From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 1 00:22:22 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:34:58 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche Message-ID: OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). What on earth is this stuff? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 1 01:13:38 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:34:59 2005 Subject: Gone! I'm gone! (Temporarily) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980630231338.00e69400@mail.wa.jps.net> Oh, I'll be back. I'm simply going to unsubscribe until I get back from my annual scrounging trip to the Bay Area. Given that I've seen as many as 60+ messages/day, and I'll be gone for (effectively) ten days, I would prefer not to come home to 600+ messages! Have a fun and safe Fourth of July! I shall return!! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 01:17:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:00 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info Message-ID: <3599D467.62532680@bbtel.com> Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket PC Ref -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 02:36:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Win NT 3.5 Workstation FS/Trade Message-ID: <3599E6E0.E5CFB37A@bbtel.com> I have a full copy of Windows NT workstation 3.5 that was opened but never used to get out of my way. Any offers, cash or trades? I'm sure someone in this list has a need for it. More info email me direct please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 02:28:58 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Re[2]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin" (Jul 1, 0:41) References: Message-ID: <9807010828.ZM22293@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 1, 0:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin > > optional. You'd also need to allow the T-11 processor. > > Isn't the T11 a single chip? The one in my York Box certainly seems to be > a simple 40 pin plastic DIL package. Exactly! :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 02:47:09 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "DEC/X11 Fiche" (Jun 30, 22:22) References: Message-ID: <9807010847.ZM22314@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jun 30, 22:22, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche > OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche > today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of > DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling > it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I > would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). > What on earth is this stuff? It's the stuff I've been looking for for ages :-) If it's an inch thick, you only have a small part of it. But it is the listings of (some of) the XXDP diagnostics. It's common to refer to these so you can see what the setup options etc are for the various diagnostics. IIRC, a complete PDP-11 set took up most of a microfiche file box. Wasn't this stuff also on-line at Digital once upon a time? Names like STARS and TIMA come to mind too (my spelling might be wildly wrong, of course). What happened to all that information? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 1 08:15:13 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In Message-ID: <199807011102.NAA27257@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:33:09 PDT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Max Eskin" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM' >> [About first Computers/Zuses] >>Big ? Hmm. The Z1 could be described as a desktop computer, >>since Zuse (and his friends) bulid it on his parents kitchen >>table - but it tool up the whole table. > More questions, then: > What did they do? I guess they couldn't have been that powerful if the > ENIAC took up a whole building... The Z1 for shure, but compared to the ENIAC, the Z3 had a comprehensive calculating speed. One problem is the different technologie used - ENIAC used a 10 digit fixed point decimal system, while Zuse already used binary floating point like todays computers. The ENIAC could do 14 fixed point multiplication per second, while the Z3 did (only) 0.3 floating point. Its the old thing of big money vs. no money - or government fund projects vs. private - for the ENIAC, upenn had (almost) unlimited government money, while Zuse didn't get any singe cent - so he had to use junk telephone relais instead of new one, and this also is the reason why he used a relais system istrad of tubes - he just couldn't aford it - It's the same in all ages - if you don't have to count every transistor, byte, megabyte (M$) you'll use everything available. (The ENIAC-on-a-chip project also took 174,569 transistors to rebuild the function :) Zuse: >After the War was finally over, news of the University of Pennsylvania ENIAC machine went all round the world - "18,000 tubes!". We could only shake our heads. What on earth were all the tubes for? Schreyer and I parted company after the War. At that time it was prohibited to develop electronic equipment in West Germany.< They had plans for a 2000 tubes computer around 1937, but didn't get the money, since the authorities belived that the war wouldn't need it, because the planned two year development would be to late ... Helmut Schreyer had build a small experimental machine for calculating 10 Digit numbers with something around 100 tubes, running in 1944. Not a complete comuter - more like a calculator. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 06:21:23 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche Message-ID: <199807011121.AA13691@world.std.com> Diagnositic programs for the pdp-11. If you have no use, I wouldn't mind them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 06:27:10 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche References: Message-ID: <199807011127.AA15738@world.std.com> >IIRC, a complete PDP-11 set took up most of a microfiche file box. >Wasn't this stuff also on-line at Digital once upon a time? Names like >STARS and TIMA come to mind too (my spelling might be wildly wrong, of >course). What happened to all that information? You're right... it did take up a full box... As for Stars and TIMA, they're both around, and they still have some pdp-11 related information, but they seem to have been purged of much of it (One Architecture, One System, you know...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 1 07:45:31 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was In-Reply-To: <199807010151.AA28230@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jun 30, 98 09:51:51 pm Message-ID: <199807011245.IAA06530@shell.monmouth.com> > > Yes, the DCT11 (t-11) is a single chip... it has no memory management > (except for a strange implementation on one of the vax line... Venus, > I think...) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > The 11/790, er 11/860, er 8600/8650. I ran RT11 games on the RL02 front end at times. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 1 07:40:06 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden In-Reply-To: <01bda35d$058db160$3128a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> I used driver.sys. It worked for me. Joe At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? >manney@lrbcg.com > >> >>720K drives will work fine on the original drive controller AFTER you load >>the driver file. I've done it dozens of times to connect my NEC >>Multi-Speed drives to the PC. The only problem is that you can't boot from >>them since the driver has to be loaded for them to work. I don't *think* >>the 1.44 Mb drives will work on the controller though. >> >> Joe >> >>At 01:24 AM 6/27/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>> The 3.5" drive requires a special controller card that I find rare. Snag >>it! >>> >>>My IBM XT is looking worried. It's been running fine for years with the >>>original IBM controller linked to 2 360K drives and 2 720K 3.5" drives. >>>And you're telling it it shouldn't work? >>> >>>720K 3.5" drives work fine on the original IBM controller using a >>>suitable cable and not other mods. I believe drive A: should be a 360K >>>drive, but apart from that there's no real problem. >>> >>>-tony >>> >>> >> > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 11:26:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden References: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <359A634F.1A092CF2@bbtel.com> Joe wrote: > I used driver.sys. It worked for me. > > Joe > > At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? Occasionally you need to add (or just use) the DRIVPARM= command in the Config.Sys, either by itself or with DRIVER.SYS. I reworked an Epson that wouldn't recognize the 1.44m floppy but it had a hi density controller. I guess the parameters for the drive weren't int he older BIOS. The addition of the DRIVPARM command fixed it fine. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Jul 1 11:37:18 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: 720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to iden References: <3.0.1.16.19980701074006.483729c8@intellistar.net> <359A634F.1A092CF2@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <359A65BE.B844ED1A@halcyon.com> Yes, DRIVPARM does it for me on an old PC/XT where I have a 720KB drive. In fact, it's a 5.25-inch 720KB drive. Works great with Teledisk for transporting RX50 floppies to uPDP-11s and Rainbows. Dave Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > > I used driver.sys. It worked for me. > > > > Joe > > > > At 08:54 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Driver file? What driver file? You mean that's been my problem? > > Occasionally you need to add (or just use) the DRIVPARM= command in the > Config.Sys, either by itself or with DRIVER.SYS. I reworked an Epson that > wouldn't recognize the 1.44m floppy but it had a hi density controller. I guess > the parameters for the drive weren't int he older BIOS. The addition of the > DRIVPARM command fixed it fine. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 1 12:41:56 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M Message-ID: <9806018993.AA899340235@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 30, 18:04, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >> > Other people insist a microprocessor is one chip only. >> >> So I notice. But by that definition _none_ of the micro PDPs were true >> microprocessors, or at least none up until the 73. The Micro J-11 >> processor in the 73 was implemented as two chips on a large ceramic >> carrier. Was this also the case with later J-11s? > > Yes, it is. But if you allow a J-11 as a microprocessor, you must also > allow the F-11 (as in 11/23, 11/24) since it too has the complete CPU on > one (40-pin) carrier. The other devices that make up the chipset are truly > optional. You'd also need to allow the T-11 processor. I must admit I'd not met the T-11. I stand corrected. As for the F-11, hadn't I just agreed with Tony that a chipset like the F-11 was a microprocessor? Philip. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 1 12:35:00 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M In-Reply-To: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk "Re[4]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was M" (Jul 1, 17:41) References: <9806018993.AA899340235@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <9807011835.ZM22637@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 1, 17:41, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > As for the F-11, hadn't I just agreed with Tony that a chipset like the > F-11 was a microprocessor? Sorry, having rapidly skimmed a boxful of emails, i thought you were saying something *slightly* different :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From wanderer at bos.nl Wed Jul 1 15:13:30 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: RL02 ID number button Message-ID: <359A986A.1AE4@bos.nl> >The encoding scheme is quite simple, actually, and the answer is that >you >can't make a 2 or a 3 from a 1 or a 0 > >The explanation is as follows. There are 2 pegs at the sides of the >lamp >cap, each with 2 edges (top and bottom). Each edge is either cut down >or not. > >An edge which isn't cut down closes a contact in the lampholder (there >are 4 such contacts, of course). An edge which is cut down doesn't. > >One edge is always present (not cut down). This contact tells the drive >that there is a cap fitted. > >The other 3 edges set the drive ID. One isn't used (it is on the RK07, >etc). The other 2 form a binary code, with the contact closed = 1. So >you >can change a '1' bit into a '0' bit by filing down the appropriate >edge. >But you can't change a '0' into a '1'. And the latter is what you'd >need >to do to make a 2 or a 3. Just unloaded the 11/24 from the car and did take the number plugs out. If the only problem is the edge, then applying a drop of 2 component epoxy glue and file the excess away after hardening should then do the trick, would is not? Edward -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 1 14:59:23 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info In-Reply-To: <3599D467.62532680@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a > Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. > > I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket > PC Ref Pages 330/331 of the 6th edition. Not really worth much as it is only a 43mb drive. Parameters are: hds 5 cyl 989 spt 17 rwc 990 wpc 128 seek 28 intfc ST-506/ST-412 Not ESDI, as you can see. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 1 12:34:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was In-Reply-To: <199807010315.AA22638@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jun 30, 98 11:15:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/1cf22f23/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Wed Jul 1 16:28:51 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: XEROX 860 IPS References: <359589F6.187F@gamewood.net> Message-ID: <359AAA13.1051@gamewood.net> Charles A. Davis wrote: > > Hi Folks: > > I was donated a XEROX 860 IPS. Portrait oriented Hi-Res display, 2 8" > floppies. Keyboard with a circular 'touch pad' on the right end (of the > keyboard) > > The Problem? I was just getting to the point of trying to 'backup' the > software (disks), and look around in the system, and the 12v portion of > the power supply died. No 12v, no boot. > > Anyone have any schematics for the power supply? > The silence has been deafining!!!!. Well, let's make the queestion a bit broader --- I.E. Anybody know ANYTHING about the '860 IPS'. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 17:35:45 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 References: Message-ID: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a 286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either 1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and hangs. does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! -Eric From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 17:47:06 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 In-Reply-To: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Poesie wrote: > I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a > 286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. Yes, gas plasma, a 286 and 20MB disk. > problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either > 1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and > hangs. > > does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that > is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice > would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! Your CMOS battery is probably dead. When it tells you that have a CMOS problem, it should give you the option to change the CMOS values. You can also try booting from a DOS floppy. You should be able to find diagnostics and setup disks from Toshiba's web site: www.toshiba.com. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 1 16:49:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: RL02 ID number button In-Reply-To: <359A986A.1AE4@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Jul 1, 98 08:13:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1177 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/2e163981/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 18:07:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: Respond directly to the seller, not to me, if you want his Lisa 2. If it turns out to be a Lisa 1, don't tell me about it :-) -- Doug ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:27:07 +0000 From: Rich Bull Subject: LISA Mine has a 5 or 10 meg hard drive....Its a completed system with mouse and keyboard and is in exceptional condition...neat little machine...If your interested I need $200.00 and you pay shipping... Thanks rbull@mail.smu.edu Richard E. Bull email: rbull@mail.smu.edu Information Technology Services voice: (214)768-3450 Southern Methodist University Fax: (214)768-9999 Dallas, Texas 75275-0262 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 18:13:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? >Respond directly to the seller, not to me, if you want his Lisa 2. If it >turns out to be a Lisa 1, don't tell me about it :-) > >-- Doug >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:27:07 +0000 >From: Rich Bull >Subject: LISA > >Mine has a 5 or 10 meg hard drive....Its a completed system with mouse and >keyboard and is in exceptional condition...neat little machine...If your >interested I need $200.00 and you pay shipping... > >Thanks >rbull@mail.smu.edu > >Richard E. Bull email: rbull@mail.smu.edu >Information Technology Services voice: (214)768-3450 >Southern Methodist University Fax: (214)768-9999 >Dallas, Texas 75275-0262 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 18:24:10 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? You're asking if somebody is willing to pay the asking price for a machine which has just been announced as available to this list? If the answer is yes, the machine will be gone. If the answer is no, it will still be available to you. FWIW, a Lisa 2 went for $1500 on eBay not too long ago (probably to somebody who didn't know the difference). -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Jul 1 18:38:28 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 1, 98 04:13:12 pm Message-ID: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/11dea4b5/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jul 1 18:35:59 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100/20 In-Reply-To: <359AB9C1.213B@geocities.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980701183559.006a64a0@pop3.concentric.net> one of two ways will get you in 1) hold down the Fn key and turn the unit on or 2) hold down the Esc key and turn the unit on. Good luck John At 05:35 PM 7/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just picked up a toshiba T3100/20, gas plasma? display, looks like a >286 or something to that effect. has a 20? MB hard drive, floppy, modem. >problem is this: when booting, it checks the 640k of ram and then either >1.) says there are various CMOS problems, or b.) just sits there and >hangs. > > does anyone know how I would go about getting into the bios, or if that >is even possible? tried pretty much everything; no luck. any advice >would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!! > >-Eric > > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 1 19:22:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Misc. DEC Boards Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E95B@mail.simconv.com> While checking some boxes in the computer room, I found these old spare DEC Q-Bus parts. They actually belong to the company but if you are willing to pay shipping plus trade something (cash is ok too) I can let them go. AFAIK all boards were pulled from working systems several years ago. Contact me at peacock@simconv.com MicroVAX I board set and cabinet kit (serial console connector) 4MB third party Q-BUS memory card, no RAMs (takes 256K DIPs), works great w/uVAX I CPU (you need VMS 5.0 for this, 5.1 and later not supported) ------------------- 11/23 CPU board and cabinet kit (2) DEC memory boards (I think 256KB and 128KB, not sure) both memory boards were with the 11/23 ------------------- MicroVAX 3500 CPU (KA650) board, no cabinet kit (might have it, not sure) (2) 8MB memory boards for the KA650 (this CPU has the older boot ROM, no SHOW command) -------------------- KDA50 disk controller 2 board set (was with the 3500) -------------------- RL02 Q-Bus disk controllers (2) I think RLV21s, have to look -------------------- 12MB expansion memory for a VAXStation 2000 -------------------- (6) DEPCA ethernet boards for ISA bus, old ones w/48KB buffers (all modified for Pathworks drivers) If you have stuff to trade, I could use any of the following: TK50 drive w/SCSI interface (TZ30 or TK50-G) internal preferred 16MB 72pin SIMMs (x32 or x36, EDO or FPM) IDE or SCSI disk drives 1GB or bigger 4mm or 8mm tape drives a flatbed scanner that works with Win95 a Q-BUS IDE or SCSI disk controller useful S-100 boards (tell me what you got) Atmel 89C2051 ucontrollers a monitor that works with the GPX board set in a uVAX II Cyrix 686 or Pentium 166 CPU chip (working on a flaky Motherboard) 33.6 modem ISA card that works with NT4 memory for an Alpha 500au or if you have something else to trade, let me know, make an offer. not interested in consumer computer stuff (i.e. apple, IBM PC, amiga etc.) Jack Peacock From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 1 19:12:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would > go after myself. So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd turn it down? Whenever I see a system I want, I go through several rationalization exercises. The first is "new systems cost much more and are much less interesting." If that doesn't work, there's always "I haven't bought a new car in a while, so I'll get this instead." Then there's "if I value my time at $X/hour, and it would take me more than Y hours to find this thing on my own, then it's worth at least $X*Y to buy it from this guy." For small stuff, I have a simple metric: sheer frivolous entertainment is worth about $3/hour to me (e.g., movies: $6, magazine: $3, a good book: $12, etc.), so if I can gain at least $X/3 hours of enjoyment from the object, that's a buy signal. -- Doug From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 1 17:13:28 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Never pass an $8 computer [Apple IIc swapmeet story] Message-ID: <199807020149.RAA17062@next.ireadyco.com> Hi, So I bought two Apple IIcs last year, one from at the Capitola Swap Meet for $8 with no power supply and a bad keyboard and the other at a ham radio swap meet for $15 with the cute little monitor, stand, power supply, TV adapter, printer and a bunch of other junk [Printshop and... what a thrill- typing tutor!] I bought the two machines some time apart from each other and was moving about the time I picked up the second. So finally today I found that the first one work while the complete system I bought is broken. Well... it's no problem since I can make one working model out of two. Fortunately the first one also has a case with no yellowing problem. The moral of the story: Never pass up a $8 retro-computer... even if it's broken and incomplete! Thomas From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Jul 1 20:09:29 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) References: <199807012338.QAA16361@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <359ADDC9.3256F2BC@exit109.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > > > > > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? > > Personally? Maybe. This is really a 'Per-Collector' question, I suppose. > I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would > go after myself. For this particular machine, I'd have to say $200 is > a little high, but might be worth it considering what some others have > gone for. > > As for the >$1000 E-bay Lisa, I'd just have to say "No way, no how, > nuh-uh." That is far, far too much money. I have to admit that I noticed the $1000 eBay Lisa and the two $300 Osborne 1's and it did get me wondering... Personally, I'd never pay it; I have enough trouble rationalizing $1000 for a new Pentium or PowerPC. As for that much for a "collectible", it's the same reason I still don't have a Mac Portable... I won't pay what people seem to think is the going rate (> $200 for a 1MB 68000-based system). OTOH, I already own both a Lisa 2 and an O-1. The former cost me about $100, spent $20 at a time to piece it together, and includes 1MB of RAM, docs, and the Sun Remarketing SCSI board. The O-1 is a later model (same as the one on eBay) and cost me $30, including Osborne modem, DD upgrade, and 80-column upgrade. Both are currently sitting in storage because I have no room to keep them set up nor time to use them. There are days when I wonder if I would not be better off auctioning them off, taking the money and running. Better yet, just go on the 'net and offer an even swap of the Lisa for a G3 PowerMac... at least I might find time to use the PowerMac. The eternal conundrum... <<>> From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Jul 1 20:20:29 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: QuantumLink AOL lore... References: <199806300702.AAA20804@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359AE05D.A104B13F@goldrush.com> Actually... Quantum Computer Services started off Quantum Link from the old Commodore 64 Play-Net network and later developed Apple and PC link as those developed (from the old Q-Link system) Quantum Computers changed their name to AOL and later shut down the Commodore Q-Link service after leting it suffer a slow-agonizing demise for a few years. Pitty, it was a good service. There are still a bunch of Q-Link ideosyncracies in the system such as 10 character screen names. There is a web page out there that gives the whole story, I came across it a while back in my surfing. Hopefully Doug Coward will read this and fill us in better, as he was an actual Q-Link employee for many years (read he actually worked there, not a Q-Guide or some sub-op position). -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Jul 1 20:45:48 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 1, 98 07:12:42 pm Message-ID: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980701/d755b24a/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 21:20:08 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Message-ID: <199807020220.AA01022@world.std.com> I agree a very fancy data path/alu chip. Message-ID: <359AF24A.5F06A6BD@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Need drive parameters for an ESDI drive for someone, he says it's a > > Magnetic Peripherals model 94205-051. > > > > I've looked most places and can'r seem to locate it, even in my Pocket > > PC Ref > > Pages 330/331 of the 6th edition. Not really worth much as it is only a > 43mb drive. Parameters are: Now I know why I'm going for an eye exam. I have the sixth and must have overlooked it as it's not good enough to get the pages stuck together ;-) Thanks much -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rax at warbaby.com Wed Jul 1 22:49:45 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: History Timeline Message-ID: Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet history timeline is now converted to HTML and I've put it up on my web site. I'd really appreciate your criticisms, corrections and suggestions. Gotta warn you, though, it's a pretty big file so you prolly shouldn't try to access it with those 1200 baud modems. It's also big in dimension - you'll need a 20" monitor to view the whole table without side-scrolling. http://www.warbaby.com/FG_test/Timeline.html Before y'all get too harsh with your crits, please bear in mind that it's a first draft. I've got more info to fill in, formatting to diddle with, and text to rewrite and edit. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Jul 1 22:20:01 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: History Timeline Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980701231947.006be4c0@netpath.net> At 07:49 PM 7/1/98 -0800, Rax wrote: >Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet And thanks for the equally noble effort at spelling my last name. It's Higginbotham. :) Good work on the timeline. Hope to see it develop more in the future. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From rexstout at uswest.net Wed Jul 1 22:33:31 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: Saved a Compaq Portable(w/5.25" FD and unknown 5.25" FH HD) from a dumpster... AFTER a 10 foot flight into it! Plugged it in and it still works... Needs some repairs, I can hear stuff rattling around inside, but it does work... Booted from the hard drive with Compaq DOS 3.31. Also got a MasterSport 386SL(386SX-20, 4MB RAM, 63MB HD) and a 486 motherboard(gonna set it up with Linux or something). Also getting a 1970 VW Bug for my birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one to replace the broken plastic one). -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 1 22:55:16 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help Message-ID: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 1 23:16:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <359B09A7.5CFDD645@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. I have a microchannel card for a PS/2 that's supposedly the controller card for a HP scanner. It has the 25 pin d-sub connector on it. Didn't you say you had a microchannel model PS/2?? You're welcome to this card if you think it will work for you. Drop me a direct email if so. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 1 23:19:52 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Allison, from an earlier Usenet post: > I have a Hewlett Packard Scanjet Plus without any docs, etc.. I was able > to get very little info from the "hp" ftp site on this unit. It has what > looks like a standard parallel port 36-pin connector on it, but from what > I can tell, it is a "special" interface - NOT SCSI. I guess hp carries It's a custom duplex centronics interface, developed by HP, and used (in slightly different versions) only on the 9190A ScanJet and 9195A ScanJet Plus. The ScanJet version was product number 88290A, which presumably works only on the 9190A. The Plus card was 88295A or 88296A, and reportedly works on both. They were developed years before ECP/EPP/IEEE-1284, so a normal PC parallel port is no substitute. The later ScanJets (IIc, IIcx, 2p, 3p) have a McSCSI interface. - don From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:35:31 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <359B0E13.3E32@geocities.com> yeah, the HP scanjets all(?) come with their own scsi interface card, that has basically a DB-25 plug that connects to the scanner. however, if you have any 50pin centronics to scsi, you can use that just fine too; more or less, HP distributed the interface card because most PC owners don't tend to have SCSI :) PS. I have some cards & HP deskscan software from a couple units i picked up, email if interested. yadda, yadda, yadda... Allison J Parent wrote: > > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. > > Allison From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:42:09 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:02 2005 Subject: find... help References: Message-ID: <359B0FA1.5798@geocities.com> Whoops. my bad. Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: <---snip---> They were developed years before > ECP/EPP/IEEE-1284, so a normal PC parallel port is no substitute. The > later ScanJets (IIc, IIcx, 2p, 3p) have a McSCSI interface. > > > - don From samuels at telcel.net.ve Wed Jul 1 23:41:29 1998 From: samuels at telcel.net.ve (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Samuel_Sosa_Rodr=EDguez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: On Epson Px-8 Geneva Message-ID: <000501bda573$aefed400$8dc388d0@samuel> Dear friend, Please i need of your help, in this moment i am using a Epson PX-8 Geneva, i need use the micro-cassette drive in the CP/M and the BASIC resident, you can help me, please send me command (CP/M and Basic) for this micro-cassette drive and more usefull command of CP/P (I only use Windows and DOS), all information on this great machine what you can send me, Tank you very Much for you great Help. From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 1 23:53:11 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: zeos laptops... Message-ID: <359B1237.4B03@geocities.com> ok... this isn't classic, but does anyone have a line on zeos laptop parts for ~486 and up? have some strange little units that are lacking unique parts. thanks.. -Eric From rexstout at uswest.net Wed Jul 1 23:52:49 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: On Epson Px-8 Geneva In-Reply-To: <000501bda573$aefed400$8dc388d0@samuel> Message-ID: >Please i need of your help, in this moment i am using a Epson PX-8 Geneva, i >need use the micro-cassette drive in the CP/M and the BASIC resident, you >can help me, please send me command (CP/M and Basic) for this micro-cassette >drive and more usefull command of CP/P (I only use Windows and DOS), all >information on this great machine what you can send me, The tape drive can be accessed via the function keys at the top of the keyboard, but I don't remember exactly how. I haven't played with my PX-8 in a while. But it can be kinda tricky to use(not just the tape drive, the entire computer. I just can't get used to that little display...). -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jul 1 23:54:26 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com's message of Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:55:16 -0400 References: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807020454.VAA17569@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. This is the original HP ScanJet. > I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is > an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like > parallel printer cable. Any info may help. Yes, it needs an additional interface that looks a lot like a duplex parallel interface but is not like today's enhanced PC parallel port. Bob Niland has a canned FAQ that he posts to comp.sys.hp.hardware whenever this question comes up there. If you can webulate, you can find it pretty easily in DejaNews. Be advised that the gist of said FAQ is "forget it, if it breaks it'll need expensive fixing and is probably not worth your trouble." -Frank McConnell From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 2 00:12:01 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19980701231313.3122.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > OK, now so I know how much these things are worth besides how much the > buyer wants to pay for it, would you people pay this much? The real question is, how much is it worth to you? It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Jul 2 00:34:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, John Rollins wrote: > birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt > clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one > to replace the broken plastic one). Don't feel bad. It could be worse. Take for example the fact that my laptop hard drive physically crashed thanks to Windows 98. Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From rax at warbaby.com Thu Jul 2 03:47:07 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: History Timeline In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980701231947.006be4c0@netpath.net> Message-ID: >At 07:49 PM 7/1/98 -0800, Rax wrote: >>Thanks to the noble efforts of John Hickenbotham, my computer/internet > >And thanks for the equally noble effort at spelling my last name. It's >Higginbotham. :) Good work on the timeline. Hope to see it develop more in >the future. > Mea culpa. It's just one of those days when I'm trying to do too many things at once and not paying enough attention to any one of them. I once had a brother-in-law named Hickenbottom, and in the course of making sure I didn't confuse the two names and refer to you as Higgenbottom, I got the last part right and screwed up the beginning. Duh. R -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From kevan at heydon.org Thu Jul 2 03:44:25 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Mailing List Archives... Message-ID: After a few month pause, the archives of ClassicCmp are now working again at this new URL: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/ I hope people will find them usefull. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From blindpete at stratos.net Wed Jul 1 18:35:15 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Mag periph's drive info Message-ID: <199807020938.CAA31628@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Hi every One I found a web page that was helpfull when I was looking for drive specs ect, it is: www.fdisk.com It has links to a lot of interesting pages, including links to hard drive manufactures and search for. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 2 07:31:03 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <199807021017.MAA21569@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I think that $200 is approaching the very-high-end of anything I would >> go after myself. > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd turn it > down? Depends on the situation - If I don't have it (the money), I would just pass. If it's a single talk, I would try to barter for the price. If its a competition, I think I'll have to pass since USD 1000 wouldn't be the last call. > Whenever I see a system I want, I go through several rationalization > exercises. The first is "new systems cost much more and are much less > interesting." Yep > If that doesn't work, there's always "I haven't bought a new car in a > while, so I'll get this instead." Thats only the irrational exit if the rational way says no. > Then there's "if I value my time at $X/hour, and it would take me more > than Y hours to find this thing on my own, then it's worth at least $X*Y > to buy it from this guy." Nice, I have a similar system, used not only for computers. > For small stuff, I have a simple metric: sheer frivolous entertainment is > worth about $3/hour to me (e.g., movies: $6, magazine: $3, a good > book: $12, etc.), so if I can gain at least $X/3 hours of enjoyment from > the object, that's a buy signal. Hmm, don't fit my intention - 10 minutes of 'boh ey' it's mine could be more worth than 0.5 USD :) One of the nice things in collecting old computes and other stuff is that one could find things _unbeliable_worthy_ for zero money (or almost), since the value ist more determinated by our private idea about this particular thing. Example: I aquired some weeks ago two sealed ROM cards for the Apple II. They are just cheap (custom) ROM boards covered with blue resin (? Giessharz in German - don't know the exact term in english). Early designs of softwareprotection true hardware. They are complete worthless in any sense, but I enjoy it a lot to own them. So, whats the price ? If the owner had asked 20 USD, I would never had paid it. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Thu Jul 2 09:53:52 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <199807021240.OAA04284@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. It should be only a minor correction - just adding a 2^1 bit to get Win97, but due a litte mathematical problem they realy inverted the lower nibble before inverting the 2^1 .... :) The rest is history:) Grins H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From buck_c at polygon.com Thu Jul 2 09:58:15 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Misc. DEC Boards References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E95B@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: <359BA007.1F534059@polygon.com> I'd love to trade you for the KA650 board set. I don't have anything on your list, however. How much cash would you want? -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:15:49 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980702181549.12461.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I am letting three Compaq deskpros rot in the rain outside- I just have nothing for them to do. I'm sure they still work. Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? >Saved a Compaq Portable(w/5.25" FD and unknown 5.25" FH HD) from a >dumpster... AFTER a 10 foot flight into it! Plugged it in and it still >works... Needs some repairs, I can hear stuff rattling around inside, but >it does work... Booted from the hard drive with Compaq DOS 3.31. Also got a >MasterSport 386SL(386SX-20, 4MB RAM, 63MB HD) and a 486 motherboard(gonna >set it up with Linux or something). Also getting a 1970 VW Bug for my >birthday next week... I suppose this makes it a good day despite the belt >clip on my radio breaking this morning(now I get to make a nice metal one >to replace the broken plastic one). > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | >| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | >| Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | >-------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:23:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Thu Jul 2 14:03:21 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: <19980702181549.12461.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. ok r. From erd at infinet.com Thu Jul 2 14:09:26 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Any good search spots in L.A.? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 2, 98 03:03:21 pm Message-ID: <199807021909.PAA16111@user2.infinet.com> Howdy, all, I'm in sunny Glendale for the weekend, staying with a friend, and would love to take the opportunity to scour the area for goodies. Any suggestions? I'd rather take a planned approach than wander around the valley, looking for Goodwills. I realize that the Bay Areais better pickings than Los Angeles, but here is where I am. Later, -ethan From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Jul 2 16:32:19 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> I recently found a large number of hard sectored 8" disks and I was hoping some one might knows what computers would use these disks. * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index holes in the jacket) * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ Memorex compatible. (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) I could not find a web page for Dysan, I searched Memorex's and Verbatim's pages and I emailed Memorex and got no reply. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:21:07 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980702212107.23230.qmail@hotmail.com> What happened to wall sockets? >Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. > >ok >r. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 2 16:32:21 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: Wern't the original Altair 8 inch drives hard sectored? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Doug Coward wrote: > I recently found a large number of hard sectored 8" disks and > I was hoping some one might knows what computers would use > these disks. > > * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: > 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard > sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index > holes in the jacket) > > * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, > Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard > (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) > > * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard > * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ > Memorex compatible. > (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are > arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is > a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) > > I could not find a web page for Dysan, I searched Memorex's and > Verbatim's pages and I emailed Memorex and got no reply. > > > > > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= > > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 2 16:41:33 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <199807022141.AA16894@world.std.com> < * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: < 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. (I don't know if these are hard < sectored. There is just one index hole in the disk but two index < holes in the jacket) These are flippies, you turn the over to use the other side. Hence two index openings. < * Memorex 3201-3015, Compatibility: Shugart, Write protect, < Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: 32 hard < (Just regular 32 sector hard sectored disks) Exactly. < * Memorex 3071-2003, Single sided, Single density, Sectoring: hard < * Verbatim FD 65-9000-HR, Single side, Single density, Vydec/ < Memorex compatible. < (These have 33 index holes in the disk, but they are < arranged around the out side edge of the disk. Also there is < a 1 1/2" x 1/2" notch cut out one of the corners of the jacket.) old style hardsector Ony a few drives used that style. Allison From red at bears.org Thu Jul 2 16:43:36 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Apple //gs composite video prob Message-ID: Hi. I just picked up a ROM v01 //gs at a thrift shop. The colour composite video it generates is very badly artifacted. On my ][plus, there is a 'colour trim' adjustment which I would expect to correct this on the mainboard, but I didn't see anything like this on the //gs. Also, the colours are pale and incorrect when I use my Apple // RGB monitor (the one with the electric tilt) on the RGB port. This monitor doesn't work on the RGB port of my //c at all, so I'm wondering if it's just a matter of not being quite the right monitor for the //gs (which has, if I recall, a monitor more closely styled along Mac lines). Thoughts or hints? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:26:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Jul 1, 98 06:45:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/48b47a60/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:42:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807021017.MAA21569@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 2, 98 12:32:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/5832b7f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 13:45:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... In-Reply-To: <199807021240.OAA04284@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 2, 98 02:54:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 369 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/b38b7d63/attachment.ksh From g at kurico.com Thu Jul 2 17:50:51 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <199807020145.SAA17613@loomcom.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Jul 1, 98 06:45:48 pm Message-ID: > > > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd > > > turn it down? > > > > Well, actually I probably would. (Again, this is _ME_ personally here > > :) I can't speak for anyone else) > > Actually, nor would I. The Apple 1 is not the sort of machine that I'm > interested in. So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. I get no excitement from a Picasso, but if someone were to try to sell me one for $2000, you're damn straight I'd be all over that thing (assuming of course it wasn't hot, ie it is the sellers ignorance that they are selling that low). Factors that I consider are (not necessarily in order) - how badly do I want it - how much spare money do I have to acquire it - if I don't want it that badly, how much could I make off of it. - is it interesting and about to be tossed (i.e. should it be rescued) A perfect example being, if I could pick up a Lisa2 for $50, I most certainly would. Personally I don't want one (already got one), but I know that I could sell it for a _lot_ more. I know this concept goes against the beliefs of some members, just call me a slimeball capitalist. But on an Apple 1, that $29000 profit would go a long way to paying off debt, going towards the mortgage, paying for my kids tuition, etc. Anyway, my 00000010 cents George From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jul 2 17:59:39 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: find... help In-Reply-To: <199807020355.AA05347@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980702175939.006a1b84@pop3.concentric.net> Yes there is a card you need to place inside your machine and software. You can still download the software from HPO's site. Good luck on the interface card. John At 11:55 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >I aquired HPscanjet 9190A. > >I have the flatbed scanner and the cable but, I do not know if there is >an additional interface needed for PC or? use. the cable looks like >parallel printer cable. Any info may help. > >Allison > > > > From peacock at simconv.com Thu Jul 2 18:31:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E966@mail.simconv.com> -----Original Message----- From: George Currie [mailto:g@kurico.com] > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. I have a slot machine in my living room (and yes its legal, I live in Nevada). I could sell it for several times what I paid for it (even more if I sell it no questions asked), but it's there because I think the internal mechanisms are a work of art. I have some old radios from the 30's, again, I could sell them for more than I have invested, but the radios are there because they are works of engineering art too, for my enjoyment. And I enjoy owning them more than what the money I would get from them would bring me. The same with the computers. I'm sure I could get a good price for my '77 vintage IMSAI, in fact I got a few email offers the first time I mentioned it, but I'm not going to sell it. I bought it to own my own computer, I learned just about all I know about digital electronics from the years prototyping on it, and it still has a prominent place on my work table at home. It's a work of art too, even more because I put it together myself, I made it work, and I've kept it going all these years without help from anyone else. I put far more money into that machine than I ever got back in business, but that doesn't matter. Every dollar I spent on it paid off in other ways, personal satisfaction, knowledge, even entertainment at times. I don't buy equipment, be it computers, radios, or slot machines, because I think I'll make money on the deal. I do other things to make a living, I'll leave investing in antiquities and object d'art to the experts. Jack Peacock From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Jul 2 18:36:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: FW: DECStation 3100 available In-Reply-To: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> References: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <35a01944.1312559991@smtp.wa.jps.net> I hope the list will take this while I'm unsubscribed... This fellow wants to sell a DECStation 3100. If interested, please contact him directly. Have a great holiday! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:19:53 -0400, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "a.banerjee" >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: FS or trade: Digital Vaxstation 3100 >>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:19:53 -0400 >>Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA, USA >>Lines: 10 >>Message-ID: <359B9709.99D5E77F@larc.nasa.gov> >>Reply-To: a.banerjee@larc.nasa.gov >>NNTP-Posting-Host: satest2.larc.nasa.gov >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.0.154.208!ais.net!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!jamie!Qual.Net!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!reznor.larc.nasa.gov!not-for-mail >> >>not a dec person so any help identifying would be appreciated. >> >>digital vaxstation 3100 (no keyboard, mouse, disk or monitor) >>back has model # vs42a-bc >> >>make an offer or trade. >> >>please reply to bigshoe@erols.com >>thanks -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 17:56:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Jul 2, 98 02:32:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 966 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/e6f9238f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 2 18:49:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "George Currie" at Jul 2, 98 05:50:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/7e4b8f13/attachment.ksh From gene at ehrich.com Thu Jul 2 18:57:05 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Old, New & Ancient computer items for sale In-Reply-To: <3597DF54.744B5DFB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807022355.QAA03382@mxu2.u.washington.edu> I have lots of old 8 bit & PC hardware and software for sale on my web site listed below. Come take a look. ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 2 19:00:18 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Side story here. I was offered and Apple 1 a couple of years ago. I bid $3000 untested and $4500 powered up and working. I thought it was a done deal so called back the next night to arrange the trade (Had a chance to inspect so knew what I was buying). The owner rather contritely said they couldn't pass on another offer. The other offer was for $16K and went to the Woz himself. I hear that machine is now on display in DeAnza College. I'm disappointed the owner forgot about our done deal when Woz's offer came through (I'm sure Woz had no idea about our agreement), but in some small way I got what I wanted in that the unit is on display (Or better be on display) in Cupertino. Came really close to getting one of those machines (Sniff..Sigh). George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, George Currie wrote: > > > > So, if I offered you an Apple 1, one of 200 made, for $1000, you'd > > > > turn it down? > > > > > > Well, actually I probably would. (Again, this is _ME_ personally here > > > :) I can't speak for anyone else) > > > > Actually, nor would I. The Apple 1 is not the sort of machine that I'm > > interested in. > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item that is > potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? Hard to > believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that the thought of > making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even if I _hated_ Apple, > wouldn't pass up such a bargain. I get no excitement from a Picasso, but if > someone were to try to sell me one for $2000, you're damn straight I'd be all > over that thing (assuming of course it wasn't hot, ie it is the sellers ignorance > that they are selling that low). > > Factors that I consider are (not necessarily in order) > > - how badly do I want it > - how much spare money do I have to acquire it > - if I don't want it that badly, how much could I make off of it. > - is it interesting and about to be tossed (i.e. should it be rescued) > > A perfect example being, if I could pick up a Lisa2 for $50, I most certainly > would. Personally I don't want one (already got one), but I know that I could > sell it for a _lot_ more. I know this concept goes against the beliefs of some > members, just call me a slimeball capitalist. But on an Apple 1, that $29000 > profit would go a long way to paying off debt, going towards the mortgage, > paying for my kids tuition, etc. > > Anyway, my 00000010 cents > > George > From gene at ehrich.com Thu Jul 2 18:59:02 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: For Sale Lists on the WEB (was Re: OS/2 Warp) In-Reply-To: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807022357.QAA23995@mxu1.u.washington.edu> At 11:23 AM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp >here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. > >______________________________________________________ I have copies for sale on my web site listed below: http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Lot's of For Sale lists. Bookmark it and check back often for updates. Gene Ehrich From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jul 2 19:31:57 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980703001842.AAA23555@emusp6> Hi all, THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. but don't blame you for forawarding the wrong subject ;-)) cheers, emu From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 2 19:25:47 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available In-Reply-To: <19980703001842.AAA23555@emusp6> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up from Santa Clara, Ca. -- Doug From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Jul 2 20:03:28 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: old AOL disks Message-ID: <19980702180328.006e584d.in@mail.pressstart.com> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? >Before it was known as Applelink it was called "Samuel" and worked with >the apple ][ as well. >Q-Link or Quantum link came first for the C64 and then was expanded >to include the Apple II. Once upon a time in the early 80's a man named Bill von Meister started a company called Control Video Corporation. (Bill von Meister had been one of the founders of The Source which was bought by Readers Digest) CVC started a service for Atari 2600 users called GameLine. Users would plug a large modem cartridge into their 2600 and could download a game and play it until they turned their 2600 off. This service was kill by the Video game crash of '83. Next they developed proprietary modems for the C64 and the Apple II and started a service called MasterLine. Same thing, you could download and try software before buying it. This is when I started with CVC (about the end of 1983 I think) MasterLine lasted 3 months. Next they acquired the software from a small on-line service called Playnet and in 6 months launched QuantumLink (Q-Link for short). At some point in here they also changed their name to Quantum Computer Services. Q-Link was a C64 only service. About 1987 they started AppleLink: Personal Edition (not to be confused with Apple's tech support service AppleLink) for Apple II, and IIgs. And about the same time they also started PCLink running under Tandy's DeskMate GUI. This is also the point where I left the company and moved to California. In California I ported Q-Link's Rabbit Jack's Casino Games to run on AppleLink but other than that I lost track of the company. I believe they changed their name and the service's name to America On Line in 1989. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 19:46:05 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: old AOL disks Message-ID: <199807030046.RAA18148@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > Once upon a time in the early 80's a man named >Bill von Meister started a company called Control >Video Corporation. (Bill von Meister had been one >of the founders of The Source which was bought by >Readers Digest) What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? > CVC started a service for Atari >2600 users called GameLine. Users would plug a >large modem cartridge into their 2600 and could >download a game and play it until they turned >their 2600 off. This service was kill by the Video >game crash of '83. Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jul 2 20:09:09 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980703005545.AAA22920@emusp6> Hi Doug, why that? It is at least a nice X-terminal .... cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DECStation 3100 available > Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:25 PM > > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. > > If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 > (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up > from Santa Clara, Ca. > > -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Jul 2 20:04:16 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) Message-ID: <199807030104.AA25978@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: [free DS3100] > why that? It is at least a nice X-terminal .... I don't have the monitor or keyboard for it, it fails a diagnostic test (which might be related to the lack of keyboard/monitor), and it's too big for my collecting tastes (i.e., bigger than a breadbox). Besides, I have lots of machines that make fine X-terminals, but I still prefer a simple shell most of the time. But it's a fine example of an early MIPS box, and the case construction and power supply are nice and DECish. -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Jul 2 20:47:58 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 3, 98 00:49:59 am Message-ID: <199807030147.SAA08336@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1036 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980702/8b452066/attachment.ksh From billm at teleport.com Thu Jul 2 23:56:16 1998 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: 8" Disks For Sale NEW! Message-ID: <199807030456.VAA17652@user1.teleport.com> > Subject: NEW 8" Disks Available for sale > To: classicmp@u.washington.edu > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:49:02 -0700 (PDT) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Greetings, I have been watching the traffic about 8" disks while recovering > from an ugly bit of doctoring, (2 months plus under care..sigh) and being > without insurance, I feel its time to sell some stuff... > > I have NEW 8" disks still in the original Boxes Both Single and Double > sided. > Either Memorex for the Single or Intel Brand (at least its their Label) for > the Double sided. I was going to put them on the Auction net but wanted to > give the list a shot first. > > Figure $5 a box and we will negotiate on the shipping. > Its the original Hard Cardbox for the disks so there is a little weight > there. > > I have also 3 different of DYSAN alignment disks, but let me get to the > storage unit to be precise on the descriptions. > > Like I say at the swap meets, the more you buy the cheaper they get. and if > you do not like my prices tell me I will change them. > > I got a LOT of Disks,,gotta pay for the storage unit and I been off work for > 2 months... > Let me know.. > > thanks > > Bill > shipping from Portland, or > > --VAA20658.899441345/smtp2.teleport.com-- > From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 3 00:44:28 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? In-Reply-To: <199807021909.PAA16111@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 2, 98 03:09:26 pm Message-ID: <199807030544.BAA23657@user2.infinet.com> Yo, Mere hours after posting about searching for computer scrounging locales in L.A., I went to "Joe Factor Sales" (corner of Burbank and Hollywood Way), nominally a fastener house. Amongst the rows of military screws and wall of heavy duty hoses, my companion pointed out a lone computer board. When he pointed it out, I initially thought it was an Elf-II; it's the same size, has LEDs and a keypad, but it was something else entirely... The previous owner had glued a speaker to the upper left corner, obscuring the legend. After the proprietor had separated a fool from his money^H^H^H^H^H sold me the board, I pried the speaker off. Underneath was... Z80 Starter Kit SDS SD Systems (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two (unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". With all that, I still have questions: o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf of the day, but with a Z-80. o What ROMs might it program? 1702? (unlikely because of a lack of odd power supply voltages) 2708? There is a pad at one edge of the board that snakes over to the PGM/READ button, marked +25V. I simply do not know which particular 1978 ROMs used that particular programming voltage. o Why might I have heard of "Z-BUG"? Was it a famous monitor program for the Z-80 boards of the late 70's? o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it on E-overpay. Thanks for any hints. I'd love to learn more about the history of this thing. I just got it because it was a) affordable, b) a 1970's SBC, and c) it has a place to add cards and my own circuits, should I decide that's worth the effort. I could always wire on a 6164 RAM and a SCSI chip, but then what would I do? -ethan From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 3 00:54:50 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Any good search spots in L.A.? Message-ID: <199807030554.WAA01118@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hello, At 03:09 PM 7/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Howdy, all, > >I'm in sunny Glendale for the weekend, staying with a friend, and would love >to take the opportunity to scour the area for goodies. Any suggestions? I'd >rather take a planned approach than wander around the valley, looking for >Goodwills. I realize that the Bay Areais better pickings than Los Angeles, >but here is where I am. > There is C and H on Cororado Blvd. in Pasadena, but don't know if they have anything. There is also ECSC in Gardena, if you want to go that far. Their web site is www.eio.com The best bets seem to be the Ham radio swap meets, (not the commercial computer shows). The only one I know of on July 4 is in Santee, near San Diego. I enjoy the TRW meet the last Saturday of every month. I don't know if there are any gemeral or antique swap meets this weekend. Once per month there is one in the Rose Bowl. Wish I knew other places. I plan to visit the San Jose area in a few weeks, are there any suggestions for looking there? I know of Haltek in Mountain View and Halted + Weird Stuff in Santa Clara. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 3 01:48:03 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? Message-ID: <199807030648.XAA06896@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Ethan and all, At 01:44 AM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Yo, > > Z80 Starter Kit > SDS SD Systems > (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS > >It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), >a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two >(unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's >jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass >dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle >switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". > >With all that, I still have questions: > > o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf > of the day, but with a Z-80. > > o What ROMs might it program? 1702? (unlikely because of a lack of > odd power supply voltages) 2708? There is a pad at one edge of > the board that snakes over to the PGM/READ button, marked +25V. > I simply do not know which particular 1978 ROMs used that particular > programming voltage. > > o Why might I have heard of "Z-BUG"? Was it a famous monitor program > for the Z-80 boards of the late 70's? > > o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me > an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it > on E-overpay. > >Thanks for any hints. I'd love to learn more about the history of this >thing. I just got it because it was a) affordable, b) a 1970's SBC, and >c) it has a place to add cards and my own circuits, should I decide that's >worth the effort. I could always wire on a 6164 RAM and a SCSI chip, but >then what would I do? > >-ethan > If you don't find a use for it, I'd be interested. I remember some ads from SD Sales in old issues of BYTES's, but the single board Z-80 computer didn't have any S-100 connectors, etc, IIRC. I enjoy and would like to a) figure out the monitor code b) find out what EPROM it would program. If the circuit is simple, it probably is for a 2716. What size EPROM is the "Z-BUG" in? c) Find out if it can use or test various S-100 boards, depending on what signals are provided. Would be an upgrade for my simple S-100 tester. Thanks, -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 02:44:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Find: "Z80 Starter Kit" - any hints? In-Reply-To: <199807030544.BAA23657@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Z80 Starter Kit > SDS SD Systems > (C) 1978 MICRO DESIGN CONCEPTS > > It packs a Z80 w/PIO and CTC, 8 socketed 2101L RAMs (and room for 8 more!), > a prototyping area (with labeled address and data bits right there), and two > (unpopulated) S-100 slots (with pads for -/+16V and +8V) In addition, there's > jacks for a cassette tape drive (and buttons labelled "cass load" and "cass > dump"), and below the ROM socket (w/masked programmed ROM "Z-BUG"), a toggle > switch ("PGM"/"READ") and a 24-pin DIP socket marked "PRO PROGRAMMER". > > With all that, I still have questions: > > o Is there any info on this? It looks much like a SYM-1 or Elf > of the day, but with a Z-80. I have one of these with the manual. I don't know if I can find it in my mess but if you'd like I can give it a try and maybe send you a couple paragraphs from it. > > o If I can't find a good use for this, does anyone want to make me > an offer for it? I promise that I won't just go out and post it > on E-overpay. Its a relatively obscure board. I know of two others who have one, maybe a third. And now, of course, you. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From kevan at heydon.org Fri Jul 3 04:18:14 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > No. I've never sold a computer at a profit. Sometimes I've had to buy more > than one of a machine to get one at all (i.e. the seller has a pile he > wants to get rid of), but then I either keep them as spares or pass them > on to other UK collectors _for the price I payed_. I am with Tony on this one. I only ever pass things on to other collectors for the same price that I payed for them. I fact last year I saved some DEC Bridges from a skip and after deciding that I wouldn't have a use for them I passed them onto Tony as I knew they would be going to a good home. Saying this my collection could start making a profit soon because I have one of my old machines out on loan to a company that is paying me. I didn't ask for the money, they offered. Basically in March I had am email asking about the condition of my Sage IV computer. It transpired that the company in question uses one to control a key machine tool and their Sage had failed, and production had stopped! They were very keen to borrow my unit to get production going again and to port the software to a PC. This process is taking longer than expected and they now feel that they should be paying me for the loan of the machine. It is very difficult for me to refuse as it will provide much needed cash for buying other computers. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From franke at sbs.de Fri Jul 3 07:13:19 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <199807031000.MAA20871@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> Hint: Windows98 is Windows95 with the '5' replaced with an '8'. >> It should be only a minor correction - just adding a 2^1 bit to >> get Win97, but due a litte mathematical problem they realy inverted >> the lower nibble before inverting the 2^1 .... :) > Am I missing something? Ya > 95 = 1011111 > 98 = 1100010 95 = 00111001 00110101 (ASCII) or 10010101 (BCD) 98 = 00111001 00111000 (ASCII)or 10011000 (BCD) Or do you realy belive they have changed any code beside this byte ? >> The rest is history:) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From CharlesII at nwonline.net Fri Jul 3 06:35:50 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: c64 information Message-ID: Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching yourself how to program the c64? From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:07:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:03 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick Message-ID: I went back to the Salvation Army store where I picked up the Wang PC last week, and was shocked to find that ALL of the computer junk had been replaced by shelves full of lamp shades! I am NOT joking, they actually had shelves full of lamp shades where only one week earlier they had too much cool old electronic junk for me to carry, or even to look at properly. I was really happy a couple of months ago when the place 'reawakened' and started filling up with interesting stuff again. But now I know that the SOURCE of the computer stuff has probably always been there, it's just that the Salvation Army store has been keeping it from me! I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. :( I was assured that it was already gone, not just sitting in a dumpster outside. I now feel really badly that I didn't go back on Friday morning to rescue that IBM-PC that was full of cards, that Tandy 1000TX, those magnetic strip card readers, the VIC 1541, and that cool-looking grey and rounded Olivetti screen. In my defense all I can say is that I assumed I'd have another chance at them this week, and that I expected the biggest threat to be someone else buying them before I got back. But my competition is my friend, not my enemy. Unfortunately, my competition seems only to be interested in the VIC-20s, Commodore 64s, Atari 800s, and Apple //s, which all tended to disappear from the shelves fairly quickly. Now I'm hoping someone else DID pick up some of that stuff before it was thrown in the dumpster. I guess that Wang came to within two days of the end of its electronic life, and I am grateful that at least I was able to rescue it. But I would have liked to have had a good look at all of the monitors and terminals before they were turfed, because the one that was used with the Wang may have been among them. I'm feeling really depressed about this. And one thing that pisses me off is that they've still got a large shelf full of speakers, turntables, 8-track decks, old stereos etc. Why the hell would they keep that stuff, but toss the computers? There's a funky-looking 8-track + stereo receiver thing that has been in the store for YEARS, yet they won't hold onto old computers for more than a couple of months before the whole lot gets tossed into the trash? Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. I went back for the PC yesterday, despite the fact that I hadn't had ANY sleep the night before, and the fact that I'd have to carry it with me to work and then to class afterward. I thought I was going a little crazy for even considering it (I'm built like Stick Man), but now I wish I had attempted to rescue MORE stuff last week. Dammit, I wish I had dragged ALL the stuff I wanted to the desk and paid for it, and had them sit it in a back room until I could come back for it. Dammit, I wish there had been some sort of warning. Anyway, the total lack of anything interesting on the junk shelves did get me to look through the books. And I did find a few interesting things there (but nothing that'll make me any happier about those trashed computers). I guess I'm going to have to find out where those trashed computers GO. Anyway, the books I picked up were: Programmer's Guide to GEM (Balma & Filter, SYBEX 1986) Programming in Assembly Language: MACRO-11 (Edward F. Sowell, Addison-Wesley 1984) PC to VAX: A Communications Guide (Sandler & Badgett, Scott, Foresman and Company, 1990) Getting Started With Color BASIC (1981 Tandy Corporation) I think I may have to have a garage sale to sell some of the non-computer books I have, so that I can do something better with the computer books I keep buying than stacking them on the floor. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:37:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Odyssey 1 In-Reply-To: <199806261502.LAA18412@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Wow! Nice (simple) Odyssey page. Thanks. I prefer simple pages myself, even though I now work for a company that provides not-so-simple ones. (Once I'm settled in and am on a solid footing, I'll try to convince them to make their sites accessible via Lynx. :) ) > I, too, have one. It's not the original one my family had in 197x; that > one got cannibalized when I was a teenager for the parts. One of the > program cards got chopped and soldered to the connector for a 44-pin VIC-20 > bus extender (yes, the cards are the same pin cound and spacing). A > controller cable got a new lease on life as a C-64 printer cable (user-port > to centronics connector). I understand that these things happen, and at least you used it for something useful instead of just tossing it into the dumpster like certain other people would (I'm pissed off at what I found at the Salvation Army yesterday). When something is merely 'old' it's easy to cannibalize it. I was considering using the dozens of TI-99/4As that were sitting around at the SA for spare parts for electronics projects, but I knew nothing about electronics and the machines disappeared without a trace before I started shoveling them up. Actually, the first "collectors" machine I bought (i.e. the first machine I bought that wasn't to be used as my primary computer) was a broken-up old VIC-20. My actual intention was to teach myself something about electronics, using the VIC. A friend of mine had done all kinds of wonderful things with his VIC-20, he had even plugged a UART into it so that he could use it with his 9600bps modem. He had actually been working on interfacing a CGA card to the VIC at one point, but he never got it working. Anyway, the case of the VIC that I bought was cracked and the cartridge connector damaged, but otherwise it turned out to be functional, and it didn't take long before I fell in love with the thing. I never did get around to hacking it up. Or learning anything about electronics, unfortunately. > We used to play that thing for hours and hours. My biggest complaint was > that the overlays came in small and large, but we had a "medium" TV. My > favorite was the sub hunt, followed by the haunted house. I thought all of the overlays were fairly large. But I guess the folks who could afford an Odyssey could afford a large set. :) The TV set we had when I was a kid was the right size, but I don't think it would have worked very well. The surface of the CRT was curved quite a bit, but it had a flat plate of glass in front of it. It was an old wooden TV set with turntable and radio that my parents had purchased sometime in the 1950s. We didn't replace it (with a COLOUR set!) until 1979. Which, I think, is the same year my brother brought home his first computer. :) I never had a video game system until I picked up an Atari 2600 a while back at the same SA store that just junked all that computer stuff. As I think I mentioned, I've never powered up my Odyssey. I guess I should, though, just to make sure it works. The battery compartment doesn't look like it's ever had any batteries in it, though. The machine seems like it's hardly been used. > -ethan Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 07:41:19 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Way to identify original IBM-PC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > This is not sure-fire, but I've found that if the big label on the back does > NOT have the notice "contains copyrighted code..." that it's most likely an > original version. I wish I could go back and check. > Kai Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:11:41 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information References: Message-ID: <359CD88D.61379CC3@bibtel.com> CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: > Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching > yourself how to program the c64? Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many C64/128 links there. I have a C64 BASIC 2 programming manual I never use that I might sell. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:21:46 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) References: Message-ID: <359CDAEA.EB9ADAC5@bibtel.com> Kevan Heydon wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > No. I've never sold a computer at a profit. Sometimes I've had to buy more > > than one of a machine to get one at all (i.e. the seller has a pile he > > wants to get rid of), but then I either keep them as spares or pass them > > on to other UK collectors _for the price I payed_. > > I am with Tony on this one. I only ever pass things on to other > collectors for the same price that I payed for them. I fact last year I > saved some DEC Bridges from a skip and after deciding that I wouldn't have > a use for them I passed them onto Tony as I knew they would be going to a > good home. Most of the time I onl get shipping for the oldies but on occasion I'll ask for a few bucks to cover the time involved in getting it packed and down to the post office as well. On other occasions I maight make 5 bucks over but it's rare on the oldies that you can make a profit anyway. The 386SX and up I can turn a few dollars since they're still in the realm of everyday use. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:24:14 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp References: <19980702182327.18929.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <359CDB7D.9B9C01F@bibtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp > here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. It was some guy named carp that someone else cross posted from a newsgroup. He wanted a lot just to pack it besides the $20 for the OS/2 and the shipping though. I believe he quoted me $32 for each copy ($20 + 12 a little high) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:25:51 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... References: Message-ID: <359CDBDF.95939CAA@bibtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > Anyone know what compaq made that godforsaken power interface for? > > Power for the Compaq Mono monitor. the DIN connector on the back of the machine? Exactly for that. Is max looking for a 12v mono amber monitor for one? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bibtel.com Fri Jul 3 08:36:14 1998 From: rhblake at bibtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here Message-ID: <359CDE4E.EAFE2436@bibtel.com> Well I had been holding some older terminals for a guy that I'd already shipped some things to in the past to find that he's going to have to move and the items I had on hold won't be going to him after all. They all work and look good and they're going for FREE but you get to pay shipping, advance. I have the following (again) Visual 102 with keyboard DEC VT 220, no keyboard DEC VT 1xx (I have to check to see if it's a 100 or 131), no keyboard I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. I also have one last HP 700/44 terminal with keyboard/cable like new and very functional, amber screen, current loop and serial connections, emaulates a few terminal types that I would like $15 plus shipping for. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 3 08:52:10 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Old Radio Shack computers -FREE Message-ID: <001c01bda689$d7bf22c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 09:18:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. Doug, do you realize that you've just ironically damned the Salvation Army to hell? :) Well, I'm with you. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 09:28:32 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > The 8-pin DIN plug has a little symbol next to it which might represent a > > CRT. (It looks kind of like a pie slice.) > > Sorry, it has been over ten years since I last saw one of those critters > and my recall on that kind of detail is fuzzy. With the case off, the > content of the cards may well give you a clue, though. I don't have any kind of parts catalogue, but someone here might. Some parts are really obvious, but I'll list 'em anyway. On the motherboard: NEC D765AC (40-pin); eighteen times HM4864P-3 (so I guess Wang used parity); Intel D8086-2; AM9517/A-4PC (40-pin); Intel P8253-5 (24-pin); Intel P8259A (28-pin); Intel D8288 (20-pin); two times HN482732AG-30 (EPROM, 24-pin, in 28-pin socket); D3-6402-9 (40-pin); AM8255APC/P8255A (40-pin); SCN2661C/C1N28E/CP28028 (28-pin). The rest is TTL. The memory board only has RAM chips and TTL. The board with the funny cable connectors is labeled "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD" and "9245 - R0M0". The only interesting IC is a 40-pin chip labeled "WANG 2001/377-0508/IMP 03 8402BCA". The rest is TTL. The "mystery board" which is attached to the above board via ribbon cable has a Zilog Z80A CPU, and another chip from MOSTEK labeled "MK3882N-4/Z80-CTC". The rest is TTL. The board itself carries the label "WANG 9246 A R0M1". The IBM Mono Emulator board is labeled "P C Emulator" and "WANG 9443-R2-M2" and has two 28-pin EPROMs on it labeled "HN482764G-2". There are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. And BTW, the date codes on the parts suggest the following manufacturing dates: Motherboard: 1983 Memory board: 1986 "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD": 1984 Mystery Board: 1984 IBM Mono Emulator: 1985 Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 10:01:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199806280946.FAA31937@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > I used to have an old wang whith a 8086 cpu in it, it had a monotor whith > two cords coming out of it. > one was power and the other one was for the data, they both pluged into > the card whith two plugs on it. > the one I had used the round ps2 stile plug maybe a little bigger, like a > keyboard plug. Humm, sounds like the monitor plugs into the IBM Mono Emulator card, then. It has a 5-pin DIN connector and an 8-pin DIN connector. I would suspect that the one labeled with the (+) might be the power, and the one labeled with the pie slice might be the video connector. The IBM Mono Emulator card din't look like it had parts on it that could handle supplying power to a monitor, though. I hope the Wang monitor isn't too specialized, else I'll NEVER get to see this thing work! I think I'll plug another machine into it today, using a null modem, to see if the Wang expects a terminal hanging off its serial port. Pray that nothing blows up. > Pete Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jul 3 10:24:58 1998 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Apple //gs composite video prob Message-ID: <2F1488C0300@orchid.le.ac.uk> On 2 Jul 98 at 17:43, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I just picked up a ROM v01 //gs at a thrift shop. > > The colour composite video it generates is very badly artifacted. On my > ][plus, there is a 'colour trim' adjustment which I would expect to > correct this on the mainboard, but I didn't see anything like this on the > //gs. Sorry, I can't help with this bit. > Also, the colours are pale and incorrect when I use my Apple // RGB > monitor (the one with the electric tilt) on the RGB port. This monitor > doesn't work on the RGB port of my //c at all, so I'm wondering if it's > just a matter of not being quite the right monitor for the //gs (which > has, if I recall, a monitor more closely styled along Mac lines). Apple IIGS RGB port = analogue signal at NTSC frequency. This port requires the specific RGB display for the IIGS, early multi sync displays from Sony and NEC, many Amiga and Atari displays etc but NOT VGA. Apple // RGB tilt monitor = digital display, surely. You'll get some display from the IIGS on it but as you say the colours are wrong. Apple //c RGB port = raw RGB signal. It requires an adapter to convert it to something a monitor will understand. Alltech Electronics sell adapters for analogue and digital displays, I understand. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 3 10:27:28 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199806281607.JAA19558@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > The m I think if I remember it rite takes the user in to wang's ver of > msdos, The way to get back in, hmm might have been EXIT. Well, right now everything just seems to BEEP at me after I hit 'm'. But I don't have any kind of DOS for the Wang yet. > It does slide out of the sleeve quite nicely, the two cards that are > conected togather are lan and mem ory combination, I think, when I removed > them I had less memory. Yeah, it does open up quite easily. In fact, everything slides out nicely, even the motherboard. The motherboard is just screwed in with one screw, and it slides out. It's connected to the bus board with a different connector, but otherwise it's just like a (much) bigger card. The power supply connects to the bus board, too, and not to the motherboard. And the machine is full of TTL, with only a few big chips, so it looks like it was MADE to be serviced. I just hope I don't have to. :) As for the LAN and memory... I didn't spot any RAM chips on that second card, only TTL and a Z80 and Z80-CTC. I might have missed the RAM in the seas of TTL, though. > I can't remember if it booted in a wordprosesser or a menu, I think it was > a word prosessor. Interesting. But your machine had a hard drive, was it just loading the word processor from the drive or was a simple WP stashed away in ROM? > I seem to remember some thing funy about the program was you couldn't quit > it , it would not let you I think it just rebooted, unless you had a flopy > in drive A:. > The not so funy thing about the monotor is the power and data cords > coming out of it both had the same plug on the end of them, and pluging the > data plug in to the power socket on the vidio card was a hasard. Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my theory about the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think might be for the video actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. > Since they wore bothe the same kind of plug I tied a twist tie around the > power plug just to let me know whitch was whitch, just incase I got the ich > to use the monoter when I was writting stuff in the word prosesser. Umm... how did you use the word processor without a monitor? Are we talking about the same beast here? Or is the 'blind' part of your e-mail address reflect your reality? The Wang keyboard does have bumps on the 'F', 'J', and '5' keys. > Oh well, It was still is a great machine albeit huge! > > Pete Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mallison at konnections.com Fri Jul 3 11:00:14 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Pamela Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <01BDA669.60E15940@ip185-173.konnections.com> Max: I saw a copy at Bookman's on INA in Tucson AZ for 10.00 yesterday. Maybe someone could get you a phone number, I know they'd ship it. I'm back home now, or I'd pick it up for you.... Mike ---------- From: Max Eskin Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 12:23 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: OS/2 Warp I know this is less than 10 yrs. old, but somone offered OS/2 warp here and I forget who it was. I'll take if it's not too expensive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 11:33:20 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Whheee! Saved from a dumpster... Message-ID: <19980703163320.4099.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm looking for a reason why they went to the trouble of making it. What are the voltages on it? I don't actually have any of the hardware, just wondering. >the DIN connector on the back of the machine? Exactly for that. Is max >looking for a 12v mono amber monitor for one? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 3 11:51:19 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: References: <19980702143219.00c23b62.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980703095119.00997d90@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:32 PM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >Wern't the original Altair 8 inch drives hard sectored? Yes... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From g at kurico.com Fri Jul 3 11:44:48 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A811E966@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: George Currie [mailto:g@kurico.com] > > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item > that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? > Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that > the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even > if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > > > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If > I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write > programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. No, no, no. I think many people missed my point. I am not "in it for the money" either. For one, you can't really make enough to make it worth the time required. Secondly, I started collecting for the same reason that many/most of you did, for the love of tinkering and the machinery. My point was that given an opportunity to significantly enhance my income (in a legal and ethical manner), I would do so. And yes, to me a $20000 is a _significant_ sum of money. Unfortunately, I'm not rich. I have financial responsibilities and others who depend on me. I am not so puritan in my hobby, that I would pass up enough of a profit to actually send my kid to school for a year (or semester depending on the school). Hell, I'd just as soon give the money to my parents to help them (IRS problems), or to a close friend of mine (health problems), than just pass it up. For me, that's what it boils down to, there are certain things that _no_ computer can come close to in regards to importance. Money isn't a number in your bank account, good things can be achieved with it. And if you have no one or cause close to you that could really use some extra money, then you are a lucky person. Anyway, I just didn't want to leave people with the impression that I'm just acquiring stuff for eventual profit (heck I have about 75 classic Macs sitting in my garage that I'm about to donate/give away). Additionally, I don't know how the selling of a single high profit item suddenly turns one into a "dealer" or "broker". I assume that if anyone on this list were suddenly in dire financial straights, they'd still sell that IMSAI that they got for $50 four years ago for $50 now. So if anyone wants to sell me their Apple 1 at their cost, I'd be more than happy to oblige. George From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 3 11:58:46 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980703095846.008c4180@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:07 AM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I went back to the Salvation Army store where I picked up the Wang PC last >week, and was shocked to find that ALL of the computer junk had been >replaced by shelves full of lamp shades! > >I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', >and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. :( I was assured >that it was already gone, not just sitting in a dumpster outside. Sad, but be warned... If they are anything like the ones up here, while they will usually refuse to negociate even a little bit on a price, they also will not hesitate to call the police if they find someone 'dumpster diving', since they convieniently manage to rationalize it as 'theft'. (and no, it was not me in the dumpster...) An odd lot that... Even more annoying when I heard a story on the news yesterday that the 'Goodwill' stores are a $36 million per year business! When you consider that (nearly) all of the items they are selling are donated, one might think that they could afford to be a bit less militant. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 03:03:50 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807031806.LAA27505@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Hi Yes a reality, and a nic name I got from some friends. I don't remember the key stroke to open a new file or to save to disk, but it had some thing to do whith function key 3 or 4 I think remember it's been a while, after the function key a letter I am not sure whitch letter opened a new fiel whith a prompt for a file name: you typed in the file name pressed enter and you wore in the word prosessor, and could type what ever in. I used it mostly to write messages on from calls ect, I would leave it on all day, and get some help later on some one would read it back to me so I could braille it out. The drive was ten MB and had Wang dos on it and the word prosser was also on it. The monotor was a Wang monotor, I don't know if they are still available. This Wang I had was baught at a flee market, a fellow had 20 or 30 of them he was selling complete for $25 about ten years ago. A friend saw it and snagged one for me he knew I was interested in computers, and thought it would make a interesting birthday present for me. I sold it eventually because I couldn't het a sinthasiser that would work in the card slots, they worent ISA or any thing like that, not sure what they wore. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 3 17:05:03 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> Okay gang, here's the story: A week ago on Wednesday I literally stumbled across a Usenet advertisement listing a VAX 11/750, PDP's, etc available for sale. It was *nearby*! (Well, 50 miles is 'close' compared to any other DEC classics I've seen for sale.) And it was in what is generally considered an even more backwater area in north-western Pennsylvania! I therefore humbly apologize for the rant a couple of weeks ago stating that virtually nothing of interest to me is available around me. To make a short story long, I contacted him regarding buying any RT-11 documentation he may have plus I made an offer on the hardware listed. He replied saying my offer was acceptable (Great! :-)). Plus, he said he had more stuff available. We talked on the phone and he mentioned another system available. Yet other hardware was put into my pile. When I got there, and after he had a chance to go thru a storage room, more hardware! Well, yesterday (3 July) I took a rental truck with a 15' x 7.5' box and my uncle, who's in town for the holiday, to pickup the gear. Only truck available in the area amongst 8 rental truck shops. I thought it might be more than large enough. I came back home with that thing actually *stuffed* full, all for my original bid. NOW there probably is nothing of interest left around my area . We spent about 6.5 hours loading the stuff. Hauled down from second floor via elevator, through building and down a sidewalk to parking lot. Thank Heaven the truck had a hydraulic lift gate. Took 2.5 hours to offload into the garage. Now I have two problems: 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem #1) Why did I take such a large amount of equipment? The person selling had no other persons seriously interested. Somebody wanted the uVAX but never followed through to close a deal. Recall I said that this was a really backwater area. Nobody like us types in ClassicCmp around there for sure even though he advertised the DEC stuff in the area newspapers, as I understand him saying, in addition to at least several newsgroups (pgh.forsale is the one I stumbled onto while searching DejaNews for anything about RT-11). He had to close out his offices because he's located in California now. Obviously could not take the DEC stuff with him as you'll understand from the list below. He and his wife are going back home to California Monday or Tuesday. Therefore, the dumpster would be the final location of this equipment. So, this has turned into one of those Classic Computer Rescues to which some of the members of this list dedicate themselves. Problem number 3: I cannot keep everything (again, check the length and content of the list below and problem #1 above). This is where you folks can help! So, please contact me to come and get some of this equipment for yourselves or others. This is urgent as I need to clear out the garage again. We got done unloading just before dark last night. Today, I made just a quick list of major pieces to post. Had NO time yet to look at stuff further. Here's the list. See notes below list. 1. VAX 11/750-CA 2. TU80 and RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. 3. RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. 4. PDP-11/24 with two RL02s in short rack. 5. PDP-11/34A 6. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. 7. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. 8 VAX 11/730-CA. Covers off chassis, may not work. 9. PDP-11/34 in 6'rack w/TS03 and RL01-A. 10. RK07 in short rack. 11. RK07-PA rack (rack only) 12. RK07 not in rack. Said to possibly not work. 13. RA60-AA in short rack. 14. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. 15. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. 16. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside in a short rack. 17. 1-LP25 Band Printer 18. 3 units: Decwriter III (LA120? gotta check this) 19. 1-Decwriter II 20. 4 units: VT100 terminals 21. 1-VT220 terminal 23. 2-ADM 11 terminals 24. RL02, no rack. 25. RL02, no rack. 26. RL02, no rack. 27. RL02, no rack, marked "Bad?". 28. RL01-A, no rack. 29. RX02-BA, no rack. 30. RL02 in short rack w/some sort of Genigraphics chassis. 31. MicroPDP-11 32. MicroVAX II 33. Empty 6' rack from old -11/34, labeled Model H960-CF. 34. Empty 6' rack from something else, labeled Model SM-30LLA-LA. 35. Bunches of tapes for the various systems. I gotta sort through them first! 36. Bunches of RL01 and RL02 disc paks. Several RK07 paks. I gotta sort through them! 37. 7' tall tape storage rack. 38. About 10 to 15 shelf-feet of DEC documentation. 39. Bunch of spare Unibus and Q-bus boards. End. Notes: * I refer to 'short rack' or simply 'rack' as the one which is about 4' tall. Same styling as VAX cabinet, etc. as some of you already know. * The -11/34A, -11/24 and 750 booted okay the day before. * I'm still so tired. * Types of boards in BA-11's and assembled machines are not listed. Will do that when time available or opportunity offers a chance. * Same for the bunch of spare boards. Now before calling me, I must state the following for you to know up front: ** The uVAX and uPDP are staying here! Beverly thinks they are just fine (as in 'small' ). ** One OR two of the bigger systems I want to keep. Don't know which, but the 750, 11/24, 6-foot 11/34 and 11/34A are in the running for being my choice along with their appropriate peripherals. I'm asking for advice from the DEC gurus in the group on this by private email if you can. Don't clutter up the list with the advice unless you feel it is necessary to get opinions. **NO documentation will be let go unless it is redundant. That was the original reason for checking this sale out. I got the RT-11 docs I was hunting for anyway. ** I need to: first sort through the documentation; next organize the original systems and their spares; finally evaluate what I want to keep. There will be questions posted here as I've never owned DEC hardware up to now. I've just been aware of DEC for years and have listened to the many informative technical discussions here (but I never *retained* much of it in my mind since I never had any hardware/software to practice it on! Now there's suddenly a garage-full. Go figure!) Be aware that I'll need help and may unintentionally come across as a 'newbie', so be nice. I have to work quickly at resolving this but do not have very many DEC-related URLs or other reference sources lined up yet. (Send me yours!) ** Plan on taking the rest as soon as you can get one or more "Rescue Brigades" arranged. Just pitch-in a few bucks to help with part of my costs (only paid a little over 400 dollars for everything *including* truck rental and diesel fuel, ibuprofin, Coca Cola). Will consider horsetrading. ** _Please_ do not hesitate calling me at our home number below 09:00 to 21:30 this weekend. We have an answering machine if we are outside the house. We will not be traveling as we have relatives visiting. If you _really_ have to, you may call me at my office on workdays but I am often rather busy in other parts of the manufacturing areas. If you *really, really* have to call during the work day and need to talk to me, my wife works at the same company and can take the message. Ask for Beverly, phone 716.661.1843. But try to call the house and find me or leave message first. BTW: Don't let Bev tell you to come take _everything_ while I'm at work! Email is okay too, but I will not be able to read it until sometime Monday or Tuesday. It all has to be out of the garage as soon as possible. Bev is very understandably kinda pissed off. It's payback time for me. I am not too happy with the garage either but I could NOT bear to see this stuff dumpstered. As it was, I had to leave one LP26 Band Printer behind. There was only exactly one to three inches of space, depending upon which point you checked, left for the truck door to be pulled down. Truck was piled up to my height (6', 0"), and even higher in spots. Forgive my long message. I'm rather tired and a bit sore yet which causes me to not be concise or able to organize my thinking well. Thanks for helping me rescue DEC equipment. --Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian 31 Houston Avenue, WE Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home Jamestown, New York +716-661-1832 -Office 14701-2627 USA Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax email: cfandt@servtech.com Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 3 17:48:13 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here Message-ID: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 3 17:49:14 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? In-Reply-To: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 3, 98 06:05:03 pm Message-ID: <199807032249.PAA02361@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/d65142bf/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Jul 3 17:51:07 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here In-Reply-To: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> from "Francois" at Jul 3, 98 05:48:13 pm Message-ID: <199807032251.PAA02376@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/36b4f0a0/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 18:19:04 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, George Currie wrote: > > > So let me get this straight, if you had an opportunity to buy an item > > that is potentially worth $30000+ for only $1000 you would all pass it up? > > Hard to believe. Well I guess everyone else on this list is so rich that > > the thought of making 30x profit is nothing. Me on the other hand, even > > if I _hated_ Apple, wouldn't pass up such a bargain. > > > > > Not everyone is in it for the money. This is a hobby, not a business. If > > I were a broker sure I'd take it, but that's not what I do. I write > > programs, I build controllers, I don't broker used equipment. > > No, no, no. I think many people missed my point. I am not "in it for the > money" either. For one, you can't really make enough to make it worth the > time required. Secondly, I started collecting for the same reason that > many/most of you did, for the love of tinkering and the machinery. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet chicks!! Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 18:26:19 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980703095846.008c4180@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, James Willing wrote: > An odd lot that... Even more annoying when I heard a story on the news > yesterday that the 'Goodwill' stores are a $36 million per year business! > When you consider that (nearly) all of the items they are selling are > donated, one might think that they could afford to be a bit less militant. Heck, haven't you guys heard about the big fraud charges being levied against (is it the Goodwill or Salvation Army?) in the San Jose chapter? Something like $5million turned up missing and nobody can explain what happened to it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 12:42:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: LISA (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199807030104.AA25978@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 2, 98 09:04:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 977 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/ca985bfc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:35:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 10:28:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/0e70315e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:43:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 11:01:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/32010903/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:46:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 3, 98 11:27:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/69c05b5e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 13:22:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Jul 3, 98 02:18:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980703/9e207f91/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:38:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here References: <007b01bda6d4$a9f31680$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <359D796B.EDBF6C55@bbtel.com> Francois wrote: > >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or > >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. > > Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the 10th. I thought *I* was picky. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:41:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) References: Message-ID: <359D7A2D.C2018701@bbtel.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > chicks!! > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 19:44:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) References: Message-ID: <359D7B08.57B480D@bbtel.com> Tony Duell wrote: > I think a fairer comment in my case would be that I've never bought a > computer with the aim of selling it at a profit to other collectors. For > example : If a person can actually find a buyer that will pay Ebay type prices I think they should sell it for that, but I personally find it next to impossible to locate the type that would pay these prices, and besides a collection they have no real use in today's corporate business, as they are usually the ones that sold them at salvage/surplus. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 3 20:15:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <359D7B08.57B480D@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 3, 98 07:44:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/0133971f/attachment.ksh From CharlesII at nwonline.net Fri Jul 3 20:21:42 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information Message-ID: CL>CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: CL>> Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching CL>> yourself how to program the c64? CL> Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many CL>C64/128 links there. I have a C64 BASIC 2 programming manual I never use CL>that I might sell. CL> -------------------------------------------------------------------- CL> Russ Blakeman CL> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 CL> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 CL> Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com CL> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ CL> ICQ UIN #1714857 CL> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" CL> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* CL> -------------------------------------------------------------------- There dosen't seem to be any links at the web page mentioned. Are you shure that is the right address? From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 20:55:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: c64 information References: Message-ID: <359D8B7B.207BCEBB@bbtel.com> CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: CL> Try Jim Brain's page at http://www.jbrain.com/ as there are many > There dosen't seem to be any links at the web page mentioned. Are you > shure that is the right address? Try this, I haven't been on Jim's site in a while and he may have decided that there are enough links pages around: http://www.cucug.org/c64128.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Jul 3 21:06:54 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <19980703193515.05e8f011.in@mail.pressstart.com> Tom Owad said: >What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? I don't really know. >Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? I sure you can find a better explaination in any of a half dozen books that are out about the video game business but here is my condensed version for what it's worth: Prior to 1983 Atari was making ALOT OF MONEY selling 2600 units and cartridges (remember PAC-MAN fever). It was the Microsoft of the 70s and early 80s. Many other companies, not wanting to miss the boat, saw this happening and jumped in with their their own systems. Some of these companies were betting the farm on this craze. And it seem like everyone and their kid sister was coming out with cartridges for these systems. (At one point you could send in to the makers of Gravy Train (or was it Chuck Wagon) dog food to get a cartridge called "Chase the Chuck Wagon") I have heard that black market copies of the programming manual for the 2600 cost $10,000, which is a small price to pay if you could possibly make millions making and selling cartridges. Some programmers made 1 million dollar bonuses on a single game and that was back when one programmer by himself would write a game in 6 months. It was a time of madness. BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids were playing video games too much. The fad was over. Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. Some very large companies almost went lights out when the prices fell. Atari was split up into Atari Games(coin-op) and Atari Corp.(home computers) Other companies just faded away. Home video game systems did not come back into fashion until 1986 with Nintendo. For more details see http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/atari/Atari-Timeline.html ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Jul 3 21:19:42 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Making Profits (Was Re: LISA (fwd)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807040219.MAA14169@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 02:18 AM 03-07-98 -0700, Kevan Heydon wrote: >Saying this my collection could start making a profit soon because I have >one of my old machines out on loan to a company that is paying me. I >didn't ask for the money, they offered. I've loaned out bits of my PDP-8A via a friend to an organization that still uses them to drive some machinery (I've never asked, and no one has ever offered to tell me what they're used for - I just know that it's something in a government department. Perhaps it's being used for code breaking :-) I've never asked for money, but surprisingly, the bits always return in a box with a nice bottle (port or whisky). I feel happy to have helped and it's just a nice gesture to attach something on it's return. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 21:22:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq Message-ID: <359D91EE.E4BD0AEA@bbtel.com> Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on your Compaq machine should view: http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 3 21:43:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq (and others) Message-ID: <5b5fcab2.359d96d5@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-03 22:22:55 EDT, you write: << Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on your Compaq machine should view: http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. >> harrrumph, don't feel bad, it seems like almost 100% failure rate when end users are upgrading to windont98 on IBM aptiva models as well. seems to be that there's always something that is not working correctly. so much for backwards compatibility! most users dont also know about fat32. once you convert, you cant go back and you cannot do the best thing which is remove 98 altogether! david From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Jul 3 21:56:41 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Win98 on Compaq (and others) References: <5b5fcab2.359d96d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <359D99E8.2AACB996@bbtel.com> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-03 22:22:55 EDT, you write: > > << Anyone that's having problems putting the ever-terrible Windows 98 on > your Compaq machine should view: > http://www.compaq.com/athome/win98/ > Keep it real, only machines that 98 could run on, not the oldies. > >> > > harrrumph, don't feel bad, it seems like almost 100% failure rate when end > users are upgrading to windont98 on IBM aptiva models as well. seems to be > that there's always something that is not working correctly. so much for > backwards compatibility! most users dont also know about fat32. once you > convert, you cant go back and you cannot do the best thing which is remove 98 > altogether! I found this after a customer had a problem "self installing" WinBlows98.....I did some research and found the site and thought maybe a few might want to see this before trashing everything they worked into the system so far, especially on gigantic drives that have had software installed for years now. Without even having to mention it, you know I had to reinstall Win95 and all of his software, start all over basically. I was going to do a minimal install of 95B and then add 98 over it and then reinstall the stuff on the drive, but he feels the urge now to take Mr. Gates up on his money back offer, permanently. Personally I'm staying with my 95 on the one machine, NT 4.0 on another, DOS 6.22 and Win 3.1 on another and DOS 6.22 with 4DOS added on yet the other two (8088 and 80286 w/640k). I'll probably try 98 after the little bugaboos are found and fixed, ie - on-the-market beta testing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:06:58 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer Message-ID: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> I recently acquired this S-100 computer. It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards and on a nameplate on the front of the floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. and the model is 800D-4E. Can anyone please tell me more about it? Here is a link to photos I have uploaded... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Computer.jpg Thanks, Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 22:13:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) In-Reply-To: <359D7A2D.C2018701@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > > chicks!! > > > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! > > Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the > hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? Heck no! What do you take me for, a nerd? I just say "Hey babe! Wanna see my IMSAI?" It works every time! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From billm at teleport.com Fri Jul 3 22:15:45 1998 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: 8" Disks Update Message-ID: <199807040315.UAA23967@user1.teleport.com> Greetings, I finally went to the Storage Unit and this is what I have. All DYSAN 8" Disks 3740/1 Single Density Unformatted 3740/1D Single sided double Density Formatted as 128 Bytes/ 26 sectors 101/1D single Sided Double Density 32 HARD Sectors 3740/2D Double Sided Double Density Formatted 1024 bytes/8 sectors Many Boxes of Each all in Original Shrink wrapped Boxes $5 a box and we will haggle on the delivery The more you buy the cheaper they get! Also several Versions of the Dysan Alignment disks.. Make Offer all brand new Bill Marx From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Jul 3 22:26:55 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I recently acquired this S-100 computer. > It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards > and on a nameplate on the front of the > floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which > says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. > and the model is 800D-4E. > Can anyone please tell me more about it? > Here is a link to photos I have uploaded... > > http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Computer.jpg Bob, that is one sweet machine. The neatest thing about it for me is where it was made. Visalia is this middle of the nowhere town in central California. There is nothing out there except for cows and lettuce fields. And a state prison. So its surprising. Nice pictures but I can't really make anything out. Are all the cards branded Integrand or are there any Thinker Toys (Morrow) or Godbout cards inside? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 3 23:40:42 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here In-Reply-To: <359D796B.EDBF6C55@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > >I need to hear from someone and get a firm answer by Friday July 5th or > > >they go the way of the dead TV - to the dump. > > > > Isn't the next fiday July 5th in 2006? > > Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the > 10th. I thought *I* was picky. I'll refrain from making any comments about glasses. Oh, darn, there it is... - don From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 4 00:07:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:04 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: <19980704030658.10827.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I recently acquired this S-100 computer. > It says "Micropolis" on one of the PC cards > and on a nameplate on the front of the > floppy drive. It carries a tag inside which Micropolis is the name of the floppy drive and controller maker, one of the first 5.25" drives out, I think. I've got one from circa 1977 in one of the IMSAI's I dragged home today :-) > says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. > and the model is 800D-4E. If none of the cards or motherboard has this brand name on it, then chances are that Integrand just manufactured the chassis. I have a similar no-name S-100 box with a nice wood cabinet. BTW, the IMSAIs I nabbed today were the 2nd and 3rd of the three (!) this guy had for sale. Unfortunately, somebody from Texas swooped down and grabbed box 1 along wth *all* of the IMSAI docs and the CPU card from one of my boxes :-( But that just means I got a better deal, and makes my upcoming IMSAI projects that much more fun :-) So, who has some IMSAI docs they'd like to trade away? Who made CPU cards that have a plug for the front-panel header? And where can I get the plastic IMSAI toggle switches? (One of the IMSAIs is missing most of the switches). BTW, I also got a SBC as part of the deal (in addition to some other cool stuff). Anybody familar with the Advanced Digital Super Six? -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 00:20:31 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: IBM monochrome, was Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807040520.WAA23060@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi all, At 07:35 PM 7/3/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: ... >> The IBM Mono Emulator board is labeled "P C Emulator" and "WANG >> 9443-R2-M2" and has two 28-pin EPROMs on it labeled "HN482764G-2". There > >8K*8 EPROMS. >> are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a > >RAM, I think. Possibly video RAM. > >> 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. > >6845 CRT controller (basically the timing chain for the video section). > >Is there another 24 pin chip (EPROM or ROM) on this board as a character >generator? I would have expected one. Unless one of the 5565s is used for >that and loaded from disk or something. > Did the early IBM mono boards have a character generator, like in serial terminals? I thought I had one, but it is a clone, still with a 6845 and 64k dynamic ram, 8 ic's. There is a 6116 2k byte ram on it, in a socket, which I assume is loaded from the BIOS with the character data. See no ROM. Newer boards with (almost) a single ASIC chip, I have no idea what they do. -Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 00:51:46 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Terminals I need to get out of here References: Message-ID: <359DC2F1.CACA5F36@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > Ok, I looked at the dang JUNE calendar. This next Friday, after today. the > > 10th. I thought *I* was picky. > > I'll refrain from making any comments about glasses. Oh, darn, there it > is... Cute Don. Besides the glasses are on order (grin). -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 07:00:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: IBM monochrome, was Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807040520.WAA23060@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 3, 98 10:20:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1311 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/78b8f082/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 4 03:26:45 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Back On Line Message-ID: <199807041228.IAA09271@smtp.interlog.com> Hi ,my server had me down since june27 and deleted all my msgs. Was I pissed-off !@$#@!@!$ I'm up and running again now. Could anyone who might have sent me any msgs. during that time please resend . Thank you. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 21:31:44 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <199807041234.FAA16283@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi Every One This sounds really great! I am blind and do have a love for machinery mechanical as well as eletrical, What I know about computers is self learned, I always wanted to aquire a main frame computer, so I could learn about it. I am building a small net work of my own, could I use a main frame as a hub, I know it might be a dumb question, but you don't know unless you ask, right? I ran across the garage full of computer equiptment and thought here is my chance. But, I don't know about the equiptment and am looking for imput. What do you think? Can we get me setup? I'll found a speech synthasiser screenreader for unix based systems, here again do to lack of familarity I don't know what OS these machines are using. Any impute or coments would be fine! Write to: blindpete@stratos.net or: blndpete@raex.com Again thanks! Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 4 08:06:27 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? References: <199807032206.WAA21792@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <359E28D3.F55851E4@idirect.com> >Christian Fandt wrote: > Now I have two problems: > > 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew > from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? > > 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house > on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem #1) Jerome Fine replies: Wow!!!!! What a haul. Like a kid in a candy store. I have the same set of problems as well. But congratulations on the find. I have been looking for other people who do RT-11? Is it a very small or large part of your hobby? I notice that you don't mention much about the PDP-11 software. Is there any RT-11 or is it all RSX and/or RSTS? I have been looking for up to date DOCS for a while and can't seem to find any that are recent (less than about 15 years old). I hope you found some. If there are any duplicates that no one else has asked for, please let me know. How far is Jamestown from Buffalo? I am in Toronto which is about 2 hours from Buffalo to start with. If you are active with RT-11, I would certainly like to keep in touch. My primary focus right now is helping some friends who need their systems fixed for Year 2000. After that is all done, I hope to help the RT-11 hobby users. If you wish to return you phone number, I will call on Sunday if that is OK by you. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict (416) 667-8233 From blindpete at stratos.net Fri Jul 3 22:38:43 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Wang Thang Message-ID: <199807041341.GAA17809@mxu3.u.washington.edu> On 1998-07-03 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said: BP{> > The not so funy thing about the monotor is the power and BP{>data cords > coming out of it both had the same plug on the end BP{>of them, and pluging the > data plug in to the power socket on BP{the vidio card was a hasard. > BP{> Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my BP{>theory about the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think BP{>might be for the video actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. BP{A 5 pin DIN plug will mate with a 7 or 8 pin socket (!). Just what BP{you need to cause problems IMHO. BP{Which way round do you think the connectors are? BP{-tony Hi Tony Everyone I think the two cables coming from the monotor wore stuck togather like a two contuctor lamp cord would be stuck togather, you could separate the two cords by pulling apart. I think the power cable was the one on the left as you are looking at the monotor from the front, like you would to see what's on it. Sliding your hand along the under side fo the monotor from front to back you would find the cables entering the botom of the monotor case. Each cable had it's own round molded thingy whitch was fixec to the monotor case, so you could tel witch one was witch. I am not sure about the markings on the monotor case, it felt like smooth plastic to me around rhe place whrer the cables went into the monotor. The pie shaped symble stands for a cathode ray toob. The cable on the leftof the monotor looking from the front went into the whole on the left of the Wang computer looking at it also from the front. and the cable on the right went in to the whole on the right, I think that's the way it went togather. Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 10:23:25 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704152325.26758.qmail@hotmail.com> This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. Suggestions? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 10:44:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704152325.26758.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 08:23:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/f6958f30/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Sat Jul 4 13:03:33 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DECStation 3100 available Message-ID: <19980704175006.AAA74@emusp6> Hi Doug, if still have the DS3100, i would take it ;-)) cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DECStation 3100 available > Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:25 PM > > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > THIS IS A VAXSTATION, NOT A DECSTATION. > > If anybody was disappointed, and really wants a DECStation 3100 > (MIPS-based unix box), I've got one that is free as long as you pick it up > from Santa Clara, Ca. > > -- Doug From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 12:57:01 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704175701.27261.qmail@hotmail.com> So how do I know which ones to replace? There are two fairly large cans, about a dozen smaller ones, and several mica caps. >First suggestion : Dried up capacitors. If you have an ESR meter (and I >don't either...) then test all the electrolytics in the unit. Replace any >that are defective. If you don't have an ESR meter, then you might try >replacing them anyway. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 13:19:32 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <199807041819.LAA25140@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 08:23 AM 7/4/98 PDT, you wrote: >This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a >Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged >into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the >motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I >plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 >HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. >Suggestions? > Is it a switching PSU? I would guess so. Many do not regulate well under no load, as there is a minimum current and switching on time required. It may be also that a main high-voltage filter capacitor is bad, feeding more raw AC into the switching stage. The 120Hz points to this. Under light loads, the output low voltage filter capacitors are enough. Under heavier loads, the line AC ripple is seen in the outputs which now cannot hold the voltages. Use caution on the high voltage side. -Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 4 13:33:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer Message-ID: <199807041833.AA12363@world.std.com> <> says the manufacturer is INTEGRAND - Visalia, CA. <> and the model is 800D-4E. Intergrand made boxes only. They made some of the best s100 crate in the industry. Rugged, well cooled and well thought out. Allison From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Jul 4 09:51:26 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807041819.LAA25140@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199807041830.OAA09313@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: dave dameron > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > At 08:23 AM 7/4/98 PDT, you wrote: > >This is not quite on topic. I want to know if it's practical to repair a > >Mac Quadra's PSU. The problem is that it runs fine, when not plugged > >into anything. When some given amount of stuff is connected (just the > >motherboard does it), the fan starts oscillationg back and forth. When I > >plug in speakers they make a beating sound. I counted it to be about 120 > >HZ. This seems to me like a single component, possibly a diode. > >Suggestions? > > > Is it a switching PSU? I would guess so. Many do not regulate well under no > load, as there is a minimum current and switching on time required. > > It may be also that a main high-voltage filter capacitor is bad, feeding > more raw AC into the switching stage. The 120Hz points to this. Under light > loads, the output low voltage > filter capacitors are enough. Under heavier loads, the line AC ripple is seen > in the outputs which now cannot hold the voltages. > Use caution on the high voltage side. > -Dave Work on it without any power and close that PSU up before doing any testings under load. You need to remove that main transformer first so that will not confuse your meter readings on diodes and other components. The fluttering fan points to either decayed capacitors in primary side or dud diode in your secondary side. Use your meter in ohm in around 200K to 2000K mode on capacitors, as it charges up, you're reading a voltage drop until it stops charging up then you read no voltage. Longer on larger ones and fast on small ones. Judge these speed of charging up by other good capacitors. Do that on individually removed capacitors and put em back in right polarity!! For any secondary caps, you want hi frenquency at 105C rating but you can use normal grade at 105C on primary side because this is only function to filter the mains power. For Diodes, they're high speed recovery and at hi frequency types in large current ratings. Don't worry about the complex circuit with thround resistors and little capacitors, it's working becasuse of that fluttering fan and it did power up when you commanded it to turn on by the keyboard. Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 4 15:27:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Please help identify this S-100 computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: **** snip **** > BTW, I also got a SBC as part of the deal (in addition to some other cool > stuff). Anybody familar with the Advanced Digital Super Six? I can probably help you, Doug, as I have a couple of them floating around here. - don From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Jul 4 12:14:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Im back Message-ID: <199807042115.RAA21686@smtp.interlog.com> Hi ,my server had me down since june27 and deleted all my msgs. Was I pissed-off !@$#@!@!$ I'm up and running again now. Could anyone please resend any msgs you might have sent me during that time. Thank you. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From mallison at konnections.com Sat Jul 4 16:40:44 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Pamela Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: The Beatles Message-ID: <01BDA762.1C1650A0@ip185-154.konnections.com> Packard Bell had a reputation for making computers with pulled and otherwise used parts. They had a seemingly high failure rate. However, recently NEC bought out Packard Bell and the quality and support improved drastically. I, who would never buy one, bought one for my wife's CAD business. That's what I'm using at the time. No Complaints... Mike ---------- From: Jeff Kaneko Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 8:50 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: The Beatles > > I just found a discarded Packard Bell 486 (I almost left it because the > > case looked like a 286's). I don't know why you all dislike those things > > so much, this case is very good. Anyway, when the machine boots, the ROM > > displays a "Packard Bell" graphic, complete with a 3-second fade-in (if > > only people paid so much attention to _useful_ stuff). Underneath, it > > displays, "America grew up listening to us. It still does." Now, this is > > my question. What does this mean? When was this company founded, and > > what was their original product? > > Packard-Bell, as you see it, is simply not the company it used to be. As > with so many American company names, someone bought the name. > I have no idea what happened to Packard-Bell. They may still be around, > doing defense work, or they may have been swallowed up. The Packard-Bells > at CompUSA, however, are simply not related. The way I seen it, P-B may have been a defence contractor during WWII and later, but their main claim to fame was that for decades, they were one of the biggest manufacturers of Broadcast radios, and Television Sets. I know for a fact they were making TV's (of the humongous console variety in vogue at the time) in the early 70's because I remember an inane TV commercial for it. In the 50's and 60's there were some other major players that manufactured TV's (they actually *made* the stuff): Admiral (my grandmother had one), Motorola, GE, RCA and Zenith. Others were: Pilot, Curtis-Mathes (still around, I think), Hofmann, Westinghouse and a whole bunch of other minor players. Then the Japanese arrived (en force) in the mid 70's, and the next thing we knew thousands of americans were out of work, and no Televisions (or Computer monitors, for that matter) were made domestically. Packard-Bell was one of these victims. I don't know who is behind the resurrection of the P-B brandname. I suspect they wanted to appeal to baby-boomers who fondly remember watching 'Hopalong', 'Cisco' or 'Bonanza' on their parents' Packard Bell console TV. Jeff > > By the way, Packard-Bell has nothing to do with HP. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 16:45:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: The Beatles References: <01BDA762.1C1650A0@ip185-154.konnections.com> Message-ID: <359EA292.6EFC81D3@bbtel.com> Pamela Allison wrote: > Packard Bell had a reputation for making computers with pulled and otherwise used parts. They had a seemingly high failure rate. > > However, recently NEC bought out Packard Bell and the quality and support improved drastically. I, who would never buy one, bought one for my wife's CAD business. That's what I'm using at the time. No Complaints... > I totally forgot about the buyout! That explians a lot of why PB's are more industry standard than they used to be. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 16:01:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807041830.OAA09313@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 4, 98 02:51:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3391 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/4ecf9a2b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 16:03:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704175701.27261.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 10:57:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 562 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980704/8cd13a63/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 17:22:15 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >I think we need to determine if it really is a 120Hz ripple, or something >near it. If it really is 2* mains frequency, then start looking around >the mains smoothing capacitors first. > It's a very simple PSU, there's a bunch of capacitors, a single small chip, and a couple of every other component and that's it. This does not have the power-on from the keyboard thing. It uses a regular button which cuts mains off from the rest of the PSU. Two questions: what is the definiton of a Switch Mode PSU, and what is a Crowbar? >> >> Don't worry about the complex circuit with thround resistors and >> little capacitors, it's working becasuse of that fluttering fan and >> it did power up when you commanded it to turn on by the keyboard. > >Agreed. This doesn't sound like a control circuit problem (although, >having seen some strange SMPSUs in my time I'd not bet my life on it!. A >few, a very few SMPSUs have a separate linear supply for the control >circuit that can inject mains frequency ripple). > > >> >> Jason D. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 4 18:08:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Intellec Series II Microcomputer Development System Message-ID: Well, I finally got to check out the Intel Development System (ISIS?) I got from Las Vegas. On first glance it looks like it had been exposed to the elements. All of the documentation was warped, had water stains, and most of the reference cards were stuck together. I was able to separate most of them without totally damaging the covers, so most of the information on them is still in tact, but some are just plum stuck. What was the method for separating water damaged pages again? Run it through a steamer at a certain humidity or something? Anyway, the main computer unit itself looks OK on the outside, but I couldn't pull any of the multi-bus cards out. They seemed extremely stuck. Its official model number is MDX 225A. The main unit incorporates the CRT, an 8-inch drive mouted vertically next to the CRT, and a 6-slot card cage mounted horizontally underneath the CRT. It has an external keyboard. I also got an MDX 761A1 hard drive sub-system which looks like it will need extensive restoration as it shows most evidence of exposure to moisture. I don't know if it will ever work again or if I'll ever get any data off the 8-inch hard drive but I'll eventually find out. Also included was a Universal Programmer (model IUP 201) with modules for just about every Intel microcontroller and EPROM and whatnot of the day. It was in fine shape. I also received a large grocery bag filled with 8-inch floppies with the system software circa 1981-82. Overall a nice system but it will require some moderate restoration. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 4 18:14:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: looking for HP-11C... Message-ID: <199807042314.AA21847@world.std.com> HI, I have a friend that is looking for an operational HP-11C, it must be the C (engineering model) model. Or if you know a suitable substuitute (must be RPN) please email me off list. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 4 19:07:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 4, 98 03:22:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/cff0ce0a/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 4 23:13:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded Message-ID: <359EFD67.91D056F9@bbtel.com> this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person below: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Barr Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code form? (A long shot, I know). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 3 09:17:03 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 References: <199807030702.AAA03180@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359CE7DF.49654AE6@goldrush.com> > From: Tom Owad > Subject: Re: old AOL disks > > .... (Bill von Meister had been one > >of the founders of The Source which was bought by > >Readers Digest) > > What ever happened to The Source? When did they shut down and why? I think they were bought out by Compuserve (or possibly America On-Line). And they were shut down in favor of their new owner's already existing services. > > > Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home computers with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer wars. :) Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. I still miss the old Electronic Games Magazine that folded in around 1984 or so... One of the few magazines that did good reviews on the home and arcade game machines. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From red at bears.org Sun Jul 5 04:08:30 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980704222216.8411.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 04:39:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 5, 98 05:08:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/a8d73aa6/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 08:26:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: Message-ID: <359F7F02.6FD37CED@bbtel.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > > > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even > > > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know > > > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. > > > > You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > > Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? > No way. Max needs to cut his coffee intake, huh? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 10:46:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry, 120 per minute. Sometimes I wonder if _I_ don't have dried-up capacitors :) >> >> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: >> >> > I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even >> > higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know >> > if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >> >> You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > >Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? >No way. > >> >> ok >> r. >> >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Jul 5 12:48:39 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded In-Reply-To: <359EFD67.91D056F9@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980705104839.00997770@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:13 PM 7/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person >below: >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > >Jeff Barr >Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 > > Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) > for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code > form? > > (A long shot, I know). Yes... any particular form you might want it in? (BTW: it was published in the original construction article) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 12:46:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <359FBBE5.19699061@bbtel.com> Max Eskin wrote: > Sorry, 120 per minute. Sometimes I wonder if _I_ don't have dried-up > capacitors :) Hard to have kids that way Max (grin). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 12:50:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Xpost -Cromenco program meeded References: <3.0.3.32.19980705104839.00997770@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <359FBD01.38A0BD66@bbtel.com> You need to contact the person in need of it directly, his email address is jeff@vertexdev.com I don't even know what a Cromenco is, but I know I've seen hints of it here and there on this list before. James Willing wrote: > At 11:13 PM 7/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >this is a cross post, if you can help him, please contact the person > >below: > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > >Jeff Barr > >Redmond, WA USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 21:47:31 > > > > Does anyone have the Kaleidoscope program (ca. 1977) > > for the Cromemco Dazzler, in source or object code > > form? > > > > (A long shot, I know). > > Yes... any particular form you might want it in? > > (BTW: it was published in the original construction article) > > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 13:03:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: A funny-assed spam Message-ID: I got this spam and thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Please note that there is ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION to the Computer History Association of California (http://www.chac.ORG). This is just a funny coincidence that Kip Crosby warned about. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1998 22:41:23 +1000 From: "H. McDonald" To: Mark Robinson Subject: Re: your support You might like to support the hottest adult entertainment site on the net! You'll be glad you did! http://www.chac.com For the best in live phone sex, call these amature girls. These girls are all amature SanMarino residents, answering your calls many are young students working partime give them a call! From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 13:12:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: CSIRAC page for you Aussie's Message-ID: Here's a web page for the first computer built in Australia: http://www.ug.cs.su.oz.au/~csir1 I also got this e-mail message from John Geremin of the Australian Computer Museum Society that might be of interest to you: Update ! We have been offered a machine from a Power Station that was in operation for 33 years ! (Slow depreciation !!) It was designed by 'BAILEY Controls' around 1960 - uses germanium transistors (maybe they ran out of spares!) and does NOT use CORE. It weighs about 10 tonne and I am currently trying to organise shipping it from Adelaide to Sydney (about 1000 miles). Regards, John G. (aka 'megaJOHN') .. v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v- John Geremin, PDP-11 Support Consultant, MEGATRONICS, 018-406 365. John Geremin, Treasurer, Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc. ( ACMS web page at http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/ ) IN%"geremin@decus.org.au" or fax: 61-2- 9764 4679 (24 hours) -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ --- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From rax at warbaby.com Sun Jul 5 15:02:18 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 5.25 Disk Sleeves Message-ID: Y'all probably know about this site, but if you don't it's worth a visit. It's a humongous collection of 5.25 floppy sleeves: http://www.cyberden.com/sleeves/ R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:14:19 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <19980705211419.7398.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, today I got around to testing MS-DOS disk images from the PDP-8 archive on the DECMAte III. It read the disk, said "Starting MS-DOS...", but then said, "XPU Board Error". It then entered a configuration menu for the DECMate (cursor, baud, etc.). What is an XPU board? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Sun Jul 5 16:21:58 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19980705145052.0f31aac1.in@mail.pressstart.com> >> * Dysan 3740/2D, Double sided, Double density, format: >> 128 bytes/26 sectors, index 1 & 2. >Those are soft sectored. How are the holes in the jacket positioned? If >they're symmetrical about a centre line, then it's a flippy disk. If >they're both on the same side of the centre line, then it's a double >sided disk that can also be used in single-sided drives - rare, and they >confuse some DS drives. > Well to be more exact, looking at the disk (label side up) with the disk access window at 6 0'clock, one index hole would be at 12:15 and the other would be at 1:00. They are to one side of center and very close together. So I guess these are not flippy disks. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 16:23:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705154602.26371.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 08:46:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/ecdd4544/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 17:15:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8" hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19980705145052.0f31aac1.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Jul 5, 98 02:21:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/32ba5ca2/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 17:54:27 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: (Xpost) Computers to new home Message-ID: <35A00422.406ACFD3@bbtel.com> Someone in the UK, Germany, France or any other close place may want to take advantage of this. Contact the person "Trig" at his/her address at demon.co.uk, not me..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trig Salisbury, Wilts U.K. - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 17:15:08 I have a small collection of 10 - 15yr old apricots, xen, xi and various other related bits. Can anyone help me find a home for these cute computers? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 18:09:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it unfortunately. The UK guys will be able to clue me in right away I'm sure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:09:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705230914.16427.qmail@hotmail.com> Does that make the solution more complicated? There are about 20 little capacitors, packed like mushrooms. Are you sure it can't be anything else? BTW, if I later unplug it, the fan spins back up again. Maybe I could just disable whatever shuts the thing down? (I'm somewhat squeamish about spending two hours checking each and every capacitor with a hot soldering iron - that'll _really_ dry out my capacitors :) >Aha... 2Hz.... > >Forget all we've said about mains filtering... > >Sounds like the PSU is starting up, detecting a problem, shutting down, etc. >Start by testing/replacing all the output-side electrolytics. They'll be >1000uF-4700uF (I guess), connected (electrically) close to the output >connections, and have voltage ratings <25V. > >On the grounds it works OK off-load, it's unlikely to be any of the other >capacitors in the unit... > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 18:27:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Help figuring out these boards Message-ID: I brought home some keen boards the other day. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out what I've got. Firstly, a 4K HP memory board. Part number 02640-60065(?) Date codes are 76-77. Its a long card about 12", and has the edge connector in the center of the board. Looks like it goes into a 98xx series machine? NeXT, I got this NeXT prototyping board. It has the NeXT logo, about 40,000 holes for putting components into, an edge connector with all the pins labelled (presumably goes into the NeXT bus?) and it looks like someone was trying to build something on this. It has a bunch of logic and resistors and some dip switches and 8 LEDs. Looks like a bus monitor or data monitor of some sorts. Too lazy to type up any of the 74xx numbers so never mind. I'll figure this out eventually. And now, the MAI Basic/Four board set. I found these in the same place I found the two items above. This guy was selling a whole set of random boards. So anyway, here's what I found (the number in parenthesis is the Board Detail number): High Speed DMA (904193) Adapter Bus (902211) [connected to the High Speed DMA with a ribbon cable] Terminal Controller x2 (901420) Formatter Bus (901920) Unidentified board (has a bunch of logic...looks like a disk or tape controller) Jumper Board - Carthridge Tape Controller (904049) [basically an 8.5"x11" PCB with nothing but three traces cross-connecting edge connector pins!] 19-slot backplane No CPU board, so I don't have a complete system. It'd be cool to find the rest of this someday. Piece by piece I suppose I will, as today I picked up a Basic/Four keyboard that apparently went with a Basic/Four terminal for free. The guy I got it from said he'd ask the guy he got it from if he has the rest of it or anything else Basic/Four. I've asked about this before I think, but what is the Basic/Four? Isn't it some early 80s mini? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:23:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705230914.16427.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:09:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/88c97c4f/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 5 18:35:16 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <35A00DB4.17C4@geocities.com> this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! -Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:34:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:05 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 5, 98 04:09:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2483 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/51f0be14/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Jul 5 18:41:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980705194121.006ba2f0@netpath.net> Works fine. You can even run a mono/herc card in the same machine with a color display adapter (CGA/EGA/VGA). Just use the mode command to switch between them in DOS, forget what to use in Linux. Type "mode mono" display switches to the mono monitor Type "mode co80" and the display switches to 80x25 color mode on the VGA. At 06:35 PM 7/5/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga >etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish >system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux >term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like >that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! > >-Eric > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:37:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? In-Reply-To: <35A00DB4.17C4@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 5, 98 06:35:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 803 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/8389464a/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:46:14 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. >Desoldering 20 capacitors and replacing them will take < 1 hour! > >There are other faults which cause the PSU to trip, but most of them >cause it to fail on light load as well. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:54:06 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <19980705235406.6818.qmail@hotmail.com> I would be surprised if it doesn't have MDA or CGA card type. I haven't seen one that doesn't. All Phoenix and Award BIOSes do for sure. I'm not certain about custom BIOSes which are becoming very abundant these days. >I would hope modern BIOSes would include the drivers for MDA and CGA >cards, since they were part of the IBM BIOS. A machine that doesn't can't >claim to be IBM compatible IMHO. On the other hand, having found so many >old features are missing from modern machines, I'd not bet on it. > >> >> -Eric >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From poesie at geocities.com Sun Jul 5 19:01:53 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: <3.0.32.19980705194121.006ba2f0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A013F1.6863@geocities.com> thanks guys! John Higginbotham wrote: > > Works fine. You can even run a mono/herc card in the same machine with From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 5 18:52:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:46:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/120eec0a/attachment.ksh From cad at gamewood.net Sun Jul 5 19:15:20 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? References: Message-ID: <35A01718.37B@gamewood.net> Sam Ismail wrote: > > Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make > out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. > It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. > It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a > handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's > somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says > "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it > unfortunately. > > The UK guys will be able to clue me in right away I'm sure. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 06/11/98] Hi Sam: IIRC the 'Apricot' is a domestic (USA) Apple clone/look alike/work alike. If you don't find any better info, hollar, and I'll go through some of my Byte/Kilobaud/InformationAge etc. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 5 19:21:08 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 5 19:19:16 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Help figuring out these boards In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail's message of Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT) References: Message-ID: <199807060019.RAA10808@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > Firstly, a 4K HP memory board. Part number 02640-60065(?) Date codes are > 76-77. Its a long card about 12", and has the edge connector in the > center of the board. Looks like it goes into a 98xx series machine? 4K RAM for a 264X terminal. -Frank McConnell From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 5 19:46:57 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <199807060046.AA18073@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I've asked about this before I think, but what is the Basic/Four? Isn't > it some early 80s mini? MAI Basic/Four was the name of a software company in Tustin, CA. I think they also made hardware, including some PC clones, to run their software, but they were mostly known for their BASIC and O/S, AFAIK. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:20:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: Message-ID: <35A02641.F3B9D645@bbtel.com> The newest machines run 8 bit cards without a hitch. I test mda, herc, cga, ega, etc on a Pentium all the time. The tricky thing is to test an 8 bit hard card on one, the cmos on some goes nuts. I just put an external Sony CDROM with an 8 bit proprietary interface card in a 486DX-50 for a local guy last week. Tony Duell wrote: > > > > this is newer, but i have several 8bit vid cards and assorted mono/cga > > etc type monitors. can i plug in one of those cards in a modernish > > system and realistically use it for a display? just need dos & linux > > term capabilities, but I'm not sure whether or not the system will like > > that, etc. any input here would be very helpful. thanks! > > I know _for a fact_ that Linux will use an MDA card. I'm using one now. > And I believe it'll use a CGA card - the sources certainly imply it. > > I would hope modern BIOSes would include the drivers for MDA and CGA > cards, since they were part of the IBM BIOS. A machine that doesn't can't > claim to be IBM compatible IMHO. On the other hand, having found so many > old features are missing from modern machines, I'd not bet on it. > > > > > -Eric > > > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:24:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Inport Mice needed Message-ID: <35A02765.372A9DDB@bbtel.com> Ok I have a scrounge run to accomplish (again). I am in need of from 1 to 3 Microsoft InPort mice as I have the cards for them, no mice (meeces). Anyone got one (or 2, 3) to sell, trade, or "donate"?? No hurry but soon. Reply by direct email please... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 20:29:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU References: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A02894.96C71CB9@bbtel.com> If you do decide to undo the components, either get a "solder sucker" that vacuums the solder off the heated joint or a desoldering iron, a soldering iron that has a hollow tip and a suction bulb that draws off the solder once it's hot. Desoldering wick is a pain right in the..... Radio Shack has the desoldering irons, maybe even the solder sucker. I know they have wick, I pass by it everytime I'm in a RS store. Make sure of the caps you're undoing first though, some hold a good charge and can brighten your day whether you want them to or not. Discharge the bigger ones before messing with them, if you even decide to work on it. Max Eskin wrote: > I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. > And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. > > >Desoldering 20 capacitors and replacing them will take < 1 hour! > > > >There are other faults which cause the PSU to trip, but most of them > >cause it to fail on light load as well. > > > >-tony > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DGoodwin at smcvt.edu Sun Jul 5 22:20:17 1998 From: DGoodwin at smcvt.edu (Dave Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? Message-ID: <455BFB014181D1119BCB00805F578DF00224EB32@shadow.smcvt.edu> Hi Christian, Get any takers yet? I might be interested in one of the PDP 11 machines, or the VAX 750 if you don't want it. Maybe the VAX 730 but that's a bit iffy. Drop me a note and let me know. Dave > ---------- > From: Christian Fandt[SMTP:cfandt@servtech.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: July 03, 1998 6:05 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: DEC Bonanza! Anybody want a system?? > > Okay gang, here's the story: > > A week ago on Wednesday I literally stumbled across a Usenet advertisement > listing a VAX 11/750, PDP's, etc available for sale. It was *nearby*! > (Well, 50 miles is 'close' compared to any other DEC classics I've seen > for > sale.) And it was in what is generally considered an even more backwater > area in north-western Pennsylvania! I therefore humbly apologize for the > rant a couple of weeks ago stating that virtually nothing of interest to > me > is available around me. > > To make a short story long, I contacted him regarding buying any RT-11 > documentation he may have plus I made an offer on the hardware listed. He > replied saying my offer was acceptable (Great! :-)). Plus, he said he had > more stuff available. We talked on the phone and he mentioned another > system available. Yet other hardware was put into my pile. When I got > there, and after he had a chance to go thru a storage room, more hardware! > > Well, yesterday (3 July) I took a rental truck with a 15' x 7.5' box and > my > uncle, who's in town for the holiday, to pickup the gear. Only truck > available in the area amongst 8 rental truck shops. I thought it might be > more than large enough. I came back home with that thing actually > *stuffed* > full, all for my original bid. NOW there probably is nothing of interest > left around my area . > > We spent about 6.5 hours loading the stuff. Hauled down from second floor > via elevator, through building and down a sidewalk to parking lot. Thank > Heaven the truck had a hydraulic lift gate. Took 2.5 hours to offload into > the garage. > > Now I have two problems: > > 1. My wife. She was not too happy with how the amount of equipment grew > from what was originally expected. Can you blame her? > > 2. My garage. It now is completely full! We've just moved into that house > on 28 March. Beverly wants to park her Jeep in the garage. (See problem > #1) > > Why did I take such a large amount of equipment? The person selling had no > other persons seriously interested. Somebody wanted the uVAX but never > followed through to close a deal. Recall I said that this was a really > backwater area. Nobody like us types in ClassicCmp around there for sure > even though he advertised the DEC stuff in the area newspapers, as I > understand him saying, in addition to at least several newsgroups > (pgh.forsale is the one I stumbled onto while searching DejaNews for > anything about RT-11). He had to close out his offices because he's > located > in California now. Obviously could not take the DEC stuff with him as > you'll understand from the list below. He and his wife are going back home > to California Monday or Tuesday. > > > Therefore, the dumpster would be the final location of this equipment. > > So, this has turned into one of those Classic Computer Rescues to which > some of the members of this list dedicate themselves. > > Problem number 3: I cannot keep everything (again, check the length and > content of the list below and problem #1 above). This is where you folks > can help! > > So, please contact me to come and get some of this equipment for > yourselves > or others. This is urgent as I need to clear out the garage again. > > We got done unloading just before dark last night. Today, I made just a > quick list of major pieces to post. Had NO time yet to look at stuff > further. > > Here's the list. See notes below list. > > 1. VAX 11/750-CA > 2. TU80 and RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. > 3. RA81 in short rack, p/o the 750. > 4. PDP-11/24 with two RL02s in short rack. > 5. PDP-11/34A > 6. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. > 7. RK07 in short rack, p/o -11/34A. > 8 VAX 11/730-CA. Covers off chassis, may not work. > 9. PDP-11/34 in 6'rack w/TS03 and RL01-A. > 10. RK07 in short rack. > 11. RK07-PA rack (rack only) > 12. RK07 not in rack. Said to possibly not work. > 13. RA60-AA in short rack. > 14. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. > 15. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside. > 16. BA-11 chassis, with several boards inside in a short rack. > 17. 1-LP25 Band Printer > 18. 3 units: Decwriter III (LA120? gotta check this) > 19. 1-Decwriter II > 20. 4 units: VT100 terminals > 21. 1-VT220 terminal > 23. 2-ADM 11 terminals > 24. RL02, no rack. > 25. RL02, no rack. > 26. RL02, no rack. > 27. RL02, no rack, marked "Bad?". > 28. RL01-A, no rack. > 29. RX02-BA, no rack. > > 30. RL02 in short rack w/some sort of Genigraphics chassis. > 31. MicroPDP-11 > 32. MicroVAX II > 33. Empty 6' rack from old -11/34, labeled Model H960-CF. > 34. Empty 6' rack from something else, labeled Model SM-30LLA-LA. > 35. Bunches of tapes for the various systems. I gotta sort through them > first! > 36. Bunches of RL01 and RL02 disc paks. Several RK07 paks. I gotta sort > through them! > 37. 7' tall tape storage rack. > 38. About 10 to 15 shelf-feet of DEC documentation. > 39. Bunch of spare Unibus and Q-bus boards. > > End. > > Notes: > * I refer to 'short rack' or simply 'rack' as the one which is about 4' > tall. Same styling as VAX cabinet, etc. as some of you already know. > > * The -11/34A, -11/24 and 750 booted okay the day before. > > * I'm still so tired. > > * Types of boards in BA-11's and assembled machines are not listed. Will > do > that when time available or opportunity offers a chance. > > * Same for the bunch of spare boards. > > Now before calling me, I must state the following for you to know up > front: > > ** The uVAX and uPDP are staying here! Beverly thinks they are just fine > (as in 'small' ). > > ** One OR two of the bigger systems I want to keep. Don't know which, but > the 750, 11/24, 6-foot 11/34 and 11/34A are in the running for being my > choice along with their appropriate peripherals. I'm asking for advice > from > the DEC gurus in the group on this by private email if you can. Don't > clutter up the list with the advice unless you feel it is necessary to get > opinions. > > **NO documentation will be let go unless it is redundant. That was the > original reason for checking this sale out. I got the RT-11 docs I was > hunting for anyway. > > ** I need to: first sort through the documentation; next organize the > original systems and their spares; finally evaluate what I want to keep. > There will be questions posted here as I've never owned DEC hardware up to > now. I've just been aware of DEC for years and have listened to the many > informative technical discussions here (but I never *retained* much of it > in my mind since I never had any hardware/software to practice it on! Now > there's suddenly a garage-full. Go figure!) Be aware that I'll need help > and may unintentionally come across as a 'newbie', so be nice. I have to > work quickly at resolving this but do not have very many DEC-related URLs > or other reference sources lined up yet. (Send me yours!) > > ** Plan on taking the rest as soon as you can get one or more "Rescue > Brigades" arranged. > > Just pitch-in a few bucks to help with part of my costs (only paid a > little > over 400 dollars for everything *including* truck rental and diesel fuel, > ibuprofin, Coca Cola). Will consider horsetrading. > > ** _Please_ do not hesitate calling me at our home number below 09:00 to > 21:30 this weekend. We have an answering machine if we are outside the > house. We will not be traveling as we have relatives visiting. If you > _really_ have to, you may call me at my office on workdays but I am often > rather busy in other parts of the manufacturing areas. If you *really, > really* have to call during the work day and need to talk to me, my wife > works at the same company and can take the message. Ask for Beverly, phone > 716.661.1843. But try to call the house and find me or leave message > first. > BTW: Don't let Bev tell you to come take _everything_ while I'm at work! > Email is okay too, but I will not be able to read it until sometime > Monday or Tuesday. > > It all has to be out of the garage as soon as possible. Bev is very > understandably kinda pissed off. It's payback time for me. I am not too > happy with the garage either but I could NOT bear to see this stuff > dumpstered. As it was, I had to leave one LP26 Band Printer behind. There > was only exactly one to three inches of space, depending upon which point > you checked, left for the truck door to be pulled down. Truck was piled up > to my height (6', 0"), and even higher in spots. > > Forgive my long message. I'm rather tired and a bit sore yet which causes > me to not be concise or able to organize my thinking well. > > Thanks for helping me rescue DEC equipment. > > --Chris > -- -- > ======================================================= > Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > 31 Houston Avenue, WE Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home > Jamestown, New York +716-661-1832 -Office > 14701-2627 USA Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax > email: cfandt@servtech.com > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980705/4d0a52e6/attachment.html From gzozman at escape.ca Sun Jul 5 22:52:35 1998 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Help Needed References: <35A02765.372A9DDB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35A04A03.E25612D3@escape.ca> My Kaypro 10 Hard Drive has begun to give me some problems lately; the drive itself is failing; there are too many bad sectors when I try to re-format. The present drive is a Tandon TM502 (MFM, 305 cyls, 4 heads). I picked up a couple Seagate ST-412 drives as replacements, but am having trouble getting the Kaypro to talk to either of them. As far as I understand, they are the same specs as the Tandon, but when I try to run the format program (K10HDFMT.COM), it reports a "Drive Not Ready" error. There is a terminating resistor pack on the Seagate drives. There is also a DIP package with jumpers on it, three of which have been cut. My question is this: are there any physical jumpers which need to be set correctly on the drive or the Kaypro, or is there a "Setup" utility which must be run? Any info on the purpose of the straps on the ST-412 would be very helpful. If there is a more appropriate forum for Kaypro troubleshooting, I would appreciate knowing where to go; I haven't been able to turn anything up except a few web pages of people who have Kaypros in their collections. Thanks! From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Jul 5 17:36:00 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: c64 information References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <359FFFD0.93A49E2E@goldrush.com> >From: CharlesII@nwonline.net >Subject: c64 information >Do any of you folks know of any electronic recorces for teaching >yourself how to program the c64? You can find the text of the Commodore 64 Programmer's Refernece Guide as well as other Commodore 64 related books at Project 64: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcgeek/proj64.htm Also you can get BASIC and Machine Language tutorial programs that run on the 64 at: http://207.26.226.221/pub/cbm/ and http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Jul 5 17:54:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A00418.CB1591A4@goldrush.com> > From: Russ Blakeman > Subject: Re: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) > > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet > > chicks!! > > > > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! > > Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the > hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 5 23:12:21 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! References: <199807040702.AAA24614@lists5.u.washington.edu> <35A00418.CB1591A4@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35A04EA4.E578A339@bbtel.com> Larry Anderson wrote: > Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was > in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though > she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). > > Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* I met mine on a litter detail on base when we both were wearing olive drab and gettiing paid what seemed like slave labor, but neither of us enjoy doing the "buttholes and elbows" litter pickup. I must admit though that unlike the trash we grabbed, I haven't thrown her out, nor her me (yet). If I don't get our dining room visible again soon I may be building a shelter out of old computer units.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 6 00:34:03 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Help Needed In-Reply-To: <35A04A03.E25612D3@escape.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Grant Zozman wrote: > My Kaypro 10 Hard Drive has begun to give me some problems lately; the > drive itself is failing; there are too many bad sectors when I try to > re-format. The present drive is a Tandon TM502 (MFM, 305 cyls, 4 heads). > > I picked up a couple Seagate ST-412 drives as replacements, but am having > trouble getting the Kaypro to talk to either of them. As far as I > understand, they are the same specs as the Tandon, but when I try to run > the format program (K10HDFMT.COM), it reports a "Drive Not Ready" error. > There is a terminating resistor pack on the Seagate drives. There is also > a DIP package with jumpers on it, three of which have been cut. Be sure that the drive is set for DS2 (not DS1) as you are using the second drive position on the bridge controller for the 20-lead ribbon cable. The one that you want jumpered is the next-nearest to the edge connector on the card. See 'sketch' following: __ __ U R NC NC NC DS4 DS3 DS2 <--- This one! DS1 _____ ____ _______ | | | | | | | | | > My question is this: are there any physical jumpers which need to be set > correctly on the drive or the Kaypro, or is there a "Setup" utility which > must be run? Any info on the purpose of the straps on the ST-412 would be > very helpful. Setting the DS value properly should do it for you. > If there is a more appropriate forum for Kaypro troubleshooting, I would > appreciate knowing where to go; I haven't been able to turn anything up > except a few web pages of people who have Kaypros in their collections. > > Thanks! > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sun Jul 5 21:23:40 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: References: <19980705234614.23579.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 5, 98 04:46:14 pm Message-ID: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:52:46 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > > > > > > I'm a novice at soldering - I've made at most 10 connections in my life. > > Well, then, changing all those capacitors is good practice :-) > Nodding... True...Max, practise on junkers first. Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way most of time usually has none of scr or clamp downs to block overvoltage, the PWM ic usually '494 and LM339 monitors the output voltages. Remove the main transformer and check all diodes for dead shorts and leaky capacitors ONLY in the output side, about 6 or 8 diodes and few large 470uF or 330uf or so in 12V part and larger ones for the 5V part. The fan jumping was the switcher ic trying to spin the transformer into one of the short circuit but switcher also have self-protection circuits kept it from spinning until main power is removed. Don't be fooled, at least 2 diode pairs are in two "transistors" casings, but there's markings that looks like two diodes back to back. Both of those "trannies" are always mounted on heatsink. One is large for 5V and one looks like TO-220 case for 12V and few discrate diodes for negative voltages rated at very low currents, sometimes taps off the -12VDC via a regulator on tiny heatsink of all itself to drive the -5VDC. I'm certain this PSU of yours has no "Power Good" wire, that is controlled by same LM339 that monitors all 4 voltages or usually 2 voltage levels and come up on power good wire in delayed fashion after all the voltages is up. > Seriously, Please, Please read the sci.electronics.repair FAQs before > you get started. That's http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ . There are > dangerous voltages in there. At least read the safety notes and the notes > on SMPSUs. Excellent beginner info to surf. Go there. :) But this does not beat the info if you really trace out where all the outputs out on that PSU and pick out most likely components to check with your meter and catch the baddie red-handed. Pure joy when that happens! :) Before I got the ESR, I had to play the game of who's is bad on either caps or semis or both. Sometimes I just go out and swap all the outputs caps right there and there. :) But now that I got ESR meter, the worry is over and this is a MUST to have because the cost is so cheap. Get one from "Bob Parker's" DSE's ESR meter kit from under and to the left without a second thought. > > > And, there is the looking for replacements, possibly buying them. > > Which takes the same time for 20 as for 1 :-). I sometimes forget that we're > lucky in the UK in that there are a number of companies who sell > components across the counter. Here there's a Maplin about 30 minutes > away by public transport, another one about an hour away, Grandata (TV > spares) aren't too far, etc. And having bought components many times in > the past I know where to look for them. Bragging rights/Boasting aside, I had to use my friends contacts to obtain very specific components and rely heavily on subs. :-( Boo hiss. :) > > -tony Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 6 02:56:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 12 and II free to good home? Where was that posted? Message-ID: Someone the other day posted a message they got from the Usenet concerning some lady in Hayward, CA giving away some Radio Shack TRS-80s. I thought I wrote the number down correctly but when I called this old lady who could barely hear answered and said I got the wrong number. Could you e-mail me privately with that message if you still have it or know where to find it? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From desieh at southcom.com.au Mon Jul 6 02:59:00 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! Message-ID: <000801bda8b3$eff0f400$c8173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> email: desieh@southcom.com.au desieh@bigfoot.com museum_curator@hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm Well they dont here in Australia..........most of my friends think i very weird............ also i dont have chicks falling at my feet when i carrying home a XT or some other piece of vintage computer hardware, mostly i get looks of "what a idiot" or "thats funney" oh well Desie -----Original Message----- From: Larry Anderson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 1:54 Subject: Re: Chicks Love Classic Computerists! >> From: Russ Blakeman >> Subject: Re: what cost profit? (philosophical rant but slightly on topic) >> >> Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> > Well, I don't know about you guys, but I collect computers so I can meet >> > chicks!! >> > >> > Oh yeah! They dig this stuff. Really! >> >> Yeah, right Sam. You tell them to show you their floppies and then you bring ou the >> hard drive right? Or do all these chicks look like Janet Reno? > >Case in point I met my wife, Daine, via my Commodore-64 BBS network, (She was >in Louisiana, I in California) she appreciated my taste in computers (though >she says she was somewhat leary cause I had an Amiga 500 system as well). > >Yep, some chicks dig classic computers. *grin* >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- >Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 >Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 08:43:38 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 Message-ID: <199807061130.NAA11886@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? > In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game > PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular > cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were > probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox > (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of > game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... > Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home computers > with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started > capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video > games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard > and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer wars. :) > Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. Oh, and don't forget all the lame me-to companies who started bussines in 1983/84 and stoped even before the product was final developen - And do you still remember the even more lame cpmpanies who foget to cancel their product right away, when anybody was yelling 'Video Dames are Dead - Long Live the Home Computer' ? One of them I think was a smaal playing card manufacturer called Nintendo. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon Jul 6 07:10:35 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <004c01bda8d7$1544b020$c23ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Sam Ismail wrote: >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > What is this, some sort of trick question? 8" screen chicklet keyboard tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard Hans From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 09:55:28 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <199807061242.OAA17612@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> I counted with a stopwatch. It beat very fast, so it might be even >>> higher than 120Hz, but it certainly is much higher than 60. I don't know >>> if they'll actually let me do this repair anyway. >> You counted 120 cycles per second with a _stopwatch_? > Yes, I wondered about that. 120 per minute is understandable, but 120Hz? > No way. Shure - take a 60 (or 50) Hz clock feed the signal and stop the time neded to show a minute (or 10 minutes to get fractions) - or take any other steping device and look at the stepping speed - This way you could even use an old Apple DISK ][ as a counting device - put it on track 30, hook up the signal and wait until it reaches track zero - you'll get an acustic feedback - now its just finger calculations. Servus H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 07:59:38 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <19980706125938.28730.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I have a board with a z8000 on it, is that the same? What OS would these things run natively? >You must have the XPU (8088) board installed, or it's dead. For >DECmateIII those are scarce. > >More common is the APU (z80) board that runs CP/M-80. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Jul 6 08:29:00 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? Also, can someone point me in the direction of a listing/description of the Apple //gs Toolbox commands. I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 08:55:53 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <19980706135556.4545.qmail@hotmail.com> The Mac Portable uses a special kind of hard drive. A normal SCSI won't work, and I don't think a powerbook hard drive will either. There is a company that sells Mac Portable upgrades, but their prices are ridiculous. Everything is in the triple digits. I'm not sure if they had any original parts. Their hard drive solution was an adapter board for more common drives. You should be able to find it via newsgroups or something. As for the C64, they may have confused it with a 'c', which is the later beige model. > I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more >PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard >drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. > > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > > Thanks! > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 12:07:40 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807061454.QAA28237@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make >> out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. >> It has a male DB-9 video connector and a female DB-9 keyboard connector. >> It also has a DB-25 serial and an Amphenol parallel connector. It has a >> handle that you can pull out of the case from the front, so I guess it's >> somewhat portable. It has two 3.5" drives in the front. It simply says >> "Apricot" between them. No keyboard or display so I can't boot it >> unfortunately. > IIRC the 'Apricot' is a domestic (USA) Apple clone/look alike/work > alike. > If you don't find any better info, hollar, and I'll go through some of > my Byte/Kilobaud/InformationAge etc. I think it sounds a lot more like this fine early MS-DOS / CP/M-86 Computers from Apricot. Non-IBM-HW-compatible systems with a very nice and smooth design (compared to them, still (almost) any new computer looks like 1950's techniks). 3.5" FD way before IBM, and cute keyboards, mice, and even track balls. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Ferock at aol.com Mon Jul 6 10:05:07 1998 From: Ferock at aol.com (Ferock@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Old Catalogs & Equip. Message-ID: I am interested in old (1980-1987) computer catalogs. I'm especially interested in BlackBox catalogs. I also am interested in acquiring old (1980-1987) computer connectors. Specifically, connectors that have their own housing and are used to connect two external devices. These connectors have circuity that converts the data, e.g. serial to parallel conversion or changing signal voltage. The VicModem is an early example of such a device. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Glenn Ferock@aol.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 10:06:14 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: I think I'm going to be sick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706100614.00c14660@pc> At 08:07 AM 7/3/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >I asked the employees what had happened to all that 'old computer junk', >and was told that it had all been THROWN OUT LAST WEEK. >I'm feeling really depressed about this. >Well DAMN THEM TO HELL, and damn ME for not being more vigilant. >Dammit, I wish I had dragged ALL the stuff I wanted to the desk and paid >for it, and had them sit it in a back room until I could come back for it. >Dammit, I wish there had been some sort of warning. All I can say is that it doesn't hurt to tell everyone you meet that you're interested in old, junky computers, the kind that you're about to throw out, the ones that can't run Windows. :-) Tell everyone in the store. Tell them three times, three different ways. Leave your card. Leave an extra six cards. Write "Likes Old Computer Junk" on the front of each. This will at least improve your odds of avoiding this depression in the future. In their defense, they exist to attempt to sell the stuff they get. If it's not selling, what else are they supposed to do? If you want to be sad, ask to see what they cull at the start of the pipeline, when they perform triage as items are donated. I get similarly upset at the triage performed at the my favorite local junk spot, the University of Wisconsin -- Madison Surplus sale, as judged by what I find in the dumpster, and the condition and organization of what I see in the sale area. The almighty PC reigns, but are stripped and separated into bins: keyboards here, monitors there, cases here, spare cards here, manuals over there. I've found two of my Teraks in this shape: main unit separated from extra disk drive separated from monitor and keyboard, and any ancillary docs are long-gone. In the dumpster goes anything not easily identifiable as PC or office equipment, but they're quite lax about that, too - I've seen laser printers and faxes only a few years old tossed, along with desks and chairs that aren't stylish enough to sell quickly. If I ran the zoo! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 09:57:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <19980703193515.05e8f011.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706095710.00f5f410@pc> At 07:06 PM 7/3/98 -0700, Doug Coward wrote: > BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. >Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and >sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and >going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids >were playing video games too much. The fad was over. > Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. >Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. I was writing games for a computer music company with several C-64 titles at the time, and it was my impression that the software market disappeared once people figured out they could pirate their friend's software, instead of buying it. That, and the way that Christmas always affects sales, and the way people quickly tired of the abilities of their cheap computer. - John From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Jul 6 11:29:32 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <01IZ2Q7LU5DUB2BJU0@cc.usu.edu> > Well, today I got around to testing MS-DOS disk images from the PDP-8 > archive on the DECMAte III. It read the disk, said "Starting MS-DOS...", > but then said, "XPU Board Error". It then entered a configuration menu > for the DECMate (cursor, baud, etc.). What is an XPU board? The XPU board is an add-in board which contains an 8088. The 8088 is used to run MS-DOS. Without the XPU board, you can't run MS-DOS. The APU board is an add-in board which contains a Z80. It's used for running CP/M. I'm a bit lucky in that I have an APU board for all of my DECmates (although OS/8 is a fine operating system, CP/M is home sweet home). Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 6 10:34:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What > program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the > built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? Well, you had many to choose from. Probably the most popular was Merlin by Roger Wagner. You also had the Apple's EDASM, and there was the LISA Assembler (no relation to the computer), Big Mac Assembler, Assyst, ORCA/M, probably a few others. Then of course there was the Sweet-16 mini-assembler built into the ROMs of the Apple ][ (not ][+ or //e). It finally reappeared in one of the later ]['s, but I can't remember which (the //c+ perhaps?) I did all my coding by poking bytes from the monitor. Its how I learned and its the only way I ever felt comfortable with even though using an assembler would have saved me countless hours. But I never liked any of the assemblers (and I had all the ones I mentioned above). > Also, can someone point me in the direction of a listing/description of > the Apple //gs Toolbox commands. Oooh, boy. I think that would take up several hundred K of information. You need to go out and find the Toolbox reference manuals. I know I have at least one volume, of which I believe there were three or so. > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where > a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm positive its just a plain old C64. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98] From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 6 10:36:05 1998 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Infos Draco - what is this? In-Reply-To: <199807060702.AAA18119@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hi! I chanced upon a strange thing in a thrift shop today. A hand-held terminal of some sort called Infos Draco. It was rather expensive (SEK 250) so I never considered buying it, but I wonder what it is. The case is mainly blue with some yellow and red details. Keyboard is in ABCDE (rather than QWERTY) fashion. The longest side is approximately 10" and it is shaped like an L turned up-side-down with a 40x8 character LCD screen on top. There are no manuals but the box seems to indicate Italian origin. It seems to run on batteries but can be plugged into the wall as well (standard Swedish 220V plug). There is also a phone connection and what appears to be a parallel port. I tried to start the thing, but only succeeded in a red light coming on and a happy beep when I pushed the ON button. What is it? What can it be used for? Does anyone want me to buy it for you? /F From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 11:08:26 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: References: <006701bda8e2$69c2eee0$1481fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> At 08:34 AM 7/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is >clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm >positive its just a plain old C64. I know this was brought up before, but I never heard a clear answer: What's the difference between a C64 and a C64c, apart from the C128-ish case design on the C64c? I heard rumors that it had better sound chips or something, and all the Commodore dealers (not many left) that I have seen advertise the C64c for about 20% more than the standard C64. From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 11:44:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: ZDS planar type memory board FS/Trade Message-ID: <35A0FEE4.1D6C9B13@bbtel.com> I have a memory board for a planar type ZDS machine, came out of a Z248. This one is the newer type that has four SIMM sockets on it, uses 30 pin SIMMS. There is no memory installed, just the card itself, works great. Goes into the special 32 bit type slots like the CPU, IO and other type memory cards do on planar units. Not sure how many types of ZDS units this will work in. Need $15 for it which includes shipping in the 48 conus states. Will consider trades of equal value cards for ISA, VLB, PCI or even MCA slots, but please no network cards. Will also trade for one or two Microsoft InPort mice, without the cards since I have them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Jul 6 11:49:35 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> Message-ID: The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do 3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new chip revision. Dan On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:34 AM 7/6/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is > >clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm > >positive its just a plain old C64. > > I know this was brought up before, but I never heard a clear answer: > > What's the difference between a C64 and a C64c, apart from the C128-ish > case design on the C64c? > > I heard rumors that it had better sound chips or something, and all the > Commodore dealers (not many left) that I have seen advertise the C64c for > about 20% more than the standard C64. > > > From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:11:39 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807061658.SAA04929@marina.fth.sbs.de> > There's a mainboard flat in the bottom of the case. It contains an 8086, > between 128K and 960K of RAM (there are 2 versions of the board...), > optional 8087 copro, and an 8089 I/O processor One of the vew designs, that (tried) to uitlize the fill power of the 86-family. In faxt: today everybody is moaning about the 'crude' x86 structure (but using it) and nobody temembers that the CPU was only one single part of the design. A design ready to build high efficient and fast computers for multi programming operating systems (Unix et. al.) > (very fancy DMA chip). Thats like naming the Newton a fancy post it thing. The 8089 was a full featured CPU, just with an special command set suited for I/O operations. Anything from serial I/O via disk I/O up to code translations could done in a very smooth and genuine way. Just imagine that the HW depending part of any device driver would run on a seperate CPU - including all the time consuming puffer/unpuffer, notifications, polling and what-ever operations. The 86, 87 and 89 are three independend microprocessors suited for special tasks (asymetric multiprocessing). Today the x87 is reduced to an additional fp register set, the 89 is forgoten and everybody aplaudes the symetric processing hype :( Just think what kind of computing could be possible if this sceme had worked out - need more float ? just add some FPUs! need a lot of I/O ? add anoter IOC... Need huge 3D power? Add some 'MMX' processors and not just some new commands for the same old FPU. Think I should stop. Gruss H. /370 Veteran P.S.: The Apricot is still a white spot in my collection. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:13:18 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: DECmate III Message-ID: <199807061659.SAA05042@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Well, I have a board with a z8000 on it, is that the same? What OS would > these things run natively? Xenix ? At least there have been some ports. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 12:07:19 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980706130719.00949470@netpath.net> At 11:49 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with >an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do >3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise >channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new >chip revision. Ack. I hope those dealers I mentioned before aren't marking up the price just because the c64c looks more like a c128... From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:25:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <199807061711.TAA05628@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What >> program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the >> built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? > Well, you had many to choose from. Probably the most popular was > Merlin by Roger Wagner. You also had the Apple's EDASM, and there > was the LISA Assembler (no relation to the computer), Big Mac Assembler, > Assyst, ORCA/M, probably a few others. Big Mac is still a usefull choice. ORCA/M is more powerfull, but a bit harder to get on. > Then of course there was the Sweet-16 mini-assembler built into the ROMs > of the Apple ][ (not ][+ or //e). It finally reappeared in one of the > later ]['s, but I can't remember which (the //c+ perhaps?) First thing I did after I had my own Apple ][+ was hacking in the Mini Assembler via the monitor (CALL -151) and save it to cassete tape. I had to modify it on the fly ... :) At least the dissassembler was still in ROM - Ohhh good ol times. > I did all my coding by poking bytes from the monitor. Its how I learned > and its the only way I ever felt comfortable with even though using an > assembler would have saved me countless hours. But I never liked any of > the assemblers (and I had all the ones I mentioned above). I'm prety shure Bic Mac is woth a try. After I had FD drives Eventualy I did my own assembler (/370 orientated - before the Apple, I did it the other way - I developed a set of Macros for the ASSEMBF to compile 8080 code (and 6502) on the mainframe) >> Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >> a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > He probably is just referring to the amount of memory it has and is > clueless enough about the machine that he would call it that. I'm > positive its just a plain old C64. Maybe - I don't know all the names for the different 65816 projects to boost the C64 - maybe it's one of those ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 6 14:41:00 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <199807061727.TAA06487@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> BUT, 1982 was one of those years when computers just exploded. >>Machines like the C64. Easy to set up, cheap, better graphics and >>sound. People started putting their Atari 2600s in the closet and >>going out and buying computers. Parents were complaining that kids >>were playing video games too much. The fad was over. >> Almost overnight 2600 cartridges when from $20-$30 to $3-$5 each. >>Atari was the head domino and when they fell, they all started to fall. > I was writing games for a computer music company with several > C-64 titles at the time, and it was my impression that the > software market disappeared once people figured out they could > pirate their friend's software, instead of buying it. Old story, But never true. Everything about copying was done on the Apple ][ years before the C-64 (remember Locksmith or Nibbler ? :). And everything is still the same - easyer than ever (Buy a CD-Burner at USD 100 and get an idot proof copy programm for free) - so the home software market is dead ? Come on, be serious - it's still the same - if one wants a software and it is availabe (in difference to the early Apple ][ age when a pirate copy often whas the only trace about the existance of a special soft) one still buys it, if the price is right - but if the shop asks USD 500 just for a pop up util, one might look around for a copy - everybody wants new soft NOW - and don't want do search weeks just for a pirate. I still belive that most copys are no harm to the manufacturer. Example - I spend something like USD 150 per month on games (just one or two new games - they are horrible expensive in Germany). Same with two friens of mine - some- times we but a game 3 times - one each, since noone wants to wait one day for the copy. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From van at wired.com Mon Jul 6 12:38:47 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video Game Crash of 1983 In-Reply-To: <199807061130.NAA11886@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: Hi there... I just thought I should clarify that the Magnavox Odyssey was in fact the FIRST programmable cartridge based (they were actually circuit cards) home videogame system. Nolan Bushnell previewed this system in Burlingame in 1972 and essentially ripped it off to create Pong. There was also the Fairchild Channel F programmable system which preceeded the Atari VCS by at least a year. xoxo van >>> Video game crash of '83? Would you please explain? > >> In the early 80s there was a home video game boom started by the home game >> PONG and all it's clones then Atari produced one of the first popular >> cartridge programmable games, the 2600. Not soon after that there were >> probably a dozen competitors including Matell (Intellivisaion), Magnavox >> (Oddesy), Balley (Astrocade), etc. By about 1983 there was a major glut of >> game machines and cartridges, too many to support the market... > >> Then the bottom fell out around 1983 with the avent of cheaper home >>computers >> with just as good (if not better) game playing ability, which started >> capturing the attenetion of the masses and the gamers stopped buying video >> games in favor of computers, many of the game companies were hit REALLY hard >> and some folded. Of course this was the start of the home computer >>wars. :) >> Some were able to 're-tool' for home computer games and did quite well. ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 6 13:09:22 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:06 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <199807061727.TAA06487@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980706130922.00ef8290@pc> At 07:42 PM 7/6/98 +1, Hans Franke wrote: > >Old story, But never true. The delightful thing about discussions of the extent and effect of piracy is that both sides of the argument have a very hard time finding a shred of evidence, apart from the widely acknowledged extent of piracy. In my anecdotal opinion, the sequence of events was quite clear: Mom and Dad decided it was time to get a computer for the kids for Christmas, they bought two-three packages to go along with it, and by New Year's Day the kids are having copy-parties with their friends. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 13:23:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it has is a composite RF jack. Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 6 13:47:37 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 References: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A11BC9.C3FA272E@texoma.net> You have to use an Amiga keyboard, mouse and monitor. you can get a flicker-fixer bmodule that deinterlaces the Amiga DB23 video to let you use a SVGA monitor and there are adapters fand hacks for PC mice and keyboards. I have a 3000 and it's one sweet machime for it's time. James Max Eskin wrote: > > I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. > It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, > and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me > a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it > has is a composite RF jack. Also, are the keyboard and mouse > PC-compatible? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 14:04:39 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Video game crash Message-ID: <19980706190446.1292.qmail@hotmail.com> I don't think I've cost any companies anything via the 20 or so packages I've pirated over the years, because I wouldn't have bought them anyway (most of the stuff was expensive like Win95, MSOffice, etc.). >The delightful thing about discussions of the extent and effect of >piracy is that both sides of the argument have a very hard time >finding a shred of evidence, apart from the widely acknowledged >extent of piracy. > >In my anecdotal opinion, the sequence of >events was quite clear: Mom and Dad decided it was time to >get a computer for the kids for Christmas, they bought two-three >packages to go along with it, and by New Year's Day the kids >are having copy-parties with their friends. > >- John > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Mon Jul 6 14:45:05 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Video game crash In-Reply-To: <19980706190446.1292.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I don't think I've cost any companies anything via the 20 or so packages > I've pirated over the years, because I wouldn't have bought them anyway > (most of the stuff was expensive like Win95, MSOffice, etc.). The list does not need this debate. I hate to sound like a censor here, but this is a perennial flame-war waiting to happen. It can only end bitterly. So please, for crying out loud, don't continue this thread. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 12:25:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? In-Reply-To: <35A02641.F3B9D645@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 5, 98 08:20:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/0100ee42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 13:13:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? In-Reply-To: <199807061658.SAA04929@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 6, 98 07:12:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 999 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/648772e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 12:48:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 02:23:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980706/d9fcf4f0/attachment.ksh From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Jul 6 13:13:19 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: References: <199807060602.CAA14174@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 02:23:40 am Message-ID: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:48:28 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Dead PSU > > Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% > > certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way > > The symptoms as I understand them are that the fun runs if the PSU has no > (or very light load), but the PSU trips if the load is increased. But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. > > most of time usually has none of scr or clamp downs to block > > overvoltage, the PWM ic usually '494 and LM339 monitors the output > > voltages. > > For normal operation, there's a feedback loop applied to the PWM chopper > control IC, normally via an optoisolator. > > I've just looked at a dozen or so SMPSU schematics. All of them have some > independant shutdown other than the main feedback loop. PC power supplies > tend to have a 339 applied to the shutdown pin of the 494. Just about all > others, including Apple ones, have a crowbar thyristor. One obscure one > has a thyristor which operates a separate optoisolator to apply a > shutdown signal to the primary side. > > Whatever method is used, a PSU that trips is detecting some error and > shutting down. Either overvoltage or overcurrent. A defect in the current > sense resistor is unlikely, so it's likely to be an overvoltage error. That also would not work when either secondary caps and diodes components is shorted. That is what it's like when PSU tries to spin into a low resistance load but PWM noticed that and kept off but when power is removed the PWM disconnects from safety shutdown mode as input power by that mains filter decays causes PWM to run at lower power but enough to make fan jump. > > > > > Remove the main transformer and check all diodes for dead shorts and > > leaky capacitors ONLY in the output side, about 6 or 8 diodes and few > > If it'll run at all, then a shorted diode is not likely. That is not what I meant, PSU are supposed to be loaded always for proper operation and shorted components adds up to lower resistance that trips the PWM controller safties. But with all the loads removed, that PSU is running on that shorted diode as a resistance load at just right resistance. > > > > > Don't be fooled, at least 2 diode pairs are in two "transistors" > > casings, but there's markings that looks like two diodes back to > > Often, but not always. Also watch for diodes in 2-lead TO220 cans (look > like a power transistor with 2 leads). That would be very unusual to me in PSU but someday I would run into these but I only dealt with common stuff, I only saw one or two machines that used this 2 lead in TO-220 case. > > In genral, transistors are designated by Q1, Q2, etc and diodes by D1, > D2, etc. That's one way to spot them. Not USUALLY. :) Cheapo and in good stuff usually does not mark very well. Use your eyes on circuit layouts and components # used to pull down docs off the net if needed. > > But this does not beat the info if you really trace out where all the > > outputs out on that PSU and pick out most likely components to check > > with your meter and catch the baddie red-handed. Pure joy when that > > happens! :) > > One way to find high ESR output capacitors is to put the supply on a > load where it works, 'scope the outputs, and increase the load on each > output in turn, gradually. You'll see spikes appear on the output with > high ESR capacitors. Remember, most guys have no OSCILLSCOPE. :-( Mayor $$$ and very slow to aquire one. > > I hesitate to mention the next trick, because it can damage some > capacitors, but here goes. It's handy for field repairs if you've not got > a 'scope with you. > > Remove the capacitor from the circuit. Charge the capacitor - must be > more than 1000uF - from a 9V radio battery, observing polarity. Disconnect > the battery, and wait a few seconds. Now short out the capacitor with a > screwdriver. If you get an arc (audible click, spark), then the capacitor > is probably OK. Or you're done "zapping" one and putting back that "good" but now blown caps, adding to the confusion. Also I don't relish doing that and can't hear the tiny pop or zapping sound. > > the cost is so cheap. Get one from "Bob Parker's" DSE's ESR meter > > kit from under and to the left without a second thought. > > Yep, an ESR meter is on my list of things to get... I'll probably build > the one in 'Television' - it's simple (a few op-amps), and cheap to > build. The problem with the Dick Smith one is that I believe it uses some > programmed (and copy-protected) device, which means I'll not be able to > keep it running for ever. Oh, I tried to obtain the "Television" from a special inporter mag reseller but they can't find or get them. Well, develop one and make code freely available with circuit layout then otherwise could anyone obtain that cicuit layout and send some to interested party like me. > > Boo hiss. :) > > Yep, nothing annoys me more than companies that won't sell spares. Sharp > are top of the list at the moment - I'll not buy _anything_ from them > again. That one thing but I meant usual parts like caps, specfic semi components and such that is easily available in US and some places in canada but none in my hometown, has to rely on substitution heavily. > of a problem than custom ASICs and mechanical bits. True...byond that most semis not those jellybean ones are what I need and most places have those jellybeans but not those I need. For ASIC's, I resorted to collecting large # number of similar boards that uses same chipsets and take good ones to repair high quality boards. > > -tony Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Jul 6 17:55:42 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 06:13:19 pm Message-ID: <199807062255.PAA21147@goodnet.com> > > > Oh, bit about the fan jump a bit with power removed. I'm 100% > > > certain something is shorted in the secondary outputs and by the way > > > > The symptoms as I understand them are that the fun runs if the PSU has no > > (or very light load), but the PSU trips if the load is increased. > > But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second > later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. I wasn't watching this thread, so pardon me if this is irrelevant... but a coworker was building a new system, and thought the PSU was bad. The fan would jump a little but not power on all the way, nor did anything else (LED's, hard drive, etc.) Turned out it was just that the PII wasn't seated in its socket all the way. So it seems ATX boards will not power up without a processor. The motherboard is in control of the powerup sequence. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * eschew obfuscation * Java * Khoros * electronics * sci fi * emusic * From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 6 18:58:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: HP Portable Plus manuals FS Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980706185817.301feb32@intellistar.net> I have the following HP Portable Plus manuals for sale for best offer. Unless otherwise noted, all manuals are complete and are in HP binders and slipcovers and are in excellant condition. The Portable Plus uses software loaded in EPROM. The EPROMs are not included. MemoMaker/Time Management (no slipcase, no EPROM) Lotus 123 ver 1A (includes Utilities, Tutorial disc but no EPROM) E-mail privately if you're interested. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 6 18:57:52 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: HP 150 manuals and software FS Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980706185752.2f6fcb54@intellistar.net> I'm thinning out my collection and I have the following HP 150 software & manuals for sale for best offer. Unless otherwise noted, all are complete and include discs and are in HP binders and slipcovers and are in excellant condition. I also have some HP 150 computers that I will be selling off. E-mail me privately if you're interested. Joe Series 100 Personal Card File Series 100 MemoMaker Series 100 MemoMaker (#2) Series 100 WordStar Series 100 WordStar Training and Installation Guide Series 100 Terminal User’s Guide Series 100 HP 150 Personal Computers Owner’s Guide From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 6 18:03:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU In-Reply-To: <199807062152.RAA18013@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Jul 6, 98 06:13:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/0696d818/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 19:48:24 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980706204736.006b94d4@netpath.net> At 06:25 PM 7/6/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >Many modern machines will take an MDA or CGA card with no problems, I am >sure. But I could believe that there are some that don't. All the clone systems I have ever built or worked on supported MDA/CGA in BIOS, and also took 8-bit cards. I even had an MDA running in a Tandy 1000TX with CGA onboard. No hitches there, but that machine isn't exactly one of "today's" systems. I'd be skeptical of any of the newer proprietary systems, PB, Comaq, Dell, AST all spring to mind. >Don't you just tell it it has no hard drive installed, and rely on the >BIOS extension on the 8 bit hard disk controller? Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary cards were even BIOS driven. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 19:49:58 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Dead PSU Message-ID: <19980707004958.9932.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, no, I meant that if I get it to die on me, and unplug whatever "overloaded" it, it will start back up. BTW, if I do unplug it, it continues working, but the beats on the speaker slow down until they stop. It takes about 5 seconds. >But Max later said when he pulled the power he noticed about a second >later the fan jumped. I have seen that before too. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 20:33:04 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions References: <3.0.5.32.19980706120826.0093eb20@netpath.net> <3.0.5.32.19980706130719.00949470@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A17AD0.268858BA@bbtel.com> Maybe a buck or two, you can't get much for them anymore, even though they still have a very big purpose in computing. Check sometime and see how many people are using their C= equipment on the net sometime and you'll see what I mean. John Higginbotham wrote: > At 11:49 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > >The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with > >an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do > >3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise > >channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new > >chip revision. > > Ack. I hope those dealers I mentioned before aren't marking up the price > just because the c64c looks more like a c128... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 20:35:23 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? References: <3.0.32.19980706204736.006b94d4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A17B5B.650BB10B@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 06:25 PM 7/6/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Many modern machines will take an MDA or CGA card with no problems, I am > >sure. But I could believe that there are some that don't. > > All the clone systems I have ever built or worked on supported MDA/CGA in > BIOS, and also took 8-bit cards. I even had an MDA running in a Tandy > 1000TX with CGA onboard. No hitches there, but that machine isn't exactly > one of "today's" systems. I'd be skeptical of any of the newer proprietary > systems, PB, Comaq, Dell, AST all spring to mind. Out of curiousity I tried a Hercules in a Dell 325SX that has onboard Paradise VGA and no problems.... > >Don't you just tell it it has no hard drive installed, and rely on the > >BIOS extension on the 8 bit hard disk controller? > > Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary > cards were even BIOS driven. I don't think they were.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 6 21:24:04 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980706182357.27186.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. Depends on the particular unit. The A2000 has been around for over 10 years now. >It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, >and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me >a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it >has is a composite RF jack. The RF jack only outputs monochrome. You need a A520 modulator to plug into the 23 pin port which lets you connect to a TV, or an Amiga monitor to connect to the 23pin port. It's possible to attach a standard VGA or multisync monitor, but it requires special hardware which is rather expensive. >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup that way very cheap. You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know the price of all of that. One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working one. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 6 22:10:42 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: 8-bit video cards in new systems? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980706225933.006b7214@netpath.net> At 08:35 PM 7/6/98 -0500, Russ Blakeman wrote: >> Talking Sony CD-ROM here. I don't think those little 8-bit proprietary >> cards were even BIOS driven. > >I don't think they were.... My mistake. Sony CD-ROM card was mentioned in same sentence though (deftly saving my sanity, BTW.) :) I used to pull that trick to test old ST-225 Seagates when I didn't have an XT machine handy. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 6 22:47:18 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PAIA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Among the cooler IMSAI-related stuff in my haul this weekend was an early PAIA drum synthesizer board. I did my net.homework and found that not only are these guys still around, but they make cool retro-musical stuff like analog synths and even theremins! I'm about to go shopping: http://www.paia.com/ -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 6 23:08:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 25-1011 Plus Memeory Card for T1000 FS Message-ID: <35A19F43.5C110E42@bbtel.com> I have a Tandy Memory Plus Expansion Board, tandy catalog number 25-1011 that brings the base memory of the machine from 128k up to 640k RAM. It came from a Tandy 1000 (no suffix) but will work on a Tandy 1000A and 1000HD. Full information documents are contained on line at http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/2460.htm Not sure if your model works with it? Check the docs for your model 1000 at http://support.tandy.com/support_computer/2512.htm and look under the memory upgrades page to see if it will. I know for sure it will NOT work on the EX and HX models. The card is populated with the full 512k RAM to bring your 128K basic machine up to full DOS RAM. I need $15 for the card which includes shipping to you in the 48 lower US states. AK and HI should inquire to see if any additional shipping applies, probably won't. Email me direct if interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 7 00:23:20 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: SF Bay Area Get-together Message-ID: <199807070523.WAA05364@daemonweed.reanimators.org> A while back, I wrote: >(c) So...fine, here's a time and place for all us Bay Areans to > argue over: Second Thursday, 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM, El Paso Cafe, > 1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View. Y'all can flame me about > this in public or private, and I'm still open to change, but I want > to announce the real time and place on 30 June. Well, I got busy, then there was some argument, and as near as I can tell all that came out of that argument was that it would probably be a good idea to move the meeting around the Bay Area to give more folks an opportunity to attend. Sounds like a good idea to me, but for now.... When: 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM Where: El Paso Cafe, 1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View, CA What: random discussion over dinner How to get there: From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 7 00:53:56 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: CompacTapes In-Reply-To: <199807070523.WAA05364@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: Over the weekend, in anticipation of getting a TK50Z-FA, I picked up several "CompacTape" cartridges. They are all still sealed, and dated late 1991. The label on each cartridge carries a logo for PowerMon II which is 'Automatic UPS Monitoring and Shutdown Software'. However, the printed text on the labels is rather more provocative. They say things like: OpenVMS/VAX/AXP Ver. 2.2 S/N: 9615894 ST-1013-03-F1 VAX VMS Ver. 3.0 S/N: 9421376 DEC ULTRIX S/N: ULT 294 Any idea what I have here - other than potential scratch tapes? It seems most likely that the PowerMon software is on each, but the disparity of serial numbers would seem to me to make it unlikely that the monitor program is all that is there. S'pose they are bootable? Comments and speculation appreciated. - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 7 03:25:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? Message-ID: Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Jul 7 04:39:13 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I just pulled an Amiga 2000 (I don't think it's >10 yet) from the trash. > > Depends on the particular unit. The A2000 has been around for over 10 > years now. > > >It didn't come with anything else, just the system unit. I looked it up, > >and I pretty much came up with the specifications. COuld someone tell me > >a little more about it? What kind of video can I use with this? All it > >has is a composite RF jack. > > The RF jack only outputs monochrome. You need a A520 modulator to plug > into the 23 pin port which lets you connect to a TV, or an Amiga monitor to > connect to the 23pin port. > > It's possible to attach a standard VGA or multisync monitor, but it > requires special hardware which is rather expensive. If your multisync syncs down to 15khz, there is no requirement for special hardware. The NEC Multisyncs up through the 3D all sync down to 15Khz as do many others. > > >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? > > Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. > Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned > the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup > that way very cheap. > > You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what > kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or > 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? > > The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard > Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV > graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know > the price of all of that. > > One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting > in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS > beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. > > I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It > would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working > one. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Jul 7 05:29:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <004c01bda8d7$1544b020$c23ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > What is this, some sort of trick question? I was wondering the same thing, but not because of the simplicity of the answer, because there were so many variations to the PET 2001. I'll assume that 'PET 2001' also covers the 2001N and 2001B models. > 8" screen Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my father's bedroom at this hour. Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen one. I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. I don't imagine it would be too easy to graft a 9" screen onto a 2001N, and I don't imagine anyone would want to, so I guess mine doesn't fit on the list. Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) > chicklet keyboard On the most ancient machines yes. But the PET 2001B and 2001N models came with full-size keyboards, as does one of my straight 2001s. > tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard Keyboard dependent. But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. There's an IEEE-488 interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to the user port on the VIC-20/C64. The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. (As an aside, original ROM machines start up with the message: *** COMMODORE BASIC *** whereas upgrade ROM machines start up with ### COMMODORE BASIC ### I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) Also, the ROMs don't support any kind of serial communication through the user port, only parallel. The case is made of bent sheet metal so you don't want a PET 2001 dropping on your head. etc, etc... > Hans Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Jul 7 08:43:47 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Programming the 6502 (Zaks) Message-ID: I recall someone was looking for this a while back and since I already have a copy, I won't bid on this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20139047 8 may seem steep as a starting bid but this is a great book and it's hard to find nowadays. On the other hand the original cover price was 14.95... Cheers, Dan From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 7 09:53:09 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: CompacTapes In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 6, 98 10:53:56 pm Message-ID: <9807071353.AA22649@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 995 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/bc2d6a64/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 09:31:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707093105.00c7a860@pc> At 01:25 AM 7/7/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? I've got a dozen-plus antique rolls that I got from someone on the Greenkeys RTTY mailing list, if you just need a pair. If you search the net for "paper tape", you'll find several suppliers to the computer-controlled machining market, with options for paper tape, mylar tape, oiled, etc. I've said it before, the Greenkeys list needs to meet the classic-comp list. Who doesn't want an ASR-33? :-) Sure, the RTTY people deal with both Baudot and ASCII-based machines, but they're dumping stuff left and right, due to these greybeards cleaning house to move into a condo or a Winnebago. - John From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:11 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706121047.0b0f1620@ricochet.net> Sorry to reply to such an old message, but... At 11:28 AM 6/27/98 +0300, you wrote: >>BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite caught on >>in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based computers. Touch >>screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. AI. Home automation. >>The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. Two things I have to debate here... First, pen-based computers haven't yet caught on at the consumer level (corporate/specialized use is another story -- ask your UPS guy) but the technology is about to: The Cross Pad. (Put your pad of paper on this clipboard-type thingie and take notes. Go home and upload them to the computer.) I described it to a CPA and his eyes lit up like a kid at christmas. Voice-recognition isn't commonplace yet (again, in the consumer world) but it will be. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:22 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: AOL History (was: QuantumLink AOL lore...) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706162224.0b0f2654@ricochet.net> Some of you (locals) may know I publish a weekly listing of free stuff happening in the City (plug, plug... see )... One of the upcoming events (at Stacey's Bookstore in downtown San Francisco) is this: Kara Swisher - Friday, July 17 @ 12:30 "AOL.COM: How Steve Case Beat Bill Gates, Nailed The Netheads, And Made Millions In The War For The Web" As a reporter for The Washington Post, Kara Swisher had the opportunity to go inside one of the most watched companies in the world, America Online. In her new book, AOL.COM, she captures the secrets of how AOL became the world's biggest online company. Revealing all the major moments in AOL's frenzied history; from its origins in the dreams of the eccentric entrepreneur, Bill Von Meister, to its triumph under the vision of the young marketing executive, Steve Case. For anyone interested in the Internet, technology, or modern business, AOL.COM is a must-read. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Jul 7 10:43:26 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980706183350.0b0f255a@ricochet.net> At 09:29 AM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > I'm picking up an original Mac Portable this week on my way to get more >PDP11 stuff at Temple University (in Philly). The Portable is missing a hard >drive. Which drive goes into this unit? I seem to remember a 40mb unit. It's a 40mb conner (cp-3044 or cp-3045) that uses a funky connector. To build a funky-to-SCSI cable, check out the Mac Portable FAQ at . Check out as well. If you don't want to build your own cable, $35 will get you an adapter from which is MicroMac Technology (Also has specs). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 7 13:06:19 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <199807071552.RAA00007@marina.fth.sbs.de> > [8089] >>> (very fancy DMA chip). >> Thats like naming the Newton a fancy post it thing. The >> 8089 was a full featured CPU, just with an special >> command set suited for I/O operations. Anything from > True. I've got the 8089 data sheet, and a 3rd party '8089 I/O processor > handbook', and it is indeed a coprocessor. However, it's normally used > (and it's used in the Apricot) as a DMA controller, so it's best to think > of it that way, for all it can do a lot more. > It's a lot nicer than the 8237 used in the IBM PC. For one thing it > correctly handles the 20 bit address bus, so there's no problem with > crossing 64K boundaries. For another, it can monitor a Data Ready flag on > one port, and transfew data when the peripheral is ready. No need to have > DMA channels in the PC sense. >> serial I/O via disk I/O up to code translations could >> done in a very smooth and genuine way. > Howver the Apricot has a normal serial chip and disk controller, and only > uses the 8089 for DMA. Maybe I used the wrong words - poor english language skill - Of course a regular Serial I/O chip is still needed, the 8089 has no serial (or what ever) I/O of its own. But instead of the main CPU, the 8089 will respond to all requests for data transfer - shure, you could use two DMA chanals for input/output data, but in difference to an ordinary DMA the 8089 could also handle the status lines and drive a non hardware protocoll - from xon/xoff up to HDLC. Same for any other kind of I/O hardware, not only serial, since the logic is software not hardware. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jul 7 11:20:11 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: S-100 computers & peripherals available - interested? (fwd) Message-ID: I said I would forward this on to interested people... Contact Art directly if you are interested. Note the contact before date of 7-10-98 so you will have to act quickly. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:44:42 EDT From: JARTART@aol.com To: collector@heydon.org Subject: S-100 computers & peripherals available - interested? I have to part with Vector Graphics System B computers, working with documentation and top of the line Malibu printers and Morrow Design harddrive (25MB) add-ons. All circa 1978+. Are you interested? Please contact me before 7-10-98. Art Jensen (800)666-JART e-mail = JARTART@aol.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jul 7 11:32:45 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Paper tape anyone? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980707093105.00c7a860@pc> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980707093245.008bc460@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:31 AM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:25 AM 7/7/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone know where I can get a supply of ASR-33 punch tape? > >I've got a dozen-plus antique rolls that I got from someone on the >Greenkeys RTTY mailing list, if you just need a pair. If you search >the net for "paper tape", you'll find several suppliers to the >computer-controlled machining market, with options for paper tape, >mylar tape, oiled, etc. > >I've said it before, the Greenkeys list needs to meet the classic-comp >list. Who doesn't want an ASR-33? :-) Sure, the RTTY people deal >with both Baudot and ASCII-based machines, but they're dumping stuff >left and right, due to these greybeards cleaning house to move into >a condo or a Winnebago. True enough! Just this past week I picked up a really neat looking model 28 TTY from a HAM that was having a moving dump. Not 'moving sale', DUMP! There was a dumpster in front of his house, and a note on the local net of the starting time. Everything he did not want (and it was a LOT) started toward the dumpster. If you caught it before it it hit the ground, it was yours! He said he had some more TTY gear that he would probably not drop until just before he was ready to leave... I left him my card! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 7 11:38:41 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Looking for Bubble memory card for Apple ][ In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980706121047.0b0f1620@ricochet.net> Message-ID: These may be more rare than the famous GS Video overlay card. Finding one of these bubble memory cards would be something. Finding one with software would be amazing! George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 12:11:03 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707171103.23869.qmail@hotmail.com> No, this is just a 68K, no boards of any kind, just the floppy drive >You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what >kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or >68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 12:15:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707171519.3684.qmail@hotmail.com> What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? >If your multisync syncs down to 15khz, there is no requirement for >special hardware. The NEC Multisyncs up through the 3D all sync >down to 15Khz as do many others. > >> >> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible? >> >> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15. >> Your best bet is to try and find someone local to you that has abandoned >> the Amiga to join the mindless masses. I recently got a rather nice setup >> that way very cheap. >> >> You didn't mention what kind of processor you've got in the system or what >> kind of boards it has. The stock is 68000, but it might have a 68020 or >> 68030 on an accelerator board. Do you have a Hard Drive controller? >> >> The ultimate A2000 would have a dual 68060/PPC acclerator, UW SCSI Hard >> Drive, about 128Mb RAM, Ethernet, either a Video Toaster or a Picasso IV >> graphics card and be running Amiga OS 3.1, of course you don't want to know >> the price of all of that. >> >> One of my main systems is a fairly beefy A3000 that I just got done putting >> in a Tower case this weekend (metal working skills required). The Amiga OS >> beats anything MS has ever put out, and beats MacOS on certain points. >> >> I think the best way to sum up Amiga's is that they are just plain fun! It >> would be well worth your time to either fix up that one, or find a working >> one. >> >> Zane >> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >> | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >> | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >> | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >> | and Zane's Computer Museum. | >> | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mark_k at iname.com Tue Jul 7 12:25:22 1998 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Stuff for trade in UK Message-ID: Hi, I have some junk which I would like to trade for other junk... - Two Wangtek tape streamers. One is 5125EN, the other 5099EN24. These are not- quite-SCSI devices; they require the correct PC interface cards -- PC-36 for the 5099EN24, and probably the 5125EN too. I don't have the interface card. I believe they work; before I figured out that they are not SCSI, connecting them to a SCSI controller allowed me to rewind tapes, at least - Commodore PET 8050 disk drive, in bits. I took this apart years ago to clean, and forgot how to put it back together again. Never had the right cable to test it out anyway. Could be useful for spares if you already have one of these drives. I would like to get hold of a Wangtek 5150ES or 5525ES tape streamer. Or make a suggestion. I live in Wiltshire, England. Bye, -- Mark From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 7 12:42:41 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > > > What is this, some sort of trick question? > > I was wondering the same thing, but not because of the simplicity of the > answer, because there were so many variations to the PET 2001. No trick. A lady I buy stuff from said she had a 2001, so I needed to know some defining characteristics to ask her so that I could make sure she was talking about a 2001 and not something else. Turns out she had 4016 and 4032 models. I already have both. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 12:47:33 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980707171519.3684.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> At 10:15 AM 7/7/98 PDT, Max Eskin wrote: > >What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? Max, your message consisted of one line of question with dozens of lines of previous message. Please consider editing out the parts you don't need. Also, there are dozens of web pages with the pinouts of the various Amigas. Did you try a web search before you replied? I entered "23 pin port amiga" in Hotbot and got 1,970 hits, many valid. Is the Amiga a valid topic for the mailing list? Surely the first models fit the ten-year-rule, but the A2000 falls short by at least a year or two. There are other resources you can tap - the Amiga news groups out-post the classic groups by at least an order of magnitude, and that's only counting the English-speaking groups. - John From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Jul 7 12:53:55 1998 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: >The case is made of bent sheet metal so you don't want a PET 2001 dropping >on your head. I had a CBM 8032, which when a shelving unit collapesed in my garage, fell from a height of 7 feet onto the hood of my car. The hood was torn up, and the 8032 had hardly a scratch, not even the tube.. and still worked fine. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 13:05:35 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 References: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> Message-ID: <35A2636F.67DC3C20@polygon.com> John - I am new to the classic computers list, so I may be out of place. However - if you have a problem with a specific person, is it nescessary to post your reply in the list? Also, the 10 year rule - is it that strict, or just a guideline? I have two MicroVAX 3600, which debuted in 1987, but these weren't produced until 1989. Can I still talk about them here? Before you consider censorship, consider this: Is it possible that other people check list list for information about Amigas of any vintage? If so, will the information about the 2000 be of no use whatsoever to them? I don't mean to insult. Please send your reply, if any, to me directly. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 13:14:48 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: My appologies Message-ID: <35A26598.1F2214B4@polygon.com> The reply-to got me. My previous post to John was intended to go directly to him, not to the list. I failed to notice the automatic reply-to that sent it to the list as a whole. "Sorry - my bad" -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 7 13:21:08 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Doug Spence "Re: PET 2001" (Jul 7, 6:29) References: Message-ID: <9807071921.ZM1059@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 7, 6:29, Doug Spence wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: > > 8" screen > > Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my > father's bedroom at this hour. 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". > Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen > one. > > I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim > Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my > PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: > > PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. > PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen > PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen > PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys > PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys > PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. > PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. I don't think Jim's list is quite correct. For a start, there were lots of 2001 PETs with 9" screen and the graphics keyboard, without the cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in upper- or lower-case. > Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. > I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) My 2001-8K is white phosphor. The full-size-keyboard ones were green. > > tape drive built in, to the left of the keyboard > > Keyboard dependent. > > But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine > uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right > side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external > cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. On the later models, that's TAPE#1 and the TAPE#2 is an internal connector. > There's an IEEE-488 > interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and > probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to > the user port on the VIC-20/C64. > > The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade > ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. Well, they do, sort-of, but a bug in the IEEE routines prevents it from working with anything other than a printer. There were a few other bugs as well, and the upgrade ROMs themselves were replaced later. > (As an aside, original ROM machines start up with the message: > *** COMMODORE BASIC *** > > whereas upgrade ROM machines start up with > ### COMMODORE BASIC ### > > I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts > up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them > whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but otherwise it's almost the same as 3. Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. > It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that > operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 > and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character > set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was > it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) All those POKEs are ROM-version-dependent. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 7 13:23:21 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000, in moderation In-Reply-To: <35A2636F.67DC3C20@polygon.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980707142321.00945100@netpath.net> This is another John replying: I've been on this list, off and on, for about a year now. I have seen the 10 year limit fluctuate quite a bit since I originally subscribed. I don't really care if a post about Linux or Windows, or Pentium II processors pops up once in a while, but that's just my opinion, and everyone has a different opinion about any particular subject. It is also my opinion that there should only be ONE moderator, and what he says goes, no ifs ands or buts about it. He should be the one making the call on stuff like this publicly, not members of the list. Once again, these words are just my humble opinion and are not meant to anger, enrage, ignite a flame war, start a massive thread about moderation, or solve the Y2K problem in any way. So if anything like that happens, it's not my fault. If anyone wants to argue either way on my opinion, they are more than welcome to do so privately so as to reduce the signal to noise ratio. At 01:05 PM 7/7/98 -0500, you wrote: the 10 year rule - is >it that strict, or just a guideline? I have two MicroVAX 3600, which debuted in 1987, but these >weren't produced until 1989. Can I still talk about them here? From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 7 13:59:08 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980707135908.00c13540@pc> I intended a very gentle guiding message for Max, and in no way said anything about censorship except self-restraint in the form of editing recommendations (endlessly requoted messages with one-liner replies drive me up a wall). I gave general advice to search the net before posting, as opposed to treating the mailing list as a magic oracle that answers all your questions. Save the list for the truly obscure questions, not the stuff that's on hundreds of web pages. - John From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 14:33:12 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:07 2005 Subject: FW: Houston area VAX for free! Message-ID: <199807071935.TAA13327@cyber2.servtech.com> While hunting in DejaNews for VAX 11/730 info I found this to pass on. Msg a bit old it seems but may be worth checking to see if yet available. Of course, make sure you contact snowcrash@elitemicro.com directly :) >Subject: VAX for free! >From: snowcrash@elitemicro.com (Snowcrash) >Date: 1998/06/08 >Message-ID: <001801bd931c$18c716f0$7b7b7b7b@ironmaiden> >Newsgroups: muc.lists.netbsd.port.vax >[More Headers] >[Subscribe to muc.lists.netbsd.port.vax] > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92F2.2F4565A0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > OK guys, since all I have is an old 11/730, which can't support = >NetBSD, and basically I have no clue how to set any of it up, I'm gonna = >give it away. It is in the Houston, TX area. You pick it up or arrange = >the transportation if you are intrested. Here's what I know about it. > > >Vax 11/730 >(1) RA81 >(2) RA80 >(1) TU80 >(1) RL02 >Some other stuff I can't identify. >Also about 30 assorted terminals. > > Daniel Daley, CNE > snowcrash@elitemicro.com > > -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 14:48:20 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> Hi folks, Still busy rummaging through the truckload of PDPs and VAXen and peripherals and manuals, etc. I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are what I need. Web searches using Metacrawler and DejaNews yield rather meager results. Sites like the excellent PDP site: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/ are what I really would like to find. I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the garage) or to search for. Could any of you folks help point me in the proper directions? Thanks for all your help and support so far. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 7 15:01:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: termnals to get rid of... Message-ID: <35A27E9D.1F964E01@bbtel.com> Ok the 10th is right around the corner so I'll post this one last time before It goes with the scrap. Visual 102 terminal with keyboard - complete and working, good shape DEC VT 100 without keyboard - working as far as I can tell and good shape DEC VT 220 without keyboard - working again as far as I can tell, good shape. These are free except shipping. I need a firm answer for a home by Firday and then a money order for the estimated shipping by the 20th or they go to terminal heaven. hate to do this as I'm sure someone can use them. I still have the last of the working HP 700/44's with keybaord and lookig like brand new for $15 plus shippping too, but I have the room to put it back for a while and maybe even use it later. Direct emai please - RHBLAKE@BBTEL.COM or RHBLAKE@BIGFOOT.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 15:29:25 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Last night I poked a little around the RA60 and the 11/34A that I want to keep. I saw a cable ass'y attached to the RA60 which had two black cables (about 7/8"wide x 3/8" thick) and relatively small plastic 8-pin connector recepticles within a comparatively hefty backshell. Inside the 11/34A cabinet there were a group of four of the same small mating connectors which had four flat, red cables running from that group into a Unibus board in the the BA11 (forgot module number). A 12-foot long cable with two 8-pin plastic connectors each within a large backshell was laying inside the 11/34A box. I extrapulate from a couple of other private msgs that this is probably the UDA50 interface. True? Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. Can anyone give me any info on the TS03 tape unit? It is the only one I can keep so I plan to lash it up to the 11/34A or maybe the 11/730 if I indeed keep that (or both by swapping cables?) Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? More questions to come..... Thanks so far, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From buck_c at polygon.com Tue Jul 7 15:51:29 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> What you are looking at is SDI (not to be confused with ESDI). Originally, it was designed to allow extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if memory serves). Subsequent designs were modifed to make it a pain in the rear. The one thing you must always remember about SDI - ALWAYS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CABLES. They won't work if you don't. They're actually four coax cables in one sheath, and swap at each connection. Generally, there will be a cable from the drive to a block on the back of the cabinet, then the large black cables to go from box to box, then the red cables that connect the block to the controller. I don't know if there is a FAQ specifically about it, but there is some limitted info on the NetBSD hardware library. And yes, the UDA50 is the interface. I don't know about the Unibus version, but the Q-bus version (KDA50) is a dual-board set. Each controller can connect to four devices. Generally, most devices will have an A and B channel, which allows you to put the drive on two controllers for fault tolerance. If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just threw out about 10 dead SDI drives and have plenty of leftover cables. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 7 16:38:55 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: termnals to get rid of... In-Reply-To: <35A27E9D.1F964E01@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 7, 98 03:01:33 pm Message-ID: <199807072138.RAA17796@user2.infinet.com> > DEC VT 220 without keyboard - working again as far as I can tell, good > shape. Russ, I know I vanished off the face of the Earth. I didn't mean to leave you hanging, but life got busy here (long story). I am Ccing Tina, my S.O., so that she can pick up the money order to send to you for shipping on the VT220, since I failed miserably in picking one up. It was to Columbus, OH,43202. She will need to know the amount. If it's already claimed, I understand. Sorry for flaking out. -ethan > These are free except shipping. I need a firm answer for a home by > Firday and then a money order for the estimated shipping by the 20th or > they go to terminal heaven. hate to do this as I'm sure someone can use > them. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 7 16:41:53 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807072143.VAA16384@cyber2.servtech.com> At 15:51 07-07-98 -0500, "J. Buck Caldwell" wrote: >What you are looking at is SDI (not to be confused with ESDI). Originally, it was designed to allow Aha! That explains the handwritten marks on pieces of tape somewhere around a couple of connectors and cables... it said simply "SDI". >extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if memory serves). Subsequent Hmmm, if I have a space problem this may mean I could have the 11/34 in one corner of my basement and the drive in a diagonal corner out of the way? (about 20-25 feet) >designs were modifed to make it a pain in the rear. The one thing you must always remember about SDI >- ALWAYS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CABLES. They won't work if you don't. They're actually four coax >cables in one sheath, and swap at each connection. Generally, there will be a cable from the drive >to a block on the back of the cabinet, then the large black cables to go from box to box, then the >red cables that connect the block to the controller. I don't know if there is a FAQ specifically >about it, but there is some limitted info on the NetBSD hardware library. And yes, the UDA50 is the >interface. I don't know about the Unibus version, but the Q-bus version (KDA50) is a dual-board set. >Each controller can connect to four devices. Generally, most devices will have an A and B channel, >which allows you to put the drive on two controllers for fault tolerance. Thanks for the description and that odd # of cables warning! This sure helps a bit. > >If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just threw out about 10 dead SDI drives >and have plenty of leftover cables. Thanks for the offer. I'll keep this on file. And thanks very much for the info! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 7 16:53:39 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 7, 98 03:48:20 pm Message-ID: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> > I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are > what I need. Web searches using Metacrawler and DejaNews yield rather > meager results. Sites like the excellent PDP site: > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/ are > what I really would like to find. > > I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am > considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check > the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals > and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the > garage) or to search for. I don't know what variety you got, but the R80 (RB80) in the rack with some VAX-11/730's is a cheap and easy disk to use. Slow, but supported. I have one in storage. The 11/730 is the slowest UNIBUS machine made (along with the 11/725, same CPU, different box), .3 to .4 VUPs (the 11/780 and MicroVAX II are the benchmark, about 1 VUP). You can't officially extend the UNIBUS, but unofficially, I have attached a BA11 to a 730. It works, but there are no shielded cables to stay FCC compliant with. It has a max of 5Mb. It'll run VMS4.x OK, 5.x is *slow*. You *need* a cassette in the internal (around the side) TU58 slot. There is an 8085 boot processor on a CPU board. It reads the tape and stuffs microcode onto another CPU board. I have on a disk somewhere, not readily accessible, a program to optimize that tape (speeds booting from 20 minutes to 5). It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. A stock 11/730 should have a DMF32 for serial and parallel. It is possible to wire up a box to adapt the 37 pin parallel port to a centronics printer, but you'll need a 7404 inverter to flip some control lines. It's not just wires. We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, but that was the cheapest way for us to go. Good luck. It's a VAX, but the doggiest VAX there is. At least it sucks less than 15 amps. -ethan From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 7 17:19:29 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> >Last night I poked a little around the RA60 and the 11/34A that I want to >keep. I saw a cable ass'y attached to the RA60 which had two black cables >(about 7/8"wide x 3/8" thick) and relatively small plastic 8-pin >connector recepticles within a comparatively hefty backshell. Inside the >11/34A cabinet there were a group of four of the same small mating >connectors which had four flat, red cables running from that group into a >Unibus board in the the BA11 (forgot module number). A 12-foot long cable >with two 8-pin plastic connectors each within a large backshell was >laying inside the 11/34A box. I extrapulate from a couple of other >private msgs that this is probably the UDA50 interface. True? Sounds good to me... >Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? RA60 is a removable disk, part of the RA series of MSCP (mas storage communications protocol) disks... MSCP is a Digital proprietary protocol, but if you check the uncommented source for the DU handler on RT-11, you'll find lots of info on how to program it (or at least you'll have a chance to figure it out -- it's uncommented) Other members of the family are the RA8x series and the RA9x series... >Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP >interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. MSCP was used for many disks put out by Digital, but not the RL01 or RL02... these disks are smarter than an RK05, but still required programming at the cylinder/head/etc level instead of abstract objects like blocks... >Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was >buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ >pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) >That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? You don't mean an '11/23' chassis... it may be a BA23, or a BA123 (or a BA-11). If you have a J-11 chip on a board, we'll need to know more about the board. Is it dual high? (KDJ11-A -- 11/73A). Is it quad high? (KDJ11-B -- 11/73B or 11/83, KDJ11-D -- 11/53, or KDJ11-E -- 11/93). Is there memory on the board? (KDJ11-D or KDJ11-E) Is there a space for a 40-pin chip? (FP chip, KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B) etc. Then again, you could tell us the M-number and we could tell you what it is... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 12:55:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 6, 98 07:24:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/2166bcaf/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 18:31:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980707233144.26765.qmail@hotmail.com> That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, +5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what the difference is? >I don't know much about Amigas, but I beleive the mouse is a >quadrature-output mouse - what the PC crowd call a Bus mouse (and not a >serial mouse or PS/2 mouse). These mice are pretty generic apart from the >connector wiring. If you're prepared to change the connector (and trace >out the connections) then you can move these mice between systems. > >In the UK you can get replacement quadrature mice from Maplin - either 2 >button for the Amiga or 3 button for the Atari ST. I've modified these to >work on a Mac+, an old Amstrad that used a bus mouse, a Whitechapel MG1, >an Acorn Archimedes, etc. They're not cheap (about 3 times the price of a >PC serial mouse :-(), but they are available. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:03:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 7, 98 03:48:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/a831d095/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 7 19:01:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Terminals Message-ID: <35A2B6F5.790C707B@bbtel.com> as you might guess, the VT220 w/o keyboard is spoken for. The others still need homes though. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:22:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 7, 98 05:53:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/14bb9edb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 18:26:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 7, 98 06:19:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 990 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/5bb357be/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 17:48:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980707124733.00c1c790@pc> from "John Foust" at Jul 7, 98 12:47:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980707/2ce2017c/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 7 19:51:20 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807080051.AA05781@world.std.com> >Eh? While the command set of the UDA50 is MSCP, I wasn't aware that MSCP >command packets were sent to RA drives. I don't see why it would be >impossible to make an SDI controller that used some other command set. Sorry, I was talking at a different abstract level.. just like the RQZX1 talks MSCP on the host side, and SCSI on the disk side, the UDA50 talks MSCP on the host side... I've never worried about what it actually talks on the disk side... >IMHO the RL11 is dumber than the RK11. For one thing the RK11 supports >spiral reads/writes. And to move heads you load the disk address register >with the cylinder you want to go to, not the number of cylinders you want >to move. With the RL11 you've got to remember where you are. Not just that, but the driver is responsible for trying offsets from the center track in case a read fails... Back when we first added support for the RL01/02 to RT-11, it was explained to us that with the RL11, some of the smarts are moved out to each disk unit. This way the controller doesn't have to have all the smarts... supposedly more cost-effective (?!) Anyway, if you lose track of where you are, you have to reset to track zero and re-seek. There are several offsets (positive and negative) that the driver is supposed to try when it fails to read (and maybe write) a block. As already mentioned, the driver has to take care of track to track changes... which means that the driver has to take a user request and process it as multiple single-track operations until complete... Where the RK driver was simple, the RL driver was a PITA... and the convolutions in the MSCP handler are even more impressive... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Jul 7 22:33:11 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 References: <199807070702.AAA12421@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A2E876.C5D11F0F@goldrush.com> Sam Ismail wrote: >Could someone please describe the features of a PET 2001 for me? Thanks. > > Depends on the PET 2001, the earlier ones had a smallish calculator type keyboard with an integeral datasette unit. Newer models had a full sized keyboard and no built-in datasette. All of the 2001 series had 9"display, earlier ones displaying whitish-blue the rest gool 'ol green phosphor. The original BASIC (Powers up with *** COMMODORE BASIC ***) has neumerous bugs and lacked disk support the upgrade BASIC (### COMMODORE BASIC ###) had many bug fixes and is very close to 64 BASIC in operation and syntax. There are two motherboards associated with the 2001 the 8k static ram motherboard (only in original PETs) which was limited to 8k ram and used MOS RAMs (Which they soon stopped producing, they just weren't good at memory chips) and the later Dynamic RAM boards which were expandible to 32k. If you need more info there are a couple links: The PET FAQ geared for the recent or general owner of a Classic PET: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.html and The PET Index for the Technical sort of person who wants to know what makes em tick! http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~fachat/8bit/petindex/petindex.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Jul 7 18:35:51 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apricots, etc Message-ID: <199807080340.XAA08215@smtp.interlog.com> OK,for any of you blokes over in blighty I saw this post on Obsolete Computer Helpline. PLEASE DIRECT QUERIES TO THE POSTER BELOW ciao larry >Trig >Salisbury, Wilts U.K. - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 17:15:08 > I have a small collection of 10 - 15yr old apricots, xen, xi and >various other related bits. > Can anyone help me find a home for these cute computers? lwalker@interlog.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Jul 7 22:54:22 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apple and Commodore Computers References: <199807070702.AAA12421@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A2ED6D.711CD190@goldrush.com> > I'd like to do some assembly language programming on my Apple //+. What > program was generally used to do AL programming? Did you typically use the > built-in Monitor, or was there an "Apple Assembler" program? > As for assemblers for the 64 if you want to do on-the-fly assembly Supermon is cool, there is a version of it in just about all the popular super utility cartridges (i.e. Super Snapshot, Final Cartridge, etc.) As far as more quality (disk based) assemblers I would go with Lew Lasher's Editor Assembler (circa 1985, hard to find, freeware, and nice) or Merlin (especially Merlin 128 for the Commodore 128). Both are good ones to learn with. There are other like Buddy, PAL, Bettwe Working, etc. but those use the BASIC interpreter to code (line numbers and all.) > Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where > a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. I think the person added it himself. There are four flavors of the Commodore 64. Commodore 64 - The original unit, roundy brownish-grey case dk. brown keyboard, a good machine. Commodore 64c - The updated (low-profile lt.cream case, white keys) cost reduced model unlike other reponses no voices were removed. The story is Commodore did a 'bug fix' on the sound chip that affected games that utilized a perceived flaw on the sound chip that made digitized sound playback easy, on the 64c you can barely hear the digitized segments. Commodore SX-64 - the Commodore 64 in a luggable all-in-one unit included 64, 5" color display, built-in 1541 disk drive and audio speaker. Pretty cool, used original C64 chips though Commodore altered the ROMs to better support the built in drive at the sacrifice of cassette support (and compatibility with some programs and hardware that required it.) Commodore-128 - One of the facets of the Commodore 128 is the C64 mode, the chips reflect the older 64 and is 99.94% perfect in emulation except for one memory location which can bump the computer into 2mgz mode thereby messing up the display provided by the 1mghz 40 column display chip. :/ Some earlier games inadvertanly activate this mode. If I wanted to do only 64 stuff the original grey 64 is the one to get. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 7 22:52:33 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980707233144.26765.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout >charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, >+5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what >the difference is? Off the top of my head it might have something to do with the layout of the keys, and a different number of keys. I do know that they are incompatible, although you can get a device to allow you to connect a PC Keyboard, I believe it costs about as much to get the adapter as it would to get a keyboard (go figure). The following page has links to most all of the web pages dealing with Amiga Hardware issues http://www.cucug.org/amihardware.html This is probably the page that will be the most help http://209.167.144.59/Technical.html Also See http://home.worldcom.ch/~jjuiller/docs_en.html NOTE: The Amiga 2000 was released in 1987 and is therefore a valid topic of discussion as it is 11 years old. The Amiga 500 was released the same year. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 8 03:16:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My ET-3400 is 99% on its way to living again. I found some 7-seg LEDs that seem to work, and I've done some simple logic tests that check-out OK. I still have no ROM for the thing, but that didn't stop any of the old Altair hackers, so.... How hard would it be (for a software guy) to replace the ROM with something else, say, a parallel cable from a PC that fed data through the ROM socket? The clock is already very slow, 500KHz, I think, but I could slow it to 1HZ if it would help. Could I software decode the address, do whatever handshaking I need to do from the TTL-levels on LPT1, and emulate a ROM without buying a ROM emulator? -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 07:44:40 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <199807081031.MAA02766@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>What is the pinout of the 23-pin port? > Max, your message consisted of one line of question with > dozens of lines of previous message. Please consider editing > out the parts you don't need. True > Also, there are dozens of web pages with the pinouts of the various > Amigas. Did you try a web search before you replied? I entered > "23 pin port amiga" in Hotbot and got 1,970 hits, many valid. Ever tried this for PET (a classic in any sense) ? > Is the Amiga a valid topic for the mailing list? Surely the > first models fit the ten-year-rule, but the A2000 falls short > by at least a year or two. There are other resources > you can tap - the Amiga news groups out-post the classic groups > by at least an order of magnitude, and that's only counting > the English-speaking groups. Shure, there are resources for anything, including a lot of obsolete computer things beside this list, but if you want to take this 10 year gudeline the hard way, you'll have to cut out any discusion about CGA for exampe - they are still in production. And fr the Amiga 2000 - I have two in my collection and considere them vintage :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 05:36:44 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 7, 98 08:52:33 pm Message-ID: <199807081036.GAA23312@user2.infinet.com> > > >That's correct. Now, the interesting thing is that according to pinout > >charts, the keyboard cables are the same (clock, data, not used, ground, > >+5). However, the keyboards are not compatible. Does anyone know what > >the difference is? > > Off the top of my head it might have something to do with the layout of the > keys, and a different number of keys. Different microcontrollers. Completely different protocol. > I do know that they are > incompatible, although you can get a device to allow you to connect a PC > Keyboard, I believe it costs about as much to get the adapter as it would > to get a keyboard (go figure). There are a couple of quick-n-dirty hacks out on Aminet (wuarchive.wustl.edu/~aminet). I am not aware of any pre-made adapters which are significantly cheaper than $50USD. -ethan From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 08:07:36 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Apple and Commodore Computers Message-ID: <199807081054.MAA04603@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Second, has anyone heard of a Commodore C64k?? I found a news post where >> a guy had two of these available, but I don't recognize the "k" suffix. > I think the person added it himself. > There are four flavors of the Commodore 64. > Commodore 64 - The original unit, roundy brownish-grey case dk. brown > keyboard, a good machine. And the brown and the beige case versions ad of course the golden. > Commodore 64c - The updated (low-profile lt.cream case, white keys) cost > reduced model unlike other reponses no voices were removed. The story is > Commodore did a 'bug fix' on the sound chip that affected games that utilized > a perceived flaw on the sound chip that made digitized sound playback easy, on > the 64c you can barely hear the digitized segments. This unit was also called C64-II. And remember the gray case version. > Commodore SX-64 - the Commodore 64 in a luggable all-in-one unit included 64, > 5" color display, built-in 1541 disk drive and audio speaker. Pretty cool, > used original C64 chips though Commodore altered the ROMs to better support > the built in drive at the sacrifice of cassette support (and compatibility > with some programs and hardware that required it.) Don't forget the DX. > Commodore-128 - One of the facets of the Commodore 128 is the C64 mode, the > chips reflect the older 64 and is 99.94% perfect in emulation except for one > memory location which can bump the computer into 2mgz mode thereby messing up > the display provided by the 1mghz 40 column display chip. :/ Some earlier > games inadvertanly activate this mode. And speaking of the 128 (Which I don't considere a C64) there are at least two versions of the 120D with detatched keyboard. > If I wanted to do only 64 stuff the original grey 64 is the one to get. :) Gruss H. P.S.: Nice PET - FAQ -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 06:12:09 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 8, 98 00:22:54 am Message-ID: <199807081112.HAA23621@user2.infinet.com> > I don't know how 'official' it is, but my 11/730 came with a BA11-K, a > sheilded cable with 3 header sockets on each end, a set of cabinet kits > to plug it into, and the associated internal cables/paddleboards. I > believe it is an official setup, and I think I have the DEC installation > instructions for it somewhere. Wow! When I was using a production 11/730, we _never_ had anything that fancy. We just strung the tape cable out of the side. > > Good luck. It's a VAX, but the doggiest VAX there is. At least it sucks > > less than 15 amps. > > It's also one of the 2 VAXen (The other being the 11/780) that's almost > all standard components, so it can be repaired and kept running. And I > don't have space for an 11/780... One of the 11/730 boards (I forget the M number) uses 4 2901 bit-slice processors. At that VAX shop, we burned through several sets of boards over the years, it being cheaper to buy a used VAX at the time than get a single board repaired at depot prices. I scavenged the 2901's from one board to stick in a friend's BattleZone (6502 with 16-bit vector co-processor made from a pair of 2901's, et al.). It may be repairable, but it's still dirt slow. We used to use ours to link our product under VMS 5 (the VMS 4.x product was compiled and linked on our "fast" computer, a 11/750 (which I still have in storage)). -ethan From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 07:30:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 Message-ID: <199807081230.AA14439@world.std.com> < old Altair hackers, so.... How hard would it be (for a software guy) to < replace the ROM with something else, say, a parallel cable from a PC that < fed data through the ROM socket? not easy at all. You really need to make or buy an eprom emulator that can do 6830 (an oddball pinout). < The clock is already very slow, 500KHz, I think, but I could slow it to < 1HZ if it would help. Could I software decode the address, do whatever < handshaking I need to do from the TTL-levels on LPT1, and emulate a ROM < without buying a ROM emulator? Not possible, there is a minimum clock spec as the internal registers are dynamic and would forget. Allison From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 09:08:22 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <199807072031.UAA14799@cyber2.servtech.com> <199807072143.VAA16384@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35A37D56.F859D0EE@polygon.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > >extreme distances between the disks and the controllers (up to 50', if > memory serves). Subsequent > > Hmmm, if I have a space problem this may mean I could have the 11/34 in one > corner of my basement and the drive in a diagonal corner out of the way? > (about 20-25 feet) No problem, if you have cables long enough, or enough junction boxes to stretch them. I wouldn't recommend going diagonally, though, since the cables are thick and unforgiving. Go around the walls.-- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 09:12:10 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs References: <199807072153.RAA17928@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I don't know what variety you got, but the R80 (RB80) in the rack with some > VAX-11/730's is a cheap and easy disk to use. Slow, but supported. I > have one in storage. The 11/730 is the slowest UNIBUS machine made (along > with the 11/725, same CPU, different box), .3 to .4 VUPs (the 11/780 and > MicroVAX II are the benchmark, about 1 VUP). You can't officially extend the > UNIBUS, but unofficially, I have attached a BA11 to a 730. It works, but > there are no shielded cables to stay FCC compliant with. Just a few notes: The VUP is based on the speed of the 11/780 alone. The MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUP. > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're similar, however.... > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well worth the cost. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 09:21:28 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: [...] > > > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. > > Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're similar, however.... It is almost completely 4.2 BSD with some exceptions. > > > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. > > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well worth the cost. > > -- > J. Buck Caldwell > > Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster > Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 > PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 > St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 8 10:10:02 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980708101002.00c32df0@pc> Forwarded from the Greenkeys mailing list. Current bid is $56... - John Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0400 From: "Charles A. Days" Organization: Old Radio Days To: Major Domo Subject: [GreenKeys] Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW interface Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net Hi, I am auctioning off my entire Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 & 1000 collection. I had used it for program development way back when. As well as Ham radio RTTY/CW. Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20430855 From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 10:15:15 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980708101002.00c32df0@pc> Message-ID: Ahh, there goes my bid! Dan On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, John Foust wrote: > > Forwarded from the Greenkeys mailing list. Current bid is $56... > > - John > > Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0400 > From: "Charles A. Days" > Organization: Old Radio Days > To: Major Domo > Subject: [GreenKeys] Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW > interface > Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net > > Hi, > I am auctioning off my entire Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 & 1000 collection. > I had used it for program development way back when. As well as Ham > radio RTTY/CW. Go to: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20430855 > > > From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 12:37:28 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <199807081523.RAA26718@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Ahh, there goes my bid! This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 10:29:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: TI99: Re: TIer since... Message-ID: <199807081529.AA26150@world.std.com> < all over the US. I went to one and I drooled all over a VAX with a < couple of winchester cabinets, 9 track tape drives, and a big terminal They can be big. Myself I run a slew of baby vaxen (2000s, 3100s and Q-bus Microvaxen). < server. My boss told me I should bid $1.00 on it. I joked and said, "If < I did that I might get it!" heheheh They make you haul the stuff off if That's their revenge. Allison From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 8 10:31:10 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW In-Reply-To: <199807081523.RAA26718@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: Please don't, that's my bid! :) Dan On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Hans Franke wrote: > > Ahh, there goes my bid! > > This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv > parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. > > Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK > From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 8 12:47:49 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: FW: Auctioning Timex/Sinclair ZX-80,81 1000 w/RTTY&CW Message-ID: <199807081534.RAA27313@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> Ahh, there goes my bid! >> This lot includes some real nice parts and collectiv >> parts .... and the bid already reached 76 USD. >> Shoud we start a bidding war ? :(( > Please don't, that's my bid! :) So, lets see how far I could push the price for you. 150 ? 200 ? ... :( H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 8 10:46:56 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <35A37E3A.4BFD7E7@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 8, 98 09:12:10 am Message-ID: <199807081546.LAA28109@user2.infinet.com> > > Just a few notes: The VUP is based on the speed of the 11/780 alone. The > MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUP. Yes, the 11/780 is a smidge faster than the uVAXII, however, I've seen .95 VUP for the uVAXII, so I rounded up. > > > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, 1.1. > > Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that they're > similar, however.... No... I meant that the foundation for Ultrix _is_ BSD 4.2. I have loaded MicroUltrix, and Ultrix 1.1 through 2.3, and have install kits up through Ultrix 4.3 at least. It's BSD with a lot of DECisms on top of it (DEC disk drive geometries, DEC package tools, DEC gimme apps like 2780). > > We always used a tu80 on our 11/730. There are other drives you can use, > > but that was the cheapest way for us to go. > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well > worth the cost. I haven't seen one that I could afford. I'd love to have SCSI on *any* VAX. I'd even considered building my own (I used to manufacture a Q-Bus/Unibus/VAXBI line of synchronous serial cards based on the 68000). The thing that held me back was a lack of knowledge of how to emulate an MSCP device with something that is *not* register compatible with an RQDX[123] or UDA50. I have written VMS device drivers from scratch, but not _disk_ device drivers. -ethan From buck_c at polygon.com Wed Jul 8 11:06:42 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs References: <199807081546.LAA28109@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35A39912.900822A5@polygon.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Best way to go: Find a Unibus SCSI controller. Rare, expensive, but well > > worth the cost. > > I haven't seen one that I could afford. I'd love to have SCSI on *any* VAX. > I'd even considered building my own (I used to manufacture a Q-Bus/Unibus/VAXBI > line of synchronous serial cards based on the 68000). The thing that held me > back was a lack of knowledge of how to emulate an MSCP device with something > that is *not* register compatible with an RQDX[123] or UDA50. I have written > VMS device drivers from scratch, but not _disk_ device drivers. Personally, if it came to building a board from scratch, I'd have to say I'd prefer a MSCP compatible Dual IDE controller. Drives are cheaper. I can just see sticking four 5g IDE drives into my BA123 - 20 g of space, for less than a grand. Gee, I wonder if the power supply could handle it (snicker). There are MSCP docs somewhere out their on the web - or you could talk to the NetBSD-vax people, I believe at least one of them has the MSCP handbook. I'd buy it if you built it. (well, a Q-bus version, anyway) -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Wed Jul 8 11:37:46 1998 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Fw: museun? mag disk? Message-ID: <000301bdaa8e$bcf39580$104e53c2@MIS2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Please contact poster directly Phil Baumeister wrote in message <6nuqu8$qi8$2@ultra.sonic.net>... > please remove -nospam when replying > > i would like to find a home for a > 2314 magnetic disk file drive > that was once (1968) mounted > on IBM 360 main frames. > > items that are 20 years old are > junk and are trashed. but this > is 30 years old. where should > it end up? > > any suggestions? > > phil baumeister > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 11:36:54 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 Message-ID: <19980708163655.14083.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, thank you, but here is a question that wasn't answered by the pinout: how do I double the frequency to 30hz, which is the lowest my monitor can do, according to the manual? >It would take less bandwidth to actually answer the question, so here you >are. > >1 XCLK* (External video clock) >2 XCLKEN* (External video clock enable) >3 Red (Analogue red video output) >4 Green >5 Blue >6 DI (Digital (TTL) intensity output) >7 DB (TTL blue output) >8 DG (TTL green) >9 DR (TTL Red) >10 CSync* (Composite sync) >11 HSync* (Horizontal sync) >12 VSync* (Vertical sync) >13 GNDRTN (Digital ground) >14 ZD* >15 C1* (Clock output) >16-20 Ground >21 -12V @ 50mA >22 +12V @ 100mA >23 +5V @ 100mA > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 11:38:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807081638.AA11579@world.std.com> < Personally, if it came to building a board from scratch, I'd have to say I < compatible Dual IDE controller. Drives are cheaper. I can just see stickin < my BA123 - 20 g of space, for less than a grand. Gee, I wonder if the powe < (snicker). There are MSCP docs somewhere out their on the web - or you cou < people, I believe at least one of them has the MSCP handbook. I'd buy it i < Q-bus version, anyway) A IDE controller for Qbus is fairly straightforward if your willing to have a little local intelligence for cache and dma management. If your willing to write a non-MSCP VMS driver or unix driver for it. Adding MSCP may make it more difficult as there is far more taskwork. Doing it as scsi is not much worse... it's the scsi controllers and the associated software that are a pain. Allison From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 8 12:03:15 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: ISC Intecolor 8051 Circa 1978 Message-ID: <1998Jul08.130215.1767.117236@smtp.itgonline.com> I recently rescued an Intelligent Systems Corp. model 8051 Intecolor terminal/pc, s/n 5013 from the side of a road (there were several printers which first caught my eye, this unit has a wood grained plastic cover which first made me think it was an old window air conditioner as it was face down and covered with other junk). I saw this advertised in the February and December issues of Byte Magazine as a model 8001. The December 76 Byte ad states this is an intelligent terminal that can be upgraded to a personal computer by adding Basic and extra ram (this appears to have been upgraded). I had never seen one of these in person before and didn't realize how massive they are: 17" high by 19 1/2 " wide by 22" deep, weighing at least 50 pounds (although I haven't weighed it). The tube is a 19" color. There are 9 slots inside with a CPU/I/O/Keyboard board (Intel 8080A), memory, additional memory board, prom board (with Basic and others) plus a floppy controller. Ports (DB25) are J1 Modem, J2 Floppy Tape, J3 Keyboard, J4 24 Bit I/O (this port is blank actually),J5 Floppy Disk, J6 USART (port is blank). Unfortunately there was no keyboard or documentation and outside of the Byte ads I don't know anything about this. Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard and documentation for this? Also the power cable is non-standard, per a friend of mine it was used by typewriter manufacturers and is known as a AC Victor cable. Thanks, Marty From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 8 12:20:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <13370057691.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new login program). The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large mainframes. Where can I find information about it? Oh, if you want to see the results of my screwing around (And my first hackery in C that ever worked!) telnet at ubani.umtec.com. ------- From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 8 14:01:56 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Right. Lets hope my mail software (Lotus Cack-Mail) doesn't crash just as I get near the end of this reply, as it did last time. First, all concerned should glance at Larry A's PET faq, the address of which he posted a few messages ago. Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 7, 6:29, Doug Spence wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Olminkhof wrote: >> > 8" screen >> >> Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my >> father's bedroom at this hour. > > 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". I agree with Pete, not that it makes much difference. >> Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen >> one. No. Never. 12 inch screen on 4032 (or possibly 4016) and above only. >> I'm looking at an old copy (don't have a recent one on file) of Jim >> Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" and notice that one of my >> PETs doesn't match any model on the list. From this list: >> >> PET 2001-4K 4kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Black Trim. >> PET 2001-8K 8kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen >> PET 2001-16K 16kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen >> PET 2001-32K 32kB, Chiclet Keys, Built-In Cassette, Blue Trim, 9" screen First PETS: 2001-4 and 2001-8 (also called 4k PET and 8k PET). Blue trim, blue-white phosphor, mangled and rebadged cassette (I can't remember whose) that you open by lifting the lid. Then: 2001-4 and 2001-8 get Black trim and C2N cassette deck Then: Green screen. Next was the ROM upgrade. Usual models were 2001-8N, 2001-16N, 2001-32N, 2001-8B, 2001-16B and 2001-32B. These had full-sized keyboards and external C2N decks. In the UK, 2001-8N with tiny keyboard and built in C2N was common. This was not a new motherboard in an old case - the case was a different shape (slightly less tall). Larry has suggested that these might be the 2001-8K, K standing for Calculator (-style keyboard) (sic). All of these had small screens. >> PET 2001B-8 8kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001B-16 16kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001B-32 32kB, Business Style, no Graphics on Keys, 12" screen >> PET 2001N-8 8kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys >> PET 2001N-16 16kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, 12" screen, Num. Keys >> PET 2001N-32 32kB, Home Computer, Graphics on Keys, BASIC 4.0, Num. Keys. >> PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged I've never heard of 2001NT. AFAIK, N = Non business keyboard. The top row of keys was !"#$%^&'() like the tiny keyboard machines - numbers were only on the number pad. B = Business keyboard. Top row of keys was 1234567890, shift gave you !"# etc. This meant you couldn't get some of the "graphics" characters that came from shift-! etc. Hence the reference to "Num. Keys" above. > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. Strange. Full size keyboard with graphics symbols should be 2001-8N > I don't think Jim's list is quite correct. For a start, there were lots > of 2001 PETs with 9" screen and the graphics keyboard, without the Nor do I. All 2001 PETs had 9 inch screens. > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit later. > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of > course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > upper- or lower-case. Was it? That's weird! Even weirder, though, was the lower case implementation. Take a couple of steps back and get a wider view: PET had two internal character codes. Screen codes and "ASCII". Screen codes went from 0 to 127, and didn't include control codes; they then went from 128 to 255 in "reverse field" (inverse video). Bit 6 (the 64s bit) told you whether it was a shifted character or not. 0 to 31 were @, ABC...Z, [\], up arrow, left arrow. 32 to 63 were conventional ASCII. 64 to 127 were the graphics characters you got from shifting these. First problem - nowhere for lower case. PET, in translating ASCII (or PETSCII as it became known) into screen codes, didn't bother to implement lower case. First it checked for control codes (0 to 31 and 128 to 159) and then it ANDed the ASCII code with 63 and stuck it on the screen. Well, sort of. The ASCII codes for the shifted characters were displaced from the unshifted ones by 128 instead of 64. Now, lower case mode. Early PETs kept the bottom 128 ASCII codes exactly as they were. Lower case went in the top 128 - NOT where you'd conventionally put it (those who followed the algorithm above will have worked out that the conventional ASCII codes for lower case would display space, !"#$ etc.). Since lower case was implemented in the character generator only - an I/O pin went to an address line on the character ROM - you had to use SHIFT to get LOWER case. And that was the second problem. Later PETS swapped lower and upper case letters. So now ASCII codes 65 and up, which still mapped onto screen codes 1 and up, gave LOWER case letters, but you pressed SHIFT for upper case. However the OS and BASIC (one and the same, really) treated unshifted as letters, and shifted as meaningless graphics characters, whichever mode you were in. Confused? It is, isn't it! >> Note that at least the early PET 2001 machines came with a white display. >> I think some of the 'newer' ones came with green phosphor instead.(?) > > My 2001-8K is white phosphor. The full-size-keyboard ones were green. The common arrangement. But the colour change predated the ROM and Keyboard Size changes. Just. >> But there's a lot more to 'features' than outward appearance. The machine >> uses a 1.0MHz 6502. It has an 80-pin memory expansion port on the right >> side (the 40 pins on the top side are all ground). There's an external >> cassette interface at the back, for TAPE #2. > > On the later models, that's TAPE#1 and the TAPE#2 is an internal connector. > >> There's an IEEE-488 aka GPIB, HPIB >> interface on the back that was used for printers, disk drives, modems, and >> probably other stuff. There's a user port on the back which is similar to >> the user port on the VIC-20/C64. IEEE-488 to RS232 converters were very popular here, since PET had no serial port. Alternatively, software could be written to drive a pin on the user port serially. I know. I've done it. >> The original ROMs don't have a monitor or support a disk drive, but ugrade "Don't support a disk drive" is a euphemism for so many bugs you can't use it at all! >> ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... >> I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts It says "COMMODORE BASIC 4.0" but I can't remember whether between *** or ###. >> up. Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them >> whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) Indeed. Type WAIT 6502,100 > There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade > ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the > disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but > otherwise it's almost the same as 3. I have heard all sorts of numbering schemes for BASIC versions. The only thing they agree on is 4. AFAIK, the BASIC in 3008 and friends was identical to the upgrade ROMs that went in original PETs. > Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. That clears up my mystery above. Thank you. >> It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that >> operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 >> and C64, but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character >> set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was >> it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) > > All those POKEs are ROM-version-dependent. Wrong, I'm afraid. POKE 59468, 12 (UC/graphics) and POKE 59486,14 (LC) are INDEPENDENT of ROM version. On 8032/8096, 8296 and Fat 40 you can use PRINT CHR$(14) and PRINT CHR$(142) (CTRL-N and CTRL-SHIFT-N except that PET never had a control key) to change between the modes. These codes also change to wide line spacing in LC mode, which the pokes don't. Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Jul 8 14:09:02 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <9806088999.AA899950256@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. > Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP > logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX > actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new > login program). Fun! Now you need to write cmsh. > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? Virtual Machine System Product. I'll have a look thro' my IBM junk at home this evening, but I don't think I've got much on it. IBM draw boundaries in different places, but under VM operating system (CP, Control Program) usually ran CMS Conversational Monitor System - a bit like a shell, hence my pun above... The first scripting language for VM/CMS was CMS EXEC. I never used it but I understand it was awful. Later came EXEC2 - lots of & characters (I think - or were they % characters?) to identify names, or reserved words, or something. This was still the official scripting language when I encountered VM, but I, like everyone else, used REXX. This has exhausted my memory - I'm off home. Philip. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 8 13:34:42 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk "Re[2]: PET 2001" (Jul 8, 19:01) References: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <9807081934.ZM2302@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 8, 19:01, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > I've never heard of 2001NT. I have, but I don't think I've seen one. Unless it's actually identical to another model :-) > AFAIK, N = Non business keyboard. The top row of keys was !"#$%^&'() > like the tiny keyboard machines - numbers were only on the number pad. > > B = Business keyboard. Top row of keys was 1234567890, shift gave you > !"# etc. This meant you couldn't get some of the "graphics" characters > that came from shift-! etc. That refreshes my memory. There's a POKE to get the graophics but the default is as described. > Nor do I. All 2001 PETs had 9 inch screens. That's what I thought, but I didn't want to be to dogmatic (just for a change :-)) > > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions > > Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit > later. Not absolutely sure, but around that time the local authority was buying a lot of PETs and I never saw a 3000 less than 16K, and never saw a business-keyboard 2001. > > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > > with a 12" screen, at least in the UK (USA might easily be different, of > > course), and that's borne out by my manuals. The 12" screen version was > > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). > > Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware > and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, > making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... Hmm, that does sound more likely. Come to think of it, the 8000 were the fiorst I saw with a 12" screen as well. > > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > > upper- or lower-case. > > Was it? That's weird! Yes :-) > Even weirder, though, was the lower case implementation. [ snip ] > Confused? It is, isn't it! I remember it caused som amusement with non_PET printers. > IEEE-488 to RS232 converters were very popular here, since PET had no serial > port. Alternatively, software could be written to drive a pin on the user port > serially. I know. I've done it. I've done that too. And there were a few serial converters, as Philip says. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 13:05:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807081112.HAA23621@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 8, 98 07:12:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/251447dd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 12:43:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807080051.AA05781@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 7, 98 08:51:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2329 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/f65335bf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 13:12:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 In-Reply-To: <19980708163655.14083.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 8, 98 09:36:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/dda2bde3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 12:47:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 8, 98 03:16:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/013b986b/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 15:19:00 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807082021.UAA07364@cyber2.servtech.com> At 18:19 07-07-98 -0400, mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote: > -- snip -- > >>Looks like a J-11 chip on the CPU board in an 11/23 chassis that was >>buried in the pile (darn little thing was so small compared to the 5000+ >>pounds of other boxen that I forgot to mention it in my first msg.) >>That's basically an 11/73 isn't it? > >You don't mean an '11/23' chassis... it may be a BA23, or a BA123 (or >a BA-11). If you have a J-11 chip on a board, we'll need to know >more about the board. Is it dual high? (KDJ11-A -- 11/73A). Is it >quad high? (KDJ11-B -- 11/73B or 11/83, KDJ11-D -- 11/53, or KDJ11-E -- >11/93). Is there memory on the board? (KDJ11-D or KDJ11-E) Is there >a space for a 40-pin chip? (FP chip, KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B) etc. > >Then again, you could tell us the M-number and we could tell you what >it is... :-) I took a look at that board last evening. It's indeed an 11/73 as the module # is M8192-YB. Thanks to the "Field Guide to Q-bus and Unibus Modules" found at sunsite.unc.edu I found this mentioned. I had just found that FG @ sunsite:) That field guide is *really* handy! However, no maintenance has been done on it since 1995 it seems. I have five M-numbers to add that I found in the 11/34A which are not on the list. They are for the five-board set designated as "RK611". This RK611 is the controller set for the RK07 drives which were hung onto the machine. The #'s are M7900 thru M7904, inclusive. Any of you know if either this guide is just stagnant or is there a fully maintained, up-to-date version anywhere? The 11/23 chassis I have is the small 5" high chassis which has the plastic bezel and several switches on the front panel which says it's an 11/23. I did not have time to pick it up and find the BA# yet. I'll inventory the other boards in it tonite if I am allowed into the garage;) --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 8 15:44:25 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VM/SP In-Reply-To: <13370057691.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Jul 8, 98 10:20:25 am Message-ID: <199807082044.QAA04052@shell.monmouth.com> > > This started as a joke, but turned into something interesting. > Someone posted on alt.os.multics about setting a UNIX to pop up the VM/SP > logo from /etc/issue. I did one better and crocked up a way to make UNIX > actually act like VM/SP at the logon (Mutilated copy of telnetd and a new login program). > > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? > > Oh, if you want to see the results of my screwing around (And my first > hackery in C that ever worked!) telnet at ubani.umtec.com. Slick... Looks like the Profs login I had at IBM. Here's mine... I've got a case of VAX/VMS envy. The motd quotes are from the BSD Fortune program. One day I hope for real FreeVMS at home. (although I'm quite happy with FreeBSD...) $telnet localhost Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. FreeVMS 1.0 alpha (i4got) (ttyp3) Username: pechter Password: Last login: Wed Jul 8 16:30:48 from algw2.lucent.com Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD i4got.pechter.org 2.2.6-STABLE-Fri Jun 5 21:45:21 EDT 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Quotations from chairman Ken | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." -- Ken Olsen, President of DEC, World Future Society Convention, 1977 -+-+=-+- One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines. Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. It's great for students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs between different machines. And so, because of its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s. It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming. With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all there. -+-+=-+- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a James Bond | | villain." -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 15:54:23 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: References: <199807071950.TAA13689@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807082056.UAA08552@cyber2.servtech.com> At 00:03 08-07-98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> Still busy rummaging through the truckload of PDPs and VAXen and >> peripherals and manuals, etc. >> >> I'm looking for any info sources to learn more about a VAX 11/730. FAQs are > >I've got one, but I've not done much with it, due to lack of technical >info, like a printset. And it's something of a big job to figure it all >out on my own... Yeah, anybody out there got any printsets, operating manuals or *anything* for our 730s? Meanwhile, virtually *no* other additional info has turned up either in my searches or results of my query to the list of yesterday. > >> I know I have probably found a good home for the 11/750 but I am >> considering keeping the 730. First I need to do a heap of studying to check >> the completeness of the box and to more fully understand what peripherals > >Now, this is digging into the depths of my memory, so I'm probably going >to get something wrong, but IIRC... > >The box has a cardage on the left. On the right there's a PSU on top, and >a TU58 (strange layout, but otherwise a stock TU58) underneath. One tape >drive is on the front, the other (used for the system microcode) is on >the right side of the chassis. On this particular model of 11/730, both TU58's are side-by-side on the front. We can compare serial numbers which may, if the numbers make any chronological sense, tell us which style was earlier (I suspect the side-by-side was later.) > >There are 12 slots. At the top is the Integrated Disk controller (uses >the CPU logic for much of the functionality). It'll control an R80 (Much >modified SMD interface!), and RL drives. The next slot is for an optional >floating point board, and may be empty. The next 3 slots are the CPU >logic - don't ask me to remember what goes where!. The next 4 (?) slots >are for memory boards, and maybe unibus devices as well. The remaining >slots are Unibus slots. As standard a DMF32 (serial and parallel port) >card should be in one of them. It's not required, but VMS probably >expects it. I'll try to get time to inventory the cards in the crate tonite and pass the list of M-numbers on to the list. By comparing what-is-where, maybe we can see if my box is somewhat complete. Input is very welcome from the others on the list. IIRC, with just a brief look inside, most of the slots were occupied. Three or four were empty I think. I'm hopeful the field guide I mentioned in the PDP thread has all these modules listed. Also, I'm hopeful the machine is complete although I know the Ethernet controller has been swiped as the ribbon cable from the connector panel in back is just hanging loose in the crate. > >> and accessories I that should keep (which are already setting in the >> garage) or to search for. > >IF you don't have an R80, keep at least one RL drive, and some other >Unibus drive subsystem... RL01's and -02's, RK07's and a single RA60 are the only drives I have available. Both RA81's are spoken for I think. The RL01's and RL02's are not practical from a capacity standpoint to run VMS on the 730 I feel (*especially* the 5 MB RL01's!) You mention an R80 drive above. Do you actually mean RA80? Thanks agian for your valuable input! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 8 16:43:23 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: References: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> At 00:26 08-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> >Please tell me about this disk I/F. Any FAQ on it somewhere? >> >> RA60 is a removable disk, part of the RA series of MSCP (mas storage >> communications protocol) disks... MSCP is a Digital proprietary > >Eh? While the command set of the UDA50 is MSCP, I wasn't aware that MSCP >command packets were sent to RA drives. I don't see why it would be >impossible to make an SDI controller that used some other command set. > >> >Also, I would like to find the same tech info or descriptions on the MSCP >> >interface which I understand the RL01s and RL02s have. >> >> MSCP was used for many disks put out by Digital, but not the RL01 or >> RL02... these disks are smarter than an RK05, but still required > >IMHO the RL11 is dumber than the RK11. For one thing the RK11 supports >spiral reads/writes. And to move heads you load the disk address register >with the cylinder you want to go to, not the number of cylinders you want >to move. With the RL11 you've got to remember where you are. > In a msg sent to the list by me a short while ago, I mentioned a five-board set which was designated RK611 according to text on the foil of side 2 of three of the boards. How is the RK611 interface different from the others? On another subject, in several of the PDP machines here there's an M7856 module (the DL11-W option) designated as "SLU and realtime clock". What exactly does SLU mean in this case? Serial Line Unit? BTW, two M7856 modules are in the 11/34A I'm keeping. One has a hand-written label saying "CONSOLE" and the other is several incomprehensible letters also hand-written. I assume the Operator's Console, such as an LA120 or VT-something is attached to the module labeled "CONSOLE". It does have a cable running from the module connector out to a 25pin "D" connector bolted to the back of the cabinet which in turn has a ten or 15-foot cable attached. There are a group of 16 D25 connectors on the back panel of the machine (cabled to the two M7819's) obviously for the user terminals. Unlike the IBM 9370 and HP 250/30 machines I have, on which the operator's console is attached to one of the corresponding group of user terminal connectors, it seems there typically is a separate serial console connector for the DEC world just for the system operator. Is my thinking correct here? The second M7856, what could that be for? The cable attached to that other M7856 has a connector on the other end with, IIRC, 6 or 7 pins inside a flat, white nylon shell. Length of the cable is about three or four feet. The nylon shell end connects to nothing that I can see anywhere. Another BTW: it seems I have a fairly nice 11/34A that I'm keeping out of that truckload. It has an M8267 FP processor (FP11-A) attached to the KD11-EA processor board pair (M8265 & M8266) along with the M8268 11/34 cache module (KK11-A), etc. I will ask the list more questions about the 11/34A soon as I want to fire her up and check her out. Those questions would be something on the order of "What do I do first, second, next, etc." (told ya I would ask 'newbie-like' questions!) I already see some notes attached to the machine as to bootup sequence but I'm sure I'll have to check with you folks a little first. There are likely disk packs buried in that heap of packs which are called for in that note. There are maybe 75 to 80 packs to rummage through. Just hope they're labeled in some manner!! It was said to run RSX-11M and I gotta crack the manuals on that OS before I get too close to the power switch. Anything I should know or do first before I apply power? Thanks for your help! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 8 17:10:01 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas (for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: Amiga Workbench v1.2 Amiga Kickstart v1.1 Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 Amiga Kickstart v1.2 can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and dump them someplace on the web. -Eric From spc at armigeron.com Wed Jul 8 15:13:25 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 8, 98 05:10:01 pm Message-ID: <199807082013.QAA21176@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Poesie once stated: > > > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas > (for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic > things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > > Amiga Workbench v1.2 > Amiga Kickstart v1.1 > Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 > Amiga Kickstart v1.2 The Kickstart disks are essencially the first stage boot disks and load the basic OS into memory. Later Amigas had most of this OS stored in ROMs and the need for Kickstart disks went away. The Workbench disk is, for lack of a better term, the desktop program (something like the Finder under MacOS, or Explorer under Windows 9x). You would stick in the Kickstart disk, then at the appropriate time, stick in the Workbench disk of the same version. The Extras disk are some simple utilities and programs, which include the Basic interpreter, which isn't worth the space used to store it. It's the only piece of software from Microsoft for the Amiga (I believe) and is fairly buggy and slow. The TV/Text sounds like a program used to generate video text, like movie titles and captions. The Amiga was used quite a bit in the video industry. -spc (Hope this helps some) From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 17:18:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <19980708221813.4638.qmail@hotmail.com> Workbench is the Amiga Graphical Operating System, the synonym of Windows on a PC or Finder on a Mac. Kickstart is a low-level piece of software, that could be on ROM or floppy. I'm sure you can guess what Amiga BasiC is. I don't know about TV/Text. Were there any books? BTW, don't put them on the web, the copyrights still hold. I mean, go ahead if you want to, but Amiga has not made the stuff PD and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is coming up) > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas >(for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic >things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > >Amiga Workbench v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.1 >Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.2 > >can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text >program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and >dump them someplace on the web. > >-Eric > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 17:24:20 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807082224.AA17997@world.std.com> >On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: >[...] >> >> > It will also run Ultrix (BSD UNIX). I recommend an old version, say, >> >1.1. >> >> Um... Ultrix is NOT BSD Unix. You may only have been saying that >>they're similar, however.... > >It is almost completely 4.2 BSD with some exceptions. And those exceptions are the 4.3BSD code which was ported... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 17:29:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs Message-ID: <199807082229.AA21869@world.std.com> < > It may be repairable, but it's still dirt slow. We used to use ours to < < I thought this was classiccmp, and not high-speed-VAX-list :-). It was slow! However people liked them as a machine could be fitted to one 40" rack maybe two and run forever in a closet. That and the VAX archetectures ability to stand heavy loads and slow down gracefully made them good workhorse machines for many tasks. it upside was it used unibus perpherals, compact, ran under 10a@120V and was generally a 24x7x365 machine. For a lot of people they are nice as they get you a "real iron" vax and still fit it in a room. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 15:18:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <9806088999.AA899949896@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 8, 98 07:01:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1346 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980708/81eb5733/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 8 18:52:30 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. Message-ID: <199807082352.AA16263@world.std.com> At 00:26 08-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: < On another subject, in several of the PDP machines here there's an M7856 < module (the DL11-W option) designated as "SLU and realtime clock". What < exactly does SLU mean in this case? Serial Line Unit? Correct SLU= serial line unit and a DLxxxx is a standard serial interface for PDP-11 software. < "CONSOLE". It does have a cable running from the module connector out to < 25pin "D" connector bolted to the back of the cabinet which in turn has a < ten or 15-foot cable attached. Yep, serial console usually a printing console (la120) as printed logs go to console for some OSs (rsts and RSX-11) < There are a group of 16 D25 connectors on the back panel of the machine < (cabled to the two M7819's) obviously for the user terminals. Unlike the Yes, user serial lines one per. < IBM 9370 and HP 250/30 machines I have, on which the operator's console i < attached to one of the corresponding group of user terminal connectors, i < seems there typically is a separate serial console connector for the DEC < world just for the system operator. Is my thinking correct here? The system console is a unique device and all (rare exceptions) pdp11 systems expect it and its address and interrupt will always be the same. < The second M7856, what could that be for? The cable attached to that othe < M7856 has a connector on the other end with, IIRC, 6 or 7 pins inside a < flat, white nylon shell. Length of the cable is about three or four feet. < The nylon shell end connects to nothing that I can see anywhere. another serial line with a current loop (20ma) for some terminal or printer. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 18:45:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807082056.UAA08552@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 8, 98 04:54:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/d604fbe3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 18:59:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 8, 98 05:43:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/dda5a195/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 8 19:01:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Looking for VAX FAQs In-Reply-To: <199807082229.AA21869@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 8, 98 06:29:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/024adc6a/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 8 21:09:50 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software, cont'd. Message-ID: <001601bdaade$a8976e40$bbf449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> OK- another quick question- what model(s) of Amigas would this be used on? also, if I can get a hold of one or some, would it be worth it? -Eric From: Captain Napalm > The Kickstart disks are essencially the first stage boot disks and load >the basic OS into memory. Later Amigas had most of this OS stored in ROMs >and the need for Kickstart disks went away. The Workbench disk is, for lack >of a better term, the desktop program (something like the Finder under >MacOS, or Explorer under Windows 9x). From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 8 20:11:12 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <000b01bdaabd$76001660$96f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: > I ran across a box of 300 disks that were used on a classroom of Amigas >(for an art school.) there's alot of unlabeled stuff, but also cryptic >things like "TV/Text" etc. also, 4 disks that are as follows: > >Amiga Workbench v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.1 >Amiga Extras / Amiga BasiC v1.2 >Amiga Kickstart v1.2 > >can someone give me an idea as to what these are? especially the TV/text >program. if anyone is interested, i could create disk images of these and >dump them someplace on the web. The Amiga disks you list above would be for the Amiga 1000, though the Workbench and Extra's copies can probably be used for the A500 or A2000 if they are running with 1.2 Kickstart ROMs. No idea on TV/Text, but it's probably software for use with a Genlock (a hardware device that let's you layer text over a video signal). There is a lot of software out there for the Amiga, the Aminet archive is currently up to 25 CD's with all different material on each CD. As for creating disk images and putting them on the net, I would advise against it, Amiga Inc. is actively looking for people doing just that, and prosecuting them. For people that need disk images for use in an Emulator, you can buy a legal product called "Amiga Forever" that includes legal copies of the ROMs and Workbench. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 8 20:31:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <199807082145.VAA09789@cyber2.servtech.com> References: <199807072219.AA20837@world.std.com> Message-ID: >It was said to run RSX-11M and I gotta crack the manuals on that OS before >I get too close to the power switch. Anything I should know or do first >before I apply power? It's probably a good idea to check out the Power Supply prior to applying power with the boards in place. If you remove the board make careful notes as to their location. If you don't have the passwords for your RSX-11M distribution you will want to do a DejaNews search on how to bypass them as the system comes up. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Jul 9 01:55:25 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, John Foust wrote: > At 05:15 PM 6/29/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> > >> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? > > > >As far as I know, AOL used to be called AppleLink, which was an Apple > >online service. > > I don't remember if it mutated into AOL, but there once was a > service called QuantumLink that sold branded network services > such as AppleLink and AmigaLink and probably a few more "Links". This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: "Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for Commodore owners. This created a rather awkward situation when Commodore's contract renegotiations with CompuServe came up last summer. The two would, in effect, be competitors." . . . "Why a separate network for Commodore owners? The reason relates not only to providing a machine-specific service, but to the continued health of the whole industry, says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of marketing. 'In order to really expand the market for computers long term, we had to create a dramatically increased utility because it seemed to a lot of people that the computer penetration level has slowed down. Somebody had to create a whole bunch of new ideas why people should buy computers.'" . . . > - John Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From 0513307 at ptfe30.hro.nl Thu Jul 9 04:01:01 1998 From: 0513307 at ptfe30.hro.nl (SMIT) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VB4DOS Message-ID: <377BB5E450D@ptfe30.hro.nl> Hello, i am Michel Smit, I'm a VB5.0 programmer. Once there was a VB4DOS if i'm right. You should have a copy of it. Is it possible for me to recieve a copy of VB4DOS? My ICQ UIN: 3233370 My email: michel.smit@unforgettable.com Thanx already, Michel Smit. P.S. I have lots of software to trade with. From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Jul 9 03:06:07 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi all, I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy them? They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their price was $10 USD. -Dave From yowza at yowza.com Thu Jul 9 03:32:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? FWIW, one day I needed a new bubble. I tracked down the company (MemTech at http://www.memtech.com/) that bought Intel Magnetics, and asked them the price for a new 128K bubble. I think it was $300+. I'll take the bubbles if they're under $5 each. -- Doug From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 9 08:25:31 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980709082531.00bdbb60@pc> At 02:55 AM 7/9/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: > >"Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support >to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for >Commodore owners. [...] says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of >marketing. Wow, that's the guy. I didn't realize the link between QuantumLink and AOL. What I do remember is that their services were incredibly lame in terms of user interface, speed, national network, etc. compared to Compuserve. For a while, Commodore shifted at least its developer support to BIX, Byte's online service. A quick jump to www.bix.com shows it's still alive, run by Delphi. Hunt around in those issues from '87 to '90 or so, especially Compute's Amiga magazine or coverage, and you'll find articles I wrote. For a while, I had a by-lined monthly column there, with my picture and everything. When it first appeared, my fans were shocked to learn I was such a young guy. They thought I was an old portly man with a beard. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Jul 9 08:50:06 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <19980709135006.28022.qmail@hotmail.com> Interesting, I would guess that's for video, not ethernet though. Was it the thick one with the round old-style led or the 'c' thin model? The reason why I ask is that I wonder what they could have fit inside... >They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC >jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their >price was $10 USD. >-Dave > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Jul 9 09:03:13 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Were these mounted on pc type cards or loose? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > Hi all, > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave > > From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Jul 9 11:22:17 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules Message-ID: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> As I told Tony Duell a day or two ago, I would list the modules residing in my 11/730. Point being to compare machines for completeness/options and to get feedback from list members to learn more about what both of us have exactly. I would like to fully restore this machine to it's original completeness although not necessarily its original options/configuration. I'm missing front/rear doors, some hardware, a few modules, misc. items and the all-important TU58 tape which has the bootup microcode(!). Hopefully a fellow who responded privately can find some docs and cabinet parts that he might have which will help for sure. I'll be looking for the rest though. The main problem I have found with the module list is that there are no references in the Field Guide for these particular 11/730 modules. Maybe because the Guide was for *only* Q-bus and UNIBUS modules and these don't fall into that classification *or* simply the info for these modules was not at hand when the FG was put together. I'm working on that now with a fellow who emailed me in reference to a more up-to-date FG. Any input from the group is welcome of course. Here's the list of modules, in order of slot number, in the 730 as I received it: 1. empty 2. empty 3. empty 4. M8390 (-B?) 5. empty 6. M8391 MCT 7. M8394 8. M8750-CP 9. M8750-CP 10. M8396 11. M8396 12. G7273 13. G7273 14. empty No expansion backplane is installed presently. I think it may have been taken out as there is reference on the module list printed on the CPU cover which shows a 9-slot DD11-DK Unibus Expander Backplane installed in the left side of the crate. I have not dug into either of the BA11 crates I have in the pile yet but would the 9-slot expansion backplanes in these actually be the DD11-DK? Is "DD11-DK" marked anywhere on them? The Ethernet cable is also hanging loose in the crate. Either a single board Ethernet I/F was in slot 14 or the 2-board DEUNA or equivalent was in two slotts of the DD11-DK expansion. For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: 1. "Not used" 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) 3. "Not used" 4. "M8390 DAP" 5. "Not used" 6. "M8391-YA or M8391 MCT" 7. "M8394 WCS" 8. "MS730-CA" 9. "MS730-CA" 10. "G7273/Memory" 11. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" 12. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" 13. "G7273/Unibus Option" 14. "M9202" (and) "G7273/Unibus Option" 1. "M9202" (bridge from slot 14, above) "G727" 2. "G727" | | (all 9 slots have G727's listed) | | 9. "M9302" (and) "G727" Hmmm, if I either have a DD11-DK in a BA11 or something around here or if I could find one amongst list members, then I could hang Unibus options off this machine :) Cool! Anyway, my guess is that I don't have too far to go to restore this box with help from folks here. Tony would benefit too regarding his own 730. And yes, I understand it is a true dog as to performance. But it was mentioned by Allison correctly that at least this is a "real iron" VAX which will fit in a room and power requirements are low enough to be rather tolerable. Recall I have a space problem here. I saw a picture and weight (1k+ lbs) of a 11/780. The wife would shoot me if I had one to keep out of that truckload . Thanks again for the help. Regards, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Jul 9 12:56:02 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Message-ID: <9806099000.AA900032336@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in >> the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET >> manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... > > Don't thoes diagnostics need loopback connectors for the user port (links > things like video signals to the user port pins) and the keyboard > connector? They do indeed. I have a set somewhere. I was given them by another PET owner who had bought them but never used them, being afraid he'd damage the machine by so doing. I don't recall anything in the PET circuit diagrams etc that suggested you could damage the PET with these, but then again... Philip. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Jul 9 12:00:45 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Hey, English blokes...what's an Apricot? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980708125448.3a8f4730@ricochet.net> At 04:09 PM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, so I picked up an Apricot today for one whole dollar. I can't make >out any model number anywhere on the unit. All I got was the main unit. Check out which is "ACT Apricot computers" according to my bookmark file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From erd at infinet.com Thu Jul 9 12:09:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 9, 98 12:22:17 pm Message-ID: <199807091709.NAA15645@user2.infinet.com> > > For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment > says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: > > 1. "Not used" This is where the IDC (Integrated Disk Controller) goes, IIRC. It's the R80/RL02 controller board. > 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) Bingo. > 3. "Not used" Don't recall. > 4. "M8390 DAP" Data Path Module > 5. "Not used" Don't know. > 6. "M8391-YA or M8391 MCT" Memory Controller. > 7. "M8394 WCS" Writable Control Store - here is where the data from the tu58 ends up. > 8. "MS730-CA" > 9. "MS730-CA" 1Mb ECC RAM (each) > 10. "G7273/Memory" > 11. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" > 12. "G7273/Not for Unibus Option" More RAM slots. "Not for Unibus" means it's a MUD slot (Modified Unibus Device). You can't plug a termninator or Unibus cable into them, and only some peripherals work here. At my former company, our COMBOARD I did not work in a MUD slot, but the COMBOARD II did (we used alternate pins to get the correct UNIBUS signals to the board). > 13. "G7273/Unibus Option" May or may not be a MUD slot. I forget. > 14. "M9202" (and) "G7273/Unibus Option" What ever you do, don't install the M9202 terminator in a higher slot than this. You need those G7273 Grant Cards in all the empty slots. Enjoy, -ethan P.S. - I *may* have a set of 11/730 prints in storage. I'm moving soon. I'll know in a bit. If I do, the biggest problem with copying them is access to an 11"x17" copier. I won't sell my only copy - I've got an 11/730 in storage, the same one I've mentioned before. From lfb107 at psu.edu Thu Jul 9 13:14:34 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. Message-ID: <199807091813.OAA35236@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> >and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is >coming up) What happened to 4.0? Les From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Jul 9 15:24:27 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A28A50.D9D81F2B@polygon.com> Message-ID: <000701bdab77$92481f60$eac448c2@snoopy> > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of J. Buck Caldwell > If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just > threw out about 10 dead SDI drives > and have plenty of leftover cables. > It's a pity you aren't in the UK, I have 4 RA81/2 drives and only enough SDI cable to connect 2 to my MicroVAX at a time, and it is a pain dragging the cabinets out to swap them over. Regards Pete From buck_c at polygon.com Thu Jul 9 15:32:05 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. References: <000701bdab77$92481f60$eac448c2@snoopy> Message-ID: <35A528C5.4DD5A821@polygon.com> Peter Joules wrote: > > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of J. Buck Caldwell > > If you need more cables or connection blocks, let me know. I just > > threw out about 10 dead SDI drives > > and have plenty of leftover cables. > > > It's a pity you aren't in the UK, I have 4 RA81/2 drives and only enough SDI > cable to connect 2 to my MicroVAX at a time, and it is a pain dragging the > cabinets out to swap them over. Suppose you aren't willing to pay for shipping across the pond? They're not too incredibly heavy, if you just want a pair or two. Admittedly, I have no clue whatsoever about how much it costs to ship overseas.Hell, for a moderate price, I'll throw in the two RA70s and three KDA50s. I'm kinda trying to get away from SDI... -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Jul 9 12:08:00 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: old AOL disks In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980629200720.00d08220@pc> Message-ID: <199807092109.RAA19341@smtp.interlog.com> > > > On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, John Foust wrote: > > > At 05:15 PM 6/29/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >> > > >> > Didn't AOL get its start by being bundled with PC-GEOS? > > > > > >As far as I know, AOL used to be called AppleLink, which was an Apple > > >online service. > > > > I don't remember if it mutated into AOL, but there once was a > > service called QuantumLink that sold branded network services > > such as AppleLink and AmigaLink and probably a few more "Links". > > This just found in COMPUTE!'s Gazette magazine, March 1986, p.26: > > "Several months ago Commodore agreed to lend exclusive marketing support > to a new online service, QuantumLink, which would be designed solely for > Commodore owners. This created a rather awkward situation when > Commodore's contract renegotiations with CompuServe came up last summer. > The two would, in effect, be competitors." > . > . > . > "Why a separate network for Commodore owners? The reason relates not > only to providing a machine-specific service, but to the continued health > of the whole industry, says Steve Case, Quantum's vice president of > marketing. 'In order to really expand the market for computers long term, > we had to create a dramatically increased utility because it seemed to a > lot of people that the computer penetration level has slowed down. > Somebody had to create a whole bunch of new ideas why people should buy > computers.'" > > - John > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > A good example of corporate cannibalism. The little fish (Q-Link-which became AOL) swallows up the big fish (Compuserve). I've got several of the Q-Link disks. Glad I didn't toss them. They wouldn't work of course when I first tried them. It might be interesting to figure out what the underlying com program was. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:03:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 9, 98 12:22:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/1d74c794/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:14:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807091709.NAA15645@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 9, 98 01:09:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1789 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/300d5042/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 9 13:16:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 In-Reply-To: <9806099000.AA900032336@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 9, 98 05:56:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980709/2aaadab9/attachment.ksh From bsittler at nmt.edu Thu Jul 9 08:34:30 1998 From: bsittler at nmt.edu (Benjamin C. W. Sittler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Kaypro10 manuals needed Message-ID: <35A4C6E6.22F9AA3B@nmt.edu> First, get a book on CP/M (the operating system used by the Kaypro 10.) If you need more detailed technical information or have trouble finding a CP/M reference, send me e-mail. Essentially, the Kaypro10 is a 4MHz Z-80 based CP/M machine with a 400Kb floppy and a hard disk (I think.) It was often used for word processing, usually with MicroPro's WordStar. It has a *slow* modem, a serial port, and a parallel port. I'm working on compiling some information on the Kaypro so it can be emulated; once I do this, emulators may serve as "active documentation" for this fine but somewhat obsolete line of computers. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 9 20:02:06 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Amiga Software. In-Reply-To: <199807091813.OAA35236@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> Message-ID: >>and doesn't intend to (Workbench is still in development and 5.0 is >>coming up) > >What happened to 4.0? > >Les 3.5 was supposed to be the next release, it was announced as canceled at the WOA a couple months ago. 4.0 is supposed to be out in November, it will only run on Intel Hardware. Version 4 is intended to be the only version on Intel Hardware, and is only a release to be used as a developers platform, but from what I've heard do to feedback they recieved after the announcement, they will be selling developer systems through the normal channels to any one that wants them. The reason 4.0 will be on Intel is because that is the platform the necessary development tools are on. The interesting question is, what will the OS look like, and how are they going to get it out on time (popular bets are Linux and BeOS). 5.0 about two years. The rumour is that the hardware will be announced this weekend (a good chance tomorrow) at AmiWest98. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Jul 9 20:51:01 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PET 2001 corrections References: <199807090702.AAA16761@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A57385.94546CBB@goldrush.com> > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > Subject: Re[2]: PET 2001 > >> Or is it 9"? I can't check mine because they are both locked in my > >> father's bedroom at this hour. > > > > 9". All the ones I've seen were 9". 9", 8" the Commodore ads said 9" display... But of course there is only about 8" showing... reminds me of that class-action monitor suit, (Our agency will make $9 for the three monitors it bought a few years back, in 2000, I still have the refund cards.) > I agree with Pete, not that it makes much difference. > >> Supposedly the 2001N and 2001B came with 12" screens, but I've never seen > >> one. > > No. Never. 12 inch screen on 4032 (or possibly 4016) and above only. the 12" models used the new video display chip (and newer motherboard w/speaker) for which only 4.0 BASIC was coded, only the 4000 series. [snip] > First PETS: 2001-4 and 2001-8 (also called 4k PET and 8k PET). Blue trim, > blue-white phosphor, mangled and rebadged cassette (I can't remember whose) > that you open by lifting the lid. they were SANYO decks, no tape eject button, you had to lift the lid, I have two (one in the PET and one external!) > > Then: 2001-4 and 2001-8 get Black trim and C2N cassette deck Black C2N, custom case, no counter. Nice looking deck too, I called that design the 'brick' datasettes, the later cream 'brick' added a counter but they wern't as reliable as the black ones. The best are the (VIC/64 era) low-profile 1530s. Nice units! > > Then: Green screen. > > Next was the ROM upgrade. Usual models were 2001-8N, 2001-16N, 2001-32N, > 2001-8B, 2001-16B and 2001-32B. These had full-sized keyboards and external > C2N decks. In the UK, 2001-8N with tiny keyboard and built in C2N was > common. This was not a new motherboard in an old case - the case was a > different shape (slightly less tall). Larry has suggested that these might > be the 2001-8K, K standing for Calculator (-style keyboard) (sic). I got the 2001-8K from my Spring 1980 Commdoore Product Catalog, listed were: PET 2001-8K Integeral cassette, upgrade (they list as 3.0) ROMs PET 2001 Professional Computer (these were the N series, 8N, 16N, and 32N) graphics full-sized keyboard. CBM 2001 Business Computer (non-graphics keyboard, Upgade ROMs, etc.) listed as 16B and 32B CBM 8000 Business Computer (Available June 1980) 80 columns, 4.0 ROMs listed as 8016 and 8032 [snip] > >> PET 2001NT Teacher's PET. Same as 2001N, just rebadged > > I've never heard of 2001NT. [snip] > > > Mine is just labeled "PET 2001-8K" I think, with no 'N' or 'B' anywhere, > > but mine has a 9" screen and a full-size keyboard with graphics symbols. > > Strange. Full size keyboard with graphics symbols should be 2001-8N Commodore was not a wasteful company (at least in the beginning,) maybe they used an older label?? I would not put it past em. > > cassette-beside-the-keyboard. I've got one here. And the /B and /N series > > were called 3000's not 2001 everywhere except the USA. The 12" versions > > Are you sure? I thought the 2001-8N and 2001-8B got renamed 3008 a bit > later. Never saw a 3000 in my neck of the woods, though I did see pictures (like in the PET Personal Computer Guide, etc.) I think they were more abundant in Canada and the UK. > > > didn't appear in the UK until later. According to my (USA) manual, the > > 2001/B (aka 3000 here) was a 9" screen too. IIRC, the 4000 was the first > > with a 12" screen, [bzzz] Read above, the 8000 was the first 12" model. > > The 12" screen version was > > eventually called the 8000 series here, and had different firmware (and > > up to 96K RAM I think, bank-switched). The difference between a 4000 and an 8000 is an extra k of screen RAM and the video startup code in one of the ROM chips. The 64k expansion board came later and was fully integrated lastly in the 8296 (mainly european release) > Um. The first with the 12 inch screen was the 8032. Different firmware > and re-done video circuitry. Later some of that was put into 4032, > making the "fat 40" Bank switched RAM made an 8096... > > > One of the differences between the business and home versions (apart from > > graphics symbols on the keytops) was whether the machine powered up in > > upper- or lower-case. > > Was it? That's weird! Yep, darned annoying if you like the graphics symbols. The 4000/8000 series also extended the line height by a pixel or two (thanks to the new VDC) which left a gap between lines, can be gotten around by printing CHR$(142) -uppercase, no gaps- and then poking 59468,14 -set back to lower case-. It was a routine in the screen printing code doing it. I think three or four graphics symbols were readily unavailable, (you would have had to print them out with CHR$()s and then build your program lines around them) two of which I really liked to use, that PET (at school) did't get used much by me... (=P) > Take a couple of steps back and get a wider view: > > PET had two internal character codes. [clip alot of tech stuff] > > And that was the second problem. Later PETS swapped lower and upper > case letters. So now ASCII codes 65 and up, which still mapped onto > screen codes 1 and up, gave LOWER case letters, but you pressed SHIFT > for upper case. However the OS and BASIC (one and the same, really) > treated unshifted as letters, and shifted as meaningless graphics > characters, whichever mode you were in. > > Confused? It is, isn't it! One of the Original to Upgrade ROM fixes... You knew the programmer had an old ROM PET when the case in their text was inverted. > > >> ROMs (which I think came out in 1979?) fix both of those things. > > About then. The monitor - hex only - replaced diagnostic routines in > the original ROMs. A listing was actually given in the original PET > manual, but I couldn't get it to work whenever I typed it in... I have it on a Commodore tape and the diagnostic tape too! > > >> I don't have a machine with BASIC 4.0, so I don't know how that starts > > It says "COMMODORE BASIC 4.0" but I can't remember whether between *** or > ###. > *** COMMODORE BASIC *** Original ROM ### COMMODORE BASIC ### Upgrade ROM *** COMMODORE BASIC 4.0 *** 4.0 ROMs > >> Upgrade ROM machines also have a Microsoft easter egg in them > >> whcih is missing from the original ROMs.) > > Indeed. Type WAIT 6502,100 and you get a screen full of MICROSOFT! > > There was a very-short-lived BASIC-2, and BASIC-3 (more-or-less the upgrade > > ROM set) was around for a while before 4. 4 has extra commands for the > > disk, instead of having to use the generic IEEE channel commands, but > > otherwise it's almost the same as 3. Short lived?? - it seemed to be around for a few years to me... > I have heard all sorts of numbering schemes for BASIC versions. The > only thing they agree on is 4. AFAIK, the BASIC in 3008 and friends was > identical to the upgrade ROMs that went in original PETs. I go by Original, Upgrade, small screen 4.0, and large screen 4.0, and 80 column 4.0. There were enough differences in the small and large screen 4.0 ROMs to keep some 4.0 games from working on large screen PETs. > > > Only the original ROMs start up with ***; all of the later ones used ###. > > That clears up my mystery above. Thank you. [bzzzz] *** were used in 4.0 too, but at least they did add 4.0 to the message. > > >> It might also be important to mention that the PET has a timer that > >> operates in real time. And it has the same character set(s) as the VIC-20 except for the british pound symbol which replaced the PET's back-slash (\) > >> and C64 the 64 set was 'pudgyier' to reduce video artifacting on TVs but you can't switch between the upper/lower-case text character > >> set and the upper-case/graphics set without issuing a POKE command. (Was > >> it 49512,12 and 49512,14? My memory is rusty.) > > Hope this clears up some misconceptions. and that is why I made the PET FAQ! ;) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Jul 9 23:13:25 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules In-Reply-To: <199807090806.BAA01629@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199807100410.XAA31114@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: dave dameron To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Intel bubble memory modules > Hi all, > I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory > modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy > them? > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave Yes, let me know how much the bubble memory is. Thank you. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 01:35:12 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Commodore 64, was Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807100635.XAA08478@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 06:50 AM 7/9/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Interesting, I would guess that's for video, not ethernet though. Was it >the thick one with the round old-style led or the 'c' thin model? >The reason why I ask is that I wonder what they could have fit inside... > >>They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC >>jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. >Their >>price was $10 USD. >>-Dave >> From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 01:35:15 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: Intel bubble memory modules Message-ID: <199807100635.XAA08499@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 03:32 AM 7/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I went to a surplus store today and they had, I think, 2 Intel bubble memory >> modules, about 4 x 4 cm x 1cm thick. Would anyone like me to look at or buy >> them? > >FWIW, one day I needed a new bubble. I tracked down the company (MemTech >at http://www.memtech.com/) that bought Intel Magnetics, and asked them >the price for a new 128K bubble. I think it was $300+. I'll take the >bubbles if they're under $5 each. > I went back, and could find only one! It was loose in a box of some small AC power socket modules, could not find anything that it came out of. The price was $4 +tax. It is an Intel Magnetics 7110-1 with a date code (I guess) of 8204. There is a string of 80 Hex characters printed on it, mostly "F", a 320 bit error map of some kind? I will let you know if I find any more. I plan to go back to look more anyway, there also appeared to be a cabinet with a 8 inch floppy drive in it (horizontal). I couldn't really get at it to examine it closely. (There was a bunch of bad UPS's around and on top of it). -Dave From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 10 02:15:23 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: New Acquisitions, H8 Question References: <199807100410.XAA31114@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <35A5BF8B.EFBFD72B@rain.org> One of my favorite activities is checking out swapmeets, swapfests, etc. Because a number of people know about my addiction and are willing to help out, I just picked up the following for about $125: 2 - Model 100's w/ cassette recorder, cases, manuals, etc. 1 - HP 85 w/ 128K Ram Pack and Plotter Rom (one more left I didn't take) 1 - Mac Portable (works but dead HD) 1 - Tandy 1400 portable 1 - Kaypro ? w/case 1 - Heathkit H?? (like the Z89) 1 - Heathkit Dual Floppy 1 - Heathkit H-8 w/ H17 dual Floppy Drive When I took a look at the H8, it turned out to have a D-G Electronic Development CPU and memory card. I haven't taken the time yet to check out the other cards to see if they are Heathkit or other 2nd source cards. Besides the floppy controller, there are two cards marked H8-4 and H8-5. The H8-4 is a multi I/O card, and I have no idea what the H8-5 is yet except that it has what appear to be audio cables coming from the card. I am not familiar with D-G Electronic Development and am looking for more information about them. Unfortunately, no documentation came with the units BUT I will be trying to find out where they came from and see if the people who donated them have anything else that might go with the computers. While I won't be doing much with them at this time, I would appreciate any information on those D-G cards. Thanks! From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Jul 10 06:44:44 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: New Acquisitions, H8 Question Message-ID: <00bd01bdabf8$41e1d440$a027a2ce@cgregory> >1 - Heathkit H?? (like the Z89) No doubt an H88. Generally there will be a Heathkit sticker on the back with the model number. The Heathkit 88 and Zenith 89 are virtually the same machine with differing name plates. >there are two cards marked H8-4 >and H8-5. The H8-4 is a multi I/O card, and I have no idea what the H8-5 >is yet except that it has what appear to be audio cables coming from the >card. The H8-5 is a serial I/O and cassette interface card. I have the complete documentation including the assembly instructions. From the Introduction: "Your Heathkit Model H8-5 Serial I/O and Cassette Interface Card provides you with two input/output ports to the Heath H8 Computer. One port provides a cassette tape interface while the other port provides a serial I/O port.... The Cassette tape interface, along with the H8 front panel monitor, provides you with a fully automated Load and Dunp facility. This greatly increases the system's usefulness by enabling you to store programs and data for later use. The interface will automatically compensate for variations in tape speed and will accept a wide range of input levels. Both high and low level outputs are provided to match any tape unit you wish to use.... The serial I/O port normally operates with the system console. It provides serial communications at speeds from 110 to 9600 Baud at either 20 mA or RS-232 compatible levels...." >1 - Heathkit Dual Floppy >1 - Heathkit H-8 w/ H17 dual Floppy Drive I you ever wish to part with either, let me know. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 09:42:33 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 info needed. In-Reply-To: <35A528C5.4DD5A821@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 9, 98 03:32:05 pm Message-ID: <199807101442.KAA01045@user2.infinet.com> > > you aren't willing to pay for shipping across the pond? They're not too > incredibly heavy, if you just want a pair or two. Admittedly, I have no > clue whatsoever about how much it costs to ship overseas. I've done it. $5 to $15 per pound ($11 to $33 per kilo) is the ordinary range, depending on sea/air and continent. Contrast this with UPS rates of *approximately* $1 to $2 per pound for ground service. > Hell, for a moderate price, I'll throw in the two RA70s and three KDA50s. > I'm kinda trying to get away from SDI... If you don't get any international takers, I'm interested in cheap SDI hardware. I'd love to get away from it, but I have only 1 SCSI board for all my VAXen/PDP-11's (a CS-21 with *no* docs), but several SDI interfaces (UDA-50 and KDB50 - I have a VAX 8300). My current main disk is a third- party SDI/ESDI box with two 1.2G 5.25" ESDI drives inside. My current backup/reserve disk is an RA-81. As you can imagine, I hate powering that one on. I would love a KDA-50 and RA70 - it would go so nicely in my BA123. I'm in Ohio; I could probably arrange for a pickup. I have a housemate who is originally from St. Louis. We go back there several times per year. -ethan P.S. while I'm here, I'll ask is anyone has any docs on a CS-21 Qbus SCSI interface. It has a logo which I think is Systems Industries (a stylized double-S). I could even use a jumper list. I'm about to get out the Qbus manual and the voltmeter to match up jumpers with address bits. From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 09:52:02 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101453.KAA19648@charity.harvard.net> I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all probably heard this before but does anyone know where I should start. I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but fear I will not. Help! Thanks, Tony Dellett anthony.dellett@staples.com From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 09:49:30 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 9, 98 07:14:49 pm Message-ID: <199807101449.KAA01197@user2.infinet.com> > AFAIK all DEC unibus peripheral controllers work here. There *might* be an ancient SPC that doesn't, but yes, all DEC cards I've ever seen work in a MUD slot. > Here's what's going on. > > On an original Unibus slot, connectors A,B were either Unibus In/Out... > > C-F were not changed AFAIK on any slots. AFAIK, that is all correct. > On a MUD slot, there were memory signals on connectors A,B. Originally > these were just the Unibus address and data lines, wired almost the same > as a Unibus In or Out connector. However some grounded pins on the Unibus > connector were assigned to extra power lines (battery backed, etc) on the > MUD slot, so plugging a terminator or Unibus cable into an MUD slot > shorts out the PSU. Bad idea. Right. Some bozo vendor shipped me a 11/725 (11/730 CPU, different case) with no grant cards and the terminator in a MUD slot. Stupid me turned on the power without checking the cards. Stupid vendor did replace the PSU. > For this reason no peripheral card should ever do anything but take power > from A and B unless you know exactly what you are doing. True, but that third-party board I used to make was designed by Real Engineers (tm). They just *knew* that the Unibus signals were on A and B and didn't worry about those C and D fingers. You should see the mod to make that board work in a MUD slot - bunches of wires. > > What ever you do, don't install the M9202 terminator in a higher slot than > > THe M9202 is a bus jumper, isn't it? The terminator is the M9302. Doh! You are correct. And the M9312 should be the boot strap/terminator for the 11/34 etc, IIRC. -ethan From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:59:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <19980710145958.19523.qmail@hotmail.com> From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 10:00:24 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: References: <199807091624.QAA02530@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> At 19:03 09-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: --snip-- >> 14. empty > >Unibus output (you need a terminator and grant card here.) > >> >> No expansion backplane is installed presently. I think it may have been >> taken out as there is reference on the module list printed on the CPU cover >> which shows a 9-slot DD11-DK Unibus Expander Backplane installed in the >> left side of the crate. > >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something different in a VAX 11/730. Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my 730. The 780 is also shown on the right. It's cabinet dimensions are about the same as the 40" mass storage unit cabinets and the 11/34A cabinet I have. Interesting that the introduction dates show the 730 is fairly recent vs. the 780. 1982 vs. 1977. > >> >> I have not dug into either of the BA11 crates I have in the pile yet but >> would the 9-slot expansion backplanes in these actually be the DD11-DK? Is >> "DD11-DK" marked anywhere on them? > > >Could be. There's a label on the side of the backplane that says 'DD11-DK', >you hope ;-). Some 9-slot backplanes were custom wired for particular >options, like RH11s or RK611s. DD11-DKs are just plain Unibus (SPC) >backplanes Found a DD11-DK in an empty 10.5" BA11 crate. I think I recall seeing a DD11 printset in the pile of docs () so I'll check if it is "standard" as in "not modified". The modification sticker has an "E", I think, marked in a box. > > >> For the sake of comparison with what the factory-original module compliment >> says, I will note in quotes ("") what's on the CPU cover label: >> >> 1. "Not used" >> 2. "M8389 FPA (Option)" (must be a floating pt. adaptor) > >Yep, floating point board. > >> 1. "M9202" (bridge from slot 14, above) "G727" > >M9202 = Unibus jumper? Yep. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 10:23:03 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 11:00:24 am Message-ID: <199807101523.LAA01798@user2.infinet.com> > >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with > >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards > >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. Mine too. I think it is officially called a 11/730Z > 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something > different in a VAX 11/730. > > Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: > > > http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html > > It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my > 730. I wish I could get Japanese support working for Netscape 4.03 under X on my Solaris box. :-( I saw the picture. I have never seen that model of 11/730 up close. It looks kind of like a miniature 11/750. I would suppose that there is a BA-11 inside with a 11/730 backplane and some DD-11DK's, no? If you forego the IDC for Unibus disks, yours looks like a nicer design. Perhaps that's what they did for later units. The cabling on the older 11/730's is a nightmare to install (a co-worker did the one I have), but once in place, it's OK. I'm guessing that the in-cabinet cabling for your 11/730 is like the 11/24 or 8200 - a pile of cables snaking through some strain relief bars, ending in a wall of I/O plates. Can you put any additional stuff in that cabinet, or is it all cable run? -ethan From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Jul 10 12:32:11 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VM/SP Message-ID: <9806109001.AA900117296@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > The question is, what was VM/SP? I know it was IBMs, and it ran on large > mainframes. Where can I find information about it? The only info I can find is in a couple of glossy brochures from IBM. One is about the 9370, the other about the 3090 series. Respectively, IBM Virtual Machine/System Product (VM/SP) This is a multi-user, multi-processing operating system for interactive processing. It provides productivity tools for commercial and engineering/scientific environments, decision support and program development. With its connectivity enhancements, this system is particularly suited for remote sites that have little or no programming staff. and Simple end-user interaction with VM The VM/XA Systems Facility and the VM/SP High Performance Option both provide a virtual machine environment. Together with the Conversational Monitor System (CMS), they permit each end-user to access the IBM 3090 system independently, with the perception that he or she is the sole user. Communicating with the IBM 3090 via VM/CMS, Vector Vacility users can develop, test and execute vectorised applications online, using a comprehensive range of IBM Assembler and FORTRAN compilers, libraries and productivity tools. VM also provides guest System Control Program (SCP) support, not only for other IBM SCPs but also for IX/370, IBM's implementation of UNIX. Sorry I can't be of further help. Philip. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 10 11:50:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101650.AA21772@world.std.com> $>Set mode/device=tongue/position=incheek < I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all < probably heard this before but does anyone know where I should start. < I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but Desperate? I know people desperate for heart transplants or hardware to keep their old maching going because it runs their business but, really! ;-) Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for homes and also noteworthy! Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 12:27:01 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807101727.NAA05242@charity.harvard.net> Oh, I'd really love to get my hands on some old Cromemco and Northstar equipment too but the IMSAI is like a labor of love :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 12:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Looking for... > > > > $>Set mode/device=tongue/position=incheek > > < I'm desperately searching for an IMSAI 8080. I know you have all > < probably heard this before but does anyone know where I > should start. > < I'm going to the MIT Swapfest this month and hoping to get lucky but > > Desperate? I know people desperate for heart transplants or hardware > to keep their old maching going because it runs their business but, > really! ;-) > > Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for > homes and > also noteworthy! > > > Allison > From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Jul 10 12:20:51 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a list, but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what I have in case someone needs something. Here it goes... 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two 84-pin PLCC chips with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. Recognizable chips include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone identify this? 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, 14411 chips and a proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this one. The MOS-labeled ones have 1976-dated ceramic chips. 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue and regulator chips. 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), Embedded Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor Program Listing). -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, Smay & Triska 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I know saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club listings, a personal microwave communications system, various Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test Program, RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, F, and J). My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my goodies. That'll take a while, though. Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Jul 10 12:38:11 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! In-Reply-To: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: Greetings Richard, Any chance of obtaining one of the remaining Kim-1's or the Aim documentation? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Jul 10 13:38:51 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <01IZ8FVVJBEABMA5D9@cc.usu.edu> > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? Offhand, it sounds like a DECmate, probably a III. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Jul 10 12:50:31 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <199807101753.NAA07361@charity.harvard.net> What are the chances of getting one of the sets of 11/34 docs? I got one of these and a set of docs would just rock! Thanks Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. [mailto:rcini@email.msn.com] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 1:21 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! > > > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to > rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate > to post a list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone > to know what I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC > 54-16489, Has two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, > DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C > (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, > 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need > data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 > slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook > (83), Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be > full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, > Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer > Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 > computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, > Monitor Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, > and Camp, Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before > the guy I know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get > this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is > that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. > Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, > Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, > General Test Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, > ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, > RK05 (regular, F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line > database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 13:11:56 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101523.LAA01798@user2.infinet.com> References: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807101814.SAA04919@cyber2.servtech.com> At 11:23 10-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >> >What does your 11/730 cabinet look like, then? Mine is a 10.5" box with >> >the backplane standing vertically in the middle. PSU on the right, cards >> >go in from the left. There's no room in mine for an extra backplane. > >Mine too. I think it is officially called a 11/730Z The model designation of mine is 11/750-CA. Do either of these model numbers mean anything to anybody out there? > >> 10.5"box? b/p standing vertical? PSU on right? Whoa, that must be something >> different in a VAX 11/730. >> >> Look at this URL for a picture of my 730: >> >> >> http://www.dec-j.co.jp/ic/history/40th/vax.html >> >> It's a Japaneese page, but there's some English text *and* a photo of my >> 730. > >I wish I could get Japanese support working for Netscape 4.03 under X on Me too, but I don't know Japanese! >my Solaris box. :-( I saw the picture. I have never seen that model >of 11/730 up close. It looks kind of like a miniature 11/750. I would That is a good way to describe it. It's the same height as the 750 setting next to it, only narrow like the cabinets that RL's, TU80s, etc. can reside in. >suppose that there is a BA-11 inside with a 11/730 backplane and some >DD-11DK's, no? If you forego the IDC for Unibus disks, yours looks like Yes. Only one DD11-DK is called out (see earlier mention of this fact in the first msg of this thread.) >a nicer design. Perhaps that's what they did for later units. The A couple of dates inside the unit place mine around middle of 1984. BTW I'm still looking for a front and back door for this machine. Now that anybody can see a picture in that Japanese DEC site, that's the box I'm refering to. >cabling on the older 11/730's is a nightmare to install (a co-worker >did the one I have), but once in place, it's OK. I'm guessing that the >in-cabinet cabling for your 11/730 is like the 11/24 or 8200 - a pile >of cables snaking through some strain relief bars, ending in a wall of Yes, I even have a 11/24 setting nearby to compare it with too. Too bad I cannot keep either the 750 or /24. No room, dang it! BTW: the /24's cabinet is the same height and width as the 750. >I/O plates. Can you put any additional stuff in that cabinet, or is >it all cable run? I think I can install another unit like an RL or tape drive. Have to check depth first. That's the major part of my idea to try to make a working system in the smallest footprint. I know the TS03 tape unit will fit since it's not too deep. The various controller modules for the TS11 drive control would fit into the DD11-DK backplane. Hmmm, if I can find a SCSI module or something I wonder if a more modern SCSI hard drive and tape unit (as in the types used in the PC world) could be installed??? How about a TK50 tape and an RD-something HDD? Anything w/larger capacity than TK50 in that physical size? (I must find a good primer for the more modern and smaller DEC HDD and tape units. Any pointers?) Anyway, that arrangement would be small enough to mount into a 5.25" high 19" rack drawer with a PSU and fit inside the cabinet nicely underneath the 730's BA11 crate. This would make a single cabinet machine with the smallest footprint possible! Yeah! I'm hep! Anybody have any ideas? > >-ethan > I recall seeing mentioned somewhere a URL from Finland that has info and archives for MicroVAXen. Anybody know of that and could pass the URL on to me (and the list)? Thanks for the help! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Fri Jul 10 13:37:51 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? Message-ID: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> In looking at the RK07 and RL01/02 drives that I have from the Great Haul, the connectors and cables look rather similar. In the 11/34A I am keeping, there is a five-board set which is the RK611 controller. The previous owner had RK07's hung off this controller. I want to use at least one RL02 in the system as most of the disk packs with the important s/w are RL01/02. Anybody know if the RLs will work off the RK611 controller? (This is one of those dumb newbie questions!) If it won't work, anybody have a spare RL11 controller module (M7762) they'll let go? There's a heap of RL's (7) in the stuff I got but the only machine in the whole pile that has an RL11 is the 11/24 which is not going to be kept by me. What would the cable run limits be on either the RL11 or RK611 systems? As someone had told me a bit earlier about SDI systems, only ODD number of cables must be used. Any such limitation here? Thanks for your input! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Jul 10 14:46:02 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? In-Reply-To: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 02:37:51 pm Message-ID: <199807101946.PAA14893@shell.monmouth.com> > > In looking at the RK07 and RL01/02 drives that I have from the Great Haul, > the connectors and cables look rather similar. > Yup, the connectors are the same, but the number of pins used and signals are totally different. The RL's need the RL11 controller and the RK's the RK611. They don't mix. Bill From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:47:59 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen Message-ID: <19980710194759.16418.qmail@hotmail.com> Today, I saw a peculiar-looking all-plastic computer that was labelled "Heath Computer Systems". Is this the Heathkit kit XT? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:56:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Ouch! And if my machine is the same, this would disprove my theory about > > the plugs, unless the 8-pin connector that I think might be for the video > > actually just mated with a 5-pin connector. > > A 5 pin DIN plug will mate with a 7 or 8 pin socket (!). Just what you > need to cause problems IMHO. > > Which way round do you think the connectors are? I think it's the 5-pin connector for the power, and the 8-pin connector for the video. Which sounds safe. :) I'll try to trace the pins as you suggested in another post, Tony, and get back later. But I don't have an oscilloscope or logic analyser to help figure out the video signal. Which makes me regret not picking up those old oscilloscopes that I saw at a garage sale last year, only a couple of miles from here. :/ > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Fri Jul 10 14:59:46 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen In-Reply-To: <19980710194759.16418.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Today, I saw a peculiar-looking all-plastic computer that was labelled > "Heath Computer Systems". Is this the Heathkit kit XT? Could you elaborate on "peculiar" (and what is a Heathkit kit XT?). I have a peculiar-looking plastic computer from Heathkit called the ET-3400, but it couldn't possibly be confused with an XT. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:44:27 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > I don't have any kind of parts catalogue, but someone here might. Some > > Yep, in my brain... How wonderful it must be, to have a brain. ;) > > P8253-5 (24-pin); Intel P8259A (28-pin); Intel D8288 (20-pin); two times > > 8253 is a counter/timer, probably used for a heartbeat or a real time clock > 8288 = 8086/8088 bus controller IC. I'm suprised there's not an 8284 > clock chip near it as well. Nope, no 8284 that I could locate, but chip size would affect my ability to easily spot it. I more careful inspection of the motherboard has revealed a few smaller chips that don't have "74" on thier labels. :) There's a 16-pin chip with "CD4050AE/RCA 227" stamped on it. There are also six chips that sit on their sides, with 10 pins, marked "MSP10C01-472G/DALE", and a few other minor parts. > > HN482732AG-30 (EPROM, 24-pin, in 28-pin socket); D3-6402-9 (40-pin); > > 2732 = 4K*8 EPROM. Sounds like 4K words of BIOS > 6402 _may_ be the standard 6402 UART chip. That's got 40 pins. Cool! The 6402 is located closer to the parallel port than the serial port, though. > > AM8255APC/P8255A (40-pin); SCN2661C/C1N28E/CP28028 (28-pin). The rest is > > 8255 = 24 line parallel I/O chip. It lives directly between the parallel port and the 6402, so parallel I/O it must indeed be. > A dogsbody sort of I/O chip. The IBM PC > uses one for the DIP switches, keyboard, sound control, etc... There's a set of four switches right next to the 8255, and the keyboard connector isn't too far away. > 2661 is a fancy-ish serial chip. I'll have to grab the data book to find > out more ... It lives beside the serial port. > > The board with the funny cable connectors is labeled "LOCAL COMM D.L. BD" > > and "9245 - R0M0". The only interesting IC is a 40-pin chip labeled "WANG > > 2001/377-0508/IMP 03 8402BCA". The rest is TTL. > > Some sort of ASIC for that strange Wang interface? It appears to be true. > > are five 28-pin chips from Toshiba labeled "TC5565PC-15". There is also a > > RAM, I think. Possibly video RAM. Cool! So the vide must indeed be on the emulator board. Which makes me wonder what the Wang is able to do without one of those boards. The IBM Mono Emulator board looks to have been manufactured about a year and a half later than the motherboard. I never did get around to hooking something up to the machine's serial port last week. Other things came up and sucked away the time. > > 40-pin chip labeled "HD46505SP/HD6845SP". The rest is TTL. > > 6845 CRT controller (basically the timing chain for the video section). > > Is there another 24 pin chip (EPROM or ROM) on this board as a character > generator? I would have expected one. Unless one of the 5565s is used for > that and loaded from disk or something. No 24 pin chips at all. So does the Wang have redefinable characters? Maybe I can port some VIC-20 games to it. :) > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jul 10 05:02:44 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807031806.OAA23051@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > Yes a reality, and a nic name I got from some friends. Then congrats on the Wang repair! Loss of eyesight is probably my greatest fear. > I used it mostly to write messages on from calls ect, I would leave it on > all day, and get some help later on some one would read it back to me so I > could braille it out. What did you do when there was a power failure? :) > The drive was ten MB and had Wang dos on it and the word prosser was also > on it. > The monotor was a Wang monotor, I don't know if they are still available. Unlikely. Which is one reason I'm so peeved at the Salvation Army store for tossing all of those old monitors and terminals. > This Wang I had was baught at a flee market, a fellow had 20 or 30 of them > he was selling complete for $25 about ten years ago. Sounds like a good deal! > A friend saw it and snagged one for me he knew I was interested in > computers, and thought it would make a interesting birthday present for me. > I sold it eventually because I couldn't het a sinthasiser that would work > in the card slots, they worent ISA or any thing like that, not sure what > they wore. Some proprietary Wang bus, I presume. It's got 86 pins, at 0.125" spacing. > Pete > Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From erd at infinet.com Fri Jul 10 15:57:52 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: <199807101650.AA21772@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 10, 98 12:50:17 pm Message-ID: <199807102057.QAA08126@user2.infinet.com> > Done forget there are loads of other S100 hardware looing for homes and > also noteworthy! > > Allison I gave away a couple of 68K S100 boxes to a friend a couple of years ago. Since then, I've gotten that Z80 Starter Kit with the S100 connectors. What sorts of boards might I be able to find for which there is Z80 code? Could I find/build a floppy controller and get some sort of CP/M BIOS ROM and turn it into a CP/M machine? I guess I'd need a serial port for a console, at least a 5.25" controller, and BIOS source (with a cross assembler). Anything else? Is 32K reasonable for CP/M, or should I go for 48K? The only copy I happen to have, BTW, is an original CP/M distribution disk for the Commodore 128. Will that be adequate, or should I dig for something more generic? Thanks, -ethan From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Jul 10 16:40:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <199807102140.AA00955@world.std.com> Ethan, The z80 believe it or not is still in production and has to be one of the most common 8 bitters along with the 6502. It also has one of the bigger resources for tools, code, and knowledge around. < I gave away a couple of 68K S100 boxes to a friend a couple of years ago. < Since then, I've gotten that Z80 Starter Kit with the S100 connectors. Wh < sorts of boards might I be able to find for which there is Z80 code? Coul Unlike PCs the z80 world doesn't really revolve so closely around boards or one vendors word of how the OS is implemented. So... it sorta makes the question open ended. < I find/build a floppy controller and get some sort of CP/M BIOS ROM and < turn it into a CP/M machine? I guess I'd need a serial port for a console Getting a bios rom would be near impossible, as most cpm systems did not do rom bios like PCs do! The bios was loaded at boot time. the loader was a minimal chunk of code (as small or smller than 128 bytes) that loaded the bios which then loaded the rest of the OS. That made the bios very changable as the users discression. Writing your own bios and putting it an eprom(or EEprom) is very doable. The book you need (or the chapter in) is the CP/M alteration guide. that can be found at the site listed. Finding more boards (assuming S100) is also not that hard. there are people here that can help right here on classiccmp. One development platform is to get MYZ80(it's on the web at the SIMTEL site) a z80 and CP/M emulator that runs on 386 or higher dos(or win 3.x, maybe w95) platforms. With that on your PC you can surf the web for tools and apps needed to run languages, assemblers, debuggers and what have you to develop code. < at least a 5.25" controller, and BIOS source (with a cross assembler). Any disk size/format you may want is doable from old single density 8" to IDE or SCSI. You might find hardware for any or all, but 5.25/8" was common. FYI: if your writing the code, most 8" double density controllers with 765 or the more commonly used in that time frame WD179x can also do 3.5" formats. < Anything else? Is 32K reasonable for CP/M, or should I go for 48K? The For CP/M 32 is the minimum to do useful work even though you can run the assembler and debuggers in 20k. A good system is 48 or better 56k with some setup to switch out the eprom to get access to all 64k. < only copy I happen to have, BTW, is an original CP/M distribution disk < for the Commodore 128. Will that be adequate, or should I dig for somethi < more generic? The C128 is furthest from generic IMHO, but if you have a c128 it's a good place to start as a development platform. FYI with notable exceptions CPM (primary componenets are CCP, BDOS and BIOS) is generic for all 8080/8085 and z80 system and only the bios code is different as that's where all the IO work is done for terminals and disks. There is a CP/M website on the net where you can get binaries or even sources as well as manuals. I'd look here if I were you: Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm Applications, look at the FTP site at OAKLAND.EDU and SIMTEL, I'd guess there are 20-30,000 programs out there and most with sources. Good luck, Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 17:09:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Some things seen Message-ID: <19980710220929.11893.qmail@hotmail.com> It just looked odd. It was like a regular PC case but smaller. It was two shallow plastic tubs. At front, all there was was two 1/2 height 5.25" drives. The whole thing was about as tall as 1 full height. In the back, it had the standard MB connectors (RS-232, Parallel), composite RF, and a 9-pin video (I don't recall what type). It had one horizontal expansion slot with the little cover missing. I peeked inside but couldn't see the ISA connector. >Could you elaborate on "peculiar" (and what is a Heathkit kit XT?). I >have a peculiar-looking plastic computer from Heathkit called the ET-3400, >but it couldn't possibly be confused with an XT. > >-- Doug > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Fri Jul 10 17:44:29 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules Message-ID: <199807102244.AAA06392@IAEhv.nl> On 1998-07-10 Chris said: cl>I recall seeing mentioned somewhere a URL from Finland that has cl>info and archives for MicroVAXen. Anybody know of that and could cl>pass the URL on to me (and the list)? Please take a look ar http://vaxarchive.ml.org, a site I am building to be filled with VAX (and maybe PDP) info. Some data and a lot of links are already there. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Jul 10 20:34:03 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Finds Message-ID: <020f01bdac6b$fd8d0e80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi, Great day today, I found: Zenith ZT1, aparently it is a phone terminal and has the manual to connect to compuserve. Is it also useable as a computer? I have the manual but it's burried at the moment. HP 97 brand new in the box and it seems to be working fine. I'm charging the battery right now to check it. Standard pack and business decision pack plus a bag of programming sheets Text editing, math, Visicalc Plus and owners manuals for the HP85 HP thermal printer with HPIL interface (HP 82162A) what is that for? is it tfor the HP 75? HP82901M Dual 5.25" flexible disk drive with HPIB interface. I believe it is for the HP85 Box of five blank tapes for the HP 85 HP110 laptop computer (8086 or so) with MS-DOS 2.0 in ROM With manual and lotus 123 complete. 2 HP9114 3.5" disk drives for the HP 110 with manual charger and HPIL cables HP 2225A Think jet with HPIL interface for the HP 110 On the sad side I had to pass on an Original MAC M0001, a MAC SE, SE/30 the HP 85 (already have 2) a box of thermal paper for the HP85, a commodore calculator and loads of softwares for the HP 85 and 150 series and a bunch of unrecognized boxes (probably compatibles) I'm really thinking about going back tomorrow If I can get the OK from above:) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Jul 10 20:57:54 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: C64 w/ BNCs References: <199807100702.AAA26131@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35A6C6A1.8946D109@goldrush.com> > From: dave dameron > Subject: Intel bubble memory modules > [snip!] > > They also had a Commodore 64, beige with dark keys, modified with 2 BNC > jacks on the back. I could find no documentation that went with it. Their > price was $10 USD. > -Dave My first thought for the 2 BNCs would be a Stereo SID (sound chip) modification. That is a popular hardware mod that adds a second SID sythesizer chip to the 64 so you can have 2 channel, 6 voice stereo. There are a few music writer programs and players and a game or two that support it. Usually the mod has RCA type jacks though... Pretty cool if you like the 64 sound output (which is really good for an 8-bitter). -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:04:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 10, 98 06:44:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3371 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/8dba93fa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:10:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Jul 10, 98 06:56:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/20b45333/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:57:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101449.KAA01197@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 10, 98 10:49:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/e4804988/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 20:02:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Could RK611 control RL01/02 disks?? In-Reply-To: <199807101840.SAA05785@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 02:37:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/b159fbb6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 10 20:07:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/730 modules In-Reply-To: <199807101502.PAA28662@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 10, 98 11:00:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 984 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/f9a681a5/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 10 21:39:35 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980710213935.006a33a0@pop3.concentric.net> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much time and money on ebay. The following is ashort list as the number of books, manuals, hats, and other computer related items is too large to list it all here. 1) Mac Color Classic not 10 years yet but a must have for my collection of Mac's (I'm going for 103 different models '84 to '94) 2) New unopened Sun Interactive UNIX software from Half price books 24.95 3) TRS80 4/4P manual set 4) Atari Portfolio complete with case, 128k module, two sofeware packages, serial cable and unit, manuals, and product sheets. It works great. 5) Newton fax modem 6) Sharp PC-7000 lunchbox style computer 7) Victor VPC11 model 2601-1 8) Eagle PC model PC-2 9) Cordata model PC-400-25 10) Covalent 2086 CPU Shop System a full tower unit not tested yet 11) Some Atari 400/800 cassette software all new in boxes from .60 to 1.60 each 12) Several boxes of new software for the Apple IIgs 13) Atari SC1224 monitor .80 14) Atari FD drives models SF354 (single) and SF314 (double) 15) Apple IIc power supply not tested 16) Several Atari power supplies 17) Ashton-tate Step IV Ward software and manual 18) HP 9133H 19) HP 9122 model D 20) Perkin-Elmer 7700 Professional computer and KB no monitor 21) HP 9130A 22) HP 2671G printer 23) Lexas Turbo 2400 mini modem 24) 8-Mac Plus KB's will be trading some of these 25) 6-Mac 128k KB'S 26) 10-2600 cartridges 27) TI Terminal Emulator II module That's all for now will list some of the other items later. Keep computing John From DGoodwin at smcvt.edu Fri Jul 10 22:28:29 1998 From: DGoodwin at smcvt.edu (Dave Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! Message-ID: <455BFB014181D1119BCB00805F578DF00224EB34@shadow.smcvt.edu> Any chance of getting a KIM? Dave > ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr.[SMTP:rcini@email.msn.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: July 10, 1998 1:20 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Oh, boy. What a haul! > > Hello, all: > > I made another trip to Temple University yesterday to rummage through > their storehouse of old computers and documentation. I hate to post a > list, > but I don't have a working web site yet, and I want everyone to know what > I > have in case someone needs something. > > Here it goes... > > 1. Mac Portable (no HD, bad batteries) > 2. Many Unibus and Q-Bus boards > 3. Odd DEC single-board computer. 10" x 7" labeled DEC 54-16489, Has > two > 84-pin PLCC chips > with the LSI LIA 0433 and 0434 marks. Has a DB25, DB15, and DB9. > Recognizable chips > include 8051, FD1796, CDP 6402 (RCA), and D7201C (NEC) Can anyone > identify this? > 4. Three Motorola 68K educational computers. Has 32k RAM, 68K, 6850, > 14411 chips and a > proto area. Also has two EPROMs. Any guess? > 5. Three KIM-1s!! (There are one or two more left, too). Two are > MOS-labeled, one is *brand new* from > Conversational Voice Terminal Corp. of Chicago. Need data on this > one. The MOS-labeled ones > have 1976-dated ceramic chips. > 6. A S-100 backplane from Forethought Products. Has 8 slots, some glue > and regulator chips. > 7. Lots of documentation. A sampling... > -- Intel: MCS80/85 User Guide (1983), Memory Handbook (83), > Embedded > Controller Book (88), Component Data Book (80; looks to be full-line), OEM > Boards (87), 8080/85 Assembly Language Programming Manual, Applications > Note --implementing a floppy system (1981). > -- DEC: Logic handbook (77), Microcomputer Microprocessors (78) > -- Motorola: MC68020 User Man., MEK6800 Guide, 6809 Assembly > Language, 6800 Pgmr. Ref. Manual. > -- Full documentation set for the Rockwell AIM-65 computer (user > guide, BASIC language, Programmers Manual, Hardware Manual, Monitor > Program > Listing). > -- Textbooks on microprocessors by Tocci & Laskowski, and Camp, > Smay > & Triska > 8. Old magazines. The guy who ran the CS department before the guy I > know > saved everything. Byte's going back to 1978 (too many to get this trip), > Datamation, others that I never heard of. But, the jewel is that I came > *this* close to getting the Altair issue of Popular Electronics. > Unfortulately, this guy only had as far back as 1/76. Articles include: > Cosmal Elf construction articles, SOL construction, build a Scientific > Calculator, music with the 8080, TV Typewriter, SpeechLab, Computer Club > listings, a personal microwave communications system, various > Classic-relevant product reviews and buyer's guides. > 9. DEC paper tapes: PDP-11 power fail, LPS11 tests, General Test > Program, > RK05 dynamic test, RK11 utilities, exerciser, static tests. > 10. Complete print sets for the following: PDP 11/34A (two copies, > complete), FP11, H960 cabinet, KSI-11, DLV-11, DL-11, H9720, ET-LSI-11, > LSI-11 power supply, MS11, PC11, LPS11, MR11, M873, KD11F, RK05 (regular, > F, > and J). > > My plan is to scan the articles, and have an on-line database hanging > off of a web site. I also want to implement a bar code system for my > goodies. That'll take a while, though. > > Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980710/7f7813b9/attachment.html From poesie at geocities.com Fri Jul 10 22:50:10 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things as well. any info appreciated. thanks! -Eric From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Jul 11 01:17:17 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Apple & Commodore questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, The Adept wrote: > The C64C utilized a reduced chip design, replaced the MOS6510 with > an MOS8510 and SID was changed but not for the better (could only do > 3 voices instead of 4, don't remember if it was the white noise > channel that was dropped) and the VIC-II also received a new > chip revision. I don't think any voices were dropped from the SID, it always had three music voices plus white noise. The problem was that Commodore 'fixed' a 'bug' (aka feature) in the SID chip. This 'bug' had been used to play digitized sound samples. IIRC. > Dan Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 10 23:42:19 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: > I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this >is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight >68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and >just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the >same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to >several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things >as well. any info appreciated. thanks! > >-Eric It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. However, can't you add an FPU to the Performa? I seem to remember that you can do such things, but... Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 02:31:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard drives? I recently had two hard drives go south on me. One was my 2.5" IDE in my laptop...scary considering it had all my notes, memos and source code. The other was a 3.5" IDE on the voicemail system in the office. The laptop was a physical crash; the voicemail was a soft crash (directory got over-written somehow). I took the hard drives to a data recovery shop (Data Recovery Group in San Leandro for the locals). They have complete clean room and repair facilities. The data recovery technician, Yongin, opened up the 2.5" HD in the clean room and found the head had gone bad. He assembled a new head onto the drive but it wasn't repairable: it was a temporary fix to get the data off. He then proceeded to extract all the directories I told him were the most critical. Over all he said he was able to read about 60% of the 1.2GB drive. The other drive he found had a bad root directory, apparently having been over-written with random data (I suspect a virus). They basically used Norton Utilities on that to locate the lost directories and re-link them. They were able to recover the entire drive contents. What I wanted to discuss is the possibility of doing home drive repair without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room air and be worked on without introducing dangerous dust particles onto the platter? Figuring out the data on the drive is the easy part, compared with actually trying to read the data off the platter, whether the problem be a failed head or a crashed head. Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the platter. If anyone would like to continue this discussion, please reply to me privately. Thanks! BTW, the above drive repair cost $1,490 total. Not only is the job challenging and fun, but highly lucrative. Back that data up! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 02:36:56 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980710213935.006a33a0@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) > time and money on ebay. The following is ashort list as the number of eBay will do you in every time. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 06:57:30 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <199807111157.EAA25250@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's >my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. There's also the program 'SoftFPU' (or something like that) which emulates an FPU. Slow, but it works. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From poesie at geocities.com Sat Jul 11 07:40:44 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <000e01bdacc9$20383380$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Well, the cpu on this mac is socketed, i *could* just pop it out- in fact it resembles an intel type chip very much. that's what really piqued my interest. -Eric From: Zane H. Healy Subject: Re: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? >>just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the >>same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to >>several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things >>as well. any info appreciated. thanks! >> >>-Eric > >It requires a special accelerator board to change the CPU on a Mac. It's >my guess that at best it wouldn't work, at worst it would fry something. > >However, can't you add an FPU to the Performa? I seem to remember that you >can do such things, but... From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 07:45:15 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much > >Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I blame it on you:) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 11 08:33:18 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 10, 98 10:50:10 pm Message-ID: <199807111333.JAA15416@user2.infinet.com> Eric writes: > ...a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight > 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and > just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the > same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to > several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things > as well. any info appreciated. thanks! I can's speak for the Mac, but I did upgrade the 68EC030 (no MMU) to a full 68030 on my Amiga 4000/030. It has a daughter card with the CPU and FPU that snaps into a so-called "Fast" slot. I removed the old chip (QFP) and soldered on the new one. I do not receommend it unless you have extensive SMT experience. It does, however, work. The reason I can't say whether it will work for a Mac is that Apple is picky. The Toolbox ROMs *might* expect certain things from certain models of CPU, and freak out if the wrong processor is installed. I just don't know enough about Mac firmware to say. The hardware, OTOH, will be fine. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Sat Jul 11 08:38:50 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 11, 98 01:10:38 am Message-ID: <199807111338.JAA15476@user2.infinet.com> > A 'scope, though is worth getting. An old, valved Tektronix is still a > good instrument, and you can get them for <$50 in the UK. I've got a valved Tek, a 314, IIRC. It has a round display, not square. I bought it at an auction five years ago at EG&G (a defense contractor). The scope has an Atomic Energy Commission inventory sticker on it, probably the coolest thing about it. -ethan From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 08:50:21 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980711135021.11892.qmail@hotmail.com> [snip] of doing home drive repair >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 08:57:31 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:10 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711085731.006a3248@pop3.concentric.net> I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). Now since I've got the 1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much >> >>Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) > >Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I >blame it on you:) > >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 11 09:28:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980711085731.006a3248@pop3.concentric.net> References: <001201bdacc9$c19df340$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980711092855.46a78bd6@intellistar.net> Wow, 1800 sq feet of warehouse and four more units! I'm glad John isn't in this part of the country! I'd never find anything! Joe At 08:57 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). Now since I've got the >1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> Well things are getting harder to find and I have been spending too much >>> >>>Well, no kidding, John! You've bought everything up! :) >> >>Yep everytime I come back empty handed from a flea market or big sale I >>blame it on you:) >> >>Francois >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >> >> >> > > From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 10:56:42 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <005701bdace4$9177a420$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Do you live in TX or MN? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). That's because I went there in the mean time :) >Now since I've got the >1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Jul 11 07:46:35 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any ideas on the Sad Mac code? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:02:36 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <19980711180236.2973.qmail@hotmail.com> I have the feeling this is the early version, because mine is the later backlit one, which has no dip switches. The sad mac code could very easily be due to a power problem. It will sadmac if there isn't enough power. Note that running off the portable AC adapter is _not_ enough. You need an additional .5 amps, whereever you get it. >Hello, all: > > Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and >I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. > > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a >small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a >sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad >Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I >get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks >and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, >since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk >created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. > > Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any >ideas on the Sad Mac code? > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Jul 11 13:07:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions In-Reply-To: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a > small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a > sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad > Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I Ah, you've just had first hand experience with one of Murphy's Laws: the error code that you get won't be documented. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 11 13:34:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807111834.AA06194@world.std.com> < of doing home drive repair < >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of < >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow < and < >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room < >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou < < Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does < make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. Not entirely true. ESD does permanent damage to the device even if it doesn't die. ALL (that I know of) drives have an internal air filter to pick up any dust that may appear so if the media is not damaged the air will be cleaned and reliability should be nominal (excludes the reason for first opening it). I have several drives I've had to open all running and all apparently living longer than average! Allison From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 11 13:52:19 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: **** snip **** > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then > you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass > shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head > calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the > platter. You forget that what permits the high areal density on current drives is the fact that the heads are able to fly so close to the magnetic media surface. What you propose would probably make your 1.2gb drive into about a 1.2kb drive! - don From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 15:30:17 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: Message-ID: <35A7CB59.D66CE85B@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > > This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a > short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard > drives? To bring it back on topic, I made the prototype circuit boards for one of the first removable HD companys (DMA Systems) and talked quite a bit with the engineers who did the design. I was told that as long as the area is reasonably clean, a clean room environment was not necessary (for a short time period) to run the drives with the cover off. Of course the obvious precautions like a relatively dust free room, and not smoking around the running drives need to be observed. From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 15:30:27 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet References: Message-ID: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Attended another great swapmeet today and picked up some things I had been looking for. One friend of mine met me there and gave me a Lisa 2. Another friend brought over an AMD single board computer circa 1976. At the swapmeet itself, I picked up a Commodore SX64 along with most of the docs. At the end, everything was free and I picked up a Tandy 1400 LT Portable, HP85, IBM Professional Graphics Monitor, Tandy Plotter, Zenith Monitor in the box, a Cannon mono scanner and card, and some other misc. stuff. I also picked up one of the old Military Morse Code trainers and a bunch of tapes for $20. It is a good thing I only drive a 280ZX since I would have filled almost any vehicle I would have brought :). A bunch of things got dumpstered that I just don't have the room to store including a couple of Tektronics 435 scopes, some Heathkit test equipment, and some Eico scopes and other test equipment. Oh well, there will always be next year! BTW total outlay for everything I got was around $50. From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 11 15:58:23 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Message-ID: Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare (prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody else did about an hour later). What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their models? (BTW, instead I came home with another GRiD 1900, another HP Portable Plus, another Epson PX-8, and another NEC 8201A at an average cost of $6 each. I have met my spare machine quota.) -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 16:03:53 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet Message-ID: <199807112103.OAA16898@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Marvin and all, At 01:30 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Attended another great swapmeet today and picked up some things I had >been looking for. Couid you and others that mention finds in swapmeets mention what the swapmeet was and where it is. I know it does not help for all the stuff already dumstered, but... Thanks. -Dave From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 16:29:52 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Son of the return of Finds Message-ID: <001201bdad13$1d55fb80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Just got back I bought whatever was left in the room, it was an estate sale and I got my van filled from floor to ceiling, I almost had to leave my wife and kids there to get everything home:) I got a very long list to inventory but so far: HP 150 HP 87 HP 75C HP 75D Cassette unit for the above Acousic modem for above HP 85 Plotter 7470? with HPIB misc printers misc monitors PC compatibles Four cases (dish barrel style) of software for the above plus misc MAC manuals (the MACs were gone :( And more... By the way the total put of pocket for the whole thing including yesterdays finds $78. I love to brag about great finds :) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:06:53 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <005701bdace4$9177a420$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711170653.006a3f8c@pop3.concentric.net> Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do alot of road running between the two states. At 10:56 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Do you live in TX or MN? >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > >>I do leave some things on purpose and sometimes by mistake (thinking I will >>come back the next day or weekend to get it, GONE). > >That's because I went there in the mean time :) > >>Now since I've got the >>1800 sq ft warehouse space down in Texas, I hope pull all the items from >>public storage and other places together to start selling and trading the >>dup's that I have. Right now my wife and I figure it will take me three >>months to sort it all out and that after moving 4 units of stuff from here >>in MN to Texas to go with the four units I emptied there back May. >>Bottom line is you will get chance to get some items after all. John >>At 07:45 AM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:13:05 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions In-Reply-To: <007001bdace9$6794bbc0$4712fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711171305.006a3910@pop3.concentric.net> Go to www.bford.demon.co.uk/mac/portablefaq.txt for list of the portable codes and what they mean. John At 08:46 AM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > Well, I began to clean up the spoils of my recent recovery mission, and >I'm having problems with the Mac Portable that I got. > > Besides the hard drive and batteries being shot and the screen having a >small defect in it, I keep getting a Sad Mac code. It's code 0000000F with a >sub code of 00007FFF. I can't find a reference to the $0F code in any Sad >Mac code listings that I have (they skip over it, going from $0E to $10). I >get the code after inserting a known-working diskette. I've tried 400k disks >and 800k disks with the same results. I haven't tried a 1.44m disk yet, >since I don't have a recent Mac to create one. I've tried a 1.44m disk >created by HVFExplorer, but I get the "bad disk" message. > > Also, there's a 4-position DIP switch on the mobo. What's this for? Any >ideas on the Sad Mac code? > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin! Charter Member > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers ><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 11 17:19:12 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: References: <35A7CB63.B9FC46A5@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711171912.006a7384@pop3.concentric.net> I hear Apple would give these away to dealers, salesman, and others. I missed a newton on ebay that was clear also it went for close to $400 I think. At 03:58 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >else did about an hour later). > >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? > >(BTW, instead I came home with another GRiD 1900, another HP Portable >Plus, another Epson PX-8, and another NEC 8201A at an average cost of $6 >each. I have met my spare machine quota.) > >-- Doug > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 11 17:07:44 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:58:23 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199807112208.PAA09291@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > models? I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige case. Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. -Frank McConnell From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:30:48 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a >short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard >drives? Sam, I've got to disagree on this being off topic. Granted the case you are talking about is with modern drives, but I'm sure this is something of interest to many of us on the list. Consider this my request to please keep the discussion on the list. Unfortunalty I can't contribute to the discussion, as I've been meaning to research this, but haven't had time. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 11 16:37:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 11, 98 00:31:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/ddfaa0a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 11 16:44:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Wang Thang In-Reply-To: <199807111338.JAA15476@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 11, 98 09:38:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980711/7db75f00/attachment.ksh From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 18:45:34 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <002601bdad26$00230720$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. Any takers in the Mpls/St Paul area? Eric? Anyone else? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do >alot of road running between the two states. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:40:34 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? In-Reply-To: <199807111333.JAA15416@user2.infinet.com> References: <000301bdac7f$01a5a960$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> from "Poesie" at Jul 10, 98 10:50:10 pm Message-ID: >I can's speak for the Mac, but I did upgrade the 68EC030 (no MMU) to >a full 68030 on my Amiga 4000/030. It has a daughter card with the CPU >and FPU that snaps into a so-called "Fast" slot. I removed the old chip >(QFP) and soldered on the new one. I do not receommend it unless you have >extensive SMT experience. It does, however, work. That's big time gutsy, normally taking a soldering iron to a computer doesn't bother me, but the though of messing up an Amiga accidentally does! I still haven't worked up the nerve to do the INT2 upgrade on my A3000 (in part because I've not come up with the cash for an Accelerator, in part because it's such a pain to work on). BTW the 68040 daughter cards (3640 IIRC) are dirt cheap now, you can find Rev. 3.2 for $200 or less, and earlier revisions are even cheaper. The down side to the Commodore 68040 board is it doesn't have any additional RAM slots on the card. >The reason I can't say whether it will work for a Mac is that Apple is >picky. The Toolbox ROMs *might* expect certain things from certain models >of CPU, and freak out if the wrong processor is installed. I just don't >know enough about Mac firmware to say. The hardware, OTOH, will be fine. This is part of the problem. In fact I believe this is why when using a Macintosh Emulator on an Amiga you can use some ROMs but not others. > >-ethan Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Jul 11 19:05:28 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum Message-ID: <005501bdad28$f029a4c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would >really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to >endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. ^^^^^^^^ Yeah I don't get it either I meant eyebrow. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From wpe at interserv.com Sat Jul 11 19:06:42 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Yard Sale Finds Message-ID: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 (I think) that used to be in the old DEC PRO-350's, two LPT ports, and one serial port. Also a 5 3/4" floppy drive... Anyone ever heard of these people, or know anything about their stuff? 3 Monitors, one NEC, one Samsung, and one Tandy. A Citizen MSP-20 printer.. Cost of this "rescue" US 20$, and the people even helped load it into my car.. Now to sort it all out, and see "what works, and what don't". Will From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 19:46:23 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >else did about an hour later). I don't believe they were prototypes; more of souvenir-type deals, I believe. I could see paying $200, $300 is more than I'd spend for most any 'classic' computer. >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 19:46:29 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <199807120046.RAA01865@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > I have the adapter, and it looks to be the one made for the machine >(i.e., not a Powerbook 140 adapter). I'm having big problems with mine -- an >unidentified Sad Mac code (0000000F, sub code 00007FFF). I can't find a >reference to $0F in any reference docs that I have; the codes skip from $0E >to $10. Can't get it to boot at all. As soon as I get the Happy Mac face, I >get the above Sad Mac. I also have a bad hard drive. I can't find any mention of it either. And of course, if it doesn't start up, it's awfully hard to run the diagnostic software. I never did understand that... I'd say the HD is the least of your problems. After all, you can always run the system of the floppy and there is an external SCSI port. There's a guy in Virgina who does a lot of work with Mac Portables; he has adapters so that you can use normal SCSI HD's internally for $30. If anybody's really interested I can probably find his name and email somewhere. > I'm going to research the batteries. I hear that you can rebuild the >pack with 3 ea. 2v/5ah Gates "D" batteries which are commonly available in >the surplus market. The packs that I have say "Gates Energy Products" on >them. I've heard of people rebuilding them also, though I have never tried (I don't currently own a Portable). Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 11 19:52:26 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Another Good Swapmeet References: <199807112103.OAA16898@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <35A808CA.B920CC0@rain.org> dave dameron wrote: > Couid you and others that mention finds in swapmeets mention what the > swapmeet was and where it is. I know it does not help for all the > stuff > already dumstered, but... > Thanks. Sure, this one is an annual event put on by the Santa Barbara Amateur Radio Club as a club fundraiser. It starts at 9AM and by 11AM, everything left is free. Another thing that got to the dumpster was a DecWrite II. From dcoward at pressstart.com Sat Jul 11 21:03:32 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: TTY art Message-ID: <19980711193252.0a9992fd.in@mail.pressstart.com> A few months ago, someone was looking for Teletype art. Today I found " the RTTY Handbook" (Tab Books No. 597, Wayne Green, 1972). It has a chapter on RTTY art, it history, and 5 or 6 examples. Here's one by Ralph Larson of Teletype Corp. ..... .. XXXXX:::XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: XXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXX:: ..:IXX::XXXXXX:XXXX::.:':XXXX:: ..::::XX:XXXXXX:XXXX:'::':XXXXX:: ..:::'X:XXXXXXXX':XXXX:XXXXXXXX':. ...:X'.'XXXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXXXXXX'XXX:. ....:X.:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:'XXXX: ...."X.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"""'' :XXXXXX: ...::'"""''''"'""""'''' :XXXXXX: ..:.:..... .:XXXXX: :..::..... :'XXXXX: .:::.... .:XXXXX ::'''' .:XXXXX . ....,, ...... :XXXXX ::: .::" XXX ::' ''": .XXXX:. :.: :::"MM'""X .:"MM '. "X"'.: ::' I:..:.:X ."''.' .::' : ::XI XI ::: : :XX XI .::"': :X' .:. /X. .::: . '"".... /XXX.:XX. ...: . ":.... '::"' ...:. ':... ...: :.... :..:II:II:..: ...: ':.... ::. ..:: ':... '"""""' .::: .:... . ..::::' ':.... : ..:'.XXI:... ....:::X:... .:::::' XXXXXXI:X:. .....:::XXXXXXXX::::::......:::::' .XXXXXXXIMMM::. .::XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:::::::::::::::' .XXXXXXXXXMMMMMMM:. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'::::::::::::' .'.:XXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX '::::::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::'. ' .XXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .'WWWW. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXX'MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .'WWWWWW .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .:WWWW" ' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX : 'WW' ' XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.MMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX' :.WWW' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"MMMMMMMMMM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX...WWWWW......XXXXXXXXXX LARSON OF TELETYPE ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Jul 11 17:44:00 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Places to try in Rochester, NY? In-Reply-To: <009901bdac27$3293f020$a210fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <199807120222.WAA13017@commercial.cgocable.net> Hi guys! I'm visiting (right now living with friend) Rochester NY. What's the good places to try for old and used computers parts , including classics focused on mostly peecees parts? Thanks! Oh, good luck on yours spate of recent pickups successes! About the HD, my luck runs usually with component level repairs on circuit boards but very poor results in cracked open HDs repairs. Jason D. Jason D. jpero@pop.cgocable.net From rexstout at uswest.net Sat Jul 11 21:45:04 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz edition Apple IIgs computers. >every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of which can cost a LOT of money. > I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear >plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of >the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something >about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? I haven't heard that. You can always paint them, but why? There was the beige used on the 128k through the Plus, and starting with later Pluses and SE's, they went to a greyish color they call platinum. And there was the MacTV which came in a black case, and the PowerBooks which came in platinum or black depending on the model. I've never heard of a Mac II or LC with a clear case, unless they were custom made cases for specific applications... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:07:39 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online text or PDF copy. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Jul 11 22:10:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> < I'e thought about making a plastic (perspex/plexiglass) box with the < fan/filter from a demountable drive (I have that sort of thing in my junk < box) to blow clean air into the unit. Then take the drive apart, fix it, < put it back. A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be clear with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily excees class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. < 1) Open up a drive, repair it in a minor way (say replace a pre-amp chip < on the flex cable, replace the end stops, that sort of thing), and have < it run long enough to get the data off it. I've done this on at least 4 micropolus 1325s (rd53, 71mb) that had gummy end stops and one that had a misset end stop! none have been under special conditions described. I also have a st506 that I put a plexi cover on about 10 years ago, still runs though not currently in use (has CP/M on it). < 2) Open up a drive, or several drives, and move parts around, including < heads and platters, to make a working drive that'll run for quite a long < time. Long enough to think of installing it in a classic computer that I < was using. Never considered this. though I have several I could experiment on. < < Doing (1) means you have to be able to align heads, etc, over the < existing tracks on the media. Doing (2) probably requires a lower dust < particle count. Not really. < > filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room < > air and be worked on without introducing dangerous dust particles onto t Look at the air flow and realize that dust on the platter is suffering from centrifical force of the platters at 3600 rpm. There is an amazing amount of moving air trying to send everything to the periphery! < > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the < > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over th < > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then < < Remember that as data density increases, you need to lower the flying < height of the head. That's why demountable drives have a lower capacity th < winchesters of the same period. The demountable has to have a higher < flying height due to the fact that it's 'dirtier'. All true but... the newer drive are plated metal (cobalt and nickle are hard!) and some of the substrates used are ceramic and even glass for rigiditity. < The old drum stores had fixed heads. The height was set by the screw < mounts of the heads - and in general it was quite high because of < mechanical errors in making the thing. The flying heads of the hard disks < meant that the head would follow slight run-out in the platter, allowing < a lower flying height and higher density. The problem there was bearing runout, the concentricity of the drum and it's size setting up mechaical vibrations. Later drums would float the head on a spring and didn't suffer many of the problems as they could float. < For this reason, I think it's possibly realistic to consider working on < 50Mbyte and below - maybe up to 100Mbyte - winchesters at home, given a < clean box. I personally feel that the 1.2Gbyte 2.5" units will not be < capable of being repaired in a clean box, though - the flying height is < just too low. But I'd love to be proved wrong. I ran an old 320mb 3.5" conner with the cover off as it would not seek to home track without help. ran like that for several hours while I copied it. It's internal airflow from the platters rotating were quite impressive. Like I said in an earlier mail, all these drive have internal filters that take advanatage of the airflow to capture any dust that makes it in. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:11:30 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: Message-ID: <35A82962.15C00BB4@bbtel.com> We had 10" drives in our test rack tied to an HP 1000 minicomputer that had both removable and fixed platters. They weren't crash proof but were replaceable in the shop, no dust room since there was positive airflow through the drive unit. You didn't dare sweep the floor though! As far as head calibration you were looking at a very expensive set of instruments for this and the platters alone were costly. Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > **** snip **** > > > Why can't they make a hard drive that's crash proof? Even if the > > mechanics fail, can't some hardend substance like glass be layed over the > > platter so if the head did crash it would only scratch the glass? Then > > you would simply open the drive, pull out the platter, replace the glass > > shield if necessary, then insert it into a working assembly. The head > > calibration would be adjusted to compensate for the extra distance to the > > platter. > > You forget that what permits the high areal density on current drives is > the fact that the heads are able to fly so close to the magnetic media > surface. What you propose would probably make your 1.2gb drive into > about a 1.2kb drive! > - don -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:12:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: TTY art References: <19980711193252.0a9992fd.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <35A829A2.1FD5EB33@bbtel.com> Somewhere around here I have some nudes and cartoons, will have to dig deep into my old ARC files. Doug Coward wrote: > A few months ago, someone was looking for Teletype art. > > Today I found " the RTTY Handbook" (Tab Books No. 597, > Wayne Green, 1972). > It has a chapter on RTTY art, it history, and 5 or 6 > examples. Here's one by Ralph Larson of Teletype Corp. > > ..... .. > XXXXX:::XXXXXXXXXXXXX > XXX:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: > XXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXXXX:XXXXX:: > ..:IXX::XXXXXX:XXXX::.:':XXXX:: > ..::::XX:XXXXXX:XXXX:'::':XXXXX:: > ..:::'X:XXXXXXXX':XXXX:XXXXXXXX':. > ...:X'.'XXXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXXXXXX'XXX:. > ....:X.:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:'XXXX: > ...."X.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"""'' :XXXXXX: > ...::'"""''''"'""""'''' :XXXXXX: > ..:.:..... .:XXXXX: > :..::..... :'XXXXX: > .:::.... .:XXXXX > ::'''' .:XXXXX > . ....,, ...... :XXXXX > ::: .::" XXX ::' ''": .XXXX:. > :.: :::"MM'""X .:"MM '. "X"'.: > ::' I:..:.:X ."''.' .::' : > ::XI XI ::: : > :XX XI .::"': > :X' .:. /X. .::: . > '"".... /XXX.:XX. ...: . > ":.... '::"' ...:. > ':... ...: > :.... :..:II:II:..: ...: > ':.... ::. ..:: > ':... '"""""' .::: > .:... . ..::::' > ':.... : ..:'.XXI:... > ....:::X:... .:::::' XXXXXXI:X:. > .....:::XXXXXXXX::::::......:::::' .XXXXXXXIMMM::. > .::XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:::::::::::::::' .XXXXXXXXXMMMMMMM:. > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'::::::::::::' .'.:XXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX '::::::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::::' .' .XXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ':::::'. ' .XXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .'WWWW. .XXXXXXXXXXXXXX'MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .'WWWWWW .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. .:WWWW" ' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX : 'WW' ' XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.MMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX' :.WWW' .XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"MMMMMMMMMM > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX...WWWWW......XXXXXXXXXX LARSON OF TELETYPE > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 22:19:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm Message-ID: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sat Jul 11 22:39:16 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right place). Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? -- Doug From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Jul 11 23:28:21 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - IBM Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980712002753.00691cc0@netpath.net> Speaking of curious cards: I just picked up 5 stripped down Dell 433p machines. Nothing in them except motherboard, 486-dx33 processor, and riser card. BUT... In two or three I found the following card. I didn't look hard enough at the numbers, but I can pretty much describe it: The card has one dsub shell, 9-pin on the back, there's a machined aluminum chip on the card, marked IBM, and there's an ODD and EVEN ROM set. My first guess was mono graphics cards (VGA is built-in to MB) but I got to thinking: Did IBM ever make a network card with this type of connector on it? All I know is twisted pair, coax, and have seen token ring stuff before but not worked with it. What does it sound like to you guys? (Slightly off-topic, by 3 years.) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 11 23:42:00 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA No, but I have one called a PC-68K made by Costanza and TLM Systems which looks for a disk with OS/9. - don > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Jul 11 23:46:14 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: Message-ID: <35A83F96.4E68489C@bbtel.com> No high voltage on an LCD, it's a low volt device that the presence or lack of voltage causes the cystals to align or scatter, causing balck or clear. There's two types and I don't need to go into the diffs in field effect and the other. Your outlook on what might be at fault is good. This is one of those things that someone that does this a lot could probably snap their fingers and have the answer. I personally haven't had that much experience with that machine and would have to dig in the schematics and do some hands on to try to isolate it. Doug Yowza wrote: > OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > place). > > Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > > I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy > the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > > -- Doug -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ecloud at goodnet.com Sat Jul 11 23:58:38 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Jul 11, 98 10:39:16 pm Message-ID: <199807120458.VAA09040@goodnet.com> > OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > place). > > Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? I think since LCD's have conductive traces on the glass, that to drive a column of pixels with the AC voltage necessary would involve bonding a flexible-circuit ribbon to the conductive traces along the edges. I would think that is the most likely culprit (maybe it got un-bonded), and probably next to impossible to repair (due to being microscopic traces, and lack of the right conductive adhesives, and general messiness). Then again, I have seen small LCD's that used a rubber sandwich (alternating thin layers of conductive rubber and non-conductive, stacked up to make a strip as wide as the LCD) to connect PC board traces with the transparent conductive stuff on the glass, so in that case maybe it'd just be a matter of cleaning and tightening.... If you try to fix it, you should probably be prepared to buy a new LCD JIC that becomes necessary. (Disclaimer: seldom have I ever tried to repair a LCD, never a laptop LCD, and never have I succeeded... I'm just guessing...) -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 11 23:58:55 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <6560f749.35a84291@aol.com> Ive also opened up hard drives here at the house, but i wouldnt bet on them running for much longer after. the next time you see sunlight streaming through a window, take a look. you'll actually be able to see all the dust particles floating around in the air even though you'd think most if not all dust would settle. In a message dated 98-07-11 09:52:03 EDT, you write: << [snip] of doing home drive repair >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow and >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou : Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does :make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. >> From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 12 00:00:03 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: <35A83F96.4E68489C@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > No high voltage on an LCD I guess high is a relative term, but after shorting out a WinBook back-light with my finger, I thought somebody hit me with a Taser. -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 12 00:24:07 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). Are the lines stationary? Wait a minute the lines are running top to bottom? Hmmm, not quite what I was thinking. I suspect the panel is going bad. Also what kind of an environment have you been using it in? Speaking of bad PowerBook panels, does anyone know if it's possible to replace a backlight? I've got a PB520c (It's a classic even though it's not 10 years old), and I used it so much while in the Navy that I wore the backlight out (I was using it about 12 hours a day for 6 months while on a cruise, what can I say, I was sitting in a computer room by myself babysitting a mainframe, and learning Mac programming). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Jul 12 00:35:46 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: >Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has >amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says >it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA What kind, if any, connectors does it have? Any other important chips(like UARTs, transceivers, controllers, etc...)? >Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? I doubt it, but anythings possible... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 00:29:49 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Adds to Museum In-Reply-To: <002601bdad26$00230720$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712002949.006a560c@pop3.concentric.net> Name a date and time, I will be going to Chicago either the 18th or 25th to shop for classic's. I'm waiting on a guy there to call me (never talked with him) as he knows all the places there to go for old computers. At 06:45 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >How about we try to get together like the folks in California? I would >really love to talk to some people about old computers without having to >endure all the jokes and elbow rising that I usually get. >Any takers in the Mpls/St Paul area? Eric? Anyone else? >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > >>Both I live and work in MN (for now) and my family lives in Houston. I do >>alot of road running between the two states. > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 00:34:31 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807120046.RAA01812@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712003431.006a15e0@pop3.concentric.net> Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? John At 05:46 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare >>(prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my >>lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody >>else did about an hour later). > >I don't believe they were prototypes; more of souvenir-type deals, I >believe. I could see paying $200, $300 is more than I'd spend for most >any 'classic' computer. > >>What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >>clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >>models? > > I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale >every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. > I've seen and heard of lots of different Macs being done in clear >plastic. In addition to the Portable you mentioned, several members of >the Mac II family, as well as the LC. I also vaguely remember something >about a green Mac Classic. Anybody? > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:44:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - IBM References: <3.0.32.19980712002753.00691cc0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35A84D3D.86D5C294@bbtel.com> IBM token ring network card - I have probably 100 or more of these. John Higginbotham wrote: > Speaking of curious cards: I just picked up 5 stripped down Dell 433p > machines. Nothing in them except motherboard, 486-dx33 processor, and riser > card. BUT... In two or three I found the following card. I didn't look hard > enough at the numbers, but I can pretty much describe it: > > The card has one dsub shell, 9-pin on the back, there's a machined aluminum > chip on the card, marked IBM, and there's an ODD and EVEN ROM set. My first > guess was mono graphics cards (VGA is built-in to MB) but I got to > thinking: Did IBM ever make a network card with this type of connector on > it? All I know is twisted pair, coax, and have seen token ring stuff before > but not worked with it. What does it sound like to you guys? > > (Slightly off-topic, by 3 years.) > > - > - john higginbotham ____________________________ > - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > - limbo limbo.netpath.net - -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:46:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: Message-ID: <35A84DA5.505B0D42@bbtel.com> The backlight is a little bit different story and I must admit I forgot all about the backlight. It's low voltage in essence but holds a good jolt like a capacitor or xenon flash tube. Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > No high voltage on an LCD > > I guess high is a relative term, but after shorting out a WinBook > back-light with my finger, I thought somebody hit me with a Taser. > > -- Doug -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:56:53 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:11 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A85024.453DEFBB@bbtel.com> It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount (like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board as well. The MicroCom part number is 05-0003402-0010 I must admit I haven't tried to search out to see if MicroCom is even in existance any longer but I should. John Rollins wrote: > >Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > >amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > >it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > What kind, if any, connectors does it have? Any other important chips(like > UARTs, transceivers, controllers, etc...)? > > >Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > I doubt it, but anythings possible... > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:57:41 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A85054.3D72DA0A@bbtel.com> This doesn't appear to have any disk I/O function. See the reply I did with more details. Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > No, but I have one called a PC-68K made by Costanza and TLM Systems which > looks for a disk with OS/9. > - don > > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > ICQ UIN #1714857 > > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 00:59:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery References: <6560f749.35a84291@aol.com> Message-ID: <35A850B2.27A76A3E@bbtel.com> Just the mositure droplets from your breath ot the dead skin and hair from your body is enough to screw it over. SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Ive also opened up hard drives here at the house, but i wouldnt bet on them > running for much longer after. the next time you see sunlight streaming > through a window, take a look. you'll actually be able to see all the dust > particles floating around in the air even though you'd think most if not all > dust would settle. > > In a message dated 98-07-11 09:52:03 EDT, you write: > > << [snip] > of doing home drive repair > >without the luxury of a clean room. Is it possible to use some sort of > >cheaply available or easily made vacuum chamber with positive airflow > and > >filtering, or is it absolutely required? Can a drive be opened in room > >air and be worked on without introducing dangerou > > : Well, I've opened drives in room air and had them run after, but it does > :make it less reliable. It's a thing like ESD: if you want to risk it. >> -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From KFergason at aol.com Sun Jul 12 01:04:33 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm Message-ID: Probably not a compatibility thing, more likely a co-processor board of some sort, like the Definicon. Kelly In a message dated 7/11/98 10:20:42 PM Central Daylight Time, rhblake@bbtel.com writes: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 01:15:24 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A8547C.57820BF7@bbtel.com> Hopefully someone knows this card by use and hopefully I might have a new toy to mess with after the Dell server. KFergason@aol.com wrote: > Probably not a compatibility thing, more likely a co-processor board > of some sort, like the Definicon. > > Kelly > > In a message dated 7/11/98 10:20:42 PM Central Daylight Time, > rhblake@bbtel.com writes: > > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > > > Is this some sort of card to get Apple/Mac compatibility? > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 12 01:12:56 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman's message of Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:19:13 -0500 References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807120612.XAA24128@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA Microcom makes modems. Maybe other datacomm stuff too. What kinds of connectors are on the back plate? I have a full-length ISA 8-bit card here with a 68000 on it -- it's a Telebit modem. I'm not sure whether it's a T1000 or a TrailBlazer Plus though. -Frank McConnell From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 01:36:15 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: <35A82B30.9D1364AE@bbtel.com> <199807120612.XAA24128@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35A8595F.C69C2E0B@bbtel.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Anyone ever heard of a full length 16 bit ISA AT type card that has > > amonst all the componets a Motorola 68000 (16mhz) processor? It says > > it's made by Microcom, Inc....made in USA > > Microcom makes modems. Maybe other datacomm stuff too. What kinds > of connectors are on the back plate? > > I have a full-length ISA 8-bit card here with a 68000 on it -- > it's a Telebit modem. I'm not sure whether it's a T1000 or a > TrailBlazer Plus though. > > -Frank McConnell I knew they made primarily modems and this may be some sort of modem associated with a token ring network too, or a multiplexer or something. Never saw one and the 68000 got me wondering. It has only a 9 pin sub-d on the backplate. I wrote up a detailed explative in an earlier post. Thanks. So how's life with Mr. McC lately?? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 12 01:57:06 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Speaking of Mac Portables, how much would you pay for a very rare > (prototype?) Mac Portable in a clear plastic case? I couldn't overcome my > lack of love for Macs to pay the $300 asking price today (but somebody > else did about an hour later). Did they finally sell that stupid thing, or did they just say they did? That dumb thing has been around for over a year now. Everytime I saw the guy, he was "taking offers". I was going to offer $200-$300 next time I saw it, but that was last year. It wasn't really a prototype, but rather a special edition that was made by some rogue engineers inside Apple or something like that for some comemorative event. > What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > models? I was talking to a guy one day and he mentioned that it was a fad at one point to build clone Apple ][s in clear plastic cases. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:19:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <35A8639D.F735E81B@bbtel.com> Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA slot? This is my first hardware level adventure with an EISA machine and right now it has EISA controllers and open slots, that I would love to put certain ISA cards (sound for one) into but while I'm reasonably sure, I don't want to risk blowing anything up. I've been under the understanding that EISA was backward compatible with ISA. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Sun Jul 12 02:27:55 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <35A8639D.F735E81B@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA > slot? EISA is a very cool bus (and is almost on topic, being ratified as a standard in early 1989, to combat MCA). It is 100% backward compatible with ISA. There are standoffs at the bottom of the EISA card connectors so that ISA cards won't make electrical contact with the EISA part of the socket. EISA cards are slotted so as to fit all the way down in. ok r. From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Jul 12 02:31:37 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm In-Reply-To: <35A85024.453DEFBB@bbtel.com> References: Message-ID: It's a Token Ring card. The 252-1C TR marking and the TMS380C16 chip give it away. The 380C16 is a Token Ring processor chip. The Silicom 5000 sounds like some sort of filter. The 62256 are RAM chips. >It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a >label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big >block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the >left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount >(like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On >the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it >has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the >lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers >to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on >it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board >as well. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:35:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Curious card - MicrComm References: Message-ID: <35A8672D.ACDD1AC6@bbtel.com> I have a feeling you're right after wading through tons of nothing on MicroCom's site, which is a division of Compaq. Hopefully they'll send me some info docs on it this week so I positively ID this monster card. Thanks. John Rollins wrote: > It's a Token Ring card. The 252-1C TR marking and the TMS380C16 chip give > it away. The 380C16 is a Token Ring processor chip. The Silicom 5000 sounds > like some sort of filter. The 62256 are RAM chips. > > >It's got a 9 pin d-sub on the spine plate like a cga or token ring card and a > >label next to it that says 252-1C TR. On the board (upper right) it has a big > >block component like 2.5" x 2.5" roughly that says Silcom 5000 series. to the > >left of that it has a TI chip that looks like an oversized 386SX in a mount > >(like the 387 coprosser gets pushed into) that's numbered TMP380C16PQL. On > >the top edge, about middle it has a dip switch bank of 1-8 and next to that it > >has a reset type push switch. Of course the M68000P12F processor is on the > >lower left and it also has 2 female headers on the back with plastic spacers > >to acccept add on board or boards. There are two Mosell MS62256L-10PC chips on > >it too. There are other smaller DIP chips and a Motorola MC68901P on the board > >as well. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 02:38:18 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: Message-ID: <35A867EA.9EE3CE11@bbtel.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Am I nuts or is it possible to use 8 and 16 bit ISA cards in an EISA > > slot? > > EISA is a very cool bus (and is almost on topic, being ratified as a > standard in early 1989, to combat MCA). It is 100% backward compatible > with ISA. > > There are standoffs at the bottom of the EISA card connectors so that ISA > cards won't make electrical contact with the EISA part of the socket. EISA > cards are slotted so as to fit all the way down in. > Thanks very much Red. I saw the standoffs which made it look strange so I figured I'd better ask just to be sure. I wasn't aware that the standoffs keep the card at a certain depth though, guess you learn something new everyday. Cool? I imagine, and this big puppy case is also a neat looking item that I'm going to put in as a server with all sorts of expectations. Appreciate the info thanks again. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 02:55:39 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <199807120755.AAA03822@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 10:39 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > I have seen vertical lines on LCD's, one or more pixels wide. These were swapped in a repair shop, so thought there was some ESD damage to the drivers on the LCD module. The lines were still there when the cables, controller were switched. The rest of the display still worked OK. It may have bad contacts to the LCD electrodes, as well, this could give the same effect, although open contacts may leave the addressed line "blank" not black. -Dave From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Jul 12 07:02:29 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable questions Message-ID: <003701bdad8e$6b60a8e0$4712fea9@mainoffice> On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:02:36 PDT, "Max Eskin" wrote: >>I have the feeling this is the early version, because mine is the later >>backlit one, which has no dip switches. The sad mac code could very >>easily be due to a power problem. It will sadmac if there isn't enough >>power. Note that running off the portable AC adapter is _not_ enough. >>You need an additional .5 amps, whereever you get it. Why is that? Who ever heard of a battery charger for a laptop being *just* a charger? So, if I hook-up a known-good battery power source of similar amperage to the internal battery slot, I should be good to go. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 08:32:39 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Michael Sheflin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Jul 12 08:45:18 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <020b01bdad9b$4ecdfae0$32f665cb@default> >What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >models? > I have an Apple ][ disk drive in a clear (orange) plastic case in front of me right now. The plastic itself just wraps around the top and two sides, with the back and bottom being grey plastic. It is a standard size isk ][ drive, badged on the back Apple Computer Ltd, Holly Hill Industrial Estate, Cork, Ireland just like the two other regular Disk ][ drives I have. But the plastic itself has no markings on it, so it MAY have been put on by an earlier owner. Phil Guerney - Brisbane, Australia. guerney@uq.net.au From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Jul 12 09:26:30 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <000801bdada1$10d6e2a0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> 86 computers at the last count 18 video consoles 6 hand-held games 456 game cartidges lots and lots of software and manuals Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:22:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <19980712152243.11652.qmail@hotmail.com> As I've said before, I think that getting the battery to work correctly will solve your sad mac problems. I was able to temporarily recharge the battery by taking an old power cable, plugging it in, and touching the cables to the battery terminals. It blew the surge protector a couple of times, but eventually, I was able to power up the mac. However, this will eventually wear off and the mac will cease to work again. When this happened to me, I decided to rebuild the battery, so I took it apart and left it on my shelf for a few months while the mac ran off two AC adapters. Then I decided I won't rebuild the battery after all because it would cost $30 to buy the cells, so I put it back together and reinserted it into the mac. The two AC adapters were still plugged in. After several weeks of sitting on this intensive overvoltaged charge cycle (during which the machine still worked), the battery is as reliable as it should be. I haven't tested it in fear that it might not recharge too well again, but the portable runs for 15 minutes at least w/o wall adapters. >I've heard of people rebuilding them also, though I have never tried (I >don't currently own a Portable). > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:37:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <19980712153800.14598.qmail@hotmail.com> I have no experience with this, but I am willing to bet that it's the ribbon cables that go from the circuit board to the LCD. I've known them to cause this. First, check that the glue or tape that holds them to the board didn't undo itself. If not, I have no idea how to replace them, since they are attached right onto the LCD panel. >No high voltage on an LCD, it's a low volt device that the presence or lack >of voltage causes the cystals to align or scatter, causing balck or clear. >There's two types and I don't need to go into the diffs in field effect and >the other. > >Your outlook on what might be at fault is good. This is one of those things >that someone that does this a lot could probably snap their fingers and have >the answer. I personally haven't had that much experience with that machine >and would have to dig in the schematics and do some hands on to try to >isolate it. > >Doug Yowza wrote: > >> OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >> (my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >> on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >> display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >> place). >> >> Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >> problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? >> >> I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy >> the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? >> >> -- Doug > > > >-- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 10:49:43 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980712154943.566.qmail@hotmail.com> Sure! I certainly have quite an aura of dandruff around me. Once, I opened up a 44MB hard drive because it wouldn't work (still don't know what's wrong). When I was closing it, I noticed that it had dust on the platter. After wiping it many times, blowing on it, etc. I found it was impossible to get it really clean. >Just the mositure droplets from your breath ot the dead skin and hair from your >body is enough to screw it over. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 10:55:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A8DC6E.56623D69@bbtel.com> Michael Sheflin wrote: > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin My own, probably 30...in work for sale probably 450. That doesn't include video terminals and other stuff. The network I have in here is for fun really as well as a continuous learning process with the new Dell server and now 8 workstations on it from 8088 XT to Pentium II 233 machines, all on NE2000 type cards. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 11:32:28 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807121632.JAA05416@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? I was just referring to , but I don't like to use those newsgroup names when I'm writing in English and not USENET. :-) Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 11:32:33 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807121632.JAA05462@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >> I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >>cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale >Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that >I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that >had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might >have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, >but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz >edition Apple IIgs computers. I don't mean in general production. I know I've seen 100's, 110's, and 120's advertised, not sure about 130's. I know I haven't seen any MP 2000's. There's an _excellent_ web site devoted to rare Newtons. I lost the url, but a search should bring it up without much trouble. >Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I >think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think >I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should >be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really >doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of >which can cost a LOT of money. When Apple discontinued the Newton a few months back there was a small protest held by Newton users and developers at Apple headquarters. At this Apple past around wooden Newtons for the people to look at it. I don't know if any have been released outside the company, though it wouldn't suprise me if some disappeared during the rally. >I haven't heard that. You can always paint them, but why? There was the >beige used on the 128k through the Plus, and starting with later Pluses and >SE's, they went to a greyish color they call platinum. And there was the >MacTV which came in a black case, and the PowerBooks which came in platinum >or black depending on the model. I've never heard of a Mac II or LC with a >clear case, unless they were custom made cases for specific applications... There were a few Powerbook 5xx's done in white. These are _very_ rare from what I understand (I've never seen one advertised, at any price). Anybody have a information on this unit? A picture? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 06:53:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 11, 98 11:10:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3152 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/e12cf9af/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 07:01:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 11, 98 10:24:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/5353030c/attachment.ksh From jrice at texoma.net Sun Jul 12 12:33:16 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A8F35C.354724B1@texoma.net> About 75, 16-17 of which I use regularly. Tandy's, Amiga's, Mac's, Apple 2GS, Clones, Commodores, TI99's, TS1000. James PS A couple of terminals also. Michael Sheflin wrote: > > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Jul 12 12:32:48 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807121632.JAA05462@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > When Apple discontinued the Newton a few months back there was a small > protest held by Newton users and developers at Apple headquarters. At > this Apple past around wooden Newtons for the people to look at it. I > don't know if any have been released outside the company, though it > wouldn't suprise me if some disappeared during the rally. I recall reading that John Sculley used these as demonstratative prototypes but that they didn't actually do anything, i.e. they were just carved blocks of wood. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 13:22:33 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ items. John At 06:32 AM 7/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 13:26:01 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807121632.JAA05416@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712132601.006a697c@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for the feedback John At 09:32 AM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Were does one find this Newton Classifieds ?? > >I was just referring to , but I don't like >to use those newsgroup names when I'm writing in English and not USENET. >:-) > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: > > > From yowza at yowza.com Sun Jul 12 13:39:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ > items. John And at an average cost of about $5 each, right? That reminds me of the dilemma I faced when I was buying my first new car: I could either pay $10K for the new car, or I could get a fleet of 50 old clunkers and start my own taxi business. :-) -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Jul 12 13:50:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807121850.AA08811@world.std.com> < However, a book on metal casting at home (did I mention I have other < insane interests...) mentions that vacuum cleaner motors produce a < reasonable pressure, but not that much air flow. It suggests a better < choice is a car heater fan motor. Those are also easy and cheap to get, < of course. It would, however a glove box of 8cuft (2x2x2) would not require much air flow once "cleared" and the remaining air needed is only that required to provide some trivial positive pressure to then insure clean air flows out and dirty air does not get sucked in. For that volumes in the 2-10cfm level is all than is needed. the positive pressure needed is on the order of 0.1" water. A vacuum motor is if anything over doing it as they are in the 200-500 cfm range. < Yep... That's the drive I rebuilt over the air stream from the RK07 :-). I've done a bunch of them and I just clear my work area and go to work. For the paranoid a vacuum with a hepa filter on the output blowing down on the work area might be in order but take care to not stir up dust. < I think it's going to be important to be able to do this in the future. < They'll come a point when there are no (say) Micropolis 1200s working, < but enough non-working ones lying about to be able to be able to make 2 < or 3 into a good one. A glove box is trivial to build. I'd use a 25 CFM blower and a small hepa filter and the box could be made with LEXAN (clear plastic) glued with RTV and cleaned well. the front would be a curtain of 6mil poly with velcro holding it to the edges. Holes would be provided to allow reaching in with plastic gloved hands. The hole to not have to be air tight around the gloves and the positive airflow in in the box would insure air flows out. Hint: filter is on the output side of the blower forcing air into the box and the outflow is through a coarse filter to limit outflow. < For that reason, maybe we should start keeping dead hard drives.... To perfect technique. Getting the right tools is half the battle. < Sure... I was pointing out that fixed (not sprung) heads -> higher flying < height (due to runout) -> lower density. Not that drums are always low < density devices. understood. Keep in mind the old fixed head drums were mecanically crude devices and magnetics were not well understood as yet. < I wonder why, therefore, that service manuals on winchesters always say < that you can't work on the insides of the HDA outside a clean room < (which, by implication, you don't have). Even when the same manufacturer < made demountable drives and did include instructions for head replacement < on those. Because if you making 500-1000 drives a day tossing 10-20 for damage due to someone sneezing is far to costly. Also they have to insure they are clean. But the level of clean needed is low. A hair net, nylon dust free gloves, no facial hair and a dustmask over the nose and mouth would eminimate 90% of human sources. Also not putting finger prints or other debries on the disk is a must as rag wiping is already far to filthy. there is care and there is paranoia. For example did you know that ESD is damaging to magnetic media? If you deliver a hard spark to the plated media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster for servo tracks. FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the media and is then captured in a filter. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 15:10:29 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <19980712201029.23911.qmail@hotmail.com> I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular PC. Next to it, it had an LCD panel and keyboard. The case was much uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought you people might be interested. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 12 15:47:04 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980712132233.006a7674@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980712154704.006a1248@pop3.concentric.net> for the most part that's close, I do have some that have cost me in the hundreds (200to400) per machine. Lately I have been getting alot of free items from people that find out I collect old machines, a old Lawyer friend called my last week and asked her to pick up some items he no longer wanted. I have not seem any of it yet, but on my next trip to Texas I get to see then and I will give an update on these new finds here. I get about one call a week here and I have not put an ad in the paper yet. So as always tell everyone you meet that you are a collector and see what happens it cost nothing to spread the word this way. John At 01:39 PM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> counting computers, printers, monitors, and ext drives I'm over a 1000+ >> items. John > >And at an average cost of about $5 each, right? That reminds me of the >dilemma I faced when I was buying my first new car: I could either pay >$10K for the new car, or I could get a fleet of 50 old clunkers and start >my own taxi business. :-) > >-- Doug > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 12:24:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Michael Sheflin" at Jul 12, 98 06:32:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/df6e14f6/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 12 19:51:25 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980712133239.14374.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35A95A0D.BB053672@rain.org> Michael Sheflin wrote: > > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Don't really know, but somewhere around 300 - 400, mostly micros. Probably another 20 - 30 monitors, 20+ printers, approx 200 cubic feet of books, magazines, and manuals, and an unknown quantity of assorted peripherals, disks, etc. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 12 20:24:03 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-12 10:21:45 EDT, you write: << >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > >> My last official count which was last fall, put me at 83. i have ~100 now, of which a few are going to a local radio rally next weekend. hopefully, i'll also be given a complete working mac si system. david From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 12 16:44:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807121850.AA08811@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 12, 98 02:50:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980712/b82b0c3e/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 21:20:45 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807130220.TAA12742@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? I have about 20 - 30 computers, about 15 monitors, and documentation for about half of the units. Mostly 8-bit systems and some Macs. I've got a pretty meager collection in comparison to most of you guys. :-) The pickings just aren't as good here in South-Central PA. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jul 12 20:20:58 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <199807112208.PAA09291@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal components. I guess they are used for promotional use after they're finished checking everything. I expect all the manufacturers do the same thing. Joe At 03:07 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >> What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember >> clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their >> models? > >I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember >seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, >but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. >Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige >case. > >Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear >cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. > >-Frank McConnell > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jul 12 21:07:03 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <199807120310.AA01370@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980712210703.306f2786@intellistar.net> At 12:53 PM 7/12/98 +0100, Tony wrote: >> >> A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums >> to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be clear >> with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily excees >> class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. > >Yes, that's the sort of thing..... > >However, a book on metal casting at home (did I mention I have other >insane interests...) mentions that vacuum cleaner motors produce a >reasonable pressure, but not that much air flow. It suggests a better >choice is a car heater fan motor. Those are also easy and cheap to get, >of course. I had been considering a range hood. The ones with a squirrel cage fan pull an lot of air and they aren't as noisy as the propeller type fans. Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 22:09:13 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable References: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35A97A58.9BA86EE4@bbtel.com> I know for fact that Western Electric did way back when to check the operation and fit of the mechanical parts in the phones. Joe wrote: > I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new > model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal > components. I guess they are used for promotional use after they're > finished checking everything. I expect all the manufacturers do the same > thing. > > Joe > > At 03:07 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> What is it with Apple and clear plastic cases anyways? I think I remember > >> clear plastic Apple ]['s at dealers. Did Apple do this for all of their > >> models? > > > >I remember clear plastic Apple ][ lids. In fact I think I remember > >seeing them for sale in Computerland in Rockville, MD way long ago, > >but can't recall whether they were made by Apple or just made to fit. > >Just the thing to show off your new computer inside its boring beige > >case. > > > >Apple is not alone in the clear-plastic business. I've seen clear > >cases for some older HP calculators from the mid-to-late 1970s. > > > >-Frank McConnell > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 12 22:36:15 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980712210703.306f2786@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Joe wrote: > At 12:53 PM 7/12/98 +0100, Tony wrote: > >> A plastic box with a blower and a HEPA filter from one of these new vacuums > >> to put clean air in the box at positive pressure. The front would be > clear with rubber gloves to allow reaching in. level of clean can easily > excess class 100. Adaquate for sophisticated drive repairs. > > I had been considering a range hood. The ones with a squirrel cage fan > pull an lot of air and they aren't as noisy as the propeller type fans. I would be a bit concerned about the pressure drop across the HEPA filter. Frankly, I am not familiar with them but a vacuum cleaner (centrifugal) blower is capable of rather greater pressure than a squirrel cage blower - which is designed for volume and not pressure. The volume of air from squirrel cage and HEPA could be insufficient to achieve the desired pressure and flow in the box. - don From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Jul 12 22:58:10 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts Message-ID: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for use only with the HP45849A. They're both complete and like new but I have no equipment to test them with. I know HP stuff is expensive even when used and these aren't all that old by their looks and styling so they should make some HP owner very happy. I have no use for them but yet I would hate to dismantle them or dump them. Anyone know what these are exactly and would anyone be interested in the wo of them, maybe a trade or something? Email direct if interested in them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Jul 13 00:29:55 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Have you seen this front panel? Message-ID: <35ae9ad0.106823003@hoser> I was recently moving some things around in the basement, and ran across a couple of control panels I picked up many years ago. I have no idea what they're from, but I'd like to know. If you think you can identify them, please take a look and let me know. They're on my web page under "Classic Computers/Unidentified Technological Artifacts". Any help would be appreciated! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 00:35:25 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <199807130535.WAA11158@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 12:55 AM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >>problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? >> >I have seen vertical lines on LCD's, one or more pixels wide. These were >swapped in a repair shop, so thought there was some ESD damage to the >drivers on the LCD module. The lines were still there when the cables, >controller were switched. The rest of the display still worked OK. It may >have bad contacts to the LCD electrodes, as well, this could give the same >effect, although open contacts may leave the addressed line "blank" not black. >-Dave > I did a search on ESD and found this page for display panels, CD's etc. that you have had enough of. >http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/Plasma.html There is also an interesting discussion of NIXIE and other display tubes if you go back to the main page. From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 13 00:39:07 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman's message of Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:58:10 -0500 References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Russ Blakeman writes: > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > use only with the HP45849A. Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the 9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. -Frank McConnell From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 06:39:17 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <199807130925.LAA28788@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I came across a performa 636cd, (i know, under 10 yrs by far.) but this > is a more generic question. It has a 68LC040 processor; I need a straight > 68040 for NetBSD... is it possible to nab one of these from someplace and > just put it in? besides any clock speed issues & whatnot, are they all the > same "under the hood" ? or are they all different. I guess this applies to > several other systems I have, since I'm interested in upgrading other things > as well. any info appreciated. thanks! On all 68LC040 Macs you just need to exchange it with an 68040 to get the MathCo. Just check the frequency. But using a 636 for NetBSD isn't a good idea - any 486-PC will give the same or better performance - but while using Mac OS 8 the 63x are just fine machines. Gruss H. P.S.: don't forget the memory update - the 63x Macs can use 36 or 52 MB of Mem, depending on the mobo revision. If you have 1 SIMM slot, add a 32MB module, if there are two slots, use a 16 MB modul in the outhermost and a 32 in the innermost slot. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 07:37:30 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable Message-ID: <199807131023.MAA08982@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> I beleive just about all the Newton Messagepads were done in clear >>cases and they're really not _that_ uncommon. You'll see them for sale > Nope... I don't recall any clear MP's, except maybe a few special ones that > I've forgotten about... The eMate 300 is the only Newton I remember that > had a clear case. And if I think hard, I am beginning to recall there might > have been a few 100's or 110's with clear cases. They may not be uncommon, > but they aren't common either... Much fewer than the so called "rare" Woz > edition Apple IIgs computers. There was a 'special edition' of the Newton 120 in clear case. A friend of mine has one - I'm still looking - there are only a few known in Germany, and they still sell for prices around 800-100 DM (USD 500+). Still on my wishlist. >>every 6 months or so if you read the Newton Classifieds. Most recently, >>I saw a non-working MP 100 go for $100 (my offer was the second highest >>at $40). From what I understand, there were even some Newton's done in >>wooden cases, though I'm not sure if these were operational. Prototypes >>of the eMate were also done in a wide variety of colors. > Never heard of wood ones. Ouch, I got a splinter from my MP... :-) And I > think there may ahve been 3 or 4 colors for the prototype eMates. I think > I've seen two different colors. As for MP100's, $50 is the max they should > be selling for. I saw someone trying to sell one for $300, and it really > doesn't make sense until you see all the extra memory cards, the larger of > which can cost a LOT of money. As fas as I remember these woioden MPs where all mock ups - just a pice of carved wood. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Mon Jul 13 09:18:04 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:12 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131204.OAA25517@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Some Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 07:43:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807131204.OAA25517@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713084302.0091e980@netpath.net> 18 Systems total, never over 25 systems at one time, but this doesn't count systems that belong to customers, etc. (I have a platoon of Compact Macs sitting on my dining room floor as I type, waiting for cleaning and diagnosing.) I guess I am atypical in that I don't have more than 50 systems like most of the other members do on this list. It's not that I don't have a passion for the hobby, but I do have a wife and daughter, and there needs to be room in the house for all three of us. :) Here are the systems I use for everyday use: Mac IIx AMD 233mmx and these are the systems I don't keep online, but use occasionally: Mac SE/30 Mac SE Mac Classic Dell 433p DECpc 433 These are systems that I collect: GRiDCase 1535exp, currently down (HD problem) GRiDCase 3 GRiDCase 3 (Parts) GRiDPad 1912 Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem And of course my two consoles connected via a/v cables to a Magnovox RGB/Composite monitor: Atari Jaguar TurboGrafx 16 Computers I have just sitting around which need a new home: DECpc 433, 12mb, no HD GRiD 286mfp, a the bastard chylde of Tandy/GRiD TI-99/4a Copaq Portable, one of the big'uns. At 02:19 PM 7/13/98 +1, you wrote: > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > >Some > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 08:13:22 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <199807131315.NAA03678@cyber2.servtech.com> At 16:30 11-07-98 -0700, "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >>This is off-topic, so I'd like to know if anyone would like to start a >>short discussion off the list regarding data recovery on crashed hard >>drives? > >Sam, >I've got to disagree on this being off topic. Granted the case you are >talking about is with modern drives, but I'm sure this is something of >interest to many of us on the list. Consider this my request to please >keep the discussion on the list. > >Unfortunalty I can't contribute to the discussion, as I've been meaning to >research this, but haven't had time. I feel Zane is pretty much correct re: being on topic w/r to our older drives. I sure as heck could not afford $1490 for the work that Sam had to pay to have done tho he may have *had* to do it w/r to his job (therefore, cost could be justified/recovered eventually.) Most of us are just plain hobbyists who want to try to preserve our equipment as best we can with little or no resources. I've got several 10+ year-old dead drives I was wondering how to handle especially a physically huge HP 7912 drive (64mb IIRC) that I'd really like to restore (servo error #9, either servo board or head positioner?) Nevertheless, thanks for bringing this up and many of us concerned will be watching for worthwhile suggestions. -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 08:23:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35AA0A45.4D6B29A7@bbtel.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Russ Blakeman writes: > > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > > use only with the HP45849A. > > Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch > display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the > 9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at > University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > > -Frank McConnell The 9123 is essentially a box about 3" tall, 12 or so inches wide and nearly a foot deep, with two over height 3.5" drives mounted in the face. The back has a cable about 2ft long with the 5 pin din and then there's a centronics type connector that's marked HP-IB. Then theres a sticker that says that it's for use only with the HP45849A..... Other than that I have never had any exposure to a unit like this. Got a batch of machines and my new Dell 4066/XE server and these were part of the load. They're in really nice condition too. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 08:25:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? References: <3.0.5.32.19980713084302.0091e980@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AA0AC0.734A1A2@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > (I have a platoon of Compact Macs sitting on my dining room floor as I type, > waiting for cleaning and > diagnosing.) I hear the working in the dining room! Until I get my shop building finished the dining room is the pooter room. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 08:31:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131331.AA25983@world.std.com> < > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Lessee... 2 VT1200 DEC X-terminal 5 Vt320 terminal 1 VT340 1 VT100 1 H19 2 DECMATEIIIs 1 PRO350 Venix 1 PDP-11/23 (ba11s) RT-11 1 PDP-11/23 (BA11va) RT-11 1 PDP-11/73 (ba11n) V7unix, RT-11, RSTS 1 PDT-11/130 RT-11 3 MicroVAX2000 (one VMS, one Ultrix) 8 Vaxserver3100m10e (vvvvv all VMS) 1 VAXstation3100m76 1 MicroVAXII (ba123) 1 MicrovaxII (ba23) 1 Epson PX-8 (CPM) 1 Kaypro 4/84 (CPM) 1 SB180 z180 system (ZCPR) 1 AmproLB (CPM) 3 Visual1050 CP/M 3 1 altair8800 1 Netronics explorer8085 (NS*dos and CP/M) 1 northstar* Horizon (NS*dos, cpm) 1 VECTOR MZ S100 box with computime and other boards of my design 1 CCS 2200 s100 system (CPM) 3 DEC vt180 boards setup to run outside of a v100 (CPM) 1 intel MCS800 8080 multibus development system 1 intel 80/10a multibus board based 8080 system (CPM) 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos 1 PS/2m50z dos 1 dell 386sx/16 minix 1 386sx/25 dos 1 386dx/33 linux 1 486dx2/50 dos/win3.1 1 486dx2/66 dos/win3.1 3 ti99/4a (one with everything, one beige unit, one being hacked) 1 cosmac elf (article version, Quest board) 1 6800 D1 evaluation board 1 National Semi SC/MP (8a500 chip) 1 national Semi SC/MP basic (8073) 1 IMSAI IMP48 (8035 control apps board ) 1 TK80A 8080 SBC 1 Intersil 6100 sampler board 1 Technico superstarter board (ti9900) 1 ADVICE MicroVAXII archecture ICE 1 NEC7806 demo board (tiny basic) 3 8085 SBCs made out of Vt100 printer buffer cards Something like 10 terminals and ~60 systems (most operational) Allison From blindpete at stratos.net Sun Jul 12 22:37:22 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Wang Thang (Forward From blindpete@stratos.net) Message-ID: <199807131344.GAA02866@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi Dug Sory I havent been able to reply sooner, I got burried under in email, like a thousand messages. It takes me a while to go threw. Yah the power failure is a problem, I would write the note and save it to disk on a flopy, so I would have lots of notes to go threw. I didn't loose any data this way, but am not sure what the power failure did to the system files. It always booted in to the wordprosessor so I don't think power outage effected the software. It took a few days of thinking to figure out how to repair the broken pin on the CPU, since I couldn't solder something that small. I didn't think it would work, and was trying to find a new CPU for it, well, it worked so I was spaired that. Also, I got a new piece of equiptment, it's a little box about five inches square and about one and some inches thick. It has a cable whith a DB 9 feemale conecter on the end of it. It's a Double talk synthasiser, Thought I'de sneek that in on you. I have been bissy whith configuring software on a notebook computer to make it talk. You can hear what it sounds like if you have a wave player, there are some wave files and other info about the doubletalk at: www.rcsys.com The cool thing about the doubletalk is the text to speech conversion is done by the doubletalk itself, so it doesn't use the computer's CPU to do that. Some of the text to speech software takes about 300K of conventional memory, this is a painfully slow way to use synthasisers whith computers. Another part of making the computer talk iss a screen reader program, this is what I was configuring , or trying to configure. What the screen reader does is it sends what is on the screen to the synthasiser to be spoken. The screenreader also does more things, but that is the basic thing it does. If you want to experiment whith a screen reader and don't have a synthasiser, I found one that uses the computer speaker to speek threw, I like this one because it installs itself and is easy to use, it's called seekline screen reader. Seekline has some drawbacks mainly the conventional memory usage mentioned abuv, another problem is seekline doesn't recognise non ascii characters on the screen, I don't know what these are since I can't see them. This is a newsence when you are in some setup programs, because when seekline sais press nonascii to exit, it is unknown what key to press. Aside from that seekline is a great little program. If you wnat to try it out it lives at: http://world.std.com/~speechfb The downloadable Seekline screen reader is shareware, one file about a meg or more called sl.exe works in dos. I have been trying to get people to try some of the screenreaders to get some feed back on what they think, I am not doing a servay or any thing like that, I am just curious about what people think. So if you have some extra time let me know what you think., I just thought of some thing, maybe you could install it on the Wang computer, it just might talk threw the computer speeker. I didn't know about seekline when I had the wang but if it worked in it I would have kept the wang. Befor you install seekline run the installation on a computer whith a monotor, so you can see what the menu choises are, seekline doesn't modify config.sys or autoexec.bat what seekline does is it writes a start.bat file in the seekline directory it writes to the hard drive. I forgot the 5.25 flopy problem, oh well, it was just a thought. Well, write me soon! Pete Persuric Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From blindpete at stratos.net Sun Jul 12 22:37:28 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Hi I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think there was a windows whith out a version number. The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it worked whith speech. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 09:04:51 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering References: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AA1402.87223A5A@bbtel.com> Dos 1.25 is the earliest version for general distributuion, previous versions were too buggy, same as DOS 2.0, the 2.11 was the distribution standard when double sided drives came out. blindpete@stratos.net wrote: > Hi > > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest > versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think > there was a windows whith out a version number. > The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, > it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it > worked whith speech. > > Pete > > Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:04:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> I have 8 CPUs: A pentium-75 An Apple //c A PS/2 Model 70 A Packard Bell 486SX An Amiga 2000 A Macintosh Portable An Apple ][+ A brother word processor which I consider a computer What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... >Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem >At 02:19 PM 7/13/98 +1, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? >> >>Some >> >>Gruss >>H. >> >>-- >>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >>HRK >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 09:05:56 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <199807131344.GAA02881@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713100556.009555a0@netpath.net> I have Windows 1.03 here, also DOS 1.25, but I am sure there were versions of DOS before that. 1.03 Windows runs pretty good on 512k XT, with one 720k floppy, with about 200k left over for data and stuff. Has all the common apps: Notepad, Write, Terminal, etc. As for the speech part, it just depends on the requirements of the speech program I would imagine. At 08:37 AM 7/13/98 +500, you wrote: > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >there was a windows whith out a version number. >The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >worked whith speech. > > Pete > >Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:12:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <19980713141232.20167.qmail@hotmail.com> The earliest version of Microsoft Windows was 1.0, which had a certain resemblance to the DOS Shell. There were very few programs for Windows 1.0 and 2.0, and programs written under Windows 3.1 won't run on earlier version, neither will Windows 3.1 run older software. 3.0 can run 2.0 programs. Microsoft bought QDOS (Quick & Dirty Operating System) in Beta form from Seattle Computer, Ltd. the night before they had to give IBM an operating system for the upcoming PC, for $50,000. The first DOS was 1.0, which had no support for hard disks as its greatest flaw. 2.0 had hard drive support. In general, most modern programs require DOS 3.1 or higher due to some functions DOS provides. I'm not too familiar with all of the exact revision history. Is there a page anywhere with this info? > Hi > > I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. > The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >there was a windows whith out a version number. >The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. > I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >worked whith speech. > > Pete > >Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 09:13:51 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980713101351.00922100@netpath.net> At 07:04 AM 7/13/98 PDT, you wrote: >What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... >>Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem Well, I can't tell you who made it, but it's a little tower with two 5.25" drives mounted vertically, and requires a dongle on one of the joystick ports to work. I haven't even cranked it up yet to compare the performance to the C 15xx series drives. I think the model number is MSD-2. The MSD-1 was a single drive unit. I have all the docs and disks that came with it, so when I ever do get it cranked up, I'll post the specifics. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Jul 13 09:18:53 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: >> I have Windows 1.03 here, also DOS 1.25, but I am sure there were versions >> of DOS before that. didn't IBM release a version of DOS before that? Similarly with IBM DOS 2.0 - I'm sure that was generally available (I don't remember the original post specifically mentioning MS-DOS) cheers Jules > From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Jul 13 10:22:59 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online text or PDF copy. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:43 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ Blakeman To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: Classic computers message group X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 13 10:01:18 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: <199807130539.WAA08206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980713100118.2e97b4d0@intellistar.net> At 10:39 PM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >Russ Blakeman writes: >> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two >> 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector >> and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for >> use only with the HP45849A. > >Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch >display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the >9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at >University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > >-Frank McConnell Yeap, they're for the TS II (Touch Screen II). That's the only machine that they'll work on. The 9123 is exactly the same as a 9122 except it doesn't have a power supply. The DIN plug is to supply power to the drives. BUT you can add an external power supply and then you can use them just like regular HP 9122 drives. BTW ******BIG WARNING****** I have found that the double sided drives like those used in the 9122, 9122, 9133, etc are prone to hanging up and not raising the discs completely when you try to eject a disc. If you force the disc out or insert a disc, you will almost certainly rip the top head off the drive. The problem is caused by the grease that was used on the drive machanism, it gets dry and gummy with age and binds the mechanism. When you use those drives, watch and be certain that the drive opens completely before removing or inserting a disk. Joe > From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 11:29:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> <3.0.1.16.19980713100118.2e97b4d0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35AA35D5.A0368A41@bbtel.com> So does anyone have an interest in these since Joe has figured out what they are? The eject mechanism on them is in good shape, no gummy grease. I know the grease he's talking about as I've seen it on Mac drives eject motor and arm. Joe wrote: > At 10:39 PM 7/12/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Russ Blakeman writes: > >> I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > >> 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > >> and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > >> use only with the HP45849A. > > > >Hmm, is that the p/n for a Touchscreen II aka HP150 with 12-inch > >display? I know those have the 5-pin DIN connector inside and the > >9123 would be contemporary, can't remember if the ones we had at > >University of Maryland hooked up that way or not though. > > > >-Frank McConnell > > Yeap, they're for the TS II (Touch Screen II). That's the only machine > that they'll work on. The 9123 is exactly the same as a 9122 except it > doesn't have a power supply. The DIN plug is to supply power to the drives. > BUT you can add an external power supply and then you can use them just > like regular HP 9122 drives. > > BTW ******BIG WARNING****** I have found that the double sided > drives like those used in the 9122, 9122, 9133, etc are prone to hanging up > and not raising the discs completely when you try to eject a disc. If you > force the disc out or insert a disc, you will almost certainly rip the top > head off the drive. The problem is caused by the grease that was used on > the drive machanism, it gets dry and gummy with age and binds the > mechanism. When you use those drives, watch and be certain that the drive > opens completely before removing or inserting a disk. > > Joe > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 11:32:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion on use for a couch :-) Marty wrote: > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > Marty > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > text or PDF copy. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > 20:07:43 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: Classic computers message group > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 11:35:36 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: LCD repair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13371360252.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> His panel is not going bad - The Mac Powerbook 170 I;ve got does this when first powered on, then clears the screen - I think it's a video ram test. ------- From wanderer at bos.nl Mon Jul 13 14:22:44 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Not so many, others do have far much more than I have. My little collection: PDP 11/24 with 2 RL02's, running RSX-11M 4.0, Ultrix-11 PDP 11/34a with 3 RL01's running RSX-11M 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 PDT 11/150 running RT-11 Mac powerbook 170 HP model G40 VT100, VT520 terminal Teletype ASR33 Sun Sparc5 (cannot be declared yet as 'classic') Sun IPX (ditto) Edward From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 12:39:30 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but never anything else. > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos Is that OS actually useful for something? > 1 dell 386sx/16 minix ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 12:49:52 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA48C0.62C6@gamewood.net> Max Eskin wrote: > > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos > There was a 'D2' --- roughly equivelent to an "AT" (286) Chuck From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 12:51:06 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA490A.60C3@gamewood.net> Max Eskin wrote: > > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos And they had a couple models of 'laptops' also. Chuck From red at bears.org Mon Jul 13 12:57:14 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> Message-ID: I guess now it's my turn.. Amiga 500 (got two of those), 3000 Apollo DN4000 & DN5500 Apple ][+, //c, //gs Atari 800 Commodore VIC-20, 128, 128D Compaq Deskpro 286 Convergent Technologies NGEN systems in 186, 286, and 386 flavours IBM PCjr (I STILL can't get over what an utter piece of crap it is) Macintosh 128k, Plus, SE/30 (two of those, too), IIsi NeXTcube; NeXTstation SGI Indy (not even close to being classic) TI 99/4A TRS-80 Models III and 4P Plus the obligatory 486 (got one of the first boards, it's fairly close to being classic itself) and pentium systems, as well as the odd one or two I've forgotten. Apocrypha... back when SGI first announced the Indy in 1993 or 1994, they ran a contest to give away five machines: Why you wanted an Indy, in 25 words or less. My entry won 7th place. Oh well, I got one anyway, even though it took me an extra five years. (: ok r. From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Jul 13 13:16:57 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed Message-ID: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> Found an easy path to the info you need: 1. Access www.dell.com 2. Click on the SUPPORT wrench at the top of the home page. 3. Click on TROUBLESHOOT YOUR DELL SYSTEM 4. Now you will be prompted to HELP US IDENTIFY YOUR SYSTEM OR SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL. Under SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL click on the last choice, All Other Product Lines. 5. Under All Other Product Lines, click on 80486. 6. Now you will see 80486 highlighted in black on the left of the screen. On the right side click on the second choice from the top which is 40XX/XE and you will finally be there. The address is http://www.dell.com/support/tech/dta/4000XE/index.htm By the way, the Dell 4066/XE is a great server, very reliable and well built from my experience. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/13/98 1:09 PM Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion on use for a couch :-) Marty wrote: > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > Marty > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > text or PDF copy. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > 20:07:43 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: Classic computers message group > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul13.130904.1767.50978; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:09:04 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA24765; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:06:46 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA39788 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.crumaxmagnetics.com [206.65.217.166]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA19027 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand124.blue.net [206.65.221.124]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02327 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ Blakeman To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From buck_c at polygon.com Mon Jul 13 13:20:12 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? References: Message-ID: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> Lets see... MicroVAX 3600 running VMS (for the while) MicroVAX 3600 running NetBSD - has MicroTerm 200 and Wyse 50 terminals hooked up to it. MicroVAX II running NetBSD 3 MicroVAX II's without cases Cyrix PR-166/MMX PC running (cussword) Intel 486DX66 also running (cussword) Macintosh Plus (not working) Hopefully soon, I'll be putting two of the naked MV2's into cases, and perhaps getting a VAXstation 2000 to go along with the pile. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Jul 13 13:29:32 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might as well chime in also: Commodore: C64 (6 of these) C64C B128 C128 (3 of these) VIC-20 (8 of these) C128D (3 of these) Plus/4 (4 of these) C16 SX-64 Executive (2 of these) Amiga 1000 (2 of these) Amiga 500 Amiga 3000 Apple: Apple ][+ (2 of these) Apple //c Apple ][gs Macintosh 512k (2 of these) Macintosh FatMac Macintosh SE Macintosh SE/30 Macintosh IIsi (2 of these) Macintosh Plus (2 of these) Macintosh IIcx Macintosh IIfx (2 of these) Macintosh Centris 610 Atari: Atari 400 (3 of these) Atari 800 Atari 600XL (2 of these) Atari 800XL Atari 2600 (6 of these) Osborne: Osborne OCC1 (3 of these) Tandy/Radio Shack: TRS-80 Model 4 TRS-80 Model 12 TRS-80 Color Computer TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (2 of these) Tandy Color Computer 3 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Tandy Model 102 Portable Texas Instruments: TI 99/4A (3 of these) Magnavox: Odyssey 100 Odyssey 300 Odyssey 3000 Odyssey 4000 Odyssey 2 (3 of these) Mattel: Aquarius Digital Equipment: Gigi Timex/Sinclair: Sinclair ZX80 (my first computer) Sinclair ZX81 (2 of these) Timex/Sinclair 1000 (2 of these) Timex/Sincliar 1500 Fairchild: Fairchild Video Entertainment System Sharp: PC-1500 Pocket Computer Plus loads of peripherals (especially commodore) and software and carts and various other obscure computing devices. I've got room for more if anyone wants to trade. :) Cheers, Dan From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 13:42:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <35AA54FE.DAB064C2@bbtel.com> Aha! I didn't think of using the troubleshooting since I'm not looking at repairing it, yet. Thanks. Marty wrote: > Found an easy path to the info you need: > > 1. Access www.dell.com > 2. Click on the SUPPORT wrench at the top of the home page. > 3. Click on TROUBLESHOOT YOUR DELL SYSTEM > 4. Now you will be prompted to HELP US IDENTIFY YOUR SYSTEM > OR SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL. Under SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL > click on the last choice, All Other Product Lines. > 5. Under All Other Product Lines, click on 80486. > 6. Now you will see 80486 highlighted in black on the left of the > screen. On the right side click on the second choice from the top > which is 40XX/XE and you will finally be there. > > The address is http://www.dell.com/support/tech/dta/4000XE/index.htm > By the way, the Dell 4066/XE is a great server, very reliable and well > built from my experience. > > Marty > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > Date: 7/13/98 1:09 PM > > Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a > > little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion > > on use for a couch :-) > > Marty wrote: > > > At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you > > will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the > > method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find > > troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc. > > > > Marty > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > > _________________________________ > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > > Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet > > Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM > > > > Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA > > slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!.... > > > > Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay > > for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that > > work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online > > text or PDF copy. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Russ Blakeman > > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > > ICQ UIN #1714857 > > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > > Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > > id AA-1998Jul11.231024.1767.50787; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:10:24 -0400 > > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > > by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > > id UAA09277; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:49 -0700 > > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > > > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > > id UAA68704 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 > > 20:07:43 -0700 > > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) > > > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > > id UAA16711 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:07:36 > > > > > -0700 > > Received: from bbtel.com (brand241.blue.net [206.65.221.241]) > > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14717 > > for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:08:27 -0500 (CDT) > > Message-Id: <35A8287B.AC5593F9@bbtel.com> > > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:07:39 -0500 > > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > > Precedence: bulk > > From: Russ Blakeman > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > > > Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-To: Classic computers message group > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Jul13.130904.1767.50978; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:09:04 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id KAA24765; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:06:46 -0700 > Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id JAA39788 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 > 09:32:00 -0700 > Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.crumaxmagnetics.com [206.65.217.166]) > by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id JAA19027 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:00 > > -0700 > Received: from bbtel.com (brand124.blue.net [206.65.221.124]) > by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02327 > for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:51 -0500 (CDT) > Message-Id: <35AA368A.5A6CECC3@bbtel.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:32:11 -0500 > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed > References: <1998Jul13.112136.1767.118264@smtp.itgonline.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 13:43:17 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <19980713173931.3432.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35AA5545.D8B4073A@bbtel.com> http://www.primenet.com/~fwagner/le/leading_edge.html is the link to the unofficial support page since LE is now the Dead Edge. Max Eskin wrote: > Was there anything besides a 'D' model? I've seen plenty of D s but > never anything else. > > 1 Leading Edge model D XT dos > > Is that OS actually useful for something? > > 1 dell 386sx/16 minix > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 13 15:58:50 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <6240@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807131903.OAA25083@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 06:32 AM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: Okay, here's what's in my "Garage" 6800/6809: 2 SwTPc 6800's (neither of which works) American Automation AA-570 Development system (6802 based) SwTPc S/09 (never fired up) SSB Chieftain 9512 (in SwTPc cabinet) CoCo III, With FDD ExorBUS KLUDGE, containing various ExorBUS compatible hardware. Commodore: VIC-20 with two 1541's and a 80-column display (broke) C-64 also with two 1541's and 80 col. C-128 with 1571 FDD (keyboard trashed) 68000: AT&T Unix PC-7300, 40Mb HD, 1Mb RAM (it's in pieces, working on an upgrade) NCR 1600 series Tower, running Unix SVR3 Other: H-89 with CP/M (also broke) Intellivision II w/computer and Music attachments (modulator broke) Mattel Aquarius (still in the box) AT least 5 Wyse Wy-50 terminals, in various states of disrepair FLUKE 1720A IEEE instrument controller (broke, waiting for prints) HP 9816 instrument controller, with external IEEE HDD/FDD. I also have an Apple ][+ and a //c, but they really don't belong to me. I'm just trying to get them into working order. I also have a array of PeeCee compatibles, and a MAC, none of which qualify for discussion here. Not alot, but I don't have a whole lot of space. Writing list was a kinda depressing excercise. Most of the good stuff's *broke* in one way shape or form. My main interest is 680x and 68000's. Jeff >I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > > Michael Sheflin > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Jul 13 13:53:53 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807131906.PAA16865@charity.harvard.net> I guess I'll have a go... Following is a list of the machines that my SO and I have collected: A bunch of PDP 11 hardware (too much for me to catalog completely) 2 NeXTStation Color Turbo 1 NeXT Cube 1 Sun 386 box 1 Pentium box (running OS/2 of course) 1 Macintosh 512K 1 Macintosh IIci 1 Atari 400 2 Atari 800xl (one is parts) w/1050, 1010, 1027 printer 4 Commodore 64 (one is non-functional) w/Vic 1541, 2 Commodore 1542, and CN2 1 Commodore 128 (not working, I'm trying to repair it) 1 Timex/Sinclair 1000 1 Apple //e 1 Apple ][+ Tony Dellett From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 14:04:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Anyone do PA-RISC? (Maybe off topic...) Message-ID: <13371387344.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> NS how old this box is, but it looks about as old as my uVax3100s... Customer has an PH-UX machine, HP 715/100, and it's playing paperweight. Powers on, makes hard-disk noises when the boot switch is pressed, but doesn't talk to the console. When you push the power-off button, it makes more noise and shuts off. Something's working, but I have no console. Any ideas? This happened after someone downed it the wrong way. As I have little experience with HPs, I thought it appropriate to ask a higher authority :) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Anyone do PA-RISC? (Maybe off topic...) In-Reply-To: <13371387344.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13371388473.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> About the typo in the previous message: PH-UX was ENTIRELY UNINTENTIONAL, but So True... :) I just saw it. ------- From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:26 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: RK07and RL0x pre-checkout Message-ID: I have not yet found an operating manual for the RK07's in the group of stuff I got. I want to check them out and think I recall that they can be powered up and maybe heads loaded while not attached to the host. True? If so, anything I should know? What to look for if anything not correct? Also, the previous owner left packs *in* two of the drives :( . One probably is an all-important boot disk for the 1/34A as he told me he had booted it up the day before I picked them up. Well, I'm not too happy with this as there may be a risk that the disk got damaged during moving and transport. I can take the black sheet metal cover off the drives and check that the heads are retracted. How do I get the disk out as the disk cover seems to be locked? Will powering up and a certain keypress unlock the disk cover without the heads moving onto the platter? I'll need to do the same to the RL01's and RL02's to sort through them as to functionality. Thanks yet again for the help. Regards, Chris -- -- From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:10:38 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module Message-ID: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad board which I want to identify. An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped from this system. From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:11:57 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: M9312 Boot ROMS Message-ID: I have been taking inventory of the boot ROMS on the M9312 modules in several of the PDP-11's in the great haul. In the pile of documents there is an older manual for the 9312 (1978 copyright, purple/maroon cover.) Fine. I was able to determine what's what re this subject and their respective boot devices (RL01, RK07, etc.) However, I need help identifying this one found in my 11/34A: 767A9. Need the charts/boot device type for this one which show the same type data as I see in my older 9312 manual. Also, in the 11/24 I found a different E20 ROM (the console/diagnostic ROM). Its number is 774F1. The number found on all the other 9312 E20 ROMS is 248F1. Now, is this 774F1 specific to the 11/24 only? Or, is it specific to any Unibus -11/xx which has no programmers console attached to the front of the machine (the /24 just has a few switches on the front panel)? The 11/34A I'm keeping and the other two 11/34x BA11's either have, or have evidence of once having, a programmer's console attached which could be a hint that the 248F1 is simply the E20 ROM just for 11/34x machines w/prgmrs console. Thanks for helping me sort out this detail. BTW, that URL Kees Stravers posted here per my query has the most VAX 11/730 info I have found yet. It has some great info to help me get going on my uVAX II which also came to me in that haul. Again: http://vaxarchive.ml.org . Thanks Kees. I'm still looking for more 11/730 info everybody (so is Kees). Thanks for the help. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Jul 13 14:12:17 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should be a mixture of RT and RSX. There's a boot pack labeled for the 11/24 but it will be a surprise as to which OS boots. I think there's an RK07 pack for the 11/34A and I understand from the previous owner that RSX had been the OS running on it. If there's some version dependancy involved, the RSX boot disk pack is probably 4.x and if the 11/24 pack is RT, it is *possibly* v3.x. There's an even bigger batch of 9-track tapes. ~75 or so hangin' on the tape rack. But, I think most of those could be backup tapes or development files from Moog Hydropoint machine tools (Moog made computer controlled machine tools) according to what I see in the rather cryptic contents of the labels. I gotta get the rack w/TS03 and TS11 subsystem lashed up to the 11/24 or 11/34A (whichever I get running first) to check them out. Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? Thanks again, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jul 13 13:46:19 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question In-Reply-To: <199807130702.AAA10808@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: All, I have 3 count'em 3 (classic) systems: Mac Plus, Dec Rainbow 100A, NeXT Computer. I use one home non-classic and one office non-classic (both Mac PB3400) as well. And I am *not* going to be jealous of you guys with warehouses full of systems....... :-) - Mark From buck_c at polygon.com Mon Jul 13 14:25:59 1998 From: buck_c at polygon.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <35AA5F47.520780C3@polygon.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad > board which I want to identify. > > An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge > pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped > from this system. > > >From what I see at the Emulex website Emulex is only involved w/networking > stuff. There was no C3987 mentioned anywhere. That very well could be a SCSI controller. Emulex is only into networking NOW, as they got sued several years ago by DEC for patent infrigment (lost my job because of that suit). They used to do SCSI controllers, network, communication, terminal servers, you name it. It could be a 50-port serial card. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of Emulex parts anymore. -- J. Buck Caldwell Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142 PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696 St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682 From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 14:33:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807131933.AA03474@world.std.com> MAX writes: < > Is that OS actually useful for something? It's unix... depending on who you ask yes or no. ;) Compared to DOS it's better, it's a real multiprocessing OS. As implmented for 386 and larger it lacks VM making some BIG unix apps like Xwindows unlikely but for text apps it screams. There is a version called minix-vm and from what I've hears runs well. MINIX plug, it's value is, sources are on line and it runs on XTs and PS/2s and the whole install with sorces fits in something like 40mb. It's limits are no VM, support for COM1/2 only and the book/CDrom cost about 70$. It is available on the net, install kits and sources. I installed it on the Dell and it was textbook easy (compared to dos!) and considering the machine is a 386sx/16 it's really quite fast. Allison From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Jul 13 16:45:03 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <6361@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807131949.OAA25264@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 02:25 PM 7/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: > >> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >> board which I want to identify. >> >> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >> from this system. >> >> >From what I see at the Emulex website Emulex is only involved w/networking >> stuff. There was no C3987 mentioned anywhere. > >That very well could be a SCSI controller. Emulex is only into networking NOW, as they got sued >several years ago by DEC for patent infrigment (lost my job because of that suit). They used to do >SCSI controllers, network, communication, terminal servers, you name it. It could be a 50-port >serial card. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of Emulex parts anymore. Serves 'em $#%%^@& right. Emulex's support was (is) of the most suckful sort. I would never recommend any of their products to anybody (forget about getting any kind of support or end-of-life info from these #&@*^$* people). They used to make decent PeeCee video boards. Ohhhh, damn-- don't get me started . . . . Jeff From rax at warbaby.com Mon Jul 13 16:01:01 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980713101351.00922100@netpath.net> References: <19980713140445.27983.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Not as many as you big iron guys, nothing terribly exotic - just a bunch of early home computers: 3 - Apple ][ 2 - Apple IIgs 1 - Mac Portable 2 - Mac 512 1 - Kaypro 1 - Osborne Executive 1 - IBM PC XT 3 - TI 99 2 - Atari 400 1 - Atari 800 1 - TRS80 1 - Coleco Adam 3 - Commodore PET 4 - Commodore Plus 4 4 - Commodore VIC20 75 - C-64 (Go ahead, laugh now - but just you wait til I get them hooked up in parallel and have the worlds first C-64 supercomputer...) Many boxes of peripheral junk - tape drives, modems, printers, etc. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 14:57:56 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <19980713195756.8114.qmail@hotmail.com> Are you sure about that first one? I tried to install it on a PS/2 Model 70 and it didn't recognize the hard drive. In general, i've found Minix to be simply awful with recognizing hard drives. >MINIX plug, it's value is, sources are on line and it runs on XTs and >PS/2s and the whole install with sorces fits in something like 40mb. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 13 14:10:40 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: G40 ? Re: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA5E84.5B59@bos.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980713141040.5a8f0732@intellistar.net> At 07:22 PM 7/13/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > >Not so many, others do have far much more than I have. > >My little collection: > >PDP 11/24 with 2 RL02's, running RSX-11M 4.0, Ultrix-11 >PDP 11/34a with 3 RL01's running RSX-11M 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 >PDT 11/150 running RT-11 >Mac powerbook 170 >HP model G40 What's a G40? Never heard of one. Joe From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Jul 13 15:20:14 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: System V 3.2 manuals Message-ID: <199807132020.NAA19014@goodnet.com> I have several System V 3.2 manuals (not going to list all the titles here but suffice it to say a 6" high stack). They are still in the shrinkwrap. Free to good home if you pay shipping or pick up in Phoenix, AZ - I don't have any machines that run that, nor do I intend to.... -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * emusic * OO * Khoros * sci fi * 808 State * VRML * Gravis Ultrasound * From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Jul 13 15:40:50 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I bought and need one badly :) Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/5931803f/attachment.bin From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 16:02:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> < Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the < PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should b < a mixture of RT and RSX. Yes, but there are tools to got from rt to rsx, maybe the other way as well. < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? Yes. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 16:02:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:13 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807132102.AA22259@world.std.com> Howmnay: I have to edit my list as I'd forgotten the TRS80 16k/LII and the COCO3/4. Too many! Allison From cad at gamewood.net Mon Jul 13 16:12:07 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: EISA question References: <199807132102.AA22259@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35AA7827.3302@gamewood.net> Allison J Parent wrote: > > Howmnay: > > I have to edit my list as I'd forgotten the TRS80 16k/LII and the COCO3/4. > > Too many! > > Allison Wheredidyougeta 4 ?? Chuck From icyblackhand at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:39:29 1998 From: icyblackhand at hotmail.com (Michael Sheflin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980713213929.24327.qmail@hotmail.com> What is a fatMac??? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 13 17:08:01 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 13:20) References: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> Message-ID: <9807132308.ZM6970@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and I always find it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you count half a dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two keyboards and one PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the orignal case or PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other boards, but only a few cabinets. This is roughly what's running/runnable: Acorn Archimedes A440, serial no 614 + Arm3 processor a a lot of extras Acorn Archimedes A310, serial no 2. BBC Microcomputer Model B (about 2.5 of these) BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus Torch Z80 Card x 2 Acorn Z80 Acorn 6502 Acorn Electron Acorn Atom Apple ][+ Apple //e Apple Mac Plus x 2 Sharp MZ80K Atari MegaST Exidy Sorcerer Commodore PET 2001-8K Commodore 128 (US version) Commodore VIC-20 Amiga 500 (well, half of one, anyway) homebrew Z8 SBC Sinclair ZX81 Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum 48K Sinclair QL (plus a dead one) Sparcstation 1+ Silicon Graphics Indy R4600SC XT-compatible AT-compatible 486SX-25 486DX2-66 386sx-20 portable 286 Compaq LTE 11/23 x 2 11/03 x 2 11/34 11/24 (only the board set, though) 11/73 x 2 ?PDP-11/83 microVax II uMicro 2000 (a 68000 system and a lot of spare boards) Sage II (another 68000) Cambridge Z88 Psion Organiser AgendA and, of course, a whole lot of peripherals. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 12:40:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 12, 98 08:20:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/2891d927/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 12:48:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts In-Reply-To: <35A985D1.4E54C27F@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 12, 98 10:58:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1277 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/22e99ff6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 13:04:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807131315.NAA03678@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 09:13:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980713/869e347f/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 18:13:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: EISA question Message-ID: <199807132313.AA12558@world.std.com> < Are you sure about that first one? I tried to install it on a PS/2 Model < 70 and it didn't recognize the hard drive. In general, i've found Minix < to be simply awful with recognizing hard drives. I got it up and running on a PS/2m50z with a 20mb mfm drive. Minix is not awful with recognizing hard drives, it doesn't claim to support all of them. If you want you can put dos on the m70 and then install the version ported to load and run as under dos as a virtual disk. That works on everything that is running dos. While not fancy it's enough to play with and to keep it small (its a test version) the sources are not on it though they can be copied easily enough. Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Jul 13 19:32:17 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 05:02:37 pm Message-ID: <199807140032.UAA16076@shell.monmouth.com> > > > < Are file formats different between RSX-11M and RT-11? If I get one of the > < PDPs up and running I need to sort out the 40-50 disk packs that should b > < a mixture of RT and RSX. > > Yes, but there are tools to got from rt to rsx, maybe the other way as > well. > > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? > > Yes. > > Allison > > I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:40:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: RK07and RL0x pre-checkout In-Reply-To: from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 03:10:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/c394538c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:46:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 13, 98 04:40:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/2e117f99/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:47:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "Rax" at Jul 13, 98 01:01:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 245 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/86892219/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:48:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807132102.AA22013@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 05:02:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/ec959297/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 19:00:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 13, 98 01:57:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/4175aff8/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 19:49:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: <199807132041.QAA27397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I >bought and need one badly :) I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe that has most of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 19:49:28 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980714004929.19462.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I think that the default lack of floppy drive was a mistake, as was the lack of RAM. I'm not sure what year it is, but I believe 640K was standard by then. Also, I have the Getting Started manual for the PCjr. It's supposed to be a technical reference with specs, and details on how to prepare it for shipping (like in the IBM PC manual of the same name), but instead it has childish junk on how to use cursor keys (it has a little cartridge game called the keyboard adventure, with a little guy that can move around). Techinicians reeely don't like that. >Apart from the IR keyboard, which was a mistake ;-), it's basically a PC >without the DMA chip, but with better-than-CGA graphics. What's wrong >with it? > >In some ways the lack of a DMA chip is a good thing. There are the right >signals on the expansion bus to add one, with the result that an >expansion module can take over the bus. The PC bus doesn't allow that. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 13 19:51:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a > number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, > document everything, and write a repair manual.... I would love to help with this effort as I'm very good with my hands and the whole point of starting this thread was to guage the practicality of home hard drive repair, but currently I wouldn't have the time to embark on such an endeavor, although at some point I will. I hope that whatever tricks I'm able to pioneer with respect to hard drive repair will be passed on in FAQs. I've already noted the discussions on building a clean box and at some point will be creating one. QUESTION: Is there a way to determine just how clean such a clean box is after its built? Is there some meter that can be hooked-up to the exhaust opening that will give you a particulate count? My Panasonic vacuum cleaner has such a detector that triggers a dual-color LED on the front panel: it lights red if it detects dirt particles passing through the hose and green if the particle count is below some threshold. > Yep, this is an interesting thread for me... Me too! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 13 19:56:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > >bought and need one badly :) > > I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe that has most > of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. Hasn't anybody heard of bookmarks? :-) http://nic.funet.fi/pub/cbm/index.html -- Doug From KFergason at aol.com Mon Jul 13 19:57:02 1998 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <483b86b8.35aaacdf@aol.com> The MSD drives were perhaps the first 1541 clones, though I am not positive of that. They were not complete compatible, so copy protected software probably would not work. I didn't realize they required a dongle. Hmm, how many computers. HP Pentium 300. Sparc LX 486/33 clone SWTPC 6800 systems (2) RCA Cosmac VIP (3) Commodore C128 (2) Commodore C128D Commodore 64 (a dozen or so) Commodore +4 (2) Commodore SuperPet Commodore Vic 20 Timex Sinclair 1000 Atari 400 (2) Atari 800 Atari 600xl Atari 800xl Atari 1040ST Atari 2600 Apple 2e Apple 2c Apple 2gs Macintosh + Macintosh 512 TRS80 Model 3 (2) TRS80 Model 4 TRS80 Model 4p Tandy Coco 2 Tandy Coco 3 TI 99/4a (3) Most work. Kelly In a message dated 7/13/98 9:16:24 AM Central Daylight Time, higginbo@netpath.net writes: > >What's a dual floppy unit? Never seen one... > >>Commodore 64c, dual floppy unit, 1200baud modem > > Well, I can't tell you who made it, but it's a little tower with two 5.25" > drives mounted vertically, and requires a dongle on one of the joystick > ports to work. I haven't even cranked it up yet to compare the performance > to the C 15xx series drives. I think the model number is MSD-2. The MSD-1 > was a single drive unit. > > I have all the docs and disks that came with it, so when I ever do get it > cranked up, I'll post the specifics. > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 20:07:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9807132308.ZM6970@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> References: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 13:20) Message-ID: >Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and I always find >it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you count half a >dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two keyboards and one >PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the orignal case or >PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other boards, but only >a few cabinets. Well, just tell 'em what I do. I've got about 70 computers (See the web page if you want the list, I'm not typing them all in :^) ), not counting duplicates/spares. However, I do count such things as a "Beige Mac Plus" and a "Platinum Mac Plus" separatly, despite the fact the only real difference is the colour of the case (well, in this case the keyboards also). Still I think the only systems that fall into that catagory are the Mac Plus, TI-99/4a, and A1200(HD). Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For example I've got a Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of thing, basically a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From gene at ehrich.com Mon Jul 13 20:18:34 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z In-Reply-To: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Message-ID: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 It came with only one hard drive. 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. Gene ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 20:19:36 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980713211802.00687ba4@netpath.net> What's even neater is the fact that the dongle is nothing more than a carved block of wood hollowed out. Inside buried in epoxy, is one diode connected to two pins of the joystick port. Definitely cool. :) At 08:57 PM 7/13/98 EDT, KFergason@aol.com wrote: > >The MSD drives were perhaps the first 1541 clones, though I am not positive of >that. >They were not complete compatible, so copy protected software probably would >not work. > >I didn't realize they required a dongle. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From gene at ehrich.com Mon Jul 13 20:21:18 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 In-Reply-To: <35A7FE12.3BD1BA67@interserv.com> Message-ID: <199807140118.SAA17181@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat like an Apple II. Thanx ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:25:02 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual References: Message-ID: <35AAB36E.E494EE4A@bbtel.com> ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > bought and need one badly :) > > I beleive the commodore schematics are on an ftp site somewhere > (ftp.funet.fi????). I have the C128 service manual but it's only the > schematics and parts lists and doesn't contain any step-by-step > diagnostics, alas. > > > > > Tony > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:28:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Hey HP experts and enthusiasts References: Message-ID: <35AAB458.9BF5C7AC@bbtel.com> Some of what you wrote I understand especially IEEE 488, which I knew to be HP-IB after working with HP 1000's and support equipment for testing air launched cruise missiles. The specific HP model stuff is greek to me and I haven't opened them (and probably won't) as I have no equipment to test them. Someone has expressed an interest in the 2 units so we'll see how that goes. Appreciate the information, helps greatly as well as backsup the previous info I was sent. Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I have two box type units labeled as an HP9123D that appear to have two > > 3.5" type removable (floppy?) drives in each, with an HPIB bus connector > > and a cable with a 5 pin DIN on the end. It also states that it's for > > use only with the HP45849A. They're both complete and like new but I > > have no equipment to test them with. I know HP stuff is expensive even > > when used and these aren't all that old by their looks and styling so > > they should make some HP owner very happy. I have no use for them but > > yet I would hate to dismantle them or dump them. > > > > Anyone know what these are exactly and would anyone be interested in the > > wo of them, maybe a trade or something? > > This is the floppy drive for the HP150-II (aka Touchscreen II) machine. > > Inside there's a controller board containing (I believe) a 6809 > processor, HPIB chip, floppy controller, etc and a pair of Sony > double-sided floppy drives. > > The 24 pin connector is HPIB (aka IEEE488), and it uses the SS/80 command > set, I think. The 5 pin DIN plug is the power input (ground, +5V, +12V) > from the HP150-II power supply. I've got the pinouts if anyone wants to > try it with another HP machine. > > Logically it acts the same as a 9122, I think. Electronically the > circuitry is quite different. > > -tony -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 20:36:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Another excess item Message-ID: <35AAB61C.9D39582A@bbtel.com> I've posted this before but the list occupants change so I'll see if I can find a home again for it. Everytime I go to rework it to a CGA/EGA cable I think that there's someone out there with a crap mono monitor on a PCjr that would love to have an original PCJr Color Display. It's in great shape and I don't have a Jr and haven't messed with one since college a thousand years ago. If anyone might be interested in negociating a fair trade of cash or PC items that I can use in other machines drop me a note. PC Enterprises is one of the few sources that still has "refurbished" PCJr Color Displays and they want an outrageous $189 or so for one. I'd like to slap anyone that would pay that in this stage of the Jr's... Contact me direct if interested. BTW....If anyone may be intertested in the Visual 102 with keyboard for FREE (you pay the shipping) it's now LAST CALL before I strip the goodies out of it and send it to computer and terminal heaven. Contact me soon. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Jul 13 20:47:17 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT In-Reply-To: <19980712201029.23911.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199807140147.LAA19640@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 01:10 PM 12-07-98 -0700, Max Eskin wrote: >I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >little feet supporting it. The Borg Cube PC :-) I'd like one as it would make a change from the boring standard PC looking boxes in my computer room (err, office). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 20:35:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714004929.19462.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 13, 98 05:49:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/21ec351f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 13 20:39:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jul 13, 98 05:51:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/61ec710e/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Mon Jul 13 22:06:03 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: from "Rax" at Jul 13, 98 01:01:01 pm Message-ID: >> 75 - C-64 (Go ahead, laugh now - but just you wait til I get them hooked up >> in parallel and have the worlds first C-64 supercomputer...) > >I thought _I_ was the crazy one with 12 or so PDP11s and 4 PERQs, but >_75_ C64s???? Why???? > >-tony Got 'em all as a lot at an auction, along with several boxes of peripherals and other junk, for 75 bucks. How could I pass up a deal like that? Now all I need to build that Commodore Supercomputer is another 68 power supplies... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 20:56:10 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980713215605.00695138@netpath.net> If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on the nose? You get the picture... :) At 11:47 AM 7/14/98 +1000, Huw Davies wrote: >At 01:10 PM 12-07-98 -0700, Max Eskin wrote: >>I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >>I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >>black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >>little feet supporting it. > >The Borg Cube PC :-) > >I'd like one as it would make a change from the boring standard PC looking >boxes in my computer room (err, office). > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From wpe at interserv.com Mon Jul 13 20:58:05 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z References: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AABB2D.3D7CA56E@interserv.com> Sorry, that was not the PS2, that was the On-Site unit... Ny apologies for any confusion... Will Gene Ehrich wrote: > > At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 > > It came with only one hard drive. > > 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. > > Gene > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > gene@ehrich.com > Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 > ------------------------------------------------------ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jul 13 20:58:55 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <3f953755.35aabb60@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-13 21:22:26 EDT, you write: << Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat like an Apple II. >> this machine is essentially an apple //c compatible. the keyboard sucks, but has the same function as a //c. the machine also has an expansion slot on the left to which an apple card can plug into, although it was not designed for it. i once ran a disk controller card in it without problems. make sure you get the power supply. ive been told the //c ps was equivalent though. the machine supposedly was 99% apple compatible which was true since i never could connect to aol when they still supported apple. i had to borrow a friend's //c to logon. david From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 21:04:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: PS2 50Z References: <199807140116.SAA23019@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35AABCCA.5CCF7524@bbtel.com> READ ALL ABOUT IT! http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/8550z.html Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 08:06 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Picked up at a yard sale today, in Framingham, Ma. > > IBM P/S 2, Model 50Z > > On-Site Computer Systems box... Unit seems to have two hard > > disk drives, that, on the outside, remind me of the old RD54 > > It came with only one hard drive. > > 286 processor and the same as a model 50 but had Zero wait states. > > Gene > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > gene@ehrich.com > Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 > ------------------------------------------------------ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 21:14:09 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <199807140214.TAA09213@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called > >Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand >that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat >like an Apple II. It's an Apple IIc clone, and very similar to it. It has one Apple II compatible slot on the left side. Laser was the only company which actually made legal Apple II clones and withstood Apple's lawyers. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Jul 13 21:17:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Compaq memory needed Message-ID: <35AABFD3.4B280627@bbtel.com> Need at least one SIMM memory for a Compaq 286SLT notebook/laptop in either 1, 2 or 4 mb. These are special types that plug in and have the card edge plug to one side. Direct email if you may have something. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Jul 13 21:20:26 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807140220.MAA19949@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> I'm not sure I want to do this, as I'll only confirm that I'm collecting too much. Fortunately, most of my hardware is stored at work as the store room here is bigger than my house.... At home: Osborne I (1 floppy dead) S100 bus system (in bits, I'm still building the case/power supply from new parts) Apple IIc (in bits) Mac IIcx (not quite classic but runs A/UX) Microbee Various HP calculators (25, 67, 35) At work: uVAX-II uVAX-III 2x DECmateII DECmateIII 3x Pro350 2x Pro380 PDP-11/83 VAX6230 with Unibus expansion VAX6330 Assorted Star Couplers, HSC70s, SDI cables and disks for VAX systems 2x VAXstation 4000VLC VAXstation 3100/38 VAXstation 3100/76 IBM RS/6000 model 320 (not really classic) SGI Crimson (not classic apart from colour :-) A number of IBM x-terminals I think I'd better stop now.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 21:38:22 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. >Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on >the nose? You get the picture... :) I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:07:33 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: can I use any 68040 chip in a mac ? Message-ID: <001401bdaed4$8dbe4a40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Yeah, but I not a big fan of the MacOS; and since i can download a more updated OS version, I figured i might as well give it a shot. experimentation is the best part :) From: Hans Franke >On all 68LC040 Macs you just need to exchange it with >an 68040 to get the MathCo. Just check the frequency. > >But using a 636 for NetBSD isn't a good idea - any >486-PC will give the same or better performance - but >while using Mac OS 8 the 63x are just fine machines. Yeah, it runs pretty well w/ 52mb of ram, although i can think of better places to put it.... >P.S.: don't forget the memory update - the 63x Macs >can use 36 or 52 MB of Mem, depending on the mobo >revision. If you have 1 SIMM slot, add a 32MB module, >if there are two slots, use a 16 MB modul in the outhermost >and a 32 in the innermost slot. From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:15:39 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: fake NeXT's IDENTITY. Message-ID: <004501bdaed5$af0d6680$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> It's called the "Rock City", by the Panda Project. www.rockcity.net, and www.pandaproject.com pretty cool and reasonably cheap machine; they have a new Dec Alpha 533 box. wireless keyboard, LCD display, etc. sorry for the off topic reply :) -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 3:10 PM Subject: fake NeXT >I was peeking into the Popular Science at the supermarket yesterday, and >I noticed a peculiar entry in "What's New": a computer shaped like a >black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with >little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular >PC. Next to it, it had an LCD panel and keyboard. The case was much >uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a >cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought >you people might be interested. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From poesie at geocities.com Mon Jul 13 22:21:22 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: LCD repair Message-ID: <006401bdaed6$7b143c40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Well, the computer repair company I worked for used to do alot of LCD and laptop repair. Alot of times the lines are either easy to fix problems w/ cables and little wire connectors, and other times they are just on their way out ( i repaired servers and desktops so I never got to dabble :/ ) in any case, a good place that does *VERY* reasonable LCD and laptop repair is Matrix International, which i believe is www.matrixintl.com, or... I've forgotten the phone #, but they are in Austin TX. they used to do flat rate LCD repair for us for 125 a system. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, July 11, 1998 10:39 PM Subject: LCD repair >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right >place). > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > >I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy >the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > >-- Doug > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17527@world.std.com> < What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a < number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, < document everything, and write a repair manual.... Either that or I have to trouble shoot the two maxtor2190s(rd54) I have with seek spindown death. I know it's not a HDA problem as I opened them and watch the gyrations. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17592@world.std.com> < > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? < > < > Yes. < < I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. Bill, you just got the good memory award. ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:36 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17675@world.std.com> < Well, I think that the default lack of floppy drive was a mistake, as No it was still costly. < was the lack of RAM. I'm not sure what year it is, but I believe 640K < was standard by then. Also, I have the Getting Started manual for the That would be a few years later. < >Apart from the IR keyboard, which was a mistake ;-), it's basically a < PC < >without the DMA chip, but with better-than-CGA graphics. What's wrong < >with it? Since the average XT PC doesn't use DMA very intelligently anyway it was not much loss. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Jul 13 22:19:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807140319.AA17790@world.std.com> < > What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a < > number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, < > document everything, and write a repair manual.... To date I've successfuly opened and fixed maxtor2190s and Micropolus 1325s wit HDA difficulties. I've run a RD52 with the cover off as a demonstration and I have somewhere a 16 year old st506 with a lexan topcover for viewing. It all boils down to what was the failure and is it fixable. The latter can be hard as platter assemblies and generally "glued and screwed" and tend to be hard to get apart. Heads are small fine things easily broken. If the media is scared it's a total as the metal will be everywhere and some fo the metal like the head cantelever is steel so all that steel dust is now in the magnet assembly for the positioner... Not impossible but there is a certain amount of pick and choose in which one to fix. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Jul 13 22:34:38 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Laser 128 In-Reply-To: <199807140118.SAA17181@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called > > Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand > that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat > like an Apple II. People should do a quick web search before asking these sorts of questions, which we get asked over and over and over (I think this is the 5th time this year someone has asked what a Laser 128 is). There are plentiful resources on the web to answer these sorts of queries. The Laser 128 is an Apple //e,c clone. It will run just about any Apple II software. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Jul 13 23:16:59 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black magic marker. I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a market for it? I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in wood. :) Is this off-topic? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Mon Jul 13 23:26:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might > make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a > market for it? You're crazy, paint and plastic don't mix. But a chrome-plated Mac might be cool. Or take your case and make your own mold: cast aluminum Macs, ceramic Macs -- that's the ticket! -- Doug From bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 14 07:54:27 1998 From: bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807140957.EAA16437@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> My first chance to boast of: California Computer Systems S-100 KayPro II NorthStar Horizon w/ Televideo 912 NorthStar Advantage 8/16 (very dead) VIC 20 Apple II+ Apple IIc Apple IIe IBM PC IBM PC XT IBM PC AT IBM PC Jr. Apple Lisa 2 Radio Shack CoCo ProcTech SOL-20 Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 14 07:44:16 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:14 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another motherboard revision ? > Torch Z80 Card x 2 ?? same here. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:44:44 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: Message-ID: <35AB44AC.8C8C249F@bbtel.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might > > make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a > > market for it? > > You're crazy, paint and plastic don't mix. But a chrome-plated Mac might > be cool. Or take your case and make your own mold: cast aluminum Macs, > ceramic Macs -- that's the ticket! Dependant upon the base of the paint, it most certainly will. I've had to rework some less collectable machines and repainted them with paints that have toluene, acetone and xylene base, satin finish, availabel at Walmarts as "fashion satin" paints. Of course there's a certain touch to it to get a decent finish and you have to ruff up the finish properly. I've had people want black finish PS/2's and they are "looking good" especially with a black keyboard and monitor and a charcoal grey mouse. The other suggestons you have are kind of a thought too though, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to cut a mold for a ceramic case -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:50:00 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AB45E8.4039C563@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint > something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product > for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor > once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, > but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black > magic marker. Use paints that have glue type solvents, ones with toluene, acetone and xylene that will melt into the finsih below and/or plastic and bond after sanding with 400 sandpaper, works great. Like I said in the other message the "fashion satin" paint they have at Walmart works exceptionally well and comes in beige, light and dark grey and black. I keep a can of white too but rarely need it except for an occasional monitor blemish. After it dries overnight (esp black) clean it down with a sponge and then dry it off and the excess dust of overspray will be gone, just like a factory finish. > I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble > cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in > wood. :) That might be kinda neat looking. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:52:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: LCD repair References: <006401bdaed6$7b143c40$a1f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: <35AB4660.6904D485@bbtel.com> We all might as well dabble in LCD repair and technology since it seems the next generation of monitors are flat screen without a CRT made up of LCD panels, and will be classics someday soon. Poesie wrote: > Well, the computer repair company I worked for used to do alot of LCD and > laptop repair. Alot of times the lines are either easy to fix problems w/ > cables and little wire connectors, and other times they are just on their > way out ( i repaired servers and desktops so I never got to dabble :/ ) in > any case, a good place that does *VERY* reasonable LCD and laptop repair is > Matrix International, which i believe is www.matrixintl.com, or... I've > forgotten the phone #, but they are in Austin TX. they used to do flat rate > LCD repair for us for 125 a system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Saturday, July 11, 1998 10:39 PM > Subject: LCD repair > > >OK, hardware gurus, how about some remote diagnostic help: PowerBook 160 > >(my first and only Mac), a bunch of black vertical lines of varying width > >on the LCD (different patterns on the two panels that make up the > >display), but otherwise the display looks good (all the bits in the right > >place). > > > >Video RAM? LCD controller? Cable problem on the laptop side? Cable > >problem on the LCD side? Bad LCD? Repair FAQ? > > > >I have a volt meter, a logic probe, a fear of high current, but I enjoy > >the occassional high voltage zap. What's my next move? > > > >-- Doug > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Jul 14 06:53:26 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) References: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <35AB46B5.528A94BA@bbtel.com> Cleaning is best with denatured alcohol prior to painting, it doesn't eat the plastic or old paint and gets all the old foriegn stuff off well. Tom Owad wrote: > >If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. > >Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > >the nose? You get the picture... :) > > I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > Tom Owad > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From franke at sbs.de Tue Jul 14 09:10:43 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <199807141156.NAA06153@marina.fth.sbs.de> Russ Blakeman: > blindpete@stratos.net wrote: >> I was talking to a few friends and we wore wondering what the earliest >> versions of micro soft's dos and windows was. >> The earlies version of windows I have herd of is windows 2.0, I also think >> there was a windows whith out a version number. >> The earlies version of dos I herd about was dos1.1 or some thing like that, >> it has been a while so I'am a byt fogggy on it. >> I am currious about the software because I wonder how well or pore it >> worked whith speech. > Dos 1.25 is the earliest version for general distributuion, previous versions > were too buggy, same as DOS 2.0, the 2.11 was the distribution standard when > double sided drives came out. Nop. There have been at least 2 major public releases other than 1.25. 1.0 and 1.1. 1.0 was the first public release for the IBM PC and 1.1 added new disk types. 1.1 and 1.25 are almost identical - 1.1 was the IBM version, 1.25 the OEM version. If you're searching old versions (maybe prior to 1.25) you should look for things like Z-DOS (Zenith), 86-DOS (back licensed MS-DOS to Seatle Computer products), SB-86 (Lifeboat Associates) or COMPAQ-DOS (guess who :). Maybe a bunch of other names I don't recall right now, since MS licenced it to any 8088/8086 computer manufacturer available. DOS 1.x was still machine dependant, since the BIOS had to met the hardware. DOS 2.0 and up added new disk types and loadabel device driver. With 2.0 Microsoft tried to establish their own trademark MS-DOS as OS and scraped all OEM licences or at least tried to cut of the different names. After 2.0 only IBM kept the private name of PC DOS. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 08:14:34 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980713213929.24327.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Michael Sheflin" at Jul 13, 98 02:39:29 pm Message-ID: <199807141314.JAA22289@user2.infinet.com> > > What is a fatMac??? > IIRC, back in the early days, there was just The Mac, at 128K. When the new 512K Mac was introduced, it was nicknamed the Fat Mac (and the original was called the Skinny Mac). -ethan From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:38:33 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29242@charity.harvard.net> Thanks, this helps greatly! Now to find parts... Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 8:56 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: C128 Service Manual > > > On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > >bought and need one badly :) > > > > I can't remember the URL, but there is a web site in Europe > that has most > > of the old Commodore 8-bit manuals online. > > Hasn't anybody heard of bookmarks? :-) > http://nic.funet.fi/pub/cbm/index.html > > -- Doug > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:34:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29245@charity.harvard.net> D'oh! I downloaded the schematics and am trying to figure out what's up with this thing. Strange thing is the part marked Funt. ROM (U 36 I think) is empty! I'm wondering if this is supposed to be the case. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 7:46 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: C128 Service Manual > > > > > > Anyone know where I can get one? I'm gonna try to fix a C128 that I > > bought and need one badly :) > > I beleive the commodore schematics are on an ftp site somewhere > (ftp.funet.fi????). I have the C128 service manual but it's only the > schematics and parts lists and doesn't contain any step-by-step > diagnostics, alas. > > > > > Tony > > -tony > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 08:40:35 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807141345.JAA29252@charity.harvard.net> Actually, there is a little known difference on the power supply board between a beige Mac plus and a Platinum Mac Plus. Just a diode but boy oh boy did it cause havoc when installing a certain CPU accelerator board made by now defunct MacMemory. Mommy! I let the magic smoke out! Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:08 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > > >Every so often, someone asks how many computers I have, and > I always find > >it hard to give a straight answer. It depends whether you > count half a > >dozen 68000 boards as 1 + spares, or 6 -- I only have two > keyboards and one > >PSU rigged up for them -- or none, since I haven't got the > orignal case or > >PSU. Or the PDP-11s; I have several spare CPUs and other > boards, but only > >a few cabinets. > > Well, just tell 'em what I do. I've got about 70 computers > (See the web > page if you want the list, I'm not typing them all in :^) ), > not counting > duplicates/spares. However, I do count such things as a > "Beige Mac Plus" > and a "Platinum Mac Plus" separatly, despite the fact the only real > difference is the colour of the case (well, in this case the keyboards > also). Still I think the only systems that fall into that > catagory are the > Mac Plus, TI-99/4a, and A1200(HD). > > Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For > example I've got a > Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of > thing, basically > a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From wanderer at bos.nl Tue Jul 14 10:59:32 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: 40 ? Re: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AB8064.36AA@bos.nl> > What's a G40? Never heard of one. It's an HP 9000/800 model G40. A box measuring 40cm by 40cm by 50cm deep, and it has a 40Mhz processor. Ed From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 09:20:35 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807141423.OAA11737@cyber2.servtech.com> At 17:51 13-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> What we now need is for some brave person (me, Allison???) to take a >> number of old (and dead) drives, make a clean box, pull them apart, >> document everything, and write a repair manual.... > >I would love to help with this effort as I'm very good with my hands and >the whole point of starting this thread was to guage the practicality of >home hard drive repair, but currently I wouldn't have the time to embark >on such an endeavor, although at some point I will. I hope that whatever >tricks I'm able to pioneer with respect to hard drive repair will be >passed on in FAQs. Good! We'll be watching, Sam! :-) > >I've already noted the discussions on building a clean box and at some >point will be creating one. QUESTION: Is there a way to determine just >how clean such a clean box is after its built? Is there some meter that >can be hooked-up to the exhaust opening that will give you a particulate Yes there is a device used to count particles in the air. But you may not like the cost of them. My job involves work in our Class 10,000 cleanroom at my place of employment. A few of you others out there either once had or now work in such a company that has cleanroom(s), or possibly had spent time in a cleanroom as a service person. I can give a brief primer on how a cleanroom is built and short definition of the federal standard of cleanroom classes if some of you are interested. That would give a picture of the environment within which the drives had been manufactured and what one would do to make a simple one for his/her use. We make linear encoders of which the finest line size of the ronchi ruling on the encoder substrate is 4 microns (157.48 millionths of an inch.) Figure one micron = 39.37 millionths of an inch (0.00003937"). Most dust particles in 'free air' (the air we normally live in and breathe everyday) are in the 0.5 to 10 micron range. Therefore, keeping the air _clean_ during the manufacturing process has benefited us extremely well. Of course, semiconductor manufacturers fabricate microprocessors, transistors, all other IC's in cleanroom environments. Those hokey Intel TV advertisements with cleanroom workers in full body suits are actually not far off the mark with regard to the actual need to keep a class 10 or 100 cleanroom clean when making chips with sub-micron features. I had purchased a particle counter at work to check the "cleanness" of the air in various zones in the cleanroom. These machines are somewhat complicated though the basic concept used for counting particles is not. Most particle counters are sensitive. The one I bought is able to "see", therefore count, a *single* particle as small as 0.5 micron. Our unit has similar specifications as other typical brands of particle counters but it still cost us a little over US$10,000. Used equipment dealers have them for less but it's still not reasonable for the hobbyist or even a very small business. Maintenace parts and calibration is also a bit high. BTW, the air quality in most areas of our cleanroom stays at less than 100 particles per cubic foot. Very clean when considering that outside air which is relatively clean (say, the proverbial fresh mountain air) has 100,000 to 500,000 particles per cu. foot -more with forest fires, etc. nearby. If I do decide to tinker with some of my dead hard drives, I plan to bring them to the plant some weekend and have at it :-) I'll just slip on a boufont (sp.?) cap as a hair cover, special gloves, my lab coat and maybe a face mask of some sort, setup at an empty table and away I go! >count? My Panasonic vacuum cleaner has such a detector that triggers a >dual-color LED on the front panel: it lights red if it detects dirt >particles passing through the hose and green if the particle count is >below some threshold. This is an extremely simplified version of a particle counter. I can envision it as having a simple LED emitter, probably IR, on one side of the hose and a photodetector on the opposite side. The detector and the analog front end may be rather sensitive to differentiate minute changes in light intensity. When significant amounts of dust and crap are sucked thru the hose the light is slightly occluded whichs lowers the output of the photodetector which then trips the circuit driving the red LED on your Panasonic vac. This is much too coarse of a device to measure air quality in any home-built glovebox/cleanroom any of us may build. It serves to show the homeowner that the Panasonic company's wonderful Model Such-and-Such is doing a great job at cleaning their house. Pure marketing gimmick but kinda neat on a home vac anyway IMO. > >> Yep, this is an interesting thread for me... > >Me too! Thanks for starting the discussion Sam, as a few of us who have the resources will need to get into it in the future -if not now. I can offer additional ideas and advice from my own cleanroom experience to the group on setting up a work area using either homemade or used commercial "clean benches", etc. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 09:28:58 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35AA4FDB.E16BF4A8@polygon.com> from "J. Buck Caldwell" at Jul 13, 98 01:20:12 pm Message-ID: <199807141428.KAA23389@user2.infinet.com> Well, here goes: (Exact quantities not listed, but ranging from 1 to some, depending on the model) 6502 PET 2001 (32k), 8032 (w/D9060 and D9090 hard disk) VIC-20 C-64 SX-64 (one with w/1.3" IDE hard disk!) SYM-1 (recent aquisition, not yet powered on) 68000 Amiga 1000, 500, 2000, 2000 tower, A3000, A4000, CD-32 Perkin-Elmer 7380 (SYSIII UNIX) Motorola Trainer (SBC 4Mhz 68K + 32K DRAM) Software Results Corp. "Node" (prototypes for a WAN router, from former job) Software Results Corp. "ASP" (pocket-sized ASYNC<->SYNC protocol converter w/68008, ROM, RAM, Z8530 SIO, from former job) Mac 512Ke (800K floppy), Mac Plus, Mac SE, SE/30. 1802 Elf (self-built) and COSMAC VIP. Sun 3/60, SPARC1, SPARC2, IPX, IPC, LX. VAX 8200, uVAXII, UVAXI, 11/730, 11/750, uVAX2000 PDP-11 11/34a, 11/24, 11/03, 11/23, MINC-11, 11/23+, DATARAM (3rd party Qbus box with 8" floppy (not real RX01) and Dilog DQ614 + MFM disk emulating RL02), 11/05, 11/20 parts, 11/70 (coming soon), 11/04, PRO-350, PRO-380 PDP-8 -8, -8/L, -8/i, -8/e, -8/a, DECmate I, DECmate II, DECmate III (don't have any examples of -8/S or WT78) Z-80 Z-80 Starter Kit (new aquisition, not yet powered on). Video games Sega Genesis (68000), Odyssey 1 (analog), Gorf (arcade, stand-up, Z-80). And, last but least, PeeCee Cloans Zenith XT portable (used as a portable terminal), Commodore PC-10 (used as a ROM/PAL burner), IBM 5150 PC (running a 68000 hardware tracer/debugger), 2-slot 486 (2" tall chassis, running as a Linux router for cable modem), P133 (Linux/W95/NT), P90, 486SLC (souped-up 386), numerous 486 motherboards. On the network (10BaseFL/10Base2/10BaseT) are a WebRamp (dial-in/dial-out router), two Amigas, two SPARCs, the PC-10 (ROM burner) and two Pentia. If I could get an ethernet adapter for a C-64, I'd do it. In case this sounds like a little much, I do make my own peripherals - I used to manufacture an intelligent serial card for VAXen and PDP-11's (The COMBOARD(R), 68000 based, with DMA interface to Qbus/Unibus/VAXBI), and do still make a board for the Amiga, the GG2 Bus+, that lets you stick ISA peripherals in your Amiga (Ethernet, IDE disk, 8250/16550 serial and printer). Much of the big iron is related to current and former manufacturing and testing. Last week, I bought a worthy place to store/display the collection - a spot of land at the edge of town (Columbus, OH), with a house and a 1500 sq. ft. quonset hut. The museum opens in 1999. Stay tuned for announcements. -ethan I was going to name the museum the Society for Historical Infomation Technology, but thought better of it. ;-) The Foundation for Ubiquitous Computer Knowledge is right out. From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 09:36:29 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199807141438.OAA12157@cyber2.servtech.com> At 02:39 14-07-98 +0100, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: --snip-- >I believe something like this does exist. A Kennedy winchester service >manual mentions a plugged hole on the HDA cover as being a port for a >particle counter which you use to tell you when to change the breather >filter. This port allows one to check performance of the HEPA filter in the air moving system. >I don't know how it works. For high particle counts (like your vacuum >cleaner), I would guess you could use light scattering. I can't believe >that would work at class 100 levels, though. Light scattering is how most particle counters work and indeed they are sensitive in the range below class 10. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 10:01:36 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980714150136.26610.qmail@hotmail.com> Why not use a radioisotope and a metal plate, like in a smoke detector? I think the element could be removed from the smoke detector and wired into a different circuit that triggers on dust. > >I don't know how it works. For high particle counts (like your vacuum >cleaner), I would guess you could use light scattering. I can't believe >that would work at class 100 levels, though. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net Tue Jul 14 10:01:44 1998 From: tomsaddressformaillists at altavista.net (tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: how many computers? Message-ID: <199807141501.LAA06845@web03.globecomm.net> I suppose I'll chime in with my small collection: Apple ][+ clone (label says "Tel-Com", the keys have CP/M, MBASIC, and other commands silkscreened onto them) Apple Lisa 1 Apple Lisa 2/10 DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) Osborne 1 Epson QX-16 (seeking more, as always...) Other stuff: Televideo 950 terminal Power Macintosh 6100/66 (maybe as one of the first powermacs it will have some historical significance someday. Contains a 486 DOS card.) Generic 586 PeeCee (yawn) This account is used so mailing lists don't clutter up Tom's real account. If you really want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org From erd at infinet.com Tue Jul 14 10:24:55 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: how many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141501.LAA06845@web03.globecomm.net> from "tomsaddressformaillists@altavista.net" at Jul 14, 98 11:01:44 am Message-ID: <199807141524.LAA24319@user2.infinet.com> > > I suppose I'll chime in with my small collection: > > Apple ][+ clone... Ack! I forgot to mention my Apple ][+ (and NextSlab) on my previous post. Perhaps it's a form of Jobs Repression? > DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest to resurrect the product. -ethan From red at bears.org Tue Jul 14 10:44:07 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remmeber it was supposed to be a _home_ computer. At the time very few > home computers came with floppy drives. > > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? Dunno, mine's got an IBM 360k drive in it. My biggest complaints about are the 'sidecar' expansion (the second all-time-lamest computer innovation) and the fact that all backpanel ports are.. BERG headers (the first all-time-lamest computer innovation). What's up with the tiny card-edge connectors inside on the motherboard? I also noticed my keyboard (which is a joke) has an RJ-11 jack off to the side, and that there's a 2x3 BERG header at the back labelled 'K'. Could this be for a keyboard cable, heaven forbid? Also, keyboard battery life is uniformly poor. It seems like I get about 20 minutes. Is this normal? ok r. From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 10:47:51 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: C128 Service Manual Message-ID: <199807141601.MAA13469@charity.harvard.net> A bit of followup... I ordered the Sam's Photofact kit for the C128. Guess I'll be breaking out the scope. Tony From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 11:18:38 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141618.JAA03285@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? Absolutely! :-) I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid colors. :-) A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Jul 14 11:38:21 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <1998Jul14.123645.1767.118627@smtp.itgonline.com> Yes the RJ-11 jack is to hard wire the keyboard. My PC Jr works wireless okay up to four or five feet then gets flakey. Batteries don't last long in mine either although it's been a long time since I've played with it. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: How many computers? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/14/98 11:45 AM On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remmeber it was supposed to be a _home_ computer. At the time very few > home computers came with floppy drives. > > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? Dunno, mine's got an IBM 360k drive in it. My biggest complaints about are the 'sidecar' expansion (the second all-time-lamest computer innovation) and the fact that all backpanel ports are.. BERG headers (the first all-time-lamest computer innovation). What's up with the tiny card-edge connectors inside on the motherboard? I also noticed my keyboard (which is a joke) has an RJ-11 jack off to the side, and that there's a 2x3 BERG header at the back labelled 'K'. Could this be for a keyboard cable, heaven forbid? Also, keyboard battery life is uniformly poor. It seems like I get about 20 minutes. Is this normal? ok r. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul14.114543.1767.51176; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:45:43 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA02047; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:32 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA24738 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:21 -0700 Received: from instinct.bears.org (red@instinct.bears.org [208.9.111.102]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA00421 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (red@localhost) by instinct.bears.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA19769 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:44:07 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: How many computers? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 11:59:32 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141707.NAA19820@charity.harvard.net> I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool one was the granite macintosh. I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac 128K Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 12:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) > > > >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on > computers might > >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there > would ever be a > >market for it? > > Absolutely! :-) > > I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would > have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I > cold do solid > colors. :-) > > A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power > Mac 5100's. > They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. > > Tom Owad > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: > From peacock at simconv.com Tue Jul 14 12:23:03 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4BD@mail.simconv.com> DEC actually tried something like that in the late 70's, they had an option for some kind of designer pattern painted on small racks going into office environments. I think it only lasted a few months, but I do remember getting the brochures from DEC (company was an OEM from DEC at the time). Response was underwhelming. Personally, if it isn't beige or blue I don't consider it a "real" computer. When DEC went to the black racks and purple lettering (hmm, early 70s?) that was too radical for me, I was glad to see a return to the traditional beige rack. DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular than the "designer" panels. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 9:19 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 12:22:50 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141618.JAA03285@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714132250.0093f840@netpath.net> At 09:18 AM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >colors. :-) > >A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. Well, people do say I am really autistic, er, artistic, so I should be able to come up with something. Wish I still had my airbrush setup to work with. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics when I do it. I have an empty SE/30 case to practice on. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 12:22:07 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141707.NAA19820@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714132207.00938ad0@netpath.net> At 12:59 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered >a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool >one was the granite macintosh. > >I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac >128K Maybe that's what I should do with the empty SE/30 case: A Macquarium with a custom paint job! :) From rax at warbaby.com Tue Jul 14 13:49:38 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > >Tom Owad > >-- >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly challenged one's touch-typing skills... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:41:23 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <9806149004.AA900467036@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? Right. My turn now. Unlike most of you, it seems, a lot of my computers don't work. I seem to acquire faster than I can repair - perhaps because computers are just one hobby among many, perhaps because acquiring computers is relatively easy... I have about 60. Last time I counted I got to about 51 but I don't think I got them all. A selection: Assorted PETs, at least one C64 and a couple of VIC 20s (one with missing keytop); Assorted PDPs in various states of disrepair, plus a large number of spare M-series boards (both Unibus and Qbus, including several CPU boards) and a couple of Rainbows; Several BBC model Bs (don't know what sorts) and an electron; Tatung Einstein, TI 99/4A; Sinclair ZX81, Spectrum, Spectrum +2; IBM PC-AT, 6150 (= RT PC tower model), System/23 (5332 Datamaster); A couple of Compaq 386 lapdogs; HP 71C, 75C, 85, 86, 87 (but the HP I use most is my 28C - I suppose that's a classic now); Sirius-1, FTS Series-88 (nearly two of those), Superbrain; I recently got a couple of Apple ][ and a couple of Exidy Sorcerors; But my favourite is the Tektronix 4052 graphics box. With luck, I'll bring it to the VCF this autumn ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H fall. Philip. From rax at warbaby.com Tue Jul 14 13:52:44 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: >At 07:38 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Tom Owad wrote: > >>I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best >>for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > >Hmmm. I would probably go with a really fine sandpaper to give the paint >something to stick to, then if I wanted, clear coat the finished product >for a good seal against possible flaking. I painted a 14" SVGA monitor >once. Flat black, straight out of a cheap spraypaint can. It never flaked, >but some did rub off when I moved the monitor. I touched it up with black >magic marker. > >I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers might >make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be a >market for it? > >I've seen one guy on the net that has built custom mahogany and marble >cases for his Mac cx and others. Was cool to see a more recent Apple in >wood. :) > >Is this off-topic? > It's too cool a thread to be off-topic. There's an outfit here in San Francisco that does custom paint jobs on computers and they have more work than they know what to do with. One of my dreams is to re-case my CPU and monitor in mahogany and brass like 19th century scientific gear. It wouldn't be that big a job, but then I'd have to build a keyboard from scratch with engraved ivory keys...umm...I think I'll put it off a little longer. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 14 12:48:05 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980714132207.00938ad0@netpath.net> Message-ID: Occasionally I travel through Singapore and I try to stop at Funan Center. It is a 5 story Mall in which the top 3 floors are all computer shops. There is one store that has a collection of old Macs in the front of the shop. The cases feature several different brightly colored paint schemes. Although they seem a bit dusty it sure is a standout! George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 12:59 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I seem to remember a company way back (when the Mac Plus was considered > >a power machine) that used to do custom faux finishes on Macs. The cool > >one was the granite macintosh. > > > >I think the company was also the first to make a fishtank out of a Mac > >128K > > Maybe that's what I should do with the empty SE/30 case: A Macquarium with > a custom paint job! :) > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 14 12:52:50 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any idea how we might find the original paint color to restore a faded Mac or other Apple product to new condition? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rax wrote: > >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job on my SE/30. > >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint would be best > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit before hand? > > > >Tom Owad > > > >-- > >Sysop of Caesarville Online > >Client software at: > > > My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from > a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I > thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, > but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly > challenged one's touch-typing skills... > > R. > > -- > > > > Warbaby > The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. > http://www.warbaby.com > > The MonkeyPool > WebSite Content Development > http://www.monkeypool.com > > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:51:13 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote: >> media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster >> for servo tracks. >> >> FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow > > A lot of winchesters land the heads on the platter - and not always in a > special 'landing zone'. This implies the heads start flying as the disk > gets up to speed. > > It also implies that the heads can land on the platter without damage. On > the other hand, there's a difference between the landing when the drive > spins down, and crashing due to hitting a dust particle. > >> the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside >> the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the >> media and is then captured in a filter. > > Agreed... A lot has been said about dust in hard drives, most of it assuming that the dust is dry. But only one person (sorry, can't remember who) has talked about other things. Remember, not all pollutants are dry. Some (water, spittle) are wet, and some are quite sticky (ever parked your car under lime trees?). These will mess a hard drive up something cruel! Yes, if you take reasonable precautions, you may well be OK. But one day, if you haven't got a clean room, you will come to grief... BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian will parobably be able to answer this) how do you grade clean rooms? I take it it has something to do with the size of the largest particles you'll find in the air and/or how many of them you have... Oh yes. I take it "Tobacco for chewing only" goes without saying ;-) Philip. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 12:55:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? >I recently got a couple of Apple ][ and a couple of Exidy Sorcerors; ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Jul 14 12:57:50 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141759.NAA25130@charity.harvard.net> In the old days, I used to work for a company that made hard disk subsystems for the mac. When Apple changed to the "Platinum" color scheme, they sent out a paint sample with a pantone color #. Someone MUST know what it is... Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: George Rachor [mailto:george@racsys.rt.rain.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 1:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) > > > Any idea how we might find the original paint color to > restore a faded Mac > or other Apple product to new condition? > > George > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Rax wrote: > > > >>If I ever get the time, I want to do a custom paint job > on my SE/30. > > >>Remember the fighter planes of WW2 that had the > mouth/teeth/eyes painted on > > >>the nose? You get the picture... :) > > > > > >I've been tempted to do that too. :-) What kind of paint > would be best > > >for this? And how would you go about cleaning the unit > before hand? > > > > > >Tom Owad > > > > > >-- > > >Sysop of Caesarville Online > > >Client software at: > > > > > > My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got > the paint from > > a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic > models. I > > thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted > the keyboard, > > but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly > > challenged one's touch-typing skills... > > > > R. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Warbaby > > The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. > > http://www.warbaby.com > > > > The MonkeyPool > > WebSite Content Development > > http://www.monkeypool.com > > > > > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 13:03:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! Message-ID: <19980714180318.20865.qmail@hotmail.com> I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know your address and can email you. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 14 13:16:35 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. > Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? Sort of true. It used eight track cassette casings, but the insides were replaced with a circuit board with a ROM on it. So basically, they cleverly designed their program carthridges around a readily available source of casings: the 8-track tape. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:13:11 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: References: <199807140238.TAA08626@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141311.0093d100@netpath.net> At 10:49 AM 7/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >My ex-girlfriend painted her Mac metalflake purple. She got the paint from >a model shop - it's the stuff they use for painting plastic models. I >thought it would fuck everything up when she spray-painted the keyboard, >but it didn't seem to do it any harm. Worked fine, but it certainly >challenged one's touch-typing skills... Hmmmm. Metalflake with orange and yellow flames... From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:14:44 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141444.00925cf0@netpath.net> At 10:52 AM 7/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >One of my dreams is to re-case my CPU and monitor in mahogany and brass >like 19th century scientific gear. It wouldn't be that big a job, but then >I'd have to build a keyboard from scratch with engraved ivory >keys...umm...I think I'll put it off a little longer. At one time, I was thinking of "retrofitting" my computer into an old rolltop desk, but it's like 100 years old. It is mine, but my wife would still kill me. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 13:17:07 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: <199807141759.NAA25130@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714141707.00928a90@netpath.net> At 01:57 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >In the old days, I used to work for a company that made hard disk >subsystems for the mac. When Apple changed to the "Platinum" color >scheme, they sent out a paint sample with a pantone color #. Someone >MUST know what it is... I heard it mentioned on some list, could have sworn it was this one, but maybe not. The Pantone color DOES exist somewhere. This looks like a job for the search engines. From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 13:55:31 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <199807141855.LAA06905@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Any idea how we might find the original paint color to restore a faded Mac >or other Apple product to new condition? The old Beige cases are made with Borg-Warner's ABS Cyclolac using the color PMS 453. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From Archive at navix.net Tue Jul 14 15:55:16 1998 From: Archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! References: <19980714180318.20865.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35ABC5B3.D1FCA846@navix.net> Max: I believe Anthony still monitors this list.... but just isn't taking an active role as he's kind of moved on to some other hobbies/business (publishing?). I was in Des Moines a while back and picked up some computers he was liquidating. CORD COSLOR Max Eskin wrote: > I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone > seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know > your address and can email you. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 14 15:23:20 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 13, 98 03:10:38 pm Message-ID: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 691 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/96ad773c/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Jul 14 14:25:11 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment Message-ID: <13371653266.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but lacks the instructions to do the deed. Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? ------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 14 14:36:50 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! Message-ID: <9aef9bb5.35abb353@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-14 15:03:11 EDT, you write: << > I don't believe I've seen Anthony Clifton around recently? Has anyone > seen him? If you're reading this, Anthony, please post so that I know > your address and can email you. > >> he did have a website called retrocomputing.com but i am unable to establish a connection to it. I hope that he still is present as I need to close a deal we had made. david From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Jul 14 15:32:19 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4BD@mail.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Jul 14, 98 10:23:03 am Message-ID: <199807142032.NAA20254@goodnet.com> > DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a > regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a > BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular > than the "designer" panels. I have one of these at home. It has a lowered part of the desktop for the monitor. I got it at ASU surplus but it was empty except for a power controller (there are switches right below the desktop on the right side of the rack part, and one of them controls the power controller, but I'm not sure what the other is for.) -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * X window * alternative energy * TCP/IP packet * 808 State * Java * OO * From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 14 15:37:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Aaaaanthony!!! In-Reply-To: <9aef9bb5.35abb353@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-14 15:03:11 EDT, you write: > > he did have a website called retrocomputing.com but i am unable to establish a > connection to it. I hope that he still is present as I need to close a deal we > had made. According to internic, you might be able to contact him at clifton@CAPTAINJACK.COM I liked his domain name, and since he declared he's leaving the field, I decided to register a similar domain. I'm now the proud owner of RETROCOMPUTE.COM (coming soon to a web site near you). -- Doug From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 15:40:16 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 06:41 PM 7/14/98 GMT, you wrote: >> I was just wondering, how many computers do all you have out there??? > Not many, 10 to 20, and some I don't know if to count, such as pc boards with a 6802, 2716, and 2 6821 ic's. I think they came from a cash register system. Others like XT motherboards... 1. Mixed brand S-100 System. Either Flashwriter display or serial to Heatkit H19 terminal. Extra crate and misc cards. 2. Various PC clones. I am using a 386 now. No Pentiums or higher. 3. A few Z-80 test computers. 8 or so ic's on a single board. 4. 80188 board computer for "Radio Electronics" Robot. 5. Homebrew game of "life" computer. (1973) 6. Calculator built from neon bulb "shift register counters". Input is a rotary telephone dial. I think subtraction was "1's complements". (about 1968) Interesting peripherals from late 1970's when I was going a lot. 1. SWTP CT-1024 modified for 64 columns and graphics. Hope to get this working again with some computer. 2. Sylvanhills flat bed plotter. Used DC motors and opto-interruptor wheels which I replaced with stepper motors. 3. Stepper motor 3 axis wax carver. Used cylindrical coordinates. The wax block rotated on a turntable. Literature, including First 7 years of Byte. First few years of Dr. Dobbs, the bound volumes, I didn't keep the individual issues. 2 of the Creative Computer games books. 10 issues of "Computer Hobbyist", I have just found the remaining issues. Documentation for Scelbi 8H and other 8008 stuff. Other construction type books. Various parts, including a box of RTL ic's, 1101 memory's. There apparently was an ad in 1967 "CQ" for an RTL computer. >> DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) > >Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >to resurrect the product. Yes, it would be fun to find things like this. I still have the 3 potentiometer "analog" computer I built for some science fair. The Digicomp I cost $5.95 in 1969 from Edmund Sci. Others were various mechanical (Dr. Nim) and electronic NIM players, Computers like "Brainac", and later in 1971, a National Radio Institute computer using 53 TTL ic's. Have seen only ad's. A RCA projects book I have has a "slot machine" built from individual transistors for flip flops, gates, multivibrators, etc. It "computed" the score, so was a calculator of sorts. Speaking of books, has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. -Dave From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:29:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807140319.AA17527@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 11:19:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/5e76fc5c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:31:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: <199807140319.AA17592@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 13, 98 11:19:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/d993b251/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:35:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jul 14, 98 12:45:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/5d0532d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 13:13:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:15 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807141345.JAA29252@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Jul 14, 98 09:40:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/4656963b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:46:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807141438.OAA12157@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 14, 98 10:36:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/09fb571a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:50:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807141423.OAA11737@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 14, 98 10:20:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/9c3f146d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:42:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980714150136.26610.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 08:01:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/6785fba8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 12:56:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 14, 98 11:44:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1751 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/cb270d69/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 15:46:50 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> At 18:51 14-07-98 +0000, you wrote: >Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote: > >>> media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster >>> for servo tracks. >>> >>> FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow >> >> A lot of winchesters land the heads on the platter - and not always in a >> special 'landing zone'. This implies the heads start flying as the disk >> gets up to speed. >> >> It also implies that the heads can land on the platter without damage. On >> the other hand, there's a difference between the landing when the drive >> spins down, and crashing due to hitting a dust particle. >> >>> the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside >>> the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the >>> media and is then captured in a filter. >> >> Agreed... > >A lot has been said about dust in hard drives, most of it assuming that >the dust is dry. But only one person (sorry, can't remember who) has >talked about other things. > >Remember, not all pollutants are dry. Some (water, spittle) are wet, >and some are quite sticky (ever parked your car under lime trees?). >These will mess a hard drive up something cruel! > >Yes, if you take reasonable precautions, you may well be OK. But one >day, if you haven't got a clean room, you will come to grief... > >BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the air passing through. You see HEPA filters more and more in consumer related things (at least I have in the States). Example: Air filters in many modern automobiles, possibly all autos, use a HEPA filter for engine air intake filtering. Clearances between engine parts are closer nowadays which improves engine performance and efficiency plus smaller engines are stressed harder in relatively large modern cars, both thus requiring really clean air intake. Also, I think I've seen an advertisement for a fancy grade household vacuum cleaner advertising it has a HEPA filter on its exhaust. Less allergens blown about. We use Nilfisk-brand cleanroom vacuum cleaners at work. Made in Denmark I believe. Cost around US$1000 each but they're meant for use *in* cleanrooms and *must* not throw junk about from their exhaust. >will parobably be able to answer this) how do you grade clean rooms? I >take it it has something to do with the size of the largest particles >you'll find in the air and/or how many of them you have... Yes, you are correct re having something to do with size and number of particles. Cleanroom grading is based on Federal Standard 209E. I have the rev. "D" document around the office buried somewhere in some papers. This standard seems to have been adopted outside the USA too. Cleanroom technology has been around a long time in pharmaceutical manufacturing and medical fields and adapted to semiconductor manufacturing in the last 20-30 years. Anyway, here's a short classification table from 209 (hope the formating comes out okay w/text-only displays!): Max. number of particles Class: Max. no. of part. per cubic foot(per liter) English system per cu. ft.(per l.) 0.5 micron and larger (metric system) > 5.0 microns 100 (3.5) 100 (3.5) * 10,000 (350) 10,000 (350) 65 (2.3) 100,000 (3500) 100,000 (3500) 700 (25) How is this measured? A particle counter is used. These machines typically use light-scattering to count the particles passing through a special optical chamber with specially ground curved mirrors. The class number is obtained by pumping sampled air through the chamber at a rate of one cu. ft. per minute. A low power He-Ne laser is used in our particular unit as a stable, coherent light source. Its beam passes through the chamber at a right angle to the air flow. To the side of the path of both the airflow and laser beam a detector array is mounted. When an air particle passes across the beam path, light is reflected off from it to all of the mirrors and bounces to the detector. Our machine has a linear CCD array. When many particles pass across the beam this chamber acts as an opticle integrator and the light from all the particles is 'seen' by the array. The higher the output from the array, the larger the quantity of particles. Also, a relative size of the particle is also established. A group of cells on the array may have light hitting them dependent upon the particle size to yield an integrated value equivalent to a particular size. The analog output is run through an A/D converter and processed by one of the venerable Z80 CPUs and sent to a CRT display and printer. (I told you in the previous post that the concept was simple yet the device was a little complicated!) To sumarize the determination of the count: Take exactly one cubic foot of air and pass it through the counter during exactly one minute and count the particles. Therefore, a class 10,000 cleanroom has less than or equal to 10,000 particles in one cu. ft. of air that you can count during one minute which are 0.5 microns and larger. Same for class 1000, etc. Typical modern cleanrooms at chipmakers are class 100 or class 10. There's even a few *Class 1* cleanrooms around (Dept. of Defense is believed to have had one of the first built several years ago.) Some drive makers have advertised they build their drives in class 100 or class 1000 cleanrooms. That yields excellent quality control in that failure from physical defects is held much lower. Imagine this: I recall once reading that the normal air we breathe, when it is extremely clean and quite clear, has a billion or more particles per cu. ft. larger than 0.5 micron. The number skyrockets when plant pollen, smoke from fires, mold spores and many other particle sources are included. I have allergies to some airborne things and I feel great when I'm working in the cleanroom. Ours tests to less than class 100 though it is designed for 10,000. No wonder I feel better! During a dry winter day, as we walk along, there are literally billions of skin and dust particles shed from our person nearly all of which are too small to see. Imagine such stuff falling in our modern hard drives where the flying height of the heads is in the tens of microns range. This is only one example of the sources of contamination we'd have to watch for in our homemade cleanrooms/cleanbenches. > >Oh yes. I take it "Tobacco for chewing only" goes without saying ;-) Just so the spit from yer chaw ain't blown all over! I guess this turned out to be part of a cleanroom primer after all. Regards, Chris -- -- From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Jul 14 16:06:00 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807142108.VAA24059@cyber2.servtech.com> At 12:23 14-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >> board which I want to identify. >> >> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >> from this system. > >Two 50-pin-headers strongly points towards this board being a Pertec-formatted >tape interface. (like the TC02/TC03). It could also be a communications >multiplexer, like something from the CS series. > >> Anybody need to have more info to help ID this thing? > >There ought to be a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs >that will give the part number and revision level. There is a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs from which this C3987-C came from. This number was listed as a sub-assy number, IIRC. There is a longer number at the top of the sticker. I'll post it tomorrow. There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with "UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. Thanks for the input Tim. Regards, Chris -- -- > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:15:05 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) In-Reply-To: Russ Blakeman "Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT)" (Jul 14, 6:50) References: <3.0.32.19980714001457.006971b4@netpath.net> <35AB45E8.4039C563@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <9807142215.ZM8266@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 6:50, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Use paints that have glue type solvents, ones with toluene, acetone and xylene > that will melt into the finsih below and/or plastic and bond after sanding > with 400 sandpaper, works great. [snip] > After it dries overnight (esp black) clean it down with a sponge and then dry > it off and the excess dust of overspray will be gone, just like a factory > finish. Philips used to supply small runs of OEM monitors which were spray-painted in custom colours, instead of using different coloured plastic. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:09:25 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13, 18:07) References: "J. Buck Caldwell" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 13 13:20) Message-ID: <9807142209.ZM8246@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 13, 18:07, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Here is a question, how do you include terminals? For example I've got a > Tandy WP-2, it's a combo Word Processor, terminal sort of thing, basically > a keyboard with a LCD strip. Would it be a computer, or a terminal. In the list I posted, I included anything that was vaguely a computer, like the Psion and the AgendA, and the Torch, which is really a second processor for a BBC B. I didn't include terminals, such as my VT131, a couple of Cifer terminals, and some Wyse terminals. If the WP-2 runs software, even just a dedicated word processor, I'd probably count it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:12:38 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 14, 12:45) References: <199807141030.MAA25397@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <9807142212.ZM8262@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 12:45, Hans Franke wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus > > B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another > motherboard revision ? The B-plus was a model introduced after the B but before the Master Series. It had a lot of features of the Master 128, but was in a case just like a Model B. The circuit board is completely different, though. Different processor (65C12, IIRC), 64K RAM expandable to 128K, shadow memory and extra modes, etc, and a very different layout. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 14 16:25:52 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: "Max Eskin" "Re: How many computers?" (Jul 14, 10:55) References: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9807142225.ZM8285@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Jul 14, 10:55, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > A question about the Sorcerer: I heard once that it used 8-track tapes. > Is this true, or did they mistake a cartridge for a cassette? No, they used "ROM Pac"s, which consist of a small circuit board with a decoder chip and 4 x 2KB ROMs mounted inside a gutted 8-track tape cartridge. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Jul 14 16:35:27 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, dave dameron wrote: > Speaking of books, > has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, > Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. Yes. You reminded me that I have this book. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From red at bears.org Tue Jul 14 16:57:46 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Why? Since (in theory at least) a sidecar could buffer the bus, it's > possible to add as many devices as you want on the side. Better than the > limited number of slots in most PCs. It just seems thoughtless. As far as the 'limited' number of slots in most PCs go ... well, I won't go there. I'll start ranting. I will say this, though: At this point in the evolution of computers, if you find users of your systems are wanting regularly to add on more than three (or so) cards or sidecar modules, you have drastically misevaluated your target market and deserve to start haemorrhaging market share. IMO. > Firstly they're not (the audio and video outputs are RCA sockets) :-) Those don't count. (: Even the monitor and power supply hookups are BERG strips. Sick. > Yes, you can use a keyboard cable. Plugging it in disables the IR bits, > connects the keyboard electronics to the +5V line (so you don't need > batteries in the keyboard) and links up the data line. I've probably got > the wirelist if you want to make one. Yes, I think that'd be quite useful. If you find it, I'd like the wirelist. Thanks. [battery life] Eh, probably more due to me not drying the membranes completely after I cleaned the keyboard. ok r. From gargor1 at concentric.net Tue Jul 14 16:30:03 1998 From: gargor1 at concentric.net (Garrett Gordon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: yes I would like a list of what is left of the computers Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980714143003.0079e7e0@pop3.concentric.net> My phone number is (408)338-9282. From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 14 16:45:39 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <000a01bdaf70$c0d626e0$9df449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> My girlfriend works for a sign company that does small and large scale signage; including printing out vinyl signs. they can print onto lexan, transparent vinyl, aluminum, etc etc; our project last week was making a tower case out of clear acrylic, and putting some various translucent designs on it (including a very dashing "Linux Powered" logo.) the company is www.fastsigns.com, there are local all over the US and i believe also england. for a full colour case design (they can scan and print any graphic) it's usually about $50 US and then the cost of the materials. most likely under $100. i'll upload some shots of this awesome case once i get my digital camera back from a friend. -Eric >Absolutely! :-) > >I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >colors. :-) > >A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. > >Tom Owad > From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 18:11:44 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714191138.00687b58@netpath.net> Please do. I'd like to see it, but I would rather keep the original case, or an exact or near to it replica in another material. Doug had a good idea with the chrome look, but I think I would have to actually tool a metal case and get it chromed for it to look good, too much money for me, but it would look neat, maybe with some red glowing lights behind the vents ala Terminator. :) Hmmmm. I do have the empty SE/30 case to practice on, but I just got another idea while looking at my mini-tower 233mmx: Cut out one whole side of it, replace with plexiglass or glass panel so I can see all the goodies inside, maybe throw some little 5v LEDs into it to make it purty... I'm getting too many cool ideas here. I need to stop thinking and start putting this in action. At 04:45 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >My girlfriend works for a sign company that does small and large scale >signage; including printing out vinyl signs. they can print onto lexan, >transparent vinyl, aluminum, etc etc; our project last week was making a >tower case out of clear acrylic, and putting some various translucent >designs on it (including a very dashing "Linux Powered" logo.) the company >is www.fastsigns.com, there are local all over the US and i believe also >england. for a full colour case design (they can scan and print any graphic) >it's usually about $50 US and then the cost of the materials. most likely >under $100. i'll upload some shots of this awesome case once i get my >digital camera back from a friend. > >-Eric > > > > >>Absolutely! :-) >> >>I'd certainly be interested in a Mac with a neat paint job. It would >>have to be something interesting, though, after all, even I cold do solid >>colors. :-) >> >>A while back MacAddict gave away some custom painted Power Mac 5100's. >>They weren't very intersting, though, just crazy designs. >> >>Tom Owad >> > > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 18:19:46 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Forward Air - Ship them hunks o' Iron! Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714191941.0068d88c@netpath.net> This is an unofficial page for Forward Air, a company that claims to have very reasonable air freight rates for packages. This page was put together from the perspective of an arcade machine afficianado(sp?), but plenty of info here for all. Just thought I'd pass it on in case someone needs it or hasn't heard of it, or whatever. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 18:20:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980714232009.6460.qmail@hotmail.com> The actual sensor is a sealed unit, just like a transistor or a vacuum tube. You don't even have to tell anybody :) >don't believe the small amount of Am241 in the average smoke detector is >that dangerous if handled carefully, but I can see some people getting >very upset if they found I was stripping down smoke detectors and >modifying them. And I don't need that sort of hassle. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 18:29:46 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: empty rack Message-ID: <19980714232946.2977.qmail@hotmail.com> I found an empty rack today, not sure of the dimensions. It had nothing but rails and a power cord. At the top, it had something like "Camex" in blue letters, I forgot exactly what by the time I got home. Next to the name, it had some kind of snowflake-like emblem. Does anyone in the Boston area want this thing? I will inquire if there is anything more where that came from... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Jul 14 18:23:21 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: just wondering Message-ID: <009801bdaf80$b8c5fe20$4712fea9@mainoffice> Well, I have DOS 1.1 (May, 1982) and Windows 1.03. In fact, I'm in the process of de-compiling DOS 1.1, now. BootSector: done. IBMBIO: 75% done. IBMDOS: not started yet. I'm still looking for DOS 1.0. In fact, I have copies of many true-IBM dos-es (not OEM versions). Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 14 19:10:01 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3f992a2b.35abf35a@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-14 11:45:07 EDT, tony duell put forth: << > BTW, how common are PC-jr machines without floppies? Were most of them > upgraded? >> all pcjr machines came with 128k and one floppy drive. i have seen "second story" units that add another floppy drive. it seems to be there used to be an aftermarket for the jr, but a hot-rodded one still wouldnt be as good as a standard xt though. a popular modification was to bring the machine up to 640k by soldering in some dip chips in the 128k add on sidecar thing. i believe IBM has a file on the www searchfiles page that still tells how to do this. david From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 17:38:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <19980714175527.12886.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 10:55:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/3ff1e529/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 17:52:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467036@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 14, 98 06:41:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/c657496a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 18:01:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <9806149004.AA900467576@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Jul 14, 98 06:51:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/178740fa/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:43:49 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: how many computers? Message-ID: <199807150043.AA19573@world.std.com> Maybe I'll provide my full list in a later message, but for now, you can check my 'home_systems' page off my home page... >> DIGI-COMP 1 (an educational toy from 1963) > >Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >to resurrect the product. I concur... way cool. I remember when I was in fifth grade or so, my father ordered one for me. When he received it, he thought it was too complex and simply put it away. One day I came across it, and before he came home that night I had assembled it and was working on some of the programming examples. I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Tue Jul 14 19:47:42 1998 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35acfb23.15289855@mail.tgis.co.uk> On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:35:58 +0100 (BST), you wrote: >> >> > BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus >> >> B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another >> motherboard revision ? > >No it was a different machine. 64K RAM as standard, I think. > >> >> > Torch Z80 Card x 2 >> >> ?? same here. > >That's a Z80 coprocessor card that fits inside the BBC micro and plugs >into the 'Tube' connector. A pretty simple machine with 64K RAM and a >small ROM containing a CP/M-a-like. There's a host ROM that goes into the >BBC micro. The BBC acts as an intellegent terminal to the CP/M machine. > I have a Torch its a big box 2 5 1/4 drives plugs into the Tube of the BBC and runs msdos about half the speed of a XT ......... From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:53:37 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <199807150053.AA28643@world.std.com> >DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with >PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a >regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a >BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular >than the "designer" panels. I actually have one of those desks (I bought it from DEC Salvage about 12 or so years ago). Yes, the left side had a 19" wide set of standard rails... but there was also a 19" wide set of rails on the right, only accessable from the back. This was a perfect spot for a power controller. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 19:58:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) Message-ID: <199807150058.AA03306@world.std.com> >or blue I don't consider it a "real" computer. When DEC went to the >black racks and purple lettering (hmm, early 70s?) that was too radical >for me, I was glad to see a return to the traditional beige rack. The 19" racks were generally black... there were attachments to the top of them which were different colors. The purple series was indicative of the pdp-11s (which match the time-frame). I've seen them both with beige side-panels and black side-panels... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:01:53 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment Message-ID: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> >A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but >lacks the instructions to do the deed. >Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? Have your friend contact me off-line at work... I may have some RP06 manuals in my collection. Maybe one of them is a maintenance guide which explains it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:06:15 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807150106.AA10383@world.std.com> >Speaking of books, >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. I remember one from years ago which was how to build (and program) a simple computer using paperclips and lights... (and a program 'drum' made out of a coffee can). I think I still have it... is this what you're thinking of? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 14 20:13:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> >There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape >looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's >a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with >"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon >cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and >peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. The BA23 was originally marketed with an 5.25" RD series drive and an RX50 dual 5.25" floppy drive. Later, for the MicroVAX/VaxStationI/II/IIRC system, the RX50 was replaced by a TK50. There was also a configuration with an RX33 instead of either the RX50 or TK50. A TU58 type tape drive sounds very strange for the BA23... maybe it was packaged by someone else? (Would the single TU58 tape drive of a Vax-11/730 be adaptable to the skids of a BA23 drive bay?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 20:19:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715011938.25556.qmail@hotmail.com> If you are removing a head arm and working on it, you can wrap everything but the actual connection in clean plastic. I wouldn't expect smoke particles to magically fall off the arm onto the platter, even if the arm is upside down. Plus, smoke travels upwards, and I would expect little of it to settle if you use a fan or something. As soon as you finish soldering, take it back to the clean box, and put it inside to let it cool off or to reassemble (unless it's still smoking). As for doing activities which involve platters, that's a trickier thing. I have no idea what you would do if you had a problem with the motor or the axle on which the platters are mounted. Now, my question. Let's say a single head crashes. This would raise up some dust off the platter, right? Would it be possible to recover the material that wasn't destroyed by the dragging head? What if this deformed the platter? >Serious question. What do you do if you need to resolder a head >connection or something? Do you remove the head assembly from the clean >box, solder it, clean if off with IPA, put it back in the clean box and >reassemble or what? I can't believe you want flux smoke in the HDA. > >> Philip. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 19:42:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807142040.NAA13222@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 14, 98 01:40:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/74414d2c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:01:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Jul 14, 98 05:57:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2873 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/37e34d42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:03:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980714232009.6460.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 04:20:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/d6b934c7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:05:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <3f992a2b.35abf35a@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Jul 14, 98 08:10:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/0a346ac8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:37:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <35acfb23.15289855@mail.tgis.co.uk> from "Christopher Denham" at Jul 15, 98 00:47:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 912 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/741c8cde/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 14 20:42:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <19980715011938.25556.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Jul 14, 98 06:19:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1478 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/5868a92e/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Jul 14 21:50:53 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 09:13:31 pm Message-ID: <9807150150.AA08717@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 873 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980714/42f4d29e/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Tue Jul 14 20:06:12 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <001301bdaf8c$c5ed7e00$97f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> well, I personally have never opened up a hard drive, if nothing else because I've never had an extra to pop open (i'm too frugal. hehe.) Regardless, I have found the program "Spinrite" to work great on IDE drives; it goes through and can fix bad sectors, or mark them totally unusable. this really differs from standard formats/etc, because I've been able to take drives w/ 30mb of bad sectors and get it to 0 bad sectors, and still running fine w/ no problems after a year. i believe they are on version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. -Eric From kyrrin at jps.net Tue Jul 14 21:16:26 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Yes, I have returned. Lord Almighty, what a haul!! I can say with confidence that I definitely tested the maximum load specs for the (rented) Ford Windstar minivan. Every time I went over a good bump, the rear springs -almost- bottomed out. I'll be updating my web page soon with the gory details. Suffice to say I've got more than enough to keep me going, project-wise, well into next year. Among the more 'classic' items in the haul were a Kennedy 9100 tape drive installed in a nice 5-foot DEC rack, and a box full of 9-track tapes containing mostly DECUS RT-11 SIG libraries. Tony, I know you'll get a kick out of this. I also got hold of another 11/44 CPU box, loaded with cards (including a Unibus UDA50 disk controller). Between that one and my current unit, I should be able to get the power supply going AND fix the broken one for a spare! Since I'm not heavily into RT-11 (yet), I'd like to offer the RT-11 SIG tapes to whoever's interested and willing to pay shipping. There's about six or so, maybe a couple more. And would you believe I'm already planning next year's run? I know I'll see at least some of you at VCF in another couple of months. Until then... Banzai! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 22:21:35 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714231755.00686ba8@netpath.net> At 01:42 AM 7/15/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >My rule is that if it's possible to get a user program in there, it's a >computer. Yes there are marginal cases, but who cares. This is not a 'who's >got the most computers' competition, now is it? It's not??? Dang! I thought I was a shoe in for mister congeneality!!! :) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Jul 14 22:28:16 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980714232709.0068b374@netpath.net> I'll bring it back on topic: Spinrite is some powerful hoodoo. I used it alot on Seagate ST-225 drives. I'm never one to use any questionable sectors though: Some of those drives had less than 10mb when I was through with them. I don't trust iffy sectors. At 08:06 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and >doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 >drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Tue Jul 14 22:25:25 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in Europe? -- Doug From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 14 23:13:42 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: **** snip **** > A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is > built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the **** and again **** Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 14 23:17:55 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery References: <3.0.32.19980714232709.0068b374@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35AC2D73.E67E9EF3@rain.org> John Higginbotham wrote: > > I'll bring it back on topic: Spinrite is some powerful hoodoo. I used > it > alot on Seagate ST-225 drives. I'm never one to use any questionable > sectors though: Some of those drives had less than 10mb when I was > through > with them. I don't trust iffy sectors. I've used Spinrite since it first came out, and have found it to be the best software for maintaining and sometimes fixing hard drives. I was called in a number of years ago to try and recover the data from a HD that was in the process of crashing and losing everything. Since it was handy, I tried the Norton NDD (?) software to recover the data that was unreadable. Of the four lost files, it destroyed the first three. By that time, I gave up and invoked Spinrite. It recoverd the data effortlessly (although it did take a bit of time :) .) Recently, a friend brought over his HD to see what was going on with it. I ran ScanDisk thinking it would be fairly safe. No such luck, and again, a bunch of data got destroyed. Sometime after that, I acquired the current version of Spinrite and tried it on the drive. It instantly complained that the drive and the drive settings differed along with a few other tips. Turned out that LBA somehow got turned off in the BIOS and thus corrupted the disk. I truely hate the brain-damaged program ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few hundred drives I have worked on. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 14 23:18:01 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:25:25 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199807150418.VAA07542@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in Europe? Hmm. How about the Heinz Nixdorf Museumforum somewhere near Paderborn in Germany? I have brochures (somewhat dated), or you can check out their web site (which, last I looked, was mostly in German) at http://www.hnf.de/ . Never been there myself, but it's on my list if I ever get around to a European Tour. -Frank McConnell From sinasohn at mail.crl.com Tue Jul 14 23:49:51 1998 From: sinasohn at mail.crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: fwd: atari 800 (Sacramento, CA) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980714132315.3c3f8ce4@mail.crl.com> Please contact Mr. Woo directly if interested... >From: K W >Subject: atari 800 >To: sinasohn@crl.com > >Mr. Sinasohn, > >I've got an Atari 800 computer that I want to get rid of, and I'd >rather give it away than throw it in the trash. It's still in great >condition, with a drive, tape recorder, joysticks, etc. Would anyone >in ABACUS be interested? > >There is a catch though: it's in Sacramento. I've emailed the Sacto >groups, with no response yet. If there's someone in ABACUS who makes >regular trips to Sacto, and would like to have it, I'd be willing to >hold it. > > >Kevin Woo >wookm@yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From cad at gamewood.net Tue Jul 14 23:48:40 1998 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:16 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <35AC34A8.6A35@gamewood.net> My wife says, 'Too many!!' A Sphere, Astral 2000, M&R sbc, Dragon, several CoCo's, Eagle 1600, enough spares for a Leading Edge model 2, XEROX 860IPS,Unisys Personal Workstation Series 850 (marginal timewise). Chuck -- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 01:37:41 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980714233741.00e644b0@mail.wa.jps.net> The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, folks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Jul 15 02:16:13 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807150716.AAA10500@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Megan and all, At 09:06 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>Speaking of books, >>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt, >>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. > >I remember one from years ago which was how to build (and program) >a simple computer using paperclips and lights... (and a program >'drum' made out of a coffee can). I think I still have it... is this >what you're thinking of? That sounds like another one I don't have, but read through an interlibrary loan: "How to build a working Digital Computer", by E. Alcosser, Hayden, 1964. It used a bunch of ganged switches to make a 4 bit adder. Can you look, anyway? Thanks, You also wrote: >>Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never >>owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional >>letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest >>to resurrect the product. >I concur... way cool. I remember when I was in fifth grade or so, my >father ordered one for me. When he received it, he thought it was too >complex and simply put it away. One day I came across it, and before >he came home that night I had assembled it and was working on some of >the programming examples. > >I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years >ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Sounds like you had fun! The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but if you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as required. That's the kind of thing I might do... -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 02:59:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: This is totally off-topic but this is the kind of thing you all can appreciate, and it may even help some of you. For the last several months I have constantly been spammed by what can be described as Son-of-Spamford. There's some spam e-mail software marketing company in Los Angeles that sends out millions of these messages I guess. They use web crawlers that steal e-mail addresses from web pages. They then send out this spam letter with forged headers and false return addresses. Very annoying. However, they do include a phone number and address at the end of the spam. Interesting. I've included the message at the end of this message so you can see if you've been spammed by these assholes as well. I was so incensed at one point that I was almost going to buy a plane ticket, fly down to L.A. with a box full of this spam e-mail printed out, kick the door open to the office that these guys are in, find the president of this "company", beat the shit out of him (or pimp-slap her), then start shoving the printouts down this person's throat (yes, this is rather violent :) But I soon figured out that the address was merely a private mailbox, and the phone number rings into a voicemail box. Hmmm. Well, I have the resources to find out where this number rings in to, possibly track down the service provider, but then what? Then I realized, "Hey, I have a PBX, a T-1 and a voicemail system with 16 ports...its time to have some fun." Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing "spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for each call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't stop coming. The last I checked the Spaminator had played over 100 spam tunes into their voicemail box. I am ecstatic. The Spaminator will continue to run over night. Tomorrow morning I will check its progress (it keeps a log of all tunes it plays so I know how many it did). If anyone is interested in utilizing the Spaminator for spaminating other egregious spammers, let me know. I can easily program it to simultaneously call out to other phone numbers and sing a symphony of spam for them as well. I hope that my simple solution brings some manner of grief to these idiots, whoever they are. Ideally it will give them more anguish than their constant barrage of spam has brought me. I will not relent. My next step is to try and track down the actual owners of this "business", try to find out their other phone numbers (preferrably home numbers) and unleash the Spaminator on those numbers as well. Thanks for letting me vent. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:16:46 -0700 From: "***Bull*sEye)*" <33rq2w@att.net> To: vcoffey@bu.edu Authenticated sender is <33rq2w@att.net> Subject: ++BullsEye-*Targeting*Software*)+ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. 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From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 03:28:38 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and trying to shutdown the relays. I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is to include your email address as the return address in their forged headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. -- Doug From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Wed Jul 15 10:10:10 1998 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required Message-ID: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late eighties which fit into PCs. Whilst I can use any one single board, I've been unable to install more than one board as I've no information on the jumper and dip switch settings. Of course, some boards may not be capable of being anything other than the root transputer. Anyone have, or know where I can find such information on the following boards: Transtech TMB04 Sundance ST101 Gemini GM8101 Microway Monoputer2 Thanks, Doug. From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:26:33 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151001.CAA21831@next.ireadyco.com> I looked around at what's in sight... NeXT Color Turbo Station Sparcstation 5 Some boring peecees (incl a Linux box) A Mac IIx An Apple IIc Trs-80 Model 4P Trs-80 Model 16B w/ 8 megabyte HD and 12" floppies Trs-80 Model I w/ Expansion Interface/printer Trs-80 Model 100 NEC PC8201a Trs-80 PC-2 Kaypro 2000 Oh yeah... an HP 9825 from the mid-70's [w/ one-line display] Oddly most of these I never owned new. Of all of them the NeXT machine is still by far the most useful / least painful. The Trs-80 Model 16B is the most unique in my eye. I was annoyed by it at first but it was free and gradually began to like it. It's currently running CP/M but I'd like to get the HD back up and run Xenix. The software that came with it made it more interesting... as this stuff was untouchable [expensive] when it was new. Thomas From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:29:17 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. Just curious... I just like the concept... Perhaps they should have used the slogan... "Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!" Or perhaps not... Thomas From thomas100 at home.com Wed Jul 15 01:34:09 1998 From: thomas100 at home.com (Thomas Pfaff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) Message-ID: <199807151009.CAA21841@next.ireadyco.com> I had a friend who turned an Atari 800 into a planter. After that, I inherited it for awhile- it still worked. He had spray painted tho' it so I elected not to hold onto it. What always amazed me was this huge aluminum casting at the center of the machine where you inserted the BASIC and game cartridges. That casting must have added significant cost to manufacturing the machine! Hope someone grabs it... they're kinda neat. Thomas From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 07:33:27 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151019.MAA04616@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>> BBC Microcomputer Model B-plus >> B-plus ? Never heard of it or is this jus another >> motherboard revision ? > No it was a different machine. 64K RAM as standard, I think. Do you know a picture in the web ? (Haven't found any). >>> Torch Z80 Card x 2 >> ?? same here. > That's a Z80 coprocessor card that fits inside the BBC micro and plugs > into the 'Tube' connector. A pretty simple machine with 64K RAM and a > small ROM containing a CP/M-a-like. There's a host ROM that goes into the > BBC micro. The BBC acts as an intellegent terminal to the CP/M machine. Ahh ja - hanks, I own 2 BBC Mod B but almost no documentation (and no extensions other than floppys). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 05:46:20 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: <85080A390F@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote: > I've a number of Transputer boards dating from the late eighties which > fit into PCs. Whilst I can use any one single board, I've been unable to > install more than one board as I've no information on the jumper and dip > switch settings. Of course, some boards may not be capable of being > anything other than the root transputer. Anyone have, or know where I > can find such information on the following boards: > > Transtech TMB04 > Sundance ST101 > Gemini GM8101 > Microway Monoputer2 I've got a bunch of documentation and software for the T800 board. I think most third-parties tried to be somewhat compatible with the boards from inmos. I'll try to dig them out. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 05:47:41 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote: > Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee > but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest > computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 > PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. I e-bumped into a guy who knows *all* about MAD. I've captured some of his knowledge for posterity: http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ -- Doug From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 15 06:13:44 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Atari 800 (was free atari in Sacremento) Message-ID: <54ab9120.35ac8ee9@aol.com> In a message dated 98-07-15 05:19:21 EDT, thomas pfaff put forth: << What always amazed me was this huge aluminum casting at the center of the machine where you inserted the BASIC and game cartridges. That casting must have added significant cost to manufacturing the >> well, my atari 400 is the same way. ive never seen a computer with so much metal in it like that. perhaps it was for emissions issues? the 400 had that dreadful keypad too so i can imagine even the best typist could only type about 1-2cps. david From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 06:54:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes Message-ID: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> > The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave >Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, >folks! Any chance someone could determine if there are any sig tapes among the stack which aren't currently available from any of the pdp-11 archives and make sure the archives get a copy? (Tim Shoppa?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 06:59:01 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151159.AA00115@world.std.com> >That sounds like another one I don't have, but read through an >interlibrary loan: "How to build a working Digital Computer", by E. >Alcosser, Hayden, 1964. It used a bunch of ganged switches to make a 4 >bit adder. Can you look, anyway? I will look for it... I also have an old book called 'Star Ship Simulation' published by Dilithium Press... >Sounds like you had fun! Sure did... >The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various >colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but >if you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you >recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as >required. Yes, it was made out of colored plastic shapes... with a few shaped metal rods and a number of what amounted to 1/2" (If I remember) sections of plastic straws which were used to do the actual programming. The documentation shows the parts, but not to scale... if I had a real one, I'd try to duplicate the parts... I remember the follow-on unit, the DigicompII, was not so much a computer as it was a game of Nim... I got that one as well, but I preferred the DigicompI Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 09:10:52 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: European Tour Message-ID: <199807151157.NAA13044@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each > in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops > along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage > portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in > Europe? Hmm, couldn't you be a bit more specific ? A few days in Germany is like saying 'visiting Alaska and BC and maybe some days on the West Coast' ... Oh Boy, Germany is more than 700 miles 'high' and up to 500 'wide' (nowadays:). Ok, for historic nerds there are at least 3 main places: - Museum fur Verkehr und Technik in Berlin - here you can find (beside a small display) a _complete_ replica of the Zuse Z1 computer - the first computer - and all mechanical :) - The Heinz Nixdorf Museum in Paderborn (a small city middle of nowhere) - They have a real comprehensive display. The single largest in Germany. A lot of small systems from the 70's - Of course since this museum started out as a company nuseum of Nixdorf. - The Deutsches Museum in Munich - THE science museum - I think #1 worldwide - the only thing coming close anyhwere might be the Smithonian Collections. A museum about almost anything. Also including a small Computer display - some 12,000 sqft. They have things like Zuse Z3 replika, Z22, Siemens 2002, PERM, IBM 360/20, TR4, Mark 1...realy impressiv. Althrough I think the modern part is a bit .. hmm .. lets say more like a junk yard - only a PC and a PET hidden in a sidecase and other random parts ... :( - They (the Deutsches Museum) opened a subsidary in Bonn some time ago (Kohl wanted to have such things in hs 'capitol' city :) - But this museum is nice, and well done, but more political/modern historical orientated - only 3 pices are special computer orientated: parts of a Z23 computer (afair the drum), some boxes of the SUPRENUM Project, and a 1 meg chip from VEB Forschungszentrum Mikroelektronik Dresden - the last East German high tech product - they almost ruined their industry - any research money available and a lot more was spend for this development. Beside these, maybe the RWTH in Aaachen (Aachen university) could be an interesting place - they have a small display of big old stuff ... Aachen, Bonn and Paderborn might be close enough to the westen border (Begique/Holland). Oh yes, and maybe send Stefan Walgenbach a mail - he is building the HCM (Home Computer Museum) in Oberhausen, thats just 60km east of the Dutch border. Maybe he invites you to see his collection of classic 80's small and home- computers - he has a big heap of european (English, French and German) home computers. Some hints about your planned tour would help. And if you come to Munich (Deutsches Museum) I would be glad to show you the museum, the city and bragg with my collection :) Servus H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 06:58:11 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: DigiComp (was Re: how many computers?) In-Reply-To: <199807150716.AAA10500@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Jul 15, 98 00:16:13 am Message-ID: <199807151158.HAA07495@user2.infinet.com> Re: DigiComp People who's names are lost to time wrote: > >>Way cool. I had access to one in high school, to play with, but I never > >>owned one. I've written to Edmund Scientific. They get the occasional > >>letter inquiring about the DigiComp 1, but so far, not enough interest > >>to resurrect the product. > >I have a set of documentation for it (sent to me by someone a few years > >ago) and I would LOVE to get one for my collection... Docs are available at http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ > Sounds like you had fun! > The picture in the Edmund catalog looked like it was made from various > colored shapes of flat plastic. I know it wouldn't be quite the same, but if > you have the documentation and once had your hands on one, could you > recreate it from mat board and an exacto knife? Or some plastic as required. > That's the kind of thing > I might do... > -Dave It's molded plastic, but not quite as simple as cut sheet. Also, the clocking is propagated by bent metal rods. I remember having to fashion a replacement rod that resembled a squared-off question mark (lower right side of rear view on page 3 (http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/p4.gif)) I suppose that if you had one example of all the parts, you could manufacture replacements, but having used one myself, the tolerances would have to be in the vicinity of one or two 18 gauge wire diameters or else the logic would be too sloppy. If I were going to build one for myself from scratch, I'd probably try to make one out of aluminum and grease it with graphite. I don't know if anybody out there has every worked with die-cut cardboard, but it might be possible to set up a jig to stamp them out of thick (~1 mm) fine-grained shirt cardboard. To make a die-cut jig, you stick strategically placed razor blades in a block of hardwood, and at the corners, you glue down small (~1 cm2) foam pads to help clear the product out when you release the pressure. It would be easy to check for tolerance - the real plastic part should fit neatly into the outline, but not fall down between the blades (resting just inside the cutting edge) I don't guarantee weeks and weeks of use with a cardboard DigiComp unless you soak at least the clock end in some sort of epoxy or adhesive to plasticise it. I, however, do not have a DigiComp to replicate. Anybody else? Disclaimer: I'm not a mechanical engineer, just an amateur woodworker. Take these hints and observation as the free advice they are. -ethan From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 07:02:11 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> >Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw >together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the >offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut >thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing >"spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. >Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such slime would resort to it...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 15 07:20:21 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment In-Reply-To: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 09:01:53 pm Message-ID: <199807151220.IAA28841@shell.monmouth.com> > > > >A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but > >lacks the instructions to do the deed. > >Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how? > > Have your friend contact me off-line at work... I may have some RP06 > manuals in my collection. Maybe one of them is a maintenance guide > which explains it... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > It's a bit tricky without the Perch tester -- but it can be done. The trick is "windage" -- the top heads and bottom heads tend to float differently with the wind tunnel open. I seem to remember having the top heads floating -20 on the meter, the bottom +20 and then the stuff would drop in on line with the windtunnel closed. Give me a call if I can be of any help. I've never done 'em without the tester, but I think an analog multimeter may work. Bill From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Jul 15 07:28:43 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Question on DEC file formats In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 14, 98 06:31:14 pm Message-ID: <199807151228.IAA03007@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > > > > < > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive? > > < > > > < > Yes. > > < > > < I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work. > > > > Bill, you just got the good memory award. ;) > > Were hard disk packs interchangable between any different DEC drives? I > know that RK02 and RK05, RL01 and RL02, RK06 and RK07 packs didn't > interchange. > > > > > Allison > > > > > > -tony > > For the history books: RM02/RM03 (same drive, different spindle speed) RP04/RP05 (different mfg. RP05 (Memorex) was a half-density RP06 designed as a replacement for ISS-Sperry RP04's. The ones at DEC training in RP05/6 class were prototypes labeled RP04-II RK03 and RK05 did I believe (RK03 being a Diablo drive. RK05 was DEC's replacement) RX01/RX02 of course Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 07:58:06 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <199807150053.AA28643@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 14, 98 08:53:37 pm Message-ID: <199807151258.IAA08448@user2.infinet.com> > > > >DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > >PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a > >regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a > >BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular > >than the "designer" panels. > > I actually have one of those desks (I bought it from DEC Salvage about > 12 or so years ago). Yes, the left side had a 19" wide set of standard > rails... but there was also a 19" wide set of rails on the right, only > accessable from the back. This was a perfect spot for a power > controller. I, too, have one of these desks. A PDP-8/a fits in that shallow set of rails, but it's a bitch to install/deinstall because of the fans on the outside of the CPU chassis. It's worth it, because you can have an -8 with RX02 and RL01 all in one place, a recessed well for a VT52, *and* on the front, a working power switch (to a DEC power controller) and boot switch (to the DKC8-A?) When I was in college, I had mine set up thusly in the living room. Mind you, even in the mid-80's it elicited comment from visitors. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 08:37:20 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <009801bdaf80$b8c5fe20$4712fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 14, 98 07:23:21 pm Message-ID: <199807151337.JAA08933@user2.infinet.com> > > Well, I have DOS 1.1 (May, 1982) and Windows 1.03. In fact, I'm in the > process of de-compiling DOS 1.1, now. BootSector: done. IBMBIO: 75% done. > IBMDOS: not started yet. > > I'm still looking for DOS 1.0. In fact, I have copies of many true-IBM > dos-es (not OEM versions). I may be able to help... I worked for a company in the early '80's, Bruce and James. They wrote a program for the PC called WordVision, intended to be the first of what we now call an office suite. It required 96K of RAM, a floppy disk and DOS 1.0 or higher. The install disk was, IIRC, DOS 1.0. The only hitch is that it's copy protected. You had to boot the original floppy and run an installation program to make slave disks. You could then copy the application from the slave disks to other diskettes or a hard drive. If only the program didn't use a cycle-counting key repeat loop, it'd still work on newer hardware. If teledisk or some such can package up the disk image, I can see about making it available for such a worthy project. I wanted to dig through the disk anyway, to look for the oft-discussed Digital Research strings. It's not a full DOS 1.0 kit, but it is the bootsector, IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS. Let me know if you are interested. -ethan From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 09:39:45 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 15, 98 07:54:36 am Message-ID: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/fdda2e2f/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:50:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151350.AA11089@world.std.com> < Interesting peripherals from late 1970's when I was going a lot. < 1. SWTP CT-1024 modified for 64 columns and graphics. Hope to get this < working again with some computer. I have one of those operation with the same mod! All of my collection I listed are tested operational systems. The unique boards I've built for my own use are not listed nor are some of the inop stuff salvaged for parts. I also didn't list the parts supply as that would need a T1 link to get though reasonably. I have a lot of OLD parts that were new purchase at one time! ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:50:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151350.AA11232@world.std.com> < Alright for some :-). Alas most of us don't have access to a clean room. < Even if I was working at a place which had one, I can't believe they'd be < too happy if I wandered in with an HDA and started stripping it. Majorly true. I worked in pharmaceuticals and though they didn't use super clean rooms (class 10,000 worst case) the equipment was under a laminar airflow curtain with a flow of 100 linear feet per minute and the air under there was class 100. The air flow was obvious ly of the the machine then into the room where super clean was less important. < I would have thought looking for backscattered light would be more < sensitive and easier to set up. Still not sensitive enough for a clean < box, of course (in this form). The air flow and the sensing area cross section are important. Using a light source like a laser is helpful in getting the backscatter brighter. This is the problem of how many Angeles can dance on the end of a pin. You build a clean box and use a good HEPA filter. With 100-200cfm of incomming clean air once the dust in the box has been blown out it will be clean especially if gloved hands are the only thing inside. I'e heard a lot of "good luck", "it will not last" and "too dirty" from those that haven't. I've done it, when RD53s and 54s were in desperately short supply here and it does work without the clean box with some care. Obvious tricks like wearing nylon gloves to avoid finger prints, a canister of dry air to blow things off and keeping the unit covered when possible all reduce risk. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:51:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module Message-ID: <199807151351.AA11730@world.std.com> < >a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with < >"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon < >cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and < >peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. My guess the tape is not tu58 but a DC100/300/600 series tape. There wasn't a tu58 that mounted to a 5.25hole unless it was a hack. Also TU58 is easy to recognize as the drives are bare (no electornics) and the use a board that is roughly 5x10" with serial interface to the host. Also TU58 was a dual drive system though it could be configured with only one. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:51:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151351.AA11945@world.std.com> < Now, my question. Let's say a single head crashes. This would raise up < some dust off the platter, right? Would it be possible to recover the < material that wasn't destroyed by the dragging head? What if this < deformed the platter? Head crashes are always bad. What generally happens for 5" and 3.5" winis is the head is ripped off the mount, slammed against the wall and shattered. the free arm gouges the platter badly. the metal dust from the grinding gets into the rest of the heads and it cascades. If shut down when the head first goes the platter will be shot. Repair would be trying to get head and arm assembly, another drive to get a good platter from. Then there is the problem of disassembleing the platter drive assy as many are "glued and screwed" and maintaining tolerances on assembly. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 08:52:24 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151352.AA12420@world.std.com> < I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty < < Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. < Sam, If traced back to you, the action you've taken is covered by law so you could be at risk. I agree that bunch is a problem as are the earthlink sex girls that are apparently not anywhere from earthlink. Allison From erd at infinet.com Wed Jul 15 09:08:12 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Painting Macs (was: fake next) In-Reply-To: <199807142032.NAA20254@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Jul 14, 98 01:32:19 pm Message-ID: <199807151408.KAA09692@user2.infinet.com> > > > DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with > > PDP-8s used for small business office applications... Shawn Rutledge writes: > I have one of these at home. It has a lowered part of the desktop for the > monitor. I got it at ASU surplus but it was empty except for a power > controller (there are switches right below the desktop on the right side of > the rack part, and one of them controls the power controller, but I'm not > sure what the other is for.) Rebooting the PDP-8/a. -ethan From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 15 09:11:38 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980715091138.00bf63c0@pc> At 06:39 AM 7/15/98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: > >Gees, I feel kind of left out. I've been maintaining the RT-11 sig tapes >for most of a decade now, and when somebody finds a pile nobody thinks >about asking me. I think they will now. >(I have nightmares about the only remaining >copy of the Fall 77 tape being chewed up by a person who throws it >on a 9-track drive without taking all the precautions....!) One of the sections of my web page is devoted to preserving the history of the UCSD P-System. According to Ken Bowles, head of the project, he kept source disks to all releases for versions III and IV in storage for about fifteen years, then he decided they were useless and that the world had no interest in them, so he threw them out. A few years after that, he started receiving inquiries about that source. By that time, any of the subsequent licensees of the P-System and UCSD Pascal no longer had any copies of that source, either. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Jul 15 11:20:51 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <6525@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199807151425.JAA31760@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an 80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although I don't recall the clock speed). The Powersupply and floppy drives were in one unit, and the CPU was in another. It had a CGA compatible display adaptor. It also had what appeared to be an ISA bus, but most stock PeeCee cards would cause problems. I hacked this one by adding an 8-bit Hard disk controller, and disabling the HDC bios ROM. There was support for the HDC in the MAD-186 ROM, but the harddisk was not a standard option (AFAIK). I think this is the only computer I ever destroyed on purpose, and out of spite, no less. When we bought our 1st '286, my wife urged me to give the MAD to her brother. I really should have resisted, because the thing became a support nightmare. "Can I put a joystick on this?" "Uhh, whats an 'ERROR TRAP'?" "Uhh, RatRacer keeps locking up, can you fix this?" The computer got passed around the family, and I finally ended up with it about three years ago, when it was summarily smashed into little pieces-- retribution for countless sleepless nights when I had to play 'Tech Support'. I had been driven to the edge of MADness. Needless to say I wasn't into CLASSICS yet. I DID save the part with the PS and flopy disk drives, though . . . Jeff At 11:29 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee >but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest >computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 >PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. > >Just curious... I just like the concept... >Perhaps they should have used the slogan... > >"Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!" > >Or perhaps not... > >Thomas > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 09:24:17 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <199807151432.KAA20376@charity.harvard.net> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:14 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > > > > > Actually, there is a little known difference on the power > supply board > > between a beige Mac plus and a Platinum Mac Plus. Just a > diode but boy > > Were they both Capetronics designs? The one in my Mac+ (is > there an easy > way to tell them apart when it's been dicoloured by sunlight...) is. > > Where is the diode connected between, and which version has it? > I really dont remember where it is. This was back in 1988 or so :) Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 15 09:39:29 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer In-Reply-To: <199807151004.CAA21837@next.ireadyco.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee MAD = Magnetic Anomoly Detector Or in other words it's used in Anti-Submarine Warfare. (Sorry couldn't resist, yes I realize in this case this isn't what you meant.) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 09:44:25 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <9807151339.AA23051@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199807151154.AA27632@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 06:39 15-07-98 -0800, you wrote: >> > The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave >> >Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks, >> >folks! >> >> Any chance someone could determine if there are any sig tapes among the >> stack which aren't currently available from any of the pdp-11 archives >> and make sure the archives get a copy? (Tim Shoppa?) > >Gees, I feel kind of left out. I've been maintaining the RT-11 sig tapes >for most of a decade now, and when somebody finds a pile nobody thinks >about asking me. <> Tim, I deeply apologize. Not being heavily into RT11, I didn't know you were maintaining the tape archive. I've not sent them off yet, and I think I will not until I know for sure what's not in the archive. I've already discovered one (1986 Fall, San Francisco) that's not, so I will copy it and send it your way. What's your postal address? The others all seem to be listed, but none of the block counts shown on the list match with those on the tapes. In just about every case, the tape shows either 4-10 blocks less, or at least twice what's shown in the list. Can someone enlighten me as to why this may be so? Anyway... John, if you're reading this, be patient! I'll get them to you via separate box if need be. It looks like I may need to run some copies for the archives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 12:05:54 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151452.QAA27933@marina.fth.sbs.de> > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > trying to shutdown the relays. > I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty > high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is > to include your email address as the return address in their forged > headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. > Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. Thats one thing I realy like about the German laws - spamming via any kind of personal device is forbidden - no fax-spam, no telex spam and no e-mail spam. Spaming is considered stealing your property, since the spammer uses your fax paper and your power line to print his message, and/or your time to check and delete spam. And theft is just unlawful :) After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country like senseless US-Spamm :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 15 09:59:11 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Thanks, Marty From kyrrin at jps.net Wed Jul 15 10:06:12 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA In-Reply-To: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980715080612.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 10:59 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Good Lord... unless I miss my guess, that's from a System/390 mainframe! Let me guess... dual head positioners on either side, yes? And big connectors with about a zillion pins? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From poesie at geocities.com Wed Jul 15 09:19:33 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <004301bdaffb$9b29c560$a8f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Speaking of, does *67 cost? I've been up to the same pranks as Sam, w/ a local "mass marketer." I vaguely recalled it being a feature that cost nothing, but I never was sure. Sorry to keep this thread going, as humourous as it is :) -Eric >Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to >disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, >they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such >slime would resort to it...) > > Megan Gentry From kevan at heydon.org Wed Jul 15 10:18:52 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807151432.KAA20376@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: The list of machines I have is: ACT Apricot Acorn Atom, BBC Micro, Cambridge Workstation, Electron, System 5 Amstrad CPC 464, CPC 6128, CPC 664 Apollo DN3000 Apple II+, Lisa 2, Mac SE Atari 400, 800, 800XL Bondwell Model 2 CGL M5 Cambridge Computer Cambridge Z88 Camputers Lynx Casio PB-100 Commodore CBM 3032, CBM 8032-SK, CBM 8096, VIC-20, plus/4 Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie, Video Genie EG3003 Epson HX-20 Exidy Sorcerer HP 85, 9000/217 IBM PC (5150) Jupiter Ace Matra Alice, Alice 90 Mattel Aquarius Memotech MTX 512, RS 128 Nascom 2 Oric 1, Atmos Osborne 1 Radio Shack Color Computer, TRS-80 Model 1, TRS-80 Model 3 Research Machines RM Link 480Z SMS 1000 Sage II & IV Science Of Cambridge MK 14 Sharp MZ-711, MZ-80K Sinclair QL, Spectrum, Spectrum+, ZX Spectrum +2, ZX Spectrum +2A, ZX Spectrum +3, ZX80, ZX81 Sun 4/110 TI TI-99/4A Tatung Einstein Thomson M05 Toshiba HX-10, T1000SE This list is taken from a database which is getting a little out of date and some things have never made it into the system, so to add to this list there are these too: Torch Triple X, Torch C Series, Another couple of Thompson M0X machines, Apple Portable, Dec Rainbow, Sun 2/120, Whitechapel MG1 I also collect calculators, video game consoles, and handheld games but I won't list them here. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 11:20:29 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RT11 SIG tapes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980715074425.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 15, 98 07:44:25 am Message-ID: <9807151520.AA25279@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1978 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/921633f0/attachment.ksh From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 12:36:27 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151522.RAA29934@marina.fth.sbs.de> > On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote: >> Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee >> but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest >> computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386 >> PC running at a whopping 16 mhz. > I e-bumped into a guy who knows *all* about MAD. I've captured some of > his knowledge for posterity: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ Thanks Doug. Now I know - I have to have a MAD1 - I _must_ have any 80186/88 system ever build - just a obsession - maybe because I like the PC-D a lot .) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 11:42:02 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Jul 15, 98 08:02:11 am Message-ID: <9807151542.AA24719@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/3d53ead1/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 11:15:05 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <199807142049.UAA23498@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151617.QAA22618@cyber2.servtech.com> At 21:13 14-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > >**** snip **** > >> A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is >> built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the > >**** and again **** > >Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? OOOPS!! No, Don, I just slipped a gear! I was tired and my hunt-and-peck typing gets more lousy than normal and my visual spell check fails. Sorry, it's of course 99.97% Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:19:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? Message-ID: <19980715161909.20889.qmail@hotmail.com> Let me tell you why one of my keyboards now has an 'enter' key with the corner smashed off by a hammer: the damn Packard Bell with all integrated serial ports, hard disk controller, etc. wouldn't let me set my modem up on COM2 or COM4. Plus, this took very long to verify because the hard disk controller makes the IDE act like a C= 1541. >> I will say this, though: At this point in the evolution of computers, if >> you find users of your systems are wanting regularly to add on more than >> three (or so) cards or sidecar modules, you have drastically misevaluated >> your target market and deserve to start haemorrhaging market share. IMO. > >No way!. Maybe for the average consumer PC (build the disk controllers, >serial/parallel ports, etc into the motherboard), but in my case I'll >want all sorts of strange special-purpose cards (user I/O, ADC, I2C, >special disk controllers, etc, etc, etc). > >I've managed to fill the 14 slots in a PC/XT+expansion chassis and still >wanted more!. BTW, is it possible to build one of those? How does it work? >> Those don't count. (: Even the monitor and power supply hookups are BERG >> strips. Sick. What is a BERG strip? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:23:30 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715162330.18644.qmail@hotmail.com> I'm not sure what that means, but I assume that the servo surface contains a sort of coordinate system that the servo head reads and thus guides the other heads. If that assumption is correct, why isn't it possible to realign the thing with another servo platter? >Of course if it's a drive with a separate servo surface and the servo >head is the one that's crashed then you lose everything. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:27:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715162738.23719.qmail@hotmail.com> Spinrite is most famous for low-level formatting, which is only allowed on old MFM drives, most IDE drives have a sticker that says "Do not low-level format this drive". When I used a Model D with a hardcard, I loved this program. I ran it twice a day because I had nothing else to do :) As for bad sectors, what's up with that? Why is it that sometimes a bad sector will be marked bad, then I can format a drive and have it use those 'bad sectors' just fine? > > well, I personally have never opened up a hard drive, if nothing else >because I've never had an extra to pop open (i'm too frugal. hehe.) > > Regardless, I have found the program "Spinrite" to work great on IDE >drives; it goes through and can fix bad sectors, or mark them totally >unusable. this really differs from standard formats/etc, because I've been >able to take drives w/ 30mb of bad sectors and get it to 0 bad sectors, and >still running fine w/ no problems after a year. i believe they are on >version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of off-topic and >doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of 100 >drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of them. > > >-Eric > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 15 11:35:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: RP06 alignment In-Reply-To: <199807150101.AA06498@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13371884597.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Have your friend] Oh, you mean call from Sweeden? (The "friend" is Anders Magnesson, port maintainer for NetBSD/vax) ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:37:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <19980715163702.12116.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone have an old copy of Spinrite or know of a place where I could get it? How much does the latest one go for? >I truely hate the brain-damaged program >ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have >known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a >problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few hundred >drives I have worked on. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Jul 15 11:36:43 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: How many computers? In-Reply-To: <199807150106.AA10383@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13371884743.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [We built out own...] Oooh! Scan! Scan! ------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 11:41:40 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > trying to shutdown the relays. Well, considering they are still using the same sites (typically ibm.net, att.net and mci.com) I don't think they're paying much attention. > I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty > high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is > to include your email address as the return address in their forged > headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters. That's the beauty of the Spaminator: there is no e-mail address to associate this with. As far as they know, they are being called by some maniacal contraption from somewhere. IF they are able to figure out where the calls are coming from, IF they can get their service provider to look into it, and IF the service provider even has the capability to look into it, then what? I'm not terribly worried. Also, the beauty of a T-1 is that the rates are so damn cheap! :) > Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some manner of cheap and effective restitution. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:52:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <19980715165251.6951.qmail@hotmail.com> Clearly a very innovative company. It would be nice if all PC clone manufacturers added a little of their own abilities (well, perhaps not :) to their computers. > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/ > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:01:52 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:17 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <19980715170152.23930.qmail@hotmail.com> Speaking of TELEX, they once had the tan-colored 286 boxes, pretty small, with only a 3.5" fdd and a hardcard. They had a BNC connector emanating from the motherboard. Does anyone know what that was for? If it's a network card, does anyone know about drivers? >I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was >a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an >80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although >I don't recall the clock speed). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 14:13:17 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: MAD Computer Message-ID: <199807151659.SAA05354@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee > MAD = Magnetic Anomoly Detector > Or in other words it's used in Anti-Submarine Warfare. NoNo. MAD = Militaerischer Abschirmdienst (military counter inteligence) > (Sorry couldn't resist, yes I realize in this case this isn't what you meant.) dto :) H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:04:48 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715170448.7166.qmail@hotmail.com> Here in the US, we're spammed by the government, too. Though I'm under 18 and not a US citizen besides, I've gotten at least 30 requests for jury duty. BTW, what is the earliest incidence of e-mail spam? >After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is >almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country >like senseless US-Spamm :) > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jul 15 12:04:29 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write: << I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. >> hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything! david From van at wired.com Wed Jul 15 12:08:50 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam... You are fantastic. van >This is totally off-topic but this is the kind of thing you all can >appreciate, and it may even help some of you. > >For the last several months I have constantly been spammed by what can be >described as Son-of-Spamford. There's some spam e-mail software marketing >company in Los Angeles that sends out millions of these messages I guess. >They use web crawlers that steal e-mail addresses from web pages. They >then send out this spam letter with forged headers and false return >addresses. Very annoying. However, they do include a phone number and >address at the end of the spam. Interesting. I've included the message >at the end of this message so you can see if you've been spammed by these >assholes as well. > >I was so incensed at one point that I was almost going to buy a plane >ticket, fly down to L.A. with a box full of this spam e-mail printed out, >kick the door open to the office that these guys are in, find the >president of this "company", beat the shit out of him (or pimp-slap her), >then start shoving the printouts down this person's throat (yes, this is >rather violent :) > >But I soon figured out that the address was merely a private mailbox, and >the phone number rings into a voicemail box. Hmmm. Well, I have the >resources to find out where this number rings in to, possibly track down >the service provider, but then what? Then I realized, "Hey, I have a PBX, >a T-1 and a voicemail system with 16 ports...its time to have some fun." > >Thus sprang forth the Spaminator! The Spaminator is something I threw >together in about 10 minutes. What the Spaminator does is call the >offendor's number, wait for the voicemail to answer, dial a digit to cut >thru the outgoing message, then it starts singing simple tunes by playing >"spam" in different notes. I recorded a "spam" scale with my own voice. >Basically I sang "spam" starting from A and going to G. > >I created 10 different song files, with simple tunes such as "Mary Had a >Little Spam", "Twinkle Twinkle Little Spam", "Happy Spamday", "We Shall >Overcome (the spam)", "Jingle Spam", "Popeye the Sailor Spam", and a few >others. The Spaminator randomly selects three spam tunes to play for each >call. It plays the tunes, then hangs up and calls right back up again. >The Spaminator is currently running, filling up the spammers voicemail box >with spam tunes. Hopefully, it will fill up the voicemail box and they >won't be able to receive any other messages. Also, it will bring them >much anguish as they constantly try to delete these messages that don't >stop coming. > >The last I checked the Spaminator had played over 100 spam tunes into >their voicemail box. I am ecstatic. The Spaminator will continue to run >over night. Tomorrow morning I will check its progress (it keeps a log of >all tunes it plays so I know how many it did). > >If anyone is interested in utilizing the Spaminator for spaminating other >egregious spammers, let me know. I can easily program it to >simultaneously call out to other phone numbers and sing a symphony of spam >for them as well. > >I hope that my simple solution brings some manner of grief to these >idiots, whoever they are. Ideally it will give them more anguish than >their constant barrage of spam has brought me. I will not relent. My >next step is to try and track down the actual owners of this "business", >try to find out their other phone numbers (preferrably home numbers) and >unleash the Spaminator on those numbers as well. > >Thanks for letting me vent. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:16:46 -0700 >From: "***Bull*sEye)*" <33rq2w@att.net> >To: vcoffey@bu.edu > >Authenticated sender is <33rq2w@att.net> >Subject: ++BullsEye-*Targeting*Software*)+ >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! > >Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. >This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email >addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect >anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can >even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and >even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. >Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called >"spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting >website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website >to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of >fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting, the >spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to >send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to >get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!! > >A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is >no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo >to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted >market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the >rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide >you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the >location of a search engine on your browser then search for the >market you wish to reach...it's that easy! > >For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors >in New York all you would do is: > >1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in >the words doctor(s) and New York >2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the >http://... for instance it might look like >http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York >3) Press the START button > >THAT's IT!!! The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites >that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses >you want. > >The spider is passive too! That means you can let it run all >day or all night while you are working on important things or >just having fun on your computer. There is no need to keep a >constant watch on it, just feed it your target market and give >it praise when it delivers thousands of email addresses at >the end of the day! > >Features of the Bull's Eye Software: > >* Does TARGETED searches of websites collecting the email > addresses you want! >* Collects Email addresses by City, State, even specific > Countries >* Runs Automatically...simply enter the Starting information, > press The Start Button, and it does the rest >* Filters out duplicates >* Keeps track of URLs already visited >* Can run 24 hours per day, 7 days per week >* Fast and Easy List Management >* Also has built in filtering options...you can put in words > that it "Must" have while searching,...you can even put in > criteria that it "Must NOT Have"...giving you added flexibility >* Also imports email addresses from any kind of files (text > files, binary files, database files) >* List editor handles Multiple files to work on many lists > simultaneously >* Has a Black-Book feature... avoid sending emails to people > who do not want to receive it >* Built-in Mail program...send email directly on the internet > with just a click of your mouse >* Personalized Emails...if the email address has the user's > name when it is collected,..you can send Personalized emails!!! >* Sort by Location, Server, User Name, Contact Name >* Advanced Operations: > Email address lists export in many different formats > (HTML, Comma delimited, text file) > Advanced editing...Transfer, Copy, Addition, Delete, Crop, > Move to Top/Bottom > Operations between lists...Union, Subtraction, Comparison >* Program is Passive,...meaning you can run other programs at > the same time > >CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION 213-427-5820 >CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION 213-427-5820 > >ORDERING INFORMATION > >Customer Name >Company Name >Address >City >State Zip >Phone Fax >Email Address > >______ BULL'S EYE SOFTWARE $259.00 >Includes Software, Instructions, Technical Support > >______ Shipping & Handling (2-3 Day Fedex) $10.00 > (Fedex Overnite) $20.00 > >______ TOTAL > (CA Residents add applicable sales tax) > >*All orders are for Win 95 and Win NT > > *****CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED***** > MASTERCARD VISA AMEX > > PLEASE CALL 213-427-5820 to process your order > 9am-5pm Pacific Time > Checks or Money Orders send to: > WorldTouch Network Inc. >5670 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2170 Los Angeles, CA 90036 >Please note: Allow 5 business days for all checks to >clear before order is shipped. > > >*If you would like your email address removed, please >write us at the above address. ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:12:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715171251.8743.qmail@hotmail.com> A short refresher on human psychology. Most of the time, a clearly thinking person does not do anything they consider wrong. Your spammer thinks he is doing someone a favor, and your songs are disrespectful teasing of his honest attempt to make money. Lawsuits are more effective because if he continues to do it, he'll lose all the money he made, maybe even go to jail. That said, keep up the good work :) >> Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far. > >I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some >manner of cheap and effective restitution. > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 15 12:31:00 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C1@mail.simconv.com> Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will keep those spammers out of my mailbox. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Lawsuits are more effective because if he continues to do it, he'll lose all the money he made, maybe even go to jail. From wanderer at bos.nl Wed Jul 15 14:26:10 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Europe tour Message-ID: <35AD0252.778E@bos.nl> If they still have it, the is an old PDP in the Utrecht office of Digital. As far as I can remember (have seen it at least 10 years ago) it's blue, has 3 panels and the centerpanel has a round tube (a scope tube?). There were also a lot of switches on the panels. I believe that the University in Utrecht has a museum of some sort with various computers which they used over the years. You might like to go to the Waterloo square in Amsterdam, every Monday till Friday there is a flea market, and certainly there will be some vintage stuff for sale. Ed From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Jul 15 12:38:03 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 HDA Message-ID: <1998Jul15.133732.1767.119039@smtp.itgonline.com> Yes, dual head positioners on both sides plus four twenty pin connectors on both sides as well. David is correct as well, I have confirmed this HDA is from an IBM 4381 mainframe and uses a 3880 controller. Does this HDA have a lineage that goes back to the IBM Ramac? Any idea when this HDA was introduced? It certainly will make a great paper weight. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 7/15/98 11:07 AM At 10:59 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. Good Lord... unless I miss my guess, that's from a System/390 mainframe! Let me guess... dual head positioners on either side, yes? And big connectors with about a zillion pins? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jul15.110730.1767.51412; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:07:31 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA07163; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:18 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA43306 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:13 -0700 Received: from repop1.jps.net (repop1.jps.net [208.25.63.34]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA07964 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:12 -0700 Received: from seleth (sea-port157.jps.net [209.63.189.116]) by repop1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA07712 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980715080612.00e5b9e0@mail.wa.jps.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:06:12 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Bruce Lane To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA In-Reply-To: <1998Jul15.105724.1767.118953@smtp.itgonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: kyrrin@mail.wa.jps.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From franke at sbs.de Wed Jul 15 15:05:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <199807151751.TAA07749@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. > Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is > now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will > keep those spammers out of my mailbox. USD five ? HoHoHo. Stoping after request isnt exactly whats needed - The SPAM is already done. And getting a replay will make the address more valuable: now it is validates - the spammer now could sell the address to s.o. else for a single usage without any fear of beeing prosecuted. And you could still spamm the other people. And even if - Send out 5000 SPAMs and get 10 complains and pay USD 50 - thats USD 0.01 per 'customer contact' still _very_ cheap. I don't know if you ever looked into marketing, but companies are paying up to USD 20.00 for a singe use of ONE address. I don't think ths law will have any impact - very spaming friendly. Just done to get votes but avoide any change. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 12:57:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> < OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk < is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies I've had for over 8years. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 12:57:02 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery Message-ID: <199807151757.AA22179@world.std.com> < I'm not sure what that means, but I assume that the servo surface < contains a sort of coordinate system that the servo head reads and thus < guides the other heads. If that assumption is correct, why isn't it < possible to realign the thing with another servo platter? First it depends if the servo is embedded or dedicated platter or stepper (or other absolute positioner). For dedicated platter one head is assigned as the servo head and since they are all mechanically one assembly the rest just follow along. Now if a platter is changed it's data may be offset relative to the others. Same thing is true for replacing a head as the RELATIVE alignment between heads is disturbed. This case I believer the disk can be low level formatted and reused but existant data may be lost. If servo information does not exist (DeMIL'd drive) it's likely good for parts as servo tracks are hard to regenerate. If it's embedded servo per head each head as selected will follow the selected track servo signals and making relative head alignment less critical. If the servo is blown there is no way to regenerate easily. For cases of absolute positioners like older ST506/412/225/251 (and a swarm of others) drives getting alignment to cylinder 000 and beteeen heads would be critical for complete data recovery. If the drive is to be reformatted however a bulk erase and reformat will establish new tracks in some cases and make a mess in others. In the case of removable pack drives that is a totally different can of worms though simpler as they so have alignment procedures for field or depot use. Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 13:11:03 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: C64 parts Message-ID: <199807151813.OAA12343@charity.harvard.net> Okay, I'm gonna come right out and ask it... Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/4f1e9c97/attachment.bin From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 14:14:47 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Jul 15, 98 01:57:14 pm Message-ID: <9807151814.AA16463@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/fab0dc95/attachment.ksh From adept at Mcs.Net Wed Jul 15 13:24:41 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: C64 parts In-Reply-To: <199807151813.OAA12343@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: Paxtron and CMD come to mind. Paxtron has much better prices. The best source is a 64 or 128 from your local thrift. :) Cheers, Dan On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Okay, I'm gonna come right out and ask it... > > Anyone know a good source of C64/C128 parts in the US (the chips > mostly). I have a C128 and two C64s that are going to require > replacement chips and I have no idea where to get them. > > Thanks > Tony > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jul 15 13:38:10 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C3@mail.simconv.com> This is a case of the law being intended (originally) for quite different purposes. The story behind it is that the Nevada Legislature has an email system where the public can send comments to the lawmakers when the Legislature is in session (every other year for a few months). It seems last year someone flamed one of the senior politicians, he got pissed off, claimed it was racially motivated hate mail and tried to outlaw flaming. Someone (the state attorney general) pointed out to him his proposed law violated both free speech and right to petition for redress in the Constitution, but he wouldn't back down and withdraw his bill, so to keep it legal it was changed to an anti-spam law, and in theory flame mail can be legally defined as spam too. No one expects this law to ever be enforced. Jack Peacock -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke [mailto:franke@sbs.de] USD five ? I don't think ths law will have any impact - very spaming friendly. Just done to get votes but avoide any change. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 15 13:19:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Rare vs. Desirable In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980712202058.43071210@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980715131926.30777f74@intellistar.net> Tony, Do you have any more info on those clear 71s? I'd like to have one. I do have some clear ROM port covers for the 71. Joe At 06:40 PM 7/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> I've been told that HP always builds the first calculators of each new >> model out of clear plastic in order to check the fit of the internal > >I'd heard that they used to do this (clear HP71's have been spotted, for >example), but with the improvements in CAD systems they no longer do so. > >-tony > > From blindpete at stratos.net Wed Jul 15 03:36:12 1998 From: blindpete at stratos.net (blindpete@stratos.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Laser 128 Message-ID: <199807151901.MAA05661@mxu1.u.washington.edu> On 1998-07-13 classiccmp@u.washington.edu said: cl{Can anybody tell me anything about a machine called cl{Laser 128, I have the opportunity to get and understand cl{that it is very small with built in drive and may be somewhat cl{like an Apple II. cl{Thanx cl{------------------------------------------------------ cl{http://www.voicenet.com/~generic cl{gene@ehrich.com cl{Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 cl{------------------------------------------------------ Hi I used to have one a long time ago, the laser 128 is an Apple 2 C clone. It runs at about one and a third or some thing like that, MHZ. Has a 5.25 inch built in flopy 180 K I think and /ram drive in slot 3 drive 1 I think. It isn't a tam card or any thing like that that is just where the system has the ram drive. I had a later model laser 128 ex this one was cruzzing at 3.6 MHZ, also it had a conecter for an external 3.5 inch flopy. Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 13:06:45 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807151350.AA11232@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28045@cyber2.servtech.com> At 09:50 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >< Alright for some :-). Alas most of us don't have access to a clean room. >< Even if I was working at a place which had one, I can't believe they'd be >< too happy if I wandered in with an HDA and started stripping it. > >Majorly true. > >I worked in pharmaceuticals and though they didn't use super clean rooms >(class 10,000 worst case) the equipment was under a laminar airflow curtain >with a flow of 100 linear feet per minute and the air under there was class >100. The air flow was obvious ly of the the machine then into the room >where super clean was less important. This is the case in our cleanroom. I do in fact already work on stuff that has to be kept clean by taking it into the cleanroom. I work on it in a room area that is not in the 'critical' clean region of the group of rooms consisting of the whole cleanroom. Our cleanroom is built to class 10,000 but as Allison states, because of the laminar flow (figure an air flow pattern kept strictly parallel to the direction it is traveling, no turbulence) the cleanest areas in those critical areas are under that air curtain. If I took a 5.25" DEC drive in there to work on, it would be at a desk in front of a Balzers vacuum coating system which uses four LSI-11/23 (KDJ11-AA) processors for controlling various parts of itself (we do NOT load substrate for coating through the front door, we only clean and maintain the unit there, therefore it is one of the "dirtiest" areas of the cleanroom). The drive would feel it is amongst friends . > >< I would have thought looking for backscattered light would be more >< sensitive and easier to set up. Still not sensitive enough for a clean >< box, of course (in this form). > >The air flow and the sensing area cross section are important. Using a >light source like a laser is helpful in getting the backscatter brighter. > >This is the problem of how many Angeles can dance on the end of a pin. >You build a clean box and use a good HEPA filter. With 100-200cfm of >incomming clean air once the dust in the box has been blown out it will be >clean especially if gloved hands are the only thing inside. > >I'e heard a lot of "good luck", "it will not last" and "too dirty" from >those that haven't. I've done it, when RD53s and 54s were in desperately >short supply here and it does work without the clean box with some care. >Obvious tricks like wearing nylon gloves to avoid finger prints, a canister >of dry air to blow things off and keeping the unit covered when possible >all reduce risk. > > >Allison > I feel that when precautions and care are taken such as what Allison states above, one would have a quite functional cleanbox workstation. He/she could be fairly confident that intrusion of the platter area of a drive would yield a successful repair -if the source of a problem is indeed found(!). --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 12:40:24 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: European Tour In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980714191626.00e5b6f0@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28038@cyber2.servtech.com> At 22:25 14-07-98 -0500, you wrote: >I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each >in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops >along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage >portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in >Europe? > Doug, if you indeed do go to Munich to see the Deutches Museum I suggest you set aside at least a _full_ day to see only a couple of sections or several days to see most of the museum. Roller skates or rollerblades would be of great help to see more in less time I'm the type of person who studies a museum and have spent two to four hours in each of the few sections I've visited during the three different visits to the Deutches Museum. As Hans just said in a previous msg in this thread, the computer section is indeed about 12,000 square feet. Loved it! Seriously, I do recommend seeing the collections at Deutches Museum to anybody who may visit Munich. Something for everybody. Check out URL: http://www.deutsches-museum.de/dme01.htm if you're interested. Have fun in Europe, --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 14:01:09 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <199807142108.VAA24059@cyber2.servtech.com> References: <9807141923.AA30790@alph02.triumf.ca> <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151903.TAA28050@cyber2.servtech.com> At 17:06 14-07-98 -0400, Chris Fandt wrote: >At 12:23 14-07-98 -0800, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> In the MicroPDP-11/73 that I got in the great haul there's an Emulex quad >>> board which I want to identify. >>> >>> An identifying number on it is C3987-C. Two 50-pin headers are on the edge >>> pointing to the back. No cables attached. Stuff obviously has been swiped >>> from this system. >> >>Two 50-pin-headers strongly points towards this board being a >Pertec-formatted >>tape interface. (like the TC02/TC03). It could also be a communications >>multiplexer, like something from the CS series. >> >>> Anybody need to have more info to help ID this thing? >> >>There ought to be a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs >>that will give the part number and revision level. > >There is a big silver sticker on one of the 40-pin DIPs from which this >C3987-C came from. This number was listed as a sub-assy number, IIRC. There >is a longer number at the top of the sticker. I'll post it tomorrow. This is "tomorrow". More details from that silvery sticker: "TOP ASSY TC0210201-FSH" "S/N 93395" "Sub ASSY C3987 C" Hmmm, that Top Assy number has TC02 in it Tim. Also, when looking at the board from the component side up, edge fingers downward, there is a male 26-pin header at top left and a male 20-pin header at top right. In top center is a 4-position DIP switch (SW1) and a single LED (CR1). Just to left of center and downward there are SW2 and SW3 which are both 10-position DIP switches. "C3987" is on a small bar coded sticker under the left-hand 50-pin header. With that TC02 in the Top Assy number would that mean this is indeed a TC02 tape I/F as you figured? If so what tape drive model(s) should I be looking for? > >There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape looks >like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's a >third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with "UDC11" >stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon cable goes >that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and peek inside >tonight and report what I find on these questions. Very quick peeking done: The single 50-conductor ribbon cable coming out of the "UDC11" goes to three mass storage units: the 5.25" floppy, the tape drive (it's a Syquest) and a full hight 5.25" hard drive made by, [what was that now? Dang lousy memory...) I think "Vector". Never heard of 'em. Gotta pull the tape and HD units out of the box and write the model numbers down. Anyway, the UDC11 is made by Andromeda Systems. UDC probably means in this case 'Universal Drive (or Device) Controller' since all of the storage devices hang off of it. Okay, anybody have any data on this Andromeda UDC11 module? I used the TU58 reference mostly as an example to give the relative size of the tape cartridge. It does look like a DC100-size would fit in the Syquest tape drive like what I use in my HP9825. Anyway, the Syquest name ought to be recognizable to some people as to the tape type. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:07:03 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <199807151202.AA02196@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Megan wrote: > Don't forget to dial *67 or whatever the sequence is in your area to > disable the caller ID from being passed on to the recipient. If not, > they may have proof of your harrassing phone calls (and I'm sure such > slime would resort to it...) T-1 trunks don't pass along ANI, and certainly not Caller ID (Caller ID is technically different from ANI [automatic number identification] but the concept is the same). They'd have to really know what they were doing first of all, and second of all they'd have to know the right people to be able to trace the call. Even then, there's not much they can do without admitting that they are breaking several laws themselves for their egregious spamming practices. I only hope that they reveal themselves so I can really do some damage. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Jul 15 14:11:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Anyone out there have... Message-ID: <199807151910.PAA18285@charity.harvard.net> A deceased C128 that would be willing to give up it's keyboard? I need a replacement for the C128 I'm refurbing. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1757 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/88f365f6/attachment.bin From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 14:13:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <19980715191356.22199.qmail@hotmail.com> First of all, I think that the latest Norton Utilities are soooo bloated, they possibly won't even run on a damaged computer. High-res pictures of your computer components are the latest thing you need when you can't find a vital data file. For example, what good is it to have a data recovery program you can't run if you just formatted your hard drive? That said, I think NU is a good tool, but Spinrite is still better than NDD. >First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools >should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. > >I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies >I've had for over 8years. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:22:02 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <004301bdaffb$9b29c560$a8f449cc@monkey.wavefront.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Poesie wrote: > Speaking of, does *67 cost? I've been up to the same pranks as Sam, w/ a > local "mass marketer." I vaguely recalled it being a feature that cost > nothing, but I never was sure. Sorry to keep this thread going, as humourous > as it is :) Nope. *67 is a free "service" (more like a right). I have caller ID blocking by default. But then again, this wasn't done from my home (I may be stupid but I'm not crazy, or is that vice versa? :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/05/98] From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 14:21:30 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module In-Reply-To: <199807150113.AA16908@world.std.com> References: <199807131913.TAA15210@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: <199807151924.TAA28851@cyber2.servtech.com> At 21:13 14-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > >>There is a tape drive and 5.25" hard drive in the MicroPDP. The tape >>looks like it takes a TU58-size tape (could it be a TU58?) Also, there's >>a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with >>"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon >>cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and >>peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions. > >The BA23 was originally marketed with an 5.25" RD series drive and an >RX50 dual 5.25" floppy drive. Later, for the MicroVAX/VaxStationI/II/IIRC >system, the RX50 was replaced by a TK50. There was also a configuration >with an RX33 instead of either the RX50 or TK50. My uPDP has an RX50 and an as yet undetermined RD which I have to take out to see model designation. No time yet, but it is a "Vector" brand. Ever hear of this company? Confirm yes or no for me that an RX33 is a 3.5" floppy? > >A TU58 type tape drive sounds very strange for the BA23... maybe it >was packaged by someone else? (Would the single TU58 tape drive of >a Vax-11/730 be adaptable to the skids of a BA23 drive bay?) Well, it actually is not a TU58 as there are TU58's on both VAXen sitting in my garage. I was not sure yet if there were more than one "style" of case for a TU58. I mentioned TU58 anyway to try to give an idea to folks what size tape cartidge fits. Bad idea, Chris, bad idea. Go sit in the corner.... Anyway, the tape drive is a Syquest of some sort. Again, I have to remove the tape drive to determine the model number. No cartidge tapes of any sort were with any of the VAX or uPDP stuff; only three TK50 CompacTapes (sp.?) were with my uVAXII. So much stuff to go through and resolve questions, so little time available.... Sigh. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 14:31:33 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4C1@mail.simconv.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > Here in Nevada a new anti-spam law just went into efect on July 1. > Unsolicited commercial email, if sent after you request it to stop, is > now a $5 (five dollars, that was not a typo) fine. I'm sure that will > keep those spammers out of my mailbox. > Jack Peacock Well, it * might * discourage those who reside in Nevada, but it is not likely to even furrow the brow of those elsewhere! - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Jul 15 14:41:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9807151542.AA24719@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Be careful; *67 doesn't stop "caller ID" if the number being called > is a 1-800 number. (Actually, it's not "caller ID" if it's a 1-800 > call, it's something quite different. It's more akin to the recipient > of a collect call getting to know the number the call was made from.) From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 14:22:40 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Cleanroom technology Was: hard drive data recovery In-Reply-To: <199807151617.QAA22618@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > At 21:13 14-07-98 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > >**** snip **** > > > >> A HEPA filter is: High Efficiancy Particulate Air filter. A HEPA filter is > >> built so that 9.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger are removed from the > > > >**** and again **** > > > >Did you, perhaps, slip a decimal point? > > > OOOPS!! No, Don, I just slipped a gear! I was tired and my hunt-and-peck > typing gets more lousy than normal and my visual spell check fails. > > Sorry, it's of course 99.97% No problem, Chris, I would have settled for 99.7% :) - don From yowza at yowza.com Wed Jul 15 15:02:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use > > unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and > > trying to shutdown the relays. > > Well, considering they are still using the same sites (typically ibm.net, > att.net and mci.com) I don't think they're paying much attention. Nonsense. Pay no attention to the forged headers. Look at the IP address of the site that connected to your mail server (it should be in the real headers in a "received from" line). It'll be some ISP in Norway or someplace that probably has no idea they're being used as a gateway for spam. > I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some > manner of cheap and effective restitution. Well, it'll annoy their answering service at least. -- Doug From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Jul 15 15:01:16 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Q-bus boards I need ID of... Message-ID: <199807152003.UAA00219@cyber2.servtech.com> There are actually three boards I need to ID, the third is possibly a tape controller. Here's the rundown: #1 A Q-bus dual width board made by DTC. Has a 50-pin header next to a single ejector handle. All TTL chips, no LSI or CMOS devices. Two 8-section DIP switches on board. Only markings are a FAB, ASSY, REV and S/N numbers. The ASSY number is 007-00002. Could this be a Q-bus SCSI board (I hope, I hope, I hope)? But there's no CPU or ASIC, etc. onboard to handle DMA, SCSI device protocoll, etc. :( An appropriate driver in conjunction with the OS would have to do this. #2 A Q-bus quad width board of unknown manufacture. Two 50-pin headers at handle-edge of board. A marking on the component side says it's a "Q BUS/LEXID INT." with a number 77D609871P1 under it. A number stamped on the backside is "GE77D609871G1" with "SER NO- 44" under it. Those part numbers look like old GE part numbers. Did General Electric make any equipment for the DEC world? #3 This is what I feel is an Archive tape controller. It has "ARCHIVE CORP. Copyright 1983" silk screened onto the component side. No other numbers on the silk screen, dang it. It is 5.5" x 7.75" with a 50-pin edge connector (marked "J1") on one 5.5" end and a 50-pin header (marked "J3") at the other end. "J2" is a 4-pin recepticle which is the same as the power connector on a 5.25" floppy or hard drive and is on the edge connector-end of the board. The EPROM label has 80182-010 on it. Has an 8031 microcontroller chip, an 8155 and an Archive LCC ASIC plus a bunch of TTL and one small CMOS RAM chip (Mitsubishi M5M2167P-70). Other numbers found on the board seem to be component part numbers however there is a hand-written number on the solder side which is 80158-013/A. Could this be an important identifying number? I want to try to identify these boards to see if theyt are useable in the systems I'm keeping, especially item #1. Thanks for the help. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Jul 15 15:14:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard Message-ID: <199807152014.AA27002@world.std.com> < A more "classic"-related question related to some faded brain < cell connections in my head: Wasn't there once a CP/M version of < the Norton utilities, long before the IBM PC was even a glimmer < in its parent's eyes? There were several for CP/M, apple][ and trs80. Most were bad sector scanners and disk editors. Very useful though as TRS80 and most cp/m crates with external drive would write garbage to any externally powered disks if the system was powered off with media in the drive. Alison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 15:15:26 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal Message-ID: <19980715201528.18592.qmail@hotmail.com> Hey! A great way to bring this thread back on topic! How do those electronic switches work, and what is the approximate network topology of the system? Is there a reference guide to it somewhere? I'd love to take a look. >>From about the 1970s and on (somewhere around there...about the time the >first electronic switching systems start appearing) ***snip*** As far as I know, a telephone rings because when it's on hook, any current on the phone line is connected to the ringer. When someone is trying to connect, the company sends a periodic AC signal to the phone. If the caller ID data signal was sent first, it would cause jittering in mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my theory. >I don't know the specific reasons that are behind sending the data burst >after the first ring. It may have a lot to do with the caller ID boxes >needing some sort of indicator to let them know a call was coming and they >should start monitoring for the carrier. I think the caller ID boxes >could have easily been designed to continually monitor the line for a >carrier and then capture the data that came before the first ring. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 07/05/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 16:16:16 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: Help ID Emulex quad module(here's more info...) In-Reply-To: <199807151903.TAA28050@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Jul 15, 98 03:01:09 pm Message-ID: <9807152016.AA20939@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/09ca067d/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 15:19:47 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: just wondering In-Reply-To: <199807151337.JAA08933@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: **** snip **** > I may be able to help... I worked for a company in the early '80's, Bruce > and James. They wrote a program for the PC called WordVision, intended > to be the first of what we now call an office suite. It required 96K > of RAM, a floppy disk and DOS 1.0 or higher. The install disk was, IIRC, > DOS 1.0. The only hitch is that it's copy protected. You had to boot the > original floppy and run an installation program to make slave disks. You > could then copy the application from the slave disks to other diskettes > or a hard drive. If only the program didn't use a cycle-counting key repeat > loop, it'd still work on newer hardware. > > If teledisk or some such can package up the disk image, I can see about > making it available for such a worthy project. I wanted to dig through the > disk anyway, to look for the oft-discussed Digital Research strings. TeleDisk should be able to handle it without problem. > It's not a full DOS 1.0 kit, but it is the bootsector, IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS. > Let me know if you are interested. If you do make up a disk image, I would appreciate having access to a copy of it. Thanks! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 15 15:27:59 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: <9807151814.AA16463@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > A more "classic"-related question related to some faded brain > cell connections in my head: Wasn't there once a CP/M version of > the Norton utilities, long before the IBM PC was even a glimmer > in its parent's eyes? I cannot recall a suite of tools like Norton, Tim. But there were assuredly individual tools like FINDBAD to scan drives for bad blocks, EDFILE the binary file editor, and DU (Disk Utility) which could examine and change any byte on a disk - boot sector included. - don From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Jul 15 16:56:30 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 15, 98 01:27:59 pm Message-ID: <9807152056.AA14256@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980715/8271eba6/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Jul 15 16:01:31 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:18 2005 Subject: taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard References: <199807151757.AA22387@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35AD18AA.1D4F52C4@bbtel.com> Norton Utilities, since way back in version 2 or 3 has been a lifesaver for me, every version. I religiously purchase it and upgrades, but I usually hanf back and see if any problems arise from initial use - none so far and that's impressive. Allison J Parent wrote: > < OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk > < is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone > > First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools > should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. > > I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies > I've had for over 8years. > > Allison -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/