine, the tapes are marked SunOS 3.2 68010 Export (boot format) and the one time I got SunOS started of the HDD it was the same version exactly. I actually have the HDD backups on 1/2" tape, but none of them are bootable. It is possible the tapes have died, but I heard of the old sysadmin who operated the machine that the tape drive was "not quite right". Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Jul 26 11:18:44 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Alas all the docs I have don't give a model number. > > Can yopu describe the drive. How big is it - 5.25" drive sized, 8" drive > sized, what? And how are the PCBs arranged ? > It is 8" drive sized, in two sections, the front part where the tape goes, with one PCB on the top, which comprises a sub-assembly within the main drive frame, this connects with power and interface cables to another section. which is mounted on the drive frame itself. Hope this helps! Karl From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 26 11:46:40 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: <10 yr question here - 1.8" form factor HDD? References: <35BA0CDE.2688@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35BB5D70.35D6@geocities.com> 1.3" kitty hawk/hawkeye? ok- i'll take a look... this laptop has 2 type II slots, no room for a type III drive because the slots are on separate sides. While proprietary system designs can be interesting, finding parts for them isn't. Thanks for the info guys! -Eric From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 26 11:53:33 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD Message-ID: <35BB5F0D.2CD4@geocities.com> ok, yet another Q for those of you out there who have run across these. anyone have a suggestion for where i might come across a ~20mb RLL drive? 3.5" size, don't have the model #'s on me at the moment although I recall with the toshiba it was a JVC. seems to me from what I could pull off the net that these drives seem to die often. -Eric From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 26 12:27:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Xpost - model 1 available Message-ID: <35BB670B.D81053D6@bbtel.com> Found this on the obsolete computer helpline and thought one or two of you might be interested in a Model 1. Please contact the author of the inquiry at the AOL address direct, not me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- G.R.Sippel Indianapolis, IN US - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 13:17:39 I have a TRS80 Model 1 in very good condition and want to know how much it might be worth. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 26 12:29:51 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Zenith ZWS 248's FS or trade Message-ID: <35BB678D.80269CA1@bbtel.com> Ok, this is a repost since the original responder had to back out for whatever reason... I have some excess Zenith Z248 equipment to get out of my way and would prefer a trade of other equipment for these.. I have two ZDS ZWS 248's, these are the planar units that the 286-12 processor board plugs into. Complete main units with the planar board, power supply, cpu board, I/O board HDD/floppy controller (MFM), MDA video card, drive bay inserts, etc. You need to add drives and it will take any drive from 360k to 1.44m. It takes all sorts of MFM hard drives as well and can probably accomodate an SCSI or ESDI in place of the MFM controller which will allow larger drive types. 512k on the cpu card. They have two open 5.25" bays, one has a filler that can be removed. There's also another identical unit without a power supply. It's a case, planar board, drive bay inserts, 2 I/O boards. Mostly for parts or use to build up with parts you find elsewhere. I need $25 plus shipping for ALL THREE (as a package) or will trade for something that I can use such as cdroms, hard drives, SIMMs, microchannel adapters,etc, etc, etc.... I would really like to get a couple 2X or higher SCSI cdrom drives, caddy type or tray load or larger SCSI hard drives whether full, half, 5.25 or 3.5"... Drop me a line if interested. I also have two ZDS memory cards that work on these to bring the 512k up past 1024k that I would like $10 each or trade for. They are not open to sale/trade until the other units are gone and the new owner decides they don't want them. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 13:48:17 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: LCD interfacing In-Reply-To: <35BB678D.80269CA1@bbtel.com> Message-ID: While shopping for classic portables at a swap meet today, I found an interesting non-classic device: an external flat-panel display. It presents a classic problem, though: how do I interface with a device when I have no docs and can't track down the manufacturer. The thing is labeled "INFOBASE pro executive SYSTEM" and contains a pair of amplified speakers and a Samsung LT133X1 13.3" 1024x768 TFT display (I suspect it's a prototype). There's a 26-pin connector (I think it's called AMP-style, similar to SCSI-2 connectors) and a three-pin power connector. Any idea how I can make this thing go? I think I need an LCD controller card, but I don't know where to find one or how to determine if it can drive this display. ObCC: I also brought home an HP 110, Tandy 600, Mac Portable, NEC PC-8300, and TEC Data-Pad. -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 26 13:59:08 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? In-Reply-To: <35BB349D.ECDFED22@idirect.com> References: <199807260334.AA10942@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Help? I have 2 power supplies for DEC BA123 boxes which >no longer function. I suspect that in each case, something very >simple has gone, such as the primary capacitors on the AC/DC I'd love some info on this myself. One of my Powersupplies has decided to die on me as well. I've not been able to find time to dig into the machine, are the two powersupplies in a BA123 the same or different? My dead one is the one that powers the card cage. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Jul 26 14:08:26 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:31 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <35BB349D.ECDFED22@idirect.com> <199807260334.AA10942@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980726120826.00e67270@mail.wa.jps.net> At 11:59 26-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >>Help? I have 2 power supplies for DEC BA123 boxes which >>no longer function. I suspect that in each case, something very >>simple has gone, such as the primary capacitors on the AC/DC > >I'd love some info on this myself. One of my Powersupplies has decided to >die on me as well. > >I've not been able to find time to dig into the machine, are the two >powersupplies in a BA123 the same or different? My dead one is the one >that powers the card cage. According to my MicroVAX hardware manual, the power supply contains two identical regulators. One handles the odd slots of the backplane, and the disk drives, and the other does the even slots and whatever disk drives are left. Unfortunately, I lack field service prints. There's no telling if they're still going to be available with Compaq's takeover of DEC. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 26 14:13:32 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726090245.00e72790@mail.wa.jps.net> References: Message-ID: >>Linux world domination continues! Oracle just announced it will be making >>versions of its products for Linux. Informix is already shipping Linux >>versions of their database products too! > > Uhhh... Sam? Old news. I saw that a week ago on www.news.com. ;-) Oracle was the final piece in the Puzzle, mainly they were forced into it. I think it was Ingres that started this (might have been Informix). Once one announced a Linux port, the others had to follow, within 2 weeks all three had announced Linux ports. On a simular note, Corel is porting their office suite, including Corel Draw to Linux, and a lot of people are expecting Adobe to respond (I really hope they do). > That, of course, doesn't make it any less dee-lightful. Now, if I could >only convince the smaller EDA tool vendors to port to Linux... I'm going to >be dual-boot until then, unfortunately. My schematic capture/SPICE >simulator, and PCB layout programs will only run under NT. They are on the way. I'm not sure which ones, but some of this has been announced. In the last few months Linux has reached critical mass, and is finally being recognized as a mainstream OS. Having used it since 0.12 it really feels wierd seeing this. Probably the best place to keep up with commercial ports and such things is http://slashdot.org as it provides daily links to all kinds of cool things. BTW anyone that is running a current release of Linux such as RedHat 5.1 and is an Amiga fan should check out Enlightenment 0.14 http://www.enlightenment.org it is the coolest window manager I've seen and a lot better than 0.13. Oh, and on a more classic note, DECnet is finally being added to Linux. There are patches for the latest kernels, and some very basic utilities. I've not tried it yet, but intend to today if I can find the time. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 26 14:21:24 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: I've recently gotten the necessary hardware and software together to transfer Records (16, 33, 45, and 78) to CD. As part of this I was digging through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog music. It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remember when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardware was used for this? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Jul 26 14:30:16 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980726123016.00e693d0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 12:21 26-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >I've recently gotten the necessary hardware and software together to >transfer Records (16, 33, 45, and 78) to CD. As part of this I was digging >through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog music. >Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardware >was used for this? There are doubtless other electronic music experts that can tell you more, but here's what I know (and, as a point of interest, I actually got to look at a Moog synthesizer when they first came out -- I think it was around '68 or '69). A Moog synth, as I understand it, is a huge collection of oscillators that can each be individually tuned and configured to set up about any sort of variation on a sine wave that one could imagine. Frequency, phasing, flanging... all could be altered at will on every single oscillator. Once the oscillators were set up, they were patched through a sequencer and outputted in the desired pattern. It was pretty wild stuff; your average patch bay looked a lot like an old-style cord-and-plug telephone switchboard. OK, Moog folk... how did I do? Considering that this knowledge is based on barely-remembered impressions from when I was 8 or 9. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Jul 26 14:30:28 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980726153018.006c51c0@netpath.net> What's Moog music? At 12:21 PM 7/26/98 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >I've recently gotten the necessary hardware and software together to >transfer Records (16, 33, 45, and 78) to CD. As part of this I was digging >through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog music. >It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remember >when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. > >Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardware >was used for this? > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 14:35:18 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've recently gotten the necessary hardware and software together to > transfer Records (16, 33, 45, and 78) to CD. As part of this I was digging > through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog music. > It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remember > when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. > > Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardware > was used for this? Just a guess: Moog synthesizers :-) Classic analog synths. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 14:49:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726123016.00e693d0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > A Moog synth, as I understand it, is a huge collection of oscillators that > can each be individually tuned and configured to set up about any sort of > variation on a sine wave that one could imagine. Frequency, phasing, > flanging... all could be altered at will on every single oscillator. I'm a software weenie, so caveat emptor: analog synths typically give you a few sources such as sine wave, square wave, saw tooth, and white noise, some VCO's to modify amplitude and frequency, ADSR (attack, delay, sustain, rlease) filters, and other gizmos. They're basically analog computers to which somebody attached a speaker. Op-Amps, which are used a lot in music, were originally designed for analog computers (thus the name, operational amplifiers). -- Doug From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Jul 26 14:50:58 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: Weelll, I can't lurk on this one. Zane, is your record from Norlin Company? If so, it is the (quite rare) demo record that Norlin put out when they bought Moog music from Bob (Moog). I have archived several of these demos, Moog and ARP and Oberhiem. Be careful if you play it, they weren't on the best vinyl. Zane and Bruce: The Moog Modular Synths were just that... a collection of modules of various kinds that one ordered to assemble a complete system... kinda like DEC stuff. There were standard configs available, but you could add-on, mix-match, whatever. The particular instrument I am priveleged to share my studio with is a Model 55 IIIC+ , and was owned by the late Paul Beaver, who used it to make most of the strange sound effects for a small, obscure movie in the late 70s called "Star Wars" or something like that. More detail on them can be found by doing a websearch on "musical instruments, electronic, Moog"... or one can got to www.synthfool.com for a good set of links. ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11 systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the 'childhood' of electronic music. My collection and studio: www.lightsound.org. The site needs updating, but you can see the specs for several classic synththesizers. Cheers John ps: Kennedy 9300 parts / svc manual wanted... Enquire Within. From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Jul 26 14:53:06 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD References: <35BB5F0D.2CD4@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35BB8922.487184E4@halcyon.com> JVC: JD3824ROTO or equivalent (4 heads, 612 cylinders) Try RE-PC in Seattle, WA. http://www.repc.com They have lots of working laptop HDs, but they aren't listed on the Web site. Dave Poesie wrote: > > ok, yet another Q for those of you out there who have run across these. > anyone have a suggestion for where i might come across a ~20mb RLL > drive? 3.5" size, don't have the model #'s on me at the moment although > I recall with the toshiba it was a JVC. seems to me from what I could > pull off the net that these drives seem to die often. > > -Eric From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 14:59:29 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, John Lawson wrote: > ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11 > systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of > Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the > 'childhood' of electronic music. That would be cool, but wasn't Csound used to drive pure digital stuff? My college roommate was one of the musician/developers at CME's CARL in the early 80's, and I think there setup was a mix of DEC and Sun and a bunch of DACs. -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Sun Jul 26 15:24:29 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: PL/I References Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4EE@mail.simconv.com> >I'm also looking for original PL/I programs for microcomputer platforms >if anyone has some collecting dust. Do you mean compilers (I think DR was the only one to do PL/I), or do you mean application programs for an 8086 that used PL/I? I used the DR compiler to do a sports handicapping system and a mailing list system. It used DR's Acess Manager for the ISAM file system, and DR's Display Manager to draw forms on terminals. It ran on an 80286 based Concurrent DOS (aka MP/M II) custom built S-100 system. I believe I still have the source code somewhere, if that's what you are looking for. Jack Peacock From deker at digitaladdiction.com Sun Jul 26 15:29:18 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've recently gotten the necessary hardware and software together to > transfer Records (16, 33, 45, and 78) to CD. As part of this I was digging > through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog music. > It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remember > when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. > > Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardware > was used for this? > You might try asking Bob Moog himself. He is running a company now that manufactures theremins. I believe that his website is at http://www.bigbriar.com. rob From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 26 16:04:44 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: New finds from the weekend Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980726160444.006a1bcc@pop3.concentric.net> A little slow again but I'll keep looking. Found the following items on Friday and Saturday: 1) 386 tower loaded, cdrom, 51/4 and 3.5 FD's, sound card, fax/modem, and all for $15 at Goodwill; 2) Mac 512k MB for $5 just to get a MacSnap SCSI board by DOVE that was mounded on it; 3) Manual for Xerox 6060 family of machines Free; 4) HP2686A laserjet service manual; 5) HP2663A Technical reference manual; 6) Model 950 kb .80 at thrift; 7) Mac Plus mouse .80 at thrift; 8) Mac HD20 M0135 that hooks to the FD port for 3.83 at thrift; 9) EPSON EQUITY III with plus II XL hardcard in it, and a internal tape backup unit for 4.04 at thrift; 10) KAYPRO CP/M manual dated Jan 1978 for 1.00 at thrift; 11) KAYPRO II user's guide dated Feb 1983 for 1.00 at thrift; 12) Z81 at thrift for free; 13) Atari Super Pong Console model TV-190 at thrift for free; 14) Mac 128k KB for free; 15) VIC 20 power supply free; 16) Vic20 cartridges- PacMan, Raid on Fort Knox, Doney Kong, Demon Attack all free at thrift; 17) TRS80 26-3022 Color computer mini disk ext FD unit free; 18) box full of about 6 different apple II cards for free; 19) HP D1182A VGA monitor made in 1988 but works great for .80 at thrift; 20) NEC PC-8201A with printer and amanuals for $10; 21) CRT tube tester model 159 with manual and very old $12 not tested yet made by Acurate Instrument Co. of Bronk NY no date anywhere; 22) and several ohter items too new to talk about here for now. That it for now keep computing John From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Jul 26 16:27:07 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726090245.00e72790@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <13374821191.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Linux World Domination] Y'know, once we get that user-friendly stuff happening, we're gonna kick windows's ass. User friendly + reliable + free = the next killer O/S. Windows will simply have no way to compete and still turn a profit. Windows = Windows 95/98/NT/whatever-else-MS-can-tack-on-here. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Jul 26 16:27:33 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726090245.00e72790@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <13374821271.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Oops, that was meant for Sam... ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 26 17:04:43 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Zane, is your record from Norlin Company? If so, it is the (quite Nope, it's "The Synthesizer, Featuring Dick Hyman at The Moog", from Command (ABC Records) 1973. > The particular instrument I am priveleged to share my studio with >is a Model 55 IIIC+ , and was owned by the late Paul Beaver, who used >it to make most of the strange sound effects for a small, obscure >movie in the late 70s called "Star Wars" or something like that. I noticed that some of the sounds, were like the laser blast effects in Star Wars, which I found surprising as I remember watching a "Making of..." back in about 1980 that showed them hitting a guide wire for a radio antenna to get that same sound. > ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11 >systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of >Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the >'childhood' of electronic music. This must be what I was thinking of, I thought I remembered the Moog having something to do with the PDP11. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From mbg at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 17:13:43 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <199807262213.AA13549@world.std.com> >Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of >hardware was used for this? Moog synthesizers... 'Moog' is not the kind of music ("Hey, let me put on some moog music."), rather it is the name of the inventer of the synthesizer. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 17:25:32 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807262225.AA18495@world.std.com> > Zane, is your record from Norlin Company? If so, it is the (quite >rare) demo record that Norlin put out when they bought Moog music >from Bob (Moog). I have archived several of these demos, Moog and >ARP and Oberhiem. Be careful if you play it, they weren't on the >best vinyl. Thanks... I couldn't remember Bob's first name... When I was at WPI in the mid-70s, I got a chance to work with the Arp AX and Odyssey (and a few others for which I forget names) to produce some music which was used in a theatrical production on campus (Beltold Brecht's Gallileo)... I loved getting chances to work on those things... > ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11 >systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of >Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the >'childhood' of electronic music. About a decade ago, a few friends of mine and I played with some pdp-11 controlled music generation. We got a bunch of the TI sound generation controllers and one person (who was adept at IC circuit design) designed us a circuit for controlling a set of these units from a DR11C (16-bit parallel output). I still have one prototyped at home... it allowed up to 9 voices (three voices/chip, 3 chips) of sound, and 3 voices of percussion. Someone else got ahold of the Stanford music software for the pdp-10 and wrote a pdp-11 version of it... we had it playing a bunch of the old stanford songs, and I entered a few more (like Scott Joplin's "Crush Collision Rag"). Since the hardware connected to the AC lights of the -10 was called the MK10, we called our board the MK11... Somewhere I have the schematic for it... Later on, another friend (hi, Allison) designed a DLV11-J to MIDI interface... I have a couple of Casio CT101 synthesizers and a sequencer... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 26 17:33:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Xpost: Commie stuff (VIC 20's too) Message-ID: <35BBAECB.AB308922@bbtel.com> Wasn't someone looking for Vic 20's for their collections? (Dan???) I'm sure this person will part out what they have even though they think they may be able to get a package offer. Contact them at the Erols.Com address listed below. ---------------------------------------- Linda Ballard Stafford, VA Stafford - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 17:41:21 We currently own six C64 computers, seven 1541s, two C128s, two Vic 20s, several monitors, Amigas, printers, etc. and would like to know who to contact regading selling all our C64 and Amiga equipment. We have tons of games and mag- azines also. All are in great condition (some never used). We would like to clear out our playroom so would prefer to sell everything all at once and not one piece at a time. Contact us for details. -------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Jul 26 17:59:41 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! References: Message-ID: <35BBB4DD.7D98E3F3@exit109.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >>Linux world domination continues! Oracle just announced it will be making > >>versions of its products for Linux. Informix is already shipping Linux > >>versions of their database products too! > > > > Uhhh... Sam? Old news. I saw that a week ago on www.news.com. ;-) > > Oracle was the final piece in the Puzzle, mainly they were forced into it. > I think it was Ingres that started this (might have been Informix). Once > one announced a Linux port, the others had to follow, within 2 weeks all > three had announced Linux ports. Ingress was the first. Now, am I mistaken, or has Sybase been awfully quiet on this issue? > On a simular note, Corel is porting their office suite, including Corel > Draw to Linux, and a lot of people are expecting Adobe to respond (I really > hope they do). Not too surprising, since WordPerfect has been on Unix/Linux for some time. <<>> From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Sun Jul 26 18:21:17 1998 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor Message-ID: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE5ED@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting the pieces needed to get it running? -- Tony From adept at mcs.com Sun Jul 26 18:29:57 1998 From: adept at mcs.com (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Xpost: Commie stuff (VIC 20's too) References: <35BBAECB.AB308922@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35BBBBF5.9EE945FE@mcs.com> Wasn't me. I've got too many. :) Dan Russ Blakeman wrote: > Wasn't someone looking for Vic 20's for their collections? (Dan???) I'm > sure this person will part out what they have even though they think > they may be able to get a package offer. Contact them at the Erols.Com > address listed below. > > ---------------------------------------- > Linda Ballard > Stafford, VA Stafford - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 17:41:21 > > We currently own six C64 computers, seven 1541s, two C128s, > two Vic 20s, several monitors, Amigas, printers, etc. and > would like to know who to contact regading selling all our > C64 and Amiga equipment. We have tons of games and mag- > azines also. All are in great condition (some never used). > We would like to clear out our playroom so would prefer to > sell everything all at once and not one piece at a time. > Contact us for details. > > -------------------------------- > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 16:22:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726090438.00e6c100@mail.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 26, 98 09:04:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/8b164eca/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 16:32:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Jul 27, 98 02:18:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/a9767dec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 26 17:01:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 26, 98 11:59:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/5584d1af/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 18:38:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: PL/I References Message-ID: <199807262338.AA19653@world.std.com> REQUESTED BY: mallison@konnections.com < I'm hoping someone might have spare copies of DR PL/I-86 (CPM86) < documents (Reference Manual & Programmer's Manual). Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm It was down for a few days, if it's not up check the mirror. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 18:38:56 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? Message-ID: <199807262338.AA19911@world.std.com> < Help? I have 2 power supplies for DEC BA123 boxes which < no longer function. I suspect that in each case, something very < simple has gone, such as the primary capacitors on the AC/DC Don't ditch the failed supplies. They can be hard and expensive to find. First failure mode on them is overheat due to failed fan. Usually that takes the internal fuse. Open with care as the caps in them can hold a lethal charge. Rare is the failure of the caps from what I've seen. The high voltage chopper transistor or the input rectifiers are more likely to be suspect. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 18:39:20 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Possible to fix a BA123 power supply? Message-ID: <199807262339.AA20009@world.std.com> < I've not been able to find time to dig into the machine, are the two < powersupplies in a BA123 the same or different? My dead one is the one < that powers the card cage. < Zane, thy both power the card cage each one a different part of it. Running on one is bad. Do inspect them for fan failures and blown fuses. Also if one or the other is not loaded enough it's may not start up! Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 18:39:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <199807262339.AA20063@world.std.com> through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog mus < It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remembe < when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. < < Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardw < was used for this? Most of the early Moog work was done an ANALOG synths using multitrack recording as most were not polytonic machines. Names of people who did commercial work were Wendy Carlos, Iaso Tomita and Claude Denjean to name some in my collection (Vinyl). The classic was Switched on Bach, Carlos. Some had primitive sequencers but it would not be until the late 70s that the computer->synth connection would start to really get out of the lab. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 19:11:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: <199807262339.AA20009@world.std.com> Message-ID: OK, I feel like an idiot. Could somebody tell me where the power switch is located on a Kaypro 2000? -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 26 19:37:23 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NES ROB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cool. I just picked up a Nintendo ROB (robotic operating buddy). The web tells me this thing only worked with a couple of games: Gyromite and Stack-up. I don't have either of these games. I'd like to see ROB in action -- does anybody have one of these games they'd like to sell or trade? If, like me, you've never heard of this toy before, try: http://www.internet1.net/~nesworld/rob.htm -- Doug From thomas100 at home.com Sun Jul 26 17:18:22 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor Message-ID: <199807270153.RAA25772@next.ireadyco.com> The main problem with these machines is that they are still so heavily used that noone wants to give up the media (cd-roms, etc). You can try comp.sys.next.marketplace. There are also some websites... http://www.orb.com and http://www.deepspacetech.com. Mostly what you probably need is a >300 mb standard SCSI harddrive, a cd-rom player that works with that machine [there are many but not all work] and the cd-rom media (NeXTStep 3.3 is probably the best). If you were near me I'd tell you just to come by and I'd do a builddisk for you. Perhaps someone else will offer. $25 was a good deal- last time I checked they were still going for a couple hundred. Poor kid! Once you get it working there's tons of software around for it, some of it the best quality available... try http://peanuts.leo.org and http://www.peak.org/next. The machines, although great performers for their time are getting slow by today's standards. Because of that, and the fact that Mac OS X Server (aka Rhapsody) is somewhat available, the prices should be dropping lower. Thomas Begin forwarded message: From: Anthony Eros Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:21:17 -0400 To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN X-To: "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting the pieces needed to get it running? -- Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1911 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980726/d5a557f8/attachment.bin From thomas100 at home.com Sun Jul 26 17:25:52 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 [the Delorean of computers] In-Reply-To: <199807262339.AA20009@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807270200.SAA25778@next.ireadyco.com> Hi, I have one of these somewhere but not handy. I don't remember what the deal is with the switch but I do recall that the one I bought had the batteries taken out of it and replaced with a power supply. I got the impression from the owner that the system originally trickle-charged the batteries as the unit ran. Without the batteries I think it would not work unless you take the back section apart and rewire it. It is _very_ nice early-PC machinismo. The quality of industrial design put into the unit has rarely been matched. Back-lit display and the whole deal. I guess you could call it the DeLorean of early MS-DOS compatibles. :-) Hope this helps... Thomas From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Jul 26 20:19:45 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Firstly the trap for the unwary. The power connector _looks_ like a > floppy drive connector, but it isn't. It's +5V (for the logic) and +24V > (for the motors). Be careful if you're swapping drives, etc. Thanks for that :) > The drive mechanism has 2 boards. Most of the logic, including an 8048 > microcontroller, is on the top board. On the bottom of the drive there's > a second board that contains the motor control circuit. It talks via > QIC36 interface to a 2-board set mounted on the frame called the > Intellegent Controller. This contains another 8048 (some actually have a > daugtherboard with an 8035 or 8039 + EPROM in place of it) and a lot of > TTL to handle the data conversions. The microcontroller handles drive > control, etc, but it doesn't really do much with the data. > Clean the head as you suggested. Clean and reseat the interface cables at > both ends. And try again. > > You might be right about the multibus problem. Is there any way you can > run this thing with the framebuffer card installed? Ok, I managed to work out how to get into the serial console with the frame buffer installed, so that problem is eliminated, i've noticed it now behaves correctly with the CBRQ jumper open (which is the way is should be), which is something it wasn't doing before. I'll give the heads a clean tonight and report back Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Jul 26 20:27:24 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog more on-topic Message-ID: I certainly do not want to propagate any more off-topic stuff, so maybe e-mail would be mo bettah. Having said that: The Model III that I have was used primarily for R2D2, some of the ancillary robot, droid and creature noises, and a lot of the tracks for the Alien Roadhouse Band, etc., etc. Thus I was told by the previous owner, and corroborated by one of the editors who worked on the pic. Csound *is* in the digital domain, but it's output needs to be made into a voltage somewhere; the early PDP11 versions used the DACs of the day... in fact MUSIC IV was used entirely offline, one coded the program, punched cards, waited until the (lowest-priority) job was run [to tape], the the tape(s) were taken to another facility to be rendered through DACs to am analog recording. *Then* you debugged... Zane, I would like very much to have an (archival only, honest!) CD copy of the Hyman recording. BACK ON TOPIC PART: I would love to locate some 70a vintage DACS, prferably standalone boxes, or more DAC cards for my MINC. I am trying to consolidate all the info/software/hardware I can around the DEC Mini line and music. I have a wonderful picture of a PDP-5 system running a music notation and translation interface for MUSIC IV at Bell Labs in the late 60s. It then sent code to an IBM 7094, which output a tape to another machine, referred to only as a "PB 250 Computer" [Pitney Bowes?] [Packard Bell?] which acted as the translator and DAC. I have soundsheets in the book of music realized on this machine, and I'll put them up on my FTP site any day now... (Thanks to Marvin, from whom I stole the book) Damn, drifting off topic again... sigh. I guess I should output a list of my collection.... Nah, too bleedin' hot right now. Cheers to all John From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Jul 26 20:31:21 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? Message-ID: <199807270131.SAA03303@saul1.u.washington.edu> I've been tinkering with my Kaypro to try to eliminate the errors that drive B has been giving me. Putting in a new floppy drive didn't seem to fix them; I wonder if it's the cable? (As is, the Kaypro supports two drives (SA400 or equivalent). The original owner bought a little hardware thingie that does something to the drive-select signals to add support for four drives; he also added a connector to the cable for drive C between A's and B's connectors. I currently have no drive C, and only drive B is giving me problems -- that's why I suspect the cable.) So I bought a new cable. It has that stupid half-twist, so I'm wondering how to coax my system into working with the new cable. I think I understand the situation from the point of view of the drives (both drives are jumpered as #1, and some pins are exchanged: 10 <-> 16, 11 <-> 15, 12 <-> 14). But doesn't the computer have to cooperate in this farce? That is, would I have to reprogram my BIOS to mess things up in the same way as the IBM PC's hardware, so that the drive cable can do its part and thus it all ends up (sort of) working? It's worth trying the new cable (though it seems rather cheap, and there's a break in the insulation, though that could be because I dropped it on a concrete floor at the store). But if it's too much trouble, I'll skip it. Incidentally: God damn IBM for cutting corners this way, and making people think shenanigans like this are totally normal and to be expected, and messing with a perfectly reasonable interface. -- Derek From jrice at texoma.net Sun Jul 26 20:35:22 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor References: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE5ED@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: <35BBD95A.52FF1176@texoma.net> I just bought a Color Turbo with Trinitron monitor, laser printer, keyboard, sound box, all cables but no mouse for $100.00. had to get around the root password. I need manuals, as there was no doc with it. Also need docs for Wordperfect for NeXT as there seems to be a problem with the keyboard drivers in wordperfect. James Anthony Eros wrote: > > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > the pieces needed to get it running? > > -- Tony From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 20:33:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807270133.AA18339@world.std.com> < I still have one prototyped at home... it allowed up to 9 voices < (three voices/chip, 3 chips) of sound, and 3 voices of percussion. I happen to have the DEC internal card for the Q-bus Ey-0105E-ms-101 (AKA Gigilo), uses two GI-AY-3-8912 sound chips. I also have some of the PDP-11 software to drive it. I don't have a schematic for it or the specs for the sound chips however I do have a few sources for the music play software (asm a upower pascal). I also have the honor of meeting Carlos in an old wherehouse and sound lab on Long Island back in 1973 when the company I was with was moving in to the facility. There was some amazing old junk left behind like old audio power amps with 807s and 813s... It was just down the block from SUNY farmingdale. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 26 20:39:38 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? Message-ID: <19980727013939.3246.qmail@hotmail.com> First of all, I believe it could be untwisted by pulling off the back cover of the connector and pulling the cable off. Also, I believe the IBM controllers walk fine with jumper-selected drives, just that everyone uses the half twist thing. >I've been tinkering with my Kaypro to try to eliminate the errors that drive B >has been giving me. Putting in a new floppy drive didn't seem to fix them; >I wonder if it's the cable? (As is, the Kaypro supports two drives (SA400 or >equivalent). The original owner bought a little hardware thingie that does >something to the drive-select signals to add support for four drives; he also >added a connector to the cable for drive C between A's and B's connectors. >I currently have no drive C, and only drive B is giving me problems -- that's >why I suspect the cable.) > >So I bought a new cable. It has that stupid half-twist, so I'm wondering how >to coax my system into working with the new cable. I think I understand the >situation from the point of view of the drives (both drives are jumpered as >#1, and some pins are exchanged: 10 <-> 16, 11 <-> 15, 12 <-> 14). >But doesn't the computer have to cooperate in this farce? That is, would I >have to reprogram my BIOS to mess things up in the same way as the IBM PC's >hardware, so that the drive cable can do its part and thus it all ends up >(sort of) working? > >It's worth trying the new cable (though it seems rather cheap, and there's a >break in the insulation, though that could be because I dropped it on a >concrete floor at the store). But if it's too much trouble, I'll skip it. > >Incidentally: God damn IBM for cutting corners this way, and making people >think shenanigans like this are totally normal and to be expected, and messing >with a perfectly reasonable interface. > >-- Derek > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 26 20:52:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Moog more on-topic Message-ID: <199807270152.AA28177@world.std.com> < which output a tape to another machine, referred to only as a "PB < 250 Computer" [Pitney Bowes?] [Packard Bell?] which acted as the Packard Bell, I know where there is a 250 even! FYI I have a vinyl of early computer music some of which was rendered in such a way as you describe. I picked it up at PCC'76 or maybe 77. Back then there were a lot of different efforts to render computer music. Some were quite interesting but the best of the day was from the people with the blue boards that called themselves SSM or Solid State Music. Allison From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 26 21:11:39 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: PL/I References References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4EE@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: <35BBE1DB.5EB1@konnections.com> JacK Sorry, I re-read that myself and it wasn't clear. (2am and all...) I was looking specifically for compilers and compiler centered info. I have stacks of programs and some good references but they aren't specific to DRi's compiler. I'll take any help I can get, however.. Thanks a lot, Mike Jack Peacock wrote: > > >I'm also looking for original PL/I programs for microcomputer platforms > >if anyone has some collecting dust. > > Do you mean compilers (I think DR was the only one to do PL/I), or do > you mean application programs for an 8086 that used PL/I? I used the DR > compiler to do a sports handicapping system and a mailing list system. > It used DR's Acess Manager for the ISAM file system, and DR's Display > Manager to draw forms on terminals. It ran on an 80286 based Concurrent > DOS (aka MP/M II) custom built S-100 system. I believe I still have the > source code somewhere, if that's what you are looking for. > Jack Peacock From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 26 21:20:53 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor References: <199807270153.RAA25772@next.ireadyco.com> Message-ID: <35BBE405.7133@konnections.com> I spent over 100.00 for NS 3.3 OS & Programming Env just about a year ago. That was weeks AFTER I started looking for it. You can get it for 25 or 50 buck if you can find it. -Mike Thomas Pfaff wrote: > > The main problem with these machines is that they are still so heavily > used that noone wants to give up the media (cd-roms, etc). You can try > comp.sys.next.marketplace. There are also some websites... > http://www.orb.com and http://www.deepspacetech.com. > > Mostly what you probably need is a >300 mb standard SCSI harddrive, a > cd-rom player that works with that machine [there are many but not all > work] and the cd-rom media (NeXTStep 3.3 is probably the best). > > If you were near me I'd tell you just to come by and I'd do a > builddisk for you. Perhaps someone else will offer. $25 was a good > deal- last time I checked they were still going for a couple hundred. > Poor kid! > > Once you get it working there's tons of software around for it, some > of it the best quality available... try http://peanuts.leo.org and > http://www.peak.org/next. > > The machines, although great performers for their time are getting > slow by today's standards. Because of that, and the fact that Mac OS X > Server (aka Rhapsody) is somewhat available, the prices should be > dropping lower. > > Thomas > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Anthony Eros > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:21:17 -0400 > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > X-To: "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" > > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had > > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of > course) > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > the pieces needed to get it running? > > -- Tony From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 26 21:24:54 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor References: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE5ED@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: <35BBE4F6.3CCE@konnections.com> Check with deep space technologies and see if they're still in the biz. They treated me nice... very smart on NeXT hardware. Mike (I really don't know the address...) Anthony Eros wrote: > > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > the pieces needed to get it running? > > -- Tony From mallison at konnections.com Sun Jul 26 21:29:00 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: PL/I References References: <199807262338.AA19653@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BBE5EC.67B4@konnections.com> Thanks, I did already check with Tim and the lads at the site. Plenty of binaries, no docs. Too bad too cause it's just what I need. Thanks, Mike Allison J Parent wrote: > > REQUESTED BY: mallison@konnections.com > > < I'm hoping someone might have spare copies of DR PL/I-86 (CPM86) > < documents (Reference Manual & Programmer's Manual). > > Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. > MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm > > It was down for a few days, if it's not up check the mirror. > > Allison From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 26 21:26:22 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? References: <199807270131.SAA03303@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35BBE54E.D315DA92@rain.org> D. Peschel wrote: > > I've been tinkering with my Kaypro to try to eliminate the errors that > drive B > has been giving me. Putting in a new floppy drive didn't seem to fix > them; Have you tried swaping drive A and B to see if the "problem" drive changes? As far as the IBM twisted cable is concerned, the connector after the twist just changes the effect of the drive select line jumper. Assuming the drives are both set at drive sel 1, the twist just changes the drive sel 1 to drive sel 0 (i.e. the end is drive A and the non-twisted part is drive B.) Also IDC connectors and ribbon cable are readily available and it is not a problem to make up new cables (although somewhat more expensive than the mass produced IBM cables.) I have seen the drive select lines from the controller go bad although rarely. From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 26 21:54:06 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: hardware keys? Message-ID: <35BBEA90.4D14@geocities.com> does anyone have any experience using hardware copyright keys? I picked up a couple copies of some software from a thrift shop today and some of them ask for hardware keys- the most info i can find is something about serial card plugs? It didn't have them in the box, and I couldn't track down any info on who donated them. am I completely out of luck ? It seems to me that I would have to buy a whole copy from the original seller of the software, but I doubt they're still in business. any info? -Eric From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Jul 26 21:59:52 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: hardware keys? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980726225939.006acbc0@netpath.net> If you want to go the underground route, there are cracking programs that defeat the hardware (dongle) locks on some programs. But I'm not suggesting that you do it or anything. At 09:54 PM 7/26/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >does anyone have any experience using hardware copyright keys? I picked >up a couple copies of some software from a thrift shop today and some of >them ask for hardware keys- the most info i can find is something about >serial card plugs? It didn't have them in the box, and I couldn't track >down any info on who donated them. am I completely out of luck ? It >seems to me that I would have to buy a whole copy from the original >seller of the software, but I doubt they're still in business. any info? > >-Eric > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun Jul 26 22:20:19 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users In-Reply-To: <199807251604.AA07996@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807270320.NAA08925@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:04 PM 25-07-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: >Actually there was DECnet-8! Dual processor machines were not uncommon. Any further information (or pointers) to either DECnet-8 or dual processor -8s would be of interest. Was DECnet-8 compatible with later DECnets (Phase III or IV)? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 26 22:53:11 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <199807262339.AA20009@world.std.com> Message-ID: >OK, I feel like an idiot. Could somebody tell me where the power switch >is located on a Kaypro 2000? > >-- Doug Whoa, it's been a long time. That was my first PC compatible back when they were available new. IIRC the power switch is one the right side, and the button looks like part of the ribed rubber thing around the middle. What made it nice was the 4 hour battery! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 26 23:16:32 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > OK, I feel like an idiot. Could somebody tell me where the power switch > is located on a Kaypro 2000? Top center, just below the LCD screen, Doug. - don From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 27 00:30:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:32 2005 Subject: hardware keys? References: <35BBEA90.4D14@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35BC1074.59E1AC3D@bbtel.com> What type machines are they from....on Commodore most dongles were merely a resistor across a couple pins, we used to use paperclips to accomplish the same thing. On some older ones you may find some hardware defeats openly available on the net with a little searching... Poesie wrote: > does anyone have any experience using hardware copyright keys? I picked > up a couple copies of some software from a thrift shop today and some of > them ask for hardware keys- the most info i can find is something about > serial card plugs? It didn't have them in the box, and I couldn't track > down any info on who donated them. am I completely out of luck ? It > seems to me that I would have to buy a whole copy from the original > seller of the software, but I doubt they're still in business. any info? > > -Eric -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 27 00:31:52 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Xpost: Commie stuff (VIC 20's too) References: <35BBAECB.AB308922@bbtel.com> <35BBBBF5.9EE945FE@mcs.com> Message-ID: <35BC10C7.E00028B6@bbtel.com> I realized that shortly after I wrote the message to the list. Well someone may find it useful. The Adept wrote: > Wasn't me. I've got too many. :) > > Dan > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Wasn't someone looking for Vic 20's for their collections? (Dan???) I'm > > sure this person will part out what they have even though they think > > they may be able to get a package offer. Contact them at the Erols.Com > > address listed below. > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Linda Ballard > > Stafford, VA Stafford - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 17:41:21 > > > > We currently own six C64 computers, seven 1541s, two C128s, > > two Vic 20s, several monitors, Amigas, printers, etc. and > > would like to know who to contact regading selling all our > > C64 and Amiga equipment. We have tons of games and mag- > > azines also. All are in great condition (some never used). > > We would like to clear out our playroom so would prefer to > > sell everything all at once and not one piece at a time. > > Contact us for details. > > > > -------------------------------- > > > > -- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > ICQ UIN #1714857 > > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 27 00:40:08 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > OK, I feel like an idiot. Could somebody tell me where the power switch > > is located on a Kaypro 2000? > > Top center, just below the LCD screen, Doug. Either my switch is missing or I'm thick as a brick. On the top is the detachable keyboard, the pop-up floppy, a cubby with the keyboard cable, a partition between the two, LCD hinges, the LCD release latch, and the LCD itself. There's a handle and DC plug in the back. There's a serial port on the left side covered by the bumper strip, and there're modem jacks and a bus connector on the bottom. Can you give me another landmark for where the switch should be? -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 27 00:53:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! In-Reply-To: <13374821191.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [Linux World Domination] > > Y'know, once we get that user-friendly stuff happening, we're gonna > kick windows's ass. > > User friendly + reliable + free = the next killer O/S. > Windows will simply have no way to compete and still turn a profit. One name: ApplixWare. Go find it and install it. That'll provide you with all the user-friendliness you want. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 27 01:03:00 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS Message-ID: <35BC1812.34860E44@bbtel.com> Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that obsoletes may become viable resources again using DR-DOS but at present I haven't had a chance to download the trial and run it on a 286. Im sure someone here is deeply into it.- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 25 21:04:49 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807270607.CAA09996@smtp.interlog.com> On 26 Jul 98 at 15:04, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Zane, is your record from Norlin Company? If so, it is the (quite > > Nope, it's "The Synthesizer, Featuring Dick Hyman at The Moog", from > Command (ABC Records) 1973. > I also have a Dick Hyman MOOG record subtitled " The Electric Eclectics of Dick Hyman" Command 983. Is that the same one ? He was more noted for his jazz-tinged piano. Quite an excellent player. Most people would be more aware of the "Captain" from Captain and Tenille who did "Muscrat Love" and like Stephen Stills used a Mini-Moog in performance as well as on their TV show. I'm the proud owner of a Moog Prodigy which used 2 osscillators as opposed to the 3 in the mini. Does the various sine wave conversions and the controlled outputs, with 1 hand-wheel to control pitch and another to control volume when in performance. The analogue synth has had a resurgence of interest the last 4 or 5 years , since ,like tube amps , it has a more ambient(?) sound. Unfortunately, the adaptors to change the output to digital and hence Midi are quite expensive. I'm still waiting to find a second hand one or a Hack in order to hook it up to my Atari. > > The particular instrument I am priveleged to share my studio with > >is a Model 55 IIIC+ , and was owned by the late Paul Beaver, who used > >it to make most of the strange sound effects for a small, obscure > >movie in the late 70s called "Star Wars" or something like that. > Never heard of it. :^)) I saw my first full Moog set-up in the early 70's in a studio when I had a roady business. I've never been so intimidated by hi-tech in my life. They had 2 walls of equipment with enough patch cords to keep a "Stones" tour supplied for a year. > I noticed that some of the sounds, were like the laser blast effects in > Star Wars, which I found surprising as I remember watching a "Making of..." > back in about 1980 that showed them hitting a guide wire for a radio > antenna to get that same sound. > What you didn't see on screen was likely the equipment they used to manipulate that sound. Or the work it took to patch in that equipment. My son , who's a big movie and a music buff , just informed me that the guide wire thing was done in SWII which didn't use the Moog. > > ObCLASSICCMP: One of my intentions for at least one of my PDP11 > >systems is to interface it to my Moog, and obtain an old copy of > >Csound or the like.. to recreate an exact environment from the > >'childhood' of electronic music. > Wow ! I'm impressed . If I ever get down Cal way I'd love to see it. Damn ! Does this mean I have to get into mini's now ? You DEC people are insidious. . > This must be what I was thinking of, I thought I remembered the Moog having > something to do with the PDP11. > > Zane This thread inspired me enough to dig out this record. I'm listening to Hyman's "Topless Dancers of Corfu " at this instant. Listening to it does remind me of the "S-Wars" sound Track. I hadn't realized it was done on a Moog. Did Paul Beaver also do some of the music ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 27 01:09:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog more on-topic In-Reply-To: <199807270152.AA28177@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > Back then there were a lot of different efforts to render computer music. > Some were quite interesting but the best of the day was from the people > with the blue boards that called themselves SSM or Solid State Music. What's the deal with SSM? I have several boards by them that are simply RAM or disk controllers or something (forget exactly) but I imagine from the name they made S-100 music synthesizer boards as well. I think I remember reading somewhere about such a board but am not sure. Can someone fill in the blanks here? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/21/98] From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 27 02:53:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > Top center, just below the LCD screen, Doug. Oh, now I get it. The switch is hidden beneath the LCD and lifting the LCD all the way up is supposed to trigger the switch. So, now I just have to figure out why it's not powering up. Probably a dead battery. -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 27 06:41:35 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs Message-ID: <199807270927.LAA16759@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what? >> Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC? > Why not start with the key similarities, it's a shorter list. > They both had 8088s and ran MS-DOS. OK, there you go. > The original HP150 looks like a 9" CRT in a box, with a keyboard > attached via coiled cord that goes to the back. Typically there would > be an HP-IB disc drive of some sort (probably with a 91xx model > number) around, most likely using 3.5" stiffies because HP was an > early adopter of the Sony 90mm medium, but even without that the 150 > can be used as a terminal (it mostly looks like an HP2623A monochrome > graphics terminal). Thats the reason why a lot of people can't guess the processor - they always open the Disk unit and can't find any x86 type chip :) Gruss H. BTW: I'm looking for a set of System Disks for the 150. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 27 06:41:35 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Apple ][ file conversion Message-ID: <199807270927.LAA16762@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Can I make use of the Centronics interface? What type of 'serial car' > do you recommend? Can I use my Apple //c w/serial port but w/o CP/M? No, or at least not without doing some own programming (the Paralell boards for the ][ uses 652x devices in most cases). Yes, the Serial of the //c is an ordinary, build in Super Serial Card. But the //c will read CP/M files only in RAW mode - so any nibble copy programm (or even RWTS programms) can copy CP/M disks from DOS (>3.2, 16 Sector DOS) or ProDOS. If you want to copy CP/M files logicaly (I think thats what you need for transfer) you could only use the CP/M environment. The best way is to put a SSC in an ][, ][+ or //e boot CP/M and use MODEM7 for Transfer (and _ANY_ programm on the PC :) You could also use any other serial card, if it is supported by your CP/M - But its hard to find anything not SSC compatible .) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Jul 26 00:35:04 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS In-Reply-To: <35BC1812.34860E44@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807270937.FAA21750@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Jul 98 at 1:03, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it > actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that > obsoletes may become viable resources again using DR-DOS but at present > I haven't had a chance to download the trial and run it on a 286. Im > sure someone here is deeply into it.- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman I've got it installed on my PS/2 8580 along with OS/2 , using Boot Manager, and I run GEM on it as well , no MSDOS. Doesn't seem any different really from MSDOS. I haven't used it that much since installing it tho. It works fine with Interlink . ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Jul 26 00:35:03 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: <199807270133.AA18339@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807270937.FAA21779@smtp.interlog.com> On 26 Jul 98 at 21:33, Allison J Parent wrote: > < I still have one prototyped at home... it allowed up to 9 voices > < (three voices/chip, 3 chips) of sound, and 3 voices of percussion. > > I happen to have the DEC internal card for the Q-bus Ey-0105E-ms-101 > (AKA Gigilo), uses two GI-AY-3-8912 sound chips. I also have some of the > PDP-11 software to drive it. > > I don't have a schematic for it or the specs for the sound chips however I > do have a few sources for the music play software (asm a upower pascal). > > I also have the honor of meeting Carlos in an old wherehouse and sound > lab on Long Island back in 1973 when the company I was with was moving > in to the facility. There was some amazing old junk left behind like > old audio power amps with 807s and 813s... It was just down the block > from SUNY farmingdale. > > Allison > You mentioned Wendy (?) Carlos in a previous msg. Was this a slip or was this the wife of the well-known synthesiser-master Walter Carlos who did the sound-track for "Clock-Work Orange " ? Somewhat more back on topic , Megan let slip that you designed an interface for the "Mark 11". Would it a major undertaking to build an A-D converter to take the VCO off an analogue synth and convert it to MIDI or to sample or record it ? And my ST is over 10 years old !! : ^ )) ciao larry ciao lwalker@interlog.com From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 27 04:55:16 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: <199807270937.FAA21779@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > You mentioned Wendy (?) Carlos in a previous msg. Was this a slip or was > this the wife of the well-known synthesiser-master Walter Carlos who did > the sound-track for "Clock-Work Orange " ? Err, umm, they're both the same person. Wendy started out as Walter. -- Doug From fauradon at pclink.com Mon Jul 27 06:23:31 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: More Moog Message-ID: <003d01bdb951$0f2def00$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Since we're on the subject: I have a small synth that was sold at Radio Shack (Tandy) that is labelled "Mini Moog Music" Are there any relation to the Moog we're talking about or did they only used the name for marketting? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 06:20:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? Message-ID: <199807271120.AA04595@world.std.com> < I wonder if it's the cable? (As is, the Kaypro supports two drives (SA4 < equivalent). The original owner bought a little hardware thingie that d Advent Turborom drivr personality board. < So I bought a new cable. It has that stupid half-twist, so I'm wonderin < to coax my system into working with the new cable. I think I understand < situation from the point of view of the drives (both drives are jumpered you cant. IT swaps a few lines around and will confuse the mess. I doubt the original cable is bad. More likely if the drives are really SA400(l) the positioner has slid from the notch it follows in the cam. < #1, and some pins are exchanged: 10 <-> 16, 11 <-> 15, 12 <-> 14). < But doesn't the computer have to cooperate in this farce? That is, woul < have to reprogram my BIOS to mess things up in the same way as the IBM P < hardware, so that the drive cable can do its part and thus it all ends u < (sort of) working? it's not a pc, no progrmming option. The half twist was so two identical drives would work without changing jumpers. Everyone else made you change jumpers. Allison From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 27 08:45:25 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Cleaning circuits Message-ID: <199807271130.NAA26564@marina.fth.sbs.de> > A few questions about clean(ing) circuits: > a)Can dust cause any damage to a PCB? Can it short anything? Yes and No - no direct harm is done, but dust turns out to be a good insulator, so the core temerature of the chips rise if they are covered by dust - even a small dust film can be difficult. Higher core temperature means higer stress, more aging and sooner irreversible failure. > b)What do you recommend for cleaning out PCBs if there's lot of it, > or spiderwebs, mold whatever? Yes cleaning is a must. I use several methods: 1. If the board is small enough to fit, I use an ultrasound cleaning device. This method is not usable if stickers or other non wter resistant markings ar on the board (and should be keeprd intact). ultrasound cleaning removes anything in less than a minute. 2. If the board is to big i use oridinary water (but destiled is prefered to avoide calcium (?) stains). Maybe with a little soap in front. 3. If there are some stickers to preserve, I use only short 'splashes' of water, from a mouth washing device. Alle three methods requiere intensive drying. So I first use a soft (frotee) towel, and then wave the board to dry of thebigger parts. If the board is very crowded (like a IBM-PC or XT) I will use a centrifuge (spin dryer). The board has to be fixed to get the right. Also a hair drywer for blowing _cold_ air is usefull to drive out the water. I never use warm air, since it is less efektive and leaves more stains on the surface. But as I said, using destiled water makes it less cruical when it comes to drying. Also 'canned' compessed air as available in some shops can be used to drivew out the water from deep corners. You don't have to remoe all chips. 4) Now if I can't use water, I thake several soft towels (fabric) and rub off the dirt. A sponge with a liite soap water, and a second one with clear destilled water. Also a stick an linnen is usefull to remove dirt from the edges. The ultrasound method can be used for a lot of parts. Even sonme keyboards do well - Original PC-Keyboards could be dumped without any preperation into the water and cleaned in just a few seconds. Oh: NEVER USE ANY CHEMICAL CLEANERS (beside _pUre_ soap) ON YOUR PCBS - NEVER - NEVER - NEVER. > c)Does distilled water cause rust? Basicly almost no, but after touching thesurface it isn't destilled water :) The main reason for rust is high humidity always dry your precesious little ones and store them not in an swamp like climate (sorry if you live in FL or somewhere near the Amazonas). > d)Can distilled water be used to clean circuits? Yes - see above. > e)As I understand, tap/spring/rain/etc. water is full of minerals > and that's why it's conductive as well as rust-causing Yes/no - If you dry them, they won't pick up rust. > f)A while ago, I picked up a bunch of 5.25" diskettes, which I hardly > allowed to dry before I put them into the plastic box. Now I > looked inside, and mold is spreading from the Microsoft Assembler > diskettes onto the Apple II ones. What is safe to use to clean > the mold (it's reeely disgusting!)? Thats the problem with Microsoft - They always want to pollute the environment - and as we see not only the Internet or Java, even simple helpless Apple Disks are to be transformed in non standard monsters :) Normaly I could suggest just to dump them since most of the software is not very unique. But again here are several levels of restauration: 1. If you only want to keep the software: Rip of the cover, clean the disk with cold air and / or alcohol (no nor brandy - use isopropyl alcohol) - take a _clean_new_ linnen and pour alcohol on. now go soft (!) ofer the disk to remove any parts - try to 'roll' the fabric to change the surface and lift of the mold. now place the disk into a new cover (always open only one side). If the disk wasn't damages itself you now should be able to read the content and duplicate it. I used this Method several times in data recovering actions. 2. I you just want to keep the cover (special print, or just since it is an genuine early Microsoft :): Take a sponge with warm destiled soap water and sponge it down (Never look at the disk ... it's a shame :). Drying and now storing a at a dry place to prevent the mold to come up again - Mold doesn't like dry places to flourisch. 3. You want keep both: Combine one and two - so you have a funktional copy and a displayable disk. Or just use method 1 and transfer the label to the _new_ copy. 4. You realy want to keep this disk (worst case): Forgett it - at least You have to do it like in 1) but you'll have to open the original cover _very_ carfully clean the disk, clean the cover AND replace all this fabric fleece inside the disk for new fabric - thats _very_ sifficult - and even if you mange this, the disk well always look damaged. The possibility of reinstaling mold is also the highest. Some tips: - Never use Mold covered Disks - or if you have to, restrict the usage to on 'mold-only' drive. - Don't use disks lying next to moled disks - the little friend is already there. - Store your disks always dry and with enough air circulation.closed cases can be deadly to your Disk. - Avoide high humidity - Avoide low humidity, since the fleece will become damaged. - Avoide heat - Some disks could start to loss their data as soon as 60 degree (140F) - Avoide cold - Never use disks below 10 degree (50F) the stress results in higher aging (remember, flopy disk drives are still cutting tools like a turning lathe) Also the magnetic film will loose the tightening if the temperature is to low (same as when to high (>80 degree 180F) I already dumped several hundered Disks I recovered previously from basements and garages because of Mold. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 27 07:55:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS References: <199807270937.FAA21750@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35BC78D0.7837AC71@bbtel.com> THX Larry. I may actually download it and give it a shot. Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 27 Jul 98 at 1:03, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it > > actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that > > obsoletes may become viable resources again using DR-DOS but at present > > I haven't had a chance to download the trial and run it on a 286. Im > > sure someone here is deeply into it.- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > I've got it installed on my PS/2 8580 along with OS/2 , using Boot Manager, > and I run GEM on it as well , no MSDOS. Doesn't seem any different really > from MSDOS. I haven't used it that much since installing it tho. > It works fine with Interlink . > > ciao larry > lwalker@interlog.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 07:57:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: PL/I References Message-ID: <199807271257.AA02380@world.std.com> < I did already check with Tim and the lads at the site. Plenty of < binaries, no docs. Too bad too cause it's just what I need. Go back and look again. there are docs there as both PS and PDF files. Also more are being added when possible. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 07:58:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807271258.AA03105@world.std.com> Electronic music: One item I reported I had was not from PCC-77 but instead an obscure event known as the Philadephia Computer Music Festival in 78. That was an effort of Creative computing. It featured music from: RCA COSMAC VIP system with 4k and super soundboard. ALF a system of up to 8 boards one per voice for s100. SSMSB-1 S100 that could be used in groups. Notran done at NCSU on an ambilog 200 (obscure 30 bit machine). Software techology on SOL20 Schertz S100 based hardware Newtech system another s100 card basically a DAC. BEll labs Computer speach as featured at the 1964 NY Worlds Fair. Name of programmer/performers: Mel Richman Joe Weisbecker Gooitzen van der Wal Andrew Modia John Ridges Malcolm Wright and Steve North Hal Chamberlin David Ahl Donanld Schertz Dorothy Siegal D.H.Van Lenten That list is also a whos who of early pre PC computing. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 07:58:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807271258.AA03383@world.std.com> < You mentioned Wendy (?) Carlos in a previous msg. Was this a slip or wa < this the wife of the well-known synthesiser-master Walter Carlos who di < the sound-track for "Clock-Work Orange " ? Riddle, she is his own sister and self. < Somewhat more back on topic , Megan let slip that you designed an inter < for the "Mark 11". Would it a major undertaking to build an A-D converte No that was the PDP-11. I wouldn't know a mark-11 from a brick. < take the VCO off an analogue synth and convert it to MIDI or to sample o < record it ? And my ST is over 10 years old !! : ^ )) Seems the hard way was as most PCs with sound record can do that. The problem of doing straight A/d is the host computer has to be fast enough to support 22,000 or greater samples a second and enough memory to store it all. Midi is not fast enough to sample/reproduce straight a/d or d/a sound wich is why all midi devices that are reproducers are self contained. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 07:57:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: FW: Writer wants to quote users Message-ID: <199807271257.AA02560@world.std.com> < >Actually there was DECnet-8! Dual processor machines were not uncommon < < Any further information (or pointers) to either DECnet-8 or dual process < would be of interest. Check the archive at dbit.com or at uu.se. Sorry the full addresses are elsewhere. It is on the net in amoung the other PDP-8 software. < Was DECnet-8 compatible with later DECnets (Phase III or IV)? I don't think it was even phase-III. There was never eithernet. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 08:31:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS Message-ID: <19980727133141.4844.qmail@hotmail.com> I tried it when it was OpenDOS. It's just like MS-DOS with a few built in features. It will run on an 8086 and up, but you won't be able to run their protected mode multitasking (no great loss). You can still use the task swaper, though. >Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it >actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that >obsoletes may become viable resources again using DR-DOS but at present >I haven't had a chance to download the trial and run it on a 286. Im >sure someone here is deeply into it.- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Jul 27 09:40:53 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS In-Reply-To: <35BC1812.34860E44@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980727074053.00e6e2b0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 01:03 27-07-98 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it >actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that Yes indeed. I installed it on one of the testbed machines here. Works great, very fast, no incompatibilities that I can detect! And for those who cry 'DOS is obsolete!,' let them know that DOS is very much alive and well on VMEBus systems. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Jul 27 09:48:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: FW: FREE, MicroVax2: UK In-Reply-To: <35BC5B7E.104F150A@surveying.salford.ac.uk> References: <35BC5B7E.104F150A@surveying.salford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <35be9311.907564709@smtp.wa.jps.net> Our UK members will want to see this. Contact the fellow directly if you want a free MicroVAXen. -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:50:38 +0100, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: stuart >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro,comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Free, MicroVax2: UK >>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:50:38 +0100 >>Organization: university of salford >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <35BC5B7E.104F150A@surveying.salford.ac.uk> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.construct-it.salford.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!server1.netnews.ja.net!ananke.salford.ac.uk!not-for-mail >>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec.micro:266 comp.sys.dec:2293 >> >>Dear all, >>I have a Microvax 2 mounted in a ba23 enclosure, free to good home. >>Must collect. TK50, RD53 all working + tapes. >>Manchester area. >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From deker at digitaladdiction.com Mon Jul 27 10:22:47 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor In-Reply-To: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE5ED@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Anthony Eros wrote: > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > the pieces needed to get it running? > These are great boxes. For RAM they will use almost any 72pin SIMM (though they have the ability to use double-sided SIMMS if you can find them...). As far as the rest of the pieces go, try Deep Space Technologies (http://www.deepspacetech.com). Also, a local "surplus" place by me usually has some NeXT bits (mice, keyboards, etc). Let me know if I can help with anything. rob From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 27 10:37:15 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor References: Message-ID: <35BC9EAB.DE5F639B@texoma.net> Will you check on the price and availability of a black NeXT ADB mouse for me. mine was missing and I'm using a glidepad from my mac until I find the mouse. TIa, James Rob Deker wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Anthony Eros wrote: > > > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had > > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) > > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > > the pieces needed to get it running? > > > These are great boxes. For RAM they will use almost any 72pin SIMM (though > they have the ability to use double-sided SIMMS if you can find them...). > > As far as the rest of the pieces go, try Deep Space Technologies > (http://www.deepspacetech.com). Also, a local "surplus" place by me > usually has some NeXT bits (mice, keyboards, etc). Let me know if I can > help with anything. > > rob From deker at digitaladdiction.com Mon Jul 27 10:51:39 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor In-Reply-To: <35BC9EAB.DE5F639B@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, James L. Rice wrote: > Will you check on the price and availability of a black NeXT ADB mouse > for me. mine was missing and I'm using a glidepad from my mac until I > find the mouse. > I'll see if I can get down there later this week and see what they have. They've got REALLY crappy hours so it's kinda tough. I may also have one of these mice at home, I need to go find the "mouse box" rob From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 27 11:16:41 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980724233856.006a7544@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980727111641.50af251c@intellistar.net> At 09:55 AM 7/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:16 PM 7/23/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >>Wow, it sounds like somebody just lost their GRiD-virginity. John H. took >>my 1535EXP, so I have to go from memory. It's a 386DX-33 (in a PGA, so > >Yes, I actually flew across the country, broke into his house, grabbed the >mag-alloy 1535 out of his hands, repeatedly beat him over the head with it, >and took off. Doug, you're lucky to be alive after all that. :) Maybe >that's why I'm having problems with the sucker! Yipes! I'd better not tell John where I live! I didn't know he was THAT fond of Grids. > >>you can upgrade it via Cyrix/TI/etc) with up to 8MB RAM (low-profile >>SIPs). I think it wants 16-18V DC, center neg. The empty hole will >>accomidate eithe battery or a power supply with an AC plug. > >Yep, that sounds about right. It uses the same power brick my GRiDPad 1912 >uses. BTW, if anyone needs a keyboard adapter cable for their GRiDPad, let >me know. I have 5 extras. What does it adapt it to? Mine has a 5 pin DIN connector and APPEARS to use a standard PC keyboard. > >>The connector on the bottom of the machine plugs into a docking tray, >>which John H. also took and I think was trying to sell last time I >>checked. (John, are you there?) > >I'd rather trade it to someone who can really use it. Even if it works, I >don't really have a use for it, and the 1535 w/8mb is a very usable machine >even without the tray. Yeap, I have a expansion tray too. Mine has a National Instruments GPIB-PCIIA HP_IB card in it. > >GRiD 1535 BIOS Date: 1989, slightly under the 10 year mark, but these are >such extrordinary machines! Yeap, they grow on ya, don't they! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 27 11:39:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: <199807270927.LAA16759@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980727113932.250fb550@intellistar.net> At 11:42 AM 7/27/98 +1, you wrote: > >BTW: I'm looking for a set of System Disks for the 150. Which system? 2.01 or 3.2? I have both. I *think* either one will run on either the original 150 or the TS II. I have a device driver that will run on the PC and let you read and write the HP 9121/9122/9123 disks. I can E-mail it to you and then zip the system disks and E-mail them to you. BTW the 9121 and 9122/9123 disk formats are different and you have to load the proper driver to match the drive that you have. Joe From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 27 11:59:08 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > OK, I feel like an idiot. Could somebody tell me where the power switch > > > is located on a Kaypro 2000? > > > > Top center, just below the LCD screen, Doug. > > Either my switch is missing or I'm thick as a brick. On the top is the > detachable keyboard, the pop-up floppy, a cubby with the keyboard cable, a > partition between the two, LCD hinges, the LCD release latch, and the LCD > itself. There's a handle and DC plug in the back. There's a serial port > on the left side covered by the bumper strip, and there're modem jacks and > a bus connector on the bottom. Can you give me another landmark for where > the switch should be? Aha! We have discovered that there is more than a single version of the 2000, Doug! On mine the deck between the detachable keyboard and the LCD screen is clear except for the ON/OFF switch, a battery meter, and a sliding contrast control. The drives are on the left and right rear edge. Guess I cannot be of help. Sorry! - don From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 27 12:20:37 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980727111641.50af251c@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.32.19980724233856.006a7544@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980727132037.007ce960@netpath.net> At 11:16 AM 7/27/98, you wrote: > Yipes! I'd better not tell John where I live! I didn't know he was THAT >fond of Grids. Where do you live, Joe? :) > What does it adapt it to? Mine has a 5 pin DIN connector and APPEARS to >use a standard PC keyboard. It's wired differently. It's also got one less pin than a PS/2 connector. People rewire PS/2 adapters all the time to make it work, but I guess I'm just too lazy. :) From srayner at erols.com Mon Jul 27 12:56:47 1998 From: srayner at erols.com (Stephen E. Rayner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: <35BCBF5F.3379@erols.com> This is n response to your site asking if anyone has TRS-80 Model III computers to sell. I have one I may be interested in selling. It has never had the case open. Also have a wide carriage printer to go with it. E-mail me at srayner@erols.com with an offer. Thanks. Steve Rayner. From boss at ibmhelp.com Mon Jul 27 13:58:22 1998 From: boss at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Read Wang VS15 diskettes? Message-ID: I need to move some data from Wang 5.25" VS15 diskettes (OS ver. 6.43.20) to ASCII. Is there anyone who'd like a project? I'm not sure at this point how many diskettes there will be, but generally these projects run around 15-20 diskettes. TIA, David -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Jul 27 15:03:51 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? In-Reply-To: <199807271120.AA04595@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 27, 98 07:20:31 am Message-ID: <199807272003.NAA03120@saul6.u.washington.edu> > < I wonder if it's the cable? (As is, the Kaypro supports two drives (SA4 > < equivalent). The original owner bought a little hardware thingie that d > > Advent Turborom drivr personality board. No, the machine doesn't have a TurboRom. The thingie is by Micro Cornucopia. It fits over the pins on the mainboard; it has some traces to a new set of pins, plus an IC or two (probably simple ones -- I haven't checked). It's small enough for me to hold in my hand. > you cant. IT swaps a few lines around and will confuse the mess. I doubt > the original cable is bad. More likely if the drives are really SA400(l) > the positioner has slid from the notch it follows in the cam. Hm. Drive B was a Shugart (I think -- not a 400 but the half-height version) but the new drive B is a TEC drive. I'm skeptical that both drives would have the same problems. I thought the new drive was unused (though I could be wrong about that). These errors are sporadic, and it could be that writing will mess up my chances of doing subsequent reads -- not sure if reading alone causes errors. But it could be something entirely different (perhaps I screwed up putting the terminating-resistor pack in the right way?) > it's not a pc, no progrmming option. The half twist was so two identical > drives would work without changing jumpers. Everyone else made you change > jumpers. Well, yes, but that means people could have four drives and set up the system the way they wanted to. I'd rather change the jumpers. Which pins are swapped? If I read the manual right, they are: 10 drive select 1 -> 16 11 ground -> 15 12 drive select 2 -> 14 13 ground -> 13 14 drive select 3 -> 12 15 ground -> 11 16 motor on -> 10 -- Derek From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 15:08:50 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor Message-ID: <199807272008.NAA20721@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >If you were near me I'd tell you just to come by and I'd do a builddisk >for you. Perhaps someone else will offer. $25 was a good deal- last time >I checked they were still going for a couple hundred. Poor kid! Hmm. Had no idea they were worth that much. I paid $120 for the four computers, three monitors, and manuals. Had to sell one of them so that I could afford more stuff! I also came home with 8 Mac IIci/IIcx's and some old Data Systems laptops. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 15:09:05 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Trade list Message-ID: <199807272009.NAA20954@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I'm in need of some stuff and also have some I want to get rid of. Email me if interested. I need: Small internal SCSI HD's ADB keyboards (especially NeXT) ADB Mice (especially NeXT) Old grayscale monitors with DB15 connectors (for use with Mac IIci/IIcx) NeXT computer-to-NeXT monitor cable - top priority Mac computer-to-NeXT monitor cable Mac computer-to-Mac monitor cable NeXT software - can it boot off disk? I have: IBM 5140 power supplies Mac II 0/0 Mac IIcx 0/0 Data Systems 086-based laptop (as yet untested) Apple IIe 2 Disk II drives ImageWriter II Please note that I will be unable to recevie email from July 30 to August 8 while I'm on vacation. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 15:09:09 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor Message-ID: <199807272009.NAA21007@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. A kid had >just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold >me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and (of course) >no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. What a coincidence! I just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes, a small stack of manuals and sold somebody the extra system box for $25 at a hamfest in Timonium on Sunday. Haven't had a chance to even look them over yet, not sure what's in them. >Does anyone have experience with these systems? Nope. >Any tips on getting the pieces needed to get it running? Same here. Anybody. And I'm in need of software and a monitor cable as well. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 27 15:15:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Dr=DOS References: <3.0.3.32.19980727074053.00e6e2b0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <35BCDFD2.4B7AF08C@bbtel.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > At 01:03 27-07-98 -0500, you wrote: > > >Anyone tried the lastest DR-DOS by Caldera? Just curious how good it > >actually is especially on older machines. Saw a write up proposing that > > Yes indeed. I installed it on one of the testbed machines here. Works > great, very fast, no incompatibilities that I can detect! I donwloaded the trial versions for disk on all three (1.44, 1.2 and 720) today and I'm going to give them a try on different machines. I've heard nothing but mediocre to great things about DR-DOS and I haven't used it personally since it was under Digital's ownership back around 1986 and had some question of it then. > And for those who cry 'DOS is obsolete!,' let them know that DOS is very > much alive and well on VMEBus systems. ;-) Windows and Windows 95 still run DOS or over DOS so what's the problem? I have all sorts of DOS platform programs I use all the time including Proboard 2.16 BBS (that I need to reinstall) and I r un them either in straight DOS, as a DOS program with a PIF in Windows 3.x or as a DOS box in Win95/98. They're only obsolete if no one has a real use for them, right? Thanks for the comments, all of you that have so far written me in open and private replies. Very much appreciated. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 12:42:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? In-Reply-To: <199807270131.SAA03303@saul1.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Jul 26, 98 06:31:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1609 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/510d0aaf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 12:30:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive (again) In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Jul 27, 98 11:19:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1164 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/a48c1d20/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 14:13:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Sirius sound - fixed! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/693c255f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 13:57:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Boards for grabs In-Reply-To: <199807270927.LAA16759@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 27, 98 11:42:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 283 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/aae5c45c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 12:44:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: <199807270133.AA18339@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 26, 98 09:33:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/f6ec29a9/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 15:58:59 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <199807272058.NAA06366@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Just purchased three Zenith Data Systems laptops at a Hamfest - my first IBM-compatible computers, believe it or not (always focused on the Apples & under-the-TV 8-bit systems). Needless to say, I don't know a thing about them. There are no power adapters. I have a 12v 300 mA adapter. Will that work with them? I hooked it up to all three systems - 2 of them didn't do a thing. The third "spins" up and I can hear a very faint wining noise from inside. The monitor, however, shows nothing (could this be due to too little amperage?). The computer gives a three-tone beep every 15 seconds or so (estimate) and beeps whenever I press a key. Anybody have any suggestions? Like I said, I don't anything about these, so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Jul 27 16:31:53 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <019201bdb9a5$faab13a0$ab27a2ce@cgregory> Tom, I believe there were (are) several different models of Zenith Data Systems laptops, so the power supplies may vary. However my model 150-308 uses a DC 16.5v 2A adapter. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Monday, July 27, 1998 5:58 PM Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop > Just purchased three Zenith Data Systems laptops at a Hamfest - my >first IBM-compatible computers, believe it or not (always focused on the >Apples & under-the-TV 8-bit systems). > > Needless to say, I don't know a thing about them. There are no power >adapters. I have a 12v 300 mA adapter. Will that work with them? I >hooked it up to all three systems - 2 of them didn't do a thing. The >third "spins" up and I can hear a very faint wining noise from inside. >The monitor, however, shows nothing (could this be due to too little >amperage?). The computer gives a three-tone beep every 15 seconds or so >(estimate) and beeps whenever I press a key. > > Anybody have any suggestions? Like I said, I don't anything about >these, so any advice would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Tom > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 15:39:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Using IBM floppy-drive cable with Kaypro? In-Reply-To: <199807272003.NAA03120@saul6.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Jul 27, 98 01:03:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980727/4b35e1d0/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 18:33:27 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <199807272333.QAA29694@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I believe there were (are) several different models of Zenith Data Systems >laptops, so the power supplies may vary. However my model 150-308 uses a DC >16.5v 2A adapter. Mine is "Model ZWL-184-97". Quite a mouthful. It also says it is 12v, but nothing about amperage. Thanks for the info. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 27 19:29:03 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Aha! We have discovered that there is more than a single version of the >2000, Doug! On mine the deck between the detachable keyboard and the LCD >screen is clear except for the ON/OFF switch, a battery meter, and a >sliding contrast control. The drives are on the left and right rear edge. > >Guess I cannot be of help. Sorry! > - don > Drives? Battery Meter? I believe that's a 2000+, my memory is bad, but I remember the 2000+ and I distictly remember there not being a battery meter and only one drive on the 2000. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Jul 26 15:59:20 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: References: <199807270937.FAA21779@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199807280101.VAA22353@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Jul 98 at 4:55, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > You mentioned Wendy (?) Carlos in a previous msg. Was this a slip or was > > this the wife of the well-known synthesiser-master Walter Carlos who did > > the sound-track for "Clock-Work Orange " ? > > Err, umm, they're both the same person. Wendy started out as Walter. > > -- Doug > Shows how current I am. I hope Wendy got her patch cords right this time. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 27 20:04:46 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Drives? Battery Meter? I believe that's a 2000+, my memory is bad, but I > remember the 2000+ and I distictly remember there not being a battery meter > and only one drive on the 2000. That matches my memory of the 2000 (from last night). Other interesting attributes: the trademark Kaypro brushed aluminum case, and a mobo in which *every* chip is socketed, even the cheap TTL logic. That should make it easy to work on, but probably also expalins why it's not working at present. Somebody mentioned the battery as a possible culprit. AFAICT, the battery should not affect bootability. For one thing, I couldn't find either a CMOS battery or a bridge battery, and the main battery seems to be in parallel with the DC input, so the thing should take juice from either. -- Doug From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 20:07:35 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: IBM Power supplies FS (5140?) Message-ID: <199807280107.SAA16595@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I would also be interested in the 5140 power supply... maybe a couple >of spares... You can have up to five power supplies, $5 each, shipped. Let me know. Sincerely, Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From gram at cnct.com Mon Jul 27 20:22:43 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: The Moog References: <199807262339.AA20063@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BD27E3.A7AD266D@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > through my parents Record collection and found a record that is Moog mus > < It was something I was looking for, as it was so unusual that I remembe > < when my dad brought it home over 20 years ago. > < > < Anyway I was wondering if anyone knows anything about what kind of hardw > < was used for this? > > Most of the early Moog work was done an ANALOG synths using multitrack > recording as most were not polytonic machines. Names of people who did > commercial work were Wendy Carlos, Iaso Tomita and Claude Denjean to name > some in my collection (Vinyl). The classic was Switched on Bach, Carlos. > > Some had primitive sequencers but it would not be until the late 70s that > the computer->synth connection would start to really get out of the lab. I _think_ I've got the entire Wendy (nee Walter) Carlos collection in vinyl, along with Tomita's magnificent work (that horrible coral pink "Bermuda Triangle" disk with music that overcame the fact that you had to look at the disk to put it on the turntable). I intend to pick up a CR writer in the next few months and the main purpose is to transfer material from vinyl and mylar -- its use as a computer peripheral is secondary (though non-trivial, as I want to make solid archives of a bunch of old Tandy software among other things). -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Mon Jul 27 20:30:15 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:33 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) References: <199807270937.FAA21779@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35BD29A7.7C866C35@cnct.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > You mentioned Wendy (?) Carlos in a previous msg. Was this a slip or was > this the wife of the well-known synthesiser-master Walter Carlos who did > the sound-track for "Clock-Work Orange " ? Uh, Walter and Wendy are the same person. The last album done by Walter was "Sonic Seasonings" (magnificent, IMAO), done during the reclusive period mandated by the trans-gendering process. Wendy's first release was the soundtrack to "Tron". -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From manney at lrbcg.com Mon Jul 27 20:37:44 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <01bdb9c8$51388be0$2a28a2ce@laptop> I was just given a Mac, which doesn't seem to have a hard drive or software. Does anyone have an O/S he (she) would wish to get rid of cheap(ly), plus an app or two? I'm presuming my DOS 3.3 won't work. Thanks, manney@lrbcg.com "2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2" From gram at cnct.com Mon Jul 27 20:46:27 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! References: Message-ID: <35BD2D73.7EF130AE@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > > [Linux World Domination] > > > > Y'know, once we get that user-friendly stuff happening, we're gonna > > kick windows's ass. > > > > User friendly + reliable + free = the next killer O/S. > > Windows will simply have no way to compete and still turn a profit. > > One name: ApplixWare. Go find it and install it. That'll provide you > with all the user-friendliness you want. Yup. Redhat Applixware running under Caldera 1,2 with Redhad/Triteal CDE. Beats the crap of my NT system at work with Office '97 in both user-friendly and stable. IMAO of course. (But it doesn't say good things about the system at work when I have better results forwarding internal email home to respond later because if I try to respond there my (NT) system hangs half the time). -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jul 27 20:48:07 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop In-Reply-To: <01bdb9c8$51388be0$2a28a2ce@laptop> from "PG Manney" at Jul 27, 98 09:37:44 pm Message-ID: <199807280148.TAA29285@calico.litterbox.com> What sort of a mac? It will say somewhere on it. What system software you run on it has a lot to do with what kind of mac it is, and whether it has a hard disk or not. The old fashioned lunchbox macs are fun machines to work with, or to keep around as a spare for when your big desktop machine breaks. My wife has an se30 I used for nearly a week while my win95 machine was down for a bad power supply. (grumble ATX grumble) It was pokey, but it got there. And it had an ethernet interface so I could use our network still. :) -Jim -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From william at ans.net Mon Jul 27 20:54:38 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <35BD27E3.A7AD266D@cnct.com> Message-ID: > I intend to pick up > a CR writer in the next few months and the main purpose is to transfer > material from vinyl and mylar -- its use as a computer peripheral is > secondary Why bother? All of that stuff is now on real CDs. In fact, I am always amazed at what gets reissued, sometimes by the big media giants, but often on independents. The last interesting reissue I saw (and was foolish enough NOT to buy) was Roger Powell's "Air Pocket" (sort of early synth guy, part of Rundgren's Utopia, general computer geek, now works at SGI). OK, now to a classic computer - synthesizer link... One of the many 25 cent junkbin LPs I purchased over the years, "Digital Stimulation" by a 1980 California band called Units, contained a promo glossy of the band posing in front of a true classic - a rather tired looking DEC KA-10. I suppose at the time the photo was shot the machine had logged a good ten years of service. Another, "The Hacker" by ClockDva contains a very nice photo of one of the Connection Machines, probably a CM-1. William Donzelli william@ans.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jul 27 20:56:22 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <135df9f9.35bd2fc7@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-27 21:45:43 EDT, you write: << I was just given a Mac, which doesn't seem to have a hard drive or software. Does anyone have an O/S he (she) would wish to get rid of cheap(ly), plus an app or two? I'm presuming my DOS 3.3 won't work. >> I have lots of old mac apps that will work on se and older models. message me privately, as well as anyone else that might be interested. i've got about 500 low density 3.5 disks to get rid of anyway... david From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jul 27 21:13:23 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jul 27, 98 09:54:38 pm Message-ID: <199807280213.UAA29461@calico.litterbox.com> Not all vinyl is out on CDs, btw. Some of the more rare stuff isn't, or has been replaced by frankly inferior recordings. In some cases the original artists are long dead and there's not a big market to dig up the original master and make a CD. If you plan to make many of these, a good cartrige is a must. I bought an Ortofon x5mc - it has twice the frequency response of a CD. Cost around $200 if memory serves from garage a records (www.garage-a-records.com) but when I put one of my wife's immaculately kept records on it, the sound was nothing short of incredible. Definately good stuff to source a CD with. Yeah yeah, severely off topic, I know. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 27 22:16:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <199807280316.AA07254@world.std.com> < manney@lrbcg.com < "2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2" 1+1=3... hidden carry From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Jul 27 22:46:28 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds References: <199807270702.AAA20879@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35BD4994.45091EEE@goldrush.com> Having a bit of cabin fever Sunday I convinced my wife (well, not really... she likes foraging as much as I) to go thrifing. First stop in Stockton was the the college parking-lot flea market (never know what you're going to find there.) I was almost empty-handed when I found a a bin of 16 Atari Carts (actually 15 I later discovered as one was missing the guts) paid $5.00 for the lot. Included were few standards such as BASIC, Star Raiders, Defender, and Asteroids but also Atari Assembler, a Dealer Demo Cart, a couple word processors, an "educational system master cart" (networking??? Pilot?) etc. Pretty good find. Still need to test em. Another item, an facinating BASIC book, "Elementary BASIC", a BASIC instructional guide using the Sherlock Holmes character (from the texts of Dr.Watson), in it Sherlock Holmes solves a few cases with programs ran on Babbage's Analytical Engine ('translated' to BASIC by the authors). Pretty off-beat. The last stop was to our favorite thrift store which did well by us again, I picked up an Apple IIc (sans power supply) for $3.98, and a really nifty item, a Sharp PC1501 Pocket calculator w/printer/cassette module (CE-150) in its carrying case with some cables (no ps for these either) for $4.92! Tested the handheld, it works, even though the batteries I removed were drippy; the expansion unit I have yet to get working (not enough power from the adapter I guess??) There is also a cassette tape in there, will be fun to check that out. The Apple will have to wait till I find a PS unit, since it is my first 8-bit apple unit. I have little for it but the computer, a users guide and a few loose disks picked up here and there. I figure I'll collect some of the games I thought were cool for it and maybe a gizmo or two. Ahhh Another beginning, will be fun to discover a tidbit here and there, as finding the Commodore oddities are getting harder to locate. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 27 23:07:09 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Drives? Battery Meter? I believe that's a 2000+, my memory is bad, but I > remember the 2000+ and I distictly remember there not being a battery meter > and only one drive on the 2000. You are exactly right, Zane. That portion of the lid is scarred up a bit and the '+' is not all that apparent! - don From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 27 23:11:37 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Drives? Battery Meter? I believe that's a 2000+, my memory is bad, but I > > remember the 2000+ and I distictly remember there not being a battery meter > > and only one drive on the 2000. > > That matches my memory of the 2000 (from last night). Other interesting > attributes: the trademark Kaypro brushed aluminum case, and a mobo in > which *every* chip is socketed, even the cheap TTL logic. That should > make it easy to work on, but probably also expalins why it's not working > at present. That is(/was) fairly typical of Kaypro. A lot of the 8-bit machines were built that way. > Somebody mentioned the battery as a possible culprit. AFAICT, the battery > should not affect bootability. For one thing, I couldn't find either a > CMOS battery or a bridge battery, and the main battery seems to be in > parallel with the DC input, so the thing should take juice from either. Don't be too sure, Doug. If the NiCads are really hosed, they may drag down the external power to much. I had a Sharp calculator that acted like that. - don From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Jul 25 11:36:32 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination In-Reply-To: References: <199807250017.AA06852@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980725093632.008c0150@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active >terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more >have it built into the mobo? Originally, the Altair (S-100) bus did not define a need for termination of any kind. It was not until things on the bus started to speed up (using DMA and such) that anyone apparently thought about it. A number of companies started to put out terminator cards (active and passive) that just plugged in, and later some manufacturers (Gotbout being a notable example) began to incorporate (active) termination into their backplane boards. >Specifically, do I need to stick this card into my IMSAI? Can't hurt. I will say however, I do seem to recall seeing a board or two that would not run on a terminated bus, but that has been so long that I don't evem recall what it was. A note tho: if it is an active terminator, check the regulator voltages and filter caps on the board with no other boards in the machine. A bad terminator can introduce many more problems that it will solve. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 27 23:15:50 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: LCD & SVGA... Message-ID: <35BD5076.3CC@geocities.com> Is it possible to take a "standard" svga type lcd display and wire it to a typical SVGA video card? How does it differ inside a laptop that has both an external SVGA adapter and the internal LCD connection? I'd love to use some of these LCD displays I have in some systems. any info would be appreciated. -Eric From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Jul 27 23:16:48 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <35B3E777.D4AEC3F2@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > Uhhh... I still use a rotary dial telephone, with extremely loud clanger. > > Not in my room, but the household's main phone is one 'o those. It's the > > only 'public' one in the house, all the other ones sit in someone's > > bedroom. > > One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers ^^^^^^^ Mine's a Northern Electric clunker. :) Is there a Classic Telephony list? This thing seems to have been constructed in the 50s. ObClassicCmp: So what the heck IS that 50-pin connector on the back of the Hyperion? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 27 23:27:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > ObClassicCmp: So what the heck IS that 50-pin connector on the back of the > Hyperion? It's where the RAM expansion thing hangs on. -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 28 00:09:36 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >That matches my memory of the 2000 (from last night). Other interesting >attributes: the trademark Kaypro brushed aluminum case, and a mobo in That was the other thing besides the battery life that I loved about that computer, it had such an awsome case. I hope you've got the shoulder bag. It was the nicest case and bag of any of the following 4 laptops I've owned. Although the PowerBook 520c and 540c have got a lot nicer case design, they just aren't as nice a case (to flimsy feeling). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 28 00:10:54 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Read Wang VS15 diskettes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, David Wollmann wrote: > > I need to move some data from Wang 5.25" VS15 diskettes (OS ver. 6.43.20) to > ASCII. Is there anyone who'd like a project? I'm not sure at this point how > many diskettes there will be, but generally these projects run around 15-20 > diskettes. David, I suspect that the really logical guy would be someone who had one of the old Wang (non/semi-compatible) PCs, as I think they could read those disks directly. However, if you want to send me a sample I will take a crack at translating it and let you know. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 28 00:31:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > That was the other thing besides the battery life that I loved about that > computer, it had such an awsome case. I hope you've got the shoulder bag. > It was the nicest case and bag of any of the following 4 laptops I've > owned. Although the PowerBook 520c and 540c have got a lot nicer case > design, they just aren't as nice a case (to flimsy feeling). I got the shoulder bag, but it's a pretty tight/flimsy synthetic thing with no pockets. Maybe you had the ShoulderBag+ :-) I'm generally fond of leather bags, but I also like the synthetic one for the Mac Portable: lots of pockets and padding + cool neoprene handle. As far as cases go, the aluminum Kaypro 2000 (which, despite the name, probably isn't Y2K-ready, BTW) is definitely in the top-10. Magnesium alloys (pioneered by GRiD) are making a comeback (checkout the latest light-weight HP notebook, for example). But as long as portable makers are going to use plastic, it should always be translucent green like the eMate's :-) -- Doug From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Jul 28 00:35:18 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <35BD27E3.A7AD266D@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199807280532.AAA08984@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:22:43 -0400 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Ward Donald Griffiths III To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: The Moog > I _think_ I've got the entire Wendy (nee Walter) Carlos collection in > vinyl, along with Tomita's magnificent work (that horrible coral pink > "Bermuda Triangle" disk with music that overcame the fact that you had > to look at the disk to put it on the turntable). I intend to pick up > a CR writer in the next few months and the main purpose is to transfer > material from vinyl and mylar -- its use as a computer peripheral is > secondary (though non-trivial, as I want to make solid archives of a > bunch of old Tandy software among other things). > -- > Ward Griffiths > They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. > Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ I, too, have the Bermuda Triangle LP, but if I remember correctly I have two copies -- one pressed in pink vinyl and one pressed in blue. BTW -- has anyone ever tried to decode the encoded message on that album? I've always wanted to see what it said, but I always lacked the necessary Tarbell cassette interface to read it. As an aside, My personal favorite of the early synth years is Larry Fast and his Synergy project. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Jul 28 00:35:17 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) In-Reply-To: <199807270133.AA18339@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807280532.AAA08988@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:33:33 -0400 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Moog (on topic, too...) > I also have the honor of meeting Carlos in an old wherehouse and sound > lab on Long Island back in 1973 when the company I was with was moving > in to the facility. There was some amazing old junk left behind like > old audio power amps with 807s and 813s... It was just down the block > from SUNY farmingdale. > > Allison Allison, When you met Carlos, was he still Walter or was she Wendy? I have both copies of Switched-on Bach and I always found it interesting that the liner notes for the later version had been completely rewritten to eliminate all references to the male gender. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 28 01:11:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: LCD & SVGA... In-Reply-To: <35BD5076.3CC@geocities.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Poesie wrote: > Is it possible to take a "standard" svga type lcd display and wire it > to a typical SVGA video card? How does it differ inside a laptop that > has both an external SVGA adapter and the internal LCD connection? I'd > love to use some of these LCD displays I have in some systems. any info > would be appreciated. Yeah, it'd be nice to use all of the cheap classic LCD plannels out there as low-energy desktop displays. All you need is a little hardware. There are two basic routes: get an LCD controller card for your PC, or get a VGA-to-LCD converter. I haven't found cheap sources for either, though. A coupla examples: http://www.view-tek.com/prodpage/80xp1.htm http://www.sageinc.com/boardproducts/S545.html -- Doug From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 28 01:39:15 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: LCD & SVGA... References: Message-ID: <35BD7213.1A3C@geocities.com> I didn't realize there was such a major difference between how CRT signals are sent and LCD signals are... I guess you learn something every day, right? although somehow blowing 250 bucks for an ISA card to drive my LCD seems a bit excessive... I think i would just buy a whole laptop sysbd first :) -Eric Doug Yowza wrote: > > Is it possible to take a "standard" svga type lcd display and wire it > > to a typical SVGA video card? How does it differ inside a laptop that > > has both an external SVGA adapter and the internal LCD connection? I'd > > love to use some of these LCD displays I have in some systems. any info > > would be appreciated. > Yeah, it'd be nice to use all of the cheap classic LCD plannels out there > as low-energy desktop displays. All you need is a little hardware. There > are two basic routes: get an LCD controller card for your PC, or get a > VGA-to-LCD converter. I haven't found cheap sources for either, though. > > A coupla examples: > http://www.view-tek.com/prodpage/80xp1.htm > http://www.sageinc.com/boardproducts/S545.html > > -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 28 05:54:12 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Linux World Domination! Message-ID: <199807280839.KAA08891@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> [Linux World Domination] >>> Y'know, once we get that user-friendly stuff happening, we're gonna >>> kick windows's ass. >>> User friendly + reliable + free = the next killer O/S. >>> Windows will simply have no way to compete and still turn a profit. >> One name: ApplixWare. Go find it and install it. That'll provide you >> with all the user-friendliness you want. > Yup. Redhat Applixware running under Caldera 1,2 with Redhad/Triteal > CDE. Beats the crap of my NT system at work with Office '97 in both > user-friendly and stable. IMAO of course. Ever tried KDE - IMHO the best attempt to get a whole desktop environment - and its public. (And try StarOffice as office suite -> you'll never think again about MS, especialy since SO is also availabe for Win3.1/95/NT _and_ OS/2). CCob: Ever tried (DR-)DOS and GEM ? _TONS_ of good old and some new soft! Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Jul 28 07:21:38 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Zenith Data Systems laptop In-Reply-To: <199807272058.NAA06366@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980728082138.0068f360@mail.wincom.net> At 01:58 PM 7/27/98 -0700, you wrote: > Just purchased three Zenith Data Systems laptops at a Hamfest - my >first IBM-compatible computers, believe it or not (always focused on the >Apples & under-the-TV 8-bit systems). > > Needless to say, I don't know a thing about them. There are no power >adapters. I have a 12v 300 mA adapter. Will that work with them? I >hooked it up to all three systems - 2 of them didn't do a thing. The >third "spins" up and I can hear a very faint wining noise from inside. >The monitor, however, shows nothing (could this be due to too little >amperage?). The computer gives a three-tone beep every 15 seconds or so >(estimate) and beeps whenever I press a key. > > Anybody have any suggestions? Like I said, I don't anything about >these, so any advice would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Tom > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > I have a Zenith ZWL 183-93, the internal battery is a string of "D" Nicads, shot of course. I managed to get it going by modifying the power supply for an old Sony portable reel to reel vtr, and increasing the regulated voltage from 12 to 14. It takes about twenty minutes for the old Nicads to soak up enough power for the thing to work, but it finally does. Regards Charlie Fox From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 07:42:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: S-100 bus termination Message-ID: <199807281242.AA25928@world.std.com> < Originally, the Altair (S-100) bus did not define a need for termination < any kind. It was not until things on the bus started to speed up (usin < DMA and such) that anyone apparently thought about it. The altair bus was never specified, nor engineered. IF it were it would not have been built that way. It was more like people tried to makes them work and found the crashed often and without apparent cause. Other people found if the move the boards from one slow to another would make a program crash. Using an extender card crashed the system. Most all found as they added memory the system would get more or less stable. I was one of the early ones looking at the data lines mostly if horror with my scope. Of the handfull of computer people in the LI, NY area at the time I was one of the few with a scope. < Can't hurt. I will say however, I do seem to recall seeing a board or t < that would not run on a terminated bus, but that has been so long that < don't evem recall what it was. There were a few really badly designed boards that couldn't drive the bus at all well and tended to also aggravate the noise situation. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 07:42:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <199807281242.AA26280@world.std.com> < I, too, have the Bermuda Triangle LP, but if I remember correctly I have < copies -- one pressed in pink vinyl and one pressed in blue. Mine was plan vinyl (black) a later copy. < As an aside, My personal favorite of the early synth years is Larry Fast < Synergy project. I have those too. Electronic realizations for a rock Orchestra. Allison From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 28 10:16:01 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop References: <01bdb9c8$51388be0$2a28a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <35BDEB31.D79@geocities.com> Well, you can get older versions of the Mac OS from apple, up to I think system 7.6.1 (? correct me here, mac people.) Just download and then do what you will with them. as far as apps, I suppose you could find alot at thrift shops (I find many old school titles for macs there...) or depending on how old the systems are, you could use NetBSD or some unix variant :) -Eric PG Manney wrote: > > I was just given a Mac, which doesn't seem to have a hard drive or software. > > Does anyone have an O/S he (she) would wish to get rid of cheap(ly), plus an > app or two? > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 28 10:35:14 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor Message-ID: <199807281607.MAA28860@charity.harvard.net> I been in yer shoes. The color NeXT Station used either a proprietary keyboard/mouse interface or ADB versions. I'm not sure how to figger out which is which but the guys at http://www.deepspacetech.com/ would, plus, they carry the other stuff you're gonna need to get the sucker up and running (like the OS). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Eros [mailto:Anthony.Eros@digital.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 7:21 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: NeXtStation TurboColor > > > I picked up a NeXtStation TurboColor box today at a hamfest. > A kid had > just bought 3 monitors, 4 boxes and a small stack of manuals and sold > me the extra system box for $25. No memory or hard disk and > (of course) > no monitor, cable, keyboard, mouse or software. > > Does anyone have experience with these systems? Any tips on getting > the pieces needed to get it running? > > -- Tony > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 28 10:22:09 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Apple Prototype Keyboard Message-ID: <199807281607.MAA28913@charity.harvard.net> They start most items at 1000. I know where you can get an imagewriter printer in a clear plastic case with serial #1000. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 1998 6:22 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple Prototype Keyboard > > > I just acquired two Apple prototype keyboards. The > keyboard is very > small with no frame and only 58 keys. They hvae stereo-type > connectors > on them, as oppose to ADB, and I have an adapter box to hook > them up to a > Mac Plus (and they do work, btw). > According to my "AppleDesign" book, they are "Cassie" keyboards, > co-designed by Mannock and Esslinger for the SnowWhite Project. Does > anyone have any further information on these keyboards? And how do > things like this get outside of Apple? I'm under the > impression Apple > doesn't exactly give this kind of stuff away. > > On the back the keyboards read: > > [logo]apple > apq > Development Engineering > PROTOTYPE > S/n# Model# > 1012 > (the other says "1032") > > Does Apple start numbering at '1' or '1000'? > > The keyboard, btw, is obviously a prototype. The whole thing > seems quite > flimsy and the keys are all angled slightly differently. > > Tom > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: > From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 11:11:18 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807281611.AA15140@world.std.com> Allison, we have to get together... I also have one of the Qbus sound cards... Megan From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 11:20:21 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807281620.AA24926@world.std.com> > Somewhat more back on topic , Megan let slip that you designed an >interface for the "Mark 11". Would it a major undertaking to build an A-D >converter to take the VCO off an analogue synth and convert it to MIDI >or to sample or record it ? And my ST is over 10 years old !! : ^ )) Actually, the 'MK10' stood for 'Music Kludge - 10' and apparently consisted of something attached to the accumulator lights (which the software flashed on and off at the appropriate fequencies). We called our board the MK11-B (Music Kludge - 11, revision B). The Rev A was my initial circuit which was one SGC driven by a DR11C on the pdp-11/10 I have at home. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 11:31:55 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Dual floppy drive Message-ID: <199807281631.AA05773@world.std.com> I recently got one of those combo drives -- the one with both a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy built in. It is the Teac FD505... I currently have a Teac FD-55GFV (RX33) on my RQDX3 at home... is anyone familiar with the two drives? Can I replace eht RX33 with the combo drive and get it to work? I've already tried simply using it as distributed... and the controller (sorry, its the RQZX1 controller, not RQDX3) sees the two drives. But when I try to access either, they get directory read errors on disks I know should work... Any help appreciated... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From deker at digitaladdiction.com Tue Jul 28 11:31:27 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: A few different things Message-ID: So, I went to the surplus depot today to dig around for good stuff. To folks looking for NeXT stuff, sorry, none to be found today. Aside from that, I *DID* find some cool stuff. If you're interested in any of this stuff, send me private e-mail and maybe we can work something out. (1) NCS Sentry 3000 Test Scanner (for grading scantron type tests) $25 (4) DEC DEMPERs $10/ea (1) SummaSketch II Tablet $40 I also ran across an HP 700/x X-Terminal. Does anybody know anything about these? It looks like it will run a standard 15-pin VGA monitor. It's dirt cheap and I'd LOVE to have an another xterm around the house. Any info? Thanks rob From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 11:40:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Qbus music boards Message-ID: <199807281640.AA13862@world.std.com> >>>ard@p85ug1.demon.co.uk >If it's any help, the AY-3-8912 is the AY-3-8910 with only 1 8 bit I/O >port rather than 2 (and the AY-3-8913 has no I/O ports). The sound >registers are identical. > >I'm sure I've got pinouts of all 3 devices, and descriptions of the >registers if you need them. I'm interested in whatever information you can provide... I've had this for awhile, but have had no documentation or even code to drive it, so I couldn't figure it out. I worked with the MicroPower/Pascal people way back when they worked on the star wars cantina demo, but I never had a doc set for the board... Any help MUCH appreciated... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ k From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 28 11:41:04 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: A few different things Message-ID: <19980728164104.4572.qmail@hotmail.com> Was there a puck with this? I have a Summasketch something-or-other, and I want to know how the puck works, pinout, etc. >(1) SummaSketch II Tablet > $40 > >rob > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 28 11:41:50 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: A few different things In-Reply-To: from "Rob Deker" at Jul 28, 98 12:31:27 pm Message-ID: <199807281641.MAA12328@shell.monmouth.com> > I also ran across an HP 700/x X-Terminal. Does anybody know anything about > these? It looks like it will run a standard 15-pin VGA monitor. It's dirt > cheap and I'd LOVE to have an another xterm around the house. Any info? > > Thanks > > rob > > They're pretty nice. They should run 1024x768 SVGA's without too much problem. They use an keyboard that looks like an HP PS/2 keyboard. I don't know where you'd get the software for it -- perhaps HP still supports it or makes it downloadable from the net. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Jul 28 11:44:35 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Dual floppy drive In-Reply-To: <199807281631.AA05773@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 28, 98 12:31:55 pm Message-ID: <199807281644.MAA13695@shell.monmouth.com> > > > I recently got one of those combo drives -- the one with both a > 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy built in. It is the Teac FD505... I > currently have a Teac FD-55GFV (RX33) on my RQDX3 at home... is > anyone familiar with the two drives? Can I replace eht RX33 with > the combo drive and get it to work? I've already tried simply > using it as distributed... and the controller (sorry, its the > RQZX1 controller, not RQDX3) sees the two drives. But when I > try to access either, they get directory read errors on disks I > know should work... > > Any help appreciated... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > What's rhe RQZX1 want for transfer rate and what's the RQZX1 use for control lines -- does it use the full 34 pin cable? Does it supply head select, motor on? etc... I've seen RQDX3's but never touched the RQZX1. Bill From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 28 11:35:31 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader Message-ID: <199807281645.MAA05918@charity.harvard.net> My girlfriend and I have a PDP with a Charles River Data Systems RL02 clone. Anyone know a boot loader for this puppy? (Funny thing is, Charles River Data Systems is less than two blocks from my office, noone there knows anything about the drives :) Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1868 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980728/ad5ae764/attachment.bin From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 28 11:46:52 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Linux world domination Message-ID: <19980728164652.22691.qmail@hotmail.com> Someone mentioned staroffice. Do they still offer 3.x for download? I couldn't find it anywhere, though Caldera is selling 4.0 for $20. Where is the website? I thought it was www.stardivision.com. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From djenner at halcyon.com Tue Jul 28 12:07:04 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Dual floppy drive References: <199807281631.AA05773@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BE0538.65C023C1@halcyon.com> I have a couple of these in PCs and they work just fine. Haven't tried one in an -11. I have two FD-55GFVs as RX33s in an -11 and they work just fine. Things to do: 1) Make sure you're supplying 12V; the 5.25in floppy won't work without it, but the 3.5in will. 2) Look at the Teac Web site for installation instructions: http://www.teac.com/dsp/catalog.html#floppy 3) Let us know if you get it to work--especially what happens with the 3.5in drive! Dave Megan wrote: > > I recently got one of those combo drives -- the one with both a > 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy built in. It is the Teac FD505... I > currently have a Teac FD-55GFV (RX33) on my RQDX3 at home... is > anyone familiar with the two drives? Can I replace eht RX33 with > the combo drive and get it to work? I've already tried simply > using it as distributed... and the controller (sorry, its the > RQZX1 controller, not RQDX3) sees the two drives. But when I > try to access either, they get directory read errors on disks I > know should work... > > Any help appreciated... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 28 14:31:54 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Linux world domination Message-ID: <199807281717.TAA23835@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Someone mentioned staroffice. Do they still offer 3.x for download? I > couldn't find it anywhere, though Caldera is selling 4.0 for $20. Where > is the website? I thought it was www.stardivision.com. Normaly it is www.stardivision.de/.com but .com doesn't work. Staroffice 4.0 (SP3) Non-Comercial is availabe via http://support.stardiv.de/service/Download/SO40_Final/Linux/so40linux.asp or for 78 Mark as CD direct from them via https://support.stardiv.de/VertriebSecure/onlineshop/src/linux.asp these are at least the pages I know (if you need help for the forms, just ask). Compared to the downloadtime tis price is still ok. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 28 12:57:46 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader In-Reply-To: <199807281645.MAA05918@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <199807281801.SAA18814@cyber2.servtech.com> At 12:35 28-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >My girlfriend and I have a PDP with a Charles River Data Systems RL02 >clone. Anyone know a boot loader for this puppy? > >(Funny thing is, Charles River Data Systems is less than two blocks from >my office, noone there knows anything about the drives :) Tony, tell us what PDP model it is! (PDP-11/23 or -11/44 or PDP-8/E, or etc. etc.) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 28 13:22:34 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader Message-ID: <199807281826.OAA24751@charity.harvard.net> Oopsie... Sorry... PDP-11/23 (i even called her at work cause I couldn't remember wether it was the 23 or the 34) Tony :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Fandt [mailto:cfandt@servtech.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 1:58 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: PDP Boot Loader > > > At 12:35 28-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >My girlfriend and I have a PDP with a Charles River Data Systems RL02 > >clone. Anyone know a boot loader for this puppy? > > > >(Funny thing is, Charles River Data Systems is less than two > blocks from > >my office, noone there knows anything about the drives :) > > Tony, tell us what PDP model it is! (PDP-11/23 or -11/44 or > PDP-8/E, or > etc. etc.) > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ > From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Tue Jul 28 13:32:45 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Dual floppy drive In-Reply-To: <199807281631.AA05773@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Megan wrote: > I recently got one of those combo drives -- the one with both a > 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy built in. It is the Teac FD505... I Hmm, I managed to dig up a paper copy of the docs for it. But in the mean time someone shot out the URL to Teac's much more legible version ;) Good luck with it. -WC From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jul 28 15:34:13 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop In-Reply-To: <35BDEB31.D79@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 28, 98 10:16:01 am Message-ID: <199807282034.OAA02861@calico.litterbox.com> You might try ftp.apple.com. Don't know if they have macos there, but they certainly have all the 8 bit operating systems. They seem to have a policy of releasing OSs for no-longer-supported platforms, so maybe they'd have older versions of MacOS. That failing, let me know, Somewhere around here I have the install disks for MacOS 7.0, and I THINK owning a mac gives you a license to an operating system - although I'd have to check. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 28 14:36:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Qbus music boards In-Reply-To: <199807281640.AA13862@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 28, 98 12:40:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2383 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980728/967e7917/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 28 17:27:49 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: <199807282034.OAA02861@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: I did a little junk surfing at lunch today. I came home with an HP9815A, which is pretty cool, but it was generally a frustrating experience. I kept finding parts of cool systems, but not the systems themselves! Teaser parts: * paper tape * Terak keyboard and display * Toshiba t300 keyboard * MasPar boards * Xerox box with two 8" floppies (no model number) I'm thinking of going back to continue the hunt for the Terak. How many variations were there on system boxes? Feel free to point me to pix, so I can show them around ("hey mister, have you seen this box?"). -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 28 18:04:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 28, 98 05:27:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980729/d056c987/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Tue Jul 28 18:52:51 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm thinking of going back to continue the hunt for the Terak. How many > variations were there on system boxes? Feel free to point me to pix, so I > can show them around ("hey mister, have you seen this box?"). The MasPar boards are the real gems in this lot. If you go back to this pile and decide not to purchase the boards, please get them anyway! There are probably a few of us on this list that might be interested. William Donzelli william@ans.net From kroma at worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 28 19:14:29 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <001801bdba85$db7904c0$6c86440c@kroma-i> >You might try ftp.apple.com. Don't know if they have macos there, but >they certainly have all the 8 bit operating systems. They seem to have a >policy of releasing OSs for no-longer-supported platforms, so maybe they'd have >older versions of MacOS. > Try ftp://dev.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/US/Macintosh/S ystem -- Kirk From kyrrin at jps.net Tue Jul 28 19:46:40 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: FW: Fellow wants to buy a VS3100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35c170a2.1591468@smtp.wa.jps.net> Check this out. If you want to make a quick $90 on any VS3100's you've got, this fellow's looking. I only have one left, so I'm hanging onto it for now. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:57:17 -0700, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: Eric DeArment >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: WTB >>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:57:17 -0700 >>Organization: Oregon Public Networking >>Lines: 17 >>Message-ID: >>NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.fiber.net!news-stk-2.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.cs.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!ejd >>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:2338 comp.sys.dec.micro:272 >> >>I'm looking for a VAXstation 3100 with ULTRIX installed. I don't need a >>kb, mouse or monitor, since I already have a vt220 that I can use, but I >>will need one of the special cables that you need to hook up the terminal >>up to the computer. >> >>I don't have that much money (I've allocated about $140 for this), so I'm >>looking for something that I can buy for around $90 or so. >> >> Thanks >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------ >>| , | Eric DeArment | >>|"An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." | | >>|"The Truth Against the World." | ejd@efn.org | >>------------------------------------------------------ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 28 19:36:48 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:34 2005 Subject: Dual floppy drive In-Reply-To: <199807281631.AA05773@world.std.com> Message-ID: >I recently got one of those combo drives -- the one with both a >5.25" and a 3.5" floppy built in. It is the Teac FD505... I >currently have a Teac FD-55GFV (RX33) on my RQDX3 at home... is >anyone familiar with the two drives? Can I replace eht RX33 with I'm not sure the newer Teac floppies are as multi-architecture friendly. Recently I bought a brand new 5.25" Teac for a project that I was working on. The manufacturer of the controller board went so far as to list Teac drives as being the best ones to use. I spent two days fighting with it before in desparation I pulled the one out of my old 486 (an older model Teac). It worked flawlessly, first try. Needless to say the new drive is now in the 486, and I picked up a bunch of older Teac 5.25" drives at the last swapmeet. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rax at warbaby.com Tue Jul 28 21:01:19 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Virus Alert (serious shit!) Message-ID: Most of you prolly know about these, but for those Windoze users who haven't: http://www.utexas.edu/cc/ds/alerts/win32cih.html http://www.sjmercury.com/business/tech/docs/security072898.htm -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 28 19:58:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) Message-ID: <19980729005818.1759.qmail@hotmail.com> This is the second time I am emailing support@compaq.com. Both times, they have given me an automated reply that I should use forum.compaq.com for the information they have posted, which might be what I'm looking for. They warn me of the fact that their state- of-the-art Internet technology (javascript and cookies) won't allow me to use the site without IE3 or Netscape 2. So much for Lynx. And all I wanted was a price quote for a new keyboard for the LTE I got a few weeks ago! I noticed some people on this list have experience with these things, so a)does anyone have any extra LTE Lite/25 keyboards? b)Is the PS/2 port on the back for a keyboard? If so, can I use an external kb without an internal one? I haven't had much luck so far. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From gram at cnct.com Tue Jul 28 20:33:53 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: Message-ID: <35BE7C01.2AFFF5DB@cnct.com> Doug Spence wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > > Uhhh... I still use a rotary dial telephone, with extremely loud clanger. > > > Not in my room, but the household's main phone is one 'o those. It's the > > > only 'public' one in the house, all the other ones sit in someone's > > > bedroom. > > > > One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers > ^^^^^^^ > Mine's a Northern Electric clunker. :) I guess Northern Electric might could have been the marketing arm in the GWN for WE kit -- Western Electric was the major manufacturing division of AT&T back in the bad old monopoly days -- though people moved back and forth between WE and Teletype and Ma Bell with little difficulty, just pick up the folder at Personnel and go. Bell Labs invented things, Western Electric or Teletype built them, AT&T corporate sold the stock and the services. > > Is there a Classic Telephony list? This thing seems to have been > constructed in the 50s. Haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Hell, my wife has joined no less than four lists dedicated to "Beanie Babies". If you think _this_ list gets traffic ... the world is hooked on cuteness and I didn't have to die to go to hell. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Tue Jul 28 20:56:17 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: A few different things References: <199807281641.MAA12328@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <35BE8141.5A61CA2A@cnct.com> Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > I also ran across an HP 700/x X-Terminal. Does anybody know anything about > > these? It looks like it will run a standard 15-pin VGA monitor. It's dirt > > cheap and I'd LOVE to have an another xterm around the house. Any info? > They're pretty nice. They should run 1024x768 SVGA's without too much > problem. They use an keyboard that looks like an HP PS/2 keyboard. > > I don't know where you'd get the software for it -- perhaps HP still > supports it or makes it downloadable from the net. It should take standard X instructions from damned near anything, be it Solaris, HP/ux, AIX, Linux or even AT&T Unix. Without docs it might be tricky to set up the networking -- that's one place where X terminal manufacturers never got even close to concensus. But the ROM should have the needed X-server code. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Jul 28 21:01:43 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807290201.TAA13332@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 08:58 AM 7/27/98 -0400, Allison wrote: >Electronic music: > >One item I reported I had was not from PCC-77 but instead an obscure >event known as the Philadephia Computer Music Festival in 78. That was an >effort of Creative computing. It featured music from: > I hope it wasn't too obscure! I had an exhibit in the 1980 one which was called the "Personal Computer Arts Festival". The music was the first day, visual art the second. For your interest, the music program was: Hal Chamberlin, High quality music synthesis outside of real-time using microcomputers. Laurie Speigel, Computer Composition systems. Rob Moore, The Apple orchestra. Joe Wilson, Computer control of an analog synthesizer. Steve Levine, A collection of computer music experiments for the hobbyist. Bill Mauchly, A discussion of timbre in computer music synthesis. Roger Meyers, A synopsis of computer music composition and techniques from MUSIC 5 to the Synclavier. Rebecca Mercuri, Digital sound research at RCA. Kevin Doren, The Crumar gwneral development system; a large scale digital synthesizer. Jon Bondy, The Casheab 32 voice synthesizer for the S-100 bus. Stuart Newfeld, A disk based music editor and four voice synthesizer for the S-100 bus. Ellen Lapham, Charles Kellner, The Alpha Syntauri computer music keyboard. Cliff Ashcraft, Frank Covitz, Enhanced software for music synthesis using the 6502. AB Computers, The visible music monitor. The evening concert was by: Laurie Spiegal, Hal Chamberlin, Rob Moore, and Frank Covitz & Cliff Ashcraft. Hal C. played (in real time, of course) Bach's T. and Fugue in D minor from a 12.5Mb file, a lot of floppy swapping. -Dave From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue Jul 28 17:06:55 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <19980729005818.1759.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807290144.VAA10272@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:58:17 PDT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Max Eskin" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) > This is the second time I am emailing support@compaq.com. Both times, > they have given me an automated reply that I should use Max, Try that PS/2 port with a straight ps/2 to din 5 adapter if you don't have a ps/2 plug on keyboard. Oh, you can assume compaq on-line tech support as crap and head straight for nearby repair depot that is authorized by compaq. These depots is clearly marked on their doors or in their windows as said so and have placards saying same thing. That is as opposed to reseller authorized which is only selling machines only. They will and can sell you compaq parts that you need to fix your machine if they have a catolog or a computer based cd catolog. I was shocked at $175 (or was that $75) tag for LTE 386s/20 keyboard replacement nearly 3 years ago. That is only way to get needed info and parts. MAKE SURE to grab the "Spares p/n #" and it's marked on your keyboard itself with a label if you don't like the price and this is needed for newsgroups queries in order to obtain used keyboard assembly. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 28 22:11:42 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <199807290144.VAA10272@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 28, 98 10:06:55 pm Message-ID: <9807290211.AA20099@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980728/901ad632/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 28 22:19:18 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader In-Reply-To: <199807281645.MAA05918@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 28, 98 12:35:31 pm Message-ID: <9807290219.AA07479@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980728/9c3e81ba/attachment.ksh From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue Jul 28 17:28:33 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) In-Reply-To: <9807290211.AA20099@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807290144.VAA10272@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 28, 98 10:06:55 pm Message-ID: <199807290206.WAA10393@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:11:42 -0800 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) > X-To: classiccmp@u.WASHINGTON.edu > That price may be very much on the high side, but at least the spares > are available and they are capable of tracking them down and selling > them to you. With many high tech companies effectively changing their > entire staff every couple of years, sometimes you're lucky to find > someone who even remembers that the product line once existed. True to some degree on cost-wise and twice I was quoted for cache modules for early 486 valuepoint and for Deskpro/I series. Just one cache module sold as new from that place I have is enough to buy a used decent 486dx 100 notebook. Staff turnover rate, is very low for this one we have. This is Microage and some of them is been there even remained after moving to present location couple years ago from their original place that they opened in late '70's I think. So they knew nearly everything they're authorized to repair on: apple, hp, compaq and ibm, clones recently. Even there was another building that IBM moved out nearly 5 years ago was there way before '70's and last time I visited there for fun and they're using IBM XT's in '90's! Their sign is individually mounted, old style "I B M" in blue without that lines I think. Jason D. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jul 28 22:30:39 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Moog (on topic, too...) Message-ID: <199807290330.AA03842@world.std.com> < I hope it wasn't too obscure! I had an exhibit in the 1980 one which wa < called the "Personal Computer Arts Festival". The music was the first da < visual art the second. For your interest, the music program was: Electronic music was a popular application in the 76-82 timeframe before midi caught hold. It was activly followed and robotics was another group. Allison From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 28 22:54:10 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: A few different things (X terminals) In-Reply-To: <35BE8141.5A61CA2A@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Jul 28, 98 09:56:17 pm Message-ID: <199807290354.XAA05562@user2.infinet.com> Ward Griffiths wrote: > Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > > >I also ran across an HP 700/x X-Terminal. Does anybody know anything about > > >these? > > It should take standard X instructions from damned near anything, be > it Solaris, HP/ux, AIX, Linux or even AT&T Unix. Without docs it > might be tricky to set up the networking -- that's one place where X > terminal manufacturers never got even close to concensus. But the > ROM should have the needed X-server code. Not in my experience. I have a couple of HDS terminals. They are inert. The system that used to feed them (via tftp) was culled for free space about two weeks before I inquired. :-( We abandoned some NCR X-terms at work because we didn't want to bother to set them up under Solaris (from an ancient AT&T StarServer). In both cases, the ROMs only knew enough to load an image from a LAT server or something similar. If anyone has an old HDS image lying around, I'd love to test out my terminal. -ethan From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Jul 28 23:09:57 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <35BD27E3.A7AD266D@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Jul 27, 98 09:22:43 pm Message-ID: <199807290409.VAA03941@goodnet.com> > to look at the disk to put it on the turntable). I intend to pick up > a CR writer in the next few months and the main purpose is to transfer > material from vinyl and mylar -- its use as a computer peripheral is > secondary (though non-trivial, as I want to make solid archives of a > bunch of old Tandy software among other things). How do you plan to digitize the recordings in the first place? I'd like to do that too, but soundcards are pretty lousy recording devices. I figure it's a fundamental problem to have audio equipment sitting on a computer bus. I'd really like to see an affordable external D/A/D box. (ObClassic) is a NeXT any good at that? -- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 28 23:09:50 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: HP 700/44 terminal to get rid of Message-ID: <35BEA08D.7C2938D9@bbtel.com> I'm really wondering if you guys are talking about the same thing I am here but I have a perfect condition HP 700/44 terminal with rs232 and current loop connections on back, with keyboard. I believe it's monochrome amber and emulates different systems. This is the last (and best) of the batch I had for sale. I'd like $15 plus shipping for this one. Also still have the Visual 102 terminal with keyboard in breat condition, $10 plus shipping - but a little heavier. The DEC VT 220 is spoken for and the DEC 100 is due to get gutted next week.- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Jul 28 23:24:56 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: More Moog In-Reply-To: <003d01bdb951$0f2def00$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> from "Francois" at Jul 27, 98 06:23:31 am Message-ID: <199807290424.VAA06792@goodnet.com> > Since we're on the subject: > I have a small synth that was sold at Radio Shack (Tandy) that is labelled > "Mini Moog Music" Are there any relation to the Moog we're talking about or > did they only used the name for marketting? Seems like I heard that was a repackaged Moog Rogue? -- From red at bears.org Tue Jul 28 23:40:52 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <199807290409.VAA03941@goodnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > (ObClassic) is a NeXT any good at that? The audio input of a standard NeXT computer can only handle 8 bit audio at a maximum of 11 kHz even though the output was "CD-quality" (I forget the exact rate). I can't seem to find the proper technical specification at the moment, but you'll find this is the case. There was a third-party product called "DigitalEars" that utilized the DSP port and provided a fairly professional audio interface for NeXT computers. ok r. From scott at saskatoon.com Wed Jul 29 00:27:49 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <199807290409.VAA03941@goodnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > How do you plan to digitize the recordings in the first place? I'd like > to do that too, but soundcards are pretty lousy recording devices. I figure > it's a fundamental problem to have audio equipment sitting on a computer > bus. I'd really like to see an affordable external D/A/D box. I seem to recall seeing a digital input (optical?) on a SoundBlaster64 (probably with some suffix) recently. If this is the case, you could send the audio into the analogue inputs of your DAT recorder (You do have one of those, don't you?) put the recorder in pause/record, and take the digital output of the DAT to the digital input of the SoundBlaster. You could use an external A/D box, but I expect they would cost as much as a DAT as they tend to be very high quality. Alternately, you could use a professional-grade sound card such as Digital Audio Labs' CardD. (But these aren't cheap either... unless they've gone way down. The last one I sold was about $1000CDN.) ttyl srw From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jul 29 00:34:00 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: HP 700/44 terminal to get rid of In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman's message of Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:09:50 -0500 References: <35BEA08D.7C2938D9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807290534.WAA13939@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > I'm really wondering if you guys are talking about the same thing I am > here but I have a perfect condition HP 700/44 terminal with rs232 and > current loop connections on back, with keyboard. I believe it's > monochrome amber and emulates different systems. No, they're not talking about the same thing. A 700/RX (I think) is an X terminal, meaning it wants to talk X over a network (TCP/IP or maybe DECnet, and yes it probably has an Ethernet interface built-in) with X client programs running on other hosts. A 700/44 is a traditional terminal that wants to send characters across a serial line. In particular the 700/44 emulates a PC terminal and DEC VT52/100/200 terminals. It doesn't do all that HP block-mode stuff that I ramble on about sometimes. -Frank McConnell From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 29 05:44:10 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: References: <199807282034.OAA02861@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Doug wrote: >I did a little junk surfing at lunch today. I came home with an HP9815A, >which is pretty cool, but it was generally a frustrating experience. I >kept finding parts of cool systems, but not the systems themselves! This is a tried and true technique (for me, anyway) for getting stuff you want. Those teaser bits are what I call *bait*. I like to think that buying part of something acts as bait for the rest of it. Frinstance, before I had a Kaypro, I found a padded blue nylon cover for one at a garage sale for two bucks. Of course, I bought it. Sure enough, a few weeks later a Kaypro turned up at another garage sale. Maybe this is too metaphysical for common sense, but it works for me. On the practical side, buying part of something means that you can take advantage of a cheap price when you find the rest of it that's missing the bit you have. Of course, it requires a lot of storage space for all the useless junk you think might come in handy someday... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 29 05:20:01 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: A few different things In-Reply-To: <35BE8141.5A61CA2A@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Jul 28, 98 09:56:17 pm Message-ID: <199807291020.GAA23198@shell.monmouth.com> > > Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > > > I also ran across an HP 700/x X-Terminal. Does anybody know anything about > > > these? It looks like it will run a standard 15-pin VGA monitor. It's dirt > > > cheap and I'd LOVE to have an another xterm around the house. Any info? > > > They're pretty nice. They should run 1024x768 SVGA's without too much > > problem. They use an keyboard that looks like an HP PS/2 keyboard. > > > > I don't know where you'd get the software for it -- perhaps HP still > > supports it or makes it downloadable from the net. > > It should take standard X instructions from damned near anything, be > it Solaris, HP/ux, AIX, Linux or even AT&T Unix. Without docs it > might be tricky to set up the networking -- that's one place where X > terminal manufacturers never got even close to concensus. But the > ROM should have the needed X-server code. Most of the ones I've used (IBM, NCD, HP) tftp or nfs load their image and must boot from a server. Some have telnet support built into rom for troubleshooting. I believe the HP does vt100 telnet emulation and has some setup in rom. Bill Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 29 05:23:50 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <35BE7C01.2AFFF5DB@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Jul 28, 98 09:33:53 pm Message-ID: <199807291023.GAA23837@shell.monmouth.com> > > Doug Spence wrote: > > > > On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > > > > Uhhh... I still use a rotary dial telephone, with extremely loud clanger. > > > > Not in my room, but the household's main phone is one 'o those. It's the > > > > only 'public' one in the house, all the other ones sit in someone's > > > > bedroom. > > > > > > One thing that can be said for those ancient Western Electric clunkers > > ^^^^^^^ > > Mine's a Northern Electric clunker. :) > > I guess Northern Electric might could have been the marketing arm in > the GWN for WE kit -- Western Electric was the major manufacturing > division of AT&T back in the bad old monopoly days -- though people > moved back and forth between WE and Teletype and Ma Bell with little > difficulty, just pick up the folder at Personnel and go. Bell Labs > invented things, Western Electric or Teletype built them, AT&T > corporate sold the stock and the services. > > I believe Northern Electric was the Bell Canada Western Electric and the Canadian Bell Labs (just like you said). I think it became Nortel... Bill From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 29 07:46:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <199807291246.AA12387@world.std.com> < How do you plan to digitize the recordings in the first place? I'd lik < to do that too, but soundcards are pretty lousy recording devices. I fi < it's a fundamental problem to have audio equipment sitting on a compute < bus. I'd really like to see an affordable external D/A/D box. the problem with most A/D and reverse is the resolution, the more bits the slower they are. Also the source data wou;d be uncompressed and hugely bulky. The better sound cards for PCs have the bits and the speed. However you still need over 600mb of disk for some software to "build" the CDR image. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 29 07:58:36 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: HP 700/44 terminal to get rid of References: <35BEA08D.7C2938D9@bbtel.com> <199807290534.WAA13939@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35BF1C7B.E4E5D6@bbtel.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > I'm really wondering if you guys are talking about the same thing I am > > here but I have a perfect condition HP 700/44 terminal with rs232 and > > current loop connections on back, with keyboard. I believe it's > > monochrome amber and emulates different systems. > > No, they're not talking about the same thing. A 700/RX (I think) is > an X terminal, meaning it wants to talk X over a network (TCP/IP or > maybe DECnet, and yes it probably has an Ethernet interface built-in) > with X client programs running on other hosts. A 700/44 is a > traditional terminal that wants to send characters across a serial > line. In particular the 700/44 emulates a PC terminal and DEC > VT52/100/200 terminals. It doesn't do all that HP block-mode > stuff that I ramble on about sometimes. > > -Frank McConnell I saw that after doing some web searching last night at 3/4am. The X terminal seems pretty nice by all means. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 29 08:02:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop References: <01bdb9c8$51388be0$2a28a2ce@laptop> <35BDEB31.D79@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35BF1D56.74BB6FB8@bbtel.com> Poesie wrote: > Well, you can get older versions of the Mac OS from apple, up to I think > system 7.6.1 (? correct me here, mac people.) Just download and then do > what you will with them. as far as apps, I suppose you could find alot > at thrift shops (I find many old school titles for macs there...) or > depending on how old the systems are, you could use NetBSD or some unix > variant :) Sun Remarketing at http://www.sunrem.com/ also sells Mac and Apple OS's at a reasonable cost. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 28 21:31:21 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Followup on the new Imsai Message-ID: <199807291348.JAA22561@charity.harvard.net> Well, I finally got it. Took it apart and found that whomever owned it previously already mounted a power switch in the back and runs all the AC voltage thru there. There is alot of corrosion on the ICs in the front panel, I'm going to need to spend some time cleaning everything up there. One switch and two switch covers are broken but those are easy to replace. Four of the 100 pin card edge connectors need to be replaced (two are just way too loose and corroded, the others are broken). Everything else seems to be fine (the power supply is okay and supplying the proper voltages). Now all I gotta do is order all these parts and enough S-100 cards to complete a CP/M system and I'm all set. Wish me luck! Tony Dellett -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980728/2d619df3/attachment.bin From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Wed Jul 29 08:57:50 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Notebook parts sources In-Reply-To: <19980729005818.1759.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > And all I wanted was a price quote for a new keyboard for the LTE I > got a few weeks ago! I've found notebook parts very hard to obtain. If you ever get through to Compaq, you'll probably find it's not available anyway. Here are some good sources I've found: Phoenix Microsystems 972-446-1005 Notebook parts, many scavenged from used systems. PC Service Source www.pcservice.com (sorry to mention the "P" word here) Parts for all kinds of systems, printers, and peripherals. Including old first-gen laser printers. -Wayne Cox From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 29 08:58:56 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader Message-ID: <199807291405.KAA24730@charity.harvard.net> It dont work. It might be something else but I wanted to check the boot loader first. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 11:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: PDP Boot Loader > > > > My girlfriend and I have a PDP with a Charles River Data > Systems RL02 > > clone. Anyone know a boot loader for this puppy? > > > > (Funny thing is, Charles River Data Systems is less than > two blocks from > > my office, noone there knows anything about the drives :) > > Seeing how CRDS only made RL02 emulation systems for PDP-11 platforms, > what happens when you try the bootstrap at: > > http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/p > dp-11/bootstraps/ > > ? > > Tim. > From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 29 11:28:14 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: References: <199807282034.OAA02861@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <199807291631.QAA17148@cyber2.servtech.com> At 02:44 29-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >Doug wrote: > >>I did a little junk surfing at lunch today. I came home with an HP9815A, >>which is pretty cool, but it was generally a frustrating experience. I >>kept finding parts of cool systems, but not the systems themselves! > >This is a tried and true technique (for me, anyway) for getting stuff you >want. Those teaser bits are what I call *bait*. I like to think that buying >part of something acts as bait for the rest of it. Frinstance, before I had >a Kaypro, I found a padded blue nylon cover for one at a garage sale for >two bucks. Of course, I bought it. Sure enough, a few weeks later a Kaypro >turned up at another garage sale. Maybe this is too metaphysical for common >sense, but it works for me. On the practical side, buying part of something >means that you can take advantage of a cheap price when you find the rest >of it that's missing the bit you have. > >Of course, it requires a lot of storage space for all the useless junk you >think might come in handy someday... Hey! So _that's_ why I am having a problem in moving my stuff out of our old house into the new house!!! I can't _believe_ how much has accumulated over the 21 years I've been in the old house. Same thing held very true for me: find a piece of something and the rest will turn up later. I've got a _lot_ of pieces of electronic gear but not that many complete systems/units. Oh well. The new house is a bit smaller and I have a bit of a problem. Someday you'll see me here advertising to get shed of some excess old computer bits (mostly old PC-type stuff.) I want to let the reflector members have a chance at them before I try other ways to get rid of them at hamfests, etc. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From jsalzman at hersheys.com Wed Jul 29 11:44:53 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers Message-ID: My teasers cost me more money in the long run. I keep looking for something in great condition and end up spending a little extra for the first one I find in any condition for fear of not finding another one again. Then for the next few months, all the low cost, great condition units start becoming available. Jeff Salzman jeff@zymurgy.net >>This is a tried and true technique (for me, anyway) for getting stuff you >>want. Those teaser bits are what I call *bait*. I like to think that buying >>part of something acts as bait for the rest of it. Frinstance, before I had >>a Kaypro, I found a padded blue nylon cover for one at a garage sale for >>two bucks. Of course, I bought it. Sure enough, a few weeks later a Kaypro >>turned up at another garage sale. Maybe this is too metaphysical for common >>sense, but it works for me. On the practical side, buying part of something >>means that you can take advantage of a cheap price when you find the rest >>of it that's missing the bit you have. >> >>Of course, it requires a lot of storage space for all the useless junk you >>think might come in handy someday... > >Same thing held very true for me: find a piece of something and the rest >will turn up later. I've got a _lot_ of pieces of electronic gear but not >that many complete systems/units. Oh well. > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 29 11:48:30 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: ps/2 m50z setup Message-ID: <199807291648.AA02050@world.std.com> Please reply offlist as this is not a true classic. Well maybe as the scanjet is! I'm trying to setup the HPscanjet on my ps/2 and of course the startup is complaining about the new interface. I have the refdisk for the ps/2 but not the required setup disk for the scanject interface. Any suggestions? Until I crack this the system will not boot with the card in place unless, is there is a bypass procedure? Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 29 11:46:52 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Easy way to get rid of gunk Message-ID: <199807291650.MAA15529@charity.harvard.net> Is there an easy way to get rid of the black corrosion on the IC's of my IMSAI front panel? I've been considering rebuilding it but if there is an easy way to clean it then so be it. Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980729/0d27fe5d/attachment.bin From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 29 11:52:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Easy way to get rid of gunk In-Reply-To: <199807291650.MAA15529@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980729115242.53b7883a@intellistar.net> At 12:46 PM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Is there an easy way to get rid of the black corrosion on the IC's of my >IMSAI front panel? Yeah, pack the whole thing up and send it to me :-) Joe From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 12:16:38 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980728114449.36071930@ricochet.net> At 09:33 PM 7/23/98, you wrote: >I found a strange looking computer today. It's a Grid 1535 EXP computer and >it has a extra pod that clamped on the computer. The pod contains a HP-IB >port. There an empty slot to the left of the HP-IB port, what's it for? Got one recently too. The 1535 is (iirc) a 386, the pod on the bottom is an expansion box. Has two slots (though I've not yet opened it to verify that they're ISA slots.) Pretty interesting doohicky. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 12:16:43 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980728151243.3607083a@ricochet.net> At 11:53 AM 7/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >ok, yet another Q for those of you out there who have run across these. >anyone have a suggestion for where i might come across a ~20mb RLL >drive? 3.5" size, don't have the model #'s on me at the moment although What you're looking for is: 3.5" 20MB Hard Disk Drive (T3100/20) JVC : JD3824ROTO Number of heads: 4 Number of cylinders: 612 Average access time: 78ms Recording method: 2-7 RLL TEST/TEST3 setup type: 2 Dunno where to find one, though, other than another T3100/20. (And no, you can't have mine!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 29 12:33:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Salzman, Jeff wrote: > My teasers cost me more money in the long run. I keep looking for > something in great condition and end up spending a little extra for the > first one I find in any condition for fear of not finding another one > again. Then for the next few months, all the low cost, great condition > units start becoming available. This should be in the FAQ because, however superstitious it is, this is an adage that seems to be the case for many of us. Its sort of like a Murphy's Law. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 29 12:51:23 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers Message-ID: <1998Jul29.135007.1767.124521@smtp.itgonline.com> Or O'Toole's Rule which states that Murphy was an optimist. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Teasers Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/29/98 1:36 PM On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Salzman, Jeff wrote: > My teasers cost me more money in the long run. I keep looking for > something in great condition and end up spending a little extra for the > first one I find in any condition for fear of not finding another one > again. Then for the next few months, all the low cost, great condition > units start becoming available. This should be in the FAQ because, however superstitious it is, this is an adage that seems to be the case for many of us. Its sort of like a Murphy's Law. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul29.133632.1767.54466; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:36:32 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA24242; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:33:45 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA16416 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:33:35 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.net [204.247.247.54]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA02923 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:33:34 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar@shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA17464 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: Teasers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 29 12:51:16 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: ps/2 m50z setup Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-29 12:49:59 EDT, you write: << I'm trying to setup the HPscanjet on my ps/2 and of course the startup is complaining about the new interface. I have the refdisk for the ps/2 but not the required setup disk for the scanject interface. Any suggestions? Until I crack this the system will not boot with the card in place unless, is there is a bypass procedure? >> what you are missing is the .adf file for the option you installed. you need to copy the .adf file to the reference disk and then run auto config. you might want to post on comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and see if anyone knows what the filename is for the option you installed. david From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 29 13:15:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980728151243.3607083a@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 11:53 AM 7/26/98 -0500, you wrote: > >ok, yet another Q for those of you out there who have run across these. > >anyone have a suggestion for where i might come across a ~20mb RLL > >drive? 3.5" size, don't have the model #'s on me at the moment although > > What you're looking for is: > > 3.5" 20MB Hard Disk Drive (T3100/20) > JVC : JD3824ROTO > Number of heads: 4 > Number of cylinders: 612 > Average access time: 78ms > Recording method: 2-7 RLL > TEST/TEST3 setup type: 2 Roger, those numbers don't sound right. At the very least, that should be a 30mb drive. But with the number of sectors that they are packing onto a disk these days, it would doubtless be much higher. There is a JVC JD3824TA listed with 2 heads and 436 cylinders and 48 sectors per track that is 21mb capacity. - don > Dunno where to find one, though, other than another T3100/20. (And no, you > can't have mine!) > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 29 15:17:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: from "Salzman, Jeff" at Jul 29, 98 12:44:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980729/a496553a/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 29 19:30:43 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader In-Reply-To: <199807291405.KAA24730@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 29, 98 09:58:56 am Message-ID: <9807292330.AA29242@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980729/8b982125/attachment.ksh From denny.smith at juno.com Wed Jul 29 18:38:50 1998 From: denny.smith at juno.com (denny.smith@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Signup? Message-ID: <19980729.193216.5471.2.denny.smith@juno.com> Would some kind soul please send me an email with instructions on how to sign up for this mail list? Thanks. Dennis Smith denny.smith@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 29 19:57:24 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980728114449.36071930@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980729195724.3a47ebfe@intellistar.net> At 10:16 AM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:33 PM 7/23/98, you wrote: >>I found a strange looking computer today. It's a Grid 1535 EXP computer and >>it has a extra pod that clamped on the computer. The pod contains a HP-IB >>port. There an empty slot to the left of the HP-IB port, what's it for? > >Got one recently too. The 1535 is (iirc) a 386, the pod on the bottom is >an expansion box. Has two slots (though I've not yet opened it to verify >that they're ISA slots.) Pretty interesting doohicky. One side of my box says XT and the other says AT. There is an 8 bit ISA slot on the XT side and a 16 bit ISA slot on the AT side. I found a power supply yesterday and fired it up today. It has a plasma display but I need to find out how to get into the setup. I also found a some GRID 120 plug in hard drives. I don't think they fit the 1535 though or if they do I don't know how to install them. Joe From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Jul 29 16:20:46 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: TO: Rca systemlink 5 remote codes and how to program this one? In-Reply-To: <9807292330.AA29242@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807291405.KAA24730@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 29, 98 09:58:56 am Message-ID: <199807300058.UAA17174@commercial.cgocable.net> Sorry, guys, Quickie Q for this subject by private email. www.rca.com didn't give info for this older remote #: rcu100 or RCA systemlink 5. Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 29 20:20:25 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980729195724.3a47ebfe@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > supply yesterday and fired it up today. It has a plasma display but I need > to find out how to get into the setup. There is no BIOS-level setup in ROM. You probably have DOS in ROM. Try holding down the 'R' key during the boot. If you get into DOS, look for a program named CONFIG or something similar. Things like drive geometry are hard-coded in the BIOS. > I also found a some GRID 120 plug in hard drives. I don't think they fit > the 1535 though or if they do I don't know how to install them. The number doesn't ring a bell. They're defintely not for the 1535, though. If they have a sort-of key ring thing on the end, they may be for the 1537 (TEMPEST model). -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 29 20:27:09 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: References: >> >> My teasers cost me more money in the long run. I keep looking for >> something in great condition and end up spending a little extra for the >> first one I find in any condition for fear of not finding another one >> again. Then for the next few months, all the low cost, great condition >> units start becoming available. > >Been there, seen that! > >My first PDP11 came as just the bare CPU + RK11-C controller. No drives >or I/O cards. I spent a lot of money (relatively) on my first RX02, RK05 >and some cards. 1 month later, people were giving me the things ! > >Still, I'd be kicking myself if I didn't get that first unit and none >tunred up later, and that's happened to me as well. The unit I saw and >bought in not too good condition is the only one I've ever seen. I've a theory on this. In some cases I believe that the initial outlay is essential. Think of it as planting a seed. You've got to plant the seed for it to grow. Likewise you've got to by the initial non-functional VAX or PDP for the pieces to start turning up and falling into place, often at much better prices. At least this is how it worked with my VAXen, as a result of getting the VS II/RC which didn't work, I was looking at a junk sale for parts. I ended up getting a functional MV2 and a LOT of parts from one of the other guys at the sale a few days latter for a lot less than the VS II/RC. The same junk sale provided me with my PDP-11's, which I've slowly been adding to, and now have one of operational and souped up thanks to additional finds. Zane >> >> Jeff Salzman >> jeff@zymurgy.net > >-tony | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 29 21:07:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Teasers Message-ID: <199807300207.AA18744@world.std.com> >My first PDP11 came as just the bare CPU + RK11-C controller. No drives >or I/O cards. I spent a lot of money (relatively) on my first RX02, RK05 >and some cards. 1 month later, people were giving me the things ! Gee, my first -11 was an 11/10 bought (refurbished from Digital) back in 1979 or so... it was the CPU box only. No interfaces save for the console terminal (at 20ma). I didn't even have an H960 to put it in. I had to buy that from Digital salvage later on... I finally found some RX02s and a controller, TU60 deccassette and controller and I was off... I ran RT-11 and the virtual terminal software (which later became VTCOM) and worked from home over an AJ 300 baud modem... Later on I got a DF02 and was able to do 600baud, and a DF03 and 1200baud... Oh yeah, I took a loan (home improvement :-) to get the -11... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Joshu2415 at aol.com Wed Jul 29 22:13:32 1998 From: Joshu2415 at aol.com (Joshu2415@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . Message-ID: <2c7054c9.35bfe4de@aol.com> I have an NEC MultiSpeed HD Laptop. If you are interested in it, I am accepting bids. After bidding, as new bids come in, you will be notified. The highest bid as of 11:59 PM Central time, August 15, 1998 is final. Thanks for your time, Matt at Joshu2415@aol.com From stanp at storm.ca Wed Jul 29 22:30:52 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question References: Message-ID: <35BFE8EC.AAF89A3C@storm.ca> I've picked up a TK50z-ga (TK50 in a box with a SCSI bridge card inside) recently. The scsi controller in my *c does see it, but the board/drive doesn't return any id when probed. What I'd like to do is pull the TK50 and put in a TK70 (for anonther system, not the 486). The question of the day is: Are the two drives interface compatible? Thanks..... Stan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 29 22:17:33 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980729195724.3a47ebfe@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980729221733.3a4755fc@intellistar.net> At 08:20 PM 7/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > >> supply yesterday and fired it up today. It has a plasma display but I need >> to find out how to get into the setup. > >There is no BIOS-level setup in ROM. You probably have DOS in ROM. Try >holding down the 'R' key during the boot. If you get into DOS, look for a >program named CONFIG or something similar. Things like drive geometry are >hard-coded in the BIOS. I tried holding down the R key and a bunch of others with no effect. The error message that I'm getting says "No System file". I'm afraid the hard drive has been erased. I don't have an external drive, is there anyway to restore the system files without the external drive? > >> I also found a some GRID 120 plug in hard drives. I don't think they fit >> the 1535 though or if they do I don't know how to install them. > >The number doesn't ring a bell. They're defintely not for the 1535, >though. If they have a sort-of key ring thing on the end, they may be for >the 1537 (TEMPEST model). I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid 120" and had a connector at one end. Joe > >-- Doug > > From gram at cnct.com Wed Jul 29 22:40:23 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:35 2005 Subject: Signup? References: <19980729.193216.5471.2.denny.smith@juno.com> Message-ID: <35BFEB27.E8499D28@cnct.com> denny.smith@juno.com wrote: > > Would some kind soul please send me an email with instructions on how > to sign up for this mail list? Thanks. > > Dennis Smith denny.smith@juno.com > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Hate to say this, but your best bet is to find another email provider than Juno, since many of us have it severely killfilled. I don't, I set all of my killfile entries to a three month recycle out of kindness and the hope of reform that rarely happens. You _are_ signed up for the list -- your message arrived. This does not mean that everybody will see them -- and no, I am _not_ a list administrator -- killfiles are individual choices. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 29 22:41:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . In-Reply-To: <2c7054c9.35bfe4de@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 Joshu2415@aol.com wrote: > I have an NEC MultiSpeed HD Laptop. > If you are interested in it, I am accepting bids. > After bidding, as new bids come in, you will be notified. > The highest bid as of 11:59 PM Central time, > August 15, 1998 is final. If anyone really wants one of these I can pick two up (unknown condition) at a local thrift store for $4.98 each and ship it at your cost. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 29 22:45:18 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Signup? In-Reply-To: <35BFEB27.E8499D28@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > You _are_ signed up for the list -- your message arrived. This does > not mean that everybody will see them -- and no, I am _not_ a list > administrator -- killfiles are individual choices. Actually, you can send messages to the list without having to be subscribed. I do it all the time when I have a message come in to another one of my mailboxes and want to forward it on to CC. So I've come to figure that all of these people who have been randomly poking their heads in once in a while with bizarre requests have been sending messages via some portal on some web page somewhere. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From gram at cnct.com Wed Jul 29 23:17:35 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: The Moog References: <199807291246.AA12387@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35BFF3DF.4E9DAC85@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > < How do you plan to digitize the recordings in the first place? I'd lik > < to do that too, but soundcards are pretty lousy recording devices. I fi > < it's a fundamental problem to have audio equipment sitting on a compute > < bus. I'd really like to see an affordable external D/A/D box. > > the problem with most A/D and reverse is the resolution, the more bits > the slower they are. Also the source data wou;d be uncompressed and > hugely bulky. The better sound cards for PCs have the bits and the > speed. However you still need over 600mb of disk for some software > to "build" the CDR image. I figure with 200+ MHz or so of CPU and a decent recent sound card, reproduction will be at least as good as a Walkman, and with 6 GB disks down to $200 or less, space is available for the temp files, and those can be gzip'd from when the disk is cut until the output is verified (and be stored on Zip disks or whatever while they're compressed). -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Wed Jul 29 23:28:50 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Arrrgh! Compaq (off topic) References: <9807290211.AA20099@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35BFF682.908B0224@cnct.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > I was shocked at $175 (or was that $75) tag for LTE 386s/20 keyboard > > replacement nearly 3 years ago. > > That price may be very much on the high side, but at least the spares > are available and they are capable of tracking them down and selling > them to you. With many high tech companies effectively changing their > entire staff every couple of years, sometimes you're lucky to find > someone who even remembers that the product line once existed. That was true even back in my Tandy days, but for some reason the instructors and customer support reps hung around while watching generations of salesthings and managers come and go. But there was a serious turnover when the company went entirely PC compatible. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Wed Jul 29 23:33:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Virus Alert (serious shit!) References: Message-ID: <35BFF795.5B3DCAAF@cnct.com> Rax wrote: > > Most of you prolly know about these, but for those Windoze users who haven't: > > http://www.utexas.edu/cc/ds/alerts/win32cih.html > > http://www.sjmercury.com/business/tech/docs/security072898.htm > > -- > > Warbaby > The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. > http://www.warbaby.com > > The MonkeyPool > WebSite Content Development > http://www.monkeypool.com > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. Doesn't matter -- it doesn't affect most classic computers, and too many classic computer folks who also use new computers are using Linux and other non-MS operating systems to care -- those that _are_ hit generally have good backups, not a common thing with Windoze drones. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 30 00:23:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: <35BFE8EC.AAF89A3C@storm.ca> References: Message-ID: >I've picked up a TK50z-ga (TK50 in a box with a SCSI bridge card >inside) >recently. The scsi controller in my *c does see it, but the board/drive >doesn't return any id when probed. What I'd like to do is pull the TK50 >and put in a TK70 (for anonther system, not the 486). >The question of the day is: Are the two drives interface compatible? OK, by *c I'm guessing you mean PC, or to put it another way a PC running some kind of Microsoft OS. If this is correct I'd say you are out of luck. I seem to rememeber reading a few months back about someone having limited success getting a PC running Linux to access one, but couldn't get it to function properly. I believe the problem is with the way DEC designed the SCSI bridge. The TK50 and TK70 require separate controllers. Now the question of the day is why you would want to waste them on a PC when you could attach them to a nice VAX! :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 30 01:04:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980729221733.3a4755fc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > I tried holding down the R key and a bunch of others with no effect. The > error message that I'm getting says "No System file". I'm afraid the hard > drive has been erased. I don't have an external drive, is there anyway to > restore the system files without the external drive? Hmm, 'R' right after power-up should let you boot from whatever's in ROM. If that doesn't work, you might try either taking the hard disk out and accessing it from another box, or put a SCSI or floppy controller in your expansion box and try booting from another device ('F' would force a floppy boot, but I don't know if that works from the expansion tray). > I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid > 120" and had a connector at one end. Those sound like the removable hard drives from my GRiD 1810, one of the made-in-Japan plastic GRiDs. -- Doug From cdrmool at interlog.com Thu Jul 30 01:05:05 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Old computer promotional video's Message-ID: I have recently come across a couple of video's at a thrift shop that were fun to watch. One was called "In business with Macintosh" which was probably from the early 90's and the other was an IBM video of a conference in which they present OOT. Neither are "classic" in their subject matter, but I was wondering if anyone has any that are. I would thrilled beyond belief to see a promo video for "Lisa". I'm sure they must have considering their efforts to sell the thing. Anything old would be a hoot. IBM must have put out tons of stuff. Colan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 02:09:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Old computer promotional video's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > I have recently come across a couple of video's at a thrift shop that were > fun to watch. One was called "In business with Macintosh" which was > probably from the early 90's and the other was an IBM video of a > conference in which they present OOT. Neither are "classic" in their > subject matter, but I was wondering if anyone has any that are. I would > thrilled beyond belief to see a promo video for "Lisa". I'm sure > they must have considering their efforts to sell the thing. Anything old > would be a hoot. IBM must have put out tons of stuff. As a matter of fact, one of the events planned for the Vintage Computer Festival is a screening of old computer films from the 50s, 60s and 70s. A film archive in San Francisco called Oddball Films will be presenting the screening. It hasn't been announced on the VCF web page yet because we are still in the planning phase (selecting the films to play), but I expect the feature will be announced in another two weeks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 05:07:04 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: FS Imsai 8080 software Message-ID: <19980730100705.2245.qmail@hotmail.com> Happened to see on Ebay someone selling twenty 8" diskettes of software for the Imsai 8080. Last I looked the bid was only $10. Thought someone would want to know. If so here is the link to it... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23296702 By the way. I see where Ebay is going public with an IPO. Does anyone know how to buy this at the IPO price? The underwriters are Goldman Sachs and Donaldson, Lufkin and Jenrette. I have tried to find a broker who can deal with them but have not any luck BW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Jul 30 06:07:43 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980729221733.3a4755fc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730070743.007d7b10@netpath.net> If they are matchboxed sized, they might be from a GRiDPad... At 01:04 AM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid >> 120" and had a connector at one end. > >Those sound like the removable hard drives from my GRiD 1810, one of the >made-in-Japan plastic GRiDs. From npapadon at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 08:01:17 1998 From: npapadon at hotmail.com (Nick Papadonis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: cromemco hdd Message-ID: <19980730130118.25263.qmail@hotmail.com> Anyone heard of, or know any information about a Cromemco Model HD-11 7710 Hard Disk Memory System. I believe the hard disk was made by Disk Sys Internation Inc. Someone recentley offered me one. Any insight appreciated. - Nick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Jul 30 08:54:38 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader Message-ID: <199807301413.KAA01777@charity.harvard.net> I'll forward this to my girlfriend and let her answer it, she's the one trying to get the thing to go :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 8:31 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: PDP Boot Loader > > > > It dont work. > > You know, if you gave us more detailed information about how > exactly it doesn't work (does it hang? Does it trap out? > Do you get an error message?) we might be able to help you. > > > It might be something else but I wanted to check the boot > > loader first. > > More details about the rest of your system might very well be > in order! > > Tim. > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 14:15:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980729105654.5cbfa85a@ricochet.net> At 02:34 PM 7/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >MacOS 7.0, and I THINK owning a mac gives you a license to an operating system >- although I'd have to check. MacOS through 7.0 is freely available from apple, and can be copied legally. 7.1 and above are still commercial products (not available for free or legally copiable.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 14:15:53 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: The Moog Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980729111148.5df7fd30@ricochet.net> At 09:09 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >How do you plan to digitize the recordings in the first place? I'd like >to do that too, but soundcards are pretty lousy recording devices. I figure >it's a fundamental problem to have audio equipment sitting on a computer >bus. I'd really like to see an affordable external D/A/D box. The Atari Falcon (while not quite 10 years, I think) had a built-in Motorola DSP (56661?) in it for digitial recording. Dunno your definition of "affordable," but they can be had for around $600. Just add a big SCSI hd... One thing, though, the DSP in the Falcon records at (iirc) 48mumblemumble instead of the 44(?)mumblemumble used for CD's. (I forget what it's measured in but the Falcon is off a little, so you have to do some finagling to get it onto the CD or whatever. A little research in the Atari newsgroups should take care of it.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From maynard at jmg.com Thu Jul 30 09:05:27 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 Message-ID: <199807301505.LAA02971@mr-gateway.internal.net> Well I landed an amazing C64 software score, with boxed sets of Ultima I, all the Zork series, Neuromancer, an editor assembler package, a koala pad, a bunch of joysticks, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember. The boxes and manuals are in almost _pristine_ condition! Didn't pay a dime... one of the guys I work with was amazed that I liked this stuff and pulled it out of his basement to give to me for a beer. Well, OK; I paid a beer. ;-) Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these dead keys '5, 7, 9, and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard controller, but I must confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64 accepts key presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know of a fix? Thanks, --jmg From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 19:06:09 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: HP 9000/345 Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980729170200.25e7e00a@ricochet.net> Okay, so I picked up an HP 9000/345 (and a /310) and an HP-IB HD unit with 3 5.25" FH hard drives in it. And I've got an HP-IB cable. So, what else do I need to get a unix-ish box up and running? Note, the HD was not purchased from the same place as the 9000, so the chances of it having a valid OS on it are slim. I did come across the HP9000 FAQ, but it doesn't really address my situation. As I understand it, I can run either HP-UX or NetBSD, of which the latter is the more affordable option? So, any tips on what to do next (aside from hooking them together and turning them on to check for smoke leaks) would be greatly appreciated. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 18:25:57 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980729150446.264f78d0@ricochet.net> At 11:15 AM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >> 3.5" 20MB Hard Disk Drive (T3100/20) >> JVC : JD3824ROTO >> Number of heads: 4 >> Number of cylinders: 612 > >Roger, those numbers don't sound right. At the very least, that should >be a 30mb drive. But with the number of sectors that they are packing >onto a disk these days, it would doubtless be much higher. Wasn't that the same number of heads & cylinders as an ST-225? But that was MFM and this is "2-7 RLL", so I think you're right, RLL oughta give you 30mb... But, that's straight from Toshiba's specs file for the T3100 & T3100/20. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Jul 29 18:25:58 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one of the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD's is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at Target for $8 on sale. So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! Oh, and latest finds: another Panasonic Senior Partner (I really need the specs on these if ya got 'em!) and one of those HP ThinkJets which I'm actually gonna hook up to my Dad's computer (as soon as I figure out where all those printer cables I use to have are!) Most interesting was a Cable Demodulator. Yep, not a MOdulator/DEModulator (MODEM), but just a Demodulator. Apparently, TCI at one time sent out a free signal on the cable that could be read by anyone with a PC and one of these boxes. So, anyone know if they still do that, and what software one would need? I also picked up a Mobidem, sans cable, of course, which appears to be a radio modem made by Ericsson. If anyone has any info on this.... Last but not least, a Datasonix Pereos tape drive. It's a little unit not much bigger than a microcassette that is supposed to be able to back up a GB on a single cartridge. Unfortunately, I got no tapes with it, and the only source I've found so far (www.datasonix.com) is pretty pricey considering I don't know if it works. Anyone know of a cheaper source for these tapes? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Thu Jul 30 09:35:54 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: HP 9000/345 In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729170200.25e7e00a@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Jul 29, 98 05:06:09 pm Message-ID: <199807301435.KAA00130@shell.monmouth.com> > > Okay, so I picked up an HP 9000/345 (and a /310) and an HP-IB HD unit with > 3 5.25" FH hard drives in it. And I've got an HP-IB cable. So, what else > do I need to get a unix-ish box up and running? Note, the HD was not > purchased from the same place as the 9000, so the chances of it having a > valid OS on it are slim. > > I did come across the HP9000 FAQ, but it doesn't really address my situation. > > As I understand it, I can run either HP-UX or NetBSD, of which the latter > is the more affordable option? > Affordable. NetBSD=free. NetBSD=legal. http://www.netbsd.org Affordable. OpenBSD=free. OpenBSD=legal. http://www.openbsd.org HP-UX for the 68k platform costs. I don't know how much HP will want. The last version for the 68k was 9.x (I don't know how far into 9. it went.) HP stopped supporting 9.07 last month. I don't know if they'd still sell it. If someone out there is charitable and has an old HP-UX cd that they no longer use (i.e. the machine is gone) they might voluntarily send it to you. (Not quite legal -- but HP probably won't know that you did that, would they). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Thu Jul 30 09:40:18 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Jul 29, 98 04:25:58 pm Message-ID: <199807301440.KAA02693@shell.monmouth.com> > Oh, and latest finds: another Panasonic Senior Partner (I really need the > specs on these if ya got 'em!) and one of those HP ThinkJets which I'm > actually gonna hook up to my Dad's computer (as soon as I figure out where > all those printer cables I use to have are!) > Those Senior Partner's were quite nice. I've got one. I just wish they had more expansion slots. At least they can run on fax paper for printing. Bill From desieh at southcom.com.au Thu Jul 30 09:35:44 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <000001bdbbc7$559731e0$d0173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Uncle Roger > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 9:26 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds > > > The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a > sudden one of > the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there > and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD's > is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at > Target for $8 on sale. > > So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in > mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an > issue. Thanks! > > Oh, and latest finds: another Panasonic Senior Partner (I really need the > specs on these if ya got 'em!) and one of those HP ThinkJets which I'm > actually gonna hook up to my Dad's computer (as soon as I figure out where > all those printer cables I use to have are!) > > Most interesting was a Cable Demodulator. Yep, not a > MOdulator/DEModulator > (MODEM), but just a Demodulator. Apparently, TCI at one time sent out a > free signal on the cable that could be read by anyone with a PC and one of > these boxes. So, anyone know if they still do that, and what software one > would need? > > I also picked up a Mobidem, sans cable, of course, which appears to be a > radio modem made by Ericsson. If anyone has any info on this.... > > Last but not least, a Datasonix Pereos tape drive. It's a little unit not > much bigger than a microcassette that is supposed to be able to back up a > GB on a single cartridge. Unfortunately, I got no tapes with it, and the > only source I've found so far (www.datasonix.com) is pretty pricey > considering I don't know if it works. Anyone know of a cheaper source for > these tapes? > > Thanks! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > well i have big single room house out the back of my property which housees my 200+ computers i have wall to wall tables which then have computer stacked on top of and under them at the moment though, it is almost impossable to get in the shed because of the giant VAXes i have in the room.......... i have to get around somtime to tidying it all up most of the time though when i buy somthing it just gets stashed in the shed........ *Desie* From jsalzman at hersheys.com Thu Jul 30 09:52:33 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 Message-ID: For Commodore 64 repairs, see Ray Carlsen's repair page at: http://www.prismnet.com/~bo/commie/repair.html Your specific problem may not be addressed here, but at the top of the page, there are e-mail links to Ray. He is very knowledgable and helpful on Commodore repairs. I consulted him via e-mail once for a broken SX-64 I picked up. He helped me get it working again. You can also get schematics of the C64 at: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/c64/ Jeff Salzman > Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these dead keys '5, 7, 9, >and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard controller, but I must >confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64 accepts key >presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know of a fix? > From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Jul 30 10:04:56 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729105654.5cbfa85a@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730110456.007d9ce0@netpath.net> I love how Apple handled that. I just wish you could do the same on Microsoft's site. Windows 3.0 and below, DOS 5.0 and below would do the trick! At 12:15 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 02:34 PM 7/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >>MacOS 7.0, and I THINK owning a mac gives you a license to an operating >system >>- although I'd have to check. > >MacOS through 7.0 is freely available from apple, and can be copied >legally. 7.1 and above are still commercial products (not available for >free or legally copiable.) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 30 10:33:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807301533.AA14352@world.std.com> Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD' < is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at < Target for $8 on sale. < < So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep < mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Than Steel racks like the cheap industrial versions. Most of the shelves with aluminum standards are too light weight. I'd suggest the stronger ones or floor standing racks. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 10:40:19 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: ps/2 m50z setup References: Message-ID: <35C093E3.C0BB9FE0@bbtel.com> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-29 12:49:59 EDT, you write: > > << I'm trying to setup the HPscanjet on my ps/2 and of course the startup > is complaining about the new interface. I have the refdisk for the ps/2 > but not the required setup disk for the scanject interface. Any > suggestions? > > Until I crack this the system will not boot with the card in place > unless, is there is a bypass procedure? >> > > what you are missing is the .adf file for the option you installed. you need > to copy the .adf file to the reference disk and then run auto config. you > might want to post on comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and see if anyone knows what > the filename is for the option you installed. Peter Wendt in Germany has a Microchannel Enthusiasts Page at http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm and has a program for free download known as QBMCA that will look at the adapter cards and show the ID and name info for each card. Once you know the ID number, he also has a ton of ADF's (unless HP has a newer one on their support site). If the card comes up as, say, 5D1F then you need to get _5D1F.ADF and rename it to @5D1F.ADF and put it either on your reference disk or a disk by itself, then when prompted by the reference program you give it the disk with the proper ADF and it will copy and use the file as needed. Viola! You have a functional machine again. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 10:43:22 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Mac SE SuperDrive password Message-ID: <35C09499.D14652DC@bbtel.com> A buddy of mine just got a Mac SE Superdrive computer that he says has a hardware pasword. Any ideas on how to disable it - jumpers, key combos, pull the battery, software, what? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Jul 30 11:54:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Jul 29, 98 04:25:58 pm Message-ID: <9807301554.AA07567@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980730/e2da8c37/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 11:09:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <9807301554.AA07567@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35C09AD6.59D430EB@bbtel.com> In addition to this great and sturdy idea, he may want to wrap poultry wire or a similar item around the open ends of the shelves (in panels to still allow access) so that when the big one comes in SF they won't be flung off the shelf from the whipping action that occurs with the quake/plate slip. My ex brother in law had his shop tolls done similarly (like a parts cage) and when he live at Presidio the tools all stayed on the shelves, after a pretty hefty quake - the one that nailed SF bad last time. Of course it doesn't prevent the building from falling down on the collection and smahing everything flat. Tim Shoppa wrote: > > The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > > according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one of > > the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there > > and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > > > So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in > > mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! > > What I like are the 48"x24"x72" "Industrial-duty" shelf units available > from places like Home Depot. The ones I get are rated at 1500 lbs > per shelf and have 5 shelves, and cost about US$70-$80 each. > > Earthquake preparedness is handled (to some extent) by anchoring the units to > studs in the wall. If you're much above ground floor, though, this isn't > going to stop the contents of the shelves being flung onto the floor > (I was there for Loma Prieta and Northridge, so I know...). Putting > bungee cords around the perimeter of each shelf is the standard way > of dealing with keeping the contents on the shelf during the shaking, > and seems to do fine with quakes of Northridge size and smaller. > > Of course, all the rack-mountable stuff goes into DEC H960's. The > 960's are on casters and the hope is that they'll roll with an > earthquake rather than toppling, as they aren't anchored to any walls. > > Tim. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Jul 30 11:12:46 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Mac SE SuperDrive password In-Reply-To: <35C09499.D14652DC@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730121246.007e2ea0@netpath.net> I've seen this before on Mac II systems. It is on the hard drive I think, at least in my case it was. All I did was low level the drive and it did fine after that. (Note: I used my PC to do the low level, hooked it back up to the mac, partitioned/formatted and installed software) At 10:43 AM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: > A buddy of mine just got a Mac SE Superdrive computer that he says has >a hardware pasword. Any ideas on how to disable it - jumpers, key >combos, pull the battery, software, what? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Thu Jul 30 11:24:39 1998 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Mac SE SuperDrive password Message-ID: <23234533DD4@orchid.le.ac.uk> On 30 Jul 98 at 10:43, Russ Blakeman wrote: > A buddy of mine just got a Mac SE Superdrive computer that he says has > a hardware pasword. Any ideas on how to disable it - jumpers, key > combos, pull the battery, software, what? The password on an SE can only be implemented at software level on the boot volume (internal hard disk), so you can forget about batteries and jumpers. Guess 1: the password is implemented using a fairly insecure shareware tool. Try holding down the Shift key on boot up. If the Mac is running System 7 or greater this (usually) prevents extensions from loading. You can then try to identify the extension (INIT in older Mac speak) that is locking down the computer. Note: there are one or two utilities that can disable Shift-booting in System 7. Try booting from System 6 or 7 Disk Tools (downloadable from ftp.info.apple.com) which both work fine on an SE. You will need a Mac to generate the boot disk. Try booting from this disk and try looking for a suspicious extension or INIT in the System Folder. If necessary, move all of the extensions (or INITs) out of the system folder altogether (eg folder at root area of hard disk); the Mac SE will still boot without them. Guess 2: If you've moved all of the extensions and you're still getting a password dialog box, it may well be a more sophisticated security tool (eg FileGuard, Empower). Boot from your Disk Tools disk yet again and run "Apple HD SC Setup". With any luck, you should see the name of the hard disk and it will be identified (most likely) as SCSI Device 0. Press on the "Update" button to replace the SCSI driver on the hard disk (surprisingly this will defeat some of the older security tools). Don't be surprised if a dialog box pops up asking for a password. Even then you're not necessarily 100% stuck. If the security software has encrypted the hard drive, the only solutions are to enter the correct password or to format the hard drive. The security software will even try to prevent you from formatting the hard drive but there are ways around this. If the security software has not encrypted the drive, you can boot from a floppy and supress scanning of the SCSI bus on startup by holding down Command-Option-Shift-Backspace. You can then use a disk editor such as Norton to hack away at the boot blocks to remove the offending software. The hard disk will no longer boot but you can access the contents; running the "Update" function on "Apple HD SC Setup" will repair the disk sufficiently so that you can reinstall the System software. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 12:15:52 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Mac SE SuperDrive password References: <23234533DD4@orchid.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <35C0AA47.EE1B30E0@bbtel.com> Phil Beesley wrote: > The password on an SE can only be implemented at software level on > the boot volume (internal hard disk), so you can forget about > batteries and jumpers. I'll pass it along, thanks much. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 12:26:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . Message-ID: <19980730172611.8451.qmail@hotmail.com> What is a multispeed anyway? Is it a turbo XT? How much does it weigh? > >If anyone really wants one of these I can pick two up (unknown condition) >at a local thrift store for $4.98 each and ship it at your cost. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/26/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 12:31:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in > mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! Unfortunately, mine is all stored in big heaps, one unit stacked upon the next. I have little things like laptops and cables and crap like that in boxes to make them stackable. Big things like S-100 and PDP boxen are stacked about 5 or 6 feet high with an unstackable terminal to cap it off. Little things are crammed into whatever nooks and crannies are left over. Things like ASR33's are always a problem. I had shelf space at one point but it is now taken up by the all-in-one systems like the PETs and Lisa and some terminals. Now all the shelf space is crammed. Its a nightmare. I don't recommend this sort of storage arrangement. I don't know where anything is and couldn't get at it anyway even if I did. But it allows me to store the massive amounts of computer junk I have until I can find a suitable space to do it justice. What I recommend to Roger is to first, add an extra support to your shelves, and make sure you are anchoring them properly with drywall anchors (if you are mounting the shelves to drywall). Then, pack your laptops and such inside boxes with some foam in between. That way, if there is another episode, or an earthquake hits and the computers fall, at least they will be moderately protected from damaging each other when they hit the floor. You also might want to consider getting some netting to prevent the boxes from falling in the first place (in an earthquake at least). I imagine this would cost some bucks but maybe Target has a good net material cheap in the garden section. Try Home Depot for ideas also. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 12:36:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: mac os stuff WAS: Re: Zenith Data Systems laptop Message-ID: <19980730173611.7563.qmail@hotmail.com> But microsoft would have to change the license for that. Apple never sold System 7.0 and below as a commercial product, so they didn't really 'handle' it. Of course, you could always get Linux, X11, wine, and DOSemu to take care of your problem (albeit in 10 times the disk space :) > >I love how Apple handled that. I just wish you could do the same on >Microsoft's site. Windows 3.0 and below, DOS 5.0 and below would do the trick! > >At 12:15 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 02:34 PM 7/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >>>MacOS 7.0, and I THINK owning a mac gives you a license to an operating >>system >>>- although I'd have to check. >> >>MacOS through 7.0 is freely available from apple, and can be copied >>legally. 7.1 and above are still commercial products (not available for >>free or legally copiable.) >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- >> >>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >>roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >>San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 30 12:39:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: HP 9000/345 In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729170200.25e7e00a@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980730123945.45b7dbba@intellistar.net> Roger, That's about all you need if you want to use a terminal to run it. If you want to use a keyboard and monitor, send me the model number from your video card and and I'll try to find out what HP monitor you need. I have some HP keyboards and probably have the right ones for your systems. Do they have one or two dots or bumps next to the keyboard ports? If so, it uses the HP-HIL keyboards. What model hard drives did you get? There's lots of stuff to consider when setting up the hardware in the system but hopefully that's all done in your's. Joe At 05:06 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, so I picked up an HP 9000/345 (and a /310) and an HP-IB HD unit with >3 5.25" FH hard drives in it. And I've got an HP-IB cable. So, what else >do I need to get a unix-ish box up and running? Note, the HD was not >purchased from the same place as the 9000, so the chances of it having a >valid OS on it are slim. > >I did come across the HP9000 FAQ, but it doesn't really address my situation. > >As I understand it, I can run either HP-UX or NetBSD, of which the latter >is the more affordable option? > >So, any tips on what to do next (aside from hooking them together and >turning them on to check for smoke leaks) would be greatly appreciated. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 30 12:00:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980729221733.3a4755fc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980730120053.45b703fa@intellistar.net> At 01:04 AM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I tried holding down the R key and a bunch of others with no effect. The >> error message that I'm getting says "No System file". I'm afraid the hard >> drive has been erased. I don't have an external drive, is there anyway to >> restore the system files without the external drive? > >Hmm, 'R' right after power-up should let you boot from whatever's in ROM. >If that doesn't work, you might try either taking the hard disk out and >accessing it from another box, or put a SCSI or floppy controller in your >expansion box and try booting from another device ('F' would force a >floppy boot, but I don't know if that works from the expansion tray). > OK I'll try that. Probably be a while before I have a chance though. >> I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid >> 120" and had a connector at one end. > >Those sound like the removable hard drives from my GRiD 1810, one of the >made-in-Japan plastic GRiDs. OK, Do you need some more? Joe > >-- Doug > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 30 12:14:40 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980730070743.007d7b10@netpath.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980729221733.3a4755fc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980730121440.45b79a3e@intellistar.net> No, they're bigger than a match box. About the size or a cigarettte pack but slightly longer. I'd love to find a match box size hard drive! Joe At 07:07 AM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >If they are matchboxed sized, they might be from a GRiDPad... > >At 01:04 AM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>> I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid >>> 120" and had a connector at one end. >> >>Those sound like the removable hard drives from my GRiD 1810, one of the >>made-in-Japan plastic GRiDs. > > From rector at usa.net Thu Jul 30 01:06:02 1998 From: rector at usa.net (Daniel E. Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: ps/2 m50z setup References: <199807300702.AAA00558@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35C00D4A.3C9E@usa.net> > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:30 -0400 > From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: RE: ps/2 m50z setup > Message-ID: <199807291648.AA02050@world.std.com> > > Please reply offlist as this is not a true classic. Well maybe as the > scanjet is! > > I'm trying to setup the HPscanjet on my ps/2 and of course the startup > is complaining about the new interface. I have the refdisk for the ps/2 > but not the required setup disk for the scanject interface. Any > suggestions? > > Until I crack this the system will not boot with the card in place > unless, is there is a bypass procedure? > > Allison Allison, It sounds like you need the .adf file for that particular piece of hardware. Once the adapter definition is installed on your system (think of it as a bios extension). Things should boot okay then. Try NCRs site: http://www3.ncr.com/support/pc/pcdesc/library/adfs.shtml They have .adf files for all kinds of stuff. Another decent PS/2 site with all sorts of general info is: http://www.computercraft.com -- Dan Rector email: rector at usa.net From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Jul 30 13:11:30 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: a whatsits: Grid 1535 EXP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980730121440.45b79a3e@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980730070743.007d7b10@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730141130.007c73f0@netpath.net> They do make them now, I have heard of older drives that size, none over 20mb though. Your drives sound almost like a standard 2.5" drive. At 12:14 PM 7/30/98, you wrote: >No, they're bigger than a match box. About the size or a cigarettte pack >but slightly longer. I'd love to find a match box size hard drive! > > Joe > >At 07:07 AM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >>If they are matchboxed sized, they might be from a GRiDPad... >> >>At 01:04 AM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>> I didn't notice a ring. They were cigarette size boxs and marked "Grid >>>> 120" and had a connector at one end. >>> >>>Those sound like the removable hard drives from my GRiD 1810, one of the >>>made-in-Japan plastic GRiDs. >> >> > From buck_c at polygon.com Thu Jul 30 13:21:27 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <35C0B9A6.8A4647FA@polygon.com> So I've captured a few new machines - now all I have to do is figure out what to do with them. 1. Fortune 32/16 - System, seperate SCSI tape drive, no HD. No software. Help! 2. 7 (count 'em, 7) Wang systems. I'll have model numbers &such tomorrow (something along the lines of PC-02). Only three monitors, only one keyboard. Two 5 1/4 flopies per, no software. Any help would be a start. Most have Network cards of some kind - is this ethernet? Each has two BNC connecters. Almost looks like a daisy-chain system of some kind. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Jul 29 09:23:53 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Old computer promotional video's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199807301827.OAA18787@smtp.interlog.com> On 30 Jul 98 at 2:05, cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > > I have recently come across a couple of video's at a thrift shop that were > fun to watch. One was called "In business with Macintosh" which was > probably from the early 90's and the other was an IBM video of a > conference in which they present OOT. Neither are "classic" in their > subject matter, but I was wondering if anyone has any that are. I would > thrilled beyond belief to see a promo video for "Lisa". I'm sure > they must have considering their efforts to sell the thing. Anything old > would be a hoot. IBM must have put out tons of stuff. > > > Colan > Good to see you aboard. There's a neat 8580 tutorial on the IBM BBS called Explore. Can't recall the exact filename but it is in the same directory as the PS/2 reference disks. It's really well done. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Jul 29 09:23:52 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <35C09AD6.59D430EB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807301827.OAA18827@smtp.interlog.com> On 30 Jul 98 at 11:09, Russ Blakeman wrote: > In addition to this great and sturdy idea, he may want to wrap poultry wire or a > similar item around the open ends of the shelves (in panels to still allow > access) so that when the big one comes in SF they won't be flung off the shelf > from the whipping action that occurs with the quake/plate slip. My ex brother in > law had his shop tolls done similarly (like a parts cage) and when he live at > Presidio the tools all stayed on the shelves, after a pretty hefty quake - the > one that nailed SF bad last time. Of course it doesn't prevent the building from > falling down on the collection and smahing everything flat. > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > > The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > > > according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one of > > > the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there > > > and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > > > > > So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in > > > mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! > > > > What I like are the 48"x24"x72" "Industrial-duty" shelf units available > > from places like Home Depot. The ones I get are rated at 1500 lbs > > per shelf and have 5 shelves, and cost about US$70-$80 each. > > > > Earthquake preparedness is handled (to some extent) by anchoring the units to > > studs in the wall. If you're much above ground floor, though, this isn't > > going to stop the contents of the shelves being flung onto the floor > > (I was there for Loma Prieta and Northridge, so I know...). Putting > > bungee cords around the perimeter of each shelf is the standard way > > of dealing with keeping the contents on the shelf during the shaking, > > and seems to do fine with quakes of Northridge size and smaller. > > > > Of course, all the rack-mountable stuff goes into DEC H960's. The > > 960's are on casters and the hope is that they'll roll with an > > earthquake rather than toppling, as they aren't anchored to any walls. > > > > Tim. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman In Tim Robbins novel "Even Cowgirls" , the "Chink" quotes the Indians as saying they knew the white man was crazy but not so completely bonkers as to live in such a place when they had had demonstrations of the quakes powers. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jul 30 13:28:57 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807301828.AA06024@world.std.com> Most of my collection is on the floor, or on tables. Since you live in SF, land of earthquakes, I will recommend something I learned from years of boating... "If something can possibly end up on the floor.. ... start it there..." Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 30 14:24:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: ps/2 m50z setup Message-ID: <199807301924.AA04097@world.std.com> < Peter Wendt in Germany has a Microchannel Enthusiasts Page at < http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm and has a program for free < known as QBMCA that will look at the adapter cards and show the ID and n that was a big help. Thanks everyone that get me to the point were I can start testing the scanner... Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 30 14:42:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Help! Grid 1535 EXP Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980730144218.44c77886@intellistar.net> I tried removing the hard drive and connecting it to a PC in order to reload everything as Doug sugested. The drive is a Conner CP-3044 (2 heads 1047 cylinders, 42 Mb IDE). MS-DOS chokes on anything over 1024 cylinders so I tried to run it on the PC with the cylinders set at 1024 and 1047 but the system said "Drive 0: initialization failure" every time. Does anyone know what drive geometry the Grid uses? I don't *think* the drive is actually bad since I got past this point with the drive installed in the Grid. Will the Grids boot from the external floppy drive? If so, does anyone have one that I can borrow long enough to reload DOS and FastLynx? Joe From erd at infinet.com Thu Jul 30 15:55:16 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 29, 98 10:23:23 pm Message-ID: <199807302055.QAA10379@user2.infinet.com> Some person whose name has been stripped off by the listserv wrote: > >I've picked up a TK50z-ga (TK50 in a box with a SCSI bridge card > >inside) > >recently. The scsi controller in my *c does see it, but the board/drive > >doesn't return any id when probed. Is there any chance of getting a copy of the ROM on the SCSI bridge card? I've got a TK50Z-FA, and have been trying to upgrade it to a -GA. I tried DEC a while back, but the part number in their system shows zero availability. When they had them, it was a $4 part. I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. :-) -ethan From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jul 30 16:23:57 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <199807301533.AA14352@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 30, 98 11:33:18 am Message-ID: <199807302123.PAA09096@calico.litterbox.com> The best computer shelves I've found were sold in the SF bay area at Orchard supply hardware. The brand name was "Gorilla Rack". They're heavy, and you need a hammer to put them together but the shelf supports are about 14 guage steel angle 2 1/2 inches by an inch quarter inch pressboard on top. The whole assembly weighs 50 or 60 pounds unloaded, but I've got a pc, it's monitor, a scanner, a laser printer, a box of cassette tapes, and a tv on the one I have. It still has room and shows no signs of strain. I've seen these at Home Depot under another name. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 16:47:09 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <199807302123.PAA09096@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Jim wrote: > The best computer shelves I've found were sold in the SF bay area at Orchard > supply hardware. The brand name was "Gorilla Rack". They're heavy, and you > need a hammer to put them together but the shelf supports are about 14 Gorilla Racks are good. Very sturdy and they hold a lot of weight. You can get them cheaper at Home Depot (basically, everything is cheaper at Home Depot). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Thu Jul 30 17:04:30 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Rescue list Message-ID: <199807302204.SAA15897@dgs.cs.unc.edu> I've finished mangling e-mail addresses on the rescue squad volunteer list. If you find any mistakes, or dislike what the random number generator did to you, let me know about it. (Those requests should probably go just to me, and not to the whole list.) Later, Bill. From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 17:15:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: Help! Grid 1535 EXP References: <3.0.1.16.19980730144218.44c77886@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35C0F09B.8357F633@bbtel.com> Try the "translated" parameters of 977 cyl / 5 hd / 17 spt for that drive since your controller is restricted to drives under 1024 cyl's. Joe wrote: > I tried removing the hard drive and connecting it to a PC in order to > reload everything as Doug sugested. The drive is a Conner CP-3044 (2 heads > 1047 cylinders, 42 Mb IDE). MS-DOS chokes on anything over 1024 cylinders > so I tried to run it on the PC with the cylinders set at 1024 and 1047 but > the system said "Drive 0: initialization failure" every time. Does anyone > know what drive geometry the Grid uses? I don't *think* the drive is > actually bad since I got past this point with the drive installed in the > Grid. Will the Grids boot from the external floppy drive? If so, does > anyone have one that I can borrow long enough to reload DOS and FastLynx? > > Joe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Thu Jul 30 17:19:30 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:36 2005 Subject: EPROMs Message-ID: <199807302219.SAA16077@dgs.cs.unc.edu> I've got a big handful of 27128's here that I don't need. If you have anything smaller than a 2764 (ie: anything from a 1708 up to a 2732), and would like to trade one-for-one, give me a holler. Cheers, Bill. From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Jul 30 17:17:15 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? Message-ID: <000601bdbc07$eaaad8a0$8af2fea9@mainoffice> Does Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale have a web site? How about a phone# (the one that I have "...has been disconnecte.")? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 30 17:38:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? In-Reply-To: <000601bdbc07$eaaad8a0$8af2fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Does Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale have a web site? How about a phone# > (the one that I have "...has been disconnecte.")? Yes, but you have to know how to spell weird :-) http://www.weirdstuff.com Tell 'em one of the local weird collectors sent you. -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Thu Jul 30 17:42:46 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Help! Grid 1535 EXP References: <3.0.1.16.19980730144218.44c77886@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35C0F6E6.A2F98E55@rain.org> Joe wrote: > > I tried removing the hard drive and connecting it to a PC in order to > reload everything as Doug sugested. The drive is a Conner CP-3044 (2 > heads Some Conner drives have a built in translation table, and I think that includes the 3044. On a PC, a type 17 (40 MB, can't remember the details) is usually the type that was used with the 40 MB drives. I don't have it handy now, but Conner also has/had the data sheets on most of their drives online, and will include the appropriate translations that can be used with the drive. From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 17:53:16 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Help! Grid 1535 EXP References: <3.0.1.16.19980730144218.44c77886@intellistar.net> <35C0F6E6.A2F98E55@rain.org> Message-ID: <35C0F95B.3D5E8CC8@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Joe wrote: > > > > I tried removing the hard drive and connecting it to a PC in order to > > reload everything as Doug sugested. The drive is a Conner CP-3044 (2 > > heads > > Some Conner drives have a built in translation table, and I think that > includes the 3044. On a PC, a type 17 (40 MB, can't remember the > details) is usually the type that was used with the 40 MB drives. I > don't have it handy now, but Conner also has/had the data sheets on most > of their drives online, and will include the appropriate translations > that can be used with the drive. I've already posted the translated parameter, must have crossed in the mail. Conner is owned by Seagate now and all Seagate and Conner spec sheets can be found at http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/specs/modelno.shtml Nice bookmark to have for those that get lots of drives to test and need instant jumper and parameter info. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jonathan at iastate.edu Thu Jul 30 17:51:37 1998 From: jonathan at iastate.edu (Jon Kavanaugh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: questions about KIM-1, microVAX-1, and Tektronix 4319 Message-ID: <199807302251.RAA31594@isua2.iastate.edu> Hi, I recently acquired a KIM-1 which is mounted inside a wooden case. The board is stamped with a manufacturing date of 3/78 so it was manufactured after Commodore bought MOS technologies. I know that Commodore used metal cases back then. Does anyone know of any third party manufactures that made cases for the KIM-1? This wooden case I have looks too nice to be home made. Second question, I also acquired a microVAX-1. However, the VT240 terminal I attached to it does not appear to be communicating with the VAX. What should the number of data bits, parity, etc. be set to on the VT240? I've tried just about everything I can think of. Could I be using the wrong cable to connect the VAX console port to the terminal? Any help would be appreciated. Third question, I have a Tektronix 4319 workstation with a dead harddrive. Does any one know what maximum size SCSI drive I can connect to it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jonathan Kavanaugh jonathan@iastate.edu From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 30 17:52:43 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807302252.AA16949@world.std.com> < The best computer shelves I've found were sold in the SF bay area at Orc < supply hardware. The brand name was "Gorilla Rack". They're heavy, and < need a hammer to put them together but the shelf supports are about 14 < guage steel angle 2 1/2 inches by an inch quarter inch pressboard on top < The whole assembly weighs 50 or 60 pounds unloaded, but I've got a pc, < it's monitor, a scanner, a laser printer, a box of cassette tapes, and a < on the one I have. It still has room and shows no signs of strain. < < I've seen these at Home Depot under another name. Yes, same here. A simple addition is plywood 1fx2f or 1fx4f (rough size) scred inside the angle steel that form the uprights to form a 3 sided box around the shelf, then one of those cargo nets used for pickup trucks in the front. Properly secured this will hold ANYTHING. RE: earthquake zones. Assuming no fire, racks like that or standard equipment racks can support amazing amounts of weight such that if the "roof" should cave there is support to protect the equipment between and in the racks. Also if racks cannot be tied to the wall, then back to back works or in groups of four with a two back to back and one at each end bolted together as one large unit. The idea is to increase the effective size of the footprint. FYI most equipment racks should have anti tip foot (extensions to the front) to keep their center of gravity from toppling them. Most also have skid feet that were designed to support the rack off the casters, minimally then should be adjusted down so they touch as that will allow sliding but provide better support. Again multiple racks bolted together will provide a very strong unit capable of holding up immense weights. Another disaster trick is if the top of the rack is covered water draining down can't easily get in. Small things can protect the hardware from significant damage. Allison From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jul 30 19:04:24 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <199807301533.AA14352@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35C10A08.863DDC01@texoma.net> in my garage I use "elfa" shelves sold by The Container Store in the Dallas area. Home Depot and Lowes Home Centers sell a slightly lighter duty version of the same shleves often used in closets. in my warehouse I use "gorilla racks" sold by warehouses like Sam's and Costco. It's a version of the snap together industrial warehouse shelving. James Allison J Parent wrote: > > Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD' > < is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at > < Target for $8 on sale. > < > < So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep > < mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Than > > Steel racks like the cheap industrial versions. Most of the shelves with > aluminum standards are too light weight. I'd suggest the stronger ones or > floor standing racks. > > Allison From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 29 20:37:37 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: notebook parts sources Message-ID: <35BFCCFA.64E0@geocities.com> PC Service Source, in my reseller experience, seems to always charge high prices & take forever for parts they say are "in stock". not bad for some things, and they will try to get things you can't find anywhere else; but they are rather irritating because several times we were told the parts were in stock and ended up waiting months for them to become available. my two cents. -Eric P.S. - If anyone is interested, I'm willing to provide an edited copy of my windows cardfile of vendors. have about 1000 pages, w/ contacts for alot of diff manufacturers. email privately if interested. :) Wayne Cox wrote: > PC Service Source www.pcservice.com (sorry to mention the "P" word > here) Parts for all kinds of systems, printers, and peripherals. > Including old first-gen laser printers. > > -Wayne Cox From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 29 20:57:16 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: m88k info Message-ID: <35BFD2FC.6BA9@geocities.com> I was at a computer junk store the other day and saw a long flat computer case/box; about 3 inches high, about 18 wide and 10 long. It was some sort of unix terminal/system/something, because it still had a label with the network host name etc on it. BUT- it said m88k on it! it might have also said NCR but I'm not sure. what kind of things are used on the 880x0's? I know NetBSD has an m88k port but who or what would have originally run on such things, and how old are they? I have to admit it piqued my curiosity. If possible I'm going back to grab the thing. One last question- how do the 88k's compare to the 68k's or a MIPS chip? I remember some discussion about SGI switching to MIPS instead of using the 88k due to slow development or something to that effect. (whether that's true or not I have no idea, so don't flame me :) -Eric From sunmoon at rmi.com Thu Jul 30 19:04:09 1998 From: sunmoon at rmi.com (Sunbear) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . Message-ID: <003101bdbc16$bef87be0$92265da6@default> I want one...I'll pay shiping and the $4.98...PLease email me with info... Thanx Michael Sunbear(*) -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Attention Collectors . . . > > > > > > > > > >What is a multispeed anyway? Is it a turbo XT? How much does it >weigh? > > >> >>If anyone really wants one of these I can pick two up (unknown >condition) >>at a local thrift store for $4.98 each and ship it at your cost. >> >>Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar@siconic.com >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >>Ever onward. >> >> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 >> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! >> [Last web page update: 07/26/98] >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Jul 30 19:19:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: notebook parts sources References: <35BFCCFA.64E0@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35C10D90.5C0E0033@bbtel.com> Poesie wrote: > PC Service Source, in my reseller experience, seems to always charge > high prices & take forever for parts they say are "in stock". not bad > for some things, and they will try to get things you can't find anywhere > else; but they are rather irritating because several times we were told > the parts were in stock and ended up waiting months for them to become > available. my two cents. Appreciate the info, got the same feeling myself when I called them today. The search will continue until I find a reliable source, no hurry. > -Eric > > P.S. - If anyone is interested, I'm willing to provide an edited copy of > my windows cardfile of vendors. have about 1000 pages, w/ contacts for > alot of diff manufacturers. email privately if interested. :) > > Wayne Cox wrote: > > > PC Service Source www.pcservice.com (sorry to mention the "P" word > > here) Parts for all kinds of systems, printers, and peripherals. > > Including old first-gen laser printers. > > > > -Wayne Cox -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:29:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <19980731002943.12436.qmail@hotmail.com> Of course, you might as well buy pipe and strong wood from home depot, drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations. That gorilla rack will probably cost more. > >The best computer shelves I've found were sold in the SF bay area at Orchard >supply hardware. The brand name was "Gorilla Rack". They're heavy, and you >need a hammer to put them together but the shelf supports are about 14 >guage steel angle 2 1/2 inches by an inch quarter inch pressboard on top. >The whole assembly weighs 50 or 60 pounds unloaded, but I've got a pc, >it's monitor, a scanner, a laser printer, a box of cassette tapes, and a tv >on the one I have. It still has room and shows no signs of strain. > >I've seen these at Home Depot under another name. >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@calico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 30 19:57:50 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? In-Reply-To: <000601bdbc07$eaaad8a0$8af2fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980730175750.00e78410@mail.wa.jps.net> At 18:17 30-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >Does Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale have a web site? How about a phone# >(the one that I have "...has been disconnecte.")? Check my web page under http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin/calswap.html. I have Weird Stuff (and most of the other Bay Area stores) listed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Jul 30 21:03:40 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <19980731002943.12436.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 30, 98 05:29:42 pm Message-ID: <9807310103.AA27702@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980730/a2f49503/attachment.ksh From stanp at storm.ca Thu Jul 30 20:20:30 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question References: Message-ID: <35C11BDE.30243906@storm.ca> Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I've picked up a TK50z-ga (TK50 in a box with a SCSI bridge card > >inside) > >recently. The scsi controller in my *c does see it, but the board/drive > >doesn't return any id when probed. What I'd like to do is pull the TK50 > >and put in a TK70 (for anonther system, not the 486). > >The question of the day is: Are the two drives interface compatible? > > OK, by *c I'm guessing you mean PC, or to put it another way a PC running > some kind of Microsoft OS. If this is correct I'd say you are out of luck. You're right on that guess. I just had it plugged into the 486 to see if it would show up on a scsi inquiry, indicating some chance of working...... > I seem to rememeber reading a few months back about someone having limited > success getting a PC running Linux to access one, but couldn't get it to > function properly. I believe the problem is with the way DEC designed the > SCSI bridge. > > The TK50 and TK70 require separate controllers. :-{( > > > Now the question of the day is why you would want to waste them on a PC > when you could attach them to a nice VAX! :^) I was really planning on hooking it up to my Alpha :-}) , which is why a little more than ~90MB of tape would be nice....What I was thinking is using the Alpha (axpci33 running NetBSD) to write a boot tape for the MV3600. Looks like it's net boot time....If I could afford one, I'd be looking at a DLT2000 or 4000. But then again, they won't write tapes that the tk70 in the MV3600 can read... <> Thanks....... Stan From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Jul 30 20:13:53 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Signup? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980730170010.602ff6a2@ricochet.net> At 11:40 PM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hate to say this, but your best bet is to find another email provider >than Juno, since many of us have it severely killfilled. I don't, I Not everyone can afford a different provider... >You _are_ signed up for the list -- your message arrived. This does Actually, one need not be signed up to send messages to the list. So he probably isn't, and probably doesn't have web access to be able to find a FAQ. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Jul 30 20:13:59 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980730173843.54ef2bde@ricochet.net> At 02:23 PM 7/29/98 +0000, you wrote: > In Tim Robbins novel "Even Cowgirls" , the "Chink" quotes the Indians as >saying they knew the white man was crazy but not so completely bonkers >as to live in such a place when they had had demonstrations of the quakes >powers. Well, Quakes can be interesting, but really what they mean is your house/office/whatever is going to be better built than elsewhere, and you grow up with an instinctive eye for not putting breakables in precarious places. Besides, I'd rather live somewhere that had occassional earthquakes rather than a regular tornado, hurricane, or blizzard season... 8^) A lot of people suggested stronger shelves, which would be a good idea except that we're talking 7 sets of shelves (plus a whole lot of computers that I keep promising my girlfriend will get put in there) so $50/set is a lot of dough. Does anyone have any experience with overloading the plastic shelves? We have some running around here, but I don't know how strong they are. As for starting what will end up on the floor on the floor, that would be cool too, but I only have so much floor space (The house across the street just went on the market -- 2700 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, yard: $695K, and no, I don't live in a rich neighborhood.) and everybody pisses and moans as it is about the computers strewn throughout the house already. 8^) A lot of people suggested chicken wire or bungees to hold things on the shelves, which prompted me to think of a low-cost solution my GF's sister-in-law came up with: twine. Lace twine around/through the vertical supports. Surplus phone wire or such would work too, I think. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 20:54:49 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <35C10A08.863DDC01@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, James L. Rice wrote: > in my garage I use "elfa" shelves sold by The Container Store in the > Dallas area. Home Depot and Lowes Home Centers sell a slightly lighter > duty version of the same shleves often used in closets. in my warehouse > I use "gorilla racks" sold by warehouses like Sam's and Costco. It's a > version of the snap together industrial warehouse shelving. Another good rack is the Metro brand. They are a wire mesh shelf with hollow tubing for the supports. The shelves have rings that slip over the tubes, and the height of each shelf is set by a split plastic sheath that clamps around the tubing and wedges into the shelf hole. They are very sturdy and hold an enormous amount of weight. I have a four shelf, 2' x 4' rack that is currently supporting what must be about 1000 lbs. A great feature of them is the wire mesh, since it allows for air flow. I currently have one in my home office that is supporting my network cluster. The downside is their price: about $300 for a 2' x 4' 4-shelf rack. However, I got mine at a bankruptcy sale. A west coast home merchandise chain store was selling all their fixtures and stuff, so I bought two 4-shelf 2'x4' racks for $80 a piece and one 2-shelf rack for $50. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 20:56:55 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . In-Reply-To: <003101bdbc16$bef87be0$92265da6@default> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Sunbear wrote: > I want one...I'll pay shiping and the $4.98...PLease email me with info... Sorry, the only one left when I went back went to another claimant. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 30 20:59:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <19980731002943.12436.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Of course, you might as well buy pipe and strong wood from home depot, > drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations. > That gorilla rack will probably cost more. Um, not really. I built a nice 8' x 2' 4-shelf plywood rack and it ended up costing me $80 in lumber and supplies, plus a night to hammer it all together. I got twice the space a Gorilla rack would have given me but at eight times the hassle. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Jul 30 20:54:17 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: ZX-81 custom chip - watizit? Message-ID: <000301bdbc26$38fc9b60$8af2fea9@mainoffice> I just got a ZX-81 kit (unassembled). I didn't know this before, but the ZX uses a custom 40-pin IC to perform certain I/O functions. Is this chip truly "custom" or is it a relabeled Z80 support chip? Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jul 30 21:20:22 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <3ab3eee5.35c129e7@aol.com> I agree, this type of shelf he described is great. i worked at a restaurant once that used these shelves and they very adjustable and extremely sturdy. I have seen these racks for sale at housewares stores for somewhat cheaper than if you went to a business/restaurant supply store. In a message dated 98-07-30 21:56:22 EDT, Sam wrote: << Another good rack is the Metro brand. They are a wire mesh shelf with hollow tubing for the supports. The shelves have rings that slip over the tubes, and the height of each shelf is set by a split plastic sheath that clamps around the tubing and wedges into the shelf hole. They are very sturdy and hold an enormous amount of weight. >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 30 17:17:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: The Moog In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729111148.5df7fd30@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Jul 29, 98 12:15:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1039 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980730/2c4af5e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 30 17:23:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: <199807300207.AA18744@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 29, 98 10:07:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980730/7d5d63d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 30 17:34:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 29, 98 10:23:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980730/46ee0794/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 30 19:04:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 In-Reply-To: <199807301505.LAA02971@mr-gateway.internal.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Jul 30, 98 11:05:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/54b8ff88/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 30 21:24:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: ZX-81 custom chip - watizit? In-Reply-To: <000301bdbc26$38fc9b60$8af2fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 30, 98 09:54:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 417 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/fc4cecf7/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jul 30 20:55:58 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: Tim Shoppa's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:03:40 -0800 (PDT) References: <9807310103.AA27702@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <199807310155.SAA07120@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tim Shoppa wrote: > I'm not sure exactly what a "gorilla rack" is, but the industrial > shelf units I buy (about US$70 for 5 24"x48" shelves, 72" high, each > shelf rated for 1500 lbs) would be hard to duplicate for less money. > And nothing beats their ease of assembly. A "Gorilla Rack" is the Harry Homeowner implementation of the same idea. 72" high, three to five 18"x30" shelves I think (numbers from memory). Available at Costco, Home De[s]pot, and Orchard out here in Sillycon Valley, you might substitute Hechingers for the latter, generally priced in the $45-$60 range. Comes in an expensive cardboard box suitable for bringing home in an immaculate SUV. I've used a few of them as well as some larger ones that I've picked up from a company that excessed its shipping and receiving department and will happily confirm that (a) size matters and (b) bigger is better. So...where are you getting yours from? I think I need a more reliable supply. -Frank McConnell From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 30 21:39:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807310239.AA24810@world.std.com> > Of course, you might as well buy pipe and strong wood from home depot > drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations. > That gorilla rack will probably cost more. You'd be hard pressed to beat the price and still have it look good. I forget if they were $79 or $89, I got some dirty looks by climbing on on that was at floor level to see how stiff they were. They are. Allison From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Jul 30 21:50:57 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <199807310253.WAA00392@gate.usaor.net> Hello everyone... I have two Tandy 1400HD laptops. One has an NEC V20 processor in it. The other has an actual Intel 8088 processor. I checked with Tandy's support site, and the 1400 series was shipped from the factory with the V20 chip. The one that I have with an 8088 is also from the factory - it's the original processor. The person who gave it to me was the original owner, and she had never had it serviced. When I took it apart to try to fix the power supply, that's when I noticed that the processor was different. When buying a 1400 new, was it possible to order it with the Intel 8088 chip instead of the NEC V20? Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than the one with the V20 (I doubt it)? Any information is appreciated. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#:1730318 From mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu Thu Jul 30 22:02:59 1998 From: mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: m88k info In-Reply-To: <35BFD2FC.6BA9@geocities.com>; from Poesie on Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 08:57:16PM -0500 References: <35BFD2FC.6BA9@geocities.com> Message-ID: <19980730220259.08114@zen.as.utexas.edu> I remember back in '98 when Poesie wrote: > I was at a computer junk store the other day and saw a long flat > computer case/box; about 3 inches high, about 18 wide and 10 long. It > was some sort of unix terminal/system/something, because it still had a > label with the network host name etc on it. > > BUT- > > it said m88k on it! it might have also said NCR but I'm not sure. I know that NCD made some 88k based xterms. When I was at the Univ. of North Texas there were a few (1992, 1990? era) there with nice 19" or 20" fixed frequency monitors. These machines used tftp to boot from a Solaris client. The ones I saw had 4 or 6MB of memory (I know this, b/c I crashed one after a runaway process opened ~100 windows ;) If that's what you have (sound about the right dimensions) it would make a decent Xterm if you could find a monitor and k/b. IIRC the NCDterms I'm thinking of had a light grey box with horizontal indentations along the front and a sort of 1-2-3 boxes pyramid design on the left front. Matt -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@zen.as.utexas.edu -- atwork?astronomy:cs http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler -- (512)471-7450 Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */ From william at ans.net Thu Jul 30 22:08:35 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? In-Reply-To: <199807310253.WAA00392@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: > Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran > out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else > have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than > the one with the V20 (I doubt it)? Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Jul 30 18:31:18 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? In-Reply-To: References: <199807310253.WAA00392@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199807310308.XAA24491@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:08:35 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: William Donzelli > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Rare Tandy 1400??? > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran > > out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else > > have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than > > the one with the V20 (I doubt it)? > > Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar > parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems > getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic > measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking > up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and > customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net In my opinion, better replace that intel 8088 CPU for either 80C88 or V20, any Cmos 8088 cpu's if you can find one. That is to keep power demand low and cooler, means cooler computer and bit longer battery capacity. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Jul 30 22:19:02 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <199807310328.XAA06578@gate.usaor.net> O.K. I've NEVER seen a 1400 with an 8088, though. does anyone have one? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar > parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems > getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic > measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking > up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and > customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 30 23:05:14 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: <35C11BDE.30243906@storm.ca> References: Message-ID: >> Now the question of the day is why you would want to waste them on a PC >> when you could attach them to a nice VAX! :^) > >I was really planning on hooking it up to my Alpha :-}) , which is why a >little Oh, in that case you're forgiven :^) >more than ~90MB of tape would be nice....What I was thinking is using the >Alpha >(axpci33 running NetBSD) to write a boot tape for the MV3600. Looks like it's Actually it might not matter if it's only 90Mb. Unless I'm mistaken doesn't NetBSD only support TK50's on the VAX? I've no idea as to what it supports under Alpha's. You might want to get ahold of the people doing the Alpha port, they've probably got a better idea on this one. >net boot time....If I could afford one, I'd be looking at a DLT2000 or 4000. >But then again, they won't write tapes that the tk70 in the MV3600 can >read... Good luck on the net boot. I gave that a try, and gave up once I got VMS. Of course I think part of my problem was corrupt tar files. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From go at ao.com Fri Jul 31 00:12:17 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199807310514.WAA26115@office.ao.com> At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: I was in Tokyo recently and saw a store selling the (Sony) cartridges (about the size of a quarter) for about 1600 yen (around $14 at the time.) I almost picked one up for the "cute" factor. They were also selling "audio" player/recorders that used this cartridge - no Pereos drives, though. Alas, I don't remember the store, but it was one of the seven-floor monsters in central Akihabara. Gary .. snip > >Last but not least, a Datasonix Pereos tape drive. It's a little unit not >much bigger than a microcassette that is supposed to be able to back up a >GB on a single cartridge. Unfortunately, I got no tapes with it, and the >only source I've found so far (www.datasonix.com) is pretty pricey >considering I don't know if it works. Anyone know of a cheaper source for >these tapes? > >Thanks! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 31 01:18:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? In-Reply-To: <199807310328.XAA06578@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > O.K. I've NEVER seen a 1400 with an 8088, though. does anyone have one? It's probably not rare, and not worth any more than what you paid for it. I hope this answers your question. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 31 01:12:14 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <35C0B9A6.8A4647FA@polygon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980730231214.0372a930@agora.rdrop.com> At 01:21 PM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >So I've captured a few new machines - now all I have to do is figure out what to do with them. > >1. Fortune 32/16 - System, seperate SCSI tape drive, no HD. No software. Help! Hmmm... Software could be tough. 68000 based system, ran a custom version of UNIX. (I used to work on them) Fairly neat machine though. Good luck in your search! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 31 01:14:48 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? In-Reply-To: References: <000601bdbc07$eaaad8a0$8af2fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980730231448.0370d740@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:38 PM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > >> Does Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale have a web site? How about a phone# >> (the one that I have "...has been disconnecte.")? > >Yes, but you have to know how to spell weird :-) > http://www.weirdstuff.com > >Tell 'em one of the local weird collectors sent you. DANG! Wish this had come up about a week ago. I was in California and wanted to see "Weird Stuff", but when all I could track down was the 'disconnected' phone number, I gave up... (no real access to mail/web while I was traveling) DRAT and such... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 31 01:58:40 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Teasers In-Reply-To: <199807291631.QAA17148@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: I went back today to see if I could find the Terak. It's definitely not there -- according to the junk dealer, he just got in the display and keyboard. I did find the rest of the Toshiba T300, though. I also found another teaser. According to Rax-lore, there is an IBM 29 Card Punch in my future (I found the nameplate and some CDC cards in a TAB punch-card rack). -- Doug From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 31 02:16:12 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: ZX-81 custom chip - watizit? In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini, Jr." "ZX-81 custom chip - watizit?" (Jul 30, 21:54) References: <000301bdbc26$38fc9b60$8af2fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <9807310816.ZM27051@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 30, 21:54, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Subject: ZX-81 custom chip - watizit? > I just got a ZX-81 kit (unassembled). I didn't know this before, but the ZX > uses a custom 40-pin IC to perform certain I/O functions. Is this chip truly > "custom" or is it a relabeled Z80 support chip? No, it's a ULA (uncomitted logic array, a sort of early ASIC) made by Ferranti. The ULA replaces several TTL chips that were present in the ZX80. There were two or three revisions of these, and a similar idea was used in the Sinclair Spectrum. The BBC Micro also used Ferranti ULAs, one for the serial controller and one for the video controller. IIRC, the ZX and Spectrum ULAs are still available from CPC in Britain. A ULA consists of lots of simple logic gates laid out in a square array, but the basic design has no final metalisation layer - and hence no interconnections between the gates. A designer using a ULA would translate his circuit diagram into an interconnection diagram for the array, and hand that over to Ferranti, who would then produce the mask for the final stage of the manufacturing process. The end result is a bit like an FPGA, but with simopler building blocks. Apart from that, the relationhip between a ULA and an FPGA is bit like the relationship between a masked ROM and an EPROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 31 07:03:55 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 Message-ID: <199807310949.LAA03180@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Well I landed an amazing C64 software score, with boxed sets of Ultima I, > all the Zork series, Neuromancer, an editor assembler package, a koala pad, a > bunch of joysticks, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember. The boxes and > manuals are in almost _pristine_ condition! Didn't pay a dime... one of the > guys I work with was amazed that I liked this stuff and pulled it out of his > basement to give to me for a beer. Well, OK; I paid a beer. ;-) Ooooh expensive :) > Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these dead keys '5, 7, 9, > and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard controller, but I must > confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64 accepts key > presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know of a fix? Hmm if it is only about this keys, it cant be a dead line. But for C64 it is still about to throw the unit away - (I just hauled 12 C64 from a school today) they are $5 thingis. Or store it as spare part (and they are worth about USD 50 as replacement parts). I wouls sugest a rapair only if it is about a special unti of personal history/interest. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jul 31 05:20:00 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: m88k info Message-ID: >> I was at a computer junk store the other day and saw a long flat >> computer case/box; about 3 inches high, about 18 wide and 10 long. It >> was some sort of unix terminal/system/something, because it still had a >> label with the network host name etc on it. >> >> BUT- >> >> it said m88k on it! hmm, sounds like the exact size of an Xterminal that I have somewhere that uses an '88k CPU. Let me know if you grab it an get it working, from what I remember if it's the same as mine it needs boot images on the server off which it hangs in order to run - the ROMs only have enough info to boot the network system. If it is the same machine, it'll take standard 72 pin SIMMS and an IBM PC keyboard (with a PS/2 style connector). Memory's hazy, but I think it had a custom 15-pin connector at the back, but it threw out standard frequencies that could be used with a Sun workstation monitor... I did find some info on the web for the box, it's possible I have it at home - just give me a shout... As for things using '88k's, My old Tektronix XD88 Unix box also used one as it's main CPU. I think they're supposed to be a lot better chips than 68k's, just that they never really caught on - 68k's were too well established (and therefore a lot cheaper). cheers Jules > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Jul 31 07:34:13 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980731083413.0068e7b4@mail.wincom.net> At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one of >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD's >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at >Target for $8 on sale. > >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! > > I have constructed several sets of low cost storage racks by assembling rectangles of 2x4s, 4 per rack. The verticles are notched to a depth of 3/4" to take the ends of the horizontal 2x4s. The height of the notch should be a close fit on your particular 2x4s. If you can use full size sheets of 3/4" sheathing plywood, the length of the horizontal 2x4s should be 49 1/2" to allow for the depth of the notch, and eliminate problems fitting the shelves. Rectangles can be assembled with nails or wood screws, but I screw the shelves to the horizontal 2x4s for greater strength. Spacing of shelves is determined by the size of the stuff you want to store. I use three shelves per rack, which gives you 128 sq. ft. including the floor under the bottom shelf. While they haven't suffered an earthquake yet, they are supporting a lot of computers, movie projectors, and other stuff, and were very economical to build. Regards Charlie Fox From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 31 07:52:17 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: 026 card punch (was Re: Teasers) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 31, 98 01:58:40 am Message-ID: <199807311252.IAA18234@user2.infinet.com> Doug writes: > According to Rax-lore, there is an IBM 29 Card Punch in > my future (I found the nameplate and some CDC cards in a TAB punch-card > rack). > > -- Doug On the subject of 029 card punches, does anyone out there have maintenance manuals on the 026 card punch? The homeowner of the place where much of my collection currently is just rescued an 026 punch from work. It does not smoke when powered on, but it doesn't appear to feed cards from the hopper into the punch area properly, and when a card is assisted into the right place, it doesn't punch. Thanks for any tips, -ethan From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 31 10:13:26 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: ZX-81 custom chip - watizit? Message-ID: <199807311258.OAA17456@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I just got a ZX-81 kit (unassembled). I didn't know this before, but the ZX > uses a custom 40-pin IC to perform certain I/O functions. Is this chip truly > "custom" or is it a relabeled Z80 support chip? Yes, it is. Or better it is a semi cusom chip - like ASICs today. The Basic design is a standard compilation of TTL functions, only the last metal layer is custom. This was an early attempt by some chip manufacturers to cut design costs - only this last layer had to be designed for every customer. The technic was(is) called ULA Unassigned(?) Logic Array. And thats also the name used by ZX-fans for this Chip. The ULA replaces something like 15 or 20 standard TTL bugs from the ZX-80 design - the 81 is just a ZX-80 II :) Gruss H. P.S.: Don't assemble it ... I assembled 5 kits several years ago - and now I could cry for one :( -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 31 08:09:13 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199807311312.NAA13395@cyber2.servtech.com> At 10:31 30-07-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > >> So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in >> mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! > >Unfortunately, mine is all stored in big heaps, one unit stacked upon the >next. I have little things like laptops and cables and crap like that in >boxes to make them stackable. Big things like S-100 and PDP boxen are >stacked about 5 or 6 feet high with an unstackable terminal to cap it off. >Little things are crammed into whatever nooks and crannies are left over. >Things like ASR33's are always a problem. I had shelf space at one point >but it is now taken up by the all-in-one systems like the PETs and Lisa >and some terminals. Now all the shelf space is crammed. > >Its a nightmare. Amen brother! I'm STILL trying to get all the accumulation of 'stuff' moved out of our old house into the newer house. 21 years worth of 'stuff'. Two weekends ago, a work colleague and I spent 4 hours on that Saturday afternoon moving only *part* of my library. That work consisted of two full loads in my wife's Jeep Cherokee and our friend's Ford Ranger SUV. Books and old magazines are really heavy to move up two flights of stairs. I think we got maybe a third of the library moved. We were almost dead after that. Bev and I have been making small trips in the evenings after supper to take the antique radio collection and tools over to the house and we're making a little bit of headway at that. If we had originally hauled _everything_ over in one or two shots, stuff would be piled up in such a manner I could not ever sort and arrange it properly. I guess the lesson learned here for us is to consider what we keep and pass on to someone else stuff we really should not. Another lesson is _don't_ pack it in so danged tight that if we do have to move (or more regrettably, have to pickup after an earthquake or flood) that the moving task is nearly impossible to do. Also, I cannot find stuff that I _know_ I had put away in the pile. I can't believe all the crap I'm dragging out that I squirrelled away over the last two decades. A part of it is actually heading for the dumpster and most of you would certainly agree if you see it. > >I don't recommend this sort of storage arrangement. I don't know where >anything is and couldn't get at it anyway even if I did. But it allows me >to store the massive amounts of computer junk I have until I can find a >suitable space to do it justice. Agreed re: not recommended! I thought we could find a house with more space for my stuff but nothing that was an affordable price came up for us around here. The new place is just a little bit smaller, now I'm having to sort out stuff to sell, swap or otherwise get rid of. As I said before, some of the old computer stuff I need to divest will be mentioned to you folks first. > >What I recommend to Roger is to first, add an extra support to your >shelves, and make sure you are anchoring them properly with drywall >anchors (if you are mounting the shelves to drywall). Then, pack your >laptops and such inside boxes with some foam in between. That way, if >there is another episode, or an earthquake hits and the computers fall, at >least they will be moderately protected from damaging each other when they >hit the floor. You also might want to consider getting some netting to >prevent the boxes from falling in the first place (in an earthquake at >least). I imagine this would cost some bucks but maybe Target has a good >net material cheap in the garden section. Try Home Depot for ideas also. Good suggestions. The other msg in this thread mentioned chicken wire as a netting-type material too. Although we don't have a real earthquake problem in Western NY State we still do feel them once in a while. Tornados and blizzards are the natural problems we have to deal with more often. I do make sure my shelves are tied to a wall, rafters/floor joists above them or simply themselves together in a mutually supportive manner just in case. If a moderately Big One ever occurred out here, we would be in great trouble as the earth deep down is quite solid and even small local quakes would hurt us more. That Madrid Fault in the Midwest is being watched with a wary eye by some earthquake specialists at the Eathquake Center at the University of Buffalo. Jamestown is sitting on the same tectonic plate. We even feel a jiggle from 3.5 quakes that hit 400 or more miles away out east of here. I know what a 3.6 is as I sat in the dinning room of my best friend and her husband's house up in Orinda, California when one hit in August, '87 centered about 10 or 20 miles away. I really hope and pray that you folks on the Left Coast are not hurt by any nasty quakes that occur. Regards, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Jul 31 09:19:52 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <199807310239.AA24810@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 30, 98 10:39:25 pm Message-ID: <9807311319.AA24934@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/b81c723c/attachment.ksh From deker at digitaladdiction.com Fri Jul 31 08:23:01 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729150446.264f78d0@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > Wasn't that the same number of heads & cylinders as an ST-225? But that > You know you're mixing hobbies dangerously when you read something like this and your mind starts thinking of car engines..... rob "heads and cylinders" deker OBClassicCmp: Anybody knoe where I can get an Atari 2600 for parts? Obviously I would prefer a broken one as ripping up a working machine is just wrong. All I really need is a player1 Joystick port, and I haven't had any luck finding a 90-degree DB9 port... rob From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 08:57:06 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:37 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? Message-ID: <199807311407.KAA13676@charity.harvard.net> Yes, they have a website, the only thing it's good for really is directions to the store and a phone number. http://www.weirdstuff.com/ Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. [mailto:rcini@email.msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 6:17 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? > > > Does Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale have a web site? How > about a phone# > (the one that I have "...has been disconnecte.")? > > > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin/CW6 > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 08:55:22 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader Message-ID: <199807311407.KAA13683@charity.harvard.net> Here's more info on the PDP boot problem. Since my girlfriend knows more about it than I do, I'll let her explain :). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Joan Sarah Touzet [mailto:joant@Cadence.COM] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 9:27 AM > To: anthony.dellett@staples.com > Subject: Forward for your mailing list > > > Hi everyone! > > I'm sorry for my boyfriend's post lacking details on my PDP > setup; he's > not familiar with these systems, and was hoping there was a simple > answer (and a simple configuration!) for dead PDP-11/23s. > Unfortunately, no such thing ever exists... ;) (So I'm the QBus > person, and he's the S-100 bus person. You can imagine the fights we > have over dinner.) > > Anyway, all joking aside, this is a PDP-11/23 system. It's installed > in a Charles River Data Systems backplane & enclosure, which > contains 2 > 8" drives which I believe are double sided. (I'll open the case this > weekend to confirm, and to CLEAN!) The system has been stripped down > to only the essential modules: a KDF-11A (PDP-11/23 CPU with FPU > installed, M8186), an MXV-11 multifunction serial/32K memory card with > local refresh (M8047-CA), and a Charles River Data Systems > FC-202 drive > controller board. I currently have the backplane configured as such: > > M8186 > M8047 > FC202 > > With no documentation on the FC202, it's hard to know whether it is > trying to share an interrupt with the M8047, but I've been told it's a > dropin replacement for the MXV21, so I've placed it as such. FYI, the > backplane is quad high, with 8 rows of slots. > > I have been trying to boot RT-11SJ v5 from drive 0 using the RX02 > single and double density bootloaders, as well as the RX01 bootloader > on the off-chance that these are single-sided drives. One of two > things happens: > > 1) After RS/340, R7/1000, P the run light comes on, drive 0's busy > light comes on > (and it sounds like it seeks to Track 0) but the system hangs > there. In this > case, the RUN light stays lit until I send BREAK or front-panel > toggle from ENBL > to HLT. This happens in less than 1/2 a second. I don't hear > any additional > seeking from the drive. > > 2) After RS/340, R7/1000, P the run light comes on momentarily, > drive 0's busy > light comes on (and seeks to Track 0), the run light > extinguishes, and I'm > dumped to ODT somewhere around 1104. (The address can vary.) > This happens in > less than 1/2 a second. > > I am unconvinced that the drive is actually returning a media error > this quickly. I've also let the system sit in state 1 for the > approximate time I remember it took these systems to boot (30 > seconds? > It's been 18 years...) but no kumquat. > > I've also entered some of the diagnostic programs I've found in the > Microcomputer & Memories books I've got floating around (1981, 1982 > editions). Most of the tests pass. The ones that don't are > tests like > the "continuous stream of ASCII characters to the console prompt" and > the "press a key, create an interrupt, and halt the program" ones. > After trying multiple CPU and MXV11-CA modules, and still seeing the > same erroneous behavior, I'm beginning to suspect that those programs > don't quite work as indicated. I haven't gathered up the gumption to > bother debugging them by hand yet. > > Oh, and in case you're wondering, I have the CPU module jumpered to > power-on into ODT, and the MXV11-A module is pretty much at > the factory > defaults. Some of the MXV11-As that I have, have boot PROMs installed > in them, and so the PROM address jumpers may be different than those > listed as factory defaults, but everything else is "by the book." > > One final note -- this system and enclosure were working a few years > ago in an expanded configuration (with 3rd party memory add-on modules > I've since removed, as well as a bunch of Analog Devices-powered A/D > boards, and an RGB Peritek video board) so I'm pretty sure > that the bus > is configured for a /23 already, instead of for an LSI/2 or something. > > Any ideas? My current plans for the weekend involve taking the > enclosure apart and cleaning the drives within an inch of their lives, > then trying to boot again using the RX02 bootloaders. I'm starting to > run out of ideas. > > -Joan Touzet (go ahead and reply to the list, I can read it just fine > through the archives page :P ) > --- > - Joan Sarah Touzet | So grey is not the color I > expected - > - joant@cadence.com | On someone who's so often > touched by grace - > - joyce.eng.yale.edu/~joant| But always she's the spectre of > uncertainty - > - I still love OS/2. | I first endured, then faded, > then embraced... - > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4812 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/c62bad75/attachment.bin From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 09:05:24 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 Message-ID: <199807311407.KAA13694@charity.harvard.net> If you suspect it's a dead keyboard, I can prolly be talked into sending you one of my spares. > > Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these > dead keys '5, 7, 9, > >and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard > controller, but I must > >confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64 > accepts key > >presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know > of a fix? > > > From jsalzman at hersheys.com Fri Jul 31 09:15:26 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Atari Joystick Connector Message-ID: Digi-Key has them. Part number: A2096-ND Go to http://www.digikey.com and do a Part Search for the above part number. Just make sure the mount spacing between the connector back edge and the solder pins on the Atari port is the same as in the Digi-Key specs. Anything different could cost a lot more for a replacement connector with a non-standard mount spacing. The sample PDF page of the catalog entry is available online. Pictures and details of the part are available there. You need Acrobat reader to view the catalog page. Jeff Salzman >prefer a broken one as ripping up a working machine is just wrong. All I >really need is a player1 Joystick port, and I haven't had any luck finding >a 90-degree DB9 port... From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 09:22:35 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <199807311427.KAA21137@gate.usaor.net> That's what I figured. Not worth any more than I paid for it? Hmm... That makes it worth absolutely nothing :-). Oh well, guess I'll just use it as soon as I get the power supply fixed. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Rare Tandy 1400??? > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 2:18 AM > > It's probably not rare, and not worth any more than what you paid for it. > > I hope this answers your question. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/26/98] > From maynard at jmg.com Fri Jul 31 09:29:52 1998 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:05:24 EDT." <199807311407.KAA13694@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <199807311529.LAA05646@mr-gateway.internal.net> Tony: Thanks for the heads up. Based on what you said it looks like I can safely rule out a dead chip - maybe I can clean the key contacts and get the keyboard working again. Anthony: If I fail at the repair job I'll contact you ASAP! Jeff and everyone else, thanks for your answers and help! --jmg From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 09:30:31 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 Message-ID: <199807311510.LAA01649@gate.usaor.net> > > Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these dead keys '5, 7, 9, > > and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard controller, but I must > > confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64 accepts key > > presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know of a fix? How long was the C64 sitting in the basement? It could be that the key contacts are corroded. It happened to me once on a TRS-80. The key wouldn't type, but if I'd pound on it for a while, it would type, but then keep typing until I pounded it again. I took the keyboard apart, took the cap off of the key, and then cleaned the contacts with alcohol. It worked fine after that. It doesn't sound like it would be bad, since if something was dead, probably the whole top line wouldn't work - or at least more than 4 keys. GooD LucK, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 10:08:05 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Looking for S-100 Systems Message-ID: <199807311514.LAA22705@charity.harvard.net> Definately. I have seen you on the classicmp mailing list. Sorry about sounding like a bonehead with the PDP/11 boot problem. It's not my bag. Tony Dellett -- On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:48:56 Tim Shoppa wrote: >In article <6p2mi9$1jg$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> you write: >>I'm looking for a few old S-100 systems from my old high school days. >>Specifically: >> >>Cromemco S-100 systems (Z2 mostly) > >I have a Z2 and several Z3 systems, all located in Bethesda MD. >Interested? > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) (301-767-5917) > From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 10:16:49 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20/Tadny 1400 HD Message-ID: <199807311525.LAA05120@gate.usaor.net> Hi. I have two WANG WLTC laptops, two Tandy 1400HD's, and I used to have a Toshiba T3100/20 and a T1200. They all had the same type of HD connector. The Tandy's have 20MB ALPS drives, and the WANG's have 10MB JVC drives, and the Toshiba's had 20MB JVC drives. I have NEVER been able to find replacement drives with this same connector. It's a 26 pin connector. Even though I don't need them, I'd like to have a few spares. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 10:22:53 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: WANTED>>> Message-ID: <199807311525.LAA05137@gate.usaor.net> Hello. I am looking for a Tandy 2800HD Laptop. Just the plain 2800 with the EGA display. I am willing to trade either a 14" color EGA, 14" color VGA, or 14" color XGA monitor for it. The VGA and EGA monitors will come with a video board. The XGA works with the XGA/2 video adapter for a PS/2. I am also looking for old laptop cases - the big kind that a Tandy 1400 will fit in. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 PS>>If anyone wants to make me an offer for the monitors, I am willing to sell them for the right price. From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 10:28:58 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807311535.LAA07589@gate.usaor.net> Here's how I store my "stuff": I keep my collection in my basement, so I have made shelves out of cement blocks and 2x4's (like the outdoor flower displays at WalMart), and then I put 1/2" plywood on top of the 2x4's and screw it down with drywall screws. If you feel that you need extra strength, you can lay the 2x4's on edge, and then screw the plywood on. Yes, this method may be a bit heavy, but how often are you going to move them? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Charles E. Fox > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:34 AM > > At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one of > >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was there > >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > > >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the GRiD's > >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at > >Target for $8 on sale. > > > >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in > >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks! > > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 31 11:04:00 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <199807311535.LAA07589@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35C1EAEE.8BDA3F51@bbtel.com> In the case of the original inquiry, I think mother nature moves them for him, whether he wants them moved or not. Needs something for the San Fran climate... Jason Willgruber wrote: > Here's how I store my "stuff": I keep my collection in my basement, so I > have made shelves out of cement blocks and 2x4's (like the outdoor flower > displays at WalMart), and then I put 1/2" plywood on top of the 2x4's and > screw it down with drywall screws. > If you feel that you need extra strength, you can lay the 2x4's on edge, > and then screw the plywood on. Yes, this method may be a bit heavy, but > how often are you going to move them? > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > ---------- > > From: Charles E. Fox > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds > > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:34 AM > > > > At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > > >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one > of > > >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was > there > > >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > > > > >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the > GRiD's > > >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at > > >Target for $8 on sale. > > > > > >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep > in > > >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. > Thanks! > > > > > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 11:13:21 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807311617.MAA16677@gate.usaor.net> just cement the blocks together.... ---------- > From: Russ Blakeman > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 12:04 PM > > In the case of the original inquiry, I think mother nature moves them for him, > whether he wants them moved or not. Needs something for the San Fran climate... > > Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > Here's how I store my "stuff": I keep my collection in my basement, so I > > have made shelves out of cement blocks and 2x4's (like the outdoor flower > > displays at WalMart), and then I put 1/2" plywood on top of the 2x4's and > > screw it down with drywall screws. > > If you feel that you need extra strength, you can lay the 2x4's on edge, > > and then screw the plywood on. Yes, this method may be a bit heavy, but > > how often are you going to move them? > > -- > > -Jason > > (roblwill@usaor.net) > > ICQ#-1730318 > > > > ---------- > > > From: Charles E. Fox > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > > Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:34 AM > > > > > > At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some, > > > >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one > > of > > > >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was > > there > > > >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still... > > > > > > > >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the > > GRiD's > > > >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at > > > >Target for $8 on sale. > > > > > > > >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep > > in > > > >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 31 11:19:35 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <199807311312.NAA13395@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > case. If a moderately Big One ever occurred out here, we would be in great > trouble as the earth deep down is quite solid and even small local quakes > would hurt us more. That Madrid Fault in the Midwest is being watched with Actually, the more solid your local earth the better chances you have of coming away with little or no structural damage. Its the houses that are built on unsettled or sandy soil that suffer the worst damage in a big quake. > a wary eye by some earthquake specialists at the Eathquake Center at the > University of Buffalo. Jamestown is sitting on the same tectonic plate. We > even feel a jiggle from 3.5 quakes that hit 400 or more miles away out east > of here. I know what a 3.6 is as I sat in the dinning room of my best > friend and her husband's house up in Orinda, California when one hit in > August, '87 centered about 10 or 20 miles away. I really hope and pray that > you folks on the Left Coast are not hurt by any nasty quakes that occur. Ehh. You learn to live with them. They're not so bad. Some can actually be fun if you can maintain your senses when one starts to hit. I try to perform odd experiments like lying on the floorto feel the waves and stuff. Haven't been in a real one since the Landers quake in '93 or so. As Roger said, I'd rather have a really horrible earthquake every so many decades than a tornado or hurricane like clockwork every year. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 31 11:21:46 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Rob Deker wrote: > Anybody knoe where I can get an Atari 2600 for parts? Obviously I would > prefer a broken one as ripping up a working machine is just wrong. All I > really need is a player1 Joystick port, and I haven't had any luck finding > a 90-degree DB9 port... Try comp.sys.atari2600 (is that right?) or one of the other many classic video game newsgroups. Also, scan the online auctions. You can get good deals occasionally (if some nitwit doesn't bid the price up to some ridiculous level). Lastly, try your local thrift shops as they almost invariably have an old 2600 with some carts laying around. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 31 11:22:36 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Rob Deker wrote: > Anybody knoe where I can get an Atari 2600 for parts? Obviously I would > prefer a broken one as ripping up a working machine is just wrong. All I > really need is a player1 Joystick port, and I haven't had any luck finding > a 90-degree DB9 port... Forgot to mention, try www.atari2600.com as well. That will get you started on a search. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Jul 31 11:48:15 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980731092741.52d732fc@ricochet.net> At 10:12 PM 7/30/98 -0700, you wrote about Pereos Tapes: >I was in Tokyo recently and saw a store selling the (Sony) cartridges >(about the size of a quarter) for about 1600 yen (around $14 at the [...] >Alas, I don't remember the store, but it was one of the seven-floor >monsters in central Akihabara. Ah well, since it was only yesterday that I was finally sure I'd be able to go to Denver on holiday, Tokyo is a pipe dream for me... (like England, Southern Africa, etc. ) But, all is not lost. I found a guy who has a few; I'm getting 5 for $25 plus shipping. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 12:46:52 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Looking for S-100 Systems Message-ID: <199807311749.NAA11437@charity.harvard.net> Aw crud! I didn't mean to send this to the list :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 11:08 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Looking for S-100 Systems > > > Definately. I have seen you on the classicmp mailing list. Sorry about > sounding like a bonehead with the PDP/11 boot problem. It's > not my bag. > > Tony Dellett > -- > > On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:48:56 Tim Shoppa wrote: > >In article <6p2mi9$1jg$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> you write: > >>I'm looking for a few old S-100 systems from my old high > school days. > >>Specifically: > >> > >>Cromemco S-100 systems (Z2 mostly) > > > >I have a Z2 and several Z3 systems, all located in Bethesda MD. > >Interested? > > > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) (301-767-5917) > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:04:04 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <19980731180404.26543.qmail@hotmail.com> The experience I've had was in the apartment where I live, where it is best to make stuff as opposed to buying it because it is difficult to fit storebought things as efficiently. And it probably looks better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger? >> drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations. >> That gorilla rack will probably cost more. > >Um, not really. I built a nice 8' x 2' 4-shelf plywood rack and it ended >up costing me $80 in lumber and supplies, plus a night to hammer it all >together. I got twice the space a Gorilla rack would have given me but at >eight times the hassle. >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/26/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Jul 31 14:28:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <19980731180404.26543.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 31, 98 11:04:04 am Message-ID: <9807311828.AA01030@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/6400c255/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 31 13:55:08 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Ehh. You learn to live with them. They're not so bad. Some can actually > be fun if you can maintain your senses when one starts to hit. I try to > perform odd experiments like lying on the floorto feel the waves and > stuff. Haven't been in a real one since the Landers quake in '93 or so. > > As Roger said, I'd rather have a really horrible earthquake every so many > decades than a tornado or hurricane like clockwork every year. Probably their major 'virtue' is that you do not have to anticipate and stew for hours or days or weeks as is common with the more usual right coast calamities! 'Course, the aftershocks can rattle your nerves a bit :) - don From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Jul 31 14:44:14 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13376113183.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I just did it this way: Linux on PC, RT-11 on PDP-11/83's MFM disk, bare RL02, and kermit at both ends. 2.9BSD image on the PC. Kermit BSD image to RT11 harddisk. Make RT11 wite the image to the RL02. Reboot. Viola. 2.9BSD. Now, I just need the Q-bus MUX that's supported... All I've got is a few DLV11Js and a DHV11. I also have something called a DQZ11 (Or maybe DZQ11?) but no cable kit... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Jul 31 14:52:04 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <9807311319.AA24934@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13376114610.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Shelf holds 5 VWs...] Weren't those the cars thart could float? ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:14:25 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: #%&*! This compaq is cursed! (ot) Message-ID: <19980731201425.16016.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, this isn't even funny anymore. I replaced the keyboard, and the thing works fine. The problem is that the cable leading to the display was damaged, and the backlight ceased to work. So, I decided to bypass the cable (only one trace). This was fine, but I tried to solder the wire I was using directly to a pin of the surface-mounted ribbon cable connector (the output, that connects to the circuit board inside the display panel). Of course, i bridged four of the pins. I have no desoldering tools of any kind, but I doubt it would help much. The solder got into little crevices between the pins and onto the circuit board itself. I guess this board is non-essential, but is there any way I could un-bridge this stuff? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 31 15:19:04 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: FW: PDP boot problems Message-ID: <199807312019.QAA00727@charity.harvard.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: 'joant@cadence.com' [mailto:joant@Cadence.COM] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 2:11 PM > To: Dellett, Anthony > Subject: Re: PDP boot problems > > > Thus spake Allison: > > I have both S100 systems and PDP-11s so I can be a translator and > > relationship mediator...;) > > Thanks, Allison :) > > > MXV21??? do you mean RXV21? > > Yes, I do. My mistake. Tony called CRDS and confirmed that it's > supposed to be a drop-in replacement. > > > Also in PDP-11s interrupts are "shared", actually daisy chained via > > request grant on the backplane. if the cards are not in sequencial > > slots in the grant chain then things don't work. > > Will confirm this. What happens if the cards are placed as: > > M8186 MXV11 > RXV21 > > I'm guessing this won't work, but it was one of the alternate > orderings > I had been using. I can't remember well enough as to how the > backplane > was wired...though I do remember that if you're going to skip > slots, you > need to use teeny bus grant continuity cards :) (That's for > a later date.) > > > the tests work if... all them jumpers on the MXV11s are correct. > > Shoot. I was afraid of this. I'm going to have to rip all of the > jumpers out that are non-standard and start over again. > > > ODT runs without interrutps so it can only mean that the > > console addresses > > are real but the interrupts may be wrong. > > Verification of the interrupt jumpers showed them to be at the > correct addresses when I checked this morning, but I'll double-check > tonight (under a BRIGHT lamp with my VOM) and verify them. > > > Thost can contain one of four groups of software, DEC rom ODT > > and boots, > > Customer programs, DIAGnostics or CRD ODT/boot code. > > Right. I'm pretty sure that ONE of these cards as the correct loader > for the FC202, but I've lost track as to which is which. I'll pull > the PROMs for the time being, and will eventually read them in on > my PROM programmer to figure out what the hell they do. > > > The bus config is unlikely a problem, the MXV11 addessing for > > ram can be. > > Again, the config was set to Ram bank 0 last I checked on > this particular > card, but I can't be 100% sure. I'll check first thing when > I get home... > > Thanks for your help, Allison! I now know where to focus my efforts. > > -Joan > -- > - Joan Sarah Touzet | So grey is not the color I > expected - > - joant@cadence.com | On someone who's so often > touched by grace - > - joyce.eng.yale.edu/~joant| But always she's the spectre of > uncertainty - > - I still love OS/2. | I first endured, then faded, > then embraced... - > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/e4829c51/attachment.bin From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 31 15:29:51 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <199807312029.AA28585@world.std.com> < better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't < know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger? No. Plywood is laminated wood veneers and has a strength that exceeds solid boards of the same dimension. It also has the advantage of oriented grain for each layer and available with finished surfaces. A cheaper material is OSB, oriented strandboard the high strength upper class cousin of flake board. The idea of glued up (laminated) woods is quite old and has always been used where strength is a primary concern. It can be used to get grain and layers that have differing color as well. Very strong shelves can be made up using 1x3 stock and plywood combined with 2x4 or 2x6 uprights. The problem is good quality wood has gotten expensive. Allison From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Fri Jul 31 15:30:11 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199807312030.QAA26689@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, for the cost of postage. There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril. None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a handful of pushbutton switches on the front, as per my previous post. Power supplies are all internal; they each have an ordinary 120v line cord. The consensus seems to be that they need some associated equipment to do the dialing. Because of this, I have no idea if they work or not. They are each maybe 1' x 1' x 2", but not very heavy. (That size is an estimate from memory, and might be off by a bit). I doubt they are useful in any modern setup, but they might be regarded as classics. If nobody here wants them, they return to the dumpster from which they came. My apartment now has negative space available, if you know what I mean. Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with about half a dozen boards in it. This is a rack-mount beastie, and weighs like it, so it could be expensive to ship. Still, if you want it, or any of the boards from it, let me know. Like the modems, I have no way to test it, and no idea whether or not it works. But I'd be thrilled to get it out of the trunk of my car. :-) And maybe this is a good time to mention my "for trade" web page, containing a list of compu-junk that needs a good home. It is at this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/fortrade.html Cheers, Bill. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jul 31 15:50:52 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: #%&*! This compaq is cursed! (ot) In-Reply-To: <19980731201425.16016.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 31, 98 01:14:25 pm Message-ID: <199807312050.OAA18121@calico.litterbox.com> I would try a piece of cotton string. Heat the solder until the bridge is molten, then dip the cotton string in it. It will soak up the molten lead. Once you get most of the bridge soaked up, scrape between the pins with an exacto knife to be certain. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:00:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: #%&*! This compaq is cursed! (ot) Message-ID: <19980731210017.17716.qmail@hotmail.com> I tried scraping, I scraped so much that I scraped throuh to the white part of the PCB. It still conducts. I can't see any solder bridge, but plugging it in causes smoke to emanate from the cable. >I would try a piece of cotton string. Heat the solder until the bridge is >molten, then dip the cotton string in it. It will soak up the molten lead. > >Once you get most of the bridge soaked up, scrape between the pins with an >exacto knife to be certain. >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@calico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Jul 31 17:03:54 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199807312030.QAA26689@dgs.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Jul 31, 98 04:30:11 pm Message-ID: <9807312103.AA11030@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 821 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/4a07ebe3/attachment.ksh From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Jul 31 12:11:28 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: #%&*! This compaq is cursed! (ot) In-Reply-To: <19980731201425.16016.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807312048.QAA28760@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:14:25 PDT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Max Eskin" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: #%&*! This compaq is cursed! (ot) > OK, this isn't even funny anymore. I replaced the keyboard, and the > thing works fine. The problem is that the cable leading to the > display was damaged, and the backlight ceased to work. So, I decided > to bypass the cable (only one trace). This was fine, but I tried to > solder the wire I was using directly to a pin of the surface-mounted > ribbon cable connector (the output, that connects to the circuit > board inside the display panel). Of course, i bridged four of the > pins. I have no desoldering tools of any kind, but I doubt it would > help much. The solder got into little crevices between the pins and > onto the circuit board itself. I guess this board is non-essential, > but is there any way I could un-bridge this stuff? Looks like you have to find a electronic supplier to buy some high quality very narrow solder wick rosin braids. They come in little UFO scaucer shaped flexiable reels that snaps together to make stack of it. Cost? under $2 each usually. Don't bother Rat Shock. I've been done there before and have the shirt to show. Those soak up the molten solder like a rag sucking up water except that you heat both braid and the solder at same time. Exhausted braid is cut off and better idea to save those cuttings. They make EXCELLENT high current, strong bridge wires for repairing cracked wide or burnt off traces. Other options; Oh, I'm happy to get your notebook up and running if you could send yours at your shipping cost to me and I ship it repaired back at my expense and at no labour cost? Otherwise you could unload the cursed notebook to anyone for $20? Which I'm willing to pay. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 31 17:58:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher References: <199807312030.QAA26689@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <35C24C05.27FF84E7@bbtel.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be > at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, > for the cost of postage. > > There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril. > None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a handful > of pushbutton switches on the front, as per my previous post. > Power supplies are all internal; they each have an ordinary 120v > line cord. The consensus seems to be that they need some associated > equipment to do the dialing. Because of this, I have no idea if > they work or not. They are each maybe 1' x 1' x 2", but not very > heavy. (That size is an estimate from memory, and might be off by > a bit). > > I doubt they are useful in any modern setup, but they might be > regarded as classics. If nobody here wants them, they return to > the dumpster from which they came. My apartment now has negative > space available, if you know what I mean. have you tried thr Racal Vadic command set, and do they have to be AT command compatible? I have a box stashed out in the storage building with a bunch of old modems, 300/1200/2400 types and all externals. I'll have to dig fo them this weekend (along with the Commie stuff I was supposed to get last weekend) and see what there is and let you know. What exactly are you planing to do with the modems and what speed do you need? > Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with > about half a dozen boards in it. This is a rack-mount beastie, and > weighs like it, so it could be expensive to ship. Still, if you > want it, or any of the boards from it, let me know. Like the modems, > I have no way to test it, and no idea whether or not it works. But > I'd be thrilled to get it out of the trunk of my car. :-) Almost sounds like a multiplexer unit.....someone has a boat without an anchor out there. > And maybe this is a good time to mention my "for trade" web page, > containing a list of compu-junk that needs a good home. It is at > this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/fortrade.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 31 18:12:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <13376114610.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35C24F47.C03548F@bbtel.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [Shelf holds 5 VWs...] > > Weren't those the cars thart could float? > ------- No but the same brand, as well as others. I forget the brand that was a convertible out in the 50's and 60's but Volkswagen (Wolfsburg plant) made a "schwimwagen" (spelled something like that) that could float and run through the water. The beetle could stay afloat a little longer than most cars due to the body style but the ducts for heat would let the water through from the exhaust manifold heat exchangers anyway. And now back to the topic at hand.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From peacock at simconv.com Fri Jul 31 18:40:00 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C50D@mail.simconv.com> Bill Yakowenko wrote: > There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril. From rax at warbaby.com Fri Jul 31 19:53:16 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Help...? Message-ID: Anyone care to be a good samaritan? Delivered-To: cnewmark-com-i@steam.ionix.net Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:50:31 -0700 From: Lisa Galbreath To: listfoundation community Reply-To: Lisa Galbreath Subject: (community) Digital Historian / Wizard Needed Status: U (community) My grandfather has 20 years of his life's work stored on a 1982 Pitney Bowes Word Processor 6000 and the whole thing has gone kaput. It used those large double sided, double density diskettes (also copyright 1982). All I have is the reorder number on these diskettes: 169501. I need to get the stuff on paper someohow so I can scan it all into the new PC I'm getting him (unless it can be downloaded onto disk?). If you can tackle this one, the machine is yours. Lisa Galbreath, Corporate Services Manager CNET: The Computer Network 150 Chestnut Street, San Francisco, CA 94111 (415) 395-7805 x1277 fax: (415) 623-2458 -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 31 14:52:21 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: toshiba T3100/20 20mb RLL HDD In-Reply-To: from "Rob Deker" at Jul 31, 98 09:23:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/711d617c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 31 15:05:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: PDP Boot Loader In-Reply-To: <199807311407.KAA13683@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 31, 98 09:55:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/1f001406/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 31 15:07:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Dead keys on C64 In-Reply-To: <199807311529.LAA05646@mr-gateway.internal.net> from "J. Maynard Gelinas" at Jul 31, 98 11:29:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/91c85d6b/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jul 30 19:04:01 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <35C24F47.C03548F@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 31, 98 06:12:08 pm Message-ID: <199808010004.SAA19378@calico.litterbox.com> Okay at the risk of serious off topic... the schwimwagon was built for service in World War Two by VW. It had snorkels on the exhaust and on the air intake for both the carb and the fan (air cooled engine) and a propeller shaft off the main pully and through the bumper. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 31 19:38:06 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <199808010004.SAA19378@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <35C2636C.2ACADA23@bbtel.com> Exxxactly! I guess now we can all get back to computer topics, like how to install a terminal in a VW beetle or something Jim wrote: > Okay at the risk of serious off topic... the schwimwagon was built for service > in World War Two by VW. It had snorkels on the exhaust and on the air intake > for both the carb and the fan (air cooled engine) and a propeller shaft > off the main pully and through the bumper. > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 31 19:42:58 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: <13376113183.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: Message-ID: >I just did it this way: > >Linux on PC, RT-11 on PDP-11/83's MFM disk, bare RL02, and kermit at both >ends. >2.9BSD image on the PC. >Kermit BSD image to RT11 harddisk. >Make RT11 wite the image to the RL02. >Reboot. >Viola. 2.9BSD. Now, I just need the Q-bus MUX that's supported... >All I've got is a few DLV11Js and a DHV11. >I also have something called a DQZ11 (Or maybe DZQ11?) but no cable kit... It's much easier to have the Q-Bus RL02 controller in a MV2. Run VMS with CMUIP, on the VAX and FTP the image from the Linux box to the VAX. Then write the image to the RL02 pack. Of course like you've I've no cab kit. However, this doesn't solve the original problem of getting NetBSD onto a TK50 tape :^) BTW, what happened when you tried booting the 2.9BSD image? I tried booting it on my /73 and it came up, but the console went all wierd on me. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Jul 31 20:19:45 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody Message-ID: I just had to pass this on to the list. http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:20:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody Message-ID: <19980801022028.6425.qmail@hotmail.com> Hilarious! Who the hell is he? > >I just had to pass this on to the list. > >http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Jul 30 21:49:25 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <199808010249.TAA07335@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 521 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980731/caa5435d/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 31 22:16:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <199808010316.AA12609@world.std.com> < A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that < BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the < San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. < < Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring < some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not likely in the near future from what I've heard. Allison From desieh at southcom.com.au Thu Jul 30 22:22:34 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (desieh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <008301bdbc32$84922980$db173ccb@mrmac> -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17 Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > >< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that >< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the >< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. >< >< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring >< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon > >THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not >likely in the near future from what I've heard. > >Allison > Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are still controlled by pdp 11/43s..... *Desie* From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 22:50:14 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40sx Message-ID: <199808010353.XAA25884@gate.usaor.net> I don't know if this is worthy of being a Classic Computer, yet (it's 8 yrs old), but here it goes: I have a PS/2 L40 sx laptop. It has 2MB onboard RAM, and a 60 MB HD. I was wondering if anyone had any expansion RAM, or knew where I could get some for a low price. It has "planar sockets". They look like standard 72-pin SIMM sockets, but Non-parity won't work, parity won't work, and not even PS/2 RAM works in it. I guess it needs a special type of RAM that was made by IBM especially for this computer. ANY information is appreciated!!! ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Fri Jul 31 19:31:55 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: FW: Free PDP-11/45 in the UK In-Reply-To: <35C1E568.A1C3D157@surveying.salford.ac.uk> References: <35C1E568.A1C3D157@surveying.salford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <35c261b5.259974293@smtp.wa.jps.net> Found on Usenet. If anyone of our UK readers is interested, I'd suggest getting hold of the person before they turn it into a rabbit hutch. ;-) On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:40:24 +0100, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>From: stuart >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: Free, PDP11 cpu, UK >>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:40:24 +0100 >>Organization: university of salford >>Lines: 8 >>Message-ID: <35C1E568.A1C3D157@surveying.salford.ac.uk> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.construct-it.salford.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!uunet!in3.uu.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!peer.news.bb.u-net.net!u-net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!ananke.salford.ac.uk!not-for-mail >>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:2429 alt.sys.pdp11:288 >> >>Hi, >>I have a fully loaded PDP11/45 cpu, to give away, Manchester area, UK. >>No PSU, but blower units still in place. Make good restoration >>project, or rabbit hutch. >>Thanks. >>Stu >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Jul 31 19:16:00 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40sx In-Reply-To: <199808010353.XAA25884@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808010353.XAA30188@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:50:14 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Jason Willgruber" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: IBM PS/2 L40sx > X-To: > I don't know if this is worthy of being a Classic Computer, yet (it's 8 yrs > old), but here it goes: > > I have a PS/2 L40 sx laptop. It has 2MB onboard RAM, and a 60 MB HD. I > was wondering if anyone had any expansion RAM, or knew where I could get > some for a low price. It has "planar sockets". They look like standard > 72-pin SIMM sockets, but Non-parity won't work, parity won't work, and not > even PS/2 RAM works in it. I guess it needs a special type of RAM that was > made by IBM especially for this computer. > > ANY information is appreciated!!! > > ThAnX, Jason, Missed the boat completely, Go to the http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm and follow the links for that L40 memory hacking. It says: "Selfmade memory modules for L40, TP350 and TP710T." You can use the standard true parity 70ns or faster and have someone setup the jumper pads as shown or you have the required soldering skills and stuff to pull that off. I had to do that for my compaq 4/33i, nec 386/33i and ibm motherboard. Every one worked on those pair of generic true parity simms I had resetted the jumpers to proper settings as shown. That pair of simms I gotten was generic standard parity 70ns 4MB with incorrect jumper setup on them! Cost? under $50 new for two. Jason D. > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Jul 31 23:44:31 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40sx Message-ID: <199808010447.AAA02963@gate.usaor.net> > Jason, > > Missed the boat completely, Go to the > http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm > and follow the links for that L40 memory hacking. It says: > "Selfmade memory modules for L40, TP350 and TP710T." > You can use the standard true parity 70ns or faster and have someone > setup the jumper pads as shown or you have the required soldering > skills and stuff to pull that off. > > I had to do that for my compaq 4/33i, nec 386/33i and ibm > motherboard. Every one worked on those pair of generic true parity > simms I had resetted the jumpers to proper settings as shown. > > That pair of simms I gotten was generic standard parity 70ns 4MB with > incorrect jumper setup on them! Cost? under $50 new for two. > > Jason D. > THANK YOU!!!! I have a pile (well, 3) of 4MB parity SIMMS from a Gateway 2000 in my basement. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Jul 31 20:15:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Archive board Message-ID: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time they're useless. Someone had written 102 A in marker pen.The most important chip is one labelled Archive PT and at the bottom 8517A. It has an E-Prom m5l2764k , another 64 pin chip has 4 numbers , the top one is R6511AQ and the bottom one is 8439 (always had trouble identifying chips based on labelling). It has IRQ stencilled jumpers 2-7 and 5 is jumpered. It has DRQ (DMA ?) 1,2,3 , DACK 1,2,-3 with 1 jumpered on 1 and 3(1), another set of 7 jumpers labelled A3-A9. There are 5 LEDs labelled DS1-DS9. There's a couple of other jumpers and the rest is mostly low powered Schotskys. Anyone with any idea on what this is ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Jul 31 20:26:43 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Archive board Message-ID: <199808020530.BAA11218@smtp.interlog.com> Not sure if this got thru. If it repeats my apologies. A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time they're useless. Someone had written 102 A in marker pen.The most important chip is one labelled Archive PT and at the bottom 8517A. It has an E-Prom m5l2764k , another 64 pin chip has 4 numbers , the top one is R6511AQ and the bottom one is 8439 (always had trouble identifying chips based on labelling). It has IRQ stencilled jumpers 2-7 and 5 is jumpered. It has DRQ (DMA ?) 1,2,3 , DACK 1,2,-3 with 1 jumpered on 1 and 3(1), another set of 7 jumpers labelled A3-A9. There are 5 LEDs labelled DS1-DS9. There's a couple of other jumpers and the rest is mostly low powered Schotskys. Anyone with any idea on what this is ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com